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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.
As always my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome back
onto the show veteran law enforcement officer and my friend Nick Hall.
Now for those of you who haven't heard episode 600, I highly recommend listening to that
first.
As a young boy, he and his mother were held up during a hostage situation and by a communication
error the SWAT team actually shot his mother, not the assailant.
Now as you can imagine, most of us have probably sent down extreme anger and maybe even vengeance.
But after a period of healing that we do discuss again, Nick decided to become a police officer
to become part of the solution.
So in this second conversation we discuss a host of topics from vasectomies, food prep,
fitness and law enforcement, his pursuit of SWAT, mental health, leadership and so much
more.
Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment,
go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and
leave a rating.
Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for
others to find.
And this is a free library of well over 900 episodes now.
So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so
I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.
So that being said, I welcome back onto the show, Nick Hall.
Enjoy.
Well Nick, I want to start by saying thank you so much for coming back on the Behind
the Shield podcast.
We did our first episode, episode 600, face to face in your home and I urge people that
haven't heard you speak before and tell your story to go to that one first.
But that being said, life is very different with you now.
So I want to welcome you back for a part two on the Behind the Shield podcast.
Thank you, man.
I appreciate coming back.
So I knew, what was it, like almost over two years ago we first met.
I think so, yeah.
I feel like a lot has changed for me, like family wise and work wise.
So I'm excited to come back.
Absolutely.
Well, icebreaker, as I said before we hit record, how are your balls doing?
They're still a little swollen, but they're feeling better.
So I know I got a vasectomy.
It's been what?
It's been nine days.
We're nine days out.
First operation is a 15 minute procedure.
So I don't recommend it, but after accidentally having baby number three, it was supposed
to happen after baby number two.
And then next thing you know, we have two kids 16 months apart.
So almost every once.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's the thing.
I've seen the vasectomy clinics.
They're like, oh, it's a painless procedure.
And then I'm like every man I know that had it done, you know, it had to be done.
But at the same time, it would sound like a miserable recovery.
So I wanted to be knocked out for it because I feel like I do enough.
I see enough crazy stuff at work.
So I can like kind of be kind of be soft when it comes to my own health.
But my wife, she was like, you got to man up and just get it done.
And she literally had baby number three, like four weeks ago.
And that was a whole nother episode of we didn't even make it to the hospital bed.
Like she ended up giving birth in the lobby.
So yeah, I don't know.
I forgot.
I should have told you.
So yeah, two o'clock in the morning, I'm sleeping on the couch with the one year old just trying
to like keep him away from her so she can get rest.
And I hear my phone just going off and I look and she's calling me.
She's like, I'm having contractions.
And I was like, oh, no.
So my mother-in-law comes over to watch the baby and the eight year old and then her water
breaks.
I haul probably went like 90 miles an hour down the main road to get to the hospital.
And so here the labor and delivery is on the fourth floor.
So when we get there, it's two in the morning or four in the morning, there's no one there.
So I'll call a call up and say, hey, my wife's in labor.
I need a we need a wheelchair.
Someone can bring her up and they're like, OK, we'll be there in a minute.
And so I'm asking her, I'm like, do you want to wait or do you want to go?
So let's just go.
So we get up the elevator, get to the labor and delivery lobby.
As I'm checking her in, I just hear her screaming behind me and I look and she's like, the heads
coming out.
And so there I'm like, hey, we need help.
I'm telling is me, the security guard and my two like grandmas waiting in the lobby.
And so I started to pull her pajama pants down and she's like, don't pull my pants down.
I'm like, OK, I pull them back up.
And I just had my hands like underneath her.
And dude, out of nowhere, the baby just drops down.
I catch the baby like a frickin football and I'm screaming for help.
The ability of course wrapped around the neck, but I think it just happened when she came
out.
So no injuries or nothing.
Healthy baby.
But yeah, it was very that was the most adrenaline I've ever had off duty in a while.
That's amazing.
For a moment, I was about to push back when your wife said just man up and have the vasectomy
if she'd had caesarean sections on epidurals.
But no.
All right.
So you need a man up.
I gotta give her a shout out.
So three babies, no epidural.
That was the quickest we've been in and out of the hospital.
So yeah, when I was getting my balls snipped and they were like, oh man, you're doing pretty
well putting your pants on.
And I told him, I said, my wife's just like, shoot a kid out.
So the least I could do is put my pants on.
Did the baby like was it born inside the pajama pants?
It was like half in half out.
Like my hands went like, like, okay.
And you went in.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it was it was one of those things where it's like, man, how did I catch her?
I don't remember, but I caught it.
If not, if not, she would have hit the ground.
So it was like, okay.
Amazing.
Well, for people listening again, if they listen to 600, as far as the the kind of
depth of the story that we're about to tell, but you're about to tell, excuse me, but
you just had the anniversary of losing your mother again.
And so I know that we wanted to kind of revisit that.
So why don't we start again with, you know, kind of leading us through that story and
then obviously we'll progress through into the changes in law enforcement that you've
you've you've had now and then obviously your fatherhood experience.
Yes.
I mean, the whole reason why the universe got me and you together, you know, back in
2000, 24 years ago now, you know, my my mom, me and my sister, who's a baby at the time,
we had just moved down from Orlando to from New York to Orlando.
And at the time, there was a guy from down south.
He ended up robbing a convenience store down in Pompano Beach and ended up killing the
clerk.
He fled from Pompano Beach, went up to Orange County.
Deputies were looking for him at the time.
They found him in one certain area, initiated a traffic stop on him.
He ended up shooting a deputy in the leg and fled from there.
And he fled to our aunt's house.
It's a little bit a little bit close to sea road area, like unincorporated Orange County
area.
He fled there.
He ended up holding our family hostage at the time.
So that hostage situation originally lasted about 50 hours.
And while he was in there, he ended up shooting my cousin in the mouth.
But he ended up living.
He's, you know, he's good to this day.
And after that, like one by one, some of us were able to get out of the house.
But back then, Orange County SWAT team wasn't as big as it is now.
I don't know the number now, but due to the standoff lasting so long, they had Orlando
PD SWAT team.
They ended up relieving them.
And once when they relieved them, the exchange of information was, you know, we have a white
male suspect with a black family.
So eventually, the SWAT team was trying to lure the gunman out with the food.
So the game plan was, you know, hey, bring the family food.
He goes out to get the food and I'm taking a shot.
So once once that was the plan, he ended up telling me to go get the food and me being
a little eight year old at the time, I just remember saying, you know, no, I don't want
to do it.
I told my mom to go get the food.
And when she went to go out to the garage, I just remember hearing multiple gunshots.
And after that, the gunman, he ends up letting me hold my baby sister.
He covers my head, escorts me out of the house.
And I'm just asking, you know, the paramedics, they were in the back of an ambulance, they're
checking on my sister.
And I'm asking, where's my mom?
Where's my mom?
And later on, they tell me, you know, that the SWAT team accidentally shot her instead
of the suspect.
So I know back then after that happened, moments later, he ends up killing himself.
SWAT team ends up going in the house and my 16, I think she was 16 at the time, my other
cousin and baby cousin were in the house and ended up getting them out.
And that that tragic moment in my life, I didn't realize it would have such a bearing
on what what I was going to do now with my adulthood and becoming a cop and then end up
meeting people that were actually on the call when it happened and seeing SWAT change, how
they have a target recognition and do things like that in the realm of like police work.
So I mean, so everything happens for a reason.
And I feel like, you know, me being a cop down here in Florida was just one of those
things that I was supposed to do.
You know,
when people hear the story, you know, this the knee jerk reaction would obviously just
be anger and hate, you know, because, you know, someone stole someone trusted in a position
that we put all our trust in stole your mother.
Talk to me about and I know we covered this the first time, but I think it's worth revisiting
the journey that you had as far as your grief and trauma and then what and or who it was
that made you turn a corner into being part of the solution rather than carrying that
that hatred with you, which is understandable as well.
Yeah, I mean, it was it was it was tough.
And when I see like other people, there's no there's no correct time frame of how long
it should take you to mourn the loss of like a loved one, like your parents, you know.
So for me growing up, it took a while of because I would always blame myself.
You know, I thought I left the garage door open and I always thought like, hey, this
is my fault.
I had I had the garage door closed and it wouldn't have happened.
And then, you know, I remember they tried to put me in counseling as I was younger,
but it didn't really help when I started getting older and starting to have a relationship
with God.
That's kind of where I felt more at peace of like everything happens for a reason.
And God puts you where you need to be when you need to be there.
And once I started getting older towards, you know, 18, 19, I ended up.
Well, so I guess after my my mom had passed, I ended up coming to the Rock County to live
with my dad and my stepmom.
And ironically, my dad was a cop up in New York.
But, you know, living with him, I never it was never really in my head to be
in law enforcement just because, you know, kind of seeing what what happened, it was
never you know, I don't want to get into that.
It didn't didn't seem fun.
I was kind of like a computer nerd at the time.
I wanted to do graphic design.
But after having a fallout with my dad and stepmom, you know, found out he was cheating
on my stepmom.
Lots of respect for him doing the whole, you know, 18 year rebellious thing.
And anytime they'd leave, go out of town, I would have friends over and smoke weed,
do all that kind of stuff.
And then he found out, kicked me out.
I was homeless.
And so I'm just living in my car for about a month, couch surfing at all my friends'
places whenever they were in college.
And then at the time, my girlfriend, now my wife, her family ended up letting me stay
with them for what was supposed to be a week, turned into a year.
You know, got my bearings under my feet.
I wanted to start making better decisions, you know, growing up.
Like, all right, you know, like, 2021, I want to do something instead of time I was working
construction with my father-in-law.
And I realized I want to do more than just work construction in Florida, you know, because
that's not, it's not fun.
It's hot.
So at that time, I started to think about and self reflect on what what do I want to
do?
I want to help people and I want to make good decisions and and just try to be be at the
right place at the right time.
And initially I thought about being a firefighter, but I'm afraid of heights.
So every time I saw the ladder truck, I was like, yeah, I can't, I can't climb that.
So I'm afraid of bullets.
So I feel you.
Yeah, I'd rather get shot than climb a ladder.
It's so funny listening to cops and firefighters.
I could never do your job.
Even wildland, I could never go into a field with a with a speed, you know, and I can never
get into a burning building.
So it's hilarious.
Listen to everyone talk.
So, so yeah, it was really like in between that and then I was like, all right, let me
go.
I think I want to be a cop.
And, you know, I talked to them.
I told my my mom's side, my aunt, you know, the everybody that was involved, I kind of
told them when I wanted to do it just to like, you know, let them know and they supported
it.
So, you know, it's about 21, you know, getting to the police academy.
And yeah, we get into police camp at 21.
The wife and I were engaged, end up getting married.
My first it took me about a year to get a job.
And when I ended up getting a job, she was pregnant with the first baby at the time.
So we ended up working in Cocoa where I met the O.G., Doug Monda, who's doing his thing
now with Survive First and, you know, kind of working over there.
I saw a lot, you know, did a lot as a high crime area.
So I felt like I was grateful for the experience that I had in working in that city.
Taught me a lot about myself and and kind of reaffirmed why I wanted to be a cop, because
I wanted to be able to be in that situation of if something's going down, like you run
towards the fire, man, you like you don't want to stay away from it.
You know, you like you want to help people save people because there's a lot of people
out there that can't help themselves or they're just stuck in a situation where they're living
in a high crime area.
And it's hard for them to make a decision on their own, so they kind of kind of need
law enforcement to help with that.
You mentioned about when you were younger, seeing the impact of the job on your dad and
therefore didn't really make you want to do that.
And I think this is one of the problems we're seeing with recruitment today is a lot of
a lot of children.
I forget people told me in the military side, there was a huge percentage of military kids
that end up going to the military as well.
And they were seeing that fall immensely because their fathers and mothers have been in the
global war on terror for the 20 years.
So their perception of war was very different than probably an 80s military member.
But I think this is what's happening now in law enforcement and fire and EMS and dispatch
is in corrections as well.
They're seeing it's not so much the job.
I think it's the environment.
It's a preventable element, whether it's the work week, whether it's the lack of support
from an organization, the media, the country, whatever it is, that our children are looking
at this guy and this doesn't look as good as the TV or the movie show.
So that's today.
But what was it when you look back now with a kind of veteran law enforcement perspective,
what were the elements of your father's job and the impact on you as a small child that
made you not want to go initially?
So I mean, he really when he I guess back in like the 80s, 70s, he was an NYPD.
And he kind of spoke a lot about racism inside the department.
And it was like, yeah, I agree it exists.
But that was one thing where I never you know, we all experience it at some point.
But as far as like, for me, I didn't I didn't see it as something that would like it didn't
just seem like too appeasing for me to want to get into.
And then, you know, he ended up medically retiring and he never spoke like too highly
about I want his kids to do it.
So it was never something that I thought I'd be wanting to get into.
So but once I started getting older and then my kind of reflecting and looking back on
because I'm like the realm of like you have and I don't know if you probably have it in
the fire family, too.
But like in law enforcement, there's normally you go through like you have your first wife,
second wife, third wife, you know, multiple divorce, separate families, this and that.
And looking back and just thinking about like his his life with that, like with my mom and
my stepmom, it kind of felt like it felt like it felt that same realm of, you know, more
than you know, your first marriage doesn't work out and you have another marriage.
And it didn't seem like something I wanted to get into, like living like that.
And then around the time when I was graduated high school, 18, and I just saw like what
my stepmom was going through with the affair that he was having.
It really just made me like think, you know, he's kind of like a scumbag.
It's not the that's not something that I look up to as like what I want to be.
And once after going through everything I did with my wife, you know, her being there
for me, like she was literally driving back and forth, bringing me food as I'm homeless,
sleeping in a car.
And, you know, just kind of realize like she's been there for me since day one.
I got to do right by her.
And it was funny, one of the first lieutenants when I was working at Coco, he made a joke
when he first met her and he was like, Oh, this is your starter wife.
And to this day, to this day, man, she she she remembers that I won't say his name, but
he knows if he's listening, he knows she always she always gives him shit every time I always
see him.
So I guess still here.
So but um, but yeah, it's definitely, you know, when you speak about like having grown
up with a role model and having like a dad or male figure, same sex figure of like who
you are, like what you want to be.
I didn't really have that.
And it wasn't till when I got into the academy and like, you know, started like wanted to
wanted to be better than what I had is like kind of what helped me get into.
All right, well, this job is something that's going to help me make better choices, you
know, because I didn't want to be the dumbass.
I was just smoking weed and partying like I used to be.
I wanted to do more than just, you know, work construction shovel and concrete.
So I wanted to have a career and it was it was just that outside searching for like mentorship,
and at the time when I was in the academy, Michael Cador, he was the coordinator and
he's a real like a pillar in the community out here.
And I think conversations with him really like kind of gave me like, okay, like, you
know, I think I can do this.
And you know, there's this is something that I want to do and help people kind of do it,
do it the right way, like kind of live a better life, you know.
Yeah, I mean, it's always it's always interesting to see that when there's a history of whatever,
it'll send people down one or two paths, either they'll copy the same behavior.
And so this is when I think this the, you know, alcoholism is genetic conversation is
very dangerous because I disagree personally, I think it's environmental, there's an element
of, you know, genetic because of course, we know now that the genes do morph, they change.
So if you have been an addict for a long time, you know, your your body will change, but
you can also do the opposite, you can reverse it.
But I had the same kind of thing.
There was infidelity, you know, my parents marriage and it sent me completely down the
other path where my friends would make fun of me because I'd break up with a girl when
I was, you know, 18, because I didn't feel madly in love with them.
I'm like, well, what's the point?
Like, you know, if I'm not all in, it's not fair on her, let her go find someone who who
wants her, you know what I mean?
And yet they would give me shit and then they'd be cheating on the girlfriend.
So I never quite understood that.
But I think it sends you one of one of two ways.
It's interesting, though, because now when I look back at my family situation and I look
back at, you know, probably same thing with your dad is you realize that a lot of the
the marital issues in in first responder professions, there's a huge mental health element to it,
you know, and it might not even be from the job specifically might be before when they
were younger, but, you know, the reason why people just latch on to the first person and
then, you know, it may not work, you know, or they devolve from sleep deprivation and
trauma and all that kind of stuff and they become more angry and more impatient and less,
you know, affectionate.
That has an impact, too.
So that's what's so sad is when you look back, you know, one of those marriages may have
worked beautifully had they not had the background that they had and or been in that profession.
And the thing that gives me hope is that's all preventable.
We stop the cycle of trauma and we give people in our professions enough rest and recovery
and emotional support.
There shouldn't be, you know, a divorce epidemic in our profession.
Yeah, yeah.
And it seems like it's one of those things where like you could you will change like
when you first start the job to when you progress, you will change, you know, and you have like
people that come out of the military and get into law enforcement.
So they kind of already had a taste of it.
But you know, when you're talking like a young kid, early 20s doing this and then, you know,
almost 10 years in doing it now, like you're not the same person because you've seen a
lot and you've been through a lot.
And it's just, you know, I learned I'm not sitting there trying to act like I'm perfect
or nothing.
But like we've been to marriage counseling.
And I think it helped me realize like my issues of communication to where I wasn't the way
I was saying things or the way I was keeping information like it wasn't it wasn't healthy
of like just my tone of voice speaking to, you know, the person that loves me and that
wants to help me get through anything.
And then another thing that I'm realizing, I had issues with my dad that I had to go
back and revisit.
And that I think now at this point in my life, I have closure on how that kind of relationship
is, you know, because I don't think I mentioned it earlier, because I ended up around that
time I was 18 19, you know, I ended up finding out he wasn't my real dad.
That kind of just came out in the argument after you know, getting kicked out.
And I wasn't sure I didn't believe it or not.
So I started asking family members about like, hey,
you just said he's not my real dad.
Is that true?
And they're like, yeah, we didn't know waiting for somebody to tell you.
So it's like, oh, okay.
So here's new information that I'm trying to process.
And it was actually around the time when we first when I first met was when I first had
real conversations with my biological father, and ended up finding out, you know, he was
just an insurance agent that ended up, you know, cheating on his wife with my mom.
And then, you know, she got pregnant.
So he then his whole family because I asked him, I said, well, does anybody from your
family is your wife?
Do they know about me said for for the sake of his marriage, he said no.
So it was like, okay, well, I had I was only two, you know, kind of had this, this, this
dad and then this other dad is like, oh, that's great.
So definitely, it kind of gets with your head of like, what?
What am I here?
What am I supposed to be doing?
You know, so and but for me having first having my daughter and then having, you know, the
two other ones that kind of put in perspective of like, they need, they need a two parent
household like they need a dad that's present, you know, they kind of, it's just realizing
what what you didn't have and just trying to give your kids what you didn't have.
And I have those moments where it's like my daughter or something, you know, they're kind
of being soft and I'll make the joke of like, why are you upset?
You have two pair of household, like you should be happy.
Like you got a mom and dad.
But it's, it's definitely it can your past can affect you and then the job what you're
doing can also like, there's so many outliers of like, what can kind of good put you down
a route of like depression, anxiety, like drinking, like he's alcoholism.
I mean, I had a small time where I was working nights and I just remember I'd come home every
morning I'm drinking a beer every and every shift and I was like, all right, this doesn't
this doesn't seem too healthy.
I kind of need to I need to sleep.
And I just kind of started to have an outlet to do things.
So one thing I've talked about recently, and again, all my thoughts are because of all
the guests have been on here.
It's not like I have some, you know, epiphany of my own, but I realized that when we have
the childhood trauma conversation, there's some kind of people like, oh, you're just
blaming you know, you're just blaming that.
And I think the the nuance of that is, if you don't address things that happen when
you were young, and then you get into law enforcement, military, and it's buried down,
and then you do and see what you do in uniform, that can be a very fractured foundation for
our profession.
You've had in, you know, shifts and sleep deprivation and all the other stuff.
And now you've really started to build a perfect storm for some, you know, emotional troubles.
Conversely, though, I feel like if you had trauma, and you've been able to process it
healthily, I think that's the hope conversation, the post traumatic growth.
And I truly believe that becomes a superpower in uniform.
And I think that's why some people struggle and some people don't.
It's not that any of us were born any better than each other.
It's just simply that, you know, some of us were fortunate that despite some of the shit
things that happen, we were able to work through them before we entered, you know, law enforcement,
fire, whatever it is.
What's your perspective of the horrendous trauma that you had as a child, and then,
you know, the work that you had to do a lot sooner than most of us had to, and how that
carried on into law enforcement?
So, I mean, I think I think I was able to have, you know, like a lot of time to go through
it, you know, as opposed to if something like that happened at like 20 years old, and then,
you know, become a cop at 21, I'd be kind of a big time of like, oh, that's, I feel
like you still need more time to process, you know, like this past this past week was
my mom's 64th birthday.
And still, I had to work that day, and we're just kind of busy and, you know, just kind
of taking it easy with the with the second me, like, it just feels like another day to
where like you didn't have, I didn't have a chance to go through and like reflect and
and like enjoy it, you know, and so I think, for me, having a 24 year gap to process, it
really helped me like get through that trauma to get to where I am now to where I can talk
about it.
And I feel like I've been, I try to use it as like, hey, this situation happened.
And, you know, I'm better because of it.
As opposed to I could have just been, you know, a scumbag or, you know, it could have
just been anger at the world.
And instead, like now I'm at peace.
I can I can reach out to people and try to help people get through whatever they're going
through.
So I think for me, the time that I had helped me process it and being able to do something
like this, where I can like talk to people and like reach out because, you know, outside
of this, I'll go to the schools and I'll speak to kids because I mean, kids are going through
something that they probably don't tell their parents and if they could hear an adult say,
this, something bad happened to me, but I'm here to let you know, it's going to be OK
and you can get through it and you can still be a successful adult as a way of like, you
know, giving hope and looking back, I think.
I don't know if I would say I needed that, but I think if I would have heard that from
somebody like it would have been as nice to hear, you know what I mean?
Well, again, it's hope.
This is why I remember when we first put out your episode, you know, the the response was
incredible and I think that's just simply because the knee-jerk reaction would be anger
and hatred and, you know, those kind of negative emotions.
And of course, initially, I'm sure there was a lot in your family, but every single person
has their version of struggles when they were younger.
Now, some are way more acute like yours was.
Some are, you know, maybe a little bit more chronic, like, you know, being a middle child
and not feeling loved or, you know, whatever, whatever.
I mean, but everyone has their thing.
But what I don't hear in the not just the mental health conversation, in the crime conversation
and the addiction conversation, I mean, all these different areas is that, you know, you
may have been brought up this way.
You may have had these kind of parents or one parent or no parent or whatever it was,
but there is a way to still thrive.
And now, you know, like yourself, it means enduring the pain and finding the tools that
work for you, whether it's counseling or meds or psychedelics or, you know, horses or whatever
it is.
But I don't hear the hope conversation nearly enough.
It's always, you know, like with law enforcement, the laws that you have to enforce is, you
know, and certainly until recently, if they're an addict, take them to prison.
You caught them with drugs, take them to prison.
You know, they're they joined a gang, take them to prison.
You know, so we penalize the the the side effects of unaddressed trauma rather than
going to the nucleus and going, well, why why are these people finding themselves in
a situation?
How can we get to the beginning?
And I think the answer is stories like yours.
And as a young person or, you know, maybe someone older listening to this going, wow,
you know, if Nick can Nick can get through that and join the very profession that ultimately
killed his mother, then I can grow from whatever it is that I'm going through and end up making
the world better rather than making it even worse.
Yeah, I mean, definitely.
There's been times at work where I tell people because I mean, the only options for for me
to take somebody is, you know, a jail, the hospital or, you know, or like a mental health
facility for like a Baker Act.
Like those those options, they don't really solve much.
They just kind of are if you do this and this is what's going to happen to you, you know.
But at the end of the day, there's times where you're like taking somebody somewhere, you
know, they're just going to get arrested again or, you know, they're just going to get a
Baker Acted again or a March enacted, you know, just from having an addiction and being
an influence of drugs or alcohol.
So it definitely it sucks to where there's nothing.
You know, we need more resources, but you don't know, like, when they're going to happen.
So I know, like in our our county, they've been starting to have more more resources
starting to come about to help people in need.
So I think we're getting a step in the right direction with that.
And it's definitely it's it's unfortunate because I've seen it where I'm telling like
a parent telling them, you know, they have like a teenage kid that just doesn't want
to listen.
And I'll try to if we have time, you know, called permitting, I try to tell them, hey,
you know, something bad happened to me.
I made bad choices, but it doesn't need to be like this with adults is more unfortunate
because it's harder to change an adult.
But if you can just tell an adult, hey, you need to find a why of like, why do you want
to get better if you don't have a why?
You're just going to end up being in the same predicament.
And then unfortunately, you know, there's times where I mean, you've probably seen it
where you had an overdose and then a month later, the same overdose.
And then that time ends up killing the guy, you know.
So it's it's definitely it's definitely unfortunate to where we don't have enough resources to
help people as Richard.
As a firefighter captain, I work with out in California and we just lost him about a
year ago and I just found out that his son just died of an overdose as well.
So I mean, that's two family members that are, you know, I mean, that the remaining
family, I'm sure, are absolutely devastated.
But this is the very conversation that we're talking about.
You know, what when, you know, when we die at whatever 90, 95, 100, you know, or we get
hit by an asteroid, those were not preventable.
But so many of these deaths, so many of the, you know, the struggles that people are going
through, the fear that people are going through, it's all preventable.
But we have to have that proactive, you know, nucleus conversation.
What is the beginning of this?
Why are the streets of America so dangerous?
You know, I mean, what's happening in in a, you know, a school that's not in an affluent
neighborhood?
Is it getting more support or is it getting less because it's being cut because of its
grades?
You know, we've got to address the root cause so that we create kind, compassionate, happy
young boys and girls that then end up making the world better.
But if we keep just demonizing their responses to the shitty environment that we put them
in to grow in, then, you know, as they say insanity, you know, doing the same thing,
expecting different results.
Yeah.
And I think now, like in this day and age, we're especially kind of like my generation
is the one having, you know, at the end of kids, it's we're starting to more more information
becoming more available to where it's like, all right, if public school is not working,
you know, we have the resource of private school or even the resource of homeschool.
You know, I've seen a couple of my friends homeschool their kids after realizing, you
know, certain public schools isn't working for them.
I mean, my wife's talked about it with my daughter, but I don't think that's going to
happen with two babies in the house.
But it's definitely I like the direction that and it feels like we're kind of realizing
how some things in the past works better than how they are now.
Like you have a lot of young people starting a homestead.
I mean, I got a friend of mine where I get I get fresh eggs from, you know, drinking
raw milk.
I got sourdough starter from her.
I'm making my own bread.
I told the wife, I said, listen, like the game plan is, you know, eventually get some
land and it's kind of, you know, I live off the land because after, you know, along the
lines of like the outside sources of no one cares about you as much as like you care for
your family.
So as far as long as like the schools are getting filled, you know, someone's making
money off of that, but they don't really care too much about if the kids are learning, you
know, I've been lucky.
I've been blessed to have a smart daughter to where it's like, all right, if she as she
misses a day or two of school, it's not the end of the world.
Like as for me, I was stupid.
So I had to go to school every day.
Yeah, yeah.
I told Tomo, I said I got the perfect attendance award, but you know, I got a I graduated with
like a two point, what did that get me?
You know, so I think looking back and kind of being able to like in this day and age,
we're able to, you know, have more resources of doing things for you, like especially your
kids or or for your own self in regards of like the information is out there.
You just got to you just got to find it.
And I think that's one of the things that I've been trying to focus more on after I
was in 2021 when I had COVID pretty bad and I'm getting pneumonia and I miss work for
about a month.
And it was like, OK, I I want to start eating better.
And I want to kind of know where I get certain things from.
So I went I went down that rabbit hole of grass, grass, finished beef.
I order my ground beef from a farm of Georgia.
I get my chicken from a good ranchers.
You know, no antibiotics.
I try to I try to make sure the bulk of what I'm eating is is not going to kill me because
I know I mean, I'm 30 31 now.
If I can get 31 more years left, I want it to be I'm trying to look like you when I get
older.
You know what I mean?
Like I don't want to I don't want to have like, you know, friggin like diabetes, you
know, you know, missing the leg, cut a cut a leg off.
I just want to I want to as I get older, get better physically, mentally.
And that's just one of the game plans of eating better, living better.
I say that, but my problem is on the weekends, you know, I still kill like a whole sleeve
of Oreos.
So I'm trying to try to work on being more consistent and like an eating right.
So that's another thing where it's like, all right, here's the government, FDA and all
them.
They don't really care what's in the product.
You see all this stuff that we're eating is banned in other countries and makes you want
to like pay attention to that.
Like why is cereal banned in Japan?
Like what?
Like what is that?
And the other day I saw my wife had bought some cereal and I was like, why?
Why is this in the house?
As before, like I could eat like half a box of Frosted Flakes on a weekend.
And it's just it's just little things I try to little things that if I could change to
help me live longer and live better, healthier, you know, it affects how you feel like during
the week.
My my weekly game plan, whenever I work, I eat a pound of ground beef a day.
I try to hit like 200 plus grams of protein and that kind of fills me up.
I mostly like meat and fruit that will get me going through the week and I feel good.
And then I notice the weeks where like it was too busy and I'm not consistent.
I could feel it in my body where it's like I'm not sleeping as good.
I don't have enough energy.
Like I can feel like my recovery from working out doesn't feel as good.
So it's like when you notice those things as an adult, it's like, well, can we do can
we make sure like your kids are eating good too to make sure they have the same like kind
of rhythm that you go through?
Because I notice it with my daughter where some nights the bedtime is eight o'clock.
But you know, we're in this new realm of having the two babies.
So sometimes she ends up going to bed later and then the morning comes and it's just a
harder, a harder reset of getting the day going.
So if it's like that when you're younger, it's like that when you're older, especially
what you eat.
And and it's like, how do we get better with all the information that we have?
And it's there.
You just got to take it, read it and run with it.
Absolutely.
And I think Tony just reminded me of a video I shared three or four days ago, but it was
Killer Mike, who I think is amazing.
And he was speaking at some event and I'm assuming that someone had talked about, you
know, some sort of kind of revolution uprising, whatever it was.
And I just had Lamont Jenkins on the show, who is one of the guys that kind of really
shows the white supremacy movements in America.
And it was a great Darrell.
So Darrell Lamont Jenkins.
And he was talking about the kind of the kind of revolution concepts.
And he wasn't saying that it needs to happen, but it was the pushback to obviously the racism
from from the neo-Nazi side.
But I guess someone had suggested that.
And Killer Mike said, you know, let me see a show of hands.
How many of you grow your own fruit and vegetables?
And there was a few.
How many of you hunt?
How many of you actually own a firearm and go to the range every one, two times a week?
He said, so you ain't ready for a revolution.
And I was like, and I was like, yeah, and that's for all of us.
That's the regardless of skin color, whatever that is us, you know, you're so worried about
what Fox or CNN has told you and you're so fucking angry, but yet you're not even, you
know, taking care of your own home.
You're not even making sure.
Because I remember when I came to your house, you were growing in the backyard even then.
But I'm best.
I got up.
I'm not weird.
I can't clear.
I don't know.
Set me up, man.
You know, I, you know, I, you know, I, you know, I, you know, I, you know, I, you know,
I ain't knocking on my door.
It's funny.
I just right now, the garden, though we got, we got some russet potatoes and sweet potatoes
back there.
And I got some onions I'm working on and some, some blackberries.
That's the current.
That's what I got currently going on out there.
And this damn pineapple that I've been trying to grow for like three frickin years.
That's just, it's not happening.
But, but yeah, right before I'd be real.
Which is like nine 30 and I was just watering the yard and I was like, man, let me check
on these potatoes.
And like some of them were dying.
So I was literally outside right before getting on here and digging up some potatoes.
I got, they're kind of small.
It takes about like, it says like 90 to a hundred days and we're like a day 60.
And I thought, I thought it was dying.
So it was just a experiment on how, on how to grow russet potatoes.
And I think I planted them a little too close.
So sorry, I went on a rant there.
Sorry, no, no.
Well, here's the thing.
And I'm always very, excuse me, very clear about this.
I grew up on a farm in England where we had a vegetable garden and we had animals and
we had an orchard with, you know, apples and all kinds of stuff.
And so this is what I try and illustrate is that the reason why I would eat well is because
I was raised with that being real food.
And I'm, you know, but if I grew up in the Bronx, then the bodega might be the only thing
that I know about real food or about food, should I say.
And the sleeves of Oreos would become a consistent thing, you know, maybe on a daily basis.
So it's so important that we have this conversation.
It's not shaming people because that's how you get people to not listen to you about
exercise or nutrition.
Like, well, if you just get up every day at four and eat salad and you look like me, firstly,
dude, I don't want to look like you.
Secondly, you know, well, how were you raised and what was your education and how are you
even living the style that you're living?
You know, liver king, for example, or you just full of fucking hot air.
But if we actually, you know, look compassionately and again, going to the origin, how do we
get people in what they call food deserts to start understanding real food and make
it more affordable in those areas and, you know, bring, because obviously you can't have
a farm in a little New York city.
So how do the surrounding lush, you know, counties and states, you know, serve L.A.,
you know, New York, et cetera, so that we can actually make it accessible?
Because people say, oh, healthy food is so expensive.
It's like it's not really at its source, but they don't get any subsidies.
Your local farmers, even though there was a pandemic that supposedly almost killed everyone,
they still don't get any subsidies.
You know, it's the mega farms and monocrops.
So we have to really push that so that we are empowering people to know what food looks
like.
You know, what can you grow?
Even if it's just herbs, you know, you can always grow something.
And the same with exercise.
You know, you may not have access to, you know, a beautiful sportsplex like I've got
around the corner here, but how do we empower people to understand, you know, that movement
is going to help them?
And so if you just have this kind of judgy, well, just do what I do mentality that you
see in some of the fitness space, then you're not going to draw people in.
You've got to you've got to start assuming that someone was raised not knowing how to
grow what food looks like.
Yeah.
And I think you just you got to make whole foods more appeasing to people because I think
a lot of people end up thinking and it's you know, I've been there where it's the work
week, you know, if both parents are working, what's for dinner real quick, just pick up
Taco Bell and McDonald's, you know, like for us.
If I mean, it's kind of spaced out, I'd probably say one week, the end of being a Taco Bell
night and then like the next week will be like a Papa John's night.
And there's times where I'm like, OK, we can we can be better.
We can be better if we like prepped more.
So it definitely takes like that mindset of like, all right, let's let's be better about
meal prepping.
And, you know, as someone that, you know, me and my wife, we didn't really have a chance
to do the whole like bodybuilding thing.
We're like, you know, if you're living, you don't really have kids or nothing to where
you can get your chicken or rice every day, meal prep that I think the people that end
up doing that younger and, you know, they get older and they have a family.
It kind of helps set the tone for the consistency of like eating good.
But as far as like when you don't have that and you're learning that you're trying to
implement it is better than just not trying to implement it at all.
So I think that's kind of where we're where we're at in our life right now with like health
and, you know, trying to eat better.
And, you know, she's she's recovering from having the baby.
I'm recovering from a vasectomy.
So we can't really work out right now as much as we want to.
Like she's I think probably like four weeks out from, you know, from like lifting and
doing stuff.
So it really comes down to just staying consistent and like setting like, all right, this is
what we're going to eat.
These are the snacks that we're going to make for the kids.
This is what you've done a week that's healthy.
And I think I've been finding a lot of stuff on like Instagram of like healthy snacks that
you can make, you know, instead of like buying things.
And it's just like our main thing now with the baby.
He loves the middle baby, the one year old.
He'll go to town on some some fruit.
He'll kill some berries.
So last night, the newborn, she was crying up all night and I was sitting there trying
to, you know, wash wash all the other strawberries and blueberries with what we use water and
and baking soda, you know, kind of clean it and then just can it.
So because once we learned when we figured out about canning, I think that's when it
was starting to be like, oh, the fruit last longer.
And you know, kind of stays cleaner.
Like we got to let's start doing this.
And that's like one of those little things where I realized by that in bulk and like
clean it up.
You know, it's a good healthy snack for the kids throughout the day.
So it's just like those little things instead of just, all right, let's just get McDonald's,
you know, or let's just get Taco Bell.
Let's get Burger King.
But there's no money.
There's no money in it.
And you know, eating fruits and vegetables and, you know, eating whole food, having a
whole food diet.
The money is in the process, and once you start to when you realize the process is not
really there for you to live longer and you start looking at I forgot where I heard it
from a while back, but I saw it was something that it was something on the Internet and
it was about the people that are eating certain foods.
And you look at them, you're like, look at how that person looks and look what they eat.
Do you want to look at that person?
And it's like, yeah, I don't really want to do that.
So I got to make better choices.
And and and from my thing with my kids, I don't want my kids to to start off and be
fat when they're young, because it's hard to it's hard to get on fat if you if you start
out young like that.
So you know, we keep my daughter active.
She's what she's doing on horseback piano.
I think we got volleyball coming back up again.
But just try to keep her moving and keep him outside.
And one thing that I learned from a book I read, Steve vanilla was that book called
it was like us.
Well, I wrote it down because I wanted to want to touch on that.
It was on outdoor kids in an inside world and the power of like just putting your kids
outside.
My my son, he loves being outside.
If you go to put the dogs out and close the door, he run up to the door, he starts crying
because he wants to be outside.
And you can see like the energy released for him being outside, like playing outside.
And it's a it's good for them.
But if you grew up in like a metropolitan area, you don't have a really outside or a
safe outside where it's just concrete and high crime.
You don't really want to be out there because they're going to get influenced by something
bad out there.
There's no I mean, outside of Central Park, what does New York have?
You know, I just like I just remember like, you know, just big old like playgrounds.
But I mean, how long can you be on just like a big concrete playground?
Like there's just something about playing in dirt that some kids need.
And I'm glad I realized that, you know, second go around with the second kid young early
on because there's times where we think, you know, like, why is he acting up?
Why is he like, why is he always being a brat?
Well, it's just like, OK, no, he he just needs to release his energy, needs to be outside.
We don't need to get mad at him because he's not getting the attention he needs because,
you know, you know, I'm working and then we have the newborn.
He just needs to be outside to get his energy out.
So I think that's definitely like two of the things just having having nature and then
having caring about eating whole foods like really affects like affects your body, affects
your mental, you know, and it really makes a difference on like how how your day goes.
You hear people say, you know, back in my day, you know, we'd be gone all day and then
have to come home and the street lights come on.
And it's literally, you know, what what I had on the farm, but there were no street
lights, you know, just when you couldn't see anymore, you go back in.
But where I live now in Ocala, it's it's beautiful and we have that same exact thing.
But this is a really nice neighborhood, you know, and there's a bunch of communities around
a communal area that's got a football pitch and tennis courts and a basketball court and
that's the community pool.
So the kids have the ability to do that.
But like you said, you say that to someone in Manhattan, like, you know, what we people
don't think about is, is it safe for your kids to be out there?
You know, and a lot of not a laborhood is not.
So therefore they are bound to that house.
And then, like you said, if you don't even have a back garden because you live in some
urban setting, you know, then is the local park safe for them to be gone without you
being there?
So it does really limit.
And again, it's it's putting that compassion just because you can let your kids go out
or in this case, me, I could let my kids go out and play and know they were safe in this
area that doesn't apply to other kids in other cities.
Yeah, and you know, it's like it's weird.
So here I live, you know, I probably live a mile down the street from a park that I
used to go to when I was younger and we played basketball, but getting older and realizing,
you know, how much crime happens at that park.
Like there has been, you know, there's been homicides there.
There's been bad stuff there to where it's like, I don't want to take my daughter there.
And it's the closest park I have that I used to be at.
So it's it's like, how do you and you know, it's easier for some to say and do it.
But some people don't have the opportunity to be like, OK, well, I don't want my kids
to be over there.
Let me try to put them in a better situation.
And you know, some people can't do that or they don't have the resources.
You know, if you don't have a car, you can't you can't walk to a better place, you know,
or take the bus and then worry about like going from bus to bus and then just trying
to have the time to get back home.
So like I know for me, luckily, we kind of have a big, big yard where we can have like,
you know, the problem I had, I had too many dogs.
I had a bunch of like dog crap in the yard, but I've sectioned it off to where the kids
in the garden can kind of like a play outside without I was going to worry about that kind
of stuff.
But you know, the game plan, God willing, will be to move somewhere with, you know,
like over an acre or two and just, you know, not worry about your kids being outside and
make a play and do whatever and, you know, have have farm animals or two and just kind
of live off of that.
But it's hard to not everybody can do that.
And when you see it, you see like the people that grow up thinking, well, you know, my
family or my older brother was gangbanging someone's driving.
But what am I supposed to do?
Like, just because you're here doesn't mean you have to do that.
And there was times where I felt like when I worked in Cocoa, I would tell people, I
was a manager because you see you see what's going on.
You don't have to follow it because most of the crime I'd say I can't speak for like the
whole country, but I know like central Florida, mostly violent crimes and these gangs are
are like teenagers that are committing the crimes, you know, and it's the cycle.
Like it really shortens the life expectancy of these kids to where you're talking like
12 to 18.
And then, you know, you think some time will go by and, you know, it would get better.
But then, no, a newer, the younger siblings, the newer generation comes and it's boom,
12 to 18 year olds, you know, doing the same stuff again.
And one thing, you know, working where I'm at now, we have a good juvenile unit, youth
services unit where they keep tabs on these kids because summertime, it's pretty rough.
But you know, our our crime analysts, they do a good job of getting out the juvenile
home detention list every day.
And whoever is on a curfew or whoever is at home, like we try to check it every day because
if these kids, man, if they are, if they know you're not coming out there, they're going
to start doing bad stuff.
So I think if they get caught up and they want to get better, you got to hold them accountable.
And if you can keep to keep them accountable, you know, there's some that make it out and
they do good and there's some that don't.
But it's a real checks and balances system of like, you got to keep the kids to check.
We just said about some some, you know, improve some don't.
I think this is the problem that we see in a lot of initiatives that people will point
to the ones that didn't work.
They are not working rather than seeing all the ones where it did.
And I think this is what we need to kind of push back against in some of these more proactive,
you know, initiatives.
There's always going to be that naysayer and they may have a, you know, a reason for it
where they're going to benefit if it fails, but they're going to point to, oh, you see
that there was that killing over there.
So, yeah, but what about all the good you've done?
And the perfect example is food stamps, for example.
Yes, there are people that abuse that.
Yes, there are people that abuse, you know, government support.
And we've all been to the houses with the escalade out the front, you know, and then
a terrible conditions in the house.
But think about all the families that have got themselves back on their feet because
of these welfare programs.
When do you ever hear about that being highlighted?
You don't.
It's always the people that abuse it.
So, you know, that sounds like a great initiative alongside, you know, mentorship programs and,
you know, the P.A.L. and all these other groups that are out there trying to steer these young
boys and girls from a life of crime back to the life where most of us are fortunate to
have a fast track to.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, definitely.
It's that that mindset of if you could change the kids, you can make it.
You have a better outcome for the adults.
And what's that saying?
Is it easier to build up a young child than it is to repair a broken man?
That's a big one.
Absolutely.
Well, you mentioned about your current department.
So I've worked for four fire departments in the end.
And arguably, my second one was my dream department.
But it was my loyalty to my family after my my son's mother had him.
And then she wanted to move back to Florida to be close to family that took me away from
that.
And I was really chasing that same kind of dynamic ever since.
But it's heartbreaking when you hear first responders, then you know they're good first
responders and they're just so frustrated in where they're working at that time.
And I think one of the most powerful things is just hearing stories of people that said,
I just I just changed.
I just went to a different place.
You know, you know, the grass is always greener, maybe.
But you go to where it's it's nourished, at least talk to me about what made you change
from from the last one to this current one.
And then, you know, what was the kind of emotional response to that as well?
So so about after having our second kid.
And for me, I think it was my core values change.
And, you know, like you always try to hold everybody should have certain things that
they won't budge on.
Right.
Like so mine, you know, realizing my family is more important than than the job.
And I was already I was already kind of aware of that.
But after I got to realize spoken, ended up I was I was an agent.
And then I ended up going getting reassigned back to the road.
And, you know, just realizing coming home, you know, because at that point, I was like
a 30 mile drive getting back home, just realizing time that you could be missing with your kids
and your family.
And it ended up initially, I didn't think I was going to end up leaving.
But I had some friends that this current department, they're always telling me, I should come here.
And I was like, man, I'm not I just had a kid like I'm trying to figure out what my
next step is here at this agency and go from there.
And then, you know, they're like, hey, well, there's a new contract.
And so I started looking at the at this stage in my life, the retirement was more important
than, you know, like the the bells and whistles of like equipment, like a new car.
I don't really care about driving a new car.
I want to make sure I'm making good money and I got good benefits and I can retire good.
And the city retirement was a whole lot better than the county's retirement.
So then it just came down to crunching numbers of like, all right, if I jumped ship here,
we'll be able to retire at an early age or retirement age would be about the same.
But when you look at the percentage rate, it was a lot higher.
And being working in the city that I live in ended up being a major thing to where younger,
I used to think I don't want to, you know, arrest my neighbors, but then getting older,
it's like, OK, I need to be able to be close to my family if something needs to happen,
because as long as I've been doing this, I know somebody somewhere.
So even no matter where I worked, someone I went to school with somebody somewhere,
I met them, you know, some at some point.
So the biggest thing for me was being closer to home if and it's a good agency in regards to like,
if I need to run to the house and check on help the wife or something, you know,
there's not really any pushback on that.
And after, you know, talking to the people here before I came, there was a big focus on like mental health
and like making sure you're good in regards of like, OK, you just had an officer involved shooting,
you know, instead of just like making a t-shirt about it saying good job, go back to work.
The administration actually care to make sure you're good mentally to go back.
And I think I've never been involved in a shooting, but it was it was nice to see leadership care about that,
care about your family and make sure you're good.
Like even after my third child, my daughter was born, about every administrator, you know,
Carter texted me and said, Congrats. And I was like, wow, that's never happened before.
So, you know, that was that was a little nice thing to see.
And so I feel like for me, you know, retiring a little earlier and then just being some days,
it could be a five minute drive home at the end of the shift or 10 minute, you know, whatever,
even if I have to stay late for like a late call, it's still just that one,
that one hour a day that I could save by being here, it adds up and like being being present.
So, you know, when I realized my career goals are the same,
if I can accomplish the same career goals here that could at the other agency, you know,
that's the icing on the cake. But as far as everything else, you know, my family is good.
You know, it's easier for my wife, for me to work, work here.
And then I can see more, spend more time with my kids. So I think that's what kind of made it
a better for me coming here. So.
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's it.
The way I was talking to somebody the other day about this in the fire service,
what I saw is, you know, we all line up on that drill ground day one because we want to serve.
I mean, most of us, there might be some that purely doing it for the benefits,
but you're not going to last long or you're not going to be a good first responder, at least.
So, you know, that that burning desire to be a protector, to be someone who's there and someone's worst day.
But then as you get in and you get kind of beat down, I'm not being negative.
It's just, you know, the environment, especially in the fire service at the moment with the crazy hours that they work.
It tends to shift. And then, you know, before you know it, people are talking about drop and pensions and all this stuff.
And I think, you know, if if you're chasing that, the danger is that you miss the real currency,
which is time, time with your family.
You know, and I used to drive an hour and 15 each way to the station most of the time.
Yeah. Now that's, you know, every third day you do it.
But even so, I mean, that's still arguably three hours by the time you're getting everything in your car and getting there.
And it is a lot. And I think this is a good thing about Covid is there's a lot of people that commuted to offices
to sit at computers doing what they could do from home.
So, you know, I hope there are people out there whose lives are so much better now doing the same job.
But they're with their kids most of the time.
Maybe they do a hybrid program and go to office once a week.
But I think that there's a there's a huge amount of value for that, like weighing up.
Oh, if I work there, I get a pay cut. Yeah.
But I mean, what what would that look like, though?
What would be the family dynamic if you were closer to home or, you know, or in some cases that mine,
the organization is so toxic that the payoff is simply that you're happy.
And when you come home and you see your kids, you're not, you know, ranting about what an asshole
your officer is, or whatever it is. So these are all important things.
But ultimately, if you're just focusing on money and benefits and you're missing
the real things that add value to your life, that can be dangerous.
Yeah. And, you know, like the I'm grateful for the time I spent, you know, at the other agency.
And there's a lot of good people there. And I met a lot of people over there.
Like, it's time to receive them on like an agency assist call.
And it's like, you know, seeing like a cousin or a family member, you know.
But like, I realize what works for me is being where I'm at.
And I used to I used to think, you know, people that would, you know, kind of jump agencies like this.
Where's like, I can just chase the money. But I realize I'm chasing time and the ability to buy.
I can buy back my time in the future, you know, using using pretty much my my my sick leave hours and stuff like that.
So it wouldn't even come out of pocket.
So I think that was another thing that was OK.
I can, you know, I can still retire and get my time back instead of, you know, trying to work X amount just to end up retiring at a later age.
So it was a big factor of just just being home and, you know, accomplishing the same.
I'm doing the same job, you know, but I can be home and be close to the kids.
And and I think just that little 30 minutes here and there a day of getting home earlier,
it really adds up into like hours that you're missing out on.
And like you said, what our 15 minute drive, I couldn't have.
That'd be tough for me driving from down here up to like West Cocoa, you know, 45 minutes coming home.
It's like by the time you get home, it's bedtime.
I remember when I used to I was a field training officer and I was training this one kid and we had a late call.
We were packaging evidence and he just he kept messing up.
You know, just learning. And I told him, I said, hey, man, like your perspective of this is, you know, you're you're learning this.
But mine is like, look, we're we're messing something up.
And now my kids go into bed and I'm not going to see my kid tonight.
Like and and that was definitely like one of those moments for me where I'm like, I need to I need to be home.
I can get home. Like when I'm like I'm learning how to kind of be where my feet's at.
Like when I work, you know, I'm at work and when I'm home and home, you know.
So it's like once that when I clock out, like I'm out and I clock in, like, you know, let's let's do some work.
You know, let's let's try to make a difference, like whatever the agency needs.
I try to be that, you know, like right now we're just a little a little short staff.
So kind of busy. So it's like, all right, we got to focus on handling calls and take care of your own.
And then, you know, once you know, Manning gets up and it's like, all right, let's be more proactive.
Let's put some more people in jail. Let's kind of, you know, do some stuff.
But when I'm home, it's just like another I call like another job where some days you feel like you clock out and you come home, you clock in.
Or it's like, I can help the baby get dinner going, you know, get the kids to bed and then just, you know, on to the next day.
But you try to I think getting home earlier for me kind of helps me not just go through the motions of when I'm here and it kind of helps me enjoy it more.
And every once in a while, you know, I get time to talk to the wife and like recap, like, you know, how's the day been and stuff like that.
So those little moments are kind of big. And it makes me like appreciate being here, especially now with the third kid.
There's times where I'm like, I tell her, I said I couldn't imagine, you know, being a deputy and then having to, you know, come home and then deal with the two kids.
Like last night, I slept in the car with the with the newborn for like an hour last night because she couldn't stop crying.
I was trying to get her to go to sleep. I was literally in the garage in the car with the baby.
And then 3 a.m. comes and then the one year old starts crying.
So then I was like, OK, here's got to swap that out.
So definitely for me is a good mixture of family and work, work life balance.
And this place gives gives me the best option to do that.
Well, flipping it to the agency side as well.
This is what's not appreciated when it comes to mandatory overtime.
You know, people like, oh, we'll just get them to stay.
You have literally snatched that person from their family for another 12 hours or 24 hours, whatever it is or more.
And you just, you know, you just clicked a button on a mouse and you're like, well, gearing's working now.
Well, it might not. It might forget if it's even a birthday, which has happened, too.
But, you know, it's it's a day where a child needs his mother or father to be home.
And you've just said they can't. You know, and I think that's inexcusable.
When there's a hurricane bearing down, when there's some major event,
then, of course, that's when we tell our loved ones, hey, I have to go.
This is important. But to rely on that day in, day out, year in, year out, I think is fucking disgusting.
Yeah. I mean, you gave me PTSD when you said mandatory overtime, man, because there was, you know, in the past, where I used to work,
you would you would hear it such to be a night shift about five thirty in the morning comes and they say we need one to hold advised by seniority.
And if you're the lowest man on the pole, you know, you're holding those like those days.
Those those are tough to where now you're working 14, 16 hour days.
And there are times I was driving home on 95 and I'd fall asleep, you know, miss the exit.
And thank God I didn't get an accident.
But there was many times where I passed my exit or I'd get to the driveway and I'm sleeping in the driveway and just like tired.
And that's one of the things you touched on before, like sleep deprivation.
I that that is that's real. Like your body.
I mean, I was already if working night shift and like taking calls at night,
statistically proven, it's your immune system gets weaker, you know, work a night shift.
So you're already kind of you're kind of like, you know, lagging and dragging.
You're relying on more caffeine than you normally would.
But if you can get, you know, seven hours sleep like right now, on average, for me, I'll get about five, six.
And, you know, that's good. But if I on my first day off, I get eight.
I got to feel recharged. Now, it's just like imagine if you're running on three hours of sleep, four hours of sleep,
you're not going to be your best self. And the mandatory overtime, it's all it does is just like fill that number of like, all right.
Well, we have we have the minimum working, but look at the minimum working.
They're all, you know, they're all tired making, you know, poor decisions like they're going to they're going to get hurt.
You know, you got to get hurt going to work fatigued.
And our jobs is not something where you can kind of go in there like lacking on a day on a day like that.
So when I work for Anaheim, I was just thinking when you were talking, I think my base was fifty six.
It might have been a little bit higher, like 60, but I'm pretty sure fifty six rings a bell.
But anyway, we have mandatory and it was it was the first six months we were immune because we were, you know,
new probes in the second six months when you were in the meat grinder.
The first year I made one hundred thousand dollars.
So that was mandatory overtime. But here's what happens then.
Then journalists research firefighter or police officers salaries and like they're making all this money.
No one ever tells them that that's because they were told they couldn't go home.
They didn't want to make that much money. You know, I mean, I didn't want to be away.
And at the time, it was just me. It was no no kids involved. So it wasn't as bad.
But if you think about it, I mean, add in children, that's I mean,
weeks and weeks that year that you didn't get to go home, you know, so this is what so.
So then they use those numbers against us.
I say, oh, they're, you know, they're they're earning all this.
It's like, no, you know, they're not. That's all overtime.
That's a 56 hour week.
That's, you know, almost two full work days more than you fucking work.
And then we're told we can't go home for another day.
That's why those numbers look high.
But if you boil that down to 40 hours, no, they're not earning a lot of money.
But you imagine in a grocery store or, you know, a butcher shop or whatever.
And they're like, Steve, you got to stay another week, basically another, you know,
because 80 hours, one overtime in the fire service, one mandatory overtime.
You've got to stay another entire week this week.
They'd be like, you've lost your fucking mind and throw your apron at you and they're out.
You know, so this is what people got to understand again with that currency is,
yes, there's times that we need to be there, but money is not the be all and end all time with our loved ones is.
Yeah. And I've seen I know you I think you talked about it before.
There's some some departments, they're changing the work schedule now, where it's like, what is it?
They were like one day on and they got like two or three off like the.
Yeah, that seems I mean, I feel like that'd be a lot better.
Like, yeah, that's still 42 hours a week.
Yeah. And we're in law enforcement like the normal shift, at least like in Florida, is you work.
You'd have three on and two off and like two on three offer.
Yeah, something like that. I haven't worked in a little bit.
But now where I work now, they're we're a little different.
And I like it because you have one week.
So one week you work four days and then and then you're off three and then the next week you work three days and you're off four.
So you have four days off every two weeks.
And that's like, no, you know, you're not burning any time.
You can you can plan family stuff around that.
It's nice to always have a minimum of three days off.
You know, if we have training and like it'll fall on the fourth day off.
But having three days off minimum a week is like it's great.
And then the four days like we've we've had vacations, like we went up to St.
Augustine and back without having to burn any any time is nice.
Like you can plan plan around that better because it all ends up because I mean, we end up working with 14, 15 days a month.
And that's the same as that other schedule. But the other schedule you're working every other weekend.
And instead of here, you're working one month, you'll work Monday to Wednesday or Thursday.
And then the next month you work Thursday to Sunday or Friday to Sunday.
And it's really it's a nice it's a nice break.
Are they tens or 12s that you work at 12?
So you get one one eight hour day where you come in and I've had a they try to even if you're short, they still try to, you know,
you have the option. So if you want to work the overtime or not, but they still try to look out for you, make sure you have that one day.
Yeah. So that averages to a 40 hour week.
Then have I got that right? Yeah. Yeah. So we made our two weeks.
So yeah, yeah, it's crazy. So, you know, and then the fire service is working 56 and no one seems to want to fix it,
which is why I'm beating this fucking drum as loud as I can.
All right. Well, then shifting, I want to get to the marathon just before we do.
When we go around to the kind of origin story of your journey into law enforcement,
you know, there was a SWAT, you know, communication overall where a decision was made, the wrong person was killed and that was your mother.
Talk to me about your journey into SWAT.
Are you still pursuing that? And if so, where are you at that point?
I still the game plan. You know, so I've been on this.
We had that child fear, but I ended up I got covered in the last go around.
So I didn't make it past the assessments here, but that's still a career goal.
You know, I think if this is all said and done and I never get on the SWAT team, I feel like I was just a fat piece of shit that just never put in the work.
So I think it's still a career goal of mine, you know, because I did I did see and see how some negotiations I did that before.
And I feel like later on when I get older, I get back into that after I can make the SWAT team, you know, do that for a while.
And once I get over the transition over to that. So it's still still a goal.
You know, I still we have a great team here. It seems they care about it.
It's nice when you have teams that have a standard, when you have some agencies, you know, they don't have a standard and some have it.
And you respect the ones that do. And it's like, OK, here's the standard. They're not going to fold.
And you got to be able to meet the standard. So it's like, all right, I need to get in better shape.
And we've got to keep putting in the work. So I couldn't agree more.
Yeah. Yeah. It inspires the good candidates then rather than just inviting everyone in.
Yeah, because once you let everyone in, then it's like, OK, well, then what kind of team do we have?
You know, yeah. And again, is a mistake going to be made with the costs, you know, a family, their mother? Yeah.
Yeah. And I'm not saying that was the case in this particular one, but I just had a couple of British armed police officers on.
And they were talking about this. No one.
They see no one's volunteering to join the armed unit now, because every time there's an officer involved shooting, their legs are cut from under them.
You know, and they're justified shootings. I mean, it's horrendous.
And again, it goes back to how did that particular criminal get into that point from a young child to where they are now that put them in that position?
But and so they answer they're like, if they're not careful, then they're going to force everyone in the UK to carry a gun.
So then you have the ones that should be carrying and the ones that shouldn't be carrying or with a gun on their side.
And that's a very, very dangerous place.
So what's the what's the number on that? Because I remember a while back, I met a person that was from from the UK.
And she she was like, you have a gun on you. And I'm like, yeah, I'm a cop.
She's like, oh, they all don't have one over there. And that was the first time I learned that.
I didn't know it was like they have some trained.
So, I mean, I imagine it's pretty a big agency.
But like, is it kind of like where we have like, you know, like a SWAT team and like a critical response team would be like the guys that have the guns and then over there?
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
I think there's different acronyms, but yeah, the the armed the police firearm unit.
I forget. But anyway, but I think that there's only it was a few thousand.
I forget if it was four or more than that.
But there would be 33 armed with very little training if it went to the other way.
And I think he said that usually is about 250 applicants.
And I think this is probably London, so the Metropolitan Police for the armed unit.
And the last go around, they had six people apply.
So circling around what we're talking about recruitment, you know, if you if you betray your law enforcement community.
And I say the same with the fire, if you don't support them and give them the workweek that allows them to thrive one day,
you won't have a law enforcement agency anymore or a fire department or EMS or dispatch or corrections.
And then what are you going to do? All those people are going to be running around criminalizing your community
and your house will be burning and no one's going to show up and your mother will die of a heart attack or whatever it is.
We're at that point now. The exciting thing is we can fix it.
We can fix it. These are all easy, preventable solutions.
And the money is even there because you bleed money doing it the wrong way.
But we need courageous leaders to step the fuck up and say enough is enough.
And that's what we're missing.
Yeah, I had a supervisor a while back, he would always say each city will get its police department that it deserves.
And if you have a city that doesn't support you, it's going to it's hard to make the guys want to go out and risk their lives.
But luckily here where I'm at, it sounds like we have a great city council and a relationship between the city and the police department
and the fire to where we have the support and it's nice having the support to be able to like, hey, this is what we need to help with recruitment.
And we can get that. And it's definitely I think now the numbers are kind of going up,
but it's hard this day and age to find people that want to be cops or want to be firefighters.
And it's just trying to figure out how we can how can we get that.
And I know our recruiting team, she's been the main recruiter, she's been there forever.
And I remember it took me I told her I said, man, it took it took me about 10 years to finally come here because I tried to apply here before.
But I didn't pass on one of the like initial tests when I was younger and I've gone a different route.
So it it's definitely comes down to recruiting.
And then that, like you said, that tear of city support or county support in regards to getting the people what they need,
because they see that there's no support. And why would I come here?
You know, especially especially where it's like, OK, I'm risking my life.
You know, if we have a it's a high crime area and it's a dangerous city to where we need people, we need support.
Instead, you know, you have to worry about if I get into a shooting or if I fight a guy,
am I going to wake up the next day and find out city council thinks that was, you know,
it wasn't a justifiable use of force is stressful because because I don't want to get fired.
I don't want to get I don't want to lose my job. I got bills to pay.
You know, I got I got kids that need. So it's definitely it comes down to like this.
Like what that quote was, man, each city gets a police department it deserves.
So, yeah, well, I mean, the one conversation which we've touched on as well is how you know,
why are we making so many dangerous people in the first place through in our society?
But the other thing I've shared a post thing it was last week, we lost eight police officers in that one week.
I think today when I woke up to Polk County officers or intensive care after being shot by a sovereign citizen,
air quotes, piece of shit. And, you know, so it's, you know, it's terrifying.
I mean, you guys are in such a dangerous environment.
And one thing that really kind of springs to mind is Brendan Coates,
who was Orange County police officer that used to come to Station 50 all the time.
And he went out on a traffic stop and they found him shot to death with his taser deployed.
So he tried the less lethal force and it cost him his life.
You know, so this is a problem is that it's probably creating either, you know, in some areas,
more shootings because we're not holding training and fitness standards high.
But in other areas, officers are dying because they're second guessing themselves
on using the appropriate lethal force in that moment.
Yeah. And one thing I like about where I'm at now is our training unit, actually,
because we had this busy city and we've had some officer involved shootings to where
a training will come out and we kind of, you know, the training will be based upon something that we had.
And it's more involved, you know, they're more frequent.
I probably would like once a month or so they try to get something in or every two months or whatever.
But the resources that we have here, because, you know, one of the main ranges that are in the county is ours.
So we have access to the range to go train whenever we need to.
And this last training that we did, it was pretty it was a good training to where like, hey,
let's let's get some let's do some shooting where we elevate our heart rate.
You know, let's do some running, you know, some going over some obstacles and moving, running and shooting instead of just
line up on the target, hit, you know, hit the state qualifications and then check off and then, you know, say, all right,
you can go train, but, you know, we don't have time to schedule to come out to the range.
Instead, it's like, hey, it's here if you want to train, if, you know,
we can just clean up after yourself when you're done, if you need access to it, you can get access to it.
So I think that's it's nice seeing the training unit here focus on, hey,
these things are happening and we're not just worried about you passing a state qualification.
We need to make sure that, you know, if you're able to, can you pick up your zone partner and drag them into cover
and then go back onto the target and then run and then go shoot with the elevated heart rate?
Can you do that? Because if you've never done that and the first time you do it is at work where you're clocked in,
it's going to be tough, you know, so your body can't go where your mind hasn't been.
So like you always got to think about like, hey, this could happen.
Let's try to let's try to simulate that in training.
And it's nice to have people here that care about that.
Reminds me of a video I shared about six months ago, and it was a civilian who actually had a prior criminal record himself.
And an officer was shot. It was kind of like I think it was alongside like a semi or it's a big vehicle.
And this guy dragged him like he was in Call of Duty.
It was amazing. Like it was such an amazing drag.
You know, and this is someone who had been the other side of the law before, you know, but that's the thing.
If that guy can do it, then we sure as hell, you know, we're paid to do it.
So we should be able to do it. Yeah.
I know, especially I know you see it around where you're at.
It's been like a lot of jujitsu training and like advocates for like cops who and jujitsu.
And and like now I tell people, I mean, you got you got to look at somebody's ears before you just think you're going to fight somebody.
Yeah. You try going hands on and then this dude will friggin snap your neck.
And it's like, man, you got to you got to you can't just say, you know, I'm going to shoot or you don't know how to go hands on.
But, you know, not just fistfight.
So it's definitely growing because I've seen I don't know if you saw the video where I think it was like a high school.
There was like a melee at a high school and this kid, he he had like a wrestling background and friggin took down the cop.
Like he took him down and was like, OK, like we need to you need to make sure that you're not in that situation
where you're getting taken down by these younger people that know the skills that you don't know.
That's terrifying. Anyone has actually been in wrestling or you just so you realize how humbling it is when someone,
you know, 50 pounds lighter than you ragdolls you like, oh, shit.
Yeah, this is not good. Yeah.
All right. Well, then one more area when we're into fitness, talk to me about training for a marathon.
So so this this year I signed up for my first full marathon in November.
And for the past six years now, when I so what got me into running,
there was a walking step challenge at my old agency.
And it was like they said the first top 10 or top five would get like a free entry into a Space Coast half marathon.
So it was just it was a fun thing to do, try to get your steps in with the coworkers.
And I was like, all right, well, if I can, if I can get a free entry, I'll run it.
You know, ran ran my first half and I was like, OK, let me try to make this a regular thing.
So I've been running the half marathon for the past six years.
And then I started signing up for different ones and it was like, all right, let me I can do the half.
I know what it takes to do that and complete it, but let's try to challenge ourselves to do something harder, you know,
because like you I don't want to get older and get worse like the you know, you're getting better, you're getting worse.
So I was like, all right, let me let me do this hard thing because you can't you won't grow being comfortable.
And I felt comfortable always doing the half because I know like my time will go down.
And then my time kind of sits around the same as like a fat guy pace of like 13, 14 minute pace.
So I'm like, all right, let me let me do the full.
And I kept telling myself first it started off as for my birthday this year,
I'm going to try to run 20 miles on my birthday weekend.
So that'll be over the summer. So I was like, I don't do that.
And then I said, all right, let me do the full and finally sign up for the full.
And I signed up for it. And then I went through the stages of like, all right, I paid for it.
I got to do it. I made a Facebook post and told everybody.
So now it's out there. I can't bitch up if I don't do it.
Then it's going to look like, you know, look like a loser and chicken out.
So so the game plan is to hit that and and just try to do it, man.
It's I'm running, running something that is a turn to a hobby, like kind of fitness.
I mean, you already know I had the garage gym.
It went it up about two years ago, actually ended up
getting the slab of concrete poured in the back for the patio.
And I just went with the babies.
I was trying to run out to the street, ended up putting my weights in the backyard on that patio.
So now it's a it's always out there.
And it's like the main thing is just trying to stay in shape, get in better shape, try to be.
The goal is to eventually, you know, kind of be more like a hybrid athlete of like,
I am strong, but I can still run and get that cardiovascular going.
Because I've always seen I mean, you see these videos of like 90 year olds
completing the Boston Marathon, and it's like it's like, man, like, how do you how do you do that?
Like, I want to be able to live that long.
And, you know, research research shows, you know, if you can run, get your heart rate going,
it can help extend your life.
So I'm just trying to live, live healthier and like live longer than whatever I would have been.
So that's the that's the big one.
Once doing that and then eventually when it's all said and done, like a life goal is to hit an ultra race or two.
So that'll be that'll be a fun one.
And I just want to like kind of be that role model of like showing my kids like, hey, you know,
you can do hard things because I always tell my daughter she could do hard things.
And and now I'm like, all right, let me just show her that I can still do do hard things and kind of be positive role model for him.
I love that that phrase.
I could choose your heart, meaning you can do hard things like, you know, meal prepping and, you know, exercising and taking the time to actually meditate,
which, again, in itself are not hard, but it's that discipline or you can let yourself be deconditioned and your hard things might be simply walking.
It might be remembering to take all your pills that you have to pop every day.
And when you talk about the running immediately in my mind, you know, just those videos of those overweight cops giving up on a foot pursuit within 15 seconds.
You know, now that might be someone who just, you know, shoplifted and it's not a big deal,
but it might also be someone running towards a preschool with a gun and you just allowed that slaughter to happen.
So I think more so in law enforcement outside of the military, that ability to run is really important.
It reminds me of a friend of mine, Casey, she's a canine handler and the way she described it,
she's like, I don't want to be at it. I don't try and catch them straight away.
I just keep pace initially because they go all out.
Then they hit their wall and she goes and then I and then I grab them.
So even just having that that calm whilst you're pursuing someone on foot is important.
So I can see how that would, you know, would factor in greatly to your journey into SWAT as well.
Yeah, and I had I had a moment where there was one time I was working a traffic detail
where we were just sitting at the railroad and I said to myself,
let me try to run from like a certain point in back in the middle of the night.
Nothing's happening. So I banged out a 5k in full full uniforms back and forth to see if I could do it.
And then I want to say like a month or two later, there was an accident across on across a bridge
and I couldn't get my car up to the accident on the other side.
So I literally had to like jog from one base of the bridge to up to the other.
And I remember like doing it and like I'm kind of running.
And then these some of the citizens stuck in their car, they're like clapping and cheering.
I'm like, don't clap and cheer. I'm about to die.
But you got your game face on.
I'm like, please stop. Please stop clapping.
But it was OK. I didn't I didn't wake up thinking I was going to have to do this.
But you never know where you have to fricking run up, run up a high incline.
Wearing your uniform is not easy.
So it's better to be able to know that you can do it, you know, running.
And then when the time comes, like I did this before, I can keep this pace till I get to where I need to get to.
Absolutely. Yeah.
I know that the converse of the police videos are those ones where the guy was,
you know, former NFL player or something and you want to
fricking hunt down and destroy someone who's running.
And that's that's the guy or girl that you want to have on your team. Yeah.
All right. Well, then I'm going to shift some closing questions before I let you go.
Same ones that I asked a couple of years ago.
So the first one, is there a book the last two or three years or books that you love to recommend?
It can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated.
So the main one that I've been doing, I try to do every day,
The Daily Dad by Ryan Holiday. It's a good it's it feels like every time I read,
I read that like one of the quotes from that day turns into something that I can practice with my kids.
And I tell my wife, like, it's always it's always something it's almost like it's like the same when you read the Bible,
like when you go to church and you hear, you know, the pastor or something that reaches out where it's like, oh, man,
I feel like they're talking to me today. And it's the same. It's the same with that quote where it's like, oh, man,
I feel like I feel like I could have used that in a certain moment of like
how to like interact with my kids, like something with anger or something, you know, just something with wisdom.
So that's the main one. The Daily Dad, Ryan Holiday.
Another one. I got the book. I did the audio book, though. Eric Thomas, you owe you.
That's another good like a motivational, like self-help book in regards to like, you know,
just kind of being the confidence and stepping into who you are and like, you know,
trying to push forward and be your true authentic self.
And I think the last couple of years, one of that one of those things was helped me was like listening to him.
He's a motivational speaker. And that kind of helped me like learn to just be your true authentic self.
And like the energy is real, man. Like it really whoever you are kind of draws,
it draws you to to reach out to other people.
I feel like maybe me. I mean, it got it drew us together to this.
You know, it's kind of helped me ended up like I have a contact in like the law enforcement teaching realm
to where anytime there's a possible negotiations course, I guess speak in that class because, you know,
and it's funny because I went from one day I'm taking the class and then I see the instructor doing a PowerPoint.
I see my mom's obituary photo in the PowerPoint to now I'm in the class with a PowerPoint kind of talking about what happened.
You know, another one, one that I'm still reading is David Gargan's new book, Never Finish.
So that one is just kind of it's a second book.
It's a good book on like I think the main thing kind of goes to is like, don't don't rest on like your laurels.
You know, like, yeah, you did this before, like you did something hard, but you can't just go around saying,
oh, yeah, I ran a I ran a marathon or I did I did for him.
Like, you know, Navy SEALs and all that shit.
Like, you can't just go around to act like just because you did something two years ago doesn't mean you're still the same person you are.
You got to put in the work every time.
So for me, it was like, all right, let me because the one thing he had talked about was some people only rise to the occasion when there's like a goal.
So like signing up for a race.
But who are you when you're not signing up for a race?
So for me, it was like, I will my birthday is coming up.
Let me try to bang out a 20 mile on my birthday.
Let me make own personal goals instead of just making it based on a risk reward thing.
Like, who are you without without the the the carrot at the end of the race?
So I think that's a big one that I like.
I still reading that now.
Another one that it was audiobook.
I don't know if you ever heard the term a guy.
Yes, you do.
Yeah, the the guy is like kind of I forgot who wrote it, but I was listening to it on the audiobook.
And that one was a big one where it's a mixture of finding out.
So doing what you love, doing what you're good at and doing something you can be paid for
and then doing what the world needs is like if you can find out what that is for you
and I kind of make it work.
I think that's one of those things where I'm I'm trying to search for now and doing stuff like this
kind of makes me feel like it's in that right path.
You know, like just that that wellness community of like reaching out and helping people
and on top of like being a cop and then speaking on it while I'm at work is a nice.
It's like, all right, I like doing this.
And, you know, if I can make money doing this and help people like I can I feel like I'm doing my purpose in the world.
So those are the main ones.
Brilliant. Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.
There's so much in Japanese philosophy that I think is so pertinent to a lot of us here in the West.
All right. What about a film or documentary that you love?
I mean, right now, film, documentary that I love, I was trying to get into Shogun, but I don't know if you watch it yet on FX.
It was one of my favorite books.
I think I've got the very last episode to watch and then I'm done.
But I loved it apart from the guy that played the the Englishman for some reason.
It almost seems like too much of a buffoon.
And I don't remember him being like that in the book.
But I mean, no disrespect to the actor.
Obviously, that's the way that they asked him to play it.
But apart from that, I mean, I adore that shows.
They're so well done.
Yeah, it's nice.
I know my wife, she doesn't want to watch things that are stressful right now.
So like I got to watch it when she's asleep.
But that's the main one I was trying to get into right now.
But other than that, I'm just watching like random shit that she watches.
We've been binge watching Hoarders.
Like you see that every day in real life, don't you?
Yeah. And I tell her, I tell her, I was like, oh, man, this house reminds me of the movie.
Oh, man, this house reminds me of this house at work.
And it's funny because like, you know, right now with all the kids, we're just trying to
try to navigate having three kids and keeping the house clean.
So she's like, I watch Hoarders and make myself feel better.
I'm like, yeah, you can do that.
So brilliant.
All right. Well, then the next question, is there a person that you'd recommend to come
on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders, military and associated
professions of the world?
I mean, I don't know if it's got to be the boy Doug, man.
I mean, did you had him on before?
I had him on, but it's been a long time and actually we need to circle around to another one.
Yeah, because I think, you know, he doesn't do it for the credit, man, what he does.
It's one of those things where you're put here for a reason and you're where you need to be
when you need to be there.
And anytime something happens and I got told people, I'm like, amen.
I know a guy and a great organization would survive first.
And they're like, yeah, he's already reached out and we talked to him and it's like, he's
just doing what he's supposed to do.
So I always recommend him.
Good people.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I just was talking to Raoul the other day.
Actually, it's related to my second book that I'm writing, kind of getting some of
the some of his perspective.
But I mean, you talk about SWAT and good shoots.
I mean, he's the one that killed the polshooter.
So, you know, that's when SWAT is trained correctly and has a group of men and women
that hold their standards very, very high.
It can also be the end of a massacre like that.
And his one of his races, if you ever get the chance, I know it's like normally in
January, they survive first 5k.
That's one of the ones I always try to do.
And then every time I always end up seeing Raoul and Doug and them, and it's always
nice seeing them out there.
I need to get to do that.
When I've actually been asked to run a marathon, I've never done a marathon in my life, but
with Bonnie, who was a she was a paramedic who was almost murdered.
I mean, she survived, but she was I think she was stabbed and shot.
It was horrendous, but I had a massive brain damage from it.
But she was I think she was initially going to try and do it standing.
But I think she's now going to do it in one of those chairs.
But she's asked me to come to I think it was Albuquerque in October, November.
So I'm not I haven't run much recently, so I'm going to have to get way ahead of me in
the training.
So I bought myself some sneakers.
So that was the first step.
I'm still in recovery mode.
So I got I'm hoping I'm hoping next week I start working out again like the balls have
been feeling a little better.
They're still kind of swollen right now.
But so kind of open.
It's been it's been about two weeks since I ran or worked out.
So I'm like I'm Jones and I'm trying to like make sure I don't eat too much like shit
because I can't can't work it out yet.
So just be careful with the cowbell twangs.
Yeah.
Hey, you know what?
You know, it's funny, man.
I'm so my son, he'll watch me work out and they say, man, those kids, man, they really
they they follow whatever you do, they do.
So he would always try to pick up my kettlebell and my dumbbell.
So my wife bought him these little styrofoam dumbbells and a styrofoam barbell.
And he'll literally pick it up and he'll go up.
Like it's awesome.
So I'm like, I need to make this kid strong, make him be like one of those little kids
that had a six pack.
Absolutely.
That's what I've said.
And I've just I've witnessed it being in CrossFit for 16 years.
And with my gym now, I think God, like more than 10 years, like you watch these children
grow up and my sons included.
And if that's what the norm is, then they like my sons off skin boarding today at the
beach.
You drove all the way to to St. Augustine just to go skin boarding.
No one's pushing him to do it.
My other son is into kind of weight lifting, bodybuilding now.
But the natural, thank God, not the stick a needle in your ass.
But, you know, but that's that's the thing.
So I always love watching these CrossFit kids because I've watched them grow up into,
you know, young adults and they, you know, it doesn't have to be CrossFit.
Soccer, whatever it is, gymnastics.
But they end up finding movement as normal.
So we were talking about the ability to make a difference in the world by you starting
to exercise.
You're setting the example for your children.
You can do that from an apartment in the Bronx.
You know, you can buy a cowbell and do some calisthenics and put a pull up bar in the
doorway and just make it normal or walk with your children.
But yeah, I mean, it's it's it's so evident like the children that grow up watching their
parents take ownership of their health and fitness end up doing the same almost every
single time.
Yeah, I mean, definitely.
There was a guy that I listened to and he was like talking about how, you know, you
could have you could go out to the gym every day and be consistent.
But if you want to affect the future generation, like the kids don't see that they just see
you leave and come back.
So he ended up he was like, I'm going to have a gym at the house, have a personal trainer
at the house.
And so they could see me work out and do everything here.
And when I first started getting little ways here and there, you know, I wouldn't I wasn't
even thinking that far ahead.
I just thought it was, you know, covered.
And I just wanted to work out at home.
And then now it turned into my daughter will do if she's out there once I make her do like
10 burpees, something like that.
And then like my little son, he'll he'll want to pick up a barbell.
So I was like, OK, let me I'm planting a seed of like making them do something that they
think is going to be the standard of like, all right, we're older.
We just work out.
We exercise.
So if I can do that to make them be better when they get older, it's like they're going
to be better off than where I'm at.
And I tell I tell my wife, like we're in we're in sewing season right now.
We're just we're in the trenches of two babies, kids.
There's been a lot of times where we've been telling our friends no to hanging out because
there's just a lot going on right now.
And I'll give I'll give a public service announcement of apologizing to everybody.
I said no to in the last 17 months of hanging out just because, you know, we were trying
to put in the work with the kids and just trying to make sure they're good when they
get older.
So it's it's definitely you know, it's hard, you know, choose your hard like the hard that
we're choosing is having three kids and a marriage and going through it together.
But it's we know later on, you know, when they get older, it'll be great to watch them
doing whatever they do and and then just having a bunch of grandkids and we could just chill
knowing that, you know, we we did a good job at raising them.
So I've said a lot recently because my son's 17 this year.
So I've got basically one more school year and he may he may be here for for a bit.
But it's basically my philosophy is you should be exhausted by the time they turn 18
because you've poured your heart and soul into them.
And then obviously, you know, they go into the world and, you know, the goal is to create
a mother Teresa, not a Hitler.
You know what I mean?
At the end of the day, to make it really black and white.
So hopefully you've made a good human being that can stand on their own two feet,
that will be a protector, that will do something good in the world.
And that takes effort.
I mean, it just does.
And then over and above shift work and all the other things that you do.
So, yeah, I mean, I commend you.
I mean, they they come first every single time.
Yeah, I appreciate it.
It's I know what I'm like I said with my daughter, like she's we've she's done so many things
that I've never done where it's like I just want her to, you know,
once she gets older, she can look back and I got to do everything I wanted to do
because I have my parents there to help support me.
Like, you know, frigging horseback riding.
Like, I don't know.
I don't know anything about that.
I'm asking I'm asking her trainer when she's out there.
I'm like, how do how do we do this?
Because like in the future, I want to get a farm.
So I'm like, you need to teach me how to do that.
But swimming and all this.
I still can't swim and frigging the downfall being a kid from New York,
like black don't float.
But my kids can swim.
Like if I'm in the pool, she's going to save me.
Like I need to I need to make sure I can do that.
But it's definitely I mean, you know, it's a lot of work just like putting into them,
just trying to give them trying to give them what you didn't have
and make sure, you know, they're better off than how you were.
I got called a racist once by one of my firefighter friends for
quoting something that is actually science.
When I was in sports science years ago, different ethnicities actually have slightly different
bone density and muscle mass.
And so, you know, if you have a postmenopausal white woman,
she will float like a piece of styrofoam on the water.
But if you have an athletic African American, you know, man or woman,
they are less likely to float.
I'm a sinker.
I don't know.
I've got, you know, dense bones myself.
Like people hate you got you got black ones.
Black ones. You got black.
So, you know, but there is actually an anatomical element to that as well,
you know, that you got to factor in.
But then, you know, you look at also storytelling.
I had a guy, Tom Hewitt, who has an organization in South Africa called
Surfers Not Street Children.
And a lot of the, you know, the whites in Africa, South Africa back then told them about,
you know, monsters and don't go in the ocean.
So culturally as well, they kept away from war.
So a lot of times they had to teach these young kids to swim first.
And then they taught them how to surf.
It was an amazing program.
Then they would sit on the beach.
And that's when the counseling would happen.
So these kids were street kids, you know, from losing their parents from AIDS and all
these other things.
So, yeah, I mean, that's that's what I'm trying to convince my wife, Becky,
can't swim, you know, still.
And it's like, yeah, it's one of those life skills along with running that,
you know, that we need.
So hopefully as your daughter gets better and better, that will get you,
you know, into the pool more too.
Yeah, I keep a life jacket in the patrol car, man.
At one time there was a call when I was working beach side,
it was possible, drowning at the beach.
And my lieutenant looks at me, he's like, Nick, what are you going to do?
I was like, I'm going to go out there and hopefully by the time I get to the water,
the firefighter should be there.
So that's the game plan.
So, but yeah, definitely the life goals, man, is when it's all said and done,
I want to be able to just retire, do what you do all day surf.
One of those things is a bucket list, same more sooner than later,
learn how to swim, surf and just do jujitsu and elk hunt in the mountains
and just enjoy life.
Like that's the retirement plan.
I already got it mapped out.
That's all I'm going to be doing.
Love it.
All right.
Well, for people listening, where are the best places to find you on social media or online?
Uh, I mean, best place is just, uh, Instagram, Nick 97 colt.
So that's really the main thing.
I feel like I need to make a website.
You got all these, uh, famous people out here, man.
I got a, I'm trying to, I'm following up Tulsi Gabbard.
This is a lot of pressure.
She was so good, man.
So good.
I listened to it.
It was a good episode.
And it was funny on the other night we were watching, um, the Avengers again.
And I was telling my wife, I was like, um, you know, Thanos Josh Brolin.
I'm like, it's like he was, he talked to James like no pressure for me, but
I was like, you for actually, yeah, no, he did.
I'm going to send him.
I'm almost done with my first draft of my second.
So once the editor is finished with that, then, uh, I'm going to be sending that to him too.
But, uh, yeah, cause my, he's talking about pipe dream.
My, my goal is to make the book into a TV show.
And, and finally put the modern firefighter story, but also the multi-generational trauma story and
the hope that you can grow from this, um, through this kind of three generational story that I've
written.
But, uh, so yeah, I'm probably speaking to Josh a lot more because he tends to kind of perk up
when it's art, like he's a phenomenal, phenomenal writer.
So that's normally when we talk the most.
Yeah, that'd be better than, um, those, some of those shows they make now with the rookie
and all that where it's like, it's like, ah, it's so funny, like kind of look at law enforcement
and firefighting, but it's like, can we get something a little bit more, uh, serious to
kind of deeper conversations, you know?
Yeah.
This is going to hit your balls as hard as you have a sex to me.
I promise you.
All right.
Well, Nate, I want to say thank you again.
I mean, the first time we had an amazing conversation and we were, you know, face to
face this time, obviously we're a little further apart, but, um, it's been another unique
perspective.
I mean, not only revisiting, you know, the, the story of your mother and talking about
her again, which I think is important, but also seeing where you've progressed to now.
And I think the value of what you have done to make sure that you're present with your
family, I think is so important.
So I want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time and coming on, coming
back on, should I say the behind the shield podcast?
Thank you, man.
I appreciate you having me.
That was always fun talking.