1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,520 This episode is sponsored by 511 Tactical, a company who I've used for well over a decade 2 00:00:04,520 --> 00:00:10,620 now and who are reaching out to you guys, the audience, to offer you 15%, not only off 3 00:00:10,620 --> 00:00:15,660 one purchase but an ongoing 15% that will only ever be trumped if something is even 4 00:00:15,660 --> 00:00:18,220 for sale for a higher discount than that 15%. 5 00:00:18,220 --> 00:00:21,940 I'm going to give you that discount code in just a moment but I want to talk about another 6 00:00:21,940 --> 00:00:27,200 product and showcase that and that is the AMP, which is the All Missions Pack. 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,800 So what they've done with this, they've taken an extremely comfortable backpack, you know, 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:35,560 hiking quality with some incredible webbing and straps to really even out that load but 9 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:37,560 they've added what they call the gear set. 10 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,960 I think this is extremely pertinent for us because we are Jack of all trades, master 11 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:45,640 of none and we're not just a firefighter or a police officer, you're a father, you're 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:51,000 an athlete, you're a hiker, you're a gun owner, whatever it is that you use and so each of 13 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,340 these sets can be added to the pack or taken off. 14 00:00:54,340 --> 00:00:59,940 So for me personally, I have the Shovet Kit which allows me to put in brush gear and actually 15 00:00:59,940 --> 00:01:03,220 slide my helmet in there if I deploy on a brush fire. 16 00:01:03,220 --> 00:01:06,200 There is a med pouch which I think doubles very well for a wash bag. 17 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,820 Again, I snap it on if I go to the station and then I can remove it for the next two 18 00:01:09,820 --> 00:01:11,360 days when I don't need it. 19 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,980 So it allows you to have one backpack that's extremely versatile. 20 00:01:14,980 --> 00:01:18,980 There's also an element where if you do have weapons, you go into the range, you can have 21 00:01:18,980 --> 00:01:22,520 a short barrel rifle in there, there's a concealed carry pocket. 22 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,680 So extremely versatile all around one specific backpack. 23 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:31,960 So the discount code for this and anything else on this site is SHIELD15. 24 00:01:31,960 --> 00:01:37,640 S-H-I-E-L-D-1-5 and as I said, that will get you a discount over and over again if you 25 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:43,280 go to www.511tactical.com. 26 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:44,680 Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. 27 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,740 My name is James Gearing and this is episode 277 and I am so excited to bring to you this 28 00:01:49,740 --> 00:01:52,060 week Clint Mallarchuk. 29 00:01:52,060 --> 00:01:56,920 Now Clint is a legend in the NHL initially as a goalkeeper and then transitioning over 30 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:58,920 to coaching. 31 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:03,840 And tragically he's also known for a video when he was struck in the throat by an opposing 32 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:08,060 player's skate and almost bled to death out on the ice. 33 00:02:08,060 --> 00:02:12,680 So that is one page of his entire story and you will hear the power of his mental health 34 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:18,540 struggles, of how he entered the NHL, his philosophy on mental wellness, on becoming 35 00:02:18,540 --> 00:02:24,400 an elite athlete, on mentorship, so many areas that he discusses in this interview. 36 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:28,400 Before we get to that, as I always say, please just take a moment and go to whichever podcast 37 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:34,240 app you listen to this on, whether it's iTunes, Stitcher, SoundCloud, subscribe to the show, 38 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,800 leave feedback and then most importantly rate the show. 39 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:41,040 The more five star ratings we get, the more visible we are for people looking for a podcast 40 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:42,220 like this. 41 00:02:42,220 --> 00:02:45,720 And then as I've said many, many times, you guys are this podcast. 42 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,960 So the more you share, the bigger this grows, the more people it's going to reach. 43 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:55,920 And episodes like Clint's that are so powerful truly may save a life if they get to the right 44 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:56,920 person. 45 00:02:56,920 --> 00:02:59,160 So I ask you to help share this project. 46 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,680 So with that being said, I introduce to you Clint Malarchuk. 47 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:22,520 Enjoy. 48 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,000 So Clint, I want to start by saying thank you so much for taking the time to come on 49 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:27,880 the Behind the Shield podcast. 50 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:29,560 Oh, my pleasure. 51 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:35,040 It's something that's important in our professions and society. 52 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:44,280 So always willing to chat about my adventures with mental illness and PTSD and you name 53 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,680 it I've been probably diagnosed with it. 54 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:48,040 Yeah, well, that's interesting. 55 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:52,880 So I read the book Matter of Inches and yeah, your story, a lot of people obviously we're 56 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:57,620 going to talk about this, are going to think of you that one specific event with the accident 57 00:03:57,620 --> 00:04:01,700 on the rink, but you know, it really starts right at the very, very beginning. 58 00:04:01,700 --> 00:04:06,280 So I'd love to do that and then work our way chronologically forward. 59 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:07,800 So where were you born? 60 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,720 And then tell me what your family unit was like, what your parents did and how many siblings. 61 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:18,120 Well, I was born in Grand Prairie, Alberta, which is well, it's north. 62 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,420 It's way up there in northern northern part of Alberta. 63 00:04:22,420 --> 00:04:26,880 So it's cold winters, long winters, grew up, you know, playing hockey. 64 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:32,600 That's what we did when you get that much winter and snow and ice and you just grow 65 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,480 up around that hockey culture. 66 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:40,700 I had an older, have an older brother, seven years older than me and a sister is six years 67 00:04:40,700 --> 00:04:42,260 older than me. 68 00:04:42,260 --> 00:04:48,940 So you know, we, we saw different because we're that far apart, at least, you know, 69 00:04:48,940 --> 00:04:50,440 I'm that far apart from them. 70 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:56,700 We saw different things with but you know, I, my dad was a great guy and he was my hero. 71 00:04:56,700 --> 00:04:58,960 He was a hockey goalie, just like I was. 72 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:06,640 And, and but the problem is he, he had pretty severe alcoholism and you know, it's a progressive 73 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,540 disease. 74 00:05:08,540 --> 00:05:14,740 So what they saw, you know, seven and six years ahead of me, you know, I probably saw 75 00:05:14,740 --> 00:05:19,640 more than they did because of, like I said, the disease progressed in him and he came, 76 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:21,840 he came quite abusive. 77 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:24,960 And we, you know, we know so many people, they're just such great people, but then they 78 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:30,500 get into some sort of an addiction and it, it turns them into a monster. 79 00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:34,600 Now reading that, so you know, like you said, as you were younger through younger eyes, 80 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,660 you were kind of, you know, you weren't aware of that side of him because he was just your 81 00:05:38,660 --> 00:05:40,700 dad and your hero. 82 00:05:40,700 --> 00:05:45,260 And then as, as you go into the book, you talk about that more looking back now, especially 83 00:05:45,260 --> 00:05:50,880 after being in the journey of self-discovery yourself, what do you think it was about your 84 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,620 dad's earlier life that, that led him to the alcoholism? 85 00:05:54,620 --> 00:06:00,140 Well, knowing what I do know now about, you know, everything I've been through and, you 86 00:06:00,140 --> 00:06:04,660 know, a zillion counselors and psychologists and psychiatrists. 87 00:06:04,660 --> 00:06:12,100 And you know, I've had a life of a life, full life of experiences with, with mental illnesses 88 00:06:12,100 --> 00:06:15,860 and, and, and self-reflection writing the book. 89 00:06:15,860 --> 00:06:22,300 I look back and I think I really do that my dad was mentally ill and like so many people 90 00:06:22,300 --> 00:06:25,340 back in those days, you know, I was born in 61. 91 00:06:25,340 --> 00:06:30,380 So we're talking, you know, when I was a young kid in the sixties and early seventies, you 92 00:06:30,380 --> 00:06:38,580 know, with my father, I, there's a huge correlation between addiction and mental illness. 93 00:06:38,580 --> 00:06:43,540 For me, as I learned later, you know, and I'm sure it was, I look back and I think this 94 00:06:43,540 --> 00:06:45,260 was probably for my daddy. 95 00:06:45,260 --> 00:06:48,100 He probably had anxiety and some sorts of depression. 96 00:06:48,100 --> 00:06:55,420 I know he had some self esteem issues looking, researching back. 97 00:06:55,420 --> 00:07:03,620 And so, you know, for me, I'll just talk about my addiction was alcohol. 98 00:07:03,620 --> 00:07:06,140 And it was, it was a medication for me. 99 00:07:06,140 --> 00:07:08,460 I didn't party much, you know, sure. 100 00:07:08,460 --> 00:07:09,540 I was a hockey player. 101 00:07:09,540 --> 00:07:15,420 We partied, you know, regular, but I, you know, I used alcohol. 102 00:07:15,420 --> 00:07:17,780 If I was anxious, it would calm me down. 103 00:07:17,780 --> 00:07:20,420 If I was depressed, it would pick me up. 104 00:07:20,420 --> 00:07:27,940 If my OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder, which I had, we still do, but it would calm 105 00:07:27,940 --> 00:07:35,100 it where I didn't have to do certain things, certain compulsions. 106 00:07:35,100 --> 00:07:40,180 So alcohol was, was a medication and just getting back to your question. 107 00:07:40,180 --> 00:07:45,820 Yeah, I think my father looking back now and, and this is all fairly recent self reflection 108 00:07:45,820 --> 00:07:46,820 on my life. 109 00:07:46,820 --> 00:07:55,180 I think my dad, and it does also, I've found out in the last year or so, my family has 110 00:07:55,180 --> 00:07:58,060 quite a history of mental illness. 111 00:07:58,060 --> 00:08:06,100 You know, when I'm talking about cousins and, and aunts and like I said, maybe my father. 112 00:08:06,100 --> 00:08:11,900 Right now I know you, you talk about yourself kind of discovering what ultimately you realized 113 00:08:11,900 --> 00:08:13,980 was OCD, even when you were young. 114 00:08:13,980 --> 00:08:15,260 So, so tell me about that. 115 00:08:15,260 --> 00:08:20,540 When did you realize that there was that compulsion, especially with the hygiene side? 116 00:08:20,540 --> 00:08:25,460 Well, yeah, you know, everybody thinks, uh, obsessive compulsive disorder. 117 00:08:25,460 --> 00:08:31,660 First thing they think, germophobia, uh, constant hand washing and, and showering or whatever, 118 00:08:31,660 --> 00:08:35,100 uh, light switches, counting, things like that. 119 00:08:35,100 --> 00:08:39,820 And I did, I did definitely go through some contamination issues when I was young. 120 00:08:39,820 --> 00:08:47,180 Um, you know, I was never diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder until I was like 30 years 121 00:08:47,180 --> 00:08:48,180 old. 122 00:08:48,180 --> 00:08:53,460 And, um, uh, for me that was because my mom was trying to get me into doctors saying this 123 00:08:53,460 --> 00:09:00,940 kid's really suffering with anxiety and he's, uh, uh, fortunately though, I was able to 124 00:09:00,940 --> 00:09:08,100 channel my compulsions into hockey rather than to germs or, uh, counting or any of those 125 00:09:08,100 --> 00:09:10,980 other things that, that we go through. 126 00:09:10,980 --> 00:09:16,020 So I became very obsessive about my, uh, wanting to be an NHL hockey player. 127 00:09:16,020 --> 00:09:19,420 Like I said, my dad was a, a great goalie. 128 00:09:19,420 --> 00:09:22,440 Uh, my older brother was a great goalie as well. 129 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:29,060 So it was in me, uh, maybe that helped me obsess about being a great goalie like them. 130 00:09:29,060 --> 00:09:32,900 Uh, you know, like my brother was drafted to the NHL as well. 131 00:09:32,900 --> 00:09:37,380 Um, you know, so I looked up to these, uh, these two men. 132 00:09:37,380 --> 00:09:39,780 And uh, like I said, my brother was seven years older than me. 133 00:09:39,780 --> 00:09:46,060 So he, he'd actually had a lot of influence on my, uh, my teens after dad had really kind 134 00:09:46,060 --> 00:09:51,740 of, uh, left the picture and, uh, you know, and again, he was kind of a hero. 135 00:09:51,740 --> 00:09:59,700 So I was able, uh, you know, just that obsessive compulsiveness and compulsively train to be 136 00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:04,580 a hockey goalie, you know, as a kid, I mean, I was young, 12 years old and I'm training 137 00:10:04,580 --> 00:10:08,420 like, like, uh, you don't even start training that young. 138 00:10:08,420 --> 00:10:11,740 Well, maybe they do now, but we didn't back then. 139 00:10:11,740 --> 00:10:19,840 Yeah, but it was interesting watching as you were saying, so you had this OCD side that 140 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,980 in one respect, people might look from the outside looking in going, well, that's weird. 141 00:10:23,980 --> 00:10:28,020 You know, the light switch thing and not be able to touch anything because of the germs. 142 00:10:28,020 --> 00:10:32,980 But then you found as a very young boy, the, the healthy way of channeling that, which 143 00:10:32,980 --> 00:10:39,620 was the, the meticulous training and drilling and, you know, that you talk about, you know, 144 00:10:39,620 --> 00:10:44,260 your, your racquetball later to, to funnel that and channel that into something that 145 00:10:44,260 --> 00:10:46,180 was a good, healthy outlet. 146 00:10:46,180 --> 00:10:51,500 Well, that's, that's, that's, I'm one of the fortunate ones, I think, uh, with that disorder 147 00:10:51,500 --> 00:10:57,620 and, and I'm not saying it didn't overlap into, into, I still had the germophobia, uh, 148 00:10:57,620 --> 00:11:03,180 you know, you know, growing up and, and even, even today I still do a little bit. 149 00:11:03,180 --> 00:11:10,860 Um, and so, but the main thing was, it was, I was able to, uh, put most of it into, into 150 00:11:10,860 --> 00:11:16,620 the hockey and, uh, you know, I don't think I was the most talented guy in the world. 151 00:11:16,620 --> 00:11:20,900 Uh, a lot of people's, uh, later on said, man, you were so good when you were this age 152 00:11:20,900 --> 00:11:25,340 or that age and everything, but, you know, I was very insecure and I, I, I, you know, 153 00:11:25,340 --> 00:11:31,580 I didn't believe it and so I felt like if I was going to have to, uh, outperform or 154 00:11:31,580 --> 00:11:38,180 make a team or anything, I had to outwork, uh, because I thought I didn't have much skill. 155 00:11:38,180 --> 00:11:44,740 So that's where the OCD came in and the repetitions that I would do countless, uh, repetitions. 156 00:11:44,740 --> 00:11:48,940 Um, there was a deal that, uh, we did a few years ago. 157 00:11:48,940 --> 00:11:55,140 It was an ESPN 30 for 30, but it was a short, it's only like a 10 minute deal and they 158 00:11:55,140 --> 00:11:58,660 had this kid that kind of portrayed me when I was young. 159 00:11:58,660 --> 00:12:01,740 Um, and he did a great job. 160 00:12:01,740 --> 00:12:06,220 Uh, uh, you know, this young kid, he's about 12 years old and he's, he's supposed to be 161 00:12:06,220 --> 00:12:12,020 Clint when I'm 12 and man, they, I really was like, holy moly. 162 00:12:12,020 --> 00:12:13,460 That's how hard I did work. 163 00:12:13,460 --> 00:12:18,340 This kid worked his butt off cause he had to, the cameras were rolling. 164 00:12:18,340 --> 00:12:21,620 Now you, you talk about that quite a bit like that. 165 00:12:21,620 --> 00:12:26,060 Um, the, the lack of self belief that you had talent and that's funny because it's something 166 00:12:26,060 --> 00:12:31,140 I've talked about with myself and the, the phrase I came across, I don't know, only a 167 00:12:31,140 --> 00:12:34,500 couple of years ago, I think was imposter syndrome. 168 00:12:34,500 --> 00:12:40,180 And I wonder now, you know, if, if you talk to your fellow, you know, elite athletes in 169 00:12:40,180 --> 00:12:45,900 the NHL, how many of these men actually also had that self doubt? 170 00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:49,740 Well, I, this is my opinion. 171 00:12:49,740 --> 00:12:52,500 The most insecure people in the world. 172 00:12:52,500 --> 00:12:58,740 I mean, I played, uh, hockey was, you know, my life I played, I coached in the NHL, you 173 00:12:58,740 --> 00:13:05,860 know, for, I've been in the game all, I'm 68 and I got out of it about four, three, 174 00:13:05,860 --> 00:13:08,580 well four years ago when my book came out. 175 00:13:08,580 --> 00:13:13,180 And so I know athletes and especially hockey players. 176 00:13:13,180 --> 00:13:16,740 And you know, part of it is the job insecurity. 177 00:13:16,740 --> 00:13:20,020 Although nowadays they make a ton of dough. 178 00:13:20,020 --> 00:13:25,420 Uh, it's a lot different when, when I was, but we had an NHL or, or I played for Buffalo 179 00:13:25,420 --> 00:13:29,300 Sabres in, uh, late eighties, early nineties. 180 00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:32,700 And we had a reunion just on the last weekend. 181 00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:34,540 And uh, wow. 182 00:13:34,540 --> 00:13:38,860 I mean to see, and there's one guy that I have talked to for probably about four years 183 00:13:38,860 --> 00:13:42,060 now that is really, really struggling with a lot of things. 184 00:13:42,060 --> 00:13:48,180 Um, but I meet a lot of these guys and all, all, all we do is bitch and moan on how much 185 00:13:48,180 --> 00:13:53,180 money everybody's making now and how our jobs were on the line, all the game, you know, 186 00:13:53,180 --> 00:13:58,260 one bad game and you could be in the minors and that mental, uh, uh, you know, we didn't 187 00:13:58,260 --> 00:14:00,140 have a lot of stability back then. 188 00:14:00,140 --> 00:14:03,260 Uh, it's a lot better now for sure. 189 00:14:03,260 --> 00:14:09,060 But, uh, to see these guys and we're all talking openly, uh, now we're, you know, 50, 60 year 190 00:14:09,060 --> 00:14:13,260 old men and we're going, you know, oh man, remember that, you know, God, I had that one 191 00:14:13,260 --> 00:14:15,860 game and I thought next day I'd be gone. 192 00:14:15,860 --> 00:14:18,820 And so yeah, very insecure. 193 00:14:18,820 --> 00:14:25,500 Um, I think now with today's athlete, uh, even though they got the security, the financial 194 00:14:25,500 --> 00:14:35,100 security that their, uh, contracts are so big now, uh, it's still, um, for them, uh, 195 00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:39,020 their self-worth, a lot of our self-worth goes, well, here, here's an example. 196 00:14:39,020 --> 00:14:43,700 Young, Clem, Alarchuk, if I had a good game, I was a good kid. 197 00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:46,500 If I had a bad game, I was a bad kid. 198 00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:49,420 Now that's pretty sick thinking. 199 00:14:49,420 --> 00:14:56,260 And you know, talking to these other guys that I played with, uh, yeah, I think we all 200 00:14:56,260 --> 00:15:01,980 experienced that type of sick thinking growing up and, and as, as pros, especially as pros. 201 00:15:01,980 --> 00:15:02,980 Yeah. 202 00:15:02,980 --> 00:15:08,260 And I think from the outside, looking in now with these elite athletes, like you said, 203 00:15:08,260 --> 00:15:12,580 their, their environment seems to be, you know, set up for them to thrive. 204 00:15:12,580 --> 00:15:13,580 Now, like you said, they're well-paid. 205 00:15:13,580 --> 00:15:19,260 They've got the top nutritionists and trainers and all these other things, but they are the, 206 00:15:19,260 --> 00:15:23,740 the, the microscope that they're under now, especially with the social media side. 207 00:15:23,740 --> 00:15:29,060 Um, I can imagine that's probably replaced the other stresses that you had earlier in 208 00:15:29,060 --> 00:15:31,480 your career. 209 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:32,480 Well that, yeah. 210 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:37,560 And I, I was kind of leading into that now because, because of the social media, every, 211 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:43,540 every play, uh, good play, bad play or whatever, and the scrutiny that goes on with the media 212 00:15:43,540 --> 00:15:49,580 now because of social media, because of the, uh, high tech internet, you can watch a game 213 00:15:49,580 --> 00:15:54,340 after the game is over, you know, on your computer and you can live stream and you can 214 00:15:54,340 --> 00:15:55,340 do this. 215 00:15:55,340 --> 00:16:02,700 So definitely like, uh, we, we older players were complaining about, uh, this and that, 216 00:16:02,700 --> 00:16:08,660 but now I look like you just mentioned at our, uh, today's athlete and the scrutiny, 217 00:16:08,660 --> 00:16:15,300 uh, is very, very intense because of, uh, you know, internet and social media technology. 218 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:16,540 Yeah. 219 00:16:16,540 --> 00:16:21,380 So when you were younger, obviously you started growing in your career. 220 00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:26,980 Um, tell me about the kind of journey that took you from not drinking and focusing and 221 00:16:26,980 --> 00:16:33,020 being purely, you know, an athlete to when you started finding yourself wandering and, 222 00:16:33,020 --> 00:16:36,420 and, and your mental and physical ill health started turning. 223 00:16:36,420 --> 00:16:43,500 Well, my ill health, you know, I was never diagnosed until, um, after my injury in, in, 224 00:16:43,500 --> 00:16:49,700 uh, 1989, you know, when I cut my jugular vein in a game, that's when everything started 225 00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:51,100 to come out. 226 00:16:51,100 --> 00:16:56,020 Um, I was never diagnosed with anything, uh, even as a kid. 227 00:16:56,020 --> 00:17:00,780 And I was hospitalized, uh, one time for a couple months and, you know, they just said, 228 00:17:00,780 --> 00:17:02,180 well, he's a real anxious kid. 229 00:17:02,180 --> 00:17:04,540 Good luck lady to my mom. 230 00:17:04,540 --> 00:17:08,180 And uh, you know, we've come so far, thank God. 231 00:17:08,180 --> 00:17:14,620 Um, but yeah, for, for me, uh, that accident, we don't understand. 232 00:17:14,620 --> 00:17:15,620 Well, you do. 233 00:17:15,620 --> 00:17:21,300 I know you do, you know, firefighting and you've dealt with trauma probably with yourself, 234 00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:29,020 but with others, um, compadres and colleagues, uh, teammates, as you probably want to call 235 00:17:29,020 --> 00:17:30,340 them at times. 236 00:17:30,340 --> 00:17:38,100 Um, the trauma of my accident was when, uh, I let's, well, first of all, I came back in 237 00:17:38,100 --> 00:17:40,740 10 days, you know, I almost died on the ice. 238 00:17:40,740 --> 00:17:46,900 I became kind of a cult hero, uh, because I came back so quick that city really, really 239 00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:48,740 embraced me. 240 00:17:48,740 --> 00:17:53,000 And uh, you know, the season was getting close to the end and then we have playoffs. 241 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:59,780 So I just rode that adrenaline and it was next season where I really started to, uh, 242 00:17:59,780 --> 00:18:02,980 struggle with, uh, the OCD things. 243 00:18:02,980 --> 00:18:05,980 Uh, it was hard for me to leave the house. 244 00:18:05,980 --> 00:18:08,260 I was starting to have panic attacks. 245 00:18:08,260 --> 00:18:13,980 Um, the, the depression and anxiety were, you know, it was, it was bipolar. 246 00:18:13,980 --> 00:18:16,220 I'd be one minute of being so dang anxious. 247 00:18:16,220 --> 00:18:18,460 Next minute I'm so dang depressed. 248 00:18:18,460 --> 00:18:24,420 So anyways, I didn't sleep for 10 days because of the flashbacks that I started to have the, 249 00:18:24,420 --> 00:18:26,940 I guess, undiagnosed PTSD. 250 00:18:26,940 --> 00:18:32,060 I would see that skate come up and, and then I'd see the blood and I'd wake straight up 251 00:18:32,060 --> 00:18:33,060 in bed. 252 00:18:33,060 --> 00:18:37,100 Uh, you know, just like in the movies and the movies, they are, no one sits straight 253 00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:38,260 up in bed like that. 254 00:18:38,260 --> 00:18:41,620 And yeah, it was, that was me. 255 00:18:41,620 --> 00:18:48,500 And uh, uh, we had a Superbowl party at, uh, our captain's house, Pat LaFontaine and, and, 256 00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:51,140 uh, I was only there probably 20 minutes and I went home. 257 00:18:51,140 --> 00:18:55,740 I, I, because I hadn't slept in, in, uh, what I was doing to sleep to avoid the nightmares, 258 00:18:55,740 --> 00:18:59,900 I'd, I'd sleep in a chair and it'd be like on an airplane. 259 00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:03,420 Some people, I see some people can really sleep, but I can't, I'll have my head will 260 00:19:03,420 --> 00:19:04,420 bobble around. 261 00:19:04,420 --> 00:19:09,540 And so that's how I was getting by for my sleep for about 10 days, just on a chair, 262 00:19:09,540 --> 00:19:14,180 rolling around and avoiding those, uh, those flashbacks. 263 00:19:14,180 --> 00:19:20,260 Uh, and I was doing all this, you gotta understand, I was doing it all in silence and darkness. 264 00:19:20,260 --> 00:19:23,340 You know, I wasn't telling anybody. 265 00:19:23,340 --> 00:19:26,060 And the reason being is because of the stigma. 266 00:19:26,060 --> 00:19:31,700 Uh, they think that I might be screwed up mentally or whatever they called it back then, 267 00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:36,580 mentally crazy, mentally ill, whatever that my career would be done. 268 00:19:36,580 --> 00:19:39,340 So I didn't want to divulge any of this. 269 00:19:39,340 --> 00:19:47,100 Well anyways, uh, at that Superbowl party, uh, uh, I had, uh, I went back home and there 270 00:19:47,100 --> 00:19:53,260 was a, uh, a prescription that I was on for pain painkiller and it said, do not drink 271 00:19:53,260 --> 00:19:55,860 well with alcohol will make you drowsy. 272 00:19:55,860 --> 00:19:57,980 And I said, this is great. 273 00:19:57,980 --> 00:20:00,000 I'm going to sleep tonight. 274 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:06,020 So I took a few extra painkillers and, uh, and, uh, not, not, not like that bottle or 275 00:20:06,020 --> 00:20:11,340 anything like that, maybe five or six, and then I drank a bottle of scotch, uh, which 276 00:20:11,340 --> 00:20:14,260 resulted into my, uh, heart stopping. 277 00:20:14,260 --> 00:20:17,300 And that's when I got woke up in the hospital. 278 00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:24,220 They thought it was a suicide attempt with wasn't, and, uh, it was sleep deprivation 279 00:20:24,220 --> 00:20:26,100 and all these, all these things. 280 00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:32,420 It was, you know, undiagnosed PTSD from my, my incident, obviously not sleeping, avoiding, 281 00:20:32,420 --> 00:20:34,460 uh, the nightmares, all those things. 282 00:20:34,460 --> 00:20:41,180 So, uh, I finally, that's the first time I got diagnosed, uh, with mental illness and, 283 00:20:41,180 --> 00:20:44,100 but PTSD wasn't a set of words back then. 284 00:20:44,100 --> 00:20:46,780 And I was never diagnosed with that. 285 00:20:46,780 --> 00:20:53,300 Nothing of my accident came, came up, uh, you know, doctors never ever brought that 286 00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:54,300 up. 287 00:20:54,300 --> 00:20:59,500 Um, I look back and I'm going, wow, that's kind of weird. 288 00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:04,900 I know you, you got this guy that's going through all these things and all, you know, 289 00:21:04,900 --> 00:21:08,460 you might want to look into it a bit, but I didn't think the accident affected me either 290 00:21:08,460 --> 00:21:16,100 because I dealt with these things, um, to some degree, certain degrees my whole life. 291 00:21:16,100 --> 00:21:17,380 Yeah. 292 00:21:17,380 --> 00:21:21,620 Now going back to, um, the, the accident first. 293 00:21:21,620 --> 00:21:26,180 So for everyone listening, I'm sure 95% of the people know exactly what we're talking 294 00:21:26,180 --> 00:21:31,500 about already, but, um, you were in goal, I think it was one of the, the opposite team 295 00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:34,820 was pulled down and his skate ended up cutting into your throat. 296 00:21:34,820 --> 00:21:35,820 Yeah. 297 00:21:35,820 --> 00:21:36,820 Yeah, exactly. 298 00:21:36,820 --> 00:21:39,060 So, so you lacerated a jugular vein. 299 00:21:39,060 --> 00:21:41,860 Thank God it didn't hit you a carotid artery. 300 00:21:41,860 --> 00:21:43,980 How the hell were you back on the ice in 10 days? 301 00:21:43,980 --> 00:21:45,260 It's my first question. 302 00:21:45,260 --> 00:21:50,100 Well, that's the, that's the amazing thing that, you know, I don't think it's so amazing. 303 00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:51,940 I had to wait till the stitches came out. 304 00:21:51,940 --> 00:21:57,260 But you know, first of all, my thinking was, you know, I grew up in a ranch and cowboy 305 00:21:57,260 --> 00:22:00,220 and that you get bucked off a horse. 306 00:22:00,220 --> 00:22:01,220 You get right back on. 307 00:22:01,220 --> 00:22:03,500 You'd want that fear to set in. 308 00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:06,780 You'd want to think the horse, uh, knows how to beat you. 309 00:22:06,780 --> 00:22:12,980 Now, you know, all this mentality that I broke, uh, you know, it was brought up with, but 310 00:22:12,980 --> 00:22:21,820 then, uh, um, it was just the thing is I had no counseling and maybe it was okay to 311 00:22:21,820 --> 00:22:23,660 come back as quick as I did. 312 00:22:23,660 --> 00:22:27,300 Um, but it would have been nice if I had counseling. 313 00:22:27,300 --> 00:22:29,580 None was offered and I didn't think of it either. 314 00:22:29,580 --> 00:22:32,780 I didn't, didn't even think of it. 315 00:22:32,780 --> 00:22:40,220 And uh, so I just thought get back is, which in a way was, uh, uh, it just endeared me 316 00:22:40,220 --> 00:22:41,660 to the city so much. 317 00:22:41,660 --> 00:22:45,340 I mean, even to this day, I was just there, like I said, for a reunion and they have a 318 00:22:45,340 --> 00:22:51,220 band called Malarchuk in, in Buffalo and it's been 30 years since I played there. 319 00:22:51,220 --> 00:22:58,260 So I'm, I'm certainly remembered for, you know, courage and grit and hard work and, 320 00:22:58,260 --> 00:22:59,620 and things like that. 321 00:22:59,620 --> 00:23:06,820 But um, yeah, the, the fact that I came back that quick, uh, was I guess the most important 322 00:23:06,820 --> 00:23:13,020 fact is, uh, uh, maybe I could have come back, but I should have had some sort of, you know, 323 00:23:13,020 --> 00:23:14,420 consultation or something. 324 00:23:14,420 --> 00:23:15,420 Yeah. 325 00:23:15,420 --> 00:23:16,420 Well, I know. 326 00:23:16,420 --> 00:23:20,260 And we have, you know, we see these, these NHL players that, you know, they get the teeth 327 00:23:20,260 --> 00:23:24,260 knocked out or, you know, lacerate the, the forehead or something like that. 328 00:23:24,260 --> 00:23:28,860 Well, you know, they take themselves back up and they get back on the ice, but a jugular 329 00:23:28,860 --> 00:23:33,700 vein you'd think the medical advice would have been, no, it's not an option. 330 00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:37,060 Like, you know, we need to make sure this is completely healed up before. 331 00:23:37,060 --> 00:23:43,860 I mean, as the psychological side aside, just, just anatomically with that, that an important 332 00:23:43,860 --> 00:23:49,820 vessel being, being stitched up that they would have, you know, forced you to, to wait. 333 00:23:49,820 --> 00:23:56,340 They said I lost, they said I lost a third of my, uh, my blood and you know, that's quite 334 00:23:56,340 --> 00:23:57,340 a bit, I guess. 335 00:23:57,340 --> 00:24:01,340 So I remember, uh, in the summer, you know, the season's over. 336 00:24:01,340 --> 00:24:06,900 I think we were out in the playoffs around April, middle of April or something, probably. 337 00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:14,340 And then in July, I was still weak from, you know, cause I didn't have a transfusion or 338 00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:22,260 given blood or nothing and I was just, uh, really, really weak until, oh shoot, you know, 339 00:24:22,260 --> 00:24:26,940 four or five months, uh, to build up, I guess my blood supply again. 340 00:24:26,940 --> 00:24:27,940 Yeah. 341 00:24:27,940 --> 00:24:28,940 Yeah, exactly. 342 00:24:28,940 --> 00:24:32,660 And then to be, you know, play at an elite level a few days after that sounds, I mean, 343 00:24:32,660 --> 00:24:37,260 it's admirable, like you said, and I totally get why everyone had so much admiration for 344 00:24:37,260 --> 00:24:41,580 you, but from a medical professional side, it seems like it was some pretty shitty advice 345 00:24:41,580 --> 00:24:44,020 to, to allow you back on the ice. 346 00:24:44,020 --> 00:24:46,980 But uh, you know, 30 years ago too. 347 00:24:46,980 --> 00:24:47,980 Yes, exactly. 348 00:24:47,980 --> 00:24:53,340 Um, so within the other side is so there, when I was reading the book, there was something 349 00:24:53,340 --> 00:24:55,380 that really struck out to me. 350 00:24:55,380 --> 00:25:01,740 I talk a lot about sleep deprivation and the effects on mental health in this podcast because 351 00:25:01,740 --> 00:25:06,700 not acutely like you had, but chronically, you know, these first responders are, are 352 00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:10,660 sleep deprived, these doctors, nurses, you know, when they're doing these shifts and 353 00:25:10,660 --> 00:25:16,540 I see now the effects on the long-term health, the short-term, you know, acuity. 354 00:25:16,540 --> 00:25:22,180 Um, when, when you started, you know, not being able to sleep, what were your, excuse 355 00:25:22,180 --> 00:25:27,860 me, what were your observations internally off those preceding days? 356 00:25:27,860 --> 00:25:32,980 Well, all I wanted to, you know, as an athlete, you're, I'm just trying to save my job. 357 00:25:32,980 --> 00:25:38,340 So I'm just trying to get enough sleep to get by without having that flashback because 358 00:25:38,340 --> 00:25:43,380 you know, when you say a flashback or a nightmare, a lot of people don't understand that when 359 00:25:43,380 --> 00:25:48,620 you wake up, uh, your heart is pounding, you're sweating, you're grabbing at your neck. 360 00:25:48,620 --> 00:25:50,140 So it's not like just a bad dream. 361 00:25:50,140 --> 00:25:56,820 You're actually reliving this in every way, physically, physiologically, uh, spiritually, 362 00:25:56,820 --> 00:25:58,220 every way. 363 00:25:58,220 --> 00:26:05,660 And uh, so talk about sleep deprivation and, and that, you know, I, that was on my, that 364 00:26:05,660 --> 00:26:10,340 was my doing because I didn't want to have that flashback, that nightmare. 365 00:26:10,340 --> 00:26:11,340 So that was me. 366 00:26:11,340 --> 00:26:17,940 I could sleep, I could fall asleep, but the problem was I would wake up, uh, to that reoccurring 367 00:26:17,940 --> 00:26:19,900 nightmare. 368 00:26:19,900 --> 00:26:27,240 And so that's why I slept in a chair and, uh, you know, that was self-inflicted, uh, 369 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:32,340 sleep deprivation, but boy, oh boy, I'll tell you what your mind, uh, doesn't function very 370 00:26:32,340 --> 00:26:36,180 good having experienced that kind of sleep deprivation. 371 00:26:36,180 --> 00:26:43,500 Uh, it's almost like you, if you're aren't mentally ill already, it's like going through 372 00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:45,700 a mental illness of some sort. 373 00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:54,140 I still struggle with, uh, with insomnia and, uh, I was on a road trip a few years ago and 374 00:26:54,140 --> 00:26:57,780 I didn't sleep for two nights and I'm going, what the heck? 375 00:26:57,780 --> 00:26:58,780 What is going on? 376 00:26:58,780 --> 00:26:59,780 And I wasn't tired either. 377 00:26:59,780 --> 00:27:03,500 I mean, I go to bed and, uh, try to sleep and I couldn't. 378 00:27:03,500 --> 00:27:09,220 So I just get up and do stuff and in my hotel room, I was on the road and, and, uh, then 379 00:27:09,220 --> 00:27:15,820 I realized, and this is very interesting that our body does remember trauma. 380 00:27:15,820 --> 00:27:20,220 And I look, and I went, oh, and I just learned this too, you know, a year or two before this 381 00:27:20,220 --> 00:27:21,220 all happened. 382 00:27:21,220 --> 00:27:24,820 I went, oh, it's my anniversary of my jugular vein being cut. 383 00:27:24,820 --> 00:27:26,900 And it wasn't to the exact day. 384 00:27:26,900 --> 00:27:31,340 It can be, you know, any, you know, within a couple of weeks or before or after. 385 00:27:31,340 --> 00:27:34,580 And I went, oh, no wonder. 386 00:27:34,580 --> 00:27:39,780 And uh, you know, uh, that is one of my, one of my anniversaries that I have to be conscious 387 00:27:39,780 --> 00:27:41,980 of that I might not sleep. 388 00:27:41,980 --> 00:27:47,940 Uh, you know, I was, I was totally functioning great, but I just couldn't sleep all because 389 00:27:47,940 --> 00:27:51,980 of that anniversary that I didn't acknowledge right away. 390 00:27:51,980 --> 00:27:52,980 That's interesting. 391 00:27:52,980 --> 00:27:57,300 So just, just the, the weather of that time of year or the holiday that's close to that. 392 00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:01,460 And I could see how the multiple chronological reminders. 393 00:28:01,460 --> 00:28:04,020 Yeah, for sure. 394 00:28:04,020 --> 00:28:05,780 It's, uh, it's, it's been proven. 395 00:28:05,780 --> 00:28:09,340 So you know, like everything now it's all scientifically proven. 396 00:28:09,340 --> 00:28:13,540 And then this whole thing is also, if we see it with our own eyes, do we need to wait for 397 00:28:13,540 --> 00:28:14,540 studies? 398 00:28:14,540 --> 00:28:16,260 Um, all right. 399 00:28:16,260 --> 00:28:22,360 Then, uh, so you had this period where you weren't sleeping and obviously it drove you 400 00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:25,620 to the, the time you took the sleeping pills and the Scotch. 401 00:28:25,620 --> 00:28:30,420 Had you had any behavior like that before, or was this kind of like a pivotal moment 402 00:28:30,420 --> 00:28:35,060 in, in the post injury process? 403 00:28:35,060 --> 00:28:37,540 You know, that's a good question, James. 404 00:28:37,540 --> 00:28:43,540 Um, I, I, you know, obviously I'd struggled with several issues, uh, you know, depression 405 00:28:43,540 --> 00:28:49,940 and anxiety, insecurities, all these things, but, uh, not to the degree after the injury. 406 00:28:49,940 --> 00:28:55,620 Like, uh, you know, like I said, I, you learn a lot and, uh, if you're maybe predisposed 407 00:28:55,620 --> 00:29:04,300 to let's say mental illness of some sort, um, a trauma can set it right to the max. 408 00:29:04,300 --> 00:29:11,700 Like, you know, that's why we have so many, uh, first responders, military people that, 409 00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:16,660 uh, they experienced trauma and then all of a sudden they're almost like a different person. 410 00:29:16,660 --> 00:29:21,340 They're struggling, uh, so deeply with so many different issues. 411 00:29:21,340 --> 00:29:22,340 Yeah. 412 00:29:22,340 --> 00:29:26,260 So then what was the, the journey like after that first event? 413 00:29:26,260 --> 00:29:30,580 So you know, you're in the hospital, thank goodness it was your, your wife had CPR and 414 00:29:30,580 --> 00:29:33,980 actually kept you alive. 415 00:29:33,980 --> 00:29:38,700 Well that, that began, well, first of all, diagnosis of mental illness. 416 00:29:38,700 --> 00:29:46,340 Uh, and then, uh, a two and a half to three year period of, and I don't want to discourage 417 00:29:46,340 --> 00:29:50,260 people but we're talking 30 years ago or more. 418 00:29:50,260 --> 00:29:55,260 Um, and we've come so much further with our medications, our counseling, our therapy, 419 00:29:55,260 --> 00:29:56,260 all these things. 420 00:29:56,260 --> 00:30:00,140 So what happened, I was like trying different medications, different doctors. 421 00:30:00,140 --> 00:30:07,300 They were sending me to specialists, um, and nothing was working and with antidepressants 422 00:30:07,300 --> 00:30:14,100 or these, uh, you know, I, people like me, uh, don't produce enough serotonin in our 423 00:30:14,100 --> 00:30:20,340 brain and that's a mood stabilizer, you know, makes you happy, makes you, you know, whatever. 424 00:30:20,340 --> 00:30:26,340 Um, so all these, uh, antidepressants and boot and, and boosters that I was on, uh, 425 00:30:26,340 --> 00:30:32,860 weren't working and it was almost three years and then my play, uh, had also declined. 426 00:30:32,860 --> 00:30:38,140 Uh, uh, you know, I was struggling so much off the ice and so it affected my own ice 427 00:30:38,140 --> 00:30:43,180 performance and I eventually, uh, got sent to the miners. 428 00:30:43,180 --> 00:30:50,220 And that's where, uh, you know, blessing in disguise, uh, yeah, you get sent to the miners. 429 00:30:50,220 --> 00:30:55,180 But, uh, my first game in, in, in the miners, I didn't do very good. 430 00:30:55,180 --> 00:31:00,140 I let him four goals on six shots and got pulled after the first period. 431 00:31:00,140 --> 00:31:01,660 And I was like, I was devastated. 432 00:31:01,660 --> 00:31:04,860 I'm like, I can't even play in the miners. 433 00:31:04,860 --> 00:31:10,220 So I went into the, uh, coach's office at the end of the game and I'm in tears and I 434 00:31:10,220 --> 00:31:12,180 said, I can't take this anymore. 435 00:31:12,180 --> 00:31:13,180 I'm retiring. 436 00:31:13,180 --> 00:31:16,100 And he was like, uh, his name was Rick Dudley. 437 00:31:16,100 --> 00:31:22,220 He's still a prominent hockey figure in, in the NHL. 438 00:31:22,220 --> 00:31:25,580 Anyways, uh, he says, well, what's going on? 439 00:31:25,580 --> 00:31:29,620 And I'm like, I can't, I can't, you know, function and this on my mind. 440 00:31:29,620 --> 00:31:30,620 I can't turn it off. 441 00:31:30,620 --> 00:31:35,140 I was talking about the mental illness more than the, uh, the hockey thing. 442 00:31:35,140 --> 00:31:39,340 And he says, oh, I thought you just came down here to get your game back and play a few 443 00:31:39,340 --> 00:31:41,060 games and you go back to the NHL. 444 00:31:41,060 --> 00:31:42,380 I said, not a chance, Rick. 445 00:31:42,380 --> 00:31:44,420 I'm so screwed up. 446 00:31:44,420 --> 00:31:50,220 Um, so by chance he, he, I don't know how they found them, but they found this great 447 00:31:50,220 --> 00:31:59,060 doctor in San, this was in San Diego, um, that was a cutting edge leader in, in obsessive 448 00:31:59,060 --> 00:32:03,140 compulsive disorder and, and these issues. 449 00:32:03,140 --> 00:32:09,220 And uh, so they got me into see this guy, Dr. Stahl and, uh, I'll never forget him. 450 00:32:09,220 --> 00:32:11,780 And he, he got, he said, son, you're going to be fine. 451 00:32:11,780 --> 00:32:16,940 He was so confident and you got to remember James, I've been hearing this same crap for 452 00:32:16,940 --> 00:32:17,940 three years. 453 00:32:17,940 --> 00:32:20,980 Oh, you, you, you know, this struggle work district, you know, and they're trying to 454 00:32:20,980 --> 00:32:22,780 be positive and helpful. 455 00:32:22,780 --> 00:32:24,860 Um, but this guy was different. 456 00:32:24,860 --> 00:32:27,820 He, he, he said, you're going to be fine. 457 00:32:27,820 --> 00:32:29,420 And wrote me a prescription. 458 00:32:29,420 --> 00:32:35,700 And uh, after six weeks, I was, I was living in California at the time, you know, playing 459 00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:36,700 there. 460 00:32:36,700 --> 00:32:40,980 And I'm, for the first time I'm noticing how nice it is outside and the sunshine and the 461 00:32:40,980 --> 00:32:42,220 temperature. 462 00:32:42,220 --> 00:32:48,260 That's how deep and dark, uh, my depression had gone at nine weeks on that medication, 463 00:32:48,260 --> 00:32:53,540 my ruminating thoughts and, and all that, uh, were gone. 464 00:32:53,540 --> 00:33:00,340 And that started a journey of about 14, 15 years of really, uh, enjoying life and, and 465 00:33:00,340 --> 00:33:04,260 a feeling for the first time I said, is this what it feels like to be normal? 466 00:33:04,260 --> 00:33:06,860 Yeah, and that was Zoloft. 467 00:33:06,860 --> 00:33:08,020 Yes, it was. 468 00:33:08,020 --> 00:33:09,020 Okay. 469 00:33:09,020 --> 00:33:11,660 Cause I remember reading that was how doll and some other ones that weren't. 470 00:33:11,660 --> 00:33:16,380 Well, the thing about how doll, I was playing with the Buffalo Sabres and you know, they're 471 00:33:16,380 --> 00:33:19,020 trying different drugs and they put me on how doll. 472 00:33:19,020 --> 00:33:24,480 Now how doll is highly sedative, which might be okay for some people, but not when you're 473 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,620 trying to stop a hundred mile an hour slap shot. 474 00:33:28,620 --> 00:33:33,020 You know, it's just, uh, the last thing you need to be is sedate. 475 00:33:33,020 --> 00:33:34,740 You need to be the other way. 476 00:33:34,740 --> 00:33:35,740 Yeah. 477 00:33:35,740 --> 00:33:40,820 Now, it's, it's really good to read this and find someone that, you know, took a, took a 478 00:33:40,820 --> 00:33:42,260 med and it worked very well. 479 00:33:42,260 --> 00:33:47,340 I know that there's obviously a but at the end of this sentence, but, um, you know, that 480 00:33:47,340 --> 00:33:48,920 you found the right one and it did help. 481 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:55,380 And there are people out there, um, you know, that the counseling is all they need ultimately. 482 00:33:55,380 --> 00:33:59,540 But then there's obviously the other side where the brain chemistry truly is at a place 483 00:33:59,540 --> 00:34:01,540 where yeah, where, where you need the meds. 484 00:34:01,540 --> 00:34:06,660 So, um, it was, I think very enlightening for me to read that, you know, this one didn't 485 00:34:06,660 --> 00:34:08,860 work, this one didn't work, but then Zoloft did. 486 00:34:08,860 --> 00:34:11,140 And it was, it was a good fit for you at that time. 487 00:34:11,140 --> 00:34:12,140 Oh yeah. 488 00:34:12,140 --> 00:34:18,900 And, and I, I do remember when it kicked in and started, I honestly said to myself, is 489 00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:21,420 this what it feels like to be normal? 490 00:34:21,420 --> 00:34:27,140 In some ways I was kind of mad because I feel like I missed, uh, uh, you know, had so much 491 00:34:27,140 --> 00:34:32,420 anguish in my life for, you know, growing up and, and all that, all that time. 492 00:34:32,420 --> 00:34:37,220 And now all of a sudden I get a drug and I'm like, this is all I needed. 493 00:34:37,220 --> 00:34:44,180 But on the other hand, I was so grateful that, uh, I wasn't living that, that hell anymore 494 00:34:44,180 --> 00:34:46,560 in my head and that it was gone. 495 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,660 So it was kind of a double edged sword there. 496 00:34:48,660 --> 00:34:49,660 Yeah. 497 00:34:49,660 --> 00:34:55,940 Now with, once you were on Zoloft, were you able to still get therapy or counseling and, 498 00:34:55,940 --> 00:34:59,580 and did it help once you were in that better place mentally? 499 00:34:59,580 --> 00:35:00,580 It did. 500 00:35:00,580 --> 00:35:06,500 I did a lot of counseling, uh, some, uh, exposure therapy for like germs, you know, I want you 501 00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:08,060 to touch the toilet, right? 502 00:35:08,060 --> 00:35:09,060 With your hand. 503 00:35:09,060 --> 00:35:10,060 No, I ain't. 504 00:35:10,060 --> 00:35:13,060 Who's been on it? 505 00:35:13,060 --> 00:35:14,060 Yeah. 506 00:35:14,060 --> 00:35:20,140 You know, so I did all that kind of, all, all that thing, but the real kicker was the 507 00:35:20,140 --> 00:35:21,140 meds. 508 00:35:21,140 --> 00:35:27,700 Um, definitely, uh, how Dr. Stahl explained it to me, uh, I didn't, I don't produce enough 509 00:35:27,700 --> 00:35:30,780 serotonin in my brain. 510 00:35:30,780 --> 00:35:37,980 And uh, that's where, uh, this booster drug would, you know, make me get the right amount 511 00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:38,980 of serotonin. 512 00:35:38,980 --> 00:35:41,420 That'd be like a normal person. 513 00:35:41,420 --> 00:35:48,340 And uh, I guess what, you know, some people don't like to, uh, take meds or anything, 514 00:35:48,340 --> 00:35:55,660 but um, the alternative wasn't good, you know, to, to not take meds. 515 00:35:55,660 --> 00:36:03,140 I was, I was suicidal, uh, depressed, anxious panic, you know, still not, uh, functioning 516 00:36:03,140 --> 00:36:06,500 as a, as a normal person. 517 00:36:06,500 --> 00:36:12,420 And so for, for me, uh, you know, people that, you know, criticize medication, um, I'm kind 518 00:36:12,420 --> 00:36:14,540 of like, well, I don't like the alternative. 519 00:36:14,540 --> 00:36:15,540 Yeah. 520 00:36:15,540 --> 00:36:18,460 Well, I think it's horses for courses, isn't it? 521 00:36:18,460 --> 00:36:20,540 It's, you know, there's no one size fits all. 522 00:36:20,540 --> 00:36:25,860 And there's many people on here that have been struggling mentally that so many different 523 00:36:25,860 --> 00:36:30,020 things have worked EMDR, equine therapy, you know, I mean, it could be anything, but there's 524 00:36:30,020 --> 00:36:34,700 definitely that section as well where the pharmaceutical side is, is going to make a 525 00:36:34,700 --> 00:36:39,460 difference either short term till they can get to a certain point or even longterm. 526 00:36:39,460 --> 00:36:40,460 Yeah. 527 00:36:40,460 --> 00:36:44,620 And, and that's what people, uh, sometimes get, well, I have to be on this drug the rest 528 00:36:44,620 --> 00:36:45,620 of my life. 529 00:36:45,620 --> 00:36:46,620 No, no, not necessarily. 530 00:36:46,620 --> 00:36:51,780 Uh, it could be a short term, uh, you know, you just need a boost to get back to where 531 00:36:51,780 --> 00:36:55,340 you should be and your body readjust somehow. 532 00:36:55,340 --> 00:36:58,180 But uh, you know, you mentioned EMDR. 533 00:36:58,180 --> 00:37:01,860 Um, so about, uh, it's been almost a year now. 534 00:37:01,860 --> 00:37:06,660 I started to have the flashbacks, uh, waking up at night screaming. 535 00:37:06,660 --> 00:37:09,460 Um, my wife was like, what's going on? 536 00:37:09,460 --> 00:37:10,460 I'm not on. 537 00:37:10,460 --> 00:37:11,460 Yeah. 538 00:37:11,460 --> 00:37:12,460 It was, it was crazy. 539 00:37:12,460 --> 00:37:17,620 So I, I don't know how I found out about it or whatever, but I went to a local psychologist 540 00:37:17,620 --> 00:37:24,780 here that did EMDR and we did three sessions, one for my childhood, uh, trauma, one for 541 00:37:24,780 --> 00:37:27,840 my jugular vein being severed trauma. 542 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,340 And then later on, uh, which we haven't talked about yet, but we probably will my suicide 543 00:37:32,340 --> 00:37:35,020 attempt that trauma. 544 00:37:35,020 --> 00:37:37,100 And uh, it was gone. 545 00:37:37,100 --> 00:37:38,980 So check it out. 546 00:37:38,980 --> 00:37:47,020 So, uh, EMDR, everything is, you know, some things work for some people and vice versa 547 00:37:47,020 --> 00:37:52,060 and it's all over the map, but, uh, that really fixed up my flashbacks and I came back and 548 00:37:52,060 --> 00:37:53,860 you know, could sleep. 549 00:37:53,860 --> 00:37:54,860 That's so good to hear. 550 00:37:54,860 --> 00:37:59,580 I'm actually, uh, my little boy is going to be going through EMDR, um, at a clinic locally 551 00:37:59,580 --> 00:38:00,580 here. 552 00:38:00,580 --> 00:38:04,140 Uh, he's had some, some trauma and he went through divorce. 553 00:38:04,140 --> 00:38:07,740 He saw some things in the other household and you know, there's definitely some things 554 00:38:07,740 --> 00:38:09,780 that I know will help him. 555 00:38:09,780 --> 00:38:13,460 Um, cause he's, he's very mild, um, intrusive thoughts himself. 556 00:38:13,460 --> 00:38:20,240 Well, for people that don't know what EMDR, it's eye movement desensitization reprocessing. 557 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:24,540 And again, James scientifically proven there's something with left, right, left, right with 558 00:38:24,540 --> 00:38:26,900 your eyes and your brain. 559 00:38:26,900 --> 00:38:29,020 And that's how this is all based. 560 00:38:29,020 --> 00:38:34,740 All I know it worked is it worked for me of, uh, anybody struggling out there with, uh, 561 00:38:34,740 --> 00:38:41,580 PTSD or symptoms, uh, you know, well, you know, we should just probably get it clear 562 00:38:41,580 --> 00:38:47,300 right now, mental illness or for me, obsessive compulsive disorder or PTSD. 563 00:38:47,300 --> 00:38:53,620 If you've got one of these things, you're going to have symptoms of the others. 564 00:38:53,620 --> 00:38:59,660 Uh, you know, there's, there's such a crossover, um, that, you know, I've talked to a lot of 565 00:38:59,660 --> 00:39:07,940 first responders and, and, uh, uh, military veterans and that, and we all, uh, talk about, 566 00:39:07,940 --> 00:39:11,820 yeah, God, I get so depressed or get a little depressed or, you know, different degrees 567 00:39:11,820 --> 00:39:13,660 or anxiety or panic attacks. 568 00:39:13,660 --> 00:39:18,060 Oh yeah, I get that, but you know, different degrees, but the one common denominator that 569 00:39:18,060 --> 00:39:23,140 we all go, holy moly, we sure have a lot of anger. 570 00:39:23,140 --> 00:39:30,940 And for me, I can just, I think my anger, uh, and talking to all these guys and gals 571 00:39:30,940 --> 00:39:38,820 is it, it's the inability to control your thoughts, your emotions, your feelings, and 572 00:39:38,820 --> 00:39:41,040 you become very, very angry. 573 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,460 That's just my own theory. 574 00:39:42,460 --> 00:39:45,380 Yeah, no, no, I can absolutely agree. 575 00:39:45,380 --> 00:39:50,060 I see it not only in my, you know, men and women I've worked alongside, but in myself 576 00:39:50,060 --> 00:39:51,220 as well. 577 00:39:51,220 --> 00:39:55,460 And that's often how it would manifest, like I'd say probably the worst year of my life 578 00:39:55,460 --> 00:40:03,220 was, um, working a very, very busy fire station and going through paramedic school and going 579 00:40:03,220 --> 00:40:07,380 through a divorce, being a single dad, you know, and it was just all those stresses compressed 580 00:40:07,380 --> 00:40:08,380 together. 581 00:40:08,380 --> 00:40:10,380 And yeah, that was, that was my trigger. 582 00:40:10,380 --> 00:40:14,460 I was ready to throw down with, with whoever, you know, and I think that's something that 583 00:40:14,460 --> 00:40:17,740 does manifest very strongly with first responders. 584 00:40:17,740 --> 00:40:25,380 Well, yeah, you know, um, I got a chance, uh, opportunity to speak in Niagara falls, 585 00:40:25,380 --> 00:40:29,860 uh, uh, to the fire chiefs convention. 586 00:40:29,860 --> 00:40:34,580 And then I went, and I think it was for Canada, all the fire chiefs in Canada. 587 00:40:34,580 --> 00:40:40,500 And then, uh, I went up and I visited four different, uh, fire halls and just trying 588 00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:45,940 to get guys because you're, you guys live together, your teammates, you guys and gals 589 00:40:45,940 --> 00:40:52,940 are, you know, you're a team and, but also you're in a high testosterone type job, like 590 00:40:52,940 --> 00:40:58,260 an athlete or a cop or military firefighters and paramedics. 591 00:40:58,260 --> 00:41:03,540 Um, so you wear that Superman cape and you almost start to believe that your own, your 592 00:41:03,540 --> 00:41:06,260 own BS, you know, I'm tough. 593 00:41:06,260 --> 00:41:07,260 It doesn't affect me. 594 00:41:07,260 --> 00:41:08,820 It doesn't affect me. 595 00:41:08,820 --> 00:41:13,740 So I'm visiting these fire halls up in Toronto after, and you know, just, you know, being 596 00:41:13,740 --> 00:41:19,420 an ex hockey player, especially in Canada, uh, they think it's a big deal, you know, 597 00:41:19,420 --> 00:41:23,460 that you come to their fire hall and, and that, and what I was trying to get these guys 598 00:41:23,460 --> 00:41:30,840 to do is be, uh, you know, so the, the alarm rings and they went out on a call and it was, 599 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,540 they come back, they're back in 30 minutes. 600 00:41:33,540 --> 00:41:36,060 And uh, I said, how, what happened? 601 00:41:36,060 --> 00:41:37,940 You guys are, you know, let's talk about this. 602 00:41:37,940 --> 00:41:39,380 Oh, it's just a little fender bender. 603 00:41:39,380 --> 00:41:41,380 We showed up and left. 604 00:41:41,380 --> 00:41:46,340 Um, but then the one guy had, cause we'd been talking, I'd been kind of talking to these, 605 00:41:46,340 --> 00:41:52,140 these guys and gals and, and the one guy got quite emotional and he said, you know, remember 606 00:41:52,140 --> 00:41:55,860 about a month ago, I pulled that kid out of a car and he was dead. 607 00:41:55,860 --> 00:41:57,860 It was a big car wreck. 608 00:41:57,860 --> 00:42:03,300 And he says, I'm holding this kid in my arms and he's wearing the same t-shirt that his 609 00:42:03,300 --> 00:42:05,940 son has and he's about the same age. 610 00:42:05,940 --> 00:42:08,700 And he said, man, that, that rocked my world. 611 00:42:08,700 --> 00:42:10,580 I really struggled. 612 00:42:10,580 --> 00:42:13,540 And it was almost like everybody looked at him and said, well, why didn't you say something 613 00:42:13,540 --> 00:42:14,540 buddy? 614 00:42:14,540 --> 00:42:16,620 We understand, but they don't. 615 00:42:16,620 --> 00:42:23,020 So then another guy opened up, he said, well, and I said, guys, that's what you got to do. 616 00:42:23,020 --> 00:42:27,540 You guys, you all come back from one of these calls, you know, check in, especially if it's 617 00:42:27,540 --> 00:42:34,620 a bad one and you've witnessed death and you know, who knows what kind of blood and gore. 618 00:42:34,620 --> 00:42:37,580 Um, you know, talk about it. 619 00:42:37,580 --> 00:42:42,780 You got to, we need to process things and let them go through our body, let them go 620 00:42:42,780 --> 00:42:47,940 through our mind and, and come to some sort of a healing point. 621 00:42:47,940 --> 00:42:55,700 Um, but we don't because society and the stigma with mental illness is such that, uh, oh, 622 00:42:55,700 --> 00:42:57,540 you don't, you don't talk about stuff like that. 623 00:42:57,540 --> 00:42:58,540 You don't cry. 624 00:42:58,540 --> 00:43:01,120 You don't cry in public, you know, all these things. 625 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,220 And that goes back to our society. 626 00:43:03,220 --> 00:43:07,740 I remember my dad raising a hand, I'd be, uh, cry, I was crying about something. 627 00:43:07,740 --> 00:43:10,540 He raised his hand and said, I'll give you something to cry about. 628 00:43:10,540 --> 00:43:15,180 In other words, he's, he's, he's saying physical pain. 629 00:43:15,180 --> 00:43:16,180 Okay. 630 00:43:16,180 --> 00:43:21,140 You can cry cause it hurts, but I was upset about something else and mentally or, you 631 00:43:21,140 --> 00:43:23,300 know, emotionally, let's say. 632 00:43:23,300 --> 00:43:29,540 And so right away from kids, we're, we're raised in our society that, uh, you, you, 633 00:43:29,540 --> 00:43:31,220 you tough through this stuff. 634 00:43:31,220 --> 00:43:35,940 You don't process it, you keep it inside and well, you know what happens there. 635 00:43:35,940 --> 00:43:39,380 Uh, sooner or later it comes and bite you right in the butt. 636 00:43:39,380 --> 00:43:40,380 Yeah. 637 00:43:40,380 --> 00:43:41,380 Now what's your observation? 638 00:43:41,380 --> 00:43:44,780 Cause I've talked about this quite a few times for me, I'm 45 now. 639 00:43:44,780 --> 00:43:51,840 So like, I guess one generation behind you, um, when I was growing up, the, the versions 640 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:58,300 of a man was Rambo Schwarzenegger, you know, all these, and again, it was that men don't 641 00:43:58,300 --> 00:44:00,060 cry, you know, right. 642 00:44:00,060 --> 00:44:05,180 I just shot 20,000 Vietnamese with, you know, 10 bullets, you know, and I'm unaffected by 643 00:44:05,180 --> 00:44:06,180 it. 644 00:44:06,180 --> 00:44:10,180 And on the other end of that, the women, they grow up looking, thinking they got to look 645 00:44:10,180 --> 00:44:13,180 like, uh, you know, these movie stars. 646 00:44:13,180 --> 00:44:14,180 Yeah. 647 00:44:14,180 --> 00:44:16,180 And be helpless and need men's help. 648 00:44:16,180 --> 00:44:17,180 Right. 649 00:44:17,180 --> 00:44:18,180 Yeah. 650 00:44:18,180 --> 00:44:21,500 So, so what I find very interesting and it'd be interesting to hear your perspective on 651 00:44:21,500 --> 00:44:24,820 this is the greatest generation as, as we call them. 652 00:44:24,820 --> 00:44:30,820 I think it's absolutely an apt name, these men and women were doing incredible things. 653 00:44:30,820 --> 00:44:35,060 You know, the men obviously were primarily overseas actually fighting the women's sit 654 00:44:35,060 --> 00:44:41,620 right over into all the stereotypically male roles and kept this country, you know, working. 655 00:44:41,620 --> 00:44:48,380 Um, and then, you know, it seems like the following generation, we, we went completely 656 00:44:48,380 --> 00:44:54,020 backwards and it seems to me where that, that kind of mentality started in the forties, 657 00:44:54,020 --> 00:44:58,140 all these different colors and creeds are fighting side by side against this, you know, 658 00:44:58,140 --> 00:44:59,140 horrendous evil. 659 00:44:59,140 --> 00:45:03,620 And in the fifties, we're stringing black people up on trees and, you know, demonizing 660 00:45:03,620 --> 00:45:07,060 gay population and telling women they need to get back in the kitchen. 661 00:45:07,060 --> 00:45:15,500 So I find it very strange understanding how we went from what must have been the most 662 00:45:15,500 --> 00:45:22,360 immense gratitude post-World War II to then this distorted almost Victorian philosophy 663 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:23,620 on so many things. 664 00:45:23,620 --> 00:45:28,300 And I think that's where the initial men don't cry stuff probably started. 665 00:45:28,300 --> 00:45:29,300 Yeah. 666 00:45:29,300 --> 00:45:34,940 And, and I also, I also think that, uh, you know, back in those days, let's, let's go 667 00:45:34,940 --> 00:45:40,500 back a hundred years, even 120 years and all that life was about survival. 668 00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:44,340 Life was about getting enough firewood for the winter for your cabin or wherever you 669 00:45:44,340 --> 00:45:50,180 are, your farmhouse or, um, you know, it was, everything was about survival and then the 670 00:45:50,180 --> 00:45:52,820 war against survival. 671 00:45:52,820 --> 00:45:59,940 And then, you know, so where our society to me has come now, it's, it's about entertainment. 672 00:45:59,940 --> 00:46:02,580 All we want to do is be entertained. 673 00:46:02,580 --> 00:46:09,060 Whether you're on your phone playing a game, um, you know, watching videos and that, it, 674 00:46:09,060 --> 00:46:13,820 we've lost a lot of that, uh, uh, you know, it used to be both survival. 675 00:46:13,820 --> 00:46:20,020 I mean, people just, they had to, you know, uh, work and do whatever they could just for 676 00:46:20,020 --> 00:46:25,820 survival and hopefully, uh, provide some comfort, some warmth for their home. 677 00:46:25,820 --> 00:46:33,060 Um, you know, like I said, firewood even was a, was a priority and now it's a, it's a cell 678 00:46:33,060 --> 00:46:34,820 phone and a video game. 679 00:46:34,820 --> 00:46:35,820 Yeah. 680 00:46:35,820 --> 00:46:37,380 Now that's a very interesting perspective. 681 00:46:37,380 --> 00:46:44,060 And I think that that can be absolutely proven by the fact that when people who, for example, 682 00:46:44,060 --> 00:46:49,900 have struggled mentally, go on these retreats with, you know, other veterans or other first 683 00:46:49,900 --> 00:46:56,740 responders or go onto a horse ranch and ride for two weeks, they're tapping back into that 684 00:46:56,740 --> 00:46:58,060 old school way of thinking. 685 00:46:58,060 --> 00:47:03,500 I remember one day someone brought me a bunch of, uh, logs and then we had a fireplace in 686 00:47:03,500 --> 00:47:08,780 my old house and I spent the day just with an axe and a wedge chopping all, basically 687 00:47:08,780 --> 00:47:11,460 half a tree into, into firewood. 688 00:47:11,460 --> 00:47:16,220 And it was one of the most therapeutic things I remember doing in a long time. 689 00:47:16,220 --> 00:47:21,980 So, and, and on that point we could, we could also talk about, uh, meditation because a 690 00:47:21,980 --> 00:47:29,660 lot of people, um, I read a book a while back called the untethered soul and you know, reading 691 00:47:29,660 --> 00:47:33,440 is very good educational, you know, things like that. 692 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:34,980 So this book really spoke to me. 693 00:47:34,980 --> 00:47:36,380 I don't know what it was. 694 00:47:36,380 --> 00:47:40,100 You know, you read a book one time and then you reread it a year later and you go, Holy 695 00:47:40,100 --> 00:47:41,220 smokes, this is a good book. 696 00:47:41,220 --> 00:47:45,180 I didn't, it was that good, but you know, it's where you are in your life that things 697 00:47:45,180 --> 00:47:46,180 will speak to you. 698 00:47:46,180 --> 00:47:50,620 And anyways, that book really spoke to me and it kind of got me into slowing down and 699 00:47:50,620 --> 00:47:51,620 to meditate. 700 00:47:51,620 --> 00:47:56,460 And, and, but the thing is my point being is, uh, when we talk about meditation, a lot 701 00:47:56,460 --> 00:48:00,900 of people go, Oh my God, I'm not going to sit cross-legged and go home. 702 00:48:00,900 --> 00:48:01,900 No. 703 00:48:01,900 --> 00:48:07,700 Uh, the meditation that you just talked about chopping that wood was a form of meditation. 704 00:48:07,700 --> 00:48:13,540 I have a little emotional support dog and, uh, I've tried to tell my wife, you try meditating, 705 00:48:13,540 --> 00:48:14,540 man. 706 00:48:14,540 --> 00:48:15,540 You're doing really good. 707 00:48:15,540 --> 00:48:19,580 And she was, Oh, I can't, I, you know, I can't turn my brain off or whatever. 708 00:48:19,580 --> 00:48:24,620 Like so many other people say, and that's, that's fine. 709 00:48:24,620 --> 00:48:31,340 But uh, every evening she put the, uh, my little emotional support dog in her bicycle 710 00:48:31,340 --> 00:48:35,900 basket and the front handlebars and go for a bike ride. 711 00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:38,340 And uh, I was doing a different form. 712 00:48:38,340 --> 00:48:44,460 My meditation, I tried to do it, uh, more, um, structured, you know, like maybe sitting 713 00:48:44,460 --> 00:48:46,000 on a chair or laying down. 714 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,160 I can do that, do that. 715 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:49,900 Sometimes I need to do that to fall asleep. 716 00:48:49,900 --> 00:48:51,620 I need to meditate anyways. 717 00:48:51,620 --> 00:48:54,520 Um, so I'm doing another form of my meditation. 718 00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:58,260 I got a little patch of grass, uh, in front of my barn. 719 00:48:58,260 --> 00:48:59,480 It doesn't have sprinklers or anything. 720 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,620 So I have to water it by hand all every day. 721 00:49:02,620 --> 00:49:08,220 And uh, so that evening I'm, I'm, and I'm watching the, the, this, the, the water come 722 00:49:08,220 --> 00:49:11,380 out, you know, that little droplets and how they separate. 723 00:49:11,380 --> 00:49:13,940 And you know, so I'm kind of doing a form of meditation. 724 00:49:13,940 --> 00:49:18,140 My wife comes back off her bicycle ride and I said, Hey, how was your meditation? 725 00:49:18,140 --> 00:49:19,380 He goes, what are you talking about? 726 00:49:19,380 --> 00:49:20,380 I wasn't meditating. 727 00:49:20,380 --> 00:49:22,020 I said, no, you were. 728 00:49:22,020 --> 00:49:28,460 That's what you do to feel good, to connect with the earth or connect with God or connect 729 00:49:28,460 --> 00:49:32,060 with the animal in the basket or all of the above. 730 00:49:32,060 --> 00:49:37,420 And so point being, don't get, don't get a lot of people get like a little bit like my 731 00:49:37,420 --> 00:49:44,460 wife a little bit, uh, uh, you know, I don't know what the word would be weird. 732 00:49:44,460 --> 00:49:47,060 Like a little bit weird about this word meditation. 733 00:49:47,060 --> 00:49:48,060 Yeah. 734 00:49:48,060 --> 00:49:50,900 Well, I do the same thing actually, um, every morning. 735 00:49:50,900 --> 00:49:54,500 And it took me a little while to realize that I was doing exactly what you're talking about, 736 00:49:54,500 --> 00:49:59,780 but my routine in the morning is walk my son to the bus, but I bring my dog with me and 737 00:49:59,780 --> 00:50:00,780 then we carry on. 738 00:50:00,780 --> 00:50:03,740 It's like a, probably a mile and a half walk. 739 00:50:03,740 --> 00:50:08,020 Um, but I always leave my cell phone in the house and, and yeah, that's, that's basically 740 00:50:08,020 --> 00:50:12,260 30 minutes with, you know, not distracted by anything. 741 00:50:12,260 --> 00:50:17,120 And it's funny, it's a lap, two laps around this lake and it takes us the full first lap 742 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,500 is kind of clearing all the monkey mind. 743 00:50:19,500 --> 00:50:23,140 And then the second lap is actually kind of, you know, still somewhat. 744 00:50:23,140 --> 00:50:26,060 I mean, obviously you still got thoughts, but yeah, absolutely. 745 00:50:26,060 --> 00:50:27,060 I agree a hundred percent. 746 00:50:27,060 --> 00:50:28,060 Yeah. 747 00:50:28,060 --> 00:50:29,780 And I'm doing the equine therapy now. 748 00:50:29,780 --> 00:50:36,020 I'm trying to get my certification, uh, because it's been, uh, really, really helpful with 749 00:50:36,020 --> 00:50:43,060 our, uh, first responders and military with trauma PTSD, uh, doing this equine therapy. 750 00:50:43,060 --> 00:50:45,500 So that's kind of my goal right now. 751 00:50:45,500 --> 00:50:46,500 Right. 752 00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:47,660 Well, I sent you the link. 753 00:50:47,660 --> 00:50:49,820 I just had Buck Braneman on the show. 754 00:50:49,820 --> 00:50:52,140 Um, and yeah, another amazing guy. 755 00:50:52,140 --> 00:50:55,580 And again, he wasn't going down that road specifically to do equine therapy, but it's 756 00:50:55,580 --> 00:51:00,140 exactly what it did for him and then ultimately he's doing with these other people. 757 00:51:00,140 --> 00:51:04,580 And I think it's one of the things he says is the horse, a horse is a mirror to your 758 00:51:04,580 --> 00:51:07,300 soul and I can absolutely agree. 759 00:51:07,300 --> 00:51:13,420 Well, they're very intuitive animal and if, uh, they'll pick up on your energy and you 760 00:51:13,420 --> 00:51:18,200 can pick up on theirs if you get into, um, yeah, they're very, very intuitive and very 761 00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:22,420 helpful in the sequine therapy that we are doing. 762 00:51:22,420 --> 00:51:30,140 Um, I had a chance to do a, uh, this was, oh shoot, 10 years ago, maybe 12 years ago, 763 00:51:30,140 --> 00:51:35,820 I got a military contract to actually teach soldiers how to, you know, catch a horse, 764 00:51:35,820 --> 00:51:39,260 ride a horse, bridle horse, saddle horse, you know, all that stuff. 765 00:51:39,260 --> 00:51:44,580 And unbeknownst to me, they were going to Afghanistan to look for bin Laden in the caves 766 00:51:44,580 --> 00:51:46,100 on horseback. 767 00:51:46,100 --> 00:51:47,940 And of course, military is very secretive. 768 00:51:47,940 --> 00:51:53,900 All I had to do is teach these soldiers, uh, what to do with the horse unbeknownst to me 769 00:51:53,900 --> 00:51:56,980 where they were going and what they were doing. 770 00:51:56,980 --> 00:52:03,220 And uh, that's where I always touch on the military and first responders, uh, because, 771 00:52:03,220 --> 00:52:10,220 uh, those types of jobs, um, how mentally tough do you have to be James to do those 772 00:52:10,220 --> 00:52:11,220 jobs? 773 00:52:11,220 --> 00:52:15,680 You have to be very, very mentally tough because you're, you're, you're living in danger almost 774 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:16,680 every day. 775 00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:20,620 You know, if you're a firefighter, you might have to run into a building, you know, that's, 776 00:52:20,620 --> 00:52:24,900 you know, I know you're trained and you, you know, do it the right way and everything, 777 00:52:24,900 --> 00:52:29,680 but there's always a danger and there are military, uh, police, all these things are 778 00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:31,140 high dangerous jobs. 779 00:52:31,140 --> 00:52:37,460 And so our trauma with these individuals, I think it's a lot of, uh, um, yeah, there 780 00:52:37,460 --> 00:52:41,220 could be a major event, but a lot of time, I think it's a cumulative trauma. 781 00:52:41,220 --> 00:52:45,660 Uh, remember the guys I talked about the firefighter, pulled the little boy out of 782 00:52:45,660 --> 00:52:51,260 a car, uh, you know, he, he never talked about that for a month. 783 00:52:51,260 --> 00:52:53,220 That was the first time he opened up about it. 784 00:52:53,220 --> 00:52:58,060 Well, what happens is that stuff gets stuck in us and it's all because of the stigma. 785 00:52:58,060 --> 00:52:59,660 Uh, we'll got to be tough. 786 00:52:59,660 --> 00:53:07,780 I don't want my, uh, my fellow firefighters and fire gals and, uh, to, um, you think I'm 787 00:53:07,780 --> 00:53:09,980 weak and it's not a weakness. 788 00:53:09,980 --> 00:53:11,300 It's a sickness. 789 00:53:11,300 --> 00:53:16,900 The most mentally tough people and I'll use the military on this, on this one, mentally 790 00:53:16,900 --> 00:53:20,180 tough, they're going to a job, they, they, they could die. 791 00:53:20,180 --> 00:53:26,460 And so they go over and they fight the, from Af, just Afghanistan and Iraq, we had, it 792 00:53:26,460 --> 00:53:33,620 was up to 22 suicides a day from our veterans, those veterans, just those two wars. 793 00:53:33,620 --> 00:53:38,260 And I think it's down to 19 now, cause I think we're, we're, we're progressing, getting them 794 00:53:38,260 --> 00:53:39,260 help. 795 00:53:39,260 --> 00:53:45,860 But, uh, it, it, so my point being is most mentally tough people in the world and yet 796 00:53:45,860 --> 00:53:52,540 they, they come back and they're damaged and they self medicate and die by suicide 22 a 797 00:53:52,540 --> 00:53:53,540 day. 798 00:53:53,540 --> 00:53:55,740 Uh, that tells me one thing. 799 00:53:55,740 --> 00:53:59,140 It doesn't matter how tough you are or think you are. 800 00:53:59,140 --> 00:54:00,580 It has nothing to do with that. 801 00:54:00,580 --> 00:54:07,700 It is a sickness or an injury from, uh, an event or, uh, a bunch of events that have 802 00:54:07,700 --> 00:54:13,140 happened that is accumulated and it's now sick and it's in you. 803 00:54:13,140 --> 00:54:18,300 It's got nothing to do with how strong you are because, uh, we've just, just my examples 804 00:54:18,300 --> 00:54:19,660 there have proven that. 805 00:54:19,660 --> 00:54:20,660 Yeah. 806 00:54:20,660 --> 00:54:27,740 And I love, I love the fact that I get so many people who, you know, we revere as a 807 00:54:27,740 --> 00:54:32,140 man, you know, whether it's a Navy seal, you know, firefighter, police officer, you 808 00:54:32,140 --> 00:54:39,420 know, uh, uh, NHL goalkeeper like yourself and enforcer as well, um, saying, no, this 809 00:54:39,420 --> 00:54:40,420 is not weakness. 810 00:54:40,420 --> 00:54:41,660 This is not being a pussy. 811 00:54:41,660 --> 00:54:46,500 This is a real thing and forget about this facade of what a man's supposed to be like, 812 00:54:46,500 --> 00:54:48,380 because that's bullshit. 813 00:54:48,380 --> 00:54:49,980 This is what a man's supposed to be like. 814 00:54:49,980 --> 00:54:54,820 He's supposed to be tough and be able to chop wood and protect his family, but also, you 815 00:54:54,820 --> 00:54:55,980 know, compassionate. 816 00:54:55,980 --> 00:55:00,900 And if you're going to be compassionate, then you're going to be affected by things that, 817 00:55:00,900 --> 00:55:02,260 you know, uh, traumatic. 818 00:55:02,260 --> 00:55:04,620 I mean, that's what humans are supposed to do. 819 00:55:04,620 --> 00:55:05,620 Yeah. 820 00:55:05,620 --> 00:55:06,660 Yeah, it's true. 821 00:55:06,660 --> 00:55:12,100 But the thing is we don't process, uh, these things because we were stuck being that tough 822 00:55:12,100 --> 00:55:13,240 person. 823 00:55:13,240 --> 00:55:16,020 So we just keep it inside, keep it inside and keep it inside. 824 00:55:16,020 --> 00:55:17,060 We don't process it. 825 00:55:17,060 --> 00:55:19,740 You, we just keep lying to ourselves saying, oh, I'm tough. 826 00:55:19,740 --> 00:55:21,300 It doesn't, oh, that doesn't bother me. 827 00:55:21,300 --> 00:55:22,660 Oh, that, oh, come on. 828 00:55:22,660 --> 00:55:26,660 Uh, so you come home from work and, uh, Hey honey, how was your day? 829 00:55:26,660 --> 00:55:27,660 Great. 830 00:55:27,660 --> 00:55:28,660 No problems. 831 00:55:28,660 --> 00:55:29,660 Really? 832 00:55:29,660 --> 00:55:31,020 What did you see that day? 833 00:55:31,020 --> 00:55:36,980 Uh, you know, you might've seen several dead people, you know, things. 834 00:55:36,980 --> 00:55:37,980 How was your day? 835 00:55:37,980 --> 00:55:38,980 Oh, mine. 836 00:55:38,980 --> 00:55:40,180 Just another day at the office. 837 00:55:40,180 --> 00:55:42,020 Are you kidding me? 838 00:55:42,020 --> 00:55:47,380 So we got to learn to, uh, to process these things and let them, and that's really what 839 00:55:47,380 --> 00:55:53,060 changed my, my whole, uh, PTSD and all that was the acceptance. 840 00:55:53,060 --> 00:55:57,900 Number one and number two, doing something to, uh, to get well. 841 00:55:57,900 --> 00:55:58,900 Yeah. 842 00:55:58,900 --> 00:56:01,420 So you, you touched on obviously the suicide attempt. 843 00:56:01,420 --> 00:56:05,820 So you were just to go back for a bit, you, you were prescribed Zoloft. 844 00:56:05,820 --> 00:56:08,780 You, it was very successful for a number of years. 845 00:56:08,780 --> 00:56:14,900 Kind of lead us through, you know, what, what happened where it, where it started not meeting 846 00:56:14,900 --> 00:56:16,220 the need anymore. 847 00:56:16,220 --> 00:56:19,140 Well, there's a couple, a couple of things. 848 00:56:19,140 --> 00:56:25,460 Number one, uh, you know, I was on that drug for 14, 15 years and doing great. 849 00:56:25,460 --> 00:56:29,220 Uh, but you know, I just thought that's all I had to do. 850 00:56:29,220 --> 00:56:33,780 So I didn't, I didn't check in with Dr. Stahl, my psychiatrist, you know, by now what my 851 00:56:33,780 --> 00:56:35,500 career has moved on. 852 00:56:35,500 --> 00:56:37,180 Uh, I'm not in San Diego. 853 00:56:37,180 --> 00:56:39,300 I'm in the NHL coaching. 854 00:56:39,300 --> 00:56:44,580 Um, you know, and when you have a team doctor, all you do is say, Hey, I need a prescription 855 00:56:44,580 --> 00:56:46,420 refilled and they do it. 856 00:56:46,420 --> 00:56:50,780 Uh, I'm being honest to them that, you know, and, and to me, I didn't know I was supposed 857 00:56:50,780 --> 00:56:54,820 to be, uh, keeping a check on this and how are my moods? 858 00:56:54,820 --> 00:57:00,820 Um, so over that time period, uh, my body started to get immune to the drug. 859 00:57:00,820 --> 00:57:05,420 The drug was not working, uh, gradually over time. 860 00:57:05,420 --> 00:57:11,540 And then another hockey player cut his jugular vein in a hockey game in Buffalo, same town. 861 00:57:11,540 --> 00:57:18,420 Um, and I'm coaching in the NHL, so I'm very media accessible and the questions are coming 862 00:57:18,420 --> 00:57:21,780 to me fast and furious, you know, relive that relive that. 863 00:57:21,780 --> 00:57:22,780 What was it like? 864 00:57:22,780 --> 00:57:23,780 What should he do? 865 00:57:23,780 --> 00:57:24,780 What blah, blah, blah. 866 00:57:24,780 --> 00:57:33,100 And the other thing, um, and my, and the combination of that and my drug not working, uh, led me 867 00:57:33,100 --> 00:57:39,540 into a spiral downward depression wise, anxiety wise, uh, everything started to just come 868 00:57:39,540 --> 00:57:45,140 back and, uh, you know, being the tough guy, I just said, well, I'll have, I'm fine. 869 00:57:45,140 --> 00:57:46,140 I'm fine. 870 00:57:46,140 --> 00:57:48,860 Uh, I'll have a couple of beers. 871 00:57:48,860 --> 00:57:50,500 And for me, that's what alcohol did. 872 00:57:50,500 --> 00:57:53,860 It would calm me down or, or bring me up if I was depressed. 873 00:57:53,860 --> 00:57:56,220 And, uh, so I started drinking a lot. 874 00:57:56,220 --> 00:58:01,420 I was drinking heavily throughout the day just to get through the day. 875 00:58:01,420 --> 00:58:06,900 And uh, that's when one day I was, uh, I was up all night. 876 00:58:06,900 --> 00:58:10,620 I'd been drinking all night and all half of the day. 877 00:58:10,620 --> 00:58:16,300 Uh, it was about two 30 in the afternoon and I went behind the barn and I had a gun and 878 00:58:16,300 --> 00:58:18,620 I was shooting targets anyways, off and on. 879 00:58:18,620 --> 00:58:23,840 And, um, I put it under my chin and my wife had actually showed up and said, what is going 880 00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:24,840 on? 881 00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:29,420 She could tell cause I was just sweating and antsy and, and, you know, just like, like 882 00:58:29,420 --> 00:58:36,500 a caged animal almost, uh, just not liking and, and, and like a lot of suicide survivors, 883 00:58:36,500 --> 00:58:41,500 uh, that I've spoken with, you know, I didn't want to die, but I didn't want to live in 884 00:58:41,500 --> 00:58:43,260 this pain anymore. 885 00:58:43,260 --> 00:58:48,660 So not even knowing if there's any more bullets in the gun, I put it under my chin and I told 886 00:58:48,660 --> 00:58:51,900 her, this is what I feel like doing, turning this goddamn brain off. 887 00:58:51,900 --> 00:58:55,540 And I pulled the trigger and yeah, there was a bullet in it. 888 00:58:55,540 --> 00:58:59,180 Um, very, very lucky. 889 00:58:59,180 --> 00:59:07,660 Uh, it, uh, it lodged in my skull and, uh, you know, it was, uh, it was there that I 890 00:59:07,660 --> 00:59:16,500 really, I'd gone at that time, 20 years of undiagnosed PTSD and it took that. 891 00:59:16,500 --> 00:59:20,460 And my wife was trying to get me help and you know, uh, we were getting turned down 892 00:59:20,460 --> 00:59:24,620 here and, oh, we don't take your insurance and this and that and all sorts of things. 893 00:59:24,620 --> 00:59:28,660 Oh, he can't see for three months, this, uh, one doctor. 894 00:59:28,660 --> 00:59:32,540 And anyways, so, uh, I got sent to a treatment center. 895 00:59:32,540 --> 00:59:37,300 I went to the hospital, I was put in, they put me in a coma, uh, for a couple of weeks 896 00:59:37,300 --> 00:59:38,940 and let the swelling go down. 897 00:59:38,940 --> 00:59:43,500 Once I got to that hospital, they sent me to a treatment center, a dual diagnosed treatment 898 00:59:43,500 --> 00:59:49,100 center and that was the first time I was ever diagnosed with PTSD. 899 00:59:49,100 --> 00:59:51,860 And at first, James, I was so insulted. 900 00:59:51,860 --> 00:59:54,620 PT, why do I have PTSD? 901 00:59:54,620 --> 00:59:56,060 What are you talking about? 902 00:59:56,060 --> 00:59:59,740 And she said, well, you got, you know, you jugular vein cut and you didn't have any counseling. 903 00:59:59,740 --> 01:00:01,820 You came back so quick. 904 01:00:01,820 --> 01:00:04,540 And I said, and I said, you don't understand. 905 01:00:04,540 --> 01:00:11,300 My ego being an athlete, a former athlete, now coach, you know, just was like, I came 906 01:00:11,300 --> 01:00:18,660 back in 10 days, you bitch, you know, I was so insulted that, you know, she was almost, 907 01:00:18,660 --> 01:00:25,180 it was like that label would be making me a week. 908 01:00:25,180 --> 01:00:30,260 And uh, the, the, the big thing is I read a book on trauma. 909 01:00:30,260 --> 01:00:33,300 Uh, she gave it to me cause she wasn't getting, I was in there six months. 910 01:00:33,300 --> 01:00:35,020 I mean, that's half a year. 911 01:00:35,020 --> 01:00:37,460 Uh, I was pretty damaged in the first two months. 912 01:00:37,460 --> 01:00:40,300 I was just a mean, angry guy and she couldn't get through to me. 913 01:00:40,300 --> 01:00:45,260 And I, she gave me a book and I read this one chapter on how, uh, on trauma and how 914 01:00:45,260 --> 01:00:52,460 animals actually process trauma through if there, there's fight, flight and freeze. 915 01:00:52,460 --> 01:00:58,820 And if an animal is caught and goes into freeze and fools the predator, uh, it can get away. 916 01:00:58,820 --> 01:01:04,660 But what it does is it shakes violently and that's the animal way and we're animals too. 917 01:01:04,660 --> 01:01:08,500 And we animal processed is trauma. 918 01:01:08,500 --> 01:01:11,500 And I didn't, I, I read that and I'm starting to think about it. 919 01:01:11,500 --> 01:01:17,060 And my wife's come to visit me in, uh, we live in Nevada, so she's coming over the mountains 920 01:01:17,060 --> 01:01:23,700 into California where I was, uh, the treatment center was, and she got in a little fender 921 01:01:23,700 --> 01:01:27,700 bender and she was so proud how she was describing, Oh, just a little fender bender. 922 01:01:27,700 --> 01:01:32,580 But she's so proud because the cops came, she filled out a little report and she's like, 923 01:01:32,580 --> 01:01:37,580 and then her whole demeanor went negative and depressive saying, and then I got in the 924 01:01:37,580 --> 01:01:40,420 car and I just started to shake. 925 01:01:40,420 --> 01:01:46,140 And then I cried and I went, Oh my God, the story about how animals process and how she 926 01:01:46,140 --> 01:01:48,220 just processed trauma. 927 01:01:48,220 --> 01:01:50,180 That's what we're supposed to do. 928 01:01:50,180 --> 01:01:54,980 But in, in a lot of, uh, you know, in society, we don't do that. 929 01:01:54,980 --> 01:02:01,580 And especially in, in the high testosterone jobs, like first responders and military, 930 01:02:01,580 --> 01:02:08,340 we're, we're, we're geared to be that tough as so be and not process, you know, as harmful 931 01:02:08,340 --> 01:02:11,340 because we're not educated on it. 932 01:02:11,340 --> 01:02:16,860 And that's where my education came in and it was a long and hard, hard journey, but 933 01:02:16,860 --> 01:02:23,940 that's what it took for me to get, uh, to, to, first of all, uh, acceptance was huge. 934 01:02:23,940 --> 01:02:32,780 I had to accept that I had this PTSD and I had to accept also that it was, uh, I don't 935 01:02:32,780 --> 01:02:38,740 want to say curable it is, but, um, manageable to curable. 936 01:02:38,740 --> 01:02:39,740 Yeah. 937 01:02:39,740 --> 01:02:43,380 And interestingly you say about the, the fight, flight and freeze. 938 01:02:43,380 --> 01:02:48,140 Cause I had a conversation with a guy who's actually a movement specialist, like a coach, 939 01:02:48,140 --> 01:02:53,100 physical coach, um, but very, very, uh, philosophical as well. 940 01:02:53,100 --> 01:02:59,100 And he talks about that even in the mental health element where you talk about suicide. 941 01:02:59,100 --> 01:03:04,940 So you've got, um, you know, fight obviously is when you're dealing with whatever trauma 942 01:03:04,940 --> 01:03:05,940 there is. 943 01:03:05,940 --> 01:03:10,580 Flight is kind of like that, uh, uh, like you were saying, burying it, you know, not, 944 01:03:10,580 --> 01:03:15,860 not addressing it, but then freeze was with a point where the, the body's given up, you 945 01:03:15,860 --> 01:03:17,140 know, just accepting the death. 946 01:03:17,140 --> 01:03:21,260 Like you said, the, the deer that's been caught at that point in a way they've already accepted 947 01:03:21,260 --> 01:03:25,180 death, but if you can, if they get away and they can process it, then they go back to 948 01:03:25,180 --> 01:03:27,920 to flow or fight again. 949 01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:32,140 But it was fascinating because with so many people, and I'm sure you've had this with 950 01:03:32,140 --> 01:03:37,740 the survivors you've spoken to people speak about getting to that point of calm when they 951 01:03:37,740 --> 01:03:41,380 realize, you know what, I am going to take my life at that moment. 952 01:03:41,380 --> 01:03:42,840 It seems like the right decision. 953 01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:45,920 And then they're almost in like a flow state for a moment. 954 01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:53,020 But then as, as just reported over and over again, if they thank God survived that attempt 955 01:03:53,020 --> 01:03:56,660 right when they were pulling the trigger, jumping off the bridge, whatever it was, they 956 01:03:56,660 --> 01:04:01,900 realize that it's wrong and they have the instant regret that they don't want to die. 957 01:04:01,900 --> 01:04:04,540 And I totally had that instant regret. 958 01:04:04,540 --> 01:04:10,480 And I know a guy, Kevin Hines, he's a, he's a pretty renowned speaker. 959 01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:16,260 He jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge and he said the second his hands left the railing, 960 01:04:16,260 --> 01:04:19,500 he regretted it and he survived amazingly. 961 01:04:19,500 --> 01:04:23,500 You know, that's a, that's a big splash that one. 962 01:04:23,500 --> 01:04:24,500 Yeah. 963 01:04:24,500 --> 01:04:28,900 You know, uh, and I'm assuming you have a lot of first responders that, uh, listen to 964 01:04:28,900 --> 01:04:31,100 you and your podcast. 965 01:04:31,100 --> 01:04:40,780 Um, interestingly, uh, somehow one of the paramedics, uh, she was the first, first one 966 01:04:40,780 --> 01:04:43,020 on the site after I shot myself. 967 01:04:43,020 --> 01:04:48,460 She was the first, her and her partner were the first there and, uh, she connected with 968 01:04:48,460 --> 01:04:49,980 my wife somehow on Facebook. 969 01:04:49,980 --> 01:04:50,980 I don't know. 970 01:04:50,980 --> 01:04:55,140 It had been, uh, maybe, maybe four or five years ago. 971 01:04:55,140 --> 01:05:01,340 Um, and she came over, we invited her over and we're sitting outside on the patio and, 972 01:05:01,340 --> 01:05:02,980 and uh, she's into horses and that. 973 01:05:02,980 --> 01:05:05,420 So she loved my place and, and everything. 974 01:05:05,420 --> 01:05:11,140 So it was interesting to hear her side of what happened. 975 01:05:11,140 --> 01:05:16,660 First of all, they're on a call, the cops, the fire paramedic, everybody's showing up 976 01:05:16,660 --> 01:05:19,520 and all they know is, is it is a gunshot. 977 01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:23,820 My wife phoned it in and said, my husband just shot himself. 978 01:05:23,820 --> 01:05:26,560 But do they know that's the truth? 979 01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:28,580 They are thinking maybe she shot him. 980 01:05:28,580 --> 01:05:33,700 Maybe they do not know what they are going, uh, in, into. 981 01:05:33,700 --> 01:05:37,520 And that, the adrenaline in itself is probably traumatic. 982 01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:43,620 You know, I mean, you're going to a situation where you don't know what it is. 983 01:05:43,620 --> 01:05:50,300 And uh, incredible that we, we became friends and now we do a, uh, through her, we do a, 984 01:05:50,300 --> 01:05:53,060 uh, what they call a CIT training. 985 01:05:53,060 --> 01:05:56,140 We speak at, uh, to first responders. 986 01:05:56,140 --> 01:05:59,180 Um, what is CIT? 987 01:05:59,180 --> 01:06:03,820 Uh, crisis intervention training, I think. 988 01:06:03,820 --> 01:06:05,300 CIT. 989 01:06:05,300 --> 01:06:11,620 And yeah, and, and it's interesting cause you know, I got educated on what you guys 990 01:06:11,620 --> 01:06:14,660 and gals are going into. 991 01:06:14,660 --> 01:06:19,180 And of course she heard my side of the story, you know, about, uh, I didn't even know if 992 01:06:19,180 --> 01:06:22,260 the gun was loaded and that. 993 01:06:22,260 --> 01:06:23,260 So interesting. 994 01:06:23,260 --> 01:06:24,260 Yeah. 995 01:06:24,260 --> 01:06:28,220 Well, and I'm reading the book as well, that part where when everyone first arrived, your 996 01:06:28,220 --> 01:06:32,100 wife was, you know, hanging on to you and they weren't sure if, like you said, she was 997 01:06:32,100 --> 01:06:34,380 a shooter and they were trying to get her away from you. 998 01:06:34,380 --> 01:06:38,780 And I can imagine, I mean, the potential of that going wrong in itself. 999 01:06:38,780 --> 01:06:42,060 Or you hear about, uh, suicide by cop. 1000 01:06:42,060 --> 01:06:47,060 Maybe she was thinking, if I let him go, he's going to rush the cops and get shot and die. 1001 01:06:47,060 --> 01:06:48,060 You know what I mean? 1002 01:06:48,060 --> 01:06:49,060 There who knows? 1003 01:06:49,060 --> 01:06:56,580 Like that, that was such a dramatic event and traumatic and not, you know, for me, of 1004 01:06:56,580 --> 01:07:01,040 course, I just shot myself from my wife who just saw me do it for the first responders 1005 01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:04,540 that are showing up and not knowing what the hell is going on. 1006 01:07:04,540 --> 01:07:09,620 Uh, you know, a lot of trauma going on in, in, in that short time. 1007 01:07:09,620 --> 01:07:10,620 Absolutely. 1008 01:07:10,620 --> 01:07:14,180 Well, and speaking of the shooting, you still have the bullet in your skull. 1009 01:07:14,180 --> 01:07:15,180 Is that right? 1010 01:07:15,180 --> 01:07:16,180 Yeah, I do. 1011 01:07:16,180 --> 01:07:17,180 Yep. 1012 01:07:17,180 --> 01:07:18,180 That's a hell of a reminder. 1013 01:07:18,180 --> 01:07:19,180 Every time you have an X-ray. 1014 01:07:19,180 --> 01:07:26,220 Yeah, I do have an X-ray of it and I do use it out in my keynote speeches that I do a 1015 01:07:26,220 --> 01:07:27,580 lot of public speaking now. 1016 01:07:27,580 --> 01:07:39,140 So when I show it, um, it, it's just, uh, I, I usually, uh, start to get choked up because 1017 01:07:39,140 --> 01:07:43,900 it just, uh, you know, how that should have been my third time dead, you know? 1018 01:07:43,900 --> 01:07:48,500 So how grateful am I, you know, and, and that's why I do what I do. 1019 01:07:48,500 --> 01:07:49,860 That's why I wrote my book. 1020 01:07:49,860 --> 01:07:55,100 That's why I public speak is I know there's people out there that were just like me suffering 1021 01:07:55,100 --> 01:08:01,060 in silence and darkness and because of the stigma, they don't want to step out, uh, and 1022 01:08:01,060 --> 01:08:02,060 tell anybody. 1023 01:08:02,060 --> 01:08:08,900 And it's amazing how many people can relate, you know, I always tell people, you may not 1024 01:08:08,900 --> 01:08:12,700 be mentally ill, but I know, you know, what depression is because if you ever lost a loved 1025 01:08:12,700 --> 01:08:18,940 one or went through a divorce or, you know, the, the, the things that life throws at us, 1026 01:08:18,940 --> 01:08:24,540 you know, depression to a degree, you may not be clinically depressed, but so we all 1027 01:08:24,540 --> 01:08:25,540 can relate. 1028 01:08:25,540 --> 01:08:31,500 And then it comes to that, those two words, me too, you know, somebody, uh, actually, 1029 01:08:31,500 --> 01:08:35,980 uh, divulges some, some issues that they're going through. 1030 01:08:35,980 --> 01:08:37,460 You're not going to have the answers. 1031 01:08:37,460 --> 01:08:41,980 And, and, you know, I've seen enough psychologists and counselors that they don't always have 1032 01:08:41,980 --> 01:08:47,340 the answer right away either, but the words you say to those people is me too, because 1033 01:08:47,340 --> 01:08:52,740 if you're honest with yourself, you've dealt with some things in your life where you can 1034 01:08:52,740 --> 01:08:56,980 relate to a mentally ill person, even if it's not mentally illness on your side. 1035 01:08:56,980 --> 01:08:57,980 Yeah, absolutely. 1036 01:08:57,980 --> 01:09:03,460 And that's something that's come up over and over and over again is if, if we're the ones 1037 01:09:03,460 --> 01:09:08,460 doing okay, you know, and, and we want to create an environment where we allow each 1038 01:09:08,460 --> 01:09:12,740 other to be able to speak out, you can't just go, are you all right? 1039 01:09:12,740 --> 01:09:13,740 Yeah. 1040 01:09:13,740 --> 01:09:14,740 All right, good. 1041 01:09:14,740 --> 01:09:17,420 You know, you have to open the door and then, and then be vulnerable. 1042 01:09:17,420 --> 01:09:20,940 And that's what's so great with people like you that are out there telling your story 1043 01:09:20,940 --> 01:09:26,580 is, you know, again, if we can start with saying, I can think of a call that I've talked 1044 01:09:26,580 --> 01:09:33,260 about a few times on this of a three-year-old that was decapitated in a, in a car accident, 1045 01:09:33,260 --> 01:09:38,400 you know, and I've had that flash before me, you know, once before in the middle of a theme 1046 01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:41,960 park, completely different, but a kid was actually wearing the same things. 1047 01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,340 But yeah, I mean, we all have those me too things. 1048 01:09:44,340 --> 01:09:50,180 And if we want our men and women to be able to reach out, start with an anecdote of a 1049 01:09:50,180 --> 01:09:54,300 time that you've struggled that immediately will open the door and make people realize 1050 01:09:54,300 --> 01:09:55,460 I'm not being weak. 1051 01:09:55,460 --> 01:09:59,060 And then as everyone else chimes in with their stories, you're all going to realize that 1052 01:09:59,060 --> 01:10:01,980 every single one of you has gone through this at some point. 1053 01:10:01,980 --> 01:10:06,580 Well, you know, when I do my public speaking and that I tell my story, but then I have 1054 01:10:06,580 --> 01:10:12,980 to tell people what I do to keep my balance today. 1055 01:10:12,980 --> 01:10:17,940 Knowing that I struggle with, you know, depression, anxiety, OCD and all these things. 1056 01:10:17,940 --> 01:10:24,100 What keeps me obviously the first one I do take medication. 1057 01:10:24,100 --> 01:10:27,220 I I've learned meditation. 1058 01:10:27,220 --> 01:10:29,420 I work out. 1059 01:10:29,420 --> 01:10:36,420 If I'm, if I'm, if I'm going to spiral downward, I have to be in tune with myself to know that 1060 01:10:36,420 --> 01:10:39,220 I'm going down like I did about a year ago. 1061 01:10:39,220 --> 01:10:42,340 And I went, okay, I'm going to check this EMDR out. 1062 01:10:42,340 --> 01:10:45,860 And the biggest thing, and I think you could probably relate to this James is, is being 1063 01:10:45,860 --> 01:10:52,740 a service, uh, being, being vulnerable, uh, being compassionate, empathetic, whatever 1064 01:10:52,740 --> 01:10:54,260 you can be for people. 1065 01:10:54,260 --> 01:11:01,620 And, and like you doing this podcast is being a service and it probably, you know, as much 1066 01:11:01,620 --> 01:11:06,900 as it probably helps people to hear these talks, it helps you too, to know that you're, 1067 01:11:06,900 --> 01:11:13,280 you're, you went through things and now let's use those things in a positive way. 1068 01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:19,620 Now you've come out the, out of the darkness and you're functioning better than you were 1069 01:11:19,620 --> 01:11:20,620 or whatever it might be. 1070 01:11:20,620 --> 01:11:22,900 I'm kind of speaking for me. 1071 01:11:22,900 --> 01:11:28,780 Um, you know, I always say God spared me for those that are still suffering. 1072 01:11:28,780 --> 01:11:33,100 And that's why you, that's why I wrote the book was to help people. 1073 01:11:33,100 --> 01:11:36,660 And you know, what's remarkable, I knew it helped, you know, touch some people here and 1074 01:11:36,660 --> 01:11:44,180 there, the emails and the feedback that I've gotten, um, and, and still the book's been 1075 01:11:44,180 --> 01:11:50,800 out four or five years and I still get emails and, and messages and that I never realized 1076 01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:53,160 how many Clint Mallard trucks are out there. 1077 01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:55,860 There is so many people that struggle. 1078 01:11:55,860 --> 01:12:00,860 So many people and they're doing it in darkness and silence and people like you and me are 1079 01:12:00,860 --> 01:12:03,140 trying to, you know, say, Hey, it's okay. 1080 01:12:03,140 --> 01:12:04,400 Let's, let's talk about it. 1081 01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:05,400 Let's get it out there. 1082 01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:06,400 Let's get some help. 1083 01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:07,400 Yeah, exactly. 1084 01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:12,300 And like you said, me too, sadly, that phrase kind of got ruined a little bit when, when 1085 01:12:12,300 --> 01:12:13,740 Hollywood ran with it. 1086 01:12:13,740 --> 01:12:17,100 But um, you know, and there were reasons for that, but that's exactly it. 1087 01:12:17,100 --> 01:12:21,820 I think me too is the human experience and, and, you know, your book and Buck's book and 1088 01:12:21,820 --> 01:12:25,820 you know, all these other books and these people doing these talks and these documentaries 1089 01:12:25,820 --> 01:12:33,140 are slowly building this huge library of respected men and women that are saying, this is not 1090 01:12:33,140 --> 01:12:34,140 abnormal. 1091 01:12:34,140 --> 01:12:39,860 Like this is the human experience and some of us may have this for two weeks after someone 1092 01:12:39,860 --> 01:12:43,700 that you thought was going to be your husband or your wife dumped you or you lost, you know, 1093 01:12:43,700 --> 01:12:49,740 a partner or a child or there's just so many faces to this trauma and some obviously are 1094 01:12:49,740 --> 01:12:55,020 extreme, some, um, a minor, some you can treat with, with counseling, some you need medication 1095 01:12:55,020 --> 01:13:01,620 for, but to feel alone and to feel like you're weak, those are the things that we need to, 1096 01:13:01,620 --> 01:13:04,220 to get rid of because both of those complete fallacies. 1097 01:13:04,220 --> 01:13:05,220 Yeah. 1098 01:13:05,220 --> 01:13:12,220 There's a phrase, uh, sick, not weak, you know, and just like any, I mean, and that 1099 01:13:12,220 --> 01:13:17,700 goes back to though, if you're say, uh, sick with, let's say you got a broken arm or everybody 1100 01:13:17,700 --> 01:13:20,140 can go, Oh my God, I know that hurts. 1101 01:13:20,140 --> 01:13:21,260 Oh gee. 1102 01:13:21,260 --> 01:13:26,220 But not everybody can see, uh, and, and, and understand the mental illness cause it's such 1103 01:13:26,220 --> 01:13:32,820 a silent, uh, uh, and we hide it so well because, because of the stigma, we don't want people 1104 01:13:32,820 --> 01:13:38,140 to know that we're struggling in any way because of the stigma that it's a weakness and it's 1105 01:13:38,140 --> 01:13:40,420 not no, not at all. 1106 01:13:40,420 --> 01:13:46,060 And it's, it's so great to see over and over and over again, the most, one of the most 1107 01:13:46,060 --> 01:13:49,860 healing factors is always just like you said, be able to give back. 1108 01:13:49,860 --> 01:13:51,600 These people go through these dark places. 1109 01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:56,780 They find themselves at a point where they can write a book, they can start speaking 1110 01:13:56,780 --> 01:13:59,920 and then they wake up every day with a purpose now. 1111 01:13:59,920 --> 01:14:04,840 And so even though, like you said, they're out there helping people that, that process 1112 01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:06,220 is absolutely helping. 1113 01:14:06,220 --> 01:14:08,740 And you're absolutely right with me in this podcast. 1114 01:14:08,740 --> 01:14:13,940 Like I, I get to talk to people like you, you know, two, three times a week. 1115 01:14:13,940 --> 01:14:20,100 So I'm constantly getting counseling as well as being able to put this, this podcast out. 1116 01:14:20,100 --> 01:14:21,100 Well said. 1117 01:14:21,100 --> 01:14:28,100 You said we are our, we are our own best counselors in unity, the unity that we, you know, doing 1118 01:14:28,100 --> 01:14:32,220 this conversation and that, I mean, you don't think I'm going to feel better about it. 1119 01:14:32,220 --> 01:14:33,220 Hell yeah. 1120 01:14:33,220 --> 01:14:34,220 I'm going to feel real good about this. 1121 01:14:34,220 --> 01:14:35,700 And I know you are too. 1122 01:14:35,700 --> 01:14:36,700 Yeah. 1123 01:14:36,700 --> 01:14:45,180 A lot of times, you know, when I say being of service is my greatest healer now, as, 1124 01:14:45,180 --> 01:14:51,620 as much a toll that it can take on me at times, uh, hearing people's stories and, and, and, 1125 01:14:51,620 --> 01:14:53,420 you know, I don't really try to give advice. 1126 01:14:53,420 --> 01:14:55,700 I just try to give support. 1127 01:14:55,700 --> 01:14:59,300 And then like I say, yeah, I know what that feels like me too, you know? 1128 01:14:59,300 --> 01:15:04,140 Um, but a lot of people get intimidated by that being a service because they got three 1129 01:15:04,140 --> 01:15:07,060 kids, four dogs, the kids are playing sports. 1130 01:15:07,060 --> 01:15:11,700 They got school for the kids, their job, you know, and I have no time to join the rotary 1131 01:15:11,700 --> 01:15:19,460 club or, or, or the, uh, you know, the community charity or whatever. 1132 01:15:19,460 --> 01:15:25,580 No, no, being a service is, is starts with opening the door for someone being, being 1133 01:15:25,580 --> 01:15:30,060 smile when you really don't feel like you might want to smile, but you know, uh, being 1134 01:15:30,060 --> 01:15:34,700 try to be cheerful when you, you know, because it pulls you out of yourself and into other 1135 01:15:34,700 --> 01:15:38,380 people and, and you don't know what it does for those people. 1136 01:15:38,380 --> 01:15:39,420 Everybody's fighting a battle. 1137 01:15:39,420 --> 01:15:41,420 You know, nothing about. 1138 01:15:41,420 --> 01:15:42,420 Absolutely. 1139 01:15:42,420 --> 01:15:43,420 Absolutely. 1140 01:15:43,420 --> 01:15:44,420 And it's just, it's kindness and compassion again. 1141 01:15:44,420 --> 01:15:45,420 I talk about this a lot. 1142 01:15:45,420 --> 01:15:51,460 We, we seem to have this society now where we expect the people in the houses of parliament 1143 01:15:51,460 --> 01:15:56,620 or the white house or the Kremlin, you know, wherever you are on planet earth to fix your 1144 01:15:56,620 --> 01:15:57,820 country. 1145 01:15:57,820 --> 01:15:59,460 And that's completely backwards. 1146 01:15:59,460 --> 01:16:03,060 You walk outside your front door and you find someone that you can help that day. 1147 01:16:03,060 --> 01:16:06,060 And then if we all do that, my God, this place is going to change. 1148 01:16:06,060 --> 01:16:07,060 Really? 1149 01:16:07,060 --> 01:16:08,700 And I call it baby steps. 1150 01:16:08,700 --> 01:16:13,980 I mean, like you said, walk out the front door, you know, and be grateful, you know, 1151 01:16:13,980 --> 01:16:19,620 um, you know, I, I was going through a tough time in the last couple of days, just, I was 1152 01:16:19,620 --> 01:16:25,540 hit, hit one of those down and I got this guy that I, I became friends with, uh, through 1153 01:16:25,540 --> 01:16:31,380 AA and he's got one leg, uh, and, and half a foot on the other side. 1154 01:16:31,380 --> 01:16:32,380 And you know what? 1155 01:16:32,380 --> 01:16:38,660 I, I said, Clint, why are you, you know, I'm grateful that I'm not in his. 1156 01:16:38,660 --> 01:16:40,820 Wheelchair, you know? 1157 01:16:40,820 --> 01:16:45,060 Uh, so to be grateful, I think is a great, is a good thing too. 1158 01:16:45,060 --> 01:16:48,060 Um, you know, it could always be worse, right? 1159 01:16:48,060 --> 01:16:54,740 You know, um, there's some people that are, they're, they're beginning their journey through 1160 01:16:54,740 --> 01:16:58,620 the darkness that I've been through. 1161 01:16:58,620 --> 01:17:02,900 So I want to be there for them, you know, and, and say, you know what? 1162 01:17:02,900 --> 01:17:06,340 There's light, there's light at the end of the tunnel and you can be happy and productive 1163 01:17:06,340 --> 01:17:11,420 and you know, functioning, you just going through a bad time. 1164 01:17:11,420 --> 01:17:12,420 Yeah. 1165 01:17:12,420 --> 01:17:17,300 And I think gratitude is a very undervalued, um, you know, thought process for lack of 1166 01:17:17,300 --> 01:17:21,980 a better word, because as you mentioned, you know, a hundred years ago, we were trying 1167 01:17:21,980 --> 01:17:27,660 to make sure we had, you know, fire for warmth and food for, for our children. 1168 01:17:27,660 --> 01:17:34,660 And we do have this, this kind of different pull now where all our devices are telling 1169 01:17:34,660 --> 01:17:38,940 us we need bigger houses, bigger cars, you know, more stuff, fancier clothes. 1170 01:17:38,940 --> 01:17:43,540 Um, you know, and we're losing sight of the facts of what we do have, you know, we're 1171 01:17:43,540 --> 01:17:44,940 being told what we don't have. 1172 01:17:44,940 --> 01:17:47,060 And that's the totally wrong way of looking at it. 1173 01:17:47,060 --> 01:17:50,540 When you wake up in the morning, you're like, well, I wake up in a country that's not a 1174 01:17:50,540 --> 01:17:51,540 war at the moment. 1175 01:17:51,540 --> 01:17:54,980 And there's food in my fridge and a roof over my children's head. 1176 01:17:54,980 --> 01:17:58,660 You know, I mean, that's, there's so many things to be grateful for, but it's, it's 1177 01:17:58,660 --> 01:17:59,780 taken for granted. 1178 01:17:59,780 --> 01:18:00,780 We do. 1179 01:18:00,780 --> 01:18:01,780 And it, and it takes a deliberate thing. 1180 01:18:01,780 --> 01:18:05,700 I'm not saying I wake up like, you know, a Disney movie and to start dancing around the 1181 01:18:05,700 --> 01:18:10,940 house, but, but, you know, we, we need to take that moment to go. 1182 01:18:10,940 --> 01:18:15,960 I'm so thankful for X, Y, and Z. And if you start your day with that every day, that definitely 1183 01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:17,700 helps your mental health too. 1184 01:18:17,700 --> 01:18:18,700 Yeah. 1185 01:18:18,700 --> 01:18:21,180 I got a, I got an uncle, he's 95. 1186 01:18:21,180 --> 01:18:29,140 He, uh, he flew bombers, uh, in world war two and he was shot down twice. 1187 01:18:29,140 --> 01:18:35,980 And when he came home, um, you know, in these small towns at noon and at six o'clock, the, 1188 01:18:35,980 --> 01:18:39,980 uh, the firehouse, uh, will sound the siren. 1189 01:18:39,980 --> 01:18:42,860 Uh, they do that in small towns even today. 1190 01:18:42,860 --> 01:18:47,820 I don't know why, I guess it's just telling them it's 12 o'clock or six o'clock, but, 1191 01:18:47,820 --> 01:18:54,220 I guess when he came back, he would be under the table shaking, uh, because it was that 1192 01:18:54,220 --> 01:18:57,620 siren that, uh, like a air raid. 1193 01:18:57,620 --> 01:19:03,780 And uh, you know what, he never talked about the war or anything until about 10, 12 years 1194 01:19:03,780 --> 01:19:04,780 ago. 1195 01:19:04,780 --> 01:19:10,220 Uh, he just kept it inside and a great man and he's had a really good life and everything. 1196 01:19:10,220 --> 01:19:13,300 I'm not even sure what I'm telling, why I'm telling that story. 1197 01:19:13,300 --> 01:19:19,220 I think it's about gratitude that this man, uh, uh, went to war, uh, shot down twice, 1198 01:19:19,220 --> 01:19:26,780 once behind enemy lines, uh, you know, crash landed and what he went through with his PTSD 1199 01:19:26,780 --> 01:19:28,620 and, and all those things. 1200 01:19:28,620 --> 01:19:33,780 I mean, I'm so grateful for our, uh, you know, our freedom and the people that gave it to 1201 01:19:33,780 --> 01:19:34,780 us. 1202 01:19:34,780 --> 01:19:40,300 I mean, I'm not sure what kind of life he had, you know, mentally, cause he didn't talk 1203 01:19:40,300 --> 01:19:47,500 about it, but, uh, you know, I'm just grateful that he, he, he went through that and I didn't. 1204 01:19:47,500 --> 01:19:48,500 Yeah. 1205 01:19:48,500 --> 01:19:50,340 And we get to reap the rewards. 1206 01:19:50,340 --> 01:19:55,140 There's a gentleman I've just been told about who lives locally here, who was one of the 1207 01:19:55,140 --> 01:19:59,980 sailors on one of the ships that was bombed at Pearl Harbor and he actually survived. 1208 01:19:59,980 --> 01:20:03,620 Basically his entire ship pretty much died and he was one of the survivors in the shark 1209 01:20:03,620 --> 01:20:05,220 ridden wars. 1210 01:20:05,220 --> 01:20:09,100 I'm hoping I'm going to be able to sit down with him, but yeah, that sadly that's the 1211 01:20:09,100 --> 01:20:15,300 thing is that you don't often hear stories of those men, you know, and then I talk about 1212 01:20:15,300 --> 01:20:18,260 this frequently, you know, you watch band of brothers. 1213 01:20:18,260 --> 01:20:24,740 Have you ever seen that, that, um, show and the real men of the 101st are talking at the 1214 01:20:24,740 --> 01:20:29,660 end of each episode and it's so sad now cause we've just, we've got no one else to storytell 1215 01:20:29,660 --> 01:20:35,220 anymore and that's such an important generation that gave so much for us to have this life. 1216 01:20:35,220 --> 01:20:39,660 And if we're not grateful, you know, we, people you say thank you for your service. 1217 01:20:39,660 --> 01:20:40,660 It's almost like lip service. 1218 01:20:40,660 --> 01:20:42,700 It's like, but are you really grateful? 1219 01:20:42,700 --> 01:20:46,520 You know, what are you doing to make the world better in memorial of all those people that 1220 01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:48,220 lay down their lives for you? 1221 01:20:48,220 --> 01:20:50,580 Um, but what, two things I want to talk about. 1222 01:20:50,580 --> 01:20:52,980 Firstly, we were just talking about gratitude. 1223 01:20:52,980 --> 01:20:56,620 One thing that struck me in it and I wanted to make sure that we talked about this is 1224 01:20:56,620 --> 01:21:04,700 after you went back on the ice, after your injury, you talk about fans behind the goal 1225 01:21:04,700 --> 01:21:09,660 line, you know, doing the, the throat cutting motion and then, and then later when, you 1226 01:21:09,660 --> 01:21:14,060 know, when you made it public that you were having a mental health battle, the people 1227 01:21:14,060 --> 01:21:18,980 were making all the crazy pills, uh, comments and things. 1228 01:21:18,980 --> 01:21:27,900 And for you, why do you think it is that there can be so much cruelty when it comes to sports? 1229 01:21:27,900 --> 01:21:31,900 Cause I, coming from England, I remember, you know, multiple times if there was a black 1230 01:21:31,900 --> 01:21:35,460 player they'd start throwing bananas on the pitch and that kind of thing. 1231 01:21:35,460 --> 01:21:40,340 And I never understood that, you know, this is a game that you're supposed to enjoy just 1232 01:21:40,340 --> 01:21:41,740 watching. 1233 01:21:41,740 --> 01:21:45,540 Having been through that not only as an athlete, but then as a coach, what's your perception 1234 01:21:45,540 --> 01:21:49,700 on that and then now the same thing we can apply to the social media trolling as well. 1235 01:21:49,700 --> 01:21:56,540 Well, I think first of all, the people that do that are probably the most insecure. 1236 01:21:56,540 --> 01:22:04,700 And you know, we talk about bullying and society today with kids and the internet and all that. 1237 01:22:04,700 --> 01:22:11,780 I always feel really bad for the kid that's being bullied, but I also think, man, why is 1238 01:22:11,780 --> 01:22:13,820 a bully a bully? 1239 01:22:13,820 --> 01:22:19,380 You know, and I think it's, you know, insecurities, uh, things that are going on in his home. 1240 01:22:19,380 --> 01:22:25,720 Maybe, uh, maybe he's being abused by his father, you know, cut down, uh, ridiculed. 1241 01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:33,500 So I think it's somewhat of a learned behavior, but I think it's also just, uh, uh, something 1242 01:22:33,500 --> 01:22:37,900 makes people feel better about themselves if they can knock somebody down because they 1243 01:22:37,900 --> 01:22:40,820 inside are very, very insecure. 1244 01:22:40,820 --> 01:22:42,580 Yeah, I agree. 1245 01:22:42,580 --> 01:22:44,580 I really do. 1246 01:22:44,580 --> 01:22:45,580 And that's sad. 1247 01:22:45,580 --> 01:22:46,580 And that's sad. 1248 01:22:46,580 --> 01:22:50,980 I mean, I mean, I think we all can, uh, you, I've met some people that I thought were super 1249 01:22:50,980 --> 01:22:55,380 confident and then once you get to know them, you start talking about things and they go 1250 01:22:55,380 --> 01:22:57,260 Clint, I thought you were the most confident. 1251 01:22:57,260 --> 01:23:00,780 I go, well, I thought you, you're shit together. 1252 01:23:00,780 --> 01:23:02,340 You know what I mean? 1253 01:23:02,340 --> 01:23:08,100 And uh, I think, I think it's something people just struggle, uh, with, you know, within 1254 01:23:08,100 --> 01:23:09,100 themselves. 1255 01:23:09,100 --> 01:23:10,100 Yeah. 1256 01:23:10,100 --> 01:23:16,980 And, and I think it, it, when they can do public display or internet bullying or whatever, 1257 01:23:16,980 --> 01:23:20,660 it somehow, uh, makes them feel better about themselves. 1258 01:23:20,660 --> 01:23:23,180 And that's very, very sad, I think. 1259 01:23:23,180 --> 01:23:27,300 Yeah, no, I do as well, but that, that phrase hurt people, hurt people. 1260 01:23:27,300 --> 01:23:31,960 I think there's a lot to that and you know, most bullies are, are, you know, compensating. 1261 01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:37,220 We have all these different ways of filling that void, whether it's drugs, alcohol, porn. 1262 01:23:37,220 --> 01:23:41,260 I think that the bullying is another one that you've, you've got some, some part of your 1263 01:23:41,260 --> 01:23:45,420 soul missing and being cruel is what you've chosen to do. 1264 01:23:45,420 --> 01:23:48,660 I think it's a very poor choice, but it's something that you see a lot. 1265 01:23:48,660 --> 01:23:49,660 Yeah. 1266 01:23:49,660 --> 01:23:52,380 And I don't think it's a conscious choice for them. 1267 01:23:52,380 --> 01:23:57,380 I just think they do it, uh, because it's, it's like anything that makes them feel better 1268 01:23:57,380 --> 01:23:58,380 about themselves. 1269 01:23:58,380 --> 01:23:59,380 Yeah. 1270 01:23:59,380 --> 01:24:00,380 Brilliant. 1271 01:24:00,380 --> 01:24:01,380 Well, thank you for that perspective. 1272 01:24:01,380 --> 01:24:05,700 Now, I want to touch on one more thing before we, we go to the closing questions. 1273 01:24:05,700 --> 01:24:10,100 The only one we haven't spoken to who has been on your side through this whole journey 1274 01:24:10,100 --> 01:24:12,100 is Joni. 1275 01:24:12,100 --> 01:24:20,740 So, um, from her perspective, what, what is it that made her stay, stay with you? 1276 01:24:20,740 --> 01:24:25,340 You know, what, what kind of, uh, uh, what's the best way I put it? 1277 01:24:25,340 --> 01:24:32,340 You know, I could, I know what you're asking and I, I just think that, uh, you know, I'm, 1278 01:24:32,340 --> 01:24:35,500 I'm, I'll be just honest with you. 1279 01:24:35,500 --> 01:24:37,860 I'm a really, really good person. 1280 01:24:37,860 --> 01:24:39,820 I give the shirt off my back. 1281 01:24:39,820 --> 01:24:45,620 Um, when they put me in the state mental hospital for a three day lockdown, I was asking Joni 1282 01:24:45,620 --> 01:24:47,860 to come up and bring all my tracksuits up. 1283 01:24:47,860 --> 01:24:49,340 And she goes to be there for three days. 1284 01:24:49,340 --> 01:24:54,740 They keep asking me to bring clothes, uh, because I found out in that state mental hospital, 1285 01:24:54,740 --> 01:24:59,940 most of the people were on a 72 hour hold like me, but they were schizophrenic and they 1286 01:24:59,940 --> 01:25:01,480 were homeless. 1287 01:25:01,480 --> 01:25:06,100 So I was getting all these NHL tracksuits that you accumulate over the years. 1288 01:25:06,100 --> 01:25:08,380 You just get them all the time. 1289 01:25:08,380 --> 01:25:13,900 And so my point being is I am a very good person and I literally will give you the shirt 1290 01:25:13,900 --> 01:25:15,900 off my back. 1291 01:25:15,900 --> 01:25:23,220 Um, uh, and I, to answer your question, she saw that side of me too. 1292 01:25:23,220 --> 01:25:28,720 She knows that, uh, you know, like I talked about my friend the other day that he has 1293 01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:29,820 no way to get around. 1294 01:25:29,820 --> 01:25:34,700 So yesterday I took him shopping and to Walmart and you know, cause he's in a wheelchair and 1295 01:25:34,700 --> 01:25:35,700 he needs help. 1296 01:25:35,700 --> 01:25:41,820 And, uh, she sees that in me, but she also saw the sick and dark side. 1297 01:25:41,820 --> 01:25:48,580 And uh, I guess she just always knew that there was, you know, probably that, that illness, 1298 01:25:48,580 --> 01:25:50,900 uh, was nothing but an illness. 1299 01:25:50,900 --> 01:25:54,980 And I, and her, her, her parents were very intelligent and they told her, so you know 1300 01:25:54,980 --> 01:25:56,700 what Clint is sick. 1301 01:25:56,700 --> 01:26:01,420 He is really got to get some help and, um, he's a good guy. 1302 01:26:01,420 --> 01:26:06,340 And you know, I was like a son to my, my father-in-law, you know, he never had a boy. 1303 01:26:06,340 --> 01:26:12,420 So they knew there was a good side to me and Joni obviously, uh, had their support, uh, 1304 01:26:12,420 --> 01:26:15,860 which was, you know, crucial because I was, I was abusive. 1305 01:26:15,860 --> 01:26:19,180 I was verbally abusive to her because that's what we do. 1306 01:26:19,180 --> 01:26:22,180 You know, he got all that anger and who do you take? 1307 01:26:22,180 --> 01:26:26,940 The things I said to her, if I said it to my best friend, he punched me in the nose. 1308 01:26:26,940 --> 01:26:33,820 You know, so we, you know, we always take it out on the, the ones closest to us, I guess. 1309 01:26:33,820 --> 01:26:36,740 Um, yeah, she deserves a lot of credit for sure. 1310 01:26:36,740 --> 01:26:43,380 I mean, she went through hell, uh, with me and I'm just trying to answer your question. 1311 01:26:43,380 --> 01:26:45,740 She also saw the real compassionate side. 1312 01:26:45,740 --> 01:26:50,700 I mean, I do a lot of charity, you know, I'm a good person and I'm not, uh, ashamed to 1313 01:26:50,700 --> 01:26:57,300 say that because I've also been a bad person, uh, with my illness. 1314 01:26:57,300 --> 01:27:00,220 So you know, I'm just honest and that's what I like. 1315 01:27:00,220 --> 01:27:06,220 Uh, my book was described as very raw and I like, wow, at first I was like, I don't 1316 01:27:06,220 --> 01:27:10,900 know if that's a compliment or, and then I thought, you know what? 1317 01:27:10,900 --> 01:27:18,180 And a week before the book came out, uh, uh, on the marketplace, I remember talking to 1318 01:27:18,180 --> 01:27:24,460 the ghostwriter, the co-writer that, you know, writ, wrote the book with me and I'm, I'm 1319 01:27:24,460 --> 01:27:28,700 standing out in my barn and I just started to cry. 1320 01:27:28,700 --> 01:27:32,780 And I mean, I cried like a baby, you know, so scared. 1321 01:27:32,780 --> 01:27:35,260 And uh, he says, no Clint, this is going to be great. 1322 01:27:35,260 --> 01:27:37,420 It's coming out next week and we're excited. 1323 01:27:37,420 --> 01:27:43,780 And I was like, just, I told way too much because I did. 1324 01:27:43,780 --> 01:27:49,740 I mean, I, I, I'm glad I did now, but I was petrified at the, at the thought that, you 1325 01:27:49,740 --> 01:27:50,740 know what? 1326 01:27:50,740 --> 01:27:56,780 I've, I've said everything about my deep, because darkest demons, my insecurities, my, 1327 01:27:56,780 --> 01:28:00,660 uh, um, all those things, you know, my failed marriages. 1328 01:28:00,660 --> 01:28:07,020 Um, I mean, I, I, I told everything and I'm glad I have, I was so scared a week before 1329 01:28:07,020 --> 01:28:11,140 it came out, but now I'm, I'm so it's, it was the hardest thing I've ever done, but 1330 01:28:11,140 --> 01:28:14,540 the, the greatest thing I've ever done too. 1331 01:28:14,540 --> 01:28:15,540 Yeah. 1332 01:28:15,540 --> 01:28:20,340 Well, and then the reason I asked that question about, um, Joni, I had another guest, Chris 1333 01:28:20,340 --> 01:28:26,820 Fields and Chris was the firefighter in the very tragically iconic, uh, picture from the 1334 01:28:26,820 --> 01:28:27,900 Oklahoma bombing. 1335 01:28:27,900 --> 01:28:30,100 So he was the one holding the dead baby. 1336 01:28:30,100 --> 01:28:35,700 Um, and so when you talked about the, uh, Richard Zednik getting his throat cut in 2008 1337 01:28:35,700 --> 01:28:40,300 and then everything, you know, being dragged back up again, he had the same thing on anniversaries. 1338 01:28:40,300 --> 01:28:45,780 You know, the picture was always front and center and, um, but his wife, Cheryl, despite, 1339 01:28:45,780 --> 01:28:50,460 you know, Chris talks about on the, on the podcast about infidelity and, and, uh, alcohol 1340 01:28:50,460 --> 01:28:52,580 and everything and she's stuck by him. 1341 01:28:52,580 --> 01:28:55,340 So it wasn't like a question like, well, why does she stay with you? 1342 01:28:55,340 --> 01:28:57,080 You know, as in she should have left. 1343 01:28:57,080 --> 01:29:03,860 It was showing that in these relationships, when the man or the woman is going through 1344 01:29:03,860 --> 01:29:08,940 a mental health struggle and it may manifest in, in violence or, um, obviously violence 1345 01:29:08,940 --> 01:29:15,620 is a trickier one, but, or, or alcoholism or drug abuse that rather than going, this 1346 01:29:15,620 --> 01:29:18,740 person's a piece of shit, I need to leave. 1347 01:29:18,740 --> 01:29:22,180 Understanding, like you said, that there might be an illness there. 1348 01:29:22,180 --> 01:29:26,620 And if you can find the right avenues that you can save your marriage, you can be more 1349 01:29:26,620 --> 01:29:28,340 resilient after. 1350 01:29:28,340 --> 01:29:32,900 And I love it when I hear of a marriage like that, when the man or the woman has stood 1351 01:29:32,900 --> 01:29:37,420 by their partner, knowing that they're fighting a battle and they've come out the other end. 1352 01:29:37,420 --> 01:29:43,060 Yeah, I, and it, it, it, there's, there's so many different things that can go into 1353 01:29:43,060 --> 01:29:44,060 that question. 1354 01:29:44,060 --> 01:29:50,420 Like what makes a person like Joni stay with, with me when I was at my craziest. 1355 01:29:50,420 --> 01:29:57,420 Um, you know, and, and what's interesting is she had, she grew up in the, you know, 1356 01:29:57,420 --> 01:30:04,140 date myself, the Beaver Cleaver household, you know, perfect mom, perfect dad, um, all 1357 01:30:04,140 --> 01:30:05,140 American. 1358 01:30:05,140 --> 01:30:08,420 She had a military family, so they did move a lot. 1359 01:30:08,420 --> 01:30:14,620 Um, but, uh, just, I don't know, something in her life, maybe it was the moving, making 1360 01:30:14,620 --> 01:30:22,940 new friends, leaving other friends, you know, that influenced her, uh, personality to stay 1361 01:30:22,940 --> 01:30:24,580 with somebody like me. 1362 01:30:24,580 --> 01:30:25,740 I don't know. 1363 01:30:25,740 --> 01:30:33,100 And, uh, she had her family, like I said, no alcohol, drugs, no, um, abuse, no, you 1364 01:30:33,100 --> 01:30:34,100 know. 1365 01:30:34,100 --> 01:30:39,580 And so it's kind of weird that, you know, she somehow understood what I was going through. 1366 01:30:39,580 --> 01:30:40,580 Yeah. 1367 01:30:40,580 --> 01:30:41,580 No, it's amazing. 1368 01:30:41,580 --> 01:30:44,940 But I think again, that that's, that's something that needs to be put out there. 1369 01:30:44,940 --> 01:30:50,020 I mean, I've talked about, um, you know, our, our drug policy at the moment, we take addicts 1370 01:30:50,020 --> 01:30:51,540 and we lock them away. 1371 01:30:51,540 --> 01:30:56,380 And I've had people on the show from other countries where they've changed that policy, 1372 01:30:56,380 --> 01:31:01,020 where they realized that addiction is a mental health issue and they take those people and 1373 01:31:01,020 --> 01:31:05,620 their patients, not criminals, and they, they filter them through, you know, addiction programs 1374 01:31:05,620 --> 01:31:08,420 and counseling and job creation. 1375 01:31:08,420 --> 01:31:13,640 And you know, these conversations are so great because I think we're starting to change the 1376 01:31:13,640 --> 01:31:14,900 stigma on that too. 1377 01:31:14,900 --> 01:31:17,860 I mean, the, at the drug addiction is a public, oh, that's illegal. 1378 01:31:17,860 --> 01:31:22,100 Therefore you go to jail and then you have the elephant in the room, which is the alcoholism, 1379 01:31:22,100 --> 01:31:25,580 which I think is a, you know, a much greater problem. 1380 01:31:25,580 --> 01:31:29,560 Um, but you know, if we're not addressing the mental health underneath and we're just 1381 01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:35,260 having a quote unquote war on drugs or whatever it is, we're never going to, uh, change the 1382 01:31:35,260 --> 01:31:40,060 underlying factor, which is we have a huge amount of mental illness in this country and 1383 01:31:40,060 --> 01:31:41,540 it needs to be addressed. 1384 01:31:41,540 --> 01:31:46,380 Well, you know, the other thing too, you know, a lot of people have gone through stages in 1385 01:31:46,380 --> 01:31:47,380 their life. 1386 01:31:47,380 --> 01:31:52,180 You know, they, they go to college and, uh, they experiment with drugs and drink beer 1387 01:31:52,180 --> 01:31:54,740 and do this and that, and then they grow out of it. 1388 01:31:54,740 --> 01:31:59,120 They, you know, they do that for a year or two, whatever, as part of college life maybe. 1389 01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:00,120 And that's what people think. 1390 01:32:00,120 --> 01:32:01,120 Well, you know what? 1391 01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:03,060 I went through that, I quit and I stopped. 1392 01:32:03,060 --> 01:32:10,620 It's, it's the people like, uh, well, like me that used alcohol, um, as my medication. 1393 01:32:10,620 --> 01:32:13,060 It, it, I wasn't out partying. 1394 01:32:13,060 --> 01:32:18,860 I mean, I was, I was drinking in my barn home alone in my barn, you know? 1395 01:32:18,860 --> 01:32:21,140 Um, so I'm not partying. 1396 01:32:21,140 --> 01:32:25,900 I'm doing it for the effect of, of relief from whatever I'm going through, whether it 1397 01:32:25,900 --> 01:32:33,540 was the depression or anxiety or panic or OCD, you know, and that is definitely mental 1398 01:32:33,540 --> 01:32:34,540 illness. 1399 01:32:34,540 --> 01:32:36,900 I'm self medicating to feel good. 1400 01:32:36,900 --> 01:32:42,700 I mean, and when you really think about it, uh, people that do get into drugs or alcohol, 1401 01:32:42,700 --> 01:32:48,300 I use alcohol because as my example, cause it was my choice of, of poison. 1402 01:32:48,300 --> 01:32:52,220 Um, you're, you're feeling, let's say James, you're feeling like crap. 1403 01:32:52,220 --> 01:32:57,340 You're feeling depressed or really anxious or, you know, choose whatever you want. 1404 01:32:57,340 --> 01:33:01,740 And you got an empty hand and you look at it and go, okay, this is what I'm going through. 1405 01:33:01,740 --> 01:33:07,660 And then you look at the other hand and you got a bottle of beer and you look at one hand, 1406 01:33:07,660 --> 01:33:11,140 another hand, go feel good, feel shitty, feel good, feel shitty, feel good. 1407 01:33:11,140 --> 01:33:12,220 I'm going to feel good. 1408 01:33:12,220 --> 01:33:13,220 And you'll drink. 1409 01:33:13,220 --> 01:33:16,960 I, that, that's my, my example of me. 1410 01:33:16,960 --> 01:33:22,540 You know, I used it to feel rather than feel shitty. 1411 01:33:22,540 --> 01:33:28,900 Again, whatever it was, I was going through, um, anxiety, depression, panic, OCD. 1412 01:33:28,900 --> 01:33:31,660 The beer was the stabilizer. 1413 01:33:31,660 --> 01:33:32,660 Yeah. 1414 01:33:32,660 --> 01:33:33,660 Yeah, exactly. 1415 01:33:33,660 --> 01:33:39,060 Well, I hope that, you know, as we break the stigma down on, on mental health, that we'll 1416 01:33:39,060 --> 01:33:42,780 realize that addiction is, you know, completely tied in with that. 1417 01:33:42,780 --> 01:33:46,940 Oh, it's, it's, it's so, it's so tied in with, uh, addiction. 1418 01:33:46,940 --> 01:33:49,940 You know, I don't think I would have became an alcoholic. 1419 01:33:49,940 --> 01:33:56,220 I mean, I got up to 25, 30 beers a day and I know you're from England and I'm from Canada, 1420 01:33:56,220 --> 01:33:58,620 but you know, so I'll just say that was American beer. 1421 01:33:58,620 --> 01:34:01,620 So it was like eight beers. 1422 01:34:01,620 --> 01:34:05,820 Um, and you know, that was just to get through a day. 1423 01:34:05,820 --> 01:34:08,140 I mean, I was just trying to get through a day. 1424 01:34:08,140 --> 01:34:10,100 I wasn't enjoying the day. 1425 01:34:10,100 --> 01:34:16,280 I was trying to just get through a day and you know, unfortunately then what started 1426 01:34:16,280 --> 01:34:22,100 off as two or four and then eight beers and then 12, you know, it just, the bar gets higher 1427 01:34:22,100 --> 01:34:29,460 because you, you just get, uh, uh, it just takes more and more of the beer to make me 1428 01:34:29,460 --> 01:34:32,260 feel where I'm, you know, doing okay. 1429 01:34:32,260 --> 01:34:33,260 Yeah. 1430 01:34:33,260 --> 01:34:38,740 And I found I'm not, I'm a very casual drinker, high frequency, low amount usually. 1431 01:34:38,740 --> 01:34:43,500 Um, but yeah, I'll, I'll notice that even that it'll creep in like, Oh, maybe I have 1432 01:34:43,500 --> 01:34:44,500 one with lunch. 1433 01:34:44,500 --> 01:34:47,380 And the moment I get that, I'm like, okay, no, no, no time to get back again. 1434 01:34:47,380 --> 01:34:54,420 Cause it is, it's a very, a very slippery drug and, and you know, it seems to want to multiply. 1435 01:34:54,420 --> 01:34:57,540 And like you said, and we all know that there's a tolerance side to it. 1436 01:34:57,540 --> 01:35:01,380 I mean, everyone knows that alcoholic that can put away a, you know, tie a bottle of 1437 01:35:01,380 --> 01:35:03,060 vodka and still function normally. 1438 01:35:03,060 --> 01:35:06,140 So it's a terrifying drug when you think about it. 1439 01:35:06,140 --> 01:35:07,540 Oh, it is. 1440 01:35:07,540 --> 01:35:11,620 And I've definitely been down that road and still have to address it. 1441 01:35:11,620 --> 01:35:14,660 Uh, you know, in my life today. 1442 01:35:14,660 --> 01:35:15,660 Brilliant. 1443 01:35:15,660 --> 01:35:17,180 Well, I just want to thank you so much. 1444 01:35:17,180 --> 01:35:19,260 I want to make sure that we highlight the book itself. 1445 01:35:19,260 --> 01:35:21,700 So your book is a matter of inches. 1446 01:35:21,700 --> 01:35:24,300 So where can people find that? 1447 01:35:24,300 --> 01:35:29,300 Uh, Amazon, probably some bookstores still might have it, you know, books, uh, they, 1448 01:35:29,300 --> 01:35:33,680 they last three, you know, two, two years on a shelf and then new books come out. 1449 01:35:33,680 --> 01:35:36,100 So probably Amazon is the best way. 1450 01:35:36,100 --> 01:35:40,500 Um, in Canada, it's actually a different title. 1451 01:35:40,500 --> 01:35:42,540 It's called the crazy game. 1452 01:35:42,540 --> 01:35:48,260 And originally it was a Canadian publisher, Harper Collins that did the book. 1453 01:35:48,260 --> 01:35:55,520 Uh, and then they, uh, had interest from the U S but the U S didn't like the word crazy. 1454 01:35:55,520 --> 01:36:00,980 And I didn't either at first, but, uh, anyways, they changed it to a matter of inches, which, 1455 01:36:00,980 --> 01:36:09,500 uh, to me sounds like a porn, but, um, yeah, that's, that was a wild, uh, you, you know, 1456 01:36:09,500 --> 01:36:14,580 you write a book, you think you got all control on title and whatever you do have some, but 1457 01:36:14,580 --> 01:36:17,220 they're very convincing on, on a lot of things. 1458 01:36:17,220 --> 01:36:18,220 Right. 1459 01:36:18,220 --> 01:36:19,220 Yeah. 1460 01:36:19,220 --> 01:36:20,220 It still works though. 1461 01:36:20,220 --> 01:36:21,700 I mean, I get the whole porn thing, of course. 1462 01:36:21,700 --> 01:36:26,860 And, you know, with the hockey mask, it could definitely be an S and M quality to it, but 1463 01:36:26,860 --> 01:36:28,780 no, it is, and it's just, it's such a great book. 1464 01:36:28,780 --> 01:36:33,900 And like you said, it is raw and it's very honest and that is what people need to connect 1465 01:36:33,900 --> 01:36:34,900 with. 1466 01:36:34,900 --> 01:36:36,960 And I literally binge read it in about three days. 1467 01:36:36,960 --> 01:36:42,820 So I highly recommend everyone listening to get that, um, on the subject of books, I always 1468 01:36:42,820 --> 01:36:46,700 love to ask as well, is there another book that you love to recommend that someone else 1469 01:36:46,700 --> 01:36:47,700 has written? 1470 01:36:47,700 --> 01:36:48,700 Well, yes. 1471 01:36:48,700 --> 01:36:53,580 And I mentioned it earlier, the untethered soul, Michael Singer. 1472 01:36:53,580 --> 01:36:57,500 Um, it, it, that book really, really spoke to me. 1473 01:36:57,500 --> 01:36:59,820 Um, you know, I've read the four agreements. 1474 01:36:59,820 --> 01:37:00,820 It's another good book. 1475 01:37:00,820 --> 01:37:06,940 Uh, it's a short read, but the matter, uh, the, the one, the, uh, untethered soul, uh, 1476 01:37:06,940 --> 01:37:10,780 it, it, it spoke to me and I've read it like 10 times. 1477 01:37:10,780 --> 01:37:11,780 I've highlighted it. 1478 01:37:11,780 --> 01:37:14,460 I've given it away and had to reread and highlight. 1479 01:37:14,460 --> 01:37:21,420 And yeah, it's some of, some of it's a little out there, but some of it is bang on, um, 1480 01:37:21,420 --> 01:37:24,900 you know, at least for me, we're, we're where I am. 1481 01:37:24,900 --> 01:37:29,380 Then, you know, it doesn't tell you how to meditate, but it tells you, uh, you know, 1482 01:37:29,380 --> 01:37:33,900 how the world is spinning so fast in front of us and we're not living in the moment. 1483 01:37:33,900 --> 01:37:38,460 It's more of a mindful mindfulness book to be in the moment. 1484 01:37:38,460 --> 01:37:39,460 Excellent. 1485 01:37:39,460 --> 01:37:40,460 All right. 1486 01:37:40,460 --> 01:37:43,020 Well, I will put that on the show notes along with all the other ones that we've talked 1487 01:37:43,020 --> 01:37:44,020 about. 1488 01:37:44,020 --> 01:37:47,980 Um, so the same question though, is there a movie that you love? 1489 01:37:47,980 --> 01:37:50,140 Oh, you know what? 1490 01:37:50,140 --> 01:37:55,180 Um, I, I love my, uh, military movies like American sniper. 1491 01:37:55,180 --> 01:37:57,660 I've seen that many, many times. 1492 01:37:57,660 --> 01:38:03,940 Um, there's a, another, uh, military book called 12 strong, uh, which is about the, 1493 01:38:03,940 --> 01:38:08,860 uh, the first people after nine 11 that went over and they ended up having to do most of 1494 01:38:08,860 --> 01:38:16,820 their, uh, they didn't know it at the time, but, uh, on horseback and working with, uh, 1495 01:38:16,820 --> 01:38:20,100 the good guys over there that were all on horseback. 1496 01:38:20,100 --> 01:38:25,380 And I can't, I can't help, but think, I wonder if I train some of those guys. 1497 01:38:25,380 --> 01:38:31,820 And I mentioned that I worked with the military, uh, when they're looking for, uh, Bin Laden. 1498 01:38:31,820 --> 01:38:35,940 And so I'm wondering, but you know, military is military and they don't tell you much. 1499 01:38:35,940 --> 01:38:38,660 So I'm wondering if I trained those guys. 1500 01:38:38,660 --> 01:38:43,340 Uh, yeah, I like, I like those, those two movies a lot, you know? 1501 01:38:43,340 --> 01:38:46,320 Well I've been working on getting one someone and I was killing me because I've been trying 1502 01:38:46,320 --> 01:38:47,860 to remember the last few weeks. 1503 01:38:47,860 --> 01:38:53,180 Someone told me that they knew one of those men and I actually had, when they made the 1504 01:38:53,180 --> 01:38:59,660 movie of it, I had a gentleman, Fahim Fasli, who is an Afghani actor and he actually gave 1505 01:38:59,660 --> 01:39:05,900 up acting for about three years and volunteered to be an interpreter attached to the Marines 1506 01:39:05,900 --> 01:39:08,940 because he realized that communication was a big deal and people were probably dying 1507 01:39:08,940 --> 01:39:11,460 because they weren't able to understand each other. 1508 01:39:11,460 --> 01:39:13,900 So an incredible guy, but he was in 12 Strong. 1509 01:39:13,900 --> 01:39:16,780 He played one of the Afghanis in, in that, that show. 1510 01:39:16,780 --> 01:39:21,180 But when I finally can figure out who the hell it was that told me they, they had a 1511 01:39:21,180 --> 01:39:25,180 connection, I'm hoping I'll be able to get one of those men on and then I'll be able 1512 01:39:25,180 --> 01:39:27,100 to ask, Hey, did you train the Clint? 1513 01:39:27,100 --> 01:39:29,940 So I'll get back to you if I find out the answer. 1514 01:39:29,940 --> 01:39:36,140 Well, I still haven't listened to Buck Braneman's link yet, but I'm going to for sure. 1515 01:39:36,140 --> 01:39:37,140 Brilliant. 1516 01:39:37,140 --> 01:39:38,140 Brilliant. 1517 01:39:38,140 --> 01:39:39,140 All right. 1518 01:39:39,140 --> 01:39:43,260 Well then on that same theme, is there a documentary that you've seen that you love? 1519 01:39:43,260 --> 01:39:51,940 Well, on that note, they did a 90, like a full night, I told you about the ESPN one 1520 01:39:51,940 --> 01:39:52,940 they did. 1521 01:39:52,940 --> 01:39:59,140 NBC Sports just did one on three or four of us, different athletes that struggled with 1522 01:39:59,140 --> 01:40:02,100 mental illness. 1523 01:40:02,100 --> 01:40:08,820 But they did a 90 minute documentary on me and you know, that's a full doc, 90 minutes 1524 01:40:08,820 --> 01:40:13,180 and I couldn't watch it. 1525 01:40:13,180 --> 01:40:14,180 I couldn't watch it. 1526 01:40:14,180 --> 01:40:20,220 They, you know, I saw a part where they were interviewing my mom and I just, I just tear, 1527 01:40:20,220 --> 01:40:24,980 tears welled up and because it brought back so many memories, especially when I was a 1528 01:40:24,980 --> 01:40:26,380 kid. 1529 01:40:26,380 --> 01:40:30,940 And so I didn't watch, didn't watch that any other documentary. 1530 01:40:30,940 --> 01:40:31,940 I can't come up. 1531 01:40:31,940 --> 01:40:34,940 Oh, there's, there's one called, I think, branded. 1532 01:40:34,940 --> 01:40:40,660 It's about these cowboys that go from the Mexican border in Arizona all the way up to 1533 01:40:40,660 --> 01:40:41,660 Canada. 1534 01:40:41,660 --> 01:40:43,460 That was, that was a pretty cool one. 1535 01:40:43,460 --> 01:40:45,060 I'm into the horses, obviously. 1536 01:40:45,060 --> 01:40:48,580 So you know, that one was pretty good. 1537 01:40:48,580 --> 01:40:49,580 Brilliant. 1538 01:40:49,580 --> 01:40:50,580 Unbranded. 1539 01:40:50,580 --> 01:40:51,580 Unbranded. 1540 01:40:51,580 --> 01:40:54,860 And then what was the name of the documentary that they did on you? 1541 01:40:54,860 --> 01:41:02,660 I think it's called Goalie, Life in the Crease, Clint Malarchuk, something like that. 1542 01:41:02,660 --> 01:41:03,660 Okay. 1543 01:41:03,660 --> 01:41:05,420 I just want to make sure I see that. 1544 01:41:05,420 --> 01:41:12,620 Yeah, it was, it was, it was done by a Canadian company, but I think it's on the internet 1545 01:41:12,620 --> 01:41:13,620 now. 1546 01:41:13,620 --> 01:41:14,620 Okay. 1547 01:41:14,620 --> 01:41:15,620 I will look that up. 1548 01:41:15,620 --> 01:41:16,620 Thank you. 1549 01:41:16,620 --> 01:41:17,620 All right. 1550 01:41:17,620 --> 01:41:19,980 So the next question, is there a person that you'd recommend to come on this podcast as 1551 01:41:19,980 --> 01:41:25,260 a guest to speak to the first responders, military and associated professions? 1552 01:41:25,260 --> 01:41:26,260 Yes. 1553 01:41:26,260 --> 01:41:29,700 A gentleman named Adam Keeler. 1554 01:41:29,700 --> 01:41:32,220 And he's also written, Alan Keeler. 1555 01:41:32,220 --> 01:41:34,660 He's also written a couple of really good books too. 1556 01:41:34,660 --> 01:41:39,300 And one just came out, I mean, yesterday. 1557 01:41:39,300 --> 01:41:41,300 Oh, really? 1558 01:41:41,300 --> 01:41:42,300 Yeah. 1559 01:41:42,300 --> 01:41:45,220 And he'd be a good interview for you too. 1560 01:41:45,220 --> 01:41:50,460 If you were, I can, I can forward you his, his phone number. 1561 01:41:50,460 --> 01:41:51,460 That would be brilliant. 1562 01:41:51,460 --> 01:41:52,460 I would love that. 1563 01:41:52,460 --> 01:41:53,460 Thank you. 1564 01:41:53,460 --> 01:41:54,460 All right. 1565 01:41:54,460 --> 01:41:57,900 So then the last question before we make sure everyone knows how they can find you online. 1566 01:41:57,900 --> 01:41:59,860 What do you do to decompress? 1567 01:41:59,860 --> 01:42:04,300 Well, I touched on it a bit. 1568 01:42:04,300 --> 01:42:09,100 Number one, I got to be, you know, kind of conscious. 1569 01:42:09,100 --> 01:42:13,980 You know, somebody told me one time, you know, if you're having a bad day, you've lost your 1570 01:42:13,980 --> 01:42:18,820 connection with your higher power, whatever your higher power is God or, you know, whatever 1571 01:42:18,820 --> 01:42:21,440 you call it. 1572 01:42:21,440 --> 01:42:28,220 And so if I'm, if I'm getting that squirrel starts going around in my head, I will, I'll 1573 01:42:28,220 --> 01:42:32,980 take that 10, I'll take a timeout, you know, whatever I can afford five minutes, 10 minutes, 1574 01:42:32,980 --> 01:42:36,580 20 minutes, and I'll do a meditation. 1575 01:42:36,580 --> 01:42:39,300 You know, working out is, is, is important. 1576 01:42:39,300 --> 01:42:43,500 It's an endorphin release, which helps us mentally. 1577 01:42:43,500 --> 01:42:49,900 Again, knowing where I'm at and if I need to go see a counselor, like I did with the 1578 01:42:49,900 --> 01:42:53,620 EMDR and then, you know, just being a service. 1579 01:42:53,620 --> 01:42:56,940 And like I said, don't, don't let that scare people being a service. 1580 01:42:56,940 --> 01:43:01,260 I mean, it's opening the door, it's smiling, it's trying to be happy when you're not, you 1581 01:43:01,260 --> 01:43:08,140 know, because once you start getting out of yourself and into other people, for me, it's, 1582 01:43:08,140 --> 01:43:11,180 it's, it's, it's the thing that really keeps me going. 1583 01:43:11,180 --> 01:43:12,180 Brilliant. 1584 01:43:12,180 --> 01:43:13,180 All right. 1585 01:43:13,180 --> 01:43:17,580 Well, then the last thing, the most important thing, if you want to reach out to you online, 1586 01:43:17,580 --> 01:43:20,300 what's the best place to find you? 1587 01:43:20,300 --> 01:43:22,260 My email, I mean, I've got a website. 1588 01:43:22,260 --> 01:43:29,420 It's malarchuk.com, M-A-L-A-R-C-H-U-K. 1589 01:43:29,420 --> 01:43:38,660 Or my email is Canuck Ranch, C-A-N-U-C-K, ranch, all one word, at yahoo.com. 1590 01:43:38,660 --> 01:43:41,060 And you know, I answer all my emails. 1591 01:43:41,060 --> 01:43:46,460 I'm not, I am on Facebook, but I'm not great on it. 1592 01:43:46,460 --> 01:43:47,700 And LinkedIn and all that. 1593 01:43:47,700 --> 01:43:49,620 I'm all on that. 1594 01:43:49,620 --> 01:43:52,740 But I really struggle with the technology there. 1595 01:43:52,740 --> 01:43:54,460 I do emails pretty good. 1596 01:43:54,460 --> 01:43:55,460 Brilliant. 1597 01:43:55,460 --> 01:43:57,060 Well, I just want to say thank you so much. 1598 01:43:57,060 --> 01:44:02,460 It's funny, when we talked the other day, you'd said you'd never done an interview over 1599 01:44:02,460 --> 01:44:03,460 about an hour. 1600 01:44:03,460 --> 01:44:05,260 Well, we're scraping almost two hours. 1601 01:44:05,260 --> 01:44:09,820 So I want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time. 1602 01:44:09,820 --> 01:44:10,820 No problem. 1603 01:44:10,820 --> 01:44:22,940 Thank you.