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I'm extremely excited to announce a brand new sponsor for the Behind the Shield podcast

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that is Transcend.

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Now for many of you listening, you are probably working the same brutal shifts that I did

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for 14 years.

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Suffering from sleep deprivation, body composition challenges, mental health challenges, libido,

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hair loss, etc.

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Now when it comes to the world of hormone replacement and peptide therapy, what I have

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seen is a shift from doctors telling us that we were within normal limits, which was definitely

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incorrect all the way to the other way now where men's clinics are popping up left, right

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and center.

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So I myself wanted to find a reputable company that would do an analysis of my physiology

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and then offer supplementations without ramming, for example, hormone replacement therapy down

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my throat.

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Now I came across Transcend because they have an altruistic arm and they were a big reason

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why the 7X project I was a part of was able to proceed because of their generous donations.

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They also have the Transcend foundations where they are actually putting military and first

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responders through some of their therapies at no cost to the individual.

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So my own personal journey so far filled in the online form, went to Quest, got blood

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drawn and a few days later I'm talking to one of their wellness professionals as they

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guide me through my results and the supplementation that they suggest.

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In my case specifically, because I transitioned out the fire service five years ago and been

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very diligent with my health, my testosterone was actually in a good place.

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So I went down the peptide route and some other supplements to try and maximize my physiology

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knowing full well the damage that 14 years of shift work has done.

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Now I also want to underline because I think this is very important that each of the therapies

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they offer, they will talk about the pros and cons.

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So for example, a lot of first responders in shift work, our testosterone will be low,

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but sometimes nutrition, exercise and sleep can offset that on its own.

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So this company is not going to try and push you down a path, especially if it's one that

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you can't come back from.

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So whether it's libido, brain fog, inflammation, gut health, performance, sleep, this is definitely

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one of the most powerful tools in the toolbox.

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So to learn more, go to transcendcompany.com or listen to episode 808 of the Behind the

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Shield podcast with founder Ernie Colling.

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This episode is sponsored by Five Eleven, a company that I've used for well over a decade

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and continue to use to this day.

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And Five Eleven is offering you guys, the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast,

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a discount on every purchase you make with them.

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Before we get to that code, I want to highlight a couple of products that again, I personally

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use today.

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One of the most impressive products they just released is their Rush Backpack 2.0.

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Now for many of you, whether you're going to the fire station, the police station, whether

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you're traveling with your family, whether you're taking training courses, we have to

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fly, we have to drive, we have to take trains.

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And I have to say, I own multiple backpacks, many of Five Eleven's different ones, but

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as far as a day pack, this one was the most impressive.

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There are so many different compartments.

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The way it sits on your back is incredibly comfortable if you are a concealed carry person.

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There's also a spot for a weapon.

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So they've thought of multiple, multiple things that a man or woman would have to do on a

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daily basis.

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That is in addition to all of the products that I talk about a lot.

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They're uniforms fit for men or fit for women in the first responder professions.

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The footwear that they offer, whether it's the Norris sneaker or the Atlas system that

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is designed for foot health and therefore knees and back and hips and shoulders and

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neck.

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As a civilian, I live in a lot of their clothes as well.

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Their jeans stretch.

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You can actually squat down in them.

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We live in Florida here, so I wear a lot of their shorts, which again, very, very lightweight

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material.

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You can get it wet and it will dry almost immediately.

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And then moving to the fitness and tactical space, I used to have just a regular weight

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vest.

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Recently, I switched to a Five Eleven vest and actually bought ballistic plates as well.

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My thinking was simply, if I'm going to have a vest, why not have one that protects me

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as well?

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And that tack vest is trusted by law enforcement all around the country.

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So I mentioned they were going to offer you a discount code.

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So if you go to fiveeleventactical.com and enter the code SHIELD15, S-H-I-E-L-D-1-5,

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you will get 15% off not just that one purchase, but every time you visit their store.

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And if you want to learn more about Five Eleven, their mission, their products, then listen

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to episode 338 of the Behind the Shield podcast with the CEO and founder, Francisco Morales.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

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the show Fire Lieutenant and the man behind Tip of the Spear Leadership podcast, Mike

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Nasty.

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Now, in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics from his early life, his journey

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into the volunteer fire service, his 9-11 story, becoming a career firefighter, some notable

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leadership mistakes, his powerful mental health story, post-traumatic growth, the creation

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of his podcast and so much more.

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Now before he gets this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and

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leave a rating.

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Every single five-star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of well over 900 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

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I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Mike Nasty.

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Enjoy.

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Well, Mike, I want to start by saying thank you so much for taking the time and coming

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on the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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No, thank you for having me.

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I appreciate it.

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It's definitely an honor.

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So where on planet earth are we finding you this afternoon?

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Well right now I'm in Frederick, Maryland.

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I'm at home in my office and, you know, enjoying my day off.

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Beautiful.

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Well, I would love to start the very beginning of your timeline then.

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So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what

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your parents did, how many siblings?

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So I was born in Tucson, Arizona on Davis Month in Air Force Base.

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My dad was in the military and then we pretty quickly moved out to New Jersey and I grew

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up there most of my early life.

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I moved to Maryland when I was 12, 11 or 12, something like that.

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I don't remember anymore.

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But you know, my dad was in the military.

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I have one sister who's older than me and my mom was that stereotypical stay at home

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mom.

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So you know, she raised us for the most part because my dad was gone a lot with military

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stuff and then he was a cop as well once he stopped doing active duty and then he went

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into the National Guard.

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When you look back now, what were the pros and the cons of being a military child?

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I mean, it stopped fairly early in my life.

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I think the pros were, I think that the style in which you get raised, fairly conservative,

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fairly strict.

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I don't think I appreciated in the moment and you know, back then, but I think as I

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got older, it kept me from doing stupid things when I was younger.

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You know, the structure was there.

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I wasn't really afraid of my parents, but I feel like the structure at home would kept

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me from doing stupid things.

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I mean, I do a lot of dumb things.

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Don't get me wrong.

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I mean, I really did.

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But there's a lot of stuff that you know how it is peer pressured, different stuff with

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other kids.

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They're getting ready to go do a lot of really dumb stuff and you know, it kind of made me

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think to stop in my tracks and not follow them.

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And there's a few times where, you know, I kind of got made fun of because I wasn't one

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of the guys and all that and it kind of sucked.

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But there was a handful of times where they, I don't want to get into the details, but

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they went out and they did something really, really stupid.

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And thank God I wasn't a part of it because I probably wouldn't be where I am if I was

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involved.

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I don't know if that makes sense.

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No it does.

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Absolutely.

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Those records follow us.

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What about a child's perspective of a father in the first responder profession?

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So your dad, there was a cop.

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When you look back now with this mature lens, again, what were the pros and what were the

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cons?

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I think some of the pros were again, like I said before, the structure and the discipline,

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which I didn't appreciate till I was older.

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And by older, I mean like 18, 19 years old, I think.

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And I think some of the cons were just, and I kind of noticed it now when as I get older,

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like I kind of sometimes bring work home, not always in a bad way, but sometimes work

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crosses into your home life.

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And as I get older, that's something that I have to figure out and I'm still working

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through is really unplugging and flipping that switch.

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And I'm in my late thirties now.

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So my dad was similar age when I was growing up.

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I was the youngest and my parents were a little bit older when they had me and he brought

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a lot of work home in certain ways.

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And I wish that wasn't the case.

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I'll kind of leave it at that.

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It was, I mean, I think everything has its place, but I kind of wish, you know, he would

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have left a lot of that at work instead of bringing it home because it affected and impacted

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the dynamic at home as well.

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I think one of the least discussed elements that I think is really important is how do

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we punctuate a shift and that includes leaving it there.

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But there's a technology I came across about six, eight months ago called Newcom.

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I literally just did one before I sat down and did this interview today.

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And you put on this as an up regulation and a down regulation version of it.

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The up regulation one I've been using when I'm writing my book and it's phenomenal for

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focus and then the down regulation is basically you think of you are trying to simulate asleep,

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but it's not a sleep.

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You're in this kind of relaxed state that almost almost dances between sleep and awake

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and there's a one called power nap.

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That's 20 minutes and it is I'm at the fire service now, but if I was still in, I would

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hands down do a 20 minute power nap on this app between every single shift and going home

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because to feel like you've rested and you basically get like a couple hours worth of

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sleep through this thing, but also it down regulates you.

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So you were doing God knows what at 3 a.m.

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You know, you came back.

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You got a little bit of sleep.

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Then, you know, if you're in a shitty department, the tones woke you up.

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The shift change.

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If you're in a good department, they let you sleep.

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But either way, and now you've got to go home and you were just, you know, cutting the kid

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out of a car.

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Now, three hours later, your little boy or little girl is going to run into your arms.

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So I think that's a really important conversation of, you know, not just not bringing it home,

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but the acute ending of every shift.

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What can we do to make sure that when we walk through the door, we're not in the same state

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as when we were wearing the uniform an hour before?

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I think, you know, and I'm actually glad you brought that up, because I've had this conversation

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with a few people.

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You know, I think there is a lot of stuff that, you know, makes what we do for a living

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difficult.

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But I also think, you know, people do need to take the time and actually put forth the

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energy and the effort into finding ways to unplug.

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So and this is going to sound a little callous, but like what I've learned to teach myself

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is to not care.

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Right now, as a human being, of course, I'm going to care.

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And I guess what I mean by that is I can't personalize it.

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Right.

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So if you have a seven year old kid that's all jacked up and I have a seven year old

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at home, I'm not going to make an attachment, because once you start making that attachment,

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that's when it's going to start sticking with you.

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And what I've learned was the less I give us the less I the less I care.

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And I'm not saying I'm not going to care for you and give be sympathetic, empathetic and

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all that.

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I'm not saying I won't be that way, because I will be that way, because I feel that in

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those tough calls in those moments, especially with people that we work with, you know, because

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they're just as important as anyone we ever serve.

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If not a little bit more, you know, you're going to have to make that connection.

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But when you're able to detach, I think is maybe the word I'm trying to say, which is

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a better word.

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When you're able to do that and then you think clearly, you're able to be clearer.

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So you know, I do think it's a lot of a little bit more on us as first responders and firefighters,

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especially company level officers, which is kind of where I'm at.

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You know, you have to find your way to detach.

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And the more you detach, the more clarity you have in decision making.

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And I feel like it's the same when it comes to unwinding from work.

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So like, you know, like I said, you know, your your child is sick, really sick or really,

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really injured.

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And it's terrible.

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I completely sympathize with the child with the parent.

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But when I when the call is done, calls over, put it behind me, you know, and it's taking

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me I mean, I'm not saying I do that really good every time.

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But in my 17 years in the department, that's one thing I was taught in the very, very,

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very beginning was you can care, but don't become attached.

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If that I don't know if that's the right way to say that.

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But that's I don't know what a guy teach me that.

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And like I said, I don't always do it the right way.

229
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But that's one thing I've really focused on, especially after having a kid.

230
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And we run kids.

231
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:02,040
You know what I mean?

232
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Like especially the not so great calls that involve children.

233
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:06,360
Yeah.

234
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:07,360
Yeah.

235
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,640
The way I look at it is and I've said this many, many times when we're on the call, you

236
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:16,440
know, I talk about the yen and the yang and it's the kindness, compassion, the soft part

237
00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,320
of a human being that pulls us into uniform in the first place.

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Now we're in uniform and we're extricate in a family or, you know, pulling out a partially

239
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,300
burned person from a fire.

240
00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:30,720
That's not the time to queen out and, you know, be thinking about rainbows and kittens.

241
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You got a job to do.

242
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,960
But I look at it almost like the in tray out tray.

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00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,700
There's still an emotional cost there.

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00:14:38,700 --> 00:14:45,080
So if you are diligent on your days off and doing things that ultimately will allow that

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00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:49,120
emotional response to them be put in the out tray, then you're going to be good for the

246
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:50,200
next one.

247
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,880
But if you just keep shoving it down and don't do the work to process how you felt about

248
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,720
because you still have empathy for that child, even if it's not your own, you've compartmentalized.

249
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,080
I think that's the big part.

250
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,980
So we become this kind of white circle instead of remembering that we're always a yen yang.

251
00:15:05,980 --> 00:15:10,560
And so if you ignore the black part, the soft part, the yang, then eventually it's going

252
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:11,840
to catch up with you.

253
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:22,080
So I think that you're absolutely right, compartmentalization is imperative when we're on scene, but also

254
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,600
being diligent of unpacking that when you're off.

255
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,200
It doesn't have to be specifically, I'm going to think about this kid, but I'm going to

256
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:28,200
spend time with my family.

257
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:29,200
I'm going to get outside.

258
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I'm going to make sure I sleep well tonight.

259
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,920
That will then organically allow you to offload what you went through and compartmentalize

260
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:36,120
because you had to.

261
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:37,120
Sure.

262
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:38,120
Yeah.

263
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:43,440
So, and this is probably something I'm sure you experienced too, like every time I've

264
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:49,520
ran like a really jacked up call, like a really bad call, someone somewhere cracks, probably

265
00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:55,940
the most inappropriate joke or the darkest humor of the situation.

266
00:15:55,940 --> 00:16:02,280
And I'm telling you right now, I think that is the most therapeutic thing because everyone's

267
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,240
thinking the same thing, especially when it comes to kids.

268
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,880
Everyone's thinking the same damn thing because everyone has a kid that I work with and somebody

269
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:16,840
makes some kind of inappropriate joke away from the call after the call and they do it

270
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:17,840
in the correct time.

271
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,220
I want to make sure I make that very clear.

272
00:16:19,220 --> 00:16:22,960
The correct time, they make that dark humor.

273
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:29,520
I think people need to embrace the dark humor more, especially when it's really timed correctly.

274
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,500
It's not about the joke.

275
00:16:31,500 --> 00:16:39,040
The joke is funny, obviously, but subconsciously, everybody knows what everyone else is feeling

276
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:46,640
and the joke is kind of the segue to say without saying it because you know how guys are.

277
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:47,640
I know what you're feeling.

278
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:48,640
I feel it too.

279
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,820
And we're going to be all right because we're going to get through this together.

280
00:16:50,820 --> 00:16:52,260
Let me crack a joke for you.

281
00:16:52,260 --> 00:16:57,260
That way we all know we're on the same page and we say it without saying it.

282
00:16:57,260 --> 00:17:00,060
Now let's have a good laugh together and move on.

283
00:17:00,060 --> 00:17:03,920
And that's, I think, the important part of the humor, especially the inappropriate humor.

284
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:09,920
I can't tell you how many times inexperienced people in the fire department come in and

285
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:10,920
they hear jokes.

286
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,520
They're like, how are you laughing and joking right now?

287
00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,600
And so I embrace the jokes.

288
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,600
And I had a conversation with a guy with very little time on and we ran a really, really

289
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:23,160
bad one of the worst calls I think I've ever been a part of in my entire fire service career.

290
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,720
And somebody cracked a joke and we all kind of chuckled and I kind of grinned and the

291
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:27,720
guy was a newer guy.

292
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,200
I was working overtime and he was just like, hey, can I talk to you?

293
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:32,200
I'm like, yeah, sure.

294
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:37,720
And he's like, hey, so like, do you guys usually make jokes after things like this?

295
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:39,080
I don't feel like I want to laugh.

296
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:42,140
And I'm like, hey man, everybody feels the way you do.

297
00:17:42,140 --> 00:17:43,240
This is how we deal with it.

298
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:44,240
We make jokes.

299
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,120
And then when you go home, when you leave work, you figure out your own way to put it

300
00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:49,120
somewhere.

301
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:56,220
But you have to add humor into this because like I said before, you know, fire department's

302
00:17:56,220 --> 00:18:00,480
very ego driven and it's a lot of guys, type a personalities that don't open up about their

303
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:01,480
feelings.

304
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:02,480
They don't.

305
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:03,480
That's just how it is.

306
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,080
But it's the way where if you're part of it, you'll get it.

307
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:07,720
And I think he understood that.

308
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,160
And he kind of was like, well, nobody ever told me this guy's young.

309
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:11,160
I don't even think he was 20.

310
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,520
He's well, nobody ever told me this is kind of how it is.

311
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,000
And I'm like, here's your first lesson.

312
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,620
Like I'm not saying I'm the guy to teach you everything, but you know, these guys that

313
00:18:19,620 --> 00:18:21,200
cracked the jokes, they're older.

314
00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,600
They have a couple of them had more time on than me.

315
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,600
And it's just like, this is how this is how they deal with things, you know.

316
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,360
And of course I'm like, you know, hey, the department has a way, you know, people for

317
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:31,360
you to talk to.

318
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:39,400
And I offered the political or not political, the correct officer answer as well to him,

319
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,400
obviously, because the humor again isn't for everyone.

320
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:43,400
And I respect that.

321
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,400
So, you know, I offered him, you know, the EAP, peer support, all that stuff.

322
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,160
But I explained to him, you know, a lot in the firehouse, a lot of the times, these guys

323
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,360
trying to fix things themselves, just like anything else.

324
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:55,960
If something's broken, they want to fix it themselves.

325
00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:01,080
And I think it's something we should support because if you, again, like I said, you know,

326
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:05,120
inappropriate jokes at correct times, right?

327
00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:07,400
Because you can't make the inappropriate joke at the wrong time.

328
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,080
It doesn't work that way, right?

329
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:10,080
But you know what I'm saying.

330
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,720
And I'm sure a lot of the people that are listening know that what I'm talking about

331
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:17,320
is, you know, you come back to the firehouse, you're away from the call, you know, all that

332
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:18,520
and you crack that joke.

333
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:23,040
It's again, like I said, it's, you know, everyone kind of subconsciously saying, hey, man, I

334
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:24,040
know what you're feeling.

335
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,040
I'm feeling it too.

336
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,200
Let's have a laugh and let's move on.

337
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:28,200
And I think it's important.

338
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:29,200
And I think the kid got it.

339
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,200
And he seemed very receptive to it.

340
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:36,280
And, you know, I haven't really followed up with him on it to be like, hey, how you feeling?

341
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,360
But like, you know, I see him, I see him kind of regularly and he's always in a great mood

342
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:43,240
and you know, he loves the job and he's doing really well.

343
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:44,800
So I guess it helped.

344
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:45,800
I don't know.

345
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:46,800
Maybe I should ask.

346
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:47,800
Yeah, you probably should.

347
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:48,800
There's a sign.

348
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:49,800
Yeah, I mean, yeah, no, it's a good point.

349
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:58,200
But this is interesting because I heard someone recently, I think they were on the show talking

350
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,160
about how laughter actually down regulates the nervous system.

351
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,820
Like the ability to laugh literally brings you from sympathetic back down to parasympathetic.

352
00:20:06,820 --> 00:20:10,240
And then I was just thinking when you were talking to use an old analogy, because I'm

353
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:11,560
about to turn 50.

354
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:16,240
If you think of a record player, when we're coming out of a really, because it's they

355
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,240
are that really fucking sad these calls and you're stuck in sad mode.

356
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,720
And I feel like what a joke does is kind of pulls that needle out of that groove and you're

357
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:24,720
allowed to reset.

358
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:25,720
Sure.

359
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:30,720
And you know, and I think the other context that people listening should understand as

360
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,520
well is, you know, it's just like anything else, you're going to remember the impactful

361
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,600
moments, but there's a ton of great times as well.

362
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:39,600
Right.

363
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,080
So think of how much fun and how much you enjoy laughing and joking with guys in the

364
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,860
back of the engine bay and all the chucking and jiving and the ball breaking and all that.

365
00:20:47,860 --> 00:20:48,860
So those are high points.

366
00:20:48,860 --> 00:20:50,640
Those are points that you love and you enjoy.

367
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,520
And those are the things that make you want to go to work.

368
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:54,520
Right.

369
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,540
But those are also the things.

370
00:20:56,540 --> 00:21:00,700
Those are also the things when you're in those shitty moments that you think back to and

371
00:21:00,700 --> 00:21:05,440
make you, you know what, I have this great click with these guys.

372
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,920
And if I'm going to deal with this bullshit, I want to deal with it with them because we're

373
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,400
all in this together and they're going to have, they're going to support me.

374
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,000
I'm going to support them and we're going to have a lot of good laughs.

375
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,080
And maybe I'm lucky in my career.

376
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:22,880
I don't know, but I feel like there are bad times, but there's a substantial amount of

377
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,080
good times as well.

378
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:29,280
So when the bad times do come and they will, and they're going to get tough and you know,

379
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:34,080
this job has a way of giving you a nice sucker punch of reality.

380
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,080
Remember your good times and don't be a negative dweller.

381
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,720
I think that's my biggest message.

382
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,480
I tell people, don't be negative.

383
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:45,080
There's a lot of self-proclaimed experts out there that talk about all these bad things

384
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:46,600
in the fire department.

385
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:47,880
There's a lot of stuff that sucks.

386
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:49,120
I'm not going to lie to you.

387
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:51,040
There's there's longish.

388
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:55,680
The longest days of my life have been on at work and you know, the shittiest times where

389
00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:03,400
things feel like they're hours and not only minutes, like shitty times are at work, but

390
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,120
there's a substantial more amount of good times.

391
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:11,840
That's why the bad times suck so much is they don't come as often as the times when you're

392
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,880
laughing and joking and having a great time and you know, fires don't ever come anywhere

393
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:17,600
near as much as you want.

394
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,800
But the point that I'm making here is think of having, I'm sure you've been through this

395
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,400
where you're in a bit of a lull, you know, you guys haven't really done a whole lot of

396
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,040
work and everybody's kind of getting on their nerves and then you run a really good fire

397
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,800
or you run a nice reps fire where it's just a room off and everybody gets to stretch their

398
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,840
legs, throw out their skills and get a good, get a good run.

399
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:37,760
Everybody's freaking happy.

400
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,320
They love it's the best thing in the world.

401
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,040
This, you know, and I hear this a lot, you know, I was bitched about this job sucks,

402
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,720
but damn, this is a lot of fun, right?

403
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,980
We'll just remember those good times.

404
00:22:48,980 --> 00:22:51,240
Stop dwelling on the negativity.

405
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,240
Stop gearing your entire life towards what's not going for you and remember the great things

406
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,600
that you have, you know, it's, and that's the whole point that I'm making is that the

407
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,000
super, super highs are there.

408
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:07,480
So are the lows, but the highs are so good, I think that if you keep those in your mind

409
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:12,160
and not only focus on those lows, I think the low times and the, you know, the, the,

410
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,720
uh, the valleys, I guess is a better word than lows.

411
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,640
You know, when you're at your peach, remember your, remember your peaks when you're at the

412
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,000
vow or yeah, remember your peaks when you're at the valleys, right?

413
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:30,560
And I think people just need to have a better mindset, quite frankly, cause you know, and

414
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,840
again, maybe social media is a little tarnished.

415
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,400
Maybe the podcasting is a little tarnished.

416
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:39,920
I don't know, but like, you know, maybe, maybe negativity kind of sticks out a little bit

417
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,480
more as opposed to something that you're, you know, maybe you're normal.

418
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:45,480
I don't know.

419
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:50,240
And by no means am I, and I knocking anyone, but you know, if all you talk about is negativity

420
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:55,040
and the bad and how terrible things are, I think you're going to have a bad attitude

421
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,440
all the time because there's no way you can forget the good times.

422
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,360
There's no way you're everything's so bad that that's all you can talk about.

423
00:24:01,360 --> 00:24:03,240
You got to balance it out, man.

424
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,320
You really do.

425
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:11,280
When I think of loading hose, those are some of my most memorable fun moments after a good

426
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:12,840
fire or cleaning source.

427
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,240
If you're on a truck that day, but, um, but if you think about it, how many times you

428
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,200
load hose in the academy wasn't super fun then, you know, it was like, fuck, we've got

429
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:21,200
to do it again.

430
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,480
But now the situation is different.

431
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,880
But I think, you know, when you've experienced a lot of darkness, as you said, where it

432
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,480
can be the actual calls, it can just be the unending shifts and sleep deprivation.

433
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,920
It does make the fun things even more fun.

434
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,160
So just loading up wet hose at three in the morning and you're exhausted, but you know

435
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,580
that you tried and you made a difference in someone's life.

436
00:24:42,580 --> 00:24:47,520
That does taste a lot sweeter because you've known the other side of the spectrum and it

437
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:48,720
can be a volleyball game.

438
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,080
It can be a crew dinner.

439
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,680
It can be whatever, but I agree with you completely.

440
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:57,880
And I think that's, that's why these, these conversations need to be nuanced with the,

441
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,760
the good and the bad, because when it's bad and it's preventable, I'm going to be beating

442
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,200
that drum all day long because that's not about the job.

443
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,400
That's about the working conditions and the environment and the toxic leadership and some

444
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:09,960
of those things that need to change.

445
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,660
And we're going to get into that.

446
00:25:11,660 --> 00:25:14,000
But the profession itself, I couldn't agree with you more.

447
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,680
This is, you will say, Oh, it's a great job in the world.

448
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,880
No, it absolutely actually is like no one else, no other profession in the world.

449
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,280
The people push three numbers on a phone and if it's not involving arresting someone, we

450
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:31,120
come and try and unfuck your day, you know, from whatever bird in a tree through the,

451
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:33,400
you know, child got washed downstream in a sewer.

452
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:34,400
We've got to go find it.

453
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,400
You know what I mean?

454
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,800
So it is an incredible skillset and incredible profession.

455
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,880
And I agree with you a hundred percent that the humor and the sports and all the things

456
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:48,040
that some people seem to be opposed to, that's how we keep going a hundred percent.

457
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:53,280
But as far as negativity, I think there's a big difference between bitching and fighting

458
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:54,840
for solutions to problems.

459
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,760
And that needs to be the kind of understanding of, you know, if you're going to fix something,

460
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,080
then fix it, bring the solution to it.

461
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,320
If you empty bitch, that's just pure negativity.

462
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:04,320
Yeah.

463
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:09,240
And I mean, you, you also need to allow the bitching a little bit, right?

464
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,080
It's, it's kind of like being married.

465
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,520
You could be right or you could be happy.

466
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,200
So if you.

467
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,800
Say that you're laughing, so you know exactly what I'm talking about.

468
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:29,800
So but, but all kidding aside, you know, sometimes they just want to talk and bitch and complain

469
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:34,040
for someone to hear them say their piece.

470
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:35,040
Right.

471
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:40,120
So don't fill that with a false sense of, oh yeah, oh no, I got you genuinely listen.

472
00:26:40,120 --> 00:26:41,120
Give a shit.

473
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:45,640
I mean, all kidding aside, what I've found is, you know, just like, just, just like at

474
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:50,480
home, let her say her piece.

475
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,240
I don't necessarily, I may not necessarily always agree, but you're not really wrong.

476
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:56,240
All right.

477
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:57,240
You got it.

478
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:58,240
Yep.

479
00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,240
Sure.

480
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,240
Again, you could be right.

481
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:01,240
You could be happy, I think.

482
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,840
And you can't always fix their problems.

483
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,200
Then that's the point that I'm making.

484
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,520
I say that the right or happy part with being married as a joke, right?

485
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:09,520
That's obviously that's for humor.

486
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:15,480
Well, I mean, it's true, but in the context, it was to, you know, in a joking, in a, I

487
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,800
say it in jest, but in reality, when it comes to people complaining, because everyone's

488
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,440
going to hear the complaining, any rank, any department, anywhere, someone always has something

489
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,360
to complain.

490
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:28,640
And if you're a firefighter, listen to a colleague, you're an officer, listen to a firefighter,

491
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:33,280
you're a firefighter, listening to an officer, an officer, whatever, whatever, whatever you

492
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,040
want, you're not there to solve their problems.

493
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:40,400
I don't, I can't change what this, what's, I mean, you know, I mean, if you can change

494
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:41,640
it, then you probably should.

495
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,600
But what I've always found, especially as an officer is the stuff people are griping about,

496
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,520
I cannot immediately fix or change.

497
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,240
There's nothing I can do.

498
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:57,720
All I can do is listen, sincerely care, legitimately try to find a problem, offer suggestions,

499
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,120
and maybe even, I don't want to say curb the way they think, but maybe give them perspective.

500
00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:06,060
Because again, it's all perception, you know, because what I think is going on, maybe different

501
00:28:06,060 --> 00:28:07,200
way you think is going on.

502
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:12,480
If there's no communication from above or whatever, wherever that's coming from, people

503
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,080
are going to make up their own reality.

504
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:19,400
That's why the biggest failures from leadership, I think, is lack of communication and transparency.

505
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:20,600
And that's a gripe.

506
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,320
And when people don't know what's going on and they don't understand what's going on,

507
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:24,860
they're going to make up their own reality.

508
00:28:24,860 --> 00:28:26,560
That's how rumors start.

509
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,260
So communication and listening, that's all you have to do.

510
00:28:30,260 --> 00:28:33,840
So that's the point that I was making about, you know, if people want to complain, just

511
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:34,840
listen to them.

512
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:35,840
That's all they want.

513
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:36,840
They want somebody to hear them.

514
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,440
They want somebody to just genuinely give a shit and listen to what they have to say,

515
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:46,040
you know, and again, relationship wise, I mean, how many times has your wife been like,

516
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:47,680
she's venting to you and it's like, oh, well, what do you think?

517
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,000
Well, I don't want to hear what you have to think.

518
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,000
I just want you to listen.

519
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,000
Okay, go ahead.

520
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,160
I don't think, I really don't think it's, I think it's similar.

521
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:56,240
I really do.

522
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,840
And I've had a lot of success as an officer where, you know, over time, just listening

523
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:07,200
to people, things start having a weird way of coming back to each other and reconnecting

524
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,080
and like ripples in a pond where if you just genuinely listen to people, you're going to

525
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,200
start hearing a lot of the same things and that can help you as an officer.

526
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,800
If you're not that great, you're trying to find your way.

527
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,200
You're learning how to be an officer, that kind of stuff.

528
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:24,240
And then I think as a crew integrity part, which is clearly the most important part because

529
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:30,240
I've been a firefighter, I've been an officer and I feel like when I had coworkers that

530
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:35,640
listen to me and I listen to them, that's when we start creating that bond, I think.

531
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,000
And then you start creating that bond with guys that you're in charge of.

532
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,120
And you know, when you have an officer and he's listening to you and you can tell that

533
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:48,840
he really cares, that's when your complaints, you feel more comfortable coming out and complaining.

534
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,080
Not to whine and complain, but well, now I trust you and I feel comfortable talking to

535
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:53,080
you.

536
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,000
So I'm going to talk to you about my gripes and my complaints.

537
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:57,960
And I think that's impactful.

538
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:58,960
I really do.

539
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,240
I think it's the best thing you can do is just as a human being is just listen to people

540
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,000
and they have something to say, especially if they're complaining about it.

541
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,520
Absolutely.

542
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,040
Just so you know, Mike, every time you lean back on your chair, you go away from your

543
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,520
mic and you're super tinny.

544
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,720
Just just just you can't tell because you're in that room, but I can hear it through here.

545
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,000
I'll stay close.

546
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,560
All right.

547
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,720
Well, I want to go back to early life.

548
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:29,480
Percy, what were you doing as far as sports and exercise?

549
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:36,480
So I was not going to be a professional athlete, but I enjoyed playing baseball, playing lacrosse

550
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,760
and I did some ice hockey.

551
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,040
You know, it was fun.

552
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:42,040
I enjoyed it.

553
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:50,000
But, you know, I played high school, high school lacrosse, I did rec baseball and then,

554
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,080
yeah, like recreational and local hockey.

555
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,720
How did you find lacrosse by my son was actually just talking about it the other day, but it

556
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:05,960
seems like it's a good mix of a contact sport teamwork, but not such an immense contact

557
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,520
like you would find in hockey or football that would be detrimental to a young athlete.

558
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:16,400
So the high school, I went to Northern High School in Owings and every year they do like

559
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,000
a recruiting thing.

560
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,680
So like, you know, you do freshman orientation and then the athletic department comes out

561
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,000
and they have all their stuff out there.

562
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:30,960
Lacrosse season, like, like they have lacrosse tryouts for varsity, but then they'll have

563
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,320
junior varsity announcements kind of thing.

564
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,240
I mean, it's been a while.

565
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,240
I don't know if I'm remembering that correctly, but basically the long story short is you

566
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:44,720
see flyers and stuff come out beforehand before the season starts because the season was,

567
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,640
should have started, practices started in February and then did strength and conditioning

568
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:56,160
all through February and March and the first games, I believe started at the end of March

569
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,200
and they ran March to May.

570
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:04,120
Yeah, like a week or two before the end of the school year is when lacrosse ended.

571
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,240
And that's how I got into it.

572
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:07,800
It was just stuff all over the walls.

573
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:13,200
And then one of my history teachers was one of the head coaches and I had him as a freshman

574
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,440
and that's one of the things he brought up in his class.

575
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:20,880
One of the first days is like, you know, Hey, just so you guys know, spring sports is, you

576
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:25,160
know, after the new year, I'm the head coach for lacrosse, Mr. Henchcliffe taught American

577
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,960
history and he said, you know, Hey, if you guys are interested, come talk to me.

578
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,600
And I'm like, I mean, I play sports for school.

579
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:33,600
That's me.

580
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:34,600
That seems pretty interesting.

581
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:43,120
But as far as contact, I mean, I don't think it was that bad, but I got throttled a few

582
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:49,000
times, so you could still get pretty beat up in that sport.

583
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,480
And it's not so much like guys throwing shoulders into your chest or anything like that because

584
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,580
of men's lacrosse, you can check.

585
00:32:55,580 --> 00:33:01,800
So like you can get cross checked, but a legal check is having your hands together and then

586
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,080
hitting someone that's a legal hit.

587
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,560
You know, if your hands are apart, that's a cross check and you're not supposed to do

588
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,840
that, but you can also check the stick.

589
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:14,000
So as you're running and cradling and this guy's just, I mean, and I had it a few times,

590
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,680
they'll just crank on you with the stick, trying to hit it.

591
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,880
And then, I mean, but they limit it because the referee will be like, you know, it was

592
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,800
always funny when I was an adult, you know, when I was younger, I was laughed hearing

593
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:23,800
this.

594
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,680
You hear the referee yelling, get wood, get wood, get wood.

595
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,720
If you keep smashing this dude and you keep hitting his body, you're not hitting a stick,

596
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,440
they're going to call you for slashing.

597
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,040
So like, obviously you're going to hit the hands, you're going to hit the wrist, you're

598
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:38,040
going to hit the arms.

599
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,040
It's part of the sport.

600
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:40,040
It's not going to happen.

601
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:45,000
But I think that was their way of stopping the excess because I never, you know, I was,

602
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,120
I played goalie and then a long pole midi.

603
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,560
And so my possession of the ball was not, I mean, you could get checked and hit, but

604
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:58,000
it wasn't like a guy that was a regular mid midi or a guy playing attack.

605
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,020
So it was a little bit different.

606
00:34:00,020 --> 00:34:05,760
So I was always the one, you know, like I said, long pole midi or long or defense or

607
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:10,800
bowling where I'm, you know, not really in that position too much, but I was in the position

608
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,560
to, you know, check people and all that stuff.

609
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,320
And I'm smaller, so I didn't do that great.

610
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,200
And I didn't run that fast.

611
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,880
I didn't run slow, but I wasn't, I don't know, man.

612
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:27,800
I enjoyed playing it, I think a little bit more than I was talented, but they don't cut

613
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,460
people in Southern Maryland sports.

614
00:34:30,460 --> 00:34:33,280
So that was, that was cool.

615
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:34,280
That's actually a good thing though.

616
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:38,760
That's something I've observed, just watching sports since I've been a parent here in America

617
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:45,040
is, you know, you can get in programs where your child may barely play, which to me defeats

618
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,680
the entire purpose of putting your child in sport.

619
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,640
So if you're in an environment, whatever that looks like, where the kids get to play most

620
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,480
of the time, I would say that was a good thing, not a bad thing.

621
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:55,480
Yeah.

622
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,640
And I think it also depends on the level in which you're at.

623
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,960
I think when they're younger, like my son's seven.

624
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:06,480
So I mean, when he does recreational sports, if you're paying to be there and it's not

625
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:12,760
an established competitive league, I think it's okay if you play, I think it's fine if

626
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,520
you play obviously, but like, if you like, there's some travel, like for lacrosse and

627
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,520
stuff like that, you have to try out and then you have to earn your place.

628
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:25,040
I do still think there's a good thing to being part of a team and then you have a level of

629
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,880
accountability, right?

630
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,280
We want you playing level here.

631
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,360
Well, you're down here and you're not meeting it.

632
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:31,360
You're not playing.

633
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:33,520
Here's the option to get up here.

634
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,360
And we have practices three days a week or two days a week and tournaments on the weekends

635
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,080
or whatever.

636
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,240
You need to start creeping up and get more playing time.

637
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:43,280
But if you don't, you're not playing, even though you're paying the exact same amount

638
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:44,600
as everybody else does.

639
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,760
If you're not putting in the work, I don't think you should play.

640
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,960
And I think that's a good thing when they hold people accountable and hold a standard,

641
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,320
because when you let standards slack, that's when everything else overall starts to drop

642
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,120
it, it dropped as well.

643
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,320
Now, you know, 10 year old kids playing travel baseball, are they going to understand that

644
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:01,320
concept?

645
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:02,960
Probably not.

646
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,840
But I don't think you're ever too young to have a standard that you're held accountable

647
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:08,840
to.

648
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,240
And then if you don't meet it, you're held accountable as well.

649
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:16,160
Or you don't get, I don't want to say you don't get what everyone else gets.

650
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,520
That's not the right way to say that.

651
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:23,040
You don't get what you don't work for, I guess is the best way to say that.

652
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,780
I'm a big, I mean, when they're young, whatever, I'm not a big fan of participation trophies

653
00:36:26,780 --> 00:36:28,920
of any kind in any way.

654
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:35,640
Even my kid, like, you know, T ball and coach pitch baseball, and he's starting flag football

655
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,640
this year.

656
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,840
You know, they give everybody gets a medal.

657
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:41,840
All right, that's cool.

658
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,920
It's a time in your life to remember, but that's probably where it's going to end for

659
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:46,920
me.

660
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,280
I'm not a your second place.

661
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:49,960
You didn't get a trophy because you don't win the championship.

662
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,120
Oh, well, when the championship, if you want the trophy, if you want it that bad, you're

663
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:54,120
going to work for it.

664
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,800
I mean, quite frankly, as I don't know, man, I don't know.

665
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,680
Maybe I'm too abrasive, but that's.

666
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,640
I think the danger is because I hear this conversation all the time.

667
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:11,480
I think the danger is, I mean, you've only one person or one team can win and not giving

668
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,040
everyone an equal award for that.

669
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:15,560
I totally understand.

670
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,000
But here's an irony.

671
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,440
If you ran the London Marathon, what do you expect at the end of it?

672
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,200
Your shiny little participation trophy.

673
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:23,200
Did you win?

674
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:24,200
No, the Kenyan one.

675
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:25,200
So then why should we give you a medal?

676
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:26,820
Because you fucking run a marathon.

677
00:37:26,820 --> 00:37:27,820
That's why.

678
00:37:27,820 --> 00:37:32,960
So I think that we can also dissuade children from simply playing sports.

679
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:38,240
If we're peddling this, if you didn't win, then you're not worthy of recognition, because

680
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:42,480
I think that kids that wake up every morning on a Sunday and go do a triathlon that don't

681
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,520
win, you know, there's they should be, you know, told good job for that.

682
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,280
That can be a shiny piece of plastic or whatever you want to do.

683
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,760
But you know, understanding that there's a lot of value for showing up, training for

684
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,400
sweating, for bleeding.

685
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,140
And just because you didn't podium.

686
00:37:59,140 --> 00:38:02,160
And let's be honest, in some environments, you're never going to because say you're

687
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:08,160
a triathlete, your parents can't afford the titanium composite bike with the clip on pedals.

688
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:09,600
And so you're never going to win.

689
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:10,600
You know what I mean?

690
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,200
You haven't got an Olympic level coach for you.

691
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:13,200
You know what I mean?

692
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,120
So I think that we've got to be careful with that conversation, because of course, nothing

693
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:18,120
should be handed out.

694
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:19,120
It's the same in the fire service.

695
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,920
I talk about the bar being set high all the time.

696
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,720
You have to earn that.

697
00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:28,360
But does that mean that we don't recognize everyone in the fire academy who passed and

698
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,400
you say good job, you made it through the crucible?

699
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:37,440
So yeah, I mean, I think I think I know you're going with that.

700
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:42,600
I think completion is different, though.

701
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,920
So what I mean by that is like a finishing a marathon is an accomplishment.

702
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:47,920
Right.

703
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:52,580
Because if you think about it, I can't run a marathon.

704
00:38:52,580 --> 00:38:57,200
I don't know the statistics of human beings that can run a marathon or have run a marathon,

705
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,320
will run whatever it is.

706
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:00,320
That's an accomplishment.

707
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,800
A 5K is an accomplishment, a 10K is an accomplishment.

708
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:11,000
The Ironman challenges, those are accomplishments.

709
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,080
Those are accomplishments.

710
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:18,680
But I think when it's treated in the atmosphere of, well, here's something so you don't feel

711
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:19,680
bad.

712
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:20,680
That's different.

713
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:25,560
But if you're a completion medal, you didn't win, but you accomplish something that's very

714
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:26,560
difficult.

715
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:27,960
Not many people do.

716
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:29,520
And I know where you're going with this.

717
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,160
And I completely understand it.

718
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:37,360
And I think I think the balance of how to do that is not an answer I have.

719
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:38,360
I know.

720
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:39,360
I mean, I know what you're saying.

721
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,200
And I totally respect it.

722
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:42,520
And I think you're 100% correct.

723
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,920
And I just, man, I don't know the answer to that.

724
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:51,000
I just know that, you know, I think you just got to meet whatever that is.

725
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,200
I mean, if you want whatever it is bad enough, you're going to do it.

726
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,280
And if you don't, I mean, I don't know.

727
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:57,280
Yeah.

728
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,240
I mean, I think at the higher, like you said, higher age groups, absolutely.

729
00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:06,400
But there's a real danger of taking away the value of play, playing a sport.

730
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,200
Like right now, my son's playing volleyball, pickup games all over town.

731
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:11,200
He's not part.

732
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,840
He's not part of the school volleyball team after doing track for two years and didn't

733
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:16,840
make the cut.

734
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:17,840
It was like beat by one kid.

735
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,520
He almost made the cut and didn't.

736
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,520
So he's out just playing and he's having the time of his life.

737
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,000
He's not expecting any medals for it.

738
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,900
He's playing a sport, playing games.

739
00:40:25,900 --> 00:40:27,200
So that's what I'm talking about.

740
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:33,480
And I'd be honest, he did football, like soccer when he was young and they got like a, you

741
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:38,520
know, a medal or whatever it was, but he never valued that as, oh, we, you know, we won the

742
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:39,520
same as everyone else.

743
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,560
It was just, oh, we showed up and we completed the league.

744
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:46,440
So I think actually a lot of these kids view it as completion anyway.

745
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,960
And I don't really, you know, we talk about this participation trophy.

746
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,920
I haven't really seen that with my own eyes that these kids didn't put any work in and

747
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,280
feel like they won the same as everyone else.

748
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,120
I think there's just, like you said, a completion trophy is what we're seeing.

749
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:04,720
So I think, you know, and as you're talking, I'm thinking about, you can't see this because

750
00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:05,720
of the camera angle.

751
00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:13,880
But so my kid did six seasons because usually due to a year.

752
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,800
So three years of a tee ball and coach pitch baseball.

753
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,380
And as you're talking, I can see all this stuff in front of me.

754
00:41:21,380 --> 00:41:26,520
And so I got his first little hat, his little tee ball, the ball that the coaches will sign

755
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:27,520
and all the teams.

756
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:32,880
And when he sees these things that are in my office and then he, you know, proud dad,

757
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:33,880
I'm taking those.

758
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,360
You're, you can put the medals in your room.

759
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,920
I'm this is dad's like only kid first case a boy.

760
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:40,960
I love baseball.

761
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:42,160
He's doing the same stuff I like.

762
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:43,160
And he loves it.

763
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,760
He loves the fact that I love it with him.

764
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,260
But I think as you're like, you know, it wasn't about what you got.

765
00:41:50,260 --> 00:41:55,280
You see what you're getting, what you have and you're associating it with a memory.

766
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,280
So like, this is the rep.

767
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,100
This is a medal that I got when I did tee ball with the Reds.

768
00:42:00,100 --> 00:42:01,480
You helped coach.

769
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,720
You remember that time that I was able to hit without the tee.

770
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:06,520
It's not about the metal.

771
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:07,720
It's about everything.

772
00:42:07,720 --> 00:42:11,300
It's the association of what that metal brings up.

773
00:42:11,300 --> 00:42:15,560
So I mean, and I just thought about this while you were talking to me, maybe, maybe my perception

774
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,880
wasn't right or maybe my perception was a little bit different or skewed.

775
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:19,880
I don't know.

776
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,200
That's something I'm gonna have to really think about now because I can tell you when

777
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,980
he walks out to go, cause he, my front door is right here.

778
00:42:25,980 --> 00:42:29,880
As he walks out to go to school and he goes to play or just, I mean, you know how seven

779
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:31,240
year olds are, it's kids random shit.

780
00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:34,640
He'll just pop up and be like, Oh, Hey, look, that was when I played for the Royals.

781
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,760
Do you remember that Mr. Dustin was one of the coaches and you work with him?

782
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:38,760
Blah, blah.

783
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:39,760
And he just blah, blah.

784
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:41,040
It just goes on for like 10 minutes.

785
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:42,040
I'm like, I don't remember.

786
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,040
She just, dude, like, I don't remember.

787
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:45,040
Yeah.

788
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,640
You know, not, you don't understand what I'm saying, but like, he'll start remembering

789
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,120
stuff that I haven't even thought about.

790
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,120
Like I didn't, and the minute he talks about, I know exactly what he's talking about.

791
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,120
And I'm like, how the hell do you remember that?

792
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:56,800
He goes, no, no, I just do.

793
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:57,920
That made me remember it.

794
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:02,560
Or there's a couple of team pictures, like, you know, all this stuff, all the, you know,

795
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,880
all this stuff, but the things up there and it's maybe, I don't know, man, maybe that's

796
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:07,880
what it's about.

797
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:08,880
Yeah.

798
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:09,880
No, I think you're right.

799
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:14,200
Cause my son, my son's got, you know, Spartan races that we did, the medals hanging up and

800
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,200
he's 16 now, but he's got pictures of his team when he was that age.

801
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,480
And I bet asked him, did we win?

802
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:21,480
Did you win that one?

803
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:22,480
He's not going to remember that.

804
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:23,480
But he remembers the coach.

805
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:24,480
He remembers who was in his team.

806
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,120
And he remembers that time where he kicked it and went over the goalie's head.

807
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:28,120
And you know what I mean?

808
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:29,640
Like, so I agree with you a hundred percent.

809
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:30,640
That's the value in it.

810
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:31,920
So that's what you go be careful.

811
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:32,920
Yeah.

812
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:34,480
No, I mean, that's, that's, that's a good point.

813
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,020
And I think it's, he's remembering the important things.

814
00:43:37,020 --> 00:43:38,720
It's never the score of the game.

815
00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:43,000
It's always about something associated with it and why he liked it.

816
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,000
So absolutely.

817
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:51,360
So well, shifting to occupation now, when you were in school age, were you dreaming

818
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,840
of the fire service or was it something else?

819
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,760
So when I lived in New Jersey, I lived in, I lived pretty close to a firehouse and I

820
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:04,360
used to watch them move the trucks in the mornings and I could hear them on calls.

821
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,160
When they would circle the block to bring the ladder truck around, like they went right

822
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:08,560
by my house.

823
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,200
So I grew up around it.

824
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:15,360
I think as long as I can remember, that's kind of all I ever really wanted to do.

825
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:16,360
Like that was it.

826
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:17,360
I was hooked.

827
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,040
And you know, there was, I remember seeing shows on TV.

828
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:25,440
I never watched emergency or anything like that, but like the older document, like the

829
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:31,760
nineties documentaries with, not William Shatner, who's, who was the guy that did America's

830
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:32,760
most wanted?

831
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:33,760
Oh my goodness.

832
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:38,320
I know I can see his face now, but I can't remember his name.

833
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,080
You know, one was the one whose son was killed.

834
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,080
Yeah.

835
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,680
Son was killed and that's why Adam.

836
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:44,680
Yeah.

837
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:50,880
I forget his name, but anyway, he did, he did a documentary where he was at rescue one.

838
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:51,880
It was like in the nineties.

839
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:52,880
I remember seeing that.

840
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,320
I think national geographic did one.

841
00:44:55,320 --> 00:45:00,520
There's an old, old, and I didn't find this out until I was older in life, Baltimore city,

842
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,680
one where they were at engine 13.

843
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,840
I think it was engine 13.

844
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:11,760
I don't remember which ladder truck it was, but yeah, I mean, I remember seeing those

845
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,520
when I was younger and I mean, I was hooked like big time hooked.

846
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:20,180
And then back draft came out when I was young and I used to watch it or I'd rewind it and

847
00:45:20,180 --> 00:45:24,880
fast forward it and I would destroy the tape and I would get a new one almost every Christmas.

848
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,920
I mean, I was, I wasn't a firefighter for Halloween or anything like that.

849
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:34,640
I did other random stuff, but I mean, it's something I always wanted to do is, I mean,

850
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,400
I really don't think I've ever wanted to do anything else.

851
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:43,200
Well, I want to walk through obviously volunteering and then career, but before we do, I heard

852
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:50,680
you on the size up with Pip and you touched on, you know, a struggle with alcohol a little

853
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:52,560
bit later in your life.

854
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:57,440
One of the first respond to mental health conversations that we don't hear a lot about

855
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:03,720
and yet through 900 plus interviews, I realized is extremely important is the impact of childhood

856
00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:08,320
struggles, trauma, whatever you want to label it on, you know, how we are once you put the

857
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:14,600
uniform on because life doesn't start at 18, 20, 25, it started when we were born.

858
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:19,320
When you look back now, are there any elements of your early life that you think would have

859
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,760
contributed to struggling once you put the uniform on?

860
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,440
I don't know.

861
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:29,480
I don't think so.

862
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:35,480
I mean, I grew up in a very, very strict household and some other stuff that I really don't want

863
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,120
to get into on here.

864
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,400
And I think it may have affected a lot of it because I think it put me in the mental

865
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:49,800
space of always wanting to please people, which is tough.

866
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:54,080
And I think if you're in that space of where all you want to do is please people, make

867
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,080
them happy, you're never going to be satisfied.

868
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,120
You're never going to feel like you're doing enough.

869
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:07,320
And then that can create a lot of unneeded stress, stress, stress and tension that I

870
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:13,640
think can affect you later on because there will come a point where you could do absolutely

871
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,480
everything right and bad things are still going to happen and it's going to be your

872
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:17,800
fault no matter what you do.

873
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,320
No matter how much you like it, no matter how much you don't want it to be your fault,

874
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:22,880
it's just going to be your fault.

875
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,320
And anyone in your shoes would have still failed.

876
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:32,680
You can replace yourself with Bill and Bill in that scenario will still fail just like

877
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:34,920
you did.

878
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,840
But he may not be worried about pleasing people and may be able in his mind to go, hey man,

879
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:39,920
there's nothing I can do.

880
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:40,920
It's fucked up.

881
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,240
I messed up and all I can do is move on and learn.

882
00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:45,880
And then he trucks on and moves on and learn.

883
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:52,480
Whereas I may be more anxious and fret over it and not be able to take a joke and not

884
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,100
be able to look at it and then move on from it.

885
00:47:55,100 --> 00:47:58,760
Even the smallest dumbest things in the world that absolutely no one remembers 10 minutes

886
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,280
afterwards can still affect you and still stick with you.

887
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:06,080
And you can rack your brain over it all you want.

888
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,400
And it ultimately comes down to how you process it, if that makes sense.

889
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:10,400
No, it does.

890
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,800
And I think this is the part of this conversation.

891
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,880
I mean, I've had people to kind of show the spectrum.

892
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:20,560
I've had people whose struggle would just simply be in the middle child.

893
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:25,040
They had a little boy and then he was the second boy and they wanted a girl and then

894
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:26,280
they had a girl.

895
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:30,880
And he, you know, and I saw it with my own eyes years later, I finally met his parents

896
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:36,920
and I was like, oh yeah, yeah, I see the lack of, you know, any sort of parental involvement,

897
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:42,560
compassion, love, because I saw them at a funeral and he'd lost his wife at that point.

898
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:47,920
And conversely, if you're looking at the trauma spectrum, I had a boy soldier from Sierra

899
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:52,280
Leone whose parents were murdered and he was given the option to be executed or be a boy

900
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:53,280
soldier.

901
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,960
And we think we know which decision we would make and then was addicted to drugs and all

902
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,640
these other things and then was rescued by the Red Cross.

903
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:04,100
And now he's a UNICEF ambassador to help save child soldiers.

904
00:49:04,100 --> 00:49:10,440
So on paper, two very different types of trauma, but equally impactful on those two individuals.

905
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:15,540
So, you know, and that, that wanting to please that wanting attention, you know, seeking

906
00:49:15,540 --> 00:49:19,820
love, whatever it is when we're young, that that's that imprints us.

907
00:49:19,820 --> 00:49:24,260
And if it's not something that we process before we enter the position, then it carries

908
00:49:24,260 --> 00:49:25,260
on through.

909
00:49:25,260 --> 00:49:28,980
And now all of a sudden you make a mistake wearing a badge and it haunts you.

910
00:49:28,980 --> 00:49:33,720
Whereas as you said, other people might go, you know, it, it wasn't your fault, like you

911
00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:36,200
said, but to you, it's everything.

912
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:37,200
Yeah.

913
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:38,200
Yeah.

914
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:43,640
And I think a lot of that can attack your confidence.

915
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:49,640
And I think when your confidence is really bruised or you don't have, or not confidence,

916
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:54,640
if you're insecure, like you have a lot of insecurities for whatever reason, I mean,

917
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,840
it could be anything you could have insecurities for.

918
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:02,480
But if you have insecurities, I do think that can play a lot into it as well.

919
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:07,320
And I think a lot of that does come from the early life stuff, or stuff you learn when

920
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:12,480
you're younger, before you become, you know, a firefighter or officer or whatever it is.

921
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:16,000
And you know, me personally, I left my house when I was a teenager.

922
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:23,000
So being thrust into the world as an emancipated minor makes a lot of things very tough.

923
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:24,000
Like I'm on my own.

924
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,000
I have to work.

925
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,280
I have to have my own money.

926
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,320
I have to be able to make my own ends meet.

927
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:30,320
I have to get to school.

928
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,920
I have to do my own homework because there's no one, no one gives a shit if I do it or

929
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:34,920
not.

930
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:35,920
Like you don't do it, don't do it, whatever.

931
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,120
You're going to fail school and you're going to be on these.

932
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:40,280
It's only your fault.

933
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:46,000
You know, so going, going, excuse me, going to having, you know, a childhood life and

934
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,000
all that stuff.

935
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:48,520
Then you leave for again, for circumstance.

936
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:53,000
I'm not going to get into the circumstances, but the circumstances that I was dealt, you

937
00:50:53,000 --> 00:51:00,280
know, the better option is to not be at home, but there is no one to support you now.

938
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:03,800
It is only you and it sucks.

939
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:05,760
It's not fun in any way.

940
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,380
It's very lonely and not, not a lot of fun at all.

941
00:51:08,380 --> 00:51:10,900
So that all plays into a lot of stuff.

942
00:51:10,900 --> 00:51:16,440
When I got older, as far as, you know, then on my own, this, you know, I don't want to

943
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:17,440
have to go through that again.

944
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:18,600
I don't like it when people leave.

945
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:22,160
I don't like it when, you know, I feel insecure.

946
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:26,880
And the insecurity thing is incredibly high in my life as far as, not so much now as it

947
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:33,680
was a few years ago, but you know, it, it's definitely tough.

948
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,620
And for me to say that, you know, once my life took a different turn and went into the

949
00:51:37,620 --> 00:51:43,500
correct direction and here I am now, if, you know, I would never lie to somebody and tell

950
00:51:43,500 --> 00:51:45,920
them that I'm completely over that.

951
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:46,920
That's a, that's a bull faced lie.

952
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,960
I mean, there's stuff that I still find myself having to stop and remind myself, you know,

953
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:52,720
Hey, you don't have to worry about that anymore.

954
00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:53,720
Or you get that.

955
00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:58,840
I don't know how to explain this, but like there's an emotion and a feeling you get when

956
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,240
something comes up that reminds you of those traumatic times.

957
00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:07,680
Like, like it's like a, like a flutter in your chest and almost like a bad taste in

958
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:08,680
your mouth.

959
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,880
I don't know how to explain it, but like it hits you like, boom, it'll, I mean, it'll

960
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:13,880
kick you right in the chest.

961
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:15,400
And you're like, Holy shit.

962
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:16,560
This reminds me of that.

963
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,600
I remember with that smells or another one.

964
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:24,480
Like if I smell something from that period, I don't know how I don't, does that make sense?

965
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:25,480
What I'm trying to say?

966
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:26,480
You're making perfect sense.

967
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:27,480
I promise you.

968
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:31,480
There's a couple of things that I stay away from them, but I know there's something I

969
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:38,080
can, and if somebody has it in their house or I'm near it and I get that smell, I immediately,

970
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,160
my, my, the hair will stand up on my neck.

971
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,200
I'll get, I'll get a little sweaty.

972
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:44,200
No big deal.

973
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:46,560
I can take a breath and I can move on.

974
00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:52,080
But afterwards, after that call or after that situation or after that, wherever environment

975
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,320
I am, I'm going to be thinking about it for the next day or two.

976
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,880
I mean, I'm not going to lie to you and tell you I don't.

977
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,400
I mean, I have a lot more things to be happy and thankful for now than I ever did in my

978
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:07,440
entire life, which is made, makes it easier to bring myself back down off of that.

979
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,960
But it's, it's a very, I'm glad you brought this up.

980
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:18,840
It's a very unique, it's a very unique thing to feel and to be able to move to, to get

981
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:20,440
back into control.

982
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:21,440
If that makes sense.

983
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:22,440
It does.

984
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:26,360
I mean, well, firstly, I mean, there's, there's so much association, you know, and then it

985
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:31,120
sounds like it's a, you know, an adrenal response and anxiety response for a moment.

986
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,400
And what's interesting actually is, is for that particular, if it's, if it's an acute

987
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:38,600
event, not diet, not delving, but if it is acute event, that's the kind of thing that

988
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:43,080
EMDR supposedly does well for, which is a, you know, you literally just holding two paddles

989
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:47,720
and vibrating while you're talking through it to a counselor or they're shining a light

990
00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:48,720
from eye to eye.

991
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:53,440
And it takes that visceral memory that's still trapped in the front of the brain to

992
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,840
be very kind of, you know, white belt description.

993
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,480
And it allows it to finally become a longterm memory.

994
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:07,360
But with the imposter syndrome, the insecurity, I think probably what makes it worse is, because

995
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:10,640
I was thinking, I think you just touched on this with one of the interviews I listened

996
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:17,880
to before this job, it's healthy to be insecure, to remove everything else from your personal

997
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:19,800
life out for a second.

998
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:24,840
If you're not insecure about a profession that, as I mentioned, involves everything

999
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:28,920
that doesn't involve police work, you know, from, from the EMS to the fire, to the rope

1000
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:32,320
rescue, to the trench, so that you name it.

1001
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,300
I think, I think there's, there's an element of it that's actually healthy.

1002
00:54:35,300 --> 00:54:40,920
So that can obviously kind of cross pollinate and just amplify an insecurity that's unhealthy.

1003
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:46,720
But I never felt comfortable in the fire service 14 years, because I've, there's so many things

1004
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:47,720
I haven't seen.

1005
00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:48,720
I've been on for 14 years.

1006
00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:51,840
It was worse when I had 10 years on or five years on.

1007
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:58,320
So there is a healthy element that that humility of, I don't know very much because, you know,

1008
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:02,880
I just went to a rope rescue competition that my friend ran that world.

1009
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:04,520
I mean, blew my mind.

1010
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:09,120
Like I did the two classes, the ops and the tech, but I don't remember shit.

1011
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:13,000
I couldn't string two lines from two buildings and send a gurney over.

1012
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:14,460
There's no way.

1013
00:55:14,460 --> 00:55:17,000
So I think that's the other thing that was interesting.

1014
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:21,200
As you've got insecurities within our personality based on what happened to us when we were

1015
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,400
young and our journey up to here.

1016
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:28,440
But then you couple it with a healthy feeling of humility, which is really an insecurity

1017
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:29,620
as well.

1018
00:55:29,620 --> 00:55:33,000
And those two together are actually quite toxic, if that makes sense.

1019
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:34,240
Yeah, it does.

1020
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:39,880
And I think the you're a little insecurity can go a long way because I think it keeps

1021
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:41,760
you honest.

1022
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:48,840
And by that, I mean, it keeps you honest as far as getting out of your comfort zone.

1023
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,480
And when people talk about staying in your comfort zone, I think that's kind of what

1024
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:53,480
they're getting at.

1025
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:58,720
You know, your, your comfort zone, you feel comfortable, you know, you never really tested.

1026
00:55:58,720 --> 00:56:00,920
I mean, you may get tested, but you may not.

1027
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:09,160
But I think some of the some of the calls that I think were where I got, I don't see

1028
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:10,160
I got the most praise.

1029
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:13,640
I don't know how to say this, but they were like, you know, there's, there's a couple,

1030
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:20,480
there's a fire one time where it was, it got real hairy real fast.

1031
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:25,000
And I remember thinking to myself, you know, I was a little scared, but I was like, you

1032
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:26,920
know what, I know I need my instinct.

1033
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:28,720
Like I just had that knack in the back of my head.

1034
00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:30,440
You need to do A, B and C.

1035
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,320
And I remember being a little scared.

1036
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:36,700
And I remember, you know, I feel like I felt like this plenty of times.

1037
00:56:36,700 --> 00:56:38,480
I think I need to do A, B and C. I'm going to do it.

1038
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:39,680
I fucking do it.

1039
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:43,840
And I boom, boom, boom, boom, everything went according to plan.

1040
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:49,800
And one of the people that I, that I was working with said, you know, thank God it was us.

1041
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:53,200
And thank God we know what we're doing because that could have gone really bad.

1042
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:57,240
And some of the, you know, these people do this, this and this, I'm really glad that

1043
00:56:57,240 --> 00:57:02,680
we've talked about this and trained on this and that we were there together because it

1044
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:03,680
could have been a lot worse.

1045
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,360
It could have been pretty bad.

1046
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:11,160
And I think what I'm getting at that with that is, you know, getting challenged and

1047
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:18,200
tested and being uncomfortable like that will show your true potential because it's up there.

1048
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:19,600
I mean, if you have it, it's up there.

1049
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:20,920
I really think that.

1050
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:25,360
And I think, and that's why, you know, obviously you're always going to default to your training

1051
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:31,520
and that, you know, you get that, you know, human performance side of it that I don't

1052
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:35,000
know a ton about, but I've been getting into it more and more recently in the last couple

1053
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:36,000
of years.

1054
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:41,640
You know, the whole joke of, you know, if you've ever seen the office where he's, you

1055
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:46,120
know, Dwight, when they're doing the smoke, smoke, uh, or the, they had the fire in the

1056
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:51,800
office, the, um, emergency response that, you know, it's a joke, obviously, but he's

1057
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,680
like, you know, let the surge of fear and adrenaline sharpen your decision making.

1058
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:57,920
That's funny to laugh at, but that's not how that works.

1059
00:57:57,920 --> 00:57:58,920
Right.

1060
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,440
You're obviously, you know, you get into the, I think it's called a condition black.

1061
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:07,120
Your heart rate's over 170 and you get that immediate flight of fight and your brain is

1062
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:08,120
going to turn off.

1063
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:09,120
It's going to turn to liquid.

1064
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,320
It's going to run out your ears and all you have to rely on is your training and the people

1065
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:12,760
with you.

1066
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,800
So that does, that does happen.

1067
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:19,280
And I think when you allow yourself and you may be able to agree with me on this and maybe

1068
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,360
some of the people out there might know what I'm talking about.

1069
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:26,560
Some of the hardest decisions and the rapid decisions I feel like I've been a part of

1070
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:35,160
that I've, that I've done has been in a moment where I'm fighting my brain to take back over.

1071
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:37,000
So everything's doing this.

1072
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:42,040
Like I get that television starting, everything starts getting quiet, like real quiet.

1073
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:43,400
Like I don't hear anything in the rate.

1074
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:47,440
I don't hear the radio anymore, even though I know I can, you know, 30 seconds before

1075
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:51,320
I could hear the radio, just, you know, no one, people just don't shut up on that thing.

1076
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:57,280
Like it's like continuously going, you know, the, the, the humming of the engine with thottling

1077
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:02,080
up like that's a constant loud noise and it all goes away and everything gets super duper

1078
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,840
quiet and you're only right in front of your hands, only right in front of your face.

1079
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:11,640
But being able to slow down and opening up and re what I'm getting at is regaining control

1080
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:12,720
is very difficult.

1081
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:17,760
And I feel like I've now I have not been as tested as I have when I'm in the situation

1082
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,320
where I'm fighting myself for control.

1083
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:25,680
And then once you, and hopefully you're still following on this cause I'm a little off track,

1084
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:33,000
but no, we are once you regain control is like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

1085
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:37,360
And I think that's when you kick back over into your training, not conscious thought,

1086
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:38,360
if that makes sense.

1087
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:39,800
You like, you know what I mean?

1088
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:43,600
Like there's shit that I've said that has come out of my mouth, blah, blah, blah, you

1089
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:44,600
know, whatever, whatever.

1090
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:48,560
All right, we do it, knock it out, blah, blah, you know, and I get the whole, you know,

1091
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:49,560
Hey man, that was, that was a good call.

1092
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:50,560
Nice job.

1093
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:51,560
Or, Hey, you walked the dog on that.

1094
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:52,560
Nice job.

1095
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:55,080
And in my mind, I'm like, I don't know where that came from.

1096
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:56,080
Like

1097
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:02,480
There was a couple of times throughout my career where like I said, and did stuff in

1098
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:03,860
the moment I said, and did them.

1099
01:00:03,860 --> 01:00:06,840
And I'm like thinking to myself like, Oh man, hope that was right.

1100
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:08,560
But in the end people are like, Hey man, that was a great job.

1101
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:09,840
You know, nice job with this.

1102
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:13,640
I'm sitting there thinking to myself like, yeah, you know, Hey, yeah, that was my decision.

1103
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:14,640
Yep.

1104
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:15,640
And I'm in my mind.

1105
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:16,640
I'm like, what the fuck is that coming from?

1106
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:25,640
Like, you know, and rapid decision-making in that environment is not easy.

1107
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:33,040
But again, like I said, I think that's where it's important when you have that, what we

1108
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:35,240
were talking about earlier.

1109
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:37,560
I also have people I can rely on, right?

1110
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:44,400
So now I'm, you know, as all these perspectives are for the most part as an officer and a

1111
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,400
lot of some of it is a firefighter as well.

1112
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:53,200
But like all those environments, it's always been subconsciously, I know, and this isn't

1113
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:54,200
their name.

1114
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:55,200
This is just for ease of conversation.

1115
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:56,200
Rick, Bill and Dave are sharp.

1116
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,400
I don't even have to look for them.

1117
01:00:58,400 --> 01:00:59,480
They're doing what they're supposed to do.

1118
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:00,640
I know what they're going to do.

1119
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:02,440
We've been working together for six years.

1120
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:04,480
Like we don't even have to talk.

1121
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:06,680
Like I know where they're going to be.

1122
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:10,640
And you know, the second I'm like, I need to go find where Rick is.

1123
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:11,640
Hey LT, where you at?

1124
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:12,640
I am right here.

1125
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:13,640
All right, cool.

1126
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:14,640
And then like, it's a quick two second.

1127
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:15,640
I know where everybody is.

1128
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:16,640
They're all checking in.

1129
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:17,640
We're talking.

1130
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:18,640
We're not touching each other.

1131
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:19,640
We're not within arm's reach.

1132
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:24,080
You know, we're not holding each other's hands, but we know where everyone is at all at the

1133
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:25,080
same time.

1134
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:30,760
So I think that alleviates that stress and all that to where you're able to open your

1135
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:37,280
brain up, make the decision, but still makes you confident enough to get out of your comfort

1136
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:38,280
zone.

1137
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:39,280
I'm uncomfortable right now, but it's okay.

1138
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:43,200
Cause I can, I know I can be uncomfortable because I know if I need to rely or I need

1139
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:47,880
help or I need a decision or I need to make a decision.

1140
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:52,120
I've got all these sharp guys around me that are, you know, we're going to get in.

1141
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:55,640
We're going to get through this together, especially in the team, the team aspect as

1142
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,360
the, um, on the fire ground.

1143
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:02,800
Sure. It also will give you the confidence to be able to make the decisions.

1144
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:04,800
Cause it firegrounds dictatorship.

1145
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:05,880
It's not a democracy.

1146
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,920
You can take input, but as officer, you have to make a decision.

1147
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:09,920
How are you going to make that decision?

1148
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:13,720
If you don't have any experience fighting fires and being a firefighter for a period

1149
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,560
of time, you won't, it doesn't work that way.

1150
01:02:16,560 --> 01:02:18,400
It won't work that way.

1151
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:19,400
Right.

1152
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:24,820
But being able to make those decisions and execute relies heavily on your experience

1153
01:02:24,820 --> 01:02:28,680
as a firefighter and time in the field, not sitting behind a desk, not in an office, not

1154
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:31,560
working from home all the time because you have that luxury.

1155
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:36,840
It comes from running calls, screwing up and then feeling that uncomfortable feeling, making

1156
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:39,760
that decision that you know, instinctually needs to be made.

1157
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,280
You would instinctually make knowing you need to make it.

1158
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:46,480
You make it and it works and vice versa.

1159
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:50,680
And I've learned a lot more from this than I think being successful when you screw it

1160
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,260
up and it sucks.

1161
01:02:53,260 --> 01:03:00,680
You don't want to be that guy like the, the focus of the fire ground was you screwing

1162
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:07,160
up your assignment and everybody watches you get absolutely wrecked and throttled by the

1163
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:08,860
chief.

1164
01:03:08,860 --> 01:03:14,880
That's what I think I've learned the most, especially as a human being, as a man and

1165
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,560
as an officer and a firefighter too.

1166
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:22,800
So it's all big balance and all comes in being able to be humble and be able to be, be able

1167
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:23,800
to get out of your comfort zone.

1168
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:32,000
I know I got it off a long, big tangent on that, but I feel like, you know, all that

1169
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:36,880
was incredibly relevant and important for kind of what you asked because it's the, it's

1170
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:41,680
the big broad stroke of the brush of how you're going to react in those situations, not just

1171
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:43,640
as an officer, but as a firefighter as well.

1172
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:44,640
I think.

1173
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:46,400
Yeah, no, I agree completely.

1174
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:48,240
And that phrase, I think the SEALs use it a lot.

1175
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:50,260
You know, you don't rise to the level of expectation.

1176
01:03:50,260 --> 01:03:55,000
You fall to your level of training and I think this is why it's so important to have not

1177
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,760
just training, but realism in training, you know, and a lot of the box checking that I've

1178
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:04,120
seen in, in the bad departments I've worked for, you're not creating any discomfort, you're

1179
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:09,400
not creating any environment to encourage mistakes, to kind of see where you're at limits

1180
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:14,620
are and get scared and get tired and you know, all these other things on a, on a drill ground

1181
01:04:14,620 --> 01:04:19,800
so that the next time you have a fire and let's say you are uncomfortable and hot, well,

1182
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:23,600
the last time you were scared, uncomfortable heart was in training three weeks ago or in

1183
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:28,640
your CrossFit gym last week or whatever it was, you've been uncomfortable and that training

1184
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:29,680
has been frequent.

1185
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:33,120
So when you fall back, the level is still high.

1186
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:38,360
I think one of the, one of the great analogies, I had a baseball player, Logan Gelbrick on

1187
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:42,880
the show and he was talking about a flow state moment in his career, but the way he broke

1188
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:47,000
down how you get to a flow state and people argue, you know, is a flow state really a

1189
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:48,000
real thing?

1190
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:52,160
And he's experienced it as a martial artist, so whatever you call that thing, you have

1191
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:57,920
to have a high level of stress, well, obviously in a fire, that's, you know, check that box.

1192
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:03,120
You have to have, you know, 10,000 hours of practice or repetitions or whatever, you know,

1193
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:07,840
whatever your version of lots of practice, but then you have to have a calm mind and

1194
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:12,160
that's the other big thing and the whole mental health conversation, mental health and performance

1195
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:13,840
go hand in hand.

1196
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:18,320
So, you know, if you have, have got the ability, just like you said, and everything's closing

1197
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:22,840
down and you have the ability to take a moment and take a few breaths and widen that lens

1198
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:23,920
again.

1199
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:27,840
Now you've got that flow state opportunity and that's when you pull these things out

1200
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:31,960
of nowhere and I've had it on, in a medical course, I've had it on, like I said, in a

1201
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:36,640
taekwondo tournament and you look around and go, I don't know how my foot got to his face,

1202
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:37,640
but it did.

1203
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:38,640
That was cool.

1204
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:39,640
Wow.

1205
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:40,640
That worked out great.

1206
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:41,640
Yeah.

1207
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:42,640
And even in this interview, like I'll have conversations.

1208
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:47,000
I'll have conversations about where that came from, but the more people I speak to, the

1209
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:49,880
more ingredients of a cake go into my head.

1210
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:51,160
And then someone says, make me a sponge.

1211
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:52,560
And all of a sudden the sponge comes out.

1212
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:56,160
You know, well, shit, I don't know how that happened, but it's the same concept.

1213
01:05:56,160 --> 01:06:02,840
So I agree a hundred percent being uncomfortable, creating realism on the training ground.

1214
01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:07,080
So you're closer to what is going to happen out in the real world.

1215
01:06:07,080 --> 01:06:09,580
And then repetition, you've got to have those reps.

1216
01:06:09,580 --> 01:06:14,040
And if it's with that same crew, that's where that cohesion and trust happens as well.

1217
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:15,040
Yeah.

1218
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:18,960
And, you know, and you mean you could, you might even be able to elaborate on this as

1219
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:19,960
well.

1220
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:23,260
I think some of the bigger ones are the ones that have the least amount of stress.

1221
01:06:23,260 --> 01:06:27,520
So I'll give you a little scenario from a couple of days ago.

1222
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:34,520
And so embarrassing, but we did a, we did a drill and one of the things they talked

1223
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:39,720
to, it was, it was about gas emergencies and the, the person leading the drill put a picture

1224
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:42,640
up of a house and it was a split level, right?

1225
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:47,400
And even it was a realtor picture, like where they explain what a house is and it says really

1226
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:48,400
big across the top.

1227
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:50,520
What is a split level?

1228
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:54,480
And they're like, you know, Hey, you know, we're talking about gas emergencies today.

1229
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:55,480
Real quick.

1230
01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:57,480
Mike to me, I'm sitting in front of the class.

1231
01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:58,480
There's like 20 people.

1232
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:00,920
They're guys I see every fourth day.

1233
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:01,920
I see them all the time.

1234
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:04,160
My battalion chiefs there, my crews there.

1235
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:08,920
Guys I I'm not uncomfortable in front of, because I work, I've worked around for seven

1236
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:09,920
years now.

1237
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:13,680
And as long as I've been in the firehouse on that, he's like, still a real quick size

1238
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:14,920
up and you know, what would you do?

1239
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:19,400
I was like, Oh, no, alpha side split forest style house, attached garage.

1240
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:22,760
I look for gas, walk around, blah, blah, blah.

1241
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:24,040
Well it's not a split for it.

1242
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:25,040
It's a split level.

1243
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,440
I don't know why I said split for it.

1244
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:31,160
And I don't remember saying split for it at all.

1245
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:35,760
No one in the room said a word at all.

1246
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:37,200
So we go through the entire drill.

1247
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:42,340
I think besides making the mistake of the building construction, you know, everything

1248
01:07:42,340 --> 01:07:44,800
I said I think was correct.

1249
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:48,300
We elaborated on a lot of the things that I said, move forward with it, with the training

1250
01:07:48,300 --> 01:07:51,880
and we were there for probably two hours when that was about it.

1251
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:54,520
So the guy instructing I'm very good friends with, I used to work for him when I was a

1252
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:55,520
firefighter.

1253
01:07:55,520 --> 01:08:00,480
He's a captain and he shot me a text and he goes split for a split level.

1254
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:04,600
And I texted him and I'm like, what are you talking about?

1255
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:07,280
He goes, the house that I showed you, is that a split for a split level?

1256
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:08,280
I said, I was split level.

1257
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:09,280
What do you talk like?

1258
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:10,280
What?

1259
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:11,280
What?

1260
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:15,560
So then he called me and I'm like, I didn't fucking say that.

1261
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:16,920
He goes, yeah, you did.

1262
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:21,360
He goes, you, it was, it was in rate in writing and you called it a split for you and it was

1263
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:22,360
a split level.

1264
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:26,840
And I'm like, and then I felt that rush.

1265
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:27,840
Like I felt embarrassed.

1266
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:30,560
I felt like a complete idiot.

1267
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:34,440
I've never, I haven't felt that I was so embarrassed, dude.

1268
01:08:34,440 --> 01:08:36,960
Like I felt my face turn red and he's laughing at me.

1269
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:37,960
He's like, who gives a shit?

1270
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:38,960
He goes, it is what it is.

1271
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:41,200
He's like, I'm just calling to mess with you about it.

1272
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:46,400
He goes, but I also forwarded you a whole PowerPoint and training on building construction

1273
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:51,920
and you know, the department that I worked for has actually in the general, in our fire

1274
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:56,840
ground, general orders sites that and shows you the difference in a drawing.

1275
01:08:56,840 --> 01:09:03,320
So you don't screw it up because as a department, they may, they put that in our general orders

1276
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:07,280
to help people not make that mistake.

1277
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:12,840
And it specifically sites what level is what division and use you, you know, I mean, I'm

1278
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:16,940
sure you understand what I'm saying with that and how we identify what's the first floor

1279
01:09:16,940 --> 01:09:20,420
or what's the division one, two and basement, sub-basement, all that, because those can

1280
01:09:20,420 --> 01:09:22,840
get wonky with those types, those styles of construction.

1281
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:26,800
So anyway, so of course he sends me all that in our department's attachment for split for

1282
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:28,520
origin split levels.

1283
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:32,440
And it's, you know, I'm like, I didn't fucking say that.

1284
01:09:32,440 --> 01:09:36,240
So I go back to my shift and I'm like, I said, Hey, we did this in the drill.

1285
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:38,160
Did I say split for the like?

1286
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:39,160
Yeah.

1287
01:09:39,160 --> 01:09:41,920
I'm like, okay.

1288
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:44,520
And then I texted one, you know, I texted one of the other officers that I'm, that I'm

1289
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:47,520
friends with and I'm like, Hey man, did I, he's like, yeah.

1290
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:50,880
He's like, he's like, I figured you just screwed it up and then realized you're an idiot.

1291
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:51,880
And that was kind of it.

1292
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:53,520
He's like, I don't think, I don't think twice of it.

1293
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:57,680
We all kind of giggled and you didn't seem to laugh or even hear anybody kind of chuckle

1294
01:09:57,680 --> 01:09:58,680
a little bit.

1295
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:00,600
And we just thought you guys are screwing around.

1296
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:06,680
I'm like, like, so, I mean the whole world kind of, it didn't crash, but like in that

1297
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:11,240
moment I'm like, like, you know, it was, and then it was a totally unexpected situation

1298
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:13,040
where like, I felt my adrenaline start running.

1299
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:17,560
Like, you know, I just, and this kind of touches on what we talked about earlier.

1300
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:19,240
Like, well, am I going to be an idiot now?

1301
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:21,280
Is everybody going to laugh at me and think I don't know what I'm doing?

1302
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:22,280
Do they think I'm an idiot?

1303
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:23,560
Do I think I'm competent?

1304
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:25,080
Did I just ruin my reputation?

1305
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:26,160
Do I have a repute?

1306
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:32,400
Like it's just wild how the things that you least expect can just sucker punch you and

1307
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:36,560
just drop you like a bag, like drop you like a sack of potatoes.

1308
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:38,560
So it's looking back on it now.

1309
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:39,560
It's funny.

1310
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:45,120
You know, this is, it's been two weeks now, but like, you know, people are slowly getting

1311
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:50,640
their licks and one person texted me and I wrote an email to him and I'm like, I say,

1312
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:52,440
man, I was like, I screwed that email up.

1313
01:10:52,440 --> 01:10:53,440
It's supposed to say X, Y, and Z.

1314
01:10:53,440 --> 01:10:55,840
He goes, oh yeah, just like it was supposed to be a split level and I split for her.

1315
01:10:55,840 --> 01:11:00,280
I'm like, that was good.

1316
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:03,480
But even then the little joke, it was funny.

1317
01:11:03,480 --> 01:11:06,880
But in my mind, I started, like, I could feel myself getting a little amped up.

1318
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,520
I'm like, no, stop it.

1319
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:10,520
It was a joke.

1320
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:14,160
And then that person on their own, I didn't fist or whatever.

1321
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:16,880
They said, well, you know, at least you know what it is and what you're doing when it's

1322
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:17,880
important.

1323
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:22,320
He goes, I'd rather you look like an idiot on a drill and then nail it on a call when

1324
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:23,320
it counts.

1325
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:25,840
I'm like, well, you're not an easy person to impress.

1326
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:26,840
I'll take that.

1327
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:28,880
So there we go.

1328
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:29,880
Yeah.

1329
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:33,400
Well, I want to get to your journey into the fire service.

1330
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:37,720
Now I was looking at LinkedIn, so I want to make sure I've got this correct.

1331
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:39,160
Did you join the volunteer?

1332
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:42,280
LinkedIn's all screwed up.

1333
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:43,520
I don't know how to edit it that great.

1334
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,720
I'm not that great on LinkedIn, but it's kind of screwed up.

1335
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:48,040
I'm sorry, go ahead.

1336
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:49,040
No, no, you're fine.

1337
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:54,400
So if if what I read was correct, it appeared that you joined the volunteer fire service

1338
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:55,880
a month before 9-11.

1339
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:56,880
Is that correct?

1340
01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:58,840
Yeah, it was like right around August.

1341
01:11:58,840 --> 01:11:59,840
Yeah.

1342
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:00,840
OK.

1343
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:05,280
So walk me through your journey into the volunteer fire service and through a volunteer's eyes.

1344
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:07,800
What was your 9-11 experience?

1345
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:13,080
So I was actually going to try and buy a car and that's how I found the fire.

1346
01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:17,080
In the Huntington volunteer fire department, there used to be a dealership right at Cox

1347
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:19,080
Road and Ralph Fort.

1348
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:21,080
Well, it was on the Old Town Road.

1349
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:23,080
So anyway, the same intersection, just two different streets.

1350
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:29,000
But anyway, there was a car dealership there and I bought a S10 for $400.

1351
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:31,040
I mean, I was I just turned 16.

1352
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:34,680
I was about to turn 16 or I just turned 16 and I was going to go buy it.

1353
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:40,040
I used from saving up cutting grass for two or three summers.

1354
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:41,480
I don't remember how long it was.

1355
01:12:41,480 --> 01:12:47,040
But anyway, so to go to the car shop, you had to go on the side road, which is Old Town

1356
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:49,800
Road and I passed the Huntington volunteer fire department.

1357
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:52,800
And I remember all through high school, always wanted when I was younger, I wanted to be

1358
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:53,800
in the fire department.

1359
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:54,800
All this.

1360
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:58,360
And I remember guys that I went to high school with were like volunteer fire department shirts

1361
01:12:58,360 --> 01:12:59,360
and it never really clicked.

1362
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:01,800
And then all of a sudden it kind of clicked.

1363
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:03,960
And they're like, yeah, we just volunteer or whatever.

1364
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:05,120
And no big deal.

1365
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:09,200
And I was like, all right, well, I wonder if this is one of those places.

1366
01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:13,240
Because I didn't really I mean, I under I obviously I know what volunteer fire department

1367
01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:16,280
means, but like I didn't know the difference between career.

1368
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:17,280
I didn't know any of that stuff.

1369
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:18,800
I just thought everybody was paid.

1370
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:21,360
Like, I mean, that's honestly what I thought.

1371
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:25,200
And I thought maybe they just had guys that did it on the side or something.

1372
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:31,100
So I walked in, met a couple of guys, you know, got an application joined.

1373
01:13:31,100 --> 01:13:35,520
I didn't realize how impactful those people would be.

1374
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:40,400
I didn't realize the ripple effects and, you know, there's people that I'm still very

1375
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:47,120
good friends with to this day, 23 years later and how impactful and meaningful a couple

1376
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:53,280
individuals will be in my entire life that I professionally as a human being, as a man,

1377
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:58,240
I would not be anywhere I am today without them or be joining that department.

1378
01:13:58,240 --> 01:13:59,240
I joined.

1379
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:07,800
Like, yeah, you said before 9-11 and the fire department side of me didn't really have a

1380
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:11,560
big impact because I didn't really know anything yet.

1381
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:16,800
I mean, obviously, I understood the impact of, you know, everyone that was killed.

1382
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:25,000
And I feel like and I was a sophomore in high school, sophomore in high school when 9-11

1383
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:26,000
happened.

1384
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:34,520
I had the attachment of feeling like the country was under attack more so than people died.

1385
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:36,400
I mean, obviously, people died.

1386
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:39,800
So I had that human interaction with it.

1387
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:44,440
But you know, as far as the fire service, I feel like I wasn't really part of it to

1388
01:14:44,440 --> 01:14:46,640
understand it quite yet.

1389
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:54,840
I think that happened after the one year anniversary where I was like, oh, 343 firemen died and

1390
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:57,800
how horrific that was and the manner in which they got killed.

1391
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:01,080
Like the idea of like not knowing anything about the fire department, not knowing anything

1392
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:03,240
about going into fires yet.

1393
01:15:03,240 --> 01:15:07,840
Looking back on it of, you know, a year later, I had EMT, I had my little firefighter one

1394
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:08,840
car.

1395
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:15,440
I went to an actual house fire and then I was able to, I guess, have the ability to

1396
01:15:15,440 --> 01:15:21,640
relate not being not in the manner in which they died, but like how real it is that something

1397
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:26,520
could collapse on me and kill me at just a regular house fire.

1398
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:29,400
You know, because you learn about firefighter deaths and all that stuff.

1399
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:33,520
Like you learn that and you just, what I volunteered at, people talked about that.

1400
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:37,360
Like these are the things you have to do because you can get burned or killed and all that.

1401
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:43,040
And I think after that one year anniversary, I was able to, I'm trying to figure it relate

1402
01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:44,040
to it.

1403
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:45,040
I don't know.

1404
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:47,680
I don't know how, I don't know if that makes sense, but like relating to the fact that

1405
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:53,040
I'm a firefighter now, even though I'm volunteer and that guy was a firefighter in New York

1406
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:56,240
and he died because he was doing his job as a firefighter.

1407
01:15:56,240 --> 01:16:00,160
So it was to me, the connection, there was a little bit of a connection at that one year

1408
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:03,800
part more so than when it happened.

1409
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:09,200
And I think, you know, again, like I said, I don't think I had as much connection as

1410
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:10,440
other people may have.

1411
01:16:10,440 --> 01:16:15,440
I was new, but as time went on, every time it comes up, it, you know, it definitely made

1412
01:16:15,440 --> 01:16:21,720
me think, but you know, yeah.

1413
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:25,600
When you talk about being emancipated when you were young and then you just spoke about

1414
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:32,120
two individuals and how impactful they were on your life, I think mentorship is a really

1415
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:34,560
important conversation, especially now.

1416
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:38,940
I mean, we have, you know, an environment of division at the moment, an environment

1417
01:16:38,940 --> 01:16:46,200
of kind of finger pointing and waiting for certainly the last eight years, someone to

1418
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:50,880
be elected who is a massive disappointment out of 330 million people.

1419
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:56,480
But the answer is obviously each one of us steps up and then is a leader in our own home

1420
01:16:56,480 --> 01:16:59,880
and then leader in our community and or firehouse.

1421
01:16:59,880 --> 01:17:06,160
And the value of being a mentor, whether it's a sports coach or a history teacher or one

1422
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:11,240
of the members of the volunteer fire department that you work for is such a powerful perspective.

1423
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:16,760
And to me really is the kind of real nucleus of leadership, someone else, you know, making

1424
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:18,460
you a better person.

1425
01:17:18,460 --> 01:17:21,880
So talk to me about these men, talk to me about where you were.

1426
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:25,720
And I'm making a massive assumption now, if there was an absence of some sort of, you

1427
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:31,200
know, father figure or male role model at that point, how important was it meeting those

1428
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:33,600
and what trajectory did they send you on?

1429
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:34,600
It was life changing.

1430
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:38,760
I don't think I've been anywhere I am in my life with anything from being a parent to

1431
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:44,920
being any of it would have happened without mentorship along the way.

1432
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:50,120
You know, one of the people I really so we work together now and I'm trying to leave

1433
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:52,280
my department totally out of this.

1434
01:17:52,280 --> 01:17:56,480
You know, if he happens to come across this, he will know who he is.

1435
01:17:56,480 --> 01:17:59,080
And you know, I've told him this several times.

1436
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:02,520
I his friendship and mentorship saved my life.

1437
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:06,120
And I'm not going to get too much into it, but I'll leave it at that.

1438
01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:07,120
Right.

1439
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:08,120
You know, I was a teenager.

1440
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:11,240
He was obviously older.

1441
01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:13,200
He was a sheriff in Calvert County at that time.

1442
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:15,360
So he should probably know who I'm talking about now.

1443
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:17,720
Probably everybody else that knows him well as well.

1444
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:23,440
But for some reason, I was a I was a punk kid and he took a liking to me and he was

1445
01:18:23,440 --> 01:18:24,840
very hard on me.

1446
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:26,760
And he really helped me with a lot of things.

1447
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:32,400
And I left my house when I was a teenager and I ended up after a period of time, sneaking

1448
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:34,880
into the firehouse night when I'm not supposed to be there because you're supposed to be

1449
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:36,680
18 to live there and sleep there.

1450
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:40,400
And during the week on the weekends, no big deal as long as your parents don't care or

1451
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:41,800
you're emancipated.

1452
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:46,200
And then I think on the weekends you can live, you can sleep there, but you're not allowed

1453
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:50,080
to be there during the week at all if you're in high school.

1454
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:54,440
And you know, somebody may have accidentally left them left me their key card.

1455
01:18:54,440 --> 01:18:56,620
So it's unrestricted.

1456
01:18:56,620 --> 01:19:00,000
And I would all kidding aside, I go in there, you know, he'd help me out with a few other

1457
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:01,000
different things.

1458
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:03,000
And you know, he was always very, very hard on me.

1459
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:08,360
And he actually in his time as a sheriff, I was on my way to school because I overslept

1460
01:19:08,360 --> 01:19:10,560
and I was speeding.

1461
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:12,800
And like, I remember seeing a police car.

1462
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:13,800
I can remember this.

1463
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:14,800
He's probably gonna laugh his ass off.

1464
01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:15,800
He was listening to this.

1465
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:20,200
It was a sheriff's car sitting there with its four ways on the hood up.

1466
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:22,280
And it looked like it was on a jack.

1467
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:25,080
And I remember speeding and I'm like, haha, idiot.

1468
01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:27,640
And then he just walked right out pointed and pointed over.

1469
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:29,480
And I'm like, fuck.

1470
01:19:29,480 --> 01:19:32,520
The second he walked out from behind the car, I knew who it was.

1471
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:38,560
And I'm like, shit, I was like, I'm gonna hear it.

1472
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:41,840
So of course, I have this little lowered Honda and I'm driving like an asshole with loud

1473
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:47,360
music, this typical teenage stupidity.

1474
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:49,480
So I pulled over, turn the music down and he just link.

1475
01:19:49,480 --> 01:19:50,480
He's tall.

1476
01:19:50,480 --> 01:19:55,720
He's leaned down and just looked at me and I'm like, he goes, you can't finish your education

1477
01:19:55,720 --> 01:19:56,720
if you're dead.

1478
01:19:56,720 --> 01:19:57,720
And I'm like, Nope.

1479
01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:00,200
He goes, we'll talk later.

1480
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:01,200
Go to school.

1481
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:05,240
And I'm like, okay, see you later.

1482
01:20:05,240 --> 01:20:09,620
And I drove off and he let me have it.

1483
01:20:09,620 --> 01:20:10,620
He comes back.

1484
01:20:10,620 --> 01:20:14,480
I mean, I went to school, I went home, I went to the firehouse or whatever.

1485
01:20:14,480 --> 01:20:19,800
And he's I remember him saying like, you speed or kill somebody, you're gonna ruin your fucking

1486
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:20,800
life.

1487
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:24,940
He goes, if you want to do stupid things, do stupid things, whatever.

1488
01:20:24,940 --> 01:20:27,600
But don't do, he's like, you're gonna do stupid things.

1489
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:30,280
And if you're gonna do something this dumb, it can ruin your life.

1490
01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:33,200
Like, you know, what are you doing?

1491
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:34,200
Like what's wrong with you?

1492
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:36,880
And I'm like, oh, he's like, all right, don't speed anymore.

1493
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:38,840
And some other select stuff.

1494
01:20:38,840 --> 01:20:40,800
But so there was that.

1495
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:43,120
And then he just, he always kept me on the straight and narrow.

1496
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:46,200
He always had, I don't want to say he always had something to say, but like he always had

1497
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:47,680
an opinion on something.

1498
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:52,520
And you know, we go on a fire or just life stuff and he'd always have advice.

1499
01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:58,240
He'd always have, you know, he'd always, I don't know how to explain it, but like he

1500
01:20:58,240 --> 01:21:03,160
was that stern father figure that I always kind of wanted that and he provided that.

1501
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:09,200
And you know, there's a lot of stuff that I learned and habits that, excuse me, formed

1502
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:12,840
and some of the lessons I think I didn't realize until I was older and didn't appreciate him

1503
01:21:12,840 --> 01:21:13,840
when I was younger.

1504
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:15,840
And I did a lot of stupid things when I was young.

1505
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:18,160
Like I was, I was an idiot.

1506
01:21:18,160 --> 01:21:19,200
God, I was an idiot.

1507
01:21:19,200 --> 01:21:24,720
I wouldn't change any of it in the past because I feel like where I am now, I wouldn't be

1508
01:21:24,720 --> 01:21:28,320
without those mistakes and lessons.

1509
01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:32,040
And if I didn't do that stupid stuff back then, and then they kind of, those stupid

1510
01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:33,960
memories hibernated for years.

1511
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:39,560
And then like I get to a maturity level now where I'm like, oh shit, wait a minute.

1512
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:44,480
When I was 19, maybe not 19, but when I was a teenager at the volunteer firehouse, I remember

1513
01:21:44,480 --> 01:21:46,280
this conversation specifically.

1514
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:47,320
Crap.

1515
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:48,320
That's what they meant.

1516
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:51,680
Like it all like, you know, like, I don't know how to, I don't know if that makes sense

1517
01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:59,200
or not, but I mean, this, this guy, he just, I mean, I wouldn't be anything without him.

1518
01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:00,640
And I made sure to tell him that.

1519
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:03,000
And you know, it's always great to see him.

1520
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:04,360
He always gives me a big bear hug.

1521
01:22:04,360 --> 01:22:09,040
And every time, you know, I see him and, and we, you know, we catch up a little bit or

1522
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:13,760
whatever it's very, it's good.

1523
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:14,760
It really is.

1524
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:20,640
It reminds me how far I've come and that somebody like that, that is not blood related really

1525
01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:27,480
cares and wants you to be better than they are without wanting anything in return.

1526
01:22:27,480 --> 01:22:29,840
I don't know if that makes sense or not, but he does.

1527
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:31,480
And he knows who he is.

1528
01:22:31,480 --> 01:22:34,920
I just, our department's weird with public and social media stuff.

1529
01:22:34,920 --> 01:22:38,720
And I just, I don't want to put them in a weird spot because we're supposed to get permission

1530
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:41,320
to talk about our department on stuff like this.

1531
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:46,000
So he knows who he is and he knows how impactful he was in my life.

1532
01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:50,080
Well, I mean, I'm, I'm glad I asked that because this is, this is the thing.

1533
01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:54,600
Every single one of us has the ability to be a mentor in some way, shape or form as

1534
01:22:54,600 --> 01:23:00,000
a guy I follow who teaches kids how to change tires, you know, like basic, you know, dude

1535
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:03,560
stuff as Pat McNamara would say, you know, and I mean, this, there's so many different

1536
01:23:03,560 --> 01:23:08,080
ways that you can use whatever you're good at it or, you know, like you said, cutting

1537
01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:09,080
grass.

1538
01:23:09,080 --> 01:23:14,280
You know, that does the 50 yard challenge Rodney and he's got kids all over the world

1539
01:23:14,280 --> 01:23:18,680
cutting grass for free for elderly and military and some other people.

1540
01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:20,360
You know, this is it.

1541
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:25,600
So whatever you are good at, you can positively affect your community.

1542
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:30,640
And then so rather than pointing fingers like, ah, this president or this fire chief or whatever,

1543
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:31,640
look in the mirror.

1544
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:36,400
Are you being a good husband and a good parent or wife or whatever it is, and then step outside

1545
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:37,600
your front door?

1546
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:38,920
How can I help?

1547
01:23:38,920 --> 01:23:44,480
Where I live this immediate area in some way, shape or form and don't ever underestimate

1548
01:23:44,480 --> 01:23:49,640
the impact you have on someone in their life, no matter how short or how long it is like

1549
01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:50,640
at all.

1550
01:23:50,640 --> 01:23:53,720
And that's one of the biggest lessons I learned from just now reflecting.

1551
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:55,680
And I know something I've thought and I've actually talked to him.

1552
01:23:55,680 --> 01:24:01,320
I've talked to him about this is just, you know, don't ever underestimate your impact

1553
01:24:01,320 --> 01:24:06,800
on someone else's life, no matter how minor or how minute or how big you are part of someone's

1554
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:10,720
life and that goes both ways, like helping them, mentoring them, teaching them, or if

1555
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:14,960
you're an asshole to them, like you never know what people are going through.

1556
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:17,280
And just a simple, hey, how you doing?

1557
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:22,920
Like a really great example of all this is in my department, which will not be named

1558
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:26,280
to say large metropolitan department in the D.C. metropolitan area.

1559
01:24:26,280 --> 01:24:28,000
I'll leave it at that.

1560
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:36,080
We have a guy that works for us now that was a cadet and lived in the first due of where

1561
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:38,760
I work since I've been there.

1562
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:39,760
He's very, very young.

1563
01:24:39,760 --> 01:24:41,120
I've been there for seven years.

1564
01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:45,680
He's I think 20 or 19 now.

1565
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:48,120
And he came and worked overtime with us as a rookie.

1566
01:24:48,120 --> 01:24:50,960
One of the first times he was able to work overtime, came to my fight.

1567
01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:55,040
He works a different place on a different shift, came to where I work and we were talking.

1568
01:24:55,040 --> 01:24:56,720
He said, yeah, I grew up on this street.

1569
01:24:56,720 --> 01:24:57,720
This was my address.

1570
01:24:57,720 --> 01:25:00,040
He goes, I remember you pointing at me.

1571
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:03,160
He's like, I remember you coming on calls and I remember how nice you were to my mom.

1572
01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:06,960
And, you know, you you guys took time to say hi to me and all that stuff.

1573
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:09,040
I was floored.

1574
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:10,560
And I'm like, I'm sitting there looking at him.

1575
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:13,160
I'm like, I got the hair going up on my neck just talking about it.

1576
01:25:13,160 --> 01:25:14,160
I looked at him like, are you serious?

1577
01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:16,680
He goes, yeah, he's like, yeah, man, I was a kid.

1578
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:17,820
I used to hide in my room.

1579
01:25:17,820 --> 01:25:20,640
But I remember you guys talking to me one of the one of the times you guys let me see

1580
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:21,640
the truck.

1581
01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:23,520
And I'm like, well, you're a teenager.

1582
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:25,960
He's like, yeah, I was I think he said he was 13 or 12.

1583
01:25:25,960 --> 01:25:26,960
I don't remember.

1584
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:27,960
He's very young.

1585
01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:33,360
But either way, I would have never thought twice about that ever.

1586
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:36,840
Incredibly my new calls Chuck and Jive with kids.

1587
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:38,240
You know, hey, man, how you doing?

1588
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:43,160
I always I always find myself when there's kids around, I always talk to them.

1589
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:49,360
You know, I'll make a joke like, you know, obviously, if it's appropriate on the call,

1590
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:53,480
like, you know, that will be taught, they'll be talking to the parents or whatever.

1591
01:25:53,480 --> 01:25:56,360
And the kids sitting there and I'll look at him like you stayed in trouble.

1592
01:25:56,360 --> 01:25:57,360
Are you staying in trouble?

1593
01:25:57,360 --> 01:25:59,920
I was like, are you doing all your homework for school?

1594
01:25:59,920 --> 01:26:01,760
Staying out of trouble and they'll kind of like laugh and joke.

1595
01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:02,760
And that's it.

1596
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:03,760
I don't think anything of it.

1597
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:06,960
I just I engage them or, you know, something.

1598
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:07,960
And I never thought about it.

1599
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:08,960
And then fast forward.

1600
01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:11,320
Yeah, man, I remember this is great, man.

1601
01:26:11,320 --> 01:26:13,280
And it really made me want to get into the fire department.

1602
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:16,480
And I was absolutely stunned.

1603
01:26:16,480 --> 01:26:18,800
Like it almost it.

1604
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:25,200
It took my breath away to know that somebody had that kind of impact.

1605
01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:26,200
And I wasn't emotional about it.

1606
01:26:26,200 --> 01:26:29,080
I mean, it's just kind of like it stopped me dead in my tracks.

1607
01:26:29,080 --> 01:26:31,960
Like, you know, felt good.

1608
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:36,360
You know, I mean, I mean, you never let the people look for recognition, but we just don't

1609
01:26:36,360 --> 01:26:37,360
talk to each other like that.

1610
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:39,360
Like, you know how it is how guys in the firehouse are.

1611
01:26:39,360 --> 01:26:41,240
It's just not what we do.

1612
01:26:41,240 --> 01:26:45,120
But you know, again, this guy, that was my biggest mentor.

1613
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:48,280
And with this scenario, I haven't called him and told him about this.

1614
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:49,280
We talked about it.

1615
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:52,200
And I was remember I remember him saying, you know, don't ever be don't ever forget

1616
01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:54,960
your impact on anyone, no matter how big or how small it is.

1617
01:26:54,960 --> 01:26:56,640
And I think that was the biggest lesson as well.

1618
01:26:56,640 --> 01:26:59,640
You know, I really do.

1619
01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:06,480
The last place I worked for, we seem to get more thank yous and other places that I've

1620
01:27:06,480 --> 01:27:07,480
worked.

1621
01:27:07,480 --> 01:27:10,200
The previous one was it was a county and, you know, we just show up.

1622
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:12,780
They have no idea who we are, what rig we're on.

1623
01:27:12,780 --> 01:27:14,120
But the most recent one, we got more.

1624
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:17,200
And I look back at the thank yous we got.

1625
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:21,280
And we've you know, in 14 years, of course, you've you've saved lives, numerous lives

1626
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:26,960
and extricated people and all the things, rescued animals.

1627
01:27:26,960 --> 01:27:32,120
But what I realized is that the common denominator of the thank yous was that you were kind to

1628
01:27:32,120 --> 01:27:33,160
the people.

1629
01:27:33,160 --> 01:27:37,960
And so when I hear people talk about, you know, customer service and the fire service,

1630
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:42,640
like it's not customer service is just not being a dick, you know, actually being, you

1631
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:47,200
know, caring, having compassion, being kind, finding the humanity in the call.

1632
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:51,400
And we said earlier, obviously about detaching if, you know, someone's bleeding to death

1633
01:27:51,400 --> 01:27:55,680
or, you know, full cardiac arrest, you're not singing them songs and reading in poetry,

1634
01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:56,960
you're doing your job.

1635
01:27:56,960 --> 01:28:00,660
But you know, there are people around, you know, there are children crying that daddy's,

1636
01:28:00,660 --> 01:28:02,640
you know, having a heart, whatever it is.

1637
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:07,520
And so, you know, this is the thing with, you know, the whole leadership and customer

1638
01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:11,140
service conversation is I don't think it's customer service.

1639
01:28:11,140 --> 01:28:15,440
I think it's just diving back into like we touched on earlier, the yin and the yang,

1640
01:28:15,440 --> 01:28:17,400
refinding your yin.

1641
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:19,920
Have I got that right?

1642
01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:21,760
Anyway, I always like this.

1643
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:26,440
But you know, find that compassion, that soft side, and understanding that that needs to

1644
01:28:26,440 --> 01:28:33,200
coexist with whatever the call is and a simple hand on a shoulder or finding a picture from

1645
01:28:33,200 --> 01:28:38,000
a fridge during a house fire before you pull ceiling and destroy everything.

1646
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:40,160
Those are the little moments that the people remember.

1647
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:43,400
Yeah, those are the ones that people say thank you for.

1648
01:28:43,400 --> 01:28:49,120
It's the human interaction, you know, it and I remember a cardiac arrest I went on.

1649
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:51,960
And the lady was the nicest person in the world.

1650
01:28:51,960 --> 01:28:56,640
You know, the I don't remember exactly what age was a guy that died and he had a cardiac

1651
01:28:56,640 --> 01:28:57,640
arrest.

1652
01:28:57,640 --> 01:29:01,320
And, you know, I remember her saying I said to her, I was like, do you have advanced directives?

1653
01:29:01,320 --> 01:29:06,120
And she's like, No, no, no, we, we don't have the and there was the tone in her voice.

1654
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:13,320
And I remember sitting there and I just looked at him like, look, if you have advanced directives,

1655
01:29:13,320 --> 01:29:18,720
I said, just remember, I said, I know this is very sad, and I'm very sorry, but the advanced

1656
01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:21,480
directives were their wishes.

1657
01:29:21,480 --> 01:29:23,080
So that I know you don't want them to die.

1658
01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:25,920
But I think it's something you should maybe consider to think about if you have them or

1659
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:31,040
not, because ultimately, you know, they wanted to go peacefully if they wanted advanced directives.

1660
01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:33,440
And she kind of sat there for a second, she started crying a little bit.

1661
01:29:33,440 --> 01:29:36,760
And she's like, I will we have them, but I want them to live.

1662
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:39,960
And I'm like, I don't think he's going to live.

1663
01:29:39,960 --> 01:29:41,680
I don't think it's going to happen.

1664
01:29:41,680 --> 01:29:45,780
I said, you know, his disease is very, very advanced.

1665
01:29:45,780 --> 01:29:48,200
There's a reason why he made this decision.

1666
01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:51,400
I said, but we're going to do what we want to do what you ask us to do.

1667
01:29:51,400 --> 01:29:53,960
I just want you to think about that.

1668
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:57,080
And then she goes, why she comes back upstairs and she goes, well, explain to me what's going

1669
01:29:57,080 --> 01:29:58,080
on.

1670
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:00,640
So I was like, all right, we're following our protocols.

1671
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:01,920
His heart's not beating.

1672
01:30:01,920 --> 01:30:02,920
He's not breathing.

1673
01:30:02,920 --> 01:30:05,520
I said, this is how we do our protocols.

1674
01:30:05,520 --> 01:30:06,520
This is what we're going to do.

1675
01:30:06,520 --> 01:30:07,520
These are the interventions.

1676
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:10,520
And she goes, well, here's his advanced directives.

1677
01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:12,480
I said, okay.

1678
01:30:12,480 --> 01:30:15,160
So they weren't signed correctly.

1679
01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:18,240
They weren't, you know, they weren't done the right way.

1680
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:19,240
They should have been done.

1681
01:30:19,240 --> 01:30:24,000
I said, okay, well, we can't use these.

1682
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:26,540
So I was like, this is a paperwork.

1683
01:30:26,540 --> 01:30:28,760
This is his will, not his advanced directives.

1684
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:29,760
And she said, oh, okay.

1685
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:31,700
Well, I don't think he has one that.

1686
01:30:31,700 --> 01:30:36,440
And I remember thinking to myself, thank God I trust my instinct to just be compassionate

1687
01:30:36,440 --> 01:30:38,840
with this woman and explain it to her.

1688
01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:41,440
Followed our protocols, did everything by policy and all that.

1689
01:30:41,440 --> 01:30:42,440
No big deal.

1690
01:30:42,440 --> 01:30:43,520
He passed.

1691
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:46,320
And she's like, you know, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me.

1692
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:47,960
And she gave me this gigantic hug.

1693
01:30:47,960 --> 01:30:48,960
And I don't like hugging people.

1694
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:50,200
I don't like shaking hands.

1695
01:30:50,200 --> 01:30:52,240
I just don't do it on calls to me.

1696
01:30:52,240 --> 01:30:53,720
I just, I don't know.

1697
01:30:53,720 --> 01:30:54,840
I don't know how to explain that.

1698
01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:56,160
I just typically don't shake hands.

1699
01:30:56,160 --> 01:30:57,800
I just don't do that.

1700
01:30:57,800 --> 01:31:01,720
And this lady gave this gigantic hug and she's like, no one explained this stuff to me.

1701
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:04,280
I thought this meant he has a DNR.

1702
01:31:04,280 --> 01:31:06,080
She goes, but I didn't know what it was.

1703
01:31:06,080 --> 01:31:07,080
No one's explained it to me.

1704
01:31:07,080 --> 01:31:09,640
And I was like, well, this is his will.

1705
01:31:09,640 --> 01:31:10,640
You're going to need this.

1706
01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:13,480
I was like, but you know, it's not a DNR.

1707
01:31:13,480 --> 01:31:14,960
The DNR looks completely different.

1708
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:18,240
And it said on there will like living will or whatever.

1709
01:31:18,240 --> 01:31:23,000
And when you read it, it was from a lawyer, not a doctor.

1710
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:25,680
So you know, and I didn't think anything of that call.

1711
01:31:25,680 --> 01:31:27,160
Now I just thought that was the end of it.

1712
01:31:27,160 --> 01:31:29,640
You know, whatever.

1713
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:33,800
Fast forward like two or three months.

1714
01:31:33,800 --> 01:31:35,520
I'm dead dog tired.

1715
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:38,920
I finished a 36 hour shift and I'm leaving my firehouse.

1716
01:31:38,920 --> 01:31:42,600
I go to Starbucks right down, not too far from my station.

1717
01:31:42,600 --> 01:31:46,120
And I walk in and this lady grabs my arm.

1718
01:31:46,120 --> 01:31:47,120
Same lady.

1719
01:31:47,120 --> 01:31:48,120
She's like, Hey, do you remember me?

1720
01:31:48,120 --> 01:31:53,320
And I'm like, no, she goes, you came to my dad's house.

1721
01:31:53,320 --> 01:31:54,320
This was my address.

1722
01:31:54,320 --> 01:31:56,080
You were very sweet to me.

1723
01:31:56,080 --> 01:31:59,480
You know, I just, I wanted to tell you how much my family and I appreciate this, you

1724
01:31:59,480 --> 01:32:01,240
know, that all this stuff has been so upsetting.

1725
01:32:01,240 --> 01:32:02,440
We wanted him to live.

1726
01:32:02,440 --> 01:32:08,240
And you know, I think it's something that, you know, we, we didn't really understand

1727
01:32:08,240 --> 01:32:12,080
how important it was to know the paperwork and you know, it just, it's not something

1728
01:32:12,080 --> 01:32:13,080
that anybody told us.

1729
01:32:13,080 --> 01:32:17,640
And you know, we're really glad that we didn't tell you to stop your CPR and all that.

1730
01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:20,040
And I'm like, you know, yeah, I mean, that's my job.

1731
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:21,040
And that's what I'm here for.

1732
01:32:21,040 --> 01:32:23,120
She's like, no, I don't think you understand.

1733
01:32:23,120 --> 01:32:26,480
Like, you know, you did everything you had to do and you were supposed to do.

1734
01:32:26,480 --> 01:32:28,600
And we knew exactly what you needed to do.

1735
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:32,480
And that it made it easier for us when he died that knowing that he got everything,

1736
01:32:32,480 --> 01:32:36,040
he got every chance he had for him to stay, but he just was too sick.

1737
01:32:36,040 --> 01:32:37,040
And I'm like, I mean, yeah, sure.

1738
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:38,040
I mean, it's what I'm here for.

1739
01:32:38,040 --> 01:32:43,840
Like, you know, that's kind of, it's my job and you know, I'm glad to be able to help

1740
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:45,280
you with that and all that.

1741
01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:48,880
What I guess I didn't, I didn't appreciate or understand at that time.

1742
01:32:48,880 --> 01:32:53,200
And I do now thinking back about it, it was just how important and how impactful you are,

1743
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:57,680
even if, even though you're there for an hour, a half an hour or 20 minutes or 10 minutes.

1744
01:32:57,680 --> 01:33:02,440
Again, like I said before, you know, don't ever underestimate the impact you're going

1745
01:33:02,440 --> 01:33:06,000
to have on someone's life, regardless of how long or how short you're in it.

1746
01:33:06,000 --> 01:33:09,440
I mean, you know, so I mean, it's a little off topic.

1747
01:33:09,440 --> 01:33:14,080
Sorry to get off on a tangent on that one, but that's, that's a call that I kind of keep

1748
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:15,080
in the back of my mind sometimes.

1749
01:33:15,080 --> 01:33:16,080
I don't know why either.

1750
01:33:16,080 --> 01:33:18,560
It was a very low stress call.

1751
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:20,680
Well, I think it's important though.

1752
01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:25,840
I actually wrote a book a few years ago and one of the chapters I wrote about basically

1753
01:33:25,840 --> 01:33:30,240
a back to bed call and the kind of every, every chapter is like a short story.

1754
01:33:30,240 --> 01:33:33,540
So every chapter then there was a takeaway and the takeaway in that particular one was

1755
01:33:33,540 --> 01:33:38,920
aging and how, you know, how we view getting older and compassion.

1756
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:42,960
But the number of times I've gone to a back to bed call and everyone's groaning and I

1757
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:44,720
go, Oh my God, this is going to be bullshit.

1758
01:33:44,720 --> 01:33:50,600
But you take a step back for a second and you look at in this, you know, the one I wrote

1759
01:33:50,600 --> 01:33:56,080
about an elderly couple and you've got a man who at one point was like you and me, he was

1760
01:33:56,080 --> 01:34:00,840
physically capable of protecting his wife, of, you know, taking care of his wife, but

1761
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:06,040
now they're in their eighties and they're frail and she's fallen off the bed and he

1762
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:08,220
can't even pick her up.

1763
01:34:08,220 --> 01:34:12,080
So he's riddled with his own shame and guilt.

1764
01:34:12,080 --> 01:34:18,960
And then we show up or in this case capable men and you know, she soiled herself as well,

1765
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:21,320
which happens a lot, obviously, as we all know.

1766
01:34:21,320 --> 01:34:26,120
And so you take her and you help her get cleaned up and you get her a fresh, you know, change

1767
01:34:26,120 --> 01:34:27,120
your clothes.

1768
01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:30,040
None of that's in the job description of a firefighter or a paramedic, but it's the right

1769
01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:31,040
thing to do.

1770
01:34:31,040 --> 01:34:32,920
And you're not thinking, Oh, this is customer service.

1771
01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:37,920
No, you're just thinking this is the fucking right thing to do full stop.

1772
01:34:37,920 --> 01:34:42,680
And you restore that couple's dignity and you make that lady comfortable and you check

1773
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:46,200
her out and make sure she hasn't hurt herself and you put her back to bed.

1774
01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:50,480
And you know, the husband then is, you know, is grateful and he's kind of, you know, his

1775
01:34:50,480 --> 01:34:54,680
dignity is restored as well, but there's nothing heroic about that.

1776
01:34:54,680 --> 01:34:58,080
No one's going to make a movie about back to bed calls.

1777
01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:05,680
But to me, those are some of the most powerful calls because four capable firefighter paramedics

1778
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:10,600
showed up and mitigated someone's worst day and they weren't hanging 12 stories from a

1779
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:11,920
burning building.

1780
01:35:11,920 --> 01:35:17,240
Their worst day was the love of his life was lying in her own feces on the bedroom floor

1781
01:35:17,240 --> 01:35:19,120
and you were able to fix that.

1782
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:23,480
So that's the thing to me is like when you put the humanity back, it takes away a lot

1783
01:35:23,480 --> 01:35:25,880
of that eye rolling and don't get me wrong, this bullshit calls.

1784
01:35:25,880 --> 01:35:31,360
I'm totally aware of those, but you know, those kind of calls, it's kindness and compassion.

1785
01:35:31,360 --> 01:35:35,000
And the moment you lose that and you're like, Oh, I want to be fighting fire right now.

1786
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:36,680
You're missing the point.

1787
01:35:36,680 --> 01:35:38,200
Those people needed help.

1788
01:35:38,200 --> 01:35:42,800
And the four of you or three of you walked in and you literally made their worst day

1789
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:45,400
into their best day if you treated it right.

1790
01:35:45,400 --> 01:35:46,400
Yeah.

1791
01:35:46,400 --> 01:35:48,920
And I think I'm not a super religious person.

1792
01:35:48,920 --> 01:35:53,640
I'm not a super like, you know, any of that stuff got kind of guy.

1793
01:35:53,640 --> 01:36:01,040
I mean, I have my beliefs, um, you know, of based off experiences, but I think, and I

1794
01:36:01,040 --> 01:36:07,800
say this, but I think karma, maybe it's not actual karma, but what I've learned in my

1795
01:36:07,800 --> 01:36:12,900
time, especially my time as a company level officer and my time in the fire department,

1796
01:36:12,900 --> 01:36:18,640
if you take it call by call and you treat every call and do your absolute best, you

1797
01:36:18,640 --> 01:36:22,460
do the right thing, morally, ethically, legally, all that stuff.

1798
01:36:22,460 --> 01:36:29,080
And you get, you give your focus onto whatever's going on, sick, dying, dead, it doesn't matter.

1799
01:36:29,080 --> 01:36:32,740
And you give it your absolute best and you show up.

1800
01:36:32,740 --> 01:36:38,760
I think you're paying into the bank of good karma to where, you know, this fifth call

1801
01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:44,600
after midnight or, you know, this call where the guy shit himself and this sucks.

1802
01:36:44,600 --> 01:36:47,280
If you just get it taken care of, you do it the right way.

1803
01:36:47,280 --> 01:36:53,960
You're going to get that absolute fricking ripper that you want, you know, operational

1804
01:36:53,960 --> 01:36:59,520
discipline, being where you're supposed to be when you're supposed to be there over time

1805
01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:02,840
will provide you the scenario to get what you want.

1806
01:37:02,840 --> 01:37:06,440
I think, you know, I mean, do I want to be third due and do line over ladder to an area

1807
01:37:06,440 --> 01:37:07,440
where there's no fire?

1808
01:37:07,440 --> 01:37:08,440
Nope.

1809
01:37:08,440 --> 01:37:11,600
Have I been third due going to the rear, pulling a line where I didn't think we were going

1810
01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:12,600
to do anything?

1811
01:37:12,600 --> 01:37:13,600
Then we ended up putting out the entire fire.

1812
01:37:13,600 --> 01:37:15,560
It was an absolute kick ass fire.

1813
01:37:15,560 --> 01:37:16,560
Yep.

1814
01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:20,640
Because if we weren't there in the position to be there and we're all screwing around

1815
01:37:20,640 --> 01:37:23,480
doing something else, we may not have had the opportunity.

1816
01:37:23,480 --> 01:37:24,960
That's the whole point.

1817
01:37:24,960 --> 01:37:31,440
Do the right thing, whether you want to or not, every time and in time, the right things

1818
01:37:31,440 --> 01:37:32,620
will happen.

1819
01:37:32,620 --> 01:37:34,760
You'll be in the position that you want to be in.

1820
01:37:34,760 --> 01:37:42,520
May not feel like it today, may not feel like it tomorrow, but on the macro level, big picture

1821
01:37:42,520 --> 01:37:49,040
wise, looking back over 17 years of my career, 10 years of being an officer, it's been that

1822
01:37:49,040 --> 01:37:54,720
way and I've been a firm believer in that consistently over the last five years and

1823
01:37:54,720 --> 01:37:59,840
in five years looking back, I'm telling you, just do the right thing and everything will

1824
01:37:59,840 --> 01:38:00,840
come back to you.

1825
01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:01,840
It will.

1826
01:38:01,840 --> 01:38:02,840
It really will.

1827
01:38:02,840 --> 01:38:03,840
Absolutely.

1828
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:11,560
Well, when you reflect on your time as a volunteer, you entered the service pretty young.

1829
01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:19,000
What is your perception now of, there's a few things that seem to come up a lot recently,

1830
01:38:19,000 --> 01:38:23,080
a young mind being exposed to some of the things that we see in the fire service and

1831
01:38:23,080 --> 01:38:27,520
then in the volunteer setting, another thing that doesn't seem to be discussed or understood

1832
01:38:27,520 --> 01:38:33,760
maybe by us in career as much is living and working in the same community.

1833
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:37,980
Maybe seeing classmates, teachers, that kind of thing that you just don't have.

1834
01:38:37,980 --> 01:38:42,260
I lived usually about an hour from where I worked most of my career.

1835
01:38:42,260 --> 01:38:48,000
What are your reflections on that portion of your fire service career?

1836
01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:51,880
I had somebody that I went to high school with, girl I knew.

1837
01:38:51,880 --> 01:38:53,240
Maybe I wasn't friends with her or anything.

1838
01:38:53,240 --> 01:38:54,360
I knew who she was.

1839
01:38:54,360 --> 01:38:56,280
I think I might've had a class or two with her.

1840
01:38:56,280 --> 01:39:02,440
I definitely did summer school with her since I didn't pay attention in high school, but

1841
01:39:02,440 --> 01:39:03,720
whatever.

1842
01:39:03,720 --> 01:39:09,440
She pulled out in front of somebody and she got hit and it killed her, like immediate.

1843
01:39:09,440 --> 01:39:11,680
I'll never forget she got blown out of her shoes.

1844
01:39:11,680 --> 01:39:13,760
One shoe was still on the gas pedal.

1845
01:39:13,760 --> 01:39:17,320
The other shoe was on the floorboard where her feet usually are and she was thrown into

1846
01:39:17,320 --> 01:39:20,200
the, she got hit on the driver's door.

1847
01:39:20,200 --> 01:39:21,960
So imagine a sedan, right?

1848
01:39:21,960 --> 01:39:23,120
Four seats.

1849
01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:29,600
She was behind the right rear seat, jammed into the windshield, if that makes sense.

1850
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:37,080
Small, petite girl, I think maybe like five foot, maybe 110 pounds, so it blew her in

1851
01:39:37,080 --> 01:39:38,080
there.

1852
01:39:38,080 --> 01:39:39,080
I don't even remember if she had seatbelt.

1853
01:39:39,080 --> 01:39:43,920
I don't know, but I'll never forget popping my head in saying there's nobody in the car,

1854
01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:44,920
but their shoes are there.

1855
01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:47,640
And they're like, she's in the windshield and she's priority forward.

1856
01:39:47,640 --> 01:39:53,000
And I look over and she's priority for, well, she's underage.

1857
01:39:53,000 --> 01:39:56,600
So we break the windshield, pull her out.

1858
01:39:56,600 --> 01:40:01,440
You know, it looks like she's priority for, but protocols and everything were so different

1859
01:40:01,440 --> 01:40:02,440
back then.

1860
01:40:02,440 --> 01:40:03,960
Like everything was different back then.

1861
01:40:03,960 --> 01:40:08,800
So we did CPR on her and she died.

1862
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:12,040
And people I went to school with knew that I've worked, that I volunteered in the Homing

1863
01:40:12,040 --> 01:40:14,580
Down Volunteer Fire Department.

1864
01:40:14,580 --> 01:40:16,760
So then that came up at school.

1865
01:40:16,760 --> 01:40:19,960
And some of the conversations were not that fun and not that great.

1866
01:40:19,960 --> 01:40:22,000
And they were freaking awkward.

1867
01:40:22,000 --> 01:40:23,000
And it is what it is now.

1868
01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:27,720
I mean, that was 20 years ago or however long I've been out of high school now, whatever.

1869
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:30,040
Is what it is.

1870
01:40:30,040 --> 01:40:33,600
And you know, that's a call that I'll never forget ever.

1871
01:40:33,600 --> 01:40:36,400
Like I can remember the smell, like talking to you, I remember the smell of her car.

1872
01:40:36,400 --> 01:40:40,600
I remember, you know, I remember everything.

1873
01:40:40,600 --> 01:40:45,820
And it's something I haven't thought about in a long time.

1874
01:40:45,820 --> 01:40:47,320
And it was tough.

1875
01:40:47,320 --> 01:40:48,320
You know, it wasn't easy.

1876
01:40:48,320 --> 01:40:50,000
And it wasn't just like the call's over.

1877
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:51,280
So let's leave now.

1878
01:40:51,280 --> 01:40:55,760
No, like the call followed me to school and I was just like, fuck man.

1879
01:40:55,760 --> 01:41:01,880
You know, but after the call, inappropriate jokes, random foolery, guys acting like nothing

1880
01:41:01,880 --> 01:41:02,880
happened.

1881
01:41:02,880 --> 01:41:03,880
You know, there's always that pause.

1882
01:41:03,880 --> 01:41:05,680
Like, I think that's a respect thing.

1883
01:41:05,680 --> 01:41:10,560
Like in the moment of being respectful, especially when somebody's dead, especially when something's

1884
01:41:10,560 --> 01:41:16,960
super traumatic or super bad, like really bad in the house, like there's always that

1885
01:41:16,960 --> 01:41:17,960
respect.

1886
01:41:17,960 --> 01:41:22,440
But when you get back into the rescue squad or the fire truck or the ambulance, it's a

1887
01:41:22,440 --> 01:41:26,360
game on, it's dark humor and it's guys fucking with each other.

1888
01:41:26,360 --> 01:41:29,600
And that was one of my first big introductions into it.

1889
01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:36,920
And that's when I think I started really understanding and laughing about the dark humor and how important

1890
01:41:36,920 --> 01:41:37,920
that was.

1891
01:41:37,920 --> 01:41:43,240
And then it took me a long time to reflect and learn this, but it was, I know what you

1892
01:41:43,240 --> 01:41:45,440
feel like I've been there.

1893
01:41:45,440 --> 01:41:46,440
Let's have a joke.

1894
01:41:46,440 --> 01:41:47,440
Let's have a laugh.

1895
01:41:47,440 --> 01:41:48,440
You know, I'm on this.

1896
01:41:48,440 --> 01:41:49,440
I know what you're feeling.

1897
01:41:49,440 --> 01:41:53,720
I'm feeling it too, but let's we're, we're going to get through this together and let,

1898
01:41:53,720 --> 01:41:54,720
let's move on and have a laugh.

1899
01:41:54,720 --> 01:41:57,360
And then this, this will help you heal from it.

1900
01:41:57,360 --> 01:41:58,880
I mean, obviously those are inferences.

1901
01:41:58,880 --> 01:42:04,280
No one ever said that to me, but that's, you know, that was always my, my take on it.

1902
01:42:04,280 --> 01:42:10,240
There was another call where a guy that I was a volunteer in the County at a different

1903
01:42:10,240 --> 01:42:11,960
firehouse who I was good for.

1904
01:42:11,960 --> 01:42:14,880
I was friends with him and everybody in the car.

1905
01:42:14,880 --> 01:42:17,760
I was two of three of them volunteered.

1906
01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:22,280
And there was another, it was a third person.

1907
01:42:22,280 --> 01:42:26,400
There's three, three in the car, three in the car.

1908
01:42:26,400 --> 01:42:27,880
And they went hill hopping.

1909
01:42:27,880 --> 01:42:29,560
Do you know what hill hopping is?

1910
01:42:29,560 --> 01:42:30,560
You know that.

1911
01:42:30,560 --> 01:42:33,120
So you get in the car and you go over a hill.

1912
01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:34,960
You speed over the hill and you go flying.

1913
01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:36,480
Like you jump the car jumps.

1914
01:42:36,480 --> 01:42:38,000
It's called hill hopping.

1915
01:42:38,000 --> 01:42:43,240
We did a lot when I was in school and it was in the first due and where I volunteered at

1916
01:42:43,240 --> 01:42:45,760
and they went over this hill, they hit the ground.

1917
01:42:45,760 --> 01:42:50,600
The guy lost control of the car, went up, hit the embankment, rolled and rolled.

1918
01:42:50,600 --> 01:42:52,200
It ejected everyone out of the car.

1919
01:42:52,200 --> 01:42:53,480
They actually know there was a fourth person.

1920
01:42:53,480 --> 01:42:56,760
There was a girl in there that was not a volunteer.

1921
01:42:56,760 --> 01:42:59,020
She's not a volunteer.

1922
01:42:59,020 --> 01:43:00,020
She was teenager.

1923
01:43:00,020 --> 01:43:01,020
Yeah.

1924
01:43:01,020 --> 01:43:02,780
She was dead.

1925
01:43:02,780 --> 01:43:04,800
One guy ejected was a volunteer firefighter.

1926
01:43:04,800 --> 01:43:06,060
He was dead.

1927
01:43:06,060 --> 01:43:07,960
The other one got ejected.

1928
01:43:07,960 --> 01:43:08,960
He was alive.

1929
01:43:08,960 --> 01:43:11,920
And then there was another girl and I knew this chick.

1930
01:43:11,920 --> 01:43:13,700
She got ejected too.

1931
01:43:13,700 --> 01:43:17,040
And we get there and it's absolute chaos.

1932
01:43:17,040 --> 01:43:18,240
Like there's people everywhere.

1933
01:43:18,240 --> 01:43:19,520
There's parts everywhere.

1934
01:43:19,520 --> 01:43:21,520
One person's laying on their back just screaming.

1935
01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:24,360
And I'm like, Whoa, this is, we show up on the rescue squad.

1936
01:43:24,360 --> 01:43:26,720
I'm an officer, a volunteer officer.

1937
01:43:26,720 --> 01:43:33,880
This is my first call as an officer, as a volunteer.

1938
01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:38,140
And we pop this hill and there's just, there's this shit everywhere.

1939
01:43:38,140 --> 01:43:39,400
And people are yelling and they're screaming.

1940
01:43:39,400 --> 01:43:41,000
And I kind of figured this was going to happen.

1941
01:43:41,000 --> 01:43:42,000
You know what I mean?

1942
01:43:42,000 --> 01:43:45,200
It's just, I just, what I learned in the fire department at that point, it's just the way

1943
01:43:45,200 --> 01:43:46,200
it is.

1944
01:43:46,200 --> 01:43:48,000
And I was in there, I was in the volunteers.

1945
01:43:48,000 --> 01:43:49,720
I was a couple of years, maybe five years.

1946
01:43:49,720 --> 01:43:55,040
I don't remember how long it was, but anyway, I came to expect this is the kind of stuff

1947
01:43:55,040 --> 01:43:56,040
it's going to be.

1948
01:43:56,040 --> 01:43:57,280
And I'm like, what is this?

1949
01:43:57,280 --> 01:43:59,960
And the one girl comes up and she's like, just yelling and screaming.

1950
01:43:59,960 --> 01:44:01,200
I'm like, all right, well what happened?

1951
01:44:01,200 --> 01:44:02,200
They're like, Oh, it's Josh.

1952
01:44:02,200 --> 01:44:03,200
And I'm like, Josh who?

1953
01:44:03,200 --> 01:44:04,200
And she's like, Josh Rappacante.

1954
01:44:04,200 --> 01:44:07,600
And I'm like, well, where is it?

1955
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:09,200
And they're like, he's right there.

1956
01:44:09,200 --> 01:44:10,200
And she's like yelling and screaming.

1957
01:44:10,200 --> 01:44:12,480
She's running around and I'm like, what are you doing here?

1958
01:44:12,480 --> 01:44:14,280
She goes, well, I was in the car and I got thrown in the field.

1959
01:44:14,280 --> 01:44:17,000
And I'm like, what?

1960
01:44:17,000 --> 01:44:18,000
She's like, yeah, I got ejected.

1961
01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:20,200
I'm like, well, Jesus Christ, go sit down.

1962
01:44:20,200 --> 01:44:22,440
So come up, got Josh that I was friends with.

1963
01:44:22,440 --> 01:44:23,820
We hung out.

1964
01:44:23,820 --> 01:44:28,880
My friend, Raleigh, we all hung out together, party, drank, all that stuff.

1965
01:44:28,880 --> 01:44:34,240
And now he's in the middle of the road, obviously, in my opinion, obviously dead.

1966
01:44:34,240 --> 01:44:37,520
And we all were kind of like working on them, kind of doing everything.

1967
01:44:37,520 --> 01:44:41,120
The other crew was up with the other guy that I knew they were getting him ready.

1968
01:44:41,120 --> 01:44:42,200
He was going to get airlifted.

1969
01:44:42,200 --> 01:44:44,080
The girl that was running around, she was going to get airlifted.

1970
01:44:44,080 --> 01:44:48,040
They had another priority for obvious party for covered.

1971
01:44:48,040 --> 01:44:52,760
And this guy, Josh, who was in my opinion, obvious priority for, but I remember one of

1972
01:44:52,760 --> 01:44:56,560
the people there saying, well, out of respect, we need to work him.

1973
01:44:56,560 --> 01:44:59,560
And I remember being an officer thinking that's not right.

1974
01:44:59,560 --> 01:45:06,580
But I can understand the respect thing of working him.

1975
01:45:06,580 --> 01:45:08,680
So I'm like, okay.

1976
01:45:08,680 --> 01:45:13,720
And this other person that made the decision has more time on, he was a chief level officer.

1977
01:45:13,720 --> 01:45:18,680
So I mean, I kind of thought if it was me, I'd want them to do everything.

1978
01:45:18,680 --> 01:45:20,280
I know that's what my family would want.

1979
01:45:20,280 --> 01:45:26,800
So I don't disagree with it, worked them, but he didn't make it.

1980
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:29,200
So it was a double fatal.

1981
01:45:29,200 --> 01:45:33,640
And I haven't thought about this call in a very, very long time.

1982
01:45:33,640 --> 01:45:43,640
And it also reminded me that I'm working in a community or volunteering in a community

1983
01:45:43,640 --> 01:45:45,760
where I know a lot of people because I grew up in this community.

1984
01:45:45,760 --> 01:45:47,760
I grew up in this area.

1985
01:45:47,760 --> 01:45:50,800
Calvert County is not a big place, there's a decent amount of people back then.

1986
01:45:50,800 --> 01:45:54,320
I mean, I don't know how populated it is now, but back then there were a lot of people,

1987
01:45:54,320 --> 01:45:57,120
but it wasn't a lot.

1988
01:45:57,120 --> 01:46:00,540
They could tell you there's 10,000 people live in Calvert County, but everyone still

1989
01:46:00,540 --> 01:46:01,740
knows everyone.

1990
01:46:01,740 --> 01:46:03,540
Everyone sees everyone.

1991
01:46:03,540 --> 01:46:04,540
You know what I mean?

1992
01:46:04,540 --> 01:46:08,240
Excuse me, I couldn't go into Calvert County back then without seeing somebody I knew everywhere

1993
01:46:08,240 --> 01:46:10,360
I went every time.

1994
01:46:10,360 --> 01:46:12,320
Gas station, grocery store, it didn't matter.

1995
01:46:12,320 --> 01:46:19,960
So yeah, so back to this call, I didn't expect that.

1996
01:46:19,960 --> 01:46:21,720
These are guys that I see and hang out with all the time.

1997
01:46:21,720 --> 01:46:27,840
And now two of them are, one of them is dead and the other guy is getting airlifted somewhere.

1998
01:46:27,840 --> 01:46:32,520
I wasn't super, super close with them, but you see them regularly, hang out with them

1999
01:46:32,520 --> 01:46:33,520
regularly.

2000
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:35,760
We just weren't close, close friends.

2001
01:46:35,760 --> 01:46:39,040
But what do I immediately do?

2002
01:46:39,040 --> 01:46:41,400
I immediately personify, or not personify.

2003
01:46:41,400 --> 01:46:44,640
I immediately become relatable to that because I did the same thing on this exact same hill

2004
01:46:44,640 --> 01:46:45,640
with my car.

2005
01:46:45,640 --> 01:46:51,120
If I remember correctly, I think I might've done it within a couple of days, quite frankly.

2006
01:46:51,120 --> 01:46:56,320
And if I remember right, it was close to his house and I think his family showed up and

2007
01:46:56,320 --> 01:46:59,520
he was obviously dead on the road.

2008
01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:06,440
So it was just, I remember that being pretty, pretty tough as far as just like one of those

2009
01:47:06,440 --> 01:47:09,560
things where you don't really realize what you're getting yourself into until you're

2010
01:47:09,560 --> 01:47:14,600
two feet deep or you're 10 feet deep into it or two feet into it or whatever.

2011
01:47:14,600 --> 01:47:19,880
And this was the one call where I was expecting joking, dark humor.

2012
01:47:19,880 --> 01:47:30,200
And there was, I mean, everybody was just like, you know, so it was tough.

2013
01:47:30,200 --> 01:47:35,920
But on the flip side of it, and not to be super negative, on the flip side of it, it

2014
01:47:35,920 --> 01:47:40,600
was kind of cool being a volunteer firefighter in the neighborhood and the area that I worked

2015
01:47:40,600 --> 01:47:42,800
in because people are like, hey man, I'm proud of you.

2016
01:47:42,800 --> 01:47:45,920
You're doing a great job or thanks you guys for what you do.

2017
01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:46,920
Like you laugh and joke.

2018
01:47:46,920 --> 01:47:52,400
And, you know, I mean, there was a little bit of flirting with some girls on calls.

2019
01:47:52,400 --> 01:47:54,240
Like, of course we're going to do that.

2020
01:47:54,240 --> 01:47:58,560
You know, like I think I ended up dating a girl that I met on a call that we ran.

2021
01:47:58,560 --> 01:48:01,640
She was a hairdresser and she ended up being crazy, but whatever.

2022
01:48:01,640 --> 01:48:04,480
But anyway, I mean, you know how they are.

2023
01:48:04,480 --> 01:48:05,480
No, I'm kidding.

2024
01:48:05,480 --> 01:48:09,520
I met her on a call and it just all kidding aside, like it was, it was funny.

2025
01:48:09,520 --> 01:48:10,840
So I remember talking to her.

2026
01:48:10,840 --> 01:48:14,760
She was kind of, you know, giggling a little bit and I kind of laughed or whatever.

2027
01:48:14,760 --> 01:48:16,960
And I didn't really think a whole lot of it.

2028
01:48:16,960 --> 01:48:21,980
And then all of a sudden she pops up on Facebook and finds me and it's like, Hey, I think you

2029
01:48:21,980 --> 01:48:22,980
came to my work.

2030
01:48:22,980 --> 01:48:23,980
We should hang out sometime.

2031
01:48:23,980 --> 01:48:27,920
And that was, I mean, you know, teenage guy.

2032
01:48:27,920 --> 01:48:31,920
Like I think I was 16, 17 at that point.

2033
01:48:31,920 --> 01:48:34,640
No, I think I was older.

2034
01:48:34,640 --> 01:48:36,560
I think I was 19, 18.

2035
01:48:36,560 --> 01:48:37,560
Yeah.

2036
01:48:37,560 --> 01:48:38,560
She was, yeah.

2037
01:48:38,560 --> 01:48:40,880
Cause she was like a few years older than me.

2038
01:48:40,880 --> 01:48:41,880
I had to be 18.

2039
01:48:41,880 --> 01:48:45,240
But anyway, so we hung out all the time, like, and you know, it was kind of dating this chick

2040
01:48:45,240 --> 01:48:49,720
for a while and it was all because of that, you know, back to the volunteer firehouse

2041
01:48:49,720 --> 01:48:54,160
friend lifelong friendships that I have are come all back there.

2042
01:48:54,160 --> 01:48:56,080
The mentors that I had all come back to that.

2043
01:48:56,080 --> 01:48:58,260
And they were all people that lived in the community.

2044
01:48:58,260 --> 01:49:01,400
You know, one of the guys that I was pretty good friends with owns a grocery store on

2045
01:49:01,400 --> 01:49:03,880
the top of the hill called bones grocery.

2046
01:49:03,880 --> 01:49:07,440
You know, like they're, you know, your gross or one guy worked at a bank.

2047
01:49:07,440 --> 01:49:13,040
The other dude did construction and then they're all community tied somehow.

2048
01:49:13,040 --> 01:49:17,860
And then they hang out at the volunteer firehouses, chiefs and captains and volunteer firefighters

2049
01:49:17,860 --> 01:49:20,240
and you know, all that kind of stuff too.

2050
01:49:20,240 --> 01:49:21,240
And it was, it was kind of cool.

2051
01:49:21,240 --> 01:49:22,960
You get a big mix of the community.

2052
01:49:22,960 --> 01:49:27,040
And then I think when you have that and then you go out into your community, you know who

2053
01:49:27,040 --> 01:49:29,200
they are, they know who you are.

2054
01:49:29,200 --> 01:49:35,040
You get that connection that I don't think you get in a non-community based department.

2055
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:42,080
And why I say that is when you have that connection and you kind of internalize it and you think

2056
01:49:42,080 --> 01:49:44,840
of it, you know, it's, it's different.

2057
01:49:44,840 --> 01:49:46,400
You know, like it hits different.

2058
01:49:46,400 --> 01:49:50,240
I don't know if that's the right way to say that, but like you get a sense of this is

2059
01:49:50,240 --> 01:49:51,680
my community.

2060
01:49:51,680 --> 01:49:56,560
I'm here to serve my community that I'm a part of, you know, like, you know what I'm

2061
01:49:56,560 --> 01:49:57,560
saying?

2062
01:49:57,560 --> 01:49:58,560
Oh, absolutely.

2063
01:49:58,560 --> 01:50:00,160
And I think there's, there's pros and cons.

2064
01:50:00,160 --> 01:50:05,780
Like you said, there's that pride, there's that, you know, service of in your actual

2065
01:50:05,780 --> 01:50:07,800
area that you, that you live in.

2066
01:50:07,800 --> 01:50:12,600
But then I think it's important that we discuss, you know, the other side of that as well,

2067
01:50:12,600 --> 01:50:18,280
that we give our volunteers access to resources that might, they might need because yeah,

2068
01:50:18,280 --> 01:50:23,000
if I go from, you know, if I live in Huntington beach, who I did for a while and I work in

2069
01:50:23,000 --> 01:50:28,840
Anaheim, you know, I'm at that point, like 20, 30 minutes drive away.

2070
01:50:28,840 --> 01:50:30,840
So I'm, you know, I'm not from there originally.

2071
01:50:30,840 --> 01:50:32,160
So I'm not running on people I know.

2072
01:50:32,160 --> 01:50:36,600
So I can have the most horrific accidents, which we did over and over and over again,

2073
01:50:36,600 --> 01:50:39,280
but it's still, there isn't that emotional attachment.

2074
01:50:39,280 --> 01:50:43,840
Now all of a sudden I'm a volunteer in New Jersey or Maryland and I'm running on my high

2075
01:50:43,840 --> 01:50:44,840
school friends.

2076
01:50:44,840 --> 01:50:46,560
That's a very different impact.

2077
01:50:46,560 --> 01:50:50,280
And then you add in that I'm also only 17 years old.

2078
01:50:50,280 --> 01:50:56,360
These are really important conversations because that will have an impact and services is important.

2079
01:50:56,360 --> 01:51:00,800
But what I talk about all the time on the podcast is if we're going to ask, you know,

2080
01:51:00,800 --> 01:51:06,720
and I'm a big, I'm a big advocate for making as many fire departments career as well.

2081
01:51:06,720 --> 01:51:10,040
Like there's a lot of places now that are hugely populated that rely on volunteers.

2082
01:51:10,040 --> 01:51:11,280
I think that's wrong.

2083
01:51:11,280 --> 01:51:14,560
You should pay them to be a fire department, you know, personally, but if you live out

2084
01:51:14,560 --> 01:51:18,600
in somewhere remote, then we need to take care of them.

2085
01:51:18,600 --> 01:51:23,180
You know, you are asking these people to be awake for 24 hours and, you know, and run

2086
01:51:23,180 --> 01:51:25,040
on people's worst days.

2087
01:51:25,040 --> 01:51:28,940
Then whether it's a work week in the career and you guys do 24 72, I think that should

2088
01:51:28,940 --> 01:51:30,760
be a national standard personally.

2089
01:51:30,760 --> 01:51:31,760
It's insanity.

2090
01:51:31,760 --> 01:51:32,760
Yeah, exactly.

2091
01:51:32,760 --> 01:51:35,960
I haven't met a person that hates it yet.

2092
01:51:35,960 --> 01:51:39,240
But then the same with our volunteers, the people are going to do it, you know, because

2093
01:51:39,240 --> 01:51:42,160
they are truly in a rural area and remote.

2094
01:51:42,160 --> 01:51:43,160
Yeah.

2095
01:51:43,160 --> 01:51:47,960
Then when they run on for free, we've got to make sure that we as a, as a village, a

2096
01:51:47,960 --> 01:51:53,040
town, you know, whatever we're, you know, a township that we acknowledge the impact

2097
01:51:53,040 --> 01:51:55,920
of that and we take care of our volunteer first responders.

2098
01:51:55,920 --> 01:51:57,520
Yeah, no, definitely.

2099
01:51:57,520 --> 01:52:00,780
And I think that connection is something you can still develop over time.

2100
01:52:00,780 --> 01:52:05,040
Like the department I work for, I never lived in the county that I work in.

2101
01:52:05,040 --> 01:52:10,560
I live an hour and a half out of it right now, but I'm very proud when I, when I go

2102
01:52:10,560 --> 01:52:15,160
to where I work in the neighborhood that I'm assigned, I'm very proud of that neighborhood.

2103
01:52:15,160 --> 01:52:18,240
I'm proud to be able to help those people.

2104
01:52:18,240 --> 01:52:24,100
And you know, I, my whole job is I'm, we're there to help them when they can't help themselves.

2105
01:52:24,100 --> 01:52:27,960
And I hear people jokingly say a lot of the times all they need is an adult.

2106
01:52:27,960 --> 01:52:30,040
Well, that's you're who they look up to.

2107
01:52:30,040 --> 01:52:34,720
I mean, right, wrong or indifferent grown ass man, not being able to do his own thing

2108
01:52:34,720 --> 01:52:40,680
or a, you know, somebody that's so sick, they don't know what else to do.

2109
01:52:40,680 --> 01:52:41,800
That's just what it is.

2110
01:52:41,800 --> 01:52:42,800
It sucks.

2111
01:52:42,800 --> 01:52:45,080
Sometimes you're tired and you don't want to do it, but whatever.

2112
01:52:45,080 --> 01:52:48,920
I take a lot of pride in being able to be the, I like being the answer.

2113
01:52:48,920 --> 01:52:50,920
If that makes sense, maybe that's the right way to, I don't know.

2114
01:52:50,920 --> 01:52:54,780
I think it's the first time I've said it that way, but I like to be the answer.

2115
01:52:54,780 --> 01:52:57,000
You know, I take a lot of pride in being able to work there.

2116
01:52:57,000 --> 01:53:00,960
And I think, you know, people have their own opinions of the department and what, you know,

2117
01:53:00,960 --> 01:53:06,320
all those things, but you know, I've been there 17 years and that's my department.

2118
01:53:06,320 --> 01:53:07,320
That's where I work.

2119
01:53:07,320 --> 01:53:09,480
Those are the people I serve and those are the people that I help.

2120
01:53:09,480 --> 01:53:14,160
And you know, I take a lot of pride in it, even if it's not in such a great period of

2121
01:53:14,160 --> 01:53:18,360
time right now, you know, and I think when you have that attachment and you care, you

2122
01:53:18,360 --> 01:53:22,800
don't have to live there and you don't have to be from the community to give a shit.

2123
01:53:22,800 --> 01:53:24,320
You just have to care.

2124
01:53:24,320 --> 01:53:26,160
And I think sometimes that can be lost.

2125
01:53:26,160 --> 01:53:31,640
I think people look at it as, you know, they come down to a certain county in Maryland

2126
01:53:31,640 --> 01:53:32,920
and they're like, I want to go to fires.

2127
01:53:32,920 --> 01:53:34,360
Well, this county goes to a lot of fires.

2128
01:53:34,360 --> 01:53:35,360
Let's go there.

2129
01:53:35,360 --> 01:53:37,740
Well, that's good.

2130
01:53:37,740 --> 01:53:39,640
But that's when people don't have that connection.

2131
01:53:39,640 --> 01:53:45,960
Whereas if you're there as a career and you're there 15, 20, 25 years, you know, you may

2132
01:53:45,960 --> 01:53:48,120
not be from the community, but this is your community.

2133
01:53:48,120 --> 01:53:49,280
And that's kind of the way I look at it.

2134
01:53:49,280 --> 01:53:53,480
I mean, there's a lot of cultural things that I was never exposed to until I started working

2135
01:53:53,480 --> 01:53:54,480
in my department.

2136
01:53:54,480 --> 01:54:01,160
And you know, some people found it funny when I tried different cultural things and, you

2137
01:54:01,160 --> 01:54:03,840
know, I was a fish out of water from a lot of them.

2138
01:54:03,840 --> 01:54:07,320
And you know, it made me appreciate it more because you understand where they're coming

2139
01:54:07,320 --> 01:54:08,320
from.

2140
01:54:08,320 --> 01:54:13,040
You understand the cultural differences and how different people and different societies

2141
01:54:13,040 --> 01:54:17,640
melt into a community and that you have to know what they expect.

2142
01:54:17,640 --> 01:54:22,480
So when you go to answer that call to help them, you can do your best to respect those

2143
01:54:22,480 --> 01:54:23,480
things.

2144
01:54:23,480 --> 01:54:26,320
Like there's a certain community you have to take your shoes off.

2145
01:54:26,320 --> 01:54:29,280
There's communities where women do, men are not allowed to talk to women.

2146
01:54:29,280 --> 01:54:30,440
They talk to the husband.

2147
01:54:30,440 --> 01:54:31,480
They talk to the son.

2148
01:54:31,480 --> 01:54:33,520
That's just the way it is.

2149
01:54:33,520 --> 01:54:36,960
And if you don't understand, walk in there and understand that and respect that, it can

2150
01:54:36,960 --> 01:54:37,960
create problems.

2151
01:54:37,960 --> 01:54:42,680
And when you have that connection of I work here, I've been here for 10 years, 15 years,

2152
01:54:42,680 --> 01:54:48,160
whatever, I know this section of the neighborhood is this way and you do it from the from Jump

2153
01:54:48,160 --> 01:54:49,160
Street.

2154
01:54:49,160 --> 01:54:50,160
That's pride in it.

2155
01:54:50,160 --> 01:54:53,760
That's, you know, having that connection in that community that you work, even though

2156
01:54:53,760 --> 01:54:57,240
you don't really live there.

2157
01:54:57,240 --> 01:55:01,360
When you're talking about all this, I'm thinking about a couple of places where I worked.

2158
01:55:01,360 --> 01:55:05,560
So Anaheim, I was at Station One for most of my career.

2159
01:55:05,560 --> 01:55:11,200
In Orange County, I was at Station 70 for most of my career at that point.

2160
01:55:11,200 --> 01:55:15,760
And you know, you start to know the people, you know, the first you, you know, the roads,

2161
01:55:15,760 --> 01:55:21,000
you know, the target hazards, you know, like, for example, Anaheim, there was this mad professor

2162
01:55:21,000 --> 01:55:24,680
and he would test all these these products.

2163
01:55:24,680 --> 01:55:26,240
So I'm making a new umbrella.

2164
01:55:26,240 --> 01:55:28,000
I want to see, will it last for five years?

2165
01:55:28,000 --> 01:55:31,360
And he had machines and chemicals and stuff that could do that.

2166
01:55:31,360 --> 01:55:38,040
But he also had a young lady living in this factory, you know, and there was bees in the

2167
01:55:38,040 --> 01:55:39,040
back and you know what I mean?

2168
01:55:39,040 --> 01:55:42,880
So you're only going to know that if you actually work there and do fire inspections and really

2169
01:55:42,880 --> 01:55:43,880
invested.

2170
01:55:43,880 --> 01:55:44,880
Yeah.

2171
01:55:44,880 --> 01:55:50,760
And so when I hear, oh, they're moving people around, they're moving people, you know, to

2172
01:55:50,760 --> 01:55:52,920
break up the crews and all that stuff.

2173
01:55:52,920 --> 01:55:57,840
I think that is the fucking worst idea in the fire service to move people for the sake

2174
01:55:57,840 --> 01:56:02,040
of moving people, because you do build up such a rapport and you know that this is a

2175
01:56:02,040 --> 01:56:03,200
Muslim community.

2176
01:56:03,200 --> 01:56:07,080
So you're not, you know, you've got to be careful on if you're transporting who's in

2177
01:56:07,080 --> 01:56:09,800
the back and what patient contact looks like.

2178
01:56:09,800 --> 01:56:14,160
And you've got this community where we've got people that actually speak this language

2179
01:56:14,160 --> 01:56:15,160
is going to help here.

2180
01:56:15,160 --> 01:56:20,240
You know, we've got a lot of Haitians in Orlando and I speak French somewhat, you know, so

2181
01:56:20,240 --> 01:56:21,720
I was able to help a lot of those.

2182
01:56:21,720 --> 01:56:24,100
So what is your perspective of that?

2183
01:56:24,100 --> 01:56:29,760
Because to me, there's so much value in embedding a crew in an area.

2184
01:56:29,760 --> 01:56:31,560
Yeah, no, definitely.

2185
01:56:31,560 --> 01:56:35,960
And I think the biggest thing you need to embed in them as well, because sometimes those

2186
01:56:35,960 --> 01:56:38,360
movements are going to be out of your control, right?

2187
01:56:38,360 --> 01:56:39,360
It's just, it is what it is.

2188
01:56:39,360 --> 01:56:42,040
It's kind of, unfortunately, it's the nature of the beast.

2189
01:56:42,040 --> 01:56:46,380
But I think when you, the biggest thing to embed before any of that, those scenarios

2190
01:56:46,380 --> 01:56:51,400
are, you know, for me, and I mean, kind of speaking for you a little bit as well, because

2191
01:56:51,400 --> 01:56:53,680
you worked at Anaheim, I'm a professional firefighter.

2192
01:56:53,680 --> 01:56:54,680
Put me where you need me to.

2193
01:56:54,680 --> 01:56:55,680
I don't care.

2194
01:56:55,680 --> 01:56:56,680
Whatever.

2195
01:56:56,680 --> 01:56:57,680
I'm going to do my job.

2196
01:56:57,680 --> 01:56:59,320
I'm going to do it the right way.

2197
01:56:59,320 --> 01:57:03,640
And if I'm in this scenario where there's a lot of people speaking French, am I going

2198
01:57:03,640 --> 01:57:04,640
to learn French?

2199
01:57:04,640 --> 01:57:05,840
Probably not.

2200
01:57:05,840 --> 01:57:11,240
Am I going to learn the cultural nuances and knowing, you know, the likelihood of young

2201
01:57:11,240 --> 01:57:13,680
kids knowing how to speak English and French?

2202
01:57:13,680 --> 01:57:14,680
Yes.

2203
01:57:14,680 --> 01:57:19,680
Am I going to walk in with the correct body language attitude, a nice smile, good morning,

2204
01:57:19,680 --> 01:57:23,680
good morning, and behavior and using that professional firefighter mentality of adapting,

2205
01:57:23,680 --> 01:57:27,560
overcome and using my resources and being open-minded, regardless of how tired I am

2206
01:57:27,560 --> 01:57:30,680
or how many calls we've had to know to look for those kids.

2207
01:57:30,680 --> 01:57:33,600
Hey, little Billy, do you speak English?

2208
01:57:33,600 --> 01:57:34,600
Yes, I speak English.

2209
01:57:34,600 --> 01:57:36,040
Does your mom only speak French?

2210
01:57:36,040 --> 01:57:37,040
Yes.

2211
01:57:37,040 --> 01:57:38,880
Can you talk to her in French for me?

2212
01:57:38,880 --> 01:57:42,920
Ask her X, Y, and Z. And that's your link.

2213
01:57:42,920 --> 01:57:46,600
Hey, you walk in, you read the room.

2214
01:57:46,600 --> 01:57:50,900
There's a female and the husband comes to you and steps between you and her and she

2215
01:57:50,900 --> 01:57:53,240
starts talking to you and you say, can I ask her a question?

2216
01:57:53,240 --> 01:57:55,560
He says, no.

2217
01:57:55,560 --> 01:57:57,440
Professional firefighter, adapt.

2218
01:57:57,440 --> 01:57:58,440
Okay.

2219
01:57:58,440 --> 01:58:01,920
Well, we can't help her if I can't talk to her.

2220
01:58:01,920 --> 01:58:06,380
If we can't get any information out of her, it's going to be hard to help her.

2221
01:58:06,380 --> 01:58:08,840
Can you at least ask her X, Y, and Z?

2222
01:58:08,840 --> 01:58:15,440
Or you can even walk into a situation where they have immediate attitude, don't want you

2223
01:58:15,440 --> 01:58:16,440
to be there.

2224
01:58:16,440 --> 01:58:17,440
Okay.

2225
01:58:17,440 --> 01:58:20,400
They're being very conflictive and they don't let you do anything.

2226
01:58:20,400 --> 01:58:21,560
You got to deescalate that situation.

2227
01:58:21,560 --> 01:58:24,280
You're a professional firefighter and you have to make the situation work.

2228
01:58:24,280 --> 01:58:26,880
It doesn't matter if you don't like the card you're dealt or the card that you're dealt,

2229
01:58:26,880 --> 01:58:28,680
it's not fun to deal with.

2230
01:58:28,680 --> 01:58:32,320
And I think that's where you start with it is understanding and having that mentality

2231
01:58:32,320 --> 01:58:34,760
of, I'm a professional firefighter.

2232
01:58:34,760 --> 01:58:38,680
I'm going to make this work, whether I like it or not, whether I have all the best scenario

2233
01:58:38,680 --> 01:58:42,280
or not, and I have all the tools in my toolboxes or not.

2234
01:58:42,280 --> 01:58:44,120
I may or may not have them.

2235
01:58:44,120 --> 01:58:50,440
And when you have that mentality, you can learn how to work through those scenarios

2236
01:58:50,440 --> 01:58:51,640
and those cultures.

2237
01:58:51,640 --> 01:58:55,720
You can learn the strengths and weaknesses of those you work with and work around every

2238
01:58:55,720 --> 01:58:56,720
day.

2239
01:58:56,720 --> 01:58:58,360
You know the five guys, the four guys you work with.

2240
01:58:58,360 --> 01:59:00,240
You know their strengths and weaknesses.

2241
01:59:00,240 --> 01:59:01,720
They know your strengths and weaknesses.

2242
01:59:01,720 --> 01:59:05,640
And you figure out ways to balance each other out to where as a team you're successful.

2243
01:59:05,640 --> 01:59:11,880
And when you take that mentality and that style, no matter where you put it, as long

2244
01:59:11,880 --> 01:59:18,200
as you have like-minded individuals, which I am beyond lucky to have on my shift, you

2245
01:59:18,200 --> 01:59:20,720
put us anywhere, we're going to figure it out and adapt.

2246
01:59:20,720 --> 01:59:22,820
And I think that's the whole point.

2247
01:59:22,820 --> 01:59:26,320
So at the individual level, if you have the mentality of, I'm a professional firefighter,

2248
01:59:26,320 --> 01:59:27,320
I'm going to be open-minded.

2249
01:59:27,320 --> 01:59:29,360
I'm going to do my best.

2250
01:59:29,360 --> 01:59:33,240
Even if they move you around, and even if the guys you work with may or may not be on

2251
01:59:33,240 --> 01:59:38,920
the same mental space, maybe your actions can influence them as well.

2252
01:59:38,920 --> 01:59:43,800
But ultimately, I think when you default to professionalism and you default to being adaptable

2253
01:59:43,800 --> 01:59:48,320
and you default to having the mindset that I talked about, I think that's going to give

2254
01:59:48,320 --> 01:59:53,040
you your best scenario and your best chance in the event that they just move people just

2255
01:59:53,040 --> 01:59:54,040
to move people.

2256
01:59:54,040 --> 01:59:56,080
I mean, I don't agree with moving just to move.

2257
01:59:56,080 --> 02:00:01,480
I don't agree with shaking up commands and battalions and shifts just to do it.

2258
02:00:01,480 --> 02:00:05,320
I think if anyone that's spent any time in the field not sitting behind a desk will understand

2259
02:00:05,320 --> 02:00:10,400
why if you have crews that have a good thing going for themselves, you leave it alone.

2260
02:00:10,400 --> 02:00:13,920
Because when you leave them alone, they can make you look good.

2261
02:00:13,920 --> 02:00:17,920
They can make your life better and they can make your job easier as a manager and as a

2262
02:00:17,920 --> 02:00:22,200
chief, or not a manager, as management.

2263
02:00:22,200 --> 02:00:25,320
Because what the public will see is good stuff.

2264
02:00:25,320 --> 02:00:26,920
So that makes you look good.

2265
02:00:26,920 --> 02:00:30,780
And even probably will make your life easier because now you're not continuously having

2266
02:00:30,780 --> 02:00:35,080
to watch over crews that don't know what they're doing, can't jive, they don't mix, and they

2267
02:00:35,080 --> 02:00:40,880
don't have the ability to have that level of service delivery.

2268
02:00:40,880 --> 02:00:43,440
Absolutely.

2269
02:00:43,440 --> 02:00:47,960
So you enter the career, the professional career fire service.

2270
02:00:47,960 --> 02:00:50,220
Obviously, we're almost two hours now.

2271
02:00:50,220 --> 02:00:52,080
So I'm not going to dive deeply into that.

2272
02:00:52,080 --> 02:00:57,000
But what I do want to take away when I was listening to you talking about, you know,

2273
02:00:57,000 --> 02:01:00,480
your leadership journey, and obviously you have tip of the spear, excuse me, tip of the

2274
02:01:00,480 --> 02:01:07,720
spear leadership going now, I was struck by, I would argue, an essential part of anyone

2275
02:01:07,720 --> 02:01:09,400
who stands up and talks leadership.

2276
02:01:09,400 --> 02:01:15,200
There's a lot of people that yap on social media, you know, and some of them can't even

2277
02:01:15,200 --> 02:01:17,400
own their own fitness, for example.

2278
02:01:17,400 --> 02:01:20,920
So when you're up there telling me about, you know, leadership, you need to do this,

2279
02:01:20,920 --> 02:01:23,200
it's like, well, let's start in the fridge.

2280
02:01:23,200 --> 02:01:25,400
Come back to me when you figure that out.

2281
02:01:25,400 --> 02:01:27,160
But you know, this the humility.

2282
02:01:27,160 --> 02:01:32,640
It's the fact that, you know, I have I have made all these failures and I've navigated

2283
02:01:32,640 --> 02:01:37,060
some of these hurdles and had the humility to reassess and figure out and try and grow

2284
02:01:37,060 --> 02:01:38,180
from that.

2285
02:01:38,180 --> 02:01:43,040
And someone that really stands out in my mind is Navy SEAL Jason Redman.

2286
02:01:43,040 --> 02:01:47,240
He lost an eye in this massive, you know, horrendous firefight where he was almost killed.

2287
02:01:47,240 --> 02:01:50,220
And I believe some of his men were killed.

2288
02:01:50,220 --> 02:01:53,560
But so you start his book and you're, oh, it's going to be about combat and all this

2289
02:01:53,560 --> 02:01:54,560
stuff.

2290
02:01:54,560 --> 02:01:56,120
He barely mentions that.

2291
02:01:56,120 --> 02:01:59,040
What he talks about is his epic failures as a leader.

2292
02:01:59,040 --> 02:02:01,980
And then when you look at them, they're not even that epic, really.

2293
02:02:01,980 --> 02:02:08,160
But the humility to have such a powerful story that you could kind of go down that road and

2294
02:02:08,160 --> 02:02:15,440
talk about leadership and overcoming the physical and emotional elements of his of his wounds

2295
02:02:15,440 --> 02:02:17,720
or his that be wounds.

2296
02:02:17,720 --> 02:02:20,160
Yeah, his wounds, isn't it?

2297
02:02:20,160 --> 02:02:23,600
Yeah, because I know you don't call them injuries in the military, but it's not.

2298
02:02:23,600 --> 02:02:29,580
I mean, this man is so down to earth and so humble and a true leader because he made mistakes

2299
02:02:29,580 --> 02:02:32,460
when he was a young leader, as we all do.

2300
02:02:32,460 --> 02:02:36,840
So walk me through, you know, kind of overview of your fire service journey.

2301
02:02:36,840 --> 02:02:41,160
You mentioned obviously the alcohol as well, so it can include personal.

2302
02:02:41,160 --> 02:02:48,080
But you know, what were the lows that ultimately resulted in a growth in your own leadership

2303
02:02:48,080 --> 02:02:53,620
and then the desire to actually spread some of the lessons that you've learned and try

2304
02:02:53,620 --> 02:02:55,480
and help others in the fire service?

2305
02:02:55,480 --> 02:02:56,480
Yeah.

2306
02:02:56,480 --> 02:03:02,720
So I think backing up to the book a little bit, I think, Matt, the whole point behind

2307
02:03:02,720 --> 02:03:04,720
that book, I haven't read the book.

2308
02:03:04,720 --> 02:03:07,900
I know who you're talking about, and I've listened to him on a few different podcasts

2309
02:03:07,900 --> 02:03:10,080
and some other stuff that he's done.

2310
02:03:10,080 --> 02:03:13,920
And I think it's a matter of what your message is.

2311
02:03:13,920 --> 02:03:15,640
And why you're doing what you're doing.

2312
02:03:15,640 --> 02:03:20,880
So I think especially social media and you talked about people talking about leadership,

2313
02:03:20,880 --> 02:03:24,640
but they can't figure out what's in the fridge.

2314
02:03:24,640 --> 02:03:28,600
It's kind of funny to me the way you said that, because I know what you're getting at.

2315
02:03:28,600 --> 02:03:30,720
And it's kind of like, well, wait a minute, if you can't take care of yourself, how are

2316
02:03:30,720 --> 02:03:32,320
you going to take care of anybody else?

2317
02:03:32,320 --> 02:03:33,320
Right.

2318
02:03:33,320 --> 02:03:34,320
That's the biggest thing.

2319
02:03:34,320 --> 02:03:40,100
I think people find themselves trying to sell a product or push a product, but not understand

2320
02:03:40,100 --> 02:03:42,200
what the message is.

2321
02:03:42,200 --> 02:03:47,340
And I think when you stand up and you talk about leadership, I hear a lot of people saying,

2322
02:03:47,340 --> 02:03:49,520
you should do this, you should do that.

2323
02:03:49,520 --> 02:03:50,680
This is what this is.

2324
02:03:50,680 --> 02:03:52,440
This is what that is.

2325
02:03:52,440 --> 02:03:56,320
And then they start quoting books and they start quoting podcasts and they start quoting

2326
02:03:56,320 --> 02:03:58,480
all these things.

2327
02:03:58,480 --> 02:04:05,260
All of those things are their perspectives, their experiences.

2328
02:04:05,260 --> 02:04:08,360
Their experience isn't going to be your experience.

2329
02:04:08,360 --> 02:04:14,960
James can be the brand new lieutenant today on engine one in Anaheim, go through 10 years.

2330
02:04:14,960 --> 02:04:19,560
And I could be the new lieutenant on engine two in Anaheim and go through 10 years and

2331
02:04:19,560 --> 02:04:22,000
we will be nowhere near each other.

2332
02:04:22,000 --> 02:04:27,800
And experience calls, people, interactions, our personal life, my wife left me, your wife

2333
02:04:27,800 --> 02:04:30,120
left you.

2334
02:04:30,120 --> 02:04:31,120
We're both still married.

2335
02:04:31,120 --> 02:04:36,440
Neither one of us got married, but we got kids without marriages and baby mamas and all

2336
02:04:36,440 --> 02:04:37,440
that crap.

2337
02:04:37,440 --> 02:04:39,320
I think it's all, they're all going to be different.

2338
02:04:39,320 --> 02:04:42,200
Oh, everything's going to be set completely different.

2339
02:04:42,200 --> 02:04:46,960
And when you have a tone of a book that says leadership is this, leadership is that, this

2340
02:04:46,960 --> 02:04:51,640
is this, this is that, and they're niche into military, it's probably going to be relatable

2341
02:04:51,640 --> 02:04:53,680
for the military.

2342
02:04:53,680 --> 02:05:00,520
Military is similar to the fire department when it comes to the human interaction, when

2343
02:05:00,520 --> 02:05:04,440
it comes to humanity, when it comes to how people interact with each other and people

2344
02:05:04,440 --> 02:05:10,960
handle stress and death or not death, stress and failure.

2345
02:05:10,960 --> 02:05:19,160
When you put off the message of, I'm trying to think how to say this.

2346
02:05:19,160 --> 02:05:22,760
When you put off your perspective of this is what I did, I think you will gain more

2347
02:05:22,760 --> 02:05:23,760
traction.

2348
02:05:23,760 --> 02:05:26,800
I think these are my, this is my experience.

2349
02:05:26,800 --> 02:05:29,240
This is the stuff that I've been through.

2350
02:05:29,240 --> 02:05:34,680
And when you do that and you're sincere with yourself of what your message is, I think

2351
02:05:34,680 --> 02:05:37,720
the audience that you want will connect if they're relatable.

2352
02:05:37,720 --> 02:05:40,200
So Jaco is a great one.

2353
02:05:40,200 --> 02:05:44,880
I think Jaco hits a lot of humanity stuff, but he's extremely niche into military and

2354
02:05:44,880 --> 02:05:48,440
Navy SEAL stuff, which is good for military guys.

2355
02:05:48,440 --> 02:05:50,800
May not be great for us in the fire department.

2356
02:05:50,800 --> 02:05:52,960
It might, it might not.

2357
02:05:52,960 --> 02:06:00,440
But I feel like your experience of what you talk about and how you talk about it will

2358
02:06:00,440 --> 02:06:06,040
be your currency for relatability and for people wanting to follow you.

2359
02:06:06,040 --> 02:06:08,680
So what do I mean by that?

2360
02:06:08,680 --> 02:06:12,040
If I sit here and I talk to you as a guy, I was 17 years as a career firefighter, 10

2361
02:06:12,040 --> 02:06:14,480
years of being an officer and I've never been assigned to an office.

2362
02:06:14,480 --> 02:06:15,480
I've only worked in the field.

2363
02:06:15,480 --> 02:06:19,300
It's going to be much different than a guy that's a chief writing about being a fire

2364
02:06:19,300 --> 02:06:24,120
officer in 30 years of his experience and then you read about the guy and he's only

2365
02:06:24,120 --> 02:06:28,960
worked in an office or he works in some small fire department, 300 dudes and they don't

2366
02:06:28,960 --> 02:06:30,880
go to very many fire, like that kind of stuff.

2367
02:06:30,880 --> 02:06:32,800
Like you know who they are.

2368
02:06:32,800 --> 02:06:36,080
They're writers and publishers, which is great.

2369
02:06:36,080 --> 02:06:43,600
There's nothing wrong with that, but the masses of the fire service, I think are looking for

2370
02:06:43,600 --> 02:06:45,680
people that are just like them.

2371
02:06:45,680 --> 02:06:48,280
Like who's a regular guy?

2372
02:06:48,280 --> 02:06:54,320
Who's a guy that doesn't work in a fire department that runs a million calls a year and a hundred

2373
02:06:54,320 --> 02:06:55,320
fires a week?

2374
02:06:55,320 --> 02:06:57,480
Like I'm from the Midwest.

2375
02:06:57,480 --> 02:06:58,480
That's not going to work.

2376
02:06:58,480 --> 02:07:01,840
Like guys from the Midwest aren't going to look for metropolitan fire departments.

2377
02:07:01,840 --> 02:07:04,420
They're not because it doesn't apply to them.

2378
02:07:04,420 --> 02:07:05,420
Is it cool to read?

2379
02:07:05,420 --> 02:07:06,500
Is it very, very good?

2380
02:07:06,500 --> 02:07:08,880
It's fantastic and those writers are absolutely amazing.

2381
02:07:08,880 --> 02:07:14,080
I'm not saying they're not, but you know, do you really think a guy from Wyoming is

2382
02:07:14,080 --> 02:07:16,760
going to want to read about the New York City fire department and how they do stand pipe

2383
02:07:16,760 --> 02:07:17,760
operations?

2384
02:07:17,760 --> 02:07:21,600
Maybe not because it might not apply to them.

2385
02:07:21,600 --> 02:07:26,000
Would a guy from Philadelphia read a book from New York City?

2386
02:07:26,000 --> 02:07:29,000
No, because they have their own thing, right?

2387
02:07:29,000 --> 02:07:30,800
They're not.

2388
02:07:30,800 --> 02:07:34,720
When you dive into leadership and you're like, I am a company level dude.

2389
02:07:34,720 --> 02:07:36,580
I've worked on a fire truck.

2390
02:07:36,580 --> 02:07:39,200
This is what I do every day.

2391
02:07:39,200 --> 02:07:43,840
Any guy that rides a fire truck and is a company level officer, no matter where he is or she

2392
02:07:43,840 --> 02:07:47,520
is, is that dude like, oh yeah, I don't.

2393
02:07:47,520 --> 02:07:52,960
I mean, I'm not saying tactics aren't important, but yeah, I know what it feels like to blow

2394
02:07:52,960 --> 02:07:56,600
an address and completely miss a fire because I made the mistake and now my entire crew

2395
02:07:56,600 --> 02:08:00,960
is pissed off at me because I fucked it up for all of us.

2396
02:08:00,960 --> 02:08:04,240
There's a lot of officers out there, no matter where they work, how great they are, how many

2397
02:08:04,240 --> 02:08:08,680
followers they have on social media in their business or they have sites.

2398
02:08:08,680 --> 02:08:10,220
It doesn't matter.

2399
02:08:10,220 --> 02:08:13,160
Any officer with a decent amount of time on that's really fucked it up is going to know

2400
02:08:13,160 --> 02:08:14,880
exactly what that feels like.

2401
02:08:14,880 --> 02:08:15,880
Right?

2402
02:08:15,880 --> 02:08:18,080
I mean, that's ultimately what it is.

2403
02:08:18,080 --> 02:08:21,240
I think, so like I said, I haven't read that book from Jason Redman.

2404
02:08:21,240 --> 02:08:25,000
I think I know what you're talking about, but I've seen him talk.

2405
02:08:25,000 --> 02:08:31,160
I know how he carries himself and I think that's where people create that attraction

2406
02:08:31,160 --> 02:08:33,760
is that relatability.

2407
02:08:33,760 --> 02:08:37,560
In the career side, oh God, excuse me.

2408
02:08:37,560 --> 02:08:42,080
I got in over my head very quickly and never really fully appreciated what I got myself

2409
02:08:42,080 --> 02:08:43,560
into.

2410
02:08:43,560 --> 02:08:49,640
I walked in, I was 28 when I got promoted.

2411
02:08:49,640 --> 02:08:50,640
So I was in my twenties.

2412
02:08:50,640 --> 02:08:51,800
I just got married.

2413
02:08:51,800 --> 02:08:53,240
I just had a kid.

2414
02:08:53,240 --> 02:08:55,960
Nope, didn't have the kid yet.

2415
02:08:55,960 --> 02:08:58,800
Wife was super pregnant, all that.

2416
02:08:58,800 --> 02:09:02,400
And I walked in thinking, well, I'm an officer now and we work here.

2417
02:09:02,400 --> 02:09:04,680
You have to listen to me and everything I say is going to go.

2418
02:09:04,680 --> 02:09:05,680
So I'm going to show up.

2419
02:09:05,680 --> 02:09:06,680
I'm not going to change how I act.

2420
02:09:06,680 --> 02:09:07,680
I'm not going to change my demeanor.

2421
02:09:07,680 --> 02:09:08,680
I'm going to show up.

2422
02:09:08,680 --> 02:09:10,160
I'm going to be friendly with everybody.

2423
02:09:10,160 --> 02:09:11,520
I'm going to try and be cool.

2424
02:09:11,520 --> 02:09:12,520
I'm going to laugh and joke.

2425
02:09:12,520 --> 02:09:13,520
I'm going to make fun of the rookie.

2426
02:09:13,520 --> 02:09:19,120
I'm going to tease the rookie and I want to go to fires.

2427
02:09:19,120 --> 02:09:22,280
Boy was I wrong.

2428
02:09:22,280 --> 02:09:27,880
That is the absolute dumbest thing I ever did in my entire career and I can't believe

2429
02:09:27,880 --> 02:09:28,880
it.

2430
02:09:28,880 --> 02:09:31,800
And I don't even know why I thought that way.

2431
02:09:31,800 --> 02:09:37,040
We had a very brief OCS and we did nothing on leadership.

2432
02:09:37,040 --> 02:09:40,960
Officer candidate school was literally the link between being a firefighter and an officer.

2433
02:09:40,960 --> 02:09:46,600
So admin discipline, all that stuff.

2434
02:09:46,600 --> 02:09:49,640
So in my department, you have to be a paramedic to promote.

2435
02:09:49,640 --> 02:09:54,820
So I was on a medic unit for just under a year when I hit OCS that I went acting on

2436
02:09:54,820 --> 02:09:55,820
day work.

2437
02:09:55,820 --> 02:09:58,720
Day work is 7 a.m. to 3 p.m. Monday through Friday.

2438
02:09:58,720 --> 02:10:01,400
You're off on holidays and weekends.

2439
02:10:01,400 --> 02:10:06,240
So I walk in the firehouse and there's a young guy there that's been in that firehouse longer

2440
02:10:06,240 --> 02:10:07,880
than I've been there.

2441
02:10:07,880 --> 02:10:08,880
He's been in that firehouse.

2442
02:10:08,880 --> 02:10:10,880
I think at that point was like three years.

2443
02:10:10,880 --> 02:10:12,680
So he's the only guy that's really consistently there.

2444
02:10:12,680 --> 02:10:17,360
And then there's a rookie and I walk in and I'm like three year dude.

2445
02:10:17,360 --> 02:10:21,300
Fuck you know nothing.

2446
02:10:21,300 --> 02:10:25,840
Instead of looking at him as an asset and the the go to guy because he's been there

2447
02:10:25,840 --> 02:10:27,060
for three years.

2448
02:10:27,060 --> 02:10:28,060
He's very sharp.

2449
02:10:28,060 --> 02:10:29,060
He's very intelligent.

2450
02:10:29,060 --> 02:10:32,100
And even to this day, he is incredibly sharp and incredibly intelligent and it's a waste

2451
02:10:32,100 --> 02:10:36,360
opportunity of mine to not appreciate him and appreciate what he had to bring to the

2452
02:10:36,360 --> 02:10:38,440
table.

2453
02:10:38,440 --> 02:10:42,360
So fast forward.

2454
02:10:42,360 --> 02:10:46,480
You know I was there just under two years before I moved to a shift workstation.

2455
02:10:46,480 --> 02:10:49,520
And you know we had a lot of problems.

2456
02:10:49,520 --> 02:10:53,520
There was a lot of oil and water and there was an opportunity there that I missed out

2457
02:10:53,520 --> 02:10:56,240
on where I could feel the tension and I pulled in the office.

2458
02:10:56,240 --> 02:10:58,160
I'm like look man like what's up.

2459
02:10:58,160 --> 02:11:02,360
And we had a two hour talk after we got off work and it was a great conversation.

2460
02:11:02,360 --> 02:11:06,240
It's like look man I don't like this this this and this and I wrote everything down

2461
02:11:06,240 --> 02:11:07,240
and I looked at him.

2462
02:11:07,240 --> 02:11:08,240
I mean fuck him.

2463
02:11:08,240 --> 02:11:10,840
You know dumbest thing in the world.

2464
02:11:10,840 --> 02:11:12,000
I don't know why I did that.

2465
02:11:12,000 --> 02:11:17,480
And looking back on it, I'm glad I did it only because I learned the lesson later.

2466
02:11:17,480 --> 02:11:18,480
Right.

2467
02:11:18,480 --> 02:11:21,880
Rather than oh okay I guess you're right.

2468
02:11:21,880 --> 02:11:25,400
And then changing everything and then like just going along to get along.

2469
02:11:25,400 --> 02:11:26,400
Right.

2470
02:11:26,400 --> 02:11:30,760
So I hate the fact that I blew him off but I'm kind of glad the fact that I fell flat

2471
02:11:30,760 --> 02:11:34,400
on my face and I'll get into why in a second.

2472
02:11:34,400 --> 02:11:35,400
So fast forward.

2473
02:11:35,400 --> 02:11:38,240
There's just more and more and more tension and then there's kind of like to the point

2474
02:11:38,240 --> 02:11:39,920
where it's like man F this dude I'm transferring.

2475
02:11:39,920 --> 02:11:40,920
I'm out.

2476
02:11:40,920 --> 02:11:42,080
I can't deal with him anymore.

2477
02:11:42,080 --> 02:11:49,640
And so I remember talking to another officer that's a friend of mine that I was his I was

2478
02:11:49,640 --> 02:11:56,440
a firefighter for him when he was a lieutenant and now we're peers rank wise not time wise

2479
02:11:56,440 --> 02:11:58,240
but rank wise.

2480
02:11:58,240 --> 02:12:01,440
And I was like yeah man I had this problem with this dude and blah blah blah.

2481
02:12:01,440 --> 02:12:06,400
I was like well did you ever think maybe you're a piece of shit and you suck and you're the

2482
02:12:06,400 --> 02:12:08,400
problem and I'm like no.

2483
02:12:08,400 --> 02:12:13,960
He is all right well then tell me why you're correct and why he's wrong.

2484
02:12:13,960 --> 02:12:14,960
Okay.

2485
02:12:14,960 --> 02:12:15,960
Yeah.

2486
02:12:15,960 --> 02:12:16,960
He's like no.

2487
02:12:16,960 --> 02:12:22,560
He's like look man people talk and you.

2488
02:12:22,560 --> 02:12:23,560
You suck.

2489
02:12:23,560 --> 02:12:26,920
You're doing shitty and you need to really get your shit together.

2490
02:12:26,920 --> 02:12:29,880
And our department had never had formal leadership training.

2491
02:12:29,880 --> 02:12:32,000
Like there is no structure there is no class.

2492
02:12:32,000 --> 02:12:37,540
There is no leadership 101 for X Y and Z fire department.

2493
02:12:37,540 --> 02:12:41,480
There's no such thing as that unfortunately.

2494
02:12:41,480 --> 02:12:47,700
And so I go into take leadership under fire and I walk in day one and guess who's there.

2495
02:12:47,700 --> 02:12:53,720
This guy and I remember saying something to him and he's like yeah you suck.

2496
02:12:53,720 --> 02:12:57,080
You didn't listen and it seemed great when we had that chat and then you did absolutely

2497
02:12:57,080 --> 02:12:59,920
nothing you said you were going to do and you had an attitude.

2498
02:12:59,920 --> 02:13:03,040
So quite frankly I don't really give a shit what you have to say.

2499
02:13:03,040 --> 02:13:06,720
That was like a sucker punch right in the frickin teeth.

2500
02:13:06,720 --> 02:13:09,180
Like Jesus what the fuck.

2501
02:13:09,180 --> 02:13:10,360
So I went through leadership under fire.

2502
02:13:10,360 --> 02:13:14,240
I realized had a ton of shit to work on and I sucked at everything I did.

2503
02:13:14,240 --> 02:13:15,240
I was terrible.

2504
02:13:15,240 --> 02:13:17,200
I really was.

2505
02:13:17,200 --> 02:13:21,080
And I think I got stressed out over it so I started drinking more had a little come

2506
02:13:21,080 --> 02:13:26,440
to Jesus talk with my wife and it was kind of one of those.

2507
02:13:26,440 --> 02:13:30,480
So like either you fix this or we're going to have an issue.

2508
02:13:30,480 --> 02:13:33,560
And it was I'm not going to get into what she said but it was basically an ultimatum

2509
02:13:33,560 --> 02:13:34,880
and that was kind of the end of it.

2510
02:13:34,880 --> 02:13:41,400
I got it fixed kind of worked through it and move forward and I just and I got put in a

2511
02:13:41,400 --> 02:13:42,400
new station.

2512
02:13:42,400 --> 02:13:46,040
I thought I knew what I was doing and again I was wrong and I guess I realized not wrong

2513
02:13:46,040 --> 02:13:53,640
but I thought I had the leadership thing figured out what I realized was I'm just inexperienced

2514
02:13:53,640 --> 02:13:58,080
and I was screwing up a ton of stuff and everything that could go wrong went wrong.

2515
02:13:58,080 --> 02:14:00,680
Like I was just everything I was doing was just not firing.

2516
02:14:00,680 --> 02:14:03,240
It wasn't jive and nothing was working.

2517
02:14:03,240 --> 02:14:06,560
And then so I didn't know what to do.

2518
02:14:06,560 --> 02:14:10,720
And I think I would with the biggest impact on me was the leadership under fire class

2519
02:14:10,720 --> 02:14:17,400
because I revisited a lot of the curriculum and then I started understanding why how important

2520
02:14:17,400 --> 02:14:18,400
the reading list was.

2521
02:14:18,400 --> 02:14:20,560
And I don't think I appreciated that in the moment of the class.

2522
02:14:20,560 --> 02:14:21,560
So then I started reading.

2523
02:14:21,560 --> 02:14:28,560
I started listening to podcasts and I started actually really just years of trial and error.

2524
02:14:28,560 --> 02:14:30,200
Like let me go try this.

2525
02:14:30,200 --> 02:14:31,200
All right.

2526
02:14:31,200 --> 02:14:32,200
Well that blew up my face.

2527
02:14:32,200 --> 02:14:33,200
That didn't work.

2528
02:14:33,200 --> 02:14:34,200
Let me try that.

2529
02:14:34,200 --> 02:14:35,200
All right.

2530
02:14:35,200 --> 02:14:36,200
Well that worked.

2531
02:14:36,200 --> 02:14:38,280
And then it got to the point where so we have a bid system.

2532
02:14:38,280 --> 02:14:42,060
So like it's all given out by seniority.

2533
02:14:42,060 --> 02:14:46,480
So like if you want to work at engine one on a shift and five people bid but you have

2534
02:14:46,480 --> 02:14:48,920
the most seniority you go to a shift at engine one.

2535
02:14:48,920 --> 02:14:51,800
So my entire shift left.

2536
02:14:51,800 --> 02:14:54,400
What does that say?

2537
02:14:54,400 --> 02:14:57,520
So that's a huge kick in the gut as well.

2538
02:14:57,520 --> 02:15:02,080
So then I really started diving into I need that I need to fix things.

2539
02:15:02,080 --> 02:15:07,360
And sure enough a fire happened and I don't I really don't want to get into it too much

2540
02:15:07,360 --> 02:15:09,600
just because of the details.

2541
02:15:09,600 --> 02:15:15,880
But and we'll talk after about that one because I do want to actually kind of talk to that

2542
02:15:15,880 --> 02:15:17,560
one talk to you about that one.

2543
02:15:17,560 --> 02:15:22,400
But the most impactful and worst fire of my entire career happened.

2544
02:15:22,400 --> 02:15:25,400
And then I mean I hit rock bottom with a lot of things.

2545
02:15:25,400 --> 02:15:29,160
And I think it all kind of clicked with fuck it.

2546
02:15:29,160 --> 02:15:30,160
I can only head up.

2547
02:15:30,160 --> 02:15:31,600
I can only go up from here.

2548
02:15:31,600 --> 02:15:36,120
I got a new shift like more guys came like you know they replaced them with different

2549
02:15:36,120 --> 02:15:39,640
guys and you know trial and error.

2550
02:15:39,640 --> 02:15:41,600
I got hammered for some stuff that I did.

2551
02:15:41,600 --> 02:15:42,960
I did a lot of stupid things.

2552
02:15:42,960 --> 02:15:47,720
I made a lot of a lot of mistakes and you know the group of people the group of individuals

2553
02:15:47,720 --> 02:15:53,800
that I worked with would hammer you but then would also provide advice or like you know

2554
02:15:53,800 --> 02:15:54,800
yeah you fucked this up.

2555
02:15:54,800 --> 02:15:56,320
Did you ever think about that?

2556
02:15:56,320 --> 02:16:00,720
And instead of having an ego and saying fuck you or whatever I actually stopped and I thought

2557
02:16:00,720 --> 02:16:01,720
about it.

2558
02:16:01,720 --> 02:16:04,680
And then every mistake that I made I stopped and focused on it.

2559
02:16:04,680 --> 02:16:09,080
Okay I did A B and C. What was wrong why was it wrong?

2560
02:16:09,080 --> 02:16:11,600
Okay now how would I fix this next time?

2561
02:16:11,600 --> 02:16:14,520
And then I would just write a little note like I have a I don't have my phone with me

2562
02:16:14,520 --> 02:16:19,840
but on my phone I'll have a little fire log a little picture what I did right what I did

2563
02:16:19,840 --> 02:16:22,080
wrong and then I would revisit it.

2564
02:16:22,080 --> 02:16:25,640
And I started doing that over time or I made a dumb mistake and somebody's like why don't

2565
02:16:25,640 --> 02:16:27,240
you try this?

2566
02:16:27,240 --> 02:16:31,760
Okay firefighter not that I'm not saying you know an officer is better than firefighter

2567
02:16:31,760 --> 02:16:34,880
but the point I'm making is listening to your guys.

2568
02:16:34,880 --> 02:16:38,760
A firefighter says lieutenant you really suck on the area you should make your own maps.

2569
02:16:38,760 --> 02:16:43,640
I had an officer that tried that and said me being like whatever dude I went and made

2570
02:16:43,640 --> 02:16:46,000
maps from my first through fourth alarm box district.

2571
02:16:46,000 --> 02:16:49,560
I drew little notes I have little highlights in there to separate the streets that I continuously

2572
02:16:49,560 --> 02:16:50,600
screwed up.

2573
02:16:50,600 --> 02:16:55,840
I have running routes from on every map page for all four first dues from the firehouse

2574
02:16:55,840 --> 02:17:00,000
because I was screwing them up at three o'clock in the morning when I was exhausted and the

2575
02:17:00,000 --> 02:17:01,920
guys driving did a great job.

2576
02:17:01,920 --> 02:17:05,520
However there comes a point where they're going to need help as well.

2577
02:17:05,520 --> 02:17:09,600
So yeah they can get you the majority the way there but the fine minute needs to be

2578
02:17:09,600 --> 02:17:14,780
me because I have a map in my face and a cell phone as a resource.

2579
02:17:14,780 --> 02:17:16,600
There should be no reason it doesn't work right.

2580
02:17:16,600 --> 02:17:19,840
You should be able to get there the right way every time and then paying attention knowing

2581
02:17:19,840 --> 02:17:22,640
the knowing the right things.

2582
02:17:22,640 --> 02:17:23,640
So I did it.

2583
02:17:23,640 --> 02:17:26,920
Fast forward a couple years that person came to me one day and was like you know it was

2584
02:17:26,920 --> 02:17:31,720
kind of it is kind of nice when you you know you go through a frustrating moment with you

2585
02:17:31,720 --> 02:17:37,200
as an officer and you know you got a suggestion and then watching you every day we laugh and

2586
02:17:37,200 --> 02:17:40,400
joke and fuck with you and bust your balls about those dumb maps you carry every day.

2587
02:17:40,400 --> 02:17:43,600
But he goes but looking back on it's kind of nice that you listen to it because there's

2588
02:17:43,600 --> 02:17:47,360
a lot of times where those maps save my ass and I made sure to tell that guy you know

2589
02:17:47,360 --> 02:17:50,320
thank God you told me to make these maps because I think I would have fucked this up if I didn't

2590
02:17:50,320 --> 02:17:52,000
have this map here and we didn't run this.

2591
02:17:52,000 --> 02:17:55,440
I didn't make this note to have it saved and I flipped to the map page and I remembered

2592
02:17:55,440 --> 02:18:00,280
exactly what we were running with the exact address and what the nuances for that address

2593
02:18:00,280 --> 02:18:04,200
and then a ton of small victories.

2594
02:18:04,200 --> 02:18:09,680
So the most impactful fire of my career and just for the sake of names Smith Street right

2595
02:18:09,680 --> 02:18:12,080
and that's not the real name of the street anyone's listening to this who knows me they

2596
02:18:12,080 --> 02:18:15,640
know what that street is Smith Street was a terrible fire.

2597
02:18:15,640 --> 02:18:17,280
Everything that went wrong could go wrong.

2598
02:18:17,280 --> 02:18:18,680
Everything was fucked up from the jump.

2599
02:18:18,680 --> 02:18:22,880
It was just absolutely terrible and embarrassing.

2600
02:18:22,880 --> 02:18:29,280
Ten houses down we'll call it a quarter mile two blocks was another fire on Smith Street

2601
02:18:29,280 --> 02:18:33,800
and we walked the fucking dog on that fire and that fire went fantastic and my guys did

2602
02:18:33,800 --> 02:18:38,600
freaking good and it was awesome and it was a good fire to boot and so that's Smith Street

2603
02:18:38,600 --> 02:18:46,400
good Smith Street bad and that's now a joke as well but I'm laughing at these jokes right

2604
02:18:46,400 --> 02:18:51,240
and it just it's re-emphasizing those scenarios and what I've learned is over time as those

2605
02:18:51,240 --> 02:18:57,120
things go on they're going to know your weaknesses and your strengths and I think when you start

2606
02:18:57,120 --> 02:19:03,000
making that turn to the right way I know you're half asleep at three in the morning make sure

2607
02:19:03,000 --> 02:19:07,360
you turn to page four it's going to be in the middle.

2608
02:19:07,360 --> 02:19:08,360
Thank you.

2609
02:19:08,360 --> 02:19:13,400
I just you just kind of grin and say thank you or my personal favorite was we ran a fire

2610
02:19:13,400 --> 02:19:20,200
and again three o'clock in the morning and I'm like the guy knew where he was going and

2611
02:19:20,200 --> 02:19:23,880
I didn't really say anything I don't even know why I got my gear on I just sat there

2612
02:19:23,880 --> 02:19:31,360
I was half asleep we got our app we absolutely got crushed that shift and we turn the corner

2613
02:19:31,360 --> 02:19:33,880
and I'm like hey you're going to lay out here we're going to do this I want you to pull

2614
02:19:33,880 --> 02:19:37,680
past we're going to pull a line it's going to be the it's going to be the it's a duplex

2615
02:19:37,680 --> 02:19:41,160
can be the one on the left we're going to go through the front door let me do a 360

2616
02:19:41,160 --> 02:19:44,480
because they're saying it's in the basement.

2617
02:19:44,480 --> 02:19:51,920
So the joke was oh this is where nasty woke up like you know what I mean but it's I don't

2618
02:19:51,920 --> 02:19:57,640
know man I don't really know how to put that into words but you know once you make that

2619
02:19:57,640 --> 02:20:04,080
turn and you start having those successes you're it's it's the human interaction it's

2620
02:20:04,080 --> 02:20:07,920
it's it's the rapport that you're building it's it's the mutual respect it's it's the

2621
02:20:07,920 --> 02:20:12,160
humility it's knowing you're not going to be right all the time it's knowing you're

2622
02:20:12,160 --> 02:20:15,400
going to piss people off but you're not going to sit there like a puppy dog because you

2623
02:20:15,400 --> 02:20:18,640
pissed them off you get you piss them off you screw up they're going to be mad at you

2624
02:20:18,640 --> 02:20:23,720
and you just move on you do the right thing all the time you treat them correctly you

2625
02:20:23,720 --> 02:20:29,880
treat them with respect and vice versa as the officer you're able to go they're saying

2626
02:20:29,880 --> 02:20:35,560
we want it we're going to do a B and C no you're not doing a B and C you're doing D

2627
02:20:35,560 --> 02:20:43,520
E at ABC yeah D E I just forgot the other we're not doing ABC we're doing XYZ they want

2628
02:20:43,520 --> 02:20:49,240
that as well so when you have that ability to do all those things I believe you would

2629
02:20:49,240 --> 02:20:53,560
be a successful leader because you're earning their respect over time trust is trust it

2630
02:20:53,560 --> 02:20:59,080
takes time don't rush it so all these things that I brought up all this big whirlwind what

2631
02:20:59,080 --> 02:21:03,920
I've learned is when I did this when I did this podcast I actually I got hurt at work

2632
02:21:03,920 --> 02:21:09,800
I herniated two discs in my neck and I was off for like four or five shifts and some

2633
02:21:09,800 --> 02:21:14,960
other stuff some personal stuff happened a major personal life event and I had time where

2634
02:21:14,960 --> 02:21:19,800
I was just I wasn't alone but like my wife went to work kid went to school and I'm at

2635
02:21:19,800 --> 02:21:24,440
home like I'm off work I remember my routines fucked up like I'm all by myself and you know

2636
02:21:24,440 --> 02:21:30,720
I was like I'm gonna you know I was taught I had therapists a therapist and she was just

2637
02:21:30,720 --> 02:21:33,240
kind of like you know why don't you write just write about something that you like can

2638
02:21:33,240 --> 02:21:37,120
be anything in the world whatever you want I don't give a shit just write writing writing

2639
02:21:37,120 --> 02:21:40,320
writing writing what I'm finding out was I started writing about leadership and the mistakes

2640
02:21:40,320 --> 02:21:43,320
that I made what I've learned the good things the bad things all those things and everything

2641
02:21:43,320 --> 02:21:48,800
in between and because I was bored I'm like let me just start an Instagram so I threw

2642
02:21:48,800 --> 02:21:52,800
a bunch of stuff up I don't even remember how to put the spirit leaders I think it's

2643
02:21:52,800 --> 02:21:56,120
popped up in my head I think I think I was what I don't remember the name of the movie

2644
02:21:56,120 --> 02:22:01,880
I was watching a movie and they were joking around about they were gonna be the first

2645
02:22:01,880 --> 02:22:05,080
ones to do something I don't remember what it was and they're like yeah you're the tip

2646
02:22:05,080 --> 02:22:09,160
of the sword you're the first ones are like no tip of the spear is that not the sword

2647
02:22:09,160 --> 02:22:13,680
is the tip of the I was like it's kind of ironic that that popped up in this this movie

2648
02:22:13,680 --> 02:22:21,680
popped up it's like hmm tip of the spear leadership yeah it's cool so I literally just

2649
02:22:21,680 --> 02:22:26,080
I started it through a bunch of pictures up I started brain dumping like just random things

2650
02:22:26,080 --> 02:22:30,240
that I would think I would put into voice text voice to text on my phone like and I

2651
02:22:30,240 --> 02:22:33,680
even do that now I'll read something or you know whatever like while we were talking I've

2652
02:22:33,680 --> 02:22:36,880
been writing stuff down like I might even I don't know something that it might kick

2653
02:22:36,880 --> 02:22:41,000
my memory off but if I have something an idea that just randomly pops in my head I'll stop

2654
02:22:41,000 --> 02:22:44,320
what I'm doing I'll do a voice to text I'll save it I'll come back later and that's what

2655
02:22:44,320 --> 02:22:51,160
I've always done and so I started posting those and it started gaining traction and

2656
02:22:51,160 --> 02:22:59,000
it blew up really fast unexpectedly and it was it was very interesting and then I started

2657
02:22:59,000 --> 02:23:06,440
using it as a tool to develop my leadership I think it went well I think there's some

2658
02:23:06,440 --> 02:23:11,520
things that didn't go that great but I talked to all these guys about leadership and their

2659
02:23:11,520 --> 02:23:16,440
experiences and then I get to go take ideas and things and thoughts and I go to work and

2660
02:23:16,440 --> 02:23:20,800
I put them into practice some good or some things worked out some things didn't work

2661
02:23:20,800 --> 02:23:29,840
out then I had an event at work that I ended up getting suspended over that I think this

2662
02:23:29,840 --> 02:23:36,200
podcast this journey this situation and everything put me in the position to have the confidence

2663
02:23:36,200 --> 02:23:42,080
to know this is going to get be against policy it's going to be bad here's the right way

2664
02:23:42,080 --> 02:23:47,120
to do this because it's against policy I'm going to execute it and I have the confidence

2665
02:23:47,120 --> 02:23:51,320
because I know I'm right and that took me a long time to do that because I'll be honest

2666
02:23:51,320 --> 02:23:55,960
with you if this call if that scenario happened two years before I may not have done the same

2667
02:23:55,960 --> 02:24:00,160
thing if it would have happened and I never started my podcast at all and had the opportunity

2668
02:24:00,160 --> 02:24:06,320
to learn from other people and put things into play and do my best to be a better officer

2669
02:24:06,320 --> 02:24:10,640
with confidence and competence would I've been able to do it maybe not I don't know

2670
02:24:10,640 --> 02:24:14,480
but what I do know is I was in the position where I had the confidence the competence

2671
02:24:14,480 --> 02:24:21,360
and I knew the guys with me would support my decision because it's a decision that you

2672
02:24:21,360 --> 02:24:27,380
have to make at the street level from having experience in the street in the field as a

2673
02:24:27,380 --> 02:24:33,800
firefighter in the field as an officer in the field and I executed it and it blew up

2674
02:24:33,800 --> 02:24:38,280
I got suspended and everything kind of went the way it went administratively it is what

2675
02:24:38,280 --> 02:24:43,760
it is it's in the past administratively it didn't look good it wasn't right in their

2676
02:24:43,760 --> 02:24:51,760
eyes in reality morally ethically it was right and I know what I did was right and it was

2677
02:24:51,760 --> 02:24:58,640
kind of I don't see the precipice or the the the peak of my leadership because I don't

2678
02:24:58,640 --> 02:25:02,760
know if that's really happened yet or not I don't know but what I do know is that was

2679
02:25:02,760 --> 02:25:09,760
one of the biggest tests of my abilities as an officer unexpectedly that happened and

2680
02:25:09,760 --> 02:25:18,440
I executed it correctly I think regardless of what administration thinks regardless of

2681
02:25:18,440 --> 02:25:24,160
you know the public eye I think I I think I executed on that one the way it should have

2682
02:25:24,160 --> 02:25:34,000
been done on a moral level so it all interconnects interwebs I mean it's all there man it really

2683
02:25:34,000 --> 02:25:39,280
is and I know I was I know I just talked for a long time but you know that's kind of where

2684
02:25:39,280 --> 02:25:43,600
I'm at and that's kind of my whole point of all of this is I'm just a dude that rides

2685
02:25:43,600 --> 02:25:49,840
a fire truck I don't sit in an office I don't run to light duty I don't do any of that stuff

2686
02:25:49,840 --> 02:25:55,800
I just I go to work I use my leave I enjoy my leave I enjoy my days off and I enjoy my

2687
02:25:55,800 --> 02:26:00,320
swaps and I'm gonna throw a sick grenade to take a day off I'm gonna do it and you know

2688
02:26:00,320 --> 02:26:05,720
I mean I'm gonna follow departmental policy but you know I just that's kind of where I'm

2689
02:26:05,720 --> 02:26:14,120
at and I think that's why I've gained success as an officer more so than the podcast thing

2690
02:26:14,120 --> 02:26:20,820
is because you know ultimately it's all a matter of just doing the job and executing

2691
02:26:20,820 --> 02:26:25,240
it correctly and I think that comes from the human element and from continuous learning

2692
02:26:25,240 --> 02:26:30,560
continuous training and never stopping the training and always evolving from your last

2693
02:26:30,560 --> 02:26:37,240
mistake or your last triumph for the better and I think you know going back to this Jason

2694
02:26:37,240 --> 02:26:41,120
Jason Redman guy and the leadership books and and all those things I talked about in

2695
02:26:41,120 --> 02:26:47,020
the beginning the experiences are always going to be different because my experiences will

2696
02:26:47,020 --> 02:26:53,020
never be yours so when you don't get caught up in what they do in x-city or x-department

2697
02:26:53,020 --> 02:26:57,700
and you look at it at the personal level I think that's where you get the biggest success

2698
02:26:57,700 --> 02:27:02,880
and why people like that are so successful with the everyday human is because it's the

2699
02:27:02,880 --> 02:27:09,840
human level at that at that that personal level of you as a human being trying to lead

2700
02:27:09,840 --> 02:27:16,680
others having the humility and truly giving a shit about those under your command and

2701
02:27:16,680 --> 02:27:22,520
and I think when you speak to you speak to it especially like with my podcast and my

2702
02:27:22,520 --> 02:27:27,360
and social medias I look at it as this is a lesson that I learned and I just put it

2703
02:27:27,360 --> 02:27:30,040
out there I'm not trying to sell you a book I'm not trying to sell you a t-shirt I'm not

2704
02:27:30,040 --> 02:27:33,680
trying to sell you an ideology I don't care about the NFPA I don't give a shit about how

2705
02:27:33,680 --> 02:27:38,200
you force your doors keep yourself prepared and ready to do your job and you do your job

2706
02:27:38,200 --> 02:27:42,600
when it's needed and be relayed reliable and be present that's all I care about ever you

2707
02:27:42,600 --> 02:27:48,840
do it I don't give a shit that's your job you do it yourself but I do think at that

2708
02:27:48,840 --> 02:27:55,640
personal level I think that's where the success comes from you know I think you know this

2709
02:27:55,640 --> 02:28:00,600
is my story this is how I work this is how my brain works does it relate to you maybe

2710
02:28:00,600 --> 02:28:05,320
I think it does a lot of people are really relatable to what I put off because even though

2711
02:28:05,320 --> 02:28:08,720
we don't work in the same department you know how it feels to be an officer and like I said

2712
02:28:08,720 --> 02:28:16,000
before what it feels like to blow that address there's no one to blame but you and it's you

2713
02:28:16,000 --> 02:28:23,720
and when you suck you need to own it and I sucked bad and I just take every day and call

2714
02:28:23,720 --> 02:28:27,480
by call and learn that's all I do man.

2715
02:28:27,480 --> 02:28:34,440
Beautiful well again I think your humility and your transparency is what people need

2716
02:28:34,440 --> 02:28:39,040
to hear and when I wrote my book it was exactly the same reason as what you're talking about

2717
02:28:39,040 --> 02:28:43,360
now I wasn't at the World Trade I wasn't at the Vegas shoot and I wasn't at Grenfell

2718
02:28:43,360 --> 02:28:49,000
fire in London I wanted to write for the other 99.9% of the fire service and I'm not you

2719
02:28:49,000 --> 02:28:52,960
know those are all powerful stories need to be told but what about the average person

2720
02:28:52,960 --> 02:28:58,480
we all see horrible stuff we all experience sleep deprivation we all have sometimes toxicity

2721
02:28:58,480 --> 02:29:03,120
at work you know let's talk about the average person and the human experience in uniform

2722
02:29:03,120 --> 02:29:09,360
so it sounds like you know a valuable perspective so for people listening where can they find

2723
02:29:09,360 --> 02:29:12,800
you on social media and then what about the podcast.

2724
02:29:12,800 --> 02:29:18,720
So if you search tip of the spear leadership it's going to come right up on Instagram you

2725
02:29:18,720 --> 02:29:25,280
can search Michael nasty on LinkedIn tip the spear leadership on Facebook will come to

2726
02:29:25,280 --> 02:29:29,760
my group it's a private group because I have a lot of spammers and I don't have it but

2727
02:29:29,760 --> 02:29:34,320
it had a lot of spammers when I first started it so I had to change it to private just follow

2728
02:29:34,320 --> 02:29:39,440
and I'll you know obviously I'll accept it but yeah and then the podcast just search

2729
02:29:39,440 --> 02:29:45,280
tip of the spear leadership on any podcast platform that you listen to it should be it

2730
02:29:45,280 --> 02:29:49,840
should be on all of them but I have the most followers listener and everybody's on Spotify

2731
02:29:49,840 --> 02:29:53,480
and Apple so if you just search tip the spear leadership podcast it's going to come right

2732
02:29:53,480 --> 02:29:58,000
up there's only one that I know of I've never had anything else come up so that's the best

2733
02:29:58,000 --> 02:30:03,440
place to find me and I'm pretty good about answering Instagram Facebook and some of the

2734
02:30:03,440 --> 02:30:08,760
other stuff is kind of hard to follow like LinkedIn's hard to I don't know it's kind

2735
02:30:08,760 --> 02:30:12,880
of tough so I'm still trying to figure it out a year later but that's the best place

2736
02:30:12,880 --> 02:30:13,880
to find me.

2737
02:30:13,880 --> 02:30:18,680
Brilliant well I just want to say thank you so much I mean we've been all over the place

2738
02:30:18,680 --> 02:30:24,480
from lacrosse to leadership and everything in between but it's just been such a an important

2739
02:30:24,480 --> 02:30:30,320
conversation and like I said that that courageous transparency that humility I think is really

2740
02:30:30,320 --> 02:30:34,120
important as well because that's how you grab someone by the throat when you've made mistakes

2741
02:30:34,120 --> 02:30:38,080
and you own it and you even talk about the impact of those mistakes you know and how

2742
02:30:38,080 --> 02:30:43,560
it bled into to family life and almost threatened a marriage for example these are all invaluable

2743
02:30:43,560 --> 02:30:48,240
elements of the fire service conversation so I want to thank you so much for being so

2744
02:30:48,240 --> 02:30:51,920
generous with your time and coming on behind the shield podcast today.

2745
02:30:51,920 --> 02:30:55,360
No absolutely thank you for having me it was truly an honor and you know if I could say

2746
02:30:55,360 --> 02:30:57,360
one more thing before we go.

2747
02:30:57,360 --> 02:30:58,800
Please.

2748
02:30:58,800 --> 02:31:04,000
You know again like I said before don't ever don't ever underestimate your impact on anyone

2749
02:31:04,000 --> 02:31:07,880
else and I think the biggest impact you can have on other people besides how you treat

2750
02:31:07,880 --> 02:31:12,960
them that's a given is how you carry yourself and how you treat yourself so if you treat

2751
02:31:12,960 --> 02:31:15,760
yourself like shit you don't take care of yourself you don't eat where you're supposed

2752
02:31:15,760 --> 02:31:20,640
to you don't exercise you don't PT at work you don't do any of those things people are

2753
02:31:20,640 --> 02:31:23,800
going to see that and how are you going to take care of me if you can't take care of

2754
02:31:23,800 --> 02:31:27,760
you that's the most basic thing in the morning I had people I had somebody that I worked

2755
02:31:27,760 --> 02:31:31,640
with she is a grown adult and she could not show up in the correct uniform the most basic

2756
02:31:31,640 --> 02:31:35,160
thing you can do is get dressed in the morning and come to work on time and you can't do

2757
02:31:35,160 --> 02:31:39,160
that how can I trust you to do something that could kill you could kill me or could kill

2758
02:31:39,160 --> 02:31:45,800
other people so that's kind of it that's kind of the biggest thing I think when it comes

2759
02:31:45,800 --> 02:32:09,720
to that so I just wanted to say that before we left.