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This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran owned and operated performance optimization company that I introduced recently as a sponsor on this show.

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Well, since then, I have actually been using my products and I've had incredible success.

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There was initial blood work that was extremely detailed, and based on that, they offered supplementation.

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So I began taking DHEA, BPC157 for inflammation, based on the fact that I've been a stump man and martial artist and a firefighter my whole life, lots of aches and pains,

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Dihexa to help cognition after multiple punches to the head and shift work and peptides.

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Four months later, they did a detailed blood work again, and I was actually able to taper off two of the peptides because my body had responded so well to just one of them that it was optimized at that point.

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So I cannot speak highly enough of the immense range of supplementation that they offer, whether it's male health, female health, peptides to boost your own testosterone, which I would argue is needed by a lot of the fire service,

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or whether it's exogenous testosterone needed, especially after TBIs or advanced age.

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Now, as I mentioned before, the other side of this company is an altruistic arm called the Transcend Foundation,

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which is putting veterans and first responders through some of their protocols free of charge.

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Now Transcend are also offering you the audience 10% off their protocols, and you can find that on JamesGearing.com under the products tab.

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And if you want to hear more about Transcend and their story, listen to episode 808 with the founder Ernie Colling, or go to TranscendCompany.com.

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Welcome to the Pioneer Shield podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing, and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show movement therapist and the woman behind the six, Sonia McVeigh.

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Now in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from her own childhood trauma, her journey into Pilates, working with Formula One drivers, the fatal Tubbs fire in 2017, working with the wildland community,

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injury rehab, performance versus pain, mental health, and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library of almost a thousand episodes now. So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Sonia McVeigh. Enjoy.

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Well, Sonia, I want to start by saying thank you so much for taking the time and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Thank you. I'm really happy to be here and excited. It's an honor.

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So where on planet Earth are we finding you today?

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I live in Santa Rosa, California, and that's also the location of my business.

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Well, I'd love to start at the beginning of your timeline. So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings?

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Yeah, we could actually spend three hours on that, but I won't. I'll spare you. I was born in San Francisco. I have two biologically drug addicted parents.

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So my twin brother and I actually were born in San Francisco. I'm 40 years old. We stayed in the foster care system until we were five and then adopted by a pretty beautiful family who actually adopted four children and raised in the Sonoma County area, various towns here.

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So it's funny, I just had a guest on Christina Dent, who was self described, how does she say it, a Christian conservative, homeschool Christian conservative.

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And she had certain views about addiction that you hear more often in that group. And she was a foster parent.

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And it was actually a young mother who was an addict that was really working to try and get her daughter back that she realized, oh, these are just people that are struggling.

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It's not this certain kind of label that we slapped on some of them. So it's such an important conversation, especially when you talk about the break broken households that everyone refers to as the kind of underlying issue of a lot of problems.

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So talk to me about that. Do you know the kind of origin story of your parents addiction and then walk me through the journey as a foster child?

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Yeah, I do. What's what's been really incredible in my life is this tenacity to survive. And I have I have a lot to say about that in terms of me being the first in many generations to not be an addict and to not kind of go down that road.

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My twin brother and I being adopted clearly was a huge part of that. And when you spend the formidable, formidable part of your childhood in a, you know, cold, hot situation, it's to me, unfortunately, and fortunately, because of who I am today, you decide how it's going to go.

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Right. So there's just I'm going to champion through this. And I really believe that young children can adopt that mentality, even though it's not fair.

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You know, or I'm going to sort of sink with a ship. So what I do know is that my grandparents on both sides biologically were also addicts, more or less the home that I was born in and went back and forth to where my birth mother resided, had uncles, aunts, cousins.

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I could easily call it sort of a meth den. We were surrounded by drugs and, you know, and smoke and alcohol, hard drugs every time we went home.

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My twin brother is the person I've known my whole life. And at that time, I really adopted this protective nature of him.

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It was very abusive, both sexually and physically. And I know that now I have so much more grace for the illness of addiction.

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Fortunately, I was able to find my birth father, who was two hours away my whole life about 10 years ago, who has been clean from hard drugs for about 15 to 17 years.

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And that took an incredible amount of work to dive in and get committed to our relationship, which we're great friends now.

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I got to watch my father, they raised me, embrace him. And it was one of the most powerful moments of my life, watching those two men hug and have mercy for each other.

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Interestingly enough, I also grew up in a very fundamental Christian household, so I have a whole other kind of process about that.

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I was just able to talk to my parents about it with my sister this last weekend.

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So in terms of my head and how I was raised, I have a lot of thoughts. In terms of where I come from, it's very dark and there's many generations of it.

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One of my drivers to support, I say people in a badge, people in the military, people that would stand up and protect those that they don't know, were the men and women that stood on my behalf as a child.

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And the small reports that I've been able to read, why we got pulled from our home was because it was an abusive situation.

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And it meant them going back in again and again and again. I definitely was stuck in a system for too long, as far as I'm concerned.

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But that's the story that we hear repeatedly. So I actually met my mom and dad that adopted me when we were babies.

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We were like 15 months, if I'm remembering the timeline perfectly. But it took years of going back into an abusive household many, many times, every time.

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Every time we went back. So that's the story. And I've been able to confront and face many of my childhood demons, which is pretty remarkable.

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You know, it's pretty remarkable that I got to stand in space and do that.

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Including my father, he was 17 when he had my twin brother and I.

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James, I've written so many people on Facebook and said, I think I'm your, to him, I think I'm your daughter.

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I think I'm your sister. I think I'm your granddaughter. I think I'm your, you know, and I've been right most of the time.

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And that journey, if I was going to write a separate book aside from my career, it's absolutely wild. It's just wild.

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I found other siblings. One was three months younger than me working in San Francisco as a pathologist.

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She's just brilliant. It's just, it's wild. It's an Oprah slash Jerry Springer story.

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Well, this is why it's so important. Obviously, we're going to get to the physical side, you know, and the first responders in a little bit.

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But it doesn't matter who it is, whether it's Navy SEALs and SAS or fire or police or, you know,

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strength and conditioning coaches and ballet dancers. I mean, I've had so many different people on the show.

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And almost everyone has certain levels of trauma and that trauma, you could lay it side by side and go, well, this is worse than this.

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But it's not to that person at that time, whether they felt like they were an unloved middle child or whether they were exposed to sexual and narcotic abuse.

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It's trauma, you know, and when we look back and we negate that and we bury it down and we say, boys, don't cry and excuse me and suck it up.

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Then, you know, that's left to Germany. And as a phrase, I quote all the time, it was in my last book.

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They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. And I love that.

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Like you can push it down, but eventually it's going to grow. And so the hearing all, I mean, almost a thousand stories now and how many people have gone through things.

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And they meet you face to face. And, you know, let's say it was as you were processing meeting your father and there was anger and emotion.

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They meet you in a coffee shop and go, well, she's shitty.

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It's like, well, there's an entire lifetime behind that.

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So it's so beautiful to hear your biological father and the father that raised you embracing because you've got a man who needed help and a man who stood up and helped.

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And I think that couldn't be more Christian, to be honest.

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Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, James, it was so interesting. So I this this doesn't matter. And it does. Right.

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So I my my birth mother is half black and I have a black grandfather and that the parents that I had or excuse me, the relatives that I had met for in my childhood were black and brown people.

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I'm obviously a little I've got a little color to me and my twin brother.

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And then my family that raised me was very Irish. They're like short and Irish and white and southern.

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They're very like we don't look like each other. And I never felt adopted.

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I always felt a little wild, like I wanted to do climb trees and not do the church girl thing.

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I'll say that. And when I when I met my birth father for the first time, coming from a really conservative background, he is like six, four, six, five.

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He's got prison tattoos all over his arms. And he he writes a Harley.

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And he it's this giant biker. And he looked like this huge clone of my twin brother.

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But he was a big white guy. And I just I remember not being able to talk.

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This part of me was like, oh, my gosh, I understand this this kind of wild hair that I've always had.

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And I guess I remember just not being able to speak because the the mannerisms were so similar.

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And I hadn't seen that in somebody that looked like him, looked like my brother so much.

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And again, my twin brother is just the only person that I grew up with completely my whole life.

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And I was just shell shocked watching how he moved his hands and and spoke and articulated.

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And we did get in a we did get in an altercation because he wanted me to get on his bike.

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And I said no. And I wanted to hop in my minivan.

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The first time we met and he he wanted to go take shots of it was like tequila at a bar.

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And I was this total church girl. It was just this meeting of the Titans.

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And the you're absolutely right.

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It's like there couldn't be two men that were different.

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And what I love about who I am now is that they stood for each other from completely different backgrounds,

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completely different lifestyles, you know, just in the current climate of the world today and of culture that people

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people really won't let go of their microaggressions and their beliefs about their communities to be with each other,

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let alone take a stand that says I'm going to I'm going to raise your children for you and then have the grace to not be in judgment when they met.

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And I'm coming to my father that raised me saying I need to hear my story.

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And a lot of it was to make peace with trauma that I had thought that I remembered, but I wasn't sure.

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And when I heard the stories, they were 100 times worse than I thought.

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I was trying to close loops of faint memories when I was a child.

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And then I found out it was my grandmother. My biological father's story is way worse than mine.

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It was horrible to hear.

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And I know how lucky that I am that I got to hear it and speak into it.

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I had a coach come in at one point and like, we're going to we're going to tussle this out and figure out how to have a family repair that has multiple generations of trauma.

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That multi-generational story is, I think, so needed at the moment.

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It's actually part of the book that I'm just finishing up that we discussed before I hit record.

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But again, when you look back, oh, it's the broken households, it's this, this, this, you know, that you just see this cycle.

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And if you dig into these guests, you know, their upbringing and if they're able to, the parents that bring just like you said, you realize these are falling dominoes.

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And there's that phrase, you know, hurt people, hurt people, and they do a lot.

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But what's beautiful in this kind of silo that I found myself is that hurt people help people when they can actually process their trauma.

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And then that becomes, I argue, a superpower. I really do.

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So with your own journey, what were some of the tools that you found along the way that able to process that?

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Because I know, especially in kids that had on that were adopted or fostered or parent or both parents just left was why wasn't that good enough?

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And that's something that seems to burn a lot in those children.

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Yeah, yeah. I'm going to I don't remember who wrote this quote.

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James, I'll have to I'll have to find out later, but I I'm obsessed with with quotes.

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I'm actually writing a leadership quote book right now because I'd like to read one powerful thing and have it simmer and process it.

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But I wrote a quote and it's I know it's a really powerful woman.

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And I'm like, I can remember. But she more or less said that I've never not been terrified for a moment in my life.

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And I did it anyways. And that's what I believe is very true about me.

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I'm not a person in general that feels a large amount of safety or a large amount of internal peace.

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I will fight for it until I die.

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But I came to realize that I didn't have to feel safe before I completed mission, before I ran after a task.

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Safety doesn't trump who I am to the world.

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And I felt like especially in the in the Christian rhetoric that we're supposed to have this peace that passes all understanding.

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And, you know, when you land at your mission or at your drive and when you understand who you are to the world,

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it should feel a particular way. And I kept wrestling with myself and giving myself anxiety going, but I don't I don't feel that way.

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I feel less and I feel scared and I feel anxious sometimes badly.

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Sometimes I can't sleep. Sometimes I'm throwing myself into tachycardia.

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Sometimes I have to coach myself to get out of bed. And there came a point,

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I think it was really when I started having my my children where it was like, so what?

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Like, plus nothing. So I don't look or reach for the absence of fear.

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I look for the thing that makes me feel that thing bigger, if that makes sense.

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It's like and the the thing that I've created, the mission in my life, which is serving people that serve strangers.

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I feel bigger than anything in the world, aside from being a mother, you know, and aside from the family part of my life.

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The the space of fear just doesn't matter.

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I have to fight it a lot, but it's not something that I give power to.

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And I feel like a lot of people that have experienced trauma, if if they would stop expecting the fear to leave and start finding something bigger,

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they would find the hope that they're looking for.

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Love it. Well, we're going to get into, you know, basically the body keeps the score element in a minute.

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But speaking of physicality, when you were in the school ages, what were you doing and playing as far as sports and exercise?

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All of them. This is oh, man, talk about talk about church culture.

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So I grew up during the I Kissed, Dated and Goodbye era in church.

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There's the the gentleman that wrote that book.

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And I'll explain what that means if you're not from our the culture that I grew up in.

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There was something called purity culture, which was, you know, nothing physical, nothing sexual.

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I am going to I'm going to space out on this guy's name.

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I'm horrible names, but he he wrote this book and it said basically you should wait until your first kiss until you're at the altar.

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And we would go to these huge purity rallies. We had purity rings.

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And we're going to wait to do anything physical. I'm going to I'm going to answer this.

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It'll make sense. No, no, no. Take your time. Yeah.

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And until you until you get married. And so it was especially that way for females, for women.

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I loved every sport. I wanted to climb trees. I had a Nick.

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My nickname now is Siege, like like under siege.

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If you are around people that know me, it was my fighting name and my boxing name because I wanted gloves on.

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I was fighting the boys. I was playing street hockey. I was playing football. All the things in my culture that I grew up in.

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If you were physically in the space of a boy, which is who I wanted to play with, that was not appropriate.

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And the first time that became a really big heartbreak for me, I was we had this physical fitness testing in the in the homeschool program I was in.

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And I was removed from the testing and told that I had to do a sit up test by myself because my breasts were too large.

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And I was I was I'm five, nine. I'm built like an Amazon. I had quads for days and I'm curvy.

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And I remember being like what like having no idea.

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You know, I started you have to wear shorts under your little Catholic schoolgirl skirt.

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You can't play. You can't play ball anymore. And it absolutely broke my heart.

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It apps. And I and I remember being like baffled, too, because I wasn't in a sexual space at all.

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And yet in the culture we were in, it was like completely not acceptable to be like tackling.

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And I'm like, I just want to crush everyone. That's what's happening for me.

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I remember one time I beat one of our pastor's sons at a sprint and they made me do it repeatedly because they couldn't believe it.

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It was like too. It was too big for them. And what's really cool,

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it's a sad part of my story because I feel like it was just so inappropriate to a young girl.

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But what's great is that my dad, after I was like not doing well in charm school and not I broke my foot in ballet.

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Who does that? Right. My dad started allowing me to play sports where I started thriving.

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So it was soccer, it was volleyball. And then I got really good at throwing the javelin,

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which I was able to do for our local junior college out here.

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And I did qualify for the Junior Olympics almost with no practice. I was just really good at throwing.

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So, I mean, honestly, there's not a sport I can think of that I didn't play,

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but I really had to vie for my spot to be able to play sports as a young girl and to love doing that.

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I mean, it's a it's a joke in our family. I was running around with like shoes untied.

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My hair was a mess. I would get in a screaming match with my mom every Sunday morning because I didn't want to put a dress on.

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It was no, I was I have five brothers and they the beautiful thing about them is they're all like musicians.

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They're beautiful men and they write. They have these huge hearts.

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And I just wanted to conquer all of the sports.

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And I it brought me you can see me smiling now. It was just so much joy.

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And I got hurt constantly. I can tell you crutches and stitches or, you know, my dad,

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we call that the hospital of my dad would be in the bathroom and he get the super glue out and the safety pins and fix it himself.

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So, you know, ultimately, that's that's sports brought me joy.

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And I had to fight for it because of the culture that we were in again.

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So it's interesting because I just got to talk to my parents about what it was like for me feeling shame because I had had sexual assault as a child.

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And then I'm a physical person wanting to play sports and then feeling shame again because it got seen sexually.

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And I they were like, yeah, I don't really think we knew.

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And I'm like, man, every all the Sunday school, all the youth group, you know, all the things.

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And I'm a great speaker. So I was always in charge.

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I was like speaking for the abstinence groups, which was ridiculous.

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Now I'm like, oh, man, I'm sorry, every human.

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I had never kissed a boy. Right. I'm like preaching abstinence.

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And I was always on stages, always talking.

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And I I hope that as my career grows, I would love to get back on those stages and speak from the wisdom I have now and say, hey,

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this is really what I think that that God intended.

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This is really what I think would be great.

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You know, and I'm so sorry.

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What would you say differently? Because, I mean, obviously, you know, there are so many upsides to waiting for the right person, you know,

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the the healthy way that you have a physical relationship and, you know, obviously being mindful of pregnancy and diseases and all these other things.

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What would your rhetoric be this time?

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Yeah. Well, I have to have it now because I have teenagers now and I've been like on pins and needles in terms of.

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If we were to talk about God and take and take like a quote Christian perspective, I would say that to me,

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the the deepest part of sexuality is nonexistent when there's not the depth of intimacy and taking the time to grow in intimacy means the tussle and the friction of relationship.

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And so in my opinion now, if you have not gone through the tussle and the friction in the work of agreeing and disagreeing and sharing ideas and sharing dreams and creating vision with a partner,

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then you have no business sleeping with them.

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And, you know, the reason for that for me with my children speak as a mom is so that they get to experience the fullness of what love really means.

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And we can't pull sex away from that at all.

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What I would say is certain is that there's not a shame in knowing who you are.

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A physical body is very much a part of your mental body and your spiritual body.

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And pulling them apart in any way, I don't think is healthy.

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So you can't say this is only sex or this is only my mind or this is only my soul.

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You know, we are trying beings at best.

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I think everybody knows that.

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And for me, when you try to pull them apart or you say that you can, I don't believe that that's true.

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And so, you know, for me, for the first time in my life with my partner, I hope that I never sleep with another man again.

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Like and this is the first time I felt like that at 40.

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You know, I had to I had to figure it out and go like, man, I the the tussle that I've had spiritually and emotionally with him makes this the most present physically I've ever been.

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And I think that that is worth fighting for.

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And in the context of what marriage used to be, I totally believe in that in the context of what it is now.

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I don't. So, yeah.

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Yeah, it's really it's been interesting.

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I got thrown into being single after my divorce when I was in the late 30s and fumbling around through dating.

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There were some physical intimacies of people I'd just met and it was so unfulfilling.

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I'm sure it was for them, too.

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But, you know, and then I finally found my my wife now, we've been together for almost 12 years.

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And it was that thing again.

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And I never was never the person that was, you know, jealous when I was married the first time, wanting to be out with, you know, strange or whatever you want to phrase it.

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But then you put into it and you're like, this is this is really shit.

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Like on the films and all the kind of stories I heard in the firehouse, that's supposed to be amazing.

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But I thought it was it was kind of crap.

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So if you could put that into your mind, just how awkward it is having sex with a stranger that you have no connection with and you could magically implant that.

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I think that would really give a lot of fire to what you're talking about.

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Like the real passion, the real intimacy creates the sex that you actually enjoy.

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The one that is worth coming back for another one.

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Yeah. I mean, I think ultimately, as is with anything in life that's physical, it's like how how don't lie to yourself about how present you are.

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Because I you know, this is this is the longest six months and this is the longest relationship I've been in in three years.

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And which is good for me just to be like, yeah, no, I know what I'm after.

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And for me, it would not be true if I said that I was present, you know, in the in the case of being physical and dating at all.

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And I also would press in to people that say that it doesn't matter.

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You know, choice is choice. And like people are cleared.

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There's not a judgment for me, especially as somebody that's an assault survivor.

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When I started recognizing that I was not mentally present, just saying like, yep, this is fun.

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It was almost like, why am I giving permission for being disassociated?

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Like, why am I choosing that? And, you know, you could you could say like, well, yes, it's fine to eat a whole cake or it's fine to, you know, I'm going to do this drug one last time.

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And it really started just during a court when I started listening to how I was communicating and talking to myself.

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This is fine. And I just I actually want to be present.

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And the work of that was hard.

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And I recognized even in my previous marriage that I wasn't present.

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And I'm like, well, I'm going to have to talk about this with my partner and choose a partner that I can have this integrity with.

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You know, I found that I had practices where I would like cover my face with a pillow and think it was fine.

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And I'd say, well, I've got 80 days distracting. That was such that was not true.

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It was like I'm actually just not mentally connecting and making it fine.

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And it wasn't fine. So I think I mean, I could talk about this again for like three hours.

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It also wasn't fine that I had a lot of shame from the way that I grew up.

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And it wasn't fine that I thought sex was bad and that my physical desires were bad.

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That's not true either. I think that it's really beautiful when two people are

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solely in charge of each other's sexuality, because it's a big responsibility. Right.

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Like, I like handcuffs. I don't. Right. Or whatever it is.

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I'm talking to firefighters. You get it. It's like whatever it is.

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Like, there's also not shame there.

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But can you do that in the container where there's not judgment and it's not it's just who you are.

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You know. So, yeah.

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Absolutely. Well, that's shame. I was I was raised, you know, my dad, who has, you know, his stuff in the past, too.

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But it was always like sex is dirty. Oh, don't talk about that.

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You know, there was that shame. And I was the son of a vet, a veterinary surgeon.

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So they could have easily explained, hey, humans have sex the same way the animals do.

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And that would have been it done.

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Instead, they told me that you pray to God and he puts a baby in your tummy.

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And then I'm sitting in a classroom in high school and they're explaining how it actually happens.

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And I'm like, you fucking lied to me.

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So, you know, you've got that kind of.

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That's the right way of saying it. You don't have the right information.

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Then you've been layered on with the shame.

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It does not sex set you up for a successful first sexual experience or relationship experience.

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So that shame that obviously can sometimes come from religions is so toxic, I think.

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As you said, owning your own body and being responsible and in charge, that is an essential element.

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But adding shame and guilt to sex, I think is very detrimental.

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Right. And it really, in my opinion, sexuality is an exact reflection of intimacy,

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both that you have with yourself and that you have with your partner.

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You know, and I also think that so is so is our physical performance in general.

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It's again, this idea that is it really possible to pull apart your physical performance?

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Period. The end. Right.

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And orgasm is a fast switch muscle response inside your body.

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So when I go like, OK, what affects that breath pattern?

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What affects that nervous system? Right.

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So there's this huge conversation where I know that if we are willing, if I am willing to do the work,

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then I get to have something to me, I call it biblical sex, because I used to get told when I was a kid like,

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and then you're going to have the best sex ever, just don't touch anything in sex bed.

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It was so crazy because it was not my experience in my in my first marriage.

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I did. I did wait until I was married and it was I had no business.

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I just had no business. I feel like there's like I'm sorry, kids, dad.

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And I seriously it was so it was so bad.

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You know, I just had no knowledge. I had no knowledge.

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And also intimacy with a man takes work, you know, and I'm I all people can do all things,

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but I don't believe that men and women think entirely the same or function entirely the same.

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And, you know, the the way that two people can come together and create mental intimacy,

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particularly a man and woman, it just it's just not the same.

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And I'm like, and there's this beautiful thing that I believe that that God created where physically we can just be

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a picture of what that means. You know, and I'm like, yeah, people that have bad sex obviously,

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like aren't having good talks. Go back to the war room and get a wipe wipe or and talk it out.

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You know, if you're uncomfortable about your body, I spend a lot of time with men, most of my time with men.

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And you know what I don't hear men say? You know what?

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I don't want to be intimate with my wife because her legs are hairy.

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It's like the things that we get hung up on as women are the things that I get hung up on.

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I rarely hear men say that.

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I'm just like, man, we're preaching abstinence where men are these like when I was a kid,

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like these these sexual mongers. And I'm like, yeah, I just I just don't think that that's that's true.

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I think when a man feels respected and seen and nurtured, which women are powerful at,

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there is an intimacy that is just wild. And I think that it far surpasses a woman's physical perception of herself.

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You know, and yet we just suffocate ourselves trying to be I know, because I did it.

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I was not a tiny human, you know, some big, big biracial Amazon girl.

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And I'm very proud of that now. But it took me a long time.

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And I can tell you that when I was searching for what it meant sexually for me to be single,

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I had this idea, well, I want to prove to everybody that I can get a hot guy.

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And I did, you know, it was like, great. All the hottest men.

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And it was so unfulfilling. It was so it was so unfulfilling.

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God smiled down on me now because I have quite the partner.

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I think he gave me a second chance.

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It like wasn't the thing. I didn't need to prove anything.

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I needed to accept who I was.

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Yeah, couldn't agree more. Well, speaking of the physical side,

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this walk through your journey into physical therapy then.

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So from school, what were you dreaming of becoming?

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And how did that take you into the PT road? Yeah. Yeah.

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So I'm not a physical therapist. We'll talk about that.

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I'm sorry. I'm massage therapist. Yeah. Yeah. Sort of.

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I'll explain it. Well, you know what's what's wild, James,

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is that I went to school to study practical ministry and theology.

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I went to a tiny Bible college and I have a small degree from a school in San Francisco.

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I don't even think exists anymore.

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I was at this huge music festival.

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My first love has always been music and singing.

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I come from like the Vontrapp family singers.

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And there was a table of small Christian accredited colleges.

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And this I walked by.

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I graduated high school early, took the California proficiency exam.

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I was 16, 17 years old.

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And this guy had his beard shaved into stars and dyed red.

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And I was like, that's that's a church school.

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And I dad, dad, I'm going to go there because I always felt, you know,

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I had like a nose ring back in the day. That was a big deal.

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And they were focused on serving the homeless community in the city

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and focused on being in ministry.

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And at the time, I had traveled to Africa

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multiple times with one of my dear friends and mentors and done like AIDS relief work

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and youth leadership. And I 100 percent was in.

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And that's the school that I went to.

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And I wanted to understand God and I wanted to serve people.

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And what ended up happening from that, I graduated,

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I got the job that I thought I wanted.

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And then I learned quickly that as a 19, 20 year old woman in ministry,

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I did not care for the politics.

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So naively, but with my foot down, I actually chose to move to Romania

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for about a year and a half, way up into the Ticuć mountains.

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I had been there before with a not Christian organization on purpose.

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It was called the Global Volunteer Network

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and sort of have this quote, come to Jesus moment.

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And I'm like, I don't I don't think this is it for me,

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but I had thought that my whole life.

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And luckily for me, the I get there and I kid you not,

364
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this couple from Texas had watched a 60 minute documentary on orphans

365
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in Romania and had moved everything to build houses to rehome orphans

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that had been put in this horrible communist area and basically left for dead.

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And a lot of the kids were you could rehab them from trauma,

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but they didn't have enough workers.

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So they sort of moved and moved to the mountains and hired Irish builders

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and built three houses to rehab these kids.

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And I got there by train by myself through the mountains.

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And this woman with a huge white beehive and a giant t-shirt

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with a sparkly puff painted American flag came out and she said

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in a crazy accent, I believe in the Bible and shit,

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but don't be getting caught up on that.

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And then she said, you're going to go into the house that we don't put people in.

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I think you can do it.

378
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So I go into this house where we were supposed to serve.

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They were on a farm with severely disabled children.

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00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,240
Nobody spoke English.

381
00:36:57,240 --> 00:36:59,200
We did not have the right equipment.

382
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:04,080
The kids were would have like autism and cerebral palsy, you know, plus, plus, plus.

383
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,040
And we had like a room that was tiled where we would bathe the kids.

384
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:09,440
We would work on the farm.

385
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,160
And that was kind of it.

386
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,760
I got tasked with creating a choir with a bunch of disabled children.

387
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:18,720
This is such a great story.

388
00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:19,560
That's like what we had to do.

389
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,560
And I'm like, I don't know how I'm going to do that, because I told them that I was a singer.

390
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,920
And we would we wheeled the kids out and I was just trying to get them to clap like this.

391
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,560
And I'm like, does anybody know a song because some of the children could speak.

392
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:36,560
And they brought out an old like radio with a cassette

393
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,480
and they started playing like a virgin by Madonna.

394
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:45,680
No way.

395
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:51,880
And I think I think we sang like Jesus Loves Me, you know, over and over again.

396
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,160
And that was the claim to fame.

397
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,080
Was that on the B side?

398
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,080
Yeah.

399
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:04,440
The bigger claim to fame was that I absolutely, absolutely fell in love with children.

400
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,960
And there was it was mostly nonverbal.

401
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,960
The women that worked, their abuse was rampant in their in their culture.

402
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,280
They would come in with like black eyes, alcoholism was rampant.

403
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,040
And then they would work hours and hours and hours and hours,

404
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,520
bathing these children that they became theirs.

405
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:22,640
Like makes me emotional.

406
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,120
It was just absolutely powerful.

407
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,640
And there would be these I think it was like once a week or twice a week.

408
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:34,280
I don't know if this guy was a PT or not, but we would wheel the kids out side

409
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,880
anytime something exciting happened, which was him coming and he would do joint mobility with the kids.

410
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,680
And again, like these kids were stuck in their wheelchairs for the most part.

411
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,040
And their whole spirits would just lift.

412
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:50,960
And I sorry, this is just such a this was my moment.

413
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:56,440
I remember feeling so lost when I got there because I thought I was going to do this thing my whole life.

414
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,800
And there was this little boy named Alex, I think I don't think he was super young.

415
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,000
I think he was a teenager.

416
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,600
And he was they basically had to tie him down because he would hurt himself.

417
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,080
He had C.P. and he tried to move and he'd hurt his hands.

418
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:18,200
And he would just scream and he was happy and he would cry and immediately piece of wash over him

419
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,040
when somebody was just being with him, touching his body, moving him.

420
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,000
And I knew at that moment, I don't know what they're doing.

421
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,520
I have a degree in ministry and theology.

422
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:30,880
I need to do that thing.

423
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:37,160
And suddenly, like the joy of sports from when I was a kid and the power of,

424
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:43,720
I believe, like human touch to restore such brokenness and such pain just shook me.

425
00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:46,720
And I'm like, I need to do that thing.

426
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:52,200
And that was for me, I think the first time I can say that I like audibly and violently felt God in my whole body.

427
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,080
And I knew why I was on the planet.

428
00:39:55,080 --> 00:40:04,720
More so than that, as I was on that journey, I'd always had this huge desire to serve veterans, which is where I started.

429
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:12,720
And I came home and I enrolled to be a Pilates teacher because I had had some rehab done from sports as a kid.

430
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:20,960
And I sat in this room with all these women that were ballerinas, again, I'm me.

431
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:30,080
And there was women that had one woman had a double master's in kinesiology, people that have been trainers and in this line of work for years.

432
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:31,240
And they said, what do you do?

433
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:36,080
And I'm like, I lead worship and I have a degree from a Bible school.

434
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,240
And it was there you go.

435
00:40:39,240 --> 00:40:43,440
And at the time, I had no interest in knowing anatomy.

436
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,920
I'm incredibly dyslexic and I hate school.

437
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:52,680
I had every interest in laying hands on people that were hurting and rocking the world and changing their lives.

438
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,920
And I can say now I'm a total anatomy nerd.

439
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:01,560
But I didn't start this journey because I cared at all about it.

440
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,280
I didn't. I not at all.

441
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,960
I just wanted to love people that way.

442
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,440
And I wanted to champion people that way.

443
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:21,000
And I wanted that when and I wanted to like selfishly be the person that was like running alongside, you know, when when my when my patient has that moment of like, I did it.

444
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:28,680
I wanted to just soak up that like, oh, yes, like be right there when you realize your full potential.

445
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,200
And that that's what did it for me.

446
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,160
That's what started the whole the whole journey.

447
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,840
And I had to start my life like completely from scratch.

448
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,880
Luckily, I was pretty young.

449
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,720
Yeah, beautiful. I'm so glad that we found ourselves there.

450
00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:43,280
What about the the path?

451
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:47,560
We didn't do a traditional PT or empty track.

452
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:54,680
Talk to me about that, because it's funny how many people, myself included, were in ex of ex fears or some of these other degree programs.

453
00:41:54,680 --> 00:42:01,840
And really, it was the two day workshops and diving into people's techniques that actually were the real toolbox that they formed.

454
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:09,480
Yeah, yeah. So I mean, the thing that I knew about myself is was like, I'm dyslexic.

455
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,200
I have these things. And what's great is I'm not a person.

456
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,520
Right. I talked about this earlier where that's going to stop me.

457
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,560
I'm like, wow, I feel this, but that's not going to stop me.

458
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,200
We got to figure this out.

459
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,600
So the first thing I did was become a Pilates teacher.

460
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,040
And I was really, really good at it. I was young.

461
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,920
I had these math classes in the owner of the studio I was at.

462
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:36,480
Her name was Monica Anderson, would have to come in and help actually support me teaching class,

463
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,800
because these normal classes were 15 people and I would pack it out.

464
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,960
There'd be like 50 people. I was packing the whole shop out.

465
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:47,720
And I tell stories and be crazy and have fun. I just loved it. I just loved it.

466
00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:51,720
It was electric in that room. And then I kept going and getting educated.

467
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:57,000
So I got Pilates like a mat certification and there's all the equipment.

468
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,400
And after a couple of years of that, I was teaching full time. It was crazy.

469
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,840
I was driving around as a trainer, more or less.

470
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,960
I was actually pregnant. I got married and pregnant early.

471
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:11,360
So I was 23 when I had my first daughter. I kept trudging along.

472
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,120
And Alice and Monica, they own this studio.

473
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,400
Monica said, OK, you got to pick a specialty. Like, what are you doing now?

474
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,480
You need to keep going.

475
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,600
And I was like, I don't know. Specialty is people. I don't care.

476
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,560
And I kept on brushing her off. No, I don't do this.

477
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:30,680
And finally, I thought about it.

478
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:35,320
I started teaching teachers and I'm like, I want to help people fix their backs.

479
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,760
I'm going to choose spine pathologies and special populations.

480
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:43,720
So that meant people that had hip replacements, osteoarthritis, arthritis, things like that.

481
00:43:43,720 --> 00:43:46,600
People that are injured and not moving well.

482
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,240
And so I would get like scoliosis specific.

483
00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:51,720
There's a woman named Karina Thaik lineback that I followed.

484
00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:55,440
Then I went to her course. And then I got crazy for courses.

485
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,800
I started getting obsessed with taking courses.

486
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:05,960
And then I realized, wait, this is the path to that to that thing that I had happened in Romania.

487
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:12,920
So years and years and I had taken probably 20 or so of those two or three courses in Pilates.

488
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,720
At that point, I was considered a master trainer because I had over 10000 hours of time in,

489
00:44:17,720 --> 00:44:27,440
which is I did fast. And I decided to take a RT, which is called it's active release techniques.

490
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,680
I was not a massage therapist. I am not a chiropractor.

491
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,840
I had not gone to school for that.

492
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:39,640
I had just had a child again and I got told I was crazy.

493
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:43,120
I called and they're like, well, you can't actually you can cut.

494
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:47,880
We'll take your money, but you can't actually touch people because you're not a massage therapist.

495
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:54,600
And you're also you haven't mostly chiropractors do this chiropractors and osteopaths and PTs.

496
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,840
And I was like, OK, so I can come.

497
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:04,680
And they said yes. And I went to this course passing as a 90 and I got an 84.

498
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:11,000
And this course, I the person that tested me was the soft tissue doctor for Nike Pro,

499
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,600
like highly, highly trained people of this thing.

500
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:16,320
It was manual therapy.

501
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,520
But what I kept hearing over and over again was you have magic hands.

502
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,840
And I'm like, that's great. And people were shocked that they had no school.

503
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,040
Like I'd never gotten educated on touch at all ever.

504
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:31,920
And I'm like, awesome. And I'll tell you what I failed anterior tibialis,

505
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:33,480
which is like the easiest muscle on the planet.

506
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,840
It's a front of the shin. I remember I had a rash.

507
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,720
I was sweating or shaking. I thought I was going to throw up.

508
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:45,000
And I air he's complicated fiber direction is all kinds of stuff.

509
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,480
But I knew that the coach wanted the win for me.

510
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,240
And I just stood there and cried.

511
00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:55,360
I couldn't remember. But 90 was passing.

512
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,360
84 was so close.

513
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:03,320
And I went back and got 100 percent every other time.

514
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,560
Until I got a full body credential and I got nicknamed there.

515
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:08,840
They called me the Pilates wedge.

516
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:13,000
People were not understanding how I was passing.

517
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,480
And I could see things. The beautiful thing about A.R.T.

518
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:20,640
for me was I had been moving bodies as a coach very specifically for many, many years.

519
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:25,360
So it was really my hands understanding what I had been coaching people to do.

520
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,160
I'm like, yeah, I can see this when there's when there's movement that's not correct.

521
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,720
I can see this when there's an efficiency. This is me feeling it.

522
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:37,600
And then I went back and I got in California at the time, it was a massage practitioner.

523
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,800
It was like 100 hours so I could get insured to practice A.R.T.

524
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,280
And in that school, they were like, wait, you're A.R.T. certified.

525
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,000
Do A.R.T. fix my ankle.

526
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:51,560
So I actually got permission to test out of that early, which I did.

527
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:56,160
And then I found something called NKT because at this time I had started working with veterans,

528
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,960
which is neuro kinetic therapy.

529
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,480
I took all of their highest courses on that.

530
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,880
I earned another nickname because people were like, you're not a doctor.

531
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,400
You don't have the right school.

532
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,240
And I was really, really good at it.

533
00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:10,760
And I'm like, yeah, I'm just good at it.

534
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,640
But also, I studied my ass off.

535
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,720
I was there the first I was a first person in the morning.

536
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:18,600
I was the last person at night.

537
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:22,320
I remember pictures. Words get really flip flopped for me.

538
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:27,320
And I would find anybody that would work with me and say, like, let me let me let me see your toe.

539
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,120
Let me see your finger. Let me see your elbow so I could touch it.

540
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,240
And and find my way. And I did.

541
00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:37,760
And that was I took probably about a year and a half to do that.

542
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:42,360
And then people were taking notice and I got to go do Ironman for A.R.T.

543
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:48,440
I had a really great experience getting invited to go work on some of the Ferrari racing teams on Aston Martin.

544
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,760
People started bringing all these high level athletes in and I it was just a high.

545
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:57,480
It was like the greatest. It was the greatest, greatest thing.

546
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:03,120
Yeah, I mean, I can tell you in there really kind of starts the veteran first responder journey.

547
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:09,080
But I spent a decent amount of time getting what is called continuing education.

548
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:14,040
That's really built for osteopaths and for physical therapists and for chiropractors.

549
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:20,480
I did that as a master trainer and got in church is what I did.

550
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,080
And then I had to do the work and prove it. You know, I had to prove it.

551
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:30,120
And that, especially with the population that we're in now, that's just grit.

552
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:34,400
You know, and I'd come. Luckily, I had come from everyone telling me that I was nuts.

553
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,920
You know, like you're not going to pass. And it was just more fuel for the fire.

554
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,280
And like I get that nothing makes sense, but my whole life doesn't make sense.

555
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:42,800
Like you're not saying something new.

556
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:47,480
And there's that again, I'm going to keep throwing out like if fear is the biggest thing,

557
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:53,320
then of course it doesn't make sense. But I'm not taking a knee because I'm afraid I'm going to do it anyways.

558
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:58,280
And if I sit there and cry, if I throw up a fact, I explain myself 800 times.

559
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:05,000
I'd rather go through the humiliation of my own human condition than died, not trying.

560
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:09,080
Yeah, absolutely. And it's something that I've been a kind of reoccurring theme recently.

561
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:12,960
People paralyzed by fear, even in positions of responsibility.

562
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,040
I mean, I've said this, you know, if you are, for example,

563
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:20,480
the fire chief of a department that's had multiple suicides or cancer losses or whatever,

564
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:25,280
you know, then you need to be courageous. You need to search the corners of the world,

565
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,080
looking for solutions for your people.

566
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:33,440
You know, if you're the president of a country that's 70 percent overweight and obese and is crippling opioid epidemic,

567
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,680
you need the courage to step up and say it's not working me to change it.

568
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:42,880
But I feel like, again, masculinity used to be the word courage has been distorted.

569
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:48,640
And you can do some symbolic gesture and all of a sudden the world loses their mind over it.

570
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:53,680
But that's not courage. That's just, you know, it's again, it's a moment.

571
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:59,120
But courage is actually doing what's unpopular and something that you might not reap the benefits from.

572
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,240
Courage is selfless.

573
00:50:01,240 --> 00:50:07,200
Yeah, you're totally right. And I mean, masculinity and femininity, it took me a while,

574
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:14,960
especially as the company grew, not to not to lead with masculinity, because that's easy for me.

575
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:21,480
Right. I've been in men's sports. I work with mostly men. I've got five brothers.

576
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:29,400
And I found that when I was masculine forward, I'm entering into competition versus partnership.

577
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:36,680
And what's natural for me and I like I'm a strong I'm a I'm a badass woman, 100 percent.

578
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:46,960
And my natural most powerful state is the kind of care that the world dreams about is hard and heavy nurturing.

579
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:52,880
It's like I will stand by you and hold you through fire, you know, on every mountain.

580
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:57,760
If you're committed, I'm committed. And when I started leading that way,

581
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:05,000
doors started opening that would not have opened because I was presenting in my early years in a way that said

582
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:10,320
I can match your energy instead of I can partner with your energy.

583
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:16,760
You mentioned working with high level sports teams, you know, Nike and the Formula One drivers.

584
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:21,440
Walk me through first the veteran community. How did you find yourself immersed within them?

585
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:27,040
Yeah, this is cool. Again, it's just like it's an unconventional story, but I love it. It's mine, right?

586
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:35,480
I I I remember being a kid when I was early teaching Pilates and I started to really get clear about my vision.

587
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:41,880
And I veterans were just something that was in my heart. I don't have a bigger or better story.

588
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:50,480
I just knew I want to help these guys. I do remember as a child in fantasy about who my father was,

589
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:55,480
he was always a vet or a firefighter or police officer or Batman or Spider-Man.

590
00:51:55,480 --> 00:52:00,360
Some somebody with a badge or some kind of a superhero in my fantasy.

591
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:05,720
I had a photo of him that I used to sleep with and my father that raised me is a complete hero.

592
00:52:05,720 --> 00:52:10,120
And he's not the badge guy. He's he's a pharmacist and he's very gentle.

593
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:17,240
You know, this kind of hippie guy. For me, I always had this like, you know, hulk of a badge wearing man in my head.

594
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:25,920
And the rescue that I felt and that I acknowledge, you know, in terms of being able to be adopted,

595
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:30,000
really holds a place in my heart that's not beatable.

596
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:35,480
And I think that that's where that call to veterans came from, because there's to me, I think, as a kid,

597
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:40,040
nothing bigger that I could think of like going to war. Right.

598
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:44,080
I'm going to go to I'm going to go to war for people that I don't know.

599
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:49,560
And I I remember telling the business owners that I was working with and I worked there for many, many years.

600
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:53,320
And they're like, yeah, well, you're not a vet. You don't know any vets.

601
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:59,480
You're crazy. I heard that a lot. And I by the time I opened my first shop, it was tiny.

602
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:05,760
It was like 300 square feet. I was renting a room. It was blocks away from the VA.

603
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:10,960
And I work up the courage and I walked into the VA and there's the admin desk.

604
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,800
And I said, hi, I had just come from my weekend with Ferrari.

605
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:20,280
So I thought it was super cool. And I said, hi, I'm not sure if you know who I am or not.

606
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,880
But I want to volunteer in your physical therapy clinic.

607
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,920
I thought I could do a R.T. on their vets. And that's what I want to do.

608
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:30,640
And I got told I could lick stamps. This is a true story.

609
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:32,760
They said, no, but you could you could probably lick stamps.

610
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,760
And I, you know what? I'm not going to lick stamps.

611
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:40,760
And I very defeated sat in the waiting room and I looked around.

612
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,280
There was a guy on my left and there's a guy on my right, older gentleman.

613
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,280
And this gentleman said, what are you doing here?

614
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,800
And I'm like, well, I'm trying to volunteer. And I told him my story and who I was.

615
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,680
And he said, great. Can you look at my wrist? Yeah.

616
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:59,760
So I look at his wrist and he was a Vietnam veteran and he had all kinds of scarring from an explosive on his wrist.

617
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,880
And I'm like, can I work on it? So we sat in the waiting room and I worked on his wrist.

618
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,960
And he's like, this is this feels way better. I did a R.T. on his wrist.

619
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:13,400
And A.R.T. is an amazing therapy. And I invited him and the gentleman next to him to come to my office, which is really close.

620
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:19,120
And I began the journey of treating veterans for free for many, many, many years and their families.

621
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:25,240
And I had I had no idea what I was getting myself into at all.

622
00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:34,720
But what happened is I fell in love again with a people that had been completely ostracized, completely poorly treated, not had the right medicine.

623
00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:41,680
And because I had had my background and because I understand trauma and it was able to enter in because because it was different trauma, honestly.

624
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:47,480
Right. And like, well, I haven't been in war, but I know what it feels like to be ostracized and I know what pain feels like.

625
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:58,800
I started going we can't use the same pain mechanisms for people going through behavioral crisis and traumatic exposure that we can for the civilian space.

626
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,560
It doesn't make any sense because your nervous system doesn't respond the same.

627
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:09,000
You know, I was finding like, well, I'm triggering somebody because of where my table is in relationship to the door.

628
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:14,000
The windows closed. I'm sitting behind their bodies and they would get like all upset and be crying.

629
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:18,040
And, you know, these are these are tough, tough people.

630
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:26,920
And then when I started to figure out what was going on and ask questions and they were like just so kind to share what was happening in their bodies,

631
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:40,440
I then ended up going to take that the neurokinesiology I told you about to understand more about how is this physiologically responding differently and how do I dive into this?

632
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,920
And then magic started happening and people started getting better.

633
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:49,760
And sometimes it was just because I understood that I needed to treat them physically in a different space.

634
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:53,480
Sometimes it was because I knew they needed their partner with them.

635
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:58,640
Sometimes it was because and then largely it started to be because I knew the right questions to ask.

636
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:05,680
You know, the is your pain one to ten doesn't make sense for a population who got trained for their pain scale to be zero to dead.

637
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:15,200
You know, it it doesn't make sense to talk about social anxiety when somebody doesn't have somebody next to them that's that's willing to die for them.

638
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:21,200
Right. When your mentality is a sandbox, then you go home and your brother is not with you and you feel anxious all the time.

639
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,800
I started to go, well, I understand that I know how that feels.

640
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:33,320
And I had this extreme level of compassion that I wanted to meet what I knew about sports.

641
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:41,440
And I don't know, man, it was like on that thing, I found that unceasing thing that bypassed what I was scared of.

642
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:48,400
And I knew I was a civilian. I knew I didn't come from anything that made sense, but I knew that I wasn't going to stop.

643
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:55,040
And then we didn't. And I mean, I didn't want to be a huge business owner ever.

644
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:59,360
I never wanted to do that. I wanted that Romanian experience.

645
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:03,480
But this time it was like with people that I had a passion for.

646
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:11,120
And, you know, from there, after spending years and years, I started inviting their families to come.

647
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:16,920
I started slowly getting bigger and bigger spaces, which I never I'm like, I don't want to do this.

648
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:20,560
And I didn't I wasn't willing to turn anyone away.

649
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:25,960
And we at one point hit a sweet spot where I was probably treating like 50 vets for free,

650
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,440
plus all my civilian clients that were paying for it.

651
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:32,360
And I just I just paid for it. I just I just paid for it.

652
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:38,360
I felt like my family was taking care of and they became my family.

653
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:46,240
And, you know, there's been many times in my career where I I remember like praying, going, I really want to stop now.

654
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:51,360
I feel like I'm in a good flow. And it was like this challenge to take on more.

655
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:56,440
And ultimately, that population started to turn into firefighters and police officers.

656
00:57:56,440 --> 00:58:02,920
And again, I would stop and go like, oh, I don't know if I can do more.

657
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:08,720
And every time I would I would was able to enter in firefighters were first.

658
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:12,160
I got an invitation and I said no a couple of times.

659
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:18,520
He's now the deputy chief and I my great friend, he's seen I am like, no, I don't want to take I don't want to take that on.

660
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,880
I also feel very strongly about saying you're proficient in sports when you're not.

661
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:31,640
So for me, like, I don't know fire the fire service proficiently enough to say that I'm an expert here to bring my team and to bring myself in.

662
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:39,320
And we sat I got asked, but he asked if I would go to lunch with him and we sat and it's always Mexican.

663
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:42,360
We sat and had I think margaritas and I drank margaritas.

664
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,560
He did not edit at a taco place across from where my shop was.

665
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:49,480
And he started telling me the story of a fire.

666
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:54,920
He's a great man and a great brother and a great he's a great fighter, too.

667
00:58:54,920 --> 00:59:00,320
And then when 2017 happened, I'd already really started working in those populations.

668
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:05,600
But I was in fire camp at the front lines with many, many, many departments.

669
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,200
And my heart broke. And I said, why does this sound like the VA?

670
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:14,400
I knew the VA already because I had been working with veterans for many years at this point.

671
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:18,520
But I didn't know that it was so comparable.

672
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:23,880
And I even now, even today, like it makes me sick.

673
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:28,160
And I think perhaps it's 10 percent better.

674
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:30,520
You know, I can't honestly say I know.

675
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:37,880
But when I was sitting with firefighters from all over the state and even outside of the states in my own town, I was outside of my own house.

676
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:42,640
I didn't know if it had burned down or not. You know, when we lost friends, we lost family, people lost their homes.

677
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:51,560
And our firefighters who were putting their lives in the line had no equipment and really ill equipment,

678
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:57,680
like no equipment as in not enough engines, no equipment as in we don't have water, no equipment as in we don't have jackets,

679
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:01,800
no equipment as in there's not bandages, no like no equipment.

680
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:05,200
I just couldn't understand how that was happening in my backyard.

681
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:09,680
But I don't get it. Where's spot the dog and the really clean turnouts?

682
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:14,560
That's what I thought as a civilian, you know, coming into that space.

683
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:17,280
Right. Where's the firefighter calendar? That's what these guys do.

684
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:22,320
Right. And it was just heart wrenching.

685
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:25,680
I just stood and I went, this is such a lie.

686
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:29,080
This is how how do I think this?

687
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:31,320
How do I think this?

688
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,120
And then I'm like, all right, rock and roll.

689
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:40,280
So I started serving firefighters at our local stations.

690
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:45,080
And again, 2019, another fire got a call.

691
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:52,040
And it's interesting because in each of those instances, the public would come in and think that they were helping and they would stay for a day or two.

692
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:55,640
I would be there for weeks. I would always end up by myself.

693
01:00:55,640 --> 01:01:01,240
And at one point in armory, there's fire and there's military.

694
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:08,040
One of the gentlemen in charge there, he ended up he was a doctor and he's like, I don't understand what you think.

695
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:09,600
This is soft tissue. I don't do this.

696
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,960
And I ended up finding people that had broken backs.

697
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:18,000
I would call friends that were chiropractors and say, hey, a great friend, can you X-ray this hip?

698
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:19,760
Can you X-ray this back? Can you?

699
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:23,000
And he just started getting his pat out and doing what I told him to do.

700
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:27,080
And then we were making sure people that had their hands on our guys were certified.

701
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:30,960
And there's there's a couple of nonprofits that have sprung out from there.

702
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:39,320
But again, like I had these huge radical experiences with international emergencies where the the lack of equipment,

703
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:49,360
the lack of behavioral health, because that started to pop in, was dauntingly like the fail of the of the VA.

704
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:53,240
And so it goes and then the police department followed.

705
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:55,720
And those guys were my hardest for sure.

706
01:01:55,720 --> 01:02:01,960
The fire department, I think, has politics that are that are that kick my butt the most. But,

707
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:09,000
you know, it it's so interesting because in my life, I'm about 20 years and I'm 10 years hard into this.

708
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:15,880
I many, many people want to say that they work with firefighters specifically because I think it's sexy.

709
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:20,960
You know, like they want the stamp on their business that says they serve firefighters.

710
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:24,240
No, you don't. No, they don't.

711
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,560
And, you know, and I it just makes me sick.

712
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:31,920
So, again, it was a moment in my life where I'm like, oh, do I want to grow again?

713
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:37,360
And me me being here has cost me my life over and over and over and over.

714
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:43,800
You know, when I moved into the facility I'm in now, my husband at the time had an affair with my best friend.

715
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:48,920
And then covid hit and the politics got huge.

716
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:52,400
Also, the civil unrest from BLM happened. Right.

717
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:55,680
I'm biracial. All of this stuff happened at one time.

718
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:59,960
We dumped 60 percent of our revenue. I lost a really big contract.

719
01:02:59,960 --> 01:03:04,160
I was out over six figures for sure.

720
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:07,640
Going through horrific time at home.

721
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:13,520
My husband was a veteran at the time. He is a veteran and going through horrific PTSD.

722
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:18,560
It was violent at home. And I stood here and stood here and stood here and stood here.

723
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:27,840
And that's not accolades for me. It's just pointing out that like for this population, it's there is this 100 percent admiration.

724
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:31,240
That's beautiful. But the underbelly is dark.

725
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:38,960
It's the underbelly is dark. And for me, when when I meet people that say that they work with the fire service or the police department or veterans,

726
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:44,440
I know if they've sat in the underbelly or not. You know, and it's like it's where I'm cutting.

727
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:54,040
I'm like, if you haven't been there and stayed standing, if you haven't been there, I don't want to talk to you because it's cute for six months until it's not tell you lose your first guy.

728
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:59,880
Right. Or until politics happen or until life life gets to you.

729
01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:04,640
And that's where, again, there's this part where you just choose to stay standing or not.

730
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:07,240
And my my firefighters don't have a choice.

731
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:10,640
You know, it's like feed my family or go down.

732
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:15,800
And I'm like, OK, again, like my commitment is to stand with you. And so here I am.

733
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:19,000
And we've got great, great things happening now.

734
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:27,280
But there was years where I was like, oh, my gosh, you know, this is this is kicking my butt a little bit.

735
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:33,840
But for all of those years, there's 100 or plus, you know, magical moments that have also happened.

736
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:35,480
Well, you mentioned about the VA.

737
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:41,600
Well, I think what's sad is when people are working in the fire service at that moment, they have at least health insurance.

738
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:47,400
But the moment you retire, you're fired, you know, whatever happened, there is no VA for the first responders.

739
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:50,880
It's just out the back door Cobra for a year, which no one can afford.

740
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:57,240
And then see you, you know, with all the accumulation of mental and physical injuries of a career.

741
01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,200
You mentioned that your dad was a pharmacist.

742
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:02,840
You have obviously come through a very holistic path.

743
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:08,960
When I hear a lot of the veterans on the show talking about the VA, one of the biggest things is that they throw pills at them.

744
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:14,760
Obviously, things like, you know, Walter Reed, excuse me, phenomenal things are happening in the VA as well.

745
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:19,240
So it depends on which umbrella and which group you particularly are part of.

746
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:22,480
But the health care system as a whole is very broken.

747
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:29,200
I mean, you know, we have a profit based system, which, as we talked about earlier with addiction, you get people hooked and you want them to be a lifeline addict.

748
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:37,680
So whether it's, you know, blood pressure meds or, you know, diabetes meds, whatever it is, there's not a conversation about prevention or reversal of diseases.

749
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:40,320
It's just take these meds and shut up.

750
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:47,880
So what have been the conversations you've had with your dad coming from a pharmaceutical background with you following the holistic path?

751
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:53,000
Yeah. Well, what's what's cool about my dad is that my dad is Jesus plus nothing.

752
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:58,200
He's a diehard, you know, Jesus fan.

753
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:00,000
He's got all those albums.

754
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:12,120
Yeah. So so what's great about how I grew up with him being a pharmacist is that it was really I think he's a science nerd, you know, more than anything else, because we we did not go to the hospital.

755
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:13,680
We didn't we did not do pills.

756
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:19,600
Like, I mean, there there was times where I'm like, yeah, we dad, we really should have gone to the hospital.

757
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:22,880
But his first was he'd be like, all right, we're going to pray for you.

758
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:26,600
And he'd lay on lay the hands on your foot or whatever was broken.

759
01:06:26,600 --> 01:06:30,600
And I had asthma my whole life from being a preemie.

760
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:32,560
My mother was on drugs and she had us. Right.

761
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:38,520
So it was like even in the times I was the sickest and growing up sick, it was always we're going to pray for you first.

762
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:45,600
And he would invite friends. There'd be like 15 people praying for me before there was ever any medical intervention.

763
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:53,720
And it it's this kind of crazy thing where there there's arguments for both sides.

764
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:57,520
Right. Like, no, like I never had medication for dyslexia.

765
01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:01,640
In fact, we went to the eye doctor and they said they told me that my brain was farting.

766
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:04,080
Nobody mentioned dyslexia until I was in college.

767
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:07,960
And I I knew I'm like, wow, my eyes must be really bad.

768
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:12,040
That's what I thought. And finally, a doctor was like, your your eyes are not that bad.

769
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:16,000
You have extreme adult dyslexia, both with numbers and letters.

770
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:28,080
But what happened from me not having meds for things like ADD, dyslexia, anxiety, is that I had to create a resilience that is pretty profound.

771
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:31,000
Right. For for somebody that has my story.

772
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:39,080
And I had to create a willingness to lean in before I went there.

773
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:44,440
And so now I think I have a really healthy relationship with pharma.

774
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:51,160
I also have a very large idea of how gross it is.

775
01:07:51,160 --> 01:07:59,720
And I think a lot of that is because I see and know what's available before we intervene with drugs like that.

776
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:03,520
You know, because stress really is a thing. Trauma really is a thing.

777
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:07,520
Anxiety really is a thing. Drinking enough water really is a thing.

778
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:11,120
You know, there's there's so much to do before.

779
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:19,400
And my dad, if you ask my dad right now what the answer is, for the most part, he'll say, did you pray for them first?

780
01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:22,880
And did you invite them to dinner? Did you break bread with them?

781
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:29,920
And if we zoom out and we talk about the psychology of that, did you create community?

782
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:38,160
And if you really zoom out and you look scientifically at what, you know, quote, treats trauma exposure, it's community hands down.

783
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:42,680
And in his words, perhaps he would say it differently, but that's what was happening.

784
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:51,760
And you're going to hear me say every time I interview and talk about this, I tried to create my mom's living room because healing happened there.

785
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:58,360
And there was like always banana bread and spaghetti and she just feed like troughs of people.

786
01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:01,680
But the table was always set and the table was always open.

787
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:06,040
And again, there were people that would look at somebody like my bio father and embrace them.

788
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:11,080
And, you know, we've forgotten that that we are each other's medicine.

789
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:17,600
You know, we become so hypocritical and so polarizing and people want to have all their microaggressions come out.

790
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:19,720
People think they're oppressed because of disagreement.

791
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:23,040
And there's really not the kind of community that we used to have.

792
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:25,560
And that is medicine.

793
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:34,040
If you ask what a firefighter craves, especially when they have to leave and nobody calls them right over and over, going to hear that story.

794
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:40,720
I went out, nobody called me and their heart is broken because they miss their brothers.

795
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:43,800
They miss their sisters. It's like I just lost my family.

796
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:49,720
It's like going through this huge divorce after you've put your whole entire life into it.

797
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:53,960
And that to me, that doesn't necessarily require meds.

798
01:09:53,960 --> 01:10:03,640
That requires me sharing that one of the most important things I tell young people in badges now is don't make this your whole life.

799
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:11,640
Because when you leave, you need to walk into a family, you know, so you don't have that huge crash, that huge disassociation.

800
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:14,960
So, I mean, that's what I think the magic of my family was.

801
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:19,480
And I've got obviously a huge amount to say about Workers' Comp in the VA.

802
01:10:19,480 --> 01:10:29,840
Veterans do have the VA, but many, many people in my experience that I've met in the veteran community that actually saw some pretty intense war don't even have a rating.

803
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:36,880
And many of those people then and they become a firefighter or a police officer and they don't have anything to do with it.

804
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:41,960
So and it's interesting, because departments and hiring, I've talked to many local departments about this.

805
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:46,560
They want a veteran, but there's no like extra screening at all.

806
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:51,240
So they haven't actually had the conversation. Hey, what was your exposure like in war?

807
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:52,920
They just move them right along through.

808
01:10:52,920 --> 01:11:02,560
So I've seen people come home from war and go right into the fire service or right into the police academy with nothing and then have that job.

809
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:06,320
And then go into comp and then and later we're trying to catch up.

810
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:08,760
So now we're five years in, we're 10 years in.

811
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:12,320
Do you have a rating? No. Why not? Well, I didn't want to lose my job.

812
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:16,120
You know, there's all that. I see that quite a bit.

813
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:21,560
With the first responder, you talked about the calendars and the caricature of a firefighter, for example.

814
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:23,840
And we are expected to be very physical.

815
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:27,320
I mean, I love the term tactical athletes because we are.

816
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:35,360
When you actually had these responders in front of you, though, were there any physical or mental elements that surprised you,

817
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:39,440
you know, contrary to the kind of facade that you had prior?

818
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:41,520
Yeah, yeah, James, all of them.

819
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:56,920
I was trying to condense so many thoughts into one, and I do think that the glaring one is the difference between the actuality of a firefighter's career experience and the public perception.

820
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:00,360
I think that they are night and day.

821
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:05,360
You know, and I think the biggest thing with behavioral health really leans into what I was just saying,

822
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:21,600
and that is that the mental resiliency that it takes to adopt a job and perform a job well that is a life and death job

823
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:31,760
and lean into the people on your team and lean into your partners that way and then completely adopt

824
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:38,240
a different perspective when you go home is incredibly mentally and spiritual taxing.

825
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:53,560
It takes I call it mental fitness and the public and medicine not acknowledging the exhaustion of that by itself is a huge fail, in my opinion.

826
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:58,480
You know, it's doing that every day, right, doing that every day for 28 years.

827
01:12:58,480 --> 01:13:02,520
And I think it takes a really special person to do that.

828
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:14,400
I also think that we would lose way less firefighters if we acknowledge out loud that there is a warrior class that chooses to adopt that career.

829
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,480
And there isn't anything wrong with you.

830
01:13:17,480 --> 01:13:21,600
It's hard, you know, like there's nothing wrong.

831
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:22,600
There's nothing wrong.

832
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:30,320
I mean, when I listen, I'm like, so you I, you know, after somebody's had a hot call and like, so you're telling me that you're human,

833
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:34,440
that it was hard, that that thing you saw was hard and you can't sleep.

834
01:13:34,440 --> 01:13:36,000
You're not a bad firefighter.

835
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:40,560
You're a human and you're an extraordinary human.

836
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:45,600
So for me, I don't like this rhetoric of you need all these pills.

837
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:48,800
We need to go to therapy and that there's not anything wrong with therapy.

838
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:54,880
But what I'm more passionate about is coaching people into how do I close the gap?

839
01:13:54,880 --> 01:14:06,040
How do I kind of stop the cycle of spinning from the firehouse to home and how to create a life worth living in both?

840
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:15,400
You know, how do I get intimate with my partner and with my family about mentally the jujitsu that I have to do every day?

841
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:17,400
And I think that keeps being the biggest thing.

842
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:22,120
And I could go into like micro stories about why I think that.

843
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:30,760
But I really believe and speak this out any time I'm able to be with people from the fire service or from the law enforcement,

844
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:36,720
that if we just spoke that truth, a lot of things would change.

845
01:14:36,720 --> 01:14:42,920
You work with some of the most high performing sportspeople, F1 and some of the other ones.

846
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:47,960
And I've had many people on that either were that person or they were coaching that person.

847
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:50,560
And we dive into their rest and recovery.

848
01:14:50,560 --> 01:15:00,120
One of the things that I think is pure insanity and is a large chunk of this pie of this problem that we have is the lack of rest and recovery that our first responders get.

849
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:08,440
And the fire service specifically, if you talk in municipal, are working 56 hours a week, certainly in California, a lot of places where I used to work.

850
01:15:08,440 --> 01:15:15,520
And then you have this recruitment crisis, and now you've got responders working 80 plus hours a week, sometimes even more.

851
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:19,240
What were you observing as far as the impact of shifts?

852
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:20,440
Because to me, it's insanity.

853
01:15:20,440 --> 01:15:23,080
We've just we've just never evolved to the level of calls.

854
01:15:23,080 --> 01:15:36,720
But what were you seeing having this kind of one lens on high performance in the sporting world and the I'm assuming contrast in the men and women whose literally their lives are in their hands?

855
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:44,680
Yeah, I mean, a high level athlete needs to perform for a season or for a weekend.

856
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:48,720
So you talk about a football season, a baseball season.

857
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:51,320
So at high capacity, I'm not suggesting they don't have to train.

858
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:53,800
But in terms of, hey, game on, I need to show up.

859
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:56,040
This is this is go time.

860
01:15:56,040 --> 01:15:59,320
You know, in the case of a race at best, it's going to be 24 hours.

861
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:01,040
Right. And a race car is that a lot?

862
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:03,680
And yeah, that's it. That's a shit ton.

863
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:05,760
But it's for 24 hours.

864
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:08,400
So, I mean, really, it's like not that hard to answer.

865
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:14,960
I'm like, well, you have three months of a football season versus 28 years.

866
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:23,600
And the other thing that that is huge is that any time I've ever gotten the privilege of working with high level athletes, I'm always on a team.

867
01:16:23,600 --> 01:16:26,240
It's not just me. I'm the A.R.T. person.

868
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:27,800
I'm the Pilates person. Right.

869
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:35,720
I'm the I'm one person in a team of multiple people all towards that athlete or all if the athletes, you know, incredibly high level.

870
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:44,600
But even just with a team like there's multiple people supporting the global health of that team or of that athlete.

871
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:47,960
And any other thing that you hit on that's huge is prevention.

872
01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:49,520
So there's no rest and recovery.

873
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:53,720
But also, you know, we we are in the middle of a tidal wave right now.

874
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:56,440
It's not like coming and we can fix it.

875
01:16:56,440 --> 01:16:58,440
We're we're drowning.

876
01:16:58,440 --> 01:17:04,480
It's like, you know, and still I'm still having to sit and prove it.

877
01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:07,120
And it's really interesting.

878
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:08,320
I'll say it like this.

879
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:23,080
When I'm in a department that has a huge percentage of their responders out on on workers comp, right, or a huge percentage that have had injury, right, like multiple suicides, cancers are high out on workers comp.

880
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:32,160
And I go and I say, hi, I have thirty five thousand hours of sports medicine time with your department and there's pushback.

881
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:33,360
That's insane to me.

882
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:41,720
It's insane that you'd say you have you have more than a failing grade and we're fighting like, why aren't you running to pay me to fix this?

883
01:17:41,720 --> 01:17:43,720
I mean, like that's not unheard of.

884
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:46,720
An athlete, a high level athlete.

885
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:48,720
Hi, you know what?

886
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:55,120
You threw that ball four miles less an hour.

887
01:17:55,120 --> 01:18:01,280
The shift is what can I do to get you to train me?

888
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:09,720
It's a totally different mentality, you know, and there's their coaches running out to find the best people to coach them.

889
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:21,200
You know, their their team like that, that's that's a whole that's a whole character and level of accountability that just I mean, honestly, I don't even think is that encouraged.

890
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:31,560
It's it's just it is crazy making. I have to talk myself out of frustration before I go into meetings a lot because I know I'm going to walk into that.

891
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:35,200
And I'm like, this is this is nuts.

892
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:43,640
Yeah, and it was really hard, honestly, when I started shifting over more and more to doing this full time, I was used to people begging me to treat them.

893
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:51,200
You know, like and I was young and it felt really good, but it was like, oh, you got Sonia to no way you got under schedule.

894
01:18:51,200 --> 01:18:52,720
Like, you know, like it was crazy.

895
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:55,240
Like I got flown to Daytona.

896
01:18:55,240 --> 01:18:57,240
Like, please come and work on our people.

897
01:18:57,240 --> 01:19:01,760
And then here, you know, what departments that are drowning.

898
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:04,760
It's like nuts. It's it's nuts.

899
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:08,480
It was great for my personal character development.

900
01:19:08,480 --> 01:19:13,760
And I guess I'm not that cool looking on the bright side.

901
01:19:13,760 --> 01:19:16,280
Yeah, it was it was really.

902
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:24,960
And it was like, again, am I going to let that fear take me over when people are like or just me getting bypassed because I don't look right.

903
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:27,280
I don't speak right. I don't write like I'm not a veteran.

904
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:29,920
I'm not. I've gotten that a lot. I'm not a first responder.

905
01:19:29,920 --> 01:19:34,640
I never said that I was. I just do know that I know who I am and I'm certain about who I am.

906
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:38,680
And I'm certain that in the country, nobody has the experience that I do.

907
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:43,480
I know that there are some really, really amazing practitioners out there and amazing programs.

908
01:19:43,480 --> 01:19:45,680
It's not the same. I know it's not.

909
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:52,960
So when I sit there and I have to explain myself to people that are losing firefighters,

910
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:56,840
you know, left and right, I it it it blows my mind.

911
01:19:56,840 --> 01:20:02,600
That's that's really the difference is I'm sitting there trying to convince people that they need me versus like,

912
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:06,280
heck, yeah, please come train our team.

913
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:12,360
So it's been crazy just just looking at it, because I mean, one of the things I get a lot is all of these kids today,

914
01:20:12,360 --> 01:20:13,960
you know, they don't want to be firefighters.

915
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:19,480
I'm like, that's bullshit because I've had just as many people, good leaders talking about all the,

916
01:20:19,480 --> 01:20:22,680
you know, the great things that come with this younger generation.

917
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:27,320
But what has obviously happened coming from a firefighter that got hired 20 years ago

918
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:32,760
when I was competing against, you know, my case, a thousand that were actually at the written test.

919
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:36,840
I mean, these spots were coveted and arguably you weren't just filling seats.

920
01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:41,320
You were filling seats with the top whatever percentage that you wanted to take.

921
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:45,160
So in out of a thousand, there were 30 spots when I tested.

922
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:47,480
So that's a pretty high percentage.

923
01:20:47,480 --> 01:20:53,680
The problem is, is that back then, when I researched what's it like to be a firefighter, I just got, you know, backdraft and that of 49.

924
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:57,960
It's all rah rah rah, you might die in a fire, but apart from that, everything's great.

925
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:02,120
20 years on, people are now researching what's it like to be a firefighter,

926
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:07,880
seeing all the great things that the actual job is about because it is a phenomenal calling.

927
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:14,680
But they also see the other stuff, the suicides, the cancers, the heart disease, the obesity, the divorces, you know, the addiction.

928
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:17,720
They're all there, you know, warts and all they're available as well.

929
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:23,440
And then you add in mandatory overtime and an already shitty work week and a pretty crappy pay.

930
01:21:23,440 --> 01:21:25,880
These people are going, this doesn't look very good.

931
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:28,520
And who would blame them? You know, who would blame them?

932
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:32,880
So the the leaders in the fire service have the power to fix this.

933
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:38,080
But as I was talking to Tulsi Gabbard a little while ago, even nationally,

934
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:44,040
there's this false economy that just keeps going over and over and over again.

935
01:21:44,040 --> 01:21:52,880
And these self-serving, whether they are politicians, chiefs, union members, whatever they are, they want to they want to bolster their career.

936
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:56,000
They want to look good this budget year or this election cycle.

937
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:58,080
And so there's complete cowardice.

938
01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:05,680
And as we said earlier, with with courage, we need people courageous enough to say what we did is not working and we need to change it.

939
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:10,480
And I might not even be here to see the benefits, but I know it's the right thing to do.

940
01:22:10,480 --> 01:22:12,360
Yep. Yeah, you're absolutely correct.

941
01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:27,480
I think I mean, I think that this the the city or county politics are even an issue well above the chiefs and the managers of our departments now.

942
01:22:27,480 --> 01:22:38,960
I think it starts there. You know, and I can say that I've seen great leaders go countless times to city councils and county councils and just get berated.

943
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:42,560
And I do believe exactly what you're saying about false economy.

944
01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:44,840
Right. Firefighters already make too much money.

945
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:48,000
I hear that all the time. Right. Well, it's not fair.

946
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:54,480
And I when I look at it and I'm like, you hold on, this guy just pulled one hundred and twenty hours.

947
01:22:54,480 --> 01:23:00,080
Right. It again, it's like not hard science.

948
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:06,520
So sometimes I like question myself, am I am I am I crazy right now?

949
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:09,280
I think we have the economy completely backwards.

950
01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:11,840
And I think that it is a courageous thing.

951
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:18,400
It's it's been I discontinued being a nonprofit because the politics were not something I was interested in.

952
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:21,400
And it became not that's something I wasn't expecting at all.

953
01:23:21,400 --> 01:23:24,240
Honestly, I'm like, oh, I'm going to I'm going to help this town.

954
01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:27,360
This is great, especially because I was around before our major fires.

955
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:33,200
Right. So to me, I was in a perfectly poised position to come in,

956
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:39,000
speak what we saw after thousands and thousands of hours with our local departments.

957
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:44,480
And it ended up.

958
01:23:44,480 --> 01:23:52,120
In a political space, I'll say that, and I was like, I'm just going to I'm going to stay down here in the weeds with my guys.

959
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:57,720
Ultimately is what I chose. And I'm going to do things like this.

960
01:23:57,720 --> 01:24:03,760
I'm going to I'm going to speak differently. And I did a couple of major media outlets.

961
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:13,080
I think in like 2019, I talked to the Today Show and a couple of other bigger sort of spaces just to go above the politics that I was in.

962
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:17,080
And I still will. I've talked to many senators. I've talked to the state.

963
01:24:17,080 --> 01:24:21,440
And my mind, I'm like, well, that's ridiculous. I'm going to go above your head.

964
01:24:21,440 --> 01:24:25,040
This doesn't this doesn't make any sense.

965
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:32,040
And it's sort of where where we're at now. And it took me I had to rewind my process because in my head,

966
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:40,720
I thought that nonprofit was the way to go. And quickly into that, I learned and I had a I had a pretty stellar board.

967
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:46,000
And I think that they were great. But I think that the politics were hard.

968
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:54,080
And I pulled back from that pretty quickly and realized I'm going to keep serving and I'm going to try and create a company.

969
01:24:54,080 --> 01:25:01,440
That's that's forward for people that doesn't have to adhere to the politics.

970
01:25:01,440 --> 01:25:05,440
So and you'll hear me sort of tiptoeing around my words now.

971
01:25:05,440 --> 01:25:14,120
I'm like, you know, because it was just I didn't think that I needed to convince people with the way things were going, that we needed help.

972
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:17,600
And it was like I'd say the word prevention and it was like blank stares.

973
01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:21,240
And I'm like, OK, well, I'm going to keep going.

974
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:27,640
You know, and I can't wait. I can't wait for for all this to come full circle.

975
01:25:27,640 --> 01:25:33,080
It's starting to now. But I know that my I say my guys, I know that there's girls.

976
01:25:33,080 --> 01:25:37,080
Women in the fire service don't seem to mind for the most part.

977
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:43,000
I can't wait to keep being a bigger gift to my local departments.

978
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:48,280
And, you know, they've they've watched me stand and go like, all right, we're going to I'm not going to go anywhere.

979
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:52,680
And I remember early on, you know, my firefighters, you know, you're never going to get the city.

980
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:54,840
You're never going to do this. You're never going to do that.

981
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:59,640
And I'm like, I don't know how, but I'm not going anywhere.

982
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:03,840
And if it's not through this avenue, it's going to be through a different avenue.

983
01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:07,000
And I'm like right at the finish line.

984
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:12,320
So I don't care how I get the help to them, but I will. I will.

985
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:19,480
That concept of social business seems to be a such better model than the nonprofit a lot of times.

986
01:26:19,480 --> 01:26:24,320
I know some of my friends that have nonprofits, I mean, they're constantly begging people for donations.

987
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:28,720
And I know other people that have their own companies making whatever it is,

988
01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:33,240
but X amount, however many percent always goes to the nonprofit arm.

989
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:36,040
Transcend and transcend foundations, a good example.

990
01:26:36,040 --> 01:26:38,080
So I think that really is the future.

991
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:40,920
I mean, you know, to have to rely on other people and like you said,

992
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:44,080
convincing people that more often than not don't care.

993
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:49,440
You're just, you know, in their folio of nonprofits so they can look good for the tax man rather than,

994
01:26:49,440 --> 01:26:57,760
you know, having in your case a for-profit therapy center, but also having a nonprofit arm to that.

995
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:01,440
Yeah. And we, I mean, that it's just, I think being an entrepreneur,

996
01:27:01,440 --> 01:27:07,120
especially with a service minded space, especially for this one, I've had to let go of a lot, too.

997
01:27:07,120 --> 01:27:14,240
I was convinced that I was kind of convince other people to hop on and that not so much.

998
01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:21,400
And but the people that are convinced and I have a much bigger business now and I'm really excited about it.

999
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:30,520
It I've had to die to the fantasy of how I thought this was going to go due to politics many times.

1000
01:27:30,520 --> 01:27:35,640
And I'm still here, you know, and I what makes me excited is as we grow,

1001
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:40,520
picking up other people that are as passionate that didn't survive the business part,

1002
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:46,440
but that have the experience in the heart because I'm I'm certain that there are a lot of even like retired firefighters

1003
01:27:46,440 --> 01:27:50,600
that have huge gifts to bring that don't have the business container.

1004
01:27:50,600 --> 01:27:55,520
And now that I do, I'm like, I want to pick up all of those black sheep that, you know,

1005
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:59,120
that kind of got caught in the weeds and create an army to come and help.

1006
01:27:59,120 --> 01:28:07,360
And, you know, because because we can now I'm like, I have such an interesting crew on my team.

1007
01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:12,880
One of my champions is a is a retired firefighter that did 28 years,

1008
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:16,040
and it took almost three years for him to get a new hip.

1009
01:28:16,040 --> 01:28:20,160
He's still not getting paid. It's in a total tangle with workers comp.

1010
01:28:20,160 --> 01:28:22,840
It's the whole story, James. You've heard it.

1011
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:25,360
He walked in here years ago and said, I can't be alone.

1012
01:28:25,360 --> 01:28:27,880
I had no idea who he was sat on the couch.

1013
01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:31,320
And I'm like, OK, great. So I got my you know, my wheel going.

1014
01:28:31,320 --> 01:28:35,440
He then turned around and saved my life from an acute asthma attack.

1015
01:28:35,440 --> 01:28:40,480
And now he's like running my office because he's like, I need something to do.

1016
01:28:40,480 --> 01:28:50,480
And, you know, watching him after he was in so much pain, this man, I like spasming pain every day for years

1017
01:28:50,480 --> 01:28:55,240
to try and get the medical attention he needed and the behavioral attention that he needed

1018
01:28:55,240 --> 01:29:04,200
and to watch him like I can see the fireman's back, just just running order around the office.

1019
01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:09,480
And he works alongside I call her my work wife, a veteran of 26 years, and her and him run it.

1020
01:29:09,480 --> 01:29:16,600
And there's the gift that he is to the firefighters that come in here when they see a brother

1021
01:29:16,600 --> 01:29:22,960
and the gift that he is to keeping a ship tight in terms of the program has been really, really amazing.

1022
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:28,520
And those are the people that I'm after where I'm like, you like we will chase your healing down.

1023
01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:35,920
You know, he was getting treated weekly in here before he came in and we threw every program we had at him.

1024
01:29:35,920 --> 01:29:41,160
And I got a brother out of it. Everyone's you know, it's family in here.

1025
01:29:41,160 --> 01:29:43,360
And I know the difference that he's going to make.

1026
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:50,200
And when I when I go send people out to departments now, I'm like, you're the first one that's going to go out because, you know,

1027
01:29:50,200 --> 01:29:57,240
and that feels really good. And I know that there's a lot of those people that got lost in the weights and I'm I'm going to go get them out.

1028
01:29:57,240 --> 01:30:03,200
Love it. Well, I in my career, I had a back injury that actually used foundation training,

1029
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:07,840
chiropractic and then exercise to get back without any surgery, any meds.

1030
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:10,560
But then I had a jug handle tears a buck handle test.

1031
01:30:10,560 --> 01:30:13,320
I forget what which which one is called on both meniscus.

1032
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:16,920
Obviously, I had to have that snip. So that was surgery and rehab as well.

1033
01:30:16,920 --> 01:30:25,000
But what I realized locally here and I live in central Florida was a lot of the physical therapy places that I was sent to with,

1034
01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:26,840
you know, they were all with the best intentions.

1035
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:29,440
They were used to dealing with 78 year olds.

1036
01:30:29,440 --> 01:30:32,920
So as long as I can stand up and get off the toilet, then I'm good to go.

1037
01:30:32,920 --> 01:30:39,240
And obviously, my first call when I get back to the fire station might be 100 pounds a gear, 20 stories up before I even go to work.

1038
01:30:39,240 --> 01:30:41,720
So slightly different bar.

1039
01:30:41,720 --> 01:30:52,200
What are you what were you seeing as far as the prescribed PT of these first responders that you were trying to get back to work versus what you were doing within your own walls?

1040
01:30:52,200 --> 01:30:55,600
Yeah, dude, it was so bad.

1041
01:30:55,600 --> 01:30:57,720
I mean, and I don't I know that there's great pts.

1042
01:30:57,720 --> 01:30:59,400
I don't want to sound like I'm horrible.

1043
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:06,200
But in general, let's just start with the fact that it was taking months like and I quote months to get an appointment.

1044
01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:14,360
And especially like I'm coming off of covid and and still there's like you can have a video appointment for a tear 14 weeks later.

1045
01:31:14,360 --> 01:31:16,800
And that was like classic, classic.

1046
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:22,400
I had female firefighters doing postnatal on Zoom.

1047
01:31:22,400 --> 01:31:24,680
Just mind blowing.

1048
01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:26,400
And I sit there and look and I get this look.

1049
01:31:26,400 --> 01:31:28,960
I know where I lean in and I'm like.

1050
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:34,480
Huh, OK, well, the wait time, first of all, is a problem.

1051
01:31:34,480 --> 01:31:37,240
I'll just say hands down like the wait time is unacceptable.

1052
01:31:37,240 --> 01:31:40,280
Period. The end unacceptable.

1053
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:48,760
I've seen things like people getting a QR code to scan with their phone to take them to a YouTube channel for their PT.

1054
01:31:48,760 --> 01:31:52,440
I love technology and I use it, but that was like it.

1055
01:31:52,440 --> 01:31:55,280
And we're talking about high the job of a firefighter.

1056
01:31:55,280 --> 01:31:57,720
Right. Just like mind blown.

1057
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:06,200
And the other thing, aside from all that shenanigans, was that I was not and did not see any fire service specific rehab.

1058
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:22,880
So if you look at the job of a firefighter, we're looking at oftentimes something that is a very unilateral physical demand, meaning one hand has an axe, one hand has a hold of this body that I'm trying to move its dead weight.

1059
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:26,040
There's one foot coming up into an engine.

1060
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:34,280
Somebody really requires cross training for that so that you don't end up with something like a shoulder tear, like sciatica, like rotated hips all the time.

1061
01:32:34,280 --> 01:32:42,000
It takes counter training and it also takes being able to hold stability unilaterally with both sides equally.

1062
01:32:42,000 --> 01:32:47,040
Well, what if your right arm is not available, but you never really train your left arm to be an extension?

1063
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:55,440
And when you get into an injury space like that, oftentimes we see closed chain and very acute exercises only for that part of the body.

1064
01:32:55,440 --> 01:32:59,960
Not for the larger physicality of what a firefighter has to do.

1065
01:32:59,960 --> 01:33:17,880
On a baseline level, stepping in and out of an engine multiple times, even if you're in a department where you're going to get five calls instead of 30 on a tour, you still chronically are creating instability and disjointedness in your SI, for instance.

1066
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:26,480
So things like that really, really affect physical therapy and rehab, in my opinion.

1067
01:33:26,480 --> 01:33:31,640
And I was not seeing anything specific to that at all, which is why I wrote it and changed how we do it.

1068
01:33:31,640 --> 01:33:33,960
I think that all rehab should be job specific.

1069
01:33:33,960 --> 01:33:36,280
This is including like, you know, me as a mom.

1070
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:38,680
What is your what are your daily tasks take?

1071
01:33:38,680 --> 01:33:40,800
And you're totally right in the O.T. space.

1072
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:42,960
Getting off a toilet is great.

1073
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:48,440
But what about getting a human off the toilet three stories up that weighs 400 pounds?

1074
01:33:48,440 --> 01:33:55,000
Because that's your job. Medical calls are something a lot of the public, I find, don't realize that the fire service does so much of.

1075
01:33:55,000 --> 01:33:59,480
It's a huge amount of the job that you are tasked with.

1076
01:33:59,480 --> 01:34:06,400
And it's I tell my people all the time, your job is a lot of strength and a very awkward space.

1077
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:11,400
So you talk about like a structure fire on top of all the gear that you have on or even a wildland.

1078
01:34:11,400 --> 01:34:16,200
You're not we don't need to go to the gym and train like a bro and make sure your biceps work.

1079
01:34:16,200 --> 01:34:18,720
Working out is great. It's better than not working out.

1080
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:24,360
But in terms of injury prevention and what we see over time, it's really not supporting your sport.

1081
01:34:24,360 --> 01:34:34,320
So I I actually can say I have not seen any fire specific rehab ever outside of the six.

1082
01:34:34,320 --> 01:34:37,360
I haven't seen it. I know people do yoga.

1083
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:39,480
I know there's a lot of really great programs.

1084
01:34:39,480 --> 01:34:45,600
A lot of those seem to be only somatics, which is great.

1085
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:48,600
Breath patterns for firefighters is a huge deal.

1086
01:34:48,600 --> 01:34:54,480
Right. It's a it's a huge deal in terms of I got to put my two masks on once I have that seal up.

1087
01:34:54,480 --> 01:34:58,560
Am I stable? Am I not stable? I hear that talked about never.

1088
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:03,280
I do hear about sleep hygiene and stress.

1089
01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:08,240
I'm not interested in only talking about that.

1090
01:35:08,240 --> 01:35:11,520
I I've said out loud, I don't care about your feelings.

1091
01:35:11,520 --> 01:35:15,560
I do care about your feelings, but I want all of it.

1092
01:35:15,560 --> 01:35:18,960
I selfishly want all of that. You are you are a whole person.

1093
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:21,160
It's not like only behavioral health.

1094
01:35:21,160 --> 01:35:26,720
So, you know, I think that what I've seen a lot in the fire service is much more behavioral support.

1095
01:35:26,720 --> 01:35:33,120
You know, I think there's been a lot of work there in terms of like stress, injury and exposure.

1096
01:35:33,120 --> 01:35:36,840
I think there's some some try there. It's more than zero.

1097
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:46,120
But I haven't seen a lot of fire programs do this, which is I understand that if your sleep is poor,

1098
01:35:46,120 --> 01:35:48,240
then you're going to have hormone imbalance.

1099
01:35:48,240 --> 01:35:50,920
You know, then you're going to have poor muscle response.

1100
01:35:50,920 --> 01:35:54,520
And I certainly haven't seen any movement that's specific to fire.

1101
01:35:54,520 --> 01:36:00,360
Absolutely not. Well, speaking of the trauma side, obviously, the book, The Body Keeps the Score,

1102
01:36:00,360 --> 01:36:07,800
is really a great read as far as how our emotions can be reflected in our actual physicality.

1103
01:36:07,800 --> 01:36:12,440
I just had a guest on from FDNY, one of their wellness guys, talking about TRE,

1104
01:36:12,440 --> 01:36:15,560
Trauma Release Exercises, which I've never heard before.

1105
01:36:15,560 --> 01:36:24,200
So talk to me about all the areas that you do in the six as far as actually being able to release some of that nervous element.

1106
01:36:24,200 --> 01:36:26,760
Yeah, that's so cool that they do that. That's cool.

1107
01:36:26,760 --> 01:36:29,080
Right. These bigger departments, they're starting to get it.

1108
01:36:29,080 --> 01:36:32,840
They have a lot of money, too, those guys.

1109
01:36:32,840 --> 01:36:44,200
Yeah. So we have here basically, first and foremost, all of our sports therapists are clinically trained and then there are six trained.

1110
01:36:44,200 --> 01:36:46,120
So, hey, this is what to expect.

1111
01:36:46,120 --> 01:36:55,920
The reason for that is that if somebody's nervous system starts to get hot, which you can you notice via breath pattern for the most part,

1112
01:36:55,920 --> 01:36:58,360
we need to stop what we're doing and address that first.

1113
01:36:58,360 --> 01:37:04,960
So if somebody starts to go into shock because I shoved my finger in a shoulder injury that happened during a hot call,

1114
01:37:04,960 --> 01:37:09,880
I need to be aware that that's happening and address that first.

1115
01:37:09,880 --> 01:37:12,120
So that's our first line of defense.

1116
01:37:12,120 --> 01:37:14,880
And again, like we're treating in firehouses now.

1117
01:37:14,880 --> 01:37:20,440
So people are at work. They're like awake. It's a different thing.

1118
01:37:20,440 --> 01:37:23,120
We pay attention to heart rate.

1119
01:37:23,120 --> 01:37:27,320
So one of our coaches does HRV, it's heart rate variability and something called heart math,

1120
01:37:27,320 --> 01:37:33,600
which I think is going to be a big deal pretty soon here in departments.

1121
01:37:33,600 --> 01:37:38,840
It's easy enough to read, but it'll really give somebody an idea of how am I responding right now?

1122
01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:42,520
What's happening right now? A lot of people confuse it with blood pressure.

1123
01:37:42,520 --> 01:37:50,040
It's not the same thing. It's, you know, basically giving you a nice picture into how you're responding in a space.

1124
01:37:50,040 --> 01:37:53,720
So oftentimes responders have really, really low HRVs.

1125
01:37:53,720 --> 01:37:59,560
Your body sort of starts to play dead and you can compartmentalize away as a whole for your health.

1126
01:37:59,560 --> 01:38:03,560
That's not a great thing. Sometimes people come in and it's super, super high, you know,

1127
01:38:03,560 --> 01:38:06,280
which is that hypervigilant space all the time.

1128
01:38:06,280 --> 01:38:10,200
And again, sometimes it'll read differently if somebody's at the station versus not at the station.

1129
01:38:10,200 --> 01:38:15,680
So we use a lot of that. The coaching component has been huge.

1130
01:38:15,680 --> 01:38:22,880
And in fact, we have live coaches here that have only worked with responders,

1131
01:38:22,880 --> 01:38:28,160
pretty high level coaches. We have a coach here who works for a company called Novus Global,

1132
01:38:28,160 --> 01:38:33,760
which is one of the biggest personal coaching businesses in the country.

1133
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:40,320
High, high level performers. But she also was a chaplain here for first responders for 15 years

1134
01:38:40,320 --> 01:38:43,920
and has done a lot of global leadership work.

1135
01:38:43,920 --> 01:38:48,080
When somebody comes in hot, I always refer to coaching.

1136
01:38:48,080 --> 01:38:51,280
So much so that in terms of the background part of our tech,

1137
01:38:51,280 --> 01:38:55,280
my partner is building a coaching platform that's responder specific.

1138
01:38:55,280 --> 01:38:59,120
And that is not to take the place of therapy, like I said,

1139
01:38:59,120 --> 01:39:05,440
but it's because that I believe we need to train people how to close the,

1140
01:39:05,440 --> 01:39:10,080
I'm at work, I need to close that loop the best that I can and then go home,

1141
01:39:11,040 --> 01:39:14,960
you know, and make that transition less hard. How do I do that?

1142
01:39:16,160 --> 01:39:21,040
I always say one of the biggest gifts that responders have is being a hope bringer,

1143
01:39:21,040 --> 01:39:26,800
right? You run into situations where it's often feels hopeless and you're there, right?

1144
01:39:26,800 --> 01:39:30,720
And that's the beautiful part that I love about the public perception. That's true.

1145
01:39:30,720 --> 01:39:34,640
You do represent hope and that can be heavy, right?

1146
01:39:34,640 --> 01:39:39,600
So it's like coaching around that and understanding what that is and also being proud of it.

1147
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:45,600
So coaching again is a huge part of what we do. HRV is a huge part of what we do.

1148
01:39:45,600 --> 01:39:52,160
Acupuncture, there's, she's also an herbalist and Chinese medicine is a huge part of what I do.

1149
01:39:52,160 --> 01:39:56,320
Nutrition is a huge part. I believe teaching people about their bodies,

1150
01:39:57,120 --> 01:40:00,320
especially in the trauma space is a huge part of what we do.

1151
01:40:00,320 --> 01:40:04,800
How is your nervous system responding? What exactly does that mean for you physically is a

1152
01:40:04,800 --> 01:40:12,240
huge part. We have yoga practitioners here. Breath practice is a huge part of what we do here.

1153
01:40:12,240 --> 01:40:17,680
Cranial sacral is a huge part of what we do here. But more than that, I think in the big picture,

1154
01:40:17,680 --> 01:40:24,160
we teach about why is there a sports medicine implication to traumatic exposure?

1155
01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:28,320
And then we coach all of our performance around that. And here's all of your rehab. Here's what's

1156
01:40:28,320 --> 01:40:32,960
happening to your body. Did you know that? I really want to come to a space where I'm empowering people

1157
01:40:34,320 --> 01:40:41,600
to be their best. It's funny when you talked about down regulation, I've had the CEO of a

1158
01:40:41,600 --> 01:40:46,240
company called Newcom probably a couple of years ago now, I don't know if you ever heard of it,

1159
01:40:46,240 --> 01:40:52,480
N-U-C-A-L-M, but it's incredible technology. You put it on in your headphones and you wear an eye

1160
01:40:52,480 --> 01:40:56,720
mask, but it's the only one that's actually got this technology patented. There's a lot of, you

1161
01:40:56,720 --> 01:41:02,960
know, audible soundtracks that you can listen on Spotify, but this actually has like a gigs worth

1162
01:41:02,960 --> 01:41:08,640
of data in each of these songs. And underneath the music, there's this kind of undulation

1163
01:41:08,640 --> 01:41:13,440
that literally stimulates your brain to go from sympathetic down to parasympathetic.

1164
01:41:13,440 --> 01:41:19,520
And there's a 20 minute one called Power Nap that I think is imperative for first responders before

1165
01:41:19,520 --> 01:41:24,080
they go home. And then you mentioned the HRV, that's such an incredible tool, even though a lot of

1166
01:41:24,080 --> 01:41:28,880
wearables, some of the things they claim are just bullshit. They can't tell you if you were in REM

1167
01:41:28,880 --> 01:41:34,720
sleep, for example, it's fucking lies. But what they're great at for is HRV. So now you have a

1168
01:41:34,720 --> 01:41:39,120
barometer, like is this a good day for me to do Murph? Or is this a better day for me to go for a

1169
01:41:39,120 --> 01:41:48,720
swim? Yep. Yeah, totally. It was cool. I got to practice this myself. I just went free diving

1170
01:41:48,720 --> 01:41:54,880
with my boyfriend and I made it down to 90 feet. It was really cool. Wow. Four days in, right? I

1171
01:41:54,880 --> 01:41:59,680
think I'm good at this. And everyone's like, what the hell? You had to do that your fourth day in.

1172
01:41:59,680 --> 01:42:08,320
And I'm like, you know what? I've been practicing shutting down kind of those anxiety receptors for

1173
01:42:08,320 --> 01:42:14,400
my whole life. And it was this really sweet experience. It's something called the breathe up

1174
01:42:14,400 --> 01:42:20,400
where you're waiting in the water before you hold your breath and you dive down. And your job is to

1175
01:42:20,400 --> 01:42:26,080
literally relax your entire body because it relaxes your eustachian tubes, like the whole system. And

1176
01:42:26,080 --> 01:42:31,680
I'm laying there and of course I'm like, I got to take my firefighters and do this because it was so

1177
01:42:31,680 --> 01:42:42,800
great. But every time I go now that first dive, it's like great feedback because I can feel myself

1178
01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:49,360
almost like vibrating in the water, not relaxed. And for me, because I'm competitive, I want to get

1179
01:42:49,360 --> 01:42:54,960
down and I want to have a good dive experience. And there's something towards, it's really a

1180
01:42:54,960 --> 01:43:02,720
breath practice and a relaxation practice. And most people breathe up top, they do shallow breathing

1181
01:43:02,720 --> 01:43:08,320
up in the chest and up in the throat. Most people do not get a full 360 degree breath in. And that,

1182
01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:12,320
I mean that, we can talk about spine stability, we can talk about lack of rotation, all of that's

1183
01:43:12,320 --> 01:43:19,600
from breath. But what's exciting for me is going, that directly impacts that trauma response and it

1184
01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:26,080
makes you a badass. If you can get 360 degrees of breath, your sports performance is through the

1185
01:43:26,080 --> 01:43:30,240
roof. And then all of a sudden you're sleeping better. And then all of a sudden your anxiety

1186
01:43:30,240 --> 01:43:35,760
goes down. And then all of a sudden you're not as angry. So it's really the marriage of the two that

1187
01:43:36,400 --> 01:43:42,400
is exciting for me to share. Well, I want to hit one more area and then go to some closing questions.

1188
01:43:42,400 --> 01:43:46,960
We've talked about post-injury, we've talked about the mental-physical connection.

1189
01:43:46,960 --> 01:43:51,680
What about kind of maintenance for the first responder? I mean, there's all the things out

1190
01:43:51,680 --> 01:43:58,960
there from foam rolling and lacrosse balls to ice baths. What are some of the common areas where you

1191
01:43:58,960 --> 01:44:05,920
find that we are tight and therefore kind of heading towards, whether just a lack of relaxation

1192
01:44:05,920 --> 01:44:09,680
or injury? And then what are some of the therapies that you find work on this population?

1193
01:44:10,560 --> 01:44:15,760
Yeah. So I'll tell you what I, my baby right now and what I wrote is called the Fire Service

1194
01:44:15,760 --> 01:44:21,680
Performance Assessment. And what I did, and it's like any sort of therapy assessment that you see,

1195
01:44:21,680 --> 01:44:26,800
I just, there wasn't one for fire. So I wrote it. We've got a series of eight exercises that are

1196
01:44:26,800 --> 01:44:37,680
based on how I asserted a firefighter needs to perform. Rotation's a huge one. And based on how

1197
01:44:37,680 --> 01:44:43,920
you perform, the exercises are scored. They double as homework. And underneath every exercise, I'm

1198
01:44:43,920 --> 01:44:48,560
like, here's your 4850 implication. Here's the injuries that I see. Things that are ignored a

1199
01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:53,280
lot in terms of the injury space for firefighters is I see a lot of wrist, hand, and fingers.

1200
01:44:53,280 --> 01:44:58,880
That's from dropping things. I slammed my hand, you know, I reached into a car. It's interesting

1201
01:44:58,880 --> 01:45:05,520
that that doesn't get talked about a lot because I see it a lot. Shoulder injuries are huge. In

1202
01:45:05,520 --> 01:45:12,560
terms of the kinesiology chain, I believe that most people are going to be single footed in terms

1203
01:45:12,560 --> 01:45:17,200
of when they step in and out of the engine, it creates a functional sort of a scoliosis. So

1204
01:45:17,200 --> 01:45:22,480
you're going to have one shoulder sort of in compression and one in decompression, the same

1205
01:45:22,480 --> 01:45:27,840
as the spine. And you'll see a lot of, you know, decomposition, if you will, in the joint itself.

1206
01:45:27,840 --> 01:45:33,280
So I see a lot of supraspinatus tears. A lot of those bucket handle tears happen pretty often.

1207
01:45:34,480 --> 01:45:40,560
Head and neck injuries, I see a lot at C1 and C2. That's going to be, you know, helmet injury.

1208
01:45:40,560 --> 01:45:45,280
Oftentimes people don't think about small repetitive hits. For instance, if you had to get in full gear

1209
01:45:45,280 --> 01:45:50,400
and then hop in the engine, even if you didn't have to go fire, usually you're getting small taps

1210
01:45:50,400 --> 01:45:56,000
repetitiously, which over time gives you some, you know, shortness and some forward head carriage.

1211
01:45:56,000 --> 01:46:03,520
So I see a lot of that, a lot of sciatica, a ton of sciatica actually, and that's again sort of a

1212
01:46:03,520 --> 01:46:12,880
decompressed versus compressed joint space in the SI. To me, this screen has to happen so that you

1213
01:46:12,880 --> 01:46:17,680
know, like, hey, this is what I'm at risk for. If somebody, for instance, experiences pain in a

1214
01:46:17,680 --> 01:46:22,560
particular area, I'm like, well, here's the service implication. Here's why you need to be able to do

1215
01:46:22,560 --> 01:46:29,120
this. Repeatedly do this until you do it well, unless there's pain. If there's pain, we'll address

1216
01:46:29,120 --> 01:46:36,480
it. In terms of the primary exercise that I think is huge, 360 degree breath is a big deal. So are

1217
01:46:36,480 --> 01:46:41,680
you getting breath all the way into your belly, all the way into your lumbar spine? For a female, if

1218
01:46:41,680 --> 01:46:46,400
you look at your pelvic health, that's going to give you a really good picture of how your breath

1219
01:46:46,400 --> 01:46:50,000
pattern is going. So if you're struggling with something like incontinence, you see it in men

1220
01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:55,920
too, but primarily in women, chances are your lumbar spine is pretty unstable. The head will

1221
01:46:55,920 --> 01:47:02,960
usually mirror that. So breath for men and women is huge. I rotation all day long. So thoracic

1222
01:47:02,960 --> 01:47:09,600
rotation, unless that upper back is a really, really big deal. And I say, you know, like even simply

1223
01:47:09,600 --> 01:47:17,040
go into upper back rotation in both directions and figure out where you're tight and loosen the screw.

1224
01:47:17,040 --> 01:47:23,520
That's what I tell you. You know, so there's ways I think you can do that the best. Usually I don't

1225
01:47:23,520 --> 01:47:27,520
like to have to have a lot of equipment because I want people to be able to use their bodies in the

1226
01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:33,360
wall. So there's a lot of really basic exercises that I could say are the best. But if I was going

1227
01:47:33,360 --> 01:47:40,240
to pick one, it's that thoracic rotation is huge. It'll travel down the chain. It opens up, right,

1228
01:47:40,240 --> 01:47:45,840
all of this tightness in the upper body. And then secondarily, if you can do it in a way that's

1229
01:47:45,840 --> 01:47:50,880
going to open your hips up, that's a big deal. So thoracic rotation with like a psoas opener would

1230
01:47:50,880 --> 01:47:57,840
be my favorite one. Hips get really tight, as you know, and bilaterally when hips get tight and that

1231
01:47:57,840 --> 01:48:02,880
psoas gets tight, it messes with that breath pattern, it gets really short and hard to move.

1232
01:48:02,880 --> 01:48:08,560
So if you have a body that can healthily and strongly rotate as a firefighter, you're doing

1233
01:48:08,560 --> 01:48:11,520
pretty good. You're doing pretty good. Yeah,

1234
01:48:11,520 --> 01:48:14,320
Be Shakira. That's what I always say.

1235
01:48:14,320 --> 01:48:24,560
I have quoted Beyonce a lot. I'm like, give me some Beyonce and everyone cracks up. They're like,

1236
01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:31,200
what did you just say to that firefighter? It's not wrong. Mobility, it's interesting because I

1237
01:48:31,200 --> 01:48:36,240
don't want to worship mobility. You also have to be stable. So, you know, a lot of times I hear

1238
01:48:36,240 --> 01:48:43,120
this sort of over glorification of mobility. Yes, you need to be mobile. But there's a lot of

1239
01:48:43,120 --> 01:48:48,960
yogis that can't stand on one foot. You know, so it's like, there's really have to have this

1240
01:48:48,960 --> 01:48:54,400
clean line between, we've heard this a million times, stability and mobility. But can you do

1241
01:48:54,400 --> 01:49:00,640
that under load? So something I love to do with a firefighter is can I have two different weights of

1242
01:49:00,640 --> 01:49:06,800
kettlebell and carry them over my head? Right? And then I'll say, hey, hey, look at me. And can you

1243
01:49:06,800 --> 01:49:12,240
look over your shoulder without losing your body? And oftentimes it's no, it's a hard exercise to do,

1244
01:49:12,240 --> 01:49:18,560
but I also don't believe in babying a first responder. I'm like, dude, your, your job is,

1245
01:49:18,560 --> 01:49:24,000
is badass. You need to be sweat. This shouldn't be comfortable. I am not committed to your comfort.

1246
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:29,840
I'm committed to you winning. And I don't want to coddle people because their job is hard. I'm like,

1247
01:49:29,840 --> 01:49:35,920
I want it to be hard so that when you're confronted, you know, with that call, when you

1248
01:49:35,920 --> 01:49:41,520
confronted with that fire, you are certain that you're going to dominate and you're not concerned

1249
01:49:41,520 --> 01:49:47,440
is my body going to make this? Because the minute you get concerned that is my body going to perform,

1250
01:49:47,440 --> 01:49:52,480
now you're a nervous wreck. And guess what? It's not. You just shut your own shit down.

1251
01:49:52,480 --> 01:49:58,640
So if I can coach you in a way where I have partnered with you to the brink of your like peak

1252
01:49:58,640 --> 01:50:04,320
performance and that car comes along and that call comes along and that fire comes along and you're

1253
01:50:04,320 --> 01:50:10,560
like, I know I can do this. That's where we stop injuries, you know? And then you get to pick up

1254
01:50:10,560 --> 01:50:15,360
the phone and say, you know, Sonya or somebody at the six, I just, I just scraped a kid off the

1255
01:50:15,360 --> 01:50:21,520
ground. And I'm like, you come right now. I got you. There's that community piece where it's,

1256
01:50:21,520 --> 01:50:26,560
it's holistic. And I, you know, I'm sick of pussy footing around. I know it's a terrible word,

1257
01:50:26,560 --> 01:50:35,680
but I'm like, I, you don't need to do only yoga. You need to be a strong badass so you can be

1258
01:50:35,680 --> 01:50:41,600
healthy and fulfilled when you walk out of that station. 100%. I've actually switched my

1259
01:50:41,600 --> 01:50:47,840
programming for about a year, just over a year ago now to a Wolf Brigade. And that's a lot of

1260
01:50:47,840 --> 01:50:52,960
Macy's single alarm, kale bells. And it's a, I did CrossFit for years and loved it. And it served me

1261
01:50:52,960 --> 01:50:58,080
well as a firefighter, but there were imbalances that just got worse and worse. And it just wasn't

1262
01:50:58,080 --> 01:51:02,160
helping the way, you know, all the programming that I followed, but what's been beautiful about

1263
01:51:02,160 --> 01:51:05,840
this is like you said, it's rotational. It's putting my shoulders back into positions they need

1264
01:51:05,840 --> 01:51:10,880
to be. I'm doing, you know, um, hinging with the mace on my back. So it's keeping that back straight

1265
01:51:10,880 --> 01:51:15,680
and it's just, it's different. It's just different. And I think what's nice about that is cause you

1266
01:51:15,680 --> 01:51:20,480
don't have that red line element that CrossFit does so often, which is important for us physically

1267
01:51:20,480 --> 01:51:25,760
and mentally. It takes away some of the fear to simply move, you know, and I loved CrossFit with

1268
01:51:25,760 --> 01:51:30,400
the broke climbs and the handstands because it was play as well. But sometimes when you're in the

1269
01:51:30,400 --> 01:51:36,240
grinder and your HRV is shit and you went in, you know, to a, a wad that leaves you puking and,

1270
01:51:36,240 --> 01:51:41,680
you know, outside that might, that's actually not the best fit. And for someone who has just been

1271
01:51:41,680 --> 01:51:46,000
through something horrible, maybe just swinging like mace, you know, and doing some of the other

1272
01:51:46,000 --> 01:51:49,840
things that you're going to put them through is what's going to help flush that out a little bit.

1273
01:51:51,760 --> 01:51:56,400
Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. And you know, it's like to bring it full circle in terms of the,

1274
01:51:56,400 --> 01:52:01,360
the pro athlete. It's like most of their time is spent in the gym. It's not at the game.

1275
01:52:02,880 --> 01:52:06,960
It's like their whole lifestyle is about their fitness and about their mental health. I mean,

1276
01:52:06,960 --> 01:52:11,040
these people have coaches and therapists, they have all, all of that. And so I'm like, you,

1277
01:52:12,080 --> 01:52:16,320
what I'm saying is not new science. It's not odd. You want peak performance, then make your life

1278
01:52:16,320 --> 01:52:22,640
about performing. It's, it's not, it's not like anything new. The amount of experience I have is

1279
01:52:22,640 --> 01:52:28,960
different, but what I'm preaching is, is not new. We've been doing it for, for pro athletes for

1280
01:52:28,960 --> 01:52:35,600
years. It's, it's not, it's not like groundbreaking to spend your life taking care of your body.

1281
01:52:35,600 --> 01:52:40,640
Should you have a high performance demand? And that's again, like where I just go like, man,

1282
01:52:40,640 --> 01:52:43,360
are you kidding me? Why, why am I explaining this right now? This is silly.

1283
01:52:44,400 --> 01:52:49,040
Well, I think the environment too, I mean, yeah, it's up to us to have ownership and understand

1284
01:52:49,040 --> 01:52:53,280
that lives depend on us and train accordingly, but you also need that environment for us to

1285
01:52:53,280 --> 01:52:58,640
rest, recover and thrive. Now that's the big missing piece. You know, if you look at the football

1286
01:52:58,640 --> 01:53:03,760
locker room or, you know, UFC fire, it takes a lot of damage. There's a huge rest and recovery

1287
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:09,120
element. The sleep is so important. So both of us, all of us, this is a problem with the fire

1288
01:53:09,120 --> 01:53:13,120
service. You know, we didn't, we did a shitty job of telling people what we do. We walk around

1289
01:53:13,120 --> 01:53:17,440
bragging about how our shifts are amazing when they're not. It was a complete fallacy that we,

1290
01:53:17,440 --> 01:53:22,720
even we believe. So now we've got to reprogram our ownership of the job. And then we've also got to

1291
01:53:22,720 --> 01:53:28,800
fight for an environment of rest and recovery that allows us to perform the same way as a Formula

1292
01:53:28,800 --> 01:53:35,600
One driver or a baseball player. Yeah. I think that it's human to

1293
01:53:38,080 --> 01:53:44,640
share about the fantasy of your life versus the reality, you know? And I think that in many ways,

1294
01:53:44,640 --> 01:53:53,440
with many different careers, we sort of capture the fantasy of what could be instead of adopting

1295
01:53:53,440 --> 01:54:00,080
the humanity of what is. And I think that that's made the quote, cape of the firefighter really

1296
01:54:00,080 --> 01:54:06,640
heavy. It's like, you know, proving the fantasy is much harder than inviting other people into

1297
01:54:06,640 --> 01:54:13,600
your humanity. And the disappointing part about that is that there's where you lose the possibility

1298
01:54:13,600 --> 01:54:22,640
for intimacy and community, because many people are craving permission to be human. And if we can

1299
01:54:22,640 --> 01:54:31,760
do that, if we can ask a city and ask a county and ask management to allow their first responders

1300
01:54:31,760 --> 01:54:38,400
to be human, then we'll have a different department. But right now, like the city wants to perpetuate

1301
01:54:38,400 --> 01:54:42,240
the fantasy too, right? The county wants to perpetuate the fantasy. The country wants to

1302
01:54:42,240 --> 01:54:48,800
perpetuate the fantasy. Because for some reason, there's this fear of, you know, what happens when

1303
01:54:48,800 --> 01:54:55,680
we articulate the brokenness of the fire service. And in my mind, what happens is healing, because

1304
01:54:55,680 --> 01:55:02,880
everybody again gets to be human. But maybe the calendars will all have a bunch of guys with torn

1305
01:55:02,880 --> 01:55:12,400
rotator cuffs and a belly. You know, and like, for me, though, like, I'm like, that's my dad,

1306
01:55:12,400 --> 01:55:18,960
that's my brother, like that body, that person, that that woman that made it all the way to be

1307
01:55:18,960 --> 01:55:24,960
in management. That's the person that like you can relate to, right? That's the person that's

1308
01:55:24,960 --> 01:55:29,680
going to be like, Hey, I need to come sit on your couch. And, and then we just stop this crash,

1309
01:55:29,680 --> 01:55:35,280
you know, our whole country is really backwards, in terms of how we expect people to perform. And

1310
01:55:35,280 --> 01:55:40,800
unfortunately, because there's, you know, badge wearing people that are doing this high performance

1311
01:55:40,800 --> 01:55:47,600
work, it's like you got the worst of it. And, and all I know is in my own experience, every time I'm

1312
01:55:47,600 --> 01:55:54,560
willing to stand in my brokenness, I have immense amount of healing from the community that I need,

1313
01:55:54,560 --> 01:56:00,720
because I admitted that I needed it. And, like, all of a sudden, all the walls come down, right?

1314
01:56:00,720 --> 01:56:07,280
It's like, okay, you know, it's okay. And again, it's like that that big fear picture, James, where

1315
01:56:07,280 --> 01:56:13,120
it's like, are you going to let this dictate your life or not? And, you know, fantasy doesn't heal

1316
01:56:13,120 --> 01:56:19,280
fear. Amen to that. That's beautiful. Well, I want to go to some closing questions that could

1317
01:56:19,280 --> 01:56:24,480
be mindful of your time. The first one I like to ask, is there a book or are there books that you

1318
01:56:24,480 --> 01:56:28,640
love to recommend? It can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated.

1319
01:56:29,840 --> 01:56:35,520
Yeah, I want to make sure I get this name right, because I always shorten it.

1320
01:56:40,000 --> 01:56:48,480
So my mentor of probably like 30 years, her name is Jean Marie Job,

1321
01:56:48,480 --> 01:56:56,000
Jean Marie Jobs. She wrote a book called The Art of Feeding Heroes, Leading from the Inside Out.

1322
01:56:56,560 --> 01:57:04,320
She talks about like utilizing neuroscience and marrying that into leadership. And it's really

1323
01:57:04,320 --> 01:57:10,240
like flushes out those like blind spots I was talking about. And if you read it, you'll probably

1324
01:57:10,240 --> 01:57:19,520
likely hear her in my voice and how I speak. She's an absolute brilliant thinker and speaker.

1325
01:57:19,520 --> 01:57:26,960
She's one of our coaches here now. She's a globally renowned speaker and coach, and she gives

1326
01:57:26,960 --> 01:57:30,720
her time to our responders here. This would be a person James read, be like, you should let me

1327
01:57:30,720 --> 01:57:39,120
hook you up. She's just a brilliant leader and somebody that I admire greatly. But I've read

1328
01:57:39,120 --> 01:57:45,120
that many times. Well, one of my questions is suggesting a guess. So let's assume it is answered.

1329
01:57:45,120 --> 01:57:52,160
So yeah, let's make it happen. Yeah. Yeah. And we didn't even talk about my whole team. I have

1330
01:57:52,160 --> 01:57:58,560
this whole like incredible tech team right now and business partner that I'm working with. But

1331
01:57:58,560 --> 01:58:05,920
yeah, in terms of like brilliant people, Jean Marie Jobs is definitely, she's definitely my hero for

1332
01:58:05,920 --> 01:58:11,280
sure. Beautiful. Well, that was books. What about documentary and films? Any of those that you love?

1333
01:58:11,280 --> 01:58:18,160
Oh my gosh, I just cry. So I honestly as a young woman, my favorite documentary is the story of

1334
01:58:18,160 --> 01:58:27,200
Diana Nyad. So she's a speaker now. And she's amazing. So she swam from the Bahamas to Florida.

1335
01:58:27,200 --> 01:58:34,080
And she was not young. And so there's a there's a documentary with her and it's a

1336
01:58:34,080 --> 01:58:38,560
there's a documentary with her and it shows her like getting stung by box fish and just like,

1337
01:58:39,760 --> 01:58:46,080
I think it took her six or seven times. And I just cry any documentary like that where people are

1338
01:58:47,200 --> 01:58:54,480
overcoming, you know, anything I, I just have to watch 800,000 times. I just watched Hillbilly

1339
01:58:54,480 --> 01:59:04,800
Elegy too, which is JD Vance's story. He's the vice president, vice presidential candidate from

1340
01:59:04,800 --> 01:59:11,040
Donald Trump. I knew who he was before because I was familiar with the film and then I just re-watched

1341
01:59:11,040 --> 01:59:17,760
it. And I have no I'm not making any political statement here, but I am saying that his story

1342
01:59:17,760 --> 01:59:26,800
is just incredible. So he comes from generations of drug addicts from Appalachia and it's,

1343
01:59:26,800 --> 01:59:30,720
it's intense to watch. It's not an easy watch, especially because I can relate with some of it.

1344
01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:34,800
But his sort of coming up story was just amazing.

1345
01:59:35,360 --> 01:59:37,040
That's the man that he chose for VP?

1346
01:59:38,560 --> 01:59:45,600
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. He was currently speaking. But in terms of like, for me, in terms of a

1347
01:59:45,600 --> 01:59:50,640
Republican candidate, he's one of the most well-spoken, actually intelligent politicians

1348
01:59:50,640 --> 01:59:57,760
that I've heard in a long time. We need someone like that. Oh my God. Yeah. He's, he's, he's just

1349
01:59:57,760 --> 02:00:03,280
brilliant. And his story, if I was going to choose what it meant to be American, he has an incredible

1350
02:00:03,280 --> 02:00:12,640
story. And I really admire people that just come up from, from nothing. So I just re-watched it.

1351
02:00:12,640 --> 02:00:16,560
I didn't realize quite how intense it was. He had his mom there. He's been clean for 10 years

1352
02:00:18,000 --> 02:00:22,000
at the committee he was speaking on, which I certainly didn't watch all of that, but I wanted to

1353
02:00:22,880 --> 02:00:30,720
see that dynamic. And it was, it was pretty real, which I appreciate. Again, like I'm pushing up

1354
02:00:30,720 --> 02:00:34,960
against that fantasy. Okay. But what actually happened? And in the story of like Diana and I

1355
02:00:34,960 --> 02:00:40,480
added, she just gets her ass handed to her over and over and over and over. And I'm like, all right,

1356
02:00:40,480 --> 02:00:46,000
I can do this. I got this. Yeah. My friend, Jean Marie just beat breast cancer like a year and a

1357
02:00:46,000 --> 02:00:51,280
half ago. Her and my sister actually both almost passed away in the last couple of years at the

1358
02:00:51,280 --> 02:00:59,200
same time. And Jean, Jean with, while she was in cancer treatment was still coaching leadership

1359
02:00:59,200 --> 02:01:05,200
seminars, like in the middle of it and talking about it. She's an incredible person. Yeah. I,

1360
02:01:05,200 --> 02:01:11,760
I like to surround myself with people that against all odds, I call them the, the, the black sheep

1361
02:01:11,760 --> 02:01:18,960
world changers where, you know, we don't, we're not quite, quite the perfect package. And yet here we

1362
02:01:18,960 --> 02:01:24,960
are. I think, I think we're the people that are going to change the world. That's like, cause you

1363
02:01:24,960 --> 02:01:32,080
have to have that courage not to lean into the bullshit, you know, you got to just do it anyways

1364
02:01:32,080 --> 02:01:37,520
and not look pretty. And I think the more that we, that we speak and the more that we're human,

1365
02:01:38,320 --> 02:01:42,400
we'll let other people do the same thing. Absolutely. Yeah. I love that too. And the

1366
02:01:42,400 --> 02:01:47,920
disruptors, you know, you're not doing it mindlessly to just cause trouble. You're just,

1367
02:01:47,920 --> 02:01:52,080
you know, holding a mirror up to people. I think that's what Southpaw says so well. You're holding

1368
02:01:52,080 --> 02:01:56,400
a mirror up to what's wrong with the world and be like, look, we can change it. Here's, let me also

1369
02:01:56,400 --> 02:02:01,840
show you the solution. This is what this podcast is all about. Yeah. Yeah. It's so Brian Muse,

1370
02:02:01,840 --> 02:02:06,400
someone put his name in here really quick. So Brian Muse is my new business partner. So this,

1371
02:02:06,400 --> 02:02:12,160
this six went through this huge transition and he comes from a world that I don't come from. So big,

1372
02:02:12,160 --> 02:02:20,960
big tech people. And he had this radical experience with coaching where he like had his life changed

1373
02:02:20,960 --> 02:02:25,200
via coaching, went through some really intense trauma with business partners and people that

1374
02:02:25,200 --> 02:02:31,200
were close to him and then realized he had access at an executive level to coaching that, that

1375
02:02:31,200 --> 02:02:35,360
people would never have access to and that we didn't need pharma. Right. He's like, wait,

1376
02:02:35,920 --> 02:02:41,440
you don't need all this stuff. You don't have to pay a therapist a thousand dollars an hour. Right.

1377
02:02:41,440 --> 02:02:45,840
And it radically changed his life. And so in terms of the coaching protocol that we're writing for

1378
02:02:45,840 --> 02:02:50,720
our tech right now, he's, he's lead in that. It's the first time I've partnered with anybody

1379
02:02:50,720 --> 02:02:55,360
and to speak to an executive of his level, they're like these big, you know, big deals,

1380
02:02:55,360 --> 02:02:59,120
big Amazon and Microsoft and Silicon Valley guys. It's hilarious. Cause I'm in there.

1381
02:02:59,120 --> 02:03:05,760
Ruh, ruh, ruh, ruh. But his, his conviction about getting behavioral health to

1382
02:03:07,760 --> 02:03:13,200
people that need it without having to wade through all of the workers cop nonsense and

1383
02:03:13,200 --> 02:03:21,120
without all the VA nonsense is just admirable. And I like, yeah, let's, you know, business wise,

1384
02:03:21,120 --> 02:03:26,080
let's get married. And it was, I, I have partnered myself with people that people told me I was crazy

1385
02:03:26,080 --> 02:03:31,920
about many times. And it's been really great. So that, that's the journey we're on now. Cause

1386
02:03:31,920 --> 02:03:37,680
I'm like, again, let's, let's get this, let's get this out to our people. It's like, I disruptors

1387
02:03:37,680 --> 02:03:45,600
usually aren't popular, you know, okay, let's do it. Yeah, exactly. And the thing is someone's just

1388
02:03:45,600 --> 02:03:49,440
got to say things that are, you know, are gonna ruffle feathers. You're not doing it to ruffle

1389
02:03:49,440 --> 02:03:54,720
feathers, but every time I point out that there's 330 million people in this country,

1390
02:03:54,720 --> 02:03:59,280
and I've never heard anyone recommend a leadership book from Donald Trump or Joe Biden.

1391
02:03:59,840 --> 02:04:05,440
There's a problem there. But when they're shackled to again, that facade, as we talked about before,

1392
02:04:06,480 --> 02:04:11,440
then yeah, when you, you, you really kick the beehive, but it needs to be kicked, you know,

1393
02:04:11,440 --> 02:04:16,400
when, when there's just this repetitive issue going on over and over again, and whether it's

1394
02:04:16,400 --> 02:04:21,920
the presidency or whether it's a fire chief or a union leader of whatever it is, if you've been

1395
02:04:21,920 --> 02:04:26,560
doing the same thing over and over again, and it's just not fucking working, then it's an

1396
02:04:26,560 --> 02:04:34,480
uncomfortable truth, but something has to change. It's just, right. Well, fighting for a pretend

1397
02:04:34,480 --> 02:04:42,400
life always causes tension with authenticity. So, I mean, for me, like the disruption is to, is to,

1398
02:04:42,400 --> 02:04:48,320
is to pull those two things apart. It's like, well, we want that tension, because again,

1399
02:04:48,320 --> 02:04:53,600
we want the closeness and we want the change, but that's not popular either. It's, it's interesting

1400
02:04:53,600 --> 02:04:59,600
to live in a time where we would rather convince everybody that our life is Disneyland,

1401
02:05:00,320 --> 02:05:08,400
than have sustenance and a life worth value. And I think that people that choose the job

1402
02:05:08,400 --> 02:05:15,440
of a firefighter, uh, innately want a life of value. That's a very service, you know, oriented

1403
02:05:15,440 --> 02:05:24,400
choice to do every single day. And I want to give those people permission to not pretend.

1404
02:05:25,760 --> 02:05:29,920
Absolutely. Well, one more question before we make sure everyone knows where to find the six

1405
02:05:29,920 --> 02:05:37,680
and you online. What do you do to decompress? Um, diving has been a huge thing. This is, this is new.

1406
02:05:37,680 --> 02:05:43,440
It's, it's really great. Um, I'm loving it a lot. I really want to go spearfishing too, but that

1407
02:05:43,440 --> 02:05:50,240
breathe up, um, this has been one of the first times where I can shut off and get myself to a

1408
02:05:50,240 --> 02:05:56,080
space mentally, uh, that makes me experience safety. So that's been a really powerful thing for me.

1409
02:05:56,720 --> 02:06:04,080
Um, I also write quite a bit. I do sing and write all the time, but writing music is a big part of

1410
02:06:04,080 --> 02:06:11,280
my life. Um, and like first and foremost, I am utterly obsessed with my children. I have three

1411
02:06:11,280 --> 02:06:16,400
kids. I just, um, got to spend some time with them over the weekend and took them out. And I,

1412
02:06:17,840 --> 02:06:22,960
many people are surprised when I, when they go to my home and I'm Betty Crocker and I'm a mom,

1413
02:06:22,960 --> 02:06:26,720
but you know, I'll say this, um, about decompressing. And I think this is really

1414
02:06:26,720 --> 02:06:35,840
important as a female, uh, executive. I, um, do not subscribe to the fact that I don't need softness

1415
02:06:35,840 --> 02:06:42,800
and femininity in my life. It is mentally and spiritually really very challenging and exhausting,

1416
02:06:42,800 --> 02:06:49,840
um, for me to be in a male dominated space and meet that I absolutely can. And I'm really good at it.

1417
02:06:49,840 --> 02:06:55,760
But, uh, when I am able, like this is, I'm just going to say this because it's true.

1418
02:06:56,320 --> 02:07:02,560
I will have a 10 or 12 hour work day. And the first thing I want to do is come home and cook

1419
02:07:02,560 --> 02:07:09,440
my boyfriend dinner or take my kids out. And is it more work? Yes. But what it does is it allows me

1420
02:07:09,440 --> 02:07:16,720
to enter into a space where I just feel soft and I get to be held, I get to hold, and I get to serve

1421
02:07:16,720 --> 02:07:22,400
in a capacity where I'm creating community. Um, and that is the best feeling in the whole world.

1422
02:07:22,400 --> 02:07:27,040
And, um, it's not for everybody because it's, it's again, like, you know, when I was talking about

1423
02:07:27,040 --> 02:07:33,680
switching things on and off, I've had to practice doing that. But the more that I engage in serving

1424
02:07:33,680 --> 02:07:38,480
my family, um, and honestly, one of the best things about my relationship now is I feel like

1425
02:07:38,480 --> 02:07:44,240
this total exhale, uh, when I get to cook dinner, it's like, and he's like, what? And I'm like, let

1426
02:07:44,240 --> 02:07:50,640
me feed you. So yeah, I grew up very Southern like that. So, I mean, any, any time I get to

1427
02:07:50,640 --> 02:07:59,760
experience that community of family, it's really, really priceless to me. And, um, I love the gift

1428
02:07:59,760 --> 02:08:03,680
of men and women. And I love when I get to swim in that I don't do that at work because when my

1429
02:08:03,680 --> 02:08:09,760
guys come in, I'm not, my girl hats not on. I'm like, you know, we, we go in and we're all in,

1430
02:08:09,760 --> 02:08:15,200
they know I'm a girl, but it's like, I don't have that energy. So when I get to be in my feminine,

1431
02:08:15,200 --> 02:08:19,440
it's like the fucking best feeling. And this wasn't a cool thing to say. I'm from the boss

1432
02:08:19,440 --> 02:08:25,200
bitch era, right? Like I'm, I'm supposed to do everything the same. And I'm like, no, no. But

1433
02:08:25,200 --> 02:08:29,840
what I do get to do is have people like James next to me and do it together in the fullness of who

1434
02:08:29,840 --> 02:08:35,040
we are. So, I mean, that's a hugely relaxing part of me. And I know I'm not supposed to publicly say

1435
02:08:35,040 --> 02:08:40,560
that, but it's true. I love being a mom. I love being a nurturer. Uh, diving has been great. I do

1436
02:08:40,560 --> 02:08:44,640
practice Jiu-Jitsu. I've been doing a little bit more of that and I love the violence of that.

1437
02:08:44,640 --> 02:08:47,920
Yeah. Yeah.

1438
02:08:47,920 --> 02:08:53,040
Brilliant. Yeah. I love Jiu-Jitsu too. And it's, it's interesting when you're talking about,

1439
02:08:53,040 --> 02:08:56,480
you know, having the masculine energy at work and then the feminine energy at home.

1440
02:08:57,200 --> 02:09:01,600
Um, it's something that I've talked about with, with us in uniform, you know, a lot of my

1441
02:09:01,600 --> 02:09:07,040
generation, I'm 50 now we're raised with the Schwarzenegger Rambo boys don't cry, rub some

1442
02:09:07,040 --> 02:09:12,960
dirt in it. And they forget the fact that it was their feminine side, the soft, kind, compassionate

1443
02:09:12,960 --> 02:09:17,120
element that led them into service usually, you know, and then you get in and you're a few years

1444
02:09:17,120 --> 02:09:22,000
in and you're beat down with seed deprivation and maybe your organization isn't quite as supportive

1445
02:09:22,000 --> 02:09:28,400
as you originally thought. And now you become this white circle. I am a firefighter. I am a Marine.

1446
02:09:28,400 --> 02:09:32,400
And they forget the other side and they get transitioned out, whatever that looks like,

1447
02:09:32,400 --> 02:09:38,480
retirement or injury. And some of them find themselves as this white circle on their own

1448
02:09:38,480 --> 02:09:43,280
and they're not able to give themselves that feminine element, that outlet, that compassion

1449
02:09:43,280 --> 02:09:49,600
and empathy. So I think from either gender, it's such an important conversation to just identify

1450
02:09:49,600 --> 02:09:54,560
that you were, and you always will be the yin and the yang. And if you, if you're not able to tap

1451
02:09:54,560 --> 02:09:59,040
into one or the other, if you're just a crying mess all day, every day, then you need to tap

1452
02:09:59,040 --> 02:10:03,120
into your masculinity. But more often than not, the people listening, it's the opposite. And you

1453
02:10:03,120 --> 02:10:09,920
need to give yourself that same forgiveness and compassion that you give others. Yeah, 100%. And

1454
02:10:09,920 --> 02:10:18,880
it's not, I mean, I have very dear people to me and members of my family that identify all different

1455
02:10:18,880 --> 02:10:26,160
ways. And I think that like globally, what's true is what I keep saying. It's like, get clear about

1456
02:10:26,160 --> 02:10:33,440
who you are and get clear about who you really are. And I do think you have to choose. It's like the,

1457
02:10:34,320 --> 02:10:38,800
if you don't choose, then you're, then you're nobody, right? It's like, you got to, you got to

1458
02:10:38,800 --> 02:10:44,320
pick like what's happening and get committed. And I think there's where intimacy happens, you know,

1459
02:10:44,320 --> 02:10:50,400
where there's no commitment, how can you possibly grow? Like courage only comes from commitment.

1460
02:10:50,400 --> 02:10:55,040
It doesn't come from anywhere else. And I do tell people that all the time too. You cannot possibly

1461
02:10:55,040 --> 02:11:00,560
be brave if you're not sure. I don't buy that, you know, all these people that claim courage and

1462
02:11:00,560 --> 02:11:04,560
bravery because they went on a march or because they, you know, because I said something on the

1463
02:11:04,560 --> 02:11:09,680
internet, I'm like, you don't even know who you are. That, that, that doesn't land. That's not

1464
02:11:09,680 --> 02:11:16,720
going to stick. You just, you know, you just threw slime out a window. Absolutely. Well, I'm sure

1465
02:11:16,720 --> 02:11:21,360
people listening would love to learn more about you and the six. So where are the best places to

1466
02:11:21,360 --> 02:11:29,120
find the six online? And then what about yourself as far as social media? Yeah. So the right now,

1467
02:11:29,680 --> 02:11:34,800
we are in the middle of building a brand new website. It should be out in a couple of weeks,

1468
02:11:34,800 --> 02:11:43,040
but what you can't, where you can't find us like today is the T H E S I X of the six and then the

1469
02:11:43,040 --> 02:11:48,320
full word foundation.com. And what will the new site be called? Cause by the time this goes out,

1470
02:11:48,320 --> 02:11:56,400
that might be live. Yeah. Right now, probably just the six. But I would love to be reached personally

1471
02:11:56,400 --> 02:12:05,280
too, if anybody needs help or has a question. So my personal one is Sonya S O N Y A J McVay,

1472
02:12:05,280 --> 02:12:11,600
M C V A Y. And there's probably the most up to date. I definitely post about the shop a lot. I

1473
02:12:11,600 --> 02:12:18,880
call it the shop a lot. And then, you know, we'll, we will likely sort of reintegrate, reintegrate,

1474
02:12:18,880 --> 02:12:25,360
excuse me, you know, Instagrams and, and all that, as well as when the website comes up. So I'm really

1475
02:12:25,360 --> 02:12:29,920
excited where the, our app will come out and that's just called the six at the same time that

1476
02:12:30,640 --> 02:12:36,480
the websites will come out and we'll have all of that waitlisted and, and up in the next couple

1477
02:12:36,480 --> 02:12:42,800
months. It's, it's pretty, I'm pretty excited. Amazing. Well, Sonya, I want to thank you so much.

1478
02:12:42,800 --> 02:12:48,480
We've gone all over the place from, you know, faith and addiction through the laboral tears

1479
02:12:48,480 --> 02:12:52,720
and everything in between. But, uh, I want to thank you so, so much for being so generous with

1480
02:12:52,720 --> 02:13:08,080
your time today and coming on the behind the shield podcast. Yeah. Thank you for having me, James.