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Welcome to episode 385 of Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing

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and this week it is my absolute pleasure to welcome back on the show, Josh Brolin.

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Now Josh is my guest on episode 82 which we did shortly after Only the Brave was released.

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So in that discussion, if you haven't heard it, I highly recommend that you do. He talked about that

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project, about how they were trained to portray wildland firefighters, the fitness element,

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some of the incredible stories that came out of that. And since that interview we ended up

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becoming good friends. He was so kind to actually write the foreword for my book and we have these

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amazing conversations and I'm always in awe at just the difference in perspective that he has.

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He's a man who's gone through the acting world who now has definitely been held in high regard

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as far as his ability and fame and so has a very different lens that he looks through some of the

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issues that we see. So we just sat down and pressed record and we talked about kindness,

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about unkindness, about mental health in the acting world and some of the other perspectives

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that I like to talk about on this project but just from a completely different perspective.

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So before we get to that interview, as I say, every single week please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave

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a rating. Each five-star rating truly elevates this project making it easier for others to find

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and this is a free library for you, whether individually, whether organizationally. So all

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I ask in return is that you take a moment and share these incredible men and women's stories

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so I can get them to everyone else who needs to hear them on planet earth.

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So that being said, I introduce to you Josh Brolin. Enjoy.

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All right, so we are rolling. So I just want to start by saying thank you so much for inviting me

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to your beautiful home. So you don't have to be specific but where are we on planet earth right

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now? We're in the south. The south? No, we're in Atlanta, Georgia and equally thanks for driving

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up here. I mean you got up at five whatever this morning and made the five-hour drive here.

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I love that you made the effort. Yeah, well it was worth it. For a little old me.

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Well like I said, my goal is to help elevate your career.

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You can't do shit. No, it does. You know what it does? It elevates me personally which has become

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much more of a focused theme now than ever I think. Yeah, well so I'd love to start just kind of

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at the most recent event. So last time we met, I guess the first time we met, you were still in

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Malibu. I cringe when you say that. It's weird. So you had this shift. You're a dad again

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and you're about to be a dad for another one. Continued. What has been

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after the huge success that you had in the summer of Brolin, what has been that shift for you that

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included moving to Atlanta? I don't know man. I don't know that I can follow like a trajectory,

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a simple trajectory in what event led to the next reaction. I know that the summer of Brolin

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existed for whatever it's titled as. But something happened. I went into what I call major contraction

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and I don't know if that, it wasn't necessarily because of quote unquote attention or fame or

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fame or expectation or any of it. I just felt like I had hit not a success peak,

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but I had set out to do something. I love the idea of being 50, going and doing an action film.

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Thanos was supposed to be basically a cameo when I said yes when I was in England and I was doing

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Everest. And they had come to me with this idea and I was like, I like that it's not one of the

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Avengers. I don't know that I'd do it if it were one of the Avengers, nothing against any of the

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Avengers, but I just didn't see myself. I never saw myself like that. As Black Widow. Black Widow,

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exactly. That maybe like the RuPaul story as Black Widow. I was like, no, I can do that.

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I tried to do that. But I love that it was all of them against this purple dude. And once they gave

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me the Bible of what it was and I started to go through it, it just became really interesting to

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me. So between cable and having to be in that kind of shape and to do it without steroids,

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being a Gold's Gym member, knowing that I could take the other route and I didn't,

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and I love that people refuse to believe that I didn't. They said, you just don't have the

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testosterone capacity to look like you did. But we did it, which is cool. And I love that. And you

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know that better than I think anybody. Being very health conscious and what you have to do in the

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fire department and all that. In order to be able to be there for other people. I just love that

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idea of being there. So that's the motivator. It's like, if I had another job, would I be able to do

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it? I think that that's kind of a secret motivator of mine. Still refusing to believe that I'm an

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actor. But so I hit a peak, you know, those movies did very well. And I was like, okay, so,

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you know, Deadpool didn't really continue. And that didn't bother me so much because I felt like I'd

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done it. And the Thanos thing was a two movie, one off, and that was done. So it was like, what now?

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You know, I'd done a lot of character stuff. I'd done a lot of different types of genres and

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different budgeted movies. And so something in me contracted, I think part of it was having a kid,

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you know, and I just said, I enjoy this more than I enjoy that. And the idea of, you know,

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being on your own and traveling around and Josh, Josh, Josh, hi, hello. Hey, you know,

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and they're shaking when they're taking a picture with you and all that. It's like, all that's really

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nice. And I know that from my side and meeting Ray Bradbury and being so just like, this is the guy

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that came up with Martian Chronicles, or this is the guy that came up with with Fahrenheit 451. But

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I don't know, man, I had some kind of strange wall. And I was like, I wasn't sure if I wanted

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to do it anymore. Because I was enjoying and I still am enjoying being a dad so much, just one

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really paled compared to the other. There's a rest to that story, but I'll stop so you can ask

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me a question. No, no, I mean, we carry on. I mean, that's that's just so interesting for us.

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Because I say us, like, you know, everyone that was looking from the other side of the movie

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screen, right? Because, you know, you hear like the overnight success, and obviously, you know,

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your backstory is, you know, acting from very, very young. But you see, you know, people rise to,

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to fame, and they get all this exposure. And then, you know, it's like, well, then there has been or,

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you know, whatever. And it's like, well, I always look at it like, you know, what impact does that

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have on that person, though, are you held in that pedestal? And then maybe you don't get woke,

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you held in that pedestal, you don't want to be there anymore. Like you see, I'm always curious

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about Mike Myers. Like he was, you know, huge doing all the movies that he did. And then I don't know,

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I have no idea. But I'm assuming that he probably just one day was like, I just want to be a dad now.

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And just step back. I don't know, you know, and you are Cameron Diaz. I mean, somebody brought up

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Cameron Diaz the other day, and she just literally disappeared. And then the question, the next

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question, which is a very cosmetic question is, oh, has she got to a certain age where maybe she

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didn't get the work that she had gotten before she wasn't in a position. So you try to look for,

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you know, again, these kind of lame cosmetic reasons, oh, something must have happened.

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They don't want him anymore. They don't want her anymore. And I know that that's a reality. But I

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think also, there's a personal aspect to it that we deny with people who are, you know,

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public spectacle, for lack of a better phrase, you know, and they start to think, well,

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they're not human, you know, it's, their success is really up to us, you know, their choices are

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up to us now that they've given their, they sold their soul to the devil. And which is very much

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not the case because there's, there's a whole life going on. And here, like I've made this move,

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I'm a staunch Californian. I remember when I went from California, which I wasn't very proud of,

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because I thought that there was a lack of character in California. And I moved to New York

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to become a quote unquote, better actor, or quote unquote, real actor. And then I realized that in

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New York, there's as many, you know, characterless assholes as there are in California or anywhere

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else. You know, it's an amalgamation of a wide array of characters and people. And, but what I

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did learn in New York was the pride around living in your city. And there was an incredible pride

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there. And when I went back to California, I said, I'm going to inherit that New York pride of New

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York in California as a Californian. And I did, you know, and I love Venice Beach and I still love

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Venice Beach. And even though it's, it's a little nutty right now, and it reminds me kind of like

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when I was a kid, where it's, you know, getting a little more violent and, you know, filled with

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homeless and all that kind of stuff. But again, it's my Venice Beach and, and I am proud of it.

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And I was in Paso Robles, you know, where I'm from, I am proud of that. And I have a ranch there

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still. And, but something happened, something happened when I moved to Malibu and it just

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wasn't my thing. And people imagined me growing up there and I didn't grow up there. My dad always

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wanted to live there. That was always like a goal for him, but it was never for me. But we found this

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amazing piece of property. Long story short, I love the property. We had an amazing house. You were

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at that house. It's a, it's a really, you know, the ocean's right there. It's incredible, man.

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We got it at the bottom of the market so we could afford it. We couldn't afford to live there for

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years, but after a while we could. And something, there was an all we that happened to me there.

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And there was, there was, there was, I, I, and not everybody, and I'm not going to judge an entire,

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you know, you know, Malibu society, but it, it was like a lot of people with broken compasses

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that were just trying to figure out where to point themselves in any given day.

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And that was not a good thing for me to be around. Yeah. Well, community is so important. And if you

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don't feel like you're in a nurturing, healthy community, then eventually it's going to take its

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toll. For me, it did. At least that community, for me at that time, maybe it would have been

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different in my twenties or it would have been different in my seventies. I don't know. But for

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me at that time, it just, as much as I liked moments of it, there was a general feeling that

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feeling that just wasn't feeding me in a way that I liked to be fed. So I'm in, you know,

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I could never imagine living in Atlanta. You know, my wife's from here. I could never imagine it.

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Like, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing here, but I really like it. I'm really enjoying it. I

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really enjoy the kindness of it. You know, our neighbors came over and brought us a, a, a loaf

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of, of, of peach bread, peach banana bread or something. And they introduced themselves and

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wake, you know, welcomed us to the neighborhood, which was amazing. And also 10 minutes away,

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you have old fourth ward, you have Krog street, you have, you know, Ebenezer church,

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which I've always had a fascination about. Howard Zinn taught here at Spelman. You know,

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I had a really close relationship with Howard Zinn. And so there's a diversity here that I

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very, very, very much appreciate and I feed off of. So I get in the truck and I'm bang,

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I'm down by Ebenezer church and I'm feeding off all that. We just went down and took a bunch of

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pictures down there, which was great and then a lot of people, you know, I come there. So there's a

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lot of, it's not just one bubble that I'm interested. I'm not interested in surrounding myself with a

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bunch of mirror images of myself and my belief systems. You know, I like to be challenged and

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I like to experience other cultures and, and Atlanta feels the perfect place to be right now,

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to be able to do that. And then I leave, I get on my motorcycle and I leave and I'm in farmland and

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then I can, I can satisfy that part of me, which is a full country boy, you know, and I pull over

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and I'm looking at a farm and a guy comes across the street and we talk about catfish or large

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mouth bass in his pond. And I love that. I don't know. It makes sense to me, finally,

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why I became an actor. And for me, very personally, it wasn't like, you know, I've heard a lot of

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stories when I was four and I love doing scenes for my family. That was never me ever. I had no

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interest in that. And I just wasn't that kid, but what I did have an interest in is diversity and not

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necessarily diversity of just characters and stories and people. And, you know, I would,

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I would just as soon listen to Cardi B as I would the Avett brothers, as I would Chris Stapleton.

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It's, it's, it hits a different part of me. It satisfies a different part of me that I need

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satisfied. I'm not, I don't want to just be consumed with Johnny Cash, love Johnny Cash,

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but not as a rule. Yeah. I'm intrigued with some of Cardi B stuff. I still don't understand why

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singing about a wet ass pussy. I mean, to have diarrhea is embarrassing as it is when the singer

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sings about it. But you know what, when you see, when you say, I just saw a video recently of a

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bunch of like geriatrics listening to her song and they, they get, she got through the first like

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verse or whatever it was and they all cracked up. They were all laughing hysterically and to see a

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bunch of 80 year olds laughing at Cardi B sing about wet ass pussy just makes me happy. I gotta

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look that up. It's genius. It was genius. Anyway. Yeah. So I don't know, I don't know what that is

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and I've always been like that. And not that it's better or worse than anybody else, but even when

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I was in past Robles, there was a, a need to, I see it in my daughter, man. I just explained it

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to you earlier. She's always looking for the challenge. It, it just works for her. It makes

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her day more complete. Where's the obstacle and where's the challenge? And it's not a negativity.

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It's just like, there is more here. There is something, there is a way to fulfill and enrich

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my day. And I see it in her as a 23 month old child. So I go, yeah, I get it. I get what you're

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doing and I will be a facilitator as much as I possibly can. Yeah. No. And I think that's,

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that's something I'm observing at the moment is I think people are so, and I say people,

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it's a generalization, but, but a lot of the things that we see on TV, people are so comfortable in

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their box that they're threatened by anything that's outside instead of actually understanding

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that there's so much beauty in everyone else's, you know, arena. And then you lose that commonality

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when you just build a fence around yourself. And I think that that, you know, absolutely. And I

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think that that lends to, you know, conspiracy theories and all that kind of stuff. You start,

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you're left up to your imagination and your imagination is not necessarily your best friend.

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If you're in defense and if you're in fear, your imagination can take you to a place to create

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a lot of enemies instead of this collective thing that you and I often talk about,

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about, rely, you know, your book and not to segue. And I'm sure talk about your book,

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your book, the one that I wrote a forward to, but it's your book.

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The one you said that I was the ghost writer for.

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Exactly.

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You said it was your book.

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I wish I said that. Is that you need people, man. And when you need people, you can't

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determine exactly what they should look like and be like when you need them. That's why

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humility is such an amazing thing. When you're truly humbled, when you truly feel humility,

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all that shit goes away. You just have very, very basic needs, you know, love, support, food,

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shelter, you know, all the other judgments seem to go away. When you have everything,

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and you're sitting in some kind of luxury bubble, you start to create, at least in my judgment,

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what I've seen, you start to create enemies. It's just what the worst part of our mind does.

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And that's why I think tools like AA, AA is not necessarily to stop drinking. AA is just a great

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set of tools to live better. And I think we all like we need mentors, we need people we look up

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to. When we're children, we look up to our parents, we're influenced by our parents. When we get older,

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we're influenced by a coach, we're influenced by friends, you know, you. I mean, you started

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writing this book and I was like, bro, you're a better writer than this. Like, reach down,

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don't be a pussy. And like, fucking find it. And you did. And I was so emotionally impressed,

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you know, where it's better than I thought. And it wasn't up to me to say, oh, come on.

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And it wasn't about that. But that's what we do for each other.

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Well, because I asked you.

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Yeah, that's true. You know, I mean, no, I didn't just find you and call you up.

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You just handed me down your book shit.

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Yeah, you suck. But that's yeah, yeah, you're right. That's a good point. And you put yourself,

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you created a space for it. And I like creating that space. I think ego is like not confidence is

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great. But ego is not a friendly thing. Most of the time.

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Yeah. Well, I think the humility piece comes in as again, where if you're humble, you realize

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that there's people out there that are better than you. And I mean that in a good way, like

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someone that you can ask for help that will be a mentor, you know, and I think that's again,

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the more you do that, the more you see skills, you know, value to all the other people that

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are around you. And you don't look at skin color or sexual orientation or whatever it is. But yeah,

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I mean, you, I think asking for help is almost like look down upon and it's the complete opposite

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and mental health is perfect example. Yeah. And so many people just poised, waiting to help,

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we just need to know who needs the help. And even when you said about staying here,

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like how many people love having guests at their home, but people are, oh, I don't want to intrude.

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Right. I love it when people come stay. I'm going to make you breakfast and have

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awesome Swedish coffee and sit on the porch. So yeah, I mean, I think that's, we've almost got

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this fear of community and needs to be the complete reverse. The reverse because it's tiring.

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If I make you coffee, I don't even know how to make Swedish coffee, but if I make you coffee,

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it's tiring and it's consuming and I have a child. But the consequence is so good.

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You've had this communal experience, you have this story, you've enriched each other's lives.

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Even if it doesn't go well, you've learned something from that, but going back to what

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you were saying and having somebody celebrating other people, I find it interesting that I see

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more now than ever people unwilling to celebrate other people because they feel that if they do,

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it's solidifying that you're better than me as opposed to I love what has happened to you,

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whether you've earned it or not. Some people are just lucky and they're given the opportunity

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and they're smart enough to take advantage of that opportunity when it presents itself.

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Wonderful. Now I want you to come over and if you came over when I was in a 500 square foot

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apartment in New York City, when we were all there with one tiny bedroom that looked like a closet

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and we were all mushed in together and I would take any job, it didn't matter other than maybe

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porn. I was like, we have this great job for you, I can't do it. I need the money but I can't do it.

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Then it's like people come over and it's easy and then in and out and then suddenly you have

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a house in Atlanta and people are like, whoa, what is this? Come over and use the gym. Oh,

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it's a thing. It's your gym. No, but just come over. Even if I'm not there, use the gym. If

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you're afraid because of COVID right now to go to a public gym, then fucking use my gym.

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I don't know. I don't like it. I don't want strings attached. You know what I mean?

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Strings attached and then you... You know what I mean? All that kind of thinking. It's ridiculous

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to me. I'll read you a quote that a buddy of mine, Jimmy T, is a Marine, an ex Marine or

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you're never an ex Marine. He's a Marine. I think he was a Marine. Retired Marine. How about that?

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But he sent me a quote and I love that it was from Bukowski,

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which usually connotes this kind of adolescent. Yeah, you read Bukowski, but it's not at all.

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And I sent... I've been sending it to people who I love, who are going through something.

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And here's the quote, we're all going to die, all of us. What a circus. That alone should make us

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love each other, but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities.

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We are eaten up by nothing. And to me, that's a very positive thing.

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And to me, that's a very positive quote. It sounds really negative, but it's like, hey man,

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we're going to die. All of us. That's it. That should be enough. Just knowing that,

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like this idea of like, you know, dying with the most toys and all this kind of competition,

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competitive nature and all that. You go, it's pretty stupid if you think about it. I get the

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drive, but it's pretty stupid. But on top of it, not only are we not living in with that understanding,

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with that innate understanding, but then we're getting into trivialities and things that really

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don't matter to make us feel bad. It's all pretty dumb. Like where it doesn't matter,

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none of it matters. It's all going to end. So with that, why not just do something good?

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Why not bring a smile to somebody's face? Being in Budapest and seeing somebody walk across a street

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that was handicapped, why not stop and help them? Just to make sure. And even if it's not that,

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even if it's for your own ego, so be it. Go play with your ego and help somebody across the street.

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Why not? That's a good manifestation of the ego, I think.

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I agree 100%. And that's, you know, people have their own religious philosophies and you know,

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what happens next? You come back as a cockroach or you go sit on the cloud in the sky, you know,

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whatever it is. And I don't mean that to be insulting at all the ward system that you actually

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feel good. So whatever your other beliefs, just know that using your life to do something good

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is only, how can it not result in something if it means you go to heaven or if it means you

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come back as a unicorn, not a cockroach, you know, whatever it is. And again, I'm not making fun,

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but whatever belief system you're on or whatever path you feel like you're on,

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the only thing you control is right now. So why not be a kind human being now? And then we're

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sadly getting told all the opposing views of that on all our screens at the moment.

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Yeah, yeah. There's a saying that I've heard a long time ago. Two things. One is you have one foot in

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the past and another foot in the future, then you're shitting on me and myself. I see a lot of

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insecurities now and compensations for insecurities. But you want security. What is it? What is it?

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We want self-esteem. Do esteemable acts. That's it. You're never going to find it in a book.

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You know, you can sit there and go to whatever the self-help guru is, which I don't think they're a

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bad thing necessarily. But again, it's a bandaid. You have to know that you are responsible for

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doing something good and build on that. And eventually you will have done more good than bad,

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even if you've only done bad. All you can do is start building on the good. And if you do enough

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good one day, the good will outweigh the bad and you will feel that it will become more of a default.

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It will become more of an intrinsic reality. Yeah. Well, that's a good point you made too, is

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people get hung up on the past, whether it's drinking, nutrition, whatever it is, infidelity.

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That's what I mean. But everything starts today. So yeah, you could be the world's biggest shitbag,

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but it doesn't mean that you can't change. Look at who you were. Therefore, we've judged you and

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you will always be that. And if you do, you flip-flop. You're wishy-washy. It's kind of like,

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I said it the other day and I pause at saying it, but fuck it, I'll say it anyway. I said to

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somebody last night who has kids the same age as my kid, and I was like, if there's not one point

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where you don't want to chuck your kid out the window, something's wrong with you.

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Something is actually wrong with you. You talk to these people like, I've never been mad,

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I've never gotten in a fight. And I'm like, then you've got to be sociopathic. You have to be.

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It's true.

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It's not that you've reached this point of guru heaven or Gandhi status. You are a human being.

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You have to feel all those things. It's what we do about them that's different.

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It's why we do need tools. It's why we do need mentors. When I think of Anthony Kemp,

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I just go, dude, I just want to be you. When I think of my buddy Anthony Zerbe, I go, if I can

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be a version of you when I'm older, I'm good. You still have electricity. You are still plugged in.

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You are still stoked by the day. You still see the possibilities. Tony Hopkins is so funny to me,

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man. I'd say, and thank God for Instagram in that way, that you have access to Tony Byham.

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Basically, losing his mind in the most fun way. But while he's doing it, he's composing amazing

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piano concertos or compositions or he's painting wildly or he's playing with his cat or doing

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something funny, whatever it is, his relationship with his wife. And I'm just like, is that because

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you have money or is that because of you? Because you have the ability to be yourself.

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And I have, in the last 40 years, for a guy who was a pretty nasty, drunk asshole, garnered and

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embraced some tools that has turned him into a pretty amazing human being and great power of

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example. Yeah, well, that's exactly it. To pretend that some of us are completely infallible and,

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for example, Ty, my little boy, the reason he ended up in basically with the Baker Act in a

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psych facility snatched from me was because he was in tears and he was going through some shit

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in his mother's home and everything that absolutely would upset any child. But he was just into,

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they got him doing a visualization thing. He was in tears and they said, you know, what's wrong?

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And he said, I hear this voice, you know, but he wasn't acting on anything, just sit on his own

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until he was asked. And it was about this kid that had been bullying him. And he ended up in there,

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they were like, oh, this is obviously a threat to the school then the next thing,

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he's locked away for three days. And I was so fucking angry. I can't even believe to tell you.

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My character that is. That's exactly what I think for every person that cuts me up on the road.

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I don't act on it, but I want to grab them out through the window. Sure. And, you know,

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teach them that that's not a cool thing to teach them, whether I could physically do or not,

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who knows? It's not going to fix anything. But do I have those thoughts? Absolutely. Of course. But

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he was punished for reacting to bullying from this little shitbag in his class and held himself in.

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And now what does that teach him? Oh, you know, you're, you're crazy to think those thoughts,

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you know? So yeah, I mean, to suppress the humanity of people is, I think, again, the road to a lot

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of the problems that we're seeing now. Because it's out of, it's outside of the norm. It's anomalous.

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So it's like, no, no, no, no, it would be better if you had those and you locked down and you smiled

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and you did the lesson. Yeah. And you did it well. You know, it's, it's, it's strange to me. It's

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like, I see it in Westland, you know, my daughter, she'll lock down. She'll lock down. If she falls,

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she'll look at you and say, bye bye, bye bye. Which means like, don't fret over me. Like, I don't want,

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I want to kind of deny this moment and just bear down through it. She's 23 months old, dude.

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So for me, on a very personal level, because each situation is different and each kid is different,

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I have to remind her, hey, it's okay to feel. Because I know I come across like that.

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You know, I just come across like that by nature. You know, if you get hit in the face, then you

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continue doing what you're doing. Or you hit back or whatever, but you bear down, you deal with it.

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You don't sit there and cry because you got hit in the face. But the truth is, the matter is,

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you do sometimes. Sometimes it just is humiliating and it sucks and it's awful and you feel scared.

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And that's okay. And I have to remind her that's, I have to remind a 23 year old who doesn't even

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know yet. It's okay to feel. It's okay to feel. So each, each situation is different. But I find it

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interesting. You know, there's that kind of natural what you're born with and then, and then who you

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become because of, you know, cultural conditioning and all that kind of stuff. But I don't believe in

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any of that, that anything should be a certain way. Everybody's different. Every culture is

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different. And that's why I say I love being in Atlanta, because there's incredible diversity.

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And I'm constantly hit with something new. I cannot relax completely and I'm happy about it.

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Yeah, no, absolutely. So that was kind of a good segue to something I want to talk about anyway.

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As you know, I advocate a lot for advocates, as long as the lame word, but, you know, I'm,

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I'm entrenched in people's health in general, but mental health is a big part of it, and especially

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in our professions. But, you know, there's always been this thing in the the entertainment world,

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whether it's actors, whether it's, you know, people in bands, that we've seen overdoses. And

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the sad thing was, it was like, well, you know, they, they were a junkie, they were whatever,

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you know, and it was almost looked down upon. So coming from the inside of entertainment,

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and obviously losing a close friend, Chris Cornell, like, what are some of your observations of

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the pressure of, you know, either pressure of the fame, or whether it's touring, whatever it is,

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but elements within that circle that you think are contributing to mental ill health in those

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professions?

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That's a big question, man. That's a big question. You know, there's this, again, with conspiracy

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theories, and Chris Cornell, and Chester, and all that coming out with, you know, child,

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child sex trafficking, and all that, and they were killed. You know, that's, that's one thing.

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I knew Chris really, really well. And I knew demons and lonelinesses and contractions and

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isolation that he was dealing with and all that. And just as a normal human being that had that

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going on. And when you're on tour, and I'm just kind of speaking, you know, out of my ass right

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now, but because I don't know, and I'm not him, but, you know, to me, there was a perfect storm

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that happened, you know, a little slip on medication and being by yourself from city to city to city to

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city to city, and not being with your family, and him getting older and feeling like he was losing

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his voice, and not having the support that a human being needs in a moment of real crisis.

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I get it. I've seen it a lot. I've seen it a lot. You were just talking about it earlier with fame

368
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and people who are, you know, suddenly they're, you know, they're hyper uber valued, and then

369
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:01,680
suddenly they have no apparent value. It doesn't change the value of who you are. It's just the

370
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:08,080
public perception of your value. And some people put a lot of onus in that. I don't. I don't know

371
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:15,120
why. I'm glad that I don't, but I'm probably not as successful as I could be if I did, because it

372
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:24,080
would mean more to me to get the accolades or the appreciation or the compliments and say, now I'm

373
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:30,320
in the right place. Now I have an Instagram account where there's only compliments. I'm good. I can

374
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:37,280
sleep well now. Have you got that yet? No. Fuck, dude. That doesn't feed off it. And then I'll get

375
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:44,000
back to what you're saying, but that doesn't necessarily feed off it. But that's a sociological

376
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:54,720
reality. There is a difference of opinion. There are reactions. There's a potpourri of different

377
00:37:54,720 --> 00:38:03,280
personalities. And I appreciate being in the middle of that on my chosen profile feed.

378
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:09,440
The bigger question of mental health and why is it getting worse when we have so much access to

379
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:16,320
things to quote unquote, make it better? Why? And I don't know the answer. I mean, you and I can

380
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:22,160
kind of go back and forth of why that is. But even in your book, you talk about this kind of

381
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:31,200
hero effect and firemen and fire people, fire women, fire persons. Firefighters. Firefighters

382
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:37,920
being perceived as heroes and being inhuman almost in people's minds to a certain point.

383
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:44,880
Every firefighter that drives by will stop always in wave. And I say to Wesleyan, I could cry saying

384
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:51,280
it, that thank you. Thank you for helping us. That's what we say every time. Like literally not

385
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:59,760
one truck goes by where we don't say that. And so again, there's a hero status, even that I'm

386
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:05,200
creating in my daughter, there's a hero status. And in that hero status, what? You don't need to

387
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,760
sleep, man. You don't need to take care of yourself. You're here for us. You're a hero.

388
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:15,760
You're Batman. You're Superman. There is no kryptonite to you. It doesn't exist. When the

389
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:21,280
truth of the matter is, is you're human. Firefighters are human. Firefighters die.

390
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:27,680
Firefighters go crazy. People go to war. There's PTSD. There's veterans killing themselves every

391
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:34,160
day because of what they experienced. It's amazing. You don't remember that. We like to stick with the

392
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:41,600
idea of this is patriotic. This is for your country. Go 18 year old just out of high school.

393
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,720
Go and do this thing. And I get it. And I'm a major advocate of it. I'm major support of our

394
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:52,640
of our troops. But there is another side of it. And the other side of it is we are fallible.

395
00:39:53,600 --> 00:40:00,480
You know, we are human. We are real. No one less or more than the next.

396
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:09,760
The few sociopaths that I could name. But they never got angry. Yeah. Anyway, I hope that answers

397
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:14,880
your question or at least starts a conversation. It does. I mean, another thing I think that I see

398
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:20,480
a parallel and of course, there's different paths between the military service and first responder

399
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:25,200
service and you know, whether you're in entertainment, but it is that regardless,

400
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:31,680
these people are put on a pedestal. And when they're loved and adored, then through their eyes,

401
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:38,080
everything's good. And there's no better analogy with the Britney Spears of the world where one

402
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:43,360
minute she's on cloud nine, the next minute she has a breakdown, all of a sudden, that's it.

403
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:50,320
She's the other side. And then the same with FDNY, EMS at the moment. When COVID first hit,

404
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:56,960
they were gods. Again, only perception. No support, no PPE flooding in, no pay raises,

405
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:04,000
no extra staffing, just claps, you know, and lights on buildings. But the moment that wave had come

406
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:08,080
and gone, now, sorry, actually, we're cutting a bunch of jobs. All the doctors and nurses that

407
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:15,040
staff these hospitals have got laid off, you know. So to me, I see that same shallow response that

408
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:20,720
we see in the music and entertainment world with the perception of the firefighters. And then

409
00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:28,240
something that I saw so much this year were posts on missing 912 because of what we're seeing,

410
00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:34,560
like you said about gratitude. There's none. We live in the most amazing country. And yet,

411
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,080
all we see on TV is a bunch of crybabies saying how everything sucks.

412
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:44,080
But yeah, but the other side of it, and it's so extreme, you see, I mean, you just said it,

413
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:49,520
you see a bunch of crybabies or you see a bunch of hyper patriots. You know, it's like talking

414
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:54,080
about the cops and defunding the police. It's like, is that the smartest thing to do? Probably not.

415
00:41:54,080 --> 00:42:04,720
But there's some shitty cops out there, period. There always have been. Watch Serpico. It's not

416
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:13,520
new, you know. There are always corrupt, fucked up people in every industry. All of Hollywood are

417
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:19,040
not pedophiles, all living under the same roof talking about how they can continue their sex

418
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:19,840
trafficking business.

419
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:25,280
They don't suck the adrenal glands out of small children whose faces just got ripped off?

420
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:30,480
Apparently. I mean, I'm reading a lot about it, but you know, again, it's like, and it's not to

421
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:38,000
take away from the severity of the people involved. And when that truly exists, but you blanket of the

422
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:45,200
events, of the actual events, you know, not all firefighters are perfect. And firefighter, I mean,

423
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:52,560
firefighters to me, I mean, that's, that's even me, man, you know, and I know a lot of firefighters.

424
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:57,840
And it's, it's, you know, I do put it on a pedestal. I can't help it. You know, that's why we

425
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:03,760
stop and we say, thank you for helping us. Thank you for helping us. But your weak links and your

426
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:10,080
weak links, you have to point out in order to make that chain stronger. And it's irresponsible not to

427
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:16,640
do it. So why we go to one extreme or the other just absolutely, totally fascinates me even, you

428
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:22,240
know, and I, it's, it's been so much the subject in you and I talking about it, but even me and

429
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:28,400
talking about, you know, this idea of liberalism, and I know I put up these videos and everybody

430
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:34,320
shit on it, whatever, and it's okay with me. It's actually okay because it, it shows me how extreme

431
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:42,800
things are right now. And it shows me sociologically where we're at. It's a great defining platform,

432
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:50,000
you know, it's a litmus test. Yeah, totally. And, and you go, that's all you see, Marx Socialist,

433
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:56,800
or Trump supporter right wing. You have to support this through and through no matter what,

434
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:02,640
is that it? Those are our only two choices. That's, that doesn't make me feel very good,

435
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:07,920
you know, and then you start looking in the, in, you know, moderate, you use that word moderate,

436
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,760
and then other people don't like that word. I've had a conversation recently about moderate,

437
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:19,040
and they're like, I was a moderate president. Me, me, me, me. That's how they see moderate.

438
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:26,320
Me, me. And you go, I don't see the extreme doing anything wonderful. I see a lot of chaos right

439
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:32,640
now. I know you didn't like Obama, but are we in a better situation now? We're more patriotic,

440
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:38,880
which makes you feel better because you want to feel good about your country. Totally get it.

441
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:47,680
I totally and completely understand being on a platform of feeling good about where you live

442
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:53,120
and who you are. But if you back up a little bit, what's the reality of that? Okay, we have

443
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:57,920
problems. How do those problems, is it even possible? You know, or are we headed out of

444
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:04,720
the democratic republic that we very really are in? And are we going into some other place?

445
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:10,480
Some, I don't know. I mean, again, these are all questions that, that come up in my head and I go,

446
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,800
you know, when you think about your children and all that, which I'm sure every parent has done,

447
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,560
what's this, you know, Elvis existed and they were like, oh my God, he's shaking his hips.

448
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:20,560
What's the world coming to?

449
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,680
Devil music.

450
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:29,200
Now we've got Cardi B, you know, and it's like, you know, I don't know, does that make it a

451
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:36,720
worse world? Does it make it a more, is free speech at an all time high? All over the place,

452
00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:43,120
because it is a big question mark. I'm not a politician. I don't know. And even if I was a

453
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,240
politician, I would never say that I know, because I think that's part of the problem.

454
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:52,400
This is my intention. This is what I would like to see. How can I collectively create it?

455
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:59,120
I'm looking out for my entire country. When I think of JFK, who was anything but a perfect human

456
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:05,600
being, you know, you talk about infidelities and all that kind of stuff. But as somebody who cared

457
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:12,880
about this country, I go, seems, seems pretty good. I think of Abe Lincoln, who nobody liked,

458
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:17,840
nobody liked, wasn't, you know, didn't he lose like five elections or something before he became

459
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:23,760
president? I'm not sure. Yeah, something like that, you know, seemed like a, like a, like a caring,

460
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:30,480
you know, was in the field, was down with the troops. I don't know. You know, the making

461
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,800
America great again, to me, goes back to something like that. It's like, are you going to be involved?

462
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,720
Are you really part of the, the collective of it, of it all?

463
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:44,080
Well, and I think that's the thing is, is to me, I think we are, it's, it's refinding our

464
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:48,160
greatness. We've always, you know, every country is great. Everyone should have pride of where they

465
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:52,320
live. And this whole greatest country in the world. Now you're starting to push it a little bit,

466
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:58,160
right? You know, there's a lot of great countries in the world. But what I see is a complete lack of

467
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:03,840
change when two sides argue with each other. I just put a post up the other day and it was

468
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:10,080
purely highlighting, and this was taken from annual stats in the U S that in a seven month period,

469
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:16,480
per the CDC, which is where we get all our stats from the moment, we would have lost half a million

470
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:23,920
people to obesity and smoking related diseases. One lady lost her shit. I've got COPD and asthma,

471
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:28,960
and you're saying that, and I'm like, you didn't even read what I fucking said. I'm advocating for

472
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:34,560
you. You don't have COVID. I'm saying where's the discussion about the underlying health issues?

473
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:40,320
And, and that's actually being suppressed. And the COVID thing, it's not anti, it's just, that's being

474
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:45,920
said, oh, it's being said to death. So we're fully aware of that. Can we please have a conversation

475
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:51,680
about the things that even if COVID hadn't shown up, was still slaying millions of people around

476
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:56,880
the world. But even that is lost between the left and right, you know, the, or the, you know, the

477
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:02,880
red and green or the whatever you want to, the zebras and giraffes, you know? And then so, and I

478
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,800
see that with the defund the police thing too. But, and then there's obviously, there's a lot of gray

479
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:13,120
areas where, in my opinion, because the police are underfunded, under trained, under armed, under

480
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:19,680
staffed, that we set them up for failure in many, many times, you know, but again, while there's

481
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:25,520
that whole war between these two extremes in the middle, nothing is improving. It's just getting

482
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:33,200
worse and then walking away. And I, a statistic, you know, that I read a while back about

483
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:43,600
other affluent countries, Germany, England, this, and the type of training that you need to endure

484
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:48,560
to become a police officer, a peace officer, a peace officer, remember when it was a peace officer,

485
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:57,840
and, and the training is exponentially more than in America. And yet you, you know, you, you, you

486
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:02,480
can't do that. You go, that feels like a bandaid to me. I understand that it makes everybody feel

487
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:07,760
better because you've seen those videos of these guys dying because of chokeholds and because of

488
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:12,000
holding onto the chokehold for too long. I mean, shit, we see it in MMA all the time. It's like,

489
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,400
when you tap out, man, and you have somebody sitting there watching, and if he's gone out

490
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:22,320
before he can tap out, get off him right now because it is life threatening. It's a life

491
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:30,320
threatening thing. I get it. But in some scenarios, it may be needed in violent scenarios. And I don't

492
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:35,280
know. I don't know. But the truth of the matter is it feels like a bandaid to me. You have more

493
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:42,160
training when there's more respect put into, I mean, that's another thing that I heard recently.

494
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:52,640
God, who was it? I heard deals with anti-corruption in Russia. And he's, and he's had a lot of different

495
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:58,640
jobs, a very high up guy. And he said, you know, most of these jobs in, in military and all that,

496
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:04,320
you have to be screened in every way possible. The one time, the one job that you don't have to be

497
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:09,360
thoroughly screened in is the presidency, which is amazing to me. And that's not even pointed

498
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:13,840
toward anybody. It's just the one thing that you don't have to be screened for. Really?

499
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:20,400
It seems like one of the things that should be essential that your character, who you are,

500
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:27,760
where you come from, what your reactions are, what your whatever. But anyway, I waylaid. We

501
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:33,200
were talking about something else and I got lost. Were you talking about the chokeholds and? Oh,

502
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:38,000
about, you know, the, again, the training, you know, you go into massive training, if it's two

503
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:45,200
years of training, how is that going to be a bad thing? And if I'm going to pay taxes, my taxes to

504
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:50,960
go to places like that, where you can, again, there's a confidence that comes with that.

505
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:57,840
There's a confidence that comes with training, that it becomes less reactionary because you have

506
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:03,120
the confidence that you can take care of a situation and therefore create friendship. Like,

507
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:09,200
yeah. I mean, the cop that we knew the best, what was his name? Smokey or something like that. My

508
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:14,880
mom had been pulled over. My mom was a very outspoken woman. She insped a lot and she got

509
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:20,880
pulled over by this motorcycle cop and she took his book that he said, signed the ticket and she

510
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:25,840
threw it out in the middle of the freeway. And he stopped traffic and he picked up his book and he

511
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:30,720
came back and he handed it to my mom again. And my mom loved that so much that they actually became

512
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:35,840
friends and he spent a lot of time at our house. They became friends. It just would never happen

513
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:43,280
now. The act of doing something like that, not that it was okay then, but again, there was a

514
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:48,080
confidence obviously in him and he didn't feel threatened. Whereas now you can imagine, yeah,

515
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:54,080
a woman did that and she got shot for it. You go, God, there's such a mistrust. How do you build

516
00:51:54,080 --> 00:52:00,480
that trust again? Confidence in training. Make sure that those policemen, which I don't think

517
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,320
that they would be against, it's like, oh, I want it to be as easy as possible so I can get there

518
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:09,440
and use my gun. And I want to be in the toughest scenarios. I want to be in war scenarios.

519
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:20,480
You go, God, man, that's a traumatizing moment. You know it in a fight. If you're in a fist fight,

520
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:25,120
there's not a lot of likelihood that you're going to remember it. It's going to be a blur.

521
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:30,080
You're going to be in a blackout. And I talked to a lot of guys, a lot of cops and all that,

522
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:36,720
and they were like, look, when I was in a firefight, I don't remember any of it. So you go into motor

523
00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:42,080
memory. How well are you trained in that? Reflex. How well are you trained in that motor memory?

524
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:49,600
You know, being under that kind of stress. I don't know, man. Again, I'm talking as a citizen.

525
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:54,320
I don't know. But that's good though, because normally it's members of the taxable population

526
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:59,200
on here. So that's an important perspective to get. And I think, you know, for me, any good

527
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:05,120
police officer, firefighter, dispatcher, corrections officer would want the hiring standards higher,

528
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:09,360
would want the training to be longer, would want to be better prepared and better equipped.

529
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:13,840
And you know, something I advocate a lot for too, have a work week that actually sets them up for

530
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:19,360
success, doesn't break them down, have staffing. I think all police officers should have two to a

531
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:24,400
car. Oh, it's budgets. We have more cars spread out. Yeah, but you know, now you're making these

532
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:29,280
people very vulnerable. As soon as they roll up on two people, that's two on one right off the bat.

533
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,440
You know, so, but then the other thing is, you know, as you know, I talk about a lot is reverse

534
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:38,080
engineering. Why do we have so much crime in the first place? And I think that, you know, personally,

535
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:45,600
my stance is the drug policy is just so broken and shown to, you know, be a complete failure

536
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:50,720
that we need to address that too, because most of this, when you reverse engineer, it goes to

537
00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:57,920
to drugs, you know, so creating a program that promotes mental health roots, you know, and

538
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:05,200
creating healthy Americans would be a much more progressive and cheaper option than locking away

539
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:10,160
every single person. How once you put police officers lives at risk to pull them over, you

540
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:15,760
know, just filling our jails and increasing, you know, 600% over 50 years, which is, you know,

541
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:21,600
scientifically is the absolute epic failure, right? But it's not masculine.

542
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:30,400
It's not masculine. It's not rehabilitation doesn't sound masculine, does it?

543
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:39,600
You know, say just say no to drugs. This is your brain. This is your brain. No, that's an egg.

544
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:45,920
You know, and that's the thing. And that's what we deny, you know, I've seen, I know what,

545
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:50,400
you know, I can't tell you how many people hit me up and say, let's have a drink. I'd love to

546
00:54:50,400 --> 00:55:01,520
have a drink and talk with you. I don't drink. I'm sober. But I don't, you know, for me sobriety has

547
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:10,560
been much less about needing a drink than what it gives you when you are not relying on this thing

548
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:18,240
that changes your chemistry, you know, so I'm witness to a lot of people in a community that

549
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:24,000
I love. I don't love the entire community because I think some meetings can be like a fucking wake.

550
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:28,080
It's horrible. It's like, why would you want to get sober? You see a bunch of guys like whining

551
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:34,000
about a bunch of shit. I don't know. Ball and chain and my wife and my this and my that. I'm like,

552
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:40,240
dude, you're killing everybody. It's horrible. I wouldn't want to do it, you know, and it and to me

553
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:48,080
that there is a community that I've seen that democratically works together. And that is also

554
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:58,640
scrappy punk rock, fun, electric, but is equally as heartfelt, supportive, vulnerable, real men.

555
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:06,960
I just saw that's a real man. That guy's tough as fucking nails. And yet he's talking about,

556
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:14,640
you know, tearing up at the idea of his kid trusting him and not putting his kid in peril,

557
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:22,800
because it's the masculine thing to do. I have a beater. I'm fucking chug some Jack Daniels.

558
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:29,040
I don't give a fuck. Drink you under the table. Yeah. You know, that's fine. OK, go on then.

559
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:35,920
Exactly. Johnny Cash was sober. Tom Waits is sober. They make you think they're not,

560
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:41,440
but they are. And they're and they're and they're more productive. And the people who weren't sober,

561
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:46,880
Dylan Thomas, great writer, stopped writing great things in his late 20s. Then it was shit.

562
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:52,880
And then he died. Hunter Thompson, such a great writer, amazing, you know,

563
00:56:53,440 --> 00:57:02,080
amazing technician of a writer, blew his face off. You know, that's the reality of what that does.

564
00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:07,040
Once it starts to catch up to you and get away with it in your 20s. And I feel very lucky because

565
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:13,120
I got away with it, even though I hurt a lot of people, I got away with it. And then I am doing

566
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:21,360
this. So I feel like I live two complete lives, you know. But. Again, I lost myself.

567
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:28,400
No, I was originally talking about the the prohibition thing and the addiction element.

568
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:33,440
The oh, yeah, the no, the house I live in a documentary, you know, they talk about it's a

569
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:37,520
you know, they talk about it's a great documentary and they talk about having lost, you know,

570
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:42,400
trillion dollars on the war on drugs and it's changed nothing. And now you have

571
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:48,480
psychopharmaceuticals and you have all these other drugs. But rehabilitation, I've seen it work.

572
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:55,600
I've seen it work when it's an attractive thing, you know, stay sober October. Great.

573
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:02,800
I think it's great. You Joe Rogan, whatever. I think it's fantastic. Why not? Why not play

574
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:08,960
with the idea of of of habit, of habituation, not that everybody's an alcoholic that has nothing to

575
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:16,480
do with it. Is it working for you as a relaxant or is it not? Does it become a habit? Is it a crutch?

576
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:20,720
And when it becomes anything becomes a crutch, I don't care if it's alcohol or anything else,

577
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:25,680
you know, poor or not, you know, I'm escaping, I'm escaping, I'm escaping. Well, I want to

578
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:30,800
challenge that now. I want to challenge it. I want to see why. I went to the dentist, my nine cavities

579
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:35,680
on my my my gum line because of the sugar and the nicotine pills. All right. I thought I was going

580
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:41,520
to get away with murder. I didn't fuck. Now I got to look at maybe I need to quit these. Maybe I need

581
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:46,720
to get away from them. Maybe, you know, nothing is for free. Nothing is is consequence. It's like,

582
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:55,360
look, what we've done has not worked. And it's a great example of sticking with something because

583
00:58:55,360 --> 00:59:05,840
it seems strong. And it's a complete failure. Can we release ourselves from the idea of having big

584
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:13,200
muscles and being more functional? And we look at something and say, Look, let's try something

585
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:19,280
different. It may benefit us all in the end. I mean, the prohibition of alcohol is a perfect

586
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:24,240
example. Like there's no, you know, Bugsy Malone, I mean, Al Capone, should I say,

587
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:29,200
anymore? You know, and I always joke like Jim Beane and Jack Daniels don't have gang fights,

588
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:34,720
right? You know, so does it change the mental health that the leaning on alcohol, the sad thing

589
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:38,720
is that becomes the elephant in the room now, right? You know, because we have an illicit drug

590
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:42,320
trade, and then we have the legal one. So as long as you're doing the legal one, you're fine. But

591
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:49,440
oh, this guy does, you know, benzos or whatever. So he's doing that, that masculinity point is

592
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:56,000
interesting. And it'd be kind of cool to get your perspective. I always point to Hollywood, a blanket

593
00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:01,120
statement, of course, but our match of this country other than put on a cowboy hat and you know,

594
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:06,720
say, get out and drink your milk and all that bollocks. But, you know, but I think to me,

595
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:12,880
that's, again, that that reality has got, as I point out to so many times, the real men on

596
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:17,120
Band of Brothers, that are in tears recalling what they went through in World War Two.

597
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:22,960
Yeah. Yeah. So what's the question?

598
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:28,960
That's a good point. That's a great question. So my so my thing is, what is, especially with

599
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:34,000
your dad being, you know, in the movies from, you know, around the time where I think we had the

600
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:43,280
shift like post World War Two, you know, what what have you witnessed about the perception of a man

601
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:48,640
and how that relates to our Hollywood male manly stars?

602
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:57,360
I would be part of that. And yet,

603
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:06,480
I think the old school ver I'm guessing, but I think the old school version is people tried to live

604
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:19,440
for the public. So they kept up a cosmetic notion of what they were perceived as in Hollywood.

605
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:20,480
On screen.

606
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:25,840
On screen. And I think that still exists. I think that's part of what people, you know,

607
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:31,280
it's kind of like, again, Instagram, why would you want to ruin your career by voicing your opinion?

608
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:40,560
It's not ruining my career. Like, it's my voice. If my if I said what you wanted me to say, you

609
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:45,200
wouldn't say that. So it's basically a personal thing. It has nothing to do with a professional

610
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:55,040
thing. The the the confusion is, is I shoot Mexicans. That's the confusion that I shoot

611
01:01:55,040 --> 01:02:01,600
Mexicans. It would you would really think that I'm finding gold in caves, too, which was the goonies.

612
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:04,080
Oh, that wasn't a documentary?

613
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:12,400
Yeah, no, that wasn't. For some, for some it is. And you go, oh, well, that's so far. It's very

614
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:19,120
real, you know, it comes across as very real. And it taps into something, a need again for masculinity

615
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:29,840
to look a certain way when I've only seen that get us in trouble, you know. The greatest men

616
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:39,440
in my experience are people who are willing to be a complete human being and not an idea.

617
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:46,560
And the greatest people that I've come across in the military are like that. And the people

618
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:53,920
I've come across, real heroes, like real heroes that you meet, that I've met,

619
01:02:55,360 --> 01:03:04,400
always seem to have a way about them that is not living up to that's not compensating for an

620
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:10,480
insecurity. You know, David Goggins is the only one I know that has held this thing a

621
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:14,960
fucking you gotta fucking run 100 miles. And you're right, David, you're right. You're right.

622
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:19,520
100 miles. And you run 100 miles and you're like, I'm gonna stop you and push you around 100 miles.

623
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:26,240
That's the only guy that's kind of stayed in that place where I'm kind of just more fascinated by

624
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:33,600
him. And or that's what works for his to promote his product. And that's a different self talk to

625
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:39,840
I think I think verbalizing it. Yeah, same way as Jocko, like Jocko definitely maintains his public

626
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:45,360
persona to hear who he really is. And some of the interviews where you know, he's around is his true

627
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:51,360
true friends. But but yeah, there's very much that, you know, and if there's an understanding of that,

628
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:57,120
but there's a lot of people who go around. And they're trying to emulate that constantly. And

629
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:02,960
I think by emulating that, not by being inspired by it is different, but really trying to emulate

630
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:08,400
it cosmetically takes away from who you are intrinsically takes away from the whole person

631
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:14,240
that you are. So yeah, you know, firefighters that, you know, again, across the board, you know,

632
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:21,040
are people who are the same guys that I can sit and have a cigar with and talk about a whole array

633
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:27,920
of insecurities or questions or instead of having to know the answer, somebody told me recently that

634
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:38,960
they hated when Obama went to Japan, that they hated that he bowed. I told you this before, right?

635
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:42,800
Well, I've heard a lot of people say and it's funny because I live in Japan. That's a sign of

636
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:47,520
respect. It's a sign of respect. Same way you don't leave your shoes on when you walk into the house.

637
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:54,160
Exactly. Exactly. But it was the act it was the the perception was that it was weak,

638
01:04:54,160 --> 01:05:01,520
that it wasn't American. And then you think of a real American, you know, a stand-up American like

639
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:11,120
Reagan from from certain, you know, points of view. And Reagan was the guy who actually signed

640
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:21,680
the apology to Japan for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Apology. The other one was a sign of respect for

641
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:28,240
the culture. One was an actual apology for even though it did in World War II and maybe it

642
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:35,120
maybe it saved more lives than it killed and the atrocity of what that that actuality that those

643
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:41,680
events were and the melting of children's skin and all that. It's just a fact, you know, it's not

644
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:48,800
unpatriotic to say that it's just a fact. It happened. So the fact that that Reagan signed

645
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:55,760
an apology for it makes sense to me. It's like we want to we're sorry that he brutal and so

646
01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:05,200
inhumane and we want to move past it and we want to do better, you know. And I go, yeah,

647
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:12,880
I respect you for doing that. That's big picture thinking. It's not small thing. The black guy

648
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:20,240
representing America bowed. Well, even conversely, finally, we have a black president and like, well,

649
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:26,800
from the same system. So, you know, same system. Did it change everything? No, I mean, I think,

650
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:33,360
you know, I think the diplomat in him, the interaction with foreign leaders, I thought,

651
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:38,160
you know, he was a very he presented himself well as a statesman, definitely one of the more

652
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:42,880
articulate presidents that we've had. But you know, this focus on all we need a woman, we need to,

653
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:48,640
you know, this color, we haven't had an Asian yet. I mean, for fuck's sake, let's get a system where

654
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:53,680
we can actually allow anyone in the US to run for that position. Right now, you have to be a

655
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:59,280
millionaire. How I mean that inherently and at its basis, and then that's not counting all the

656
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:05,920
lobbying, all this stuff that ends up with the same horrendous decision left out me and, you know,

657
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:09,760
told me, hey, hey, I love the podcast, but I can't listen anymore, because you're so disrespectful

658
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:14,240
to our president, you know, bye bye. And I was like, well, you know, firstly, I'm not heartbroken.

659
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:21,760
But regardless, I'm disgusted with our system. And we are in idiocracy right now. I don't care.

660
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:29,680
No one who, you know, when when they had multiple choices in each political party, no one was vying

661
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:35,600
for the last two we had last time. No one that wasn't their first choice. So don't pretend that

662
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:41,920
this is your, you know, your frickin Holy Grail now. So to me, you know, it's not about left or

663
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:46,800
right and anything, but it's, we can do so much better. We have, you know, you and I could name

664
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:52,240
100 people who would be amazing leaders, male, female or walks of life, but none of them are

665
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:55,920
going to get a chance to do it. And I think that's the problem is that everyone's arguing over these

666
01:07:55,920 --> 01:08:01,680
fucking idiots. I mean, you know, that the lesser of two evils should not be a sentence used in

667
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:05,760
selecting the person that represents a country of 330 million people. Right?

668
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:09,920
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. And I looked at that.

669
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:22,560
The debates, and particularly the presidential debate, and it was just, it was cringe worthy.

670
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:30,400
It was cringe worthy. You know, it was really, it just didn't, it was, and again, those are our

671
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:35,440
choices. That's our choice for right now. Well, so and so hasn't done anything in 47 years. Why do

672
01:08:35,440 --> 01:08:40,400
you want to do anything now? And then this guy has done so much. And then, and then there's, again,

673
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:46,160
it becomes an ill reality. You're not basing anything off. And now we're all, because we're

674
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:52,880
in perpetual fear of any fact being a fallacy. You don't know who to believe, who not to believe,

675
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:56,000
whether to vote, whether or not to vote, whether it's going to count, whether it's not going to

676
01:08:56,000 --> 01:09:01,360
count. So we're in all perpetual fear. We don't trust anything or anybody. There's nothing that

677
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:09,520
we can rely on, much less our politicians. And were they always corrupt? Yeah, there's always

678
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:17,840
a form of corruption with power, always. Like I remember talking to Jim Webb and him saying,

679
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:24,160
what the public knows is about 5% of what really goes on. Okay, yeah, that makes sense.

680
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:29,520
Makes sense, because you're a little bubble. You're all really not against each other and all that.

681
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:35,920
I mean, now I think they are, but I think back then they worked as a collective. You do me this

682
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:40,560
favor, I'll do you this favor, and you vote for this and I'll do that. And that was just the nature

683
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:51,920
of what it was. But now fear is so... Just a great sound. I think either turning a valve or choking

684
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:59,920
a dog in the back. Make it annoying. Yeah, and I don't know where to take that man. Because again,

685
01:09:59,920 --> 01:10:07,680
as a citizen, as a human being, I go back to where do you go? Where do you go now?

686
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:16,800
The Green Party, the Independent Party. I just voted and I saw Kanye on the Independent

687
01:10:17,440 --> 01:10:23,360
ballot. And I'm just like, okay, I don't even know how to react to that. Is it funny?

688
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:33,040
Is it meant to be funny? Was there a reason to get on the ballot? Are you really vying for that

689
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:44,800
position? Or has this become a joke? I understand the mentality and I know people who were Democrats

690
01:10:44,800 --> 01:10:51,200
who voted for Trump for the last election. And I understood it.

691
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:56,480
And I understood it when I talked to them about it because they were like,

692
01:10:56,480 --> 01:11:00,560
look, we don't trust politicians. What if a guy came from over here? And I go, well,

693
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:06,240
what about Ross Perot? Why didn't we go for Ross Perot? Because he sounded funny and he had big

694
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:15,600
ears. He's a small guy. He's too small. It's just like what... He didn't look right. We have a

695
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:21,680
cosmetic necessity. And it goes back to what you were saying. Yes, we need a woman in power,

696
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:27,440
just to say we did as president. We need a black person just to say we did. I don't know. What

697
01:11:27,440 --> 01:11:34,560
about Mexicans? Do we get a Mexican? When it comes down to it, who is the right person? Who is the

698
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:42,720
person who is expressing and that you believe has the most care for the collective well-being of

699
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:48,480
the United States of America? And does that even exist anymore? Or are we idealists and think that,

700
01:11:48,480 --> 01:11:56,320
look, that this country is still in a... It still has the possibility to think that way.

701
01:11:57,280 --> 01:12:03,760
Or do we really... Are we voting for somebody that... When I think, oh, I don't want to pay

702
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:07,840
taxes, so I want to vote for the guy who's going to do less taxes, whereas I know I'm going to pay

703
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:12,800
taxes, I know I'm going to pay taxes, and if I pay another 6% taxes, are they going to places that I

704
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:17,360
believe in and therefore I'm willing to pay that extra tax? That's how I feel about it.

705
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:25,280
I love saving money. When they talked about Trump, 750 bucks, and they were like,

706
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:30,720
no, that's not true. He actually paid 4 million in this. And I was like, he's a billionaire.

707
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:36,800
I made good money last year. I paid more taxes than he did, regardless of what number it was.

708
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:44,720
That's severe to me for a guy who 10 years ago was maybe clearing 30,000 a year. That's severe.

709
01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:49,600
I don't want to pay something that I don't want to pay. I want to be able to save all my money,

710
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:57,760
all the money that I earned, acting, saving the world from boredom,

711
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:02,160
the living mirror. And overpopulation.

712
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:09,440
Right, exactly. But I think that's again another conversation with two extremes.

713
01:13:09,440 --> 01:13:13,920
Like, I don't want to pay tax, too much tax, and the government's going to waste it all,

714
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:19,680
and all this stuff. Well, the happy medium is let's pay enough tax where everyone in the US

715
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:25,920
has health care, and let's put that money into prevention. So the next time we get a virus

716
01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:31,680
sweep through, we're more like Sweden and Finland and Norway because we're a very resilient, healthy

717
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:37,600
population. We can focus all our resources on the lesser amount of people that get sick.

718
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:40,880
But again, it's not. It's considered socialist. And that's bad.

719
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:42,560
Exactly. I'm a commie.

720
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:53,440
Forget you're a commie. You're a Marxist. And who knows what a Marxist is? About 0.00001%

721
01:13:53,440 --> 01:14:01,200
of the country even know who Karl Marx was. Clearing me. But the truth of the matter is

722
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:05,920
you're not, again, you're not looking at the reality of the subject. I've had a lot of,

723
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:10,880
I just went for, before I saw you, a PT for my ankle. I have a huge bone spur in my ankle.

724
01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:16,400
And I got knee issues. It's all on the right side. I don't know why something's wrong with

725
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:19,360
the left side of my brain. It's that giant glove that you had to hold on to.

726
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:25,120
It is. I mean, what it was, was that the left one? And I'm going to these things,

727
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:32,240
and I'm having to pay a deductible with most of them. But I'm going, I can't imagine I would have

728
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:36,160
to live with this. I remember what it was like living with sciatica for a year and a half. I

729
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:42,240
mean, it's a personality changer. It's a total personality changer. Perpetual chronic pain.

730
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:47,120
You wake up in the middle of the night, you have to take a pee, you're in pain, massive pain.

731
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:53,280
And I go, imagine if there was no help with this. Imagine if I had no health care. I can't even

732
01:14:53,280 --> 01:14:59,760
imagine. I would be broke right now for sure in the money that I've paid out in order to surgeries

733
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:08,560
and hernias and this and that. And to think other people don't have the access is amazing to me.

734
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:14,480
It's amazing to me. And then we get into the other thing that you talked about, which you and I,

735
01:15:14,480 --> 01:15:22,240
you know, we both have, you have knowledge of my familial situation and all that, and, you know,

736
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:30,960
and obesity and all this kind of stuff. And what is that? Is it ennui? Is it entitlement? Is it

737
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:37,360
whatever it is? Mental health? You know, and we get into like, look at the severity. We're going

738
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:42,720
to make, God, where was I? Decatur. And I know I'm going all over the place, but Decatur, which is

739
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:50,720
outside of Atlanta. And it was a very, very poor area, very, you know, African American, you know,

740
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:56,400
the majority. And yet there's a McDonald's, a brand new McDonald's right there, right in the

741
01:15:56,400 --> 01:16:02,400
center of it and another brand new KFC. And otherwise, everything else was from the 60s,

742
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:10,640
60s and 70s, all old school businesses and all that. Okay, so you're giving them access to the

743
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:21,280
worst fucking food you can put in your body imaginable, but it's the affordable one. Does that help? And I

744
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:30,080
just heard a story yesterday from my wife about how the Bahamas lost electricity for a year,

745
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:38,880
for an entire year. So you couldn't store food. You couldn't, you know what I mean? They're

746
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:42,160
better off now than they've ever, you can't sit there and watch Netflix and they're better off

747
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:46,160
now than they've ever been. They're healthier than they've ever been. I learned that for a second.

748
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:56,000
And that came out of, you know, a natural disaster, but they're better off for it

749
01:16:57,200 --> 01:17:01,920
because they have to go back and do this very basic thing of taking care of yourself. And you

750
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:09,280
don't even have that. We should go and get a cake right now at the pie place. Well, they can't because

751
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:14,480
it's not accessible to them. But they have papaya and they have fresh fish and all these things

752
01:17:14,480 --> 01:17:19,520
that are there. Yeah. I mean, the thing that you've said about the whole Marxist socialist, all this

753
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:26,640
thing, you know, I've made a remark, but it's true. Like, you know, so many of us believe in

754
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:32,080
philosophies that revolve around, you know, kindness, whether it's Jesus, whether it's, you

755
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:38,080
know, Buddha, whoever it is. And that's what they do. It says there in these books, like,

756
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:42,400
he wasn't hoarding all the fish and bread, you know, and he wasn't deep frying the fish and bread

757
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:47,600
and then selling it for 99 cents with side of fries. You know, he was, you know, taking care

758
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:53,440
of the people and going out there and the health, mental and physical health of the people in the

759
01:17:53,440 --> 01:17:58,320
stories that he interacted with, whether they were a prostitute, whether they were, you know, whoever

760
01:17:58,320 --> 01:18:02,960
it was, that was what it was fundamentally about. And yet for some reason we found ourselves now

761
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:09,440
where you want to have the same kind of thing in, you know, in your own country now. And again,

762
01:18:09,440 --> 01:18:14,400
you're a socialist if you want to stop elderly people feeling like they're having to work in

763
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:19,200
Walmart so they can pay their health insurance and then all but his ownership. Absolutely. But

764
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:25,680
you have to create an environment that promotes healthy choices. And like you said, no one,

765
01:18:25,680 --> 01:18:30,080
no one can deny the fact at the moment that our system right now is set up for failure,

766
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:35,920
which is why we have 70% of the population either obese or overweight. 70% 70%.

767
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:45,120
You know, the Jesus thing is, you know, paupers and and whores. And in Middle Eastern, by the way,

768
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:50,560
a dark skinned dude, and most of them had short hair, so he probably didn't have long hair.

769
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:58,880
Yeah. And again, it's not, we don't want that. So the difference is, and kind of what you're saying

770
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:06,640
is the thought of Jesus and the study of Jesus, the study of what he did and who he was is amazing.

771
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:12,000
It's a great, it's a great example, talk about a power of example to live your life and pattern

772
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:22,240
your life after, you know, the people less fortunate, you know. And religion is a different thing.

773
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:29,520
It's interpretations of that. It becomes a business. It becomes wasn't Marxist that?

774
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:32,960
Didn't they talk about that? I think I read something recently was Marxist was,

775
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:40,960
or maybe Karl Marx said, like the worst thing that can happen can be state and corporations

776
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:47,680
coming together and creating an entity there. It's just, it's too powerful. It's too controlling.

777
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:53,840
It's too, you know, and that's what's happened with us. So I guess I would be an anti-Marxist.

778
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:57,280
No, that's the thing. Like, we don't know which label to stick on my forehead.

779
01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:02,320
You know, is kindness and compassion an option? Because that's kind of where I'm coming from.

780
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:07,280
Kindness and compassion, you know, and that's going back to the Jesus thing. And that's the

781
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:13,440
example that again, how can I be less reactive? There was something that happened to me recently.

782
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:18,800
And I think with time, what we were talking about this in the beginning, a new default,

783
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:32,480
you know, a building block of, of, of what did I call it? What did I say? Not insecurity,

784
01:20:32,480 --> 01:20:38,480
but anyway, whatever I said, I'll remember in a second, but building your confidence and building

785
01:20:38,480 --> 01:20:44,080
self-esteem, building self-esteem, doing a steamable acts. And, and you go back to,

786
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:48,240
to doing that when you create it, when you, when you, when you, when you are sensitive to other

787
01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:54,400
people and you create that new default. And if you do it enough, I found myself reacting. And the

788
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:59,680
older I get, and the more I apply those tools, the less I follow through on my reaction.

789
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:04,400
So I heard a guy speak the other day and I was irritated by it because it was really personal.

790
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:11,200
And I was like, what is this guy's like? Basically we're his couch right now. And he's going,

791
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:18,320
you know, we're his therapist. And, and I found myself getting reactive. And then I got, and then

792
01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:24,160
I questioned it. And then the reaction was, oh, there's personal stuff that I don't want to look

793
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:31,520
at, abuse and all this kind of stuff. And, and, and I'm very much like, you know, I'm a motivator

794
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:36,640
and I motivate myself and I got that rocket fuel behind me and I got that burner going and, and,

795
01:21:36,640 --> 01:21:41,200
and I live my life and I forget sometimes to go back to this grounded place of like,

796
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:50,240
or have you dealt with all those little reactions in your, in your life on a daily basis? So you're

797
01:21:50,240 --> 01:21:57,360
coming from a much calmer, much more connected place to yourself, much more real place. And then

798
01:21:57,360 --> 01:22:01,760
I, so I caught that reaction and I was like, how funny had nothing to do with the guy. He wasn't

799
01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:07,760
doing anything wrong. It was me. It was the, what it created in me. And actually when I came to terms

800
01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:12,640
with it, it was a great thing. So I thanked the guy afterwards. I was like, thanks for the irritation

801
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:18,880
because I'm a better guy because of it. Cause I saw it was for me and I realized, oh, I should

802
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:23,600
probably go back into this. And then I did. And I just felt better. I'm a better human being because

803
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:32,240
of it. But most of us, including myself don't have that or I didn't have it. That's for sure.

804
01:22:32,240 --> 01:22:38,640
I lived in my reaction. I lived in an idea of something and I can't anymore because it's

805
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:43,920
irresponsible. And I find it irresponsible in other people. Cause all I see is the reaction or

806
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:50,160
the idea that they're trying to transpire. And I go, it's not real. I don't, I don't see the you in

807
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:55,600
there. You know, I would love to, I like to experience, and I have more and more with friends

808
01:22:55,600 --> 01:23:00,480
with you. You're a great example. You know, you put it out there. We may not agree on everything.

809
01:23:00,480 --> 01:23:05,520
We're finding our way through this interview. We're pontificating about this and that. Does it have,

810
01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:11,680
you know, when you do a podcast, you want things to land, man, you know, it's like you're fucking

811
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:19,600
Thanos killed half the universe. You know, that's, we saw that movie. That's it is what it is,

812
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:26,800
you know, but we don't want to meander. And the truth of the matter is, is there, there is gold

813
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:31,520
in the meandering because you can meander with others. You meander with a collective and you come

814
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:38,160
up with what would be best for all of us. And it sounds like even when I say it, I go, oh,

815
01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:49,760
fluid, where's the muscle in that? But there is, it's just a deeper muscle. Maybe not such a,

816
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:52,960
it's not a steroidal muscle. It's a yin and a yang.

817
01:23:55,680 --> 01:24:00,480
Well, you mentioned about the gentleman doing the comment. And I know that's something that,

818
01:24:00,480 --> 01:24:07,760
you know, I see the frustration in you. I see it with other people, but it's definitely identified

819
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:13,920
as an issue in mental health in kids. So I've had discussions with psychologists, but, you know,

820
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:20,800
the trolling, the shit that you have to deal with on social media. And I'm very lucky. I get once

821
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:24,400
in a while and I just, you know, it's so few that I'm able to just pinpoint and block and

822
01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:28,080
take them out. And it's not for someone disagreeing, someone just being a complete

823
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:34,320
asshole. But, you know, what, how do you perceive that? What impact does it have,

824
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:38,640
especially with this whole, well, you're an actor, so you just need to shut the fuck up.

825
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:42,160
Because I see how frustrating that must be. It's like saying you're a firefighter and you need to

826
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:47,040
shut the fuck up. Yes, that's my profession. There's no difference. And you came to my personal

827
01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:51,840
page, FYI, you sought me out. Yeah. So what, you know, tell me about some of your frustrations and,

828
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:57,280
well, there's a frustration that I don't want to have that I have as a human being

829
01:24:57,280 --> 01:25:05,440
that I don't want to have. And I don't want to get into self-pity and how dare you question me

830
01:25:05,440 --> 01:25:13,440
and how dare you try and shit on me because of my own malleable belief system that I'm still

831
01:25:13,440 --> 01:25:19,040
trying to figure out, you know, who am I? I grew up in the country. I was down in the urban,

832
01:25:19,040 --> 01:25:23,120
you know, I have Republican friends, I have Democratic friends, I have extreme friends,

833
01:25:23,120 --> 01:25:28,400
I have extreme friends, I have non-extreme friends, I have moderate friends. So how do I get along

834
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:33,600
with so many people? What's the through line? The through line is respect. I have respect for you as

835
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:40,800
a human being. And then I see on social media, which I felt long before any of this political

836
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:52,320
stuff was you are manifesting. I did a movie called Hollow Man, and I found it a great opportunity

837
01:25:52,320 --> 01:25:59,760
that was not met. But I found it a great opportunity. Given invisibility, what would you

838
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:06,160
where would you naturally would you do things that were covert and, and, and what's the word?

839
01:26:09,920 --> 01:26:11,120
Man, my fucking brain,

840
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:18,240
covert and kind of toward the negative, or would you do things that are beneficial to others,

841
01:26:18,240 --> 01:26:23,840
you know, and I always thought that was a really cool thing about that movie that we never hit on,

842
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:34,400
but regardless. And that's that thing where you go, am I naturally, am I this guy who's gonna,

843
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:40,480
who's gonna help? Am I gonna help humanity? Am I gonna do something for the benefit of others? Or

844
01:26:40,480 --> 01:26:45,680
am I gonna do something against, you know, what were we talking about before when you first,

845
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:51,360
when you first brought it up? Or just about the, the comments and you know, being told

846
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:53,680
you're just an actor. Oh yeah, yeah, it's the social media thing. Yeah. And so,

847
01:26:54,400 --> 01:27:02,560
consequenceless reaction, and what people suddenly felt the liberty to say, because I know there was

848
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:08,320
no, there was no consequence. I can say whatever I want to say. But the hard part is you don't know

849
01:27:08,320 --> 01:27:16,000
if the person's 14 or 80. Like you just don't know. They can put up any picture they want. They can

850
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:21,840
put up any kind of post that they want. They had 170 posts of their dog. You don't know who they

851
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:26,400
are. So I don't even know who I'm reacting to. Fuck you for just saying what you said. It could

852
01:27:26,400 --> 01:27:33,200
be a 14 year old, destroying that person's life by deciding to, you know, counterattack. So you're

853
01:27:33,200 --> 01:27:38,720
constantly thinking of that. But then you get into where the world is right now, which is very

854
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:44,480
different. You can see it through social media in a big, big, big way of people reacting to,

855
01:27:45,440 --> 01:27:53,120
to me, you know, voicing my opinion or voicing, you know, whatever my thought is for that morning

856
01:27:53,120 --> 01:27:59,920
or that evening. And, and, and, and it's, you know, I read something I actually DM, you know, I,

857
01:27:59,920 --> 01:28:04,240
I don't even want to say this, but I, it's just an admittance of what I do. And I don't want to ask

858
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:09,200
for any more of it, but I'm sure I'll get it is, you know, I'll reach out to people sometimes.

859
01:28:09,200 --> 01:28:14,960
I'll be like, call me motherfucker, you know, or, or I call somebody and it's, and it's interesting

860
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:20,560
to me, especially extremists. Well, I'll have these conversations and I'll find in the conversation

861
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:24,400
somewhere, we'll be screaming at each other in the beginning. My wife is like, what is the matter

862
01:28:24,400 --> 01:28:30,800
with your brain? And, and, and then I'll hear things like, well, heroin, you know, like drugs,

863
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:33,760
for example, heroin addicts, there's no point, might as well just kill them all.

864
01:28:35,440 --> 01:28:39,280
And you go, wow. And they go, I met a heroin addict. There's no way they can get sober. It's

865
01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:44,160
impossible. I go, not in my experience. In my experience, I see it almost every day

866
01:28:44,160 --> 01:28:54,000
with collective support, not a very masculine word or words, you know? So again, that guy,

867
01:28:54,000 --> 01:29:00,560
I'm thinking of one guy in particular was convinced of certain things. It was almost like he was

868
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:07,600
reading a manual of what's been fed of this is what it is. If you're this, you're a socialist.

869
01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:13,920
Are you positive? What if I have no interest in social or what if socialism, you know, whatever.

870
01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:22,560
And, and so that, and then it comes down to a very human place, where suddenly we're having

871
01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:26,640
a conversation, we're respecting each other. And it's a totally different thing. I think

872
01:29:26,640 --> 01:29:31,520
that's because it's more, even though that's on the phone, it's more face to face. Whereas

873
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:36,400
there's something else that happens when there's this idea of writing and responding to somebody

874
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:42,640
without consequence. I think there's something evil that resides in us all that just wants to

875
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:50,000
win. And I think that's a very, very dangerous thing personally. I know it's it, it, it, it,

876
01:29:50,480 --> 01:29:56,480
I think it belongs in certain in war. If we're protecting ourselves, if we're truly defending

877
01:29:56,480 --> 01:30:02,160
our own land or an ally's land, you know, then you get into a frame of mind, like when you fight a

878
01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:07,440
fire, fire, you know, you go in there and you literally, your life becomes secondary.

879
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:14,400
And you have to train yourself to go into that place. And I know it's like, this doesn't matter.

880
01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:19,920
What matters is I do this thing. I save other people like, you know, extinguish this fire,

881
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:27,440
whatever it is. The other extreme is I got it recently. Somebody said, I can't wait to see you

882
01:30:27,440 --> 01:30:35,760
hung from a noose. And I DM the guy and I said, did you just say quote, hung from a noose?

883
01:30:37,840 --> 01:30:42,640
And then he erased it. He erased the comment. And I never heard back from him because I'm sure he

884
01:30:42,640 --> 01:30:47,920
got scared that, well, he could get in trouble for that because that's an actual life. And I

885
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:53,440
don't know if he knew that. I don't probably wasn't the intention. But again, when you're in

886
01:30:53,440 --> 01:30:59,360
that position of consequentialist reaction, you're not thinking in those terms. You're just trying to

887
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:03,920
make an impact. I want to, and then there's the other thing about like, I just want to get the

888
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:09,840
guy to react. You know, I got Thanos to react. Thanos is writing me back. You know, he's pissed.

889
01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:13,440
What did you say to that? You said fucking what?

890
01:31:13,440 --> 01:31:19,200
Exactly. And then what I said, you know, I just think it's a very interesting, like I said,

891
01:31:19,200 --> 01:31:29,600
sociological. It can be a great sociological study. But I think on a more human level, it's

892
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:35,600
a very irresponsible platform because it's not natural. What's natural is this.

893
01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:39,520
Yeah. And that would be an immediate, you know,

894
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:43,520
If you said something that was really insulting to me, I'd be like, what's happening?

895
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:50,400
Yeah. What's happening? Do I defend myself and my family's here? And now you've put me in a

896
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:56,800
position where I need to protect my family. And then that becomes something different. But it's

897
01:31:56,800 --> 01:32:02,640
specific. You're here. And if you're not here, I don't have to worry about you. At least that I

898
01:32:02,640 --> 01:32:08,880
know of. You know, whereas there, it's so much, it's elusive. And I think it lends to this just

899
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:20,000
kind of generic, general fear. This fear that is always there, that there is nobody to trust.

900
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:27,520
There is nobody. And especially like I'm a 52 year old, fairly well-educated,

901
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:36,880
human being at this point. And if I was 18, dealing with what I deal with, forget it. Forget it.

902
01:32:38,240 --> 01:32:43,120
I mean, there's just no way. I mean, you get into this, which is a whole other subject,

903
01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:50,320
but you get into suicides and all that. You go, oh yeah, for sure. For sure. If you're looking

904
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:57,920
for what friends give you, for what mentors give you, for what parents give you,

905
01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:07,840
for what should be that natural support on that platform, forget it. You're done.

906
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:12,640
Yeah. My thing is, if you keep looking, and I say, if you, when I keep looking at my phone,

907
01:33:12,640 --> 01:33:19,840
I don't care about followers. I mean, I value the people that are invested in the podcast. And I

908
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:23,680
think that the Instagram and that is an extension of that. And that's fantastic. I'm going to try

909
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:28,240
and put positive stuff out, but as far as how many likes and all that stuff, it's irrelevant. But

910
01:33:29,280 --> 01:33:35,120
as a well-put together person that really doesn't, I still find myself reflexively looking and

911
01:33:35,120 --> 01:33:40,320
you know what I mean? I'm still looking at my phone. I'm still looking at my phone. I'm still

912
01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:46,320
reflexively looking and you know what I mean? So if that's that addictive to someone who's really

913
01:33:46,320 --> 01:33:53,360
not that invested in that platform, Ty was his bloody mother gave him Instagram around the same

914
01:33:53,360 --> 01:33:58,400
time he was having issues. And thank God after that happened, I was able to take it away again.

915
01:33:58,400 --> 01:34:06,480
But it was that measuring up to people element too. So you get this facade on Instagram,

916
01:34:06,480 --> 01:34:12,080
and whatever people are passionate about, whether it's some dude that runs around rages with his

917
01:34:13,040 --> 01:34:19,600
weapon, or if it's these millionaire kids that have these YouTube channels or tie watches,

918
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:23,840
they know we've got a bounce house in the back and a pool. And these regular kids are looking at

919
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:28,560
it. Oh, that's normal. Therefore, I must suck a little bit. No, that's not normal. That's a

920
01:34:28,560 --> 01:34:34,480
billionaire's child who lives in a mansion and it can rent out an entire roller rink just to play

921
01:34:34,480 --> 01:34:38,720
their airsoft game, whatever the fuck they're doing. You know, but all these, like you said,

922
01:34:38,720 --> 01:34:44,160
all these little narrow field lenses that people are getting into these lives. That's another

923
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:49,360
element of this is just so so unhealthy. Yeah, they're in your house all of a sudden.

924
01:34:50,160 --> 01:34:53,920
They're in your house. And that's goes back to what I was talking about and being able to

925
01:34:53,920 --> 01:34:58,480
celebrate somebody and being able to say it's different. That's your friend, that's your,

926
01:34:58,480 --> 01:35:05,120
you know, acquaintance or whatever. Instagram, it's like suddenly you're that's what I'm saying.

927
01:35:05,120 --> 01:35:10,880
It's all suddenly personal. You know, when I know the rock, if it wasn't for Instagram, no,

928
01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:18,160
we haven't done a movie together. Yet. Thanos returns with his twin.

929
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:27,680
And I can't wait. I can't wait. You know, but he and I go back and forth

930
01:35:29,360 --> 01:35:36,000
on on Instagram. And that's, you know, that that's purely based on a social platform.

931
01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:39,360
So really, it's not real.

932
01:35:39,360 --> 01:35:45,680
But is it, you know, and yet the positives of it, if you can be disciplined enough, which you can't,

933
01:35:46,640 --> 01:35:54,000
is I've met so many writers, so many artists, painters, I've been turned on to so many people,

934
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:59,600
people who I have in the house, you know, whose work I have in the house and whose work I appreciate

935
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:05,200
as writers and all that, because you have access to that where I wouldn't normally have access.

936
01:36:05,200 --> 01:36:14,000
So there is a positive. There is a positive. But I find it becoming, you know, I'm lost in the subject

937
01:36:14,000 --> 01:36:22,240
now, but I find it becoming more damaging. You know, I don't know if you saw the social dilemma.

938
01:36:22,240 --> 01:36:28,000
I did. Amazing. Amazing. Amazing. But then you get into that and you have all these people who

939
01:36:28,000 --> 01:36:33,920
basically, you know, came up with these algorithms that are so powerful, so powerful, so powerful,

940
01:36:33,920 --> 01:36:38,480
came up with these algorithms and came up with phones and Instagram and all that, who are all

941
01:36:38,480 --> 01:36:45,120
across the board like this is bad. It's gone bad. And started with their intentions were definitely

942
01:36:45,120 --> 01:36:51,040
good. Great. How can I remember when email started and I was like, what a great thing,

943
01:36:51,040 --> 01:36:56,400
we can start writing letters again, can actually start writing again. Why is this a bad thing?

944
01:36:56,400 --> 01:37:02,480
It's not a bad thing. I used to write, dude, I've got thousands of pages of emails, Cornell and I,

945
01:37:02,480 --> 01:37:08,960
forget it, hundreds of pages of emails, you know, fun. I put it all out into a book that I can read

946
01:37:08,960 --> 01:37:14,960
myself, not for public consumption, but I go through it and I look at those emails and we would go off

947
01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:24,000
fucking pages. Just great. You know, very poetical and fun and personal and revealing and right.

948
01:37:25,440 --> 01:37:31,280
That's a, that was a positive to me. You know, this Instagram was a positive to me when I started

949
01:37:31,280 --> 01:37:38,560
because it was a great way to brevity and writing, you know, short stories have always been harder

950
01:37:38,560 --> 01:37:44,160
just across the board, the novels, because you have to be very, very specific and condensed.

951
01:37:45,040 --> 01:37:52,160
You know, it's a, it's a, it's a structure that you have to keep, you know, somebody's attention

952
01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:59,120
and you can't meander necessarily, you know, and, and I loved the idea of putting out these kind of

953
01:37:59,120 --> 01:38:05,680
poetical, you know, things and having to stay within, I think, I don't even remember what it was,

954
01:38:05,680 --> 01:38:12,800
but it was like 130 characters or 160 characters that turned into 320 characters words and all that.

955
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:17,040
I love that idea. That's, I denied Instagram forever. I was like, why would I want to do that?

956
01:38:17,040 --> 01:38:24,160
It's just stupid, you know, more self promoting, no thanks. And then, and then that, so that was my

957
01:38:24,160 --> 01:38:31,360
kind of in into it. And then now you see me doing fucking five minute videos about the state of our

958
01:38:31,360 --> 01:38:36,800
country. The fuck happened to me. And it's true. There's a part of me that's like, what do you,

959
01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:44,160
what do you, why just promote your work and do what you do. And the country is going to be what it is.

960
01:38:44,160 --> 01:38:48,640
But it is, it's the same way as this. I think that's why podcasts are so popular. I listened to

961
01:38:48,640 --> 01:38:54,480
a couple of fantastic ones with Andy Stumpf on the way up here and he had Mike Glover,

962
01:38:54,480 --> 01:38:59,200
who I've got coming on and then a couple of Navy Seals, one who sounds like a, I mean,

963
01:38:59,200 --> 01:39:07,360
absolute badass, but now through his own personal journey with using Sila Simon to get over his PTSD

964
01:39:07,360 --> 01:39:14,240
now runs an addiction center for the Seals, you know, so, but, you know, so, so these platforms

965
01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:18,960
can be very powerful and then can be a way of voicing, but the moment, as we said, there's

966
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:25,360
extremes when those people start chirping off, you, they nullify the actual middle ground message.

967
01:39:25,360 --> 01:39:30,800
And that's what's so, you know, frustrating even for me. And I'm on a much, much smaller scale.

968
01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:36,800
I've got a friend who just, um, it's not the same post started sending me all these things

969
01:39:36,800 --> 01:39:41,040
that the government's done to help stop smoking. And I'm like, and he, this guy's well invested

970
01:39:41,040 --> 01:39:47,200
in CrossFit and everything. So he's a, he understands wellness, but I'm like, you're missing

971
01:39:47,200 --> 01:39:52,800
the entire point. No one's negating COVID. We're just saying for the love of fucking God, can we

972
01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:56,880
talk about this other thing? So I think that's what's frustrating is when you have a middle of

973
01:39:56,880 --> 01:40:01,120
the road message, you're just trying to say, Hey, here's some common sense. This is what's on my

974
01:40:01,120 --> 01:40:05,840
mind. And I'm hoping it might sow some seeds on the people. And that's kind of as a group,

975
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:11,360
collectively try and elevate, you know, our country. It just gets shot down by these shitbags.

976
01:40:11,360 --> 01:40:15,600
And what's the point? What's the point in shooting it down? Exactly. Because you, again,

977
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:19,040
you get a little tingle in your special place and you know, you high five your mum before you go to

978
01:40:19,040 --> 01:40:26,480
bed. You know, that's, that's good. I like that. That should be the motto for your podcast. Um,

979
01:40:26,480 --> 01:40:32,320
yeah, I, that's what I don't understand. You know, again, going back to, you know, you and I

980
01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:41,840
spoken before about Wilmington on fire, you know, you have a society post civil war that is integrated

981
01:40:41,840 --> 01:40:48,080
and doing very well. And then you have somebody or a group of guys that just decided, I don't like

982
01:40:48,080 --> 01:40:54,560
this. I'm going to change it. Yeah. Based on ultimately money and power and always pigmentation.

983
01:40:54,560 --> 01:40:59,840
Always. Yeah. Yeah. But the excuse is pigmented. Oh, exactly. That's the, that's the excuse I can

984
01:40:59,840 --> 01:41:03,120
use. What if they were all white and one's doing better than the other? You can't, you don't really

985
01:41:03,120 --> 01:41:06,720
have a scapegoat there. Yeah. Well, I mean, look at the Irish, they're white and they got treated

986
01:41:06,720 --> 01:41:12,560
like shit. You know what I mean? So, you know, that's the thing. Colin, my buddy, Colin Broderick

987
01:41:13,120 --> 01:41:18,480
wrote Church Inn, which is a novel that just came out that, you know, recently and I've been

988
01:41:18,480 --> 01:41:24,720
reading it and because I have a kid, I can't, you know, it's like sitting down for an hour and then

989
01:41:24,720 --> 01:41:29,760
reading and then, but it's so good. It's so good. And it talks about, you know, this character who's

990
01:41:29,760 --> 01:41:36,480
really him during the troubles in Ireland. And you're a Catholic, North Irish, you're a North

991
01:41:36,480 --> 01:41:42,640
Irish Catholic and you're basically seen as a piece of shit in your own country. You're garbage.

992
01:41:43,360 --> 01:41:49,440
So you're going through British, you know, borders and all that. And they're, they're asking, they're

993
01:41:49,440 --> 01:41:59,040
trying to instigate something that will allow them to shoot you with cause. They were, they were riled

994
01:41:59,040 --> 01:42:06,080
up and they're already a piece of shit because they're Irish and they're Catholic. So I shot him,

995
01:42:07,120 --> 01:42:13,680
which is what we're supposed to do, get rid of them, decided who, at what point, this was their

996
01:42:13,680 --> 01:42:18,000
country. And it's crazy because you've got Catholics and Protestants, which are both

997
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:24,800
Christians. Christians. For the love of God. No pun intended, but you believe in the same damn

998
01:42:24,800 --> 01:42:29,360
things apart from some, you know, small print. The damning. Yeah. Apart from the damning.

999
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:34,000
You go to hell, you don't necessarily go to hell. You're going to find out anyway,

1000
01:42:34,000 --> 01:42:38,160
so it's not even worth arguing about. You know what I mean? That's what I mean. There's nothing.

1001
01:42:38,160 --> 01:42:45,200
And it's such a strange reality. You know, it's like, it's almost like out of boredom. It's like,

1002
01:42:45,200 --> 01:42:49,440
what do we do? You wake up one morning, like I don't, anybody wears black. I forget it.

1003
01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:53,680
Anybody who wears pink shorts, you go around Atlanta, there's a lot of pink shorts around

1004
01:42:53,680 --> 01:42:59,120
here. I don't understand. Too many pink shorts. Way, way, way, way too many. And a lot of starch.

1005
01:42:59,680 --> 01:43:05,840
I don't understand it. I don't understand big golfing community. And I laugh every time I see it.

1006
01:43:06,480 --> 01:43:12,000
But can you imagine pointing that out? What makes me laugh? What makes me chuckle as a,

1007
01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:18,000
as a country Californian? Imagine if I just demonize those people right away. And I was

1008
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:24,880
like, those people need to go. I've moved to Atlanta now and they need to go. That's it.

1009
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:33,120
It's ridiculous. The idea of it is ridiculous. Yeah. So is the idea of telling someone who is

1010
01:43:33,120 --> 01:43:40,720
African descent to go back to Africa when their ancestors were dragged here kicking and screaming

1011
01:43:40,720 --> 01:43:44,640
in the first place. But you don't want to believe that. You don't want to believe that Jesus was

1012
01:43:44,640 --> 01:43:51,280
Middle Eastern. You don't want to, you just don't. It goes away from like, what? Oh man,

1013
01:43:51,280 --> 01:43:55,440
we've spent a lot of time creating this other thing that we're comfortable with,

1014
01:43:55,440 --> 01:44:01,360
that we're saying one of us, the house next door looks just like us. We don't have to deal with

1015
01:44:01,360 --> 01:44:04,720
any Indians or any blacks or anything. And that person's white and I trust them.

1016
01:44:04,720 --> 01:44:10,720
So the other thing is, I mean, the sad thing is that's obviously a small percentage of people

1017
01:44:10,720 --> 01:44:16,320
that think that way, but it's represented like it's the whole country where I live. And I've

1018
01:44:16,320 --> 01:44:22,080
talked about this a lot. The community is awesome. My neighbors are from India, China, you know,

1019
01:44:22,080 --> 01:44:26,000
we've got all different skin colors and creeds. I'm obviously British. So I'm not, you know,

1020
01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:34,320
native, not native American or native American. You know, so, and everyone gets on fine. And it's

1021
01:44:34,320 --> 01:44:39,120
awesome. And we have a Facebook group and we, you know, tell each other when someone's car got

1022
01:44:39,120 --> 01:44:43,920
broken into and all the things that neighbors would do. So then when I see this division

1023
01:44:43,920 --> 01:44:50,640
and this divisiveness being shared on the television, me personally, I see small pockets

1024
01:44:50,640 --> 01:44:55,680
of people and I don't know how the fuck do they get, you know, the talking stick where they

1025
01:44:55,680 --> 01:45:01,520
represent the entire 50 states of the U S when the reality is these are pockets of shit bags from

1026
01:45:01,520 --> 01:45:07,280
me the side, they then go and hang out opposing each other and poking each other with sticks.

1027
01:45:07,280 --> 01:45:10,800
And that's supposed to represent this whole country. I mean, I just, I don't understand that.

1028
01:45:10,800 --> 01:45:16,880
It exists and it exists for whatever reason it exists because extreme situations and people

1029
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:22,880
exist in every walk of life, every profession, every this, but it doesn't represent the whole

1030
01:45:22,880 --> 01:45:27,280
of America. It literally doesn't represent the whole of America. And what's interesting is,

1031
01:45:27,280 --> 01:45:34,240
and this may be part of it, this back to social media thing, you know, I posted a video and I

1032
01:45:34,240 --> 01:45:43,280
would say 80% of the comments were not only divisive, but, but violent almost. And I was like,

1033
01:45:43,280 --> 01:45:48,960
those are all my followers and it wasn't what it came to be. What I came to learn was, oh no,

1034
01:45:48,960 --> 01:45:53,360
these are people that just stayed out of it. They were like, this is so extreme and most people

1035
01:45:53,360 --> 01:45:57,600
aren't that extreme and it is scary for them. And maybe that's the point. Maybe that why these

1036
01:45:57,600 --> 01:46:02,720
people come in and they want you to be afraid. They want you to contract. They want you to be

1037
01:46:02,720 --> 01:46:11,520
a hermit crab that goes back in their shell so they can control it. And that's, I don't know.

1038
01:46:14,000 --> 01:46:21,280
I don't understand that mentality. I understand a masculine war mentality. I understand being

1039
01:46:21,280 --> 01:46:26,880
there for your brother. And like you said, brothers war, you know, it's, there's a camaraderie

1040
01:46:26,880 --> 01:46:31,040
there in the fire department. There's a camaraderie where you, where you lean on each other, where you

1041
01:46:31,040 --> 01:46:36,720
work, you know, where you trust each other. I get that, man. I absolutely, a hundred percent get that.

1042
01:46:36,720 --> 01:46:44,480
And I have that and I've been involved in creating that, but it's not at the demise or of other

1043
01:46:44,480 --> 01:46:51,600
people. I don't care. Even if you have, it doesn't mean that every, what was that movie, Gran Torino?

1044
01:46:51,600 --> 01:46:58,960
It's like when you get outside of your little bubble, you may learn a thing or two and you may

1045
01:46:58,960 --> 01:47:05,280
loosen up a bit. And is it going to get you killed? Not necessarily. Not necessarily. And not that

1046
01:47:05,280 --> 01:47:13,200
everybody has to live in this, you know, this cornucopia of, you know, of different countries

1047
01:47:13,200 --> 01:47:18,160
and different, you know, races and not like, I understand that's like some black communities

1048
01:47:18,160 --> 01:47:22,880
want to stay black and some white communities want to stay white. But again, it's a different

1049
01:47:22,880 --> 01:47:30,000
mentality when you say we want to stay white because we hate you. We're afraid of you and we

1050
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:35,520
know where you're going to ambush us and we're ready. We're ready. It's a different thing. It's

1051
01:47:35,520 --> 01:47:45,200
like you're creating that. That's a manifestation. It's like what I do as an actor. I'm creating

1052
01:47:45,200 --> 01:47:55,600
a vibe. I'm creating an ambiance. And if you just, which, you know, this administration

1053
01:47:55,600 --> 01:48:01,360
knows better than anybody because they come from marketing, say the same thing over and over and

1054
01:48:01,360 --> 01:48:06,480
over and over and over and over and over and it will become the weaker's default thought,

1055
01:48:07,920 --> 01:48:12,160
the impressionable. And we're all very impressionable. Yeah. I think there's a

1056
01:48:12,160 --> 01:48:18,080
lot of people that just need to ask why. Like say you want, you know, your anti whatever group.

1057
01:48:18,720 --> 01:48:24,000
Right. Why? That's the three ways. Whether it's because of anything Benghazi or, you know,

1058
01:48:24,000 --> 01:48:32,640
this thing that's come up that I just saw come up that my buddy emailed me about Hunter Biden

1059
01:48:33,600 --> 01:48:42,160
or Trump. They all should be kept in check. All of them. There's not one side or the other. And

1060
01:48:42,160 --> 01:48:47,040
I've never seen it as one side or the other. If there's a Republican that happens to have more,

1061
01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:52,480
that is more than 50% of the beliefs that I have, then I'm going to vote for that Republican, period.

1062
01:48:52,480 --> 01:48:59,120
Yeah. I'm not going to vote for somebody because I hope. Oh, I hope otherwise would have voted for

1063
01:48:59,120 --> 01:49:04,240
Ross Perot. I don't know why I didn't now. Because of his ears. You know, because of his ears.

1064
01:49:06,240 --> 01:49:12,960
Billionaire, smart, great businessman, obviously cared. But too tiny.

1065
01:49:13,840 --> 01:49:18,320
Yeah. Well, same with, you know, with Tulsi Gabbard. I mean, someone that seems a lot of

1066
01:49:18,320 --> 01:49:24,400
people aligned with the Democrat side didn't even make it on the ballot. You know, so

1067
01:49:25,040 --> 01:49:31,840
the sad thing is people get excited, I think, from some candidates on whatever party they

1068
01:49:31,840 --> 01:49:37,440
tend to hail from. But usually those people don't make it. So, you know, that's the thing.

1069
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:40,720
You've been cheering on a horse that doesn't even get to race in the end.

1070
01:49:40,720 --> 01:49:45,200
No. And then what I saw, you know, during that debate, and this is just my own opinion,

1071
01:49:45,200 --> 01:49:53,920
is I saw a personality contest, a really bad one, like just horrible. All the snickering on both

1072
01:49:53,920 --> 01:49:57,760
sides, you know, laughing when you don't really think something's funny, you're pissed off. So

1073
01:49:58,640 --> 01:50:02,000
did you at least learn a lot about what they stand for and what they're going to do the next

1074
01:50:02,000 --> 01:50:07,200
way? Obviously not. I mean, it's a loaded question. You didn't learn from the political campaigns.

1075
01:50:07,200 --> 01:50:11,760
It's unbelievable, dude. I didn't learn shit. I didn't learn anything. It made me angry.

1076
01:50:11,760 --> 01:50:17,120
I was like, fuck you guys. Yeah, if I was a bouncer, I'd throw them out.

1077
01:50:17,120 --> 01:50:23,360
You're using this country as a little bitch fight. Why? It's an entire country.

1078
01:50:24,560 --> 01:50:27,520
There's a lot of people here. There's a lot of people here in need.

1079
01:50:28,400 --> 01:50:36,000
There's a lot of people here relying on you. You know, so I went back and I heard, you know,

1080
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:44,000
Nixon is the greatest president of all time. But I heard, and by the way, you know, that I don't

1081
01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:50,800
want to do it on, I don't want to debate on Zoom. And then you go back to Nixon and JFK and they

1082
01:50:50,800 --> 01:50:55,360
were in separate, they did that basically. It wasn't Zoom back then, but they were in separate

1083
01:50:55,360 --> 01:51:03,440
states when they debated at one point in their debating trajectory. But I listened to one of the

1084
01:51:03,440 --> 01:51:06,640
debates, and I don't know if it was that one, but I listened to one of the debates and it was

1085
01:51:07,280 --> 01:51:15,280
highly intelligent, highly. And one debate would be about one subject, by the way,

1086
01:51:16,400 --> 01:51:21,760
90 minutes or whatever, maybe it was 60, 90 or 60 minutes, talking about one subject. We're

1087
01:51:21,760 --> 01:51:30,320
talking about foreign policy for 60 or 90 minutes. And respectfully, didn't mean that they weren't

1088
01:51:30,320 --> 01:51:34,720
corrupt, didn't mean that they didn't turn out to, you know, Watergate and all that shit.

1089
01:51:35,520 --> 01:51:42,080
But it just, it was a, you know, there was none of that to me, none of that in this debate. And it

1090
01:51:42,080 --> 01:51:47,200
was, again, it sounds really negative. And I don't mean to just pull this down into a negativity,

1091
01:51:47,200 --> 01:51:53,600
because I understand it's much easier and it feels much better to say, you know, if your kid has

1092
01:51:53,600 --> 01:52:01,680
issues, it's just like, no, my kid's great. My kid's great. You know, but we were noticing that this

1093
01:52:01,680 --> 01:52:07,120
is happening and they didn't know they're great. They're great. They're great. We live in Atlanta.

1094
01:52:07,120 --> 01:52:15,040
It's great. It's all good. You know, went to church on Sunday. It's great. And you go, okay,

1095
01:52:15,040 --> 01:52:18,960
you're doing you're hitting all the things that you think are great. And that, you know,

1096
01:52:18,960 --> 01:52:25,520
is a proponent for greatness. But what's the personal? Where's the personal?

1097
01:52:26,880 --> 01:52:31,120
And it's not a negative thing. It's being able to touch on these things of fallibility

1098
01:52:31,120 --> 01:52:36,000
and humanness and saying, okay, now we dealt with that. Now let's move on. And you are,

1099
01:52:36,000 --> 01:52:42,080
you are, you are a more, you are a more enriched human being because of it.

1100
01:52:42,080 --> 01:52:50,320
Two people talking together learn about the state of what it is to be alive for this very short time

1101
01:52:50,320 --> 01:52:57,040
with this very given gift that we have, and then you're dead. So why not make the most of it?

1102
01:52:57,760 --> 01:53:05,040
Why not connect? Why not, you know, and if I say something about Trump, it's much less about,

1103
01:53:05,040 --> 01:53:11,200
it's about what are you doing? What's your intention? What is your intention? You know,

1104
01:53:11,200 --> 01:53:16,320
people are protesting. They're angry. Yeah, man. Just like with police, the people are going out

1105
01:53:16,320 --> 01:53:23,680
and, you know, starting fires and small business. That's fucking horrible. It's horrible. But you

1106
01:53:23,680 --> 01:53:36,000
do not go out to peaceful protesters and smack them with batons and gas them. You don't. You don't.

1107
01:53:38,400 --> 01:53:43,040
That's in the constitution. If you're an advocate of the constitution,

1108
01:53:44,320 --> 01:53:51,840
which is, I've heard, that's the thing. You don't do that. You really don't. You don't do that.

1109
01:53:51,840 --> 01:53:58,080
You don't do that. You respect the constitution. Anyway, wish you a fucking shit.

1110
01:53:59,520 --> 01:54:05,200
Well, I gotta let you go to your appointment very soon. How long have we got left? If anything?

1111
01:54:07,120 --> 01:54:12,960
Okay, so we'll just, I'll wrap up with, well, we've definitely put the world to rights. No

1112
01:54:12,960 --> 01:54:18,480
question about that. But I want to just kind of open the door for the stuff you're working on now

1113
01:54:18,480 --> 01:54:24,000
because you talked about, you know, your, when you used to write on Instagram, you talked about

1114
01:54:24,800 --> 01:54:31,760
the kind of reflection you did after some of the big films that you made. So tell me about what

1115
01:54:31,760 --> 01:54:35,200
people have to look forward to as far as your work with television coming up.

1116
01:54:36,480 --> 01:54:41,200
I mean, look, something happened. I told you that something happened when I contracted for that year

1117
01:54:41,200 --> 01:54:46,720
and a half and it had a lot to do with my kid being born and a lot of changes. We've just

1118
01:54:46,720 --> 01:54:50,800
gone through a lot of changes. We've moved, you know, have we moved out of California? No,

1119
01:54:50,800 --> 01:54:56,000
not necessarily. But do we live in Atlanta right now? Yes, we do for sure. A hundred percent.

1120
01:54:57,280 --> 01:55:03,200
And we have a baby coming in December and, you know, that's, it's all really, really wonderful and

1121
01:55:04,400 --> 01:55:13,440
very life affirming. But with work, something happened at the ranch in California and I was

1122
01:55:13,440 --> 01:55:18,480
up there for a couple of days myself, which doesn't happen often these days. And I started

1123
01:55:18,480 --> 01:55:24,720
watching these behind the scenes and I think I wrote your forward during that time. Maybe,

1124
01:55:24,720 --> 01:55:29,600
I think so for your book, which we didn't talk about, which is strange.

1125
01:55:30,160 --> 01:55:31,360
This is not about me.

1126
01:55:33,760 --> 01:55:42,080
It is, it's your podcast. And I started watching these behind the scenes and it just reminded me

1127
01:55:42,080 --> 01:55:48,240
of the necessity of storytelling and the history of storytelling and the mirroring of society and

1128
01:55:48,240 --> 01:55:54,240
our behaviors and what we learn, all that kind of stuff. And it really got me jazzed up again.

1129
01:55:56,480 --> 01:56:01,360
And I literally went from one behind the scenes to watching that movie to another behind the

1130
01:56:01,360 --> 01:56:06,720
scenes to watching that movie to another behind the scenes and just taught every aspect of

1131
01:56:06,720 --> 01:56:13,680
filmmaking, editing, writing, you know, direct photography, script supervising, everybody,

1132
01:56:13,680 --> 01:56:19,680
hearing everybody talk about, you know, the importance and the fascination around behavior

1133
01:56:20,320 --> 01:56:27,040
and the human condition was very inspiring to me. So I just delved back, like that's all it took.

1134
01:56:27,600 --> 01:56:33,200
That's all it took. And I love to write. I've always written long before I wanted to become an

1135
01:56:33,200 --> 01:56:38,320
actor. Writing was always the priority and it was always the go-to. I think that's my way of kind of

1136
01:56:38,320 --> 01:56:46,320
figuring out how I feel or trying to solidify in my own mind how I see things or just clarify,

1137
01:56:46,320 --> 01:56:52,720
not solidify, but clarify. And so the writing has been a big thing. I did the forward to your book,

1138
01:56:52,720 --> 01:56:59,040
which I was very, very honored to be asked to do, honestly. I've done a couple of other forwards to

1139
01:56:59,040 --> 01:57:05,840
other people's books that I'm also very, very honored to be asked. And, you know, so yeah,

1140
01:57:05,840 --> 01:57:11,920
we're doing a lot of writing right now. And then TV, you know, to me, you were born and you died in

1141
01:57:11,920 --> 01:57:16,640
TV. That's where I come from. I'm like old school guy. You start in TV and then you hopefully

1142
01:57:16,640 --> 01:57:22,480
graduate to movies and then you go back to TV before you die. And TV is a different thing now

1143
01:57:22,480 --> 01:57:27,200
and the platform is very different and they're doing little movies now and it's kind of amazing.

1144
01:57:27,200 --> 01:57:32,480
And so I read this thing. I said no to most TV that's come my way, but I read this Western

1145
01:57:32,480 --> 01:57:38,000
and I loved it. I loved it because it kind of had Brad Berrien, who I loved as a kid,

1146
01:57:39,360 --> 01:57:44,480
aspects to it. So kind of supernatural aspects to it that I really, really appreciated

1147
01:57:45,200 --> 01:57:49,760
and things that have fascinated me for a long time. So I loved the way it manifested and I kept

1148
01:57:49,760 --> 01:57:55,600
saying to the person that was in the office, this is so fucking weird. And I was like,

1149
01:57:55,600 --> 01:58:01,840
this is fucking weird. And I love that. I love that. It's just a very unique perspective on

1150
01:58:02,400 --> 01:58:07,840
another, you know, typical story, you know, two warring families in the West. And

1151
01:58:09,520 --> 01:58:14,800
so I'm doing that next. I did Dune that just got pushed another year. So that comes out in October

1152
01:58:14,800 --> 01:58:20,960
2021, which I was very happy about doing. Amazing actors, amazing filmmaker, Denis Villeneuve,

1153
01:58:20,960 --> 01:58:28,240
who's become a very close friend. And, you know, I'm a little more, I'm not going to work as much.

1154
01:58:28,240 --> 01:58:34,960
I'm just not going to work doing that as much. I'm very happy to still be able to do it. I'm

1155
01:58:34,960 --> 01:58:42,560
very happy that I have choice in it. But I there's other things in my life that have started to

1156
01:58:42,560 --> 01:58:48,960
surface that have become more of a priority. And I and how I spend my time is very, very,

1157
01:58:48,960 --> 01:58:57,520
very meaningful to me right now. You know, I have this obsession with my deathbed, and I just want

1158
01:58:57,520 --> 01:59:04,640
to be able to chuckle right before I take that last breath. I just want to go, oh, wow, that was

1159
01:59:04,640 --> 01:59:10,160
cool. That was a hell of a ride. That was a hell of a ride. And I could say that now, but there's

1160
01:59:10,160 --> 01:59:17,840
more. There's more. And it'll be a little deeper chuckle than it would be right now. But I feel

1161
01:59:17,840 --> 01:59:24,800
very, very humbled and very honored. And this is not just a bullshit, bullshit affectation is that

1162
01:59:25,760 --> 01:59:30,960
I get to do this. I get to do this. You know, you just came up from Florida. Now we're talking.

1163
01:59:30,960 --> 01:59:39,040
We've been talking on the phone every few days. And, and, and, and I do, I go, it's like, how cool.

1164
01:59:39,040 --> 01:59:44,480
I'm going to go in and see my little daughter and, you know, the dentist, I'm not, I'm not too stoked

1165
01:59:44,480 --> 01:59:51,120
on it. And that's the scenario and the day's scenario. But I do feel very, very lucky to be

1166
01:59:51,120 --> 01:59:58,080
doing the things that I get to do. And I always have, whether I had money or not. You know,

1167
01:59:58,080 --> 02:00:03,440
when I raised my older kids, I didn't have a lot of money and it didn't matter. I remember we were

1168
02:00:05,040 --> 02:00:09,840
on vacation and it was just me and the kids and they were small and they were in the back seat.

1169
02:00:09,840 --> 02:00:14,640
And I said, where are we going to sleep tonight? And they would say in unison, we don't care. And

1170
02:00:14,640 --> 02:00:19,040
we literally didn't know from place to place, day to day, where we were going to sleep, whether it

1171
02:00:19,040 --> 02:00:25,360
was going to be in the car, somebody's trailer, a guest house, a BNB, and it didn't fucking matter.

1172
02:00:25,360 --> 02:00:42,640
And that's a, it's an outlook that I've tried to hold on to and we'll try to hold on to until the end.