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Now to learn more about Thorn, go to episode 323 of the Behind the Shield podcast with

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Joel Titoro and Wes Barnett.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome back

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onto the show the head orthopedic surgeon for the CrossFit Games and lifelong athlete Dr.

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Sean Rocket.

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Now in this second conversation, we discuss a host of topics from the pandemic's impact

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on the nation's gyms, the evolution of CrossFit, workman's comp, rehabbing injuries in the

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first responder professions, saving Emily Rolf's arm, firefighter cancer and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and

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leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of well over 950 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories.

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So I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

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So that being said, I welcome back onto the show Dr. Sean Rocket.

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Enjoy.

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Well Sean, I want to start by saying thank you so much for coming back onto the Behind

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the Shield podcast.

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The last episode we did was February 2022 and that was episode 571.

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So obviously it's been almost two and a half years since we talked.

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Love it.

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Love it.

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Happy to.

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Thanks for having me.

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That's a lot of stuff's happened in two years.

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So well first, when we spoke, the world was kind of coming out of the pandemic.

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Not loading the question at all from a takeaway perspective of lessons learned and or the

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ripple effect of those couple of years.

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What has been your perspective?

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Lessons learned.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I think back to when we were, you know, just not going outside and not doing

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anything and washing groceries and, you know, just the end schools shutting down and all

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that.

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And you look back and you're just like, did we really go through that?

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Did that really just happen?

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You know, and there's always the retrospective scope.

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But I remember, you know, there was fear, there was uncertainty and we didn't know which

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way it was going to go.

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And I think, you know, through time, we've been able to see, you know, what we did right

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and what we did wrong.

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What about the health message?

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One of the things that infuriated me the whole time was the truth.

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Yeah, that was driving me crazy.

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If you exercise, it's good.

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And, you know, like having certain things open and certain things shut down, that was

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phenomenal.

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Yeah.

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Well, I feel like we missed a beautiful opportunity of a captive audience, like the fairground,

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the merry-go-round stop for a second.

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And we could have really made, you know, bolstered PE programs and sent that fitness message,

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given subsidies to local farmers to create healthy, you know, organic food, take the

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vending machines out of schools.

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Again, if you were king for a day, what should have happened that way?

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Because what we're seeing is obesity is still getting worse, mental health is still getting

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worse, and we saw how it was handled.

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If you could do it again and you were now the health guru, what advice would you give

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to people?

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Yeah, I mean, it's the same advice I give now, you know, diet, exercise.

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You know, yeah, the fact that we didn't sort of just drive this home, that it was, you

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know, people who are affected were being disproportionately affected.

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You know, there's something we can do to change it.

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And the fact that, you know, there's still the food, you know, pyramid and things like

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that and, you know, not being able to, you know, just address the point that, you know,

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we can get our kids healthier, happier, you know, be careful what they eat, watch what

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they eat, you know, just the, like, it was always, it was always, it wasn't, it never

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came full front to the nightly news.

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It was always, you know, what's the presidential meeting and what's the governor meeting and

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what's the, it was always just sort of in the background.

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Yeah, I agree.

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It should have, it should have come full, full, full blown steam ahead, you know, to

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everybody's attention.

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Yeah.

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What I saw in our gym specifically, I want to say our, where I train and coach, but it's

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not my gym, CrossFit Iron Legion in Ocala, is there were a lot of people that came every

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week because they came every week.

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And so, you know, that momentum carried on, you know, the, the, the second law of motion

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or whatever it is.

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And when this was shut down, what I was seeing is many, many gym owners, businesses failing

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and also a lot of people that had made that courageous step to start exercising.

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The wind was now taken out the sails and they never came back.

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What did you see about those two dynamics in your area?

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Yeah.

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I saw a lot of yoga, a lot of people out doing outdoor yoga.

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We were doing outdoor yoga.

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We kept our gym going because we were outside.

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We did outside workouts.

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You know, when it was inside, you know, there were curtains and there were cubicles that

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you could not step out of your cubicles and other gyms.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It was, it, you know, people would walk to the other side of the road.

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I remember that like walking down the road and seeing people walk to the other side of

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the road.

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I got a lot of fear and uncertainty was there.

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But yeah, I can't stress enough the importance of, you know, being moderate with your diet

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and reasonable and even healthy and exercising and, you know, trying to keep trying to fight

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the battle.

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It's an, it's an everyday battle.

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That's the sugar epidemic that we're seeing.

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And what about the ripple effects?

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Are you seeing gyms because obviously some gyms were closed down permanently.

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Like this put them out of business.

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It destroyed their business.

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Yeah.

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I've seen people, I've seen them bounce back.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, definitely.

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And the membership is growing again.

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Cause I mean, our gym is actually thriving again now.

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You know, again, I've been to some other gyms and seeing people definitely coming back.

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I think, you know, even stronger.

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I think, I think there are people out there who, who, yeah, who were like, it was a wakeup

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call for them.

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And they realize, you know, I hope, you know, I don't think enough people had that wakeup

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call, but, you know, I think it's, I think there definitely were, I've seen patients

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who are like, yeah, I needed, I needed to do something.

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I realized I wasn't doing the right thing.

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I realized I was putting myself at risk and everybody else at risk, you know, my families

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and what we're eating and, and I've talked to a lot of people who turned it around.

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So not, not enough though.

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Well, you were kind enough to introduce me to, Emily Rolfe.

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And so Kyle and Emily were on the show a few weeks ago.

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Talk to me about her case through your eyes.

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Cause I mean, not only was it pertinent in the CrossFit space, it's the kind of thing

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that we would see, you know, as a paramedic or an EMT that we might miss as well.

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And then any other notable kind of orthopedic incidents that you had since we spoke last.

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Yeah.

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So, so yeah, Emily was a, was a fascinating case of a pale hand after exercise and, and,

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and it was a, a pulseless hand.

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There was no pulse in it.

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And, but the problem is it had pinked up.

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So it started to look normal.

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She wasn't having severe pain.

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She was able to move it.

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I think we localized the issue to the fact that she did have some, some needling and

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that may have gotten into the artery and that caused some bleeding and then clotting.

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And so it turned out she had a clot of her, of her hand and her arm and no blood flow.

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There was just a little collateral flow, which made her hand pink up, which was the confusing

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part.

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And she wanted to go back into the games.

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And, and I was saying, you know, you, you, you don't have a pulse in your arm and that's

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really a surgical emergency.

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And, but she wasn't experiencing the severe, severe pain.

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I think part of it is just, she's so tough.

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And part of it was she had so much muscle that there was blood flowing down to her fingers.

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So it wasn't, she wasn't getting like the tourniquet effect of a pulseless arm.

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You know, they, if you don't have blood flowing down into the arm, it's, it's usually horribly

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painful like a, like a blood pressure cuff that doesn't go down.

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But she had emergency surgery, got back in and came back to see us at the games and is

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back at the games now.

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She's exercising again and pretty, pretty cool story, pretty weird picture, dramatic

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presentation.

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And I'm glad, you know, I didn't let her run away and go, go to the warmup area like she

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wanted to.

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And, you know, we, we got her to the hospital immediately, called ahead, got vascular surgery

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involved and they were waiting for her and operated on her within really two hours of

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the diagnosis.

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What was interesting, she mentioned that there had been blood vessels that had grown around

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the issue.

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And you hear obviously with that, with, with other areas of the body too, but it was just,

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was such a reminder of the innate ability for the body to heal if it's given the right

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environment, even if it's just a kind of an emergency vessel.

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Yeah, like if you put a big blockade in a river and, you know, like a, like a clot or

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a blockade in a river, she had little tiny vessels in the muscle bellies trickling down

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into her hand.

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So really helping her hand and saving her, saving her fingers in her hand.

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And again, that's related to the musculature.

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Like if she, she, the muscle has a ton of arteries and veins in them and she had great

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flow in her muscles, but not in the arteries.

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So, you know, just like if you blocked a dam and you had river flowing around the dam,

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that's kind of what happened.

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What about other issues?

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Were there any other incidents that you had to mitigate?

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We spoke about Brooke Wells last time with her elbow, for example.

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Yeah, Brooke Wells last time.

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The last games after Emily's incident, trying to think, last year was pretty, there was

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nothing, nothing that dramatic, which, which we always, we always like to, like we like

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to be in the background, you know, sort of the shadows and, you know, we're there, we're

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there if you need us and hopefully you don't need us.

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Yeah, there was no like major reduction or dislocation or anything like that.

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You know, usual bumps and bruises and, but, you know, I always say when somebody says,

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did anything come in, it was, it's more of, you know, ice bags and Band-Aids.

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What was the, there was one, yeah, I mean, recently there was, you know, an ACL at the

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semi-finals, but yeah, nothing, nothing major at the games last year, which is good.

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We, we like to think we're learning, learning from our, from our, our, our past.

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Kind of injuries.

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I had a guest on a couple of days ago and we were talking about the immense, you know,

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swell now in the use of TRT and obviously in, in a sport where there's drug testing, you

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know, you would, you would think it would be less, but this is just the regular population.

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I think there's a lot of high school kids that are getting into it now.

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There's a lot of first responders because the shift work is destroying their hormones

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and they're not being advised that they can lifestyle change and sleep and, you know,

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peptides they're being sent to the TRT.

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But when interesting thing the guest said was one of the dangers is that, you know,

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this sudden growth in strength is not giving the connective tissue time to strengthen as

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well.

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You've got a very unique perspective.

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So what, what have you seen as far as the, you know, basically steroids coming back in,

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whether it's legal or illegal and the injuries that you're seeing?

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Yeah.

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Um, just as you were talking, uh, it popped into my head.

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Roman Krenikoff was last year.

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It was a Roman Krenikoff.

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I don't know if you remember, he's a Russian athlete and he, um, and he's posted this.

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So it's, it's all out there online.

230
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:32,080
Uh, so nothing, not revealing any secrets, but he was in first place going into the end

231
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,980
of the games, two more events needed.

232
00:15:35,980 --> 00:15:40,120
And he jumped over an obstacle and landed on his foot.

233
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,040
And, uh, and again, this is documented.

234
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:50,040
There's videos on it, but, um, so he, he immediately said, he told his translator, he goes, I just

235
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:57,040
broke my foot and, uh, they came and we, I saw him and huge amount of swelling and limping

236
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,720
and trouble moving.

237
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,640
And we got the X-ray and again, this is documented.

238
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,760
So I'm not revealing anything, but he had, he had a fracture of his metatarsal, which

239
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:13,520
is no big deal, really fracture of the metatarsal on the side of the foot that typically heals

240
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:14,600
and not an issue.

241
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:19,680
But then he had a fracture also of the ligament of the, uh, the Lisfranc joint, which is

242
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,120
like the Roman arch of the foot.

243
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:27,380
So, and we say like Roman arch, like it forms the arch of the foot, like the supporting

244
00:16:27,380 --> 00:16:29,320
structure of the foot.

245
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,800
And there was a fracture there.

246
00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,760
And that was the more concerning issue.

247
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:39,120
And, you know, I, we talked and, you know, we said, you know, you got to be really careful

248
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:43,640
with this because if you jump on this or lift heavy weight, you might have some issues in

249
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:44,640
the future.

250
00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:49,880
And, and it came down to, you know, him, the first event we, you know, I said, well, it's

251
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:50,880
the next event.

252
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:57,440
I heard it was a parallel bar walking with hands, like just literally walking on the

253
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,280
parallel bars with your hands, like, uh, shuffling.

254
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,520
And I was, oh, that's great.

255
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:04,840
And then I said, uh, you know, what's the other one?

256
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,360
They said, oh, seated sled pole.

257
00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:08,840
I'm like, that's awesome.

258
00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:10,600
These are two great events.

259
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,200
And then they go, oh, and, and double unders with a heavy, heavy rope.

260
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,600
And I said, okay, that's not as good.

261
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:22,480
And so I said, you know, you really shouldn't jump on that foot.

262
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,200
And he, I said, can you do it one legged?

263
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:26,200
Can you try?

264
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,400
And he says, I will do it.

265
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:36,680
Like in this, and, uh, and that was the best moment of the games that he, he was out there.

266
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:42,440
The whole crowd was cheering, standing ovation because he was able to do these double unders

267
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:47,480
on one leg, which no one has ever practiced probably.

268
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,960
And with a heavy, heavy rope was like a garden hose.

269
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:51,320
The rope was really heavy.

270
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:52,320
I felt it.

271
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,800
And I, I like was shaking my head thinking this is going to be, this is either going

272
00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,580
to go well or it's not going to go well.

273
00:17:59,580 --> 00:18:04,760
And he was able to do his double under workout and stay in the game.

274
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:09,920
And despite that, you know, third place in the games, despite having come in last on

275
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,040
the last two events.

276
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:20,760
So people said he, he owes me lunch for, for the podium finish in the games for that one.

277
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:25,360
And that was the same X-ray machine that you got just before Brooke's injury.

278
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:29,040
So you're again on scene, you were able to actually diagnose that, but make sure, you

279
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:30,560
know, you knew what you're dealing with.

280
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:31,560
Yeah.

281
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:32,560
Yeah.

282
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,960
The Brooke, uh, and she came out with a great book, resilient, and she, she put that all

283
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:41,040
out there about what was going on behind the scenes and how we were, you know, part of

284
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:46,500
it was her arm was so big and she had this big sleeve on the sleeve was tight.

285
00:18:46,500 --> 00:18:52,640
And so it was, I think in retrospect, I should have just immediately got cut the sleeve off,

286
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,520
but I was struggling to try to put it back with the sleeve on.

287
00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,480
And, uh, and I was like, oh yeah, you know, the sleeve was probably tight and keeping

288
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:01,480
it out of position.

289
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,160
And then, and we finally numbed it up.

290
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,140
And once we numbed it up, you know, made it feel so much better.

291
00:19:07,140 --> 00:19:08,140
We popped it right back in.

292
00:19:08,140 --> 00:19:09,140
Brilliant.

293
00:19:09,140 --> 00:19:13,400
Well, back then to the testosterone question.

294
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:21,000
So what are you seeing about, about that seemingly blowing up and the impact of the injuries

295
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:22,920
that are happening from that?

296
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:23,920
Yeah.

297
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,680
You know, so you know, you're getting, you're getting hypertrophy of the muscle, but yeah,

298
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,640
your tendons still need to adapt to that extra weight.

299
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:33,800
Number one, the extra weight.

300
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:39,160
If you put on 10 pounds of muscle weight, your tendons over months need to adapt to

301
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,120
that new stress.

302
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:42,520
The other part is steroids.

303
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:46,200
We know can have a effect on tendon strength.

304
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:48,560
You can get tendon ruptures from steroids.

305
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,840
So, you know, we're seeing that as well.

306
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:56,800
So you've got to be careful with, with, with that.

307
00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,600
But yeah, I agree that tendons need to get in shape.

308
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,660
And it happens around, you know, this is what growing pains are.

309
00:20:03,660 --> 00:20:05,440
People are like, what is, what are growing pains?

310
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:06,880
What does that mean?

311
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,480
And it's your body elongating.

312
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,320
Your bones are getting longer and bones are getting bigger.

313
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,680
You have this growth spurt and your tendons and muscles having caught up to the fact that

314
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,880
you just put on extra weight through bone.

315
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:26,040
So you get shin splints, you get, you know, tendonitis around the knees or the, and you

316
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:31,520
get these aching, cramping, terrible pains when, when, you know, 13 year olds or 14 year

317
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,360
olds or 12 year olds are running around.

318
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:39,000
Their tendons and muscles having caught up to the extra bone.

319
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,480
That literally happened to my son.

320
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,720
He ran track in high school.

321
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,360
And it was the first two years weren't too bad.

322
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:51,920
And then his junior year, he just had to tap out because he had plantar fasciitis and shin

323
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:52,920
splints.

324
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:57,720
And he went from five foot, you know, six all the way through to basically six foot

325
00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,720
in those couple of years.

326
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:00,720
Yeah.

327
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,960
And what do you, what do you recommend?

328
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,960
So for everyone that's got kids experiencing that, what we, what should we be telling them

329
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,520
or what should be hearing from the PTs or doctors?

330
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:14,760
Number one, don't just write it off as an, as a knife, you know, as a growing pain, like

331
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,520
growing pains have to be dealt with.

332
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:24,060
And if it is tendonitis or shin splints or stress reaction or stress fracture, as a parent

333
00:21:24,060 --> 00:21:29,880
and as a coach and as a sports medicine doctor, you gotta, you gotta sometimes be, be the,

334
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,760
you know, play the hard guy, you know, or play the, be the villain.

335
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,040
And the villain means that you stop it early.

336
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,280
If you stop it early, you're going to be okay.

337
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,640
But if you let them go, cause they want to keep playing and there's a game and there's

338
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:48,120
an AAU and there's a four games in the weekend and there's a tournament the following week.

339
00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:52,620
And then there's a showcase and then there's the, the other team, four teams that they're

340
00:21:52,620 --> 00:21:55,720
on and sometimes you need to get off the wheel.

341
00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:00,240
You've got to get off the, off the, the, the mouse wheel there.

342
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,240
The, what do you call it?

343
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:03,240
The spinning wheel.

344
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:04,240
The hamster wheel.

345
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:05,240
Yeah.

346
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:10,680
So you've got to jump off and stop and, and modify.

347
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,880
But again, if you're getting it, if you get, if you identify it in two or three weeks,

348
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,160
you're going to be okay.

349
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:21,440
If it's six or eight months, it's going to be a long, long time before you feel better.

350
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,200
So sometimes it's the, it's the, you know, the hard right versus the easy wrong.

351
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:26,840
The easy wrong is you just keep going.

352
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:31,080
The hard right is you stop it, you modify, you strengthen.

353
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,680
And so you get to a point where you have no pain and then you can strengthen, but it's

354
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,800
tough to strengthen your leg when you can't even walk, climb or stare.

355
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:46,280
You know, so that's, that's the, probably the biggest thing I see is just people and

356
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:51,160
kids and parents pushing the kids so hard that the kids can't walk and they can't walk

357
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,140
stairs and they can't sleep.

358
00:22:53,140 --> 00:22:56,640
So you got to, you got to, you know, listen to your kid and sometimes the kids won't tell

359
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:57,640
you either.

360
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,680
So that's the tough part, but you're going to watch your kid and say, Hey, why did you,

361
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,320
why were you limping in the fourth quarter or the fourth period?

362
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:05,600
What was going on there?

363
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,880
And they're like, Oh my, I had some soreness or achiness or tightness.

364
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,560
You know, that's, that's pain.

365
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,560
So you got to listen to that.

366
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:14,560
Yeah.

367
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,780
My son ended up, like I said, having to stop and it took, I mean, literally probably three

368
00:23:18,780 --> 00:23:21,480
or four months before the pain went away.

369
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,960
But if he'd stayed and just, you know, had that suck it up mentality, A, he would have,

370
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,920
you know, made himself worse and B he already mentally wasn't enjoying it anymore.

371
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,480
So now you're forcing a kid to do something that hurts them.

372
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:39,360
And now you're lessening the chance of them returning to that sport.

373
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:40,760
Correct.

374
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:46,320
So with the, the testosterone side, the TRT side, you know, my, my main lens is the fire

375
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,840
service and what, what really angers me is you've got young firefighters, you know, late

376
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:55,560
twenties, early thirties that back in the day, it was kind of a, you know, a paradox.

377
00:23:55,560 --> 00:24:00,040
The old way would be like, Oh, you know, your, your testosterone is two 51.

378
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,200
You're within normal limits, you know, and they would be dismissed, you know, and actually

379
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:09,240
that they probably should be in the eight hundreds at 25 years old or 30 years old.

380
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,120
But now I see the opposite, the predatory practice of a lot of these men's clinics

381
00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:17,560
where you go in and they're just saying, Oh, you need to optimize them.

382
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,960
And I see a lot of young people and members of my CrossFit gym that weren't very big

383
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:27,880
and all of a sudden now they're really big and then giving me workout tips, you know,

384
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:28,880
that are using it.

385
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:33,040
And the reason I say this is they're not being told about the fertility issues, the hair

386
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,160
loss, you know, all these things.

387
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:40,400
So what are you seeing as far as that overall industry that's kind of seemingly exploded

388
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:41,640
the last few years?

389
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,680
Yeah, no, I do.

390
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,920
I do see places like that.

391
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:51,040
I have people asking me if I prescribe it and I don't, but yeah, I've seen a lot of

392
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:57,200
people on replacement therapy or supplemental therapy with it.

393
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,200
And yeah, you don't hear about, you know, if you're a young person, you don't hear about

394
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:08,440
the infertility issues or, you know, testicular shrinkage and stuff like that.

395
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:14,040
It's people, you know, I, again, I think it goes into, you know, why, why are you doing

396
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:15,040
it?

397
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,040
Why?

398
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,040
What's the purpose?

399
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,440
What, you know, you want to be as fit and healthy as you can on your own.

400
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:25,120
You don't want to take, why would you take extra drugs to be fit and healthy?

401
00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:29,000
Like you should be able to do this on your own with diet and exercise.

402
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,600
Yeah, you know, you're, you're trying to get it.

403
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,000
You're trying to gain an edge.

404
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,360
And the question is that edge worth it?

405
00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:39,840
And is it detrimental to your tendon?

406
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,360
Yeah, you rip tendons, you can rip pec tendons.

407
00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:48,600
I've seen pec tendons, Achilles, quads, I've seen rips of those.

408
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,440
Yeah, well, I had a friend of mine come over for dinner the other day and he kind of got

409
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:54,760
into the locker room stuff.

410
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,080
This was probably 10 years ago now.

411
00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,480
And you know, it destroyed him.

412
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,520
It destroyed, he's on TRT to this day because of that.

413
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:03,520
He lost his hair.

414
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,400
I mean, you know, and he could see it.

415
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,120
It just, it bothers him.

416
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:09,360
So there is absolutely a place for it.

417
00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:13,160
You know, I've got people that are, you know, veterans, especially with TBIs where the body

418
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,280
just won't make it anymore.

419
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,300
So there's a company Transcend that I think are amazing because they have TRT, but they

420
00:26:19,300 --> 00:26:23,040
have peptides and but you do a full blood work first.

421
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:28,000
They give you a whole kind of overview on dietary changes and sleep and all these other

422
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,720
areas.

423
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:30,720
And that's the thing.

424
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:31,720
It's not all or nothing.

425
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,680
It's just this nuanced conversation.

426
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:34,800
Are you the right candidate?

427
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:41,820
And if so, which of these would help you become better yourself, not replace diet and exercise

428
00:26:41,820 --> 00:26:44,440
with a needle in your arse?

429
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:45,440
Yeah.

430
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:46,440
All right.

431
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:51,680
Well, then I want to shift, I mean, a completely different direction now, but you and I had

432
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,560
a great conversation about workman's comp last time and the first responder and how

433
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:02,320
to how to rehab and what to look for and what to ask, you know, the practitioners to make

434
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,080
sure that you're being given the right advice.

435
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,560
I was listening to that again on my on my drive down here.

436
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:13,800
And another question that I see over and over again, and you'd be a great person to ask

437
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,040
this when it comes to disability.

438
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,640
Now I know, you know, medical disability from from the fire service specifically, but this

439
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,920
applies to the civilians as well.

440
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:31,000
I can't help but feel like there is a push to not heal because God forbid someone finds

441
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,360
you lifting, you know, a dumbbell and trying to get better.

442
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:37,200
So what is your philosophy on that?

443
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,200
Because you know, if you're not able to do a job anymore, a certain job, then and you've

444
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,760
shown that like one of my best friends has had multiple back surgeries.

445
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,920
But he was terrified of someone sitting in a tree with a camera watching him pick up

446
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,400
dog food or something.

447
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,200
But that's not being a firefighter is completely different.

448
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:57,720
And I feel like that totally negates the person mentally and physically healing from that

449
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:58,720
injury.

450
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,840
So talk to me about that.

451
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:07,160
I think I think a lot of a lot of the issues are there are some bad apples that have ruined

452
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,120
it for people.

453
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:10,560
Right.

454
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,960
There are people who have taken advantage of the system.

455
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:20,000
And now the system is suspicious of every little thing that happens because they've

456
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,280
been burned by other people.

457
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:28,080
So I think the system is trying to make sure they're not going to get burnt on every, every,

458
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,520
every, everything.

459
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:35,560
I think I would say 95 percent of the people I see are straight shooters.

460
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,960
They're they get hurt.

461
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,480
They want to get back.

462
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,360
They want to get rehab.

463
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,760
They don't want surgery or some some people push for surgery right away.

464
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:50,040
And that's my job is to say, I think you're going to get better without surgery.

465
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:55,000
So I don't think we need to pull the trigger if it needs surgery, then to get it expeditiously

466
00:28:55,000 --> 00:29:00,760
so you can get back on, get back to your lifestyle and your and your work as fast as possible.

467
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:07,840
But so the people that I've seen and again, it's a small percentage.

468
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:14,520
You know, I think less than five percent probably are some people who just try to be out for

469
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,840
the summer or, you know, I'm not going back.

470
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,000
I'm going to string this out, you know, stuff like that.

471
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,520
Again, a small percentage.

472
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,720
Most people.

473
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:32,440
It's you know, with a doctor's note, you know, we cover the person like if we say, you know,

474
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,520
you're you're not going to work right for now.

475
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,000
We're going to get you back.

476
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:43,640
And we know that the people who get back to work, who don't stay out of work forever,

477
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,360
are the people that get back quicker.

478
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:50,840
So if you're sitting at home watching TV and every commercial you see is, did you get hurt

479
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,520
at work or injury?

480
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,160
Call this law office.

481
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,700
You see that every commercial break, you're going to start to like think.

482
00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:04,000
And so but again, I think it comes down to personality individuals.

483
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:09,400
So yeah, I think getting back to work in some capacity, whether it's a light duty work.

484
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:14,960
And I know there's all issues with light duty and financially and extra overtime hours and

485
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,440
things like that.

486
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:22,640
But I think just being around your your your crew, getting back to socializing and just

487
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:29,120
not sitting at home for three months recovering is important.

488
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,160
And it's my job to say like, you can't do this.

489
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,640
If you can't do this, here's a note to say you can't do this.

490
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:41,240
You got to tell your boss or your case manager or whoever it is.

491
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:42,240
These are the restrictions.

492
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:48,880
I've seen some bosses and employers who try to put people beyond my restrictions.

493
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:49,880
And that's a no go.

494
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,960
Like you can't you just can't do that.

495
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:59,280
So yeah, there's a lot of it's it's when I see somebody, it's like a social visit.

496
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,080
It's like, you know, do you feel like you can do your regular job?

497
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:03,080
No.

498
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,080
OK, let's talk.

499
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,560
Can you do you know, can you do desk work?

500
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,440
And I know these people, these guys don't want to do desk work.

501
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:09,440
I know they hate it.

502
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:10,440
They're embarrassed by it.

503
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,760
They don't want to sit and just answer phones.

504
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,080
And I get it.

505
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,280
But then there's workers comp who's saying, like, can they sit at a desk?

506
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:18,280
Can they do whatever?

507
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:19,880
Can they answer a phone?

508
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:26,280
So there's there's both sides to the to the everything.

509
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:32,520
You know, I obviously getting somebody back to full time duty after surgery takes time,

510
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,480
especially if you're repairing something, if you're putting a tendon back together,

511
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:42,180
you know, you got to it's my goal and the therapist's goal to get them 100 percent back

512
00:31:42,180 --> 00:31:47,760
to feeling normal if they for whatever reason aren't can't get back to full duty.

513
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,600
Then that's you're looking at it like a permanent partial disability if you can't get back to

514
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:53,600
your full job.

515
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:59,480
And but, you know, you definitely go for months and months of rehab and strengthening.

516
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:05,240
And sometimes it's an arthritic shoulder or arthritic knee that prevents it.

517
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,360
You know, you have a bad injury and sometimes you already have preexisting arthritis and

518
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,440
it just doesn't respond as, you know, a joint without arthritis.

519
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,340
So sometimes people don't get back to work.

520
00:32:16,340 --> 00:32:20,880
And that's where you have a permanent partial disability where you can't lift heavy things

521
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,080
because you've demonstrated like you can't lift heavy things.

522
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,280
But typically you tear a rotator cuff, you fix it, it heals.

523
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,320
You have a meniscus, it's torn, you fix it, it heals.

524
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,040
If you have arthritis, that's a different ballgame.

525
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:41,560
I feel that once people have the disability label, though, there's almost like this, this

526
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:47,080
kind of sense of, well, don't don't surpass that now for the rest of your life.

527
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,080
And it may be.

528
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:49,360
Now, please jump in.

529
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,240
Yeah, no, I hear that.

530
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:57,800
Yeah, that's you always say like we have maximized the amount of time for this injury.

531
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:58,800
There is a chance.

532
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,840
Yeah, you could start to feel better if you start to feel better and feel like you want

533
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:02,840
to get back.

534
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,200
And yeah, you can challenge that permanent partial disability.

535
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,200
Sure.

536
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:12,880
You know, I hate writing it because people haven't progressed normally and I always hate

537
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:13,880
to write it.

538
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,880
And again, it's a small percentage of people that that don't get back.

539
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:23,120
You know, most people get back, but it can take months and months for people to get back.

540
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,720
But yeah, if you have that permanent partial and you're starting to feel better than yeah,

541
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,840
I would bring it up again and come back and say, I'm feeling better.

542
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,200
I want to go back to work.

543
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,360
And you can always revisit it.

544
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:41,360
I don't think it's you know, I don't think we can say, you know, we can guess that this

545
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,400
is probably permanent partial.

546
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:48,320
But you know, I'm always happy to revisit somebody who's feeling better and wants to

547
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:49,320
get back to work.

548
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:50,320
Sure.

549
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:51,320
Yeah.

550
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:52,320
Well, that's good to know.

551
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,240
I've never heard anyone say that before, but I think that gives an element of hope.

552
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:59,280
Like, for example, my back injury when I only talked about this last time, foundation training

553
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:00,280
was that missing piece.

554
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:05,880
You know, I think if I just done chiropractic and what I was doing, that healing curve would

555
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,200
have been so slow that they would have hit 12 months and said, you know, I was going

556
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:10,200
to retire you.

557
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:11,200
Maybe.

558
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:12,200
I don't know.

559
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,520
I just discover foundation training and go, wait a second, my back is better now.

560
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,440
So I think that's such an important conversation.

561
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:24,380
Like if you had both your legs blown off in Afghanistan and you were, you know, a gymnastics

562
00:34:24,380 --> 00:34:26,640
coach or something, there's a little bit more of a challenge there.

563
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:27,640
I get it.

564
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,200
But you know, you were hurt as a construction worker and you thought that that was going

565
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:32,640
to be it.

566
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:36,160
The mindset I feel that's projected is that, well, you know, here's a sticker for your

567
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:37,160
car.

568
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:38,160
You can park next to the store.

569
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:43,400
You are disabled versus the incredible men and women that we see in the adaptive division

570
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,200
who have the complete opposite mindset.

571
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:52,720
And I feel like if we could apply the adaptive mindset to the disabled concept of the world,

572
00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:56,400
it would put hope like today, I'm going to try and get a little bit better than I was

573
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:57,400
yesterday.

574
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:58,640
I know it's been three years now.

575
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,960
I am not going to stop because I'm going to play with my grandkids back injury or not.

576
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:03,960
Right.

577
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:04,960
Yeah.

578
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,640
And I think about, you know, people getting worried that someone's going to see them,

579
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,800
you know, lifting something and say, you know, you're not supposed to lift more than 10 pounds.

580
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:18,360
And yeah, I mean, if you're doing it, I mean, that's the tough part is you got to be honest

581
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,280
because if you're doing it, then you can have a higher weight lifting.

582
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:26,760
You know, you could climb up and yeah, I mean, look at CrossFit athletes.

583
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:31,520
Some guys can't do a deadlift and three years later, they're doing clean and jerks over

584
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:32,520
their head.

585
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:33,520
Like there's always hope.

586
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:34,520
There's always hope.

587
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,960
There's always, you know, you never give up hope as always.

588
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,280
And a lot of it is mindset.

589
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:40,280
Yeah.

590
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:47,760
If you are, you know, defiant and don't want to be labeled that way, then yeah, again,

591
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,000
you see some of the adaptive athletes.

592
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,160
It's just mind boggling what they're doing and what they can do and what they've been

593
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,400
told not to do that they can't do this.

594
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,560
And they sort of look at that as a challenge.

595
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:05,640
There's been a lot of reorganization of CrossFit even since we last spoke.

596
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:06,640
What are you seeing?

597
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,200
Again, I'm not, I don't have my finger on the pulse anywhere near as much as I used

598
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,080
to when it comes to that community.

599
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:17,760
What have you seen the last two and a half years as far as, you know, whether it's management,

600
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,120
philosophies, you know, the way the games are going?

601
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:29,520
They're games wise, I think, you know, Castro's back from being away and Boz has done a great

602
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:30,520
job.

603
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:38,000
And, you know, so I think games wise, there's still, you know, I did sort of the numbers

604
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:45,240
and the sort of feelings go back to sort of 2018, 2019, where a lot of people are there.

605
00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:51,800
Obviously we've seen the outsourcing of the masters and the adaptives and the teens.

606
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:57,200
So that going into Fort Worth, we're looking at a one venue thing, like more like a regional

607
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:03,480
event versus at Madison and Carson, we had four events going on at the same time.

608
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,080
And that was from the medical team.

609
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:10,280
That was, you know, we were covering four different things at the same time, including

610
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:15,240
spectator experience and the grounds and things like that.

611
00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:17,120
So now we have one venue.

612
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:29,960
The team has definitely sort of sharpened or been, you know, we've lost members because

613
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:36,200
of the, you know, we don't need 60 people anymore with a one venue event.

614
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,720
That's still coming out, what the events are going to be.

615
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:42,360
We still don't know, the public still doesn't know.

616
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:48,120
But it's more like a regional type event where you just have the one stage, one venue, teams

617
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,360
and those guys.

618
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:56,720
From the HQ point of view, yeah, I mean, I've just been seeing what everybody else is seeing.

619
00:37:56,720 --> 00:38:05,040
There was some turmoil, certainly turmoil with leadership changes and media changes.

620
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,600
And now I think there's a sort of a settling period.

621
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,920
People are talking about the, is there going to be a sale or not?

622
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,640
Who knows?

623
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:20,560
You know, that is typical, you know, private equity usually purchases to sell.

624
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:21,560
Who knows?

625
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:27,520
I'm not in on those levels of developments.

626
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:32,040
Where I train now, we've made the shift to Wolf Brigade programming.

627
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,040
Greg Walsh was in the CrossFit community.

628
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:39,160
He kind of went out on his own and all he did was he took the same principles, but there's

629
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:45,560
a lot more focus on single arm kettlebell work, mace work, and I'm working on a lot of the

630
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:46,560
imbalances.

631
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:51,600
And I did CrossFit for 16 years and at 50 years old now, for me, this has become a much

632
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:52,600
better fit.

633
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,840
Let me work on the damage because I mean, I had two meniscus tears, which again, I healed

634
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,040
everything I had back to full duty as a firefighter.

635
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:07,560
But there's a lot of us that just don't move well that some of the kind of the CrossFit

636
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,720
game, certainly the high level CrossFit stuff demands.

637
00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:18,440
And so I'm seeing just a metamorphosis, like a growth, like the Rolling Stone is collecting

638
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:24,040
more moss and adding to all the great stuff that Greg started in the first place.

639
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:28,480
Are you seeing that, you know, through your travels and experiences that there's a kind

640
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:32,080
of, you know, because it's not going to stop like this is we made it.

641
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,080
This is everything.

642
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:34,080
This is perfect.

643
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,180
There's always going to be an evolution.

644
00:39:35,180 --> 00:39:39,960
So are you seeing some interesting growth, even if it's a kind of hybrid of the original

645
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,320
CrossFit and some other things?

646
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:48,680
Yeah, I think the growth I've seen is the growth that I told Greg, you know, many, many

647
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:55,080
years ago, you know, about like, you know, you want you want to get the 100, 200 million

648
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,360
people out there who who need to exercise or don't.

649
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:04,340
And I'm not saying in any way, shape or form that that I helped tell Greg that, you know,

650
00:40:04,340 --> 00:40:06,160
we need to get the whole public involved.

651
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:11,980
But yeah, I mean, if you look at CrossFit, you know, elite training, forging elite fitness

652
00:40:11,980 --> 00:40:16,640
and getting all these people like sending that message that anybody can do it.

653
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:17,640
It's good.

654
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:18,640
It's scalable.

655
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:24,960
And I think hopefully that is, you know, the future where you can send this message to

656
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:31,040
everybody, you know, instead of not just the, you know, the servicemen and women, military

657
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:37,640
seals, you know, firefighter police, but getting everybody involved, getting everybody healthy,

658
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:42,680
getting everybody fit, getting everybody off processed food and watching the sugar that

659
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:48,880
they're taking in and and really, you know, making the world look like a CrossFit gym.

660
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:55,600
You know, it's funny when we travel for the games and we walk through Madison Airport

661
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,100
and it's really, you know, after the games or before the games and you're walking through

662
00:40:59,100 --> 00:41:05,280
Chicago O'Hare and you start to see more people who are going to the games or coming from

663
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:10,160
the games and and you just you can tell you can tell a CrossFitter and you know, I don't

664
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:14,720
want to say like you can but like you can not only by the clothes they wear, but you

665
00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:18,800
know, just the way they carry themselves and the fitness level.

666
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:24,280
And again, to have that as a goal without getting hurt, without getting orthopedic injuries

667
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:30,360
and that would be, you know, an amazing world to see people, you know, like that walking

668
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:36,800
around and I know it sounds weird, but you know, I think it's would save a lot of money

669
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:45,520
on health care would save a lot of effort with medicine and and pills and all that.

670
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:49,260
It's been interesting watching, you know, the the evolution of CrossFit and we talked

671
00:41:49,260 --> 00:41:52,960
about this last time, but I think that, you know, when you deviate too much, it can be

672
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:58,960
dangerous and I know for me, this is just purely James Gearing's opinion now when was

673
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:04,360
it Monster that became the the sponsor of the Monster energy drink that to me was like,

674
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,360
okay, now we've lost you lost your way somewhere like you're trying to send a message and I

675
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:09,760
say the same thing to the World Cup.

676
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,380
You have McDonald's sponsoring you, you know, a sport.

677
00:42:13,380 --> 00:42:18,080
So I think there's a there's a there's a responsibility that needs to be refound that if you are going

678
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,120
to be in that space, you got to walk the walk even with your sponsorship.

679
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:23,120
Yeah.

680
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,880
Yeah, that's a that's a higher level issue.

681
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:27,880
Yeah.

682
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:28,880
All right.

683
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,280
I don't want to back you into a corner.

684
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:38,480
Um, last time, Owen Velouch was you'd mentioned that there was a firefighter and he had something

685
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:39,800
he wanted to talk about.

686
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:44,600
Owen came on the show, you know, we were you know, it was when he was kind of, you know,

687
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:45,760
really going through his chemo too.

688
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,960
He was pretty sick when he when he came on.

689
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,000
Obviously, now he's doing incredibly well.

690
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,040
So walk me through that journey through your eyes and how is he doing today?

691
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,680
Yeah, he's he's doing amazing.

692
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,240
First of all, he's recovered.

693
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:02,400
He's feeling great.

694
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,560
He's had follow up scans.

695
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:11,520
So this was a guy who was on the is the coordinator of the games team and had reached out and

696
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:16,440
said, you know, he's having some pain and soreness and he had some tests and and they,

697
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:22,680
you know, found cancer and he's he was sort of facing, you know, mortality.

698
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:30,280
He was, you know, very scared, worried, nervous and, you know, made everybody.

699
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,160
No, you know, I was nervous.

700
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,760
I was I was worried for him.

701
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:44,000
But as a doctor trying to, you know, tell him not to stop, you know, like, we don't

702
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:50,440
know what this is, we don't know what you know, I never use the C word.

703
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,360
And you know, he said, we don't know.

704
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:53,480
We don't know what it is.

705
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:54,800
And there were all these options.

706
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,880
And finally, with testing and testing and testing, because a lot of his tests came back

707
00:43:58,880 --> 00:43:59,880
normal.

708
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,160
You know, they found out what it was.

709
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:07,420
And then, you know, we got into treatment and we got into how you know what what's going

710
00:44:07,420 --> 00:44:09,360
to happen from here.

711
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,640
And then we you know, it was just an amazing story.

712
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:18,520
Something that I didn't, you know, in retrospect, glad it turned out the way it did.

713
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:23,080
It was it was touch and go for a long time.

714
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:28,000
But yeah, I mean, when that happens to a friend who's your age and you start thinking and

715
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:33,840
you start hearing how scared he was, how nervous he was, it was it was difficult.

716
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:34,840
Yeah.

717
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:35,840
And he's a firefighter paramedic.

718
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,120
So he's not, you know, a normally nervous individual.

719
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:40,120
Yeah.

720
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:41,840
And he said that, too.

721
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,520
Because everything I've seen has just blown off of me.

722
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:51,220
Like I never sat back and thought, oh, wow, this, you know, this person just passed away.

723
00:44:51,220 --> 00:44:54,800
This person just died on the road.

724
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,200
And he's like, all of a sudden, it was just right in his face.

725
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:02,640
Like, and yeah, I mean, if you've ever had any kind of sickness or illness that you thought

726
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:10,240
may be serious, like it's it's sort of that, you know, come to Jesus moment kind of thing.

727
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:14,520
One of the things that I try and talk about a lot and I know I spoke to Owen about it

728
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:20,240
and my other friend, Jim Bernica, but a lot of times these firefighters will get cancer.

729
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:25,560
And then, you know, if they are fortunate enough to survive and then get back to work,

730
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,100
then they're put back on the same shifts.

731
00:45:28,100 --> 00:45:32,920
And I think that people just don't understand the impact of sleep deprivation on cancer.

732
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,280
It's a known carcinogen.

733
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,240
So I think that's one thing that needs to be a standard.

734
00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:40,960
If one of your firefighters get cancer, you're talking again about, you know, going to a

735
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:42,040
different mode of work.

736
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:43,040
You can work in training.

737
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:47,880
You still wear your gear and, you know, teach young fire recruits or your department.

738
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:52,560
But to take someone who's just recovered from cancer and then sleep deprived them again,

739
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,440
to me, you're just throwing gasoline on the fire.

740
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,000
Yeah, no, it's yeah.

741
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:04,160
I mean, just from a, you know, from a point of view of just, you know, having cancer and,

742
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,800
you know, give yourself a break, obviously, if you've been through chemotherapy, you know,

743
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:13,720
like just give yourself a break and just, you know, take like years or two or three

744
00:46:13,720 --> 00:46:17,040
to recover and, you know, see how you feel, certainly.

745
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,040
But yeah, it's tough.

746
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:20,040
It was tough.

747
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:21,040
It was amazing.

748
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:27,800
It was great to see, you know, he had a follow up study with no pathology and it was amazing.

749
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:28,800
It was amazing.

750
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:29,800
Yeah.

751
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,840
Well, also, if you remind me, because it's been a couple of years now, I think, it was

752
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:39,720
also like he's he's found something on a scan and he wasn't sure, but he asked you.

753
00:46:39,720 --> 00:46:43,000
And I think that was a really important thing because we're so dismissive, like, that's

754
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:44,000
nothing.

755
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:45,000
It'll be fine.

756
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,000
So talk to me about that.

757
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,400
I mean, you know, the the fact that you were in that chain of his survival.

758
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:50,400
Yeah.

759
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:51,400
Yeah.

760
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:52,400
You know, he said, Oh, what do you think?

761
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:58,520
And I said, Oh, you know, so so people don't know this, but every time you ask an orthopod,

762
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:05,320
what do they think or what's this bump or bruise in the back of our minds?

763
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,540
There's always a what if this is cancer?

764
00:47:08,540 --> 00:47:09,540
And that's it's sad.

765
00:47:09,540 --> 00:47:11,080
I mean, it's not sad.

766
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,280
It's just it's the way we're trained.

767
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:18,320
Like people complain about us getting an X-ray in the office for six months of shoulder pain.

768
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,760
Well, you know, there's a reason we do that.

769
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,840
You know, people are like, Oh, I didn't fracture anything.

770
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:24,400
So what are you going to see with that?

771
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,240
You're not going to see a fracture.

772
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:29,040
And we just go, yeah, we're not going to see a fracture.

773
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:33,360
And you know, we don't explain we're looking for something else.

774
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:39,140
But that's literally the reason why if somebody has a traumatic shoulder pain for six months,

775
00:47:39,140 --> 00:47:45,360
we get an X-ray because we've seen a handful of cases in our career.

776
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,960
So that's that's why.

777
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:53,680
So I hope people understand that now when they know that they're why we're doing it.

778
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:58,080
Obviously, we don't want to tell them, well, we're looking for the C word.

779
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,960
So but people come in saying, I think I have cancer.

780
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:03,600
Can you do an X-ray?

781
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:10,240
And again, the numbers, the number of cancer cases in bones is infant is rare.

782
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:11,240
You know, it's rare.

783
00:48:11,240 --> 00:48:12,800
It's incredibly rare.

784
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:18,000
And for the amount of people that we see every day, you know, you see again, I've seen a

785
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,840
handful in my career that I've picked up on an X-ray.

786
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:29,360
So if I've seen 20,000 people in my career so far, you know, a handful of that.

787
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,080
So it's it's pretty, pretty rare.

788
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:34,080
What was I going with that?

789
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,520
Well, actually, I was going to send you to what's going on.

790
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:41,200
But just before you do, what what do you see?

791
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:45,880
What is the the presentation on an X-ray that would suggest bone cancer just on the off

792
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,480
chance that a physician misses but a patient actually catches it?

793
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:50,860
So some are subtle.

794
00:48:50,860 --> 00:48:52,480
Some are obvious.

795
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:58,320
It's an irregular pattern of bone that doesn't look normal where there's eating away of the

796
00:48:58,320 --> 00:48:59,320
bone.

797
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,280
The bone looks like you got a big hole in it.

798
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,200
There's like a big loosened can be.

799
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:06,200
Depends on the cancer.

800
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:12,080
Some cancers grow big white sort of fluffy things and other cancers have a little punched

801
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,960
out hole in it.

802
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,540
And so there's different types of cancers.

803
00:49:17,540 --> 00:49:21,000
But for Owen, he was like, yeah, I got this weird hip pain.

804
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:22,000
It's been going on.

805
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,200
Well, you got to get an X-ray and get checked out.

806
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,400
You know, he's in California and I'm here.

807
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:29,040
And I say, you know, you got to get checked out.

808
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,640
And then he blew it off and he blew it off.

809
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:35,120
And then he really had severe, severe pain.

810
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,000
And I said, you know, you really got to get this checked out.

811
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,600
And and and he did.

812
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:42,080
And they found it.

813
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:48,760
He was having back pain and they did an MRI of his back and it showed up in his pelvis

814
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:50,360
that he had something in his pelvis.

815
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,320
So they saw it on the edge of the back scan.

816
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,320
And then they got the pelvic scan.

817
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:57,760
And that's when they found it.

818
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,480
But he was to the point where like, like he couldn't sleep.

819
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:02,840
He was having trouble putting weight on that leg.

820
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:07,040
So it was, you know, it wasn't like, oh, I got, you know, again, I don't want to scare

821
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,000
everybody who has back pain.

822
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:13,040
But you know, like a little bit of back pain, a little soreness, a little muscle ache.

823
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:17,840
This was not that this was and 90 percent of the world has a little bit of soreness,

824
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:18,840
a little bit of ache.

825
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,400
It doesn't, you know, if it affects, you know, you can't sleep.

826
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,520
You're having you know, you can't put weight on it.

827
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:26,680
That's that's a different story.

828
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,880
I think if my memory serves me right, he he just done a workout with deadlifts or something

829
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:31,880
as well.

830
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:36,360
So he was kind of putting it down to the soreness that would be natural.

831
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:37,360
Yeah.

832
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:38,360
Yeah.

833
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:43,280
And that's the weird part, too, is that, you know, he was sore after a workout.

834
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,920
And but then he was having more trouble.

835
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:51,920
Well, I want to hit one more area and then we'll go to your new project, Rocket Science.

836
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:52,920
Oh, yeah.

837
00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:59,560
We spoke about PRP and almost a PCP then we didn't talk about that.

838
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,080
Maybe we should.

839
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,720
And then stem cells about two and a half years ago.

840
00:51:03,720 --> 00:51:09,880
Are there any kind of evolutions in technology or therapies that have excited you in your

841
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:13,080
field in the last couple of years?

842
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:21,280
Um, PRP has been studied more and been shown to be a viable alternative to cortisone and

843
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,880
gel for tendonitis and arthritis.

844
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:33,080
Again, not regrowing things, not regenerating rotator cuffs, but, you know, alleviating

845
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:34,080
pain.

846
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:40,020
And again, I just had a orthopedic conference and we're looking at some of these studies

847
00:51:40,020 --> 00:51:45,520
and and and that's what they're been shown to help with.

848
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,860
They have anti-inflammatory properties like cortisone, but don't have the side effects

849
00:51:49,860 --> 00:51:57,440
of cortisone, which can be accelerating arthritis and tendon issues, tendon damage.

850
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:58,980
So yeah, those those are exciting.

851
00:51:58,980 --> 00:52:06,280
There are some there's always companies looking for curing arthritis.

852
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:12,280
And I was at one company that was showing a little plugs that you put in the bone that

853
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:16,200
can generate cartilage, you know, next to this.

854
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:21,580
They're actually using sea coral where you drill a hole in the bone and it's a literally

855
00:52:21,580 --> 00:52:27,440
a piece of sea coral that goes in and it can and they think it stimulates some of the cartilage,

856
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,720
the hyaline cartilage on the surface of the bone.

857
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:37,120
So that has just, you know, that sort of struck was of interest recently.

858
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:43,560
Other, you know, there's there they're looking at, you know, the regenerative potentials

859
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:49,560
of these things and seeing if they can help regenerate tissue.

860
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:53,800
And I think the key with everything is how do you prevent the breakdown of it as opposed

861
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:57,640
to how do you get the healing of a tear?

862
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:02,240
Like how do you prevent the initial from tearing or how do you prevent the initial case of

863
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:03,240
arthritis?

864
00:53:03,240 --> 00:53:07,080
That's that's the fascinating part for me.

865
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:11,000
I meant to ask you this earlier, but it's a good segue talking about prevention.

866
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:14,840
I love doing as much as I can in the gym barefoot.

867
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:19,200
It just makes sense to me if you know if we were originally barefoot as a species before

868
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:21,960
we invented Nikes.

869
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:23,280
What is your perspective of that?

870
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,400
Because we talked about plantar fasciitis and shin splints.

871
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:31,360
And then obviously you've got knee and up to hips and, you know, and back and beyond

872
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:35,800
about the impact or, you know, the benefit of barefoot training, if you believe it.

873
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:40,000
And then your perspective on some of these sports shoes are out there doing damage at

874
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,000
the same time.

875
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,840
Yeah, I think I'm all for it.

876
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:47,240
It's you know, obviously there's an issue with just the bottom of your feet.

877
00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:53,960
If you have to run outside and there's stuff outside and put landing on hard surfaces or

878
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:58,920
pebbles or cuts or anything, so there's a protection issue of the bottom of your foot

879
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:00,720
being protected.

880
00:54:00,720 --> 00:54:09,000
The other part is getting your ligaments and bones and tendons gradually used to that training.

881
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:15,480
So not just saying, OK, I'm going to be barefoot today and do the same workout that you did.

882
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:21,340
There's like any tendon and preventing tendon or stress fracture, you have to really gradually

883
00:54:21,340 --> 00:54:22,340
build into it.

884
00:54:22,340 --> 00:54:23,960
Yeah, I have no problems with it.

885
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:28,240
I think the biggest issue is just protecting the bottom of your feet so you don't get cuts

886
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:31,720
or possible infections on the bottom of your feet.

887
00:54:31,720 --> 00:54:32,720
Yeah, that's funny.

888
00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:35,400
A number of people say, what if you drop a kettlebell on it?

889
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,280
I'm like, what are you wearing?

890
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:38,280
Armour shoes?

891
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:41,000
If you drop a kettlebell on yours, it's going to hurt too.

892
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,000
Steel tip toes.

893
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,920
I tell you, you're a lot more careful where that kettlebell goes when you're not wearing

894
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:46,920
shoes.

895
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:47,920
So I would say.

896
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:54,400
But yeah, I mean, as far as double unders, I could never do barefoot, course running.

897
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:59,520
But I try and find that I would cry like a baby if I didn't have shoes on double unders.

898
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:01,600
Yeah, it's great when they don't hit you.

899
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:03,560
But oh my God, it's so painful.

900
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:09,340
But then New Balance did an excellent Minimus shoe a few years ago.

901
00:55:09,340 --> 00:55:13,540
But ever since then, I just was totally unable to find any good shoe.

902
00:55:13,540 --> 00:55:19,360
And it seems like the minimal by the mainstream people, they've just shied away from it.

903
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:25,040
And then the true kind of minimal ones, which are very expensive, the bottom slaps.

904
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,800
It's like hitting a piece of plastic every single footstep.

905
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:32,880
So the New Balance ones for the running and everywhere where I needed to wear shoes, they

906
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:35,160
were phenomenal, but they discontinued them.

907
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:36,160
It was so sad.

908
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:46,280
Yeah, and if you're hiking, there's the rocks and sticks and yeah, so there's an element

909
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,880
to protection of the bottom of your foot.

910
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:49,880
Absolutely.

911
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:50,880
All right.

912
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,240
Well, then I know you have a new project now, Rocket Science.

913
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:54,240
Let's talk about that.

914
00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:59,200
Yeah, this is from Jay Vera, Karen Thompson, Lauren Fulkerson.

915
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:03,520
They call me up and they're like, what do you think about doing this?

916
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:07,480
And I said, that's a pretty cool idea.

917
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:16,280
So that was one goal is to get educational videos out there to let people know about

918
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,080
injury prevention.

919
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:26,880
And then I have my 321 Go MD, which is online, and making that into a virtual experience.

920
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:32,040
So we're making an ebook coming out soon where people are going to be able to click on it

921
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:37,880
and hear testimonials and see videos of people and surgeries.

922
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:39,600
And so I'm excited about that.

923
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:47,680
We're shopping that around right now and that'll be coming out hopefully before the games.

924
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:52,320
But yeah, the Rocket Science, one of the ideas was just calling up these games athletes and

925
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:53,920
saying, hey, do you have an issue?

926
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,240
Do you have a question?

927
00:56:56,240 --> 00:57:03,920
Go online, answer your question and not giving medical advice, but giving education.

928
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:10,800
And if other people have this, learning from that and learning what they might have and

929
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:12,440
having people come see me too.

930
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:13,440
That's part of it.

931
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:18,280
Well, I think it's so important though, because between the website and then what you're doing

932
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,760
now, if there is a firefighter or a police officer or someone out there listening who's

933
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:26,720
got an issue with their shoulder or their knee, they can see, okay, this is the advice

934
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,420
I should be getting or something like this.

935
00:57:29,420 --> 00:57:30,420
This isn't my physician.

936
00:57:30,420 --> 00:57:32,320
I'm watching a video online.

937
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:36,540
But then when they go to their person, that would be a good barometer then like, is this

938
00:57:36,540 --> 00:57:39,240
the right fit for me or is this person way off?

939
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:45,120
And I talked last time about the first person I had interaction with with my back injury

940
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:53,440
was 350 pounds telling me I needed to take anti-inflammatory and opioids.

941
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:57,200
And I was like, yeah, and you're not the person that's going to be giving me wellness advice,

942
00:57:57,200 --> 00:57:58,200
I'm afraid.

943
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:02,640
So just understanding what it should look like in itself, I think is very important.

944
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:03,640
Yeah.

945
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:04,640
Yeah.

946
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:05,640
Yeah.

947
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:12,520
The premise of the book is going to be show me where it hurts or where does it hurt.

948
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:16,240
And some of the chapters are going to show people pointing, you know, if it hurts there,

949
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:22,240
that could be a biceps over here, that could be a rotator cuff or bursitis, stuff like

950
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:23,240
that.

951
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,480
You know, so people can say, oh, that's where my pain is.

952
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,640
And let me look up what that could be.

953
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:35,160
And again, I can't make a diagnosis, but at least get you in the right direction.

954
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:39,880
I just interview one of my English friends as a firefighter that became an osteopath.

955
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:44,240
And he's just written a book, Stronger, it's called.

956
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:48,040
And it's aimed at the middle-aged person.

957
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:52,240
So you may have been an athlete before, you may not have been an athlete before, but the

958
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:58,440
message that he's conveying is the importance of strength training specifically for longevity.

959
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:02,280
Now obviously, you have the muscles, you have the bone density.

960
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:04,080
So just talk to me about that.

961
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:05,080
Yeah.

962
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:11,520
I mean, just so much importance to muscle, number one, from your ability to get up off

963
00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:14,880
a chair is what's going to keep you out of a nursing home.

964
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:21,120
And if you have strong quads, and it's literally your quad, your quad muscle, if your quads

965
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:26,760
are able to get you up off a toilet seat or off a chair, then you don't need assistance

966
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:28,400
doing that.

967
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:34,280
And then if you look at some of these studies, your ability to get up off the ground by yourself,

968
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:37,480
and the mortality numbers that go along with that.

969
00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:43,920
If you can't get yourself off the ground, that is actually an indicator of mortality.

970
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:50,820
The muscle strength and the muscle building that comes with diabetes management, the mental

971
00:59:50,820 --> 00:59:59,000
health benefits and prevention of Alzheimer's and dementia issues, I think has been shown.

972
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:05,720
I was at the CrossFit Health Summit, and we talked about that with neurocognitive functioning

973
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:13,500
and exercise, with diabetic management, osteoporosis prevention, all these things are related to

974
01:00:13,500 --> 01:00:16,000
muscle mass and muscle strength.

975
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,000
Gabriel Lyons has done a good job.

976
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:19,600
Rhoda Patrick has done a great job.

977
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:25,320
Tommy Wood gave great lectures on this, and talking about people's ability to think better

978
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:32,360
after exercise, people's ability to prevent cardiovascular disease with exercise, all

979
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:33,360
these things.

980
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:34,360
Brilliant.

981
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:37,120
I was just with Tommy in November in Pensacola.

982
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:39,400
He's a great guy.

983
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:43,640
So the other side of that conversation is now you have someone who's in their 50s or

984
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:47,560
60s or maybe older, and they've been told, oh, it's too late now.

985
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:48,560
You're too old.

986
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:49,560
Oh, God, no.

987
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:53,240
So talk to me about that, because I remember a study that was done a while ago now, and

988
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:59,240
even though we're not lifting the same amount of weight, it was like an 18 and an 80-year-old

989
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:05,640
athlete put on a program at the same time, and their relative improvement was actually

990
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:07,080
exactly the same.

991
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:08,080
Interesting.

992
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:09,080
Yeah.

993
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:10,080
I haven't read that study.

994
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:11,080
That's a good one.

995
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:17,680
Yeah, no, I've seen hundreds of people who have been able to improve muscle mass.

996
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:25,560
We have a 75-year-old guy in our gym who took off a couple of percentage points of fat and

997
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:27,600
put on muscle mass.

998
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:31,520
Everybody's like a 75-year-old, and he's got rheumatoid arthritis.

999
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:37,080
75-year-old with rheumatoid, and people were shocked that he gained weight, but the weight

1000
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:39,520
was muscle.

1001
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:46,480
And so I've seen videos of him with his air squat from before and after, and it's tremendous.

1002
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:51,120
So I have a video myself.

1003
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:59,560
Back in 15 years ago, I couldn't lift 135 overhead, and I did 185 recently on push presses

1004
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:04,320
overhead on the games and the quarterfinals.

1005
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:11,000
So in 15 years, with the right technique and being reasonable, I've been able to just walk

1006
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:12,000
up the stairs.

1007
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:19,360
And yeah, so the ability to do that is, years ago, decades ago, we were told, you're just

1008
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:26,160
going to get into a wheelchair and roll away into the sunset.

1009
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:28,240
I would encourage everybody.

1010
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:43,680
It's never too late to start.