1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,400
This episode is brought to you by Thorne, the industry leader in nutritional solutions.

2
00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,540
Now Thorne is actually trusted by eight U.S.

3
00:00:07,540 --> 00:00:12,440
national teams and championship teams in the NFL, NBA and Major League,

4
00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:17,920
as well as recently becoming the official sports performance nutrition partner of the UFC.

5
00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:23,020
So when it comes to supplements, the tactical athlete space

6
00:00:23,020 --> 00:00:25,360
and the athletic space need two things.

7
00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,760
We need efficacy, meaning the products do what they say they're going to do on the label

8
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:32,600
and then we need to trust the fact that we are not going to fail

9
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,340
either athletic drug tests or work related drug tests.

10
00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,940
Now Thorne has actually been around since the 1980s

11
00:00:38,940 --> 00:00:44,040
where they were used by physicians and hospitals for nutritional supplements for the patients.

12
00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,940
They were so successful that athletic teams and even special operations teams

13
00:00:48,940 --> 00:00:51,820
reached out to them and they started supplying them as well.

14
00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,720
Very recently, they actually opened their doors to the general public.

15
00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,020
Now, what sets Thorne apart is they manufacture their own products

16
00:00:59,020 --> 00:01:03,160
in a state of the art NSF certified facility in South Carolina.

17
00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,460
They use only the purest possible ingredients formulated with no stearates

18
00:01:07,460 --> 00:01:11,360
or arbitrary fillers in the cleanest manufacturing process.

19
00:01:11,700 --> 00:01:16,000
Most of you listening come from a profession where it can take its toll physically and mentally,

20
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:21,140
and many of us are not able to bolster our nutrition purely with the food that we eat.

21
00:01:21,580 --> 00:01:24,080
And that's where supplementation comes in.

22
00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,080
So if you're ready to maximize your health and performance, visit

23
00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,420
Thorne.com, T-H-O-R-N-E dot com.

24
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:35,160
Take a short product quiz to be paired up with the perfect health and fitness supplements.

25
00:01:35,620 --> 00:01:42,860
And for you, the audience, if you use the code BTS10, behind the shield 10, BTS10,

26
00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,400
you will get 10% off your first order.

27
00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,100
And if you want to learn even more about Thorne, go to episode

28
00:01:49,100 --> 00:01:53,340
323 of Behind the Shield podcast and you will hear my interview with

29
00:01:53,340 --> 00:01:59,840
Wes Barnett and Joel Totoro from Thorne. This episode is sponsored by Five Eleven,

30
00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:04,080
a company that I've used for well over a decade and continue to use to this day.

31
00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,920
And Five Eleven is offering you guys the audience of the Behind the Shield

32
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,460
podcast, a discount on every purchase you make with them.

33
00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:14,720
Before we get to that code, I want to highlight a couple of products that,

34
00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,860
again, I personally use today.

35
00:02:16,860 --> 00:02:22,940
One of the most impressive products they just released is their Rush Backpack 2.0.

36
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,200
Now, for many of you, whether you're going to the fire station, the police station,

37
00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,880
whether you're traveling with your family, whether you're taking training courses,

38
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,880
we have to fly, we have to drive, we have to take trains.

39
00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,320
And I have to say, I own multiple backpacks, many of Five Eleven's

40
00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,160
different ones, but as far as a daypack, this one was the most impressive.

41
00:02:41,620 --> 00:02:43,560
There are so many different compartments.

42
00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,120
The way it sits on your back is incredibly comfortable.

43
00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,200
If you are a concealed carry person, there's also a spot for a weapon.

44
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,000
So they've thought of multiple, multiple things that a man or woman

45
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:55,500
would have to do on a daily basis.

46
00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,400
That is in addition to all of the products that I talk about a lot.

47
00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:05,080
Their uniforms fit for men or fit for women in the first responder professions.

48
00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,880
The footwear that they offer, whether it's the Norris sneaker or the Atlas

49
00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,720
system that is designed for foot health and therefore knees and back and

50
00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:14,480
hips and shoulders and neck.

51
00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,820
As a civilian, I live in a lot of their clothes as well.

52
00:03:16,820 --> 00:03:17,960
Their jeans stretch.

53
00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:19,620
You can actually squat down in them.

54
00:03:19,820 --> 00:03:23,620
We live in Florida here, so I wear a lot of their shorts, which again, very, very

55
00:03:23,620 --> 00:03:26,900
lightweight material, you can get it wet and it will dry almost immediately.

56
00:03:27,500 --> 00:03:29,760
And then moving to the fitness and tactical space.

57
00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:31,800
I used to have just a regular weight vest.

58
00:03:32,140 --> 00:03:36,400
Recently, I switched to a Five Eleven vest and actually bought ballistic plates as well.

59
00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,880
My thinking was simply if I'm going to have a vest, why not have one that protects me as well?

60
00:03:40,900 --> 00:03:43,680
And that tack vest is trusted by law enforcement and the law enforcement.

61
00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,080
It's trusted by law enforcement all around the country.

62
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,120
So I mentioned they were going to offer you a discount code.

63
00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:56,560
So if you go to fiveeleventactical.com and enter the code SHIELD15, S-H-I-E-L-D-1-5,

64
00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:01,600
you'll get 15% off, not just that one purchase, but every time you visit their store.

65
00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,700
And if you want to learn more about Five Eleven, their mission, their products,

66
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:11,040
then listen to episode 338 of the Behind the Shield podcast with the CEO and

67
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,040
founder Francisco Morales.

68
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,440
Welcome to episode 494 of Behind the Shield podcast.

69
00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,040
As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to

70
00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,720
welcome on the show Denise Olson.

71
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:30,920
Now Denise is a nurse, a yoga teacher, and she's the widow of Jeff Olson,

72
00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,720
one of the 343 firefighters killed on 9-11.

73
00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:40,720
So we discuss a host of topics from her early life, her perspective on health

74
00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:46,000
care, meeting Jeff and his incredible story into the fire service, the events

75
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:50,240
of that day, and then also processing that grief and raising children after

76
00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:51,640
such traumatic event.

77
00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,480
Before we get to that conversation, as I say, every single week, please just take

78
00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,680
a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this podcast on.

79
00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,640
Subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

80
00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:07,480
Every five star rating this show gets truly does elevate this podcast, making

81
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,480
it easier for others to find.

82
00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,160
This is a free library of almost 500 episodes now.

83
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,960
So all I ask in return is that you help pay it forward and share these

84
00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,720
incredible men and women's stories so I can get them to everyone else who

85
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:22,880
needs to hear them.

86
00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:28,040
So with that being said, I introduce to you, Denise Olson.

87
00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:47,800
Enjoy.

88
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,920
Well, Denise, I want to start by saying thank you so much for taking the time

89
00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:52,920
to come on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

90
00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:55,160
Thank you for having me.

91
00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:56,560
It's an honor to be here.

92
00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,400
So it's crazy because we've been connected online for a while now, and

93
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,360
then we just had a little discussion prior to this.

94
00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:09,040
And I realized that we're connected a number of ways through OEW operation

95
00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,640
during Warrior, through the Give team here in Orlando, through GoRuck.

96
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,800
So I'm really looking forward to this conversation because obviously the

97
00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:19,840
awesome humans that you surround yourself with seem to be the similar

98
00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:20,720
humans that I do.

99
00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:23,360
I know.

100
00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:28,720
I think that there's always a golden thread, I like to call it, that brings

101
00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,560
certain people into your life.

102
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:35,280
And somehow, even though everyone says the world is so big, it becomes really

103
00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:40,880
small when you have a specific passion or focus.

104
00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:41,480
Yeah.

105
00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,480
Well, especially, and I've been talking about this a lot recently, when you

106
00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,000
find yourself amongst groups that we just mentioned, and yet you turn the

107
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,760
TV on and there's division and hate and everything, and you're like, no,

108
00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,400
yes, those people exist.

109
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,440
I don't know why you're giving them all this TV time, but there are so many

110
00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:03,600
great people if you just, as you said, choose who you actually spend time with,

111
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,520
choose who you get your information from.

112
00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:10,120
You'll be amazed how many inspiring and kind and compassionate human beings

113
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,680
are in this country and then overseas as well.

114
00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:22,320
I think that if people turn their TVs off and spend time on their TV,

115
00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:28,280
and spend more time actually getting to know the stories of other individuals,

116
00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,400
there wouldn't be so much division.

117
00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:40,120
I don't, that entire period of, I mean, I guess, quarantine, the politics around it,

118
00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:47,360
I was very specific in how I curated my social media, who I spoke to, the

119
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:53,920
conversations that I had, the conversations I avoided, because it's important.

120
00:07:54,200 --> 00:08:01,400
Even though we're only one person, I'm only one person, I believe that

121
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,200
there's a ripple effect in everything.

122
00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:13,280
So if I can hold my space as an individual and just come from my heart,

123
00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:19,880
not looking at race, gender, or any of these other things that they use to try

124
00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:27,400
to divide us, then it just spreads out organically.

125
00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:28,800
You don't even have to try.

126
00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,000
Yeah, I agree completely.

127
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:35,720
Well, I want to get into that little conversation at a certain point in this

128
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,240
chronological walkthrough that we're going to do, but let's start at the very

129
00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:43,000
beginning. Well, firstly, before we even do that, where on planet Earth are we

130
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:43,920
finding you today?

131
00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,760
Today, I'm at home in Manisquam, New Jersey.

132
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,480
Brilliant. Okay, so then let's start at the beginning.

133
00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:51,560
So where were you born?

134
00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,520
And then tell me about your family dynamic, what your parents did, how many

135
00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:55,080
siblings?

136
00:08:55,800 --> 00:09:02,800
Okay, I was born on Staten Island, suburb of New York City.

137
00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:08,600
I have one sister, one brother, I'm the oldest.

138
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:17,600
My parents, my father is a financial person.

139
00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:24,520
He works in, he's retired now, but he worked in a lot of major hospitals

140
00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:25,640
throughout New York.

141
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,120
And my mom did medical billing.

142
00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,000
She was a manager.

143
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:37,800
When she worked, she retired at a pretty young age.

144
00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:46,400
So my family dynamic, I would say that we were average middle class family.

145
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:51,200
I went to Catholic school my entire life.

146
00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:56,320
And when I say entire life, I don't just mean grammar school, but I went to

147
00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,400
Catholic high school.

148
00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:06,400
I went to Catholic nursing school, which will come into play later, which is

149
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:07,400
why I bring it up.

150
00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,600
I call myself a reformed Catholic.

151
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:12,000
Yeah.

152
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:21,000
So I guess we were really average.

153
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,800
I don't have too much to say about my family.

154
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:29,000
My parents went to work every day.

155
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:34,000
We went to school and we didn't really do a lot of traveling.

156
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:43,000
It was kind of like, we just went outside and played with our friends.

157
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,600
There's not a whole lot to say about it.

158
00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,400
So, well, an interesting perspective.

159
00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:53,000
So you have a father who works on the financial side of hospitals, and

160
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,200
just as a complete tangent, I love tangents.

161
00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,200
That's why I like these organic walkthroughs.

162
00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:07,600
Did he ever talk about any perspective of the pros and cons of the way we do

163
00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:09,000
medicine in this country?

164
00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,600
And again, I'm not demonizing or anything, but there's definitely a

165
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,400
profit-based element that is different to the national health that I came

166
00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:16,400
from in England.

167
00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:22,400
And what I've seen through my eyes is sadly when, you know, I think

168
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,600
when there's money to be made, sometimes you deviate from health and

169
00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,000
you focus more on the bottom line.

170
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,000
Without loading the question, did he ever have any kind of philosophies

171
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:39,400
or perspectives on what we do well and what we could maybe do better

172
00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:40,600
in the US specifically?

173
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:47,400
It's an interesting question because my dad is a numbers guy and it was,

174
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,800
you know, profits the name of the game for him, period.

175
00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:58,600
I think that that changed when, or I should say he softens around the

176
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:08,000
edges with that when they both retired and you're sort of relying on

177
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,800
the health care system as it is.

178
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:16,400
You know, he doesn't, they both have, I believe it's Medicare, right,

179
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:23,200
for the elderly and having to pay for your own insurance if you want

180
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:28,600
to have a better plan and what's offered to you and however that works.

181
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,400
I know that that was a struggle for them.

182
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:36,600
Medication is expensive and we're fortunate in our family to be able to

183
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:42,400
afford those things, but he does see how difficult it is for many, many

184
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:50,800
people in that specific age range to be able to obtain adequate health

185
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,800
care and prescription medications.

186
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:55,800
Yeah, well, thank you for that.

187
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,000
I mean, it's just so interesting hearing people's stories.

188
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,200
You know, we get told these nice little neatly presented arguments

189
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,800
on certain TV stations and you know, it's just important and I think that's just it.

190
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:12,200
I love the phrase, they did the best with what they had because

191
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,800
that's it, we can't demonize the past if you know, in the environment,

192
00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:20,600
that was the norm, but it's a very powerful perspective when people look

193
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:26,400
back and go, ah, now I get it, now I see and coming from a country which

194
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,200
sadly has had their health care system stripped by politics, you know,

195
00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:35,600
rather than bolstered and you know, strengthen the concept of everyone

196
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:40,600
in the nation contributing to making sure that everyone is taken care of.

197
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:45,800
I think that's a very insert, you know, religion here philosophy, you know,

198
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,200
I think it's a philosophy that comes from kindness and compassion and if you don't

199
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:50,200
get to use it, that's a good thing.

200
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,600
That means you didn't get hit by a car or get cancer.

201
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,000
Beautiful, good for you.

202
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,400
But in the meantime, you take care of the people that need it, you know,

203
00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:03,400
and I think it also fosters a more proactive view of health in general

204
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:08,400
versus if there's money to be made, your best customer is the sick individual

205
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,600
and I think that, you know, that kind of shows itself on the health of our

206
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,400
nation at the moment, which I think COVID really held a mirror to.

207
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:19,600
I am with you 100% on that.

208
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:26,600
I know that in other countries, preventative care is the top tier of their

209
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:30,800
health care system, which unfortunately is not the case in the United States.

210
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:36,200
And I wanted to just jump back to the question about my dad.

211
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:43,600
When I was younger, I mean, our health care system has changed significantly

212
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,000
in the past 50 years.

213
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,800
So when I was younger, you had a general practitioner, your entire family

214
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,600
went to the same doctor, right?

215
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,000
There were no specialists.

216
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,600
You didn't have to get a pre-approval, just went to the doctor.

217
00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:01,800
They looked you over and whatever the issue was, was taken care of.

218
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:12,800
Now, because of insurances and all of that, a doctor can't afford to have

219
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:14,000
their own practice.

220
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:21,800
So there's so many groups, you lose the personalization, you lose the

221
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:23,400
continuity of care.

222
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:32,400
And as a nurse, I was able to see all of that as it was changing.

223
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:39,000
So I agree that being able to have a health care system where everyone is

224
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,000
taken care of is important.

225
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,000
I don't think we've reached that yet.

226
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,600
It's hard.

227
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:54,800
It's hard in a capitalist society to ask people that are raised with the

228
00:15:54,800 --> 00:16:05,000
mindset that if you have something, there's not enough for me, right, to

229
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,800
be responsible for people that they don't know.

230
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:14,600
That's what I think creates all the arguments around the transition that

231
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,800
we're trying to make happen in healthcare.

232
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:24,800
But somehow right now, it's like the working middle class are the ones

233
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,000
that suffer the most under our current healthcare system.

234
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,600
There's a lot of issues with it.

235
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:32,600
Yeah.

236
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,600
Well, it seems as well that we have, like you said, Medicare where we do

237
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:37,600
take care of the elderly.

238
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:38,600
We have Medicaid.

239
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:44,400
We take care of people that most of whom actually need it, some of whom,

240
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,000
of course, there's an abuse of everything.

241
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,200
And those are the examples that are always brought to the front of the room.

242
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,600
But negating the fact that whether it's welfare, whether it's Medicaid,

243
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,400
there are many, many people that it really helps them out of a tough place.

244
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,600
And then they get back on track.

245
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,400
But then you have the VA.

246
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:02,600
We take care of our veterans.

247
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,600
And again, it may not be perfect from what I've heard as well.

248
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,800
There's a lot of pills being thrown at those men and women rather than

249
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,200
proactive, preventative care.

250
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,200
But we have that philosophy in place.

251
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,400
But what's really, we get a very strong perspective because as you said,

252
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,600
nurse, doctor, first responder, we get to see behind the curtain.

253
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:26,800
We get to see the true health of our nation and the true efficiency of our

254
00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:28,200
current system.

255
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:33,600
But also in the first responder community, police, fire, EMS, once you're done,

256
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,000
you're done.

257
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:35,800
Bye.

258
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:36,800
Here's all the injuries.

259
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:37,600
Here's all the mental health.

260
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:38,200
Good luck.

261
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:39,600
Your insurance stops tomorrow.

262
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:47,000
So I think there's no better group of people than the responders and the

263
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,600
medical profession to really understand like, oh, okay, as soon as you're

264
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:52,600
done with me, that's it.

265
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,400
You kind of flung out the back door.

266
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:55,800
And it sounds harsh, but it is what it is.

267
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,200
There's no VA for first responders.

268
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:04,400
So I think if we want to advocate and want to change, imagine if you didn't

269
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:09,000
have to worry about every profession that you respect, that you knew that

270
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,200
they were going to be taken care of throughout the rest of their life.

271
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:17,600
But right now, it kills me that the first person you see isn't a doctor or

272
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:18,000
a nurse.

273
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,000
It's an admin clerk asking for your social security number.

274
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,600
I just think that is the opposite of what Socrates and I mean, so

275
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:30,400
Hippocrates and some of these ancient minds were predicting, you know,

276
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:31,600
health care was going to be.

277
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:33,200
Yeah.

278
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:39,200
I have so many thoughts around all of that.

279
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:40,200
I'm fortunate.

280
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:48,400
The fire department, they take care of us even after retirement.

281
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:57,800
It may not be perfect, but there's I have health care that I don't actually

282
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:06,000
have any money for until I die from my just from my husband's short amount

283
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,800
of service in the fire department.

284
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:19,600
But getting back to that, I don't even think it's about it's about people

285
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:20,200
that I respect.

286
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,800
I feel like everyone should be entitled to adequate health care.

287
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,600
This isn't something that you should even have to earn, right?

288
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:33,000
You should just be able to go to a doctor if you're sick and get taken

289
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:33,600
care of.

290
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:44,200
There's really different, I want to call it almost like a hierarchy of

291
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:52,200
care and like you were saying, the VA, it's there.

292
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:53,100
Is it adequate?

293
00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:55,000
I honestly don't think so.

294
00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:00,000
So I think a lot of these things sound good on paper and the philosophy

295
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,400
behind it is excellent.

296
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:06,800
I don't think that the practice actually reflects the philosophy.

297
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:11,600
But we're working.

298
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,800
We're working towards making it better, right?

299
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:20,000
There's been a lot of awareness brought especially to the VA and I guess

300
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,700
their mental health support mostly because the VA does have some of the

301
00:20:25,700 --> 00:20:34,500
best doctors in our country, but it's the wait times and the ability to

302
00:20:34,500 --> 00:20:40,000
be seen and treated and especially when it comes to mental health issues.

303
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:41,900
Yeah, no, and I agree completely.

304
00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:47,200
I wasn't saying that you should earn the health care.

305
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,500
I think if it's a hard sell, you can use those groups to push your point.

306
00:20:50,500 --> 00:20:54,600
But my thing is no, absolutely everyone should have it and I'm 47 years

307
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:54,700
old.

308
00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:55,700
I don't even have a doctor.

309
00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:58,100
So I'm not recipient of this at all.

310
00:20:58,100 --> 00:21:02,000
And I'm advocating for it because I think it's the right thing to do.

311
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,300
It's an ethical thing.

312
00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:05,300
Isn't it funny?

313
00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:09,200
I don't actually have a family doctor either and that goes back to what

314
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:14,500
I was saying earlier that we used to have a family doctor that knew every,

315
00:21:14,500 --> 00:21:21,300
you know, knew the you didn't go to a pediatrician or or pulmonologist or

316
00:21:21,300 --> 00:21:24,100
you would just go to your family doctor.

317
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:31,300
Now you have to be seen by a specialist for everything which has its

318
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:41,000
positives, but it really does lack the personal feel of someone caring

319
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,000
about what's best not just for you, but for your entire family.

320
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:51,500
Yeah, so my my grandfather was 99 years old and riddled with cancer and

321
00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:56,500
the same family physician we'd had growing up as kids was the same man

322
00:21:56,500 --> 00:22:00,500
that came to the house and you know, visited him till he finally passed

323
00:22:00,500 --> 00:22:02,000
away and that was all under National Health.

324
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,300
They had those you were talking about like the Medicaid thing.

325
00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:08,700
They had the over and above extra insurance.

326
00:22:08,700 --> 00:22:11,600
They paid for their whole life and they basically got priced out when

327
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:12,600
they actually got to the age.

328
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:13,900
You were really going to start using it.

329
00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:17,000
They couldn't afford the premiums and they paid, you know, God knows

330
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,900
how much that tens and tens of thousands of pounds and then for

331
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:23,100
nothing, you know, they basically shut him down.

332
00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:26,700
So all that great care was through the NHS.

333
00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:29,500
So I always tell people like if you hear these stories of people being

334
00:22:29,500 --> 00:22:34,700
written off a 99 year old man riddled with cancer that's if you're going

335
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:39,000
to write someone off as him and he got as good a care as I've ever seen

336
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,900
in any country on planet Earth through the National Health.

337
00:22:41,900 --> 00:22:46,600
So like you said that original local family physician, you know,

338
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,900
understanding the family dynamic and that inquires, you know, funding

339
00:22:49,900 --> 00:22:51,600
and staffing and all these things too.

340
00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:55,700
But I mean I saw it with my own eyes as a child through the family physician

341
00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:59,800
all the way through to to my grandfather passing when I held his hand,

342
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,800
you know, and then seeing the care of them visiting my grandmother for a

343
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,500
couple of weeks after that which you don't see here at all.

344
00:23:06,500 --> 00:23:09,600
So I know that is so beautiful.

345
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:16,200
It really changes the the experience of and the energetics around

346
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,600
being ill for everyone.

347
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:26,700
It elevates, you know, you have there's there's a true compassion.

348
00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:30,600
There's a true connection between the doctor and the patient and the

349
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:36,100
doctor and the family and then all of that just even if it's an ends

350
00:23:36,100 --> 00:23:38,800
of life issue, it brings peace.

351
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:44,400
It brings comfort rather than that sterile feeling of being in a hospital

352
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,400
bright lights, you know, tubes all over the place.

353
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:56,300
So yeah, that's really that's actually a beautiful story or experience.

354
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,200
Yeah, no, it was and he got to got to pass away, you know, in his

355
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:00,900
family home.

356
00:24:00,900 --> 00:24:04,900
So and there you know, there are so many amazing nurses and doctors

357
00:24:04,900 --> 00:24:05,300
and everything.

358
00:24:05,300 --> 00:24:08,500
So I want to make sure you know, it's it's great in the environment

359
00:24:08,500 --> 00:24:11,500
for them to become the best version of themselves to spend the quality

360
00:24:11,500 --> 00:24:13,500
time with the patient the proactive measures.

361
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:16,100
So we don't have so many patients in the first place, you know, so

362
00:24:16,100 --> 00:24:20,000
they can put more resources to the people that are truly fighting

363
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,900
things that weren't preventable which I think, you know, would

364
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:25,400
minimize a huge amount of the issues that we deal with.

365
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,100
So yeah, but it is, you know, I'm not just soapbox in it, you know,

366
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:31,800
these are personal stories that I saw.

367
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:36,200
So, you know, you hear some of the demonization of the NHS from our

368
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:40,300
own people from overseas and you know, I disagree a hundred percent

369
00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:40,600
disagree.

370
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,900
I think it's a beautiful philosophy if this funded properly.

371
00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:44,000
I agree.

372
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:44,900
I agree.

373
00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:48,700
I know every time I can't even when I bring that conversation up

374
00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:52,400
with my father, he's like he wants socialized medicine.

375
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,000
He starts to get crazy.

376
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,300
Yeah, well look at the labeling socialized medicine sounds like

377
00:24:57,300 --> 00:25:02,900
Lenin came up with it, you know, so I know you think it's funny

378
00:25:02,900 --> 00:25:08,700
because that goes back to the original question about his ideas

379
00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:12,700
around around our health care system.

380
00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:15,400
Funny.

381
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:15,800
Yeah.

382
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,500
Well, that was a hell of a tangent, but it's a powerful one.

383
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:20,200
I think it's great that we got to discuss it.

384
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:24,600
So with returning to your timeline, you know, we're going to talk

385
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,900
about your most recent adventure, which is going to involve, you

386
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:29,500
know, a certain amount of exercise.

387
00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:32,800
So when you were in school age, were you an athlete back then?

388
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,200
I was.

389
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:41,200
I don't think I never considered myself a I never considered myself

390
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,600
an athlete, which is funny because I was always playing something,

391
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:50,200
but I don't think I accept I have this.

392
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:56,800
I hate to say it, but I have like this perfectionist personality.

393
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:01,700
So even though I'm so laid-back, it's sort of this internal

394
00:26:01,700 --> 00:26:03,300
dialogue that I have with myself.

395
00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:08,000
So if I'm not the best or really good at something, I don't even

396
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,300
so I played basketball.

397
00:26:11,300 --> 00:26:15,600
Gosh, like majority of my life.

398
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:16,900
It was never great.

399
00:26:16,900 --> 00:26:21,200
Not that tall, but I played.

400
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:26,100
I just went to my high school reunion on Friday and I forgot all

401
00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:31,500
about this, but I was on the inaugural soccer team for my high

402
00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:34,400
school terrible at that, but still played.

403
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,700
Played softball.

404
00:26:37,700 --> 00:26:40,800
You know, I was always doing I was always doing something and I

405
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,300
was always been active.

406
00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:43,600
Brilliant.

407
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,100
Now when you were at that school age, what were you dreaming of

408
00:26:46,100 --> 00:26:47,200
becoming career wise?

409
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:59,800
I actually thought that I knew that I wanted to serve in some

410
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:00,900
way shape or form.

411
00:27:00,900 --> 00:27:04,200
So I was it was either a teacher.

412
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:14,300
I'm also a big nerd with books and reading and so I love I

413
00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:15,600
love school.

414
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:20,400
I mean, obviously I'm still doing a mentorship now at my age,

415
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:25,800
but so it was either a teacher or a nurse.

416
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:32,300
I went through this short period where I was like, oh, maybe

417
00:27:32,300 --> 00:27:38,800
maybe I want to be a stockbroker or something the glamour of

418
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:47,800
working in New York City and but I love science and I'm pretty

419
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,500
good in I used to be pretty good in math as I get older.

420
00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:56,600
That's that functions whinzling life and I've always I've always

421
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:57,800
been a caretaker.

422
00:27:57,800 --> 00:27:59,900
I've always been a caretaker.

423
00:27:59,900 --> 00:28:07,200
When we were young, if somebody got hurt my what you know, my

424
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:08,500
sister we go bike riding.

425
00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:10,500
My sister would fall off her bike or whatever.

426
00:28:10,500 --> 00:28:14,400
I would be cleaning her cuts out bandaging them up.

427
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:21,200
So yeah, those that was pretty much those were those were my

428
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,100
early childhood dreams.

429
00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:29,800
The other thing which not many people know and I don't really

430
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,800
speak of it often because it's kind of funny.

431
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,400
I want to say I was in the fifth grade.

432
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,100
I thought I wanted to be a nun.

433
00:28:40,100 --> 00:28:43,100
I told you I went to Catholic school for my whole life.

434
00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:47,900
So I thought I wanted to be a nun and I made the big mistake

435
00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:52,600
of telling the nun that was my teacher that I was thinking of

436
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:58,500
that and I don't even know how long this lasted but I had to

437
00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:04,800
go to the convent every day with her say decades of the Rosary

438
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,900
clean the convent and I mean I loved being there because it

439
00:29:09,900 --> 00:29:15,200
was so peaceful and this this also there are certain seeds

440
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,100
that I think are planted in us before we even get here and

441
00:29:18,100 --> 00:29:22,000
this is part of like that spiritual energy that is so strong

442
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,700
in me now when I was young like I loved being in the convent

443
00:29:25,700 --> 00:29:31,200
and I loved the rituals of you know, they say prayers at

444
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:32,100
certain times.

445
00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:37,400
They're so devoted but then I found boys and I was like

446
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:38,600
forget this.

447
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:39,800
There were boys in the convent.

448
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,100
Well, I didn't find them in the convent.

449
00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:43,800
I found them outside the convent.

450
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,300
I was like who who the hell wants to do that?

451
00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:51,400
So that was the end of it.

452
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:52,300
Brilliant.

453
00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:56,200
Well, when we'll get into I kind of sense something with

454
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,000
that spiritual path and when the podcast that I heard before

455
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,300
so I definitely want to make sure I visit that just before

456
00:30:02,300 --> 00:30:08,600
we move on a recurring theme with people who have struggled

457
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,300
mental health wise and I'm not saying that you particularly

458
00:30:12,300 --> 00:30:15,200
have as far as you know where you found yourself in that

459
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,900
journey, but it's always a good question to ask.

460
00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:21,100
I think before we move on a lot of the common denominators

461
00:30:21,100 --> 00:30:23,800
some people that did find themselves in the dark place was

462
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,700
an element of childhood trauma and that could be something

463
00:30:26,700 --> 00:30:27,500
very severe.

464
00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:30,900
It could be not feeling love could be one parent always at

465
00:30:30,900 --> 00:30:33,500
work, you know, whatever it was when you look back with that

466
00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:36,400
kind of mental health, you know perspective that you have now

467
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,700
are there any elements of your childhood that you consider

468
00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:40,400
traumatic?

469
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:41,900
Oh gosh.

470
00:30:41,900 --> 00:30:50,600
Yeah, I mean I don't ever I don't like to speak about this

471
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:58,100
because I would hate for my parents to feel that the

472
00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:03,800
environment that they created for me was less than stellar

473
00:31:05,900 --> 00:31:08,800
and it goes back to that saying they did the best with what

474
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:18,200
they had but my mother grew up in a very very very dysfunctional

475
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,400
family riddled with addiction and abuse.

476
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:27,600
My father is actually my stepfather.

477
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,900
My parents were divorced when I was two don't have a relationship

478
00:31:32,900 --> 00:31:34,700
with my biological father.

479
00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:42,400
And so growing up there was a lot of drinking in my home.

480
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:53,800
There was a lot of screaming yelling just poor communication.

481
00:31:53,800 --> 00:32:02,900
I want to say lots of generational trauma lots of generational

482
00:32:02,900 --> 00:32:08,500
trauma just handed down and I honestly didn't know that there

483
00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:14,000
was anything wrong with the way that I even the way that

484
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:20,000
communication took place in my house or I wouldn't I mean it

485
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,000
was violent in its own way not physically violent emotionally

486
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,600
abusive for sure.

487
00:32:27,700 --> 00:32:35,500
So I didn't realize that other families didn't live that way

488
00:32:35,500 --> 00:32:39,600
until I was older and I started going to you know hanging out

489
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,500
at friends houses and saying oh wow.

490
00:32:42,500 --> 00:32:43,600
Yeah, okay.

491
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:50,200
This isn't the way everybody operates and not like I said

492
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,900
the caretaker part that's part of it times protect your younger

493
00:32:53,900 --> 00:32:58,100
siblings even if it's just from the loud verbal arguments that

494
00:32:58,100 --> 00:33:02,300
are happening in another room that are really frightening for

495
00:33:02,300 --> 00:33:03,200
young children.

496
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:10,800
So, yes, I will say that there was definitely trauma in my

497
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:11,500
childhood.

498
00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:14,500
Yeah, well, it's something that I've just been educated to

499
00:33:14,500 --> 00:33:18,900
myself the last few years and I started asking initially it

500
00:33:18,900 --> 00:33:20,700
would come out and then I started focusing a little bit

501
00:33:20,700 --> 00:33:23,200
more just kind of opening that door and all of a sudden like

502
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,300
guest after guest after guest and like I said it could everyone

503
00:33:26,300 --> 00:33:27,600
has their own version of trauma.

504
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,700
It could be something absolutely extreme like I had a boy

505
00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:34,000
soldier on the show from Sierra Leone or it could be just

506
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,100
simply not feeling loved being the middle child, you know,

507
00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:41,100
whatever it was, but I just finished watching a brand-new

508
00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:46,200
documentary Dr. Gabor Mate just made and again, he's huge on

509
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:46,500
trauma.

510
00:33:46,500 --> 00:33:47,800
I've tried to get him.

511
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,100
I got an initial he was too busy, but I'm going to keep

512
00:33:50,100 --> 00:33:52,400
pursuing him because I think he'd be amazing for this audience.

513
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,100
But yeah, I mean, I don't think people realize how much that

514
00:33:57,100 --> 00:34:00,100
fact is in and when we talk about mental health in the first

515
00:34:00,100 --> 00:34:03,200
bond or community the conversation that very very few

516
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,200
people have is what did you bring in before you put that

517
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,700
badge on your chest, you know, because that really to me then

518
00:34:09,700 --> 00:34:12,100
amplifies whatever you see and do in your career.

519
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:20,600
I can I can speak on this for hours and important things to

520
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,900
remember with trauma is that like you were saying what's

521
00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:29,000
traumatic to one person trauma is not a specific there's no

522
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:34,300
specific definition because we can both experience the same

523
00:34:34,300 --> 00:34:36,800
event you might find it traumatic.

524
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,700
I might not so it isn't the event itself.

525
00:34:40,700 --> 00:34:44,000
It's how we actually process the event.

526
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,800
The other thing that's important is that trauma is cumulative.

527
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:54,100
So like you're saying if you experience trauma as a child

528
00:34:54,100 --> 00:34:58,200
and these don't have to be major trauma is they can be

529
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,100
small traumas.

530
00:35:01,100 --> 00:35:08,200
But they do accumulate and I did a research paper on military

531
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:16,600
sexual trauma and the numbers are staggering staggering the

532
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,100
and it doesn't just happen to women.

533
00:35:19,100 --> 00:35:21,500
It's also it also happens to men.

534
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:29,100
And the common denominator in most in the majority of the

535
00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:37,500
cases was a childhood that included a history of sexual

536
00:35:37,500 --> 00:35:38,100
abuse.

537
00:35:39,100 --> 00:35:45,700
So you're 100% right when you're looking and not just not

538
00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:49,300
just that first responder communities, but any human if

539
00:35:49,300 --> 00:35:55,100
there was a childhood history of trauma there's likely to be

540
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:02,600
a more pronounced response to traumas that you experience as

541
00:36:02,900 --> 00:36:03,800
an adult.

542
00:36:05,100 --> 00:36:05,900
Absolutely.

543
00:36:05,900 --> 00:36:07,900
Yeah, I think that's the problem is we focus on an event

544
00:36:07,900 --> 00:36:11,500
and we're going to get to your one of your acute events in

545
00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:12,000
a second.

546
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,500
But yeah, and then the cumulative one is another one,

547
00:36:14,500 --> 00:36:17,000
you know, that's what's so sad with some of these PTSD

548
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,500
presumptive laws at the moment.

549
00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:21,700
These men and women have to prove like prove.

550
00:36:21,700 --> 00:36:25,100
Oh, I was at I was at the World Trade in September, you

551
00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:27,700
know, 9-11 and that's my acute event.

552
00:36:27,700 --> 00:36:31,200
Well, then, you know, you've got everyone else who was

553
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,800
obviously very fortunate not to be there, but they did 10

554
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,200
20 30 years of regular duty in fire police CMS who as you

555
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,700
said are accumulating these traumas all the time and you've

556
00:36:40,700 --> 00:36:41,600
got sleep deprivation.

557
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,600
You got all these compounding elements organizational stress

558
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,400
huge one, you know, working for people that just are magnifying

559
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,500
the stress, but there's no one event to say, oh, it was this

560
00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:53,000
dead baby.

561
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:53,300
It did it.

562
00:36:53,300 --> 00:36:56,000
We've all had dead babies, you know, we all have but you

563
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,600
know, I think that's the misconception is it's what you

564
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,300
saw which I disagree completely.

565
00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:03,200
That is one tiny piece of a much bigger puzzle.

566
00:37:04,300 --> 00:37:06,700
Yeah, I mean even working as a nurse.

567
00:37:06,700 --> 00:37:08,700
I took for granted.

568
00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:10,200
I didn't have the knowledge.

569
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,700
I knew all about physical trauma, right?

570
00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:16,800
But I didn't have the experience or the knowledge around

571
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:24,300
emotional trauma and I really and I think that this is so

572
00:37:24,300 --> 00:37:28,600
common in first responder community or health care workers

573
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:33,200
military the things that you see every day are your norm.

574
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,000
You don't even realize that you're that you are being traumatized,

575
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:37,200
right?

576
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,200
So I worked in the emergency room.

577
00:37:39,500 --> 00:37:44,100
You see one trauma after another.

578
00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:53,600
There's a certain well, for example, we I can this was like

579
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:59,000
a horrific experience, but I had a young child come in that

580
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,200
had been horribly abused that ended up dying, right?

581
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:10,600
And tending to this to this dying baby while the parents

582
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:16,900
are there that no did this to them, but you can't go, you

583
00:38:16,900 --> 00:38:18,800
know, you're innocent until you proven guilty.

584
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:25,100
They bring the kid in and the child the mother was pregnant

585
00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:30,700
on top of it, which is like, you know, it's so emotional on

586
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:31,700
so many levels.

587
00:38:31,700 --> 00:38:33,100
It brings up all of this anger.

588
00:38:33,100 --> 00:38:36,100
You're trying to save this kid and the parents are there

589
00:38:36,100 --> 00:38:37,900
crying, but you did this.

590
00:38:37,900 --> 00:38:40,800
I mean, so it's so horrific.

591
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,000
The child ends up dying, but my shift isn't over.

592
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:49,000
So I don't get to sit there and that that's it.

593
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,300
That was a huge, you know, that that was a huge event.

594
00:38:52,300 --> 00:38:57,800
You don't get to sit there and cry or or feel bad for your

595
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:58,100
son.

596
00:38:58,100 --> 00:38:59,500
Even you just can't process it.

597
00:38:59,500 --> 00:39:02,500
You have to compartmentalize it and continue working and

598
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:03,900
move on to the next trauma.

599
00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:14,100
So how did I didn't have if I was doing that job now the way

600
00:39:14,100 --> 00:39:19,000
I would handle that would be so completely different from

601
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:23,900
the way that we handled it regularly back then like we

602
00:39:23,900 --> 00:39:27,000
would all go out after work and have a drink, you know,

603
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:35,500
completely unhealthy, completely lacking coping skills, but

604
00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:37,800
it's your everyday life.

605
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,200
So you don't say to yourself, wow, that was traumatic.

606
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,200
You don't think that it's just like, wow, that was a shitty

607
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,600
day at work, you know, and I think that that's especially

608
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,100
the military when you're deployed and your friend gets

609
00:39:52,100 --> 00:39:59,400
blown up and you know, you find out that they that they that

610
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,900
they died and you don't even have time to grieve.

611
00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:05,700
You kind of have to just shut it off and continue on.

612
00:40:05,700 --> 00:40:09,900
What's crazy as well is that you lock these memories away

613
00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:10,800
and I'll give you a perfect example.

614
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,600
Just you telling that story and there's many I had this

615
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,700
horrific like week week and a half where I hadn't really

616
00:40:18,700 --> 00:40:22,200
had much pediatric trauma at all and then I had, you know,

617
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,300
two abuse babies that both died.

618
00:40:26,100 --> 00:40:27,800
But then there was another one a few years later that I

619
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,500
totally forgotten about and I remember I can't even see

620
00:40:31,500 --> 00:40:33,900
the child's face now, but I think it was like toddler

621
00:40:33,900 --> 00:40:37,100
age or not mistaken and there was something like the mother

622
00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:40,500
said it slipped in the shower and that's why it was, you

623
00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:43,100
know, unconscious and everything and that poor little

624
00:40:43,100 --> 00:40:44,300
thing passed away as well.

625
00:40:44,300 --> 00:40:48,900
But again, there was a huge huge, you know, chance of that

626
00:40:48,900 --> 00:40:49,800
was abuse as well.

627
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,000
So, you know, that was and then we cleaned the gear and

628
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,100
went back into service, you know, all of these had a

629
00:40:55,100 --> 00:40:58,300
shaken baby kid that stayed in a convalescent home for a

630
00:40:58,300 --> 00:41:00,000
few years and died in my arms.

631
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,500
You know, I think it was four when he died and you clean

632
00:41:03,500 --> 00:41:05,500
your gear and you go back to you know, to service.

633
00:41:05,500 --> 00:41:09,200
So all these things just dig into you and you know, you

634
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:14,700
don't process them and you know, excuse me, there's a

635
00:41:14,700 --> 00:41:18,300
Mexican saying it says they tried to bury us.

636
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,400
They didn't know we were seeds and I love that like it's

637
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:22,900
going to come out eventually.

638
00:41:22,900 --> 00:41:24,400
I just read that recently.

639
00:41:24,700 --> 00:41:27,600
I don't know where I read it, but I just read that that is

640
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,500
so beautiful.

641
00:41:29,900 --> 00:41:34,100
You just made me think of something that with trauma that

642
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:39,800
I use constantly because being a yoga teacher and all

643
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:46,200
that but it stays in your body like you can you might you

644
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:51,000
might not ever be able to recall specific events that

645
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,200
have that have happened to you, but they are stored in

646
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,000
it all the nooks and crannies of your of your body.

647
00:41:58,300 --> 00:42:03,300
So I think this this leads into a whole other conversation

648
00:42:03,300 --> 00:42:06,300
about how you deal with trauma right because a lot of

649
00:42:06,300 --> 00:42:10,400
people myself included when we experience something that

650
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,500
is obviously traumatic and I mean this is usually something

651
00:42:14,500 --> 00:42:17,400
that brings you to your knees like life altering where

652
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:24,000
you decide to go get help and the first help that we all

653
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,300
usually reach for healthy.

654
00:42:26,700 --> 00:42:29,900
I mean, you know besides all the other things that we

655
00:42:29,900 --> 00:42:34,000
try to do to numb the pain is we look for a therapist

656
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:34,200
right?

657
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,700
That's the most common you need to go to therapy.

658
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,200
In my opinion and this has changed over the course of

659
00:42:42,300 --> 00:42:48,200
of the past 20 years and having so much exposure and

660
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:52,500
experience with trauma not just my own but others is that

661
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:58,200
talking only goes so far when you're treating trauma and

662
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:02,200
after that point you are simply retraumatizing the

663
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,700
per asking them to repeat certain stories over and over

664
00:43:05,700 --> 00:43:06,600
again, right?

665
00:43:07,100 --> 00:43:09,200
You're just embedding it deeper and deeper.

666
00:43:09,700 --> 00:43:11,400
You have to move your body.

667
00:43:11,500 --> 00:43:17,600
You have to move your body to get trauma out of it.

668
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,700
What you know to really bring it to the surface and

669
00:43:20,700 --> 00:43:22,100
and move past it.

670
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,800
Yeah, and it just aligns with with so many success stories

671
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,500
that I've heard whether it's Save a Warrior, you know,

672
00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:32,300
and they're they're doing a lot of the childhood trauma

673
00:43:32,300 --> 00:43:35,200
stuff, but they're also out doing obstacle courses and

674
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,600
you know all kinds of stuff whether it's equine therapy

675
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,200
whether it's the the rocks.

676
00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:42,700
I mean, you know, there's some diving groups.

677
00:43:42,700 --> 00:43:45,400
I mean you name it but again, like you said is combining

678
00:43:45,700 --> 00:43:48,300
therapy with movement and even I talked about this a

679
00:43:48,300 --> 00:43:53,000
lot Tom Hewitt is a guy who founded Surfers Not Street

680
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,700
Children in South Africa and what's beautiful is they

681
00:43:56,700 --> 00:43:58,100
take these kids and it's crazy.

682
00:43:58,100 --> 00:44:00,500
A lot of these kids live by the ocean, but they can't

683
00:44:00,500 --> 00:44:03,100
swim they kind of were taught that there were monsters

684
00:44:03,100 --> 00:44:03,700
in the ocean.

685
00:44:03,700 --> 00:44:06,600
So they get them swimming they get them surfing after

686
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:07,500
their session.

687
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,100
Then they sit on the beach.

688
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:09,900
They're tired.

689
00:44:09,900 --> 00:44:12,100
They've got those endorphins going, you know, the sun's

690
00:44:12,100 --> 00:44:17,200
on their skin and then they start doing the talk therapy.

691
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,500
So again, if you're doing one without the other it

692
00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:23,100
makes perfect sense that you're not going to get the

693
00:44:23,100 --> 00:44:26,400
whole holistic, you know healing experience and you

694
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:30,200
know, on top of that the healthier the body gets the

695
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,800
more there's a feeling of well-being and to me that

696
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,500
more that magnifies, you know healing even more than

697
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:43,500
there's there's a people people when they hear especially

698
00:44:43,500 --> 00:44:47,700
I'm so tired of hearing PTSD, but when you hear that

699
00:44:47,700 --> 00:44:53,700
phrase PTSD a lot of people have the idea that it is

700
00:44:53,700 --> 00:45:00,700
just in your mind and the truth of it is that it's a

701
00:45:00,700 --> 00:45:06,900
biological a neural it's a neurophysiological reaction,

702
00:45:07,100 --> 00:45:07,600
right?

703
00:45:07,900 --> 00:45:13,900
So the act of paddling I've a I have a dear friends of

704
00:45:13,900 --> 00:45:14,900
mine her name.

705
00:45:14,900 --> 00:45:17,800
I'll give her a shout out her name is Bonnie Owens and

706
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:22,200
she created and trademarked something called kayak

707
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:28,700
therapy and what she does she she is a trauma specialist

708
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,200
and she works a lot with first responders in the

709
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,300
military and she takes them out kayaking.

710
00:45:35,300 --> 00:45:37,800
It serves so many purposes right like you said, it's

711
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,500
the movement of the body but more than that is the

712
00:45:41,500 --> 00:45:45,000
simple right left movement the alternating of the

713
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:46,800
paddling that you're doing in kayaking.

714
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,500
It's the same thing that happens when you do a meditative

715
00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:55,800
walk or a rock or a yoga any of it that right left

716
00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:06,800
movement increases the the the like the conversation

717
00:46:06,900 --> 00:46:10,800
between the right and the left side of your brain same

718
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:15,400
with EMDR exactly exactly.

719
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:20,400
So it's a way of people that are not comfortable with

720
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:24,000
therapy that aren't into the whole EMDR thing you take

721
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,800
them for a paddle and you get them talking.

722
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,900
It's it's so much less pressure.

723
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:31,800
It's so much less threatening.

724
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:33,200
It's way more intimate.

725
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:41,700
So I think that the combination of being able to

726
00:46:41,700 --> 00:46:45,300
move your body and then talk about things not in the

727
00:46:45,300 --> 00:46:50,000
sense of having just repeat your story.

728
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:51,300
Tell me how you feel about this.

729
00:46:51,300 --> 00:46:52,200
Tell me how you feel.

730
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,000
It's just an organic conversation.

731
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:58,400
Whatever comes up and things get unlocked really easily

732
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:04,700
when there are no preconceived ideas around it, right?

733
00:47:05,500 --> 00:47:08,100
Absolutely amazing.

734
00:47:08,100 --> 00:47:12,200
Well getting back to your chronological walkthrough

735
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:15,700
then back to me.

736
00:47:15,700 --> 00:47:17,500
So, you know, you came out of school.

737
00:47:17,500 --> 00:47:18,700
You became a nurse yourself.

738
00:47:18,700 --> 00:47:21,900
Tell me about meeting Jeff and then tell me who Jeff

739
00:47:21,900 --> 00:47:22,300
was.

740
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,300
Okay, so I met Jeff.

741
00:47:25,300 --> 00:47:30,600
I started working at Saint Vincent's and Jeff was not

742
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:31,400
yet a fireman.

743
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,900
He was working there in building services, which literally

744
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:40,400
means that he was mopping the floors and he used to come

745
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:46,700
up to my unit and I he had this long ponytail.

746
00:47:46,700 --> 00:47:50,700
He always wore a baseball cap backwards and he had this

747
00:47:50,700 --> 00:47:56,400
huge key chain and he just had a very distinctive walk.

748
00:47:56,700 --> 00:48:00,200
So I would hear him like we would call.

749
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:02,400
Oh, we need this room cleans or whatever and I would

750
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,800
hear him get off the elevator because I could hear his

751
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:10,600
keys rattling and I would listen to him sometimes in

752
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,200
the room with the patients and they would be, you know,

753
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:17,400
you know, people are sick and I don't know just for

754
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,000
example, say somebody throw up on the floor and he had

755
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,800
to clean it up often.

756
00:48:23,700 --> 00:48:27,300
He would go in and people would be so I'm so sorry.

757
00:48:27,300 --> 00:48:31,200
I'm so you know, and I would listen to him interact

758
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:36,400
with these people and he was so kind and if they weren't

759
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:39,900
in a state where they were apologizing or he would just

760
00:48:39,900 --> 00:48:43,000
always start a conversation always had a joke always

761
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,100
did something to make these people smile.

762
00:48:45,100 --> 00:48:47,500
So it wasn't like he just went in and did his job and

763
00:48:47,500 --> 00:48:48,100
left.

764
00:48:50,300 --> 00:48:56,100
So at some point I started we started talking to each

765
00:48:56,100 --> 00:48:57,900
other and then.

766
00:48:57,900 --> 00:49:03,900
There were layoffs in the hospital and I hadn't seen

767
00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:05,700
him around in a while.

768
00:49:06,500 --> 00:49:09,500
So I asked one of his co-workers.

769
00:49:09,500 --> 00:49:10,500
Oh, what happened?

770
00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:11,900
You know what happened to Jeff?

771
00:49:11,900 --> 00:49:14,100
I thought maybe he got laid off and they said, oh no,

772
00:49:14,100 --> 00:49:14,900
he's on vacation.

773
00:49:14,900 --> 00:49:18,300
He's moving into a new house or something like that.

774
00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:24,700
So a lot of us were going out after work and one of the

775
00:49:24,700 --> 00:49:29,400
people that I work with invited him so him and I spent

776
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,100
the entire, you know, whatever time that we were out

777
00:49:33,100 --> 00:49:40,200
talking to each other and then he asked me out on a date

778
00:49:40,900 --> 00:49:43,500
and I went home and said to my mother.

779
00:49:45,100 --> 00:49:47,800
There's this really great guy at work.

780
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:49,200
Like he's so cool.

781
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,600
He's Jeff was very unique and that's the only way that

782
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:53,800
I could describe him.

783
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,800
But I said, I just can't get past this long hair.

784
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:04,100
Like I always dated guys that were kind of I don't want

785
00:50:04,100 --> 00:50:04,900
to say preppy.

786
00:50:04,900 --> 00:50:07,500
They are usually athletes, but they all went to Catholic

787
00:50:07,500 --> 00:50:07,800
school.

788
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,700
So they had short hair and they were and this guy was a

789
00:50:10,700 --> 00:50:11,800
complete hippie.

790
00:50:13,300 --> 00:50:14,700
So I said to my mother, I don't know.

791
00:50:14,700 --> 00:50:17,800
I don't know if I could get past the hair and my mother

792
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,800
was like handsome there like he could always cut his hair.

793
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:22,000
He's nice.

794
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:22,600
What do you care?

795
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:23,500
Go out with them.

796
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,200
Which is not what I expected from her.

797
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,100
So we went out and I've written about this.

798
00:50:30,100 --> 00:50:32,400
You probably read it or heard it somewhere.

799
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,500
Our first date.

800
00:50:38,500 --> 00:50:42,300
He asked me what do I want out of life?

801
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:45,700
Like what do I want out of life?

802
00:50:45,700 --> 00:50:47,400
I was out to have a good time.

803
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,400
I was not thinking we were getting into this.

804
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:52,100
I was not thinking we were getting into this conversation.

805
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,100
So I was like, I don't know.

806
00:50:55,100 --> 00:50:55,600
What do I want?

807
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:56,900
Like I have to answer that right now.

808
00:50:56,900 --> 00:50:58,700
I think I need time to think about that.

809
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:04,300
And so I sort of just said, I guess I want to be happy.

810
00:51:04,300 --> 00:51:05,000
I don't know.

811
00:51:05,100 --> 00:51:09,000
I really never, you know, spend time thinking what's my

812
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:10,500
what do I really want out of life?

813
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,600
So I said, well, what do you want out of life?

814
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:19,000
And he was so clear, 27 years old and just was so clear.

815
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:23,000
He said, I want to make a difference.

816
00:51:24,500 --> 00:51:28,500
And that is Jeff in a nutshell.

817
00:51:28,500 --> 00:51:33,500
Like one minute he would be acting like Jim Carrey.

818
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,500
Hilariously funny.

819
00:51:37,500 --> 00:51:40,400
And then the next minute you would be having these

820
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:48,100
conversations that were so deep and made you really look at yourself.

821
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:53,600
Yeah, he was just this.

822
00:51:56,100 --> 00:51:59,600
I want to say larger than life because really that's that's

823
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:00,100
what he was.

824
00:52:00,100 --> 00:52:04,300
He wasn't a big guy, but he had this really strong personality.

825
00:52:04,300 --> 00:52:06,400
And when I say strong, I don't mean loud.

826
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,400
They don't mean he would be in a room and half the time

827
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,800
you know, you wouldn't even know that he was there.

828
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,500
You know, if we were out somewhere, he would just be and I would

829
00:52:17,500 --> 00:52:18,800
be the crazy one, right?

830
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,600
I would be dancing on the bar and I've looked out and he'd be

831
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:26,600
leaning up against the wall smiling at me.

832
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:28,600
Like here she goes again, right?

833
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:38,100
But yeah, so that was how that was our first date.

834
00:52:38,100 --> 00:52:40,500
Beautiful.

835
00:52:40,500 --> 00:52:44,800
Well, when he was doing the janitorial work, which I think

836
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:48,100
actually is a great prep for any probationary firefighter if you

837
00:52:48,100 --> 00:52:50,900
mop and floors and picking up shit just for everyone out there

838
00:52:50,900 --> 00:52:52,700
because that's what you're going to be doing.

839
00:52:52,700 --> 00:52:55,300
So true.

840
00:52:55,300 --> 00:52:58,400
But was he already testing with FD or was that something that

841
00:52:58,400 --> 00:52:59,200
came to him after?

842
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,800
Well, this is really crazy.

843
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:07,600
He had taken the test like we thought his test had been thrown

844
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:09,600
out because he had taken it.

845
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,800
I want to say he was 19 years old or eight.

846
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:18,000
I don't he was it was the test had been taken years and years

847
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:18,900
before that.

848
00:53:18,900 --> 00:53:23,300
He didn't ever expect to be called to the fire department.

849
00:53:23,300 --> 00:53:31,600
So when we got the letter, he was like what he was so shocked

850
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:37,700
and honestly, he almost didn't take it because him switching

851
00:53:37,700 --> 00:53:39,200
from the job that he was doing.

852
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:43,800
He was actually the manager of building services.

853
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:48,900
So him moving from that to the fire department as you know,

854
00:53:48,900 --> 00:53:50,100
going into the Academy.

855
00:53:50,100 --> 00:53:56,300
He was taking a pay cut and we had already gotten married at

856
00:53:56,300 --> 00:54:00,800
this point and I was pregnant with my daughter.

857
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,200
And he was like, I don't know.

858
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:08,200
Like I don't know if we can afford to take the pay cut and

859
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:12,000
you know, there are certain things that you just have to you

860
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,000
just have to suck it up.

861
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,000
I was like, we'll make it work.

862
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:16,200
This is what you want to do.

863
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:17,200
This is your dream.

864
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,600
It's better even for our future.

865
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:20,900
It's more secure.

866
00:54:20,900 --> 00:54:24,900
The hospital was always laying people off and you know, who

867
00:54:24,900 --> 00:54:27,700
wants to do the job that he was doing for the rest of it rest

868
00:54:27,700 --> 00:54:28,400
of their lives.

869
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:29,200
He didn't.

870
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:38,700
So, yeah, he said yes, they did the investigation and and there

871
00:54:38,700 --> 00:54:39,000
he was.

872
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:43,300
Now, did he cut his hair because he got in the Academy or

873
00:54:43,300 --> 00:54:46,500
were you able to get him to cut his hair before he cut his

874
00:54:46,500 --> 00:54:48,800
hair because oh God, he cut his hair.

875
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:57,200
Actually, he first cut his hair when my daughter did he cut

876
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:58,500
his hair when Tory was born.

877
00:54:58,500 --> 00:55:04,400
I think he cut his hair first when Tory was born.

878
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,900
No, I think that's a lie.

879
00:55:07,900 --> 00:55:08,800
I don't remember.

880
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:12,500
I know that he got his hair cut though, like the short short

881
00:55:12,500 --> 00:55:16,300
haircut for the Academy and what was funny about it was that

882
00:55:16,300 --> 00:55:17,800
when he went to go get his hair cut.

883
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:19,400
I was a nervous wreck.

884
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:23,900
The one who was like, oh, I can't get past the hair when I

885
00:55:23,900 --> 00:55:26,500
knew he was going to get his head shaved.

886
00:55:26,500 --> 00:55:28,800
I was waiting at home.

887
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:31,400
Like what if he comes back and I don't think he's a track.

888
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:37,200
I was so nervous and he came back and I was like Jesus, you

889
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:38,600
should have cut your hair years ago.

890
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:45,300
Jeff had really defined features and that long hair.

891
00:55:45,300 --> 00:55:49,600
That's crazy long hair just hit everything.

892
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:53,000
So yeah, I still actually have the ponytail.

893
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:53,800
Oh, you do.

894
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:55,300
Brilliant.

895
00:55:55,300 --> 00:56:00,900
Yeah, because he was very into Native American traditions.

896
00:56:00,900 --> 00:56:07,400
So we were supposed to bury it after he cut it and we didn't

897
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:11,200
really we he helped we held on to it for a little bit and then

898
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:15,700
September 11th happens and then I didn't want to bury it.

899
00:56:15,700 --> 00:56:16,600
I wanted to keep it.

900
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:18,700
So I still have it.

901
00:56:18,700 --> 00:56:19,900
That's beautiful.

902
00:56:19,900 --> 00:56:25,200
Well with that transition, I just had one of the guys from

903
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,500
The Rock on the show Felix Manjaro's and he was one of the

904
00:56:28,500 --> 00:56:30,800
fitness trainers on the Academy.

905
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:31,500
I saw that.

906
00:56:31,500 --> 00:56:32,900
Yeah, so I'm having problems.

907
00:56:32,900 --> 00:56:34,500
I mean, hopefully by the time we will hear this it will be

908
00:56:34,500 --> 00:56:38,000
resolved and done but I'm for some reason the Blemming thing

909
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:38,800
will not upload.

910
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,200
So it's still in cyberspace at the moment.

911
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:47,900
But anyway to go from, you know a desk job to being in a

912
00:56:47,900 --> 00:56:49,500
well-respected Academy.

913
00:56:49,500 --> 00:56:51,300
What was that like for Jeff?

914
00:56:51,300 --> 00:56:53,400
How did he deal with that transition?

915
00:56:53,400 --> 00:57:00,600
Oh God, I that it was almost seamless for him because he

916
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:05,300
really was was meant to be in the in the fire department.

917
00:57:05,300 --> 00:57:11,800
It was almost you know, when when you up level to when you

918
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:15,500
start to do with what your soul's purpose is things just

919
00:57:15,500 --> 00:57:16,100
flow.

920
00:57:16,100 --> 00:57:18,800
So that was that was how it was.

921
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,900
He didn't like the studying part of it.

922
00:57:21,900 --> 00:57:28,400
And Jeff was not ever he was a big he was a big outdoorsman.

923
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:34,300
So he was always kayaking and camping and hiking and that

924
00:57:34,300 --> 00:57:35,600
kind of stuff fishing.

925
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:39,100
He was a huge fisherman, but he wasn't into sports.

926
00:57:39,100 --> 00:57:46,000
So I think the running for time and all of that stuff in the

927
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:52,400
beginning was you know, I want to say it was a lot of it was

928
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:53,200
a lot of work.

929
00:57:53,800 --> 00:58:00,000
But yeah, he just got himself into a rhythm and the Academy

930
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:03,800
flew by it really did beautiful.

931
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:05,300
Where did he find himself assigned?

932
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:08,300
Ten and ten.

933
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,000
Right down on Liberty Street Liberty and Greenwich that was

934
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:17,600
so when Jeff graduated from the Academy they were still doing

935
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:19,200
what was called the rotation.

936
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:23,900
So you would come out of your believe it was 13 weeks in the

937
00:58:23,900 --> 00:58:29,100
Academy and then you were assigned a permanent house you

938
00:58:29,100 --> 00:58:35,000
would start there and then you would spend it was supposed to

939
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:39,500
be I think originally it was supposed to be a year in each

940
00:58:39,500 --> 00:58:41,400
house, but that wasn't how it worked out.

941
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:46,600
So he spent some time at 10 and 10 and then the New York City

942
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:53,000
firehouses are labeled a B and C depending upon fire duty and

943
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:58,200
EMS runs their level of activity and you were supposed to

944
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:02,200
rotate through each one of each of those houses.

945
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:08,100
This way you get to see all different scenarios right and

946
00:59:08,100 --> 00:59:12,000
different personalities and different ways of different

947
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:18,900
leadership. Styles and all that so he went from 10 and 10 to

948
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:23,400
a house in Brooklyn 246 169.

949
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:29,100
He spent a year there and then from there he went to Ladder

950
00:59:29,100 --> 00:59:35,700
175 in East New York and then back to 10.

951
00:59:35,700 --> 00:59:40,100
Now with 10 and 10, I mean obviously most people will

952
00:59:40,100 --> 00:59:42,500
recognize that as the closest firehouse to the World Trade.

953
00:59:42,500 --> 00:59:47,200
I've been there made sure I didn't go over and say hi and

954
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,000
everything because I'm sure those poor men and women get

955
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,700
bombarded by every single firefighter from Planet Earth

956
00:59:51,700 --> 00:59:56,200
coming to say hello, but we went to the memorial and the

957
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,600
museum and all these things and so it's very very hallow

958
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:03,000
ground I think in the fire service but prior to 9-11 what

959
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:04,300
kind of runs was he going on?

960
01:00:04,300 --> 01:00:09,600
Because it's a very nice, you know, Manhattan station.

961
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:13,500
So I'm assuming there weren't a lot of structure fires.

962
01:00:13,500 --> 01:00:16,500
It's not, you know, old brown stones or anything.

963
01:00:16,500 --> 01:00:20,200
I'm assuming there wasn't a lot of violent crime in that

964
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:21,000
particular area.

965
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,700
So what kind of what did the day look like for him those kind

966
01:00:23,700 --> 01:00:24,300
of calls?

967
01:00:26,100 --> 01:00:28,500
Oh God, if the guys from 10 listen to this, they're probably

968
01:00:28,500 --> 01:00:29,100
going to kill me.

969
01:00:29,700 --> 01:00:30,600
They'll kill me first.

970
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:34,000
Well, now you're spot-on.

971
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:34,600
They know it.

972
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:37,800
I mean they were first to with the World Trade Center.

973
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:42,300
So I would say that their regular days consisted.

974
01:00:42,300 --> 01:00:47,600
There's a lot of like stuck elevators, smoke conditions

975
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:50,600
because there's lots of restaurants around.

976
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,900
They were always doing BI.

977
01:00:55,900 --> 01:00:58,000
That's a huge building inspection.

978
01:00:58,000 --> 01:00:59,000
That's a huge thing.

979
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,600
It's huge thing everywhere. You should know the buildings

980
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:04,400
that you're working in, but especially especially in

981
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:06,700
Manhattan because there's always construction.

982
01:01:06,700 --> 01:01:08,000
There's always something going on.

983
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,800
So they do spend a lot of their day doing building inspection.

984
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:16,900
But other than that, you're right.

985
01:01:16,900 --> 01:01:21,700
There weren't a lot of actual fires.

986
01:01:21,700 --> 01:01:26,400
Sometimes there would be a call down to the river who don't,

987
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:28,500
you know, water rescues things like that.

988
01:01:28,500 --> 01:01:36,100
And to be quite honest, I hate to think that I'm like upsetting

989
01:01:36,100 --> 01:01:43,900
people when I say things, but when Jeff was in 175, which

990
01:01:43,900 --> 01:01:50,300
was the house right before he went back to 10 and 10, so really

991
01:01:50,300 --> 01:01:51,900
busy company.

992
01:01:51,900 --> 01:01:54,800
It is a lot of senior guys.

993
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:58,300
It's a house that everyone, you know, wants to go to.

994
01:01:58,300 --> 01:02:05,300
And he saw so much fire duty there.

995
01:02:05,300 --> 01:02:09,300
Like it was whenever he would come home, he would smell like

996
01:02:09,300 --> 01:02:15,500
smoke and you would think that that would make me more nervous,

997
01:02:15,500 --> 01:02:21,800
but it actually reassured me because I felt like everyone

998
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:25,500
that he worked with was so experienced on the fire floor

999
01:02:25,500 --> 01:02:28,700
that he was in good hands.

1000
01:02:28,700 --> 01:02:34,200
When he went back to 10, I had he had a they actually did have

1001
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,300
a smoke condition in a restaurant and I was like, oh, how

1002
01:02:37,300 --> 01:02:41,400
you know how to go and he was like, yeah, you know, it was it

1003
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:42,400
was easy.

1004
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:43,000
Nothing.

1005
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:44,400
There was it was nothing major.

1006
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:48,100
But in my mind, I was thinking to myself, you know, if you

1007
01:02:48,100 --> 01:02:53,600
don't see a lot of fire then and I'm not saying that they're

1008
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:55,600
not capable.

1009
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:59,400
They're all capable, but it was just like, oh my gosh, you know,

1010
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,800
I hope nothing big happens because it's sort of like you're

1011
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:07,100
rusty a little rusty even though they drill constantly and they

1012
01:03:07,100 --> 01:03:09,200
keep their skills intact.

1013
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:13,100
It's different from being in a company that is constantly going

1014
01:03:13,100 --> 01:03:15,000
to fires.

1015
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:19,900
So I started to get nervous and I think that there's something

1016
01:03:19,900 --> 01:03:21,400
to be said again.

1017
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:23,600
I always take things to the soul level.

1018
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:28,600
Like I feel like my soul knew that something was going to

1019
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:35,300
happen and this wasn't just him going from a busy house to a

1020
01:03:35,300 --> 01:03:38,400
less busy house.

1021
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:41,600
When he graduated from the Academy, he got interviewed by

1022
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:48,500
our local newspaper and I was filing it away and I just and

1023
01:03:48,500 --> 01:03:53,100
there was a picture his his official fire department picture

1024
01:03:53,100 --> 01:03:58,600
that I was also putting away and I just and I'm not a crier.

1025
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:02,000
So this is like I was I couldn't stop crying.

1026
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:04,400
My sister called me and was like, what's the matter with you?

1027
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:05,800
And I said, I don't know.

1028
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:09,300
I feel like I'm filing this stuff to take it take it out at

1029
01:04:09,300 --> 01:04:11,900
a really bad time.

1030
01:04:11,900 --> 01:04:16,500
And that's exactly what ended up happening.

1031
01:04:16,500 --> 01:04:23,300
So and I and I'm not a worrywart, you know, not normally.

1032
01:04:23,300 --> 01:04:27,000
I'm not I don't try to think of the worst-case scenario.

1033
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:32,800
It just isn't my personality, but there was some kind of of

1034
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:39,000
knowing even after the Father's Day fires, right?

1035
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:45,800
Both of us were so shook and there had been other, you know,

1036
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:51,300
losses, but that one for some reason I like I just knew I

1037
01:04:51,300 --> 01:04:57,500
couldn't imagine what it was like being in the being the

1038
01:04:57,500 --> 01:05:02,800
wives of those of the men or you know, their family members

1039
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:05,800
and I don't know.

1040
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:11,300
I just had a feeling that one day that was going to be me.

1041
01:05:11,300 --> 01:05:16,200
That's such a powerful perspective to hear for a couple of reasons.

1042
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,100
Firstly, you're right.

1043
01:05:18,100 --> 01:05:23,000
There are many of us that are out protecting areas that don't

1044
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,900
get a lot of fire and I being you said user with gypsy.

1045
01:05:25,900 --> 01:05:28,200
I mean, basically I've ended up being a fire gypsy.

1046
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:30,600
You know, I ended up starting in the Miami area.

1047
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,900
I trained in Orlando worked in Miami area highly initially

1048
01:05:33,900 --> 01:05:38,200
then California for a few years and then the the Orange County

1049
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:41,500
outside Orlando for a few years and then finally protecting Disney

1050
01:05:41,500 --> 01:05:46,400
the last one and Anaheim for example burned all the time.

1051
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:48,400
It was a black cloud my probationary year.

1052
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:54,000
I think it was like 12 solid structure fires, which you know

1053
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:58,500
for what was that 2005 time that was pretty good.

1054
01:05:58,500 --> 01:06:00,900
A lot of you know, the buildings were safer by that point,

1055
01:06:00,900 --> 01:06:04,200
but then the last one I work for the protects Disney, of course

1056
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:06,300
they do very well with their fire protection.

1057
01:06:06,300 --> 01:06:11,000
So, you know, I mean next to no fires, I mean, there's a tracks trailer fire.

1058
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:14,100
I think I'm trying to remember a couple others mutual aid, but really

1059
01:06:14,100 --> 01:06:16,400
nothing and the amount of time I was there.

1060
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:18,300
So then the onus is on training though.

1061
01:06:18,300 --> 01:06:21,400
Like you said, you can't make fires happen.

1062
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:24,000
In fact, really in your soul, you know, you shouldn't want to make

1063
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:28,300
fires happen anyway, ethically, but we're all praying for them.

1064
01:06:28,300 --> 01:06:33,600
Let's be honest, but you know, the so the other side of that is the training

1065
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:34,500
and you're right completely.

1066
01:06:34,500 --> 01:06:38,800
There's no question that when I was in Anaheim had something kicked off

1067
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:42,000
or even Orange County, the one that was after I would have been so much

1068
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:46,000
more prepared than the very end of my career in the last place and

1069
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:48,600
partly because the training wasn't there.

1070
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:51,000
But you know, also the frequency even if you're training well, you're

1071
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:54,200
still simulating is not real world.

1072
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:58,500
So you're absolutely right to worry to be completely honest that people

1073
01:06:58,500 --> 01:06:59,000
are out there.

1074
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:04,000
Yes, the potential is bigger, but you know, the potential of not

1075
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,100
performing that one time I think is much bigger in a choir house.

1076
01:07:07,100 --> 01:07:13,500
Now, so many of us around the world, you know, honor the men and women

1077
01:07:13,500 --> 01:07:17,500
that were lost as a beautiful competition, sadly has stopped at the

1078
01:07:17,500 --> 01:07:21,300
moment because of a combination of new leadership, which is terrible

1079
01:07:21,300 --> 01:07:26,600
in their department and COVID, but it was honoring the 343 and obviously

1080
01:07:26,600 --> 01:07:28,300
stair climbs are a huge part of that.

1081
01:07:28,300 --> 01:07:35,800
When you know, prior to that event, how often did the crews climb?

1082
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:40,300
Because one of the most I think powerful things I've heard one of the

1083
01:07:40,300 --> 01:07:44,100
leaders in the fire service and he was from Denver say Dave McGrill.

1084
01:07:44,100 --> 01:07:49,500
I asked him and I was a loaded question, you know, how many stairs,

1085
01:07:49,500 --> 01:07:51,800
how many flights of stairs you think a firefighter should be able to

1086
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:55,100
carry, you know, all the gear and he said well to the top of your

1087
01:07:55,100 --> 01:07:56,500
tallest building in your first year.

1088
01:07:56,500 --> 01:08:01,700
So with that obviously the World Trade was a huge structure.

1089
01:08:01,700 --> 01:08:05,700
I ended up climbing one World Trade with a Marine Rob Jones, who's a

1090
01:08:05,700 --> 01:08:06,500
double amputee.

1091
01:08:06,500 --> 01:08:10,500
So I climbed he bear crawled 110 floors, which is insane.

1092
01:08:10,500 --> 01:08:11,300
Wow.

1093
01:08:11,300 --> 01:08:16,500
But anyway, the point I'm trying to make is how much training and

1094
01:08:16,500 --> 01:08:21,900
what was the emphasis on stair climbs for the crews that Jeff worked with?

1095
01:08:21,900 --> 01:08:29,700
I'm throwing everybody onto the bus here.

1096
01:08:29,700 --> 01:08:31,300
Arizona asked me these questions.

1097
01:08:31,300 --> 01:08:39,100
I think that it's actually left after you get out of the Academy.

1098
01:08:39,100 --> 01:08:43,900
There are physical, you know, you go for your physicals, your medicals

1099
01:08:43,900 --> 01:08:46,700
every year with your company and all of that.

1100
01:08:46,700 --> 01:08:55,300
But there isn't actually another physical fitness test.

1101
01:08:55,300 --> 01:08:59,900
If you could believe that, but that's the truth.

1102
01:08:59,900 --> 01:09:06,900
So the ability to climb stairs, it's left up to the individual pretty

1103
01:09:06,900 --> 01:09:07,300
much.

1104
01:09:07,300 --> 01:09:10,900
I don't I've never been in a firehouse that doesn't have its own

1105
01:09:10,900 --> 01:09:11,200
gym.

1106
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:13,500
Ten house has a beautiful gym.

1107
01:09:13,500 --> 01:09:19,500
The guys are always working out and but it really was up to the

1108
01:09:19,500 --> 01:09:22,100
individual to stay to stay fit.

1109
01:09:22,100 --> 01:09:25,900
Yeah, but I mean, that's I think that's the element of that.

1110
01:09:25,900 --> 01:09:26,300
That's good.

1111
01:09:26,300 --> 01:09:28,500
I think we should have annual standards and that's something I'm huge

1112
01:09:28,500 --> 01:09:28,700
about.

1113
01:09:28,700 --> 01:09:30,300
But you know, it is on us.

1114
01:09:30,300 --> 01:09:32,700
So but were they were they out climbing stairs?

1115
01:09:32,700 --> 01:09:35,100
And the reason I asked is not to kind of throw them under the bus, but

1116
01:09:35,100 --> 01:09:40,600
a lot of crews got, you know, an astounding way up that building with

1117
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,500
these fire conditions with these evacuations going on.

1118
01:09:43,500 --> 01:09:46,800
So I'm doing it out of, you know, respect for a lot of these crews.

1119
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:50,900
And I'm assuming that there were many crews that were holding their

1120
01:09:50,900 --> 01:09:53,500
own bar high to be able to actually affect the rescues.

1121
01:09:53,500 --> 01:09:54,300
They did that day.

1122
01:09:54,300 --> 01:10:00,000
I mean, I think that when you work in Manhattan, every every single

1123
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:01,900
building basically is a high-rise, right?

1124
01:10:01,900 --> 01:10:04,100
So you're always going upstairs.

1125
01:10:04,100 --> 01:10:07,900
I know they would take the elevator when they could because why wouldn't

1126
01:10:07,900 --> 01:10:16,300
you and in regards to September 11th, the person that I heard of

1127
01:10:16,300 --> 01:10:20,300
getting the highest and again, we don't know, right?

1128
01:10:20,300 --> 01:10:28,800
It's all pretty much hearsay and the little bit of radio comms that

1129
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:38,000
we had that it's based upon, but was an individual called Oreo Palmer.

1130
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:42,300
And he was known for his fitness.

1131
01:10:42,300 --> 01:10:50,000
No one was surprised that he got as far as as far as he did.

1132
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,900
Yeah, and I was at the 89th.

1133
01:10:52,900 --> 01:10:54,100
Have I got that right around there?

1134
01:10:54,100 --> 01:10:56,100
Did he got to?

1135
01:10:56,100 --> 01:11:02,200
I don't even I don't remember actually how high but I thought that

1136
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:03,400
it was in the 80s.

1137
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:06,200
Yeah, I'm assuming that probably was where the impact was so they

1138
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:07,400
probably couldn't get any further.

1139
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:10,100
But yeah, I mean, so like I said, this conversation obviously

1140
01:11:10,100 --> 01:11:13,800
is a powerful perspective over ownership over preparation over

1141
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:16,500
training if you are in a quiet house, but you know, like I said,

1142
01:11:16,500 --> 01:11:20,900
a nod to the incredible physical achievements that I heard of and

1143
01:11:20,900 --> 01:11:24,500
I witnessed in, you know, the documentary 9-11 and things like this

1144
01:11:24,500 --> 01:11:28,200
that you know when caught upon, you know, a lot of those men and

1145
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:33,000
women got to an incredible level and facilitated so many rescues

1146
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:34,800
before you know the collapse.

1147
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:40,300
Yeah, I actually you know, it's interesting even 20 years later.

1148
01:11:40,300 --> 01:11:45,800
I'll sit down with somebody and we'll be, you know, telling stories

1149
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:48,800
and something will come up and I'll find out something that I never

1150
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:52,500
knew in all this time, you know, I'm like, wow that that I've never

1151
01:11:52,500 --> 01:12:01,700
heard that story before but I know that our guys I'm pretty sure

1152
01:12:01,700 --> 01:12:04,500
they got on an elevator even though they were way off.

1153
01:12:04,500 --> 01:12:09,600
I think that they from from what I've heard they didn't they didn't

1154
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:11,900
start down from the lobby.

1155
01:12:11,900 --> 01:12:16,000
They hopped on one of the elevators and then made their way up.

1156
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:16,800
It didn't go.

1157
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:20,700
I don't remember what floor they got off of but I think they were

1158
01:12:20,700 --> 01:12:22,900
up in the 50s.

1159
01:12:22,900 --> 01:12:23,200
Right.

1160
01:12:23,200 --> 01:12:24,700
Well, let's talk about that then.

1161
01:12:24,700 --> 01:12:30,000
So, you know, obviously 9-11 was a beautiful morning as we've heard.

1162
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:35,200
So what was that day like through your eyes?

1163
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:36,100
Through my eyes.

1164
01:12:36,100 --> 01:12:41,200
So the day before Jeff left for work the day before New York City

1165
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:44,900
Fire Department for those who don't know the firemen work 24 hour

1166
01:12:44,900 --> 01:12:47,100
shifts most of the time.

1167
01:12:47,100 --> 01:12:52,300
So they go in for 24 hours and then they're off her day or two and

1168
01:12:52,300 --> 01:12:55,200
they have a 24 partner.

1169
01:12:55,200 --> 01:13:02,900
So that person works opposite their schedule.

1170
01:13:02,900 --> 01:13:09,400
Jeff was not supposed to be working the morning of the 11th.

1171
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:11,300
He was supposed to be coming home.

1172
01:13:11,300 --> 01:13:20,400
But the night before he had gotten a call someone had jury duty and

1173
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:25,400
so they needed, you know, they needed one of the guys to stay over.

1174
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:36,600
So Jeff was he offered to stay and I spoke to him the night before in

1175
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:44,600
the morning I had my my oldest had to get off to school and I had

1176
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:49,800
had a miscarriage that summer like and had complications.

1177
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:51,300
So I wasn't really feeling great.

1178
01:13:51,300 --> 01:13:58,400
But the the two little ones after I sent the older guy off the two

1179
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:02,900
little ones slept in and I never would go back to sleep normally,

1180
01:14:02,900 --> 01:14:04,300
but I wasn't feeling great.

1181
01:14:04,300 --> 01:14:07,400
So I was like, let me lay down while they're still laying down and

1182
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:13,900
we didn't we had cell phones at the time, but they weren't the first

1183
01:14:13,900 --> 01:14:15,800
line of communication.

1184
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:21,000
So my home phone was ringing off the hook and every morning I would

1185
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:22,900
talk to my sister my sister-in-law.

1186
01:14:22,900 --> 01:14:29,200
So I figured it was them and then I heard my father on my voice now

1187
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:32,000
and I picked up because he never would call me.

1188
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:34,900
So it's like something must be wrong.

1189
01:14:34,900 --> 01:14:39,900
So yeah, I answered the phone and he said where's Jeff and I said

1190
01:14:39,900 --> 01:14:47,900
he's at work and my father was working at Jersey City Medical Center

1191
01:14:47,900 --> 01:14:52,700
at the time and his office big gigantic windows faced the World

1192
01:14:52,700 --> 01:14:59,700
Trade Center and he saw the first plane hit and knew that you know,

1193
01:14:59,700 --> 01:15:02,100
that was Jeff's area.

1194
01:15:02,100 --> 01:15:08,800
So he said well a plane just hit the Twin Towers said there's a

1195
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:16,300
huge fire and I was not concerned.

1196
01:15:16,300 --> 01:15:20,200
I honestly was excited for him.

1197
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:23,700
I was because you know, he lives for fire.

1198
01:15:23,700 --> 01:15:25,400
So I was like good.

1199
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:27,800
He's finally going to you know, he's going to get a good job.

1200
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:36,700
And then while I was on the phone, my father said holy shit.

1201
01:15:36,700 --> 01:15:42,300
There's another plane coming and when that happened we knew that

1202
01:15:42,300 --> 01:15:46,000
it was not just an accident.

1203
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:53,500
So I put my TV on and I didn't know, you know, I didn't know what to do.

1204
01:15:53,500 --> 01:15:58,400
I mean, I think everyone sort of was in that state of what is happening, right?

1205
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:08,200
It was just I didn't expect the towers to fall and I didn't even at that point.

1206
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:13,000
I was scared because I just the fear of the unknown, but I didn't think

1207
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:15,800
that Jeff would be hurt.

1208
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:21,200
I just was like what the hell is going on and then as we heard about

1209
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:29,000
the other planes, it was we knew that we were under attack and I my first

1210
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:31,600
thought was for my children safety.

1211
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:37,900
I had Vincent at school and I mean, this is you know, the dark humor.

1212
01:16:37,900 --> 01:16:45,200
It's not funny, but it is now I didn't know like should I go pick him up?

1213
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:47,700
I wanted I was waiting to hear from Jeff.

1214
01:16:47,700 --> 01:16:50,700
I did and then I'm like, well schools are a bomb shelter.

1215
01:16:50,700 --> 01:16:54,900
So maybe there he's better off staying there and I said my sister also

1216
01:16:54,900 --> 01:16:55,900
her boys were at school.

1217
01:16:55,900 --> 01:16:58,800
So I said, what do you think we should do?

1218
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:05,000
So we left them there and then a relative of ours who's a police officer

1219
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,600
said we should probably go pick the kids up from school because they

1220
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:11,200
didn't know, you know, if we were going to pack up and what was going

1221
01:17:11,200 --> 01:17:16,000
to happen so we go to get the kids from school, but my son's to this day

1222
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:21,000
tells everybody that he's the last person in school that I just left in there.

1223
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:25,200
I was like, well, I thought I was keeping you safe.

1224
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:32,100
But yeah, so so that was like my first thought trying to get the kids

1225
01:17:32,100 --> 01:17:38,100
situated, but when the first tower collapsed.

1226
01:17:38,100 --> 01:17:49,000
My heart, I didn't it was like even when that happened your brain does

1227
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:56,400
this your brain goes into this protection mode instantly when I speak

1228
01:17:56,400 --> 01:18:02,600
now of you know, my memories and I don't can't remember there is there's

1229
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:06,400
so much and this is common with trauma to there's so much that I don't

1230
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:12,100
remember I have little snapshots and there's kind of like, you know, a

1231
01:18:12,100 --> 01:18:17,200
story attached to those visuals, but there's a lot that I can't recall

1232
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:25,500
when that tower fell my first thought was oh God, you know, he might

1233
01:18:25,500 --> 01:18:25,900
be hurt.

1234
01:18:25,900 --> 01:18:27,000
He might be hurt.

1235
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:33,100
That was I didn't even think that he would have been killed like I

1236
01:18:33,100 --> 01:18:38,700
couldn't it didn't it did could it couldn't register it wasn't you know,

1237
01:18:38,700 --> 01:18:44,100
like it just so I started saying oh God, I hope he's okay.

1238
01:18:44,100 --> 01:18:46,100
Like I hope he isn't hurt.

1239
01:18:46,100 --> 01:18:53,800
And that was like my first prayer was let him just be okay, you know,

1240
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:54,800
don't let him be hurt.

1241
01:18:54,800 --> 01:19:00,100
And then I thought to myself, I remember Jeff saying to me it was like

1242
01:19:00,100 --> 01:19:02,900
all of these conversations we had came rushing back to me.

1243
01:19:02,900 --> 01:19:07,200
So I remembered him saying to me if anything ever happens to me, they

1244
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:12,600
send someone to the house to pick you up and they'll bring you to me.

1245
01:19:13,700 --> 01:19:17,600
So I was like I better get in the shower.

1246
01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:22,000
I know this sounds like so crazy, but it's like the way that your

1247
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:27,400
mind just goes into this insane delusional thinking I was like let me

1248
01:19:27,400 --> 01:19:30,700
get into the shower in case they come to get me if he does get hurt.

1249
01:19:30,700 --> 01:19:35,400
They might have to bring me to the hospital while I was in the shower.

1250
01:19:36,700 --> 01:19:39,800
Had the our house is very small.

1251
01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:42,000
We lived in a little Cape on Staten Island.

1252
01:19:42,700 --> 01:19:48,600
I had the bathroom door open and the TV was on so that I could hear

1253
01:19:48,600 --> 01:19:56,000
what was happening and as I was in the shower the second tower fell and

1254
01:19:56,000 --> 01:20:00,700
as the tower fell this is the gods-honest truth.

1255
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:10,100
I was wearing a locket that Jeff had given me and it literally got it

1256
01:20:10,100 --> 01:20:13,600
like it felt like someone grabbed it and ripped it off of my neck.

1257
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:17,900
Like it just got it got yanked and it fell to the bottom of the shower.

1258
01:20:18,300 --> 01:20:18,700
Right.

1259
01:20:18,700 --> 01:20:25,400
And I got this feeling of like somebody like somebody falling.

1260
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:31,900
So then that was when I started to get scared.

1261
01:20:31,900 --> 01:20:35,900
Like I didn't know what I was supposed to do where I was and so my

1262
01:20:35,900 --> 01:20:37,800
phone then started ringing off the hook.

1263
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:47,500
Everybody wanted to know where he was and I like I picked the necklace up.

1264
01:20:47,500 --> 01:20:48,400
It wasn't broken.

1265
01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:51,300
Like people are like, oh it must have brought it wasn't broken.

1266
01:20:51,300 --> 01:20:54,400
It just it was the most insane thing.

1267
01:20:55,600 --> 01:21:01,900
So my sister came over and my mother came over and we just there was

1268
01:21:01,900 --> 01:21:03,100
nothing I could do after that.

1269
01:21:03,100 --> 01:21:03,400
Right.

1270
01:21:03,400 --> 01:21:04,200
I just waited.

1271
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:06,000
I kept calling the firehouse.

1272
01:21:08,300 --> 01:21:11,500
There was no there was no answer or it was a busy signal.

1273
01:21:11,500 --> 01:21:13,300
We had no idea what was going on.

1274
01:21:13,300 --> 01:21:16,000
It was like everybody you were scared.

1275
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:19,300
I was scared for him, but I was also scared for all of us.

1276
01:21:19,300 --> 01:21:21,600
Like I didn't I had children to protect.

1277
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:22,800
I was by myself.

1278
01:21:25,900 --> 01:21:33,000
So I started our house went in a circle and I literally was just like pacing.

1279
01:21:33,000 --> 01:21:34,100
I just went around.

1280
01:21:34,100 --> 01:21:39,000
I just kept pacing and looking on the news like it's an hour is watching

1281
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:43,800
the news looking for the little names on the back of the bunker gear to

1282
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:45,000
see if I could see him.

1283
01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:51,100
And then I don't like that.

1284
01:21:51,100 --> 01:21:55,600
That's pretty much all I remember from from the first from the first

1285
01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:56,700
that first day.

1286
01:21:56,700 --> 01:22:01,000
I remember just thinking to myself.

1287
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:03,600
Okay, I don't care how he comes home first.

1288
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:06,400
It was like I wanted him home in one piece.

1289
01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:09,400
Then it was like, I don't care how he comes home.

1290
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:12,000
I just want him home.

1291
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:15,800
I don't care if you know, everyone is broken.

1292
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:23,700
If I just want him home and I didn't hear from anyone that you know, we

1293
01:22:23,700 --> 01:22:25,400
didn't hear from anyone for date.

1294
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:36,800
It was you know, it was just this waiting and if you were why I mean, I'm

1295
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:39,700
sure you remember watching the news and the scariest thing.

1296
01:22:39,700 --> 01:22:44,100
I mean, especially for me being a nurse that spent a lot of time in

1297
01:22:44,100 --> 01:22:45,000
the emergency room.

1298
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:49,600
I saw all the triage and everything set up all the city the big city

1299
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:53,800
hospitals ready for all of these people to be brought in and no one

1300
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:55,700
was being brought in.

1301
01:22:55,700 --> 01:22:59,300
I was like where it was like as if all these people just disappeared.

1302
01:22:59,300 --> 01:23:05,400
It was yeah, that was my September 11th.

1303
01:23:05,400 --> 01:23:09,600
Well, that last comment that you made reminds me of the Surfside incident.

1304
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:12,500
We just had in Miami and a lot of my friends were down there, you know

1305
01:23:12,500 --> 01:23:14,900
with the USAR teams and it was the same thing.

1306
01:23:14,900 --> 01:23:18,700
They had a few people pulled out at the beginning and then nothing.

1307
01:23:18,700 --> 01:23:21,600
I mean, they were trying to do body recovery and you know, we won't get

1308
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:24,600
into the details, but they weren't finding much of anything.

1309
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:29,200
So well, this is going to be an unusual perspective for you because I

1310
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:32,800
mean, you know, you were worried about actually losing someone but one

1311
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:39,900
of the beautiful things that came out of this horrendous day was what

1312
01:23:39,900 --> 01:23:44,200
the world saw the day after the community the coming together and it's

1313
01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:47,300
something that I think that people even romanticized about this last

1314
01:23:47,300 --> 01:23:47,700
year.

1315
01:23:47,700 --> 01:23:51,400
I miss 912 is definitely a phrase said a lot now.

1316
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:55,400
It's a skewed perspective because you were obviously, you know fearing

1317
01:23:55,400 --> 01:24:01,100
that you lost Jeff but were there any elements of that now retroactively

1318
01:24:01,100 --> 01:24:04,500
when now you're you know much further away from that day that you

1319
01:24:04,500 --> 01:24:07,900
remember of the kindness and compassion post 9-11.

1320
01:24:09,600 --> 01:24:10,200
I

1321
01:24:14,500 --> 01:24:17,400
I my own 912 story.

1322
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:21,400
I mean, I stayed up that whole night, you know, then of the 11th.

1323
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:27,700
I was up all night and in the morning I was sitting outside.

1324
01:24:27,700 --> 01:24:28,800
It was pitch black.

1325
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:36,400
The kids were sleeping and I'm reading a book and this is like the one

1326
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:45,900
of the first parts of it is that the Sun started to rise and I couldn't

1327
01:24:45,900 --> 01:24:46,700
believe it.

1328
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:53,400
I was like it because you feel like times was standing still right and

1329
01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:55,400
the night was so long.

1330
01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:59,100
It was just it was it felt like it would never ends and then all of

1331
01:24:59,100 --> 01:25:04,100
a sudden that some came up and I was like, wow, the world just keeps

1332
01:25:04,100 --> 01:25:10,200
on keeping on no matter what happens right, but it also gave me relief

1333
01:25:10,200 --> 01:25:12,100
like it didn't feel so scary.

1334
01:25:12,100 --> 01:25:16,000
I felt like if he was trapped in there, maybe it wasn't so scary with

1335
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:19,200
the sunlight and it was.

1336
01:25:19,200 --> 01:25:30,200
I guess it was like my first sign of hope and then as far as people

1337
01:25:30,200 --> 01:25:33,700
go God I talk about this often because

1338
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:43,000
I when you're in a situation like that it is as if you're so broken

1339
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:48,200
open every single one of your you you're experiencing every single

1340
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:52,300
emotion on full blast right there's so much pain.

1341
01:25:52,300 --> 01:25:53,600
There's so much fear.

1342
01:25:53,900 --> 01:25:59,100
There is so much sadness and then people are so kind and they're so

1343
01:25:59,100 --> 01:25:59,700
good to you.

1344
01:25:59,700 --> 01:26:04,500
I my house was filled with firemen filled.

1345
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:07,900
They made sure I had breakfast lunch dinner.

1346
01:26:07,900 --> 01:26:09,100
They paid my bills.

1347
01:26:09,100 --> 01:26:10,600
They did my food shopping.

1348
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:14,600
They made sure that my kids were taking care of I mean I all I had

1349
01:26:14,600 --> 01:26:18,100
to do was exist right and that was pretty much all I was capable

1350
01:26:18,100 --> 01:26:23,600
of at the time but on top of that of course my friends my family

1351
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:31,100
neighbors everyone everyone sent food over put up as because the

1352
01:26:31,100 --> 01:26:36,700
other part of 9-eleven is that that feeling of that not knowing

1353
01:26:36,700 --> 01:26:41,300
and it lasted for months because they were you know, they were

1354
01:26:41,300 --> 01:26:43,000
looking for people for months.

1355
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:48,300
So it wasn't like a regular fire where you know, you lose someone

1356
01:26:48,300 --> 01:26:55,200
and you can start, you know sort of you know, the closure comes

1357
01:26:55,200 --> 01:27:00,100
quickly you have a body and you have a funeral and all that we

1358
01:27:00,100 --> 01:27:02,200
were just sitting around waiting and waiting.

1359
01:27:02,200 --> 01:27:09,400
So yes, I the people that were that were in my immediate, you

1360
01:27:09,400 --> 01:27:12,600
know, my home in my home with my immediate family all of that,

1361
01:27:12,600 --> 01:27:19,400
but then also seeing on TV, you know, everybody donating material

1362
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:23,000
and that heavy machinery to start, you know, just the guys out

1363
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:28,700
there doing the bucket Brigade in the beginning was it was really

1364
01:27:28,700 --> 01:27:30,700
people taking care of the firemen.

1365
01:27:30,700 --> 01:27:33,800
I mean friends of mine front people guys that Jeff works that

1366
01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:36,700
they would see pictures of them on the news covered in dusk getting

1367
01:27:36,700 --> 01:27:44,500
water poured in their eyes and yeah, so it was like that was the

1368
01:27:44,500 --> 01:27:45,400
worst of time.

1369
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:46,400
What is that saying?

1370
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:49,100
It's the worst of times and it was the best of times in the

1371
01:27:49,100 --> 01:27:50,100
worst of times.

1372
01:27:51,800 --> 01:27:53,800
Well, it's again, it's so important to hear because that's

1373
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:56,900
who I believe people are, you know, and I think that we're

1374
01:27:56,900 --> 01:27:58,400
given this skewed perspective.

1375
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:03,100
But again, because I get to hear all these incredible stories,

1376
01:28:03,100 --> 01:28:06,100
I get these layers now, you know, I've had 9-eleven for

1377
01:28:06,100 --> 01:28:09,000
example, everywhere from the French brothers that were inside,

1378
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:12,000
you know, with Chief Pfeiffer and Father Judge and then, you

1379
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:14,400
know, one of the men assigned the Coast Guard that was doing

1380
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:16,300
the evacuations off Manhattan.

1381
01:28:16,300 --> 01:28:19,600
I mean just so many powerful stories, but one thing I don't

1382
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:25,800
think people realize is the surviving members of FDNY that

1383
01:28:25,800 --> 01:28:29,700
were, you know, not hurt and able to carry on were cycling

1384
01:28:29,700 --> 01:28:34,600
through between, you know, funerals covering overtime shifts

1385
01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:37,700
because, you know, the life goes on people are still getting

1386
01:28:37,700 --> 01:28:40,300
sick and hurt and things are burning, you know, outside of

1387
01:28:40,300 --> 01:28:44,000
Manhattan, but then also being present that house full of

1388
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:47,300
firefighters that were helping you were also going to the

1389
01:28:47,300 --> 01:28:50,100
pile, going to funerals, running their shifts.

1390
01:28:50,300 --> 01:28:54,100
So the surviving members of that department and what they

1391
01:28:54,100 --> 01:28:57,100
did, you know, obviously FDPD, everyone else that was kind of

1392
01:28:57,100 --> 01:29:00,600
involved in that dispatch, you know, it's I think that's

1393
01:29:00,600 --> 01:29:04,100
another lesser-known fact that the workload emotionally and

1394
01:29:04,100 --> 01:29:07,300
physically that was put on the shoulders of survivors is

1395
01:29:07,300 --> 01:29:09,300
something that you don't really hear much about and I think

1396
01:29:09,300 --> 01:29:10,400
it needs to be acknowledged.

1397
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:11,600
Oh my God.

1398
01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:17,100
I just, on my personal Instagram page, I just did a post

1399
01:29:17,100 --> 01:29:24,600
about this because we had a, we had a retirement party for

1400
01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:31,100
two of the members of 10 House and one of my liaisons I

1401
01:29:31,100 --> 01:29:35,100
see often he actually joined the army after 9-11.

1402
01:29:35,100 --> 01:29:38,400
He became a nurse and then he went into the army and he

1403
01:29:38,400 --> 01:29:43,300
has since deployed and so I see, I see his name is John

1404
01:29:43,300 --> 01:29:43,500
Moore.

1405
01:29:43,500 --> 01:29:44,800
I see him often.

1406
01:29:46,100 --> 01:29:52,100
But the other liaison who was Jeff's senior man, he has

1407
01:29:52,100 --> 01:29:55,800
since retired and I, he doesn't really come out that often.

1408
01:29:55,800 --> 01:30:04,500
He has his own issues and I love him to death, but I got

1409
01:30:04,500 --> 01:30:08,400
to see him and that was my first thought being now, you

1410
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:13,800
know, time having passed and everything just being so

1411
01:30:13,800 --> 01:30:18,700
grateful for, I don't know how they did it.

1412
01:30:18,700 --> 01:30:20,200
I don't know how they did it.

1413
01:30:20,200 --> 01:30:22,600
I mean, sometimes there were, there were three and four

1414
01:30:22,600 --> 01:30:28,500
funerals a day and they, they were, we lost so many guys

1415
01:30:29,300 --> 01:30:34,000
in, you know, in the towers that there wasn't room for

1416
01:30:34,500 --> 01:30:40,700
not going to work and they just made time.

1417
01:30:40,700 --> 01:30:42,900
I don't know how they made time for all of us.

1418
01:30:42,900 --> 01:30:46,100
I don't, I don't know how, I don't know how they did it

1419
01:30:46,100 --> 01:30:50,100
and not only, I mean, they were displaced, the guys from

1420
01:30:50,100 --> 01:30:53,200
the penthouse were, their firehouse was blown out.

1421
01:30:53,200 --> 01:30:56,900
So they were having to operate out of two other firehouses

1422
01:30:56,900 --> 01:31:01,800
and it was just, and then the jobs that they had to do

1423
01:31:01,800 --> 01:31:05,900
when they gathering, you know, it was just, it was

1424
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:09,000
gathering body parts, like literally that was, that was

1425
01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:10,400
their detail for a while.

1426
01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:15,900
I mean, I don't know how any of them did it.

1427
01:31:16,700 --> 01:31:18,400
No, and I think again, it needs to be acknowledged.

1428
01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:21,900
Even one of my close friends was at Surfside and some

1429
01:31:21,900 --> 01:31:23,900
of them were doing the same thing, you know, finding

1430
01:31:24,100 --> 01:31:26,500
fingers and toes and God knows what else was left.

1431
01:31:27,300 --> 01:31:30,300
But another one of my friends who has again, you talk

1432
01:31:30,300 --> 01:31:34,000
about trauma, his life story is full of trauma and even

1433
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:37,200
his wife right now is battling cancer and you know, those

1434
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:39,900
two are amazing human beings, but he was assigned death

1435
01:31:39,900 --> 01:31:42,900
notifications when they did finally, you know, identify

1436
01:31:42,900 --> 01:31:43,800
someone that deceased.

1437
01:31:43,800 --> 01:31:46,000
So you think about the emotional toll of that and I'm

1438
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:49,500
sure a lot of the members of FD had to do that as well.

1439
01:31:49,500 --> 01:31:52,900
So you'll just, you know, combining all these traumas

1440
01:31:52,900 --> 01:31:56,000
now, then you factor in the exposures, you know, the

1441
01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:59,300
911 cancer, carcinogens that everyone was breathing in

1442
01:31:59,300 --> 01:32:02,200
and around and yeah, I mean, that's a group of people

1443
01:32:02,300 --> 01:32:06,100
that we should be bending over backwards to take care

1444
01:32:06,100 --> 01:32:07,400
of the rest of their lives.

1445
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:10,500
And sadly it appears that that's not always the case.

1446
01:32:10,500 --> 01:32:17,500
Well, they did get that bill passed which was really

1447
01:32:17,500 --> 01:32:22,100
good news, but the number of firemen that we have lost

1448
01:32:22,100 --> 01:32:27,100
to 911 related cancer or not even just the number that

1449
01:32:27,100 --> 01:32:30,500
I've lost, but the number of firemen diagnosed with some

1450
01:32:30,500 --> 01:32:36,200
form of 911 related cancer is the numbers are, I don't

1451
01:32:36,200 --> 01:32:40,500
know them off hands, but they're staggering.

1452
01:32:42,500 --> 01:32:52,600
Jeff's captain at the time, Gene Kelty, he had pancreatic

1453
01:32:52,600 --> 01:32:53,000
cancer.

1454
01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:58,000
Thankfully, he is on the men's, but I have like good

1455
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:01,800
friends of mine, my best friend from high school.

1456
01:33:01,900 --> 01:33:03,500
She married her high school sweetheart.

1457
01:33:03,500 --> 01:33:06,600
So we've all been friends from high school, but he had kidney

1458
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:07,500
cancer.

1459
01:33:09,300 --> 01:33:14,000
Other friends of mine, I mean, what's disturbing about

1460
01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:18,700
it was the untruths that were told around the time, right?

1461
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:22,700
They were told that the air quality was fine when in

1462
01:33:22,700 --> 01:33:24,200
fact it was not.

1463
01:33:26,100 --> 01:33:31,600
So it was just exposure to jet fuel, pulverized concrete,

1464
01:33:31,600 --> 01:33:34,000
you know, all of that.

1465
01:33:34,100 --> 01:33:34,600
Yeah.

1466
01:33:35,700 --> 01:33:36,800
Well, I think that's just it.

1467
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:41,500
We need to acknowledge all of the ripple effects and we're

1468
01:33:41,500 --> 01:33:44,000
going to get into obviously the numbers in a little bit,

1469
01:33:44,000 --> 01:33:48,500
but before we move forward with that, you're there at 912,

1470
01:33:48,500 --> 01:33:51,400
the sun's coming up, you know, your children are probably

1471
01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:52,700
wondering where their dad is.

1472
01:33:53,500 --> 01:33:56,400
Walk me through those next few days and then when did you

1473
01:33:56,400 --> 01:33:58,900
finally learn that Jeff was one of the people that didn't

1474
01:33:58,900 --> 01:34:07,200
make it? I don't I can't even put a timeline to certain

1475
01:34:07,200 --> 01:34:07,500
things.

1476
01:34:07,500 --> 01:34:12,800
Like I don't know the next few days basically consisted of

1477
01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:18,400
me dialing the phone over and over and over again trying to

1478
01:34:18,400 --> 01:34:22,300
get through to the firehouse and not being able to and then

1479
01:34:22,300 --> 01:34:28,600
reaching out to other women in the firehouse to see if they

1480
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:30,300
had heard from their husbands.

1481
01:34:30,700 --> 01:34:36,900
I called Jeff's 24 partners wife thinking that he would have

1482
01:34:36,900 --> 01:34:41,100
not been there because Jeff was working but he had in fact

1483
01:34:41,200 --> 01:34:46,800
gone in and had been detailed to another firehouse.

1484
01:34:47,300 --> 01:34:49,100
So she hadn't heard from him.

1485
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:54,300
So that was one of the guys that we lost in 10 wasn't even

1486
01:34:54,300 --> 01:34:56,100
operating with 10 that day.

1487
01:34:56,100 --> 01:35:05,300
I don't remember what company he was he was with but so yeah,

1488
01:35:05,300 --> 01:35:11,100
it was the days after that were just waiting waiting and hoping

1489
01:35:11,100 --> 01:35:14,500
and praying and I would have guys come and say there were

1490
01:35:14,500 --> 01:35:20,000
voids and there was a good possibility that they were

1491
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:21,200
trapped in these void.

1492
01:35:21,200 --> 01:35:25,800
There would be enough air for them to survive and I always I

1493
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:28,500
tell the story often because it's one of those snapshots

1494
01:35:28,500 --> 01:35:34,400
that I told you about one of Jeff senior guys came in and I

1495
01:35:34,400 --> 01:35:39,600
was like I said hey Eddie, you know how things going over

1496
01:35:39,600 --> 01:35:43,600
there you think you find anybody in the void and he just

1497
01:35:43,600 --> 01:35:47,100
looked at me and tears in his eyes and he just shook his

1498
01:35:47,100 --> 01:35:54,900
head and I got so angry at him like what's the matter with

1499
01:35:54,900 --> 01:35:56,500
you? You know, I didn't say this to him.

1500
01:35:56,500 --> 01:36:00,000
I was just like everybody else has all of this hope and you're

1501
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:00,900
so negative.

1502
01:36:01,000 --> 01:36:08,300
You know, like that was my my idea of just aren't you looking

1503
01:36:08,300 --> 01:36:13,300
don't you want to find them, you know, and my birthday is

1504
01:36:13,300 --> 01:36:14,800
September 25th.

1505
01:36:15,300 --> 01:36:22,800
So I wanted to go up like around that time.

1506
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:25,300
They had been asking me if I wanted to go to the site and I

1507
01:36:25,300 --> 01:36:29,200
kept saying no, no, no, and then I finally decided to go right

1508
01:36:29,200 --> 01:36:33,300
around my birthday and when I got there.

1509
01:36:35,700 --> 01:36:41,500
What I had seen on TV did not I don't want to say didn't do

1510
01:36:41,500 --> 01:36:46,600
it justice because that sounds like but it was so that that

1511
01:36:46,600 --> 01:36:48,300
pile that didn't it.

1512
01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:51,700
I mean it looks big on TV, but when you are actually standing

1513
01:36:51,700 --> 01:36:57,700
in front of it, I mean it was gigantic gigantic.

1514
01:36:57,700 --> 01:37:04,800
It was stories high and blocks wide and I looked at it and I

1515
01:37:04,800 --> 01:37:09,500
was like, how are they ever supposed to find anybody in that

1516
01:37:09,500 --> 01:37:11,700
it's like finding a needle in a haystack.

1517
01:37:11,700 --> 01:37:13,900
How could they ever find anyone in there?

1518
01:37:13,900 --> 01:37:25,700
So I went home and I said to Jeff Jeff and I used to have

1519
01:37:25,700 --> 01:37:29,500
these like crazy conversations when he was alive, but I was

1520
01:37:29,500 --> 01:37:34,600
sitting outside and I said to him I need for you to give me

1521
01:37:34,600 --> 01:37:39,100
a sign like I need for you to let me know that you're okay.

1522
01:37:39,100 --> 01:37:43,100
If you're like when I was there I was like there's no way

1523
01:37:43,100 --> 01:37:44,500
he's alive.

1524
01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:47,700
You know, there was no doubt in my mind.

1525
01:37:49,100 --> 01:37:53,200
So Jeff and I used to go up to Pennsylvania a lot and we

1526
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:55,900
would have the kids in the car and we would on the way up

1527
01:37:55,900 --> 01:37:58,200
there count red tail talks because there really weren't

1528
01:37:58,200 --> 01:38:01,800
any of those on Staten Island at all, but we would see them

1529
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:02,800
on the way up there.

1530
01:38:03,100 --> 01:38:10,100
So I was like if you you know, like if you're not here anymore,

1531
01:38:10,100 --> 01:38:11,700
I want you to send me a hook.

1532
01:38:11,700 --> 01:38:14,900
This is like my internal conversation.

1533
01:38:16,400 --> 01:38:19,700
Not I don't remember how long after that it wasn't long like

1534
01:38:19,700 --> 01:38:20,500
within the week.

1535
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:27,000
I had to go to fill out some paperwork and bring some DNA

1536
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:32,000
from my kids mouths so that if they were if he was recovered

1537
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:33,500
they could identify him.

1538
01:38:35,400 --> 01:38:37,800
Right down all it was just a terrible day.

1539
01:38:37,800 --> 01:38:45,700
So I came back and I go into my backyard all of these firemen

1540
01:38:45,700 --> 01:38:47,700
are standing around and they're all like looking up at the

1541
01:38:47,700 --> 01:38:49,700
sky and I'm like, what are you guys doing?

1542
01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:53,300
They were like these birds been flying over your house for

1543
01:38:53,300 --> 01:38:56,800
hours and I look up and it's the red tail talk.

1544
01:38:58,600 --> 01:39:03,700
So that was like confirmation for me even though it sounds

1545
01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:04,400
crazy.

1546
01:39:04,400 --> 01:39:12,600
I was like, okay, he's he's okay, you know, there was like

1547
01:39:12,600 --> 01:39:16,700
a difference between my heart like what I knew in my soul

1548
01:39:16,700 --> 01:39:18,600
and what my head would say.

1549
01:39:18,900 --> 01:39:23,000
There was like this incongruence that I can't fully explain

1550
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:33,100
but 40 days exactly 40 days after 9-11 Jeff was recovered.

1551
01:39:33,100 --> 01:39:38,800
He was recovered and you know, the 40 days is significant

1552
01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:43,600
if you're Catholic because that was the time that Jesus spent

1553
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:46,000
in the desert right 40 days.

1554
01:39:47,500 --> 01:39:54,300
So that was when I got the official notification which was

1555
01:39:54,600 --> 01:40:01,100
I want to say about three weeks after I had the feeling that

1556
01:40:01,100 --> 01:40:06,900
he wasn't there but after I went to the site I knew that I

1557
01:40:06,900 --> 01:40:12,900
had to give my children some closure and I decided at that

1558
01:40:12,900 --> 01:40:15,700
point that I was going to have a memorial for him whether

1559
01:40:15,700 --> 01:40:18,500
they recovered him or not because I didn't really believe

1560
01:40:18,500 --> 01:40:20,500
that they would be able to recover him.

1561
01:40:20,900 --> 01:40:24,700
So we had an entire funeral.

1562
01:40:24,700 --> 01:40:28,000
We had a casket that we just filled up with everything that

1563
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:33,600
he loved his fishing poles and you know, the kids put drawings

1564
01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:37,100
in there his backpack that he carried around with him everywhere

1565
01:40:37,100 --> 01:40:43,400
his class A's we put it all in there and after we did that

1566
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:45,000
then they recovered him.

1567
01:40:47,500 --> 01:40:51,800
See, I mean there's so many areas that are just heart-wrenching

1568
01:40:51,800 --> 01:40:56,700
like imagining swabbing your child's mouth to send it to see

1569
01:40:56,700 --> 01:40:59,200
if your husband can be identified.

1570
01:40:59,200 --> 01:41:04,000
I mean these are the depths of these stories a single firefighter

1571
01:41:04,000 --> 01:41:07,400
one firefighter of the thousands of people that perished just

1572
01:41:07,400 --> 01:41:08,300
that day alone.

1573
01:41:09,200 --> 01:41:12,600
You know, it's so easy to minimize each of these stories

1574
01:41:12,600 --> 01:41:13,600
through statistics.

1575
01:41:13,700 --> 01:41:14,700
Oh, we lost X amount.

1576
01:41:14,700 --> 01:41:17,600
I mean even this year it's been all about statistics, you know,

1577
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:22,800
but one single life, you know, I mean this is the depth that

1578
01:41:22,800 --> 01:41:27,200
we need to hear it, you know, as as civilians that survive

1579
01:41:27,200 --> 01:41:32,400
this as people that are voting to send our men and women off

1580
01:41:32,400 --> 01:41:34,900
to war or not send them, you know, I mean these are the things

1581
01:41:34,900 --> 01:41:35,800
that we need to hear.

1582
01:41:36,300 --> 01:41:38,600
Now you talked about Catholicism.

1583
01:41:39,300 --> 01:41:43,700
I've had people on here who are deeply specifically religious

1584
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:45,300
and then on that faith.

1585
01:41:45,300 --> 01:41:50,500
I myself am more spiritual generally and take, you know,

1586
01:41:50,500 --> 01:41:53,100
lean more into the principles of love kindness and compassion

1587
01:41:53,100 --> 01:41:54,500
than any specific doctrine.

1588
01:41:55,000 --> 01:42:00,300
What emotionally or spiritually did you lean into, you know,

1589
01:42:00,300 --> 01:42:02,500
whilst grieving, you know, post 9-11?

1590
01:42:05,100 --> 01:42:11,500
I had been exploring listen, I am after this whole entire

1591
01:42:11,500 --> 01:42:14,700
experience in the 20 years since.

1592
01:42:14,700 --> 01:42:22,900
I really have developed I was always I mean, like I said grow

1593
01:42:22,900 --> 01:42:27,700
up Catholic there was there was there was always an underlying

1594
01:42:28,900 --> 01:42:30,800
devotion for me.

1595
01:42:30,800 --> 01:42:35,100
I've I've always felt very connected to something bigger

1596
01:42:35,100 --> 01:42:36,100
than myself.

1597
01:42:36,100 --> 01:42:46,300
I didn't actually subscribe even when I was younger to the to

1598
01:42:46,300 --> 01:42:50,900
the dogma the doctrine all of that with the Catholic with

1599
01:42:50,900 --> 01:42:51,900
the Catholic religion.

1600
01:42:52,200 --> 01:42:54,400
There was so much to it that I was like wait that doesn't

1601
01:42:54,400 --> 01:42:55,000
make sense.

1602
01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:58,100
You said here to do this and here to do that and it just seems

1603
01:42:58,100 --> 01:43:04,100
like, you know, there's so much hypocritical stuff happening

1604
01:43:04,100 --> 01:43:04,400
there.

1605
01:43:04,400 --> 01:43:08,800
I it's in a line for me and I would question it constantly

1606
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:11,500
and get in trouble in school constantly.

1607
01:43:13,500 --> 01:43:17,800
So honestly when I met Jeff, like I said, he was really

1608
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:26,600
into Native American very Earth based belief system and I

1609
01:43:26,600 --> 01:43:34,500
started meditating and somehow it was just like this organic

1610
01:43:35,100 --> 01:43:40,900
switch to I don't feel it was a it was a switch from a fear

1611
01:43:40,900 --> 01:43:44,900
based belief system right Catholicism is oh if you don't

1612
01:43:44,900 --> 01:43:50,200
follow these rules, you're going to go to hell to a love

1613
01:43:50,200 --> 01:44:00,000
based belief system where men are inherently good and men

1614
01:44:00,000 --> 01:44:07,300
and women I should say, you know what I mean, but and that it

1615
01:44:07,300 --> 01:44:10,300
was all this is like all part of the process.

1616
01:44:10,300 --> 01:44:11,700
I am not even kidding you.

1617
01:44:11,700 --> 01:44:17,100
So I started out with oh God, I better go to church, you know,

1618
01:44:17,100 --> 01:44:21,500
like I'm when I say I pray I prayed with my whole heart.

1619
01:44:22,400 --> 01:44:25,700
But when I went to church and my son my the son that was in

1620
01:44:25,700 --> 01:44:28,500
school, my oldest was in Catholic school.

1621
01:44:29,600 --> 01:44:31,800
They did nothing for us.

1622
01:44:31,800 --> 01:44:35,500
I don't mean nothing in the sense of you know, they didn't

1623
01:44:35,500 --> 01:44:38,200
he didn't have to pay tuition and all that but as far as

1624
01:44:38,200 --> 01:44:41,900
the emotional support and not that they didn't offer it.

1625
01:44:41,900 --> 01:44:43,600
It just didn't work for us.

1626
01:44:43,600 --> 01:44:47,900
It was you know, if he was upset over it and he went to the

1627
01:44:47,900 --> 01:44:51,500
office the principal would say to him very lovingly and very

1628
01:44:51,500 --> 01:44:54,000
kindly, you know, she would let him come in whenever he needed

1629
01:44:54,000 --> 01:44:56,700
to but she would say to him well, you just have to have

1630
01:44:56,700 --> 01:44:58,100
faith and pray on it.

1631
01:44:58,100 --> 01:45:02,100
You know, an eight-year-old boy doesn't want to hear that.

1632
01:45:02,100 --> 01:45:16,800
So I just did what came naturally to me which was sit and

1633
01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:23,200
find quiet and pray and hold on to what I knew to be true.

1634
01:45:23,200 --> 01:45:27,000
And I know that it sounds like supernatural woohoo kind of

1635
01:45:27,000 --> 01:45:29,000
stuff, but I really looked for the signs.

1636
01:45:29,000 --> 01:45:31,100
I asked him for signs.

1637
01:45:31,100 --> 01:45:34,100
I looked for the signs and when I got them I believed in them

1638
01:45:34,400 --> 01:45:37,500
and that literally was what pulls me through because there

1639
01:45:37,700 --> 01:45:42,100
were so many of them that we could do an entire episode.

1640
01:45:42,200 --> 01:45:47,200
Yes on that that were undeniable people would be like, are

1641
01:45:47,200 --> 01:45:52,900
you making that up like you I mean, yeah, so so that's and

1642
01:45:52,900 --> 01:45:54,700
and since then.

1643
01:45:57,500 --> 01:46:00,900
It's sort of one of those things where you believe something

1644
01:46:00,900 --> 01:46:05,800
and then it's confirmed so it strengthens your belief and as

1645
01:46:05,900 --> 01:46:08,800
as I've continued on this journey.

1646
01:46:09,200 --> 01:46:11,500
I have learned that.

1647
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:22,100
Yeah, I 100% believe in an energy that is way bigger than

1648
01:46:22,100 --> 01:46:24,800
me with whatever you want to call it.

1649
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:29,300
I don't care and there is certainly a collective consciousness

1650
01:46:29,300 --> 01:46:36,500
right like an energy that comes just from everyone's

1651
01:46:36,500 --> 01:46:40,400
everyone's thoughts feelings and experiences and sort of

1652
01:46:40,500 --> 01:46:43,900
hovers above and infuses all of us.

1653
01:46:44,500 --> 01:46:44,900
Yeah.

1654
01:46:45,900 --> 01:46:48,600
Well, I think this is so important here and is a very

1655
01:46:48,600 --> 01:46:52,200
positive reason why I wanted to see if that was what your

1656
01:46:52,200 --> 01:46:52,900
experience was.

1657
01:46:52,900 --> 01:46:55,400
I got a slight hint of it from that podcast I listened to

1658
01:46:55,400 --> 01:47:00,600
before but I've had people on here and specifically the

1659
01:47:00,600 --> 01:47:04,000
Christian Church, you know, the the the Muslim faith, you

1660
01:47:04,000 --> 01:47:06,800
know, whatever whatever they found themselves in that work

1661
01:47:06,800 --> 01:47:11,100
for them and you said the word belief so but what I want to

1662
01:47:11,400 --> 01:47:14,300
put out there is that there's also people where it didn't

1663
01:47:14,300 --> 01:47:20,000
work for one of my good friends went to oh my God chaplain

1664
01:47:20,000 --> 01:47:22,200
such I always that word always falls out my head.

1665
01:47:22,200 --> 01:47:24,200
So the local chaplain and he was going through his own

1666
01:47:24,200 --> 01:47:28,200
mental health struggles and being told God has a plan have

1667
01:47:28,200 --> 01:47:30,500
faith all this it just didn't resonate with them.

1668
01:47:30,700 --> 01:47:34,000
So I think it's important that for people to hear that even

1669
01:47:34,000 --> 01:47:37,000
if you were raised in a certain doctrine if that doesn't

1670
01:47:37,000 --> 01:47:39,300
work, it doesn't mean that therefore you are doomed.

1671
01:47:39,300 --> 01:47:43,000
It may be, you know, molding the clay a little bit and

1672
01:47:43,100 --> 01:47:45,700
creating your own personal version of your faith.

1673
01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:50,600
I think is very important and I find that's what was sad.

1674
01:47:50,600 --> 01:47:53,500
We're talking about an event that was supposedly because

1675
01:47:53,500 --> 01:47:55,800
of religious differences, which I disagree.

1676
01:47:55,800 --> 01:47:58,500
I think it was about money power and greed fundamentally

1677
01:47:58,500 --> 01:48:03,300
if you look at it, but you know when we start focusing on

1678
01:48:03,300 --> 01:48:07,400
minutiae is when there's this conflicts fundamentally.

1679
01:48:08,100 --> 01:48:10,900
I think all you know, all the the accepted religious

1680
01:48:10,900 --> 01:48:14,400
doctrines agree with each other be kind be compassionate

1681
01:48:14,400 --> 01:48:16,500
be generous, you know, take care of each other.

1682
01:48:16,900 --> 01:48:19,500
Don't murder rape pillage, you know, I mean that they're

1683
01:48:19,500 --> 01:48:21,600
pretty fundamental things through all of them.

1684
01:48:21,600 --> 01:48:25,900
So, you know, I think that therefore there is, you know,

1685
01:48:25,900 --> 01:48:29,300
that you said God higher energy universe, whatever we

1686
01:48:29,300 --> 01:48:33,000
even the agnostic atheist, whatever tend to still believe

1687
01:48:33,000 --> 01:48:33,800
in the same thing.

1688
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:35,300
They just again term it differently.

1689
01:48:35,600 --> 01:48:39,000
But yeah, that we're we're definitely part of something

1690
01:48:39,000 --> 01:48:41,800
much bigger and I think that we all are related and there

1691
01:48:41,800 --> 01:48:43,000
was energy when we were alive.

1692
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:45,800
Why wouldn't there be energy when we, you know, move

1693
01:48:45,800 --> 01:48:49,900
transition to whatever form it is and my wife lost her

1694
01:48:49,900 --> 01:48:52,500
boyfriend before me to suicide.

1695
01:48:52,900 --> 01:48:56,700
I have witnessed with my own eyes, Danny sending Becky

1696
01:48:56,700 --> 01:49:01,100
messages through battery powered bookshelf lights that

1697
01:49:01,100 --> 01:49:05,500
had no reason to be blinking on and off to things sounding

1698
01:49:05,500 --> 01:49:08,100
like they fell off a table and there's nothing around to

1699
01:49:08,100 --> 01:49:10,100
fall off or to even make that sound.

1700
01:49:10,100 --> 01:49:13,900
I mean just so yeah, I mean I agree whether you call it

1701
01:49:13,900 --> 01:49:16,400
a miracle whether it's Jesus or Buddha or Muhammad or

1702
01:49:16,400 --> 01:49:19,100
whoever, I think that that's just it.

1703
01:49:19,100 --> 01:49:22,300
We don't we don't need to stay in little boxes.

1704
01:49:22,300 --> 01:49:24,400
You put yourself in whatever box you want to make for

1705
01:49:24,400 --> 01:49:27,100
yourself, but that's your own personal box and you

1706
01:49:27,100 --> 01:49:29,400
should be allowed to define it.

1707
01:49:29,400 --> 01:49:32,600
However, you want as long as you're not forcing on someone

1708
01:49:32,600 --> 01:49:33,000
else.

1709
01:49:34,300 --> 01:49:37,600
I want to I want to address two things that you said in

1710
01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:44,400
that one being how most religions are all saying the

1711
01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:45,300
same thing, right?

1712
01:49:45,300 --> 01:49:48,500
It's sort of it's sort of I mean, I in my opinion religions

1713
01:49:48,500 --> 01:49:56,400
were were created to sort of give a value structure to

1714
01:49:56,400 --> 01:49:57,700
societies, right?

1715
01:49:58,000 --> 01:50:03,400
So they all do have similar messages.

1716
01:50:03,400 --> 01:50:07,900
I started studying different religions after this because

1717
01:50:08,500 --> 01:50:09,700
I was just interested.

1718
01:50:09,700 --> 01:50:15,500
I didn't know a lot about Islam and I wanted to be more

1719
01:50:15,500 --> 01:50:19,900
because I was like how could a religion be so hateful and

1720
01:50:19,900 --> 01:50:21,300
after 9-eleven?

1721
01:50:22,400 --> 01:50:27,200
I don't remember who said this but there was a it was a

1722
01:50:27,200 --> 01:50:27,700
chaplain.

1723
01:50:27,700 --> 01:50:31,700
It's like there was another chaplain who is speaking on

1724
01:50:33,700 --> 01:50:37,200
the whole like you said, you know religious differences

1725
01:50:37,200 --> 01:50:39,100
and and the point that he made.

1726
01:50:39,100 --> 01:50:40,600
Oh my God, it's stuck with me.

1727
01:50:40,600 --> 01:50:45,900
He said for every religion right there's oh when there's

1728
01:50:46,100 --> 01:50:50,100
there's once they start to become radical right there

1729
01:50:50,100 --> 01:50:54,300
there is and there's a power struggle in and the inherent

1730
01:50:54,300 --> 01:50:58,500
evil that comes with that and you find that in every single

1731
01:50:58,500 --> 01:50:59,100
religion.

1732
01:50:59,300 --> 01:51:04,300
It's not just Islam like we had David Kourash Catholics had

1733
01:51:04,300 --> 01:51:05,200
David Kourash right?

1734
01:51:05,200 --> 01:51:08,700
He took the Bible and turns it into a means of manipulating

1735
01:51:08,700 --> 01:51:13,700
people for his own his own use and that was so was that

1736
01:51:13,700 --> 01:51:14,200
Waco?

1737
01:51:15,200 --> 01:51:15,500
Yeah.

1738
01:51:17,400 --> 01:51:22,000
So I mean every religion there's there's always people who

1739
01:51:22,000 --> 01:51:29,300
take these belief systems that are based on love and kindness

1740
01:51:29,300 --> 01:51:37,500
and turn them into something that is just evil.

1741
01:51:37,500 --> 01:51:40,200
Self-serving and self-serving.

1742
01:51:40,200 --> 01:51:42,800
Yeah, which is the opposite of love compassion and kindness,

1743
01:51:43,300 --> 01:51:43,800
right?

1744
01:51:44,300 --> 01:51:46,300
So there's a huge irony that they take something that

1745
01:51:46,300 --> 01:51:49,300
originally was was intended to do good in the world and they

1746
01:51:49,300 --> 01:51:50,700
make it to do bad in the world.

1747
01:51:51,200 --> 01:51:51,600
Yeah.

1748
01:51:52,300 --> 01:51:52,700
Yep.

1749
01:51:53,700 --> 01:51:58,200
So with with that then you you know, you're you're finding

1750
01:51:58,200 --> 01:51:59,600
your own spiritual path.

1751
01:51:59,600 --> 01:52:02,400
At what point did you come across yoga and realize that

1752
01:52:02,400 --> 01:52:05,800
that was again as we talked about earlier the healing

1753
01:52:05,800 --> 01:52:09,000
physical side to add to the emotional growth.

1754
01:52:09,700 --> 01:52:13,100
Well, honestly when I first went to yoga, it wasn't even

1755
01:52:13,100 --> 01:52:15,700
like for any kind of spiritual reason.

1756
01:52:16,200 --> 01:52:19,300
I was still in the midst of the shit show as I like to call

1757
01:52:19,300 --> 01:52:22,200
it because I was very busy.

1758
01:52:22,200 --> 01:52:30,000
I knew instantly I knew that I had like I felt myself fall

1759
01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:30,500
apart.

1760
01:52:30,500 --> 01:52:40,800
And my biggest fear was I wasn't going to be able to well,

1761
01:52:40,800 --> 01:52:42,900
not that I wasn't going to be able to take care of my kids.

1762
01:52:42,900 --> 01:52:44,700
I wasn't so concerned about that.

1763
01:52:44,700 --> 01:52:49,000
What I was concerned about was how do I tell them and rate

1764
01:52:49,000 --> 01:52:54,100
and in the in the in a way where I don't destroy their

1765
01:52:54,100 --> 01:52:59,900
belief in humanity and where this one event as as

1766
01:52:59,900 --> 01:53:06,700
devastating as it was doesn't become devastating in terms

1767
01:53:06,700 --> 01:53:09,400
of the rest of their lives, right?

1768
01:53:09,400 --> 01:53:14,500
How do I raise children that still finds good in the world?

1769
01:53:14,500 --> 01:53:17,900
And so I went to therapy like instantly because it's like

1770
01:53:17,900 --> 01:53:20,000
I don't know where the frig do I start with that.

1771
01:53:20,000 --> 01:53:23,900
Let me go talk to somebody right so and I wanted to know

1772
01:53:23,900 --> 01:53:28,700
like I didn't I didn't know how my reaction anyway, so I

1773
01:53:28,700 --> 01:53:35,500
started with therapy in October like right after and I was

1774
01:53:35,500 --> 01:53:36,500
going to therapy.

1775
01:53:36,500 --> 01:53:40,900
I was working out because I I would have not like to work

1776
01:53:40,900 --> 01:53:41,100
out.

1777
01:53:41,100 --> 01:53:46,400
I would have rather lay in my bed every day and disappear

1778
01:53:46,400 --> 01:53:48,100
but I couldn't do that.

1779
01:53:48,100 --> 01:53:50,800
My sister would drag me to the gym and I knew that movement

1780
01:53:50,800 --> 01:53:51,900
made me feel better.

1781
01:53:51,900 --> 01:53:55,800
I didn't know anything about any of this any of the real,

1782
01:53:55,800 --> 01:53:58,800
you know science behind or anything.

1783
01:53:58,800 --> 01:54:04,800
I just knew that okay when I move I feel better and the

1784
01:54:04,800 --> 01:54:07,300
whole thing with the spirituality like go to church

1785
01:54:07,300 --> 01:54:11,300
didn't work and would have what I found this at one moment

1786
01:54:11,300 --> 01:54:16,100
I would feel like mentally strong and maybe my body

1787
01:54:16,100 --> 01:54:20,300
didn't feel great or my body felt great, but I was falling

1788
01:54:20,300 --> 01:54:23,300
apart in my head and you know, I couldn't find something

1789
01:54:23,300 --> 01:54:24,300
to pull it all together.

1790
01:54:24,300 --> 01:54:26,000
I had moved to Jersey.

1791
01:54:26,000 --> 01:54:31,000
I was working out like a maniac at this point because you

1792
01:54:31,000 --> 01:54:34,100
know your body can only experience one pain at a time.

1793
01:54:34,100 --> 01:54:38,500
So I was doing that and I got so stiff.

1794
01:54:38,500 --> 01:54:41,800
I was like, I got a stretch or something like I'm always

1795
01:54:41,800 --> 01:54:42,300
sore.

1796
01:54:42,300 --> 01:54:44,400
So I saw a yoga studio.

1797
01:54:44,400 --> 01:54:47,800
I was like, oh, I didn't really know anything about yoga.

1798
01:54:47,800 --> 01:54:51,500
I said, let me just hop in here and see how it goes and I

1799
01:54:51,500 --> 01:54:55,300
had no idea that it was a hot yoga studio.

1800
01:54:55,300 --> 01:54:59,700
Bikram in particular, if you don't know what that is, it's

1801
01:54:59,700 --> 01:55:02,500
105 degrees 26 poses.

1802
01:55:03,800 --> 01:55:05,400
People were half naked.

1803
01:55:05,400 --> 01:55:08,300
I was like in sweatpants ready for a workout.

1804
01:55:08,300 --> 01:55:12,300
I thought I was going to die and I was like, what am I

1805
01:55:12,300 --> 01:55:16,800
doing in here at the end of the class, you know, the final

1806
01:55:16,800 --> 01:55:20,700
pose in yoga is called Shavasana and it's corpse pose

1807
01:55:20,700 --> 01:55:24,800
like you lay there and you just integrate all the, you

1808
01:55:24,800 --> 01:55:26,700
know, newly oxygenated blood.

1809
01:55:26,700 --> 01:55:31,600
You let everything settle and all of that and I found myself

1810
01:55:31,600 --> 01:55:34,700
like tears were just pouring and I'm like, oh my God, thank

1811
01:55:34,700 --> 01:55:34,900
God.

1812
01:55:34,900 --> 01:55:38,000
It's so freaking sweaty in here because why am I crying?

1813
01:55:38,000 --> 01:55:46,800
I'm crying like so I left and when I left I had this lightness.

1814
01:55:46,800 --> 01:55:52,500
I felt happy for no reason and that was I wouldn't say it

1815
01:55:52,500 --> 01:55:58,500
was the first time but it was so noticeable to me that I

1816
01:55:58,500 --> 01:56:02,200
was kind of like, am I happy because of this yoga class or

1817
01:56:02,200 --> 01:56:06,000
is it just because two years now has gone by like is time

1818
01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:06,800
healing my wounds.

1819
01:56:06,800 --> 01:56:10,600
I just feel happy like I felt like myself for a split second

1820
01:56:10,600 --> 01:56:15,400
and I didn't know if it was the yoga or not, but I decided

1821
01:56:15,400 --> 01:56:20,900
to go back and then I realized after going I'm like, wow,

1822
01:56:20,900 --> 01:56:28,000
this feels different and I stopped working out and I just

1823
01:56:28,000 --> 01:56:33,500
started doing yoga every day and that was when that was when

1824
01:56:33,800 --> 01:56:40,300
my healing was not only put on fast forward, but it was grief

1825
01:56:40,300 --> 01:56:45,700
was given a name and it was also I just gained so much

1826
01:56:45,700 --> 01:56:53,400
clarity around the way my body was feeling the way my the

1827
01:56:53,400 --> 01:56:58,700
sadness that I felt how it was connected to other experiences

1828
01:56:58,700 --> 01:56:59,600
in my life.

1829
01:56:59,900 --> 01:57:03,400
Like it sort of just brought it all together and I thought

1830
01:57:03,400 --> 01:57:07,000
I sounds like the Holy Grail everybody at that point.

1831
01:57:07,000 --> 01:57:08,600
I was like everybody needs to do yoga.

1832
01:57:08,600 --> 01:57:12,400
This is like this is the key to happiness and everyone in

1833
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:15,900
the world should be doing it and I acted like that for a

1834
01:57:15,900 --> 01:57:16,500
long time.

1835
01:57:16,500 --> 01:57:18,700
Like I wanted everybody to see yoga.

1836
01:57:20,000 --> 01:57:21,700
So what did you witness then?

1837
01:57:21,700 --> 01:57:25,800
I mean they said you two years gone now, you know, how how

1838
01:57:25,800 --> 01:57:29,400
much of that magnify the healing of course, it's not forgetting.

1839
01:57:29,400 --> 01:57:30,800
It's not getting over.

1840
01:57:30,800 --> 01:57:33,600
I mean you're going to have that void, you know in your

1841
01:57:33,600 --> 01:57:36,400
heart for the rest of your life, but what what did you

1842
01:57:36,400 --> 01:57:39,900
see shift when you really started practicing regularly?

1843
01:57:42,100 --> 01:57:45,800
Energetically, I know this now so I can put words to it.

1844
01:57:45,800 --> 01:57:50,100
I probably wouldn't have been able to back then but energetically

1845
01:57:50,400 --> 01:57:57,000
every emotion has a vibration right and grief is one of those

1846
01:57:57,000 --> 01:58:05,900
and trauma are very low vibrating emotions as you would

1847
01:58:05,900 --> 01:58:12,200
suspect and we have the ability to raise that love love is

1848
01:58:12,200 --> 01:58:17,500
the highest vibrating emotion and these can be measured,

1849
01:58:17,700 --> 01:58:21,200
you know, so there there is science behind it.

1850
01:58:21,900 --> 01:58:29,500
I think the movement the specific movements in yoga yoga

1851
01:58:29,500 --> 01:58:31,000
works on a cellular level.

1852
01:58:31,000 --> 01:58:33,300
It's not just stretching your muscles.

1853
01:58:33,300 --> 01:58:47,800
And so just being and being being more in tune with my body

1854
01:58:47,800 --> 01:58:53,700
tapping deep, you know into my intuition and recognizing it

1855
01:58:53,700 --> 01:59:00,800
as that being able to see the full circle of life and

1856
01:59:00,800 --> 01:59:10,300
also I want to think of the right words to say this.

1857
01:59:12,500 --> 01:59:17,100
There's a level when you you know being able to be in a group

1858
01:59:17,100 --> 01:59:20,800
of people that work on a soul level was was eye-opening for

1859
01:59:20,800 --> 01:59:24,200
me because most people don't speak in those terms even if

1860
01:59:24,200 --> 01:59:28,200
they do work, you know, even if that's their belief system,

1861
01:59:28,200 --> 01:59:31,300
they don't talk about it all the time because you people think

1862
01:59:31,300 --> 01:59:36,800
it's you know, like it's so crazy, but I realized the role

1863
01:59:36,800 --> 01:59:42,100
that Jeff played in my life and how every single experience

1864
01:59:42,100 --> 01:59:47,900
up to meeting him served a purpose how I was well equipped

1865
01:59:48,700 --> 01:59:52,600
to handle everything that was given to me and that what I

1866
01:59:52,600 --> 01:59:56,700
put my attention on is that was probably the biggest thing

1867
01:59:56,700 --> 01:59:58,400
that I would see.

1868
01:59:58,400 --> 02:00:04,100
So if I held myself in a state of gratitude daily, I would

1869
02:00:04,100 --> 02:00:09,600
see positivity throughout the day if I woke up and I was like

1870
02:00:09,600 --> 02:00:13,800
my god another day like, you know, that was how I would feel

1871
02:00:13,800 --> 02:00:14,500
all day.

1872
02:00:15,300 --> 02:00:20,400
So I learned that I could change my own vibration by moving

1873
02:00:20,400 --> 02:00:27,200
my body music what I put into my body as far as nutrition my

1874
02:00:27,200 --> 02:00:29,700
belief system meditating all of that.

1875
02:00:29,700 --> 02:00:33,500
It just it just changed.

1876
02:00:33,500 --> 02:00:41,100
I guess not just my mindset, but my whole being beautiful.

1877
02:00:41,100 --> 02:00:43,200
Well one more thing, you know about healing and then we'll

1878
02:00:43,200 --> 02:00:47,600
move forward because I want to hear how you found OEW that

1879
02:00:47,600 --> 02:00:51,400
was your journey.

1880
02:00:51,400 --> 02:00:55,000
You had young children who lost their father.

1881
02:00:55,000 --> 02:01:00,200
How were you able to to again stop that cycle of trauma?

1882
02:01:00,200 --> 02:01:02,800
I mean, of course the trauma was there, but how were you able

1883
02:01:02,800 --> 02:01:07,000
to kind of apply your healing philosophy to your children

1884
02:01:07,000 --> 02:01:10,500
and try and minimize the damage that losing their father had

1885
02:01:10,500 --> 02:01:11,200
done to them?

1886
02:01:11,200 --> 02:01:12,700
All right.

1887
02:01:12,700 --> 02:01:17,200
So this was something that I wasn't sure if I was actually

1888
02:01:17,200 --> 02:01:20,800
doing right, you know, it was kind of like I was just winging

1889
02:01:20,800 --> 02:01:23,700
it because I was you know, I didn't really know anyone that

1890
02:01:23,700 --> 02:01:27,700
we had ever been in my position before so young with three

1891
02:01:27,700 --> 02:01:29,300
kids that lost their husband.

1892
02:01:29,300 --> 02:01:33,200
So I really was just but my therapist said something to me

1893
02:01:33,200 --> 02:01:37,300
that stuck with me and I just prayed that she was right.

1894
02:01:37,300 --> 02:01:40,300
She said that I set the tone.

1895
02:01:40,300 --> 02:01:49,000
I set the tone by how how I handle my greets will model for

1896
02:01:49,000 --> 02:01:53,600
them how they should handle their grief.

1897
02:01:53,600 --> 02:01:58,700
So she said to me, I like I said, I wasn't a crier.

1898
02:01:58,700 --> 02:02:02,300
She said that always be open always be honest.

1899
02:02:02,300 --> 02:02:04,000
Don't hide your feelings.

1900
02:02:04,000 --> 02:02:08,100
Even if you feel like they're upsetting to them, you can

1901
02:02:08,100 --> 02:02:11,300
always say to them, you know, it's okay to cry when you get

1902
02:02:11,300 --> 02:02:11,700
sad.

1903
02:02:11,700 --> 02:02:17,100
Sometimes you cry and this way they were able to feel

1904
02:02:17,100 --> 02:02:19,600
comfortable with whatever came up for them.

1905
02:02:19,600 --> 02:02:23,900
My older guy went to therapy.

1906
02:02:23,900 --> 02:02:27,300
He went for a little bit.

1907
02:02:27,300 --> 02:02:32,700
It you know, at that age, he really they did some play

1908
02:02:32,700 --> 02:02:33,200
therapy.

1909
02:02:33,200 --> 02:02:37,500
Some things came up at the therapist basically said to me

1910
02:02:37,500 --> 02:02:40,700
you'll revisit this again when he's in his teens, which we

1911
02:02:40,700 --> 02:02:49,700
did and then I think one of the most important we talk about

1912
02:02:49,700 --> 02:02:56,600
Jeff to this day regularly and it was about experiences my

1913
02:02:56,600 --> 02:03:00,800
life with them became about experiences like showing them

1914
02:03:00,800 --> 02:03:07,800
that the world was the world's was good that they were safe

1915
02:03:07,800 --> 02:03:13,900
and we just did I mean, you know, I tried to expose them

1916
02:03:13,900 --> 02:03:17,600
to as many things as I could so they could find what made

1917
02:03:17,600 --> 02:03:19,800
them feel feel good.

1918
02:03:19,800 --> 02:03:23,800
So a lot of snowboarding traveling skiing.

1919
02:03:23,800 --> 02:03:25,200
I don't know.

1920
02:03:25,200 --> 02:03:28,900
We're always kayaking biking, you know, we were always doing

1921
02:03:28,900 --> 02:03:34,800
something and what I found for each of them is when they

1922
02:03:34,800 --> 02:03:37,800
went away to college that first year in college being away

1923
02:03:37,800 --> 02:03:45,000
from home not being in a familiar environment not having

1924
02:03:45,000 --> 02:03:46,900
the same routine.

1925
02:03:46,900 --> 02:03:52,200
They all I mean, I think every freshman struggles but they

1926
02:03:52,200 --> 02:03:57,900
in particular had had some revisiting to do a lot of

1927
02:03:57,900 --> 02:04:00,300
questions would cut all three of them.

1928
02:04:00,300 --> 02:04:03,400
They started asking me a lot of questions around 9-eleven

1929
02:04:03,400 --> 02:04:06,900
had it, you know, where exactly was daddy.

1930
02:04:06,900 --> 02:04:08,100
What was the story?

1931
02:04:08,100 --> 02:04:09,400
Is there anybody here?

1932
02:04:09,400 --> 02:04:12,100
I had one of the firemen actually talked to my oldest

1933
02:04:12,100 --> 02:04:12,400
son.

1934
02:04:12,400 --> 02:04:15,000
He wanted to know like what happened that day.

1935
02:04:15,000 --> 02:04:19,300
So one of the firemen that was there was kind enough to sit

1936
02:04:19,300 --> 02:04:24,700
with him and tell him everything he remembered and that's

1937
02:04:24,700 --> 02:04:25,400
how he did it.

1938
02:04:25,400 --> 02:04:28,300
So I wasn't sure if what I was doing was right.

1939
02:04:28,300 --> 02:04:31,900
Like I would always offer for them to go to therapy if they

1940
02:04:31,900 --> 02:04:33,400
needed it or whatever.

1941
02:04:35,100 --> 02:04:41,800
But now that they're adults I can say that I did something

1942
02:04:41,800 --> 02:04:42,100
right.

1943
02:04:42,100 --> 02:04:45,700
I don't know because they're all amazing.

1944
02:04:45,700 --> 02:04:49,200
They're all well-adjusted healthy happy.

1945
02:04:50,000 --> 02:04:51,800
You know, my oldest is married.

1946
02:04:51,800 --> 02:04:53,000
He just had a baby.

1947
02:04:53,000 --> 02:04:58,800
So I'm a grandma and he's doing great and my daughter is getting

1948
02:04:58,800 --> 02:04:59,900
her graduate degree.

1949
02:04:59,900 --> 02:05:05,400
My youngest is just finishing up at University of Tampa and

1950
02:05:05,400 --> 02:05:10,100
yeah, they're all happy healthy kids.

1951
02:05:10,100 --> 02:05:11,300
Beautiful.

1952
02:05:11,300 --> 02:05:15,500
Well, it's interesting hearing your oldest wanting to hear

1953
02:05:15,500 --> 02:05:16,300
from a firefighter.

1954
02:05:16,300 --> 02:05:21,200
I had Debbie Leon who is a Gold Star mother her son Mark Lee

1955
02:05:21,200 --> 02:05:22,600
who actually was killed today.

1956
02:05:22,600 --> 02:05:24,000
This is the anniversary of his death.

1957
02:05:24,000 --> 02:05:29,700
He was the first seal that was killed in Iraq and you know,

1958
02:05:29,700 --> 02:05:32,200
one of the healing things for her was just having other

1959
02:05:32,200 --> 02:05:36,300
seals tell her stories and there's always unique perspectives

1960
02:05:36,300 --> 02:05:39,100
and you know, that they just paint a picture, you know,

1961
02:05:39,100 --> 02:05:41,300
think a lot of these people just want to know and even if

1962
02:05:41,300 --> 02:05:44,100
it was bad, they just want to know they want it adds layers

1963
02:05:44,100 --> 02:05:48,600
it adds color to that tapestry that was their their experience

1964
02:05:48,600 --> 02:05:51,000
of their son or mother or father or you know, whatever it

1965
02:05:51,000 --> 02:05:51,300
was.

1966
02:05:51,300 --> 02:05:54,400
So that's a powerful perspective to hear from you as well.

1967
02:05:54,400 --> 02:05:59,500
I think there's also something to be said for I know with

1968
02:05:59,500 --> 02:06:04,500
operate with special forces in particular.

1969
02:06:04,500 --> 02:06:11,000
I've done some work with, you know, the Gold Star Gold Star

1970
02:06:11,000 --> 02:06:11,500
widows.

1971
02:06:11,500 --> 02:06:21,200
The similarity between between losing your husband when he

1972
02:06:21,200 --> 02:06:24,100
is in special forces and to 9-eleven.

1973
02:06:24,100 --> 02:06:27,300
I didn't even realize that until you know, I started working

1974
02:06:27,300 --> 02:06:30,800
with them, but there's there's something to be said for not

1975
02:06:30,800 --> 02:06:32,600
knowing where someone is right.

1976
02:06:32,600 --> 02:06:37,400
A lot of times they have no idea where their husbands are.

1977
02:06:37,400 --> 02:06:42,800
Everything is, you know, it's it's kept its national security.

1978
02:06:42,800 --> 02:06:47,800
So they're not allowed to know where they are often that they

1979
02:06:47,800 --> 02:06:51,700
don't I know some of the widows that I worked at didn't get

1980
02:06:51,700 --> 02:06:54,400
any, you know, they never got to see their husband again.

1981
02:06:54,400 --> 02:06:56,400
There was no it was just like me with Jeff.

1982
02:06:56,400 --> 02:06:59,600
I never got to see him again, even though we got his remains

1983
02:06:59,600 --> 02:07:00,100
back.

1984
02:07:01,000 --> 02:07:03,800
It was literally remains, you know, you don't get to see a

1985
02:07:03,800 --> 02:07:11,100
face and it's very hard to come to terms with losing someone

1986
02:07:11,100 --> 02:07:15,100
when you don't actually see them not alive.

1987
02:07:15,100 --> 02:07:20,100
So for kids, I would imagine that that would be magnified

1988
02:07:20,100 --> 02:07:21,700
and those stories mean everything.

1989
02:07:21,700 --> 02:07:24,300
It helps you put the pieces together because there's like a

1990
02:07:24,300 --> 02:07:25,200
gaping hole.

1991
02:07:25,200 --> 02:07:26,100
You don't know.

1992
02:07:26,100 --> 02:07:27,900
I don't really know what happened to Jeff.

1993
02:07:27,900 --> 02:07:28,900
I know he went in there.

1994
02:07:28,900 --> 02:07:30,500
You know, the towers fell.

1995
02:07:30,500 --> 02:07:33,800
I had heard stories of what happened while he was in there,

1996
02:07:33,800 --> 02:07:37,100
but I don't really know because no one that was with him is

1997
02:07:37,100 --> 02:07:40,900
alive to tell me and it's often it's the same thing in the

1998
02:07:40,900 --> 02:07:41,700
military.

1999
02:07:41,700 --> 02:07:45,300
They don't actually know what happened.

2000
02:07:45,300 --> 02:07:48,700
It's such a powerful, you know, perspective and such a

2001
02:07:48,700 --> 02:07:51,900
tragic perspective and even it's kind of reminded me of something

2002
02:07:51,900 --> 02:07:52,900
that I just learned recently.

2003
02:07:52,900 --> 02:07:57,000
I had some a group of firefighter wives on the show and

2004
02:07:57,000 --> 02:08:01,600
they range from their partners were volunteers all the way

2005
02:08:01,600 --> 02:08:05,000
through to career and it's kind of an element of that too.

2006
02:08:05,000 --> 02:08:09,100
The career men and women go off and we're at a station.

2007
02:08:09,100 --> 02:08:12,300
So as you said special operations is a negative side.

2008
02:08:12,300 --> 02:08:15,000
There was actually a positive side because they also didn't

2009
02:08:15,000 --> 02:08:16,900
know where they were going.

2010
02:08:16,900 --> 02:08:20,500
They didn't hear us get toned out to some god-awful fire.

2011
02:08:20,500 --> 02:08:21,600
Right, right, right.

2012
02:08:21,600 --> 02:08:25,600
So we just left but the volunteer families, they hear the

2013
02:08:25,600 --> 02:08:26,100
pager.

2014
02:08:26,100 --> 02:08:28,400
They hear the radio report, whatever it is and they know

2015
02:08:28,400 --> 02:08:33,600
daddy's going off to some horrendous fire or some mass

2016
02:08:33,600 --> 02:08:37,500
shooting or whatever that, you know, immediately alarms the

2017
02:08:37,500 --> 02:08:39,800
entire family before they even walk through the door.

2018
02:08:39,800 --> 02:08:42,600
So that actually magnifies in a way the trauma for that

2019
02:08:42,600 --> 02:08:43,600
particular thing.

2020
02:08:43,600 --> 02:08:46,600
So yes, they saw a moments prior but they don't know if

2021
02:08:46,600 --> 02:08:49,700
they're going to see him again versus I packed my bag at,

2022
02:08:49,700 --> 02:08:50,600
you know, 5 a.m.

2023
02:08:50,600 --> 02:08:55,500
for 14 years, walked out the door and really my family just

2024
02:08:55,500 --> 02:08:59,700
assumed I'd walk back 24 hours later, you know, so it is a

2025
02:08:59,700 --> 02:09:02,600
very interesting hearing all these different views and how

2026
02:09:02,600 --> 02:09:05,500
they factor in either positively or negatively.

2027
02:09:05,500 --> 02:09:07,000
Yeah.

2028
02:09:07,000 --> 02:09:14,300
Yeah, and I think even as you're as you're going as you're

2029
02:09:14,300 --> 02:09:17,800
going through it, some of these things they don't you don't

2030
02:09:17,800 --> 02:09:23,000
I would I would stay up nights.

2031
02:09:23,000 --> 02:09:27,000
I mean, I was in this cycle immediately after September

2032
02:09:27,000 --> 02:09:28,700
11th where I couldn't sleep right.

2033
02:09:28,700 --> 02:09:32,400
So I would be up like two three days in a row almost and then

2034
02:09:32,400 --> 02:09:35,400
just pass out from exhaustion was it was crazy.

2035
02:09:35,400 --> 02:09:41,000
But I would I would be on the computer looking for anything

2036
02:09:41,000 --> 02:09:47,300
anything just to try to create a story around what happened

2037
02:09:47,300 --> 02:09:47,900
to him.

2038
02:09:47,900 --> 02:09:56,700
So when people share with you different experiences, it's

2039
02:09:56,700 --> 02:10:01,800
it's almost like you're you're so hungry for it that you don't

2040
02:10:01,800 --> 02:10:08,600
you don't you don't even understand the importance of it

2041
02:10:08,600 --> 02:10:10,000
until you look back on it.

2042
02:10:10,000 --> 02:10:11,500
If that does that make any sense?

2043
02:10:11,500 --> 02:10:14,300
I don't know if I'm getting across that I'm trying to say

2044
02:10:14,300 --> 02:10:17,700
but when I look back on it now and I think of conversations

2045
02:10:17,700 --> 02:10:20,900
that I had with different with different firemen different

2046
02:10:20,900 --> 02:10:24,000
family members different, you know, civilians that were in

2047
02:10:24,000 --> 02:10:29,600
the area everybody's I at the time I could only I could only

2048
02:10:29,600 --> 02:10:32,800
take in what was happening in my world.

2049
02:10:32,800 --> 02:10:38,100
Now I can see the bigger picture and appreciate everyone

2050
02:10:38,100 --> 02:10:39,600
else's perspectives.

2051
02:10:39,600 --> 02:10:42,400
I didn't have that capacity.

2052
02:10:42,400 --> 02:10:47,100
So I could hear what they were saying as it affected me, but

2053
02:10:47,100 --> 02:10:51,100
I didn't see the bigger, you know, like I couldn't even see

2054
02:10:51,100 --> 02:10:51,900
the bigger picture.

2055
02:10:51,900 --> 02:10:53,800
Absolutely.

2056
02:10:53,800 --> 02:10:56,900
Well, I know we had kind of touched on this before we start

2057
02:10:56,900 --> 02:10:57,500
recording.

2058
02:10:57,500 --> 02:11:00,400
I want to make sure we get to it before we transition to

2059
02:11:00,400 --> 02:11:03,800
rucking what you're doing now and then some closing questions

2060
02:11:03,800 --> 02:11:04,600
if you've got time.

2061
02:11:04,600 --> 02:11:10,600
Yeah, so when September 11th happened I was in Japan and it

2062
02:11:10,600 --> 02:11:12,200
was a strange thing.

2063
02:11:12,200 --> 02:11:13,100
There was a time difference.

2064
02:11:13,100 --> 02:11:15,100
It was actually night nighttime in Japan.

2065
02:11:15,100 --> 02:11:19,900
My son's mother and I had been out for a meal.

2066
02:11:19,900 --> 02:11:22,900
We came back and this big apartment building that was

2067
02:11:22,900 --> 02:11:25,800
basically half Australian half American and a few of us

2068
02:11:25,800 --> 02:11:28,100
Europeans thrown in there.

2069
02:11:28,100 --> 02:11:31,300
Normally it's everyone's in their room.

2070
02:11:31,300 --> 02:11:34,500
Well, there's this communal TV room downstairs and the whole

2071
02:11:34,500 --> 02:11:36,700
building is in front of the TV and we're like what the hell

2072
02:11:36,700 --> 02:11:40,500
is going on and they told us all planes hit a tower in New

2073
02:11:40,500 --> 02:11:42,600
York and we're like, oh no, you know, that's awful.

2074
02:11:42,600 --> 02:11:46,100
And then right when we're like two minutes after we walked in

2075
02:11:46,100 --> 02:11:47,200
the second plane here.

2076
02:11:47,200 --> 02:11:51,000
So I think one of my friends one of her family members, I

2077
02:11:51,000 --> 02:11:52,300
think it was her sister was in there.

2078
02:11:52,300 --> 02:11:53,800
She actually managed to make it out.

2079
02:11:53,800 --> 02:11:56,100
She's one of the civilians that probably whether it was

2080
02:11:56,500 --> 02:12:00,100
courageous co-workers and or responders, you know, she's

2081
02:12:00,100 --> 02:12:02,500
one of the lives that was saved by their heroism.

2082
02:12:03,700 --> 02:12:07,000
But the next evening I think it was they held a vigil and

2083
02:12:07,000 --> 02:12:09,400
everyone spoke and there was people were super angry and

2084
02:12:09,400 --> 02:12:12,700
want revenge and you know, this stuff and I remember saying

2085
02:12:14,200 --> 02:12:17,000
you know, this is absolutely awful and we cannot get those

2086
02:12:17,000 --> 02:12:17,800
lives back.

2087
02:12:18,600 --> 02:12:23,000
But I hope this doesn't lead to losing countless more as we

2088
02:12:23,000 --> 02:12:27,400
start going to war and pursuing, you know, whoever and then

2089
02:12:27,400 --> 02:12:30,000
fast-forward you and I sitting down right before the 20th

2090
02:12:30,000 --> 02:12:33,400
anniversary and sadly there's an element of that.

2091
02:12:33,400 --> 02:12:36,300
There are definitely some conflicts that you know lasted

2092
02:12:36,300 --> 02:12:37,300
a very long time.

2093
02:12:37,300 --> 02:12:40,400
We've lost I think we lost more I believe than we lost in

2094
02:12:40,400 --> 02:12:43,000
the towers in the military side.

2095
02:12:43,200 --> 02:12:45,900
We've got the 9-11 cancers, which again, you know, that's

2096
02:12:45,900 --> 02:12:48,300
not so much avoidable because those are responders, but

2097
02:12:48,300 --> 02:12:49,400
there's a ripple effect.

2098
02:12:49,400 --> 02:12:52,900
There's a huge death toll attached to this which is

2099
02:12:52,900 --> 02:12:55,700
heartbreaking because that was, you know, something that I

2100
02:12:55,700 --> 02:12:56,500
was worried about.

2101
02:12:57,000 --> 02:12:59,500
So we touched on this before we start recording.

2102
02:12:59,500 --> 02:13:02,200
So give me your perspective on that.

2103
02:13:05,700 --> 02:13:09,300
Well, what I was sharing with you was that I think of it

2104
02:13:09,300 --> 02:13:13,500
often I mean between working with the military and now

2105
02:13:13,500 --> 02:13:18,100
having developed, you know, so many friendships with members

2106
02:13:18,100 --> 02:13:21,300
of the military and then having my fire department family.

2107
02:13:21,800 --> 02:13:27,700
I think that there's so much focus on September 11th and

2108
02:13:27,700 --> 02:13:32,100
the lives that were lost on that day and like I had said

2109
02:13:32,100 --> 02:13:35,800
to you, I always appreciate the acknowledgement but for

2110
02:13:35,800 --> 02:13:40,600
me right now, I think that the focus needs to shift to

2111
02:13:41,000 --> 02:13:46,600
the families that are currently in it and suffering and

2112
02:13:46,600 --> 02:13:51,900
grieving. We've lost so many service members whether it

2113
02:13:51,900 --> 02:13:58,700
was in combat to illnesses that were caused by toxic exposure

2114
02:13:58,700 --> 02:14:04,300
while they were deployed to suicide, firemen, same exact

2115
02:14:04,300 --> 02:14:09,100
thing, toxic exposure, suicide, police officers.

2116
02:14:09,100 --> 02:14:12,400
I mean the number of police officers committing suicide

2117
02:14:12,400 --> 02:14:16,400
recently is ridiculous, right?

2118
02:14:16,400 --> 02:14:22,400
So there are people that are still living 9-11 right now

2119
02:14:22,400 --> 02:14:27,600
that we don't give enough attention to or support to.

2120
02:14:29,100 --> 02:14:30,600
Yeah, I agree completely.

2121
02:14:30,600 --> 02:14:34,500
Well, you found yourself surrounded with some people from

2122
02:14:34,500 --> 02:14:38,500
that population when it came to Operation Enduring Warrior.

2123
02:14:38,500 --> 02:14:41,200
Obviously the Give team were attached to that and they're

2124
02:14:41,200 --> 02:14:45,300
local here and then Go Ruck, Jason and Emily, again,

2125
02:14:45,300 --> 02:14:47,700
another military background that served during the 9-11

2126
02:14:47,700 --> 02:14:51,100
era. So how did you find yourselves amongst those great

2127
02:14:51,100 --> 02:14:55,000
people and then we'll transition into your very powerful

2128
02:14:55,000 --> 02:14:56,400
Ruck that you have coming up.

2129
02:14:57,300 --> 02:15:01,800
Well, I honestly, it was all serendipitous and this is one

2130
02:15:01,800 --> 02:15:06,000
of the reasons why I say that when you look back on things,

2131
02:15:06,000 --> 02:15:10,400
there is a plan because if you asked me like you said when

2132
02:15:10,400 --> 02:15:12,000
you were young, what did you think you would be?

2133
02:15:12,300 --> 02:15:17,400
I never thought that I would be doing what I'm doing right

2134
02:15:17,400 --> 02:15:24,100
now. So there was no plan to this.

2135
02:15:24,100 --> 02:15:27,600
There was a bigger plan that I didn't know about obviously.

2136
02:15:29,900 --> 02:15:33,300
But after I started doing yoga, like I said, I thought it

2137
02:15:33,300 --> 02:15:34,900
was like the cure-all for everything.

2138
02:15:34,900 --> 02:15:39,500
So and the fire department was telling guys that once the

2139
02:15:39,500 --> 02:15:44,300
counseling unit, you know, go take a yoga class, but they

2140
02:15:44,300 --> 02:15:45,000
weren't going to go.

2141
02:15:45,000 --> 02:15:48,100
They were like this at that time.

2142
02:15:48,300 --> 02:15:51,600
Just think of how different our perception is now of what yoga

2143
02:15:51,600 --> 02:15:53,900
is compared to 20 years ago.

2144
02:15:55,500 --> 02:16:00,100
People really thought it was a bunch of hippies and just some

2145
02:16:00,100 --> 02:16:04,200
kind of crazy woohoo movement.

2146
02:16:04,200 --> 02:16:09,000
It wasn't even considered actual exercise or nevermind therapy.

2147
02:16:09,000 --> 02:16:14,100
So the fire department said that these guys were like, there's

2148
02:16:14,100 --> 02:16:16,600
no way but then they would call me up because they knew I was

2149
02:16:16,600 --> 02:16:19,500
doing it and they would be like, where can we go take yoga?

2150
02:16:19,500 --> 02:16:22,600
Or, you know, can you give us yoga classes?

2151
02:16:22,600 --> 02:16:26,200
So I was like, let me, I went to a teacher training and got

2152
02:16:26,200 --> 02:16:27,600
my certification.

2153
02:16:28,600 --> 02:16:32,600
I offered it to the fire department, but there was some

2154
02:16:32,600 --> 02:16:35,500
kind of thing with the Union and this and that that they

2155
02:16:35,500 --> 02:16:39,300
couldn't have someone it was, you know, some political nonsense.

2156
02:16:39,300 --> 02:16:40,700
So that never happened.

2157
02:16:40,700 --> 02:16:45,200
But in the meantime, just serendipitously a fireman who was

2158
02:16:45,200 --> 02:16:51,000
also a veteran was going down to Walter Reed for some kind of

2159
02:16:51,000 --> 02:16:55,400
like a barbecue or something where the fireman would go and

2160
02:16:55,400 --> 02:16:58,900
host a barbecue for the military.

2161
02:17:01,200 --> 02:17:03,800
And while he was so he asked me to babysit his son so he could

2162
02:17:03,800 --> 02:17:04,500
go and do that.

2163
02:17:04,500 --> 02:17:07,400
And I was like, sure, our boys are like the same age while he

2164
02:17:07,400 --> 02:17:08,400
was down there.

2165
02:17:08,800 --> 02:17:14,100
He ran into the one of the founders of Hope for the Warriors

2166
02:17:14,100 --> 02:17:18,800
who is now one of my best friends Tina atharol and he was

2167
02:17:18,800 --> 02:17:24,200
telling her about me and she was telling him about a military

2168
02:17:24,200 --> 02:17:28,200
wellness program that they were funding in New York.

2169
02:17:28,800 --> 02:17:34,100
So they had they had everything it was really they had equine

2170
02:17:34,100 --> 02:17:36,200
therapy art therapy acupuncture.

2171
02:17:36,200 --> 02:17:38,600
Like it was a really well-rounded program.

2172
02:17:38,600 --> 02:17:41,500
The only thing they didn't have was a yoga program.

2173
02:17:42,100 --> 02:17:46,100
So he was like she would be a great fit and what was happening

2174
02:17:46,100 --> 02:17:49,000
was civilians were going in to teach yoga for whatever reason

2175
02:17:49,000 --> 02:17:50,000
it wasn't working out.

2176
02:17:50,700 --> 02:17:52,300
So I went I got the job.

2177
02:17:52,400 --> 02:17:53,900
It happened to be in Queens.

2178
02:17:53,900 --> 02:17:57,100
My oldest started college that year at st.

2179
02:17:57,100 --> 02:18:00,500
John's so it was right near his school being the Italian mama.

2180
02:18:00,500 --> 02:18:03,600
I was like, yeah, I don't mind driving from New Jersey once

2181
02:18:03,600 --> 02:18:04,400
or twice a week.

2182
02:18:04,400 --> 02:18:08,500
I'll go teach yoga and I'll bring my son some food.

2183
02:18:08,800 --> 02:18:18,500
But while I was there I somehow got roped into doing a go rock

2184
02:18:18,500 --> 02:18:22,500
event and it wasn't even with the service members that were

2185
02:18:22,500 --> 02:18:25,900
in the program because it was that program was actually an

2186
02:18:25,900 --> 02:18:33,100
inpatient unit for PTSD was like severe post-traumatic stress

2187
02:18:33,100 --> 02:18:37,100
some some service members were flown in right from their

2188
02:18:37,100 --> 02:18:37,800
commands.

2189
02:18:37,800 --> 02:18:42,800
I mean it was it was heavy duty but the hope for the Warriors

2190
02:18:42,800 --> 02:18:47,400
group there there, you know a few of the people that worked

2191
02:18:48,400 --> 02:18:52,200
at hope for the Warriors were going to do a go rock event.

2192
02:18:52,300 --> 02:18:55,000
One of them was in the army and he ended up having to go to

2193
02:18:55,000 --> 02:18:55,400
training.

2194
02:18:55,400 --> 02:18:58,600
So there was an open spot and he said oh Denise you could take

2195
02:18:58,600 --> 02:18:59,000
it.

2196
02:19:00,300 --> 02:19:02,100
So I was like, okay, I'll do it.

2197
02:19:02,100 --> 02:19:02,900
What is it?

2198
02:19:02,900 --> 02:19:04,700
He said, you know, it's like a tough mother.

2199
02:19:05,300 --> 02:19:06,400
I said, all right.

2200
02:19:08,000 --> 02:19:11,700
Then I went home and googled what go rock was and nearly shit

2201
02:19:11,700 --> 02:19:12,500
my pants.

2202
02:19:12,800 --> 02:19:16,100
I was like I cannot do this.

2203
02:19:16,100 --> 02:19:17,600
I had instant anxiety.

2204
02:19:17,600 --> 02:19:20,300
I was like I am going to die.

2205
02:19:20,300 --> 02:19:28,500
I can't do this but I showed up and it was actually funny the

2206
02:19:28,500 --> 02:19:35,400
cadre that I had is no longer with the organization, but he

2207
02:19:35,900 --> 02:19:40,700
didn't know that I was the widow now our team was made up

2208
02:19:40,700 --> 02:19:46,400
of we had a service member who had lost his arm.

2209
02:19:46,700 --> 02:19:49,200
We had a gold star.

2210
02:19:51,000 --> 02:19:51,500
What did we have?

2211
02:19:51,500 --> 02:19:53,100
We had a gold star somebody.

2212
02:19:53,100 --> 02:19:55,700
I don't remember if it was a sister or brother trying to

2213
02:19:55,700 --> 02:19:58,500
think of who the heck it was.

2214
02:19:58,800 --> 02:20:04,200
I know we had a blue star sister military spouse like it

2215
02:20:04,200 --> 02:20:06,600
was everybody that was on our team was connected to the

2216
02:20:06,600 --> 02:20:08,300
military one way or the other.

2217
02:20:09,000 --> 02:20:17,800
So the cadre was relentless with me like didn't stop from

2218
02:20:17,800 --> 02:20:18,500
beginning to end.

2219
02:20:18,500 --> 02:20:21,100
I was just a person that he chose to pick on and I'm very

2220
02:20:21,100 --> 02:20:23,800
sassy, especially when I start to get hungry.

2221
02:20:23,800 --> 02:20:27,600
So it was like we you know, the bands are back and forth back

2222
02:20:27,600 --> 02:20:28,100
and forth.

2223
02:20:28,100 --> 02:20:34,300
I finished the event after the event Tina goes over to give

2224
02:20:34,300 --> 02:20:41,300
a coin to the cadre and said to him what a great team we have,

2225
02:20:41,300 --> 02:20:45,600
you know, blue star sister 9-11 widow and he goes, what do

2226
02:20:45,600 --> 02:20:46,100
you mean?

2227
02:20:46,100 --> 02:20:49,400
Who's the 9-11 what he goes don't tell me it's Denise.

2228
02:20:49,400 --> 02:20:55,500
So she was like, yeah, you didn't know that.

2229
02:20:55,500 --> 02:21:01,900
So he continued after that to do an event in honor of my husband

2230
02:21:01,900 --> 02:21:02,700
they surprised me.

2231
02:21:02,700 --> 02:21:05,600
I didn't know I told them I they were coming into New York.

2232
02:21:05,600 --> 02:21:10,100
I was like, oh, I'll come in shadow or whatever and they

2233
02:21:10,100 --> 02:21:12,300
ended up doing an event in honor of Jeff.

2234
02:21:12,300 --> 02:21:15,600
So that was how the whole I got so involved in the go rock

2235
02:21:15,600 --> 02:21:16,000
community.

2236
02:21:16,000 --> 02:21:19,300
Then they started doing their 9-11 events and I offered to

2237
02:21:19,300 --> 02:21:23,900
help be like the liaison between the cadre and the firehouses

2238
02:21:23,900 --> 02:21:27,900
that they wanted to visit and so that was that how that

2239
02:21:27,900 --> 02:21:29,300
relationship developed.

2240
02:21:29,300 --> 02:21:37,200
Oh, we W I think I met through rock to remember.

2241
02:21:39,200 --> 02:21:40,800
I would do that event.

2242
02:21:40,800 --> 02:21:46,200
I did that event a few years in a row and I spoke at it a couple

2243
02:21:46,200 --> 02:21:46,800
of times.

2244
02:21:46,800 --> 02:21:51,700
So I think that I met I think the first person I met was John

2245
02:21:51,700 --> 02:22:00,600
Lopez and I don't my memory is terrible.

2246
02:22:00,600 --> 02:22:06,400
I know that I think it was the first time I had any interaction

2247
02:22:06,400 --> 02:22:12,100
with OEW was there and then I would go and do you know, they

2248
02:22:12,100 --> 02:22:14,700
did some run in the city or whatever.

2249
02:22:14,700 --> 02:22:17,700
I would meet up with them whenever I could and then they

2250
02:22:17,700 --> 02:22:19,500
wanted to do tunnels to towers.

2251
02:22:19,500 --> 02:22:21,500
So they helped me organize I would do the run.

2252
02:22:21,500 --> 02:22:24,900
I would do tunnels to towers every year and do a team for

2253
02:22:24,900 --> 02:22:27,600
Jeff, but they wanted to come and join us and that was

2254
02:22:27,600 --> 02:22:28,300
fantastic.

2255
02:22:28,300 --> 02:22:34,300
So we did that event together and the gift team.

2256
02:22:34,300 --> 02:22:39,800
I just met through Lopez and when they first I guess when

2257
02:22:39,800 --> 02:22:45,000
they first started Brad and Lopez started talking they were

2258
02:22:45,000 --> 02:22:49,600
looking for some support around Thanksgiving the kids.

2259
02:22:49,600 --> 02:22:53,000
I think you know a lot of them are going to be by themselves

2260
02:22:53,000 --> 02:22:57,700
and so Lopez I was like, hey, you know, let me know what I

2261
02:22:57,700 --> 02:23:02,200
could do and I'll do whatever I can to help support that.

2262
02:23:02,900 --> 02:23:06,800
So yeah, it's just like you said, it's this little golden

2263
02:23:06,800 --> 02:23:10,300
red you meet one person brings you to another person and

2264
02:23:12,700 --> 02:23:17,500
that's it before you know it you're surrounded by all these

2265
02:23:17,500 --> 02:23:18,900
beautiful humans.

2266
02:23:19,000 --> 02:23:19,900
Absolutely.

2267
02:23:19,900 --> 02:23:23,100
Well speaking of which the the tunnels of towers the Steve

2268
02:23:23,100 --> 02:23:25,900
Sillers event was the stair climbing day with the Rob Jones

2269
02:23:26,200 --> 02:23:29,200
and his mom and dad Stevens mom and dad were at the top floor

2270
02:23:29,200 --> 02:23:30,100
to welcome everyone.

2271
02:23:30,100 --> 02:23:32,500
So another interaction.

2272
02:23:32,500 --> 02:23:33,400
Yeah, beautiful.

2273
02:23:33,400 --> 02:23:36,900
Yeah, I've never done this stair climb.

2274
02:23:36,900 --> 02:23:37,800
Yeah, it was good.

2275
02:23:37,800 --> 02:23:41,800
The only funny thing was is I packed all my gear and I was

2276
02:23:41,800 --> 02:23:45,800
actually going to borrow an SCBA from one of my FDNY friends

2277
02:23:46,300 --> 02:23:48,700
and paid for an extra suitcase and everything we got there

2278
02:23:48,700 --> 02:23:51,100
and one more trade had just opened up and they were like,

2279
02:23:51,100 --> 02:23:53,600
yeah, no you can't let anyone wear their gear.

2280
02:23:53,600 --> 02:23:53,700
Right?

2281
02:23:53,700 --> 02:23:57,300
No, no, you basically just running a tire is all you can

2282
02:23:57,300 --> 02:23:58,900
take because of the security initially.

2283
02:23:58,900 --> 02:24:01,100
So I know if it's changed now or not.

2284
02:24:01,100 --> 02:24:05,100
Now, I don't know if it has I remembered I remember hearing

2285
02:24:05,100 --> 02:24:06,000
that from someone.

2286
02:24:06,000 --> 02:24:09,800
I don't know if it has like I said, I don't I don't ever

2287
02:24:09,800 --> 02:24:10,600
do that event.

2288
02:24:13,100 --> 02:24:16,400
But I do do the tunnels the towers are on if you've never

2289
02:24:16,400 --> 02:24:16,900
done it.

2290
02:24:16,900 --> 02:24:18,100
It's an experience.

2291
02:24:18,500 --> 02:24:19,500
Yeah, it's definitely on my list.

2292
02:24:19,500 --> 02:24:22,300
I think hopefully I'll be in Europe this year because I

2293
02:24:22,300 --> 02:24:24,400
haven't seen my family for two years and they finally

2294
02:24:24,400 --> 02:24:28,400
reduced I mean that eliminated the quarantine for travelers

2295
02:24:28,400 --> 02:24:29,800
from the US to the UK.

2296
02:24:29,800 --> 02:24:31,800
You still got to do all the covid tests and stuff.

2297
02:24:32,200 --> 02:24:35,400
Yeah, even if you're vaccinated, which I still don't understand

2298
02:24:35,400 --> 02:24:40,100
the science behind that but I know anyway, well then talk

2299
02:24:40,100 --> 02:24:42,000
to me about your event.

2300
02:24:42,000 --> 02:24:45,900
So we actually connected you were talking in front of 1010

2301
02:24:45,900 --> 02:24:47,000
and you were announcing something.

2302
02:24:47,000 --> 02:24:49,800
So tell me what it is and when you know how people can

2303
02:24:49,800 --> 02:24:50,400
help with it.

2304
02:24:51,000 --> 02:24:55,600
So I every year I try to do, you know, do something and

2305
02:24:55,600 --> 02:24:59,100
with the 20th anniversary if I don't plan anything what ends

2306
02:24:59,100 --> 02:25:05,100
up happening is I get into this rut like I will be home and

2307
02:25:05,400 --> 02:25:09,300
put the TV on and I it's it just never feels right.

2308
02:25:09,700 --> 02:25:14,100
So I wasn't sure what I was going to be doing for the 20th

2309
02:25:14,100 --> 02:25:14,700
anniversary.

2310
02:25:14,700 --> 02:25:20,000
We have the new baby and all of that and then Danny actually

2311
02:25:20,000 --> 02:25:26,200
called me and said that he was going to do this rock from

2312
02:25:26,600 --> 02:25:28,700
Boston Logan International.

2313
02:25:28,700 --> 02:25:30,600
I don't know if you heard him talk about it, but it was

2314
02:25:30,600 --> 02:25:33,100
actually funny because he planned this for someone else.

2315
02:25:33,400 --> 02:25:39,400
It was a police officer that is also involved in all of these

2316
02:25:39,400 --> 02:25:44,600
groups go rock and all of that who had wanted to walk across

2317
02:25:44,600 --> 02:25:45,400
the country.

2318
02:25:45,400 --> 02:25:46,200
He was there on that.

2319
02:25:46,200 --> 02:25:49,500
He wanted to walk across the country for the 20th anniversary

2320
02:25:49,900 --> 02:25:55,000
and Stokes Danny was sort of like that's a big undertaking.

2321
02:25:55,200 --> 02:25:58,200
You know, you're gonna need a lot of time off from work for

2322
02:25:58,200 --> 02:25:58,700
that.

2323
02:25:58,700 --> 02:26:03,700
And so then they scaled it down and Danny said why don't we

2324
02:26:03,700 --> 02:26:04,600
try to make it?

2325
02:26:05,400 --> 02:26:08,200
You know, like a meaning from one meaningful location to

2326
02:26:08,200 --> 02:26:14,600
another and they decided to do Boston Logan where the planes

2327
02:26:14,600 --> 02:26:17,400
took off from to the world to the World Trade Center.

2328
02:26:18,200 --> 02:26:23,800
The person he originally designed it for backed out.

2329
02:26:23,800 --> 02:26:25,100
He couldn't get the time off.

2330
02:26:25,100 --> 02:26:28,200
So he didn't he couldn't do it and Danny was going to do it

2331
02:26:28,200 --> 02:26:33,600
on his own and he asked me if I could help him with the, you

2332
02:26:33,600 --> 02:26:36,200
know, getting into the city.

2333
02:26:36,500 --> 02:26:38,600
He was like, it'll just be like a tough mother.

2334
02:26:40,200 --> 02:26:43,100
No, he wasn't even he was like, you know, maybe you want to

2335
02:26:43,100 --> 02:26:45,600
meet up with me when I get closer to New York or if you

2336
02:26:45,600 --> 02:26:49,700
want to come to Boston and so I was like, yeah, I'll come to

2337
02:26:49,700 --> 02:26:52,700
Boston and I'll do the step off with you and then I'll catch

2338
02:26:52,700 --> 02:26:55,100
up with you in New York.

2339
02:26:55,100 --> 02:27:01,700
So then I don't know a couple of we we I don't know what when

2340
02:27:01,700 --> 02:27:03,100
I came I was on my way to Calif.

2341
02:27:03,100 --> 02:27:04,900
I was actually in the airport when he called me so when I

2342
02:27:04,900 --> 02:27:08,200
came home I called him again and we were just talking about

2343
02:27:08,200 --> 02:27:10,000
his plan and I was like, you know what?

2344
02:27:10,300 --> 02:27:12,200
I'm just going to do the whole thing with you.

2345
02:27:12,200 --> 02:27:14,000
How many miles a day are you doing?

2346
02:27:14,000 --> 02:27:16,300
So he was saying like 80 miles a day.

2347
02:27:16,300 --> 02:27:21,600
So I said, all right, I'll just do the entire thing and then

2348
02:27:21,600 --> 02:27:26,700
we decided that we were really going to try to make it sort

2349
02:27:26,700 --> 02:27:29,500
of a movement to raise awareness.

2350
02:27:29,900 --> 02:27:33,100
Danny always tells the story which I absolutely love about

2351
02:27:33,100 --> 02:27:34,100
that picture.

2352
02:27:34,600 --> 02:27:38,500
He I forget where he was stationed but there was a picture

2353
02:27:38,500 --> 02:27:43,300
like in the locker room and it's a it's a very famous drawing

2354
02:27:43,300 --> 02:27:47,400
of a fireman handing the flag off to a soldier.

2355
02:27:47,700 --> 02:27:49,100
I don't know if you've ever seen it.

2356
02:27:49,100 --> 02:27:49,800
Yes, I have.

2357
02:27:49,800 --> 02:27:50,800
Yep, right.

2358
02:27:50,800 --> 02:27:56,400
So it meant the world to Danny because that was exactly his

2359
02:27:56,400 --> 02:28:00,400
experience right like he was already in the army and then

2360
02:28:00,600 --> 02:28:04,000
the World Trade Center collapsed and that began his whole,

2361
02:28:04,100 --> 02:28:12,400
you know all the deployments and all that so in that just

2362
02:28:12,400 --> 02:28:17,100
just keeping that in mind and then exactly what you and I

2363
02:28:17,100 --> 02:28:21,300
were talking about that we always want to honor and acknowledge

2364
02:28:21,300 --> 02:28:26,500
every single life that was lost that day, but also bring awareness

2365
02:28:26,700 --> 02:28:32,700
to the people that are currently suffering the lives that

2366
02:28:33,400 --> 02:28:35,500
that have been lost since then.

2367
02:28:37,100 --> 02:28:38,300
So that's what we're doing.

2368
02:28:38,300 --> 02:28:43,100
We're going to make our way from Boston all the way to New

2369
02:28:43,100 --> 02:28:43,800
York.

2370
02:28:43,800 --> 02:28:49,400
Hopefully I make it in one piece, but I know I will finish.

2371
02:28:49,400 --> 02:28:52,400
I have to crawl into the firehouse.

2372
02:28:52,400 --> 02:28:59,000
We're still in we have most of the route laid out.

2373
02:28:59,000 --> 02:29:03,200
We have the last few days Danny still working on.

2374
02:29:03,200 --> 02:29:04,400
I don't see the logistics.

2375
02:29:04,400 --> 02:29:05,500
He's so good at that.

2376
02:29:05,500 --> 02:29:13,200
I'm I'm not so yeah, and I don't want to we're getting some

2377
02:29:13,200 --> 02:29:15,700
really good sponsorship.

2378
02:29:16,000 --> 02:29:21,300
I don't want to say it yet because I don't have the I mean

2379
02:29:21,300 --> 02:29:25,300
I have the commitment, but I just am not 100% you know,

2380
02:29:25,300 --> 02:29:29,000
like it's not actually in the hasn't happened.

2381
02:29:29,000 --> 02:29:31,000
All the right, right.

2382
02:29:31,000 --> 02:29:36,000
So I don't want to let the cat out of the bag, but we do have

2383
02:29:36,000 --> 02:29:40,000
a wonderful family that has an Airbnb that is hosting us in

2384
02:29:40,000 --> 02:29:45,000
Boston. So when we get there, we're starting off at the US

2385
02:29:45,000 --> 02:29:49,600
so in the airport and we will rock to that Airbnb, which I

2386
02:29:49,600 --> 02:29:54,100
believe is like eight miles away from the airport and then

2387
02:29:54,100 --> 02:29:59,000
that family I wish I knew their name, but I don't it's a

2388
02:29:59,000 --> 02:30:00,200
friend of Danny's.

2389
02:30:01,600 --> 02:30:05,000
They're having a whole cookout for us and everything.

2390
02:30:05,000 --> 02:30:07,700
So anyone that's in the area that wants to come and wish us

2391
02:30:07,700 --> 02:30:13,200
well or even join us they can come and then we'll do the

2392
02:30:13,200 --> 02:30:18,800
first day of 18 miles and they're picking us up at the

2393
02:30:18,800 --> 02:30:22,400
end and driving us back to the Airbnb and then in the morning

2394
02:30:22,400 --> 02:30:26,300
they'll bring us back to where we left off so we can continue

2395
02:30:26,900 --> 02:30:28,200
the next day.

2396
02:30:30,800 --> 02:30:32,800
Yeah, I'm really I'm looking forward to it.

2397
02:30:33,600 --> 02:30:34,000
Brilliant.

2398
02:30:34,000 --> 02:30:35,600
What day do you leave the airport?

2399
02:30:35,600 --> 02:30:38,300
We step off on August 29th.

2400
02:30:38,300 --> 02:30:39,900
Okay, brilliant.

2401
02:30:39,900 --> 02:30:46,100
We will be in New London, Connecticut by September 3rd

2402
02:30:46,100 --> 02:30:50,600
and we will be taking the fourth off.

2403
02:30:50,600 --> 02:30:58,600
That is our only rest day and then we'll continue down from

2404
02:30:58,600 --> 02:30:59,600
Connecticut into New York.

2405
02:30:59,600 --> 02:31:01,300
Beautiful.

2406
02:31:01,300 --> 02:31:03,700
Are you ending at station 1010 at the end?

2407
02:31:03,700 --> 02:31:06,400
All right, so that's our plan.

2408
02:31:06,400 --> 02:31:10,600
That's I mean, I'm confident that that's what will happen.

2409
02:31:10,600 --> 02:31:14,800
But we just found out that President Biden is supposed to

2410
02:31:14,800 --> 02:31:19,400
be at the firehouse and that's going to create a huge security

2411
02:31:19,400 --> 02:31:22,400
issue and probably make it more difficult for us.

2412
02:31:23,700 --> 02:31:25,100
Very frustrating.

2413
02:31:25,100 --> 02:31:27,600
Yeah, politics take over these like this.

2414
02:31:27,600 --> 02:31:28,700
Absolutely.

2415
02:31:28,700 --> 02:31:32,000
Yeah, there's a lot of I've kind of joked about this in the

2416
02:31:32,000 --> 02:31:34,900
past politicians always show up right before it's election

2417
02:31:34,900 --> 02:31:35,300
time.

2418
02:31:35,300 --> 02:31:36,400
Then you don't see him again.

2419
02:31:36,400 --> 02:31:38,700
Well, you see him soon down turning down, you know health

2420
02:31:38,700 --> 02:31:41,400
initiatives turning down pay raises, you know things like

2421
02:31:41,400 --> 02:31:41,700
that.

2422
02:31:41,700 --> 02:31:45,100
But yeah, show the hell up when it benefits them.

2423
02:31:45,900 --> 02:31:50,100
There's a movement amongst 9-11 families.

2424
02:31:50,100 --> 02:31:53,200
It was actually I mean, I'm not going to I'm not speaking

2425
02:31:53,200 --> 02:31:53,800
for all of them.

2426
02:31:53,800 --> 02:31:56,700
I'm not even speaking for myself, but we received letters.

2427
02:31:56,800 --> 02:32:00,600
We received letters from our attorneys to send a letter to

2428
02:32:00,600 --> 02:32:07,200
the fire to the White House asking that he not come because

2429
02:32:07,200 --> 02:32:12,400
it does take away from especially for me at 10 house.

2430
02:32:12,500 --> 02:32:15,700
You know, we can never on the anniversary go.

2431
02:32:15,700 --> 02:32:18,000
I don't usually go to the firehouse on the anniversary.

2432
02:32:18,000 --> 02:32:21,400
I'll either go the night before or I'll go during the week.

2433
02:32:21,400 --> 02:32:25,100
I don't usually ever go on the 11th because you can't have

2434
02:32:25,100 --> 02:32:26,000
any privacy.

2435
02:32:26,000 --> 02:32:28,500
I can't just be with the guys in the firehouse.

2436
02:32:28,500 --> 02:32:35,900
It's in constant influx of strangers politicians anyone

2437
02:32:35,900 --> 02:32:41,700
that has any kind of affiliation to the fire department anyone

2438
02:32:41,700 --> 02:32:44,100
that knows somebody I guess I should say that that can get

2439
02:32:44,100 --> 02:32:47,100
permission to be down there is in the firehouse.

2440
02:32:49,700 --> 02:32:54,400
It's just it should be it should be a day where we can do

2441
02:32:54,400 --> 02:32:58,100
what we want amongst our own little family not have to worry

2442
02:32:58,100 --> 02:33:03,600
about politicians and anyone else for that matter.

2443
02:33:04,000 --> 02:33:07,100
Yeah, no, I agree completely even when when I saw the guys

2444
02:33:07,100 --> 02:33:09,700
from 1010 they were I think someone they were doing something

2445
02:33:09,700 --> 02:33:10,300
with the station.

2446
02:33:10,300 --> 02:33:13,200
So they actually park in the rig outside and they were backing

2447
02:33:13,200 --> 02:33:14,900
up to the parking space when they were done.

2448
02:33:15,400 --> 02:33:17,600
I just went over and gave him some cars to the podcast.

2449
02:33:17,600 --> 02:33:20,400
I'm like this is you know free free podcast for you.

2450
02:33:20,400 --> 02:33:23,300
This is what it's about, you know, thanks for what you do

2451
02:33:23,700 --> 02:33:27,300
by because because again, I understand completely whether

2452
02:33:27,300 --> 02:33:29,200
it's politicians where there's media.

2453
02:33:29,200 --> 02:33:29,800
Let me very clear.

2454
02:33:29,800 --> 02:33:32,200
I'm talking about politicians doesn't care what color tie

2455
02:33:32,200 --> 02:33:36,300
you're wearing a lot of them absolutely abuse their privilege

2456
02:33:36,300 --> 02:33:38,700
and don't leave people alone and the same with the media.

2457
02:33:38,700 --> 02:33:45,000
I mean one of the most like just inhumane things I think you

2458
02:33:45,000 --> 02:33:48,800
can do is go get your microphone and shove it in the face

2459
02:33:48,800 --> 02:33:51,400
of someone who just lost someone like we see over and all your

2460
02:33:51,400 --> 02:33:52,200
kid was just killed.

2461
02:33:52,200 --> 02:33:55,300
How do you feel the fuck you think I feel good?

2462
02:33:55,300 --> 02:33:56,900
You know get out of my way, you know, so.

2463
02:33:56,900 --> 02:33:59,900
It just I mean, I think that that's the problem is that it's

2464
02:33:59,900 --> 02:34:03,500
more important to them to get the photo up in the station.

2465
02:34:04,200 --> 02:34:08,200
For example than to understand that the best thing you could

2466
02:34:08,200 --> 02:34:10,100
do is maybe go on camera and say hey, we're going to go to

2467
02:34:10,100 --> 02:34:13,000
station 10, but we have too much respect for those guys

2468
02:34:13,000 --> 02:34:14,300
and their their families.

2469
02:34:14,300 --> 02:34:16,500
So we're going to go over here instead.

2470
02:34:16,500 --> 02:34:18,100
I mean everyone would respect you even more.

2471
02:34:18,500 --> 02:34:20,500
So that way it's not about the photo up.

2472
02:34:21,100 --> 02:34:24,100
You're still you know paying tribute to everyone that was

2473
02:34:24,100 --> 02:34:28,000
lost, but you'll be in respectful at the same time, right?

2474
02:34:28,000 --> 02:34:29,300
No, I agree with you.

2475
02:34:29,600 --> 02:34:33,600
I always that's something that I don't know if I would have

2476
02:34:33,600 --> 02:34:38,200
been so in tune to if I didn't have the life experience that

2477
02:34:38,200 --> 02:34:41,700
I had because I see now like you said when something terrible

2478
02:34:41,700 --> 02:34:42,500
happens.

2479
02:34:42,900 --> 02:34:49,000
It's like why would you ever put this picture up?

2480
02:34:49,300 --> 02:34:52,800
The family has to continually see this and especially with

2481
02:34:52,800 --> 02:34:59,700
the you know with the internet things are on there forever.

2482
02:35:00,000 --> 02:35:03,700
So when you show somebody laying on the ground or you know

2483
02:35:03,700 --> 02:35:09,600
a grieving widow throwing herself on a casket or something

2484
02:35:10,500 --> 02:35:13,000
her children have to look at that for the rest of their

2485
02:35:13,000 --> 02:35:13,800
lives.

2486
02:35:14,400 --> 02:35:17,100
It's but it sells papers.

2487
02:35:17,100 --> 02:35:23,200
And brings up ratings for some reason our whole society.

2488
02:35:23,200 --> 02:35:25,300
I mean they wouldn't do it if people didn't look at it,

2489
02:35:25,300 --> 02:35:25,700
right?

2490
02:35:26,000 --> 02:35:27,500
So yeah, well exactly.

2491
02:35:27,500 --> 02:35:30,000
I always talk about those god-awful magazines when you're

2492
02:35:30,000 --> 02:35:33,000
at the checkout in a supermarket that you know, the National

2493
02:35:33,000 --> 02:35:35,100
Enquirer and you know, all these hello.

2494
02:35:35,100 --> 02:35:37,800
Okay, whatever they are and they're all just fabricating

2495
02:35:37,800 --> 02:35:38,500
stories.

2496
02:35:39,000 --> 02:35:40,600
But yeah, we have to look at ourselves.

2497
02:35:40,600 --> 02:35:42,400
If you're one of the ones one of the people that buys that

2498
02:35:42,400 --> 02:35:44,200
shit you're part of the problem.

2499
02:35:44,700 --> 02:35:45,700
Exactly.

2500
02:35:45,700 --> 02:35:46,300
Exactly.

2501
02:35:46,300 --> 02:35:51,600
I did an interview after 9-eleven and it was because the

2502
02:35:51,600 --> 02:35:58,600
Daily News and I will call them out over and over posted my

2503
02:35:59,200 --> 02:36:02,300
like I was not notified of Jeff's death.

2504
02:36:02,300 --> 02:36:06,300
I read it in the paper and they knew they were not supposed

2505
02:36:06,300 --> 02:36:10,300
to put any names in unless there was a positive identification

2506
02:36:10,400 --> 02:36:14,200
and you know how it was not easy to identify these guys,

2507
02:36:14,200 --> 02:36:14,700
right?

2508
02:36:14,700 --> 02:36:19,700
They I'm not going to get into specifics, but the firefighters

2509
02:36:21,600 --> 02:36:25,600
they thought they were easily identified because they were

2510
02:36:25,600 --> 02:36:29,000
basically the reason more firefighters were found than

2511
02:36:29,000 --> 02:36:32,100
civilians was because of the bunker gear, right?

2512
02:36:32,500 --> 02:36:37,600
So if they found remains and it was in bunker gear, they, you

2513
02:36:37,600 --> 02:36:39,900
know, the assumption would be well, whatever the name was on

2514
02:36:39,900 --> 02:36:42,600
the bunker gear is who these remains belong to.

2515
02:36:42,600 --> 02:36:46,700
But you couldn't depend on that because there were people

2516
02:36:46,700 --> 02:36:48,800
running, you know, they were fired and running into

2517
02:36:48,800 --> 02:36:52,100
firehouses, especially 10 because it was right there and

2518
02:36:52,100 --> 02:36:56,100
grabbing gear that guys that were off-duty were coming in

2519
02:36:56,100 --> 02:36:58,500
and just grabbing stuff and throwing it on so that they

2520
02:36:58,500 --> 02:36:59,300
could run in.

2521
02:37:00,300 --> 02:37:06,700
So you had to wait for an ID and they didn't they didn't so

2522
02:37:06,700 --> 02:37:09,400
the way that I found out was one of Jeff's best friends

2523
02:37:09,400 --> 02:37:11,300
called me and said did you get a call today?

2524
02:37:11,300 --> 02:37:16,200
So I said no, why should I have and they said, well, there's

2525
02:37:16,200 --> 02:37:21,000
something in the paper and I was like, so this friends of

2526
02:37:21,000 --> 02:37:22,200
Jeff's he grew up with him.

2527
02:37:22,900 --> 02:37:26,300
He's like, he can't pronounce anything, right?

2528
02:37:26,300 --> 02:37:26,600
Right.

2529
02:37:26,600 --> 02:37:29,400
So I didn't try I go Danny read it to me read it to me

2530
02:37:29,400 --> 02:37:31,200
because I maybe you're not reading it, right?

2531
02:37:31,500 --> 02:37:34,100
So he read it to me and right away I called Jeff's captain

2532
02:37:34,100 --> 02:37:38,500
and I said, hey, I saw this in the paper and he was beside

2533
02:37:38,500 --> 02:37:42,400
himself that I knew before they could give me official

2534
02:37:42,400 --> 02:37:43,400
notification.

2535
02:37:44,000 --> 02:37:49,100
So I went on someone asked to interview me and I did the

2536
02:37:49,100 --> 02:37:52,500
interview interview purely because I did not want that to

2537
02:37:52,500 --> 02:37:56,100
happen to somebody else the way they twisted my words like,

2538
02:37:56,100 --> 02:38:00,100
you know, they just caught they took little segments and

2539
02:38:00,100 --> 02:38:01,500
like pieced it together.

2540
02:38:01,900 --> 02:38:03,100
I was infuriated.

2541
02:38:03,100 --> 02:38:07,300
I was like, I'm never ever doing an interview again because

2542
02:38:07,300 --> 02:38:14,500
I can't I didn't I was so naive to the whole media influence

2543
02:38:14,500 --> 02:38:17,400
at the time that I I thought I was just going on there.

2544
02:38:17,400 --> 02:38:18,100
Tell my story.

2545
02:38:18,100 --> 02:38:20,200
They're going to put it word-for-word and people will get

2546
02:38:20,200 --> 02:38:23,600
what I'm trying to say, but they manipulated it into what

2547
02:38:23,600 --> 02:38:27,700
they wanted it to sound like it was terrible terrible.

2548
02:38:28,300 --> 02:38:31,300
Yeah, and it's that's again the root we talked about, you

2549
02:38:31,300 --> 02:38:34,200
know, the challenges if your health care system is based on

2550
02:38:34,200 --> 02:38:37,800
profit from the sick that it's not going to benefit the

2551
02:38:37,800 --> 02:38:40,900
nation and the same with this if you get media from

2552
02:38:40,900 --> 02:38:45,100
organizations that are set up to sell advertising space you

2553
02:38:45,100 --> 02:38:49,100
end up with this diverse diversive clickbait, you know,

2554
02:38:49,100 --> 02:38:51,900
horrendous environment that we've seen whether it's covid

2555
02:38:51,900 --> 02:38:55,400
whether it's BLM and police and you know, whatever it is,

2556
02:38:55,400 --> 02:38:58,000
you know, whatever it is the rest of us are in the middle

2557
02:38:58,000 --> 02:39:00,800
going like a tennis game like what the hell is going on?

2558
02:39:00,800 --> 02:39:04,300
Well, these two extreme sides just do it but yeah, but there's

2559
02:39:04,300 --> 02:39:05,500
there's a lack of compassion.

2560
02:39:05,500 --> 02:39:09,400
I saw that quite a few of my friends were at the Parkland

2561
02:39:09,700 --> 02:39:12,700
shooting a school full of children and I'm sure it was

2562
02:39:12,700 --> 02:39:15,700
the same at Sandy Hook and you know, these other places and

2563
02:39:15,700 --> 02:39:19,900
the way the media acted on those scenes was disgusting.

2564
02:39:19,900 --> 02:39:22,600
I'm sure there were some good journalists amongst them, but

2565
02:39:22,600 --> 02:39:24,700
overall it was awful.

2566
02:39:25,900 --> 02:39:29,900
What yeah, I actually I've done some work with Tuesday's

2567
02:39:29,900 --> 02:39:35,500
Children, which is another fantastic organization and they

2568
02:39:35,500 --> 02:39:40,600
were started around 9-11, but now they serve any child who

2569
02:39:40,600 --> 02:39:46,800
has lost a family member to any act of violence or terrorism

2570
02:39:46,800 --> 02:39:54,000
whether it's domestic terrorism or you know, foreign so I

2571
02:39:54,000 --> 02:39:58,200
have heard from family members of that particular incidence

2572
02:39:58,200 --> 02:40:03,800
and how devastating watching the news was for them.

2573
02:40:04,500 --> 02:40:09,500
I mean, it really is so heartless when it comes down to

2574
02:40:09,500 --> 02:40:09,600
it.

2575
02:40:09,600 --> 02:40:13,700
I don't know who makes that final decision to put some of

2576
02:40:13,700 --> 02:40:19,500
what they put on the TV or in the newspapers, but yeah, it's

2577
02:40:19,500 --> 02:40:21,100
really it's really terrible.

2578
02:40:21,400 --> 02:40:25,100
I was saying I think there should be and there is now like

2579
02:40:25,100 --> 02:40:29,800
a few good news stations, right like telling us the good that

2580
02:40:29,800 --> 02:40:33,600
people do because that's the media focuses so much on all

2581
02:40:33,900 --> 02:40:38,000
the the negative if you it's the only thing you ever got to

2582
02:40:38,000 --> 02:40:41,200
watch was the news you would think that that people were

2583
02:40:41,200 --> 02:40:42,100
horrible.

2584
02:40:44,300 --> 02:40:49,200
But they just don't focus enough on on all the good that

2585
02:40:49,200 --> 02:40:55,000
happens. I think for every tragedy the only way any of us

2586
02:40:55,000 --> 02:41:00,400
survived any of it is through the good of other people and

2587
02:41:00,400 --> 02:41:02,800
that's what people should be focusing on.

2588
02:41:02,800 --> 02:41:05,800
It's similar to what Mr.

2589
02:41:05,800 --> 02:41:07,000
Rogers said, right?

2590
02:41:08,200 --> 02:41:10,100
Whenever something did you ever hear that quote?

2591
02:41:10,100 --> 02:41:14,100
I'm going to screw it up because I'm I really mess up any

2592
02:41:14,100 --> 02:41:14,400
quote.

2593
02:41:14,400 --> 02:41:18,400
I try to say but it's something to the effect of whenever

2594
02:41:18,400 --> 02:41:21,100
something happens always look for the good guys.

2595
02:41:22,200 --> 02:41:23,400
Because they're always there.

2596
02:41:23,700 --> 02:41:31,200
They're always there and in that same thought process whenever

2597
02:41:31,200 --> 02:41:35,400
you're going through something yourself that is so devastating.

2598
02:41:36,100 --> 02:41:39,400
I think it's important.

2599
02:41:39,600 --> 02:41:42,400
I know that when you're going through it, you won't have it

2600
02:41:42,400 --> 02:41:44,100
in the front of your mind, but

2601
02:41:44,100 --> 02:41:51,700
I know that it's an opportunity to become a better version of

2602
02:41:51,700 --> 02:41:55,300
yourself every time you're that broken.

2603
02:41:55,300 --> 02:41:58,700
You're given the opportunity to either let it eat you alive

2604
02:41:58,700 --> 02:42:02,700
or you can take that pain right pain is as powerful as an

2605
02:42:02,700 --> 02:42:06,900
energy as as love is and you can harness that into something

2606
02:42:06,900 --> 02:42:07,400
good.

2607
02:42:08,700 --> 02:42:09,300
Beautiful.

2608
02:42:09,300 --> 02:42:10,900
Well, I think that's the perfect place to transition to

2609
02:42:10,900 --> 02:42:11,900
some quality content.

2610
02:42:11,900 --> 02:42:14,300
Before well, I think that's the perfect place to transition to

2611
02:42:14,300 --> 02:42:15,100
some closing questions.

2612
02:42:15,100 --> 02:42:15,900
I love that.

2613
02:42:17,300 --> 02:42:20,700
The first question I love to ask is there a book that you

2614
02:42:20,700 --> 02:42:23,500
love to recommend it can be related to our discussion today

2615
02:42:23,500 --> 02:42:27,000
and we've talked about a lot of stuff or completely unrelated.

2616
02:42:27,900 --> 02:42:29,700
Well related to our discussion.

2617
02:42:29,700 --> 02:42:36,400
I am going to say the body keeps the score by Bessel van

2618
02:42:36,400 --> 02:42:37,000
der Kolk.

2619
02:42:37,000 --> 02:42:38,300
That's a great book.

2620
02:42:38,300 --> 02:42:48,300
It's a great book on trauma and currently I am reading this

2621
02:42:48,300 --> 02:42:50,400
is like a great self-help book.

2622
02:42:50,400 --> 02:42:52,300
Now, let me see if I get this right.

2623
02:42:52,300 --> 02:42:59,300
Currently I am reading a book called the journey.

2624
02:42:59,300 --> 02:43:04,000
No conscious loving conscious loving the journey to co-commitment.

2625
02:43:04,000 --> 02:43:06,900
It is so powerful.

2626
02:43:06,900 --> 02:43:12,300
Gay Hendrix is one of the authors and I think there are two

2627
02:43:12,300 --> 02:43:12,700
authors.

2628
02:43:12,700 --> 02:43:17,200
It might be his wife the other one, but he also wrote a book

2629
02:43:17,200 --> 02:43:21,300
called the big leap, which is fantastic quick easy read, but

2630
02:43:21,300 --> 02:43:23,000
this book that I'm reading right now.

2631
02:43:23,000 --> 02:43:24,100
Oh my goodness.

2632
02:43:24,100 --> 02:43:30,100
It is so so easy to read and so enlightening every single page.

2633
02:43:30,100 --> 02:43:33,100
I'm like, oh wow, I could relate to that.

2634
02:43:34,600 --> 02:43:36,500
Beautiful but I haven't heard that one before.

2635
02:43:36,500 --> 02:43:37,000
So I'll add that.

2636
02:43:37,000 --> 02:43:38,000
I mean, I truly do.

2637
02:43:38,000 --> 02:43:39,200
You can see behind me.

2638
02:43:39,200 --> 02:43:41,400
There's a big old bunch of bookshelves there.

2639
02:43:41,400 --> 02:43:44,500
I know I try and I try and get as many as I can from the list,

2640
02:43:44,500 --> 02:43:46,600
but obviously I have to pump the break sometimes to actually

2641
02:43:46,600 --> 02:43:47,500
have time to read them.

2642
02:43:47,500 --> 02:43:50,700
But I'm always you know, I mean, I have body keeps the score.

2643
02:43:50,700 --> 02:43:51,800
I haven't actually cracked it yet.

2644
02:43:51,800 --> 02:43:54,000
I'm still still working away.

2645
02:43:54,000 --> 02:43:54,700
I got a lot of guests.

2646
02:43:54,700 --> 02:43:55,900
I got a lot of books coming up.

2647
02:43:55,900 --> 02:43:58,300
So I'm I'm speed reading at the moment.

2648
02:43:58,300 --> 02:44:00,700
But yeah, I love this question because it really does open the

2649
02:44:00,700 --> 02:44:02,600
door to so much information.

2650
02:44:02,600 --> 02:44:06,300
Yeah, I've been recommending that the conscious the

2651
02:44:06,300 --> 02:44:09,400
journey to co-commit into everyone because it's not just about

2652
02:44:10,500 --> 02:44:11,900
romantic relationships.

2653
02:44:11,900 --> 02:44:16,300
It's just about how you how your childhood exactly what you

2654
02:44:16,300 --> 02:44:20,600
were talking about how those behaviors become so ingrained

2655
02:44:20,600 --> 02:44:24,200
and the repetitive patterns that we establish and how that

2656
02:44:24,200 --> 02:44:28,000
leaves the foundation for communication and the way we show

2657
02:44:28,000 --> 02:44:33,900
up in every relationship in our lives and it offers you a way

2658
02:44:33,900 --> 02:44:37,300
to unravel all of that in a really simple way.

2659
02:44:37,300 --> 02:44:41,900
But because you know a lot of times we have the information.

2660
02:44:41,900 --> 02:44:45,900
I know I know I'm like this because my parents didn't love

2661
02:44:45,900 --> 02:44:46,400
me enough.

2662
02:44:46,400 --> 02:44:49,300
Well, okay, but what are you going to do about it?

2663
02:44:49,300 --> 02:44:53,800
Like that part is not your fault, but it's your responsibility

2664
02:44:53,800 --> 02:44:55,400
to heal it.

2665
02:44:55,400 --> 02:44:57,100
So that's a really good one.

2666
02:44:57,100 --> 02:44:59,600
When you have a chance check it out.

2667
02:44:59,600 --> 02:45:01,100
I will definitely thank you.

2668
02:45:01,100 --> 02:45:04,300
Well, the next question is there a person you recommend to

2669
02:45:04,300 --> 02:45:07,900
come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders

2670
02:45:07,900 --> 02:45:10,100
military and Associated Professions of the world?

2671
02:45:10,100 --> 02:45:16,600
Oh my gosh, I can make you a list of people that I think that

2672
02:45:16,600 --> 02:45:18,300
you should have on as a guest.

2673
02:45:18,300 --> 02:45:24,300
The first one I'm going to say is my friend Jason Bresler.

2674
02:45:24,300 --> 02:45:29,000
So Jason and I actually talked a while ago and he mentioned

2675
02:45:29,000 --> 02:45:33,000
he was writing a book so he wanted to wait but I mean this

2676
02:45:33,000 --> 02:45:34,200
was months ago we spoke now.

2677
02:45:34,200 --> 02:45:36,600
So I don't know if it would be a good time for him.

2678
02:45:36,600 --> 02:45:45,600
I love Jason and I love I mean, I don't love the whole experience

2679
02:45:45,600 --> 02:45:49,000
he had with the military and that whole thing, but I do love

2680
02:45:49,000 --> 02:45:55,300
the way he has taken his combat experience and applied it to

2681
02:45:55,300 --> 02:45:58,200
the fire floor with leadership on the fire.

2682
02:45:58,200 --> 02:46:00,600
Great organization.

2683
02:46:00,600 --> 02:46:08,000
Someone else my friend Tina atharol the one that the one that

2684
02:46:08,000 --> 02:46:11,700
I that I had referenced earlier.

2685
02:46:11,700 --> 02:46:15,000
She is a military spouse.

2686
02:46:15,000 --> 02:46:17,100
She started hope for the Warriors.

2687
02:46:17,100 --> 02:46:20,300
She was one of the founders of hope for the Warriors which started

2688
02:46:20,300 --> 02:46:24,400
out as a grassroots movement just to help the guys that had

2689
02:46:24,400 --> 02:46:31,000
been injured when they would come back to Camp Lejeune without

2690
02:46:31,000 --> 02:46:33,200
their unit, you know, the unit comes back and there's big

2691
02:46:33,200 --> 02:46:35,800
welcome home party, but then these other guys would come back

2692
02:46:35,800 --> 02:46:37,600
and there would be no one waiting for them.

2693
02:46:37,600 --> 02:46:42,000
So the wife sort of got together and started just by they would

2694
02:46:42,000 --> 02:46:47,800
run together and then they started raising money to welcome

2695
02:46:47,800 --> 02:46:53,200
these guys back home and now it's this huge national organization

2696
02:46:53,200 --> 02:47:00,200
Tina now works for psych armor and they make educational

2697
02:47:00,200 --> 02:47:04,400
material for other organizations all around the military

2698
02:47:04,400 --> 02:47:08,800
whether it is transitioning back home suicide intervention

2699
02:47:08,800 --> 02:47:12,000
prevention postvention.

2700
02:47:12,000 --> 02:47:18,700
I mean anything they make all of this educational material.

2701
02:47:18,700 --> 02:47:21,600
So that's that's Tina.

2702
02:47:21,600 --> 02:47:25,600
She also lost a family member in September 11.

2703
02:47:25,600 --> 02:47:32,200
So we always feel like we were brought together just serendipitously.

2704
02:47:32,200 --> 02:47:34,600
Who else?

2705
02:47:34,600 --> 02:47:42,600
I would say that it would be really interesting to have a kid

2706
02:47:42,600 --> 02:47:50,000
not a kid not a kid kid, but someone who lost a parent like I

2707
02:47:50,000 --> 02:47:53,800
would be interested to see if my like what my older guy would

2708
02:47:53,800 --> 02:48:00,200
have to say about his experience because it's shifted so much

2709
02:48:00,200 --> 02:48:05,000
from when he was a little guy not really knowing what was

2710
02:48:05,000 --> 02:48:08,900
going on and your perception of death and dying is so different

2711
02:48:08,900 --> 02:48:17,600
and now that he has his own son how that plays into his the way

2712
02:48:17,600 --> 02:48:23,200
that he frames the entire experience and you've had them some

2713
02:48:23,200 --> 02:48:28,700
children of FDMPD that were lost even go into those professions

2714
02:48:28,700 --> 02:48:30,100
to which I think is very interesting.

2715
02:48:30,100 --> 02:48:30,800
Yeah.

2716
02:48:30,800 --> 02:48:31,400
Yeah.

2717
02:48:31,400 --> 02:48:31,900
Yeah.

2718
02:48:31,900 --> 02:48:35,400
Someone just someone recently.

2719
02:48:35,400 --> 02:48:39,600
I'm trying to think of who it was.

2720
02:48:39,600 --> 02:48:43,000
I can't the name isn't coming to me, but there was someone who

2721
02:48:43,000 --> 02:48:45,700
who just I mean there were a bunch of kids that graduated from

2722
02:48:45,700 --> 02:48:50,900
the last Academy class that had brought my my two of my nephews

2723
02:48:50,900 --> 02:48:54,800
graduated from the last Academy class.

2724
02:48:54,800 --> 02:48:56,700
Beautiful.

2725
02:48:56,700 --> 02:48:57,500
Yeah.

2726
02:48:57,500 --> 02:49:00,200
So I mean like you said, there's so many so many people out there

2727
02:49:00,200 --> 02:49:02,200
and that's that's the beautiful thing about this podcast.

2728
02:49:02,200 --> 02:49:03,600
We've been talking almost three hours now.

2729
02:49:03,600 --> 02:49:06,100
I know I can't believe it's been three hours.

2730
02:49:06,100 --> 02:49:09,000
I'm like what the hell that went quick.

2731
02:49:09,000 --> 02:49:11,500
So let me see that.

2732
02:49:11,500 --> 02:49:14,600
So the last question I want to make sure I ask you before we

2733
02:49:14,600 --> 02:49:17,500
go to where people can find you where people can find your

2734
02:49:17,500 --> 02:49:19,000
projects now.

2735
02:49:19,000 --> 02:49:21,400
What do you do to decompress?

2736
02:49:21,400 --> 02:49:28,600
Oh, that's a good one because I'm so good at decompressing now.

2737
02:49:28,600 --> 02:49:31,900
I find that number one.

2738
02:49:31,900 --> 02:49:34,000
I make sure that I get enough rest.

2739
02:49:34,000 --> 02:49:38,000
That's my you know, everybody's always on this keep busy.

2740
02:49:38,000 --> 02:49:38,600
Keep busy.

2741
02:49:38,600 --> 02:49:44,000
Keep busy kind of a if you're not busy, you're not productive.

2742
02:49:44,000 --> 02:49:48,000
But for me, I am very empathic.

2743
02:49:48,000 --> 02:49:55,200
I require a lot of downtime and I used to consider that being

2744
02:49:55,200 --> 02:49:58,000
lazy because I grew up in a home where like I wasn't even

2745
02:49:58,000 --> 02:49:59,000
allowed to nap.

2746
02:49:59,000 --> 02:50:01,700
I would get in trouble if I like tried to take a nap.

2747
02:50:01,700 --> 02:50:07,800
So I was like, wow, I'm so like I'm lazy, but it's not that if

2748
02:50:07,800 --> 02:50:09,000
I don't do that.

2749
02:50:09,000 --> 02:50:11,300
I'm not productive at all.

2750
02:50:11,300 --> 02:50:14,000
So rest is number one.

2751
02:50:14,000 --> 02:50:17,800
I meditate daily.

2752
02:50:17,800 --> 02:50:23,600
I have different ritual practices that I do like I have a

2753
02:50:23,600 --> 02:50:28,100
morning ritual of you know, I get up.

2754
02:50:28,100 --> 02:50:29,600
I do my meditation.

2755
02:50:29,600 --> 02:50:32,300
I set my intention for the day.

2756
02:50:32,300 --> 02:50:35,900
I go out for a walk.

2757
02:50:35,900 --> 02:50:37,800
Take my dogs with me.

2758
02:50:37,800 --> 02:50:42,400
And that is I have a you know, make a little gratitude list

2759
02:50:42,400 --> 02:50:46,800
and that is how I start my every day at night.

2760
02:50:46,800 --> 02:50:52,800
I try to do the same as far as reviewing my day and instead

2761
02:50:52,800 --> 02:50:55,800
of saying, oh, I didn't do this and I should have done that.

2762
02:50:55,800 --> 02:51:03,400
I'm just grateful for being able to just make it through another

2763
02:51:03,400 --> 02:51:07,700
day honestly, but I go over the things that made me happy.

2764
02:51:07,700 --> 02:51:17,200
And we count my my gratitude at the you know, at the end of the

2765
02:51:17,200 --> 02:51:22,600
day and then when I go to sleep, I listen to meditations that

2766
02:51:22,600 --> 02:51:24,900
are meant for you to listen to while you're sleeping.

2767
02:51:24,900 --> 02:51:29,500
So yeah, I do all of that stuff.

2768
02:51:29,500 --> 02:51:33,600
I also you know, I rock a lot now that I'm training.

2769
02:51:33,600 --> 02:51:37,600
I have to I've been rocking at least five miles every day.

2770
02:51:37,600 --> 02:51:40,000
And then getting another workout later on in the day.

2771
02:51:40,000 --> 02:51:44,800
So movement is the big huge part.

2772
02:51:44,800 --> 02:51:49,400
I you know, yoga all all of that dancing and then I like to

2773
02:51:49,400 --> 02:51:54,400
spend time with people that I care about that's that's super

2774
02:51:54,400 --> 02:52:02,500
important to me making time for friends family, you know, I

2775
02:52:02,500 --> 02:52:08,000
try to live my life through I call it I don't want to even

2776
02:52:08,000 --> 02:52:08,800
call it intuition.

2777
02:52:08,800 --> 02:52:12,200
It's like I ask myself in the beginning of the day.

2778
02:52:12,200 --> 02:52:16,800
What is your soul like what's your soul longing for today?

2779
02:52:16,800 --> 02:52:19,600
And then I am fortunate enough.

2780
02:52:19,600 --> 02:52:24,000
I know I don't have to work nine to five and unfortunate enough

2781
02:52:24,000 --> 02:52:29,200
to be able to attempt to honor that regularly.

2782
02:52:29,200 --> 02:52:36,000
So my trick to decompression is really trying not to allow

2783
02:52:36,000 --> 02:52:40,100
myself to get to a place where I'm way up here and I really

2784
02:52:40,100 --> 02:52:42,700
have to work to come back to Center.

2785
02:52:42,700 --> 02:52:44,600
I try to stay centered.

2786
02:52:44,600 --> 02:52:46,600
Beautiful.

2787
02:52:46,600 --> 02:52:49,800
So to close you have a project strong and soulful.

2788
02:52:49,800 --> 02:52:52,100
You have obviously an online presence.

2789
02:52:52,100 --> 02:52:53,100
You have the rock.

2790
02:52:53,100 --> 02:52:55,400
Where can people learn more about you?

2791
02:52:55,400 --> 02:52:58,300
Where can they find you online social media that kind of thing?

2792
02:52:58,300 --> 02:53:04,600
They can find me at strong and soulful on Instagram.

2793
02:53:04,600 --> 02:53:09,100
They can I mean my personal Instagram is I don't even know

2794
02:53:09,100 --> 02:53:09,500
what it is.

2795
02:53:09,500 --> 02:53:15,000
I think it's Denise Olsen 0 9 2 5 but strong and soulful is

2796
02:53:15,000 --> 02:53:20,900
my is my business Instagram, which I'm trying I just I just

2797
02:53:20,900 --> 02:53:21,600
started it.

2798
02:53:21,600 --> 02:53:23,600
I actually started it last year.

2799
02:53:23,600 --> 02:53:27,400
I don't know if did you get to see that where I went from

2800
02:53:27,400 --> 02:53:28,700
the first to the 11th.

2801
02:53:28,700 --> 02:53:34,800
I recounted my whole 9-eleven experience and how you could

2802
02:53:34,800 --> 02:53:37,100
apply what I learned to quarantine.

2803
02:53:37,700 --> 02:53:38,900
No, I missed it.

2804
02:53:38,900 --> 02:53:42,600
No, sadly that's the thing is I'm I'm a very selfish social

2805
02:53:42,600 --> 02:53:46,100
media user because I don't like getting sucked in too much.

2806
02:53:46,100 --> 02:53:49,200
So I normally post and if it doesn't pop up in the first two

2807
02:53:49,200 --> 02:53:51,800
or three things and then it's lost an ether.

2808
02:53:51,800 --> 02:53:53,300
So I completely missed that.

2809
02:53:54,100 --> 02:53:55,200
Well, it's still there.

2810
02:53:55,200 --> 02:53:59,100
It's like it's it's a whole bunch of video posts like the

2811
02:53:59,100 --> 02:54:00,000
IGTV.

2812
02:54:00,000 --> 02:54:01,200
So they're still there.

2813
02:54:01,200 --> 02:54:04,300
But if anybody is interested in hearing more of the story if

2814
02:54:04,300 --> 02:54:09,000
they go to strong and soulful on Instagram, they'll be able

2815
02:54:09,000 --> 02:54:14,400
to see that and that's where I I've been doing interviews

2816
02:54:14,400 --> 02:54:18,900
like every Thursday mostly I've been doing mostly for women

2817
02:54:18,900 --> 02:54:20,800
because I'm shifting my focus.

2818
02:54:20,800 --> 02:54:25,100
I mean, I still have all of my military stuff that I want to

2819
02:54:25,100 --> 02:54:28,800
keep, you know, keep supporting military working on PTSD and

2820
02:54:28,800 --> 02:54:29,800
trauma and all of that.

2821
02:54:29,800 --> 02:54:35,300
But I'm also being called to work with women specifically on

2822
02:54:37,600 --> 02:54:45,100
just owning your owning your power showing up as the person

2823
02:54:45,100 --> 02:54:46,300
that you were meant to be.

2824
02:54:46,300 --> 02:54:50,800
So so I call it the remembering, you know, we know the

2825
02:54:50,800 --> 02:54:54,100
remembering coming back to who you were meant to be before you

2826
02:54:54,100 --> 02:54:57,500
took on all these other roles that mostly are used to serve

2827
02:54:57,500 --> 02:55:01,400
other people whether it's your family of origin the family

2828
02:55:01,400 --> 02:55:07,400
that you're with right now, you know, so that's the other side

2829
02:55:07,400 --> 02:55:07,900
of my work.

2830
02:55:07,900 --> 02:55:12,300
I leave meditation classes around that and I am actually in

2831
02:55:12,300 --> 02:55:15,200
the process of developing a workshop for that.

2832
02:55:17,200 --> 02:55:22,600
And as far as the rock, Danny created a Facebook page called

2833
02:55:22,600 --> 02:55:28,300
the heroes rock Boston's World Trade Center that's on Facebook.

2834
02:55:33,200 --> 02:55:37,300
But if anyone wants to reach out to me for any other information

2835
02:55:37,300 --> 02:55:39,800
they could always DM me right on Instagram.

2836
02:55:41,700 --> 02:55:44,500
I mean my web page is being built right now.

2837
02:55:44,500 --> 02:55:47,500
That'll be strong and soulful also, but it's not done yet.

2838
02:55:47,700 --> 02:55:50,300
Okay, but that'll be linked to the Instagram page eventually

2839
02:55:50,300 --> 02:55:50,800
when it's done.

2840
02:55:50,800 --> 02:55:51,200
Yeah.

2841
02:55:51,200 --> 02:55:52,800
Brilliant.

2842
02:55:52,800 --> 02:55:54,600
Well, I just want to say thank you Denise.

2843
02:55:54,600 --> 02:55:59,900
I mean, it's so important for us to hear these stories and what

2844
02:55:59,900 --> 02:56:04,300
I always make sure I say at the end is I know that your story

2845
02:56:04,300 --> 02:56:06,800
is going to help a huge amount of people whether it's people

2846
02:56:06,800 --> 02:56:10,100
that are actually really needing to hear this whether it's just

2847
02:56:10,100 --> 02:56:15,300
educating us the masses on another perspective of the cost

2848
02:56:15,300 --> 02:56:17,900
of that day and all the you know, the ripple effects we talked

2849
02:56:17,900 --> 02:56:21,900
about but also acknowledging that there's a toll every time,

2850
02:56:22,000 --> 02:56:24,700
you know, someone tells a story like you said, it's therapeutic

2851
02:56:24,700 --> 02:56:28,200
to a point and sometimes it can be, you know, peeling scabs

2852
02:56:28,200 --> 02:56:29,200
off wounds as it were.

2853
02:56:29,200 --> 02:56:32,700
So I want to thank you for being so courageous and transparent

2854
02:56:32,700 --> 02:56:36,000
today and also just being so generous with your time giving

2855
02:56:36,000 --> 02:56:38,200
us three hours to hear your story.

2856
02:56:40,600 --> 02:56:45,500
I don't know if that means I talk too much, but I want to thank

2857
02:56:45,500 --> 02:56:50,300
you for taking people's stories and holding them as sacred

2858
02:56:50,300 --> 02:56:53,100
as they are because like we were discussing earlier, there

2859
02:56:53,100 --> 02:56:59,400
are so many people that take stories and use it for their

2860
02:56:59,400 --> 02:57:05,300
own purposes sometimes misconstruing or completely missing

2861
02:57:05,300 --> 02:57:06,500
the point of the story.

2862
02:57:06,500 --> 02:57:12,200
So I appreciate your authenticity and your desire.

2863
02:57:12,200 --> 02:57:16,700
I mean, what a calling to take people and give them a platform

2864
02:57:16,700 --> 02:57:23,400
to share things that are honestly, you know, they're difficult

2865
02:57:23,400 --> 02:57:24,700
but they're there.

2866
02:57:24,700 --> 02:57:29,800
I mean, it's it's almost the most sacred part of your life

2867
02:57:29,800 --> 02:57:38,000
sharing things that are so traumatic, you know, I think

2868
02:57:38,000 --> 02:57:40,300
I think my grandmother used to tell me I have the gift of

2869
02:57:40,300 --> 02:57:42,600
gab and this is how I teach.

2870
02:57:42,600 --> 02:57:45,700
I just I love stories.

2871
02:57:45,700 --> 02:57:47,500
I love hearing other people's stories.

2872
02:57:47,500 --> 02:57:50,300
I want someone to put you on a podcast.

2873
02:57:51,000 --> 02:57:52,100
That's what I want.

2874
02:57:52,300 --> 02:57:55,400
I've been on a few actually there is there's one coming up

2875
02:57:55,400 --> 02:58:02,200
on this show a friend of mine Ryan Parrott who's a veteran

2876
02:58:02,200 --> 02:58:08,000
Navy SEAL who now started a project called Oh my god sons

2877
02:58:08,000 --> 02:58:08,500
of the flag.

2878
02:58:08,500 --> 02:58:10,300
My brain just blank for a second.

2879
02:58:11,400 --> 02:58:13,000
He's about to do some incredible things.

2880
02:58:13,000 --> 02:58:15,800
I'm I'm I mean, he's already doing incredible things about

2881
02:58:15,800 --> 02:58:20,500
to embark in an insane kind of fundraising journey that I've

2882
02:58:20,500 --> 02:58:22,500
been blessed to be a part of.

2883
02:58:22,500 --> 02:58:26,500
So he said he wants to turn turn the microphone around which

2884
02:58:26,900 --> 02:58:27,800
I'm terrified.

2885
02:58:29,400 --> 02:58:31,200
But yeah, it'll be it'll be good.

2886
02:58:31,200 --> 02:58:31,800
It'll be fun.

2887
02:58:31,800 --> 02:58:33,700
It just comes natural to you.

2888
02:58:33,700 --> 02:58:35,900
You like to talk you like to listen.

2889
02:58:35,900 --> 02:58:39,100
So, I mean that's the joy of podcasting.

2890
02:58:39,300 --> 02:58:39,800
Yes.

2891
02:58:39,900 --> 02:58:43,300
No it is and I think that's just it that long form conversation.

2892
02:58:43,300 --> 02:58:45,600
I mean you didn't talk too much at all.

2893
02:58:45,600 --> 02:58:49,100
You just you know actually got to finish your thought process

2894
02:58:49,100 --> 02:58:50,700
and I see this over and over again.

2895
02:58:50,700 --> 02:58:55,900
I mean some of my shorter ones if there's not you know that

2896
02:58:55,900 --> 02:58:57,900
that true connection which happens sometimes especially

2897
02:58:57,900 --> 02:58:59,800
people have done a lot of interviews and they kind of go

2898
02:58:59,800 --> 02:59:03,600
into interview mode usually some of the short ones is just

2899
02:59:03,600 --> 02:59:06,400
time constraints because I feel like most of these I could

2900
02:59:06,400 --> 02:59:08,400
keep talking for hours even after they stop.

2901
02:59:08,400 --> 02:59:13,000
So yeah, I know I actually you know, it's funny and doing

2902
02:59:13,000 --> 02:59:13,800
those interviews.

2903
02:59:13,800 --> 02:59:17,500
I do them like every Thursday on Instagram live and it's

2904
02:59:17,500 --> 02:59:22,300
been women that I know that I just completely admire and so

2905
02:59:22,300 --> 02:59:24,900
Tina who I told you one of my best friends I couldn't wait

2906
02:59:24,900 --> 02:59:29,500
to get her on and you know, I figured CEO of psych armor

2907
02:59:29,500 --> 02:59:35,100
has it was the hardest her and I talk so often that when I

2908
02:59:35,100 --> 02:59:36,800
was trying to talk to her live.

2909
02:59:36,800 --> 02:59:39,300
I'm like I didn't even know where to begin.

2910
02:59:39,800 --> 02:59:41,200
I felt like I knew everything.

2911
02:59:41,200 --> 02:59:44,500
It wasn't anything I was curious about and it was hard

2912
02:59:44,500 --> 02:59:46,800
for me to keep the conversation going.

2913
02:59:46,800 --> 02:59:50,500
Meanwhile, I mean when I say we talk every day, it's like

2914
02:59:50,500 --> 02:59:53,100
we talk every day and I couldn't get a con it was it was

2915
02:59:53,100 --> 02:59:55,900
the oddest oddest thing was really funny.

2916
02:59:56,000 --> 02:59:58,400
Yeah, it's definitely it's an interesting dynamic.

2917
02:59:58,400 --> 03:00:00,700
But when you get in that flow and you're recording I think

2918
03:00:00,700 --> 03:00:03,400
it's it's a beautiful thing and you know, I listen to

2919
03:00:03,400 --> 03:00:04,700
podcasts how I got into it.

2920
03:00:04,700 --> 03:00:07,600
I love podcasts and I my wife's four hours away now in

2921
03:00:07,600 --> 03:00:08,300
medical school.

2922
03:00:08,300 --> 03:00:12,100
So we commute back and forth and weekends and now I get

2923
03:00:12,100 --> 03:00:13,700
some time to really hard.

2924
03:00:13,700 --> 03:00:17,100
It's a challenge, but it's you know, it is what it is.

2925
03:00:17,100 --> 03:00:19,600
But now, you know, I've got four hours to fill well, you

2926
03:00:19,600 --> 03:00:22,200
know this conversation would have pretty much, you know,

2927
03:00:22,200 --> 03:00:23,400
taking care of the whole journey.

2928
03:00:23,400 --> 03:00:25,600
So yeah, so and you're engaged.

2929
03:00:25,600 --> 03:00:28,100
I always tell people you you leave your house something you

2930
03:00:28,100 --> 03:00:30,000
get to your destination a little smarter than you left

2931
03:00:30,000 --> 03:00:30,400
your house.

2932
03:00:30,400 --> 03:00:34,800
So, you know versus you listen to some cheesy DJ on local

2933
03:00:34,800 --> 03:00:36,600
radio and you're probably a little bit dumber than you

2934
03:00:36,600 --> 03:00:41,400
were before so I 100% agree with that.

2935
03:00:41,400 --> 03:00:44,300
I've been really like with the rock.

2936
03:00:44,300 --> 03:00:47,600
I've been listening to podcasts like oh my gosh one after

2937
03:00:47,600 --> 03:00:52,300
the other because I sometimes I want to listen to music

2938
03:00:52,300 --> 03:00:54,200
but I'm like I'm out here for hours.

2939
03:00:54,200 --> 03:00:59,200
I don't want to waste so much, you know, so much time.

2940
03:00:59,200 --> 03:01:02,500
So I feel like you do if I'm listening to a podcast and

2941
03:01:02,500 --> 03:01:25,200
at least learning something.