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This episode is brought to you by 511 Tactical,

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a company that I've used for over a decade

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since they supplied the uniforms for Anaheim Fire

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when I worked out in California.

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And they have partnered with the Behind the Shield podcast

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to offer you, the listener, 15% off,

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not just a single purchase,

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but an ongoing discount every time you shop

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at 511tactical.com.

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And I will give you the discount code in a moment.

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I just wanna go on a kind of product focus for a second.

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In episode 125 of Behind the Shield podcast,

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I spoke to podiatrist Dr. Mike Donato.

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And we discussed a concern that I've had,

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which is the footwear for first responders.

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If you're a firefighter,

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obviously if we're doing an extrication,

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if we're fighting fire,

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our bunker boots are definitely the best things.

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They offer a high level of protection.

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But the day-to-day calls, the EMS calls,

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all those kind of areas,

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they are absolutely overkill,

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some of the boots that we are being given.

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And I wanted to find a kind of happy medium

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between protection and comfort

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as a lot of these heavy, heavy boots are causing

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overuse injuries, knee pain, ankle pain, back pain.

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And 511tactical has come up with a shoe

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called the Norris Sneaker.

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Now this has the feel literally of a skate shoe.

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It's incredibly comfortable.

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It has puncture protection on the bottom.

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It has the toe protection on the front,

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but they've taken a lot of the weight away

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and made it far more comfortable.

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I think many of us will admit that as an alternative

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to duty boots, we turn to sneakers,

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which are also very comfortable,

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really don't offer any protection.

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So this is a great happy medium between the two.

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If you want to see this, as I said,

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it's called the Norris, N-O-R-R-I-S Sneaker.

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Go to 511tactical and that discount code

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that I was talking about is SHIELD15, S-H-I-E-L-D-1-5.

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That will be applicable for all of your purchases.

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The only time that's not going to work

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is when they have an additional sale

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that's actually going to be higher.

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So if they're offering a 20% or 25% off,

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obviously that 15 is going to be invalid

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because you're going to get even more off.

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So for the Norris sneaker and all the other things

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that I'm going to showcase that I personally use,

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I'm not going to start talking about things

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that I don't use, but the products of theirs

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that I think they're amazing,

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go to 511tactical, put in SHIELD15

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and save 15% every single time.

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Welcome to episode 251 of Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name's James Gearing,

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and this week I am so excited to bring to you Tom Hewitt.

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Now, Tom is a fellow Brit who moved to South Africa,

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and when he was there realized they had a real problem

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with homelessness, specifically with children.

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So as an avid surfer, he realized that there were ways

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they could apply sports, including surfing,

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to these kids to give them a positive outlet

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and also a means to then provide

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counseling and therapy as well.

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So an extremely powerful interview.

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The links to both the charities that we talk about,

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Surfers Not Street Children and his recent one,

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Girls Surf 2, will be on the show notes for this episode.

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So if you go to jamesgearing.com,

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J-A-M-E-S-G-E-E-R-I-N-G.com, click on podcast,

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find this episode and all the links

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will be there on the show notes.

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So before we go to the interview,

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please take a moment to go to your podcast app,

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subscribe to the show, leave feedback,

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and then leave a rating.

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So the more five-star ratings we get,

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the more visible we are to people that are looking

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for a podcast just like this.

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And then on top of that,

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share these incredible men and women's stories.

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So whether it's word of mouth, email, social media,

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whatever means you can think of,

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they have given an hour, two hours of their time.

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Please use your outlets to share these stories

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because I know there are men and women all over the planet

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that need to hear some of these great people.

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So with that being said,

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I introduce to you Tom Hewitt.

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Enjoy.

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So Tom, I want to start by saying thank you so much

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for coming on the Behind the Shield podcast.

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Well, thanks for having me.

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So geographically, where are we finding you

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on planet earth today?

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Today I'm in a little village in Devon in England, actually.

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I'm in a place called Croied,

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which is a village that's known for surfing,

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believe it or not.

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Absolutely.

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I know actually my dad lives in Cornwall

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and I'm from Bath originally,

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so I'm familiar with that area.

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All right, so I'd love to start at the beginning.

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So where were you actually born

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and what was your family unit like?

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What did your parents do and how many siblings?

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Yeah, I was born in the UK.

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I'm British and I was born to parents

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and have two brothers and one sister.

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Beautiful.

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What did your mom and dad do?

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My father is a musician and they're both still alive.

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And also a bit of a campaigner around social issues as well.

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Awesome.

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Okay, and then what about your mother?

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She worked alongside my father,

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but has done various other jobs as well.

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Brilliant.

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Okay, so then when you were young,

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were you an athlete yourself?

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Did you play football or any other sports?

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When I was really young,

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I didn't live by the coast until I was 11 or 12.

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And I actually played soccer and cricket

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and the average sports that you would play

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or the usual sports you'd play in the UK.

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And it was only later when I got into skateboarding

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and surfing that everything changed.

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Right, and whereabouts in England did you grow up?

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I moved around, but I was in,

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my high school years were in a place called Guilford in Surrey.

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Okay, so yeah, geographically it doesn't sound

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like the place you'd instantly be introduced

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to skateboarding or surfing.

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So how did you first find those?

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Funny enough, on a trip to the US when I was about 12,

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I started surfing and skateboarding.

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I'd been skateboarding a little bit before that.

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And there was a huge, in those days,

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there was a big skate movement with guys like Tony Hawk

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and the Bones Brigade, the Powell and Peralta

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and all these huge skaters in the 80s.

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And I was very much influenced when I went to the US

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by this and kind of brought that whole vibe back

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with me and although I lived in Surrey,

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I was only actually 45 minutes from a beach.

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The only downer was that the beach was flat all summer

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and only had surf in the midst of an English winter.

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So I became quite a, I started surfing right away

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and would kind of hitch rides to the beach.

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It was 45 minutes away.

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And yeah, I did everything I could to get to the beach.

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But yeah, it was a bit of a struggle to be a surfer,

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that's for sure.

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Right, well, speaking of that,

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I know Kelly State surfed here where I am,

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in Cocoa Beach in that area.

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And I know that that area isn't known for incredible surf.

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So is there something about surfing

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in less than perfect conditions

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that makes people better surfers?

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I don't know.

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I think being a good surfer,

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there's a number of things that come together to make that.

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And certainly I think if you have not grown up

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next to an incredible beach,

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you're hungry for what you see other people,

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the waves other people are riding and places in the world.

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I mean, I was a kid in the UK

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who had just been so influenced

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by the international surfing community

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that if you'd walked into my bedroom in my teens,

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it was all Hawaiian waves and international surfers.

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Nobody in our area,

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at that time there was very few people that surfed in the UK.

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Nobody knew who these people were.

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There was a little oasis.

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You know, it is incredible that Kelly comes from Florida.

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I mean, given how many good waves there are around the world

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and how many surfers come from some of the best places

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in the world for surfing.

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Yeah, and he's amazing with his longevity.

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It still absolutely blows me away

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how he's able to stay at the top for so many years.

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Yeah, Kelly's a good supporter of our work

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and I find him inspiring.

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I'm exactly six months older than him.

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So, you know, when you see him still competing

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at the level he's competing, it is just incredible.

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He's a very focused guy, obviously very competitive,

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but absolutely incredible and yeah, inspiring.

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Brilliant.

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Now you mentioned about going to America.

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So what took you to America and then what,

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as an English spoil, made you first go,

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I'm gonna try surfing?

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Well, it was funny actually.

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I had a friend who was from the States

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who came over and did a year in the school I was at

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and we just became best buddies.

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And I went to visit him and saved up money

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and got a bit of help from my folks.

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And when I was there, he was from nowhere near the beach,

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by the way, but we actually went on a vacation

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from where he was to the beach

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and that's where I started surfing.

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Beautiful.

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So then once you got back and you were in Surrey,

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did you just surf in Britain or did you start to then

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yearn to be in Australia or America

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and start traveling there to surf as well?

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I didn't have access to surfing globally at that stage

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because I was still young.

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And I surfed, I was like this little grommet

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that used to literally try and black rides

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to the beach every weekend.

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So I mean, by the time I was about 15,

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it got to the stage where my parents were okay with me

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leaving straight off to school on a Friday

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and then being dropped back on a Monday morning.

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So I'd stay at the beach on weekends and come back.

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So man, I was hustling to get waves.

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All right, well then from another perspective then,

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what about career wise when you were at school,

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what did you dream of being when you left school?

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Well, one thing's for sure,

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I had absolutely no idea that I would be doing anything

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similar to the work that I'm doing now.

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And I don't know, I was one of those kids

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that didn't really know what they wanted to do.

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I was always very obsessed by the things that I got into.

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So when I was into skateboarding, I was so into it.

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When I was into surfing, I was so into it.

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But I didn't really have, in those days,

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there wasn't fantastic, or at least where I was,

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wasn't fantastic career advice.

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So I was kind of cruising.

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I didn't do particularly well at school, funnily enough.

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I didn't get into university after school.

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In fact, I went back and did university later,

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actually in the US.

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But yeah, so I kind of cruised through school.

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And one of my reports was actually read out at my wedding.

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And it said, if Tom had as much enthusiasm

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for his schoolwork as he does for riding up walls

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on his skateboard, he may have made a good student.

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You gotta love the positivity

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in some of the British schools.

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I was, one of the most memorable things

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I ever was told by a teacher was,

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you'll never amount to shit, which was really inspiring.

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Thank you, Mr. Blaisdard, I appreciate it.

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00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,400
All right, so then, obviously we're gonna talk

261
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,520
about the incredible work that you're doing in Africa.

262
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,760
So alongside all of that,

263
00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,280
you said your dad was into social issues.

264
00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,960
Were you raised in that kind of compassion, kindness,

265
00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,960
kind of arena in the family home?

266
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:52,960
Yeah, absolutely, so names like Nelson Mandela, for example,

267
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,320
were names that we grew up hearing about.

268
00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:57,520
And my father had had some involvement

269
00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,360
in the anti-apartheid movement and had been to South Africa

270
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:06,360
and had friends in South Africa,

271
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,560
had done stuff with Desmond Tutu, for example.

272
00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:11,680
So I was quite familiar.

273
00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:14,080
And in fact, the first time I ever went to South Africa

274
00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,720
when I was 18 was with my father

275
00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:22,280
on an anti-apartheid, it was a fact-finding trip.

276
00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,040
So it was quite an interesting way

277
00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,080
to see the country for the first time.

278
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:27,360
Brilliant, well, I wanna talk about that,

279
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,800
because I think you and I were very lucky

280
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,800
growing up in England.

281
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,080
The kids TV, I think is phenomenal.

282
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:35,960
I don't know if you have any comparison

283
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,240
with the US or Africa, but the Blue Peter,

284
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,840
John Craven's News Round, all these shows

285
00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:43,600
that educated us about the world.

286
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,920
And there was always fundraisers.

287
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,600
I think we got a decent kind of story told

288
00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,280
about some of the issues in South Africa specifically.

289
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:53,720
But for people listening,

290
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,000
can you kind of just paint us a picture of apartheid,

291
00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,600
how it started and obviously ultimately how it ended?

292
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,560
Yeah, I mean, the apartheid system came into play in 1948.

293
00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:08,720
And basically it built on history of colonialism,

294
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,200
which was a racist oppression essentially,

295
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,320
but for the resources of the land.

296
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,880
And that was very formalized in 1948

297
00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:21,400
under a system called apartheid,

298
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,520
which actually means separate development.

299
00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,160
Of course, it wasn't separate and equal development.

300
00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,360
It was a very slanted development

301
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,680
where the white minority basically took the profits

302
00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:38,520
of the country and the black majority

303
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,560
was subservient to the whites.

304
00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:46,560
And so this system, unbelievably only fell in 1994

305
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:53,000
when South Africa had its first free and fair elections.

306
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,720
Okay, and then, so I know that there is Dutch influence

307
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,480
in the history and there's obviously British influence.

308
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,760
Which nation or nations were behind putting that in

309
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:03,760
in the first place?

310
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:09,720
Well, yeah, the colonial history in South Africa is British

311
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:14,120
and also a fusion of Dutch, French and German,

312
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:15,880
which is called Afrikaans.

313
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:20,880
And so, way back as I think it was 1652,

314
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,400
Jan van Riebeck came to Cape Town.

315
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,120
So I mean, there's hundreds of years

316
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,640
of colonialism in South Africa.

317
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,480
But yeah, I mean, those nations were the ones

318
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,160
that were in particularly in South Africa.

319
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,560
And of course it's different if you look at Mozambique

320
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,960
or which was Portuguese or Namibia, which was German

321
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:43,520
and so on and so forth.

322
00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,240
All right, so then again, just to further paint the picture,

323
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:47,880
you have this segregation,

324
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,760
and I think we see that in many places.

325
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,640
I live in a country where there was segregation

326
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,000
with the Native Americans when our forefathers

327
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:54,920
first came here.

328
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,680
What were some of the negative things

329
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,880
that started to manifest with that regime put in place?

330
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,720
Well, yeah, I mean, as I said, it was very slanted

331
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,920
towards the white minority,

332
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,480
basically getting the profits from the country.

333
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:18,000
And so in order to ensure that the black majority

334
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,800
basically worked for this, it became very oppressive.

335
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,000
I mean, it was not only unfair,

336
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,800
but became oppressive and violent.

337
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,520
And as the struggle against apartheid

338
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,880
developed, the regime got tougher and tougher,

339
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,120
and there were some extremely violent years.

340
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,720
The regime was brutal, actually,

341
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,280
to black people in South Africa.

342
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:50,280
So it's a very painful history of oppression,

343
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:55,360
of racial oppression in South Africa.

344
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,680
Yeah, and ironically, I'll tell you a funny story.

345
00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,680
I went as an early teen, and I've always been tiny.

346
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:07,680
And so I was probably 13, looked more like 11, I'm sure.

347
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,800
And I tried to get into Robocop, and I couldn't get in.

348
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:14,480
They were like, are you joking?

349
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,920
So the other one, the other screen was showing a movie

350
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:19,560
called Cry Freedom.

351
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,640
And for everyone listening, if you wanna get,

352
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,280
at least I hope this is right in your opinion as well,

353
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,280
a great view of that kind of feel of what life is like.

354
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,160
And then obviously at the end, when the credits roll,

355
00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,240
the victims of that kind of regime,

356
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:37,800
then I think Cry Freedom, the Steve Biko story

357
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,480
is absolutely amazing.

358
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,640
Absolutely, a fantastic film.

359
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,160
And actually, Steve Biko is one of the most

360
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,200
inspirational figures in South Africa.

361
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,160
He was murdered in 1977.

362
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,200
But he was one of the, he laid the foundation

363
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:58,200
for changing, his philosophy was essentially

364
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,320
called black consciousness.

365
00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:04,320
And the idea was that people, the black community

366
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,600
had basically internalized their inferiority

367
00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,720
in sort of second class state.

368
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,000
And he said, well, you know, how can we lead a revolution

369
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,400
in this country to right this wrong if black people

370
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,160
are even believing that they're second class citizens?

371
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:20,840
So he was very important for the country,

372
00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:25,840
and funnily enough, his wife, Nsiki Biko,

373
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,560
actually kind of took me into her wing in South Africa,

374
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,760
and his older brother, Kaya, gave me a bit

375
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,360
of a political education.

376
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:40,360
I was very fortunate when I was in my early 20s.

377
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:42,520
Beautiful, well, speaking of that, it's a good transition.

378
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,080
So the apartheid kind of movement

379
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:46,680
is what first took you to South Africa.

380
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,680
So tell me about how that ended,

381
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:54,440
how that ended up becoming into, you know,

382
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,280
realizing there were issues that needed to be solved

383
00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,280
in some of the work that you started doing.

384
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,320
Yeah, when I came into South Africa,

385
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,560
I was just shocked at the apartheid,

386
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:08,280
because it was very evident,

387
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:11,040
and it was kind of a painful trip in many ways.

388
00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,360
You know, it was so different from where I'd grown up.

389
00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:18,440
And you kind of can't help in that situation,

390
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,160
but want to do something to support it.

391
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,080
And I actually wanted to stay on and just volunteer.

392
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,280
And I didn't have any, you know,

393
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:30,880
grand ideas about something major that I could do,

394
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,080
because, you know, I was 18 years old,

395
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,720
and didn't really have a whole lot to offer,

396
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,360
but I just wanted to be a bit of a, you know,

397
00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:41,440
to plug away and volunteer and help if I could.

398
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,680
So I actually came back briefly to the UK,

399
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,640
did a couple of jobs to raise a bit of money,

400
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:51,640
and then went back out to actually try and find a way

401
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,160
that I could get involved and volunteer.

402
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:58,440
I connected with Nelson Mandela's African National Congress.

403
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,080
And around about the same time,

404
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,360
I went up into Mozambique during the Civil War

405
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:05,640
to spend some time there,

406
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,680
looking at the socio-political situation.

407
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,160
I was actually shocked to meet street children

408
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:12,360
for the first time.

409
00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:15,440
And that was quite an interesting moment in my life,

410
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,480
because to be honest, I didn't even know street kids existed.

411
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,520
And I was so utterly shocked

412
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,560
that it kind of changed the course of my life.

413
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:25,720
So when you say street kids,

414
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,080
obviously we've all got our version of homelessness

415
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:29,640
in each of these different countries.

416
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,600
What are the conditions and the numbers

417
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,240
that you were seeing over there?

418
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:37,200
Well, it was during the Civil War in Mozambique,

419
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,760
and, you know, kids were flocking from all over the country

420
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:41,680
to escape the violence.

421
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,640
And so there were hundreds of kids just lining the streets

422
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,240
in just the small area that I was.

423
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:47,160
And I couldn't believe it.

424
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,160
I mean, there's literally kids living on the streets.

425
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:51,160
So we're not talking about kids

426
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,400
that hang around on street corners and go home in the night,

427
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,880
literally sleeping, if they're lucky,

428
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,960
with a blanket on the pavement.

429
00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:01,160
And I couldn't believe it.

430
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,800
It was actually shocking to see this.

431
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,840
Yeah, and then, so that's an interesting kind of thing

432
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,400
I saw as apartheid ended,

433
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,040
is, you know, when you just shut down a regime

434
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,480
of whatever, you know, description,

435
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,440
there's also that knock on effect then.

436
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,880
So when apartheid ended,

437
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:22,800
you know, one would hope that everything was good again,

438
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,600
and, you know, everything was distributed fairly,

439
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,000
and the people that were already there

440
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,840
weren't, you know, victimized as well.

441
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,680
What were some of the things that you saw

442
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,440
once that happened, once apartheid actually ended?

443
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,040
Well, it was an interesting time,

444
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,360
because what I loved was the excitement

445
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:46,120
and the joy and the enthusiasm of the people.

446
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:48,240
I mean, being free, I mean, I was a peace monitor

447
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,360
at the first free and fair elections in South Africa.

448
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:54,680
And it is one of the best days of my life just to see that

449
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:59,240
and just to feel that excitement and joy.

450
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,920
So absolutely incredible to witness.

451
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:04,640
But, you know, what you've also got to look at

452
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,600
is the fact that it was an uphill job.

453
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,000
I mean, you'd have, you had a system

454
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,520
that was designed to benefit the minority.

455
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,400
So take, for example, the social welfare side of things.

456
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,200
I mean, this was a system designed

457
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:19,320
for a small amount of people

458
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:20,920
that suddenly bust at the seams.

459
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,560
So getting freedom was one thing,

460
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,080
you know, transitioning the country

461
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:30,080
into being able to be the best for all its citizens,

462
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:31,440
whole other story.

463
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,720
Right, because I got a family that actually fled.

464
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,240
They were whites, Africans,

465
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,720
and they were, you know, one of the farmers.

466
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,640
I know there was violence towards the farmers.

467
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,040
And again, when you look at both sides,

468
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:45,760
if that farmland originally belonged

469
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:47,920
to another group of people, you know,

470
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,960
it's a lose-lose no matter which way you look at it.

471
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,400
So I could see there was that rough transition.

472
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,040
So let's kind of get back to when you were out

473
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:57,720
in Mozambique now.

474
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,360
So you're seeing this homelessness,

475
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:03,120
especially amongst children.

476
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:05,520
When did you suddenly, or not suddenly,

477
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,520
when did you decide, okay, I want to change something

478
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,960
and start coming up with ideas on how to make a difference?

479
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,200
Well, when I went back from Mozambique into South Africa,

480
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,800
I was talking with the political activists

481
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,520
and those who were involved in the transition

482
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,400
of South Africa from apartheid to the new South Africa.

483
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,520
And I'd come back with this, you know,

484
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,080
this kind of worry about street children.

485
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,160
So I'd seen them in Mozambique,

486
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,680
and now I started noticing them all over South Africa.

487
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,760
So I kind of said to some of these folks, you know,

488
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,440
what's happening with the street children?

489
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,040
And obviously they're dealing with the transition

490
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:43,000
of the entire country.

491
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,360
So they were like, what?

492
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:47,480
Yeah, I don't know.

493
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,120
The whole country's changing, you know.

494
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:50,760
So it wasn't that people didn't care.

495
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,240
I mean, they did, but it was like, there's massive change.

496
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,840
And I'm talking about this tiny little one,

497
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,800
wasn't that tiny, but this group of kids.

498
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:03,280
So I said to some of these political folks,

499
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,360
I said, well, you know, maybe this is something

500
00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,080
I could just chip away at and try and help out

501
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:09,600
with the street kids issue.

502
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,200
And they were like, okay, whatever, you know.

503
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,800
So I sort of started looking for places

504
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:17,040
where there were street kids.

505
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,040
And I befriended a group of kids on the streets

506
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,840
in a place, funny enough, called East London in South Africa.

507
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,960
And I couldn't believe it.

508
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,640
I mean, the lives that they were living were so rough.

509
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,160
It was so dangerous, and the violence was incredible.

510
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,960
And I got to know this group of kids very, very well.

511
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,160
And it was a real rollercoaster,

512
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,920
because some really tragic things happened to those kids.

513
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:44,920
And after sort of six months of befriending this group,

514
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,040
I started looking for programs

515
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:48,880
that were helping street kids.

516
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:49,760
They couldn't find much.

517
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:50,600
And then someone said to me,

518
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,320
oh, there's a program in one of the townships.

519
00:23:55,360 --> 00:24:00,360
So one of the areas where the black community was living.

520
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,320
So in South Africa, you'd have a town

521
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,120
which meant basically a white community.

522
00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:09,880
And then behind it, sort of across the tracks,

523
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:11,240
would be what would be called the township,

524
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:12,360
which was the black community

525
00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:15,560
that was essentially serving the white community.

526
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,760
That was how the apartheid towns were structured.

527
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,800
And so someone said, well, in the township,

528
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,760
there's a street kids project.

529
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,760
And so totally naively,

530
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,600
because it was quite a violent environment at the time,

531
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,280
I walked on foot into this township.

532
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,240
Looking for the street kids project.

533
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,200
On the way, I could see a few people thought,

534
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,960
oh my gosh, this guy's nuts, what's he doing?

535
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,160
And a couple of people actually came and walked with me.

536
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:45,000
They said, hey, what are you doing?

537
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:46,720
And I said, looking for this place.

538
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:47,720
They said, oh, we'll walk with you.

539
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,240
I realized they were doing that to keep me safe.

540
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,720
And I actually found this little street kid project there

541
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,000
that was about to close down.

542
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,400
And that was the beginning of working with street kids

543
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:58,220
for me.

544
00:24:58,220 --> 00:24:59,060
Beautiful.

545
00:24:59,060 --> 00:25:01,640
So it was already a project that they was trying to grow.

546
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,120
They just didn't have the support to get it off the ground.

547
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:05,960
Yeah.

548
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,480
I mean, they barely had any staff.

549
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,680
I mean, it really was two tin shacks with about 30 kids.

550
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,960
Yeah, that's interesting because I've noticed

551
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,680
so many of the successful programs are grassroots

552
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,200
in the countries that need the help.

553
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,200
And it seems like some of the charity work that we do

554
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,580
and we throw money at are people from here

555
00:25:27,580 --> 00:25:32,400
that go over there and do jobs that the people

556
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,520
from that country are perfectly capable of doing

557
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:40,200
rather than taking people from over here to lead projects

558
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,080
and empower the people of those areas

559
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:43,660
to do those things themselves.

560
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:46,400
Yeah, absolutely.

561
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,400
I think sometimes you tend to notice things.

562
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,560
I mean, there's probably loads of things in the UK

563
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,600
that would be very valid social issues to get involved in,

564
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,200
but you don't tend to notice them in your home area.

565
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:03,320
And when you go somewhere else

566
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,200
and you see things with fresh eyes,

567
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,080
I think sometimes that just gives you an acute awareness.

568
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,600
Doesn't necessarily give you the understanding

569
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,680
to be involved, but it does, you know,

570
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,640
signals, it makes you want to be involved.

571
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:19,800
Whereas I think sometimes at home,

572
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,160
you're kind of just so used to it.

573
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:22,720
Oh yeah, that's just the way it is, you know.

574
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:23,600
Yeah, yeah.

575
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,320
All right, well then before we actually go onto the project

576
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:28,800
and how you started to help,

577
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,200
I would love to hear about the addiction first,

578
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,000
the glue specifically, I know there's an epidemic there.

579
00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:39,520
Absolutely, yes.

580
00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:43,360
The drug of choice, I mean, and I say choice

581
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:47,040
because this is literally all that they can afford is glue.

582
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,520
And so the kids as young as five or six

583
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,240
will come to the streets to,

584
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,120
for an array of different push factor reasons.

585
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:56,680
And when they're in the streets, you know,

586
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,200
life's really, really tough and it's dangerous, it's violent.

587
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,960
And sometimes to survive, they have to engage in,

588
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,960
you know, sexual activity.

589
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,960
And to be honest, the life's so awful

590
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,440
that they end up just blasting themselves with glue

591
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,640
and because that's basically the cheapest thing

592
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,200
they can find.

593
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,360
Yeah, and it's something that people would look down on,

594
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:20,880
like, you know, glue sniffers, as we called them back

595
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,240
when we were little.

596
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:23,960
But then you look at alcohol,

597
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,960
you know, these socially acceptable drugs

598
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,360
that grownups use in developed countries,

599
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:30,760
and it's absolutely no different.

600
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,520
And it really just implies that there's that trauma,

601
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,800
that darkness in their mind that they're trying to suppress,

602
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,800
that can be suppressed or dealt with with negative things.

603
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,680
Or as we're gonna talk about in a minute,

604
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:42,520
you can replace it

605
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,000
with some incredibly positive things instead.

606
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:47,280
Well, that's it.

607
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,720
I mean, you know, your starting point for these kids

608
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,760
is that life's tough, life's really, really awful.

609
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:55,680
It's traumatic.

610
00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,400
So, you know, it's not just traumatic being in the streets.

611
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,640
So something that's happened to them before

612
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,160
to push them into the streets is traumatic.

613
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:06,960
And so every day they're in the streets,

614
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,000
these layers of trauma are just building up.

615
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,840
And so what they'll do is they literally just use the drug

616
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,320
to just take this pain away.

617
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,240
And what we've tried to do,

618
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,760
what we've recognized is that, you know,

619
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,800
sometimes you have to find a way of breaking through this.

620
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,080
Because in a sense, I mean, if you look at it,

621
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,040
why would you not do that?

622
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,560
And, you know, if life was so painful and so awful,

623
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,000
why would you not, you know,

624
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,360
last yourself away in a sense?

625
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:39,760
But we found that the surfing particularly,

626
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,200
and I know we're gonna come onto this,

627
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:46,200
is in a strange way, almost like a healthy drug

628
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,120
to replace the negative drug.

629
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:49,960
It sounds funny to say,

630
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,480
but it really seems to work like that.

631
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,720
But essentially what it does,

632
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,040
it opens the door for the real work,

633
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,680
which is looking at this trauma.

634
00:28:58,680 --> 00:28:59,520
Absolutely.

635
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,960
I had a gentleman on Ishmael Bay.

636
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,280
I don't know if you're familiar with him.

637
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,080
He wrote a book, I think it was The Long Way Gone.

638
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,880
And he was a boy soldier in Sierra Leone.

639
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:09,920
His parents were murdered.

640
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:10,960
He was forced into that.

641
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,640
He was also forced into drugs.

642
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,560
And you'd think that was it.

643
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,480
That person is done.

644
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,640
Well, he was ultimately rescued by a Red Cross worker

645
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:25,640
and is now working for the UN as an advocate

646
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,840
to get other boy soldiers or child soldiers, you know,

647
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,720
released from whatever tribal, you know, war is going on.

648
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,440
So it's amazing when these mentors come in,

649
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:40,240
you can take such broken children and actually save them.

650
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:41,760
Yeah, that's an incredible story.

651
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,920
I'll definitely try and find out more about him.

652
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,760
Yeah, I'll send you his information.

653
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,120
Okay, so there you are.

654
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,040
You're at this township hut.

655
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,400
So I'd love to hear the next year or two after that,

656
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:55,520
how that grew.

657
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,480
Yeah, well, you know, when I got to this kind of

658
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,040
street kids project, in a sense,

659
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,840
there was a woman there called Auntie Maggie.

660
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,280
She was a black woman from the township

661
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,080
who was basically couldn't read or write,

662
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,560
just had so much love for these kids.

663
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,360
And there were all these kids that had lost parents

664
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,000
and had been found literally on the rubbish dump

665
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:19,120
or on the streets.

666
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:23,160
I mean, it was right next to a huge rubbish dump refuse site

667
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:27,040
where kids adults were living in the rubbish.

668
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:28,840
I mean, it was extraordinary.

669
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,680
And she was just the most amazing person.

670
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,680
I actually couldn't believe that with next no resources,

671
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,600
she was there, she was giving these kids love, attention,

672
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,680
you know, in abject poverty.

673
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,600
So, you know, when you meet someone like that,

674
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,880
and you see the struggle and you realize that, wow,

675
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,440
even though I actually don't have much to offer,

676
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,360
being an 18 year old with no skills at that time,

677
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,480
I might be able to, you know, ask around

678
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,160
and even get a bit of money towards helping them

679
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:00,240
for the needs they have.

680
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,480
I realized actually I could make a difference here.

681
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,960
So, you know, under, you know, partnering with Auntie Maggie

682
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,000
and really sort of being led by her,

683
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,440
I got involved with working with these kids.

684
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,280
And, and funny enough, they had such a huge impact on me.

685
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,880
I'm still in contact with a lot of them today.

686
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,560
I mean, they're in their 20s and 30s now,

687
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,560
but they were the most incredible group of kids.

688
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:30,400
And yeah, I was with them for about six or seven years

689
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,480
in the early 90s.

690
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:33,440
All right, now was that originally

691
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:34,800
the Durban Street team?

692
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,080
No, that was actually before that.

693
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:38,920
Oh, okay.

694
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,280
The Durban Street team was 1998.

695
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:46,280
This was in 1992 through to about 97.

696
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,240
Okay, so what was that program?

697
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:51,600
How did you start helping the kids

698
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,160
with that program specifically?

699
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,400
My father was running a charity actually in the UK

700
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,240
that supported projects in different parts of the world.

701
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,280
Not this project, that station.

702
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,240
I called him and I said, hey, look, you know,

703
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,360
this is a really serious situation here.

704
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,200
And, you know, could you pitch it to the board

705
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,120
to potentially get involved?

706
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,720
It's not that they had huge amounts of funds,

707
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,080
but just could we use the UK organization as a way,

708
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,120
as a platform to try and raise some funds for this project?

709
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:21,680
Cause they're gonna close down if not,

710
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,880
and then you've got 30 kids on the streets.

711
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,360
And so we got a little support mechanism

712
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,680
from the UK towards this program.

713
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,880
And you couldn't really get funds in South Africa

714
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,040
at the time because there was so much need.

715
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:40,040
Remember the timing of this is two years before the 1994,

716
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,360
which was the end of apartheid and the new South Africa.

717
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,000
So, you know, every aspect of South Africa

718
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,680
needed finance, needed help.

719
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,000
So for something like this,

720
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:52,960
it was actually a little easier to look outside

721
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,960
of the country for financial support.

722
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,600
And also to gather a team of local South Africans

723
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,040
who could actually assist Auntie Maggie as well

724
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,560
and help her run the program.

725
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,440
Right, so this was at this point providing housing

726
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:06,320
and education?

727
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,480
Yeah, I mean, it was basically a,

728
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:12,960
I mean, you could call it an orphanage if you want,

729
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,040
but it was, yeah, it was a living center.

730
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,920
But again, you know, it literally was two big shacks.

731
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,080
And over time, over about six or seven years,

732
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,840
we built this program to be an incredible

733
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,240
children's village actually.

734
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,000
And Auntie Maggie is still alive.

735
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,600
And I go to visit her once a year,

736
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,640
because she's in a different part of South Africa.

737
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,920
And I go and spend time with her every July

738
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,880
on the way to a big surfing contest

739
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,640
I go to down in Jefferies Bay.

740
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,400
And she's still incredible.

741
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,520
She's getting old now,

742
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,160
but the lives that she has, you know,

743
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,360
that she's changed, you know,

744
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:53,960
she's the most incredible person.

745
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,240
She sounds like it.

746
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:56,280
She really does.

747
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,240
Now, in those six years,

748
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,520
what were some of the things that you observed

749
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,760
began healing some of these little boys and girls

750
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:06,160
that came into the orphanage?

751
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,360
I mean, in those days,

752
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,280
there was no social welfare system for these kids.

753
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:13,760
So there weren't social workers

754
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,720
that could deal with these kids.

755
00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:18,560
The only social workers at the time came from,

756
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:20,680
for the white community.

757
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,480
And, you know, although there's some very nice social workers,

758
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,280
then they just didn't have any knowledge of what life

759
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,120
was like for black people in South Africa at the time.

760
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:31,800
So it was a really difficult time

761
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,640
to get children professional help.

762
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:38,640
And so what we tried to do in that sort of chaos and anarchy,

763
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,160
we tried to put into place a program

764
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,440
where the kids would get love and care and attention,

765
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,800
counseling, and kids would come in

766
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,880
from seriously abusive situations,

767
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,600
both physically and sexually.

768
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:58,600
And the place was really a place of healing for them.

769
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,760
But we were basically just trying to pull something together

770
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,720
without any infrastructural support,

771
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:07,080
which was really tricky.

772
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,640
Yeah, and I'm sure I've seen this, you know,

773
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,000
in many, many of the people I've had on

774
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,720
that have experienced trauma in a host of avenues.

775
00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:17,200
And it seems like that tribal element,

776
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,960
that sense of being part of something,

777
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:19,920
and I'm sure it was the same,

778
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,160
of being part of the orphanage for the kids,

779
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,440
is so healing, and then the ability to then assist,

780
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,080
help, give back, is another huge healing element of that.

781
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,400
Absolutely, they were a big family.

782
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,720
And funny enough, I've got one of the kids from the program

783
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:40,200
who's in his 30s now, is one of my child and youth care workers,

784
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,280
in fact, our head lifeguard,

785
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,440
that surfers, not street children, as well.

786
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:46,480
Fantastic.

787
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,040
All right, well, then you mentioned about the street team.

788
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,120
So how did you transition from working with the orphanage

789
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:55,640
to the Durban Street team?

790
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,520
Yeah, the area of East London is quite a small,

791
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,200
it's a small town in South Africa.

792
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,720
And we'd actually done quite well in the mid-90s

793
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:06,680
of reducing the number of kids on the streets there.

794
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,960
And there was organizations that were up and running.

795
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,280
So I wanted to, I'd heard that Durban

796
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,680
was one of the worst affected areas

797
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,440
in terms of numbers of kids on the streets.

798
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,240
And the reason for that was because the climate

799
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,480
was so much better than everywhere else in the country.

800
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,000
So kids would come from Johannesburg and Cape Town

801
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:27,120
and the Eastern Cape, and they'd come up to Durban.

802
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,280
And Durban, you really can, I mean, take away the dangers,

803
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,240
but you really could live on the streets, it's warm,

804
00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:36,400
you know, all year round.

805
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,640
And so there was just so many kids on the streets in Durban

806
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,760
that I really felt that that's where I should be working,

807
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:48,120
because that's the heart of the problem in South Africa.

808
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:48,960
Right.

809
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:50,360
Children, yeah.

810
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:51,920
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

811
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,040
I saw on one of the videos that you guys did on YouTube

812
00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:00,440
that the number they had on that was about 6,000 kids

813
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,080
on the streets in Durban alone.

814
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:04,920
Yeah, that's a very old statistic.

815
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,280
So that's going back almost 20 years.

816
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:12,280
And actually, it's not entirely accurate.

817
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,560
It was, that was using a very, very broad description

818
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,680
of street children, but nonetheless,

819
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,720
there were hundreds and hundreds of kids on the streets,

820
00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:25,320
which is a large number.

821
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,360
You know, it was alarming in those days.

822
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,640
And originally it was political violence

823
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,280
that was leading kids to the streets.

824
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,560
You know, obviously the backdrop of poverty,

825
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,160
one thing you have to remember is that most poor children

826
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,400
live at home, you know, it takes a lot for someone

827
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,200
to actually go to the streets.

828
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,840
It takes something to have happened, a push factor,

829
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,080
and you know, kids end up in the streets

830
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:48,320
because of that.

831
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,680
So at the time it was political violence.

832
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,560
And then of course, you think about the era

833
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,520
that we're talking about here, the next wave of kids

834
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,720
that came onto the streets was related

835
00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:00,760
to the HIV AIDS crisis.

836
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,360
No, I didn't even think about that.

837
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:09,080
That hit sort of in the 90s, sort of kind of the beginning

838
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:10,840
of the new South Africa really.

839
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,320
And you know, for 15 years or so, that was the,

840
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,560
I mean, we were working in the epicenter of HIV AIDS.

841
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,200
So, you know, people were dying, kids were being left

842
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,200
hopeless and ended up on the streets.

843
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:29,200
And, you know, it was a horrific time actually.

844
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,600
You know, it was before, you know, in those days,

845
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,280
you didn't know much about HIV.

846
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,800
Today, of course, you can keep people alive generally.

847
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:41,840
But in those days not.

848
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,200
So there was a whole wave of kids coming to the streets.

849
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,240
Who were AIDS orphans and many contracting AIDS

850
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:51,240
in the streets because of the abusive lifestyle.

851
00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:53,760
So in the late 90s and early 2000s,

852
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:58,600
we lost a lot of kids to HIV related diseases.

853
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,080
Right now, I remember hearing something,

854
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,320
and then please forgive me if I misquote in this person,

855
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:07,240
but whoever was the philosophy that AIDS could be cured

856
00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:09,800
by certain unprotected sex.

857
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,200
Was that something that was actually a thing in South Africa

858
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,040
when you were observing this crisis?

859
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,720
But there was an underlying sort of belief

860
00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:23,480
in probably a very, very slim sector of society.

861
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,120
But there was at one stage a belief

862
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:32,120
that you could cure HIV related illnesses with that.

863
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,280
That was not the main,

864
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,720
most people in South Africa didn't believe that.

865
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:41,320
But there were obviously a few horrific cases of rape.

866
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,160
And that stemmed from that.

867
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,600
Yeah.

868
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,200
So you have obviously this horrendous homelessness

869
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,240
from poverty, from the AIDS crisis.

870
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:55,120
How did that then factor into the creation

871
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:56,400
of the Durban Street Team?

872
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,160
Well, when I moved up to Durban,

873
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,920
I got together with local street children activists up there

874
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,880
and we set up something called the Durban Street Team.

875
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,960
And the idea was that we set up an outreach team

876
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,280
that would literally, we had one vehicle, about six of us,

877
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,840
that would literally drive around the streets all day,

878
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:18,560
identifying kids on the streets,

879
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,200
building a relationship of trust with them

880
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:22,560
and looking at what their needs were

881
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,840
and seeing if we could engage and get involved.

882
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,200
We had a little bit of budget.

883
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,960
We were an organization then.

884
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,840
And so we didn't have any facility,

885
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,440
but it was on the street help.

886
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,040
And we got to know, literally all of the kids

887
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,440
on the streets in Durban.

888
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,240
And it was about bringing healthcare to them.

889
00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:48,120
It was about bringing counseling,

890
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,960
access to services and ultimately looking for ways

891
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:53,440
out of the streets for them.

892
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:55,360
Brilliant.

893
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,440
Now, I know that you mentioned in one of the videos as well

894
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:02,480
about the introduction of sports

895
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,680
as one of the healing mechanisms.

896
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,920
So I know surfing was one of them

897
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:08,880
we're talking about in a minute,

898
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,440
but overall sports, what did you start seeing

899
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,720
when these kids were brought

900
00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:18,120
into some sort of social sporting setting?

901
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,120
Well, sports has always been a fantastic way

902
00:41:23,240 --> 00:41:24,480
to engage with the kids.

903
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:25,840
Cause I always say to people,

904
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,200
you imagine walking around the streets

905
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,000
in the outreach team and saying to the kids,

906
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,080
hey, how are you doing?

907
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,280
Would you like some counseling?

908
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,640
The kids look at you like you're mad.

909
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:39,120
But if you, sports is not only engaging

910
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,640
is not only therapeutic in itself and good fun

911
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:47,640
and engaging, it opens the door to more professional work.

912
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,000
And so before we were doing surfing with the kids,

913
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,160
we had soccer programs.

914
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,840
We also use art and drama and non-sports

915
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,280
but other engaging programs.

916
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,600
But yeah, we found that with the soccer program,

917
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,120
we actually had a world cup for street children

918
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:09,040
that we hosted in 2010 just before the FIFA world cup,

919
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,280
which was really fun in Durban.

920
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,280
But yeah, the sports have always been an important part

921
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,880
of the work that we do.

922
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,480
Brilliant, did the English team make it to the finals

923
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,000
and then blow it in penalties?

924
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,320
So there was a moment in one of the films

925
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,640
that really struck me and we're gonna talk about surfing.

926
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,640
I keep saying that, but I can't remember

927
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:37,720
if it was Nintendo or not.

928
00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:39,320
And I wanna talk about him in a moment as well.

929
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,960
But one of the boys came off the beach,

930
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:43,840
he'd just been surfing.

931
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,720
And then the narration was basically saying,

932
00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:50,160
now they had that fulfillment.

933
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:51,920
They'd surf, they were mentally tired,

934
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:53,200
they were physically tired.

935
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,880
That was then the perfect time to then start a conversation

936
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:58,880
that ultimately is counseling.

937
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:00,920
And I thought that was a great way of looking at it

938
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,000
because you're right.

939
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,400
You go up to most firefighters, police officers,

940
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,160
members of the military and just be like,

941
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:07,640
hey, you wanna talk?

942
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,320
Yeah, leave me alone, weirdo.

943
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,800
But if you get that trust, that buy-in,

944
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:14,400
and I think that exercise is such a great way

945
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,520
of breaking down some of those walls.

946
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,280
What a beautiful place to start counseling

947
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,200
with a bunch of people who've just exerted themselves

948
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:23,640
and are now sitting on the beach,

949
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,520
listening to the waves roll as they start the conversation.

950
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,440
Absolutely, and our social working,

951
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,240
we always say that some of the best social working

952
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:35,200
we've ever done is literally with our social workers

953
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,120
sitting on the beach with kids in their wetsuits

954
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,320
who have just had a few rides and they've come in,

955
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:40,600
they're pausing for a second.

956
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,800
And that's connection time.

957
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:45,640
It's incredible.

958
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,360
And the world, the kids are absolutely loving at that moment.

959
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:53,280
So the guard is down and it just opens the door.

960
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,120
Yeah, I absolutely love that.

961
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,240
All right, so then from the street team,

962
00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:00,960
how was Surfers Not Street Children born?

963
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:08,280
Well, the street team lasted for quite some time.

964
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:13,680
I mean, we slowly developed it into a home for street children

965
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:20,320
and it became quite a major project.

966
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,040
And at the time, about 30 staff,

967
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,600
and there were a lot of kids on the streets

968
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,720
and there was really big issues that kids were facing.

969
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:30,880
Like there was police roundups,

970
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:32,200
where they would round up the kids

971
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,800
and literally drive them out of the city and dump them,

972
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,920
because they didn't want kids on the streets

973
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,920
when there were international conferences in the area.

974
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,760
And so we were campaigning against this

975
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,040
and trying to change the way that society perceived

976
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,280
and treated street children.

977
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,320
But over time, we realized that actually,

978
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,400
the surfing was really becoming a central part

979
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,000
of the work that we do.

980
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,080
And the kids really just wanted to surf.

981
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:00,360
They were so into it.

982
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:05,360
So in about 2012, we divided the organization into two.

983
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:10,840
And Surfers Not Street Children was one part of it,

984
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:15,840
focusing on the fusion of surfing with mentorship and care.

985
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:17,720
And that really sort of developed

986
00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:20,800
to be the main aspect of the work.

987
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:22,800
And it was incredible because people would say,

988
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:23,640
well, you know, how come,

989
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,160
why are you getting these kids surfing?

990
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,080
Isn't that just like, you know,

991
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,600
imposing what you like on the kids?

992
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:29,680
The irony was that was the opposite,

993
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,320
was the kids that were desperate to surf.

994
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,520
We offered them every possibility we could think of.

995
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:37,880
They wanted to surf and they had chosen to surf.

996
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:39,880
They thought that surfing was cool.

997
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:43,240
And obviously it wasn't sort of normal for them

998
00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:48,240
in terms of the fact that they hadn't had access to surfing.

999
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,160
Because think back to apartheid South Africa,

1000
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:52,880
the beaches were segregated.

1001
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,520
So black people weren't allowed on the beaches

1002
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:57,520
that white people were.

1003
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,040
So you couldn't surf.

1004
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,680
A family couldn't have grown up surfing in South Africa

1005
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,920
because it was literally illegal to be on those beaches.

1006
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,480
So the kids on the streets, you know,

1007
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:13,480
found the sort of adrenaline side of surfing.

1008
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,040
They just loved it.

1009
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:16,000
They just wanted to surf.

1010
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:16,840
They thought it was cool.

1011
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,640
They wanted to work on their surfing.

1012
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,240
It was great for us because we realized

1013
00:46:20,240 --> 00:46:22,040
that the more they got into, you know,

1014
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,320
they got stoked about surfing,

1015
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,960
the less they wanted to engage in behaviors

1016
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,120
that were really hard for us to break through,

1017
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,640
like drug taking.

1018
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:36,360
So it was incredible to see how the therapeutic side

1019
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,440
of surfing and the allure of surfing

1020
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,200
and what we call stoke as surfers

1021
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,480
was actually the greatest tool that we had.

1022
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,120
Yeah, and you know, that makes perfect sense

1023
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:46,480
about the beaches.

1024
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,840
Because one of my close friends was a lifeguard,

1025
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:51,680
I believe it was in the Jefferies Bay area

1026
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:52,960
somewhere around there.

1027
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,000
And, you know, he was always making rescues

1028
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,720
because, you know, a lot of the black South Africans

1029
00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:00,440
would get in trouble.

1030
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:01,960
But then historically when you look,

1031
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,400
they weren't allowed anywhere near the water for so long,

1032
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,480
then that is probably the underlying cause

1033
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,120
of why that issue was happening.

1034
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:11,080
Yeah, absolutely.

1035
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,160
I mean, it just literally didn't have access, you know.

1036
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,680
And also, you know, the South African coastline,

1037
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:18,280
I mean, this is why it's so good for surfing.

1038
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,200
It's really rough.

1039
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:21,440
It's really dangerous.

1040
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,120
And if you can't swim.

1041
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,480
So the black community in South Africa

1042
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:30,200
had grown up with very wise teachings within the culture

1043
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,760
as to why you don't go in the water.

1044
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,840
Because the rip currents are so incredibly strong.

1045
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,240
But of course, if you have access to the knowledge

1046
00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:41,240
of understanding the ocean,

1047
00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:44,520
then those things can be overcome.

1048
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,480
And that's what we've seen, you know,

1049
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,520
since the dawn of the new South Africa,

1050
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,160
there's a lot of black people in South Africa

1051
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,000
who absolutely love the ocean

1052
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:58,760
and for whom the ocean has become part

1053
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,560
of their everyday life.

1054
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:01,400
Amazing.

1055
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,840
Now, two things kind of struck me when we were talking.

1056
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,600
One of the questions that I'll ask you at the end is,

1057
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:08,160
you know, what do you do to decompress?

1058
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,960
And so many people say, I go into nature.

1059
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,080
And actually the ocean is one of my favorite places

1060
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:14,240
to go as well.

1061
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:16,320
But then the, so you've got that element already in there.

1062
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,680
The other thing is, once you've paid for a board,

1063
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,280
that's it, they're good to go.

1064
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:25,320
If we do jujitsu or, you know, polo or, you know,

1065
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,760
all these other sports, there's a cost

1066
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,400
and you also kind of need another person.

1067
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,320
It's hard to do jujitsu on your own.

1068
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:33,840
But with the board and nature, I mean,

1069
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,360
that is so freeing to that child.

1070
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,840
Because once they have that one piece of equipment,

1071
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:40,960
they can, as long as the board doesn't break,

1072
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,040
they can literally surf the rest of their life.

1073
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:44,880
Absolutely.

1074
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,200
I mean, and then part of the program that we run is,

1075
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,520
you know, the kids can come to the program

1076
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:53,080
literally as they are.

1077
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,320
We'll provide wetsuits, boards,

1078
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,400
we've got lifeguards and the coaches

1079
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:58,760
and obviously we'll come to that.

1080
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:03,280
But yeah, if you can give the kids access,

1081
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,320
I mean, they're gonna get as stoked as any other kid.

1082
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:07,160
Yeah. All right.

1083
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:10,640
Well then I think a great person to kind of tell the story

1084
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,840
of what, you know, the impact that you guys are having

1085
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:15,560
is Nintendo and Musibi.

1086
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:17,640
So I'd love to hear about,

1087
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:18,880
firstly, I think it's very powerful,

1088
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:20,680
how he ended up homeless

1089
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:22,840
and then his journey through your program.

1090
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,160
Nintendo is an incredible guy.

1091
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,000
He now works in a surf shop

1092
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:34,000
and he's also a sponsored free member.

1093
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:39,000
So he's an incredibly good surfer, very, very high level.

1094
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:44,040
And he's basically sponsored to basically sort of produce

1095
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,440
edits and photos and things like that.

1096
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:48,160
So he's really doing great,

1097
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:50,560
but his life was really difficult.

1098
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:55,400
And if you go back to when he was about nine years old,

1099
00:49:55,400 --> 00:50:00,160
he lost his parents to HIV related disease

1100
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,280
and he ended up on the streets

1101
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,080
and he would bounce between street families

1102
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,640
and, you know, he'd be one day living with one family,

1103
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:12,080
the next with another.

1104
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:17,080
And I met him back in the days of Durban Street Team

1105
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,400
and we actually had a live in shelter by then.

1106
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,800
And it took quite a while.

1107
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:27,800
He was so street wise that it took a while for him to see

1108
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,440
that it would be better to come into the program

1109
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:34,080
because obviously when kids are, you know, on the streets,

1110
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:35,920
you know, and when drugs are involved,

1111
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:36,960
when they're sniffing glue,

1112
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:41,320
and it's sometimes quite hard to take them away from that,

1113
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:45,320
you know, and say, hey, you know, it'll be better here.

1114
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,320
And bear in mind that they've had a lot of bad experiences

1115
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:48,240
with adults as well.

1116
00:50:48,240 --> 00:50:50,680
So for a couple of years,

1117
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,040
he was kind of one foot in the program, one foot out.

1118
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,960
And one day he got, he was so high on glue

1119
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:01,280
that he got hit by a car and he got hit so hard,

1120
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,600
but unbelievably he wasn't very injured.

1121
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:06,440
He could have been killed.

1122
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,040
I mean, it was just crazy.

1123
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:12,080
And after that, he started coming into the program

1124
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:12,920
a bit more.

1125
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:14,960
And when we started surfing, he really got into it.

1126
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:19,720
And from a very early, from very early in that program,

1127
00:51:19,720 --> 00:51:23,640
we could see that he had absolute natural talent.

1128
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:25,040
And the more he got into surfing,

1129
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,400
the more he realized that if you want to become a good surfer,

1130
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:29,480
you couldn't be sniffing glue

1131
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:31,440
because it just doesn't do anything

1132
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:33,200
to enhance your surfing effect.

1133
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,360
It just makes you less capable.

1134
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,360
So he wanted to be a great surfer

1135
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,440
and started getting into the surf scene,

1136
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,960
started being recognized for being a good surfer.

1137
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,600
And one of the things that the program's been really

1138
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,640
successful over at Nintendo was very much part

1139
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,720
of the first wave of this was that it changed the identity

1140
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:51,560
of the kids.

1141
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:55,160
So the kids as street kids were told by people's actions

1142
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:58,480
and words that you are the rubbish of society.

1143
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,200
You're the architects of your own misery.

1144
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:03,440
You are there because that's your destiny.

1145
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,800
In a sense, that was when people,

1146
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,520
every time someone stepped over them,

1147
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,840
or spattered them, or swore at them,

1148
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:12,600
or sexually abused them,

1149
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:16,360
kind of the general message that was being given

1150
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,720
is that you are lesser people.

1151
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:21,600
But when they started surfing

1152
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:23,120
and became a group of surfers,

1153
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:28,120
suddenly they realized that they felt this new sensation,

1154
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:29,600
which was dignity.

1155
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:30,480
People looked up to them.

1156
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,600
People were impressed by them.

1157
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,160
Because there weren't any really many black surfers

1158
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:36,000
in those days.

1159
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,200
So the African community would literally see these kids

1160
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:42,120
about to jump off the pier and they'd come running over.

1161
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,520
They were like, couldn't believe that black people

1162
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:46,680
were doing this.

1163
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,840
And they were seen as like, they almost like gladiators,

1164
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:51,160
riding these waves in the community.

1165
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,280
This was so new for the community.

1166
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:57,680
And it really changed the identity that these kids had.

1167
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,720
And I really got it on one day,

1168
00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:02,360
this is actually how we got our name,

1169
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:07,040
when we'd just been given a wetsuit donation

1170
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,880
by a wetsuit company.

1171
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,960
And it was like 35 degrees.

1172
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:16,400
So like, I don't know what that is in Fahrenheit, hot,

1173
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,320
really hot, Durban day.

1174
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:23,240
And, you know, humid, super humid, like Florida humid.

1175
00:53:23,240 --> 00:53:25,360
And the surfers cooking,

1176
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,440
and I had my board shorts on and my board,

1177
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:28,760
and I was like, hey, let's go.

1178
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:29,840
We're going surfing.

1179
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,200
And you know, the kids all came down,

1180
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:32,560
and they were all wearing their wetsuits.

1181
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,080
And I was like, whoa, guys, you're crazy.

1182
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,880
It's like, you know, 35 degrees centigrade.

1183
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:39,720
And they're like saying, I said,

1184
00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:41,040
why are you wearing your wetsuits?

1185
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:42,960
And they said, no, we love our wetsuits.

1186
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,920
Yeah, but why aren't you overheating?

1187
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,480
And I think, ah, but there's a time, you know,

1188
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,240
when we wear these wetsuits,

1189
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:53,320
we're surfers, not street children.

1190
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:56,320
And it was like, ah, man, it's about identity.

1191
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,000
They see themselves as sort of full,

1192
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,880
they're re-envisioned as full human beings in a sense.

1193
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,400
And such a small thing in my mind

1194
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,320
had given them such an identity change.

1195
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:09,160
Amazing.

1196
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:11,960
Now we talk about, you know, trauma a lot,

1197
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,520
and, you know, PTSD and those things,

1198
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,040
but the important thing to focus on is obviously

1199
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,240
the growth once you get through that trauma.

1200
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:24,400
Did you witness, obviously, you know, the healing,

1201
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,880
but did you witness them becoming more resilient,

1202
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,800
stronger young men when they came out the other end?

1203
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,560
Sorry, after they'd been in the program, yeah?

1204
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:35,800
Yeah, yeah, when they'd been through this process,

1205
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,040
obviously, initially, they were still very,

1206
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:39,640
very broken mentally.

1207
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:41,800
When that healing was kind of done

1208
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:43,880
and they were deep, deep in the program now,

1209
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,800
did you notice a resilience mentally as well?

1210
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:50,360
Absolutely.

1211
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,920
Look, we're under no illusions that the healing processes

1212
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:57,920
are ongoing throughout many of the kids' lives.

1213
00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:59,200
That's the reality.

1214
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:03,640
If you miss out on some of the key parts of childhood,

1215
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:05,760
the foundational development,

1216
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:08,840
the reality is that that has consequences.

1217
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,840
If you go through extremely traumatic sexual

1218
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,800
or physical abuse as a child,

1219
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:17,920
there are long-term consequences.

1220
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,440
But yes, as they went through the program,

1221
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,680
as they got counseling, as they got,

1222
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:28,600
as they became happy, and as they had a sense of family

1223
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,600
and community within the group of surfers

1224
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:35,400
and the staff in the program, they certainly,

1225
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,400
I mean, people have often looked at these kids and said,

1226
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:39,680
wow, they've been through so much,

1227
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,720
and yet they're so happy, they're so stoked,

1228
00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:44,240
always got a smile on their face.

1229
00:55:44,240 --> 00:55:47,080
The reality is they do still carry the pain.

1230
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,280
And many of them, obviously, we've been doing this

1231
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,680
for a long time and we've seen kids go through

1232
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:54,600
right into their 20s and 30s.

1233
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,600
And many of them do carry on seeing people.

1234
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,480
We're trying to, the message we have with the kids

1235
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:05,040
is not that, you know, come surfing

1236
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:06,080
and everything will be all right,

1237
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:10,040
but the journey of healing is okay.

1238
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,600
It'll be ongoing, perhaps, but it's great

1239
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:14,520
and worth being on.

1240
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:16,280
But surfing in and of itself

1241
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:17,960
is actually extremely therapeutic.

1242
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,480
Being out in nature, there's something about surfing

1243
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:23,760
that just is so good for the soul.

1244
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,920
And it's been, surfing isn't the model, it is,

1245
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:29,640
but surfing fits the model extremely well.

1246
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,040
And some of the graduates that come through,

1247
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,600
do they end up becoming mentors in the program?

1248
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:38,400
Absolutely, we've got many of the kids

1249
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:42,240
who've been through the program who've stayed involved.

1250
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:46,400
Someone like Nintendo, you know, going back to his story,

1251
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,080
he came through the program

1252
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:53,080
and became this incredible surfer who went on

1253
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,000
and surfed for South Africa twice in a row.

1254
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:58,720
He went to the world championships once in Ecuador

1255
00:56:58,720 --> 00:56:59,920
and once in California.

1256
00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:03,720
This ex street kid who'd been a glue-sniffing street kid

1257
00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:06,760
at nine years old was now representing the country,

1258
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,000
which was absolutely incredible

1259
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:10,800
and changing people's perceptions.

1260
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,360
I mean, people often looked at the kids on the streets

1261
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:16,480
as if they were, you know, the no-hopers

1262
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,600
and the naughty kids that didn't want discipline.

1263
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:20,960
And suddenly, one of these kids that had been a write-off

1264
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,560
was now representing the actual country.

1265
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:25,400
It was absolutely incredible.

1266
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:29,840
So, you know, Nintendo's become a role model to other kids.

1267
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:31,080
Kids look up to him and they think,

1268
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:34,560
wow, he was able to do it, so perhaps I can.

1269
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:35,760
And he gives back as well.

1270
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:37,960
He comes in, he spends time with the kids,

1271
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:39,480
you know, he gets involved.

1272
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:43,080
He works in this surf shop called the Surf HQ in Durban.

1273
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:45,760
It's one of the main surf shops, really cool people.

1274
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:49,400
And, you know, they have a donation area

1275
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,720
where people can bring old boards and wetsuits in,

1276
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:53,360
and then Tando then brings them down

1277
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:55,360
to the kids in our program.

1278
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,160
So, you know, he plays his part as well.

1279
00:57:58,160 --> 00:57:59,680
He's been really inspirational.

1280
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,640
And many other of the kids, both girls and boys,

1281
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:04,120
who've been through the program,

1282
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:09,120
have, are really sowing into the lives of the kids

1283
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:13,720
that are present-day, you know, beneficiaries of the program.

1284
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,000
Yeah, and that's a really important point.

1285
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:17,600
And it's something that I've talked about many times

1286
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:21,920
on this podcast too, is I always use the same analogy.

1287
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,480
So people have listened to this podcast a lot, I apologize,

1288
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,440
but take a kindergarten, you know,

1289
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,640
take a bunch of kids that are two or three years old,

1290
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:32,160
from wherever they are, let's say two years old,

1291
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:34,560
and they're running around laughing with each other.

1292
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:35,760
Let's say there's a bull thrown in,

1293
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,440
they're all chasing the bull and throwing it.

1294
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,520
That's who human beings are.

1295
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:43,760
And then what happens to us those formative years,

1296
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:45,760
then sets us on a path, you know,

1297
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:48,000
so the kids are living on the street.

1298
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,360
From some people, there's that eye rolling,

1299
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:55,120
they did it to themselves, it's their own fault mentality,

1300
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,960
instead of what happened to that person to get them there.

1301
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,440
And what happened, you know, with Nintendo,

1302
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,760
is you took that same toddler,

1303
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,200
you took them out of that horrible journey they were on,

1304
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:09,600
you put them back on a good path, and look what happens.

1305
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:11,760
He became a great young man.

1306
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:15,320
And even we see this with older people on the streets here.

1307
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:18,640
You know, was that a veteran that came back and fell apart?

1308
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:21,320
Was it someone who was abused as a child

1309
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,080
and just couldn't cope with adult life, you know?

1310
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:26,280
And I think that for those of us that are blessed,

1311
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,040
and I consider myself one of these,

1312
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,760
it really didn't have much trauma in my life.

1313
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:32,680
It's up to us to look around

1314
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:34,680
and reach out to the people that are hurting,

1315
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:36,720
instead of stepping over them,

1316
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:38,520
and it's metaphorically and physically

1317
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:40,200
what happens all over the world,

1318
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:42,960
to reach our hand out and say, you know,

1319
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:44,960
how can we get you out of this dark place

1320
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:46,120
and onto the tracks?

1321
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:48,760
Absolutely, yeah.

1322
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,600
It's an incredible responsibility.

1323
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:53,320
And one of the interesting things that I found

1324
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,320
with working with the kids on the streets,

1325
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:58,760
you'd think that the streets being sort of such a,

1326
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:01,280
a horrible place in a sense,

1327
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:04,680
because there's nothing nice about living on the streets.

1328
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:06,760
But one of the things that I've been amazed at

1329
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:09,560
is finding that the kids on the streets

1330
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,320
often have a deep compassion for each other.

1331
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:13,520
They look after each other.

1332
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:16,360
So with everyone still going through all the trauma

1333
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:18,240
that they are and the abuse on the streets,

1334
01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:20,800
they're still, the kids are still looking out for each other.

1335
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:25,600
And I've seen incredible acts of kindness

1336
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:27,200
from one street child to another,

1337
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:29,800
which I've walked away just thinking,

1338
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,960
wow, I just don't know why, but I just did not expect that.

1339
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,440
Yeah, and there's a horseman.

1340
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:38,040
I'm in the process of interviewing.

1341
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:39,080
We've done part of the interview

1342
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:40,360
and we've got to finish it off.

1343
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:41,680
His name's Buck Braneman,

1344
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:44,240
and he's basically the horse whisperer movie.

1345
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,120
It was about him pretty much.

1346
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:47,120
Oh, yeah.

1347
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:51,200
And he, in what we've done so far,

1348
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:53,680
he had a very, very abusive childhood physically.

1349
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:56,400
His father was a drunk and would beat him.

1350
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,400
But when, to the point where we got in our conversation,

1351
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:05,120
he's like, I never allowed the kindness that was in me

1352
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:08,480
to be compromised despite the cruelty that was around me.

1353
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:10,040
And that's an interesting thing

1354
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:11,680
because some people obviously do get turned

1355
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:16,080
and find themselves becoming abusers themselves,

1356
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:19,760
but there's so much kindness within most of these people.

1357
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:21,680
If you show kindness to them,

1358
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:23,240
you can pull it back out again.

1359
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:26,440
Absolutely, absolutely.

1360
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,040
We've seen that with the kids on the street.

1361
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:31,800
And I see that on a daily basis

1362
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:33,560
with some of the kids who've come through the program

1363
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:35,360
who work for the organization now.

1364
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:37,840
For example, our water safety team,

1365
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:39,960
which is three qualified lifeguards,

1366
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:42,560
all three of them are former street children.

1367
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:45,040
And they do their job really well,

1368
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:48,800
but they make sure there's safety first.

1369
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:50,280
But they also have a huge compassion,

1370
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:51,800
and the kids look up to them

1371
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:53,480
because they've been in the position

1372
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:56,440
that many of the kids we're working with are now.

1373
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:57,480
Fantastic.

1374
01:01:57,480 --> 01:01:58,360
All right, well then,

1375
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,360
this is a great segue to Girls Surf 2.

1376
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:05,120
So how did that become another initiative in itself?

1377
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:08,280
We've always worked with girls,

1378
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:12,800
but a while back we realized that there was a portion,

1379
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:14,440
there was a group of girls

1380
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:16,680
that we really weren't getting access to

1381
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:17,960
and not able to help.

1382
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:21,880
So we're working with girls on the street,

1383
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:25,080
but there's also girls that are living in these hostels,

1384
01:02:25,080 --> 01:02:28,720
these so-called shelters that are gang-run.

1385
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:32,080
They're in a sort of block of flats,

1386
01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:34,400
the whole thing is sort of just a big hostel,

1387
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:36,800
and it's terrible, terrible places,

1388
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:40,040
everything you can imagine going on in these areas.

1389
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:42,760
And we just couldn't get into these places,

1390
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:45,760
and so we couldn't work with the girls in there and the kids.

1391
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:47,200
We had to go in on one occasion,

1392
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:50,200
myself and a female social worker,

1393
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:51,600
we actually went in with bodyguards,

1394
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:54,440
so ex-street kids that come through our program

1395
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,080
accompanied us, because this is so dangerous.

1396
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:58,840
But something very interesting happened

1397
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:00,920
when we were inside the one hostel,

1398
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:04,640
the gang, which is a prison gang called the 26s,

1399
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:06,360
controlled this hostel.

1400
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:07,680
And when we went in there,

1401
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:12,360
the gang leaders came out to see what we were doing,

1402
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:15,040
and they came up to me, and the minute I saw them,

1403
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:16,600
I recognized every single one of them,

1404
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:19,080
they were kids that we'd worked with on the streets.

1405
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:21,520
So sadly, they were the kids that we hadn't been able

1406
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:23,160
to get off the streets.

1407
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:26,720
But amazingly, they remembered all the stuff

1408
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:28,240
we'd done to try and help them out.

1409
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,880
And they came over and just threw their arms around us,

1410
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:34,600
and it was actually quite a beautiful reunion.

1411
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:36,640
And they said, what are you doing here?

1412
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:38,640
And they said, well, here's the issue.

1413
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:40,880
We're worried about the girls inside here,

1414
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:43,160
and we wanna try and provide some support,

1415
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:44,000
get them out of here.

1416
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:46,280
And they were saying, yeah, fantastic.

1417
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:48,640
We don't want them to go through what we went through.

1418
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:52,680
And so, amazingly, these gang leaders

1419
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:54,200
showed just incredible compassion.

1420
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:56,960
They said, yeah, man, these girls are struggling in here.

1421
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:58,520
If you can help them, please do.

1422
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:00,880
And so they gave us access, and they said, oh, by the way,

1423
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:02,560
we control all of the shelters around here,

1424
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:05,080
so you can go into whichever ones you want.

1425
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,360
So we decided to set up this program

1426
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:11,240
specifically catering to the need of the girl child.

1427
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:13,280
So it's for girls living on the streets

1428
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,160
and for girls living in these awful hostels

1429
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:19,000
where we're basically empowering them

1430
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,200
to transform their lives, to get out of the hostels.

1431
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:24,400
So using the model of surfing, fused with mentorship

1432
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,240
and psychosocial care to transform the lives

1433
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:30,840
of these girls, some as young as six, seven years old.

1434
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:33,920
That is amazing, because anyone else who walked up,

1435
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,520
it would have probably ended in a threat or even violence.

1436
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:39,320
But the fact that you've shown kindness, compassion,

1437
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:41,640
still sat with them, even though they were a prison gang,

1438
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:45,920
to the point where now you were able to access

1439
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:48,560
all these young women that would have been completely

1440
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:50,520
shut off to you before.

1441
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:53,280
It really was one of the more extraordinary moments

1442
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:55,160
that I can remember in this world.

1443
01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:56,000
Amazing.

1444
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,280
All right, well then, while we're on the subject of all this,

1445
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:00,760
so I'd love to talk about how people listening

1446
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:02,280
can help in some way.

1447
01:05:03,720 --> 01:05:06,120
Yeah, we've got a campaign at the moment actually.

1448
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:08,240
It's just about to go, it's live,

1449
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:10,040
it's just about to go public.

1450
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:11,920
It's called Girl Surf 2 Campaign.

1451
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:15,080
And basically we started Girl Surf 2

1452
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:17,320
at the beginning of this year.

1453
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:19,160
And it's been absolutely incredible.

1454
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:23,280
We've got 45 girls at the moment who are in the program.

1455
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,440
We've got a, we run from our drop-in center on the beach,

1456
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,480
and we've also got a girls rescue center.

1457
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:34,120
And it cost us about $30,000 a year to run this program.

1458
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:36,600
And what we're trying to do with the Girl Surf 2 Campaign,

1459
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:39,680
which is to go fund the campaign,

1460
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:42,800
is that we want to guarantee this program

1461
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:43,880
for the next two years.

1462
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:46,360
It's very difficult to try and get the funding

1463
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:47,680
for a program you haven't started.

1464
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,840
So we knew that we had to take a step of faith

1465
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:54,200
and actually start the program and then show people,

1466
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:55,920
hey, this is what we're doing.

1467
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:57,520
Who wants to buy in?

1468
01:05:57,520 --> 01:05:59,120
And so we've just got to that stage now

1469
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:01,200
where we've run this thing for nine months.

1470
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:02,600
We've learned about it.

1471
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:03,600
We know we can do it.

1472
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:06,160
We know it's changing the girls lives.

1473
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:10,120
It's been an amazing learning curve for us as well,

1474
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:11,880
but we know we can deliver on this.

1475
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:15,680
So what we want to do now is with this GoFundMe campaign

1476
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:18,160
is to raise the money for this program

1477
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:21,280
so that we can guarantee this for the next two years.

1478
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:22,120
Brilliant.

1479
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:23,160
Well, I will put the links to that

1480
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:25,400
on the show notes for this episode.

1481
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,640
So jamesgearing.com and then Tom Hewitt episode.

1482
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:29,480
You can click on that

1483
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:31,560
and then you'll be able to get right to the links to help.

1484
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:32,600
And then I'll also, of course,

1485
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:35,360
share the links on social media as well.

1486
01:06:36,320 --> 01:06:37,160
That was wonderful.

1487
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:38,520
Thanks ever so much.

1488
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:39,360
Brilliant.

1489
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:40,240
All right, well, I want to transition

1490
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:42,200
to some closing questions.

1491
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:43,800
The first one that I love to ask,

1492
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,360
is there a book that you love to recommend?

1493
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:48,680
It can be about what we've discussed or someone complete,

1494
01:06:48,680 --> 01:06:51,080
excuse me, some subject completely different.

1495
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:54,000
Yeah, I think if going back

1496
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:56,560
to when I started the organization,

1497
01:06:56,560 --> 01:06:58,240
and by the way, let me just say that

1498
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:03,160
this isn't by no means a one person organization.

1499
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:07,040
I have an incredible team of colleagues that I work with,

1500
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:08,520
all local South Africans.

1501
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:11,200
They're absolutely fantastic crew.

1502
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:14,040
But when I started the organization,

1503
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:18,680
there was a book by a Brazilian educationalist

1504
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:22,280
called Paulo Freire, called Pedagogy of the Oppressed.

1505
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:24,640
And that was a really seminal book for us

1506
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:28,320
because it really helped me understand the idea of,

1507
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:31,320
often oppressed people,

1508
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:33,240
if you're told every single day of your life

1509
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:36,320
that you're not as good as the next person,

1510
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:38,000
you tend to internalize this.

1511
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:39,040
It's just human nature.

1512
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:40,960
You do, you somehow realize,

1513
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:44,560
you somehow feel that maybe this is your lot in life.

1514
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:47,720
This is who you're supposed to be,

1515
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:50,280
even to the extent of maybe it's your own fault.

1516
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:52,720
And Paulo Freire was saying,

1517
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:56,520
he was talking about a process of conscientization

1518
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,680
whereby are given the tools with which to see themselves,

1519
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:02,080
to revision themselves as full human beings.

1520
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:04,200
So to overcome this,

1521
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:06,480
what's being placed upon them as being inferior

1522
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:09,520
and second class and seeing themselves

1523
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:11,920
in there as a full human.

1524
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,280
And so Pedagogy of the Oppressed,

1525
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:16,160
it's a translated book from,

1526
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:17,000
I'm gonna say Portuguese,

1527
01:08:17,000 --> 01:08:19,360
cause I think he's Brazilian,

1528
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:20,600
was really amazing.

1529
01:08:20,600 --> 01:08:24,840
And then Steve Biko, also influenced by Paulo Freire,

1530
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,760
his book, I Write What I Like, was very interesting

1531
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:28,960
because it was a similar thing

1532
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:33,240
in the context of apartheid South Africa.

1533
01:08:33,240 --> 01:08:34,080
Brilliant.

1534
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:35,080
I haven't heard of either of those two,

1535
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:36,160
so I'm gonna add those to the list.

1536
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:38,000
Thank you so much.

1537
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:39,440
Next question, is there a movie

1538
01:08:39,440 --> 01:08:42,560
that you love or film as we say in England?

1539
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:43,400
Funny enough,

1540
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:45,600
The Cry Freedom was one of my favorite films,

1541
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:49,120
the one that you mentioned.

1542
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:51,760
I mean, man, I watched that so many times.

1543
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,960
And right at the time when I went out to South Africa,

1544
01:08:54,960 --> 01:09:00,000
that was a really important movie in my life.

1545
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:01,280
It inspired me.

1546
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:04,280
And actually, the family of Donald Woods,

1547
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:05,960
who was the journalist,

1548
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:08,440
she came around to visit that project

1549
01:09:08,440 --> 01:09:09,360
that I spoke about earlier,

1550
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:10,920
my first project in the Eastern Cape

1551
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:12,480
and East London in South Africa.

1552
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:15,480
What was powerful to me is,

1553
01:09:15,480 --> 01:09:17,960
I was like I said, 13 when I watched Cry Freedom.

1554
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:18,960
And then before that,

1555
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,800
I remember as a young, young boy being fascinated

1556
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:24,600
with the Stanley and Livingston story

1557
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:26,960
and how that was ultimately the beginning

1558
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:30,040
of abolition of slavery by the British.

1559
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:33,880
And now, as a 45 year old man,

1560
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:37,000
I look back at when I was little

1561
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:40,360
and racism just made no sense whatsoever.

1562
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:42,800
Slavery certainly made no sense to me.

1563
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:45,880
And it just, it blows me away that whether it's slavery,

1564
01:09:45,880 --> 01:09:48,360
whether it's genocide,

1565
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:53,200
how some people can be conditioned to think that's right

1566
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:55,920
when I believe in our depths of our soul,

1567
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:58,640
that we know that all these negative practices

1568
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:00,600
are completely, inherently wrong.

1569
01:10:02,040 --> 01:10:04,200
It was very interesting because we,

1570
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:09,200
historically obviously there haven't been many black surfers.

1571
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:11,280
Now with surfers on street children,

1572
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:12,880
there really are, it's open.

1573
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:14,800
And there are a lot of black surfers.

1574
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:17,120
But if you look at the youngsters in our program,

1575
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:18,360
the young black kids,

1576
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:21,920
and you look at the young white surfers in the area,

1577
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:23,080
they all get on well.

1578
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:27,240
I mean, they all, they don't really notice color.

1579
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:29,280
They hang out, they're just kids together.

1580
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:32,320
And it's so interesting in the new South Africa,

1581
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:36,320
just looking at the way the kids hang out together at school,

1582
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:39,760
it's so different to how it was under apartheid

1583
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:43,200
with their parents or the parents or grandparents.

1584
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:44,400
That is fantastic.

1585
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:46,680
I mean, we talk about this in the fire service.

1586
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:49,320
There's certain individuals that are sexist,

1587
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:52,240
that are racist, that are homophobic, whatever it is.

1588
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:55,560
And when you put a firefighter next to another one,

1589
01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:58,120
when they're wearing their gear, you can't tell.

1590
01:10:58,120 --> 01:10:58,960
It's irrelevant.

1591
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:01,760
You put a surfer in a wet suit

1592
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:02,720
and put them out on a wave.

1593
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:04,360
You can't tell the black one from the white one

1594
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:06,440
when they're wet and they're on the board.

1595
01:11:06,440 --> 01:11:10,800
And it is, it's crazy the way we start to pigeonhole people

1596
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:14,720
to really divide them instead of seeing the commonalities

1597
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:16,360
that we all have.

1598
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:17,200
Absolutely.

1599
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:19,320
Right, well, you mentioned Cry Freedom.

1600
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:20,440
What about documentaries?

1601
01:11:20,440 --> 01:11:23,200
Are there any of those that you've seen that you love?

1602
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:27,480
I can't think of one.

1603
01:11:27,480 --> 01:11:32,480
Yes, I'm sure many, many, many.

1604
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:37,320
I particularly, remember earlier I spoke about the project

1605
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:39,200
that was right next to a rubbish dump.

1606
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:42,200
I do take quite an interest in,

1607
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,120
often I see documentaries about communities

1608
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,760
living on rubbish dumps and that really resonates to me

1609
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:51,320
because that was a really important moment,

1610
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:54,800
witnessing people living in such depths of poverty.

1611
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:56,680
It was so tragic that that stayed with me

1612
01:11:56,680 --> 01:11:59,400
and I do take an interest in documentaries,

1613
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:02,440
documenting communities where they are having to etch out

1614
01:12:02,440 --> 01:12:04,880
an existence from refuse.

1615
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:08,640
Yeah, and that shouldn't be a thing on planet Earth period

1616
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:10,720
as affluent as most of us are.

1617
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:12,440
Absolutely, yeah.

1618
01:12:12,440 --> 01:12:14,720
All right, well then the next question I always like to ask,

1619
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:16,720
is there a person that you'd recommend to come

1620
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:20,200
on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders

1621
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:22,800
in Military of the World and everyone else that listens?

1622
01:12:22,800 --> 01:12:25,400
Good question.

1623
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:28,920
I'll have to give it some thought because again,

1624
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:31,240
just off the top of my head, that's quite a hard one

1625
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:36,240
to come up with but I've had interactions

1626
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:40,400
with some incredible people over the years

1627
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:43,920
so I could probably think of more than a few actually, yeah.

1628
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:47,160
Beautiful, all right, yeah, we'll do that after this then.

1629
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:49,320
All right, so then the last question before we just

1630
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:50,600
reiterate where everyone can find you

1631
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:51,920
and where they can donate,

1632
01:12:51,920 --> 01:12:54,880
what do you do to decompress if there's anything aside

1633
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:55,720
from surfing?

1634
01:12:56,600 --> 01:13:00,840
Yeah, obviously surfing, yeah.

1635
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:02,680
And I also do stand-up paddle boarding.

1636
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:06,000
I find that I compete in stand-up paddle boarding

1637
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:08,000
but surfing the paddle boards.

1638
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:10,880
So I try and sort of keep up with the 20 year olds.

1639
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:13,080
And every now and again, I win a contest

1640
01:13:13,080 --> 01:13:15,640
so it kind of keeps me stoked.

1641
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:22,320
But I have three boys and a wife and so family time

1642
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:24,680
is really important to me.

1643
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:27,760
My eldest son is 14, he's really into skateboarding

1644
01:13:27,760 --> 01:13:29,880
and trying to connect with him as much as possible.

1645
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:33,760
The 12 year old is a contest surfer

1646
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:38,760
so he's sort of just lives surfing

1647
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:41,200
and I've got a six year old as well.

1648
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:45,600
And family time is golden and I do travel quite a bit

1649
01:13:45,600 --> 01:13:49,880
for my work so I really cherish the times that I'm with them.

1650
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:53,200
And my kids have kind of grown up around all the street kids

1651
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:55,880
as well so it'll be really interesting to see

1652
01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:57,320
what effect that has on their lives

1653
01:13:57,320 --> 01:13:59,000
because they're very compassionate

1654
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:02,920
because they've had some actually quite hard experiences

1655
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:05,800
like kids that they were close to dying on the streets

1656
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:08,320
of drug overdoses or violence.

1657
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:10,080
That's really tough stuff for kids to,

1658
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:14,440
for your own kids to have to go through as well

1659
01:14:14,440 --> 01:14:16,320
just as it is for the other kids living on the streets

1660
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:18,240
to have to see those things.

1661
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:20,240
So yeah, definitely family time.

1662
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:22,720
And also I'm a sucker for watching,

1663
01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:27,560
binge watching a season of something.

1664
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:33,680
To really sort of zone out, I'll just put a TV show on

1665
01:14:33,680 --> 01:14:34,800
and just binge watch.

1666
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:36,840
I don't watch TV other than that,

1667
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:39,960
but a good series, man, I could sit up all night

1668
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:40,800
watching that.

1669
01:14:41,800 --> 01:14:43,520
Brilliant, well just what you're saying about the kids,

1670
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:45,080
I think that's very important as well.

1671
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:47,600
They watch us as far as how we eat,

1672
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:49,560
they watch us as far as our exercise habits,

1673
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:52,080
but they also watch us as far as our compassion

1674
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:54,880
and kindness and my little boy, bless him,

1675
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:58,520
he's done charity, workout, fundraisers,

1676
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:00,280
and we just walked the other day

1677
01:15:00,280 --> 01:15:02,560
for like a suicide awareness thing.

1678
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:04,880
He knows about this project, he actually did.

1679
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:07,040
He spoke on one of the episodes of my podcast

1680
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:10,640
about his mental health challenges.

1681
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:15,320
And I think it's so important because now that generation

1682
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:17,920
is normal for them to exercise, to eat well,

1683
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:22,000
to be vulnerable, and hopefully we can change the world,

1684
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:25,400
this next generation, it will be the first wave.

1685
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:27,640
Absolutely, yeah.

1686
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:29,720
Brilliant, okay, well I wanna say firstly,

1687
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:32,800
thank you so much, but let's make sure that we reiterate

1688
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:34,240
where everyone can find you guys.

1689
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:38,040
So firstly, Instagram, what's the handle you have there?

1690
01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:39,640
Yeah, Instagram is our name.

1691
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:42,560
SurfersNotStreetChildren.

1692
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:46,560
Probably once you get to the surfers and then N,

1693
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:47,880
it probably pops up.

1694
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:53,880
But yeah, that's probably the best place to keep up with us

1695
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:56,480
on a day-to-day basis.

1696
01:15:56,480 --> 01:15:59,320
Facebook is also SurfersNotStreetChildren,

1697
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:04,320
and our website is surfnotstreets.org.

1698
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:07,640
Brilliant, and again, I'll put all those on the show notes

1699
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:09,880
on the website.

1700
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:12,560
So, and then as far as the link to donate,

1701
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:14,160
where's the best place to find that?

1702
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:20,520
The link to donate is, I'm going to send that link to you,

1703
01:16:22,240 --> 01:16:26,280
and then that will be all over our Instagram and Facebook.

1704
01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:31,280
And you can donate on our website,

1705
01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:34,600
it's very easy and very safe, but the specific one

1706
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:36,800
for the Girls Surf 2 campaign

1707
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:38,480
will be all over our social media.

1708
01:16:38,480 --> 01:16:41,600
And hopefully some of our supporters are going to

1709
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:44,120
sort of pump that out as well, like Kelly Slater,

1710
01:16:44,120 --> 01:16:46,920
for example, and a number of others.

1711
01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:49,880
So, you know, hopefully in the surfing world,

1712
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:51,680
there'll be a lot of people pushing that as well.

1713
01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:52,520
We're excited about that.

1714
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:54,720
Yeah, well, I know there's a lot of firefighters

1715
01:16:54,720 --> 01:16:56,560
at Surfers, my old department in California,

1716
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:59,860
kind of a

1717
01:16:59,860 --> 01:17:03,000
California, having that three quarters of the department surf.

1718
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:03,840
So,

1719
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:05,000
Oh, that's awesome.

1720
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,960
Yeah, so hopefully we can get the first responders

1721
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:10,580
of the world to make this happen just on their own.

1722
01:17:11,580 --> 01:17:13,280
So, okay, well, beautiful.

1723
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:14,400
Fantastic, well, thank you.

1724
01:17:14,400 --> 01:17:16,880
Well, I just want to say thank you so much.

1725
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:18,960
You know, I love what you're doing.

1726
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:22,420
I love connecting with people like you that have taken up,

1727
01:17:22,420 --> 01:17:25,560
you know, just picked up one area that needs to be helped,

1728
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:28,300
especially to do it in a completely different country.

1729
01:17:28,300 --> 01:17:31,400
And, you know, I just appreciate you taking the time

1730
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:32,920
to talk to us.

1731
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:34,480
Well, thank you very much for the opportunity.

1732
01:17:34,480 --> 01:17:37,920
And I really do appreciate your encouragement as well.

1733
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:38,760
Thanks for that.

1734
01:17:38,760 --> 01:18:02,260
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