1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,440
This episode is sponsored by a company I've literally been using for over 15 years now and that is 511.

2
00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:13,040
Now my introduction to their products began when I started wearing 511 uniforms years ago for Anaheim Fire Department.

3
00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:18,600
And since then I have acquired a host of their backpacks and luggage which have literally been around the world with me.

4
00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:22,760
The backpack where I keep all my recording equipment is a 511 backpack.

5
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,000
And then most of my civilian gear, the clothes that I wear are also 511.

6
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,520
Now more recently they've actually branched out into the brick and mortar stores.

7
00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:36,360
So for example Gainesville where I do jiu-jitsu has a beautiful 511 store.

8
00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:39,240
So if you are a fire department, a law enforcement agency,

9
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:45,200
you now have access to an entire inventory of clothing and equipment in these 511 stores.

10
00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,540
Now I've talked about the range of shoes they have and how important

11
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,200
minimizing weight in our footwear is when it comes to our back health, knee health, etc.

12
00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:59,080
I've talked about their unique uniforms that are fitted for either male or female first responders.

13
00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,960
And then I want to highlight one new area, their CloudStrike packs.

14
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:08,360
For those of you who enjoy hiking, this would even be an application I believe for the wildland community.

15
00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:16,760
They've created an ultra light pack now with a hydration system built in for rucking, running or other long-distance events.

16
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,200
Now as always 511 is offering you, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast,

17
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,600
15% off every purchase that you make.

18
00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:33,000
So if you use the code SHIELD15, that's S-H-I-E-L-D-1-5 at 511tactical.com,

19
00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,280
you will get that 15% off every single time.

20
00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:41,440
So if you want to hear more about 511 and their origin story, go to episode

21
00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:47,520
338 of Behind the Shield podcast with their CEO Francisco Morales.

22
00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,600
Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing.

23
00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,840
And this week, it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show,

24
00:01:54,200 --> 00:02:00,040
veteran firefighter and the man behind Hard Knocks Sunday, Marcos Orozco.

25
00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:05,640
Now in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from his journey into the fire service,

26
00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:11,760
the power of pursuing the right department for you, his powerful sobriety story,

27
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,200
the importance of firefighter fitness, the smoke diver program,

28
00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:22,080
the smoke diver programs, his programming Hard Knocks hitters and so much more.

29
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,760
Now, before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week,

30
00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,560
please just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this on,

31
00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:34,040
subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

32
00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,560
Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast,

33
00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,000
therefore making it easier for others to find.

34
00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:46,000
And this is a free library of well over 900 episodes now.

35
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:51,840
So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories

36
00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:56,800
so I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

37
00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:20,840
So with that being said, I introduce to you Marcos Orozco. Enjoy.

38
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,840
Well, Marcos, I want to start by saying welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast today.

39
00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,600
Well, thanks. Thanks for having me, James. I really appreciate it, man.

40
00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,080
I never in a million years thought I'd be on your podcast.

41
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:36,080
You're kind of a big deal. So just being on here means a lot and I'm super humble.

42
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:37,480
Thank you, man. Appreciate the opportunity.

43
00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,480
It always makes me laugh when people say that because I'm literally just a firefighter

44
00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,920
that's got a microphone. That's it. No different than anyone else.

45
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,160
Come on, man. You got heavy hitters on here like Jock on the big names, right?

46
00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:49,800
So I'm just a nobody from nowhere.

47
00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,480
So yeah, we all are, though, if you look at it, we all are.

48
00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:54,760
All right. Well, then we're on planet Earth.

49
00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:56,960
We're finding you this afternoon.

50
00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:01,360
Yeah, I'm in Arvada, Colorado, just outside of Denver, Colorado today.

51
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,680
Brilliant. Well, I know there's a story how you got there and we'll get to that chronologically.

52
00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,120
Let's start at the very beginning then.

53
00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,440
So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic,

54
00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,480
what your parents did, how many siblings.

55
00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,360
Sure. Yeah. So I was actually born in El Paso, Texas.

56
00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,160
I have a younger brother who's two and a half years younger than me.

57
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,680
My parents got divorced when I was like four or five.

58
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,000
I ended up living with my dad.

59
00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,480
So I grew up with my dad and my brother ended up living with my mom and he grew up with her.

60
00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:31,880
And that's pretty much the gist of it.

61
00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,640
My dad worked all kinds of jobs growing up.

62
00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,080
He was born in Mexico.

63
00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:41,080
So just being a hard worker and I know that's where I got the work ethic from is him.

64
00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,280
He did all kinds of jobs, worked at a quality control

65
00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:50,560
in a place that made like all the meats for all the pizza places that we all know about and everything.

66
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:55,400
And then he kind of just ventured out on his own with an architect building houses, custom houses.

67
00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,120
And then he owned a business in Texas.

68
00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:00,840
They have state inspection where they inspect your vehicles.

69
00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:02,720
So he owns that still to this day.

70
00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:09,840
And my mom was a veterinarian and then she was a professor at colleges teaching like microbiology

71
00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:11,640
and that kind of stuff as well.

72
00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,240
So brilliant.

73
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,400
My dad was a veterinarian, a veterinary surgeon.

74
00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,440
Yeah. So I grew up around that myself.

75
00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,840
Was your mom from overseas as well initially?

76
00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,240
No, she was born in Texas also.

77
00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,840
Yeah. So like my grandparents are from Mexico.

78
00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:28,840
My great grandparents are from Mexico and then like my great, great, great grandparents

79
00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:30,840
on both sides came from Spain.

80
00:05:31,840 --> 00:05:32,840
I actually have a cool picture.

81
00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:38,440
My great grandfather on my dad's side, he fought against Pancho Villa back in the day.

82
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:43,040
And I still have this picture and it's an old timey like, I don't know,

83
00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:48,640
Model T car in the background and there's three guys and they have like the bullets across their chest

84
00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,640
and around their waist and they got like the sombreros and he's got crazy mustache.

85
00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,640
And basically they had stolen the vehicle from Pancho Villa that was loaded with guns and ammunition.

86
00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,040
And all three of these guys are just bullets out and guns everywhere.

87
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:01,640
So it's pretty, pretty cool picture.

88
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:02,840
It sounds amazing.

89
00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:05,040
What about your dad's immigration story?

90
00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,440
I mean, I always say this is this nation was built on immigration.

91
00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:09,640
Obviously, I'm from another country.

92
00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:15,640
Initially, everyone on this show obviously has roots in different places if they go far enough back.

93
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:20,840
But immigration has become kind of a dirty word, especially if you're talking about Mexico,

94
00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:24,040
the border, people spit that term out.

95
00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:30,640
But this country is full of people from that country that are literally some of the backbones of this nation.

96
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,640
So what was your dad's immigration story and how was he received early on?

97
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,240
I think like anything, I mean, I kind of interviewed him a few years back, right,

98
00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:40,440
and just kind of wanted to hear his story of things.

99
00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,240
And, you know, obviously he met resistance, right?

100
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,240
You know, being from Mexico and on all that stuff.

101
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,240
But, you know, he did it the right way, right?

102
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,040
He came over, he learned English, right?

103
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,440
And he became a U.S. citizen, right?

104
00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,040
And just just hard work.

105
00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,040
And he let pretty much his work speak for itself.

106
00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:01,040
But like anything, man, I mean, we we experience racism so much.

107
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,840
So I can't even imagine being born in 49 and growing up in that, you know,

108
00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:09,640
but obviously he overcame it and did well and didn't doesn't let it bother him.

109
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:15,440
What do you think is the kind of backstory, the root of that racism to this day

110
00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:23,040
when most of us were born into a generation where we weren't indoctrinated with hate

111
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,440
or we shouldn't have been indoctrinated with hate, maybe some of the chapters further back?

112
00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:31,440
Oh, man, that's a deep question, James.

113
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,240
Where does it come from?

114
00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,240
I honestly don't know.

115
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:40,240
Maybe fear of the unknown, not knowing about that culture of those people, right?

116
00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,440
And like you said earlier, like, I mean, you know, it's a stereotype, whatever.

117
00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,240
Mexicans are not known to be lazy, right?

118
00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,240
We're hard, hard ass workers, right?

119
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,240
You take us out of this country, things are going to fall apart.

120
00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:57,040
But I don't know where it comes from. And it's kind of sad, right? Not kind of.

121
00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:02,040
It is sad. And you think it would be getting better as we're moving further and further along.

122
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:07,040
But I feel like just the way this country is right now, everything is so divisive, right?

123
00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:11,040
If we can split people up and put them against each other.

124
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,040
I feel like it's it's easier for them to take over.

125
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,040
And I don't know what that means exactly.

126
00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,040
And I'm not trying to get them to take over.

127
00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:24,840
I don't know what that means exactly. And I'm not trying to get all like flat earth crazy or anything like that.

128
00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,640
Or conspiracy theories or anything like that.

129
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:31,240
But, you know, it's around us still to this day, for sure.

130
00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:36,840
I just had a guest on Darrell and Mon Jenkins, who he if you have watched the movie Skin,

131
00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:44,640
he was the black guy that helped one of the neo-Nazis escape that kind of gang life and get onto a normal life.

132
00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,440
And it was such an interesting conversation with him.

133
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,840
And he thinks obviously a little bit different than me in certain areas.

134
00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,840
However, I asked him at the end, you know, because we talked about this divisiveness,

135
00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:58,840
this deliberate kind of pigeonholing of people and setting them against each other.

136
00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:03,240
And I said, how bad is racism actually in this country?

137
00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,640
And he goes, it's nowhere near what people think.

138
00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:14,240
And the problem is, is that we keep giving the assholes a fucking microphone and allowing them to project like they talk for everyone.

139
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:20,840
And the sooner that we can kind of take that back and stop these extremists having such a loud voice,

140
00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,840
the sooner we'll realize that we're actually a lot more connected than we think.

141
00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,640
Yeah, I believe that. You know, it's always the negative ones that are loudest, right?

142
00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:33,240
Smallest percentage of the ones that are the loudest and they get all the air timer on the news.

143
00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,240
And plus, you know, that's what sells, right?

144
00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,040
Chaos and disgruntledness sells on the media.

145
00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:40,840
So that's a whole other thing, right?

146
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:46,640
Yeah, I don't understand how four assholes arguing on a television station keeps you glued to the screen personally.

147
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,040
But you do.

148
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:50,040
I don't even watch the news.

149
00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,040
The only time the news is on is at the fire station and that's literally it.

150
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:54,840
Absolutely. All right.

151
00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:59,040
Well, then you obviously, you know, fitness is such a nucleus of your world now.

152
00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:03,440
When you were in the school age, what were you playing and doing as far as sports and exercise?

153
00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:08,240
Yeah, so I grew up in Texas and anybody that knows anything about Texas, football is king, right?

154
00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,840
My dad wouldn't let me play football in like Peewee League.

155
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,040
So he said once you get into middle school, you could start.

156
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,040
So I started seventh grade.

157
00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:21,040
So I played football, played baseball and I ran track and that was throughout high school, right?

158
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:28,640
And then I ended up kind of switching gears and I just went only track and I ran track for my freshman year at Arizona State also.

159
00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:33,640
I always ask people that have done a multitude of sports, which by the way, I mean, we'll get into ex-phys in a little while.

160
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:44,440
But, you know, you listen to all the great coaches now, the multi-sport athlete is the way that you build a well-rounded healthy student athlete, not that specialization.

161
00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:54,440
When you look back now, what elements of the team sports and what elements of the individual sports factored into you being successful in the fire service?

162
00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,840
I mean, obviously playing in team sports is huge, right?

163
00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:02,440
In fire service, just learn how to get along with people from all sorts of walks of life, right?

164
00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,840
And just learning how to play as a team, as a unit, right?

165
00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:09,040
And that just translates right over to the fire service perfectly, right?

166
00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:17,440
Because we have a bunch of people from all different kinds of backgrounds and different life experiences and we have to learn how to get along with them and play well in our sandbox, right?

167
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:23,040
To do what we want to do and which is accomplish the goal and put the fire out or win the game or whatever it is, right?

168
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,640
So that was huge integral for me as far as that goes.

169
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:36,640
And as far as like the individual sport, I think that's definitely helped me with building that mental fortitude that I so rely on now

170
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:44,040
because I pretty much work out 99% of the time by myself in my garage, no music, just me and my thoughts.

171
00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:48,640
Yeah, we're on shift. We try to work out together and all that stuff or we'll get together, whatever.

172
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,440
But most of the time I'm working out by myself.

173
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:56,040
So I think that individualized sport helped me with that mental fortitude for sure.

174
00:11:56,040 --> 00:12:00,040
I watched my son run the mile that for the last two years in track.

175
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,840
And, you know, when I was looking at what I was doing at the time, which is jujitsu.

176
00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:11,040
And when you're doing martial arts and we talk about this before you hit record, your motivator is the other person trying to murder you.

177
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:12,440
So, you know what I mean?

178
00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:20,640
It's pretty apparent. But when you're just running and I always told my son how proud I was of him because he got to a five minute mile in those two years.

179
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,040
I'm like, I know how loud that voice is. It just says slow down.

180
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,240
We don't need to run as fast. I'm tired. My legs hurt. My lungs hurt.

181
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:36,640
And so, like you said, to create that resilience to push through it, even though everything about your physiology is telling you to stop.

182
00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:42,040
That's a different kind of motivation than me trying to stop someone choking me out, for example.

183
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:47,440
Yeah, for sure. And you have like, you know, like motivation, I always say, is fickle, right?

184
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,040
It comes and goes. You have to rely on that discipline, right?

185
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,840
What do you want to accomplish? You're going to have to sacrifice what you want now for what you want later, right?

186
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,440
And I think that individualized stuff helps with that, right?

187
00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,440
Because at any point you could quit. If I'm working out by myself, I could quit.

188
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,640
If you're running a mile, you could quit at any point. Doesn't matter, right?

189
00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:08,240
But just being disciplined and just, all right, this is what I set out to do.

190
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,840
That's what I'm going to do for sure.

191
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:16,440
I remember getting laughed at in the YMCA here in Ocala doing a CrossFit and I'd worked out with my crew in California.

192
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:17,640
That's who introduced me to it.

193
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:21,440
But then I come over to Florida and no one knows what CrossFit is.

194
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,040
And so these people are just looking at me like I'm a fucking lunatic.

195
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,840
But, you know, that was a beautiful thing as you, you were your own mate of motivator.

196
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:33,240
Years later, I went to an actual gym and then all I got to do is show up and everyone around me is working hard.

197
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,840
And the coach is, you know, screaming at you. And that's a whole different ball game.

198
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:43,240
But when, like you said, when it's just you and a workout and no one would notice if you quit or missed a set, whatever it was,

199
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,240
that's a different kind of standard that you hold yourself.

200
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:51,240
Yeah. And like going back to Jiu-Jitsu every time knowing you're going to get choked out a thousand times, right?

201
00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:56,640
Like nobody likes sucking at stuff and us definitely don't like sucking at stuff.

202
00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:02,840
But the thing that keeps us coming back is how do I figure this out so I don't suck as bad? Right.

203
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,940
And that's what keeps coming back and keeps coming back with Jiu-Jitsu like we're talking about earlier.

204
00:14:06,940 --> 00:14:10,440
Yeah. Get choked every single day by these nerd. I call them nerd assassins.

205
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:15,640
They look so unassuming. 150 pounds, whatever, you know, and they're just going to tune you up.

206
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,640
Yeah. Yeah. And that man ego inside is like, dude, that guy with the,

207
00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:26,440
this is I know is high at the moment and he's got, you know, ginger hair down to his ass and he murders me every single time.

208
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,640
Shout out to my friend Ryan.

209
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,640
Oh, there we go. All right. Keep doing it, Ryan.

210
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:38,240
Well, then what about career aspirations? Again, in the school age, what were you dreaming of becoming back then?

211
00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,940
Honestly, I wasn't even thinking about what I wanted to be when I grew up.

212
00:14:41,940 --> 00:14:46,440
I think I was just so involved with sports.

213
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,840
I don't know. I didn't like I don't know what I thought I was going to become.

214
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:51,640
And I knew I wasn't going to become a professional athlete.

215
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:58,040
I don't think I was, I guess, realistic enough to realize that.

216
00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,740
But I was just in the moment worried about sports. Right.

217
00:15:00,740 --> 00:15:04,040
And I thought I maybe wanted to be a doctor.

218
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:09,640
And then when I went to college, like, oh, maybe I'll do a physical therapy thing because I've been working out since I was 12 years old.

219
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:14,740
My dad made me a deal because he had gym membership and he would take me and we'd play racquetball or whatever.

220
00:15:14,740 --> 00:15:21,240
I really wanted a gym membership and I had all the cutouts of all these big time bodybuilders and all the workouts and stuff.

221
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,740
And he's like, well, I'll make you a deal. If you go every single day, I'll pay for it.

222
00:15:25,740 --> 00:15:32,440
And then when I told you mentioned earlier, I interviewed him a while back and he's like, you literally went every day.

223
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,340
He goes, sometimes I would take you there and you'd ride your bike back.

224
00:15:35,340 --> 00:15:38,640
Sometimes you would just ride your bike there, work out and ride your bike back.

225
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,740
And he's like, you never missed a day.

226
00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:46,340
So, yeah, again, I thank my dad for that. Just that work ethic and that discipline.

227
00:15:46,340 --> 00:15:48,940
Right. He made me a deal and I stuck to it.

228
00:15:48,940 --> 00:15:52,240
So, you know, it's kind of crazy looking back now.

229
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,740
Absolutely. I know we're going to talk about addiction and sobriety.

230
00:15:56,740 --> 00:16:06,140
So one of the things that's really kind of I've been educated on over the last seven plus years is the impact of our early life on some of our struggles.

231
00:16:06,140 --> 00:16:13,440
Maybe, you know, when we're either in uniform or we're older, at least when you look back now with this different lens that you have,

232
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:19,640
were there elements of your upbringing you think that contributed to struggling later in life?

233
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:24,840
Yeah, for sure. Right. Parents getting divorced at four or five years old.

234
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,740
My mom still to this day hates my dad with a passion.

235
00:16:28,740 --> 00:16:34,340
So that was not a good upbringing. Right. Splitting up siblings is never good.

236
00:16:34,340 --> 00:16:36,640
Right. I don't want to get too into that.

237
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,940
But yeah, that for sure messed me up finding out now.

238
00:16:39,940 --> 00:16:43,640
Right. Talking to people and getting talking to a counselor and stuff.

239
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:51,640
Yeah, for sure. And I'm sure at some point that triggered me into drinking how I was drinking for sure.

240
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,340
You know, but I don't I don't blame it. Everything on that.

241
00:16:54,340 --> 00:16:58,940
I'm sure it was a contributing factor. I obviously had choices every time I chose a drink.

242
00:16:58,940 --> 00:17:04,240
So I'll own up to that. Right. It wasn't anybody else's fault.

243
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,140
Yeah, I always say reasons, not excuses.

244
00:17:07,140 --> 00:17:09,640
You know, that doesn't doesn't mean that you excuse what happened.

245
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,140
But at the same time, if you don't acknowledge that it was a contributing factor,

246
00:17:13,140 --> 00:17:15,540
then that's actually a negative as well.

247
00:17:15,540 --> 00:17:21,140
Yeah, for sure. For sure. And then bartending doesn't help either.

248
00:17:21,140 --> 00:17:22,740
The whole another lifestyle.

249
00:17:22,740 --> 00:17:24,340
Well, talk to me about the college first.

250
00:17:24,340 --> 00:17:26,440
So you mentioned wanting to go into physical therapy.

251
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,840
Where did you find yourself? How far did you go on that journey?

252
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,440
So how I ended up at Arizona State because I grew up in Dallas, Fort Worth area.

253
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,640
I went to Graybond High School. I just want to get out of Texas.

254
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,540
You know, born and raised in Texas.

255
00:17:39,540 --> 00:17:42,340
I just wanted to get out, just go see the world or whatever. Right.

256
00:17:42,340 --> 00:17:44,640
My mom actually was living in Phoenix.

257
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,240
So I went to visit her in the summer, talked to the head coach there at track,

258
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,640
the track head coach, and we agreed, you know, did some stuff.

259
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,440
And he's like, all right, you can walk on and then depending on how you do, we'll give you a scholarship.

260
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,740
So that's how I ended up at Arizona State. Right.

261
00:17:58,740 --> 00:18:01,940
And so I wanted to be a physical therapist.

262
00:18:01,940 --> 00:18:08,340
So I thought I did end up graduating with a bachelor's degree in exercise science and kinesiology,

263
00:18:08,340 --> 00:18:10,840
which was kind of leading me to that physical therapy path.

264
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:15,140
And once I graduated, I didn't want to go to three years of grad school.

265
00:18:15,140 --> 00:18:22,940
And which is kind of funny hindsight now because I've gone away more schooling to become a fireman and all the classes and everything now.

266
00:18:22,940 --> 00:18:24,240
But I want to change it for the world.

267
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:29,840
So that's how I ended up not going to PT school after I graduated.

268
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:34,640
I moved to South Florida in 2003 and was there for 20 years.

269
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:41,840
What was your experience with the application of what you learned in college to the actual world of coaching and conditioning?

270
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,540
I did exercise physiology, sorry, exercise science sports.

271
00:18:45,540 --> 00:18:50,540
Let me start again. Sports science and fitness evaluation in university in London.

272
00:18:50,540 --> 00:18:53,440
And then at UF here, I did exercise physiology.

273
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,040
And so I had two different establishments, two different kind of perspectives.

274
00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:04,940
But what I personally found is it was uber academic and based pretty much on testing athletes in the lab.

275
00:19:04,940 --> 00:19:12,840
So after four years, it really didn't help me at all when I became a coach or further my skills as an athlete.

276
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:14,340
What was your perspective?

277
00:19:14,340 --> 00:19:22,540
Obviously, you've been an athlete to this date with the actual knowledge that you gained in that establishment and the application in the real world.

278
00:19:22,540 --> 00:19:26,740
I agree with you 100 percent is I feel like there's a big disconnect, right?

279
00:19:26,740 --> 00:19:30,940
With academics and then the practical side of stuff, 100 percent, right?

280
00:19:30,940 --> 00:19:33,840
Yeah, you learn all like I mean, you go down to the cellular level.

281
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,040
You're learning about the Krebs cycle and, you know, ATP and all that's great.

282
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:42,540
Awesome. But how does that translate and how do you put that into practice on athletes?

283
00:19:42,540 --> 00:19:48,640
Right. And then especially what we do being in the fire service, that's a whole different ballgame.

284
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:58,840
You could be the best strength and conditioning coach for NFL, but that doesn't translate to you being a good strength and conditioning coach for firemen or military or police or anything.

285
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,440
Right. So, yeah, I agree with you 100 percent.

286
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,640
Huge disconnect on that for sure.

287
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,240
Yeah. Bottom line.

288
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,840
So how did you find yourself in the world of bartending after you came out of school?

289
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:16,740
Well, I was bartending in school because I grew up waiting tables in high school and stuff like that.

290
00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:21,140
And then once I was old enough, I wanted to be able to bartend because I didn't want to deal with food.

291
00:20:21,140 --> 00:20:27,640
So I started bartending in college at Arizona State and just moved out to South Beach and then started bartending in South Beach.

292
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:36,540
And that's a whole another world. And that just wraps you in and the bright lights and South Beach 2003 is way different than it is now.

293
00:20:36,540 --> 00:20:39,440
Way cooler back then. And it just gets roped up into that.

294
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,340
And like I say, it's a whole lifestyle, man. You got cash at your fingertips.

295
00:20:43,340 --> 00:20:45,040
Oh, I blow this money sign. No big deal.

296
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:51,940
I'll make it tomorrow. And you just up all night, sleep all day, drinking before work, drinking out work, drinking after work.

297
00:20:51,940 --> 00:20:58,140
You know, it was just the whole cyclical cycle of not conducive to being a productive human being.

298
00:20:58,140 --> 00:21:03,140
Basically, I had a lot of fun, but, you know, it wasn't productive.

299
00:21:03,140 --> 00:21:07,140
I'll never forget. I went and worked down there after fire school.

300
00:21:07,140 --> 00:21:09,040
So I moved from Orlando down to South Florida.

301
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,840
My ex wanted to be a famous performer of some sort.

302
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,440
So she thought just move geographically and then she'll get discovered anyway, I digress.

303
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,940
But so I ended up getting hired by Hialeah.

304
00:21:20,940 --> 00:21:27,440
But before I did, I worked for Boucher Brothers and they were the ones that put up all those blue umbrellas and sunbeds all the way down the beach.

305
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:35,140
There's one one company that I got kind of rumblings that maybe there was some organized stuff behind that whole thing.

306
00:21:35,140 --> 00:21:39,440
Yeah, probably. But I remember, though, because now I'm working in the hotels as well.

307
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:46,740
So to me, the South Beach was such a facade like that ocean drive was beautiful.

308
00:21:46,740 --> 00:21:50,140
You saw, you know, good looking people and expensive cars.

309
00:21:50,140 --> 00:21:56,040
But once you're there for a while, like, you know, Washington smell like, you know, garbage, you know what I mean?

310
00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:00,040
And then you find out a lot of these cars that actually rented from a rental place.

311
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:05,240
And so to me, the impression I got that it was very, very superficial and plastic.

312
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,440
What was your experience because you were actually there in a way more than I was?

313
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,640
Yeah, 100 percent. And, you know, you're on vacation.

314
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,540
You can pretend to be anything you want to be. Right.

315
00:22:13,540 --> 00:22:19,840
So you're save up for the year and you go rent the Lambo for a day and you're taking pictures and driving it up and down ocean drive,

316
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:25,540
like you said, super, super materialistic and super fake South Beach.

317
00:22:25,540 --> 00:22:29,940
Obviously. I mean, yeah. And it just got grunger and grunger as time went on.

318
00:22:29,940 --> 00:22:33,540
And now it's it's so bad, like nobody wants to be in there.

319
00:22:33,540 --> 00:22:36,840
You know, yeah. Traffic's a nightmare even getting there these days, too.

320
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,640
Yeah. Yeah. All right.

321
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:46,240
So then as you are bartending, was that when you found yourself kind of spiraling with the drinking as well?

322
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:51,940
Yeah. I mean, like I said, I was literally drinking every day before work, during work, after work,

323
00:22:51,940 --> 00:22:57,740
on my days off with your bartender buddies and you go see your bartender and it's working your friends and yeah.

324
00:22:57,740 --> 00:23:02,640
And it went on for a while. Even while I was in the fire service, I was drinking for a while in the fire service.

325
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:08,040
And it goes back to like I got a DUI in Arizona in college.

326
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,940
You know, back then, there's not again, not an excuse.

327
00:23:10,940 --> 00:23:14,840
There's no Uber like it is today. If you get a DUI nowadays, I feel like you're just an idiot.

328
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:19,140
Right. There's Ubers and lifts and there's no reason for you to be driving.

329
00:23:19,140 --> 00:23:23,640
But yeah, I got a DUI back in the day and that pretty much didn't even slow me down.

330
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:28,440
Like so I was started back on that path. And I mean, we can get into it whenever.

331
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:35,540
But yeah, I was basically back to drinking and driving and I had to make a decision at one point just to stop drinking.

332
00:23:35,540 --> 00:23:39,440
Well, let's walk through your journey into the fire service then.

333
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,940
What made you aware of that profession? What made you think about that?

334
00:23:43,940 --> 00:23:47,840
And then talk to me about your initial on ramp to your first department.

335
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:55,740
Sure. So growing up, my mom's best friend's husband was a fireman and they had a daughter that was about my age.

336
00:23:55,740 --> 00:24:00,740
So we were always kind of hanging out in El Paso whenever we'd go there because both my grandparents lived in El Paso.

337
00:24:00,740 --> 00:24:04,240
So we'd be there for Christmas, Thanksgiving every year.

338
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:09,940
So that was the first time I've seen anybody that was a fireman and you that was my first basically impact of that.

339
00:24:09,940 --> 00:24:14,040
And I was like, oh, that's pretty cool, man. Yeah, but he shows up and everybody's happy.

340
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:21,240
Right. He's got a cool truck. And, you know, and then just growing up, you know, same same kind of cliche stuff.

341
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,640
You see firemen, everybody's happy, whatever. Right.

342
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,140
And that was my initial introduction to being a fireman.

343
00:24:26,140 --> 00:24:29,940
But I didn't have a burning passion to be a fireman growing up or anything like that.

344
00:24:29,940 --> 00:24:32,840
No family member was a fireman or anything.

345
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:40,940
And then just bartending in South Beach, like I said, I was bartending for probably three years in South Beach before I was like, man,

346
00:24:40,940 --> 00:24:46,240
I need to do something with my life before I become that 40 something year old bartender at the club.

347
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:53,040
That's not cool. Right. So I just kind of started doing some research and I was like, you know, firemen.

348
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,440
You know, that was my my she with my buddies.

349
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:03,340
Dad was a fireman and it was cool. And, you know, they they usually look fit for the most part ish stuff like that.

350
00:25:03,340 --> 00:25:09,040
So I kind of started looking into it. And in Florida, as you know, we have to put ourselves to the fire school,

351
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,240
pay for that ourselves and then go to EMT school ourselves. Then you're eligible to get hired.

352
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:18,840
Right. So I put an application to Miami Dade College Fire Academy and I got in.

353
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,540
So I went started there in 2006. I went part time because I was like,

354
00:25:23,540 --> 00:25:29,140
I know I'm not going to be able to get up five days a week and be there early because I know you could fail out on demerits for being late.

355
00:25:29,140 --> 00:25:33,440
And I was still bartending. So I was like, I'm going to go the part time route.

356
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:39,340
And during fire came, I would still bartend or go out Friday night, show up to Academy on Saturday, hung over.

357
00:25:39,340 --> 00:25:43,440
So I was still like kind of start that down road spiral. Right.

358
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:50,840
Graduated Fire Academy. Some complications happen, too, because of my DUI in Arizona.

359
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:58,140
I couldn't test with my class. So I actually had to go to Ocala to test, which in Florida,

360
00:25:58,140 --> 00:26:01,540
Ocala is the Florida State Fire College. I know, you know that.

361
00:26:01,540 --> 00:26:07,940
But so I wasn't able to test my class. I had to go test by myself, which was a whole ordeal anyway.

362
00:26:07,940 --> 00:26:14,140
And then graduated, got my cert for the state. And then I went to EMT school that fall,

363
00:26:14,140 --> 00:26:17,640
what Miami Dade College EMT school. And I got hired.

364
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,040
I started paramedic school in January of 07 because in Florida, as you know,

365
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,940
everybody has to be a medic to get hired pretty much, not by choice.

366
00:26:24,940 --> 00:26:30,740
And I got hired with my first department down in the Keys January of 08.

367
00:26:30,740 --> 00:26:34,940
Yeah. And that's when basically as we all know, nobody was hiring in 08 for a while.

368
00:26:34,940 --> 00:26:38,940
Like that was the so first place I applied, first place that hired me.

369
00:26:38,940 --> 00:26:41,940
And then I was there for eight years.

370
00:26:41,940 --> 00:26:45,540
When you were at Miami Dade, was Scott Disbrow, one of your instructors?

371
00:26:45,540 --> 00:26:49,440
Yeah. So I always forget you worked at Hylia and then I remember it.

372
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,640
And I'm like, yeah, all my instructors were Hylia guys. Scott Disbrow was still talking to him.

373
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,540
I'd see him every once in a while when I was still teaching before I moved.

374
00:26:56,540 --> 00:27:01,740
All the Hylia guys like Truncoso, Sherlock, all those Hylia guys.

375
00:27:01,740 --> 00:27:04,640
Yeah. Scott's a good dude, man.

376
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,240
When we got hired and we know we're going to get to this, but, you know,

377
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,140
I was thinking about going to the smoke diver program.

378
00:27:10,140 --> 00:27:12,440
I was just finally pulling the trigger.

379
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,540
I'd made it public just again for accountability, not that anyone gave a shit,

380
00:27:16,540 --> 00:27:19,740
but just so I'd put out there and then I'd tear my meniscus and it's like,

381
00:27:19,740 --> 00:27:24,940
and then I end up transitioning out and my why, my burning why that you need for that was gone.

382
00:27:24,940 --> 00:27:30,140
But I was reflecting back. We were hired in a non-sirup program in Hylia.

383
00:27:30,140 --> 00:27:32,940
But as you said, half the class, we had all our stuff.

384
00:27:32,940 --> 00:27:36,740
The other half were people that was kind of like now, I guess they were.

385
00:27:36,740 --> 00:27:39,540
Hylia specifically was struggling for applicants.

386
00:27:39,540 --> 00:27:41,840
Miami-Dade wasn't because they paid twice as much.

387
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,740
So, you know, you can figure out why we had so few applicants.

388
00:27:45,740 --> 00:27:52,940
But so while the non-sirups went through fire and EMT, they just beasted us on the draw ground.

389
00:27:52,940 --> 00:27:55,540
And so when I look back now, it's like, you know,

390
00:27:55,540 --> 00:27:58,540
and I'm going to sit down with Scott and Rick one day and talk about this,

391
00:27:58,540 --> 00:28:01,140
but Mancinelli.

392
00:28:01,140 --> 00:28:03,240
But I mean, it was literally like smoke divers.

393
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,940
We were in gear all day every day.

394
00:28:04,940 --> 00:28:06,040
We PT'd in gear.

395
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,940
We did collapse mazes and the burns were so hot you could barely even kneel down,

396
00:28:10,940 --> 00:28:14,940
you know, the radiant heat through your mask, your eyeballs were cooking.

397
00:28:14,940 --> 00:28:19,540
They had this big chimney where they put freaking diesel and all kinds of shit.

398
00:28:19,540 --> 00:28:23,840
It was, I look back now, probably not NFPA, 100%.

399
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,040
But, you know, it was interesting because that was my,

400
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,340
it wasn't even a class I went to.

401
00:28:28,340 --> 00:28:30,140
That was my first apartment.

402
00:28:30,140 --> 00:28:35,740
So they set that bar so high and they set the misery so high that when I reflect,

403
00:28:35,740 --> 00:28:37,240
was it a smoke diver program?

404
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,640
No, but I think it was a drawn out version of the same thing.

405
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:46,440
They created a brutal, brutal experience and it spanned the Florida summer too.

406
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:47,540
Yeah, yeah.

407
00:28:47,540 --> 00:28:50,340
Yeah, those guys are, they used to do gangster stuff for sure.

408
00:28:50,340 --> 00:28:52,840
Yeah, Rick Mancinelli was one of my lead instructors.

409
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,740
We're still friends to this day. He's awesome.

410
00:28:54,740 --> 00:28:56,140
Yeah, I know he's retired.

411
00:28:56,140 --> 00:28:57,940
So it's trying to, I probably just do it virtually now,

412
00:28:57,940 --> 00:29:00,340
but I just want to get the two of them because yeah,

413
00:29:00,340 --> 00:29:02,240
I think that was the only class that was mixed like that.

414
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:07,340
And yeah, they murdered us for three months straight.

415
00:29:07,340 --> 00:29:10,140
All right. So talk to me about working in the Keys.

416
00:29:10,140 --> 00:29:14,340
I know Key West specifically, the kind of lure around Florida was,

417
00:29:14,340 --> 00:29:17,540
it was a beautiful place to work, but the pay was obviously terrible.

418
00:29:17,540 --> 00:29:19,540
So it's kind of like a retiree spot.

419
00:29:19,540 --> 00:29:21,240
Well, you know, you don't have to name the place,

420
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,740
but what was your experience down there as a firefighter in your particular department?

421
00:29:25,740 --> 00:29:27,540
Yeah, so I got hired. It was in the middle of Keys.

422
00:29:27,540 --> 00:29:28,940
I worked for the city marathon.

423
00:29:28,940 --> 00:29:30,240
I'm not ashamed to say it.

424
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,340
I'm out of where I got hired and got my first opportunity.

425
00:29:33,340 --> 00:29:36,540
So shout out to the marathon guys down there.

426
00:29:36,540 --> 00:29:40,340
Yeah, so I got hired with a city marathon about halfway down the Keys

427
00:29:40,340 --> 00:29:42,740
just before the seven mile bridge.

428
00:29:42,740 --> 00:29:46,240
It was a one station department, four people took care of the city

429
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,240
and there was zero recruit school.

430
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,940
Like when I was there, it's hey, today's your first day.

431
00:29:50,940 --> 00:29:54,940
Come on. And you're just going to on the job learning, right?

432
00:29:54,940 --> 00:29:57,240
And the Keys is a whole different world.

433
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,340
I mean, you've been there, but for those that everybody's like,

434
00:29:59,340 --> 00:30:01,940
oh my God, you're so lucky you're working in the Keys.

435
00:30:01,940 --> 00:30:05,040
Yeah, it's beautiful to visit, but not to work at.

436
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,840
I always say the teeth and shoes are optional in the Keys.

437
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:14,040
Once you cross that bridge, you know, it's a whole different world to work there.

438
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:15,540
I mean, we had a lot of fun.

439
00:30:15,540 --> 00:30:19,140
Luckily, I worked with a good crew and we were about training

440
00:30:19,140 --> 00:30:20,640
and we did a lot of training.

441
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,840
I was able to take a bunch of classes.

442
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,340
We were tight with Monroe County training people.

443
00:30:26,340 --> 00:30:28,140
So we got to burn a lot at their burn building.

444
00:30:28,140 --> 00:30:32,340
And like you said, we're putting tires and like everything you're not supposed to do nowadays

445
00:30:32,340 --> 00:30:33,640
and you can't do nowadays, right?

446
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,840
Burning as hot as we could and we're doing as much training as we could

447
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,840
and we're just trying to get by, right?

448
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:43,440
So I'm super thankful for that.

449
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,040
But it's just a whole different world down there.

450
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:46,940
Whole different world.

451
00:30:46,940 --> 00:30:49,940
Have you seen the new Roadhouse film?

452
00:30:49,940 --> 00:30:54,740
No. So it's set supposedly in the Keys and it's pretty funny.

453
00:30:54,740 --> 00:30:57,840
Like this beach Roadhouse every single night.

454
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,640
These people are just fighting and everything and I'm like,

455
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,940
it doesn't seem to be the Keys that I remember.

456
00:31:02,940 --> 00:31:03,740
You know what I mean?

457
00:31:03,740 --> 00:31:04,640
It's not Compton.

458
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:09,540
It's a lot of very old people, you know, listening to Jimmy Buffett

459
00:31:09,540 --> 00:31:13,340
and you know, trying to escape whatever it was further north.

460
00:31:13,340 --> 00:31:15,540
Yeah. The good thing about working down there, man,

461
00:31:15,540 --> 00:31:17,540
like I said, we were four people to the city.

462
00:31:17,540 --> 00:31:23,040
It taught you how to do a lot of work for a good period of time before help arrived.

463
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:28,140
You had to do work for a long period of time before help arrived because help was far away.

464
00:31:28,140 --> 00:31:28,940
So that was awesome.

465
00:31:28,940 --> 00:31:31,940
So I, you know, we didn't get fires all the time,

466
00:31:31,940 --> 00:31:35,040
but when we did they were usually pretty big and we're doing work for a while.

467
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:36,640
We had car crashes all the time.

468
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,040
So that was good training, right?

469
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,740
So yeah, I'm super thankful for that because we got to learn how to do work.

470
00:31:42,740 --> 00:31:46,740
Like in Miami-Dade just we always joke they put the fire out because they have so many people that show up

471
00:31:46,740 --> 00:31:48,840
and that exhaust brake puts the fire out, right?

472
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:49,840
We had to go to work.

473
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,840
So yeah, thankful for that.

474
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,940
How many did you ride on the rig?

475
00:31:54,940 --> 00:31:56,340
Two and two.

476
00:31:56,340 --> 00:31:57,140
Back then.

477
00:31:57,140 --> 00:31:58,240
Really?

478
00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:58,640
Yeah.

479
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,740
So if you want to like, yeah, two and two.

480
00:32:01,740 --> 00:32:05,540
Yeah, I still I mean that that blows me away that we have any departments,

481
00:32:05,540 --> 00:32:09,540
you know, in the 21st century with that kind of staffing.

482
00:32:09,540 --> 00:32:12,240
If you've ever seen it's called Into the Fire,

483
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,340
I think it was a History Channel documentary,

484
00:32:15,340 --> 00:32:20,340
but there's this one guy who I think it was like a mixed department.

485
00:32:20,340 --> 00:32:23,240
So he I think was the full-time guy and then there were volunteers

486
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:29,340
and he ends up driving an aerial on his own to this apartment structure fire.

487
00:32:29,340 --> 00:32:32,840
There's power lines all over him.

488
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,740
So he can't put the outriggers out and raise the aerial and he's hearing these thuds

489
00:32:37,740 --> 00:32:41,740
and it's his mother throwing her children out the window as she's burning up.

490
00:32:41,740 --> 00:32:45,440
And this guy, this was in the 80s and he's talking about this in early 2000s

491
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,940
and he's just weeping as he's talking about it.

492
00:32:47,940 --> 00:32:48,540
You know what I mean?

493
00:32:48,540 --> 00:32:52,640
So this, you know, one and two staffing on paper, that's all well and good.

494
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,140
But when it's your family in there, you know,

495
00:32:55,140 --> 00:32:59,340
and they can't do the job because you've literally got two people all of a sudden,

496
00:32:59,340 --> 00:33:03,940
you realize that money and currency are two very different things for sure.

497
00:33:03,940 --> 00:33:07,440
Yeah. I mean, if you were like once they got the second station,

498
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,640
you had two people at one station with two rigs.

499
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,440
So like you said, if you're going to fire,

500
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,840
one person would drive the ambulance and one person would drive the fire truck

501
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,140
and then they park it or whatever it was, right?

502
00:33:17,140 --> 00:33:18,840
So yeah, it's crazy.

503
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,740
What was the tax base like? Was it a wealthy area?

504
00:33:22,740 --> 00:33:24,540
Yeah, I know at the same time, right?

505
00:33:24,540 --> 00:33:29,540
There's tons of trailer parks and stuff and then there was like nice area.

506
00:33:29,540 --> 00:33:31,640
So yes and no.

507
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:32,740
Yeah. I mean, it blows me away.

508
00:33:32,740 --> 00:33:34,640
I've talked about this with people, you know, volunteer,

509
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:38,240
like if you're out in the middle of the boonies somewhere, I totally get it.

510
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:39,140
100% get it.

511
00:33:39,140 --> 00:33:41,240
And obviously you need to have federal mutual aid,

512
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:46,240
but you know, a kind of all hands approach while the people are coming in

513
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:47,740
makes perfect sense.

514
00:33:47,740 --> 00:33:48,840
But you look at the Northeast,

515
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,640
you've got affluent suburban neighborhoods that are still relying on volunteers

516
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,240
and it's just so backwards.

517
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:56,440
Yeah. Yeah.

518
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,540
We can go down that whole rabbit hole with that.

519
00:33:58,540 --> 00:34:00,540
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

520
00:34:00,540 --> 00:34:02,640
Yeah. Well, what's your thoughts on that?

521
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,840
You know, like you said, like riding,

522
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:06,740
there's still places that ride three and two, right?

523
00:34:06,740 --> 00:34:10,640
Two on the medic unit and three on the suppression unit, right?

524
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:11,940
It's insane.

525
00:34:11,940 --> 00:34:15,440
I mean, it's I don't even know how to put it, but besides being insane,

526
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,440
it should be a minimum of four on every suppression unit and three on a medic unit.

527
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,840
We wrote three on the medic unit in South Florida

528
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,240
and that was night and day difference in two.

529
00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:25,740
Obviously one more person.

530
00:34:25,740 --> 00:34:27,040
I'm not even talking about medical calls.

531
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,540
I'm talking about fire calls, right?

532
00:34:29,540 --> 00:34:30,940
You just go to work, right?

533
00:34:30,940 --> 00:34:36,040
So it's just night and day and then how we're supposed to be fire based EMS, right?

534
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,040
And if you're not used to training or not used to running

535
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,740
and a medic unit as searching ahead of the line with a water can,

536
00:34:44,740 --> 00:34:46,040
what are we doing, right?

537
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,340
We're just wasting valuable time.

538
00:34:47,340 --> 00:34:50,440
So you want me to wait outside till the engine arrives and they pull a line,

539
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:51,840
then we can all go in together.

540
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,440
What if it's two, three, four minutes?

541
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,540
What if that's your family in there?

542
00:34:55,540 --> 00:34:57,240
Then what, right?

543
00:34:57,240 --> 00:34:59,440
So yeah, there's still places that run like that.

544
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,040
So we're, you know, we're trying to change stuff out here in the North area

545
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,740
and of Colorado and trying to implement that fire based EMS first

546
00:35:05,740 --> 00:35:08,640
and let your guys run ahead of the ahead of the line.

547
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:09,840
Search ahead of the line with the water can.

548
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,840
You're good. Supposed to be thinking fireman, right?

549
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,640
Yeah, I'm not going to go in a basement if it's on fire with a water can.

550
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,840
I understand that, but I could control it.

551
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,240
I can confine it and I could still search the searchable space, right?

552
00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:22,340
I remember a fire.

553
00:35:22,340 --> 00:35:28,640
We were on the rescue in Hialeah and we think we almost like stumbled across it.

554
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,940
So the engine was still a few miles away.

555
00:35:31,940 --> 00:35:34,640
And I forget the lieutenant's name now.

556
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,040
Big kind of burly angry dude with a giant bald head.

557
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:40,340
But he was stationed to back then.

558
00:35:40,340 --> 00:35:42,440
But there was three of us.

559
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,940
There's a female firefighter and think she was still bunking up.

560
00:35:44,940 --> 00:35:46,040
I think she maybe she was driving.

561
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:50,740
I forget. And so he and I went in and it was it was a can

562
00:35:50,740 --> 00:35:53,340
and they used to put some dish detergent in there.

563
00:35:53,340 --> 00:35:55,240
And again, bearing in mind, I'm a brand new firefighter.

564
00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:57,240
So I'm not talking this is my hero story.

565
00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:00,040
He was guiding me on what to do and where to hit it and everything.

566
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,340
But it was a fully involved kitchen, all the cabinets and everything

567
00:36:03,340 --> 00:36:06,440
and that one can put out the whole room, stop the fire.

568
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,340
And then obviously we carried on the search and that was it.

569
00:36:09,340 --> 00:36:12,240
And then the engine came and, you know, we walked out, gave him high five

570
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:13,840
and went back into service.

571
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,840
But it is amazing when you've actually used one on a real fire.

572
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,540
Just how effective they can be, like you said, to a point.

573
00:36:21,540 --> 00:36:26,140
Right. Yeah. And seriously, like that water can is amazing.

574
00:36:26,140 --> 00:36:28,940
Like you said, it could put out so much fire and you can do so much work.

575
00:36:28,940 --> 00:36:33,540
My job when I was on that ambulance was to put the fire out to shut down the engine.

576
00:36:33,540 --> 00:36:34,640
My job. That was my mission.

577
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,140
I want to put that fire and ruin their ruin their day.

578
00:36:37,140 --> 00:36:38,940
Don't worry about pulling the line. We got it.

579
00:36:38,940 --> 00:36:41,040
Right. Obviously, you know, that doesn't go with every fire.

580
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:42,440
But, you know, that was my mission.

581
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,640
And I had the most like you give me an option to pull a hose line or do truck work.

582
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,040
We called it inside truck work in South Florida.

583
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:49,740
I'm going to go do inside truck work.

584
00:36:49,740 --> 00:36:51,940
That's what I like. That's what I'm passionate about.

585
00:36:51,940 --> 00:36:55,040
Absolutely. Well, what about the transition then?

586
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,940
What made you move from the Keys further north?

587
00:36:57,940 --> 00:37:01,540
So again, it was just such a small department.

588
00:37:01,540 --> 00:37:03,540
There was no back then.

589
00:37:03,540 --> 00:37:05,240
There was no promotional testing.

590
00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:08,340
It was hey, hey, James, you've been here longer.

591
00:37:08,340 --> 00:37:10,040
So and so just left. We need a lieutenant.

592
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,740
So you're you're it basically kind of thing.

593
00:37:12,740 --> 00:37:15,440
And there was no growth opportunity.

594
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,840
And I don't care about promoting per se, but there was just nowhere to go.

595
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,940
So I was I was like, I need to get out of here.

596
00:37:21,940 --> 00:37:25,640
So finally was hired with the city department in South Florida.

597
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,940
And that was my last department. South Florida was there for seven years,

598
00:37:27,940 --> 00:37:31,040
which was about nine station department. Pretty decent size.

599
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,240
I didn't want to work for like a Miami date or Palm Beach County,

600
00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:37,540
because they're just so big that I could literally you and I could put on a shirt right now,

601
00:37:37,540 --> 00:37:41,240
could show up to a station on shift change and they'd be like, oh, hey, cool.

602
00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:43,940
Wouldn't even know. Right. And I didn't like that.

603
00:37:43,940 --> 00:37:45,340
I want to know who I'm working with.

604
00:37:45,340 --> 00:37:50,040
I want to know if they're good or not. Just just so I know. Right.

605
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,340
Made that transition and it was good for a while.

606
00:37:53,340 --> 00:37:57,140
And then it's just I don't even call them leaders.

607
00:37:57,140 --> 00:37:58,440
Right. Just the people at the top.

608
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:03,640
It was just such a toxic organization that it was just not healthy.

609
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,740
Luckily, my crews that I work with were awesome.

610
00:38:05,740 --> 00:38:07,340
And we have we had great people there.

611
00:38:07,340 --> 00:38:10,240
They're still great people there. They're moving, promoting awesome people.

612
00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:13,240
So I think it's going to be changing in the next few years

613
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:15,840
once you get rid of all the people at the top.

614
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,740
But as a whole, it was just toxic breeding toxic, you know, the old timers bringing in the other

615
00:38:20,740 --> 00:38:24,440
the newer guys and they're making them toxic and it was just super toxic.

616
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:29,240
So my wife and I were out here and we're in Colorado and we're like, what are we doing?

617
00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:32,140
We don't have kids. We don't love Florida.

618
00:38:32,140 --> 00:38:36,140
Hot and humid. 11 months out of your sucks. We don't love the beach.

619
00:38:36,140 --> 00:38:38,040
We love the mountains. We're always in the mountains.

620
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,440
Why not come out here? And that's kind of how ended up out here.

621
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,340
I had zero regrets, zero regrets leaving.

622
00:38:44,340 --> 00:38:47,440
I want to get to the transition because obviously that's something that you and I've got in common

623
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,640
is moving later in your career before we do, though, if I got the timeline right,

624
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:59,240
were you still in Marathon then when you kind of decided to break off with alcohol?

625
00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:03,040
Doesn't it? Yeah, I was.

626
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,140
Yep, I was still in the keys. I had to do the math.

627
00:39:06,140 --> 00:39:09,340
I got hired in 08 and I became sober in 11.

628
00:39:09,340 --> 00:39:12,940
So yeah, for three years, I was drinking and partying hard.

629
00:39:12,940 --> 00:39:17,040
I mean, I can't tell you how many times I showed up from an all nighter and I'm not proud of it.

630
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,040
I'm not saying it to brag or anything like that.

631
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:24,940
Yeah, I'd show up drinking all night and just show up to work and just go lay down or get an IV and go go lay down.

632
00:39:24,940 --> 00:39:27,940
Luckily, we were not busy at all.

633
00:39:27,940 --> 00:39:35,540
Some days we wouldn't turn wheels so I could do that and it wasn't putting air quotes anybody in jeopardy.

634
00:39:35,540 --> 00:39:38,540
But yeah, I was still drinking hard for like three years.

635
00:39:38,540 --> 00:39:45,240
So what changed? Was there a pivotal moment or just a slow kind of realization that it was detrimental?

636
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:49,440
Yeah, I mean, I like I said, I was drinking and driving spiraling out of control and then one

637
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:55,840
and you know, just doing the like every time I drank, I blacked out and I wasn't a drinker because I liked the taste of it.

638
00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:02,440
It was if I'm drinking, we're getting fucked up and I'm getting you fucked up and I'm getting everybody around me fucked up and we're getting fucked up.

639
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:11,240
So what made me what was my basically rock bottom was I totaled my car, totaled my car, crashed into somebody.

640
00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:13,640
Luckily, nobody was hurt in that car.

641
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:14,940
Luckily, I wasn't hurt.

642
00:40:14,940 --> 00:40:16,240
I mean, fire was there.

643
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:17,040
Police were there.

644
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:23,140
I don't know how I didn't get a DUI because I should have got a DUI for sure.

645
00:40:23,140 --> 00:40:26,640
And whatever you believe in somebody or something was looking out for me.

646
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:32,140
Right. And I got home that day woke up and I was like, I'm fucking done.

647
00:40:32,140 --> 00:40:35,940
I am done. And I was tired of the apology text apology phone calls.

648
00:40:35,940 --> 00:40:37,540
I had to make every day after drinking.

649
00:40:37,540 --> 00:40:39,240
I wouldn't remember anything.

650
00:40:39,240 --> 00:40:44,240
So people would have to tell me all the dumb shit embarrassing shit I did and I had to apologize for it.

651
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:48,340
And it was just it's just pathetic, literally pathetic.

652
00:40:48,340 --> 00:40:49,440
So that was my rock bottom.

653
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,640
I told my car I was like, I'm fucking done.

654
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,040
And that was it. That was the last time I drank.

655
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:59,340
What were the tools that you use to allow you to not slip back into that?

656
00:40:59,340 --> 00:41:05,840
Because one would assume that there was some sort of void that you were filling with alcohol when we, you know,

657
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:10,140
stop whatever our substance or, you know, gambling or whatever it is.

658
00:41:10,140 --> 00:41:14,740
Now the rawness of what you've been escaping is staring straight at you.

659
00:41:14,740 --> 00:41:20,040
Yeah, I mean, obviously there's a lot of shame and stuff, you know, and sobering up, right?

660
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:26,740
A lot of shame in that. And I kind of did it in an unconventional way and I wouldn't recommend this to everybody.

661
00:41:26,740 --> 00:41:28,940
Like I know people go to AA and it's amazing.

662
00:41:28,940 --> 00:41:33,040
And I've heard great things about AA. Awesome. You do whatever you need to do, right?

663
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:37,340
I just woke up that day and I said, I'm I'm fucking done.

664
00:41:37,340 --> 00:41:40,840
And that was it. And people know me say I have an addictive personality.

665
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:49,040
So I think I don't think I know fitness fill that void and fill that gap and not just like bro lifting and stuff.

666
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:53,940
So pretty much everything I do for the most part is extreme, right?

667
00:41:53,940 --> 00:41:58,440
And anybody that knows me is I'm always down and trying to do crazier and more extreme things.

668
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:07,840
So for sure, the fitness and the extreme things that I do that version of stuff basically took over my addiction to alcohol.

669
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:13,140
How do you self regulate so you don't over train so you don't go so far even in the fitness?

670
00:42:13,140 --> 00:42:17,040
Because I mean, that's another area that we can go too far in.

671
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,140
Yeah, so that's a funny question. I talk about that.

672
00:42:21,140 --> 00:42:27,240
If people say you're over training or if you think you're over train, I guarantee you're not training hard enough to over train.

673
00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:29,940
For example, you guys know the Iron Cowboy.

674
00:42:29,940 --> 00:42:34,240
Have you heard of James Lawrence, the Iron Cowboy?

675
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:41,640
So he's the guy that did a full Ironman triathlon every day for 50 days in 50 different states.

676
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,840
Full Ironman. And yeah, he kind of went through some shit,

677
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,040
but he was getting better and he was faster by the end of it.

678
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,940
Just an example of and Goggin says all the time, right?

679
00:42:50,940 --> 00:42:56,440
You are not training hard enough. An hour workout a day is not over training.

680
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,940
So I don't worry about I literally training gear every single day.

681
00:42:59,940 --> 00:43:02,140
I don't hardly ever take a rest day.

682
00:43:02,140 --> 00:43:06,640
And if it's a rest day, I might still run a couple miles or, you know, whatever.

683
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:11,040
I suck at push ups. I do 200 push ups a day.

684
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:16,540
Regardless throughout the day, I'm not ripping 200 in a set, but I do 200 push ups throughout the day.

685
00:43:16,540 --> 00:43:20,040
And I don't believe in over training per se.

686
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,240
And I know like sports athletes and stuff, they can get into that kind of stuff.

687
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:29,340
But I guarantee you in this business, you're not an hour workout a day is not over training you any means necessary.

688
00:43:29,340 --> 00:43:30,740
No, within an hour. Definitely not.

689
00:43:30,740 --> 00:43:39,040
I think the problem that we have to look at in the fire service, though, is if you haven't slept that totally then skews your ability to train.

690
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,040
Well, yeah, 100 percent, right?

691
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,740
A hundred percent. And I lean into that sometimes, right?

692
00:43:44,740 --> 00:43:46,940
Because we're talking about that mental fortitude, right?

693
00:43:46,940 --> 00:43:50,040
So it's easy to come off shift and be like, you know what?

694
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,540
I didn't sleep at night. I'm going to go take a nap and then work out.

695
00:43:53,540 --> 00:44:01,640
Well, depending on what your goal is, for example, if smoke diver is your goal, I tell people lean into that workout as soon as you get home.

696
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:06,240
Tired, angry, hungry, whatever it is, zero sleep.

697
00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:11,240
That's when you need to lean into that and work out then because you're building that mental fortitude.

698
00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:13,040
And then you can take a nap after right?

699
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:17,440
Obviously, depends what your goal is or if you got kids at home or whatever.

700
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,940
But use that as an opportunity.

701
00:44:20,940 --> 00:44:25,240
To do something good towards your goal and yes, sleep is a whole other thing, right?

702
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:28,840
I know you're a huge advocate, which I love about the 24 72.

703
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:33,640
I've never worked that I went from a 24 48 with the Kelly to now 48 96.

704
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,840
And we could talk about that and how I feel about that.

705
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,240
But yeah, sleeps a whole nother game.

706
00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:41,740
100 percent. Yeah, we'll definitely get to that in a minute.

707
00:44:41,740 --> 00:44:48,040
While you're talking about push ups, though, what made you choose to try the Florida Smite Smoke Diver program

708
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:52,440
and talk to me about your success in that particular try?

709
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,240
No success. I'll tell you that.

710
00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:59,140
So Florida, Florida Smoke Diver, that's been on my radar since I worked in Marathon.

711
00:44:59,140 --> 00:45:02,340
So going back probably 10 years now,

712
00:45:02,340 --> 00:45:07,140
I had actually signed up and was in the class in Florida and Florida is all on you.

713
00:45:07,140 --> 00:45:08,940
Florida Smoke Diver, it's all in you. I lived in Florida.

714
00:45:08,940 --> 00:45:13,340
It's all on you. So that's how I first heard of Smoke Diver.

715
00:45:13,340 --> 00:45:16,440
And I was in the class and then I got hired with the city department.

716
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,040
So I'm like, hmm, I'm starting.

717
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:25,740
I probably don't want to risk getting hurt being on probation or right before I go get hired in the new department.

718
00:45:25,740 --> 00:45:28,940
So then every year was always something right something some excuse.

719
00:45:28,940 --> 00:45:33,240
Yeah, I get it. And then a couple years they didn't even do it.

720
00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:37,040
And then one year I finally signed up said, fuck it, we're doing it.

721
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,340
And I went there and failed out in the first two minutes.

722
00:45:40,340 --> 00:45:45,740
Super easy. Now easy 50 push ups in two minutes was the standard.

723
00:45:45,740 --> 00:45:49,940
Now it's like because there's so much interest you have to max reps and they score you and all that.

724
00:45:49,940 --> 00:45:54,240
But back then I had to do is knock out 50 push ups in two minutes cake.

725
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:58,440
And I didn't practice a lot. I've done it a few times at home and I was like, all right, I can get it.

726
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,540
I got like 53 or whatever. No excuse.

727
00:46:01,540 --> 00:46:06,340
Went there and shit the bed missed it by one packed up all my shit and drove all the way home.

728
00:46:06,340 --> 00:46:09,740
And I was like, this is not happening ever again.

729
00:46:09,740 --> 00:46:12,340
And back then they would run a class back to back.

730
00:46:12,340 --> 00:46:17,640
So I was trying hard to get into that second class and they wouldn't let me which I get, you know, you just failed push ups.

731
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:21,040
You're not going to let you in this class. Totally get it.

732
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,340
And so that was my first attempt at Florida.

733
00:46:24,340 --> 00:46:26,440
And then I signed up again.

734
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:32,440
I came here if it was a couple years later and that's when they changed it to having a selection process in September.

735
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:38,240
Two day selection process for top four to go from Saturday to Sunday top 30 go to the class in January.

736
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:45,040
And I had already moved a vacation around in Montana that I had with my wife for a gun class.

737
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:51,840
I was taken in Montana. So I didn't want to slide it some more because of Florida smoke diver.

738
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,440
So then I had already started hearing about Georgia.

739
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,940
So I'm like, F it. Let me see if I can get into Georgia.

740
00:46:56,940 --> 00:47:00,840
And that's when I got into Georgia that following February of 22.

741
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,640
And yeah, that's I went at 45 years old.

742
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:09,040
I had just turned 45 years old and was successful in that program.

743
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:12,740
I had Chad Belger on a few times, you know, him in again.

744
00:47:12,740 --> 00:47:16,640
He's got a very, very powerful sobriety story himself, but also, you know,

745
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:22,040
is a frickin robot when it comes to gear training and smoke diver programs.

746
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:28,040
And then obviously I had Chief David Rhodes on quite a while ago now and listening to each of them,

747
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:37,740
certainly Florida a few years ago, the Georgia one appeared to have a little bit more of that kind of firefight survival skills area.

748
00:47:37,740 --> 00:47:40,840
And a few years ago now, it may well have evolved.

749
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:45,440
Florida seemed to be a little bit more known for that kind of beasting,

750
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:50,840
you know, searching hours for poker chip type of type of evolutions in your research.

751
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:52,440
You know, what what have you found?

752
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:57,740
You know, are the differences between the two that maybe justify doing both?

753
00:47:57,740 --> 00:48:02,440
Yeah, I mean, I have a ton of friends that are Florida smoke divers, man, like Basil.

754
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:10,040
Like you said, Chad, all those guys, Matt McGee, all those guys, I'm friends with Nate and Nate Stern and all those guys.

755
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,040
Mejia. Yeah, they're just two different beasts.

756
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,540
And I've talked to Baz, who's now Georgia smoke diver and Florida smoke diver.

757
00:48:16,540 --> 00:48:20,340
So he's been to both. I have friends that have done both.

758
00:48:20,340 --> 00:48:22,640
Just to pick their brain, obviously, I say don't give me secrets.

759
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,240
I don't want to get secrets. But what is your opinion?

760
00:48:25,240 --> 00:48:27,340
Right. They say they're just two different animals.

761
00:48:27,340 --> 00:48:32,340
Right. Yeah, I think there's more learning stuff happening in Georgia.

762
00:48:32,340 --> 00:48:38,140
And I think Florida is just like you said, beasting it and suck it up and get it done.

763
00:48:38,140 --> 00:48:44,340
Right. They say Georgia is longer, like 10, 12 hours in gear.

764
00:48:44,340 --> 00:48:47,640
Florida's shorter durations in gear, but the intensity is higher.

765
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:55,240
That's what I've heard and been told. Also, Florida has terminal objectives every day and they're mostly air consumption based.

766
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:57,240
So if you suck on air, guess what?

767
00:48:57,240 --> 00:49:01,240
You're not going to be successful and you got to be a really good fireman.

768
00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:07,040
So got eyes on Florida. Yeah, I got I got some unfinished business.

769
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:14,040
But now that I live in Colorado, I don't know if it's going to be feasible or it's going to be harder to make happen is what I'll say.

770
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,940
But I don't know. I might revisit it someday.

771
00:49:17,940 --> 00:49:26,640
It's interesting as well as its timing to like I said, when I, you know, because I say got her, I had an injury, but then I rehab back to full duty again, like I always do.

772
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:32,640
So I was actually, you know, able to, if not stronger than before, by the time I built myself back up.

773
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:40,740
But that why like when I transition out the fire service to do a smoke pipe diver program, my priorities are changed.

774
00:49:40,740 --> 00:49:44,540
And even if you live in Ocala, you have to stay at the college for those five days.

775
00:49:44,540 --> 00:49:49,040
I just left a department. I spent 14 years not seeing my family.

776
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:54,540
No, that was that was all it took for me. No, I want to be with my son, wake up and have breakfast with him every day.

777
00:49:54,540 --> 00:49:57,340
That's more important than me now than that chip.

778
00:49:57,340 --> 00:50:02,740
So, you know, understanding if that's something you want to do and it's really, really burning in your heart now.

779
00:50:02,740 --> 00:50:07,440
Don't wait. Don't wait because your priorities will change at some point for sure.

780
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,540
And you got to have your mind right, man. Like I have friends that have gone there with their mind not right.

781
00:50:11,540 --> 00:50:14,140
Or they got issues going on at home with their wives or whatever.

782
00:50:14,140 --> 00:50:17,640
And their mind's not in it. You have to be present in the moment.

783
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,640
Like I didn't talk to my wife when I was there. Yeah, we text. I said, hey, I'm just going to text you.

784
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,040
Hey, day one secure. I love you. Good night. Good morning.

785
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,940
I love you. Talk to you later. That was it because I wanted to be in the moment.

786
00:50:28,940 --> 00:50:35,440
Like you talk to like military guys and when they go overseas, they say, I try not to talk to my wife because I need to be in the moment.

787
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,840
Not being worried about what's happening at home. Right.

788
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:42,240
And you have to have your mind right. Like if you could pass the entrance test, like even bad.

789
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:45,940
Some of you can pass the entrance test. You're physically capable of doing what's required.

790
00:50:45,940 --> 00:50:57,140
It's up here that's going to jam you up. And most people don't have that mental fortitude and never really put themselves in the fire per se to see if they have what it takes.

791
00:50:57,140 --> 00:51:00,340
And that's why I say, like you said, if you're thinking about do it, you're going to be a better fireman.

792
00:51:00,340 --> 00:51:04,740
Just training up to do it, whether you were successful or not in the class. It doesn't matter.

793
00:51:04,740 --> 00:51:08,840
I know jam up firemen that have never passed a class and vice versa.

794
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:13,640
I know shitty ass firemen that have passed those classes. Nothing against the program.

795
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,840
Right. Every entity, every unit has those.

796
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:21,940
Right. Even the freaking seals, the Delta Force, the Green Braids, they all have the guys that shouldn't have passed.

797
00:51:21,940 --> 00:51:25,640
They all have the guys that aren't like the true whatever it is.

798
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:30,340
Right. But you're going to be a better fireman just training up for it regardless.

799
00:51:30,340 --> 00:51:35,740
Absolutely. So what has been the evolution of your training philosophy?

800
00:51:35,740 --> 00:51:43,040
You know, for example, when I was training for the fire service, it was going to the YMCA and this was pre-crossfit.

801
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:56,340
So I was just doing the squats, the bench, all the things and lots of calisthenics and then running a shitload and then getting to the tower early and doing extra hose work and the sled and all that stuff and just trying to trying to get myself there.

802
00:51:56,340 --> 00:52:02,940
So because I got into it a little bit later, I think I was 26, 25, 26 months in the academy.

803
00:52:02,940 --> 00:52:07,140
You know, I understood that I was a slimmer guy that I needed to work on some stuff.

804
00:52:07,140 --> 00:52:12,940
So pretty much from there, that's where I kind of dialed in my fitness and then CrossFit came later.

805
00:52:12,940 --> 00:52:20,640
And then I threw some strongman stuff in even later to complement the CrossFit and that served me well to this day, even in Jiu Jitsu.

806
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,940
You come out of the track world, you do ex-phys at school.

807
00:52:24,940 --> 00:52:30,140
You know, what has been the evolution of how you used to train versus how you train now?

808
00:52:30,140 --> 00:52:35,440
Oh, man. Night and day, night and day difference. Like you, before CrossFit was a thing.

809
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,640
I would be at whatever local gym and I'd have all my little stations set up.

810
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:46,040
So I was doing cross training before CrossFit was a thing, you know, jump from one thing to another, no rest and doing that.

811
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,340
Back then, before I became a fireman, no gear.

812
00:52:48,340 --> 00:52:55,540
Yeah, maybe I'd have like a vest on or, you know, get the old school elevation training masks, right?

813
00:52:55,540 --> 00:53:01,140
But now, since I became and the first three or four years, I was not passionate about the fire service.

814
00:53:01,140 --> 00:53:06,640
I did not care about the fire service. I was just telling everybody I was a fireman and that was it, right?

815
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:14,140
So lately, probably in the last eight, ten years or so is when I started really truly becoming passionate about it.

816
00:53:14,140 --> 00:53:17,140
And what does that translate to on the fire ground?

817
00:53:17,140 --> 00:53:22,440
So then I started tweaking my workouts. Is this going to help me on the fire ground or not?

818
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,840
Bench doesn't help me on the fire ground, so I'm not benching.

819
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:31,140
Just me, because I'm not lifting to look good. I'm lifting to be able to be able to perform on the fire ground.

820
00:53:31,140 --> 00:53:41,040
So and even then, even like four years ago, my training then compared to now, I feel like has leapfrogged so much.

821
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:46,340
And that's just, I think, because of the tight crew that we have and the little circle of people that we text and group chat.

822
00:53:46,340 --> 00:53:50,640
And a lot of these are just social media friends until you finally meet them in person and stuff.

823
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:56,840
And it just keeps leveling up, right? Things that you didn't think you would be able to do, like the McGee workout, right?

824
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:04,340
Everybody knows that's a hard ass workout. 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, right? Down ups, push ups, four count mountain climbers, four count jumping jacks.

825
00:54:04,340 --> 00:54:10,540
Hanging out with John Spira, he's like, I want to get to 100 all the way to 10, 190, 80, 70, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20.

826
00:54:10,540 --> 00:54:15,540
Never in the wildest dreams would we think of doing something like that. And guess what? Now we've done it.

827
00:54:15,540 --> 00:54:22,540
Hey, let's go do a thousand down ups nonstop and full gear, mask, helmet, the whole deal, hood.

828
00:54:22,540 --> 00:54:28,040
Never would we have thought of doing stuff like that. So just it's just evolved so much.

829
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:32,840
And again, everything translates back to how does it translate to performance on the fire ground?

830
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:41,040
So every year I feel like we're just leaps and bounding further and further and doing pushing our bodies further than we thought we could, which is awesome.

831
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:42,740
I freaking love it.

832
00:54:42,740 --> 00:54:45,740
Is that McGee workout, Matt McGee?

833
00:54:45,740 --> 00:54:46,440
Yeah.

834
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,040
Okay. Yeah, I used to work with Matt years ago.

835
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,140
Yeah, we stayed friends online.

836
00:54:51,140 --> 00:54:52,040
Yeah. Yeah.

837
00:54:52,040 --> 00:55:00,740
So he has a workout that started now doing that one regular is kind of like easy, but never like when it first came out, we're like, man, this is a hard ass workout.

838
00:55:00,740 --> 00:55:03,240
Now, what do you do for strength strength?

839
00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:10,540
Because what I found, I mean, I'm a huge proponent of training and gear and we'll obviously get to what kind of gear and if it's clean, all that stuff in a minute.

840
00:55:10,540 --> 00:55:16,440
And ideally one day gear that doesn't have any, you know, anything detrimental already in it.

841
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,740
But there's times to wear gear and times obviously not to wear gear.

842
00:55:20,740 --> 00:55:34,340
And I think, you know, if we go back, I'm just guessing now eight years ago, the Instagram was full of firefighters in full gear doing muscle ups and, you know, all kinds of stupid shit that you would never do on the fire ground and you shouldn't be wearing gear doing.

843
00:55:34,340 --> 00:55:41,340
But, you know, but I love the strong man movements in gear, you know, the sandbag carries the sleds, all those things.

844
00:55:41,340 --> 00:55:47,240
But, you know, then you've got things like Turkish get ups and some of these other things that you can't do with gear on Macy's.

845
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:57,140
So how how do you build the raw strength, the brute strength to complement that muscular endurance that you're doing with some of your other workouts?

846
00:55:57,140 --> 00:55:59,440
Yeah. So when I say I'm in gear every day, I am in gear every day.

847
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:02,140
But, you know, I still squat heavy.

848
00:56:02,140 --> 00:56:04,240
I still deadlift heavy.

849
00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:10,040
I have a bunch of sandbags in my garage, so I'll do a bunch of sandbag workouts most of the time not in gear.

850
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,740
If it is in gear, maybe coat and pants.

851
00:56:12,740 --> 00:56:14,040
It'll be a lighter weight, right?

852
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,540
If it's for more reps and like a circuit or something.

853
00:56:16,540 --> 00:56:25,940
But yeah, I still do like the core squat and deadlift heavy because to me having strong legs, as we all know, is the foundation of everything else.

854
00:56:25,940 --> 00:56:27,140
Right. You got weak ass legs.

855
00:56:27,140 --> 00:56:28,740
You're not going to be able to do a lot of work in gear.

856
00:56:28,740 --> 00:56:32,040
Right. And then like lunges, heavy lunges.

857
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:35,340
Like the other day I was doing lunges with 120 pound sandbag on my back.

858
00:56:35,340 --> 00:56:37,340
Just PT clothes, not in gear.

859
00:56:37,340 --> 00:56:40,840
Right. For the reason, right, you got limited mobility and movement.

860
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:45,340
So I don't want to be throwing around 120 pound sandbag for a bunch of reps.

861
00:56:45,340 --> 00:56:46,640
So yeah, I do it all.

862
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:51,140
Right. But you have to be able to do the strong stuff.

863
00:56:51,140 --> 00:56:54,140
But then you have to be conditioned to be in gear for long periods of time.

864
00:56:54,140 --> 00:56:55,840
It's kind of a fine balance as we all know.

865
00:56:55,840 --> 00:57:00,440
Right. I don't want to like I never bench, never ever bench in the Academy we're teaching at.

866
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:05,240
They were doing bench the other day. So I just jumped on to do it and I got 255.

867
00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:09,140
I'm not proud of that, but for never benching, I'm okay with it.

868
00:57:09,140 --> 00:57:11,040
It's more than me. I'll tell you now.

869
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,540
Right. Like I know there's dudes that bench three, four, 500.

870
00:57:13,540 --> 00:57:16,840
That's great. But let me put you in gear and see how you how you perform in gear.

871
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,240
Right. So and I'm not saying that number to brag.

872
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:24,040
I'm actually kind of ashamed of it, but I'm just like you do pushups every day.

873
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:25,140
You're doing all this other stuff.

874
00:57:25,140 --> 00:57:29,840
It's going to translate to strength in those core movements right now.

875
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,640
If you're not squatting heavy, you're not just going to instantly squat heavy, right?

876
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:34,340
So you have to squat heavy lunge.

877
00:57:34,340 --> 00:57:38,840
I love lunges because it tears your legs up and you get super strong with that.

878
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:45,440
So yeah, in a nutshell, that's kind of how I keep keep my all-around fitness squared away.

879
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:49,440
When you talk about the show muscles, I actually wrote about this in my first book.

880
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:53,640
I remember being down your way and it was one of those I forget what they even call it now,

881
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:58,040
but it was like the fire test where you do one written one physical

882
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:02,940
and then they send the results to all the all the departments and mesh test.

883
00:58:02,940 --> 00:58:06,740
Yes, that was it the mesh yet and I'll never forget.

884
00:58:06,740 --> 00:58:11,440
I mean, I'm straight at the Academy and I've gone all the way down to South Florida fish out of water

885
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:18,440
and these two dudes bright orange, you know, the little tiny tank tops strutting around literally

886
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:24,240
like farmhouse cockerels and you know, I'm like, oh, they must be amazing firefighters in my naive,

887
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,040
you know, way of looking at it. I knew nothing about the fire service by that point.

888
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:31,740
I just passed the Academy and that was it done some ride-alongs and I shit you not.

889
00:58:31,740 --> 00:58:36,040
I think it was literally the second or the third, you know,

890
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:40,240
the floor so two flights of stairs one ten.

891
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:47,540
This is dry hose that you got on just one bundle one taps out then his boyfriend or whoever it was goes next

892
00:58:47,540 --> 00:58:52,540
and same fucking thing and that is when I was like got it.

893
00:58:52,540 --> 00:58:55,940
All the way that I'd been taught, you know, grew up with Schwarzenegger and all that stuff

894
00:58:55,940 --> 00:58:58,740
when it comes to actually applying into the real world.

895
00:58:58,740 --> 00:59:04,940
Not to say there aren't some extraordinary athletes that look like that that can actually do what they do,

896
00:59:04,940 --> 00:59:11,240
but that the show muscles the bodybuilding, you know, when you add that muscular endurance and that stress,

897
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,440
you know, more often than not, if that's all you're doing to be clear,

898
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:19,640
if that's all you're doing that, you know, is a complete facade for sure.

899
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,440
I talk about all the time and throughout all my teaching and all academies.

900
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,940
I taught like I don't care if you can bench 500 pounds.

901
00:59:24,940 --> 00:59:28,440
I don't care if you're a CrossFit Games champion.

902
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,740
I don't care. You could be a D1 athlete, Olympic athlete.

903
00:59:31,740 --> 00:59:34,540
I don't care. I care about when I put you in gear.

904
00:59:34,540 --> 00:59:36,440
How are you going to perform? Right?

905
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:40,340
That's what I care about. And and you know, we talked about D1 athletes.

906
00:59:40,340 --> 00:59:44,240
If you're realistic about it, they've been told they've been awesome their entire life.

907
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:49,240
They've been babying and catered to their entire life, especially like top tier D1 athletes.

908
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:52,040
They get everything handed to them. Their laundry is done for them.

909
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:54,640
Their foods, everything's catered to them.

910
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:59,040
So when they come into this and it's oh now I'm not very good at it.

911
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,240
A lot of them don't know how to handle that. Right.

912
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:02,740
And that goes into Smoke Diver too.

913
01:00:02,740 --> 01:00:05,340
A lot of these guys that think they're great firemen and then all of a sudden they're not

914
01:00:05,340 --> 01:00:07,240
and they're around all these other guys that are really good

915
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,840
and you start feeling a little insecure about your abilities

916
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:13,340
and then it just blows the people's minds. Right.

917
01:00:13,340 --> 01:00:15,240
Absolutely. Yeah, I tell my son that, you know,

918
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,840
I mean, there's very few naturals in the world actually.

919
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:19,740
I think that's a big big myth in itself.

920
01:00:19,740 --> 01:00:24,040
But being bad at something is a real gift because you've got to work.

921
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:27,740
And he's you know, academically, he he almost had to go back a year

922
01:00:27,740 --> 01:00:31,740
and he was very, very young for the school year anyway, almost as long as young as you can be.

923
01:00:31,740 --> 01:00:36,140
And now he's in like honors and AP and I'm like because you fucking learn how to work.

924
01:00:36,140 --> 01:00:38,540
And that's why I'm so proud of you. And he's not getting straight A's.

925
01:00:38,540 --> 01:00:42,640
He gets B's and C's sometimes. I'm still so proud of you because you work.

926
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:47,140
That the letter to me is secondary to the fact that you overcame adversity

927
01:00:47,140 --> 01:00:50,140
and you've got this amazing work ethic now.

928
01:00:50,140 --> 01:00:53,540
No, just learn how to grind. Learn how to grind.

929
01:00:53,540 --> 01:00:55,540
We're not good at anything naturally.

930
01:00:55,540 --> 01:00:59,640
We got to work and work and work and some of us have to work harder than others to be good at it.

931
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:02,540
100 percent. Well, let's get to gear.

932
01:01:02,540 --> 01:01:11,040
I came from the tropical island of England and moved to the central Florida area

933
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:14,740
and within a few months was wearing bunker gear and it was the same as you.

934
01:01:14,740 --> 01:01:17,040
I did the nights and weekends one.

935
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:22,740
So EMT school was first, but then fire school spanned kind of spring all the way through the summer.

936
01:01:22,740 --> 01:01:26,440
Then I get hired six months later by Hialeah, South Florida.

937
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:30,140
And by that point, we're back in the summer again.

938
01:01:30,140 --> 01:01:33,640
It was fucking brutal for lack of a better word. And don't get me wrong.

939
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:38,740
I am equally in awe of the firefighters up north that are working in this ice

940
01:01:38,740 --> 01:01:42,840
and the hydrants are frozen solid and there's icicles coming from down their helmets.

941
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:48,140
But I don't think people understand what it's like to literally cook in bunker gear

942
01:01:48,140 --> 01:01:51,740
until you've worked in, I'm assuming, Texas, Arizona, Florida,

943
01:01:51,740 --> 01:01:53,540
some of these other places.

944
01:01:53,540 --> 01:01:57,640
So you again didn't take your fitness seriously.

945
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:04,240
Walk me through the journey that you took to start to actually acclimatize in your gear.

946
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,840
Because as you said, you can take someone who's phenomenally fit.

947
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:11,640
You throw them in gear and then they've got to go 20 floors up to a high rise fire

948
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:17,140
with 100 pounds worth of gear on them. Totally different story by that point.

949
01:02:17,140 --> 01:02:22,740
Yeah, I mean, it wasn't like a cataclysmic event that happened like, oh man, I really suck.

950
01:02:22,740 --> 01:02:27,440
I just started noticing like in the first three or four years,

951
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:31,840
just you go to a fire and it's like, fuck man, I shouldn't be getting this smoked

952
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:34,440
or like I shouldn't be burning through my cylinder this fast.

953
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:36,640
Like what is happening? Right.

954
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:41,740
And yeah, in the fire Academy, we were in gear all the time, but I don't think it was clicking yet.

955
01:02:41,740 --> 01:02:46,440
You know, I was just trying to I was still partying and I just wanted to kind of coast through

956
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:49,240
a fire Academy whatever.

957
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:53,440
But yeah, I think just after a few fires and just being out in the hot sun

958
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:57,640
and extrications for hours and hours at a time that I was like,

959
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,440
okay, I got to do something about this, right?

960
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:03,440
Okay, what's my great equalizer gear?

961
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:05,340
All right, cool. So how do I get better at something?

962
01:03:05,340 --> 01:03:07,440
I'm not good at do more of that thing.

963
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,740
So just getting gear every day, right?

964
01:03:09,740 --> 01:03:14,240
And back then it wasn't every day maybe three or four times a week or whatever it was, right?

965
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:16,040
Until it just became the norm, right?

966
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:21,040
And I was, you know, living in South Florida, hot and humid every single day for 11 months.

967
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:26,340
It's past the heat index that a lot of departments don't even let you train in every single day.

968
01:03:26,340 --> 01:03:27,740
So how do you stay acclimated?

969
01:03:27,740 --> 01:03:32,940
I was in gear every single day at three o'clock in the afternoon, not early mornings or late evenings

970
01:03:32,940 --> 01:03:39,940
because I wanted to be in the shit in the hottest time of the day to just stay acclimated to being in gear.

971
01:03:39,940 --> 01:03:42,140
And I sweat like crazy. You see me sweat.

972
01:03:42,140 --> 01:03:45,540
It looks like I jumped on a swimming pool. There's puddles all around me.

973
01:03:45,540 --> 01:03:47,540
So that's a whole nother factor too, right?

974
01:03:47,540 --> 01:03:53,640
So yeah, I just had to take it literally day by day and okay, I suck at being in gear.

975
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:57,540
I need to get good at being in gear and just never let off the gas ever since.

976
01:03:57,540 --> 01:04:03,740
Like when I first moved to Colorado, it was January and it was snowing and working out in gear was a luxury

977
01:04:03,740 --> 01:04:06,640
because it was so dang cold outside. So I was like, this is awesome.

978
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:12,340
This is cake. Now, this is zero factor. Bring me back to Florida now in the summertime.

979
01:04:12,340 --> 01:04:14,940
I might struggle a little bit, but.

980
01:04:14,940 --> 01:04:20,940
Well, you touched on something and I heard you mentioned the same thing on the student of the game podcast.

981
01:04:20,940 --> 01:04:23,040
I have said this exact same thing.

982
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:26,440
It's always just blow my mind in my last place I worked out was the worst.

983
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:31,940
Like some of the guys would be watching the thermometer and then they'd be fucking calling up the union.

984
01:04:31,940 --> 01:04:36,040
They're trying to make us train. And I'm just like, you've got to be fucking kidding me.

985
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:41,440
Every single day is like a hundred and whatever teen in our 10 month summer here.

986
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:46,240
And then you're going to go into a fire, which last time I checked fire was even harder.

987
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:48,640
And yet you've got people pushing against that.

988
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:55,040
Now, I'm not talking about beasting people without giving them time in the shade and hydration time to adopt the gear.

989
01:04:55,040 --> 01:05:02,640
Sensible, periodized training. But to be averse to rain, to be averse to darkness, to be averse to heat.

990
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:06,340
When that's exactly when you're most likely to get fires.

991
01:05:06,340 --> 01:05:11,340
And I fought fires and thunderstorms, you know, trying to try not to get shot carrying ladders from place to place.

992
01:05:11,340 --> 01:05:15,040
You know, it is what it is. Sometimes it's just going to suck.

993
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:19,540
What is your perception, again, of having worked in a state that has some of these,

994
01:05:19,540 --> 01:05:27,040
these, for lack of a better word, shackles that in my opinion completely detach you from what we are going to do

995
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:30,540
and make the real world harder than the training ground?

996
01:05:30,540 --> 01:05:35,840
Luckily, my department in South Florida wasn't like that, but I was around a lot of departments that were.

997
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:40,440
And it's irresponsible and naive to think like that, right?

998
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:46,140
Think about it. You burn, you cook a pizza, 425. I worked at a lot of fire camps in South Florida.

999
01:05:46,140 --> 01:05:49,340
You couldn't burn hotter than 500 degrees.

1000
01:05:49,340 --> 01:05:54,440
If somebody was there with a tick or they were watching the thermometer and if it got over 500, guess what?

1001
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:59,840
We're fucking opening all the windows and doors. You can't, God forbid we put these guys into something hotter than 500.

1002
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:02,940
So what's going to happen when they go to their first fire?

1003
01:06:02,940 --> 01:06:08,840
It's a real fire and it's 1200, 1500, 1800 degrees. Guess what's going to happen?

1004
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:12,040
They're not going to perform well. It's science, right?

1005
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:18,340
My lecture, I talk about this, Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman did a whole study about fear versus stress induced tachycardia, right?

1006
01:06:18,340 --> 01:06:25,940
If you're scared shitless and you're above 175 hardware, which is going to happen 100% your first fire

1007
01:06:25,940 --> 01:06:29,940
or if you're experienced stuff you're scared of, your cognitive thinking goes out the window.

1008
01:06:29,940 --> 01:06:35,540
Your fire motor skills goes out the window. You revert back to that like reptile brain, right?

1009
01:06:35,540 --> 01:06:39,640
It's fight or flight or freeze, submissive behavior, right?

1010
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:43,340
That's literally scientifically proven what's going to happen.

1011
01:06:43,340 --> 01:06:50,340
So for you to be in a training position, a chief position or whatever and put these as you call them shackles,

1012
01:06:50,340 --> 01:06:57,340
which I like that terminology and expect your guys and girls to be able to rise to the occasion and perform.

1013
01:06:57,340 --> 01:07:01,640
It's naive. It's irresponsible and basically plain stupid.

1014
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:10,140
It's science based, right? So how do we, how do we, I don't know how to fix that, but how do we make people better?

1015
01:07:10,140 --> 01:07:17,240
We have to put them in those conditions, real life scenarios, real life conditions in training, which is controlled.

1016
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:22,440
We're going to have rehab after we have medics on scene or whatever the case is, right?

1017
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:27,140
But we're going to put them in harder situations and hopefully they'll ever experience in real life.

1018
01:07:27,140 --> 01:07:33,940
Jaco talks about all the time. He would train his guys leading up to deployment so hard that when they went to frickin war,

1019
01:07:33,940 --> 01:07:38,540
it was easy air quotes for them compared to what Jaco put up during training.

1020
01:07:38,540 --> 01:07:44,040
I mean, that's like common sense 101. Let's make training harder than real life.

1021
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:48,340
Man, obviously I'm passionate about this, right?

1022
01:07:48,340 --> 01:07:54,040
Yeah, so I don't know how to fix it, but we have to be able to put people in these scenarios,

1023
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:58,540
in these situations because you're not going to rise to the occasion.

1024
01:07:58,540 --> 01:08:02,140
I don't care who you are. You're not a superhero. It's not happening.

1025
01:08:02,140 --> 01:08:04,540
You're going to revert back to what you know, to your training.

1026
01:08:04,540 --> 01:08:08,940
And if you've never experienced 1200, 1800 degree fire, guess what?

1027
01:08:08,940 --> 01:08:14,340
You're not going to perform well at all. And now you became from being the problem solver.

1028
01:08:14,340 --> 01:08:19,940
Now you became the problem. And now you're a liability to the scene, to the scenario or whatever is happening.

1029
01:08:19,940 --> 01:08:24,840
And you're not helping the citizens that called you. Not at all.

1030
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:31,540
In my career, I saw again in the worst departments that I worked for, it was just simply box checking.

1031
01:08:31,540 --> 01:08:36,640
In, for example, Anaheim, Hialeah, it was exactly that.

1032
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:38,940
We went through, you know, training constantly.

1033
01:08:38,940 --> 01:08:43,640
So Hialeah was just that, like I said, smoke diver experience and it was it was periodized again.

1034
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:51,040
So, for example, PT week one, I think we just did it with PT gear and maybe a helmet and gloves or something.

1035
01:08:51,040 --> 01:08:53,540
And then, you know, it was your bunker gear. Then it was your pack.

1036
01:08:53,540 --> 01:09:00,540
And by the time we're done, we're doing 10 pull ups on air, you know, full gear, go in the collapse maze and just people puking in the masks.

1037
01:09:00,540 --> 01:09:06,840
And, you know, it was it was rough. But, you know, again, you go out in the real world and you're like, oh, this is nice that small house is on fire.

1038
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:10,540
And this latter isn't too heavy now, you know, so it does reframe it.

1039
01:09:10,540 --> 01:09:15,040
And then Anaheim did a phenomenal job of just that one year probation.

1040
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:19,740
You were scared for your job for three hundred and sixty five days.

1041
01:09:19,740 --> 01:09:22,740
And it was again, it was diligent. There was there were tests.

1042
01:09:22,740 --> 01:09:32,140
There were you gave classes, you learned building construction, you cut and cut and cut and cut roofs so that you actually were an effective truck company that could go up there,

1043
01:09:32,140 --> 01:09:37,240
make a heat hole or a strip if you needed to get off because you understood when to get off.

1044
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:43,140
And so that diligence and training and that repetition created great firefighters,

1045
01:09:43,140 --> 01:09:47,640
which then an officer could turn around and go lay the bundles or cut me a strip.

1046
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:52,140
That's all they had to say. And off the firefighters go conversely.

1047
01:09:52,140 --> 01:09:57,640
This do it once and check the box and only do it when it's not too hot and it's not raining.

1048
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:04,040
You are absolutely setting people up to get hurt or killed when it comes to the real world.

1049
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:07,340
One hundred percent. And now you have to micromanage everybody, right?

1050
01:10:07,340 --> 01:10:09,940
Because you didn't you didn't train me to be a think environment.

1051
01:10:09,940 --> 01:10:15,240
You trained me to be basically a robot, right?

1052
01:10:15,240 --> 01:10:18,740
Hey, OK. So instead of just saying, hey, inside truck.

1053
01:10:18,740 --> 01:10:20,840
All right. Well, I know what that means. I'm going to go do the work. Right.

1054
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:25,340
Well, oh, hey, stretch a line or search the first floor or whatever it is.

1055
01:10:25,340 --> 01:10:33,240
Right. And so now you're micromanaging and micromanaging usually comes from a place of distrust and incompetency in your crew and your own skills.

1056
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:36,240
Right. I couldn't agree with you more.

1057
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:41,240
Like you have to train people harder in training and allow them to fail.

1058
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:44,540
OK. Good. This is what you didn't do. Great. All right.

1059
01:10:44,540 --> 01:10:47,140
Let's fix that. Now, let's run it again. All right. Cool.

1060
01:10:47,140 --> 01:10:51,640
And then we just polish it up, polish it up, polish it up, polish it up until it becomes second nature.

1061
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:54,240
Right. We do a mile ladder throw challenge every year.

1062
01:10:54,240 --> 01:11:00,340
And from day one to the end of the month, man, I got guys sending me pictures all sides of the building or ladder on a fire.

1063
01:11:00,340 --> 01:11:02,540
They're like, dude, I threw that ladder. I didn't even think about it.

1064
01:11:02,540 --> 01:11:06,340
You threw a ladder a mile. That's a long way to throw a ladder.

1065
01:11:06,340 --> 01:11:09,340
It's it's I'm really strong.

1066
01:11:09,340 --> 01:11:11,440
I want to see this video. Damn it.

1067
01:11:11,440 --> 01:11:13,440
All right. Well, talk about that.

1068
01:11:13,440 --> 01:11:18,540
But yeah, just being good at the basics, man, and and just under that stressful environment.

1069
01:11:18,540 --> 01:11:26,340
Right. Another study that I was reading that I put on my lecture, just putting your gear on increases your resting heart rate by 44 percent.

1070
01:11:26,340 --> 01:11:28,540
Just putting it on. Right.

1071
01:11:28,540 --> 01:11:35,240
And we all know the people that when they start putting their gear on there, they find every excuse to not put their gear on because they don't want to go to that fire.

1072
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:37,440
Oh, I forgot my mask over here. Let me run over here.

1073
01:11:37,440 --> 01:11:44,340
And they're going slow as hell. Man, I put my gear and I'm so excited because I'm about to go do some fun stuff.

1074
01:11:44,340 --> 01:11:46,040
I know it's not fun for the people calling on one.

1075
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:51,140
I understand that's not what I'm saying, but I get to go do what I love doing and I get to go do it good.

1076
01:11:51,140 --> 01:11:53,640
Right. So putting on your gear should be zero factor.

1077
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:58,640
We have to train people harder in training than in real life scenarios.

1078
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:03,040
We have to. So talk to me about your philosophy on the gear.

1079
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:13,340
What kind of gear are you training in and how are you trying to minimize exposure from the things that we're all fully aware that are detrimental to us when we sweat?

1080
01:12:13,340 --> 01:12:19,340
So when I don't I don't train in my front line gear, number one, one, because they're super expensive.

1081
01:12:19,340 --> 01:12:25,140
We all know I'm not trying to ruin front line gear and two, that's what sees the actual fires. Right.

1082
01:12:25,140 --> 01:12:27,940
I have expired gear or not expired gear grinder gear.

1083
01:12:27,940 --> 01:12:34,640
I have a bunch of sets. I still wash them on the regular, but I can't minimize more than that.

1084
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,140
I can't minimize what's in the gear.

1085
01:12:37,140 --> 01:12:40,940
I know there's manufacturers that make zero PFS free gear.

1086
01:12:40,940 --> 01:12:45,440
Great. And we can go down a whole rabbit hole of PFS, but PFS is literally in everything.

1087
01:12:45,440 --> 01:12:52,540
I mean all the cool car, hard shit you guys are all wearing all the Gore tech shit, all the hunting stuff that you're wearing, all the nonstick pants.

1088
01:12:52,540 --> 01:12:58,440
PFS is literally in everything and the people that are barking so hard about PFS,

1089
01:12:58,440 --> 01:13:02,340
I guarantee you they weren't training in gear before they found out about PFS.

1090
01:13:02,340 --> 01:13:07,340
I guarantee you that and I guarantee you they're probably chewing tobacco, which is known 100% to cause cancer.

1091
01:13:07,340 --> 01:13:09,340
PFS. We're not sure of yet. Right.

1092
01:13:09,340 --> 01:13:12,240
The studies aren't out yet on that.

1093
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:17,440
So for me, I have grinder gear training gear and I'm in it every day.

1094
01:13:17,440 --> 01:13:23,140
And if you're worried about PFS or whatever the case is, I understand cancer is a huge thing.

1095
01:13:23,140 --> 01:13:24,940
But think about all the line of duty deaths.

1096
01:13:24,940 --> 01:13:27,440
Most of them are cardiac related. Right. Why?

1097
01:13:27,440 --> 01:13:30,740
Because they're out of shape and fat. That's why most of them.

1098
01:13:30,740 --> 01:13:38,540
Right. So let's start putting our focus in on getting people fit and not belittling people that want to train in gear.

1099
01:13:38,540 --> 01:13:39,040
Right.

1100
01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:43,140
And if you're so worried about getting cancer, then this isn't the job for you.

1101
01:13:43,140 --> 01:13:44,940
Right. This isn't the job for you.

1102
01:13:44,940 --> 01:13:49,040
We took the oath. We swore to protect the citizens, not just get a what is it?

1103
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:51,140
A four day and a paycheck as some people call it.

1104
01:13:51,140 --> 01:13:53,340
Right. You swore to protect lives.

1105
01:13:53,340 --> 01:13:57,440
Right. That's our number one thing that we're supposed to save lives.

1106
01:13:57,440 --> 01:14:00,840
Right. So how do I get good at being in gear?

1107
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:02,240
There is no alternative.

1108
01:14:02,240 --> 01:14:07,440
You have to be in your gear. You have to wear sweatpants, sweatsuits, all that.

1109
01:14:07,440 --> 01:14:10,240
Okay, it's better than not wearing it.

1110
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:13,540
But again, it goes back to practicing like we play.

1111
01:14:13,540 --> 01:14:15,040
Right. You're not going to rise all of a sudden.

1112
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:17,440
You've never put your gear on since the fire Academy.

1113
01:14:17,440 --> 01:14:20,840
Four months later, you get a fire and you're just going to expect to be good at it.

1114
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:22,340
It's not happening. It's not realistic.

1115
01:14:22,340 --> 01:14:24,040
Scientifically not going to happen.

1116
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:29,440
Right. So me, I just, hey, I took the oath and I'm willing to take the risk.

1117
01:14:29,440 --> 01:14:31,040
Right. I'm going to take the risk.

1118
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:32,440
It's my choice.

1119
01:14:32,440 --> 01:14:35,240
If you don't want to work out in gear, fine.

1120
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:38,440
But don't put your opinions on other people.

1121
01:14:38,440 --> 01:14:46,040
If other people are willing to take that risk and want to get better and be good at their job and be good at this craft, let them do their thing.

1122
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:50,440
The issue I have with the PFAS thing and I had a great conversation with Rob Bellot,

1123
01:14:50,440 --> 01:14:55,840
who was the real lawyer in the Dark Waters film that they made.

1124
01:14:55,840 --> 01:15:01,040
And that was the real kind of, you know, whistleblowing of the immense impact that PFAS has.

1125
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:03,140
And these are forever chemicals and they're detrimental.

1126
01:15:03,140 --> 01:15:05,940
They're in everyone's body now pretty much around the world.

1127
01:15:05,940 --> 01:15:10,440
So it's a real thing. And obviously the answer is, hey, is there a way of not putting it in our gear anymore?

1128
01:15:10,440 --> 01:15:15,340
However, what I found is in the cancer conversation,

1129
01:15:15,340 --> 01:15:21,340
how convenient for departments just point at a manufacturer and go, oh, that's the reason.

1130
01:15:21,340 --> 01:15:23,140
And to me, it's like, well, wait a second.

1131
01:15:23,140 --> 01:15:27,340
Aren't you working your people 56 hours a week and then mandatory on top?

1132
01:15:27,340 --> 01:15:31,040
Are we going to fucking talk about sleep or are you just going to talk about forever chemicals now?

1133
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:33,840
Something you learned about six hours ago.

1134
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:36,840
So this is, you know, it's a good segue to the work week.

1135
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:39,840
This is what infuriates me. We have the mental health conversation.

1136
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:42,440
We talk about what we've seen. We have the cancer conversation.

1137
01:15:42,440 --> 01:15:46,640
We talk about clean cab, which again, when people understand what that is,

1138
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:50,440
absolutely has a, you know, has a place in the fire service.

1139
01:15:50,440 --> 01:15:54,140
This remove off gassing shit that we don't need to be breathing.

1140
01:15:54,140 --> 01:15:59,740
But if we're not talking about the resilience of the human being and even the obesity conversation,

1141
01:15:59,740 --> 01:16:01,840
that is also a sleep deprivation problem.

1142
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:05,340
You look at what happens to the endocrine system and we don't sleep.

1143
01:16:05,340 --> 01:16:08,440
A lot of our men and women are swimming upstream trying to lose weight,

1144
01:16:08,440 --> 01:16:11,340
but they can't because their hormones are completely fucked.

1145
01:16:11,340 --> 01:16:14,040
There's a portion of people in the fire service just shouldn't be there.

1146
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:15,740
They just don't want to do the job.

1147
01:16:15,740 --> 01:16:20,540
But there's a middle portion that just are just so fucking tired and they're gaining weight

1148
01:16:20,540 --> 01:16:24,040
and they're exhausted and you gave them the rest and recovery.

1149
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:26,240
They would be the ones that would probably turn around and go, you know what?

1150
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:29,040
I want to join you in the bay. I feel better today.

1151
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:33,940
So that's the the other conversation with the fit firefighter is given the rest and recovery.

1152
01:16:33,940 --> 01:16:39,240
So if you do want to be a hard charger, you're not breaking because if you don't sleep, you don't repair.

1153
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:43,640
So with that being said, I know we're jumping ahead because you've got a new schedule now.

1154
01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:48,940
John obviously Spira, you know, work the 2472 when he was in Boca.

1155
01:16:48,940 --> 01:16:54,740
Talk to me about your perception of the of the work week through your eyes.

1156
01:16:54,740 --> 01:17:01,540
I mean, like I said, I've never worked the 2472, but obviously listening to you a bunch and reading like all the research and stuff.

1157
01:17:01,540 --> 01:17:03,840
I know it's better for our recovery.

1158
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:07,840
So I came from a 2448 with the Kelly Day.

1159
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:09,940
You're either coming or you're going on that schedule.

1160
01:17:09,940 --> 01:17:12,740
You're either coming off shift or the day before shift.

1161
01:17:12,740 --> 01:17:19,840
You're getting ready to go to shift your mind and your body doesn't ever have a chance to kind of just exhale and settle in.

1162
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:21,440
Right. It's just I just got off shift.

1163
01:17:21,440 --> 01:17:23,640
I got my ass kicked. So there goes that day.

1164
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:27,740
And then the next day you're kind of trying to get everything ready or whatever you got to do around the house.

1165
01:17:27,740 --> 01:17:32,740
So there's never a rest full rest period on that schedule.

1166
01:17:32,740 --> 01:17:36,940
Right. And I came from a department that ran thirty thousand calls a year last year.

1167
01:17:36,940 --> 01:17:38,840
So I come to this new department.

1168
01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:41,140
They ran seven thousand calls a year.

1169
01:17:41,140 --> 01:17:44,740
Forty eight ninety six. Not so bad.

1170
01:17:44,740 --> 01:17:50,340
You know, yeah, we may have a crappy night, but it's usually not two crappy nights in a row for the most part.

1171
01:17:50,340 --> 01:17:52,240
Right. And then I got four days off.

1172
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:58,940
So even if I get smoked, I got a day to kill and I got three days to kind of just settle in and relax.

1173
01:17:58,940 --> 01:18:02,940
Right. Could I do a forty eight ninety six where I used to work?

1174
01:18:02,940 --> 01:18:05,040
No fucking way. No way.

1175
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:12,040
We'd be murdered. We'd have zero sleep both nights and you would just be a walking zombie for forty eight hours.

1176
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:14,240
What good is that for the citizen? Not good at all.

1177
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:19,340
Right. And we all know if you're working a forty eight ninety six, you get smashed on your first night.

1178
01:18:19,340 --> 01:18:22,340
Your second day is is basically fucked.

1179
01:18:22,340 --> 01:18:25,540
And then guess what? Your level of service starts going down.

1180
01:18:25,540 --> 01:18:28,940
Right. Zero sleep. Critical thinking.

1181
01:18:28,940 --> 01:18:33,140
Your fine motor skills. All that stuff. Cognitive thinking is just shit.

1182
01:18:33,140 --> 01:18:36,540
It's it's been like you said, you know, way more than I do about this.

1183
01:18:36,540 --> 01:18:39,340
I'm just very, very minimal that I know about the sleep stuff.

1184
01:18:39,340 --> 01:18:43,040
Right. But they say it's basically equivalent to being drunk.

1185
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:45,940
Right. So that's how we want our people.

1186
01:18:45,940 --> 01:18:48,640
We want our people drunk, responding to fires and saving your family.

1187
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:50,240
No, the answer is no. Right.

1188
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:56,640
So to me, just based on the studies and listening to you a bunch and all the research, 24 72 sounds awesome.

1189
01:18:56,640 --> 01:18:59,740
Talking to John Spear, he says it's the best schedule.

1190
01:18:59,740 --> 01:19:03,140
Plus, like he says, you're working a forty ninety six. You're kind of pacing yourself.

1191
01:19:03,140 --> 01:19:07,040
He calls it pacing for forty eight hours versus you come in for twenty four.

1192
01:19:07,040 --> 01:19:10,140
Hey, I'm here for twenty four. Let's fucking do it.

1193
01:19:10,140 --> 01:19:12,140
Just let it rip. Right. And just twenty four hours.

1194
01:19:12,140 --> 01:19:15,140
Boom. You're done. You go home. You can rest the day and you got two days off.

1195
01:19:15,140 --> 01:19:19,340
Awesome. So, yeah, I mean, to me, it makes common sense.

1196
01:19:19,340 --> 01:19:24,140
You care about the people you preach about your mission, vision, values that you care about us

1197
01:19:24,140 --> 01:19:27,540
and you want us to do great things and give us all the opportunities.

1198
01:19:27,540 --> 01:19:29,640
Well, why don't you give us the best thing for our sleep?

1199
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:32,240
A hundred percent. Beautiful. I couldn't agree more.

1200
01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:34,740
It's funny because there's a revolution beginning.

1201
01:19:34,740 --> 01:19:39,040
It's early, but beginning in Florida and we've got Boynton Beach just went to it.

1202
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:40,840
Gainesville is going in a few months time.

1203
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:43,340
Pasco is going in about a year after that.

1204
01:19:43,340 --> 01:19:47,240
And I've had people from all over the country reach out saying,

1205
01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:49,840
can you tell me about this again? Can you send me those episodes?

1206
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:52,840
And I'm like, absolutely. I can.

1207
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:57,340
Can I get that research? I love when you're talking about research.

1208
01:19:57,340 --> 01:19:58,440
Let me get this straight.

1209
01:19:58,440 --> 01:20:04,540
You need me to go to a lab to study whether forty two hours a week is healthier than fifty six hours a week.

1210
01:20:04,540 --> 01:20:07,440
Go away and think about that.

1211
01:20:07,440 --> 01:20:10,240
I love how you broke it down into eight hour work cycles.

1212
01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:13,540
Like when you broke it down like that, I was like genius.

1213
01:20:13,540 --> 01:20:15,040
Like that's so genius.

1214
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:16,240
And it's just it's a realization.

1215
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:20,740
I mean, I'm just, you know, all these great minds finally,

1216
01:20:20,740 --> 01:20:24,440
it put, you know, actually entered my tiny little monkey mind and I was like,

1217
01:20:24,440 --> 01:20:27,440
this is the problem. This is the myth that we've been telling ourselves.

1218
01:20:27,440 --> 01:20:31,940
So and even like you said that the first day when we go home, that's not a day off.

1219
01:20:31,940 --> 01:20:36,440
It's eight hours. Whatever shift schedule you're working that first day isn't a day off.

1220
01:20:36,440 --> 01:20:40,540
So as you said with the 24 72, it's two days that you're getting instead of one.

1221
01:20:40,540 --> 01:20:45,740
And I think that middle one would be gold because as you said, you go to bed with your family that night

1222
01:20:45,740 --> 01:20:50,040
and you wake up and of course you have things to do, but you're not thinking about getting up at five,

1223
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:54,340
packing all your shit, getting your food, you know, and then getting there hopefully,

1224
01:20:54,340 --> 01:21:00,040
you know, 30 minutes an hour before shift change to relieve the poor bastard that just got murdered for 24 hours before you.

1225
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:04,140
So if there's no downside for, you know, you've heard me preach about this,

1226
01:21:04,140 --> 01:21:09,540
but even financially these cities and counties are realizing that they're going to save a huge amount of money

1227
01:21:09,540 --> 01:21:15,840
by putting in another shift. So, you know, just it's down to just leadership, courageous leadership.

1228
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:20,640
Exactly. Exactly. They're in like, they want to pay the money up front, right?

1229
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:25,840
Like, you know, getting us better sleep. Hey, like you guys always talk about less workmen comp things,

1230
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:28,940
less work injuries, right? I mean, it's pays dividends, right?

1231
01:21:28,940 --> 01:21:32,040
That's just like investing in your people, right? Let's invest in their sleep.

1232
01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:35,040
Awesome. You're going to get paid dividends on the back end.

1233
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:40,840
100%. Well, another thing that we've got in common is, you know, you,

1234
01:21:40,840 --> 01:21:45,540
yeah, you were down in Marathon, you realized that you wanted to kind of broaden your,

1235
01:21:45,540 --> 01:21:47,840
you know, your ceiling as it were, raise your ceiling.

1236
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:55,540
Then you got to Florida and, you know, you're starting to have an experience that you're not loving 100%.

1237
01:21:55,540 --> 01:22:01,140
So talk to me about how you got to the point where you wanted to make the jump to Colorado

1238
01:22:01,140 --> 01:22:06,640
and then talk to me about your perspective of the carrot on the stick that is the pension.

1239
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:10,640
Because I've said, you know, my opinion a lot on this show and I'd never felt,

1240
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:13,040
I never even believed that I was going to collect a pension to be on.

1241
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:17,640
There was something in the back of my mind that they just didn't factor into why I became a firefighter.

1242
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:23,340
But I see so many of our men and women shift from that burning desire to serve

1243
01:22:23,340 --> 01:22:28,040
to a countdown app and drop programs and pencial conversations.

1244
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:34,040
So walk me through, you know, your whatever experience it was that made you make the jump

1245
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:43,340
and then, you know, how you perceive that courage at the age that you were to go through with it.

1246
01:22:43,340 --> 01:22:49,140
Yeah, I mean, like I said, like again, I was talking to somebody the other day that works in my old department.

1247
01:22:49,140 --> 01:22:55,040
They're like, man, you're getting a lot of hate for going on podcasts and telling everybody that this place is toxic.

1248
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:58,840
I'm like, well, one, I never mentioned the place, but two, that's probably because it's true.

1249
01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:03,840
Right. And I say I got the good bomb ass firemen that work in that department.

1250
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:07,740
But as a whole, it's a toxic organization. Right.

1251
01:23:07,740 --> 01:23:09,740
And I mean, just like little things.

1252
01:23:09,740 --> 01:23:14,840
And it became all the time like a common thing we used to say is the roster is not a weapon.

1253
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:16,940
We didn't have a bid system at that department.

1254
01:23:16,940 --> 01:23:21,940
They always cried that it wasn't a big enough department to have a bid system, which is not true.

1255
01:23:21,940 --> 01:23:25,540
There had been smaller departments with less stations that had bid systems.

1256
01:23:25,540 --> 01:23:31,740
They just didn't want to give up the power to move people when they were mad at them or angry at them and wanted to punish them.

1257
01:23:31,740 --> 01:23:34,840
So we always joke that the roster is not a weapon. Right.

1258
01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:38,740
So that's just one example. Right. And then just over time, right.

1259
01:23:38,740 --> 01:23:43,540
Like I was originally going to get vested talking about pensions.

1260
01:23:43,540 --> 01:23:45,940
You get vested at 10 years. That was my original plan.

1261
01:23:45,940 --> 01:23:47,940
And then, all right, let's make the move.

1262
01:23:47,940 --> 01:23:54,640
But after I was there seven years, about like six years, I was like, man, this this is this is not this is not fun.

1263
01:23:54,640 --> 01:23:57,240
I mean, I love my crew. My crew is awesome, thankfully.

1264
01:23:57,240 --> 01:24:00,040
But it's this is not a good organization to work for.

1265
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:03,840
They give two shits about us. We're just numbers.

1266
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:07,240
They don't care about us. What can I do? Right.

1267
01:24:07,240 --> 01:24:09,940
And everybody's like, dude, you can't leave. You got to get at least vested.

1268
01:24:09,940 --> 01:24:12,340
And I'm like, dude, it's not about the money.

1269
01:24:12,340 --> 01:24:16,640
Life is too short to be working and living somewhere where you don't love number one.

1270
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:18,740
And our careers even shorter.

1271
01:24:18,740 --> 01:24:25,540
So why are we going to be chasing the nickel to be miserable to get vested and then get the five year drop and all that shit?

1272
01:24:25,540 --> 01:24:27,540
So I said, you know what? Eff it.

1273
01:24:27,540 --> 01:24:30,040
And I left at seven years and didn't get vested.

1274
01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:34,640
And like I said earlier, zero regrets, not one frickin regret.

1275
01:24:34,640 --> 01:24:38,840
I took that money. I invest in the pension, rolling into another investment thing.

1276
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:40,740
Whatever. We're going to see what it does. Right.

1277
01:24:40,740 --> 01:24:45,040
I didn't care. But yeah, like you said, you'll see those guys.

1278
01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:49,040
They're just chasing, chasing that pension, chasing the money and they're doing this.

1279
01:24:49,040 --> 01:24:52,040
Obviously, they don't care about the job. They just want the money. Right.

1280
01:24:52,040 --> 01:24:59,640
And we can't change that. But I think it's it's important to point out that, again, life is too short.

1281
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:04,140
And our careers way too short to not be somewhere where you're happy and feel valued.

1282
01:25:04,140 --> 01:25:09,040
Just being valued alone, again, pays dividends for the department.

1283
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:13,840
If your department, your chief values you and truly means it,

1284
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:16,540
you will go to the end of the earth for this chief. Right.

1285
01:25:16,540 --> 01:25:22,340
Like the chief I have now, I will do whatever is required because that chief has our backs,

1286
01:25:22,340 --> 01:25:28,240
loves us all, knows all our names, knows all about our family and does a bunch of little things

1287
01:25:28,240 --> 01:25:32,240
that make it known that he cares about us. Right.

1288
01:25:32,240 --> 01:25:35,040
So, yeah, like I've had many conversations with people.

1289
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:38,640
Hey, man, Marcos, I'm thinking I'm not happy. Then go. Right.

1290
01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:42,840
That old cliche term, change the department or change your department. Right.

1291
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:46,840
If you're trying to create change and you can't change it, go.

1292
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:50,940
But you have to have the courage. And somebody's like, man, it was ballsy for to do what you did.

1293
01:25:50,940 --> 01:25:53,040
Oh, you did it because you didn't have kids. So it was easier.

1294
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:55,340
OK, yes, I'll give you that. I didn't have kids.

1295
01:25:55,340 --> 01:26:00,240
I had to worry about that. But at the end of the day, if you're miserable, guess what?

1296
01:26:00,240 --> 01:26:04,540
It's probably trickling down to your spouse, probably trickling down to your kids

1297
01:26:04,540 --> 01:26:08,840
and affecting them negatively in some way or somehow guarantee you that. Right.

1298
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:12,740
Yeah, it was ballsy. But again, I don't have to worry about my fitness level.

1299
01:26:12,740 --> 01:26:15,340
They told me worst case scenario, you might have to go to Academy.

1300
01:26:15,340 --> 01:26:18,740
OK, 12 weeks of doing basic fireman shit.

1301
01:26:18,740 --> 01:26:21,640
All right. No big deal. Zero factor. Right.

1302
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:27,140
So, again, leaning back on that fitness, as long as you're fit and to perform on the fire ground,

1303
01:26:27,140 --> 01:26:31,540
you're able to grab opportunities that could be presented to you versus,

1304
01:26:31,540 --> 01:26:37,140
oh, I got to train up for the Academy or I got to train up for the CPAT. Right.

1305
01:26:37,140 --> 01:26:40,440
So, yeah, I just said, effort, try to make it happen.

1306
01:26:40,440 --> 01:26:46,640
We were hoping by the end of 23, this September is when we were here of 22 on vacation.

1307
01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:49,040
We're like, oh, let's see if we can make it happen by 23.

1308
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:53,640
By November, my wife already had a job. I said, fuck it. Let's go.

1309
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:56,340
I was like, oh, first I was going to fly back and forth between Caledonia.

1310
01:26:56,340 --> 01:26:58,640
She's like, I was like, you're cool with me just resigning.

1311
01:26:58,640 --> 01:27:02,040
She's like, yeah, flew out in December, had three interviews,

1312
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:05,340
had a job already after my first interview. And that's where I work now.

1313
01:27:05,340 --> 01:27:08,840
I knew this is where I wanted to work. Sold our house in a week.

1314
01:27:08,840 --> 01:27:11,540
Easiest thing I'd ever done. Both my wife and I will tell you,

1315
01:27:11,540 --> 01:27:15,740
easiest thing we've ever done is move across the country and zero regrets.

1316
01:27:15,740 --> 01:27:19,340
So if you're even thinking about it, it's not about the money.

1317
01:27:19,340 --> 01:27:22,340
You can't take it with you. Right. You can't take the money with you.

1318
01:27:22,340 --> 01:27:27,040
It's all about being happy. So that's that's my two cents on that.

1319
01:27:27,040 --> 01:27:28,640
I guess if you want to call it that.

1320
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:31,240
No, but it's an important perspective because you don't hear it that often,

1321
01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:33,840
especially someone who's later in their career.

1322
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:39,140
But there's so many people I know that are great, great firefighters.

1323
01:27:39,140 --> 01:27:42,440
It's their environment. It's the department that they work in

1324
01:27:42,440 --> 01:27:45,940
that is dragging them down, you know, I mean, just over and over and over again.

1325
01:27:45,940 --> 01:27:49,040
And so that, you know, people say, oh, the grass is always greener.

1326
01:27:49,040 --> 01:27:52,640
Not always greener, but sometimes it is. It's green and lush.

1327
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:55,640
And I think you've got to figure out why is it that I want to move?

1328
01:27:55,640 --> 01:27:59,940
And I never forget the bar that was set in Anaheim.

1329
01:27:59,940 --> 01:28:05,140
And I didn't dislike Hialeah for anything other than I couldn't speak Spanish.

1330
01:28:05,140 --> 01:28:08,940
And ninety nine point nine percent of the calls were done in Spanish.

1331
01:28:08,940 --> 01:28:13,540
And, you know, clearly the the at the time, the political environment,

1332
01:28:13,540 --> 01:28:15,840
those poor guys were getting paid next to nothing.

1333
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:19,040
You know, and there was, you know, that you could feel it.

1334
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:20,140
You could feel the tension.

1335
01:28:20,140 --> 01:28:22,840
And they were, you know, the morale wasn't good at that time.

1336
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:25,140
So I had an opportunity to go out west and I did.

1337
01:28:25,140 --> 01:28:27,340
But it was just night and day.

1338
01:28:27,340 --> 01:28:31,640
And then, you know, the Hialeah firefighters I served alongside are phenomenal.

1339
01:28:31,640 --> 01:28:35,540
Because I always say despite the department, there's still an incredible fire department.

1340
01:28:35,540 --> 01:28:39,140
That's that really says something when you had zero support back then.

1341
01:28:39,140 --> 01:28:43,940
But the bar was so high in Anaheim that you were excited.

1342
01:28:43,940 --> 01:28:47,840
You were like, oh, my God, I could get fired like for a whole year.

1343
01:28:47,840 --> 01:28:51,140
And I see some of my classmates getting let go, let go, let go.

1344
01:28:51,140 --> 01:28:54,740
The 25 percent of us would be gone every year of the new hire class.

1345
01:28:54,740 --> 01:28:59,640
So that's, you know, but it it really did pull you in.

1346
01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:02,340
And like you said about the trust, like the people running training

1347
01:29:02,340 --> 01:29:05,240
were other firefighters and engineers and captains.

1348
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:09,140
You know, it was it was totally hands off by the upper administration.

1349
01:29:09,140 --> 01:29:12,140
But I couldn't have been happier, you know.

1350
01:29:12,140 --> 01:29:17,440
And then sadly, what happened for me is I was chasing that dream department after Orange County was

1351
01:29:17,440 --> 01:29:21,540
it was a mixed bag, some phenomenal firefighters in that department.

1352
01:29:21,540 --> 01:29:25,840
But again, you know, the the leadership side has gone up and down.

1353
01:29:25,840 --> 01:29:27,140
Chief Drozd was there for a while.

1354
01:29:27,140 --> 01:29:30,140
It was awesome. And then they threw him out and it's shit again.

1355
01:29:30,140 --> 01:29:34,540
And then the last place I worked for couldn't have been further from Anaheim,

1356
01:29:34,540 --> 01:29:36,340
the other end of the spectrum, you know.

1357
01:29:36,340 --> 01:29:38,840
So it's heartbreaking as well. When you found that good one,

1358
01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:42,740
it was geography that took me back going back after we have my son back to Florida.

1359
01:29:42,740 --> 01:29:47,840
But, you know, but it's like you said, it's not scary.

1360
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:51,140
If you are if you are unhappy, that's your answer.

1361
01:29:51,140 --> 01:29:54,740
If it's momentary, then yeah, take some time, you know, reevaluate.

1362
01:29:54,740 --> 01:29:57,340
Think about, you know, can I change stations? Can I change crews?

1363
01:29:57,340 --> 01:30:01,840
But if you are dying in that environment and you want to be along other people

1364
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:06,240
who think the way that you do, there are, you know, thousands of fire departments

1365
01:30:06,240 --> 01:30:08,640
in this country, you know, go out there and make it happen.

1366
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:12,640
Yeah, you can you can only be positive for so long, right?

1367
01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:18,140
Like being around negative people every single day starts wearing on you.

1368
01:30:18,140 --> 01:30:22,240
And I've seen some great ass firemen just get pretty much smothered down

1369
01:30:22,240 --> 01:30:24,840
with the negativity and the toxicity in departments, right?

1370
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:28,140
And you take them out of that, put them in another department and boom,

1371
01:30:28,140 --> 01:30:30,340
it's like they flourish all of a sudden, right?

1372
01:30:30,340 --> 01:30:33,140
And it was there the same firemen. It's just that environment they're in, right?

1373
01:30:33,140 --> 01:30:37,540
And I can't tell you how many times after talking a couple times online

1374
01:30:37,540 --> 01:30:39,640
and just people, hey, this is what's happening.

1375
01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:43,040
I'm like, if you're even thinking about it, there's your answer, right?

1376
01:30:43,040 --> 01:30:46,240
There's your now if you just had a bad day or whatever.

1377
01:30:46,240 --> 01:30:49,440
Yeah, like you said, take some time, evaluate what's really happening.

1378
01:30:49,440 --> 01:30:52,340
But if this is like a burning thing, you're constantly not happy.

1379
01:30:52,340 --> 01:30:55,840
You're dreading coming to work every single day.

1380
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:59,240
This is the coolest job in the world for people like you and I.

1381
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:01,140
It's not for everybody. That's number one.

1382
01:31:01,140 --> 01:31:04,240
We have to stop telling everybody that they can do this job for sure,

1383
01:31:04,240 --> 01:31:06,440
because this is not for everybody.

1384
01:31:06,440 --> 01:31:09,540
But for people like you and I, this is the best job in the world.

1385
01:31:09,540 --> 01:31:13,440
I shouldn't dread coming to work because I hate the people I work with

1386
01:31:13,440 --> 01:31:15,240
or I hate the people I work for.

1387
01:31:15,240 --> 01:31:17,340
You should love coming to work every single day.

1388
01:31:17,340 --> 01:31:19,140
Yeah, we all have our bad days. I get it.

1389
01:31:19,140 --> 01:31:20,440
I understand that.

1390
01:31:20,440 --> 01:31:24,340
But man, nine day difference coming out here versus where I used to work.

1391
01:31:24,340 --> 01:31:25,640
Night and day difference.

1392
01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:27,440
100 percent beautiful.

1393
01:31:27,440 --> 01:31:30,340
All right. Well, then I want to get to hard knocks hitters.

1394
01:31:30,340 --> 01:31:33,340
So we walked you through your kind of fitness journey.

1395
01:31:33,340 --> 01:31:36,540
You know, you've done the Georgia Smoke Divers, you've done a hundred mile run.

1396
01:31:36,540 --> 01:31:39,040
So you've you've kind of really explored a lot of areas

1397
01:31:39,040 --> 01:31:40,340
when it comes to strength and conditioning.

1398
01:31:40,340 --> 01:31:44,740
You've got exercise physiology background from a higher education perspective as well.

1399
01:31:44,740 --> 01:31:49,940
Talk to me about what you what made you finally put out programming for the fire service.

1400
01:31:49,940 --> 01:31:53,440
So I've been personal training,

1401
01:31:53,440 --> 01:31:58,440
teaching boot camps, even got my CrossFit level one coaching, whatever that means.

1402
01:31:58,440 --> 01:32:01,740
You go to a weekend class and now you're a coach.

1403
01:32:01,740 --> 01:32:06,140
Kind of a joke. But so I've been teaching for a long time in the fitness industry, right?

1404
01:32:06,140 --> 01:32:09,340
Group fitness classes and all that kind of stuff.

1405
01:32:09,340 --> 01:32:14,340
And I've been doing online custom, like one on one training for people for a while.

1406
01:32:14,340 --> 01:32:18,940
And I've been kind of thinking about putting out a set program.

1407
01:32:18,940 --> 01:32:22,240
Like my hard knocks hitter program and talking to my buddy Logan Broberg.

1408
01:32:22,240 --> 01:32:23,940
He kind of encouraged me to do that.

1409
01:32:23,940 --> 01:32:27,840
He basically walked me through how to set it up online and all this stuff.

1410
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:29,440
So I had the website and all that stuff.

1411
01:32:29,440 --> 01:32:36,340
And and basically it's a 12 week program, five workouts a week, mostly gear based.

1412
01:32:36,340 --> 01:32:41,140
And when I say gear based, it's mostly coat and pants because not everybody has an air pack.

1413
01:32:41,140 --> 01:32:48,340
I understand that. And the whole point of this program is to improve fire ground performance.

1414
01:32:48,340 --> 01:32:49,640
Right. So you're not going to bench.

1415
01:32:49,640 --> 01:32:51,640
We're not going to do bro lifts. None of that stuff.

1416
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:53,240
We're doing. Yeah, we're going to squat heavy.

1417
01:32:53,240 --> 01:32:56,540
And by heavy, I mean three sets of 20 reps.

1418
01:32:56,540 --> 01:32:59,140
That's which I love with three sets of 20 reps.

1419
01:32:59,140 --> 01:33:00,940
People are like, dude, most I've ever done is like 12.

1420
01:33:00,940 --> 01:33:02,440
Yeah, we're going to get you strong.

1421
01:33:02,440 --> 01:33:05,540
We're going to get your leg strong because that's the foundation for carrying all the stuff.

1422
01:33:05,540 --> 01:33:10,940
Right. And the great thing about my program is it could be from somebody starting out working out today.

1423
01:33:10,940 --> 01:33:12,840
Day one. So it's scalable up and down.

1424
01:33:12,840 --> 01:33:15,040
Right. So you can start and we call it slick.

1425
01:33:15,040 --> 01:33:20,740
So PT clothes. So you could do everything slick if you wanted minimal equipment is needed for it.

1426
01:33:20,740 --> 01:33:21,440
And I got smoked.

1427
01:33:21,440 --> 01:33:22,540
Everybody's are on the program.

1428
01:33:22,540 --> 01:33:23,640
So they scale it up.

1429
01:33:23,640 --> 01:33:33,140
So they do everything full gear boots, pants, coat, helmet, gloves, mask, hood, pack, the whole deal.

1430
01:33:33,140 --> 01:33:37,240
So and like if people join and they're just getting into their fitness journey,

1431
01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:39,140
they go through the 12 week program.

1432
01:33:39,140 --> 01:33:41,640
You just pay it once to one time fee. It's not every 12 weeks.

1433
01:33:41,640 --> 01:33:42,640
You got to pay this thing.

1434
01:33:42,640 --> 01:33:43,440
It's 50 bucks.

1435
01:33:43,440 --> 01:33:44,640
Eighty four cents of workouts.

1436
01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:46,440
One of my friends broke it down for me.

1437
01:33:46,440 --> 01:33:47,940
I hadn't even broke it down to that.

1438
01:33:47,940 --> 01:33:50,840
And then you just start over again and then you start leveling up your gear.

1439
01:33:50,840 --> 01:33:53,740
Right. So that's kind of where it came from.

1440
01:33:53,740 --> 01:33:54,340
That's where I started.

1441
01:33:54,340 --> 01:33:59,940
I think I put it out like in November, December after Logan helped me put it all together.

1442
01:33:59,940 --> 01:34:01,540
I've had hard knocks Sunday forever.

1443
01:34:01,540 --> 01:34:03,540
It started out back in like 2011.

1444
01:34:03,540 --> 01:34:07,140
I was throwing on free boot camp every month at local gyms,

1445
01:34:07,140 --> 01:34:10,940
just promoting local gyms around the area in South Florida where I was at.

1446
01:34:10,940 --> 01:34:16,540
And that's where that hard knocks Sunday came from because it was the third Sunday of the month.

1447
01:34:16,540 --> 01:34:18,640
And I kind of just kept that.

1448
01:34:18,640 --> 01:34:20,640
So, yeah, that's in a nutshell what it is.

1449
01:34:20,640 --> 01:34:21,740
It's that 12 week program.

1450
01:34:21,740 --> 01:34:26,140
And then pretty soon I'm going to put out a calisthenics only all gear workout

1451
01:34:26,140 --> 01:34:27,540
because some of my smoked our buddies like,

1452
01:34:27,540 --> 01:34:32,240
dude, you know what you need to do is put a 12 week calisthenics only full gear for all the workouts.

1453
01:34:32,240 --> 01:34:34,140
I'm like, all right, we'll probably do that then.

1454
01:34:34,140 --> 01:34:36,140
And again, that can be scaled up or down too.

1455
01:34:36,140 --> 01:34:36,640
Right.

1456
01:34:36,640 --> 01:34:40,540
So you could do it anywhere the hotel you're traveling whatever.

1457
01:34:40,540 --> 01:34:44,040
And the reason I wrote mine with minimal equipment is because I wanted most people to be able to do it.

1458
01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:46,740
Not everybody has a bad ass home gym like I do.

1459
01:34:46,740 --> 01:34:49,540
Where can people find that?

1460
01:34:49,540 --> 01:34:52,340
So if you're following me on Instagram, it's hard knocks Sunday dot com.

1461
01:34:52,340 --> 01:34:56,340
There's links in my bio for that or just hard knocks Sunday dot com.

1462
01:34:56,340 --> 01:35:02,340
And then like I'll take it all my programs, all the merch, I call it whatever stickers.

1463
01:35:02,340 --> 01:35:03,040
We got hats.

1464
01:35:03,040 --> 01:35:05,140
We're about to get shirts made and all that kind of stuff.

1465
01:35:05,140 --> 01:35:10,340
So yeah, hard knocks Sunday dot com or just hard knocks Sunday on Instagram and then the links in the bio too.

1466
01:35:10,340 --> 01:35:12,440
So brilliant.

1467
01:35:12,440 --> 01:35:12,740
All right.

1468
01:35:12,740 --> 01:35:16,140
I want to throw some quick closing questions at you if you got time.

1469
01:35:16,140 --> 01:35:17,940
Yeah, I got all the time, whatever you need.

1470
01:35:17,940 --> 01:35:18,440
Brilliant.

1471
01:35:18,440 --> 01:35:18,740
All right.

1472
01:35:18,740 --> 01:35:22,640
First one, is there a book or are there books that you love to recommend?

1473
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:26,940
It can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated.

1474
01:35:26,940 --> 01:35:29,140
Yeah, 100 percent, man.

1475
01:35:29,140 --> 01:35:33,640
One of my favorite books is called The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter.

1476
01:35:33,640 --> 01:35:35,140
I freaking love that book.

1477
01:35:35,140 --> 01:35:42,640
For those of you who haven't read it, he talks about how everything in our life is designed to make our lives comfortable, right?

1478
01:35:42,640 --> 01:35:45,240
Air conditioned seats, heated seats, heated steering wheel.

1479
01:35:45,240 --> 01:35:46,840
Everything in our life is created for comfort.

1480
01:35:46,840 --> 01:35:48,940
Drive-throughs like now Zoom, right?

1481
01:35:48,940 --> 01:35:50,440
Everything's about comfort.

1482
01:35:50,440 --> 01:35:54,540
And he goes back to the samurai days and it's called a misogi.

1483
01:35:54,540 --> 01:35:59,040
And what it is is you do, he does one a year and there's only two rules for this thing.

1484
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:02,940
You can't die doing it and you got a 50-50 shot of finishing it.

1485
01:36:02,940 --> 01:36:06,040
So everybody's misogi is going to be different, right?

1486
01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:08,440
Somebody's misogi might be doing a 5K.

1487
01:36:08,440 --> 01:36:09,140
Awesome.

1488
01:36:09,140 --> 01:36:10,440
Whatever, right?

1489
01:36:10,440 --> 01:36:15,740
My misogi, some of mine were the 100-Miler, Georgia Smoke Diver.

1490
01:36:15,740 --> 01:36:16,740
So those are some of mine.

1491
01:36:16,740 --> 01:36:23,640
But yeah, I love that book because it just resonates so hard that everything in this life and our minds want everything to be easy, right?

1492
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:27,540
So it's just going back to that mental fortitude and just doing hard shit.

1493
01:36:27,540 --> 01:36:31,140
Doing hard shit makes us stronger physically and mentally.

1494
01:36:31,140 --> 01:36:33,940
So I love that book.

1495
01:36:33,940 --> 01:36:36,240
I mean, that's probably one of my favorite books.

1496
01:36:36,240 --> 01:36:40,040
Obviously all the Jockos, Skoggins books, all those guys.

1497
01:36:40,040 --> 01:36:42,740
Endure by Cam Haynes is great.

1498
01:36:42,740 --> 01:36:44,940
Nick Gleyber, he won Objective Secure.

1499
01:36:44,940 --> 01:36:48,140
He's the Green Bray that lost his leg and freaking full comeback.

1500
01:36:48,140 --> 01:36:53,040
The only guy ever to freaking come back to active duty in SF with a missing leg.

1501
01:36:53,040 --> 01:36:58,340
Like if that doesn't tell you about his strength and mental fortitude, I don't know what it does, man.

1502
01:36:58,340 --> 01:37:03,240
So if you feel sorry for yourself, read some of these books and you'll be all right.

1503
01:37:03,240 --> 01:37:05,440
Absolutely. Yeah, Nick Gleyber is someone I still want to get on.

1504
01:37:05,440 --> 01:37:08,340
I had Michael Easter on probably like a year ago now.

1505
01:37:08,340 --> 01:37:13,140
But it's funny when you're talking about the rules of misogi, I feel like that's what Pfizer did when they made their vaccines.

1506
01:37:13,140 --> 01:37:16,240
Try not to kill anyone and it can work 50% of the time.

1507
01:37:16,240 --> 01:37:19,340
Yeah, that's about right.

1508
01:37:19,340 --> 01:37:21,040
All right. Well, then next question.

1509
01:37:21,040 --> 01:37:25,140
What about movies and documentaries?

1510
01:37:25,140 --> 01:37:32,140
Man, one movie I my wife and I love and totally caught us off guard.

1511
01:37:32,140 --> 01:37:34,140
It's called Peanut Butter Falcon.

1512
01:37:34,140 --> 01:37:35,940
I don't know if you've seen this or not.

1513
01:37:35,940 --> 01:37:40,940
It's about and this actor is he's I think he has Down syndrome.

1514
01:37:40,940 --> 01:37:43,240
So don't don't kill me if I get it wrong.

1515
01:37:43,240 --> 01:37:50,240
But he has some kind of disability and he plays basically the gist of this movie is he didn't have a family.

1516
01:37:50,240 --> 01:37:53,040
So the system put him in this old person home for some reason.

1517
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:56,740
He was the only disabled mentally disabled adult in this.

1518
01:37:56,740 --> 01:37:58,140
But everybody else was just old.

1519
01:37:58,140 --> 01:38:00,040
And then basically he escapes.

1520
01:38:00,040 --> 01:38:04,040
And I think it's Shia LaBeouf that's in the movie also.

1521
01:38:04,040 --> 01:38:08,440
And he basically finds him and Shia LaBeouf is kind of like this piece of shit kind of guy.

1522
01:38:08,440 --> 01:38:12,240
But he somehow finds this guy and then takes him under his wing and basically cares for him.

1523
01:38:12,240 --> 01:38:18,540
And it's just funny and like pulls at your heartstrings and totally caught my wife and I off guard.

1524
01:38:18,540 --> 01:38:20,740
And now we've watched it several times.

1525
01:38:20,740 --> 01:38:21,940
So Peanut Butter Falcon, man.

1526
01:38:21,940 --> 01:38:23,840
If you haven't seen it, it's a great ass movie.

1527
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:24,540
I've never heard of it.

1528
01:38:24,540 --> 01:38:25,240
I'm going to have to watch it.

1529
01:38:25,240 --> 01:38:30,240
But that reminds me of when whenever I got hurt as a firefight, you'd find yourself in a physical therapy place.

1530
01:38:30,240 --> 01:38:32,540
Just you and a bunch of old people in Ocala.

1531
01:38:32,540 --> 01:38:34,840
So I can relate already.

1532
01:38:34,840 --> 01:38:37,740
Yeah, that's where I was at 3D Surgeon 2019.

1533
01:38:37,740 --> 01:38:41,440
I was like, can you send me to somewhere where they train athletes, not old people, please.

1534
01:38:41,440 --> 01:38:42,040
They were sweet.

1535
01:38:42,040 --> 01:38:42,940
They have some sweethearts.

1536
01:38:42,940 --> 01:38:47,540
But yeah, they didn't understand, you know, the people working there, the demands that we needed to get to.

1537
01:38:47,540 --> 01:38:49,540
So I have to guide them.

1538
01:38:49,540 --> 01:38:49,840
All right.

1539
01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:55,940
Well, the next question, is there a person you'd recommend to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders,

1540
01:38:55,940 --> 01:38:59,240
military and associated professions of the world?

1541
01:38:59,240 --> 01:39:00,040
Yeah, 100 percent.

1542
01:39:00,040 --> 01:39:06,740
So my buddies, Jesse and Micah Horton from Horton and Horton H and H.

1543
01:39:06,740 --> 01:39:08,840
I was actually I was on their podcast.

1544
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:11,140
Their podcast was the first one I ever did.

1545
01:39:11,140 --> 01:39:13,840
They're outside of Reno.

1546
01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:15,040
Jesse and Micah Horton, man.

1547
01:39:15,040 --> 01:39:19,040
Those guys are passionate about the fire service.

1548
01:39:19,040 --> 01:39:21,940
Love teaching, love training.

1549
01:39:21,940 --> 01:39:22,840
I went out there.

1550
01:39:22,840 --> 01:39:24,840
They do Jiu Jitsu.

1551
01:39:24,840 --> 01:39:29,740
They're just savages and just good ass solid real people.

1552
01:39:29,740 --> 01:39:33,240
So I would definitely recommend you having them out for sure.

1553
01:39:33,240 --> 01:39:36,440
Are they Jesse and Micah, they related?

1554
01:39:36,440 --> 01:39:37,040
Yeah, they're brothers.

1555
01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:37,440
Okay.

1556
01:39:37,440 --> 01:39:40,340
I want to assume that they were both males, you know, it could be.

1557
01:39:40,340 --> 01:39:40,540
All right.

1558
01:39:40,540 --> 01:39:41,740
Yeah, Jesse and Micah Horton.

1559
01:39:41,740 --> 01:39:47,540
So Jesse's the older brother, but he's been in the fire service less time.

1560
01:39:47,540 --> 01:39:49,640
Micah is the younger brother and he's a battalion chief.

1561
01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:52,140
They work the same department.

1562
01:39:52,140 --> 01:39:55,540
And yeah, they're just they're just awesome real dudes and love it.

1563
01:39:55,540 --> 01:39:57,240
Love the job.

1564
01:39:57,240 --> 01:39:57,940
Love the profession.

1565
01:39:57,940 --> 01:40:00,840
Love sharing knowledge and great dudes, man.

1566
01:40:00,840 --> 01:40:01,340
Fantastic.

1567
01:40:01,340 --> 01:40:04,740
I would definitely recommend getting them on them and him and Logan Broberg, man.

1568
01:40:04,740 --> 01:40:06,540
Logan Broberg is another great dude.

1569
01:40:06,540 --> 01:40:08,540
Good friend of mine also.

1570
01:40:08,540 --> 01:40:11,040
Yeah, you know, I've never actually met him, but he comes up all the time.

1571
01:40:11,040 --> 01:40:14,240
We've got a lot of mutual friends and I know in all of the smoke diver pictures,

1572
01:40:14,240 --> 01:40:16,040
he's there, you know, used a lot.

1573
01:40:16,040 --> 01:40:17,740
So yeah, absolutely.

1574
01:40:17,740 --> 01:40:18,040
All right.

1575
01:40:18,040 --> 01:40:25,140
Well, then the next question or the last question actually, what do you do to decompress?

1576
01:40:25,140 --> 01:40:31,340
Well, now that I live in Colorado, I have the luxury of hey, you want to go snowboarding

1577
01:40:31,340 --> 01:40:35,940
like we went snowboarding last Wednesday, the Wednesday before just getting away,

1578
01:40:35,940 --> 01:40:41,440
just getting on the mountains in the summertime, love hiking things like that.

1579
01:40:41,440 --> 01:40:43,940
And just working out working out gear.

1580
01:40:43,940 --> 01:40:50,240
That's that's my if I don't work out like if I miss a day, maybe I never miss two days.

1581
01:40:50,240 --> 01:40:52,140
But if I were to miss two days, it wouldn't be good.

1582
01:40:52,140 --> 01:40:56,040
Or so that's just for my own mental sanity is like that's my fix, right?

1583
01:40:56,040 --> 01:41:00,140
Working out just doing hard shit and struggling and suffering.

1584
01:41:00,140 --> 01:41:01,140
Brilliant.

1585
01:41:01,140 --> 01:41:02,940
Well, Marcus, I want to say thank you so much.

1586
01:41:02,940 --> 01:41:05,740
It's been such an amazing conversation.

1587
01:41:05,740 --> 01:41:11,140
I like, you know, when I have someone like you, we can really kind of pull pull the bandage

1588
01:41:11,140 --> 01:41:12,340
off the whole fitness thing.

1589
01:41:12,340 --> 01:41:17,640
I mean, to me, it's insane that, you know, we have I've got all these operators that

1590
01:41:17,640 --> 01:41:21,340
have been on from the British Special Forces and the US and Australian and then you got

1591
01:41:21,340 --> 01:41:25,640
Ocean Life Guards and every single one of them is held to an extremely high standard.

1592
01:41:25,640 --> 01:41:31,340
But when it comes to fitness, fire, police, EMS, we not only don't have one, we have unions

1593
01:41:31,340 --> 01:41:33,240
that will even actively oppose it.

1594
01:41:33,240 --> 01:41:38,140
So it's always important to have the conversation about where the bar should be.

1595
01:41:38,140 --> 01:41:40,680
And if it's not there, where it should be put back to.

1596
01:41:40,680 --> 01:41:44,100
So I want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time today and coming on

1597
01:41:44,100 --> 01:41:45,900
the Behind the Shield podcast.

1598
01:41:45,900 --> 01:41:50,440
Hey, James, like I said, man, I'm super humbled that you even invited me and asked me on here

1599
01:41:50,440 --> 01:41:51,940
and I really appreciate your time.

1600
01:41:51,940 --> 01:41:52,940
Seriously.

1601
01:41:52,940 --> 01:41:53,940
So thank you.

1602
01:41:53,940 --> 01:42:14,940
It's with pleasure