This episode is sponsored by a company I've used for well over a decade and that is 511.
I wore their uniforms back in Anaheim, California and have used their products ever since.
From their incredibly strong yet light footwear to their cut uniforms for both male and female
responders, I found them hands down the best workwear in all the departments that I've
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Outside of the fire service, I use their luggage for everything and I travel a lot and they
are also now sponsoring the 7X team as we embark around the world on the Human Performance
project.
We have Murph coming up in May and again I bought their plate carrier, I ended up buying
real ballistic plates rather than the fake weight plates and that has been my ride or
die through Murph the last few years as well.
One area I want to talk about that I haven't in previous sponsorship spots is their brick
and mortar element.
They were predominantly an online company up till more recently but now they are approaching
100 stores all over the US.
My local store is here in Gainesville Florida and I've been multiple times and the discounts
you see online are applied also in the stores.
So as I mentioned 511 is offering you 15% off every purchase that you make but I do
want to say more often than not they have an even deeper discount especially around
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But if you use the code SHIELD15 you will get 15% off your order or in the stores every
time you make a purchase.
And if you want to hear more about 511, who they stand for and who works with them, listen
to episode 580 of Behind the Shield podcast with 511 regional director Will Ayers.
Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast as always my name is James Gearing and this week
it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show former tier 1 Navy SEAL, current contractor
and the author of American Mercenary Daniel Corbett.
Now in this conversation we discuss a host of topics from his early life, his journey
into the military, deploying to Iraq, Somali pirates, his transition into contracting,
spending 18 months awaiting trial in Serbia, military transition, seeking discomfort, the
aging athlete and so much more.
Before we get to this incredible conversation as I say every week, please just take a moment,
go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and
leave a rating.
Every single 5 star rating truly does elevate this podcast therefore making it easier for
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is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so I can get them to every
single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.
So with that being said, I introduce to you Daniel Corbett.
Enjoy.
Well Daniel, I want to start by saying two things.
Firstly to our mutual friend Ryan Parrott, thank you for connecting us and secondly I
want to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast today.
Awesome, thank you and thanks Birdman for connecting us.
So where on planet earth are we finding you this afternoon?
You are finding me in North Scottsdale, Arizona.
Beautiful.
Well I would love to start at the very beginning of your story so tell me where you were born
and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings?
I was born in Hawaii on the army base or I think it's an Air Force hospital, I'm not
sure, Tripler.
Anyways, I was born in Hawaii, my dad was in the army, was a heating, ventilation and
air conditioner mechanic guy.
Mom and dad met when they were super young, got married super young, have been together
ever since so from day one love was very abundant in the household.
Dad, soon I was born and at one years old we had left Hawaii so I tell people I was
born in Hawaii and they're like oh man, they start speaking to me, pigeon and referencing
all these things and I'm like bro, I left when I was one, sorry.
Oh whatever bro, I'm like sorry man.
So we left Hawaii, went to Arizona, that's where my brother was born three years later
and then from Arizona we went to Germany and we stayed there for about three years which
is pretty cool when I was there was the time when Berlin Wall came down so it was pretty
wild taking chartered school buses to school and having military police with their guns
and being briefed on IEDs like don't pick up boxes or jackets you see on the ground.
I was like okay whatever, at that age you don't really know, you just listen.
And mom was a full time housewife, tank carrier, me and my brother and my dad would go on two
week trips or one week or one month doing big army stuff.
And after three years in Germany we moved to Texas, was in Texas for a year and I think
at that time my dad's rate in the army was going to merge with another rate or something
and it was one of those deals where only 35 or 20% was going to be able to make rank and
the rest were going to be kind of capped and left behind and there was like an incentive
based program where if you just volunteered to get out you can break your EOS early and
they'll give you like 12, 20 grand whatever and no harm no foul.
My dad, you know at that time I was 12, my brother was 8, hadn't seen a whole lot of
us and he was like you know what I'm going to take the money, I don't have a plan but
I don't care.
And then we left Texas and we moved in with grandma and grandpa, my dad's parents for
about two months till I got a job at one of the school districts there doing the air conditioning
stuff and Northern California became home for the rest of my time from sixth grade on.
How was your dad's transition?
I mean obviously there's an assumption that the people who struggle are the ones that
saw combat but then you look at the statistics and it's actually not the case.
There's a lot of people that were behind the front line that still struggled when they
left their tribe that had been a part of for a long time.
What was his transition like specifically?
I think he hedged his bets pretty good.
He hedged his situation very well because he's got two brothers and two sisters and
they all lived in the same area, mom and dad were there so he had his tribe.
He had his tribe and he left the military for a big purpose which was his wife and two
kids.
So he didn't have that gap of trying to find his new tribe or having to seek out friends
or anything.
It was all right there in his family and the friends he has now are still the friends he
had in high school.
They're all in the same Northern California area so he kind of went from one tribe to
the military to another tribe and back to his original tribe when he got out.
And I've noticed that too.
I see the military is really good not only with people thinking that that's their tribe
and it is but people identifying themselves as what they do while they're in the military.
Or if he had two brothers the same age and one goes and stocks groceries at a grocery
store for four years and one joins the military for four years.
The guy who stocks groceries for four years doesn't think his identity is gone when he
quit stocking groceries.
You know like oh I'm the grocery man but for some reason the military you know I don't
know if it's like genius marketing or what but we attach ourselves to that job regardless
of what it is.
Or people on the outside some do but most guys are like no that's just what I did for
work.
Do you think that's because you know certainly what you did and partially what I did they
want to break you down.
You know you take an 18 year old Marine you know and the boot campers decide to kind of
make that canvas blank again and then rebuild them.
Do you think that's needed however also the root cause of why there's more identity crisis
in uniform?
I think so.
I think also I was very young when I joined I'm sure most people are very young when they
join and it just so happens when you find out who you are.
You know I'm this kind of guy I believe in these things.
This is what I like this is what I don't like these are my moral you know go no go criteria.
That happens at a young man's age for me at least was like 22, 23 like kids is kind of
who I am and then obviously two years after that you look back at yourself and like you
didn't know anything you know and I still to this day do this year by year right.
But that happens around the early 20s I would say for young men and they just happen to
be in the military so they attach it to that also or the guy stopped from groceries doesn't
attach himself to that and it doesn't have that like coming of age experience as to who
he really is after high school after leaving mom and dad.
Okay who am I?
Who are my friends?
What do I really like?
What was I doing just to appease family?
What do I really care about?
And that happens and it just so happens to happen when guys are in the military for the
most part that age demographic fits.
We end up obviously being incredibly you know high performing tactical athlete when it came
to the Navy.
When you were in the school age what were you playing and doing then?
Big time high school football.
Northern California was straight out of Friday Night Lights.
That was the way out from my small farm town.
It was we had one guy go to UCLA some other guys go to some other big schools and the
way it was Max Squat, Max Bench and Run Your Forty time and try to make it.
And I was getting looked at for a while and you know that was a path where I had to make
a decision is this going to be my path but I stopped growing.
In eighth grade I was 5'10, 170.
I'm 5'10, 170 now so I kind of stopped right.
But I had the beard and everyone's like oh he's going to be a monster.
Everyone caught up and then passed me very very soon in high school and I kept getting
hurt.
I said man I don't know if this is it and then I kind of transitioned to running cross
country and doing endurance sports in my own triathlons and half marathons.
I always ask people this because most people have done some sort of individual sport even
obviously on track you're on a team or cross country on a team but it's you against the
voice in your mind ultimately and yet you've got football where arguably you can sandbag
and the team might still win.
There's not as much pressure on the individual performance.
Obviously the goal is to have both.
When you look back at the individual sports you played and then the team sports that you
played how did each of those experiences factor into your success in the Navy?
The team sports obviously the team dynamic right.
A good plan now is better than a perfect plan that's never executed right.
It's like knowing all that stuff, managing personalities, knowing when to follow, knowing
when to lead, swallowing your pride, not just turning back to someone who's struggling with
something because you get the whole generic cheesy phrases you're only as strong as your
weakest link but it's true.
So seeing all that firsthand and not just in theory in practical application on the
field.
So definitely the teamwork dynamics and then the endurance sports the individual ones I
call it you know going to that place in your mind and for me it's a room.
Guys that go into BUDs that weren't endurance athletes or never been in that room never
had to go to that place when you first open that door in your mind and go in that room
it's cold it's scary it's a foreign new place but if you can put yourself in situations
where you go into that room often then you can clean it up a little bit build a fireplace
in there a rug a couch.
So my room where I need to go in my head when things get tough I mean it is it is decked
out it is super nice because I spend a lot of time in there and I think those endurance
sports you spend a lot of time in that space in your head and for me it's that picture
a room that is now very furnished very comfortable.
One of the issues I see in my profession is a lot of guys will look back and say oh I
was in my best shape of my life when I was in the fire academy you know and and we don't
have physical standards you know most fire departments do not have a standard that you
have to adhere to year in year out.
So the most diligent obviously keep themselves in great shape and they do all the way through
to when they retire the least diligent you know breathe a sigh of relief when they leave
the fire academy and then every year they have to get new pants because they're getting
bigger and bigger.
One of the scariest things to me is if you haven't been in that room and it's still cold
and there's still cobwebs in there and then you get a fire and you've got to climb 10
stories or 20 stories with 100 pounds of gear and then go in and get a kid you're not going
to be able to perform.
So to me it was less about the physicality and more about being in that pain cave.
The last time I was in a horrible place in a red line workout was three days ago was
five days ago versus three or five or ten years ago.
What is your kind of philosophy on that principle as you progress through your career maintaining
that suffering in your training?
I have one leg up I would say in most people I enjoy it.
I enjoy seeing where my limits are I enjoy not only the result but I enjoy the process
I enjoy the day to day to get there and I have to admit when I left SEAL training you
know I wouldn't say I have a problem with authority but I was so just it had ruined
camping for me it had ruined the water for me it had ruined running for me and I'll admit
I wasn't in the best shape I'm in way better shape now than I've ever been because I know
the importance of it especially you know getting phone calls and doing jobs on a moment's notice
you got to stay ready it's not about getting ready.
The importance of the physical aspect to me that's not even it's not even a conversation
if you have a job that's demanding like that is not even a conversation you should not
be buying new pants every year like that is a given because that is so simple and so easy
to do that's just lifestyle and small decisions every day.
So to me the physical stuff that just needs to happen like I don't even don't even show
up and talk to me unless it's done and then let's go with the other stuff let's go start
making that room in your mind nice and comfortable nice and furnished you know let's make frequent
trips there you know one three times a week right so you don't kill yourself but you know
I like it there it's fun it's where everything's quiet I'm not worried about taxes or my phone
going off or emails it's my own little fortress of solitude.
What about career aspirations when you were going through high school obviously you were
considering football were there any other kind of prospects that you were thinking back
then or were you already thinking of the military?
I was so young and having such a good time in high school I mean I was good with I was
good with girls I was a star athlete and it was great and I never even thought life existed
out of high school you know I was just like this is great and then one year in cross country
the assistant cross country coach said hey what are you doing after?
I'm like after what after practice he's like no after high school you idiot and that's
when it clicked I'm like oh shit I have to do something after this and it'd go on forever
fuck I don't know and I don't come from a family of academic students like oh you're
gonna go to Yale like your dad like that was not a thing in my household he goes okay the
next day he brings me a VHS tape history channel Navy Seals and it showed all the cool training
talked about the 200 to 1 kill death ratio in Vietnam said it was the hardest training
in the world and then when they interviewed one of the seals they said what makes you
guys so good?
The guy replied it's not that we're good it's just that everyone else just sucks okay that's
cool that's cool I like this I can get down with that and I was always pretty intelligent
I was put in some trials like super smart after school programs it was fun it was stimulating
but the people you know they're nerds which is good I love them but like I wasn't trying
to go party with them so I didn't really fit in there and then I'd go hang out with the
football guys but they're you know their their focus was like really really right in front
of their faces like let's get drunk and party I'm good with that too but there was there
was nothing mentally stimulating outside of that so I was like fuck where do I go and
then when I saw that documentary it seemed like okay these guys are crushing it on the
physical side and they also seem super intelligent let's let's go there that seems like that's
gonna cover all the bases for me.
Well you mentioned already you know furnishing this little room in your mind I've obviously
had a lot of a lot of people from the SEAL community now and other special forces groups
and the I think the big myth that the average person thinks you know myself included until
I started doing this was that what is the uber athletes that get through you know Hell
Week or BUDs or whatever it is and then you start hearing and it's not you know it's a
spectrum of people and a lot of people you know pointing out that person's definitely
going to get through and they don't or vice versa so with you specifically I mean you
said you kind of you know physically stopped growing at 170 what was it about your physicality
and your your mental element that allowed you to progress through the selection process
when so many people rang the bell?
I think well for one like you're saying the run times aren't crazy like a high school
cross-country kid would crush the runs right a high school swimmer would crush the runs
so the times you don't they're not Olympic times they're hard but they're not unachievable
and I think I got very lucky the way like a special forces body 510 170 185 like on
the obstacle course you're like that kind of that perfect height perfect weight you're
not too lanky you're not too short so kind of lucky there and then I think a lot of the
guys who quit are guys who never even had a key to that door in their mind or didn't
even know that room was in there and they had to go in there the first time and it's
it's the first time you go there it's scary you know it's cold it's dark like you said
there's cobwebs your roaches across the floor like wow and I think the guys who've been
there the water polo guys the wrestlers the endurance guys they tap into that every day
at wrestling practice I did wrestling for one year and I was like holy shit that's one
of the hardest things I ever did I think the people who have that room built furnished
comfortable in their mind they've been there multiple times before they get to Bud's have
a way better chance and the guys who've never gone there maybe they'll get through but I
haven't seen it now am I right in understanding that you were assigned to five around the
same time that Jocko and Leif and some of those guys were in I think I was after them
okay so because I know you deployed to Iraq first so I on all these conversations I know
there's a lot of war stories and you know there's things certainly that your community
can't or won't talk about so the way I like to approach you know the the sailors experience
in this case is not so much from the specific you know things that you saw and did in war
but more with the human experience so the first one I always ask was there a point
regardless of the politics that sent you to wherever you were deployed that you witnessed
atrocities and realized that there were some horrific people that needed to be taken care
of oh yeah 100% you know the politics of why we go to war and you know did this guy really
have these or whatever that's way too far removed from me and I was very junior guy
and it's not even my realm and I wouldn't even know what to do with the information
if I had it all but yeah we've seen guys you know decapitated heads in fridges yeah
what about the other side of the coin I think we because the reason I asked this question
I didn't preface it I normally do you know when we're back home the civilians the first
responders everyone else who's not wearing a military uniform we get a very polarized
view of war it's either let God's you know kill them all let God sort them out or they're
all baby killers you know depending on which channel you've chosen to turn to but obviously
there's the boys and girls arguably that we send overseas to fight for our country you
know they're the ones that we should be asking so you know that one side is obviously again
like I said the the horrors of war but the other side which you also don't hear is the
kindness and compassion that people you know witness on the battlefield so what about moments
of that you know that we've heard so many stories of military vets taking care of local
animals you know building schools I mean all these things that just don't seem to make
the press what were some of the the things you remember as far as kindness and compassion
were you wearing the uniform well first off we're going into the polarizing of the war
of war itself I think during World War two when there's a trench and you have one unit
that looks like this in the order this uniform and then we are on this side like it's very
easy right you're bad we're good and they're saying well no you're bad we're good when
you start doing like the whole global war on terrorism and you're not at war with the
country you're at war with groups within the country and they're at war with each other
and they're not uniforms like it's already hyper nuanced and very gray so for people
to say oh you're all bad you're all good now you're getting very binary to the group of
people that are in this very nuanced very gray situation it doesn't make sense you need
to treat that very nuanced and very gray and give the people that are over there doing
it that same lateral movement and wiggle room as far as the whole compassion stuff yeah
I've seen guys adopt dogs I've seen churches and that churches schools being built that
wasn't my thing I wasn't there to do that if I wanted to do that I want to join the
Peace Corps or something or volunteer to church I was there no I didn't I didn't go through
some sort of animal psychology course and buds nor any carpentry schools I went to shoot
guns so what made you make a decision to challenge yourself yet again and and enter dev group
my best friend at the time was screening and he's like hey you want to scream with me I
was at church and this is before all the attention a lot of attention has been put on the SEAL
teams and I think there were some guys senior to me and my team that had previously screened
for dev group and didn't get picked up so I kind of knew about it I really didn't even
know about the program or the command and if I heard anything about it it's very negative
because I think there were some bitter individuals that were like fuck that place blah blah blah
so it was never an aspiration of mine really and then my buddy told me he was going to
try out he said I should so what I got to do he had to go see the Master Chief walk
in go see the Master Chief and he said hey I was actually looking for you I want you
to do this I was gonna ask you I was like oh perfect so filled out the packet and then
when their staff came over to do the screening on the west coast was lined up ready to go
and again same question as before what was it because now you're you know a tier one
within an already elite team what was it mentally physically that allows you to succeed in that
selection process same thing can I tell guys this all the time I've seen guys this is after
my time at that command I'll see you guys getting ready after they've been selected
they've been picked up and they go oh I'm gonna start doing yoga I'm gonna go vegan
with carnivore why don't change anything don't change anything they asked you to come because
you're doing something right don't stop being you once you get there yeah maybe don't go
out till 2 a.m. every morning and eat more for breakfast in the Snickers bar and monster
maybe that's not the best way but you've been running on that for like five years now and
crushing it now's not the time to change it or try to clean it up like just keep going
hold your course and then when you get through and you want to perform better or change your
lifestyle do it then unless unless you're doing something super detrimental okay yeah
change it as soon as possible but just stay in the course they asked you to come for a
reason why would you change what you've been doing it doesn't make any sense again you're
talking about organizations that you know are secret for a reason so I'm not even gonna
address you know any of the things that you did but I think where there's a lot of value
to the comparison is the innovation that I've heard from some of your your fellow team members
that you're allowed to kind of forge in that position you know trying to find the latest
training and equipment and those kind of things talk to me about that philosophy specifically
because my profession in the fire service a lot of us are taking classes on using vacation
days and paying out of our own pocket just to get better at rope rescue or extrication
so I would argue we're on the other side of this what I would love to see is my community
ultimately when we fix a lot of the glaring issues really embracing that the innovation
I mean we still wear pillows for gloves for example our radios still don't even work in
half the buildings that we go into yet people can go to space you know I mean so there's
a big disconnect so what what did you see in that community as far as your ability to
really you know explore the outer areas to find the very very best techniques training
and equipment for your your men that starts day one of bugs it's that free thinking thinking
outside the box mentality is developed it's developed and fostered from day one prime
example we're doing night rock portage we have to do the little ibf on the boats on
the rocks from the hotel dell it's night it's winter big waves and we're standing there
with the boats in our head and the structure goes you guys can tell me what time it is
within two minutes your boat crew is secure you're done okay the officer my boat crew
since hey quarter come with me you've run over to where it's all taped off and people
are watching you know I went with them swim buddy six foot roll ran over saw two people
standing there hey what time is it it's 8 52 are you sure yes it's 8 52 project run back
who the instructor so and so it's 8 52 and he was like okay like he liked that we did
that he liked that we figured out a way to really figure out this time while maintaining
our six foot distance to our swim buddy and like we did it you can see the gears turning
because he I think he wanted us to just shoot in the dark and yes and we didn't get hammered
for doing that we got praised for it so it was like think outside the box and I think
a lot of units are different I think my my dad would bring home the army booklets they're
really cool sketch and there was one for everything for every little thing there was an instruction
manual how to do this how to do that was cool but it also showed some instructor that unless
you read it and it didn't come and it came from this book you couldn't do something outside
that and you can't write a little pamphlet for everything you might come across in war
so that mentality all the way through buds and if you get a good SEAL team you know they
don't this is how we've always done it blah blah blah and I didn't get that I got hey
what do you think as a new guy me I'm like oh I think we should come in from the north
because it's a good idea we're gonna do that and you're like wow I'm a new guy and you
guys you're gonna take this on board all right hey plan the route I'm planning the route
oh sweet so my first platoon before I even got to SEAL team six was all about that and
when you get to SEAL team six even more so like what do you guys think here's your target
deck how do you want to hit this how do you want to do this how do you want to go about
so that's where I think a lot of people are confused when guys transition out they go
oh you're a rank-and-file corporate guy let's get you a rank-and-file corporate job and
I go no no these guys are creative these guys are artists we're left-brained okay and they're
like wait but that doesn't make any sense but should military guys order wake up at
this time and go to chow at this time I'm like some but in essence what we do is create
solutions to these asymmetrical problems they're like oh that makes sense so yes from buds
all the way through my time at SEAL team five and through selection and even being at the
command at SEAL team six was all about what do you guys think what do you want to do what
if we did this oh shit let's try it it was good it was great what are the mistakes that
other organizations are making so for example what I've seen I've worked for an excellent
fire department Anaheim California and the training was extremely high you know the culture
promoted fitness you didn't have to have standards because almost all of us were in great shape
and there was a lot of trust so a lot of the training was run by firefighters engineers
you know captains the lower ranks conversely the last place I worked at there was zero
training zero standards and the micromanaging ego driven environment was completely toxic
so I got to see kind of both sides I would argue one of the best departments in the country
and one of the worst the way that you move forward obviously is a high level of training
and then like you said that the trust allowing these professionals that you've hired that
are wearing a badge to do the job that they've been trained to do have you been exposed to
this other side in responder professions that you worked alongside and if so what would
you say to the first responder professions to maybe start fostering the kind of environment
that you were trained in yeah there's things you can control and there's things you can't
right I can't speak to any other units in detail because I don't really know their training
cycle but I will hear guys be like oh I've been to this school I've been to freefall
school on jump all the time from a different branch of the military I go oh cool they're
like well I'm the only one and I did it 10 years ago so not having cyclical training
you know because in SEAL teams you check in six months go to schools come back six month
work up hit every block boom boom boom and then you deploy and then when you come back
you do the same thing right we have that cyclical training now that might not be possible if
there's budget concerns right now everyone's gonna get a lot of the right budget and time
to do that and then the most critical obviously is culture and that is like the biggest butterfly
effect when you graduate buds and go to a SEAL team and we even within that team go
to your platoon if you have a fat lazy chief who's going through divorce and is just getting
drunk every night you're gonna have a shitty culture in that platoon if you have a chief
that's crushing it fitness let's fucking work out let's let's get more time in the range
and pushing that and it just breeds that culture and it's contagious and it's contagious on
either end it can either be a cancer or it can be something good so culture from the
top is definitely huge and I've seen my fair share of leaders get the boot at the SEAL
teams for just not being leaders and the men not trusting them.
How do you maintain standards like through all these different kind of hats that you've
worn because I mean you've got obviously leadership failures in this particular example and or
fitness failures there really is no accountability in my profession and you again hope and I'm
being very you know compassionate with this I talk a lot about the environment that our
first responders work in and it sets them up for failure hands down the shifts they
work the mandatory overtime you're gonna get broken you're gonna get fat unless you are
uber diligent but you know you listen to not only just your community the ocean lifeguards
for example if you can't pass a swim test and do all the things you got to do then you're
not an ocean lifeguard anymore it's just that simple how have you you know how do you find
that excuse me how do you maintain those standards in your communities that maybe the first responder
professions can kind of start to learn from.
The easy answer is hardline I mean you show up to SEAL Team 6 first day selection and
you miss your push up by one push up or your run time at one second that's it so being
hardline on the standards right now no no good old boy hookups because you know he
was ex marine and we have a bunch of marines on our SWAT team so we'll give him another
pass or he's a big dude he doesn't need to pass a run by that much or at all so being
hardline on your standards and then like you were saying I have a buddy who is a police
officer in San Diego and you know there's a little bit of civil unrest going on and
he was working like 14 hour shifts and he sits in a car all day with body armor and
he doesn't have any way to keep food so yeah could he wake up early hit the gym meal prep
on his one day off yeah he could but how long can you maintain that with your day to day
being 14 hours in a car you know you're going to break eventually but you know I'm getting
McDonald's and then it happens so I'm you know totally spitballing here but for those
first responders type jobs, incentivize guys if you have a budget pay for their gym membership
you know do something instead of oh that's just the way it is and that's the worst thing
I hate that that statement oh that's just the way it's the way it is or that's the way
it's always been who cares doesn't mean it's right you know what I mean absolutely I always
say you know they stop putting kids up chimneys and then work in the factories yeah you know
because one day they realize this is wrong you know it's not simple you shouldn't be
doing this all right well then I know you transition to a training role as well shifting
away from my profession more towards the law enforcement side you talked about the cyclical
training and this is something you know that the skills that I learned as a firefighter
you know if I didn't keep practicing them they just would go especially ropes and knots
such as it's my tiny little brain would just struggle to keep it if I wasn't constantly
going over it what are you seeing as far as the weapons training in the law enforcement
side and again king for a day what should be happening to help our men and women in
uniform actually perform at the level that they're expected to first you need to fund
the police that's the first that's the first thing budget creates training opportunities
training opportunities create skill sets you know I've talked to police departments like
yeah we're allowed we're allotted like something crazy like 15 rounds a month or like something
like some stupid number of bullets they're allowed to use training which is crazy to
me because if I miss in Afghanistan I'm probably gonna hit a brick mud or a mud wall somewhere
the open desert or some mountain if NYPD misses and they're in Times Square you know what
I mean a lot of people standing around so I would want my police department guys to
be shooting super hard yeah absolutely and then from what I've heard and again I'm not
a cop but obviously I got a lot of friends in that profession worked alongside them for
14 years but what I hear is even the qualification a lot of times you're standing there a static
target in a range firing six shots and then you get a little check mark and then that's
it for six months or a year I did the sheepdog response with Tim Kennedy and that's you know
like a two-day introduction between the combat side and the shooting side but even that you're
moving and shooting and you know shooting from different positions so what about that
element you know the the training that they are getting at the moment is it you know what
should be the gold standard for you know an officer with a sidearm and a rifle as you
said that could be in a densely populated city so I teach some shooting out here in
Arizona and I bring an 85 pound kettlebell kettlebell out with a rope and you know I
make people get the heart rate up because if you think as even if you even if you're
a trained police officer or someone doing like a home defense situation if you think
it's gonna be this static on the range low-degree gun take your breath line up everything perfect
get your shot if someone breaks in them even my house at 3 a.m. my heart rate's going up
no and that's gonna affect everything your breathing goes up your sight picture might
move around a little bit and I think training train how you fight and you're never gonna
have a perpetrator with a gun you know seven yards away from you on the indoor range where
you get to load your magazine and you just wait for you to get ready I think you know
this is the whole the old adage train how you fight so you're not gonna fight indoors
on a gun range but the static target go shoot move and communicate go get your heart rate
up shoot move shoot from behind your car make radio calls know what that's like when you're
in a gunfight how do you get on your radio like really do a practical application yeah
there are some amazing videos of people are doing it right there's one I forget where
it was now one officer that pulls up and I think he takes one shot with a rifle but he's
again radioing it five yards or something he pulls out yeah exactly but then you have
you know just one that pops in my mind immediately you have one that was in things like a CVS
of Walgreens and the officer missed whoever he was trying to hit it went through a wall
and killed someone you know within that store you know now not blaming anyone I mean who
knows what that environment was like and how difficult that shot would have been but like
you said there are so many examples of success of well-trained officers but sadly on the
other side there are a lot of examples of where either communication or lack of training
have resulted in you know civilian death so were you in the trend the training position
what made you decide to pull the trigger as far as transitioning out of the military specifically
and then let's talk about going into the contracting side it'd been a while since I was in the
recruit the rear counselor's office so I went in and I said hey am I up for this big relishment
she's like no you missed it because you didn't do some paperwork shuffle that you had said
you were going to do later whatever so I missed a huge signing bonus and the war had slowly
started to get really political like hey you need to bring it went from five to like fifteen
partner force guys with you and then the Hilo that picks you up is going to drop off a team
of investigators from that country and see if everything went down it was all kosher
and you guys are on the clear and a lot of guys were like I don't want any part of this
like oh you know we need you to do a shooter statement right like guys were like we're
not doing no so between that and missing out on a big paycheck I said well that's it I'm
gonna get out and at that time I had no plans so I just got out and reached out to a couple
companies and started contracting on big container ships come down through the Suez Canal stand
on the bridgeway ride that for 20 days come home so how was that because you've still
gone from an elite tight-knit group to you know outside that group now was there any
jarring elements of that position yeah it sucked I'm thankful for the company for the
opportunity but you know the guys were some of the guys were like really old there are
some studs on there but there's like really old guys guys I couldn't even put their gear
together right and what am I doing and yeah I'm an AVCL that's been on the ocean a little
bit but being on the bridgeway in the middle of the ocean for like multiple days I'm like
dude this is not for me this is like the most lonely I've been in my entire life itself
yeah this isn't it this is not it and what was the threat that they were expecting pirates
okay yeah was that Somali specifically or from other Asian areas too you hit a certain
parallel if you get what it was you catch the boats on the south end the Suez Canal
take a little boat climb up a big ship get settled in and once we got past a certain
parallel I forget which one we would stand watch you know go get all the ports come back
through that was it obviously you know SEAL Team 6 is known for a specific rescue when
it comes to Somali pirates but it's been interesting hearing certain guests talk about the origin
story and again this isn't like apples to apples specifically but I had no idea that
the Somali coast was being overfished by a lot of other countries and that was creating
a lot of poverty in that nation did you ever get exposed to that or you know did you did
you see another side to simply the Hollywood or not the Hollywood even that one event specifically
which was a you know a hostage situation that had to be mitigated did you ever see the bigger
picture with that nation specifically no I mean that was a container ship it was a fish
they were doing a ransom job right yeah but I mean of the whole kind of piracy in general
was there a broader yeah there's poverty does poverty breed crime sure just don't fuck with
Americans I guess absolutely all right well then with that you're on ship so where did
where did that take you next did that a little bit and then I had to swallow some pride because
I'd seen so many guys leave the Navy and I oh I'm gonna go I'm gonna go to Wharton I'm
gonna get my MBA I'm gonna do this and do that and I saw a lot of guys come back you
know six months a year later now my man if I could I'm never doing that I'm never coming
back I'm gonna go blaze my own path did that contracting job about six out of months and
I was like man I'm really missing the teams missing my purpose so I called up the reserve
SEAL team on the West Coast SEAL team 17 I said hey what's up guys what do you think
come on over so I went to reserve SEAL teams and mobilized early so I can get on orders
which means you have a paycheck did a quick workup and deployed to Korea for six months
which was awesome came back and kept trying to go to schools because then reserves you
gotta kinda have to hustle and get yourself into schools and figure out which parts of
money you can use for schools so you're not taking all SEAL team 17's money and find schools
that the big Navy will pay for so you can go do that school so I was just doing that
hustle staying on orders getting paid learning new schools.
How was Korea?
I've had this conversation quite a lot recently I was just flying home to England a few weeks
ago and I saw a documentary about people who escaped North Korea and it shows some who
actually were successful and some who were arrested and then sent to the Gulag it was
horrendous but it illustrated how close Korea came to be completely overrun and how the
allied nations that came from the US and other countries literally saved South Korea and
then helped drive everyone back North and it's a shame that that generation gets such
little discussion when it talks about their service.
What was the perspective that you got in the six months that you were there at the time
that you were there?
Korea is like a city from the future when you first get there and I think it's because
when we landed there it was night time and we went straight to a bullet train and there
was all the neon lights and I was like oh my god this is crazy I felt like I was in
like a sci-fi show which is pretty cool.
I think a lot of the good that people did and you know some of the older generations
like hey you guys are awesome we remember what you guys did.
The Korean War wasn't that long ago but I think with the long-standing military bases
there you know there's something happens downtown or there's a car accident I think those started
to overshadow you know all the good we did a while ago during the war but all in all
my experience was great I worked with the South Korean SEALs and I was always curious
if other cultures special forces was like a thing was it like a vibe was it a scene
was like oh that guy's a this and in Korea very much so but oh you're UDT?
UDT is good and I'm like oh sweet awesome so like they had it was cool to see their
country have pride and then being UDT the UDT SEAL and the SEALs being very very prideful
in you know their job so it was cool to see that they had their own culture that was like
super honorable a lot of respect so that was fun.
Beautiful well walk me through then to Serbia and let's talk about that entire kind of mental
health nightmare that you endured.
Yeah so I was doing some other contracting and I was on a very light job if any job in
Serbia wrong place wrong time I'm at a house I get arrested and you know from that moment
it was just absurdity chaos confusion it was bananas so I get arrested at this house the
kids house I was staying at comes in he had left for the evening after he got a phone
call I don't speak Serbian at the time but no idea what he was doing 45 minutes later
he comes flying in his house handcuffed slams into the wall and I'm like what is going on
and I look over to my left and there's there's a nine millimeter pointer right at my temple
and I'm like what the fuck and I kind of focus at the person and it looks like a police uniform
but it looks like it was bought at Party City is it so shitty cheap I was like what and
then I hear that the magazine Springs rattle and then I kind of focus up and it's this
like 21 year old kid with a pistol at my head with his finger on the trigger terrified so
much that I can hear the gun rattling and I was like you're like after all I've been
through I hope this is now go so I'm getting yelled at Serbian and I just do you know I
thought this would be an international move regardless of language I just slowly put my
hands up I'm like this this I think this is the move to do got cuffed you know long story
short we were gonna have a party at this kid's house he got arrested trying to buy drugs
from a drug dealer and drug dealers have guns so there's gun drugs the drug dealer had a
friend in the kid's house I was that was there so those three got arrested in what I think
the name of the city they took the kid back to his house where I was and like you're American
I said yes you like guns something as much as the next guy like what's going on and all
right this is weird you're going to jail we go to police station for two three I think
not three or four days and I'm interrogated and they're like what do you do I'm like oh
I'm a defense contractor what qualifies you to do that I'm an exil oh and you're in Serbia
huh so like they just ran with it and they're like you're here to kill our president I said
who they said his name first and I don't know what that is no it's our president I'm like
no I'm not I don't know what the fuck you're talking about you know and then you know getting
interrogated and I spoke pretty good Russian at the time and the English translator was
not did not know any English and I shot in the dark I said maybe it's better we speak
in Russian if you guys know Russian and they just he's a spy he speaks Russian like they
just lost their minds so during the interrogation process there was a good cop that was that
understood he goes look dude I believe you I get it but I need you to know that this
is already to the newspapers and you're famous I'm like really so we go to the courthouse
we make initial statements judges like yeah I don't know what's going on you're going
to jail okay so go to jail wait for three months go to make an official statement again
at the small court they're like yeah you're good to go cool come back the guards like
come on all right start packing my stuff he's like no go back to visit your lawyer in the
meeting rooms lawyer says hey man after you left the judge got a call said you had to
be charged with something so buckle up it's gonna be a long time because there's four
of you in the case and four people in Serbia's organized crime so now they're looking at
this as an organized crime I'm like what yeah and my first room I was put in I was in there
with a guy who murdered his wife with a hammer a guy who's a professional kidnapped ransom
guy and then some kid from Croatia who's a terrorist and because I was in that room we
only had 30 days outside our room for a walk and it was just us and you know they're like
popping pills and you know the prison was giving pills to anybody who would take them
you know and they would stay at they'd stay up all night and he played his little radio
and one day you know after my after a couple nights of no sleep I just took his radio and
bounced off the ground shattered and the next day I was transferred out of that room thank
you so I finally got to a room we had an Aussie cocaine dealer we got busted doing a big big
deal a junkie and a state-sponsored killer so it was good there was order it was clean
and I got to go two hours a day outside my room not just 30 minutes and there's with
the whole block and it just you know first I didn't really have to like tap into my room
too much because I'm like okay you're gonna tell it that after April after the three months
I was there and then they said hey you're gonna be charged with something that's when
I needed to get comfortable in the room I've created in my mind right that's when I had
to really dig in and okay what can I do today that's in my control I can work out I can
make flashcards from my Russian Serbian dictionary and I could play chess I can get good at chess
like these are things I can control the rest I can't worry about like I can't do anything
about it yeah it sucks but there's no point in me focusing any energy on the things I
can't control so I just day to day like what can I do today to be better at so go to chess
make make 26 flashcards instead of 25 I did yesterday do one more push-up do one more
burpee and that went on until I think June or July and then a big lawyer had decided
to take on my case in the following week he was assassinated in the street so they came
in my room you know lift the jugs spread the cheese ripping everything apart and they thought
I had something to do with it in the front page in Serbian picture of the crime scene
superimposed photo of me lawyer killed because of seal though just and then the newspaper
just the hit the hit pieces kept rolling in though though every time I was up for house
arrest because everyone else my case had house arrest every time I was up for house arrest
even though there was no progression progress in my case at all there'd be a hit piece day
before a judge was gonna sign house arrest or not come out in the newspaper like very
coincidental timing right very nice for them finally after 11 months I was charged and
during that time you know I took you know not only working on the tangible skills like
learning Serbian or getting better at chess or working out you know you have a lot of
time in silence to yourself no phone barely any TV you know I was learning Serbian so
I wasn't able to have a whole lot of engagement with people right and you would start to have
these thoughts you'd have to have memories and some people are bad like I can't believe
I did that I hope that person doesn't hate me right okay let's dive into this so every
night I'd lay in bed for about two hours and just do a deep deep dive from my earliest
memories of everything I've ever done that wrong somebody and you know it was hard because
you know in my head I would ask them for forgiveness but at the same time you know that's up to
them to forgive me but for me to move forward and focus on my day-to-day mental health I
had to forgive myself for the things I've done that wrong people so I did that for like
ten months straight just everything I could even think of that I did that was bad wrong
hurt somebody I'd go do a little audit forgive myself and move on and I had to be really
mindful think about the good things I've done too like it's very easy to focus on the negative
so I did like a little soul cleansing every night I was in a Serbian prison you mentioned
the Aussie drug dealer his name wasn't James gearing was it his name was there was three
of them I think he might Christian Christian waters was one of them and Dave I'll look
it up yeah that was funny just the reason I asked when I first started this if you google
my name an Australian coke dealer came up called James gearing and a pedophile from
Manchester so yeah now if you google it luckily it's all the podcast stuff and they're all
buried down there somewhere but that's why I still be kind of funny if my namesake was
one of your prison maze yeah I looked up my name way before any of this and there was
one guy who's a weatherman in the UK so that's that's all I have I don't have any drug dealers
well back to you know your incarceration during this time what was being done or tried to
be done from the US side zero State Department came in and US embassy and he was just he
seemed so terrified even being there and he would ask me questions like hey how's the
food I'm like dude it's bad can you change it oh no why are you asking me these questions
what are you doing oh okay I'm like looking I think they're gonna charge me with something
since bullshit and he said well you know maybe plea deals not a bad idea there was a pedophile
in Indonesia and they gave him a plea deal and he didn't take it now he has a bunch of
years so why are you telling me about some pedophile in Indonesia what are you talking
about well I'm just saying and they just crumbled and even the guards were like dude the embassies
here like you're free this is stupid I'm like yeah awesome the Calvary's here USA Uncle
Sam let's go and they're like well you know I don't know what they're saying in the news
now my what the tablets and he would always come in with the Serbian national who worked
in the US embassy so they were a team and she was like I get it this is BS I'm sorry
this is happening to you but the American guy was like oh I don't know he was useless
guys like oh why didn't you sign any papers to let the military or someone help because
the people handing me papers were those people I didn't trust them I did not trust him at
all I signed the thing yes you can tell my mom and dad about what's going on but any
other papers I didn't trust him as far as I could through so I wasn't gonna sign anything
for that guy which is so funny because when you go to Sears school survive evade resist
escape you're taught like once the Red Cross comes or the US embassy comes like that's
good news you can really glean into them so boom US embassy comes and it was not good
news so now I'm totally in charge of what do I do and I pretty much told him to get
lost and I'll figure it out I had a wrongfully convicted 18 year old at the time on the show
Greg and very long story very short he was a star football player his parent though his
mother had got sick so they kind of moved closer to where the hospital was so he'd actually
stayed with a teammate a football teammate there was an outcry because the family had
a daycare and a little kid had said that Greg had touched me a complete abandonment of any
proper investigation he ends up getting put in prison for this crime so you can imagine
how he was received in this prison by the fellow you know prisoners ultimately has proven
completely innocent and they figured out that the friend that he stayed with was actually
the pedo that not only did that but also raped someone while Greg was in prison the biggest
thing though that was hard for him was just not getting into trouble while he was in prison
because you know that would just you know add to the sentence you already had now you're
in Serbia you've got some pretty dangerous people around you how were you able to to
not rock the boat I'm assuming that you were probably being you know preyed upon by certain
people while you were there surprisingly it was not the case I mean I had one incident
but it was like staged and it was I'll go into that but the newspaper said I was there
to kill the president the newspaper beat me to the prison by four days everyone in Serbian
prison inmates guards alike hate the Serbian president so when I showed up guys were saluting
me and we're like yeah I was like what's going on and I came to find out that's why and plus
that country is very homogeneous so there wasn't a whole lot of diversity that people
could stand behind and try to argue over which you know not that people should like oh I'm
this color you're that color you're this religion on that religion it's all pretty much the
same in that country so there wasn't any of that like as far as violence goes there was
a couple there one guy got killed two guys got killed but it's kind of an us-versus-them
mentality us is everyone in jail and them is the system right so even the two cocaine
mock is that were that are big in that area there's two guys in there and it's kind of
like you be easy I be easy let's get out of here and if you need to do stuff for back
in the streets let's go handle it because everyone's trying to get out and where I was
was like a holding prison for guys in court so no one wants to go to court and say you're
innocent good boy after you cut someone's neck with a tuna can and bled him out in the
court you know what I mean so everyone's trying to keep it pretty chill so what change you
didn't have a lot of support from the State Department obviously you're getting you know
constant highs and lows as far as expectations are being released what was that kind of light
at the end of the tunnel in the end then I got charged we finally had because the legally
they have to charge me in six months well they didn't charge me for 11 months I mean
there's rules and then if they're they're applied and adhere to is one thing so that
was the big victory being charged after 11 months for possession of a firearm possession
of a firearm and explosives and something else okay cool then another month later we
got a judge and it took a month to get a judge because no judge wanted my case because they
looked they said there's no evidence against the guy and the ministry the Minister of Defense
was saying oh he was here in their newspaper he was he wasn't here to shoot fish in the
Danube River with that pistol why didn't have a pistol right so now there's this external
pressure from the government to see something happen to me and you know the judge with the
oath they took to uphold justice is like there's nothing here so we finally got a judge and
in January a year after I was arrested was my first court date and in Serbia there's
no jury there's just one person to judge and the way court the court system is so backed
up there that the way it works is you go in opening statements that's it you just do your
opening statements and then you come back 30 days later to do the next part and then
30 days later for that part 30 days later for that part so trial took six months how
you remember what people were saying there's a 30 day gap between every presentation it's
it was so disorganized and I think once or twice I think once it was like court date
three or two and now I have like cool things look for a year you have nothing I had nothing
look forward to it was just an ambiguous time with no event to look forward to just sitting
and now I have 30 day okay opening statements okay examination so my next my second court
date you know getting the paddy wagon obviously I get my own paddy wagon because I'm dangerous
and I'm like Hannibal Lecter and then mp5s on me it was it was completely out of control
show up sit down judge gavels in words words words judge gavels out my lawyer's like yep
see you in a month so what's going on like you're interpreted and show up oh god okay
I said you can do you speak better English than anyone who's ever interpreted for me
during this whole process like can't I'm not for uh court certified oh man so that that
that day was probably like the biggest bummer because that set you back another month so
yeah that's how the court so I stood trial I stood trial in Serbian Court for six months
so how were you released ultimately what was the final verdict so the day of the verdict
I had the worst translator I ever had judge has the other three guys stand up reason their
sentence whatever and then me and then towards the end my interpreters like you can go I
said yeah but under what circumstances because I was sure they're gonna say guilty time served
right you can go and like we we appease our people that guilty and need to go home she's
I know you're you can go like but like what is she saying she said you're innocent okay
good and the judge looks at me she goes hey if we find you innocent of all charges I'm
sorry this happened to you hope this doesn't put a bad taste in Serbia for you you're gonna
be compensated for illegal fees mispay damages I was like okay go back to jail grab my shit
then I had to go to customs office because my visa had expired and I was like look man
I don't think the days I was a jail should go against it that's BS and I was getting
really argumentative because I did it's been there for 18 months I don't care I just I
was just acquitted and these guys are interrogating me again I'm like no their superior comes
in he's like how does seven days sound I said that's good I mean regardless I was gone in
two days anyways but I was I was feeling a little bit argumentative at the time understandably
so yeah see I stood trial and was acquitted so what was that homecoming like you've been
sitting in a Serbian jail for 18 months you know again still separated from your purpose
and your tribe and all the things what was that return for you it wasn't as as big as
one would think because my mind was never in jail right like I was never mentally in
prison and I always you know my family's so strong in love my friends are so strong in
love and I could just feel it and I always carry that with me every day in in prison
so but I saw mom dad and brother waiting for me at the airport it was just like another
day for me I don't know it wasn't it wasn't that big my biggest surprise was coming through
customs and there was like yeah welcome back like there was no like what were you doing
there I was like okay cool it was good to see everyone mom and dad were very related
as well as brother but it wasn't anything too crazy you know I was I was in the SEAL
teams I deployed you know I'd write on the back of my lawyer's paper or the embassy people's
paper during our visits like mom watch the movie Idiocracy don't worry that's what's
happening right now don't talk to anyone I love you guys don't worry about anything so
there was like one way communication going out to mom and dad and it's like a long shitty
deployment I guess right so you come back what made you decide to put pen and paper
and write American mercenary well I come back and 30 days later I go take another job so
I go fly to another country I get a call saying hey do you want to write a book and they said
no because I was still chasing the dragon of doing the job I was doing you know I was
like how could you go back and do that after what happened I'm like well cowboy doesn't
put writing if he gets fucked off right you learn and you get better and you keep going
okay that's a little different than going to prison for a team honestly yeah potato
potato so I get the call I say no because I want to keep chasing this dragon and the
dragon is now turning into a fine miss very very very far away and the writing on the
wall is just not there anymore get a call again it's like hey man I think this would
be a really good story really good book I said well I don't want to do a seal book I
don't want to just do I was in Buds I ran there was a log it was well there was coal
I don't want to say no I know that's fine all that stuff's been talked about like your
story and what you did after and the Serbia stuff your mentality I said okay I can get
behind that yeah so that's how that got started well I know what we had a brief chat before
we hit record you're very passionate about that transition and I think this is something
that I see jarring in the first responder professions as we touched on you know you
have tribe you have purpose you have you know this this this ingrained community the shared
suffering and then a lot of us whether it's promoting to achieve tests in a building somewhere
else or whether it's retirement or an injury or being fired you know now that person finds
himself alone and in our profession there is there no VA there's no you know medical
anything they just literally the door closes behind you and that's it your ID doesn't
work anymore so talk to me about that kind of principle through your eyes and the message
that you want to convey to people listening just because one tribe was your tribe at one
point doesn't mean you have to be monogamous to them right I have friends I play indoor
soccer with or used to before I ruptured my Achilles and you know they they played Dungeons
and Dragons right like they're not seals but we enjoy soccer together to branch out and
not be so married to the concept that it has to be your tank battalion or it has to be
your seal buddies because like they're not even seals anymore neither of you and you
live in Colorado and he lives in Texas right so so be a little bit brave branch out try
new things and explore because you'll find something yeah I don't think even with that
one dimension like I only like guns like really did you only like guns really there's nothing
else you like right.
What about the the employment side what I've seen in the fire services a lot of men and
women will transition out and then they'll teach at a fire academy in law enforcement
it seems to be the security work that people go to but as you touched on earlier with you
know a member of the teams it's not about fast roping and you know using a weapon it's
the the teamwork and the problem solving and you know the ability to work under fatigue
and suffering and all these other areas and I find a lot of our you know professions in
uniform feel so myopic when they leave and they're not really made fully aware of the
skill set that we have and the application in a thousand different ways and it could
be used.
I think that goes into what I was saying earlier too like I'm caught because when I was this
age I did it for so so long I had that moment where I realized who I was and now I'm this
I challenge people to ask themselves when they're 16 17 15 12 what else did you like
goes for that you don't have to be in in this realm things you don't have to stay there
is it safe yes I did it boom contract quick money right but don't sell yourself short
you're not that one dimension.
Absolutely.
All right well I want to go to some quick closing questions before I let you go.
The first one I love to ask we talked about your book are there any other books that you
love to recommend it can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated and
thus spoke Zarathustra by Nietzsche Ender's Game Meditations obviously and anything Dumas
Dumas Sofa.
Brilliant.
All right what about films and documentaries any of those that you love?
Snatch.
It's a good film.
So good.
Films documentaries I kind of I kind of been jumping on that true crime bus that I think
that's whenever to grab my mom I like you know when the history channel like World War
Two and color and all that like that's killer films.
I've been watching so many movies.
God I had just too many lists snatch is my all time favorite.
Brilliant.
All right well the next question then is there a person that you recommend to come on this
podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders military and associated professions of the
world.
Have you had Jeff Nichols on.
I have yeah yeah just been on several times.
He's like when you say that I'm like boom that's instantly to him.
Oh man I might have to get back to you on that one.
Yeah no problem at all I need to get Jeff back on again it's been a little while now
I had him and Catherine last time.
He's so smart and he has the science to back it up and he's so practical.
Yeah yeah and he takes the gloves off too.
I like the way he talks.
Oh yeah he doesn't hold back.
All right well then the very last question for you make sure everyone knows where to
find you and the book.
What do you do to decompress.
Man it worked out.
I run and I think I have mitigations in place I'm more preventative I don't really get
compressed you know so I kind of live my life to not be compressed so I don't really have
to like oh I need to decompress I need two hours after X-Files.
I'll go for a nice a nice 10 minute pace nice long run clear my head have a good playlist.
What about I mean you're not old but what about as you've watched yourself age as a
tactical athlete how has your training and rest and recovery changed as you've progressed
through this career if at all.
Yeah well October 31st or late October I was brought to you by Achilles playing football
soccer so that was an eye opener.
My buddy was a pro baseball player he's like nope he's retired now he's like 37 that's
it that's all you had.
I quit playing pickleball and tennis because of it like I can feel it.
So you know just because my mind wants to keep going that body is now starting to you
know my Achilles rupturing was more than just a subtle hint my body's screaming at me like
hey cool awesome you have the great mentality beautiful but we have 40 years on us so relax.
So I will still try to do things like when I was running recently after my it's been
seven months I can't kick as hard and get my heart rate up at pace so I'm like hey what
can I do I'll throw in a hoodie and it's 110.
So I can do I'm still trying to get to my room and you know add some paintings on the
wall in that room in my mind.
Just gotta be creative and maybe not go as hard.
What I found I'm just turned 50 and I had this realization that I'm not ever gonna be
as fit and strong as I was when I was younger.
Now I'm you know in great shape for 50 for the path that I want to be on but the focus
has gone to addressing all the things that I did to my body as a firefighter as a stunt
man as a you know martial artist and by addressing some of those injuries that's given me more
fitness more strength.
So not chasing the kind of you know 25 year old goal anymore and giving yourself some
grace but realizing that you'll actually be an exceptional athlete at the age that you're
at if you actually take it down one notch and focus on damage mitigation rather than
PRing that bench press that you were chasing you know 20 years ago.
I think my two goals now are maintenance just maintaining what I have now and not having
to ever buy clothes the next size.
That's it like if I get to accomplish that I'm good.
I can still do as many pull-ups as I like to do or run X amount of miles at the right
pace and still fit my clothes.
That to me is my new definition of success 40 years and plus.
Yeah I couldn't agree more.
Alright well then for people listening where can they find the book American Mercenary
and then where else can they find you on the web or social media?
American Mercenary is available pre-order through Amazon Barnes & Nobles Books A Million
I think Target Walmart.
If you go to the Hachette Book Group landing page it'll give you the drop down all the
options and you can find me at American Underscore Mercenary on Instagram and if you go on that
page there is a link to that landing page I talked about for the publishing company
with all the drop downs to you know purchase a book if you want or what type or from who.
So at American Underscore Mercenary on Instagram.
Beautiful.
Well Daniel I want to say thank you so much.
I mean there's certain people that come on the show that you know you're not going to
dive into specificities of what they did because it's classified and it's none of our business
but there are some really powerful parallels that I think we've been able to discuss today.
So, I want to thank you so so much for being so generous with your time and coming on the
Behind the Shield podcast.
Hey, awesome.
Thanks for having me.
Let me know when you want me back.
I'll be more than happy.