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This episode is sponsored by Transcend, a veteran owned and operated performance optimization company that I introduced recently as a sponsor on this show.

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Well, since then, I have actually been using my products and I've had incredible success.

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There was initial blood work that was extremely detailed, and based on that, they offered supplementation.

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So I began taking DHEA, BPC157 for inflammation, based on the fact that I've been a stump man and martial artist and a firefighter my whole life, lots of aches and pains,

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dihexer to help cognition after multiple punches to the head and shift work and peptides.

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Four months later, they did a detailed blood work again, and I was actually able to taper off two of the peptides because my body had responded so well to just one of them that it was optimized at that point.

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So I cannot speak highly enough of the immense range of supplementation that they offer, whether it's male health, female health, peptides to boost your own testosterone, which I would argue is needed by a lot of the fire service,

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or whether it's exogenous testosterone needed, especially after TBIs or advanced age.

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Now, as I mentioned before, the other side of this company is an altruistic arm called the Transcend Foundation,

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which is putting veterans and first responders through some of their protocols free of charge.

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Now, Transcend are also offering you the audience 10% off their protocols, and you can find that on JamesGearing.com under the Products tab.

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And if you want to hear more about Transcend and their story, listen to episode 808 with the founder Ernie Colling, or go to TranscendCompany.com.

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This episode is sponsored by a company I've literally been using for over 15 years now, and that is 511.

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Now, my introduction to their products began when I started wearing 511 uniforms years ago for Anaheim Fire Department.

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And since then, I have acquired a host of their backpacks and luggage, which have literally been around the world with me.

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The backpack where I keep all my recording equipment is a 511 backpack, and then most of my civilian gear, the clothes that I wear are also 511.

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Now, more recently, they've actually branched out into the brick and mortar stores.

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So, for example, Gainesville, where I do jiu-jitsu, has a beautiful 511 store.

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So if you are a fire department, a law enforcement agency, you now have access to an entire inventory of clothing and equipment in these 511 stores.

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Now, I've talked about the range of shoes they have and how important minimizing weight in our footwear is when it comes to our back health, knee health, etc.

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I've talked about their unique uniforms that are fitted for either male or female first responders.

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And then I want to highlight one new area, their CloudStrike packs.

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For those of you who enjoy hiking, this would even be an application, I believe, for the wildland community.

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They've created an ultralight pack now with a hydration system built in for rucking, running or other long distance events.

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Now, as always, 511 is offering you the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast.

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15% off every purchase that you make.

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So if you use the code SHIELD15, that's S-H-I-E-L-D-1-5 at 511tactical.com, you will get that 15% off every single time.

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So if you want to hear more about 511 and their origin story, go to episode 338 of Behind the Shield podcast with their CEO, Francisco Morales.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing, and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show the world's strongest firefighter and Ohio's strongest man, Marcus Waugh.

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Now, in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from his journey into law enforcement, working in the jail system, powerlifting, his path into the fire service, making the first responder family work with his wife as a firefighter in the same department, strong man training in the tactical athlete, his powerful spiritual moment that bolstered his faith, and so much more.

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Now, before we get to this amazing conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback, and leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library of well over 950 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Marcus Waugh.

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Enjoy.

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Well, Marcus, I want to say two things. Firstly, thank you to our mutual friend, Will, for making the introduction and secondly to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Thank you very much. I've been looking forward to this for a couple months now.

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Yeah, me too. Me too. Where on planet Earth are we finding you today?

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I'm in Tweedle, Ohio, in my home, in Delta, Ohio, which is about 20 minutes outside of Tweedle, out in the country.

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So my wife's from, I know it's not close to you, but she's from Ohio, but in the North Canton, Cleveland, so that part of the state.

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Yeah, it's gorgeous.

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About two hours away.

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So let's start the origin story then. Tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings.

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Okay, I was born here in Tweedle, Ohio.

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My father, Tom Waugh, my mother, Pam Waugh, were high school sweethearts.

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They grew up in Norwalk, Ohio, which is actually really close to Canton.

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The North Canton area. I have two siblings, a brother and a sister, both older than me.

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I'm the youngest and the biggest. My brother is small, my sister is small, but what they lack in size, they make up for, and just how fierce they are.

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It's a pretty cool dynamic, all of us together.

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Let's see here. Like I said, born and raised in Tweedle, Ohio, I ended up playing college football at the University of Cincinnati.

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I got a scholarship there, moved on and played a little bit professional in the arena league out in Chicago.

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Come from, my father, he played college football as well. He played for the Ohio State University.

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My mother, after high school, she kind of just followed my dad and went to cosmetology school in Columbus.

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They've been together for 49 years now, something that you don't really see anymore.

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But before my father, I come from a line of military. My grandfather was in the army. My great grandfather was in the military as well.

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So the military service kind of broke after my father, but I wanted to serve my community in some way after football was over.

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So that's why I chose to be a firefighter, and I've loved it ever since.

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I think it's important that our generation now and the older generation relays the World War II generation, because we've literally got a handful left.

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I'm about to share a video I found of one of my friends who's behind the rifle, and they sat with a 106-year-old French soldier, World War II veteran.

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That's an incredible voice. I know he was kind of perturbed at the way that some of the French were deemed as running away from it,

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because I'm sure there was obviously so much courage within the French army as well.

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Did you have any conversations with your grandfather about his service before he passed?

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I did. He actually fought in the Korean War, and he talked about mostly basic training. He talked about how hard that was.

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He always said how the generations now don't know how hard it was when he went through.

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He said I would have made a great soldier. I had two choices in high school. It was either get a football scholarship or go military.

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At that point in time, I didn't want to fight. I still wanted to serve, but I didn't want to fight.

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So I worked my butt off and ended up getting a scholarship to play football, but I still think it was one of my greatest regrets was not joining the military.

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I want to get some Korean veterans on here because it's funny. Literally a little animation was on social media a few weeks ago,

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and then I happened to watch a documentary on the plane on the Korean War, and that was actually where this animation was from.

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But they call it the Forgotten War. You've got your World War II vets and you've got your Vietnam vets.

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Obviously in between, we had a lot of incredibly courageous combat from our veterans back then, but Korea was almost completely overrun by North Korea.

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Literally the southeastern tip was the only bit that wasn't conquered, and it was the allied nations that came in and helped the South Koreans drive everyone back.

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This is, I think, a story we need to tell. Obviously we have more Korean vets than World War II vets, so we need to give them a voice as well.

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Absolutely. So going back to the siblings for a second, what age were you when, annoyingly as a younger brother, you were bigger and stronger than your older one?

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So my brother, he is 44. He was a senior in high school when I was a seventh grader, and that's when I finally took over him.

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I got all my dad's size. My dad was 6'2", you know, 265 pounds. By the time I was in seventh grade, I was already 5'11", 185 pounds.

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I thought I was a running back, so I was athletic. When that happened, my sister has always been tiny. She's like 5'120", silk and wet, but she was always super strong.

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My mom is only 5'1", so my mother got her jeans passed on my brother and my sister, and then everything about me is my dad other than my eyes.

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If I put glasses on, me and my dad are the same, like we're the same person. So one seventh grade hit, that's when I finally took over my brother, and wrestling kind of turned into I was winning now, not him.

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You must have been one of those kids that we see in the videos of why you shouldn't have contact when you're in middle school because there's that monster, that one guy on the team that looks like he's 57.

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Seventh grade is when they stopped having weight limits to run the ball, so that's when everything changed.

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So talk to me about that. What was your progression from first trying the sports as a younger kid through to arena ball?

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So football has been ingrained in my family. My grandfather played at Bowling Green State University here in Ohio, and my dad played for Ohio State, and I played for the University of Cincinnati.

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But having that family lineage of Division I college football being played in our family played a big role in my love for it and almost obsession for it.

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And with that obsession came my obsession for the weight room, just wanting to be bigger, stronger, faster than everybody else I could, and to put in that hard work to move on to the next level.

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So after high school was done, I did like six camps over the summer going into my senior year to get a scholarship.

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I finally got a scholarship offer from the University of Cincinnati and absolutely loved my time there.

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I played football. I played fullback and some linebacker. Did some great things there, won two championships and ended up going to two big time bowl games, one in Florida for the Orange Bowl and one in Louisiana for the Sugar Bowl, where we played at the University of Florida with Tim Tebow, if you know the name.

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We got absolutely crushed by him, but just being in that atmosphere was really cool and going against some elite athletes. And then I got a tryout with the San Francisco 49ers.

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They brought me on during the summertime. Didn't end up making the team, but my agent called right after I got let go and said, you know, the Arena Football League in Chicago, they want you to sign you.

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So I signed with them and that was like playing hockey on turf. It was a real small arena.

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They got the walls up so you could smash people into the walls.

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And I think football players are a little demented when it comes to one net physical contact and dealing out punishment.

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So it was one of the funnest years I ever had playing ball.

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But injuries caught up. I've had ACL surgery in my left leg, shoulder surgery, labor on my left shoulder.

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It was just time to stop. So once I stopped with my dogs playing in the background, once I got done with football was over.

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I still had this, you know, want to compete.

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And that's when a buddy of mine who's a powerlifter here in Toledo, by the name of Jason McNett, he said, hey, why don't you try powerlifting?

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And I got into powerlifting and absolutely loved it. So you're still pushing that pushing your body to limits that are that seem unobtainable.

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And then that kind of just blossomed into now going in the strongman.

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Going back to, you know, high school, college, one of the observations that I have when I first moved here and I've said this many times.

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So I apologize to people that heard me give this prologue or epilogue, whatever is the right word.

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I realized that there was a lot of Uncle Rico's and I mean that, you know, fondly I do.

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But these guys that were in their mid 20s, you know, maybe 30 and I would have, could have, should have if it wasn't for the ACL, the labor on the, you know, whatever it was.

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And when I look back at the UK, we didn't play at this high level.

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We didn't have weight rooms.

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Certainly when I was younger in schools.

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Now, some people obviously went on to play high level rugby and football, you know, soccer.

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But most of us just played.

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And I think that then carried over into adulthood.

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So you had pub leagues and local leagues and all these kind of things.

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And so grownups kept playing the sports that they played in school.

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What appeared to be the case, and it's always interesting getting athletes and coaches perspective of this, is that performance was eeked at such a high level in school and colleges in America.

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That sometimes that was actually at the detriment of the health and longevity of the athletes.

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What is your perspective through your journey?

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Just the fact that you see it now more than anywhere else is that the kids coming out of high school look like grown men.

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I played, I coached at the, at Amtey Wayne High School, which is a local high school here.

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When I was in school, like I was one of the biggest guys in the team at 225 pounds and 5 foot 11.

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Now I'm seeing kids 6 foot 6, 300 pound guys that run as fast as I was in high school.

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And you see that, and obviously that has, you know, your advances in diet and nutrition stuff, supplementation, and the weight room.

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Because the weight room wasn't even very, very big when I was in high school.

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It was just me and my dad lifting in our basement.

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That was my lifting program in high school.

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But I think seeing how fast these kids are excelling when it comes to their size, strength, and speed.

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I think the equipment hasn't caught up to it.

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And that's when you see a lot of longevity issues with, you know, concussions and ligaments being torn.

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Because the, you know, your quads are getting so big and so powerful, your ligaments haven't caught up yet because you're so young.

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You know, I think I read somewhere that your ligaments and your tendons don't really gain full strength until you're like in your late 20s and 30s.

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So these kids are getting so fast and so strong and so powerful so quickly that you're going to have those ligament tears, those tendon tears,

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and the muscles basically pulling off the freaking bone.

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It's crazy to see some of these injuries I've seen with some of these young kids.

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It's because of how fast they have accelerated in such a short period of time.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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It's interesting even from the other side, you know, you get the very, for lack of a better word, obese kids that are brick walls on a football field.

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But, you know, if the coach is telling them, oh, you know, keep eating, stay at that size,

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well, that's all well and good for you to win that season of games.

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What's that doing for that kid's health when they're 20, 30 years old?

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Are they going to be even bigger?

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And we see this sadly.

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There's a lot of big football players that were probably quite athletic when they were younger and now they're obese, you know, and they've got heart disease.

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So I think that there's a gray area, you know, there's a middle ground that you can eke performance and still glean longevity, still add health to a young person.

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But I think sometimes those lines are blurred and organizations are focused more on the win than on the holistic health of the child.

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I fully agree with that.

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There's a lot of short-term outcomes instead of long-term care for their athletes.

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They want the wins to make themselves look better and then it's a detriment to the kid.

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But you see a difference now coming to light where these coaches are really caring about their kids' longevity in the sport.

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And afterwards, too, like you see a couple of buddies I played with after college was over, you know, they slimmed down, they looked like whole different people.

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And they're doing great.

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They're running marathons and stuff like that.

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Me, I went the opposite way.

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I gained a little bit more weight, but I gained muscle to do stuff I like to do.

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Well, while we're on that subject, just a tangent, what I've noticed is the world's strongest man that I started watching when I was young.

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So Jeff Capes, for example, was one of the legends back then.

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Oh, yeah.

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But they were usually big boys as well, you know, big round boys, extremely strong.

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And then you see Eddie and some of these other ones now that reached this incredible peak.

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But then they're in this battle to regain their health.

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But then, you know, you got other athletes that seem to actually have been able to stay lean whilst they're still winning championships.

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So what have you seen as far as, I guess, body composition, for lack of a better word, and health within the strongman community specifically?

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Well, it's definitely making a switch before, you know, a lot of the events were more static strength.

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And so you're, you know, you're Brian Shaw, six foot nine, feel 400 pound guys who won it four times.

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I think the change started with Marius Pujanowski, who was only 290 pounds, but just 12 pack, just ripped dude.

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And now Mitchell Hooper, who is, because he was an Olympic lifter and turned strongman, stays lean, very explosive, very quick guy.

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And now he's winning a bunch of championships.

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And now with Tom Stolman, who just won it this last year, is a more leaner guy, more explosive guy.

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So I think strongman is changing from just not just static strength, but also now your strength endurance, which is helping the sport when it comes to longevity.

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Yeah, I'd love to get the Stolman brothers on one day.

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I think that'd be a fascinating conversation.

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The thick Scottish accents.

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All right, well, what about back to the school age, career aspirations?

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Obviously, you're excelling in football.

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Were you dreaming of becoming professional?

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Was there another career in mind as well?

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I'm always the dream to play in the NFL.

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I wanted to do that and I wanted to coach one day and be a teacher was actually the initial goal.

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When I got into college, I ended up taking exercise physiology and realized quickly that that major was going to be very tough for me in playing football.

179
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I was sitting in the front row of one of my classes and the teachers asking or professors asking, who here is pre-med?

180
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People were raising their hand.

181
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Who here is for physical therapy?

182
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People were raising their hand.

183
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I'm sitting in the front, as you're supposed to as a football player, is looking at me and goes, where are you?

184
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I'm like, exercise physiology.

185
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He goes, you're going to have a rough time.

186
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I'm like, oh, great.

187
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I ended up switching.

188
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Actually, a good friend of mine, a former coach of mine, Colin Botroll out in Arizona, I lived out there for a little bit.

189
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He was in the FBI and he was also in Bureau of Criminal Investigation for a while and he was a homicide detective.

190
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That really interested me, catching bad guys and stuff like that.

191
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I went into criminal justice after that with an emphasis in prison reform.

192
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I wanted to be a prison warden and help with prison reform.

193
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After I got done at a college, I was done playing football.

194
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I was doing some personal training.

195
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I ended up getting into the sheriff's office here in Lucas County in Tweed, Ohio.

196
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I was a sheriff's deputy for a little bit and working corrections in the jail.

197
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In five years of that, I was done.

198
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I lost all taste for the criminal justice field and found out the fire department was hiring.

199
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Got on there and that has been the greatest decision of my entire life.

200
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I had a guy on a couple of times now.

201
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We became friends, Tom Erbihard, and he was the governor of Bastoi Prison in Norway.

202
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That was one of the models.

203
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It's like a community.

204
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There are real murderers and violent criminals in these prisons.

205
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Obviously, Norway in itself, the culture is a little bit different.

206
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The way they looked at it was one day these people are going to move back into your street down the road.

207
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What can we do to maximize the chance that they don't go back to their behaviors?

208
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They had to live together, cook together, clean together.

209
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They didn't have their freedom.

210
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They're on an island, but apart from that, it was like a normal life.

211
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They could be educated on new trades. They could take classes, all these things.

212
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Their recidivism rate was so low.

213
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What was your perception of the lens that you had in the jails?

214
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Jail is always a pre-sentencing facility.

215
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I didn't work in the actual prison part.

216
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It was actually the county jail.

217
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I was in third shift booking, so you got all the guys that were fresh off the street, angry all the time.

218
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I was there for five years because I was a big guy.

219
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They wanted me there to be a deterrent for violence.

220
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It was just fighting every night.

221
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Guys drunk high off different things.

222
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They were riled up because they just got arrested.

223
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They wanted to take it out on me.

224
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I'm like, hey, I didn't book you in here.

225
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I'm just here to process you, get you to your court date, and you can either go to prison or go home.

226
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What's one of the two?

227
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Seeing that every night for five years, it takes the love out of it.

228
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My initial love for it was to – I hated the way that our prison system was set up to where you're just locked away for every single day.

229
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You're not going out anywhere.

230
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You're not learning anything.

231
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By the time you get out, you have no skills.

232
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You've been away for so long and you just right back to it, right back to crime again because you can't get a job because you don't have any skills.

233
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You just got out of prison.

234
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You were a felon most likely.

235
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I wanted to reform the prison system wherever I could to make it to where Norway is a great example of that.

236
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It was like a community.

237
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That's what I wanted it to be, where you actually have a sense of pride for yourself and what you're doing while you're serving your time.

238
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Then when you're done, you're actually productive in society.

239
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Yeah.

240
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I think it's amazing hearing most, not all, but most people in law enforcement, their perception of prisons, their perception of drug prohibition.

241
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Most of the people wearing the uniform, most people in the court system feel the same way.

242
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Like this is not working.

243
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It is not working.

244
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,400
But they say about insanity.

245
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,400
You're just expecting different results.

246
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,400
This is exactly the same with the fire service.

247
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,200
Why are we not fixing cancer and mental health problems?

248
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,200
Well, we're still working in the same way.

249
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,200
Worse now because of the hiring crisis.

250
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:16,200
But I digress.

251
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,200
I won't go down that road quite yet.

252
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:26,200
It's really amazing to hear all these voices because I feel like people that listen to this show and other podcasts and obviously watch documentaries,

253
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:33,200
you start layering on the truth rather than what the news is telling you or the propaganda from your department.

254
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:41,000
And I mean that again, fondly, but a fire department or police department is going to tell you we're tough on crime or whatever the slogan is.

255
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,000
But that's an empty gesture if it's just not working.

256
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,000
The war on drugs is an epic failure.

257
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:51,000
So I think it's really important that we hear voices like yours, the men and women that were boots on the ground.

258
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I appreciate that.

259
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:53,000
Thank you.

260
00:24:53,200 --> 00:25:00,000
So five years in the jail, which is interesting because I know a lot of the Californian departments, they have to do that first.

261
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,800
I think jail and or prison, I forget which one now, then they get to go out on the streets.

262
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:09,800
So it gives them a very interesting perspective on that world prior to patrolling.

263
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,800
What was it that made you take the switch from that to the fire service then?

264
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,800
The times I were out in the field, just the hate you got all the time.

265
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:20,800
I want to help people.

266
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:28,800
That's always something I've loved to do with coaching, with personal training, that kind of deal, mentoring kids in college.

267
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,600
I worked with the Boys and Girls Club of Cincinnati to just mentor kids.

268
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And that's what I wanted to do.

269
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,600
I wanted to make a difference in people's lives.

270
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,600
That's what I thought I was going to do with being a police officer.

271
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,600
And it was the exact opposite.

272
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,600
The second you got on the street, everyone's like, F you this.

273
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:43,600
They don't trust you.

274
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:44,600
They don't like you.

275
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,600
Even if you're nice to them coming up, they don't trust you.

276
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,600
And every time I saw a fire come up, everyone's like, oh, the firefighters are here.

277
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:51,600
This is great.

278
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:52,600
You're here to save us.

279
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:53,600
We love you.

280
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,600
I'm like, man, I picked the wrong field.

281
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,400
I'd rather get liked when I come on than getting yelled at.

282
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,400
So when I saw they were hiring, I took a test and ended up getting on my first chance.

283
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,400
And it was definitely a blessing.

284
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:12,400
I used to cringe when you'd work with some of those people in the fire service that were just dicks.

285
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,400
They just should have retired years ago because that was exactly that.

286
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,400
Most people admire us.

287
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:19,400
Most people like us.

288
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,400
Most people are glad to see us.

289
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:29,200
But then when someone goes and screws that up just with a bad attitude or arguably some mental health issues they haven't dealt with,

290
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:34,200
just be nauseating because, man, you're going to take us into the police world if you keep yapping like that.

291
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:35,200
Yeah, absolutely.

292
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:41,200
No, I think we talked about the mental issue stuff and mental problems that people have.

293
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,200
It's not talked about and it's not dealt with in the proper fashion.

294
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,200
And you take that stuff to the job with you.

295
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:49,200
It's 24 hours.

296
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:56,000
There's no reason why you can't get on your job 24 hours and work with your crew like a family and get through the day

297
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:03,000
and then afterwards not take that stuff home, to be able to leave it at work and to be able to talk about it

298
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,000
when you need to talk about it to get it off your chest.

299
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:14,000
So for so long it's been suck it up, buttercup, and fight through it, don't talk about it, be a man, whatever that means.

300
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:22,800
But it's gotten to a point where some people can't let it go and it affects their everyday life and affects their job life.

301
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:28,800
To where you get that miserable dude that has been on the job for 23 years and he hates being there

302
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,800
but he's there to collect a paycheck and it ruins it for the rest of us

303
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:37,800
because now the public sees that guy and thinks that's how all the firefighters are, unfortunately.

304
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,800
Well, even though I've seen this a lot locally, like the young guys see that guy and think,

305
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:47,600
well that's how you're supposed to be, now you've got some 23 year old acting like a 20 year salty vet so pissed off.

306
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,600
Dude, you've been working three years, what the fuck are you angry about?

307
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,600
Yeah, you should be happy to be here.

308
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:59,600
Yeah. Well, one of the things, the least discussed elements of mental health in our profession

309
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,600
is what happened before we ever put the uniform on.

310
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,600
For you, for example, you had five years in the jail and then prior to that you had a life.

311
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:14,400
When you look back at your formative years, were there any elements that would contribute to adding to the trauma

312
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,400
when you actually put the uniform on itself?

313
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:25,400
Oh, not really. I had a great mother and father who, my mother was always big on wearing your heart in your sleeve.

314
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,400
My dad was more of the, because he came from a military family,

315
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,400
he was a little bit more reserved when it came to that kind of stuff

316
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:38,200
but I never once felt that I wasn't valued or loved in my household.

317
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:43,200
I went through a little bit of trauma going through a divorce.

318
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:52,200
My ex was in the military but we ended up not working out

319
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,200
but my wife I found now, she's a firefighter as well

320
00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:01,200
and having that at home, it makes a difference when it comes to your mental health

321
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:06,000
where we both see the same things and we're able to talk about those things openly

322
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:11,000
and a lot of traumatic stuff that happens in the fire service that we don't talk about

323
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,000
and to be able to talk about it with somebody who understands it,

324
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,000
not just someone who can just listen, but someone who understands it and can say

325
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,000
I'm really sorry about that, I really know what you're going through.

326
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,000
It makes for a very happy household.

327
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:29,000
I think that's why ER nurses and firefighters and medics do well together

328
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,800
because it's a slightly different setting but the same kind of trauma.

329
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,800
Absolutely.

330
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,800
So you mentioned going back prior to the fire service,

331
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,800
you mentioned getting into powerlifting.

332
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,800
So walk me through your strength journey

333
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,800
and then how did that factor into your success as a firefighter?

334
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:54,800
So going through college was my first real introduction into an all-out weight program.

335
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:59,600
Programming, nutrition, that kind of deal like that.

336
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:05,600
And I was immediately addicted to that, the strength gains and stuff like that.

337
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:12,600
My max bench in college was 450, my max squat was 650,

338
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,600
and my max deadlift was around 550.

339
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,600
I've always been a better squatter than deadlifter for some unknown reason.

340
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,600
Everyone says they have a stronger deadlift and squat.

341
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:21,600
I'm the exact opposite.

342
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:27,400
But once I got into powerlifting and learning new techniques

343
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,400
and how to use my body more efficiently when it came to the lifts,

344
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:36,400
seeing those numbers jump up, back in 2020 I squatted 850 pounds raw

345
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,400
and benched 520 pounds raw and deadlifted 720 pounds raw.

346
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:46,400
And that feeling right there, seeing at 30, let's see on 36 now, 37 now,

347
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:48,400
38 now, oh my God.

348
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,200
I'm just aged two years right in front of me.

349
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:59,200
So 32 years old or 34 years old, squatting 850 pounds

350
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,200
and just that feeling of getting stronger and stronger

351
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,200
and learning new techniques and new ways of doing things

352
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,200
is an addiction when it comes to how you feel during those workouts

353
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,200
and seeing the difference in your body.

354
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,200
How did that factor in when you started doing the job, the academy

355
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,000
and the probationary year as far as working with the implements

356
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,000
that we have to on scene?

357
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,000
So I had to make a little bit of a switch when we got into the academy

358
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,000
because it was all push-ups, sit-ups and running.

359
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,000
But the second we got out of it and on the probation,

360
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,000
stuff we do, carrying the ladders and the different extracations

361
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,000
that we have to do.

362
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,000
My first week on the job actually, the probationary period,

363
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,000
I'm green but I want to work, I want to help

364
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,800
and we get a car extracation, they can't get the door open,

365
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,800
they can't get the door open and it's on the side.

366
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,800
So we knew it was shored up and stabilized

367
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,800
but I jumped on the top and actually dead lifted the door off.

368
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,800
Pulled back one side so we could get a better look into it

369
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,800
and that's when I really thought this is all the power lifting

370
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,800
finally coming to fruition, what I need to do.

371
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,800
So that was the first instance of where my power lifting

372
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,800
is really transferring over to the job.

373
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,800
But it wasn't until I got into Strongman

374
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,600
that I really found that full transition

375
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,600
into what it does for the job.

376
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,600
I've always said this, one example would be

377
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,600
an ejection where someone or a pedestrian ends up under a car.

378
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,600
I was talking to one of the road rescue gurus the other day

379
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,600
about the kind of overdone, sometimes in the fire service.

380
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,600
Now if someone's got no issues as far as being crushed

381
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,600
and breathing, you've got all the time in the world,

382
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,600
you set the airbags up, you set the cribbing up.

383
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,400
But there's other times, just like you see the cops

384
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,400
drag someone out of a car with their bare hands,

385
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,400
there's other times where you've just got to go into fast mode.

386
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,400
And I think that the ability to dead lift, for example,

387
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,400
would allow a crew to raise a car off someone

388
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,400
so that you can drag them out.

389
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,400
If they're being crushed, if it's on fire,

390
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,400
you don't have time to set up spreaders

391
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,400
and all these kind of things, you needed to get the person out.

392
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,400
So I think that that kind of raw strength,

393
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,400
kind of guerrilla ability sometimes

394
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,200
is just on a rapid extrication is needed.

395
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,200
Not just that, but when we get in,

396
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,200
we have a week after our one world's strongest firefighter,

397
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,200
we actually had a life safety fire

398
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,200
right down the street from our fire station

399
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,200
and there was two people in there.

400
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,200
One of them was a very plus size human being

401
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,200
and we would need multiple people in there

402
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,200
to grab them and get them out.

403
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,200
But with the job, I was able to get my arms underneath them

404
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,200
and just pull out as hard as I could

405
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,000
to drag them out without having really any more help needed.

406
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,000
And just that amount of time,

407
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,000
because full smoke, guys getting smoke inhalation,

408
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,000
he's already hypoxic, he's starting to talk,

409
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:53,000
getting gibberish and stuff like that,

410
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,000
and trying to fight us off him.

411
00:33:55,200 --> 00:34:00,000
So time is oxygen, time is brain activity,

412
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,000
that kind of deal, so to be able to get them out as fast as possible

413
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,000
and I attribute that to the Strongman stuff.

414
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,000
I love the Strongman movements

415
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,800
and I teach a free class here and I am not a Strongman competitor.

416
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,800
I'm not a Strongman compared to you, for example.

417
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,800
Your numbers, like my max deadlift is your bench press, for example,

418
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,800
or was your high school bench press.

419
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,800
However, I remember doing a video a while ago now

420
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,800
and I had, I think it was like exactly

421
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,800
kind of what you talked about with your bench press numbers,

422
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:29,800
about 400, 450 on a sled.

423
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,800
And it was just doing sled drags

424
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,800
and I love sled push drags, sandbag carries

425
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:35,800
because I think they're so functional.

426
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,600
But the comment was, I can pull my heaviest firefighter out of the fire.

427
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,600
The question is, can he pull me out?

428
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,600
You know, because it's, I mean, it's,

429
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,600
I want to be able to pull you out if we're partners.

430
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:52,600
But as you know, in some departments that don't hold fitness seriously

431
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,600
and allow a massive level of deconditioning,

432
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,600
that person becomes a liability

433
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:00,600
where they're struggling to get themselves out

434
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,600
and sure as hell wouldn't be able to extricate someone else.

435
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,400
Yeah, I love and hate our union.

436
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,400
I love our union because it takes care of us,

437
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,400
but I hate our union because we'll never have fitness standards

438
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,400
because they won't vote it in

439
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,400
because too many guys would probably fail it.

440
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,400
And it's sad to see because when I look at a firefighter

441
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,400
and I taught two academies ago,

442
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:27,400
I taught, I was the drill instructor when it came to physical fitness,

443
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,400
I wanted the guys to be able to pull me out.

444
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,400
If you can't pull me out or the biggest guy out,

445
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:32,400
what good are you?

446
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,200
I can carry you like a suitcase,

447
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,200
but if you can't pull me out, I'm going to die

448
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,200
and you have to tell my family that you can't get me out.

449
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,200
And for most of our stuff when we had to,

450
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,200
teaching rapid intervention training,

451
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,200
I would volunteer myself to go be the victim.

452
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,200
You got to pull me out as the down firefighter

453
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,200
because I need to know you can pull me out

454
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,200
if you're good enough to do this job.

455
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,200
Yeah, yeah, I think, I mean, this is such an important conversation.

456
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,200
I was actually thought of analogy the other day.

457
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,200
The lowering of standards in the fire service

458
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,000
would be no different than an ocean lifeguard organization saying,

459
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,000
as long as you can doggy paddle, you're good.

460
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,000
You know, absolutely insanity if you put it that way,

461
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:10,000
but that's exactly what we're doing.

462
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,000
You and I have got to put on 100 pounds of gear for a high rise strip,

463
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,000
climb 20 stories and then go to work

464
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,000
and then search for people and then advance hose lines.

465
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,000
And so it's not for everyone.

466
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,000
And the opposition of fitness standards drives me crazy

467
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,000
because if you imagine going to SAS selection or BUDS

468
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,800
and being like, yeah, this is kind of hard.

469
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,800
Can you can we just lower the standards?

470
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,800
You'd be thrown off the beach in a heartbeat.

471
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,800
You know, most elite fighting, most elite fighting force.

472
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,800
Can we not swim that far?

473
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:40,800
Exactly.

474
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,800
But we're the most elite, you know, rescue force in the US.

475
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:45,800
We're it.

476
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:46,800
You call 911.

477
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,800
We are who shows up.

478
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,800
And so, you know, you can't pull someone out of the line of fire

479
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,800
in Vegas or you can't make it up, you know, to halfway up the world

480
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,600
trade. I mean, then what good are you?

481
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:00,600
This is what's so maddening.

482
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,600
And the fact that we have organizations that beat their chests

483
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,600
and say that they're the greatest union in the country,

484
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,600
they can't even figure out getting a work week that needs to,

485
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,600
you know, that creates longevity and health and performance

486
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,600
or a fitness standard that promotes the ability

487
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,600
to use the tools that we have on the fire ground.

488
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,600
I find that fucking disgusting, to be honest.

489
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,600
Yeah. And I get that everyone on the service has their role.

490
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:29,400
My wife is five foot one, five foot two, 115 pounds.

491
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,400
But she's going up in the attic.

492
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,400
I'm throwing her in the attic and she's going to put out the attic

493
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:36,400
fire or she's going to go into a confined space.

494
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,400
My big ass is not going to get into any confined spaces anytime soon.

495
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,400
But I'll be a damn good anchor for that rope, though.

496
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:42,400
Yeah.

497
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,400
Well, I think this is a conversation I've had on here a lot.

498
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,400
When we talk about diversity in the fire service, of course,

499
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,400
you know, ignoring underserved populations is wrong.

500
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,200
And I think that the mentorship programs are exactly how we fix that.

501
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:00,200
We go into underserved populations and then we find the best candidates

502
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,200
that would become great firefighters, police officers, whatever it is.

503
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,200
But the other side of diversity is just like you said,

504
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,200
the small people that go over the wall, you know,

505
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,200
the large people that are there breaching a door

506
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:15,200
and then, you know, the kind female firefighter paramedic

507
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,200
that you need to put in the back with the domestic assault victim.

508
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,000
You know, there's got to be that personality and cultural diversity, too.

509
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,000
But those all still demand a level of performance.

510
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,000
And that's the missing part of the conversation.

511
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:29,000
Absolutely.

512
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,000
Yeah. Like I said, I'm all for, you know, everyone has their role.

513
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:37,000
But at least in your role, you better be damn good and damn good in shape to do it.

514
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,000
Let's talk dummies on the fire ground for a second.

515
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:41,000
This is another thing that's driving me crazy.

516
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,000
The worst case, my last department, they did a confined space drill

517
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,000
and they had a 30 pound, I think 30 or 60,

518
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,800
regardless, not human size dummy.

519
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,800
And now you think about the US and it's sad because I was just in.

520
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,800
Where was I? I forget now, but somewhere recently.

521
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,800
And I'm just looking around and male and female.

522
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,800
No one was really below 250, you know, most people.

523
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,800
And so we have these mannequins that we train in

524
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,800
and the heavy ones, arguably, are like 180.

525
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:08,800
Usually they're even lighter than that.

526
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,800
And again, I feel like that does a disservice to, you know,

527
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,800
I'm not expecting one person to one arm drag a 400 person,

528
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,600
you know, 400 pound person.

529
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,600
So if an average American is 250,

530
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,600
then maybe that evolution demands two of you going in there.

531
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,600
But I think that that's a real level of ignorance

532
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:31,600
when we underestimate what a, quote unquote,

533
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:33,600
casualty would be in training.

534
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:35,600
And I totally agree with you.

535
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,600
That's one thing that we made a point of the doing this last

536
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,600
Academy that we taught in is that we're going to use real people

537
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:44,600
as our victims to get them out.

538
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,400
When it comes to Denver drills, you know, getting a guy out of a window

539
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,400
when it goes to finding a down firefighter, it's one of us.

540
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:51,400
It's going to be one of us.

541
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,400
It's not going to be a small person.

542
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,400
We wear 100 pounds of gear, you know, as CBA, everything.

543
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,400
And you better be able to get us out in a timely manner

544
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,400
or find out how to get us with somebody else.

545
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,400
So problem solving.

546
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,400
And once again, you better get your butt in shape

547
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,400
because you're pulling a real person out, not a dummy.

548
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,400
If you were king for a day,

549
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,200
what would the fitness standards look like for the fire service?

550
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,200
I'm a big proponent of the push up parts.

551
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:20,200
Good.

552
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,200
I don't we don't run.

553
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:25,200
I think it should be some sort of stair

554
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:30,200
work in the you're on a stair stepper with 80 pound vest on.

555
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:31,200
You got to do it for so long.

556
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,200
That type of deal or a lot of push up things.

557
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,200
But I like it in gear, not just in by yourself because you once again

558
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,000
you're we're in 80 to 100 pounds a year.

559
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,000
You should be able to do push ups with that on.

560
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:50,000
And then some sort of drill with a sledgehammer,

561
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,000
that kind of deal with that moving either a heavy tire or something

562
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,000
like that, like acting like you're breaching a wall

563
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,000
or breaching a door to get in stuff like that.

564
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,000
That actually pertains to the job, not just running

565
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,000
because we don't we don't run very often, but we do do high rise.

566
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,000
So I think we should use the steps in that as well.

567
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:08,800
Yeah, 100 percent.

568
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:10,800
I think that's how you then avoid people.

569
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,800
People are always scared about lawsuits and making it fair.

570
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,800
Just use the things that we use.

571
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,800
If you got to move a ladder over here and then throw it

572
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,800
and then drag this hose and pull this dummy and climb these stairs

573
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,800
with a relative amount of gear on you, then no one can say it's not fair

574
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,800
because it's the very tools that are on your engine, your truck, whatever it is.

575
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,800
So we've already got the standardization simply in the tools

576
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:34,800
that we have to use every day.

577
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:38,600
A 24 foot extension ladder is a standard weight for most departments

578
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,600
if it's the metal ones, if you're not in San Francisco or somewhere.

579
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,600
So just create that standardization because then it doesn't matter

580
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,600
if you're black, white, gay, straight, male, female.

581
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,600
It divides people into the line that should be.

582
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:53,600
You either can or you can't.

583
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,600
And that's the only prejudice that actually has value in the fire service.

584
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,600
Yep, I 100 percent agree with that.

585
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,600
And the the different stuff we use, the different apparatus

586
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,400
we use, different equipment use has no bias.

587
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,400
No. And the people that we're going to rescue don't care what color we are,

588
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,400
who we sleep with, where we pray.

589
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,400
They just care if we're going to get there and get their kids out.

590
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:17,400
That would be very awkward coming in.

591
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:18,400
Oh, are you straight?

592
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,400
Yeah, I don't want you pulling me out of there.

593
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:21,400
I see a tattoo.

594
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,400
You need to get out of here.

595
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,400
All right. Well, with the Strongman, talk to me about how you transition

596
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:34,200
from powerlifting to Strongman and then what are you seeing as far as the value

597
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,200
of that training in the fire service?

598
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:45,200
I was powerlifting and my first Strongman meet I did was in 2017 called Battle of the Borders

599
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:50,200
in Mount Peleer, Ohio, which is another 40 minutes west here, right on the Indiana border.

600
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,200
And I figured I'd try it out because a buddy of mine I worked out with

601
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,000
at the gym I was at by the name of Mike Fortress, he was doing it.

602
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,000
And he was a strong man.

603
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,000
He goes, why don't you come out here, use your first one, have some fun with it.

604
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:04,000
I ended up winning.

605
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:05,000
So I ended up being very good at it.

606
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,000
And I really liked the movements we were doing.

607
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,000
We deadlifted a car, which was really cool.

608
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:15,000
We squatted with an axle on our back with big tires.

609
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:19,000
It was really cool to see, log press for the first time, then doing Atlas stones,

610
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:20,000
which I'd never done before.

611
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,000
But it's much more cool stuff to do, more fun.

612
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:29,800
And I realized while I was doing it, man, this is more functional strength,

613
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:34,800
more what we call farm boy strength, and full body strength,

614
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:39,800
not just a squat, deadlift, and a bench, but it's all those little muscles,

615
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,800
those little stabilizer muscles, and you're doing stuff for as many reps as you can

616
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:45,800
in a minute, not just one rep.

617
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,800
So now you're getting the cardio aspect into it and strength endurance into it.

618
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:53,600
This is our job, our job of picking dead weight up from the ground up to your chest,

619
00:43:53,800 --> 00:44:00,600
or deadlifting a car from the ground that's lifting something off the ground off of somebody.

620
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:07,600
Just seeing how, or feeling the movements and then knowing that it's retained to the job

621
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:13,600
more than I ever thought possible, that really got me that transition

622
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,600
of loving powerlifting to really loving strongman.

623
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,400
What about the cardio element?

624
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,400
I've had a few people from the strongman community and strongwoman community on the show

625
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:28,400
and if I'm remembering rightly, they kind of looked at the medley side of competition

626
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,400
to really forge that, as you said, muscular endurance.

627
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:37,400
Yeah. When you go into a fire and you're doing overhaul at the end,

628
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,400
you're pulling ceiling, you're breaking down walls, trying to find hot spots, stuff like that,

629
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,400
it is taxing. Your shoulders are destroyed.

630
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:45,400
You're breathing heavy.

631
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,200
It's, yes, forced air coming through your SCBA, but you're still sucking wind.

632
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:57,200
Or if you're in the initial fire attack, you're moving, advancing a fully charged hose line

633
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:01,200
that's 250 feet if you're doing the long bank through a house.

634
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,200
It's not light. It's not easy.

635
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,200
Or if it gets kinked, the hose gets kinked on a corner, you're sitting there yanking at it

636
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,200
or someone else is going to help you advance that line.

637
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,200
All those is that strength endurance part.

638
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:21,000
And feeling that with the medley stuff that you're doing, five different overhead presses,

639
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:26,000
straight shoulder work right there, you're pulling hose down or you're pulling ceiling down.

640
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:33,000
When you're having to do deadlifts for as many times as you can in a minute.

641
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:38,000
So one of my last competitions was 600 pound deadlift as many times as you can in a minute.

642
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:45,800
I ended up getting 12 reps and that's just that constant movement,

643
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:51,800
that constant strain on your body is what we do when a big emergency is happening.

644
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:57,800
What are you seeing when you travel around the country and you interact with fire departments?

645
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:05,800
What are you seeing as far as the more progressive fitness philosophy or culture in some areas?

646
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,600
And then what's the kind of opposite side of that?

647
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:13,600
So me and Will talked about this already because I asked him what kind of stuff they do at FDNY

648
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,600
and they're transitioning big into strongman stuff.

649
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,600
Even when it comes to their academies,

650
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:26,600
they've got guys out there with sledgehammers hitting these metal poles for as long as they can.

651
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,600
It goes down this rail line. It's so cool to watch them do it.

652
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,600
And they're doing sandbag stuff for deadlifts that pick up the dead weight.

653
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:39,400
Seeing that transition I think is going to be more beneficial to firefighters.

654
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:41,400
We're trying to do that here in Toledo.

655
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:46,400
My wife started a strongman group for the women of Toledo Fire

656
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,400
and she's got like six girls that come and work out with her

657
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:51,400
and just to see their strength gains.

658
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,400
My wife is once again 115 pounds maybe

659
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:59,400
and she just lifted 180 pound atlas stone to her chest.

660
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:00,400
Incredible.

661
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,400
Seeing how that's transitioning now to the fire department

662
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:07,200
or on the job is really cool.

663
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,200
But then you see the opposite side where you get the traditionalists where

664
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:14,200
oh we got to go out and run six miles today or run two miles today

665
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,200
and we'll just do some light bench and we'll do some stair stepper

666
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,200
or we'll just do the rower.

667
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:22,200
That's my workout for the day.

668
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,200
But yet these guys have no muscular endurance

669
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,200
when it comes to actually getting after it.

670
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,200
They're the first ones to walk out with a low air alarm because they're sucking wind.

671
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:36,000
When you mentioned the atlas stones, I did combat arts for a long time

672
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:41,000
and got rocked, got you know saw stars but never was knocked out.

673
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:45,000
The closest I've ever been to being knocked out was lifting a damn atlas stone.

674
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:51,000
I guess I just held my breath and the whole world went down to a tiny little tunnel

675
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,000
and I literally I sat down before I fell.

676
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,000
But yeah, I've never never had that before.

677
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:58,000
I bagled out like never before.

678
00:47:58,200 --> 00:47:59,000
It was crazy.

679
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:00,000
I think I did the sandbags.

680
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,800
I think just the nature of the stone and the fact it doesn't give a toll pushing on your chest.

681
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:05,800
I don't know.

682
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,800
But yeah, I literally knocked my ass out, my own ass out.

683
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,800
It's one of my favorite apparatuses to use those stones.

684
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,800
It's unforgiving and it tears up your forearms.

685
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,800
If you're not careful, like I said, you'll vagal out in a heartbeat

686
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,800
but it's that super dead awkward weight from the bottom

687
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,800
and just lift it up to a pedestal.

688
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:26,800
It's pretty cool.

689
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:27,800
What did I do wrong?

690
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,600
How do you avoid that vagal response when you're lifting?

691
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:31,600
Is it exhalation?

692
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,600
Yeah, so the initial pickup, you hold your breath.

693
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,600
When you lap it, you got to take a couple good breaths to get you going again

694
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,600
and then just a quick belly breathe instead of a chest breathe.

695
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,600
You press that Buddha belly out against your against your belt

696
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:46,600
and then lift.

697
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,600
My problem every time I vagal is when I take a chest breath instead of a belly breath.

698
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:51,600
That's probably what it was.

699
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:52,600
I had no belt as well.

700
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,600
All that blood rushes to the head.

701
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:57,400
Yeah, exactly.

702
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:59,400
I almost end up wearing a stone.

703
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:00,400
All right.

704
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:05,400
Well, the other thing that I found served me incredibly well was CrossFit for a long time.

705
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,400
And I've actually met the gym that I train at,

706
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:09,400
which if you're ever in this area, I got to get you there

707
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,400
because they've got a whole strongman competition they do every year as well.

708
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:13,400
Awesome.

709
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:17,400
But we've actually switched it switch now to the Wolf Brigade programming.

710
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,400
It's a lot more kettlebells and maces and that kind of thing.

711
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:26,200
But alongside both the training that I do and then I teach again,

712
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,200
it's not strongman competition training.

713
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:32,200
It's taking what you guys do and just applying it at a more of a weekend warrior level

714
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,200
that I think balances it out.

715
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,200
But whether it's CrossFit or even the Wolf Brigade,

716
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,200
the danger I think in the gym is you tend to just stand still,

717
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,200
whether you're deadlifting or pressing or swinging a kettlebell, whatever it is.

718
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,200
And what I loved about the sleds and sandbags

719
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,000
is you're actually carrying weight over distance.

720
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:53,000
And I think that that's a piece that's missing in a lot of programming.

721
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:54,000
Yes.

722
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,000
I've had a great coach for the last two years,

723
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,000
Coach Ben Pauley out of Rochester, Michigan.

724
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:05,000
He was a big powerlifting coach, but he has transitioned into strongman

725
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:10,000
and he's done some crazy things experimenting with me

726
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:12,000
when it comes to different movements.

727
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,000
And today when I go into the gym later on,

728
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:19,800
I'm doing sandbag front squats with a 350-pound sandbag on my chest.

729
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:21,800
So we'll see how that goes today.

730
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:27,800
But just the different ways of targeting different stabilizer muscles

731
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:29,800
and core strength.

732
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,800
The other day I had to do viper presses with a log,

733
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:35,800
eight sets of three with only 30 seconds rest in between.

734
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:37,800
I wanted to just murder myself.

735
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:39,800
Or I thought that one of those reps

736
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:41,800
where the log was going to come right down on my head

737
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:43,800
because I didn't have any more air.

738
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,600
But just the different things we're doing now.

739
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,600
It's basically what I feel like some of the strongman stuff we're doing now

740
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:56,600
is that it's CrossFit type programming, but with strongman events.

741
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,600
And I think the mixture of the two would be fantastic.

742
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,600
If you think about the new strongman that's coming in

743
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:04,600
is just really heavy CrossFit.

744
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:05,600
Yeah.

745
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,600
Have you ever heard of Julien Peneau from StrongFit?

746
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:10,600
Yep.

747
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:11,600
Yeah.

748
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:13,400
I actually trained with Julien years ago.

749
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,400
I heard him on barbell shrug, the original barbell shrug.

750
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:19,400
And was blown away again the way he was talking.

751
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:20,400
He's a mad genius.

752
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:24,400
He's going to come back on again talking about how now they're using movement

753
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:28,400
when it comes to trauma release and PTSD and all kinds of stuff.

754
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,400
But I was just amazed at the way he was talking.

755
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,400
And he talked about the weaknesses that the CrossFit community were creating.

756
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,400
The lack of development in the hamstrings and posterior chain

757
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,200
and the rear delts from all the kipping.

758
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,200
And it just made perfect sense to me.

759
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,200
And I'd actually had a back injury,

760
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,200
had rehab using a thing called foundation training,

761
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,200
which is a movement practice which is phenomenal.

762
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,200
And Julien was actually offering a free training session

763
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:58,200
if we could track down a Dragon Ball Z coffee cup that changed

764
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,200
when it got hot.

765
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,200
So I found one on some Chinese site and sent it to him.

766
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:07,200
And I happened to be going over to California to take foundation training's

767
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:11,000
because I was so impressed that it worked with me that I became an instructor.

768
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,000
But I did the training with him.

769
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:17,000
And that kind of again like the movement over distance,

770
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,000
not only from a strength conditioning point of view,

771
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,000
but also an analytical point of view.

772
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:26,000
And one of the big movements that he loves is the overhead yoke carry.

773
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,000
So your arms are completely extended.

774
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:30,000
And if you film that person from the back,

775
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,000
you can see if we're kicked over one way,

776
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,000
if one shoulder is higher than the other,

777
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:36,000
if the lats are engaging.

778
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,800
So I find a lot of that not only is great from the training side,

779
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:41,800
but also the diagnostic side.

780
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:48,800
Yeah, we're doing that with a bamboo earthquake bar with hanging weights.

781
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:50,800
And I'll hold it over my head and walk with it

782
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,800
and you can see where I need to be more stable or what's lacking.

783
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,800
So it's a lot really cool to be doing these movements

784
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,800
that I've never done before and actually working on deficiencies

785
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,800
and seeing how that it carries over to my competitions.

786
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:08,600
So talk to me about the progression in your training

787
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,600
because ultimately you ended up winning Ohio's Strongest Man

788
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:13,600
and then we'll get to obviously the Arnold Classic.

789
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,600
So what began to separate you from other strongman competitors

790
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:19,600
that allowed you to be so successful?

791
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:25,600
So back in 2022, I was teaching in the academy

792
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:31,600
and I ended up doing a charity flag football game,

793
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:33,600
speaking of weekend warriors.

794
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,400
I caught a football and went to plant

795
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:40,400
and totally ruptured my achilles, my right achilles, snapped it in half.

796
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:45,400
And I went to a surgeon, orthopedic surgeon,

797
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,400
a trauma surgeon by the name of Dr. Tank.

798
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:50,400
And he said, you know, I'm going to get you

799
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:52,400
so you can be a firefighter again,

800
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:56,400
but I don't know if you'll ever be able to compete again.

801
00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:00,400
Back in 20, so the early 2022,

802
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:02,400
I got third place in the World's Strongest Firefighter.

803
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,200
I haven't done anything else strongman since that.

804
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,200
And when he said I wouldn't be able to compete again,

805
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:12,200
that instantly started a fire in my brain

806
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,200
saying I'm going to prove you wrong, not just you wrong,

807
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:19,200
but everyone else saying that I shouldn't compete again.

808
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,200
I want to prove them wrong as well.

809
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:25,200
So that's when I hired Ben when we met through mutual friends.

810
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:30,200
And so what's supposed to be an eight month recovery,

811
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:32,000
I got back to work in three months

812
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,000
and I was training again in four months.

813
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:36,000
We had a plan.

814
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:38,000
We set a plan together saying

815
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:42,000
you're going to win Ohio Strongest Man in 2023 in August

816
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,000
and then in March of 2024,

817
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:47,000
you're going to win World's Strongest Firefighter.

818
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,000
And we stuck with that plan.

819
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:54,000
A lot of experimental exercises to get my leg right again.

820
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:58,000
A lot of single leg, a lot of stuff on bozu balls

821
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:02,800
and foam pads just to get just that,

822
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,800
the small muscles, stability, flexibility, that kind of thing.

823
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,800
And August came around and I won Ohio Strongest Man

824
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:11,800
and then a couple of months later

825
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,800
and that went in World's Strongest Firefighter.

826
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,800
I think it was a mixture of just sheer grit

827
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,800
and will to prove people wrong.

828
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:26,800
And to my faith, if I get emotional, I'm sorry.

829
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,600
I went to World's Strongest Firefighter in 2023.

830
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:34,600
I was invited to just watch because I couldn't compete in it.

831
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,600
And I don't know if you're a man of faith or not,

832
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,600
but I was standing there watching them

833
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:48,600
and I heard a whisper like someone was standing right next to me

834
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:54,400
and the whisper said, do you trust me?

835
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:59,400
Just literally like it was me and you talking right next to each other.

836
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:01,400
There was a whisper that said, do you trust me?

837
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,400
And I literally looked and turned around and didn't see anybody.

838
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:09,400
And I've always been a religious person,

839
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:13,400
but not really too into it.

840
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,400
But from that moment on, I just gave trust

841
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,200
and gave it to him.

842
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:21,200
Rest is history.

843
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,200
That's amazing.

844
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,200
I mean, the number of people I've heard that have had that voice

845
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,200
and I am very, I have a deep faith.

846
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:31,200
I don't subscribe to a specific religion,

847
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,200
but I absolutely have a deep faith.

848
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,200
Even this book I'm writing right now,

849
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:38,200
I'm trying to bear my soul to the universe

850
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:42,200
and God and the souls of some of the people I'm writing about now.

851
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:45,000
Being that in tune, I think is beautiful.

852
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:47,000
And I think this is it.

853
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:50,000
Whatever you call that thing, it's real.

854
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,000
I truly believe it's real.

855
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:53,000
And you hear these experiences,

856
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,000
especially on someone who's struggling

857
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,000
and that voice is actually holding their hand

858
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:00,000
and then pulling them back towards a beautiful place.

859
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:03,000
I think it's so good to hear those stories.

860
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,000
Yeah, my sister has been in the church for a long time.

861
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:08,000
She actually sings in the choir.

862
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,000
And when I told her the story, it gave her chills.

863
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:14,800
And I can't thank God enough for the position he's put me in

864
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:15,800
and the path he's put me on.

865
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,800
And I heard a quote the other day that said

866
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,800
there's nothing more dangerous than a man who knows his purpose.

867
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,800
Amen to that.

868
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,800
Dip your knuckles in broken glass and let's go.

869
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:30,800
Let's go.

870
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:31,800
All right.

871
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,800
Well, speaking of injury, I've had this conversation

872
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:35,800
with quite a few people,

873
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:38,800
but the one that really stands out is Stuart McGill,

874
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:40,600
the back mechanic.

875
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:42,600
I was asking him about sleep deprivation,

876
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,600
the shift work that we do and injury.

877
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,600
And he goes, well, it's not if it's when.

878
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:50,600
And this is so apparent to me

879
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:52,600
because how many times have you heard people say

880
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:54,600
it's always the fit guys that get hurt.

881
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:57,600
Well, the fit guys and girls take their job seriously.

882
00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:59,600
They're out there drilling on the back apron.

883
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:02,600
They're in the gym trying to take the job seriously

884
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:05,600
and be fit and strong and prepared for someone's worst day.

885
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:09,400
But when you dive into the world of strength and conditioning,

886
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:13,400
everyone's favorite athlete is not awake for 24 hours every third day.

887
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:16,400
They're resting and going ice baths, doing all the things.

888
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:20,400
What have you observed about shift work and training

889
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,400
and then what tools are you trying to bring in to offset

890
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,400
some of that negativity

891
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:28,400
when it comes to the work that we do?

892
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:29,400
Well, it's your diet.

893
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,400
This is the biggest thing, nutrition, what you put in your body.

894
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:34,400
We as firefighters and first responders,

895
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,200
a lot of times we eat real hearty meals

896
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,200
and we snack all day and we try to sleep when we can

897
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:44,200
and it's very detrimental to your health

898
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,200
and weight and your fitness level

899
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,200
because you're eating real hearty meals,

900
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,200
heavy carb meals, heavy fats meals,

901
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,200
that kind of deal like that.

902
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:55,200
And on your days off, you're still eating like crap

903
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:57,200
because you're tired.

904
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,200
I just did 18 runs in 24 hours

905
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:01,200
and four of them were after midnight.

906
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:05,000
I'm not going to sit and meal prep and eat something healthy.

907
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:07,000
I'm going to grab the quickest thing to me,

908
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,000
scarf it down and then go to sleep.

909
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:13,000
So that's the negative outlook that I've seen

910
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:15,000
when I first got onto the fire department.

911
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:18,000
But I'm thankful to have a crew of guys

912
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:21,000
who we are all very health conscious

913
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,000
and fitness conscious.

914
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:26,000
One of the guys, Brian Henry,

915
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,000
he could be a competitive biker.

916
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:30,800
He does long distance stuff. He wants to do Ironman,

917
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:32,800
that kind of deal.

918
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,800
Another guy is a bodybuilder by the name of James Jekolini.

919
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:37,800
Another one, Matt Hendricks,

920
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:40,800
wants to get into Strongman with me next year

921
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:42,800
after he gets surgery done.

922
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,800
So I have a great crew that wants to be fit,

923
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:47,800
that wants to eat healthy.

924
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:49,800
We do eat healthy and fantastic cooks.

925
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:51,800
And you get a lot of that too in the fire department,

926
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:54,800
some fantastic cooks, but they cook the wrong stuff,

927
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:56,800
not the good stuff.

928
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,600
So I'm thankful to have a crew.

929
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:01,600
And if you have a crew that's tight like that,

930
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:06,600
they all have the same outlook and the same goals.

931
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:08,600
They've come to every competition that I've competed in,

932
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:10,600
whether it's in state or out of state,

933
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:11,600
they make their way there.

934
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:13,600
It's that family aspect we're looking for.

935
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:16,600
And having that makes it so much easier to stay on track.

936
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:20,600
And we all talk to each other outside of the fire service of,

937
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:21,600
hey, you go to the gym today,

938
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:23,600
hey, what do you eat today?

939
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:24,600
That kind of deal.

940
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:26,400
That kind of accountability helps too.

941
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:28,400
How did you forge that tight knit crew?

942
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,400
Was that just by accident or did you have a kind of leader

943
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:33,400
pulling everyone in?

944
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,400
So Station 21 is the oldest station in Toledo.

945
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,400
It was built in 1930 and it is a crap hole.

946
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:41,400
There's like black mold in there and stuff like that.

947
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,400
But it's really cool because of just the history of it

948
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:49,400
and still has the original slate on the roof and stuff like that.

949
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:50,400
It's really cool.

950
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:52,400
Looks like some of the Gothic times.

951
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:56,200
And the district we're in is pretty busy,

952
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:58,200
which that's what we want.

953
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:00,200
We all want a busy area.

954
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:02,200
I was the first to bid in there.

955
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:04,200
And then I had a buddy of mine who was in my class,

956
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:05,200
that's Ciccolini James.

957
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,200
He got into it because I did.

958
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:09,200
And then we kind of just recruited from there,

959
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:11,200
getting all the other guys, young guys.

960
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:12,200
We're all young crew.

961
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:14,200
All of us have been on eight years or less

962
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:16,200
and we're all hungry and we all get after it.

963
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:17,200
Yeah.

964
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,200
I always found that you've more often than not found

965
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:22,200
the most cohesive crews in the busiest parts.

966
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:27,400
I always bid the most struggling areas usually apart from the last place,

967
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:28,200
which is the theme park.

968
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:29,800
So there weren't really any struggling areas there.

969
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:34,200
But before that, I just always felt like that's not only where you get the most

970
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:38,400
fires, but it's the people that get the least compassion normally.

971
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,200
So the homeless and the sex workers and some of these other ones,

972
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:44,400
you might be the only person that's kind to that individual the entire day,

973
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:45,600
the entire week.

974
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,800
So I always felt that there was more value protecting

975
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:53,600
the society's most desperate than it was working in some bougie area where you ran

976
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:54,800
two calls a day.

977
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:55,800
Yeah.

978
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,800
It's nice to have that every once in a while, but I want to help people.

979
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:01,800
I don't want to sit around all day and do nothing.

980
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:07,800
I'd rather be busy all day and have the day go quick and make a difference in someone's life.

981
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:09,200
We don't get a whole lot of fire.

982
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:10,800
Our job is 95% EMS.

983
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:15,000
But when we do have a fire, it's usually a good one because we're on the south side

984
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:16,800
of Toledo away from a lot of people.

985
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:18,600
So it takes a while for them to get there.

986
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,000
So we're by ourselves for a while every time we get a good fire.

987
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:22,800
But I wouldn't call it a good fire.

988
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:24,200
But as we call a good fire.

989
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:25,200
Yeah, exactly.

990
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:26,200
It's going to happen.

991
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:27,600
You want to be there to help.

992
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:28,400
Yeah.

993
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:30,400
So what about the sleep side?

994
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:34,400
What do you do on your days off to try and maximize your rest and recovery?

995
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:41,400
So unfortunately, having a rough district where you do get a lot of calls and me

996
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:45,800
training, I try to stay consistent training for some sort of competition.

997
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:51,000
And in three or four months cycles that I am going right to the gym right after work,

998
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,000
usually at 7 a.m. with sleep or no sleep.

999
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:56,600
And then I have a 16 month old at home.

1000
01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:00,800
And I'm very glad that I have a mother and father who love watching their grandson.

1001
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:04,600
So they usually are watching him so I can get a good nap in.

1002
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:09,400
But I usually go right to a workout right after work just for the fact that I think

1003
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:14,800
it's actually better for my sleep cycle to get that work in and then get those glycogen

1004
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:19,000
stores taken care of and that kind of deal from any food that I'd eaten the day

1005
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:22,800
before and then I can get some good sleep afterwards because if I just try to go home

1006
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:25,000
and sleep, I'm not going to be able to.

1007
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:27,600
And your wife works in the same department?

1008
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:28,600
Yep, same department.

1009
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:30,000
And she's on a different shift.

1010
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:32,000
So I work C shift and she comes in on A shift.

1011
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:33,200
So I see her every morning.

1012
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,600
Just I don't get to spend any time with her every every third day.

1013
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:38,600
We get to finally spend time together.

1014
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:42,000
And how do you make that work, that relationship dynamic?

1015
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:44,000
Absence makes the heart grow fonder, right?

1016
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:45,800
I mean, we don't see each other very often.

1017
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:47,200
So we do see each other.

1018
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:50,400
It's we're training together because she does strong land as well.

1019
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:55,000
And we're spending time with our son after we get done with the gym.

1020
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:59,000
And I love our our schedule right now.

1021
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:00,400
Yeah, it's kind of chaotic.

1022
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:01,600
We don't see each other every day.

1023
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:04,400
But the times we do see each other, there's never a dull moment.

1024
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:05,200
There's no just time.

1025
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:08,000
We're just sitting down and there's nothing to be said because we always got

1026
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:10,600
something to talk about. We didn't see each other in two days.

1027
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:14,000
What's the shift pattern that you guys work in Toledo?

1028
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:15,600
24 on 48 off.

1029
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:16,200
Okay.

1030
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:17,000
And Kelly's.

1031
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:17,800
Yep.

1032
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:18,400
Every three weeks.

1033
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:19,000
Okay.

1034
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:24,800
Because my one of my drums that I beat, you know, like a dead horse is the fact

1035
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:26,800
that firefighters work so many hours.

1036
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:27,800
And I think it's insanity.

1037
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,200
And we just devolved from when we did just go to fires.

1038
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:34,800
You know, we were sitting around and shooting the ship for 24 hours.

1039
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:40,600
And I think this is your family dynamic is a perfect example of why one of the

1040
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:42,600
many reasons why we need to address it.

1041
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:47,000
You know, not only is it the mental and physical health issues that we're

1042
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:48,200
seeing that are evident.

1043
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:51,400
And then you add on the recruitment crisis from people not wanting to do

1044
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:54,400
this as much because they see the things I just mentioned.

1045
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:58,200
But also you've got not just firefighters, you got husbands and wives

1046
01:04:58,200 --> 01:04:59,600
and your mothers and fathers.

1047
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,000
And so this is time with your children.

1048
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:08,000
So my my gold standard up would love to kind of hopefully get the entire

1049
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:12,800
nation to kind of buy into is just the 24 72 to 42 hour work week, which is

1050
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:17,000
what every other person bloody works, you know, and I think then in your

1051
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:20,000
situation, for example, you'd see each other twice.

1052
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:24,000
You know, if you work day and she works, see you'd be off, you know, on off

1053
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:27,000
on off, you know, and you'd get so much more time, not only with each other,

1054
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,800
but with your child, which I think is owed to our first responders.

1055
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,600
If we're going to ask them to be awake 24 hours a week or sleep.

1056
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:35,000
Absolutely.

1057
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:37,400
And what's nice is that someone's always home with him.

1058
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:38,400
His name is Dexter.

1059
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:39,400
He's fantastic.

1060
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:40,200
He's getting huge.

1061
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:42,200
He's already wearing two tee clothes at 16 months.

1062
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:43,600
It's crazy how fast he's growing.

1063
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:47,200
Hopefully takes after me when it comes to strength and her when it comes to

1064
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:52,400
looks, but but someone's always home with him, which is nice.

1065
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:56,200
You know, we don't ever have to pay for childcare, which is astronomical.

1066
01:05:56,200 --> 01:06:01,000
But he doesn't get to see us together a whole lot, which which kind of he's

1067
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,000
young now is not ready to be detrimental now.

1068
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:06,600
But later on, you know, we'd like to get on to where we're in the same shift

1069
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:10,200
so that there are two days where we're with him the whole time.

1070
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:14,400
I think that'd be better for him and then better for our sanity as well.

1071
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:15,400
Yeah.

1072
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:15,800
Yeah.

1073
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:17,800
Well, I mean, the dominoes are falling.

1074
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:19,800
The departments here in Florida are starting to go on.

1075
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:23,800
My phone blew up for a while from all over the country.

1076
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,400
Were people wanting to know how these departments did it?

1077
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:29,000
And I've got another one coming out in about a week or so.

1078
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,800
Gainesville next to us is just about to go to 24 72.

1079
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:35,600
So people are realizing not only the health benefits and the hiring, the

1080
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:37,800
recruitment benefits, but also the financial savings.

1081
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:41,600
So I hope this is something that sweeps across the country because, you

1082
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:43,400
know, you're either with it or you're against it.

1083
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,200
You know, if departments around you start going to it, then you're not

1084
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:47,200
going to hire anyone.

1085
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:49,400
So we may as well change it now.

1086
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:51,600
Yeah, we're frightening.

1087
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:54,200
Less and less people setting up to take these tests.

1088
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:59,400
And it's sad to see because it's one of the most rewarding jobs we've been in.

1089
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:01,000
Yeah.

1090
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:02,000
This is what I've talked about.

1091
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,600
People that got hired, you know, when I did, it was just, you know, around

1092
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:09,000
the beginning of 2000 is we were all competing against literally thousands

1093
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:12,200
of, you know, candidates, thousands for a handful of jobs.

1094
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:14,800
And now it's couldn't be further from the truth.

1095
01:07:14,800 --> 01:07:19,400
So the beautiful thing is, all right, well, we were there only 20 years ago.

1096
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:21,600
So we can absolutely get back there again.

1097
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:23,000
What has changed?

1098
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:27,000
And I think the answer is information, the access to information, the

1099
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,000
curtains being pulled back on mental health and cancer and all these other

1100
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:33,800
things that is the dark side of the job, which needs to be acknowledged,

1101
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,000
but it doesn't negate the good side of the job.

1102
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:39,800
So if we can address the things, you know, obviously things like

1103
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:43,000
decontamination and climate events are definitely a step forward, but also

1104
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:46,600
you create resilience in the human being by giving them rest and recovery.

1105
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:50,000
So you address that and then obviously you're saving money because your

1106
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:53,000
firefighters aren't breaking or, you know, taking their own lives.

1107
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:56,400
Now you're going to have these people lined up again, and now you can choose

1108
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:59,800
the best of that group rather than the entire group, because you're desperate.

1109
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:01,400
Yeah, absolutely.

1110
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:02,600
No, I agree with you a hundred percent.

1111
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:08,400
Rest recovery is going to be probably the hardest thing for us to achieve

1112
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:12,400
as firefighters for the fact that, you know, the run volumes are really

1113
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:16,400
getting higher and the, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

1114
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:20,400
you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the.

1115
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:24,800
And so it's, it's really, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a tough call.

1116
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:28,400
Because it's, it's, it's a tough call, you know, it's a tough call you

1117
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:29,000
have to make.

1118
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,200
And so we're not gaining any more people.

1119
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:33,800
No one wants to hire any more people, gets more money that have to spend.

1120
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:39,000
And unfortunately it's the firefighters, the first responders

1121
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:39,600
were the ones that suffer.

1122
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:40,600
Yep.

1123
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:43,600
Well, and the crazy thing is that I'm not an intelligent guy, especially

1124
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:47,680
people and then you'll save, I mean, hand over fist to the point where you could put

1125
01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:49,120
more people on more engines.

1126
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:51,900
You know, if you've closed down stations, you can reopen them.

1127
01:08:51,900 --> 01:08:57,960
So it's just a courage that's needed from the leadership to identify where they're wasting

1128
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:00,920
money and proactively put it in instead.

1129
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:01,920
Absolutely.

1130
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:02,920
All right.

1131
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:08,560
Well, then I want to shift to some closing questions before I let you go.

1132
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:12,400
The first one, is there a book or are there books that you love to recommend?

1133
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:17,240
It can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated.

1134
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:20,560
Both books by David Goggins.

1135
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:22,840
I really read those religiously.

1136
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:29,800
They are just the stuff he went through and what he talks about with mental toughness

1137
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:31,920
and that kind of deal.

1138
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:33,640
That's huge for me.

1139
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:37,840
Reading those has helped me through a lot of issues I've had in my life.

1140
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:44,040
But yeah, those are the two that I would recommend anyone read, at least once.

1141
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:45,040
Brilliant.

1142
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:46,040
Yeah, I've read his first one.

1143
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:47,600
I haven't read the second one yet, but he was supposed to come on.

1144
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:48,600
Fantastic.

1145
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:52,160
I need to circle around again, see, because yeah, I know he did some wildland firefighting

1146
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:53,160
for a bit too.

1147
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:59,640
Yeah, he's a fantastic motivational speaker and every time I listen to a video from him,

1148
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:02,120
I just want to run my head through a wall.

1149
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:03,120
All right.

1150
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:05,000
Well, what about films and documentaries?

1151
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:07,000
Any of those that you love?

1152
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:14,120
We don't get to watch a whole lot of TV or movies because we're either training or we're

1153
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:17,880
with Dexter, that kind of deal.

1154
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:19,880
I'm a sports fanatic.

1155
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:24,400
I love Barry Sanders.

1156
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:29,880
His documentary that just came out on Amazon was one of my favorites to watch.

1157
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:35,520
Just because how humble he was his whole life and all the things that he accomplished through

1158
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:38,280
his career.

1159
01:10:38,280 --> 01:10:43,000
Small town country kid that is probably the best running back to ever play the game.

1160
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:48,200
He quit before he even had a chance to break the record because he just didn't want to.

1161
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:50,180
It's really cool.

1162
01:10:50,180 --> 01:10:55,520
It's inspiring to me to see a guy that worked so hard and was so humble and achieved great

1163
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:56,520
things.

1164
01:10:56,520 --> 01:11:01,400
I just had one of the guys on the show from one of the Rangers that was actually in the

1165
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:03,080
same platoon or battalion.

1166
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:05,600
I'm not going to get that right, but it's Pat Tillman.

1167
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:07,280
Again, that's another powerful story.

1168
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:12,840
Even though obviously the way he was killed was tragic because it was a friendly fire.

1169
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:15,880
It seems like an ironic statement that took his life.

1170
01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:18,080
Again, what an amazing man.

1171
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:22,600
He has the opportunity to make millions and millions and he decides to go serve his country.

1172
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:24,440
He was an undersized guy too.

1173
01:11:24,440 --> 01:11:28,840
He was an undersized linebacker, moved to safety.

1174
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:32,440
That's the epitome of a guy that earned everything he got.

1175
01:11:32,440 --> 01:11:35,360
He still gave it up for a higher purpose.

1176
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:36,360
Absolutely.

1177
01:11:36,360 --> 01:11:37,360
All right.

1178
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:40,960
Well, speaking of amazing people, is there someone you'd recommend to come on this podcast

1179
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:45,400
as a guest to speak to the first responders, military, and associated professions of the

1180
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:46,400
world?

1181
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:48,600
A guy by the name of Harry Walker.

1182
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:50,800
He is a wildland firefighter.

1183
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:53,080
He also serves in the Marine Corps.

1184
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:56,600
He just got back from Africa for a deployment.

1185
01:11:56,600 --> 01:12:03,400
He was helping local military defend against poachers.

1186
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:05,520
He's a fantastic guy.

1187
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:07,720
Guy's a big personality.

1188
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:12,480
I competed with him in the World's Strongest Firefighter and I'm looking forward to competing

1189
01:12:12,480 --> 01:12:14,120
with him again this year.

1190
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:19,320
Guy's a little bit of a nut, but he's so much fun to talk to and just a great guy.

1191
01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:20,320
Brilliant.

1192
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:22,280
Are you able to make that connection?

1193
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:23,280
I will.

1194
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:24,280
I'll reach out to him.

1195
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:25,280
That'd be amazing.

1196
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:26,280
All right.

1197
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:27,280
Thank you so much.

1198
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:28,280
All right.

1199
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:31,800
Within the last question before, I'll make sure everyone knows where to find you.

1200
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:34,920
What do you do to decompress?

1201
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:42,360
My decompress is actually the training itself, like going to the gym and any type of trauma

1202
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:48,160
I've been through when it comes to the fire service and in my life, I take it out on the

1203
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:49,160
weights.

1204
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:53,560
Physical fitness and working to straight exhaustion is one of the best feelings you can have to

1205
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:55,800
just let things go.

1206
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:59,840
And my second favorite thing is just sitting down and talking with my wife.

1207
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:06,360
We're able to decompress together and talk about things that normal people don't talk

1208
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:08,160
about because we're both in the fire service.

1209
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:13,480
So to be able to share that with somebody, we're basically best friends too, so that

1210
01:13:13,480 --> 01:13:14,480
really helps out.

1211
01:13:14,480 --> 01:13:19,440
But having that at home really helps decompress what's going on.

1212
01:13:19,440 --> 01:13:21,320
And then I love coaching football.

1213
01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:23,400
I did that for the last seven years.

1214
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:27,280
I took this last year off from having Dexter and I'm taking this year off because I just

1215
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:29,400
want to be a dad and have fun with him.

1216
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:31,920
But I still help out with the local high school.

1217
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:36,080
Actually today we did the hero workout at the Anthony Wayne High School where I've done

1218
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:40,860
it for the last seven years where we bring out local fire departments and police departments.

1219
01:13:40,860 --> 01:13:47,400
We put the football team through workouts that pertain to the job and kind of give them

1220
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:50,800
perspective of what we do on an everyday basis and that's their favorite day of the year.

1221
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:55,440
So doing that and mentoring kids is a great way to decompress as well.

1222
01:13:55,440 --> 01:13:59,420
Have you had any of those young football players enter the profession?

1223
01:13:59,420 --> 01:14:05,800
We have four became firefighters, two became cops and another four more went military.

1224
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:06,800
Beautiful.

1225
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:10,520
Because I think again, back to that mentorship conversation, that's one of the solutions

1226
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:11,520
for recruitment.

1227
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:15,760
You've got to go out into the community and not only find the ones that want to do it,

1228
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:18,320
but give kids an opportunity to realize that they don't want to do it.

1229
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:20,720
That's what happened with my stepson, my bonus boy.

1230
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:24,520
He tried it, he got immersed, he was good at it and he's like, no, this isn't for me.

1231
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:25,520
Good.

1232
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:27,920
Now you wouldn't have wasted your time going through an academy.

1233
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:28,920
Yeah.

1234
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:35,600
And like you said before, mental health services is very neglected when it comes to military

1235
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:38,960
and fire and police as well.

1236
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:42,640
And I want to be able to do as much as I can to fix that and make it a norm to be able

1237
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:43,640
to talk about it.

1238
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:49,400
And another thing to fund services that can happen to reach out to those people who need

1239
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:50,400
it.

1240
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:56,600
Again, King for a day before we wrap up from the mental health side, what would you put

1241
01:14:56,600 --> 01:15:00,000
in the fire service at the front door and then the people that are already in?

1242
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,640
Well, it's changing culture.

1243
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:04,800
It's the culture of the fire services.

1244
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:05,800
Don't talk about it.

1245
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:13,280
Suck it, you know, just swallow it down, bury it, you know, go have a drink or, you know,

1246
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:18,280
laugh about it later on with a dark joke or something like that.

1247
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:26,120
We started EAP program at Toledo, but it's all it is if you go through a traumatic event,

1248
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:28,840
they offer to have people come out and talk to you.

1249
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:32,440
But once again, our culture is don't talk about it.

1250
01:15:32,440 --> 01:15:33,520
It needs to happen.

1251
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:38,800
So King for a day, I'd want to change that culture to make it.

1252
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:43,560
You have guys out there who look like they're, you know, the biggest baddest dudes and actually

1253
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:48,800
have them talk about things with people and basically start the conversation because that's

1254
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:50,680
what that's what has to happen.

1255
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:52,920
You need to start the conversation.

1256
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:57,400
And I guarantee once you start that conversation, people are going to open up.

1257
01:15:57,400 --> 01:16:01,100
The more time's gone on, the more I realized that one of the things missing in the mental

1258
01:16:01,100 --> 01:16:04,820
health conversation is the hope from post-traumatic growth.

1259
01:16:04,820 --> 01:16:08,000
So working through those struggles, those traumas.

1260
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:10,520
And on the other end, you know, you're a better person.

1261
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:11,520
You got a clearer mind.

1262
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:15,320
So therefore you're going to be a better police officer, a better firefighter.

1263
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:21,440
And to use your analogy, it would be like doing a really shitty deadlift, you know,

1264
01:16:21,440 --> 01:16:24,040
with a rounded back over and over again.

1265
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:25,080
I'm just going to pick it up.

1266
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:26,600
I'm just going to pick it up.

1267
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:31,480
One day you're going to break versus taking the time, you know, lifting properly, eating

1268
01:16:31,480 --> 01:16:32,780
and sleeping properly.

1269
01:16:32,780 --> 01:16:34,540
And now you continually get better.

1270
01:16:34,540 --> 01:16:39,360
So I think that getting people excited with the fact that if you do talk about it, whether

1271
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:43,080
it's around the dining room table, whether it's to a counselor, whether it's through

1272
01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:48,120
a psychedelic retreat, whatever your thing is, that there is a better version of yourself

1273
01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:49,120
on the other side.

1274
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:53,760
And I think that hope is what will get people, you know, to stop shying away from it and

1275
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:57,000
actually be excited about some of these therapies that work.

1276
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:58,000
Absolutely.

1277
01:16:58,000 --> 01:16:59,660
I agree with you.

1278
01:16:59,660 --> 01:17:01,300
Excitement and hope.

1279
01:17:01,300 --> 01:17:02,300
And then just starting the conversation.

1280
01:17:02,300 --> 01:17:05,920
You got to, someone's got to open up or it's never going to be talked about.

1281
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:06,920
100%.

1282
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:07,920
All right.

1283
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:11,240
Well, then the last question, where online can people find you if they want to follow

1284
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:13,160
you or reach out?

1285
01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:24,080
My Instagram is nc35fb, that's C-I-N-C-I-3-5-F-B and also wallstrong, w-a-u-g-h-strong.org.

1286
01:17:24,080 --> 01:17:30,480
We are doing a charity strongman here in Toledo, Ohio, where we're raising money for veteran

1287
01:17:30,480 --> 01:17:34,520
and first responder mental health services.

1288
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:41,040
We paired with the VA out of Ann Arbor, Michigan, the Lucas County Anti-Suicide Coalition, Task

1289
01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:48,720
Force 20, and now the Congresswoman Marcia Catter's office as well.

1290
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:51,400
To raise money, we haven't even taken formal donations yet.

1291
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:52,880
We're somewhere around 20 grand.

1292
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:53,880
So it's just a good start.

1293
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:56,240
And so we're going to go up from here.

1294
01:17:56,240 --> 01:17:58,160
And when is the competition?

1295
01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:00,880
August 3rd here in Toledo, Ohio at Whitmer High School.

1296
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:01,880
Beautiful.

1297
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:04,680
Well, I'll make sure I put those links on the website for the show as well.

1298
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:05,680
Appreciate it.

1299
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:06,680
Thank you.

1300
01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:08,040
Well, Marcus, I want to say thank you so much.

1301
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:12,880
I mean, it's again, thank you to Will for connecting us, but such a unique perspective

1302
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:17,280
with the strongman and law enforcement first and then obviously your journey into the fire.

1303
01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:21,440
But there's been so much kind of value to be gleaned from this conversation.

1304
01:18:21,440 --> 01:18:24,960
So I want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time and coming on the

1305
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:26,720
Behind the Shield podcast today.

1306
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:27,720
I appreciate you having me.

1307
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:29,360
I was very excited for this.

1308
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:34,520
I've listened to some of the episodes you've had and it only made me more excited to be

1309
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:35,520
here.

1310
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:58,320
Thank you so much.