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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name's James Geering,

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and this week I have an extremely unusual

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and unique episode for you.

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I have done almost a thousand episodes now,

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and each one of those is with a guest.

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But after really trying to be one of the voices

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to push the 2472 firefighter work week

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as the industry standard,

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I have been inundated with messages,

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which is a beautiful thing.

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So rather than keep answering the same questions

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over and over and over again,

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I wanted to create a free resource

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collating all of the great minds

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that I've had on the show talking about this,

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so you can then use it as an open source document

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to give to your fellow firefighters, your union,

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your city, your county, your civilians,

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whoever needs to hear it to understand

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that there are absolutely fixable solutions

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to the physical and mental health crisis

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and the recruitment crisis

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that we are enduring in the fire service.

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What I'm also gonna do,

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if you go to the YouTube channel

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or the webpage for this on jamesgeering.com,

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I'm going to list all of the resources

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that I talk about on here.

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So there will be hyperlinks.

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So you wanna listen to Professor Russell Foster,

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the man who literally discovered

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the chronoreceptors in the eye,

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then you'll be able to just click on that link

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and you'll take you straight to that episode.

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So before we get to this, I would say conversation,

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it's a monologue this time.

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I wanna add one more thing.

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I was responding to questions that you will see

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if you go to the video side.

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Most of us, I think, listen to podcasts.

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So it will sound a little strange

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because I'm answering questions that I'm reading.

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If I did it again,

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obviously I would verbalize those questions for the audio.

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So towards the end, you will hear me answering questions.

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Hopefully it's still seamless,

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but that's why all of a sudden

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I'm talking about different things.

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So as I mentioned,

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this is a free library of almost a thousand episodes now.

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So all I ask is that you share these incredible

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men and women stories, and in this case, this episode,

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so I can get it to every single person on planet earth

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who needs to hear it.

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So with that being said,

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here is the episode on how to transition

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to a 2472 firefighter work week.

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Enjoy.

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All right.

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Well, I want to welcome everyone to this once in a lifetime,

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me monologuing podcast.

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The reason I am doing this,

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I will get to who I am and the origin story in a second.

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I don't ever, ever normally talk on a podcast on my own.

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I've done almost a thousand interviews now

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and every single one is with a guest.

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However, when it comes to the topic of the 2472,

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I have had so many questions

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and they're the same questions over and over again,

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which is amazing.

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I think I love the fact that I'm getting all these questions,

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but obviously the solution is to create a video like this

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and an audio like this.

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So I will kind of lead everyone through the questions

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that I hear over and over again.

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I invite you to ask questions if you'd like to.

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And then hopefully then this will be a living document

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for you, because as you will hear when they say,

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where's the research, where's the data?

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There's a good reason why you can't find it.

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So I wanted to create it.

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I wanted to have a way of answering all these questions

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so that when it's your union, your administration,

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or your city, or your county, or your husband,

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or your wife, whoever it is,

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that you can just show them this

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and it will give them all the solutions.

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So I am gonna get to these questions I'm about to say now.

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So I'm gonna kind of follow a structure

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just to keep it flowing.

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But some of the biggest questions I get is,

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how can our department even afford X amount more firefighters?

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We will get to that and the money is already there.

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This is why this is so crazy

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the way we're doing at the moment.

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The money is literally there.

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We're already short staffed.

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How can we hire extra people?

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We can't even fill the holes now.

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We will get to that too.

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Again, there is a solution

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that has actually been shown to be true

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by some of the local departments here

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that have recently moved to this shift schedule.

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We're gonna have to take a pay cut.

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Another fairy tale, no, and we'll explain why.

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I'm not gonna get any of these yet,

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just to let you know they are coming.

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Where is the data?

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Where are the studies?

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Another, it's a great question,

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but I can tell you where you will find

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absolutely comparable studies,

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but I will also show you where there's such a lack

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of research in our profession, specifically in this area.

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So starting with an introduction, who am I?

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I am literally a normal firefighter

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and this is why I do what I do.

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I wasn't at the World Trade Center

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or the Grenfell Fire in London or 911 or 77.

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I am the other 99.9% of firefighters

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that day in, day out ran to normal calls.

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Some absolutely horrendous, some completely benign,

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and it's the death by a thousand cuts.

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I originally came from England,

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as you can probably tell from the accent,

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and became a firefighter 20 years ago.

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So I entered the fire service in 2004,

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and back then everyone was testing,

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and we'll get into that,

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the stark contrast between 04 and 24 as far as hiring.

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But I had a very gypsy career in the fire service,

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following my son's mother.

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She was pursuing fame, which took me,

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I trained in Orlando, took me down to Miami

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for a Hialeah fire over to Anaheim Fire, California

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for a few years as a tillerman, loved that job.

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Then came back because of my little boy,

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and then spent the last 10 years

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in the kind of Orlando area in a couple of departments.

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But what it did is it gave me a very unique perspective

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of the fire service.

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And in that group, I would argue,

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one of the best fire departments on the planet

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in that group is probably one the opposite side.

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Some extremely affluent departments

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and extremely poor departments, East Coast and West Coast.

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So you got to see the commonalities,

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as well as the differences.

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A side note, I also am a sports science grad from the UK,

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and then a sports science bachelor graduate

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here in UF in Florida.

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So exercise physiology, excuse me.

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I've been a lifelong athlete

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and a coach for most of my life as well.

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So expert in absolutely nothing,

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but I've got a solid health background.

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And the origin story of the podcast was 10 years ago,

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10 years into my career, I just started going to funerals

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and they weren't dying of everything, excuse me.

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They weren't dying of one thing,

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they were dying of everything.

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So it was the heart attacks and the cancers

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and the strokes and the suicides and the overdoses

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and the autoimmune diseases.

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And friend after friend after friend,

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was last call bells and bagpipes.

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And it broke my heart.

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And I realized that the fire service were very reactive

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and we're extremely good at that.

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You can be a dead sleep, push three numbers on a phone

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and we jump up, slide down a pole

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and go mitigate whatever your disaster is.

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But we're not proactive, we're not designed to be proactive.

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And when it came to the firefighter health element,

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I realized that that was actually detrimental

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because we kept doing the same thing over and over,

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expecting different results, i.e. insanity.

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And so with this wellness, exercise physiology,

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health background, I was looking for a podcast

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to listen to and I'd listened to Barbell Shrugged

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and there was a Navy Seal, Dr. Kirk Parsley.

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So he was a pre-9-11 seal, went to med school,

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went back to the West Coast teams as their physician.

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And very long story short, within about a year or so

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of all these insane blood works of these Uber athletes

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that their blood work made them look like

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they were an 80 year old woman,

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he realized that it was sleep deprivation

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that was really destroying his tactical athletes.

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And he got with this command,

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he changed the way they trained, a lot less night ops,

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a lot more rest and recovery.

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And he was able to completely reverse

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all the testosterone drops and the cortisol peaks

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and get them back to where they needed to be.

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Well, I'm listening to this 10 years ago, nine years ago,

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going, well, why are we not talking about this

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in the fire service?

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So I couldn't find a firefighter health podcast back then.

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And so I was like, okay, well then there's my sign.

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So eight years ago, Behind the Shield was born.

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It's a completely free podcast.

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Everything on there is open source library.

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There's no Patreon, there's no VIP, nothing.

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I just wanna bring the greatest minds of wellness to you,

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the first responders, military, medical professionals

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and everyone else.

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So that's who I am.

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I'm no one, I'm just another firefighter.

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I'm no one special, but I'm someone who's so sick

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and tired of burying people.

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So I wanna start with the shift myths

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because I think this is one of the reasons

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I'm gonna be fair to all of us,

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whether you're a firefighter, whether you're a chief,

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whether you're a city administrator,

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we have all told ourselves fairy tales for a long time.

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From my level, I never promoted,

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I was a firefighter the whole time

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and I absolutely loved it and a paramedic as well.

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We have walked around, beaten our chest,

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telling the public that we have the most amazing schedule,

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that we only work 10 days a month.

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I work one day on, two days off.

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And most of my career, I worked 56, no Kelly.

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And so at that level, I'm gonna explain why we're so wrong.

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So just, my camera looks blurry, I hope it's actually not.

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It's gonna point this not towards my groin, but to these.

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Okay, so you've got 10 shifts.

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One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10.

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So we say we work 10 days a month.

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Oh, as I completely mess this camera up, there we go.

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Put that back.

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All right, so here's one of your shifts.

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Well, no one talks to us about,

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is that 24 hour period consists of three, eight hour days.

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So that's not one day, that's three days.

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The average civilian work day is a nine hour day

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with one hour lunch.

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So we have been kind of telling ourselves this fairy tale

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that we work one day on, two days off.

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And we don't, we work three days on, one day off.

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Because the second of those three days,

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you work from midnight to 8 a.m. shift change.

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So that's already a day you've worked.

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So you've only got that third day,

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which as most of us know, you're ramping up towards

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getting all your stuff ready to get up at five,

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which I used to do,

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and then drive all the way to the station again.

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So that doesn't make it 10 days a month,

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it makes it 30 days a month.

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Now what's interesting, as I've heard a few times,

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and I disagree with this completely,

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but people will say, well, the fire service

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is like a business.

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Well, if it is like a business,

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then why are we working on firefighters

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like an Indonesian sweatshop,

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00:11:00,940 --> 00:11:05,420
instead of the progressive leaders in the corporate space?

263
00:11:05,420 --> 00:11:08,740
If you look at Google and Virgin and all these, you know,

264
00:11:08,740 --> 00:11:11,540
good, extremely successful corporations,

265
00:11:11,540 --> 00:11:14,540
they're now going down to a four day work week.

266
00:11:14,540 --> 00:11:17,420
That's 32 hour civilian work week.

267
00:11:17,420 --> 00:11:19,500
And finding productivity is just as good,

268
00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:21,220
there's a lot more innovation,

269
00:11:21,220 --> 00:11:24,460
and the happiness and camaraderie of their employees

270
00:11:24,460 --> 00:11:26,020
has gone through the roof.

271
00:11:26,020 --> 00:11:29,300
So we are turning our backs on all of these signs

272
00:11:29,300 --> 00:11:30,620
of what's wrong.

273
00:11:30,620 --> 00:11:33,180
Now in the upper levels, you know,

274
00:11:33,180 --> 00:11:35,340
then they just sit around, you know,

275
00:11:35,340 --> 00:11:37,860
they sleep, don't rest in the lazy boy, all that stuff.

276
00:11:37,860 --> 00:11:38,940
This is kind of what you start hearing

277
00:11:38,940 --> 00:11:40,540
from the chief level, you know,

278
00:11:40,540 --> 00:11:42,660
and the reality is if you actually spend time

279
00:11:42,660 --> 00:11:46,380
in the stations, a lot of us are working all day,

280
00:11:46,380 --> 00:11:48,380
and you know, some stations most of the night,

281
00:11:48,380 --> 00:11:50,700
if not all the night, is there times, you know,

282
00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:52,260
are there times where we sleep?

283
00:11:52,260 --> 00:11:54,140
Yes, but is that a good quality sleep?

284
00:11:54,140 --> 00:11:55,420
Absolutely not.

285
00:11:55,420 --> 00:11:57,260
And I've had numerous sleep experts,

286
00:11:57,260 --> 00:11:59,780
I'm gonna give you a whole load of episode titles

287
00:11:59,780 --> 00:12:01,180
so you can look it up.

288
00:12:01,180 --> 00:12:05,340
But I always tell people, if you imagine going to bed

289
00:12:05,340 --> 00:12:08,660
and someone's got those big symbols from the orchestra

290
00:12:08,660 --> 00:12:10,500
and they stand over your bed and they say,

291
00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:12,820
I may or may not smash these in your ear

292
00:12:12,820 --> 00:12:15,180
at some point tonight, maybe multiple times,

293
00:12:15,180 --> 00:12:16,460
how well are you gonna sleep?

294
00:12:16,460 --> 00:12:19,780
We physically cannot get into a deep restorative sleep

295
00:12:19,780 --> 00:12:22,220
in a fire station, which it doesn't matter

296
00:12:22,220 --> 00:12:25,340
if we are physically up or not, it's disturbed sleep,

297
00:12:25,340 --> 00:12:27,580
it's, you know, interrupted sleep.

298
00:12:27,580 --> 00:12:32,380
So then when it comes to the city and all the public,

299
00:12:32,380 --> 00:12:36,180
we as a profession have done a horrible job of branding,

300
00:12:36,180 --> 00:12:37,940
of showing them what we actually do.

301
00:12:37,940 --> 00:12:41,180
And it is insane that people still say,

302
00:12:41,180 --> 00:12:43,620
why is there a fire engine on my medical call

303
00:12:43,620 --> 00:12:46,260
when we've been doing EMS for 50 years now?

304
00:12:46,260 --> 00:12:48,580
You know, they still think that we sit around

305
00:12:48,580 --> 00:12:52,420
and we play cards and we work out and that's it.

306
00:12:52,420 --> 00:12:56,340
And I think what really does a disservice is people say,

307
00:12:56,340 --> 00:12:57,940
oh yeah, but what about those, you know,

308
00:12:57,940 --> 00:13:00,580
we got a station where there's only one call a shift

309
00:13:00,580 --> 00:13:02,540
or one call every couple shifts.

310
00:13:02,540 --> 00:13:03,700
All right, well good.

311
00:13:03,700 --> 00:13:06,940
But I'm concerned about the people that are getting destroyed

312
00:13:06,940 --> 00:13:08,460
in all the other busy stations.

313
00:13:08,460 --> 00:13:10,660
But for some reason we focus on that one.

314
00:13:10,660 --> 00:13:12,260
Those usually are gonna be firefighters

315
00:13:12,260 --> 00:13:14,100
that have had been in the meat grinder

316
00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:16,420
for 20 plus years,

317
00:13:16,420 --> 00:13:20,540
who at this point now kind of deserve to be

318
00:13:20,540 --> 00:13:23,060
in the quiet station if we're being completely honest.

319
00:13:23,060 --> 00:13:25,220
So dispelling the myths and understanding

320
00:13:25,220 --> 00:13:27,260
that every single rung of the ladder,

321
00:13:27,260 --> 00:13:29,340
we all have kind of got it wrong

322
00:13:29,340 --> 00:13:30,460
because it was a great system

323
00:13:30,460 --> 00:13:32,220
when we were just running fires.

324
00:13:32,220 --> 00:13:35,020
But you add in EMS and then the 911 abuse

325
00:13:35,020 --> 00:13:37,740
and all the other calls that we respond to now,

326
00:13:37,740 --> 00:13:41,140
you know, it's not the fire service of 40, 50 years ago,

327
00:13:41,140 --> 00:13:44,180
but our shift schedule was never changed.

328
00:13:44,180 --> 00:13:46,860
And I think most of the departments I've worked at,

329
00:13:46,860 --> 00:13:48,900
their staffing hasn't, you know,

330
00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:52,060
hasn't increased for a long, long time.

331
00:13:52,060 --> 00:13:54,340
So those are the shift myths

332
00:13:54,340 --> 00:13:56,180
that I think it's important for us to understand

333
00:13:56,180 --> 00:13:59,220
because this is why I'm so passionate about it.

334
00:13:59,220 --> 00:14:01,180
The very first question needs to be

335
00:14:01,180 --> 00:14:02,900
for all of us to look in the mirror and go,

336
00:14:02,900 --> 00:14:07,860
why is it that the bank teller stops at 40 hours,

337
00:14:07,860 --> 00:14:11,860
but the person who goes, you know, wakes from a deep sleep,

338
00:14:11,860 --> 00:14:14,340
you know, goes to the pole, goes down,

339
00:14:14,340 --> 00:14:17,420
drives a rig or drives the back of the tiller to a call,

340
00:14:17,420 --> 00:14:19,820
you know, pulls ladders, makes entry, does a search,

341
00:14:19,820 --> 00:14:22,300
pulls someone out, then is trying to work out

342
00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:25,100
cardiac algorithm, you know, drug calculations,

343
00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:26,980
that that person is totally fine for them

344
00:14:26,980 --> 00:14:29,460
to be working 56 plus hours a week.

345
00:14:29,460 --> 00:14:31,900
And then you add in the mandatory crisis

346
00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:33,980
that we have, the recruitment crisis,

347
00:14:33,980 --> 00:14:35,260
it's 80 hours a week.

348
00:14:35,260 --> 00:14:38,180
And I work mandatory a lot in my career.

349
00:14:38,180 --> 00:14:40,140
And this is, you know, agencies on the other side

350
00:14:40,140 --> 00:14:42,940
of the country, you know, a huge amount.

351
00:14:42,940 --> 00:14:45,300
And that's an 80 hour week with one mandatory.

352
00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:48,540
So that's double that bank teller now.

353
00:14:48,540 --> 00:14:50,060
And no one is going to be able to explain that.

354
00:14:50,060 --> 00:14:51,660
Can you, you know, if you can justify

355
00:14:51,660 --> 00:14:54,620
why we need to be working longer, I'm all ears.

356
00:14:54,620 --> 00:14:57,220
But the important thing to underline is

357
00:14:57,220 --> 00:14:59,980
if the way that we did it worked,

358
00:14:59,980 --> 00:15:03,180
we wouldn't have this crisis of cancer and heart attacks

359
00:15:03,180 --> 00:15:05,940
and suicides and overdoses and divorces.

360
00:15:05,940 --> 00:15:08,060
If it worked, I would be wasting my time

361
00:15:08,060 --> 00:15:08,900
because everyone would be happy

362
00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:09,740
and everyone would be healthy

363
00:15:09,740 --> 00:15:11,540
but James, I don't know what you're talking about.

364
00:15:11,540 --> 00:15:14,100
But if you put your hand on your heart,

365
00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:16,900
you know damn well that it's not working.

366
00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:19,180
If you're in the Northeast and you already work

367
00:15:19,180 --> 00:15:21,580
42 hours a week, that's amazing.

368
00:15:21,580 --> 00:15:23,140
And this is what's interesting is we revere

369
00:15:23,140 --> 00:15:25,020
a lot of the Northeastern departments

370
00:15:25,020 --> 00:15:26,820
and they work the schedule.

371
00:15:26,820 --> 00:15:28,780
But I don't hear voices saying,

372
00:15:28,780 --> 00:15:30,820
hey, why is the rest of the country working more?

373
00:15:30,820 --> 00:15:32,460
We need to get them to where we are.

374
00:15:32,460 --> 00:15:34,940
So this is where this fusion is.

375
00:15:34,940 --> 00:15:37,460
So the very first question I'm gonna get to

376
00:15:37,460 --> 00:15:40,300
is where is the data?

377
00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:45,300
My question to you first would be, will you tell me?

378
00:15:46,620 --> 00:15:48,780
Because people ask that when I put this out,

379
00:15:48,780 --> 00:15:51,500
I want you to see white papers, I need to see studies.

380
00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:54,300
The reason why you're saying that is I know damn well

381
00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:57,180
that you can't find it because if it was everywhere,

382
00:15:57,180 --> 00:15:59,620
you wouldn't say, James, where is the data?

383
00:15:59,620 --> 00:16:02,260
The problem is there is so much data.

384
00:16:02,260 --> 00:16:04,660
I did a post the other day, every single exam,

385
00:16:04,660 --> 00:16:07,260
every health issue that we suffer from,

386
00:16:07,260 --> 00:16:10,740
there is a connection between that and sleep deprivation.

387
00:16:10,740 --> 00:16:12,780
I have had guests, which I'm gonna list in a second,

388
00:16:12,780 --> 00:16:14,460
from all branches of the military,

389
00:16:14,460 --> 00:16:17,860
from the sporting community, neuroscience, you name it,

390
00:16:17,860 --> 00:16:20,140
all talking about sleep.

391
00:16:20,140 --> 00:16:22,700
Every one of them agrees irrefutably

392
00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:24,820
that the way that we work our firefighters,

393
00:16:24,820 --> 00:16:27,820
especially the 56-hour weeks, is insane.

394
00:16:27,820 --> 00:16:30,740
And it's completely, it's expected

395
00:16:30,740 --> 00:16:33,140
that we have all these issues that we do.

396
00:16:33,140 --> 00:16:36,700
So the data exists, but you have to look

397
00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:39,620
in the military, you have to look in other areas,

398
00:16:39,620 --> 00:16:41,780
but it's human beings in a uniform,

399
00:16:41,780 --> 00:16:43,660
not sleeping under high stress.

400
00:16:43,660 --> 00:16:45,700
It's pretty much apples to apples.

401
00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:47,420
The other question that I think is more important

402
00:16:47,420 --> 00:16:49,580
is why is there no data?

403
00:16:49,580 --> 00:16:54,220
Why, when the word PFAS was mentioned with cancer,

404
00:16:54,220 --> 00:16:57,100
everyone was up in arms, and I had Rob Belot on the show,

405
00:16:57,100 --> 00:17:00,980
which I'll get, episode 631, and he was the guy

406
00:17:00,980 --> 00:17:02,820
that really blew the door open on PFAS,

407
00:17:02,820 --> 00:17:05,020
the dark water story, he was the lawyer.

408
00:17:05,020 --> 00:17:08,940
And that is absolutely, needs to be part of the conversation.

409
00:17:08,940 --> 00:17:11,460
But there was no loud voices on sleep deprivation,

410
00:17:11,460 --> 00:17:15,140
a known carcinogen labeled by the WHO.

411
00:17:15,140 --> 00:17:17,300
So it's a very kind of pick and choose,

412
00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:19,980
well, I can blame PFAS because I don't have to do anything,

413
00:17:19,980 --> 00:17:21,420
I can just point my finger.

414
00:17:21,420 --> 00:17:24,260
If I talk about sleep deprivation, I as a leader,

415
00:17:24,260 --> 00:17:27,420
have to actually make changes and go to my city and county

416
00:17:27,420 --> 00:17:29,020
and advocate for my people.

417
00:17:29,020 --> 00:17:31,180
I think I'm just gonna blame FI, PFAS.

418
00:17:31,180 --> 00:17:34,500
So the lack of data, I think, really underlines

419
00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:38,980
the lack of effort that should have been put in

420
00:17:38,980 --> 00:17:43,100
by firefighter organizations, unions, et cetera,

421
00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:45,500
because we should have a whole load of data now.

422
00:17:45,500 --> 00:17:47,540
We lose hundreds of firefighters.

423
00:17:47,540 --> 00:17:49,020
This is what's so sad.

424
00:17:49,020 --> 00:17:51,940
If you look at our official statistics,

425
00:17:51,940 --> 00:17:54,980
our numbers are, for example, I think it's just sub 100

426
00:17:54,980 --> 00:17:56,580
for suicides.

427
00:17:56,580 --> 00:17:57,980
I live in the state of Florida.

428
00:17:57,980 --> 00:18:02,980
We have tens this year already, one state,

429
00:18:02,980 --> 00:18:03,820
you know what I mean?

430
00:18:03,820 --> 00:18:05,140
There's another 49.

431
00:18:05,140 --> 00:18:08,660
So you're telling me that we make up 30, 40%

432
00:18:08,660 --> 00:18:10,260
of those stats, there's no way.

433
00:18:10,260 --> 00:18:12,500
So you've got the under-reported statistics,

434
00:18:12,500 --> 00:18:13,820
obviously suicide with the stigma,

435
00:18:13,820 --> 00:18:16,300
a lot of people don't come out and say that was the case,

436
00:18:16,300 --> 00:18:20,060
but our biggest miss, our biggest failure

437
00:18:20,060 --> 00:18:22,260
in the fire service is our retirees.

438
00:18:22,260 --> 00:18:24,940
Most of these diseases, most of these mental health

439
00:18:24,940 --> 00:18:29,220
conditions, most of these addictions really take hold

440
00:18:29,220 --> 00:18:31,980
when we're middle-aged and beyond.

441
00:18:31,980 --> 00:18:35,300
And the VA, even though it's not perfect,

442
00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:39,220
counts military members after they have left.

443
00:18:39,220 --> 00:18:42,140
We have no VA in police and fire and EMS.

444
00:18:42,140 --> 00:18:45,260
When that bay door comes down, we're not counted.

445
00:18:45,260 --> 00:18:47,780
So if I drop dead today, I wouldn't be on any firefighter

446
00:18:47,780 --> 00:18:49,340
statistic whatsoever.

447
00:18:49,340 --> 00:18:51,180
So the reality is that the numbers we're seeing

448
00:18:51,180 --> 00:18:52,460
are probably the 10th of the numbers

449
00:18:52,460 --> 00:18:53,820
that are actually going on there

450
00:18:53,820 --> 00:18:56,820
because our retirees are silently dying of all these things

451
00:18:56,820 --> 00:18:58,660
and no one's counting them.

452
00:18:58,660 --> 00:19:03,060
So I guess this whole early bit is kind of underlining

453
00:19:03,060 --> 00:19:04,580
the importance of this conversation.

454
00:19:04,580 --> 00:19:07,100
And what's beautiful is as you were here,

455
00:19:07,100 --> 00:19:10,140
it benefits everyone and it saves money as well.

456
00:19:10,140 --> 00:19:14,740
So when it comes to the concept of sleep deprivation,

457
00:19:14,740 --> 00:19:19,100
if you look at what that is used for as a tool,

458
00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:21,460
it is used for special forces selection.

459
00:19:21,460 --> 00:19:22,900
And I've got some hilarious stories.

460
00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:26,180
I've had so many special operations members on the show

461
00:19:26,180 --> 00:19:28,900
of hallucinations, seeing pirate ships in the middle

462
00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:31,380
of the fields and all kinds of stuff.

463
00:19:31,380 --> 00:19:34,300
And this is only three, four days with no sleep.

464
00:19:35,460 --> 00:19:38,220
We have the interrogation, whether it's police

465
00:19:38,220 --> 00:19:40,380
or whether it's military, whatever it is,

466
00:19:40,380 --> 00:19:42,620
we use sleep deprivation to break someone down

467
00:19:42,620 --> 00:19:44,180
to interrogate them.

468
00:19:44,180 --> 00:19:46,900
And yet we have our profession that's trying to move

469
00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:51,980
to a 48 hour shift, 48, 96, which is literally

470
00:19:51,980 --> 00:19:54,540
heading towards that side.

471
00:19:54,540 --> 00:19:58,060
Matthew Walker, why we sleep, he quotes that one night

472
00:19:58,060 --> 00:20:00,580
without sleep is like the same cognitively

473
00:20:00,580 --> 00:20:02,860
as the blood alcohol of 0.1.

474
00:20:02,860 --> 00:20:05,740
Now here's what's interesting about that.

475
00:20:05,740 --> 00:20:08,660
Most studies that are done, usually they're advertised

476
00:20:08,660 --> 00:20:11,820
to the local college kids where that lab is,

477
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:13,980
and the kids will take part and they'll do a sleep study

478
00:20:13,980 --> 00:20:15,020
and then they'll go back.

479
00:20:15,020 --> 00:20:17,100
Now these kids, they might be partying a little bit,

480
00:20:17,100 --> 00:20:21,220
but otherwise they are simply sleeping every night

481
00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:22,300
and studying.

482
00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:23,940
So you've got a kid that's gone from probably

483
00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:26,660
a pretty decent night's sleep consistently

484
00:20:26,660 --> 00:20:31,660
to this one test and then back to their normal life.

485
00:20:31,860 --> 00:20:35,140
Now you take a 20 year firefighter,

486
00:20:35,140 --> 00:20:38,620
that's every third day for 20 years.

487
00:20:38,620 --> 00:20:41,220
So there's no way in hell it's even close to 0.1.

488
00:20:41,220 --> 00:20:44,540
If we don't sleep that night, we're way, way past that.

489
00:20:44,540 --> 00:20:49,540
So this is the thing, no one in the sleep science industry

490
00:20:50,420 --> 00:20:52,940
has said anything other than it is insane.

491
00:20:52,940 --> 00:20:55,340
So we have to be up at night.

492
00:20:55,340 --> 00:20:58,740
That I got a kind of a rather aggressive message

493
00:20:58,740 --> 00:20:59,780
on my Facebook the other day.

494
00:20:59,780 --> 00:21:02,100
It's amazing how unprofessional some firefighters can be

495
00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:03,500
when you're trying to help them.

496
00:21:03,500 --> 00:21:05,060
But anyway, I digress.

497
00:21:05,060 --> 00:21:07,380
And he took umbrage to the fact that I was trying

498
00:21:07,380 --> 00:21:09,820
to make 10s and 14s at 24.

499
00:21:09,820 --> 00:21:11,780
That as you know, isn't the case.

500
00:21:11,780 --> 00:21:15,300
I'm trying to get all the 56 plus hour people down to 42

501
00:21:15,300 --> 00:21:18,300
so that we can save their lives and their marriages.

502
00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:20,500
But that being said, if you listen to the sleep people,

503
00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:23,900
just as a quick tangent, you will hear that

504
00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:26,380
when you go from day to night to day to night,

505
00:21:26,380 --> 00:21:28,140
as a lot of these shifts do,

506
00:21:28,140 --> 00:21:30,500
that is horrendous for the circadian rhythm

507
00:21:30,500 --> 00:21:32,260
because it can't reset.

508
00:21:32,260 --> 00:21:34,180
The one good thing about 24

509
00:21:34,180 --> 00:21:36,700
is even though yes, we might be getting up,

510
00:21:36,700 --> 00:21:39,540
we're not, you know, the nighttime isn't our shift.

511
00:21:39,540 --> 00:21:41,500
We're not up the whole time.

512
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:45,540
So we're actually able to regulate better than, you know,

513
00:21:45,540 --> 00:21:46,380
the 10s and 14s.

514
00:21:46,380 --> 00:21:49,100
And a good example of that would be our police officers,

515
00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:53,020
our doctors, our nurses, a lot of them work these shifts.

516
00:21:53,020 --> 00:21:54,340
Are they a pillar of health?

517
00:21:54,340 --> 00:21:57,100
A lot of times those professions are struggling immensely.

518
00:21:57,100 --> 00:21:58,620
So again, is it working?

519
00:21:58,620 --> 00:22:02,020
If it is, and everyone on 10s and 14s is in tip top shape,

520
00:22:02,020 --> 00:22:03,100
then I got nothing else to say.

521
00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:05,300
Let's go to 10s and 14s and call it good.

522
00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:07,740
I would argue, especially in the fire service,

523
00:22:07,740 --> 00:22:09,140
that the 24 is the answer.

524
00:22:09,140 --> 00:22:12,100
We have fire stations, make naps essential,

525
00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:14,860
understand sleep hygiene on our days off.

526
00:22:14,860 --> 00:22:16,900
That is as close to good as we're gonna get.

527
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:18,140
We still have to be awake

528
00:22:18,140 --> 00:22:20,540
when people are sleeping in their beds.

529
00:22:20,540 --> 00:22:24,180
So as far as what does sleep deprivation do,

530
00:22:24,180 --> 00:22:27,700
so the acuity side first, let's go to that.

531
00:22:27,700 --> 00:22:30,420
When you are not sleeping for one, two, three, four days,

532
00:22:30,420 --> 00:22:31,460
whatever it ends up being,

533
00:22:31,460 --> 00:22:33,940
or, you know, disturbed, interrupted sleep,

534
00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:38,180
the cognition, as I said, imagine a blood alcohol of 0.1

535
00:22:38,180 --> 00:22:42,220
or way more worse, there is a thing called microsleep.

536
00:22:42,220 --> 00:22:43,780
And back in the day,

537
00:22:43,780 --> 00:22:45,860
we used to have those line of duty deaths all the time,

538
00:22:45,860 --> 00:22:47,820
the kind of intersection wrecks, and they still happen.

539
00:22:47,820 --> 00:22:50,380
Sometimes with two of our own vehicles.

540
00:22:50,380 --> 00:22:53,580
When you are exhausted, you will take a microsleep.

541
00:22:53,580 --> 00:22:55,820
And what's interesting is that someone just told me the other

542
00:22:55,820 --> 00:22:59,060
day on the crash scenes of a drunk driver,

543
00:22:59,060 --> 00:23:01,860
there'll be a brake pattern, there'll be skid marks.

544
00:23:01,860 --> 00:23:04,500
On the crime scenes, or when they forensically look

545
00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:06,980
at the scene of a driver's fall in the sleep,

546
00:23:06,980 --> 00:23:09,420
a microsleep, there are no brake patterns.

547
00:23:09,420 --> 00:23:11,780
They just plow straight into the person.

548
00:23:11,780 --> 00:23:14,340
And this is what happens to us all the time.

549
00:23:14,340 --> 00:23:16,380
So you've got the microsleep.

550
00:23:16,380 --> 00:23:18,620
So I would argue of our line of duty deaths,

551
00:23:18,620 --> 00:23:20,220
the people that got lost in the fires,

552
00:23:20,220 --> 00:23:22,420
the people that fell off the roof or the aerial,

553
00:23:22,420 --> 00:23:24,140
the intersection accidents,

554
00:23:24,140 --> 00:23:28,460
how many of those were actually partly sleep related?

555
00:23:28,460 --> 00:23:32,700
How many of the fatal wrecks of firefighters going home

556
00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:34,500
were related to falling asleep at the wheel?

557
00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:36,580
Or suicide is the other one.

558
00:23:36,580 --> 00:23:38,700
I think there's probably a lot, you know,

559
00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:42,300
within that that actually would deliver and we'll never know.

560
00:23:42,300 --> 00:23:44,740
So that's the acuity side, you know, trying to do,

561
00:23:44,740 --> 00:23:48,460
like I said, the pediatric drug calculations on, you know,

562
00:23:48,460 --> 00:23:52,100
40 hours into a 48 hour shift, it's dangerous.

563
00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:53,380
It's just that simple.

564
00:23:53,380 --> 00:23:54,820
If we talk about doing it for them

565
00:23:54,820 --> 00:23:56,660
and the highest delivery of service,

566
00:23:56,660 --> 00:24:00,220
you cannot do that on two, three days of no sleep.

567
00:24:00,220 --> 00:24:05,020
That's why with the 2472, you've got that 72 period after 24,

568
00:24:05,020 --> 00:24:07,500
and I'll explain why you wouldn't be mandatory.

569
00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:09,820
And then that gets you close to baseline

570
00:24:09,820 --> 00:24:13,060
so that you're not adding and adding and adding.

571
00:24:13,060 --> 00:24:17,020
Now, equally as scary is the long term,

572
00:24:17,020 --> 00:24:18,780
the chronic effects of sleep deprivation

573
00:24:18,780 --> 00:24:20,980
over and over and over again.

574
00:24:20,980 --> 00:24:22,260
So I talked about cancer.

575
00:24:22,260 --> 00:24:25,700
I mean, you know, the biggest killer outside of suicide,

576
00:24:25,700 --> 00:24:28,900
which in itself is just absolutely heartbreaking.

577
00:24:28,900 --> 00:24:32,660
But yeah, the WHO is a class 2A carcinogen.

578
00:24:33,580 --> 00:24:35,220
So it's a known carcinogen.

579
00:24:35,220 --> 00:24:36,300
People are aware of it.

580
00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:38,900
And again, a lot of times they're studying shift workers,

581
00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:40,980
you know, night, but then go home.

582
00:24:40,980 --> 00:24:43,940
They're not being mandatory to stay all day as well

583
00:24:43,940 --> 00:24:44,940
in these places.

584
00:24:44,940 --> 00:24:47,420
So, you know, every time you look at shift work,

585
00:24:47,420 --> 00:24:49,940
we're the extreme example of that.

586
00:24:49,940 --> 00:24:51,180
So you've got cancer.

587
00:24:51,180 --> 00:24:53,900
So like I said, I'm all for, you know, clean cab

588
00:24:53,900 --> 00:24:57,460
or a version of absolutely, if we discover a PFAS

589
00:24:57,460 --> 00:24:59,700
and Rob's episode was incredible,

590
00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:01,420
we need to get out of our gear if we can.

591
00:25:01,420 --> 00:25:03,940
It's in our AFFF, it's in all these things.

592
00:25:03,940 --> 00:25:06,140
But if we're not talking about the resilience of the body

593
00:25:06,140 --> 00:25:08,420
to fend off cancer,

594
00:25:08,420 --> 00:25:10,540
then we're missing a huge part of the puzzle.

595
00:25:10,540 --> 00:25:11,740
Same with COVID.

596
00:25:11,740 --> 00:25:14,660
A lot of our first responders overworked, under slept,

597
00:25:14,660 --> 00:25:17,820
more vulnerable to COVID and we lost a lot of them.

598
00:25:19,260 --> 00:25:20,740
Suicide.

599
00:25:20,740 --> 00:25:23,460
So again, and I'm gonna give you a load of episodes

600
00:25:23,460 --> 00:25:26,220
that you can watch, but when it comes to suicide,

601
00:25:26,220 --> 00:25:28,780
you will hear an absolute direct correlation

602
00:25:28,780 --> 00:25:31,180
between sleep deprivation and suicide.

603
00:25:31,180 --> 00:25:32,420
And is it the only thing?

604
00:25:32,420 --> 00:25:34,060
And this is the thing with all these conversations,

605
00:25:34,060 --> 00:25:35,300
are they the only thing? No.

606
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:37,100
But they're the thing that no one's talking about.

607
00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:39,220
And they're the biggest of the things.

608
00:25:39,220 --> 00:25:42,860
But when the body sleeps, when the brain sleeps,

609
00:25:42,860 --> 00:25:45,220
it literally takes a kind of version of a bath.

610
00:25:45,220 --> 00:25:47,300
And that's when you process thoughts.

611
00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:48,420
You process the learning.

612
00:25:48,420 --> 00:25:50,820
So you took a rope class that day.

613
00:25:50,820 --> 00:25:53,460
That's why sometimes you can't remember the knots

614
00:25:53,460 --> 00:25:54,900
the next day if you didn't sleep.

615
00:25:54,900 --> 00:25:58,020
We physically need to sleep to process learning,

616
00:25:58,020 --> 00:25:59,180
but also all the thoughts,

617
00:25:59,180 --> 00:26:02,580
discard the things that are kind of superfluous

618
00:26:02,580 --> 00:26:04,060
that you don't need to remember,

619
00:26:04,060 --> 00:26:06,020
but also the traumas to process that,

620
00:26:06,020 --> 00:26:07,020
to make it a memory,

621
00:26:07,020 --> 00:26:09,540
not something that's still in the front of your mind.

622
00:26:09,540 --> 00:26:11,500
So you think about, you saw something horrible

623
00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:14,900
and you didn't sleep, now you've compounded that.

624
00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:17,500
So, and then with the lack of sleep,

625
00:26:17,500 --> 00:26:18,860
you start to get this breakdown.

626
00:26:18,860 --> 00:26:20,020
I wanna just take a tangent

627
00:26:20,020 --> 00:26:23,460
because I think this is important to say a thousand times.

628
00:26:24,300 --> 00:26:25,980
When I first became a firefighter,

629
00:26:25,980 --> 00:26:27,740
it was still that generation of,

630
00:26:27,740 --> 00:26:29,700
suicide is cowardly, it's selfish,

631
00:26:29,700 --> 00:26:32,580
how could they think of your wife, think of your kids?

632
00:26:32,580 --> 00:26:33,900
And I think most of us thought that way.

633
00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:35,580
It wasn't coming out of a place of meanness.

634
00:26:35,580 --> 00:26:39,580
It just didn't make sense to an arguably healthy mind.

635
00:26:39,580 --> 00:26:43,300
What I've realized now is when you have the perfect storm

636
00:26:43,300 --> 00:26:45,460
of unaddressed childhood trauma,

637
00:26:45,460 --> 00:26:47,620
trauma can be an absolute superpower

638
00:26:47,620 --> 00:26:49,300
if you've been able to work through it.

639
00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:51,140
But if it's been buried down,

640
00:26:51,140 --> 00:26:52,900
it becomes a fractured foundation.

641
00:26:54,020 --> 00:26:57,100
What we actually see, the side effects of alcohol,

642
00:26:57,100 --> 00:27:00,060
maybe psychiatric drugs, relationship issues,

643
00:27:00,060 --> 00:27:03,380
financial issues, but then sleep deprivation,

644
00:27:03,380 --> 00:27:05,900
you've got all the pieces of the puzzle

645
00:27:05,900 --> 00:27:08,260
that literally miswires the brain.

646
00:27:08,260 --> 00:27:11,140
And I have, of the thousand guests,

647
00:27:11,140 --> 00:27:12,700
probably, I'm not exaggerating,

648
00:27:12,700 --> 00:27:15,460
400 of them had suicide ideation.

649
00:27:15,460 --> 00:27:17,420
Some of them went through of it and survived,

650
00:27:17,420 --> 00:27:19,940
jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge, shot themselves.

651
00:27:19,940 --> 00:27:21,180
And then a lot of them were right there

652
00:27:21,180 --> 00:27:23,580
and something saved them, a phone call, a dog,

653
00:27:23,580 --> 00:27:25,380
whatever it was.

654
00:27:25,380 --> 00:27:28,740
But here's what's so important to put compassion

655
00:27:28,740 --> 00:27:32,940
in the suicide conversation is pretty much all,

656
00:27:32,940 --> 00:27:35,900
I'm talking like 99% of them said,

657
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:38,140
I felt like I was a burden to my wife.

658
00:27:38,140 --> 00:27:39,900
I felt like I was a burden to my children,

659
00:27:39,900 --> 00:27:42,340
my husband, my friends.

660
00:27:42,340 --> 00:27:44,620
And that miswiring causes that shame

661
00:27:44,620 --> 00:27:46,180
and that guilt to amplify.

662
00:27:46,180 --> 00:27:49,020
And they truly believe that they are the reason

663
00:27:49,020 --> 00:27:51,460
for their loved one's pain.

664
00:27:51,460 --> 00:27:54,060
And so you take someone who's already taken an oath

665
00:27:54,060 --> 00:27:55,980
that they will die for complete strangers.

666
00:27:55,980 --> 00:27:58,020
And now they think that their beloved wife

667
00:27:58,020 --> 00:28:02,380
and their two girls are hurting because of them.

668
00:28:02,380 --> 00:28:05,140
That makes at that point in that broken miswire brain,

669
00:28:05,140 --> 00:28:07,660
and I say broken with compassion, not judgment,

670
00:28:07,660 --> 00:28:10,900
that makes that a selfless and courageous act.

671
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:13,500
It's not right because their brain is lying to them,

672
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:17,060
but their reality is so strong.

673
00:28:17,060 --> 00:28:18,140
And there's no better example

674
00:28:18,140 --> 00:28:20,180
than those two young police officers we lost.

675
00:28:20,180 --> 00:28:22,340
I think it was late last year.

676
00:28:22,340 --> 00:28:23,700
They were both, I think in their 20s,

677
00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:25,940
they had a newborn child.

678
00:28:25,940 --> 00:28:28,020
The husband or boyfriend killed himself.

679
00:28:28,020 --> 00:28:30,020
And I think a week later, the girlfriend did.

680
00:28:30,020 --> 00:28:31,620
And they left behind an infant.

681
00:28:31,620 --> 00:28:33,380
But at that point, they were probably

682
00:28:33,380 --> 00:28:34,940
going through the same thing.

683
00:28:34,940 --> 00:28:38,020
So when you add sleep deprivation,

684
00:28:38,020 --> 00:28:41,900
you add so much more weight to that person

685
00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:43,820
getting to that miswire brain.

686
00:28:43,820 --> 00:28:46,620
So as a, this is a tangent, but I think it needs to be said.

687
00:28:46,620 --> 00:28:48,500
If you are feeling like you are a burden

688
00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:49,500
to the people you love,

689
00:28:49,500 --> 00:28:52,300
or you hear someone else talk about that,

690
00:28:52,300 --> 00:28:54,820
that is the biggest red flag that we should be waving

691
00:28:54,820 --> 00:28:56,620
when it comes to mental health.

692
00:28:56,620 --> 00:28:58,940
So a little tangent from the 2472,

693
00:28:58,940 --> 00:29:01,460
but I think that needs to be said.

694
00:29:01,460 --> 00:29:04,540
Addiction, the real stigma when it comes to mental health

695
00:29:04,540 --> 00:29:05,620
and the fire service.

696
00:29:07,340 --> 00:29:09,020
You know, when it comes to suicide,

697
00:29:09,020 --> 00:29:11,900
we've kind of accepted that in some way,

698
00:29:11,900 --> 00:29:14,180
some conversations.

699
00:29:14,180 --> 00:29:18,020
But addiction to opiates, you know, I've lost,

700
00:29:18,020 --> 00:29:20,620
one firefighter I got hired within my last department,

701
00:29:20,620 --> 00:29:22,540
and then several firefighters locally I know

702
00:29:22,540 --> 00:29:25,420
to opioid overdose, several.

703
00:29:25,420 --> 00:29:27,100
And then you've got obviously the alcoholism,

704
00:29:27,100 --> 00:29:28,740
whether it ends up in a car crash,

705
00:29:28,740 --> 00:29:31,660
whether it's cirrhosis of the liver.

706
00:29:31,660 --> 00:29:33,020
These are all part of the same thing.

707
00:29:33,020 --> 00:29:36,100
There's a void, they need to feel the pain,

708
00:29:36,100 --> 00:29:38,660
insert whatever coping mechanism it is.

709
00:29:38,660 --> 00:29:42,340
But that addiction again, amplified by sleep deprivation.

710
00:29:42,340 --> 00:29:44,340
Obesity, you know, we talk about this,

711
00:29:44,340 --> 00:29:49,340
and I'm very deliberate when I talk about fitness standards

712
00:29:49,500 --> 00:29:50,620
in the fire service.

713
00:29:50,620 --> 00:29:52,580
You know, I don't know if you can see,

714
00:29:52,580 --> 00:29:54,820
but I'm in reasonably good shape.

715
00:29:54,820 --> 00:29:56,860
You know, I still hold my own in the gym.

716
00:29:56,860 --> 00:29:58,780
I did the CPAT not too long ago,

717
00:29:58,780 --> 00:30:00,180
definitely held my own there.

718
00:30:01,140 --> 00:30:04,300
Not a big deal, but I believe that fitness standards

719
00:30:04,300 --> 00:30:06,660
should be where they should be in the fire service.

720
00:30:06,660 --> 00:30:07,500
They should be high.

721
00:30:07,500 --> 00:30:09,660
What we are required to do, in the worst case,

722
00:30:09,660 --> 00:30:11,380
a high rise strip alone is 100 pounds

723
00:30:11,380 --> 00:30:15,020
before you climb 10, 20, 30 stories and then go to work.

724
00:30:15,020 --> 00:30:18,180
That being said though, the way that we work our firefighters

725
00:30:18,180 --> 00:30:20,100
sets them up for failure.

726
00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:22,620
And I have a free class that I do in Ocala.

727
00:30:22,620 --> 00:30:25,540
If you're in Ocala, Mondays at 5pm Eastern,

728
00:30:25,540 --> 00:30:28,420
Iron Legion, I do it for free.

729
00:30:28,420 --> 00:30:31,460
All first responders, military, it's a free class for you.

730
00:30:31,460 --> 00:30:32,660
But I hardly get anyone.

731
00:30:32,660 --> 00:30:33,500
And I don't blame them.

732
00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:34,780
At the moment, our local firefighters

733
00:30:34,780 --> 00:30:36,220
are so overworked and exhausted,

734
00:30:36,220 --> 00:30:38,380
they just wanna go home, and I understand that.

735
00:30:38,380 --> 00:30:40,820
So this is the kind of juxtaposition

736
00:30:40,820 --> 00:30:42,460
is we should have a standard here,

737
00:30:42,460 --> 00:30:44,940
but we can't expect that standard to be met

738
00:30:44,940 --> 00:30:46,940
when our environment is down here.

739
00:30:46,940 --> 00:30:51,740
Now you go to a 2472, over time, not being unfair,

740
00:30:51,740 --> 00:30:53,940
you can demand that your new recruits

741
00:30:53,940 --> 00:30:56,900
and then your staff get back to where they want to be.

742
00:30:56,900 --> 00:30:58,420
No one wants to be down here.

743
00:30:58,420 --> 00:31:00,420
And anyone who says they do is lying.

744
00:31:02,020 --> 00:31:02,860
So this is the thing.

745
00:31:02,860 --> 00:31:06,180
So the obesity thing, sleep deprivation, massive.

746
00:31:06,180 --> 00:31:09,940
Testosterone, the testosterone crisis

747
00:31:09,940 --> 00:31:11,940
is another kind of elephant in the room.

748
00:31:12,780 --> 00:31:15,340
There are so many young firefighters

749
00:31:15,340 --> 00:31:16,700
because I coach at Iron Legion

750
00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:20,260
and some of our original members became firefighters

751
00:31:20,260 --> 00:31:21,580
and I've watched them go,

752
00:31:21,580 --> 00:31:24,140
some of them almost 10 years now in the fire service,

753
00:31:24,140 --> 00:31:25,860
and I've watched the breakdown.

754
00:31:25,860 --> 00:31:27,700
And these are young guys,

755
00:31:27,700 --> 00:31:30,620
like either side of 30 with a testosterone of like 250.

756
00:31:31,460 --> 00:31:35,140
And that is completely reversible with more sleep,

757
00:31:35,140 --> 00:31:37,140
which is why we go back to current parsley.

758
00:31:37,140 --> 00:31:38,820
Now there are exceptions to the rule,

759
00:31:38,820 --> 00:31:41,460
extreme age, TBIs, some of those things

760
00:31:41,460 --> 00:31:44,060
can actually stop the body making it.

761
00:31:44,060 --> 00:31:46,100
But as another side note,

762
00:31:46,100 --> 00:31:49,140
what I'm also seeing as a predatory element

763
00:31:49,140 --> 00:31:51,140
when it comes to exogenous testosterone,

764
00:31:51,140 --> 00:31:53,900
there are men's clinics popping up everywhere.

765
00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:55,500
It used to be that you go to your doctor

766
00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:58,860
and the scale was, I forget now, like 250 to 950,

767
00:31:58,860 --> 00:32:00,420
and you'd be 252.

768
00:32:00,420 --> 00:32:01,980
Oh, you're within normal limits, you're good.

769
00:32:01,980 --> 00:32:04,180
And you're a 28 year old tactical athlete.

770
00:32:04,180 --> 00:32:05,020
No, you're not good.

771
00:32:05,020 --> 00:32:06,980
You should be probably in the 700s.

772
00:32:07,820 --> 00:32:09,060
So you wouldn't get anything.

773
00:32:09,060 --> 00:32:11,340
Now it's swung the other way where,

774
00:32:11,340 --> 00:32:13,540
I've got a good friend of mine that was given TRT,

775
00:32:13,540 --> 00:32:15,420
they never even did a blood test.

776
00:32:15,420 --> 00:32:18,260
So there's a thing called peptides now,

777
00:32:18,260 --> 00:32:20,580
and it's a great company that I use personally.

778
00:32:20,580 --> 00:32:22,500
So every sponsor I have on the show is there

779
00:32:22,500 --> 00:32:24,020
because I have hunted them down

780
00:32:24,020 --> 00:32:25,900
after I've loved their product.

781
00:32:25,900 --> 00:32:27,340
So I take what's called peptides,

782
00:32:27,340 --> 00:32:28,620
and all they do is they just boost

783
00:32:28,620 --> 00:32:31,660
the body's natural testosterone production.

784
00:32:31,660 --> 00:32:34,220
If you take TRT, and they're not warning you

785
00:32:34,220 --> 00:32:36,020
that it can cause male pattern, you know,

786
00:32:36,020 --> 00:32:40,060
balding, sterility, literally atrophy of the testes

787
00:32:40,060 --> 00:32:41,500
because your body thinks it's got so much,

788
00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:42,980
it doesn't need them anymore.

789
00:32:42,980 --> 00:32:45,100
You know, I forget the term,

790
00:32:45,100 --> 00:32:47,500
but you know, what people affectionately call bitch tits.

791
00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:49,420
I mean, that's all the real thing.

792
00:32:49,420 --> 00:32:51,860
With the peptides, you can just boost it up.

793
00:32:51,860 --> 00:32:55,220
So, you know, ideally you have this great shift schedule,

794
00:32:55,220 --> 00:32:56,420
but if you're gonna, you know,

795
00:32:56,420 --> 00:32:58,620
if it's gonna take two, three years to get there,

796
00:32:58,620 --> 00:33:01,300
you're in the process, like hopefully Ocala is,

797
00:33:01,300 --> 00:33:03,820
then this is a great way of kind of boosting everything up

798
00:33:03,820 --> 00:33:04,780
in the meantime.

799
00:33:04,780 --> 00:33:06,700
TRT is not the only thing.

800
00:33:06,700 --> 00:33:09,220
It's the last resort because once you take it,

801
00:33:09,220 --> 00:33:10,700
you're on it for the rest of your life.

802
00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:12,860
And one of my good, good friends took it,

803
00:33:12,860 --> 00:33:16,260
you know, bro science, locker, bodybuilding, testosterone,

804
00:33:16,260 --> 00:33:18,180
when we were in kind of medic school,

805
00:33:18,180 --> 00:33:20,980
and now he's, you know, it destroyed him, you know,

806
00:33:20,980 --> 00:33:24,620
he's doing well, but it had such a negative side effect.

807
00:33:24,620 --> 00:33:26,100
So just wanna put that there.

808
00:33:26,100 --> 00:33:28,580
If you're looking for a excellent company for that,

809
00:33:28,580 --> 00:33:31,140
Transcend, amazing.

810
00:33:31,140 --> 00:33:33,140
But the testosterone thing again,

811
00:33:33,140 --> 00:33:36,500
before you take anything, diet, exercise, time,

812
00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:37,940
and you know, in sunlight,

813
00:33:37,940 --> 00:33:40,700
and then, you know, sleep is the most important thing.

814
00:33:40,700 --> 00:33:43,660
Without sleep, your hormones are all wrecked.

815
00:33:43,660 --> 00:33:46,540
Even the diabetes, you know, if you don't sleep,

816
00:33:46,540 --> 00:33:48,780
your blood sugar, your insulin, excuse me, is off.

817
00:33:48,780 --> 00:33:52,140
So any hormone at all is disrupted if we don't sleep

818
00:33:52,140 --> 00:33:54,460
because we regulate when we sleep.

819
00:33:54,460 --> 00:33:57,340
Injury, I had a Dr. Stuart McGill,

820
00:33:57,340 --> 00:33:59,940
known as the back mechanic, amazing guy,

821
00:33:59,940 --> 00:34:02,340
revered all over the world for, you know,

822
00:34:02,340 --> 00:34:04,140
especially spinal health.

823
00:34:04,140 --> 00:34:06,100
Had him on the show, and again,

824
00:34:06,100 --> 00:34:07,620
explained to him the shifts that we work,

825
00:34:07,620 --> 00:34:09,940
and he said, James, it's not will you get hurt,

826
00:34:09,940 --> 00:34:11,900
it's when you get hurt.

827
00:34:11,900 --> 00:34:14,380
Because any of us that take our job seriously,

828
00:34:14,380 --> 00:34:15,900
that will be out the back pulling hoes,

829
00:34:15,900 --> 00:34:18,380
throwing ladders, and then we do a workout.

830
00:34:18,380 --> 00:34:21,260
If you're not sleeping, the muscles,

831
00:34:21,260 --> 00:34:23,260
the connective tissue, they're not repairing.

832
00:34:23,260 --> 00:34:25,300
So you're breaking it down to build it up,

833
00:34:25,300 --> 00:34:26,900
but you're not getting to build it up,

834
00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:28,100
which is why a lot, they say,

835
00:34:28,100 --> 00:34:30,060
it's always the fit guys that get hurt.

836
00:34:30,060 --> 00:34:31,980
It is, and it's a shame,

837
00:34:31,980 --> 00:34:33,780
because they're doing everything right,

838
00:34:33,780 --> 00:34:35,420
but they're kind of being punished by it, you know,

839
00:34:35,420 --> 00:34:38,980
for it, by not getting the rest and recovery.

840
00:34:38,980 --> 00:34:41,860
So all the muscular scaly or injuries that you have,

841
00:34:41,860 --> 00:34:44,380
and we go, oh, it's because I step off the rig funny.

842
00:34:44,380 --> 00:34:46,900
No, it's probably because you haven't slept for 20 years

843
00:34:46,900 --> 00:34:48,260
and your knee finally gave in.

844
00:34:48,260 --> 00:34:50,420
And I've got meniscus tears on both of my knees,

845
00:34:50,420 --> 00:34:53,540
and I rehabbed a back injury with foundation training,

846
00:34:53,540 --> 00:34:54,740
no surgery, no meds.

847
00:34:54,740 --> 00:34:57,300
Look up foundation training, phenomenal.

848
00:34:57,300 --> 00:35:00,340
And then the other, the last one was two things,

849
00:35:00,340 --> 00:35:01,260
reproductive health.

850
00:35:01,260 --> 00:35:04,860
I think this is the one that really lends weight

851
00:35:04,860 --> 00:35:06,540
to this argument.

852
00:35:06,540 --> 00:35:08,700
People have said to me, oh, I'm gonna lose my overtime,

853
00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:12,140
and other kind of things that are very self-serving.

854
00:35:12,140 --> 00:35:14,380
I had Dr. Sarah Jenke on three times,

855
00:35:14,380 --> 00:35:17,220
the most recent one we did, we just focused on this topic.

856
00:35:17,220 --> 00:35:21,460
And this is going back to where's the data.

857
00:35:21,460 --> 00:35:23,820
She, I interviewed her five years ago,

858
00:35:23,820 --> 00:35:25,260
and when I talked about sleep deprivation,

859
00:35:25,260 --> 00:35:28,420
and she talked about this, so she knows I'm saying this,

860
00:35:28,420 --> 00:35:30,660
I remember her looking confused and almost like

861
00:35:30,660 --> 00:35:33,460
a kind of dismissive, well, that's not anything.

862
00:35:33,460 --> 00:35:34,980
And then that was five years ago.

863
00:35:34,980 --> 00:35:37,340
This last one, she said, when I actually dove

864
00:35:37,340 --> 00:35:41,140
into the sleep deprivation, you know, the medicine,

865
00:35:41,140 --> 00:35:43,380
the science behind it, she was blown away

866
00:35:43,380 --> 00:35:45,380
how it was behind everything.

867
00:35:45,380 --> 00:35:48,220
But where she has done some incredible research

868
00:35:48,220 --> 00:35:51,140
is the impact of what we do, and the sleep deprivation

869
00:35:51,140 --> 00:35:54,860
shift work on our children, on our reproductive health.

870
00:35:54,860 --> 00:35:58,220
And I know there's a huge amount of first responder families

871
00:35:58,220 --> 00:36:00,860
that struggle to get pregnant, or they lose a child

872
00:36:00,860 --> 00:36:03,340
X amount of time through the pregnancy.

873
00:36:03,340 --> 00:36:06,100
There seems to be a higher level of autism,

874
00:36:06,100 --> 00:36:07,100
and Down syndrome.

875
00:36:07,100 --> 00:36:10,780
So imagine this, even though you're concerned

876
00:36:10,780 --> 00:36:14,020
about your last five and your drop and your pension check,

877
00:36:14,020 --> 00:36:16,180
think about the impact that this is gonna have

878
00:36:16,180 --> 00:36:17,620
on your children.

879
00:36:17,620 --> 00:36:20,700
You know, that in itself should be enough to really,

880
00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:22,860
you know, pick up a torch and wanna be part of this fight.

881
00:36:22,860 --> 00:36:24,900
Even if, you know, you've had kids and then,

882
00:36:24,900 --> 00:36:28,780
you know, what's happened, the fact that our actions

883
00:36:28,780 --> 00:36:31,420
can affect our children, you know, the pediatric cancers

884
00:36:31,420 --> 00:36:33,100
that we see in all these other heartbreaking,

885
00:36:33,100 --> 00:36:36,260
heartbreaking things, if we can stop one parent

886
00:36:36,260 --> 00:36:39,500
from going through that one child by making this change,

887
00:36:39,500 --> 00:36:40,900
then this fight is worth it.

888
00:36:41,940 --> 00:36:44,500
And then lastly, another one that I'm seeing

889
00:36:44,500 --> 00:36:47,860
an insane amount recently is strokes.

890
00:36:47,860 --> 00:36:49,980
I mean, I've got multiple firefighter friends

891
00:36:49,980 --> 00:36:50,860
that had strokes.

892
00:36:50,860 --> 00:36:53,220
And again, if you look at the research,

893
00:36:53,220 --> 00:36:55,100
see deprivations and strokes,

894
00:36:55,100 --> 00:36:56,460
there's an absolute correlation.

895
00:36:56,460 --> 00:36:59,100
So when people say, show me the research,

896
00:36:59,100 --> 00:37:03,620
don't type in 2472, because I'll be really freaking blunt

897
00:37:03,620 --> 00:37:04,780
right now.

898
00:37:04,780 --> 00:37:08,100
If you need a study to show you that a 42 hour workweek

899
00:37:08,100 --> 00:37:10,580
is healthier than a 56 hour workweek,

900
00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:13,340
should you be raring a badge?

901
00:37:13,340 --> 00:37:14,180
You know what I mean?

902
00:37:14,180 --> 00:37:15,380
You don't need a study for that.

903
00:37:15,380 --> 00:37:17,180
Do you need a study to find out if you step in front

904
00:37:17,180 --> 00:37:19,860
of a London bus, it's gonna hurt?

905
00:37:19,860 --> 00:37:21,620
No, it's common sense.

906
00:37:21,620 --> 00:37:23,220
So we don't need studies for that,

907
00:37:23,220 --> 00:37:25,540
but we do need to learn about the sleep deprivation.

908
00:37:25,540 --> 00:37:28,060
So if you put in any of these things that I've talked about

909
00:37:28,060 --> 00:37:29,940
with the words shift work,

910
00:37:29,940 --> 00:37:31,540
you will see all these studies come up.

911
00:37:31,540 --> 00:37:32,780
So there's your data.

912
00:37:34,380 --> 00:37:35,620
All right.

913
00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:38,300
I'm just gonna reel off a few of the resources for you

914
00:37:38,300 --> 00:37:39,620
on all that stuff I've talked about,

915
00:37:39,620 --> 00:37:41,380
and then we're gonna get to the recruitment crisis

916
00:37:41,380 --> 00:37:44,220
and then how do we afford to make this change.

917
00:37:44,220 --> 00:37:49,220
So Dr. Sarah Jenke, The Science, The Data, episode 928.

918
00:37:50,300 --> 00:37:51,940
Professor Russell Foster,

919
00:37:53,020 --> 00:37:54,540
when you hear Andrew Huberman

920
00:37:54,540 --> 00:37:55,780
and some of these other people talking about,

921
00:37:55,780 --> 00:37:58,820
when you wake up, go outside, get daylight on your eyes,

922
00:37:59,740 --> 00:38:01,860
I've never heard Russell credited for this sadly,

923
00:38:01,860 --> 00:38:05,060
but he was the man who discovered the KronoSat,

924
00:38:05,060 --> 00:38:06,700
Krono receptor in the eye.

925
00:38:06,700 --> 00:38:08,940
So before it was rods and cones, that's all we were taught.

926
00:38:08,940 --> 00:38:12,220
And the ophthalmology, the eye people,

927
00:38:12,220 --> 00:38:14,540
I can't say that word properly, ridiculed him,

928
00:38:14,540 --> 00:38:16,820
laughed him out saying, there's just rods and cones,

929
00:38:16,820 --> 00:38:18,700
what are you talking about?

930
00:38:18,700 --> 00:38:19,980
And then he proved it.

931
00:38:19,980 --> 00:38:22,740
And what's interesting is even with some of our veterans

932
00:38:22,740 --> 00:38:25,620
that lost their sight through IEDs and things,

933
00:38:25,620 --> 00:38:28,100
if their eye was still intact,

934
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:31,020
they actually were still able to tell day and night.

935
00:38:31,020 --> 00:38:32,700
If the eye was completely removed

936
00:38:32,700 --> 00:38:34,580
or the retina was completely damaged,

937
00:38:34,580 --> 00:38:36,220
then as he talked about,

938
00:38:36,220 --> 00:38:38,380
you'd have soldiers that say that their neighbors hated them

939
00:38:38,380 --> 00:38:39,620
because they would be mowing the grass

940
00:38:39,620 --> 00:38:40,460
at three in the morning.

941
00:38:40,460 --> 00:38:42,340
They didn't realize what time it was.

942
00:38:42,340 --> 00:38:44,020
So Russell is like the,

943
00:38:44,020 --> 00:38:46,700
and one of the real grandfathers when it comes to that

944
00:38:46,700 --> 00:38:47,860
and sleep as well.

945
00:38:47,860 --> 00:38:52,300
So he is episode 647, amazing man.

946
00:38:52,300 --> 00:38:54,860
Two of my military, sorry, three of my military guests,

947
00:38:54,860 --> 00:38:56,340
actually more than that, they're all.

948
00:38:56,340 --> 00:39:01,340
Okay, so Alison Breger, army sleep specialist, episode 117.

949
00:39:01,460 --> 00:39:04,100
Rachel Markwald, episode 196.

950
00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:06,060
She's the Navy's sleep specialist.

951
00:39:06,060 --> 00:39:08,860
Those two ladies are coming on together in a few weeks

952
00:39:08,860 --> 00:39:11,980
and we're gonna hit this again with the shifts.

953
00:39:11,980 --> 00:39:13,780
Dr. Kirk Parsley has been multiple times,

954
00:39:13,780 --> 00:39:15,420
but episode six was the first one.

955
00:39:15,420 --> 00:39:17,180
Literally one of the, you know,

956
00:39:17,180 --> 00:39:19,220
the first person I heard about sleep deprivation

957
00:39:19,220 --> 00:39:21,820
is so worth listening to.

958
00:39:21,820 --> 00:39:24,460
Dr. John Cordell, Navy captain.

959
00:39:24,460 --> 00:39:26,380
He was beating the drum about sleep.

960
00:39:26,380 --> 00:39:27,300
No one was listening.

961
00:39:27,300 --> 00:39:31,060
They had that horrendous fatal battleship crash

962
00:39:31,060 --> 00:39:33,300
where multiple sailors died.

963
00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:36,460
All of a sudden the Navy started paying attention.

964
00:39:36,460 --> 00:39:39,780
I don't know why we have to wait for people to die.

965
00:39:39,780 --> 00:39:43,420
I was actually, this takes me to a good tangent.

966
00:39:43,420 --> 00:39:44,900
I was looking back, so I was thinking,

967
00:39:44,900 --> 00:39:46,900
okay, what's a good analogy for this?

968
00:39:46,900 --> 00:39:49,780
Being British, you know, back in the Victorian times,

969
00:39:49,780 --> 00:39:51,700
the industrial revolution,

970
00:39:51,700 --> 00:39:53,460
we had children cleaning chimneys.

971
00:39:53,460 --> 00:39:56,540
We had children working in factories.

972
00:39:56,540 --> 00:39:57,580
And I did some Googling.

973
00:39:57,580 --> 00:39:59,660
I'm like, well, you know, let me see what numbers are

974
00:39:59,660 --> 00:40:01,300
because back then there were no white papers

975
00:40:01,300 --> 00:40:02,940
or peer reviewed studies, you know.

976
00:40:02,940 --> 00:40:04,660
So let's just see what was actually happening

977
00:40:04,660 --> 00:40:07,980
that people didn't need that kind of data to make a change.

978
00:40:07,980 --> 00:40:12,980
And 30,000 children died each year

979
00:40:13,180 --> 00:40:15,460
and a half a million were maimed.

980
00:40:15,460 --> 00:40:16,540
So what happened?

981
00:40:16,540 --> 00:40:19,020
Someone said, people are dying.

982
00:40:19,020 --> 00:40:20,660
We need to change things.

983
00:40:20,660 --> 00:40:22,340
They didn't ask for studies.

984
00:40:22,340 --> 00:40:24,540
They didn't, you know, say, show me the data.

985
00:40:24,540 --> 00:40:26,420
They just realized that something was happening

986
00:40:26,420 --> 00:40:28,780
where families were devastated

987
00:40:28,780 --> 00:40:30,740
because they were losing children.

988
00:40:30,740 --> 00:40:32,300
And it's no different in the fire service.

989
00:40:32,300 --> 00:40:34,660
We are losing so many people

990
00:40:34,660 --> 00:40:36,540
and I'm getting, oh, but show me the data.

991
00:40:36,540 --> 00:40:37,900
That is your data.

992
00:40:37,900 --> 00:40:41,420
And in 1833, the Factory Act was passed

993
00:40:41,420 --> 00:40:45,020
where children weren't in chimneys and factories anymore.

994
00:40:45,020 --> 00:40:47,180
It's common sense now looking back at it,

995
00:40:47,180 --> 00:40:49,900
as will the kids that work and become firefighters

996
00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:51,420
20 years from now, they'll look back and go,

997
00:40:51,420 --> 00:40:53,340
I can't believe they used to do that.

998
00:40:53,340 --> 00:40:55,620
So again, when it comes to, you know,

999
00:40:55,620 --> 00:40:57,340
do you wait for everything to collapse

1000
00:40:57,340 --> 00:40:58,900
or do you be a thought leader

1001
00:40:58,900 --> 00:41:02,420
and progressively and proactively fix your profession?

1002
00:41:02,420 --> 00:41:06,580
So that's John Caudle, Lieutenant Colonel Janelle McCauley.

1003
00:41:06,580 --> 00:41:08,860
She's Air Force, same thing,

1004
00:41:08,860 --> 00:41:11,700
human performance, sleep, episode 175.

1005
00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:12,780
And these are all early ones.

1006
00:41:12,780 --> 00:41:13,940
This is how long I've been talking about.

1007
00:41:13,940 --> 00:41:16,060
I've been talking about 2472 for eight years

1008
00:41:16,060 --> 00:41:17,500
on this podcast.

1009
00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:19,420
And then Dr. Stuart McGill,

1010
00:41:19,420 --> 00:41:22,260
the back mechanic, was episode 95.

1011
00:41:22,260 --> 00:41:23,860
All right, so now let's get to

1012
00:41:23,860 --> 00:41:25,260
how do we actually make this happen.

1013
00:41:25,260 --> 00:41:28,260
So firstly, how are we finding the people?

1014
00:41:28,260 --> 00:41:29,460
There's a recruitment crisis.

1015
00:41:29,460 --> 00:41:31,660
We can't even hire people now.

1016
00:41:31,660 --> 00:41:34,460
I literally had an interesting conversation

1017
00:41:34,460 --> 00:41:39,300
with one of the Ocala firefighters.

1018
00:41:39,300 --> 00:41:40,420
I just bumped into the store today

1019
00:41:40,420 --> 00:41:42,220
and I was telling him that one of his peers,

1020
00:41:42,220 --> 00:41:43,860
one of the other firefighters

1021
00:41:43,860 --> 00:41:46,300
had messaged me on social media.

1022
00:41:46,300 --> 00:41:49,260
Gainesville Fire, for any of you that have been following,

1023
00:41:49,260 --> 00:41:52,180
Gainesville Fire Rescue just went to a 2472,

1024
00:41:52,180 --> 00:41:54,020
literally, I think it was this Monday.

1025
00:41:54,020 --> 00:41:56,020
Yeah, this last Monday.

1026
00:41:56,020 --> 00:41:59,820
They, from what I understand, had 300 applicants

1027
00:41:59,820 --> 00:42:01,260
for their fire department for,

1028
00:42:01,260 --> 00:42:03,380
I think it's only a few spots.

1029
00:42:03,380 --> 00:42:05,300
City of Ocala, from what I understand,

1030
00:42:05,300 --> 00:42:09,380
secondhand information, had five applicants for their spots.

1031
00:42:09,380 --> 00:42:13,100
So this is the problem is right now,

1032
00:42:13,100 --> 00:42:15,300
we have a group of very intelligent,

1033
00:42:15,300 --> 00:42:17,540
young potential recruits.

1034
00:42:17,540 --> 00:42:19,780
And I have to give a huge shout out.

1035
00:42:19,780 --> 00:42:22,940
Where I live, Chris Hickman started a thing

1036
00:42:22,940 --> 00:42:24,340
called the mentorship program.

1037
00:42:24,340 --> 00:42:26,180
And it's a combined thing with City of Ocala

1038
00:42:26,180 --> 00:42:27,500
and Marion County.

1039
00:42:27,500 --> 00:42:29,660
There's a lot of other people that help out with that.

1040
00:42:29,660 --> 00:42:33,180
And they are doing an amazing job of training young people,

1041
00:42:33,180 --> 00:42:34,940
removing barriers to entry,

1042
00:42:34,940 --> 00:42:39,900
to get the best of all the different diverse backgrounds

1043
00:42:39,900 --> 00:42:43,060
and get them and challenge them to be incredible recruits.

1044
00:42:43,060 --> 00:42:45,740
And there's scholarships for fire academies

1045
00:42:45,740 --> 00:42:49,620
and then loads of departments waiting to hire at the end.

1046
00:42:49,620 --> 00:42:51,500
So that was another tangent.

1047
00:42:51,500 --> 00:42:52,980
But if you wanna fix,

1048
00:42:52,980 --> 00:42:54,980
one of the things to fix recruitment

1049
00:42:54,980 --> 00:42:56,540
and certainly diversity,

1050
00:42:56,540 --> 00:42:59,140
because there are groups that just can't afford.

1051
00:42:59,140 --> 00:43:02,580
Literally my mom, my mummy paid for my fire academy

1052
00:43:02,580 --> 00:43:04,660
and I wasn't a young man.

1053
00:43:04,660 --> 00:43:07,940
So I can't imagine being in a very financially struggling

1054
00:43:07,940 --> 00:43:09,300
family wanting to be a firefighter

1055
00:43:09,300 --> 00:43:12,820
and I don't have three, four, $5,000 to go to fire academy.

1056
00:43:12,820 --> 00:43:14,860
So the barrier entry is a big thing.

1057
00:43:14,860 --> 00:43:16,780
So why is there a recruitment crisis?

1058
00:43:16,780 --> 00:43:19,500
20 years ago, when I was testing,

1059
00:43:20,420 --> 00:43:21,820
I went down to South Florida

1060
00:43:21,820 --> 00:43:23,980
and I worked for Hialeah and bless them, they picked me up,

1061
00:43:23,980 --> 00:43:25,700
but it was extremely competitive.

1062
00:43:25,700 --> 00:43:27,820
Then a year later, I tested in California.

1063
00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:31,700
I sat at the actual written

1064
00:43:31,700 --> 00:43:34,700
with a thousand candidates going for 30 jobs.

1065
00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:37,260
And these were, they made it through all the other,

1066
00:43:37,260 --> 00:43:38,740
the filtering process

1067
00:43:38,740 --> 00:43:42,220
and they were firefighter EMTs and or paramedics.

1068
00:43:42,220 --> 00:43:44,500
Most of them had ambulance operator experience.

1069
00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:46,260
Most of them have wildland experience.

1070
00:43:46,260 --> 00:43:48,420
A lot of them went through Explorer programs.

1071
00:43:48,420 --> 00:43:51,220
So I'm not just competing against Joe Blow in the street.

1072
00:43:51,220 --> 00:43:53,980
These are extremely competitive people

1073
00:43:53,980 --> 00:43:57,700
that I'm trying to get a job, one of those spots.

1074
00:43:58,580 --> 00:44:02,380
Fast forward now, five people testing for Ocala.

1075
00:44:02,380 --> 00:44:05,500
Again, if the way we're doing it is working,

1076
00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:08,340
I have nothing to say, but it's not.

1077
00:44:08,340 --> 00:44:11,500
So one of the big reasons why we have a recruitment crisis

1078
00:44:11,500 --> 00:44:13,140
and I hear people go, oh, it's these gen Zs,

1079
00:44:13,140 --> 00:44:16,260
they don't wanna work or it's the obesity epidemic,

1080
00:44:16,260 --> 00:44:20,580
which of course is definitely hurt in our pool of candidates.

1081
00:44:20,580 --> 00:44:23,780
But the biggest thing is when I went to become a firefighter

1082
00:44:23,780 --> 00:44:27,420
and I look in, I type in, what's it like to be a firefighter?

1083
00:44:27,420 --> 00:44:28,820
It's like, oh, James, it's amazing.

1084
00:44:28,820 --> 00:44:30,940
You get a mustache, you get leather helmet,

1085
00:44:30,940 --> 00:44:34,940
ladder 49, cats in trees, fires, Dalmatians.

1086
00:44:34,940 --> 00:44:37,860
Now, when you Google, what's it like to be a firefighter,

1087
00:44:37,860 --> 00:44:38,820
you get all those things,

1088
00:44:38,820 --> 00:44:39,900
cause the job hasn't changed.

1089
00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:40,740
And this is what's crazy.

1090
00:44:40,740 --> 00:44:42,580
The job is the same.

1091
00:44:42,580 --> 00:44:45,560
It's the working conditions that are devolved.

1092
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,380
But so if I Google it, I also see firefighter cancer,

1093
00:44:48,380 --> 00:44:49,540
firefighter suicide.

1094
00:44:49,540 --> 00:44:53,100
I mean, locally here, if you put firefighter in Marion County,

1095
00:44:53,100 --> 00:44:56,220
the spate of suicides this area has had recently

1096
00:44:56,220 --> 00:44:58,380
is one of the first things that you'll see.

1097
00:44:58,380 --> 00:45:01,780
The divorces, I mean, all these things that we talked about.

1098
00:45:01,780 --> 00:45:04,540
So a young candidate now is like, okay, I've got UPS,

1099
00:45:04,540 --> 00:45:07,220
I've got whatever the thing, but I wanna serve.

1100
00:45:07,220 --> 00:45:09,340
But this is a 56 hour work week.

1101
00:45:09,340 --> 00:45:10,820
I've done my research about,

1102
00:45:10,820 --> 00:45:13,140
cause I mean, Don Campbell was on,

1103
00:45:13,140 --> 00:45:14,380
he was saying like he had a recruit

1104
00:45:14,380 --> 00:45:16,260
who had all the departments laid out

1105
00:45:16,260 --> 00:45:17,260
and stats and everything.

1106
00:45:17,260 --> 00:45:18,780
It's like, well, these guys get mandatory,

1107
00:45:18,780 --> 00:45:20,260
it's an eight hour week.

1108
00:45:20,260 --> 00:45:22,740
So if you were a young recruit looking at this,

1109
00:45:22,740 --> 00:45:24,940
how excited would you be?

1110
00:45:24,940 --> 00:45:26,380
We signed on to do the job.

1111
00:45:26,380 --> 00:45:29,740
We didn't sign on at 7.30 to be told you can't go home

1112
00:45:29,740 --> 00:45:31,660
week after week after week.

1113
00:45:31,660 --> 00:45:34,780
That's not the job, that's mismanagement.

1114
00:45:34,780 --> 00:45:36,820
So the reason we have a recruitment crisis

1115
00:45:36,820 --> 00:45:39,140
is we haven't fixed the working conditions.

1116
00:45:39,140 --> 00:45:40,780
It's that simple.

1117
00:45:40,780 --> 00:45:43,300
The beautiful thing is we have an opportunity

1118
00:45:43,300 --> 00:45:46,520
to turn the ship around, to make an absolute difference.

1119
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,140
Because as I tell people like genuinely,

1120
00:45:49,140 --> 00:45:51,180
this isn't being dramatic.

1121
00:45:51,180 --> 00:45:54,380
At this point, you can either be the union leader,

1122
00:45:54,380 --> 00:45:57,540
chief city administrator, whatever,

1123
00:45:57,540 --> 00:46:01,900
that proactively and progressively save the city

1124
00:46:01,900 --> 00:46:04,340
a bunch of money, improve the morale

1125
00:46:04,340 --> 00:46:05,600
and health of the fire service,

1126
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,780
improve the delivery of service,

1127
00:46:07,780 --> 00:46:10,300
or you can be the person that was at the helm

1128
00:46:10,300 --> 00:46:12,060
when your fire department sank.

1129
00:46:12,060 --> 00:46:14,380
Because if for example, I'm not picking on O'Callaghan,

1130
00:46:14,380 --> 00:46:15,780
I just know the stats.

1131
00:46:15,780 --> 00:46:19,540
If they only have five, then that's diminishing,

1132
00:46:19,540 --> 00:46:20,380
that's a line.

1133
00:46:20,380 --> 00:46:22,660
And then this is the other important thing.

1134
00:46:22,660 --> 00:46:25,460
Some people have said to me, oh, we're still able to hire.

1135
00:46:26,580 --> 00:46:28,820
What kind of person are you hiring?

1136
00:46:28,820 --> 00:46:33,820
Say about 1,000 people in Anaheim and there was 30 spots,

1137
00:46:34,180 --> 00:46:39,100
you're talking about whatever, 3% or yeah, 3%.

1138
00:46:39,100 --> 00:46:40,540
Top 3% is what they took.

1139
00:46:41,580 --> 00:46:44,500
So obviously it's not gonna be that acute in some places,

1140
00:46:44,500 --> 00:46:49,060
but arguably you wanna be taking the top 25, 30% of a list

1141
00:46:49,060 --> 00:46:50,100
in an ideal world.

1142
00:46:50,100 --> 00:46:52,060
And if you're below that as a candidate, you go, okay,

1143
00:46:52,060 --> 00:46:53,380
well, I need to get my CPAT higher,

1144
00:46:53,380 --> 00:46:54,940
I need to study more for the test

1145
00:46:54,940 --> 00:46:56,900
and be a better candidate next time.

1146
00:46:56,900 --> 00:46:59,100
But if you're taking everyone,

1147
00:46:59,100 --> 00:47:01,700
that means you're taking those rock stars at the top

1148
00:47:01,700 --> 00:47:04,540
and you're taking the opposite side at the bottom,

1149
00:47:04,540 --> 00:47:06,760
they're all coming and now they're promoting.

1150
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:08,380
Now they're battalion chiefs.

1151
00:47:08,380 --> 00:47:09,220
You know what I mean?

1152
00:47:09,220 --> 00:47:10,900
Next thing you end up with some horrific incident

1153
00:47:10,900 --> 00:47:13,380
that ends up on national news, like how do we get here?

1154
00:47:13,380 --> 00:47:15,980
When you talk about money savings, get a lawsuit.

1155
00:47:15,980 --> 00:47:18,500
So don't look at the numbers that,

1156
00:47:18,500 --> 00:47:20,540
oh, we can still fill the spots

1157
00:47:20,540 --> 00:47:22,180
when you're taking almost everyone.

1158
00:47:22,180 --> 00:47:24,900
That's a very, very dangerous game to play as well.

1159
00:47:27,860 --> 00:47:29,820
But if you look at all the things, like I said,

1160
00:47:29,820 --> 00:47:33,140
the burnout, so we've got obviously a recruitment crisis,

1161
00:47:33,140 --> 00:47:34,700
but you also got a retention crisis.

1162
00:47:34,700 --> 00:47:36,600
I think law enforcement is worse,

1163
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,040
but how many people are we losing

1164
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,060
that we could have stayed an extra few years?

1165
00:47:41,060 --> 00:47:43,180
If their health is good and they wanted to,

1166
00:47:43,180 --> 00:47:47,500
that knowledge that we're losing out the back door,

1167
00:47:47,500 --> 00:47:49,500
they're leaving prematurely.

1168
00:47:49,500 --> 00:47:52,700
And then the big thing is, this young generation,

1169
00:47:52,700 --> 00:47:56,420
the Gen Z, they value time with their family.

1170
00:47:56,420 --> 00:47:58,340
They're not carpenters and mechanics

1171
00:47:58,340 --> 00:48:00,760
and some of these things that I wasn't, I was a farm boy,

1172
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,020
but the generation before me, they were builders.

1173
00:48:04,020 --> 00:48:06,400
They were carpenters, they were trades people.

1174
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,660
Well, now these kids are really great with computers

1175
00:48:09,660 --> 00:48:11,300
and all kinds of other things,

1176
00:48:11,300 --> 00:48:14,720
but they grew up in this world of work-life balance

1177
00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:16,640
and meditation and breath work and ice baths,

1178
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,700
and they understand health.

1179
00:48:18,700 --> 00:48:21,140
So when they look at the way we do it now,

1180
00:48:21,140 --> 00:48:23,440
they're like, that doesn't seem very healthy.

1181
00:48:24,580 --> 00:48:26,160
All right, so let's get to the money.

1182
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:27,420
Hopefully I'm not waffling too much,

1183
00:48:27,420 --> 00:48:29,940
but I'm trying to make these points because for me,

1184
00:48:29,940 --> 00:48:32,780
I look at the Behind the Shield podcast as a law,

1185
00:48:32,780 --> 00:48:35,020
a case, a court case.

1186
00:48:35,020 --> 00:48:36,940
Well, I have all these experts and people are like,

1187
00:48:36,940 --> 00:48:37,940
who are you, are you an expert?

1188
00:48:37,940 --> 00:48:40,100
And I've always said, no, I'm not.

1189
00:48:40,100 --> 00:48:42,460
Even my book, which I'll show at the end,

1190
00:48:42,460 --> 00:48:43,620
it's not written as an expert,

1191
00:48:43,620 --> 00:48:46,380
it's not written as some incredible biography,

1192
00:48:46,380 --> 00:48:48,660
it's literally written as a normal dude,

1193
00:48:48,660 --> 00:48:50,060
and it references all the people

1194
00:48:50,060 --> 00:48:52,100
that have the answers to our problems.

1195
00:48:52,100 --> 00:48:53,980
So where is the money?

1196
00:48:53,980 --> 00:48:56,340
So this is, I think, the one that most people

1197
00:48:56,340 --> 00:48:58,380
are really interested in.

1198
00:48:59,980 --> 00:49:02,620
So I did, I was part of a thing,

1199
00:49:02,620 --> 00:49:04,140
and I'll show you this here,

1200
00:49:04,140 --> 00:49:05,940
BioFight Resilience Blue Sky.

1201
00:49:05,940 --> 00:49:08,380
Here in Marion County,

1202
00:49:08,380 --> 00:49:11,700
we lost a total of four firefighters,

1203
00:49:11,700 --> 00:49:13,580
two within a few weeks of each other,

1204
00:49:13,580 --> 00:49:16,540
one of whom I taught just, I don't think it was days,

1205
00:49:16,540 --> 00:49:18,180
certainly weeks before,

1206
00:49:18,180 --> 00:49:22,020
when I did some tactical athlete training at Marion County.

1207
00:49:22,020 --> 00:49:25,660
And a local business person said, what are we doing here?

1208
00:49:25,660 --> 00:49:29,140
And there was a great research organization called IHMC,

1209
00:49:29,140 --> 00:49:31,900
and they are satellite offices in Ocala.

1210
00:49:31,900 --> 00:49:33,780
Their main one is in Pensacola.

1211
00:49:33,780 --> 00:49:37,180
And they work with the Navy SEALs, with NASA.

1212
00:49:37,180 --> 00:49:38,900
They live with NASA, with DARPA.

1213
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:41,660
And DARPA is, you think, tier one, delta,

1214
00:49:41,660 --> 00:49:45,220
just come up with any idea and prove that it won't work.

1215
00:49:45,220 --> 00:49:47,580
That's where you get these crazy innovations

1216
00:49:47,580 --> 00:49:50,180
from satellites and all that kind of thing.

1217
00:49:50,180 --> 00:49:51,020
That's who they work with.

1218
00:49:51,020 --> 00:49:53,380
Well, they have a thing called Blue Sky,

1219
00:49:53,380 --> 00:49:56,180
and this businessman in the hospital district

1220
00:49:56,180 --> 00:49:58,860
funded a study, and we all went to,

1221
00:49:58,860 --> 00:50:01,460
and I was very fortunate enough to be included

1222
00:50:01,460 --> 00:50:02,860
as one of the voices.

1223
00:50:03,940 --> 00:50:05,900
And we went for two days,

1224
00:50:05,900 --> 00:50:07,580
and sat in a room and brainstormed,

1225
00:50:07,580 --> 00:50:09,540
and everyone kind of gave their thoughts,

1226
00:50:09,540 --> 00:50:11,420
and there were psychologists and neuroscientists,

1227
00:50:11,420 --> 00:50:13,540
and all kinds of people there.

1228
00:50:15,140 --> 00:50:17,540
And what was interesting is Marion's

1229
00:50:17,540 --> 00:50:19,540
union president was there,

1230
00:50:19,540 --> 00:50:23,020
and he said, for every recruit they hire,

1231
00:50:23,020 --> 00:50:26,100
it costs them $18,000.

1232
00:50:26,100 --> 00:50:28,460
So every time that you hire someone, you train them,

1233
00:50:28,460 --> 00:50:31,260
and then they walk out the door a year or two years later,

1234
00:50:31,260 --> 00:50:34,300
that's 18, 20 grand that you just lost.

1235
00:50:34,300 --> 00:50:37,940
So right there, and it's the same with that retiree,

1236
00:50:37,940 --> 00:50:40,340
that 10, 15, 20 year guy or girl

1237
00:50:40,340 --> 00:50:43,100
that may have stayed another five or 10,

1238
00:50:43,100 --> 00:50:45,380
they walk out the door, that's another 20 grand

1239
00:50:45,380 --> 00:50:48,060
that you've got to go through and replace that person with.

1240
00:50:48,060 --> 00:50:51,900
So that in itself, if you're bleeding people,

1241
00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:53,380
look at those costs.

1242
00:50:53,380 --> 00:50:55,700
The biggest one that, I was blown away

1243
00:50:55,700 --> 00:50:56,540
how many people were like,

1244
00:50:56,540 --> 00:50:59,260
oh, that alone pretty much covered what we needed,

1245
00:50:59,260 --> 00:51:00,980
was the overtime costs.

1246
00:51:00,980 --> 00:51:03,420
If you are currently understaffed,

1247
00:51:03,420 --> 00:51:05,260
and you have a vacancy,

1248
00:51:05,260 --> 00:51:07,540
that means that you are paying someone time and a half

1249
00:51:07,540 --> 00:51:09,060
to fill that vacancy.

1250
00:51:09,060 --> 00:51:11,460
And so, I think Marion's, I forget what it was,

1251
00:51:11,460 --> 00:51:12,460
I don't wanna misquote them now,

1252
00:51:12,460 --> 00:51:16,300
but it was an insane amount of overtime.

1253
00:51:16,300 --> 00:51:17,580
And some departments are spoken to,

1254
00:51:17,580 --> 00:51:20,100
it's literally millions and millions of dollars

1255
00:51:20,100 --> 00:51:21,940
in overtime alone.

1256
00:51:21,940 --> 00:51:24,300
A lot of time, if you look at what is needed

1257
00:51:24,300 --> 00:51:27,460
to make the transition, it's not a full shift.

1258
00:51:27,460 --> 00:51:29,420
It's not an entire start from zero,

1259
00:51:29,420 --> 00:51:31,900
I need another entire shift to make a D shift.

1260
00:51:31,900 --> 00:51:34,220
You've got Kelly days that you don't have to fill.

1261
00:51:34,220 --> 00:51:36,180
So you've got X amount part of a shift,

1262
00:51:36,180 --> 00:51:40,740
you've over hired, so you've got a few extra bodies.

1263
00:51:40,740 --> 00:51:42,580
You gave extra vacation days,

1264
00:51:42,580 --> 00:51:44,980
because your shift is so terrible,

1265
00:51:44,980 --> 00:51:47,580
that you could negotiate three away,

1266
00:51:47,580 --> 00:51:51,420
and that way you're kind of blunting the amount.

1267
00:51:51,420 --> 00:51:53,700
But most of people, they only needed to pay

1268
00:51:53,700 --> 00:51:57,700
for a half to a third of a shift to actually fill that spot.

1269
00:51:57,700 --> 00:52:00,140
If you've got Kelly days, you've got an overtime spot

1270
00:52:00,140 --> 00:52:02,780
every single time someone's on a Kelly day,

1271
00:52:02,780 --> 00:52:05,100
when those go away, that frees up,

1272
00:52:05,100 --> 00:52:06,700
that overtime money as well.

1273
00:52:08,420 --> 00:52:10,620
The workman's comp claims.

1274
00:52:10,620 --> 00:52:13,300
So if you think all the things I've said,

1275
00:52:13,300 --> 00:52:17,220
everything that we do makes us sick mentally and physically,

1276
00:52:17,220 --> 00:52:19,380
that all obviously has a downstream effect,

1277
00:52:19,380 --> 00:52:21,980
all the injuries, the medical retirements,

1278
00:52:21,980 --> 00:52:23,140
I said the workman's comp claims,

1279
00:52:23,140 --> 00:52:24,940
the insurance premiums being so high

1280
00:52:24,940 --> 00:52:27,420
because we are always hurt and sick.

1281
00:52:27,420 --> 00:52:29,300
That is another huge chunk of money

1282
00:52:29,300 --> 00:52:31,220
that if you proactively invested,

1283
00:52:31,220 --> 00:52:33,260
you would actually, lower premiums,

1284
00:52:33,260 --> 00:52:36,060
the workman's comp claims would be far less,

1285
00:52:36,060 --> 00:52:38,260
medical retirements, line duty deaths.

1286
00:52:38,260 --> 00:52:39,580
So that's another big chunk.

1287
00:52:39,580 --> 00:52:43,540
But like I said before, just retaining recruits

1288
00:52:43,540 --> 00:52:45,780
and your overtime cost alone,

1289
00:52:45,780 --> 00:52:48,100
if you do a financial overview,

1290
00:52:48,100 --> 00:52:49,740
and people ask me, have you got the numbers?

1291
00:52:49,740 --> 00:52:50,980
No, you've got the numbers.

1292
00:52:50,980 --> 00:52:52,740
Each and every one of you has got the access

1293
00:52:52,740 --> 00:52:54,660
to your own department's personal numbers.

1294
00:52:54,660 --> 00:52:59,420
They're unique, other people's numbers are obsolete.

1295
00:52:59,420 --> 00:53:00,740
Then the biggest one that a lot of people

1296
00:53:00,740 --> 00:53:02,700
don't think about is lawsuits.

1297
00:53:02,700 --> 00:53:04,980
I mean, I'll give you an extreme example.

1298
00:53:04,980 --> 00:53:08,100
How much money do you think that the city of Vivaldi

1299
00:53:08,100 --> 00:53:11,260
is gonna have to pay for what happened in that school?

1300
00:53:11,260 --> 00:53:14,460
Would that have funded extra training, fitness standards,

1301
00:53:14,460 --> 00:53:17,340
a fitness instructor, whatever it was, I'm not an expert,

1302
00:53:17,340 --> 00:53:18,940
I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking,

1303
00:53:18,940 --> 00:53:22,340
but obviously it was a huge, huge error.

1304
00:53:22,340 --> 00:53:25,340
What is the downstream cost of that

1305
00:53:25,340 --> 00:53:27,700
instead of proactively fixing whatever issues

1306
00:53:27,700 --> 00:53:29,100
that they were having?

1307
00:53:29,100 --> 00:53:31,540
So the lawsuits, the intersection wrecks,

1308
00:53:31,540 --> 00:53:34,260
the drugs that we push, the wrong drugs,

1309
00:53:36,260 --> 00:53:37,580
being physical with a patient

1310
00:53:37,580 --> 00:53:39,260
because we're so burnt out and exhausted

1311
00:53:39,260 --> 00:53:40,620
and it's the third time we've seen them.

1312
00:53:40,620 --> 00:53:41,580
And you know what I mean?

1313
00:53:41,580 --> 00:53:44,100
These, I know that there's people that come

1314
00:53:44,100 --> 00:53:45,700
and they're searching for money.

1315
00:53:45,700 --> 00:53:46,700
That's another one.

1316
00:53:46,700 --> 00:53:49,260
A healthier, more rested fire department,

1317
00:53:49,260 --> 00:53:51,340
this is gonna happen less.

1318
00:53:51,340 --> 00:53:52,740
So where is the money?

1319
00:53:52,740 --> 00:53:54,300
It's downstream.

1320
00:53:54,300 --> 00:53:57,660
You're wasting it instead of investing it.

1321
00:53:57,660 --> 00:53:59,540
So it's not about asking for more.

1322
00:53:59,540 --> 00:54:01,980
Now, budget year, would you have to go to your city

1323
00:54:01,980 --> 00:54:05,260
or county and say, we need to hire X amount of people?

1324
00:54:05,260 --> 00:54:06,700
Yes, but if you can then,

1325
00:54:06,700 --> 00:54:09,100
because you've done the forensics on your finances,

1326
00:54:09,100 --> 00:54:11,180
say, this is gonna affect this

1327
00:54:11,180 --> 00:54:13,700
and you're just talking retention and overtime alone,

1328
00:54:13,700 --> 00:54:16,580
but then every year we're gonna keep saving that,

1329
00:54:16,580 --> 00:54:17,660
that's where your money is.

1330
00:54:17,660 --> 00:54:20,020
And then as a fire department, think about that.

1331
00:54:20,020 --> 00:54:22,780
You've gone to your city and said,

1332
00:54:22,780 --> 00:54:25,140
we have a solution for the recruitment crisis

1333
00:54:25,140 --> 00:54:28,340
and we have a way of basically justifying

1334
00:54:28,340 --> 00:54:30,740
our own pay increases from here on in

1335
00:54:30,740 --> 00:54:31,900
because we're saving you money.

1336
00:54:31,900 --> 00:54:34,620
We're making you our pay increases.

1337
00:54:34,620 --> 00:54:37,100
A big thing I think that people don't think about too,

1338
00:54:37,100 --> 00:54:40,860
as our level of service is diminishing,

1339
00:54:40,860 --> 00:54:42,940
no, we're not telling the taxpayer.

1340
00:54:42,940 --> 00:54:44,980
They're not getting a partial tax refund

1341
00:54:44,980 --> 00:54:46,660
because now there's only three instead of four

1342
00:54:46,660 --> 00:54:47,620
on the engine.

1343
00:54:47,620 --> 00:54:50,460
And now that closest rescue is two districts away

1344
00:54:50,460 --> 00:54:52,380
because the one that should be covering them

1345
00:54:52,380 --> 00:54:55,660
is now doing inter-facility transports for the hospital.

1346
00:54:55,660 --> 00:54:58,220
So by fixing this, we can make sure

1347
00:54:58,220 --> 00:54:59,420
that delivery of services,

1348
00:54:59,420 --> 00:55:03,500
what the public has actually paid for and expecting.

1349
00:55:03,500 --> 00:55:04,780
So there's that as well.

1350
00:55:06,020 --> 00:55:08,260
Moving on to will our pay be cut?

1351
00:55:08,260 --> 00:55:10,100
I get this a lot.

1352
00:55:10,100 --> 00:55:12,060
Oh, you're gonna cut the hours, you're gonna cut our pay.

1353
00:55:12,060 --> 00:55:12,880
It's very simple.

1354
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:15,900
We don't get hourly rate, we pay the salary.

1355
00:55:15,900 --> 00:55:17,300
You can break it down to hour,

1356
00:55:17,300 --> 00:55:20,340
but like I tell people, okay, now you go to training,

1357
00:55:20,340 --> 00:55:23,180
40 hour, do they cut your pay?

1358
00:55:23,180 --> 00:55:25,700
No, they adjust your pay, your hourly pay.

1359
00:55:25,700 --> 00:55:27,540
And that's exactly what would happen.

1360
00:55:28,660 --> 00:55:30,660
If you have, and this is where the recruitment thing,

1361
00:55:30,660 --> 00:55:33,500
you fix this now and this Boynton saw this,

1362
00:55:33,500 --> 00:55:35,580
Gainesville saw this, PASCO saw this.

1363
00:55:35,580 --> 00:55:36,780
When you say to the world,

1364
00:55:36,780 --> 00:55:38,780
we are gonna go to a more progressive shift

1365
00:55:38,780 --> 00:55:41,000
because we care about our firefighters,

1366
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:44,020
people start lining up outside your department.

1367
00:55:44,020 --> 00:55:46,420
And now all those holes that you are plugging

1368
00:55:46,420 --> 00:55:48,820
have now been filled with recruits.

1369
00:55:48,820 --> 00:55:52,300
So there isn't that overtime to keep slamming people with.

1370
00:55:52,300 --> 00:55:54,860
The good thing is though, when you do get overtime,

1371
00:55:54,860 --> 00:55:55,860
because it's not going away,

1372
00:55:55,860 --> 00:55:57,100
like the Gainesville guys are telling me,

1373
00:55:57,100 --> 00:55:59,420
they have Gator games and all kinds of stuff

1374
00:55:59,420 --> 00:56:01,380
where there's lots of overtime,

1375
00:56:01,380 --> 00:56:03,880
but again, it's not overnight all the time.

1376
00:56:05,340 --> 00:56:07,700
Now your hourly rate would actually be higher,

1377
00:56:07,700 --> 00:56:09,020
your overtime rate would be higher.

1378
00:56:09,020 --> 00:56:10,300
So you're not gonna lose money,

1379
00:56:10,300 --> 00:56:12,740
you're actually per hour gonna gain money.

1380
00:56:12,740 --> 00:56:15,300
But this is another kind of urban legend fairy tale

1381
00:56:15,300 --> 00:56:16,900
that we've been telling ourselves is why not

1382
00:56:16,900 --> 00:56:18,900
to put the effort to make the change.

1383
00:56:20,660 --> 00:56:22,180
All right, losing overtime.

1384
00:56:22,180 --> 00:56:23,420
I think I touched on this before,

1385
00:56:23,420 --> 00:56:28,100
but the long and the short is when you became a firefighter,

1386
00:56:28,100 --> 00:56:29,680
we looked at how much it paid.

1387
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,180
We didn't say, oh, but I'm gonna have all this mandatory

1388
00:56:32,180 --> 00:56:35,000
or overtime I'm gonna work and this is actually my salary.

1389
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,700
So talking of the firefighter ownership,

1390
00:56:37,700 --> 00:56:41,140
it's on us if we can or can't afford our lifestyle.

1391
00:56:41,140 --> 00:56:44,000
But that being said, are there times where we need

1392
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,580
to supplement our income? Absolutely.

1393
00:56:46,580 --> 00:56:50,300
But is it healthier to do it in a different capacity

1394
00:56:50,300 --> 00:56:52,580
rather than work yet another 24

1395
00:56:52,580 --> 00:56:55,620
and be away from our family for another entire day

1396
00:56:55,620 --> 00:57:00,380
and be even more exhausted and more likely to get burnt out?

1397
00:57:00,380 --> 00:57:01,900
No, it doesn't make any sense.

1398
00:57:01,900 --> 00:57:05,900
So I don't wanna lose my overtime is an absolute BS,

1399
00:57:05,900 --> 00:57:08,220
reason why we do this because I guess I said,

1400
00:57:08,220 --> 00:57:10,420
it's not about you, it's about them.

1401
00:57:10,420 --> 00:57:11,460
That being said though,

1402
00:57:11,460 --> 00:57:14,980
there is such a healthy alternative to this.

1403
00:57:14,980 --> 00:57:16,700
I know, I don't think I know a firefighter

1404
00:57:16,700 --> 00:57:18,460
who hasn't got a side hustle,

1405
00:57:18,460 --> 00:57:20,780
who isn't an innovator in some other way,

1406
00:57:20,780 --> 00:57:22,460
who didn't have a trade before.

1407
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:28,320
You could hang drywall all day, you could install cabinets,

1408
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,140
you could teach piano, you could personal train,

1409
00:57:31,140 --> 00:57:34,340
whatever it is, but you're gonna be in your own bed

1410
00:57:34,340 --> 00:57:35,480
that night.

1411
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,100
So you're still able to make money,

1412
00:57:37,100 --> 00:57:39,060
but you go home to your family,

1413
00:57:39,060 --> 00:57:42,740
you sleep next to your partner and you get a good night's sleep.

1414
00:57:42,740 --> 00:57:44,580
The reason why this is so important

1415
00:57:44,580 --> 00:57:47,460
is if you watch a lot of our retirees and all you've done,

1416
00:57:47,460 --> 00:57:51,080
your identity has been purely, I am a firefighter,

1417
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,620
it is a jarring transition when you leave

1418
00:57:53,620 --> 00:57:56,540
because you've lost your tribe, you've lost your purpose,

1419
00:57:56,540 --> 00:57:58,700
you lost all the things that made you that firefighter.

1420
00:57:58,700 --> 00:58:02,140
But if you were a firefighter and a landscaper

1421
00:58:02,140 --> 00:58:04,780
or whatever your thing is,

1422
00:58:04,780 --> 00:58:06,420
well, you've got that second tribe.

1423
00:58:06,420 --> 00:58:09,100
God forbid something happens in your city,

1424
00:58:09,100 --> 00:58:11,220
they have to cut the whole load of positions

1425
00:58:11,220 --> 00:58:13,300
and you get fired, which is what we've seen in the past

1426
00:58:13,300 --> 00:58:16,620
during the crisis, you have that to fall back on.

1427
00:58:16,620 --> 00:58:20,320
So ownership of the firefighter, I wanna hit that hard.

1428
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:23,020
If we're gonna advocate for a work week

1429
00:58:23,020 --> 00:58:26,020
that's healthy for you, it is up to you to not take

1430
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:30,380
a second fire department job, an overnight shift in the ER,

1431
00:58:30,380 --> 00:58:32,420
a private ambulance company job,

1432
00:58:32,420 --> 00:58:35,300
that you've used this to be with your family more

1433
00:58:35,300 --> 00:58:37,740
because the way that we save a lot of these firefighter

1434
00:58:37,740 --> 00:58:39,860
relationships is we just home more.

1435
00:58:39,860 --> 00:58:44,820
There is nothing more heartbreaking than promising your child

1436
00:58:44,820 --> 00:58:47,420
that you will be home and at 7.30 that morning

1437
00:58:47,420 --> 00:58:49,620
you get the phone call and you have to call them back

1438
00:58:49,620 --> 00:58:51,820
and say, daddy, I can't, daddy can't come home,

1439
00:58:51,820 --> 00:58:53,300
I'm so sorry.

1440
00:58:53,300 --> 00:58:55,460
And then by the time you get home, you're so damn exhausted,

1441
00:58:55,460 --> 00:58:56,940
you got a few hours and then off to bed

1442
00:58:56,940 --> 00:58:58,340
and back to the station.

1443
00:58:58,340 --> 00:59:01,460
So this time at home is so important

1444
00:59:01,460 --> 00:59:05,100
and that overtime was never promised to you,

1445
00:59:05,100 --> 00:59:07,500
it will always be there but it was supposed to be occasional.

1446
00:59:07,500 --> 00:59:10,140
When we have a hurricane blow through Florida,

1447
00:59:10,140 --> 00:59:12,060
it is all hands, we kiss our loved ones

1448
00:59:12,060 --> 00:59:15,040
and we go towards the storm, it's part of the job.

1449
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,900
But that should not be a year in, year out

1450
00:59:17,900 --> 00:59:22,120
staffing procedure, it's not fair because the only people

1451
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:24,540
that pay for that are the firefighters themselves,

1452
00:59:24,540 --> 00:59:28,660
the people that do the scheduling, 5 p.m., see ya.

1453
00:59:28,660 --> 00:59:31,020
So it's so unfair.

1454
00:59:31,020 --> 00:59:35,580
All right, I got chance, the collective host,

1455
00:59:35,580 --> 00:59:38,380
amazing podcast, he's running the tech here.

1456
00:59:38,380 --> 00:59:40,580
So we're gonna skip to what did Gainesville,

1457
00:59:40,580 --> 00:59:42,620
Pasco County and Boynton Beach see?

1458
00:59:42,620 --> 00:59:45,940
So these, what, two of these departments have recently gone,

1459
00:59:45,940 --> 00:59:48,660
Pasco County is going to it in 2026.

1460
00:59:48,660 --> 00:59:51,100
But even that, advertising that they are going

1461
00:59:51,100 --> 00:59:55,020
to this schedule, they are seeing a massive increase

1462
00:59:55,020 --> 00:59:58,660
in recruitment, morale has already gone up.

1463
00:59:58,660 --> 01:00:01,660
I mean, everything that we've talked about is not working,

1464
01:00:01,660 --> 01:00:02,480
it's starting to work.

1465
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,300
Now, here's what's exciting is the city of Gainesville

1466
01:00:05,300 --> 01:00:07,820
is actually having, I forget which school it is,

1467
01:00:07,820 --> 01:00:11,560
I think it's, I don't wanna miss, Florida State,

1468
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:14,300
I think it's Florida State are actually studying them.

1469
01:00:14,300 --> 01:00:16,380
I hope they got baseline pre and then they're gonna

1470
01:00:16,380 --> 01:00:17,220
be studying them.

1471
01:00:17,220 --> 01:00:19,380
So we will finally have some data, not that you need

1472
01:00:19,380 --> 01:00:21,020
to wait for the data because again, we all know

1473
01:00:21,020 --> 01:00:23,420
what it's gonna show, it's gonna be better.

1474
01:00:23,420 --> 01:00:26,040
But everything that we're worried about

1475
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:27,320
is starting to turn around.

1476
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,660
And if we fix this work week initially,

1477
01:00:30,660 --> 01:00:33,660
recruits are gonna be going for the better department

1478
01:00:33,660 --> 01:00:36,580
and not testing for the one that hasn't changed yet.

1479
01:00:36,580 --> 01:00:39,060
As we go on now and there's this progressive move

1480
01:00:39,060 --> 01:00:41,780
towards the shift, more and more people are gonna start

1481
01:00:41,780 --> 01:00:43,180
filing back into this profession.

1482
01:00:43,180 --> 01:00:45,700
Because think how many people have their certificate,

1483
01:00:45,700 --> 01:00:47,700
they just chose not to become a firefighter.

1484
01:00:47,700 --> 01:00:49,460
We can attract them, we can stop the people

1485
01:00:49,460 --> 01:00:51,860
that are thinking of retiring early, leaving,

1486
01:00:51,860 --> 01:00:54,060
if it suits them.

1487
01:00:54,060 --> 01:00:57,100
So then there are, there were so many firefighters,

1488
01:00:57,100 --> 01:00:58,560
so there's never gonna be like, oh, we're not gonna have

1489
01:00:58,560 --> 01:00:59,660
enough firefighters.

1490
01:00:59,660 --> 01:01:02,060
We used to have so many that we would have to wait years

1491
01:01:02,060 --> 01:01:03,220
to get that spot.

1492
01:01:03,220 --> 01:01:07,860
That's where we need to get back to, choose that top 25%.

1493
01:01:07,860 --> 01:01:12,120
All right, so as I said, with the financial savings,

1494
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:15,340
we got the wage increases, reduced insurance premiums,

1495
01:01:15,340 --> 01:01:17,100
that obviously benefits everyone.

1496
01:01:17,100 --> 01:01:18,820
I forget who it was, but I was talking to someone

1497
01:01:18,820 --> 01:01:21,900
the other day and I think it was Rob Milano

1498
01:01:21,900 --> 01:01:23,260
and their self-insured.

1499
01:01:23,260 --> 01:01:26,400
So if you get your workforce healthier,

1500
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:27,980
you can actually have your own insurance,

1501
01:01:27,980 --> 01:01:30,740
depending on the size of the city, of course, or county.

1502
01:01:31,900 --> 01:01:34,940
So that being said, I wanna give you some more resources.

1503
01:01:36,260 --> 01:01:39,540
Chief Hugh Bruder, chief of Boynton Beach Fire Department,

1504
01:01:39,540 --> 01:01:44,540
they went to 2472, originally from 2448, 18 months ago.

1505
01:01:45,220 --> 01:01:47,860
Amazing, Hugh has been in the fire service

1506
01:01:47,860 --> 01:01:49,220
from Miami-Dade through the ranks.

1507
01:01:49,220 --> 01:01:51,180
He ended up working as a city manager for a bit

1508
01:01:51,180 --> 01:01:53,700
and he's the Boynton Fire Chief now.

1509
01:01:53,700 --> 01:01:55,780
His brother has also been in the mental health space

1510
01:01:55,780 --> 01:01:59,820
the whole time, so amazing, amazing episode, 854.

1511
01:01:59,820 --> 01:02:02,620
If you haven't heard that one, listen to that one.

1512
01:02:02,620 --> 01:02:04,900
Dixon Phillips, one of the union leaders

1513
01:02:04,900 --> 01:02:09,540
in Pasco County, episode 879.

1514
01:02:09,540 --> 01:02:11,940
Again, this is a much bigger county

1515
01:02:13,100 --> 01:02:15,500
and they're having to roll it out a little slower,

1516
01:02:15,500 --> 01:02:16,660
but they're rolling it out.

1517
01:02:16,660 --> 01:02:19,380
They just took it upon themselves and said, we're doing this.

1518
01:02:19,380 --> 01:02:22,340
And just so you know, this is why I'm doing this.

1519
01:02:22,340 --> 01:02:25,020
I fielded so many phone calls, so many texts,

1520
01:02:25,020 --> 01:02:27,660
so many emails all over the country,

1521
01:02:27,660 --> 01:02:30,820
from the West Coast all the way through to the East Coast.

1522
01:02:30,820 --> 01:02:33,700
So the revolution has started, this is happening

1523
01:02:33,700 --> 01:02:36,700
and it's so exciting to see.

1524
01:02:36,700 --> 01:02:39,060
What I gotta point out though is if you're a thought leader

1525
01:02:39,060 --> 01:02:41,420
and you wanna be progressive and as Hugh talks about,

1526
01:02:41,420 --> 01:02:43,300
you wanna create a destination department

1527
01:02:43,300 --> 01:02:47,220
where people are vying to go for, this is your sign.

1528
01:02:47,220 --> 01:02:49,220
Now is when you need to do it.

1529
01:02:49,220 --> 01:02:51,900
Where I live, we have the Florida State Fire College,

1530
01:02:51,900 --> 01:02:56,300
an amazing college and it's in Marion County.

1531
01:02:56,300 --> 01:03:01,300
Now we have City of Gainesville, fire instructors,

1532
01:03:01,900 --> 01:03:04,020
we have Marion County, we have Ocala

1533
01:03:04,020 --> 01:03:05,300
and then some other ones.

1534
01:03:05,300 --> 01:03:07,180
But you think about this, those young recruits

1535
01:03:07,180 --> 01:03:08,260
that are going through the school,

1536
01:03:08,260 --> 01:03:10,340
just a few miles from where I'm sitting,

1537
01:03:10,340 --> 01:03:12,220
they're going through the pipeline.

1538
01:03:12,220 --> 01:03:15,700
We've got one department here, it's got 2472.

1539
01:03:15,700 --> 01:03:18,300
I think Ocala, correct me if I'm wrong, has a Kelly

1540
01:03:18,300 --> 01:03:20,500
and then Marion in 56, no Kelly,

1541
01:03:20,500 --> 01:03:23,220
frequent mandatory overtime.

1542
01:03:23,220 --> 01:03:25,220
Of those three, if you're a young recruit,

1543
01:03:25,220 --> 01:03:27,140
which one are you testing for?

1544
01:03:27,140 --> 01:03:30,860
So the people that protect my family,

1545
01:03:30,860 --> 01:03:32,100
because I'm in the City of Ocala

1546
01:03:32,100 --> 01:03:34,860
and Marion County are the paramedics, the transport medics.

1547
01:03:34,860 --> 01:03:37,460
The people that protect my county are the ones

1548
01:03:37,460 --> 01:03:40,500
that are gonna be getting the rest of the candidates.

1549
01:03:40,500 --> 01:03:43,340
But Gainesville, where I do jujitsu,

1550
01:03:43,340 --> 01:03:46,580
they're getting to choose the best of the best

1551
01:03:46,580 --> 01:03:48,020
for their department.

1552
01:03:48,020 --> 01:03:50,220
So as I said, you can be at the helm

1553
01:03:50,220 --> 01:03:51,940
as a progressive leader,

1554
01:03:51,940 --> 01:03:54,140
or you can be going down with the ship.

1555
01:03:54,140 --> 01:03:56,380
And I hope to God Marion County changes

1556
01:03:56,380 --> 01:03:59,700
because this blue sky study was done for them.

1557
01:03:59,700 --> 01:04:02,060
I will read you just quickly.

1558
01:04:03,500 --> 01:04:05,140
Put my old man glasses on a sec.

1559
01:04:05,140 --> 01:04:10,140
This was the first takeaway from all these great minds.

1560
01:04:10,140 --> 01:04:12,520
Explore how work scheduling can be improved

1561
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:14,520
with interconnected goals of improving

1562
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:17,180
firefight resilience and health.

1563
01:04:17,180 --> 01:04:19,140
Improving recruiting and retention

1564
01:04:19,140 --> 01:04:21,100
and reducing mandatory overtime.

1565
01:04:21,100 --> 01:04:23,220
Several presenters suggested exploring options

1566
01:04:23,220 --> 01:04:25,460
for adding more time between shifts.

1567
01:04:25,460 --> 01:04:27,540
In particular, there was an extensive discussion

1568
01:04:27,540 --> 01:04:30,480
of possibly moving to a 2472 schedule.

1569
01:04:31,380 --> 01:04:34,700
So number one, that was their takeaway.

1570
01:04:34,700 --> 01:04:38,300
So the city where I live, that these business people

1571
01:04:38,300 --> 01:04:40,420
put a lot of money with one of the greatest

1572
01:04:40,420 --> 01:04:43,780
human performance research organizations on the planet,

1573
01:04:45,700 --> 01:04:47,140
haven't made this change yet.

1574
01:04:47,140 --> 01:04:49,500
I'm just gonna say that very politically correctly.

1575
01:04:49,500 --> 01:04:52,140
And I hope they do because I have a vested interest

1576
01:04:52,140 --> 01:04:54,300
because it's my family that they're protecting.

1577
01:04:54,300 --> 01:04:57,120
So do you wanna be a destination department

1578
01:04:57,120 --> 01:04:59,020
or do you wanna be the one that's left

1579
01:04:59,020 --> 01:05:01,140
with all the recruits that no one wants?

1580
01:05:01,140 --> 01:05:01,980
You know what I mean?

1581
01:05:01,980 --> 01:05:03,380
It's just, it's that simple.

1582
01:05:03,380 --> 01:05:05,460
If we move as an entire profession,

1583
01:05:05,460 --> 01:05:08,320
we inspire a generation of young firefighter recruits.

1584
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:10,220
And then we go back to hundreds of people testing

1585
01:05:10,220 --> 01:05:12,500
for a handful of jobs, which is not a fairy tale.

1586
01:05:12,500 --> 01:05:15,400
It's literally the fire service 10, 15 years ago.

1587
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:19,880
All right, another, I think extremely valid point

1588
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:21,700
is when you give more rest and recovery,

1589
01:05:21,700 --> 01:05:23,960
we can then put the hiring standards back

1590
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:25,080
where they should be.

1591
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:27,320
I'm a raise that bar kind of a guy.

1592
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:29,480
City of Anaheim put that bar up.

1593
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:34,400
Every, excuse me, every class lost 25% of their probies

1594
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:35,480
through attrition.

1595
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:39,240
And they were like, okay, you know, thanks.

1596
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:40,680
There's other departments that will take you.

1597
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:42,440
It's nothing personal, but this is our bar.

1598
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:44,280
We're not moving our bar.

1599
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:48,920
And I know from my probation, it was 365 days of terror

1600
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:50,960
thinking you're gonna lose your job, you know,

1601
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:52,240
and then you get to the other side

1602
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:54,840
and you try not to be a Yad year and a day.

1603
01:05:54,840 --> 01:05:58,040
But they had incredible firefighters,

1604
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:00,880
incredible engineers, incredible captains, BCs,

1605
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:05,480
because the bar then stays, it's intrinsic, it's a culture.

1606
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:07,280
And this was funny with the fire service.

1607
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:08,840
I hear a lot of people saying,

1608
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:10,680
the leather helmet is history.

1609
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:12,640
Sorry, the leather helmet is a tradition,

1610
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:14,260
and it's not, it's history.

1611
01:06:14,260 --> 01:06:17,720
Tradition is selflessness and courage

1612
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:19,560
and camaraderie and service.

1613
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:21,840
Those are the traditions of the fire service.

1614
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:23,600
And what's interesting is we've got courage

1615
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:25,880
making entry to a burning building,

1616
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:27,460
but we need to find that same courage

1617
01:06:27,460 --> 01:06:29,440
to advocate for our people.

1618
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:32,600
Because if you're, after especially hearing this

1619
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:34,960
and seeing this gamut of research

1620
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:37,480
and these incredible minds that I'm presenting to you,

1621
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:40,820
still refusing to acknowledge the change,

1622
01:06:40,820 --> 01:06:42,160
then to be completely blunt,

1623
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:44,440
don't show up to the funerals anymore

1624
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:46,440
because you refuse to be part of the solution.

1625
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:47,520
It's that simple.

1626
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:50,520
We are at that point now where the evidence is irrefutable,

1627
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:53,360
the sleep medicine world, the musculoskeletal injuries,

1628
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:55,000
I mean, all the things.

1629
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,600
We don't die of one thing, we die of everything.

1630
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:00,400
So amongst all the other elements,

1631
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:02,040
the sleep deprivation breaks us down

1632
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:03,360
and whatever the weakest link is,

1633
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:06,760
a blood vessel in our mind, a disc in our back,

1634
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:09,240
a valve in our heart, whatever the thing is,

1635
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:10,440
that's what kills us.

1636
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:13,280
So this is the time for courageous leadership.

1637
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:15,840
And if you don't wanna be a courageous leader,

1638
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:17,320
then have the humility to step aside

1639
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:19,320
and let someone else take the helm.

1640
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:22,140
So that's kind of the closing thing.

1641
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:25,320
I didn't see any questions pop up.

1642
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:28,180
I've seen, I don't know, chance if you've got any for me,

1643
01:07:28,180 --> 01:07:31,120
I've just been monologuing all the way through.

1644
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:31,960
Say again?

1645
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:34,260
Okay, yeah.

1646
01:07:34,260 --> 01:07:35,820
So before I go to the very, very end,

1647
01:07:35,820 --> 01:07:38,380
then I'll do some questions now, as I promised,

1648
01:07:38,380 --> 01:07:40,560
otherwise it was just an A, no Q.

1649
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:44,280
All right, how do you argue department saves

1650
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:47,120
30% less, it's 30% pay?

1651
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:50,000
So here's, someone said like kind of the opposite.

1652
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:52,080
So it's a great, I'm glad that you asked this.

1653
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:54,000
I've got a friend in the Northeast

1654
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,040
who's surrounded by departments that work

1655
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:59,520
42 hour work weeks, and they are on a 56 hour work week.

1656
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:00,800
So I'm gonna flip that around.

1657
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:02,820
Bearing in mind, how do you justify

1658
01:08:02,820 --> 01:08:06,880
that a person in admin works 40 and you work 56,

1659
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:10,120
not sleeping, that you can't justify that.

1660
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:13,360
But what he said is basically what the department

1661
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:17,080
is saying to the 56 hour people when the 42s are a thing,

1662
01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:19,020
and then the fire services are general,

1663
01:08:19,020 --> 01:08:21,480
the Northeast, Boston, and everyone around there,

1664
01:08:21,480 --> 01:08:24,380
they work 42, 24, 72s, and that's normal,

1665
01:08:24,380 --> 01:08:26,560
which is probably why this conversation is maddening to them.

1666
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:27,780
I don't understand what he's talking about.

1667
01:08:27,780 --> 01:08:28,680
We already do it.

1668
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:32,440
A 56 hour department, you're telling your people

1669
01:08:32,440 --> 01:08:36,000
that they are worth 33.3% less

1670
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:39,400
than the fire departments that work a 42 hour work week.

1671
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:41,040
So I would flip that around.

1672
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:45,320
Why are you expected to work 56

1673
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:48,960
when arguably the fathers of the fire service,

1674
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:51,960
the cities in the Northeast, work a 42?

1675
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:56,380
So until you can explain to me, council member, whatever,

1676
01:08:56,380 --> 01:08:58,440
why you need to go home at 5 p.m.,

1677
01:08:58,440 --> 01:09:02,000
but you say that I should do two more civilian shifts

1678
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:05,800
per week than you who doesn't save lives,

1679
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:08,840
doesn't push meds, doesn't cut people out of cars,

1680
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:10,480
then your argument is invalid.

1681
01:09:10,480 --> 01:09:12,700
So the pay is the salary.

1682
01:09:12,700 --> 01:09:15,640
It's the hours that we've got wrong for so long.

1683
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:19,400
And if you wanna actually save money and fix this crisis,

1684
01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:20,720
here's your opportunity.

1685
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:22,560
If you wanna keep bleeding and, like I said,

1686
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:25,280
be at the helm of a fire department that sinks,

1687
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:26,560
you keep doing what you're doing.

1688
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:28,920
But like I said, don't show up at the funeral.

1689
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:31,680
So again, yeah, from what I understand,

1690
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:33,200
and I worked Kelly Day,

1691
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:35,640
I had Kelly Days in a couple of departments

1692
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:39,320
and then 10 years of 56 hour weeks,

1693
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:42,360
no Kellys and frequent mandatory.

1694
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:44,600
But from what I understand, I mean, if you have a Kelly Day,

1695
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:47,760
obviously, if James is supposed to be there on this day shift

1696
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:50,080
on the Tuesday, every Tuesday, and I'm not,

1697
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:52,400
now you're filling that spot.

1698
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:56,680
So you've gotta look at it as this is the overtime

1699
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:58,840
that is filling these K Days.

1700
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:00,080
So you're giving the K Days away.

1701
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:01,960
And I forget the actual math,

1702
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,880
but if you have Kelly Days, obviously they go away,

1703
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:06,960
but you end up with a lot more days off.

1704
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:08,840
So if you're fighting that,

1705
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:11,280
you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

1706
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:14,400
The vacation day accrual, Orange County where I worked,

1707
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:17,560
I forget what I had, I had like 16 vacation days a year

1708
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:19,400
or something like that, and I was only there five years.

1709
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:21,240
Funny enough, I earned less when I left

1710
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:22,680
than when I got hired.

1711
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:23,800
There we go.

1712
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,160
But so, if someone said to me,

1713
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:27,800
hey, we're gonna go to 2472,

1714
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:29,400
but James, we're gonna have to give away

1715
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:32,720
four of your vacation days in lieu of whatever it is,

1716
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:36,880
30 days more a year, then I'm not a math genius,

1717
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:38,280
but that works for me.

1718
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:41,360
But that being said, when it comes to specifics like that,

1719
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:42,520
I'm not the expert.

1720
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:45,880
I'm literally the conduit between the real experts

1721
01:10:45,880 --> 01:10:47,360
and you guys.

1722
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:49,520
So what I would do, Chief Hugh Bruder

1723
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:52,080
is always open to conversation.

1724
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:55,640
He went from 2448, they were Kelly's intermittently,

1725
01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:57,320
and then they went to 2472.

1726
01:10:57,320 --> 01:10:58,760
So I reached out to Hugh.

1727
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:02,400
I think he's ultimately gonna be speaking.

1728
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:05,440
Oh, well, I remember, let me look it up,

1729
01:11:05,440 --> 01:11:08,240
the Florida Fire Chiefs Conference.

1730
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:11,680
I don't normally ever speak, but I'm Q&Aing,

1731
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:16,080
I'm chairing a Q&A, and we have Pasco,

1732
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:17,480
we have Hugh, we have Dixon,

1733
01:11:17,480 --> 01:11:20,000
and then we've got one of the Gainesville Chiefs

1734
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:21,160
coming on as well.

1735
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:22,480
So we'll have the three departments

1736
01:11:22,480 --> 01:11:24,080
that are recently gone are about to go,

1737
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:28,520
and then we have one of the neuro, excuse me,

1738
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:31,120
the firefighter health scientists coming on as well.

1739
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:35,400
So that will be, it's the one,

1740
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:37,600
it's the seventh, eighth, ninth in Orlando.

1741
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:38,880
So if you're around there,

1742
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:42,280
you actually get to physically ask these people yourself.

1743
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:44,120
I mean, here's what's sad.

1744
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:47,640
I, and I think I said this on a quick short video

1745
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:48,960
when I was promoting this.

1746
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:50,800
When I left my last apartment,

1747
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:54,160
I gave up my pension to start the Behind the Shield.

1748
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:55,120
So I basically cashed out,

1749
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:57,200
gave myself a salary for a year and a half

1750
01:11:57,200 --> 01:11:59,120
to do this full on.

1751
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:02,160
And because for me,

1752
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:06,720
burying my friends was enough in itself.

1753
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:08,680
And this is what I've said before.

1754
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:13,680
I struggle to understand why a chief or a union leader

1755
01:12:14,440 --> 01:12:17,320
wouldn't be scouring the edges of the earth

1756
01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:21,160
to find solutions after burying their men and their women.

1757
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:22,920
It is enough to move me, that's it.

1758
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:25,000
All you have to say is people are dying.

1759
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:26,480
Like I work for free.

1760
01:12:26,480 --> 01:12:28,920
I have sponsors, not been a great financial year,

1761
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:31,560
not making as much as I gave up, but it's not about that.

1762
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:32,800
It's about this.

1763
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:36,040
It's about less last calls and less bagpipes,

1764
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:39,640
less helmets being handed to broken hearted children.

1765
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:40,640
But that being said,

1766
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:44,000
not all the people have the same servant's heart that we do.

1767
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:45,320
And so it boils down to money.

1768
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:47,720
So if you again, go to your city or your county

1769
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:50,120
and you ask them to forensically analyze

1770
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:53,000
how much you spend on overtime at the moment,

1771
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:55,680
what is your recruitment and retention?

1772
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:57,960
What are your workman's comp fees?

1773
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:00,200
And then if they're able to,

1774
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:01,880
are there any fire related lawsuits?

1775
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:05,000
And can you just tell me how much the settlement was?

1776
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,040
That's gonna show you how much money is,

1777
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:09,080
cause it's two trays in and out.

1778
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:10,760
So this is the thing.

1779
01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:14,720
I mean, I like to compare this to nationally.

1780
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:17,000
I come from a country that had the national health,

1781
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:19,160
which when it was first put in place,

1782
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:22,000
I would argue is the best healthcare system in the world.

1783
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:24,080
The reason I say that is if it's done properly,

1784
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:25,880
it costs the taxpayer very little.

1785
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:30,000
And the focus is making the country as healthy as possible

1786
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:32,680
that they only need to really use it in car accidents

1787
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:35,120
and childbirth and taking care of the elderly

1788
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:39,240
and special needs and the occasional A&E visit.

1789
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:41,320
But what's happening in my beloved country

1790
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:42,840
is they're getting fatter and sicker

1791
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:45,600
and my beautiful healthcare system is falling apart

1792
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:47,360
cause it wasn't designed to be used

1793
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:50,640
and it's kind of partly privatized and picked apart

1794
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:53,080
and to the point where it's bleeding.

1795
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:55,520
So the healthier the department,

1796
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:57,120
the less money you cost.

1797
01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:00,160
The healthier a nation, the less money we cost.

1798
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:03,920
So we don't ask, the focus is not to ask for more money.

1799
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:05,520
It's just to show them, look,

1800
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:09,160
you'd show me the figures, here's the money.

1801
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:11,760
We just need to do this recruiting one time,

1802
01:14:11,760 --> 01:14:12,960
with these new people,

1803
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:15,800
and you're gonna keep saving year after year after year,

1804
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:17,280
and you're gonna look like a rock star.

1805
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:19,800
And you can say it was your idea,

1806
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:22,000
massage the ego if you have to,

1807
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,240
but the reality is that it's the money

1808
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:25,240
that's really gonna talk.

1809
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:26,840
And I think sadly, that's the case

1810
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:28,360
with most cities and counties,

1811
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:31,160
but that's a beautiful thing.

1812
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:32,120
It will work.

1813
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:34,800
There are money savings there,

1814
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:36,880
so you don't have to cook the books.

1815
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:39,520
You just have to do good forensic accounting.

1816
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:41,080
Ask for the right numbers and say,

1817
01:14:41,080 --> 01:14:45,320
look, if we proactively fix this, more rest and recovery,

1818
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:46,720
let me show you Gainesville.

1819
01:14:46,720 --> 01:14:48,480
Let me talk to their chief

1820
01:14:48,480 --> 01:14:50,360
and find out what happened to them.

1821
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:52,680
And then you're off to the races.

1822
01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:54,600
So firstly, hey, Matt, he's been on my show.

1823
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:56,320
I think we came on twice now, Matt.

1824
01:14:57,880 --> 01:14:59,680
So when people save as far as a data,

1825
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:01,520
like I said before,

1826
01:15:02,440 --> 01:15:04,480
really you need to go to your own department.

1827
01:15:04,480 --> 01:15:07,280
Now you can absolutely kind of find out,

1828
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:09,600
all right, South Metro, wherever you are,

1829
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:11,400
what would be an appropriate size.

1830
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:13,640
So for you, I would assume city of Gainesville

1831
01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:14,840
would probably be a good one.

1832
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:18,840
So again, contacting Matt and Brian

1833
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:20,680
and some of the leaders there

1834
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:22,360
would be a great way of finding out,

1835
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:23,600
okay, what did you see?

1836
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:25,240
What were the savings?

1837
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:26,680
But they're somewhat new to this.

1838
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:31,440
So the problem is the data is gonna take a while to accrue.

1839
01:15:31,440 --> 01:15:34,400
So if you go back to all the data we've shown

1840
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:36,760
on what happens with seat deprivation and all the things,

1841
01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:38,000
and you look at your department and go,

1842
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:39,720
oh, we're getting all those things.

1843
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:44,120
And South Metro is a very, very progressive fire department.

1844
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:46,120
I've had Chris Macklin on the show

1845
01:15:46,120 --> 01:15:47,840
and most of the things are doing really well.

1846
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:49,200
The shifts, they're not there yet,

1847
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:50,360
but I know they're talking about it.

1848
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:52,880
But this is what happens.

1849
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:54,760
So we put in a mental health counselor

1850
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:56,880
and we put in the strength and conditioning coach,

1851
01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:58,280
and that's amazing.

1852
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:01,080
But if you listen to any of the high level coaches

1853
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:03,360
of which I've had so many, Dan John,

1854
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:06,320
and so many people that train tactical athletes,

1855
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:08,440
sporting athletes, they all say,

1856
01:16:08,440 --> 01:16:10,240
if you are not sleeping,

1857
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:12,920
the exercise and the nutrition side

1858
01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:15,440
is not completely wasted,

1859
01:16:15,440 --> 01:16:18,040
but it falls by the wayside.

1860
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:20,040
The sleep is the pillar of health.

1861
01:16:20,040 --> 01:16:22,320
So it's going back to just understanding that.

1862
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:24,320
But what I would say everyone is, again,

1863
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:28,720
just forensically look at your own department.

1864
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:29,960
You need your numbers.

1865
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:34,240
Like the city of Boynton Beach,

1866
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:35,880
Pasco's numbers aren't gonna help them.

1867
01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:37,320
Pasco County is a county,

1868
01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:39,360
and it's a completely different animal.

1869
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:41,320
So I would go to your own place, say,

1870
01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:44,640
can you show me where we're losing all this money?

1871
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:47,960
And then obviously, you put your common sense hat on,

1872
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:51,040
okay, 42 hours a week is gonna be a lot healthier than 56,

1873
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:53,240
more rest and recovery, and we're gonna see,

1874
01:16:53,240 --> 01:16:55,320
okay, we've got all these muscular skeletal injuries

1875
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:56,160
in Workman's Comp.

1876
01:16:56,160 --> 01:16:58,160
Well, we know that more rest and recovery

1877
01:16:58,160 --> 01:16:59,840
will allow people to heal.

1878
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:00,760
They'll have more energy.

1879
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:03,360
We can implement a better strength and conditioning program,

1880
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:05,680
get people to lose some weight,

1881
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:08,960
and it's just this positive vicious circle.

1882
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:11,120
So as far as data, Matt,

1883
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:12,920
I don't know if you caught earlier in the conversation,

1884
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:15,920
but what I was saying is if you listen to the research

1885
01:17:15,920 --> 01:17:17,600
in the fire service, the researchers,

1886
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:21,440
they haven't done any studies at all on this.

1887
01:17:21,440 --> 01:17:23,960
So this is why we're behind the eight ball,

1888
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:25,900
and this is why people ask me to see a data,

1889
01:17:25,900 --> 01:17:28,040
because I know you've tried and you can't find it

1890
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:29,320
because it doesn't exist.

1891
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:31,800
So we have to go to the military and these other places,

1892
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:33,480
but now we have some fire departments

1893
01:17:33,480 --> 01:17:34,880
that are starting to go.

1894
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:36,920
They would be your absolute best resource.

1895
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:38,760
And like I said, I know all of them,

1896
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:40,800
they are extremely excited about doing this

1897
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:42,420
for their own fire departments,

1898
01:17:42,420 --> 01:17:44,440
and every single one of them I've spoken to

1899
01:17:44,440 --> 01:17:47,240
is more than happy to help other departments get there too.

1900
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:50,560
So what I would say is Chief Bruder, Dixon Phillips,

1901
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:52,360
Matt Harrison, Brian O'Connell,

1902
01:17:52,360 --> 01:17:54,920
any of those guys reach out to them,

1903
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:57,960
ask them where they can sort the savings,

1904
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:00,880
but most importantly, then turn the mirror around,

1905
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:02,120
look at your own department

1906
01:18:02,120 --> 01:18:04,240
so you can say these are our numbers,

1907
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:05,760
because that's what's gonna sell it.

1908
01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:07,380
If you say, oh, this department did this

1909
01:18:07,380 --> 01:18:08,800
and this was their numbers,

1910
01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:10,480
you're not digging into your own department.

1911
01:18:10,480 --> 01:18:13,480
But if you can show that you're spending, for example,

1912
01:18:13,480 --> 01:18:16,200
$3 million on overtime filling vacancies

1913
01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:19,120
because of recruitment crisis and lack of retention,

1914
01:18:20,120 --> 01:18:22,040
right there and then you're talking about numbers

1915
01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:23,480
that will catch people's eyes.

1916
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:26,320
Two things, firstly, in a second,

1917
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:28,280
I'm gonna talk about 911 Telehealth,

1918
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:33,000
which I think is gonna help pre-hospital and hospital.

1919
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:34,000
But that being said,

1920
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,640
I think digging into the world of sleep medicine,

1921
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:41,280
it's gonna show the doctors and nurses, like I said,

1922
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:44,160
we all know that a lot of our physicians and nurses

1923
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:45,560
also struggle with a lot of these things,

1924
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:47,760
suicide and the weight gain and the heart attacks

1925
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:49,000
and all the things.

1926
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:51,600
So understanding the sleep medicine

1927
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:53,900
and understanding the research through this fight

1928
01:18:53,900 --> 01:18:55,280
that we're trying to do in the fire service

1929
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:59,280
absolutely has a place in the hospital setting as well.

1930
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:02,860
I'll give you a good example of why you need to challenge

1931
01:19:02,860 --> 01:19:04,900
the way things were done.

1932
01:19:04,900 --> 01:19:07,540
This is a true story, I've had many people verify it,

1933
01:19:07,540 --> 01:19:10,040
but you hear about the residents

1934
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:12,060
and the crazy hours that our junior doctors

1935
01:19:12,060 --> 01:19:15,600
or new physicians work in these hospitals.

1936
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:18,560
And the origin story of that is there was a,

1937
01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:21,040
I think it was a surgeon a long time ago,

1938
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:23,560
I think it was like 100 years ago.

1939
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:27,680
And he would be awake for hours and hours and hours

1940
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:30,140
and hours and so obviously when you're a young student,

1941
01:19:30,140 --> 01:19:33,360
you're like, well, I need to be awake with my physician,

1942
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:35,020
my teacher.

1943
01:19:35,020 --> 01:19:36,720
Well, years later, they discovered

1944
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:38,040
that he was a cocaine addict,

1945
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:39,380
very different time back then,

1946
01:19:39,380 --> 01:19:41,120
you could probably get it anywhere.

1947
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:43,680
So he was up for hours and hours

1948
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:46,160
because he was tweaking this whole time.

1949
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:49,880
And this became a standard for residents, junior doctors,

1950
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:52,400
depending on which country you're in for a long, long time.

1951
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:54,640
It's only recently they finally started unpacking

1952
01:19:54,640 --> 01:19:55,840
and going, wait a second,

1953
01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:58,880
we shouldn't be working 60, 70 hours a week

1954
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:01,840
for physicians that are making life or death decisions

1955
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:04,680
in an ER or in an operating theater.

1956
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:07,820
So absolutely this whole sleep conversation,

1957
01:20:07,820 --> 01:20:12,240
if I'm gonna want an ER nurse to be awake from 8 a.m.

1958
01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:15,240
to 8, sorry, from 8 p.m. to 8 a.m.,

1959
01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:18,200
then do I need to put more rest and recovery in their shift?

1960
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:20,860
If the corporate world has gone down

1961
01:20:20,860 --> 01:20:23,000
to a 32 hour work week,

1962
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,880
why shouldn't that apply to our law enforcement,

1963
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:28,160
our nurses, our corrections officers,

1964
01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:30,960
and all the other people that can't do a 24,

1965
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:33,180
they have to do 12s or 10s and 14s?

1966
01:20:33,180 --> 01:20:36,180
Well, what's bananas is this is the resource.

1967
01:20:36,180 --> 01:20:39,180
As I mentioned, there's some resources

1968
01:20:39,180 --> 01:20:41,060
that I've mentioned in this resource.

1969
01:20:41,060 --> 01:20:42,900
So you can go down an immense rabbit hole.

1970
01:20:42,900 --> 01:20:45,100
And I always tell people, if you're looking for even more,

1971
01:20:45,100 --> 01:20:48,380
you've listened to the 10 episodes on sleep deprivation

1972
01:20:48,380 --> 01:20:49,740
that I mentioned today

1973
01:20:49,740 --> 01:20:52,180
from all the branches of the military and sports,

1974
01:20:52,180 --> 01:20:55,180
I can give you another 30.

1975
01:20:55,180 --> 01:20:57,140
So the biggest thing is,

1976
01:20:57,140 --> 01:20:58,740
firstly, watch this from the beginning.

1977
01:20:58,740 --> 01:21:00,660
For everyone that's not aware, I'm recording this.

1978
01:21:00,660 --> 01:21:02,460
So I'm gonna post this on Twitter.

1979
01:21:02,460 --> 01:21:04,700
So I'm gonna post this as Tuesday's podcast,

1980
01:21:04,700 --> 01:21:07,260
and it will be in video format on YouTube as well.

1981
01:21:07,260 --> 01:21:08,140
So I'm gonna share it.

1982
01:21:08,140 --> 01:21:10,220
I don't know if it's too long for the socials,

1983
01:21:10,220 --> 01:21:12,380
but it will be on YouTube.

1984
01:21:12,380 --> 01:21:13,740
But this is the resource.

1985
01:21:13,740 --> 01:21:15,100
Hopefully this is something

1986
01:21:15,100 --> 01:21:16,460
that now will be a living document

1987
01:21:16,460 --> 01:21:18,020
that you can just say to your membership,

1988
01:21:18,020 --> 01:21:20,500
hey, we're emailing you this however long it's been.

1989
01:21:20,500 --> 01:21:24,020
I can't see a clock, an hour and a half conversation,

1990
01:21:24,020 --> 01:21:26,900
or not even conversation, this English guy yapping.

1991
01:21:26,900 --> 01:21:29,180
But everything that you were like, oh yeah,

1992
01:21:29,180 --> 01:21:31,560
but there's a solution to that.

1993
01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:33,480
And again, as someone pointed out,

1994
01:21:33,480 --> 01:21:34,900
anyone can go on a podcast.

1995
01:21:34,900 --> 01:21:38,100
I'm merely telling you what the experts are saying,

1996
01:21:38,100 --> 01:21:39,780
and I'm giving you all the resources

1997
01:21:39,780 --> 01:21:41,220
that you can dive into their work.

1998
01:21:41,220 --> 01:21:43,500
And these are the people that literally deal with this

1999
01:21:43,500 --> 01:21:46,020
for the military and the psychology

2000
01:21:46,020 --> 01:21:47,780
and all these other worlds.

2001
01:21:47,780 --> 01:21:51,700
So the answer is make them listen to this.

2002
01:21:51,700 --> 01:21:54,220
Put it around and say, look, this will appease your fears.

2003
01:21:54,220 --> 01:21:56,740
For the wages that, it's all urban legends.

2004
01:21:56,740 --> 01:21:59,100
When you unpack it, we've literally been

2005
01:21:59,100 --> 01:22:01,940
just making stuff up as we went along.

2006
01:22:01,940 --> 01:22:03,620
So will the money change?

2007
01:22:03,620 --> 01:22:06,300
No, like I said, your overtime rate will actually go up

2008
01:22:06,300 --> 01:22:08,620
and hopefully the mandatory overtime will go away.

2009
01:22:08,620 --> 01:22:11,120
And we are literally gonna revolutionize the fire service

2010
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:14,700
because if we had people lining up to do this job

2011
01:22:14,700 --> 01:22:19,280
and we took the top 25, 30%, only 10, 15 years ago,

2012
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:22,000
certainly 20 years ago when I joined the fire service,

2013
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:24,120
there's no reason why we can't get back there again.

2014
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:26,580
But this is a very smart generation.

2015
01:22:26,580 --> 01:22:28,860
Until we fix the things that are broken,

2016
01:22:28,860 --> 01:22:30,300
they're not gonna test for us.

2017
01:22:30,300 --> 01:22:33,780
So if they wanna stop working mandatory overtime,

2018
01:22:33,780 --> 01:22:36,140
if they wanna have more time with their loved ones,

2019
01:22:36,140 --> 01:22:38,940
take 90 minutes, put this in.

2020
01:22:38,940 --> 01:22:41,200
During a commute, there'll be an audio only version

2021
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:43,180
when I put this out on Tuesday

2022
01:22:43,180 --> 01:22:45,600
and just allow yourself to drop your guard,

2023
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:49,620
listen to the solutions and realize that this is just gonna

2024
01:22:49,620 --> 01:22:52,260
be a solution for so much.

2025
01:22:52,260 --> 01:22:54,140
And we're never gonna save everyone,

2026
01:22:54,140 --> 01:22:55,960
but we're gonna make an immense dent

2027
01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:57,540
into the medical and medical,

2028
01:22:57,540 --> 01:22:59,980
the mental and physical health crisis that we're in

2029
01:22:59,980 --> 01:23:00,820
because I don't know about you,

2030
01:23:00,820 --> 01:23:03,180
but I'm so tired of burying my friends.

2031
01:23:04,480 --> 01:23:06,780
So again, it depends on the dynamic.

2032
01:23:06,780 --> 01:23:10,260
Some people over hire a little bit to cover,

2033
01:23:10,260 --> 01:23:11,100
because this is the we haven't talked about,

2034
01:23:11,100 --> 01:23:12,580
we talk about Kelly days, well, obviously you've got

2035
01:23:12,580 --> 01:23:13,940
sick days, you've got vacation days,

2036
01:23:13,940 --> 01:23:17,020
you've got workman's comp, you've got all these holes.

2037
01:23:17,020 --> 01:23:20,300
So this is why I say every department needs to do

2038
01:23:20,300 --> 01:23:23,220
their own forensic look, look at the holes,

2039
01:23:23,220 --> 01:23:25,700
the staffing holes, who is filling those holes

2040
01:23:25,700 --> 01:23:28,300
at the moment, that time and a half will go away

2041
01:23:28,300 --> 01:23:30,980
if you had an actual full-time employee there.

2042
01:23:30,980 --> 01:23:33,220
But some have Kelly, some have don't Kelly,

2043
01:23:33,220 --> 01:23:35,540
as I mentioned earlier, some have a lot more vacation days

2044
01:23:35,540 --> 01:23:38,220
than others, so that's then a negotiation tool

2045
01:23:38,220 --> 01:23:42,060
if I'm gonna gain 30 extra days a year off

2046
01:23:42,060 --> 01:23:44,300
and I give away four vacation days,

2047
01:23:44,300 --> 01:23:46,820
I'm still winning immensely.

2048
01:23:46,820 --> 01:23:49,220
But it's literally department to department.

2049
01:23:49,220 --> 01:23:51,260
So the answer is, Randy, how many would you need?

2050
01:23:51,260 --> 01:23:55,220
So I would do the, ask for the forensic accounting on,

2051
01:23:55,220 --> 01:23:57,220
what are we spending on overtime?

2052
01:23:57,220 --> 01:23:59,540
What are we losing on recruits that leave our department,

2053
01:23:59,540 --> 01:24:00,980
if that's the case?

2054
01:24:00,980 --> 01:24:03,940
Are we offering, people are offering bonuses now,

2055
01:24:03,940 --> 01:24:05,460
like sign-on bonuses.

2056
01:24:05,460 --> 01:24:07,700
Like I mentioned at the beginning of the conversation,

2057
01:24:07,700 --> 01:24:10,020
I tested against a thousand people for 30 spots

2058
01:24:10,020 --> 01:24:11,820
and now we're giving sign-on bonuses

2059
01:24:11,820 --> 01:24:14,580
trying to attract people, so that would go away.

2060
01:24:14,580 --> 01:24:15,420
You know what I mean?

2061
01:24:15,420 --> 01:24:16,660
So there's a huge amount of money,

2062
01:24:16,660 --> 01:24:19,740
but again, if you missed part of this conversation,

2063
01:24:19,740 --> 01:24:21,900
when this goes out as a recording,

2064
01:24:21,900 --> 01:24:22,980
listen to it from the beginning

2065
01:24:22,980 --> 01:24:25,780
and I promise your questions will be answered.

2066
01:24:27,340 --> 01:24:29,140
So as I mentioned before,

2067
01:24:29,140 --> 01:24:31,900
it's, I haven't had a department yet that did it,

2068
01:24:31,900 --> 01:24:33,660
that said they needed an entire shift.

2069
01:24:33,660 --> 01:24:36,180
This is the kind of misnomer as well.

2070
01:24:36,180 --> 01:24:37,700
Like I said, you've either got Kelly days,

2071
01:24:37,700 --> 01:24:41,540
you've got up staffing, you've got extra people,

2072
01:24:41,540 --> 01:24:43,020
but it's a department by department.

2073
01:24:43,020 --> 01:24:44,540
But what you're really doing is again,

2074
01:24:44,540 --> 01:24:46,180
you have to do the accounting first,

2075
01:24:46,180 --> 01:24:48,700
you have to show them, this is where the money is.

2076
01:24:48,700 --> 01:24:50,820
They're overtime, they're retention,

2077
01:24:50,820 --> 01:24:52,140
they're wasted recruitment costs

2078
01:24:52,140 --> 01:24:54,260
on people that leave your department.

2079
01:24:54,260 --> 01:24:55,460
The workman's comp claims,

2080
01:24:55,460 --> 01:24:58,660
the lawsuits from exhausted firefighters,

2081
01:24:58,660 --> 01:25:00,940
figure out where that money is and show the department,

2082
01:25:00,940 --> 01:25:02,340
there is the money.

2083
01:25:02,340 --> 01:25:05,020
Now this budget year, you've already wasted this money.

2084
01:25:05,020 --> 01:25:07,740
People are already broken, we're understaffed,

2085
01:25:07,740 --> 01:25:08,660
the money's already there.

2086
01:25:08,660 --> 01:25:10,140
So this budget year, yes,

2087
01:25:10,140 --> 01:25:12,540
you are gonna have to put your big boy pants on,

2088
01:25:12,540 --> 01:25:15,020
ask for a little bit more of a budget,

2089
01:25:15,020 --> 01:25:18,420
but educating the people that you're asking it from,

2090
01:25:18,420 --> 01:25:20,500
I'm obviously talking from a city and county manager

2091
01:25:20,500 --> 01:25:21,860
point of view now.

2092
01:25:21,860 --> 01:25:24,100
This is just to get the staffing here

2093
01:25:24,100 --> 01:25:27,940
and all these costs are gonna reduce dramatically.

2094
01:25:27,940 --> 01:25:30,980
And again, I would use other departments as a resource.

2095
01:25:30,980 --> 01:25:31,820
How did they do it?

2096
01:25:31,820 --> 01:25:32,660
I didn't do it.

2097
01:25:32,660 --> 01:25:36,100
I'm James Gearing sitting in my dining room in my house,

2098
01:25:36,100 --> 01:25:39,260
but I've heard so many people that have now.

2099
01:25:39,260 --> 01:25:41,260
And then more and more people getting messages

2100
01:25:41,260 --> 01:25:44,260
and people saying they've just gone to it as an EMS agency.

2101
01:25:44,260 --> 01:25:47,060
They're small, but they just had the largest hiring class

2102
01:25:47,060 --> 01:25:50,820
they've ever had in their history after they went to 2472.

2103
01:25:50,820 --> 01:25:52,780
So use the resources of the people

2104
01:25:52,780 --> 01:25:53,620
that have already gone to it

2105
01:25:53,620 --> 01:25:55,060
in the episodes that I talked about,

2106
01:25:55,060 --> 01:25:56,620
but every single one of you,

2107
01:25:56,620 --> 01:25:58,060
you need to go to your department

2108
01:25:58,060 --> 01:26:00,100
and ask how much you're spending

2109
01:26:00,100 --> 01:26:02,740
on all these things that I mentioned.

2110
01:26:02,740 --> 01:26:04,100
That's where your budget is.

2111
01:26:04,100 --> 01:26:05,380
It's just downstream.

2112
01:26:05,380 --> 01:26:08,460
So once they can see this is gonna be the savings,

2113
01:26:08,460 --> 01:26:09,620
it's not gonna be all of it, of course,

2114
01:26:09,620 --> 01:26:13,020
but a massive dent, that's how you make the sell.

2115
01:26:13,020 --> 01:26:14,420
But yes, of course you're gonna have to come up

2116
01:26:14,420 --> 01:26:16,180
with a little bit money short-term,

2117
01:26:16,180 --> 01:26:18,340
but if you've got to build a new school in your town,

2118
01:26:18,340 --> 01:26:20,180
they're gonna have to put money out.

2119
01:26:20,180 --> 01:26:23,540
That's what cities and counties have to do sometimes.

2120
01:26:23,540 --> 01:26:24,460
Ah, great question.

2121
01:26:24,460 --> 01:26:27,100
Put that bar back up where it's supposed to be.

2122
01:26:27,100 --> 01:26:28,980
Now this is a double-edged sword.

2123
01:26:30,140 --> 01:26:32,780
We miss a lot of great candidates

2124
01:26:32,780 --> 01:26:35,620
because they're in a part of town

2125
01:26:35,620 --> 01:26:36,980
that maybe they don't have the money

2126
01:26:36,980 --> 01:26:38,420
to put themselves through fire academy,

2127
01:26:38,420 --> 01:26:39,260
as I was saying earlier.

2128
01:26:39,260 --> 01:26:42,060
So mentorship programs are phenomenal.

2129
01:26:42,060 --> 01:26:46,140
Chris Hickman, the Ocala Marion Mentorship Program,

2130
01:26:46,140 --> 01:26:47,060
absolutely amazing.

2131
01:26:47,060 --> 01:26:49,220
So you first, you go into your city,

2132
01:26:49,220 --> 01:26:51,580
figure out where it is underserved,

2133
01:26:51,580 --> 01:26:55,100
whether it's race or whatever, orientation,

2134
01:26:55,100 --> 01:26:56,580
whatever the thing is,

2135
01:26:56,580 --> 01:26:59,300
and then challenge those young people to rise up

2136
01:26:59,300 --> 01:27:00,940
and be excited about being a firefighter.

2137
01:27:00,940 --> 01:27:01,860
And then you pick the ones

2138
01:27:01,860 --> 01:27:04,060
that can actually reach that bar.

2139
01:27:04,060 --> 01:27:06,420
But then obviously the ones that are already certified,

2140
01:27:06,420 --> 01:27:09,420
they're already eligible,

2141
01:27:09,420 --> 01:27:11,420
just put your bar up high.

2142
01:27:11,420 --> 01:27:13,500
If you've got a thousand people, Anaheim did that.

2143
01:27:13,500 --> 01:27:17,660
And then they literally would lose 25% of every class

2144
01:27:17,660 --> 01:27:18,860
through attrition.

2145
01:27:18,860 --> 01:27:20,900
And it was terrifying being a pro-be for a year,

2146
01:27:20,900 --> 01:27:23,540
but you forged,

2147
01:27:23,540 --> 01:27:24,860
I went to excellence is the wrong word

2148
01:27:24,860 --> 01:27:26,020
because you're not excellent after a year,

2149
01:27:26,020 --> 01:27:29,780
but you forged the philosophy

2150
01:27:29,780 --> 01:27:33,620
of pursuing excellence as a firefighter.

2151
01:27:33,620 --> 01:27:36,220
And that was the entire kind of vibe.

2152
01:27:36,220 --> 01:27:39,820
And the real word I'm escaping, but yeah.

2153
01:27:39,820 --> 01:27:42,540
So if you have a lot of people, that's beautiful.

2154
01:27:42,540 --> 01:27:44,580
Now you just get to put that bar up high.

2155
01:27:44,580 --> 01:27:48,220
So have a solid written, have a solid physical.

2156
01:27:48,220 --> 01:27:50,660
If you do the CPAT, you don't have to have 10, 20,

2157
01:27:50,660 --> 01:27:53,980
you can ask your candidates to get to 9, 20.

2158
01:27:53,980 --> 01:27:54,820
You know what I mean?

2159
01:27:54,820 --> 01:27:57,380
So making it fair, mentoring people

2160
01:27:57,380 --> 01:28:00,260
that maybe aren't being accessed normally

2161
01:28:00,260 --> 01:28:03,460
that have barriers to entry and bringing them in as well.

2162
01:28:03,460 --> 01:28:05,540
But yeah, I mean, how exciting to have a load of people

2163
01:28:05,540 --> 01:28:06,580
wanting to work for you.

2164
01:28:06,580 --> 01:28:07,940
You get to choose the best.

2165
01:28:08,940 --> 01:28:09,860
That's a great question.

2166
01:28:09,860 --> 01:28:12,620
Chuck was on the show, absolute must listen as well.

2167
01:28:12,620 --> 01:28:14,620
A phenomenal leader in the fire service.

2168
01:28:15,540 --> 01:28:16,900
I just had that conversation

2169
01:28:16,900 --> 01:28:21,020
because I think Ocala are kind of mid contract at the moment.

2170
01:28:21,020 --> 01:28:24,580
So honestly, I think it's education, it's storytelling.

2171
01:28:24,580 --> 01:28:26,780
Like I said, we've told ourselves a lot of fairy tales.

2172
01:28:26,780 --> 01:28:28,340
If you were here at the beginning,

2173
01:28:29,340 --> 01:28:32,620
we had the, oh, I work one day on two days off

2174
01:28:32,620 --> 01:28:34,260
and we don't, we work three eight hour days

2175
01:28:34,260 --> 01:28:35,580
crammed together one day off.

2176
01:28:35,580 --> 01:28:37,180
So debunking these myths.

2177
01:28:37,180 --> 01:28:38,940
I'm gonna use this prop because I had it ready

2178
01:28:38,940 --> 01:28:40,580
and I forgot to use it.

2179
01:28:40,580 --> 01:28:44,180
There is a massive push at the moment for the 4896.

2180
01:28:44,180 --> 01:28:46,740
If you caught any of the sleep deprivation conversation,

2181
01:28:46,740 --> 01:28:48,300
you would understand immediately

2182
01:28:48,300 --> 01:28:50,180
why that's a horrible way to go.

2183
01:28:50,180 --> 01:28:52,500
But I wanted to illustrate, I literally paid 20 bucks

2184
01:28:52,500 --> 01:28:55,900
so I could buy these for this demonstration.

2185
01:28:55,900 --> 01:28:59,860
The 56 hour work week, 2448, 4896.

2186
01:29:02,820 --> 01:29:05,860
The Berkeley schedule, I worked in California.

2187
01:29:05,860 --> 01:29:07,500
Everyone spins the cube,

2188
01:29:07,500 --> 01:29:10,220
but no one asks why is the cube so big?

2189
01:29:10,220 --> 01:29:14,260
That is your 56 hour work week, that is your 42.

2190
01:29:14,260 --> 01:29:15,260
So this is the thing,

2191
01:29:15,260 --> 01:29:17,420
we've got to stop telling ourselves fairy tales,

2192
01:29:17,420 --> 01:29:20,060
stop arguing about shift patterns

2193
01:29:20,060 --> 01:29:22,300
that literally fix nothing

2194
01:29:22,300 --> 01:29:25,220
and actually fight for the one

2195
01:29:25,220 --> 01:29:27,500
that's actually gonna make a massive difference.

2196
01:29:27,500 --> 01:29:31,220
So mid-contract, I think it's just educating everyone

2197
01:29:31,220 --> 01:29:33,300
from the firefighter through to the county and cities.

2198
01:29:33,300 --> 01:29:35,780
So when the contract comes around,

2199
01:29:35,780 --> 01:29:36,940
you're not even negotiating,

2200
01:29:36,940 --> 01:29:39,540
it's a shoe-in because everyone understands by that point.

2201
01:29:39,540 --> 01:29:40,380
So this is the thing,

2202
01:29:40,380 --> 01:29:43,460
I mean, would it going through tomorrow be ideal?

2203
01:29:43,460 --> 01:29:45,660
Absolutely, because that means that tomorrow night,

2204
01:29:45,660 --> 01:29:47,980
people get to be in their bed an extra night

2205
01:29:47,980 --> 01:29:50,020
every shift cycle.

2206
01:29:50,020 --> 01:29:52,700
But next best thing is getting everything ready

2207
01:29:52,700 --> 01:29:54,980
so by the time you hit that contract negotiation,

2208
01:29:54,980 --> 01:29:57,940
everyone from the firefighter to the general public

2209
01:29:57,940 --> 01:29:59,540
understand why you're doing it.

2210
01:30:01,940 --> 01:30:05,340
I work three shifts and we always have the same pay periods.

2211
01:30:05,340 --> 01:30:09,300
So again, I'm not an expert, I'm not a financial guru,

2212
01:30:09,300 --> 01:30:11,460
but actually this is completely different tangent.

2213
01:30:11,460 --> 01:30:13,740
While we're on other solutions,

2214
01:30:14,900 --> 01:30:17,060
another thing that Sarah Jenke talked about

2215
01:30:17,060 --> 01:30:19,260
in the research where I think is genius

2216
01:30:19,260 --> 01:30:21,380
is also when do we have shift change?

2217
01:30:21,380 --> 01:30:23,540
So the conversation first should be the workweek.

2218
01:30:23,540 --> 01:30:26,380
So let's say hypothetically you're making,

2219
01:30:26,380 --> 01:30:28,860
so like Chuck, you're talking about mid-contract,

2220
01:30:28,860 --> 01:30:32,620
all right, we wanna go to 2472, we're all in agreement.

2221
01:30:33,500 --> 01:30:35,180
But the other thing is I've always come in

2222
01:30:35,180 --> 01:30:38,220
at like seven, 730, my whole career.

2223
01:30:38,220 --> 01:30:39,060
I've always lived,

2224
01:30:39,060 --> 01:30:40,580
because this is normally the case with a lot of us,

2225
01:30:40,580 --> 01:30:42,020
you can't afford to live where you work,

2226
01:30:42,020 --> 01:30:44,220
so you live quite a long way away.

2227
01:30:44,220 --> 01:30:48,100
So it was usually like a 70 mile commute,

2228
01:30:48,100 --> 01:30:50,620
hour, 15 hour and a half.

2229
01:30:50,620 --> 01:30:52,980
And so I'm getting up at five in the morning.

2230
01:30:52,980 --> 01:30:54,500
Well, the night before the shift

2231
01:30:54,500 --> 01:30:56,740
is often when we get the worst sleep.

2232
01:30:56,740 --> 01:30:58,780
So what I love as well, and this is,

2233
01:30:58,780 --> 01:31:00,140
and again, I can't speak from experience,

2234
01:31:00,140 --> 01:31:04,140
I've never done this, but coming in at midday.

2235
01:31:04,140 --> 01:31:06,700
So imagine this, you're already doing a 2472,

2236
01:31:06,700 --> 01:31:09,020
but in this contract agreement, you've also said,

2237
01:31:09,020 --> 01:31:11,260
we're gonna have shift change at midday.

2238
01:31:11,260 --> 01:31:15,300
The reason I say that, now I wake up,

2239
01:31:15,300 --> 01:31:17,620
I actually have breakfast with my son,

2240
01:31:17,620 --> 01:31:19,940
I get him off to school, then I get in my car,

2241
01:31:19,940 --> 01:31:23,420
I've missed rush hour, now I get to change shifts,

2242
01:31:23,420 --> 01:31:26,580
the person I relieve is also not in rush hour,

2243
01:31:26,580 --> 01:31:30,380
they get to go home, they're at home in time for dinner,

2244
01:31:30,380 --> 01:31:33,900
flip that round on its back, the person who's on shift

2245
01:31:33,900 --> 01:31:37,540
got their rear end handed to them all night,

2246
01:31:37,540 --> 01:31:39,380
and we don't have to wake him up at seven o'clock.

2247
01:31:39,380 --> 01:31:41,780
That blew my mind in most of the departments,

2248
01:31:41,780 --> 01:31:43,180
they would wake everyone up.

2249
01:31:43,180 --> 01:31:45,140
Anaheim was great, they would let us sleep,

2250
01:31:45,140 --> 01:31:48,220
and we would just take our partner's gear off,

2251
01:31:48,220 --> 01:31:50,300
and we put our gear on, and when they woke up,

2252
01:31:50,300 --> 01:31:51,220
if there's anything pertinent

2253
01:31:51,220 --> 01:31:52,900
they haven't written on the board, then they could tell us.

2254
01:31:52,900 --> 01:31:56,020
But to allow someone to sleep in,

2255
01:31:56,020 --> 01:31:57,900
if they've had a rough shift,

2256
01:31:57,900 --> 01:32:00,860
and then to allow the person who's oncoming

2257
01:32:00,860 --> 01:32:02,220
to not get there till midday,

2258
01:32:02,220 --> 01:32:03,580
I think that's genius as well.

2259
01:32:03,580 --> 01:32:05,980
I think that would be another game changer,

2260
01:32:05,980 --> 01:32:07,300
because the night before shift,

2261
01:32:07,300 --> 01:32:09,540
you would actually have a good night's sleep too.

2262
01:32:09,540 --> 01:32:11,740
As far as the pay periods, I don't think it would change,

2263
01:32:11,740 --> 01:32:13,780
but again, I would contact Hugh Bruder,

2264
01:32:13,780 --> 01:32:15,460
but I wanted to throw that in,

2265
01:32:15,460 --> 01:32:17,420
I think that's another genius solution.

2266
01:32:18,460 --> 01:32:21,540
I've been doing this, and there's been a change of guard,

2267
01:32:21,540 --> 01:32:23,580
and I'm hoping that this is now something

2268
01:32:23,580 --> 01:32:25,900
that they're addressing, but let's just talk about

2269
01:32:25,900 --> 01:32:29,300
when I was on, and I transitioned out five years ago,

2270
01:32:29,300 --> 01:32:31,300
I agree 100%.

2271
01:32:31,300 --> 01:32:33,420
What I understood, and I paid my dues

2272
01:32:33,420 --> 01:32:36,380
my whole career, what I understood as working conditions

2273
01:32:36,380 --> 01:32:38,660
was the number one thing when it came to unions.

2274
01:32:38,660 --> 01:32:41,460
And if you look at the trucking union, the shipping union,

2275
01:32:41,460 --> 01:32:44,860
the pilots union, I mean, all those,

2276
01:32:44,860 --> 01:32:47,700
they have all this time, you can't fly,

2277
01:32:47,700 --> 01:32:49,340
you need this amount of rest.

2278
01:32:49,340 --> 01:32:51,860
So the work week was very important.

2279
01:32:53,220 --> 01:32:55,700
And I just don't understand why it hasn't,

2280
01:32:55,700 --> 01:32:57,100
especially, and here's what was interesting,

2281
01:32:57,100 --> 01:32:58,660
I actually was just Googling it,

2282
01:32:58,660 --> 01:33:01,980
because I was, this is constantly in my mind.

2283
01:33:01,980 --> 01:33:04,980
Fairfax, Virginia, where a lot of our guys from IFF

2284
01:33:04,980 --> 01:33:07,060
were when I was in as a firefighter,

2285
01:33:07,060 --> 01:33:08,980
the leadership, IFF leadership,

2286
01:33:08,980 --> 01:33:11,500
they still work 56 hours to this day.

2287
01:33:11,500 --> 01:33:13,340
So they didn't even have that conversation

2288
01:33:13,340 --> 01:33:14,180
with their own department,

2289
01:33:14,180 --> 01:33:18,340
even though the Northeast was predominantly 2472.

2290
01:33:18,340 --> 01:33:20,860
So if someone has a great answer,

2291
01:33:20,860 --> 01:33:23,340
if someone's progressive in the IFF leadership,

2292
01:33:23,340 --> 01:33:25,780
that they wanna lead this charge nationally,

2293
01:33:25,780 --> 01:33:27,420
because I think it should be an industry standard.

2294
01:33:27,420 --> 01:33:28,980
And as I said at the very beginning,

2295
01:33:28,980 --> 01:33:31,300
of course there will be quiet fire departments

2296
01:33:31,300 --> 01:33:34,460
or fire stations where people already aren't doing a lot,

2297
01:33:34,460 --> 01:33:36,980
but they're still away from their family.

2298
01:33:36,980 --> 01:33:39,900
Like I went around the world with a group of Navy SEALs

2299
01:33:39,900 --> 01:33:43,700
and triathletes called Seven X about 18 months ago.

2300
01:33:43,700 --> 01:33:46,300
And so I got to see, I literally live on a plane for,

2301
01:33:46,300 --> 01:33:47,860
I think we were on the plane for nine days

2302
01:33:47,860 --> 01:33:48,780
while we went around the world

2303
01:33:48,780 --> 01:33:51,900
and these guys ran marathons on every continent.

2304
01:33:51,900 --> 01:33:54,900
And so you saw what crew rest looks like.

2305
01:33:54,900 --> 01:33:57,460
Now that crew was sleeping on that plane,

2306
01:33:57,460 --> 01:33:59,020
but they weren't having their hours docked

2307
01:33:59,020 --> 01:33:59,860
where they were sleeping.

2308
01:33:59,860 --> 01:34:01,540
They weren't telling them to do busy work

2309
01:34:01,540 --> 01:34:03,860
and go check hydrants and all that stuff.

2310
01:34:03,860 --> 01:34:06,620
They have to be asleep, that's stipulation.

2311
01:34:07,580 --> 01:34:10,740
So if all these other industries are okay

2312
01:34:10,740 --> 01:34:12,660
with their people having rest and recovery,

2313
01:34:12,660 --> 01:34:14,900
why isn't there this massive outcry

2314
01:34:14,900 --> 01:34:16,180
when it comes to the fire service,

2315
01:34:16,180 --> 01:34:18,860
especially when we have the immense physical

2316
01:34:18,860 --> 01:34:19,940
and mental health crisis?

2317
01:34:19,940 --> 01:34:24,100
So I'm not, new leadership, new people now,

2318
01:34:24,100 --> 01:34:26,420
I know it's more Boston focused.

2319
01:34:26,420 --> 01:34:29,020
I really hope this becomes a massive conversation.

2320
01:34:29,020 --> 01:34:30,820
I haven't heard anything.

2321
01:34:30,820 --> 01:34:33,380
I've been doing this for eight years

2322
01:34:33,380 --> 01:34:37,500
from any of the letter organizations in the fire service,

2323
01:34:37,500 --> 01:34:40,540
even though, like I said, I paid my dues for a long time,

2324
01:34:40,540 --> 01:34:42,700
but what an opportunity to change now.

2325
01:34:42,700 --> 01:34:44,940
If you haven't yet, let's start the conversation.

2326
01:34:44,940 --> 01:34:46,020
So I hope they do.

2327
01:34:47,300 --> 01:34:49,420
Absolutely, I did talk about it earlier, Ryan,

2328
01:34:49,420 --> 01:34:51,500
but I will just quickly go over it again.

2329
01:34:51,500 --> 01:34:53,820
Chief Hugh Bruder, city of Boynton Beach,

2330
01:34:53,820 --> 01:34:55,580
went to it 18 months ago.

2331
01:34:55,580 --> 01:34:58,860
You can listen to him on episode 854.

2332
01:34:58,860 --> 01:35:01,140
Dixon Phillips, one of the union leadership

2333
01:35:01,140 --> 01:35:05,900
in Pasco County, Florida, episode 879.

2334
01:35:05,900 --> 01:35:07,980
Matt Harrison and Brian O'Connell

2335
01:35:07,980 --> 01:35:11,860
from the city of Gainesville that just went to it Monday,

2336
01:35:11,860 --> 01:35:13,100
episode 942.

2337
01:35:13,100 --> 01:35:15,500
So you'll find all their kind of contact information there.

2338
01:35:15,500 --> 01:35:18,660
And then Dixon, Pasco County are actually transitioning

2339
01:35:18,660 --> 01:35:20,100
fully in 2026.

2340
01:35:20,100 --> 01:35:21,860
So it's another interesting one.

2341
01:35:21,860 --> 01:35:24,460
You've got small, mid and large department.

2342
01:35:24,460 --> 01:35:26,140
You've got some that have been doing it for a while,

2343
01:35:26,140 --> 01:35:27,900
one that just went and one that's going to it.

2344
01:35:27,900 --> 01:35:32,900
So it's a pretty comprehensive perspective of how to

2345
01:35:33,300 --> 01:35:34,820
and the hurdles.

2346
01:35:34,820 --> 01:35:37,700
So, but I'm relaying a lot of the solutions

2347
01:35:37,700 --> 01:35:39,300
that they gave in this Q&A to make it

2348
01:35:39,300 --> 01:35:43,020
in one compact video session.

2349
01:35:43,900 --> 01:35:44,820
Well, here's the thing.

2350
01:35:44,820 --> 01:35:46,980
I mean, firstly, what we signed up for,

2351
01:35:46,980 --> 01:35:50,420
because in Fire Academy, you became,

2352
01:35:50,420 --> 01:35:52,580
let me put it this way, you became a firefighter

2353
01:35:52,580 --> 01:35:54,180
in the Fire Academy.

2354
01:35:54,180 --> 01:35:55,820
They never talked about your work week.

2355
01:35:55,820 --> 01:35:58,820
So what you signed up for was to be a firefighter

2356
01:35:58,820 --> 01:36:00,380
and an EMT or a paramedic.

2357
01:36:00,380 --> 01:36:01,780
And I adore this profession,

2358
01:36:01,780 --> 01:36:04,420
which is why six years later, I'm still fighting for it.

2359
01:36:05,660 --> 01:36:07,380
But that's not what you signed up for.

2360
01:36:07,380 --> 01:36:09,620
That's the working conditions.

2361
01:36:09,620 --> 01:36:11,180
And as I touched on earlier,

2362
01:36:11,180 --> 01:36:13,260
we used to send children up chimneys

2363
01:36:13,260 --> 01:36:15,180
and having them work in factories.

2364
01:36:15,180 --> 01:36:16,260
Well, it's what we've always done.

2365
01:36:16,260 --> 01:36:19,260
So what you signed up for doesn't mean that it's right.

2366
01:36:19,260 --> 01:36:22,380
And you can't justify working 40 hours

2367
01:36:22,380 --> 01:36:23,820
and then pointing someone and say,

2368
01:36:23,820 --> 01:36:25,700
well, that's what you signed up for.

2369
01:36:25,700 --> 01:36:27,780
But then again, the biggest thing,

2370
01:36:27,780 --> 01:36:30,700
if they have no heart, and I hope people out there do,

2371
01:36:30,700 --> 01:36:34,340
but let's just say they're unable to access it,

2372
01:36:34,340 --> 01:36:35,780
is the financial savings.

2373
01:36:35,780 --> 01:36:37,920
Well, the way that you're doing it now

2374
01:36:37,920 --> 01:36:40,300
is literally destroying the fire department

2375
01:36:40,300 --> 01:36:42,780
and we can barely recruit anyone.

2376
01:36:42,780 --> 01:36:45,020
And you will be known as the commissioner

2377
01:36:45,020 --> 01:36:48,860
who was at the helm, who fought this and resisted it.

2378
01:36:48,860 --> 01:36:51,100
And you'll be known as the one

2379
01:36:51,100 --> 01:36:52,900
who was there when the ship sank.

2380
01:36:52,900 --> 01:36:56,040
Or you can progressively actually invest in your people,

2381
01:36:56,040 --> 01:36:58,540
fix this, and you'll be known as one of the people

2382
01:36:58,540 --> 01:37:00,620
that made this a destination fire department,

2383
01:37:00,620 --> 01:37:03,040
that made the city safer for its residents.

2384
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:04,700
You can be the hero.

2385
01:37:04,700 --> 01:37:07,660
But it's what you signed up for is not,

2386
01:37:07,660 --> 01:37:10,820
because I could take my firefighter certification

2387
01:37:10,820 --> 01:37:13,740
and go to Boca Raton or the city of Boynton Beach,

2388
01:37:13,740 --> 01:37:15,940
and I signed up for a 42-hour work week.

2389
01:37:15,940 --> 01:37:18,340
It just so happens that yours is a 56.

2390
01:37:18,340 --> 01:37:20,140
That's not what you signed up for.

2391
01:37:20,140 --> 01:37:22,060
And if you show them that there's

2392
01:37:22,060 --> 01:37:24,620
many, many fire departments that work 42,

2393
01:37:24,620 --> 01:37:26,780
and then you relay these other ones

2394
01:37:26,780 --> 01:37:29,020
and tell them that there is a revolution,

2395
01:37:29,020 --> 01:37:31,820
and if the departments around you go to it and you don't,

2396
01:37:31,820 --> 01:37:33,860
you won't be able to hire anyone,

2397
01:37:33,860 --> 01:37:35,240
maybe that'll be enough.

2398
01:37:35,240 --> 01:37:36,700
But I mean, sadly, let's be honest as well,

2399
01:37:36,700 --> 01:37:37,940
there are some people in these positions

2400
01:37:37,940 --> 01:37:39,260
that just don't care.

2401
01:37:39,260 --> 01:37:40,480
I got mine.

2402
01:37:40,480 --> 01:37:42,340
So you gotta find everyone else

2403
01:37:42,340 --> 01:37:43,620
and create that groundswell.

2404
01:37:43,620 --> 01:37:46,840
But you're getting to the point of heartlessness now

2405
01:37:46,840 --> 01:37:48,180
if that's their only response,

2406
01:37:48,180 --> 01:37:50,420
because there's no sense behind it whatsoever.

2407
01:37:50,420 --> 01:37:52,400
Yeah, I'm just gonna wrap it up.

2408
01:37:52,400 --> 01:37:53,680
So two things.

2409
01:37:53,680 --> 01:37:55,920
If you wanna learn more, this isn't a sales pitch,

2410
01:37:55,920 --> 01:37:57,600
but I did write a book four years ago

2411
01:37:57,600 --> 01:38:00,120
called One More Life, Life, Death, and Humanity

2412
01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:01,840
Through the Eyes of a Firefighter.

2413
01:38:01,840 --> 01:38:04,000
The only reason I say that, it's not a biography.

2414
01:38:04,000 --> 01:38:07,140
I will underline this again.

2415
01:38:07,140 --> 01:38:07,980
I am you.

2416
01:38:07,980 --> 01:38:09,320
I am a regular firefighter.

2417
01:38:09,320 --> 01:38:11,080
I wasn't at any big event.

2418
01:38:11,080 --> 01:38:13,480
I didn't do anything heroic.

2419
01:38:13,480 --> 01:38:15,160
Just did what we all did.

2420
01:38:15,160 --> 01:38:17,240
But what I did is took a bunch of my stories

2421
01:38:17,240 --> 01:38:20,040
from my life and career in each chapter

2422
01:38:20,040 --> 01:38:22,120
as like a short story, but then as a takeaway

2423
01:38:22,120 --> 01:38:24,320
and explain sleep deprivation, mental health,

2424
01:38:24,320 --> 01:38:27,920
suicide, injuries, the obesity crisis.

2425
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:30,360
So it's just, well, I don't understand.

2426
01:38:30,360 --> 01:38:31,280
It's another layer.

2427
01:38:31,280 --> 01:38:34,080
If people read, give them that book and say,

2428
01:38:34,080 --> 01:38:35,000
this is what we do.

2429
01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:36,280
This is what it actually looks like

2430
01:38:36,280 --> 01:38:38,960
to be a firefighter paramedic in America.

2431
01:38:38,960 --> 01:38:40,740
So that's a resource for you.

2432
01:38:40,740 --> 01:38:43,380
The podcast Behind the Shield is completely free.

2433
01:38:43,380 --> 01:38:46,280
You have to pay for the book because they have to print it,

2434
01:38:46,280 --> 01:38:48,520
but it's very, very cheap on Amazon.

2435
01:38:48,520 --> 01:38:51,040
But yeah, the podcast is almost a thousand episodes now

2436
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:52,800
Behind the Shield.

2437
01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:54,160
There's, I wanna touch on one thing

2438
01:38:54,160 --> 01:38:56,760
before I let you guys go that I think is extremely exciting.

2439
01:38:56,760 --> 01:38:58,120
I'm just gonna sow a little seed.

2440
01:38:58,120 --> 01:39:00,080
I'm not gonna tell you the whole thing.

2441
01:39:00,080 --> 01:39:05,080
I have just discovered an incredible national resource

2442
01:39:05,280 --> 01:39:09,920
that is doing amazing things integrating telehealth

2443
01:39:09,920 --> 01:39:11,360
into the 911 system.

2444
01:39:11,360 --> 01:39:13,340
And this is not the community paramedic.

2445
01:39:13,340 --> 01:39:16,240
This is literally you call 911, you,

2446
01:39:16,240 --> 01:39:18,880
if it's obviously through the EMD

2447
01:39:18,880 --> 01:39:21,800
that you've realized it's a somewhat non-emergent call,

2448
01:39:21,800 --> 01:39:25,400
you then get the option to do a video conference

2449
01:39:25,400 --> 01:39:27,760
with the ER physician or a nurse practitioner.

2450
01:39:27,760 --> 01:39:29,080
They can write prescriptions.

2451
01:39:29,080 --> 01:39:31,300
They can set up urgent care clinic appointments.

2452
01:39:31,300 --> 01:39:34,640
They can set up Ubers and lifts to get you to and from.

2453
01:39:34,640 --> 01:39:37,160
And so all the calls that they should never have called us

2454
01:39:37,160 --> 01:39:40,600
in the first place, there's another incredible resource

2455
01:39:40,600 --> 01:39:41,680
that I'm gonna be bringing to you

2456
01:39:41,680 --> 01:39:43,400
that is gonna address that as well.

2457
01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:45,800
So imagine if we could get the work week

2458
01:39:45,800 --> 01:39:49,000
where it needs to be, eliminate some of the calls that,

2459
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:51,960
let's be honest, it's benefiting everyone.

2460
01:39:51,960 --> 01:39:53,480
What's gonna happen is the person's gonna get

2461
01:39:53,480 --> 01:39:56,080
a lot smaller bill, because they're not gonna enter an ER.

2462
01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:59,200
An ER bed is gonna stay open for someone who's really ill

2463
01:39:59,200 --> 01:40:00,760
and you guys won't even get called.

2464
01:40:00,760 --> 01:40:02,440
That won't even become a 911 for you.

2465
01:40:02,440 --> 01:40:03,680
You won't get toned out.

2466
01:40:03,680 --> 01:40:05,280
So it's a win, win, win.

2467
01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:08,180
So if you can address the work week

2468
01:40:08,180 --> 01:40:10,480
and eliminate some of these calls

2469
01:40:10,480 --> 01:40:12,880
and be available for that stroke,

2470
01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:15,600
that horrendous accident, that structure fire,

2471
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:17,360
which we should be doing, again,

2472
01:40:17,360 --> 01:40:20,720
that's what we signed up for, not running as I had.

2473
01:40:20,720 --> 01:40:22,800
Oh, my dentures, I don't like the taste of them.

2474
01:40:22,800 --> 01:40:24,480
That's not a 911 call.

2475
01:40:24,480 --> 01:40:28,020
So if we can do it both sides, I mean, man,

2476
01:40:28,020 --> 01:40:29,560
oh my God, we make such an impact.

2477
01:40:29,560 --> 01:40:30,960
And then we could set that bar high.

2478
01:40:30,960 --> 01:40:34,480
People have time to work out, to train, to eat together,

2479
01:40:34,480 --> 01:40:38,440
to spend more time talking around the kitchen table,

2480
01:40:38,440 --> 01:40:39,920
offloading some of the trauma.

2481
01:40:39,920 --> 01:40:41,040
It would be incredible.

2482
01:40:41,040 --> 01:40:43,280
So just keep your eye on that.

2483
01:40:43,280 --> 01:40:45,960
The telehealth conversation, I'll be announcing that.

2484
01:40:45,960 --> 01:40:47,760
So that is the next thing.

2485
01:40:47,760 --> 01:40:49,280
But I'm gonna wrap this up.

2486
01:40:49,280 --> 01:40:51,200
I've been talking a lot longer than I thought

2487
01:40:51,200 --> 01:40:52,660
I could even possibly do it,

2488
01:40:52,660 --> 01:40:57,660
but I hope it's brought solutions to most of the questions.

2489
01:40:57,960 --> 01:40:59,000
Use this as a resource.

2490
01:40:59,000 --> 01:41:00,400
Like I said, once this is recorded,

2491
01:41:00,400 --> 01:41:01,520
I'll be putting it out on Tuesday,

2492
01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:03,920
and then it will be out for you to share completely for free.

2493
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:05,620
Give it to whoever you want.

2494
01:41:05,620 --> 01:41:07,660
And then feel free, obviously, to message me.

2495
01:41:07,660 --> 01:41:09,560
But I would honestly recommend the departments

2496
01:41:09,560 --> 01:41:11,680
that have already gone or are about to go,

2497
01:41:11,680 --> 01:41:14,800
they're the SMEs, they're the ones that, you know,

2498
01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:19,800
but if you find out the bleeding side financially

2499
01:41:20,680 --> 01:41:23,920
of your department, that is your ammunition for this.

2500
01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:25,680
You know, the science and the empathy

2501
01:41:25,680 --> 01:41:28,180
and the compassion side and saving fire, fire lives,

2502
01:41:28,180 --> 01:41:30,040
that should move your people.

2503
01:41:30,040 --> 01:41:32,640
The financial savings should move your cities and counties,

2504
01:41:32,640 --> 01:41:35,040
and together, you should have everything you need

2505
01:41:35,040 --> 01:41:36,380
to make this happen.

2506
01:41:36,380 --> 01:41:38,280
So thank you so much.

2507
01:41:38,280 --> 01:41:41,240
I hope this helps, and signing out.

2508
01:41:41,240 --> 01:41:42,080
Thank you.