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Welcome to episode 411 of Behind the Shield podcast.
As always, my name is James Gearing and this week is my absolute honor to welcome on the show Chuck Liddell.
Now, Chuck is obviously a legend in the UFC, but also has a very powerful life story from the mentorship from his grandfather,
overcoming physical ailments as a young boy, bullying, his journey through martial arts and so much more.
So firstly, it was an absolute honor to talk to him.
He actually did this conversation on fight night on the day that McGregor and Poirier fought.
So that in itself was amazing, but also he did it in the middle of his workday.
So there is a little bit of activity in the background, some kids, some dogs, some squeaky chairs, but it doesn't detract at all from the incredible conversation.
Before we get to that interview, as I say every week, please just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this on,
subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.
Every five star rating elevates this podcast, making it easier for others to find.
And this is a free library for you, Planet Earth.
So all I ask in return is you help share these incredible men and women's stories so I can get them to everyone else who needs to hear them.
So with that being said, I introduce to you Chuck Liddell. Enjoy.
Chuck, I want to start by saying thank you.
Thank you so much for coming on the show and thank you to Bill Grundler for connecting us as well.
So welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.
Thank you for having me. Bill's been a friend of mine for a long time.
I wrestled with him in college, so it's been a while.
Yeah, well, as we were saying before we started recording, Bill definitely dropped some truth bombs on my community that needed to be heard.
So I'd say that was one of the more needed to be heard episodes that I've done so far.
He's fantastic. So my opening question is always where on planet Earth are we finding you today?
I'm in Calabasas, California.
Beautiful. All right. Well, I love to start at the absolute beginning.
So tell me where you were actually born and then tell me about your family dynamic, what your parents did and how many siblings.
Born and raised in Santa Barbara.
It was an interesting dynamic, I guess.
I mean, when I was really young, my father left and I was raised by my mother.
And my we moved in with, you know, we didn't make a lot of money.
We didn't work for so we had we moved in with my grandparents.
And so it was actually my grandparents and my great grandmother.
So we had my great grandmother was in one room.
My grandma, grandpa were in one room. Me and my two brothers are in one room.
My mom and my sister were in one room.
So that comes in, two brothers, two young younger brothers and an older sister.
Beautiful. I know, like actually, funnily enough, quite a few high level athletes.
You had some physical issues when you were young.
So tell me about those.
Yeah, well, I had I had an issue with when they wanted me to put me in those leg braces.
You know, my mom, you know, like so kind of like that four scalp leg braces, you know, you see in the show.
And we didn't have the money for it and didn't do it.
But they said they had a bunch of exercises they gave my mom to put me through where I was really little.
I had to help me keep my knees together.
I forget exactly what it was called.
She helped me with that for my book, what I did.
So, but yeah, it you know, I think part of that helped me get started early being having to go through a routine of exercises where she was, you know, kind of
move me through it and going through that pain and and having a result that worked.
You know, I think that started me early with that.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And so you talk as well in the book about, you know, the the parental figures in your family.
Obviously, your mom was a single mother, but you had pops as well.
And I think for this community, the audience that's listening with military and first responders, his story is actually very powerful from what he did in his career.
So if you wouldn't mind, tell me who pops was and how he was through your eyes.
Well, you know, my grandfather was he, you know, he stepped in to be to be my father figure.
And, you know, he had, you know, I mean, he he kind of he raised me his way.
You know, he he is an old school guy from Brooklyn.
Tough guy there. He's getting in trouble.
But then he went into the military for the war.
And then when he got out, he stayed in Santa Barbara and eventually became a deputy sheriff and then the sheriff's coroner.
And yeah, he's a big influence on my life as far as, you know, teaching me, teaching me how to fight, teaching me how to be a man, really, you know, teaching me how, you know, he was one of those guys.
And I like, I know my wife has to be like, you know, about because I always say one of my biggest regrets is he never saw me finish my career.
He saw me start. He saw me fight once kickboxing.
And, you know, she's all he must have been proud of that night.
He knocked the guy out or whatever. And I said, oh, he would have been proud of me.
I got knocked out in the first round because he knows I gave it everything I got.
So, you know, for me, you know, he really put that in me where a couple of things.
And I'm trying to figure out how he taught it to me.
And I want to give it to my kids because I was never afraid of anyone growing up.
Like, I wasn't afraid of him. I'm not never afraid of anybody.
Amen. Just because it's not like it's kind of hard to explain.
But I guess my feeling is you can be in a fight and defense will fight.
You know, if you do something that requires me to step to you or fight you,
I'm going to fight you no matter if I think you're going to beat me up or I think you're not.
I think you have no chance in hell. Right.
So for me, having that feeling where you can walk into any situation where you don't have that fear involved,
you know, and you don't have that involved in the equation, you can make better judgments,
you make better decisions. And I want to pass that on to my kids.
And I'm still trying to figure out how he actually got me to feel that confident and that comfortable with me in that way.
Yeah. Well, did he put you in, you know, uncomfortable situations as far as physically and that kind of thing when you were young
to kind of almost like show you that there wasn't anything to be scared of from being in that discomfort?
You know, I think there was a little bit of that.
You know, I mean, my brother, we get in arguments and start bashing up on it,
so I tell us to go beat each other up until we got tired.
And I didn't want to, you know, panting.
I don't want to. You know, I know you guys are done. Keep going.
You know, but but yeah, a lot of it more of his stuff was positive.
And I never wanted to disappoint him.
You know, like he was always always there for me, always did everything, helped me with everything, was always there for me.
So I never wanted to disappoint him. So now with him being a police officer as well,
when I look back at my career, I've been a martial artist most of my life, always prefaces.
I've been a punching bag for some great fighters in my life.
I've never been a competitive martial artist as far as professionally.
However, I found, especially looking back at my younger years, I was terrified when someone tried to fight me face to face,
but I was fearless if it was protecting someone else, if that makes sense.
So did you notice that element when you were younger?
I don't think I was never afraid of anything, but I would, you know, I actually think it's pretty funny.
You say something like that. My son, I was like a little nervous about that.
I wasn't getting stuff across my side because he's letting kids take stuff from him and they push him.
They're going to take something from him and they wouldn't do anything about it.
And I was like, man, is he scared of these kids? I got to work on this. I got to do this.
And then I, we were at my little, my daughter had a birthday party.
She's in kindergarten, I think, at the time. And we brought him with us to school.
And some two boys, they're head taller than my son, both of them, are hitting their balloons.
She turned around, like, hey, stop hitting my balloons. And then he stands there.
And then the kids, they hit it again. He got right up in their face.
Put it, look, just like my grandfather to chin out right in their face.
Hey, don't touch my sister's balloons. And push the kids back.
And then like, you know, kids are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know.
And I saw him do that again for her. Like, so I, oh, OK, he just doesn't care.
They're taking this stuff. They want it. They can have it.
He's he's just really he's a sweet kid. He's really nice.
So it's just being sweet. He's not.
But if they saw anyone does anything to his sister, he's right in there, right in there.
Like, what are you doing?
You know, I got I got this.
And so, you know, but that's kind of I like seeing that.
So I know he's he's not he's not that he's not not being afraid.
So that's that's good. Yeah, absolutely.
Well, what about your journey into martial arts? Let's talk about that.
Was that following, you know, like, George and Pierre, for example, who,
you know, was bullied and that was his kind of way through?
Or did you just find a school and follow it that way?
No, I I was bullied when I was younger, like
like when I was really young, kindergarten age, and I was again
getting beat up to my lunch, my lunch money, money taken from me,
wresting away from me and stuff.
And actually, the principal
would call up my mom and said, because he asked me, why don't you fight back?
You know, this old days, the day back in the back.
Or what is that early eighties, seventies, late seventies?
So he's like, why don't you fight back?
And my mom said, I can't fight.
And so they
they told my my mom and my mom come in and she said,
hey, look, I like what you're trying to do with this non-violence thing,
but you've got to let this kid defend himself because I can't watch him
all the time and the kids are he's getting beat up all the time.
And so she said, OK, as you took me to my grandfather,
I had him start from teaching me how to throw some punches and stuff.
And and then, you know, I told me,
it's OK, don't start the fight, but you can finish it.
You know, you can fight if they attack you, you can fight.
And I started defending myself and people started leaving me alone.
You know, and as they move forward, I got about when I was about 10, I really
had a man when I started watching Kung Fu Theater
and they had martial arts
demonstrations in between, like a double feature.
They have these demonstrations on there.
And I was so amazed by that, you know, those those
demonstrations. And I thought, you know, hey, I'm going to go join this
or join karate and I'm going to learn a few
I'm going to learn some secret moves and I'm going to be like
be a ninja. You know, I'm going to be a ninja.
I'm going to be a ninja, you know, I'm going to be a super fighter.
And, you know, and I actually so I kept after my mom,
I was trying to learn how to books, you know, and stuff.
And I can go after my mom and go and go.
She finally said, OK, I'll take you.
I'll get you into karate class.
So we went looking for a place and we actually went to a place.
It was funny that the Kempo place we went to, we went to a Kempo place
three times and it was the third time it was an open room was supposed to be.
And I was, I don't know if we're going to go here.
And we were walking home and we saw the Koi Kon Karate Dojo
Dojo was on the way home on the watch the wall and walk home.
And, oh, well, we checked this place out.
I walked in and it was really
lucky that I that I got in that place, because it was the perfect place for me.
They because I was a real ADD kid.
So I was really kind of hard to keep my attention.
But I really, really wanted to be a martial artist.
I wanted to learn karate.
And when I went in there, there's an old, old, old school teaching, you know,
like they show you a reverse punch and tell you to go work.
OK, do that 500 times on each side and then we'll come back and check.
So you're sitting there going, OK, I got this punch 500 times on each side.
OK. And then they come back and they.
But you had to get better at it, so they give you the next move.
And I wanted the next move.
I wanted them the next move.
And they had a high attrition rate at three to six months,
because I think that's when people figure out that there's
there's no magic to this.
You're not going to get a magic, but it's just hard work and knowledge and learning.
And and for me, the difference for me was I saw that as weight.
You mean, if I keep working hard, if I work hard, as I can pass that guy,
I can get better than those guys over there.
And those guys are there doing that stuff.
I want to be able to do. I can get past them.
If I can. The harder I work, the faster I get past them.
Oh, perfect.
And I'll be out. I was there every day all the time.
I mean, once I started, I was there.
It was like an open.
I think the gym was open from 10 to eight.
You come as much or as little as you want, you know,
four days a week and then Saturdays were open for four hours.
And I'd be there every day.
I mean, every time I could, anytime I could be there.
I guess I go after I mean, I go after wrestling practice.
I get ready. If I had to have a rest practice, I go.
I go to the gym, go to karate, you know, football games.
I there's time after the football game, I go to karate.
You know, it didn't matter.
If I had if I could get there, I get there.
And so, you know, it it really
that's how I kind of got started in karate.
And I love that. You know, it's one of those things I
I love doing it and I love learning more.
And, you know, and I love I love Spartan.
And that was one of the things that's really great about that gym, too, is like,
you know, they had about we had probably a good crew from
depending on what time of what year it was.
But we had a good crew from, you know, 20, 30, 40 guys.
You know, these about 20 show up at night, but about 40 guys total
that they really liked getting in there and fight, you know, and train together.
And they're, you know, tough guys that could just brawl.
Galvez brothers, a bunch of guys that really had had a good time
training with really tough guys.
And it was just, you know, we beat the hell out of each other
and make each other better.
Now, what what were the the rules you spied under?
Because I did Shotokan and I did Taekwondo.
And, you know, at Taekwondo, I got national titles, but then was just
over and over again, I was humbled when I started doing real full contact,
because obviously the rules that I fought under in a way
got in the way of me actually learning how to fight.
So what was your experience?
Well, my experience, our rule, we had that was one of the things
that with with our gym was that we had we had small head gear
that we'd wear for like for like and head contact was legal.
You know, there's still it was still more point fighting.
So if you got one good punch, you're not going to follow up
and chase them down, not finish knocking them out.
But we did. I mean, it was full contacts.
We had we had these Bogo head gears that the big head gears that were.
And then we used to be able to same thing.
It also helped you with you don't have a lot of peripheral vision
and those things you had to get used to feeling where
feeling where someone's coming from.
But yeah, we we it was it was full contact.
And we and you know, sometimes we do some words like to got to on one.
Well, we did wall training where you're stuck with it back to the wall.
You have to fight off the wall.
A lot of different like street scenario stuff.
And it was a lot.
You know, we were allowed you're allowed to you're allowed to grab.
You know, you could you could take that down.
You could throw.
We weren't doing any ground fighting yet.
But but, you know, there was there was
we were allowed to do takedowns.
So that that helped to help a little for that kind of fighting, too.
So when you look back now, having, you know, trained in all these
different disciplines now, you know, Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu,
if you could actually take the Bruce Lee philosophy, absorb what is useful.
What would you pull out of that art then keep to your current training?
Well, out of out of that, I kept a lot of it.
I mean, a lot of that lot of stuff I got from there was a lot of that.
I mean, I learned a lot of the basic technique techniques basics.
A lot of the basics of twisting my hips and throwing, you know,
getting the power from where you get your power from.
A lot of the just move like there's a lot of foot movement in that style.
So a lot of that.
And one of the things I did back then, too, you weren't allowed to do that.
But I did it anyway.
They have we had our kata day was on Friday.
And I go for the minimum amount of time I had to be there.
And then I would leave and I go to the Kung Fu school on Friday nights.
We do open sparring.
You know, so the first time I go down there, you go into Sparrow.
You know, I've been a bunch of street fights at that point,
but the first time you go down there, you go down and you see a Taekwondo guy.
He's coming out. He wears, you know, it's a different.
He's coming out way, way different than the guys I'm used to.
I'm used to the guys I'm with.
Those guys I train with are all kind of street brawler type guys.
You know, heavy bangers that want to get a guy coming with his flying kicks.
And you're trying to. OK, wait, what's going on with this?
And are you going to come in there guys to boxer and go then fight with them
or whatever kickboxer or whatever style they came from.
But it was that that was one of the things I think really helped me move
move forward as being a fighter, too.
And even when I came back to hard jam and and we weren't supposed to do that,
because you were not supposed to go outside the art or whatever.
But I, you know, I was a kid and I wanted to learn.
I thought going and working with other styles, other people made sense.
So I did it on the side.
Well, now, obviously, you now, as we're talking, you're in Hollywood yourself.
What was some of the movies that inspired you back then as a kid?
You know, one of the ones I used to watch all the time, too, I mean, it's funny.
It's funny. But the the master ninja, the ninja show,
I think it was called the master, I think it was.
I was like a weekly show.
It was the guys driving around and the guy driving around his van
and the master and they're going around doing things.
It was it was it was really cool back then.
I was like, oh, man, I want to get home to see that.
See that episode.
Yeah. Did you ever have that moment?
Because I did, you know, you have as a wide eyed child, you're watching,
you know, the karate kid, Van Damme movies, you know,
Kung Fu, the the series.
And then you get into martial arts and one day you turn around and look and go,
oh, actually, I'm you know, I'm a better martial artist.
Most of these people that were portraying them when I was a kid.
Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah.
You got to go, man. Oh, OK.
Illusion shattered.
But now, you know, I look at it, you know, now I'm
I guess I have around movies and stuff, but I look at it as it's, you know,
it's a movie, you know, you get it.
They can't be.
I mean, I guess you've got the good actors as opposed to some of the big movies.
Good actors as opposed to having
good martial artists, so it's all good.
Yeah. All right.
Well, then lead us through your journey into discovering the UFC as a spectator
and then and then your journey into that sport yourself.
Oh, well, that's the the fast version, I guess.
I mean, I watched the first one. I was in the fight and so my buddies, I mean,
there's really things in the audience, you know, eight men under one man lead.
But you can check it out like a street fighting and like,
you know, I remember and I remember going back to like the early one, like I saw
I should have Shamrock, I think, finish someone with a heel hook, right?
Or a leg lock, a straight leg lock.
And my and my buddies were like, what is that?
Why do you tap what he's not doing anything?
That doesn't hurt. Like what?
And I'm like, wait a minute.
And I at that point, I've done a lot of martial arts.
I've done a lot of reading, read a lot of different books on different stuff.
And and I've done a little bit of Kijujitsu.
So I'm like, wait, let me let me see.
Let me see that. OK, how do you do that?
Let me see. And I figured out how to do a straight leg like a straight leg lock.
You know, like, you know, like, see, see that.
How does that feel good?
Now, like my body's like, oh, you know, why you tapping?
Why you tapping? I thought that didn't hurt.
So it was a bit.
And I remember back in the day, I remember Lorenzo Neal, a football player.
If you know where he is, there was really good fullback back in the day.
A good friend of mine, but he used to always come in.
Why don't you do this, man?
You're a wrestler and you're and you're a fighter like you should be in the UFC.
Like, I'm like, yeah. So how do we get in?
I don't know. I'll do it. Let's just get me in.
You know, and and
everybody would talk about these tournaments that you did to get in.
And I used to hear all these stories about,
oh, yeah, my instructor went to the tournament, but he was hurting people too bad.
So they wouldn't let him in.
And like, like, come on.
But and so and at that time,
there was no tournament to get into the UFC.
There was no, you know, it was, you know, you fought places and you got into the UFC.
You know, if you were good enough, someone saw you fight, they go,
you want to fight in the UFC? OK, good.
And so eventually, like I actually Nick Nick Blomgren,
longer story, but he kind of got me into kickboxing.
And then he actually got me into doing a mixed ring.
Doing a mixed fight. He's like, you know, my buddy Alfie Alka as you train with him was like,
I told him, hey, Chuck's a pretty good wrestler.
And I was kickboxing from him doing a kickboxing show.
He's like, he's doing a mixed fight in Vegas.
And he's like, I want to do like a couple of pancreas fights on my kickboxing show.
So the open hand striking fights.
And I'm like, OK, Chuck, Alfie says you're a pretty good wrestler.
You want to fight fighting one of these?
I said, sure. Why not?
So I went out and did it.
And I knocked out a head kick.
I mean, one of the floors, I take him right in the head and he goes face goes straight to the floor.
And a guy comes up and goes, hey, do you want to fight in the UFC?
I'm like, sure.
And I was next thing I was fighting in UFC 17.
I was an alternate to the tournament.
And the rest is history, I guess.
I mean, from there on, I fell in love with the sport and just kind of kept going.
Beautiful.
Well, you mentioned about open hand strikes.
So what is your philosophy?
I had Bas Rutten on the show a little while ago, and he was obviously talking about that for street fighting.
What is your philosophy on open hand strikes in the real world outside the cage?
Well, I mean, they work.
If you're worried about hurting your hands, I mean,
they're a good option for you.
I mean, I always liked elbows in the street because they work pretty good.
And you can make them look like you're trying to push the guy.
Wait, am I going to get myself in trouble here?
No, there's only police officers into this.
You're fine.
Yeah, no, but I was actually doing a thing for police officers in the sheriff's department.
They asked me to just down the sheriff's department down here, and Ventura asked me to do a thing on
something that happened.
They showed me a video of something happen in a jail.
And how should they have done?
What should they have done different?
What could they have done better kind of thing in a small PSA sort of thing to their deputies?
And I'm like, talking to the guys, I'm like, can I say stuff on the internet, talk about how
they can get away with something, make it look like something or am I not supposed to talk about it?
I'm like, I just don't want to get anyone in trouble.
But I mean, it comes down to a lot of stuff.
It's like anything else.
I used to watch guys get in a fight.
I saw a guy chasing a guy once behind the bar.
And he's chasing after this guy.
And the guy's like, dude, just leave me alone, man.
I don't want to fight you.
It was a big guy walking away from a little guy.
And finally, the little guy hits him in the back and punches him in the back of the head.
He turns around and drops the guy, right?
And then runs off.
And then the guy gets up and starts running around looking for cops to turn him in.
And my buddies came by, they were cops.
They were like, hey, man, did you see what happened?
I'm like, look, yeah.
But honestly, this guy punched a guy in the back of the head and the guy turned around
and hit him.
And the guy had been trying to walk away from him for like 20 yards.
So, I don't know that you want to follow anybody.
So, I just say, okay, we'll take care of it.
Beautiful.
Yeah.
So, with going back to your kind of journey in the UFC, tell me about finding John Hackerman
in the pit.
Oh, well, that was before that.
Like, actually, now, I guess we'll get back to talking to the guy that got me into fighting.
The guy that got me into fighting MMA was One Kick Nick, actually.
He's the guy that had me, Nick Blomgren.
He's actually the guy that got me into kickboxing.
Because, well, I don't know if it's who you want to credit, but Alfie, Alec Rez, a friend
of mine, he's kickboxing.
I was coming out to watch him fight in Vegas.
Where I got there from the weigh-ins and I'm sitting there at the weigh-ins and Nick comes
over to me and goes, hey, Alfie says you're a pretty tough guy.
You want to fight tomorrow night?
And I sat there for a second.
I go, yeah, why not?
I'm here.
And he goes over to have me go check in and go to weigh in.
And then, OK, how many fights you got?
I'm like, I don't have any.
Why?
And they're like, oh.
They kind of roll their eyes and look at Nick like, no, this is not going to happen.
Because he was going to have me fight the guy at the main event.
He was 15 years old.
Oof.
I don't know.
He's like, I actually fought that guy in my fourth fight.
I think I knocked him out.
But I think it was my fourth or fifth fight that knocked him out.
But that was later.
But John Hatteman, I met John Hatteman at the gym the week before, right before I left
for that thing.
I went to the gym.
I used to train.
I called me in to spar with this black belt that was coming in.
And we did point sparring at the gym.
Not real head contact, but just point sparring, like tap to the face and make it hard to the
body.
And you could do some, right.
I took him down a couple of times.
But other than that, he was kicking my butt.
And I hadn't had anyone kick my butt in a long time.
So I got his card.
And we talked about training together.
And his card said, we're champion kickboxing.
And I'm like, and so I put it in my pocket and think about it.
I went to watch the fight.
And Nick said, well, since I can't get you on this card, I'll put you on my neck.
Go home and train.
And I'll come back.
Come back.
And I'll put you on the next one.
I said, OK, cool.
And I was driving home from Vegas.
I'm like, yeah, I got that guy's card in my pocket.
So I actually called John Hatteman up and said, hey, I want to train.
And I started talking.
This guy talked about me about kickboxing.
I want to compete.
So yeah, I want to train.
So yeah, I come up to my house.
So I came out to his house.
Short version, I went up and basically I went up and I sparred with him.
He beat the little piss out of me for about 19 straight minutes.
His buddy, Jesus Sanchez, is a little martial artist.
He had his unofficial time was 19 minutes when he decided to call it.
He was like, come on, guys, stop.
I think he just got tired of seeing me get hit.
I never boxed.
It was just boxing my whole life.
John's had 200 amateur fights, probably 60 between boxing and kickboxing, 60 some odd pro fights.
And I was leaving.
It was raining and it was raining.
He said, yeah, and I said, I had a motorcycle up and it was raining.
And I was leaving and he's like, hey, take my truck.
I said, well, no, it's okay.
I'm fine.
I said, no, push him up.
You come back tomorrow, right?
Push the motorcycle into my garage and take my truck.
Threw me his keys.
That was the second time I'd met the guy.
Threw me his keys.
I left and I came back for the next day to train.
And we trained there probably six days a week for the next six or seven years until we both opened gyms.
And then we had so we weren't always up there, but he's my coach ever since.
Yeah, that's amazing.
And I think that what jumps out to me again is what I touched on earlier,
which is when you're a martial art, especially in the years that we began,
obviously you ended up eons ahead of where I ever got to, but you do a style,
you end up being successful in that style, but then you go somewhere else and you have
your ass handed to you and you have one of two choices then either don't go back to that place
or swallow your pride, realize you're a white belt again and then start down that road.
Yeah, right.
And one of the things John did was really great about was he's like, look,
I'm just going to add to what you have.
So, again, watching a lot of the build up in some of the later UFCs when they started doing
all the behind the scenes and the training footage, you saw you and John training and
obviously it was pretty brutal, like you said.
So obviously the physical conditioning side was very hard.
What about the level of contact?
Were you guys hitting hard back then too?
Well, I mean, I think John was a lot, we were a lot better than a lot of MMA gyms because we
all both have experience from martial arts.
I mean, I think, I mean, we got our hard sparring and we got our hard stuff getting here and there,
but it wasn't all the time.
I mean, there was a time for really hard sparring, there's a time to timing training,
there's time to work on stuff.
And I think we had a good balance of that.
I mean, we got after it every once in a while.
He'd see it and see when we started going after him, going hard with each other and
go, okay, if we want to do that, all right, go guys, have fun.
But we had a good balance of going hard and training, remembering that we had a good
balance of, you know, remembering that we're training for things.
Yeah, because I found, again, my very, very brief time I had probably in the closest thing
I've ever been to Fight Club, which was Shootbox opened a gym in LA years ago on Melrose.
And now there was literally just live, every sparring session was, you know,
literally beating the shit out of each other.
And I didn't really learn a lot.
I was going to say that, that's a good, that's a good one.
We're up to, those guys fight to go hard, yeah.
Yeah, so, but what I learned is that I didn't really do very well on technique.
It was more survival and I got good at getting hit.
I mean, definitely increased my tolerance to impact, but I didn't feel technically like
I advanced very much.
Yeah, I mean, I think we did, we always did a good portion of, you know,
training for stuff like techniques, back and forth stuff.
We did a little bit, you know, we always did a little bit of back and forth stuff first.
Some sparring, like shadow sparring.
And then, you know, we'd have a few rounds and get after it a little bit.
But he'll still be happy working on things.
You know, it's like, you know, I thought he did a real good job with that.
John's real good at controlling the sparring and having it, like,
something I see some of these guys, I'm like, man, you really going that hard.
It's like, you're fighting.
I see some guys, I remember back in the day, they're training two days before the fight.
And I'm like, are you guys really going that hard at each other?
I mean, you might want to cool down a little bit.
You don't want to hurt them before the fight.
Yeah, well, exactly.
I mean, I remember getting my nose broken perforated eardrum, you know,
definitely concussions.
No question about that.
You know, and having headaches for days.
And now, yeah, being in that, even though it wasn't at a high level,
seeing the discussion now, I mean, Max Holloway just had the most incredible performance.
And I think that they're on the other side of the spectrum now, where he's
almost only fighting really hard once he's actually in the cage.
Yeah, I mean, for us, we had our, we'd have our time when we go hard.
But I mean, everybody kind of knew what it was sparring.
You know, we're getting ready for this, doing ready.
This guy's got a fight coming up.
I'm not trying to beat up a guy that's got a fight coming up next week.
You know, I'm not trying to hurt him.
I mean, you know, I heard, you know, I come out,
he's going to give me some residual stuff on the fighting ground.
Exactly.
Well, with, you know, with the pit being, you know, forging men and women,
obviously, you know, in fire in that particular facility or with John's training,
one of the titles, one of your chapters that really stuck with me was you quote,
being mentally tough is not a sometimes thing.
And that really resonated with me in my profession.
Like, for example, you know, our crucible, whether it's fire academy,
you know, boot camp in the military, police academy, you know, that's the first step.
And a lot of times if it's run well, it will be really hard to get through that.
But then you have to hold that standard yourself and your employer as well.
Through your entire career, you can't just pick and choose
when something's going to be hard and then be a part timer after that.
Right. That's the one thing I tell you.
Things get really tough.
You're going to do what you consistently do, what you consistently practice.
Like if you if you're tired, you quit, you're going to quit when it's important.
You're not going to all of a sudden turn into being a mentally tough guy.
You can't just turn on for a fight.
Can't just turn on for this.
For me, it's always been it's I've always and I actually reinforced that for myself,
actually, after I retired, because I started doing the long run.
I don't have to do this because of that.
I've already done this. I did everything.
I achieved everything I'm done.
I don't have to go work out.
But it really caught my eye when I was I was actually running with my family.
I'm not running. We're going up stairs in Hawaii.
And my son took off running up the stairs.
And I started to chase.
I started running after him.
And in our race, and I'm passing him.
I'm passing him up and then I pass up and going to make
and I actually across my mind.
Man, should I just let I just and not because I'm because I was trying to be nice to him,
but because I was tired across my mind to let him go and I'm really am I really thinking that?
Like am I because I never questioned myself.
It was never a question.
And then that question of should I should I should I let someone run because I'm tired,
never crossed my mind ever before that.
And that for me was enough to kick my kick me back into like, hey, you got to make this a
habit to not quit or not stop it because I said that before that I used to say that now after that
doing that, I'm like, oh, man, I it really is.
I'm like myself slipped or I'm actually asking myself, should I should I give in because I'm
tired and let him have it or and and for me, that was a big, big moment for me.
Just reinforcing what I feel about, you know, it's not enough.
This isn't it's it's an everyday thing.
It's an all the time thing.
You know, it's not you can't just choose when to be tough.
And I'm not saying like and like there's situations where you're the only one that knows.
I mean, I'm not saying when you have to play like every time you wrestle, it's like it's a gold
medal match.
You know, if you're in a position where you might get hurt and you're thinking, I'll just let him
have it because I want to get hurt right now.
I don't want it's not worth getting hurt over.
That's the difference.
You know, you know, whether you made that decision for that reason or because you were tired
and didn't want to fight for it.
But you're the only one that knows that you made that decision.
You know, you know which one which which one it was.
You can't fool yourself.
You know, which one it was.
So I'm not saying you can't be, you know, smart when you're when you're training and working
out and doing stuff and some things are worth fighting over if you might get hurt doing it.
But you know, I was that way as a kid, too.
Like sometimes when I train and I, you know, I wouldn't give up any just because I got to
fight for it.
I can't stop.
I can't give up anything.
You want to get hurt in training when you really probably shouldn't take it.
It was worth that risk.
But it's a balance as you get older.
But yeah, well, I saw you here.
Some of these guys say, I never tap.
Well, then how do you train after they break your arm?
I don't quite understand.
Isn't it better to say, all right, you got me.
I'm tapping that lesson learned.
Let me see if I can avoid that next time.
But yeah, the tap is there so that you don't get hurt and you can continue training.
Exactly.
I mean, I mean, you know, I'm the last guy to tap to a choke.
But that's that's that's a choice.
Right.
But I think but I anytime you tap into like an arm bar or like an even if it's a neck
crank, sometimes that sometimes guys, it looks like that choke was really he's getting a
neck crank and then tweaking your neck.
Right.
You know, that can be a long time recovery thing where what over what an ego.
Yeah.
OK, I didn't let him I didn't tap my arm.
I didn't tap anyway.
I'm tough.
My arm's not going to work for six months.
You know, that's doesn't make sense.
No, and even in, you know, like the CrossFit world, I coach and I'm a CrossFit athlete
as well as one of those one of the exercise methods I think works well for our community.
But there's that whole tendency to PR, you know, and the same with the deadlift.
Like, you know, if you pull X amount and it's 85 percent of your your max,
brilliant.
But if you hurt yourself on 100 percent, but you get a new number on the board,
what you know, what have you achieved?
Absolutely nothing other than six months of rehab.
Right.
Well, you mentioned cranks and locks.
So, again, up to this point in the story, you're a stand up fighter and then obviously
a wrestler as well.
So tell me about your journey into Jiu Jitsu.
And again, was that humbling when you first started?
Well, you know, Scott Adams is my partner in my gym and he was doing Jiu Jitsu and started
doing Jiu Jitsu. So I started training with him and, you know, we I think the first I
think one of the classes at Beverly Hills Jiu Jitsu place.
And I did one G class and then one without a G with Marco Huas.
So for the first time, the first time doing stuff and then and then I went actually,
I still use I still use that a net crank.
I learned that that day to this day with guys, I get one of Marco Huas's net cranks all the
time. So but yeah, but then I went on to work with I think Mark Layman taught that time
that I did a class we did just cause Mark Layman there, too.
Or he was working at desk maybe.
I think I said I told him, man, I'm notified and you'll see.
And he's like, yeah, sure you are.
Yeah, it was funny.
But then I thought I started working with John Lewis in Vegas.
And he started helping me get ready.
Get ready for that fight and and work with him for a long time.
He's my Jiu Jitsu coach for a fight man.
And I actually really loved doing Jiu Jitsu.
I liked like it.
I mean, it's one of those things where people are surprised.
Like I surprise people a lot of times when I do Jiu Jitsu with them, because for some
reason they think I'm still new to Jiu Jitsu.
Or I started I'm like I started Jiu Jitsu in 97.
That's a more experience than most people on planet Earth.
Yeah, I've been doing it for a long time.
But yeah, it's actually for me, I tell you, it's it's it's fun.
It's fun for me to learn because there's so many things to learn.
Did you have a kind of humility story where you first went in either gi or no gi and,
you know, again, were caught by something like, oh, God, here we go again.
I'm learning. I'm learning from scratch yet again.
Well, that for me, like when I first when I first put a gi on with someone like I was
going with John Lewis, who at the time was fighting 155.
So I was at two point, 199 or 200.
And I was like, I'm going to go with John Lewis.
We'll find more 99 or 200 and just he had that like spider guard and like
just he wanted to sweep me and I'm like this one.
Like, you know, I thought I'd get my hand out.
I was I was at a pretty good pace.
I was really good at base.
And I was he taught me real quick how to do things.
But I were like, I mean, even like that the arm triangle I got caught in from Jeremy Horn.
I honestly, I didn't know he I didn't think he had anything.
And if I thought he had something, I think I would have got out of it.
If I just started squirming right away, I knew what he was trying to do.
I thought he didn't have anything and there's only 10 seconds left.
So I'm like, wow, this way here.
When he just slowly got tighter and tighter.
But yeah, I mean, I think back then there wasn't a lot of good guys out there.
Like, so I think I was one of those guys that are other guys were learning.
So I didn't get as much of that where like you got to step in and everybody's, you know,
slick and you know, all this crazy stuff to you.
So I was and I'm so I was learning.
I got to learn at my own pace.
But I learned pretty quickly.
And they and John Lewis would take me through things quick.
I got taught me a he taught me one thing I did really good.
I did the concentrated on about 80, about 20, 25 percent of the techniques I concentrate on.
Staying in good position.
Getting out, getting out from underneath people, getting back up and and not getting caught in submissions.
So I was trying to learn the basics of all the submissions as fast as I could.
And I kind of perfected a few different moves on my own.
Just I was creative with it.
I just act like I like Scott Adam would mold the knee bar and I use that.
I use that his his technique for doing that.
I'd molded knee bar and everyone thought I was going to the knee bar.
And then halfway through, I just let go and pull my leg out and stand up.
And everyone went, oh, oops.
Oh, I thought I had it.
I thought I had it.
I thought I was countering that.
He's standing up.
Why is he punching me in the face?
Yeah.
So so it was I think a lot of it had to do.
I just had spent a lot of time trying to kind of work on the basic stuff that I needed to stay in control and get back on my feet.
Now, did you feel like there was a kind of race for knowledge back then?
Because just when people were discovering, you know, the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu element,
you know, there must have been a sense of I need to become better than this, at this than than other people before they learn more than me, because it was literally like this.
People almost never heard of it.
And all of a sudden, there was this like tidal wave of Jiu-Jitsu knowledge that people needed to learn.
Right.
And it was like it was.
But at that time, too, we were all trying to figure out how to train it, how to train how to how to train.
How to put them all together, right?
With a gi, without a gi, no gi, with a gi.
How to just how do you train sparring and wrestling and Jiu-Jitsu together?
And how do you mix it together?
How do you how to get ready for a fight?
You know, it was a big learning curve back then.
And everyone.
And I think the people that consistently did better were the guys that were were really trying to learn and get outside.
So you got some of those guys that stuck in like, oh, my style is better.
I'm just going to stay with my style and I'm going to do my style.
And those guys kind of slipped, started slowly slipping off.
You know, they if you weren't ready, if you weren't ready to evolve and improve,
you're going to get passed up really quickly back then.
Yeah.
Well, it's something that I'm getting from reading your story as well is that Muhammad Ali is famous
for quoting that he hated training, you know, but obviously, you know, he was an incredible champion,
but it was the time in the ring, I think, that he really enjoyed.
Were you kind of the opposite where you almost enjoyed the journey and the training more than
chasing a belt or a title?
Yeah, I really was.
I mean, I really love every part of it.
I like to I like training.
I like I'm getting up every day.
I like trying to figure out how to beat somebody.
I like trying to pick someone apart, trying to
figure out and trying to figure out better ways of getting out of things.
I learned a long time ago.
Like I see watch guys train something and teach something.
And they they don't always show everything that they do different.
Like you see someone like a good example.
I saw I watched Jake Shields.
There's a while ago he's gotten he teaches it now.
But that that when we were on Ultimate Fighter, he came in and was showing his his guillotine.
And I'm like, and he has a great guillotine finishes, guys.
He's just a good, good job with it.
And I'm like, what?
He's teaching it the same way everybody else teaches it.
He's not doing anything.
He's not teaching anything different.
And I was looking at him.
But what is he doing different that makes it work different?
And then, oh, OK, that's what he's doing.
He's got his hip.
OK, I see that now that so I got used to looking for that.
And I actually learned that after my after my the first Ultimate Fighter, I was coaching,
coaching the guys and I showed them a move that works for me all the time.
I get most of the time, most probably 85 percent of the time I use it.
I'd be able to get up and get I get to position I like.
And it wasn't working for them.
They just couldn't get it.
They couldn't get it at all.
I'm like, man, these guys are pretty good.
And what they do, I was talking to one of them was for I'm the one going for them.
I can't do that again.
What is he doing wrong?
Why isn't he getting this?
I'm like, oh, he has to push the push the arm first.
And then he said, get that get that little momentum going this way first and then do
with the move for to work because I didn't really even notice I was doing that.
It was just I was natural for me to do it.
So it was natural for me to pop the person so to load load the hips a little bit so I
could have the ability to make that move work.
And he started doing oh, and got it and got it and started working.
I started working for him.
So I'm like, oh, so I mean, I think that first ultimate fighter really helped me as a coach
learn to teach better because, you know, no one had to do things one thing, no one had
to teach it to another.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, another thing that you talk about a little bit in the book is your love of chess
when you were younger.
And people that just know you as the as the literally the man in the octagon probably
don't understand the analytical side of your fight philosophy.
So how do you know how much time do you take on actually analyzing an opponent before you
fight them?
Well, I tried it.
I tried to go through I go through the films and try to figure out when they were available.
Back then, sometimes it was hard to get films on guys.
But the more film I have, the more time I always just say, the more time I get to spar
with you, the better chance I have against you.
I'll get better against you every time we spar.
You know, every time we train together, I'll get better because I know how to I can I can
I know what kind of moves you do.
I know what things you try.
I'll start picking apart how you set up things and how you react to things.
And if I can figure out how you react to things, I can figure out how to how to land something.
So I actually really like that part of it, like trying to figure out what kind of watch
and do my homework.
Well, I know you've talked about, you know, wishing you could have had another fight or
rampage if you could like if you could go back and talk to young Chuck, what would you
tell him to do differently to be able to beat that man?
You know, I think I had some stuff figured out for that, but I just it's one of those
things that I need to I need to mix some stuff up with him a little more like and, you know,
I do a little more wrestling with him.
I think at that point, I started when I started getting away from, you know, I started getting
away from that.
I would go just going out and striking with guys.
And I got away with some of the stuff I got away with.
I mean, I got caught that got that fight the last fight.
I thought before that, I thought I should have had him too.
But, you know, it's one of those things that going back, I think I think I should I should
have done a little more keeping him off palettes, not letting him know it's he can just sit
there and strike with me.
And I think I've given that advice to a lot of people over the years now, as I you know,
because I got away from, you know, just the one of the things that made me great in the
beginning is I could fight anywhere and I and I could control where the fight was.
And I kept keep you guessing what I want to do, whether I want to take you down or if I
want to stay up with you.
And when I got away from that, it made it a lot easier and easier fight for people, you
know, when you can they know you're not know what you're going to do, they know what you're
going to do.
Maybe a little easier.
Now, you obviously piqued to the point where, you know, you were a champion for years.
What was your mindset that kept you being able to focus on training when you were winning?
Well, I think a lot of a lot of that had to do with I just I mean, part of it has to do
with I think as a as a fighter or as is it's more about the improving and the getting better.
And I mean, the actual winning of titles and winning of things last what couple of days a
week, you know, getting excited.
It doesn't last maybe a month.
I don't know.
I can't even remember how long I was excited about it as far as I was more excited about
who am I fighting next?
When am I going to fight next?
When am I going to be ready next?
You know, and and I think that was always the the driving force was that I is just the
improvement and getting better and becoming a better fighter and and chasing that who's
next who's next to prove I'm the best.
Yeah.
Well, conversely, then, so what about when you started having losses, you know, mentally,
what was that like for you, you know, being on the top and now having each time to go
back and figure out how to beat the next person?
You know, it's one of those things.
I mean, looking back, you know, it was it was tough, you know, it's one of the things,
but it's always like I always felt like when I was done, I always felt like I always felt
like I I should have won that fight.
I should have I know mistakes.
I mean, I know what I did wrong and to get back and to work on it and just get out there
and do it.
You know, you know, and I think I waited too long to actually try to change the way I was
fighting because I kind of got I did feel like I got away from from mixing up everything
and I should have been, you know, mixing my wrestling more with my striking and doing
that some of that stuff earlier.
And I think it might have made a difference, you know, but in the longevity of fighting.
But, you know, I fought till I was 40.
So, I mean, I think it's funny.
I was watching the fight laws quite a while ago now, but they're talking about one of
the guys I knew and he was 31 and I was talking about him being an aging fighter, being way
past he should have retired a long time ago.
You know, he's retired.
He's getting too old now.
He was 31.
You know, I was like, OK, then you got people like Randy.
That is I won my first title at 35.
So, you know, I hung in there quite a bit, quite a while.
And, you know, maybe maybe the longer and I should have.
But, you know, I was still enjoying it.
And I was in one thing if I was going out there and get beat up and then knocked out.
But I always felt like I was winning the fight and I got caught and got knocked out.
Like I can fix that.
And, you know, it is what it is.
It's tough.
But I mean, I always had that mindset.
It's like I can I can fix this and I can win.
I can beat I can get back.
Let me give me another chance.
I mean, right after I'm in the back room.
Yeah, I can do this again.
Can I have another shot at this?
Give me one more.
Let me try again.
Yeah, which again shows that you were on that journey as opposed to
just being focused on that that win or that title.
OK, so then as far as transitioning out, my community, whether it's first responders,
whether it's military, that can sometimes be a tough transition.
We've identified for 10, 20, 30 years as a soldier, a police officer, a firefighter.
And for some of those men and women, when they when they move on,
when they retire, when they get hurt, whatever happens,
that's a struggle mentally, you know, identity wise.
What was your transition out of professional MMA like for you?
Oh, well, you know, it's a tough thing, man.
The thing I try to tell people all the time is like,
you know, you go from having something you're working for, chasing, going after,
you have a reason to, you know, do things for 30 years.
You know, I've been fought.
I fought for 20, you know, been did wrestling, football, whatever it was.
I had something coming up all the time, right.
And and and then all of a sudden you don't.
So for me, it was one of those things I didn't have that I always had that thing at the top
pushing me or controlling me or encouraging me to, you know, make sure I stay on my workout,
stay doing this.
So I had I had a driving purpose, right.
You had that purpose and now it's that's gone.
And, you know, I think I think a lot of a lot of professions, a lot of different things,
it's the same same thing that you don't have something.
There's not a reason you have to do this, especially in, you know, first responder type
things or military.
You have a reason to stay in shape, a reason to, you know, to work out a reason to go do
this or go do that or not do this or not do that.
And and that reason is not there anymore.
Now, you know, I was blessed.
I had a lot of opportunities, a lot of things to do.
But also, it's a little it's kind of weird position to be in when you don't have anything.
Was acting kind of the the other element, the thing that the next tribe, if you like,
next community that you found yourself in that then allowed you to to focus on the
energy that's helping me?
Yes, that's one of those things, you know, that allows me to to try to get better at
something.
You know, I want I don't want to I don't want to just do it to the cameos and stuff
was fine when I was doing when I was fighting and stuff.
But now I want to get better at it and keep getting better.
And I feel like I am and keep improving every time I go out and and do it.
So, yeah, it gives me something that's something to shoot for, something to work at.
And it allows me to stay in the stay in public and so I'm trying to make, you know, help
people out and do some good things for people.
Yeah.
Well, speaking of which, so we talked before the show, you know, tell me about some of
the work you're doing with some of these veteran nonprofits.
We had merging vets and players.
Jake Glazer got that got that started and then and working with those guys has been
great.
You know, E3, guys, E3 ranch in Kansas and doing some stuff with them, maybe helping
some military guys.
Jared Allen's home, so only warriors in Arizona.
I've worked with them for a long time.
Great guy.
Great organization, helping guys out.
And I like I like doing things out of the vets and, you know, all the first responders,
the guys, you know, put their lives on the line for us and to allow us to have the, you
know, have our rights and our lives.
You know, I have a peaceful society, mostly peaceful, I guess.
But yeah.
Beautiful.
Well, one more area before we transition some closing questions so I can let you go.
In a podcast, I listened to you recently on you'd mentioned about getting stem cell
therapy.
So now it's been a little bit more time.
What is your, you know, how did it impact you?
Did you have success in getting stem cell therapy?
Did you have success with it?
Oh, I had a lot of success.
I had a PCL tear that I never got fixed and that would really help with my, actually,
my both my shoulders are just wearing tears beat up pretty bad.
That mean my my shoulder doctor said, you know, it looked like I played in the NFL for
15 years.
My shoulders, but but I wasn't able to put my jacket on without someone helping me before
I went down there and got and then for that for that for the stem cells for that.
I can tell you that that bioxcellerator really, really hooked me up and they did a great job
and helped me and then you know, those guys are great.
If you can make it down to Columbia, the bioxcellerator is amazing.
Those guys did a great job and then it's very professional down there.
They do really treat you good and take care of your take care of stuff.
Beautiful.
Now that's good to hear because you hear people trying it a lot, but you know, it's still
somewhat new.
So to hear people having results, I think is very encouraging.
Yeah, you know, I talked to someone, one of Tony Robbins guys that does it kind of vets
out stem cell stuff for him, I think he told but he told me that I asked him, how do I
tell someone if it works?
I know from my shoulders, it did wonders.
I don't know that works.
And I PCL tell my knee I did really gave me really helped.
But but like for other things, I don't I mean, I can't I don't know if it works for this
or for that for other things.
So I told I asked him, how do I have what I say to people because people call me text
me, hey, well, if it works that good, I'm going to I'm going to do it.
But it's really hard on me.
It's a really hard month.
I can get the money together, but it's it's going to it's rough.
I just don't want to do it.
It's not it's not worth it.
I actually tell you there's no guarantees for number one, number two.
But he said he said what he said was try PRP first.
And if you have any success with PRP PRP like stem cells like PRP on steroids.
So so that was I thought that was a good way that for people that are trying to figure
out if they want to do it or not.
It's a cheaper way to try it out and and and see if if it'll have if they think it might
have some some lasting effect.
Beautiful.
Well, just as you mentioned Tony Robbins, you told a very interesting story about how
he was brought in.
Was it John that brought him in to help you after your first loss?
Is that correct?
No, after I had first having two losses in a row.
Okay.
So tell me what you know what he did with you and then and then if you still continue
to practice that to this day.
You know, I think the thing that he did it's hard to explain to stuff he does, but he does
a lot of great stuff.
But he's great great people works with people.
I mean, one of the things that he did with me was he just kind of got me back to realizing
I mean realizing that you know, it wasn't a big deal.
You know, it wasn't it was and go out and go back to having going out and having fun
because that's the way that's what I always did.
That made me great at fighting as I it was always fun for me.
I wasn't you know, going to go out and be excited after you turn around.
I was kind of kind of all over the place a little bit and like, oh man, I'm sure I'd
be doing this anymore.
And you know, I think the biggest thing he did for me was a guided meditation and he
got me go through, you know, the five best moments of my life in that guy.
Which did that didn't have me say one to him.
You know, the best moments of your life, basically the top five and at the end of five, he's
on a tummy not one of those had anything to do with fighting did it.
So, you know what?
No, not one.
And he said, well, then quit worrying about it and go out and have some fun.
Yep.
All right.
That's the best advice I ever had and that was the last fight I won before that.
So, yeah, he came into my room that night before that fight.
So, we were in a friendly civil fight.
Beautiful.
Now with them, I know in the book you talked about not drinking at all when you were younger.
It's funny because I this can sound weird to American ears, but I drank till I was 16
because in England, you know, it's kind of a little more socially acceptable to drink
with, you know, meals and stuff when you're younger.
But then I had a, let's just say a bad, you know, over drinking accidental episode and
I didn't drink through most of the years where my friends started drinking.
But then you hinted in other interviews about, you know, towards the end of your career,
you did find yourself drinking.
So, kind of what was that that mental journey for you where you found yourself kind of off
the path and then how did you pull yourself back on to where you are today?
You know, I think, yeah, I mean, I think once I retired and the breaks were off, you know,
I just was really, I just decided I wasn't, I didn't think I was doing anything wrong,
but I'd go out and drink, I'd party and I didn't have a reason not to.
So, it wasn't like before I was out of the fight coming up, I had to go train with somebody,
I had people I was working out with, I had people I had people to answer to, I had people
that I was, you know, that I felt like I owed to be there for them.
And, you know, when I was retired, I didn't have anything else, it was really easy to
get going and it started, you know, it didn't last long, but that's where I was drinking
three or four times a week and then it started going and, you know, and actually one night
I was, long story, hard to explain, but I ended up, I was supposed to meet up with my
now wife and ended up just not being able to figure out how to, so drunk, I didn't figure
out how to get, like call up to her room from the from the keypad in front of her apartment
and I was like, you know, and then got myself out of that with her, but decided not to drink
for a year and took off drinking for a whole year and just then I just kind of now got
to back to drinking when I'm here and there when I want to, you know, not a big deal anymore,
but I just kind of needed that wake up call, you know, to not, you know, you know, you're
free, you don't have to have any responsibilities, but you might want to stand a little more
controlled than that, but I think that was part of the thing of just having everything
released, like, you know, I didn't have to be back in the gym, I didn't have to do, you
know, this or that, you know, it was just, oh, I'm going to have some fun, you know,
I deserve it, I earned it, you know, well, at some point you've got to get back to doing
something else or you know, get motivated another way.
Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that because I think it's very, very, very important and
parallel to many of our journeys.
I mean, I can say the same thing.
I never drank to get, you know, shit-faced for lack of a better word, but I found what
the frequency of my alcohol consumption post-retirement, you know, went up and it really reminds me
of your story chasing your son up the stairs.
It's like you have to monitor yourself and when you get that warning sign, be able to
draw it back in before it goes too far and then you're way too, you know, you've got
a lot of work then to get yourself back from there.
Yeah, that's exactly.
Brilliant, all right, well, I want to be mindful of your time.
So I want to switch to some closing questions so I can let you go, especially on today's
big day where Connor and Dustin are fighting.
So thank you again for doing the interview on that day.
So the first question I'd love to ask, you have a biography, it's named Iceman, which
I read and is phenomenal to everyone listening out there.
I urge you to read that to truly get the full story.
Are there any other books that you love to recommend to people?
It can be related to what we've discussed today or something completely different.
Yeah, I've been reading the Bible a lot more lately, but other than that, you know.
Yeah, no problem.
The Bible's a great answer.
We'll stick with that.
All right, so then the next question I'd like to ask is a movie or a documentary that you
recommend.
Now before we get to the answer, so you had Cage Fighter come out last year, so I want
to make people aware of that and then also the 30 for 30 Chuck and Tito I thought was
an incredible documentary as well.
Yeah, those guys did a great job of covering a lot of complex issues in a short period
of time as best they could.
I mean, I thought it came across really well.
All right, next question.
Is there a person you'd recommend to come on this podcast to talk to the first responders,
military and associated professionals of the world as a guest?
I mean, I knew this guy.
Jared Allen would be great.
Get him on there.
He's a good dude.
Good for people.
Adam Lemos, another one, a friend of mine, this guy from E3.
Those guys are not only supporters but helping vets quite a bit.
So they'd be good guys to talk to.
Perfect.
Thank you so much.
All right, then the last question before we make sure everyone knows where to find you
online.
What do you do to decompress these days?
I still, to be honest, to decompress, I still hit the bag, do jiu-jitsu, hit the bag, roll
a spar, anything I have to do with martial arts.
That's my happy place where I get the time I can shut my mind down and just think about
that.
Love it.
All right, well then, very last question then.
If people want to reach out to you, find you, follow you online, where are the best places
these days?
It's at Chuck Liddell on most of the social media like Twitter or Instagram.
I think we're going to get chuckliddell.com running up and running again soon.
But it's kind of, we haven't been doing that for a while.
But we're going to get running again soon because I got some, a few things coming up.
I'm going to probably start a podcast sometime later this year.
And we also have a, I'm going to put a show out, No Trucks Given, which is going to be
more like a, it's kind of like a travel show, but just me doing what I like to do, things
I like to do and showing you the area I'm at, where I'm doing it.
So it should be pretty interesting.
It should be some fun stuff.
Beautiful.
All right, well, Chuck, I want to say thank you so much for you to take time out of your
day, especially today, which is a big fight day and obviously your family in the background.
So I'm taking you from them too.
I truly, truly appreciate you taking the time to speak to the audience today.
So thank you so much.
Yeah, my pleasure, man.
Thank you.