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Now to learn more about Thorn, go to episode 323 of the Behind the Shield podcast with

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Joel Titoro and Wes Barnett.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

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the show 20-year veteran of FDNY, the director of health and fitness and the co-founder of

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Fire Tribe, Rob Cefoli.

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So in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from his own journey into the fire

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service, the importance of fitness in the tactical athlete, some notable calls from

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his career, his own powerful mental health story, discovering trauma release exercises

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that are able to offload the stress and tension held into the body from the mind, the application

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of those methods within FDNY and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and

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leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of almost a thousand episodes now, so all I ask in return is that

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you help share these incredible men and women stories so I can get them to every single

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person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Rob Cefoli.

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Enjoy.

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Well Rob, I want to say firstly, thank you so much for reaching out and secondly, welcome

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to the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Thank you so much for having me, it's an honor.

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I've been following you for a while, so thank you for having me, appreciate it.

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So where on planet earth are we finding you this afternoon?

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I'm at home, I'm in New York, Staten Island, a small borough outside of the city and this

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is where I reside.

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But I work in Brooklyn, so most of my career.

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Now when you say home, you look like you're in a beautiful gym, so is that your kind of

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home gym that you've pimped out?

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Right, I built the studio probably seven, eight years ago.

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This was at the lapidated pool house in the back of the house I bought and I wanted to

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make it a gym.

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It took me about five years to get it going and once I got it going, I wanted to turn

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it into a nice little business on the side at home.

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I haven't been to a gym probably in 10 years, a commercial gym.

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So yeah, it works well for myself, my family, my kids, everything.

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Brilliant.

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So how did that factor in during COVID then when people were scrambling?

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Because one of my friends who just started a gym is an FDNY charity, but he also started

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a gym for people, especially that are in the sobriety kind of process to be able to work

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out and he opened the gym, I think it was a month before COVID hit and he just got completely

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smashed.

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So how were you able to circumnavigate that by having your own place?

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It worked well.

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I didn't have to worry about any of that.

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I always worry about my three foot rule and controlling my space, so this allows me to

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do that without any problems, scheduling issues, traffic, somebody else on the machine that

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I want to use.

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And it also allows me to have the people that want to learn how to train correctly come

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to me rather than deal with big box gyms.

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I've been there, I've been 20 years ago, I was a trainer in gyms like that.

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At some point you have your own style that you come up with and you need certain equipment

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that you like to use and teach people the functionality of fitness and it doesn't have

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to be difficult or long-winded.

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So this actually worked out really well that I had it.

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You know, again, they shut down fitness, which was probably a bad idea, I'd imagine for a

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lot of people.

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Parks, beaches, gyms, yeah, that should make people more resilient, definitely.

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Yeah, it seems to be the opposite effect, right?

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We saw it too, yeah, we see it coming into the academy.

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Absolutely.

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We'll dive into that in a little bit.

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Before we do though, let's start at the beginning of your timeline.

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So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what

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your parents did, how many siblings?

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Okay, so I was born in 1980 in Brooklyn and we were there a few years.

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We moved out to Staten Island, my parents lived in an apartment, my father was a carpenter

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by trade, my mom, they actually met in a bank prior to that, got into the union.

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My mom came out, they bought the house, the whole dream of getting from the apartment

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to the house and Staten Island at the time was not as populated as it is now and it was

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a good place to go to the suburbs, as they call it.

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So they get the house and raise the kids and all that stuff.

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I have one sister, she's three and a half years older, she's out in Pennsylvania and

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I grew up a regular suburban life, riding the bikes, going out, playing baseball and

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I went to St. John's University out here on the island, took business management and I

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just never really fit into the corporate space I would say.

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I didn't really want that, my parents wanted me to go to college for that whole next level,

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that was the thing in the 90s is go to college, get a good job, safe, secure job and wanted

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to get a secure job that's not so safe but it is secure with a pension.

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So I went the blue collar route anyway, even though I had a degree and after college is

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when I realized that training was something I liked to do.

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I was not the best athlete, I played sports in high school and all through my life but

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I liked to exercise, liked to work out and that was kind of the start of that.

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I became a trainer right before the Fire Academy, opened my own business, started working in

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the gyms, I had a few clients at home, I had a few clients in the gyms but I had the fire

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department coming down the road.

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I was top of the list on what I rode on and I knew that was coming so that was kind of

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like my safety net I would say but I did work for about a year and a half on my own, quit

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my job in corporate world after college and I just couldn't stand it.

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I couldn't sit at a desk all day.

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Fire fighting seemed to be not your childhood, it's a childhood dream but you get pushed

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by it kind of in an old direction and then it just came back and it worked out really

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great.

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I can't say I would see myself doing anything different.

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What was growing up on Staten Island like?

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When I worked for summer camps years ago, the first year was 94, I met one of the counselors

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who lived in Staten Island so I stayed there literally just for I think it was one or two

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nights.

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Beautiful place to go see the Statue of Liberty for free, just take the ferry there and the

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ferry back and then also as anyone who's into hip hop knows, the home of the Wu Tang Clan.

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So what was your experience growing up there?

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We love the Wu Tang Clan in Staten Island.

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It's funny because that's the music that we listened to growing up.

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Being close to the city was great, you're able to go in and go out but you said that's

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a suburbia feel to it as well.

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It was usually a safe community.

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You get around Staten Island and bikes and going to the woods and all that stuff.

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It's a little more populated now, it's a little more dense with cars and traffic and it gets

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a little bit of a monotony especially in the mornings when you're trying to drop the kids

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at school or this and that gets to work.

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The city has become definitely more populated and condensed in terms of energy.

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You feel like the pressure of it.

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It is a big city too so you get from our end in terms of how it was then.

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It was more trees and parks and all that stuff.

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Now all of a sudden houses come up because everybody wants to move out of the city.

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That now becomes a very congested place to live.

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Everything changes and evolves.

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Now you end up not only being in a very tactical athletic profession but you now are in charge

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of the health and fitness side.

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What was it that you were playing and doing as far as sports and exercise when you were

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in the school ages?

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Back then it was really not a lot of information.

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We had a small program, it was an engineering high school so the sports program wasn't premier

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as some other schools might have been at the time.

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Very limited access to equipment, very limited access to information and what to do for tactically

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or functional for each specific sport I would say.

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I see that a lot these days as well.

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In talks with a school to become a strength and conditioning coach and it still hasn't

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caught up to a lot of the pace of modern training and modern information that we have.

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People still doing the body building type of training.

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They still have that type of setup in their schools.

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We had a classroom with probably a few benches, some military barbell seats and maybe a leg

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extension.

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We really had no access to what they have today in terms of performance and sports coaching

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and stuff like that.

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It definitely didn't allow me to excel in terms of what I probably could have done especially

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knowing now if I had that then I probably would have done things a lot differently.

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We were talking before we hit record about the increasing struggle to recruit because

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as we are all fully aware even after the pandemic and shame on us for not reversing it then,

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our nation is getting fatter and sicker.

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It sounds like a condescending nasty thing to say but it's just statistics and it's

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sad.

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We wish the opposite.

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One of my friends Doug Orchard made a documentary a few years ago called The Motivation Factor

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and it highlighted some schools in California that had actually learned from the Russians

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and implemented this beautiful PE system where there was like four different colored shirts.

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They were in groups so these kids had to work together and you slowly just like martial

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arts you kind of mastered each of these skills whether it was parallel bars or run, encumbered

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run whatever it was and then you level up to the next shorts and the next shorts.

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The best athletes any of them could be on the front of muscle and fitness.

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I mean they all these freaking seniors are phenomenal but you imagine even the kids that

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really wanted to be in the chess club or pay carinet were still in great shape because

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everyone had to do it.

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What is your perspective if you could be king for a day especially now that you've found

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yourself immersed in high school athletics again, what should we be doing in high schools

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to reverse this health nightmare that we're in at the moment?

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I think it has to start a lot earlier than high school to be honest with you.

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My boys are fourth, three and nine months.

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My daughter's 12 and they all work out with me when we're home so it's kind of ingrained

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in our culture and I see how if you don't start that early of just appreciating movement,

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we run, we walk, we hike, we'll come and do like basic stuff.

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We'll do push-ups, we'll do hand from the bar, we'll go to the park when we're at the

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park we'll do stuff at the park as well that are similar to how we train.

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That's how my brain works.

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When my kids are around if we're doing something it's for a purpose so I think we all as parents

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have a duty to understand what that means for us first because if you don't take care

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of yourself first or you don't have that education you have to go look for some people that have

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that information for yourself so you can teach your kids because otherwise it's going to

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be a feedback loop that's going to just keep on degrading our population.

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The information is not getting put into elementary school, they're taking the PE out of the schools.

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That's the first thing.

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We used to do push-up tests and sit-up tests and sit and reach and we used to do running

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in the schoolyard and races and I don't see that happening.

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My daughter is 12, very little of that went on in her elementary school.

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I think some schools have a little bit of PE but I believe it's more just games.

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They're playing games for fun, they're playing games for inclusion and they're not actually

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just making it a workout which it really should be.

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If your kids grow up now they're 14, 15 trying to play sports and they've never exercised

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in their life.

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They have no concept of how their body works, what they can and can't do, how to speed up,

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slow down, how to make maneuvers and they're not going to be strong enough to handle that

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and you're going to have an increase in injuries, say knee injuries or catastrophic injuries

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at a younger age.

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It's just because you're deconditioned and you're probably not eating well as well and

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that's a whole other area that people miss that it's not just training, it's actually

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more your sleep patterns.

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2010 social media came involved so now you have kids on their phones and social media.

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At night they're staying up late, their brain's being active so they're not getting a good

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rest, not doing recovery, starting the day with either nothing or bowl of cereal.

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We don't do that here.

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We're not eating that here.

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I'm sorry.

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I won't give my kids, I can't.

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You know too much, right?

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You can give them a little bit of that leeway I guess because society, it's almost peer

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pressure when you're around groups of people.

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If you just had your kids to yourself and your own silo you could do whatever you want

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but it's the combination of things and having them now understand what's good for them and

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what's bad from a very early age.

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My four year old could tell you, he'll verbatim because he's repeating what I'm saying but

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if I explain something to him how this is good and this is better, a better choice,

224
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that's what I'm looking at my kids to understand early.

225
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And then if you just ingrain in them the better, they can have a better grasp of decision making

226
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and then they'll be able to make better decisions through high school and college and then into

227
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,400
adulthood where they're going to be really good assets to the population or whatever

228
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job they're in or service.

229
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The program in California, one of the philosophies was if you get all the kids in great shape,

230
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,640
especially obviously the ones that really want to be athletes, when it comes to the

231
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sports, all you've really got to focus on is the actual skill of the sport.

232
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And I think the application is exactly the same when you look at the military and the

233
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first responder communities.

234
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,040
And I've had several people, especially from the military talking about the recruitment

235
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crisis and the fact that we're doing a disservice to national security because fewer and fewer

236
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,080
and people are able to fill these uniforms.

237
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But if you put these standards back where they need to be, not only you fostering mental

238
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and physical health, which arguably is the most important thing, it breaks my heart seeing

239
00:15:49,540 --> 00:15:56,800
either an overweight child or a frail child, one that's not overweight, but their spine

240
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,240
was already contorted.

241
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That's heartbreaking to see.

242
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,920
But if you get all these men and women, these young men and women to a certain point of

243
00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:09,680
fitness, some of them may far exceed it, then so many of them potentially could be a soldier,

244
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,080
a firefighter, a police officer, or they could be an accountant or a teacher or something

245
00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:15,080
else.

246
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,360
But at least they're not eliminated from those professions because they weren't taught

247
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how to be physical.

248
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,920
Yeah, it's the daily discipline.

249
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,040
You're building discipline into yourself when you train and when you eat healthy, you're

250
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,040
making better decisions.

251
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,960
You're getting not dissuaded from just what's going on around you and everybody else, the

252
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:36,680
common folk.

253
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:43,360
People that aren't awake to it suffer the ailments, they suffer disease, things that

254
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,800
are completely manageable just by managing yourself.

255
00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,120
So when you have populations that are going through this phase, you are going to have

256
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:54,840
liabilities in whatever service you're in or whatever job you take.

257
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:59,240
And part of Mission Critical in 2022, that was an interesting conference because that

258
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,160
had a lot of these agencies that we were a part of and I was able to attend that in California.

259
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:04,840
They all have the same problems.

260
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:09,200
They're all having these recruitment issues, they're having dysfunction in the candidates

261
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,360
coming through and weight issues.

262
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:12,360
What do we have?

263
00:17:12,360 --> 00:17:16,480
We just have a population that is being fed the wrong things.

264
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,600
They're listening to the wrong information or they're not paying attention.

265
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,440
And when you start to pay attention more of what's in the things that you're eating, let's

266
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,560
say, you notice that there's a lot of extras in there.

267
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:35,720
And keep it simple, be able to control what you're doing in that sense and your body will

268
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:36,720
work better.

269
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:37,720
That's number one.

270
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,440
It's just hard to do because of time.

271
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,020
Everyone works a ton of hours.

272
00:17:42,020 --> 00:17:43,840
We work a ton of hours here in New York.

273
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:44,840
It's crazy.

274
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:49,000
It's a good problem to have, I would say, because a lot of people don't have the availability

275
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,000
to work so much.

276
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,960
But we do because we have a manpower issue in our department.

277
00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:59,360
And when you're looking at training, for example, and you're thinking about these population

278
00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:02,080
groups, it's the same concept.

279
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,720
If you're not being disciplined from an early age, you're never going to be able to put

280
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,240
it all together because you don't have the amount of reps in.

281
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,120
You have to fail forward in this life and every time you get new information, you should

282
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,080
be able to adapt and evolve to it.

283
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,240
But a lot of people just stay in the same mindset from when they grew up, whatever they

284
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,240
were taught, and they're unable to break out of that shell.

285
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,640
And then they become just the person you can't really rely on in our service.

286
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,440
And you know, you can't have liabilities at a job.

287
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:31,320
You just can't.

288
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:38,720
One hole in the equation, that's a missed position.

289
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,040
It's a missed opportunity for success.

290
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,040
One thing leads to the next.

291
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,920
Now you have two holes, three, four holes, let's say, in the future.

292
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:47,360
Now you have the catastrophic event.

293
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:48,840
And that's just, they call it swish cheese, right?

294
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:53,120
When all the holes line up and we have a line of duty death or something like that.

295
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:56,960
So well, speaking of Swiss cheese, what I'm seeing in the fire service, and it's kind

296
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:02,360
of what we're talking about, you've got everything from fewer candidates at the front door to

297
00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:06,240
smart candidates with an access to the internet where it can actually see, okay, what does

298
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:07,240
it look like?

299
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,300
And a lot of fire departments now, these kids are researching and going, well, the pay is

300
00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:14,600
not great, but it's not primarily what I'm doing it.

301
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:19,720
But now I'm seeing that it's 56 hours a week and I'm hearing from my firefighter friends

302
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,240
that every two weeks you'll get told you can't go home.

303
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,040
So now it's an 80 hour work week and you've got these divorces and you've got these cancers

304
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,080
and you've got these suicides and more recently, these murder suicides that keep popping up.

305
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:35,520
So this is the thing that I'm seeing is that you've got young candidates, fewer of which

306
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,820
that are now able to be picky because there's so many blooming jobs around and they're actually

307
00:19:39,820 --> 00:19:41,680
doing their due diligence.

308
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,320
Or we just were like, yeah, I want to be a firefighter, we joined the thousands of people

309
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,880
that tested and then fingers crossed, hopefully we got one of the positions.

310
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:54,120
The Swiss cheese thing though terrifies me because in the meantime, and I'm out of the

311
00:19:54,120 --> 00:20:00,600
service now, so I'm not having to pay this price, but as we get less and less people

312
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,660
in the stations on the rigs, it's the men and women that are already working that have

313
00:20:04,660 --> 00:20:07,700
to keep filling and filling and filling and filling.

314
00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:13,080
And that mandatory overtime is maximizing sleep deprivation, which then in turn is causing

315
00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:17,420
everything from mental health to injuries to cancer to all the other things.

316
00:20:17,420 --> 00:20:23,020
So what are you seeing in FDNY as far as leaning on people who are already working because

317
00:20:23,020 --> 00:20:28,000
of some of the staffing challenges that you've got?

318
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,320
It's a double edged sword.

319
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:35,040
The guys and girls, they appreciate the money because a lot of them have families where

320
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:40,480
they will live with kids and schedules, extra money helps us.

321
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,320
What we're not looking at is what that does to our body, like you said, the sleep deprivation.

322
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:49,720
We all kind of know it, but there's only a few of us that are really talking about it.

323
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:50,720
It's a big problem.

324
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,240
You're seeing a lot of issues at home.

325
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,080
You're seeing, because you're just not there, number one.

326
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,200
I'm dealing with myself.

327
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,320
I have three children here living full time.

328
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,360
I have my daughter who's part time.

329
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:05,440
Going through a divorce shocker early in my career.

330
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:10,920
Again, that was attributed probably on my end to an incident, and we can talk about

331
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,440
that as well, of trauma.

332
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,920
Coming back from that and now you have juggling schedules and this and that and trying to

333
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:18,920
figure out work.

334
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:19,920
Then yeah, you're getting forced in.

335
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,640
You have standbys, which means you have to be available at certain times, weekends, nights,

336
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:24,640
all that stuff.

337
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:29,880
It has an effect on your family life because you're not able to live like a suburban family

338
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,560
in the terms of what that looks like is, hey, we work all night, five, and give it away

339
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,320
on the weekends.

340
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:36,520
That's gone now.

341
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:37,520
Everybody's working all the time.

342
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,680
You've got to fit in the things when you can.

343
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:45,160
You're trying to fit in kids routines and the sports and all that stuff.

344
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,620
You're just getting less and less sleep.

345
00:21:47,620 --> 00:21:49,840
You're getting more and more runs.

346
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,040
Your body's breaking down.

347
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:55,120
You're probably not eating that well, additionally, because now the firehouse meals sometimes

348
00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:57,160
aren't the best, as we all know.

349
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,400
Again, it's out of your control.

350
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,520
I like to control a lot of things in my life for me because I know if I suffer, if I don't

351
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,520
sleep, I am not good at parenting.

352
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,960
I am not because I'm too tired.

353
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:10,000
I'm shocked.

354
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,640
It comes down to that where I don't like to be like that at home.

355
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:15,640
I don't.

356
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,360
I don't like to be like that in the firehouse because I'm not thinking clearly.

357
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:22,800
It does play on the roles that yeah, we can get away with it for some times because we're

358
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,880
not always going to fires.

359
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,360
If you're running around three or four nights a week, then you're going home.

360
00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:30,120
I'd say, my son's teething right now.

361
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:34,040
Now, there's a couple of weeks of teething where now you're home and you're not sleeping

362
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,960
or now your four-year-old comes into bed, wakes you up.

363
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:38,240
Now you're constantly not sleeping.

364
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,880
Every night, I'm never sleeping fully through the night, ever.

365
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,720
What do I have to do is try to mitigate it through the things that I do for myself.

366
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:51,400
I had to change my plan of how I train and what I do for recovery and what do I eat.

367
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,720
It's just an attempt to balance it all.

368
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,920
I'm not trying to be a bodybuilder, but I'm trying to mitigate what's happening to my

369
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,240
body because I understand it more now than ever.

370
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:05,000
I think a lot of people should understand there are certain things you can do to help

371
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,000
yourself.

372
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,440
You can't get around it because this is where you live in and this is your job.

373
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:10,440
This is your career.

374
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,440
You're not going to avoid it by not working.

375
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,360
You have to work.

376
00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:17,560
What can we do is what I've been trying to work on the last year or so because I've had

377
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,760
some profound progress with a lot of the things that we've put into practice.

378
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:21,760
Absolutely.

379
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:22,760
We'll jump into that.

380
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,640
I just want to get to your journey into the fire service.

381
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:31,080
What was the influence that even made you consider FDNY and then let's walk through

382
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,440
your rock experience?

383
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:39,520
I think as friends going through the process, I had a few friends ahead of me that were

384
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:40,520
close.

385
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:41,520
We were all going to college.

386
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:42,520
The guys were taking the test.

387
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:43,520
They had family on the job.

388
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:48,720
I didn't have any family on the job, but I'm from Blue Collar.

389
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,800
I was told not to go that way.

390
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,040
That was the big issue.

391
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,720
That's why it was never really a dream because I think for the whole time it was a plan that

392
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,080
was put in place by your parents.

393
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:00,080
That's how we all grew up.

394
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,080
Hey, you got to do this.

395
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:02,080
This is better than what we did.

396
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:03,640
You got to get ahead in life.

397
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:04,640
For us, it was go to college.

398
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:05,640
Don't be Blue Collar.

399
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:06,640
Don't go to unions.

400
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,640
You're going to get a really good job if you do that.

401
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,440
Then you're like, you go to school and you don't know what you're doing.

402
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,720
Management business, it's very general.

403
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:21,960
I went to school, made a ton of friends, joined the fraternity, had some drinking issues then.

404
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:26,320
It transformed into the fire service issues when I had my issues.

405
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,600
Again, you look it back and you say, it was all for a good reason, but maybe that's not

406
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:31,600
for me.

407
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,920
You realize that that plan is not my plan or what I should be doing.

408
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:40,800
You got to really get in tune with yourself to realize that it's something that's innate

409
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:41,800
in all of us.

410
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:42,800
It's a physical job.

411
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,960
One of the things, like I said earlier, I like to be physical.

412
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:46,960
I was a laborer.

413
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,120
I worked in construction.

414
00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:49,120
I did all these things.

415
00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:50,620
I just never liked to sit.

416
00:24:50,620 --> 00:24:53,320
Right now at a desk, it's like I want to move.

417
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:54,320
I want to do something.

418
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,320
I'm always in motion.

419
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,440
Unfortunately, for my parents' sake, they saw me going to the fire service.

420
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,880
I took the test and I was like, I'm going to do this because I needed something else.

421
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,140
I had nothing on my horizon that was really intriguing to me.

422
00:25:08,140 --> 00:25:09,920
As a kid, I loved firefighters.

423
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,760
My mom called for the gas leak that one time.

424
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:12,760
I'm out in my pajamas.

425
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,720
I'm probably eight years old and they come in the house and I'm like, these guys are

426
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:16,720
gigantic.

427
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,000
Look at these guys, the fire truck.

428
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,040
It's every kid's dream.

429
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:26,240
I think if you've seen the fireman come down the block, everybody gets excited for that.

430
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:27,560
It's always buried inside of you.

431
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,200
I think for a long time, it didn't come out until I went through the process and said,

432
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,040
I'll take the test and I'll see what's going on.

433
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,720
Then all of a sudden, I'm like really gearing myself up for it and for the physical and

434
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,880
then for getting the academy.

435
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,120
Every time you're being challenged to level up, you have to change who you are.

436
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:44,760
You have to get ready for the entrance runs.

437
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:45,760
You have to get ready for the testing.

438
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:46,760
You have to get ready for the academy.

439
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:51,880
You've got to physically prepare to be this superhero that we all envisioned as kids coming

440
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,160
through the door to save the day.

441
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:59,200
Honestly, it wasn't until that point when my friends started going through the process

442
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:00,200
that I realized, you know what?

443
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,200
Maybe I can do that as well.

444
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,880
I didn't think about it until then because again, I was in the mindset of doing it.

445
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:07,880
I was going to college.

446
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:13,880
I was going to go do something with a shirt and tie and that was going to be my life.

447
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,160
That's because I was listening to my parents who thought they knew best and what I needed

448
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:23,120
to do for my life and my family as what they knew.

449
00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:28,680
All they knew is they were from immigrants and they got this job where they work all

450
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,840
the time and they just didn't want that for me even though we had a great life growing

451
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:33,840
up.

452
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,560
Where were they from?

453
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,880
My parents are both from Brooklyn but my grandparents are from Italy.

454
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,960
Well, from my father's side, we don't know who my grandfather is.

455
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:51,360
That's a whole other issue that my dad and myself have dealt with because you don't really

456
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:52,360
know.

457
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:56,040
It was a situation that it haunts my father.

458
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:01,600
His mom never told him and that caused a lot of pain in his heart.

459
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,640
As I grew up, now that I look at my sons, I give them a lot of empathy now that I'm

460
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:11,280
able to access those emotions through some of the TRE stuff that we worked on that personally

461
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:12,280
helped me.

462
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:17,440
But I realized that my dad never got that from a father figure.

463
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:23,480
To raise me well, he did the best he could not having that role model for himself.

464
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:24,480
He was a Vietnam vet.

465
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,960
There's a lot of issues from that as well that he buries deep that we all bury deep.

466
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,600
That causes a problem in our bodies.

467
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,800
We hold those things in.

468
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:37,160
I can attest to that years later as I went through the fire service and having issues

469
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:44,720
through the job and just realizing what was still kind of clinging to me in terms of residue.

470
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,960
Being an Italian background and something else, I would say.

471
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,640
But that was how we were raised.

472
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,480
My mom was very strict with us and that was a good thing.

473
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,760
We have a lot of that skill set that we developed as kids that most kids today don't have.

474
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,400
Just clean your room, how to pick up after yourself, how to do the chores, how to do

475
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:11,200
the things that be responsible so you can be an adult that's responsible.

476
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:12,200
That's how I raise my children.

477
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:19,600
But I don't see that in a lot of other places where it's easily handed to kids these days.

478
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:24,280
When you look back at your childhood and the reason I'm back to ask this is when we talk

479
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,600
about mental health, which I know we're going to in a moment in the fire service, more often

480
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,520
than not, people are like, oh, it's because you ran this school.

481
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:32,760
You were at the World Trade Center.

482
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,720
You were at the Vegas shooting, whatever it was.

483
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,600
As I've gone on almost a thousand interviews now, I realize just how many people in uniform

484
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:47,720
have elements of their childhood that if left unaddressed contribute to struggles when we're

485
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,280
wearing uniform.

486
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:54,480
When you reflect back now with this wise 2024 lens, were there elements of your upbringing

487
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,640
that you think contributed to struggles later on?

488
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,280
A hundred percent.

489
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,760
A lot of it's the emotional connection that I never really could process.

490
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,800
I couldn't be close to people, my ex-wife, my wife even currently.

491
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:13,200
We had issues with that intimacy, just the physical connection that was lacking probably

492
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:19,840
from when my dad never received that from his stepfather.

493
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,440
Growing up was good.

494
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:22,620
You were protected.

495
00:29:22,620 --> 00:29:24,360
You had a home.

496
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:25,840
They didn't let you worry about stuff.

497
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,480
You grew up as best as they could.

498
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:32,880
But that was one thing I feel was missing that I give my sons now more than anything,

499
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:37,360
even though I'm very strict with them as young kids, but I still give them the love that

500
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:43,720
I believe is necessary as a man to have to balance yourself out.

501
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,880
You lose that as part of the fire service as well.

502
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:51,480
You lose that side of your body, the parasympathetic side for the job that we do because we have

503
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,960
to be on call all the time.

504
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:55,880
You turn into your job.

505
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,480
Going home and being frustrated and not giving them the hug right away when you're walking

506
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,400
the door like, oh, I can't be dealing with this.

507
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:02,760
This is not me.

508
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:03,760
This is my job.

509
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:04,760
This is my background.

510
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:06,880
This is what I grew up with.

511
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,920
So it's up to me to change that story, but I couldn't access that really until last year,

512
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:11,920
I would say.

513
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,440
It was very tough for me to do that.

514
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,040
Still dealing with this, still make a progress.

515
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:20,240
But I think as we learn, certain people gravitate to that profession as well.

516
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,560
So certain people that have these, some issues always seem to want to go there because we

517
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:24,560
love to help people.

518
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,000
We're always missing something.

519
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,880
So we have to give it out to other people, if that makes sense.

520
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:30,880
No, it does.

521
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:31,880
It does.

522
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,920
There's a thing called ACE score.

523
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,480
So it's adverse childhood experiences score.

524
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,040
And I think it's from zero or one to 10.

525
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:48,120
And first responders and military and most incarcerated persons all have an ACE of six

526
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:49,580
or more.

527
00:30:49,580 --> 00:30:53,760
So what that means, and it makes perfect sense really.

528
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,920
If you're hurt and you curl into a ball in your life, obviously maybe you're going to

529
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:02,880
go down the depression, anxiety, maybe even addiction path.

530
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,200
But there's a lot of people that, I don't want that to happen to someone else.

531
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:11,000
And they haven't done the work on themselves yet, but they put the uniform on to be a protector.

532
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,060
And I think the other side of these professions is there's the excitement.

533
00:31:15,060 --> 00:31:21,200
You can't think about that shit if you're responding to structure fires or stabbing

534
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,200
or whatever it is.

535
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,320
It's this constant adrenaline that keeps you going.

536
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,080
But it seems to be about that 10 year mark.

537
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,480
If we have buried it, that's when it really starts rearing its ugly head.

538
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,080
Because I don't know if it's the same with you.

539
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,160
About 10 years is when fires became less exciting.

540
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,360
Like I love fires.

541
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:43,880
But what used to get my heart rate up as a rookie was, you almost didn't call it a fire

542
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:44,880
anymore.

543
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,220
It needs to be fully involved and people hanging out the windows.

544
00:31:48,220 --> 00:31:53,600
So I think there's another side of that is that the excitement serves as a way of keeping

545
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,260
you distracted from the things in your head.

546
00:31:56,260 --> 00:31:58,040
The problem is one day it won't anymore.

547
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,880
And that's why I think a lot of us struggle.

548
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,000
Yeah, I can attest to that.

549
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,200
More recently, I would say I still love going to jobs.

550
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,040
But again, not every job is good in my eyes anymore.

551
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:12,920
It's not exciting, like you said.

552
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:17,800
I think with experience, if you had oh shit moments, then the little things that a guy

553
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,620
who never had that before, it's different now.

554
00:32:20,620 --> 00:32:24,240
So 20 years in, it's like, this is this, this is that.

555
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:25,240
Not a big deal.

556
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,400
Again, I want to see it out like 10 windows.

557
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,280
Maybe I'll get a little charged up for that.

558
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:35,240
But it's still going to be calm and cool and collective as much as I can manage that.

559
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:36,520
That's my role, especially as a captain.

560
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:41,040
You have to maintain your sense of poise on the fire ground.

561
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:47,280
I think you said you start to reflect on yourself when you have that downtime.

562
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,240
I want, I like to get myself better.

563
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:52,240
I don't want to stay the same ever.

564
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,240
I think we have a short time here on this planet.

565
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,920
We're looking at it as a journey, not a final destination.

566
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:58,960
Like I'm just going to retire and that's it.

567
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,840
But at this point in my career, I am looking at what I can offer beyond that.

568
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,920
And going to go into the firehouse is still great.

569
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,320
The guys and girls are great.

570
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:09,680
I love going to work.

571
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:10,760
I just rather not.

572
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:16,360
I just rather not spend 100 hours a week in the firehouse responding to calls.

573
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:22,960
I think my purpose has now expanded and I want to help our population to heal from the

574
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,160
stuff that we've gone through.

575
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,920
I think we found some good methods to do that.

576
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,600
We're teaching it and it's working for me personally.

577
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,280
The last year I've gotten better connections with my family.

578
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,240
I'm physically feeling better and looking different.

579
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:37,560
I look different from last year.

580
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:38,560
I look different.

581
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:39,560
People are like, you look young.

582
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,560
I'm going to be 44 this year.

583
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:42,880
I'm 20 years on the fire service.

584
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,240
I changed in last year dramatically my training, my eating.

585
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,720
And I was able to do that through just releasing a lot of the baggage and then being able to

586
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,280
say, okay, where are we going now?

587
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,840
And then since then, it's been a nice series of events that have opened a lot of doors

588
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:58,840
for us.

589
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:03,400
So we hope to impact a lot of people through what we've experienced.

590
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:08,120
And like you said, I think earlier is sometimes people go through experiences and they don't

591
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:13,720
and myself included where it was traumatic and tragic, but you compare it to something

592
00:34:13,720 --> 00:34:16,540
else that it's like in your brain worse.

593
00:34:16,540 --> 00:34:20,220
So that's why you don't address it right away and you don't realize that it doesn't have

594
00:34:20,220 --> 00:34:22,020
to be a crazy situation.

595
00:34:22,020 --> 00:34:23,320
It just has to be your situation.

596
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:29,620
And it has to be that time in your life that it meets you and it has that impact.

597
00:34:29,620 --> 00:34:34,560
So it could be when an EMS run where you're dealing with a baby or something like that

598
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:40,640
or it could be a fire where you got life threatening or you went and got injured or something else

599
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:41,640
happened to someone.

600
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,460
I used to say, oh, I was never a veteran.

601
00:34:44,460 --> 00:34:48,760
So I don't know, my shit is not that bad.

602
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:54,040
But for me it was because it's really impacted me for about 15 years after that and I didn't

603
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,040
realize it.

604
00:34:55,040 --> 00:35:04,040
You think it's just you and you start to not understand who you are anymore as a person.

605
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,440
In this last year or so, I think I've said that question like, who really am I?

606
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,840
What do I really feel?

607
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:11,840
What makes me happy?

608
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:12,840
What makes me sad?

609
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:13,840
What gets me excited again?

610
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,280
What gives me purpose?

611
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,680
And those are the questions I was asking myself because I really thought to say, I don't even

612
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:24,480
know what I feel anymore because I haven't felt anything for a long time.

613
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,560
You don't realize you bury everything and then your emotions get put to the side.

614
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,040
So how do you even equate that to understanding yourself?

615
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:32,040
You don't.

616
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,040
You can't.

617
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,480
So now that you find that out, it's a lot to think about.

618
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:38,480
So that's another problem.

619
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:43,160
You have a lot of thoughts and you're kind of like, oh man, where am I here for?

620
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:44,160
What am I doing here?

621
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,400
Am I supposed to do 30 years in the fire service and just retire and go play golf?

622
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:48,400
Is that a bad thing?

623
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,440
Is it a good thing or is there more to it?

624
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:57,280
I think at this point I realized that there's a lot more to be done because we do have a

625
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,960
lot of people that have left the service and have a lot of problems and they're not able

626
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,240
to figure it out.

627
00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:05,160
And I think we're looking in the wrong places.

628
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,680
We're looking up here and we're not looking in here.

629
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:08,680
And this is where I live.

630
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:09,680
I live in the body.

631
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,480
I've been in physical for a long time and I think the more we go down that road, we

632
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,000
realize that the body is where you feel calm or you feel stressed.

633
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:22,080
It's not your brain, but it does affect everything because it's all connected, if that makes

634
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,080
sense.

635
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,080
Yeah, no, it does completely.

636
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,560
Well, you mentioned about an incident 15 years ago.

637
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:34,120
So before we dive into that, in this last 20 years, what were some of the career calls

638
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:41,400
that you've had and then let's take our journey to that one call that bothered you?

639
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:48,440
I think some of the things that stick out for me are very simply when you're in someone's

640
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,200
home and you're dealing with a child.

641
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:57,520
And I think one of the ones that really sticks out for me was actually when I was not working

642
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,440
on Staten Island, but I was detailed and we had a run for a kid and it tied together

643
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:03,440
with my mother.

644
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,160
She actually knew the family through work or something.

645
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:07,980
Maybe her brother went to the school.

646
00:37:07,980 --> 00:37:12,400
So she actually went to this kid's funeral and I worked on that kid.

647
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:18,680
I remember the father is screaming at just the top of his lungs, my Joey, my Joey, my

648
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,520
Joey as we bring him out of the house.

649
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,160
But that stuck with me forever.

650
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:24,160
That's never going away.

651
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:31,280
It still gives me a little bit of feeling, but I definitely got through that part of

652
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,560
it and that was one of the major events.

653
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,380
We had the incident in 2008, which was very big.

654
00:37:36,380 --> 00:37:40,600
As a young firefighter, going to fires was the best thing ever.

655
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:41,600
The best thing ever.

656
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,560
It's somebody's worst day though, that's the problem.

657
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,040
Looking at it from the adrenaline point and you're like, wow, we get to go to work, but

658
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:50,040
this is someone's home.

659
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,840
This is somebody's belongings.

660
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:57,320
A lot of those times, after you go through it and you're like, yeah man, high five because

661
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:58,320
we got the job done.

662
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:02,280
You look at people outside and they're like, this is their life.

663
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,200
So it does impact you.

664
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:06,680
It's like compassion fatigue.

665
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,240
Then you see them upset.

666
00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:12,440
Now you're getting like, oh man, let me try to save some stuff out of their house.

667
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,760
They're asking, can you get this thing?

668
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:16,600
This has all my photos in it.

669
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:21,120
So you go back and you try to make sure they have something that's very important to them.

670
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,040
Because it's not just, we can't look at it that way.

671
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,880
I tried to teach my guys, these are civilians.

672
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,080
You're there to help them.

673
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:33,440
You're not there to get old bravado even though that's what happens because your adrenaline

674
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,680
just goes through the roof and your heart rate's at like 180 beats a minute.

675
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,320
That's what you're there for, you're there to fight fires.

676
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,720
But on the other end, you have to make sure you don't destroy somebody's house for no

677
00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:44,720
reason.

678
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:45,720
That's number one.

679
00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:47,240
You have to be able to do it professionally.

680
00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:52,720
You have to understand that people are just people and your demeanor matters.

681
00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:58,880
So as we go along in this 2024 year when everybody's kind of jacked up and their anxiety's high

682
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:03,800
and they're working so many hours, a lot of times now currently I'm like, guys, don't

683
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,920
say that to that person.

684
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:07,400
That's not how we are supposed to...

685
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,440
You're upset about something and it's not this situation right here.

686
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,520
Because sometimes we get agitated at scenes and we're dealing with public people.

687
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,720
So we have to be very careful with that.

688
00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:17,560
I hope that answers your question.

689
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:18,560
Yeah.

690
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,200
Well, just to add on to what you said, this is one thing that really turns my stomach

691
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:27,320
when I see a lot of firefighters' social media accounts at the moment is exactly what you

692
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:28,320
said.

693
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,360
Like a bunch of guys leaning on pipe poles in front of someone's burned out house.

694
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,240
Firstly, it's a burned out house.

695
00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:34,480
You didn't fucking save it.

696
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:40,160
Secondly, that's someone's home and you're doing a selfie or an ussy in front of someone's

697
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:41,160
home.

698
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:42,200
We need to stop that shit.

699
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,680
That is so fucking disrespectful and inconsiderate.

700
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:46,680
Absolutely.

701
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:51,320
If a photographer took pictures of you at work while you were doing the job, that's

702
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,400
a whole different conversation.

703
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:59,080
But staging a picture in front of someone's tragedy, I think that's just disgusting.

704
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,120
Yeah.

705
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,440
We do that in the New York.

706
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:04,440
We do that in front of the rigs.

707
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,120
We'll come out and we'll do that.

708
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,720
I do agree with you to that point where it shouldn't be with the house and in front of

709
00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:12,760
people doing that.

710
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:18,680
I think for us though, it's also a memory of a job done together.

711
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:23,760
It's like a double-edged sword again with that where yes, it can be very tactless to

712
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:24,760
do that.

713
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,840
Again, you don't want to be anywhere near the homeowners or anything like that.

714
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,040
For us though, as our community, that's something that I think is ingrained and it's going to

715
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:37,360
be very hard to unwind that.

716
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:38,360
Double-edged sword, I would say.

717
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:39,360
Yeah.

718
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:40,360
I'm going to let you say it.

719
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:41,360
You got to be careful with that.

720
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:42,360
Yeah.

721
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:43,360
I think it's fine.

722
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,800
PIO takes some great shots, put it up on the firehouse, a thousand percent.

723
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:52,360
Just don't take a selfie in front of their home or their destroyed car where someone's

724
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:53,360
still crumpled inside.

725
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:54,360
You know what I mean?

726
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:55,360
For fuck's sake.

727
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:56,360
Yeah.

728
00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,640
I haven't seen that, which that's crazy, but if that really doesn't happen, that's just

729
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:01,640
nuts.

730
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:02,640
I don't know.

731
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,560
Whoever's in charge of that scene needs to talk to them because you have done that.

732
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:06,880
Hey, maybe we shouldn't do it right here.

733
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,520
These people are standing right here.

734
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:09,520
Let's not do that.

735
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,800
It's just a quick decision where it's like pay attention to what's going on around you.

736
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:14,800
Absolutely.

737
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:19,160
We are professionals, supposedly, so we have to back that way.

738
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,600
Even when we don't want to, it's important to put that out to the public.

739
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,880
You have to.

740
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,080
You mentioned about 2008, though.

741
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:29,480
Let's revisit that.

742
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:33,320
What was the origin story of that journey?

743
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:34,320
Yeah.

744
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,000
This was a fire that I remember being in the rig.

745
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:39,920
We were going to get the meal.

746
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,640
We were driving around, we were having laughs, and we get the call on the rig.

747
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:49,200
It's a high-rise, fireproof, multiple dwelling, call for fire on the 14th floor.

748
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,800
Regular, all right, let's go.

749
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,880
Pull up to the... It's the Abbey's Field where the old Brooklyn Dodgers used to play.

750
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:02,640
It's now a big 22-story complex, a couple of buildings there.

751
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:09,440
The first two engines goes up and they give it a 1075, smoke down in the stairwell, opens

752
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,280
the door, it's down, back down to the floor.

753
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,320
All right, we got a job, doors open to the apartment.

754
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,720
We have to get up, the elevators, we're going across the promenade, going up the building.

755
00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:21,880
By the time we get up there, they still haven't found the fire.

756
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,920
It's been a few minutes.

757
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:28,360
The problem with that job is the doorway is about 70 feet down the hallway.

758
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,520
Door was left open, so the cameras really weren't working too well with the T-hallways.

759
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,920
We were about 70 feet at all different corners, the guys trying to search for the apartment.

760
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:41,160
We were the third engine, so we are in charge of a second hand line in that type of building

761
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,320
on the standpipe.

762
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,440
Things got kind of wacky.

763
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,080
The second line was already stretched.

764
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,400
By the second engine, they would have been backing up the first line and those two engines

765
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,680
on a hose line, especially in the buildings.

766
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:58,440
That was one thing that went a little sideways, but that was old way of thinking where two

767
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:04,040
hand lines down the hallway to hit a wind-driven fire, wind-impacted fire.

768
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:08,760
They changed the terminology basically after this job from wind-driven to impacted, depending

769
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,280
on which way the wind was blowing.

770
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,120
We had to go down, try to check apartments, couldn't figure it out, trying to get coordination

771
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:21,160
from the roof guy who was above and us below to see which apartment this fire was in actually,

772
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:27,820
because it was minutes and minutes and minutes before they even located the right fire apartment.

773
00:43:27,820 --> 00:43:32,080
We had some issues with guys giving urgence, run out of air.

774
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,200
I do remember the first two engines coming out of the stairwell and making their way

775
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:36,200
out.

776
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,640
They got blown into the apartment when the window fell and the wind was coming in.

777
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:46,160
I saw guys I used to work with and I'm like, wow, these guys are charred, red faced, black

778
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,960
helmets and black tanks and black face pieces.

779
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,400
They're coming out stunned coming down the stairwell.

780
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:52,720
What the hell?

781
00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:55,440
We kind of got held up a little bit because it was a little bit chaotic up there.

782
00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:02,640
We had two trucks, squad, rescue, engine company, all on the fire floor.

783
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:06,720
Trying to figure out any accountability was a big thing then.

784
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:11,640
Our new radios have an EAB button, it's an orange button on the microphone.

785
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:16,360
At the time it was only on the unit that you wore on the strap, so that's under your coat.

786
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,280
So to hit an emergency button, you had to go under your coat with your gloves on, try

787
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:23,200
to go down your antenna, find this little orange button, push the button and then give

788
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,240
you transmission.

789
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:26,240
That happened obviously.

790
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:29,920
It only happens about 50% of the time now too with it up here.

791
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:37,480
So that's another training that I was involved in in 2015, search and mayday training that

792
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:38,480
we piloted.

793
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,960
It was about two years, we went to the fire houses to do that, to teach guys how to use

794
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:45,120
the button on the microphone and do search drills.

795
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:50,320
But going back to the stories, we were finally sent up after a few guys bailed out, some

796
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:55,720
were ordered to give in to go assume the line.

797
00:44:55,720 --> 00:45:01,760
When we got down to the fire department, there was a guy down, a lieutenant that I had worked

798
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:02,760
with.

799
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:03,760
At the time I didn't know who it was.

800
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,760
There was a gentleman in front of me, another firefighter who had gotten there about probably

801
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,480
10 to 20 seconds before I did, getting down to the nozzle.

802
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:13,960
And he's like, we got a guy down.

803
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:19,840
And now I have only about three and a half years of time, so a young firefighter still.

804
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,480
And it's just like, holy shit, this is not what I expected.

805
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:28,200
It was getting very hot, it's in wind and pack, you're going down the hallway, the line's

806
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:29,200
not operating.

807
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:35,160
The line was actually right in the doorway about six feet in under the sky.

808
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,960
And at the time, holy shit, we stopped pulling on him.

809
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:40,960
You go crazy immediately.

810
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:45,840
So just throw you out there, you're not going to remember right away what to do because

811
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,200
you're going to freak out first.

812
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:48,200
That's my experience.

813
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,240
And I would say that's common because it's a body's response to it.

814
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:52,240
It's like a fight or flight response.

815
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:56,440
Boom, like, holy shit, just grab this guy, we got to get this guy out of here.

816
00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:00,000
Now you start thinking, this isn't going to work because this guy's probably 300, 350

817
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:01,880
pounds in his gear.

818
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:02,880
And we're not pulling him like this.

819
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:08,400
Because you figure if you're 200 to 250 at 100 pounds, that's a fireman.

820
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,080
So you have a lot of dead weight right there.

821
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,760
So I went into the other side of him, now I'm in the apartment, his head's facing the

822
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:15,760
doorway.

823
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,120
I remember, all right, get the leg, pull one leg over shoulder.

824
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:20,120
This guy has to pull out the head.

825
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:21,120
We got to shimmy him out, right?

826
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:22,120
Get him out of here.

827
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,280
Somebody's got to give him a day.

828
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,760
I'm looking at the guy across from me because I know in my brain as a young firefighter,

829
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,400
he should know more than me.

830
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:31,400
He's got to do this.

831
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:32,720
It's not me, I'm the young guy.

832
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:34,360
I only got three years on.

833
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,640
So you immediately put yourself into place like where you say, well, I got three and

834
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,280
a half years is usually four years, right?

835
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,120
For firefighters, I got four years, right?

836
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,200
Because you always count up, right?

837
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,480
But at that time, now I don't have any time on.

838
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,080
This guy needs to take care of this.

839
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,120
So you're like, shit, he's not doing it.

840
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,760
Boom, give him a day.

841
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:57,880
Remember down in the apartment, chief heard it and back to getting this guy out as first

842
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,080
priority.

843
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:02,840
We had a couple extra hands come down the hallway, pushed him out of the apartment.

844
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,680
And then I just was like, where's the line?

845
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:11,440
Because now I got to get this guy out, which is like, I came a long way to get here, to

846
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,840
get this guy out of the hole in a hallway that you can't see anything in and is under

847
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:15,840
fire conditions.

848
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:16,880
It's going to be tough.

849
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:21,600
Let's get the line, open it up as an engineman, just to protect everybody else behind the

850
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:22,600
line, right?

851
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:26,440
Find the nozzle, I opened it up and it's basically a U-turn.

852
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:31,120
So as I go down the hallway, it's a U-turn into the apartment backwards to the fire room.

853
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,680
And so you're basically, you're not able to move that line unless you have help, right?

854
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:36,240
Because it's going right around the door block.

855
00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:40,280
It's coming back right back at you, a U-turn.

856
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:44,080
So I make it probably five feet to the doorway that leads to the hallway, which leads to

857
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:45,080
the fire room.

858
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:46,280
And I have to make a right hand turn.

859
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:50,200
It's blowing in, it's going out, it's blowing in, it's going out, it's doing one of those

860
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:51,200
jammies.

861
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:52,200
It wasn't fully wind driven at the time.

862
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,240
I actually remember I was the hottest I've ever been.

863
00:47:55,240 --> 00:47:59,240
And I just opened the nozzle against the wall and it's obviously doing nothing because I'm

864
00:47:59,240 --> 00:48:02,160
hitting the hallway and the fire room is now to the right.

865
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,120
I have to go that way.

866
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:05,120
Shut the nozzle down.

867
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:09,320
I start pulling the nozzle closed, thinking I can walk it into the hallway, you know,

868
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,320
without getting, you're not thinking clearly.

869
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,560
In the middle of the full path, like going right for the doorway, if I can just get those

870
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:20,120
extra three feet, I'll actually finish this job, you know?

871
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:21,440
And that was just crazy thinking.

872
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,040
So we winded up, a friend of mine comes around the corner to the room, looks at me, he's

873
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,680
like, your eyes look like an owl because I'm in my face piece.

874
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:28,680
Like, Mike, help me.

875
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:30,080
I'm like, I don't know what to do yet.

876
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:35,440
There's nobody else in the apartment, which is, that was the scariest part.

877
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,240
The scariest part is being on the fire and nobody there.

878
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:39,840
I kid you not.

879
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:45,680
Every job we go to, there's a hundred guys, staircases, everybody's going into this.

880
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:46,680
Everybody wants to be in there.

881
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:48,880
This guy's banging around everywhere, right?

882
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:50,560
That's a fact.

883
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,760
To be in there that far, that long, and there's nobody in that apartment, it was kind of like

884
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,160
I was on the other side of Allison in the Wonderland's mirror, where I was looking at

885
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,200
the other side and I'm like, what?

886
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,120
Because now I can see, because there's fire in there, it's like a little lighter, the

887
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:04,440
smoke's going down the hallway.

888
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,080
I'm like, there's not one person in here.

889
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:12,080
This is not a good place to be, I don't think, but you got to do your job.

890
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:17,800
We wanted to back it up, closing the door, regrouping, and finally, I guess the wind

891
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:19,640
changed, we got in.

892
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:20,720
I couldn't do anything after that.

893
00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:21,720
I was completely spent.

894
00:49:21,720 --> 00:49:26,040
I was just standing there in days.

895
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,120
I do remember standing up, though, like three feet off of where I was, and I was like, I

896
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:30,120
can actually tolerate this.

897
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:31,120
I should have just moved before, though.

898
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,720
I was like, you should have just moved out of the way, and then maybe you could have

899
00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:37,160
moved out in the line where you need to go.

900
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,480
That gentleman was Lieutenant John Martenson.

901
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,720
He went passing away.

902
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:48,720
It really was something I just... I didn't know I carried it for that long.

903
00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:52,240
I went to county putsching counseling right away.

904
00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:55,800
That morning I went home, dropped with my friend, and we drank wild vodka, like seven

905
00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:02,400
o'clock in the morning, eight o'clock in the morning, just like stunned, like what happened.

906
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:06,040
You're on the news, and you're like, I can't believe this guy died.

907
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:07,040
I can't believe it.

908
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:08,040
I can't believe it.

909
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:15,840
To put you out of medical leave, you go to counseling, talking to some counselor.

910
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:16,840
You don't know what I'm talking about.

911
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:21,280
I don't even know what I'm talking about yet, because it's the first two weeks of the day.

912
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:26,240
It wasn't for three months until I started to snap on guys at work, and I was starting

913
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:30,680
to feel very irritated all the time, and just angry about everything.

914
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,720
Couldn't joke anymore, I was like, you can't joke.

915
00:50:33,720 --> 00:50:36,440
This is a very serious job.

916
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,880
No more fun, for me anyway.

917
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:39,880
It was drinking.

918
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:40,880
It was a little excessive drinking.

919
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:49,200
Then you have the funeral, then you have the picnics, and you're talking to the wife and

920
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,240
the family.

921
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:55,880
They bring you over like, oh, here's his wife.

922
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:57,880
I'm like, oh God, I don't want to do this.

923
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,240
What am I going to say?

924
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:01,240
You know?

925
00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:02,240
What am I going to say?

926
00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:03,240
Try my best?

927
00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:04,240
Then there's guilt.

928
00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:05,240
There's years of guilt.

929
00:51:05,240 --> 00:51:07,800
Should have gotten there sooner.

930
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:08,920
Could have did this, could have did that.

931
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:16,600
I think it was in the recordings, he gave an out of air, one out of air on the recording,

932
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,120
and it was about four minutes until I got to the May Day, 45 minutes.

933
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:21,120
There's no way.

934
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,280
There's no way we were making that.

935
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,240
But you're telling yourself you could have done it better.

936
00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:28,840
Somebody should have let us go sooner.

937
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,080
That was a stupid decision.

938
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:32,080
I knew something was wrong.

939
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,240
I had that gut feeling like, this is bad.

940
00:51:35,240 --> 00:51:37,640
I just saw the engine leave.

941
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:40,440
The other engine is right here.

942
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:41,440
Who's on the line?

943
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,600
There's nobody backing them up.

944
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:44,600
Nobody's got the knowledge right now.

945
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:45,600
There's guys up there.

946
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:46,600
What are we doing here?

947
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:47,600
Let's go.

948
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:55,200
But because of the chaos, the chief is, let me account for people before I send more people.

949
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:56,200
That's a smart move.

950
00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:02,880
Unfortunately, for me, it turned into years of me just holding that guilt on probably

951
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:07,240
four or five years until I thought I let it go.

952
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:09,920
I thought I kind of moved on.

953
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:12,520
Maybe I was just because I was distracted with other things.

954
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:19,680
I got promoted, I went on in life, fitness unit, a lot of stuff, a lot of projects, kids,

955
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:21,720
marriage, divorce, craziness.

956
00:52:21,720 --> 00:52:28,200
It really wasn't until I went through the training with Dr. Bricelli and I had that

957
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,480
release and I immediately knew what it was.

958
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,640
I immediately knew what it was.

959
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,720
It was the strangest thing I've ever felt, I would say.

960
00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:42,520
My eye color changed, which is another crazy fact that happened.

961
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,200
They got more blue.

962
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:49,120
He says to me, he goes, Dr. Bricelli goes, he's got my head like this.

963
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:55,440
He pitched me on the floor and we went through this TRE and now I get this release, it's

964
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:56,440
flooding.

965
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:00,280
It's called the flooding diaphragm, starts to pulsate and all of a sudden people laugh.

966
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:06,640
I have a great shot of my friend smiling at me, my typical fire department.

967
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:12,640
I'm on the floor like this and he's just looking at me on the floor like, look at this guy.

968
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,760
We didn't know what that was.

969
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:20,200
I didn't know what that was until it immediately stopped and I go, holy shit, that was 15 years

970
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:21,200
ago.

971
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:22,200
That was that.

972
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:31,240
Then the next... I actually kept going and I had that Joey event because when you have

973
00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:34,640
that release, the thought that comes in your brain is it.

974
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:36,480
It's not a coincidence.

975
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:37,480
It is it.

976
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,080
Why did I think of that right when that happened?

977
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:41,320
That was coming out of my body.

978
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:46,760
That was stored in my tissue in the body forever because as soon as I saw him, my body went

979
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,520
holy shit and it has it.

980
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:53,120
Now everything else after that, the guilt, that just adds on layers and layers and layers

981
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,760
of that tension because you're reliving it constantly.

982
00:53:56,760 --> 00:54:00,280
When you drill out the firehouse, when you read the report, you're reading the line of

983
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:04,920
duty reports, you're reliving it constantly in your body.

984
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,600
Counseling up here isn't really going to affect down here.

985
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:08,600
This will affect this.

986
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:12,200
If the body will affect the mind more, I think, then the mind will affect the body because

987
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:13,920
we hold everything here.

988
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,000
When we have anxiety and tension, what do we feel?

989
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:17,800
Stomach ache, heart rate goes up.

990
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:22,200
It's a physical thing that happens to us.

991
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:26,800
Anytime the tones go off, your heart rate jumps up.

992
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:31,000
Three o'clock in the morning.

993
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,260
This is what's been going on to us forever.

994
00:54:33,260 --> 00:54:34,920
Even every run, just having that response.

995
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,400
Now it's constantly dripping on you.

996
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:42,320
How much tension are you holding in your body from that stress alone, the chronic stress,

997
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:46,920
never mind the traumatic events that pop up or the things that you specifically impact?

998
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:51,720
Because 10 feet behind me were all the people in that hallway.

999
00:54:51,720 --> 00:54:56,880
My experience was completely different from the guy 10 feet behind me.

1000
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:57,880
That's what it different.

1001
00:54:57,880 --> 00:54:58,880
We teach that when we search too.

1002
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:02,200
Hey, if you could hear somebody in the hallway, you're not alone.

1003
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:03,200
Just move that way.

1004
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:04,200
Your situation might be better.

1005
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:10,280
If you're out of the flow path two feet to the right, you'll feel a difference in temperature.

1006
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:14,320
Your perception, that's what I say, it doesn't matter if you've gone through something and

1007
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:17,760
it's like, ah, it wasn't that bad, but you're still affected by it.

1008
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,400
For me, that event was life-altering.

1009
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,800
I just didn't realize it how much until now.

1010
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:29,440
This is going pretty deep, but honestly, to release it, you kind of tie it all together

1011
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:31,280
again and say, wow.

1012
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:35,680
Maybe all that stress I've been under, this is a big component of it.

1013
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:38,880
Ever since then, I've been tracking forward.

1014
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:39,880
It's been wild.

1015
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:40,880
It's been wild.

1016
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,080
That's all I can say.

1017
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:44,440
We're doing things now because of that.

1018
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:49,720
That's the only reason why we're here talking about TRE and getting initiatives going in

1019
00:55:49,720 --> 00:55:54,000
this department and then looking at our retirees and talking to counseling services about what's

1020
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,480
going on and how their staff is overwhelmed and how there's so many people looking for

1021
00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:00,240
services and help.

1022
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:01,320
We're in the right spot right now.

1023
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:02,320
We're supposed to be here.

1024
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,760
We had to learn some lessons to get here though.

1025
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:12,440
I want to get to TRE and your pendulum swing back to exceptional health, but just before

1026
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:17,280
we do, from a firefighter perspective, what were the lessons learned from that line of

1027
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:22,760
duty death, if any?

1028
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:29,520
I could say we have to be accountable for each other.

1029
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,800
We have to definitely be accountable for each other.

1030
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:36,760
There's a lot of training that we've gone through, especially as firefighters, because

1031
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:41,680
a lot of times the issue is the officers have to maintain accountability for everyone.

1032
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:47,480
What we've been taught into the academies and everything is when somebody's missing,

1033
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:50,520
even if you have to look for the officer, this happens over and over again.

1034
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:56,920
That's where the officer is the one that dies because people aren't looking for him or her.

1035
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,320
We're supposed to be the ones looking for everybody else.

1036
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,560
I want my guys to know, listen, if you don't see me, there's a problem.

1037
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:05,320
Someone needs to say something.

1038
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,840
I know I can keep on... All I'm doing constantly is looking with my guys.

1039
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:09,840
Who's where?

1040
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:10,840
What's going on?

1041
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:15,360
Because as a captain, you're responsible for everyone.

1042
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:17,000
So a lot of it's the reversal.

1043
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:21,800
Firefighters getting the training and the information to look for the officer.

1044
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:25,200
That's a lot of times what happens is the officer is the one that goes down.

1045
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:31,760
We just had a mess in my firehouse for a lieutenant 10 years ago, passed away.

1046
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,440
He's in a room, he got isolated and ultimately he died.

1047
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:37,720
It happens over and over again.

1048
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:42,560
That's one lesson that always pay attention to everyone who is around you, no matter what

1049
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:43,560
rank you are.

1050
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,760
Know who you're going in the door with and know who you got to come out with.

1051
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,720
That's number one.

1052
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:51,200
Sometimes you can't control it.

1053
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,480
Sometimes you're not in control.

1054
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,680
You might think you are, you might think you got it, you might think you could have done

1055
00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:00,280
something, but most of the times you probably couldn't have done, made that big of a difference.

1056
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:01,800
Because it's usually too late.

1057
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:03,400
I found that out the hard way.

1058
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:07,480
Even knowing the timeframe, the time domains of when things happen, you're like, no, we

1059
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:09,160
could have gotten there faster.

1060
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:13,560
That's just your guilt because you don't want to fail.

1061
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:17,360
We have to... Unfortunately, when we fail, people die.

1062
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:19,280
We don't get the job done.

1063
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:21,960
That's why we have all of the equipment we have now.

1064
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,400
Everything's built on our failures.

1065
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:25,400
We have to fail forward.

1066
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:29,080
We have to learn from those mistakes so we don't repeat the same line of duty deaths.

1067
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:31,360
We can't have the same issues at fires.

1068
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,240
We have to get better.

1069
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:35,480
Training goes hand in hand with that.

1070
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:40,240
Unfortunately, it goes on the backs of people that pass away or get seriously injured.

1071
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:45,120
I think the department is doing a great job with getting information out quicker and more

1072
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:49,760
readily available to the field so we can look at these things as they occur.

1073
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:56,920
We had an overhead collapse recently and the next day there's an information sheet on our

1074
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:57,920
arm.

1075
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:02,240
Anytime things go down right now in the city, we have readily available just tips coming

1076
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:04,560
out and people are reading it with drilling on it.

1077
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:09,440
So innately, we are learning from our experiences.

1078
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:19,320
The last thing I would say with the 2008 would be that we're all put in position for a reason.

1079
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,320
As I look back, that reason is now.

1080
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,680
What we're doing now, I had to go through that.

1081
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:30,400
I had to recover from that to see that there's a way or a method that some people just don't

1082
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:31,600
know about yet.

1083
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:33,600
I think that's one of the biggest lessons.

1084
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:37,080
Nobody knows about this stuff that we're doing.

1085
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:43,320
It's physically and mentally affecting people to put a positive, which I love, which I can

1086
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:44,320
attest to.

1087
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:49,800
We spoke down the path of this ahead of everyone because it's a year of me messing around with

1088
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:53,160
this and seeing how this works with the body.

1089
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:54,160
It just sprung into action.

1090
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:58,040
A lot of these other ideas, we have retirees coming out, we spoke to them.

1091
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:02,760
We have opportunities that are opening up that people are suffering silently.

1092
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:04,760
I've suffered silently for a long time.

1093
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:09,920
I've dealt with a lot and I could say honestly that yes, I have dealt with a lot even though

1094
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:11,600
I might say, well, it was not bad.

1095
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:17,200
That's a little on your shoulder saying, you didn't go through that, but that's not about

1096
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:18,200
that.

1097
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:22,800
If you've gone through a family upheaval, a divorce, if you've gone through alcohol

1098
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:28,840
abuse, something like that, if you've gone through trauma, if you work constantly, if

1099
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:34,280
you're not sleeping, your body's getting destroyed and you're just walking around like that.

1100
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:38,760
I was walking around trying to work out, trying to be the health guy, trying to... I felt

1101
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:39,960
like shit almost every day.

1102
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,000
I had something going on with my body every day.

1103
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:46,000
I would push ahead, push ahead, push ahead because that's what you do.

1104
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:49,080
You just kind of get the job done no matter what.

1105
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:50,080
That's how we are.

1106
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:53,120
That's that sympathetic state you're living in constantly.

1107
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,240
Then you're not realizing that maybe I'm doing too much.

1108
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:57,520
Maybe less is more.

1109
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:59,160
Maybe I need to get smarter at what I'm doing.

1110
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:04,000
Maybe I have to find new procedures and protocols for myself and let me see how that works rather

1111
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:08,960
than just kind of beat my head against the wall constantly in fitness per se.

1112
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:09,960
That's what we do.

1113
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:14,400
If we work out three times a day every day, we're not going to recover, but you think

1114
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,080
you're going to get in better shape.

1115
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,080
It doesn't equal.

1116
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:20,080
Absolutely.

1117
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:25,360
Well, I've been very aware of the book, The Body Keeps the Score, and understanding that

1118
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:28,960
trauma is held in the physical side.

1119
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:36,040
Definitely heard so many stories of everything from CrossFit to hiking to fishing, whatever

1120
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:37,040
it is.

1121
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,760
It's an exercise element of down regulating.

1122
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,720
Again, in CrossFit, you've got to be very careful of when you're doing it, for example.

1123
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:45,680
But it's only talking to you.

1124
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:49,040
Funny enough, a few days later, someone else mentioned it that I'd ever heard of trauma

1125
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,040
release exercises specifically.

1126
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:54,360
Walk me through how you even came across that.

1127
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:58,840
I'd love to hear your personal experience, and then let's walk through what you're

1128
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:00,920
doing now for FDNY.

1129
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:02,200
Yeah.

1130
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:03,200
This is the point.

1131
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,560
The point is that you never heard about it.

1132
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:09,360
We don't hear about it because it's not a normal thing to do.

1133
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:10,960
Shaking on the ground.

1134
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:17,120
Trauma release exercises is a neurogenic tremor of your body that is innate in your DNA.

1135
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:22,880
You're taught how to activate that to help the nervous system relax back into a parasympathetic

1136
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:23,880
state.

1137
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:25,520
Plain and simple.

1138
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:28,680
How this came up was probably back in February of last year.

1139
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:33,800
I remember there was a specific day that, again, tightness in the body, tightness for

1140
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:36,520
years, just like, all right, this is the way it is.

1141
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:37,520
Running was difficult.

1142
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:39,280
It was getting more difficult.

1143
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,160
I also was going through some things with my ex-wife.

1144
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,520
I'm still dealing with some things in a legal sense.

1145
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:48,960
I had some increases in job demands with the academy and things that happened there.

1146
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:53,400
I had a death of a probationary firefighter, Vinnie Malvo.

1147
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:55,320
We had to go through that.

1148
01:02:55,320 --> 01:03:02,040
We have issues with seeing candidates having rhabdomyolysis in the academy and then investigation.

1149
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:05,680
So there's a lot of upheaval and people looking at what we're doing a lot more.

1150
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:09,800
So even though we're squared away in our training and we're very to the point that we have a

1151
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:12,040
lot of data sets, it was very stressful.

1152
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:14,840
So I think there was a culmination of things happening.

1153
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:16,320
And I was at work.

1154
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:22,120
I had to go and be acting Italian chief for the day, which is a higher rank than I have

1155
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:23,120
currently.

1156
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:27,080
I did some heavy deadlifts in the morning at the firehouse quickly before I went.

1157
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:31,120
And I think I went a little too heavy on one of them, about 10 pounds over where my goal

1158
01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:33,040
was and I lifted that last lift.

1159
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:36,640
And I remember really straining, not popping anything, not really injuring myself.

1160
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:38,160
I was like, wow, that was a tough lift.

1161
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:40,680
And I was like, I'm done.

1162
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:44,320
And when I'm having like a third or fourth alarm that I was an all hands chief at running

1163
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:48,320
around, so now my mental side is going crazy because I'm trying to do this job that I'm

1164
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:49,960
not really comfortable with.

1165
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:53,280
But I know what I'm doing and I'm like, okay, this is like a long drawn out operation.

1166
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:56,520
You're wearing a mask for like three hours straight, four hours.

1167
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:58,240
And then my back is like killing me, right?

1168
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:01,400
So let me take a couple of days off and a foam roll.

1169
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:04,080
I'll relax, I'll stretch, I'll do yoga, whatever.

1170
01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:08,240
And that started to like, a couple of days later, I'm like, oh, it doesn't feel like

1171
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:09,240
it's getting any better.

1172
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:10,240
Now it's getting hard to sleep.

1173
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:12,680
Getting out of my car was tough.

1174
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:17,120
And for two months, I'm trying to unlock myself and nothing's working.

1175
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:25,520
I'm not even TRE yet, but the myofascial release, getting massage, doing whatever I had to do.

1176
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:28,560
Couldn't run, couldn't squat, couldn't lift, putting my back.

1177
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:29,560
I was like destroyed.

1178
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:30,800
Couldn't get in out of my gear.

1179
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:33,840
I had to like hold onto the wall and put my boots on.

1180
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:34,840
That's like the thing.

1181
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:35,840
And again, we forge ahead.

1182
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:37,960
Like, because I'm not, I was still in the academy.

1183
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:40,000
I'm out of the firehouse.

1184
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:44,720
To me to go sick would be a problem because like we're in the, I just can't, in my brain,

1185
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:49,720
I'm a person that people rely on and I'm not going to just worry about myself.

1186
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,000
I'm going to push through this.

1187
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:55,040
So I had the academy coming up and I knew I'd be out of the firehouse where I can kind

1188
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:59,480
of hopefully recoup and recover.

1189
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,040
Lieutenant of mine, Adrian Cabane came up.

1190
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:04,280
Lieutenant Anthony Sanantini came up to join me in that class.

1191
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:06,600
So we formed our officer unit that way.

1192
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:11,820
One of my lieutenants, John Callie, was injured and he was going through some stuff too.

1193
01:05:11,820 --> 01:05:12,820
So we needed to fill some spots.

1194
01:05:12,820 --> 01:05:17,520
And when these guys came together, Adrian is a really good guy to have as our personal

1195
01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:18,600
PT.

1196
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:20,440
So he, I'm like, dude, my back's killing me.

1197
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:26,600
And this guy is a massage driver, 20 years, does cupping, does muscle scraping, all that

1198
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:27,880
stuff that nobody talks about.

1199
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:29,600
And I'm like, you got to fix me.

1200
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:31,440
I was like, put every cup on my body right now.

1201
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:32,440
I can't do anything.

1202
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:34,120
I'm really in a lot of pain.

1203
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:35,120
This is killing me.

1204
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:36,120
Can't play with my kids.

1205
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:41,560
I had to hold my breath to get in and out of my car and up and down from chairs.

1206
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:45,200
That pressure in the pelvic region was what I was feeling.

1207
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:50,080
If you could just picture yourself with that, like, Jesus, just loosen up.

1208
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,760
Everyone was working.

1209
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:54,960
So he's like, all right, you got no circulation.

1210
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:56,520
So you got a lot of stress.

1211
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:57,520
I'm like, stress?

1212
01:05:57,520 --> 01:05:58,520
He striped my back with his thumb.

1213
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:02,280
He's like, you have white stripes up and down your back.

1214
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:04,200
And I looked at it and I'm like, what's your stress?

1215
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:06,080
I'm like, I don't know, maybe.

1216
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:08,360
And then I looked back at my injury history.

1217
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:09,360
Last year, my neck went.

1218
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:10,360
I had two bulging discs.

1219
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:11,720
I couldn't turn my head for a few months.

1220
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:12,720
I was out of work.

1221
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:17,000
I had to get PT to get back, work myself out, okay.

1222
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:21,880
Year before that was a knee injury, year before that was plant fasciitis, which probably caused

1223
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:22,880
a knee injury, right?

1224
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:27,440
So now you go backwards and go forward, like, oh, that was that, this was that.

1225
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:33,160
Things at work were getting intense, still dealing with 10 years of stuff post-divorce,

1226
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:34,840
scheduling issues.

1227
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:41,000
That alone is completely crazy, the legal system and like parenting to different homes.

1228
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:44,000
This actually is something with my daughter too that comes up with TRE.

1229
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:49,200
When I speak on that, we started doing a little bit with her as well.

1230
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:54,480
So all of the things you say, wow, this is why I do have like a lot of stress, apparently.

1231
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:56,640
Maybe this is the root cause of what I'm feeling.

1232
01:06:56,640 --> 01:07:01,840
It's not just the deadlift or not just the injury, like the job or not just this neck

1233
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:03,320
injury last year.

1234
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:05,400
These things are all tied together.

1235
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:08,200
And if you go back history, say, wow, I've been through a lot of stuff.

1236
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:11,320
Maybe my body is keeping a lot of this tension in me.

1237
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:16,080
So he mentions the TRE as one of the things he learned about.

1238
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:20,880
And we started to just shake on the floor, like surface level, no training.

1239
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:23,040
So a couple of videos on it.

1240
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:24,040
It looks weird.

1241
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:25,520
Like some people's legs are shaking on the ground.

1242
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:27,380
I don't know what this is.

1243
01:07:27,380 --> 01:07:30,960
So we started to do a little bit of that, I guess, you know, 10 minutes a day, I would

1244
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:31,960
say.

1245
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:33,960
And it was about a week and a week and a half later, I was like, I'm going to do this every

1246
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:34,960
day.

1247
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:35,960
Let me see what happens.

1248
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:37,800
Let me just, cause I need to, I need to get this pain away.

1249
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:38,800
I got to move about.

1250
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:41,520
I was going to quit being the head of the fitness unit.

1251
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:42,520
I couldn't move.

1252
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:43,520
I'm like, how do I do this?

1253
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:45,760
Like, how do I run these probationary firefighters?

1254
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:50,280
How do I come off as a captain in this unit if I can't even put a bar on my back and squat?

1255
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:51,760
Like it just doesn't make sense to me.

1256
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:52,760
I was like, I can't do it.

1257
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:56,040
And I think a lot of that was just the emotional side being compressed.

1258
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:58,120
I'm like, I wanted to give up.

1259
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:02,840
Like where you're so just in a bad spot, you don't want to go forward anymore.

1260
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:05,800
I was giving up.

1261
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:09,040
A week and a half later, I was about 50% better in the movement of my back.

1262
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:11,360
I was like, holy shit.

1263
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:14,360
This stuff is opening me up.

1264
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:17,640
And I don't know how, I don't know why, but I'm shaking 10 minutes a day.

1265
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:18,640
My legs are moving.

1266
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:19,640
Nothing else is moving.

1267
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:20,640
I'm frozen.

1268
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:23,080
My upper body, everything.

1269
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:24,800
And I go, this is interesting.

1270
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:25,800
I feel better.

1271
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:26,800
I feel better.

1272
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,400
Yes, let's look into this.

1273
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:35,800
And we pitched it as and proposed it to the job as a new training for the fitness unit

1274
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:40,280
at first to say, hey, we want every year I try to get certifications for our guys, different

1275
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:43,880
information, keep continuing education, that type of stuff.

1276
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:46,680
It has to go through our fire foundation because there's really no budget.

1277
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:50,920
So we have to do proposals and we have to get funding if they approve it or not.

1278
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:54,720
So really it's like the sale of it has to be a good reason.

1279
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:57,440
And I didn't really know how to explain CRE.

1280
01:08:57,440 --> 01:09:01,880
Adrian was fairly well versed, but he also didn't complete the course.

1281
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:06,000
Something happened with his provider that maybe she got ill and he couldn't finish the

1282
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:07,000
whole course.

1283
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:10,320
So he had a good amount of information just from that one person that he trained with.

1284
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:14,840
We're like, let's call Dr. Bricelli and get him in personally because he's the guy who

1285
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:16,240
started this whole thing.

1286
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:20,640
Learned about his journey over the decades of TRE and where he was and how he kind of

1287
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:22,360
came up with this whole process.

1288
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:24,360
It was very interesting.

1289
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:26,240
We were able to get it funded.

1290
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:31,040
We have six providers, global providers now, that went through a training with Dr. Bricelli

1291
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:36,360
and then had to continually... We went about six months beyond that to finally get all

1292
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:38,160
of us fully certified.

1293
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:46,920
And that comes through Zooms and videoing yourself with working on people with TRE.

1294
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:47,920
There's a lot of safety protocols.

1295
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:52,400
There's some contraindications like epilepsy or stuff like that.

1296
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:57,440
You can't make yourself seize basically when you have seizure issues.

1297
01:09:57,440 --> 01:10:00,360
So there's a few of those things, but nothing really that would affect firefighters.

1298
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:03,400
Like schizophrenia, we shouldn't be firefighters if we have that.

1299
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:07,680
So it should be fine for us to use on ourselves.

1300
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:15,280
During our training is when I had that release of 2008 and some other stuff that came out.

1301
01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:20,480
And that's when I felt different completely after that because I was feeling better and

1302
01:10:20,480 --> 01:10:24,080
I was gradual, but nothing was moving in my body besides my legs.

1303
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:28,080
And when you do TRE, sometimes we see that it's not full body tremors.

1304
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:30,800
You can look online at a lot of videos of people doing that.

1305
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:32,600
But it's a weird thing to see.

1306
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:35,760
It's a weird thing to feel because you're not controlling it.

1307
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:38,400
And as a fire service, you're a control freak.

1308
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:40,200
You're going to control chaos.

1309
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:44,520
So your body starts shaking and you're like, you're thinking, am I doing that?

1310
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:48,360
Maybe I don't like this because I'm not the one physically doing this.

1311
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:49,840
This is weird.

1312
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:53,920
So you have to understand that it's okay to feel that way, but it's good for your body

1313
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:57,680
because it's your own body trying to work itself through the tension patterns that you've

1314
01:10:57,680 --> 01:10:59,640
developed all the time.

1315
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:00,640
That's all it is.

1316
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:01,800
It's sending signals through the nervous system.

1317
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:06,120
It creates a vibration and the vibration, I just like, it's like shaking out the shit.

1318
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:07,840
Shake it off.

1319
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:13,360
That's what the fire tribe, our nonprofit, we do the shake it off on the shirts because

1320
01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:15,200
you have to be able to relate to firefighters.

1321
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:16,200
Just shake it off, man.

1322
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:17,200
Whatever.

1323
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:18,200
Shake it off.

1324
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:19,200
So now it's for real.

1325
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:24,080
If you learn how to do this, your body can rebalance itself over time.

1326
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:28,720
You can lighten the layers of tension that you've accumulated in all aspects of your

1327
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:32,920
life, which is why it's important because we're not only dealing with trauma on the

1328
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:33,920
job.

1329
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:36,280
Like I said before, it could be something from your childhood, could be something in

1330
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:38,400
your marriage, could be something with your kids.

1331
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:42,440
My daughter was diagnosed with autism in 18 months.

1332
01:11:42,440 --> 01:11:44,440
I didn't want to believe it.

1333
01:11:44,440 --> 01:11:48,640
We had to go through the help at home and the therapies.

1334
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:57,720
She's high functioning, not physically disabled, but it was not talking until she was five.

1335
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,240
The stimulation stems, the anxiety now.

1336
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:02,380
Then we have a divorce, which now she's back and forth.

1337
01:12:02,380 --> 01:12:06,720
So it's hard to have consistency there as well.

1338
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:08,780
And I saw her anxiety level go up.

1339
01:12:08,780 --> 01:12:11,320
Now we have three maniac little kids here as well.

1340
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:17,200
So she comes here, it's like so much input versus just with mom, where it's more of a

1341
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:18,200
dude.

1342
01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:19,200
I can see the difference.

1343
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:20,720
I'm like, I need to help my daughter.

1344
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:24,840
So part of it learning this process for me has helped me work with her as well.

1345
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:30,200
She's made some progress herself, which helps her to kind of alleviate coming here and feeling

1346
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:32,440
like I got to stay in my room all the time and be antisocial.

1347
01:12:32,440 --> 01:12:36,600
Because a lot of that is what happens when she gets to my house.

1348
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:39,720
It's going from quiet to chaos.

1349
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:42,520
But we get to manage chaos better if we're better.

1350
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:47,260
And when we did the TRE training with Dr. Selle, it was like, that was when I realized

1351
01:12:47,260 --> 01:12:50,620
how much that would work for us.

1352
01:12:50,620 --> 01:12:53,800
So we started to bring all the people in.

1353
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:55,600
Those people had positive experiences.

1354
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:58,760
They were like, well, we should probably do this more.

1355
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:05,780
We had the opportunity to work a TRE workshop into the Office of Professional Development

1356
01:13:05,780 --> 01:13:06,780
in the health side.

1357
01:13:06,780 --> 01:13:10,440
This is a new office that was developed through the fire commissioner.

1358
01:13:10,440 --> 01:13:15,440
And we were taking the TRE workshop as part of the health piece.

1359
01:13:15,440 --> 01:13:16,440
And it was phenomenal.

1360
01:13:16,440 --> 01:13:21,880
It was going to be put into not just TRE, but the postural reintegration through myofascial

1361
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:27,440
release and some other tools, cardiovascular information protocols.

1362
01:13:27,440 --> 01:13:30,320
Nobody knows even what zones they have to work in half the time.

1363
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:35,280
So for stress and resiliency, zone two as a base is for your cardiovascular system,

1364
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:39,880
for your conditioning, for your entrance and exit runs, just for your job function.

1365
01:13:39,880 --> 01:13:41,600
Your high intensity is something different.

1366
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:47,440
But for zone two, if you include more of that, you do more foam rolling, you do TRE, now

1367
01:13:47,440 --> 01:13:51,120
you start to bring the body back down where it needs to be and rebalance it.

1368
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:55,000
And that helps you to alleviate the stress, not only that you have it on right now and

1369
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:58,680
in the future, but also unpacking a lot of that stuff that you might be carrying.

1370
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:02,320
And again, it could be from anywhere because your body, it doesn't know if you're at a

1371
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:08,360
fire or if somebody's going to run and beat you up or if your parents, you're going to

1372
01:14:08,360 --> 01:14:09,360
get beat by an adult.

1373
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:13,360
If you're going to get molested as a kid, you don't know that.

1374
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:14,360
It's an autonomic response.

1375
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:18,840
And that's, I kind of want to keep it simple because I don't understand the science as

1376
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:23,320
much, but I know that if the body responds, the body's going to get rid of it.

1377
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:28,040
And when we think, we feel a certain way, we're not thinking what we're feeling, we're

1378
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:29,040
feeling what we're feeling.

1379
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:30,760
This is buried in us.

1380
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:34,800
So the release of that was the ha ha moment.

1381
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:38,480
People started coming in, working with us and they're just like, holy shit.

1382
01:14:38,480 --> 01:14:42,720
I'd never felt anything like that.

1383
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:44,680
Let's do it for everybody.

1384
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:48,400
Let's do it for everybody because there's people walking around, like I was, not talking

1385
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:54,640
about shit, grinning and bearing it, piling it on, packing it down until you kill yourself

1386
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:58,720
or until you drink yourself into oblivion or until you figure out a way to get that

1387
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:02,200
out with, maybe I'm gambling every day now.

1388
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:08,440
Maybe there's coping mechanism that aren't good for us, that we do anyway.

1389
01:15:08,440 --> 01:15:14,120
Because there's where our outlets, some of it's like competitive running.

1390
01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:15,120
That's the same thing.

1391
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:20,080
You're getting going way beyond things to kind of forget about what you're feeling.

1392
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:22,840
And then you turn it into something positive, like exercising a lot like we did.

1393
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:26,440
Like we work out all the time, work out all the time, just work out.

1394
01:15:26,440 --> 01:15:30,400
It's not the best thing for us all the time, but it's the way for us to say, I'm going

1395
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:31,400
to go for a run.

1396
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:34,120
I'd rather go lift this thing because you're trying not to feel the shit.

1397
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:38,100
You might be resurfacing a little bit, but you have to go through the process.

1398
01:15:38,100 --> 01:15:39,100
You have to heal.

1399
01:15:39,100 --> 01:15:42,680
You have to get it out in order to go forward in life and really understand what you're

1400
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:43,680
here for.

1401
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:47,360
Because you don't really know yourself because you've been disconnected for such a long time,

1402
01:15:47,360 --> 01:15:49,600
especially if you've been on a long time.

1403
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:54,080
And then if you retire, you not only lost yourself, you lost your community.

1404
01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:58,320
Now you're like six months later, the firehouse goes on and everybody's like, ah, and then

1405
01:15:58,320 --> 01:16:00,400
this guy, what do I do now?

1406
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:01,760
And we have a lot of that going on.

1407
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:02,760
And I know you know that.

1408
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:05,800
You have a lot of issues post retirement.

1409
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:09,880
So what are our methods of helping?

1410
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:10,880
Go to counseling.

1411
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:11,880
Here's a counselor.

1412
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:12,880
Here's a meditate.

1413
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:16,560
How can I meditate if I'm in pain every day?

1414
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:20,680
If I have this nagging back pain, how can I sit here and be calm?

1415
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:22,280
It's like, ah, it's a thing.

1416
01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:25,040
Or if somebody texts me like, oh, you have a million things going on in your life.

1417
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:26,040
That's going to be very difficult.

1418
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:29,440
You're living outside of your body constantly.

1419
01:16:29,440 --> 01:16:30,440
You're living in an outside world.

1420
01:16:30,440 --> 01:16:31,440
You're on your phone.

1421
01:16:31,440 --> 01:16:32,440
You're at work.

1422
01:16:32,440 --> 01:16:33,440
You're doing kid stuff.

1423
01:16:33,440 --> 01:16:36,320
You don't even know who you are, what you're feeling anymore unless you come back and say,

1424
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:40,080
I need time to put in to my own self-help.

1425
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:42,280
I got to take care of my three feet first.

1426
01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:46,800
Like this was the analogy of putting your oxygen mask on first on the plane.

1427
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:48,280
This is the first step.

1428
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:54,280
If you can regulate yourself and be that personal balance, then you could be that for your kids.

1429
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:55,520
You could be that for your wife or husband.

1430
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:58,480
You could be that at work, for your team, for your crew.

1431
01:16:58,480 --> 01:17:00,200
You can be that throughout.

1432
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:02,240
Who you are is who you are.

1433
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:06,520
I'm in a gym right now because I literally come in here all the time.

1434
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:07,520
I work in the gym.

1435
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:08,880
I'm at the Yelp Park Academy gym.

1436
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:09,880
I'm in my gym.

1437
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:10,880
I go to the park.

1438
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:13,440
I turn into a gym.

1439
01:17:13,440 --> 01:17:14,920
Being physical helps me.

1440
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:17,000
A lot of people don't do it.

1441
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:19,080
They could probably feel a lot better if they did.

1442
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:23,080
They think it's too massive of a lifestyle change though.

1443
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:26,700
But you're not going to know who you are unless you're able to internalize it.

1444
01:17:26,700 --> 01:17:28,080
If people can meditate, great.

1445
01:17:28,080 --> 01:17:30,520
It doesn't really work for me.

1446
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:32,960
Right now, maybe it will down the road.

1447
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:34,040
But it can't be the first thing.

1448
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:40,120
I believe that what we have here with TRE and with our other protocols supporting that

1449
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:45,220
as a basis is a great education for first responders.

1450
01:17:45,220 --> 01:17:52,400
It's a great way to recover from your career because we're all going to be damaged.

1451
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:53,400
That's a fact.

1452
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:55,440
It depends on how much though.

1453
01:17:55,440 --> 01:18:02,720
Like you said, I never knew about it.

1454
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:08,440
And since then, we've now put it into our Probe School curriculum where the incumbents

1455
01:18:08,440 --> 01:18:10,840
are coming in with the knowledge.

1456
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:13,400
Fire Cadets is another program which is before the academy.

1457
01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:16,080
So again, always early, early, early.

1458
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:21,180
Early help, early knowledge, early education is going to be the only way we get through

1459
01:18:21,180 --> 01:18:24,560
the next few decades to have a positive workforce.

1460
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:29,080
You can't wait for them to be on already and then deal with the weight issues.

1461
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:33,240
You can't be retiring and then deal with the trauma issues.

1462
01:18:33,240 --> 01:18:36,420
You should have this information ahead of time so you can mitigate it when it comes

1463
01:18:36,420 --> 01:18:39,960
up so it doesn't damage you for years.

1464
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:41,720
You're losing experiences.

1465
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:42,760
You lose joy.

1466
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:43,760
You lose happiness.

1467
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:45,760
Like you wasn't happy.

1468
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:48,680
Then you feel it.

1469
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:52,320
Played the part, laughed it off.

1470
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:53,360
But that's not the reality.

1471
01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:57,800
The reality is that you're walking around in a shell.

1472
01:18:57,800 --> 01:19:00,400
I guess, ah, that's funny.

1473
01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:02,680
But am I really happy?

1474
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:08,880
And when I started to do the work with TRE, after that release, it just got better.

1475
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:11,720
The first time my kids were playing and I laughed, I was like, holy shit, that was so

1476
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:13,460
funny.

1477
01:19:13,460 --> 01:19:18,000
My own kids.

1478
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:25,360
My son was born in October, so that's three or four months after that and we had a pretty

1479
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:27,640
intense situation with his birth.

1480
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:28,640
I was crying.

1481
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:33,560
I was crying a whole lot because I felt nervous for my wife.

1482
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:34,560
I felt bad.

1483
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:35,560
I didn't know what was happening.

1484
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:41,960
This is my fourth child, so it wasn't my first experience in a hospital or surgery, but this

1485
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:43,240
was an intense situation.

1486
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:45,560
I was like, holy shit.

1487
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:46,560
I started crying.

1488
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:47,560
I came out.

1489
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:50,440
This hasn't happened since I cried on the floor at the cell and before that was probably

1490
01:19:50,440 --> 01:19:53,800
gone, I was telling you, 20 years ago.

1491
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:54,800
Crazy.

1492
01:19:54,800 --> 01:20:00,360
So you're accessing things again that were either never accessible or they were turned

1493
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:03,920
off because of your job, which is what we say, you become your job.

1494
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:05,320
You become that person.

1495
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:07,200
That's not you fully.

1496
01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:08,920
That's just what you do.

1497
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:13,320
And now you have the opportunity to regain some of yourself again and say, oh, I enjoy

1498
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:14,320
this.

1499
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:15,320
I enjoy that.

1500
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:16,320
This made me laugh.

1501
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:17,800
This gives me this is my passion.

1502
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:18,800
I really love to do this.

1503
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:19,800
I love to talk about this.

1504
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:24,840
I love to see people shake on the floor now because their experience after is like, thank

1505
01:20:24,840 --> 01:20:25,840
you so much.

1506
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:28,560
Thank you so much.

1507
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:30,320
When you talk about the shaking is funny.

1508
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:34,920
I literally just had someone, I forget which guest it was, but they were talking about

1509
01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:39,800
how a deer, for example, if they've escaped some sort of attack, they have what they call

1510
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:40,800
it.

1511
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:44,280
I think it's trauma shiver and you look at a lot of prey animals and they literally will

1512
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:46,760
quiver once they've got themselves safety.

1513
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:50,200
And that was, you know, that was kind of the observation is that we don't have a trauma

1514
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:51,200
shiver.

1515
01:20:51,200 --> 01:20:54,760
And it's funny because now here we're sitting talking about how we can actually have a trauma

1516
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:55,880
shiver.

1517
01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:56,880
We have it.

1518
01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:57,880
We have it.

1519
01:20:57,880 --> 01:20:58,880
We don't know about it.

1520
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:00,200
We, we don't know about it.

1521
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:03,320
It's so, and Dr. Maselli was always like, it's always so easy.

1522
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:04,320
It's so easy.

1523
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:06,200
I don't know why everybody makes a big deal about it.

1524
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:11,560
You know, like the company and it, and, and it is easy to do, but it's weird and you have

1525
01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:14,920
to be careful how you do it, how much you do it, especially in the beginning.

1526
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:19,120
Cause again, you get to build tolerance like anything else, but it's an every animal you,

1527
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:22,480
you shake when you're, when people have anxiety, right?

1528
01:21:22,480 --> 01:21:26,120
It's like you get, you get the shakes, you get nervous, right?

1529
01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:27,120
That's the body's response.

1530
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:28,240
It's not the anxiety.

1531
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:31,360
It's your body saying to chill out.

1532
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:33,240
So it's a nervous system's reaction.

1533
01:21:33,240 --> 01:21:36,760
You're not, you're not controlling that with the way you're thinking.

1534
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:42,980
So once I understood that I said, okay, let it happen, right, give up the control.

1535
01:21:42,980 --> 01:21:47,880
And then it started to change and it's been ever changing these tremors.

1536
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:50,200
They never the same ever.

1537
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:54,120
Every situation is different because the way I understand it is if I release a layer of

1538
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:58,000
tension, I am now a different person, right?

1539
01:21:58,000 --> 01:21:59,000
That's gone.

1540
01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:02,560
Whatever, whatever that was holding back to my body in terms of movement, gait patterns,

1541
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:05,200
all that stuff, it changes.

1542
01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:09,280
So now going forward, every time I do it, I'm just getting a layer off, getting better,

1543
01:22:09,280 --> 01:22:13,480
a layer off, getting better, like reintegrating into my body, constantly going forward, making

1544
01:22:13,480 --> 01:22:14,480
progress.

1545
01:22:14,480 --> 01:22:15,480
So you're learning more about your body.

1546
01:22:15,480 --> 01:22:19,240
You're learning about, like I said before, all the different emotions that you have again.

1547
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:26,360
But now I'm walking around in life, like I can handle so much stuff every day because

1548
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:27,360
it's not getting any better.

1549
01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:29,000
It's not getting any easier.

1550
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:33,640
So your resiliency actually goes up as well, which is another fun fact of TRE is that you

1551
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:37,400
become more stress resilient because you're managing your body better and these situations

1552
01:22:37,400 --> 01:22:38,400
you can kind of compartmentalize.

1553
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:41,400
They don't have to be such big things.

1554
01:22:41,400 --> 01:22:43,400
I can blow things out of proportion.

1555
01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:47,600
People that live in an anxious state constantly, everything's a problem.

1556
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:48,920
I don't have really any problems.

1557
01:22:48,920 --> 01:22:53,720
I just have this situation that I have to deal with and that's it.

1558
01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:58,280
So it used to be dealing with stress for weeks and weeks about something that happened, the

1559
01:22:58,280 --> 01:23:02,320
fight you had or whatever, a relationship issue, knots in your stomach constantly.

1560
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:03,320
That's chronic stress.

1561
01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:05,240
It doesn't bother me anymore.

1562
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:08,520
It'll bother me for a very short amount of time until I realize what's happening to myself

1563
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:09,520
and I can mitigate it.

1564
01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:10,880
And I might have to go shake.

1565
01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:14,680
If I have a really tough day with the kids and everything crazy, I'm like 10 minutes

1566
01:23:14,680 --> 01:23:19,880
at night, I'm shaking and then I'm going to bed and I'll sleep well because again, it

1567
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:22,240
helps me sleep better, which helps me recover better.

1568
01:23:22,240 --> 01:23:28,160
So it's a great tool to utilize as a foundational component of recovery.

1569
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:29,160
Use the word resilience.

1570
01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:34,840
And this is something I've been observing a lot recently is in the mental health conversation,

1571
01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:41,800
we've gone from stop being a pussy to this last 10 years or so, oh, it's smash the stigma,

1572
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:42,800
smash the stigma.

1573
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:47,560
And I think we've just tripped over that and we were lying on the ground confused because

1574
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:52,380
there's people like, yeah, I'm hurting, but the barriers to entry for people getting help,

1575
01:23:52,380 --> 01:23:57,640
the toolbox that they're given is two things, talk therapy and psych meds basically in a

1576
01:23:57,640 --> 01:23:59,000
lot of places.

1577
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:05,280
And so when you actually look at what's available, including TRE, you have this beautiful diverse

1578
01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:11,840
toolbox from EMDR to equine therapy to psychedelics to TRE.

1579
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:16,560
And I think what we need to do is put that message of hope into the mental health conversation.

1580
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:21,080
The true resilience is you addressing the struggles.

1581
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:25,160
And once you've addressed them, just like the kind of the gold glue in that Japanese

1582
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:27,660
metaphor, that now becomes a strength.

1583
01:24:27,660 --> 01:24:30,640
So we talk about resilience, you know, and none of those programs out there where you

1584
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:35,240
go through a collapse maze while they play screaming music, you know, in your ears.

1585
01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:37,800
And but I don't think that's how you forge resilience.

1586
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:42,640
I think you forge resilience by simply dealing with your shit and it could be mentally, it

1587
01:24:42,640 --> 01:24:44,040
could be physically.

1588
01:24:44,040 --> 01:24:48,300
But when you realize that just like you said, that there's a better version of you waiting

1589
01:24:48,300 --> 01:24:52,620
on the other side, that puts hope into the mental health conversation.

1590
01:24:52,620 --> 01:24:56,760
I think it's hope that is what people need.

1591
01:24:56,760 --> 01:24:57,760
I agree 100%.

1592
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:01,840
And that is that is should be the message that is the message that you have.

1593
01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:04,820
You have something that can help that people don't know about.

1594
01:25:04,820 --> 01:25:08,480
So how many have there's a million firefighters in the nation, you know, how many more around

1595
01:25:08,480 --> 01:25:14,760
the world you could easily teach us to everyone and use it as a method for first responders,

1596
01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:18,200
fire service, EMS, cops, all the same.

1597
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:22,680
They're all alike.

1598
01:25:22,680 --> 01:25:24,000
There is there is a way out.

1599
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:25,000
There is a way out.

1600
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:27,080
You might not even know you need it, though.

1601
01:25:27,080 --> 01:25:32,840
You know, I didn't realize how much I was being affected by everything until you start

1602
01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:35,480
to unwind it a little bit and unpack it a little bit.

1603
01:25:35,480 --> 01:25:38,320
And then it changes your perception on a lot of things in life.

1604
01:25:38,320 --> 01:25:43,080
It changes everything you think about because you're now not living in that sympathetic

1605
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:44,080
state so much.

1606
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:47,000
You're not constantly up here all the time.

1607
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:48,200
And that becomes a normal.

1608
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:50,580
That's a new normal for a lot of people.

1609
01:25:50,580 --> 01:25:51,960
And it's not a good way to live.

1610
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:53,520
It destroys your body.

1611
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:58,920
It destroys your interactions and your relationships to a point where they're not they're not being

1612
01:25:58,920 --> 01:25:59,920
their best.

1613
01:25:59,920 --> 01:26:00,920
Right.

1614
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:02,960
You still have them, but maybe they're not the best.

1615
01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:06,600
They have a potential that's greater than you think.

1616
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:08,520
You know, yeah, that's kind of how I see it now.

1617
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:09,520
Well, I don't have you see it.

1618
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:11,040
I've been like kind of working my jaw.

1619
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:13,620
I've had clenching at night for a long, long time.

1620
01:26:13,620 --> 01:26:16,920
So I'm excited to try this myself for people listening.

1621
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:20,360
Obviously, the goal is to get them to dive into the program fully.

1622
01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:25,440
But as an overview, what does it look like for someone who, you know, said, OK, I would

1623
01:26:25,440 --> 01:26:26,800
like to try this?

1624
01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:30,960
What would those 10 minutes look like?

1625
01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:33,040
So obviously, you could look online.

1626
01:26:33,040 --> 01:26:35,200
You can see videos of the warmups and how to do it.

1627
01:26:35,200 --> 01:26:36,880
It's a very simple process.

1628
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:42,200
I would say you definitely would like to work with a provider, someone to guide you.

1629
01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:43,960
That would be my experience.

1630
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:47,500
That's when I got the best results because you could get uncomfortable.

1631
01:26:47,500 --> 01:26:49,840
Like I said, you might not understand what's happening.

1632
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:54,520
You might not understand how to change your positions to facilitate different tremors.

1633
01:26:54,520 --> 01:26:59,360
And you have to understand the emotional side of that and what could happen to you.

1634
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:00,560
Nobody knows what you're dealing with.

1635
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:06,960
So this therapy without talking is good, but you obviously don't realize how your body

1636
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:07,960
can respond.

1637
01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:12,520
So being with a provider, we like to say at least three sessions with a provider.

1638
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:16,100
We've done that in the academy where we have a TRE aware.

1639
01:27:16,100 --> 01:27:20,680
So you've done the work with providers, got your questions and answers, got some information.

1640
01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:23,800
So now you can take this tool with you whenever you need it.

1641
01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:29,040
And then you're at liberty to sort of self manage that and kind of work with it a little

1642
01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:30,800
bit and see what way you can take it.

1643
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:33,400
You have to explore that in your own body.

1644
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:37,400
We have a lot of interventions that you can do, different positions that you can be in,

1645
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:40,320
and different ways to stimulate the response in your body.

1646
01:27:40,320 --> 01:27:45,760
So there's a lot to learn in terms of TRE and a lot of it comes from exploring it.

1647
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:48,480
I think initially just find a provider that works for you.

1648
01:27:48,480 --> 01:27:53,800
Again, for us, we're trying to provide this all around.

1649
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:58,760
A few of the things that we've done is our nonprofit obviously is in the infancy stages,

1650
01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:01,440
but we're trying to first get it to our retirees.

1651
01:28:01,440 --> 01:28:05,880
We're getting a group together now to do a sample of TRE.

1652
01:28:05,880 --> 01:28:10,880
The next thing would be maybe a soft pilot study on what they're doing and make that

1653
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:12,080
where we have some data, right?

1654
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:14,880
Because there's not really a lot of stuff in the fire service on TRE.

1655
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:15,880
We did nothing, really.

1656
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:19,400
We're the first agency ever to be trained with Dr. Bricelli.

1657
01:28:19,400 --> 01:28:23,520
We're co-creating the agency training that trains all the departments and all the people

1658
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:27,160
in departments, and that's going to be the standard.

1659
01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:31,020
We're developing that with TRE and their blessing and Dr. Bricelli's blessing because he saw

1660
01:28:31,020 --> 01:28:35,400
how well we were working with it because of the knowledge we had of the body.

1661
01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:40,160
He thinks it's a really amazing idea of how far it came in just less than a year where

1662
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:46,040
we have almost a thousand people in the FDA that have at least done TRE once, where they've

1663
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:47,040
experienced it.

1664
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:51,440
Whether or not they follow through is really a matter of the availability of it right now.

1665
01:28:51,440 --> 01:28:55,080
We don't have enough funding and backing to do multiple workshops.

1666
01:28:55,080 --> 01:28:59,240
We have one more slated for this year in October, usually about 20 to 25 people, and that's

1667
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:00,840
a full day workshop, eight hours.

1668
01:29:00,840 --> 01:29:03,920
They have two sessions there and then there's a follow-up for a third.

1669
01:29:03,920 --> 01:29:05,520
That makes everybody TRE aware.

1670
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:09,360
If somebody is looking to get involved with that, I think they need to be with someone

1671
01:29:09,360 --> 01:29:13,640
at least three times, I would say, that know what they're doing, that understand the body.

1672
01:29:13,640 --> 01:29:19,760
I think for us and our population, we have the best knowledge at this point that I know

1673
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:21,300
of.

1674
01:29:21,300 --> 01:29:25,880
That just comes from our experience and dealing with what we dealt with, walking in the shoes.

1675
01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:29,760
We're not coming from the outside and coming in and saying, all right, this is what first

1676
01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:33,640
responders, this is what fire service members need.

1677
01:29:33,640 --> 01:29:35,560
We know what it can do.

1678
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:38,280
I'm walking in it right now.

1679
01:29:38,280 --> 01:29:43,920
I see it as, like you said, how many people don't know this even exists?

1680
01:29:43,920 --> 01:29:44,920
That's a problem.

1681
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:49,160
I didn't know it existed and it has been out for decades all around the globe.

1682
01:29:49,160 --> 01:29:50,480
It's really a matter of timing.

1683
01:29:50,480 --> 01:29:56,280
Like you said, we're making a push where we're not going to just get rid of it and say, don't

1684
01:29:56,280 --> 01:29:57,280
worry about it.

1685
01:29:57,280 --> 01:29:58,280
Nothing happened to you.

1686
01:29:58,280 --> 01:30:02,520
We have to acknowledge, number one, that we're working in a service that affects us.

1687
01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:07,240
We chose it, yes, but we don't fully understand the impact.

1688
01:30:07,240 --> 01:30:11,360
Not only the cancer and the gear and a lot of stuff, but the impact on the nervous system,

1689
01:30:11,360 --> 01:30:17,840
the sleep and the trauma come into play and that carries over into our home life.

1690
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:20,480
I would love to have a much better home life.

1691
01:30:20,480 --> 01:30:22,800
I want to have a great life going forward with my family.

1692
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:28,640
I think that if you use this tool, you can help actually redefine those relationships

1693
01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:29,640
better.

1694
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:30,640
I'm living it.

1695
01:30:30,640 --> 01:30:31,640
I see it.

1696
01:30:31,640 --> 01:30:33,280
I hear people talking about it.

1697
01:30:33,280 --> 01:30:34,760
They're sharing it with their family members.

1698
01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:35,760
They're sharing it with their spouses.

1699
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:37,920
I'm like, oh, you can't teach this yet.

1700
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:38,920
You just learned it.

1701
01:30:38,920 --> 01:30:43,040
You got to be able to... Because the problem that I don't want to see is people doing it

1702
01:30:43,040 --> 01:30:46,520
once, not having a good experience or not understanding it and then just letting it

1703
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:48,240
go down the shelf.

1704
01:30:48,240 --> 01:30:53,960
It's an amazing tool that, again, I feel can be misinterpreted because it's very hard to

1705
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:54,960
explain.

1706
01:30:54,960 --> 01:30:59,920
It's hard to explain what your body's going through when shaking on the ground.

1707
01:30:59,920 --> 01:31:03,800
But the more we talk about it, the more we have these conversations and the more that

1708
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:07,920
we have groups of people doing it.

1709
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:11,280
The only reason why we're able to continue is that people have great feedback.

1710
01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:14,640
We have amazing feedback, amazing testimonials.

1711
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:18,960
If it wasn't that way, we wouldn't be talking on this podcast about it.

1712
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:21,040
I think it's definitely necessary right now.

1713
01:31:21,040 --> 01:31:24,040
We're in the right space in terms of mental health.

1714
01:31:24,040 --> 01:31:27,080
In the fire service, there's a lot of push on and people looking at a lot of funding,

1715
01:31:27,080 --> 01:31:30,260
a lot of grant money out there for departments.

1716
01:31:30,260 --> 01:31:32,720
This has got to be put out there.

1717
01:31:32,720 --> 01:31:37,680
I think with the IFF now and the new initiative they have with their wellness initiative and

1718
01:31:37,680 --> 01:31:41,800
being able to be involved on that platform, hopefully we can get some years and we can

1719
01:31:41,800 --> 01:31:44,320
get it onto a larger scale.

1720
01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:45,520
Beautiful.

1721
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:49,760
One group that I think always gets forgotten when it comes to the first responder professions

1722
01:31:49,760 --> 01:31:51,280
is dispatch.

1723
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:58,160
If you think about taking on trauma but having no physical offset or offloading, they are

1724
01:31:58,160 --> 01:31:59,160
the perfect example.

1725
01:31:59,160 --> 01:32:03,720
You know, 10 to 12 hour shifts stuck in a chair, probably dark when you got to work,

1726
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:05,400
dark when you leave.

1727
01:32:05,400 --> 01:32:10,240
This seems like that would be another fantastic group to maybe give them an ability to do

1728
01:32:10,240 --> 01:32:13,600
a 10 minute session to offload some of that stress.

1729
01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:14,600
Yeah.

1730
01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:19,240
One of our first groups that we did was the dispatchers.

1731
01:32:19,240 --> 01:32:26,880
Our very first trial of our workshop was a shorter version, half a day.

1732
01:32:26,880 --> 01:32:31,720
We went to the dispatchers that were coming onto the job, we worked with about 12 people.

1733
01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:35,640
Again, amazing response with them.

1734
01:32:35,640 --> 01:32:40,160
That's 100% all inclusive in the FNY's professional development office.

1735
01:32:40,160 --> 01:32:42,600
We're not just doing them with firefighters.

1736
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:48,640
We have EMS, we have fire prevention, legal staff, people working downtown, dispatchers.

1737
01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:51,280
They all come to our workshops.

1738
01:32:51,280 --> 01:32:56,560
It's a blend of everyone in the department, not just fire operations side.

1739
01:32:56,560 --> 01:33:02,040
We're getting that feedback from all angles because everyone has their own stresses.

1740
01:33:02,040 --> 01:33:05,280
Like you say, the dispatcher is not being able to physically get that out.

1741
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:08,680
If there's a bad call or there's a mayday going on or something like that.

1742
01:33:08,680 --> 01:33:12,240
That's what we spoke to them about as they were going through their classes, that this

1743
01:33:12,240 --> 01:33:13,520
could be something that you deal with.

1744
01:33:13,520 --> 01:33:17,320
So here's a tool for you to help mitigate that.

1745
01:33:17,320 --> 01:33:20,960
We have continuing opportunities down the road lining up with those guys.

1746
01:33:20,960 --> 01:33:24,120
EMS, we're rolling it out in their academy now.

1747
01:33:24,120 --> 01:33:26,600
They're working with their staff on that side.

1748
01:33:26,600 --> 01:33:32,120
It's combining this into a whole organizational piece of wellness.

1749
01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:33,440
A lot of people are looking for it.

1750
01:33:33,440 --> 01:33:35,200
We have waiting lists for our workshops right now.

1751
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:38,160
We have people waiting on us getting them the samples.

1752
01:33:38,160 --> 01:33:44,640
It's just a matter of getting things set up, scheduling, funding, approvals.

1753
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:47,680
You have to go through all this red tape.

1754
01:33:47,680 --> 01:33:48,680
We just keep doing it.

1755
01:33:48,680 --> 01:33:51,160
Well, anybody wants to shake, give me a shout.

1756
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:53,120
Shake on the ground.

1757
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:54,120
All right.

1758
01:33:54,120 --> 01:33:57,520
Well, I want to go to just one more area before we go to the closing questions.

1759
01:33:57,520 --> 01:34:03,560
You were in the coaching arena right before you joined the fire service.

1760
01:34:03,560 --> 01:34:08,360
What have you seen as far as the evolution of strength and conditioning principles?

1761
01:34:08,360 --> 01:34:12,160
For my own personal perspective, I was doing almost the bodybuilding movements.

1762
01:34:12,160 --> 01:34:14,920
I wasn't a bodybuilder, but that was what I was doing.

1763
01:34:14,920 --> 01:34:18,700
Then I got into CrossFit, really like that for a while.

1764
01:34:18,700 --> 01:34:24,080
Then I got into the strong man movements of the sandbags and sleds and found a huge carryover

1765
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:25,240
with that.

1766
01:34:25,240 --> 01:34:29,960
Now I'm doing the Wolf Brigade programming, which has put a lot of the one-arm kettlebell

1767
01:34:29,960 --> 01:34:36,240
movements, Maces, which I'm loving as a 50-year-old now to, for lack of a better word, unfuck some

1768
01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:39,040
of my injuries and immobility.

1769
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:44,260
What have you seen as far as the metamorphosis and what kind of principles do you think should

1770
01:34:44,260 --> 01:34:48,360
be being used in the 2024 modern day fire service?

1771
01:34:48,360 --> 01:34:53,000
Obviously, functional fitness is where it's at.

1772
01:34:53,000 --> 01:34:54,600
We've tried to evolve our program.

1773
01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:59,280
Again, we have 300-plus probationary firefighters in our classes.

1774
01:34:59,280 --> 01:35:01,760
We deal with a lot of people.

1775
01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:06,440
Equipment is always an issue, but we've moved into that realm where we've gotten away from

1776
01:35:06,440 --> 01:35:10,200
the basic movement patterns of, say, bodybuilding.

1777
01:35:10,200 --> 01:35:11,440
We don't have the space for it, number one.

1778
01:35:11,440 --> 01:35:12,920
We don't also have the equipment.

1779
01:35:12,920 --> 01:35:17,600
Then it turned into a lot of long runs and calisthenics because that was basically no

1780
01:35:17,600 --> 01:35:18,600
equipment.

1781
01:35:18,600 --> 01:35:25,640
Now we've been able to have non-impact rope equipment, kettlebells, slam balls, heavy

1782
01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:31,400
balls, sandbags, sleds, all those things that are fun to use, but the perception is that

1783
01:35:31,400 --> 01:35:33,680
you're not going to get jacked.

1784
01:35:33,680 --> 01:35:35,440
That's where it's a misconception.

1785
01:35:35,440 --> 01:35:40,680
Your body as it develops into whatever you're doing has to be built the same way as your

1786
01:35:40,680 --> 01:35:41,680
job.

1787
01:35:41,680 --> 01:35:42,680
What are you supposed to be doing?

1788
01:35:42,680 --> 01:35:44,960
If I'm at a fire, I'm not bench pressing.

1789
01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:49,720
It may be something I might put into a program, but the functional movements, the cardiovascular

1790
01:35:49,720 --> 01:35:57,680
system work, odd object work, like you said, unilateral work, one side versus the other,

1791
01:35:57,680 --> 01:35:59,680
these are the things that you have to do.

1792
01:35:59,680 --> 01:36:04,200
You have to do your low cardio, your high impact cardio because you have to simulate

1793
01:36:04,200 --> 01:36:06,120
what it's like to be at a fire.

1794
01:36:06,120 --> 01:36:07,480
That's for your job.

1795
01:36:07,480 --> 01:36:11,360
I think that in the fire service, I do see a lot of the guys doing that.

1796
01:36:11,360 --> 01:36:17,200
CrossFit is big because it does a lot of those modalities inside CrossFit, but from what

1797
01:36:17,200 --> 01:36:21,480
I understand and what I know of it, it can push people too hard when they're not ready,

1798
01:36:21,480 --> 01:36:24,280
especially if they haven't had the mechanics.

1799
01:36:24,280 --> 01:36:27,240
If you want to learn anything, you can do it.

1800
01:36:27,240 --> 01:36:37,880
If you want to learn power lifting versus bodybuilding versus CrossFit versus even jujitsu,

1801
01:36:37,880 --> 01:36:40,920
because everything makes the body work differently.

1802
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:45,140
If you put a program together where you're undulating in and out of different programs,

1803
01:36:45,140 --> 01:36:48,860
you can keep a lot of the things you like and also work on the things you need.

1804
01:36:48,860 --> 01:36:50,360
You don't have to just do one or the other.

1805
01:36:50,360 --> 01:36:58,140
You can go from strength training into CrossFit into swimming, into racing, back into strength

1806
01:36:58,140 --> 01:36:59,840
training, back into this.

1807
01:36:59,840 --> 01:37:04,460
You can use different modalities, A, to keep it interesting because people just get bored

1808
01:37:04,460 --> 01:37:07,520
half the time and B, it's going to carry over.

1809
01:37:07,520 --> 01:37:12,320
Like you said, having to carry over into being a human being.

1810
01:37:12,320 --> 01:37:16,480
Maybe it's for the fire floor, maybe it's to play with your kids as well.

1811
01:37:16,480 --> 01:37:19,040
That's something I want to be able to move better.

1812
01:37:19,040 --> 01:37:21,880
Being able to create mobility for me is huge.

1813
01:37:21,880 --> 01:37:24,440
I have to get down while I'm training my son to walk.

1814
01:37:24,440 --> 01:37:28,480
If I bend over, my back's going to kill me, but if I could squat a little deeper and it's

1815
01:37:28,480 --> 01:37:31,600
more comfortable for me to walk behind him, then he's going to walk and I'm not going

1816
01:37:31,600 --> 01:37:32,600
to kill myself.

1817
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:36,000
I'm going to want to do it more and he's going to excel.

1818
01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:38,520
Then teaching my kids how to maintain what they can do now.

1819
01:37:38,520 --> 01:37:42,920
These kids are so flexible, it's incredible when they're kids.

1820
01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:46,160
Famous line for doctors at Purcelli is like, you're not old, you're just tight.

1821
01:37:46,160 --> 01:37:48,360
You're like, hi, that makes a lot of sense.

1822
01:37:48,360 --> 01:37:51,920
We think that we get older and that's why we can't do anything anymore.

1823
01:37:51,920 --> 01:37:56,960
What's happening is that we're under so much stress all the time and now you're 50 and

1824
01:37:56,960 --> 01:38:00,920
you can't move because you got binded down with tension.

1825
01:38:00,920 --> 01:38:03,960
You didn't move properly and you haven't moved in probably God knows how long because it's

1826
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:08,960
got gotten worse and worse and worse and injury after injury after injury and now you're here.

1827
01:38:08,960 --> 01:38:12,760
We start to say, let's unlock all that stuff and start to move a little bit better and

1828
01:38:12,760 --> 01:38:14,000
look at the things you have to do.

1829
01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:18,840
Things that work for you that you feel good doing, do more of that.

1830
01:38:18,840 --> 01:38:21,640
Don't force things that are just because you used to do it.

1831
01:38:21,640 --> 01:38:25,680
That's a lot of people go back to the original set and it's like, that's 20 years old.

1832
01:38:25,680 --> 01:38:32,920
Of course, I still use a bench every so often, but most of the stuff I do is not rigid in

1833
01:38:32,920 --> 01:38:34,880
one plane of movement.

1834
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:38,560
And then as you do it, you're like, man, this is fucking hard.

1835
01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:41,680
This is like offset stuff and rotational torsional things.

1836
01:38:41,680 --> 01:38:46,080
Like, man, it's so hard that I might not do it anymore because I like doing the old stuff,

1837
01:38:46,080 --> 01:38:47,080
it's easier.

1838
01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:48,640
And then you go back to the old shit again.

1839
01:38:48,640 --> 01:38:53,320
So just make progress, always change your program.

1840
01:38:53,320 --> 01:38:54,880
Be adaptable to it.

1841
01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:55,880
Don't be so rigid.

1842
01:38:55,880 --> 01:38:56,880
There's something I'm doing now.

1843
01:38:56,880 --> 01:38:58,760
If I don't feel my workout, I stop.

1844
01:38:58,760 --> 01:39:01,280
I'm like, I'm not pushing this workout today.

1845
01:39:01,280 --> 01:39:03,160
I didn't sleep good last night.

1846
01:39:03,160 --> 01:39:04,880
Kids are crazy today.

1847
01:39:04,880 --> 01:39:07,120
I'm not going to get my workout that I thought I was going to get in.

1848
01:39:07,120 --> 01:39:08,480
I'm just not feeling today.

1849
01:39:08,480 --> 01:39:11,080
Let me switch it to something else, like recovery day.

1850
01:39:11,080 --> 01:39:14,440
I'll come back tomorrow because I'm not chasing a deadline either.

1851
01:39:14,440 --> 01:39:19,200
I'm trying to stay in very good shape until I don't wake up one day.

1852
01:39:19,200 --> 01:39:21,480
That will be my goal.

1853
01:39:21,480 --> 01:39:22,480
I don't want to be in a hospital.

1854
01:39:22,480 --> 01:39:23,480
I don't want to be in diapers.

1855
01:39:23,480 --> 01:39:30,440
I want to be able to be functional as an adult, as a 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90.

1856
01:39:30,440 --> 01:39:32,640
I bless myself if that ever happens.

1857
01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:34,840
But at that point, I still want to be able to move.

1858
01:39:34,840 --> 01:39:39,600
I'm going to hopefully do things the same and not hurt myself because I'm not looking

1859
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:44,600
at my body in a way of how can I maintain it at the best of its ability.

1860
01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:48,640
So with the recovery, 50 years old, I would say half the time, we're definitely looking

1861
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:50,480
at recovery.

1862
01:39:50,480 --> 01:39:54,840
Looking at foam rolling, looking at zone two cardio, looking at TRE, looking at mobility

1863
01:39:54,840 --> 01:39:58,920
training, core strength.

1864
01:39:58,920 --> 01:40:02,560
And then making sure your posture is good throughout your life so you don't hunch over

1865
01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:05,280
having the forward head tilt with these cell phones.

1866
01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:10,080
And then all of a sudden you're walking around at 80 with a cane and you can't look up and

1867
01:40:10,080 --> 01:40:11,080
you get pushed over by the wind.

1868
01:40:11,080 --> 01:40:12,760
You break your hip and you die.

1869
01:40:12,760 --> 01:40:14,040
I want to go a different way.

1870
01:40:14,040 --> 01:40:19,680
I want to be someone who I can race my kids so when they're 20, I'm 60 and I'm like, all

1871
01:40:19,680 --> 01:40:20,680
right, let's go.

1872
01:40:20,680 --> 01:40:24,240
Still trying to put some work in, still trying to be an asset.

1873
01:40:24,240 --> 01:40:27,520
I think that's the only thing we can hold onto ourselves and we can control it.

1874
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:28,760
We have the ability to do that.

1875
01:40:28,760 --> 01:40:33,000
You eat a certain way, you train a certain way, you be consistent, you have discipline.

1876
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:38,720
You're pretty much going to stay where you were at throughout your decades of life.

1877
01:40:38,720 --> 01:40:41,480
People fall off a cliff and they never come back.

1878
01:40:41,480 --> 01:40:42,480
It's a waste.

1879
01:40:42,480 --> 01:40:43,480
It's a waste of your body.

1880
01:40:43,480 --> 01:40:46,040
You only got one of them.

1881
01:40:46,040 --> 01:40:52,280
And if you've given it to a service, you're going to be in a position where you have issues.

1882
01:40:52,280 --> 01:40:55,960
You have multiple issues, injuries, surgeries.

1883
01:40:55,960 --> 01:40:57,320
There's all trauma to the body.

1884
01:40:57,320 --> 01:41:01,440
There's all dysfunction now beyond that if you haven't healed from it.

1885
01:41:01,440 --> 01:41:05,720
And if you look at to rebuild, which I've seen physically, I've been rebuilding tissue

1886
01:41:05,720 --> 01:41:10,560
that has been at your feet for years from surgeries, from gait issues, calves and chest

1887
01:41:10,560 --> 01:41:12,440
tears.

1888
01:41:12,440 --> 01:41:18,920
Things are firing again, which is exciting because I honestly was living in a world where

1889
01:41:18,920 --> 01:41:20,640
I was doing the same shit all the time.

1890
01:41:20,640 --> 01:41:22,080
It helps you to evolve.

1891
01:41:22,080 --> 01:41:26,440
You focus on focus, focus on what you're feeling, not how many reps you need to do.

1892
01:41:26,440 --> 01:41:30,880
So if you feel a spine that works, I really felt that that's something that your body

1893
01:41:30,880 --> 01:41:32,520
needs.

1894
01:41:32,520 --> 01:41:33,520
It's working.

1895
01:41:33,520 --> 01:41:35,360
You're connecting to yourself again.

1896
01:41:35,360 --> 01:41:42,560
And through this process, it seems like you get more connected to your muscle tissue,

1897
01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:48,840
more focus in workouts, better understanding of when to stop and how much to use and how

1898
01:41:48,840 --> 01:41:50,240
to progress your workouts.

1899
01:41:50,240 --> 01:41:54,760
It's very interesting the change in what I'm seeing and the way I'm thinking in terms

1900
01:41:54,760 --> 01:41:56,680
of training.

1901
01:41:56,680 --> 01:42:03,120
I think we have an opportunity to really simplify it for people because it doesn't have to be

1902
01:42:03,120 --> 01:42:04,600
that complicated.

1903
01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:07,560
Fitness is not like three hours a day in the gym.

1904
01:42:07,560 --> 01:42:12,400
It's like if I have four kids here, can I do 20 minutes of lunches and then I'm good

1905
01:42:12,400 --> 01:42:13,400
for today?

1906
01:42:13,400 --> 01:42:14,400
Yeah.

1907
01:42:14,400 --> 01:42:16,360
What's our goal really?

1908
01:42:16,360 --> 01:42:18,840
It's overall wellness and health and to feel better.

1909
01:42:18,840 --> 01:42:20,400
If it's bodybuilding, it's different.

1910
01:42:20,400 --> 01:42:22,240
If it's play a sport, it's different.

1911
01:42:22,240 --> 01:42:26,120
If it's health and the fire service job, that's another thing.

1912
01:42:26,120 --> 01:42:31,000
Maybe I have to add in some other things for that job specifically, but most of the things

1913
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:34,840
that we do are for life function, which is normal life.

1914
01:42:34,840 --> 01:42:40,400
And if you can just keep it to that where you're not putting too much pressure on yourself

1915
01:42:40,400 --> 01:42:45,440
to get somewhere and just to understand that progress over perfection is going to outweigh

1916
01:42:45,440 --> 01:42:47,760
everything, it's going to be what you need.

1917
01:42:47,760 --> 01:42:49,640
Don't look to be perfect at something.

1918
01:42:49,640 --> 01:42:52,320
Make progress constantly.

1919
01:42:52,320 --> 01:42:57,000
It's a journey and then you just don't wake up one day.

1920
01:42:57,000 --> 01:42:58,000
Don't stop.

1921
01:42:58,000 --> 01:42:59,000
It's got to be forever.

1922
01:42:59,000 --> 01:43:00,000
Absolutely.

1923
01:43:00,000 --> 01:43:05,000
Well, I want to shift to some closing questions quickly before I let you go.

1924
01:43:05,000 --> 01:43:09,520
The first one I'd love to ask, is there a book or are there books that you love to recommend?

1925
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:12,840
It can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated.

1926
01:43:12,840 --> 01:43:20,280
I've read a lot of motivational self-help books.

1927
01:43:20,280 --> 01:43:23,960
One that my friend loves to quote from is The Four Agreements.

1928
01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:25,160
That's a pretty simple book to read.

1929
01:43:25,160 --> 01:43:27,000
I like quick reads too.

1930
01:43:27,000 --> 01:43:28,000
Good things.

1931
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:30,520
I just got another one, The Obstacle is the Way.

1932
01:43:30,520 --> 01:43:31,520
That's the recent one.

1933
01:43:31,520 --> 01:43:32,520
I just started that one.

1934
01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:33,520
That's actually pretty good.

1935
01:43:33,520 --> 01:43:36,560
And I leans towards what we're talking about.

1936
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:39,080
Overcoming these challenges is a very important thing, right?

1937
01:43:39,080 --> 01:43:40,760
To right yourself.

1938
01:43:40,760 --> 01:43:43,200
You can't get buried under the stress.

1939
01:43:43,200 --> 01:43:46,400
Yeah, I don't know.

1940
01:43:46,400 --> 01:43:51,480
I got a bunch of them downstairs.

1941
01:43:51,480 --> 01:43:53,720
Everything I read now is trying to just make myself better.

1942
01:43:53,720 --> 01:43:58,440
Dr. Brescelli's book is a great book on TRE and the stress.

1943
01:43:58,440 --> 01:44:01,440
It has a lot of stories in there about people's success.

1944
01:44:01,440 --> 01:44:08,240
Education on that, I do a lot of education on just bettering my family.

1945
01:44:08,240 --> 01:44:09,240
Different things that I don't know about.

1946
01:44:09,240 --> 01:44:11,880
Now, I'm really in search of information.

1947
01:44:11,880 --> 01:44:16,440
Because you live a certain way for a long time, you're kind of like, wow, I really haven't

1948
01:44:16,440 --> 01:44:17,800
done as much as I should have done.

1949
01:44:17,800 --> 01:44:22,120
Maybe that's just me, but I like to look at things differently now.

1950
01:44:22,120 --> 01:44:30,120
I'm listening to progress my relationships, my parenting, and my family's security.

1951
01:44:30,120 --> 01:44:32,600
That's really kind of where I hone in on.

1952
01:44:32,600 --> 01:44:37,840
In terms of fitness, I like to keep abreast on things, but I think 20 plus years of just

1953
01:44:37,840 --> 01:44:43,960
training or dealing with people, how many certifications can you get?

1954
01:44:43,960 --> 01:44:48,680
Before you start realizing it's kind of all the same information, you really got to see

1955
01:44:48,680 --> 01:44:50,800
how to apply to each person.

1956
01:44:50,800 --> 01:44:52,680
Each person's story is different.

1957
01:44:52,680 --> 01:44:56,960
When people come to train with me, a lot of what they're dealing with isn't they have

1958
01:44:56,960 --> 01:44:58,800
a problem with fitness.

1959
01:44:58,800 --> 01:45:03,480
They have emotional issues that stem from trauma or something that happened in life

1960
01:45:03,480 --> 01:45:05,400
that causes the habits to change.

1961
01:45:05,400 --> 01:45:12,080
If we look at the habits and why are they there, it's more about, like you said, way

1962
01:45:12,080 --> 01:45:13,080
back.

1963
01:45:13,080 --> 01:45:17,680
This is almost like they're caught in this loop of, I don't understand why I'm like this.

1964
01:45:17,680 --> 01:45:19,920
I'll do this for this fad, that fad.

1965
01:45:19,920 --> 01:45:23,040
I'll look at this TikToker or this fitness guru or whatever.

1966
01:45:23,040 --> 01:45:26,240
But when it comes down to it, you got to look inside yourself and say, I'm really fucked

1967
01:45:26,240 --> 01:45:28,360
up a little bit.

1968
01:45:28,360 --> 01:45:29,360
I acknowledge it now.

1969
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:30,560
This is why I eat this way.

1970
01:45:30,560 --> 01:45:32,880
This is why I don't put this as a priority.

1971
01:45:32,880 --> 01:45:37,040
This is why I work all the time to block out everything, whatever it is.

1972
01:45:37,040 --> 01:45:39,080
Then it comes to you like, hey, I want to work out.

1973
01:45:39,080 --> 01:45:40,080
Well, okay.

1974
01:45:40,080 --> 01:45:43,840
Well, you haven't worked out in your whole life or you don't know what, you have no mechanical

1975
01:45:43,840 --> 01:45:46,240
movement, you're super tight, you have to start with this.

1976
01:45:46,240 --> 01:45:48,680
They're like, well, I want to just lose weight.

1977
01:45:48,680 --> 01:45:51,000
Well, no, that's not it.

1978
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:54,440
You'll lose the weight when you release all the shit.

1979
01:45:54,440 --> 01:45:58,600
When you do that, you start to feel better and then you start to move better.

1980
01:45:58,600 --> 01:46:02,760
Then all of a sudden you realize that the stuff that's been bogging you down, you've

1981
01:46:02,760 --> 01:46:06,960
could have easily just dealt with it on your own, but you haven't had the tools yet.

1982
01:46:06,960 --> 01:46:09,280
So a lot of my sessions come into play with psychology.

1983
01:46:09,280 --> 01:46:11,320
I should have fired my psychiatrist.

1984
01:46:11,320 --> 01:46:13,480
He's cost me too much money.

1985
01:46:13,480 --> 01:46:17,480
I'm like, well, A, you're going to feel better when you work out, but B, I'm trying to get

1986
01:46:17,480 --> 01:46:20,520
to the root causes of what you're dealing with and try to help you understand how to

1987
01:46:20,520 --> 01:46:21,880
create better habits.

1988
01:46:21,880 --> 01:46:24,640
Habits are going to discipline, are going to outweigh everything.

1989
01:46:24,640 --> 01:46:25,640
Just stick with that.

1990
01:46:25,640 --> 01:46:26,640
Everybody will be just fine.

1991
01:46:26,640 --> 01:46:28,640
We've been much better in the population.

1992
01:46:28,640 --> 01:46:29,640
Absolutely.

1993
01:46:29,640 --> 01:46:31,120
A little bit of a run on.

1994
01:46:31,120 --> 01:46:32,120
I tend to do that.

1995
01:46:32,120 --> 01:46:33,120
No, no, it was good though.

1996
01:46:33,120 --> 01:46:34,120
It's great information.

1997
01:46:34,120 --> 01:46:35,120
Great perspectives.

1998
01:46:35,120 --> 01:46:36,120
I'm sorry.

1999
01:46:36,120 --> 01:46:39,200
What about films and documentaries that you love?

2000
01:46:39,200 --> 01:46:40,880
Let's see.

2001
01:46:40,880 --> 01:46:43,880
I don't know.

2002
01:46:43,880 --> 01:46:47,000
I don't really watch a lot of films to be honest with you.

2003
01:46:47,000 --> 01:46:48,160
I've gone away from sports.

2004
01:46:48,160 --> 01:46:50,360
I've gone away from TV.

2005
01:46:50,360 --> 01:46:55,280
I don't even have cable in my house.

2006
01:46:55,280 --> 01:47:02,040
The documentaries that I watch now are kind of like conspiracy theory, I would say.

2007
01:47:02,040 --> 01:47:06,360
I think a lot of truth in these things that we know from the lies that we've kind of lived

2008
01:47:06,360 --> 01:47:08,320
through.

2009
01:47:08,320 --> 01:47:10,640
I question everything now.

2010
01:47:10,640 --> 01:47:16,240
I've kind of gotten away from movies and TV and all that stuff.

2011
01:47:16,240 --> 01:47:19,360
I can tell you, they got like as a kid, but they just want to watch.

2012
01:47:19,360 --> 01:47:22,440
I don't trust anything out there.

2013
01:47:22,440 --> 01:47:27,700
I look at people, I try to say, okay, if I just stay within what I know and what I know

2014
01:47:27,700 --> 01:47:30,360
I can give people, I got plenty of work to do.

2015
01:47:30,360 --> 01:47:35,960
I got plenty of work, I'll have decades of interactions with people coming forward that

2016
01:47:35,960 --> 01:47:39,840
can hopefully thank me where I like that feeling.

2017
01:47:39,840 --> 01:47:43,840
When people thank me, I like that because I know I've done something good.

2018
01:47:43,840 --> 01:47:44,840
I actually look for that.

2019
01:47:44,840 --> 01:47:46,240
I look for helping people.

2020
01:47:46,240 --> 01:47:50,760
I'm always trying to do stuff.

2021
01:47:50,760 --> 01:47:53,760
That's probably my quality and it could also be a curse.

2022
01:47:53,760 --> 01:47:55,800
Babe, I'll bring it back.

2023
01:47:55,800 --> 01:47:57,280
I got to go do this.

2024
01:47:57,280 --> 01:48:00,440
Somebody had a question about working out, I got to go talk to them.

2025
01:48:00,440 --> 01:48:01,440
Be on the phone, whatever.

2026
01:48:01,440 --> 01:48:02,440
She's like, what are you doing?

2027
01:48:02,440 --> 01:48:03,440
I'm like, I was talking to this guy.

2028
01:48:03,440 --> 01:48:04,440
It was an hour and a half.

2029
01:48:04,440 --> 01:48:07,040
I'm like, we got to a conversation.

2030
01:48:07,040 --> 01:48:08,040
I don't know.

2031
01:48:08,040 --> 01:48:09,040
That's just who I am.

2032
01:48:09,040 --> 01:48:12,440
Sometimes I almost sacrifice my life here for that.

2033
01:48:12,440 --> 01:48:15,640
I think there's a lot of people that are just suffering, man.

2034
01:48:15,640 --> 01:48:22,760
I think we have something new, not new, but we have something new to our world.

2035
01:48:22,760 --> 01:48:24,880
Our little world and where we live in.

2036
01:48:24,880 --> 01:48:28,600
You open up the door, you're like, wow, this is some weird shit, but I feel a lot better.

2037
01:48:28,600 --> 01:48:31,640
All of a sudden you got a thousand people who did it.

2038
01:48:31,640 --> 01:48:35,960
You have trying to figure out a way to give it to our retirees.

2039
01:48:35,960 --> 01:48:37,800
I don't know anything about nonprofit work.

2040
01:48:37,800 --> 01:48:43,040
They open one up, try to figure it out, make it work, but they're responding to it.

2041
01:48:43,040 --> 01:48:44,040
They want it.

2042
01:48:44,040 --> 01:48:49,640
I spoke to 120 retirees two weeks ago and guys are signing up their emails.

2043
01:48:49,640 --> 01:48:53,040
They want more information because it made sense.

2044
01:48:53,040 --> 01:48:57,800
Whatever I say resonates and I just keep talking and the people who want to hear it or need

2045
01:48:57,800 --> 01:49:01,960
to hear it will come out of the woodwork and hopefully get contacted and we can get this

2046
01:49:01,960 --> 01:49:02,960
to happen.

2047
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:04,640
But I really do want to get this into other agencies.

2048
01:49:04,640 --> 01:49:08,080
I want to get this to our retirees, the family members.

2049
01:49:08,080 --> 01:49:09,080
My wife does it.

2050
01:49:09,080 --> 01:49:12,080
My daughter does it.

2051
01:49:12,080 --> 01:49:17,680
Anybody that has stress in their life can feel better and it's one thing that they don't

2052
01:49:17,680 --> 01:49:18,680
know about.

2053
01:49:18,680 --> 01:49:19,680
They can work exercise.

2054
01:49:19,680 --> 01:49:20,680
You can eat right.

2055
01:49:20,680 --> 01:49:21,920
You can do all the cardio.

2056
01:49:21,920 --> 01:49:25,080
You can do yoga and meditation.

2057
01:49:25,080 --> 01:49:28,480
Maybe this is something that people will gravitate to because it's something that your body can

2058
01:49:28,480 --> 01:49:29,480
do on its own.

2059
01:49:29,480 --> 01:49:30,480
I'm not forcing it.

2060
01:49:30,480 --> 01:49:31,480
I don't need equipment.

2061
01:49:31,480 --> 01:49:34,080
I don't need very little coaching.

2062
01:49:34,080 --> 01:49:37,600
I just need to be somebody to observe me to make sure I'm doing it safely.

2063
01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:42,800
And then I can do it forever anytime I want, anywhere I want, as long or as short as I

2064
01:49:42,800 --> 01:49:49,000
want and no matter what, as long as that travel starts, I get a positive effect on my body.

2065
01:49:49,000 --> 01:49:50,640
It's something really good.

2066
01:49:50,640 --> 01:49:52,120
Amazing.

2067
01:49:52,120 --> 01:49:56,360
Well speaking of interesting people, is there a person that you'd recommend to come on this

2068
01:49:56,360 --> 01:50:01,640
podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders, military and associated professions of the

2069
01:50:01,640 --> 01:50:04,040
world?

2070
01:50:04,040 --> 01:50:06,240
I would highly recommend Dr. Bricelli.

2071
01:50:06,240 --> 01:50:10,840
I would highly recommend one of my co-founders of Fire Tribe, Adrian Caban, my lieutenant,

2072
01:50:10,840 --> 01:50:12,320
the guy who helped and fixes me.

2073
01:50:12,320 --> 01:50:13,320
He would be amazing.

2074
01:50:13,320 --> 01:50:19,560
He has so much more knowledge on the body than I do.

2075
01:50:19,560 --> 01:50:22,480
My staff, I have tons of guys with a lot of experience.

2076
01:50:22,480 --> 01:50:23,480
That'd be great.

2077
01:50:23,480 --> 01:50:26,520
But my top two would be definitely, David Bricelli is awesome.

2078
01:50:26,520 --> 01:50:30,480
I don't know if he would do it, but maybe he would now if we got him on.

2079
01:50:30,480 --> 01:50:34,680
Because he's very excited about working with our community and seeing what we did so far

2080
01:50:34,680 --> 01:50:37,320
because he kind of like went out on his own.

2081
01:50:37,320 --> 01:50:38,320
He was traveling.

2082
01:50:38,320 --> 01:50:41,000
He went to Tibet to work with the monks.

2083
01:50:41,000 --> 01:50:42,680
He goes all around the world.

2084
01:50:42,680 --> 01:50:45,760
This guy is quite a character.

2085
01:50:45,760 --> 01:50:47,560
But he profoundly changed my life.

2086
01:50:47,560 --> 01:50:50,920
If I didn't meet him, I don't know what I'd be doing right now.

2087
01:50:50,920 --> 01:50:55,600
I wouldn't be doing any of this, I tell you that much.

2088
01:50:55,600 --> 01:50:57,600
This is a very recent change.

2089
01:50:57,600 --> 01:51:02,840
A year ago, I had thoughts about what I want to do when I retire or what we could do with

2090
01:51:02,840 --> 01:51:03,840
the fire department.

2091
01:51:03,840 --> 01:51:06,160
This thing came out of nowhere.

2092
01:51:06,160 --> 01:51:07,160
It really helped me.

2093
01:51:07,160 --> 01:51:08,160
It helped a lot of people immediately.

2094
01:51:08,160 --> 01:51:10,760
We were like, okay, this is something that we have to share.

2095
01:51:10,760 --> 01:51:14,400
Ever since then, it's been just going and going and going.

2096
01:51:14,400 --> 01:51:15,400
I appreciate your time.

2097
01:51:15,400 --> 01:51:19,640
I'll highly look, maybe we can get him on here because he can share a lot of information

2098
01:51:19,640 --> 01:51:21,720
on what this does for the body.

2099
01:51:21,720 --> 01:51:25,320
He's worked with so many people all over the world.

2100
01:51:25,320 --> 01:51:29,640
It just seems like now it's starting to come into our neck of the woods.

2101
01:51:29,640 --> 01:51:34,320
Hopefully through the fire service, we can get it out there as a staple, part of the

2102
01:51:34,320 --> 01:51:36,320
WFI initiative, hopefully.

2103
01:51:36,320 --> 01:51:41,680
We're going to get down that road and hopefully show this to them and say, listen, for us,

2104
01:51:41,680 --> 01:51:42,680
this is from the body.

2105
01:51:42,680 --> 01:51:45,320
This is a bottom-up solution.

2106
01:51:45,320 --> 01:51:47,280
Nobody talks about it, something like that.

2107
01:51:47,280 --> 01:51:49,560
It's all that top-down stuff.

2108
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:51,680
You know that better than anybody.

2109
01:51:51,680 --> 01:51:53,520
I would love to work with you on this.

2110
01:51:53,520 --> 01:51:55,840
Yeah, let's make it happen.

2111
01:51:55,840 --> 01:51:56,840
I'll get you going on this.

2112
01:51:56,840 --> 01:51:57,840
This will be awesome.

2113
01:51:57,840 --> 01:52:01,760
It's just a great thing to see people when they have that reaction and the change in

2114
01:52:01,760 --> 01:52:04,480
them and then if they carry it forward.

2115
01:52:04,480 --> 01:52:05,760
Everybody's on the same page.

2116
01:52:05,760 --> 01:52:09,360
Anybody who continues to your reading knows the journey is still going on.

2117
01:52:09,360 --> 01:52:10,360
That's why you keep doing it.

2118
01:52:10,360 --> 01:52:11,360
It's exciting.

2119
01:52:11,360 --> 01:52:12,360
It changes.

2120
01:52:12,360 --> 01:52:13,360
It evolves.

2121
01:52:13,360 --> 01:52:14,360
It helps you deal with today.

2122
01:52:14,360 --> 01:52:15,360
It helps you deal with 10 years ago.

2123
01:52:15,360 --> 01:52:18,120
It helps you be better going forward.

2124
01:52:18,120 --> 01:52:21,920
You tie it together with the whole overall fitness package.

2125
01:52:21,920 --> 01:52:23,280
Understanding maybe less is more.

2126
01:52:23,280 --> 01:52:27,240
40 to 50 years old, maybe I need less of that high-intensity stuff.

2127
01:52:27,240 --> 01:52:29,760
I still need a little bit, but let me scale it down.

2128
01:52:29,760 --> 01:52:30,760
More zone two.

2129
01:52:30,760 --> 01:52:32,360
Let me look at my nutrition a little bit.

2130
01:52:32,360 --> 01:52:37,800
Let me look at my life in general and what's really causing the stressors in my life and

2131
01:52:37,800 --> 01:52:42,640
how can I rearrange it so it minimizes so I have a peaceful life, so I'm happy.

2132
01:52:42,640 --> 01:52:45,000
I'm an asset.

2133
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:49,800
I think that's the main point here is that we're trying to build people to be assets.

2134
01:52:49,800 --> 01:52:50,800
My kids are going to be assets.

2135
01:52:50,800 --> 01:52:51,800
They're not going to be liabilities.

2136
01:52:51,800 --> 01:52:56,640
I don't care if they can do whatever they want, but ultimately when we train at the

2137
01:52:56,640 --> 01:53:00,880
academy I say you have to be the asset to the firehouse.

2138
01:53:00,880 --> 01:53:02,680
You have to be an asset to the crew that you're working with.

2139
01:53:02,680 --> 01:53:03,680
That's it.

2140
01:53:03,680 --> 01:53:06,600
Don't be the hole in the Swiss cheese.

2141
01:53:06,600 --> 01:53:09,120
That comes down by taking care of yourself first.

2142
01:53:09,120 --> 01:53:12,280
As a fitness guy, I have to speak from that language.

2143
01:53:12,280 --> 01:53:17,040
Your physical health, the amount of strength you have in your body, the amount of endurance

2144
01:53:17,040 --> 01:53:21,160
you have in your body is totally up to you and what you do every day, but it's also your

2145
01:53:21,160 --> 01:53:24,960
profession and you really need to take that seriously because when they pick up the phone

2146
01:53:24,960 --> 01:53:29,920
to call they don't want some three slugs coming off the rig.

2147
01:53:29,920 --> 01:53:34,520
Slow, discombobulated, out of breath.

2148
01:53:34,520 --> 01:53:39,280
We got to walk up to 20 flights because the elevator is out of course.

2149
01:53:39,280 --> 01:53:43,120
I got to turn around and be like, why is nobody here?

2150
01:53:43,120 --> 01:53:44,240
That's a problem.

2151
01:53:44,240 --> 01:53:46,400
That's a hole.

2152
01:53:46,400 --> 01:53:51,320
If you look at it from that lens, get on the stand mill a couple of times a week.

2153
01:53:51,320 --> 01:53:52,320
Keep yourself together.

2154
01:53:52,320 --> 01:53:53,320
Don't fall apart.

2155
01:53:53,320 --> 01:53:56,320
Just because you got on doesn't mean you stop.

2156
01:53:56,320 --> 01:53:59,000
You're in the best shape of your life.

2157
01:53:59,000 --> 01:54:06,000
Traditionally, and probably you know, it's backwards when the new guy gets in.

2158
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:08,240
Fitness is the last thing people think about.

2159
01:54:08,240 --> 01:54:11,960
It's like drilling on, make sure you learn your job of course, but this guy's falling

2160
01:54:11,960 --> 01:54:15,640
apart because he's not allowed to work out now.

2161
01:54:15,640 --> 01:54:20,400
It's frowned upon if the probe has to get in the gym and work, do a 30 minute workout.

2162
01:54:20,400 --> 01:54:21,600
I would love that to be different.

2163
01:54:21,600 --> 01:54:28,600
I would love it to be every firehouse is supporting that because you can work together and make

2164
01:54:28,600 --> 01:54:29,740
everyone better.

2165
01:54:29,740 --> 01:54:32,660
You can do team workouts.

2166
01:54:32,660 --> 01:54:33,660
You can drill.

2167
01:54:33,660 --> 01:54:35,000
I drill my probes when I'm in the train.

2168
01:54:35,000 --> 01:54:40,240
I'll come up 20 minutes and we'll do all the radio codes and we'll lift and we'll talk

2169
01:54:40,240 --> 01:54:41,240
about it.

2170
01:54:41,240 --> 01:54:45,560
It's nothing crazy, but I'm trying to change the culture.

2171
01:54:45,560 --> 01:54:48,640
You're looking at tradition versus, you know, fire fighters hate change and they hate the

2172
01:54:48,640 --> 01:54:49,640
way things are.

2173
01:54:49,640 --> 01:54:51,000
That's the problem we have.

2174
01:54:51,000 --> 01:54:54,600
When you're trying to make these big leaps forward in something that's brand new, it's

2175
01:54:54,600 --> 01:54:59,080
difficult, but I'm very secure in it because I'm living it.

2176
01:54:59,080 --> 01:55:01,120
I'm not just talking bullshit.

2177
01:55:01,120 --> 01:55:02,120
Absolutely.

2178
01:55:02,120 --> 01:55:06,080
Well, the very last question before we make sure where everyone knows where to find you

2179
01:55:06,080 --> 01:55:14,160
and TRE online, what do you do to decompress apart from TRE?

2180
01:55:14,160 --> 01:55:16,400
I do a lot of breathing.

2181
01:55:16,400 --> 01:55:18,360
I've set my home up where I can go outside.

2182
01:55:18,360 --> 01:55:20,800
I built this deck with plants and everything like that.

2183
01:55:20,800 --> 01:55:22,240
So serene spaces.

2184
01:55:22,240 --> 01:55:25,120
I go on hikes with my kids.

2185
01:55:25,120 --> 01:55:26,120
I like that.

2186
01:55:26,120 --> 01:55:29,160
That could also be stressing, not de-stressing.

2187
01:55:29,160 --> 01:55:32,600
It depends on the day and how they are.

2188
01:55:32,600 --> 01:55:36,320
Ground and beach, feet in the sand, stare at the water.

2189
01:55:36,320 --> 01:55:37,320
I'm outside all the time.

2190
01:55:37,320 --> 01:55:38,320
I like to be inside a lot.

2191
01:55:38,320 --> 01:55:40,840
Like when the sun's out, I'm outside.

2192
01:55:40,840 --> 01:55:44,240
I just appreciate being out in nature and doing that because we live in the city.

2193
01:55:44,240 --> 01:55:45,240
We work in the city.

2194
01:55:45,240 --> 01:55:47,040
I'm always driving in traffic.

2195
01:55:47,040 --> 01:55:50,360
So I like to get away from that as much as I can.

2196
01:55:50,360 --> 01:55:54,120
That kind of helps keep me balanced and relaxed.

2197
01:55:54,120 --> 01:55:59,400
But if I can, I breathe deep, slow breathing, belly diaphragm breathing.

2198
01:55:59,400 --> 01:56:00,400
That helps me relax.

2199
01:56:00,400 --> 01:56:02,880
I do that constantly all day, especially before I'm about to yell at my kids.

2200
01:56:02,880 --> 01:56:08,600
I go, take a breath before you say something you don't want to.

2201
01:56:08,600 --> 01:56:09,600
It's hard.

2202
01:56:09,600 --> 01:56:10,600
It's a constant battle.

2203
01:56:10,600 --> 01:56:13,600
But those are some of the things I do.

2204
01:56:13,600 --> 01:56:14,600
Exercise.

2205
01:56:14,600 --> 01:56:15,600
I work out.

2206
01:56:15,600 --> 01:56:16,600
Go to my gym.

2207
01:56:16,600 --> 01:56:17,600
Bang out some stuff.

2208
01:56:17,600 --> 01:56:18,600
Do some squats.

2209
01:56:18,600 --> 01:56:19,600
I don't know.

2210
01:56:19,600 --> 01:56:20,600
That helps me.

2211
01:56:20,600 --> 01:56:21,600
That's my thing.

2212
01:56:21,600 --> 01:56:22,880
I've always done it that way.

2213
01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:28,000
And then honestly, one of the biggest things I do is just helping people.

2214
01:56:28,000 --> 01:56:29,000
I always love helping people.

2215
01:56:29,000 --> 01:56:33,520
No matter what they got going on, if I can work with them, if we can train, you ask me

2216
01:56:33,520 --> 01:56:38,040
a question, I get excited about it and I'll help them and then I'll feel accomplished.

2217
01:56:38,040 --> 01:56:40,440
And that just keeps me in a nice positive state too.

2218
01:56:40,440 --> 01:56:43,840
So those are a few of the things.

2219
01:56:43,840 --> 01:56:44,840
Beautiful.

2220
01:56:44,840 --> 01:56:49,560
Well, for people listening then, where are the best places online to find TRE and then

2221
01:56:49,560 --> 01:56:52,080
you personally?

2222
01:56:52,080 --> 01:56:57,280
So right now, if you Google Dr. Braseli, Dr. David Braseli, B-E-R-C-E-L-I, a bunch of

2223
01:56:57,280 --> 01:56:58,880
information will come up in videos.

2224
01:56:58,880 --> 01:56:59,880
His books will come up.

2225
01:56:59,880 --> 01:57:03,480
T-R-E is again all over the globe.

2226
01:57:03,480 --> 01:57:12,400
But for the Fire Service, we have firetribe.org, F-Y-R-T-R-I-B-E.

2227
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:13,400
It's an infant website.

2228
01:57:13,400 --> 01:57:15,440
So if some of the buttons don't work, I apologize.

2229
01:57:15,440 --> 01:57:16,440
We're getting there.

2230
01:57:16,440 --> 01:57:19,600
I don't have a webmaster yet.

2231
01:57:19,600 --> 01:57:24,800
But we're looking at that as a resource for first responders to go to if they need assistance

2232
01:57:24,800 --> 01:57:27,960
with TRE and our workshops and things that we can offer.

2233
01:57:27,960 --> 01:57:31,120
We're looking to collaborate with organizations as well.

2234
01:57:31,120 --> 01:57:40,680
And through the Fire Department, obviously, you can reach me, my name, fdny, robert.safoli.fdny.

2235
01:57:40,680 --> 01:57:43,120
And we have a Gmail as well, so firetribe.gmail.

2236
01:57:43,120 --> 01:57:47,360
And we're on Instagram as well.

2237
01:57:47,360 --> 01:57:48,640
This is a new thing for us.

2238
01:57:48,640 --> 01:57:49,640
We want to get it out there.

2239
01:57:49,640 --> 01:57:50,640
It's hard.

2240
01:57:50,640 --> 01:57:54,240
We don't really know that side of everything just yet.

2241
01:57:54,240 --> 01:57:56,600
We're dumb firemen, right?

2242
01:57:56,600 --> 01:58:00,840
But I think the idea is plain and the mission is good.

2243
01:58:00,840 --> 01:58:03,800
We'll get the help as we keep talking about it.

2244
01:58:03,800 --> 01:58:05,840
We've gotten progress already.

2245
01:58:05,840 --> 01:58:09,800
My wife's a huge benefit to me.

2246
01:58:09,800 --> 01:58:11,600
She's such a supportive soul.

2247
01:58:11,600 --> 01:58:14,720
She's kind of helped me with the website, doing all the stuff I just don't know how

2248
01:58:14,720 --> 01:58:15,720
to do.

2249
01:58:15,720 --> 01:58:17,720
She designs stuff and makes things look good.

2250
01:58:17,720 --> 01:58:21,840
So she's helped us along the way, kind of get that out there, design the logo, just

2251
01:58:21,840 --> 01:58:25,080
get our name and our recognition out there.

2252
01:58:25,080 --> 01:58:26,760
I think we have a two-pronged approach.

2253
01:58:26,760 --> 01:58:30,880
I think we have the nonprofit side, which is our retirees and all that.

2254
01:58:30,880 --> 01:58:33,440
And then we have the internal stuff that we've been doing.

2255
01:58:33,440 --> 01:58:38,720
And now with the opportunity to share that with the WFR, I believe it'll be a good resource

2256
01:58:38,720 --> 01:58:43,360
for them to take on and their holistic approach, it kind of matches their intentions.

2257
01:58:43,360 --> 01:58:47,440
So you'll be hearing a lot about it coming down the road, I imagine.

2258
01:58:47,440 --> 01:58:50,560
Well, Rob, I just want to say thank you so much.

2259
01:58:50,560 --> 01:58:54,840
It's been such an amazing conversation from obviously some of your experiences in uniform,

2260
01:58:54,840 --> 01:58:56,200
but also bringing TRE.

2261
01:58:56,200 --> 01:58:58,960
I mean, I literally, this is what's so sad.

2262
01:58:58,960 --> 01:59:03,260
And it's the same with the sleep deprivation conversation when I was so engrossed in not

2263
01:59:03,260 --> 01:59:09,400
only the fire service, but the exercise physiology side as well, is that not realizing the absolute

2264
01:59:09,400 --> 01:59:11,600
massive impact that that has.

2265
01:59:11,600 --> 01:59:16,520
But again, here I am in the health and wellness space in the fire service and not heard of

2266
01:59:16,520 --> 01:59:17,520
TRE either.

2267
01:59:17,520 --> 01:59:19,560
So it's been such an invaluable conversation.

2268
01:59:19,560 --> 01:59:21,440
I'm looking forward to trying it myself.

2269
01:59:21,440 --> 01:59:25,040
And I want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time today and coming

2270
01:59:25,040 --> 01:59:26,840
on the Behind the Shield podcast.

2271
01:59:26,840 --> 01:59:32,200
Well, I appreciate you more than you know, and opportunities like this are coming up

2272
01:59:32,200 --> 01:59:34,200
and I followed you.

2273
01:59:34,200 --> 01:59:39,000
I think you have a great platform and this information should be getting out there.

2274
01:59:39,000 --> 01:59:40,000
That's what I'm here for.

2275
01:59:40,000 --> 01:59:43,800
I mean, deliver the message and hopefully get this out to the masses, yourself included.

2276
01:59:43,800 --> 01:59:44,800
We should set that up.

2277
01:59:44,800 --> 01:59:45,800
I'll get you through it.

2278
01:59:45,800 --> 01:59:46,800
It'll be all good.

2279
01:59:46,800 --> 01:59:48,200
And we'll go from there.

2280
01:59:48,200 --> 01:59:49,200
But yeah, it's going to help, man.

2281
01:59:49,200 --> 01:59:54,160
I tell you, it's been a life saving tool for me right now.

2282
01:59:54,160 --> 02:00:16,520
And I wish I had it sooner.