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This episode is brought to you by Thorne and I have some incredible news for any of you

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that are in the military, first responder or medical professions.

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In an effort to give back, Thorne is now offering you an ongoing 35% off each and every one

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Now Thorne is the official supplement of CrossFit, the UFC, the Mayo Clinic, the Human Performance

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Project and multiple special operations organizations.

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I myself have used them for several years and that is why I brought them on as a sponsor.

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Some of my favorite products they have are their Multivitamin Elite, their Whey Protein,

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the Super EPA and then most recently, Cynaquil.

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As a firefighter, a stuntman and a martial artist, I've had my share of brain trauma

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and sleep deprivation and Cynaquil is their latest brain health supplement.

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Now to qualify for the 35% off, go to thorn.com, T-H-O-R-N-E dot com.

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Click on sign in and then create a new account.

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You will see the opportunity to register as a first responder or member of military.

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When you click on that, it will take you through verification with GovX.

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You'll simply choose a profession, provide one piece of documentation and then you are

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verified for life.

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From that point onwards, you will continue to receive 35% off through Thorn.

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For those of you who don't qualify, there is still the 10% off using the code BTS10

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for a one time purchase.

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To learn more about Thorn, go to episode 323 of the Behind the Shield podcast with Joel

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Titoro and Wes Barnett.

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This episode is sponsored by a company I've used for well over a decade and that is 511.

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I wore their uniforms back in Anaheim, California and have used their products ever since.

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From their incredibly strong yet light footwear to their cut uniforms for both male and female

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responders, I found them hands down the best work wear in all the departments that I've

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worked for.

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Outside of the fire service, I use their luggage for everything and I travel a lot and they

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are also now sponsoring the 7X team as we embark around the world on the Human Performance

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project.

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We have Murph coming up in May and again, I bought their plate carrier.

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I ended up buying real ballistic plates rather than the fake weight plates and that has been

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my ride or die through Murph the last few years as well.

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One area I want to talk about that I haven't in previous sponsorship spots is their brick

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and mortar element.

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They were predominantly an online company up till more recently but now they are approaching

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100 stores all over the US.

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My local store is here in Gainesville Florida and I've been multiple times and the discounts

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you see online are applied also in the stores.

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So as I mentioned, 511 is offering you 15% off every purchase that you make but I do

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want to say more often than not they have an even deeper discount especially around

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holiday times.

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But if you use the code SHIELD15, that's S-H-I-E-L-D-1-5, you will get 15% off your order or in the

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stores every time you make a purchase.

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And if you want to hear more about 511, who they stand for and who works with them, listen

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to episode 580 of Behind the Shield podcast with 511 regional director, Will Ayres.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome

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on the show, paramedic, FDNY firefighter and the man behind the burn box, Thomas Ansoo.

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Now in this conversation we discuss a host of topics from his early life growing up in

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New York, his journey into the world of EMS, entering the fire service, the importance

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of servant leadership, firefighter mental health, special operations, power of entrepreneurship

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and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and

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leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier

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for others to find.

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And this is a free library of over 900 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

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I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Thomas Ansoo.

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Enjoy.

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Well, Thomas, I want to start by saying thank you so much for taking the time and coming

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on the Behind the Shield podcast this afternoon.

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Thank you for having me as I've been a fan for a while and it's an honor to be here and

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tell my story and speak to you.

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Absolutely.

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Likewise.

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So where on planet earth will be finding you today?

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So where do I live?

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Yes.

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Oh, all right.

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So currently right now I live in Long Island, New York, Baldwin, but I was born and raised

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in Queens.

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So that's where I live most of my life.

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I just moved out here to Long Island and I work in Brooklyn.

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So brilliant.

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Well, let's start in Queensland.

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So tell me about your family dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings?

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Oh, man.

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So my father was like a manager of a supermarket.

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He's been doing that for 30.

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He's still working.

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He's like 72.

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He's still working.

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He's kind of the only guy working.

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My mom was pretty much a stay at home mother.

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She had a few jobs here and there, but nothing really serious.

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I have six brothers and I have four sisters.

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Wow.

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So I got a pretty big family growing up.

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We were actually born in Manhattan, most of us, and then we moved to Queens when I was

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like six.

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We moved to Queens Village and that's kind of where we've been.

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That's kind of where they still are now.

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Beautiful.

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With your dad, it's an interesting lens that he has.

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Have you ever had the discussion with him about how groceries have changed over the

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years?

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How, because when I was young, which is certainly before you were born, there wasn't really

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any food as far as organic and that kind of thing.

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Now a few decades prior there was, but then you start getting all the processed food.

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But now when you go into a lot of supermarkets or grocery stores, that finally is a thing.

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They don't have their own section anymore.

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The organic, healthier food is everywhere now.

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So has he ever discussed about the kind of evolution of what's in his walls?

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He never really talks about his job really.

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He just complains that some of the cashiers don't show up and stuff like that.

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My father's actually from Ghana.

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He's from Ghana, West Africa.

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So he came here when he was 28.

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So he has a very different outlook on everything.

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He's a very like nonchalant, like nothing makes him upset.

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He's always very cool.

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He just comes home and he's like, work was work.

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Now what about his experience?

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Obviously I'm an immigrant too.

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And I think that sometimes there's a very, what's the right word, irresponsible narrative

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when it comes to immigration in America.

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And a lot of this country is built on the back of immigrants from all colors and creeds.

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What were the highs of his immigration story and then were there any lows as well?

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I wouldn't say there was any lows.

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One time he got assaulted, somebody hit him with a hammer.

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Crazy.

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But it's New York.

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I'm not sure.

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I was very young.

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I'm not sure if that had to do with him being an immigrant, but he had struggles because

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he has a heavy African accent.

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So like people think because he has an accent, he's stupid or something, which is a problem

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he has, is a challenge he has a lot.

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But as far as us and our upbringing, he was just very big on education and he wanted us

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to go to school.

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He didn't care what, like you could be a terrible kid, but as long as you had good grades, he

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was okay with it.

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That was his big, that was the one thing he didn't get angry often, but if it came to

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school, that's the one thing that kind of made him upset.

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See English people have the opposite problem.

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Everyone thinks we're intelligent when I'm actually dumb as a box of rocks.

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School is a big thing for him.

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I mean, I guess he's still disappointed in me.

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I didn't go to school.

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I went to school, but I didn't go to college or anything.

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We went to trade school.

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I'd argue that's probably one of the most powerful ways of educating a child.

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Yeah, but growing up was mayhem and having all those siblings and like getting ready

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for school, everyone fighting for the bathroom.

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It was a challenge every morning.

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I'm one of five and I grew up on a farm, so we were kind of feral.

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We kind of raised ourselves a little bit, but it was the same thing.

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You become this little tribe and almost kind of separate from your parents.

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Yeah, I used to wonder how did my parents do it, but things were different back then,

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but I think a lot of it was the older ones start to look after the younger ones.

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So you know what I mean?

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Like my older brothers did a lot of, you know, my parents would go out, they'd watch us and

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it was terrible because they were terrorists.

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They were mean.

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What about sports?

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What were you playing and doing back in school age?

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So one thing I wasn't heavy into sports like as far as school, but I would go to the park.

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My sport of choice was basketball.

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I never really played for a team, but I would go to the park and always play basketball.

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My older brother, he was a football, I have one older brother who was big in football.

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Another older brother was big into chess, but no one really took sports too, too seriously.

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And what about access to actual, you know, athletic areas?

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Because when I think of, you know, Manhattan and some of these really built up, you know,

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urban settings, when there's a discussion on, for example, you know, again, nutrition and

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you look at what, you know, technically as a food desert and in a populated city or the

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ability to exercise.

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Now, you know, in Manhattan, obviously people are walking everywhere, but it's not like

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they have these lush, beautiful parks everywhere like we do here in Florida, for example.

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So what was, you know, what kind of parks did you have access to back then?

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So Central Park in the city, that's a big, that's a pretty big, a lot of people go there.

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In Brooklyn where I work now, Prospect Park, a lot of people like to get out and walk around

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there.

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There's a lot of local parks in our neighborhood.

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Speaking, now that you say it, I do remember guys played roller hockey.

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We had like a roller hockey ring, but we didn't have a couple of parks.

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I wouldn't say lush and beautiful, concrete, most of it, and asphalt, but we found ways

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to get active, ride our bikes, you know, run around, play tag and stuff.

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Did you have any exposure to the fire service when you were a kid?

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Had none.

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The only thing is when I was a kid, no, only time I really learned about the fire department

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is when I was like an adult.

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So when you were in school, what were you dreaming of becoming back then?

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So going to school, I was not the best student.

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I wouldn't say I was a bad kid.

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I wasn't into gangs, but I was very, very silly and goofy, very immature.

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So what I wanted to be a business, I wanted to be go to business.

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I know I wanted to do business, so I think the high school I went to had like, it was

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broken up to four different schools.

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And the one I went to was the business part of that school.

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It was in Queens, New York.

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And you know, they give you a few business courses.

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It wasn't much, but that's kind of where I wanted to go.

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I wanted to get into business, found it interesting.

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So walk me through the journey from graduating wanting to go in the business world to entering

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the rock.

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All right, so my older brother had became an EMT.

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He was in this program where if you get in trouble, like not in trouble, if you're short

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a few credits for like to graduate high school, you are they have a program where you can

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get your diploma, the credits that you're shy to graduate and you can get your EMT certification,

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your emergency medical technician certification.

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So my older brother did it.

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I didn't really want to do it, but I found myself following after him two years later.

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I was shy a few credits and I kind of was being a knucklehead in school.

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So I said, you know, I didn't have any other options.

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Well, I had other options, but I figured I'd follow my brother's footsteps.

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I get into that program where I get my EMT credits in my diploma.

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And it was a challenging program because you have to, you couldn't miss any days.

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You couldn't be late too much.

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You have to keep a certain grade to stay in, but you get your EMT card and your diploma

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at the same time.

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So it was a good opportunity.

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I took it.

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I thank God I passed it.

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And then right after you graduate that you go right into FDNY has a training orientation

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program for EMTs for EMS.

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It was called TOPS class.

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And it's right when I graduated, I graduated, let's say June 1st, I was in FDNY TOPS class,

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like the 20th of June.

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And I was 18 when that happened.

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And where did you find yourself assigned?

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So after joining TOPS class, I got assigned to Bed Star Brooklyn, station 35.

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It was in the bottom of a hospital.

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It was probably, there was a station right next to it.

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There was two, station five seven and station three five.

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And three five is kind of like the forgotten child of that neighborhood.

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So we were in the basement.

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It was like next to the morgue.

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It was gross.

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But now right when I left, became a firefighter.

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They got a brand new station.

235
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But of course, when I leave, they get all the nice stuff.

236
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But yeah, it was a good experience, man.

237
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Bed Star is a little different than it is now.

238
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It wasn't as bad as the 80s, but it was definitely a rougher neighborhood.

239
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,520
Nowadays it's a very neighborhood, very gentrified.

240
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:23,520
It's very different.

241
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:28,840
It's not as bad as it was, but it was a good neighborhood to get experience.

242
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,000
What shifts were you working?

243
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,640
So when you first graduate, you get put on a mentor unit.

244
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,320
So like for 90 days, you work with experienced EMTs.

245
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,520
And then after that, then you get put on a regular line unit.

246
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:47,600
So I worked the unit I worked sat in Greenpoint, which was not too bad.

247
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:54,200
But after I got a probation, I got sent into right in the heart of Bed Star, unit three

248
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:55,760
seven Frank, it was a very busy unit.

249
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You got a lot of experience out doing that, man.

250
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:00,120
Did I answer the question?

251
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:01,120
Yeah, absolutely.

252
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,280
Was that an EMT and a medic, two of you in each unit?

253
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:09,200
No, so EMTs, EMTs are paired with EMTs and medics are paired with medics.

254
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:10,200
That's how it works.

255
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:15,720
If you get a BLS run and you need medics, you just call for them.

256
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,520
Certain calls have medics, they have both of us on them.

257
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:20,800
Gotcha.

258
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,120
So in that area, you said it wasn't as bad as the 80s.

259
00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,600
Talk to me about that area in the 80s and then what were the kind of calls that you

260
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,920
were running on in your career?

261
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:35,160
Well, back then it was big with drugs was a big thing back in the day.

262
00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,480
When I started working there, you still had your issues with drugs.

263
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:41,600
Problem is it was very, very violent.

264
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,040
So we do a lot of shootings, a lot of stabbings.

265
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:46,600
You get a lot of your run in the mill calls.

266
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:52,240
But when I first got assigned to that bedside area, that's there was a lot of shootings,

267
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:53,240
a lot of stabbing.

268
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:59,840
You're guaranteed every weekend, you're guaranteed to get some trauma calls there.

269
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:01,320
The neighborhood is not the same anymore.

270
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,960
I don't work there anymore, but I drive through it.

271
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,840
It's just a much nicer, it's not much going on.

272
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:08,840
It's definitely changed.

273
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,360
A lot of the cities changed, to be honest.

274
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:16,560
So when you think back to that time, though, because I think again, back to environment,

275
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:17,560
we've both seen it.

276
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:22,560
There are kids that you go to their parents' house on a call and you just look around and

277
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:28,200
go, oh my God, these kids are doomed to get out of this and find a positive road.

278
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,800
When you look back at that time, what was that environment?

279
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:37,960
What were the contributing factors that were resulting in addiction, drug dealing and the

280
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:39,440
violence around it?

281
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,640
Oh man, there's a lot that contribute to that.

282
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,680
I think education is a big part of it, just lack of education.

283
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,720
There's a lot of people, hardworking families out there trying to do their best, but they

284
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,960
don't know what they don't know.

285
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,040
Just also the pressures of the neighborhood.

286
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,160
So let's say for me, for instance, me, I was in my high school.

287
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:05,400
I wasn't in the worst neighborhood, but my high school, you had to go through metal detectors

288
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:10,600
to get in, but there would still be a mob of kids standing outside when you get out.

289
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,920
So yeah, you're clean, you got nothing on you, but when you go in home, you're getting robbed

290
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,400
on the way home.

291
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,260
That kind of principle applies.

292
00:17:18,260 --> 00:17:23,200
You could try your best to do what you can, but if it's a lot of toxic people in your

293
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,000
environment, you kind of have to... Sometimes you got to do things you don't want to do

294
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,720
to survive.

295
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:34,280
You find a lot of people just minding their business, getting caught up in stuff.

296
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,920
I think lack of education is a huge one.

297
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:42,120
I think whenever there's lack of education, lack of money in a neighborhood, it's going

298
00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:45,520
to breed violence.

299
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,640
I've always found it... I think strange is even the right word.

300
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,280
Unfair, I think is the word.

301
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,160
We're all aware of those kind of parts of town, those schools that have the metal detectors

302
00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:02,560
and the really bad gang membership, and there are shootings and killings outside those schools

303
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,280
all the time.

304
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:10,480
When you get a person walk into a school, all of a sudden it makes the news, and rightly

305
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:11,480
so.

306
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,360
It's a horrendous event, any sort of school shooting.

307
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:17,500
But I always... When I see those, think of, well, that's probably the tip of the iceberg

308
00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:21,840
for how many kids are murdered just outside of school, just like you were saying.

309
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:26,240
Yeah, so it's unfortunate.

310
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:30,120
But I'm not going to say act like the city or people haven't tried to make programs.

311
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:33,640
There's definitely programs, after school programs and stuff out there.

312
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:34,640
But is it enough?

313
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:35,640
I don't know.

314
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:36,640
I don't know.

315
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:43,920
But things have definitely changed a little bit for the better, I would say.

316
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,660
Now what about mentorship and the fire service specifically?

317
00:18:47,660 --> 00:18:50,920
One of the best things that I've seen, and I talk about it all the time, they have a

318
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:56,320
mentorship program here in Ocala, Florida, where I live, and started by a friend of mine.

319
00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,760
If you think about, for example, the diversity conversation, and FDNY was certainly one of

320
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:06,200
the ones dragged into the spotlight initially for that.

321
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:13,160
Ultimately you want to find the best candidates in all the areas, all walks of life.

322
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,520
When you set up mentorship programs and you remove the barriers to entry, because here

323
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:22,280
in Florida we have to go through Fire Academy first, pay for it, and then try and get hired

324
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:23,280
usually.

325
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,520
So if you're from a poorer neighborhood, you may just simply not have the means to

326
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,080
get to an academy to pay for an academy.

327
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:34,280
So what this does is it trains the kids free of charge, and they have a centrally located

328
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,920
area, usually downtown.

329
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,520
And then there are scholarships for Fire Academy, and then departments on the other end look

330
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:42,520
into hire.

331
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:48,000
It's a phenomenal program, because not only are you raising up young boys and girls that

332
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,440
are going to be great firefighters, you're also giving them an opportunity, other girls

333
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,200
and boys, to go, you know what, this isn't what I want to do.

334
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,200
And that's a huge win as well.

335
00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:03,000
So through the FDNY lens now, have you seen mentorship programs that are empowering kids

336
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:08,840
from less underserved neighborhoods to be able to believe that they can also be firefighters?

337
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:09,840
Yes.

338
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,880
That's one big thing that the fire department has made huge strides in lately.

339
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,480
I didn't necessarily, I didn't really know, I knew you see fire trucks driving by when

340
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:23,000
you're a kid, but I didn't put the two and two together that, you know, I could do this

341
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:24,220
thing.

342
00:20:24,220 --> 00:20:27,440
So growing up, I didn't really know about, I didn't really think that it was possible

343
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:28,440
for me.

344
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:29,440
I didn't have any family on it.

345
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,600
So I never just, it was just out of sight, out of mind.

346
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:36,080
But that's when I became an EMT, and I was working side by side with these guys and watching

347
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:41,640
some of my fellow coworkers, they were taking the promotional exam to become EMTs, I mean,

348
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,160
come firemen.

349
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,280
That's kind of where I was like, oh, oh, it made it seem realistic.

350
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:52,680
But the FDNY, there was a huge lawsuit and there was a hiring freeze, but they've been

351
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:57,600
making a lot of strides to even the playing field as far as diversity goes.

352
00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,560
So they have huge diversity initiatives.

353
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:04,200
Like my brother-in-law is waiting to get hired now and he has a mentor.

354
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,960
You see him on the street, like you're walking by, they have little tables set up.

355
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:13,280
They're doing a lot more than I remember when I was getting hired.

356
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,600
So it's huge, it's huge what they're doing to get, spread the word, you know, just let

357
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,560
you know that it's an option, let you know it's something you could do.

358
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:25,080
A lot of the, they have free training for like when the test, after you take the test,

359
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:30,040
like if you want to take practice, like for the physical or practice written, it's like

360
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,880
they have all that stuff available, you know, which I didn't know existed.

361
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:35,640
But they've really doubled down recently.

362
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:36,640
Yeah.

363
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,440
Now I think it's important for people to hear that because those programs just seem to work

364
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:46,480
so well and it just addresses all the inequities that used to occur, you know, and you think

365
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:52,340
about how many great firefighters and police officers and EMTs and you know, other professions

366
00:21:52,340 --> 00:21:56,140
that we lost because we just weren't able to get into those areas.

367
00:21:56,140 --> 00:22:00,280
And those, you know, young men and women maybe missed the opportunity to do something that

368
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,340
they really, you know, dreamed about.

369
00:22:02,340 --> 00:22:06,920
So yeah, and then also I got a friend, Steve O. Michelle, who's originally his family from

370
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:12,480
Haiti and he grew up in, I mean, the most desperate apartment complex I've ever seen

371
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:13,480
in my whole career.

372
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,480
I mean, we used to think that it was all boarded up and vacant and, you know, people would

373
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,520
come and move the boards out the way and, you know, move a whole family in.

374
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:24,440
And I mean, it literally looked like it came from a third world country.

375
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:29,960
And he ended up getting into one of the Colorado colleges playing ball and then he became a

376
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,680
firefighter and he got himself assigned back to his neighborhood just so he could show

377
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:41,080
other Haitian and Haitian descent kids that you can be a firefighter.

378
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:42,380
If I can do it, you can do it.

379
00:22:42,380 --> 00:22:44,920
So I think those messages are so, so important.

380
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:46,480
Yeah, that's huge.

381
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:47,480
That's huge.

382
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:52,520
Like when I got into that EMT program that I was in high school, a lot of the kids that

383
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,920
graduated that same program, they would come back and they would just come back, they would

384
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,320
be in uniform and they're dressed blues and they would just tell you, hey guys, this is

385
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:01,320
awesome.

386
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:02,320
Stay with it, stay focused.

387
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,320
And it made a difference for sure.

388
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:05,320
Beautiful.

389
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,800
Well, talk to me then about your transition from EMS to fire them.

390
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:10,800
Okay.

391
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:17,560
So when I got to my EMS station, worked there a couple of months, everyone, most of the

392
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:22,080
guys there, they were, they took the promotional exam.

393
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:26,720
So the way the FDNY works is they have an open competitive and then they have a promotional

394
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:32,000
exam to get hired off of open competitive is for the general public and the promotional

395
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,960
is for them to, they promote you from EMT paramedic to fire.

396
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,760
I know it could be different in other States, but yeah, where I work, it's they promote

397
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,120
you.

398
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:47,040
The promotional comes out every two years, if I'm not mistaken, it's been a bit, and

399
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,680
the open competitive is every four years, whatever.

400
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:54,200
So when I'm there, a lot of guys took that promotional test and they're waiting for their

401
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,200
physical.

402
00:23:55,200 --> 00:24:00,280
So all they talked around the station was they're talking about fitness, talking about

403
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,440
their heart rates, they're getting in shape, they're talking about the run.

404
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,040
And I'm like, what are you guys talking about?

405
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,200
And they would just explain, Hey, listen, we're trying to go to fire.

406
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,840
And they told me all about it.

407
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:08,840
They told me the benefits.

408
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,620
They told me about the job.

409
00:24:11,620 --> 00:24:16,000
And that's when I really realized, I'm like, wow, this seems like a lot of fun.

410
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,480
I think I could do this.

411
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,000
So that's kind of how fire got put on my radar.

412
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,440
I was an EMT for about five years.

413
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:29,600
I took the following promotional, and then I went to paramedic school for a brief stint.

414
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,000
So I don't know if I can call myself a paramedic.

415
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,840
I went to the class.

416
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,680
I passed the final, but I never worked a day as a medic.

417
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:42,980
But right when I had a week left and then fire academy started, so I just took the final

418
00:24:42,980 --> 00:24:45,040
and then I went right into the fire academy.

419
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,360
But that's kind of how I found out about the fire department.

420
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:54,360
That's kind of how I learned about how it works, the benefits, the perks, the schedule.

421
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:58,000
Everything that I found out about the fire department was like, I need to do this.

422
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:03,280
I mean, you had a hell of a skill set to bring into the fire service, though, whether you

423
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:04,440
worked as a medic or not.

424
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,880
I mean, that was still tools in the toolbox.

425
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:07,880
Yes.

426
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,440
Yeah, I was already helping people.

427
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,420
So it was just like another way to help people.

428
00:25:12,420 --> 00:25:17,240
So when you look back on the EMT side, before we get to the fire side now, what were some

429
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:22,640
of the what we would call career calls you had in those five years?

430
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,040
So yeah, I was very young.

431
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,040
I was 18, man.

432
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:31,080
I had delivered my first like right when I got off that probation unit, that training

433
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,080
unit, my first tour, I delivered a baby.

434
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,360
And it was like it was me and another intern.

435
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:38,360
So it's like both of us.

436
00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:40,120
It was strange.

437
00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:48,520
But it's messed up, man, because you're always you're there at people's worst.

438
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:54,320
So when you say career calls, are you asking like just some of the calls that stand out?

439
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,800
Yeah, because I mean, the worst thing you can ask any of us is what's the worst thing

440
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:58,800
you've seen.

441
00:25:58,800 --> 00:25:59,800
So it's not about that.

442
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,480
It could be, you know, like you said, delivering a child.

443
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:08,960
Like, for example, one of my shifts, I was on I think I was on shift and then I went

444
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,120
to my medic ride along.

445
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:13,560
I extubated a term Leo patient.

446
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:19,040
So I basically took a life and then I delivered a baby and brought life into this world all

447
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,340
within about 24 hours of each other.

448
00:26:21,340 --> 00:26:25,160
So that's one thing not horrific, but it was just, you know, a memorable thing.

449
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,440
And obviously, there's I'm writing my second book, I literally was writing about one of

450
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,600
my worst calls just like an hour before we sat down.

451
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:32,640
That was fucking awful.

452
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:37,840
But so yeah, just any anything that you when you look back, you know, was powerful to you.

453
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,280
Oh, so yeah, that was a big one.

454
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:41,760
Just delivering a baby.

455
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:46,520
But I don't know, man.

456
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:52,920
It's just what comes to mind is I can go on and tell you about the shootings, the stabbings,

457
00:26:52,920 --> 00:27:00,440
but it's just it just for me, it puts me in a that job put me in a strange mindset because

458
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,120
you start you start to see how people treat each other.

459
00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:08,040
And that, you know, that if you're not strong enough, that kind of that could mess with

460
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,040
you a little bit.

461
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,120
So a lot of I'll be honest with you, a lot of the runs on all other calls, they all kind

462
00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:13,480
of blend together.

463
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,000
All the stuff that deal with kids are probably the worst.

464
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,000
Those really cut the most.

465
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,960
You know, those are never fun.

466
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,680
But yeah, it just puts a different perspective on the way you see life.

467
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,320
You see life differently when you start start that job.

468
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,000
I really like the job.

469
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,360
Honestly, I'll be honest with you.

470
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:32,360
Don't tell anybody.

471
00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:34,480
I'm not going to tell anybody.

472
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:35,480
Go back.

473
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,240
But I had a good partner.

474
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,240
You know, you listen to music in between calls while you're driving around.

475
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,800
I didn't mind it.

476
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,920
My department at the time, it could it was a little crab in the barrel.

477
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,480
Like, you know, people were kind of going after each other, but which completely changed

478
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,120
when I joined the suppression side.

479
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:56,600
But yeah, I really liked it.

480
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:02,320
It was not every day you have to be scooping up gunshot victims, you know, in

481
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:03,320
the morning.

482
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,640
You don't have to be all that, which it is a 90 percent of the time.

483
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,640
One of my strongest memories, I've been interested to see if you had the same thing when you

484
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,440
were in the ambulance.

485
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,600
I remember driving up Orange Blossom Trail in Orlando, which is our kind of red light

486
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:20,520
district and a lot of poverty and violence as well.

487
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,720
And we're driving up in what we call the rescue.

488
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,240
So it's an ambulance with firefighter gear on it.

489
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:30,240
And I just remember, you know, like sex workers and gang members all just like waving to us

490
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:31,240
when we were going by.

491
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:37,320
I'm like, there is not another vehicle on planet Earth that the most desperate people

492
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,200
in society would wave to.

493
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,760
But the end of the day, if something horrific happens to them, we're the very last people

494
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,240
that they're probably going to see, hopefully save their life.

495
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:47,360
So did you have that?

496
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,860
I mean, obviously you're working in a pretty rough neighborhood.

497
00:28:49,860 --> 00:28:55,800
Was there a kind of reverence of you guys and your profession specifically amidst a

498
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,840
lot of this desperation?

499
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,160
I didn't really get that too much when I was driving an ambulance, unfortunately.

500
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,840
That's like when you become a firefighter, you're like a local celebrity.

501
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,480
Everyone waves, stops and waves.

502
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:13,920
But it wasn't, I'll be honest, it's sad to say like law enforcement has it pretty bad.

503
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,360
So we didn't have it as bad as law enforcement because it's like a thankless job those guys

504
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:19,360
have right now.

505
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:20,360
It's tough.

506
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:25,920
But yeah, I didn't really have that happen when I was in EMT.

507
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,600
No one's ever really happy to see you.

508
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:32,320
When you pull up in an ambulance, people are kind of screaming like, hurry up, you know,

509
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,000
hurry up.

510
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,320
It's funny though, like you said about being told to go back when you're a firefighter,

511
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,240
because over here we get to be both simultaneously.

512
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,560
So I'm a firefighter paramedic.

513
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:48,320
But there is this kind of rhetoric about, I don't want to do EMS, I just want to do

514
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,960
fire, especially when we are dual certified here.

515
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,520
But I always say, okay, well, you make the most heroic rescue.

516
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,320
You do a right hand search, you drag them out onto the front porch.

517
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,600
Now what?

518
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,840
You just remove the corpse until an EMT or a paramedic and ultimately doctors and nurses

519
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,480
interact and hopefully save that person's life.

520
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:14,840
So I never understood that kind of anti-EMS sentiment because ultimately, whether you

521
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,040
like it or not, you save lives in the back of a rescue.

522
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,040
You 100% right.

523
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,120
And I think everybody knows that deep down.

524
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,240
They just don't want to, you know, what it is.

525
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,040
We're here to help people, you know, and you probably have a better chance bringing somebody

526
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,800
back doing CPR versus you.

527
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,080
Like how often are you dragging people out of fires?

528
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,640
Well, I guess it depends on where you work.

529
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,560
Yeah, I've only dragged dead people out of fire.

530
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,160
So I'm over whatever now.

531
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,760
Well, then one more question before we move to fire.

532
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:55,200
When you look back now with this mature perspective that you have an 18 year old boy being thrusted

533
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,920
into that world straight away.

534
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,000
There's conversations about the fact that our brains haven't kind of matured yet.

535
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,920
And I was just by chance, I was, I didn't get into the fire service till I was 27.

536
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,880
So I, you know, my poor little tiny brain had been given some chance to mature, but

537
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,480
there is a lot of conversation about, are we putting, you know, our kids into first

538
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,840
responder professions too early and exposing them to trauma where maybe they're not quite

539
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:18,020
ready yet.

540
00:31:18,020 --> 00:31:22,000
So what's your perspective starting so long as young yourself and being thrust into a

541
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,320
pretty, pretty desperate area?

542
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:26,600
Oh man.

543
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:27,600
So I don't know.

544
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:33,280
I never said this before, but I remember I was in a bad place, man.

545
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:38,680
I was, cause I just, everything was just seeing so much, seeing so much.

546
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:42,120
I will just remember mentally just being in a bad place.

547
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,840
So I get mental health is huge for us.

548
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,200
Luckily, I didn't, you know, I didn't, it didn't send me off the deep end.

549
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:55,600
So I was able to bounce back, but I do remember being like 19, 20 and just in my mind, I just

550
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,280
like nothing made sense to me.

551
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:58,800
I was like, what's the point?

552
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:05,520
You know, it was, I remember being in a bad head space at that time.

553
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:06,520
I don't know.

554
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,200
I don't know what pulled me out of it, to be honest with you, but I do remember that

555
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:15,520
looking back, I do remember just thinking to myself, you know, how, how important mental

556
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,520
health is mental health is huge, man.

557
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,720
It's kind of an issue we're having now, you know, every now and then, unfortunately we're

558
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:29,520
having guys who succumb to challenges they face, you know.

559
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:34,120
I've seen a few FDNY death notifications and it breaks my heart because every time there's

560
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,920
not an explanation of what happened, you know, it's either, you know, it's a suicide or an

561
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:40,560
overdose, you know, basically.

562
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,720
So and those are the same things to me.

563
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:43,720
They're exactly the same.

564
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,000
It's, it's a mental health crisis.

565
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:51,240
And, you know, when you, when you look back and you think that, like, I've got a 16 year

566
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,280
old at the moment who's a junior.

567
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:57,400
So all you knew until 18, as you said, you're even doing some extra credits to make sure

568
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:58,600
that you graduate.

569
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:03,360
All you knew was the classroom and then, you know, summer break and that kind of thing.

570
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,840
And so when you transition out and they're like, Thomas, all right, here's the real world

571
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:12,080
now and your echo chamber is everyone's worst night, worst day.

572
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,240
How is that not going to skew your perspective of the world?

573
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:22,280
Yeah, I remember for maybe a year straight, I just remembered being just, I was probably

574
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,480
a terror to be around.

575
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,280
I was just like, what's the point?

576
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:31,880
Kind of like, but yeah, thank God I didn't stay there long, you know.

577
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:33,880
But yeah.

578
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:34,880
Yeah.

579
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,800
Well, thank you for sharing that because I think, you know, all of us go through stuff,

580
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,600
you know, but when, and if you had this when you were younger, you know, we look at the

581
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,600
other guys and girls and we're like, well, they're all fine.

582
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,320
Why am I the one that's going through this?

583
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,440
But none of us are fine.

584
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:49,440
How can you?

585
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,680
You're going to be a sociopath if you were fine, like truly fine, unaphased by all the

586
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,320
horrific things that we see.

587
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,800
I think something that could be beneficial, if I could give a piece of advice to like

588
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:06,080
my younger self would be just to get a support system, you know, even, you know, just to

589
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,520
have somebody or have a group of people, even if it's your family, just try, it's probably

590
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:11,520
easier said than done.

591
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,760
If I had to support a better support system, you know, maybe it would have helped me like

592
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,280
navigate that a little better.

593
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,080
But that's the one piece of advice.

594
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:26,520
Try to get it, try to get a support system, a couple of people you trust to help you work

595
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,080
through things, you know.

596
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:29,080
Absolutely.

597
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:30,320
And especially outside the fire service.

598
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,680
I think people don't realize that when you're in a crew getting beat down, you know, once

599
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:39,700
every three days, 24 hours, you're all in the same meat grinder.

600
00:34:39,700 --> 00:34:44,120
So you're not a good barometer on how each of you is doing, but your family members and

601
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,280
your friends, they're the ones that be like, wow, you look like shit today.

602
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:48,280
What's going on?

603
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,280
You need that honesty.

604
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:51,280
Yeah.

605
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:52,280
Yeah.

606
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,280
Mental health, man.

607
00:34:54,280 --> 00:35:01,400
Yeah, but it was a, I mean, I had honesty.

608
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,240
It's, I haven't really thought about those days in a while, you know, you bring up thinking

609
00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:06,720
back of all that stuff, man.

610
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:11,120
I had a lot of good memories working in EMS, but I do remember, you know, it can weigh

611
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:12,120
on you.

612
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:13,840
I know I didn't go through it particularly.

613
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:18,200
I know when COVID happened, a lot of people, a lot of EMTs had a hard time as well, just

614
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:24,040
with the stuff that they saw, you know, and the runs they were running, you know.

615
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:25,040
Yeah.

616
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,040
All right.

617
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,440
Well, thank you again for your transparency there.

618
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:34,440
Moving on to the fire side then, and I absolutely adore the fire side too.

619
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,400
You know, you do this promotional test.

620
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,360
You like myself had no real family in fire, so I didn't really know, you know, I just

621
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,360
knew ladder 49 and back draft.

622
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,600
That's about the only introduction I got to the American fire service.

623
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,000
So what was your transition like?

624
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,920
Walk me through your probation there and then where you were assigned.

625
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:53,920
Okay.

626
00:35:53,920 --> 00:36:00,680
So the fire academy was, it was interesting, you know, it was fun, challenging.

627
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:08,640
I got assigned to engine 290, ladder 1, engine 290, firehouses 290, 103 in East New York,

628
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,120
Brooklyn, back to Brooklyn.

629
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,640
It was a busy shop.

630
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:14,920
Everyone says they're in the busy shop.

631
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,720
You ask anybody and after you, where do you work?

632
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:20,120
You know, it was busy.

633
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:25,920
Funny enough that the engine I worked, they did a lot of EMS, a lot of EMS calls and they

634
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,920
also did a decent amount of fire.

635
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,680
It's very, it's one of the tougher houses on the job.

636
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:37,760
So I'm super grateful I got sent there because even though we ran around a lot, there was

637
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,040
a lot of training, a lot of drilling and I learned discipline there.

638
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:47,880
I learned how to be disciplined and focused and I learned to pay attention to the small

639
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:48,880
details.

640
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,080
There was a lot of little details and you know, if you don't pay attention, they all

641
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,640
start to add up and I'm glad because I think if I went somewhere that was really laid back,

642
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,400
I'd probably be, you know, wherever I went is what I would have came, you know, and I'm

643
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,760
glad I went there because it taught me all the stuff I need that kind of helped me move

644
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,160
forward.

645
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:11,680
What was it about the officers or the leaders in the station that created that culture?

646
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,880
Because if I hear EMS, I hear, you know, high frequency of fire, but I also hear training

647
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:20,200
and drilling, which I think is so important, even more important if you're in a quiet station.

648
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,520
So when you think back as far as leadership, you know, what were the qualities that created

649
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,620
that culture?

650
00:37:26,620 --> 00:37:30,200
So one thing I noticed immediately when I got in the fire service and I got walked in

651
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:35,600
that firehouse, it felt like it didn't feel like it felt like the guys, the bosses were

652
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,920
working with you, you know, if like they'll be on the hose, humping the hose with you

653
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:46,520
versus when I was on the other side, it was kind of telling you what to do, you know,

654
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,520
it felt like the higher ups were with you.

655
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:54,760
So the captain we had, he just retired actually like a month ago.

656
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:56,200
He never raised his voice.

657
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,960
He one thing that was huge is he always if you were you did what you're supposed to do,

658
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,960
he would always go to bat for you no matter what, which was huge, which I wasn't used

659
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:05,600
to.

660
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:11,200
And again, the big thing for me was just feeling like the guys, the bosses, they earned your

661
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,440
respect because they were they were doing it with you.

662
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,800
They wouldn't actually do anything that they wouldn't do.

663
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:23,920
Yeah, that reminds me a lot of my, my favorite crew, I'll be completely honest in Anaheim,

664
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,680
California, my my captain is exactly the same.

665
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:33,400
He was a ginger wrestler when he was younger, you know, construction his whole life as well.

666
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:38,680
And you know, big old bushy red mustache, and he would just get off and, you know, look

667
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,800
around and then he just say like three words and he knew exactly what needed to be done.

668
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,360
But just like you said, he never raised his voice, we'd have to fight him at the kitchen

669
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,600
sink for the dishes, you know, fighting for the brush on the rig.

670
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,040
I mean, you name it, but that's that's a leader that's not a boss.

671
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,120
And I think that's the difference.

672
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:02,520
Another thing that I really loved about my firehouse that first fire I got sent to was

673
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:08,000
they had like most firehouses have it, but it was just like such a I've never experienced

674
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,960
it before, like the sense of pride that everyone had.

675
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:17,760
You know, everyone, everyone had a sense of pride and it was so it wasn't just about it's

676
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,960
like if you got detailed out, you were representing that company.

677
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:27,400
So they made sure you had you like you were squared away all across the board.

678
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:32,440
And if you're associated with this firehouse, it's going to be associated with, you know,

679
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:33,440
professionalism.

680
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,440
That was huge.

681
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:36,440
Absolutely.

682
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:44,160
I always remember just that feeling and that crew, for example, that feeling when you get

683
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,800
on scene that you can just tell people are glad that your crew got on scene, you know,

684
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:54,200
that you added value to that crew or that scene rather than others that I've seen to

685
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,520
get off the scene because they were removing so much value at that moment.

686
00:39:58,520 --> 00:39:59,520
Yeah.

687
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,560
Yeah, it's exactly that.

688
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:03,360
It's super grateful for I don't know.

689
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:04,360
I don't know.

690
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:05,600
Somebody must have liked me.

691
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,560
I'm very grateful I got sent there.

692
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,240
It definitely set the trajectory for me.

693
00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:13,760
So where were you after that?

694
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:19,060
So I was there for about eight years and I just recently got sent over to squad one also

695
00:40:19,060 --> 00:40:21,360
in Brooklyn Park Slope.

696
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:26,280
I'd been there for about two years now, two or three years now.

697
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,000
And special operations, we have squads and rescues and stuff.

698
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,160
So it's a little extra training, a little extra equipment.

699
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,160
But you got to have one a minimum of five years and they like, you know, you got to

700
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,180
have some experience, you know, they don't want to teach you basic firefighting.

701
00:40:42,180 --> 00:40:44,920
You got to have that squared away before you get there.

702
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,960
And when I got there, I was just so grateful because a lot of stuff I didn't feel behind

703
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:49,960
the eight ball at all.

704
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:54,280
Well, with some of the newer stuff, the technical stuff, I didn't know, obviously, but a lot

705
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,920
of a lot of stuff I was prepared.

706
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,360
I was well prepared coming from the house I came from.

707
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,740
So I was super grateful.

708
00:41:01,740 --> 00:41:03,760
So what was the skill set for a squad specifically?

709
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:08,000
Because I know we use all these different terms depending on where we are in the country.

710
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,800
So what would a squad company be responsible for?

711
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:17,000
So squad companies are they're like basically a manpower pool.

712
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,400
So we pull up to the command post.

713
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,520
We pretty much do whatever needs to get done.

714
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,120
We have basic assignments, right?

715
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,520
We have assignments that we have kind of in stone.

716
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,880
But if we get there and the chief has something else for us to do, we kind of take on that

717
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:32,880
task.

718
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:42,480
So for example, if it's a five story building, first, first, first do go to the first floor.

719
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,000
Second do goes to the second floor.

720
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,960
Who's checking three, four and five?

721
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:52,480
Like we could get sent to go check the upper floors or if it's a roller stores, right?

722
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,320
Maybe first do is in five building.

723
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,000
Second do goes to exposure two.

724
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,200
Like who's checking the other stuff?

725
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,080
So we kind of fill in the gaps.

726
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,240
Squads operate in their first do response area as an engine.

727
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:13,680
But aside from that, you know, we operate pretty much like a truck and we respond to

728
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,720
any fires in the borough on our half of the borough.

729
00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:19,520
So we split the borough with squad 252.

730
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:24,080
So on our half of the borough, any fire calls, we go there, operate as a squad.

731
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,500
But in our first response area, we operate as an engine.

732
00:42:27,500 --> 00:42:29,640
Who normally gets assigned rent?

733
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:35,280
I've had varying dynamics in the four departments I work for.

734
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,080
Sometimes it was a special operations guys.

735
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,720
Sometimes it was, you know, one or two rescues put together.

736
00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:42,600
So what about with your borough?

737
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,480
So we have the squads, right?

738
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:46,960
And again, we're like a manpower pool.

739
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,480
We kind of just fill the gaps to get things done.

740
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:51,480
Rescues for my mistake.

741
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,920
And these guys were made, they were created to save firemen.

742
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,440
They do way more now, right?

743
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,880
So command is grown, but that's kind of, so when they get assigned, there's one rescue

744
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,880
in every borough and they get assigned to every fire and they kind of go there.

745
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,160
And that's kind of one of the things that they do.

746
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,600
But we, on our regular assignments, we have a, we have a fast team.

747
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:18,960
So our third responding truck, they operate as the fast team or you guys would say RIT.

748
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:23,400
So most, we don't, surprisingly, the fast truck doesn't get put to work often.

749
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:24,680
Thank God it's a good thing.

750
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:33,520
But our third responding truck on every fire is the, the fast team or the RIT team.

751
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:38,640
Has there been an increase in conversation on rope rescue after the thing you had too

752
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:39,640
recently?

753
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:40,640
Oh man.

754
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:41,640
I remember being in Probie school.

755
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,240
I remember being in the academy thinking we're never going to do this.

756
00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:46,720
Cowboy stuff.

757
00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:48,800
We're never sending anybody over.

758
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,120
And then since I've been a fireman, it's probably been like five or six.

759
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,920
It's just, yeah.

760
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:59,400
Whenever something big like that happens or something like that, it's fairly rare and

761
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,040
it's probably one of the more dangerous things we do.

762
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:03,040
Yeah.

763
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,040
It's, it's, it goes job wide.

764
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:06,200
Everyone's talking about it.

765
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:07,800
Everyone's asking what this guy did.

766
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:09,760
How did he set it up?

767
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,640
You know, you know, it's, it's, it's good.

768
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:13,860
It's good to get people talking.

769
00:44:13,860 --> 00:44:17,400
It's good for the, maybe the companies that are in, people who are engines who don't really

770
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:18,400
do rope stuff.

771
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,760
You know, it's good to get everyone talking, drilling on it again.

772
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,800
But I was on vacation when it happened.

773
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:28,680
So I, you know, I was kind of out of the loop, but the most recent one.

774
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:29,680
Yeah.

775
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:30,680
Brilliant.

776
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:35,600
Well, now you're wearing a firefight uniform engine and then squad again, career calls,

777
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,800
ones that you really remember.

778
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:38,800
Hmm.

779
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:43,000
I guess the ones that I really remembered is nothing glamorous.

780
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,720
It's you know, one that ones that stick out as your first fire, right?

781
00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:50,720
I remember the boss and I remember him talking to me, like you want to get in there and just

782
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:52,680
put the fire out and he's kind of telling you, relax.

783
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,160
He's telling you, look at the flames.

784
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:55,960
He's kind of talking you through it.

785
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:57,240
Like those are things I remember.

786
00:44:57,240 --> 00:45:00,880
I remember, I don't know what we, how, how graphic we can get.

787
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:02,520
I remember my first couple fires.

788
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,760
I'd never had people jump.

789
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,560
That was, that was a people jumping out of windows.

790
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:13,020
That was a, a strange feeling.

791
00:45:13,020 --> 00:45:16,960
Or even if you're outside, you're waiting for water and you could hear the crowd.

792
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:17,960
Everyone go, Ooh.

793
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,240
And you're like, you know, some, you know, people are jumping.

794
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:23,720
That kind of, those things kind of stick out to me.

795
00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:24,720
What else?

796
00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:26,440
I don't know if you're looking for good stories, man.

797
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,440
I'm just talking.

798
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:34,720
Anything anywhere you want to go, I sit there in the door.

799
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:40,640
It's like a lot of the, the earlier stuff, that's kind of what sticks into my mind.

800
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:45,400
Cause after a while, everything is kind of like, you know, so it kind of blends together.

801
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:50,480
I would say this, like some of the, like some of the best people and the smartest people

802
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:56,120
I've met in the, like, on the fire department, like I've met some really rock stars and really

803
00:45:56,120 --> 00:46:01,440
smart people, really brave people, man, who think of things that I didn't even, I don't

804
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:02,440
even think about.

805
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,800
It's like, you have people on this job or like chemists and stuff like that.

806
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,320
Like there's some real brilliant people working on the fire department, man.

807
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,520
And I'm glad I've had the pleasure of working in fire houses with some of these people.

808
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:15,520
Absolutely.

809
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,120
Well, you mentioned first fire.

810
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,920
I think one of the first fires I had in my first department, I had to buy cake and ice

811
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,400
cream and then I can't remember some of the other ones.

812
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,560
I think maybe steak and lobster was one of them, which was really expensive for a pro

813
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:28,900
be with almost no money.

814
00:46:28,900 --> 00:46:32,440
And then Orange County, you had your t-shirt ripped off you.

815
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:36,640
So what's the tradition when you're first fire in your department?

816
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:37,840
There's no tradition.

817
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:38,840
Maybe it's not no tradition.

818
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:39,840
It's my fire.

819
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:41,760
They kind of tell you, you did your job.

820
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:42,760
Shut up.

821
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:43,760
I like that more.

822
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:44,760
It's cheaper.

823
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:52,400
You know, but even though they don't say it, they know, like they know, you know, they

824
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,520
know a big thing when you get sent to an engine, they want to see what you're made of.

825
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,840
They want to see your stuff.

826
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,200
And like once guys see that you're not going to guys want to make sure you don't, you're

827
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,520
not going to give up, you know, you don't got to be the greatest in the world, but they

828
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,920
got to make sure you're not going to give up.

829
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:12,000
And once you kind of show what you got, they ease up a little bit, a little bit.

830
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,120
Are you still at the firefighter rank at the moment?

831
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,480
Yeah, still at the firefighter rank.

832
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,360
I stayed that for 14 years and I love that position.

833
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:24,120
And I just, you know, I mean, I moved around so that kind of took me away from the draw

834
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:25,820
of promotional tests.

835
00:47:25,820 --> 00:47:31,040
But when I really evaluated myself, I still absolutely love going inside, going on roofs

836
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,520
and cutting, you know, being on the tool and extrication.

837
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,800
So I just never lost that desire to just stay in that one seat.

838
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:43,680
But certainly, I don't know if it's the same with you, but down here with the high turnover,

839
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:48,920
you know, a lot of these departments, they're 50% or so, like at five years or less, and

840
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,720
people are kind of racing to promote.

841
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:57,760
I asked Al Benjamin this, who was on the show quite a while ago now, real, real senior man,

842
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,080
you know, rescue legend.

843
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,760
But you don't hear that often about the concept of the senior man.

844
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,600
Now I know, you know, you probably don't consider yourself that, but you're starting to get

845
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:09,480
towards that point now.

846
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:14,360
Talk to me about the value of staying at the firefighter rank up to this point.

847
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:15,360
Yes.

848
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:21,240
So one thing I also loved about the firehouses, everyone respects the men, I mean, respects

849
00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:24,960
the bosses, but the men run the house.

850
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,160
You know, the men run the house, everything gets ran by the senior man, the higher ups

851
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:34,320
before it goes to, you know, the bosses where they have to like, you know, put pen to paper.

852
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:38,040
But like, if you're in a really good firehouse, like it's got to be cakewalk as a boss, right?

853
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,800
The men make sure that meals are done, make sure the house is clean, make sure the drills

854
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:41,800
are getting done.

855
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,400
Of course, the bosses have their say in everything.

856
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:49,680
But it's huge because, say for instance, like my company, I mean, now it's we're in a weird

857
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:54,000
place of transition where a lot of the people with time are retiring.

858
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:55,000
It just is what it is.

859
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:56,000
They're leaving.

860
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,320
And it's kind of like there's so much stuff that I haven't seen, so many things I haven't

861
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,520
experienced yet.

862
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:06,600
And these guys have all that knowledge that they could kind of like, you know, pass on

863
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:07,800
and then, you know, they're leaving.

864
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,640
So unfortunately, the job turns over quick.

865
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:12,920
But you know, you know how it is, man.

866
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:14,880
You just got to get on the rig and do what you have to do.

867
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:21,360
But yeah, the senior man is a huge, so much value senior men bring because they just seen

868
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:22,820
so much.

869
00:49:22,820 --> 00:49:26,080
And they know like a big thing with being a firefighter, you don't have to be the strongest

870
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:27,080
guy.

871
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:28,080
You just got to, you got to be smart.

872
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:33,200
You got to be senior guys, you'll be pulling ceilings, breaking your back, pulling ceilings.

873
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:37,360
And you see a senior guy with a cigar in his mouth just coming like nothing, you know,

874
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:38,360
pull a room.

875
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:39,360
It's experience, man.

876
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:40,360
It's nothing like.

877
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:46,760
Yeah, no, it is amazing, you know, whether it's a, you know, a captain or an engineer

878
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:48,680
or a firefighter.

879
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:53,120
And I think this is the thing too, that I know lots of people with lots of time on that

880
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,840
aren't, you know, that aren't senior man quality.

881
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,640
They've just been there for a long time.

882
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,800
And then, you know, there's also people that have come from different departments that

883
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:05,800
have, you know, when a company with humility that are incredibly invaluable and they may

884
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:08,960
only have, you know, three years on your department.

885
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:13,840
But that experience and that knowledge sharing and that humility, I think is so important.

886
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:18,660
And it just, it kind of breaks my heart a little bit, you know, when people are barely

887
00:50:18,660 --> 00:50:21,400
at that firefighter level, now they're riding up as an engineer.

888
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:26,200
Now they're getting, you know, sorry, they're promoted to an engineer after three, two years.

889
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:31,440
And now they get to ride up as an officer and you've got like four years in the front

890
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:32,440
seat.

891
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:33,520
That's, you know, it's terrifying.

892
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:38,000
So I think pumping the brakes on that and just being proud of the firefighter position

893
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:39,320
is that you're in no rush.

894
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:40,760
And I get the financial side.

895
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:41,960
I understand it.

896
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:47,340
But did you dream of a certain pay raise when you were in Fire Academy or were you dreaming

897
00:50:47,340 --> 00:50:48,920
about saving lives?

898
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:53,360
So I love it when, you know, when I meet firefighters that just aren't in a rush, that are just

899
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,880
enjoying that position like I did.

900
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:57,880
That's exactly it.

901
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:58,880
Not in a rush.

902
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:00,040
The test was coming out.

903
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,040
I did start studying.

904
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,200
I'm always the type of guy to take every opportunity that comes my way.

905
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,840
So like even with the paramedic, like I take every anything.

906
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:13,480
But when the test came, you know, COVID and stuff happened, things got pushed away and

907
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:18,080
I just had time to think and I was really starting my business.

908
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:19,080
And I don't know.

909
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,560
I don't know if this sounds bad.

910
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,280
I didn't have any drive to be a boss.

911
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:24,720
I didn't have any drive to do it.

912
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:25,720
There's nothing against them.

913
00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:27,200
You know, I just didn't want to do it.

914
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,800
I'm having a good time to find my new firehouse.

915
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:30,800
I'm learning a lot.

916
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:31,800
I'm still learning.

917
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:33,560
I just didn't have to drive to do it.

918
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:40,160
But I felt like if I needed to this thing's I'm going to I hope I don't regret this.

919
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,000
Like I could be studying the books, but I don't know.

920
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,320
I could be I could be researching marketing, researching things that are going to help me

921
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,000
in my business, which I really have a big passion for business.

922
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:54,560
So I was like, you know what, I want to bet on myself and I want to kind of like focus

923
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,080
there, you know, I'll take the next test when it comes out.

924
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,960
Yeah, I don't think you're going to regret it at all.

925
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:01,280
I mean, it's always going to be there.

926
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,520
But I mean, for me, you know, where we are, you know, you're not looking at, you know,

927
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:06,880
brownstones and high rises.

928
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:11,760
You're looking at, you know, single story family dwellings, either side of about 1500

929
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:12,760
square feet.

930
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,940
So when we pull up on a fire, you know, me and my partner are going to be the ones pulling

931
00:52:16,940 --> 00:52:21,120
hose and make an entry and going in the engineers at the panel and the L.T. is going to be on

932
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:22,240
the radio.

933
00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:25,280
So of those three positions, I want to be the one on the hose going in.

934
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:28,600
I don't want to be standing looking at a gauge and I don't want to be talking dispatch.

935
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:29,760
That's just me.

936
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,640
So you know, so that that's just it.

937
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:32,640
And it kept me going.

938
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:39,100
And like you said, you know, when you've got 14 years on, you're like, I barely seen anything.

939
00:52:39,100 --> 00:52:40,100
That's 14 years.

940
00:52:40,100 --> 00:52:43,760
And yes, I've seen a lot, but nothing compared to my 30 year captain, for example.

941
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:49,280
So that's what kept me going is I don't want to be taken away from a position where I've

942
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:55,820
got the highest chance of being hands on and truly helping someone in crisis when I've

943
00:52:55,820 --> 00:52:57,800
got so much to learn still.

944
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:02,240
Yeah, that's exactly right.

945
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:03,620
We mentioned your business.

946
00:53:03,620 --> 00:53:09,800
So as a side note, before we dive into into what you're doing now, I love the concept

947
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:18,000
of people forging a second hobby, you know, alternate entrepreneurial project in a business,

948
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:22,120
whatever you have, how much you commit for two reasons.

949
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:27,120
Firstly, the identity reason, because we are firefighters is what we do.

950
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:31,160
And it's absolutely hands down the greatest profession on planet Earth.

951
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:33,020
But it's not who we are.

952
00:53:33,020 --> 00:53:39,040
And so when you create another project, you're kind of kind of breaking that facade a little

953
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:44,760
bit because you are Thomas, who is a firefighter and also an entrepreneur.

954
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:51,580
But also when you do transition out, it's an injury, you got fired, you made it to retirement.

955
00:53:51,580 --> 00:53:54,360
Now you have that to transition to.

956
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:57,600
And I think one of the worst things that we do in our profession is we go all in on the

957
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:58,780
job.

958
00:53:58,780 --> 00:54:02,880
And then one day the bay door closes behind us and we're like, well, now what?

959
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:06,720
So now I just want to kind of preface this conversation with those two observations.

960
00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:11,240
I love the fact of anyone doing something else on the side, as long as it doesn't obviously

961
00:54:11,240 --> 00:54:15,620
become more important than the fire service while they're in uniform.

962
00:54:15,620 --> 00:54:17,040
So talk to me about that.

963
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,020
You were studying business when you were young.

964
00:54:19,020 --> 00:54:23,560
You become an EMT, arguably a paramedic and then a firefighter.

965
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,460
Talk to me about the creation of Burnbox.

966
00:54:27,460 --> 00:54:31,960
So yeah, so back to when I first got to my first firehouse, there was a couple of gentlemen

967
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,600
there who had their own firefighter products.

968
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,200
I don't know if you've seen like that Halligan bottle opener.

969
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,680
I worked with a gentleman who owns that company.

970
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:42,760
Few guys had their own fabrication companies.

971
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:44,800
Guys are making tools.

972
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:51,200
There's a few tools on the rig that some guys jimmy rigged together for different type of

973
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:52,200
hydrogen plug.

974
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:57,840
Firefighters are the most creative bunch of people and every firefighter has three jobs.

975
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:02,360
So I just got on Instagram one day and I'm searching firefighter owned products.

976
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:07,560
And then I saw so many different brands where guys have apparel companies, guys making tools

977
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,000
like wedges and shove knives.

978
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,400
There's guys doing cups.

979
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,880
There's guys making pliers.

980
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:18,960
So many different things came up when I was looking up firefighter owned products.

981
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:22,320
I thought it'd be really cool if I could like curate all these products and like ship them

982
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,560
out.

983
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:30,300
The goal is if I could get one day get 10,000 people signed up and let's say Joe Fireman's

984
00:55:30,300 --> 00:55:34,160
making a tool in his garage and I can get the exposure.

985
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,440
I can get that out to 10,000 people.

986
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:37,640
I thought that'd be really cool.

987
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:39,360
So that's kind of what started it.

988
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:45,240
And that's kind of what the goal is to help support firefighter owned businesses.

989
00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:48,520
I had Trevor Williams on the show from Williams Key.

990
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:52,040
And firstly, my god, that guy's life story is amazing.

991
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,480
And he's a good looking dude as well.

992
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,120
He's what women think of when they think of a firefighter calendar.

993
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:58,120
Not my ugly ass.

994
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:01,160
But yeah, so that's a perfect example though.

995
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:08,020
You get a guy who comes from the carpentry world and locksmithing and then he finagles

996
00:56:08,020 --> 00:56:13,560
a tool to start getting the keyless entry into some of these places without destroying

997
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:15,080
their doors.

998
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,020
And now you have all the products that he's had.

999
00:56:17,020 --> 00:56:22,400
So talk to me about some of the companies that you've interacted with that you've used

1000
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,560
in the burn box that you really like.

1001
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,560
Yeah, Trevor is an absolute beast, man.

1002
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:28,560
He doesn't stop.

1003
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:29,560
He doesn't stop working.

1004
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:31,040
He's always working on something new, but he's great.

1005
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:34,000
I've worked with him a couple of times.

1006
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:38,000
I've worked with a few apparel companies like Hook and Irons apparel, those guys I work

1007
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,240
with a lot.

1008
00:56:40,240 --> 00:56:42,680
Axehead Threads, they're pretty popular print shop.

1009
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:46,240
As far as tools go, Job Town Tools.

1010
00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:50,080
He's another FDNY fireman, retired.

1011
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:51,080
He makes a lot of tools.

1012
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:52,080
Who else?

1013
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:53,760
Oh man, I can go on and on.

1014
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:55,360
I work with Modus Fire Rescue.

1015
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,360
Who else I work with?

1016
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:02,960
Oh man, I'm just drawing a blank.

1017
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:07,800
But I've worked with many firefighter owned companies.

1018
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:12,360
The beauty is just, I love it whenever I send a box out and customers get it and they say,

1019
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,700
oh, I didn't know this existed.

1020
00:57:14,700 --> 00:57:18,080
Or I send the box out and I get an email saying, hey, I used this thing twice already.

1021
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:19,080
Thank you.

1022
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:22,960
That's what keeps me going, man.

1023
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:24,440
That's the goal.

1024
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:30,160
Learn the word and provide discovery.

1025
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:34,520
I think it was about five, six years ago now.

1026
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:35,980
I think it was Christmas.

1027
00:57:35,980 --> 00:57:39,980
My wife and kids got me a present and it was a little crate.

1028
00:57:39,980 --> 00:57:46,640
And inside were four beer glasses that said, gearing Dog's Bollocks Brewery, which is,

1029
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:50,120
Dog's Bollocks is something we say when it's really good in England.

1030
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,500
And then there was the mats and then there was a couple of bags of nuts or something.

1031
00:57:53,500 --> 00:57:56,920
There was such a unique, interesting gift.

1032
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,720
Because I mean, especially now when we have Amazon and everything, how many of us just

1033
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:01,840
buy things straight away?

1034
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:07,280
So talk to me about the concept of Burnbox and what people would be receiving every month.

1035
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:08,280
Okay.

1036
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:12,680
So basically what I try to do is give you something that you can use every month, like

1037
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:17,600
try to give you a functional tool or piece of gear.

1038
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:22,160
So I've done fire hoods, I've done pliers, I've done multi tools.

1039
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,080
We've done shove knives, Williams key, we've done webbing.

1040
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:29,160
We've done, I try to give you something, at least one thing that you could use that day

1041
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:31,160
when you get your box.

1042
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,080
I try to make it a satisfying package.

1043
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:35,920
So I also try to do a piece of apparel.

1044
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,080
So that could be a t-shirt, a hat or a belt.

1045
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:43,200
And then you've got your other items like, you know, your key chains, your tumblers,

1046
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:46,800
your coasters, your bags and stuff like that.

1047
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:48,760
I try to make it a satisfying package every month.

1048
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:50,520
I don't want to be the tool of the month.

1049
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:52,440
I don't want to be the shirt of the month.

1050
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:56,240
I try to get a couple of brands, a couple of things to send.

1051
00:58:56,240 --> 00:59:03,520
It's about a 55 to $100, 55 to $65 box, but it's valued like 75 to 100 depending on the

1052
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:04,520
month.

1053
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:09,780
And the goal is just to spread discovery, functionality, and it's another way to support

1054
00:59:09,780 --> 00:59:12,640
other firefighter-owned businesses.

1055
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,240
Talk to me about from day one and how you grew it.

1056
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:21,800
Like how did you go from having this idea to actually putting it in action?

1057
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:26,280
So I had the idea for like two years before I actually pulled the trigger on it.

1058
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:27,920
I had that idea for two years.

1059
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:31,040
I didn't pull the trigger on it.

1060
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:36,320
One day, you know, I made a change and I said, you know, enough's enough.

1061
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:40,640
I used to do a lot of party and I was one of the guys in the firehouse who liked to

1062
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:42,640
always hang out.

1063
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:47,680
I quit boozing and stuff and I started focusing, trying to get focused.

1064
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:51,280
So I started the burn box just to keep busy.

1065
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:52,280
And I started it.

1066
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:54,680
I'll be honest with you, I didn't think anybody was going to subscribe.

1067
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:57,640
I didn't think, you know, or more than a month.

1068
00:59:57,640 --> 00:59:59,280
And then I just tried to be strategic.

1069
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,880
I tried to partner with brands that had a following.

1070
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:05,040
I tried to do cross promotion.

1071
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:08,560
Brands that like, so three different brands have 20,000 followers.

1072
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:13,080
I figured if I put them all in my box, I'd have 60,000 people potentially looking at

1073
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:14,080
it.

1074
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:15,080
So I did all that.

1075
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:17,040
It was a, I had that deal for a long time.

1076
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,920
It took, I'll be honest, it took a while for me to get the strength to launch it, you know,

1077
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:23,080
because who wants to fail?

1078
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:27,280
And that goes out to anybody who has a dream, wants to start something, you know, just go

1079
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:29,560
for it.

1080
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:30,560
But that's what I did.

1081
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:32,640
And first month I got 40 people signed up.

1082
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:37,000
I thought I was going to have more, had 40 people and then like every month it just kept

1083
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:38,000
doubling.

1084
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:43,800
And I think we're rounding out about maybe 2,200, 2,200 right now.

1085
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,080
So it's, it's doing okay.

1086
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:50,920
It's getting harder to find products the more I grow, but it's a challenge and I'm having

1087
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:51,920
fun.

1088
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:55,000
Now, what about the, the curve?

1089
01:00:55,000 --> 01:01:00,100
Because for example, when I started the podcast, you know, it went from one download to two

1090
01:01:00,100 --> 01:01:04,560
downloads to four downloads, you know, and that there's, there's this, this facade of

1091
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,800
overnight success, you know, in, in business, in podcasts.

1092
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:11,560
Casting and everything, you know, and then you look, for example, you see someone who's

1093
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:14,840
in three films that year and you're like, wow, they must have, you know, they got their

1094
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:15,840
big break.

1095
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:20,640
And then, you know, five months later, you see them on some Disney TV show and oh, oh,

1096
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:24,640
they've been acting for 20 years, you know, and it's just that that was their day.

1097
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:28,960
So because it's very, very discouraging, I think, because we are sold this kind of over

1098
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:33,040
overnight success facade and it can, it can really kind of take the wind out of people's

1099
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:36,640
sales when the first month they see 40 orders, for example.

1100
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:46,640
So what, what was, what kept you going if you had higher expectations than what originally

1101
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:47,640
happened?

1102
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:54,960
Well, the main thing is, I think if you're going to start something, it's, I think you

1103
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:58,800
could probably attest to this because I'm sure recording a podcast consistently isn't,

1104
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:02,480
you know, easy, but consistency is huge.

1105
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:05,960
And I guess I want to say the word fortitude because it's going to, you have to have a

1106
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:11,120
passion for it because when it gets hard, that passions, what's going to keep you going?

1107
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:14,560
Because if not, I'll be lying if I said I didn't have months where I just didn't want

1108
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:15,560
to do it anymore.

1109
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,800
The day before shipping a product is missing or broken.

1110
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:19,800
You know, what are you going to do?

1111
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:25,600
I got to find a couple hundred of D, you know, it's not all it's, it's that passion that's

1112
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:30,560
going to keep you going when it's, when it doesn't look good.

1113
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:33,200
So if you're going to start something, just make sure it's something you're passionate

1114
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:34,200
about.

1115
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,720
I don't know how to do that, but I think that that passion is what's going to carry you

1116
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:44,440
through when things aren't looking good because you're going to have a lot of bad days.

1117
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:49,000
It might be a strip of like a week or two in a row, just nothing's going right.

1118
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:53,080
You know, and everything in your body is telling you to shut this down.

1119
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:56,240
You got to be passionate about it and to keep going.

1120
01:02:56,240 --> 01:03:03,080
And cause I've had, I'm fortunate that I have a job, so I was able to take risks, more risk

1121
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:06,680
with the business than I needed to because I, you know, my family was going to eat no

1122
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:07,680
matter what.

1123
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:08,680
I had to have a job, right?

1124
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:14,200
So, you know, maybe the first year wasn't the best year, but it was, it was a learning.

1125
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:16,560
I learned, you know, I was building proof of concept.

1126
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:20,680
I was learning the ins and outs of stuff and I was fortunate enough that I have a job where

1127
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:23,640
I could, you know, my family's fine.

1128
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,000
So that would be a piece of advice.

1129
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,960
Just make sure if there's something that you're into, just be passionate about it because

1130
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:33,880
that passion is what's going to carry you through the days you don't feel like getting

1131
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:34,880
up.

1132
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:38,160
You don't feel like sending those emails, you know, dealing with unhappy customers.

1133
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:43,800
One month I had sent out a couple hundred boxes, the wrong shirts.

1134
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:46,080
Everyone got the wrong shirt size.

1135
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:51,480
Like everything in me wanted to say, this is it, you know?

1136
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:55,560
But it's, you know, just got to keep going.

1137
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:56,560
I do.

1138
01:03:56,560 --> 01:04:00,800
I actually literally, I mean, recently told, you know, turned to my son or my wife who's

1139
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:07,320
ever around at that moment, you know, when it's 1130 at night, midnight, and I'm still

1140
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:11,440
finishing editing because I've had technical problems and I'm, you know, come hell or high

1141
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:15,000
war, I'm going to put this podcast on the same days that I've said, you know, for the

1142
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,200
last seven years now.

1143
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:21,140
And I just turned to them and say, this is, this is what people don't see.

1144
01:04:21,140 --> 01:04:23,160
This is why, like you said, their consistency.

1145
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:25,160
It's easy to be consistent on the good days.

1146
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,920
Can you be consistent on the shit ones?

1147
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:29,920
That's so true, man.

1148
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:33,640
And it's also like, like you said, you do all this work for this many years and then

1149
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:35,760
people see you and you're, oh, you're an overnight success.

1150
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:36,760
Like they have no idea.

1151
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:41,680
Like a lot of people, like this subscription, a lot of people told me they had the idea,

1152
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:43,600
but they just, you know, it's a lot of work.

1153
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:45,960
How do you get all these vendors and all those products?

1154
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:47,880
And I would sit up to three, four in the morning.

1155
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:51,520
I have notebooks of just me just planning this stuff out and no one sees that.

1156
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:53,760
No one, no one, no one ever know.

1157
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:58,720
I have those, those books of the weeks I stood up trying to make, trying to run the numbers

1158
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:00,160
and make it work, you know?

1159
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:01,160
Yeah.

1160
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:02,160
Building boxes, you know?

1161
01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:05,360
Well, like they say, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

1162
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:10,560
So I think when you, when you, when you actually start something like this, you kind of get

1163
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:13,760
a new respect for people that have built things from nothing.

1164
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:15,800
Oh yeah, for sure.

1165
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:16,800
Yep.

1166
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:17,800
All right.

1167
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:20,240
Well, I want to go to some closing questions and obviously we'll talk about where people

1168
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:21,240
can get the, the burn box.

1169
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:26,520
But before we do, is there a book or are there books that you love to recommend?

1170
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:30,240
It can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated.

1171
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:31,960
Oh man.

1172
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:36,560
So I'm not, I'll be honest, I'm not a big book guy, but there are two books that I've

1173
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:42,080
read recently and then not, they're nothing fancy, nothing, but there's an, an entrepreneur

1174
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:44,600
out there, Alex Homozi.

1175
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:47,280
He has a book called a hundred million dollars offers.

1176
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:51,400
And then he has another book called a hundred million dollar leads.

1177
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:54,000
And that's, it's all about sales stuff.

1178
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:58,360
Those are the two recent things I read and it's kind of like changed my perspective.

1179
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:00,660
That's for anybody who's thinking about entrepreneurship and stuff.

1180
01:06:00,660 --> 01:06:03,520
He breaks everything down in an easy way to consume it.

1181
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:08,600
Like hard concepts, he breaks it down and a lot of those things in his book I was doing,

1182
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:10,720
but I didn't know I was doing it.

1183
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:11,720
So it was interesting.

1184
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:15,520
I meant to ask you, you just reminded me, what about marketing?

1185
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:18,120
What's worked for you and what hasn't.

1186
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:24,480
So in the beginning, cross promotion was big, just partnering with other brands and just

1187
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:28,220
putting a bunch of people together with, you know, strategically that worked.

1188
01:06:28,220 --> 01:06:33,000
But eventually a plateaued where I had to get a marketing agency.

1189
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:34,560
I wanted to learn how to do marketing myself.

1190
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:39,120
I like, I took a course and everything to run my own ads, but the issue I'm having is

1191
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:43,320
time I have three boys, I'm married, just got to a new, new a firehouse.

1192
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:44,320
I'm running a business.

1193
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:49,380
I just didn't have the time to learn the way I wanted to.

1194
01:06:49,380 --> 01:06:53,360
So I ended up hiring a marketing agency and they kind of been helping me out with that

1195
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:55,280
for the most part.

1196
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:59,160
I found, and this might be different because I don't put out a product per se.

1197
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:06,440
I mean, it is, but you know, it's a free podcast, but the, I've got up to, I think it's like

1198
01:07:06,440 --> 01:07:09,840
168 something thousand people on Instagram, for example, community.

1199
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:12,280
I hate that word followers because no one's following me.

1200
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:14,680
I'm not, I'm not follow worthy.

1201
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:20,040
So the community is there, but every time I put something out of value, that's informative

1202
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:23,080
to say, you know, Hey, look at this thing or, you know, Hey, there's this fundraiser

1203
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:24,080
coming up.

1204
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:28,680
It's like crickets, but you know, you put the, the kitten on the skateboard video out

1205
01:07:28,680 --> 01:07:30,600
there and everyone loses their mind.

1206
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:32,680
And so the algorithms are so shifted.

1207
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:37,740
So what I've realized is that, you know, this, again, this facades that, Oh man, if you know,

1208
01:07:37,740 --> 01:07:41,260
this one influencer, if they do one post and you're going to blow up, like, no, no.

1209
01:07:41,260 --> 01:07:45,680
So to me, I don't know if you've had this, one of the most powerful marketing tools is

1210
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:47,200
back to word of mouth.

1211
01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:48,200
It's trust.

1212
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:52,660
If people like what you do or what you sell, they will tell other people, but obviously

1213
01:07:52,660 --> 01:07:54,520
that's not going to blow up.

1214
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:57,320
That's a much slower burn.

1215
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:58,320
That's the truth, man.

1216
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:00,240
You, you're dropping gems because that's another thing.

1217
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:05,720
So sometimes I get people who want to give me products for the boxes, which is great.

1218
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:10,920
But some people like their products, try to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

1219
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:13,000
So you know, you got to let them down easy.

1220
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:17,880
Hey, say, listen, I don't think it's going to be a good fit, but like, I have to make

1221
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:19,640
sure I keep goodwill with my customers.

1222
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:21,240
I can't just put anything in the boxes.

1223
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:25,240
Like it has to be something I can see myself using or being functional.

1224
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:29,560
And it, cause if I don't have, keep goodwill with my customers, they're not going to recommend

1225
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:30,560
me.

1226
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:32,280
They're not going to tell anybody else to try it.

1227
01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:35,800
So yeah, it's what you said is very true.

1228
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:38,200
Word of mouth is huge, you know?

1229
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:39,200
Absolutely.

1230
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:40,200
All right.

1231
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:41,560
So moving on to the closing questions.

1232
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:43,680
What about movies and documentaries?

1233
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:44,680
Any of those that you love?

1234
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:50,480
Oh man, I don't really have anything off the top of my mind, man.

1235
01:08:50,480 --> 01:08:52,680
Hmm.

1236
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:53,680
Movies or documentaries?

1237
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:58,560
I don't know if it's, it doesn't really pertain to business.

1238
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,240
I have, I'll be honest with you, I haven't really watched anything recently, man.

1239
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:04,320
I think the last documentary I watched was like the social dilemma.

1240
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:09,240
It has to do with like, you know, the way social media works, but I don't know if that's,

1241
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:10,640
that's going to add any value to anybody.

1242
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:11,680
No, I think it will.

1243
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:12,680
That's a great recommendation.

1244
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:18,040
I mean, the fact that you've got these designers, these programmers that created this software

1245
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:22,280
that now they have to shield their own children from because it's so damn effective.

1246
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:24,960
If that's not a powerful message, I don't know what is.

1247
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:25,960
Yeah.

1248
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:31,640
I think one eye opening thing I had to realize is that I thought for a while, I didn't realize

1249
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:35,400
that we are the commodity that Facebook sells.

1250
01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:36,400
Like I thought it was the other way around.

1251
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:37,680
Like they're showing us stuff.

1252
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:38,680
No.

1253
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:42,760
I didn't see your call and say, you know, I need my product to go in front of X amount

1254
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:43,760
of people, you know?

1255
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:47,320
And that's how, yeah, I just took, I didn't, it woke me up.

1256
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:48,320
Yeah.

1257
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:49,320
That's interesting.

1258
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:53,000
Actually, while we're sitting here, you know, and we both in professions that serve, you

1259
01:09:53,000 --> 01:10:00,600
know, and both trying to provide products that add value to the world, it makes it even

1260
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:06,120
harder to understand that unethical business model, you know, whether it's social media

1261
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:11,920
and kind of mining people's personal information or whether it's selling Oxycontin or McDonald's

1262
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:18,200
or whatever it is that, you know, people can sleep at night, counting their money, knowing

1263
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:20,060
that they've made people's lives worse.

1264
01:10:20,060 --> 01:10:26,200
And then back to what we talked about earlier, I had an aha moment recently, like, oh, that

1265
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:28,840
that's also part of the mental health crisis.

1266
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:35,160
The reason why some people are okay with Americans dying from their products is because they

1267
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:38,800
themselves are probably going through a mental health struggle, but they're just billionaires,

1268
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:41,120
so no one's really paying attention.

1269
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:42,120
Yeah.

1270
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:44,440
It's so many levels of this stuff, man.

1271
01:10:44,440 --> 01:10:50,800
And it just makes you feel so small, you know, compared to these machines that are out there,

1272
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:51,800
machines.

1273
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:52,800
Yeah.

1274
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:53,800
I think I'll put this to you.

1275
01:10:53,800 --> 01:11:01,760
I, I really think that there is a paradigm shift towards, what's that term people use?

1276
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:03,960
Oh my goodness.

1277
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:05,440
I'm blank on the term.

1278
01:11:05,440 --> 01:11:12,200
Anyway, you know, back to the family owned butcher or baker or, you know, the coffee

1279
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:16,240
shop or the brewery and places where people can sit down and talk.

1280
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:20,720
Because you think about the American shopping mall, it wasn't really, I mean, I know that

1281
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:25,200
teenagers would hang out there, but it wasn't really a place that people would go and interact.

1282
01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:28,240
They would go, they'd sift through racks of stuff and shelves of stuff.

1283
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:33,120
They'd fill carrier bags and then they'd walk out a lot broker than they walked in.

1284
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,520
So I hope bespoke, that's that word bespoke.

1285
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:42,200
So that kind of artisan crafts person, I think there's a real desire to go back to that.

1286
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:47,480
I think like industry got so, so big that it lost all personality.

1287
01:11:47,480 --> 01:11:49,480
And so I think that's why you're seeing a lot of these.

1288
01:11:49,480 --> 01:11:54,280
I just shared a video the other day of a coffee company that's owned by a family that had

1289
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:56,200
three special needs kids.

1290
01:11:56,200 --> 01:12:01,840
And so every branch of this coffee store employs people with, you know, autism and Down syndrome

1291
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:03,880
and some of these other things.

1292
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:07,400
What a beautiful, you know, social business model.

1293
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:09,920
That I truly think is what people are yearning for.

1294
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:13,520
So everyone like you and other people out there that are trying to start something out

1295
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:17,440
from the ground that's coming from a good place and is small.

1296
01:12:17,440 --> 01:12:21,800
I hope this is our time again now, because I think that, you know, as the Macy's and

1297
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:27,080
all these other places start falling, because they are, you know, I think it's time to regain

1298
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:32,160
that small village, you know, community that we had a few decades ago.

1299
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:34,320
Yeah, I agree.

1300
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:39,080
I feel like with social media, everything's just so fast paced with like a TikTok culture

1301
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:40,880
where everything is just fast.

1302
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:42,040
Everything's just fast.

1303
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:46,720
Way we operate and you know, it's good to have, you know, companies, businesses that

1304
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:51,840
have a soul, you know, a face and a soul behind it because it means more, you know?

1305
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:52,840
Absolutely.

1306
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:53,840
All right.

1307
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:57,840
So, you know, great people, is there a person that you'd recommend to come on this podcast

1308
01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:02,520
as a guest to speak to the first responders, military and associated professions of the

1309
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:03,520
world?

1310
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:06,960
Yeah, I think where it comes right now is Bill Waters.

1311
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:08,440
He's the owner of Job Town Tools.

1312
01:13:08,440 --> 01:13:11,640
He's a retired firefighter.

1313
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:13,960
He's out in, I'm not sure if he might have moved.

1314
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:14,960
I'm not sure.

1315
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,680
He's out in Long Island as well.

1316
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:18,880
Brilliant.

1317
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:19,880
I will look him up.

1318
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:23,400
Yeah, I'll see if I message him.

1319
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:24,400
Yeah, please.

1320
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:25,400
Excellent.

1321
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:26,400
Thank you.

1322
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:27,400
All right.

1323
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:29,320
Well, in the very last question before we make sure everyone knows where to find you

1324
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:32,160
and Burnbox, what do you do to decompress?

1325
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:34,640
Oh, what do I do to decompress?

1326
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:35,640
I don't.

1327
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:36,640
That's my problem.

1328
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:37,640
That's my problem.

1329
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:38,640
That's my problem.

1330
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:39,640
I don't.

1331
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:43,040
I will say something I'm doing now to decompress.

1332
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:46,160
So my kids, my boys, like they're into this.

1333
01:13:46,160 --> 01:13:47,560
Like I used to watch a show.

1334
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:48,560
Don't laugh.

1335
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:49,560
Don't judge me.

1336
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:52,080
They used to watch a show, Pokemon, when I was a kid.

1337
01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:55,200
So like they're at their age where they're doing that and kind of they're into it.

1338
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:58,840
So whenever they're out playing and stuff, I kind of like sitting in there hanging with

1339
01:13:58,840 --> 01:14:00,920
them and kind of help me relax.

1340
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:04,600
Reminds me of simpler times, you know, I buy them cards so they can open up.

1341
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:06,760
They kind of want to do like a YouTube video.

1342
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:08,880
So I'm trying to help them with that.

1343
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:10,840
I guess spending time with my kids, I guess.

1344
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:11,840
Love it.

1345
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:15,320
They're not running around like lunatics.

1346
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:18,640
My son got into Pokemon, but I don't think he ever understood how to play it.

1347
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:19,760
And I sure as hell didn't.

1348
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:21,960
So we used to just make up games with it.

1349
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,720
We were doing it so wrong, but you know, he'd always win as well.

1350
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:28,240
He'd always give me all the crap cards and he'd figure out how to have to get one.

1351
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:30,680
So even without the right rules, I still lost.

1352
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:33,760
But it was quality time, just like you said.

1353
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:35,160
That's how I spent most of my vacation.

1354
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:38,920
Whenever they finished their homework, they'll grab some cards and we'll just sit and hang

1355
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:39,920
out.

1356
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:40,920
Brilliant.

1357
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:41,920
All right.

1358
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:44,280
Well then for people listening, where can they find Burnbox and then where can they

1359
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:46,200
find you as well on social media?

1360
01:14:46,200 --> 01:14:47,200
Oh, yeah.

1361
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:51,800
So I kind of have, it's the same because I manage the social media.

1362
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:58,480
So the Burnbox, the underscore Burn underscore box on Instagram and on Facebook, it's at

1363
01:14:58,480 --> 01:15:02,760
the ad symbol at the Burnbox sub.

1364
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:04,560
And that's kind of just the Instagram page.

1365
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:08,480
I had plenty of photos of the stuff that I feature.

1366
01:15:08,480 --> 01:15:11,000
You know, you could check out the comments and everything.

1367
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:12,000
It's legit.

1368
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:15,860
A lot of people think this thing is run by some huge, is this me?

1369
01:15:15,860 --> 01:15:18,880
My wife helps me with customer service and we have a team packing.

1370
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:22,240
It's not a major operation, you know?

1371
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:23,240
It's not.

1372
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:27,280
And if anybody's interested and, you know, if you're a firefighter or first responder

1373
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:32,360
and you have a product you think would be cool, you know, just shoot me a DM.

1374
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:34,880
And yeah, that's it.

1375
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:35,880
Thanks for having me.

1376
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:36,880
I'm really glad to be here.

1377
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:37,880
I've been a huge fan.

1378
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:48,600
I appreciate you taking the time.