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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast as always.
My name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show,
parkour athlete, stuntman and one of the stunt doubles for Ryan Gosling in the Fall Guy,
Ben Jenkin.
Now I just went to watch that film after being an avid fan of the show when I was a little
boy and was blown away by so many elements.
A, it was a fantastic film.
B, if you're even remotely connected to the stunt world, there were so many Easter eggs
in that show and most importantly it was an homage to the incredible men and women behind
so many of our stars.
So in this conversation we discuss a host of topics from Ben's early life, the backyard
gym that paved his road to parkour and ultimately stunts, his journey into making films, some
incredible behind the scenes stories from the Fall Guy, recognizing our stunt performers,
safety on set and so much more.
Now before we get to this incredible conversation as I say every week, please just take a moment,
go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and
leave a rating.
Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for
others to find and this is a free library of well over 900 episodes now.
So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so
I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.
So with that being said, I introduce to you Ben Jenkin.
Enjoy.
Well Ben, I want to start by saying thank you so much for taking the time to come on
the Behind the Shield podcast today.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, I've been looking forward to it for a while.
So yeah, thanks for having me.
Well we're going to get to the Fall Guy, which you just worked on amongst many, many other
things.
I want to obviously walk in, walk your journey right through from the beginning.
But just as a preface, as a stunt man, as a little boy who grew up watching the Fall
Guy, I'm 50 now so you can imagine this was on TV when I was watching it.
It was absolutely incredible to watch it and such a homage to the stunt world I think.
Yeah, absolutely.
The TV show is a little bit before my time.
But I obviously heard about it and I knew about it going into it.
And then I watched it when I kind of got the job and months leading up to it.
I caught up on it and did my research.
But what a movie to shoot and what a TV show to kind of follow and make a film about.
It was such a special journey and also kind of a lot of weight on our shoulders.
We knew how much impact that TV show had on the world but more so the stunt industry itself.
So we knew we were carrying a lot of weight and we kind of had to deliver which is why
we pushed the limits and really tried to do some really exciting, cool stunts as well
as make a good movie.
So I think the perfect people were on it.
Dave Leach, former stunt person.
Brad Pitt, stunt double.
Henry, stunt performer, double second year director and now he's directing some of the
biggest movies in Hollywood.
What better director could you have for a movie like this?
And then Chris O'Hara, the experience that he has in stunts, in doubling, in second year
directing, in stunt coordinating and now in stunt designing.
Fantastic leaders.
The best leaders we could have had.
Amazing.
The result was fantastic, it really was.
I want to get to the very beginning of your journey.
So very firstly, where are we finding you today on planet Earth?
Today on planet Earth, I am in London.
I am currently filming Ryan's next movie so we're in prep right now.
So I'm in London in my little loft department drinking a cup of tea speaking to you.
So that's where I am.
Beautiful.
I'm going to be back home.
I'll be in London for a full day on the 6th of June.
I'm going back.
I've got to go to France and Portugal and do a little family round trip.
But I can't wait to get back for a little bit.
Where are you living now?
I live in Ocala, Florida.
So right in the heart of the state, an hour north of Orlando.
Oh got it.
Okay.
Great.
I love Florida.
I haven't been in ages.
I haven't been in ages but it's a fun place.
It's a good place if you're a budding stunt man too and we'll get to that.
Oh yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Well then let's start the very beginning of your journey.
I know you weren't born in the UK.
So tell me where you were born and then tell me a little bit about your family dynamic,
what your parents did, how many siblings.
So dad was in the military.
Mum obviously kind of followed him around.
I was born in Germany actually in a place called Wegburg on a military base.
My mum and dad were, my dad was based there at the time so born on a military base in
Germany.
I stayed there for a couple of years and then moved back to the UK.
My dad got kind of, he moved bases and I think he was down in Bournemouth.
So moved back to England.
Mum was up north from Blackburn, England.
So moved back there.
Dad was down south.
Mum and dad got a divorce early, maybe when I was, I don't know, before five maybe.
So kind of split parents.
I would always go down south to see my dad whenever I could and then I lived with my
mum.
So dad was in the military.
He did 22 years there and then retired from military service and now he's just living
a kind of semi-retired life.
My mum has kind of always been just doing kind of random jobs here and there and now
she's somewhat living that retired life, looking after and caring for my younger nephew.
And then I still see them as much as I can.
This is actually quite nice because this is the first job I've ever done in England.
All my other jobs have been in the US or overseas somewhere.
I've done Colombia, Puerto Rico, I've done China, I've done Hawaii, just kind of all
over the place.
Australia, for Fall Guy, I've been all over the place but never England.
So this is the first time filming a movie in England.
So I'll be here for the next five months, which is nice.
I can kind of go up north on the weekends and see the family and yeah, just see them
a little bit more.
I only get to see them about two times a year, one or two times a year.
I go home every Christmas and then if I have some downtime, kind of in between projects,
I'll fly home in the summer or something and see them and then shoot back off to the States.
What branch was your dad in and what was his specialty in the military?
He was a paratrooper.
So what is that, Royal Infantry?
Are you familiar with movies?
Yeah, I mean, it's funny because I've just written a second book and there's a few chapters
where it's in the Falklands war.
So yeah, so it's the army side, isn't it?
The paras.
My dad was in the Falklands.
Oh, really?
Yeah, I think he did Falklands and Bosnia.
Yeah, I wonder if he's all right with me talking about it.
But yeah, no, so he did 22 years in the military.
He was a paratrooper.
And then I think he kind of worked his way up the ranks and he was...
I'll always remember going down south to see him and he kind of managed this massive warehouse
that...
I was young so it's kind of a spotty kind of image that I remember, but he managed this
warehouse and it's almost like giant floating oil container tankers type thing that he kind
of managed and was in charge of.
And I went down to see them and check out the warehouse and he had the fire brigade,
the military fire kind of come over and set a car on fire and I would put it out and things
like that.
So he would kind of organize little things like that.
He was one of the bosses there.
He called up the fire brigade and said, come over and set this car on fire for my son.
That's pretty cool.
Yeah, so just cool little things like that.
But yeah, so he did that for 22 years and then he retired from the military.
My dad is always...
My dad is a massive kind of component for me kind of getting into parkour and freerunning
at an early age, almost before I even knew that it was even a thing.
He was always very active himself and in doing so, I was kind of...
In him doing so, I was kind of very active also.
He would always take me on adventures.
We would go to ski parks and then afterwards we would go at the bottom of the ski park.
There was an adventure park with a high ropes course and trampolines built into the ground
and parks and he would always set routes for me to go.
I'd climb up this ladder and run along there and then jump down here and then run onto
the trampoline and do four backflips and then run over here.
I'm going to time you.
So he would take me to places like that and do those things with me.
He was the first person to teach me how to do a backflip and a frontflip on a trampoline.
I feel like I got my adventure spirit from doing that at such a young age.
I feel my whole life I've known I wanted to do something physical with my life and work.
I have pictures of me when I'm under 10 years old just throwing myself off a park that's
double my height and I'm just leaping off this thing onto the ground and I have lots
of pictures of that.
My dad always tells stories about before I could even walk me, the whole apartment is
quiet when he was there and my mom and he's like, where's Ben?
He's running around the house trying to find me and he opens the bathroom and I'm
in the sink chewing on a bar of soap.
How did you even get there?
There's nothing to climb on.
You would have literally had to just climb up the pipes and then climb into the sink
and he was like, there's no way you could have got there.
I think from an early age, unknowingly I was destined to get into something along the – get
into stunts.
It's quite funny to hear those stories and be like, it kind of worked out all right.
It makes sense.
I feel like I went into the correct industry.
I kind of went off in a little tangent.
No, no, you're good.
I love tangents.
That was funny because when I look back at my early life because I dreamed of becoming
a stunt man when I was little but I didn't have a dad.
It was good at moving so I ended up just being really good at falling over and getting up
again.
That was it.
I didn't have any skill behind me and even to this day, the gymnastic side, like there's
a guy, one of my friends Anthony who's walking around to this day with a scar under his eye
because he spotted me on a trampoline to do a simple somersault and I hit him with my
elbow so I gashed him right open.
But there was that kind of lack of fear at least on horses and motorbikes and all that
stuff that eventually carried over.
When I look at your stunt reel and some of the other things, clearly there's an element
of gymnastics.
Were you doing any gymnastics training specifically when you were younger?
No, it was actually never gymnastics.
It was all parkour.
Back in the day, I learned what parkour was and saw some people doing it, was interested.
I could already do flips from what my dad had taught me at an early age and started
hanging around with these guys.
Gymnastics gyms were just the only place we could go to train.
It was a safe place to train and practice flips and acrobatics.
That was the easy go-to place.
Then we realized we could just get a trampoline in the back garden and build some bars and
stuff like that.
Credit to my mom, she really let me take over the back garden from 14 to 20.
When I was 14 to 20, that back garden, she couldn't do anything in it.
It was absolutely full.
We had two trampolines and a bar setup, an uneven bar setup, which we dug into the ground,
cemented three feet deep, wooden poles coming out and two bars, uneven bars, connecting
to the trampoline so we could flip from the trampoline to the bars.
The entire back garden was just taken over.
I started off with a circle trampoline that you can buy on Argos or something.
One day I was walking home from school and my neighbor across the street, Sam, said,
Ben, did you see the trampoline in Griffin Park, which is the park just up the road from
me?
I was like, no, what are you talking about?
It's like a proper Olympic trampoline.
You should go and have a look.
I was like, no.
I was like, take me there.
He took me there, it's like a five minute walk, took me to the park and in this field
was just a perfectly good Olympic trampoline, like a rectangular Olympic trampoline.
I was like, where do you guys get this from?
It was like a couple of gypsies who had stolen it.
I was like-
How did they fit that in the caravan?
I have no idea.
I was like, where did you get this from?
At the time, there was just this one dude you could tell he was the leader.
I was just like, I'll buy this off you.
He was like, how much?
I was like, 50 pounds.
He was like, done.
I was like, all right.
I went back, got 50 pounds, came back, bought it off him for 50 quid, called all my friends
up and was like, get to Griffin Park right now.
You need to help me carry this trampoline to my house.
All my friends came over.
There was maybe five or six of us and then there was like 15 little gypsy kids that were
lifting this trampoline.
They just got on all the sides, we were surrounding it, lifted it up and took it out the park,
down the street carrying a trampoline, fully opened up and took it to my house.
We had to take all the fences off to lift it over and it fit perfectly.
It couldn't have been any bigger because we had the house on one side and then a fence
on the other and it fit just along that line.
It was even pushing the fence out a little bit so it was angled.
It's slightly too big but it fit absolutely perfectly.
I think my mom was on nights at that point so she came home the morning after to find
a new Olympic sized trampoline in the house.
I think I lied to her.
I was like, I only paid 30 pounds for it, mom.
I only paid 30 pounds for it.
The whole childhood was training in gymnastics gyms and then the back garden was a hotspot
for the trampoline.
We found some crash mats and we put them on the trampoline, climbed up onto the top of
the house and jumped off the house and jumped off the garage.
That was the introduction to that and more so those gymnastics gyms.
When I'm visualizing this trampoline barely fitting in your back garden, I can't help
but think that there were times when you came off the side of it and ended up in the neighbor's
yard on the floor.
Funny thing is, and I think this is why we got so good on the trampoline because we were
in a semi-detached house.
There were three houses.
We were the end house.
The side of our house was our back garden.
We had a long skinny garden and then over the fence, which is when you stood on the
trampoline, the fence comes up to your hip, is the road.
There's the pavement and then the road.
I think that's what got us so good at the trampoline because we couldn't go right because
we'd hit a brick wall of the house and we couldn't go left because we'd fall into the
road.
So we learned to just, I don't know, I feel like once you're on a trampoline for a lot
and I haven't been on a trampoline in a long time.
I used to spend a lot of time on it.
We would come home at lunchtime and just play on the trampoline.
We'd go after school, play on the trampoline, weekends, trampoline.
My house and my back garden was where everyone just hung out.
I'd have a basketball net.
We would do slam ball stuff and we would do basketball and then jump on the trampoline.
So it was a place where all my friends came.
We spent a lot of time.
When you spend a lot of time on a trampoline, you really get good at figuring out where
you are.
Your spatial awareness gets good and you know if you're going to fall off.
You know if you're getting close to the edge.
Some people did.
Don't get me wrong.
It happens from time to time but you get good at knowing kind of where you're situated,
especially on the trampoline in relation to everything else.
Where the wall is, where the road is.
So I don't think I ever fell into the road.
But yeah, there were some funny bails for sure.
Yeah, no, that's pretty amazing to visualize.
When I was a few years ago now when I lived in London, probably God, I say a few, Jesus,
probably 22 years ago, after I came back from doing stunts in Japan, I wanted to actually
get good at the aerial stuff.
And there was a place in London called the Circus Space.
Then they had an adult tumbling class and it was again beginners because you know when
it comes to my body moving in space, if it's not throwing a kick or a punch, I'm not very
good.
But that was interesting.
When you have an environment where you're not going to crack your head on concrete every
time you fail, it really did encourage a lot more.
It inspired courage when you were trying to learn to tumble.
But conversely though, I guess if you've got those parameters like a brick wall and a road,
it probably promotes really breaking down that skill and incrementally building on it
so that you are confident at that motion.
Absolutely, yeah.
That's why gymnastics gyms are there.
You have a tumble track and you have pads at the side and at the end of the tumble track,
you have a foam pit and everything is kind of padded.
There's a soft, strong floor.
You know, don't get me wrong, people still get injured but it's definitely a safe way
and we realize that, right?
There's only so much you can kind of do in a back garden on a ghetto setup of a trampoline
with some like crappy foam pads.
So that's why we would go on the weekends or on like a Thursday night or something, we
would go.
It was a Garstown gym and there was one in Wigan as well that we would go to.
But they had gymnastics clubs there and gymnastics facilities so we would go there to really
kind of just get a kind of different vibe and a different area or equipment to train
on.
So I mean, trampoline for me by far was the thing that taught me the most.
It taught me how to flip, how to control flips, my aerial awareness and it just gives you
time in the air.
It gives you time in the air to learn those complex flips.
But yeah, so you know, and then we trained all over and you know, when you train parkour,
you know, obviously there's lots of different ways to train parkour.
To me, parkour has always been like physical movement.
You know, it's been a blend of kind of everything, you know, gymnastics, rollblading and then
you have very precise movement, your kind of efficient A to B movement, your singular
jumps, your complex lines.
There's lots to it.
So you know, often we would travel down to Liverpool or London or Derby or Brighton to
train with people and, you know, climb around on the environment outside and jump on walls
and flip off walls and kind of, you know, combine the flips and the parkour side and
really just push the limits.
Were you exposed to, is it Sebastian Foucault and David, there was another Frenchman, David,
I forget his last name.
David Bell.
Bell, yeah.
Were you exposed to them at that age?
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I mean, I found out about parkour right when Jump Britain came out and I can't remember
what year that was, but me and one of my friends who lived in the neighbourhood, we saw the
documentary, we went down to the local park across the street and we saw some guys doing
flips off the park structure.
We were like, what are you guys doing blah, blah.
And at first they were like, get away you little snotty nose kids, we're doing parkour.
And I was like, I can do a flip, watch this.
So I hopped up onto the rail and did a backflip off the rail.
And they were like, if you want to come train with us, we'll be at the, because it was
like a, Whitton Park is a massive, massive park.
They have like a play park area and then they have a running track that's kind of associated
with the park and the school, the high school that I went to.
And in the running track they had a sandpit, they had two sandpits at the end.
So they were like, if you want to come and train, we'll be at the sandpit tomorrow.
So came down and they had this like circular like little trampette, you know, those like
kind of small like three foot trampettes that you use for workouts of whatever you would
use those for.
They had one of those, they took all the legs off bar two, so it was at an angle.
So we would run and hit the, hit the trampette and flip into the sandpit.
So that was another way of us kind of learning.
That was actually before the trampoline, before anything.
It was, that was, that was the first little setup we kind of had.
So we would go there in the summer and just flip into the sandpit all day, all day.
Now were you dreaming of becoming a stuntman during this time?
No, I don't think I knew what it was, honestly.
I am, you know, I was aware of, of, you know, Jackie Chan movies and things like that, but
I didn't necessarily know it was a thing.
I just wanted to, I think at that age, 14, 15, 16, I was just like, I just want to do
parkour for the rest of my life.
I don't need money and I don't need this and I don't need that.
So I wasn't really aware of it.
It was kind of, you know, maybe it was later on that I started, I started coming to America
when I was maybe like 17.
And then I met a couple of people.
I met one of my best friends now, Travis Wong, who was a stuntman and he also did parkour.
So we kind of got paired together to do, you know, a bunch of different shows and workshops
and you know, some smaller commercials or some music videos.
And, you know, he did parkour so we kind of bonded there.
But he also was a stuntman.
So he was, that's when I kind of found, found out that I was like, oh, you can, you can
actually kind of implement these skills into something else.
And you're a stuntman, you work in the movies and you do all this and, you know, you have
to kind of broaden your skill set and learn other things.
But I was like, wow, this is definitely, this, this could potentially be something that I
could do.
So yeah, you know, we, I met, I met him and I would, I would, I think 16, 17, I was in
college.
So, you know, I would do college and then if I would ever get a job, you know, with
this management agency that I was a part of at the time, I would, I would fly over to
the States and I would kind of just be like, ah, I don't need to go to college.
So I kind of like, I would stay, I would have a job and I would be there for a week and
I would just tell the agency to extend my flight.
I would, I would stay in LA for, I don't know, three, four more weeks and just hang out with
Travis and do some workshops and sleep in the corner of his living room on a mattress
and at that age you don't really need a lot.
So I got a, I got a taste of, of LA and New York early in my life and, you know, growing
up in Blackburn, you wake up every day and it's raining, it's gloomy, it's horrible.
There's like not a lot to do.
And then you get a taste of LA and you're like, wow, it never rains here.
It's always sunny.
It's, it's, it's incredible.
So that's when I knew I wanted to kind of move to LA.
So kept going down the journey and eventually made it there.
So let's talk about that for a second.
When I, I think when I was, when I got out of drama school, I think it was even before
I went to Japan.
I, I, as we said before I hit record, I went to drama school following a girl, don't know
how I got in there, discovered I was one of the worst actors on planet earth, but was
good at the physical side.
So my martial arts along with sword play, that became, you know, a skill, which was
great.
So then I come back and like, all right, well, what about being a stunt man?
Like I dreamed about when I was young and then I discovered the stunt registry and I
opened this book and it's like, all do you have to do is be a 10th degree black belt,
a badger tamer, an extreme climber, you know, a triple amputee and all these other things
that they had, that would take about 20 years to get.
I'm assuming this is obviously probably earlier than you got into it, but clearly this was
protecting the industry, you know, from a lot of the, probably the bond era stunt people
that wrote it.
And when you first looked into it, did you go down the British route or did you find
yourself, you know, which, which I ended up finding the American side, which is a lot
easier to get into.
So I, yeah, I mean, I never, when I found out about stunts, it was from an American,
you know, and I, I moved to, moved to LA when I was 20, 21, knowing that I wanted to kind
of get into the stunt industry there.
For me, kind of at that, at that stage, a lot, so much more was filmed in America.
Now it's like, it felt like the year that I moved was the year that a lot of the industry
moved to London and was kind of filming in London.
So I was the only up until, I don't know, maybe like five, six years ago, once you kind
of in the business, you kind of realize like there's the, you, I found out about the stunt
register in England and the, you know, the Canadian, the Canadian contract and the UK
contract and everything like that.
So you kind of, you get a bit more familiar with kind of what's going on around you.
But I only have a new American, you know, the American way to get in that you have to,
you have to be in SAG, you have to get TAFTA or you have to get your vouchers and then
that's your only way in.
And then you've got to, you know, and then once you're in it, you're kind of in it,
but getting in it is kind of the hardest part, you know, to, to become a member of SAG.
And I got lucky, I got, I got casted for a commercial, a Nike commercial right before
I moved there.
I think when I was about 20, I was in Boston at the time, I think doing a, doing a workshop
and we got a cast in memo through saying we need a parkour athlete who can play basketball
and double Dutch, the skipping thing.
And I was like, well, I'm a parkour athlete.
I used to play national level basketball for the Northwest of England and I could probably,
I can skip.
I've never double Dutch before in my life.
So we asked around the gym, I was like, is anyone double Dutch?
Like, can we get two skipping ropes?
So I just tried it and I could do it.
It was, it was, you know, it wasn't too terribly hard.
And and yeah, so and then we sent off, we sent off an audition tape and I got the job
and that was maybe a couple of weeks after or something like that.
So I did the, did the Nike commercial and then ultimately, you know, made a bit of money
with that and with that money I moved to America and then just kind of started getting into
and I think that was the commercial that tafted me into Seg.
So you have to either, I feel it's been so long, but I think you have to either get like
three vouchers by working on maybe like a background or something like that.
It could be absolutely butchering this, but you have to somehow get some vouchers and
that's hard to do or you have like a special skill where they need you so they taft you
instantly and then you're in Seg and that's kind of, that's how I got into Seg and then
started, you know, once you're eligible to work, it's a lot easier to work and then
I started, you know, applying for jobs and going to castings and, you know, doing commercials
and smaller projects and kind of built my way up in the ladder and started working on
bigger things.
I know about the vouchers because I was a glorified extra on the World Trade Center
film so they wanted real firefighters.
So I got a load of my friends from California and we all spent a few weeks and it's funny
because as you know, you know, you rehearse these scenes and it's over and over again
and then you see the final cut and you're just little silhouettes behind the door.
So they probably got, you know, like small children.
I don't think it was even that.
Like I think I was in that room somewhere, but anyway, but I got two of the three vouchers.
So I think it was the universe's way of saying you're not supposed to be in the movies.
But yeah, so I was kind of familiar with that.
The other side though from once I came back from doing the live show in Japan was being
introduced to the world of hustling.
Now again, that didn't work out for me.
I became a full-time firefighter.
So obviously the schedule changed rapidly.
But talk to me about that.
You're outside the stunt industry.
You know, what was that process for you like of being able to impart your skills to the
right people on set?
Well the stunt industry is very, it's unlike any other, especially in the kind of entertainment
industry.
You have an actor, you have an agent, you have a theatrical and a commercial agent and
they kind of put you out and kind of, you know, make, kind of put your name out there
and let it be known that you're available and you're here and there.
But with the stunt industry, there's no casting agencies, there's no management agencies.
It's all kind of word of mouth and who you know.
So you know, a way to meet stunt coordinators is to go and hustle them on set.
It's called hustling set.
So we would, you know, get a couple of guys.
It's always nicer to go with like two or three of you.
Usually if your friend is working on a movie, he'll be like, all right, we're working on
this movie.
This is the call sheet.
This is a stunt coordinator.
This is the time we're working.
Let's say we're doing a night shoot and our lunch is from one to two or something like
that.
So that's usually a good time to kind of go when things are quiet.
You never want to go and hustle set when there's a crazy action scene going on and you know,
the stunt coordinator is really busy like handling lots of things.
So there would be times where we have no idea.
We just see like a yellow sign on the side of the road that says like a code word for
a movie.
So we'd go there and we would just try and sneak past security about, oh, we're with
stunts and they're like, okay, we've come through.
And then just try and like, try and find out what it is, what they're filming, who the
stunt coordinator is, what he looks like.
And then we would try and find him in a crowd of 300 people.
And then if it's the appropriate time, go to him and introduce ourselves.
Back in those days, I would have, I think I printed like a hundred headshot and resumes
and I just have them in my car just in case I had to pull over to the side of the street
and give them to someone.
And then yeah, sometimes you'll be waiting hours because they're busy and then you'll
be like, all right, now's the right time or sometimes it'll be really quick.
But I actually have a funny story about kind of me hustling Chris O'Hara who was the stunt
designer, stunt coordinator, second year director of the Fall Guy.
So back in the early days when I was hustling, he was one of the people that I hustled.
So I think it was like a, I always forget, it was like an NCIS or one of those kind of
TV shows and my friend Cal McLean was on it.
He messaged me and me and my friend Solomon and he was like, all right, working on this,
you want to come hustle Chris blah, blah, blah.
So we show up and we, you know, we're probably waiting half an hour or something, go up and
meet him, have headshot and resume in the hand.
You know, we hang around set, we help him move pads and we kind of just, you know, have
a coffee or whatever with him.
And then he's like, all right gents, you know, we've got to get back to work now.
It was really nice meeting you.
Have your resumes, I'll call you in a year.
And I'm like, call me in a year.
That's weird.
That's weird to say.
What a weird, what a strange thing to like say.
And he has, call me in a year.
I was like, oh, okay.
And then we left and didn't hear anything from him.
And sure enough, a year and a week he calls me and he's like, hey Ben, got your, you know,
there's Chris R here calling you, seeing if you're available for next week TV show on
a random TV show.
And I was like, yeah, I'm available.
So I went in and worked with him and it was great.
You know, it was fine.
And I didn't put two and two together until Fall Guy when we were doing, because a long,
so what David Leitch is doing is basically, you know, obviously he's directing these
movies, but alongside those movies, he's, he has a docu-series that follow the stuntmen
on these movies.
So he did, what was the first one he did?
Was it Violent Night or the one before that?
I know Jojo, Jojo Coronet.
But basically he's following the movies that he does, the stunt team to kind of create
some more content for like a docu-series.
And he followed Fall Guy.
The docu-series team were kind of talking to me about hustling and all this stuff.
And I said, hold on a minute.
I hustle quick.
And I looked back at my records and I realized that he called me, he said, I'll call you
in a year.
And he called me a year and like four days later.
And I told him this and he was, and I was like, why did, why do you say that?
Why do you say you're going to call someone in a year?
He's like, well, firstly, like if they're still around a year later, I know they're
committed.
I know they've got what it takes to at least survive in this industry.
I know early on it's hard to kind of stay afloat and maybe they've given up.
You know, a lot of people kind of try and get into the industry and then don't make
it and then they veer off to something else or whatever.
So he's like, I know you're committed.
And I was like, wow, that's crazy.
I was like, do you remember that phone call?
And do you remember like calling me a year later?
I had no idea.
I was just look at the drawer that I called you.
But I just thought that was quite a funny story that I hustled him and he said, I'll
call you in a year.
And I'm sure enough, he called me a year later.
All right.
Well, as I kind of looked in IMDB and kind of followed the shows that you worked on,
one of the first ones that really jumped out to me that you wouldn't have thought would
be attached to a stunt man was Dancing with the Stars.
So how did you find yourself on that show and what were the stunts?
So that was, I feel like that was kind of early days before I really got into kind of
filming movies and stuff.
And I've done so many shows like that.
But it's just, you know, a lot of my success really, it goes down to kind of like the people
that I was, my friends basically.
And you know, I had one of my best friends, Travis Wong, he really put me on the map and
he kind of he gave me a place to stay.
He gave me a place to train.
He put me in front of the right people.
So I wouldn't be where I am today without that guy.
And he would always be like, you know, he was so well connected in the industry.
He knew stunt coordinators, he knew dancers, he knew, he just knew everyone.
And you know, he was very good friends with a couple of dancers who were on like the LXD,
the League of Extraordinary Dancers.
And that kind of team would also go around and they would do Dancing with the Stars,
or they would do something else, or they would do music videos.
And you know, parkour and flips and acrobatics kind of just enhance kind of like a performance.
So we did a lot of performance, like lots of live shows, lots of, you know, segments
in a TV show where it would be kind of like the LXD who would be dancing.
And in the background, me and Travis would be flipping over a stair set or kind of dropping
down into frame and then get up and kind of flip off stage and then dancers would come
in.
So it kind of just elevated the performance and it wasn't necessarily like, I mean, it
absolutely wasn't that I was on Dancing with the Stars, like as a dancer dancing.
It was just one of those kind of specialty performances, you know, in kind of like the
break where they would just have a little show and you know, welcome to the stage of
the LXD.
And the LXD would come in, they would perform and do like a really cool, creative, you know,
dance sequence.
So we would just kind of be a part of that and just add some elements of flips and acrobats
and things like that into it.
I had Spencer Thomas on the show a little while ago now, John Cena's stunt double.
It was kind of really interesting hearing, you know, how that kind of came together initially
from a football player to a stunt man.
What was the kind of evolution of your stunt career from, you know, soldier number 276
through to actually doubling some of the leads?
So yeah, I mean, you know, the first jobs, the first jobs are always for free.
You're always, you know, helping out someone with their little short film or you're just
trying to get footage.
So you call up a bunch of friends, you know, hey, can we just put this little fight scene
together and can you throw me down the stairs one day or can you do this or can you do that?
Like, you know, so we was, I've done so many projects where you're on night shoots because
that's the only time where you could rent a gym for free kind of thing.
Like, you know, usually like a place like Jam or like Travis's gym would have classes
throughout the day and then they would have open gym at night and then they would shut
the door.
So he would let friends kind of use it after hours when it's, you know, it's not kind
of taken away from business.
So we would go there and we'd film little shorts and little scenes and where you're
doing free work just because you need footage.
And then it kind of goes from that to, you know, little, you know, like you said, just
not even like, yeah, or yeah, Soldier 23 or something, right?
Where you run into a room and you get shot by the rock or you just run into a room, you
take a little bullet hit or something like that.
And then there's a lot that goes into it.
I'm quite lucky.
I'm a, you know, six foot white dude.
So you know, 180 pounds.
There's lots of actors who kind of are those sizes.
So the field of people that I can double is, you know, quite large.
So I was kind of lucky in that aspect.
It's just about kind of, you know, who you know, putting yourself in the right positions.
It's really put me in front of a lot of people who kind of saw my skills and was like, oh,
I could use that.
And then, you know, if something came up, you would, they would put you in for something.
But yeah, it just, and you know, experience on set is one thing as well.
Like I remember the first time you, you know, I walked onto set, I was like, I have no idea
where to go or what to do or I'm just going to stay right here until I'm told to do otherwise.
And then you learn kind of, you know, your set etiquette and what your job is when you're
needed, when you're not needed and what to do, what not to do.
And I think those first years are just kind of gaining experience and slowly building
your way up in the industry.
And then, and then yeah, when those bigger roles come through, you really, you know,
that way you're kind of ready.
I think my biggest, you know, I started off kind of, I think one of my first movies was
Paul Blart, Mall Cop 2.
And it was in Vegas for like three, four weeks or something.
And I had to completely shave my head and I was a, I was one of the stunt doubles for
the Cirque du Soleil performers.
So they couldn't use the Cirque people as stunt people.
I'm not too sure why.
So we had to double them getting like kicked off the pillars into the water and do all
that stuff.
So that was kind of my first big movie.
And then it moved on to, you know, a couple of other TV shows where you're doubling someone
and you know, you get put in those positions where I think I was, I doubled the lead on
an NCIS once and you'd come in for a day and you'd just fall down the stairs or, and then
you'd get brought in for maybe, you know, like a month later for another day and you'd
clear a room and shoot some people and take a bullet hit or something like that.
So then you get a glimpse of kind of doubling the lead actor, but it's for a day here and
a day there and it's just for kind of like one thing.
It's like, I just need you to tackle this dude and fall down the stairs.
And then once you're done, you're done, you just go home.
And then, and that's very different to kind of doubling a lead on a movie where you're
with that person for, you know, six to nine months.
So that's just another thing of gaining experience.
And then, and then, yeah, and then, and, and then I think the first really big full run
movie I went on was Jungle Book.
So it was me, Travis and Paul White Cotton were kind of the main doubles for Mowgli.
And then we also kind of did creature movements.
So we did all the monkeys and the bears and things like that.
So yeah, that was kind of the first full run movie I did.
You know, you come in there, you do prep and then you do, you film the entire thing.
And then, and then yeah, and then it just kept going from there.
Really.
I was just, you know, I started kind of meeting more coordinators and the name was getting
out there and then you start getting pulled from kind of every direction.
Are you available for this?
Are you available for that?
And then it was kind of just kind of just happened and kept going from there.
When you said stair fall, I, in my mind, I could just imagine Keanu Reeves is double
being told, oh, we're just going to be, there's a stair fall in this movie.
So we're going to need you to do that.
Not understanding that it's going to be about, about half a mile of stairs that you're going
to ultimately fall down.
Were there any films where you were proposed a skill and then, you know, when you actually
read the set, read the script, you were like, oh, this is, this is a little bigger than,
than I was told over the phone.
It's funny you say that.
The, both of those guys are my friends.
It was Daniel Graham and Jackson Spidell who did that.
And what a gangster stair fall.
Like, oh my goodness.
But those two are some of the most talented people in the business.
I don't know.
I feel even for them, I feel like you see the stair set and you're like, oh, let's go.
Like, this is going to be cool.
I mean, you know, a stair, look, a stair fall is, is, you know, it can suck, but, but it's
also, I don't know.
I feel like the people at the top of the game, like get excited over things like that.
It's like a, it's like a new challenge and it's, and it's fun.
Like maybe we, I'm sure they haven't done a stair fall that long before.
So they were like, all right, let's go.
And for me, as at least I see it as a, as a really cool challenge.
Have I ever gotten there and be like, well, this is bigger than I thought.
I mean, I'm sure it's happened.
I can't necessarily think of a specific time.
I'm sure it's, I'm sure it's happened.
You're like, well, that looks, that's higher than I thought it would be, or, or it's going
to, that's going to be gnarlier than I thought, or that's going to hurt more.
Or you know, a lot has to do with the environment.
If you can land on something that's, that's quite soft, then it's, it's usually all right.
Stairs are deceivingly like, they don't hurt as much as you think because you're kind of
going down.
Like speed is your friend.
If you get a lot of speed, your momentum kind of takes you down, but then it depends on
the stair.
Like if it's like a marble stair set with really sharp edges, you're like, oh, that's
going to suck.
But like if you have a nice carpeted set of stairs that aren't too steep, like, yeah,
this will be absolutely fine.
So it depends on the environment and it depends on kind of the situation and what you have
to do.
But yeah, I mean, a lot of the time, and also it's dictated with like what you have to wear
too, because at a certain point, like, you know, you can, you can do things all day in
trainers and, and, you know, joggers and a t-shirt, right?
If like really comfortable clothing, but then you get on set and you have to wear like metal
cowboy boots with like a cowboy hat and a tight leather jacket and like tight pad or
whatever it is.
Like, it just makes it so much harder.
So there's so many factors that kind of go into, into stunts.
And you know, there's, I feel like more times have been like, this is what you have to do.
Okay, cool.
And you have to wear this and this and this, you know, like, I have to wear like a backpack
with stuff in it or like a chest plate with like things everywhere, a helmet with glasses
or a full face mask or, you know, the masks are always a tricky one if you have to, if
you're in prosthetics or if you have to actually wear like a, like a full face mask that kind
of blurs your vision or things like that.
So it's, there's lots of things that kind of go into, you know, making something harder
or making something scarier or adding difficulty to it.
When I did the pirate show, which was another, it wasn't universal.
It was a private show.
We actually did it in Florida and California.
There was a sword fight like 30 feet up in the air.
You just had a circus loop was your only safety.
So if you did fall, you'd be dangling if your shoulder was still in its place.
But then you came down and then you did a fall.
I'm not going to call it a high fall.
It was only 18 foot.
But one of my friends that played the same role in the show, he got caught up on the
way down from the, the, the mast at the top and then ended up falling into the, the fall
pit and then hitting the concrete on the way down instead broke his back.
I mean, they fractured his back.
Luckily it didn't damage his spinal cord longterm.
But that is one very, very up close and personal awareness piece of the safety on set, whether
it's live shows or films when it comes to the stunt world.
And I had Olivia Jackson on a few years ago who lost her arm on Resident Evil after that
horrendous mistake from the boom operator.
Recently, obviously rust has been in the news.
What have you seen just as far as the evolution of safety on set to protect our performers
and our stunt performers?
Yeah.
And that's, I mean, it's a massive thing.
I mean, this kind of ties in with so much about like, you know, the Oscars and getting
reckoned.
Like stunts are the only department in film that we really do risk our lives.
Like look, we, nothing, we never planned for anything like this to happen, but mistakes
happen and we're, you know, we make it as safe as possible, but we do some dangerous
things sometimes, right?
Like doing a car transfer or hanging 150 feet from the sky.
It's quite dangerous.
So you know, all the safety precautions are in place and everything we do is rehearsed
and practiced and gone over multiple times, but still, you know, things happen like you've
just mentioned and accidents happen.
But it's, I think that, I mean, it just, it comes down to like, you know, who you're
working for and the steps that you go through and especially these days, you know, I feel
like I know when something's safe and not safe and I am happy to kind of take a step
back and be like, Hey guys, like, let's just redo this.
Let's test this again or let's do this and let's take our time here because it's not
worth anyone getting injured.
So you know, on Fall Guy, we did some of the biggest craziest, I mean, Logan broke records
and we jumped a car and he jumped a car 220 feet and we did a descender from 150 feet
with myself and Ryan on the line and you know, fire, we did so much and you know, you see
the movie and you see the car hit happen and it happens in three seconds and you see the
fire burn happen and it happens over the course of a couple of minutes and then you see the
cannon roll happen and it happens in 10 seconds and the car jumped three seconds.
But what you don't see is all the prep that's gone into that.
That's months and months and months of prep.
I mean, Logan was talking to Chris about the cannon roll for like six months before the
movie had, they even filmed it.
Like he was talking to her for so long and planning it and figuring out the math and
figuring out the science and figuring out like what needs to go where and the rehearsals
that went into it were insane and it's what's needed.
You know, it's what's needed in this day and age and people don't see that.
You know, people think we're risk takers and we're daredevils and sure, we've got
to like, I love a bit of risk and I like doing things that scare me and push my physical
limits and mental limits too.
But everything is prepped and rehearsed and practiced more than you would think.
Well, it's interesting doing two careers parallel.
So doing the stunt side, but then obviously doing the firefighting side, which, you know,
arguably is a different version of stunts.
But you know, the diligence of preparation is so important.
Now for the stunt world, you're preparing for this one scene that's going to unfold
on a stage, on a set, whatever it is.
For the fire service and the paramedic side that we do, you're actually rehearsing for
something that you don't know if you're ever going to do it.
But it's imperative that you rehearse it because one day someone's going to call 911
and now all eyes are on you.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's, I mean, you know, stunts is kind of, there's a goal, right?
There's a goal to like today we're going to set someone on fire.
So let's prepare for that.
You know, tomorrow we're going to do a car jump.
Let's prepare for that and so on and so forth.
So but you have to know all the different safety aspects.
Like we had a fire safety team there and you know, they were a bunch of Aussie guys who
were phenomenal and they really kind of, you know, got me through that and trained me up
and gave me lots of really good advice.
That was my first fire burn that I ever did on camera.
So we prepped it by, you know, in the rehearsal stages of the movie in prep, you know, I'd
never done fire before.
So I got a bunch of denim clothes with some, you know, with my carbon X underneath and
kind of got everything set up and they set my arm on fire so I could kind of feel what
it felt like to have my arm on fire and see how the fire reacted outside.
And then they set your legs on fire.
So you kind of do that and then your little lower back and go a bit higher.
We tested out the material that the wardrobe was going to be because I was wearing the
whole gold kind of space cowboy suit.
So we strapped that to me onto the back of my denim thing, lit that on fire, see kind
of how it reacted, did a, you know, kind of like a half, like three quarter burn and kind
of did that just to kind of see how it reacts, see how I react, see how I handle it.
Because there's lots of things that can go wrong and it's never a good idea to just,
if you haven't done that before, especially with fire, to just throw someone in the deep
end and do it.
So I kind of, I wanted to feel what it felt like to be on fire.
I wanted to see, you know, how it reacts and what you have to do.
Because if you light your arm on fire and you just stay there, like the wind can blow
it into your face and then you get burned.
So you have to keep it moving and keep it away from you and kind of, you know, it's
kind of a dance between you and the fire and what you do.
You know, I have a bunch of like behind the scenes videos of me and the first time I got
lit on fire, I was quite static and the wind was helping me.
It was kind of blowing into me, sort of keeping the fire behind.
And on the day we did, I did one fire burn the first day and seven the next day.
So the first day, the wind, the first day the wind was into my face and then the second
day, was it opposite?
I forget.
But one, but both days the wind was completely different.
So it kind of, it started a bit differently.
So you know, on the second day, it was behind me blowing this way.
So it's a lot harder to deal with.
So I had to turn myself around, kind of like myself and kind of move the fire around me.
And then when they call action, kind of turn around and go.
And you just, you learn that kind of, you know, with, you know, the practice and the
prep beforehand, you know, you have the fire safety team there with everything that they
need to kind of put you out if something goes wrong and then put you out when everything
goes great.
And then they yell cut.
So, you know, it's definitely a team effort and it takes more than more than one person
to kind of execute something like that.
Did you ever work with Steve Shriver?
No, I haven't.
Or Todd Bloomer?
No, no, no.
That's probably the era before.
So when I was in Japan, they were in the Waterworld stunt show.
Todd was actually a mariner, but Steve was one of the fire divers.
And so when you're talking about the fire, I can see exactly what you're talking about
because I would, you know, go there, you know, when they were rehearsing, I even tried out
for it at the very end before my contract ended.
And you know, they're up 30 feet in the air.
I think it was a 30 foot fall and they're on fire.
And then if the wind is blowing the wrong way, they basically got to try and, you know,
like outrun the wind, because it's coming behind them because they're running into the
direction of the flame and then do a 30 foot high fall and land feet first in the water,
hopefully, and then swim underwater to, you know, where they hide in the set for the next
scene.
So yeah, I can visualize exactly what you're talking about.
Yeah, I think I think I there's one thing I wish I did a live show.
I really do.
I wish I did.
And I encourage all the stunt performers kind of getting into the business to do that because
it gives you such good practice at that.
I mean, those guys do 10 shows a day.
That's 10 fire burns a day over the course of a year.
300, you know, what is that?
That's 3000.
Is my math terrible there?
That's a lot of fire burns throughout, you know, the year.
That's more fire burns than I've ever done in my 10 year career in stunts.
And you get that in one year of doing a live show.
So the amount of reps that you get performing in front of an audience, dealing with pressure,
you know, 10 fight scenes a day, 10 fire burns a day, 10 high falls a day, 10 jet ski jumps
a day, 10 air arms, whatever, you're just doing reps and reps and reps in front of people.
As a performance, I think it's fantastic.
And I kind of wish I did it.
I kind of feel like I skipped that step just from I mean, who you kind of know and the
position that you're in.
And I actually think I was up for in my early days, I got offered to do the Spider-Man live
show and I was debating like, what do I do?
Do I do it?
Do I not like it would be good?
And then I got offered Jungle Book, right?
Like a week later and I was like, I'm going to do Jungle Book.
And it was great.
Don't get me wrong.
I'm very happy.
I feel like I made the right choice, but I feel like a live show would have been would
have been good.
I came earlier in the career so I could have done it, but no, I think live shows are fantastic.
They're a great practice for a new stunt performance.
Yeah.
And you also get instant gratification.
If you do a scene well, depending on the show, the Terminator one was a 3D experience so
it wasn't as much clapping, but like the Bourne show you get clapping and the Pirate show
you certainly did because it was a dinner show.
But then the other thing is, yeah, if you screw up, there's no cut.
You've just got to figure it out.
You've got to try and reclaim your sword choreography or get up even though you had the wind knocked
out of you because you landed the wrong way.
So that's the other thing I saw.
All of that is great experience.
People mess up all the time and it's okay, but it's almost worse if you mess up in a
live show because then you have to keep going with the live show.
Like if you mess up in a tape, you just say, Kurt, do it again, restart.
But in a live show, it teaches you so much.
I think it's a very valuable skill to have and it's a very valuable experience to have.
You mentioned when we were talking about safety on set about the Oscars as well, and this
is something I've talked to with Steve and Spencer.
The lesser known fact is that there is no award for stunt performers and listening to
Olivia as well, also sometimes it's not protection when things go wrong for our stunt community
as well.
In The Fall Guy, being a stunt man, I immediately referenced some of those little moments in
the film where they talk about that.
Expand on that.
What is the disconnect between the stunt performing world and the protection and recognition that
the actors are getting?
Yeah.
I got into stunts because it excited me, it allowed me to be creative and push my own
limits and I never got into it for recognition.
I don't think anyone did.
We love what we do, regardless of whichever background we came from, if it's martial
arts, if it's parkour, if it's gymnastics, if it's motorbike or racing or whatever it
is.
There are so many different avenues to get into this business.
I think we all just wanted to do that and it's cool to be on a movie and show your
skills and perform and be a part of these things that we all love and be a part of the
film.
It's great.
We never got into it for that but the more you're in it and the more you see all of
these, you see the awards show every year and for so many awards for these films that
we're a part of, you think to yourself, hold on a minute, everyone else is getting recognition
but we're not.
I feel like I've been asked this a lot and I have a very simple answer for it.
I think every single department who's involved in the creative process of making a film should
be recognized.
To me it's a no-brainer, right?
Whether that is wardrobe, hair, stunts, actors, directors, whatever.
Everyone who's involved in the creative process of it should be recognized.
The more you think about it, it's so weird that we're not.
We're a massive part of these films that people love.
How many movies these days have zero action in them?
Not many.
So little, so little, 1%, 5% max.
There's not a lot of movies that have 0% action.
There's some movies that have very little action.
They're not going to be nominated for an action award or a stunt award or whatever
but there's so many movies that are that actors and everyone else gets credit for but
we don't.
But saying that, I know that my job is to now that I'm doubling and things like that
because there's a difference.
If you come in and perform and you're the one fighting the lead bad guy or the lead
guy or the lead hero or whatever, your face is in the movie, you're in the movie, you're
a part of the gang or the bad guys, the villain squad or whatever it is.
You're the crew of that and then you're in the movie, your face is there and you're
actually a part of the scene so you're going to be seen.
More recently I've just been doubling lots of people so I'm not seen.
My face isn't seen, I'm not a character.
I'm kind of resembling the actor who is portraying a character.
I'm very aware that my job is to come in and replicate the actor and mimic the actor
as much as I can and mimic the character that we're both kind of playing and perform and
then he comes in and he does what he can and then he does the action and then delivers
the lines and then we swap out and then I'll do a ratchet into a wall or something and
then he gets put in for the landing.
I'm very aware that there's a process to it, there's an art to kind of keeping people
in the movie and thinking that it's the same person.
Ultimately making the actor and making the character look good, that's our job, that's
our goal to kind of not be seen and not be known but that doesn't mean we shouldn't
get credited for it and shouldn't get a bit of recognition for it especially when
we're putting our lives on the line.
Like people get hurt and we really look, it's safe, we make it as safe as we can and we
go through all the precautions but things happen and we really are the only department
that kind of puts our lives on the line or can just get seriously injured.
Like so many people have like broken bones and this and that and got seriously injured
or died, as horrible as that is, it is a reality.
So I just, I think with a movie like Fall Guy, it's really, it's put stunts on the
map more now than ever.
I think in the past five years people have been like oh stunt doubles are actually a
thing like there's been more posts on Instagram of seeing, especially with the Marvel world,
like seeing Captain America's double do a cork off a little platform and land and Keanu
Reeves' double Jackson, that whole clip of him falling off the roof, chipping off the
balcony and then onto another roof and then onto the floor, that went viral and people
are slowly realizing oh like that's not Keanu Reeves, there's another person doing that
and his name is Jackson Spidell.
So it's becoming a little bit more known that what we do is an actual thing and it's a profession
but I think Fall Guy has really kind of elevated that and put it on the map and that's, you
know, that's all to do with David and Kelly and Ryan and Emily, you know, the director
and the producer and Ryan and Emily really just shine in such a positive spotlight and
using the spotlight that they have to shine a bright spotlight on the stunt community
and that was, it's been amazing to be a part of it and I'm very thankful for them for
doing so, not just for myself but for everyone.
I feel like it's a very kind thing to do.
They didn't need to do it but they're doing it.
They use their time at the Oscars to pitch basically a new category to show a really
cool video on stunts and take the time to kind of talk about us and kind of being a
part of this whole press tour.
They've done it every step of the way, you know, it's almost like they're not taking
the glory for themselves, they're really kind of shining a spotlight.
They're taking the time to deflect the praise that they're getting and shine it into the
stunt community and it's admirable.
It's really cool that they're doing that.
Well, it's another parallel between the two professions and like I said, I wasn't a film
stunt man to be clear about that.
But when it comes to the fire service now, there are people around the country that do
what we do for free, not usually the EMS side but at least the fire side and it's justified
in very, very small rural areas where the townspeople will do that, God forbid there's
a fire.
But there's been a devolution to take an advantage of these men and women that all you do is
push three buttons on a telephone and come hell or high water, they're going to show
up with the Swiss army knife of skill to try and mitigate your worst day.
But we have allowed that to be taken for granted, you know, and people kind of like the stunt
industry, they think about us for a moment if they need us and apart from that we've
forgotten about and sadly politicians are cutting fire stations and crews and all that
stuff.
So to me, I see the same thing.
If you're not put front and center and people tell what you actually do for them, it's not
for accolades, it's just for acknowledgement.
If that doesn't happen, it's very easy for them for the work environment that you work
amongst to deteriorate because no one's fighting for you.
So I think it's less about the little shiny statue or more about the acknowledgement of
the stunt community and then continuing to push the safety and the pay and the insurance.
I mean, if a firefighter leaves, you know, retires, they have zero health insurance the
moment they walk out the door, most of us.
So you just got beaten up for 20, 30 years mentally and physically and then you're out
the back door.
And I feel it's the same with the stunt industry.
So if we're going to have people fling themselves off buildings and, you know, fight scenes
and you know, all these other things that the stunt community does, then if it's not
put front and center, it's very easy for them to be discarded once the film is done.
So I think it's way more than recognition.
It's making sure that we take care of our people that make some of these actors look
good.
Yeah, I mean, I couldn't have said it any better, honestly.
I think I mean, this world is just it's turning into a very greedy world and everyone's out
for themselves.
I just I just want everything to be fair.
And people work very hard for whatever they do.
They should be taken care of in a very fair way.
And and and you know, hopefully with this film coming out and the attention that it's
got, I think it will be very hard for people to say no to kind of giving the recognition
and taking care of the stunt industry from now on.
I think it's it's made a big enough bang in all the right areas to kind of to kind of
do that.
Absolutely.
Well, circling a full circle is funny because my wife said that she was watching me the
whole time while I was watching the Fall Guy and I had this big on my face the whole time.
But you know, I'm a little boy on a farm in Bath watching the Fall Guy television show
dreaming of becoming a stuntman with very, very little opportunity to become a stuntman
in England.
Bizarre life happens.
They ended up becoming stuntman in Japan and then America.
And then you guys make the Fall Guy and now at the end, we see Lee Majors.
So talk to me about that kind of synergy with the original show and the film.
Yeah, I mean, we wanted to, you know, obviously, it's a little it's a little different, but
we wanted to to really pay homage to it.
And there's lots of kind of little golden nuggets in there that where we pay homage
to different people throughout the movie in some areas that people might not know.
But we also wanted to represent the stunt industry well.
We wanted to we wanted to do everything organically.
We could have very easily had a CG guy fall out of a helicopter 150 feet.
We could have easily had a CG car do a 220 foot jump.
But we wanted everything we did, we did organically in a very lack of a term, like old fashioned
way like where the kind of the high fall is kind of like a dying art because I mean, you
could even get a dummy and throw out of a helicopter type thing.
Right.
But we wanted we got the best person for that with Troy Brown.
We brought Troy Brown and his dad, Bob Brown out, who Bob Brown was legendary stunt performer
and high fall specialist.
He did a 220 foot or 200 foot.
Oh, my butchering that 170 200 foot.
He did a very high high fall out of a window on fire.
And he did that into the same bag that Troy Brown did the 150 foot high fall in Fall Guy.
Like there's a whole like backstory to that.
You know, just the story alone of the high fall in Fall Guy is an episode of the documentary
that David filmed himself.
It's just a fantastic story with his dad coming out and and using the same airbag and just
everything that happened was was was amazing.
And that happened so often.
It was just like there's a little throwback there and then a little throwback with the
air ram and paying homage to Chris O'Hara and his kind of his almost signature move
kind of when he got into the industry.
And you know, we really wanted to represent stunts well and we wanted to do everything
organically and we wanted to do it to do it right.
And we wanted to go big and we wanted to just just make it a make it a special movie and
and also keep keep the character of the Fall Guy alive and and and having Lee Majors there
to kind of you know cap off the movie was was great.
It was it was a special movie in every way for me and I think for lots of other people
too.
Will it be a standalone film or do you predict a sequel?
Oh, I don't know.
I hope there's a Fall Guy 2.
That would be fun.
Yeah, I I told Chris I was like if there's a Fall Guy 2, please give me a bit of notice
so I can mentally prepare for it because it was it was it was by far the best experience
I've ever had working on a movie.
It was it was fun.
It was exciting.
It was scary.
It was it was everything but it was hard work.
It was it kicked my ass.
It was it was nonstop.
It was I just I was it was I felt like so busy every day.
I was doing something where there was like hit by a car and then the following day you
are chasing you have to chase after a tram and smash through a window and then you pick
up that following day and then the following day after that you're doing a you're doing
a fire burn eight times and then you got to do it and then you have to rehearse this thing
that you're doing next time and then you go.
It was just like it was I've never been so busy and I've never been so exhausted but
I've never felt happier and on a movie it was it was it was incredible.
I mean the you know we're out in Sydney for nine months and Sydney is a very special place.
It will always have a special place in my heart now but I didn't really get to experience
it a lot.
I feel like prep was nice because we prepped and then on the on the weekends I kind of
you know got to explore and play a bit of golf and just kind of explore the city.
But when we started shooting I mean my weekends were recovery.
I was I was I had I had the chiropractor and my physio on speed dial and I was I was I
was there I would get dry needling in my shoulder and I would get massages and I would go so
steam rooms and ice baths and and I would kind of just maintain the body because because
it was getting beat up with with everything that we had to do.
And just the sheer amount the sheer workload was was quite intense but I wouldn't have
it any other way.
Well I was laughing when there's that scene with with Emily and she's pissed off because
the fire burn was a ratchet too wasn't it simultaneously.
Yeah.
So that was you getting slammed into the rock over and over and over again.
Yep.
Yeah I would need a chiro too.
Yeah so the first day I touched on it briefly earlier but it was the first the first day
we filmed it we just did it once.
I think we when we when we first did it the explosion that I kind of ran into it wasn't
quite big enough like it was quite small.
So I think we put it to bed that day came back the next day effects had kind of built
a bigger explosion and then seven times the next day.
So that whole day was just me in my fire gear changing in and out of costumes.
I went through seven costumes that day where they just got burnt to shreds and then we
had to peel it off and put a new one on and reset and you know kind of re-gel up and then
you know 45 minutes later go do another one come back go do another one come back go do
another one.
And then yeah the end of the day was great though because we think I was wearing 10 layers
of clothing that day all day.
So last scene we do it they call rap.
I take off all the layers I take off the harness I take off everything and I'm just in a wetsuit
on my fire gear underneath and I wear right on the beach so I just jump in the ocean and
just like oh this is so nice like just in the ocean.
I have a bit of a clean off and then yeah that was that was a nice nice little end to
the day and a little dip in the ocean.
Well speaking of that you mentioned about obviously Ryan and Emily and then this whole
production being to highlight the stunt community.
You also hear some actors talking about how they did their own stunts.
Now obviously Tom Cruise phenomenal skydiver you know so there are some people that you
know are actors that are absolutely capable of stunts.
You know Jason Statham was a high diver before he became you know got into the acting world.
What is the kind of overall conversation though about some of the actors that I'm assuming
maybe are taking credit for things that actually your community is doing.
But look you know a lot of a lot of actors do lots of their own stunts you know if like
we try and use them as much as we can you know if they're doing a fight scene it's
probably mostly the actor right like it's it's it's quite close and it's shot quite
close and you're throwing punches and a lot of the time that's them if you take a little
hit or like a bullet hit or something they can absolutely do that.
We'll put the safety precautions down we'll put some high dents or a pad down.
Even wire work you know like lots of actors do do wire stuff and so you know lots of actors
do lots of their own stunts but there there's also stunts that that they don't do.
Shy of Tom Cruise I mean Tom Cruise is an absolute legend.
I have a lot of respect for Tom Cruise.
I would love to work with that guy one day he's just he does some really cool things
and the Mission Impossible series is amazing and you know hats off to him he's done some
incredible things.
So have many other actors too but you don't really get a lot of actors who willingly want
to throw themselves down some stairs or or do a really hard ratchet or get hit by a car
like you know those things are kind of when the stunt guy kind of steps in and takes the
hit right because like if you if you hit an actor with a car and they break their leg
then you can't you have to stop filming like you know like you a whole crew shuts down
and they go on hiatus for six months and then I think it happened in Mission Impossible
Tom Cruise broke his ankle on doing a doing a jump across the roof and I think production
should have like three months so you know there's insurance insurance involved and
everything like that but but you there's a reason why we kind of you know we our profession
exists you know and then also like you need someone to train the actors in their fight
scenes and then if you're doing a wide then it needs to then it's it just saves a lot
of time and the actor can be doing something else while the stunt double is doing a wide
version of the fight or there's just there's ways to save time and and and and ultimately
I think it's just it's a collaboration between actor and stunt double and and you know there's
a time and a place for for the actor to to do things and there's a time and a place
for the stunt person to do things and you know with a movie like Fall Guy Ryan can't
get away without doing stunts like he had to do stunts he did he did so many he did
the he did so many of the fight scenes and he he jumped in the the bin for the for the
Alma chase and did the fight scene there and he surfed across the bridge on the back of
the door like holding onto the shovel across the harbor bridge and you know the opening
of the movie where it's that whole funny wanna with with him and Emily and he goes
up into the the elevator and then gets hooked up and then does the you know 150 foot descender
like the winch drop that's him you know like I lined up the shop and and and got everything
prepped and we hooked him up and and then and then he did it like it's it's you know
he he did he did he did a lot you know but then when you talk about you know doing a
cannon roll like he's not gonna do that like that's when that's when Logan comes in and
and takes the reins and and you know sets a world record for for most most cannon rolls
and and you know he's not gonna do a 220 foot jump on a car so that's when Logan comes
in and the professional kind of you know who's been doing it his entire life you know comes
in and and takes over and and that's the safest way to do it and you know inserts done in
any in anything it's a it's a collaboration between everyone and and you know we we we
got Ryan to do as much as he he could and wanted to and then you know just because we
went so big and and you know we did some some some hard hitting you know impact stuff like
that's when the double comes in so there's a time and a place for everything you know
there absolutely is I guess unless you Tom Cruise and then he'll just strap himself to
the side of a plane and be like let's go let's take off after he's bought his own safety
guy because the last one said he couldn't do it what a great story that is oh yeah can
we do this and that and then nah it's not safe all right I'm gonna fire you I'm gonna
get someone else to sell I don't know if that's true but if it is that's that's hilarious
absolutely what's the name of the guy that played the villain in the fall guy the actor
I'm blanking on his name Aaron Taylor Johnson yeah so he is now our new James Bond have
I got that right oh I have no idea I believe so I think they named him very recently so
being British I think so so being British what is your kind of goal as far as being
a James Bond stunt man one day well I feel I feel James Bond and Mission Impossible are
two movies or you know two franchise that I'd love to be a part of but also I mean it's
I feel the people running those shows have circles and they hire they hire kind of you
know they're people but I'd love to I'd love to be a part of it I mean I'm such a fan
of those movies you know the Mission Impossible are just so fun and just just as a as a performer
and even as a like a kid at heart you know I'd love to like you know be strapped to
the side of a plane or do this or do that or whatever it would be right like they just
do some really cool cool stunts and they they push the boundaries James Bond is another
one it's just a fantastic franchise and it kind of you know a new a new James Bond movie
or a new Mission Impossible movie just give you the opportunity to really push the limits
and come up with and do some really cool new innovative stunts so I think it would be fun
to be a part of. Beautiful I just I just checked to make sure I got my facts right I guess
he's listed as the front runner I guess it officially hasn't said but that's that's who
they're talking about yeah so so that'd be interesting if he ends up working on it. Yeah
I have I have no idea that would be cool if he is a James Bond though yeah he's a great
actor. Absolutely yeah I didn't realize he was kick-ass that blew me away because I saw
him on was it was it Money Train or Bullet Train recently that was a great film too for
stunts but yeah yeah well then one more area before we go to some closing questions I was
talking to Spencer about this and then some of the actors that have been on recently too
one would imagine that actors and stunt people stunt performers would be threatened by CGI
but then when I watch any of the Fast and Furious films or other areas where it's clearly
CGI I think as a viewer a lot of times it takes you out of the action and it was a breath
of fresh air seeing real stunts now of course as areas as you mentioned where technology
can make it a lot safer for our actors and stunt performers but what is your what is
the conversation about CGI threatening what you guys do or what do you think ultimately
it will complement what you guys do? I mean ultimately I think we can all work together
to create like a really good movie I'm on I'm on your side when I watch a movie that's
and you see a CGI character flying I'm like I just takes me out of it a little bit I can
tell I can I can I can tell that's not real movement you wouldn't do that it's just it's
just an animator kind of animating something and it takes me out of it but I think there's
a there's a time like I said there's a time and a place for it right and and it just depends
on if they if you know the people at the top want to kind of use it or not do I think it's
threatening I mean I don't know I just I don't I'm a I'm a fairly like if it does it does
you know and I'm not I'm not too worried I feel like we're always going to be we're always
going to be needed and stunts are always going to be around you're always going to need someone
to run in take a bullet hit or train the actors or do a fight like what they're going to use
CGI on everything they're still going to use actors like they're going to anytime an actor
throws a punch is it just going to be a CGI thing like it's just so much easier to have
a stunt person like I just think yeah for sure for safety reasons maybe it might be
it might be a thing and it might be an argument but I don't know I just I think there's enough
people around who want organic human movements and and can tell the difference that I don't
think it'll be a problem we'll see 10 years who knows well I think give another example
correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like a lot of films now even the muzzle flashes
on weapons scenes seem to be CGI not live blank ammunition which immediately takes me
out again because I'm like that's a little computer generated flash and now you're totally
out the story again yeah yeah and like I said there's there's a you know time and a place
sometimes it's done well sometimes it's not and you know the safety aspect especially
recently I think it's probably more of that because of what happened and maybe people
are just taking a precaution but you know especially the people holding the weapons
but hey just just right now I don't want to I want to stay away from from kind of blanks
and stuff like that you know I want to let's just do airsoft so there's absolutely no thing
and we'll put it in in post you know I understand that people are just kind of trying to protect
themselves especially in a sensitive time but and that to me is a little thing you know
if you have full CG body movement and things like that like whole scenes are just CG I'm
like I just that's just it just takes me out of it but but no I agree with you when I did
the terminator 2 show in Japan blank they weren't they weren't permitted to use blank
ammunition and the life stone show so we had you know the I can't remember if the weapon
flashed you know if they had a way of doing that but there was just a big there's a light
yeah it was something like that and then there was a big gunshot you know so again you're
having a time it perfectly because it was a gunshot on the soundtrack so if you fell
down too early but then I go to I think it was LA or Orlando next and they had actual
blank shotgun rounds and obviously they're aiming you know off-center to make sure they
don't shoot you in the face but it was a very different thing I mean the way that a shotgun
blast resonates in an auditorium is very different than you know the soundtrack so yeah I mean
it is they are two different things and you can do them safely I think Boland Productions
is an amazing job as you taught me you know every everyone that I did at Universal but
they scare the shit out of you first and they tell the Brandon Lee story and say these other
ones and you literally carry that weapon like you would a real one and any chance they can
they give you a rubber weapon for a fight scene or something like that but when it's
time to actually do it in the pirate show we had little little you know pirate era pistols
that we'd fire it does it's a totally different experience than putting it in artificially
after yeah absolutely yeah and I think you know with technology you know those are going
to get better and you know it doesn't create such a big flash anyway so you know airsoft
ones with the with the recoil are nice it gives you a bit of feedback as a performer
as opposed to just like pulling a trigger and a light shining and nothing really happening
but yeah there's there's ways around it with that stuff I think I think now is just a sensitive
time for for for all of that and people are kind of just being really cautious absolutely
all right well let's go to some closing questions so I can be mindful of your time the first
one I love to ask is there a book or are there books that you love to recommend it can be
related to our discussion today or completely unrelated oh god I'm terrible with this I
don't read books I read I have read project Hail Mary and I didn't even read it I just
did the I did the audiobook because I am I'm a terrible reader I I try to read the Harry
Potter books and I read a couple of pages and I forget what happens on a page so I found
that that listening to them is is a lot more helpful but I'm more of a I'm more of a more
of a podcast guy and I you know I listen to Hail Mary because that's currently the movie
I'm working on with Ryan so I listen to that book and that's it for me I'm a podcast listener
so that's how I kind of get my information which is some of your favorite shows that
you listen to love Rogan love the Lex Friedman and and then I'll do like I have like my MMA
shows that I listen to I'm a die-hard UFC so I'll do like a like an Ariel Hawani and
Luke Thomas and and all those guys I got Rashad Evans coming on next week speak of UFC fighters
yeah yeah I've had a bunch of Bas Root and hoist Gracie a lot of people on here as well
but yeah that's it that's an amazing community and physically I think very very similar to
stunts and firefighting because I really don't know what you're gonna do yeah I was talking
to someone else recently about it and he's very close to the UFC world and stunts and
fighting are quite similar it's you know it feels like you know they have a training camp
for a fight and they train to lead up to this one fight and then they have the performance
and the fight night and we're similar you know we have prep and we train in prep and
we get you know we kind of we're kind of stay in shape and stuff but we we get in shape
or whatever we rehearse at what we need to do and then we have the performance and on
the film it just I was just kind of last a little bit longer a lot longer but no it's
it's the dedication is is similar and the the the training is similar you know with
the fight training that we do and we put ourselves through it's it's quite similar yeah.
When I reflect back on the stunt registry book that I had and all these skills that
you needed at these high high levels as I got into the stunt world I realized that you
know back then was probably you know appropriate but now as you talk about if an actor needs
someone to double them in a stunt with a car you're going to find an elite driver if they
need to skydive you're going to find the elite skydiver if you need a martial artist or a
gymnast or a horse rider you're going to go to those people that can do it so has there
been a shift from one guy or girl being able to do a lot of different things to the specialization
and especially in some of these big films?
Well I I personally think the British Stunt Register is is a is a great thing I think
I think you should have to go through you know you should have skills in lots of different
areas you know that's what makes you a good a good performer.
I think it's a good thing I think you know the difference in England you have like you
you kind of have to do that there is kind of there's ways around it there's people
who aren't on the on the stunt register and you can still work but 90 percent of them
are on the stunt register they have all of these skills which mean and they've gone
through the process of getting on the register which in turn means that you have I forget
what it is it's like like six to ten you're you're you're graded on six to ten skills
and it's the same in Australia I think and that's great you're learning new skills and
everything you know they're kind of the bread and butter that you'll need to kind of for
90 percent of the stunts that you're going to need to do in the stunt industry and I
think that's a good thing in America it's quite you know anyone can be a stunt performer
you know you could you could technically hire someone off the street and and if they look
like someone you know which which isn't always the best thing I think it's good to have skills
and it's good to to train for something it's good to kind of you know that's the it's kind
of the same the the old the Chris O'Hara saying right like I'll call you in a year if you
stuck around for a year then I know you're serious if you train two years for the stunt
register and not you're not working during those two years because you're training for
it right you're actively trying to get your you know a Belly Martial Arts you're trying
to get your scuba license you're trying to do this you're trying to do that you're getting
your horse ride and your high fall or whatever it is you know that then you're working towards
something and it shows your dedication I think it's a good thing you know I I don't I don't
hate it I didn't even know about it when I got into stunts it was you know I had I had
my background in parkour and other sports when I was growing up and and I moved to America
and I didn't even realize that it was even a thing in here and later you realize and
I was like it's a good thing but but no I spent my early days doing that anyway you
know broadening my skill set and learning new things and just being a good all-around
stuntman and you're always going to have your specialty you know things you're always
going to have your your high fall specialist or your your car specialist and cars are very
really a special thing anyway like I would I would say I'm a kind of a you know a generic
general stuntman I kind of do everything and you know your wires and your your falls and
your fights and your your parkour and your you know whatever it would be right your fire
burns your your your air rounds like that's kind of all kind of in a general stunt thing
as a stunt performer you're kind of expected to kind of do all of that expected to be able
to do all of that and and then you have your specialties right like your your high fall
your cars your bikes maybe like underwater or your scuba or whatever it is so and that's
when you bring them in and then you'll have like random specialties where they'll they'll
need a stunt performer who's like a stilt performer or something or like a an obscure
unicyclist or whatever it would be right and then that's when you bring in the very very
specialty people who who who just do those things so yeah yeah I I don't think it's I
don't think it's a bad thing to have a little system in place to to kind of keep everyone
safe and make sure people are are fit and able to kind of do what's needed yeah I think
just it seemed like it would take a long time to hit a lot of those benchmarks so I guess
that the only takeaway is if it's something that you want to get into you know the earlier
the better like if you can knock away some of the diving stuff when you're young then
by the time you get to a working age you have a lot of these things if you decide at 22
that you want to get into stunts I would argue you've got several years of training to actually
hit all those points before you can actually start working I know a I know a bunch of people
when we're working on Fall Guy there was a couple of guys who were working with us who
I've known from the past who were trying to get into the into the onto the Australian
stunt register and I think they they had just submitted for their like final test or something
and they were like it's been it's taken me like nearly two years to do this and I think
like if there's a and I'm not too sure if there's a I think well there must have been
I think there's a system in place where while you're doing this you can also work as well
like in Sydney in Australia they have like a like different levels to it I think where
when you're training you can work as kind of like a bad guy 23 or something right you
can do kind of those and you need to get like 30 days of you know bad guy 23 under your
belt before you can move on to doubling or principle or whatever it is and and I don't
think that's necessarily a bad thing I think it's good to kind of get that set experience
and you know have have 30 days or 60 days or whatever it is like on set like taking
a bullet hit and then you go home and then coming in and doing a little fight scene and
then and then go home and and and I think that's I think that's great you know before
you kind of get into like lead Dublin and being able to do that while you're getting
your certifications and stuff I think that's a good thing is it like you said it's tough
if you are you know 22 25 and you're getting into it and it's like oh I have to sign up
to the stump register and I have to do this it's gonna take two years to do all this like
what do you do for those two years like how do you support yourself you know so it would
be good if and maybe there is a system in place but it would be good if there's a system
in place where you can kind of work on little things and be bad guy 20 27 and while you're
kind of getting you know your your certificates and your learning your skills and other things
absolutely all right well then next closing question is there a person that you recommend
to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders military and associated
professions of the world oh have you spoke to Logan I haven't no you haven't spoken to
Logan holiday not yet no yeah well I mean it's very fall guy is close to the fall guy
story but but but Logan I mean he's just he's got some incredible stories Logan and Logan
and Troy both I mean Troy just to tell the story of his dad and him were amazing you
know Chris O'Hara I'm just saying everyone from fall guy here I've spent the past like
like two months with them doing all this press and we've been sat next to each other for
so long and I've kind of got to know them very well and they've just they've all got
really cool stories and really cool experiences you know Chris O'Hara you know the first ever
stunt credited stunt designer just has so much experience in the movie industry and
he's such a great guy yeah well you know what's gonna happen is when we end up when we end
this conversation you're like I have a name that's okay doesn't have to be on tape let
me know and even David I mean you know ultimately I'd love to get him on too I mean to go from
stunt man all the way to that that role now yeah what a story yeah incredible story I
was getting to him next yeah yeah I mean you know all those guys have special special stories
and they'd be very interesting to to kind of talk to I think yeah well and correct me
if I'm wrong maybe it's just because I'm not in that stunt you know echo chamber but I
don't feel like you hear a lot of stunt people on podcasts in general so this is the one
kind of nice thing is that being a fireman and a live show stunt man at least I'm able
to kind of have these conversations understanding the industry slightly you know and bring some
of these up because my friend Steve we did Steve Dunleavy we did Terminator 2 together
in Japan and now he works with Keanu on all his all his movies and you know I mean he's
just had this this amazing rise so I think these are this is a beautiful way of telling
the stunt performer story on here too no I agree and it's been it's been strange for
us you know we we shy of this I've probably done a handful of interviews in my life right
but like this whole fog I think you know they they wanted to include us you know Ryan and
David and Kelly really wanted to include us in the press for this and bring us along and
you know like I said earlier shine a spotlight on the on the stunt industry and and in doing
so we've we've kind of gone along on this journey with them and it was so strange at
the start like we never do this we're never we're never like being requested to do interviews
and podcasts and walk in the red carpet and then having someone next to us being like
everyone this is Ben Jenkins from the Fall Guy who's trying to double and then we're
just like doing interviews on the red carpet it's like it was so strange and so just an
unusual and unfamiliar kind of position to be in but you also get used to it like I remember
the first time we sat down the first interview we did for like the press week for Fall Guy
it was like it was like three days of Universal and they just had a massive junket where over
these course of a couple of days we would just do 15 interviews a day and we'd do an
hour here and sit down on the couch and talk to someone and then we'd have a 15 minute
zoom call back to back with another 15 and then this and that it was like you know 10
15 interviews a day for like two three days and I remember the first interview we did
it's like it was we're sat on a couch and it was me and Logan David Ryan and Emily and
I'm like what am I doing here like my heart was beating so much because I'm like I'd
rather get hit by a car right now than like be sat here like I'm way more uncomfortable
here than I am like being hit by a car we were doing the Carpool Karaoke video and
Ryan and David came over and said alright so we're gonna come over and we're gonna
say this to you and then these are your lines and I'm like shit I have lines oh my god
and like this was right after I get hit by a car and I'm like stood in the middle of
the street like thinking about it and I'm like this is my line I'm gonna say it I'm
gonna do this like oh shit I forgot my line what was my line and Chris O'Hara the coordinator
was looking at me he laughed at me he's like you're worried about your lines aren't you
I was like yeah he's like you're not worried about getting hit by a car I'm just worried
about my lines and it was a small car hit anyway but it's like it's just unusual for
us it's unusual for us to be sat on a couch doing a on-camera in-person interview next
to some very seasoned professionals who do this all the time and there's me and Logan
and my heart's like beating out of my chest there's one part of the intro I looked down
because my heart was beating so much I'm like can you see my heart beating through my chest
like but yeah it was but then you get used to it and now I'm now it's like it's quite
I feel I feel fine I remember our last our last red carpet that we did in Paris I think
it was we did we did Berlin London Paris and then LA and we did South by before that as
well and on the way me and Logan were like so tired from all the traveling that we do
we just had like a little nap in the car then we woke up and got out onto the red carpet
it was quite it was just oh it's just a it's just another one but it kind of became a little
bit more normal towards the end and definitely got a little bit more comfortable with it.
It's interesting because I've seen the same thing in like the SAS for example you know
they were very much the silent professionals and then now you're starting to see some of
the books coming out and some of them being very vulnerable mental health which I think
is imperative because that debunks the you know men don't cry bullshit but um you know
there is that kind of tug of war between humility because the fire service we don't want to
be awarded want an award for what I do you know it's what we do but if we're too tight
lipped no one knows what we do so there's a kind of happy medium where you're not yearning
for the limelight but at the same time and I think this is probably a beautiful example
for you guys now you're given an opportunity to actually advocate for your community which
is very powerful.
Yeah I agree and you know growing up I was always like um against it and kind of uh you
know I don't want to do an interview I don't want to be that guy I don't want to do this
and then you kind of you know with the movie and with the documentary that we filmed alongside
of it it kind of like even the documentary was very hesitant to do it I don't want to
be I don't want to be on TV I don't want to do this I don't want to be that guy who's
looks like he's kind of out there for like the attention and I don't want the attention
I don't need it I'm just I want to stay low key um but then you realize kind of like what
it's kind of doing it it's you know there's a way to do it that's that's positive for
kind of you know the community as well and and and you know the bigger picture and and
once you kind of once I realized that it became a little bit easier I just I just felt like
I had to get better at it I felt like I was quite quite shit at it honestly and and and
not I'm not good at like selling myself and and and um you know just just talking in general
I'm quite like um choosy with my words and I'm I sometimes I don't always know what to
say but um but it's just like anything you get better at it you know you you get you
get better at um expressing what's on your mind in a good way and and um and it and that
all just kind of comes with a bit of practice and and it was quite nice to ultimately not
be forced into it but I kind of was like um you know with the documentary was just on
camera a lot and and doing it and and then this whole press story you're just like oh
wow like I'm getting I'm kind of getting a little bit better at this and um it just becomes
a little bit more natural and and you just get a bit more comfortable with what you're
saying and um the message that you're putting out especially if it's a positive one to um
you know not only yourself but the the positive message that is affecting um the uh the industry
that you work in so it was uh it's a good thing overall.
Absolutely someone said to me once there's a difference between being humble and being
meek and I was like I've leaned too far the wrong way you know you have to you you can
articulate a thought without coming across as a narcissist and that doesn't make you
um you know arrogant you know you just you have to be on the spotlight sometimes to be
able to relay a message that's important. Yep I agree I agree. All right well then the
very last question before we find out where people can find the film and obviously yourself
online what do you do to decompress when you're not flinging yourself on fire against walls?
Well I mean forgot I had a lot of that I was um golf on the weekends love around the golf
I'm actually playing tomorrow with the with the um with some of the rigging team and the
boys on this this show um music on the drive home big into music uh that kind of helps
with my mood in lots of things even before a stunt I'll put on some music if I have a
bit of time and or if someone's were prepping for a big stunt uh banging some music and
listen to some some tunes and kind of just getting a good headspace it not necessarily
to like hype me up or anything sometimes to hype me up or sometimes to just calm me down
or or just think good things and and uh just get into a place where you want to be to kind
of um go through what you're about to go through um cook a nice steak oof a nice little ribeye
or something or cook a nice steak have a nice glass of red wine or something um uh and yeah
have a good sleep ready for the next day yeah brilliant all right well then I went to see
the fall guy in the movie theater what is the kind of um anticipated streaming um platform
that they're going to go to next and then let's talk I have no idea oh really I have
no idea yeah I don't know um yeah it's it's universal uh or behind it um so I have no
idea what it's going to go on I just know it's um it's in movies now and it's it's
such a great watch it's a really I mean I've seen it uh four times in the theater now I
watched it in uh London IMAX as well with my parents and that was that was so great
I mean the screen there is massive have you been to London IMAX I haven't been to that
one is that in um Leicester Square the uh the BFI at South Bank oh okay gotcha yeah
um huge screen huge screen um but no I got to see it with my family there and I've seen
it four times now it's such a such a fun movie such a fun movie um and it's um full of action
from start to finish uh some of the some of the coolest action that I've ever been a part
of and I've ever seen on screen um but it's but it's a great watch when I did the Terminator
show the way it worked my I was a t-1000 the the bad guy my Robert Patrick's character
and so I'd get shot and then that's it I'm done because the rest of it is on on the screen
and so basically by the time I'd finished my last show and got changed I'd be walking
out when they were dumping the audience when when the show was done and so they'd all be
walking by me having no idea that I was just a little policeman that they saw get shot
in the face four times a few minutes ago when you're sitting there watching the film in
London is there a little moment of you you know going they have no idea that I'm the
one in this film um well maybe not then because like so you know we did the whole press store
and and every kind of um every place we went we did uh we did Berlin we did uh London we
did Paris and then we did LA so um at the start of it kind of you know Ryan and Emily
and David and and Kelly and all the the producers kind of come out on stage and then we come
out on stage too and they kind of give a little intro so it's kind of you know there was already
a little intro there um but yeah there's there's a little bit there it's more so I was sat
next to my you know it was the first time my mom and dad uh in London got to come to
one of these I mean it's one of the first times that we've ever got to we ever get to
go to one of these we don't really get to get to go to them often so um it was more
so it was like a really special moment for for them and kind of having them in the audience
and then you know doing the whole intro and then jumping off the stage and then coming
back around like 10 minutes after and joining them and watching the movie with them um that
was really special and it was more so um my dad next to me was that you son was that you
I was like yeah that was me and that because he's seen all the footage anyway like he's
seen I have so much on my on my phone of like the behind the scenes and and all the gags
that we did so and he's already seen those and he was just like oh I remember you showing
me that one I remember you showing me that one and um uh so it was more so kind of just
a little conversation between you know me I was sat next to my dad and just a little
conversation between my dad that we were having while it was happening and the things that
he was saying and his reactions um were really cool.
You mentioned the documentary when's that supposed to come out?
So it's out now it's on Peacock.
Oh okay.
Out in America and the documentary is called Action and it basically follows stunt performers
and their lives inside and outside of filming a movie and yeah the new season two is based
on Fall Guy so there's you know lots of different characters and who are kind of a part of it
myself and Justin Eaton, Logan Holliday, Troy Brown, Chris O'Hara, Keira Beck and then you
know a couple of the Aussie guys and yeah Dave Leach you know Ryan's in there so it's
just kind of following stunt people and kind of what they go through and their life before
or after during stunts and you know when the movie's being filmed and when the movie's
not being filmed but it's a very fun documentary and that also kind of added to the whole experience
of you know not only were we filming the craziest stunt movie I've ever done in my life but
we had to we were filming a documentary as well at the same time so it was just so much
so much going on.
Brilliant I'm gonna have to watch that I think I've got to resubscribe to Peacock but I will
just to watch that and so that looks amazing.
Great.
All right well then the final question if people want to find you online where are the
best places?
So I'm kind of like up until this I was a ghost online I don't really have I don't have
a Facebook or anything but I just have Instagram it's Benjenks and yeah go watch Fall Guy.
Beautiful well Ben I want to say thank you so much I mean it's been such an amazing conversation
yeah the film the Fall Guy like I said we were talking before we hit record I'm very
very cognizant of when a film is bad and it really irks me because you know I think we
put a lot of trust in a production that they're going to take us on a journey but I mean my
wife is laughing because I was just grinning like a Cheshire Cat the whole way through
the film so it is a phenomenal film so I want to thank you firstly for the film and secondly
for being so generous with your time and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today.
Well thank you very much for having me I've had a lot of fun and I'm glad you liked the
film.
you