1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,540 This episode is brought to you by Bubs Naturals 2 00:00:02,540 --> 00:00:04,600 and one of the most profound new supplements 3 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,080 I've added to my own diet is collagen. 4 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,320 And Bubs provides the only collagen 5 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:11,600 that is not only NSF certified, 6 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,160 but also Whole30 certified. 7 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:15,300 Now when we think of collagen, 8 00:00:15,300 --> 00:00:16,760 you might think of beauty products, 9 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,280 but when ingested, collagen not only positively affects 10 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,680 skin, nails, and hair, but also joint and gut health. 11 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,620 Something that I witnessed personally within myself. 12 00:00:27,620 --> 00:00:30,960 Now I'm also a huge fan of altruistic business 13 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,520 and Bubz was founded out of tragedy. 14 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,600 Glenn Bub Doherty was one of the two Navy SEALs 15 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,400 killed in Benghazi. 16 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,560 And his friends, Sean and TJ founded this company 17 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,080 to not only create great nutritional products, 18 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,640 but also take 10% of the proceeds 19 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,280 and donate them to charity. 20 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:49,820 So they are offering you the audience 21 00:00:49,820 --> 00:00:51,300 of the Behind the Shield podcast, 22 00:00:51,300 --> 00:00:53,840 20% off your first purchase 23 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,920 if you use the code SHIELD at bubznaturals.com. 24 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,240 And if you wanna hear more about the inception of Bubz 25 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,240 and Glenn's powerful story, 26 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,320 listen to episode 558 of Behind the Shield podcast 27 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:09,000 with Sean Lake. 28 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,400 This episode is sponsored by a company I've used 29 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,040 for well over a decade and that is 5-11. 30 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,840 I wore their uniforms back in Anaheim, California 31 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,280 and I've used their products ever since. 32 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,540 From their incredibly strong yet light footwear 33 00:01:24,540 --> 00:01:28,600 to their cut uniforms for both male and female responders, 34 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,360 I found them hands down the best workwear 35 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,600 in all the departments that I've worked for. 36 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,200 Outside of the fire service, 37 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,200 I use their luggage for everything and I travel a lot 38 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,560 and they are also now sponsoring the 7X team 39 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,400 as we embark around the world 40 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,460 on the Human Performance Project. 41 00:01:45,460 --> 00:01:47,440 We have Murph coming up in May 42 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,760 and again, I bought their plate carrier. 43 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:51,840 I ended up buying real ballistic plates 44 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,120 rather than the fake weight plates 45 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:55,680 and that has been my ride or die 46 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,360 through Murph the last few years as well. 47 00:01:58,360 --> 00:01:59,720 One area I wanna talk about 48 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:01,880 that I haven't in previous sponsorship spots 49 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,260 is their brick and mortar element. 50 00:02:04,260 --> 00:02:06,360 They were predominantly an online company 51 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:07,720 up till more recently, 52 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,680 but now they are approaching 100 stores all over the US. 53 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,080 My local store is here in Gainesville, Florida 54 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,180 and I've been multiple times. 55 00:02:16,180 --> 00:02:17,800 And the discounts you see online 56 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,000 are applied also in the stores. 57 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:20,920 So as I mentioned, 58 00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:25,920 511 is offering you 15% off every purchase that you make, 59 00:02:26,500 --> 00:02:28,880 but I do wanna say more often than not, 60 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:30,800 they have an even deeper discount, 61 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,320 especially around holiday times. 62 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,120 But if you use the code SHIELD15, 63 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,440 that's S-H-I-E-L-D-1-5, 64 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,920 you will get 15% off your order 65 00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:45,120 or in the stores every time you make a purchase. 66 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,560 And if you wanna hear more about 511, 67 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,280 who they stand for and who works with them, 68 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,000 listen to episode 580 of Behind the Shield podcast 69 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,460 with 511 regional director, Will Ayers. 70 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:00,520 Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. 71 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:01,920 As always, my name is James Gearing 72 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:03,600 and this week it is my absolute honor 73 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:08,600 to welcome on the show veteran firefighter, Steve Sakaguchi. 74 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,280 Now in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics. 75 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,740 From the Japanese intern camps in America 76 00:03:15,740 --> 00:03:19,640 during World War II, growing up in a restaurant industry, 77 00:03:19,640 --> 00:03:22,160 his journey into the fire service, 78 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,720 some of his own leadership failures, 79 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,780 his journey to find the great leaders 80 00:03:26,780 --> 00:03:28,920 outside the fire service, 81 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:31,600 the application of the skills he learned, 82 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,320 how to build a training department and so much more. 83 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,360 Now before we get to this incredible conversation, 84 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,180 as I say every week, please just take a moment, 85 00:03:40,180 --> 00:03:42,380 go to whichever app you listen to this on, 86 00:03:42,380 --> 00:03:46,960 subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating. 87 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:48,840 Every single five star rating 88 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,000 truly does elevate this podcast, 89 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,600 therefore making it easier for others to find. 90 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:58,600 And this is a free library of over 900 episodes now. 91 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,300 So all I ask in return is that you help share 92 00:04:02,300 --> 00:04:04,720 these incredible men and women stories 93 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,360 so I can get them to every single person 94 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,080 on planet earth who needs to hear them. 95 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,240 So with that being said, I introduce to you 96 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,860 Steve Sakaguchi, enjoy. 97 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,360 ["Skyfall"] 98 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,080 Well Steve, I wanna start by saying thank you so much 99 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:39,040 firstly for your patience, 100 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:40,680 we originally supposed to do this a few weeks ago 101 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:42,640 and we rescheduled because I had to take care 102 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,000 of some family stuff. 103 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,360 And secondly, I wanna welcome you 104 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,280 to the Behind the Shield podcast today. 105 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:49,480 Thanks so much, James. 106 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,560 You know, it's awesome to be here 107 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,440 and I really appreciate the invite 108 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,520 and no worries about the delay, 109 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,600 like so much has happened just in that short four weeks. 110 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,600 So I'm just happy to be here 111 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,280 and hopefully the listeners can find some value 112 00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:05,920 through our conversation. 113 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,040 So where on planet earth we finding you this afternoon? 114 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:13,920 Well, we are finding me in Milano, Oregon, 115 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:18,080 technically Cambie, but in the little hamlet of Milano. 116 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,280 So I'm sitting at our kitchen table 117 00:05:20,280 --> 00:05:24,200 on what we would call our tiny Milano farm. 118 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,120 And so, but first wanna back up. 119 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,560 I really wanna give a shout out to two people, 120 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,360 first to Brian McKender. 121 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,400 Brian McKender is, as I would say, 122 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:38,920 is probably the reason that, you know, 123 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,680 you and I are having this conversation today. 124 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:45,760 Several years ago, he turned me on to your podcast, 125 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,760 probably right in the beginning, 2017, I wanna say. 126 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,960 And he's been just such an integral part of my journey 127 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,680 as a friend, as being part of our peer support team. 128 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,400 Sometimes I joke about him being my personal peer support. 129 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:05,400 He's kind of a quiet challenger, very quiet way about him. 130 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,360 I didn't realize that deep down he's very competitive. 131 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,200 And so throughout the years, 132 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,000 we kind of joke about the different books 133 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,080 and things that we do when we joke about 134 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,360 pushing each other off the ledge and into the unknown. 135 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:18,720 And so here we are. 136 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,840 So I wanna make sure that recognize Brian 137 00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:22,640 for his contribution to this. 138 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,600 And then also, I really wanna give shout out to you. 139 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,120 And maybe it's more than two now that I'm talking through 140 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,760 about you and your family and all the other guests. 141 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,920 I don't know how many people know the sacrifice 142 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:36,720 that you and your family have made 143 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:41,400 to really put together this phenomenal resource, 144 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:46,120 free resource, which is why I will always be a supporter 145 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:47,280 of what you're doing. 146 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:51,080 You gave up a lot by walking away from the fire service 147 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,400 to focus on this, to bring us this resource 148 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:55,840 for us to try to implement 149 00:06:55,840 --> 00:06:58,320 and to make the fire service in the world 150 00:06:58,320 --> 00:06:59,160 even a better place. 151 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,320 So I wanna make sure I recognize you for that. 152 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:03,240 Well, thank you. 153 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:04,080 Thank you so much. 154 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,400 Yeah, I mean, it's the whole force multiplier thing. 155 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:07,720 I mean, it's worked out so well, 156 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,280 but again, you and all the people 157 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:11,440 that have come on the show, 158 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,640 obviously provide this incredible library. 159 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,000 And then everyone that hits play, 160 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,000 listens that becomes part of this community 161 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:19,160 and tells other people about it. 162 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,080 So I'm amazed and in awe of how this community 163 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,720 is swollen to literally millions of people listening. 164 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:27,920 I don't know if it's all the same people 165 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,480 or different people, but yeah, it's pretty amazing to see. 166 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,160 So thank you so much for that. 167 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:34,000 Incredible. 168 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,360 Yeah, you're welcome. 169 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:36,600 Well, let's get back to you. 170 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,680 So let's start the very beginning of your timeline. 171 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:41,000 Tell me where you were born 172 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,960 and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, 173 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,320 what your parents did, how many siblings. 174 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,040 Yeah, so I was actually born up in Seattle, Washington. 175 00:07:50,580 --> 00:07:52,120 My dad, Steve. 176 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:56,000 I'm not a junior, although one of the crews found out 177 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,800 here recently what my middle name was 178 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,240 and that's Steven Tyler. 179 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,720 And so we always joke about if my parents 180 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,760 were truly Aerosmith fans or not. 181 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,560 They claim no, but I guess the jury stopped. 182 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:13,560 So Steven Tyler, my dad, Steve, and he, 183 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:17,480 it's interesting, his life started out 184 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,600 being put kind of in hiding. 185 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,560 So he was actually interned right after he was born. 186 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,840 And so he spent the first probably three years 187 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:30,240 of his life in the internment camps. 188 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,560 And maybe we'd come back to that a little later. 189 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:37,560 And then he went on to serve in the US Air Force, 190 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,760 rose to the ranks of captain on B-52s. 191 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,400 And then he was a medical salesman for 20 something years 192 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:46,080 with Gould and Spectrum Ed. 193 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,320 And then somewhere along the line, 194 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,280 he decided he wanted to own his own business, 195 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:52,360 be a business owner. 196 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,200 And so he walked away from the sales staff. 197 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,840 He got into a registered applicant program 198 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,520 through my uncle who had worked in construction 199 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,960 at McDonald's and the construction division 200 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,240 and engineering and whatnot. 201 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:08,480 And so he entered in this program 202 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,280 and he went through a McDonald's training program 203 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,480 to become an owner operator. 204 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,520 And so that's what he ended up doing 205 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,920 for the better part of the rest of his time working 206 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:21,760 until they retired. 207 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,760 Oh, gosh, it's gotta be about five, six years, 208 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,600 seven years now. 209 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:27,600 So that's my dad. 210 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,040 And then my mom, Annie, was actually born in Japan. 211 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,800 And she came over when she was 10 212 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,880 and was adopted by her aunt. 213 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,040 But the person that I knew as grandma, 214 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,080 Grandma Stokes was actually her aunt. 215 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,520 And she spent time in Seattle. 216 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,880 She went to UW, both actually are UW alumni. 217 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,480 But then later on, they became diehard Dutch fans. 218 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:57,480 And so UW got a master's in nursing. 219 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,280 She went in to be a Navy nurse. 220 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,640 And then when she came out of the service, 221 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,040 she ended up working in human resources, 222 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:08,440 which is kind of ironic. 223 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:09,800 I know we'll get to that a little later, 224 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,760 but she worked for group health up in Bellevue. 225 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:17,240 And then once we moved down here to Oregon, 226 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,600 following the business, she worked for Legacy Health Systems 227 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,840 as a senior vice president in NHR. 228 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,440 And then my sister, who has since passed, 229 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,840 she died in 17, older sister, 230 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,720 she was developmentally disabled. 231 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:38,680 I'd probably estimate that. 232 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:40,840 She probably matured mentally 233 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,800 to the age of about eight, maybe 10. 234 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,800 So that provided some different kind of learning, 235 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,880 maybe life experience growing up and different things. 236 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,880 So that's kind of the start where I started up in Seattle. 237 00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:03,440 And then in 91, when I was 11, 238 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,040 that's when we purchased our first McDonald's. 239 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:12,040 And that was, it's so crazy how we go 240 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,480 kind of not really full circle, but how it all works out. 241 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:19,480 But that McDonald's is actually in a fire district, 242 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,320 and it's not a McDonald's anymore, 243 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,360 but it was the fifth McDonald's 244 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:26,960 that was built in the state of Oregon 245 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,760 and the 499th in the system. 246 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:33,360 So McDonald's has, they number all their restaurants 247 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:34,200 kind of in order. 248 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,960 So it was store number 499, 249 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,800 and it's actually now the all that glitters. 250 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,800 And so what's fascinating is when I was stationed 251 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,080 at station three in Oak Grove, 252 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,680 I knew that building inside and out, full basement, 253 00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:51,400 only access through the back and all that, 254 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,800 because I had spent three, four years 255 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:58,800 every evening, weekend, whatever, working in that building. 256 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:03,840 So I'll pause there for a second. 257 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,400 Well, let's go to internment camps first. 258 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,400 So your father, I'm assuming is Japanese American then, 259 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:15,400 the war breaks out and now a member of society, 260 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,800 one of the Americans is now ushered into camps 261 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,320 along with a lot of other, arguably probably Asians, 262 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,040 probably some of them weren't even Japanese, 263 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:29,040 but thinking about how we, how undiverse we were back then. 264 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,400 So what does he talk about? 265 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,000 Tell me the stories of that time, 266 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,840 because I think it's another dark, dark, 267 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,920 darker side of our history. 268 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,960 And we get obviously the knee jerk initially of, 269 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:41,960 who is the enemy? 270 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,360 However, the way it was handled, 271 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,960 I think was arguably not the best. 272 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:47,480 And what a great question. 273 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:52,160 And he doesn't really talk a lot about it. 274 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,240 It's come out in some of our text messages. 275 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:02,240 We hosted a exchange student a few years ago, 276 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,360 and we actually went down to Tule Lake, 277 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,800 which is where he was interned. 278 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:11,800 And it was pretty wild because there was 279 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,640 some family legend, folklore, whatever, 280 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:16,720 you hear things like, is that really true? 281 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:21,720 And one of them was, had he not gone into hiding 282 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,560 or had his mom not been able to hide, 283 00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:26,480 and I'll maybe speak to more of those details 284 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,800 here in a second, he would have been the first 285 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,760 Japanese American born in the internment camps. 286 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,320 And so, I was like, is that really for real? 287 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,520 And so we were down at Tule Lake, 288 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,120 and they have the registry. 289 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:47,120 And so we saw the names of him and my grandma in the book. 290 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,440 And then as we're walking through the small display there, 291 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:55,440 there's a picture on the wall of the first child born 292 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,080 in the internment camps. 293 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,480 And I'm looking at it, and I'm looking at the date. 294 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,760 And the date is June 12th, 42. 295 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,480 And it hit me, I go, oh my gosh, 296 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,720 my dad's birthday is June 9th, 42. 297 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,760 So that's more than likely, that's a pretty historic. 298 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,200 And so I sent that picture to my dad. 299 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,920 And so he, and that's when he'll, 300 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,320 he's a phenomenal writer. 301 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,840 And so he'll write, sometimes text should maybe be an email, 302 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,920 but that's another story. 303 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,560 And so he wrote back about his namesake. 304 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,200 And so his middle name is Royal, 305 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,520 and it's namesake is after Royal Post. 306 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,640 And he was a very prominent businessman 307 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,880 up in the Seattle area. 308 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,640 And my grandma was a housekeeper for him. 309 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,040 It was a clean house from pre-mend. 310 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,600 And so of course, the order comes out 311 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,840 to round up all the Japanese Americans, the enemies, 312 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,320 and let's ship them off. 313 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:05,160 And he comes in, tells the authorities, says, 314 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,040 no, God's son of mine is gonna be born 315 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,320 in a concentration camp. 316 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,440 And so essentially kept them protected 317 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:13,680 until my dad was born. 318 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,640 And then at which time they went to the camps. 319 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,840 So he doesn't talk about it much, 320 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,560 but there are some letters, I guess, 321 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,840 that the family has written by my grandma. 322 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:29,840 And I haven't read them yet. 323 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:34,720 I haven't seen all of them yet that speak to her fears 324 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,600 and the vaccinations and the things that they're doing 325 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,280 that she's convinced they're doing these studies 326 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,400 and trials on her son and things like that. 327 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:44,920 So pretty interesting. 328 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:49,240 And then just this last year, 329 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,480 my father-in-law actually found out 330 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,840 that through the National Japanese American Museum, 331 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:01,840 they have a book of essentially almost all of the names 332 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,480 of the people who were interned. 333 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:06,640 And they had it on exhibit. 334 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:11,640 So for spring break last year, we all went 335 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:17,600 and my in-laws, mother-in-law, father-in-law came with us. 336 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,360 And so we visited that museum and walked through it. 337 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,360 And there's very few times I've seen my father emotional, 338 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:31,520 but as we're walking in, you can actually schedule time 339 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,000 and they will go and find the names of your, 340 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,160 of who was interned, your family, or in his case, him also. 341 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,200 And so we went and we were able to be with him 342 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,320 as he placed the stamp by his name, his father's name 343 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,280 and his mother's name, and then walked through the exhibit 344 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,560 and then just looking at, 345 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,720 in all the different places where the camps were, 346 00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,960 there were some other internees that were there. 347 00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:04,520 And I could overhear one gentleman just talking about, 348 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:09,360 you know, he was, gosh, he must have been in his late 80s, 349 00:17:09,360 --> 00:17:14,360 maybe, and just talking about it as if it was yesterday, 350 00:17:14,360 --> 00:17:17,320 looking at the picture and remembering walking to 351 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,120 and from the different buildings. 352 00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:24,120 And so I remember just kind of soaking it all in. 353 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,120 And at one point I remember looking at all the baggage 354 00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:30,880 in some of the pictures and I got to reflecting like, 355 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,760 there's people that were my age, the age that I am now, 356 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,360 that this war breaks out and the government says, 357 00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:41,080 you are now the enemy, 358 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,200 even though you were born in this country. 359 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:45,720 And we got to take everything away from you 360 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:47,080 and send you to a camp. 361 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:48,720 And I just remember thinking about that. 362 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,920 What would that be like right now? 363 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,920 What would that be like for our kids and for us? 364 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,240 Just pretty fascinating. 365 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,600 And then of course that exhibit is just right by 366 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,400 the 242nd, it goes for broke, 367 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,240 all made up of the Mise soldiers that fought. 368 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,000 And there's just these quotes about how they were fighting 369 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,840 two different groups of people, 370 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,000 there's just these quotes about how they were fighting 371 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,360 two wars, they're fighting a war across the Pacific 372 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:24,440 for the country, but then they're also fighting a war at home. 373 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:29,440 And so there's not a ton that he really talks about 374 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,920 or really that I can recall that he remembers. 375 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,920 And my grandma passed away in, what was it, 1998 maybe, 376 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,720 and she didn't ever really talk about it. 377 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:48,720 But we do somewhere have the letter that George Bush had, 378 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,560 typical form letter and other reparations 379 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:58,560 and the apology for the wrong that was done and the dollar, 380 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,000 here's what we're giving you for taking away your stuff. 381 00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:11,040 You mentioned about the letter and your grandma's fears 382 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,120 about vaccinations, educate me, 383 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:15,400 was that actually going on in the camps? 384 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,520 You know, I don't know, I haven't done, 385 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:23,520 sadly, I haven't done a ton of research on it. 386 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,200 I don't know why, maybe it's just, 387 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,920 I'm not in that season of life yet, 388 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,280 but I do feel like at some point I do owe it 389 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,080 just to know the history, to kind of research 390 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,560 and really kind of understand all the little intricacies. 391 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,920 And every now and then my dad will send 392 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,800 different articles and things about people 393 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,920 who have written different essays and stuff 394 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,480 about all the other politics and how, 395 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,720 depending on with the interracial marriages, 396 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,600 there's differences in how you were treated 397 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:02,360 if you were the male married to a white female 398 00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:05,280 or vice versa and how you could or could not go 399 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:06,120 in different places. 400 00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:09,840 There's all sorts of these little complex issues 401 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:11,080 that are around it. 402 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,160 So at some point, I'd probably start digging 403 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:15,720 into more of that history, 404 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,360 but I'm just not really in that season yet. 405 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,760 You know, one of the other things that came to mind 406 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,800 just kind of thinking on it is, 407 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,960 I didn't know, but Tule Lake was actually the camp 408 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,960 that they sent all the other kind of trouble internees to. 409 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,920 And so not only were you at, 410 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:42,880 just a camp to begin with, now you're at the camp 411 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,000 where they send the bad behaving internees 412 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,760 from the other camps to this camp too. 413 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,000 So that was another little tidbit 414 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,440 that I learned along the way as well. 415 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,480 It can be hard to be a good behaving intern 416 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,360 after you've just been taken in your own country 417 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:02,520 and put in a big prison. 418 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:03,720 So. 419 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:04,640 Right. 420 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,200 Exactly, exactly. 421 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:08,760 All right, well then moving on, 422 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:10,920 as you progress through, 423 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,080 well actually let me go back for a second. 424 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:14,920 I wanted to ask you this. 425 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:19,360 I just watched The Founder on the plane a few weeks ago 426 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:23,000 and it's the Michael Keaton film about, 427 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,720 obviously this is not the owner, 428 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,440 the restaurant owners of McDonald's, 429 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,880 but the origin story about the two, you know, 430 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,080 owners of a restaurant that made incredible burgers 431 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,520 and, you know, engineered their kitchen 432 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,600 and how their work was hijacked by an unethical businessman 433 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,720 who then went around, you know, the country 434 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,720 and ultimately the world peddling their idea, 435 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,720 you know, under the guise of it being his. 436 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:49,200 So what, from an owner's perspective, 437 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,200 what was your dad's experience with the restaurant itself? 438 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,640 The restaurant itself was pretty good. 439 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,840 You know, the system of franchisee, 440 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,120 it's a pretty sound business model. 441 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,160 You know, the way that it works 442 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,200 is the company owns the building 443 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,520 and then the owner operator will own the equipment 444 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,280 and everything in it. 445 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,000 And there's actually a rent that is paid 446 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,720 and it's all based off percentages, 447 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,240 you know, off gross sales and things, 448 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:21,960 and maybe things have changed now, 449 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,800 it's been a while since it's been in the system, but, 450 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,680 and so, and it was very tight controlled 451 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,720 as far as standards. 452 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,880 And so, and a lot of this bleeds over 453 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,320 to the way I see things and the way I look at things 454 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,160 and how sometimes the, 455 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:40,600 we'll figure it out when we get there 456 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,560 really is a challenge for me 457 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,400 or how there's 17 different ways to throw a ladder. 458 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,840 And so the McDonald's system is pretty regimented 459 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,040 and strict, you have approved vendors, 460 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:55,640 you have approved equipment, 461 00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:00,080 like they control where you get all your product 462 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,880 and all the things like that. 463 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,280 So it's very standardized. 464 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,880 The training programs, you know, I would say, 465 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,960 are pretty much second to none. 466 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,960 There's one way to assemble a hamburger and a cheeseburger, 467 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,960 just one way, and everything is calculated out 468 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,560 because it's all tied to profit or loss 469 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:21,960 and all these other controllables. 470 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,440 So everything is scripted out. 471 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,240 You know, you can just come in 472 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,160 with no experience whatsoever 473 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,880 and you will learn how to assemble 474 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,280 whatever sandwich you're supposed to assemble 475 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:34,920 or drink or whatever, 476 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,840 they'll teach you how to do it without missing a step. 477 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,440 And so it's pretty fascinating 478 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,280 to see how that has transitioned over 479 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,480 as I've gone on different adventures and things. 480 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,360 But when it comes to change, 481 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,320 just like I think a lot of corporations 482 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,160 and just, we just evolve as a society. 483 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,400 We just evolve as a society. 484 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,920 We just do changes inevitable. 485 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,960 But sometimes we don't think about, 486 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,040 or maybe we do, but it's a necessary change, 487 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,200 the impacts that that has both financially, 488 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,200 to the owner operators. 489 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,400 Because once McDonald's corporate decides to make a change, 490 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:19,800 hey, we're gonna go this way. 491 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:20,880 Well, now the owner operators 492 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,440 have to purchase all of that equipment 493 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,920 and then also have to figure out 494 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,400 what they're gonna do with all the remaining stuff. 495 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:33,040 So I can remember having storage beds 496 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,680 that go into the storage units 497 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,360 and there's old retired out sauce guns 498 00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:41,600 and the different trep tables and all these things 499 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:43,280 because the systems change, 500 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,360 so we gotta redo everything. 501 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:47,840 And then just like with some stuff, 502 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,840 things go full circle from, 503 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,520 hey, we're gonna steam the filet of fish bun. 504 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:55,360 No, we're not. 505 00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:56,360 Okay, now we are again. 506 00:24:56,360 --> 00:25:01,080 And so there's this, tends to be this full circle effect. 507 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:02,760 So that's just life. 508 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,200 And I think maybe having grown up in that 509 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,960 and just seeing that and just saying, 510 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,600 well, what's our options? 511 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,520 We either do or we don't. 512 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,600 And then McDonald's has pretty tight, 513 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,720 at least at the time, pretty tight expectations 514 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,680 about how they want their owner operators 515 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:25,000 and restaurants to perform. 516 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,680 And if you're not cutting it, 517 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,160 then they're not gonna allow you to continue 518 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:31,560 to be an owner operator 519 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,760 and run the business into the ground. 520 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,640 So it's pretty fascinating. 521 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:45,520 We'd be evaluated, I wanna say, four times a year 522 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,680 in addition to the mystery shoppers 523 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,360 that just come in and check. 524 00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:55,160 So there's benchmarks for everything. 525 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,000 How long you sit at the order taking window, 526 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,120 how long it takes for you to get your money exchanged 527 00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:06,040 and then how long it takes you to get your food. 528 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,360 So everything's on a stopwatch and timed. 529 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,040 So they would do unannounced short reviews. 530 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,680 They do announced short reviews and they do, 531 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,080 I mean, it's just three and then a long review full day. 532 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,680 And as the restaurant manager or the owner, 533 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,640 you are with your field consultant for that. 534 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,200 You can step in and really help you. 535 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:33,120 You had to watch how your restaurant was performing 536 00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:37,520 through the busiest times, open, close and all that stuff 537 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,080 and watch how the transitions happen from, 538 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,920 this was before you could have breakfast all day, huge win, 539 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,480 but when you actually had to switch 540 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,840 between breakfast and lunch. 541 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,480 And then of course, somebody always comes in 542 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,760 half an hour late wanting something for breakfast. 543 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,800 And it's our fault that we didn't have that. 544 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,840 But anyways, I digress. 545 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,880 Well, just shifting slightly as well, it's interesting. 546 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,640 Like I said, some of the practices 547 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,080 that were portrayed in the film, 548 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,640 which is not the owners of the restaurant, 549 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,720 it's behind the scenes I was unaware of. 550 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,000 And like you said, the real estate element, 551 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,800 that's where they make their money. 552 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,080 Apparently they, I think, I forget how they phrase it. 553 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,400 They said they own more real estate in the US than anyone. 554 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,160 I don't know if they meant like, 555 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,120 in urban and suburban settings or how exactly that works, 556 00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:25,000 but they have a lot. 557 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,560 They do tons of market studies. 558 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,600 And so they actually do all the hard work 559 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:31,720 for the competitors. 560 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:32,960 So really all you have to do is, 561 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,240 wherever you see McDonald's pop, 562 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:35,800 just put your restaurant right there 563 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,800 because they've already done all of the research 564 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:39,640 and whatnot. 565 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,040 That's kind of what the joke was, 566 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:42,800 is just let them figure it out. 567 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,800 So you have an Asian background as far as your family. 568 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,800 You get into McDonald's, what were you eating yourself, 569 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,040 you and your family through the years prior 570 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,080 and then when you got involved into hamburgers? 571 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,120 Oh man. 572 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,600 Growing up, every meal had rice, 573 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,000 regardless of what the main dish was. 574 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:12,000 So that always makes for some funny times, 575 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,920 like everything had rice. 576 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,360 My mom on certain special holidays 577 00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:19,600 would make like a sukiyaki dish. 578 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,360 So it's kind of like a ramen with beef 579 00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:26,920 and a soup base. 580 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,360 She would make some tonkatsu, 581 00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:33,920 which is like a fried pork and whatnot. 582 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,280 So we'd eat some of that. 583 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,200 And then there's these little frozen mochi, 584 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,560 like a frozen rice cake that we would burn 585 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,160 that we would broil in the oven and stuff 586 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,400 and soy sauce and sugar and whatnot. 587 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:48,720 So better than that, 588 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,400 pretty standard American cuisine otherwise. 589 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:53,760 And then you'll hate this, 590 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,080 but once we got into their restaurant 591 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,560 and they still were frequent to restaurant, 592 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,000 it was almost like eating McDonald's 593 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,520 for the majority of our meals 594 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,200 when I was working there. 595 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:11,200 And it's interesting because, 596 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:12,920 now look back, 597 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,760 maybe that's why I have an iron gut, 598 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,800 but there are certain sandwiches 599 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:20,800 that I absolutely love, 600 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:22,080 bacon and cheese biscuits, 601 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,200 sausage biscuit or whatever. 602 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,960 And everybody, or at least I really love the breakfast. 603 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,400 So knowing that we were switching from breakfast 604 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,120 to lunchtime, I would always save a sandwich 605 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,400 and take a bite of it. 606 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:35,800 Things would ultimately get busy. 607 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,520 That thing would sit in the office 608 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,840 in the back of the restaurant. 609 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,160 And I wouldn't come back to it 610 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,840 till probably, I don't know, 611 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,320 four or five o'clock in the evening 612 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:46,680 or just before I'm gonna go. 613 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,000 And then I would finish that sandwich. 614 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,480 And just one time when I was working, 615 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,200 once I had kind of ascended up 616 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,440 to become a restaurant manager, 617 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,600 one time one of my assistant managers 618 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,400 had thrown my breakfast sandwich away. 619 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:03,720 And I remember walking back there, 620 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,280 I don't know, it must have been three or four o'clock 621 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,200 in the afternoon. 622 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,360 I was like, hey, where's my sandwich? 623 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,360 Anybody seen my sandwich? 624 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,320 And she said, well, we threw it away. 625 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:19,320 I go, no, don't ever throw my sandwich away. 626 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:21,200 I'm gonna eat that. 627 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,520 So, but we would eat that 628 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,280 because that's where we were. 629 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,140 And when you're running a business, 630 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,280 that's where you're at. 631 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,520 Did you struggle with any health or weight issues 632 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:37,920 when you were at that period? 633 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,960 No, actually, well, who knows what my blood work looked like. 634 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,520 But as far as weight goes, 635 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,200 no, I was a skinny little beanpole kid. 636 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,520 I look back at pictures and even today 637 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:52,480 when I look in the mirror, 638 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,960 I'm like, I still see that little skinny scrawny kid. 639 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,040 When I got hired in the fire service, 640 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,960 I was 130 pounds, I wanna say, 641 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,400 when I got hired my first year. 642 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,520 And now I tip the scales at about 185. 643 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,920 And so I don't think it's all bad weight, 644 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,320 but maybe other people can be the judge of that. 645 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,120 Well, let's walk into that phase of your life then. 646 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,600 So you worked in McDonald's. 647 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,240 What was that bug? 648 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,600 Who sowed the seed for you getting into the fire service 649 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,800 and then walked me through your on-ramp? 650 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,880 Yeah, so it's actually a high school buddy, 651 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,920 buddy of a buddy, we'll call it. 652 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,880 It's one of my best friends growing up 653 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,680 that we played baseball together and all this, Eric. 654 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,600 He had a buddy that he was super close with, 655 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,000 his name's Tate Tripple. 656 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,880 And Tate was a volunteer out at what was then 657 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,480 St. Helens fire up kind of west of city of Portland. 658 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:02,480 And so I would come up and visit Eric and Tate 659 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:07,640 and he had this little red pager thing that would go off. 660 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,480 And he had all the stickers on his truck, 661 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,480 I fight what you fear and Calvin peeing on the fire and stuff. 662 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,280 And so we just talked a little bit about it. 663 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:19,880 I'd hear the pager go off. 664 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,480 I always kind of had a little affinity to like radio stuff, 665 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,120 but didn't really have like the strong desire 666 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:29,800 to be a firefighter or whatever. 667 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,400 So he kind of, as we were talking through the years, 668 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,440 he's just like, you know how to think about 669 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:36,280 doing a fire service. 670 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:37,880 I would just ask questions like, 671 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,880 and I'd watch drill or just seemed somewhat interesting. 672 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,440 So he was the one that actually said, 673 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,480 hey, you should think about the fire service. 674 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,680 And so I did. 675 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,200 And this was in 2000. 676 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:01,200 So I had come back from, 677 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,880 so I went to Hamburger University, 678 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,840 which is the advanced operations course 679 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,440 for McDonald's all owner operators 680 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,120 and restaurant matters have to do that. 681 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:14,120 So that's how I earned that training and whatnot. 682 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,440 But as I said, you ought to look at the fire service. 683 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:19,360 You ought to look at Shemeck 684 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,040 at a community college and their program. 685 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,080 And so I did. 686 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,800 And it just so happened that that process 687 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,320 was open for applications. 688 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,400 And so I looked at it, I pulled the application up. 689 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,640 Well, the deadline for that next class was, 690 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:41,480 well, we were gonna be on vacation in Mexico. 691 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,520 And so we're looking at that and I'm just like, 692 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,640 you know, I think that's something I really wanna do. 693 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:52,640 And so somehow I was able to convince my parents 694 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,920 to change my flight. 695 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,880 And so I flew home on a Wednesday. 696 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,560 So I think we flew into Mexico on a Sunday. 697 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,720 I flew home on a Wednesday. 698 00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:11,240 Our restaurant manager, phenomenal guy, 699 00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:13,200 he was with my parents for a long time, 700 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,480 became our supervisor, his name's Bernie. 701 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,200 And Bernie would remind me of this later. 702 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,320 I remember picking him up from the airport. 703 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:23,600 And he drove me back. 704 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,040 So picked me up in Portland. 705 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,200 We lived in Eugene at that time. 706 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:32,200 And we drove back and I spent all day Thursday 707 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,520 gathering up all of the stuff that I needed. 708 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,520 So, and this wasn't the time now where you can log in 709 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,040 and get your unofficial email to you and all that stuff. 710 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,560 So I had to go to the DMV, 711 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,240 had to figure out how to get my unofficial transcripts 712 00:34:47,240 --> 00:34:49,160 and official transcripts from high school 713 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,840 and then lane community, I think. 714 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,160 And anyway, so put all that application together 715 00:34:55,160 --> 00:35:00,160 and hand delivered it on Friday afternoon 716 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,440 before the deadline and turned it in. 717 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:08,320 And so I didn't really know what I was getting into at all. 718 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,480 And I remember we did, you know, 719 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,240 that written test interview. 720 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,760 Fortunately, a lot of my experience 721 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,440 in the customer service and running the restaurants, 722 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,160 I was able to tie that into what that meant 723 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,840 to now become a firefighter or how that would help me. 724 00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:33,000 And so then it was time for the physical agility test. 725 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,320 And there's people now that I work with 726 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:37,280 who are there for that. 727 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:38,880 So it's really funny to think about. 728 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,080 So when I was practicing, trying to work out and stuff, 729 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:46,080 I was this little kid, you know, 20 years old, maybe 21, 730 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,280 weigh 130 pounds, scrawny. 731 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,320 And so I take off and it was the combat challenge 732 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,080 was what the physical agility test was. 733 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,480 And so I did that physical agility test 734 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,160 and I was an alternate going into that physical. 735 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,120 And I'm not sure if I knew that or not. 736 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:04,960 I think I may have. 737 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,760 And so based on how it went down, 738 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,720 had I passed that test I was in, 739 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:14,960 if I didn't pass it, I was out, 740 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:16,840 kind of is what it came down to. 741 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,400 So anyway, so I'm going through that thing 742 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,960 and I'm on the dummy drag and I'm pulling that dummy drag. 743 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,560 I came out super fast, didn't know how to pace myself. 744 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:28,800 Sometimes I still don't. 745 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:33,800 And so I get to that dummy drag and I'm dragging that thing 746 00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:37,960 and my legs are done. 747 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,440 Just barely moving. 748 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,240 I'm just yelling and screaming. 749 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,120 I kind of want to think maybe I yelled bonsai, 750 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,320 you know, as I was across the line. 751 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:53,720 Your grandma. 752 00:36:53,720 --> 00:36:55,520 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 753 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,720 And like just collapsed over the line 754 00:36:59,720 --> 00:37:02,200 and the guys that were there, 755 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,680 the guys and gals that were there helped support me. 756 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:09,680 And they just said, hey man, congratulations, you're in. 757 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,800 And I just remember that feeling of accomplishment. 758 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,120 And then it took like three hours for me to go drive. 759 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,000 Like I think that was my first experience 760 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,160 of like the body just literally shutting down. 761 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,200 Like I couldn't walk, I had to go sit. 762 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,600 And so it was like three hours, 763 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,080 I think before I was finally ready to drive home. 764 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,040 And so that was going into the Dementia program. 765 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,040 And then after being accepted, 766 00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:45,040 I went and I did a ride along with Tate and automatic unit. 767 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,040 And I think we got one call that day. 768 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,760 And it was for, I think it ultimately 769 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,600 was a bowel obstruction or whatever. 770 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,200 And so I get in the back of the ambulance 771 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,480 and I'm sitting in kind of the seat on the side, 772 00:37:58,480 --> 00:37:59,920 not necessarily the airway seat, 773 00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:01,200 but the seat on the other side. 774 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,480 And we're just riding in, it's an elderly guy. 775 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,760 And the medic is getting ready to put an IV in. 776 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:10,840 And so I tell the patient, 777 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,600 you're gonna feel a poke in the arm when I put IV in. 778 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,500 And as soon as he did, the patient reached up. 779 00:38:17,500 --> 00:38:19,920 And because I was just sitting there, 780 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,120 he reached out and he grabs my hand and squeezes 781 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,840 as the medic's doing his deal. 782 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,320 And it was in that moment that I knew this 783 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:36,320 is what I wanted to do that in this person's time of need 784 00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:39,640 and in their condition and they're scared 785 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,960 and they're looking for comfort, 786 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,000 I just happened to be here. 787 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,400 And I remember that feeling of him squeezing my hand. 788 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,600 And then from there, it was just, it was on. 789 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,720 And so went through Shemekra's program. 790 00:38:55,720 --> 00:38:58,440 First time ever in my educational career 791 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:02,640 that I actually got decent grades, A's and stuff 792 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,800 instead of barely passing and whatnot. 793 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,040 I flunked out a Japanese, 794 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:09,640 I think two or three times in my life. 795 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,240 So I ended up taking French. 796 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,680 And so this was the first time 797 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,000 that I actually excelled at something, 798 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:22,100 but it didn't come without its challenges and stuff too. 799 00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:25,040 And I learned a lot of lessons the hard way, 800 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,160 which probably leads into more of my story 801 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,120 about the importance of mentoring. 802 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,760 But that's how I ultimately got in was because of Tate 803 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,560 and just saying, have you ever thought of? 804 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,440 And I haven't because up until that moment, 805 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:47,440 I was just gonna be a second generation owner operator 806 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,280 and go through the McDonald's system. 807 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:53,800 But it was also my time, 808 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,840 I got to that point where it was, 809 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,880 can I do something on my own? 810 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,260 Or do I always need mommy and daddy? 811 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,000 Because there's that stigma of the owner's son. 812 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,040 Like, well, you're the owner's son. 813 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,640 So you didn't really earn it. 814 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,520 You didn't, you're just really in that role 815 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,000 because you're the owner's son. 816 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,440 And so this was kind of my opportunity 817 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,240 to maybe prove to myself 818 00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:23,800 that I could be successful on my own 819 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,880 without the direct help of mom and dad. 820 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:32,200 But the older I get and the more I dive 821 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,280 into some of these difficult topics, 822 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,960 the more I realized that even though I went out 823 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,420 kind of on my own to chase my own dream, 824 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,600 had I not had the comfort and security 825 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,520 and the things that I had that were there 826 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,840 from just who I happened to be born to, 827 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,120 I would have never been able to make that jump 828 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,280 from the restaurant to the fire service. 829 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,760 I didn't have to worry about food on the table. 830 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,020 I didn't have to worry about a roof over my head. 831 00:41:08,020 --> 00:41:11,800 And I could not work and just focus on school. 832 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,900 And so now as I look back, 833 00:41:14,900 --> 00:41:18,640 I see what having that opportunity has provided for me. 834 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,320 And so that's the stuff that kind of feeds 835 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,480 into what my passions and drives are now. 836 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,680 So that's how I got into the Schmecher program 837 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:34,040 and people out there probably gonna hate to hear this, 838 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:38,520 but I took two fire tests in my life. 839 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:43,320 I have one, I still have one partially completed application, 840 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:45,480 but I took two tests. 841 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:50,480 The first test I took was for Clackamas Fire in 2001, 842 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,000 I wanna say it was, late 2001. 843 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,840 And then the other test was City of Las Vegas 844 00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,400 in the winter of 02. 845 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:00,600 And I only took that test 846 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,000 because I'd never been to Las Vegas 847 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,840 and being 20 and whatever, 848 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:05,400 I mean, everybody's gotta go to Las Vegas. 849 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,720 So took the test down in Las Vegas 850 00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:10,880 and that was in the time where they were growing, 851 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,320 had a conditional job offer, 852 00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:13,720 went through all the background checks 853 00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:15,800 and then it was like, oh, this is real. 854 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,680 Like I actually have to consider 855 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:19,600 like living down here in Las Vegas. 856 00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:24,600 And so ultimately I didn't get picked up to go down there. 857 00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:29,060 But I know that was, there's reasons for that. 858 00:42:29,060 --> 00:42:32,800 And then I ended up getting hired at Clackamas Fire. 859 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,920 So literally got hired at the very first place 860 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,840 I put an application in. 861 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:42,840 Firstly, I wanna say if I ever begin a porn career, 862 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,760 I'm gonna call myself Tate Triple 863 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,640 because that is an incredible name. 864 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:48,880 So I'm gonna give shout out to Tate, 865 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,880 not only for mentoring you 866 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,580 and choosing you to the fire service, 867 00:42:52,580 --> 00:42:55,800 but his parents did an incredible thing. 868 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,160 Right. 869 00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,640 So we're gonna obviously talk about, 870 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:02,320 some of the challenges that you and I 871 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:03,560 have had many conversations on 872 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:04,720 when it comes to the fire service. 873 00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:08,360 But just to set the stage at the front door, 874 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,200 what did the bar look like for you 20 years ago? 875 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,360 For that it was, gosh, did we, 876 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,880 I don't think we had to have our firefighter one yet. 877 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,940 I think that was in the era. 878 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,680 It was an EMT, I wanna say that was it, 879 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:30,720 18 years old, EMT GED. 880 00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:35,280 And yeah, because I wouldn't have had my firefighter one yet. 881 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:36,480 I was still at Chemeketa, 882 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,280 so I would have just maybe finished my EMT. 883 00:43:40,980 --> 00:43:43,380 And so that was really it. 884 00:43:43,380 --> 00:43:48,380 We, I remember taking a Wonderlic IQ test as part of it. 885 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,640 And then I think it was just some general fire service, 886 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,920 essentially like a basic math test, 887 00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,000 and then interviewing stuff. 888 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,880 So that was the bar. 889 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,080 And what's interesting is, 890 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,800 I was reflecting on that, 891 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,240 and how when we did get hired, 892 00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:11,820 that group that got hired, the two group, 893 00:44:11,820 --> 00:44:13,880 actually that list, gosh, we hired four, 894 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:18,560 I think four or five groups off that list. 895 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:23,560 But the O3 groups were the first, 896 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,580 that were the non-paramedics that got hired. 897 00:44:26,580 --> 00:44:31,580 And I can remember being on shift with crusty old paramedics. 898 00:44:34,620 --> 00:44:38,800 And I remember we're at the table, 899 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,020 and someone just goes, yeah, 900 00:44:41,020 --> 00:44:42,460 and then we go out and we hire a bunch 901 00:44:42,460 --> 00:44:43,860 of these worthless fucks. 902 00:44:45,340 --> 00:44:46,800 And I'll never forget that, 903 00:44:48,780 --> 00:44:50,460 and how that makes you feel. 904 00:44:50,460 --> 00:44:51,580 And then on top of it, 905 00:44:51,580 --> 00:44:56,020 there was a diversity label tied to that. 906 00:44:56,020 --> 00:44:58,740 So now, as I reflect back, I look, 907 00:44:58,740 --> 00:45:03,740 and I go, so not only did I try to run from the owner's son, 908 00:45:05,260 --> 00:45:07,540 now I'm in a place where, 909 00:45:07,540 --> 00:45:10,380 because I don't have my paramedic, 910 00:45:10,380 --> 00:45:12,740 because I hadn't got to that level yet, 911 00:45:14,260 --> 00:45:15,820 so I'm at EMT, I went to fire, 912 00:45:15,820 --> 00:45:19,140 I just wanna work at that fire department, 913 00:45:19,140 --> 00:45:21,340 and I didn't really know why, just do. 914 00:45:22,980 --> 00:45:25,160 Now I'm a worthless fuck, 915 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,860 and now I'm only getting hired because I'm a minority. 916 00:45:28,740 --> 00:45:32,180 And so I kinda realized, 917 00:45:33,220 --> 00:45:38,220 gosh, am I ever gonna shake something like that? 918 00:45:40,620 --> 00:45:44,780 You're the owner's son, so that's why you're here. 919 00:45:44,780 --> 00:45:47,880 Well, you're a minority, so that's why you're here. 920 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,500 And so I've just seen how that has kinda played out 921 00:45:51,500 --> 00:45:55,380 and motivated me and inspired me 922 00:45:55,380 --> 00:45:59,060 and pushed me to go do different things, 923 00:45:59,060 --> 00:46:02,540 and actually, ultimately, to just help other people. 924 00:46:02,540 --> 00:46:07,540 But anyway, so that was kinda the minimum requirements 925 00:46:08,020 --> 00:46:10,940 that I can recall, was just 18 at EMT, 926 00:46:10,940 --> 00:46:13,460 because I wouldn't have had my firefighter one yet 927 00:46:14,420 --> 00:46:15,860 at that point. 928 00:46:15,860 --> 00:46:17,660 Well, it's so ridiculous, 929 00:46:17,660 --> 00:46:18,980 and I've talked about this a lot. 930 00:46:18,980 --> 00:46:22,060 There's only one prejudice that actually has value 931 00:46:22,060 --> 00:46:25,820 in the fire service, those who can and those who can't. 932 00:46:25,820 --> 00:46:28,540 And there are absolutely departments 933 00:46:28,540 --> 00:46:32,700 that did a horrible job of recruiting people 934 00:46:32,700 --> 00:46:35,620 that reflected the communities that their departments were in, 935 00:46:35,620 --> 00:46:37,260 and we're fully aware of that. 936 00:46:37,260 --> 00:46:40,980 But the knee-jerk response to that was the box checking, 937 00:46:40,980 --> 00:46:44,620 we need X amount of person W, 938 00:46:44,620 --> 00:46:45,620 and then within that, 939 00:46:45,620 --> 00:46:47,700 you get those who can or those who can't. 940 00:46:47,700 --> 00:46:49,260 And this then causes the issues. 941 00:46:49,260 --> 00:46:51,220 The ones that can feel like 942 00:46:51,220 --> 00:46:53,540 they're constantly trying to prove themselves, 943 00:46:53,540 --> 00:46:55,220 but then the ones that can't, then you're like, 944 00:46:55,220 --> 00:46:58,540 well, see, so this is what makes this whole thing 945 00:46:58,540 --> 00:47:00,540 just so nauseating, and I've talked about this, 946 00:47:00,540 --> 00:47:02,220 I'm sure you've heard me. 947 00:47:02,220 --> 00:47:03,640 The answer is mentorship, 948 00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:05,540 which is kind of what got you in at the beginning. 949 00:47:05,540 --> 00:47:07,500 So I'd love to kind of start that as a first topic, 950 00:47:07,500 --> 00:47:12,180 because if you actively go into underserved populations, 951 00:47:12,180 --> 00:47:14,700 whether it's a gender or a skin color, 952 00:47:14,700 --> 00:47:17,700 whatever you deem underserved in your area, 953 00:47:17,700 --> 00:47:19,540 and you remove the barriers to entry 954 00:47:19,540 --> 00:47:21,340 of which there are legitimate ones, 955 00:47:21,340 --> 00:47:23,540 a lot of kids can't afford three or four grand 956 00:47:23,540 --> 00:47:25,460 on a fire academy, let's be honest. 957 00:47:25,460 --> 00:47:27,460 So you can actually provide training, 958 00:47:27,460 --> 00:47:30,180 you can provide scholarships to fire school, 959 00:47:30,180 --> 00:47:33,020 you have departments looking for young firefighters 960 00:47:33,020 --> 00:47:34,240 on the other end, 961 00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:37,000 that is how you approach diversity in the fire service. 962 00:47:38,020 --> 00:47:41,100 Yeah, you're spot on, you know, just recently, 963 00:47:41,100 --> 00:47:42,420 and this is what, you know, 964 00:47:42,420 --> 00:47:46,460 I'm grateful that our initial interview got pushed back. 965 00:47:46,460 --> 00:47:48,820 In fact, the morning that you called, 966 00:47:48,820 --> 00:47:51,020 I actually had a sense in my stomach 967 00:47:51,020 --> 00:47:53,520 that it was, that something was up. 968 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,740 And so anyways, but so where I'm going with that 969 00:47:56,740 --> 00:48:01,480 is just the other night, I was at a job fair 970 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,640 up in a local high school. 971 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:08,640 And you know, this kid comes up and he stands up, 972 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,640 he walks up next to me, and you end up, 973 00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,040 and we're, there was, we had one of our companies, 974 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:19,040 our truck companies, there's four firefighters there, 975 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:24,040 and then we had our public community services folks there, 976 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,120 and then I was there. 977 00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,720 And so sometimes we move in these big herds 978 00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:33,240 and that in of itself can be intimidating, 979 00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:35,440 especially when, you know, most of our, 980 00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,040 you know, truck folks, not all of them, 981 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,000 but that's probably the stereotype of, you know, 982 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,560 six foot plus and just physically look intimidating 983 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:44,800 and just in numbers. 984 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,000 So anyways, I'm just standing off to the side 985 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,720 and this young kid comes up and he's just like, 986 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,480 I know that is what I want to do. 987 00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,360 And so I said, so I started engaging, 988 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,520 we started talking and I must say, 989 00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,440 I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to do that, 990 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:05,880 but we started talking and I must, 991 00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,200 he and I must have chatted for 20, 30 minutes 992 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,880 and he was just asking like, okay, what do I need to do? 993 00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:17,880 And all of these things and the big takeaway for me, 994 00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:22,400 and maybe I'll fill in some more of that story is just, 995 00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,520 we just have to show up. 996 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:28,120 We have to recognize that we are always recruiting 997 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,680 wherever we are, we are a recruiting tool. 998 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:33,680 Like we're out in the community looking 999 00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,440 and our next great firefighter there, 1000 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:41,440 we just have to be aware and seek out that opportunity 1001 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,600 to engage and have that conversation. 1002 00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:49,040 You know, I finally got roped in to being an assistant coach 1003 00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,040 from my daughter's soccer team. 1004 00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:57,080 And, you know, so I oftentimes I'm getting out of work, 1005 00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,000 it's a little bit late and so I just go right 1006 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:00,360 to the soccer field. 1007 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:04,600 So I'm in my uniform, I'm in my staff bar 1008 00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:09,600 and, you know, one of my daughter's teammates would come up 1009 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:12,720 and, oh, you're a firefighter? 1010 00:50:12,720 --> 00:50:16,000 Like, yeah, it's okay, that's cool. 1011 00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,840 And so we just had these little interactions 1012 00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,800 and then one day I finally asked her, I just said, 1013 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,960 have you ever thought about being, you know, 1014 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:30,960 a firefighter or EMT or paramedic? 1015 00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,160 And you just see the wheels turning. 1016 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,920 And she's like, no, I haven't. 1017 00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,400 And so that's kind of when I realized this, 1018 00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,800 and I might even been standing off like thousand yard stare 1019 00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,360 looking out over, you know, the horizon or whatever, 1020 00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,720 just thinking about how I'm a recruiter 1021 00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:53,960 no matter where I'm at. 1022 00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,280 And there's an opportunity to ask a question 1023 00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:02,040 that maybe nobody has ever asked this person, this kid. 1024 00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:06,040 And just that little interaction could set the course 1025 00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:09,680 for them to become a firefighter. 1026 00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,520 And so going back to this kid at Oregon City, 1027 00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,800 you know, he's asking me all these things, 1028 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:16,640 what should I do? 1029 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,480 And, okay, so I know I need to do the EMT, 1030 00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:20,920 but then what else? 1031 00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:25,000 And so I recently came across this book called 1032 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:26,880 Never Split the Difference, Chris Foss, 1033 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,240 and there's all these little techniques. 1034 00:51:28,240 --> 00:51:30,440 Well, one of the things he talks about is 1035 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:36,400 ask how and what questions and get people to think. 1036 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:41,680 And so here I am talking with this kid 1037 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:47,600 and I'm like, okay, well, what activities do you do? 1038 00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,800 What activities do you do? 1039 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,160 Or, you know, are you working? 1040 00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:52,000 Do you have a job? 1041 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:52,820 Like, what do you do? 1042 00:51:52,820 --> 00:51:53,660 And he said, yeah, you know, 1043 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:56,160 you know, I work at a, 1044 00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:57,800 I want to see works out of Bowling Island. 1045 00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,040 I can't remember where and it bothers me, 1046 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:02,240 but I said, cool. 1047 00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:05,440 And I said, so what's your experience 1048 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,760 or what do you do in that job 1049 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,840 that you think could relate to being a firefighter? 1050 00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:15,240 Says, well, you know, in customer service, 1051 00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:18,480 I work with customers and I'll have a talk with people. 1052 00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,360 I got to, you know, clean and keep things neat. 1053 00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,880 So that would be like, I got to keep the rig clean. 1054 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:25,840 I got to keep the station clean. 1055 00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,640 So all of these life skills that he's learning. 1056 00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:32,920 And so as he's sharing it, I go, that is exactly right. 1057 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,520 You are already doing the things that you need to do 1058 00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:37,840 to be a successful firefighter. 1059 00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:39,960 You're learning how to clean. 1060 00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,920 You're learning how to interact with the public. 1061 00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:47,760 You're learning, you know, what it means to show up on time, 1062 00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:49,720 do a good job, all of those things. 1063 00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:54,240 And all those are transferable skills to the fire service. 1064 00:52:54,240 --> 00:52:56,080 It's just a different context. 1065 00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:57,520 That's all it is. 1066 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,920 And we can teach you how to do your fire skills. 1067 00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:05,920 And so, so to me, the mentoring, that's getting upstream. 1068 00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:10,000 And so, you know, I think he was a junior. 1069 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,960 So maybe by the time I retire, 1070 00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,840 maybe I'll see his name come through 1071 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,320 on an application list somewhere. 1072 00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,880 Yeah, I'll pause there for a second. 1073 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:27,840 Yeah, no, it's funny the way you frame that 1074 00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:29,120 is we're always recruiting. 1075 00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,880 I, when my little boy was in elementary, he's a junior now. 1076 00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:36,760 So quite a long time ago, they had career day, you know, 1077 00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:41,640 and all the dads usually or local, whatever they were, 1078 00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:42,840 mayor, et cetera, would come in 1079 00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:44,280 and they'd give a little presentation. 1080 00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:46,640 And I would do that and I'd bring my gear 1081 00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,520 and I'd bring my axe and all the cool things that we have. 1082 00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:54,520 But the class would be more about kindness, teamwork, 1083 00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:59,080 you know, the assets, the attributes that make a firefighter. 1084 00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:00,920 So that way it was applicable to them 1085 00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:02,920 that same day in their school. 1086 00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:04,600 Because, you know, I didn't expect, 1087 00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:06,440 and the kids, most of them didn't wanna be a firefighter. 1088 00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,800 They wanna be a YouTuber or, you know, 1089 00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:13,160 all these new modern jobs, but it was more infusing that. 1090 00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,280 Like we're not just running around kicking in doors. 1091 00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,000 Like we have to be kind and compassionate 1092 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:19,560 to the old lady that fell down 1093 00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:21,120 and, you know, just trying to paint that picture. 1094 00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:24,080 So even though it wasn't a recruiting tool, 1095 00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:28,000 it was taking this job that a lot of people seem to admire 1096 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:29,720 and kind of flipping it around and say, 1097 00:54:29,720 --> 00:54:31,120 well, we have to be kind. 1098 00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:32,600 We have to work together. 1099 00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,680 We have to be fit, you know, we have to, you know, 1100 00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:38,680 if one of us is sick or is struggling, 1101 00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:40,440 we have to help pick them back up, you know, 1102 00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,880 and those, so even though it wasn't recruiting, 1103 00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:46,840 it was a great platform to teach a bunch of elementary kids 1104 00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,840 really about bullying and teamwork and some other things 1105 00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,560 under the guise of a career day. 1106 00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,360 Right, no, that's great. 1107 00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:55,200 I'm glad you mentioned that. 1108 00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,280 It made me think about, you know, 1109 00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,160 talking to this kid the other day 1110 00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:04,400 and even starting it then, because nobody really told, 1111 00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,800 and I know you've talked about this with other guests, 1112 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,880 but nobody told us really like 1113 00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:11,960 what we were gonna have to deal with. 1114 00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,880 And when we look at our recruiting videos, 1115 00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:16,920 it's, you know, all this, you know, 1116 00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,320 code three and fires and all this stuff. 1117 00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:24,320 And in some ways, it can be a little misleading 1118 00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:26,160 or a lot misleading. 1119 00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,960 And so we don't see, you know, 1120 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,240 kind of the emotional toll that it can also take. 1121 00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:32,560 And so as I'm talking with this kid, 1122 00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:33,440 I'm thinking about that. 1123 00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:38,000 I'm like, well, I need to figure out for a 16 year old, 1124 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,720 how do you get him on that track? 1125 00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:43,480 And so I talked about, you gotta be fit. 1126 00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,280 So fitness is huge. 1127 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,040 I think I said probably three or four times, 1128 00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,080 graduate high school or get a GED. 1129 00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:50,920 I can either diploma or GED and EMT. 1130 00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:54,240 So I kind of repeat some of those things, stay out of trouble. 1131 00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:57,960 And I said, yeah, physical fitness 1132 00:55:57,960 --> 00:55:59,600 and then also mental stuff. 1133 00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,720 I said, we will see things, people getting hurt 1134 00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:07,120 and, you know, broken bones and people die. 1135 00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:11,040 And so you, however, we have the, you know, 1136 00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:15,440 the programs and the things to help process 1137 00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:17,280 through those things, but those are all stuff 1138 00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:19,520 you need to know kind of upfront. 1139 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,320 Probably because of his age, I remember thinking, 1140 00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,480 I should just tell him about gearing podcast, 1141 00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,720 but maybe not to a 16 year old. 1142 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,240 But there have been several other people 1143 00:56:31,240 --> 00:56:33,280 who have reached out to me throughout the years 1144 00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:34,280 about the fire service. 1145 00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:36,280 And one of the first things I'll say is, 1146 00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:40,800 behind the shield podcast, James Gearing, start listening. 1147 00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,040 And here are some of the episodes 1148 00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,000 you should kind of start to listen to. 1149 00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,600 And by the way, read his book. 1150 00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:52,600 At least you're gonna start to have a little bit more 1151 00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:57,080 of an understanding of what you're potentially getting into. 1152 00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:00,520 And so, and even talk about the family component, 1153 00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,160 especially for career shift people, 1154 00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:06,560 I had a winemaker who had reached out to our agency 1155 00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:10,880 and then ultimately his name came across my desk. 1156 00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:15,440 So I call him up and we talked for a couple hours, 1157 00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:19,160 I wanna say, and I said, so here's some things to look at. 1158 00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:23,760 I want you to get on, find behind the shield podcast, 1159 00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,240 listen, I can't even remember which episodes 1160 00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,240 I told him to listen to. 1161 00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:32,040 I said, but also you need to make sure your wife's on board. 1162 00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,520 There's not gonna be an easy process getting in and all that. 1163 00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:36,560 So started kind of that conversation. 1164 00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:37,760 And that's based on the work 1165 00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:39,880 that Mike and Anne Galeano are doing. 1166 00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:42,800 And so trying to wrap all of that up 1167 00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,360 so people know what they're getting into, 1168 00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:50,360 or at least I can say, I let you know, 1169 00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:52,640 and you made an informed decision 1170 00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:56,000 versus getting blindsided five years later. 1171 00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:57,440 And you're like, how come you didn't tell me 1172 00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,000 you're gonna have to deal with this, this, this and this? 1173 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:05,000 Anyway, so ultimately he followed some of that path 1174 00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:08,960 and a couple of years later, 1175 00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:12,040 he had sent me a thank you card 1176 00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,880 and saying that he had just gotten hired 1177 00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:19,160 and all these things and thank you. 1178 00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:24,160 So I don't even know how we got on that, but yeah. 1179 00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:28,240 Beautiful, yeah, it's funny you said about 16 year old, 1180 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,520 my son, I mean, he's known about the podcast 1181 00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:34,160 since day one, obviously, and he just started listening. 1182 00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:35,840 This is actually Harry Turner, 1183 00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,080 who was the British military veteran 1184 00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:42,000 that ended up doing conservation work in Peru, 1185 00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,440 had these like relationships with these ocelots, 1186 00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,120 still kind of leopard looking things, 1187 00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,400 nurtured one up to almost being able 1188 00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:51,760 to release it back to captivity 1189 00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,520 and actually got killed by a poacher's tram. 1190 00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:56,840 Broke his heart all over again, 1191 00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,480 you know, back into another one about a year later. 1192 00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:02,440 And then, you know, ultimately it's a successful release 1193 00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:05,680 and you know, it's thriving in the wild now. 1194 00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:07,240 But that was the one that got my son in. 1195 00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:09,280 It's funny because he's listened to Josh Brolin 1196 00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:10,160 and some of the other ones too. 1197 00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:14,600 And he's like, dad, it's so weird hearing you on Spotify. 1198 00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:18,240 Like I said, he's seen me do it for seven years, 1199 00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:21,200 but now he's old enough to be a kind of audience member, 1200 00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:22,520 air quotes. 1201 00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:23,920 He just looked at it a little differently. 1202 00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:24,840 He's like, this is so weird. 1203 00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,480 Like my dad sounds like a professional, you know, 1204 00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:29,040 and I'm his dad. 1205 00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:31,160 I'm the one that does stupid shit at home. 1206 00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,080 So it was kind of endearing after seven years 1207 00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:37,960 for him to add to, you know, the people that listen. 1208 00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,680 Yeah, that is so awesome. 1209 00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:43,320 You know, my son didn't even want to go, 1210 00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:45,440 he didn't want to go to the career fair 1211 00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:48,520 when I went to his school a couple weeks ago. 1212 00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,760 You know, he didn't, you know, want to go 1213 00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:52,840 because you're right, we're just dad. 1214 00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:55,320 But I will say this morning, you know, 1215 00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:57,600 before my daughter got on the bus, 1216 00:59:57,600 --> 00:59:59,720 you know, we were talking, I said, 1217 00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:03,240 well, today's the day I'm gonna be on, you know, 1218 01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:04,960 behind the shield of James Dearian. 1219 01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,280 She lights up and we're just, 1220 01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:10,480 we were laughing a little bit about 1221 01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,040 how in some of those episodes, you know, 1222 01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,680 you guys are too kind, you give me shout outs and stuff. 1223 01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,700 And she's like, yeah, and this time it's gonna be, 1224 01:00:17,700 --> 01:00:20,340 this is Steve Sackaguchi. 1225 01:00:20,340 --> 01:00:24,820 So we were having a good laugh about that. 1226 01:00:24,820 --> 01:00:27,380 And so yeah, kids are funny. 1227 01:00:27,380 --> 01:00:31,820 Yeah, we're just dad, not somebody out, you know, 1228 01:00:31,820 --> 01:00:34,020 doing whatever it is we're doing. 1229 01:00:34,020 --> 01:00:35,780 Yeah, ultimately we are. 1230 01:00:35,780 --> 01:00:36,780 And I think that's the thing. 1231 01:00:36,780 --> 01:00:39,300 When you forget that, maybe that's when issues come. 1232 01:00:39,300 --> 01:00:40,380 You know, we are just that. 1233 01:00:40,380 --> 01:00:41,780 We just happen to do, you know, 1234 01:00:41,780 --> 01:00:43,340 some cool things in our careers. 1235 01:00:43,340 --> 01:00:45,700 But we're speaking of that, 1236 01:00:45,700 --> 01:00:47,980 I wanna kind of shift a little bit, you know, 1237 01:00:47,980 --> 01:00:50,020 you've got a 20 year career under your belt. 1238 01:00:50,020 --> 01:00:51,980 As you progress through the years, 1239 01:00:51,980 --> 01:00:56,140 what was some of the career calls and fires that you had? 1240 01:00:57,580 --> 01:01:01,460 Man, you know, it's, 1241 01:01:04,460 --> 01:01:06,620 the one that really sticks out, 1242 01:01:07,740 --> 01:01:09,260 man, there's a whole, now that you asked, 1243 01:01:09,260 --> 01:01:12,140 like I can see the Rolodex going through, 1244 01:01:12,140 --> 01:01:15,060 but, you know, as an officer, 1245 01:01:15,060 --> 01:01:18,420 I think one of the ones that really stands out, 1246 01:01:18,420 --> 01:01:20,500 that I wouldn't say it wants me, 1247 01:01:20,500 --> 01:01:21,540 it's probably not the right word, 1248 01:01:21,540 --> 01:01:26,540 but one that I reflect on is if I did it okay, 1249 01:01:29,060 --> 01:01:32,420 and it was a motorcycle crash, 1250 01:01:32,420 --> 01:01:34,660 and a teenager getting on a motorcycle 1251 01:01:34,660 --> 01:01:37,100 and art of himself and, you know, 1252 01:01:37,100 --> 01:01:39,500 he was dead when we got there. 1253 01:01:41,300 --> 01:01:43,660 That was witnessed by friends. 1254 01:01:43,660 --> 01:01:46,260 And so as I'm, and this was when I was 1255 01:01:46,260 --> 01:01:48,420 on a two person squad rig. 1256 01:01:49,460 --> 01:01:51,380 So we get there and I'm, you know, 1257 01:01:51,380 --> 01:01:53,060 trying to size up, figure out what's going on, 1258 01:01:53,060 --> 01:01:55,340 and I go walking up, you know, 1259 01:01:55,340 --> 01:01:57,460 to see these other teenagers, 1260 01:01:57,460 --> 01:02:01,340 and one of them hands me their phone and says, 1261 01:02:01,340 --> 01:02:03,060 his sister is on the phone. 1262 01:02:04,020 --> 01:02:06,260 And I'm like, what? 1263 01:02:07,380 --> 01:02:10,380 And so his sister was on the other end of the line, 1264 01:02:10,380 --> 01:02:15,380 and I can't remember if I had talked to her right then 1265 01:02:16,180 --> 01:02:19,300 or if the phone disconnected or whatever, 1266 01:02:19,300 --> 01:02:20,740 I can't remember that part, 1267 01:02:20,740 --> 01:02:24,060 but I do remember at some point, 1268 01:02:24,060 --> 01:02:26,980 she was traveling to the scene where we were at, 1269 01:02:28,780 --> 01:02:32,340 and driving, and so here I am, you know, 1270 01:02:32,340 --> 01:02:35,220 in the middle of this thing on the phone, 1271 01:02:35,220 --> 01:02:38,540 and you can hear her getting, you know, 1272 01:02:38,540 --> 01:02:40,580 understandably upset and emotional, 1273 01:02:40,580 --> 01:02:45,580 and so like there's no way you're getting 1274 01:02:45,860 --> 01:02:47,780 that person to stop or whatever, 1275 01:02:47,780 --> 01:02:50,180 like so I don't know what happened, 1276 01:02:50,180 --> 01:02:52,540 but in my mind, it shifted to, 1277 01:02:52,540 --> 01:02:56,020 I just have to get her to the scene, 1278 01:02:56,020 --> 01:02:58,260 but I knew where the roads and stuff were blocked off, 1279 01:02:58,260 --> 01:03:01,180 so I just have to make sure she gets here. 1280 01:03:02,300 --> 01:03:05,700 And so I remember coaching her through 1281 01:03:05,700 --> 01:03:08,700 like a quarter mile at a time, 1282 01:03:08,700 --> 01:03:11,820 and I knew where they were coming from, 1283 01:03:11,820 --> 01:03:13,380 said, where are you at right now? 1284 01:03:13,380 --> 01:03:14,580 I'm at so-and-so, I said, okay, 1285 01:03:14,580 --> 01:03:16,180 I need you to look up, look to your right, 1286 01:03:16,180 --> 01:03:19,300 do you see, you know, a McDonald's? 1287 01:03:19,300 --> 01:03:21,020 Yes, I see a McDonald's, okay, I need you to look, 1288 01:03:21,020 --> 01:03:23,020 keep going straight, and then there's been moments 1289 01:03:23,020 --> 01:03:25,360 where they would kind of shift into the, 1290 01:03:26,300 --> 01:03:27,980 you know, oh my gosh, I know what's happened, 1291 01:03:27,980 --> 01:03:30,020 this is what they do, they don't tell you, 1292 01:03:30,020 --> 01:03:33,260 and so you'd have to regain that, you know, 1293 01:03:33,260 --> 01:03:35,780 so I'd say her name, say her name, 1294 01:03:35,780 --> 01:03:38,580 I'd get her back, and I'd say, what do you see right now? 1295 01:03:38,580 --> 01:03:42,580 You know, I say, okay, I see this, okay, keep going straight, 1296 01:03:42,580 --> 01:03:43,460 and I need you to look up, 1297 01:03:43,460 --> 01:03:45,180 and you're gonna see two more stoplights, 1298 01:03:45,180 --> 01:03:46,620 and when you get to that second stoplight, 1299 01:03:46,620 --> 01:03:48,140 you take a left. 1300 01:03:48,140 --> 01:03:50,460 And so I talked her through turn by turn to get there, 1301 01:03:50,460 --> 01:03:52,640 and I said, and when you get here, 1302 01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:55,020 I will come down and I will talk to you. 1303 01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:59,020 And I do remember at one point, I was trying to cook, 1304 01:03:59,020 --> 01:04:00,020 is there somebody else in the car? 1305 01:04:00,020 --> 01:04:02,100 Because she was talking to somebody else, 1306 01:04:02,100 --> 01:04:05,540 I'm like, is there somebody else with you? 1307 01:04:06,540 --> 01:04:07,380 Because then I'm thinking, 1308 01:04:07,380 --> 01:04:08,980 well, maybe I can just switch drivers, 1309 01:04:08,980 --> 01:04:10,180 and maybe that'll help. 1310 01:04:11,100 --> 01:04:12,660 Just, yeah, there's someone with me, I go, who? 1311 01:04:12,660 --> 01:04:14,020 Well, my other sister, I'm like, 1312 01:04:14,020 --> 01:04:16,740 well, that's not gonna work. 1313 01:04:17,780 --> 01:04:21,180 So the mission became just getting her safe to the scene, 1314 01:04:21,180 --> 01:04:22,020 and so we did. 1315 01:04:23,220 --> 01:04:25,060 And then we had to wait until it was, 1316 01:04:25,060 --> 01:04:27,340 and then got off the phone, 1317 01:04:27,340 --> 01:04:30,420 and I had the phone still in my, with me, 1318 01:04:30,420 --> 01:04:31,620 she would call again and call again, 1319 01:04:31,620 --> 01:04:33,020 and I wouldn't answer, I wouldn't answer, 1320 01:04:33,020 --> 01:04:37,820 and I was waiting to get the okay to go down. 1321 01:04:37,820 --> 01:04:41,100 And then finally got the okay to go down. 1322 01:04:41,100 --> 01:04:45,620 And so, he hit in the car with one of our, 1323 01:04:45,620 --> 01:04:48,940 then a neighboring agency, Peer Support, 1324 01:04:48,940 --> 01:04:53,940 and so we go down, I'll never forget driving up, 1325 01:04:53,940 --> 01:04:58,780 and there is this group of probably 30 or 40 people. 1326 01:04:58,780 --> 01:05:03,780 And here I am giving a death notification, 1327 01:05:05,300 --> 01:05:09,460 and all of those questions of, well, did you do anything? 1328 01:05:09,460 --> 01:05:10,300 What did you do? 1329 01:05:10,300 --> 01:05:11,340 How come you didn't do anything? 1330 01:05:11,340 --> 01:05:14,420 And all those things, and then I'm just stuck there, 1331 01:05:14,420 --> 01:05:17,340 because I had just left a quarter mile away 1332 01:05:17,340 --> 01:05:18,940 from where the roof is parked, 1333 01:05:18,940 --> 01:05:23,700 and so then I'm just there, and answering the question, 1334 01:05:23,700 --> 01:05:28,700 there's nothing we can do, I'm sorry, he's dead. 1335 01:05:28,900 --> 01:05:30,420 And then you're just there. 1336 01:05:30,420 --> 01:05:34,100 And then ultimately, because of how big that group was, 1337 01:05:34,100 --> 01:05:37,600 we ended up moving them back to our fire station, 1338 01:05:38,460 --> 01:05:42,580 and then we went back, and thankfully, 1339 01:05:42,580 --> 01:05:44,420 we went out of service for a little bit, 1340 01:05:44,420 --> 01:05:46,780 but I do remember just finally getting in there, 1341 01:05:46,780 --> 01:05:51,780 and just the sensations in my gut, 1342 01:05:51,780 --> 01:05:55,260 feeling like I need to throw up, and that kind of stuff. 1343 01:05:56,220 --> 01:05:58,260 But every now and then, I reflect back, 1344 01:05:58,260 --> 01:05:59,660 or if I drive by that area, 1345 01:05:59,660 --> 01:06:01,820 there's still a cross there, and all that stuff, 1346 01:06:01,820 --> 01:06:04,580 and I just always wonder, 1347 01:06:04,580 --> 01:06:07,300 even though there was nothing that we could do, 1348 01:06:08,340 --> 01:06:10,540 was it at least better? 1349 01:06:10,540 --> 01:06:13,480 Did I at least do it okay? 1350 01:06:15,740 --> 01:06:19,740 So that's one of the harder calls that I can remember. 1351 01:06:19,740 --> 01:06:24,740 And then there's always the funny stuff, 1352 01:06:25,860 --> 01:06:29,460 and so I was thinking back to just all the funny things 1353 01:06:29,460 --> 01:06:31,660 that we've gone on over the years, 1354 01:06:31,660 --> 01:06:35,980 and I remember working in one of our busier areas, 1355 01:06:35,980 --> 01:06:39,180 and we get called for a sinkhole, 1356 01:06:39,180 --> 01:06:44,180 and it's just one big game of telephone with dispatch to us, 1357 01:06:44,180 --> 01:06:49,180 and you have uninformed public under stress 1358 01:06:50,860 --> 01:06:53,340 that are reporting what they're seeing, 1359 01:06:53,340 --> 01:06:55,300 and then that's going through to someone 1360 01:06:55,300 --> 01:06:57,580 who's trying to interpret, and then that comes to us. 1361 01:06:57,580 --> 01:07:00,360 Anyway, so it's just one big game of telephone. 1362 01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,420 So I tend to err on the side of being 1363 01:07:03,420 --> 01:07:05,160 a little bit more conservative than not, 1364 01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:06,540 so it's like, well, it's a sinkhole. 1365 01:07:06,540 --> 01:07:08,540 Okay, so let's go, okay, sinkhole, 1366 01:07:08,540 --> 01:07:12,340 well, I've seen sinkholes on TV in Florida, 1367 01:07:12,340 --> 01:07:13,180 all these things. 1368 01:07:13,180 --> 01:07:16,660 So in my mind, I have this bigger picture. 1369 01:07:16,660 --> 01:07:20,260 So we roll up, we jump out, 1370 01:07:21,180 --> 01:07:25,140 we put on our PFDs, our flotation devices, 1371 01:07:25,140 --> 01:07:26,140 this sinkhole, something, 1372 01:07:26,140 --> 01:07:28,980 and we fall in, whatever, there's water, at least, whatever. 1373 01:07:28,980 --> 01:07:33,220 So we walk up, the other crew is there, 1374 01:07:33,220 --> 01:07:36,740 and looks, or maybe they came after, 1375 01:07:36,740 --> 01:07:38,340 well, that doesn't matter, so we get there, 1376 01:07:38,340 --> 01:07:41,980 and it's not really a sinkhole. 1377 01:07:41,980 --> 01:07:45,700 It's an area where, under water, 1378 01:07:45,700 --> 01:07:47,500 cold for a day, kind of washed out some stuff. 1379 01:07:47,500 --> 01:07:52,220 So here we are, standing around this four-foot hole, 1380 01:07:52,220 --> 01:07:57,220 wearing our PFDs, and the other tech rescue crew shows up, 1381 01:07:58,100 --> 01:08:00,980 and they're just like, what are you guys doing? 1382 01:08:02,980 --> 01:08:06,220 So I'm just like, yep, that's me. 1383 01:08:07,780 --> 01:08:11,580 So those are just some of the funny calls. 1384 01:08:11,580 --> 01:08:14,140 I remember early on, too, 1385 01:08:14,980 --> 01:08:19,980 we get called to a mechanical noise in the wall, 1386 01:08:20,420 --> 01:08:23,660 sounds like the house is gonna explode. 1387 01:08:24,780 --> 01:08:27,060 So I'm like, oh, okay, and then, 1388 01:08:27,060 --> 01:08:29,460 I'm a firefighter, so it's early on in my career. 1389 01:08:29,460 --> 01:08:30,940 So I'm like, why don't we prep? 1390 01:08:32,220 --> 01:08:33,300 Why don't we prep for this one? 1391 01:08:33,300 --> 01:08:37,980 So put on full turnouts, SCBA, all this stuff, 1392 01:08:37,980 --> 01:08:40,780 we show up, residents, like, yeah, 1393 01:08:40,780 --> 01:08:42,020 it's just this weird noise. 1394 01:08:42,020 --> 01:08:45,100 And so we go on checking it out. 1395 01:08:45,100 --> 01:08:47,060 I got the thermal imager on and everything, 1396 01:08:47,060 --> 01:08:48,860 and I'm walking through and you can hear it. 1397 01:08:48,860 --> 01:08:52,540 It's like, what is that? 1398 01:08:52,540 --> 01:08:56,220 And so walking around, and so we're back in this bathroom 1399 01:08:56,220 --> 01:09:01,220 and some buzzing, and kind of locate the sound, 1400 01:09:02,300 --> 01:09:04,500 and I open up the drawer, and sure enough, 1401 01:09:04,500 --> 01:09:07,660 there's something in there buzzing away. 1402 01:09:07,660 --> 01:09:12,660 And so you can probably put two into the other. 1403 01:09:13,100 --> 01:09:15,740 And instinctively, I was gonna reach in and grab it, 1404 01:09:15,740 --> 01:09:17,740 and I didn't, and then I closed it. 1405 01:09:17,740 --> 01:09:19,820 And I remember turning around, 1406 01:09:19,820 --> 01:09:22,380 and they say, well, what is it? 1407 01:09:22,380 --> 01:09:27,020 And the officer goes, well, it's yours, 1408 01:09:27,020 --> 01:09:28,380 and it's in the drawer. 1409 01:09:29,500 --> 01:09:31,340 And the look on their face was like, 1410 01:09:32,380 --> 01:09:35,060 and I couldn't hold it together, 1411 01:09:35,060 --> 01:09:38,180 so me and the driver at the time, 1412 01:09:38,180 --> 01:09:41,380 we just left and went out back to the rig. 1413 01:09:41,380 --> 01:09:45,700 So there's these funny times too that I think of. 1414 01:09:47,660 --> 01:09:50,020 Some of the other calls are just, you know, 1415 01:09:50,020 --> 01:09:55,020 the first fire where you're complete shit show, 1416 01:09:55,580 --> 01:09:57,220 and then you finally figure it out, 1417 01:09:57,220 --> 01:09:59,940 and you actually do what you signed up to do. 1418 01:09:59,940 --> 01:10:04,940 And I can remember, 1419 01:10:05,540 --> 01:10:08,740 we were implementing new hose lines, 1420 01:10:08,740 --> 01:10:13,100 and talking about bulk loads and all these other things, 1421 01:10:13,100 --> 01:10:16,420 and the crew and I, we had trained a ton 1422 01:10:16,420 --> 01:10:18,980 on what's our plan A. 1423 01:10:20,380 --> 01:10:21,540 One line goes to the door. 1424 01:10:21,540 --> 01:10:25,220 If it's a two line fire, what that meant for us 1425 01:10:25,220 --> 01:10:27,900 was one fire's going to just do an initial knockdown, 1426 01:10:27,900 --> 01:10:29,300 and one's going to the front door, 1427 01:10:29,300 --> 01:10:31,260 so we're always going to go, 1428 01:10:31,260 --> 01:10:33,660 we were always going to make entry if we could, 1429 01:10:33,660 --> 01:10:36,580 but if we needed to knock it down, we would knock it down. 1430 01:10:36,580 --> 01:10:38,500 Well, I kept, caught a 360, 1431 01:10:38,500 --> 01:10:43,500 and so all of that training kind of paid off. 1432 01:10:43,540 --> 01:10:47,820 Well, one of our firefighters were off that day, 1433 01:10:47,820 --> 01:10:49,900 but the other one was on, 1434 01:10:49,900 --> 01:10:54,900 so we show up, it's late three, probably three in the morning. 1435 01:10:54,900 --> 01:10:58,740 It's in our neighboring agent, 1436 01:10:58,740 --> 01:11:01,100 our neighboring company's first day, 1437 01:11:01,100 --> 01:11:04,100 so we get out the door, and we're headed out, 1438 01:11:04,980 --> 01:11:07,660 and I'm looking up there, and I'm like, where are they? 1439 01:11:07,660 --> 01:11:09,460 And I can see the lights, 1440 01:11:09,460 --> 01:11:12,060 and so when they came out of their station, 1441 01:11:12,060 --> 01:11:13,440 setting going left, they went right, 1442 01:11:13,440 --> 01:11:14,700 which whatever didn't matter, 1443 01:11:14,700 --> 01:11:17,100 there's probably a six one, 1444 01:11:17,100 --> 01:11:18,860 there's none of the other to get there, 1445 01:11:18,860 --> 01:11:20,380 but as we're coming up, I'm thinking, 1446 01:11:20,380 --> 01:11:22,460 oh, we're going to be first in, 1447 01:11:22,460 --> 01:11:27,460 and so we got there, fire's blowing out of the garage, 1448 01:11:28,300 --> 01:11:30,900 it's extended up onto, there was a split entry home, 1449 01:11:30,900 --> 01:11:35,180 so it's blowing up on the main entry, 1450 01:11:35,180 --> 01:11:37,100 and so I just say, hey, 1451 01:11:37,100 --> 01:11:39,700 if you get my initial reports, a two line fire, 1452 01:11:39,700 --> 01:11:44,380 so the one firefighter jumps out, grabs a two and a half, 1453 01:11:44,380 --> 01:11:47,980 goes to the garage, as I'm heading for the 360, 1454 01:11:47,980 --> 01:11:49,660 well, first to the front door to make it open, 1455 01:11:49,660 --> 01:11:51,580 I kind of check conditions there first, 1456 01:11:51,580 --> 01:11:55,060 and I went around to catch the Charlie side, 1457 01:11:55,060 --> 01:12:00,060 and I can hear the firefighter yell to the other firefighter, 1458 01:12:01,540 --> 01:12:03,060 inch and three quarter front door, 1459 01:12:03,060 --> 01:12:06,020 so I'm like, cool, all our training's paying off, 1460 01:12:06,020 --> 01:12:09,260 and so I come around, back around, 1461 01:12:09,260 --> 01:12:10,460 I come back to the front door, 1462 01:12:10,460 --> 01:12:14,580 and my plan was always catch a 360 front door, mask up, 1463 01:12:14,580 --> 01:12:17,460 and then I will shag hose at the front door, 1464 01:12:17,460 --> 01:12:21,460 so the fire tech team can get in there, 1465 01:12:21,460 --> 01:12:22,740 the nozzle on the heel, 1466 01:12:23,660 --> 01:12:26,660 and so the firefighter looks over at me, 1467 01:12:26,660 --> 01:12:29,180 sees that I'm masking up, he had masked up, 1468 01:12:29,180 --> 01:12:31,980 well, holding the two and a half between his legs, 1469 01:12:31,980 --> 01:12:34,500 knocked down initial fire in the garage, 1470 01:12:34,500 --> 01:12:37,140 saw me masking up, shut down the line, 1471 01:12:37,140 --> 01:12:40,580 runs over, grabs the nozzle, goes up, 1472 01:12:40,580 --> 01:12:42,340 he would say, hey, fires up to the right, 1473 01:12:42,340 --> 01:12:45,500 goes up to the right, they kind of seal it off, 1474 01:12:45,500 --> 01:12:48,220 knock it out, I peel off, I go search, 1475 01:12:48,220 --> 01:12:49,740 kind of that first floor, 1476 01:12:49,740 --> 01:12:53,300 and it was just like, that's the moment that I knew, 1477 01:12:53,300 --> 01:12:58,100 hey, all of our training and practice just paid off, 1478 01:12:58,100 --> 01:13:00,700 and we just operated that way, 1479 01:13:00,700 --> 01:13:03,180 so those are some of those fun, fun calls, 1480 01:13:03,180 --> 01:13:08,180 and I can remember one where I went to go mask up 1481 01:13:09,220 --> 01:13:11,420 and go in the door, and in the time that, 1482 01:13:11,420 --> 01:13:14,220 when I had got out of the rig 1483 01:13:14,220 --> 01:13:16,660 and kneeled at the front door to mask up, 1484 01:13:16,660 --> 01:13:19,660 the strap on my face piece had come out, 1485 01:13:19,660 --> 01:13:21,780 and I'm like, well, crap, 1486 01:13:21,780 --> 01:13:26,580 so thankfully I was able to get it all put together 1487 01:13:26,580 --> 01:13:29,220 and mask up again before even the second dude got there, 1488 01:13:29,220 --> 01:13:31,140 and so there's all those just little fun, 1489 01:13:32,140 --> 01:13:35,700 fun little calls, but yeah. 1490 01:13:36,740 --> 01:13:39,500 Very cool, yeah, it's amazing, 1491 01:13:39,500 --> 01:13:40,780 I don't think most people realize 1492 01:13:40,780 --> 01:13:43,980 what an organized chaos most fire grounds are, 1493 01:13:43,980 --> 01:13:47,220 and occasionally you get those flows, even with codes, 1494 01:13:47,220 --> 01:13:48,860 I mean, I've had so many messy codes, 1495 01:13:48,860 --> 01:13:50,980 so things going wrong left, right, and center, 1496 01:13:50,980 --> 01:13:53,220 but you get those sometimes, 1497 01:13:53,220 --> 01:13:55,340 it was a guy, I think I've said this before, 1498 01:13:55,340 --> 01:13:58,620 but kind of just had a full on, 1499 01:13:59,660 --> 01:14:02,580 just collapsed in a kennel, 1500 01:14:02,580 --> 01:14:05,380 and it ended up being a brain bleed, 1501 01:14:05,380 --> 01:14:10,380 but the code went so well where you walked away knowing, 1502 01:14:11,820 --> 01:14:14,100 I mean, again, like you said, so sad that he didn't, 1503 01:14:14,100 --> 01:14:17,100 and again, the proximity of his family in that call 1504 01:14:17,100 --> 01:14:19,940 is something that, again, like you said, doesn't haunt me, 1505 01:14:19,940 --> 01:14:21,780 but if you ask what some of the shittiest calls, 1506 01:14:21,780 --> 01:14:24,220 it wasn't the grotesque stuff I saw, 1507 01:14:24,220 --> 01:14:25,860 it was filling in an EMS report 1508 01:14:25,860 --> 01:14:28,860 on someone I couldn't save six feet from their family, 1509 01:14:28,860 --> 01:14:31,660 while they're being told by the doctor they didn't make it, 1510 01:14:32,820 --> 01:14:36,340 but so when that goes well, it is amazing, 1511 01:14:36,340 --> 01:14:39,020 because you train and you do your best every time, 1512 01:14:39,020 --> 01:14:41,940 but I don't think people realize that the chaos 1513 01:14:41,940 --> 01:14:44,100 that is trying to do our job in the real world, 1514 01:14:44,100 --> 01:14:47,300 whether it's the fireside or the EMS. 1515 01:14:47,300 --> 01:14:51,020 Yeah, and I can only think in all of the codes 1516 01:14:51,940 --> 01:14:56,940 that have been on, I wanna say one confirmed save, 1517 01:14:57,380 --> 01:14:59,940 and we later met her, 1518 01:14:59,940 --> 01:15:03,580 and then the other one was they said, 1519 01:15:03,580 --> 01:15:04,980 yeah, no, that person survived, 1520 01:15:04,980 --> 01:15:07,820 but I didn't ever meet that person again, 1521 01:15:07,820 --> 01:15:12,820 and the one that was the true code save, we had trained, 1522 01:15:16,500 --> 01:15:19,580 we all had our roles, we had it down, 1523 01:15:19,580 --> 01:15:23,020 like if we had a CPR call first hand, 1524 01:15:23,020 --> 01:15:25,340 I was on the chest every single time, 1525 01:15:25,340 --> 01:15:26,740 well, I shouldn't say every single time, 1526 01:15:26,740 --> 01:15:28,860 because there one time I wasn't, 1527 01:15:28,860 --> 01:15:30,940 and that code didn't go as well, 1528 01:15:30,940 --> 01:15:34,380 like just for us as our system, 1529 01:15:34,380 --> 01:15:39,380 and so it was more nasty in a buffet restaurant, 1530 01:15:39,700 --> 01:15:41,860 so you can imagine, so after that one said, 1531 01:15:41,860 --> 01:15:44,460 and that is why we stick to our planning, 1532 01:15:44,460 --> 01:15:49,460 but anyway, so we get there, 1533 01:15:49,540 --> 01:15:53,620 and it's in the lobby of a local store, 1534 01:15:53,620 --> 01:15:58,620 and the 42 years old, so just a couple years younger 1535 01:15:58,940 --> 01:16:03,380 than where I am now, and walk in and just on the floor, 1536 01:16:03,380 --> 01:16:08,060 and so it's boom, on the chest, start doing compressions, 1537 01:16:08,060 --> 01:16:12,540 and the other EMT is getting airway stuff figured out, 1538 01:16:12,540 --> 01:16:14,180 and the second rig gets there, 1539 01:16:14,180 --> 01:16:19,180 and we ultimately ended up meeting her later on, 1540 01:16:20,860 --> 01:16:22,700 and at the time she had, 1541 01:16:22,700 --> 01:16:25,420 I wanna say her three year old son, 1542 01:16:25,420 --> 01:16:29,420 and so we got to meet him and the husband as well, 1543 01:16:29,420 --> 01:16:34,420 and so it's those moments that I reflect on 1544 01:16:34,540 --> 01:16:39,540 and really reminds me of why we do what we do, 1545 01:16:41,380 --> 01:16:46,380 why we train, why we have our planning already figured out, 1546 01:16:46,780 --> 01:16:49,140 so we're not figuring it out when we get there, 1547 01:16:50,300 --> 01:16:52,060 unless you have to call an audible, 1548 01:16:52,060 --> 01:16:53,860 which is always that, call the play, 1549 01:16:53,860 --> 01:16:55,340 and if it's an audible, you call it, 1550 01:16:55,340 --> 01:16:58,220 but all things being considered, this is how we run it, 1551 01:16:58,220 --> 01:17:01,140 and so there's no question, we just go to work, 1552 01:17:02,220 --> 01:17:03,700 so it's reflecting on those calls 1553 01:17:03,700 --> 01:17:08,340 that really cements the importance of training and prep, 1554 01:17:08,340 --> 01:17:10,060 and just thinking through, 1555 01:17:10,060 --> 01:17:12,820 what am I gonna do in this situation, or blah, blah, blah, 1556 01:17:12,820 --> 01:17:14,380 so anyways. 1557 01:17:15,900 --> 01:17:19,500 So you've spent quite a bit of time in the fire service now, 1558 01:17:20,420 --> 01:17:23,300 when did you decide that you wanted to start looking 1559 01:17:23,300 --> 01:17:26,420 outside of the walls of our profession 1560 01:17:26,420 --> 01:17:29,140 for leadership mentors, 1561 01:17:29,140 --> 01:17:31,660 and then where did that journey take you? 1562 01:17:31,660 --> 01:17:33,740 That's a great question, thanks James. 1563 01:17:35,100 --> 01:17:38,540 If I could go back a little bit and even start with, 1564 01:17:38,540 --> 01:17:40,620 I think the genesis of my leadership journey, 1565 01:17:40,620 --> 01:17:42,940 just reflecting back, 1566 01:17:42,940 --> 01:17:45,660 I think really goes back to my time 1567 01:17:45,660 --> 01:17:48,260 working with my parents in the restaurants, 1568 01:17:48,260 --> 01:17:52,980 and just watching how they would interact with our employees, 1569 01:17:52,980 --> 01:17:55,020 but then also on the personal side, 1570 01:17:55,020 --> 01:18:00,020 really just watching how our family dynamic 1571 01:18:00,180 --> 01:18:03,700 and having a sister with special needs, 1572 01:18:05,340 --> 01:18:06,620 what that looked like for us, 1573 01:18:06,620 --> 01:18:09,660 and just seeing the decisions and the choices 1574 01:18:09,660 --> 01:18:11,660 that they would make, that some of the trade-offs, 1575 01:18:11,660 --> 01:18:16,540 or even maybe what could be considered sacrifice for others. 1576 01:18:16,540 --> 01:18:21,260 So I think the beginning really goes back to those times, 1577 01:18:21,260 --> 01:18:25,220 and then looking at our time in the restaurants, 1578 01:18:25,220 --> 01:18:29,380 it was how did they come alongside other people? 1579 01:18:29,380 --> 01:18:30,220 And so they would, 1580 01:18:30,220 --> 01:18:35,220 and we have one of our previous restaurant managers 1581 01:18:35,380 --> 01:18:37,940 that had a desire to become an owner operator, 1582 01:18:37,940 --> 01:18:40,300 and so just watching how my parents 1583 01:18:40,300 --> 01:18:42,980 would come alongside the individuals 1584 01:18:42,980 --> 01:18:46,260 and help, and just meet them where they're at, 1585 01:18:46,260 --> 01:18:51,260 and help them to achieve their goals and stuff, 1586 01:18:52,220 --> 01:18:56,060 and then just the profit sharing, the pay for grades, 1587 01:18:56,060 --> 01:18:59,300 all these other things that they did to just, 1588 01:18:59,300 --> 01:19:02,060 it was all in the spirit of helping others 1589 01:19:02,060 --> 01:19:06,220 and challenging others to be who they wanted to become. 1590 01:19:06,220 --> 01:19:09,820 And then fast forward to the fire service, 1591 01:19:09,820 --> 01:19:14,260 it was really probably around the time, 1592 01:19:14,260 --> 01:19:17,380 around 2016, 2017, 1593 01:19:17,380 --> 01:19:19,780 when I went into training for the first time, 1594 01:19:21,780 --> 01:19:26,220 and really setting up kind of our program for academies 1595 01:19:26,220 --> 01:19:28,740 and how we train people and how we bring, 1596 01:19:28,740 --> 01:19:31,260 how we develop the fundamental skills 1597 01:19:31,260 --> 01:19:34,100 and build on top of that to then pass on to operations 1598 01:19:34,100 --> 01:19:36,420 to then take what, hopefully we built 1599 01:19:36,420 --> 01:19:38,300 the strong foundation and training, 1600 01:19:38,300 --> 01:19:41,820 and then now operations role is to really build on that 1601 01:19:41,820 --> 01:19:43,740 and integrate, and now how do we actually 1602 01:19:43,740 --> 01:19:45,180 take these lessons and apply it? 1603 01:19:45,180 --> 01:19:48,420 But through that whole process, 1604 01:19:48,420 --> 01:19:51,140 I went through probably one of the biggest 1605 01:19:51,140 --> 01:19:54,460 career challenges and disappointments in my life, 1606 01:19:54,460 --> 01:19:59,460 and had designed a program that ultimately, 1607 01:20:00,500 --> 01:20:04,820 I think I pushed, I don't think, I know I pushed too far. 1608 01:20:05,980 --> 01:20:08,740 I knew just enough to be dangerous, so to speak, 1609 01:20:08,740 --> 01:20:10,340 and I pushed a little bit too far, 1610 01:20:10,340 --> 01:20:13,980 and so I ultimately was reassigned out. 1611 01:20:15,260 --> 01:20:20,260 And so that really, I think, was what springboarded for me, 1612 01:20:20,420 --> 01:20:24,340 like how can we do better in the whole process 1613 01:20:24,340 --> 01:20:29,340 of how do we have those maybe difficult conversations, 1614 01:20:29,380 --> 01:20:33,780 or how do we just seek to understand or to learn, 1615 01:20:33,780 --> 01:20:37,700 or how do we properly investigate things 1616 01:20:37,700 --> 01:20:41,700 instead of just the tendency to just cancel? 1617 01:20:41,700 --> 01:20:45,820 And then where does the learning take place 1618 01:20:45,820 --> 01:20:49,020 if all we do is cancel, and then we move on? 1619 01:20:49,020 --> 01:20:51,260 And so that was part of it, 1620 01:20:52,340 --> 01:20:56,620 and then just watching over the course of, 1621 01:20:56,620 --> 01:20:59,220 at that time it would have been 15 years or 20 years, 1622 01:20:59,220 --> 01:21:01,580 now it's 20 years, but at that time, 1623 01:21:01,580 --> 01:21:06,580 just watching the isms at play in the fire service, 1624 01:21:06,580 --> 01:21:08,980 whether that's the cronyisms, the favoritisms, 1625 01:21:08,980 --> 01:21:11,260 all the other isms that come in, 1626 01:21:11,260 --> 01:21:14,740 and just seeing how that has impacted 1627 01:21:14,740 --> 01:21:18,140 the trajectory of some people's careers or other groups, 1628 01:21:18,140 --> 01:21:23,140 or who gets what, and what is a fair or equitable process 1629 01:21:26,300 --> 01:21:28,700 for all of those things while taking into account 1630 01:21:28,700 --> 01:21:32,100 some of the other kind of soft, maybe soft skills. 1631 01:21:32,100 --> 01:21:35,020 So that's really kind of where it started. 1632 01:21:36,780 --> 01:21:41,780 And then, so I mentioned I was reassigned back out 1633 01:21:41,900 --> 01:21:44,860 on operations, and that was actually a time 1634 01:21:44,860 --> 01:21:47,380 where I took a step back. 1635 01:21:47,380 --> 01:21:50,060 I said it was a very difficult time for me. 1636 01:21:50,060 --> 01:21:52,580 It was probably one of my biggest career failures 1637 01:21:52,580 --> 01:21:55,860 when I look at it, and I actually got to the point 1638 01:21:55,860 --> 01:21:58,940 where I was ready to leave the organization, 1639 01:21:58,940 --> 01:22:03,100 that I was working for, and seek opportunity elsewhere. 1640 01:22:04,980 --> 01:22:09,980 And it really was, to kind of put it in terms 1641 01:22:10,740 --> 01:22:12,340 that you've used in the past, 1642 01:22:12,340 --> 01:22:14,900 it was that organizational betrayal, 1643 01:22:14,900 --> 01:22:16,740 but it wasn't just one-sided. 1644 01:22:16,740 --> 01:22:18,420 It was all-sided. 1645 01:22:18,420 --> 01:22:20,620 It was labor, it was administration, 1646 01:22:20,620 --> 01:22:23,620 it was all these other things, at least that's how it felt. 1647 01:22:25,740 --> 01:22:28,260 And really, it was a time where I was ready 1648 01:22:28,260 --> 01:22:32,060 to quit, and really it was like I was done. 1649 01:22:32,060 --> 01:22:36,180 I was ready to quit and go somewhere else. 1650 01:22:36,180 --> 01:22:39,460 And I was challenging that decision, 1651 01:22:39,460 --> 01:22:42,740 and I was kind of on my own doing that. 1652 01:22:42,740 --> 01:22:47,260 I mean, I had external resources helping me process that 1653 01:22:47,260 --> 01:22:48,660 and walk that journey. 1654 01:22:50,260 --> 01:22:53,420 But I was ready to go, and I'd actually applied 1655 01:22:53,420 --> 01:22:58,180 to other organizations, and it's funny to look back on now, 1656 01:22:58,180 --> 01:23:03,180 because I tend to pay attention to the details, 1657 01:23:03,620 --> 01:23:05,700 and I'm not perfect, so I miss things. 1658 01:23:05,700 --> 01:23:09,780 And in this particular case, I'd applied for a position 1659 01:23:09,780 --> 01:23:14,780 that was pretty fitting to my skill set and whatnot. 1660 01:23:15,780 --> 01:23:20,780 And I didn't make it past the application process, 1661 01:23:20,780 --> 01:23:23,780 and so I reached out and asked what happened. 1662 01:23:23,780 --> 01:23:26,580 And in my research, I figured out 1663 01:23:26,580 --> 01:23:31,580 that I had attached the wrong attachment. 1664 01:23:31,900 --> 01:23:33,780 I had just attached the questions, 1665 01:23:33,780 --> 01:23:36,500 but I hadn't included my responses, 1666 01:23:36,500 --> 01:23:38,260 and so in all this shuffle and everything. 1667 01:23:38,260 --> 01:23:42,460 So when I look back, that was kind of the, to me, 1668 01:23:42,460 --> 01:23:45,820 that was the universe saying, yeah, you're not done yet. 1669 01:23:45,820 --> 01:23:47,500 Your work isn't over. 1670 01:23:47,500 --> 01:23:49,660 There's something that you need to do, 1671 01:23:50,740 --> 01:23:53,620 or there's a reason you're walking through this process. 1672 01:23:53,620 --> 01:23:56,620 And so I took some extended time off. 1673 01:23:56,620 --> 01:23:58,460 I had a medical procedure done, 1674 01:23:58,460 --> 01:24:01,340 and that allowed me to take some more time off. 1675 01:24:02,380 --> 01:24:04,300 And then another opportunity opened up 1676 01:24:04,300 --> 01:24:07,340 to go back in to training. 1677 01:24:07,340 --> 01:24:11,820 And so I put my name in the hat again, was told no, 1678 01:24:13,180 --> 01:24:16,860 and then there was some shift in personnel, 1679 01:24:16,860 --> 01:24:19,220 people retired, so on and so forth. 1680 01:24:19,220 --> 01:24:22,540 And the then training chief, the new training chief, 1681 01:24:22,540 --> 01:24:26,180 who is now our fire chief, we had a discussion, 1682 01:24:26,180 --> 01:24:30,420 and he asked if I would come back in. 1683 01:24:30,420 --> 01:24:34,420 And I actually took a pause on that and said, 1684 01:24:34,420 --> 01:24:36,300 let me think about it. 1685 01:24:36,300 --> 01:24:37,900 I'm gonna start my bachelor's degree. 1686 01:24:37,900 --> 01:24:40,420 I'm gonna do all this other stuff. 1687 01:24:41,900 --> 01:24:43,780 And so let me think about it. 1688 01:24:43,780 --> 01:24:45,460 And I was on shift that day. 1689 01:24:45,460 --> 01:24:50,460 And I leaned a little bit on my faith then, 1690 01:24:50,940 --> 01:24:53,420 and kind of just said a prayer to the universe, 1691 01:24:53,420 --> 01:24:54,780 like is this what I'm supposed to do, 1692 01:24:54,780 --> 01:24:55,620 what am I supposed to do? 1693 01:24:55,620 --> 01:24:59,140 And that night, and I worked, at that time, 1694 01:24:59,140 --> 01:25:01,220 I worked at a fire station that, 1695 01:25:02,660 --> 01:25:05,260 we didn't get up at night typically. 1696 01:25:05,260 --> 01:25:08,020 And that night we got up in the middle of the night, 1697 01:25:08,020 --> 01:25:11,420 and we went on one of those nasty calls, 1698 01:25:11,420 --> 01:25:16,420 and I said, okay, I think that's my answer. 1699 01:25:17,420 --> 01:25:20,580 So later on that next day, I called and said, 1700 01:25:20,580 --> 01:25:22,300 all right, I'll come back in. 1701 01:25:22,300 --> 01:25:23,540 So I went back into training, 1702 01:25:23,540 --> 01:25:27,940 and then kind of towards the end of, gosh, it was 21, 1703 01:25:27,940 --> 01:25:31,580 we did pandemic, and I finished out my bachelor's degree, 1704 01:25:31,580 --> 01:25:33,860 and I was kind of given the green light. 1705 01:25:33,860 --> 01:25:36,340 We had started to say, hey, 1706 01:25:36,340 --> 01:25:38,620 let's look at some leadership stuff. 1707 01:25:38,620 --> 01:25:41,140 Let's look at what's out there. 1708 01:25:41,140 --> 01:25:43,740 And so, yeah, it was late, 1709 01:25:43,740 --> 01:25:46,700 probably, maybe actually probably mid-2021, 1710 01:25:46,700 --> 01:25:51,700 I just sent out these requests for information 1711 01:25:51,700 --> 01:25:54,500 or proposals to, gosh, there was probably nine 1712 01:25:54,500 --> 01:25:56,940 or 10 different companies all over the place. 1713 01:25:57,980 --> 01:26:01,100 And then just as they came in with review and whatnot. 1714 01:26:01,100 --> 01:26:03,300 So that's kind of how it started. 1715 01:26:04,980 --> 01:26:09,900 So walk me through just each of the ones that you found, 1716 01:26:09,900 --> 01:26:11,940 and what was unique about them? 1717 01:26:11,940 --> 01:26:12,780 What did you draw? 1718 01:26:12,780 --> 01:26:15,660 Because I mean, this is the beautiful thing about wellness, 1719 01:26:15,660 --> 01:26:17,900 nutrition, fitness, mental health. 1720 01:26:17,900 --> 01:26:18,780 Everyone is different. 1721 01:26:18,780 --> 01:26:20,100 Every department is different. 1722 01:26:20,100 --> 01:26:21,900 The part of the world, the kind of dynamic 1723 01:26:21,900 --> 01:26:24,620 within the department itself. 1724 01:26:24,620 --> 01:26:27,380 So for you on this journey, 1725 01:26:27,380 --> 01:26:29,940 what were the organizations that you found a lot of value, 1726 01:26:29,940 --> 01:26:31,860 and then what was it about them 1727 01:26:31,860 --> 01:26:34,260 that you were able to apply to your department? 1728 01:26:34,260 --> 01:26:39,260 So we had, back in 17, 1729 01:26:40,220 --> 01:26:42,940 a group of us had actually engaged with Echelon Front, 1730 01:26:42,940 --> 01:26:44,300 and three of us were able to go 1731 01:26:44,300 --> 01:26:47,420 to the Extreme Ownership Muster, 1732 01:26:47,420 --> 01:26:49,300 which was pretty, pretty awesome. 1733 01:26:49,300 --> 01:26:53,620 And so one of the companies that we reached out to 1734 01:26:53,620 --> 01:26:55,060 was Echelon Front. 1735 01:26:56,180 --> 01:26:59,780 There was a time when we actually integrated 1736 01:26:59,780 --> 01:27:01,700 the Extreme Ownership book, 1737 01:27:01,700 --> 01:27:05,020 which was a book that we strongly recommended 1738 01:27:05,020 --> 01:27:08,660 as reading before coming onto the organization. 1739 01:27:08,660 --> 01:27:12,100 And so trying to implant the mindset stuff. 1740 01:27:13,220 --> 01:27:16,140 Ultimately, we didn't find a partnership 1741 01:27:16,140 --> 01:27:17,380 in this current journey, 1742 01:27:17,380 --> 01:27:19,420 but we still have that book around, 1743 01:27:19,420 --> 01:27:23,740 and we still will recommend it. 1744 01:27:23,740 --> 01:27:28,060 It's one that I'll loan out or recommend to people. 1745 01:27:28,060 --> 01:27:30,700 But of the groups that we actually reached out to, 1746 01:27:30,700 --> 01:27:32,380 there was All American Leadership, 1747 01:27:33,380 --> 01:27:35,380 there was the Arbinger Institute, 1748 01:27:36,460 --> 01:27:41,460 Sloan, I think, or Slalom is one of the companies. 1749 01:27:42,620 --> 01:27:46,460 And really the ones that we looked deeper into 1750 01:27:46,460 --> 01:27:51,460 were the Arbinger Institute and All American Leadership. 1751 01:27:51,740 --> 01:27:55,020 And ultimately we ended up, 1752 01:27:55,020 --> 01:27:56,820 those are the two that we've been working with, 1753 01:27:56,820 --> 01:28:01,820 but what was really awesome about the All American 1754 01:28:02,100 --> 01:28:07,100 Leadership group is one, it's the authenticity, 1755 01:28:08,460 --> 01:28:10,580 some of the generosity. 1756 01:28:10,580 --> 01:28:12,940 You've had many of the guests on the show, 1757 01:28:12,940 --> 01:28:17,300 it was actually episode 33 with Rob and Rick, 1758 01:28:17,300 --> 01:28:22,300 where that seed was kind of planted with the company 1759 01:28:22,700 --> 01:28:26,500 and just listening to what their values are, 1760 01:28:26,500 --> 01:28:28,820 just the makeup of their team. 1761 01:28:28,820 --> 01:28:31,060 There's a lot of translations across 1762 01:28:31,060 --> 01:28:33,680 when you look at the military side, 1763 01:28:35,380 --> 01:28:38,300 across to the fire service of small teams. 1764 01:28:38,300 --> 01:28:41,780 And so we looked into some of their programs, 1765 01:28:41,780 --> 01:28:46,780 we started off doing the monthly leadership huddles, 1766 01:28:47,100 --> 01:28:52,100 which is a virtual platform and meet on Zoom once a month 1767 01:28:52,860 --> 01:28:54,620 and just dive into some of the topics. 1768 01:28:54,620 --> 01:28:57,020 And that's where I really started to learn 1769 01:28:57,020 --> 01:28:58,620 a little bit more about who they are, 1770 01:28:58,620 --> 01:29:01,780 what they're all about, how they connect other leaders 1771 01:29:01,780 --> 01:29:03,420 from all different industries. 1772 01:29:03,420 --> 01:29:05,940 And so you wouldn't just have fire service, 1773 01:29:05,940 --> 01:29:08,260 but you would have private sector, 1774 01:29:08,260 --> 01:29:11,500 Toyo Tires is one of their other clients. 1775 01:29:11,500 --> 01:29:16,500 And so it was really cool to see that across the board, 1776 01:29:16,940 --> 01:29:19,620 leadership struggles are relatively the same, 1777 01:29:19,620 --> 01:29:22,860 it's just the context that is a little bit different 1778 01:29:22,860 --> 01:29:24,600 or that you're applying it to. 1779 01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:25,900 So that was a start of it. 1780 01:29:27,260 --> 01:29:30,980 Then had the opportunity to engage 1781 01:29:30,980 --> 01:29:33,780 in the fire service leadership academy. 1782 01:29:33,780 --> 01:29:36,580 So we sent three people, myself included, 1783 01:29:36,580 --> 01:29:40,180 to go through the fire service leadership academy, 1784 01:29:40,180 --> 01:29:42,580 and that was over the course of seven months. 1785 01:29:42,580 --> 01:29:46,800 And Robin's team have really done a phenomenal job 1786 01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:51,700 of breaking down this big topic of leadership 1787 01:29:51,700 --> 01:29:55,220 into digestible sections. 1788 01:29:55,220 --> 01:29:58,660 And so it starts with learning to lead yourself 1789 01:29:58,660 --> 01:30:01,660 and learning about yourself and your own triggers 1790 01:30:01,660 --> 01:30:03,660 and your responses to things. 1791 01:30:03,660 --> 01:30:06,420 And then you learn to lead in relationships, 1792 01:30:06,420 --> 01:30:08,460 one or two or three other people maybe. 1793 01:30:08,460 --> 01:30:12,020 And then there's two sessions that are based on that. 1794 01:30:12,020 --> 01:30:16,340 And then you learn to lead in teams for two sessions. 1795 01:30:16,340 --> 01:30:21,060 And then you learn to lead in an organization beyond that. 1796 01:30:21,060 --> 01:30:23,660 And then you actually have to go through this really, 1797 01:30:25,620 --> 01:30:27,580 I guess, profound comes to mind, 1798 01:30:27,580 --> 01:30:31,860 but a really good experience of really establishing 1799 01:30:31,860 --> 01:30:34,340 what is your own personal why 1800 01:30:34,340 --> 01:30:37,540 or your own personal purpose statement, 1801 01:30:37,540 --> 01:30:40,420 and also what are your core values. 1802 01:30:40,420 --> 01:30:45,100 And so just going through that process 1803 01:30:45,100 --> 01:30:47,100 and having to ask those questions, 1804 01:30:47,100 --> 01:30:48,340 like what is my purpose? 1805 01:30:48,340 --> 01:30:50,940 What do I do so that others or so that? 1806 01:30:50,940 --> 01:30:53,420 So there's always a, this is what I'm doing, 1807 01:30:53,420 --> 01:30:54,740 and then it's a so that. 1808 01:30:56,740 --> 01:30:58,660 So that was really a good process. 1809 01:30:58,660 --> 01:31:03,660 And it was concluded with having to give a legacy talk 1810 01:31:05,980 --> 01:31:09,700 on the journey to where you are now, 1811 01:31:09,700 --> 01:31:14,700 and then explain what your commitments 1812 01:31:14,820 --> 01:31:16,540 over the next year are gonna be. 1813 01:31:16,540 --> 01:31:21,300 And so, and those are very deep and personal presentations. 1814 01:31:21,300 --> 01:31:24,100 And it was just really fascinating to just listen 1815 01:31:24,100 --> 01:31:26,900 to other classmates share, 1816 01:31:28,700 --> 01:31:31,580 what their purpose statements were, what their values were, 1817 01:31:31,580 --> 01:31:33,860 how all the materials resonated with them. 1818 01:31:33,860 --> 01:31:38,780 So that was one program that we walked through. 1819 01:31:38,780 --> 01:31:41,140 So three of us went through. 1820 01:31:41,140 --> 01:31:44,620 We currently have four more people going through 1821 01:31:44,620 --> 01:31:46,540 the Leadership Academy right now. 1822 01:31:47,500 --> 01:31:51,940 And then last summer, 1823 01:31:53,740 --> 01:31:57,100 I was very blessed to have the opportunity 1824 01:31:57,100 --> 01:32:02,100 to go on the All-American Leadership Expedition 1825 01:32:02,500 --> 01:32:06,180 that took place outside of Lander, Wyoming 1826 01:32:06,180 --> 01:32:10,620 in the Wind River Mountain Range. 1827 01:32:10,620 --> 01:32:14,700 And so that's a seven day expedition. 1828 01:32:14,700 --> 01:32:16,780 And that's run through the Knowles, 1829 01:32:16,780 --> 01:32:19,660 the National Outdoor Leadership School. 1830 01:32:19,660 --> 01:32:24,660 And Rick Rochelle has spent his entire life working there 1831 01:32:24,940 --> 01:32:29,940 and leading organizations and executives 1832 01:32:30,900 --> 01:32:34,900 and places like NASA and all these other people 1833 01:32:34,900 --> 01:32:38,380 through these courses, where you start to put leadership 1834 01:32:38,380 --> 01:32:42,060 into action. 1835 01:32:43,220 --> 01:32:46,260 And for me, it really helped kind of solidify 1836 01:32:46,260 --> 01:32:47,860 some of the foundational things 1837 01:32:47,860 --> 01:32:52,020 that the All-American Leadership Academy really talked about. 1838 01:32:52,020 --> 01:32:56,820 So, and there's a lot of time for self-reflection. 1839 01:32:56,820 --> 01:33:01,700 Part of that journey is you have to give another 1840 01:33:01,700 --> 01:33:03,460 kind of leadership journey talk. 1841 01:33:03,460 --> 01:33:08,220 So each one of us had to get up in front of our, 1842 01:33:08,220 --> 01:33:10,860 the team and there was nine of us that went. 1843 01:33:10,860 --> 01:33:14,140 And so you're out in this just rugged country 1844 01:33:14,140 --> 01:33:16,700 and beautiful parts of our country. 1845 01:33:16,700 --> 01:33:20,260 It's amazing and sharing your stories. 1846 01:33:20,260 --> 01:33:24,020 And so I learned a lot from that as well. 1847 01:33:24,020 --> 01:33:25,660 And that's, so that's some of the things 1848 01:33:25,660 --> 01:33:27,540 that we're looking at. 1849 01:33:27,540 --> 01:33:31,500 The organization hasn't invested in sending people 1850 01:33:31,500 --> 01:33:34,100 on the Leadership Academy yet. 1851 01:33:34,100 --> 01:33:36,460 Hope maybe that can be an opportunity, 1852 01:33:36,460 --> 01:33:38,940 but we're not quite there yet. 1853 01:33:38,940 --> 01:33:43,860 And then with Arbinger, we've really dove into, 1854 01:33:43,860 --> 01:33:46,260 there's a program called Outward Inclusion. 1855 01:33:46,260 --> 01:33:50,780 And we all can probably cite experiences 1856 01:33:50,780 --> 01:33:54,220 where just the word inclusion just incites 1857 01:33:54,220 --> 01:33:59,220 such an emotional or almost sometimes visceral response. 1858 01:34:00,300 --> 01:34:02,220 And so Arbinger has done a really good job 1859 01:34:02,220 --> 01:34:06,900 of taking a highly emotional and controversial topic 1860 01:34:06,900 --> 01:34:08,860 and really making it accessible 1861 01:34:08,860 --> 01:34:13,860 and really seeking to find our common humanity 1862 01:34:14,700 --> 01:34:16,620 and then building from there. 1863 01:34:16,620 --> 01:34:21,620 And so that's what we've committed to getting 1864 01:34:21,900 --> 01:34:24,020 all of our people trained through that class. 1865 01:34:24,020 --> 01:34:29,020 And we've had Desmond Lomax has been our facilitator 1866 01:34:29,900 --> 01:34:30,740 of that program. 1867 01:34:30,740 --> 01:34:32,580 He's come out twice now. 1868 01:34:32,580 --> 01:34:35,500 And he actually spent his 20 years 1869 01:34:35,500 --> 01:34:40,500 in the Utah corrections in corrections. 1870 01:34:41,380 --> 01:34:43,420 And so institution and then went on 1871 01:34:43,420 --> 01:34:46,140 to become a licensed therapist and whatnot. 1872 01:34:46,140 --> 01:34:50,340 So he understands the public sector's mindset 1873 01:34:50,340 --> 01:34:53,420 and was able to take this challenging topic 1874 01:34:53,420 --> 01:34:56,580 and make it accessible and for our folks 1875 01:34:56,580 --> 01:35:00,140 and then not make people feel called out 1876 01:35:00,140 --> 01:35:03,380 or in one instance, somebody shared with me 1877 01:35:03,380 --> 01:35:06,180 that it didn't demonize anybody 1878 01:35:06,180 --> 01:35:08,460 and it really was very self-reflective. 1879 01:35:08,460 --> 01:35:12,140 So we've gotten a lot of positive responses 1880 01:35:12,140 --> 01:35:13,900 from that program. 1881 01:35:13,900 --> 01:35:16,000 So those have been the two. 1882 01:35:17,260 --> 01:35:18,100 Beautiful. 1883 01:35:18,100 --> 01:35:21,420 Well, there's a couple of things I wanna ask you. 1884 01:35:21,420 --> 01:35:26,420 Firstly, in the 14 years that I spent in uniform, 1885 01:35:26,960 --> 01:35:29,500 I watched four different departments. 1886 01:35:29,500 --> 01:35:31,500 People get hired, people get promoted 1887 01:35:31,500 --> 01:35:35,700 and it was the same, the certifications 1888 01:35:35,700 --> 01:35:36,980 that these men and women needed 1889 01:35:36,980 --> 01:35:40,300 to get the bugles on their lapel. 1890 01:35:40,300 --> 01:35:44,700 But I didn't really see any leadership training. 1891 01:35:44,700 --> 01:35:46,380 And so of course there were some people 1892 01:35:46,380 --> 01:35:48,220 that were great firefighters and engineers 1893 01:35:48,220 --> 01:35:50,060 that became great lieutenants and captains 1894 01:35:50,060 --> 01:35:52,860 because they were already understanding those principles 1895 01:35:52,860 --> 01:35:54,900 as a senior man or whatever it was. 1896 01:35:54,900 --> 01:35:57,660 But then conversely in this very young fire department 1897 01:35:57,660 --> 01:36:00,340 where a lot of people are flying up the ladder, 1898 01:36:00,340 --> 01:36:03,220 chasing the money and I understand 1899 01:36:03,220 --> 01:36:04,760 overworked and underpaid, I get it, 1900 01:36:04,760 --> 01:36:08,020 but it doesn't create a good on-ramp 1901 01:36:08,020 --> 01:36:12,020 for understanding teamwork, community leadership. 1902 01:36:12,020 --> 01:36:15,940 So what have you seen as far as the wider spectrum 1903 01:36:15,940 --> 01:36:19,300 on promotion versus leadership training 1904 01:36:19,300 --> 01:36:20,860 in the fire service in the US? 1905 01:36:21,980 --> 01:36:24,700 Yeah, that's a great, great question. 1906 01:36:24,700 --> 01:36:28,040 So many things come to mind. 1907 01:36:28,040 --> 01:36:29,920 You're starting to see the shift. 1908 01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:33,520 I think the fire service is realizing 1909 01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:37,360 exactly what you said is we're promoting 1910 01:36:37,360 --> 01:36:42,280 based on technical competence in let's say operations 1911 01:36:42,280 --> 01:36:44,540 or crisis mitigation. 1912 01:36:44,540 --> 01:36:49,540 And so you just promote up through the ranks on that side. 1913 01:36:49,540 --> 01:36:54,540 And I think we're starting to see what the outcomes 1914 01:36:56,060 --> 01:36:57,760 of that have been. 1915 01:36:57,760 --> 01:37:01,580 And so I'm starting to see more talk 1916 01:37:01,580 --> 01:37:05,400 about the leadership component and what that actually means 1917 01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:10,400 and how to maybe connect with people. 1918 01:37:11,860 --> 01:37:13,820 You know, when you think about, 1919 01:37:14,900 --> 01:37:18,060 or at least when I think about operations 1920 01:37:18,060 --> 01:37:21,100 and my time in operations and being in the fire stations 1921 01:37:21,100 --> 01:37:23,880 and on the apparatus and responding, 1922 01:37:26,020 --> 01:37:28,940 that's a small percentage of what we do. 1923 01:37:29,820 --> 01:37:34,600 And we spend the majority of our time training on that stuff, 1924 01:37:34,600 --> 01:37:39,060 which is what we need to do because lives depend on that. 1925 01:37:39,060 --> 01:37:41,020 But we don't spend a lot of time in just 1926 01:37:41,020 --> 01:37:43,100 how do we do the personnel side of things? 1927 01:37:43,100 --> 01:37:48,100 And part of the journey of finding these different programs 1928 01:37:50,260 --> 01:37:53,340 was it started as this whiteboard sketch, 1929 01:37:53,340 --> 01:37:57,820 and then it turned into a nice little paper document 1930 01:37:57,820 --> 01:38:00,780 that we actually broke apart and we put our people 1931 01:38:00,780 --> 01:38:02,460 at the center of this document. 1932 01:38:02,460 --> 01:38:04,260 And then we split it up and we said, 1933 01:38:04,260 --> 01:38:08,480 okay, look, we've got our people or you take a person 1934 01:38:08,480 --> 01:38:10,620 and we broke it up into, 1935 01:38:10,620 --> 01:38:13,540 I wanna say it's three categories if I remember it. 1936 01:38:13,540 --> 01:38:15,580 We have clarity, which we can talk about 1937 01:38:15,580 --> 01:38:18,740 as our mind or mindset or are we, 1938 01:38:18,740 --> 01:38:23,540 do we know, are we connected to our purpose and our mission? 1939 01:38:23,540 --> 01:38:25,340 Do we have knowledge of that? 1940 01:38:25,340 --> 01:38:28,660 And then there's the heart side of things, 1941 01:38:28,660 --> 01:38:32,420 which can be our cultural competency. 1942 01:38:32,420 --> 01:38:35,460 And when I say cultural, it's more of 1943 01:38:35,460 --> 01:38:38,340 how do we interact with each other? 1944 01:38:38,340 --> 01:38:43,340 It's our values plus our behaviors. 1945 01:38:43,940 --> 01:38:45,660 That's what equals our culture. 1946 01:38:45,660 --> 01:38:49,660 So it's not like the culture when we talk about diversity 1947 01:38:49,660 --> 01:38:52,280 and things like that, it's even more simple than that. 1948 01:38:52,280 --> 01:38:55,800 Just right now where you and I are having an interaction, 1949 01:38:55,800 --> 01:38:59,120 there's a culture that exists between us. 1950 01:39:00,500 --> 01:39:02,220 So is there a cultural competence? 1951 01:39:02,220 --> 01:39:03,620 And then there's the other side, 1952 01:39:03,620 --> 01:39:05,900 which is there's the technical competence 1953 01:39:05,900 --> 01:39:07,740 or the hands of what we do. 1954 01:39:07,740 --> 01:39:11,580 So head, heart, hands is how that document 1955 01:39:11,580 --> 01:39:14,500 or almost like our people plan, training plan 1956 01:39:14,500 --> 01:39:16,680 has been kind of developed. 1957 01:39:17,660 --> 01:39:20,420 But then even within the technical competency side, 1958 01:39:20,420 --> 01:39:23,180 there's operations, incident response, all that. 1959 01:39:23,180 --> 01:39:27,900 And then there's also the station or the administrative side 1960 01:39:27,900 --> 01:39:30,100 or the interpersonal and some of the interpersonal stuff 1961 01:39:30,100 --> 01:39:31,140 falls under that culture. 1962 01:39:31,140 --> 01:39:34,540 So we're starting to look for us, 1963 01:39:34,540 --> 01:39:37,900 we're starting to identify what sorts of training 1964 01:39:37,900 --> 01:39:41,420 are out there that address all of those things. 1965 01:39:41,420 --> 01:39:43,820 And so what's really cool and exciting 1966 01:39:43,820 --> 01:39:47,100 is I can look at that document now and I can say, 1967 01:39:47,100 --> 01:39:51,140 oh, under the clarity side, we've done an ethos workshop. 1968 01:39:51,140 --> 01:39:53,620 So that's one thing I forgot to mention is, 1969 01:39:53,620 --> 01:39:56,580 so we had All American Leadership come in 1970 01:39:56,580 --> 01:40:01,060 and walk us through a purpose and ethos workshop. 1971 01:40:01,060 --> 01:40:04,580 How are our values lived out is what we could say 1972 01:40:04,580 --> 01:40:05,540 as an ethos. 1973 01:40:06,620 --> 01:40:11,100 And so we got 70 people from our organization volunteered 1974 01:40:11,100 --> 01:40:14,820 to engage in that process and be part of that process. 1975 01:40:14,820 --> 01:40:18,280 And we actually redefined what our purpose statement was. 1976 01:40:18,280 --> 01:40:22,180 And it went from a two line, very hard to remember 1977 01:40:22,180 --> 01:40:26,060 and recite statement to something very simple 1978 01:40:26,060 --> 01:40:30,020 that most people can just recite off 1979 01:40:30,020 --> 01:40:33,300 the top of their head and it's that we're sworn to serve 1980 01:40:33,300 --> 01:40:35,340 and dedicated to save. 1981 01:40:35,340 --> 01:40:39,020 And that group was made up of administrative 1982 01:40:39,020 --> 01:40:41,820 and operations, all work groups were represented 1983 01:40:41,820 --> 01:40:42,660 to go through that. 1984 01:40:42,660 --> 01:40:45,380 And that purpose statement is what resonated. 1985 01:40:48,140 --> 01:40:49,700 So we're seeing that. 1986 01:40:49,700 --> 01:40:53,780 And then under the cultural competency side of things, 1987 01:40:53,780 --> 01:40:56,580 we've brought in that outward inclusion, 1988 01:40:56,580 --> 01:40:58,180 we've done Leadership Academy. 1989 01:40:58,180 --> 01:41:02,900 There's other opportunities to provide executive coaching 1990 01:41:02,900 --> 01:41:04,380 and other things like that as well 1991 01:41:04,380 --> 01:41:06,780 to help build on those things. 1992 01:41:06,780 --> 01:41:11,780 One of the other guys that I went on the expedition with 1993 01:41:15,620 --> 01:41:18,460 works down at the National Medal of Honor Museum 1994 01:41:18,460 --> 01:41:23,060 and he teaches a program called Training Mission Alignment 1995 01:41:23,060 --> 01:41:26,060 and then Leading in Mission Alignment. 1996 01:41:26,060 --> 01:41:28,380 And so there's all these other ways 1997 01:41:28,380 --> 01:41:30,660 that we can kind of take all these what are, 1998 01:41:30,660 --> 01:41:35,260 I don't know, sometimes very maybe vague 1999 01:41:35,260 --> 01:41:38,300 or nebulous concepts and we can start to hone in 2000 01:41:38,300 --> 01:41:40,740 and figure out how to bring them all into alignment 2001 01:41:40,740 --> 01:41:43,580 so we can move ourselves in the same direction. 2002 01:41:43,580 --> 01:41:47,820 And then moving across onto our technical competency side, 2003 01:41:48,940 --> 01:41:52,820 we've started to develop our own internal office 2004 01:41:52,820 --> 01:41:54,680 or academies and all these other things 2005 01:41:54,680 --> 01:41:58,660 to hit both technical but then also focusing on 2006 01:41:58,660 --> 01:41:59,980 coaching and counseling 2007 01:41:59,980 --> 01:42:03,260 or all these other more difficult topics too. 2008 01:42:03,260 --> 01:42:06,780 So I think all that to say, 2009 01:42:06,780 --> 01:42:10,620 looking at watching what Anthony Castro's retired BC 2010 01:42:10,620 --> 01:42:14,220 out of Sac Metro with trainfirefighters.com, 2011 01:42:15,700 --> 01:42:19,860 you see that he's teaching, providing a lot of programs 2012 01:42:19,860 --> 01:42:23,140 and we actually are working through his commanding 2013 01:42:23,140 --> 01:42:25,980 the Command the Chaos program 2014 01:42:25,980 --> 01:42:29,820 for all of our company officers and chief officers 2015 01:42:29,820 --> 01:42:31,780 are working through that program, 2016 01:42:31,780 --> 01:42:32,820 Calming the Chaos, 2017 01:42:32,820 --> 01:42:36,180 Mastering Fire Ground Command is that program. 2018 01:42:36,180 --> 01:42:38,620 But he also does stuff for promotionals 2019 01:42:38,620 --> 01:42:40,320 and just watching what he's doing 2020 01:42:40,320 --> 01:42:44,260 and having sat through one of his seminars in the past, 2021 01:42:44,260 --> 01:42:49,260 he's focusing on, we've got to train people to do the job, 2022 01:42:49,380 --> 01:42:51,580 not to pass the test. 2023 01:42:51,580 --> 01:42:54,940 But that's a very challenging mindset to get over. 2024 01:42:55,780 --> 01:42:58,980 And I've scratched my head a lot trying to figure out, 2025 01:42:58,980 --> 01:43:02,780 how do you get the mindset to shift from, 2026 01:43:02,780 --> 01:43:05,340 oh, we're just checking boxes by doing this academy 2027 01:43:05,340 --> 01:43:08,460 to know we're trying to prepare you for the job, 2028 01:43:08,460 --> 01:43:10,700 prepare you for the role. 2029 01:43:10,700 --> 01:43:12,100 And while doing that, 2030 01:43:15,340 --> 01:43:17,920 it's specific to our organization 2031 01:43:17,920 --> 01:43:22,920 and it also meets the intent of the NFPA standards 2032 01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:26,200 and whatnot, but somewhere in there, 2033 01:43:26,200 --> 01:43:29,860 it's really hard to connect that because it always feels 2034 01:43:29,860 --> 01:43:33,240 like it comes across as over just checking boxes. 2035 01:43:33,240 --> 01:43:35,040 It's like, no. 2036 01:43:35,040 --> 01:43:40,040 So I hope that answered some of your question. 2037 01:43:40,240 --> 01:43:42,280 No, it did because I mean, there is a disconnect 2038 01:43:42,280 --> 01:43:44,440 and you talked a minute ago about some of the resources 2039 01:43:44,440 --> 01:43:46,000 that you found and there's Echelon Front 2040 01:43:46,000 --> 01:43:49,760 and there's all these other great leadership organizations. 2041 01:43:49,760 --> 01:43:52,240 Another thing you talked about mission statement 2042 01:43:52,240 --> 01:43:54,520 and again, four departments, four, 2043 01:43:54,520 --> 01:43:56,600 that means four cities or counties, 2044 01:43:56,600 --> 01:43:59,600 four things that I've been told you need to learn. 2045 01:43:59,600 --> 01:44:03,520 We will strive to uphold the highest level 2046 01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:06,240 of professionalism and badgers and squirrels 2047 01:44:06,240 --> 01:44:08,960 and whatever random words they put into their mission statement 2048 01:44:08,960 --> 01:44:10,520 that no one fucking remembers. 2049 01:44:11,360 --> 01:44:14,120 And it doesn't act, it's a kind of a bullshit term 2050 01:44:14,120 --> 01:44:16,040 because there's no mission behind it. 2051 01:44:16,040 --> 01:44:20,160 A mission has a beginning, an end 2052 01:44:20,160 --> 01:44:23,140 and then the roadmap to how do you get there? 2053 01:44:23,140 --> 01:44:25,720 So for example, I've never been in a fire department 2054 01:44:25,720 --> 01:44:29,920 that says, our mission is to reduce the amount 2055 01:44:29,920 --> 01:44:33,480 of obesity related deaths, reduce the amount of fires, 2056 01:44:33,480 --> 01:44:35,820 the car crash, whatever it is. 2057 01:44:35,820 --> 01:44:37,920 And of course, I'm not talking about fire departments 2058 01:44:37,920 --> 01:44:39,760 have to redesign roads or whatever, 2059 01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:44,440 but what are we doing to move the needle 2060 01:44:44,440 --> 01:44:46,500 on what we're responding to? 2061 01:44:46,500 --> 01:44:49,440 And I had, I think it was with Marine, I had a while ago 2062 01:44:49,440 --> 01:44:51,920 and I remember he was so frustrated 2063 01:44:51,920 --> 01:44:55,280 thinking back to being in Afghanistan 2064 01:44:55,280 --> 01:44:58,000 because he was like, we just showed up every day, 2065 01:44:58,000 --> 01:45:01,640 loaded up into the Humvee, drove down a road, 2066 01:45:01,640 --> 01:45:04,240 if we made it home that night, we went to sleep, 2067 01:45:04,240 --> 01:45:06,500 woke up the next day, drove down the road 2068 01:45:06,500 --> 01:45:08,960 and he said, we never felt like there was a sense 2069 01:45:08,960 --> 01:45:10,880 of a mission and I was like, God, 2070 01:45:10,880 --> 01:45:12,600 that is just like the fire service. 2071 01:45:12,600 --> 01:45:14,120 What do you do at seven in the morning? 2072 01:45:14,120 --> 01:45:15,120 You just show up. 2073 01:45:16,240 --> 01:45:18,400 When you don't look back and go, man, we are 2074 01:45:18,400 --> 01:45:20,960 in a much better place than a year ago. 2075 01:45:20,960 --> 01:45:25,000 And so I think that's a huge, again, layman observation 2076 01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:27,040 because I was never in a quote unquote 2077 01:45:27,040 --> 01:45:28,520 official leadership position, 2078 01:45:28,520 --> 01:45:31,040 but I've never worked for a department, 2079 01:45:31,040 --> 01:45:33,640 I've worked for four and volunteered for a fifth 2080 01:45:33,640 --> 01:45:36,640 for a heartbeat where I've actually understood 2081 01:45:36,640 --> 01:45:37,920 what the mission was. 2082 01:45:37,920 --> 01:45:39,200 What are we trying to do? 2083 01:45:39,200 --> 01:45:44,200 How are we trying to improve life safety, 2084 01:45:44,720 --> 01:45:48,320 improve the way that we even brand ourselves to the public, 2085 01:45:48,320 --> 01:45:50,220 improve relationships with the public. 2086 01:45:50,220 --> 01:45:52,460 It was just, yes, there's a plaque on the wall, 2087 01:45:52,460 --> 01:45:55,220 but ultimately just show up at seven 2088 01:45:55,220 --> 01:45:56,720 and just run your damn calls. 2089 01:45:57,680 --> 01:45:59,120 Yeah. 2090 01:45:59,120 --> 01:46:01,720 Man, there's a lot there, sharing that 2091 01:46:01,720 --> 01:46:06,720 and one of the opportunities I had in this journey 2092 01:46:09,840 --> 01:46:13,920 was actually went down and I'm so thankful 2093 01:46:13,920 --> 01:46:17,840 that Toyo Tires was willing to allow me to do this 2094 01:46:17,840 --> 01:46:19,520 to the CEO, Mike Gravers. 2095 01:46:19,520 --> 01:46:24,440 I'm very grateful, but I wanted to see 2096 01:46:24,440 --> 01:46:27,360 what an in-person leadership academy looked like. 2097 01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:30,200 So I reached out to Rob Nielsen 2098 01:46:30,200 --> 01:46:32,960 and it was just this, sometimes I get these crazy ideas 2099 01:46:32,960 --> 01:46:36,040 and then I just will just reach out 2100 01:46:36,040 --> 01:46:39,520 and then I go through the whole process of, 2101 01:46:39,520 --> 01:46:41,400 is it gonna be a yes or is it gonna be no, blah, blah. 2102 01:46:41,400 --> 01:46:44,520 Anyway, long story short, I ended up having the opportunity 2103 01:46:44,520 --> 01:46:49,520 to go down and attend a in-person leadership academy session 2104 01:46:51,000 --> 01:46:53,360 at Toyo Tires headquarters. 2105 01:46:53,360 --> 01:46:56,680 And Toyo has been working with All American 2106 01:46:56,680 --> 01:46:59,520 and what really stood out to me 2107 01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:01,920 and it really took a lot of the books. 2108 01:47:01,920 --> 01:47:06,120 So one of the books that the leadership academy follows 2109 01:47:06,120 --> 01:47:11,120 is legacy and it's about the history of the all blacks 2110 01:47:12,160 --> 01:47:15,740 and they talk about having rituals and artifacts 2111 01:47:15,740 --> 01:47:16,960 and all these different things. 2112 01:47:16,960 --> 01:47:21,680 And so I went to this leadership academy session 2113 01:47:21,680 --> 01:47:24,560 but it started out with one of the quarterly meetings 2114 01:47:24,560 --> 01:47:26,440 and they started out the meeting 2115 01:47:26,440 --> 01:47:29,440 with what is our purpose statement 2116 01:47:29,440 --> 01:47:32,040 and I've only been to Toyo once 2117 01:47:32,040 --> 01:47:35,820 but I've been able to interact with some of their employees 2118 01:47:35,820 --> 01:47:37,560 since and have built some relationships 2119 01:47:37,560 --> 01:47:39,560 but they start out, what's our purpose? 2120 01:47:39,560 --> 01:47:41,780 We build tires people love. 2121 01:47:41,780 --> 01:47:44,440 And here I am like, I don't work at Toyo 2122 01:47:44,440 --> 01:47:48,200 but I know their purpose statement 2123 01:47:48,200 --> 01:47:51,400 and they talk about their, 2124 01:47:51,400 --> 01:47:52,720 and then they go through their values 2125 01:47:52,720 --> 01:47:54,200 and I don't remember all their values 2126 01:47:54,200 --> 01:47:57,120 but in that particular moment, 2127 01:47:57,120 --> 01:48:00,720 they took a time to recognize and to call out and say, 2128 01:48:00,720 --> 01:48:03,320 does anybody wanna share an example 2129 01:48:03,320 --> 01:48:06,280 of somebody living into our values 2130 01:48:06,280 --> 01:48:07,960 over the last month or quarter 2131 01:48:07,960 --> 01:48:10,560 or whatever that timeframe was? 2132 01:48:10,560 --> 01:48:14,800 And so someone said, yes, I wanna recognize Wendy's team 2133 01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:17,000 for the value of tenacity. 2134 01:48:17,000 --> 01:48:20,720 And so they talked about all of the reasons why 2135 01:48:20,720 --> 01:48:24,880 and how that team lived into tenacity. 2136 01:48:24,880 --> 01:48:27,840 And I thought, man, this is so awesome. 2137 01:48:27,840 --> 01:48:32,840 I'm at a place that is truly living into 2138 01:48:33,320 --> 01:48:36,320 what in a lot of places is just bullshit on the wall. 2139 01:48:36,320 --> 01:48:37,960 Like you said, it's just this piece of paper, 2140 01:48:37,960 --> 01:48:38,880 it's just bullshit. 2141 01:48:40,280 --> 01:48:44,080 But they're actually attempting and being intentional 2142 01:48:44,080 --> 01:48:47,160 to create these spaces and create these opportunities 2143 01:48:47,160 --> 01:48:50,040 to come together, to hear the purpose statement, 2144 01:48:51,520 --> 01:48:52,800 to hear the values 2145 01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:55,480 and then also to share the positives 2146 01:48:55,480 --> 01:48:57,600 of people living into those values. 2147 01:48:58,720 --> 01:49:00,240 And so we went through all that 2148 01:49:00,240 --> 01:49:05,040 and then it's able to get a little notebook 2149 01:49:05,040 --> 01:49:09,160 that actually has, it's nice little notebook 2150 01:49:09,160 --> 01:49:11,320 and it's got their purpose statement in 2151 01:49:11,320 --> 01:49:16,320 and then every page that you turn has their values on it. 2152 01:49:16,480 --> 01:49:20,400 So you just can't get away from seeing what the values are. 2153 01:49:20,400 --> 01:49:23,560 And what's really cool, and that's an artifact now, 2154 01:49:23,560 --> 01:49:27,200 that's something that's there, that's memorable. 2155 01:49:27,200 --> 01:49:30,080 All of their people that I saw there, 2156 01:49:30,080 --> 01:49:34,120 they're still, they didn't have a uniform necessarily, 2157 01:49:34,120 --> 01:49:36,680 but everybody was wearing logoed attire. 2158 01:49:36,680 --> 01:49:41,080 So you knew that they worked for Toyo. 2159 01:49:41,080 --> 01:49:44,400 And so it's really cool to now see some of those things 2160 01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:49,400 showing up in our organization where our values of teams 2161 01:49:49,400 --> 01:49:52,560 trust, empowerment, accountability, mindset and service 2162 01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:54,880 are stamped everywhere. 2163 01:49:54,880 --> 01:49:58,080 And the challenge coin, the new challenge coin 2164 01:49:58,080 --> 01:50:00,480 has our values on it. 2165 01:50:00,480 --> 01:50:03,600 And those values were reaffirmed in that ethos workshop. 2166 01:50:03,600 --> 01:50:08,600 And it was so cool to see after all the work 2167 01:50:09,440 --> 01:50:11,200 that our Fire Chief had gone through 2168 01:50:11,200 --> 01:50:13,880 to establish those to begin with, 2169 01:50:13,880 --> 01:50:16,200 to then be okay to let them go 2170 01:50:16,200 --> 01:50:20,200 and be okay with the people rewriting them if needed. 2171 01:50:20,200 --> 01:50:23,400 And so it's been really exciting to just see 2172 01:50:23,400 --> 01:50:28,400 how we are attempting to be intentional 2173 01:50:28,400 --> 01:50:32,040 to come into alignment and then live out the values 2174 01:50:32,040 --> 01:50:33,680 that are on the piece of paper. 2175 01:50:34,520 --> 01:50:35,920 And then we went a little bit further 2176 01:50:35,920 --> 01:50:39,680 and just started to add little bullet points 2177 01:50:39,680 --> 01:50:41,680 that are some of the behaviors 2178 01:50:41,680 --> 01:50:45,160 that would fall under our rules. 2179 01:50:45,160 --> 01:50:48,320 And so as you're talking about the mission, 2180 01:50:48,320 --> 01:50:51,160 the mission with the Marine, it popped into my mind 2181 01:50:51,160 --> 01:50:55,160 about one of the little bullet statements 2182 01:50:55,160 --> 01:50:58,840 and it's under mindset is we are mission ready. 2183 01:50:59,800 --> 01:51:02,200 And I remember this conversation happening 2184 01:51:02,200 --> 01:51:04,960 amongst one of our administrative groups 2185 01:51:04,960 --> 01:51:06,440 where someone had said, 2186 01:51:06,440 --> 01:51:10,440 yeah, I'm not sure that mission ready really fits. 2187 01:51:10,440 --> 01:51:12,800 Like it was definitely leaning more towards 2188 01:51:12,800 --> 01:51:14,160 it was the mission ready. 2189 01:51:14,160 --> 01:51:18,160 Leaning more towards it was the mission of the fire service 2190 01:51:18,160 --> 01:51:21,880 to go out and save lives and protect property and whatnot. 2191 01:51:21,880 --> 01:51:24,720 And then, so there was a discussion going on. 2192 01:51:24,720 --> 01:51:26,480 This is a room full of 70 people. 2193 01:51:26,480 --> 01:51:28,120 And then from across the room, 2194 01:51:29,160 --> 01:51:30,840 one of our other administrative folks 2195 01:51:30,840 --> 01:51:33,440 who happens to work for this other individual said, 2196 01:51:34,560 --> 01:51:36,600 no, I get it. 2197 01:51:36,600 --> 01:51:39,920 In my role, in my administrative role, 2198 01:51:39,920 --> 01:51:43,880 what mission ready means to me is that, 2199 01:51:43,880 --> 01:51:45,840 I'm coming to work well rested, 2200 01:51:45,840 --> 01:51:49,760 my laptop is ready to go, it's charged up. 2201 01:51:49,760 --> 01:51:53,480 Like I know that my mission is to ensure that, 2202 01:51:53,480 --> 01:51:58,120 my job is done well so that it feeds into supporting 2203 01:51:58,120 --> 01:51:59,560 our overall purpose. 2204 01:51:59,560 --> 01:52:02,200 And after that brief exchange, it was like, 2205 01:52:02,200 --> 01:52:03,960 okay, you're right, it stays. 2206 01:52:03,960 --> 01:52:08,360 And so it was just really cool to see how that process 2207 01:52:08,360 --> 01:52:12,920 really connected our folks both operationally 2208 01:52:12,920 --> 01:52:16,560 and administratively to our purpose and our values. 2209 01:52:16,560 --> 01:52:19,480 And we can start to see what that stuff looks like. 2210 01:52:21,080 --> 01:52:24,080 So you mentioned about being in the training department 2211 01:52:24,080 --> 01:52:26,600 before, being a little bit too, 2212 01:52:26,600 --> 01:52:28,640 whatever adjective you wanna use, 2213 01:52:28,640 --> 01:52:30,800 finding yourself circling around again. 2214 01:52:32,240 --> 01:52:35,560 What would you now advise people as far as, 2215 01:52:35,560 --> 01:52:37,160 who are in a training department, 2216 01:52:37,160 --> 01:52:39,840 who are about to enter a training department, 2217 01:52:39,840 --> 01:52:44,840 the way that you would see the kind of dynamic now in 2024? 2218 01:52:49,120 --> 01:52:53,920 I would say go in and learn history. 2219 01:52:55,600 --> 01:52:58,600 You know, and that spool up period might be pretty short, 2220 01:52:58,600 --> 01:53:00,360 but go in and just try to observe, 2221 01:53:00,360 --> 01:53:05,360 get to understand what the history is, 2222 01:53:05,720 --> 01:53:08,320 what work has already been done, 2223 01:53:08,320 --> 01:53:13,120 what are some of the topics or what's worked, 2224 01:53:13,120 --> 01:53:17,120 what hasn't worked, and really kind of unpack those things. 2225 01:53:19,920 --> 01:53:21,560 And then one of the questions 2226 01:53:23,440 --> 01:53:25,920 I would probably ask myself is, 2227 01:53:25,920 --> 01:53:30,920 what is different now that lends this idea to be successful, 2228 01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:35,480 especially if it's an idea that's a recycling? 2229 01:53:35,480 --> 01:53:40,360 I think when I went into training the first time, 2230 01:53:40,360 --> 01:53:45,120 I was coming off the line and I was a good idea guy 2231 01:53:45,120 --> 01:53:48,160 from the kitchen table and the fire station, 2232 01:53:48,160 --> 01:53:50,920 we have all the answers, we know how it should be done. 2233 01:53:50,920 --> 01:53:52,240 And so we're going through this time 2234 01:53:52,240 --> 01:53:56,720 where we didn't have a consistent academy 2235 01:53:56,720 --> 01:54:00,640 and we were going to hire back somebody, 2236 01:54:00,640 --> 01:54:02,120 a retired person or whatever. 2237 01:54:02,120 --> 01:54:05,720 And so of course I thought that would be as most firefighters 2238 01:54:05,720 --> 01:54:08,120 would and so I went down, marched down 2239 01:54:08,120 --> 01:54:11,440 to that training chief's office one day 2240 01:54:11,440 --> 01:54:14,080 and wanted to share all my good ideas. 2241 01:54:14,080 --> 01:54:19,080 And what I didn't know, I found out later in that meeting 2242 01:54:19,800 --> 01:54:24,360 after he, when I went in and I was sharing all my good ideas 2243 01:54:24,360 --> 01:54:27,280 and what I'm willing to do to help the process and whatnot. 2244 01:54:27,280 --> 01:54:29,920 And I'm really close with this individual, 2245 01:54:29,920 --> 01:54:32,000 we're still really good friends today, 2246 01:54:32,000 --> 01:54:34,840 but he turns and he stands up from his desk 2247 01:54:34,840 --> 01:54:37,280 and he's about as red as you can be. 2248 01:54:37,280 --> 01:54:42,280 And he says, what the fuck do you want me to do, man? 2249 01:54:42,560 --> 01:54:46,800 I mean, shit, they only gave me $10,000. 2250 01:54:46,800 --> 01:54:50,200 So, you know, I feel about a millimeter tall 2251 01:54:50,200 --> 01:54:51,560 because I realized right then and there, 2252 01:54:51,560 --> 01:54:53,040 I don't have a whole story. 2253 01:54:53,880 --> 01:54:55,680 You know, I just see the outcome 2254 01:54:55,680 --> 01:54:58,840 and there's so many decisions and things that are made 2255 01:54:58,840 --> 01:55:01,840 that are so far outside of my purview, I've got no idea. 2256 01:55:01,840 --> 01:55:04,800 And we hugged it out, worked it out, whatever. 2257 01:55:04,800 --> 01:55:07,840 And then a few weeks, a few months later, 2258 01:55:07,840 --> 01:55:09,160 that was my opportunity. 2259 01:55:09,160 --> 01:55:11,280 Like we opened up for an academy coordinator 2260 01:55:11,280 --> 01:55:16,280 and that was my opportunity to step up or shut up. 2261 01:55:16,440 --> 01:55:17,880 Like if I've got all the good ideas 2262 01:55:17,880 --> 01:55:19,520 and I gotta go on there and do it. 2263 01:55:19,520 --> 01:55:22,960 But so I came in like thinking, okay, I got this idea. 2264 01:55:22,960 --> 01:55:26,680 This is what my assignment is to build this, it's that 2265 01:55:26,680 --> 01:55:27,520 and the other thing. 2266 01:55:27,520 --> 01:55:32,520 So, but I didn't stop to really kind of learn kind of the, 2267 01:55:34,760 --> 01:55:37,780 call it the political lay of the land. 2268 01:55:39,680 --> 01:55:43,940 And so I just did what I thought was right. 2269 01:55:45,680 --> 01:55:48,760 And so that's how I would advise people, 2270 01:55:48,760 --> 01:55:50,560 let's go figure out the lay of the land, 2271 01:55:50,560 --> 01:55:53,800 go learn what's been done before, what worked, 2272 01:55:53,800 --> 01:55:54,640 what didn't work. 2273 01:55:54,640 --> 01:55:57,280 If you wanna recycle an idea or try again, 2274 01:55:57,280 --> 01:55:59,240 just ask like, what's different now? 2275 01:55:59,240 --> 01:56:00,840 Has administration changed? 2276 01:56:00,840 --> 01:56:01,920 Does the mindset change? 2277 01:56:01,920 --> 01:56:06,160 Or there's still people in positions now that were then, 2278 01:56:06,160 --> 01:56:07,840 like all those things are gonna factor 2279 01:56:07,840 --> 01:56:09,460 into what you can and can't do. 2280 01:56:10,480 --> 01:56:13,820 And so, yeah, that's what comes to mind. 2281 01:56:15,200 --> 01:56:16,040 Brilliant. 2282 01:56:16,040 --> 01:56:19,000 Well, I wanna put one more kind of concept to you 2283 01:56:19,000 --> 01:56:20,840 and then we'll go to some closing questions. 2284 01:56:20,840 --> 01:56:22,000 I know that it's something that you wanted 2285 01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:23,720 to talk about as well. 2286 01:56:23,720 --> 01:56:27,480 So as anyone who's listened to more than basically 2287 01:56:27,480 --> 01:56:28,480 one episode of this show, 2288 01:56:28,480 --> 01:56:30,120 they'll know I'm a little bit passionate 2289 01:56:30,120 --> 01:56:32,000 about the work week and bringing it down 2290 01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:36,040 because of the fact that it's behind all of the disease 2291 01:56:36,040 --> 01:56:39,080 and death pretty much a huge contributing factor. 2292 01:56:39,080 --> 01:56:41,540 So without loading the question at all, 2293 01:56:41,540 --> 01:56:45,440 what is your perspective of the American Firefighter 2294 01:56:45,440 --> 01:56:47,820 work week and what are your thoughts 2295 01:56:47,820 --> 01:56:49,720 on changing it if at all? 2296 01:56:49,720 --> 01:56:54,060 Man, it is a loaded question. 2297 01:56:54,060 --> 01:56:59,060 And so I've worked, in my career I've worked the 24 48, 2298 01:56:59,380 --> 01:57:01,700 I've worked three 12s, 2299 01:57:01,700 --> 01:57:06,460 and now I've been on a 40 hour work week for, 2300 01:57:08,100 --> 01:57:12,500 if you put it all together, probably about six years, 2301 01:57:12,500 --> 01:57:16,020 but different because it's four 10s versus, 2302 01:57:16,020 --> 01:57:18,100 like a 24 72 or whatnot. 2303 01:57:18,100 --> 01:57:23,100 But what I'll say from my own lived experience 2304 01:57:23,180 --> 01:57:27,020 in and you probably asked, Aubrey, my family this too, 2305 01:57:27,020 --> 01:57:32,020 is I didn't know how much kind of that chronic sleep 2306 01:57:35,780 --> 01:57:38,880 deprivation or the shift work cycle was affecting me 2307 01:57:40,020 --> 01:57:43,680 until I got off of it and then my body shifted. 2308 01:57:43,680 --> 01:57:48,680 And so having now being on a more set schedule, 2309 01:57:51,240 --> 01:57:53,760 like I have a very, I don't wanna say strict, 2310 01:57:53,760 --> 01:57:58,760 but I have a routine and I feel better overall. 2311 01:58:01,800 --> 01:58:05,200 I'm probably in the best health and fitness 2312 01:58:05,200 --> 01:58:06,900 that I've ever been in in my life. 2313 01:58:06,900 --> 01:58:11,900 I don't find myself as irritated or short fused now 2314 01:58:15,400 --> 01:58:18,200 as I did while working shift work. 2315 01:58:19,240 --> 01:58:22,680 One of the things towards the end there is, 2316 01:58:25,480 --> 01:58:30,480 and we were at a one on two off or 24 48 2317 01:58:31,560 --> 01:58:33,600 and we had Kelly days, 2318 01:58:33,600 --> 01:58:36,160 I wouldn't work over my Kelly day break. 2319 01:58:36,160 --> 01:58:39,160 That was kind of a personal rule that I put in place. 2320 01:58:39,160 --> 01:58:42,120 And then, and I also recognize, 2321 01:58:42,120 --> 01:58:47,120 our life choices have been such and Aubrey works. 2322 01:58:47,320 --> 01:58:52,320 And so we have the ability that over time is not something 2323 01:58:53,040 --> 01:58:55,320 that we've ever lived off of. 2324 01:58:56,160 --> 01:58:59,400 So that was a personal choice that we made. 2325 01:58:59,400 --> 01:59:02,800 And yes, what I worked some and yeah, of course. 2326 01:59:02,800 --> 01:59:07,800 But I also came from a family business 2327 01:59:08,100 --> 01:59:10,100 where we worked all the time. 2328 01:59:10,100 --> 01:59:12,980 And I still fight that now in a 40 hour job, 2329 01:59:12,980 --> 01:59:15,420 I probably fight that worse now than I do. 2330 01:59:15,420 --> 01:59:20,420 But so I would use those breaks to get rested 2331 01:59:20,760 --> 01:59:24,120 and recovered and go on trips and decompress. 2332 01:59:26,020 --> 01:59:29,020 And so it's just interesting now to think back 2333 01:59:29,020 --> 01:59:31,100 or even just to listen to the conversations 2334 01:59:31,100 --> 01:59:34,980 of there's so much information that you're putting out there 2335 01:59:34,980 --> 01:59:39,540 about 24 72 and we a year ago, 2336 01:59:39,540 --> 01:59:41,620 yeah, a little over a year ago, 2337 01:59:41,620 --> 01:59:45,580 we negotiated a new schedule D shift, 2338 01:59:45,580 --> 01:59:50,160 but we went to one, two, one, four. 2339 01:59:51,460 --> 01:59:52,940 And now if we want to change that, 2340 01:59:52,940 --> 01:59:54,820 we got to open up the contract and bargain 2341 01:59:54,820 --> 01:59:56,480 to change it to something else. 2342 01:59:56,480 --> 02:00:01,480 But we have dynamic work days or the debit days. 2343 02:00:01,500 --> 02:00:04,540 And so what always fascinated me with a schedule 2344 02:00:04,540 --> 02:00:06,380 and thinking about scheduling changes 2345 02:00:06,380 --> 02:00:10,000 was there's a schedule that's on paper. 2346 02:00:10,000 --> 02:00:14,220 And then there's the schedule that we actually work. 2347 02:00:14,220 --> 02:00:17,860 And when we were 24 48 with Kelly's, 2348 02:00:17,860 --> 02:00:22,860 I for the most part, actually worked at 24 48 with Kelly's 2349 02:00:22,860 --> 02:00:27,640 because I didn't work a ton of overtime 2350 02:00:27,640 --> 02:00:29,200 or these other things. 2351 02:00:30,600 --> 02:00:33,200 And so sometimes I'm like, 2352 02:00:33,200 --> 02:00:35,680 well, what schedule are we actually working? 2353 02:00:35,680 --> 02:00:39,000 Are you actually working a 48 24 48 24? 2354 02:00:39,000 --> 02:00:42,680 Are you actually working 24 48? 2355 02:00:42,680 --> 02:00:47,600 And so yeah, it's just interesting 2356 02:00:47,600 --> 02:00:50,400 because I've read some of the research and you know, 2357 02:00:50,400 --> 02:00:53,640 obviously I've been listening to your show for a long time, 2358 02:00:53,640 --> 02:00:57,960 but it's funny to see out there the worst schedule, 2359 02:00:57,960 --> 02:01:00,760 we can work as though one on one off, one on one off, 2360 02:01:00,760 --> 02:01:02,560 one on four off. 2361 02:01:02,560 --> 02:01:06,560 The best schedule is 24 72, 2362 02:01:06,560 --> 02:01:09,760 but then we go and choose these other schedules 2363 02:01:09,760 --> 02:01:13,760 or we just try to compress it like the 48 96, 2364 02:01:13,760 --> 02:01:16,560 which then you probably are ending up working 2365 02:01:16,560 --> 02:01:18,360 something else. 2366 02:01:18,360 --> 02:01:23,360 Something else or a one that there's a few departments 2367 02:01:24,640 --> 02:01:29,640 in our area that are doing is this 1323 schedule. 2368 02:01:32,320 --> 02:01:34,160 And so I don't know, 2369 02:01:34,160 --> 02:01:37,360 it's just interesting to listen to the conversation 2370 02:01:37,360 --> 02:01:41,440 at one moment where we'll say we need more rest 2371 02:01:41,440 --> 02:01:43,480 and we need this and we need that. 2372 02:01:43,480 --> 02:01:46,400 But then if you actually looked into somebody's calendar, 2373 02:01:46,400 --> 02:01:47,640 is that actually what they're working 2374 02:01:47,640 --> 02:01:51,160 or was there some other motivation behind a schedule change? 2375 02:01:51,160 --> 02:01:53,800 So it's just interesting. 2376 02:01:55,560 --> 02:01:59,080 So it'll be interesting to see how long term 2377 02:01:59,080 --> 02:02:00,120 what the fire service does, 2378 02:02:00,120 --> 02:02:04,380 but in depth save the for us, for me, 2379 02:02:05,520 --> 02:02:09,720 I see the health impacts that changes both mentally, 2380 02:02:09,720 --> 02:02:12,400 physically with working a, you know, 2381 02:02:12,400 --> 02:02:14,540 410 schedule or 40 hour schedule. 2382 02:02:14,540 --> 02:02:17,620 And it's there's a lot of benefits, 2383 02:02:17,620 --> 02:02:22,620 but I also know there's this weird like, 2384 02:02:23,100 --> 02:02:26,300 oh no, I can never see myself working, you know, 2385 02:02:26,300 --> 02:02:27,200 four days a week. 2386 02:02:27,200 --> 02:02:29,840 Oh my gosh, it's this worst, the worst thing ever. 2387 02:02:30,860 --> 02:02:33,180 But I don't know, sometimes I think we're just, 2388 02:02:33,180 --> 02:02:37,780 we can be afraid of change and we don't know how good it is 2389 02:02:37,780 --> 02:02:42,740 until we actually shift and let our bodies reset. 2390 02:02:42,740 --> 02:02:44,940 But yeah. 2391 02:02:46,380 --> 02:02:48,340 Well, it's interesting because you on your notes 2392 02:02:48,340 --> 02:02:53,340 that you sent me that one with a dynamic Kelly days 2393 02:02:53,380 --> 02:02:57,620 or the work days still ends up being a 52.8 hour work week. 2394 02:02:57,620 --> 02:03:00,100 So this is the conversation that, you know, 2395 02:03:01,100 --> 02:03:04,260 I've had a lot where I've used the analogy of a Rubik's cube 2396 02:03:04,260 --> 02:03:05,900 and I'm probably told you this, you know, 2397 02:03:05,900 --> 02:03:10,020 we talk about the cube and we spin the colors. 2398 02:03:10,020 --> 02:03:13,380 And so, oh, not 24, 48, let's do a 48, 96 2399 02:03:13,380 --> 02:03:15,780 or the Anaheim schedule one on one off four times 2400 02:03:15,780 --> 02:03:19,740 and then a four or six, but it's all a 56 hour work week. 2401 02:03:19,740 --> 02:03:23,260 And there's no discussion on why is the cube so fucking big? 2402 02:03:23,260 --> 02:03:25,220 Let's make the whole cube smaller. 2403 02:03:25,220 --> 02:03:28,100 So I think this whole smoke a mirror thing with, 2404 02:03:28,100 --> 02:03:30,920 you know, it's like the cup game in New York, you know, 2405 02:03:30,920 --> 02:03:31,760 where's the chip? 2406 02:03:32,660 --> 02:03:34,740 And so, you know, that's the basal thing. 2407 02:03:34,740 --> 02:03:38,140 And then, then there's going to be this automatic 2408 02:03:38,140 --> 02:03:41,420 internal monologue of, oh, you know, I'm not working less 2409 02:03:41,420 --> 02:03:42,700 or, oh, they're going to cut my wages 2410 02:03:42,700 --> 02:03:45,160 or all the other complete bullshit, you know, 2411 02:03:45,160 --> 02:03:47,580 urban legends around this topic. 2412 02:03:47,580 --> 02:03:49,260 And then you have to frame it just very simply, 2413 02:03:49,260 --> 02:03:51,980 the people that make these decisions about your jobs 2414 02:03:51,980 --> 02:03:53,380 work 40 hours a week. 2415 02:03:53,380 --> 02:03:56,540 Why do you not feel that you and your family deserve you 2416 02:03:56,540 --> 02:03:59,260 to be home the same amount of time that they are? 2417 02:03:59,260 --> 02:04:01,300 That's all it boils down to. 2418 02:04:01,300 --> 02:04:04,660 We devolved from when we used to sit around smoking cigars, 2419 02:04:04,660 --> 02:04:08,780 petting the Dalmatian and waiting for a fire singular. 2420 02:04:08,780 --> 02:04:11,460 Now we are Jack of all trades, master of none, 2421 02:04:11,460 --> 02:04:15,260 running numerous calls every 24, up most of the night. 2422 02:04:15,260 --> 02:04:17,840 And if not still sleeping with one eye open, 2423 02:04:17,840 --> 02:04:20,960 arguably we should be working less than the office worker. 2424 02:04:20,960 --> 02:04:22,540 But for the love of God, 2425 02:04:22,540 --> 02:04:25,140 at least put our fire department back to the same 2426 02:04:25,140 --> 02:04:26,100 as the office work. 2427 02:04:27,240 --> 02:04:31,780 Yeah, you know, it's, you mentioned that I was just sharing 2428 02:04:31,780 --> 02:04:34,060 with one of my office mates the other day, 2429 02:04:34,060 --> 02:04:38,380 how I had a superstition when I was on shift work 2430 02:04:38,380 --> 02:04:41,180 and I wouldn't go to bed before midnight 2431 02:04:42,780 --> 02:04:45,900 because I knew if I went to bed before midnight, 2432 02:04:46,980 --> 02:04:49,180 we'd be getting up at night. 2433 02:04:49,180 --> 02:04:53,460 And so yeah, I would stay up. 2434 02:04:53,460 --> 02:04:57,060 And actually part of how I would operate 2435 02:04:57,060 --> 02:05:01,100 and is during the day when the crew is awake, 2436 02:05:01,100 --> 02:05:04,340 that was my opportunity to be with the crew 2437 02:05:04,340 --> 02:05:06,420 as officer build those relationships. 2438 02:05:06,420 --> 02:05:11,420 And then once the crew went to bed, 2439 02:05:11,660 --> 02:05:13,460 that was my time to do all the quote, 2440 02:05:13,460 --> 02:05:18,340 officer stuff, paperwork or whatever we had. 2441 02:05:18,340 --> 02:05:20,580 And so I would do that after, you know, 2442 02:05:20,580 --> 02:05:23,200 everybody went to bed and then I would stay up. 2443 02:05:23,200 --> 02:05:24,540 And you know, looking back, 2444 02:05:24,540 --> 02:05:26,620 a lot of it was because like you just said, 2445 02:05:27,660 --> 02:05:30,460 we don't know when that tones are gonna go off 2446 02:05:30,460 --> 02:05:33,020 or what could be the worst call ever 2447 02:05:33,020 --> 02:05:36,380 and push us to our limits. 2448 02:05:36,380 --> 02:05:41,380 And for me, I always felt behind the eight ball, 2449 02:05:43,700 --> 02:05:45,380 behind the power curve, 2450 02:05:45,380 --> 02:05:47,480 when I'm waking up from a dead sleep, 2451 02:05:48,660 --> 02:05:52,060 grabbing the pagers or phones off the nightstand, 2452 02:05:52,060 --> 02:05:55,060 trying to get dressed and fumble my way downstairs 2453 02:05:55,060 --> 02:05:57,500 to the rig and then have to get my mind ready for, 2454 02:05:57,500 --> 02:05:58,500 okay, what are we going on? 2455 02:05:58,500 --> 02:06:00,220 Where's people coming from? 2456 02:06:00,220 --> 02:06:01,140 Like, where's the hydrants? 2457 02:06:01,140 --> 02:06:03,700 All the navigating to the call, whatever it is. 2458 02:06:03,700 --> 02:06:06,940 So I always felt behind the power curve. 2459 02:06:06,940 --> 02:06:09,740 And so I would just stay up later 2460 02:06:09,740 --> 02:06:12,220 because I thought, okay, if I stay up later, 2461 02:06:12,220 --> 02:06:15,360 then that means I'm gonna hear the call come in. 2462 02:06:15,360 --> 02:06:17,500 And so that's me kind of engineering 2463 02:06:17,500 --> 02:06:22,500 or buying myself a little bit more processing time. 2464 02:06:22,580 --> 02:06:25,860 So, but then the challenge of that, 2465 02:06:25,860 --> 02:06:29,020 the sabotaging side of that is now I've shortened 2466 02:06:29,020 --> 02:06:31,220 how much I'm actually sleeping 2467 02:06:31,220 --> 02:06:34,420 because now I probably wasn't asleep till one 2468 02:06:34,420 --> 02:06:36,220 because I'm laying in bed looking at the ceiling, 2469 02:06:36,220 --> 02:06:38,720 just waiting for that little red light to go off. 2470 02:06:39,900 --> 02:06:43,980 Or in some cases, you hear the click of the lights 2471 02:06:43,980 --> 02:06:46,180 before anything even happens. 2472 02:06:46,180 --> 02:06:51,180 Or in our old days, you could actually hear the MDC beep 2473 02:06:51,460 --> 02:06:52,580 before everything went. 2474 02:06:52,580 --> 02:06:54,200 And so it's just interesting 2475 02:06:54,200 --> 02:06:56,860 how the body senses all that stuff. 2476 02:06:56,860 --> 02:07:00,660 And so, yeah, so I would probably get what? 2477 02:07:00,660 --> 02:07:04,740 Four or five hours of not awesome sleep 2478 02:07:04,740 --> 02:07:08,020 and then have to be somewhat functional the next day. 2479 02:07:09,100 --> 02:07:14,100 But I'm pretty blessed to have a wife that we met after 2480 02:07:16,480 --> 02:07:18,520 I was in the fire service. 2481 02:07:18,520 --> 02:07:21,740 And she's really been along the journey with me. 2482 02:07:21,740 --> 02:07:24,140 And so she even has helped, you know, 2483 02:07:24,140 --> 02:07:27,700 look over at the recliner and listening to some of our, 2484 02:07:27,700 --> 02:07:29,940 you know, programs, how to survive, you know, 2485 02:07:29,940 --> 02:07:31,740 fire service relationship is, 2486 02:07:31,740 --> 02:07:33,500 hey, sometimes dad's gonna come home 2487 02:07:33,500 --> 02:07:36,020 and he needs to hit that recliner for an hour 2488 02:07:36,020 --> 02:07:37,420 and decompress. 2489 02:07:37,420 --> 02:07:40,980 And so I had that, but not everybody does. 2490 02:07:40,980 --> 02:07:44,060 And that just compounds on things. 2491 02:07:44,060 --> 02:07:49,060 And so, yeah, but it's all gonna come, 2492 02:07:49,300 --> 02:07:51,900 there's something that gets, has to be traded off 2493 02:07:51,900 --> 02:07:53,100 for some of that. 2494 02:07:53,100 --> 02:07:57,140 And there's always a dollar figure 2495 02:07:57,140 --> 02:07:59,700 or a cost associated with those things. 2496 02:07:59,700 --> 02:08:01,680 And that's a hard stuff to pull apart. 2497 02:08:02,700 --> 02:08:06,700 And sometimes we choose, do we want more people? 2498 02:08:06,700 --> 02:08:08,420 And we, in our fast math, you know, 2499 02:08:08,420 --> 02:08:10,460 our coffee table math can be, 2500 02:08:10,460 --> 02:08:12,260 well, more people equals less overtime. 2501 02:08:12,260 --> 02:08:14,100 So then, no, we would rather take the raise, 2502 02:08:14,100 --> 02:08:15,180 have less people. 2503 02:08:15,180 --> 02:08:19,500 And it potentially continues to feed this vicious cycle 2504 02:08:19,500 --> 02:08:22,180 versus more people filling more positions 2505 02:08:22,180 --> 02:08:24,260 as less dynamic days or less whatever, 2506 02:08:24,260 --> 02:08:26,780 but the money's gotta come from somewhere. 2507 02:08:26,780 --> 02:08:30,300 That's the reality of it, is there's a cost. 2508 02:08:30,300 --> 02:08:33,980 And at some point we have to be intellectually honest 2509 02:08:33,980 --> 02:08:37,140 with ourselves about there's a cost to that. 2510 02:08:37,140 --> 02:08:42,140 And so, but if we come together with a common purpose, 2511 02:08:44,720 --> 02:08:48,260 maybe, and maybe some similar values, 2512 02:08:48,260 --> 02:08:50,580 then maybe we can find something that's gonna work 2513 02:08:50,580 --> 02:08:54,340 for everybody instead of it potentially always falling 2514 02:08:54,340 --> 02:08:58,340 into this us versus them type of battle. 2515 02:08:59,740 --> 02:09:03,380 So there's somewhere out there, there's the answer, 2516 02:09:03,380 --> 02:09:07,740 but you know, it takes personal responsibility 2517 02:09:07,740 --> 02:09:11,740 as well as agency responsibility and labor responsibility 2518 02:09:11,740 --> 02:09:12,900 to make it all work. 2519 02:09:12,900 --> 02:09:16,380 It's not just one-sided, so. 2520 02:09:16,380 --> 02:09:17,540 Absolutely. 2521 02:09:17,540 --> 02:09:20,500 Well, and we're going back to the whole mission thing. 2522 02:09:20,500 --> 02:09:22,260 One of the things that infuriates me, 2523 02:09:22,260 --> 02:09:24,860 I mean, this happened locally, we had two suicides, 2524 02:09:25,760 --> 02:09:28,480 was it last year, just over a year ago now, 2525 02:09:28,480 --> 02:09:32,020 within three months of each other, both young men. 2526 02:09:32,020 --> 02:09:33,260 Young, young men. 2527 02:09:33,260 --> 02:09:37,380 And so to me, surely your entire mission statement 2528 02:09:37,380 --> 02:09:40,660 is gonna shift to this has to stop. 2529 02:09:40,660 --> 02:09:42,900 Well, I was part of this research project 2530 02:09:42,900 --> 02:09:45,660 that is trying to present to the county I live in 2531 02:09:45,660 --> 02:09:48,660 to talk about 2472s. 2532 02:09:48,660 --> 02:09:50,260 You should have heard the resistance. 2533 02:09:50,260 --> 02:09:51,660 It was nausea. 2534 02:09:51,660 --> 02:09:56,020 And to me, it's like, so don't show up at the funeral then. 2535 02:09:56,020 --> 02:09:58,040 If you actually don't give a shit, 2536 02:09:58,040 --> 02:10:00,700 then don't fucking show up in the first place, you know? 2537 02:10:00,700 --> 02:10:03,660 But if you actually care about these firefighters 2538 02:10:03,660 --> 02:10:06,380 that are getting cancer and overdosing and suicide 2539 02:10:06,380 --> 02:10:08,620 and heart disease and autoimmune disease 2540 02:10:08,620 --> 02:10:11,080 and all these other things that are happening, 2541 02:10:11,080 --> 02:10:13,460 there's your mission statement right there. 2542 02:10:13,460 --> 02:10:15,700 First thing, yes, we're gonna serve the public 2543 02:10:15,700 --> 02:10:18,480 and everything, but number one is that we're gonna figure out 2544 02:10:18,480 --> 02:10:22,340 all these elements that actually affect our firefighters' 2545 02:10:22,340 --> 02:10:23,700 health and we're gonna change them. 2546 02:10:23,700 --> 02:10:25,820 And the irony is, and I've obviously talked about this 2547 02:10:25,820 --> 02:10:28,780 a huge amount and had some great guests on this, 2548 02:10:28,780 --> 02:10:32,600 the money is there, but it's in the sewer 2549 02:10:32,600 --> 02:10:34,260 because you're flushing it down the toilet 2550 02:10:34,260 --> 02:10:36,620 by working your men and women into the ground. 2551 02:10:36,620 --> 02:10:38,700 So it's all there, the medical retirements, 2552 02:10:38,700 --> 02:10:41,220 the overtime, the lawsuits, I mean, you name it, 2553 02:10:41,220 --> 02:10:44,300 millions and millions and millions of dollars. 2554 02:10:44,300 --> 02:10:47,140 Take some of that money that you're wasting, 2555 02:10:47,140 --> 02:10:50,660 put in a fourth shift, therefore now people are gonna 2556 02:10:50,660 --> 02:10:52,540 wanna test for you because they look on paper like, 2557 02:10:52,540 --> 02:10:54,620 oh wow, they actually care about their people. 2558 02:10:54,620 --> 02:10:56,540 The line goes out the door again for recruitment, 2559 02:10:56,540 --> 02:10:58,960 just like you and I when we first started. 2560 02:10:58,960 --> 02:11:01,620 And now there isn't all this overtime. 2561 02:11:01,620 --> 02:11:03,900 So all the people that were kind of, you know, 2562 02:11:03,900 --> 02:11:06,100 exactly that kind of self-serving, 2563 02:11:06,100 --> 02:11:08,320 I'd rather be away from my family and earn more money 2564 02:11:08,320 --> 02:11:11,320 mentality, which is absolutely fucking insane, 2565 02:11:11,320 --> 02:11:14,160 that goes away because you can't be a firefighter 2566 02:11:14,160 --> 02:11:17,140 at your station apart from occasional overtime. 2567 02:11:17,140 --> 02:11:19,380 But here's the beautiful thing, now you can go 2568 02:11:19,380 --> 02:11:22,300 and find another passion to do on the side 2569 02:11:22,300 --> 02:11:24,780 that you can do on your days off if you wanna have 2570 02:11:24,780 --> 02:11:26,460 that extra money, if you need a little extra 2571 02:11:26,460 --> 02:11:29,020 for your mortgage or your ski boat, whatever it is. 2572 02:11:29,020 --> 02:11:30,880 But the beautiful thing is you still go home 2573 02:11:30,880 --> 02:11:32,560 to your family and you sleep in your bed 2574 02:11:32,560 --> 02:11:34,660 every single night when you're off. 2575 02:11:34,660 --> 02:11:38,340 So this is what's crazy to me and we are our own worst enemy. 2576 02:11:38,340 --> 02:11:43,340 If your union isn't fighting for better working conditions, 2577 02:11:43,340 --> 02:11:45,260 and I would argue for a fitness standard too, 2578 02:11:45,260 --> 02:11:48,860 let's be honest, then they don't give a shit about you. 2579 02:11:48,860 --> 02:11:50,980 If your administration isn't, then they don't give 2580 02:11:50,980 --> 02:11:51,820 a shit about you. 2581 02:11:51,820 --> 02:11:53,580 If your city or county isn't, then they don't give 2582 02:11:53,580 --> 02:11:54,680 a shit about you. 2583 02:11:54,680 --> 02:11:57,500 So that means that you have to be your own advocate 2584 02:11:57,500 --> 02:12:00,440 and you have to get everyone else to understand 2585 02:12:00,440 --> 02:12:03,300 the ridiculousness of the firefighter work week, 2586 02:12:03,300 --> 02:12:05,700 the fact that all the mandatory over times 2587 02:12:05,700 --> 02:12:08,100 are just making things even worse and you're away 2588 02:12:08,100 --> 02:12:11,280 from your children and your husband or your wife even more. 2589 02:12:11,280 --> 02:12:13,020 And no one's thanking you. 2590 02:12:13,020 --> 02:12:16,060 No one's saying, I can't believe that you take another 2591 02:12:16,060 --> 02:12:20,020 24 hours of your life to cover while in this interim. 2592 02:12:20,020 --> 02:12:22,020 No, they're like, well, we're short-staffed. 2593 02:12:22,020 --> 02:12:23,460 It is what it is. 2594 02:12:23,460 --> 02:12:27,100 So either we get angry enough to actually finally advocate 2595 02:12:27,100 --> 02:12:30,520 for ourselves, start chasing some bullshit pay raise 2596 02:12:30,520 --> 02:12:33,060 and really fight the true currency, 2597 02:12:33,060 --> 02:12:38,060 which is time with our family, then the fault is on us. 2598 02:12:38,100 --> 02:12:42,580 But I think that, I get it, we're so tired and so bewildered, 2599 02:12:42,580 --> 02:12:45,340 but the answers are out there and I've got episodes 2600 02:12:45,340 --> 02:12:48,340 where departments big and small literally lay out 2601 02:12:48,340 --> 02:12:49,860 how they made it happen. 2602 02:12:49,860 --> 02:12:52,660 And it's always because they saved money for the city 2603 02:12:52,660 --> 02:12:55,980 or county is really what the ultimate thing was. 2604 02:12:55,980 --> 02:12:57,780 So all the answers are there. 2605 02:12:57,780 --> 02:12:59,820 It's just a case of people having the courage 2606 02:12:59,820 --> 02:13:01,220 to actually stand up. 2607 02:13:01,220 --> 02:13:03,620 The same way as they're courageous going in a house fire, 2608 02:13:03,620 --> 02:13:05,320 be courageous so that you can walk back 2609 02:13:05,320 --> 02:13:07,340 into your home more often. 2610 02:13:07,340 --> 02:13:09,180 I love that. 2611 02:13:09,180 --> 02:13:12,600 The timing of this is just impeccable. 2612 02:13:12,600 --> 02:13:16,460 One of our folks just announced their retirement 2613 02:13:16,460 --> 02:13:19,460 and I actually had just met with this individual 2614 02:13:19,460 --> 02:13:24,020 a few months ago and at that time they had said, 2615 02:13:24,020 --> 02:13:25,820 no, I'm not gonna retire. 2616 02:13:25,820 --> 02:13:26,800 So, okay. 2617 02:13:26,800 --> 02:13:28,860 And we tend to talk through about all the different stuff 2618 02:13:28,860 --> 02:13:31,820 and I think one of the big challenges too 2619 02:13:31,820 --> 02:13:34,860 is having purpose outside of the fire service. 2620 02:13:34,860 --> 02:13:38,580 It's really easy for us as people that wear the uniform 2621 02:13:38,580 --> 02:13:42,100 that that uniform becomes your identity 2622 02:13:42,100 --> 02:13:44,140 and when you take off that uniform, 2623 02:13:44,140 --> 02:13:46,420 it's almost like you've lost yourself 2624 02:13:47,740 --> 02:13:49,940 and I'll take a quick tangent. 2625 02:13:49,940 --> 02:13:54,660 But one of the things that going through that ordeal 2626 02:13:54,660 --> 02:13:59,660 that I went through back in 18 and into 19 was that was, 2627 02:14:00,180 --> 02:14:04,000 I think the universe telling me this isn't your identity 2628 02:14:04,000 --> 02:14:05,700 and you need to be ready for the day 2629 02:14:05,700 --> 02:14:08,020 that you no longer wear the uniform 2630 02:14:08,020 --> 02:14:09,940 or you no longer put your stuff on the rig 2631 02:14:09,940 --> 02:14:11,060 and go respond to call. 2632 02:14:11,060 --> 02:14:12,180 That's not who you are. 2633 02:14:12,180 --> 02:14:14,820 That's what you do but it's not who you are. 2634 02:14:14,820 --> 02:14:19,820 And so I think when you start looking at retirement 2635 02:14:20,220 --> 02:14:23,820 or on those hard stops, the injuries or things 2636 02:14:23,820 --> 02:14:27,080 and I've watched people, their career come to an end 2637 02:14:27,080 --> 02:14:29,980 out of choice or not choice and how tough that transition is 2638 02:14:29,980 --> 02:14:34,980 but anyway to circle back is 2639 02:14:35,540 --> 02:14:37,140 individual announced their retirement 2640 02:14:37,140 --> 02:14:39,860 and so I shot him a message like, hey, you're retiring? 2641 02:14:39,860 --> 02:14:43,900 And yup, and I said, well, what changed? 2642 02:14:43,900 --> 02:14:46,980 And speaks to exactly what you said James 2643 02:14:46,980 --> 02:14:51,980 is the response was money can't buy time brother. 2644 02:14:54,120 --> 02:14:56,980 And I'm like, yes. 2645 02:14:56,980 --> 02:15:01,980 And I ended up taking a day off this week 2646 02:15:02,900 --> 02:15:05,640 just so I could take my son Zach fishing, 2647 02:15:05,640 --> 02:15:07,340 even though we may or may not catch anything 2648 02:15:07,340 --> 02:15:08,420 just to spend time. 2649 02:15:08,420 --> 02:15:12,080 Cause what I'm like the reality for me, as I look at it, 2650 02:15:13,460 --> 02:15:18,460 my time with my kids in their influential part of life 2651 02:15:18,620 --> 02:15:21,380 is rapidly closing. 2652 02:15:21,380 --> 02:15:24,180 My daughter's entering high school next year, 2653 02:15:24,180 --> 02:15:27,260 hard to believe, my son's 14. 2654 02:15:28,260 --> 02:15:30,780 My son doesn't know what it was like 2655 02:15:30,780 --> 02:15:31,980 to ever have me on shift. 2656 02:15:31,980 --> 02:15:34,520 He's always had me home, except for times 2657 02:15:34,520 --> 02:15:36,620 where I have been mandatory or I have been gone. 2658 02:15:36,620 --> 02:15:39,180 We've, you know, when we have major incidents 2659 02:15:39,180 --> 02:15:43,100 and in the county, I end up being part of the 2660 02:15:44,020 --> 02:15:46,460 incident management team as a plan section guy. 2661 02:15:46,460 --> 02:15:50,220 So he knows what it's like when I'm gone for those things 2662 02:15:50,220 --> 02:15:53,600 but typically they get small doses of me every single day 2663 02:15:53,600 --> 02:15:56,580 versus being away for those long periods of time. 2664 02:15:56,580 --> 02:16:01,040 And so anyways, yeah, you just, 2665 02:16:01,040 --> 02:16:05,400 time is something you never ever get back. 2666 02:16:05,400 --> 02:16:08,520 And you know, I've watched how many people leave 2667 02:16:08,520 --> 02:16:11,120 the fire service and the next day they're, 2668 02:16:11,120 --> 02:16:12,360 we're just gonna fill you. 2669 02:16:13,560 --> 02:16:16,760 As much as we wanna become indispensable and all that, 2670 02:16:16,760 --> 02:16:18,780 we're just not, we're all replaceable, 2671 02:16:19,760 --> 02:16:21,800 but we're not replaceable at home, 2672 02:16:21,800 --> 02:16:23,320 nor do we, would we wanna be. 2673 02:16:23,320 --> 02:16:27,440 I mean, maybe get a fourth best version if I go or whatever, 2674 02:16:27,440 --> 02:16:30,480 but what, but yeah. 2675 02:16:30,480 --> 02:16:33,960 So that was, I think that just supports a lot of the stuff 2676 02:16:33,960 --> 02:16:37,620 that you've been pushing for so many years. 2677 02:16:39,120 --> 02:16:43,000 You know, firefighters that are permanently broken 2678 02:16:43,000 --> 02:16:46,320 or dead and gone, your purpose, 2679 02:16:46,320 --> 02:16:48,280 we can't help be on that. 2680 02:16:48,280 --> 02:16:53,280 And you know, if you really wanna stick it to the man, 2681 02:16:53,280 --> 02:16:55,440 I think Matt Wenning talked about it 2682 02:16:55,440 --> 02:16:58,040 maybe back in his episode or one of his episodes. 2683 02:16:58,040 --> 02:16:59,800 If you really wanna stick it to the man, 2684 02:16:59,800 --> 02:17:02,520 have a really long, healthy retirement. 2685 02:17:04,040 --> 02:17:06,800 And where you, you know, you kick it after three years 2686 02:17:06,800 --> 02:17:11,380 or whatever, but yeah. 2687 02:17:11,380 --> 02:17:12,460 My granddad did that. 2688 02:17:12,460 --> 02:17:14,340 He worked for insurance company in England. 2689 02:17:14,340 --> 02:17:17,360 And I remember the year when he'd actually been retired 2690 02:17:17,360 --> 02:17:18,480 longer than he'd worked. 2691 02:17:18,480 --> 02:17:19,320 Yes. 2692 02:17:19,320 --> 02:17:20,160 He lived to 99. 2693 02:17:20,160 --> 02:17:21,560 And actually it was cancer that got him. 2694 02:17:21,560 --> 02:17:23,120 Ironically, he was so bloody healthy. 2695 02:17:23,120 --> 02:17:23,960 Yeah. 2696 02:17:24,880 --> 02:17:25,720 Brilliant. 2697 02:17:25,720 --> 02:17:28,680 Well, mate, it's been such an incredible conversation 2698 02:17:28,680 --> 02:17:30,640 for people listening, we ended up kind of doing 2699 02:17:30,640 --> 02:17:32,080 a couple back to back of, you know, 2700 02:17:32,080 --> 02:17:33,840 like a few weeks apart. 2701 02:17:33,840 --> 02:17:36,600 So if you heard a microphone change, then that's why. 2702 02:17:36,600 --> 02:17:40,480 But it's, you know, been able to really pull some of the, 2703 02:17:40,480 --> 02:17:43,220 you know, the real lived experience leadership lessons 2704 02:17:43,220 --> 02:17:45,960 and some very valuable information. 2705 02:17:45,960 --> 02:17:48,160 So I wanna thank you so much for being so, 2706 02:17:48,160 --> 02:17:50,280 you're jam, oh fuck, you said it again. 2707 02:17:51,960 --> 02:17:54,060 I wanna thank you so much for being so generous 2708 02:17:54,060 --> 02:17:55,320 with your time and coming on 2709 02:17:55,320 --> 02:17:57,880 the Behind the Shield podcast today. 2710 02:17:57,880 --> 02:17:59,640 James, thank you so much. 2711 02:17:59,640 --> 02:18:01,520 I think I said it in the very beginning of the other one. 2712 02:18:01,520 --> 02:18:02,840 I just, I can't thank you enough. 2713 02:18:02,840 --> 02:18:06,840 It's super humbling to be here. 2714 02:18:06,840 --> 02:18:10,040 You know, I really wrestled with what the heck, 2715 02:18:10,040 --> 02:18:11,400 what am I gonna add to this? 2716 02:18:11,400 --> 02:18:14,160 I mean, look at your guest list for crying out loud. 2717 02:18:14,160 --> 02:18:17,840 And I've had the opportunity to meet so many of your guests, 2718 02:18:17,840 --> 02:18:19,200 which has been awesome. 2719 02:18:19,200 --> 02:18:22,240 But it says a lot about you and, you know, 2720 02:18:22,240 --> 02:18:24,040 what you've done, what, you know, 2721 02:18:24,040 --> 02:18:25,880 the sacrifice that you've made 2722 02:18:25,880 --> 02:18:28,200 so that we can try to help make the fire service 2723 02:18:28,200 --> 02:18:29,260 as a whole better. 2724 02:18:30,360 --> 02:18:32,600 So I'm really, you know, thank you, 2725 02:18:33,500 --> 02:18:34,920 but I'm also grateful for you. 2726 02:18:34,920 --> 02:18:37,680 And I just hope that we can all leave it 2727 02:18:37,680 --> 02:18:39,160 better than we found it. 2728 02:18:39,160 --> 02:18:41,160 So, I appreciate it. 2729 02:18:41,160 --> 02:18:56,160 Thank you.