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Again, I snap it on if I go to the station and then I can remove it for the next two

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a short barrel rifle in there, there's a concealed carry pocket.

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Welcome to episode 304 of Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week I am extremely excited to welcome on

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the show Tamir Najipane.

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Now Tamir is originally from Hungary and was a victim of human trafficking forced into

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the sex industry in Canada.

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Was able to liberate herself and now is not only telling the story but is also an advocate

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for victims of human trafficking.

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So an incredible conversation.

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We talk about how she started working with Deliver Fund and I had Nick McKinley on the

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show about a year ago now.

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So this is an area that I was really struck when I spoke to Nick as far as when you are

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a first responder, how many of the men and women that you treat, that you deal with,

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that come into custody may actually be victims of sex trafficking or human trafficking and

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we don't even realize that that's actually happening.

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So I think this is very pertinent not only for us, the first responders, but also the

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rest of the community in identifying people that may be in trouble.

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You will hear during this discussion how there were opportunities for these men and women

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to be able to be rescued and they were not recognized.

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So a very, very powerful episode.

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I hope that everyone out there listens to the entire thing and really reframes the way

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they look at men and women when they're out in the community.

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So before we get to the interview, like I always say, please just take a moment, go

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to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating,

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the five star ratings and thank you.

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I'm seeing more and more coming in.

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They really do help make this podcast more visible.

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And as I mentioned, this is a free library.

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So all I want is to get everyone to share these episodes so they can get to the men

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and women that need to hear them.

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And this one with Tamir, as you can imagine, the more people on planet earth are educated

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on human trafficking, the more of these young men and women that we can protect.

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So with that being said, I introduced to you Tamir Najpain.

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Enjoy.

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Well, Tamir, I want to start by saying thank you so much for agreeing to come on the behind

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the shield podcast.

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It's absolutely my pleasure.

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And I've been truly looking forward to it.

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So thank you so much for having me.

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Thank you.

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Well, I know Nick McKinley, I asked him a while ago, I said, do you know any people

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that have actually been trafficked?

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I think that's a very powerful story.

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And his story of being an advocate is incredible.

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But I think that your story today is really going to really paint a picture of I think

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what you went through, but also a lot of the myths that people think about trafficking

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that you just grabbed by some dude in a van and pulled in and that's it.

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But I think it's a lot more scary when you hear how vulnerable an average man or woman

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is to some of these traffickers.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Which is what I like to actually talk about the most is how it really happens and what

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got me, what led me to being trafficked.

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There's a lot of myth and that's why I was just really excited to do this interview because

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it is different than what mainstream media would like to project and what usually ends

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up in mainstream media, which is usually why I don't do mainstream media anymore.

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Brilliant.

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Well, I'm honored that you chose to come on here.

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So thank you.

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So where on planet Earth are we finding you today?

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Right now I am in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

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And just about four days ago, I took over this tiny, cute little basement apartment,

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believe it or not, in a very famous area called Hyde Park.

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In the middle of COVID, I was approached by a company to help them through the pandemic.

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So I needed a home office away from home and my screaming cats.

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So I am commuting here once a week and I conduct basically all of my calls for all of the work

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that I do.

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They deliver a fund with this organization and service providers around the world right

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now.

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So huge little basement.

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I feel like I'm a university student, you know, eating craft dinner and being on the

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phone all day.

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But that's where I'm at.

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Where are you at?

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I'm in Ocala, which is right in the middle of the state of Florida.

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So you stick a pin right in the middle of the little triangle and that's where we are.

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So it's known for its horse farms.

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Very beautiful part of Florida.

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That's so beautiful.

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Maybe one day when this craziness is over, I have to come in with it.

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Oh, absolutely.

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I'll be up in Canada at some point too, I'm hoping.

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And it's interesting you said Hyde Park.

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I know a lot of the story takes place in Waterloo and there's a lot of London themed areas of

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Toronto.

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Yeah, so it's actually called Hyde Park and most of my story, believe it or not, actually,

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so actually the healing part happened here.

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So after I was trafficked, I moved down here to Hyde Park and this is where the restaurant

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is from the book called Medieval Times.

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So I actually lived here from the age of 21 to 30, 32 and I'm 42 now, so 10 years later

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I returned and it's a little bit of a full circle for sure.

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Brilliant.

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All right.

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Well, clearly you were not born in Toronto.

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So let's start at the very beginning.

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Where were you born and what was your family dynamic?

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What did your parents do?

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Yeah, it was an interesting one.

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I was born in Hungary, Budapest in 1977, so it wasn't yesterday.

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And I was born into communism and my parents had an interesting background actually.

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So I'm probably third generation of generational trauma, if you will.

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So mom was coming from a white Caucasian-Hungarian family and they very much lived in cities

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and served public.

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I have soldiers in my family.

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I had judges.

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I had crown attorneys or prosecutors in my family and people who worked for the Royal

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Hungarian media.

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And my mom was a police officer or became one.

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And then my other side of the family is interesting is my father actually was an orphan and he

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came from a Gypsy family.

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So he was one out of nine children.

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But what was interesting about both of them is that they both grew up, they were both

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born 1950 and they both grew up through very difficult times.

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So just five years after the Second World War ended, so there was really no food, their

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parents obviously were going through so much trauma from or just recovering through the

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times when there's no psychiatrists or let's talk about your feelings, you know.

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So then that the next thing happened was 1956, the revolution, when the Russians came and

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basically there was a big war and a lot of people died.

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And so my parents were six years old when that happened.

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And so that just kind of carried them through their whole life.

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Mom developed a lot of like deep mental illness due to trauma and dad also did, but he ended

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up using alcohol to kind of soar that pain.

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So the growing up in Hungary, Budapest in the 1970s was I already came into a family

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that inherited a lot of trauma, not being able to communicate with each other.

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Alcohol was the only solution, lots of domestic violence, and they did literally the best

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they could to raise us.

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We were very poor and you know, it was very normal.

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That was our normal.

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You look at anywhere and that's kind of was the normal.

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Again, we grew up very poor, so until I was seven years old, I grew up in a house where

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we had one bedroom and we slept four of us on one bed.

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There was no bathroom, so my mom was bathing us in a kitchen sink.

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And I would have to line up on the outside of the house to use the toilet at 3 a.m.,

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4 a.m., minus 20, it doesn't matter.

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So that was kind of my childhood in a nutshell.

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And as communism kind of flourished and turned into socialism, mom was becoming more important

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in her job, so we were able to kind of move out of the very poor area of Budapest and

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we were moved into like an apartment complex where basically we started being raised by

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you know, society, neighbors, teachers, and our parents.

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But again, there was just a lot of trauma, domestic violence.

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We saw suicide in Hungary is huge.

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So it's just a culture, unfortunately.

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So I wasn't even 10 years old until I wasn't even 10 years old and I experienced suicide

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on different levels around us.

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I saw a lady jumping out the window.

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I saw a lady jumping right in front of us in a streetcar.

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So yeah, interesting childhood, interesting dynamics, but there was some good to it too.

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And if you want to hear about the happy moments, happy to talk about that too.

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But definitely by the age of 12, I had enough trauma for, you know, 10 people to carry.

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And I wasn't even aware of it.

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Yeah.

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Well, I mean, I definitely want to get to the good side as well because it's amazing

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how much joy people can find amidst tragedy.

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But thinking back, and I'm not very good with my history, but Hungary was in the First World

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War, wasn't it?

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Austro-Hungarian War, they call that, I believe.

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And so then you went right into the Second World War and then after that you had the

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Russian invasion.

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So it's horrendous, not only the wars, but I was watching Ken Burns' Vietnam documentary

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and I just finished it yesterday and then it showed basically when everyone left, you

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know, the country was ravaged and there was another war.

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I think that involved the Russians and the Chinese as well.

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And that's the thing we don't think about.

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It's probably the same in the Middle East at the moment is once this war is done and

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those soldiers all leave, the men and women that live there now and the children are in

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a very, very different place.

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But it sounds like poor Hungary was, you know, once it was finally probably starting to recover,

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it just got battered again.

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Yeah, it just really never ended.

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And you're right, like my mom and dad, they were six years old.

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And when the 56 Revolution ended, when they came out of their hiding places, their bunkers,

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they walked through the streets and they walked by piles and piles of dead bodies.

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My mom lost her father, so I never met my grandfather who got shot by the rebels.

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So it's just, you know, and then you live in communism where you are completely stripped

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away from your freedom.

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You're in fear all the time.

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You have to work for the government.

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You can't have your own thoughts.

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And then socialism and then all of the sudden, so when my parents were about, I want to say

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30, you know, they lived their whole life being taught to become communists and you

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need to do the right thing and work for the government.

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They were 30, I was 15 or 35, I was 15.

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And now there's no more communism, no more socialism.

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Now we are all of the sudden, we love the West and now we are Democrats.

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So everything that you were raised to believe in, you learn Russian, but now it's not cool

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anymore.

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Now you need to speak English.

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You would go to jail one day if you watched an American movie or had a dollar in your

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pocket, but literally the next day when the wall came down, now it's all good.

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And now Americans are awesome.

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I mean, how do you process that as an adult, let alone as a child?

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So at 15, or I was about 14 when the wall came down, we were raised in a whole different

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society, right?

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You go to school, you get good grades, you go to middle school, you get your second education,

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the government will pay for it and everything is free.

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You just need to do the right thing and, you know, obey the laws and be a good communist

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and learn Russian and your whole future is ahead of you and it's all planned out for

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you.

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You can be whatever you want within the sectors, right?

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So I'm being raised to be a good little communist and do all the right things and only when

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I'm 14 and I'm supposed to go into middle school, there's nothing there anymore and

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I'm not qualified for anything because I speak Russian, not English.

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We don't have money.

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I can't learn computer.

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I can't even buy a computer and now I'm left to my own devices, let alone like not only

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that my family fell apart completely, the society that was there to cat me together

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completely disappeared too.

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So my generation gone through a huge identity crisis, which is when a lot of Eastern European

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00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:12,280
girls actually started to head out to the West, which is when all the huge sex trafficking,

232
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:13,280
you know, started.

233
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:19,680
Yeah, and that's the problem is that these predators prey on the weak, on the victims

234
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:25,400
and you see that so often with migrants from all over the place, whether it's sex work,

235
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,080
whether it's just basically, you know, manual labor, slavery, which I know you touch on

236
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,560
as well in the book and I want to make sure we cover that.

237
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:36,600
But yeah, I mean, it's disgusting how these people are fleeing and some of them, you know,

238
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,620
don't even make the journey to where they're trying to get to or they get an even worse

239
00:16:40,620 --> 00:16:42,120
life where they move to.

240
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:43,120
Right.

241
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:44,120
Absolutely.

242
00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:50,600
It's just that evil is there to, you know, pick up any chance you get.

243
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:51,760
Yeah, exactly.

244
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:56,200
Well, just before we move on, so tell me, tell me the good things amidst all that, you

245
00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:01,760
know, that gray oppression that you were raised in earlier.

246
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,000
What was some of the golden moments?

247
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:11,920
Well, I don't know why, but I was given some I don't know if it's a gift or not, but I

248
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:16,160
was given some talent and I really enjoyed kind of exploiting them.

249
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,000
So I love drawing.

250
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,840
So I entered into all kinds of competitions in school.

251
00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:27,560
I loved singing and the school kind of recognized that I have a little bit of a voice.

252
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:32,120
So they sent me to competitions, national and regional.

253
00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:38,500
And I loved I loved my community, even at the age of, you know, to believe it or not.

254
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:44,440
So I was always like very strong with justice and injustice.

255
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,520
And I always wanted to stand up for others.

256
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:51,160
So I actually became like an advocate in my school for a million things.

257
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,480
I got a million medals before I was even 10.

258
00:17:54,480 --> 00:18:00,640
As a result, I was able to go to the parliament and I was able to do so many things that like,

259
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,960
you know, an average kid can't really say that they did.

260
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,000
But I loved every moment of it.

261
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,720
And the other thing that came with the fact that mom was a cop in Eastern European block

262
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:20,560
during the communism that you can actually go and go and use all of the police foundation

263
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:25,120
summer camps in Hungary and anywhere else in Eastern Europe.

264
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:27,760
So every summer I was gone.

265
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,640
Soon as school was over, we were done, gone out of the house and didn't come home till

266
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:40,000
August and learned all kinds of stuff, how to live in a vile wilderness, how to start

267
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,080
your own fire, you know, survival skills.

268
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,040
And I mean, there's so many great things.

269
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:53,040
So what I always say is and what I said in a book to when it was good, it was amazing.

270
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,920
And when it was bad, it was really bad.

271
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,200
And it just it was hot and cold.

272
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,600
Like one minute I was the happiest kid and everything was great.

273
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:06,560
But next minute something really bad happened at home and I just needed to find a way to

274
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:07,560
cope with it.

275
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:08,560
Yeah.

276
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,480
Well, so you've laid a great foundation.

277
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:11,480
So there you are.

278
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,600
You're thriving in the education side.

279
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:18,440
You have all these other outlets with your singing, the summer camps.

280
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:24,680
So you know, again, smashing myth number one, you weren't, you know, on the streets living

281
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,320
as a, you know, being raised by wolves kind of thing.

282
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,600
You know, you had that that household.

283
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:35,280
So kind of lead us through how you got to the point where you needed to to find the

284
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,080
money and ultimately looked at the advert.

285
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:39,080
Yeah.

286
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:49,600
So when I was 16, mom depression really started to come out and her other mental illness that

287
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,160
nobody really detected yet.

288
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:58,200
So she was actually sent to a sanatorium and also she hurt her back really bad.

289
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:04,680
So she went away to a sanatorium for I think it was three to four weeks and then she had

290
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:09,520
to go to another sanatorium for her back for another two weeks.

291
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:14,520
And then my brother who was 18 at the time, he was called into the army because back in

292
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:19,760
a day in Hungary, if you're 18, you turn 18, you get called into an army and you have to

293
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,880
serve a year and a half.

294
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,240
And just so that you know what to do if there is a war again.

295
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,240
Right.

296
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,920
So that was called and here I am all by myself, 16 years old.

297
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:31,920
Mom is in the hospital.

298
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:36,760
Zoli is in the army, my brother and off you go.

299
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,680
So I started kind of looking after myself as much as I could.

300
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:45,400
And at the time I didn't really realize that, you know, holy crap, like I'm alone.

301
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:46,400
I don't have parents.

302
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:52,120
Like I didn't really realize I had a boyfriend who was always with me, who was actually very

303
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:53,120
abusive verbally.

304
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:55,280
But I didn't realize that it was bad.

305
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:56,280
That was my normal.

306
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,800
And I started working for a TV station.

307
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,880
And so I was kind of happy as a pig, if you will.

308
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,840
And then my brother came back from the army and mom came back from the hospital.

309
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:13,240
And I just realized that like, hey, I didn't pay a lot of bills and we are going really

310
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,240
behind.

311
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,600
But I don't want mom to worry too much because she just came out of the hospital.

312
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:25,520
So anyways, for like another two years, we tried to like do our very best to pay the

313
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:30,200
bills and but it really wasn't working out well.

314
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:34,920
And then mom, thank God, met the love of her life.

315
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:40,560
And by this time I was 18 and they wanted to actually move in with us, her and her new

316
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,440
boyfriend.

317
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,840
She never bought any men to our house ever since dad left.

318
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:52,040
So it was kind of new and my brother and I said we said them down and we said, no, look,

319
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:53,920
we are going to be very responsible.

320
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:55,760
We're going to take care of the house.

321
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,680
We're going to take care of everything.

322
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,920
If you guys want to move out, good on you.

323
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,360
But we want to be independent.

324
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:08,080
So after a lot of struggle and negotiation, mom and my stepdad decided that they're going

325
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,400
to move into his house, not far from ours.

326
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,120
And we promised that we're going to take care of everything.

327
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:19,240
Well, little did we know that what is that really means, right?

328
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,000
So I'm 18, my brother is now 21.

329
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,040
And honestly, we made a lot of money.

330
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,560
I started making a lot of money.

331
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:27,920
Zoli was making money.

332
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,200
We were like swimming in dough, but we were young.

333
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:37,120
And I'm still like, I still have all the trauma from my childhood.

334
00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:42,040
So even though we have money, they have a house to live in, we weren't homeless by all

335
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:43,040
means.

336
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:49,120
I didn't have the capacity that I thought I would to take care of everything.

337
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:53,240
I didn't have financial training.

338
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,760
So a lot of people said, your mom should have never left you.

339
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,880
I'm like, yeah, should have, could have, would have, it is what it is.

340
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,960
We can blame all we want on anybody.

341
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,960
At the end of the day, it is what it is that happened.

342
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:16,040
So by the time I was 19, 19 and a half, I lost all of my contracts from the TV station.

343
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,960
And we started drying out completely financially.

344
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,360
And mom had another heart attack.

345
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:29,740
And we just, we were really scared to tell her that we are falling behind on the bills

346
00:23:29,740 --> 00:23:34,040
because we were concerned for her health and we didn't want to worry her.

347
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,720
We didn't want her to want her to move back with us and her husband.

348
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,040
So there's a lot of factors, right?

349
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,120
But truth is we were going broke.

350
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:47,920
Eventually we had nothing to eat and we really didn't want to tell mom because we didn't

351
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,460
want her to really worry about us.

352
00:23:51,460 --> 00:23:55,040
So I thought that I'm going to fix this.

353
00:23:55,040 --> 00:24:03,280
And while we were like really drying out financially, we got a notice that our house is going to

354
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,900
be taken away in three months if we don't pay the bills.

355
00:24:07,900 --> 00:24:10,360
So that's when the panic set in.

356
00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:16,000
And Azulie and I, my brother and I were both started looking for jobs and by then we owed

357
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,440
so much money.

358
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:23,720
We had no idea how much we owed until we saw all the bills.

359
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,240
And that's when it all started.

360
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:33,040
We were so desperate to save our home and to make sure mom will never find out and that

361
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,680
she doesn't die of a heart attack.

362
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,000
That's how I ended up finding the ad to come to Canada.

363
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:40,000
Yeah.

364
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:45,840
And just to put myself out there, I lost a home and obviously I wasn't a young man and

365
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:53,520
I wasn't in Hungary but I know that fear because I struggled to tell my wife that it was initiated

366
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:54,800
from my previous divorce.

367
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:59,520
So I was kind of behind and trying to fight to save it but in the end didn't.

368
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,480
It was a horrible, horrible feeling because you're drowning and those bills all add up

369
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,760
and there's no way of recovering by that point.

370
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,800
And yeah, that not wanting to tell someone, I completely relate.

371
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,520
Obviously, it's a different context but I totally understand the fear of telling someone

372
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,440
what you think is going to ruin them.

373
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,480
Oh, I'm so sorry you have to go through that too.

374
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,920
Yeah, well, things are good now.

375
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:26,640
Like you're talking about your basement.

376
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:31,040
I'm in a good place now but yeah, I want to be honest that I've lost one as well so I

377
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,040
can totally relate.

378
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,040
Well, you know what?

379
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,280
And that's where the full circle is.

380
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,400
I'm sitting in this cute little basement in High Park but I have a home.

381
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,240
I actually have a house which is about an hour and away from here.

382
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:49,080
And so I'm thinking to myself 22 years later after everything I've been through, I have

383
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:50,080
two homes now.

384
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,080
Who would have thought?

385
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:57,000
You know how lucky I am and I'm just so grateful but yeah, it was terrible.

386
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,480
And so that's where the desperation came from.

387
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:02,480
Yeah.

388
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,000
So, and then the thing is, so you found a solution which seemed like it would be a great

389
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:14,440
option which is to answer an ad where they were looking for nannies in Canada.

390
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:19,920
So lead me through again, I'm not wanting you to tell the whole book.

391
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:25,400
I mean, obviously that's what the book's for but just kind of overview of how you were

392
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,560
made to believe that was the case and obviously, you know, the story of how that wasn't the

393
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:30,560
case.

394
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:31,560
Right.

395
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:40,240
So the way I spelled it out in the book, the truth is in the book, in the article, and

396
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:49,040
it did say, you know, nannies, Hungarian girls, Hungarian families and general work wanted

397
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,040
to get $500 a month, right?

398
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:57,720
So I went to meet the agency and you know what?

399
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,480
She talked to me about being a nanny.

400
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,440
She talked to me about being a general worker at Hungarian houses cleaning toilets, but

401
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,020
she also talked about being a go-go dancer in a nightclub, right?

402
00:27:09,020 --> 00:27:14,040
And she said, these are all the jobs we have available, whichever you think you want to

403
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:15,040
do.

404
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:21,040
But for us to get you into the country, we are going to have to get very creative with

405
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:22,600
your visa.

406
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:27,040
So that's how the whole conversation happened.

407
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,120
I didn't know what visa is.

408
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:31,320
I didn't know what immigration is.

409
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,680
We didn't have immigration at the time in Hungary because no one was allowed and I never

410
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,480
even heard of it, right?

411
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,680
So I don't understand what she's talking about.

412
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:48,360
All I heard at the age of, you know, 20 with all my background and being super desperate,

413
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:56,760
all I heard is that there's a job, I can get $1500 and I can go to Canada.

414
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:03,280
And the last one was important because by this time, by the time I read this ad and

415
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:11,480
you know, because you read my book, it wasn't just financial issues, emotionally, I was

416
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,080
going down in a very dark spiral.

417
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,800
My boyfriend was very verbally abusive.

418
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,760
I felt like a no one.

419
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,680
I had no support.

420
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,200
I had zero positive relationships.

421
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,400
There was no safe island around me.

422
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,560
By this time, my job wasn't there for me.

423
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,320
I lost everything.

424
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,960
Gradually, everything disappeared.

425
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,240
So I didn't just needed the money and save our home.

426
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,240
In a sense, I needed to save myself too.

427
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,800
And that is the truth.

428
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:47,800
Right.

429
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:48,800
Yeah.

430
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,200
And I think that's probably why they were able to manipulate you the way, you know,

431
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,360
we're going to hear in a minute.

432
00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:01,160
So but this, what I found fascinating is, you know, so right now you're walking through

433
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,920
the door and it seems like an agency that matches you up with work overseas.

434
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:10,200
And when I was a young man, I actually worked for an agency that did the same thing on American

435
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:11,200
summer camps.

436
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:12,360
And that was completely legit.

437
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:18,280
I didn't have to dance or anything but you know, those agencies exist all the time.

438
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:23,000
So there's no reason for you to, you know, initially think that anything was wrong.

439
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:30,520
But tell me about, you know, when you got there and how that was actually not what you

440
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,560
were being promised at all.

441
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:43,560
So basically, I got to Canada that, you know, they're they paid for the ticket and, you

442
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,920
know, the paperwork they give me in English.

443
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:53,080
I got to Canada and when I got to the immigration and this is a very long story, so I'm going

444
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,480
to just cut through.

445
00:29:54,480 --> 00:30:01,680
When I got to the immigration, they basically interrogated me for six hours and they just

446
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,400
really didn't like what they were hearing.

447
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:10,640
So they turned me around, but I couldn't leave that night because there was no more flights.

448
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:18,520
So they just handed me over to my agents, which ended up becoming the international

449
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,120
trafficking ring.

450
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,960
And that's when everything started.

451
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:29,120
I was taken to a motel and at the motel, I was told that, you know, I messed up really

452
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:34,440
bad and I owe them so much money and now there's no way for me to do babysitting.

453
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,760
Now I have to make this money up as fast as possible because we need to pay off our debt

454
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:43,200
because if we don't, then they're going to cut my brother's throat, my mom's throat,

455
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,680
and then they're going to leave me last.

456
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:50,400
So and that's when they took me to a strip joint and that was my first time being in

457
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,320
a strip joint and doing anything like that.

458
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:54,320
Yeah.

459
00:30:54,320 --> 00:31:01,000
So again, just to paint the pictures, they basically created a fraudulent scenario that

460
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:05,720
made you believe that you are now already thousands of dollars in debt to these people

461
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:10,680
because they supposed visa fees and the new passport.

462
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:15,320
So right away, they've got this giant hook in you where you were trapped.

463
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,080
I mean, geographically, you were trapped.

464
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:21,040
You were in another country, all these strangers are telling you that you owed them a huge

465
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:22,040
amount of money.

466
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,560
They were threatening your brother's life if it wasn't paid.

467
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:30,980
And then so that is why they basically took away all the other options and the only one

468
00:31:30,980 --> 00:31:36,240
was to be able to make the money fast enough now was that you had to dance at the club.

469
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:37,240
Exactly.

470
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:38,240
Exactly.

471
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,420
And you know, there's another side to it too, right?

472
00:31:42,420 --> 00:31:47,360
So when I'm sitting there and they telling me this and there is a I'm not going to give

473
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,880
away the part that who this guy is who picked me up from the airport.

474
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:57,080
When you read the book, you'll be stunned.

475
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:02,640
But let's just say that he's an authority figure from my past.

476
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:10,200
And growing up in a communism, you don't question authorities or I didn't anyways.

477
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:15,440
That's what and that's my personality to I obey authority.

478
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,960
If I'm given an order, I follow it for the most part.

479
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,560
That's how I grew up at home.

480
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:21,560
Right.

481
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:28,760
So if somebody an adult and a authority figure tells me that this is how it is, I don't even

482
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,920
have the capacity to question it at this time of my life.

483
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:33,920
Right.

484
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,680
So so, you know, I've been told many times like, well, why would you believe them that

485
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,000
you owe them and I'm like, oh, my goodness, where to start?

486
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,560
I'm 20 years old.

487
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,960
I remember when you were 20 and how naive you were.

488
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:51,800
And on the top of it, like me being brainwashed, I mean, the perfect combination.

489
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:59,440
I was the perfect, perfect, perfect victim mindset, like perfect, so vulnerable and not

490
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:00,440
even funny.

491
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:01,440
Yeah.

492
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,600
And then you were alongside many, many other women from Hungary.

493
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,880
So clearly it wasn't just you were naive and stupid.

494
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,880
No, that this was this is clearly worked on hundreds of women before you were ever even

495
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:15,880
approached.

496
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:16,880
True.

497
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:17,880
Exactly.

498
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,280
And not just Hungarian, but Eastern European girls.

499
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:22,280
Absolutely.

500
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,280
Yeah.

501
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,200
So I think one area I think that was very interesting about the book and it's a horrible

502
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,640
topic, but that's the whole point.

503
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:30,640
We need to talk about it.

504
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:36,520
We need to talk about it very courageously in the book is when you start getting sexually

505
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:43,320
abused, which is basically day one when you walk in there, how even then your mind is

506
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,920
kind of questioning is this even rape?

507
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:54,040
Because again, you think you're just, is this person trying to be the boyfriend as it were?

508
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:58,680
So kind of lead me through your thoughts there because I mean, it's horrible to read it as

509
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:03,200
a reader because you're like, of course this is rape, but you know, you're you're being

510
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,720
told this fictional story and they're slowly breaking you down even sexually as well.

511
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:08,720
Yeah.

512
00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:13,840
So that's the that's the crazy part that people just can't comprehend.

513
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:14,840
Right.

514
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:20,880
Like when we say in trainings that the victim doesn't even understand that she or he is

515
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,640
being trafficked.

516
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,160
This is what we mean by it.

517
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:25,160
Right.

518
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:30,760
So in that sense, like traffic, it does not match with the actual when you're in it.

519
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:31,760
It just doesn't match.

520
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,040
It doesn't make any sense.

521
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,480
But that's a whole other story.

522
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:42,120
So the first night I was taking to the club, I was taken down to the office to sign paperwork

523
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:49,920
coding code and the club owner and my Canadian, I guess, handler or manager.

524
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,080
I didn't speak English.

525
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,600
She didn't speak Hungarian, so you can imagine there wasn't a lot of conversation.

526
00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:02,280
And he basically got me completely, you know, undressed and he helped himself with my body.

527
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:09,360
And the whole time he was doing it, all I was thinking is like, OK, so if he's kissing

528
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,480
me, does that mean he's going to be my boyfriend?

529
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,060
But is that mean I'm cheating on my boyfriend back home?

530
00:35:17,060 --> 00:35:19,960
And why is he doing this to me?

531
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:21,520
And is this a rape?

532
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:26,480
And I'm like, no, it can be a rape because I saw rape in movies and the girls are screaming.

533
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,220
He's not like hurting me.

534
00:35:28,220 --> 00:35:30,520
So I don't understand what's going on.

535
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:36,800
And at the end, I just my conclusion was like, it's kind of like when you go to a gynecologist

536
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,760
or a doctor, it's really uncomfortable for five minutes.

537
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,160
But if you just stay still, it will be over before you know it.

538
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,240
So that's what I that's what was going through my head.

539
00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:54,520
The last thing was that went through my head that this I was 20, 21, 20, 20, 20, 21.

540
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,200
This guy was 43 at the time.

541
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:57,200
Right.

542
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,940
So to me at the time, he was old.

543
00:35:59,940 --> 00:36:05,480
And so all I could think of at the end is that if my mom finds this out, I'm dead.

544
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:06,900
She'll kill me.

545
00:36:06,900 --> 00:36:08,440
That was my mindset.

546
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,260
So I felt guilty.

547
00:36:10,260 --> 00:36:11,740
I felt ashamed.

548
00:36:11,740 --> 00:36:14,360
And I felt that this is all my fault.

549
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:23,720
And I did not recognize that I was sexually assaulted or raped in a sense, which is crazy.

550
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:29,760
So and moving forward through the next three months, this happened over and over it, not

551
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:37,520
just by him, but other people who just came to our motel, not just in the club.

552
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:42,320
And over there, too, when it happened, I would just, you know, lie down, close my eyes and

553
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:46,200
just imagine that I'm going somewhere else.

554
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:53,240
But never for one second did I thought of myself that I was a prostitute or that I was

555
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:54,460
being pimped.

556
00:36:54,460 --> 00:36:58,240
I didn't even realize that that was happening to me.

557
00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:03,860
Not until three months later until finally I was able to have a conversation with somebody

558
00:37:03,860 --> 00:37:06,720
after I realized that I can.

559
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:12,720
They were asking me like, you do realize you are pimped out and I'm like, I'm not pimped

560
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:13,720
out.

561
00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:14,720
I know what pimps are.

562
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:15,720
They stand on the street.

563
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:17,640
I'm not pimped out and I'm not a prostitute.

564
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:22,880
I didn't even know that I was a prostitute and that I was pimped out.

565
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,400
I had no idea until someone told me.

566
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:26,400
Yeah.

567
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,920
Well, and I've had people on several guests on the show, men and women who were sexually

568
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,440
abused when they were younger.

569
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,520
And it's the same thing that fear, you know, some of them were very young, some of them

570
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,880
were in their teens and they were completely frozen by fear.

571
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:46,120
And all it would have taken was to actually pull a family member aside and tell them,

572
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:47,280
you know, convince them.

573
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,320
But that's easy for the outsider to say, oh, you should have just told someone.

574
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,880
When you are terrified, especially when you're alone either as a child in a family home or,

575
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,640
you know, as you were in a foreign country knowing absolutely no one, not even knowing

576
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,960
the language to be able to communicate that that completely reframes it, you know.

577
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:09,280
And of course, now telling your story, it must be, you know, clear as day.

578
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:14,240
But at the time when you're in it with with the upbringing that you had and the only kind

579
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:22,900
of exposure to a lot of these was movies, I can completely see how the inability to

580
00:38:22,900 --> 00:38:27,040
process it must have been incredible.

581
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,640
Yeah, it was.

582
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,560
I was completely blocked to it.

583
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:36,360
And the part that I missed out from my childhood that I was also sexually assaulted before

584
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,960
I was 12, two times.

585
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:43,640
So those experiences were that's when everything started.

586
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:50,360
And I always say is that especially a woman who I end up in the sex work or sex trafficking

587
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,880
world, not everyone.

588
00:38:53,880 --> 00:39:04,480
But if we were molested before, you know, before, you know, 20 or 21, age of 21, we,

589
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:14,140
you know, we endured this split in our brain that just changed us forever.

590
00:39:14,140 --> 00:39:24,520
And so if I had a proper family, if I had a father, if I knew what unconditional love

591
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:33,600
was from a man, like from my father, if if I had a stable home and self confidence, a

592
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,820
solid self confidence.

593
00:39:36,820 --> 00:39:44,040
If I had help, if I had my surrounding, you know, adults, if they knew, and if I would

594
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:49,200
have reached out, there's so many ifs, I would have never came to Canada.

595
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:54,320
I would have never like the minute I would have gone to that interview, I would have

596
00:39:54,320 --> 00:40:01,960
been healthy enough to recognize that this is a really bad idea, which is why there is

597
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,560
a lot of people don't get trafficked.

598
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,600
I have a stepdaughter who grew up in an amazing family.

599
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,940
She's gorgeous and stunning.

600
00:40:10,940 --> 00:40:15,680
And when she was approached by a pimp, she taught him where to go.

601
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,240
And she taught him off.

602
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:24,880
And he'll never he never came back because they don't want strong, strong minded, not

603
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,040
vulnerable victims because they can't control them.

604
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:30,880
My stepdaughter, you cannot control her.

605
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,720
And you don't want somebody like that in your stable.

606
00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:38,440
You can fully control me, which is why I was a perfect candidate.

607
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,680
And many of us are.

608
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:41,680
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

609
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:46,280
And I hear that a lot with with the abuse and even with with violence, even with the

610
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:50,220
school shootings, like these are all cowards.

611
00:40:50,220 --> 00:40:55,400
So when in whatever situation it is, they are approached, whether it's, you know, in

612
00:40:55,400 --> 00:41:00,900
a in a hallway where they're walking into the school or obviously in in a family situation

613
00:41:00,900 --> 00:41:05,200
and someone's abusing them when they have the strength to stand up.

614
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:09,200
These people cower, you know, generally, you know, that the the the predator because they

615
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,240
are, you know, weak, cowardly pieces of shit, excuse my language.

616
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:14,340
But that's the problem.

617
00:41:14,340 --> 00:41:15,720
That's the weak prey on the weak.

618
00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:23,800
And so I think the more people like you and Nick that get this, you know, problem out

619
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:29,960
there, it knowledge is power and it will empower men and women that see the potential of this.

620
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:35,240
And my audience, when I spoke to Nick the first time, it was kind of heart wrenching

621
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:37,120
because I had a realization.

622
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:41,320
Did I ever miss a trafficked victim in all my time as a medic?

623
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:46,860
You know, did I have any any women or men who were being abused that I missed, you know,

624
00:41:46,860 --> 00:41:50,960
because he some of the things that he told me about, I wouldn't have thought until he

625
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:51,960
educated me.

626
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:56,320
So I think, you know, what you're doing is incredible because you are empowering people

627
00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:01,440
and you are educating them and hopefully some people will listen to your story here and

628
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,920
obviously read your book and your other interviews and and it will save lives and stop people

629
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,280
from even walking into that office.

630
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,000
I appreciate you saying that.

631
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,400
That is the whole goal of everything that Nick and Deliver Fund is doing.

632
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:21,360
And that's the whole goal of obviously my advocacy for the last 11 years, because once

633
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:26,680
you get into it, once you get lured in, I don't care if you were in it for a day or

634
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:36,520
10 minutes, it will shatter your life for years and it will take years to rebuild if

635
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,000
you can rebuild.

636
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:39,000
Yeah.

637
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,200
Well, another area that I think is very, very important, it was funny because it's something

638
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:49,200
that I talk a lot about on this podcast, but from a completely different perspective.

639
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:54,560
About the work, the workday, so tell me kind of, you know, what your week looked like when

640
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,640
they were keeping you guys together and then working you in the clubs as far as how many

641
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,440
hours a day you were working.

642
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:01,440
Yeah.

643
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:06,720
So typically we worked about 20, 21 hours a day.

644
00:43:06,720 --> 00:43:09,240
We were dropped off at like 10 a.m.

645
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:13,480
They picked us up at 6 a.m.

646
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:21,640
And we would drive about an hour back to the motel and they would feed us once a day.

647
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:31,560
So I went down from 125 pounds to 89 pounds in two weeks, which is unbelievable.

648
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,840
Somebody said to me at the presentation, that's not possible.

649
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:40,240
And so I sat down and I explained to them what my day was, 20 hours a day, dancing on

650
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:45,920
a stage, on a pool and doing all kinds of like poses.

651
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,840
Trust me, it's like being in a gym 20 hours a day.

652
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,280
Plus you don't get fed, right?

653
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:52,800
You get fed once a day.

654
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:57,400
Trust me, you will lose the pounds like crazy.

655
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:04,040
And not only that, like at once we get back to the motel, they would come in and they

656
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,920
would, you know, collect the money.

657
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,520
Take all of your money with all kinds of excuses.

658
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:16,200
And sometimes they would buy drugs from drug dealers.

659
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:21,400
But instead of paying for their drugs, they would say, hey, if you want a blonde, go to

660
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:22,400
room 50.

661
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,040
If you want a brunette, go to room 51.

662
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:30,720
So we were told that between six to, you know, or seven to like 10, we could get a knock

663
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:32,500
on the door.

664
00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:36,560
So sometimes I got knocks on the door and people would just walk in and I would just

665
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,360
have to do whatever they want me to do.

666
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,040
And then, but that's faster.

667
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:42,320
You let them go.

668
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,000
The faster you can get some sleep.

669
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:51,960
And then you take a shower and scrub off all that crap from you as you can and try to sleep.

670
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:56,040
And everything starts all over again within two hours.

671
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:01,720
And so after like a week of doing this, not sleeping, not eating, not knowing where you

672
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:04,120
are, you basically become like a zombie.

673
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:05,880
You have no nutrition.

674
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,640
You're exhausted and you are being brainwashed every single day.

675
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,880
They tell you how they're going to beat you.

676
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,240
They tell you what's going to happen to you if you escape.

677
00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:20,160
They're telling you horror stories like one girl escaped from another group.

678
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:27,400
And discretion advice here, by the way, one girl, this is escaped from another group and

679
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:33,280
they had to bring her back and they tied her up naked and they washed her body with boiling

680
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,400
oil for five minutes.

681
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,960
And now, now she can't go to work and now she's going to owe them every single day,

682
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:44,440
$500 while she can, while she has to stay back.

683
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,920
So stories like that, how they're going to beat us with the baseball bat.

684
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,040
I mean, the list just goes on.

685
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:56,600
And after two weeks, you just stop questioning everything and you just stop wanting to feel

686
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:02,960
any kind of emotions and you just shut down and you become a zombie and you go on autopilot

687
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,360
and you just do whatever you need to do to get through.

688
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,480
And that's basically as long as you can handle that.

689
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:14,400
And eventually, you know, you start rambling or not.

690
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:18,040
You may start doing drugs or more drugs to hand birth if you can.

691
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:19,520
I didn't do any drugs.

692
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:20,520
I just couldn't.

693
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,300
I wasn't raised like that, but there are girls who did.

694
00:46:24,300 --> 00:46:27,480
So you just do what you got to do to get through.

695
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:34,120
Yeah, well, the big area that really resonated with me, because like I said, I talk about

696
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,360
it a lot, is the sleep deprivation.

697
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,480
So we know that they use sleep deprivation for torture.

698
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:43,840
So that's another thing when people question, well, why did you believe it?

699
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:48,100
Well, after a few days of barely sleeping at all, you're not even thinking straight

700
00:46:48,100 --> 00:46:49,180
anymore anyway.

701
00:46:49,180 --> 00:46:53,160
And then you add, like you said, the one meal a day, which from what I read in the book

702
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:57,520
was a pretty shitty meal anyway, you know, it was a sandwich or whatever.

703
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:03,200
You know, of course, after a while, your any will that you did have is basically being

704
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:04,200
destroyed.

705
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:05,200
Pretty much.

706
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:06,200
Exactly.

707
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:07,960
You don't exist anymore.

708
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:14,400
And you start questioning your existence and you like you don't even realize how fast or

709
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:15,640
how you got here.

710
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,720
You don't even realize how bad it is until you do.

711
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:23,400
I remember after a couple of months, I was sitting in a window and I was looking outside

712
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:28,160
and there was a gas station by our motel and people were coming, families getting out,

713
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:29,600
getting ice cream.

714
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:37,320
And I'm like, how on earth is that possible that they can just come and go as they want?

715
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:43,320
But I can't even get out of my motel room and go get ice cream.

716
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:44,920
Like what happened?

717
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:46,220
What's wrong with this?

718
00:47:46,220 --> 00:47:48,960
Everything is so wrong here, right?

719
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,040
So yeah.

720
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:55,520
And then and then, you know, it's depending.

721
00:47:55,520 --> 00:48:00,160
Every individual is different how they live through this and how they decide, do they

722
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,200
decide to escape or not?

723
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,280
Or everybody has different stories.

724
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:08,960
I worked with over well over 300 survivors now.

725
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:10,520
Everybody have this different stories.

726
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:11,880
What was the breaking point?

727
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:12,880
How they got out?

728
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:13,880
Or were they just rescued?

729
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,440
And they were just ready by then.

730
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,680
It's so different for everyone.

731
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:24,280
I've started debating like, okay, I either try to escape and they kill me and that's

732
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,640
fine by me because I can't live like this anymore.

733
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:32,360
Or I'll just drop dead and die here because I can't move anymore.

734
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,520
Those were the two things that I was thinking.

735
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,600
So eventually I chose to escape.

736
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:37,600
Yeah.

737
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,440
Now again, I don't want to go too much into that because I think that's another great

738
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:45,520
part of the story and everyone listening needs to read it and hear it.

739
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:50,600
So what troubles me though, there's some really good things that came, you know, around that

740
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:52,920
time when you started helping other traffickers.

741
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,200
But what really troubles me and I want to make sure we highlight this because I, you

742
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:03,920
know, we're the first responders, you know, are listening is the police officers in, I

743
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,440
think it was the airport in Hungary, was that right?

744
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:07,680
The immigration police?

745
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:08,680
Yeah.

746
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,760
But if you're okay, tell me about that because that needs to be spoken.

747
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:13,480
I know that person was never caught.

748
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:15,600
So at least let's give it some airplay.

749
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:21,160
Well, in my story, they are the biggest monsters to be honest.

750
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:26,640
But the problem is that in every single survival story, things get so much worse once they

751
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:32,320
escape because they always end up walking into places where people don't believe in

752
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,040
them or just further exploit them.

753
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:41,760
So it is so important that when the survivors are ready to escape or being rescued, it should

754
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:48,120
be by the right, you know, organizations, the right police officers, everybody was properly

755
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:54,280
trained otherwise they just going to end up being in further problems, deep, deep troubles

756
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:55,280
like me.

757
00:49:55,280 --> 00:50:00,680
So when I went back to Hungary, unfortunately, I ended up being interviewed by two Hungarian

758
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:06,280
police officers who not only didn't believe me, but as soon as they heard that I was an

759
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:12,400
exotic dancer in Canada, they wanted to, they wanted to have their own private show.

760
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,960
So just, I just finished telling them what I lived through.

761
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,680
I'm like, you know, 80 pounds soaking wet.

762
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,280
I'm sick as a dog.

763
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:24,440
I have fever.

764
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:25,880
I can barely talk.

765
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:26,880
I'm about to collapse.

766
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,800
I feel like I should be in a hospital not here.

767
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:35,160
And I felt like finally here is they going to be, you know, helping me.

768
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:39,680
I'll be rescued out, you know, not what happened.

769
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:46,360
They hmm, I don't want to go into details, but let's just say that the few hours that

770
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:53,360
I spent in that room was probably worse than what I was put through in Canada by our clients

771
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:54,360
that I met.

772
00:50:54,360 --> 00:51:00,800
So after that, things got so much worse for me, right?

773
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,680
Because they didn't believe me, but then they did.

774
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:11,840
But so yeah, it's just, but again, I've never been the kind of person that if one cop does

775
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,080
wrong me, that means all cops are bad.

776
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:16,580
That's not how I work.

777
00:51:16,580 --> 00:51:19,600
If one nurse wrong me, that doesn't mean all nurses are bad.

778
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:21,920
I don't have it out for anyone.

779
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:22,920
It is what it is.

780
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:29,400
It happened and it is very unfortunate what those two men done and they never got caught.

781
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:30,400
But you know what?

782
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:35,360
I believe in God and I believe that I'm pretty sure they got what they deserved.

783
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:36,360
Yeah.

784
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:37,360
Yeah.

785
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,480
Well, I mean, I just, and I want to highlight that because we've, I've talked about this

786
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:44,040
on the podcast a lot, not just police, any profession.

787
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:49,160
My profession, firefighters, just had one, a guest recently where there was a firefighter

788
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,240
that was one of the leaders of the KKK, you know?

789
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:55,920
So that's a very, very bad firefighter, you know, from my profession.

790
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:02,040
But the police that are over here are getting tarred with the same brush and you know, most

791
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:07,360
of them I think are incredible, but there are those toxic officers that we have that

792
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,040
does destroy it for everyone else.

793
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:13,600
And what they did with the trust that they had and you know, wearing the badge that they

794
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,760
wore to you after what you've been through was disgusting.

795
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:21,400
And you know, I believe karma is normally a positive thing, but in this particular case,

796
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:25,440
I hope they did get what they, you know, what was coming to them because it was horrendous

797
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:31,720
and nauseating and any member of any first responder professional listening would be

798
00:52:31,720 --> 00:52:33,520
disgusted with what they did.

799
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:34,520
Yeah.

800
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:35,520
Yeah.

801
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:36,840
Thank you for saying that.

802
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:38,320
I appreciate that.

803
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:39,320
Yeah.

804
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:43,280
Well, so another interesting element, so you're at the other side, like I said, people can

805
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,080
read the book to see how that went.

806
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:53,200
And now you start becoming an advocate for the police in Toronto.

807
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:58,120
And what I thought was very different and another angle that we don't really hear of,

808
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,800
you know, we hear of women getting trafficked, you know.

809
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,080
Nick talked about some of the other things they use, getting them, you know, addicted

810
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:08,000
to drugs, even kidnapping their children, threatening to kill their kids if they don't

811
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,520
carry on the work.

812
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,240
But you talk about a group of men.

813
00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:16,320
So, tell me about their story.

814
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:17,320
Yeah.

815
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:22,440
So around 2009, I started speaking out and sharing my story with law enforcement across

816
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:27,840
Canada, particularly the federal police, what's called the Royal Manchurian Police, RCMP here

817
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,560
in Canada, which is kind of like your FBI, if you will.

818
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:35,000
And so I traveled the country with RCMP and shared my story.

819
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:40,600
And at one of the conference, an officer came up to me and said, I hear you and I understand

820
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:45,360
your story, but we have 13 men victim and they're Hungarian.

821
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:46,440
They don't speak English.

822
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,760
I was wondering if you can come and help us out.

823
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,080
So I and that's what I started doing.

824
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:57,600
I actually ended up working on front lines as well, helping with rescue operations.

825
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:58,860
So of course, I said yes.

826
00:53:58,860 --> 00:54:08,920
So I went to visit the 13 men and they actually were trafficked by a Hungarian operation.

827
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:14,360
There was, I think, 13 accused at the end of it.

828
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:21,000
And there was over 58 victims in like the past six years, but a lot of them couldn't

829
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:22,000
be found.

830
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,960
They tried, they got kicked out of Canada or whatever happened to them.

831
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:31,760
And, but their gig was, is that they went to small villages and particularly one, it's

832
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:45,560
called Papa in Hungary and they recruited very vulnerable, poor men, young and older.

833
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,600
And they promised them, you know, the world.

834
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:53,560
And they said, you know, come to Canada, we will offer you construction jobs.

835
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:57,000
And all you have to do is work here for three, four months and you can go home and buy your

836
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:04,480
mom house and buy, buy for pay off your mom's houses or take care of your family for the

837
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:05,480
rest of your life.

838
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:06,560
So on and so forth.

839
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:13,560
The problem was that the recruiters lived in, in, in a village as well.

840
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:17,440
And all of their hit men lived in a village as well.

841
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:24,980
So they recruited young men and, and, and older men who were literally their neighbors.

842
00:55:24,980 --> 00:55:32,160
So they can watch their families, they end day out while the victim was shipped out to

843
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:33,160
Canada.

844
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,880
And if the victim were wanting to leave, he had nowhere to go.

845
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:41,800
He can't go home now because they find him and his family going to be harmed.

846
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:45,360
It was a really bad setup for the victims.

847
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:53,440
Um, and anyways, ended up becoming Canada's largest human trafficking case to date.

848
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:58,080
It was so big that by the time we were going to go to court, they were going to have to

849
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:03,040
build a, a new courthouse for $1.2 million.

850
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:08,240
Every single media from Canada was at the sentencing.

851
00:56:08,240 --> 00:56:11,620
What really happened was that traffickers bought the victims over.

852
00:56:11,620 --> 00:56:12,620
They took their passport.

853
00:56:12,620 --> 00:56:16,160
The minute they landed, they took them to different houses.

854
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:17,920
They locked them in the basement.

855
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:21,280
They fed them with food that you wouldn't even give your pig.

856
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,120
I mean, green, more the crap.

857
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:30,640
Some of them were specifically house slaves to the, to the Kingpin.

858
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,200
So the coffee was too cold.

859
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:37,120
He gets beaten with the cable and the list goes on.

860
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:43,240
They worked on constructions from 6 AM to, you know, till the sun went down.

861
00:56:43,240 --> 00:56:50,040
Then they were taken to minivans across the province or state, however you want to call

862
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:51,760
it in Ontario.

863
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:56,380
And they were asked to steal checks, mail fraud.

864
00:56:56,380 --> 00:57:02,680
And so what happened was each victim, so the, the, the trafficker opened a bank account

865
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:04,120
for each victim.

866
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:06,220
He was the translator.

867
00:57:06,220 --> 00:57:08,640
So obviously the banks had no idea.

868
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:12,040
They just thought this is his cousin, his brother, whatever.

869
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:13,780
But he went to all different banks.

870
00:57:13,780 --> 00:57:16,920
So no one put the picture together.

871
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:23,280
So now he has about 25 bank cards with the PIN number.

872
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:28,920
And now he has thousands of dollars of corporate checks coming to him at the end of the day

873
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,920
from all companies that he's fraudulently cashing.

874
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:37,800
And now each of his victims are working in constructions and each victim can make up

875
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:42,720
to four grand and he has their identities as well.

876
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,360
So he made money from the construction.

877
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,280
He never paid his victims.

878
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,240
He made money from check and credit fraud.

879
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:57,080
He made money from buying trucks and stuff based on like the house slaves credit and

880
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:02,920
identity and sending them back to Hungary and ruining his credit completely and others

881
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:04,000
as well.

882
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:09,960
And on the top of it, he applied for every single individual that fair money.

883
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:16,320
So each and every victim was eligible for up to I think $1,200 welfare.

884
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:21,360
He made them go to the welfare office and say, hey, I'm diabetic.

885
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:26,600
I, you know, because the more symptoms you have, the more money you get for special whatever

886
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:28,000
needs.

887
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:33,320
So the guy ended up clearing just within six months when we looked at the financials, he

888
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:39,120
made about $1.6 million just in six months, but he was operating for over five years.

889
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:41,040
God, that's awful.

890
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:45,040
And you hit on the point, I want to make sure that we cover as well the passport.

891
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:50,560
So the other layer of vulnerability, not only threatening family like I did with these men,

892
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:53,320
is the immigration element too.

893
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,640
So they took everyone's passports away.

894
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:57,700
You're in this foreign country.

895
00:58:57,700 --> 00:59:04,860
Every time, you know, that there's any notion that one of you is starting to get some courage,

896
00:59:04,860 --> 00:59:09,580
they basically throw the you're going to get caught by immigration and go in Canadian jail

897
00:59:09,580 --> 00:59:11,000
card at you.

898
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:12,000
Absolutely.

899
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,560
But so here's a story about that old man.

900
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:17,900
He was 62 years old and he was the house slave.

901
00:59:17,900 --> 00:59:22,960
And his job was to clean the 10,000 square feet house every single day.

902
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:30,240
And but the slave owners kids were just such a punks and they just spit on him and beat

903
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:33,580
him and torture him and laughed at him.

904
00:59:33,580 --> 00:59:37,680
And every time he would finish vacuuming, the kids would start to come back and throw

905
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:44,680
the Cheerios out of the cereal box, just start throwing it on the ground and say, hey, hey,

906
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:47,880
if my father comes home and sees this mess, he's going to beat you again.

907
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:50,320
And so that's how he lived.

908
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:54,060
And he just after two and a half years, he couldn't take it anymore.

909
00:59:54,060 --> 00:59:59,520
He worked 20 hours a day, not just in the house, not just cooking, cleaning and doing

910
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,520
stuff, but he had to build a fence outside.

911
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:04,560
The neighbors thought he was the grandfather.

912
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,040
He didn't speak English.

913
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:10,440
He was given one cigarette a day.

914
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:14,960
Every so there was this was the main slaves house slave owner.

915
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:15,960
So he had a basement.

916
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:20,880
He had seven people in his basement and they were only allowed out when they went to work

917
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:24,240
and then they were locked back in.

918
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:29,440
So what what the slave owner did specifically with this guy, so they only feed them once

919
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:33,880
a day, but with crap like disgusting food, right?

920
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:42,000
And he would bring up this old man every night and have him sit at the table and watching

921
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:46,160
them have a feast and just watch them.

922
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:47,720
He wouldn't get a plate.

923
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:48,720
He wouldn't.

924
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:50,400
They wouldn't let him eat.

925
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:54,600
And every time he would try to reach for a piece of something, they like take your dirty

926
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:57,040
slave hands away from our food.

927
01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:58,200
You're not here to eat.

928
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,840
You're here to watch and when we are done, you need to clean it up.

929
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:03,760
So that's how he lived for two and a half years.

930
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:07,680
And after two and a half years, he's like, I can't do this anymore.

931
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:09,560
He saw an opportunity.

932
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:15,200
There was a broken bike that was tied to a post on his street.

933
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:18,920
And he saw that every morning when he had to walk the kids down to the bottom of the

934
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,360
street for the school bus.

935
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:23,640
So he walked back and one day he's like, that's it.

936
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:25,080
I'm getting on that bike.

937
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:30,440
Listen, the bike didn't even have air in the wheels.

938
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,380
It was just or the tires.

939
01:01:32,380 --> 01:01:34,400
It was broken.

940
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:40,120
He biked with that bike for two and a half hours down to the bottom of the mountain where

941
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:41,620
they lived.

942
01:01:41,620 --> 01:01:46,800
He waved down a police officer and a police officer checked him out.

943
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:51,960
He didn't understand what he was saying and he let him go.

944
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:57,520
So his only option was now to go back as fast as possible before they found out that he

945
01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:58,520
was missing.

946
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:01,680
And that was his first attempt to escape.

947
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:05,200
And after that, he tried two more times and he just stopped.

948
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:08,000
And then eventually he was rescued by RCMP.

949
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:09,000
Amazing.

950
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:14,040
And this is a Hungarian family in Canada?

951
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,480
This was a Hungarian family in Canada.

952
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:17,840
They're all gone now.

953
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:22,160
And this man specifically that I described, he was rescued.

954
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:25,960
They took a very good care of him for about three or four years.

955
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:32,320
And unfortunately, he had cancer and passed away two years ago alone in Canada without

956
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:33,320
family.

957
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:34,440
Oh my goodness.

958
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:36,480
So that's such an important picture to paint.

959
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:41,120
I'm so glad you told that story because this is, you know, in a suburb where I'm sure people

960
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:47,480
around that house were thinking they were an idyllic community and that kind of horrendous

961
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:51,920
torture was going on in their neighbor's house.

962
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:53,400
Exactly.

963
01:02:53,400 --> 01:03:01,040
And a lot of forced labor in America happens in suburbs or in very distinguished communities

964
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:03,800
and very elite areas.

965
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:07,760
You wouldn't know because, you know, people don't care anymore.

966
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:09,960
Mind your own business, you know.

967
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:13,920
That's the kind of attitude we have, especially now with COVID, just stay away, right?

968
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:14,920
Yeah.

969
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:15,920
Yeah.

970
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,880
People are just sitting around at the moment, they're all behind closed doors.

971
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:19,880
That's right.

972
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:20,880
Yeah.

973
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:21,880
All right.

974
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:22,880
Well, then I want to transition.

975
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:27,520
So, you know, you got out yourself, now you're helping the police in Toronto.

976
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:32,360
Obviously, you were able to stay in Canada, which is phenomenal.

977
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:35,840
What about your own journey?

978
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:40,560
How did you start to be able to rebuild mentally after what you went through?

979
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:44,680
Honestly, I do really appreciate that question.

980
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:50,040
And that is going to be my second book because it's so comprehensive.

981
01:03:50,040 --> 01:04:01,800
The short version is that I reached every possible book, material, self-help book.

982
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:09,360
I turned to God, I turned to music, art.

983
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:15,560
But I guess the only thing that I can say is that I just, I never give up on myself.

984
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:19,720
I've gone through some pretty dark times alone.

985
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:23,920
I never really had help.

986
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:28,440
I just try to get as many self-help books.

987
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:33,680
I try to keep myself as busy as possible.

988
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:40,680
And each year pass by, something new comes up to heal.

989
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:46,800
I mean, so much has happened in, you know, not just being trafficked, but after that,

990
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:48,760
and even my childhood.

991
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:55,800
So the last 20 years is nothing but just focusing on healing all the stuff that keeps coming

992
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:56,800
up.

993
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:58,840
I give you an example.

994
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:06,600
Just when I think I'm doing well, you know, and I think I'm in a relatively good place.

995
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:14,720
Like I lost my father five years ago and my mom, they passed on five months apart.

996
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:20,160
And I was not in Hungary to see them getting old because of everything that happened.

997
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:21,160
Right.

998
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:26,520
So it was really, really hard to go back and see them dying and realizing that I wasn't

999
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:27,520
here.

1000
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:31,840
And, you know, we never had the time to kind of figure things out.

1001
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:34,640
So it was very, very difficult.

1002
01:05:34,640 --> 01:05:38,600
And but then also with my dad, for example, he left when I was nine.

1003
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:43,080
So I never really had the chance to go back and rebuild that connection because I was

1004
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:45,640
trafficked and I had to stay in Canada for safety.

1005
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:46,640
Right.

1006
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:47,720
So there's a million layers.

1007
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:53,440
So a week ago, I'm sitting in a chair, we are talking with my husband and we're going

1008
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:57,720
through Spotify and we're looking through music from our childhood.

1009
01:05:57,720 --> 01:05:58,720
Right.

1010
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:06,240
And the song pops up that I haven't heard in 35 years.

1011
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,600
I have a very distinguished memory about my dad.

1012
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:14,760
We didn't have a long time together, obviously, but the times that we had together, I cherish

1013
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:15,760
them the most.

1014
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:16,760
I miss him.

1015
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:17,760
I always did.

1016
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:23,440
But there was this thing when he took me on a bike ride and we went to a lake and given

1017
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:27,680
that he was a gypsy, he just knew his way around nature.

1018
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:31,520
So we would get some food and put it on the fire.

1019
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:33,360
And we had a beautiful summer day.

1020
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:38,280
But while we were on a bike, the radio was playing and there was this song that he started

1021
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:40,840
singing along and he loved this song.

1022
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:43,240
And I never heard that song since then.

1023
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:47,720
And I'm sitting there looking at my Spotify and this song just pops up.

1024
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:50,080
I started bawling my eyes out.

1025
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:52,240
I couldn't breathe.

1026
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:57,280
And I was out for days because it wasn't just that I'm grieving my dad.

1027
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:01,360
It brought up the whole other that I didn't have time for with him.

1028
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:04,960
And you know, it's painful and so on, so forth.

1029
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:11,360
So I allowed myself to go down for two days, couldn't get out of bed, cried my face off.

1030
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,960
My husband just let me do my thing.

1031
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:19,360
And then I was done, you know, clean my face off, fix my crown and back to normal, you

1032
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:20,360
know.

1033
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:26,200
But so there really wasn't there is really no way of fully healing.

1034
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:28,480
It's an ongoing process.

1035
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:35,600
I have a lot of really good days, months, weeks, and then things happen like when was

1036
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:40,520
it six, seven months ago, I had to cross the border, go to the States to help out, deliver

1037
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:41,520
a fund.

1038
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:46,440
And because of my story and how I crossed the border the first time and how I got interrogated

1039
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:51,040
and I was so scared the very first time.

1040
01:07:51,040 --> 01:07:52,220
It just stays with me.

1041
01:07:52,220 --> 01:07:57,400
So every time I cross any borders, I get a horrible anxiety, but it's part of my job.

1042
01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:58,400
So here we go.

1043
01:07:58,400 --> 01:07:59,400
We go.

1044
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:05,960
I go through New Jersey and I don't have an American visa, but I'm not going to America

1045
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:06,960
to work.

1046
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:12,680
I'm donating my time, so I'm basically a volunteer, but it doesn't matter.

1047
01:08:12,680 --> 01:08:17,200
It gets pretty difficult or started to get pretty difficult to cross the border in the

1048
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:21,520
last few years or like a couple of years.

1049
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:26,120
So I'm going through New Jersey and I get pulled over and I get pulled over and I get

1050
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:29,640
pulled over to be interrogated.

1051
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:34,920
And honestly, I it took every bit out of me to keep it together.

1052
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:39,200
And I was like, I was in bits and pieces by the time they let me go.

1053
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:40,600
And of course, there was nothing wrong.

1054
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:41,840
I didn't do anything wrong.

1055
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:43,840
I'm not breaking the law.

1056
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:49,320
But, you know, two hours later, I had to, you know, go and help a victim.

1057
01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:51,960
So and, you know, off you go.

1058
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:55,120
Just you know, you don't have time to do this right now.

1059
01:08:55,120 --> 01:08:58,560
So it's a it's a breaking progress.

1060
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,120
That's all I have to say.

1061
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:05,600
So I think that's one of the misunderstandings of this kind of trauma is that you go through

1062
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:11,520
therapy and then you're quote unquote cured when obviously that trauma is going to stay

1063
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:12,520
with you regardless.

1064
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:17,800
But hopefully we're able to kind of move it back to the part of the mind where it's a

1065
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:21,080
memory rather than a constant trigger over and over again.

1066
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:26,560
So what are some of the the tools that you've been able to use as far as therapy, as far

1067
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:36,680
as outlets that have helped you when you have some of these flashbacks or anxiety attacks?

1068
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:47,480
I think it was more of materials, books and seminars that talks about the mindset and

1069
01:09:47,480 --> 01:09:52,600
the how powerful your mind is and your brain and your thoughts.

1070
01:09:52,600 --> 01:10:01,680
And if you can start controlling your emotions or thoughts, then that that that became my

1071
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:03,120
coping mechanism.

1072
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:08,680
So I also what was really helpful is learning those materials.

1073
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:12,120
I also became a counselor.

1074
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:18,440
So I actually done 350 hours of training on, you know, trauma.

1075
01:10:18,440 --> 01:10:25,160
So that was also very helpful for me to understand how my brain works, what trauma is, what happens

1076
01:10:25,160 --> 01:10:27,760
when I'm traumatized, how does it come out.

1077
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:33,440
I also done training on grief counseling, which is very similar to releasing trauma.

1078
01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:38,400
So I think understanding what happened and understanding how the brain works and the

1079
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:42,560
chemical reaction and all that helped me the most.

1080
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:48,320
And so what I really understood at the end of the day is that the triggers will come

1081
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:52,920
like it or not 10 years later, 20 years later, 30, 40 years later.

1082
01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:56,080
And it's going to feel like just like it happened yesterday.

1083
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:57,080
Right.

1084
01:10:57,080 --> 01:11:02,760
So it's not a matter of whether you can put it behind and just kind of make it feel like

1085
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:04,600
it's just a dream now.

1086
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:08,280
But it's a matter of how do you handle it when it happens to you.

1087
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:13,920
So I guess that was like I created my own coping mechanism, which is when it comes,

1088
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:16,040
I need to let it out.

1089
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:23,040
And if it comes when I am not in a place, but I able to let it out, I have to be able

1090
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:26,160
to control it, shove it aside for a minute.

1091
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:31,680
And then when I'm alone, I have to be able to kind of let it all out because it's really

1092
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:34,760
not good to keep it in.

1093
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:35,760
But you know what?

1094
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:36,880
I'm not going to lie to you.

1095
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:42,440
I have times when I could not control it and I was in an environment where I really shouldn't

1096
01:11:42,440 --> 01:11:44,240
have let it all out.

1097
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:45,840
But it is what it is.

1098
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:51,280
You know, I was doing a corporate event and we just got off the flight and I'm not even

1099
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:52,640
going to get into it.

1100
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:55,480
But I started crying so hard.

1101
01:11:55,480 --> 01:11:57,400
This was just two years ago.

1102
01:11:57,400 --> 01:12:00,400
I couldn't even see what I was going at the airport.

1103
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:03,200
Literally, I could not see what I was going.

1104
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:04,440
And I was with the company.

1105
01:12:04,440 --> 01:12:11,040
I was consulting with and I couldn't pull it together for like four or five hours and

1106
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:13,440
I couldn't explain what happened.

1107
01:12:13,440 --> 01:12:15,280
I could not explain it.

1108
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:21,160
And next day I just pretended like the crazy never happened.

1109
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:22,520
Nobody's done anything.

1110
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:26,520
I never heard back from them.

1111
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:29,160
But it's this that other layer as well.

1112
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:30,400
So you get people like yourself.

1113
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:35,320
I had another guy on Ishmael Bay who was a boy soldier in Sierra Leone, you know, so

1114
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:36,640
had a huge amount of trauma.

1115
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:38,020
His parents were murdered.

1116
01:12:38,020 --> 01:12:43,080
He was forced to fight for several years, made to be addicted to drugs.

1117
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:50,720
And he overcame that and is now a UNICEF ambassador for boy soldiers.

1118
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:54,800
But I think that's what people forget is that you've got that trauma but then layered on,

1119
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:56,560
you've got everyday life.

1120
01:12:56,560 --> 01:13:04,720
And I bizarrely myself had about three months ago, this inexplicable, I wouldn't even call

1121
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:09,320
it depression, just sadness where I would cry in the shower.

1122
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:10,520
I had no reason.

1123
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:11,520
I couldn't understand.

1124
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:19,320
I had no explanation other than some invisible pile of stress had just reached that final

1125
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:21,200
breaking point.

1126
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:22,880
But again, I just kind of observed it.

1127
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:23,960
I'm like, all right, this is going on.

1128
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:26,240
This is really weird but whatever.

1129
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:29,840
And allowed myself to go through that journey and then came out the other side.

1130
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:33,320
And I think that's an important thing that you said is sometimes you're not going to

1131
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:37,640
be in the right environment, but recognizing it and acknowledging it and definitely not

1132
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:42,920
having any shame about it is very, very important to then come out a little bit stronger once

1133
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:43,920
it's over.

1134
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:49,680
Bless your heart, first of all, I'm really sorry that you have those moments too.

1135
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:58,240
And anybody who's done any frontline work or had trauma in their life, they understand

1136
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:00,360
what post-traumatic is.

1137
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:05,280
And yes, I think and that's why I think it was important for me to understand what's

1138
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:07,000
happening to me.

1139
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:12,640
Because if I understand what's happening to me, then I can label it.

1140
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:14,800
Okay, this is what's happening right now.

1141
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:15,800
It's coming all out.

1142
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:21,000
So I just need to let it all out regardless and I know better days will come.

1143
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:25,760
So I don't get scared and I don't lie down and say, oh, when is this going to end?

1144
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:27,760
I understand what's happening behind it.

1145
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:33,560
So that's why I chose to actually read psychology books and trauma related books and sign up

1146
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:40,480
to a million seminars and classes so that I understand at least and at least I can be

1147
01:14:40,480 --> 01:14:42,720
my own nurse, if you will.

1148
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:48,920
Yeah, now another thing that I've noticed is a very strong common denominator with Ishmael,

1149
01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:55,060
with many of the men and women I've had on the show is when they were through their own

1150
01:14:55,060 --> 01:15:00,560
worst part and then they've started realizing that they were able to help other people,

1151
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:04,920
not only was that very powerful for the people they were helping, but it was very powerful

1152
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:06,600
in their own self-healing.

1153
01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:08,840
Was that something that you found too?

1154
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:09,840
Absolutely.

1155
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:15,360
So what I realized is the way I felt is that I'm going to give you a visual.

1156
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:22,760
So the minute I was trafficked, every single day the trafficker was reaching to my soul

1157
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:29,600
and my being and ripped out a piece of me and took it away.

1158
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:38,080
And every day they chipped away more and more of me until there was nothing left.

1159
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:43,800
And so like I couldn't go back to my family for Christmases.

1160
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:46,280
I couldn't open a bank account.

1161
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:49,080
I couldn't have my own house.

1162
01:15:49,080 --> 01:15:50,400
I couldn't have my own job.

1163
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:52,200
And the list just goes on and on, right?

1164
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:53,200
My parents died.

1165
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:55,960
I couldn't be there for them.

1166
01:15:55,960 --> 01:16:03,280
But every time when I was on front line and I was able to do something for the survival

1167
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:12,040
that made it right for them, it also was like a piece of puzzle that was missing and I could

1168
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:13,480
put it back.

1169
01:16:13,480 --> 01:16:18,560
So the very first case when you remember in my book, it was a girl that I had to drive

1170
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:25,800
home seven hours away from where it happened to her and take her home after Christmas,

1171
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:27,320
two weeks after Christmas.

1172
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:29,620
She was taken before Christmas.

1173
01:16:29,620 --> 01:16:32,200
She was held for almost two months.

1174
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:35,880
And the police rescued her and I was able to take her home.

1175
01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:41,040
And I was able to watch her walk through that door, be reunited with her family, which I

1176
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:44,760
never had the opportunity to do.

1177
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:50,960
And then they invited me in and her gifts from Christmas was still under the tree untouched.

1178
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:55,000
And I was able to see her reuniting with her family at Christmas.

1179
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:57,760
I never had the chance to do that.

1180
01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:02,960
So but when I walked out, I wasn't crying for me and say, oh, I never had a chance to

1181
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:03,960
do that.

1182
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:09,000
It was in a way, it was healing that piece of me that was missing.

1183
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:11,640
Yeah, that's beautiful.

1184
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:15,920
And I'm just about to interview a guy called Johann Hari and he's written two incredible

1185
01:17:15,920 --> 01:17:19,080
books that you probably love, Chasing the Scream.

1186
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:22,120
And I am completely blank on the second one.

1187
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:23,120
I'm reading it now.

1188
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:25,400
It'll come to me in a second.

1189
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:31,600
And he talks about lack of control and mental health.

1190
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:35,760
And it's funny because we had a conversation before and then I read this book and then

1191
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:38,760
now we're talking again.

1192
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:42,360
When you were trafficked, you had no control over your life whatsoever.

1193
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:46,740
And I think that one of the elements of that healing part when you're able to give back

1194
01:17:46,740 --> 01:17:48,160
is now your control.

1195
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:51,540
You're waking up every day and I am going to make someone's life better.

1196
01:17:51,540 --> 01:17:59,120
So I think that the vulnerability that having no control makes the other side of the spectrum

1197
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:04,320
is how empowering it is when you realize that you are now part of the solution and you are

1198
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:07,520
protecting other men and women from these predators.

1199
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:08,520
100%.

1200
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:14,580
And, you know, there's so many things come out of the fact that you were controlled,

1201
01:18:14,580 --> 01:18:18,480
like every aspect of your life was controlled.

1202
01:18:18,480 --> 01:18:20,840
And then you remember what that felt like.

1203
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:25,480
And so as a service provider, those are the things you think about right away.

1204
01:18:25,480 --> 01:18:27,280
And that's how you are able to give back.

1205
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:34,800
And that's why most of the survival led service provider agencies tend to be the most effective

1206
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:40,040
when they attempt to cause because they know right away how that survival feels.

1207
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:45,320
So like I was denied food, obviously I was starving all the time.

1208
01:18:45,320 --> 01:18:48,280
So now I am very picky about my food.

1209
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:49,840
It has to be like a big deal.

1210
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:52,440
I'm super picky about my food.

1211
01:18:52,440 --> 01:18:55,160
When we eat, how we eat, is it the right setting?

1212
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:56,480
Is it too loud in there?

1213
01:18:56,480 --> 01:18:57,960
Is it too bright?

1214
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:00,720
Like it's just, unfortunately it is what it is.

1215
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:05,960
Thank God my husband, you know, is putting up with it for 10 years.

1216
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:11,000
But comes with that, like when I walk into a situation, the first thing I will ask, are

1217
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:12,000
you hungry?

1218
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:15,000
And not only if you're hungry, I got a sandwich for you.

1219
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:16,920
So what would you like to eat?

1220
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:23,960
Because I know they probably haven't ate whatever they wanted in months or years, right?

1221
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:29,800
And the minute you do that, you are able to not only offer them to say, hey, I know how

1222
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:36,560
you feel, trust me, without saying that, because you shouldn't say that, but at least you're

1223
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:42,480
able to like break down immediately a wall and there's a million walls.

1224
01:19:42,480 --> 01:19:45,240
And then it's a victory in a way for you.

1225
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:51,360
It's like, okay, another one is not going to have to suffer for too much longer, you

1226
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:52,360
know?

1227
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:57,840
And another side of doing services for others, to me, I don't know if others feel that way,

1228
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:06,440
but it really is for me, it's about if I can help you today, that means maybe you don't

1229
01:20:06,440 --> 01:20:10,840
have to suffer for another 12 years like I did.

1230
01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:16,280
And the truth is, the survivors we ended up working with, you know, instead of taking

1231
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:23,440
them 12 years to write, to learn English and speak English and get education, they got

1232
01:20:23,440 --> 01:20:25,080
it in less than two years.

1233
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:31,660
Instead of waiting 12 years to get permanent status, they got it in three years, going

1234
01:20:31,660 --> 01:20:33,200
to school, so on and so forth.

1235
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:39,120
And those are the goals that I have that they could have a real life after this.

1236
01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:45,520
There is such a thing and you don't have to wait until you're 40 to feel like that you

1237
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:47,280
are worthy like me.

1238
01:20:47,280 --> 01:20:49,600
It took me 20 years to get to where I am.

1239
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:57,200
So if I see a victim who's 20 years old, everything that I do today is about making sure that

1240
01:20:57,200 --> 01:21:02,800
she doesn't have to wait till she's 40 to feel like that she's worthy and start her

1241
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:03,800
life.

1242
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:04,800
She can start her life at 25.

1243
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:06,280
Do you know what I mean?

1244
01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:11,080
Oh, absolutely, absolutely, and I think like you said with the food thing, I mean, as you

1245
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:15,880
mentioned in the book, something as small as that is the first act of kindness that

1246
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:17,140
they've seen.

1247
01:21:17,140 --> 01:21:21,240
And so I can imagine how if you're slowly able to build up the trust that yeah, you

1248
01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:25,640
can begin that healing process as soon as possible and get them on the path to not only

1249
01:21:25,640 --> 01:21:30,520
recover but then be resilient and really thrive the rest of their life.

1250
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:32,480
Right, yeah, yeah.

1251
01:21:32,480 --> 01:21:33,480
Right.

1252
01:21:33,480 --> 01:21:34,600
Well then, speaking of helping others.

1253
01:21:34,600 --> 01:21:39,760
So tell me about how you started Tamir's Cause then.

1254
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:47,160
So before Tamir's Cause, I had a charity called Walk With Me Canada Victim Services and I

1255
01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:51,320
ended up doing victim services, which we've been talking about a lot.

1256
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:56,040
So I've worked with police agencies, we break down doors, rescued victims.

1257
01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:57,520
I did that for almost six years.

1258
01:21:57,520 --> 01:22:00,720
I ended up working with a lot of police agencies.

1259
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:05,600
And so we started a victim service, like a safe house specifically for victims of human

1260
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:06,640
trafficking.

1261
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:08,320
And we got really, really good at it.

1262
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:13,880
And we started to have like the biggest case load in Canada at the time, which was great,

1263
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:16,880
sad, but great.

1264
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:20,400
Great as in like we were able to get to the victims.

1265
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:24,480
It's terrible that we had to do that kind of work, obviously.

1266
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:28,360
But what happened was we ran out of funds and nobody wanted to give us the money to

1267
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:29,840
be able to continue.

1268
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:35,520
And we were way before our time, way before human trafficking was a buzzword or people

1269
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:37,480
even knew what it was.

1270
01:22:37,480 --> 01:22:40,320
So it was really hard to raise funds for it.

1271
01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:44,800
So we closed and I was dead inside.

1272
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:46,440
It was just heartbreaking.

1273
01:22:46,440 --> 01:22:50,640
I worked so hard on that and everything be done.

1274
01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:52,920
But anyways, it's life, it is what it is.

1275
01:22:52,920 --> 01:22:54,900
But I wasn't ready to stop.

1276
01:22:54,900 --> 01:23:01,680
So I actually started a for-profit company because my dream was that in the next 10 years,

1277
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:10,800
I will create sustainable revenue stream models where we're going to make our own money.

1278
01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:12,720
We're going to employ survivors.

1279
01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:16,760
We're going to create schools where they can get certificates.

1280
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:22,920
We can offer them employment opportunities, training opportunities.

1281
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:26,160
We are also offering educational packages.

1282
01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:31,280
So we will continue doing all the work that we were doing except the emergency rescue

1283
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:32,960
operations.

1284
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:37,260
And instead of begging for funding, we will make our own money.

1285
01:23:37,260 --> 01:23:39,760
And that's exactly what we ended up doing.

1286
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:49,280
We started with $3,000 a year to I think last year, we were almost $300,000 company.

1287
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:53,520
And yeah, so it's been extremely successful.

1288
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:58,880
We have a lot of different departments.

1289
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:05,360
And one of them we started two years ago, Temeo's Market, which was a soap and bath

1290
01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:10,040
product, handmade organic locally sourced.

1291
01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:13,520
Survivors were making the products with professionals.

1292
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:16,320
And it was actually very successful.

1293
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:18,680
It was a two years pilot project.

1294
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:21,560
It was financially and in any other way successful.

1295
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:24,120
We had a trauma informed employment program.

1296
01:24:24,120 --> 01:24:27,200
We ended up employing up to nine survivors.

1297
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:32,040
We had our own production facility and showroom and created our own products.

1298
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:33,080
So it was great.

1299
01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:37,040
And then we were scooped up by an investor.

1300
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:44,520
And just this year, April, we were going to roll our products out in Canada and North

1301
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:46,880
America in large retail stores.

1302
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:52,280
These were going to be like high end spa products.

1303
01:24:52,280 --> 01:24:55,440
So anyways, COVID happened.

1304
01:24:55,440 --> 01:24:57,520
So everything is on hold right now.

1305
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:03,160
But when COVID is back and when people are more comfortable spending money and not just

1306
01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:08,080
on food, but like maybe even luxury items, we're going to roll that back out.

1307
01:25:08,080 --> 01:25:10,200
So that's just one of the things.

1308
01:25:10,200 --> 01:25:16,100
The other side of the company is a consulting agency and the educational firm.

1309
01:25:16,100 --> 01:25:23,920
So TMEAS Cause is partnering up with various large financial sectors, private sectors,

1310
01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:28,600
the hospitality hotels and other organizations, tech companies.

1311
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:34,120
And what we do is we offer them consulting and education on human trafficking.

1312
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:41,120
We assist software companies, money laundering software companies, how to create a great

1313
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:45,320
software and find human trafficking through the banking system.

1314
01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:52,960
We also assist the United Nations and we also assist financial sectors on a global level.

1315
01:25:52,960 --> 01:26:01,840
And just most recently, we asked to partner with the financial company who is offering

1316
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:05,840
bank accounts around the world for survivors of human trafficking.

1317
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:08,800
So we are going to take up on that.

1318
01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:15,280
But what I'm very excited about is our partnership with an American organization called Deliverance

1319
01:26:15,280 --> 01:26:16,280
Fund.

1320
01:26:16,280 --> 01:26:19,440
Deliverance Fund is made out of former CIA agents.

1321
01:26:19,440 --> 01:26:27,440
I believe you had them on your show, former CIA, NSA and Marines who came together in

1322
01:26:27,440 --> 01:26:31,920
the United States and started an organization to hunt traffickers.

1323
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:39,240
So about two years ago or three years ago, I met the founder in Albuquerque, New Mexico,

1324
01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:44,600
Nick McClemmie, and we just happened to have a meeting that day to see if we can work together

1325
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:46,080
down the road.

1326
01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:51,280
And that night he asked me if I'm free by any chance because they had a victim and their

1327
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:53,880
victim advocate was out of town.

1328
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:55,320
So I ended up staying.

1329
01:26:55,320 --> 01:26:59,840
I was supposed to fly out that day and I ended up staying to take care of the victim for

1330
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:02,600
five days with Deliver Fund.

1331
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:05,440
And that was that the rest is history.

1332
01:27:05,440 --> 01:27:08,220
We became family since then.

1333
01:27:08,220 --> 01:27:13,400
So I also work with Deliver Fund training law enforcement in the States and helping

1334
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:18,360
the analytic team and a whole bunch of other stuff.

1335
01:27:18,360 --> 01:27:25,640
So we are very busy, but our core mission is always every single mission we take up

1336
01:27:25,640 --> 01:27:27,160
on is two things.

1337
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:31,160
One, can we make money on it and put it back into the cause?

1338
01:27:31,160 --> 01:27:38,880
Or two, will this help eradicate human trafficking and help us to make us go out of business

1339
01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:40,200
in the next 10 years?

1340
01:27:40,200 --> 01:27:45,640
And if the answer is yes to both, then we are game basically.

1341
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:46,640
That's amazing.

1342
01:27:46,640 --> 01:27:51,000
Well, firstly on Deliver Fund, yes, I had Nick McKinley and also Greg Jackson, who does

1343
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:53,520
a lot of work with them too.

1344
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:55,160
And what they're doing is incredible.

1345
01:27:55,160 --> 01:28:01,480
And as you said, the software side, the IT, helping support law enforcement agencies in

1346
01:28:01,480 --> 01:28:04,760
areas so they can actually make the arrests.

1347
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:08,320
So such an incredible organization themselves.

1348
01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:12,520
But it's very interesting what you said about the fundraising, because I just released an

1349
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:17,320
interview with a gentleman here where I live called Ryan Chamberlain, and he talks about

1350
01:28:17,320 --> 01:28:19,120
social business.

1351
01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:26,120
So you get the nonprofits, and they're always relying on donations to keep the doors open.

1352
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:28,240
And then you have regular businesses.

1353
01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:31,900
So he uses Tom's Shoes as an example.

1354
01:28:31,900 --> 01:28:36,440
But getting a business where every time you buy, let's say, the soap, then you get the

1355
01:28:36,440 --> 01:28:40,440
soap, this company makes a profit, but every single purchase, a dollar will go towards

1356
01:28:40,440 --> 01:28:42,920
to Mayor's Cause or whatever it is.

1357
01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:47,000
I think that's the future of a lot of fundraising for these kind of organizations, that you

1358
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:53,480
should create your own business that supports your cause, but also is making a profit.

1359
01:28:53,480 --> 01:28:57,560
So you're not relying on people that some years may be extremely generous.

1360
01:28:57,560 --> 01:29:01,880
And then sometimes like this, the money dries up.

1361
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:04,520
And I think you're right.

1362
01:29:04,520 --> 01:29:11,280
When I started researching what kind of company I want, the frame social enterprise was keep

1363
01:29:11,280 --> 01:29:12,440
coming up.

1364
01:29:12,440 --> 01:29:15,760
So my company is actually registered as Tomiak's Cause Inc.

1365
01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:17,800
Social enterprise, because that's what we do.

1366
01:29:17,800 --> 01:29:19,200
We make money.

1367
01:29:19,200 --> 01:29:24,400
And most of it, over 80% of it goes right back into the cause.

1368
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:31,360
And I have not applied for a grant or raised funds in six years, not a dollar.

1369
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:36,840
Now we did have some small sponsorships, but those sponsorships actually went towards directly

1370
01:29:36,840 --> 01:29:38,440
to victim care.

1371
01:29:38,440 --> 01:29:44,200
But for today's funds for me to operate, no, we paid for everything and we gave back as

1372
01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:45,200
well.

1373
01:29:45,200 --> 01:29:46,240
So that's one.

1374
01:29:46,240 --> 01:29:52,880
And the other side that I wanted to tell you is that I think it's psychological.

1375
01:29:52,880 --> 01:29:58,400
And this is what I was suffering, like I was rustling with this when I had to close walk

1376
01:29:58,400 --> 01:29:59,400
with me.

1377
01:29:59,400 --> 01:30:06,200
Because for six years, here I am, this strong service provider who survives everything.

1378
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:11,460
And I'm supposed to be a role model to the next generation of survivals and show them

1379
01:30:11,460 --> 01:30:12,760
that you can.

1380
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:20,760
While every single month I have to go to some rooms of people and literally cry and beg

1381
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:22,640
for money.

1382
01:30:22,640 --> 01:30:25,220
And it wasn't healthy for me.

1383
01:30:25,220 --> 01:30:28,040
It's not a healthy model, I don't think.

1384
01:30:28,040 --> 01:30:34,920
And at the end of the day, I still felt like that I'm getting a handout and I have to beg

1385
01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:37,320
for my victims, right?

1386
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:40,080
So it wasn't healthy for me personally.

1387
01:30:40,080 --> 01:30:42,360
I didn't feel good about myself.

1388
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:45,840
I did not feel good about going and asking for money.

1389
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:50,680
So when we actually closed walk with me and the story how we closed is actually is in

1390
01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:51,680
the book.

1391
01:30:51,680 --> 01:30:57,840
I don't know if you remember, but we got denied by the last organization that we went to beg

1392
01:30:57,840 --> 01:30:59,440
for money.

1393
01:30:59,440 --> 01:31:04,080
And the lady it was actually a large company and a VP was on her phone the whole time.

1394
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:08,840
And we just finished telling her how the last victim was 12 years old just from around the

1395
01:31:08,840 --> 01:31:09,840
corner.

1396
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:12,580
And we don't have enough services to provide her.

1397
01:31:12,580 --> 01:31:14,880
She didn't even look up from her phone until the end.

1398
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:19,760
And she said, Yeah, I'm sorry, we don't have this kind of money right now.

1399
01:31:19,760 --> 01:31:21,200
But you know what?

1400
01:31:21,200 --> 01:31:26,600
On your way out, you can talk to the receptionist and you're welcome to use our printer anytime.

1401
01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:27,600
Okay?

1402
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:28,600
Oh, my goodness.

1403
01:31:28,600 --> 01:31:36,040
I cry if I get frustrated when I punch the wall.

1404
01:31:36,040 --> 01:31:38,720
And so I couldn't punch anything.

1405
01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:44,840
I haven't punched anything in a long time, probably 18 years.

1406
01:31:44,840 --> 01:31:49,320
But I was surrounded with very professional people, the mayor and so on and so forth.

1407
01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:51,920
So I didn't want to punch anything or anyone.

1408
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:53,600
But I started crying.

1409
01:31:53,600 --> 01:31:56,840
And a man looked at me and she goes, I cannot believe that just happened.

1410
01:31:56,840 --> 01:32:05,080
And I said, I'm going to promise you mayor right now, that in 10 years, I will be a multimillionaire.

1411
01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:10,360
And I will never, ever ask for money ever again.

1412
01:32:10,360 --> 01:32:11,960
And that was about six years ago.

1413
01:32:11,960 --> 01:32:14,900
And that was the last time I asked for money.

1414
01:32:14,900 --> 01:32:16,400
And I will never do it again.

1415
01:32:16,400 --> 01:32:22,640
I am not a millionaire yet, but I still have about 40 years to get there.

1416
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:26,560
I would have said the same thing, but I would have also punched the printer on my way out.

1417
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:29,760
But you know what?

1418
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:31,160
I can use your printer.

1419
01:32:31,160 --> 01:32:34,400
So you want me to feed the printers to my victims?

1420
01:32:34,400 --> 01:32:36,400
Yeah, exactly.

1421
01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:41,240
And that's what the next generation means to you, that they can use the printer.

1422
01:32:41,240 --> 01:32:42,240
Are you kidding me?

1423
01:32:42,240 --> 01:32:48,120
It was such a slap in the face, not just to me, but to the entire victim generation and

1424
01:32:48,120 --> 01:32:49,120
population.

1425
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:51,040
It's like, are you kidding me?

1426
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:52,040
Unbelievable.

1427
01:32:52,040 --> 01:32:59,320
But anyway, we closed a very successful year last year.

1428
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:03,440
And of course, COVID is not helping right now, but it is what it is.

1429
01:33:03,440 --> 01:33:06,080
We will get through and we will keep on going.

1430
01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:07,080
Absolutely.

1431
01:33:07,080 --> 01:33:08,080
Absolutely.

1432
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:11,200
And this is going to go out right, I think, when we're starting to emerge from the other

1433
01:33:11,200 --> 01:33:12,200
side.

1434
01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:15,360
So I'm hoping that when people have kind of had some time on their own and really think

1435
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:21,920
about priorities, that they will be more wise with their spending too, and hopefully be more

1436
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:25,520
conscious about the companies that they use their dollars on.

1437
01:33:25,520 --> 01:33:30,960
So if, for example, they're buying products that are also supporting the fight against

1438
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:36,760
sex trafficking and supporting the victims of that, then why not buy that instead of

1439
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:39,840
the company you used to use that doesn't do anything with their money?

1440
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:40,840
Right.

1441
01:33:40,840 --> 01:33:46,840
I mean, one of the things that they started to do here in Canada for us, like police officers,

1442
01:33:46,840 --> 01:33:51,960
they started to, they went to their accountants, like at the police station, and they said,

1443
01:33:51,960 --> 01:33:57,280
our entire unit would like to redirect our money that we usually donate to whatever charity

1444
01:33:57,280 --> 01:33:58,960
to walk with me.

1445
01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:04,200
So next thing you know, we have 2000 police officers donating us portion of their salaries,

1446
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:06,520
which was unbelievable.

1447
01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:12,760
And so if there is law enforcement out there who's listening and you're already donating

1448
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:18,960
some money, just please look in to see if you can donate to organizations such as Deliver

1449
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:24,840
Fund, who basically is working for and with law enforcement for the last five years and

1450
01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:27,760
trying to put the traffickers on silver platter.

1451
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:33,240
So there's a million kind of, I mean, I feel differently about those donations because

1452
01:34:33,240 --> 01:34:35,400
it's not like you're not begging.

1453
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:37,600
It's like, hey, we are working together.

1454
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:39,040
We are on the same team.

1455
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:44,080
If you're already donating and you feel like that, you know, you want to shift or change,

1456
01:34:44,080 --> 01:34:49,800
like maybe this is, and trust me, every dollar counts, like, and they are so respectful of

1457
01:34:49,800 --> 01:34:51,760
it, every single donation.

1458
01:34:51,760 --> 01:34:58,640
I work on a team so I know how the money goes a long way and it does not go to like high

1459
01:34:58,640 --> 01:34:59,640
end salaries.

1460
01:34:59,640 --> 01:35:02,480
It really is going to the people on the front lines.

1461
01:35:02,480 --> 01:35:03,480
Yeah.

1462
01:35:03,480 --> 01:35:04,480
Yeah.

1463
01:35:04,480 --> 01:35:08,000
And I see that there's a friend of mine, Ryan Parrott, who has Sons of the Flag, which helps

1464
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:11,080
on the mental health side, but specifically burns.

1465
01:35:11,080 --> 01:35:15,600
So whether it's military veterans or first responders, they get the best care so that

1466
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:20,000
they don't just get the burn barely taken care of, but they actually get the plastic

1467
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:26,120
surgery so they can get as close to what they looked like before and as mobile as possible

1468
01:35:26,120 --> 01:35:27,120
as well.

1469
01:35:27,120 --> 01:35:29,480
But obviously that's a very expensive thing too.

1470
01:35:29,480 --> 01:35:34,520
But I think what you observed is something that I hear so many of these men and women

1471
01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:35,520
talk about.

1472
01:35:35,520 --> 01:35:42,080
The problem is Ryan and you and Nick are so passionate about what you do because you get

1473
01:35:42,080 --> 01:35:43,080
it.

1474
01:35:43,080 --> 01:35:44,080
You understand the why.

1475
01:35:44,080 --> 01:35:47,680
You've seen the traffickers, I mean, the victims of trafficking in front of you and

1476
01:35:47,680 --> 01:35:51,320
Ryan's seen these burn injured men and women in front of him.

1477
01:35:51,320 --> 01:35:54,080
So they know how hard they have to fight.

1478
01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:58,160
And the problem is you go into a boardroom full of people that are so disconnected, many

1479
01:35:58,160 --> 01:35:59,520
of whom just don't care.

1480
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:01,200
You're just a number.

1481
01:36:01,200 --> 01:36:03,920
Which part of my budget are you going to try and take from today?

1482
01:36:03,920 --> 01:36:10,400
So to be able to turn that fire and that passion into a business where you generate your own

1483
01:36:10,400 --> 01:36:12,040
funds I think is incredible.

1484
01:36:12,040 --> 01:36:15,280
And then letting the public say, vote with your dollar.

1485
01:36:15,280 --> 01:36:23,240
This is an organic, natural beauty line that when you buy the soap, you're actually making

1486
01:36:23,240 --> 01:36:25,200
a difference to the world too.

1487
01:36:25,200 --> 01:36:29,320
I honestly think that's the answer to so many nonprofits and I'm really excited to see how

1488
01:36:29,320 --> 01:36:31,040
this whole concept takes off.

1489
01:36:31,040 --> 01:36:36,840
I thank you so much for understanding and appreciating the concept.

1490
01:36:36,840 --> 01:36:38,520
I really do appreciate that.

1491
01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:42,840
That's half of the battle usually to make people understand what the concept behind

1492
01:36:42,840 --> 01:36:43,840
social enterprise.

1493
01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:44,840
So thank you.

1494
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:46,640
Thank you so much for validating that.

1495
01:36:46,640 --> 01:36:47,640
No problem.

1496
01:36:47,640 --> 01:36:48,640
Well, I think it's incredible.

1497
01:36:48,640 --> 01:36:53,360
So, well, I want to transition to some closing questions so I can let you go.

1498
01:36:53,360 --> 01:36:56,360
Before I talk about other people's books, so let's talk about your book.

1499
01:36:56,360 --> 01:36:58,400
So the book is called Out of the Shadows.

1500
01:36:58,400 --> 01:37:02,680
Where can people find the audiobook and the actual print version?

1501
01:37:02,680 --> 01:37:05,560
Yeah, so you can get it on Amazon.

1502
01:37:05,560 --> 01:37:10,320
I do understand that it's in some bookstores in the United States too and it was in bookstores

1503
01:37:10,320 --> 01:37:13,280
when the book came out.

1504
01:37:13,280 --> 01:37:14,400
Not sure if it's there now.

1505
01:37:14,400 --> 01:37:18,160
So your best bet would be Amazon for sure.

1506
01:37:18,160 --> 01:37:19,600
And same with the audiobook.

1507
01:37:19,600 --> 01:37:20,760
You can get it online.

1508
01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:21,760
Just type it in.

1509
01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:26,200
Out of the Shadows by Temei and Agi audiobook and you'll find it.

1510
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:30,080
Yeah, and I actually listened to the audiobook and the narrator that you chose is very good,

1511
01:37:30,080 --> 01:37:31,080
I thought.

1512
01:37:31,080 --> 01:37:33,720
Thank you so much.

1513
01:37:33,720 --> 01:37:37,920
So then the first closing questions then, is there a book written by someone else that

1514
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:38,920
you love to recommend?

1515
01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:42,480
It can be about what we discussed today or something completely different.

1516
01:37:42,480 --> 01:37:46,880
Yeah, it's a little out there though.

1517
01:37:46,880 --> 01:37:47,880
That's okay.

1518
01:37:47,880 --> 01:37:53,520
Two books that actually started me on my journey.

1519
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:57,040
One of them was, well actually there's several books.

1520
01:37:57,040 --> 01:37:58,880
You know what?

1521
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:01,400
I wish I remembered the very first one.

1522
01:38:01,400 --> 01:38:03,320
I don't know if I'm going to find it.

1523
01:38:03,320 --> 01:38:12,000
It was a book that was released in 1957 or something and I had it with me for like years

1524
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:13,000
and years.

1525
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:19,040
It's something with the mosaic of the mind but I can't honestly tell you for sure.

1526
01:38:19,040 --> 01:38:27,880
Okay, so the first book that really got my attention and I am a believer of God and I

1527
01:38:27,880 --> 01:38:31,200
grew up Catholic slash Christian, right?

1528
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:35,760
Well, I didn't, I wasn't raised Catholic but I grew up in a Catholic country.

1529
01:38:35,760 --> 01:38:43,320
So for the most part of my life I was following the Christian rules, right?

1530
01:38:43,320 --> 01:38:49,920
So this book is a little bit outside of that but it's called Laws of Attraction by Esther

1531
01:38:49,920 --> 01:38:51,640
Hicks.

1532
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:57,400
And it was really just like the second version of like the video called Secret and the movie

1533
01:38:57,400 --> 01:38:59,520
called The Secret.

1534
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:04,360
When it came out it's about understanding how your mind works and how you attract stuff

1535
01:39:04,360 --> 01:39:05,360
and whatever.

1536
01:39:05,360 --> 01:39:12,200
I don't fully agree with the entire mindset of how you attract everything to yourself.

1537
01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:13,960
I think there's a lot more to it.

1538
01:39:13,960 --> 01:39:21,800
But what my top takeaway was from Laws of Attraction and The Secret is there are certain

1539
01:39:21,800 --> 01:39:31,000
elements to your mindset that you are responsible for and you have every capability to retrain

1540
01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:37,040
your mind to start thinking positive and get out of the victimhood.

1541
01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:44,080
So that was the most favorite part of those books and that literally kind of set me on

1542
01:39:44,080 --> 01:39:50,720
this whole new journey where I wanted to know more about how much I'm responsible for, how

1543
01:39:50,720 --> 01:39:55,960
much is my past really responsible for my childhood and all that, how much generational

1544
01:39:55,960 --> 01:39:59,960
trauma I'm responsible for and how can I heal them.

1545
01:39:59,960 --> 01:40:02,760
So that was very interesting.

1546
01:40:02,760 --> 01:40:11,240
And then later on what changed my mindset about money and how much I worked and how

1547
01:40:11,240 --> 01:40:17,160
much money will I ever be able to make and kind of get out of poverty for real and that

1548
01:40:17,160 --> 01:40:23,480
helped me to stop being further exploited financially and emotionally was Secrets of

1549
01:40:23,480 --> 01:40:27,840
a Millionaire Mind and the writer was T. Harv Eker.

1550
01:40:27,840 --> 01:40:28,840
Yeah.

1551
01:40:28,840 --> 01:40:29,840
T. Harv Eker.

1552
01:40:29,840 --> 01:40:35,120
That was absolutely life-changing, that book.

1553
01:40:35,120 --> 01:40:36,120
Fantastic.

1554
01:40:36,120 --> 01:40:37,560
All right.

1555
01:40:37,560 --> 01:40:39,120
So then what about a movie?

1556
01:40:39,120 --> 01:40:41,440
Are there any movies that you love?

1557
01:40:41,440 --> 01:40:45,920
Yeah, it doesn't match with who I am though.

1558
01:40:45,920 --> 01:40:49,240
I'm almost embarrassed by it.

1559
01:40:49,240 --> 01:40:57,960
There are movies that I absolutely love that has nothing to do with my emotional spiritual

1560
01:40:57,960 --> 01:40:59,440
journey.

1561
01:40:59,440 --> 01:41:01,520
That's fine.

1562
01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:02,520
Okay.

1563
01:41:02,520 --> 01:41:08,000
Well, I do have a favorite movie that has absolutely nothing to do with my spiritual

1564
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:12,360
journey or who I am and if you knew me, you would be like, huh?

1565
01:41:12,360 --> 01:41:14,040
How is that movie makes any sense?

1566
01:41:14,040 --> 01:41:23,440
So it's The Heat with Al Pacino, Robert De Niro and Vaughn Kilmer and a couple of others.

1567
01:41:23,440 --> 01:41:27,740
I don't know if you ever seen it, but I think that is the most amazing movie that has ever

1568
01:41:27,740 --> 01:41:30,240
been made in the history of the world.

1569
01:41:30,240 --> 01:41:31,760
The acting is outstanding.

1570
01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:37,840
It's about a bank robber and a cop and how they kind of chase each other through the

1571
01:41:37,840 --> 01:41:43,800
whole movie, but it's so intellectual and there is a shootout scene that's happening

1572
01:41:43,800 --> 01:41:46,040
in LA and it's just so real.

1573
01:41:46,040 --> 01:41:47,640
The guns are real.

1574
01:41:47,640 --> 01:41:49,740
It's such an action movie.

1575
01:41:49,740 --> 01:41:53,960
No woman that I ever heard or met who would like that movie.

1576
01:41:53,960 --> 01:41:57,080
I think it was totally made for men, but I love it.

1577
01:41:57,080 --> 01:41:58,680
I think it's my thing.

1578
01:41:58,680 --> 01:42:00,800
So there you have it.

1579
01:42:00,800 --> 01:42:02,440
Guns, robbery, cops.

1580
01:42:02,440 --> 01:42:04,480
I mean, what can possibly go wrong?

1581
01:42:04,480 --> 01:42:08,680
You know, now, you know, I've got to go back through my notes because I had that recommended

1582
01:42:08,680 --> 01:42:12,400
a little while ago and I could have sworn it was a woman that recommended it too.

1583
01:42:12,400 --> 01:42:16,200
So I'm going to have, I'll get back to you on that, but I think it was a woman that recommended

1584
01:42:16,200 --> 01:42:17,200
it.

1585
01:42:17,200 --> 01:42:18,200
Are you serious?

1586
01:42:18,200 --> 01:42:19,200
I think so.

1587
01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:20,200
Wow.

1588
01:42:20,200 --> 01:42:21,200
Then okay.

1589
01:42:21,200 --> 01:42:22,200
That's awesome.

1590
01:42:22,200 --> 01:42:29,640
That, that is honestly the best movie ever made and I'll tell you why they give you a

1591
01:42:29,640 --> 01:42:34,800
real background on the cop and show the world he lives in, right?

1592
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:38,240
On the streets, always out chasing, chasing the bad guys.

1593
01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:39,240
Right?

1594
01:42:39,240 --> 01:42:44,920
And here he is meeting this bad guy who has values and morals and all he's bad about is

1595
01:42:44,920 --> 01:42:48,320
that he does bank robberies, which is bad and it's illegal.

1596
01:42:48,320 --> 01:42:49,320
And I get it.

1597
01:42:49,320 --> 01:42:51,240
Terrible, terrible, whatever.

1598
01:42:51,240 --> 01:42:56,640
But he never kills no one and he loves art and he has a beautiful condo and he's clean

1599
01:42:56,640 --> 01:43:00,120
shaved and very intelligent.

1600
01:43:00,120 --> 01:43:01,400
And so they chase each other.

1601
01:43:01,400 --> 01:43:09,040
He is the best bank robber and, and Al Pacino is the best cop that is.

1602
01:43:09,040 --> 01:43:13,540
And the whole movie is about learning about each other.

1603
01:43:13,540 --> 01:43:18,160
And then there's this big shootout scene and I'm not going to give it away at the end,

1604
01:43:18,160 --> 01:43:25,640
but there's one scene where they finally meet and they end up just sitting down and talking.

1605
01:43:25,640 --> 01:43:31,000
And I can't even, I can't even repeat the conversation, but a, that's the best acting

1606
01:43:31,000 --> 01:43:34,000
that I have seen yet to see.

1607
01:43:34,000 --> 01:43:40,680
I have never seen better acting or scenes since then, since that movie ever.

1608
01:43:40,680 --> 01:43:46,160
And some came close, but that is literally the best acting.

1609
01:43:46,160 --> 01:43:51,560
But it's also about how the two sides are actually capable of sitting down and having

1610
01:43:51,560 --> 01:43:57,760
a conversation and how much they learn from each other and how much they realize that

1611
01:43:57,760 --> 01:44:05,720
they have the same past and they're living the same life just on a different side.

1612
01:44:05,720 --> 01:44:12,080
So in a way, that movie was actually very helpful to me when I started working in human

1613
01:44:12,080 --> 01:44:18,680
trafficking and I started to see human traffickers as well, because that movie kind of always

1614
01:44:18,680 --> 01:44:22,840
reminded me of like, there's two sides to every story.

1615
01:44:22,840 --> 01:44:27,640
And while I want to just lock away all the traffickers, believe me, but I also want to

1616
01:44:27,640 --> 01:44:29,720
know where did it start?

1617
01:44:29,720 --> 01:44:30,720
When did it start?

1618
01:44:30,720 --> 01:44:35,440
Which is why I had that interview with the pimp, if you recall it, right?

1619
01:44:35,440 --> 01:44:44,200
So, but that movie was a huge, it really influenced me on to this day, I always want to see the

1620
01:44:44,200 --> 01:44:45,680
other side of the story.

1621
01:44:45,680 --> 01:44:48,200
Yeah, I saw it a long, long time ago.

1622
01:44:48,200 --> 01:44:51,440
So between whoever it was that recommended it recently and yourself, I'm going to have

1623
01:44:51,440 --> 01:44:55,120
to put it back on the top of my list because I remember it being phenomenal.

1624
01:44:55,120 --> 01:45:00,440
I think I remember the gun battle being like one solid sequence through the whole thing

1625
01:45:00,440 --> 01:45:02,200
as well, if my memory serves me right.

1626
01:45:02,200 --> 01:45:06,680
But what you said about reverse engineering, that's a lot of what I try and do with this

1627
01:45:06,680 --> 01:45:12,240
podcast too, is perfect example is the drug crisis that we're in now.

1628
01:45:12,240 --> 01:45:16,480
When you reverse engineer how drugs became illegal, when you reverse engineer the mental

1629
01:45:16,480 --> 01:45:21,400
ill health that causes addiction, that's the root of the problem, not the addict or the,

1630
01:45:21,400 --> 01:45:23,420
you know, that you said the trafficker even.

1631
01:45:23,420 --> 01:45:28,880
How did that little cute giggling toddler, does one day become a human being that would

1632
01:45:28,880 --> 01:45:31,040
actually do that to other people?

1633
01:45:31,040 --> 01:45:33,400
Right, right, exactly.

1634
01:45:33,400 --> 01:45:35,320
I love your thought process.

1635
01:45:35,320 --> 01:45:37,800
Well, good, thank you.

1636
01:45:37,800 --> 01:45:42,280
Yeah, I mean, that's the goal for me is that we're not going to fix it putting band-aids

1637
01:45:42,280 --> 01:45:44,160
on boo-boos, you know what I mean?

1638
01:45:44,160 --> 01:45:45,900
We have to get to the actual root of it.

1639
01:45:45,900 --> 01:45:50,560
So this is why the conversation that I'm having with you now is so important because there

1640
01:45:50,560 --> 01:45:55,920
are going to be men and women hopefully listening to this, that either as a responder will notice

1641
01:45:55,920 --> 01:46:01,360
something that might alert them to stopping trafficking or God forbid, even be a warning

1642
01:46:01,360 --> 01:46:03,720
sign for someone that was about to enter into trafficking.

1643
01:46:03,720 --> 01:46:07,880
So you know, it's that's why I love talking to people like you because you guys have the

1644
01:46:07,880 --> 01:46:09,800
solution as simple as that.

1645
01:46:09,800 --> 01:46:14,760
Well, I like to think so, but it's not always the one.

1646
01:46:14,760 --> 01:46:16,560
But yes, thank you so much.

1647
01:46:16,560 --> 01:46:18,480
All right, well then stand on movies.

1648
01:46:18,480 --> 01:46:21,680
Is there a documentary you've seen that you've loved?

1649
01:46:21,680 --> 01:46:24,960
Okay, so here's the secret.

1650
01:46:24,960 --> 01:46:29,080
I can't sit down for longer than five minutes to watch anything.

1651
01:46:29,080 --> 01:46:30,640
And I tell you why.

1652
01:46:30,640 --> 01:46:35,560
From back in the day when I was on frontline, my phone could ring any minute and I was on

1653
01:46:35,560 --> 01:46:39,620
front lines for six years and on cause 24 seven.

1654
01:46:39,620 --> 01:46:43,640
And I think I had usually one day off one.

1655
01:46:43,640 --> 01:46:49,120
So my system is still after six years not being on front lines.

1656
01:46:49,120 --> 01:46:54,840
I still check my phone every two minutes and I can get comfortable.

1657
01:46:54,840 --> 01:47:02,080
So if I sit down and watch a movie and if the first 10 seconds doesn't get my attention,

1658
01:47:02,080 --> 01:47:03,080
I'm done.

1659
01:47:03,080 --> 01:47:04,560
I can't.

1660
01:47:04,560 --> 01:47:10,440
In my mind, I can't afford to spend an hour and 20 minutes to find out if I'm going to

1661
01:47:10,440 --> 01:47:15,960
like this movie or not, because I may need to go to see a victim, even though I have

1662
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:21,440
not seen a victim in, you know, three years or the odd times I go out, we deliver a fund

1663
01:47:21,440 --> 01:47:24,680
and we do cases, but that's a different story.

1664
01:47:24,680 --> 01:47:31,240
So truth is it's really, really hard for me to sit down and watch something.

1665
01:47:31,240 --> 01:47:36,320
And if it doesn't get my attention in 10 seconds, usually my husband says I'm a little bit of

1666
01:47:36,320 --> 01:47:37,320
a harsh critique.

1667
01:47:37,320 --> 01:47:40,480
I should give you a few minutes.

1668
01:47:40,480 --> 01:47:42,760
Usually I give it about a minute and I'm done.

1669
01:47:42,760 --> 01:47:47,920
So I honestly don't remember when was the last time I watched an entire documentary

1670
01:47:47,920 --> 01:47:52,600
because nothing really got my attention in less than two minutes.

1671
01:47:52,600 --> 01:47:57,600
Yeah, well, I think a lot of people can relate to that in the first responder community.

1672
01:47:57,600 --> 01:48:01,080
I think, you know, it's the hypervigilance for a start.

1673
01:48:01,080 --> 01:48:04,920
That's one thing I'm learning now during this whole virus thing is to stop looking at my

1674
01:48:04,920 --> 01:48:08,440
bloody phone because I'm not that important, you know.

1675
01:48:08,440 --> 01:48:09,560
But then the same as well.

1676
01:48:09,560 --> 01:48:11,640
I don't want to waste 90 minutes of my life.

1677
01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:15,760
I just watched Backdraft 2 a few months ago and I literally felt like I was robbed of

1678
01:48:15,760 --> 01:48:17,000
two hours of my life.

1679
01:48:17,000 --> 01:48:20,840
So yeah, I can actually totally understand what you're saying.

1680
01:48:20,840 --> 01:48:23,320
That's awesome.

1681
01:48:23,320 --> 01:48:25,320
For so long, I didn't understand.

1682
01:48:25,320 --> 01:48:28,760
For so long, I just thought that something is really wrong with me.

1683
01:48:28,760 --> 01:48:30,160
I can't eat properly.

1684
01:48:30,160 --> 01:48:35,680
I'm so picky and I can't watch TV or movies and I'm really like very strong opinionated

1685
01:48:35,680 --> 01:48:38,080
if the acting is bad.

1686
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:42,080
And then just the other day we talked about this and just the other day my husband and

1687
01:48:42,080 --> 01:48:43,480
I kind of figured it out.

1688
01:48:43,480 --> 01:48:44,480
Why am I like that?

1689
01:48:44,480 --> 01:48:46,440
Why is it that I'm like that?

1690
01:48:46,440 --> 01:48:47,440
I'm very impatient.

1691
01:48:47,440 --> 01:48:48,440
Same with food.

1692
01:48:48,440 --> 01:48:51,280
If my food is not out in two minutes, I'm out.

1693
01:48:51,280 --> 01:48:52,280
I'm gone.

1694
01:48:52,280 --> 01:48:54,840
I don't have time for this because what if I get a call?

1695
01:48:54,840 --> 01:48:55,840
Not that I would.

1696
01:48:55,840 --> 01:48:58,880
But, you know, I don't have time to sit and wait for my food.

1697
01:48:58,880 --> 01:49:02,920
I need my food now and I need to eat in case I have to go.

1698
01:49:02,920 --> 01:49:04,280
So it's unfortunate.

1699
01:49:04,280 --> 01:49:06,320
But you know what?

1700
01:49:06,320 --> 01:49:09,280
Yeah, unfortunately, I can't give you any documentaries.

1701
01:49:09,280 --> 01:49:10,280
No, no, that's fine.

1702
01:49:10,280 --> 01:49:12,480
That was a great conversation about documentaries.

1703
01:49:12,480 --> 01:49:15,040
So that's the point really.

1704
01:49:15,040 --> 01:49:17,000
So the next question I love to ask.

1705
01:49:17,000 --> 01:49:21,360
Is there a person that you recommend to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the

1706
01:49:21,360 --> 01:49:26,520
first responders, military and associated professions of the world?

1707
01:49:26,520 --> 01:49:30,120
I have a million.

1708
01:49:30,120 --> 01:49:37,520
Yes, I have obviously a lot of law enforcement friends who are first responders and work

1709
01:49:37,520 --> 01:49:42,760
with victims of human trafficking or just first responders.

1710
01:49:42,760 --> 01:49:44,080
Not just, you know what I mean?

1711
01:49:44,080 --> 01:49:45,720
Like first responders.

1712
01:49:45,720 --> 01:49:51,720
I have a friend who's a probation officer who's doing such an amazing work with his

1713
01:49:51,720 --> 01:49:57,640
clients, which would be actually I think it would be very interesting to listen to.

1714
01:49:57,640 --> 01:50:03,200
I met him 10 years ago and he was we were working on a case where the girl actually

1715
01:50:03,200 --> 01:50:06,520
saw other girls being shot in the head.

1716
01:50:06,520 --> 01:50:09,280
And unfortunately, she disappeared after that.

1717
01:50:09,280 --> 01:50:13,040
And then two years later, she died and terrible cases.

1718
01:50:13,040 --> 01:50:16,360
So he had he is amazing.

1719
01:50:16,360 --> 01:50:21,440
He's been a probation officer for I think 15 or 17 years.

1720
01:50:21,440 --> 01:50:27,000
And her his ability to help the young people to turn their life around, no matter where

1721
01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:31,400
they come from, with the little resource he has is just unbelievable.

1722
01:50:31,400 --> 01:50:33,520
So I think he would be amazing.

1723
01:50:33,520 --> 01:50:36,820
Yeah, I have several suggestions.

1724
01:50:36,820 --> 01:50:39,120
If you give me some time, I can think more.

1725
01:50:39,120 --> 01:50:41,400
But yes, I definitely do.

1726
01:50:41,400 --> 01:50:42,400
Excellent.

1727
01:50:42,400 --> 01:50:45,240
I agree 100 percent that I haven't had a probation officer on here yet.

1728
01:50:45,240 --> 01:50:48,000
And I think that would be a very, very interesting perspective.

1729
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:51,440
So yeah, whoever whoever you would want to connect me with, I would love that.

1730
01:50:51,440 --> 01:50:52,440
Thank you.

1731
01:50:52,440 --> 01:50:53,440
All right.

1732
01:50:53,440 --> 01:50:57,640
So then the last question before we make sure everyone knows where to find you, what do

1733
01:50:57,640 --> 01:51:02,240
you do to decompress when you're not looking at your phone every two minutes and helping

1734
01:51:02,240 --> 01:51:05,360
helping victims?

1735
01:51:05,360 --> 01:51:07,580
I love decorating.

1736
01:51:07,580 --> 01:51:17,400
So you probably would find me at IKEA or antique stores, a side of the road and and trying

1737
01:51:17,400 --> 01:51:23,920
to help my friends and myself and anybody I know to decorate their interior decoration.

1738
01:51:23,920 --> 01:51:28,880
So that's my that's where I go and calm down and in the kitchen.

1739
01:51:28,880 --> 01:51:29,880
I'm not very good at it.

1740
01:51:29,880 --> 01:51:31,760
So I don't want to promote that part.

1741
01:51:31,760 --> 01:51:33,600
I definitely home decor.

1742
01:51:33,600 --> 01:51:34,600
What's yours?

1743
01:51:34,600 --> 01:51:36,240
That's a good question.

1744
01:51:36,240 --> 01:51:40,840
So my and if you heard a little bumping, that was my German shepherd pushing away into my

1745
01:51:40,840 --> 01:51:42,680
office and she's lying at my feet now.

1746
01:51:42,680 --> 01:51:45,860
So walking her, we live on a community.

1747
01:51:45,860 --> 01:51:49,400
So I do like a half hour walk with her around the lake.

1748
01:51:49,400 --> 01:51:51,720
So yeah, I leave my phone at home.

1749
01:51:51,720 --> 01:51:54,880
No matter what happens, they can wait for 30 minutes.

1750
01:51:54,880 --> 01:51:58,360
But yeah, that's that's one of my big decompressions and then exercise as well.

1751
01:51:58,360 --> 01:51:59,360
Wow.

1752
01:51:59,360 --> 01:52:04,240
How long did it take you to leave your phone at home for 30 minutes?

1753
01:52:04,240 --> 01:52:08,000
Actually, I really think that the mindful practices helped.

1754
01:52:08,000 --> 01:52:12,800
I've started jumping back into yoga a lot more since this covid thing and my monkey

1755
01:52:12,800 --> 01:52:15,240
mind has definitely settled down a little bit.

1756
01:52:15,240 --> 01:52:20,440
So I think that hyper vigilance, whether it's the journey you've been on or a lot of the

1757
01:52:20,440 --> 01:52:26,040
police and fire and EMS that's out there, we are constantly waiting for a tone to go

1758
01:52:26,040 --> 01:52:30,000
off and then we go running into a vehicle and turning lights and sirens on.

1759
01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:36,160
So I think that really helped settle everything down where you're just trying to be present

1760
01:52:36,160 --> 01:52:42,560
and then the more mindful practice I've done, the less I think about stuff like checking

1761
01:52:42,560 --> 01:52:47,360
my phone because you and I were both of the generation that there weren't cell phones

1762
01:52:47,360 --> 01:52:51,880
once and you just left a voicemail or even before that, there wasn't a voicemail.

1763
01:52:51,880 --> 01:52:54,440
You just either got someone in the house or you didn't.

1764
01:52:54,440 --> 01:52:56,440
So I think that's it.

1765
01:52:56,440 --> 01:53:00,960
If it's that important in 2020, they'll get a hold of you regardless.

1766
01:53:00,960 --> 01:53:02,960
So it's just trusting that.

1767
01:53:02,960 --> 01:53:05,720
That's fair enough.

1768
01:53:05,720 --> 01:53:10,200
Well, that's a great answer.

1769
01:53:10,200 --> 01:53:15,360
And are you going back to frontline work once covid is over?

1770
01:53:15,360 --> 01:53:16,360
I am not.

1771
01:53:16,360 --> 01:53:22,280
I actually retired out about a year and a half ago to focus on this because like the

1772
01:53:22,280 --> 01:53:26,620
Special Forces men and women refer to the force multiplier.

1773
01:53:26,620 --> 01:53:31,920
So just like Nick, Nick could be on the ground as a PJ helping one downed airman at a time.

1774
01:53:31,920 --> 01:53:35,680
Well now he's running deliver fund helping thousands of people and that's kind of how

1775
01:53:35,680 --> 01:53:41,320
I see the podcast is I'm able to bring people like yourself on and thousands of people will

1776
01:53:41,320 --> 01:53:43,600
listen to that story.

1777
01:53:43,600 --> 01:53:48,760
So I just feel like that now having been a fireman for 14 years, that's the next level

1778
01:53:48,760 --> 01:53:52,720
for me is not to promote in a fire service, but get away from the fire service so I can

1779
01:53:52,720 --> 01:53:57,720
be a voice that can speak freely and hopefully find some solutions to some of the problems

1780
01:53:57,720 --> 01:53:59,400
in the world.

1781
01:53:59,400 --> 01:54:02,900
I think it's absolutely incredible what you're doing.

1782
01:54:02,900 --> 01:54:09,860
And I think every human being who is frontline workers, they can do this for only so long.

1783
01:54:09,860 --> 01:54:17,200
And then after that, the tour starts to take and you just need to know when you can get

1784
01:54:17,200 --> 01:54:18,200
out.

1785
01:54:18,200 --> 01:54:21,840
And people can do it for the rest of their lives, which is absolutely amazing.

1786
01:54:21,840 --> 01:54:27,920
And if my organization didn't run out of funds, I would be still running around with victims

1787
01:54:27,920 --> 01:54:30,920
in my car, which would be just as well.

1788
01:54:30,920 --> 01:54:38,320
But I guess God had different plans for us, but I still admire the frontline workers and

1789
01:54:38,320 --> 01:54:41,680
I would do anything for them.

1790
01:54:41,680 --> 01:54:48,480
And when I'll be a multimillionaire, I will find a way to give back to any frontline agencies

1791
01:54:48,480 --> 01:54:49,480
as well.

1792
01:54:49,480 --> 01:54:52,520
And so yeah, what you're doing, I think is absolutely amazing.

1793
01:54:52,520 --> 01:54:55,920
And it's such an honor to be on your show, honestly.

1794
01:54:55,920 --> 01:54:57,400
Well, thank you for coming on.

1795
01:54:57,400 --> 01:55:01,040
Like I said, Nick and I spoke quite a while ago now because I was looking for someone

1796
01:55:01,040 --> 01:55:05,240
on the other side of the trafficking coin, as it were.

1797
01:55:05,240 --> 01:55:07,720
And your name was the first person he talked about.

1798
01:55:07,720 --> 01:55:10,040
So I'm so glad that we were able to do that.

1799
01:55:10,040 --> 01:55:12,880
I want to make sure that people know where to find you and where to find the book.

1800
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:18,840
So where's the best place online to reach out to you and find your work?

1801
01:55:18,840 --> 01:55:20,680
So they can just Google me.

1802
01:55:20,680 --> 01:55:22,960
It's Timmy and Aggy.

1803
01:55:22,960 --> 01:55:26,600
And then they'll find my website, which is timmyandaggy.com.

1804
01:55:26,600 --> 01:55:32,800
They can also connect me through Deliver Fund, deliverfund.org.

1805
01:55:32,800 --> 01:55:34,320
And the book is on Amazon.

1806
01:55:34,320 --> 01:55:35,320
Brilliant.

1807
01:55:35,320 --> 01:55:36,320
All right.

1808
01:55:36,320 --> 01:55:37,860
Well, Tamir, I want to say thank you again.

1809
01:55:37,860 --> 01:55:39,200
Your story is incredible.

1810
01:55:39,200 --> 01:55:41,680
You are leading from the front.

1811
01:55:41,680 --> 01:55:45,520
The trauma that you went through to overcome that and then turn around and immediately

1812
01:55:45,520 --> 01:55:50,280
start helping people, you know, either that are in it or stop even getting in the first

1813
01:55:50,280 --> 01:55:52,240
place is so admirable.

1814
01:55:52,240 --> 01:55:55,760
And I just really appreciate you taking the time because I understand the toll that takes,

1815
01:55:55,760 --> 01:55:57,320
you know, telling the story again.

1816
01:55:57,320 --> 01:56:01,360
So I hope that us spending the time on this is going to make a big difference.

1817
01:56:01,360 --> 01:56:05,880
But I really, really appreciate you being so generous.

1818
01:56:05,880 --> 01:56:07,480
It's absolutely my pleasure.

1819
01:56:07,480 --> 01:56:12,080
And just closing, there's one more outlet you can find me if you're a frontline worker.

1820
01:56:12,080 --> 01:56:15,520
And if you have questions, my door is always open.

1821
01:56:15,520 --> 01:56:16,880
That's what I've done for 10 years.

1822
01:56:16,880 --> 01:56:18,960
I still train law enforcement.

1823
01:56:18,960 --> 01:56:19,960
Please reach out to me.

1824
01:56:19,960 --> 01:56:21,960
You can find me on LinkedIn as well.

1825
01:56:21,960 --> 01:56:24,880
And on LinkedIn, it's Timmy and Aggy.

1826
01:56:24,880 --> 01:56:28,560
And my my married name is Payne, P-A-Y-N-E.

1827
01:56:28,560 --> 01:56:32,200
So Timmy and Aggy Payne, MSM.

1828
01:56:32,200 --> 01:56:34,360
That's my that's my credentials.

1829
01:56:34,360 --> 01:56:35,360
So please reach out.

1830
01:56:35,360 --> 01:56:37,680
I'm always happy to help anyway I can.