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Now to learn more about Thorn, go to episode 323 of the Behind the Shield podcast with

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Joel Titoro and Wes Barnett.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

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the show, former veteran police officer, wrestler and MMA fighter, JP McMichael.

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Now what makes JP's story even more powerful is he was one of the responders to the Pentagon

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on 9-11, a perspective that few of us have ever heard.

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So in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from his journey into law enforcement,

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losing friends to suicide, his project, The Catalyst of Change, the incredible growth

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he found through the Struggle Well program, Operation Enduring Warrior and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and

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leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of almost 1000 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

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I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you, JP McMichael.

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Enjoy.

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Well JP, I want to start by saying two things.

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Firstly, thank you to Operation Enduring Warrior who we will discuss in a little while, but

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they were the ones that brought us together and we got to sit side by side a few months

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ago.

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And secondly, I want to welcome you to the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Thank you.

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My pleasure.

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So where on planet earth we finding you this afternoon?

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I am in Leesburg, Virginia right now at home.

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I just got back in from I was out in New York and out in Idaho and got caught up in the

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Delta debacle that happened coming back.

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So what was that?

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I'm not familiar with it.

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And all the planes, their security system updated or something and all the planes got

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delayed and so I was able to fly out of Idaho to Atlanta and then that flight got canceled.

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We got booked on another flight.

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That flight got canceled.

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I ended up spending, I think it was two days down in Atlanta.

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They had no hotel rooms around there.

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There was no cars left at the airport.

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And so I finally was able to get a car from in town further out and then drive back home

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from there.

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But it was a complete mess.

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Yeah.

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I remember now the Microsoft crash, wasn't it?

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Yeah, that's horrendous.

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I was glad I wasn't traveling.

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I did a lot of traveling recently, so I dodged the bullet on that one.

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Yeah.

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All right.

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Well, then very first question as far as your timeline, tell me where you were born and

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tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings?

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All right.

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So I was born in Washington, D.C. and grew up in Maryland.

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Mom and dad, I have a younger sister who is doing a secret squirrel job that she can't

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talk about.

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Her kids always talk about she's a spy, but she does something with computers, but I have

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no idea what it is.

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My dad was a plumber, ended up owning his own business.

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And then my mom worked at a bank early on, and then she ended up hurting her back when

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I was probably like 10 and ended up staying home after that and just taking care of me

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and my sister.

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And I had to grow up very early with all that going on and help her out around the house

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because she couldn't do a lot.

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It's not like nowadays where you have surgery and you're walking around two hours later,

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like she was in the hospital for several weeks and then at home on bed rest and stuff like

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that.

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But it was for the most part a good, good childhood.

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My dad had some struggles along the way and demons that he battled with alcohol and stuff.

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And so that was a tough part of in high school and things like that.

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But like I said, it made me grow up earlier.

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I started working when I was 12 years old and worked all through high school and after

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that and have been working up to last November every day since I was 12.

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So are you sure your sister wasn't responsible for the crash?

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She might have been probably sitting home laughing.

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You never know these days.

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No, no, you don't.

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What about sports and athletics?

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What were you doing and playing when you were the school age?

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So younger, I couldn't do much because I was a big kid.

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I was thinking seventh, seventh grade.

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I was probably about same height that I am now.

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Six, two, six, three, um, weighed about 200 pounds.

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So football was out of the, you know, out of the realm at a young age.

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I ended up playing football when I got into high school for a couple of years and wrestled

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and did track and field the shot, putting discus and was not a big fan of team sports.

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I liked having, um, like wrestling where you competed on your own and it was up to you

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as to what you did.

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And that kind of, I had my own coach in high school who I used to go over and nowadays

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you could never do it, but I used to go over and wrestle at his house and he actually had

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a professional wrestling ring set up in his basement.

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So that was how I got into all that.

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And he was a, he was an older guy, worked at NASA, but just tough as nails and like,

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didn't let you just kind of scoot through stuff.

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He really busted your butt and got you to work.

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And, um, that was kind of my outlet for the stuff that was going on with my dad.

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Um, I did sports and I worked, I was not at home a lot.

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Um, I would get up in the morning, go to school practices or whatever.

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And when I wasn't practicing or playing, I was at work right after school.

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So,

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I can relate to the team element.

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I played for a field hockey team in university and college.

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Um, and I know I forget, like it, there was one game where I had made a mistake and, and

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they said, you've either got to drink the entire top shelf of liquor or you've got to

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wear a dress for the day.

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And I'm like, or option C, I could just not play this stupid game anymore.

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So I went and just went in more into the martial arts.

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Um, and I loved, I loved the, uh, accountability and ownership that you need when it's just

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you and an opponent on the mat, because you might be the rock star in a gate in a team

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or you might be the weak link or you might have a good game or a bad game.

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And you know, there is a lot of kind of blaming in the less cohesive teams, but when you're

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standing in front of someone, you know, especially in a combat sport, when you, when you done,

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I mean, even, even if it goes to the judges, I remember sometimes if it was close, I'm

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like, no, that's still not good enough.

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Even if I won, I need to make sure that the judges don't even have a part in it.

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If I can convincingly beat someone, then I know my training has worked.

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So I, like yourself, I love that kind of element of the individual sports.

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Well, especially now, like you watch the fighters now, and I was just listening to your show

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on the way up to New York and listening to a Rashad Evans episode who that, that guy's

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amazing, but you watch these fights now and these judges, it's like, they don't even know

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what they're looking at, so you don't want to leave it in their hands.

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You want to have it up to you, you want to work for it.

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And I've not having my dad around for several years during high school.

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That kind of became my thing.

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It was like, I have to work hard.

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I have to do the best that I can for me because nobody's helping me.

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Nobody's going to come get me.

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And I've got to prove, because he would tell me at times, like, you're never going to amount

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to anything, you're not going to do this, you're not going to do that.

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And my dad was a little short guy, so it's hard for me to say there was verbal abuse

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there because he was so tiny, but he would constantly tell me, like, you're never going

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to amount to anything, you're not going to do this, you're not going to do that.

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And that played in my head a lot.

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So it was always, I have to prove him wrong.

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And he had passed away back in 2020, right after COVID started.

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And he called me three days before because I had just, I forget what I was doing at work.

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I got made like the COVID coordinator at the department.

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He called me and said how proud he was of me and not to let the job run me into the

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ground.

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And I almost think he knew what was coming.

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He had a heart attack four days later and died.

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And I almost think he knew what was coming and wanted me to be aware of that because

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we had just in the last few years before that kind of our bridge had been built back up.

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This multi-generational trauma theme has been coming up so often.

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I just finished literally two days ago, finished my book.

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Then there's a big theme of that in the second book now.

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And you know, when you hear a lot of these interviews, it's, you know, this is how my

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parents were, oh, wow, that's probably contributed to why you struggled later on.

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But what's interesting is then when you ask, well, what about their parents?

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Tell me about them.

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So what about the household that you grew up in?

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Did you ever hear about that?

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Yep.

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Both sides.

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Alcoholic grandfathers.

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My grandmother on my mother's side was awesome.

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My grandmother on my dad's mom, I didn't meet her until I was 16.

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She had not been in the scene and then came back and she was awesome as well.

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Got to hear a lot of her story about how everything happened where she left.

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His dad, I was not a fan of.

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I remember at a young age, at 12 again, I think it was 12, 11, 12 years old, his dad

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was treating him like he used to treat me.

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Screaming at him, yelling at him.

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And I had to stand up for my dad.

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So it's easy for me to look back now and see how everything kind of trickled down, especially

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I know we're going to talk about Boulder Crest later, going through struggle well and stuff

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like that and having my eyes open to that generational thing and how everything kind

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of trickles downhill and you have to be the one to draw the line and stop it.

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So I can look back now.

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At that point, it wasn't easy for me to see it, but now I can look back and I see a lot

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of the struggles that my dad had and I see a lot of qualities in him, in me, since he's

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died that I spent a lot of my life pushing his stuff away and saying, oh, I don't want

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to be like him.

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He taught me how not to do things when a lot of what he was doing was a lot of the same

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qualities that I have.

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It's such an important conversation because I don't think it's, you know, that there's

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this feeling of, oh, well, you know, my parents and my grandparents were alcoholics, so I'm

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doomed to be the same.

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And I disagree completely.

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Of course, there's an epigenetic element to it.

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If you have, you know, as an alcoholic, then you have children and, you know, that's obviously

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going to have an effect.

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But just the same way as alcoholism can turn your genes one way, they can turn it the other

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way and it's the same with behaviors.

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But until we look back and have this multi-generational conversation, how can you stop that next domino

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from falling if you haven't even acknowledged what's going on?

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So I think it's an exciting conversation.

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It brings hope to this multi-generational element.

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But more often than not, you know, for example, the greatest generation, a lot of times these

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men and women came back from World War II and they were broken.

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And I mean that out of compassion.

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How could they not be?

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And so that's buried down.

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I mean, oh, no, they were amazing.

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They just rolled up their sleeves and went back to work.

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Yeah, they did.

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But they were suffering.

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They were here and they were violent and, you know, alcoholics and all these other things.

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That needs to be addressed because they had no support when they came home.

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We weren't talking about mental health in 1946.

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So, you know, I think it's so great that we can finally start these conversations and

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look back and go, this doesn't have to keep going.

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We can fix this.

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Yeah, I had an opportunity.

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We worked a World War II memorial opening in D.C. and did the security for that and

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getting to sit with those folks and hear their stories and just amazing, amazing.

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But as I, you know, as my career went on and I started to get more involved with the PTSD

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stuff and looking at that and doing research on it, then my eyes got open to like you're

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saying, yeah, they're tough and they're doing this, but there's a lot going on inside and

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they're bottling it up and not handling it and everything else is going on.

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I heard there was a quote one time that tears unshed cause organs to weep.

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And that was, yeah.

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I just shared a video of a sculpture that is about to go into the World War I Memorial

234
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Museum in D.C.

235
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And it was absolutely beautiful.

236
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This sculpture must be, I mean, 50 feet long.

237
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And it's obviously all these guys in the trenches and there's some nurses amongst them and so

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powerful.

239
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So next time I'm up there, I want to make sure I go and see that.

240
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Yeah.

241
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:44,160
Well, that's like conversations that I have with my son and my daughter too about who

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00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,560
you're looking up to as role models.

243
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,360
You know, I've got to meet a lot of people.

244
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I've been very fortunate in my life with the things that have happened, but.

245
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I don't have a lot of like I don't run around chasing sports players and stuff like that

246
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and movie stars and musicians and you meet them and they're nice and whatever.

247
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But it's the men and women that are out there that defend the country that put on a uniform

248
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our nurses, our teachers, those people that are doing the hard work is who I try to teach

249
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them like look up to those folks.

250
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Yeah, it's great that these guys and girls are out doing, you know, playing basketball

251
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and whatever.

252
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They're awesome.

253
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But look to the people that are doing the real work that are making changes in people's

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lives and don't run around, you know, chasing musicians and movie stars and things like

255
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that and trying to live up to their stuff.

256
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Because you see that so much because of social media now with the young people that they

257
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want to be like this or they want to do this and that.

258
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And they kind of cut everything else off from their life and don't look at like I've got

259
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to do the work instead of foundation beneath that.

260
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And if I can get to that level, it's great.

261
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But I need to get the foundation built first.

262
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I think there's a real push to be a specialist and not a generalist.

263
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So if someone's going to enjoys playing basketball, oh, well, I need to be in the NBA rather than

264
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go you might be that point, whatever percent, or you might just really enjoy playing basketball.

265
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So play basketball and then play soccer and then you know what I mean?

266
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And just play the things.

267
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:30,840
But I think this kind of elitism that's presented to us through Instagram and some of these

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other things is like, oh, no, I need to be the best in the world.

269
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And you don't, you know, you might be you might find yourself there one day or you might

270
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just really enjoy surfing, but you're not Kelly Slater.

271
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And that's OK, too.

272
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Well, and it can be I think the thing that gets missed a lot is.

273
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,480
They don't see all the work that you look at like a Michael Jordan or a Steph Curry.

274
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They don't see all the work that's put into it.

275
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Rashad Evans that they had to do to lay that foundation.

276
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And there was things that came along the way that put them in the position area and that

277
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they got lucky breaks.

278
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There's plenty of people out there that are super talented and have those skills and they

279
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never get those opportunities or they don't chase them properly.

280
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:16,880
Absolutely.

281
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,800
Well, you were talking about the uniform professions a second ago.

282
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Is that what you were dreaming of becoming when you were in the school age or did you

283
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,680
have another career aspiration?

284
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:31,760
I wanted to be a at one point, I wanted to be a marine biologist for I don't know why,

285
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,760
but I think a lot of kids do.

286
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:36,520
I'm a marine biologist.

287
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,480
Yeah, no idea why that was there.

288
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:44,920
But I remember when I was in fifth grade, I was a safety patrol and I always thought

289
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:46,260
it was the coolest thing.

290
00:18:46,260 --> 00:18:50,960
We got to wear those little belts with the badges and the cops would come by and they

291
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,160
would stop and salute you.

292
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,720
And I grew up, I didn't have any family that were officers, but I had family friends that

293
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were.

294
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:04,080
And I always just thought they were the coolest folks.

295
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,500
And then went back to issues with my dad.

296
00:19:07,500 --> 00:19:13,400
There was a police lieutenant that lived in my neighborhood and he kind of took me under

297
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:18,000
his wing and talked to me a lot and helped me through a lot of process.

298
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I got to go on some ride alongs with him.

299
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He's since retired, but just he showed me more of what it was really like.

300
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:35,800
And from experiences with my dad, and I think a lot of folks that go into first responder

301
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:42,980
fields and military are because of experiences that they have at a younger age where they're

302
00:19:42,980 --> 00:19:45,740
good or bad and they decide this is what I want to do.

303
00:19:45,740 --> 00:19:49,340
This person helped me or this was a horrible experience and I want to be the difference

304
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or be the change.

305
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,560
And I had some great experiences with folks.

306
00:19:54,560 --> 00:20:01,640
I also had bad experiences when my dad would get himself in trouble with officers where

307
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,440
I did not agree with what they did.

308
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,800
But I'm 16, 17 years old.

309
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Nobody's listening to me.

310
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,960
But I knew by that point that was what I wanted to do.

311
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:13,320
And it took me a while.

312
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:21,720
I don't think I got hired when I was 27 and just applying to everywhere under the sun,

313
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,800
but I knew that's where I wanted to be.

314
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,800
And my dad had told me like, you're never going to amount, you're never going to be

315
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:28,800
able to do this.

316
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:33,920
And I remember when I got the letter that I was hired and the day that I graduated the

317
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:39,100
Academy, it was still at that point was like, I'm going to prove him wrong and I'm going

318
00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:41,160
to do this.

319
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And it took me years.

320
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:46,280
I mean, I just retired last November after 25 years as a captain.

321
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:52,240
And it took me years to see the importance of the job.

322
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,760
And that when I got up to that rank in the command staff, that it wasn't about me anymore.

323
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,940
It was about helping the younger officers.

324
00:20:58,940 --> 00:21:04,940
It was about the time that you spent in the community and about getting to help people

325
00:21:04,940 --> 00:21:09,180
that really needed help and getting to spend time with kids when you'd stop to get coffee

326
00:21:09,180 --> 00:21:10,180
or something.

327
00:21:10,180 --> 00:21:14,000
That impression that you made on them.

328
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:19,000
And you had that, you had the obligation, you're representing your department and your

329
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,000
agency.

330
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:27,000
And with the way things are in this country, one officer does something stupid and it impacts

331
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,000
everybody.

332
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,980
And I looked at it as if I'm stopping and I can talk to these kids or these families

333
00:21:31,980 --> 00:21:36,200
for a few minutes and make a good impression.

334
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:41,720
Then they're going to have a different view of us and they're going to get to see that

335
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:47,440
different view, which is why I teach now too, because I want to give people a view of the

336
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:53,520
people that I knew in the field, as well as the work that I did and the good side of it.

337
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,600
And there's, you know, you see the people online that are doing stuff they shouldn't

338
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,160
be doing.

339
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:04,400
But overall, I think people get into those fields because they really want to help people

340
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,560
and really want to make a difference.

341
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:13,080
But you also get handed a lot of power when you're young and that can be very overwhelming

342
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:14,560
at times.

343
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:15,680
Absolutely.

344
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:22,160
Which is why I think setting the bar so high and creating an environment that draws many,

345
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,840
many candidates to the profession is so important because then you can choose from the best.

346
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,560
What we're seeing now, I think, with this recruitment crisis is people taking everyone

347
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,400
and lowering standards.

348
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,880
And that is obviously going to in turn lead to, for example, one of these horrendous tragedies

349
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:42,040
that we just had, where a person with a fucking horrendous record ends up executing a woman

350
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:43,760
in her in her kitchen.

351
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:48,480
So you know, these are the rotten apples that, you know, perforate in our penetrate in our

352
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:49,480
professions.

353
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,840
And I think one of the reasons is because the standards are getting lower because we're

354
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:59,640
not giving these people in uniform the environment to thrive, therefore draws people into the

355
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:00,640
profession.

356
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:09,080
Well, and that and you have there's a lack of leadership and they don't.

357
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And I'm not saying I know a lot of chiefs and sheriffs that are absolutely amazing that

358
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:19,160
have great environments because they are able to look at the people that they want to bring

359
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:24,000
in and they're gearing what they're doing towards those people.

360
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:30,800
It's almost like an athlete and you have to sell your team to get the athlete that you

361
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,080
want.

362
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:38,240
And the kids that are coming out of college now, they don't want to work 9000 hours of

363
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,240
overtime.

364
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:40,240
They want to work.

365
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:41,460
They're going to work hard.

366
00:23:41,460 --> 00:23:46,480
They have different talents that they're not are not being taken advantage of and not being

367
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,880
sold to them.

368
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,200
And they're just going to cookie cutter approach.

369
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:52,200
You're going to start here.

370
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,500
You're going to do this.

371
00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:55,000
And this is how this has always been.

372
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,560
So we're not going to change it.

373
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,120
Instead of saying, look, you've got this degree in a certain area.

374
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:01,660
You're really good at technology.

375
00:24:01,660 --> 00:24:03,000
We need this over here.

376
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,340
Instead of starting you here, let's get you working with these folks.

377
00:24:07,340 --> 00:24:09,600
Let's try something different now to the box.

378
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,920
How can we make you want to stay with our department?

379
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,280
And I've seen so much of that, especially with the kids that I'm teaching.

380
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:25,240
And I say kids, a lot of them are not kids anymore, but when they're going into the workplace,

381
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,960
that workplace is not looking at the talents they have.

382
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,480
A lot of the times you'll hear the old heads like myself, you know, that have been there

383
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,960
forever going, oh, these young kids don't know anything.

384
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:37,960
They know a lot.

385
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,680
They just know a different set of skills than us old folk do.

386
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:49,920
And we need to find a place to mesh them because they benefit the agency, just like folks like

387
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,200
me that have been there forever and know things that they're not going to teach you in the

388
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:54,200
academy.

389
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:55,200
Yeah.

390
00:24:55,200 --> 00:25:02,240
Well, you mentioned as well, the overtime, this generation now has the ability to really

391
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,240
research what the job is like.

392
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,920
And when you were hired before I was, I was hired 20 years ago.

393
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,160
Back then it was just like, well, I'm going to grow a mustache, have a leather helmet

394
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:12,800
and pull babies out of fire.

395
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:14,920
It's going to be awesome.

396
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:20,360
You know, now you research and you're like, oh, cancer, divorce, you know, suicide.

397
00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:23,400
I don't remember them talking about this 20 years ago.

398
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,880
These young candidates are seeing all this.

399
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,960
And then for example, in the fire service, they're seeing 56 hours a week, eight hours

400
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,400
with the mandatory or even more.

401
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:33,400
That doesn't sound good.

402
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:34,400
I value my time.

403
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,500
I'm, you know, Gen Z and family and friendships are important to me.

404
00:25:38,500 --> 00:25:39,500
And they're right.

405
00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:40,840
They're a thousand percent right.

406
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,240
You wouldn't go into a bank and be like, yeah, it's an eight year work week.

407
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:44,240
Okay.

408
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:45,240
That sounds great.

409
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:46,680
You'd be like, all right, I'm going to the next bank.

410
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:47,680
Thanks for the interview.

411
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,440
So, you know, that there's that whole rolling their eyes, kids today mentality drives me

412
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:53,440
crazy.

413
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,640
You get good people from that generation by setting that bar where it's supposed to be

414
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:57,640
high.

415
00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:58,800
You know, lives are in our hands.

416
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,940
The bar should never be lowered.

417
00:26:00,940 --> 00:26:04,720
But then you've got to create an environment that tells these young candidates, hey, once

418
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,680
you get in this uniform, we're going to take care of you.

419
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:08,760
We're going to train you well.

420
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,840
We're going to expect you to be fit and fast and strong.

421
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,040
And in return, we're going to give you the rest and recovery and support that you need.

422
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:17,400
Yep.

423
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:24,420
And they also now they're the job market is for them.

424
00:26:24,420 --> 00:26:28,560
You have agencies offering 10, 20, $30,000 bonuses.

425
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,680
So if I come to your department and I'm there for two years and I finish my time that's

426
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,600
required, why would I not go to the next department?

427
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,480
Especially if you've told me all these great things about your department, I've been there

428
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,960
for two years and seen that's not the case.

429
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,600
So I can go over here, make this money and then go to the next place.

430
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:56,640
But I also when I got I kind of fell into the teaching thing.

431
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:04,700
But start, you know, giving them the real information about the job to me has been I've

432
00:27:04,700 --> 00:27:11,600
had some four or five students now that have gone on to become officers and firefighters.

433
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,280
But I tell them from the start, like, look, this isn't because you get all the students

434
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,040
will come in and be like, Oh, I watched Criminal Minds.

435
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,040
I want to be a profiler.

436
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:22,240
It's not how this works.

437
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:27,000
It's not your you know, that's not what the job is anymore.

438
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:32,760
And trying to give them that reality so they can base their decisions on the reality of

439
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,440
the job versus them spending four years in college, going into debt and then getting

440
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:42,040
into a job that the first month they're there, they hate it.

441
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:43,040
Absolutely.

442
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaking of media, because I've been one of the reasons why I've written my book is I

443
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:48,760
want to make it into a TV show.

444
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:54,760
That's my my end goal, because we don't have anything on on TV that really shows what we

445
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,200
actually do and what we see.

446
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:57,840
I mean, this is an important thing.

447
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,920
The view of the world through a first responders eyes are so unique.

448
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,880
There's literally a handful of professions that get to see society that way.

449
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:08,560
So it's so important.

450
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,760
But we don't really have much at all.

451
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:15,060
That of 49 was a pretty good one, but that was purely fire, suburban fire.

452
00:28:15,060 --> 00:28:17,640
We had only the brave telling the story of the Prescott 19.

453
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,520
That was really well done.

454
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:20,520
But that's pretty much it.

455
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,680
Then we have soap operas and even the reality TV show.

456
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,680
Someone the other day told me and they're absolutely right.

457
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,320
They're like, yeah, but they always say them.

458
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,320
There's always a happy ending in that documentary.

459
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,080
And I'm like, yeah, that's that's really true.

460
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:34,800
I never thought about that way.

461
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,800
So when it comes to law enforcement in your career, what have been the shows that have

462
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:44,240
come close to at least kind of, you know, showing the good and the bad and the ugly

463
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,600
of law enforcement?

464
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,680
I have actually tried to stay away from watching television.

465
00:28:51,680 --> 00:29:01,040
So I did four tours on Midnights and when I got home from work, I would look for just

466
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,240
funny stuff to watch.

467
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,720
Stupid videos, comedy, movies, things like that.

468
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,960
I watched cops all the time growing up.

469
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,760
And you got to see like I was just talking to my son about this earlier about like they

470
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:21,000
show you like, oh, you're out doing car chases and shootouts and arrested.

471
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,840
That's maybe five percent of your job.

472
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,560
The rest of the time you're sitting in booking, doing paperwork in court after working all

473
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,360
night.

474
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:36,120
There's not a lot of reality to it because nobody's going to sit and watch that.

475
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,520
The show Jail where they were filming stuff in the jail.

476
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:45,160
That was probably the most realistic that I've seen from times that I worked in the

477
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:46,840
jail.

478
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,960
But they're always geared towards whatever message they're trying to push.

479
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:58,440
You don't see a lot of realistic stuff like you said on TV that you get to see glimpses

480
00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:59,520
of it.

481
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:08,920
It would be great to see something where you get to see the first responders human side.

482
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:10,220
What are they struggling with?

483
00:30:10,220 --> 00:30:12,680
What happens after a shooting?

484
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,000
When you go to speak at a school, they're always like, oh, have you ever shot anybody?

485
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,000
Have you drawn your gun?

486
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,000
Yeah.

487
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:19,480
And it's scary.

488
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,240
And you don't want to be the one to do that.

489
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,020
You don't want to be in these pursuits and doing this stuff because there's after effects

490
00:30:25,020 --> 00:30:26,020
to it.

491
00:30:26,020 --> 00:30:30,000
It's like the combat vet that goes over to war.

492
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,180
There's nothing cool about that.

493
00:30:32,180 --> 00:30:36,160
You're going to live with that and see these things and hear these things over and over

494
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,360
and over again.

495
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,740
And they don't make us out to be human beings.

496
00:30:42,740 --> 00:30:45,040
And we're no different than anybody else on the street.

497
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,000
We just put on a different uniform.

498
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,000
Absolutely.

499
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:55,800
Well, speaking of that, when you walked into the actual law enforcement profession, what

500
00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:02,600
was the conversation from mental health and also the fitness standards back then?

501
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,680
The mental health was zero.

502
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,540
They told us the first day, look to your left, look to your right.

503
00:31:09,540 --> 00:31:12,560
One of these people is not going to be here.

504
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:18,400
Whether it's they get killed or whether they retire early, whatever it is, your divorce

505
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,380
rates 55% or higher.

506
00:31:22,380 --> 00:31:23,800
We trained every day.

507
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,980
We were doing fitness stuff, but it was running.

508
00:31:25,980 --> 00:31:31,840
It's not like now where they're doing yoga and all these different types of things.

509
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,160
It was defensive tactics and running.

510
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,460
And you did some obstacle course stuff here and there.

511
00:31:38,460 --> 00:31:43,520
You did your weapons drills, your handcuffing drills.

512
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:49,700
So there wasn't a lot of, there was nothing on mental health.

513
00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:51,120
Fitness was pushed.

514
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:56,040
But once you got out of the academy and went back to the department, that was up to you.

515
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,040
Were you going to continue to do what you were doing or were you just going to be one

516
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:05,080
of these guys that in 20 years, you know, was either just your body was broken down

517
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,040
or you weighed 400 pounds.

518
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,680
And the departments didn't do anything to help you with that.

519
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,360
They weren't like, Oh, take some time to work out or things like that.

520
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,260
The fire department, you guys were awesome.

521
00:32:18,260 --> 00:32:19,320
You got to come back.

522
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,160
You would sit around and talk about stuff.

523
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:27,720
You know, there was more training, I think, in that aspect, at least from what I was seeing.

524
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,200
But in law enforcement, it wasn't there.

525
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:36,120
Yeah, I think the big thing with the fire, you know, and then a lot of times the stations,

526
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,160
the equipment, the training equipment is actually bought by the firefighters.

527
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,400
Some gyms now, they're actually doing it properly.

528
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,360
But most of my career, we paid for the squat racks and the barbells and the kettlebells

529
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,640
and all the things.

530
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,340
But yes, we do have an opportunity to at least train when we get back.

531
00:32:51,340 --> 00:32:55,560
You guys are in a cruiser or whatever the dynamic is, you don't have a gym to kind of

532
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,960
dip into for an hour between calls.

533
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:06,680
And I got fortunate later on in my career where I had a chief or deputy chief that I

534
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:11,600
worked for that was very big on the health and wellness of the officers.

535
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,200
I got put in charge of that.

536
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:21,100
I ran our peer support team for a while and got to be involved in a lot of that stuff

537
00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:23,640
coming around.

538
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,480
Whereas early in my career, it was nonexistent.

539
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:32,800
We actually built before I left, I actually had an area that was built up for the officers

540
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:39,420
to be able to go take 20 minute naps in between shifts or whatever, just so they had a place

541
00:33:39,420 --> 00:33:41,680
to go relax.

542
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,280
And then when I got my service dog and brought her into work, they would come in and sit

543
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:46,280
and play with her.

544
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,460
And that was like night and day.

545
00:33:48,460 --> 00:33:53,200
So they would come in and roll around and play with her and then start talking about

546
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:54,840
stuff that they were struggling with.

547
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,480
And I had people I had 20 years I had never even met before coming in and talk about this

548
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,600
stuff.

549
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,880
But it was later in my career when that chief was like, you need to come in and tell your

550
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,600
story to the command staff.

551
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,760
And in turn, I was able to then go to the entire department and talk about not only

552
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:23,840
my story, but to play a documentary that Fairfax PD had put together about officers that had

553
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:30,360
lost loved ones that had attempted suicide, and that got help and came back.

554
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:37,240
And I got to get that conversation started, which was, to me, that was well worth 20 years

555
00:34:37,240 --> 00:34:38,720
of battling to get it started.

556
00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:43,200
I wish it had started sooner, but towards the end of my career, I got to see that.

557
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:48,840
And I also got to escort a widow from New Jersey at the police memorial during National

558
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:55,840
Police Week for the first year where they honored officers that had died by suicide

559
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:56,960
because of the job.

560
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:05,520
And they finally honored them after umpteen years at that service.

561
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,520
Taking a tangent for a second, speaking of mental health and the reason why I'm thinking

562
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,760
about this, you mentioned Fairfax, a lot of the leadership in the IAFF, the Firefighter

563
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,840
Union were from there.

564
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:21,800
And I found it very frustrating that my whole career, so 14 years in uniform, 20 years since

565
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:28,560
I started now, our union has not talked about the work week at all.

566
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,100
In the mental health side, there's some peer support training, and then you've got one

567
00:35:32,100 --> 00:35:36,880
facility in the Northeast that's supposed to cover the entire nation.

568
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:44,440
So again, I struggled to comprehend how we can have such a horrendous crisis with suicide,

569
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,600
with cancers, with all the marital problems.

570
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,320
And yet when you take a step back, it doesn't seem to be an equal and opposite amount of

571
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,680
effort being put in to stop this from the people that we pay with our union dues.

572
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:01,720
And then I look at the chiefs of some of these departments and the city and county managers

573
00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:06,920
who have their men and women dropping like flies in police and fire and dispatch and

574
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:11,760
corrections and all the places and seem unmoved.

575
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,360
And it all comes out, oh, we don't have the money to fix it.

576
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,160
And I ask that, how can you sleep at night?

577
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:22,840
Truly, as a human being, knowing that this is your workforce, your personnel.

578
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,600
And I realized the same mental health problems that we're seeing on the street in all the

579
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:34,360
ranks in the actual stations, that's probably occurring in leadership as well.

580
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,000
But we're not talking about that.

581
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,280
The only way that you could actually sleep well at night and you've had locally here

582
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:45,760
four or five suicides in as many years has to be that you have some sort of mental health

583
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:47,600
going on as well.

584
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:51,200
Because otherwise you'd be searching the fucking earth trying to find problems.

585
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,040
And you'd say, we are going to change the work week.

586
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,160
We're going to bring in a counselor that's going to be full time.

587
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,820
We're going to raise fitness standards, whatever it is.

588
00:36:57,820 --> 00:36:58,820
But I don't see that.

589
00:36:58,820 --> 00:37:03,720
I mean, it's like swimming upstream trying to get this message with the work week specifically

590
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:07,560
to get some toe holes.

591
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,820
And so when you think about more extreme examples, the head of a cigarette company, the head

592
00:37:11,820 --> 00:37:16,660
of Purdue Farmer, the head of McDonald's, that they know in their heart hearts that

593
00:37:16,660 --> 00:37:22,020
millions of Americans are dying because of their products and they still sleep at night.

594
00:37:22,020 --> 00:37:28,080
We forget that that side, the leadership side, there is also a massive mental health crisis.

595
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:33,160
And until we address that, either they find some help and then start finding their humanity

596
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:34,880
and actually fight for changes.

597
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,680
Or we say you're not fit to be in this position and we need to put someone with some empathy

598
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:39,680
back in.

599
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,240
I think this is another interesting part of this mental health conversation.

600
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:44,240
Yeah.

601
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:53,160
And you see too when at least what I found when I got to that level, they're distanced

602
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,120
from the first line workers.

603
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,560
So they're able to take vacations.

604
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,720
They're able to have days off where the men and women that are actually in there doing

605
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:06,560
the work can't.

606
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,640
And they're telling these folks, oh, you can't go to this.

607
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:10,980
You can't do that.

608
00:38:10,980 --> 00:38:14,560
But they're seeing these people are never at work.

609
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,640
And they're saying, oh, we can't do this.

610
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:18,640
We can't do that.

611
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:26,760
And in some instances, it was different with police and the sheriff funding wise and things

612
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,540
like that.

613
00:38:28,540 --> 00:38:34,480
But there comes a time as a leader where you have to stand up and say, I'm doing this for

614
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,960
my folks and I have to make sure my folks are OK.

615
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:45,440
And if you don't agree with that, I'm going to go to bat form and it may cost me my job.

616
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:53,800
But I have to do is like you said, we have people that like I don't know how they sleep.

617
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:59,400
I know my last few years in the department, I was working 16 hour days easily, if not

618
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:00,680
longer.

619
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:06,240
I like staying later in my office and hanging out and getting to see the night shift people

620
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:10,440
because you didn't see the supervisors coming in.

621
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,040
You didn't see the command staff people coming in.

622
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,320
They like just having that opportunity to talk to them.

623
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:23,080
And you would get every now and then you get a speech about, oh, we have to go and do their

624
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,240
job and be out there.

625
00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:27,440
They don't want you out there with them.

626
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:31,840
Just like Elon Musk saying, I'm going to come in and work on the production line at Tesla.

627
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,360
Nobody wants him touching anything down there.

628
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:35,720
They want to see him.

629
00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:36,720
They want to talk to him.

630
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:39,320
They want to they want to feel like they're being heard.

631
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:44,520
They might want to get him to redesign that fucking truck at least.

632
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:49,200
Yeah, that is not an attractive truck.

633
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,360
But it's like they don't.

634
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,140
It's hard for me to comprehend that.

635
00:39:53,140 --> 00:39:57,920
When I left, one of the things I had the chief that I was talking about earlier, he had left

636
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,560
previous to me and I told him the hardest thing for me is watching these men and women

637
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,920
walking around this department.

638
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,000
Looking the way that they do because they were tired.

639
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,000
They were exhausted.

640
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,520
They were just beat down and nobody did any.

641
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:12,760
Nobody cared.

642
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:20,680
And the same people that get to these ranks, their higher levels, you spend your career

643
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,200
saying, I would never do this.

644
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:23,440
I hate that they're doing this.

645
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,760
And then you get up there and you're doing the same thing.

646
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:33,720
And in 2019, when we had it was 256 documented suicides and law enforcement.

647
00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:36,720
Then everybody said, oh, we have an issue.

648
00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:39,240
Now we're back to the hiring process is bad.

649
00:40:39,240 --> 00:40:41,920
So we're going to push that to the side.

650
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:49,200
And you only have a few folks here and there that are speaking out about it.

651
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:56,600
And I have great respect for any chief, anybody in a command staff, staff member who gets

652
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,680
up and speaks about this stuff because it's not the popular thing.

653
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,080
You're going to get pushback.

654
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,760
But like I said earlier, this is not about you.

655
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:11,360
Yeah, you pushed yourself to get to these ranks and everything else, but you're there

656
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:15,840
to make sure your men and women have the support that they need.

657
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,440
They have the tools that they need.

658
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:25,800
And I push servant leadership a lot because the sheriff and the police chief, they're

659
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:27,880
not out doing anything.

660
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,640
They're doing the political stuff.

661
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:35,800
They're speaking at the town halls and things like that, not demeaning their jobs at all.

662
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,320
But your men and women that are on the front line are doing all the work.

663
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:44,320
And if you're not providing them the tools that they need, that's going to reflect upon

664
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:45,320
you.

665
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:50,120
And the people that are out here making these mistakes that have these bad shootings and

666
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:55,040
all these other things, they're exhausted.

667
00:41:55,040 --> 00:42:00,840
They're still dealing with trauma and you're sending them back out.

668
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:06,640
It's like somebody that comes back from war that's got severe PTSD and you go, oh, you

669
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,720
know, in six months, we're sending you back over there.

670
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:11,060
You'll be okay.

671
00:42:11,060 --> 00:42:13,240
You can't keep doing that stuff.

672
00:42:13,240 --> 00:42:17,800
It's a reflection of you, but you there was a sheriff in California.

673
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,760
I think it was L.A. County Sheriff.

674
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,600
And this was a few years back when he got elected.

675
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,880
He told his command staff, everybody from Lieutenant and above is going to take off

676
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,480
their brass for 30 days.

677
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:36,440
You're going to reapply for your jobs.

678
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:38,960
And people like went crazy.

679
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:43,040
One of the lieutenants went out on the media and was like, they won't know what to do.

680
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:44,960
If I don't have my bars on.

681
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,440
Well, that says a lot about you.

682
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:50,360
Because these men and women know what they're doing.

683
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,840
They work their asses off.

684
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:57,040
And if you don't have faith in the people that you're hiring for your department, they

685
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:01,760
know that they see how you feel about them.

686
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,240
They also see what you're doing.

687
00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:08,320
But a lot of these higher up folks, they don't they don't think that they think everybody

688
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:15,040
loves them, that they're great and they don't get the fact that the men and women that are

689
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:16,520
doing this job see them.

690
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:21,080
They see when they're there, when they're not there, they see how they treat them.

691
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,840
And that's going to make a big difference as to whether or not they're going to stay

692
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:28,200
with your department as well as how they're going to interact with the community.

693
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:29,200
Yeah.

694
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:33,280
Well, I mean, I've seen this over and over again and experienced it the last place I

695
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:34,280
was at.

696
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:40,480
But another area when it comes to mental health is woefully under discussed is organizational

697
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,600
betrayal or organizational stress.

698
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:48,360
You have these people that a lot of them are hard charges and they are performing despite

699
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,680
the environment that they're in and they do things the right way.

700
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:57,640
And then, like I've had numerous people that got hurt in uniform and then they were discarded.

701
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:02,240
You have people that had a good shoot that were politicized in the news and their department

702
00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:03,760
turned their back on them.

703
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:09,040
Those kind of things can be just absolutely catastrophic because that's your tribe.

704
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,200
You wrote a blank check saying, I will die protecting my fellow men and women in this

705
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,520
uniform and the people that we serve.

706
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,760
And then all of a sudden, the tribe turns their back on you.

707
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:22,260
I mean, it's horrendous.

708
00:44:22,260 --> 00:44:28,160
And then seeing too, these men and women have such great ideas.

709
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:33,680
And you coming in as a leader when I was a shift commander, I had been out of that

710
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:34,680
game for a while.

711
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:39,480
I had been in a different position and I came in and I said, look, if I come around and

712
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,080
I'm asking you questions, it's not because I'm trying to hem you up.

713
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,160
I don't I haven't been doing this for 10 years.

714
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,080
I need to understand why you're doing what you're doing.

715
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:55,440
And if you think there's a better way of how we're doing things, let me know that.

716
00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:00,080
But I wanted them to put it in writing because they have great ideas.

717
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,860
They're doing the job every day.

718
00:45:01,860 --> 00:45:04,280
Give them the credit for it.

719
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:08,160
I've seen a lot of leaders where they are like, oh, this was my idea.

720
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:09,160
I came up.

721
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:10,160
No, it wasn't.

722
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:15,560
It absolutely was not because you've been sitting behind a desk and you wouldn't know

723
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:20,080
how to operate a car or work in it in corrections or whatever.

724
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:24,900
If it hits you in the face, you've been away from it for so long.

725
00:45:24,900 --> 00:45:30,240
You have to be comfortable enough in your skin and your knowledge and everything else

726
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:33,200
to allow your folks to shine.

727
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:34,200
Absolutely.

728
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:40,120
Well, going to your kind of mental health story, let's start with 9-11.

729
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:41,320
You have a very unique perspective.

730
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,820
I had a lot of people on the show that obviously were in, you know, ground zero area.

731
00:45:45,820 --> 00:45:51,240
Talk to me about the kind of days leading up to that and that experience for you.

732
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:59,640
So you know, I was happy go lucky guy, always joking around, you know, 9-11 comes up.

733
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:01,240
I remember a beautiful day.

734
00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:02,240
I was married.

735
00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:06,400
I had just been married the year before.

736
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,400
I was happy as could be.

737
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,160
And I go to work and I remember thinking this is a beautiful day.

738
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:17,120
This would have been a great day for a mental health day.

739
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:18,880
And get there.

740
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,680
We had a trial that was going on and we're getting ready to start trial.

741
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:28,240
An attorney comes in the courtroom and says a plane just hit one of the towers in New

742
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:29,240
York.

743
00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:33,760
I'm thinking, you know, medical emergency, something like that.

744
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:41,320
And a little while later, he comes in and says another plane just hit the second tower.

745
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:47,360
Now where our courthouse is in Arlington, depending on which courtroom you're in, you

746
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:48,760
can see the Pentagon.

747
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:53,520
So the courtroom we were in looking out of the windows, you could see it.

748
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:58,240
So I turned to the guy that I was in there with and I was like something's going to happen.

749
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:01,400
This is not we knew at that point it was not a mistake.

750
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,980
It wasn't just an accident that it happened.

751
00:47:03,980 --> 00:47:09,260
And then a call went out over the radio that the Pentagon was on fire and we could see

752
00:47:09,260 --> 00:47:12,520
the plume of smoke coming up.

753
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:18,880
And one of our guys was out on the road and he came over the radio and said the Pentagon's

754
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:19,960
on fire.

755
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:25,840
The plane just flew over my head and crashed into the side of it.

756
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,400
And so we told the judge, the judge had come down.

757
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,080
We said, you know, your honor, you need to go.

758
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:32,520
We have to go respond to this.

759
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:33,520
We're not going to be able to be here.

760
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,520
There was somebody in the jury room that had somebody at the Pentagon.

761
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:40,200
So they were freaking out as well.

762
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:46,860
So about 10 or 15 minutes after the plane hit, I'm at the Pentagon.

763
00:47:46,860 --> 00:47:52,480
And I remember I pulled out of the garage and I'm, you know, lights and sirens are going

764
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:57,680
and I get down the street and I forgot how to get to the Pentagon and I drive by it every

765
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:03,800
day because I lived by University of Maryland and it was very, it felt like forever, but

766
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:09,680
it was quick and there was people actually getting out of their cars, telling other people

767
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,520
to move because we had to get through because it was coming across the radio.

768
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:20,600
What had happened to regular, the media was picking it up and you get down there and it

769
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:28,080
was very coming around the corner into that area and seeing that at that point, the floors

770
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:29,480
hadn't dropped down yet.

771
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:33,840
Like you see in the picture and there was people just running.

772
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:43,200
We're running in and everybody else is running away and you couldn't even like, you couldn't

773
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:44,580
panic or anything.

774
00:48:44,580 --> 00:48:46,840
It was just like, I've got to get in here and do this.

775
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:52,000
I, you know, you got to do your job, you're not even thinking about it.

776
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:57,720
And then later on, as the day was going on, we set up the crime scene and all that stuff

777
00:48:57,720 --> 00:49:04,520
and the tape and everything and you get a second to stop and you're just like, man,

778
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:06,040
and you can't get through on the phones.

779
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:12,120
The phones were all backed up and whatever it was, we couldn't get on there.

780
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:20,760
The radio was just chaotic and I remember thinking, just standing there for a minute

781
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,680
thinking it is so quiet.

782
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:24,680
Traffic had been stopped.

783
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,040
The roads were shut down.

784
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:36,040
The airlines had been stopped and it was so, it was peacefully quiet, like eerie.

785
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,720
And you know, you're going in and you're, you're trying to help people.

786
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:42,120
You're trying to get people away from the building.

787
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:49,120
They kept calling over the radio that the, we had to back up because there was planes

788
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:55,760
that were coming up and I found out later that it was the planes from Norfolk that intercepted

789
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:57,440
93.

790
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:02,560
But initially they said there's plane five minutes out, four minutes out three, and they

791
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:03,900
were doing a countdown.

792
00:50:03,900 --> 00:50:06,520
And I turned to the guy that was next to me and I was like, we're going to freaking die

793
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:10,200
right here.

794
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:14,280
And they kept telling us to back up away from the Pentagon too, because the floor wasn't

795
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:15,280
stable.

796
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:20,240
And eventually, as you saw in the picture, those floors collapsed, but you're helping

797
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:27,080
people out and you would grab people and sometimes you would have somebody and other times you'd

798
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:33,660
have a part of somebody and the smells, the sounds, all of it.

799
00:50:33,660 --> 00:50:37,480
I could never get that out of my head.

800
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:42,680
And I was there, I think till two or three in the morning that night got relieved, had

801
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:46,720
to be back at work first thing in the morning.

802
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:50,640
And I still, I wasn't able to contact my family.

803
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:52,200
Nobody, they knew I was down there.

804
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:55,560
They didn't know if I was dead, if I was alive until I got home.

805
00:50:55,560 --> 00:51:00,240
I didn't see what had happened in New York till that weekend.

806
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:05,240
And I slowly, at that point, I'm on our peer support team.

807
00:51:05,240 --> 00:51:06,560
So I'm thinking, Oh, I got this.

808
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:07,560
I'm good.

809
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:09,480
I'll be fine.

810
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:16,480
And slowly, it just kept getting worse and worse and worse.

811
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,920
And I would go home every night.

812
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:25,120
I would lock myself in a room and basically just cry.

813
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:26,760
I didn't want to be around people.

814
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:28,880
I withdrew from everybody.

815
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:29,880
I would go to work.

816
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,480
I would do my job.

817
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,880
And then I would just go home and lock myself in this room.

818
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:43,520
And two years after that in 2003, in May, my wife left.

819
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,760
She was like, I can't deal with this anymore.

820
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,240
And I don't know what to do with you.

821
00:51:49,240 --> 00:51:51,040
But I can't do it anymore.

822
00:51:51,040 --> 00:52:01,600
And so that I have been trying to keep up this persona and now I've failed at my job

823
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,200
in my mind.

824
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,040
I am a hindrance to everybody.

825
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:06,040
I can't.

826
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:07,520
I'm going crazy as far as I can tell.

827
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:09,160
I don't know what the hell is going on.

828
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,880
Why am I hearing and seeing all this stuff over and over again?

829
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:19,380
Plane flies overhead low and I'm right back there again.

830
00:52:19,380 --> 00:52:24,800
And then when she left, I remember the day she left, I was on my knees begging her not

831
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:28,200
to go.

832
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:38,480
And she left and to me that I was done and we all lived, my family and her family, we

833
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,140
all lived in that same community.

834
00:52:41,140 --> 00:52:45,500
And so I would tell my parents and my sister and her family, she's at grad school, she's

835
00:52:45,500 --> 00:52:46,500
at work.

836
00:52:46,500 --> 00:52:48,120
She just nobody knew she left.

837
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:53,360
I'm like, I just got to keep I can't let people know I failed again.

838
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:57,120
And in October of 2003, I finally got to the point.

839
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:58,280
I got up one morning.

840
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:04,840
It was beautiful outside just like that day and got up.

841
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:06,280
I walked out on the porch.

842
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:11,160
I looked around and I went back in and I sat down and I started writing out my note.

843
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:17,840
And the first thing I wrote was I'm sorry to whoever it is is going to find me here.

844
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:19,560
And I apologize to my parents.

845
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:24,560
I apologize to her and took my service weapon.

846
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:28,640
I put it to my head and I started pulling a trigger back and I closed my eyes.

847
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:33,920
And for whatever reason, I saw my wife.

848
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,800
And that's the only reason that I'm still sitting here.

849
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:44,640
And I knew in that little moment of clarity I had for whatever reason that if I shot myself,

850
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:49,600
she was going to get blamed for it.

851
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,920
And I was very, you know, you hear about people that go through these struggles and lose their

852
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:58,460
job and like you said, they get discarded.

853
00:53:58,460 --> 00:54:02,240
I was very fortunate that I didn't for that.

854
00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:03,720
I didn't pull the trigger that day.

855
00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:10,280
I guess I was fortunate that I could keep up my appearance at work.

856
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:19,160
And I was very fortunate to that I had some great people in my life that I just happened

857
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:20,160
to cross paths with.

858
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,560
There was one guy that I was in rehab with.

859
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:27,960
I had blown my shoulder out and he had gone through rehab with me, saw me at police week

860
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,440
the following year was like, dude, something's not right with you.

861
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:39,600
Look, we're doing this post critical incident seminar and we want you, you know, I want

862
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,640
you to come in and you need to go through this.

863
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:43,380
It's going to be great.

864
00:54:43,380 --> 00:54:44,520
And so they put us up.

865
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,800
We have three day seminar in Crystal City.

866
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:51,160
It was run by FBI profiler and two psychologists.

867
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,720
And I went through it and they did EMDR on me.

868
00:54:54,720 --> 00:55:00,120
And it was the first time that I laughed.

869
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:04,640
And I, when I remember I went out of the room because it was basically this big group debriefing

870
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:12,280
and they had brought in everybody from first responders, the civilians that were working

871
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:16,960
at the hotel, identifying the family members that had died were there.

872
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:23,080
ECC fire, police, sheriff, everybody was all mixed in.

873
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:27,200
And when I went out of the room to do the EMDR and I came back, everybody stopped and

874
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:33,960
they were like, it looks like the weight of the world has been lifted off of your shoulders.

875
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:38,080
And it was for the first time I had been able to open up and talk about stuff.

876
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:41,120
And they told me before I went in there, they're like, when you see this stuff, you're going

877
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:45,640
to think it's the weirdest crap ever, but it works.

878
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,920
And I am a huge advocate for it now.

879
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:56,240
I get to see Kathy and Irene were the two psychologists that did the EMDR on me at various

880
00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:57,800
times throughout that.

881
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:02,800
And then on that they kept me on as the law enforcement peer for a year when they were

882
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:04,360
doing the rest of the seminar.

883
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:06,760
So I got to go through and do the EMDR with them.

884
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:11,120
And I see them every year at police week and I get to thank them.

885
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:16,080
I've got to introduce them to my family, to my kids.

886
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:20,280
And I've just been, I was very fortunate that I had the right people at the right time that

887
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:24,480
crossed paths with me.

888
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:33,160
But then I was also seeing how other people were being treated and getting to see how

889
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:38,440
people reacted to me after I finally started talking about stuff.

890
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,680
I wasn't allowed to talk about the stuff.

891
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:42,580
I got my job threatened.

892
00:56:42,580 --> 00:56:43,720
I would get pulled out.

893
00:56:43,720 --> 00:56:47,200
I would be speaking to roll calls talking about stuff and they would pull me out and

894
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:50,760
they're like, you can't talk about suicide.

895
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:54,160
Because I guess they thought that if you talked about suicide, that you just, you know, you

896
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,320
were going to go out and do something.

897
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:01,920
And I remember thinking, all right, I have this choice that I have to make.

898
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,760
Do I shut up or do I keep talking?

899
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:08,680
And to me, it was important enough because I knew what I had been through when I didn't

900
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:10,540
want anybody to go through that.

901
00:57:10,540 --> 00:57:15,560
So I kept talking about it and kept talking about it and kept talking about it.

902
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:20,160
And I went and I spoke at the world conference on crisis and trauma, slowly started getting

903
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:29,800
out on the speaking circuit and then finally in 2019, 2020, when you had all those documented

904
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:36,360
suicides, then they were like, oh, well, maybe we do need to start talking about it.

905
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:41,360
And I'm just shaking my head and I'm like, you know, whatever gets the job done, whatever

906
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:47,200
we need to do, you know, to be able to get this out and start talking to people.

907
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:53,280
And so I just kept pushing and pushing and pushing.

908
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:59,160
Now during this time, to me, and you hear different opinions from people, some people

909
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:03,480
say you get over PTSD or PTS, whatever you want to call it.

910
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:08,680
Other people say it's, it's, you know, you get through it, you don't get through it.

911
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,360
To me, I know I still have stuff.

912
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:16,440
I have just learned how my triggers work.

913
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:21,800
I know when I'm starting to feel like I'm going downhill and I know what to do now,

914
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,360
simple little things to make that change.

915
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:28,760
I know that talking about it helps other people.

916
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:32,660
If I go and speak somewhere and there's a thousand people in the audience, if one person

917
00:58:32,660 --> 00:58:38,280
comes up to me afterwards, even if they say, you know, I got this buddy that's going through

918
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,200
this, I know you're talking about you.

919
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,040
I'll take what I can get.

920
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:44,120
I'm going to help you out.

921
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,080
I'll listen to you.

922
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:52,160
You know, if what I told you helps you, I win.

923
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,840
And a lot of it with the guys, I talk about fighting, I talk about wrestling, and that's

924
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:57,400
where the guys latch on.

925
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:04,200
And then I talk about my son and the conversations I had with him in the children's books.

926
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:08,480
And then a lot of the women latch on to that.

927
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:16,960
And I'll take whatever, you know, whatever I can get to draw you in, I will take it.

928
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:22,880
I like going to these conferences that I speak at and hearing other people's stories and

929
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:29,200
linking them in because there's so much trauma that we're dealing with.

930
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:33,520
You know, an average person, I think they said is three to six or two to six traumas

931
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:40,640
in a lifetime, first responders can be anywhere from 200 to 600 during their lifetime.

932
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:46,000
You can't do this job and not have it impact you.

933
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:50,600
And we need to get out of this whole stigma thing of, oh, you can't talk about it.

934
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,360
You're weak.

935
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:58,600
To me, the hardest thing I ever had to do was ask for help because I knew that I was

936
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:03,480
putting my job at risk and my identity as a first responder, which is another area where

937
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,480
we struggle with.

938
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,200
I'm not a cop.

939
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:09,200
I'm a husband.

940
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:10,200
I'm a dad.

941
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:11,200
I'm a brother.

942
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:13,240
You know, all kinds of other things.

943
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:16,600
A cop is what I did to what I was doing.

944
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:22,600
But it took me again, 20 plus years to finally realize that's not who I am.

945
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:24,720
But so often we get caught up in that.

946
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:31,520
And then when that is gone, where you have those injuries on the job and then you're

947
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:35,360
kicked to the curb, you don't know what to do.

948
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:39,280
It goes back to the cheesy TV shows.

949
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:43,200
I'm a damn good cop.

950
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:48,760
And I've got to see so many people that are now coming out on the speaking circuit that

951
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:55,120
are sharing their stories where that you see that light bulb go off during their stories

952
01:00:55,120 --> 01:01:01,040
where they had that thing that happened and they were like, oh, this isn't a big family.

953
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:04,880
You know, I upset our police academy a few years back because I told them I would go

954
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:08,800
out and speak to the new recruits when they started and then when they were getting ready

955
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:09,800
to graduate.

956
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:15,000
And I said, if you think for a second, any of these departments care about you, I can't

957
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:16,000
help you.

958
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:17,840
You're going to I'm getting ready to retire.

959
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:21,160
You're going to get the same boards that I get behind me.

960
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:26,120
If you're at the right level, you get those boards, you get a cake and a couple of other

961
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:31,440
stupid plaques and then nobody talks to you.

962
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:35,840
And you know, people, they go into this job and they're like, we're a family.

963
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:37,880
We're this is the most dysfunctional family.

964
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:44,440
I love the men and women that I got to work with.

965
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:45,440
Absolutely love them.

966
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:49,480
Go to battle with them any day of the week.

967
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:54,000
But you have to understand this is a job.

968
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,440
It's not who you are.

969
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:56,440
It's not your life.

970
01:01:56,440 --> 01:02:02,440
And at the end of the day, when you walk away, you don't have access to all that stuff anymore.

971
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:07,160
If you go back to your department a few months later, a year later, they're going to be like,

972
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:10,720
who the hell are you?

973
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:17,480
And if you haven't already started meeting people outside of your career and having friends

974
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:21,720
outside of the job, you're going to be in for a world of hurt.

975
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:22,720
Absolutely.

976
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:26,880
I've heard a lot of cops say, you know, the thin blue line isn't a real thing.

977
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:28,680
And it's the same in the fire service.

978
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:30,480
And I disagree.

979
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:33,840
It's just not everyone in the profession is going to be there for you.

980
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:39,760
There are people in very cohesive, you know, at my firehouse in Anaheim, station one, like

981
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,640
I left, I left, you know, moved back east.

982
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:47,400
And I think it was almost 10 years when they all became my groomsmen and best man, because

983
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,160
that was my fucking ride or die crew.

984
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:54,120
But the last place I worked at, I haven't heard a fucking peep from any of them.

985
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:55,120
You know what I mean?

986
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:58,360
The completely toxic, you know, other side of the spectrum.

987
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:03,960
So you know, when I go to the 343 hero challenges I'm doing in September, which is a 9-11 memorial

988
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:07,300
fundraiser, that's the camaraderie.

989
01:03:07,300 --> 01:03:08,440
Those men and women get it.

990
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:13,520
They show up, they sweat, you know, they're there to raise money and never let people

991
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:15,480
forget what happened that day.

992
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:18,120
That is, you know, and it's the same when people are struggling.

993
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:21,240
It's the same people that show up, like truly show up.

994
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:24,320
That is the core of the thin blue line, the thin red line.

995
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:29,160
What we need to do is push those walls out and get more people to realize that is a thing.

996
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:32,520
But you know, we were talking about leadership earlier.

997
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:38,320
I mean, if you look who is presented to us as presidential nominees these days, they're

998
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,280
not selfless, you know, servant leaders.

999
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:43,280
They're selfish narcissists.

1000
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:48,940
So even at the pinnacle of the so-called leadership pyramid, you've got that same issue.

1001
01:03:48,940 --> 01:03:53,040
So this is a cultural thing in America that we've got to flip back on its head.

1002
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:56,800
You know, the real, I was telling something the other day, I've interviewed almost a thousand

1003
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:00,280
people and one of the closing questions of what are some of the books you recommend,

1004
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:03,100
a lot of times the conversation is on leadership.

1005
01:04:03,100 --> 01:04:08,000
Never has anyone said, oh, you've got to check out Trump or Biden's book on leadership.

1006
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:09,920
Because they're fucking horrible.

1007
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:14,760
It's Jocko Willink and this, you know, this sports person or whatever, like real, real,

1008
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:20,400
you know, selfish, so selfish, selfless servant leaders that lead from the front that are

1009
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:22,200
leaders, not bosses.

1010
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:23,800
So you know, I mean, this is the problem.

1011
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:29,480
If we've got that kind of toxicity in our culture as human beings in America, the most

1012
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:33,640
affluent country on the planet, and we don't have gratitude and community and compassion

1013
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:39,800
and empathy, that's going to bleed into police, fire, corrections, plumbing, banking, everything.

1014
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:43,000
So I think it's even greater than our uniforms.

1015
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:45,760
We should be better at it because we're supposed to be a family.

1016
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:49,380
We'll, you know, we're relying on each other when life or death situations.

1017
01:04:49,380 --> 01:04:54,360
So if we can't lead the charge on putting community back in this country, then what

1018
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:56,280
are the fucking civilians going to do?

1019
01:04:56,280 --> 01:05:04,800
When it goes back to let's show people the humanity of the badge.

1020
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:11,600
I, like I said, I will never be able to say enough how fortunate I've been along my journey

1021
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:13,400
because I think everybody's on a path.

1022
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:19,400
And I talked about this at Enduring Warrior when we met up that night.

1023
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:20,560
We're all on a journey.

1024
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:25,680
We have a reason to be here and along our path, you're going to meet people and they're

1025
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,280
going to teach you stuff, good or bad.

1026
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:30,520
And you have to do that as well.

1027
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:36,360
Like you, my favorite thing in my life is getting to teach, whether it's speaking in

1028
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:40,220
an event or teaching these college students.

1029
01:05:40,220 --> 01:05:42,560
And I've got the pictures that I have up on the wall.

1030
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:48,100
I've got one with three of my former students that were interns.

1031
01:05:48,100 --> 01:05:56,760
And one of the greatest things for me is being able to help my students get ahead.

1032
01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:03,960
And I had one young lady who wanted to be a she wanted to be a baseball reporter, which

1033
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:07,120
I had, you know, I don't watch baseball very much.

1034
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:12,360
So I'm like, I don't know anything about this, but you know, I'll see what I can do.

1035
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:16,200
One of our auxiliary officers on the police department was a sportscaster for Channel

1036
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:17,420
4 News.

1037
01:06:17,420 --> 01:06:20,840
So I made a call and I was like, Hey, can you help her out?

1038
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:22,340
Bring her along.

1039
01:06:22,340 --> 01:06:26,080
My attorney is a he's a NFL agent.

1040
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:28,280
And I said, do you know anybody that does this?

1041
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:31,640
He goes, I got somebody at the commanders that does reporting.

1042
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:34,080
And this was a couple of years back.

1043
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:36,040
He'll be happy to help her out.

1044
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:42,760
Now she's doing she's like the head reporter at the university and getting to see her go

1045
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:48,120
from a freshman to where she's at now and all that she's been able to do is absolutely

1046
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:55,060
amazing and getting to see these young people that you get to help them get past those little

1047
01:06:55,060 --> 01:06:59,520
bumps in the road that you went through those struggles that you had to deal with.

1048
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:01,880
That to me is what it's about.

1049
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:02,880
Absolutely.

1050
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:07,280
I just shared a video, a Filipino gentleman.

1051
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:08,480
He was a leader.

1052
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:13,120
I forget exactly in what capacity, but they were talking about Filipino culture and how

1053
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:15,360
community is so important.

1054
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:19,240
And he said, you know, that's when you learn when you're surrounded by people, when you're

1055
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:23,080
deep in this community, you're exposed to music and dance and you know, whatever it

1056
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:24,080
is.

1057
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:29,040
And then you get mentored by this people, you know, so when you have this cohesive tribe,

1058
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:30,320
you're able to help each other out.

1059
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:32,040
They say it takes a village.

1060
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:36,520
But if you're divisive and the goal is that the holy dollar or whatever it is, and you're

1061
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:41,280
clambering on each other to make it to the top, then what are you going to be good at?

1062
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:43,520
You know, to yourself, that's it.

1063
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:48,560
That's all you're good at is chasing your dreams at the expense of everyone around you.

1064
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:56,360
When I got it was so funny when I retired, like my life, it was like night and day.

1065
01:07:56,360 --> 01:08:03,520
I spent so much time keeping to myself because of the job, because of this persona that I

1066
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:06,920
felt like I had to keep up because of the hours I was working.

1067
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:10,600
I didn't talk to anybody that lived around me.

1068
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:16,200
If you weren't a cop or a first responder, military, I didn't talk to you.

1069
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:23,480
And now my service dog Taz, we go out for walks and the book that I just wrote about

1070
01:08:23,480 --> 01:08:28,340
her, I'm handing it out to all the kids in the community.

1071
01:08:28,340 --> 01:08:33,040
And so now we're going for walks and everybody comes out the little kids run around, they

1072
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:35,360
want to see Taz, they want to play with her.

1073
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:39,960
I take her out places and everybody wants to come up and play with her.

1074
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:40,960
Nobody cares about me.

1075
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:45,520
It's all about the dog.

1076
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:52,040
But putting myself in those uncomfortable positions because, you know, I worked with

1077
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:57,060
a young lady when I was getting my master's degree, we had to go be part of a group to

1078
01:08:57,060 --> 01:08:59,600
see like the group process and how it worked.

1079
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:03,720
And we were supposed to go to like AA meetings or something, but I of course didn't read

1080
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:04,720
the full assignment.

1081
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:12,040
So I went to this group on anxiety and body image that met at this coffee shop every two

1082
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:13,040
weeks.

1083
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:20,560
And it was all of these like 18 to maybe 24, 25, it was young folks.

1084
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:25,440
So I go sit in and I'm listening to this and I stayed with that group for two years.

1085
01:09:25,440 --> 01:09:31,400
And I remember I told them one night I'm like, I would have never talked to you all ever

1086
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:34,080
because you were just it was out of my comfort zone.

1087
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:35,720
You weren't what I knew.

1088
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:43,560
And I learned so much from those folks, hearing their journey, hearing their stories, what

1089
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:48,520
they had been through their different perspectives on the world where I had my, you know, straight

1090
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:49,520
and narrow.

1091
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:54,840
This is how life has to be when you open yourself up to those people and hearing those different

1092
01:09:54,840 --> 01:10:00,000
viewpoints, even with now with the political stuff.

1093
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:06,320
You can't have a differing view on politics because now all we do is yell about stuff

1094
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:10,820
instead of having a conversation and be like, all right, I didn't vote for this person.

1095
01:10:10,820 --> 01:10:12,120
Why did you vote for him?

1096
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:13,680
Or why do you believe this?

1097
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:18,560
And I've got to sit down because I had a lady when I was doing my master's work came in

1098
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:19,960
to the coffee shop.

1099
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,960
I used to go to Dunkin Donuts every weekend to study.

1100
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:27,400
And she comes up and she goes, you look like you voted for Trump.

1101
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:30,360
I was like, oh, this is not going to go well.

1102
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:31,360
Nice to meet you too.

1103
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:32,360
Yeah.

1104
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:33,800
I'm like, OK, I got the flat top.

1105
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:36,240
I know I look like a Marine and all this stuff.

1106
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:37,920
And so I'm like, fair enough.

1107
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:40,760
And it was this young Hispanic mom with a child.

1108
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:42,360
So I said I did.

1109
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:46,180
I said he wasn't my first choice, but that's who I did.

1110
01:10:46,180 --> 01:10:48,400
And she goes, can I sit down and talk to you?

1111
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:52,520
Because I'm curious why you voted for him versus her.

1112
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:55,120
So I'm like, sure.

1113
01:10:55,120 --> 01:11:00,080
We sat down for three hours and talked.

1114
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:05,320
And I would have never had the insights that I got from her.

1115
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:10,700
And it was there was never any yelling or screaming.

1116
01:11:10,700 --> 01:11:13,260
There was never any raising of the voices.

1117
01:11:13,260 --> 01:11:16,540
I think we both walked away and learned something.

1118
01:11:16,540 --> 01:11:20,160
And I've extended that into my classroom.

1119
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:21,680
I don't care who you're voting for.

1120
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:22,960
I don't care what side you're on.

1121
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:24,800
I don't care what your politics on.

1122
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:26,840
We're going to discuss stuff.

1123
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:29,560
And we're going to have open communications.

1124
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:32,040
And we're going to respect one another.

1125
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:33,840
You're not allowed to come in here

1126
01:11:33,840 --> 01:11:36,720
and say that you got your information from the media

1127
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:38,760
or that you got it from social media.

1128
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:39,880
Look at stuff.

1129
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:42,360
Do some research on it.

1130
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:47,840
And learn if somebody doesn't sign a bill you like, read it.

1131
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:49,320
Why didn't they sign it?

1132
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:50,920
Did you listen to the whole speech

1133
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:52,520
when they took that 10 seconds out?

1134
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:55,200
Or did you just listen to the 10 seconds that

1135
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:58,520
got their point across?

1136
01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:00,960
I listened to your episode with Tulsi Gabbard

1137
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,040
as well on the way to New York.

1138
01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:05,040
Love her to death.

1139
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:08,160
She's amazing.

1140
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:13,200
I thought she would have been a great pick for vice president.

1141
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:15,960
I thought if you want to bring this country together,

1142
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:16,840
I'm on the right.

1143
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:19,160
She's middle of the road.

1144
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:21,800
Let's work together and bring this country back together.

1145
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:25,000
I thought that would have been a great ticket.

1146
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:27,720
But that's if you want to bring the country back together.

1147
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:29,680
Yeah, makes too much sense.

1148
01:12:29,680 --> 01:12:30,920
You know what I mean?

1149
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:36,920
Yeah, to me, she's still doing the job.

1150
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:39,040
She's boots on the ground.

1151
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:41,360
And she does not have a filter.

1152
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:42,640
She tells it like it is.

1153
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:45,560
And that's the kind of people I want to hang around with.

1154
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:49,840
That's the people that I want to engage with.

1155
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:52,080
She represents most of the normal people, I think.

1156
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:54,600
Most of us are standing in the middle, looking left and right,

1157
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:57,240
and going, why are you all screaming?

1158
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:00,960
And why do we keep getting these people

1159
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:03,200
to choose from that aren't Tulsi Gabbard?

1160
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:05,920
That aren't all the people that actually excite us

1161
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:09,520
to stand in the middle, to get the obesity crisis

1162
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:12,040
and have served so they understand when to go to war

1163
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:13,120
and when not to go to war.

1164
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:15,200
I mean, all these important elements.

1165
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:16,800
But we don't.

1166
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:18,480
No matter how good they are, they never

1167
01:13:18,480 --> 01:13:21,560
get to the end because it's a corrupt, broken system.

1168
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:23,960
Yeah, and it's all about money.

1169
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:28,280
If you're going in as a senator or congressperson, whatever,

1170
01:13:28,280 --> 01:13:30,120
you're making $150,000 a year.

1171
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:32,600
But magically, at the end of the year,

1172
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:36,880
your tax returns say $15 million.

1173
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:41,200
So when I listened to her, I was like,

1174
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:43,560
she's spot on about everything.

1175
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,480
She didn't sugarcoat anything.

1176
01:13:46,480 --> 01:13:49,720
That's who I want to talk to.

1177
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:52,880
Because if we can't have these conversations,

1178
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:54,360
we're never going to get any better.

1179
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:56,240
You can't learn if all you do is hang around

1180
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:59,320
with the same people that have the same viewpoints.

1181
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:01,600
My son, we were talking earlier, and he was like, well,

1182
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:05,520
you posted something after the assassination attempt.

1183
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:08,800
And I posted, like, I'm a Christian.

1184
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:12,840
If you're arguing that Trump should have died,

1185
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:16,080
he shouldn't have moved, I got no place for you.

1186
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:18,520
I am supporting him in this election.

1187
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:22,320
Regardless, I voted both sides of the fence.

1188
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:26,160
But we have to have conversations.

1189
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:28,200
And I am open to talking to anybody.

1190
01:14:28,200 --> 01:14:29,800
You may change my mind about stuff.

1191
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:31,520
I don't know.

1192
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:34,200
But if we can't have those conversations,

1193
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:36,360
we're never going to get better as a people,

1194
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:39,360
as a country overall.

1195
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:41,760
And I was trying to explain to him

1196
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:45,040
because he just looked at it as like, oh, you posted this about.

1197
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:47,200
I said, you know, I probably lost a lot of friends

1198
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:51,080
when I posted that, or friends, I put that in quotes.

1199
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:53,440
And I probably had jobs that I could have gotten

1200
01:14:53,440 --> 01:14:56,040
that I won't get now.

1201
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:58,760
But I've spent so many years being told by people

1202
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:01,440
that mentor me, like, you have to stay right down the middle.

1203
01:15:01,440 --> 01:15:02,600
You can't talk about this.

1204
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:05,240
You can't talk about your faith.

1205
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:06,880
I'm not going to go out and preach to you.

1206
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:09,920
And my job is not to change your view on anything.

1207
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:14,640
But I'm also not going to allow myself

1208
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:20,240
to change what I believe in and what's important to me

1209
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:22,440
to make you happy.

1210
01:15:22,440 --> 01:15:27,320
When that happened, it was, you know, I saw just,

1211
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:29,160
you know, again, like you said, the trolls

1212
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:31,080
and some of the things.

1213
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:34,160
And I just, again, my whole thing with the Biden thing

1214
01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:36,640
was the people that were rah rah rah about him.

1215
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:39,480
I'm like, all right, you get on a plane

1216
01:15:39,480 --> 01:15:41,720
and you're about to take off and he comes out the cockpit

1217
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:43,560
and says, hi, I'm going to be your captain.

1218
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:45,520
Are you staying on the plane?

1219
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:48,360
Fuck no, you're not staying on the plane.

1220
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:52,040
No one, I mean, I can't imagine wishing that that bullet had

1221
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:55,080
hit anyone unless it was out of Hitler or some sex pest

1222
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:55,560
or something.

1223
01:15:55,560 --> 01:15:59,440
But aside from that, no, I absolutely

1224
01:15:59,440 --> 01:16:01,280
did not want that bullet to hit Trump.

1225
01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:05,640
But was he any better of a leader once it flew past him?

1226
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:06,400
No.

1227
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:08,800
And so people were acting like because it didn't hit him,

1228
01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:10,920
now all of a sudden he's fit to be the president.

1229
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:14,280
Like also, no, this is the middle of the road conversation.

1230
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:17,520
I'm glad that he wasn't hurt because he's a human being.

1231
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:21,360
But it didn't magically make him not a narcissist.

1232
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:23,360
That's completely self-indulgent.

1233
01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:25,880
So this is, again, these extremist voices

1234
01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:27,360
take you away from the middle, which

1235
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:31,200
is are either these two fit to be where they are

1236
01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:33,600
or have we got better people in the military

1237
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:36,320
and in the school system and whatever,

1238
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:40,120
that would be a phenomenal person that even if your person

1239
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:42,440
lost, you'd be like, well, I'm still

1240
01:16:42,440 --> 01:16:43,800
glad that other person went.

1241
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:46,160
They're not my favorite choice, but they're still

1242
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:47,200
going to do a good job.

1243
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:48,600
They're still going to be respected

1244
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:49,960
when they visit other countries.

1245
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:52,440
They're still going to be compassionate

1246
01:16:52,440 --> 01:16:54,800
and have communication when there's tension

1247
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:57,600
between certain areas, but then support our military

1248
01:16:57,600 --> 01:16:59,280
if we do have no choice and go in.

1249
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:00,160
You know what I mean?

1250
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:02,680
People that you can be confident will lead your country

1251
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:04,720
and represent your country well.

1252
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:09,280
But all we had was protecting a guy who clearly, sadly, is

1253
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:11,240
probably not going to be with us much longer

1254
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:14,400
and a complete narcissist who called

1255
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:17,320
for the death of five young boys in New York that

1256
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:19,520
were innocent of a rape.

1257
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:21,400
And he called for their execution

1258
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:23,280
in a national newspaper.

1259
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:24,880
We're not talking about that, are we?

1260
01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:25,480
You know what I mean?

1261
01:17:25,480 --> 01:17:26,360
So this is the thing.

1262
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:28,120
It's not about left or right.

1263
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:31,120
It's about the individuals that are placed in front of us.

1264
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:33,120
And if you can put your hand on your heart

1265
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:36,000
and say that if I had to choose from 1,000 people,

1266
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:39,520
I would choose Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump,

1267
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:41,240
you're a fucking liar.

1268
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:41,920
I'm sorry.

1269
01:17:41,920 --> 01:17:45,160
Or like you said, you're not looking out into the real world

1270
01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:48,040
and experiencing what leadership actually looks like.

1271
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:52,520
And you can't tell me that these parties, out

1272
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:54,760
of all the people that are in these parties,

1273
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:58,920
that's the two best people that you can put up.

1274
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:01,080
You have all these younger folks that

1275
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:05,000
are coming in that, because I believe

1276
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:08,360
when you come into any job like that,

1277
01:18:08,360 --> 01:18:10,320
that you're supposed to be serving the public,

1278
01:18:10,320 --> 01:18:13,200
you're doing it because you want to make a change.

1279
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:15,600
Somewhere along that line, things happen.

1280
01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:18,000
I think in politics, it gets down to the money,

1281
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:21,840
who's backing you, that kind of stuff.

1282
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:23,520
But something changes along there.

1283
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:27,000
And you see all these people.

1284
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:31,040
Four years ago, both sides said they wanted younger candidates.

1285
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:35,960
They put up the two oldest ones they got.

1286
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:39,200
So this time around, you can't tell me

1287
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:41,880
there's not better candidates that are out there

1288
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:43,320
that want to do stuff.

1289
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:46,200
But are they going to push for things

1290
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:50,600
like term limits, which are much needed?

1291
01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:53,040
Are you going to speak out against these people that

1292
01:18:53,040 --> 01:18:54,480
are funding all this stuff?

1293
01:18:54,480 --> 01:18:56,640
You're not going to, at the end of the day,

1294
01:18:56,640 --> 01:18:59,600
I think they all get together and have drinks afterwards.

1295
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:01,520
I mean, not just funding it.

1296
01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:03,920
Most of these companies are costing millions

1297
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:07,880
of American lives, whether it's big sugar or weapons

1298
01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:09,840
manufacturers or whatever.

1299
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:11,400
The number of people in the military,

1300
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:14,840
where is our checks and balances to stop us continuously

1301
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:16,080
being in wars?

1302
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:20,080
Because some people are making billions, if not trillions,

1303
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:22,480
of dollars when our men and women are coming home

1304
01:19:22,480 --> 01:19:23,160
in coffins.

1305
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:25,640
That needs to be a conversation.

1306
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:30,400
Yep, and you want this country to get better.

1307
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:32,120
They all talk about the same stuff.

1308
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:36,600
But at the end of the day, what have they done?

1309
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:40,160
They're not making changes to anything.

1310
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:43,840
Now, I will say when Trump won the presidency the first time

1311
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:47,440
as an officer, I felt like I was supported.

1312
01:19:47,440 --> 01:19:49,480
Yeah, they're not all bad.

1313
01:19:49,480 --> 01:19:51,520
Some of them are going to do some good things

1314
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:53,280
if you're in that group.

1315
01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:56,440
And like I said, I voted on both sides of the fence.

1316
01:19:56,440 --> 01:19:59,600
I try to listen to people and pick.

1317
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:04,640
I don't think people necessarily voted for Joe Biden last.

1318
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:07,880
I think they voted against they couldn't stand Trump.

1319
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:10,520
And they voted against him versus saying,

1320
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:12,800
oh, Joe Biden's a great candidate.

1321
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:14,040
Nothing gets him.

1322
01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:16,320
If you support him, you support him, that's your thing.

1323
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:19,400
But I think there was more of against they just

1324
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:22,920
couldn't stand Trump.

1325
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:29,120
And Lord knows what's going to happen in November.

1326
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:31,760
I've tried to stay away from that as much as possible

1327
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:33,560
and tried to stay apolitical.

1328
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:37,040
And I like to listen to people and have those conversations.

1329
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:39,880
It's interesting, too, when I get to talk to the students

1330
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:43,560
because we get a lot of students from all over the world.

1331
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:45,840
And you hear about stuff that's going on in their country,

1332
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:47,800
and you're like, it's not really bad here.

1333
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:49,000
No, exactly.

1334
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:50,480
But when are we reminded of that?

1335
01:20:50,480 --> 01:20:52,680
When is there gratitude?

1336
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:55,480
When people stand up on podiums and go, we are so amazing.

1337
01:20:55,480 --> 01:20:56,560
We need to come together.

1338
01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:58,360
But my god, look what we've got.

1339
01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:00,760
And imagine if we could fix obesity.

1340
01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:03,280
Imagine what that would do to our health care system.

1341
01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:05,760
Imagine the good we could do in other countries

1342
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:08,440
if we took care of some of our own stuff first.

1343
01:21:08,440 --> 01:21:10,360
To get you fired up, to get you excited,

1344
01:21:10,360 --> 01:21:12,160
to get you to look around and go, oh, there's

1345
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:15,000
not a race war outside my front door, actually.

1346
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:16,640
And it's a beautiful place.

1347
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:19,240
And the sun is shining and my kids are safe in this.

1348
01:21:19,240 --> 01:21:21,680
Whatever it is, but we're not reminded of that.

1349
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:22,960
It's all doom and gloom.

1350
01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:25,160
And it's all, this is what the other person did,

1351
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:28,840
rather than this is what we cumulatively, like us,

1352
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:31,480
as in not me, the president, but us as a nation,

1353
01:21:31,480 --> 01:21:34,640
if we come together, these are the most amazing things

1354
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:36,600
we can do in the next 10 years.

1355
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:38,120
We can make our schools safe again.

1356
01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:40,280
We can get people healthy again.

1357
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:42,720
We get people off all these fucking medications.

1358
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:44,200
But you don't, because the people

1359
01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:47,280
that make the medications are the ones paying the presidents.

1360
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:50,000
Well, and the young people, and I've

1361
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:54,240
got to see this at the school, because my first class

1362
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:57,960
that I teach, regardless of the class, is health and wellness.

1363
01:21:57,960 --> 01:22:01,720
And I tell them, people will tell these students all

1364
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:04,520
the time, this is the best time of your life.

1365
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:05,760
You've got it easy.

1366
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:07,720
You don't have to work.

1367
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:10,160
These kids are struggling.

1368
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:14,400
I've seen it in my own kids in elementary school.

1369
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:17,280
And especially after all the COVID stuff happened

1370
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:19,200
and everybody is locked in their house

1371
01:22:19,200 --> 01:22:23,080
and kept away from each other, these kids are struggling.

1372
01:22:23,080 --> 01:22:28,240
And they've gotten progressively worse and worse and worse

1373
01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:28,720
and worse.

1374
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:33,920
And we want to act like nothing's going on.

1375
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:36,040
And I talk about the health and wellness stuff.

1376
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:37,560
And then I have them write a paper

1377
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:39,800
about why they got to the college.

1378
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:40,880
What are they going to do?

1379
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:42,600
What's their goal?

1380
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:44,800
And what are they doing for their health and wellness

1381
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:46,160
while they're there?

1382
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:48,800
And I push that throughout the semester.

1383
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:52,200
And they will open up and tell me all this stuff

1384
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:56,600
that they're struggling with, that they've been through.

1385
01:22:56,600 --> 01:23:00,120
And yet when I start talking about different things,

1386
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:03,200
they're like, oh, I don't know if I could do like you did this

1387
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:04,520
or this person did that.

1388
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:06,320
And they're so great.

1389
01:23:06,320 --> 01:23:08,440
Look at all the stuff you've been through already,

1390
01:23:08,440 --> 01:23:12,040
especially as kids that are coming from these countries

1391
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:16,480
where they're fleeing to our country for their safety.

1392
01:23:16,480 --> 01:23:18,920
You've been through more just going through that

1393
01:23:18,920 --> 01:23:22,600
than most of us have as adults.

1394
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:23,680
And they don't see it.

1395
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:25,600
And they don't take the time.

1396
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:27,640
And this is across the board.

1397
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:31,160
We don't take the time to reflect on stuff.

1398
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:32,360
We don't take the time.

1399
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:33,240
I go quarterly.

1400
01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:36,600
I think I talked to you about this when we were at the event.

1401
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:38,600
I rent a cabin every four months somewhere.

1402
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:40,240
I try to find somewhere different,

1403
01:23:40,240 --> 01:23:44,480
leave the electronics, and I sit and look at where I'm at now,

1404
01:23:44,480 --> 01:23:47,120
where I've been since the last time I did it,

1405
01:23:47,120 --> 01:23:48,560
and where I want to go.

1406
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:52,160
And are my goals still the same?

1407
01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:54,200
What do I need to tweak?

1408
01:23:54,200 --> 01:23:55,640
Has something changed where I need

1409
01:23:55,640 --> 01:23:58,080
to go in a different direction?

1410
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:00,760
But I get to reflect on all this stuff.

1411
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:06,400
And it makes me so much more grateful for what I have

1412
01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:10,600
and what I have been through.

1413
01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:14,800
And then also starting the day, another thing

1414
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:18,080
I learned at Bouldercrest, starting the day with gratitude

1415
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:20,120
instead of getting up and picking up our phone

1416
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:21,640
and going, oh my god, I got to do this.

1417
01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:22,880
I got to do that.

1418
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:25,400
What are you grateful for?

1419
01:24:25,400 --> 01:24:29,600
Because there's so much that we have to be grateful for.

1420
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:32,360
Waking up is the first one.

1421
01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:33,840
I got up out of bed.

1422
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:37,200
Yeah, I'm on my bed.

1423
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:39,400
The day that the assassination attempt happened,

1424
01:24:39,400 --> 01:24:42,680
I'm going through trying to find information on social media

1425
01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:45,240
about it and found out one of my friends

1426
01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:47,240
that I have known since ninth grade.

1427
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:49,960
I met her the first day of ninth grade

1428
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:54,360
and talked to her since all the time.

1429
01:24:54,360 --> 01:24:55,200
She passed away.

1430
01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:57,920
They found her unresponsive in her apartment.

1431
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:00,200
They still don't know what happened.

1432
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:04,200
But I just talked to her like a week before.

1433
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:07,280
And it puts it into perspective.

1434
01:25:07,280 --> 01:25:10,160
I've had so many friends that have just

1435
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:15,440
died from the weirdest, whether it's suicide, drug overdoses,

1436
01:25:15,440 --> 01:25:17,960
car accidents.

1437
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:22,840
At my age, you're not supposed to be losing all these people.

1438
01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:24,800
At least that's my point of view.

1439
01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:26,000
I consider myself young.

1440
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:28,360
I just turned 52.

1441
01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:30,520
But I've had so many people I've lost.

1442
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:32,800
And every time I lose somebody, I'm like, man,

1443
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:35,520
I've really got to take a step back and look at where I'm at

1444
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:38,760
because tomorrow isn't promised.

1445
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:41,560
I don't know what I'm going to have.

1446
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:45,800
And I don't want my having two kids,

1447
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:51,400
that put my life in a whole other realm of perspective.

1448
01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:55,240
And my son last year, the month before I retired,

1449
01:25:55,240 --> 01:25:57,360
he collapsed walking to school.

1450
01:25:57,360 --> 01:25:59,320
And they called.

1451
01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:00,680
And I got a call on his phone.

1452
01:26:00,680 --> 01:26:03,080
I was running late for work.

1453
01:26:03,080 --> 01:26:05,600
And I'm like, why is he calling me?

1454
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:07,960
He's supposed to be in school when I picked the phone up.

1455
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:10,720
And it's his principal screaming.

1456
01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:11,960
He passed out.

1457
01:26:11,960 --> 01:26:13,360
They said he collapsed.

1458
01:26:13,360 --> 01:26:14,400
He wasn't breathing.

1459
01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:15,480
He was unresponsive.

1460
01:26:15,480 --> 01:26:18,800
And I was like, what?

1461
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:19,880
What are you talking about?

1462
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:21,160
And she was so panicked.

1463
01:26:21,160 --> 01:26:23,440
It was hard to get information out of her.

1464
01:26:23,440 --> 01:26:26,520
But in my mind, my son's dead.

1465
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:28,880
I can hear the first responders coming.

1466
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:31,320
I can hear them doing stuff in the background.

1467
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:32,800
I'm like, where are they taking him?

1468
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:33,960
I asked her four times.

1469
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:36,840
I finally get to the hospital.

1470
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:41,400
He woke up in the hospital room, doesn't remember any of it,

1471
01:26:41,400 --> 01:26:44,040
and just gave me the biggest hug.

1472
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:46,360
And I can tell you, everything that

1473
01:26:46,360 --> 01:26:49,840
had been going on in my life to that point

1474
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:52,840
didn't mean anything.

1475
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:54,320
They didn't think I was coming back

1476
01:26:54,320 --> 01:26:57,760
for the last month of work.

1477
01:26:57,760 --> 01:26:59,320
Because I had called my boss to say, hey,

1478
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:01,240
I'm running a little late.

1479
01:27:01,240 --> 01:27:02,880
And then I called him back a few minutes later,

1480
01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:04,080
like, hey, I'm on the way to the hospital.

1481
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:04,840
My kid collapsed.

1482
01:27:04,840 --> 01:27:07,400
I think they think he's dead.

1483
01:27:07,400 --> 01:27:09,040
That was the last time I talked to him.

1484
01:27:09,040 --> 01:27:11,280
And they were like, we didn't think you were coming back.

1485
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:13,040
And it took us, that was in October,

1486
01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:18,320
it took us to February to find out what the cause of it was.

1487
01:27:18,320 --> 01:27:22,240
And of course, they're checking for you get to the hospital.

1488
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:25,840
And they're testing for fentanyl and everything else,

1489
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:28,000
because all the crap that's going on.

1490
01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:30,720
And he had a seizure.

1491
01:27:30,720 --> 01:27:32,560
Never had happened before.

1492
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:35,640
And so he's got to go through all these tests and stuff.

1493
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:38,760
And now it's navigating all the things

1494
01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:42,000
he wanted to do to explain to him,

1495
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:43,760
like, you're not going to be able to do this.

1496
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:47,480
Or you can't do this because this is going on.

1497
01:27:47,480 --> 01:27:55,240
And having to tell somebody that he turns 14 next weekend

1498
01:27:55,240 --> 01:27:57,640
what you've thought about doing your entire life,

1499
01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:01,400
now you're not going to be able to do it.

1500
01:28:01,400 --> 01:28:04,440
And I had to sit and tell him, like, look,

1501
01:28:04,440 --> 01:28:07,240
you've got this path going.

1502
01:28:07,240 --> 01:28:08,560
Now you've got a bump in the road.

1503
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:09,920
And we're going to sit down.

1504
01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:12,320
We've got to figure out how we can overcome this,

1505
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:16,920
get around it, to blaze a new one.

1506
01:28:16,920 --> 01:28:18,920
Because he's completely overwhelmed by it.

1507
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:25,600
Every time I think about it, I start crying.

1508
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:30,440
And at this point, I don't care with me

1509
01:28:30,440 --> 01:28:31,840
what happens anymore with me.

1510
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:34,480
It's about them.

1511
01:28:34,480 --> 01:28:35,960
I want them to grow up.

1512
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:37,240
I want them to be happy.

1513
01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:40,240
I want them to have a great life.

1514
01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:43,200
I want to see them get married, do whatever

1515
01:28:43,200 --> 01:28:46,240
they decide they want to do.

1516
01:28:46,240 --> 01:28:48,560
But that put everything in perspective to me.

1517
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:51,720
And I believe that all this stuff happens to us,

1518
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:54,280
whatever it is, because sometimes we

1519
01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:55,600
need to be kicked in the pants.

1520
01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:58,880
And you need to slow down and stop thinking about yourself

1521
01:28:58,880 --> 01:29:00,640
all the time.

1522
01:29:00,640 --> 01:29:06,000
And look at how life's going, even with COVID.

1523
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:08,320
While I was working the whole time,

1524
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:10,800
my wife and my kids were stuck at home.

1525
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:13,480
And to me, you had all these people

1526
01:29:13,480 --> 01:29:15,280
with the conspiracy stuff and all this.

1527
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:18,640
And we all have our thoughts on it.

1528
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:21,080
To me, that was a calling that we

1529
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:24,800
needed to be reminded of what was important to us.

1530
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:26,000
It's not the job.

1531
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:27,120
It's not the money.

1532
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:29,680
It's your family.

1533
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:35,280
It's being at home and not missing out on so much stuff.

1534
01:29:35,280 --> 01:29:38,520
Because we get so caught up in this day-to-day crap that

1535
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:42,320
doesn't mean anything, and we forget about that.

1536
01:29:42,320 --> 01:29:43,400
Absolutely.

1537
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:46,520
Well, I want to go back to the Pentagon,

1538
01:29:46,520 --> 01:29:49,320
not to draw out horrors, but the opposite.

1539
01:29:49,320 --> 01:29:51,920
One of the terms that came out during COVID a lot

1540
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:53,960
was, I miss 912.

1541
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:57,200
And forget about the whole mismanagement of it,

1542
01:29:57,200 --> 01:29:58,660
because it was an absolute shit show.

1543
01:29:58,660 --> 01:30:00,560
I think it was absolutely a real virus.

1544
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:03,080
And a lot of my medical friends bagged a lot of bodies.

1545
01:30:03,080 --> 01:30:03,840
So it was real.

1546
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:05,760
But the takeaway should have been,

1547
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:08,680
let's make people healthier, not let's hide from a virus.

1548
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:12,680
But that being said, there was that kind of division

1549
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:13,640
and that isolation.

1550
01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:16,800
And people really kind of romanticized about 912.

1551
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:20,640
Now, obviously, usually that lens is in Manhattan.

1552
01:30:20,640 --> 01:30:23,800
Talk to me about the heroism, the community, the compassion

1553
01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:26,920
that you saw from the Pentagon side.

1554
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:30,880
So I will go even to 911 and 1 1.5,

1555
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:35,400
because at one point in the early evening, I turned around

1556
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:41,040
and I saw our judges coming out, sleeves rolled up,

1557
01:30:41,040 --> 01:30:45,200
bringing us food, water, people from the community

1558
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:47,960
were bringing stuff.

1559
01:30:47,960 --> 01:30:52,760
People were bringing little boots for the dogs.

1560
01:30:52,760 --> 01:30:55,880
And the next day, you had all these restaurants and stuff

1561
01:30:55,880 --> 01:30:56,400
coming in.

1562
01:30:56,400 --> 01:30:59,760
The parking lot of the Pentagon turned into this one stop

1563
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:02,160
shop for the responders.

1564
01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:04,120
You could get t-shirts, underwear, food,

1565
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:05,160
whatever you needed.

1566
01:31:05,160 --> 01:31:06,960
It was there.

1567
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:10,680
The community came together.

1568
01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:18,080
Now, I did see stuff where you had Middle Eastern citizens

1569
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:20,800
that were treated horribly.

1570
01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:24,960
Even people that we had worked with forever,

1571
01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:27,440
suddenly were like, oh, we have to do this

1572
01:31:27,440 --> 01:31:30,240
because we don't know what's going on.

1573
01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:32,960
Bullshit.

1574
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:39,040
Majority of people came together at that time.

1575
01:31:39,040 --> 01:31:42,920
And it was something that had never happened before.

1576
01:31:42,920 --> 01:31:45,280
You didn't have any of the negativity.

1577
01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:47,560
You didn't have any of the calling each other out.

1578
01:31:47,560 --> 01:31:49,640
Everybody would come in and be like, how are you?

1579
01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:50,440
Are you doing OK?

1580
01:31:50,440 --> 01:31:51,360
It's great to see you.

1581
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:52,720
How's your day going?

1582
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:56,320
You didn't have traffic incidents going on.

1583
01:31:56,320 --> 01:31:59,280
It was amusing to me, especially in New York City,

1584
01:31:59,280 --> 01:32:02,280
because you know the thought of going through New York City,

1585
01:32:02,280 --> 01:32:04,400
everybody's yelling at you and all this honking horns

1586
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:04,920
and stuff.

1587
01:32:04,920 --> 01:32:07,120
You didn't have any of that.

1588
01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:14,000
And we have been so far away from that

1589
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:17,840
long before COVID happened.

1590
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:22,840
The country has been divided in so many different places.

1591
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:24,800
And it would be great to get back to that point

1592
01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:28,480
because you had people came out of the woodwork

1593
01:32:28,480 --> 01:32:29,720
to help with everything.

1594
01:32:29,720 --> 01:32:32,200
And they wanted to make sure you were OK.

1595
01:32:32,200 --> 01:32:36,960
They were helping people that had lost people.

1596
01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:40,480
I remember we went up to, my wife at the time,

1597
01:32:40,480 --> 01:32:46,080
we went up to New York City for New Year's Eve, 2001

1598
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:48,840
going into 2002.

1599
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:50,040
They wanted to go up there.

1600
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:51,480
And I'm just like, OK, whatever.

1601
01:32:51,480 --> 01:32:54,040
Not even thinking about it.

1602
01:32:54,040 --> 01:32:56,880
Then we get up there, and my father-in-law was like,

1603
01:32:56,880 --> 01:33:00,480
oh, we want to go down to see Ground Zero.

1604
01:33:00,480 --> 01:33:01,880
So again, not thinking about it.

1605
01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:03,640
I'm like, whatever you want to do, I'll go.

1606
01:33:03,640 --> 01:33:08,640
Our area was a clusterfuck at the Pentagon.

1607
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:15,600
I cannot even begin to imagine New York City going up there.

1608
01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:19,160
And they still had the fences up with the pictures

1609
01:33:19,160 --> 01:33:21,000
of all the missing people.

1610
01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:24,280
There were groups in the street that were praying for people.

1611
01:33:24,280 --> 01:33:26,640
And my father-in-law starts going around going,

1612
01:33:26,640 --> 01:33:30,280
oh, my son was at the Pentagon and responded to this.

1613
01:33:30,280 --> 01:33:32,440
And so all these people are coming up to me

1614
01:33:32,440 --> 01:33:35,120
and trying to shake my hand and thank me.

1615
01:33:35,120 --> 01:33:38,320
And I'm like, I don't want this.

1616
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:40,120
I don't want to be part of this.

1617
01:33:40,120 --> 01:33:42,240
I don't want.

1618
01:33:42,240 --> 01:33:45,040
And I'm trying to be gracious and do everything,

1619
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:47,120
but it was so uncomfortable.

1620
01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:54,360
But it gave me a different perspective.

1621
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:56,920
Our area was bad, but then you always

1622
01:33:56,920 --> 01:33:59,400
have that place that's worse, regardless

1623
01:33:59,400 --> 01:34:00,760
of what you're going through.

1624
01:34:00,760 --> 01:34:03,120
And I remember standing out on that overlook,

1625
01:34:03,120 --> 01:34:09,120
just thinking, man, I can't even imagine.

1626
01:34:09,120 --> 01:34:11,600
And now I teach and I talk to the students,

1627
01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:13,200
and they're like, we weren't even alive.

1628
01:34:13,200 --> 01:34:14,560
So I'm like, great, thanks for making

1629
01:34:14,560 --> 01:34:17,840
me feel like an ancient old guy.

1630
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:20,080
But I play a little video where they

1631
01:34:20,080 --> 01:34:23,840
get to hear the actual phone calls

1632
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:26,160
and the calls from the cockpits and the calls

1633
01:34:26,160 --> 01:34:29,560
from the stewardesses and the flight attendants.

1634
01:34:29,560 --> 01:34:34,240
And the towers and the people that were in the tower,

1635
01:34:34,240 --> 01:34:38,640
calling 911 saying we're stuck up here.

1636
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:42,440
Because we've forgotten about that.

1637
01:34:42,440 --> 01:34:45,480
I want you to hear the personal side of this.

1638
01:34:45,480 --> 01:34:49,200
I want you to never forget this ever again.

1639
01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:53,680
Because these were people that got up one morning

1640
01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:56,880
and went to work, not knowing it was

1641
01:34:56,880 --> 01:34:58,680
going to be their last day.

1642
01:34:58,680 --> 01:35:03,680
And how often do we walk out of the door angry

1643
01:35:03,680 --> 01:35:11,400
at our friends, our family, our spouse, our kids, not knowing?

1644
01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:14,680
And we forget about that.

1645
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:18,680
I got the 912 hat and all that.

1646
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:23,680
Because to be able to get to that point would be great.

1647
01:35:23,680 --> 01:35:26,440
Do I think we're ever going to get there?

1648
01:35:26,440 --> 01:35:27,680
Probably not.

1649
01:35:27,680 --> 01:35:30,080
I think that there's going to be groups of people

1650
01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:33,720
that are going to be OK with it, but that are going

1651
01:35:33,720 --> 01:35:34,800
to look forward to that.

1652
01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:39,880
And like you said, with your group from your firehouse,

1653
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:42,920
you have those people that come into your life that are just

1654
01:35:42,920 --> 01:35:45,880
there, the glue that holds everything together.

1655
01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:48,320
I have people like that at my department

1656
01:35:48,320 --> 01:35:49,600
that have reached out to me.

1657
01:35:49,600 --> 01:35:52,480
I just had one of my guys that used to work for me

1658
01:35:52,480 --> 01:35:54,000
reach out to me last night to say,

1659
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:55,800
hey, I bought your book for my granddaughter.

1660
01:35:55,800 --> 01:35:59,040
And she thinks it's cool that I worked with famous people.

1661
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:02,920
And I'm like, dude, I'm not famous by any stretch.

1662
01:36:02,920 --> 01:36:05,760
And he goes, well, I know differently.

1663
01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:10,440
Or a young officer that I took her, she had done something.

1664
01:36:10,440 --> 01:36:12,320
She was going to get disciplined for it.

1665
01:36:12,320 --> 01:36:16,400
But I said, let's go grab a cup of coffee across the street

1666
01:36:16,400 --> 01:36:18,320
and just breathe.

1667
01:36:18,320 --> 01:36:22,200
I have to do this because you violated a policy.

1668
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:24,120
But it's not the end of the world.

1669
01:36:24,120 --> 01:36:26,720
And you're no different to me now.

1670
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:29,400
Let's just go breathe for a minute.

1671
01:36:29,400 --> 01:36:31,240
Because you're going to see there's

1672
01:36:31,240 --> 01:36:33,120
nobody that's high up in these agencies

1673
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:36,520
that haven't done dumb things.

1674
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:38,840
And you're young, starting out in this career.

1675
01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:40,120
And you're like, oh my god.

1676
01:36:40,120 --> 01:36:41,800
And you always think the world's going

1677
01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:44,400
to end your kids when they have relationships

1678
01:36:44,400 --> 01:36:45,120
and they break up.

1679
01:36:45,120 --> 01:36:47,960
And they're like, oh my god, the world's over.

1680
01:36:47,960 --> 01:36:49,680
Yeah, it is at that moment in time.

1681
01:36:49,680 --> 01:36:53,240
But you need to see all the other things you have.

1682
01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:56,320
All the other things you have around you.

1683
01:36:56,320 --> 01:37:01,760
And if we could get back to that point, it would be amazing.

1684
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:04,240
I'll take what I can get.

1685
01:37:04,240 --> 01:37:07,720
I get to go, I'm blessed.

1686
01:37:07,720 --> 01:37:10,320
Just like you with all the people you get to meet,

1687
01:37:10,320 --> 01:37:14,960
I get to go out and meet some amazing, amazing people

1688
01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:19,880
and hear their stories and share their journeys with them.

1689
01:37:19,880 --> 01:37:24,240
And because I did a thing one day.

1690
01:37:27,560 --> 01:37:31,320
There was a Memorial Day parade they did in DC.

1691
01:37:31,320 --> 01:37:34,360
And they were like, oh, we're having 9-11 responders come.

1692
01:37:34,360 --> 01:37:35,520
We want to honor you guys.

1693
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:36,800
So I'm like, all right, whatever.

1694
01:37:36,800 --> 01:37:37,920
I'll come.

1695
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:39,720
So they're like, park your SUV.

1696
01:37:39,720 --> 01:37:41,200
We're going to come pick you up.

1697
01:37:41,200 --> 01:37:42,360
And we're going to take you.

1698
01:37:42,360 --> 01:37:45,280
They want to interview you for TV or whatever.

1699
01:37:45,280 --> 01:37:47,020
I don't remember what it was.

1700
01:37:47,020 --> 01:37:49,320
So I get outside the tent.

1701
01:37:49,320 --> 01:37:50,280
We're riding over there.

1702
01:37:50,280 --> 01:37:53,520
And they were like, oh, do you know Pat Sajak?

1703
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:54,480
I know who he is.

1704
01:37:54,480 --> 01:37:55,040
I don't know him.

1705
01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:56,080
He's sitting right in front of me.

1706
01:37:56,080 --> 01:38:00,360
I didn't realize he was in the military.

1707
01:38:00,360 --> 01:38:04,080
Lieutenant Dan was sitting in front of me.

1708
01:38:04,080 --> 01:38:05,320
Gary Sinise.

1709
01:38:05,320 --> 01:38:07,480
Yeah, he's something I want to get on here one day.

1710
01:38:07,480 --> 01:38:09,560
I mean, that man was incredible.

1711
01:38:09,560 --> 01:38:11,080
Yeah, that guy.

1712
01:38:11,080 --> 01:38:13,480
And I'm like, I'm awestruck.

1713
01:38:13,480 --> 01:38:16,080
But then they go, and this brother and sister,

1714
01:38:16,080 --> 01:38:21,760
their family was on their mom and dad were lost on flight 93.

1715
01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:23,840
I completely turned away from the other two.

1716
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:25,600
It was great to meet them.

1717
01:38:25,600 --> 01:38:27,480
But that's who I wanted to meet.

1718
01:38:27,480 --> 01:38:28,800
And I get up to this tent.

1719
01:38:28,800 --> 01:38:30,000
And they're like, don't go anywhere.

1720
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:32,560
Somebody wants to meet you before you go in there.

1721
01:38:32,560 --> 01:38:35,240
And it was Buzz Aldrin.

1722
01:38:35,240 --> 01:38:37,440
And he comes up, and he was like, thanks

1723
01:38:37,440 --> 01:38:39,000
for what you did that day.

1724
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:40,360
And I'm like, are you kidding me?

1725
01:38:40,360 --> 01:38:41,580
You landed on the frickin' moon.

1726
01:38:41,580 --> 01:38:43,440
What are you doing?

1727
01:38:43,440 --> 01:38:46,480
I did my job, that's all I did.

1728
01:38:46,480 --> 01:38:48,560
But you see these people.

1729
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:50,640
And I try to tell my son, I'm like, these folks

1730
01:38:50,640 --> 01:38:52,920
that you idolize and stuff, they're

1731
01:38:52,920 --> 01:38:56,520
no different than me and you.

1732
01:38:56,520 --> 01:39:01,320
I got to meet Shaquille O'Neal, one of the most down to earth.

1733
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:03,700
And he's like, oh, man, it's got to be great to be a cop.

1734
01:39:03,700 --> 01:39:06,600
I'm like, I'll switch with you.

1735
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:09,040
I'll take your money and you go play some basketball.

1736
01:39:09,040 --> 01:39:10,680
You want to be a cop.

1737
01:39:10,680 --> 01:39:13,040
I think he was like the officer for a little bit.

1738
01:39:13,040 --> 01:39:14,920
Here in Orlando, I think.

1739
01:39:14,920 --> 01:39:15,560
He was.

1740
01:39:15,560 --> 01:39:22,000
And he's one of the most down to earth people you will ever meet.

1741
01:39:22,000 --> 01:39:23,760
Yeah, another guy I want to get on the show.

1742
01:39:23,760 --> 01:39:27,440
Because I mean, his altruism is incredible, too.

1743
01:39:27,440 --> 01:39:29,720
And I tell my son, too, you look at what

1744
01:39:29,720 --> 01:39:32,320
he's done with his career, and especially how many athletes

1745
01:39:32,320 --> 01:39:35,600
have lost everything after they leave.

1746
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:37,300
And he even says, somebody pulled me aside

1747
01:39:37,300 --> 01:39:38,640
and said, you need to manage your money.

1748
01:39:38,640 --> 01:39:39,560
You need to do this.

1749
01:39:39,560 --> 01:39:42,480
And now he owns everything.

1750
01:39:42,480 --> 01:39:46,920
And he goes out of his way to help people.

1751
01:39:46,920 --> 01:39:49,680
And that's the kind of people you get fortunate enough

1752
01:39:49,680 --> 01:39:51,040
to meet.

1753
01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:54,080
And I got yelled at from my wife I don't know how many times

1754
01:39:54,080 --> 01:39:57,600
about giving books away and you're not making any money.

1755
01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:01,400
I may not be making huge amounts of money,

1756
01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:03,640
but if I'm helping people, that's

1757
01:40:03,640 --> 01:40:04,800
why I got in to do this.

1758
01:40:04,800 --> 01:40:06,320
That was the whole mission statement

1759
01:40:06,320 --> 01:40:09,760
of Catalysts of Change was to provide first responders

1760
01:40:09,760 --> 01:40:12,720
and military vets the tools to overcome the traumas that they

1761
01:40:12,720 --> 01:40:14,600
faced.

1762
01:40:14,600 --> 01:40:17,920
It wasn't to make money.

1763
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:19,360
If that comes along, great.

1764
01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:22,000
But I want to be able to help people not

1765
01:40:22,000 --> 01:40:23,720
go through what I did.

1766
01:40:23,720 --> 01:40:25,360
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

1767
01:40:25,360 --> 01:40:26,720
This podcast is free.

1768
01:40:26,720 --> 01:40:30,360
I have sponsors on it who their stuff is amazing, and I use it.

1769
01:40:30,360 --> 01:40:32,200
And that's why I want to tell people, hey,

1770
01:40:32,200 --> 01:40:34,360
if you're going to buy supplements, go to Thorne.

1771
01:40:34,360 --> 01:40:37,040
If you want to decompress this into Newcom,

1772
01:40:37,040 --> 01:40:38,480
I mean, they're phenomenal.

1773
01:40:38,480 --> 01:40:41,440
But there's no Patreon, there's no VIP access,

1774
01:40:41,440 --> 01:40:42,640
because I'm the same as you.

1775
01:40:42,640 --> 01:40:45,480
And I've got books behind me that I give out all the time

1776
01:40:45,480 --> 01:40:46,400
as well.

1777
01:40:46,400 --> 01:40:50,160
I want to get to writing, but just before we do,

1778
01:40:50,160 --> 01:40:52,120
you talked about the darkest place,

1779
01:40:52,120 --> 01:40:54,480
and I want to talk about Boldocrest as well in a minute.

1780
01:40:54,480 --> 01:40:57,480
But I think it's important to reflect on this too.

1781
01:40:57,480 --> 01:41:01,680
When 20 years ago, you and I are sitting across from a table

1782
01:41:01,680 --> 01:41:03,440
and we're talking about suicide, chances

1783
01:41:03,440 --> 01:41:05,560
are we'd probably be like, man, I can't believe it.

1784
01:41:05,560 --> 01:41:06,440
It's so selfish.

1785
01:41:06,440 --> 01:41:08,000
It's cowardly, blah, blah, blah.

1786
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:09,600
The old rhetoric.

1787
01:41:09,600 --> 01:41:11,520
And then the last eight years, I've

1788
01:41:11,520 --> 01:41:13,840
listened to so many people who have been right there.

1789
01:41:13,840 --> 01:41:15,680
Some people went through with their attempts,

1790
01:41:15,680 --> 01:41:17,560
and thank God they survived it.

1791
01:41:17,560 --> 01:41:21,240
And what I've heard over and over and over again

1792
01:41:21,240 --> 01:41:23,960
is, of course, wanting that suffering to end.

1793
01:41:23,960 --> 01:41:25,760
But one thing that's really never mentioned

1794
01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:31,440
is that brain is so miswired that someone's reality actually

1795
01:41:31,440 --> 01:41:35,560
becomes, I am the reason for my family's pain.

1796
01:41:35,560 --> 01:41:36,920
And I'm in a profession where I've

1797
01:41:36,920 --> 01:41:38,800
sworn to die for strangers.

1798
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:41,360
Well, if I remove myself from this dynamic,

1799
01:41:41,360 --> 01:41:42,840
then my family will be happy.

1800
01:41:42,840 --> 01:41:46,240
I am a burden to the people that I love.

1801
01:41:46,240 --> 01:41:47,360
Talk to me about that.

1802
01:41:47,360 --> 01:41:48,840
Did that factor into your brain when

1803
01:41:48,840 --> 01:41:51,720
you were getting close to the end?

1804
01:41:51,720 --> 01:41:53,880
Yes.

1805
01:41:53,880 --> 01:41:56,040
I was not sleeping.

1806
01:41:56,040 --> 01:41:56,920
I wasn't eating.

1807
01:41:59,680 --> 01:42:02,520
I felt like I was a burden to everybody.

1808
01:42:02,520 --> 01:42:04,480
I felt like everything I did was wrong.

1809
01:42:04,480 --> 01:42:08,880
It just magnified after my wife left.

1810
01:42:08,880 --> 01:42:19,920
And being able to look back now and reflect on it,

1811
01:42:19,920 --> 01:42:23,640
I've gotten asked questions by two people that have really

1812
01:42:23,640 --> 01:42:26,400
made me stop and think.

1813
01:42:26,400 --> 01:42:33,080
I had a lady whose son completed suicide when he was 17.

1814
01:42:33,080 --> 01:42:36,000
And we met, I was going to be working with her at an event.

1815
01:42:36,000 --> 01:42:40,120
And she said to me, how come you had that moment of clarity

1816
01:42:40,120 --> 01:42:41,080
and my son didn't?

1817
01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:46,600
And then I had the young woman that I

1818
01:42:46,600 --> 01:42:48,960
escorted during police week.

1819
01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:54,600
She's got four beautiful kids.

1820
01:42:54,600 --> 01:42:56,480
Her dad was there.

1821
01:42:56,480 --> 01:43:01,720
And she said that her daughter had asked her,

1822
01:43:01,720 --> 01:43:05,320
did dad say he loved us in his note?

1823
01:43:05,320 --> 01:43:06,600
And I didn't let her finish.

1824
01:43:06,600 --> 01:43:08,520
And I said he didn't, did he?

1825
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:09,480
And she said no.

1826
01:43:09,480 --> 01:43:10,920
And I looked down at the kids.

1827
01:43:10,920 --> 01:43:14,640
And I said, I can't offer you much.

1828
01:43:14,640 --> 01:43:19,480
I said, but I can tell you from being at that place

1829
01:43:19,480 --> 01:43:21,760
that you're in a fog.

1830
01:43:21,760 --> 01:43:23,520
You're not thinking correctly.

1831
01:43:23,520 --> 01:43:25,560
No matter what anybody tells you,

1832
01:43:25,560 --> 01:43:29,320
no matter people saying you're great, you're special,

1833
01:43:29,320 --> 01:43:33,640
this, this, whatever, you can't see it.

1834
01:43:33,640 --> 01:43:41,560
And there's no way that your husband completed that act

1835
01:43:41,560 --> 01:43:43,360
without being in that fog.

1836
01:43:43,360 --> 01:43:47,480
Because he couldn't look down at your kids or at you and do that.

1837
01:43:51,960 --> 01:43:55,200
I battled for years still.

1838
01:43:55,200 --> 01:43:57,440
I mean, I still have times where I'll go out on the road

1839
01:43:57,440 --> 01:44:01,160
to speak, and I get done, and I beat myself up,

1840
01:44:01,160 --> 01:44:02,960
and I'm like, oh, this didn't go that way,

1841
01:44:02,960 --> 01:44:04,560
or that didn't go that way.

1842
01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:07,640
And stuff will start creeping back in.

1843
01:44:07,640 --> 01:44:11,040
And there's nothing worse than when you're on the road

1844
01:44:11,040 --> 01:44:13,760
by yourself for that.

1845
01:44:13,760 --> 01:44:15,360
Because there's always those demons,

1846
01:44:15,360 --> 01:44:16,680
and they're just waiting for you.

1847
01:44:16,680 --> 01:44:18,200
And to me, that's what PTSD is.

1848
01:44:18,200 --> 01:44:20,480
It's that abyss is just sitting there,

1849
01:44:20,480 --> 01:44:24,760
and it's just waiting for the right opportunity to get you.

1850
01:44:24,760 --> 01:44:33,440
And I have been able, I don't think anything that I do

1851
01:44:33,440 --> 01:44:36,400
is magnificent, stellar, special,

1852
01:44:36,400 --> 01:44:37,520
there's nothing like that.

1853
01:44:40,480 --> 01:44:44,000
But I constantly have people tell me that.

1854
01:44:44,000 --> 01:44:51,120
And I'm very, I'm blessed from that day.

1855
01:44:51,120 --> 01:44:53,880
Because if you had told me 20 years ago,

1856
01:44:53,880 --> 01:44:57,000
I would be teaching, and speaking, and written five

1857
01:44:57,000 --> 01:44:59,280
books, and all this stuff, be sitting on your show

1858
01:44:59,280 --> 01:45:01,080
with all the people you've had on there.

1859
01:45:01,080 --> 01:45:03,280
I was just talking to my chief yesterday.

1860
01:45:03,280 --> 01:45:05,600
I was like, I'm going on this show,

1861
01:45:05,600 --> 01:45:07,000
and I sent him your website.

1862
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:08,960
And I'm like, all these people he's had on there,

1863
01:45:08,960 --> 01:45:10,680
and then he's got me.

1864
01:45:10,680 --> 01:45:12,760
They all say the same thing, I promise you.

1865
01:45:12,760 --> 01:45:14,280
Even some of the ones that are well known,

1866
01:45:14,280 --> 01:45:16,480
they're like, oh, you had So-and-So, you had Wim Hof,

1867
01:45:16,480 --> 01:45:18,000
or whoever.

1868
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:19,600
It never ends.

1869
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:23,840
And he's like, dude, don't downplay what you've done.

1870
01:45:23,840 --> 01:45:24,840
Exactly.

1871
01:45:24,840 --> 01:45:26,400
He's right.

1872
01:45:26,400 --> 01:45:31,960
But it's hard to, I think the reason I connect with people

1873
01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:35,840
when I'm out speaking is because of the fact

1874
01:45:35,840 --> 01:45:39,760
that I can give them that point of view.

1875
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:41,680
You don't expect, I mean, you can't tell,

1876
01:45:41,680 --> 01:45:43,640
because you're only seeing my shoulders here.

1877
01:45:43,640 --> 01:45:44,600
I'm a big dude.

1878
01:45:44,600 --> 01:45:47,040
I'm 6'3", 280 pounds.

1879
01:45:47,040 --> 01:45:48,960
You don't expect me to be standing in front

1880
01:45:48,960 --> 01:45:52,760
of you crying about stuff, especially when I tell my story

1881
01:45:52,760 --> 01:45:55,120
about all the stuff that I've done.

1882
01:45:55,120 --> 01:45:59,000
I'm not the guy you expect to be writing children's books

1883
01:45:59,000 --> 01:46:02,000
and doing all that stuff.

1884
01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:04,280
But I think that's the reason I connect with people,

1885
01:46:04,280 --> 01:46:07,840
because going through that, dealing with the stuff

1886
01:46:07,840 --> 01:46:11,320
that I've dealt with, and being given the opportunities

1887
01:46:11,320 --> 01:46:16,760
that I have, and being able to see the opportunities

1888
01:46:16,760 --> 01:46:21,560
that I have, people that are struggling,

1889
01:46:21,560 --> 01:46:23,840
they can't see this stuff with them.

1890
01:46:23,840 --> 01:46:26,400
So when they hear somebody else has gone through it

1891
01:46:26,400 --> 01:46:31,000
and made it past it, it gives them hope.

1892
01:46:31,000 --> 01:46:34,360
We did, this is another, this is how I got

1893
01:46:34,360 --> 01:46:37,880
into Operation Enduring Warrior.

1894
01:46:37,880 --> 01:46:40,560
This guy, Chris, he calls me, and I can't remember

1895
01:46:40,560 --> 01:46:42,920
if I talked about this at the event,

1896
01:46:42,920 --> 01:46:47,480
but we started carrying rucksacks with a pound of weight

1897
01:46:47,480 --> 01:46:50,760
for every law enforcement first responder suicide.

1898
01:46:50,760 --> 01:46:53,200
And he started doing this, and it got to be June,

1899
01:46:53,200 --> 01:46:56,080
and I'm like, this guy's got like 66 pounds on him already.

1900
01:46:56,080 --> 01:46:57,040
He's gonna get crushed.

1901
01:46:57,040 --> 01:46:58,200
So I reached out to him, I'm like,

1902
01:46:58,200 --> 01:46:59,840
hey, can I help carry weight?

1903
01:46:59,840 --> 01:47:01,240
He's like, you can do whatever the hell you want.

1904
01:47:01,240 --> 01:47:02,960
I don't care if you wanna do it, do it.

1905
01:47:02,960 --> 01:47:06,880
And he goes, I walk, I shoot this little video,

1906
01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:09,760
and I talk about whatever's on my mind, and I post it.

1907
01:47:10,840 --> 01:47:13,320
So I start carrying the weight, and it gets to be in the fall,

1908
01:47:13,320 --> 01:47:16,320
and it's over 100 pounds, and I'm like, this shit is heavy.

1909
01:47:17,280 --> 01:47:19,480
You know, I had my knee replaced, my shoulders,

1910
01:47:19,480 --> 01:47:24,480
I've broken my neck, and so I wasn't carrying the weight

1911
01:47:24,960 --> 01:47:27,360
one day, and I would walk at night,

1912
01:47:27,360 --> 01:47:29,600
so I'm like, I can be slick, I can carry the backpack,

1913
01:47:29,600 --> 01:47:32,440
and I'll have all the, he saw I wasn't carrying the backpack,

1914
01:47:32,440 --> 01:47:34,840
and he called me out, and this dude from day one

1915
01:47:34,840 --> 01:47:36,160
called me out on stuff.

1916
01:47:37,960 --> 01:47:40,240
Pissed me off every time he did it, but he was right,

1917
01:47:40,240 --> 01:47:44,920
and he gave me, one of the best dudes I've ever met in my life,

1918
01:47:44,920 --> 01:47:47,560
and he was like, you're not carrying the weight.

1919
01:47:47,560 --> 01:47:51,720
So I'm like, damn it, of course he's gonna catch it.

1920
01:47:51,720 --> 01:47:54,280
So I went online and told him the next day,

1921
01:47:54,280 --> 01:47:57,120
I'm like, look, I can't carry all this weight.

1922
01:47:57,120 --> 01:48:01,360
This shit's heavy, the weight of this is weighing me down.

1923
01:48:01,360 --> 01:48:05,280
If you can help out, carry a pound, carry five pounds,

1924
01:48:05,280 --> 01:48:07,240
whatever you can do to help out,

1925
01:48:07,240 --> 01:48:10,520
and here's what the mission of what we're trying to do is.

1926
01:48:10,520 --> 01:48:12,600
And people started carrying the weight,

1927
01:48:12,600 --> 01:48:14,080
they started telling their stories,

1928
01:48:14,080 --> 01:48:16,520
and right after I posted my video, he came on,

1929
01:48:16,520 --> 01:48:18,600
and he said, this is what I'm waiting for.

1930
01:48:21,120 --> 01:48:25,240
We can't walk around with all this shit in our pack,

1931
01:48:26,800 --> 01:48:28,920
and carry it, and continue to struggle,

1932
01:48:28,920 --> 01:48:30,880
and struggle, and struggle, and do it on our own.

1933
01:48:30,880 --> 01:48:33,000
We need people to help us.

1934
01:48:33,960 --> 01:48:38,680
And how that paralleled into struggle well and boulder crisis,

1935
01:48:39,560 --> 01:48:41,360
even sitting here now talking about it,

1936
01:48:41,360 --> 01:48:43,160
I'm like, the light went off, and I'm like,

1937
01:48:43,160 --> 01:48:45,480
oh, we talk about the pack and carrying the stuff,

1938
01:48:45,480 --> 01:48:49,760
and everything kind of interweaves itself

1939
01:48:51,080 --> 01:48:52,720
into how it's worked out.

1940
01:48:54,920 --> 01:48:59,320
But we don't take the time to sit and think about those things

1941
01:48:59,320 --> 01:49:02,360
and look at how fortunate we are in our lives

1942
01:49:02,360 --> 01:49:05,280
to have all these experiences, good and bad,

1943
01:49:05,280 --> 01:49:08,120
because you don't get jujitsu.

1944
01:49:08,120 --> 01:49:09,400
You're not gonna get any better

1945
01:49:09,400 --> 01:49:11,200
if you just roll around on the mat with the guy

1946
01:49:11,200 --> 01:49:13,760
that's the same level doing the same stuff every day.

1947
01:49:13,760 --> 01:49:16,080
You need to have that black or that brown belt

1948
01:49:16,080 --> 01:49:18,280
come in there and whoop your ass,

1949
01:49:18,280 --> 01:49:20,240
and then go, okay, here's how I did it.

1950
01:49:21,120 --> 01:49:22,520
Let me help you get better.

1951
01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:27,680
You have to have that fire, that,

1952
01:49:27,680 --> 01:49:31,840
I love the Bible verse about iron sharpens iron.

1953
01:49:33,120 --> 01:49:35,680
If we surround ourselves with people

1954
01:49:35,680 --> 01:49:38,040
that are better than us, that will push us

1955
01:49:38,040 --> 01:49:41,520
to make us better, that give us a different perspective,

1956
01:49:41,520 --> 01:49:46,520
that's how we grow. I relate back to the whole PTSD thing

1957
01:49:48,320 --> 01:49:49,880
in law enforcement to wrestling.

1958
01:49:50,880 --> 01:49:53,760
I go out to the ring, I'm a character,

1959
01:49:53,760 --> 01:49:56,400
at the end of the match, I come back,

1960
01:49:56,400 --> 01:49:59,560
I take my stuff off, I go home, I did my job.

1961
01:49:59,560 --> 01:50:01,800
When we're in law enforcement or first responders

1962
01:50:01,800 --> 01:50:04,280
or military, we don't take that mask off,

1963
01:50:04,280 --> 01:50:05,440
we forget about that.

1964
01:50:07,200 --> 01:50:08,400
And you see all these people,

1965
01:50:08,400 --> 01:50:10,200
and they'll come up to me afterwards and be like,

1966
01:50:10,200 --> 01:50:11,720
who'd you wrestle? You used to wrestle?

1967
01:50:11,720 --> 01:50:12,560
Where'd you wrestle?

1968
01:50:12,560 --> 01:50:15,200
I'm like, you didn't hear a word of what I said,

1969
01:50:15,200 --> 01:50:16,720
but we got the conversation started,

1970
01:50:16,720 --> 01:50:17,760
so we can go from there.

1971
01:50:18,720 --> 01:50:19,880
Same with the fighting.

1972
01:50:21,560 --> 01:50:24,120
People latch on to whatever they're gonna latch on to,

1973
01:50:24,120 --> 01:50:25,880
I don't care what it is,

1974
01:50:25,880 --> 01:50:28,320
I've got that open conversation now.

1975
01:50:29,320 --> 01:50:32,360
And I can share, yeah, that was, it was fun, I did it.

1976
01:50:33,200 --> 01:50:34,880
I listened to Rashad Evans, and I'm like,

1977
01:50:34,880 --> 01:50:39,240
this dude's amazing, I did that, sucked at it,

1978
01:50:39,240 --> 01:50:42,440
I was a mediocre, you go out and fight in these little places

1979
01:50:42,440 --> 01:50:44,080
and you did it because it was fun.

1980
01:50:46,760 --> 01:50:49,400
But people latch on to the strangest things,

1981
01:50:49,400 --> 01:50:51,680
but then I get to open up and tell the story

1982
01:50:51,680 --> 01:50:55,480
and get to start to help them see these things.

1983
01:50:55,480 --> 01:50:58,000
And because when they're struggling,

1984
01:50:58,000 --> 01:50:59,880
even when they're not struggling,

1985
01:50:59,880 --> 01:51:01,800
when I get people when they're younger,

1986
01:51:02,880 --> 01:51:06,600
I get to give them kind of a view of what may come up.

1987
01:51:06,600 --> 01:51:09,320
And if you have this trauma going on,

1988
01:51:09,320 --> 01:51:11,080
this is what you're gonna see.

1989
01:51:11,080 --> 01:51:12,560
Don't think you're losing your mind,

1990
01:51:12,560 --> 01:51:14,360
don't think you're going crazy.

1991
01:51:14,360 --> 01:51:15,480
Here's what you're gonna see,

1992
01:51:15,480 --> 01:51:17,440
and this is what we gotta do to help you get better

1993
01:51:17,440 --> 01:51:19,880
before that happens, because it's gonna happen.

1994
01:51:20,960 --> 01:51:22,760
What was it that you took away

1995
01:51:22,760 --> 01:51:25,440
from the Struggle Well program in Boulder Crest

1996
01:51:25,440 --> 01:51:27,120
that was different than some of the other things

1997
01:51:27,120 --> 01:51:28,080
you'd done prior?

1998
01:51:29,040 --> 01:51:31,400
Oh, so much, so much.

1999
01:51:31,400 --> 01:51:35,760
So the Boulder Crest program for Warrior Path,

2000
01:51:35,760 --> 01:51:39,640
it's six folks that come in, it's either men or women.

2001
01:51:40,600 --> 01:51:44,280
I was the one non-military guy in my group,

2002
01:51:44,280 --> 01:51:45,480
but we're all older guys.

2003
01:51:45,480 --> 01:51:47,800
I think the youngest guy was 38.

2004
01:51:47,800 --> 01:51:51,320
So we come in, we're all sitting there, arms crossed,

2005
01:51:51,320 --> 01:51:54,120
you know, typical first responder thing.

2006
01:51:55,160 --> 01:51:59,160
And they tell you right off the bat,

2007
01:51:59,160 --> 01:52:01,560
this is something that happened to you.

2008
01:52:01,560 --> 01:52:03,520
This is not who you are.

2009
01:52:04,360 --> 01:52:06,800
And we're gonna talk about it,

2010
01:52:06,800 --> 01:52:09,160
but we're gonna talk about so much more this week,

2011
01:52:09,160 --> 01:52:11,400
because you're there for seven days.

2012
01:52:11,400 --> 01:52:13,560
So you stay on campus,

2013
01:52:13,560 --> 01:52:17,560
and they've got Ken Falk and Josh Goldberg.

2014
01:52:17,560 --> 01:52:21,040
When Ken Falk created this out in Blue Mountain, Virginia,

2015
01:52:22,200 --> 01:52:24,440
you have four cabins.

2016
01:52:24,440 --> 01:52:26,240
So you stay two to a cabin,

2017
01:52:26,240 --> 01:52:28,560
and these are ADA compliant cabins.

2018
01:52:28,560 --> 01:52:31,000
He was an EOD guy in the military.

2019
01:52:31,000 --> 01:52:33,520
So he was seeing all these people come back

2020
01:52:33,520 --> 01:52:35,440
with lost limbs and everything else.

2021
01:52:35,440 --> 01:52:38,760
So he made these cabins so they were accessible to them.

2022
01:52:38,760 --> 01:52:41,440
You don't get to enjoy any of this,

2023
01:52:41,440 --> 01:52:43,720
because you're working from six in the morning

2024
01:52:43,720 --> 01:52:46,640
till nine so at night.

2025
01:52:46,640 --> 01:52:48,640
And I remember the first day I come in there,

2026
01:52:48,640 --> 01:52:51,480
I meet the guy that I'm rooming with,

2027
01:52:51,480 --> 01:52:54,520
and they have these huge showers,

2028
01:52:54,520 --> 01:52:57,200
they have these huge showers that are set up

2029
01:52:57,200 --> 01:53:00,080
for folks that are in wheelchairs.

2030
01:53:00,080 --> 01:53:02,280
And they had heated toilet seats,

2031
01:53:02,280 --> 01:53:04,040
which I was just like, this is the coolest thing,

2032
01:53:04,040 --> 01:53:05,840
it looks like a cockpit.

2033
01:53:05,840 --> 01:53:07,040
So we're sitting there for half hour

2034
01:53:07,040 --> 01:53:08,040
trying to figure this thing out.

2035
01:53:08,040 --> 01:53:10,960
We got water flying everywhere, all this stuff.

2036
01:53:10,960 --> 01:53:12,080
It was the stupid things.

2037
01:53:12,080 --> 01:53:13,400
Like, you know, first responders,

2038
01:53:13,400 --> 01:53:15,000
we find humor in all this stuff.

2039
01:53:16,360 --> 01:53:18,120
But they get you up at six in the morning,

2040
01:53:18,120 --> 01:53:19,640
we did TRX.

2041
01:53:21,000 --> 01:53:23,520
So every morning we got up, we did journaling,

2042
01:53:23,520 --> 01:53:27,160
we did gratitude exercises, and then we did our TRX,

2043
01:53:27,160 --> 01:53:29,120
showered, back for breakfast,

2044
01:53:29,120 --> 01:53:31,960
and they never told you what was coming next.

2045
01:53:31,960 --> 01:53:36,080
So you would go work with the horses for a couple hours,

2046
01:53:36,080 --> 01:53:37,840
and then you'd come back and you'd be hiking,

2047
01:53:37,840 --> 01:53:40,400
or you'd be doing crafts or something.

2048
01:53:41,720 --> 01:53:44,120
But they made you look at your entire life,

2049
01:53:44,120 --> 01:53:45,880
and what we talked about earlier

2050
01:53:45,880 --> 01:53:47,520
with the family aspect of it,

2051
01:53:47,520 --> 01:53:49,280
there was a point where you had to sit

2052
01:53:49,280 --> 01:53:53,120
and look at your grandparents, your parents, yourself,

2053
01:53:53,120 --> 01:53:54,480
and if you had them, your kids,

2054
01:53:54,480 --> 01:53:57,720
and you had to look at all the positives and the negatives

2055
01:53:57,720 --> 01:54:02,720
on each side, and you saw how all that stuff trickled down,

2056
01:54:04,000 --> 01:54:06,160
and you had to make the decision

2057
01:54:06,160 --> 01:54:08,080
to be the one to stop the cycle.

2058
01:54:09,960 --> 01:54:12,240
Now you had grown men coming in there,

2059
01:54:13,200 --> 01:54:15,360
arms crossed, didn't wanna talk to anybody.

2060
01:54:15,360 --> 01:54:19,840
By the end of that week, we were like six little old ladies.

2061
01:54:19,840 --> 01:54:21,240
We wouldn't shut up.

2062
01:54:21,240 --> 01:54:24,960
We have talked to each other every week,

2063
01:54:24,960 --> 01:54:29,960
and this was in December of 2020, every week since then.

2064
01:54:29,960 --> 01:54:34,960
Whether it's texting, we were doing weekly Zoom meetings,

2065
01:54:36,200 --> 01:54:39,640
and we have helped each other through so much stuff,

2066
01:54:39,640 --> 01:54:43,520
and the basics of that is that three to five support system.

2067
01:54:45,400 --> 01:54:47,840
I wanna be there for you, I wanna help you,

2068
01:54:47,840 --> 01:54:51,400
I want you to succeed, and I want nothing in return,

2069
01:54:51,400 --> 01:54:54,000
other than for you to do the same for me.

2070
01:54:55,120 --> 01:54:57,760
We learned how to deal with our triggers.

2071
01:54:59,360 --> 01:55:02,400
We learned when we start to go downhill

2072
01:55:02,400 --> 01:55:05,560
or those demons start creeping up, we know what to do.

2073
01:55:07,280 --> 01:55:09,360
When you get there, you don't have your cell phones.

2074
01:55:09,360 --> 01:55:11,520
Those have to stay back in the cabins.

2075
01:55:12,440 --> 01:55:14,360
You have no contact with your family,

2076
01:55:14,360 --> 01:55:16,400
except the end of the night, my son would always be like,

2077
01:55:16,400 --> 01:55:17,960
how's summer camp going?

2078
01:55:17,960 --> 01:55:19,520
I'm like, this is not summer camp,

2079
01:55:19,520 --> 01:55:21,360
I'm old and I'm hurting right now.

2080
01:55:23,680 --> 01:55:26,480
But you started with gratitude,

2081
01:55:26,480 --> 01:55:28,560
you ended every night around a campfire,

2082
01:55:28,560 --> 01:55:32,200
and one of the biggest things that week,

2083
01:55:32,200 --> 01:55:35,560
our lead officer for that group,

2084
01:55:36,600 --> 01:55:39,480
the last, I think it was the second to the last day

2085
01:55:39,480 --> 01:55:42,240
we were there, we had to go through the labyrinth,

2086
01:55:42,240 --> 01:55:44,520
and he went out, we got a huge snowstorm,

2087
01:55:44,520 --> 01:55:49,200
and he went out and hand cleared it himself.

2088
01:55:49,200 --> 01:55:52,200
And he told us, he goes, other people may lay down,

2089
01:55:52,200 --> 01:55:54,120
they have, I guess they have pictures and stuff

2090
01:55:54,120 --> 01:55:56,240
that you can lay down to do the labyrinth inside.

2091
01:55:56,240 --> 01:55:58,240
He goes, you need to go through this,

2092
01:55:59,280 --> 01:56:01,200
because it was such a healing process.

2093
01:56:01,200 --> 01:56:05,160
They have you go through with a stone

2094
01:56:06,280 --> 01:56:08,040
when you first get there,

2095
01:56:08,040 --> 01:56:10,320
and it's supposed to represent everything

2096
01:56:10,320 --> 01:56:11,840
that you've come there with.

2097
01:56:11,840 --> 01:56:14,920
And you walk through this labyrinth that takes 20 minutes

2098
01:56:14,920 --> 01:56:19,240
or more, excuse me, and you leave it in the middle.

2099
01:56:20,720 --> 01:56:23,200
And that's representing you leaving your stuff there

2100
01:56:23,200 --> 01:56:25,440
so that you can learn this week.

2101
01:56:25,440 --> 01:56:27,680
And at the end of it, you go through

2102
01:56:28,800 --> 01:56:30,960
and you pass that stone to each other

2103
01:56:30,960 --> 01:56:33,440
as you're walking through to represent

2104
01:56:33,440 --> 01:56:38,040
how you helped one another struggle well and get better.

2105
01:56:38,040 --> 01:56:40,640
And at the end of it, we had to vote

2106
01:56:40,640 --> 01:56:44,280
who would be the team lead for this exercise.

2107
01:56:45,160 --> 01:56:48,440
And so I'm like, these guys are all been in combat,

2108
01:56:48,440 --> 01:56:52,440
and they were like, we're out in the snowstorm,

2109
01:56:52,440 --> 01:56:55,120
and they were like, you do this stuff every day.

2110
01:56:55,120 --> 01:56:58,160
We went out, we got deployed, we did this stuff,

2111
01:56:58,160 --> 01:56:59,800
but you do this every day.

2112
01:56:59,800 --> 01:57:02,560
You'd be out in this if you weren't here right now working.

2113
01:57:02,560 --> 01:57:06,720
And so as the team lead, I go through

2114
01:57:06,720 --> 01:57:10,360
and I stopped everybody before we entered the center

2115
01:57:12,040 --> 01:57:14,440
and made everybody wait till we all got through there.

2116
01:57:14,440 --> 01:57:18,240
And we all went in together, we joined hands,

2117
01:57:18,240 --> 01:57:22,040
we set that stone down, we hugged each other,

2118
01:57:22,040 --> 01:57:24,240
we told each other, we loved each other.

2119
01:57:25,280 --> 01:57:26,840
We shared our personal stuff

2120
01:57:26,840 --> 01:57:28,720
that we needed to do on our own.

2121
01:57:28,720 --> 01:57:30,480
And we did that together.

2122
01:57:30,480 --> 01:57:33,400
We shared the stuff that we needed to do on our own.

2123
01:57:33,400 --> 01:57:36,600
And then we all got lined up and we walked out.

2124
01:57:36,600 --> 01:57:40,600
And when you walk out, the team lead for the group

2125
01:57:40,600 --> 01:57:42,880
says something to each person.

2126
01:57:42,880 --> 01:57:47,880
And he said to me, leadership recognizes leadership.

2127
01:57:51,560 --> 01:57:54,280
Those guys coming home,

2128
01:57:54,280 --> 01:57:56,880
I think it was the last year I was working,

2129
01:57:56,880 --> 01:57:59,080
I'm coming home and I always kept my radio on

2130
01:57:59,080 --> 01:58:01,200
or wherever I was going through

2131
01:58:01,200 --> 01:58:03,280
so I could hear what was going on.

2132
01:58:03,280 --> 01:58:05,800
And there was a call that went out,

2133
01:58:05,800 --> 01:58:08,760
we were supposed to have our Zoom meeting that night.

2134
01:58:08,760 --> 01:58:12,520
And there was a call that went out for a 12 year old

2135
01:58:13,440 --> 01:58:15,560
that was locked in his room with a gun.

2136
01:58:17,400 --> 01:58:19,600
And I'm driving home and it was like

2137
01:58:19,600 --> 01:58:21,080
nobody else is on the road.

2138
01:58:21,080 --> 01:58:22,360
It was late at night.

2139
01:58:23,200 --> 01:58:26,360
And I'm thinking to myself, I'm like,

2140
01:58:26,360 --> 01:58:28,640
please let him be okay, please let him be okay,

2141
01:58:28,640 --> 01:58:30,000
please let him be okay.

2142
01:58:30,000 --> 01:58:34,920
And the first officer gets to the scene

2143
01:58:34,920 --> 01:58:36,920
and he comes across the radio and he says,

2144
01:58:36,920 --> 01:58:38,280
slow the response.

2145
01:58:40,880 --> 01:58:42,840
And all you heard in the background

2146
01:58:42,840 --> 01:58:45,680
was this mother's guttural scream.

2147
01:58:48,080 --> 01:58:51,720
And I'm getting goosebumps now, this killed me.

2148
01:58:51,720 --> 01:58:55,160
I pulled my cruiser over to the side of the road and sobbed.

2149
01:58:55,160 --> 01:59:00,160
I'm like 12 years old, he's the same age as my kids.

2150
01:59:01,960 --> 01:59:04,120
But I got on the phone with my guys.

2151
01:59:06,560 --> 01:59:09,520
And if I didn't have that,

2152
01:59:11,520 --> 01:59:15,960
and that just was embedded in me.

2153
01:59:15,960 --> 01:59:20,960
Because I can't imagine that being my son or my daughter.

2154
01:59:25,760 --> 01:59:27,800
I can't imagine being that parent.

2155
01:59:31,760 --> 01:59:33,760
And I will never get that,

2156
01:59:33,760 --> 01:59:36,560
that woman's scream will never leave my head.

2157
01:59:36,560 --> 01:59:40,040
And I went back to work and I told people that were,

2158
01:59:40,040 --> 01:59:41,240
and I talked about it.

2159
01:59:43,280 --> 01:59:45,720
I was like, go home and hug your kids.

2160
01:59:45,720 --> 01:59:46,880
I shoot these little videos.

2161
01:59:46,880 --> 01:59:49,400
I try to do them daily, I'm not great at it.

2162
01:59:49,400 --> 01:59:50,920
But I shoot these little videos

2163
01:59:50,920 --> 01:59:55,680
and I always end them with thanking the people in uniform,

2164
01:59:55,680 --> 01:59:57,640
thanking the brothers and sisters that are overseas

2165
01:59:57,640 --> 01:59:58,920
protecting our freedom.

2166
01:59:59,760 --> 02:00:02,160
But tell your friends and your family and your loved ones

2167
02:00:02,160 --> 02:00:03,920
how important they are to you each and every day

2168
02:00:03,920 --> 02:00:05,560
because tomorrow isn't promised.

2169
02:00:09,000 --> 02:00:14,000
And when I retired and come into regular life again,

2170
02:00:14,000 --> 02:00:16,600
I'm like, man, I've missed so much stuff

2171
02:00:19,720 --> 02:00:21,720
because of this persona that I had to have,

2172
02:00:21,720 --> 02:00:25,160
because of this job that I thought was so much more important

2173
02:00:25,160 --> 02:00:27,160
than everything else around me.

2174
02:00:28,360 --> 02:00:31,960
And this family, and I just like you,

2175
02:00:31,960 --> 02:00:34,600
I've got the men and women that are still there for me.

2176
02:00:34,600 --> 02:00:35,440
I still talk to them.

2177
02:00:35,440 --> 02:00:37,080
I go take every opportunity to see them.

2178
02:00:37,080 --> 02:00:41,480
But this family that we have as a group,

2179
02:00:41,480 --> 02:00:44,200
they're not there anymore.

2180
02:00:46,000 --> 02:00:47,800
My kids and my wife are here.

2181
02:00:49,760 --> 02:00:54,760
And when I look back and I look at all the stuff

2182
02:00:56,160 --> 02:01:00,600
that I've gone through, Boulder Crest was the point for me.

2183
02:01:00,600 --> 02:01:05,600
It was the first time we went out and did the labyrinth

2184
02:01:05,880 --> 02:01:08,200
the first time and then you come back

2185
02:01:08,200 --> 02:01:11,520
and they have these cloth pieces and all this arts

2186
02:01:11,520 --> 02:01:14,280
and crafts stuff on the table.

2187
02:01:14,280 --> 02:01:15,920
So we all walked back in and we're like,

2188
02:01:15,920 --> 02:01:17,680
what the hell is this like a kindergarten classroom?

2189
02:01:17,680 --> 02:01:19,560
We're doing arts and crafts now.

2190
02:01:19,560 --> 02:01:24,160
So they were like, do we want you to replicate through this

2191
02:01:24,160 --> 02:01:25,880
what that experience was for you?

2192
02:01:27,440 --> 02:01:30,160
So I think I probably took 20 minutes sitting there going,

2193
02:01:30,160 --> 02:01:32,560
what the hell am I gonna do with this?

2194
02:01:32,560 --> 02:01:34,520
We had to do it again the second time.

2195
02:01:34,520 --> 02:01:37,080
And when I went through, they made us stand up

2196
02:01:37,080 --> 02:01:39,680
and look at both versions to see what was different.

2197
02:01:40,920 --> 02:01:45,920
And I had put on both of mine what I thought of myself.

2198
02:01:47,800 --> 02:01:50,720
Husband, cop, all this stuff.

2199
02:01:50,720 --> 02:01:53,600
It was the first time that I didn't use the word cop

2200
02:01:53,600 --> 02:01:56,520
to describe myself in those things.

2201
02:01:56,520 --> 02:02:01,520
And they made me see that I was much more than that badge.

2202
02:02:01,520 --> 02:02:06,520
And it was hard to accept that.

2203
02:02:07,960 --> 02:02:10,120
But I remember when I went back to work after that,

2204
02:02:10,120 --> 02:02:13,680
I told people I could not stop talking about this program.

2205
02:02:14,880 --> 02:02:16,560
And I knew sitting through this

2206
02:02:16,560 --> 02:02:18,240
that that's where I wanted to go.

2207
02:02:18,240 --> 02:02:20,560
I wanted to be a part of that group.

2208
02:02:20,560 --> 02:02:22,960
One of the guys that I went through with,

2209
02:02:22,960 --> 02:02:27,960
he is out in Seattle and he's a very good friend of mine.

2210
02:02:27,960 --> 02:02:31,680
And the other guy that I went through with,

2211
02:02:31,680 --> 02:02:36,200
he is out in Seattle and he is a,

2212
02:02:36,200 --> 02:02:38,320
I think he just retired from doing that,

2213
02:02:38,320 --> 02:02:40,840
but he was a path guide out there.

2214
02:02:42,320 --> 02:02:45,040
And so I finally, when I retired,

2215
02:02:45,040 --> 02:02:47,480
the way everything went down a few months

2216
02:02:47,480 --> 02:02:50,040
before I turned in my paperwork,

2217
02:02:50,040 --> 02:02:53,000
I got my publishing contract signed

2218
02:02:53,000 --> 02:02:55,360
and an opportunity opened up

2219
02:02:55,360 --> 02:02:58,360
so I had an interview and I went on and the lady was like,

2220
02:02:58,360 --> 02:02:59,920
we're looking at your CV.

2221
02:03:00,920 --> 02:03:02,520
She goes, we'd love to have you here,

2222
02:03:02,520 --> 02:03:05,040
but you would be so much better with this new program

2223
02:03:05,040 --> 02:03:06,840
we're starting called Struggle Well,

2224
02:03:06,840 --> 02:03:09,080
that's for first responders.

2225
02:03:09,080 --> 02:03:12,560
So is it okay if I forward your stuff to them,

2226
02:03:12,560 --> 02:03:15,920
which I didn't even know they were doing this at this point.

2227
02:03:15,920 --> 02:03:17,320
So I'm like, sure.

2228
02:03:18,480 --> 02:03:20,680
Didn't hear from them, didn't hear from them.

2229
02:03:21,840 --> 02:03:24,080
Incident happens at work with the service dog.

2230
02:03:24,080 --> 02:03:26,000
I'm home for several weeks

2231
02:03:26,920 --> 02:03:30,800
because I had to go have a fit for duty

2232
02:03:30,800 --> 02:03:32,280
because I had a service dog.

2233
02:03:32,280 --> 02:03:33,600
So of course, if I have a service dog,

2234
02:03:33,600 --> 02:03:36,560
my PTSD must be getting worse.

2235
02:03:36,560 --> 02:03:38,360
And so I got sent home.

2236
02:03:39,840 --> 02:03:42,720
And that was laughable.

2237
02:03:44,000 --> 02:03:47,040
But that was the day I got signed for my publishing contract.

2238
02:03:47,040 --> 02:03:50,040
And that was the day that I got the call back

2239
02:03:50,040 --> 02:03:52,320
from the Bouldercrest folks.

2240
02:03:52,320 --> 02:03:55,440
And I've started training with them since I retired.

2241
02:03:55,440 --> 02:04:00,160
And I get to go through next week and finish that training

2242
02:04:00,160 --> 02:04:01,880
and getting to sit,

2243
02:04:03,000 --> 02:04:04,440
when you're doing the,

2244
02:04:06,040 --> 02:04:07,400
where you're kind of sitting in there

2245
02:04:07,400 --> 02:04:09,400
and watching how people teach

2246
02:04:09,400 --> 02:04:12,200
because you have different people teaching each class.

2247
02:04:12,200 --> 02:04:14,960
So I'm trying to learn how everybody does this.

2248
02:04:16,920 --> 02:04:19,400
But getting to listen to everything,

2249
02:04:19,400 --> 02:04:21,520
getting to see how these people teach this,

2250
02:04:21,520 --> 02:04:25,000
getting to hear about all these people's experiences,

2251
02:04:25,000 --> 02:04:26,280
it's like full circle

2252
02:04:27,840 --> 02:04:30,320
with the way everything has worked out.

2253
02:04:30,320 --> 02:04:34,920
And I just wanna grab these people

2254
02:04:34,920 --> 02:04:36,960
and be like, everything's gonna be okay.

2255
02:04:38,440 --> 02:04:41,560
Because when they first come into this experience,

2256
02:04:41,560 --> 02:04:43,400
I see myself in them.

2257
02:04:43,400 --> 02:04:46,880
I see how beat up, how broken they are.

2258
02:04:46,880 --> 02:04:48,760
Then they talk about all the same things

2259
02:04:48,760 --> 02:04:49,600
I was going through.

2260
02:04:49,600 --> 02:04:52,720
And I just wanna say by the end of this week,

2261
02:04:52,720 --> 02:04:54,520
you're going to be amazing.

2262
02:04:55,960 --> 02:04:58,720
And you watch that transformation

2263
02:04:58,720 --> 02:05:00,880
and I've never seen it with anything else.

2264
02:05:02,080 --> 02:05:04,520
When it is something to behold.

2265
02:05:04,520 --> 02:05:06,160
Yeah, absolutely.

2266
02:05:06,160 --> 02:05:08,560
When earlier you were talking about the stigma

2267
02:05:08,560 --> 02:05:11,800
and even like, the PTSD is always gonna be a part of you.

2268
02:05:11,800 --> 02:05:14,760
And of course, you can't unlive the things

2269
02:05:14,760 --> 02:05:16,920
that you've seen and done.

2270
02:05:16,920 --> 02:05:19,840
But recently I've been realizing

2271
02:05:19,840 --> 02:05:22,960
that what we're missing in the mental health conversation,

2272
02:05:22,960 --> 02:05:25,760
especially obviously in our professions,

2273
02:05:25,760 --> 02:05:27,960
is I feel like we tripped over the word stigma

2274
02:05:27,960 --> 02:05:29,120
and we got stuck.

2275
02:05:29,120 --> 02:05:30,520
Like, oh, we've got to smash the stigma.

2276
02:05:30,520 --> 02:05:33,160
So, okay, but that's not an actionable thing.

2277
02:05:33,160 --> 02:05:35,440
You're just asking people not to be dicks about it,

2278
02:05:35,440 --> 02:05:36,280
basically.

2279
02:05:37,160 --> 02:05:42,160
So what I think is so uplifting, encouraging, optimistic

2280
02:05:43,440 --> 02:05:46,840
is these hundreds of stories that I've had on here,

2281
02:05:46,840 --> 02:05:50,120
yours included, is if you take a step back,

2282
02:05:50,120 --> 02:05:54,040
the person that you are now is more resilient

2283
02:05:54,040 --> 02:05:55,400
than the person you were,

2284
02:05:55,400 --> 02:05:56,840
especially when you were sitting there

2285
02:05:56,840 --> 02:05:58,800
with a pistol in 2003.

2286
02:05:58,800 --> 02:06:01,320
So it's not like, oh, I'll be able to live with it.

2287
02:06:01,320 --> 02:06:03,800
I'll have a dog and I'll be sad every day

2288
02:06:03,800 --> 02:06:05,000
but we'll get through it.

2289
02:06:05,000 --> 02:06:07,720
It's like, no, now you're actually teaching a bold request.

2290
02:06:07,720 --> 02:06:09,760
And I think this is what we need to put out there.

2291
02:06:09,760 --> 02:06:12,440
That the burdensome needs to be on the red flag list

2292
02:06:12,440 --> 02:06:14,640
of like, if you believe you're a burden,

2293
02:06:14,640 --> 02:06:17,000
that's your fucking sign to pick up a phone

2294
02:06:17,000 --> 02:06:18,400
and make sure you actually talk to someone.

2295
02:06:18,400 --> 02:06:21,120
Or if you hear your friends say about being a burden,

2296
02:06:21,120 --> 02:06:23,760
that's your time to really step up and show up.

2297
02:06:23,760 --> 02:06:27,280
But on the other side, the resilience conversation,

2298
02:06:27,280 --> 02:06:29,440
the hope that if you do the work,

2299
02:06:29,440 --> 02:06:33,120
there is a better version of you waiting on the other side,

2300
02:06:33,120 --> 02:06:35,600
a beacon of light for other people who are struggling

2301
02:06:35,600 --> 02:06:38,960
because you're using your story as a fucking superpower now.

2302
02:06:38,960 --> 02:06:41,240
I think that needs to be the next wave

2303
02:06:41,240 --> 02:06:46,240
in the mental health conversation.

2304
02:06:46,360 --> 02:06:48,360
It's funny that you said the beacon of light

2305
02:06:48,360 --> 02:06:50,360
because that's how when I signed my books for people,

2306
02:06:50,360 --> 02:06:54,120
I always will continue to be a beacon of light in the storm

2307
02:06:54,120 --> 02:06:55,720
for those that are struggling.

2308
02:06:56,920 --> 02:07:00,040
Because nobody gets up and wants to struggle with this stuff.

2309
02:07:02,200 --> 02:07:05,520
The just being able to talk about it.

2310
02:07:05,520 --> 02:07:08,600
And when I'm doing these presentations,

2311
02:07:08,600 --> 02:07:11,280
I talk about how if you're a cop, you go out

2312
02:07:11,280 --> 02:07:13,600
and you get a call from some little old lady

2313
02:07:13,600 --> 02:07:15,680
that's got gremlins in her garden and she tells you,

2314
02:07:15,680 --> 02:07:17,720
oh, the gremlins are still in my flowers.

2315
02:07:17,720 --> 02:07:18,720
And you're just like, yes, ma'am.

2316
02:07:18,720 --> 02:07:20,040
Okay, ma'am, you're writing it down

2317
02:07:20,040 --> 02:07:23,160
and you're doing everything to make her feel comfortable,

2318
02:07:23,160 --> 02:07:26,240
even though you know there's no gremlins running around.

2319
02:07:27,200 --> 02:07:28,760
But we get back to the department

2320
02:07:28,760 --> 02:07:32,120
and you see your partner in a corner,

2321
02:07:33,000 --> 02:07:36,680
either crying, disheveled, struggling with something.

2322
02:07:36,680 --> 02:07:38,080
You know they're struggling with something,

2323
02:07:38,080 --> 02:07:40,320
but we always say, oh, they'll be fine.

2324
02:07:41,560 --> 02:07:44,800
Because we don't wanna hear somebody we care about

2325
02:07:46,320 --> 02:07:48,320
talk about they wanna end their life.

2326
02:07:49,920 --> 02:07:54,080
And when I've done training, whether it's for,

2327
02:07:54,080 --> 02:07:56,400
you know, teaching peer support stuff or whatever,

2328
02:07:56,400 --> 02:07:59,040
officers will be like, well, I don't know what to say.

2329
02:08:00,760 --> 02:08:02,840
Working at police week, for 20 years,

2330
02:08:02,840 --> 02:08:04,600
I worked at police week at the hotels

2331
02:08:04,600 --> 02:08:06,240
when the families would come in.

2332
02:08:06,240 --> 02:08:08,960
And the officers that I would bring into work with me

2333
02:08:08,960 --> 02:08:11,560
would say, I don't know what to say to these folks.

2334
02:08:11,560 --> 02:08:13,120
Ask them about their officer.

2335
02:08:14,320 --> 02:08:15,760
You don't know anything about them.

2336
02:08:15,760 --> 02:08:17,080
Ask them about the officer.

2337
02:08:17,080 --> 02:08:19,240
You will have to say nothing after that.

2338
02:08:19,240 --> 02:08:20,880
They will talk to you for 20 minutes,

2339
02:08:20,880 --> 02:08:23,360
give you a huge hug and walk away

2340
02:08:23,360 --> 02:08:24,920
because they wanna be heard.

2341
02:08:26,720 --> 02:08:30,600
Don't be afraid of doing what we do every day

2342
02:08:30,600 --> 02:08:32,200
with people we don't even know.

2343
02:08:32,200 --> 02:08:34,600
Be a good human being.

2344
02:08:34,600 --> 02:08:38,640
If you see somebody struggling, ask them, are you okay?

2345
02:08:38,640 --> 02:08:40,280
And don't just go, hey, are you okay?

2346
02:08:40,280 --> 02:08:41,720
Like we do in the morning when you're like,

2347
02:08:41,720 --> 02:08:42,560
how you doing? Good morning.

2348
02:08:42,560 --> 02:08:44,800
And you'll walk by before they can say anything.

2349
02:08:44,800 --> 02:08:45,640
Stand there.

2350
02:08:46,760 --> 02:08:48,560
All you have to do is be present.

2351
02:08:50,240 --> 02:08:52,200
That is the biggest superpower you can have.

2352
02:08:52,200 --> 02:08:53,640
Just stand there and let people know,

2353
02:08:53,640 --> 02:08:54,880
I'm gonna stay here with you.

2354
02:08:54,880 --> 02:08:56,280
We're gonna get through this.

2355
02:08:56,280 --> 02:08:58,080
Just like when I had to tell my son.

2356
02:08:59,440 --> 02:09:01,680
This kid had to been over the top of the world

2357
02:09:01,680 --> 02:09:05,000
had to been overwhelmed that all this stuff's going on.

2358
02:09:05,000 --> 02:09:06,360
We're gonna get around this.

2359
02:09:06,360 --> 02:09:08,120
We're gonna figure out a new path.

2360
02:09:08,120 --> 02:09:10,240
We're gonna make this work.

2361
02:09:10,240 --> 02:09:12,400
And I'm gonna be here with you through this.

2362
02:09:13,760 --> 02:09:16,200
If I had an officer come in and talk to me,

2363
02:09:16,200 --> 02:09:17,760
they could be in the worst positions.

2364
02:09:17,760 --> 02:09:20,080
I had to go to officer's houses before

2365
02:09:20,080 --> 02:09:22,320
because they made a comment to a supervisor

2366
02:09:23,560 --> 02:09:25,080
and we knew it wasn't gonna be good.

2367
02:09:25,080 --> 02:09:27,240
And I just went in and I'm like,

2368
02:09:27,240 --> 02:09:28,760
what can I do to help you?

2369
02:09:28,760 --> 02:09:31,080
I'm here, I wanna listen.

2370
02:09:31,080 --> 02:09:32,280
I want you to be here.

2371
02:09:32,280 --> 02:09:33,840
I don't know who's told you anything.

2372
02:09:33,840 --> 02:09:34,960
I want you to be here.

2373
02:09:34,960 --> 02:09:37,880
And I'm gonna be here with you and do as much as I can.

2374
02:09:37,880 --> 02:09:42,240
And if it gets past that point that it's above my level,

2375
02:09:42,240 --> 02:09:45,840
I'm gonna find you the right person that can help you out.

2376
02:09:47,280 --> 02:09:51,280
There's nothing great about,

2377
02:09:51,280 --> 02:09:53,960
I mean, there's no, this isn't rocket science.

2378
02:09:55,160 --> 02:09:56,560
It's don't be an asshole.

2379
02:09:56,560 --> 02:09:57,400
It's that simple.

2380
02:09:57,400 --> 02:10:00,720
I am not the smartest guy in the room,

2381
02:10:00,720 --> 02:10:03,840
but I know I can say, if I see you struggling,

2382
02:10:03,840 --> 02:10:04,680
what's going on?

2383
02:10:04,680 --> 02:10:06,000
Let's talk.

2384
02:10:06,000 --> 02:10:06,840
Yeah.

2385
02:10:06,840 --> 02:10:09,640
I think one thing I've realized is that,

2386
02:10:09,640 --> 02:10:12,760
how are you doing or are you okay?

2387
02:10:12,760 --> 02:10:15,200
The first time it's easy to brush it off.

2388
02:10:15,200 --> 02:10:17,640
If you say it twice and you look him in the eye,

2389
02:10:17,640 --> 02:10:20,600
you go, no, no, really, how are you doing?

2390
02:10:20,600 --> 02:10:23,240
That's when the door comes open.

2391
02:10:23,240 --> 02:10:25,680
And the other side that I hear over and over again,

2392
02:10:25,680 --> 02:10:29,280
and it works, I've used it myself many, many times,

2393
02:10:29,280 --> 02:10:31,960
is also opening with your own vulnerability,

2394
02:10:31,960 --> 02:10:34,040
opening with a little bit of your story.

2395
02:10:34,040 --> 02:10:37,080
So then you've created an environment where you're like,

2396
02:10:37,080 --> 02:10:38,440
I was struggling.

2397
02:10:38,440 --> 02:10:41,120
Let me tell you about my divorce or whatever,

2398
02:10:41,120 --> 02:10:43,640
just a little bit, a little sound bite.

2399
02:10:43,640 --> 02:10:45,600
So then they can go, oh shit, yeah,

2400
02:10:45,600 --> 02:10:47,920
that's how I'm feeling, good.

2401
02:10:47,920 --> 02:10:50,080
Then we're on, like you said, eye to eye.

2402
02:10:50,080 --> 02:10:51,080
You've opened that door now.

2403
02:10:51,080 --> 02:10:54,280
So yeah, the shrugging off or are you okay?

2404
02:10:54,280 --> 02:10:57,600
Once, it's very, very different than saying it again,

2405
02:10:57,600 --> 02:10:59,600
sitting down in front of him and going,

2406
02:10:59,600 --> 02:11:01,560
mate, you don't seem like you're doing well.

2407
02:11:01,560 --> 02:11:03,040
Talk to me, what's going on?

2408
02:11:03,040 --> 02:11:06,480
And that second question I think is so important.

2409
02:11:07,640 --> 02:11:09,720
And that was one of the huge things with Bouldercrest.

2410
02:11:09,720 --> 02:11:12,120
When we all sat there with our arms crossed,

2411
02:11:12,120 --> 02:11:13,560
nobody, we didn't know each other.

2412
02:11:13,560 --> 02:11:15,520
We came from all over the country.

2413
02:11:15,520 --> 02:11:18,480
But once one person started talking,

2414
02:11:18,480 --> 02:11:21,760
and you're like, they're going through the same thing I am.

2415
02:11:21,760 --> 02:11:24,360
And for whatever reason,

2416
02:11:24,360 --> 02:11:25,760
we all think that we're superhuman

2417
02:11:25,760 --> 02:11:28,440
when we go into this job and we're the only one struggling

2418
02:11:28,440 --> 02:11:30,200
with somebody dying in front of us.

2419
02:11:30,200 --> 02:11:32,280
Or we're the only one struggling with a family

2420
02:11:32,280 --> 02:11:35,280
in a car accident or seeing a kid die.

2421
02:11:36,000 --> 02:11:37,480
Everybody struggles with it.

2422
02:11:37,480 --> 02:11:39,400
And you have some people that,

2423
02:11:39,400 --> 02:11:41,040
like I talked about with leadership,

2424
02:11:41,040 --> 02:11:42,520
they get to a point where they're like,

2425
02:11:42,520 --> 02:11:43,720
oh, nothing bothers me.

2426
02:11:43,720 --> 02:11:47,720
I'm, you just got to get back out there and do the job.

2427
02:11:47,720 --> 02:11:49,000
That's bullshit.

2428
02:11:49,000 --> 02:11:52,320
You're sending your people back out there like that.

2429
02:11:52,320 --> 02:11:54,520
You're setting them up to fail.

2430
02:11:55,800 --> 02:11:59,040
And it's just, it's plain and simple.

2431
02:11:59,040 --> 02:12:00,800
If this took a lot of brain power,

2432
02:12:00,800 --> 02:12:02,240
I wouldn't be good at it.

2433
02:12:02,240 --> 02:12:05,680
It's just having a conversation with somebody

2434
02:12:05,680 --> 02:12:09,680
and opening yourself up enough to be uncomfortable.

2435
02:12:10,720 --> 02:12:12,920
Because it's not comfortable when you hear somebody say,

2436
02:12:12,920 --> 02:12:15,080
oh, I'm thinking about killing myself.

2437
02:12:15,080 --> 02:12:19,240
And you hear, you ask people like, what should I say?

2438
02:12:19,240 --> 02:12:22,240
And like, are you thinking of killing yourself?

2439
02:12:22,240 --> 02:12:23,440
Okay, well, that was pretty straightforward.

2440
02:12:23,440 --> 02:12:24,760
Super uncomfortable,

2441
02:12:24,760 --> 02:12:26,640
but I've just got to let the words come out.

2442
02:12:26,640 --> 02:12:28,920
Do you have a plan to kill yourself?

2443
02:12:28,920 --> 02:12:31,400
Okay, now we can figure out, is this suicide ideation

2444
02:12:31,400 --> 02:12:33,440
or is this like concrete?

2445
02:12:33,440 --> 02:12:34,720
Yes, I'm going to do it this way.

2446
02:12:34,720 --> 02:12:37,040
And I'm going to, I've already written the note.

2447
02:12:37,040 --> 02:12:39,480
That's a whole, another layer of that,

2448
02:12:39,480 --> 02:12:41,480
that entire dynamic then.

2449
02:12:41,480 --> 02:12:43,400
But if you beat around the bush,

2450
02:12:43,400 --> 02:12:45,800
you never pull those facts out of those people

2451
02:12:45,800 --> 02:12:48,560
to figure out how near crisis are they actually

2452
02:12:48,560 --> 02:12:49,440
at this point.

2453
02:12:50,440 --> 02:12:54,840
And having the ability, when I ran our peer team,

2454
02:12:54,840 --> 02:12:58,280
I wanted the ability to go to the supervisors above me

2455
02:12:58,280 --> 02:12:59,720
or above the person,

2456
02:13:00,760 --> 02:13:02,720
not tell them anything about what was going on,

2457
02:13:02,720 --> 02:13:04,240
but I needed the ability to say,

2458
02:13:04,240 --> 02:13:06,400
this person needs to go home now.

2459
02:13:07,320 --> 02:13:10,240
This person is going to go, I'm taking them somewhere.

2460
02:13:10,240 --> 02:13:11,840
We're going to go out and have some coffee.

2461
02:13:11,840 --> 02:13:14,360
We're going to go, regardless of how,

2462
02:13:14,360 --> 02:13:17,880
it could be a minor thing, but it's overwhelming to them.

2463
02:13:19,320 --> 02:13:22,440
I needed the ability to take them off a shift.

2464
02:13:23,680 --> 02:13:26,360
And if you're in a position of leadership,

2465
02:13:26,360 --> 02:13:28,880
you've been put there for a reason, make it work.

2466
02:13:31,920 --> 02:13:33,840
And if you're at the way top of it,

2467
02:13:33,840 --> 02:13:35,040
and we're telling you like,

2468
02:13:35,040 --> 02:13:37,600
this person is really struggling

2469
02:13:37,600 --> 02:13:40,160
and all you're focusing on is, well, if they go off,

2470
02:13:40,160 --> 02:13:42,480
then I'm going to be short of body.

2471
02:13:42,480 --> 02:13:44,120
You're in the wrong job, my friend.

2472
02:13:44,120 --> 02:13:46,040
It's that simple.

2473
02:13:46,040 --> 02:13:50,000
We spend so much time focusing on equipment and cars

2474
02:13:50,000 --> 02:13:52,880
and the newest gadgets and technology.

2475
02:13:52,880 --> 02:13:56,880
Your most important thing that you have in your department

2476
02:13:56,880 --> 02:13:58,720
is your men and women.

2477
02:13:58,720 --> 02:14:00,760
If they're not there, who's going to do the job?

2478
02:14:00,760 --> 02:14:02,560
It sure as hell isn't going to be you.

2479
02:14:03,440 --> 02:14:05,120
They've got to be the ones out there

2480
02:14:05,120 --> 02:14:08,280
and you need to make sure that they know it's okay

2481
02:14:08,280 --> 02:14:10,520
to say I'm struggling with something,

2482
02:14:10,520 --> 02:14:12,560
that you're not immediately going to label them

2483
02:14:12,560 --> 02:14:14,840
because there's nothing wrong

2484
02:14:14,840 --> 02:14:17,000
with them being overwhelmed by something.

2485
02:14:17,000 --> 02:14:19,800
They're seeing the worst of the worst of the worst

2486
02:14:19,800 --> 02:14:20,960
day in and day out.

2487
02:14:22,880 --> 02:14:25,080
And they should be able to say,

2488
02:14:25,080 --> 02:14:27,440
I need to step away and take a break.

2489
02:14:29,160 --> 02:14:30,800
Yeah, 100%.

2490
02:14:30,800 --> 02:14:32,320
Well, I want to be mindful of your time.

2491
02:14:32,320 --> 02:14:33,920
I've been chatting over two hours now.

2492
02:14:33,920 --> 02:14:37,080
Before we close out, talk to me about the books

2493
02:14:37,080 --> 02:14:39,280
and then tell people where they can find them.

2494
02:14:40,240 --> 02:14:42,400
So the first book that I wrote was called

2495
02:14:42,400 --> 02:14:43,560
Why Won't You Play With Me?

2496
02:14:43,560 --> 02:14:46,720
And that was about conversations I had with my son

2497
02:14:46,720 --> 02:14:49,040
about PTSD, what I was going through,

2498
02:14:49,040 --> 02:14:51,520
because I didn't want him to think

2499
02:14:51,520 --> 02:14:56,520
that the way I was acting was a reflection of him.

2500
02:14:57,160 --> 02:14:59,080
He had come in one day, I was struggling.

2501
02:14:59,080 --> 02:15:01,040
I just lost a friend to suicide

2502
02:15:01,040 --> 02:15:04,680
and I lost another buddy to cancer.

2503
02:15:04,680 --> 02:15:06,440
And I was having a pity party.

2504
02:15:06,440 --> 02:15:09,000
And he came into me, just little dude,

2505
02:15:09,000 --> 02:15:12,040
and was like, why won't you play with me, dad?

2506
02:15:12,040 --> 02:15:15,040
And I was like, I can do this stuff to myself

2507
02:15:15,040 --> 02:15:17,560
and sit here and wallow, but I can't do it to him.

2508
02:15:18,600 --> 02:15:22,520
So I wrote the book and then Amazon comes back

2509
02:15:22,520 --> 02:15:24,400
because I self-published the first three books

2510
02:15:24,400 --> 02:15:28,200
and Amazon comes back and goes, the book's not long enough.

2511
02:15:28,200 --> 02:15:31,400
So I made a workbook in it because I knew for me

2512
02:15:31,400 --> 02:15:34,440
having conversations with him was hard.

2513
02:15:34,440 --> 02:15:39,440
So I made questions in the back that you can answer

2514
02:15:39,440 --> 02:15:41,640
and your child can answer.

2515
02:15:41,640 --> 02:15:44,800
So when you're ready to have those conversations, it's there

2516
02:15:44,800 --> 02:15:47,160
or you can look at it and reflect on it.

2517
02:15:47,160 --> 02:15:49,320
This kid would ask me questions.

2518
02:15:49,320 --> 02:15:53,040
He was a 99-year-old in a seven-year-old body.

2519
02:15:53,040 --> 02:15:54,400
He would come up with these questions

2520
02:15:54,400 --> 02:15:56,160
that nobody would ever think about.

2521
02:15:57,240 --> 02:15:59,960
And it was hard for me to come up with answers to him.

2522
02:16:00,960 --> 02:16:04,160
So I had to always step back and think about him.

2523
02:16:04,160 --> 02:16:05,840
So I wanted to create something

2524
02:16:05,840 --> 02:16:09,680
that helped foster that conversation.

2525
02:16:09,680 --> 02:16:13,440
The next book I wrote was on body image and anti-bullying.

2526
02:16:13,440 --> 02:16:17,680
And then the third book, my daughter got upset

2527
02:16:17,680 --> 02:16:19,760
that my son had a book and she didn't.

2528
02:16:19,760 --> 02:16:22,240
So I wrote a book for her called Daddy's Little Girl

2529
02:16:22,240 --> 02:16:25,400
about the milestones that a dad and a daughter

2530
02:16:25,400 --> 02:16:28,760
go through in life, whether it's from birth

2531
02:16:28,760 --> 02:16:32,160
to when they get married or they go away to college,

2532
02:16:32,160 --> 02:16:35,360
whatever that may be and all those little moments

2533
02:16:35,360 --> 02:16:37,440
that you have in between.

2534
02:16:37,440 --> 02:16:40,680
And each of those three books had little workbooks

2535
02:16:40,680 --> 02:16:45,240
in the back to help those conversations get started.

2536
02:16:45,240 --> 02:16:47,760
I had gone on and done, the day that I got sent home

2537
02:16:47,760 --> 02:16:50,800
from work, I had gone on and done a podcast in the morning

2538
02:16:50,800 --> 02:16:53,920
with Jeremy Sharlow, who we both know.

2539
02:16:53,920 --> 02:16:58,520
And that night his publisher had contacted me

2540
02:16:58,520 --> 02:17:01,480
and we started talking and I got two books published

2541
02:17:01,480 --> 02:17:03,840
to them in March of this year.

2542
02:17:05,040 --> 02:17:09,680
The one was called Since You've Been Gone.

2543
02:17:09,680 --> 02:17:13,920
And it was initially written for a young lady

2544
02:17:13,920 --> 02:17:16,520
that I knew who lost her daughter in a car accident.

2545
02:17:17,400 --> 02:17:19,880
And she was going to Liberty University

2546
02:17:19,880 --> 02:17:21,280
where I got my master's degree.

2547
02:17:21,280 --> 02:17:23,160
She was a special education teacher.

2548
02:17:23,160 --> 02:17:26,760
And I went to her funeral and listening to these kids

2549
02:17:26,760 --> 02:17:29,400
talk about everything that she did for them.

2550
02:17:29,400 --> 02:17:33,240
I was like, this is something I wanted to write a book

2551
02:17:33,240 --> 02:17:36,440
for kids to help them understand loss.

2552
02:17:36,440 --> 02:17:38,720
And I told the story through what the kids

2553
02:17:38,720 --> 02:17:39,720
were talking about.

2554
02:17:39,720 --> 02:17:42,800
Now, when they published it, they said they wanted

2555
02:17:42,800 --> 02:17:45,600
to use photographs instead of illustrations

2556
02:17:45,600 --> 02:17:47,400
because this book would reach anybody

2557
02:17:47,400 --> 02:17:49,240
that had lost somebody.

2558
02:17:49,240 --> 02:17:52,520
So I was like, you're the publishers, let's go with,

2559
02:17:52,520 --> 02:17:55,480
I wanna be able to put in who it's for and information

2560
02:17:55,480 --> 02:17:59,760
about Elsa who it was for and they were awesome about it.

2561
02:17:59,760 --> 02:18:02,640
We put that one out and then The Adventures of Taz,

2562
02:18:02,640 --> 02:18:04,520
which is the first in a series of books

2563
02:18:04,520 --> 02:18:07,960
about my service dog, Taz, who got donated to me

2564
02:18:07,960 --> 02:18:10,800
from a Fourth Watch Motorcycle Club

2565
02:18:10,800 --> 02:18:15,360
and Make Everything Great, which is two first responders

2566
02:18:15,360 --> 02:18:18,400
that are out of Fairfax and then Fourth Watch

2567
02:18:18,400 --> 02:18:20,520
is a motorcycle club of first responders.

2568
02:18:20,520 --> 02:18:24,320
And they wanted to donate a dog to, initially the dog

2569
02:18:24,320 --> 02:18:27,280
I was gonna get was named David after an officer

2570
02:18:27,280 --> 02:18:31,120
that had lost his life in the towers on 9-11.

2571
02:18:32,120 --> 02:18:34,640
Capital officer got killed in the line of duty

2572
02:18:34,640 --> 02:18:39,320
and they wanted to donate a dog to his family for his kids

2573
02:18:39,320 --> 02:18:42,000
and the daughter had an allergy to dogs.

2574
02:18:42,000 --> 02:18:45,960
So the dog that I was getting was a doodle of some sort.

2575
02:18:45,960 --> 02:18:47,400
So it was hypoallergenic.

2576
02:18:47,400 --> 02:18:48,840
So I was like, take that dog.

2577
02:18:48,840 --> 02:18:51,280
They called me and they're like, you don't have to do this

2578
02:18:51,280 --> 02:18:53,640
but if you would, I was like, don't even ask,

2579
02:18:53,640 --> 02:18:54,480
take the dog.

2580
02:18:55,480 --> 02:19:00,000
So I ended up with Taz, who was named after a firefighter

2581
02:19:00,000 --> 02:19:04,600
out in New Jersey that died in 2022 from cancer.

2582
02:19:05,520 --> 02:19:09,920
And Taz, when I got her was about eight pounds,

2583
02:19:09,920 --> 02:19:14,160
little white cotton ball and now she's 80 pounds

2584
02:19:14,160 --> 02:19:15,440
and a bowl and a china shop.

2585
02:19:15,440 --> 02:19:18,080
She's 18 months old so I get to take her out places

2586
02:19:18,080 --> 02:19:22,600
and I actually got to take her up to meet the family

2587
02:19:22,600 --> 02:19:25,320
of the firefighter a few months ago

2588
02:19:25,320 --> 02:19:28,680
and the guys from the 4th Watch Motorcycle Club

2589
02:19:28,680 --> 02:19:32,440
which was absolutely amazing.

2590
02:19:32,440 --> 02:19:37,200
Just getting to hear about Taz and everything he had done

2591
02:19:37,200 --> 02:19:41,200
and all that stuff and now I use the books.

2592
02:19:41,200 --> 02:19:43,700
I take them out, I got little cards made for her.

2593
02:19:44,920 --> 02:19:46,640
They're all on Amazon.

2594
02:19:46,640 --> 02:19:49,520
The two books, Since You've Been Gone

2595
02:19:49,520 --> 02:19:52,440
and The Adventures of Taz are on online bookstores

2596
02:19:52,440 --> 02:19:55,240
all over the world now thanks to the publishing company

2597
02:19:55,240 --> 02:19:59,280
Words Matter and I use those a lot.

2598
02:19:59,280 --> 02:20:00,680
Like I said, when I'm walking around,

2599
02:20:00,680 --> 02:20:03,680
if I carry them in my car and if I see little kids,

2600
02:20:03,680 --> 02:20:06,480
I'm like, hey, here's a book and this is Taz

2601
02:20:06,480 --> 02:20:09,280
and they get all excited and get to meet her.

2602
02:20:09,280 --> 02:20:13,160
So it's really, it's given me more opportunity

2603
02:20:13,160 --> 02:20:16,000
to open up conversations about stuff.

2604
02:20:16,000 --> 02:20:19,340
And she has been a godsend to me.

2605
02:20:19,340 --> 02:20:22,620
She's a knucklehead.

2606
02:20:22,620 --> 02:20:25,540
She blew my other, I just had my knee replaced

2607
02:20:25,540 --> 02:20:28,580
right before I retired, a year before I retired.

2608
02:20:28,580 --> 02:20:30,760
She's running around the house, took my other knee out

2609
02:20:30,760 --> 02:20:34,500
so the ACL is torn now because she ran into me

2610
02:20:34,500 --> 02:20:37,740
but she doesn't realize she's not eight pounds anymore.

2611
02:20:37,740 --> 02:20:38,580
But-

2612
02:20:38,580 --> 02:20:39,520
What breed is she?

2613
02:20:39,520 --> 02:20:42,140
She's an English cream retriever.

2614
02:20:42,140 --> 02:20:43,340
Oh, okay.

2615
02:20:43,340 --> 02:20:47,900
So she looks like, this is the book here.

2616
02:20:47,900 --> 02:20:50,580
So that's what she looked like when she was young.

2617
02:20:51,540 --> 02:20:52,900
Now she's much bigger.

2618
02:20:54,180 --> 02:20:58,280
And so she's very goofy and just like a retriever,

2619
02:20:58,280 --> 02:21:00,740
she steals my socks when I come home from work

2620
02:21:00,740 --> 02:21:02,560
and all this stuff.

2621
02:21:02,560 --> 02:21:05,500
But she knows, I don't know how she does it.

2622
02:21:05,500 --> 02:21:06,820
If I'm upset about something,

2623
02:21:06,820 --> 02:21:09,020
she comes over and puts her paw on my leg.

2624
02:21:10,060 --> 02:21:12,940
At night, if I'm like, I can't sleep or whatever,

2625
02:21:12,940 --> 02:21:15,300
she will hop on the bed and lay right next to me

2626
02:21:15,300 --> 02:21:18,400
to keep me from moving around and whatever.

2627
02:21:19,460 --> 02:21:21,580
Just, I don't know how they do it.

2628
02:21:21,580 --> 02:21:24,820
I don't know what is in these dog breeds.

2629
02:21:24,820 --> 02:21:26,820
She's got seven other brothers and sisters

2630
02:21:26,820 --> 02:21:29,420
that are all service dogs as well.

2631
02:21:29,420 --> 02:21:32,620
And just, she's been a godsend.

2632
02:21:32,620 --> 02:21:34,780
She's absolutely amazing, but not just

2633
02:21:34,780 --> 02:21:37,020
for what she does for me.

2634
02:21:37,020 --> 02:21:38,740
When I had her at work for the few weeks

2635
02:21:38,740 --> 02:21:40,540
that I was allowed to have her there,

2636
02:21:41,740 --> 02:21:44,140
giving people the opportunity to play with her

2637
02:21:44,140 --> 02:21:46,980
and start talking about their stuff.

2638
02:21:46,980 --> 02:21:51,140
And I get to take her to school in the fall,

2639
02:21:51,140 --> 02:21:53,420
so she's gonna be in there when I'm teaching.

2640
02:21:53,420 --> 02:21:57,540
And she opens up so many conversations

2641
02:21:57,540 --> 02:22:01,660
and just changes people's demeanors when they meet her.

2642
02:22:01,660 --> 02:22:04,180
And I absolutely, I'm blessed to have her

2643
02:22:04,180 --> 02:22:05,980
and absolutely love having her around

2644
02:22:05,980 --> 02:22:08,380
and getting to share her with people.

2645
02:22:08,380 --> 02:22:10,180
Beautiful, yeah, I adore mine.

2646
02:22:10,180 --> 02:22:11,780
And it's amazing the conversation to start

2647
02:22:11,780 --> 02:22:14,060
even just walking her around here.

2648
02:22:14,060 --> 02:22:15,380
So for people listening then,

2649
02:22:15,380 --> 02:22:16,580
if they wanna reach out to you

2650
02:22:16,580 --> 02:22:19,140
or find you on social media or the internet,

2651
02:22:19,140 --> 02:22:20,460
where are the best places?

2652
02:22:21,420 --> 02:22:26,420
Catalystofchangeassociates.com has all of my links.

2653
02:22:28,140 --> 02:22:31,180
Instagram is TheJPMcMichael.

2654
02:22:33,700 --> 02:22:35,900
And that's where I usually will post,

2655
02:22:37,580 --> 02:22:40,020
I post those little daily videos that I put up.

2656
02:22:40,020 --> 02:22:41,380
I try to do them daily.

2657
02:22:41,380 --> 02:22:46,220
TikTok, I've Catalyst JP is the handle for that.

2658
02:22:46,220 --> 02:22:49,420
I put the same stuff across the board

2659
02:22:49,420 --> 02:22:51,220
and it's basically like little videos

2660
02:22:51,220 --> 02:22:53,620
about whatever I'm thinking about at the time.

2661
02:22:54,740 --> 02:22:56,780
Now I'm trying to keep them under a minute

2662
02:22:56,780 --> 02:22:58,980
so they're in the little real form.

2663
02:22:58,980 --> 02:23:00,740
When I started doing this years ago,

2664
02:23:00,740 --> 02:23:01,980
I would talk and talk and talk

2665
02:23:01,980 --> 02:23:04,260
as we're sitting here doing today.

2666
02:23:04,260 --> 02:23:07,020
So people were like, you talk too much, you need to.

2667
02:23:07,020 --> 02:23:10,740
So I'm keeping them cut down to short things,

2668
02:23:10,740 --> 02:23:13,460
but just trying to put out stuff

2669
02:23:13,460 --> 02:23:15,500
to give people those little reminders.

2670
02:23:15,500 --> 02:23:18,420
Cause nothing that when I go out and teach,

2671
02:23:18,420 --> 02:23:19,580
there's nothing I'm teaching you

2672
02:23:19,580 --> 02:23:21,460
that you don't already know.

2673
02:23:21,460 --> 02:23:23,260
I'm just reminding you.

2674
02:23:23,260 --> 02:23:25,620
No different than you see guys like Tony Robbins

2675
02:23:25,620 --> 02:23:26,740
and them that are out there.

2676
02:23:26,740 --> 02:23:29,220
They're teaching you stuff you learned when you were a kid.

2677
02:23:29,220 --> 02:23:30,300
We've just forgotten it

2678
02:23:30,300 --> 02:23:32,540
because everything that's going on.

2679
02:23:32,540 --> 02:23:33,780
And letting people know,

2680
02:23:33,780 --> 02:23:35,220
yeah, what you're going through is tough,

2681
02:23:35,220 --> 02:23:36,460
you're struggling right now,

2682
02:23:36,460 --> 02:23:39,860
but take a step back and you're gonna be good.

2683
02:23:39,860 --> 02:23:41,260
You're gonna get stronger.

2684
02:23:42,420 --> 02:23:45,900
At the end of this, when everything passes by,

2685
02:23:45,900 --> 02:23:48,700
you're gonna be stronger than you were from the beginning.

2686
02:23:49,620 --> 02:23:50,740
Absolutely.

2687
02:23:50,740 --> 02:23:52,740
Well, I wanna say thank you so much.

2688
02:23:52,740 --> 02:23:55,060
It's been such an amazing conversation, obviously.

2689
02:23:55,060 --> 02:23:58,780
You know, your early life and journey into law enforcement

2690
02:23:58,780 --> 02:24:00,060
and the Pentagon story.

2691
02:24:00,060 --> 02:24:02,500
I mean, I don't think I've really had anyone else

2692
02:24:02,500 --> 02:24:03,820
talking about that specifically.

2693
02:24:03,820 --> 02:24:06,580
So that was, you know, obviously very powerful as well,

2694
02:24:06,580 --> 02:24:08,380
but then leadership and mental health

2695
02:24:08,380 --> 02:24:10,940
and the progress that we're seeing now.

2696
02:24:10,940 --> 02:24:12,380
And of course the books.

2697
02:24:12,380 --> 02:24:14,100
So I wanna thank you so, so much

2698
02:24:14,100 --> 02:24:15,620
for being so generous with your time

2699
02:24:15,620 --> 02:24:18,900
and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

2700
02:24:18,900 --> 02:24:19,980
Likewise, brother.

2701
02:24:20,980 --> 02:24:24,420
We crossed paths at that Operation Enduring Warrior event

2702
02:24:24,420 --> 02:24:28,340
and I've followed you since then.

2703
02:24:28,340 --> 02:24:31,780
The work that you do is absolutely amazing.

2704
02:24:31,780 --> 02:24:34,220
The gifts that you give the people is great

2705
02:24:34,220 --> 02:24:37,380
and it is an honor to be able to be on here with you

2706
02:24:37,380 --> 02:24:40,500
and to be included with all the amazing people

2707
02:24:40,500 --> 02:24:42,220
that you've had on the show before.

2708
02:24:42,220 --> 02:25:08,520
же