1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,320
This episode is sponsored by 511 Tactical, a company that I've used for around 14 years now and continue to use to this day.

2
00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:13,800
And they are offering you, the audience, a 15% discount. Not on one purchase, but continuously.

3
00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:15,800
And I'll give you that code in just a moment.

4
00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:20,720
But I want to do a product showcase on their new Atlas sneakers and boots.

5
00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:25,920
So I'm a big believer in the fact that footwear can either improve our health or break down our health.

6
00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,800
And the Atlas sneaker actually has a new foam system that disperses the body weight.

7
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:35,640
Whether just the body weight, whether it's a vest and a gun, whether it's EMS bags being carried.

8
00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:41,560
And on top of that, they're lightweight despite having the same protection that's required in the tactical space.

9
00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:46,400
So I have a pair of Atlas sneakers myself and I can attest they're extremely comfortable.

10
00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:52,440
On top of footwear, of course, 511 offers a gamut of uniforms and equipment.

11
00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,840
Whether it's plate carriers, backpacks, flashlights, you name it, they have it.

12
00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:03,400
All you have to do is go to 511tactical.com and use the code SHIELD15.

13
00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:11,480
That's S-H-I-E-L-D-1-5 at 511tactical.com and you will save every time you purchase.

14
00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,800
And to learn more about the company 511 Tactical,

15
00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:22,440
you can listen to episode 338 of the Behind the Shield podcast with the CEO, Francisco Morales.

16
00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:27,200
This episode is brought to you by Thorn, the industry leader in nutritional solutions.

17
00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:35,160
Now Thorn is actually trusted by eight US national teams and championship teams in the NFL, NBA and Major League,

18
00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:40,960
as well as recently becoming the official sports performance nutrition partner of the UFC.

19
00:01:40,960 --> 00:01:47,920
So when it comes to supplements, the tactical athlete space and the athletic space need two things.

20
00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:52,320
We need efficacy, meaning the products do what they say they're going to do on the label.

21
00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:58,920
And then we need to trust the fact that we are not going to fail either athletic drug tests or work related drug tests.

22
00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:07,160
Now, Thorn has actually been around since the 1980s where they were used by physicians and hospitals for nutritional supplements for the patients.

23
00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:14,760
They were so successful that athletic teams and even special operations teams reached out to them and they started supplying them as well.

24
00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,280
Very recently, they actually opened their doors to the general public.

25
00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:26,160
Now, what sets Thorn apart as they manufacture their own products in a state of the art NSF certified facility in South Carolina.

26
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:34,240
They use only the purest possible ingredients formulated with no stearates or arbitrary fillers in the cleanest manufacturing process.

27
00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,560
Most of you listening come from a profession where it can take its toll physically and mentally,

28
00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:44,160
and many of us are not able to bolster our nutrition purely with the food that we eat.

29
00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,640
And that's where supplementation comes in.

30
00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:53,320
So if you're ready to maximize your health and performance, visit thorn.com, T-H-O-R-N-E dot com.

31
00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:58,240
Take a short product quiz to be paired up with the perfect health and fitness supplements.

32
00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:08,640
And for you, the audience, if you use the code BTS10, behind the shield 10, BTS10, you will get 10% off your first order.

33
00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:14,360
And if you want to learn even more about Thorn, go to episode 323 of Behind the Shield podcast

34
00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:20,240
and you will hear my interview with Wes Barnett and Joel Totoro from Thorn.

35
00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,160
This episode is brought to you by GovX.

36
00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,800
And as you know, I only have companies on here that I truly use and believe in myself.

37
00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,400
And GovX is a complete no brainer.

38
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:36,280
If you are a member of fire, police, EMS, corrections, military, and even hospital setting doctors and nurses,

39
00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:44,120
you qualify for the free membership to GovX, which marries us with discounts from so many companies that you probably already use.

40
00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:49,680
And on top of that, it's not just for active duty, but also retirees, veterans and volunteers.

41
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:54,640
So for our professions, having to purchase so much of our equipment, every single dollar counts.

42
00:03:54,640 --> 00:04:01,400
And understanding that GovX has reached out to you, the Behind the Shield podcast audience to offer you an additional saving.

43
00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:11,560
On your first purchase of $50 or more, if you use the code SHIELD, S-H-I-E-L-D, they will give you an additional $15 off your first purchase.

44
00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,520
And another layer of GovX is GovX gives back.

45
00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:22,320
Every month they're going to sell a different patch and the proceeds from that patch goes to a charity that supports either first responders or military.

46
00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:32,800
So as I mentioned before, go to GovX.com, G-O-V-X.com, register for your free membership and save every single time you purchase.

47
00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,840
Welcome to episode 411 of Behind the Shield podcast.

48
00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:42,400
As always, my name is James Gearing and this week is my absolute honor to welcome on the show Chuck Liddell.

49
00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:49,880
Now, Chuck is obviously a legend in the UFC, but also has a very powerful life story from the mentorship from his grandfather,

50
00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:56,880
overcoming physical ailments as a young boy, bullying, his journey through martial arts and so much more.

51
00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,440
So firstly, it was an absolute honor to talk to him.

52
00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:05,280
He actually did this conversation on fight night on the day that McGregor and Poirier fought.

53
00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:09,400
So that in itself was amazing, but also he did it in the middle of his workday.

54
00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:18,160
So there is a little bit of activity in the background, some kids, some dogs, some squeaky chairs, but it doesn't detract at all from the incredible conversation.

55
00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:23,640
Before we get to that interview, as I say every week, please just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this on,

56
00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,800
subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

57
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:31,800
Every five star rating elevates this podcast, making it easier for others to find.

58
00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,080
And this is a free library for you, Planet Earth.

59
00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:43,440
So all I ask in return is you help share these incredible men and women's stories so I can get them to everyone else who needs to hear them.

60
00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:48,360
So with that being said, I introduce to you Chuck Liddell. Enjoy.

61
00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:08,800
Chuck, I want to start by saying thank you.

62
00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:13,080
Thank you so much for coming on the show and thank you to Bill Grundler for connecting us as well.

63
00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,560
So welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

64
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,400
Thank you for having me. Bill's been a friend of mine for a long time.

65
00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,000
I wrestled with him in college, so it's been a while.

66
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:28,440
Yeah, well, as we were saying before we started recording, Bill definitely dropped some truth bombs on my community that needed to be heard.

67
00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:34,840
So I'd say that was one of the more needed to be heard episodes that I've done so far.

68
00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:41,760
He's fantastic. So my opening question is always where on planet Earth are we finding you today?

69
00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,240
I'm in Calabasas, California.

70
00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,080
Beautiful. All right. Well, I love to start at the absolute beginning.

71
00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:55,240
So tell me where you were actually born and then tell me about your family dynamic, what your parents did and how many siblings.

72
00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,800
Born and raised in Santa Barbara.

73
00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,960
It was an interesting dynamic, I guess.

74
00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,720
I mean, when I was really young, my father left and I was raised by my mother.

75
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:12,880
And my we moved in with, you know, we didn't make a lot of money.

76
00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,680
We didn't work for so we had we moved in with my grandparents.

77
00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,600
And so it was actually my grandparents and my great grandmother.

78
00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,520
So we had my great grandmother was in one room.

79
00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,160
My grandma, grandpa were in one room. Me and my two brothers are in one room.

80
00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,840
My mom and my sister were in one room.

81
00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:36,680
So that comes in, two brothers, two young younger brothers and an older sister.

82
00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:42,200
Beautiful. I know, like actually, funnily enough, quite a few high level athletes.

83
00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,240
You had some physical issues when you were young.

84
00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:45,800
So tell me about those.

85
00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:52,560
Yeah, well, I had I had an issue with when they wanted me to put me in those leg braces.

86
00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:58,760
You know, my mom, you know, like so kind of like that four scalp leg braces, you know, you see in the show.

87
00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,760
And we didn't have the money for it and didn't do it.

88
00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:06,440
But they said they had a bunch of exercises they gave my mom to put me through where I was really little.

89
00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:10,680
I had to help me keep my knees together.

90
00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,680
I forget exactly what it was called.

91
00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,440
She helped me with that for my book, what I did.

92
00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:27,680
So, but yeah, it you know, I think part of that helped me get started early being having to go through a routine of exercises where she was, you know, kind of

93
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:32,080
move me through it and going through that pain and and having a result that worked.

94
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,440
You know, I think that started me early with that.

95
00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:36,800
Yeah, no, absolutely.

96
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:41,640
And so you talk as well in the book about, you know, the the parental figures in your family.

97
00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,280
Obviously, your mom was a single mother, but you had pops as well.

98
00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:52,600
And I think for this community, the audience that's listening with military and first responders, his story is actually very powerful from what he did in his career.

99
00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:57,920
So if you wouldn't mind, tell me who pops was and how he was through your eyes.

100
00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:06,160
Well, you know, my grandfather was he, you know, he stepped in to be to be my father figure.

101
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:12,120
And, you know, he had, you know, I mean, he he kind of he raised me his way.

102
00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:17,040
You know, he he is an old school guy from Brooklyn.

103
00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,800
Tough guy there. He's getting in trouble.

104
00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:23,720
But then he went into the military for the war.

105
00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:33,560
And then when he got out, he stayed in Santa Barbara and eventually became a deputy sheriff and then the sheriff's coroner.

106
00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:47,960
And yeah, he's a big influence on my life as far as, you know, teaching me, teaching me how to fight, teaching me how to be a man, really, you know, teaching me how, you know, he was one of those guys.

107
00:09:47,960 --> 00:10:00,200
And I like, I know my wife has to be like, you know, about because I always say one of my biggest regrets is he never saw me finish my career.

108
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:05,240
He saw me start. He saw me fight once kickboxing.

109
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,160
And, you know, she's all he must have been proud of that night.

110
00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,240
He knocked the guy out or whatever. And I said, oh, he would have been proud of me.

111
00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:16,200
I got knocked out in the first round because he knows I gave it everything I got.

112
00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:24,080
So, you know, for me, you know, he really put that in me where a couple of things.

113
00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:25,760
And I'm trying to figure out how he taught it to me.

114
00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,640
And I want to give it to my kids because I was never afraid of anyone growing up.

115
00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,560
Like, I wasn't afraid of him. I'm not never afraid of anybody.

116
00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:40,320
Amen. Just because it's not like it's kind of hard to explain.

117
00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:45,080
But I guess my feeling is you can be in a fight and defense will fight.

118
00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,120
You know, if you do something that requires me to step to you or fight you,

119
00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,800
I'm going to fight you no matter if I think you're going to beat me up or I think you're not.

120
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,160
I think you have no chance in hell. Right.

121
00:10:54,160 --> 00:11:01,720
So for me, having that feeling where you can walk into any situation where you don't have that fear involved,

122
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:08,080
you know, and you don't have that involved in the equation, you can make better judgments,

123
00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,280
you make better decisions. And I want to pass that on to my kids.

124
00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:22,720
And I'm still trying to figure out how he actually got me to feel that confident and that comfortable with me in that way.

125
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:29,680
Yeah. Well, did he put you in, you know, uncomfortable situations as far as physically and that kind of thing when you were young

126
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:36,680
to kind of almost like show you that there wasn't anything to be scared of from being in that discomfort?

127
00:11:36,680 --> 00:11:39,000
You know, I think there was a little bit of that.

128
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,400
You know, I mean, my brother, we get in arguments and start bashing up on it,

129
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,360
so I tell us to go beat each other up until we got tired.

130
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,640
And I didn't want to, you know, panting.

131
00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:56,280
I don't want to. You know, I know you guys are done. Keep going.

132
00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:04,360
You know, but but yeah, a lot of it more of his stuff was positive.

133
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,840
And I never wanted to disappoint him.

134
00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:12,240
You know, like he was always always there for me, always did everything, helped me with everything, was always there for me.

135
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:18,760
So I never wanted to disappoint him. So now with him being a police officer as well,

136
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:23,960
when I look back at my career, I've been a martial artist most of my life, always prefaces.

137
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,480
I've been a punching bag for some great fighters in my life.

138
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,360
I've never been a competitive martial artist as far as professionally.

139
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:37,280
However, I found, especially looking back at my younger years, I was terrified when someone tried to fight me face to face,

140
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,960
but I was fearless if it was protecting someone else, if that makes sense.

141
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,720
So did you notice that element when you were younger?

142
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:51,600
I don't think I was never afraid of anything, but I would, you know, I actually think it's pretty funny.

143
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,080
You say something like that. My son, I was like a little nervous about that.

144
00:12:55,080 --> 00:13:00,320
I wasn't getting stuff across my side because he's letting kids take stuff from him and they push him.

145
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,800
They're going to take something from him and they wouldn't do anything about it.

146
00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,520
And I was like, man, is he scared of these kids? I got to work on this. I got to do this.

147
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:13,120
And then I, we were at my little, my daughter had a birthday party.

148
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,800
She's in kindergarten, I think, at the time. And we brought him with us to school.

149
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:22,880
And some two boys, they're head taller than my son, both of them, are hitting their balloons.

150
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,360
She turned around, like, hey, stop hitting my balloons. And then he stands there.

151
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,440
And then the kids, they hit it again. He got right up in their face.

152
00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:35,560
Put it, look, just like my grandfather to chin out right in their face.

153
00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:39,200
Hey, don't touch my sister's balloons. And push the kids back.

154
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,160
And then like, you know, kids are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know.

155
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:46,800
And I saw him do that again for her. Like, so I, oh, OK, he just doesn't care.

156
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,160
They're taking this stuff. They want it. They can have it.

157
00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,320
He's he's just really he's a sweet kid. He's really nice.

158
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,560
So it's just being sweet. He's not.

159
00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:59,480
But if they saw anyone does anything to his sister, he's right in there, right in there.

160
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,320
Like, what are you doing?

161
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,640
You know, I got I got this.

162
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:08,040
And so, you know, but that's kind of I like seeing that.

163
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:12,440
So I know he's he's not he's not that he's not not being afraid.

164
00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:15,000
So that's that's good. Yeah, absolutely.

165
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,000
Well, what about your journey into martial arts? Let's talk about that.

166
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,560
Was that following, you know, like, George and Pierre, for example, who,

167
00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,520
you know, was bullied and that was his kind of way through?

168
00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,960
Or did you just find a school and follow it that way?

169
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,040
No, I I was bullied when I was younger, like

170
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,080
like when I was really young, kindergarten age, and I was again

171
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,280
getting beat up to my lunch, my lunch money, money taken from me,

172
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,560
wresting away from me and stuff.

173
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,400
And actually, the principal

174
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,800
would call up my mom and said, because he asked me, why don't you fight back?

175
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,640
You know, this old days, the day back in the back.

176
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,360
Or what is that early eighties, seventies, late seventies?

177
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,200
So he's like, why don't you fight back?

178
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,080
And my mom said, I can't fight.

179
00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,280
And so they

180
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,760
they told my my mom and my mom come in and she said,

181
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,080
hey, look, I like what you're trying to do with this non-violence thing,

182
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,080
but you've got to let this kid defend himself because I can't watch him

183
00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,160
all the time and the kids are he's getting beat up all the time.

184
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,560
And so she said, OK, as you took me to my grandfather,

185
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,760
I had him start from teaching me how to throw some punches and stuff.

186
00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,680
And and then, you know, I told me,

187
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,000
it's OK, don't start the fight, but you can finish it.

188
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,200
You know, you can fight if they attack you, you can fight.

189
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,000
And I started defending myself and people started leaving me alone.

190
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:44,560
You know, and as they move forward, I got about when I was about 10, I really

191
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,360
had a man when I started watching Kung Fu Theater

192
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:49,840
and they had martial arts

193
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,160
demonstrations in between, like a double feature.

194
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,200
They have these demonstrations on there.

195
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,160
And I was so amazed by that, you know, those those

196
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,600
demonstrations. And I thought, you know, hey, I'm going to go join this

197
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,800
or join karate and I'm going to learn a few

198
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,680
I'm going to learn some secret moves and I'm going to be like

199
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,800
be a ninja. You know, I'm going to be a ninja.

200
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,520
I'm going to be a ninja, you know, I'm going to be a super fighter.

201
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:22,720
And, you know, and I actually so I kept after my mom,

202
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,040
I was trying to learn how to books, you know, and stuff.

203
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,200
And I can go after my mom and go and go.

204
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:28,760
She finally said, OK, I'll take you.

205
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,080
I'll get you into karate class.

206
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,200
So we went looking for a place and we actually went to a place.

207
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,720
It was funny that the Kempo place we went to, we went to a Kempo place

208
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,000
three times and it was the third time it was an open room was supposed to be.

209
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,760
And I was, I don't know if we're going to go here.

210
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,360
And we were walking home and we saw the Koi Kon Karate Dojo

211
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,440
Dojo was on the way home on the watch the wall and walk home.

212
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,200
And, oh, well, we checked this place out.

213
00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,320
I walked in and it was really

214
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,840
lucky that I that I got in that place, because it was the perfect place for me.

215
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,200
They because I was a real ADD kid.

216
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,960
So I was really kind of hard to keep my attention.

217
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,520
But I really, really wanted to be a martial artist.

218
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,440
I wanted to learn karate.

219
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:20,640
And when I went in there, there's an old, old, old school teaching, you know,

220
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,440
like they show you a reverse punch and tell you to go work.

221
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,280
OK, do that 500 times on each side and then we'll come back and check.

222
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,960
So you're sitting there going, OK, I got this punch 500 times on each side.

223
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,000
OK. And then they come back and they.

224
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,200
But you had to get better at it, so they give you the next move.

225
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:39,240
And I wanted the next move.

226
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,120
I wanted them the next move.

227
00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:43,840
And they had a high attrition rate at three to six months,

228
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,520
because I think that's when people figure out that there's

229
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,200
there's no magic to this.

230
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:53,560
You're not going to get a magic, but it's just hard work and knowledge and learning.

231
00:17:54,240 --> 00:18:00,040
And and for me, the difference for me was I saw that as weight.

232
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,560
You mean, if I keep working hard, if I work hard, as I can pass that guy,

233
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,760
I can get better than those guys over there.

234
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,040
And those guys are there doing that stuff.

235
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:08,960
I want to be able to do. I can get past them.

236
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,440
If I can. The harder I work, the faster I get past them.

237
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,800
Oh, perfect.

238
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,480
And I'll be out. I was there every day all the time.

239
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,320
I mean, once I started, I was there.

240
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:21,160
It was like an open.

241
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,440
I think the gym was open from 10 to eight.

242
00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:26,560
You come as much or as little as you want, you know,

243
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,440
four days a week and then Saturdays were open for four hours.

244
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,040
And I'd be there every day.

245
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,240
I mean, every time I could, anytime I could be there.

246
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,760
I guess I go after I mean, I go after wrestling practice.

247
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,120
I get ready. If I had to have a rest practice, I go.

248
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,440
I go to the gym, go to karate, you know, football games.

249
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,440
I there's time after the football game, I go to karate.

250
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,240
You know, it didn't matter.

251
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,360
If I had if I could get there, I get there.

252
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:56,800
And so, you know, it it really

253
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,880
that's how I kind of got started in karate.

254
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,280
And I love that. You know, it's one of those things I

255
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,040
I love doing it and I love learning more.

256
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:10,240
And, you know, and I love I love Spartan.

257
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,720
And that was one of the things that's really great about that gym, too, is like,

258
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,240
you know, they had about we had probably a good crew from

259
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,960
depending on what time of what year it was.

260
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:24,320
But we had a good crew from, you know, 20, 30, 40 guys.

261
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,800
You know, these about 20 show up at night, but about 40 guys total

262
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:34,160
that they really liked getting in there and fight, you know, and train together.

263
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,040
And they're, you know, tough guys that could just brawl.

264
00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:42,240
Galvez brothers, a bunch of guys that really had had a good time

265
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,360
training with really tough guys.

266
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:46,320
And it was just, you know, we beat the hell out of each other

267
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,200
and make each other better.

268
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,120
Now, what what were the the rules you spied under?

269
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,800
Because I did Shotokan and I did Taekwondo.

270
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,640
And, you know, at Taekwondo, I got national titles, but then was just

271
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,120
over and over again, I was humbled when I started doing real full contact,

272
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,120
because obviously the rules that I fought under in a way

273
00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:06,040
got in the way of me actually learning how to fight.

274
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,440
So what was your experience?

275
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,800
Well, my experience, our rule, we had that was one of the things

276
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:16,560
that with with our gym was that we had we had small head gear

277
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,280
that we'd wear for like for like and head contact was legal.

278
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,920
You know, there's still it was still more point fighting.

279
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,440
So if you got one good punch, you're not going to follow up

280
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:28,960
and chase them down, not finish knocking them out.

281
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,720
But we did. I mean, it was full contacts.

282
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,080
We had we had these Bogo head gears that the big head gears that were.

283
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:40,640
And then we used to be able to same thing.

284
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,960
It also helped you with you don't have a lot of peripheral vision

285
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:45,960
and those things you had to get used to feeling where

286
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,000
feeling where someone's coming from.

287
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,560
But yeah, we we it was it was full contact.

288
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,680
And we and you know, sometimes we do some words like to got to on one.

289
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,960
Well, we did wall training where you're stuck with it back to the wall.

290
00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:02,480
You have to fight off the wall.

291
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,760
A lot of different like street scenario stuff.

292
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,000
And it was a lot.

293
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,720
You know, we were allowed you're allowed to you're allowed to grab.

294
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,280
You know, you could you could take that down.

295
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:14,640
You could throw.

296
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,440
We weren't doing any ground fighting yet.

297
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,480
But but, you know, there was there was

298
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,120
we were allowed to do takedowns.

299
00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:25,920
So that that helped to help a little for that kind of fighting, too.

300
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,920
So when you look back now, having, you know, trained in all these

301
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,240
different disciplines now, you know, Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu,

302
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:36,960
if you could actually take the Bruce Lee philosophy, absorb what is useful.

303
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,280
What would you pull out of that art then keep to your current training?

304
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,160
Well, out of out of that, I kept a lot of it.

305
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,800
I mean, a lot of that lot of stuff I got from there was a lot of that.

306
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,880
I mean, I learned a lot of the basic technique techniques basics.

307
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,760
A lot of the basics of twisting my hips and throwing, you know,

308
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,960
getting the power from where you get your power from.

309
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:04,520
A lot of the just move like there's a lot of foot movement in that style.

310
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:05,880
So a lot of that.

311
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,880
And one of the things I did back then, too, you weren't allowed to do that.

312
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:10,360
But I did it anyway.

313
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:13,280
They have we had our kata day was on Friday.

314
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,360
And I go for the minimum amount of time I had to be there.

315
00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:21,440
And then I would leave and I go to the Kung Fu school on Friday nights.

316
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:22,600
We do open sparring.

317
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,400
You know, so the first time I go down there, you go into Sparrow.

318
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,440
You know, I've been a bunch of street fights at that point,

319
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,760
but the first time you go down there, you go down and you see a Taekwondo guy.

320
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,200
He's coming out. He wears, you know, it's a different.

321
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,640
He's coming out way, way different than the guys I'm used to.

322
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,360
I'm used to the guys I'm with.

323
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:42,440
Those guys I train with are all kind of street brawler type guys.

324
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:47,360
You know, heavy bangers that want to get a guy coming with his flying kicks.

325
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:50,000
And you're trying to. OK, wait, what's going on with this?

326
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,360
And are you going to come in there guys to boxer and go then fight with them

327
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,520
or whatever kickboxer or whatever style they came from.

328
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,600
But it was that that was one of the things I think really helped me move

329
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,120
move forward as being a fighter, too.

330
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:10,000
And even when I came back to hard jam and and we weren't supposed to do that,

331
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,600
because you were not supposed to go outside the art or whatever.

332
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,200
But I, you know, I was a kid and I wanted to learn.

333
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:22,040
I thought going and working with other styles, other people made sense.

334
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,600
So I did it on the side.

335
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,880
Well, now, obviously, you now, as we're talking, you're in Hollywood yourself.

336
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,440
What was some of the movies that inspired you back then as a kid?

337
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,600
You know, one of the ones I used to watch all the time, too, I mean, it's funny.

338
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:43,560
It's funny. But the the master ninja, the ninja show,

339
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,720
I think it was called the master, I think it was.

340
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,160
I was like a weekly show.

341
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,480
It was the guys driving around and the guy driving around his van

342
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,600
and the master and they're going around doing things.

343
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,200
It was it was it was really cool back then.

344
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,880
I was like, oh, man, I want to get home to see that.

345
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,320
See that episode.

346
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,120
Yeah. Did you ever have that moment?

347
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:07,680
Because I did, you know, you have as a wide eyed child, you're watching,

348
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,560
you know, the karate kid, Van Damme movies, you know,

349
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,880
Kung Fu, the the series.

350
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,760
And then you get into martial arts and one day you turn around and look and go,

351
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,680
oh, actually, I'm you know, I'm a better martial artist.

352
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,640
Most of these people that were portraying them when I was a kid.

353
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,200
Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

354
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,920
You got to go, man. Oh, OK.

355
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,680
Illusion shattered.

356
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,160
But now, you know, I look at it, you know, now I'm

357
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,880
I guess I have around movies and stuff, but I look at it as it's, you know,

358
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,640
it's a movie, you know, you get it.

359
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:46,280
They can't be.

360
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:53,000
I mean, I guess you've got the good actors as opposed to some of the big movies.

361
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:56,240
Good actors as opposed to having

362
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,640
good martial artists, so it's all good.

363
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:00,200
Yeah. All right.

364
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,760
Well, then lead us through your journey into discovering the UFC as a spectator

365
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,240
and then and then your journey into that sport yourself.

366
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:12,600
Oh, well, that's the the fast version, I guess.

367
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,280
I mean, I watched the first one. I was in the fight and so my buddies, I mean,

368
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:21,040
there's really things in the audience, you know, eight men under one man lead.

369
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:24,320
But you can check it out like a street fighting and like,

370
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,640
you know, I remember and I remember going back to like the early one, like I saw

371
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,640
I should have Shamrock, I think, finish someone with a heel hook, right?

372
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,000
Or a leg lock, a straight leg lock.

373
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,440
And my and my buddies were like, what is that?

374
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,400
Why do you tap what he's not doing anything?

375
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,840
That doesn't hurt. Like what?

376
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,280
And I'm like, wait a minute.

377
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,440
And I at that point, I've done a lot of martial arts.

378
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,320
I've done a lot of reading, read a lot of different books on different stuff.

379
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,120
And and I've done a little bit of Kijujitsu.

380
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,800
So I'm like, wait, let me let me see.

381
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,760
Let me see that. OK, how do you do that?

382
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,840
Let me see. And I figured out how to do a straight leg like a straight leg lock.

383
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,920
You know, like, you know, like, see, see that.

384
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,400
How does that feel good?

385
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,400
Now, like my body's like, oh, you know, why you tapping?

386
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,400
Why you tapping? I thought that didn't hurt.

387
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,400
So it was a bit.

388
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,240
And I remember back in the day, I remember Lorenzo Neal, a football player.

389
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,400
If you know where he is, there was really good fullback back in the day.

390
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,600
A good friend of mine, but he used to always come in.

391
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,200
Why don't you do this, man?

392
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,760
You're a wrestler and you're and you're a fighter like you should be in the UFC.

393
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,680
Like, I'm like, yeah. So how do we get in?

394
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,480
I don't know. I'll do it. Let's just get me in.

395
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,880
You know, and and

396
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,640
everybody would talk about these tournaments that you did to get in.

397
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,040
And I used to hear all these stories about,

398
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,440
oh, yeah, my instructor went to the tournament, but he was hurting people too bad.

399
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:51,640
So they wouldn't let him in.

400
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,640
And like, like, come on.

401
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,160
But and so and at that time,

402
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,160
there was no tournament to get into the UFC.

403
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:04,440
There was no, you know, it was, you know, you fought places and you got into the UFC.

404
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,800
You know, if you were good enough, someone saw you fight, they go,

405
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,400
you want to fight in the UFC? OK, good.

406
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:16,840
And so eventually, like I actually Nick Nick Blomgren,

407
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,400
longer story, but he kind of got me into kickboxing.

408
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,600
And then he actually got me into doing a mixed ring.

409
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,920
Doing a mixed fight. He's like, you know, my buddy Alfie Alka as you train with him was like,

410
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,760
I told him, hey, Chuck's a pretty good wrestler.

411
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,480
And I was kickboxing from him doing a kickboxing show.

412
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,400
He's like, he's doing a mixed fight in Vegas.

413
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,920
And he's like, I want to do like a couple of pancreas fights on my kickboxing show.

414
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,160
So the open hand striking fights.

415
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,320
And I'm like, OK, Chuck, Alfie says you're a pretty good wrestler.

416
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,400
You want to fight fighting one of these?

417
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:50,520
I said, sure. Why not?

418
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:52,840
So I went out and did it.

419
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,440
And I knocked out a head kick.

420
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,040
I mean, one of the floors, I take him right in the head and he goes face goes straight to the floor.

421
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,120
And a guy comes up and goes, hey, do you want to fight in the UFC?

422
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:05,240
I'm like, sure.

423
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,760
And I was next thing I was fighting in UFC 17.

424
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,160
I was an alternate to the tournament.

425
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,960
And the rest is history, I guess.

426
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,840
I mean, from there on, I fell in love with the sport and just kind of kept going.

427
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:25,880
Beautiful.

428
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,040
Well, you mentioned about open hand strikes.

429
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,800
So what is your philosophy?

430
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:35,960
I had Bas Rutten on the show a little while ago, and he was obviously talking about that for street fighting.

431
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,680
What is your philosophy on open hand strikes in the real world outside the cage?

432
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,320
Well, I mean, they work.

433
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:46,760
If you're worried about hurting your hands, I mean,

434
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:51,640
they're a good option for you.

435
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,320
I mean, I always liked elbows in the street because they work pretty good.

436
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,880
And you can make them look like you're trying to push the guy.

437
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,240
Wait, am I going to get myself in trouble here?

438
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:05,960
No, there's only police officers into this.

439
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:06,440
You're fine.

440
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:14,360
Yeah, no, but I was actually doing a thing for police officers in the sheriff's department.

441
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:19,080
They asked me to just down the sheriff's department down here, and Ventura asked me to do a thing on

442
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:22,840
something that happened.

443
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,800
They showed me a video of something happen in a jail.

444
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:27,960
And how should they have done?

445
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:29,240
What should they have done different?

446
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:37,560
What could they have done better kind of thing in a small PSA sort of thing to their deputies?

447
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:46,440
And I'm like, talking to the guys, I'm like, can I say stuff on the internet, talk about how

448
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:51,400
they can get away with something, make it look like something or am I not supposed to talk about it?

449
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:54,680
I'm like, I just don't want to get anyone in trouble.

450
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:59,080
But I mean, it comes down to a lot of stuff.

451
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,280
It's like anything else.

452
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,600
I used to watch guys get in a fight.

453
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,440
I saw a guy chasing a guy once behind the bar.

454
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,440
And he's chasing after this guy.

455
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,400
And the guy's like, dude, just leave me alone, man.

456
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:16,200
I don't want to fight you.

457
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,360
It was a big guy walking away from a little guy.

458
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,920
And finally, the little guy hits him in the back and punches him in the back of the head.

459
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,640
He turns around and drops the guy, right?

460
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,680
And then runs off.

461
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:34,040
And then the guy gets up and starts running around looking for cops to turn him in.

462
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,040
And my buddies came by, they were cops.

463
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,040
They were like, hey, man, did you see what happened?

464
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,040
I'm like, look, yeah.

465
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:46,440
But honestly, this guy punched a guy in the back of the head and the guy turned around

466
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:47,240
and hit him.

467
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:52,040
And the guy had been trying to walk away from him for like 20 yards.

468
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:59,080
So, I don't know that you want to follow anybody.

469
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,080
So, I just say, okay, we'll take care of it.

470
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:01,880
Beautiful.

471
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:04,380
Yeah.

472
00:31:04,380 --> 00:31:12,680
So, with going back to your kind of journey in the UFC, tell me about finding John Hackerman

473
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:13,400
in the pit.

474
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,360
Oh, well, that was before that.

475
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,840
Like, actually, now, I guess we'll get back to talking to the guy that got me into fighting.

476
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:27,400
The guy that got me into fighting MMA was One Kick Nick, actually.

477
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,800
He's the guy that had me, Nick Blomgren.

478
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,920
He's actually the guy that got me into kickboxing.

479
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:40,040
Because, well, I don't know if it's who you want to credit, but Alfie, Alec Rez, a friend

480
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:40,920
of mine, he's kickboxing.

481
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:42,520
I was coming out to watch him fight in Vegas.

482
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,920
Where I got there from the weigh-ins and I'm sitting there at the weigh-ins and Nick comes

483
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,160
over to me and goes, hey, Alfie says you're a pretty tough guy.

484
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,720
You want to fight tomorrow night?

485
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:52,920
And I sat there for a second.

486
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,760
I go, yeah, why not?

487
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:55,240
I'm here.

488
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:02,040
And he goes over to have me go check in and go to weigh in.

489
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,200
And then, OK, how many fights you got?

490
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,760
I'm like, I don't have any.

491
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:08,440
Why?

492
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:09,880
And they're like, oh.

493
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,640
They kind of roll their eyes and look at Nick like, no, this is not going to happen.

494
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,640
Because he was going to have me fight the guy at the main event.

495
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:16,840
He was 15 years old.

496
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:17,340
Oof.

497
00:32:17,340 --> 00:32:18,780
I don't know.

498
00:32:18,780 --> 00:32:23,100
He's like, I actually fought that guy in my fourth fight.

499
00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:24,060
I think I knocked him out.

500
00:32:24,060 --> 00:32:26,300
But I think it was my fourth or fifth fight that knocked him out.

501
00:32:26,300 --> 00:32:28,300
But that was later.

502
00:32:29,340 --> 00:32:37,420
But John Hatteman, I met John Hatteman at the gym the week before, right before I left

503
00:32:37,420 --> 00:32:38,140
for that thing.

504
00:32:38,140 --> 00:32:39,260
I went to the gym.

505
00:32:39,260 --> 00:32:39,900
I used to train.

506
00:32:39,900 --> 00:32:42,940
I called me in to spar with this black belt that was coming in.

507
00:32:43,660 --> 00:32:46,060
And we did point sparring at the gym.

508
00:32:46,060 --> 00:32:52,860
Not real head contact, but just point sparring, like tap to the face and make it hard to the

509
00:32:52,860 --> 00:32:53,260
body.

510
00:32:53,260 --> 00:32:55,260
And you could do some, right.

511
00:32:55,260 --> 00:32:56,620
I took him down a couple of times.

512
00:32:56,620 --> 00:32:58,540
But other than that, he was kicking my butt.

513
00:32:58,540 --> 00:33:03,100
And I hadn't had anyone kick my butt in a long time.

514
00:33:03,100 --> 00:33:03,980
So I got his card.

515
00:33:03,980 --> 00:33:05,740
And we talked about training together.

516
00:33:05,740 --> 00:33:08,780
And his card said, we're champion kickboxing.

517
00:33:08,780 --> 00:33:12,380
And I'm like, and so I put it in my pocket and think about it.

518
00:33:12,380 --> 00:33:13,820
I went to watch the fight.

519
00:33:13,820 --> 00:33:17,900
And Nick said, well, since I can't get you on this card, I'll put you on my neck.

520
00:33:17,900 --> 00:33:18,540
Go home and train.

521
00:33:18,540 --> 00:33:19,340
And I'll come back.

522
00:33:19,340 --> 00:33:19,740
Come back.

523
00:33:19,740 --> 00:33:21,340
And I'll put you on the next one.

524
00:33:21,340 --> 00:33:22,860
I said, OK, cool.

525
00:33:22,860 --> 00:33:24,700
And I was driving home from Vegas.

526
00:33:24,700 --> 00:33:27,100
I'm like, yeah, I got that guy's card in my pocket.

527
00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:34,220
So I actually called John Hatteman up and said, hey, I want to train.

528
00:33:34,220 --> 00:33:35,980
And I started talking.

529
00:33:35,980 --> 00:33:38,060
This guy talked about me about kickboxing.

530
00:33:38,060 --> 00:33:38,860
I want to compete.

531
00:33:38,860 --> 00:33:40,060
So yeah, I want to train.

532
00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:42,220
So yeah, I come up to my house.

533
00:33:42,220 --> 00:33:43,420
So I came out to his house.

534
00:33:44,940 --> 00:33:47,980
Short version, I went up and basically I went up and I sparred with him.

535
00:33:47,980 --> 00:33:51,820
He beat the little piss out of me for about 19 straight minutes.

536
00:33:51,820 --> 00:33:54,620
His buddy, Jesus Sanchez, is a little martial artist.

537
00:33:54,620 --> 00:34:00,540
He had his unofficial time was 19 minutes when he decided to call it.

538
00:34:00,540 --> 00:34:01,740
He was like, come on, guys, stop.

539
00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:04,700
I think he just got tired of seeing me get hit.

540
00:34:06,140 --> 00:34:07,180
I never boxed.

541
00:34:07,180 --> 00:34:08,540
It was just boxing my whole life.

542
00:34:08,540 --> 00:34:18,220
John's had 200 amateur fights, probably 60 between boxing and kickboxing, 60 some odd pro fights.

543
00:34:20,300 --> 00:34:24,060
And I was leaving.

544
00:34:24,060 --> 00:34:25,100
It was raining and it was raining.

545
00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:28,940
He said, yeah, and I said, I had a motorcycle up and it was raining.

546
00:34:28,940 --> 00:34:33,100
And I was leaving and he's like, hey, take my truck.

547
00:34:33,100 --> 00:34:34,380
I said, well, no, it's okay.

548
00:34:34,380 --> 00:34:34,940
I'm fine.

549
00:34:34,940 --> 00:34:35,900
I said, no, push him up.

550
00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:37,260
You come back tomorrow, right?

551
00:34:37,260 --> 00:34:41,580
Push the motorcycle into my garage and take my truck.

552
00:34:41,580 --> 00:34:42,300
Threw me his keys.

553
00:34:44,060 --> 00:34:45,820
That was the second time I'd met the guy.

554
00:34:45,820 --> 00:34:46,620
Threw me his keys.

555
00:34:47,180 --> 00:34:49,260
I left and I came back for the next day to train.

556
00:34:49,260 --> 00:34:55,820
And we trained there probably six days a week for the next six or seven years until we both opened gyms.

557
00:34:55,820 --> 00:35:01,500
And then we had so we weren't always up there, but he's my coach ever since.

558
00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:03,500
Yeah, that's amazing.

559
00:35:03,500 --> 00:35:06,620
And I think that what jumps out to me again is what I touched on earlier,

560
00:35:06,620 --> 00:35:11,900
which is when you're a martial art, especially in the years that we began,

561
00:35:11,900 --> 00:35:16,940
obviously you ended up eons ahead of where I ever got to, but you do a style,

562
00:35:16,940 --> 00:35:21,260
you end up being successful in that style, but then you go somewhere else and you have

563
00:35:21,260 --> 00:35:25,580
your ass handed to you and you have one of two choices then either don't go back to that place

564
00:35:25,580 --> 00:35:29,660
or swallow your pride, realize you're a white belt again and then start down that road.

565
00:35:31,980 --> 00:35:32,620
Yeah, right.

566
00:35:32,620 --> 00:35:36,060
And one of the things John did was really great about was he's like, look,

567
00:35:36,060 --> 00:35:37,900
I'm just going to add to what you have.

568
00:35:39,100 --> 00:35:44,860
So, again, watching a lot of the build up in some of the later UFCs when they started doing

569
00:35:44,860 --> 00:35:49,660
all the behind the scenes and the training footage, you saw you and John training and

570
00:35:49,660 --> 00:35:52,620
obviously it was pretty brutal, like you said.

571
00:35:52,620 --> 00:35:55,580
So obviously the physical conditioning side was very hard.

572
00:35:56,460 --> 00:35:58,620
What about the level of contact?

573
00:35:58,620 --> 00:36:01,340
Were you guys hitting hard back then too?

574
00:36:01,340 --> 00:36:06,540
Well, I mean, I think John was a lot, we were a lot better than a lot of MMA gyms because we

575
00:36:06,540 --> 00:36:09,260
all both have experience from martial arts.

576
00:36:10,460 --> 00:36:15,100
I mean, I think, I mean, we got our hard sparring and we got our hard stuff getting here and there,

577
00:36:15,100 --> 00:36:17,580
but it wasn't all the time.

578
00:36:17,580 --> 00:36:23,340
I mean, there was a time for really hard sparring, there's a time to timing training,

579
00:36:23,340 --> 00:36:25,980
there's time to work on stuff.

580
00:36:25,980 --> 00:36:30,540
And I think we had a good balance of that.

581
00:36:30,540 --> 00:36:33,580
I mean, we got after it every once in a while.

582
00:36:33,580 --> 00:36:39,340
He'd see it and see when we started going after him, going hard with each other and

583
00:36:39,340 --> 00:36:42,940
go, okay, if we want to do that, all right, go guys, have fun.

584
00:36:42,940 --> 00:36:54,700
But we had a good balance of going hard and training, remembering that we had a good

585
00:36:54,700 --> 00:36:57,420
balance of, you know, remembering that we're training for things.

586
00:36:57,420 --> 00:37:04,060
Yeah, because I found, again, my very, very brief time I had probably in the closest thing

587
00:37:04,060 --> 00:37:10,620
I've ever been to Fight Club, which was Shootbox opened a gym in LA years ago on Melrose.

588
00:37:10,620 --> 00:37:14,780
And now there was literally just live, every sparring session was, you know,

589
00:37:14,780 --> 00:37:16,620
literally beating the shit out of each other.

590
00:37:16,620 --> 00:37:18,300
And I didn't really learn a lot.

591
00:37:18,300 --> 00:37:21,580
I was going to say that, that's a good, that's a good one.

592
00:37:21,580 --> 00:37:23,740
We're up to, those guys fight to go hard, yeah.

593
00:37:23,740 --> 00:37:28,380
Yeah, so, but what I learned is that I didn't really do very well on technique.

594
00:37:28,380 --> 00:37:31,260
It was more survival and I got good at getting hit.

595
00:37:31,260 --> 00:37:36,460
I mean, definitely increased my tolerance to impact, but I didn't feel technically like

596
00:37:36,460 --> 00:37:37,420
I advanced very much.

597
00:37:39,340 --> 00:37:45,340
Yeah, I mean, I think we did, we always did a good portion of, you know,

598
00:37:45,980 --> 00:37:48,780
training for stuff like techniques, back and forth stuff.

599
00:37:50,140 --> 00:37:53,340
We did a little bit, you know, we always did a little bit of back and forth stuff first.

600
00:37:53,340 --> 00:37:56,220
Some sparring, like shadow sparring.

601
00:37:57,660 --> 00:38:01,500
And then, you know, we'd have a few rounds and get after it a little bit.

602
00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:03,100
But he'll still be happy working on things.

603
00:38:03,100 --> 00:38:07,660
You know, it's like, you know, I thought he did a real good job with that.

604
00:38:07,660 --> 00:38:13,340
John's real good at controlling the sparring and having it, like,

605
00:38:13,340 --> 00:38:16,380
something I see some of these guys, I'm like, man, you really going that hard.

606
00:38:16,380 --> 00:38:17,580
It's like, you're fighting.

607
00:38:17,580 --> 00:38:22,460
I see some guys, I remember back in the day, they're training two days before the fight.

608
00:38:22,460 --> 00:38:26,860
And I'm like, are you guys really going that hard at each other?

609
00:38:26,860 --> 00:38:31,660
I mean, you might want to cool down a little bit.

610
00:38:31,660 --> 00:38:33,100
You don't want to hurt them before the fight.

611
00:38:34,380 --> 00:38:35,420
Yeah, well, exactly.

612
00:38:35,420 --> 00:38:38,940
I mean, I remember getting my nose broken perforated eardrum, you know,

613
00:38:38,940 --> 00:38:39,980
definitely concussions.

614
00:38:39,980 --> 00:38:41,340
No question about that.

615
00:38:41,340 --> 00:38:42,780
You know, and having headaches for days.

616
00:38:42,780 --> 00:38:47,020
And now, yeah, being in that, even though it wasn't at a high level,

617
00:38:47,020 --> 00:38:51,740
seeing the discussion now, I mean, Max Holloway just had the most incredible performance.

618
00:38:51,740 --> 00:38:54,860
And I think that they're on the other side of the spectrum now, where he's

619
00:38:54,860 --> 00:38:58,380
almost only fighting really hard once he's actually in the cage.

620
00:38:59,980 --> 00:39:05,900
Yeah, I mean, for us, we had our, we'd have our time when we go hard.

621
00:39:05,900 --> 00:39:10,300
But I mean, everybody kind of knew what it was sparring.

622
00:39:10,300 --> 00:39:12,300
You know, we're getting ready for this, doing ready.

623
00:39:13,340 --> 00:39:14,620
This guy's got a fight coming up.

624
00:39:15,260 --> 00:39:18,620
I'm not trying to beat up a guy that's got a fight coming up next week.

625
00:39:18,620 --> 00:39:19,580
You know, I'm not trying to hurt him.

626
00:39:19,580 --> 00:39:22,380
I mean, you know, I heard, you know, I come out,

627
00:39:22,380 --> 00:39:24,700
he's going to give me some residual stuff on the fighting ground.

628
00:39:26,300 --> 00:39:26,780
Exactly.

629
00:39:26,780 --> 00:39:30,700
Well, with, you know, with the pit being, you know, forging men and women,

630
00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:34,540
obviously, you know, in fire in that particular facility or with John's training,

631
00:39:35,260 --> 00:39:39,260
one of the titles, one of your chapters that really stuck with me was you quote,

632
00:39:40,060 --> 00:39:42,700
being mentally tough is not a sometimes thing.

633
00:39:42,700 --> 00:39:45,340
And that really resonated with me in my profession.

634
00:39:45,340 --> 00:39:48,940
Like, for example, you know, our crucible, whether it's fire academy,

635
00:39:48,940 --> 00:39:53,260
you know, boot camp in the military, police academy, you know, that's the first step.

636
00:39:53,260 --> 00:39:56,540
And a lot of times if it's run well, it will be really hard to get through that.

637
00:39:56,540 --> 00:40:01,820
But then you have to hold that standard yourself and your employer as well.

638
00:40:01,820 --> 00:40:04,620
Through your entire career, you can't just pick and choose

639
00:40:04,620 --> 00:40:07,900
when something's going to be hard and then be a part timer after that.

640
00:40:08,620 --> 00:40:10,620
Right. That's the one thing I tell you.

641
00:40:12,140 --> 00:40:13,340
Things get really tough.

642
00:40:14,460 --> 00:40:18,460
You're going to do what you consistently do, what you consistently practice.

643
00:40:18,460 --> 00:40:25,100
Like if you if you're tired, you quit, you're going to quit when it's important.

644
00:40:25,100 --> 00:40:27,900
You're not going to all of a sudden turn into being a mentally tough guy.

645
00:40:28,780 --> 00:40:30,700
You can't just turn on for a fight.

646
00:40:30,700 --> 00:40:31,980
Can't just turn on for this.

647
00:40:34,300 --> 00:40:38,780
For me, it's always been it's I've always and I actually reinforced that for myself,

648
00:40:38,780 --> 00:40:43,020
actually, after I retired, because I started doing the long run.

649
00:40:43,020 --> 00:40:44,460
I don't have to do this because of that.

650
00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:47,580
I've already done this. I did everything.

651
00:40:47,580 --> 00:40:49,660
I achieved everything I'm done.

652
00:40:49,660 --> 00:40:51,420
I don't have to go work out.

653
00:40:53,340 --> 00:40:58,380
But it really caught my eye when I was I was actually running with my family.

654
00:40:58,380 --> 00:41:01,580
I'm not running. We're going up stairs in Hawaii.

655
00:41:02,700 --> 00:41:05,660
And my son took off running up the stairs.

656
00:41:08,140 --> 00:41:10,060
And I started to chase.

657
00:41:10,780 --> 00:41:11,740
I started running after him.

658
00:41:13,260 --> 00:41:17,500
And in our race, and I'm passing him.

659
00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:21,100
I'm passing him up and then I pass up and going to make

660
00:41:22,060 --> 00:41:23,980
and I actually across my mind.

661
00:41:23,980 --> 00:41:28,220
Man, should I just let I just and not because I'm because I was trying to be nice to him,

662
00:41:28,220 --> 00:41:35,100
but because I was tired across my mind to let him go and I'm really am I really thinking that?

663
00:41:35,100 --> 00:41:37,260
Like am I because I never questioned myself.

664
00:41:37,260 --> 00:41:38,380
It was never a question.

665
00:41:38,380 --> 00:41:43,340
And then that question of should I should I should I let someone run because I'm tired,

666
00:41:43,340 --> 00:41:45,260
never crossed my mind ever before that.

667
00:41:45,260 --> 00:41:50,220
And that for me was enough to kick my kick me back into like, hey, you got to make this a

668
00:41:50,780 --> 00:41:57,740
habit to not quit or not stop it because I said that before that I used to say that now after that

669
00:41:57,740 --> 00:42:00,220
doing that, I'm like, oh, man, I it really is.

670
00:42:00,860 --> 00:42:05,500
I'm like myself slipped or I'm actually asking myself, should I should I give in because I'm

671
00:42:05,500 --> 00:42:12,060
tired and let him have it or and and for me, that was a big, big moment for me.

672
00:42:12,060 --> 00:42:15,500
Just reinforcing what I feel about, you know, it's not enough.

673
00:42:15,500 --> 00:42:19,180
This isn't it's it's an everyday thing.

674
00:42:19,180 --> 00:42:20,220
It's an all the time thing.

675
00:42:21,180 --> 00:42:23,980
You know, it's not you can't just choose when to be tough.

676
00:42:23,980 --> 00:42:27,900
And I'm not saying like and like there's situations where you're the only one that knows.

677
00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:33,340
I mean, I'm not saying when you have to play like every time you wrestle, it's like it's a gold

678
00:42:33,340 --> 00:42:33,980
medal match.

679
00:42:34,700 --> 00:42:38,300
You know, if you're in a position where you might get hurt and you're thinking, I'll just let him

680
00:42:38,300 --> 00:42:39,740
have it because I want to get hurt right now.

681
00:42:39,740 --> 00:42:42,380
I don't want it's not worth getting hurt over.

682
00:42:43,020 --> 00:42:43,660
That's the difference.

683
00:42:43,660 --> 00:42:47,980
You know, you know, whether you made that decision for that reason or because you were tired

684
00:42:47,980 --> 00:42:49,100
and didn't want to fight for it.

685
00:42:49,820 --> 00:42:52,300
But you're the only one that knows that you made that decision.

686
00:42:52,860 --> 00:42:55,020
You know, you know which one which which one it was.

687
00:42:56,780 --> 00:42:58,700
You can't fool yourself.

688
00:42:58,700 --> 00:42:59,740
You know, which one it was.

689
00:42:59,740 --> 00:43:06,860
So I'm not saying you can't be, you know, smart when you're when you're training and working

690
00:43:06,860 --> 00:43:11,420
out and doing stuff and some things are worth fighting over if you might get hurt doing it.

691
00:43:11,420 --> 00:43:13,660
But you know, I was that way as a kid, too.

692
00:43:13,660 --> 00:43:19,180
Like sometimes when I train and I, you know, I wouldn't give up any just because I got to

693
00:43:19,180 --> 00:43:19,820
fight for it.

694
00:43:19,820 --> 00:43:21,100
I can't stop.

695
00:43:21,100 --> 00:43:22,460
I can't give up anything.

696
00:43:22,460 --> 00:43:25,980
You want to get hurt in training when you really probably shouldn't take it.

697
00:43:25,980 --> 00:43:26,940
It was worth that risk.

698
00:43:26,940 --> 00:43:30,220
But it's a balance as you get older.

699
00:43:30,220 --> 00:43:31,980
But yeah, well, I saw you here.

700
00:43:31,980 --> 00:43:34,060
Some of these guys say, I never tap.

701
00:43:34,060 --> 00:43:37,100
Well, then how do you train after they break your arm?

702
00:43:37,100 --> 00:43:38,220
I don't quite understand.

703
00:43:38,220 --> 00:43:40,140
Isn't it better to say, all right, you got me.

704
00:43:40,140 --> 00:43:41,740
I'm tapping that lesson learned.

705
00:43:41,740 --> 00:43:43,420
Let me see if I can avoid that next time.

706
00:43:43,420 --> 00:43:47,340
But yeah, the tap is there so that you don't get hurt and you can continue training.

707
00:43:48,300 --> 00:43:49,100
Exactly.

708
00:43:49,100 --> 00:43:56,140
I mean, I mean, you know, I'm the last guy to tap to a choke.

709
00:43:56,140 --> 00:43:59,820
But that's that's that's a choice.

710
00:43:59,820 --> 00:44:00,300
Right.

711
00:44:00,300 --> 00:44:07,500
But I think but I anytime you tap into like an arm bar or like an even if it's a neck

712
00:44:07,500 --> 00:44:11,100
crank, sometimes that sometimes guys, it looks like that choke was really he's getting a

713
00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:12,940
neck crank and then tweaking your neck.

714
00:44:12,940 --> 00:44:13,500
Right.

715
00:44:13,500 --> 00:44:18,540
You know, that can be a long time recovery thing where what over what an ego.

716
00:44:18,540 --> 00:44:19,340
Yeah.

717
00:44:19,340 --> 00:44:22,940
OK, I didn't let him I didn't tap my arm.

718
00:44:22,940 --> 00:44:24,140
I didn't tap anyway.

719
00:44:24,140 --> 00:44:24,700
I'm tough.

720
00:44:24,700 --> 00:44:26,860
My arm's not going to work for six months.

721
00:44:26,860 --> 00:44:31,740
You know, that's doesn't make sense.

722
00:44:31,740 --> 00:44:37,820
No, and even in, you know, like the CrossFit world, I coach and I'm a CrossFit athlete

723
00:44:37,820 --> 00:44:42,940
as well as one of those one of the exercise methods I think works well for our community.

724
00:44:42,940 --> 00:44:47,500
But there's that whole tendency to PR, you know, and the same with the deadlift.

725
00:44:47,500 --> 00:44:52,060
Like, you know, if you pull X amount and it's 85 percent of your your max,

726
00:44:52,860 --> 00:44:53,180
brilliant.

727
00:44:53,180 --> 00:44:56,380
But if you hurt yourself on 100 percent, but you get a new number on the board,

728
00:44:56,380 --> 00:44:58,140
what you know, what have you achieved?

729
00:44:58,140 --> 00:45:00,380
Absolutely nothing other than six months of rehab.

730
00:45:02,780 --> 00:45:03,020
Right.

731
00:45:03,740 --> 00:45:05,900
Well, you mentioned cranks and locks.

732
00:45:05,900 --> 00:45:10,620
So, again, up to this point in the story, you're a stand up fighter and then obviously

733
00:45:10,620 --> 00:45:11,580
a wrestler as well.

734
00:45:11,580 --> 00:45:14,620
So tell me about your journey into Jiu Jitsu.

735
00:45:14,620 --> 00:45:17,020
And again, was that humbling when you first started?

736
00:45:18,700 --> 00:45:25,180
Well, you know, Scott Adams is my partner in my gym and he was doing Jiu Jitsu and started

737
00:45:25,180 --> 00:45:32,380
doing Jiu Jitsu. So I started training with him and, you know, we I think the first I

738
00:45:33,180 --> 00:45:37,020
think one of the classes at Beverly Hills Jiu Jitsu place.

739
00:45:40,780 --> 00:45:47,820
And I did one G class and then one without a G with Marco Huas.

740
00:45:47,820 --> 00:45:56,620
So for the first time, the first time doing stuff and then and then I went actually,

741
00:45:56,620 --> 00:45:59,260
I still use I still use that a net crank.

742
00:45:59,260 --> 00:46:06,140
I learned that that day to this day with guys, I get one of Marco Huas's net cranks all the

743
00:46:06,140 --> 00:46:14,380
time. So but yeah, but then I went on to work with I think Mark Layman taught that time

744
00:46:14,380 --> 00:46:18,060
that I did a class we did just cause Mark Layman there, too.

745
00:46:19,820 --> 00:46:21,500
Or he was working at desk maybe.

746
00:46:22,540 --> 00:46:25,340
I think I said I told him, man, I'm notified and you'll see.

747
00:46:25,340 --> 00:46:27,100
And he's like, yeah, sure you are.

748
00:46:29,820 --> 00:46:30,620
Yeah, it was funny.

749
00:46:31,420 --> 00:46:34,460
But then I thought I started working with John Lewis in Vegas.

750
00:46:36,540 --> 00:46:38,540
And he started helping me get ready.

751
00:46:38,540 --> 00:46:44,300
Get ready for that fight and and work with him for a long time.

752
00:46:44,300 --> 00:46:49,020
He's my Jiu Jitsu coach for a fight man.

753
00:46:49,980 --> 00:46:52,300
And I actually really loved doing Jiu Jitsu.

754
00:46:52,300 --> 00:46:53,580
I liked like it.

755
00:46:53,580 --> 00:46:55,580
I mean, it's one of those things where people are surprised.

756
00:46:55,580 --> 00:47:00,300
Like I surprise people a lot of times when I do Jiu Jitsu with them, because for some

757
00:47:00,300 --> 00:47:03,420
reason they think I'm still new to Jiu Jitsu.

758
00:47:03,420 --> 00:47:07,420
Or I started I'm like I started Jiu Jitsu in 97.

759
00:47:08,860 --> 00:47:11,660
That's a more experience than most people on planet Earth.

760
00:47:12,700 --> 00:47:15,340
Yeah, I've been doing it for a long time.

761
00:47:16,540 --> 00:47:23,660
But yeah, it's actually for me, I tell you, it's it's it's fun.

762
00:47:23,660 --> 00:47:27,500
It's fun for me to learn because there's so many things to learn.

763
00:47:27,500 --> 00:47:32,780
Did you have a kind of humility story where you first went in either gi or no gi and,

764
00:47:32,780 --> 00:47:35,900
you know, again, were caught by something like, oh, God, here we go again.

765
00:47:35,900 --> 00:47:38,540
I'm learning. I'm learning from scratch yet again.

766
00:47:38,540 --> 00:47:43,420
Well, that for me, like when I first when I first put a gi on with someone like I was

767
00:47:43,420 --> 00:47:46,460
going with John Lewis, who at the time was fighting 155.

768
00:47:46,460 --> 00:47:49,660
So I was at two point, 199 or 200.

769
00:47:50,780 --> 00:47:53,740
And I was like, I'm going to go with John Lewis.

770
00:47:53,740 --> 00:48:00,140
We'll find more 99 or 200 and just he had that like spider guard and like

771
00:48:00,700 --> 00:48:02,540
just he wanted to sweep me and I'm like this one.

772
00:48:03,740 --> 00:48:06,140
Like, you know, I thought I'd get my hand out.

773
00:48:06,140 --> 00:48:07,820
I was I was at a pretty good pace.

774
00:48:08,380 --> 00:48:09,260
I was really good at base.

775
00:48:09,260 --> 00:48:11,900
And I was he taught me real quick how to do things.

776
00:48:12,460 --> 00:48:19,740
But I were like, I mean, even like that the arm triangle I got caught in from Jeremy Horn.

777
00:48:19,740 --> 00:48:24,140
I honestly, I didn't know he I didn't think he had anything.

778
00:48:24,460 --> 00:48:27,260
And if I thought he had something, I think I would have got out of it.

779
00:48:27,260 --> 00:48:30,300
If I just started squirming right away, I knew what he was trying to do.

780
00:48:30,620 --> 00:48:32,860
I thought he didn't have anything and there's only 10 seconds left.

781
00:48:32,860 --> 00:48:33,980
So I'm like, wow, this way here.

782
00:48:35,500 --> 00:48:37,500
When he just slowly got tighter and tighter.

783
00:48:40,860 --> 00:48:46,300
But yeah, I mean, I think back then there wasn't a lot of good guys out there.

784
00:48:46,300 --> 00:48:49,980
Like, so I think I was one of those guys that are other guys were learning.

785
00:48:50,460 --> 00:48:55,100
So I didn't get as much of that where like you got to step in and everybody's, you know,

786
00:48:55,420 --> 00:48:57,580
slick and you know, all this crazy stuff to you.

787
00:48:58,380 --> 00:49:00,540
So I was and I'm so I was learning.

788
00:49:00,540 --> 00:49:02,540
I got to learn at my own pace.

789
00:49:03,020 --> 00:49:04,460
But I learned pretty quickly.

790
00:49:04,460 --> 00:49:07,260
And they and John Lewis would take me through things quick.

791
00:49:07,260 --> 00:49:12,140
I got taught me a he taught me one thing I did really good.

792
00:49:12,140 --> 00:49:21,420
I did the concentrated on about 80, about 20, 25 percent of the techniques I concentrate on.

793
00:49:22,380 --> 00:49:23,580
Staying in good position.

794
00:49:26,780 --> 00:49:34,380
Getting out, getting out from underneath people, getting back up and and not getting caught in submissions.

795
00:49:35,420 --> 00:49:40,140
So I was trying to learn the basics of all the submissions as fast as I could.

796
00:49:40,140 --> 00:49:43,820
And I kind of perfected a few different moves on my own.

797
00:49:43,820 --> 00:49:46,060
Just I was creative with it.

798
00:49:46,060 --> 00:49:52,700
I just act like I like Scott Adam would mold the knee bar and I use that.

799
00:49:52,700 --> 00:49:55,740
I use that his his technique for doing that.

800
00:49:55,740 --> 00:49:58,060
I'd molded knee bar and everyone thought I was going to the knee bar.

801
00:49:58,460 --> 00:50:02,860
And then halfway through, I just let go and pull my leg out and stand up.

802
00:50:02,860 --> 00:50:04,860
And everyone went, oh, oops.

803
00:50:06,380 --> 00:50:07,340
Oh, I thought I had it.

804
00:50:07,340 --> 00:50:08,060
I thought I had it.

805
00:50:08,060 --> 00:50:10,380
I thought I was countering that.

806
00:50:10,380 --> 00:50:11,180
He's standing up.

807
00:50:11,180 --> 00:50:12,620
Why is he punching me in the face?

808
00:50:12,620 --> 00:50:13,180
Yeah.

809
00:50:13,180 --> 00:50:19,340
So so it was I think a lot of it had to do.

810
00:50:19,340 --> 00:50:28,140
I just had spent a lot of time trying to kind of work on the basic stuff that I needed to stay in control and get back on my feet.

811
00:50:28,140 --> 00:50:31,500
Now, did you feel like there was a kind of race for knowledge back then?

812
00:50:31,500 --> 00:50:35,980
Because just when people were discovering, you know, the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu element,

813
00:50:35,980 --> 00:50:46,220
you know, there must have been a sense of I need to become better than this, at this than than other people before they learn more than me, because it was literally like this.

814
00:50:46,220 --> 00:50:47,580
People almost never heard of it.

815
00:50:47,580 --> 00:50:53,500
And all of a sudden, there was this like tidal wave of Jiu-Jitsu knowledge that people needed to learn.

816
00:50:54,300 --> 00:50:54,940
Right.

817
00:50:54,940 --> 00:50:56,780
And it was like it was.

818
00:50:56,780 --> 00:51:04,140
But at that time, too, we were all trying to figure out how to train it, how to train how to how to train.

819
00:51:04,140 --> 00:51:07,260
How to put them all together, right?

820
00:51:07,260 --> 00:51:10,460
With a gi, without a gi, no gi, with a gi.

821
00:51:10,460 --> 00:51:17,580
How to just how do you train sparring and wrestling and Jiu-Jitsu together?

822
00:51:17,580 --> 00:51:19,180
And how do you mix it together?

823
00:51:19,180 --> 00:51:21,020
How do you how to get ready for a fight?

824
00:51:21,020 --> 00:51:24,220
You know, it was a big learning curve back then.

825
00:51:24,220 --> 00:51:24,700
And everyone.

826
00:51:25,900 --> 00:51:32,860
And I think the people that consistently did better were the guys that were were really trying to learn and get outside.

827
00:51:32,860 --> 00:51:35,740
So you got some of those guys that stuck in like, oh, my style is better.

828
00:51:35,740 --> 00:51:37,980
I'm just going to stay with my style and I'm going to do my style.

829
00:51:39,180 --> 00:51:42,540
And those guys kind of slipped, started slowly slipping off.

830
00:51:42,540 --> 00:51:48,220
You know, they if you weren't ready, if you weren't ready to evolve and improve,

831
00:51:49,260 --> 00:51:51,900
you're going to get passed up really quickly back then.

832
00:51:51,900 --> 00:51:52,700
Yeah.

833
00:51:52,700 --> 00:51:59,580
Well, it's something that I'm getting from reading your story as well is that Muhammad Ali is famous

834
00:51:59,580 --> 00:52:03,980
for quoting that he hated training, you know, but obviously, you know, he was an incredible champion,

835
00:52:03,980 --> 00:52:07,100
but it was the time in the ring, I think, that he really enjoyed.

836
00:52:08,220 --> 00:52:13,260
Were you kind of the opposite where you almost enjoyed the journey and the training more than

837
00:52:13,260 --> 00:52:14,860
chasing a belt or a title?

838
00:52:15,820 --> 00:52:17,420
Yeah, I really was.

839
00:52:17,420 --> 00:52:19,580
I mean, I really love every part of it.

840
00:52:19,580 --> 00:52:20,860
I like to I like training.

841
00:52:20,860 --> 00:52:21,900
I like I'm getting up every day.

842
00:52:21,900 --> 00:52:23,740
I like trying to figure out how to beat somebody.

843
00:52:25,580 --> 00:52:28,140
I like trying to pick someone apart, trying to

844
00:52:28,140 --> 00:52:31,340
figure out and trying to figure out better ways of getting out of things.

845
00:52:31,340 --> 00:52:32,460
I learned a long time ago.

846
00:52:32,460 --> 00:52:36,060
Like I see watch guys train something and teach something.

847
00:52:38,380 --> 00:52:41,500
And they they don't always show everything that they do different.

848
00:52:41,500 --> 00:52:43,660
Like you see someone like a good example.

849
00:52:43,660 --> 00:52:45,020
I saw I watched Jake Shields.

850
00:52:45,020 --> 00:52:47,660
There's a while ago he's gotten he teaches it now.

851
00:52:47,660 --> 00:52:54,620
But that that when we were on Ultimate Fighter, he came in and was showing his his guillotine.

852
00:52:54,620 --> 00:52:58,060
And I'm like, and he has a great guillotine finishes, guys.

853
00:52:58,060 --> 00:53:00,220
He's just a good, good job with it.

854
00:53:00,860 --> 00:53:02,300
And I'm like, what?

855
00:53:02,300 --> 00:53:04,860
He's teaching it the same way everybody else teaches it.

856
00:53:06,380 --> 00:53:07,340
He's not doing anything.

857
00:53:07,340 --> 00:53:08,700
He's not teaching anything different.

858
00:53:08,700 --> 00:53:09,740
And I was looking at him.

859
00:53:09,740 --> 00:53:15,260
But what is he doing different that makes it work different?

860
00:53:15,260 --> 00:53:18,220
And then, oh, OK, that's what he's doing.

861
00:53:18,220 --> 00:53:19,100
He's got his hip.

862
00:53:19,100 --> 00:53:23,100
OK, I see that now that so I got used to looking for that.

863
00:53:23,100 --> 00:53:29,580
And I actually learned that after my after my the first Ultimate Fighter, I was coaching,

864
00:53:30,460 --> 00:53:34,380
coaching the guys and I showed them a move that works for me all the time.

865
00:53:34,380 --> 00:53:38,940
I get most of the time, most probably 85 percent of the time I use it.

866
00:53:38,940 --> 00:53:42,300
I'd be able to get up and get I get to position I like.

867
00:53:43,340 --> 00:53:45,500
And it wasn't working for them.

868
00:53:45,500 --> 00:53:46,700
They just couldn't get it.

869
00:53:46,700 --> 00:53:48,860
They couldn't get it at all.

870
00:53:49,500 --> 00:53:51,660
I'm like, man, these guys are pretty good.

871
00:53:51,660 --> 00:53:55,500
And what they do, I was talking to one of them was for I'm the one going for them.

872
00:53:55,500 --> 00:53:56,700
I can't do that again.

873
00:53:57,340 --> 00:53:58,860
What is he doing wrong?

874
00:53:58,860 --> 00:53:59,980
Why isn't he getting this?

875
00:53:59,980 --> 00:54:05,260
I'm like, oh, he has to push the push the arm first.

876
00:54:05,260 --> 00:54:09,180
And then he said, get that get that little momentum going this way first and then do

877
00:54:09,180 --> 00:54:12,620
with the move for to work because I didn't really even notice I was doing that.

878
00:54:13,260 --> 00:54:15,260
It was just I was natural for me to do it.

879
00:54:15,980 --> 00:54:19,980
So it was natural for me to pop the person so to load load the hips a little bit so I

880
00:54:19,980 --> 00:54:22,380
could have the ability to make that move work.

881
00:54:23,020 --> 00:54:26,060
And he started doing oh, and got it and got it and started working.

882
00:54:26,060 --> 00:54:26,940
I started working for him.

883
00:54:26,940 --> 00:54:31,740
So I'm like, oh, so I mean, I think that first ultimate fighter really helped me as a coach

884
00:54:31,740 --> 00:54:37,260
learn to teach better because, you know, no one had to do things one thing, no one had

885
00:54:37,260 --> 00:54:38,300
to teach it to another.

886
00:54:39,820 --> 00:54:40,780
Yeah, absolutely.

887
00:54:40,780 --> 00:54:45,260
Well, another thing that you talk about a little bit in the book is your love of chess

888
00:54:45,260 --> 00:54:46,380
when you were younger.

889
00:54:46,380 --> 00:54:52,060
And people that just know you as the as the literally the man in the octagon probably

890
00:54:52,060 --> 00:54:56,860
don't understand the analytical side of your fight philosophy.

891
00:54:56,860 --> 00:55:02,380
So how do you know how much time do you take on actually analyzing an opponent before you

892
00:55:02,380 --> 00:55:02,860
fight them?

893
00:55:06,060 --> 00:55:08,060
Well, I tried it.

894
00:55:08,060 --> 00:55:14,300
I tried to go through I go through the films and try to figure out when they were available.

895
00:55:14,300 --> 00:55:16,700
Back then, sometimes it was hard to get films on guys.

896
00:55:17,980 --> 00:55:22,220
But the more film I have, the more time I always just say, the more time I get to spar

897
00:55:22,220 --> 00:55:24,140
with you, the better chance I have against you.

898
00:55:24,140 --> 00:55:26,140
I'll get better against you every time we spar.

899
00:55:26,940 --> 00:55:33,260
You know, every time we train together, I'll get better because I know how to I can I can

900
00:55:33,260 --> 00:55:34,700
I know what kind of moves you do.

901
00:55:34,700 --> 00:55:36,220
I know what things you try.

902
00:55:36,220 --> 00:55:41,100
I'll start picking apart how you set up things and how you react to things.

903
00:55:41,100 --> 00:55:45,260
And if I can figure out how you react to things, I can figure out how to how to land something.

904
00:55:46,380 --> 00:55:51,420
So I actually really like that part of it, like trying to figure out what kind of watch

905
00:55:52,140 --> 00:55:54,220
and do my homework.

906
00:55:55,020 --> 00:55:58,380
Well, I know you've talked about, you know, wishing you could have had another fight or

907
00:55:58,380 --> 00:56:03,900
rampage if you could like if you could go back and talk to young Chuck, what would you

908
00:56:03,900 --> 00:56:06,380
tell him to do differently to be able to beat that man?

909
00:56:06,380 --> 00:56:12,620
You know, I think I had some stuff figured out for that, but I just it's one of those

910
00:56:12,620 --> 00:56:17,820
things that I need to I need to mix some stuff up with him a little more like and, you know,

911
00:56:18,380 --> 00:56:19,980
I do a little more wrestling with him.

912
00:56:20,460 --> 00:56:28,940
I think at that point, I started when I started getting away from, you know, I started getting

913
00:56:28,940 --> 00:56:30,700
away from that.

914
00:56:30,700 --> 00:56:32,780
I would go just going out and striking with guys.

915
00:56:32,780 --> 00:56:40,540
And I got away with some of the stuff I got away with.

916
00:56:40,540 --> 00:56:43,340
I mean, I got caught that got that fight the last fight.

917
00:56:43,340 --> 00:56:46,380
I thought before that, I thought I should have had him too.

918
00:56:46,380 --> 00:56:55,980
But, you know, it's one of those things that going back, I think I think I should I should

919
00:56:55,980 --> 00:57:01,500
have done a little more keeping him off palettes, not letting him know it's he can just sit

920
00:57:01,500 --> 00:57:03,100
there and strike with me.

921
00:57:03,100 --> 00:57:07,820
And I think I've given that advice to a lot of people over the years now, as I you know,

922
00:57:07,820 --> 00:57:11,340
because I got away from, you know, just the one of the things that made me great in the

923
00:57:11,340 --> 00:57:15,980
beginning is I could fight anywhere and I and I could control where the fight was.

924
00:57:15,980 --> 00:57:20,300
And I kept keep you guessing what I want to do, whether I want to take you down or if I

925
00:57:20,300 --> 00:57:21,260
want to stay up with you.

926
00:57:23,420 --> 00:57:30,620
And when I got away from that, it made it a lot easier and easier fight for people, you

927
00:57:30,620 --> 00:57:33,660
know, when you can they know you're not know what you're going to do, they know what you're

928
00:57:33,660 --> 00:57:34,220
going to do.

929
00:57:34,780 --> 00:57:35,740
Maybe a little easier.

930
00:57:36,940 --> 00:57:40,860
Now, you obviously piqued to the point where, you know, you were a champion for years.

931
00:57:41,580 --> 00:57:47,740
What was your mindset that kept you being able to focus on training when you were winning?

932
00:57:50,300 --> 00:57:56,380
Well, I think a lot of a lot of that had to do with I just I mean, part of it has to do

933
00:57:56,380 --> 00:58:05,500
with I think as a as a fighter or as is it's more about the improving and the getting better.

934
00:58:05,500 --> 00:58:10,060
And I mean, the actual winning of titles and winning of things last what couple of days a

935
00:58:10,060 --> 00:58:12,300
week, you know, getting excited.

936
00:58:12,300 --> 00:58:14,380
It doesn't last maybe a month.

937
00:58:14,380 --> 00:58:14,860
I don't know.

938
00:58:14,860 --> 00:58:20,220
I can't even remember how long I was excited about it as far as I was more excited about

939
00:58:20,220 --> 00:58:21,180
who am I fighting next?

940
00:58:22,060 --> 00:58:23,100
When am I going to fight next?

941
00:58:23,100 --> 00:58:26,940
When am I going to be ready next?

942
00:58:26,940 --> 00:58:40,860
You know, and and I think that was always the the driving force was that I is just the

943
00:58:41,660 --> 00:58:48,940
improvement and getting better and becoming a better fighter and and chasing that who's

944
00:58:48,940 --> 00:58:51,020
next who's next to prove I'm the best.

945
00:58:51,020 --> 00:58:52,220
Yeah.

946
00:58:52,220 --> 00:58:57,740
Well, conversely, then, so what about when you started having losses, you know, mentally,

947
00:58:57,740 --> 00:59:02,860
what was that like for you, you know, being on the top and now having each time to go

948
00:59:02,860 --> 00:59:05,660
back and figure out how to beat the next person?

949
00:59:07,660 --> 00:59:09,340
You know, it's one of those things.

950
00:59:09,340 --> 00:59:19,100
I mean, looking back, you know, it was it was tough, you know, it's one of the things,

951
00:59:19,100 --> 00:59:28,460
but it's always like I always felt like when I was done, I always felt like I always felt

952
00:59:28,460 --> 00:59:31,420
like I I should have won that fight.

953
00:59:31,420 --> 00:59:33,660
I should have I know mistakes.

954
00:59:33,660 --> 00:59:37,180
I mean, I know what I did wrong and to get back and to work on it and just get out there

955
00:59:37,180 --> 00:59:37,580
and do it.

956
00:59:38,860 --> 00:59:47,980
You know, you know, and I think I waited too long to actually try to change the way I was

957
00:59:47,980 --> 00:59:52,220
fighting because I kind of got I did feel like I got away from from mixing up everything

958
00:59:52,220 --> 00:59:59,260
and I should have been, you know, mixing my wrestling more with my striking and doing

959
00:59:59,260 --> 01:00:00,380
that some of that stuff earlier.

960
01:00:00,380 --> 01:00:06,140
And I think it might have made a difference, you know, but in the longevity of fighting.

961
01:00:06,140 --> 01:00:08,300
But, you know, I fought till I was 40.

962
01:00:08,300 --> 01:00:11,260
So, I mean, I think it's funny.

963
01:00:11,260 --> 01:00:15,580
I was watching the fight laws quite a while ago now, but they're talking about one of

964
01:00:15,580 --> 01:00:21,260
the guys I knew and he was 31 and I was talking about him being an aging fighter, being way

965
01:00:21,260 --> 01:00:23,580
past he should have retired a long time ago.

966
01:00:23,580 --> 01:00:25,180
You know, he's retired.

967
01:00:25,180 --> 01:00:26,860
He's getting too old now.

968
01:00:26,860 --> 01:00:27,740
He was 31.

969
01:00:28,380 --> 01:00:31,100
You know, I was like, OK, then you got people like Randy.

970
01:00:31,100 --> 01:00:34,140
That is I won my first title at 35.

971
01:00:34,140 --> 01:00:39,180
So, you know, I hung in there quite a bit, quite a while.

972
01:00:39,180 --> 01:00:41,660
And, you know, maybe maybe the longer and I should have.

973
01:00:41,660 --> 01:00:43,580
But, you know, I was still enjoying it.

974
01:00:43,580 --> 01:00:48,940
And I was in one thing if I was going out there and get beat up and then knocked out.

975
01:00:49,740 --> 01:00:53,740
But I always felt like I was winning the fight and I got caught and got knocked out.

976
01:00:53,740 --> 01:00:54,780
Like I can fix that.

977
01:00:55,660 --> 01:00:59,100
And, you know, it is what it is.

978
01:01:02,460 --> 01:01:03,020
It's tough.

979
01:01:03,020 --> 01:01:04,540
But I mean, I always had that mindset.

980
01:01:04,540 --> 01:01:07,740
It's like I can I can fix this and I can win.

981
01:01:07,740 --> 01:01:09,100
I can beat I can get back.

982
01:01:09,100 --> 01:01:10,300
Let me give me another chance.

983
01:01:10,300 --> 01:01:12,300
I mean, right after I'm in the back room.

984
01:01:12,300 --> 01:01:13,740
Yeah, I can do this again.

985
01:01:13,740 --> 01:01:14,780
Can I have another shot at this?

986
01:01:14,780 --> 01:01:15,340
Give me one more.

987
01:01:16,460 --> 01:01:17,340
Let me try again.

988
01:01:18,220 --> 01:01:21,180
Yeah, which again shows that you were on that journey as opposed to

989
01:01:21,900 --> 01:01:24,380
just being focused on that that win or that title.

990
01:01:25,020 --> 01:01:29,820
OK, so then as far as transitioning out, my community, whether it's first responders,

991
01:01:29,820 --> 01:01:33,740
whether it's military, that can sometimes be a tough transition.

992
01:01:33,740 --> 01:01:39,740
We've identified for 10, 20, 30 years as a soldier, a police officer, a firefighter.

993
01:01:39,740 --> 01:01:42,860
And for some of those men and women, when they when they move on,

994
01:01:42,860 --> 01:01:44,940
when they retire, when they get hurt, whatever happens,

995
01:01:45,580 --> 01:01:48,780
that's a struggle mentally, you know, identity wise.

996
01:01:49,900 --> 01:01:54,140
What was your transition out of professional MMA like for you?

997
01:01:55,740 --> 01:01:59,100
Oh, well, you know, it's a tough thing, man.

998
01:02:00,300 --> 01:02:02,300
The thing I try to tell people all the time is like,

999
01:02:02,300 --> 01:02:10,460
you know, you go from having something you're working for, chasing, going after,

1000
01:02:10,460 --> 01:02:19,900
you have a reason to, you know, do things for 30 years.

1001
01:02:19,900 --> 01:02:21,420
You know, I've been fought.

1002
01:02:22,940 --> 01:02:29,100
I fought for 20, you know, been did wrestling, football, whatever it was.

1003
01:02:29,100 --> 01:02:32,540
I had something coming up all the time, right.

1004
01:02:32,540 --> 01:02:38,540
And and and then all of a sudden you don't.

1005
01:02:38,540 --> 01:02:45,100
So for me, it was one of those things I didn't have that I always had that thing at the top

1006
01:02:45,100 --> 01:02:52,940
pushing me or controlling me or encouraging me to, you know, make sure I stay on my workout,

1007
01:02:52,940 --> 01:02:53,660
stay doing this.

1008
01:02:53,660 --> 01:02:56,700
So I had I had a driving purpose, right.

1009
01:02:56,700 --> 01:03:01,100
You had that purpose and now it's that's gone.

1010
01:03:01,980 --> 01:03:06,940
And, you know, I think I think a lot of a lot of professions, a lot of different things,

1011
01:03:06,940 --> 01:03:10,220
it's the same same thing that you don't have something.

1012
01:03:10,220 --> 01:03:15,180
There's not a reason you have to do this, especially in, you know, first responder type

1013
01:03:15,740 --> 01:03:17,340
things or military.

1014
01:03:17,340 --> 01:03:22,700
You have a reason to stay in shape, a reason to, you know, to work out a reason to go do

1015
01:03:22,700 --> 01:03:27,020
this or go do that or not do this or not do that.

1016
01:03:27,020 --> 01:03:30,620
And and that reason is not there anymore.

1017
01:03:30,620 --> 01:03:32,540
Now, you know, I was blessed.

1018
01:03:32,540 --> 01:03:34,540
I had a lot of opportunities, a lot of things to do.

1019
01:03:34,540 --> 01:03:41,260
But also, it's a little it's kind of weird position to be in when you don't have anything.

1020
01:03:42,140 --> 01:03:46,940
Was acting kind of the the other element, the thing that the next tribe, if you like,

1021
01:03:46,940 --> 01:03:51,340
next community that you found yourself in that then allowed you to to focus on the

1022
01:03:51,340 --> 01:03:54,940
energy that's helping me?

1023
01:03:54,940 --> 01:04:01,420
Yes, that's one of those things, you know, that allows me to to try to get better at

1024
01:04:01,420 --> 01:04:01,980
something.

1025
01:04:01,980 --> 01:04:06,620
You know, I want I don't want to I don't want to just do it to the cameos and stuff

1026
01:04:06,620 --> 01:04:11,020
was fine when I was doing when I was fighting and stuff.

1027
01:04:11,020 --> 01:04:14,460
But now I want to get better at it and keep getting better.

1028
01:04:14,460 --> 01:04:19,500
And I feel like I am and keep improving every time I go out and and do it.

1029
01:04:19,500 --> 01:04:24,220
So, yeah, it gives me something that's something to shoot for, something to work at.

1030
01:04:24,220 --> 01:04:31,420
And it allows me to stay in the stay in public and so I'm trying to make, you know, help

1031
01:04:31,420 --> 01:04:35,020
people out and do some good things for people.

1032
01:04:35,020 --> 01:04:35,500
Yeah.

1033
01:04:35,500 --> 01:04:38,700
Well, speaking of which, so we talked before the show, you know, tell me about some of

1034
01:04:38,700 --> 01:04:42,220
the work you're doing with some of these veteran nonprofits.

1035
01:04:42,220 --> 01:04:46,700
We had merging vets and players.

1036
01:04:46,700 --> 01:04:51,900
Jake Glazer got that got that started and then and working with those guys has been

1037
01:04:51,900 --> 01:04:52,300
great.

1038
01:04:52,300 --> 01:05:01,900
You know, E3, guys, E3 ranch in Kansas and doing some stuff with them, maybe helping

1039
01:05:01,900 --> 01:05:03,900
some military guys.

1040
01:05:03,900 --> 01:05:11,500
Jared Allen's home, so only warriors in Arizona.

1041
01:05:11,500 --> 01:05:13,100
I've worked with them for a long time.

1042
01:05:13,100 --> 01:05:13,900
Great guy.

1043
01:05:13,900 --> 01:05:17,100
Great organization, helping guys out.

1044
01:05:17,100 --> 01:05:23,100
And I like I like doing things out of the vets and, you know, all the first responders,

1045
01:05:23,100 --> 01:05:29,900
the guys, you know, put their lives on the line for us and to allow us to have the, you

1046
01:05:29,900 --> 01:05:35,100
know, have our rights and our lives.

1047
01:05:35,100 --> 01:05:44,300
You know, I have a peaceful society, mostly peaceful, I guess.

1048
01:05:44,300 --> 01:05:46,300
But yeah.

1049
01:05:46,300 --> 01:05:47,100
Beautiful.

1050
01:05:47,100 --> 01:05:51,100
Well, one more area before we transition some closing questions so I can let you go.

1051
01:05:51,100 --> 01:05:55,500
In a podcast, I listened to you recently on you'd mentioned about getting stem cell

1052
01:05:55,500 --> 01:05:56,300
therapy.

1053
01:05:56,300 --> 01:05:58,700
So now it's been a little bit more time.

1054
01:05:58,700 --> 01:06:01,900
What is your, you know, how did it impact you?

1055
01:06:01,900 --> 01:06:04,700
Did you have success in getting stem cell therapy?

1056
01:06:04,700 --> 01:06:06,300
Did you have success with it?

1057
01:06:06,300 --> 01:06:07,900
Oh, I had a lot of success.

1058
01:06:07,900 --> 01:06:18,300
I had a PCL tear that I never got fixed and that would really help with my, actually,

1059
01:06:18,300 --> 01:06:22,700
my both my shoulders are just wearing tears beat up pretty bad.

1060
01:06:22,700 --> 01:06:31,100
That mean my my shoulder doctor said, you know, it looked like I played in the NFL for

1061
01:06:31,100 --> 01:06:33,100
15 years.

1062
01:06:33,100 --> 01:06:40,300
My shoulders, but but I wasn't able to put my jacket on without someone helping me before

1063
01:06:40,300 --> 01:06:47,500
I went down there and got and then for that for that for the stem cells for that.

1064
01:06:47,500 --> 01:06:52,300
I can tell you that that bioxcellerator really, really hooked me up and they did a great job

1065
01:06:52,300 --> 01:06:55,500
and helped me and then you know, those guys are great.

1066
01:06:55,500 --> 01:07:03,500
If you can make it down to Columbia, the bioxcellerator is amazing.

1067
01:07:03,500 --> 01:07:07,100
Those guys did a great job and then it's very professional down there.

1068
01:07:07,100 --> 01:07:12,700
They do really treat you good and take care of your take care of stuff.

1069
01:07:12,700 --> 01:07:13,500
Beautiful.

1070
01:07:13,500 --> 01:07:16,700
Now that's good to hear because you hear people trying it a lot, but you know, it's still

1071
01:07:16,700 --> 01:07:17,500
somewhat new.

1072
01:07:17,500 --> 01:07:20,300
So to hear people having results, I think is very encouraging.

1073
01:07:20,300 --> 01:07:27,100
Yeah, you know, I talked to someone, one of Tony Robbins guys that does it kind of vets

1074
01:07:27,100 --> 01:07:36,300
out stem cell stuff for him, I think he told but he told me that I asked him, how do I

1075
01:07:36,300 --> 01:07:37,500
tell someone if it works?

1076
01:07:37,500 --> 01:07:39,900
I know from my shoulders, it did wonders.

1077
01:07:39,900 --> 01:07:41,500
I don't know that works.

1078
01:07:41,500 --> 01:07:46,700
And I PCL tell my knee I did really gave me really helped.

1079
01:07:46,700 --> 01:07:54,700
But but like for other things, I don't I mean, I can't I don't know if it works for this

1080
01:07:54,700 --> 01:07:56,700
or for that for other things.

1081
01:07:56,700 --> 01:08:01,500
So I told I asked him, how do I have what I say to people because people call me text

1082
01:08:01,500 --> 01:08:04,700
me, hey, well, if it works that good, I'm going to I'm going to do it.

1083
01:08:04,700 --> 01:08:05,900
But it's really hard on me.

1084
01:08:05,900 --> 01:08:07,100
It's a really hard month.

1085
01:08:07,100 --> 01:08:09,900
I can get the money together, but it's it's going to it's rough.

1086
01:08:09,900 --> 01:08:10,700
I just don't want to do it.

1087
01:08:10,700 --> 01:08:11,500
It's not it's not worth it.

1088
01:08:11,500 --> 01:08:15,500
I actually tell you there's no guarantees for number one, number two.

1089
01:08:15,500 --> 01:08:19,900
But he said he said what he said was try PRP first.

1090
01:08:19,900 --> 01:08:26,700
And if you have any success with PRP PRP like stem cells like PRP on steroids.

1091
01:08:26,700 --> 01:08:33,500
So so that was I thought that was a good way that for people that are trying to figure

1092
01:08:33,500 --> 01:08:35,100
out if they want to do it or not.

1093
01:08:35,100 --> 01:08:41,900
It's a cheaper way to try it out and and and see if if it'll have if they think it might

1094
01:08:41,900 --> 01:08:43,900
have some some lasting effect.

1095
01:08:43,900 --> 01:08:45,500
Beautiful.

1096
01:08:45,500 --> 01:08:50,300
Well, just as you mentioned Tony Robbins, you told a very interesting story about how

1097
01:08:50,300 --> 01:08:52,700
he was brought in.

1098
01:08:52,700 --> 01:08:56,100
Was it John that brought him in to help you after your first loss?

1099
01:08:56,100 --> 01:08:56,700
Is that correct?

1100
01:08:56,700 --> 01:09:01,100
No, after I had first having two losses in a row.

1101
01:09:01,100 --> 01:09:01,500
Okay.

1102
01:09:01,500 --> 01:09:06,700
So tell me what you know what he did with you and then and then if you still continue

1103
01:09:06,700 --> 01:09:07,900
to practice that to this day.

1104
01:09:07,900 --> 01:09:17,100
You know, I think the thing that he did it's hard to explain to stuff he does, but he does

1105
01:09:17,100 --> 01:09:17,900
a lot of great stuff.

1106
01:09:17,900 --> 01:09:22,900
But he's great great people works with people.

1107
01:09:22,900 --> 01:09:30,100
I mean, one of the things that he did with me was he just kind of got me back to realizing

1108
01:09:30,100 --> 01:09:34,500
I mean realizing that you know, it wasn't a big deal.

1109
01:09:34,500 --> 01:09:40,100
You know, it wasn't it was and go out and go back to having going out and having fun

1110
01:09:40,100 --> 01:09:41,900
because that's the way that's what I always did.

1111
01:09:41,900 --> 01:09:45,500
That made me great at fighting as I it was always fun for me.

1112
01:09:45,500 --> 01:09:50,700
I wasn't you know, going to go out and be excited after you turn around.

1113
01:09:50,700 --> 01:09:54,900
I was kind of kind of all over the place a little bit and like, oh man, I'm sure I'd

1114
01:09:54,900 --> 01:09:55,700
be doing this anymore.

1115
01:09:55,700 --> 01:10:01,300
And you know, I think the biggest thing he did for me was a guided meditation and he

1116
01:10:01,300 --> 01:10:06,500
got me go through, you know, the five best moments of my life in that guy.

1117
01:10:06,500 --> 01:10:08,700
Which did that didn't have me say one to him.

1118
01:10:08,700 --> 01:10:13,300
You know, the best moments of your life, basically the top five and at the end of five, he's

1119
01:10:13,300 --> 01:10:18,500
on a tummy not one of those had anything to do with fighting did it.

1120
01:10:18,500 --> 01:10:19,500
So, you know what?

1121
01:10:19,500 --> 01:10:20,900
No, not one.

1122
01:10:20,900 --> 01:10:27,300
And he said, well, then quit worrying about it and go out and have some fun.

1123
01:10:27,300 --> 01:10:28,100
Yep.

1124
01:10:28,100 --> 01:10:28,700
All right.

1125
01:10:28,700 --> 01:10:34,100
That's the best advice I ever had and that was the last fight I won before that.

1126
01:10:34,100 --> 01:10:38,700
So, yeah, he came into my room that night before that fight.

1127
01:10:38,700 --> 01:10:42,500
So, we were in a friendly civil fight.

1128
01:10:42,500 --> 01:10:43,100
Beautiful.

1129
01:10:43,100 --> 01:10:47,900
Now with them, I know in the book you talked about not drinking at all when you were younger.

1130
01:10:47,900 --> 01:10:52,100
It's funny because I this can sound weird to American ears, but I drank till I was 16

1131
01:10:52,100 --> 01:10:54,900
because in England, you know, it's kind of a little more socially acceptable to drink

1132
01:10:54,900 --> 01:10:58,300
with, you know, meals and stuff when you're younger.

1133
01:10:58,300 --> 01:11:03,900
But then I had a, let's just say a bad, you know, over drinking accidental episode and

1134
01:11:03,900 --> 01:11:08,900
I didn't drink through most of the years where my friends started drinking.

1135
01:11:08,900 --> 01:11:13,500
But then you hinted in other interviews about, you know, towards the end of your career,

1136
01:11:13,500 --> 01:11:14,700
you did find yourself drinking.

1137
01:11:14,700 --> 01:11:19,300
So, kind of what was that that mental journey for you where you found yourself kind of off

1138
01:11:19,300 --> 01:11:24,700
the path and then how did you pull yourself back on to where you are today?

1139
01:11:24,700 --> 01:11:34,700
You know, I think, yeah, I mean, I think once I retired and the breaks were off, you know,

1140
01:11:34,700 --> 01:11:41,700
I just was really, I just decided I wasn't, I didn't think I was doing anything wrong,

1141
01:11:41,700 --> 01:11:46,100
but I'd go out and drink, I'd party and I didn't have a reason not to.

1142
01:11:46,100 --> 01:11:50,500
So, it wasn't like before I was out of the fight coming up, I had to go train with somebody,

1143
01:11:50,500 --> 01:11:56,700
I had people I was working out with, I had people I had people to answer to, I had people

1144
01:11:56,700 --> 01:12:00,900
that I was, you know, that I felt like I owed to be there for them.

1145
01:12:00,900 --> 01:12:05,400
And, you know, when I was retired, I didn't have anything else, it was really easy to

1146
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:12,300
get going and it started, you know, it didn't last long, but that's where I was drinking

1147
01:12:12,300 --> 01:12:18,100
three or four times a week and then it started going and, you know, and actually one night

1148
01:12:18,100 --> 01:12:24,700
I was, long story, hard to explain, but I ended up, I was supposed to meet up with my

1149
01:12:24,700 --> 01:12:31,700
now wife and ended up just not being able to figure out how to, so drunk, I didn't figure

1150
01:12:31,700 --> 01:12:39,100
out how to get, like call up to her room from the from the keypad in front of her apartment

1151
01:12:39,100 --> 01:12:46,500
and I was like, you know, and then got myself out of that with her, but decided not to drink

1152
01:12:46,500 --> 01:12:51,500
for a year and took off drinking for a whole year and just then I just kind of now got

1153
01:12:51,500 --> 01:12:58,100
to back to drinking when I'm here and there when I want to, you know, not a big deal anymore,

1154
01:12:58,100 --> 01:13:06,300
but I just kind of needed that wake up call, you know, to not, you know, you know, you're

1155
01:13:06,300 --> 01:13:11,500
free, you don't have to have any responsibilities, but you might want to stand a little more

1156
01:13:11,500 --> 01:13:16,500
controlled than that, but I think that was part of the thing of just having everything

1157
01:13:16,500 --> 01:13:21,420
released, like, you know, I didn't have to be back in the gym, I didn't have to do, you

1158
01:13:21,420 --> 01:13:26,500
know, this or that, you know, it was just, oh, I'm going to have some fun, you know,

1159
01:13:26,500 --> 01:13:31,060
I deserve it, I earned it, you know, well, at some point you've got to get back to doing

1160
01:13:31,060 --> 01:13:35,900
something else or you know, get motivated another way.

1161
01:13:35,900 --> 01:13:40,060
Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that because I think it's very, very, very important and

1162
01:13:40,060 --> 01:13:41,860
parallel to many of our journeys.

1163
01:13:41,860 --> 01:13:42,940
I mean, I can say the same thing.

1164
01:13:42,940 --> 01:13:47,580
I never drank to get, you know, shit-faced for lack of a better word, but I found what

1165
01:13:47,580 --> 01:13:52,500
the frequency of my alcohol consumption post-retirement, you know, went up and it really reminds me

1166
01:13:52,500 --> 01:13:55,020
of your story chasing your son up the stairs.

1167
01:13:55,020 --> 01:13:59,220
It's like you have to monitor yourself and when you get that warning sign, be able to

1168
01:13:59,220 --> 01:14:03,460
draw it back in before it goes too far and then you're way too, you know, you've got

1169
01:14:03,460 --> 01:14:05,820
a lot of work then to get yourself back from there.

1170
01:14:05,820 --> 01:14:08,020
Yeah, that's exactly.

1171
01:14:08,020 --> 01:14:11,460
Brilliant, all right, well, I want to be mindful of your time.

1172
01:14:11,460 --> 01:14:16,140
So I want to switch to some closing questions so I can let you go, especially on today's

1173
01:14:16,140 --> 01:14:18,420
big day where Connor and Dustin are fighting.

1174
01:14:18,420 --> 01:14:22,180
So thank you again for doing the interview on that day.

1175
01:14:22,180 --> 01:14:27,020
So the first question I'd love to ask, you have a biography, it's named Iceman, which

1176
01:14:27,020 --> 01:14:29,580
I read and is phenomenal to everyone listening out there.

1177
01:14:29,580 --> 01:14:33,180
I urge you to read that to truly get the full story.

1178
01:14:33,180 --> 01:14:36,180
Are there any other books that you love to recommend to people?

1179
01:14:36,180 --> 01:14:40,100
It can be related to what we've discussed today or something completely different.

1180
01:14:40,100 --> 01:14:50,420
Yeah, I've been reading the Bible a lot more lately, but other than that, you know.

1181
01:14:50,420 --> 01:14:52,140
Yeah, no problem.

1182
01:14:52,140 --> 01:14:53,140
The Bible's a great answer.

1183
01:14:53,140 --> 01:14:54,140
We'll stick with that.

1184
01:14:54,140 --> 01:14:58,500
All right, so then the next question I'd like to ask is a movie or a documentary that you

1185
01:14:58,500 --> 01:14:59,500
recommend.

1186
01:14:59,500 --> 01:15:03,060
Now before we get to the answer, so you had Cage Fighter come out last year, so I want

1187
01:15:03,060 --> 01:15:07,780
to make people aware of that and then also the 30 for 30 Chuck and Tito I thought was

1188
01:15:07,780 --> 01:15:10,300
an incredible documentary as well.

1189
01:15:10,300 --> 01:15:15,780
Yeah, those guys did a great job of covering a lot of complex issues in a short period

1190
01:15:15,780 --> 01:15:18,780
of time as best they could.

1191
01:15:18,780 --> 01:15:21,980
I mean, I thought it came across really well.

1192
01:15:21,980 --> 01:15:23,340
All right, next question.

1193
01:15:23,340 --> 01:15:28,620
Is there a person you'd recommend to come on this podcast to talk to the first responders,

1194
01:15:28,620 --> 01:15:33,180
military and associated professionals of the world as a guest?

1195
01:15:33,180 --> 01:15:34,860
I mean, I knew this guy.

1196
01:15:34,860 --> 01:15:36,860
Jared Allen would be great.

1197
01:15:36,860 --> 01:15:39,860
Get him on there.

1198
01:15:39,860 --> 01:15:42,860
He's a good dude.

1199
01:15:42,860 --> 01:15:44,860
Good for people.

1200
01:15:44,860 --> 01:15:49,540
Adam Lemos, another one, a friend of mine, this guy from E3.

1201
01:15:49,540 --> 01:15:58,420
Those guys are not only supporters but helping vets quite a bit.

1202
01:15:58,420 --> 01:16:01,020
So they'd be good guys to talk to.

1203
01:16:01,020 --> 01:16:02,020
Perfect.

1204
01:16:02,020 --> 01:16:03,020
Thank you so much.

1205
01:16:03,020 --> 01:16:05,380
All right, then the last question before we make sure everyone knows where to find you

1206
01:16:05,380 --> 01:16:06,380
online.

1207
01:16:06,380 --> 01:16:08,540
What do you do to decompress these days?

1208
01:16:08,540 --> 01:16:17,620
I still, to be honest, to decompress, I still hit the bag, do jiu-jitsu, hit the bag, roll

1209
01:16:17,620 --> 01:16:22,180
a spar, anything I have to do with martial arts.

1210
01:16:22,180 --> 01:16:31,420
That's my happy place where I get the time I can shut my mind down and just think about

1211
01:16:31,420 --> 01:16:32,420
that.

1212
01:16:32,420 --> 01:16:33,420
Love it.

1213
01:16:33,420 --> 01:16:35,660
All right, well then, very last question then.

1214
01:16:35,660 --> 01:16:40,020
If people want to reach out to you, find you, follow you online, where are the best places

1215
01:16:40,020 --> 01:16:41,020
these days?

1216
01:16:41,020 --> 01:16:48,020
It's at Chuck Liddell on most of the social media like Twitter or Instagram.

1217
01:16:48,020 --> 01:16:54,980
I think we're going to get chuckliddell.com running up and running again soon.

1218
01:16:54,980 --> 01:16:59,540
But it's kind of, we haven't been doing that for a while.

1219
01:16:59,540 --> 01:17:02,500
But we're going to get running again soon because I got some, a few things coming up.

1220
01:17:02,500 --> 01:17:07,140
I'm going to probably start a podcast sometime later this year.

1221
01:17:07,140 --> 01:17:14,940
And we also have a, I'm going to put a show out, No Trucks Given, which is going to be

1222
01:17:14,940 --> 01:17:20,580
more like a, it's kind of like a travel show, but just me doing what I like to do, things

1223
01:17:20,580 --> 01:17:23,740
I like to do and showing you the area I'm at, where I'm doing it.

1224
01:17:23,740 --> 01:17:25,300
So it should be pretty interesting.

1225
01:17:25,300 --> 01:17:27,500
It should be some fun stuff.

1226
01:17:27,500 --> 01:17:28,500
Beautiful.

1227
01:17:28,500 --> 01:17:32,380
All right, well, Chuck, I want to say thank you so much for you to take time out of your

1228
01:17:32,380 --> 01:17:36,820
day, especially today, which is a big fight day and obviously your family in the background.

1229
01:17:36,820 --> 01:17:38,780
So I'm taking you from them too.

1230
01:17:38,780 --> 01:17:42,540
I truly, truly appreciate you taking the time to speak to the audience today.

1231
01:17:42,540 --> 01:17:43,540
So thank you so much.

1232
01:17:43,540 --> 01:17:45,540
Yeah, my pleasure, man.

1233
01:17:45,540 --> 01:18:13,540
Thank you.