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This episode is brought to you by Thorne and I have some incredible news for any of you

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To learn more about Thorn, go to episode 323 of the Behind the Shield Podcast with Joel

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Titoro and Wes Barnett.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield Podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

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the show former firefighter, paramedic, police officer and winner of the Naked and Afraid

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show Gwen Grimes.

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Now in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from the outdoor living that forged

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her resilience as a child, her journey into EMS, the transition into law enforcement,

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the unique challenges for first responders in the wilderness setting, her career ending

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injury, the formation of her own wilderness retreat and so much more.

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Before we get to this incredibly powerful and important conversation, as I always say,

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please just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the

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show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of almost a thousand episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

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I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Gwen Grimes.

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Enjoy.

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Well Gwen, I want to start by saying thank you so, so much for taking the time and coming

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on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Not a problem.

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Happy to be here.

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Thank you for inviting me.

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So where on planet earth are we finding you today?

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We are 120 miles south of the Arctic Circle in Alaska in a remote location, which is our

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homestead on the Yukon River.

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Beautiful.

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I think you have to be my most remote interview.

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I've had a wildland firefighter that did it from his van.

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I know that was pretty remote as well, but I think you'd be even him.

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That's awesome.

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Well I would love to start the very beginning of your timeline.

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So tell me where you were born and tell me a little about your family dynamic, what your

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parents did, how many siblings.

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So I was born in Oregon and my dad was a military then transferred over to deputy sheriff.

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And when I was a teenager, he got a job working up in Alaska and brought our family up.

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And so we've been in Alaska since the late 80s and kind of just started off our Alaska

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career up here.

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And that was early beginnings.

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I mean, pretty standard.

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Dad was a cop, mom was a homemaker.

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When you said he was military, was he Vietnam era?

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He was, but he didn't go to Vietnam.

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He ended up going to Germany.

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And yeah, he got out in 73, 72 or 73, something like that.

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And what about his career?

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When you asked him when you were wearing uniform, what were some of the, you know, what we would

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call career calls that he ran?

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Oh, geez.

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I mean, so where we lived out in Oregon, also remote, he was a deputy sheriff down there.

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And so I actually got to do a lot of ride alongs with him when I was a child because

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of the remoteness.

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So he'd come pick me up and I'd be out rolling with him and, you know, driving around on

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patrol, going on calls, sitting tight up in the passenger seat, watching what was going

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on.

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And I got a taste of law enforcement very early on.

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Yeah, I was just a tight knit little department and kind of a big family.

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Everybody just kind of hung out together.

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And probably one of the scariest incidents with him being a cop in Oregon when I was

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very young, I had two of my siblings were born at that time.

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My brother was like two.

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My sister was four and I was five.

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And he actually had a guy that got pissed off at him, decided he wanted to take him

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out.

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And he was at work and my mom was home with us kids.

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And the guy came to the door pounding on the door and was screaming at my mom about her

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turning them in for CPS and he demanded to come in and take her kids and swear in a Bible

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that she didn't turn them in, that kind of thing.

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And my mom looked at me and said, take your siblings into the closet, keep them quiet,

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do not come out.

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So I did.

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And during that time, while we were in the closet, I guess he ran up into our barn overlooking

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our animals and the house and was up there in a sniper position to take my dad out when

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he came home.

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And so my memory of that being so young was once everything was clear, we came out and

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all these cops were in the house, like everywhere, all over the property.

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They'd actually got the SWAT team out there, surrounded them, took them out.

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And then that was kind of my introduction into what law enforcement was capable of doing,

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how they could protect people.

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I thought that was pretty cool.

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I really loved that aspect of it.

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Didn't really scare me.

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It was intriguing and interesting to me.

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So that was neat, but scary at the same time being so young.

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What about the idiosyncrasies of law enforcement in such a vast rural area?

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What are some of the elements that inner city people, for example, probably don't even think

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about?

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Oh, there's no backup.

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So when I was a cop, I worked up on the North Slope Borough for the first decade of my career.

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And out there, you work villages of between 200 and 1,000 people, depending on which village

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you're in.

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And you're out there by yourself.

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You do a two-week-on, two-week-off rotation, and you're it.

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There's no backup.

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Nobody's coming to your aid.

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You don't even have radios.

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You get your phone call at the station from dispatch, which is hundreds of miles away

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up in Barrow.

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And they dispatch you to the call.

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And then you roll out on it by yourself.

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And you figure it out.

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And you better know what you're doing.

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Because if you got to make an arrest, you got to break up a fight, any of that kind

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of stuff, nobody's coming to bail you out.

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That's it.

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You're it.

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So do what you got to do.

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So that was a very interesting decade of my career, being a solo officer out in those

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villages.

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When we go back to York and the school age, what were you playing as far as sports?

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I played as much as I could.

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I love sports.

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I love playing football.

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So that was our grade school, roused about stuff on the playground.

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But for like organized sports, I played softball, basketball, baseball.

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I was actually when I got into middle school, they didn't have a softball team for girls

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yet.

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And so me and three other girls, we really wanted to play ball.

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And we petitioned the school.

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We were the first female baseball players allowed on a boys team.

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And so we ended up being able to go travel with the boys team and go play play baseball

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for the first two years.

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And then they got a softball team for us together.

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And we started doing school softball from that point out.

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Were you playing in some moral teams or were you the only coed?

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We were the only coed in in our area because we had to petition the school board to be

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able to be allowed to play.

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So we were kind of groundbreaking females at the time into an all boys sport and no

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other teams that we played had girls on them.

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And how were you received?

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I mean, some people would assume that immediately there was all this hazing and bullying.

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But I mean, you know, was it that way or was it actually the opposite?

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We're all Tomboys.

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All of our friends were guys.

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So we all we all just played out together.

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There was no no problems.

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Excellent.

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What about career aspirations?

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You're doing these ride alongs with your dad, you know, then you have this horrendous, you

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know, up close and personal experience with crime on your own property.

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Were you thinking about law enforcement when you were in the school age?

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Was there another career that came in first?

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I was I really wanted to be a cop.

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That was like my big thing.

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I wanted to be a police officer so badly.

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And then my dad kept saying, no, no, no, no, you do not want to do this as a career.

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This is no, I don't want my daughter being a cop that do something else type thing.

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I was very bullheaded and I wanted to do my own thing.

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And so my ever all of my choices and things that I was doing was gearing me up to be a

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cop.

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And then my house 14, I think, and we were driving over to Boise, Idaho for Christmas.

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My mom was driving and she fell asleep at the wheels Christmas at wintertime.

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And there was a lot of snow on the ground.

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And all I remember was this station wagon that we're all in.

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None of us were buckled in.

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Obviously it was it was the early 80s.

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And she flipped the car.

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It went into a burrow ditch and the car flipped over, hit the culvert, flipped the car.

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All of us went airborne.

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We landed on the top of the roof, skid to a stop, super quiet.

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And I could hear my twin sisters in the back.

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They were babies.

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Basically they were very little.

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And then my my two other siblings back there.

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I remember crawling out of the car and my mom was unconscious in the front seat.

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And my dad was like, when climb behind here, hold your mom's neck, do not let it move.

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And then so I did.

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I climbed in there and held her neck.

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Took an hour for EMS to show up on scene.

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When they did, they put on a kid extricated her.

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And I was fascinated with what they were doing, like all the jaws of life, all the all the

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equipment, everything.

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And I asked, can I ride in the back on the way to the hospital?

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And they're like, yeah, that'd be great.

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Here, keep holding your mom's head.

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So it was weird because I was concerned about my mom.

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She was definitely hurt.

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I mean, there was there's a lot of damage there, but I wasn't scared.

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I was really fascinated with the medics and how they were saving my mom basically and

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all the stuff that they were doing.

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And it just fascinated me to the point that it changed my career path.

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And I actually ended up going to school for paramedicine and minored in search and rescue,

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became a national registered paramedic firefighter.

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One did that for.

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Oh, geez, for almost 15 years before I decided to switch over to my initial love of law enforcement,

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which I did in I think I was 30, 32 when I switched over to law enforcement.

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So from 18 to 31, 32, I was a firefighter paramedic and then switched over to law enforcement

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to finish out my career.

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So I've had almost 29 years of emergency services service under my belt.

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So what about the firefighter paramedic role?

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Again, what was the kind of population that you were serving and what were some of the

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career calls when you were in that uniform?

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Well, I did my internship down in Atlanta, Georgia with Grady Memorial Hospital.

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So I saw some inner city stuff there as for two summers while we did those internships.

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Also got my certification, my husband at the time, and I moved to where we go.

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We went to back to back up to Alaska.

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I got hired on at the department, the police department working corrections at the jail

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there.

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I wasn't using my paramedic certification at the time.

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And I really wanted to use my paramedic certification, but I was working in corrections.

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My husband hated the Arctic, hated it.

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We had two young sons at the time.

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And he was like, I'm taking the boys down to my mom's and I'm going to go see if I

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can find us jobs.

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I was like, all right.

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I said, here's the deal.

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I said, I got a good job up here working for the police department.

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So if you can find jobs anywhere in the world, like both of us for both of us as medics,

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I'll leave Alaska for you and the boys to go do that.

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So he was out for like three months scouring the country and he found two paramedic jobs

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for us in truth or consequences, New Mexico.

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It's the polar opposite, right?

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He's like, pack your bags.

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We're going to New Mexico.

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I'm like, you've got to be kidding me.

238
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So I went from, it was like 20 degrees in Alaska to 120 degrees in New Mexico in a matter

239
00:16:05,660 --> 00:16:11,880
of like a week and started off my paramedic career there in the county ambulance.

240
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:20,480
And I got stories that could last for days with all the medic stuff that I've done and

241
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:26,520
the fire calls, law enforcement, just so many.

242
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:31,560
I mean, lifetime of memories, good and bad.

243
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:38,280
When I asked the military people about combat, it's usually, not as we all can't stand being

244
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,520
asked, not that what's the worst thing you've seen, but what would be some of the most critical

245
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:43,520
calls that you ran?

246
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,520
And then also those field goal calls that maybe weren't even emergent, but you just

247
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,800
did, you made someone's life better in a different way.

248
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,560
Well, I've got a bunch of those too.

249
00:16:53,560 --> 00:17:01,560
I guess the one, the career changer for me was one of the calls that I went on was a

250
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:09,720
child abuse case where the father had dipped his one-year-old in scalding water up to its

251
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:14,000
chest and the baby died.

252
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:23,320
But it made me very angry that he was able to do that with almost no consequence.

253
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The system seemed broken.

254
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,640
There was a lot of people getting away with some really bad stuff.

255
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:30,640
And I was like, you know what?

256
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:31,880
I've always wanted to be a cop.

257
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:37,680
I want to go make a difference, see if I can go on the blue side and see if I can make

258
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:38,680
a difference.

259
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,880
I felt like my paramedic and fire career were coming to an end.

260
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:43,880
I was getting kind of burnt out.

261
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:44,880
I was salty.

262
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,880
I was a salty old paramedic.

263
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,040
I'd been there, done that.

264
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,520
I need something to change.

265
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:57,600
So I went ahead and applied and got hired on with the police department and rolled out

266
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from there.

267
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:01,760
That was my changer though.

268
00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,200
That was my, let's see if I can make a difference elsewhere.

269
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:12,480
I felt like I'd done everything I needed to do or could do as a medic and a firefighter.

270
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,780
Probably one of the worst calls, I mean, obviously the worst calls as a firefighter is going

271
00:18:16,780 --> 00:18:20,240
into buildings and finding them burning, burn up bodies.

272
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,960
Those are always not fun to stumble upon.

273
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:31,960
I was in a back draft one time that almost took me and my front partner out.

274
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:36,960
Actually separated our masks on our faces to within a quarter inch of complete failure

275
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:42,020
where we would have, when we walked out of the building, well, walk, we were like scrambling

276
00:18:42,020 --> 00:18:45,960
out of the building because the fire drafted over the top of us.

277
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:46,960
We were both on fire.

278
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,520
Our turnouts were on fire and they had to put us out.

279
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,160
So that was eyeopening as well.

280
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,840
That was a close call.

281
00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:01,800
Probably one of my favorite stories that I tell often to people is how law enforcement

282
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,960
can make positive impacts in people's lives.

283
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:11,280
When I was working up on the slope, before you go out into the villages, you have to

284
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:17,280
do two years in Barrow, which is now Utpiaugvik.

285
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,200
It's furthest north city in North America that you can live in.

286
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:26,880
It had a population of 5,000 gravel roads.

287
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,480
There was usually two officers on duty.

288
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,920
You just kind of had to prove yourself out there and then they'd spark you out to one

289
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:33,920
of the villages.

290
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:41,080
While I was doing my proving grounds out there, we had a young man that was just turned 18

291
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,480
or 19, very young, decided to get drunk, run around town.

292
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,200
He was firing a shotgun off, shooting shotgun around town.

293
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:54,760
Me and my partner that night, Greg, we got the call.

294
00:19:54,760 --> 00:20:01,800
We scrambled in our patrol trucks over to go intercept him.

295
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:12,840
While we were coming around a corner, I see him go up onto a family's porch up in that

296
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:13,840
far north.

297
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,240
The houses are up on stilts.

298
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,280
They're about three feet off the ground for permafrost reasons.

299
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,360
They have these porches that go up.

300
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:28,200
On top of that porch is basically a picture window that's looking into the entire house.

301
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:36,600
I slid my patrol car to a stop, hopped out of my truck to approach this young man holding

302
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,600
a shotgun, getting ready to enter this house.

303
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:47,280
I could see the family sitting at the table behind him in the picture window.

304
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,280
Absolutely terrible.

305
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,440
You don't want to shoot, right?

306
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,840
Because you've got all these innocents right behind you.

307
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:54,840
You're going to catch 22.

308
00:20:54,840 --> 00:21:01,440
I'm coming up, I have my handgun out, and I'm walking up to approach him.

309
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,400
I'm trying to talk him down.

310
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,120
Drop the gun, drop the gun.

311
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:08,940
He starts swinging the shotgun around at me.

312
00:21:08,940 --> 00:21:14,160
As all cops know, once they start swinging that around, it's a lethal threat.

313
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,480
He can kill you at that point.

314
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,440
It's a shotgun, and I'm fairly close.

315
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,720
I'm maybe 20 feet away from him.

316
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,760
Well, everything slowed down.

317
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:26,600
Time slowed down.

318
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:33,840
I watched his hands come off the firing mechanism, slowly start peeling away as he was turning

319
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:34,840
to throw the gun.

320
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:39,200
I watched his hands slowly open, and the shotgun scattered across.

321
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,360
I went and I got him.

322
00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:45,400
Arrested him for disorderly conduct, misconduct involving weapons, blah, blah, blah.

323
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,520
I didn't think anything of it.

324
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,000
Status quo, regular call, get in there.

325
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,000
Could I have shot him?

326
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,000
Yes.

327
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,360
Was it a good shoot situation?

328
00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:55,360
No.

329
00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:58,680
I didn't think twice about it.

330
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,280
Years later, many years later, I was in Prudhoe Bay.

331
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:07,240
I was sitting down at a... They have places because that's the oil field over there.

332
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,320
They have places that you can go in and sit down to eat.

333
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:15,400
Cops always sit alone at the tables, so you're there by yourself, sitting at the table eating.

334
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:22,360
This young kid, he's like 25, 26, comes over and he sits down at my table.

335
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:26,520
I'm like, okay, this is weird.

336
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,360
He says, can I sit here with you?

337
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:30,360
I'm like, sure.

338
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:31,360
That'd be great.

339
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:37,160
He sits down and my spidey senses are like, what is going on?

340
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:44,320
Something's not right because nobody ever comes to sit down at a cop's table.

341
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,120
I'm looking at him, kind of looking him up and down.

342
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:47,840
He goes, you don't remember me, do you?

343
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:48,840
I'm like, I'm sorry.

344
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,000
Can you jog my memory?

345
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:57,840
He goes, I'm the kid with the shotgun on the porch that you could have killed that night.

346
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,080
I was like, and then all of a sudden I'm like, uh-oh, here we go.

347
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,840
I put you in jail.

348
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:04,840
He's going to fight, right?

349
00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,640
I'm thinking, here we go.

350
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:13,360
But no, he goes, I needed to sit down and have a meal with you and I wanted to thank

351
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:14,360
you.

352
00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:15,360
I'm like, for what?

353
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:20,160
He goes, that was one of the eye-opening nights of my life.

354
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:25,960
I realized you could have taken me out that night and by all rights, you should have because

355
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,840
I was hell-bent on killing somebody that night.

356
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:35,360
You stopped me and I was able to get put into jail, realized my choices in life were not

357
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:40,120
the best and now, he goes, I have a wife, I have two kids, I have a really good job

358
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:41,400
on the slope, I'm making money.

359
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,400
I just bought a house.

360
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:49,160
He goes, you changed my life and I'm like, this turned out way better than I thought.

361
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,600
So totally unexpected, feel-good story.

362
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,200
Like, hey, I didn't have to kill that kid.

363
00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:00,840
He learned his lesson, turned his life around, productive member of society, blah, blah,

364
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:01,840
blah.

365
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:07,120
So yeah, there's good and bad in all aspects of civil service.

366
00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:12,720
You do, you see the good and the bad and you can make differences in people's lives.

367
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:17,120
It's interesting when you said you got burnt out by the fire on EMS side because if you

368
00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:22,240
think about it, what I did for my whole career was reactive.

369
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,360
People are already having their worst day when they call police and fire, excuse me,

370
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:27,000
and fire an EMS.

371
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,920
Something has gone terribly wrong, but the law enforcement side, of course, you've got

372
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,440
that reactive element, which is sometimes, but you've also got almost like a lifeguard,

373
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:39,640
the proactive element, the trying to stop things before they go bad, whether it's a

374
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:45,160
site call, whether it's simply a traffic stop before someone slides off a bridge because

375
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:46,540
they're going too fast.

376
00:24:46,540 --> 00:24:48,000
So it's interesting the contrast.

377
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,960
I never thought of it that way before, but there is a lot more of a proactive element

378
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,600
in the law enforcement side than there is an EMS and fire.

379
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:56,600
Absolutely.

380
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,240
I agree with that 100%.

381
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,120
It's vastly different fields.

382
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:06,120
We are talking about being a law enforcement officer on your own.

383
00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:09,260
Obviously, we'll get into some of the other stuff you've done later as well.

384
00:25:09,260 --> 00:25:14,800
When you reflect to where you grew up and the type of upbringing that you had, what

385
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,760
were the elements you think that contributed to this physical and mental toughness that

386
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:19,760
you developed?

387
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,760
You know how people say they're born to do things?

388
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:26,680
I was born to be a cop.

389
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,720
I was born for it.

390
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:29,800
It's been in my blood.

391
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,280
It's been in my bloodlines.

392
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,800
My family, I was like third generation law enforcement.

393
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,880
It was, I don't know, it just felt right.

394
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:47,480
It felt like something I had to do, like a calling almost.

395
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,560
I think some people are just built that way.

396
00:25:51,560 --> 00:26:01,040
You think different, you react in stressful situations differently than most humans do.

397
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,440
Because of that, you can function in chaos.

398
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:06,440
What about the actual environment?

399
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:12,520
I don't know if you've seen on any of your interactions with the internet and social

400
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:18,800
media or anything, but recently there has been this pursuit of discomfort because a

401
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:23,480
lot of us in urban and suburban arenas, it's so comfortable.

402
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,000
Now I'm sitting in a house, I've got air conditioning.

403
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,880
I'm in Florida, so it's brutal outside, but inside it's nice.

404
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,240
When I think about the farm that I grew up in England, I was out in the cold and the

405
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:40,880
rain and the wet and there was an element of fostering resilience through just simply

406
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,720
not having the creature comforts that we have today.

407
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:50,440
What was your Oregon and Alaskan upbringing like?

408
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:57,920
If you contrast it to a city, what elements of that do you think helped foster the strength?

409
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,800
I didn't know anything about city life growing up at all.

410
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:07,300
I was raised in the mountains, transported to Alaska, which we went to Point Hope, which

411
00:27:07,300 --> 00:27:18,880
is a village of a thousand people on the Chupchi Sea and extreme environment.

412
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:30,640
Going from the mountains of Oregon to the extreme Arctic, very hard living, hard life.

413
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:38,160
You're not how to battle the elements, how to keep your houses warm.

414
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,480
When we were in Oregon, cops didn't make much money.

415
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,240
We were fairly poor growing up.

416
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,160
We hunted for our food.

417
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:49,880
We had a garden.

418
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,760
We had animals.

419
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,040
We went and milked our cows.

420
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,200
We did all that kind of stuff.

421
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,240
We chopped firewood.

422
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:04,000
I was eight years old when I was out splitting wood in the woodshed and I put an axe through

423
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,280
my knee.

424
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:12,040
My mom went up to the back door to tell her because it felt like there was ants running

425
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:13,040
down my leg.

426
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,040
I looked down and there was blood spurting out.

427
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,000
I went up and I knocked on the back door.

428
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,400
My mom opened it and she's like, oh my gosh, what did you do?

429
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,100
I think I cut myself.

430
00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:30,680
She grabbed a tourniquet and put it on my leg, threw me and the kids in the station

431
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:40,080
wagon and it took us 45 minutes to drive down that mountain to the nearest veterinary clinic

432
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:49,160
and put me up on the vet table and the animal doc stitched my knee up and said, she's good

433
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,800
enough now, get her to the hospital.

434
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:58,640
We had another 45 minute drive to the hospital from there.

435
00:28:58,640 --> 00:28:59,640
We were remote.

436
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:05,360
It took us a long, you learn how to survive out there and now I live remote now.

437
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,160
My whole life has been remote.

438
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:15,400
When I moved up to Alaska, I had to come out to get my wisdom teeth extracted and I'd never

439
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,000
been to a big city before.

440
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:25,840
I was 18 and they put me on a bush plane, flew me out to Anchorage.

441
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:33,240
I remember I stand at one of my dad's friend's places and he was like, do you need to go

442
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,040
to the grocery store to get anything?

443
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,040
I'm like, I don't know.

444
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,680
I've never really been to a big grocery store before.

445
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,760
He goes, all right, well, let's take you in.

446
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:46,480
So I'd seen Star Wars and stuff as a kid.

447
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:52,640
I walked up to this big supermarket, these airlock doors did the open.

448
00:29:52,640 --> 00:30:00,000
I felt like I was in the future because I'd never seen anything like that before.

449
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:05,160
Then I walked into the store and there's this mist that's coming down on the vegetables

450
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,200
and I felt like I was in a totally different world and all the traffic and all the noise

451
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,320
and it was very unsettling.

452
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,080
I didn't quite know what to think of it.

453
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:22,240
Over the years, I'm definitely not a city person by any means, but I've been to some

454
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:30,080
very, very big cities over my life and it's such a vast difference.

455
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:37,760
That's one of the reasons that we, after my husband and I retired, opened up our homestead

456
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:44,760
up in Alaska to people from the big cities to come do outdoor activities, to get them

457
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:50,320
out of the cities into the peacefulness and the remoteness of Alaska, to give them a

458
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:55,080
different outlook than what all of that hustle and bustle looks like.

459
00:30:55,080 --> 00:31:00,000
What is the sense of community like in the small towns and villages that you've spent

460
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,480
most of your time in?

461
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:03,480
Super tight.

462
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,480
Super, super tight.

463
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:18,440
So, in point hope, my sister and I, we were the... Let's see, it was my sister, my brother,

464
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:24,800
me were all in teenage years.

465
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:34,760
My brother was, I think he was 10 or 11 and then my younger sisters were in grade school.

466
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,720
We had gotten invited to go out, my sister and I had gotten invited to go out on a whale

467
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:44,400
hunt with the whaling crew for their village whale.

468
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,800
Point hope could get two or three that year.

469
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:56,760
They hunt these whales out of umiacs, which are walrus skin boats made the native way.

470
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:01,680
We got to participate in building these umiacs.

471
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:07,760
We got to go in and see how the elders stitched together the hides with sinew and chew it

472
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,040
on them to make them soft at different places.

473
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,720
It was a really cool experience learning how to build these boats.

474
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:23,040
And then went out onto the ice to go hunt this whale and whale gets killed.

475
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:28,240
Everybody helps pull the whale up with block and tackle up onto the ice.

476
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:35,160
Takes hours and hours and my sister and I, the whaling captain lived behind us and he

477
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,600
told his son, take the girls home so they can get some sleep.

478
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:44,320
So he rides us home and we just go crawling to bed.

479
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,360
My dad comes in, he start pounding on the door.

480
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:47,640
He's like, get up.

481
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,160
I'm like, what's going on?

482
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,840
So we get up and he directs us out to the front porch and opens the door and there's

483
00:32:54,840 --> 00:33:01,360
these piles of whale meat and muck tuck, which is whale skin and baleen, which is the whale's

484
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,520
teeth in piles on the porch.

485
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,600
He's like, what is all this shit?

486
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,500
And we're like, we have no idea.

487
00:33:09,500 --> 00:33:10,680
What are you talking like?

488
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,800
We don't even know what this is.

489
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,120
And so he called the whaling captain behind us and he's like, what's going on with all

490
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:18,120
this stuff on my porch?

491
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,360
And he goes, well, your girls helped pull the whale in and helped on the hunt.

492
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,940
So this is your family's share of that whale.

493
00:33:25,940 --> 00:33:32,280
And so with that community, they accepted us as a family in that community so much so

494
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:40,160
that when I actually went back to that community as a police officer, decades later to police

495
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:45,920
there, as the only officer, I was told multiple times, welcome home.

496
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:51,560
They remembered me from that and brought our family in as part of that community, which

497
00:33:51,560 --> 00:34:02,680
was a really cool experience to be part of that just unique community out there.

498
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:07,800
When I see the kind of dynamic that you're talking about, when I grew up, I wouldn't

499
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,780
say that the town that I grew up in, it wasn't immense by any means, but it was large enough

500
00:34:11,780 --> 00:34:15,280
to not be like a super tight knit community.

501
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:20,400
But then I contrast when I've lived in London or some of these other big cities, there are

502
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,400
so many people that it seems like that sense of community is lost.

503
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:29,280
Now some downtowns or little suburbs actually do it well and they have a lot of downtown

504
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,960
events and the schools are very tight and the school games and those kinds of things.

505
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:39,120
But it feels like we've lost the very essence that it is to be a human being in some of

506
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,120
these places.

507
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:45,580
And if we go back to native humans, I think that's the answer.

508
00:34:45,580 --> 00:34:47,160
It really is.

509
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:54,520
Community is the key and we have gotten away from that so badly and often, as you stated

510
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,280
earlier, people are in their comfort zones.

511
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:04,600
And I think part of the problem that people have with the internet bullying and the trolls

512
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:10,880
and all the negativity basically that's out there is at the base root of all that, people

513
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,040
are just freaking bored.

514
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,080
They have nothing better to do with their time.

515
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:25,360
And if we lived a more sustainable life where you had to go garden, you had to get your

516
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:32,560
food, you had to go hunt fish, garden, gather, whatever, to go do those things, being able

517
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:37,720
to go cut your firewood to provide your heat, taking away those creature comforts that people

518
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:44,440
have in order to live life and keep you busy and occupied would take away the need for

519
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:52,400
all of this just sheer idiocracy going on right now.

520
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:53,400
I couldn't agree more.

521
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:54,400
I really couldn't.

522
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,960
I think the other sad thing, and I've heard this from many people and usually it's law

523
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:04,040
enforcement because that's the kind of uniform profession that is often in some of the tribal

524
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:05,040
areas.

525
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:11,560
But I've had people talking obviously about the beauty of tribal culture and sadly some

526
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,760
of the things that were robbed even when the Europeans moved in.

527
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:21,600
But I also hear about the poverty and some of the addiction issues and crimes and some

528
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,420
of these reservations as well.

529
00:36:23,420 --> 00:36:29,600
What was your experience with the native people in the Alaskan area?

530
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:38,360
They're an amazing, beautiful culture that is being lost to the internet basically.

531
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:44,800
And being lost to the doldrums of literally sitting in your house and playing on your

532
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,280
phones or on your video games or whatever.

533
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:58,560
The culture is so rich and so unique and it's truly just unbelievable that it's being pittered

534
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,920
away and nobody seems to care.

535
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:06,720
I think there will come a day that that knowledge is going to need to be there.

536
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:15,720
The people that I dealt with, obviously when you're out in those communities, as the only

537
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:21,800
law enforcement officer, you don't want to go in there as a jackbooted thug.

538
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,360
That's the last thing you want to do.

539
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:30,520
You don't want to go out there and start creating waves and being the big badass because then

540
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:32,400
you're going to be taking on the whole town.

541
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:33,440
They're not going to accept you.

542
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:41,320
So you integrate yourself into those cultures and into those communities and you go sit

543
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,440
with the elders in their house if they don't have any other kids there.

544
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:50,960
You go have coffee with them or you listen to their stories or you go to the schools

545
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:55,640
and you go interact with the kids and you teach them things.

546
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,200
You do D.A.R.E. and all that kind of stuff.

547
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,160
You're just very community oriented.

548
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:02,800
You do community activities.

549
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,760
And then when bad things happen, which they do, there are definitely there's alcohol and

550
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,200
drug and a lot of domestic violence.

551
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,160
That was one of the huge ones out there.

552
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:18,040
Alcohol induced D.V. and it's horrific when it happens.

553
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,980
They're extremely violent.

554
00:38:21,980 --> 00:38:25,560
You deal with those individuals at that time.

555
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:32,080
What if you have established a relationship with them prior to them popping off on whatever

556
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:37,600
issue it is that they're having, nine times out of ten, they're going to be fairly compliant

557
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:45,120
or at least not as combative as they would be if you were the town jackbooted thug to

558
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,520
come in and just be the cop there.

559
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:48,760
You know what I mean?

560
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:55,920
So that was a unique experience to be able to integrate with the communities, get to

561
00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:02,680
know them, get to know their families, get to know the people and deal with law enforcement

562
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,920
from a community oriented policing perspective.

563
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,160
Why do you think, because I hear this a lot, why do you think that the domestic violence

564
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,240
specifically is so bad in some of these cultures?

565
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:20,760
Is it part of the cultural element as well that's amplified by mental health and alcohol?

566
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,240
I think alcohol fuels it.

567
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:30,020
I don't know that it has anything to do specifically with any kind of race that you are, whether

568
00:39:30,020 --> 00:39:37,720
you're Alaska Native, American Indian, white, black, Chinese, it doesn't matter.

569
00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:48,000
You start adding alcohol into anger, it's going to result in domestic violence.

570
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:54,440
One of the things with that they need to break the stigma, and this is what we've worked

571
00:39:54,440 --> 00:40:00,200
with a lot out in the villages to break the stigma, break that cycle of violence, is that

572
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:05,200
all these young kids have seen their parents, you're in a very isolated community, fly in,

573
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:06,800
fly out only.

574
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:07,800
You're very isolated.

575
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:09,360
You don't have any place that you can go.

576
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:16,200
You're basically in a fishbowl driving around and everybody knows everybody.

577
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:23,760
And so what they see and what they hear is in a very microscopic arena and they don't

578
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,160
know anything from the outside.

579
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:31,840
The kids don't understand that if they leave the village and go out into the big world

580
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:37,760
that their lives could be completely different than what it could be if they stayed in the

581
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:38,760
village.

582
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:49,440
So teaching them that it's not okay to have that abuse, it's not okay to react violently,

583
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:58,120
it's not okay to go beat somebody up because you had an argument with them, it just comes

584
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:05,000
down to understanding and learning a new way that wasn't taught to them.

585
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,440
And they've seen it generationally.

586
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:16,160
And so I think that does add to the amount of domestic violence in the villages.

587
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:23,560
I think it's isolation, learned behavior and alcohol for sure adding to it.

588
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:31,320
But I saw a lot, a lot, a lot of DV, violent DV as well when I transferred down to Wasilla,

589
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,560
which was a city department in Alaska and worked there in Wasilla.

590
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,360
And it was equally bad.

591
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,000
I just had backup there.

592
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,280
So it's across the board.

593
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,920
It's just, it's a learned behavior.

594
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,240
What is the dynamic in Alaska specifically?

595
00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:53,440
In America and in Canada, a lot of times you hear about, I mean, the Trail of Tears and

596
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:59,600
all these other stories of native people being geographically moved, putting on reservations,

597
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:05,400
sometimes even being, I forget the term, almost like Aryanized, it's breeding the Indian out

598
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,120
of them doing air quotes here.

599
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:12,600
And so now you have this people who literally, we talk about tribes, their entire identity

600
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:17,600
is being deconstructed by these people who have invaded their country.

601
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:22,680
Were the Alaskan natives subjected to the same thing or was the remote nature able to

602
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,440
help them to actually retain their land?

603
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,360
They've predominantly retained their land.

604
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,320
We don't have reservations up here.

605
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,880
Alaska has no reservations at all.

606
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:39,960
They have villages which are predominantly their tribe of people wherever they're at.

607
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:47,560
And then there's actually the Chickaloon, which if you, after we get done with this,

608
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,080
you could look it up online.

609
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:54,520
Chickaloon, Alaska is actually one of, it's an independent nation that lives in the state

610
00:42:54,520 --> 00:43:00,760
of Alaska, but they function as an independent nation, as a tribal people, which is really

611
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,320
unique.

612
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:09,760
They're type of working with those people there, but they've maintained their identity.

613
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:18,800
Most Alaskan villages and natives pretty much stay in their tribal lands up here.

614
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,400
They weren't pushed out really.

615
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,920
I mean, maybe in some of the bigger cities where they're clearing land or whatever, but

616
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:28,440
it wasn't anything like lower 48 where they did that kind of stuff down there.

617
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:35,120
It was a lot and still is more rugged, more wild west.

618
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,800
We don't have a huge population base up here.

619
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:44,680
I think our state population last I checked was 736,000 people total statewide.

620
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:45,680
Amazing.

621
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:46,680
Yeah, it's funny.

622
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:51,680
I remember going to Australia and New Zealand and in Australia, obviously the Aboriginal

623
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,640
people are in the outback usually, and it was very sad.

624
00:43:55,640 --> 00:44:00,720
I went to visit Ayers Rock and I didn't get to meet a single Aboriginal person to tell

625
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:04,720
me about their culture and this holy place that we were visiting.

626
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:06,560
They were kind of kept away.

627
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,880
Conversely, in New Zealand, the Maori people were everywhere.

628
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:16,600
The difference is when the Europeans went to Australia, there was a lot of genocide

629
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:20,080
for lack of a better word, but when I think they went to New Zealand and they were met

630
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:24,960
with these monstrous warriors covered in tattoos, they were like, well, do you want to share

631
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:25,960
this island?

632
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,040
I'm sure it was the same in Alaska.

633
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,640
They probably looked at the vast tundra and be like, we're good.

634
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:32,640
You guys can stay there.

635
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:38,480
It's a shame because if there'd be more resistance, maybe more of these cultures would still be

636
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:39,480
intact.

637
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:40,480
Yeah, possibly.

638
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,800
I don't know.

639
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:49,840
I wish things could be different and that we could go back to some older ways.

640
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:51,160
Absolutely.

641
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:52,160
I think that's it.

642
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,040
There are so many conversations I have with people when it's mental health, whether it's

643
00:44:55,040 --> 00:45:00,880
obesity, whatever the topic is, most of the answers are, let's go back to doing things

644
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:05,080
100, 150 years ago, especially if you're not, again, I'm not talking about New York City,

645
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:09,800
but most of the rest of the country, growing your own food and having real food in schools

646
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:14,160
and exercise is just part of your everyday and you're out in nature and you get sunlight

647
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,340
and you've got this community of a local town or village.

648
00:45:17,340 --> 00:45:18,920
These are all the things that we know work.

649
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:23,200
They've worked for humans for millennia and then we've deconstructed that literally in

650
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:24,680
less than 100 years.

651
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:25,680
Yeah.

652
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:27,680
Look where it's got us now.

653
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:29,480
Yeah, exactly.

654
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:36,000
Well, going back to your career, talk to me about your injury and then your transition

655
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,000
out of uniform.

656
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:46,280
I was heading out to a call in my patrol cars down in Wasilla and I was stopped at a red

657
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:51,680
light downtown and it was a non-emergent call so I was just stopped.

658
00:45:51,680 --> 00:46:00,400
I was actually reading the call on my MDT and just sitting there reading the MDT and

659
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:05,360
all of a sudden the inside of my patrol car exploded, exploded.

660
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:13,720
I thought I'd gotten shot because all I see is glass flying all over and my shoulder was

661
00:46:13,720 --> 00:46:14,900
on fire.

662
00:46:14,900 --> 00:46:19,520
It felt like I'd been shot.

663
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:23,160
I don't remember anything after that.

664
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:28,200
I know what people have told me happened after that but I don't have the collective memory

665
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,000
of that.

666
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:39,760
But I had been hit from behind by a one ton pickup truck that was doing, they estimate,

667
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:47,200
probably 55 to 65 miles per hour, didn't see the stoplight is what he said, didn't see

668
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:54,920
the patrol car sitting at the stoplight and rear ended me and crunched my patrol car and

669
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,720
me in the process up.

670
00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:09,200
Totaled my car, totaled me and he walked away with a citation.

671
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,120
It was a devastating injury for me.

672
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:15,520
I tried to, as all cops do, I tried to shake it off.

673
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:22,320
I had actually torn some nerves and ligaments and crap up in my shoulder.

674
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,080
I did some damage.

675
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:28,320
I was trying to play it off and be like, I'm alright, I'm alright.

676
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,900
Well, I could only do that for so long.

677
00:47:30,900 --> 00:47:33,120
My arm was getting worse and worse.

678
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:37,800
I'd been in to have it looked at several times.

679
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:43,720
My arm, at one point my sergeant was like, you need to go into the hospital now.

680
00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:44,720
I was like, why?

681
00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:47,320
He goes, your arm is blue.

682
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:48,920
I looked down, my arm was blue.

683
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,120
I'm like, well, that's not good.

684
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:59,920
So we got in there and they were able to give me a shot up in my arm and relax my shoulder.

685
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:05,480
Well, I did this for close to a year.

686
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:10,160
I was fighting Workman's Comp during that time and that's why I continued working because

687
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:11,680
I was fighting Workman's Comp.

688
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:19,040
They didn't want to cover the surgery that was required for my arm to get better.

689
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,080
They were dragging their feet on it.

690
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:31,480
So long story short, after I had to hire an attorney, we met with the state and the guy

691
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,640
looked at my arm and he's like, is this what we're fighting about?

692
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:35,640
I said, yes.

693
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:36,640
He said, your arm is blue.

694
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,040
I said, yeah, it needs surgery.

695
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,600
It's needed surgery for like a year.

696
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:44,800
And he said, go get to the hospital, get it done.

697
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,940
They got me into surgery within three days after that.

698
00:48:48,940 --> 00:48:58,760
They did a full reconstructs, took out one of my ribs up here to open up the channel,

699
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:03,520
reconstructed everything up there, tried to put everything back together, but the nerve

700
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:13,360
damage by that point, because it had taken so long for the state to jump on it, did irreversible

701
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,360
damage.

702
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:24,840
When I went through rehab, it took me almost a year of rehab where I was trying to get

703
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:32,800
my shoulder back to functional where I could actually pick up my gun, move my arm up, that

704
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:33,800
kind of thing.

705
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:34,800
It wasn't working.

706
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:39,320
Every time I'd lift my arm up, it would go dead from the nerve damage and I couldn't

707
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:40,320
feel things.

708
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,440
I couldn't manipulate things and I'm left handed.

709
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:49,680
It was my left hand, of course, that got injured, my left arm.

710
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:53,440
I worked for a year trying to get it back to functional.

711
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,600
They brought me into work rehab, that kind of thing.

712
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:02,440
At the end of all that, they sat me down and they're like, you're never going to be a

713
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:03,440
cop again.

714
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:04,440
You can't.

715
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:05,440
Your arm's too fried.

716
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,720
You can't manipulate a gun.

717
00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:09,960
Your career is over.

718
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:16,680
I was like, it was devastating because I was five years away from retirement and I'm like,

719
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:18,760
this cannot be happening right now.

720
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:19,760
Can't be happening.

721
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:20,760
But it was.

722
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:22,560
Then I was like, okay.

723
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:26,560
I'm like, well, I was a paramedic and a firefighter.

724
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:27,560
I could go do that.

725
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:29,600
They're like, no, no, you can't.

726
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:31,480
You can't go do that either.

727
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:32,480
Your arm is shot.

728
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,320
You're going to have to adjust to this new way of life.

729
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:41,640
You have a permanent disability now that you will not ever be able to do law enforcement,

730
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,960
paramedic, fire, any of that.

731
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:46,560
You can't.

732
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:47,560
That took a lot.

733
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,520
That was devastating to me.

734
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,000
Absolutely devastating.

735
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:57,560
Every time I would, I'm in the bottom of the bucket.

736
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,280
I was like, this is not a good place to be.

737
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:08,840
I still had three teenage daughters at home and they're all in high school and I'm getting

738
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,240
ready to be at the end of my career and everything was going good.

739
00:51:12,240 --> 00:51:18,160
Then the rug got ripped out from underneath me and I was like, my world went into a tailspin

740
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:19,160
hard.

741
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,480
I was like, I don't know what to do.

742
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:22,480
I couldn't work.

743
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:23,960
They wouldn't let me go back to work.

744
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:31,840
They put me on medical retirement and wasn't enough to cover my mortgage, all this stuff

745
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:32,840
and I couldn't work.

746
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,760
It was just a whole nightmare of things that were piling up.

747
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:43,000
Then years, years, years, years before, one of my buddies had actually moved out to Eagle

748
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,520
and he had asked me, hey, will you help me move out there?

749
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,520
It was a 12 hour drive from where we were at.

750
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,920
Yeah, sure, I'll help you out.

751
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,480
We drove him up, moved him up here, saw Eagle.

752
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,880
I was like, this is a pretty cool little place.

753
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:57,960
Someday when I retire, I'd like to move out here.

754
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:01,320
It's very peaceful, very remote.

755
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:06,040
There was no, I mean, there's like 70 people out here.

756
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,600
There's nothing in the way of realtors or anything like that.

757
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,000
It's word of mouth.

758
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,840
We're driving around and my buddy shows me this old cabin that's up on a hill and he's

759
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:17,560
like, I know the guy that has this place.

760
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,120
He may be interested in selling it.

761
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:22,400
I said, we'll give him my name if you see him and maybe someday.

762
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:26,040
I'm a bit away from retirement.

763
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:34,360
Well, as the cards unfolded, I just gotten medically retired.

764
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,440
I was working through it, trying my best.

765
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:37,600
Things were not going good.

766
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:41,280
I was looking at the end of a shotgun barrel because I was done.

767
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:42,760
I was like, this is not happening.

768
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:46,680
I cannot keep doing this.

769
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:50,960
I get this phone call out of the blue and it's the guy that owns the cabin up here and

770
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:57,160
said, Hey, I just decided that I want to sell my cabin and my kids don't want it.

771
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:58,160
Are you interested?

772
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,560
I was like, window of opportunity.

773
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:02,560
Absolutely.

774
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:03,680
I will take it.

775
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:04,680
So sight unseen.

776
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:14,520
My husband and I bought this place and then first, the, so the roads closed up here eight,

777
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:15,680
eight months of the year.

778
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:17,280
You cannot drive up here.

779
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,880
It's closed due to snow.

780
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:27,280
So as soon as the snow broke in April, we decided to drive up here knowing we had just

781
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:28,880
bought this place.

782
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:32,240
My place is in foreclosure where I'm at.

783
00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:36,040
I need to find a place for my kids ASAP.

784
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:43,720
So I get up here and it was, uh, it was still snowing.

785
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:47,520
It was 20 below zero and, um, front door wouldn't open.

786
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:52,200
I told my husband, I said, uh, put shoulder into it, puts a shoulder into it.

787
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,480
Porch collapses.

788
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:59,160
We get inside and it is a rat dive of a cabin.

789
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:00,640
I mean, it's bad.

790
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:06,280
It's like a seventies furniture and stuff in it and it is covered in cat and dog hair,

791
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:07,280
cobwebs.

792
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,320
Nobody lived in it for like 15 years.

793
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:15,280
And there was an old wood barrel stove in the middle of the living room and it had holes

794
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,080
in the stove pipe and everything.

795
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,520
And I was like, Oh my gosh, what have we done?

796
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:27,560
Cause I literally socked the very last of my savings into this nickel and dime little

797
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:33,000
cabin that I bought out in the middle of Alaska and I didn't know what else to do.

798
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,820
So it was like, well, here we go.

799
00:54:36,820 --> 00:54:42,440
So we lit a fire up in that wood stove cause it was, we spent, I don't know what four or

800
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:49,200
five days in, in a 20 below weather, that front door wouldn't shut cause the porch caved

801
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:50,200
in.

802
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:54,240
So we, it was literally 20 below zero in the house.

803
00:54:54,240 --> 00:54:55,240
Super cold.

804
00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:56,240
Couldn't stay warm.

805
00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:59,000
Finally said, fuck it, light up the wood stove.

806
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:00,760
So if it burns down, it burns down.

807
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:02,080
It's insured, whatever.

808
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:09,640
So we threw the, threw the wood stove on house, heated up, looked at it in a new light and

809
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:13,480
were able to kind of start looking at it and being like, ah, we could fix that.

810
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:14,560
We could rebuild that.

811
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:15,720
We could flip this thing.

812
00:55:15,720 --> 00:55:21,960
We could do this at, so we took the next, basically the next five months and worked

813
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:27,560
12 to 16 hour days and we flipped this place.

814
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:28,560
We rehabbed it.

815
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,160
We got it.

816
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:31,160
We got it rebuilt.

817
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:32,160
We got it.

818
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,560
We got a good stove put in and we got all this stuff done.

819
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,080
And then I went and picked up my kids.

820
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,800
They were staying with my sister while they finished up their school down there.

821
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:44,880
And then I went and picked up my kids, brought them up here and we started our life homesteading

822
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:45,880
in Alaska.

823
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:52,340
And it was the best thing that I could have done because it was what gave me a new focus

824
00:55:52,340 --> 00:56:01,160
to be able to get out of my head, to get out of my pity, woe is me, lost everything mindset

825
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:07,560
to, hey, let's work on getting this cabin up and built.

826
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:09,640
There's no police, no fire.

827
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:10,640
There's nothing up here.

828
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:12,400
There's no sirens going anywhere.

829
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:18,000
So I didn't feel that call to go respond every time I heard sirens going by.

830
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:21,480
It was mentally, it was a good spot for me to be in.

831
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:27,880
So that first year that we were out here doing that, we focused on that, just getting everything

832
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:29,600
up and running.

833
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:38,360
And then one of my buddies got involved in a shooting and he was like, hey, can I come

834
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:40,240
up and hang out with you?

835
00:56:40,240 --> 00:56:45,880
And I got a Marine buddy too that has some issues.

836
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,880
He just needs some peace of mind.

837
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,320
Sure, come on up, bring them up.

838
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:56,920
So the two of them came up and that was our kind of our aha moment that we had this little

839
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,480
piece of paradise out here.

840
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:02,560
Where both of them were able to relax, open up.

841
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,240
My buddy was able to talk to me.

842
00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:08,660
The other guy, my husband's a military veteran.

843
00:57:08,660 --> 00:57:11,720
So they were able to peel off and go talk together.

844
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:22,960
And it just became like a sanctuary kind of for wounded, whether emotionally, physically,

845
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:27,600
mentally, whatever issues that person is having.

846
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:32,560
It became that place for people to come up here, hang out with us, see what Alaska life

847
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:38,760
is like, eat some good food, joke around the campfires, go walk in the woods, go explore,

848
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:45,360
you know, whatever place for people to come and just be away from all of the chaos, unplugged

849
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,500
from the rat race, all of that kind of stuff.

850
00:57:48,500 --> 00:57:51,160
So that was my new direction in life.

851
00:57:51,160 --> 00:58:01,720
I decided that that chapter was closed on being able to participate in emergency services,

852
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:07,280
but I could still help other people, which is my deepest drive for life is to be able

853
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,220
to help others.

854
00:58:09,220 --> 00:58:14,620
The number of horror stories I've heard from workman's comp, also EAP, the mental health

855
00:58:14,620 --> 00:58:18,800
side and people looking for help in that way, but workman's comp especially, and there's

856
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:24,320
such a clear cut incident in your case, you're in a patrol vehicle, you're on duty, you get

857
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:30,880
rear-ended by a vehicle, which again, I don't think people realize how little penalties

858
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:35,200
there are for causing death or injury on the road.

859
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:38,840
I'm writing a second book and I was researching a certain chapter and I was talking to some

860
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,880
of my police friends and they're like, oh no, if you kill someone, it becomes a civil

861
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,880
suit, but really, unless they can prove that you were doing it maliciously or they were

862
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,480
drunk, then yeah, they get away with it.

863
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:54,360
I was just like, oh my God, this is insane, absolutely insane.

864
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:59,560
Now you've got this injury, it's threatening your career, it's threatening your ability

865
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:04,640
to even feed your children, and now you're having to fight this workman's comp claim

866
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:08,440
for the longest time and then you have this forced medical disability, which one would

867
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,040
argue may or may not be the right choice.

868
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:15,120
However, the way it went about obviously was probably not as well as it should have been

869
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:16,400
handled.

870
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:20,720
Talk to me about how that impacted your mental health because you have this tribe, you have

871
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:25,680
this purpose, you have this identity, and when one of your members of your family or

872
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:31,760
tribe, your community is injured, one would think that we all surround them, make sure

873
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:33,760
they're okay, and then lift them up again.

874
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:38,000
More often than not, I have firefighters and police officers and paramedics and every other

875
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:42,080
kind of professional here that did everything they were supposed to do and then had their

876
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:47,880
legs cut from under them when they were wounded or if something else happened in their uniform.

877
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:54,280
That's exactly what happens predominantly, I would say 90% of the time.

878
00:59:54,280 --> 01:00:02,040
That was a hard one to wrap your head around was the lack of support from your guys that

879
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:04,400
you're out battling with.

880
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:09,200
You're out there defending each other's lives, you're on the streets together, you're the

881
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:14,760
invincible warriors out on the street doing your thing, and then you get taken out and

882
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:18,400
now all of a sudden you're like a leper.

883
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:25,600
Nobody wants to address the fact that Grimes got taken out, she was supposed to be invincible.

884
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:30,460
If you bring that to the front and they try to wrap their head around it by addressing

885
01:00:30,460 --> 01:00:37,960
it and saying, hey, we're here to help you, whatever, they don't want to see that vulnerability.

886
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:41,400
They don't, they don't reach out, they don't come in to help you.

887
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:46,600
They basically push you away and it is awful.

888
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:49,320
That was one of my like, you know what?

889
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:56,480
I spent almost 30 years of my life providing services to other people.

890
01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:03,720
I get taken out and literally nobody.

891
01:01:03,720 --> 01:01:13,120
While I was in the hospital recovering from my surgery, not one officer came by, but one

892
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:24,540
of my old closest friends, she was with the blood bank of Alaska and she'd known me since

893
01:01:24,540 --> 01:01:29,200
I was like early 20s or whatever, always followed my career.

894
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:35,960
She was just this really close family friend and she was a nurse and she drove up from

895
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:44,100
Homer, which is about a three hour drive to get to Anchorage where I had my surgery done

896
01:01:44,100 --> 01:01:52,120
and came in and was like commanding the nurses in my room, like you take care of this officer,

897
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,560
da da da da, all this stuff.

898
01:01:54,560 --> 01:02:01,040
She was like my biggest cheerleader type thing and that was cool, but she was not a part

899
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:06,280
of my emergency services family.

900
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:12,640
She knew of it, she was kind of in it because she was a nurse and she knew the other people

901
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:19,200
that I did, but it was an eye opener to me and it was very frustrating.

902
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:25,320
That was one of the reasons that I had joined the Wounded Blue.

903
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:31,520
They had approached me and offered me a volunteer position there with them, which I did for

904
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:35,080
a few years.

905
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:43,320
It was because of that, because when you get hurt in the line of duty, your department

906
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:44,520
doesn't go to bat for you.

907
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:45,880
They don't fight for you.

908
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:51,840
Your fellow officers do not contact you.

909
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:58,720
It was very frustrating and yeah, it is what it is.

910
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:02,760
I don't know how you change that culture.

911
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:10,600
It's a mindset and the way I felt like I could help change it was to provide knowing what

912
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:12,560
I went through.

913
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:18,680
I go out to other departments and I'll give speeches at squad meetings or whatever and

914
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:26,080
say, hey, if you ever do get hurt, here's an opportunity, an option for you because

915
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:30,160
don't count on your department backing you up because it's not going to happen.

916
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:31,960
Don't count on your friends being there for you.

917
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:40,600
That's not going to happen either and unfortunately, that's just the way that it goes.

918
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:45,280
What I've seen, if there is a response and I've had a lot of people on the show that

919
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:51,840
are widows from first responders and they're like, day one, two, three, everyone's there,

920
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:56,440
but then it all filters away and now you've got this grieving husband or wife and their

921
01:03:56,440 --> 01:04:01,120
children and three months later, no one's calling anymore.

922
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:07,480
The thing is, to look on the other side, what's so sad is that I can think about when I was

923
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:13,320
in and getting mandatory overtime all the time and these people are so tired and so

924
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:20,440
overworked that sometimes they just don't have the capacity or don't forcibly take

925
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:24,320
a step back and go, I need to check on whoever.

926
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:26,120
I think it's both sides.

927
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:30,880
It's that culture definitely and we do as we talked about before, come from a time where

928
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:36,960
they're deliberately cleaving community, deliberately driving people apart and then making them fight

929
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:41,560
against each other versus the community and that real family that you do find in some

930
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:47,000
police and fire departments, the well-led ones, but then also that workload, that immense

931
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:53,600
stress, their own mental health, blurring their minds to the fact that I need to check

932
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:54,600
on these people.

933
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:59,840
I think that's so important, having an organization that is bridging that gap because I'm sure

934
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:08,840
your closest law enforcement friends did care, but they didn't actually make a mental pause

935
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:10,560
to go, I need to check on Gwen.

936
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:12,640
I need to go to the hospital and visit her.

937
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:13,640
Okay, I missed the hospital.

938
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:18,440
I'm going to go to a house and visit her, but if you just don't show up, that is brutal

939
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:22,200
to the person who felt like they were part of a tribe and now their tribe has turned

940
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:24,040
their back on them.

941
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:25,040
It's true actually.

942
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:31,160
I still keep in contact with all my buddies from both departments that I work for.

943
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:35,080
One of them had posted on Facebook a couple of weeks ago.

944
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:42,860
It posted on there one of those copy paste things about, hey, my brothers and sisters

945
01:05:42,860 --> 01:05:47,520
in blue, should you ever need a hand or a ear to cry on?

946
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:48,520
I'm here for you.

947
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:52,200
I've always got your back, blah, blah, blah.

948
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:53,200
I read through it.

949
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:56,880
I was like, you were there when that happened to me.

950
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:58,480
You did not do that.

951
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:05,360
So I actually wrote it out nicely on social media on a response to him.

952
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:10,240
I said, I understand the sentiment behind this and I understand that that is what most

953
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:12,360
cops do feel like they say.

954
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:13,480
I will be there for you.

955
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:14,680
I will have your back.

956
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:18,400
I will do these things, but let's talk about reality.

957
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:23,400
You remember when I got taken out, when I got hurt, you didn't show up.

958
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:24,400
You didn't call.

959
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:25,400
You weren't there.

960
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,400
I needed you then, but you weren't.

961
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:32,720
So I'm not placing blame and I'm not trying to make you feel bad.

962
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:34,940
I'm just calling the facts the facts.

963
01:06:34,940 --> 01:06:39,880
So please, if this happens to another officer, remember what I'm telling you, that you didn't

964
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:42,520
do this for me, but do it for the next guy.

965
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:45,640
When he gets hurt, go out and do that for them.

966
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:48,360
So I posted that.

967
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:52,400
He actually responded back and he said, oh my gosh, I am so sorry.

968
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:57,000
I did not realize that I had actually done that in my head.

969
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:00,920
It was just, you know, just what you just said.

970
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:02,400
I'll get there.

971
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:03,400
I'll call her.

972
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:04,400
I'll go visit her house, whatever.

973
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:07,200
And it just kind of keeps getting pushed on the back burner.

974
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:08,400
Never happens.

975
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,120
And then just kind of gets forgotten.

976
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:18,760
So bringing that to light, I think is important so that, yes, your intention is good.

977
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:20,440
Obviously you want to help people.

978
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:21,440
That's why you're a cop.

979
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:22,440
That's why you're a paramedic.

980
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:23,440
That's why you're a firefighter.

981
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:24,440
You want to help people.

982
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:26,480
You want to be there for them.

983
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:33,680
But when one of your brothers and sisters gets hurt or gets, you know, some mental going

984
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:41,600
on or they get suicidal or whatever the case may be, be there for them.

985
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:44,960
Don't think that somebody else is going to fill that role because they're not.

986
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:50,080
Like you need to be the catalyst in that and you need to lead the charge and bring others

987
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:57,960
to them to be able to not have that happen so that they have that sense of abandonment.

988
01:07:57,960 --> 01:07:58,960
Yeah.

989
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:03,600
When you talk about the suicide, you know, I've seen a lot of people like, oh, you know,

990
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:05,920
if you're hurting, if you're struggling, just call me.

991
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:06,920
Here's my number.

992
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,080
And it's like you've got that backwards.

993
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:10,080
They're hurting.

994
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:11,080
They're struggling.

995
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:13,920
They don't want to pick up a phone because they're hurting and they're struggling.

996
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,320
You have to physically put yourself in front of them.

997
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:17,320
Yeah.

998
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:19,300
Show up at their house or call them or whatever it is.

999
01:08:19,300 --> 01:08:21,560
So switch that around and you got the answer.

1000
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:22,560
Exactly.

1001
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:24,320
That's what I was trying to get across to him.

1002
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:25,440
Like I understand.

1003
01:08:25,440 --> 01:08:26,440
I understand.

1004
01:08:26,440 --> 01:08:27,440
I do.

1005
01:08:27,440 --> 01:08:28,440
I get the sentiment.

1006
01:08:28,440 --> 01:08:29,840
I understand where it's coming from.

1007
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:34,200
But in reality, this needs to be a full reversal.

1008
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:35,200
Absolutely.

1009
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:38,800
Well, I want to get to kind of one more area and then we'll close out.

1010
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:43,600
Obviously, you know, one of the reasons that people know you is the naked and afraid show.

1011
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:48,280
So how did you go from, you know, a storied first responder career to finding yourself

1012
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:49,280
on television?

1013
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:54,900
Well, that's a funny story too.

1014
01:08:54,900 --> 01:09:02,000
So we're up here in Eagle and the only way that you could get on the computer online

1015
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:10,480
was to go down to the local library and hop on their really slow dial up Wi-Fi.

1016
01:09:10,480 --> 01:09:18,240
And so we would go down every week or so, maybe every few days if we needed to do something.

1017
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:22,080
We'd hop on there for a couple hours.

1018
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:29,800
Well, I had been posting some stuff through I didn't because I was a cop retired, though.

1019
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:33,280
I still hadn't switched over into creating a profile or anything.

1020
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:41,360
So I had a basically I ghosted my I used my I used my husband's account for everything

1021
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:44,320
and I used his stuff to go on these other pages.

1022
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:47,040
So I post on like medical survivalists and that kind of stuff.

1023
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:49,920
And it was underneath his name.

1024
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:59,080
So he gets this messenger message and it's from this casting director saying, hey, we're

1025
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:02,080
super interested in putting you on on the show.

1026
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:03,280
Could you contact us?

1027
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:04,640
And he shows it to me.

1028
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:06,280
He's like, what is this?

1029
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:08,720
And I was like, I have no idea.

1030
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:09,720
And so we're reading through it.

1031
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:10,800
I'm like, that's just a scam.

1032
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:14,720
There's no there's whatever nobody's going to call us out of the blue in the remote Alaska

1033
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:18,600
to be on some reality TV show.

1034
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:22,420
So he goes, well, you you text her back then.

1035
01:10:22,420 --> 01:10:24,240
So I texted her and I'm like, all right, here's the deal.

1036
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:25,600
I said, this is legit.

1037
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,520
We have to we have to drive 10 minutes to get back to our house.

1038
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:29,560
And we have a landline.

1039
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:30,880
So you call us on the landline.

1040
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:36,640
And I want to talk to you in person if this is a legit message gave her the landline phone

1041
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:42,220
number and we leave from the library and go back up to the cabin, wait around for this

1042
01:10:42,220 --> 01:10:43,220
phone call.

1043
01:10:43,220 --> 01:10:47,000
And sure enough, phone rings and it says gal.

1044
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:54,400
And we'd actually just rented they get afraid.

1045
01:10:54,400 --> 01:11:03,440
Season one CD that we had or DVD that we had been watching on on this show on our TV because

1046
01:11:03,440 --> 01:11:06,600
we didn't have cable or anything like that.

1047
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:08,680
DVDs are it.

1048
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:09,680
So we were watching it.

1049
01:11:09,680 --> 01:11:12,580
We're like, that's that's pretty that's pretty extreme, right?

1050
01:11:12,580 --> 01:11:14,200
Not thinking too much of it.

1051
01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:16,160
So then this gal calls, right?

1052
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:21,600
And she says, she says, hey, I'm so and so with with the metal flowers media.

1053
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:26,160
And we want to talk to you guys about getting on with the show.

1054
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:28,400
And so I start going into cop mode, right?

1055
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:32,520
I'm interrogating this poor girl because I want to know if she's like a scammer.

1056
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:33,520
Right.

1057
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:35,680
So I'm like running her up and down.

1058
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:36,680
I'm on a phone.

1059
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:39,800
And so finally, she goes, I understand your hesitation.

1060
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:41,280
I'll tell you what she goes.

1061
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:45,400
I'm going to have E.J. Snyder call you here in a few days.

1062
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:47,640
He'll give you the survival test.

1063
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:52,440
And if you guys pass that test, then we'll we'll wrap you up and take you down to L.A.

1064
01:11:52,440 --> 01:11:53,440
for casting call.

1065
01:11:53,440 --> 01:11:54,440
My Gaya.

1066
01:11:54,440 --> 01:11:55,440
OK, whatever.

1067
01:11:55,440 --> 01:11:56,440
But nice talking to you.

1068
01:11:56,440 --> 01:11:57,440
Right.

1069
01:11:57,440 --> 01:11:58,440
Click.

1070
01:11:58,440 --> 01:12:02,640
Well, E.J. Snyder was on season one of the DVD that we had just watched.

1071
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:06,040
He has a very distinctive voice.

1072
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:07,040
Sure shit.

1073
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:10,520
Like three days later, E.J. calls and he starts talking to us.

1074
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:14,160
And I'm like, I looked at Nate and I was like, dude, like this is legit.

1075
01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:16,760
This is that guy that was on TV.

1076
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:20,800
And so he gives us this survival questionnaire on the phone.

1077
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:21,800
Right.

1078
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:24,240
And and everything worked out good.

1079
01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:27,280
They sent both Nate and I down to L.A. for casting call.

1080
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:30,280
So it was basically a cold call.

1081
01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:33,760
Out of the blue, they contacted us.

1082
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:35,920
Sent us to free trip to L.A.

1083
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:37,120
Got the casting call done.

1084
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:41,400
And from there, I three months later, I flew out to Mexico on my first challenge.

1085
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:45,180
So it was interesting.

1086
01:12:45,180 --> 01:12:49,080
So all the things that you talked about up to this point, from your childhood in Oregon

1087
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:56,000
to the Alaskan experience, the first responder professions, what elements of those helped

1088
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:59,560
you do so well on the show?

1089
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:00,560
Mental fortitude.

1090
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:03,960
That is the key to that show.

1091
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:05,920
You can have all the survival skills in the world.

1092
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:11,120
You can know how to tie a bowling upside down in the Batcave and it's not going to do a

1093
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:16,840
lick of good if you don't have mental fortitude to be out there because it is by far the most

1094
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:22,540
extreme environment that they put you in under the most extreme conditions.

1095
01:13:22,540 --> 01:13:33,640
And it is mentally so challenging to push through the extreme temperature, the bugs,

1096
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:39,440
the being naked and doing everything without any tools.

1097
01:13:39,440 --> 01:13:46,120
Like it is it is a shock to your system and it is an extreme, extreme challenge.

1098
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:52,000
And if you do not have that mental fortitude, you will tap.

1099
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:55,720
When you look at Bear Grylls, for example, there's that kind of tongue in cheek element

1100
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:59,720
where yes, he is out doing these things, but obviously he's got a camera crew and sometimes

1101
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:02,120
they stay in a motel for the night.

1102
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:05,920
What are some of the behind the scenes elements that you kind of made you chuckle when you

1103
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:08,440
were doing that whole experience?

1104
01:14:08,440 --> 01:14:10,240
We didn't have behind the scenes elements.

1105
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:15,960
They literally have you strip and then you go like that's it.

1106
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:21,600
Strip down and then they follow you around like you're a caveman on display in the Smithsonian.

1107
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:23,640
They don't talk to you.

1108
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:25,680
They don't interact with you.

1109
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:28,040
You just kind of doing your thing, living your life.

1110
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:35,400
And then every night they pull you aside for like up to a half hour interview and then

1111
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:39,840
they send you back to your little camp that you're in and that's what you do.

1112
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:45,840
Like the whole time, whatever challenge you're on, the camera crew and producers and all

1113
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:47,800
that, they don't talk to you.

1114
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:51,240
They don't interact with you on a very limited basis.

1115
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:52,640
You can't ask them questions.

1116
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:55,560
You can't be like, what kind of wood is this?

1117
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:57,480
Is this a poison wood?

1118
01:14:57,480 --> 01:14:59,800
You have to know what you're doing.

1119
01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:00,800
Berries.

1120
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:03,480
You can't be like, can I or can't I eat this berry?

1121
01:15:03,480 --> 01:15:07,080
They won't tell you, they'll just shrug their shoulders.

1122
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:17,180
You have to know what you're doing out there obviously to be successful but not having

1123
01:15:17,180 --> 01:15:21,640
that so it takes a few days once you're out there.

1124
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:25,640
You get everything, your basics set up, food, fire, shelter, all that.

1125
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:30,280
Get all that set up and then that's it.

1126
01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:36,120
So during the day, the camera crew's out there with you milling around like sharks, filming

1127
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:41,560
everything that you do and then in the evening at five, six o'clock at night, they go home.

1128
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:42,560
Nobody's out there.

1129
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:45,360
It's just you and your partner or you and your partners depending on what challenge

1130
01:15:45,360 --> 01:15:48,640
you're on and there's no crew there.

1131
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:49,640
Nobody there at night.

1132
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:51,000
Like that's it.

1133
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:54,960
You have a radio in your bag for emergencies.

1134
01:15:54,960 --> 01:16:00,480
If something were to happen, you can call them up and say, I need help now and you've

1135
01:16:00,480 --> 01:16:09,620
got depending on how close their camp is from yours, can be anywhere from a two minute response

1136
01:16:09,620 --> 01:16:12,020
to a 20 minute response.

1137
01:16:12,020 --> 01:16:19,840
So it's all dependent on your location and like our 40 day challenge in Africa.

1138
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:27,360
We had a huge crew, like huge production crew because there was 12 of us out there.

1139
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:32,800
So they had to have crews for all of these survivalists that were out there doing all

1140
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:34,800
the stuff that we did every day.

1141
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:43,240
Well to get help from them, it was a 10 minute response time because all of their crew was

1142
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:46,800
a 10 minute drive away.

1143
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:54,840
In Mexico, we had medics that were camped out down the beach from us in a tent up on

1144
01:16:54,840 --> 01:17:04,640
a hill that was about a six minute walk from our base camp where we were at.

1145
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:08,720
And so if we called them on the radio, it would take them six minutes to walk to where

1146
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:10,520
we were at to get there.

1147
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:19,920
So I mean, it's all dependent on your location, but people don't realize how hands off production

1148
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:20,920
is out there.

1149
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:24,560
You're literally just out there kind of doing your thing, trying to survive.

1150
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:32,380
And it's a very unique experience and an interesting challenge.

1151
01:17:32,380 --> 01:17:34,480
What about when you got back?

1152
01:17:34,480 --> 01:17:39,480
Now you're not going back to California or somewhere where you're going to be surrounded

1153
01:17:39,480 --> 01:17:42,520
by lots of people that are stopping you in shopping malls and wherever.

1154
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:48,360
Obviously you're going back to your remote location again, but what was the kind of ripple

1155
01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:52,880
effect of you being on screen in front of millions of people?

1156
01:17:52,880 --> 01:18:00,080
So one of the good ripple effects that happened with that was that's how the Wounded Blue

1157
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:01,400
found me.

1158
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:12,320
Basically one of their higher ups at the time had his wife and him were laying in bed watching

1159
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:13,320
the show.

1160
01:18:13,320 --> 01:18:16,360
He went in to go to the bathroom or something.

1161
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:24,440
And I came on the screen and told them, was starting to talk about my injury that had

1162
01:18:24,440 --> 01:18:26,320
medically disabled me.

1163
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:28,000
Same thing had happened to her husband.

1164
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:31,280
He was a cop that was with Wounded Blue.

1165
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:33,120
She said, you need to come out here and see this.

1166
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:37,760
So he came out and he started watching it and he was like, I need to contact this girl.

1167
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:40,720
And so he sent me a message and said, hey, I'm with the Wounded Blue.

1168
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:41,720
I saw your episode.

1169
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:43,600
I really want to talk to you.

1170
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:47,200
So went ahead and opened up that line of communication.

1171
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:50,240
And he was like, this is what we do.

1172
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:52,240
This is what we offer.

1173
01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:55,280
We would like you to come down and be a volunteer.

1174
01:18:55,280 --> 01:19:04,320
So that kind of launched my stint with the Wounded Blue and being able to go do that.

1175
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:10,680
So that was a good aspect of going out on the show was my involvement with the Wounded

1176
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:19,880
Blue, which helped basically network with a bunch of people to be able to help get others

1177
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:28,080
aware that there is help for wounded officers out there, that you don't have to be alone.

1178
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:34,800
Their motto, never forgotten, never alone resonates with wounded officers for sure,

1179
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:36,900
because we all have felt that way.

1180
01:19:36,900 --> 01:19:45,280
But with officers that have never been injured or in that situation, they don't understand

1181
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:46,860
the concept behind that.

1182
01:19:46,860 --> 01:19:54,000
And so it kind of banded together a bunch of broken misfits, if you will, that you can

1183
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:58,000
now have somebody in common with like, oh, you went through this too.

1184
01:19:58,000 --> 01:19:59,800
Oh, I've been through that.

1185
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:03,240
Yeah, you were fighting your state medical.

1186
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:06,720
Yeah, been there, done that.

1187
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:07,720
Let's talk.

1188
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:09,100
Like you help people through that.

1189
01:20:09,100 --> 01:20:13,600
You help them realize they are not alone, whether the department's there for them or

1190
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:18,880
not, that group of the Wounded Blue is there for them to help them through those things.

1191
01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:22,840
So it was a real cool organization on that aspect of it.

1192
01:20:22,840 --> 01:20:29,040
And then on a personal note, like I'm the only Alaskan that has ever completed a naked

1193
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:31,000
and afraid challenge.

1194
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:32,960
So I give myself props for that.

1195
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:38,640
But when I go through the stores, when I go through the stores here in Alaska, and Alaska

1196
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:40,740
is huge, it's a massive state.

1197
01:20:40,740 --> 01:20:42,040
I can be down in Anchorage.

1198
01:20:42,040 --> 01:20:43,160
I could be in Fairbanks.

1199
01:20:43,160 --> 01:20:48,240
I could be in remote Eagle, Alaska.

1200
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:54,480
And if I get recognized, people are all like doing the fangirl fanboy stuff.

1201
01:20:54,480 --> 01:20:55,580
It's funny.

1202
01:20:55,580 --> 01:20:56,580
It's fun.

1203
01:20:56,580 --> 01:20:57,580
It's interactive.

1204
01:20:57,580 --> 01:21:01,040
It's embarrassing at times.

1205
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:06,080
It's the worst when somebody like screams and runs at you across the store because you're

1206
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:11,440
like, oh crap, you know, did I arrest you and you're coming after me?

1207
01:21:11,440 --> 01:21:12,440
Did I?

1208
01:21:12,440 --> 01:21:17,400
I don't know why you know me, but now all of a sudden I have this, you've seen me naked

1209
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:22,400
on national TV to add to that little script, you know, so.

1210
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:26,480
It's quite a unique place to be.

1211
01:21:26,480 --> 01:21:28,360
Yeah, it is.

1212
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:29,640
All right, brilliant.

1213
01:21:29,640 --> 01:21:33,120
Well, I want to throw some closing questions at you before I let you go.

1214
01:21:33,120 --> 01:21:34,120
That's okay.

1215
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:35,120
Sure.

1216
01:21:35,120 --> 01:21:36,120
All right.

1217
01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:40,080
The first one I'd love to ask, is there a book or are there books that you love to recommend?

1218
01:21:40,080 --> 01:21:44,840
It can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated.

1219
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:53,680
So my buddy, Jeremy Charlo, he wrote a book called My Brother's Keeper.

1220
01:21:53,680 --> 01:22:00,960
Jeremy met Nate and I at a law enforcement convention down in Las Vegas.

1221
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:08,600
We were down there promoting wounded officers to come out and help us build a cabin out

1222
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:09,600
in remote Alaska.

1223
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:12,480
We had some acreages that we wanted to put a cabin on.

1224
01:22:12,480 --> 01:22:14,000
He was the only one out of that whole group.

1225
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:16,320
He walked over and he's like, what you got going on?

1226
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:18,840
Told him and he's like, I'm going to Alaska.

1227
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:20,840
We're like, okay.

1228
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:27,000
So sure enough, he showed up and the three of us went out and built a cabin two years

1229
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:34,560
ago from literally just dropping trees out in the middle of the Alaskan wilderness using

1230
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:36,240
hand tools and chainsaws.

1231
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:42,680
We dropped dead standing trees and we built a 16 by 20 cabin out in the middle of the

1232
01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:47,960
woods with a sod roof, old school trapper style type cabin.

1233
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:50,360
And Jeremy was out there with us for the 103 days that we did it.

1234
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:54,840
It was an epically life changing experience for him to come out there and do that with

1235
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:56,200
us.

1236
01:22:56,200 --> 01:23:02,280
And he wrote that book before he'd gone out with us called My Brother's Keeper based on

1237
01:23:02,280 --> 01:23:06,920
his experience going through all the stuff that we just talked about, getting shot in

1238
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:09,440
the line of duty, that kind of thing.

1239
01:23:09,440 --> 01:23:11,840
Really good book.

1240
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:14,800
He sells it on Amazon.

1241
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:20,440
So yeah, any officers that are going through struggles, good reference book on the survival

1242
01:23:20,440 --> 01:23:26,040
aspect besides a book by Kai Froenow called, she's one of the Naked and Afraid survivalists.

1243
01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:28,120
She's a phenomenal survivalist herself.

1244
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:36,480
Wrote a book called Thrive, I got it somewhere, I can't remember.

1245
01:23:36,480 --> 01:23:41,040
Anyway it's a super good survival book.

1246
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:47,840
Kai is currently right now battling on Last One Standing 2.

1247
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:52,740
So that book there, top survival book that I've ever read in my entire life.

1248
01:23:52,740 --> 01:23:59,160
She covers all topics, survival related, mental survival, physical, all that kind of stuff.

1249
01:23:59,160 --> 01:24:00,160
Very good.

1250
01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:07,320
Cop Shock also is a good, can't remember who the author is but the book's called Cop Shock.

1251
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:12,800
It's a good mental helping you through book.

1252
01:24:12,800 --> 01:24:17,920
Those would be my top three for the topics that we're on.

1253
01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:19,000
Excellent.

1254
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:21,080
I want to say Jeremy was the one that connected us.

1255
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:24,480
It's been so long since we first spoke but I want to say thank you to him as well.

1256
01:24:24,480 --> 01:24:29,000
I had him on the show probably only about six months ago now and it was a great, great

1257
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:30,840
conversation.

1258
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:34,560
He works with Operation Enduring Warrior and I helped them out once in a while as well

1259
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:36,080
so that's where we met.

1260
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:38,440
Yeah, Jeremy's a cool cat.

1261
01:24:38,440 --> 01:24:40,040
He's a good friend of ours now.

1262
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:41,040
Brilliant.

1263
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:42,320
All right, well same question.

1264
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:43,320
That was books.

1265
01:24:43,320 --> 01:24:46,080
What about films and documentaries?

1266
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:52,040
Well, don't really watch a lot of that kind of stuff just because we haven't had internet

1267
01:24:52,040 --> 01:24:53,040
for so long.

1268
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:58,320
We finally got Starlink out here so this will be our first winter with actually being able

1269
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:02,400
to watch things on TV.

1270
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:15,920
I personally, documentaries, I love realistic history, historical reenactments, defiance.

1271
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:24,640
That show is one of my top favorite survival shows with the Bielski brothers from World

1272
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:35,480
War II where they saved I think it was like 180 Jews from being annihilated and then how

1273
01:25:35,480 --> 01:25:41,760
they did it, how they counterattacked the Nazis that were trying to take out their families

1274
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:51,520
and their friends and how they created basically a survival camp out in the middle of the wilderness

1275
01:25:51,520 --> 01:26:00,360
and then did some guerrilla tactic turnabouts on the Nazis and then at the end they have

1276
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:06,040
these actual, where they're talking to the actual Bielski brothers and the survivors

1277
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:10,600
of some of the families that they helped pull through and they give all the stats and it's

1278
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:18,200
like they saved 180 families or something like that and now there's like 10,000 people

1279
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:22,880
that are alive because of the actions of these two brothers, those kind of things.

1280
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:24,800
Super cool movie, love it, defiance.

1281
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:28,640
Guaranteed one of my top favorite movies ever.

1282
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:31,320
I'm going to have to watch that.

1283
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:36,640
I do, I love watching true survival shows.

1284
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:45,880
So the show Alive, they just came out with a new one where they, that's from the 1972

1285
01:26:45,880 --> 01:26:48,400
Andes plane crash.

1286
01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:53,440
The reason that I love that story so much, it's a true survival story.

1287
01:26:53,440 --> 01:26:59,560
I mean they get dumped out on the middle of the Andes mountains, they are in the snow

1288
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:00,560
zone.

1289
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:02,960
They're not even in trees, they're in the snow zone.

1290
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:07,160
These are all young men on a soccer team, they get dumped into the middle of nowhere.

1291
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:08,160
Now what are you going to do?

1292
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:10,720
You got a bunch of you that are still alive.

1293
01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:12,360
How are you getting out of this one?

1294
01:27:12,360 --> 01:27:15,680
Nobody can find you, you're not being rescued.

1295
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:22,280
The story inspired me so much that when Nate and I, we took a back when I 2018, part of

1296
01:27:22,280 --> 01:27:29,440
my recovery of mentally getting mentally back into being myself was to take a backpacking

1297
01:27:29,440 --> 01:27:32,640
trip across Uruguay and Argentina.

1298
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:35,920
So we sparked out for three months and did that.

1299
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:45,560
And in part of that was to go meet one of the survivalists at the museum, the 1972 museum

1300
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:49,480
in Uruguay, Montevideo, Uruguay.

1301
01:27:49,480 --> 01:27:51,280
They have a museum there.

1302
01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:56,760
And so when I got there, I was like, I have come all the way from Alaska to meet a survivalist

1303
01:27:56,760 --> 01:28:02,720
or survivor from this 1972 crash because I read in some little booklet somewhere that

1304
01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:04,840
you can have tea with these survivors.

1305
01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:06,920
And they're like, Oh, sorry, we don't do that anymore.

1306
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:12,280
And I'm like, I just came all the way from Alaska to meet to do this event.

1307
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:13,280
Right.

1308
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:16,600
So the guy, the owner, he said, come back in three hours.

1309
01:28:16,600 --> 01:28:17,600
Okay.

1310
01:28:17,600 --> 01:28:23,200
So we went, we trolled around Montevideo for a few hours and then came back.

1311
01:28:23,200 --> 01:28:29,080
And sure enough, he had brought Eduardo Strauch, who was 19, one of the, he was 19 years old

1312
01:28:29,080 --> 01:28:30,080
when he crashed.

1313
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:32,720
He was one of the survivors in the plane.

1314
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:35,080
Eduardo came up to me, gave me a hug.

1315
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:40,320
He kissed me on both cheeks and we started talking about survival.

1316
01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:43,040
And I was like, I had so many questions for him.

1317
01:28:43,040 --> 01:28:44,640
I was like, how did you do this?

1318
01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:45,640
How did you do that?

1319
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:51,480
And he'd give me this brush off answer like, Oh, we just pulled the seat covers off.

1320
01:28:51,480 --> 01:28:55,360
We put them on the plane and then we trickled water off snow melt from the sun.

1321
01:28:55,360 --> 01:28:56,680
And that's how we got our water.

1322
01:28:56,680 --> 01:28:57,680
Now tell me about Alaska.

1323
01:28:57,680 --> 01:28:59,280
I want to know everything about Alaska.

1324
01:28:59,280 --> 01:29:02,040
And he's like grilling me on Alaska, flipping it around.

1325
01:29:02,040 --> 01:29:03,040
Right.

1326
01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:04,840
And he's just, just a character.

1327
01:29:04,840 --> 01:29:10,920
And we had such a great time sitting there talking with him about Alaska and about his

1328
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:12,520
experience out there.

1329
01:29:12,520 --> 01:29:17,240
And the fact that, I don't know, I felt like meeting this real life hero, right?

1330
01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:21,320
Like he's, he acts, he, he survived.

1331
01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:26,400
He had the most horrific event in his life happen where he had to resort to cannibalism

1332
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:27,400
to live.

1333
01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:33,080
And he lived and he had a successful life and he had a family and a career and did all

1334
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:34,080
of that.

1335
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:35,080
And it was just an incredible story.

1336
01:29:35,080 --> 01:29:37,680
And to meet him in person was just life changing.

1337
01:29:37,680 --> 01:29:40,880
And that was such a cool experience.

1338
01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:47,720
And so that movie alive and the book that they wrote alive, both good books, good movies

1339
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:55,640
to talk about the true human spirit, the, the ability to survive the worst successfully.

1340
01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:57,640
That's amazing though, to actually meet one of them.

1341
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:00,600
Yeah, all it was, it was such a cool experience.

1342
01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:01,600
Brilliant.

1343
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:05,640
Well, speaking of great people, is there a person that you'd recommend to come on this

1344
01:30:05,640 --> 01:30:10,760
podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders, military and associated professions of the

1345
01:30:10,760 --> 01:30:11,760
world?

1346
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:15,440
Have you talked with Eddie, with the one of blue?

1347
01:30:15,440 --> 01:30:16,440
I don't think so.

1348
01:30:16,440 --> 01:30:17,440
Richardson.

1349
01:30:17,440 --> 01:30:18,440
That's right.

1350
01:30:18,440 --> 01:30:19,440
Eddie Richard.

1351
01:30:19,440 --> 01:30:20,440
Wasn't ringing a bell.

1352
01:30:20,440 --> 01:30:26,200
So he would be, he's not with the wounded blue anymore, but he still is very active

1353
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:31,920
in doing things with wounded law enforcement.

1354
01:30:31,920 --> 01:30:33,800
He would be a really good person to talk to.

1355
01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:44,640
He was badly wounded in the line of duty and, and has some long-term effects that are not

1356
01:30:44,640 --> 01:30:46,280
going away with that.

1357
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:51,840
He's, he's super down to earth, really good dude.

1358
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:55,080
He would be at the top of my list that I can think of right now.

1359
01:30:55,080 --> 01:30:58,480
But if I think of anybody else, I can text your message.

1360
01:30:58,480 --> 01:31:00,160
Yeah, absolutely.

1361
01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:01,160
Please do.

1362
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:02,160
Thank you.

1363
01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:03,160
All right.

1364
01:31:03,160 --> 01:31:05,080
Well, then the very last question before we make sure everyone knows where to find you

1365
01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:09,000
online, what do you do to decompress?

1366
01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:12,920
I carve to me carving.

1367
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:21,640
So I use a basically a pocket knife and I carve figurines and statues and that kind

1368
01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:22,840
of stuff.

1369
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:26,680
And I, to me it's therapeutic.

1370
01:31:26,680 --> 01:31:36,280
It helps my mind focus on something that is, it takes me out of my, my bad head space when

1371
01:31:36,280 --> 01:31:42,020
I can get into carving and I can focus on creating unique things.

1372
01:31:42,020 --> 01:31:50,040
So it keeps me busy in the long dark winters and I, I enjoy it and it's therapeutic on

1373
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:56,080
my hand because it forces me to watch what my hand's doing because I still can't feel

1374
01:31:56,080 --> 01:31:57,080
my arm.

1375
01:31:57,080 --> 01:32:02,200
It's, I have 60% loss of the sensation in my arm.

1376
01:32:02,200 --> 01:32:08,960
So it forces me to watch what my hand is doing and she teaches me to relearn to do fine detail

1377
01:32:08,960 --> 01:32:10,080
with carving things.

1378
01:32:10,080 --> 01:32:15,960
So that's, that's kind of my, my decompression is to sit down and carve.

1379
01:32:15,960 --> 01:32:18,160
Have you seen any sort of improvement in your arm?

1380
01:32:18,160 --> 01:32:21,320
Has it got better than, you know, when you first had the injury?

1381
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:25,600
No it's, it's gotten worse.

1382
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:35,680
So when I first had it done, the surgery, it was that year of rehab was, was a lot trying

1383
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:36,680
to get it back.

1384
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:44,240
And then that's when they diagnosed me with the 60% loss of, of a sensation and use.

1385
01:32:44,240 --> 01:32:46,320
I have mobility issues as well.

1386
01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:51,960
I can't like lift my hand straight up over my, I can't lift my hand, my arm up.

1387
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:55,600
Like if you're holding your hands up, can't do that.

1388
01:32:55,600 --> 01:33:00,000
Just extremely limited range of motion with my left arm.

1389
01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:04,960
But it had, even with them doing all those surgeries, I've had multiple surgeries on

1390
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:07,680
it over the years.

1391
01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:12,640
This the nerve damage is so severe that it's not going to get better.

1392
01:33:12,640 --> 01:33:17,800
It's it's where it was at or sometimes it's worse.

1393
01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:23,360
Like if I lay on it the wrong way or if I lay down flat, just the sheer compression of

1394
01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:30,020
my chest muscles on it will spark it off to make it completely dead or it's like waking

1395
01:33:30,020 --> 01:33:32,080
up with your arm falling asleep.

1396
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:35,400
It just functions that way.

1397
01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:41,520
I think it was one of my police guests, Billy Cushing, who he was a canine handler.

1398
01:33:41,520 --> 01:33:44,800
And if I've got this right, it's been a while now he was shot.

1399
01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:51,120
And I remember him saying when they report when we get shot, they say, you know, either

1400
01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:54,480
they were killed or it was a turn that downplayed the injury.

1401
01:33:54,480 --> 01:33:58,800
And he said, they never say they had life, life changing injuries.

1402
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:02,040
So whatever the phrase people normally use, you know, they were injured or whatever it

1403
01:34:02,040 --> 01:34:03,040
is.

1404
01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:04,040
It's not just an injury.

1405
01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:06,520
It's something that for a lot of these people, Kevin Holtry is another one.

1406
01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:09,840
He's in a wheelchair now from from the shooting that he was in.

1407
01:34:09,840 --> 01:34:14,000
You know, this they they might have survived, but there is this long term impact that's

1408
01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:15,520
going to last the rest of their lives.

1409
01:34:15,520 --> 01:34:20,320
And it kind of downplays the sacrifice that our men and women that didn't die in a shooting

1410
01:34:20,320 --> 01:34:24,980
or a car accident or whatever it was are going to have to carry on throughout.

1411
01:34:24,980 --> 01:34:30,480
So I think it's it does a disservice to our people when it's when it's labeled that way.

1412
01:34:30,480 --> 01:34:31,480
It does.

1413
01:34:31,480 --> 01:34:38,480
And, you know, they just say, oh, they were wounded, you know, and it it does it downplays

1414
01:34:38,480 --> 01:34:46,080
it so much because you get to a point, especially with the speaking from my experience with

1415
01:34:46,080 --> 01:34:48,120
the long term effects.

1416
01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:50,560
This is my my dominant arm.

1417
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:51,560
I'm left handed.

1418
01:34:51,560 --> 01:35:01,720
My left arm was permanently injured, permanently disabled in the line of duty from a simple

1419
01:35:01,720 --> 01:35:06,200
car accident that just took everything from me.

1420
01:35:06,200 --> 01:35:12,240
And there was a point in early on when that injury first happened because it was being

1421
01:35:12,240 --> 01:35:18,000
downplayed by my department, by the state, by everybody saying, oh, you just jacked up

1422
01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:19,000
your shoulder.

1423
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:21,320
No, I injured it.

1424
01:35:21,320 --> 01:35:22,440
It's not going away.

1425
01:35:22,440 --> 01:35:24,160
This is not ever getting better.

1426
01:35:24,160 --> 01:35:27,520
This is something I have to live with the rest of my life.

1427
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:29,600
It impacts me daily.

1428
01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:34,480
You know, even just picking up a coffee cup is you have to pay attention or you're dropping

1429
01:35:34,480 --> 01:35:35,480
it.

1430
01:35:35,480 --> 01:35:37,920
I didn't have to do that before I got hit by that car.

1431
01:35:37,920 --> 01:35:43,880
So with all of the things that you go through with the surgeries, with the mental stress,

1432
01:35:43,880 --> 01:35:50,200
with the feeling like you can't do your job anymore, all those kind of things you wish

1433
01:35:50,200 --> 01:35:52,200
you would have gotten killed.

1434
01:35:52,200 --> 01:35:53,440
It would have been better.

1435
01:35:53,440 --> 01:35:55,560
Like those thoughts go through your head.

1436
01:35:55,560 --> 01:35:58,320
I wish that accident would have killed me.

1437
01:35:58,320 --> 01:36:01,120
I wouldn't have to deal with any of this today.

1438
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:05,360
Those are thoughts that legitimately go through wounded officers' heads.

1439
01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:13,880
And that's why that mental shift goes into being able to help those that do get wounded

1440
01:36:13,880 --> 01:36:19,600
critically, gravely, all of those kinds of things where they need that help to be able

1441
01:36:19,600 --> 01:36:23,960
to reach out and have others say, been there, I'm here.

1442
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:25,920
I know you're feeling that way.

1443
01:36:25,920 --> 01:36:27,240
Let's work through this.

1444
01:36:27,240 --> 01:36:28,240
It does.

1445
01:36:28,240 --> 01:36:29,720
It will get better.

1446
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:31,680
You just got to work through it.

1447
01:36:31,680 --> 01:36:33,920
You know, punch through it.

1448
01:36:33,920 --> 01:36:36,560
But yeah, it's not addressed.

1449
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:44,960
And it is very frustrating and very disheartening that even military guys that get permanently

1450
01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:46,480
injured in the military.

1451
01:36:46,480 --> 01:36:52,400
Yeah, they have their disability checks and that kind of stuff, but their sacrifice does

1452
01:36:52,400 --> 01:36:55,360
not go noticed much.

1453
01:36:55,360 --> 01:37:01,800
You know, it's the ones that die in battle that get the recognition, get the heroes,

1454
01:37:01,800 --> 01:37:04,720
you know, send-offs, all that kind of stuff.

1455
01:37:04,720 --> 01:37:10,320
The others, they're the forgotten ones that just get pushed aside like cannon fodder.

1456
01:37:10,320 --> 01:37:11,320
Absolutely.

1457
01:37:11,320 --> 01:37:16,800
There's one of the Delta guys I had on, Pat McNamara, used the term disposable heroes.

1458
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:21,400
And I think police, fire, EMS, and the military, we can all relate to that.

1459
01:37:21,400 --> 01:37:24,480
You know, everyone's waving the flags and the politicians are all shaking their hands

1460
01:37:24,480 --> 01:37:25,960
during election season.

1461
01:37:25,960 --> 01:37:31,960
But you know, when the door closes behind you for the last time, especially in the first

1462
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:34,200
responder profession, there is no VA even.

1463
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:35,520
You're not even counted anymore.

1464
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:37,440
You're just, you know, you're gone.

1465
01:37:37,440 --> 01:37:41,360
Well, then I'm sure people listening would love to kind of follow you or be able to reach

1466
01:37:41,360 --> 01:37:44,240
out where are the best places online to do that?

1467
01:37:44,240 --> 01:37:51,840
Well, I've got a Facebook page under just my name, Gwen Grimes, and then my Instagram

1468
01:37:51,840 --> 01:37:52,840
grizzlyguenn907.

1469
01:37:52,840 --> 01:37:57,560
Those are the only two platforms that I have.

1470
01:37:57,560 --> 01:38:00,920
Were there 906 grizzlyguenns already and that's why you had to choose that one?

1471
01:38:00,920 --> 01:38:02,920
What does the 907 mean?

1472
01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:05,600
907 is the area code for Alaska.

1473
01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:08,000
Okay, I was wondering.

1474
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:09,000
All right.

1475
01:38:09,000 --> 01:38:11,760
Well, Gwen, I want to say thank you so much.

1476
01:38:11,760 --> 01:38:16,640
I mean, for people listening, you know, you're there, like you said, on your phone with the

1477
01:38:16,640 --> 01:38:21,160
new internet that you've got, but you are miles away from, you know, I was going to

1478
01:38:21,160 --> 01:38:22,160
use the word civilization.

1479
01:38:22,160 --> 01:38:26,080
I think that's the wrong word, miles away from densely populated areas.

1480
01:38:26,080 --> 01:38:28,480
But we made this conversation work.

1481
01:38:28,480 --> 01:38:32,200
So I want to thank you so, so much for being so generous with your time and coming on the

1482
01:38:32,200 --> 01:38:34,120
Behind the Shield podcast today.

1483
01:38:34,120 --> 01:38:36,080
I appreciate the opportunity.

1484
01:38:36,080 --> 01:39:04,080
Thank you so much.