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Welcome to episode 404 of Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing.

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And this week, it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show,

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the two French brothers behind the 9-11 documentary,

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November 13th and their most recent one, Notre Dame, Jules and Gédion Nordei.

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Now, I have literally been waiting four years to talk to these two incredible men

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after being moved so powerfully by their documentaries

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and understanding their passion for the first responder community, specifically the fire service.

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So I was humbled.

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I was honored to sit down with them and had so many questions that this conversation went on for two and a half hours.

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As you will hear, Gédion had to actually leave and go and get his children from school because I kept him so long.

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But they witnessed firsthand the tragedy in New York City.

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And then they documented the tragedy in Paris and then obviously the Notre Dame fire as well,

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amongst other documentaries that they've done on top of that.

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So I can't recommend strongly enough to listen to this from beginning to end.

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In the midst of what we have been through this last year and some of the things that we've already been exposed to in 2021,

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this restores the faith in humanity.

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You hear the beautiful stories that came out of some of these horrendous terrorist attacks.

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Now, before we get to that conversation, as I say every single time,

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please just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback.

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I truly do love reading your feedback and leave a rating.

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Every five star rating makes this podcast more visible for others to find it.

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And this is a free library for you, Planet Earth.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women's stories

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so I can get them to everyone else who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Jules and Gédion Naudet.

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Enjoy.

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So Jules and Gédion, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the podcast today.

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Pleasure to be here. Thank you for having us. Most welcome. Thank you.

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Now, despite the accidents, where are we actually finding you on Planet Earth today?

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I'm in Connecticut.

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I'm in New York City, but and for the record, I wish I could be talking like Sylvester Stallone.

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I took classes, but growing up in Paris, France, I guess, yeah, it was too late.

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I was asked the other day if I was popular with the girls when I was younger because of the English accent.

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I told her no, because everyone was English, so no one cared.

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But now I don't know if you have the same thing, but when you move to a different country,

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people find your accent intriguing.

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The French did go a long way. That's true.

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Beautiful. All right. Well, I love to start at the very beginning.

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So where were you born? And then tell me about your family dynamic, what your parents did,

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and if you had any other siblings.

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Roger Leon, you want to start?

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OK, OK, OK. I don't get much credit being the first one, of course, because the second one,

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Jules got all the brain and the rest. But yeah, we were born in both in Paris.

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Our parents are Parisian and crazy enough, they decided when we were respectively 18 and 16 years old,

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that they wanted to change their life and move to New York City.

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And at that time, it was New York was like was like in the movies.

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It was Starkey and Hutch and everything that you could possibly imagine when you're growing up,

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watching a series on TV. And we arrive in New York and right away we knew we wanted to make

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to continue to make documentaries and films. That was something that we had started years before.

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Maybe you can talk about that, Jules.

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So I think the to go back before. So we were our family environment, our father,

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was the editor in chief of a magazine called Photo, which was all about photojournalism

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and photography in general. So we were raised very early on with these great masters of photojournalism

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between Cartier-Bresson and all of the others who were, you know, coming for lunch with our parents

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and our father in particular. And so as little kids, we would listen to these incredible stories

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of how to capture a moment with them. It was with one click, with one image.

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But we were struck by that. And our parents were absolute cinephiles and we were watching movies

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every single night. On Sunday night, where in France, you normally around midnight, you have

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classics that that air, whether it is a Cure-Sawa or a Renoir or whatever it was, or Orson Welles.

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And actually, they would force us to watch it. They thought it was important for our general culture.

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And the next day, they would write us a note that we'll give to our teachers saying, oh,

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I'm terribly sorry. But yesterday, you know, the rules of the game by Renoir was on TV. And we

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thought it was very important. So of course, all the teachers were convinced we were writing our

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notes ourselves. And we call our parents and our parents would invite them to lunch because we're

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honestly very bad in school. And so they needed to do some kind of work around that. And so they

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would invite our teachers to school and said, you know, but this is the importance of cinema and

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what it teaches you, etc. So very early on, we were raised with, you know, moving images and

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photography as examples on how to tell a story for us. It morphed a little bit into documentaries

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instead of photography. And I think we got our father lent us our first camera when Gedeon was

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12. I was nine. We're still in the same dynamic. He was kind of the director. I was the actor at

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that time. And that's where we started and continuing into continuing being interested

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in documentary filmmaking in particular. And I think the first program we made was at Gedeon's

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high school, where we did a kind of a profile of the students and the teachers, which ended up being

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banned by the school. But we set up secret screenings inside the school during the high

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school time, where of course you would see all the teachers screaming in vain while the students are

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playing Dungeon and Dragon in the back of the class or whatever it was. But so that's where we

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got our first taste for, you know, kind of the fly on the wall kind of documentary style that

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we really like, but also to show the humanity of things in our own immature way at that time.

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But when we arrived to the United States and in New York, which was always the biggest dream of

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our parents, who always told us, you know, one day kids, we will go there. And so being raised

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with American cinema and series and all that, you know, when we arrived, Gedeon was 19, I was 16.

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It was almost like it felt like coming home. You know, everything was bigger. Everything was wilder,

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was more extreme. And we felt right at home because the electricity that we would have when

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we would walk this, you know, just on you walk one block in New York and you've met, you've

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crossed paths with people from 20 different countries with different crazy adventures, probably

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that happened to them. And so that energy, you know, sustained us and fed us very early on. And

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then we went to NYU and, and, and, and try to, to learn at least professionally of how to do

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documentaries and, and in film in general. But it was really that awakening moment of coming to New

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York and feeling of that, that electricity that you can feel and that possibility that there is no,

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everything is possible that, you know, cliche that, you know, the American dream is really was a

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reality for us, of course. Yeah. And so it's interesting how you, as you mentioned, your

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observation was immediately how diverse New York was. And I had the same thing, even, even in England,

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I grew up in the farm, a very rural part of England. So when I would go to Heathrow airport

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on ski trips or whatever, I'd always have the same thing. Like what a beautiful tapestry

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that airport was of the world. And then London was the same thing. So it's, it's then crazy. And

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obviously, as we're recording this, there's some lunacy going on in this country at the moment

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that sometimes people in this country don't see just how diverse and beautiful their own country

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actually is. No, and we're lucky. I think it's particular for us from a European descent like

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this, where, you know, you're we're small, and we're big at the same time, you know, you can

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take the car or the train and in two hours, you can be in a different country. And then an hour,

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two hours later, you in another country after that. So I think it's really I've always found

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it a strength to be able to be in the middle of all these different cultures. And I think it's a

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plus to realize that we're not alone. And there's, it's an incredible and beautiful and crazy world

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that there and we enriched by the people in it. Absolutely. Well, Gérion, getting back to your

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childhood in France or in Paris specifically, obviously, we're going to talk about, you know,

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the Bataclan and that horrendous day a little bit later. But being younger, I talk about this a lot

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when I grew up in England, we had the IRA bombing. So we were exposed to terrorism when I was young.

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I remember a lot of the hijackings and plane bombings through your lens. Obviously, you had

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no intention of documenting terrorist attacks when you were becoming filmmakers. Were there any kind

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of tragedies in France during your childhood, prior to obviously moving to the US?

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Indeed, the France and Paris in particular, where we grew up, experienced the terror,

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the horror of terrorism in the 80s. It was the first bombs attack. And we remember quite well,

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you know, sometimes our parents asking us to just to give us to give them a call, right,

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right coming out from school to make sure it was safe to, to come home, walking back home by ourselves.

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We remember bombing exploding near a father's office. And that was, yes, that was quite scary.

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It was very much an environment then.

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Yeah, no, terrorism was something we that we all knew about. It continues. After we arrived in the

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US, you had the big wave in the mid and early 90s of bombings in the air, the the the subway

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in Paris were almost every three days a bomb with a pie bomb with nails and all that would explode

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in a in a busy, busy subway train. So France, as always, just like you, you were born with it,

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you would listen to it on the radio and on the news at night with your parents, most probably.

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It was it permeated. We terrorism was something we were aware of. And even though we had not seen it

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firsthand, it was never very far away. Yeah. And who was behind the attacks that you were seeing in

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Paris? Was that again, fundamentalist Islam? Yeah, I think it was the PLO, the Palestinian

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Palestinian Liberation Front. And I think you had also wave of course, it can be extremists.

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So there was a bit of both. It was but these were at that time, I would say were not more

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religious base more politically based. It was more a political struggle. Result is the same.

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Terrorism is terrorism and the trauma and the death is the same. I think there it was not

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on a religious basis as we've seen later after that. Yeah. All right. Well, then so now you're

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in New York. So lead me through your education and then how you found yourself approaching FDNY.

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Should you pick up this one? Yeah, well, it's always been a shameful tale basically, because

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here we are arriving in New York in the luggage of our parents. And I'm 19, Jules is 16. And

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we are incredibly lucky that one of us is accepted to teach NYU film school, the famous one.

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Still have no idea how they got us in. But so only one of us is there and

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because our parents simply cannot afford to pay to tuition. And so Jules and I have this crazy idea

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to pretend that as I'm officially registered to pretend that Jules also is officially registered.

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And I'm going to take twice as many credits. And I'm going to give half of the classes to Jules.

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I'm going to take the directing classes and he's going to take the producing classes.

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And to this day, it's insane to think that they never realized what happened.

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And for four years, Jules got to NYU completely illegally.

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But so I'm the only one who officially graduated. We will be forever grateful to NYU and whenever

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we can, we thank them because it was an amazing school. It's one of those schools where

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you don't have to do so much theory. You can just take the camera and go out and experiment.

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And that's the only way you're really going to learn. And that's what NYU would let us do.

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But yes, that was the only way to learn. I mean, yeah, we had to beg and cheat.

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And this led us to, as we were finishing NYU, we reconnected with a friend from Paris who had been

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at Gédéon's high school and who had moved to New York and who had married an amazing guy

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who was an actor but was also a firefighter, James Hanlon. And after numerous French dinners,

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which would go very, very late into the night, James would tell us these incredible tales of

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life in a New York City firefighter and especially life in a firehouse, that kind of amazing,

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mysterious and fascinating brotherhood. And so we came up with the idea altogether to what if we do

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a documentary on a firehouse and especially on a young firefighter and what better way to do it

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than to use a young probie, a rookie firefighter in his probation period, which lasts nine months.

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And we thought it was great. We kind of knew it was a very long shot because I think the last time

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that cameras had been allowed by the FDNY in a firehouse was actually from the BBC. In 1975,

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a documentary called The Bronx is Burning came out. Fascinating. You should appreciate that.

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But it's really at the heyday where, you know, when you would look at a baseball game at

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a Yankee Stadium, they would pan in the back and you had plume of smoke and like five different

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parts of the Bronx were burning. And so since 1975, no one had been allowed to film in a

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firehouse. And so coming to the fire department with James, who was a firefighter, with I think

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our thesis film at NYU, which was about amateur boxer in Spanish Harlem, which is a very human

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and very, you know, good way to look at things. I think they appreciated that and they decided

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to give us a chance. We knew the parameter was we wanted to follow every single time that the

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probie would be, whether he was doing a 24 hour shift or a 12 hour shift, would be there. And so

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the idea was, well, we're going to follow for nine months and we'll see what happens.

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The problem is that no one was interested in that. We had sent letters to every broadcasters in the

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U.S. in France and everyone kept telling us, oh, it's very nice, but honestly, firefighters don't

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really interest anyone. And so as usual, you know, the beg, steal and borrow, we didn't steal, but we

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borrowed from friends and best friends and we took day jobs to be able to pay for the tapes.

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I was a Xerox copy person, which of course now sounds antiquated, but you know, I was

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in a production company just making Xeroxes and Gedeon, what were you doing for that?

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Oh, I was a buzz boy and a very bad one at that. So the idea was to find ways. And

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once we had the, at least the budget, which was not much to buy the cameras and buy the tapes at

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that time, we worked with the fire department to try to kind of do a casting in a way, select

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the probie. So for this, we went to the the the fire Academy Academy, the rock and talk to the new

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class and introduce ourselves and said, this is who we are. This is what we've done. And this is

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what we'd like the project we would like to do. And so out of, I don't know, a class of 200, there

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was about 50 that were interested in at least talking to us. We, you see in the documentary,

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the kind of the interviews we do at first, and as soon as we met Tony Benetatos, it literally,

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as we say, he was the one, you know, he had that naivety and that enthusiasm of use. And especially,

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he had no link to the fire department, contrary to a lot of others who were sons, grandsons,

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cousins, or nephews of firefighter themselves. Here was a blank slate. And what better way for

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the audience to identify with them because as Tony would come to the to the firehouse and

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discover this world, the through his eyes, the audience will have the same way discovering

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everything being a virgin to that world. And so we got the okay, he agreed to participate. He just

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he finished the the training of the rock and was assigned on I think July 2 or something like that,

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June 3, I think to come to the to the firehouse. Beautiful. And just prior to that, this occurred

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to me, had you had any exposure with the sapeur pompier in Paris itself? No, no, no, never. Well,

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just I guess like every young boy, you know, fascination with the big rick trucks and the

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French one in particular, who looks like they're coming up from a Star Wars movie when they put

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their C3PO helmet down. And you know, it was always kind of the normal fascination, but I

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actually, you know, never been to a fire never met any of them socially or any other way. So that was

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a dream come true. All this was kind of a lifelong little boy's dream coming true.

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Beautiful. Well, I know he refers to himself, I think you talk about him as black clouds and

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white clouds. And he was definitely a white cloud. It's funny because outside FDNY, a lot of people

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revere the city. And I think it's based more on the war years that you know, every station is just

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burning, you know, every shift. And the reality is most of the busy departments, even more inner city,

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we don't get as much fire in, you know, 2021 as those guys did in the 70s and 80s. So kind of

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walk me through your expectation of what these shifts are going to look like and what his first

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few weeks actually look like. So we start, of course, you know, our imagination will be going

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to a fire every day is going to be amazing babies will be saved and all that. So, but the reality is

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actually what was complicated is, as you can imagine, two little frogs, as they would call

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us coming with cameras in a place where normally what stays in the firehouse, you know, what happens

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in the firehouse stays in the firehouse. And here you have two strange French creatures with

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incredible accents who are filming them every move. So their first go to even though, you know,

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the captain of the of the engine had agreed and the captain of the engine in a house where you have

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the engine and the truck, the captain of the engine is the captain of the house. And so they

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had agreed. But we as soon as we came in, every time we would film them, they would come up with

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the most incredible curse words I had ever seen and to this day ever heard. And so, of course,

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we couldn't use anything at all. And so whenever we would be there, they would do that. So we

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decided, OK, it's going to be a little bit more complicated than we thought. Also, by the fact

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that whenever Tony would work, there was no job whatsoever. It was just, you know, as you said,

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it was a fantastic cooking show, which is in itself is something else, which is actually,

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I think, is the way we kind of got to their to to to for them to trust us. James had told us very

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early on, don't worry, they're going to, you know, make fun of you mercifully until, you know,

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they accept you and you will see the change almost overnight. There is a moment where,

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you know, they start from making fun of you to, you know, actually from not talking to you to

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making fun of you and making fun of you. That's a good that's a good that's a good sign. And the

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more they really write, the more you're accepted. And so we kind of knew of that. But I remembered

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when they would not really talk to us or that to look at us was a kind of a strange look. I

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remembered that our grandmother told us, you know, if you want to for certain people, if you want to

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get to them, go through their stomach. So I started cooking quite a lot. And we did lasagna, we did

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the french fries that didn't come out from a bag and frozen. And, you know, all of these things.

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And I think that really was one of the big parts of this. And there may be not that bad, you know,

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they cook okay. So so that was the start of at least of it. Yeah. Well, it's funny, because

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there's that one scene where you make lamb. And I'm sure to again, European eyes, you're like,

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this is going to be enough. American portions are very different. So so what was that day like for

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you? It's strange enough for me, and you know, you'll tell it was the best day of that entire

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project. You know, we're cooking this amazing meal, which I was very proud. And it was, you know,

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it was a leg of lamb, flageolet beans and, and mashed potatoes. You cannot go more French than

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this with the little sauce that goes with it and all that. But except that like a moron, you know,

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yes, I forgot to realize that I instead of doing one leg of lamb, you know, I should have had at

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least 12 of them. You know, so we cook and we set the meal and everyone is in a fantastic mood.

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And everyone is really making fun of us. And everyone is laughing and you can feel that

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fantastic energy. And I remember the moment, you know, being in the kind of in the doorway,

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looking at everyone and everyone is having a great time and you know, and James, you know,

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telling stories and all that. And you see, and I remember reflecting, this is the moment, finally,

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we're accepted. This is amazing. And as you know, craziness and reality being stranger than fiction,

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it is the night of September 10. And that we would not know that the next day, everything would

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change. But that night was a fantastic night. Even though then later on during the night, we had like

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five false alarms, and we barely slept. And since we were still, you know, completely

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terrorized, missing a fire, we would sleep completely dressed shoes on, the cameras and

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on the shoulder like this on the on the couch, ready to pounce at any movement and terrorized

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that we would miss it or we'd be in the bathroom when the bell runs out. You know, the normal

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firefighters probably kind of worries. But and then the next day was completely different.

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Absolutely. Well, and that's what's so heartbreaking, I think with 9-11, with November 13,

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even with the Notre Dame documentary is, especially with those two where lives were lost,

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is you take a moment to paint the picture of what the morning was like, you know, and so obviously,

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we'll talk about in a second, the calls that they ran right before it happened. And then in

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November 13, the people setting up for the day in the cafes and so, so let's talk about that. So

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what was the morning like prior to, you know, when the world changed as it were?

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It's a regular morning. I mean, right away, we wake up and we know that around seven, eight

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o'clock in the morning, there's going to be a shift. And so Tony Beletatos will just go home. And

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but right away, we call our parents like we often do, and they live in Paris. And we tell them,

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look, it was another another night where it was no fire. But but but we really believe we we

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connecting with the guys, they finally accepting us and then and they're very happy for us. And we

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hang up with our parents and we say, I'll speak to you later. Have a great day. And and and right

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when we hang up, I think the the the alarm ring and it's an order of gas on VZ and church,

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something like that juice if I'm not mistaken, Lispinard, Lispinard. And and so Jules who who

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has a camera that follows the chief, the chief car and that time, it's chief Pfeiffer, battalion

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chief Joseph Pfeiffer, who's on duty. So Jules jump on the with the chief in his car. And the

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the truck follows. And I'm with the second camera and I'm my job is to follow the rookie Tony

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at all times, except that Tony had just just barely been relieved. And so it is is relieved.

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The other rookie who gets on the engine and follows the chief and Jules and the truck. I stay in

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the firehouse with Tony and basically minutes pass and and and and I guess you should tell the story

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because this is all this is unbeknownst to me. When I take the the call and I go in the chief's car,

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you have to understand we had set up our responsibility. Jedeon, which is the oldest

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and the accomplished cameraman, was the one filming Tony at all times. And so me being kind

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of the newbie and not and filming for the first time we had thought but you know, it will be an

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interesting point of view to have the chief also the battalion chief. So we have two different

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insights into the job, the man who go inside the fire and the strategy part of the chief itself.

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And so, you know, I've been doing that all summer. Most of the chiefs know me pretty well. Chief

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Pfeiffer, we've seen each other. He's kind of used to the old French guy in the back of his SUV

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with a camera. So it's nothing, you know. And so I when I arrive at Lespenard and and sure,

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honestly, it's a pretty normal day. It's gorgeous. I remember it's a blue blue sky. I think I'm

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thinking about, you know, going voting later on because it was the mayoral election of New York

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at that time, right on that day. And so I arrived and just film and I'm sure she was there. But you

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know, at the fire scene, there's a lot of people there's a lot of options. So I don't see him. But

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for me, he's, you know, with Tony somewhere. I don't I concentrate on what I'm supposed to do.

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And since I'm, you know, I'm new at this, I always kind of do the cliche, I'm going to film kind of

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the landmark that is right in front of me so I can kind of get a good point of to find myself. So

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it's always the World Trade Center is there. So I always kind of do the pants from the World

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Trade Center moving back to the to the guys, you know, I'm thinking in my head how I'm not going

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to mess this up. And today, one's going to scream at me if I don't do take them. So you know, it's

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still the little brother older brother kind of thing. So you know, just practicing filming,

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I see a chief FIFER who sees that there is a slight order of gas. But you know, Con Edison,

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which is the gas company is called standard procedures. There's nothing, you know, we don't

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smell a lot of gas. So we're not concerned at all. But we stay around as is some what you're

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supposed to do until the Con Edison arrives. And as we're milling around, and I'm filming

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chief FIFER, I carry a small camera, it's about like this, I carry it normally at my hip. So I

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can look around and see what's happening. And I look on the little LCD screen to kind of see what

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I'm what is in frame. And as I'm filming the chief, I remember, we hear this kind of loud roar,

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they're getting a bit louder, you know, we're used to two planes in New York City, but this one was

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different. So I remember looking up and seeing in between two building behind two building,

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a plane that goes in the back of it, and it's pretty large, it's pretty fast, it's pretty low,

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I can read American online, American airline on the on the back of it. And then, you know,

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it kind of disappears behind a building. And I'm looking reflects my camera is already on. So I,

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you know, turn to follow its trajectory, it's what what's going to happen. And it is it reappears

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behind the building, it crashes into one world trade. It's the moment where, which is normal,

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but time completely kind of dilates, it's, you know, seconds seem to take minutes. And it's very

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strange, I think it's a you have such a sensory overload, that being able to process that kind of

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slows down everything. So between between what I'm seeing, and what I'm thinking, I cannot make sense

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of the two together. And I'm brought back kind of to reality by the sound, there was a delay in the

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explosion, which I hear, and see the the firefighters all around kind of being removed from that

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microsecond of shock. And then everyone jumps into their their trucks, and, and the chief

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jumps into his car, I follow him immediately. And then we dash to the to the World Trade Center,

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where we're there in about, you know, a minute and a half flat. Since it's early on, it's 846.

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There's not much people that time. And but we're cruising. And, and what I don't remember at that

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time, even though I'm filming continuously, is the chief actually says, and I will find that later,

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when I rewatch the tape, G Pfeiffer saying, you know, it looked like a direct attack, the one was

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a the World Trade Center was was hit, and then gives where they should meet one the first one

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inside one World Trade Center and the other one as a secondary staging post a little bit further.

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But, you know, it's, it's, it's hard to really think concretely, I'm just concentrating on what

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I'm seeing trying to do to film the chief and his driver had fehi and all that. But

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it's kind of chaos in my mind at that point. So you want to jump back and forth, we can do back

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and forth between GD was perspective and mine, maybe please, please. Okay, well, so I'm in the

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firehouse is completely empty firehouse with just Tony, the the the probie firefighter.

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And he's about to leave to go home. When suddenly there's a large, frantic knock at the firehouse

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front door, and he opened the door and there is this guy who says, you guys have to come there is

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there is there is an explosion, there's a plane that hit the the World Trade Center,

387
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:08,880
come right away. And it makes no sense. Tony looks at me, I look at Tony with the firehouse

388
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:16,000
is completely empty. I just pick up the camera and I go around the corner on Church Street.

389
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:24,800
And I see a gigantic hole in one World Trade Center with smoke coming out of it. And it's this

390
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:35,120
moment where suddenly, I feel terribly guilty for the entire summer. I wished that something would

391
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:45,840
go on that we would see a fire. And suddenly here it is a plane I just crashed into the World

392
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:51,840
Trade Center. This is just too big. This is too. And and you know, it's a stupid reaction, you

393
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:59,360
know, why should I feel guilty? I didn't make it happen. But I did. And so so I'm thinking, damn,

394
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:05,520
where is juice and it must be with with everyone and I must be heading toward the World Trade

395
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:15,600
Center. So I go back, I tell Tony that there is indeed a gigantic hole in the World Trade Center.

396
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:22,400
And I pick up all the equipment and I start walking down to Church Street, to the World Trade Center.

397
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:31,520
And same with Jules, you know, it's very hard to comprehend filming the reaction of the people.

398
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:42,400
It's like the entire planet was there looking at looking up. And and quickly just a riot. Remember

399
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:52,320
I remember arriving down the World Trade Center, this gigantic boom explosion. And it was the second

400
00:39:52,320 --> 00:40:01,200
plane just hitting the the South Tower. And and yeah, that's that's those twilight zone moment

401
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:09,760
where you it's just too much. You this is no accident anymore. But you have no idea what to do.

402
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:17,120
The only thing I knew was Jules was at the World Trade Center. Those two towers were where where

403
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:26,480
were burning and now cops were telling everybody to to evacuate. So I just walked back to the to the

404
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:33,200
firehouse. I think the the crazy part that where it becomes, you know, it kind of goes on the of

405
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:37,680
the rail, which is already when we see the first plane. I remember for me was a series of just

406
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:44,080
getting things from from from from bad to worse, you know, arriving at the finally at the World

407
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:48,720
Trade Center by parking right under the awning of one World Trade, the North Tower, and seeing the

408
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:53,600
chief gets out to start to put his bunker gear. And of course, I asked him, you know, can I come

409
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:59,440
in with you? And he tells me, yes, you know, please don't, don't leave my site. And I think in him,

410
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:04,560
we talked after after about it, he didn't want me to start being around. He didn't want me if he

411
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:09,600
didn't want me if he thought that if he told me not to go in, I would be around it. And he knew it

412
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:17,440
was dangerous. And so we went in. And I think what as soon as we go in, I see these two people who

413
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:25,040
are burning alive. And it made me almost remember these these pictures that we had seen when we were

414
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:31,680
young people, the the Vietnam the photo of war photographers were taken in the Vietnam

415
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:37,280
war with, you know, a little girl burning and all that all these images came back flooding into me

416
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:43,440
and because here, you know, having my brother and I have lived very sheltered life up to that point,

417
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:48,560
you know, I think the death the closest we had seen was a relative in a in a suit, you know,

418
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:55,520
in a coffin that you pay your respects to but here the immediacy and the horror of it and and

419
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:02,560
and and the sight the sound is the smell everything was so horrible that I think that gauge at least

420
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:09,840
in my part, and I think she only did the same. I censored myself from that moment on seeing seeing

421
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,360
which was a defense mechanism. I don't think there's anything noble about what I wanted to

422
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:18,240
do and all that. I think I was at first trying to protect myself from the horror of the image that

423
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:23,840
is still steer seared into my brain until still today, that no one should see this,

424
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:28,800
there is a certain respect of in life, but in death also. And so from that moment on,

425
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:35,040
I would not have also separately had made that same decision filming the dead or the or the

426
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:41,120
wooden in a way that was gratuitous, we didn't want that. And so as I come in the the the World

427
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,840
Trade Center, first I see that all the windows outside have been blown out. It looks very strange

428
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:50,080
that you have that smell of kerosene downstairs, you don't know what happened. We would learn later

429
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:55,280
on that it was the jet fuel that went down and a broken elevator elevator shaft that created that

430
00:42:55,280 --> 00:43:00,640
fireball in the lobby. And that burned these people in these right there that I was seeing.

431
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:07,840
And so as I'm going to the left, following the chief still, we hear one of our guys from the I

432
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:14,240
think the truck, Jamal, who actually use the extinguisher and puts down the person and that

433
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:20,080
person is then taken outside, I think that person lived actually. And, and then I follow the chief

434
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:26,800
and we go to the the fire control area, which is right to the left when you come in. And and then,

435
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:33,600
you know, firefighters start streaming in it's a non stop sirens guys coming in checking in

436
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:40,960
going up. And here I don't feel worried in a way I feel, you know, I'm surrounded by these amazing,

437
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:46,880
you know, kind of superhero who don't wear maybe uniforms or or or capes. But you know,

438
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:52,480
they're bunker gear. It's for me, it's a giant s in a way, it's kind of a Superman. But and and

439
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,960
also, I feel that, you know, I've seen that the fire is very high above me. So I don't feel

440
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:02,640
concerned. I there's not a million year that in my I have any thought that these towers can ever

441
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:09,440
come down. I think that's not something you even realize can happen. And as I'm filming around

442
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:16,080
filming the everyone we hear the loud explosion. And I remember looking up and filming and we see

443
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:22,160
flaming debris falling on the other side of the courtyard. And someone comes in and said another

444
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:26,800
plane has just hit the other tower. And that's where for me, I realized that it's not an accident.

445
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,960
Up to that point, I was sure it was an accident, or at least I didn't question the what was

446
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:36,240
happening. And here it seems to be you know, we're under attack. And that seems to be what what is

447
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:42,880
happening. Everything changes again, you know, the the stress level comes in and because it's it's

448
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:51,200
now you're you're you're you're hunted in a way you feel like a target and and and so the the stress

449
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:59,360
for me, I keep it inside, but I think it manifests as being frantically filming. And as a way, you

450
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:04,000
know, our brain protects us in the most strangest way. So for me, it was making sure I keep filming

451
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:10,000
because it gave me something to do, made sure I had to clean the lens. So I would, you know,

452
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,640
the image will be good. And once again, you know, my brother will will will not be disappointed with

453
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:19,200
me and will be proud of the work I do. And so it was always trying to it was almost like,

454
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:25,520
I don't know, something I would I would repeat almost like a Zen kind of thing, you know,

455
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:30,160
I would count when I would film people to make sure I would keep them in frame for about five to

456
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:34,720
10 seconds. So I would count that loud or in my head. And so it was a way to count my nerves and

457
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:41,680
give me something to do. And seeing everything happening through the little LCD screen in a way

458
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:47,040
was a way to looking at it through a window, you know, and then unfortunately started the

459
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:52,960
the loud bangs and explosion that would hear that we would very soon realize it was actually people

460
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:59,520
who were jumping from the the the the higher floors. And that was one of the hardest part,

461
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:05,440
you know, because it's it's absolutely surreal, you don't see it. But you hear it and the sound

462
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:12,320
represents, you know, the death of a person. And intellectually to realize that every time you hear

463
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:17,600
that, and I would hear it, you know, over 20 times, if not more, you know, that's what that

464
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:22,240
sounds represents. And with that sounds is a life and what all what the life represents. And it's,

465
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:32,400
it's, it's kind of traumatic to try to understand that. But then you did if you want to pick up on

466
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:45,280
your your end. So, meanwhile, I walk my way back to the firehouse. And it's still empty. It's only

467
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:55,280
the probie Tony there, manning the firehouse by himself. And there is this monitor. And,

468
00:46:56,240 --> 00:47:05,280
and he's watching TV and he's completely helpless like like, like I am. There is nothing he can do

469
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:18,640
except except soon. One, then two, then three firefighters arrive directly from their home,

470
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:23,760
the lucky one who managed to cross the bridge or the tunnel fast enough

471
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:35,760
to to to arrive at the firehouse. And, and I'm thinking there is no way I'm going to walk back

472
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:42,960
by myself to the to the World Trade Center. I'm not a firefighter and I'm going to be pushed away

473
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:53,920
again by by by cops and FBI agents who are now you know, all around the and and so I waited until

474
00:47:56,080 --> 00:48:05,760
Steve Rogers arrived, the veteran firefighter in the house, who right away said, I'm going to pick

475
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:14,480
up my where I'm going to go there on my pickup truck. And he assembled three of his guy. And,

476
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:22,960
and I said, Can I come? I need to find out what's going on. And Jules is over there. And I cannot

477
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:28,240
stay here by myself doing nothing. And he said yes. And I was so grateful that he said yes.

478
00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:36,720
And so I jumped with him and then and three other guys. And he drive his pickup truck like a madman

479
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:43,520
down Church Street. We arrived we park kind of a block or two from the World Trade Center.

480
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:53,920
The vision of downtown collapse already the South Towers. Yes, so sorry, so sorry. While we are the

481
00:48:53,920 --> 00:49:06,000
firehouse. The the South Tower, the second one to be hit collapse. It happened at the same time that

482
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:18,000
I'm I lose Tony Benenatos, the the probie, who basically rush outside with an old retired

483
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:27,600
retired fire chief. Chief Burns, an incredible character who also managed to come home, even

484
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:37,200
though he was a retired chief. He just he just saw Tony in the firehouse. He just pick up some gear.

485
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:43,680
And he said, Tony, let's go, let's go help people. And that was insane to see except that I lost them

486
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:50,640
in the crowd. So I came back anyway. So here I am in the pickup truck with with Steve,

487
00:49:52,000 --> 00:50:02,240
the veteran of the house, as three other guys, and, and driving like like a madman. And the street is

488
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:11,680
completely white. People are why everybody is covered by this dust. We start to walk toward

489
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:19,520
the North Tower, the only one left standing. And when we arrive on busy streets, there's a street

490
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:26,560
adjacent to the to the tower. I take a bit more time, I don't walk as fast as they do.

491
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:33,920
I don't know, there's something just at that point, so terrifying that I don't know why,

492
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:43,120
but my legs are not really walking me anymore. And I'm kind of do stand up just stupidly filming.

493
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:52,960
And that's when this gigantic war happened. And it was like in those

494
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:58,320
catastrophe movie, you know, you just look up and you see in slow motion,

495
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:06,240
the top of this skyscraper falling on you. And, and the next thing I know, I'm running

496
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:19,040
a few, a few feet away to empty fire engine. And I go up, I open the door, I crawl myself,

497
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:27,280
I hear someone behind me getting in just a few seconds after me. And that's it. I'm

498
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:35,520
just waiting to die because the debris I can hear and feel I falling all around the fire engine.

499
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:42,640
Some are falling on it, I can I can hear the windows exploding. And I'm just waiting for the

500
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:50,240
moment of the big one crashing us. And remembering, you know, as seconds as Drew said, second would

501
00:51:50,240 --> 00:51:58,160
would feel like minutes, feeling quite angry, pissed off that I was not dead already, you know, the

502
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:06,240
waiting for for your death was so annoying. So so, so horrible. So you just wanted it to be over. And

503
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:14,400
anyways, your turn, I guess. Yeah. Well, but to go back, is that James, is that what you're

504
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:18,960
interested in? I don't know if you want us to skip? No, no, no. As long as you have time, I

505
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:23,520
I've I've set aside as much time as it takes to tell your story today. So please take your time.

506
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:27,120
This is I'm honored that I'm sitting here listening to this. So thank you.

507
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:36,880
No problem. So to go back a little bit. So when after the the the the the second plane has hit,

508
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:42,080
you know, it's a chaotic time in the in the lobby, there's more and more people coming more and more

509
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:49,360
people going up, including Chief Pfeiffer's brother, Kevin, from Engine 33, a lieutenant who's

510
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:54,800
who, who, who goes to see his brother and his brother gives up, gives him the assignment to go

511
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:59,040
up. And unfortunately, it will be the last time they will see each other because Chief Pfeiffer's

512
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:07,680
brother would die in the in the North Tower. And as people are coming in, I see the the the the the

513
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:14,080
the the the preacher of the of the firehouse, the the fire chaplain, fire chaplain, sorry, the chaplain,

514
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:21,440
the chaplain, the father judge, which I had seen before at other events and things like that. But

515
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:26,800
here normally, you know, he's always kind of a blisterous guy, always a smile on his face,

516
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:32,160
always a quick word, a quick quick smile. And here it's absolutely the opposite. He has an

517
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:37,840
incredibly serious demeanor. He looks like he's mumbling. Some people would say he was praying,

518
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,960
and and you know, not making eye contact with people. And it was very striking. I remember

519
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:48,480
filming him because he was, you know, he's really a beloved figure in the in the in the fire

520
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:54,080
department and was always there for people. And I see a lot of the people and what strikes me is

521
00:53:54,080 --> 00:54:01,120
really the look on their faces. Then it's not fear because there's a lot of people who are

522
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:11,200
not afraid. But the level of concern, the level of realization of the how big is the job, how

523
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:16,080
dangerous it's going to be, the realization of the loss of life that has already taken place

524
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:22,320
that will continue to take place, and the most probable injuries to firefighters as they're going

525
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:31,200
up 80 floors of 80 floors, using the stairs with 50 pounds on the minimum on their on their shoulders.

526
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:39,120
You can feel that that that that determination and I'm always amazed, you know, we're giant groupies

527
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:46,560
of firefighters, all first responders for firefighters in particular. And to see that

528
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:53,680
determination that that courage that, you know, what for us makes them kind of the best of all

529
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:59,520
of us is this determination to regardless of danger to themselves, they will be there and they will

530
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:07,520
jump into a building on fire willingly, eagerly to be able to to to to save people's life.

531
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:11,920
And here I could see it firsthand, even though they knew which was going to be bad, they knew that

532
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:17,280
some of them or themselves had will would lose their lives. There was no hesitation on the

533
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:26,400
country. The frustration was that they couldn't get up there fast enough. And as things are trying

534
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:33,520
to quiet down in a way, even though we're getting, you know, you at that point, you have rumors that,

535
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:39,760
you know, everything has been hit that the Sears Tower, that Chicago, that Los Angeles, that pretty

536
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:43,520
much everything, you know, World War Three has just started because you don't know anything.

537
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:49,120
In the middle of the eye of the storm, you're cut off from everything. I think people in

538
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:54,640
watching it on television anywhere else in the world knew much more than we did. And so when

539
00:55:56,560 --> 00:56:01,520
things have quiet down in the lobby, most people are firefighters have gone up. The chief are

540
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:06,960
mingling around trying to find their strategy. And and I remember I'm filming Chief Pfeiffer,

541
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:13,680
he's the first chief on site. And so pretty consequent. And as I'm filming him, we hear a

542
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:19,680
very loud roar once again coming from above us. And I remember we're all all of us are looking up

543
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:26,000
and suddenly everyone scatters. And so I follow them and I see that they run into a little entrance

544
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:31,360
that would lead to another I think five World Trade. And it's because that sound is almost like

545
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:35,120
the sound of death. You know, it's kind of that freight train of death coming towards you, you

546
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,800
know, it's coming, you have no idea what's happening, but you know, this is bad. And so as I

547
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:46,000
follow everyone, we start going up a an escalator. I remember just stopping and saying, Okay, what am

548
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:50,160
I running? You know, I don't know what this is, but this is death, and I'm going to die. And

549
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:55,280
unfortunately, it's the sad reality of it. And I remember being surprised as the kind of the Zen

550
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:03,440
account that I had in my mind. Again, time is completely distended. I have the impression this

551
00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:08,640
lasts for half an hour, even though it's only a few a few seconds. But I remember that long

552
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:14,720
conversation in my head of, okay, I'm about to die. And I'm kind of pissed off at that and sad

553
00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:20,080
because you know, I have so many people I love that I'll be missing and all that. But in my mind,

554
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:25,600
it's almost like that's, you know, that I know a door opens and kind of, okay, I'm going to

555
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:30,400
walk through that and how we'll see what happens after I remember having a prayer saying, you know,

556
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:35,680
now is the time I'm not a believer. So I think, you know, I could use a sign. aging my bets, you

557
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:41,920
guess, I couldn't hurt. And, you know, no, no atheist in a foxhole, as they say, yes, it happens.

558
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:51,040
But you and as that roar is coming, and the darkness engulfs us and, and that dust or fog,

559
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:55,440
I don't know what it is, is covering us. It's really kind of, you know, we're suddenly crossing

560
00:57:55,440 --> 00:58:02,400
into the the underworld, the abyss, the dentist inferno, it's what it looks like. And then that

561
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:09,040
incredible quietness, almost like, you know, during a first heavy snow in the city where all

562
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:14,240
the sounds of this of the streets disappears, it's exactly that everything is muffled everything.

563
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:19,680
And then, you know, like, like, sound suddenly comes in, and you hear, you know, little sound,

564
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:25,120
you see someone saying, is everybody okay? And of course, I'm the first one to pipe up

565
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:29,200
because I'm afraid they're going to leave me behind. Okay, you know, kind of, you know,

566
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:35,120
desperately crying in a way. And, you know, I turn on the big floodlight I have on my camera,

567
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:39,120
which ends up being good, because the chiefs normally don't have all a lot of equipment on

568
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:43,680
them as they're downstairs. And so they someone sees the light and say, you with the light,

569
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:49,520
come downstairs, come help us. And what I would discover is that they had just found the body of

570
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:55,840
a father judge and they were trying to see if he had a pulse. And unfortunately, he had died,

571
00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:02,480
probably being hit by a piece of debris that that broke his neck. And so I think he died

572
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:07,440
very quickly there. But unfortunately, there was nothing we could do. And so very quickly,

573
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:12,400
they decide we have no idea what's happening. We have no idea. So it's the the the South

574
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:16,560
Terrace collapse, as far as we're concerned, it's probably a partial collapse in the North Tower.

575
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:24,160
And that's why Chief Pfeiffer immediately doesn't hesitate doesn't in about five seconds after that,

576
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:32,800
that huge explosion or roar or whatever it was, says, okay, Battalion one to to all units in in

577
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:37,440
in tower one, evacuate the building and make sure it's repeated, make sure it's understood.

578
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:41,760
And once he's repeated it about two or three times and make sure it's been repeated, then,

579
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:48,160
then he says, Okay, we need to get out of here. It's dangerous. The some of the chiefs start to

580
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:55,520
carry the the body of a father judge. And we go up that escalator that would lead to the right to the

581
00:59:55,520 --> 01:00:03,120
West Street right there. And but it's we still see debris is falling, people are still jumping,

582
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:08,160
and it's still very dangerous. So Chief Pfeiffer says, Okay, we're going to go to use the footbridge

583
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:14,720
that links the World Trade Center to the financial center, and we'll be safer because we'll be

584
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:19,680
protected to from whatever falls. And the other chief says, Okay, we'll stay here, we'll wait for

585
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:26,160
you to make sure it's safe. So here comes that kind of very frustrating moment where we do go

586
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:29,520
back and forth where now I watch it, I want to scream at the television knowing that there is

587
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:35,600
a hidden clock, you know, that is that is running there. And as I go there with the chief with his

588
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:41,680
show, Ferret, Fahy, and someone else, you know, we arrive on the other side, it seems to be okay.

589
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:46,720
And we try to radio the guys back and say, Okay, it's safe. Come there. We know, no, no news, no

590
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:50,960
nothing. We go back over there once again, again, and frustrating. But you know, we don't know

591
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:56,000
anything at that point. They're not here. We go back again, go down. And here we come out on the

592
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:00,960
other side of the World Trade Center to a scene which is completely as they all said, is completely

593
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:06,880
different. It's like kind of a nuclear winter, you have ash on the on the floor, you have pieces of

594
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:14,240
debris papers everywhere. And even though I film what looks like the pieces and the and debris of

595
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:20,800
the of the South tower, in my head, I refuse to recognize that we've had no information that said

596
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:25,440
the towers come down, or they were on the radios are made a made a made a that's it. And when I

597
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:30,400
look at it, I'm again, I'm lying to myself saying, Oh, no, the Wall Trade, the second towers is

598
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:36,000
probably here is behind the smoke or from where I am, I cannot see it. That's fine. And then the

599
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:43,440
chief goes back to the secondary position he had given at the beginning and to regroup with the

600
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:49,600
with the chief we're in the shadow of the one World Trade. I'm still cleaning my camera, I'm still

601
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:54,160
doing things and kind of disoriented, not knowing what's happening and but still following the chief

602
01:01:54,160 --> 01:02:01,120
and as the chief is called by by by other firefighters there, we're about to go back into

603
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:06,800
World Trade Center is as you know, there's more people are up there with more people we need to

604
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:13,120
save. And as we do, I think about two or three paces, we hear that roar again, except this time

605
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:21,280
I can look up and I see that kind of mushroom of the tower falling on us. Once again, I think first

606
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:28,960
reflex running like crazy. I think if I were broken Olympic record, how fast I was running.

607
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:35,360
But you realize that I was trying to run a 120 story building in the middle of the street was

608
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:41,040
fairly stupid. And as I'm running, I see two trucks there. And I remember a conversation we had over

609
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:45,680
the summer was the firefighter that said, you know, sometime when you have collapses, pockets

610
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:50,480
will be created and you have to look for certain things, you know, that could maybe sustain a

611
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:54,320
pocket when you have a collapse. So it's crazy the kind of things you remember in the heat of

612
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:59,360
moment. And so I see these two trucks and so well, that's a good idea. So I put myself on the floor,

613
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:03,600
my camera is on the side, it's still running, our lights is still on because I forgot about it.

614
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:10,000
And that's where you see these images of that giant cloud that comes and then it's sucked back

615
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:14,640
in and the papers. And in the middle of all that, I hear someone who jumps on top of me.

616
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:21,600
And as debris is falling all around and I hear the debris hit, I feel it a little bit,

617
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:28,800
the person on top of me being hit also. And once again, here I'm absolutely not Zen. I love to

618
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:33,920
admit I'm exactly like my brother. I'm pissed off. Like, okay, what the hell happened? I survived.

619
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:37,760
I'm supposed to have survived. I cannot have another one now. First one, I'm okay. You know,

620
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:42,080
I could deal with it. This is unfair. I'm out of the building. How is this happening?

621
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:50,400
Well, you asked for a sign, so. Yeah, that was charming in my plea to hire people after that.

622
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:58,080
But here I am. And again, the strange thing is sound completely disappears again after that.

623
01:03:58,080 --> 01:04:02,720
In that moment, which again, my head is probably seven minutes long, even though it's 12 seconds

624
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:09,920
or something, it's very no sound or nothing. The person on top of me gets up and I'm like,

625
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:15,760
the person on top of me gets up and I hear a voice and okay, get up. And I recognize it's Chief

626
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:21,680
Pfeiffer. We get up because the question he had seen me, I'm in a t-shirt and a pair of jeans.

627
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:25,440
He needs a bunker gear. And he sees it. He says, okay, what is that moron doing in the middle of

628
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:30,960
the street? And you know, it looks like beach wear. So come on. So he decided to, because he felt that

629
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:36,240
I was his pro-B in a way. And we have a very strong link, Chief Pfeiffer and I, which we still see to

630
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:41,680
this day, each other very often. We spoke every week. You know, he's the man who saved my life.

631
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:48,720
But I remember going, when he gets up, we don't see anything. There was clouds everywhere. We hear

632
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:54,320
gunshots, which was very frightening because here we hear pops all over the place. And it's like,

633
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:59,760
oh, okay, that's it. Now they're in a terrorist or whatever it is. Our in the streets with AK-47s.

634
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:04,160
It's the end of the world where we'll be shot like rabbits. And what we would discover after,

635
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:11,920
it was actually a munition inside of a police truck that had caught fire. And so the munition

636
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:16,560
was popping all over the place. And so, but when you don't know that and you know, it's kind of,

637
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:26,400
and so after that, I found a little deli right off where I go with Chief Pfeiffer and I'm no

638
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:34,800
longer in any shape to film anything. I give a call, I think, to my fiance and tell her that

639
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:38,720
we're okay, that I don't know where Gideon is, but I'm sure he'll be fine. And you know, I'm a little

640
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:45,840
shook up, we're okay. And after that, I think I filmed sporadically, but I'm in no way or shape

641
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:51,600
able to do that. All I do is look for Gideon, which, funnily enough, or strangely enough,

642
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:56,080
was actually probably 50 feet away from me when the second tower collapsed, except we went in

643
01:05:56,080 --> 01:06:09,200
different directions and fortunately both survived. Yeah. So I've just jumped into this fire engine

644
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:21,120
when hearing the tower collapsing right in on top of me. And I heard and I saw someone else,

645
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:30,800
a guy jumping into the engine truck right behind me. And I guess we just waited for a moment to

646
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:39,040
come and for a big piece of the tower to crash us. And this moment, crazy enough, never happened.

647
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:51,040
Unfortunately, some people who had found refuge behind the truck, the engine, where we were,

648
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:58,000
in the back, didn't got so lucky because a big piece fell on them, but we got okay.

649
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:06,880
And I would later discover that the guy who jumped behind me was an FBI special agent

650
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:18,880
who had previously already saved 20 people from one World Trade Center and five World Trade Center.

651
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:28,000
I mean, the guy had been already risking his life saving 20 people, burned and injured,

652
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:38,560
found himself outside when the second tower collapsed. So this guy, me, with a camera,

653
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:48,080
jumping into an engine truck and just decided to follow me. And so the noise stopped. The tower

654
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:55,760
has collapsed. We're still alive. And this guy, I don't know who he is, I will let her discover

655
01:07:55,760 --> 01:08:02,000
again that he's a special agent, an FBI, tells me, all right, let's get out. And we get out,

656
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:07,600
except we don't get out on the sidewalk. It's not the sidewalk anymore. It's trucks. I mean,

657
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:18,960
it's cars on fire. There is nothing flat on which you walk. It's just pieces of stones and

658
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:29,120
whatever pieces of the building. And as Jules, I have a light on my camera and we managed to

659
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:37,680
make a few steps. And suddenly I hear this guy screaming at me saying, come back, come back.

660
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:44,400
You have the light. I found someone help me. And I turned the lights to the camera. I did not

661
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:52,480
realize he was not with me anymore. And this guy again saved someone else on those few steps that

662
01:08:52,480 --> 01:09:01,440
we that when we got out of the engine, he had found someone else that he was carrying by himself,

663
01:09:01,440 --> 01:09:07,440
except this guy that he found that was hurt was quite heavy and he definitely needed help. So,

664
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:16,640
of course, we each had one arm of this hurt guy, you know, with us and with the light of the camera,

665
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:27,600
we were able to navigate. And it took us a block or two to find help. And I just then just walked

666
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:36,400
back to the firehouse and each step to the firehouse was this kind of shock and this

667
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:43,520
question, you know, like, like, like, like, you know, where is Jules? How could he possibly

668
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:50,960
survive that? Where are the guys of the firehouse? What's going on? And, and unfortunately,

669
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:57,040
I arrived at the firehouse and the firehouse is almost empty. And there is suddenly no word

670
01:09:57,040 --> 01:10:06,800
from Jules. In fact, guys from guys would arrive almost one by one, like driplet of water here and

671
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:13,840
there. And I would ask them if they had seen Jules. I mean, he was with them. They must have seen him.

672
01:10:14,480 --> 01:10:21,440
And, and they were not, you know, they said, no, no, sorry. No, no, no, Jules. We don't know where

673
01:10:21,440 --> 01:10:30,080
he is. And anyway, it took it took almost almost over two hours for Jules to, to, to, to, to come

674
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:39,680
back. And, and that was, yeah, that was the best reunion. Yeah, because what happened is that after

675
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:47,120
I stopped filming, I would kind of go back and forth to all the streets I could find and ask every

676
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:52,560
firefighter, you know, have you seen the guys from engine seven and ladder one and, you know, a little

677
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:58,960
French guy with a camera and what was infuriating is that none of them would meet my eyes. And so

678
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:05,440
I thought that was a bad sign. None of them would sustain looking into my eyes and said, no, no,

679
01:11:05,440 --> 01:11:12,640
sorry. And, you know, so I had a bad feeling that this was going to be that I unfortunately knew the

680
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:17,120
answer that they were all dead. And so I dragged my feet. It took me a long time. It took me two

681
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:23,600
hours to come back to the, to the firehouse on the way. I found guys from the engine. So I was

682
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:28,160
asking, but did you see Gideon? He said, no, no, he was not with us. I didn't see him. And we finally

683
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:33,440
arrived back at the firehouse and you have this scene that, that, that is in the film, because

684
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:38,560
what you have to understand is that one of our best friend that was working not too far. And as

685
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:45,840
soon as this happened, knew we were there, came to see us, Dory and, and it was we should be only in

686
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:51,040
the kitchen. And when I arrived, I put my camera down and he picks it up and he films the moment

687
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:55,520
where we, we, we see each other and we, we fall into each other's arms. And I think, you know,

688
01:11:55,520 --> 01:12:01,440
yes, we're probably 28 and 31 at that time. But when I see these images, we're six and nine

689
01:12:01,440 --> 01:12:07,760
years old, I think. And I think there is that moment. And still remember when I listened to

690
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:13,040
it in French, I said, you know, I filmed everything, don't worry. And I have all the tapes again.

691
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:18,560
It's yeah, you go through crazy things when, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're in a traumatic

692
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:26,800
experience, I think. But what was amazing and was we had survived and that was unbelievable. But the

693
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:33,680
entire firehouse one by one, all these firefighters, all these friends that we had, we had made,

694
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:39,920
suddenly all came back one after the other, as improbable as it was. And the last one being the

695
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:44,880
probie talk about reality being strange in this fiction, it, you know, you, you, it would have

696
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:49,760
been a movie, it would have thought to be a very bad script. But you know, here was that the last

697
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:54,960
guy that we're missing was there was Tony and he came back, alas, and everyone was okay. In the

698
01:12:54,960 --> 01:13:01,520
firehouse, which was, you know, complicated, because then that that the search part, you know,

699
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:08,000
started, and which was the most difficult thing of all, because, you know, people were fine the

700
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:12,640
first day, but that was it. And you kept hoping it said, has to be hundreds, if not thousands of

701
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:18,720
people alive, it's it has to. And the more we dug, because we then went back with the guys and

702
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:24,880
film as they were as they were digging, sometimes digging ourselves, they were, they were no one to

703
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:31,840
be fine. And then unfortunately, it became not to rescue, but a recovery effort, which, personally,

704
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:39,360
I think was more complicated, psychologically. Because I think on September 11, and that's just

705
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:46,080
a personal way I feel that on September 11, I was, you know, I was more reacting, I was not,

706
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:53,600
I was reacting to what's happening. No time to think no time to really go through psychologically

707
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:58,960
what's happening. But the recovery effort as you're digging, and as you're, you know, you're looking

708
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:04,080
for the remains of people, you have too much time on your hand, and you have too much time to process

709
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:09,680
what you're seeing and what you're what you're feeling when you're smelling. And that's, that's a complicated

710
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:15,520
thing, at least personally, for me, it was but, but I think what sustained us was the

711
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:24,880
of individuals who are willing to risk their life for each other and for us. And here, even though,

712
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:30,480
you know, the place we would know we know the time, you know, was full of dangerous gases and

713
01:14:30,480 --> 01:14:37,280
horrible things that we all breezed in, all they wanted to do is dig further is dig longer,

714
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:42,400
we would have to pull guys out by the from the piles and the chief saying, No, no, you have to

715
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:47,600
take a break, you've been digging for 12 hours non stop, go back to the firehouse, take a two hour

716
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:51,840
rest, then you can come back and people's were almost fighting, they didn't want to leave, it was

717
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:57,840
really impressive to see how, you know, New Yorkers, you know, you were not the nicest people in the

718
01:14:57,840 --> 01:15:01,680
world, you know, try to take a steal a cab from another New Yorker, you'll I think, you know,

719
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:08,000
crowbar will come out the brass knuckles. But here, at that moment, that spirit of we're all in this

720
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:14,480
together to see all New Yorkers caring for each other to see everyone, we were all in the same

721
01:15:14,480 --> 01:15:20,640
boat and to see the entire world was like that. But that, I think that drove what we wanted to do

722
01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:26,400
and what we I think we succeeded in doing in the end, is to show that what we had seen at the

723
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:32,080
moment where the worst of humanity is revealed, that's terrorism, which is, I think, you know,

724
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:38,960
the basest human instinct of just instilling terror to other, the best of all of us is there,

725
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:44,640
that kindness, that courage, that that willingness to say no, and to put your life on the line to

726
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:51,280
help others is was present everywhere you looked, it was present in the firefighters, selflessly

727
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:57,840
going up to and risking their lives, it was in the people coming down the stairs and carrying

728
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:03,280
each other, sometimes 80 flights carrying other people, it was every normal New Yorker coming to

729
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:09,680
their firehouse coming to everyone, it was the steelworkers who all came and worked on the site,

730
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:16,960
it was that sense of humanity that wave of saying no to the horror. And that was, I think, what I

731
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:22,720
keep from all that is, is that giant lesson of humanity that this has taught me.

732
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:25,760
Jad, you want anything to add to that?

733
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:30,880
No, no, no. Jules said it perfectly. It's

734
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:41,360
yes, no, at the end of the day, 20 years later,

735
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:49,360
it's you cannot help but be eternally eternally grateful to

736
01:16:50,960 --> 01:17:01,600
to the spirit that for Jules and I is embedded in the first responders and and the firefighters,

737
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:11,760
because whoever you have in the firehouse, it's like it's like a club, it's like a it's like a

738
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:20,160
class with your schoolmates, it's like it's like an insane mix of people.

739
01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:29,440
And and but there is there is something very special about us because

740
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:37,440
they despite all their differences and their fights, sometimes they

741
01:17:37,440 --> 01:17:51,840
they have a higher calling to be to to to to to witness this higher calling, to actually see people

742
01:17:51,840 --> 01:18:10,320
ready to be better, to to to go beyond what normal people, you know, ask of themselves on a daily basis.

743
01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:17,600
To see such courage. There is nothing more inspiring.

744
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:31,120
And it's true. It's this is what this is what basically cure a trauma or cure feeling down

745
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:39,200
or cure any any moment where we're thinking the world is too insane and too crazy is just to

746
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:47,120
just for Jules and I or if I measured it's just to go back to this day and the days that followed

747
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:54,720
to be able to to have witnessed the best in humanity, as Jules said. And it is it is embodied

748
01:18:54,720 --> 01:19:03,840
in those crazy, insane guys and women who live in a firehouse. Yeah, if you if you're an alien and

749
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:10,800
you arrive on planet Earth and you want to see the best of humanity, go to go to the places of work

750
01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:19,360
of first responders. Maybe not go to to to see where politicians live, go to a firehouse.

751
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:25,120
You know, you know what we're about to do. We will see you'll see the best of us. And

752
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:33,920
you'll see the best of us. And so this yeah, you have the trauma on one hand and the the effect

753
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:43,920
and the damages. But if you have seen what we've seen, then this will heal or will at least help me

754
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:52,720
deal with the trauma in the best way. And so 20 years later, so grateful to have seen it.

755
01:19:52,720 --> 01:20:00,080
Yeah, well, I mean, the thing coming from a first responders lens of being a fireman and being so

756
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:03,760
proud because I see that what you're talking about and everyone else you don't see it in yourself,

757
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:08,560
of course, because that would be narcissism. But but you know, you recognize it in the men

758
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:13,440
and women that you work alongside. But one of the things that I've always said about this about the

759
01:20:13,440 --> 01:20:18,960
Paris attacks, you know, is, you know, all the obviously similar events, the London attacks,

760
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:25,440
is the heroism of the civilians, just like you said, just just exact. There's no perfect analogy

761
01:20:25,440 --> 01:20:31,360
than Chief Pfeiffer jumping on your back, because you're there in your beachwear, still, you know,

762
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:38,640
upfront being prepared to assist to document to all these things. And the stories of heroism of

763
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:43,600
regular people that worked in the world trade, you know, just now this this invasion of the

764
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:47,440
government building, I see stories of heroism coming out of that that had, you know, they

765
01:20:47,440 --> 01:20:52,960
weren't expecting a group of people to invade their office. So I think that I don't know if

766
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:59,520
you have the same, but one of the most powerful things I saw around September last year 2020 is

767
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:08,080
as a stranger year as it were as it was, was the phrase, I miss 912. I think people identify that

768
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:14,560
day, just like you said, as the best of the humanity, all colors, creeds, races, religions,

769
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:22,880
sexual orientations came together to fight evil and to do good. And unfortunately, it's sad,

770
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:29,360
but it's always how it happens. We saw it after the attacks of November 13. We saw it even when

771
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:35,760
Notre Dame was burning. Unfortunately, you know, we're complicated human beings that it takes,

772
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:41,760
unfortunately, a tragedy to remind of us the best of us. So hopefully, it will, it can happen without

773
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:46,720
something traumatic happening. But at least the good part, it's in us. So really, that's the

774
01:21:46,720 --> 01:21:55,360
first part is there. It's our ability to love and to be better and to sacrifice ourselves is in all

775
01:21:55,360 --> 01:22:02,160
of us. And I think at least that's a that's pretty good silver lining. Absolutely. Well, you mentioned

776
01:22:02,160 --> 01:22:09,440
Paris before we move on to there. I do want to talk about the mental domino effect and the physical

777
01:22:09,440 --> 01:22:13,600
domino effect because as we were talking before we started recording and it's a topic that I've

778
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:20,480
talked about already on the show, we're losing hundreds more men and women post 9-11. There's,

779
01:22:20,480 --> 01:22:25,200
we lost 343 firefighters specifically. And I know we're getting close to that number now

780
01:22:25,200 --> 01:22:30,160
in post 9-11 illness. That's not including law enforcement, as you mentioned, steel workers,

781
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:36,000
civilians. So what have you seen being literally, you couldn't have gotten any closer to that event

782
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:43,520
and being so close to the city of New York and FDNY, NYPD, the last 20 years, the ripple effect

783
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:50,000
of that horrendous day? Well, I think everything goes back to that day. And as I said it, you know,

784
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:55,840
that day, you could have told everyone who was there that was between the police officers,

785
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:59,920
the fire department, everyone who was working on the recovery, you could have told them, you know,

786
01:22:59,920 --> 01:23:04,640
this is what we're breathing in is deadly. It's going to be bad. They would have said, I don't

787
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:11,840
care. I need to save people. The problem I have is that unfortunately, politicians abandoned

788
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:16,640
everyone who was there that day, all the first responders, when they refused to take care of

789
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:26,320
ensure that their health would be taken care of, their medical bills, all that. And to think that

790
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:33,760
civilians needed to kind of rise up and go and speak at the Congress and at the Senate to plead

791
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:39,600
and to beg for firefighters and first responders all together to have the medical coverage they

792
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:44,000
needed, I think is a shame. And it needed to be done. It was done several times. John Stewart,

793
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:50,800
in particular, was a great proponent of that and helped a lot with that. But, you know, I've always

794
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:56,320
been, and I'm speaking personally, I've always had a problem with politicians using

795
01:23:56,320 --> 01:24:01,760
tragedies to their own advantage. And the fact of everyone saying, oh, we'll never forget, we'll

796
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:06,800
celebrate them forever. And then, you know, a month later or a year later when they need to actually

797
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:12,320
pay a little bit because our friends are dying and because of they were there and saving people.

798
01:24:12,320 --> 01:24:16,960
And now it's like, well, really, are they really that sick? And did they really need to go there?

799
01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:21,280
I think it's an absolute shame. And it's quite disgusting. So every time we can point it out

800
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:25,680
that let's you know, it's one thing to say let's never forget. It's another to actually doing it

801
01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:30,640
and putting your mouth where you're putting your words where your mouth is, is, you know, take care

802
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:35,600
of these people. These people are here for us every single day throughout the world. Right now,

803
01:24:36,480 --> 01:24:42,880
thousands of firefighters are saving people around the world and in the US also. So let's remember

804
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:48,880
that, you know, it doesn't need a tragedy like 9-11. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen. It's

805
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:53,920
a tragedy like 9-11. Unfortunately, that's what highlighted the amazing work that these people do

806
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:59,360
every single day. But these people are had to be cherished and had to be protected. And everyone who

807
01:25:00,080 --> 01:25:06,800
gave, you know, a little bit of themselves on that day needs to be to be taken care of and all that.

808
01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:11,360
And it's it's I think it's shameful that it takes so long and that we have a fight every five years

809
01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:19,280
to to to to re up the Zagorodibil. And and I think it's you know, it's enough. You know, we

810
01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:24,240
we we we're better than this. If you want to talk about the trauma and you know,

811
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:34,400
of course, of course. It was interesting to to see the the we understand your your show is about,

812
01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:43,520
of course, all first responders. And so please allow us to apologize as we are firefighters

813
01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:49,120
groupies and our experience with firefighters only. We wish we could talk about police and

814
01:25:49,840 --> 01:25:58,480
and construction workers and and everybody else who came. But our experience is with firefighters.

815
01:25:58,480 --> 01:26:06,160
And so and and with firefighters, which we saw a tremendous change in their culture.

816
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:13,600
Yeah. Yeah. When we arrived at the firehouse, when we started filming in the summer of 2001,

817
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:22,240
we we we quickly realized that the culture in the firehouse is a culture of of of being

818
01:26:22,240 --> 01:26:30,080
of being the biggest match show on the planet. I mean, you might discover at the end of the day

819
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:37,040
that they're big teddy bears. But, you know, the way they talk, it's like, oh, my gosh. And and

820
01:26:38,160 --> 01:26:44,560
so so that's that the way they it was that the way it was, you know, you you don't ask for help,

821
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:50,160
you you whatever happened stays in the firehouse. If you have a problem, you talk about it among

822
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:58,560
yourself. You never, never, never ask for help. Except when something as big as 9 11 happen,

823
01:26:59,200 --> 01:27:07,920
you need to ask for help. And those guys didn't. And we saw first. Yeah, they didn't at first. And

824
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:16,000
we saw psychologically how damaging it was not just in the firehouse, but in every single firehouses.

825
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:28,080
And and and people were ringing the alarm, saying, you know, if you don't talk about it,

826
01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:36,720
if you don't go through the normal, if you don't recognize it as true trauma, which has some serious

827
01:27:36,720 --> 01:27:45,840
mental and physical effect, you're going to pay a heavy price. And at first, yeah, many did.

828
01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:55,280
But as years passed, we saw the culture in the FDNY change for the better. And we saw those guys

829
01:27:55,280 --> 01:28:06,320
starting to understand and talk to professionals, help each other. I mean, there's still the, you

830
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:12,880
know, the the basement firehouse therapy that that that is the most amazing one, of course, you know,

831
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:21,120
you have an issue. You talk to the guys, no one else understand better than that. It's not enough.

832
01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:28,160
And this was huge to see this change over the years. And I think 20 years later,

833
01:28:29,280 --> 01:28:37,360
the culture is now very much understanding of what trauma is and means and the horrible

834
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:45,360
effect of post-traumatic disorder. So they're not taking that very seriously. So that's a good thing

835
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:53,280
that came out. Yeah, I think that, as we described before 9-11, you had kind of that superman complex,

836
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:59,840
you know, nothing can hit can get me. I'm stronger than anything. And I think through that and through

837
01:28:59,840 --> 01:29:06,320
the department realizing that and having, you know, these people are now tested physically,

838
01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:11,120
just like all survivors of 9-11, not only physically for the, you know, cancers and all the

839
01:29:11,120 --> 01:29:16,240
horrible things we diseases, unfortunately, a lot of us are suffering from, but also

840
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:21,600
mentally to make sure that everyone is okay, that everyone who needs to talk to a professional

841
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:27,600
therapist, psychiatrist, whatever it is, is there and it took should they always write it took some

842
01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:32,880
time. But I think it's a better department because of it now. Yeah, absolutely. And I had

843
01:29:32,880 --> 01:29:36,320
Nancy Carbone on the show from Friends of Firefighters and what they're doing, I think is

844
01:29:36,320 --> 01:29:44,640
another great asset to FDNY. Exactly. Exactly. All right. Well, then, I know we're already an hour

845
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:49,200
and a half in and we're still in New York in 2001. So, and there's no rush on my end at all. I mean,

846
01:29:50,240 --> 01:29:53,200
it's such a powerful story and I want to give you the time to tell it properly.

847
01:29:54,240 --> 01:30:01,840
For you personally, firstly, what was that journey from that event yourself like? And then the last,

848
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:08,080
the next time I really saw your work come up was obviously after the Paris attacks and that

849
01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:12,800
beautiful documentary that you made, which I think, you know, it is one of my favorite

850
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:17,840
documentary pieces ever. And it's just, I mean, obviously, it's the people, it's the way you shot

851
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:23,680
it. It's again, the fact that you didn't sensationalize any of the deaths or anything like that, but

852
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:30,160
lead me through that period between the two and your own first exposure to the event,

853
01:30:30,160 --> 01:30:38,000
your own first exposure to that attack as a Frenchman. Well, that's, you know, after

854
01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:45,200
doing 9-11, which we, you know, in a way we kept doing over and over because we did many versions

855
01:30:45,200 --> 01:30:50,320
of it and every year, every five years then we wanted to add to it to follow these guys.

856
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:59,760
We did a few documentaries. We did one on the four hour on the White House Chief of Staff,

857
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:03,520
which was kind of a departure of our traditional kind of fly on the wall, but we wanted to try

858
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:11,520
different things and same thing always the way is finding, you know, kind of the person behind the

859
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:15,920
uniform or behind the title, what it's like to be, you know, White House Chief of Staff, the closest

860
01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:23,280
person to a president, even than the first lady. Then we did one on the directors of the CIA,

861
01:31:23,280 --> 01:31:30,640
which is kind of linked a little bit towards terrorism. But then as we were finishing the

862
01:31:30,640 --> 01:31:35,920
one on the CIA, we're editing, we're in New York, receive a phone call of friends saying, you know,

863
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:43,600
do you know what is happening in Paris right now? It was Friday, November 13, 2015. And as the first

864
01:31:45,200 --> 01:31:50,400
news was trying to trickling in, they were talking about bombs at the stadium and then

865
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:59,280
shootings at cafes. And immediately we called our parents who are who live in Paris, who we knew

866
01:31:59,280 --> 01:32:05,120
were in the neighborhood around the 10th and 11th arrondissement. And so here we had a very strange

867
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:10,720
reverse of what had happened on September 11. On September 11, they were the ones in Paris,

868
01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:16,800
agonizing at home and watching on television live as the towers collapsed and being sure that

869
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:20,960
their sons had just died in front of them. And to answer your question from before, it's only the

870
01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:28,880
two of us, it's only the only siblings. And here it was us watching television, not being able to

871
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:33,120
reach our parents knowing they were in the neighborhood and freaking out like they had before.

872
01:32:33,840 --> 01:32:39,280
And, you know, we were born and raised in Paris, we spent, you know, 16 and 19 years there. So

873
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:43,920
and we go back there often. So it's still, you know, it's it's it feels very close to home. And

874
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:50,160
to see that, to see on television that helplessness that you feel of watching on television, not being

875
01:32:50,160 --> 01:32:57,520
able to do anything, not knowing anything. We were devastated like everyone. And we then started, of

876
01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:06,000
course, in the coming days after that, hearing the stories of heroism. But where the it took a turn

877
01:33:06,000 --> 01:33:11,440
is that actually Chief Pfeiffer, so the chief who saved my my life on 9-11, who I'm incredibly close

878
01:33:11,440 --> 01:33:18,640
with, became after 9-11, the chief of the counterterrorism for the fire department of New

879
01:33:18,640 --> 01:33:26,560
York, gave me a call a few weeks later and said, Can you Jules, can you arrange a trip that I could

880
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:32,560
go to Paris in a few months with heads of counterterrorism from different fire departments

881
01:33:32,560 --> 01:33:40,080
in in the US and a couple of FBI people. And we'd like to meet everyone in the French department,

882
01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:47,280
in the French department of government, first responders, hospitals, fire, police, SWAT teams,

883
01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:54,480
etc. to see the lessons we could take from that attack, what work what didn't work. And when

884
01:33:54,480 --> 01:34:00,000
unfortunately, not if but when it happens, we can be ready and put things in place that will help us.

885
01:34:00,720 --> 01:34:07,040
And so we found ourselves in March of 2016, going to Paris, I think I were the delegation of about

886
01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:14,080
12 people. And we went to, I had organized to meet with from the Ministry of the Interior,

887
01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:19,600
the Prime Minister, the heads of the of the police, of the SWAT teams, of the fire department, of the

888
01:34:20,320 --> 01:34:28,080
EMS, etc, etc. And as all these professionals together were talking and describing what had

889
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:39,120
happened, we were kind of I was kind of the the unofficial translator. Here we go. And so we

890
01:34:39,120 --> 01:34:46,320
discovered all of these stories reminded me of what we had lived through on 9-11, the heroism

891
01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:54,080
of the first responders, the heroism of the of the civilians. And after a couple of months,

892
01:34:54,080 --> 01:34:58,880
thinking about it saying, but you know, we have to tell that story, but it's a very complicated

893
01:34:58,880 --> 01:35:05,280
story. And again, we know that, you know, telling a story like this is full of kind of pitfalls of,

894
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:10,400
you know, we have to do it in the right way and be respectful and not be gratuitous, just like we

895
01:35:10,400 --> 01:35:18,320
had done with 9-11. And so we started first to talk to the big organization, the French government,

896
01:35:18,320 --> 01:35:22,000
the head of the fire department, and the head of the police, which I had met through these

897
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:28,160
these trips that I had taken. So and and they all said, okay, they all understood where we're coming

898
01:35:28,160 --> 01:35:33,680
from. They had all seen our 9-11 projects and the others that we had done and and then decided to

899
01:35:34,960 --> 01:35:41,920
and started about a long eight months process of starting to get to the civilians in particular

900
01:35:41,920 --> 01:35:47,120
and the local firefighters that had participated that night and been there. And it took it took a

901
01:35:47,120 --> 01:35:55,280
while. It was it was made easier by the fact that Jadon and I were survivors. And so in ourselves,

902
01:35:55,280 --> 01:36:01,920
we were all part of this very strange club where nobody nobody wants to be a member of, but we are,

903
01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:09,520
you know, the survivors of terrorism. And I think in the way that when we met them, we mostly didn't

904
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:15,600
talk about we wanted to what we wanted to do or their stories, we talked about our story, where we

905
01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:23,200
where we came from, what we lived through the trauma, what how that trauma had a change over

906
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:27,760
the years, because for them, they were watching it was very young guys in a way, their trauma was

907
01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:33,200
still a year old, which is nothing. And so we're looking at us with about that that time 16 years

908
01:36:33,200 --> 01:36:39,520
on automatic experience, were really enabled them to trust us and understand and speak to them in

909
01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:45,760
a way that others could not. And so we then decide, okay, but you know, all these people

910
01:36:45,760 --> 01:36:50,080
are have agreed for us to do it, but where how do we do it? And that's why we came up to do it

911
01:36:50,080 --> 01:36:56,080
with Netflix, because it was kind of the safest place to that will do it justice. We didn't see

912
01:36:56,080 --> 01:37:01,280
the documentary knowing that it was already to be at least three hours long to do it on a normal

913
01:37:01,280 --> 01:37:05,920
network that would then you know, had would have to cut for commercials or for all that.

914
01:37:05,920 --> 01:37:11,280
That was not the forum for that what the platform that we thought we needed was that for people to

915
01:37:11,280 --> 01:37:18,000
watch it when they wanted to stop when they wanted to be able to watch the to the second parts of it

916
01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:23,120
three months later, six months later, two years later, and not to be rushed to watch it and and

917
01:37:23,120 --> 01:37:29,280
to maybe a broadcaster who kind of wanted to do the best rating numbers. That was not what it was

918
01:37:29,280 --> 01:37:36,080
all about. And so we managed to do to and we're very grateful that Netflix gave us the freedom

919
01:37:36,080 --> 01:37:42,240
to do that kind of almost a talking head documentary with very little images, and trust us to say

920
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:50,160
compelling story that that film is kind of the the the others the other end of the spectrum from our

921
01:37:50,160 --> 01:37:56,080
original 911, you know, which we started this is 16 years later, we're much more mature. But in the

922
01:37:56,080 --> 01:38:00,320
way we're treating the exact same subject in two different ways. The first one is with the images

923
01:38:00,320 --> 01:38:06,880
that we film as we were protagonists ourselves and inside the other is more a do what the memoir in

924
01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:14,880
a duty of memory. And so which relies more on on the words of these people. And once again,

925
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:23,680
the courage of the people that that gave us their testimony, and we're candid enough to talk about

926
01:38:23,680 --> 01:38:28,720
what they lived through the civilians, the firefighters, the SWAT members to see that

927
01:38:28,720 --> 01:38:37,760
humanity that same best of us that comes out was so touching that that we wanted we knew we needed

928
01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:44,160
to tell that story. But it's very complimentary to our 911 documentary. Yeah, I mean, it was it

929
01:38:44,160 --> 01:38:48,160
was so incredibly powerful. And like you said, the courage because I mean, I have this on the show

930
01:38:48,160 --> 01:38:53,440
today with the courage that you have to relive that horrific moment to tell the story, knowing

931
01:38:53,440 --> 01:38:57,760
that it's going to help so many people out there. It was the same thing. And I obviously want to

932
01:38:57,760 --> 01:39:02,800
want to get you guys to lead us through that day, at least an overview of it. But the courage that

933
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:09,680
it took to lose a wife, you know, to see a friend that didn't make it, you know, and then to sit

934
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:16,320
there and tell the story. And then also, you know, we'll get into it as well. But but some of the

935
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:20,640
the humor in it amongst all that death and destruction, you know, and we'll talk about that

936
01:39:20,640 --> 01:39:26,320
when we get to that point. But I mean, it was just completely parallel what I saw in 911, what I saw

937
01:39:26,320 --> 01:39:32,480
in 77, you know, with the reports of that and the kind of stiff British upper lip, which I love stiff

938
01:39:32,480 --> 01:39:36,400
upper lip, like screw you terrorists, we're going back to work, maybe very proud to be British.

939
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:41,760
But yeah, I mean, again, but you saw that community, you saw people banding together,

940
01:39:41,760 --> 01:39:49,360
you saw as with 911, the firefighter in a station, waiting for possibly another bullshit call to come

941
01:39:49,360 --> 01:39:56,320
in. And all of a sudden, the worst case scenario and clearly, as with the the men and women and

942
01:39:56,320 --> 01:40:02,480
FDNY and the surrounding agencies, and then the same in Paris, they clearly were prepared,

943
01:40:02,480 --> 01:40:08,240
they'd done the training, they kept themselves fit. So as a responder, it was amazing that when

944
01:40:08,240 --> 01:40:13,920
they were dropped right in the middle of it, that they had to collect themselves. But then they went

945
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:19,120
to work. And through that lens, you know, it to me, they walk the walk, there's no better description

946
01:40:19,120 --> 01:40:25,520
than that. No, it's true. And so to go maybe through for the people who read don't really know

947
01:40:25,520 --> 01:40:33,520
what happened. It's it's it's quite crazy, because so it's a Friday night, mid November, and it's it's

948
01:40:33,520 --> 01:40:41,600
a night where it's actually exceptionally warm and wonderful outside. So Parisian as Parisians are

949
01:40:41,600 --> 01:40:47,040
are most of them are at the cafe, drinking a beer, having a cigarette, all the terraces are full,

950
01:40:47,040 --> 01:40:50,880
it's nice, you know, full of life, we're probably arguing about politics or whatever it is, but

951
01:40:51,680 --> 01:41:00,960
and you have a exhibition match, a soccer match playing the the biggest stadium in Paris,

952
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:10,800
and 70,000 players. And the match is going great. And suddenly a suicide bomber detonates

953
01:41:11,440 --> 01:41:19,360
his explosive vest in the middle of the in front of the stadium outside. No one knows exactly

954
01:41:19,360 --> 01:41:22,880
at that point what is happening. They don't even believe they don't know if it's a terrorist attack,

955
01:41:22,880 --> 01:41:29,920
if it's just you know, an accident or you know, whatever. And the president is president is in

956
01:41:29,920 --> 01:41:40,800
the stadium with the East German counterpart. And over the next I think 33 minutes, three groups of

957
01:41:40,800 --> 01:41:49,920
terrorists would attack three would detonate their suicide bombs, suicide vest outside the stadium.

958
01:41:49,920 --> 01:42:00,640
Six different cafes would be shot by machine guns by a team of roaming terrorists that would drop

959
01:42:00,640 --> 01:42:06,400
them off from their car, spray an entire terrorist, go back in the car, go to the next one.

960
01:42:06,400 --> 01:42:15,360
And at the end of that three more terrorists arriving at a very busy music hall where a concert

961
01:42:15,360 --> 01:42:22,160
of an American rock band is taking place. And we'll start shooting in a theater where there is about

962
01:42:23,200 --> 01:42:30,800
3,000 people. All that within 33 seconds of each other. So imagine on the perspective of first

963
01:42:30,800 --> 01:42:37,440
responders, where you first have reports of bombs in one location, then you're getting

964
01:42:38,800 --> 01:42:43,280
shootings at another, then at another, then at another, then another, then another, then another,

965
01:42:43,280 --> 01:42:50,240
then another. And you had that sense that it's never going to stop. Every time a call would come

966
01:42:50,240 --> 01:42:58,400
in, a different area was under attack by a different terrorist group, commando. And it was

967
01:42:58,400 --> 01:43:03,840
that craziness that on the part of the first responders, police and fire department was

968
01:43:04,880 --> 01:43:13,200
incredibly complicated. And yet, as usual, would rush to the scene. And you see in the documentary

969
01:43:13,200 --> 01:43:19,040
the incredible work of the firefighters who are the first responders, the first one who arrived.

970
01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:23,920
And even the shootings happening are risking their lives to do to to to

971
01:43:23,920 --> 01:43:30,240
to tourniquet and to try to stanch the bleeding and all that. And then what is very

972
01:43:31,920 --> 01:43:39,280
the cumulation all that is that music concert where you have 3,000 people in there, three guys come

973
01:43:39,280 --> 01:43:46,640
in with machine guns and shoot indiscriminately at the crowd. And again, you see the civilians,

974
01:43:46,640 --> 01:43:53,040
the stories of them protecting themselves, protecting someone weaker than them, protecting

975
01:43:54,560 --> 01:44:00,480
complete strangers, either by escaping, either by playing dead and covering them with your body

976
01:44:00,480 --> 01:44:08,560
as as as people are dying all around you. The the the terrorists will then proceed to take 11 hostages

977
01:44:09,280 --> 01:44:17,840
and wait for the police, uh, um, locked themselves in a long but very narrow hallway

978
01:44:18,400 --> 01:44:24,640
with these 11, um, hostages and that host and that hostage negotiation will then take place.

979
01:44:24,640 --> 01:44:31,200
And when you talk about the humor, what we wanted to show is that humor is a very important part,

980
01:44:31,200 --> 01:44:37,840
I think, of healing. And but it's also a way that, you know, uh, uh, our brain kind of, uh,

981
01:44:37,840 --> 01:44:42,080
enables us to to protect ourselves. Humor sometimes comes out when you stress, you know,

982
01:44:42,080 --> 01:44:46,640
you laugh and all that. And these these moments where you can think that, you know, how can you

983
01:44:46,640 --> 01:44:51,600
even think about laughing when two terrorists are pointing AK-47s at your heads that they're

984
01:44:51,600 --> 01:44:56,000
playing with the detonator where you can see on their vest full of explosive and they're holding

985
01:44:56,000 --> 01:45:03,600
you your feet away from them. It's in these moments that the crazy, uh, surreal reality happens. And

986
01:45:03,600 --> 01:45:10,560
here it happens when the SWAT team, amazing people, whether it is in the U.S. or in France,

987
01:45:10,560 --> 01:45:15,680
but here in Paris, these SWAT team members who, you know, know it's going to be complicated. It's

988
01:45:15,680 --> 01:45:21,200
a narrow hallway. You have 11 hostages. You have two terrorists armed to the teeth, AK-47 explosives.

989
01:45:21,200 --> 01:45:25,120
You're going to have to breach at some point, which is, you know, it's going to be bad for you

990
01:45:25,120 --> 01:45:32,480
and for the hostages. And yet, as they try to negotiate to buy some time, the negotiator has

991
01:45:32,480 --> 01:45:40,800
the thickest Southern accent you can imagine. And so comes that surreal moment where he tries to give

992
01:45:40,800 --> 01:45:45,600
the number to call on the cell phone to negotiate and all that, except no one understands him. And

993
01:45:45,600 --> 01:45:50,960
the hostages have to repeat for about 15 times the number. And it becomes kind of a sketch

994
01:45:50,960 --> 01:45:56,000
that you think comes out of Saturday Night Live if it was not so terrible. All this is to say that

995
01:45:56,000 --> 01:46:00,320
you find these moments where you look at the documentary and laugh and almost feel ashamed.

996
01:46:00,320 --> 01:46:05,440
No, no, I should not laugh. The hostages themselves and the people there that will tell

997
01:46:05,440 --> 01:46:12,720
that crazy moment when you think life is going to, to, to, to be over in an instant,

998
01:46:12,720 --> 01:46:21,280
a moment of laughter, a smile, a twinkle in the eye, holding someone's hand or just a square inch

999
01:46:21,280 --> 01:46:27,120
of flesh in yours can mean the difference between life and death, mentally and physically. And so

1000
01:46:28,160 --> 01:46:37,600
what we wanted to see in the candidness of these incredible testimonies of, not only because they're

1001
01:46:37,600 --> 01:46:42,400
talking about their courage, but for some because they're talking about that, yes, the truth is

1002
01:46:42,400 --> 01:46:48,800
the terrorist pointed a machine gun at his head and said, go get my, my, my, my bag full of charges.

1003
01:46:49,360 --> 01:46:55,040
If not, I'll kill you and I'll kill your friend. And he says, but I go there and I pick up the bag

1004
01:46:55,040 --> 01:47:00,080
and I feel guilty because I'm giving them more ammo, but I don't want to die. And I think to

1005
01:47:00,080 --> 01:47:05,200
have the honesty to say that is incredibly courageous, but also very human. And I think

1006
01:47:05,200 --> 01:47:10,720
it's to be applauded. All of them that participated, the act of telling your story

1007
01:47:10,720 --> 01:47:19,040
is an act of courage because it is not easy. It is not fun for the most part. It was, it was

1008
01:47:19,840 --> 01:47:27,760
difficult. It was long. It was, it was heavy, but it, it helps you. It heals you to be able to tell

1009
01:47:27,760 --> 01:47:32,880
you story. And here these people in particular who, for the ones in the Bataclan, the one in the

1010
01:47:32,880 --> 01:47:38,080
council venue who had been taken hostage for two hours, that this moment of their lives had been

1011
01:47:38,080 --> 01:47:45,280
taken away from them. These two hours of their, of their life was, was taken hostage by the, the

1012
01:47:45,280 --> 01:47:50,320
terrorist to be able to tell their story minute by minute, what they saw, what they felt, what they

1013
01:47:50,320 --> 01:47:56,400
smelled was a way to reclaim what had been stolen from them. And so it was very important that it

1014
01:47:56,400 --> 01:48:00,000
was an act of courage, of resilience and healing on their part.

1015
01:48:01,360 --> 01:48:05,840
Yeah. You got anything to add before I kind of throw some things at you, Gidion?

1016
01:48:05,840 --> 01:48:11,760
Go ahead, go ahead. Okay. So, so I mean, like I said, anyone listening, this is an absolute must

1017
01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:16,880
listen as a human being, as a first responder. I mean, excuse me, as a much, what must watch. I

1018
01:48:16,880 --> 01:48:21,120
mean, it was such a, absolutely one of the most powerful things I've ever seen and being a

1019
01:48:21,120 --> 01:48:26,720
responder myself, you know, I can invest in that even, even further, but a few of the takeaways,

1020
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:30,080
and obviously you don't want to go over the whole entire thing, but a few things I think that were

1021
01:48:30,080 --> 01:48:35,680
very powerful to me. The first one was you mentioned the, the, the, the, the, the, the

1022
01:48:35,680 --> 01:48:39,440
the French prime minister was there. Is it prime minister or president?

1023
01:48:40,400 --> 01:48:43,920
You had the president and the interior, the minister of the interior. Okay.

1024
01:48:43,920 --> 01:48:45,760
President. The president of the stadium. Yeah.

1025
01:48:45,760 --> 01:48:50,160
Okay. We'll make sure I get the right title. So it's a, it's a Germany versus France game.

1026
01:48:50,160 --> 01:48:55,280
And so when the initial explosions go off, it's outside the stadium, even though it sounds like

1027
01:48:55,280 --> 01:48:59,520
one of the terrorists tried to make their way into the stadium. And what I was very impressed

1028
01:48:59,520 --> 01:49:06,240
with was the fact that he chose to tell them to keep playing, to, to try not to arouse suspicion

1029
01:49:06,240 --> 01:49:10,240
that first you're like, Oh, well, that's easier said than done. But then in the next breath,

1030
01:49:10,240 --> 01:49:15,120
they say that his own son is in the stadium. So I thought that was very powerful because he's not

1031
01:49:15,120 --> 01:49:20,480
making it now for strangers. He's including his own family member. And that decision undoubtedly

1032
01:49:20,480 --> 01:49:27,120
saves lives. But the amazing part is he has very little information. It's actually the fire

1033
01:49:27,120 --> 01:49:33,040
commander in the stadium that the president goes towards and said, what do you think? And the, and

1034
01:49:33,040 --> 01:49:37,920
the fire department official there says, we don't know what's happening. We have two choices. If we

1035
01:49:37,920 --> 01:49:45,360
don't, if we stop and panic people, we might have a frenzy. There's 70,000 people there. If we tell,

1036
01:49:45,360 --> 01:49:49,600
if we stop the game and say, okay, let's evacuate. We don't know what's outside.

1037
01:49:50,640 --> 01:49:56,000
And so he makes that very difficult decision to keep everyone inside, including his son. It is a

1038
01:49:56,000 --> 01:50:01,280
very personal one. And fortunately, it was the best because if, if they would have panic people,

1039
01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:05,120
they would have been a stampede and people would have died from that. If they would have let them

1040
01:50:05,120 --> 01:50:10,560
outside yet two more suicide bombers unbeknownst to them that were waiting that exploded themselves

1041
01:50:10,560 --> 01:50:17,760
a bit later on. So, but again, you know, making the right decision sometime it's, it's inches and

1042
01:50:17,760 --> 01:50:22,800
seconds is the, is the difference between life and death. And, and these decisions are hard to take,

1043
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:27,680
but fortunately they were the right ones. Absolutely. Well, another, another thing that,

1044
01:50:28,720 --> 01:50:33,440
that I thought was very powerful is as it unfolds. And, and, you know, again, you said about the

1045
01:50:33,440 --> 01:50:39,040
heroism, the way that the first responders, a lot of them obviously were the firefighters initially

1046
01:50:40,080 --> 01:50:45,920
segregated off, you know, sectioned off, they had the group leader and the, the person assisting

1047
01:50:45,920 --> 01:50:52,240
and they started triaging and they, you know, the innovation, like using the barriers as stretches,

1048
01:50:52,240 --> 01:50:57,680
you know, some of those things, but you saw people banding together, you saw these responders acting,

1049
01:50:57,680 --> 01:51:02,720
just like you said, there was no, what we call warm zone. They had no idea if that one of those

1050
01:51:02,720 --> 01:51:06,240
people in the crowd was another one with a gun or a bomb that was going to kill himself. So

1051
01:51:06,880 --> 01:51:12,880
initially knowing, like you said, there's chaos and ultimately what seemed to be a journey south to

1052
01:51:12,880 --> 01:51:20,320
the Bataclan, it was just the, the heroism of these men and women, like you said, sheltering people,

1053
01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:24,800
you know, the actual responders themselves. And I think a very powerful moment to me that's kind of

1054
01:51:24,800 --> 01:51:33,120
summed up from the responders lens was the doctor, medicine, I think it was, who had been on scene,

1055
01:51:33,120 --> 01:51:39,840
he was kind of orchestrating the response. He had a chest wound patient. He told him the heart hold

1056
01:51:39,840 --> 01:51:44,000
pressure, obviously got caught up with all the other triage that was going on. And then when he

1057
01:51:44,000 --> 01:51:49,760
came back, that person had passed away in that same seated position. And even though he was

1058
01:51:49,760 --> 01:51:55,680
trying to maintain his composure, you could see in his eyes, knowing responders, that that moment

1059
01:51:55,680 --> 01:52:02,240
is definitely stayed with him. And what's, if I may, what's incredible. So he's a fire department

1060
01:52:02,240 --> 01:52:09,680
doctor, which means he's military. He was deployed, he's done Afghanistan, he's done Mali. So he's

1061
01:52:09,680 --> 01:52:15,600
been on theaters of war, he's treated war wounds and all that. And here to see it, and you see it

1062
01:52:15,600 --> 01:52:21,360
in his eyes, in the cafe that he knows that he's been to that restaurant. And then he talks about

1063
01:52:21,360 --> 01:52:27,040
that. And just because he's doing triage, and there's 30 other people, and for 30 other people,

1064
01:52:27,040 --> 01:52:31,440
it's at least, you know, 20 seconds per person. And by the time he comes back that that person has

1065
01:52:31,440 --> 01:52:38,480
died, and to see almost a tear in his eye and holding that emotion, you see that humanity that

1066
01:52:38,480 --> 01:52:44,320
rises to the surface that all of them, even though they did an incredible job, can you imagine you

1067
01:52:44,320 --> 01:52:51,280
arrive at a terrace where you have 28 seats, 24 people are dead on that terrace or dying. And

1068
01:52:51,280 --> 01:52:59,440
you're at first two trucks, and everyone has to do everything. It is unbelievable the work they've

1069
01:52:59,440 --> 01:53:06,800
done, the people they managed to save, was an Aeocurlian effort coordinating with the civilians

1070
01:53:06,800 --> 01:53:11,600
themselves who were helping. But they all talk about one thing, they all talk about when they

1071
01:53:11,600 --> 01:53:16,880
would treat people, the people themselves, the victim would say, don't take care of me, take care

1072
01:53:16,880 --> 01:53:21,920
of the next person, they're much worse off, I'll be okay, take care of my neighbor, take care of

1073
01:53:21,920 --> 01:53:28,320
people that they don't know. And that was really what struck them is, again, that sense of protection

1074
01:53:28,320 --> 01:53:32,080
for the other, for caring for the other above themselves.

1075
01:53:33,280 --> 01:53:38,880
Yeah, I think another powerful moment for me, you had the one lady, and I meant to write the names

1076
01:53:38,880 --> 01:53:42,000
of all these people, but I forgot, but I guess it's probably a good thing I didn't because

1077
01:53:42,000 --> 01:53:46,240
people listening probably don't know which person it was anyway. But there was a couple in the

1078
01:53:46,240 --> 01:53:50,720
Bataclan, so now those three terrorists have come in, you've got 1500 people at this rock concert,

1079
01:53:50,720 --> 01:53:57,360
they are literally executing to the point where there are piles, mountains of bodies. And this

1080
01:53:57,360 --> 01:54:03,600
couple finds their way into, was it a bathroom where they got into the ceiling space? And this

1081
01:54:03,600 --> 01:54:10,880
one lady is heavier, she's obese, and she's trying to get in, and obviously as you're

1082
01:54:10,880 --> 01:54:14,560
recounting it, you can imagine, especially she's probably wearing heels or something as well,

1083
01:54:15,200 --> 01:54:18,720
and she's trying to climb up into this section that they found in the ceiling,

1084
01:54:19,520 --> 01:54:24,160
and she keeps falling. And she says, and you can almost see this, all these people waiting

1085
01:54:24,160 --> 01:54:30,000
to get up into this safe haven away from these murderers, and this one woman is big and she

1086
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:33,680
can't get up there, so immediately you think she's going to say, and then everyone pushed her out the

1087
01:54:33,680 --> 01:54:39,120
way and they went up themselves. But she said that the complete opposite, that the people were cheering

1088
01:54:39,120 --> 01:54:43,280
her on and helping her get up there, and she got up there. And I thought that was an incredible

1089
01:54:43,280 --> 01:54:48,240
moment of humanity because you would think the stampede selfishness effect would kick in, but it

1090
01:54:48,240 --> 01:54:53,840
was the polar opposite, and they basically helped her emotionally and physically get in that hole

1091
01:54:53,840 --> 01:55:00,400
before they got in themselves. Gédéon, I'm talking too much.

1092
01:55:03,040 --> 01:55:12,880
You're the one who took the best here. As you said, it's one of those moments where you expect

1093
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:24,560
the worst, but the best happens. This lady who's here with her husband, they've drove on the same

1094
01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:33,200
day, hours, in their small cars coming from the north of France to listen to one of their best

1095
01:55:33,200 --> 01:55:45,040
rock bands. And here they are finally, and the two kids are at home, the babysitter is taking care.

1096
01:55:45,040 --> 01:55:50,720
They finally have the evening for themselves, they go to Paris, and they know they're going to

1097
01:55:50,720 --> 01:56:00,320
have a great time. And the next thing they know, you have three terrorists shooting at everybody

1098
01:56:00,320 --> 01:56:13,360
around them, and the wound of an AK-47 is horrible. So they arrive along with maybe 20, 30

1099
01:56:14,880 --> 01:56:19,920
people in a tiny little room. They try to lock the door, but it doesn't really lock.

1100
01:56:20,800 --> 01:56:28,640
They are in this room where they don't know what to do. There are no windows, no escape route,

1101
01:56:28,640 --> 01:56:38,880
no door to the door. They're still here. The gun fires. And suddenly someone says there is a hole

1102
01:56:38,880 --> 01:56:49,600
through the toilet ceiling, which is a small area in the back. And so little by little, people are

1103
01:56:50,800 --> 01:56:55,120
getting up there. And to get up there, you have to put one foot on the toilet,

1104
01:56:55,120 --> 01:57:02,960
and then the second foot on maybe the area where you put the toilet paper. Anyway, it's not that

1105
01:57:02,960 --> 01:57:12,080
easy. But come the turn of this woman, and as you said, she's kind of, yeah, she's obese, and it's

1106
01:57:12,080 --> 01:57:19,440
very hard for her. The first time, her foot goes through the toilet. The second time, she falls on

1107
01:57:19,440 --> 01:57:28,880
her husband. And yet, at that time, they're looking at each other. She's feeling so guilty

1108
01:57:28,880 --> 01:57:37,920
that every second she's wasting, the terrorists are going to open the door and kill everybody,

1109
01:57:37,920 --> 01:57:44,720
and it will be her fault. But no, the people behind her who's making a line are cheering her

1110
01:57:44,720 --> 01:57:51,760
and saying, you can do it. And finally, she managed to do it with maybe, I think, a foot

1111
01:57:51,760 --> 01:57:59,200
on her husband's head, and her other foot, someone is helping her with their hands. And the next

1112
01:57:59,200 --> 01:58:08,480
thing they know, all those people are in this kind of strange place between the roof and the ceiling,

1113
01:58:08,480 --> 01:58:17,200
and they are safe. At least they think, and they hear the sound of the guns all over. And

1114
01:58:19,600 --> 01:58:27,840
they don't know that for the next two hours, they are finding refuge exactly on the ceiling above

1115
01:58:27,840 --> 01:58:42,080
where the venue is, where the stage is, and pretending to be dead among tents who are actually

1116
01:58:42,080 --> 01:58:54,400
dead. Everybody is lying down. And that's the scene of hell. That was the Bataclan.

1117
01:58:54,400 --> 01:59:00,880
Yeah, and it was such a powerful moment. I think the other one, there's one more thing I want to

1118
01:59:00,880 --> 01:59:04,880
talk about and then we'll go to Notre Dame, because I know we're almost at two hours now,

1119
01:59:06,160 --> 01:59:13,120
is the other thing I think was very haunting was one of the women had the realization

1120
01:59:13,760 --> 01:59:22,800
that three terrorists commanded the action of 1500 men and women. And there was that realization of

1121
01:59:22,800 --> 01:59:29,120
ultimately, what if we had rushed them? What if we had gone? Then some of us would have been killed,

1122
01:59:29,120 --> 01:59:35,040
but the rest would have been saved. But I think it was a very powerful lens into the fact that fear

1123
01:59:35,040 --> 01:59:39,280
can paralyze us. And obviously, I'm sure they seemed like there was more than three of them,

1124
01:59:39,280 --> 01:59:45,600
too, with all the horrendous executions that were going on. But I'm sure that's something that's

1125
01:59:45,600 --> 01:59:50,720
going to haunt her to the day. Again, you could see it in her face that so many people were killed.

1126
01:59:50,720 --> 01:59:58,880
130 I think that day in the end, wasn't it? In Paris altogether it was 190. 190? Oh, I got that wrong.

1127
01:59:58,880 --> 02:00:08,000
Okay. There's 130, 90 at the Bataclan, but it's 130, I apologize. Oh, no problem.

1128
02:00:08,000 --> 02:00:13,760
Okay, yeah. So, I mean, a huge amount. But again, easier said than done. Any one of us

1129
02:00:13,760 --> 02:00:18,560
probably would have been trying to find our void space in the ceiling somewhere to get away as well.

1130
02:00:18,560 --> 02:00:25,200
But that was a powerful moment that how, again, how a weapon can completely offset

1131
02:00:25,920 --> 02:00:31,680
the quote unquote fair fight and put innocent civilians and make them so vulnerable. I mean,

1132
02:00:31,680 --> 02:00:36,800
I just had people from the pulse attacks on a few weeks ago, same exact thing. So just to kind of

1133
02:00:36,800 --> 02:00:41,600
put it out, I thought that was a very powerful moment as well. Yeah, because I think that's where

1134
02:00:41,600 --> 02:00:48,320
you see really the, it talks to the helplessness of it. And when she says in her interview,

1135
02:00:48,320 --> 02:00:53,360
it's really I can't believe that three jackass because I think that's what she is, are, you know,

1136
02:00:53,360 --> 02:01:00,240
we're the we're 1500. And we're the mercy of three jackasses with guns. And it's yes, it's the power

1137
02:01:00,240 --> 02:01:05,600
of fear and terror because this is the point of terrorism is terrorizing people and making them

1138
02:01:06,800 --> 02:01:14,320
flee and making them full of fear and paralyzing them. But yet, as we see that we see the country

1139
02:01:14,320 --> 02:01:23,600
is, you know, I think this documentary is in a way, a perfect few to to to terrorism, because

1140
02:01:23,600 --> 02:01:29,440
I think the country happened you the moment where they wanted to terrorize us and paralyze us.

1141
02:01:29,440 --> 02:01:39,200
That's where you saw the most incredible moments of courage, of compassion, of love in the middle

1142
02:01:39,200 --> 02:01:46,000
of the horror and hate. And that's, I think, is really the the what what what really prevailed.

1143
02:01:46,000 --> 02:01:50,080
And that's what we should hang on to. I think we've always and you know, was talking about that at

1144
02:01:50,080 --> 02:01:55,280
the beginning, the way these people behave, I think is always is really for us kind of vaccine

1145
02:01:55,280 --> 02:02:04,160
against depression against that, you know, that thinking of everything, the world is such a

1146
02:02:04,160 --> 02:02:09,440
horrible place, because when you hear the the radio or the television, you know, it's not very. But

1147
02:02:09,440 --> 02:02:15,680
when you see that the moments like this, you know, people can be so beautiful, so amazing. I think

1148
02:02:15,680 --> 02:02:20,720
that's you need that you need that that kind of little shot in the arm that says, Okay, you know,

1149
02:02:20,720 --> 02:02:26,320
if they could do it, of course I can, or I need to try. Absolutely. Well, just one more element of

1150
02:02:26,320 --> 02:02:30,320
that. And then I want to once it to Notre Dame, can be mindful of your time. I think the other

1151
02:02:30,320 --> 02:02:36,480
very powerful thing and again, for the responders listening, I mean, I, I did my best to become the

1152
02:02:36,480 --> 02:02:41,760
best version of me was I perfect? No, was I the best firefighter paramedic? No. But I mean, I think

1153
02:02:41,760 --> 02:02:47,200
that's something we all push towards. But I think it's very important to highlight that when the

1154
02:02:47,200 --> 02:02:54,320
SWAT team actually made entry to terrorists with semi automatic weapons that had bomb vests around

1155
02:02:54,320 --> 02:03:01,920
them, it took them one minute and six seconds to neutralize the threat in a narrow hallway with

1156
02:03:01,920 --> 02:03:07,840
hostages. So I don't think there's any better illustration of you are the sum of all your

1157
02:03:07,840 --> 02:03:12,880
training up to that point, whether it's an organization with this individual, the that

1158
02:03:12,880 --> 02:03:18,160
could have ended with a failure, lots of dead hostages and police officers and maybe a further

1159
02:03:18,160 --> 02:03:22,880
rampage because they just killed all the cops that came and so they could go back in and do some more.

1160
02:03:22,880 --> 02:03:29,680
So what was your perspective on that? Well, I think the SWAT team commander, which is a fantastic

1161
02:03:29,680 --> 02:03:35,920
human being who had the words that, you know, at the kosher supermarket earlier in January,

1162
02:03:35,920 --> 02:03:41,520
who had been with his SWAT team there after the Charlie Hebdo attacks. And here he's faced with

1163
02:03:41,520 --> 02:03:46,960
an impossible situation, which he says actually to the to the chief of police who asked him,

1164
02:03:46,960 --> 02:03:53,200
are we going to be OK when you breach? And the commander of the SWAT says, you know, stupidly,

1165
02:03:53,200 --> 02:03:57,760
I told him the truth. I said, no, it's not going to be OK because we're a narrow hallway. We have

1166
02:03:57,760 --> 02:04:04,160
11 hostages. We have two guys with AK-47 and suicide vest. And I'm going to lose probably

1167
02:04:04,160 --> 02:04:10,400
half of my guys and half of the the hostages. But we have no other choice. We have to do it.

1168
02:04:10,400 --> 02:04:16,240
And we're willing to take this. And when the commander is about to breach, he actually does

1169
02:04:16,240 --> 02:04:21,040
something that he never does before. He checks in with his men and said, are you guys OK with it?

1170
02:04:22,160 --> 02:04:26,400
Is there superior? He doesn't have to ask them whether they feel OK about the mission or not.

1171
02:04:26,400 --> 02:04:30,640
But he wanted to make sure they realized what they were about to do. And all of them to a T

1172
02:04:30,640 --> 02:04:36,320
were saying, of course, let's go in. We know we know the risk. Let's do it. And to see that,

1173
02:04:37,120 --> 02:04:43,360
again, that time distortion when the hostages talk about that breach for them, it lasts half an hour.

1174
02:04:43,360 --> 02:04:52,960
But we found the tape of it. And it's a minute and six seconds where the guys are emptying clips

1175
02:04:52,960 --> 02:05:03,040
of AK-47 into a giant shield that protects the SWAT teams. And the result of that, after that

1176
02:05:03,040 --> 02:05:10,080
one minute and six seconds, the two terrorists will be dead. One by detonating is a suicide vest.

1177
02:05:10,080 --> 02:05:19,680
The other will be shot before he could do so. There's not a single cop who's there is one cop

1178
02:05:19,680 --> 02:05:26,640
who's hurt with a bullet to the end, but that's it. And none of the hostages are hit. So it is

1179
02:05:26,640 --> 02:05:33,200
almost like a miracle operation because technically half of them should have died. So the courage

1180
02:05:33,200 --> 02:05:41,600
and the you know, of these incredible SWAT members, which I'm close to some of them and I

1181
02:05:43,280 --> 02:05:47,840
really admire them the same way I admire the firefighters. They were incredible that night.

1182
02:05:47,840 --> 02:05:54,400
And it's people who are willing to put their lives on the line for all of us that, you know,

1183
02:05:55,360 --> 02:05:59,520
command our respect and for us to be grateful.

1184
02:05:59,520 --> 02:06:04,240
Beautiful. Well, Gédien, I know you've got to go soon. So before you do, I want to get you in one

1185
02:06:04,240 --> 02:06:09,040
more time. And I'm sorry that we've gone so far and you got to pick up your kid. Just quickly,

1186
02:06:09,040 --> 02:06:15,600
so tell me about Notre Dame. I was actually in Paris in 2016. So a year after the attacks,

1187
02:06:15,600 --> 02:06:21,280
but before the fire. So we've literally got pictures outside Notre Dame. So again,

1188
02:06:21,280 --> 02:06:27,680
as Parisianers, tell me about that event and what made you want to do another documentary on them?

1189
02:06:27,680 --> 02:06:40,560
Well, we like many people around the world, we watch on TV or on a computer screen.

1190
02:06:42,640 --> 02:06:50,640
This monument, you know, slightly, I mean, completely disappearing before our eyes. And

1191
02:06:50,640 --> 02:06:59,280
and it was not just any monument. It was it was Notre Dame de Paris. It was the cathedral of

1192
02:07:00,160 --> 02:07:06,400
Notre Dame. It was this place where everybody who has been lucky enough to travel to Paris

1193
02:07:07,040 --> 02:07:17,280
had seen it and maybe visited inside. It was this homage to what human being can do

1194
02:07:17,280 --> 02:07:27,200
to that is so beautiful that is whether you are a believer or not, it did not matter. It was

1195
02:07:27,200 --> 02:07:35,040
it was it was a beautiful piece of culture of architecture. It represented so much. It was built

1196
02:07:35,040 --> 02:07:46,960
over 800 years ago at a time where it was just insane to conceptualize how to build something so

1197
02:07:46,960 --> 02:07:57,680
monumental that would stand time. There was revolutions, there was kings and emperors and

1198
02:07:59,680 --> 02:08:12,320
government that tried to destroy it. Time alone was not, you know, nice to this beautiful place.

1199
02:08:12,320 --> 02:08:21,840
But but somehow it was all the it was all the the the the the the the crisis of time. And so

1200
02:08:21,840 --> 02:08:29,280
it's one of those monuments where you know, you're alive and wherever you are in the world,

1201
02:08:29,280 --> 02:08:35,840
you're thinking, OK, everything is going bad. You know, you switch on TV, you look at your

1202
02:08:35,840 --> 02:08:43,520
you listen to your podcast, your radio, the world is going mad. But at least you can be pretty sure

1203
02:08:43,520 --> 02:08:49,520
that some monuments in the world, some some things that are really standing and that will be standing

1204
02:08:49,520 --> 02:08:58,560
for the rest of time. And Notre Dame de Paris for everything that it represented was one of those

1205
02:08:58,560 --> 02:09:05,760
one of those monuments, you know, the pyramid of Egypt, anything you can think of that just

1206
02:09:06,640 --> 02:09:14,240
you the seven beauties of the world. But but here it was it was being destroyed in front of you.

1207
02:09:14,240 --> 02:09:23,440
I mean, this thing that that was making your life more grounded suddenly was disappearing in smoke.

1208
02:09:23,440 --> 02:09:30,080
And and and so Jules and I, yeah, we lived it live like most people and

1209
02:09:30,960 --> 02:09:38,880
were so relieved when we discovered that the fire department of Paris had managed to to save the

1210
02:09:38,880 --> 02:09:47,680
Notre Dame. And and of course, we thought, you know, there got to be more to it than just guys

1211
02:09:47,680 --> 02:09:56,560
and girls coming in and and putting water on on it. And and that's when we discovered, again,

1212
02:09:56,560 --> 02:10:10,560
thanks to Chief Pfeiffer, that and Jules relations with the French fire department, that the rescue

1213
02:10:10,560 --> 02:10:20,320
of Notre Dame was nothing but easy, that Notre Dame should have been destroyed 10 times that evening.

1214
02:10:20,320 --> 02:10:30,880
And if it was not for the absolute abnegation and sacrifice of the firefighters, stories that were

1215
02:10:30,880 --> 02:10:40,880
not told, stories that people of Paris and France didn't know about. Yeah, we it would be Paris

1216
02:10:40,880 --> 02:10:47,440
without Notre Dame, which is something insane to think about, like Egypt without the the the

1217
02:10:47,440 --> 02:10:59,360
the pyramids. And and so so so we we we started to to talk to the firefighters and discovered that

1218
02:10:59,360 --> 02:11:07,760
that what they had gone through, what they what they fought was was just insane. And and Jules,

1219
02:11:07,760 --> 02:11:14,240
please, please go. I'm so sorry, I have to run. No, please. Thank you so much. You've been so

1220
02:11:14,240 --> 02:11:21,920
generous with your time. It was a great honor to to to to be on your show. Your show is amazing.

1221
02:11:21,920 --> 02:11:31,360
Thank you so much. Jules, forgive me. I have to present the kids. I'll handle your answers.

1222
02:11:32,320 --> 02:11:37,120
I'll have to do a thicker French accent, but I think we'll just pretend to be both that.

1223
02:11:37,920 --> 02:11:47,840
Okay. But so no, but it was really that. You know, we the relationship we had already created with

1224
02:11:47,840 --> 02:11:54,160
the the the head of the of the fire department, which I changed. It was not the same from November

1225
02:11:54,160 --> 02:12:01,120
13. But it was his deputy, which I got to know a lot of Paris firefighters and SWAT teams from Paris

1226
02:12:02,160 --> 02:12:08,960
did a lot of trips coming to New York and that I would I would greet them when they would arrive

1227
02:12:08,960 --> 02:12:12,640
with Chief Pfeiffer and there were lots of exchange that we've done over the years. And so

1228
02:12:12,640 --> 02:12:18,800
we have a great relationship with these with these people. And I called the chief of the

1229
02:12:19,360 --> 02:12:25,680
fire department in Paris a couple of a couple of weeks after and to tell him, but you know,

1230
02:12:25,680 --> 02:12:30,080
we were all so proud, we were all watching and in awe of what you guys did. And he said, you know,

1231
02:12:30,080 --> 02:12:34,000
they have so many incredible stories. You know, I think you should maybe do a documentary about it.

1232
02:12:34,000 --> 02:12:43,040
So went to Paris to meet with them and discovered once again, you know, this the the this

1233
02:12:43,040 --> 02:12:48,320
incredible courage not only of the firefighters, but of the civilians that came to help the people

1234
02:12:48,320 --> 02:12:54,080
work in the church who came to work, the people were working on the on the scaffolding that came

1235
02:12:54,080 --> 02:12:59,920
to to help also. And it's that also that comedy of error, that humor that we were talking about

1236
02:12:59,920 --> 02:13:05,200
on November 13, that is almost there. That kind of another kind of you have the impression is

1237
02:13:05,200 --> 02:13:11,600
cyanide life sketch of when they go to try to to retrieve the crown of thorn, because the crown of

1238
02:13:11,600 --> 02:13:19,040
thorn is supposed to be in in in a safe in at Notre Dame, except that, you know, so they you

1239
02:13:19,040 --> 02:13:25,360
have to imagine this building, the entire roof is on fire, and firefighters are on teams working on

1240
02:13:25,360 --> 02:13:31,200
all the facade up down on the right on the left in the north in the south. And one team in particular

1241
02:13:31,200 --> 02:13:39,120
is in is in charge of saving the artwork and and all of the relics, because there is actually a

1242
02:13:39,120 --> 02:13:45,040
department in a special department in the fire department that takes care of firefighters in

1243
02:13:45,040 --> 02:13:51,280
charge of saving works of arts who operate in museums and all that because it is something that

1244
02:13:51,280 --> 02:13:56,960
you have to think about, you know, don't go put water on Leonardo da Vinci or something like that

1245
02:13:56,960 --> 02:14:02,160
on a painting. So but it's and so, you know, here are these firefighters who at first, you know,

1246
02:14:02,160 --> 02:14:07,120
were so excited, great, I'm going to go fight the fire on the realm, because it's firefighters and

1247
02:14:07,120 --> 02:14:12,160
firefighters, you have that amazing duality where you don't want bad things to happen. But if there

1248
02:14:12,160 --> 02:14:18,160
is a big fire, you want to be the one who is the first to and we'll we'll get to it. It's and so

1249
02:14:18,160 --> 02:14:22,560
he arrives out great, we're going to be able to go up there, go close to the fire, I'll be with the

1250
02:14:22,560 --> 02:14:26,960
nozzle will be amazing and all that. And the chief said, Well, I'm sorry, but you need to go and find

1251
02:14:26,960 --> 02:14:31,840
the crown of thorn and all that. Okay, I'm not very religious. But okay, let's go find it. And

1252
02:14:31,840 --> 02:14:35,680
and comes that committee of error where they have to look for a safe, they look everywhere. As he

1253
02:14:35,680 --> 02:14:39,600
says, he looks behind paintings, he looks on the floors, he moves everything while the roof is on

1254
02:14:39,600 --> 02:14:47,040
fire, and lead is is melting and is falling like a cascade of lava in the middle. And so they have to

1255
02:14:47,040 --> 02:14:53,200
be careful that it doesn't fall on them. They finally found the safe, break the safe, come out

1256
02:14:53,200 --> 02:14:57,760
triumphant triumphantly with the the crown of thorn. And as he says, you know, I'm carrying really

1257
02:14:57,760 --> 02:15:02,400
at the top like this, because I want to break it, I don't want to break the the thorns because you

1258
02:15:02,400 --> 02:15:06,720
know, the crown of thorns without thorns, I will can I'll get into trouble. So he comes in out and

1259
02:15:06,720 --> 02:15:13,680
here comes the curator of the of Notre Dame said, and here we see this amazing firefighter so proud

1260
02:15:13,680 --> 02:15:18,000
to come in and unfortunately, we have to tell him it's not the right one. That's the display one.

1261
02:15:18,000 --> 02:15:23,120
And they go back into another treasure hunt to try to find it where they are. So it's it's what we

1262
02:15:23,120 --> 02:15:30,240
wanted to show like in most of our program. Reality is messy, is beautiful, is funny, is dramatic.

1263
02:15:30,960 --> 02:15:35,920
But that's the beauty of human nature, you can you can overcome everything with with humor and

1264
02:15:35,920 --> 02:15:41,360
with love. And so here, to see these incredible firefighters who, what we didn't realize at the

1265
02:15:41,360 --> 02:15:48,240
time, you know, are a few of them are decide to go up and are sent in a suicide mission in a way.

1266
02:15:49,040 --> 02:15:54,720
There is no one in the in no civilians anymore in Notre Dame, the the church has been the

1267
02:15:54,720 --> 02:16:02,320
cathedral has been evacuated. But the two towers which holds the bells, the bells are weights about

1268
02:16:02,320 --> 02:16:08,720
eight to 10 tons each, and there's about 10 of them. And they realize that inside of these towers,

1269
02:16:08,720 --> 02:16:14,800
the frame that holds the bell is all made out of wood. And it's starting to to to to catch fire,

1270
02:16:14,800 --> 02:16:20,080
which means that at some point, the beams are going to collapse, the bells are going to go come

1271
02:16:20,080 --> 02:16:24,880
crashing down, and you'll have a domino effect and the entire cathedral is going to implode into

1272
02:16:24,880 --> 02:16:32,400
itself. And here is the head of the fire department, who is faced with two choices. One, he does

1273
02:16:32,400 --> 02:16:39,040
nothing pulls everybody out, let the building collapse, the world will lose one of these new

1274
02:16:39,040 --> 02:16:45,280
most beautiful icons of architecture and faith and and and art. But you know, no one will take

1275
02:16:45,280 --> 02:16:52,320
place or you send a commando that knowing that you have about half an hour before the collapse,

1276
02:16:52,320 --> 02:17:00,720
who have to try to put water on the beams that are holding the the bells and save the entire

1277
02:17:00,720 --> 02:17:08,160
Elvis at the cost of their lives. And and the the the chief of the fire department goes and talks

1278
02:17:08,160 --> 02:17:13,680
to the French president, explain to him the the the the choices. And the president said,

1279
02:17:14,240 --> 02:17:20,800
go for it. And you have a commando of about 10 firefighters who go up and will fight their way

1280
02:17:20,800 --> 02:17:27,280
inside of the tower fight their way up the the stairs and will will actually extinguish the fire

1281
02:17:27,280 --> 02:17:31,600
probably five minutes service five minutes to spare. But within these five minutes, it could

1282
02:17:31,600 --> 02:17:37,440
have been the end of all these firefighters and and that amazing monuments. So you have all of

1283
02:17:37,440 --> 02:17:44,960
these incredible and what I love is these firefighters like all firefighters took it in

1284
02:17:44,960 --> 02:17:51,520
such beautiful terms that it's not fancy, it's not you know, they don't have degrees in in in

1285
02:17:51,520 --> 02:17:57,680
in artistic writing and all that. But it comes from the heart and it's quite profound and it's

1286
02:17:57,680 --> 02:18:04,000
quite moving. When they talk about their their their their their love for their fellow firefighters

1287
02:18:04,000 --> 02:18:08,960
for the love for their job, the love for Paris, the love for for for for what they are going to

1288
02:18:08,960 --> 02:18:15,360
do. And it's it's simple and it's it's touching. And once again, inspires us because that's what

1289
02:18:15,360 --> 02:18:20,080
what we always want once we were groupies of firefighters. So we want to every time we can

1290
02:18:20,080 --> 02:18:25,920
praise them, we'll do it. But these are, you know, these amazing heroes and reminds us at a moment

1291
02:18:25,920 --> 02:18:33,120
where we think everything can be over. Well, not not always. You still have that glimmer, that

1292
02:18:33,120 --> 02:18:40,400
spark of hope is in all of us. And that's what we have to remind people, especially this this year,

1293
02:18:40,400 --> 02:18:45,120
or at least this year, I should say. Yeah, well, I mean, absolutely. And I think that's what I saw

1294
02:18:45,120 --> 02:18:50,400
as again, as a fireman, so understanding the logistics, the actual dangers of what they did

1295
02:18:50,400 --> 02:18:54,800
and even just the fact they even had water so far up, you know, going to go through all these like

1296
02:18:54,800 --> 02:18:58,720
ancient stairwells. I'm amazed they even managed to get a water supply in the first place. But

1297
02:18:59,280 --> 02:19:06,880
to to have to be standing under wooden structures that are holding bells of that size, they knew if

1298
02:19:06,880 --> 02:19:11,760
if if one of those broke, that was it, they were all going to get, you know, taken down with the

1299
02:19:11,760 --> 02:19:16,720
bell and obviously killed immediately. But but again, and you you know, that firsthand,

1300
02:19:17,360 --> 02:19:20,480
when you're a firefighter, you don't think about that you think about it, it's in the back of your

1301
02:19:20,480 --> 02:19:23,760
head, because that's what makes you a good firefighter, you're not oblivious to the danger,

1302
02:19:23,760 --> 02:19:28,480
you are aware of the danger and you take into consideration. But you know why you're here.

1303
02:19:28,480 --> 02:19:33,920
And at the same time, you know, it's the best feeling in the world is you go into a firehouse

1304
02:19:33,920 --> 02:19:41,680
of after a good job, the smiles all around and it's smells like fireplace on their bunk against

1305
02:19:41,680 --> 02:19:46,320
gear and everyone is happy because they've done a good job or they save people. That's that's the

1306
02:19:46,320 --> 02:19:51,600
best reward is helping out someone at the end of the day. Absolutely. Well, a couple things I want

1307
02:19:51,600 --> 02:19:58,320
to touch on that one. So firstly, just like Tony, you had a rookie, but this time it was a female

1308
02:19:58,320 --> 02:20:05,120
firefighter who had not seen fire until this point. For two weeks, she's on you have to think

1309
02:20:05,120 --> 02:20:12,080
a woman firefighter, young, fantastic, lots of courage, lots of heart. She's been on the job

1310
02:20:12,080 --> 02:20:17,040
for I think, two weeks or two months. I don't remember. And her first job is actually a

1311
02:20:17,040 --> 02:20:22,320
Notre Dame. She's first due, which means she's the first truck to arrive. They go up all the way to

1312
02:20:22,320 --> 02:20:28,800
the inside of the roof. And there is a little door that comes into the roof. It's full of smoke.

1313
02:20:28,800 --> 02:20:35,600
The fire has started probably half an hour ago. They go in, doesn't see anything. She goes with her

1314
02:20:35,600 --> 02:20:41,200
officer. They're attached to a rope and they go up. They don't see anything and it's getting

1315
02:20:41,200 --> 02:20:45,280
warmer and warmer and warmer. And she doesn't she's never been to a fire. So she says, OK,

1316
02:20:45,280 --> 02:20:50,080
it's getting hot, but I don't want to say anything because, you know, I don't know if I'm supposed

1317
02:20:50,080 --> 02:20:55,360
to say anything. And, you know, I don't want to do a good job. And at some point, her officer

1318
02:20:55,360 --> 02:21:00,320
turns around and says, let's go out. It's too hot. And indeed, when they come out, they start to see

1319
02:21:00,320 --> 02:21:06,880
that they're all on their bunker gear is almost like shining in a metallic way. It's because the

1320
02:21:07,600 --> 02:21:15,600
lead that the outside of the roof is all lead sheets was melting and was melting on them in pools

1321
02:21:15,600 --> 02:21:23,120
of molten lava in a way. And we're starting to burn them. And their helmets started to melt.

1322
02:21:23,120 --> 02:21:29,520
It was so hot. And here she is. That's her first fire. And she incredibly bravely goes in the

1323
02:21:29,520 --> 02:21:35,280
middle of the fire itself and then would fight all night on this. You know, you always have

1324
02:21:37,280 --> 02:21:42,160
you know, these these little things of having another rookie there. I think for November 13,

1325
02:21:42,160 --> 02:21:47,440
it ended up that there was a cameraman in one of the fire trucks and that was first due to one of

1326
02:21:47,440 --> 02:21:52,880
the cafes. So you always have a little life is very strange and repeats itself. Yeah. Well,

1327
02:21:52,880 --> 02:21:57,680
with the molten lead, I think one of the most powerful images was the gargoyle with the lead

1328
02:21:58,400 --> 02:22:05,600
spilling out of his mouth. Where normally it would be water. And here you have this molten lead being

1329
02:22:06,320 --> 02:22:15,760
spitted out of the statues like this. It's quite an incredible sight. Very eerie. They all describe

1330
02:22:15,760 --> 02:22:21,680
it as that eeriness, especially because, you know, it's whether you've seen Notre Dame in

1331
02:22:21,680 --> 02:22:28,320
in the Hunchback of Notre Dame on Disney with the Hunchback, you know, or you've seen the different

1332
02:22:28,320 --> 02:22:34,720
movies. It's it represents it's more than just a church. It evokes something, whether you're French,

1333
02:22:34,720 --> 02:22:40,320
you're American, you're wherever. It was more than a building. It is more than a building. Each stone

1334
02:22:40,320 --> 02:22:45,840
has a little bit of part of our common humanity in all of us because it belongs to the world,

1335
02:22:45,840 --> 02:22:51,200
these kind of places. Yeah. I'm assuming that the bells rang following Bastille. I mean,

1336
02:22:51,200 --> 02:22:57,040
some very powerful moments in French history. But yes, they did. And they were the the the the

1337
02:22:57,040 --> 02:23:04,880
war after the each each war war. And it was an amazing moment. The one we discovered, you know,

1338
02:23:04,880 --> 02:23:11,120
that part of Paris, it's on Ile de la Cité, which is one of the two islands right smack in the middle

1339
02:23:11,120 --> 02:23:19,040
of Paris itself on the Seine River that traversed the the the town. And that little island is a

1340
02:23:19,040 --> 02:23:23,360
little bit like it's a small village into itself. You know, they're there. They're they're they have

1341
02:23:23,360 --> 02:23:27,920
their own kind of little culture. They kind of look at outsiders strangely and all that. And

1342
02:23:29,040 --> 02:23:36,000
and here they would talk about, you know, Notre Dame is almost the breathing beating heart of that

1343
02:23:36,000 --> 02:23:42,560
of that little village. They hear it's it's it sounds when the bells ring when the all that.

1344
02:23:42,560 --> 02:23:50,240
And suddenly after the fire, the that beautiful monument had gone silent and gone mute. And they

1345
02:23:50,240 --> 02:23:56,800
would describe it almost like a patient that had gone into a coma. And we're waiting for it to to

1346
02:23:58,080 --> 02:24:05,840
to speak and wake up and breathe again. And a few months after the fire, the former French president

1347
02:24:05,840 --> 02:24:10,080
died, Jacques Chirac, and it's customary to normally ring the bells except the bells. There's

1348
02:24:10,080 --> 02:24:16,160
no more electricity. There's no more that except that the the people at Notre Dame decides to go

1349
02:24:16,160 --> 02:24:23,600
up and ring the bell by hand by attaching a rope to the to the knocker. And all of us because they

1350
02:24:23,600 --> 02:24:29,920
invited me to come with them were rolling for 45 minutes, ring the bells of Notre Dame, the biggest

1351
02:24:29,920 --> 02:24:35,840
one, which is 13 ton by hand, which was a surreal experience. And when we came back down, people

1352
02:24:35,840 --> 02:24:42,880
stopped the the the people that went up and said, you finally gave us back our our beating heart.

1353
02:24:42,880 --> 02:24:49,760
To hear her it was like that comatose patient that woke up and said, I'm still alive. I'm still here.

1354
02:24:49,760 --> 02:24:55,040
So it really represents you have so many things that that that that place represents for people

1355
02:24:55,040 --> 02:25:00,000
of Paris, for people of the world, for people of France. Beautiful. Well, I think that's a perfect

1356
02:25:00,000 --> 02:25:04,960
place to kind of end the conversation there. I just have some few closing questions I love to ask

1357
02:25:04,960 --> 02:25:11,360
people. I'd love to get your your mind as well. The first one is, is there a book that you love

1358
02:25:11,360 --> 02:25:15,360
to recommend to people that can be related to what we've discussed today or something completely

1359
02:25:15,360 --> 02:25:23,280
different? OK, I'll have to find it again. I remember one of the things and I think that

1360
02:25:23,280 --> 02:25:29,120
corresponds to that. There was an amazing book that I had read extracts when I was in high school

1361
02:25:29,120 --> 02:25:35,840
in France growing up that they they made you read. And it was I think it was the letters

1362
02:25:37,680 --> 02:25:47,360
that were sent by the people that were put to before it takes place during the Second World

1363
02:25:47,360 --> 02:25:52,960
War in France. And it was the resistance fighters and their last letters before they were executed

1364
02:25:52,960 --> 02:25:59,200
by the Germans. And in these you found this incredibly touching letter. And I remember reading

1365
02:25:59,200 --> 02:26:06,160
one in particular of a young 16 year old boy who was about to be executed for being part of the

1366
02:26:06,160 --> 02:26:11,120
resistance. And he was executed by the Nazis writing a last letter to his mother, asking her

1367
02:26:11,120 --> 02:26:18,400
not to cry because of what he had done. He had lived and he had done it in a way to save people,

1368
02:26:18,400 --> 02:26:26,000
to save life and to preserve freedom. And in these moments of selflessness, I've always been

1369
02:26:26,000 --> 02:26:31,440
touched by that. That these people like firefighters, like police officers, like first responders

1370
02:26:31,440 --> 02:26:37,200
who are willing to put their lives on the line for the rest of us. And I always find that. And

1371
02:26:37,200 --> 02:26:40,720
that book that always struck me. I'll have to find it again and give it to you. But

1372
02:26:41,440 --> 02:26:46,720
you put me on the spot. Sorry. Beautiful. Thank you. That's a great, great answer.

1373
02:26:46,720 --> 02:26:51,840
What about movies? Is there a movie? Not a documentary, but a regular, like, you know,

1374
02:26:51,840 --> 02:26:58,000
fictional film that you like? But a lot. That's a problem. I watch, you know, a whole lot of

1375
02:26:58,000 --> 02:27:04,640
television and film and series and all that. So I'll go in first and see and documentaries. And

1376
02:27:04,640 --> 02:27:10,240
again, it's maybe on the same subject, but you have an incredible documentary on World War Two

1377
02:27:10,240 --> 02:27:16,080
in France and the resistance called The Sorrow and the Pity by Max Ophuls. It's just about four hours

1378
02:27:16,080 --> 02:27:22,800
long. It's it was filmed, I think, 15 years after the war. And it's a fascinating look into

1379
02:27:24,160 --> 02:27:30,080
normal human beings who suddenly find themselves, you know, their world put upside down. And that's

1380
02:27:30,080 --> 02:27:34,480
the occupation at that time and having to fight even though they're not, you know, they're not

1381
02:27:34,480 --> 02:27:39,440
trained and not all that and how, you know, you face evil. So it always kind of relates to the

1382
02:27:39,440 --> 02:27:46,000
things in terms of movies. Oh, there's too many of them. It's it's hard to think in the movie

1383
02:27:46,000 --> 02:27:50,960
I'll have to think by genre and all that. But that's too hard. There's too many of them.

1384
02:27:50,960 --> 02:27:54,640
Beautiful. That was a great I've never heard of The Sorrow and the Pity before, but it's funny,

1385
02:27:54,640 --> 02:28:01,520
I meant to say as well when we started the very first explosion in on November 13th was in a

1386
02:28:01,520 --> 02:28:08,000
stadium where France and Germany were playing a friendly match. And again, that goes to show that

1387
02:28:08,000 --> 02:28:14,800
people, you know, innately are good. And sometimes some bad people get put in positions of power or

1388
02:28:14,800 --> 02:28:18,800
you know, whether it's power governmentally, whether it's power because of a weapon they hold.

1389
02:28:18,800 --> 02:28:23,760
But ultimately, we're just men and women who want to feed our children, put a roof over our heads,

1390
02:28:23,760 --> 02:28:30,080
you know, and watch them grow up. And that's what you see in every conflict, you never, you know,

1391
02:28:30,080 --> 02:28:36,720
people of all sorts, you know, the are stepping up against tyranny, no matter their their where

1392
02:28:36,720 --> 02:28:41,840
they're from, no matter their what country they're part of, their their religion and all that,

1393
02:28:41,840 --> 02:28:47,120
that spark of hope and humanity is in all of us and we see it time and time and time and time again.

1394
02:28:47,120 --> 02:28:51,680
Absolutely. All right. Well, the next question, is there a person you recommend to come on this

1395
02:28:51,680 --> 02:28:55,920
podcast as a guest to talk to the first responders, military and associates?

1396
02:28:55,920 --> 02:28:56,560
Piper.

1397
02:28:56,560 --> 02:28:57,120
Yes.

1398
02:28:57,120 --> 02:29:06,000
Piper. And yes, I'll talk to him. I'll see if he's interested and I'll ask him to reach out to you if

1399
02:29:06,000 --> 02:29:06,480
he is.

1400
02:29:06,480 --> 02:29:11,760
Beautiful. Thank you. And actually on that same token, because, you know, like, for example,

1401
02:29:11,760 --> 02:29:17,200
you mentioned the helmet's one of the things that drives me crazy is people looking down their nose

1402
02:29:17,200 --> 02:29:21,360
at firefighters from other countries because they don't wear what I call the leather sombrero that

1403
02:29:21,360 --> 02:29:26,320
we have here, you know, that the antiquated helmet and people in the fire service love it and they

1404
02:29:26,320 --> 02:29:30,960
hate pistol grips. But the reality is the men and women of the fire service around the world

1405
02:29:30,960 --> 02:29:36,720
do the same job. You know, so that's the kind of message that I want. But I would love to get a

1406
02:29:36,720 --> 02:29:42,400
member of Sapo Pompier, the Paris French firefighter, but obviously they have to speak

1407
02:29:42,400 --> 02:29:46,240
English. If there was one that had been at both events or one or the other.

1408
02:29:46,240 --> 02:29:53,840
I can talk to you. Let me see what I can do. Let me think of a couple of heads. I can think of a

1409
02:29:53,840 --> 02:30:00,000
couple of them. One would be great is the one who is chief of the fire department on November 13,

1410
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:04,640
but he's a very, very, very busy man still. So I don't know. But if not, I can try to think of

1411
02:30:04,640 --> 02:30:10,880
firefighters that were at both either Charlie Hebdo on November 13 and Notre Dame. I have a couple

1412
02:30:10,880 --> 02:30:13,920
of friends. I'll reach out to them. I'll see which one has the better English.

1413
02:30:13,920 --> 02:30:18,000
Beautiful. Thank you so much. All right. So then the very last question before I let you go,

1414
02:30:18,000 --> 02:30:21,200
before we make sure everyone knows, you know, how to find the films you've done,

1415
02:30:21,200 --> 02:30:24,880
if there's anything that you do want to say as far as future projects that won't be bad luck.

1416
02:30:26,080 --> 02:30:27,520
What do you do to decompress?

1417
02:30:27,520 --> 02:30:35,200
Being very French, I cook to decompress. It's, you know, basic simple pleasures in life. I will

1418
02:30:35,200 --> 02:30:41,520
cook. I will garden. I will have amazing meals with my friends and drink a nice bottle of wine.

1419
02:30:41,520 --> 02:30:47,520
And that was my family. And right now it's around the fireplace and just normal things.

1420
02:30:47,520 --> 02:30:53,040
The really normal things just, you know, enjoy the people who are around me. That's, that's,

1421
02:30:53,040 --> 02:30:59,920
you know, what I take from all that. Every single, you know, happy moments is to be treasured.

1422
02:30:59,920 --> 02:31:04,080
Like it's the last one and it doesn't have to be a big thing. It could be, you know, this amazing

1423
02:31:04,080 --> 02:31:08,640
moment where you have a dinner party. Well, nowadays this past year wouldn't have a few,

1424
02:31:09,360 --> 02:31:13,280
but you know, where everyone is having a great time and laughter is echoing through the,

1425
02:31:13,280 --> 02:31:18,560
through the, the apartment and, you know, that's all it takes. That's the happiness for me.

1426
02:31:18,560 --> 02:31:22,480
Beautiful. Yeah. And I think that's, that's something that's been the negative this last year,

1427
02:31:22,480 --> 02:31:26,800
even though this last year is what you make of it. And in comparison to, you know, some of the,

1428
02:31:27,360 --> 02:31:32,080
the events we've discussed, it was a very good year for most people, but yeah, that, that tribal

1429
02:31:32,080 --> 02:31:37,840
element, that, that community I think is so important. We need, we need our social contact.

1430
02:31:37,840 --> 02:31:42,720
It defines who we are as a species. So absolutely. It's taken away. It gets,

1431
02:31:42,720 --> 02:31:48,560
but it will be good again. We've lived through, through, through on this earth through much,

1432
02:31:48,560 --> 02:31:53,280
much worse. It will pass. It will be horrible. And we have to remember the loss and the people

1433
02:31:53,280 --> 02:31:58,720
who've, we've lost along the way and celebrate their life and their courage, but this too shall

1434
02:31:58,720 --> 02:32:04,960
pass. Yes. Yeah. And I think just like what we've discussed as well, we've been taught some lessons.

1435
02:32:04,960 --> 02:32:08,880
We've been taught some lessons on our country's wellness. We've been taught some lessons on the

1436
02:32:08,880 --> 02:32:14,400
environment. So I hope we will take those lessons with us and improve in the future.

1437
02:32:15,040 --> 02:32:19,040
But we all have to, I think it's Chief Pfeiffer, who always talk when he talks about the trauma

1438
02:32:19,040 --> 02:32:23,280
we've all lived. He said the most, you know, when you live a trauma like that, you have two choices.

1439
02:32:23,280 --> 02:32:28,560
One, you don't learn anything from it. You don't gain anything from it. And all this is for nothing.

1440
02:32:28,560 --> 02:32:36,480
Or two is you, you try to find something positive in all of this. You want to be able to learn

1441
02:32:36,480 --> 02:32:43,840
something positive in all of this. You remember it always, but you don't let it define you. You take

1442
02:32:43,840 --> 02:32:50,240
it inside of you. You let it transform or add something positive to your life. And then you

1443
02:32:50,240 --> 02:32:55,200
move on while never forgetting, but do not be defined by that. And so that's the things we have

1444
02:32:55,200 --> 02:33:00,640
to do. And same thing by this is that's, that does not define us. Let's we've learned all have lessons

1445
02:33:00,640 --> 02:33:04,480
from this. Let's take positive ones and move on and remember this moment.

1446
02:33:04,480 --> 02:33:09,600
Beautiful. Well, one, I did put some, some posts out asking if people had questions and I think

1447
02:33:09,600 --> 02:33:13,680
there was a couple. One, do you still stay connected with the department? Obviously you've

1448
02:33:13,680 --> 02:33:17,840
told us that you're good friends with Chief Pfeiffer. Still good. Firehouse every now and

1449
02:33:17,840 --> 02:33:23,120
then, which is always amazing, even though there was very few, I think from the 55 that worked

1450
02:33:23,120 --> 02:33:28,080
there, there's probably three from that day. So, you know, every now and then I arrive and there's

1451
02:33:28,080 --> 02:33:32,880
a rookie opened the door and said, yes, sir, how can I help you? I said, yeah, go, go wish the rig

1452
02:33:32,880 --> 02:33:39,040
and go make me a coffee and then I'll go and see the guys. But, you know, it's fun. It has a magical

1453
02:33:39,040 --> 02:33:43,920
feeling for me. Beautiful. And then the other one is people ask about a follow-up, but obviously

1454
02:33:43,920 --> 02:33:51,600
we're about to hit 20 years without jinxing you and getting to, to, no, no, no. Well, we've always,

1455
02:33:51,600 --> 02:33:56,560
every five years, we've always did kind of, we called an update towards the end. We always do a

1456
02:33:56,560 --> 02:34:03,360
half an hour of, after the documentary on, you know, what have these people become, what has

1457
02:34:03,360 --> 02:34:09,760
happened or highlighting certain things happening, whether it was the, the, the psychological trauma,

1458
02:34:09,760 --> 02:34:13,840
we did that for the fifth year anniversary for the 10 year, it was more, unfortunately, the people

1459
02:34:13,840 --> 02:34:21,200
starting to die and we had lost two close friends, firefighters from the firehouse due to that. So,

1460
02:34:21,200 --> 02:34:26,480
for the 20th, we're, we're in talks right now too, but we'll most probably do an update for that

1461
02:34:26,480 --> 02:34:31,520
point. But it's, it's still a little bit early right now, but we're considering it, of course.

1462
02:34:31,520 --> 02:34:36,240
Beautiful. Well, Jules, I just want to say thank you so much. I mean, this random English bloke

1463
02:34:36,240 --> 02:34:39,760
reached out, you know, and I want to actually before, I want to say thank you as well, the Kate

1464
02:34:39,760 --> 02:34:44,640
Casey, because I had been looking for you guys for a long time. As I mentioned before, I totally

1465
02:34:44,640 --> 02:34:50,160
understand the nature of, of what you do and just your personalities that you don't want to be

1466
02:34:50,160 --> 02:34:55,680
out there. But when Kate had managed to do that incredible conversation with you on her podcast,

1467
02:34:56,400 --> 02:35:01,360
in response to mine, someone tagged us, she immediately messaged me and sent me your email.

1468
02:35:01,360 --> 02:35:06,000
So we're having this conversation because of her, but, but yeah, I want to say thank you so much.

1469
02:35:06,000 --> 02:35:12,560
We've been talking for two and a half hours, but you know, the, the, the lens that you have through

1470
02:35:12,560 --> 02:35:17,760
from nine, you know, from, from New York through to Paris, I think is invaluable. And even though

1471
02:35:17,760 --> 02:35:24,160
the documentary speak volumes, your, you know, yours and Gédion's story through your eyes,

1472
02:35:24,160 --> 02:35:28,320
through your words, I think is something that a lot of us haven't heard. So thank you so much

1473
02:35:28,320 --> 02:35:29,520
for being so generous today.

1474
02:35:29,520 --> 02:35:34,800
Oh no, my pleasure. And thank you to you and all the, these amazing first responders, you know,

1475
02:35:34,800 --> 02:35:41,040
where we're, all we do is, is, is really an homage to them and a way to say thank you in a way that

1476
02:35:41,040 --> 02:35:44,640
we'll never be able to thank them enough. You know, they're what, how can you thank someone who

1477
02:35:44,640 --> 02:35:50,720
saved your life? So it's our pleasure and it's our honor to be able to, to help in any small way.

1478
02:35:50,720 --> 02:36:18,720
So it was a fun conversation. I really appreciate it.