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I'm extremely excited to announce a brand new sponsor for the Behind the Shield podcast

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that is Transcend.

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Now for many of you listening, you are probably working the same brutal shifts that I did

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for 14 years.

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Suffering from sleep deprivation, body composition challenges, mental health challenges, libido,

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hair loss, etc.

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Now when it comes to the world of hormone replacement and peptide therapy, what I have

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seen is a shift from doctors telling us that we were within normal limits, which was definitely

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incorrect all the way to the other way now where men's clinics are popping up left,

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right and center.

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So I myself wanted to find a reputable company that would do an analysis of my physiology

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and then offer supplementations without ramming, for example, hormone replacement therapy down

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my throat.

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Now I came across Transcend because they have an altruistic arm and they were a big reason

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why the 7X project I was a part of was able to proceed because of their generous donations.

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They also have the Transcend foundations where they are actually putting military and first

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responders through some of their therapies at no cost to the individual.

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So my own personal journey so far filled in the online form, went to Quest, got blood

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drawn and a few days later I'm talking to one of their wellness professionals as they

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guide me through my results and the supplementation that they suggest.

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In my case specifically, because I transitioned out the fire service five years ago and been

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very diligent with my health, my testosterone was actually in a good place.

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So I went down the peptide route and some other supplements to try and maximize my physiology

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knowing full well the damage that 14 years of shift work has done.

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Now I also want to underline because I think this is very important that each of the therapies

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they offer, they will talk about the pros and cons.

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So for example, a lot of first responders in shift work, our testosterone will be low,

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but sometimes nutrition, exercise and sleep can offset that on its own.

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So this company is not going to try and push you down a path, especially if it's one that

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you can't come back from.

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So whether it's libido, brain fog, inflammation, gut health, performance, sleep, this is definitely

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one of the most powerful tools in the toolbox.

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So to learn more, go to transcendcompany.com or listen to episode 808 of the Behind the

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Shield podcast with founder Ernie Colling.

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This episode is sponsored by a company I've used for well over a decade and that is 511.

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I wore their uniforms back in Anaheim, California and have used their products ever since.

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From their incredibly strong yet light footwear to their cut uniforms for both male and female

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responders, I found them hands down the best workwear in all the departments that I've

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worked for.

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Outside of the fire service, I use their luggage for everything and I travel a lot and they

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are also now sponsoring the 7X team as we embark around the world on the Human Performance

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project.

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We have Murph coming up in May and again I bought their plate carrier.

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I ended up buying real ballistic plates rather than the fake weight plates and that has been

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my ride or die through Murph the last few years as well.

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One area I want to talk about that I haven't in previous sponsorship spots is their brick

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and mortar element.

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They were predominantly an online company up till more recently but now they are approaching

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100 stores all over the US.

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My local store is here in Gainesville Florida and I've been multiple times and the discounts

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you see online are applied also in the stores.

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So as I mentioned 511 is offering you 15% off every purchase that you make but I do

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want to say more often than not they have an even deeper discount especially around

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holiday times.

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But if you use the code SHIELD15 you will get 15% off your order or in the stores every

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time you make a purchase.

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And if you want to hear more about 511, who they stand for and who works with them, listen

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to episode 580 of Behind the Shield podcast with 511 regional director Will Ayers.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

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the show, acupuncturist, chiropractor and the executive vice president of Regenexx,

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Mark Testa.

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Now in this conversation we discuss a host of topics.

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From his journey into chiropractic, how the holistic professions were accused of quackery,

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predatory practice in chiropractic, his journey into the world of stem cells, PRP, the healing

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power of bone marrow concentrate, the myths around stem cell therapy, treating the sporting

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and tactical athletes of the world and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredible conversation as I say every week, please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and

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leave a rating.

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Every single 5 star rating truly does elevate this podcast therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of over 900 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

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I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Mark Testa.

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Enjoy.

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Well Mark, I want to say welcome back to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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The first time you and I sat down we had some technical issues in the world of the internet

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but I want to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Thanks a lot James and I'm glad we could get that rescheduled because I was looking forward

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to talking to you.

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Absolutely.

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The internet and computers are an amazing thing unless they don't work and they suck

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away all that time that you saved.

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Yeah, for sure.

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And I want to say thank you to Doug Orchard, a mutual friend.

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He is the creator of arguably one of the most powerful documentaries when it comes to fitness

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and health in this country and the amazing PE program that some schools had in California

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in the 60s.

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So how did you and Doug meet and tell me about what you guys did together?

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Yeah, Doug and I met, I don't know, it's probably been eight years ago now and he came

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to shoot some video on me in my home when I was still practicing full time and that's

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how we met.

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And then I realized how talented he was and brought him into Regenexx because we were

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looking for video on what we do, how we do it.

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We had a lot of patients who wanted to share their story and Doug became our go to video

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guy and he just got it.

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He was so professional.

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He was able to tell a story and actually better than that, better than telling a story, he's

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great at asking questions and not the obvious ones and getting to a good story.

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So that's how we met and then we traveled around a lot.

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We became friends.

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He's a great conversationalist.

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We had a lot to talk about and I'll tell you, he turned you and me onto that video

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you mentioned.

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He also turned me onto fasting.

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He did a fasting documentary and I was like, how do I not know anything about this?

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How do I not know these people you're mentioning?

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And that sent me down a deep rabbit hole then into fasting and intermittent fasting and

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fasting mimicking diets.

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So Doug has contributed a lot to my personal life as well as our business.

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Brilliant.

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Yeah, his documentaries need to be seen.

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Funny, he did some on pandemics and masks and things like that a few years before 2020

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and those ones disappeared into the ether from the people that originally funded them.

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So that was interesting too because apparently they were phenomenal and they were talking

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about a lot of the things and not demonizing stuff, but just the vulnerability that we

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had when it came to the mask specifically, the very fitting N95 that was effective and

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the ineffective elements of a lot of the other masks.

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So really great information that would have been invaluable as we went into 2020, but

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I guess cancel culture one and sadly his documentaries disappeared.

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All right, well then where on planet earth are we finding you today?

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Today I'm in typically sunny Denver, Colorado.

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It was just outside with the dog.

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It's like 60 degrees, sunny, beautiful.

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So I'm not forgetting March is our snowiest month here, so I'm sure the other shoe is

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going to drop at some point.

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Last time I was there with my family skiing, I think it was about four years ago and you

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had your coldest winter you'd ever had.

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And we came over from Florida, rented a two-wheel drive car and I had the most terrifying two

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days of driving to the slopes and back I've ever had in my entire life.

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So I'll never forget Denver.

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Yeah, right.

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Once you start heading up that hill, if it's icy and cold and snowy, it's treacherous.

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Absolutely.

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All right, well, I'd love to start at the very beginning of your timeline then.

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So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what

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your parents did, how many siblings?

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Yeah, I was born in Ravenna, Ohio.

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It's Northeastern Ohio.

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I have a twin sister who's a year older than me, who used to really beat me up till about

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ninth grade and she's still quite competitive and athletic.

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And then we have two older siblings as well.

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So family of four, parents were both first generation born in America from Italian immigrants.

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So they spoke both languages, but unfortunately didn't teach us both languages because they

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wanted us to fit in because they didn't fit in, right?

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Only Italian and so I'm sure that language is lost now in our family.

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But we had great cousins and family really super close by.

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We had a really tight knit Italian family, celebrated everything together.

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I grew up really in my mom's kitchen learning how to cook Italian food and still love to

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cook food and have dinner parties for people and have people over.

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So it was fun.

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And I remember during the holidays, during Thanksgiving, she'd make turkey and all that.

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And then on the other side of the table was the whole Italian entrees.

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And I was like, I'm going for the Italian.

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I'm eating the lasagna and the meatballs.

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Still lean that way.

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What about their immigration story?

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I think sadly a lot of the rhetoric at the moment with the borders and that kind of thing.

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And obviously I'm an immigrant myself, is very kind of black and white, but this country

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was created through immigration, depending on how you look at it.

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Some forced, some willing.

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But I think there's so much depth and power to people's immigration stories.

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So what were the pros?

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What were some of the good things, the good stories they used to tell?

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And did they encounter any kind of prejudice or anything when they first came over here?

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I'll start with that last one first.

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Some of the stories, yeah, definitely a lot of some prejudice, right?

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I remember my uncle telling a story like he never seen a banana before and someone at

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school gave him a banana and he started eating it and didn't peel it, right?

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Just he didn't know.

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And there was a lot of that, you know, heckling and sort of thing.

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And because they didn't speak English, they had a difficult time, which led them to stay

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tightly knit, right?

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With Italians.

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In fact, when I went to school in first grade, I did not know there was another person on

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the planet named Mark because we were just around our cousins all the time.

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Anyway, on the good side of it, they were super hardworking.

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They were industrious.

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They came here to make a difference in their lives and in their heritage, in their, you

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know, in their lineage, right?

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They wanted to have opportunities and they came here and they were celery farmers.

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And that's what they did.

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They grew celery and they contributed a lot of that to public companies.

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I heard like Campbell's soups and, you know, gave them some of those vegetables to use

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in their soups.

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All four of the Testa brothers were in World War II and all at once at one point.

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So my dad was in Okinawa.

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My one uncle was in Hiroshima literally days after they dropped the atomic bomb there.

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Some of his pictures were just phenomenal of the and in a bad way of the devastation.

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Like everything was literally flat there.

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So they really were proud to be American and to help in every way they possibly could.

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So after that, they tried, you know, they tried everything.

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They were cotton farmers in Arizona.

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They raised chinchillas.

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They worked in machine shops.

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They did all kinds of things till they found their niche in general construction, excavation.

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They built roads and highways.

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They built universities and hospitals.

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They built housing developments.

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They ran eight miles of water and sewer in one of the poorest neighborhoods in Ohio,

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giving them running water for the first time.

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So they really made a significant impact and really tried to, you know, make not only their

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lives better, but contribute to, you know, their little ecosystem of Northeastern Ohio.

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They never went far from there, but they did make a big impact there.

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With your uncle being exposed to what we now understand would be an immense amount of radiation

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after Hiroshima, did he have any health issues as he progressed through adulthood?

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Interestingly, when he was over there in the Philippines before he went over to Hiroshima,

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he got malaria.

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But out of the four brothers and his sister, he lived to be 97.

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So no, he was fit.

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He was healthy.

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The last time I saw him at, well, I saw him at 97.

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And obviously, you know, that's frailty.

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But when he was 87, he was on no medications at all and was completely healthy.

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So somehow he dodged it.

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And I asked him about that.

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Why are you so healthy?

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And you know, he ate clean.

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He ate off the earth, right?

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He exercised.

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And his last thing was, I eat a quart of honey a month.

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I don't know.

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And that's really what he attributed a lot of it to, the honey.

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Going back to the COVID conversation, one of the most heartbreaking things that I talked

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about this a lot is, I mean, I stood in the middle the whole time.

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Of course, it was a real virus, you know, but the underlying medical issues that people

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had were a big determinant if someone succeeded and overcame that virus or they succumbed

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to it.

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And so we had a captive audience for two years to really educate the people of the importance

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of exercise, nutrition, sleep, time and daylight, community, all the pillars of health.

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And yet it was completely disregarded.

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And what a powerful kind of symbol of that, of your uncle thriving after being exposed

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in Hiroshima because of his underlying health.

236
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Yeah, I think that's so important.

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And I think we really missed an opportunity to talk about that.

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I mean, you don't need a double blind randomized controlled trial to know that exercise and

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moving and sleep is going to be better for you than not and, you know, trying to do healthy

240
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:36,640
things.

241
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:42,520
And I think we missed a real opportunity to have a very simple, basic message to people

242
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about that.

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And everyone was so afraid to say anything that they said nothing.

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And that was just as bad as saying the wrong things, in my opinion, because I mean, I think

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intuitively, everyone knows that and hardly anybody or nobody's going to disagree with

246
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like you should get good sleep and eat a good diet.

247
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Yeah, 100 percent.

248
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,560
And people were dragged one extreme or the other.

249
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And it was so sad because the middle ground was where really 80 percent were actually,

250
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,380
you know, that's where they would have been had they not been pulled and censored in a

251
00:17:14,380 --> 00:17:20,240
way and shamed because they dared to talk about a vaccine or a mask or Chinese conspiracy,

252
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,080
whatever their thing was, you know, and the middle ground was the truth.

253
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,360
Like there will be another virus.

254
00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:27,360
There will always be another virus.

255
00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:32,080
And even if there isn't, we're still losing people, you know, just millions when it comes

256
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,300
to obesity and diabetes and all these other things.

257
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So let's fix that.

258
00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:36,760
That is the truth.

259
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,320
Yeah, completely agree on that.

260
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,360
And there's simple ways to do it.

261
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:49,480
And it's it's it's it's within all of our grasp to be able to do all of that.

262
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:54,400
And if we all just shifted a little bit, you know, I had a mentor, a little plus often

263
00:17:54,400 --> 00:18:00,360
equals a lot, it would make a big impact on overall health of the individual and overall

264
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health of our society.

265
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:03,800
I really believe that.

266
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100 percent.

267
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,220
Well, just staying on the previous generation for one more observation, you have multiple

268
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relatives in World War Two.

269
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We are told that they were the greatest generation.

270
00:18:15,180 --> 00:18:20,480
And I've had a kind of awakening recently where I listened to so many stories of granddad

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and a lot of times he wasn't dealing well with what he had to do and what he saw when

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he came home.

273
00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:30,440
And we almost kind of projected that you're OK, you're the best generation on them and

274
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really kind of closed the door on them finally be able to open up about what they saw and

275
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:40,280
did with this kind of wiser lens that you have now from a mental health perspective.

276
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:45,280
Did you ever observe the impact of the war on any of your your family?

277
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,640
You know, it's a great question, because as my 97 year old uncle was the last one, his

278
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,080
sister is still alive.

279
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:52,320
She's like 93.

280
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,240
But as he was the last brother to come back and then die, we were going through a lot

281
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:57,240
of his stuff.

282
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:03,200
His sister was there and she's like, yeah, he had what they called them shell shock.

283
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,740
Now we would know it as PTSD, post traumatic stress injury.

284
00:19:07,740 --> 00:19:13,380
You know, his time in the Philippines before he was deployed to Hiroshima, he came back

285
00:19:13,380 --> 00:19:17,800
home and I didn't realize this and I didn't necessarily witness it because I wasn't born

286
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:24,040
yet, but he holed up in his bedroom for a long, long time and did not want to interact

287
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,640
and did not want to come out and did not want to participate.

288
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:28,760
And I'm sure that's right.

289
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:29,960
That was what was going on.

290
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:34,760
I mean, some of the images, the pictures he shared with us, literally where it's a human

291
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,820
body vaporized on the sidewalk, you can make that out.

292
00:19:38,820 --> 00:19:41,240
But he witnessed all that.

293
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:51,040
And I think, you know, all I can say is what I witnessed is they were all very short tempered,

294
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:52,040
right?

295
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,120
Kind of a classic thing with PTSI, short tempered.

296
00:19:56,120 --> 00:20:03,560
Now they were not smokers or alcohol abusers or things of that nature, you know, and I

297
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:09,720
think they just learned how to more of us in a stoic way, keep it in check.

298
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,880
But that is something I witnessed and that is something I heard my aunt say about my

299
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:19,880
uncle from Hiroshima when he came home is that he was just, you know, isolated, wanted to

300
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:20,880
isolate.

301
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:21,880
Yeah, it's interesting.

302
00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:26,000
I'm writing a book at the moment and the real kind of nucleus of it is multi-generational

303
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:32,000
trauma because I've got this unique perspective with almost 900 interviews now where, you

304
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,360
know, you just hear, and I love these kind of, you know, generational stories that these

305
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:40,080
guests have and you start to realize that, of course, war is going to have an impact

306
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,320
and we romanticize about some of these generations.

307
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,860
And some of them had the tools and they did deal well and they thrived for years and years

308
00:20:46,860 --> 00:20:49,160
and years, but it still took its toll.

309
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,360
It still had an impact, which then is passed to, you know, to son and grandson.

310
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:57,880
And, you know, now here we are in 2024 with a lot of the physical mental health issues

311
00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:59,360
that we see.

312
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:04,480
And if we're not talking about our ancestors, we're missing a part of the puzzle.

313
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,320
I agree and I think we are losing our ancestry heritage.

314
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:13,440
We don't, you know, our family, while we were super close growing up, is now dispersed everywhere

315
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:19,000
and we have one of the five siblings.

316
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,440
On both sides, they're all gone.

317
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:29,560
But on my dad's side, she's 92, 3, and I try to get as much out of her as possible, as

318
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,220
much as she can tell us.

319
00:21:31,220 --> 00:21:32,960
And we all are like glued to it.

320
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:38,960
But to your point about intergenerational, like, right, some of that short wicked anger

321
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:40,640
was probably pushed down on me.

322
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:41,880
And I'm aware of that.

323
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:46,960
And I'm trying to temper it and not pass it on to my daughter.

324
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:51,160
But you know, we learn this way.

325
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,280
And then we act this way.

326
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,600
And you know how kids are, they're not listening, they're watching, they're observing.

327
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:05,000
And I can tell my daughter, you know, do as I say, not as I do, doesn't work.

328
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,800
No, no, doesn't work if you're a parent or a politician.

329
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:09,800
All right.

330
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:10,800
Yeah.

331
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:11,800
All right.

332
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,500
Well, then go into your childhood now.

333
00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:17,960
What were you doing and playing as far as sports and exercise in the school age?

334
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,800
I started in second grade competing in track meets.

335
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,820
I grew up going to a Catholic school and again, small town.

336
00:22:25,820 --> 00:22:28,760
And so we were all very tight knit.

337
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,960
And I had a family that really took us under their belt.

338
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:33,960
They had older siblings.

339
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:39,440
And I say us, my twin sister, because she competed as well.

340
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,280
They took us under their belt and they would start taking us to local J.C. track meets.

341
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:45,280
Right.

342
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,840
And I was fast and I was good and I was winning.

343
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,680
I still have all those awards from second grade.

344
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:50,680
What is that?

345
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,840
Like seven years old.

346
00:22:52,840 --> 00:23:01,200
And I competed in track all the way through high school doing hurdles, doing quarter mile

347
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,360
sprints, you know, again, small school.

348
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:08,880
So I threw the shot put and was pretty good at it, even though, you know, it was one hundred

349
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:09,880
eighty five pounds.

350
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,680
I came in frequently second or third.

351
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:16,940
And one of our the funniest story, one of our techniques I think I came up with was

352
00:23:16,940 --> 00:23:23,400
as we let go, just to make the as much noise as possible.

353
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,320
And it was intimidating to a lot of people who should have beat us.

354
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:28,320
But we did that.

355
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:29,360
And it was a lot of fun.

356
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:34,920
And then in ninth grade, I started playing football, lettered for three years.

357
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:36,560
I was a kicker.

358
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,520
The only regret there is I wish I would have stuck with it because I probably could have

359
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,600
got a college scholarship because it's a lot easier than being a lineman, which I ended

360
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,220
up playing.

361
00:23:45,220 --> 00:23:47,560
But had a lot of had a lot of fun.

362
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:54,520
I love the camaraderie of team, you know, as in Doug's video, I think maybe the the

363
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,720
exercise video.

364
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:04,320
Some of the the doctors that were interviewed talked about how teams break the barrier of

365
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:05,560
color and race.

366
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:06,560
Right.

367
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:07,560
You're teammates.

368
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:15,200
And I had a lot of friends that I became and stayed friends with through all of that.

369
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,320
And color and race meant nothing to any of us.

370
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,000
We were buddies, we were teammates.

371
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:22,280
And I love that camaraderie.

372
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,280
Now, I'm still very active.

373
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:30,000
I don't participate on any teams, but I still work out, you know, five to seven times a

374
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,000
week.

375
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,880
And, you know, I know I don't golf, but I enjoy Frisbee golf when I can.

376
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,760
I definitely do a lot of hiking here in the Colorado mountains.

377
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:40,840
So I love to stay active.

378
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:47,240
I think, you know, that was just part of my DNA, and I'm grateful to have the the ability

379
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,520
in the body to still do it.

380
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,640
I don't take any of that for granted because I know people who can't.

381
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,920
And so I'm grateful to still be as active as I am.

382
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,960
I think that was a missing part when people see because a lot the video of last year or

383
00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:01,200
high school has gone around a lot.

384
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:06,160
I mean, there was a JFK initiative and a lot of these are actually out clips that Doug

385
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,960
uses in the video.

386
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:13,840
You see these very muscular fit, you know, I'm assuming juniors, seniors by that point,

387
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,640
navigating all these different courses.

388
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,760
And every one of them could be on the front cover of Muscle Fitness is crazy.

389
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,560
But when you hear that they're put into groups and so the whole group has to rise up and

390
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:30,360
get to the next color shorts in the next level, you're working together.

391
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:34,600
And when you listen to them talking, their academic grades went up and the bullying went

392
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:35,840
down.

393
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,360
So now we've removed basically any sort of physical exercise.

394
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:40,360
And what are we seeing?

395
00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:45,840
All these videos of horrific bullying doesn't mean it happens all the time, but it happens.

396
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:52,680
And whether it's wrestling on jujitsu or a PE program, when you get kids to have shared

397
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:58,020
suffering, when you have to come together and work together and as you said, you see

398
00:25:58,020 --> 00:26:05,760
each other now as team A instead of, you know, an Asian, a Hispanic and a black guy, you

399
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:11,160
basically debunk the ridiculous myth that is, you know, racism and prejudice.

400
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,800
And you see each other as human beings.

401
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,680
So this is another element that I'd love to see that program put in because it's not just

402
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:17,680
about fitness.

403
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,800
It's about so much more.

404
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:20,800
So much more, right?

405
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,920
You said it brain health, help that develops.

406
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:31,320
And you know, my daughter goes to an all girls school here and they are, it's called GALS,

407
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,000
Girls Athletic Leadership School.

408
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,560
Now she's not an athlete.

409
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:41,000
She is now, but their first period is movement every single day.

410
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:47,440
And the first six weeks, they did the one mile run, all of them.

411
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:52,480
And they want to teach girls, they can do hard things.

412
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:58,220
And so she went from, you know, learning that to now she's on the lacrosse team.

413
00:26:58,220 --> 00:27:01,680
You know, we just bought a football, you know, she wants to play football.

414
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:02,680
I'm all for it.

415
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,760
Whatever she wants to do.

416
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,520
And I love it that movement is their first period because to your point, it makes everything

417
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:11,520
better, right?

418
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,680
And then when you see in your camaraderie with your colleagues, race, color, everything

419
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:17,680
goes out the window.

420
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:18,680
You're just a team now.

421
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,080
You're just, you're working towards the same goals.

422
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:22,080
Absolutely.

423
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,680
Well, I know you got into the health profession.

424
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,280
When you were in school, were you dreaming of holistic health or was there something

425
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,000
else in mind?

426
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,320
I was sort of brought up with it, truthfully.

427
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,640
My parents, again, they were, they took care of themselves.

428
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,240
We did have a great holistic primary care doctor.

429
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:40,880
He was an osteopath.

430
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,320
He took care of three generations of us, of the testes.

431
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:50,320
He was part of our family, really anytime, our Christmas Eve parties.

432
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:51,480
He was always there.

433
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:52,480
He was always invited.

434
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,520
He took care of us from all of us.

435
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,480
But I grew up with a big garden.

436
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,740
We were eating and cooking food.

437
00:27:59,740 --> 00:28:05,880
My parents in the seventies were early adopters of vitamins, particularly vitamin C at nothing,

438
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:06,880
at a minimum.

439
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,240
Linus Pauling was really pushing that and they were into it.

440
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:16,600
I think when I started cooking with my mom, I realized, oh man, look, I can make healthier

441
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:17,600
meals.

442
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:18,600
I can make higher protein meals.

443
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:25,280
I can make food the way I want to eat it because I started lifting weights in ninth grade

444
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,640
after buying my first Charles Atlas workout.

445
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,360
Do you even know who Charles Atlas is?

446
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:31,360
Oh, I do.

447
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:32,360
Yeah, yeah.

448
00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:36,240
The father of modern bodybuilding, but I mean, he was a strong man as opposed to a bodybuilder,

449
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:37,240
wasn't he?

450
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:38,240
Yeah, yeah.

451
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:43,560
And I got his little free thing out of the back of a magazine when things used to take

452
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,120
six to eight weeks to be delivered and I got it.

453
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:48,840
And I was like, pushups.

454
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,480
It was all kinds of different pushups, inclines, declines between chairs, and I couldn't do

455
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,480
them.

456
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,200
So that was my early foray.

457
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:04,260
So between the cooking, the garden, the vitamins, the working out, the how do I get more out

458
00:29:04,260 --> 00:29:05,880
of this?

459
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,140
When I went to chiropractic school and I intentionally went there because I was like, I don't want

460
00:29:10,140 --> 00:29:12,320
to deal with disease and dying and sick people.

461
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,600
I want to do health related stuff.

462
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:23,880
That just fueled the intention to get into holistic health care and learn as much and

463
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,160
more about it as I possibly could ingest.

464
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,600
And so I've been down that rabbit hole.

465
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:30,600
It's my ethos.

466
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,180
It's again, like exercise is just part of who I am.

467
00:29:35,180 --> 00:29:37,440
So is this.

468
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:45,160
And I have a hard time not giving advice unsolicited to people when they tell me about an ailment.

469
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,200
You're going to get some advice from me.

470
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,040
You don't have to follow it, but I can't help myself.

471
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,280
I can relate to that number of times I had people in the back of the ambulance.

472
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,280
And of course, we're dealing with their acute emergency.

473
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,640
But in the conversation that many a time to talk about, you know, plant based diets or

474
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,840
foundation training or all these things so that hopefully they'll go away and like, all

475
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,320
right, I'm not in an emergency condition anymore.

476
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,400
How can I start reversing the disease that's causing this in the first place?

477
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,760
So I don't know how many of them landed, but you know, all you can do is try.

478
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,120
Yeah, right.

479
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:22,400
So as you entered the chiropractic world, I heard you kind of discussing this on another

480
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:23,400
podcast.

481
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,080
Usually I write down who it was and I honestly I can't remember who you were on with.

482
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,640
But quackery.

483
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,880
I was kind of interested that actually was a real term.

484
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:38,320
I thought it was just kind of a, you know, a snide remark that a lot of people regarded

485
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:39,580
certain areas.

486
00:30:39,580 --> 00:30:46,360
But walk me through the challenges that chiropractic, I mean, osteopathy, for example, I had a great

487
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,240
osteopath in California that after getting the shit kicked out of me, he'd reset my

488
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,580
jaw, my nose and my knuckles after training.

489
00:30:54,580 --> 00:30:57,760
But I feel like we're at the beginning of a renaissance again.

490
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:03,280
And we've gone full circle from the generation I grew up in, which was poo pooing anything

491
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:08,240
healthy, you know, organic food is for hippies and, you know, chiropractic is witchcraft

492
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,400
and all this stuff.

493
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,480
And now we're finally realizing that there's a reason why it's called ancient wisdom, because

494
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,160
it works.

495
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,080
It's lasted a long time.

496
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:23,160
So as you enter the holistic space, what was the history of this term quackery?

497
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,440
Because I think it's important for people to understand how quote unquote modern medicine

498
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:32,620
demonize a lot of the things that we now understand are extremely effective.

499
00:31:32,620 --> 00:31:33,620
That's right.

500
00:31:33,620 --> 00:31:34,620
They did.

501
00:31:34,620 --> 00:31:37,700
And I don't mean to throw the medical profession under the bus, but they deserve what I'm going

502
00:31:37,700 --> 00:31:40,800
to say and it started in the AMA.

503
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,960
And let me start where this I just really learned this right chiropractors have always

504
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,660
been called quacks.

505
00:31:46,660 --> 00:31:48,740
And it started in the 50s or 60s.

506
00:31:48,740 --> 00:31:50,720
And let me tell you this crazy story.

507
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:56,240
L. Ron Hubbard, right, the father of Scientology wrote Dianetics.

508
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,960
And he must have been also a little paranoid because part of his deal was we're going to

509
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:02,880
get rid of the need for psychiatry.

510
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,960
And I think in his paranoia, he thought the AMA was after him.

511
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:09,880
This is all back.

512
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:17,480
And so he put Scientology operatives in the Chicago AMA office and they started looking

513
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,880
through filing cabinets and things like this.

514
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,320
And the AMA and I don't remember the exact year, if it was the 50s, I want to say it

515
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:31,640
was the early 60s, started a committee on quackery and they weren't after L. Ron Hubbard

516
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,260
and Scientology.

517
00:32:33,260 --> 00:32:40,440
They found out that the AMA was after chiropractors and they were after us because they were worried

518
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:41,920
about their turf.

519
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:47,920
Apparently during that, at that time, there was only 25 or 30,000 chiropractors or I mean,

520
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:48,920
MDs.

521
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:54,400
And so chiropractic was helping people with obviously musculoskeletal pain.

522
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,640
But I've seen it in my whole career.

523
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,020
Sometimes asthma gets better.

524
00:32:58,020 --> 00:32:59,720
Sometimes irritable bowel gets better.

525
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,680
You know, I'm not saying we cure those things.

526
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,960
We allow the body to find homeostasis and the body does its healing.

527
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,120
And so they were concerned they were going to lose ground.

528
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:23,860
And so they had an all out assault from the 60s until 1987 where they literally did everything.

529
00:33:23,860 --> 00:33:27,560
They told their members, you cannot associate with chiropractors.

530
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,880
They told their members, you cannot take x-rays for chiropractors.

531
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,160
They told the radiologists, you cannot read x-rays for chiropractors.

532
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:37,880
We cannot do lab work.

533
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,720
You cannot refer to them.

534
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:47,080
They brought social media at the time, influencers like Ann Landers and I can't even remember

535
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,960
some of those names to talk crap about chiropractic.

536
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,000
They literally tried to crush the whole profession.

537
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,640
And that got disseminated into society.

538
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,800
And people started to believe it.

539
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:03,120
We didn't have an education.

540
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,400
We were going to kill people.

541
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:05,680
We were bad doctors.

542
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,320
We were, you know, we weren't real doctors.

543
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:09,600
And that got out there.

544
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,620
And like I grew up going to chiropractors and osteopaths.

545
00:34:12,620 --> 00:34:15,240
And so I've been getting manipulation since I was little.

546
00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:17,360
I thought everybody did, frankly.

547
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,400
And when I got out of school in 1990, well, let me back up.

548
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:27,600
So 1987 and in the early 80s, the chiropractic profession sued the AMA, American College

549
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,360
of Hospitals, American College of Radiology, et cetera.

550
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:38,360
And we won this lawsuit that said, you guys got to stop this discriminating lying about

551
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,360
this profession and find ways to collaborate.

552
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:43,960
AMA appealed that.

553
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,840
They lost that in appeal.

554
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,560
But still, the damage had been done.

555
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,320
Physicians had believed it.

556
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:52,600
Everybody had believed it.

557
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,360
And when I got out of school, I didn't know.

558
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,600
I thought everybody got adjusted, right?

559
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,240
I thought we were a noble profession.

560
00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:02,240
I know my education was not easy.

561
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:05,680
I know we learned a lot of the same basic sciences as everybody else.

562
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:10,140
I dissected a human body for a year.

563
00:35:10,140 --> 00:35:13,480
And so when I first got called a quack, I was like, what?

564
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:14,480
We're quacks?

565
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,400
I did not even know that.

566
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,160
And so it is getting better now.

567
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:27,100
So I say that in that in the 30 years or so I've been out of school, I have broken down

568
00:35:27,100 --> 00:35:28,880
a lot of barriers.

569
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:35,640
I've worked in the largest primary care group in Colorado here, in-house.

570
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,240
I worked with the largest occupational medicine provider in the country.

571
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:43,760
I worked in one of the largest pain centers here in Colorado.

572
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:50,200
I helped develop hospital staff privileges for chiropractors and acupuncturists and then

573
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,160
became the first chiropractor on the medical staff here at Denver Health.

574
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,520
And so and I work with MDs, right?

575
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,080
They know we all know the value we provide each other.

576
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:07,000
And I haven't been called a quack in a long time, but it started out of, you know, the

577
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:15,400
medical profession trying to control patient flow and revenue and and their seat at the

578
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:22,400
table as the big dog, when in fact, it really did a lot of damage not only to our profession,

579
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:28,360
but it probably does a lot of damage to other things out there as well.

580
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:36,400
And so, you know, that that's sort of the story on quackery and the misinformation really

581
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:42,320
that started back in the 60s and got pummelgated into today.

582
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:47,280
I'm a walking example of chiropractic and another thing called foundation training that

583
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,400
was created by a chiropractor, Dr. Eric Goodman.

584
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:55,680
I hurt my back pretty severe near career ending injury about 10 years ago now in the fire

585
00:36:55,680 --> 00:37:01,240
service and the workman's comp route was, you know, anti-inflammatories and painkillers

586
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:02,600
and then it would have been surgery.

587
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:07,520
And I've got friends that went down that route that temporarily had relief and then now they're

588
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,520
you know, they're living with fusions and all kinds of horrific things.

589
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:16,560
Conversely, by going through this route, you know, I did PT, I did chiropractic out of

590
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,040
my own pocket because it wasn't covered.

591
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,120
I worked with a PVC pipe and then started loading, you know, in the gym.

592
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,400
But then foundation training was a real game changer.

593
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,640
And it was so effective in the end that I wasn't just better.

594
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,520
I was actually stronger than I was before because I'd fix the underlying issues that

595
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,640
got me hurt in the first place, which is a big part of the surgery conversation.

596
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,840
You haven't addressed what got you hurt.

597
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,560
Then I ended up getting certified in foundation training and taking it back to my fire department.

598
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,160
I was so impressed.

599
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:51,620
And in the SIRT, there were all these people with, you know, severe back injury stories.

600
00:37:51,620 --> 00:37:56,000
Some had surgery, some, you know, had overcome opioid addiction through the painkillers that

601
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,680
they got hooked on.

602
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,520
And so this is the big conversation is it works.

603
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,400
Again, nothing works for everyone.

604
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:04,560
And that's the problem people get.

605
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,840
You know, they always point, well, it didn't work for Steve.

606
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:07,840
So I'm not doing it.

607
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,160
Well, yeah, but what about all the other people?

608
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:15,640
But you know, you parallel that with the Oxycontin issue.

609
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:19,560
You know, if painkillers and surgery with the B.O.L. end all, then that's everyone would

610
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:20,560
know that it worked.

611
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,520
But how many horror stories have we heard there?

612
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:29,560
So sometimes, yes, you know, micro disectomy might be, you know, an effective solution.

613
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,080
I had a chiropractor from Australia on recently who did all the right things.

614
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,400
And then that was one little tool he put in and it worked for him.

615
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,280
So that was in addition to all the other stuff.

616
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:44,640
But when we look back now and realize how many holistic options were demonized and how

617
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:51,400
many of our 70% population that's obese or overweight have been prescribed blood thinners

618
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:57,760
and blood pressure medication and statins and diabetes meds rather than exercise and

619
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,920
nutrition and the things that they should be being given to.

620
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,360
It really underlines that whole, you know, first do no harm.

621
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,160
We couldn't be further from that.

622
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,360
We do nothing but harm to so many people.

623
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,760
And it's not malicious most of the time, unless you're talking about Purdue Pharma.

624
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:20,800
But this lack of education on underlying health that most of our physicians have, you know,

625
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,400
we need this paradigm shift now.

626
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:28,720
We need to go back to, as you said, giving the body the tools it needs for it to heal

627
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:33,200
itself because we're so fucking arrogant that we acted like the body doesn't know what it's

628
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:34,200
doing.

629
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:35,960
So let me give it pills or cut it open.

630
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:41,320
So I'm excited to think to see that we're at the beginning of a shift yet again.

631
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,020
And part of that, again, I'm going back to the AMA, you know, I've studied this stuff

632
00:39:45,020 --> 00:39:49,640
and I've been subject to the harassment.

633
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:59,200
They wanted to elevate the status of physicians by making the people they took care of needy

634
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:00,720
of them.

635
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:09,240
And so they did that by talking in Latin terms, using Greek terms, using big jargon that separated

636
00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:14,320
the patient, the person from medicine, from health really is what happened.

637
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:20,480
And we all became reliant on going to a physician to learn about ourselves.

638
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:21,480
Right.

639
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,420
I, you know, most people have no idea where their liver is.

640
00:40:24,420 --> 00:40:25,420
You know, you got heartburn.

641
00:40:25,420 --> 00:40:26,980
Oh, we got a pill for that.

642
00:40:26,980 --> 00:40:30,120
Don't think twice about not eating that thing again.

643
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:31,700
Like that's not even part.

644
00:40:31,700 --> 00:40:38,720
And so that is spread so far in our society that people don't think their body has any

645
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:44,160
wisdom, like you said, or can heal itself or that nature can do it.

646
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,080
And they think the only way that they're going to get health is to go to the system.

647
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:53,600
And to your point, the system, it's not malicious.

648
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:58,120
It's just like this wide of what's available.

649
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,820
And because we're dealing with chemicals and surgery, of course, there's going to be adverse

650
00:41:02,820 --> 00:41:04,400
side effects.

651
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,600
And I'm going to jump on the Purdue Pharma thing real quick because I was practicing

652
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,440
full time in the pain clinic during that heyday.

653
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:17,600
And that rep lovely woman nurse was in our office, not for me, but for the pain docs

654
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:24,120
that were there, where it was 10 of them pushing, pushing Oxycontin like it was candy.

655
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,480
And this the fifth vital sign, I was like, what, when did this come out?

656
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:29,480
Right.

657
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:34,320
Remember that the pain and we started asking everybody about it till they became trained

658
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,320
to tell we say, I'm a seven, I'm a seven.

659
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:44,600
And I mean, we had four deaths in one quarter in that practice from Oxycontin.

660
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:53,480
And we now know the way that that whole thing was cooked up to think doctors had a solution

661
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,640
that was non addictive and that patients were going to do well with it.

662
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,780
And even before I knew what was going on, I had patients saying, oh, yeah, I crush it

663
00:42:00,780 --> 00:42:01,780
up and snort it.

664
00:42:01,780 --> 00:42:02,780
I'm like, what?

665
00:42:02,780 --> 00:42:03,780
Why?

666
00:42:03,780 --> 00:42:04,780
Right.

667
00:42:04,780 --> 00:42:09,080
Like, I didn't know what the whole what they were doing with it then.

668
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:14,120
But yeah, that was just another crazy fiasco.

669
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,440
And you know, money drives a lot of it.

670
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:20,960
They paid the AMA to teach physicians about the fifth vital sign.

671
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:21,960
Did they know?

672
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:22,960
I don't know.

673
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:23,960
Did the AMA know?

674
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:24,960
I don't know.

675
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,880
They were probably buying it just like Purdue Pharma was selling it.

676
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:33,160
And as we know from that story, the guy who was working at the FDA rubber stamping all

677
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:37,240
that stuff when he left, went to work for Purdue.

678
00:42:37,240 --> 00:42:42,360
So I'm a little bit jaded and skeptical about FDA as well.

679
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,880
And I think chiropractors are just brought up to be looking over our shoulder all the

680
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:47,880
time.

681
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:48,880
Like, is that true?

682
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:49,880
Is that really true?

683
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:50,880
Is that are they?

684
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:51,880
Are they back on this?

685
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:53,360
I don't think they do.

686
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:54,360
So anyway.

687
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,120
Yeah, no, it's an important perspective.

688
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,440
I was actually in that myself.

689
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,080
Totally oblivious because I was a patient.

690
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:05,400
I remember I hardly ever go to see a doctor, but I was working for Hialeah Fire and had

691
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:06,600
some that there.

692
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,400
I'm sure that a lot of the stations back then were full of black mold.

693
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:10,400
They had to have been.

694
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,400
So I had some really nasty infection and just wouldn't go away.

695
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:17,760
So I was there feeling like crap and waiting for just to see a physician just to get a

696
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,680
simple antibiotic so I could hopefully kick it and move on.

697
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:27,120
And my wife at the time, my ex, she was working for a doctor's office.

698
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,280
And I remember her telling me, she's like, it's so weird that these people come from

699
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:31,940
New York and New Jersey.

700
00:43:31,940 --> 00:43:35,400
They fly down, they get a prescription and then they fly back again.

701
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,320
Well, we were in Broward County, Florida.

702
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:39,860
This is where all the pill mills were.

703
00:43:39,860 --> 00:43:42,220
So now, you know, obviously we know exactly what was going on.

704
00:43:42,220 --> 00:43:46,900
But I remember waiting at doctor's office while dolled up, you know, model after dolled

705
00:43:46,900 --> 00:43:51,680
up model went in peddling their wares and the patients are waiting for hours while these

706
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,240
reps were being prioritized.

707
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:58,200
So I mean, it was just so unethical and so disgusting.

708
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:03,440
And if anyone's ever seen Dope Sick, the show on Hulu, there was one called Painkiller that

709
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:04,880
I didn't think was that good.

710
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,920
Dope Sick to me tells the real story so, so well.

711
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:10,480
And it was a predatory practice.

712
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,080
They knew exactly what they were doing.

713
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,320
They knew that people were dying in droves.

714
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:20,360
They are the still the origin story of the opioid crisis that we're dealing with today.

715
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:25,620
And Sackler, the main one, I forget his first name now, is still living in a mansion in

716
00:44:25,620 --> 00:44:27,760
Boca Raton, Florida.

717
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,720
So you know, I mean, it's absolutely disgusting.

718
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:31,720
Absolutely fucking disgusting.

719
00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:35,440
Yeah, I can't agree with you more on that.

720
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,160
And then to try to take care of these people.

721
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:43,040
And I remember, like, you know, ask them, you know, what's your pain level seven?

722
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:44,040
What are you taking?

723
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:45,040
I'm taking Oxy-Toc-Contin.

724
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,800
I'm taking a breakthrough med.

725
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,560
I'm on a long acting morphine.

726
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,320
I'm on a muscle relaxer.

727
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,320
And I'm like, and you drove here?

728
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,520
Like how in the hell are you operating like this?

729
00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:03,920
And then, you know, again, part of the leak into society is somebody else is going to

730
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:05,520
fix my problem.

731
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,880
There's a pill for that out there.

732
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,680
And that's just it's a slippery slope.

733
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:11,960
It's not how it works.

734
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:12,960
Yeah.

735
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,280
Well, I think the other side of that whole problem is the fact that the thing is just

736
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:20,760
us in New Zealand are the only countries in the world where you can advertise pharmaceuticals.

737
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,160
And the number of times doesn't matter if it's a yeast infection medication.

738
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:29,200
They've got a bunch of models dancing around, you know, and then what, like a two minute

739
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:32,680
warning thing at the end of all the things, you know, the antidepressant that will cause

740
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,000
suicide ideation.

741
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,680
And I really and this is this is approved.

742
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:41,600
So this is the issue is the environment we've created again is not about the body's ability

743
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,720
to deal with with its own mental and physical trauma.

744
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:48,000
When given the tools, it's just just relax.

745
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,000
We got it.

746
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,000
We got a pill.

747
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:51,000
You don't have to do anything.

748
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:52,000
You know, just go see a doctor.

749
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,680
Ask your doctor for insert drug name.

750
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:55,680
Right.

751
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:56,680
Yeah.

752
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:57,680
Yeah.

753
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,640
And I worked with a lot of those docs who are like, you know, fee for service is how

754
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,360
you make your living in America as a clinician.

755
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,080
And so he's like, I remember them.

756
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,360
If I if I don't give them to them, they're going to go somewhere else and I'm losing

757
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,040
business.

758
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:15,120
So they were kind of put between a rock and a hard place, too, because it's how they make

759
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:16,120
their living.

760
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:17,120
There was more.

761
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:18,720
There was a ton of moral injury there.

762
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:19,720
They don't want to do that.

763
00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:20,880
They knew better.

764
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:27,160
But at the same time, you know, especially if they work for a large hospital system or

765
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:31,120
now a large insurer.

766
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:32,720
Big Brother's looking down on them.

767
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:39,640
You got certain RVUs, relative value units, the scorecard for how much revenue you're

768
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:41,400
developing driving.

769
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:47,720
And if they don't hit certain metrics, they're giving back some of their revenue, their income.

770
00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:52,600
So tons of moral injury everywhere around that system.

771
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:54,200
Absolutely.

772
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,760
One more area while we're in the world of chiropractic, to be fair and pull the kind

773
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:03,440
of other side of it that I've witnessed out into the light a little bit.

774
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:09,400
I am such a firm believer in the medicine that is chiropractic.

775
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:15,440
But you in America see some clinics opening up and it's a chiropractor and a lawyer in

776
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:21,280
the same office and they're targeting all these traffic accident lawsuit cases.

777
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,560
Talk to me about that side of your profession.

778
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,640
Yeah, especially you see that in Florida, right?

779
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:28,800
I'm sure you do.

780
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:29,800
Yes.

781
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,220
It's, you know, people do get injured in car crashes, right?

782
00:47:33,220 --> 00:47:34,840
There's no doubt about that.

783
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:40,040
And they don't even need to be high volume or high velocity crashes.

784
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,320
Low velocity crashes can hurt people.

785
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:48,920
And again, these are how attorneys make their living is fighting the insurance company for

786
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:49,920
payment.

787
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:55,720
They need a chiropractor to treat those people.

788
00:47:55,720 --> 00:47:57,200
To me, it's a little slippery.

789
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:01,480
It's a little conflict of interest working that closely together.

790
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:06,080
Sometimes, you know, I would refer a patient to an attorney because they were in a quagmire

791
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:07,080
that I don't know.

792
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:08,080
I'm not a lawyer.

793
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,520
I don't know the legal, but you need some help with this.

794
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:13,720
You're getting the run around by the insurance company.

795
00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:15,520
And it's just a very adversarial thing.

796
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,160
The insurance companies don't want to admit anything.

797
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:19,360
So you got to get a lawyer.

798
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,840
The lawyer needs documentation on injury.

799
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:29,640
So chiropractors are a little easy to not all.

800
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:35,180
Some are easy to just say, yeah, I'll go ahead and treat that person and do the documentation

801
00:48:35,180 --> 00:48:36,180
for you.

802
00:48:36,180 --> 00:48:38,800
And let's also be honest here, too.

803
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,960
Right. Medicare pays a chiropractor twenty six dollars a visit.

804
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:47,720
If I'm doing an auto injury, I could get one hundred and fifty dollars a visit.

805
00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:52,280
Now, when you're doing time for money, you have to make a decision where you're going

806
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,180
to spend your time.

807
00:48:54,180 --> 00:48:57,680
And so I see I see both sides of that.

808
00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:58,680
Right.

809
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,920
Like I did do a lot of auto injury work and I did a lot of work comp.

810
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:08,680
And again, my my decisions were there because people needed the care.

811
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:15,280
I felt super ethical about the care I gave, but not everybody's that ethical.

812
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,520
And when you're that close together, there are.

813
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:23,760
Hate to say it, backdoor shenanigans that might be going on.

814
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:29,560
Yeah, I think I mean, we all knew the lawyers who were that lawyer.

815
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:34,940
And I had one lawyer I had lunch with who asked me, you know, do you know anyone that

816
00:49:34,940 --> 00:49:39,000
works at X, Y, Z Hospital in the admission department?

817
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,460
I was like, no, how would why would I know that?

818
00:49:42,460 --> 00:49:46,840
And then lo and behold, a few months later, I'm treating a patient who was in a car crash.

819
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,960
She's like, I can't believe it.

820
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,500
The lawyer called me while I was still in the hospital.

821
00:49:52,500 --> 00:49:57,920
That's because he had somebody in there working for him, giving him names.

822
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,520
And you know, that's the classic ambulance chaser.

823
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:06,600
So if the shoe fits. Yeah, I think this is an important part of

824
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:10,160
the conversation, too, because I know people that have said, oh, I tried chiropractic.

825
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:11,160
It didn't work.

826
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:12,640
And I said, well, what did they do?

827
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,320
Oh, you know, they put me on a table and they and they pushed down.

828
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:16,840
And that was it again.

829
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:22,360
So no traction, no x-rays, you know, no no ways of figuring out what the imbalances are,

830
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,320
where the subluxations are, you know, what the treatment plan is.

831
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:29,040
Because obviously, the other side is that, OK, you need to come in 10 times a week for

832
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:30,560
the next two years.

833
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:32,360
There's those people, too.

834
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:36,440
But you know, if they're just coming in for an adjustment without any kind of backstory,

835
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,960
well again, that's not the right chiropractor either.

836
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:43,120
So I think, you know, whether it's jujitsu or whatever, a restaurant, you know, you've

837
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:47,120
got to you've got to go to the right ones that are right fit for you.

838
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:48,120
That's right.

839
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,120
And you know, you don't go you don't stop eating at restaurants just because you got

840
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:52,180
a bad meal at one.

841
00:50:52,180 --> 00:50:53,180
You try another one.

842
00:50:53,180 --> 00:50:57,720
And that's what I encourage people to do with chiropractic, because there are great chiropractors

843
00:50:57,720 --> 00:51:03,160
out there and, you know, I would not have made my way into medicine if I was full of

844
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:08,880
shit because they have they don't they don't buy anecdotes.

845
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,120
They don't they want you know, they want results.

846
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:12,120
They want evidence.

847
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:16,520
They want, you know, they want to know who they're referring to as reputable and not

848
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,000
going to give them a bad reputation.

849
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:24,040
And I think there's a lot of great chiropractors out there that are doing good research, good

850
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:29,520
research, developing techniques, and just like every profession, you know, there's the

851
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,200
other side of that coin.

852
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:32,200
Absolutely.

853
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,720
Well, staying on the holistic side just for one more moment, then we'll go into regenics

854
00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:36,720
and what you're doing now.

855
00:51:36,720 --> 00:51:37,720
Yeah.

856
00:51:37,720 --> 00:51:38,840
Talk to me about acupuncture.

857
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:39,840
I have an amazing guy.

858
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,560
I haven't seen him in years, actually, but Dr. Wong.

859
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:48,680
And when I was still in the fire service, I used to get brutal, brutal migraines.

860
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:52,640
And I would go there and they'd put pins in my head and I'd basically take a nap for

861
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:57,440
an hour and it was amazing with all the candles and soft Asian music in the background.

862
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:01,440
But you know, again, this is another therapy that people seem to have a lot of success

863
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,520
with when it comes to pain, but also on the mental health side as well.

864
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:09,960
So what took you into the world of acupuncture and what are your observations of that art

865
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:10,960
too?

866
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:16,720
Yeah, I got sucked into that while I was in chiropractic school.

867
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:21,000
I don't say that negatively sucked into it, but it was like this force pulled me into

868
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:22,000
it.

869
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:26,080
So I was in my first or second year, first year of chiropractic school.

870
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:30,960
Me and my buddy were going to weekend acupuncture conferences, courses.

871
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:35,160
We were in a course and these physicians, these doctors were like, the hell are you

872
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:36,160
guys doing here?

873
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,120
You're still students.

874
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,360
And I was like, I am drawn to this so much.

875
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:48,720
And you know, in the seventies, Nixon went to China and his press secretary had an appendicitis

876
00:52:48,720 --> 00:52:53,560
and got treated without surgery with acupuncture.

877
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:56,400
And I remember that being on the news.

878
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,720
That's my earliest recollection of acupuncture.

879
00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:04,240
So I got trained in traditional acupuncture.

880
00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:08,120
I did it.

881
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,280
I didn't stay in traditional acupuncture.

882
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:12,880
I did do it.

883
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:18,280
I've been doing it since like 98, but I got really drawn into what's called more biomedical

884
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,800
acupuncture and dry needling.

885
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,240
And my focus was on musculoskeletal pain.

886
00:53:23,240 --> 00:53:27,280
I know there's a lot of other utilization for it with internal disorders and mental

887
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:28,280
health.

888
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,240
That was not my niche.

889
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:34,400
I've seen it performed there, you know, to help those things.

890
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:41,480
But biomedical acupuncture was developed by Chan, by Yuntao Ma, who was a neuroscientist

891
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,440
training from Clemson, but from China.

892
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:50,120
And he diagnosed or he dissected about, I don't know, almost all the acupuncture points.

893
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,960
And he found 11 that had the most nervous system input.

894
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:59,680
And if you address those, you could stimulate afferent and efferent messages going back

895
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,560
and forth to the brain and the central nervous system.

896
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,280
And it just made a lot of sense.

897
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:10,640
And I read his book a dozen times, at least, and then learned dry needling, where that

898
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:18,560
also pulled in more Western understanding of anatomy and physiology and was based more

899
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:24,280
in just kind of what I learned as a chiropractor, anatomy and physiology and how the body worked,

900
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:29,680
not to discount the five elements or yin yang or any of that.

901
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:34,400
That was just not something that, like, I could explain to other people or truthfully,

902
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,080
that made a lot of sense to me.

903
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:40,200
Your liver chi is messed up and that's causing your headache.

904
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,720
Okay, I'm not your guy.

905
00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:48,440
I mean, I get that said, I taught for seven years in acupuncture colleges.

906
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:49,960
So I believe it.

907
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:50,960
I've been around it.

908
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:52,040
I witnessed it.

909
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:53,680
I worked in the student clinic.

910
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:59,080
I worked with those students and those professors that were way smarter than me on that sort

911
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:00,080
of stuff.

912
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:06,400
I worked with a woman who came from Beijing that we sponsored, who is phenomenal.

913
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:11,800
I still refer people to her at the University of Colorado that I can't help.

914
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:13,380
And for more internal things.

915
00:55:13,380 --> 00:55:19,200
And so I think there's a lot there that can be done to help people manage their pain.

916
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:22,680
Here's my understanding, especially of dry needling and biomedical acupunctures, we're

917
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,100
creating a lesion in the body with the needle.

918
00:55:26,100 --> 00:55:28,040
The body knows that injury is there.

919
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,800
And this has also been shown, University of Vermont School of Medicine did a bunch of

920
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:32,800
research on this.

921
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,840
That lesion stimulates a healing response.

922
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:39,520
Anti-inflammatories, cytokines are released.

923
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,240
They're released locally, anti-inflammatories, all that.

924
00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:44,080
They're released locally at the needle site.

925
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:47,040
Then they get into the blood and they go everywhere.

926
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,320
And they stimulate, they bring homeostasis back.

927
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:51,960
If you're inflamed, it's going to reduce it.

928
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,240
If you need circulation, it's going to happen.

929
00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:59,960
If you need to decrease inflammation, those cytokines are anti-inflammatory.

930
00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:01,240
And so people get better.

931
00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:05,400
It's a non-specific healing modality.

932
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:10,720
And then when you start twisting the needle and you can feel this, it's grabbing the fascia

933
00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:12,560
and turning it.

934
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:18,080
And that's getting a mechanical change to the muscles and the fascia and the connective

935
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:23,160
tissue where it's stimulating those tissues to repair themselves.

936
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:27,800
And so on the musculoskeletal pain front, it's been a game changer for me.

937
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:34,720
And when I could explain this stuff like that to physicians, all of a sudden they bought

938
00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:35,720
it.

939
00:56:35,720 --> 00:56:40,120
Because I was speaking their language and my goal was to work with them, not alienate

940
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:41,720
myself from them.

941
00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:45,760
And once I could explain it and they understood it, boom, I started working with them.

942
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,320
I started getting referrals and people started getting better.

943
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,800
And however you get there, to me, all roads lead to Rome.

944
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:58,240
And when I studied at the University of Beijing in China in 2007, I don't want to come across

945
00:56:58,240 --> 00:57:02,400
like I know everything, but I left there and go, all right, I'm on the right track.

946
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:07,040
They're doing very similar things, but they're saying it a little differently.

947
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:11,280
And so I felt, and I'm super confident with my needling skills.

948
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:16,620
And then I went to Janet Trevelle, which hardly anybody remembers anymore.

949
00:57:16,620 --> 00:57:21,440
She was John F. Kennedy's physician because he had chronic back pain after a failed back

950
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:23,920
surgery in the 60s.

951
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:28,960
And she treated him using trigger point injections.

952
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:36,580
And so Chan Gunn, an MD in Canada, started what was called dry needling.

953
00:57:36,580 --> 00:57:41,520
Instead of injecting stuff with an injection trigger point, he just would use an acupuncture

954
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:45,280
needle and disrupt the tight spots.

955
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:46,920
And so I used her textbook.

956
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:55,520
She wrote two textbooks on how she was getting the muscles with the steroid or with the lidocaine.

957
00:57:55,520 --> 00:58:00,200
And I was like, well, if you can get to this muscle that way, I'm going to needle it with

958
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,060
just an acupuncture needle.

959
00:58:02,060 --> 00:58:09,680
And I just kept pushing my knowledge and hands-on skill, taking from everywhere that I could

960
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:15,400
and using her technique, needle techniques or injection techniques to do dry needling

961
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:16,400
with.

962
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:18,520
So that's sort of my path to it.

963
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,080
I'm grateful for the time I spent at the acupuncture college.

964
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:29,920
Oh my God, I saw in Boulder, I'm blanking on his name, but I took my mom there after

965
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:31,040
a stroke.

966
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:37,080
And he got her so much relief before I was confident to do this stuff myself.

967
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:43,960
And I saw him just do literally miraculous stuff with the needle and his wife with the

968
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:44,960
herbs.

969
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:45,960
It was absolutely miraculous.

970
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:49,020
So I know there's something to that as well.

971
00:58:49,020 --> 00:58:54,480
What is the difference between traditional acupuncture and dry needling?

972
00:58:54,480 --> 00:59:02,040
Traditional acupuncture uses the five elements, fire, water, air, water, fire, water, air,

973
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:08,240
metal, wood as imbalances, yin-yang.

974
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:12,080
So too hot, too cold, too damp, something.

975
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:14,240
It's imbalanced, right?

976
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:21,440
And that's what that symbol means is these things coexist together, darkness and light

977
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:23,760
coexist.

978
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:25,320
And it's in a balance.

979
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:32,160
And so they believe in this energetic flow of these meridians, 12 main meridians, fire,

980
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:38,280
water, or no, long, large intestine, stomach, spleen, et cetera, and that they become imbalanced

981
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,200
and we can balance them back out.

982
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:44,600
And the flow of the energy will bring homeostasis.

983
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,080
Dry needling is very Western.

984
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:52,880
We're looking at the muscles, the trigger points, the imbalances of the muscles, the

985
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,400
hypertonicity, the ropey bands.

986
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,760
And we're going into that with a needle to loosen those up.

987
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:04,900
Interestingly, about 75% of acupuncture points are on trigger points.

988
01:00:04,900 --> 01:00:07,740
So there is this overflow, overlap.

989
01:00:07,740 --> 01:00:12,800
And I think a lot of the alternative medicine or more traditional medicines like you or

990
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:18,840
what would you call it, natural medicines, Ayurvedic medicine talks about prana, Chinese

991
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:23,440
medicine talks about chi, chiropractic talks about innate.

992
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:29,000
We're all saying the same thing with a different word is that there's this natural healing

993
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:38,160
ability in our body that needs to be let loose, added to, things removed from allowing it

994
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:43,920
to flow properly, nurtured, nourished something.

995
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:49,720
So we're all saying the same thing and just all roads lead to Rome except in a different

996
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:50,720
way.

997
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:51,720
Beautiful.

998
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:52,720
Well, thanks for that description.

999
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:54,920
I've never actually heard the difference before.

1000
01:00:54,920 --> 01:01:02,360
I want to move then to the world of PRP, stem cell, bone marrow concentrate.

1001
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:07,040
So obviously there's a couple of specific ones that you do at Regenics, but talk to

1002
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:12,820
me about the differences between all of these kind of elements of this group.

1003
01:01:12,820 --> 01:01:18,060
So bone marrow concentrate is what we use out of the iliac crest.

1004
01:01:18,060 --> 01:01:24,720
It's got a lot of different cells in it, but Arnold Kaplan, who just passed away, his

1005
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:30,960
time as a researcher at Case Western Reserve discovered this cell in bone marrow concentrate

1006
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:33,760
called the mesenchymal stem cell.

1007
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:40,220
And this thing can turn into our body, can turn into ligament cartilage, bone and tendon.

1008
01:01:40,220 --> 01:01:41,220
That's what it does.

1009
01:01:41,220 --> 01:01:48,380
That's what it does naturally and how we can repair some things naturally by that.

1010
01:01:48,380 --> 01:01:52,660
And so that's one spectrum of the body's ability to heal.

1011
01:01:52,660 --> 01:01:59,520
We take those cells, we concentrate them and using a needle, an injection needle and video

1012
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:06,280
x-ray, fluoroscopy or ultrasound, we can put all those cells, bone marrow concentrate cells

1013
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:12,400
into an arthritic knee, into a ligament tear and do a tendon tear and get the body to increase

1014
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:19,740
its own circulation, develop new blood vessels, even bring those cells, those cells specifically

1015
01:02:19,740 --> 01:02:25,320
call in other cells, ligament cartilage, bone tendon cells, tell them what to do to do the

1016
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:26,520
repair job.

1017
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:28,640
And then they can turn into your brick and mortar.

1018
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:34,960
And so we've got papers and before and after MRIs where you can see certain rotator cuff

1019
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:39,560
tears repair themselves, certain ACL tears repair themselves.

1020
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:45,160
If there's a few strands of fiber left or it's not separated by a big distance, adding

1021
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:47,760
those cells in there can do that.

1022
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:53,680
And then platelet rich plasma comes out of the blood like a blood draw, again, concentrating

1023
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:58,160
the platelets, getting rid of the red blood cells and for the most part, the white blood

1024
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:05,040
cells, but getting the platelets and platelets have in them growth factors against cytokines

1025
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:11,800
and other growth factors that can stimulate the body's repair, increasing circulation,

1026
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:18,280
reducing inflammation and getting those local repair cells in a joint to work harder longer.

1027
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:23,080
So when we cut our finger, it scabs and platelets heal that.

1028
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:26,760
But why isn't it doing it for my torn rotator cuff?

1029
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:31,440
Because those platelets are literally around the globe because we got that many blood vessels

1030
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:32,860
and they're everywhere.

1031
01:03:32,860 --> 01:03:34,760
They're not all there.

1032
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:42,800
So when we concentrate them and put them all there, wherever there is, they can stimulate

1033
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:47,040
those cells that are locally there to do a repair job.

1034
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:51,960
So that's what we're using to help people avoid elective orthopedic surgeries.

1035
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:55,120
Our focus is only musculoskeletal.

1036
01:03:55,120 --> 01:04:02,640
Both those cell types are delivered with ultrasound and or fluoroscopy by a physician who knows

1037
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:09,440
how to use those tools and is trained and skilled at getting the needle to the right

1038
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:10,880
place.

1039
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:15,440
So what is the difference between that and some of the stem cell therapies we hear in

1040
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:18,700
Panama and some of those other countries?

1041
01:04:18,700 --> 01:04:24,200
So some of those other countries are, in particular in Panama, are taking someone else's cells

1042
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:26,880
like cord blood.

1043
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:28,480
So they're not yours.

1044
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:32,280
We only use the patient cells called autologous.

1045
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:35,720
So they're yours and they go right back into you in a couple of hours.

1046
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:43,800
What they're doing is taking someone else's cells and growing them in a Petri dish and

1047
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:50,600
mostly the mesenchymal stem cells and either putting them back in in an IV to go everywhere

1048
01:04:50,600 --> 01:05:00,000
or injecting those into an arthritic joint or something to that level.

1049
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:08,400
Now we do that as well in Grand Cayman where we have a clinic where their government allows

1050
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:10,200
that to happen.

1051
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:17,880
And so we have a stem cell culturing clinic there where again, but they're your cells

1052
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:22,960
and then we bank them and then we culture them and you can get, I don't know, a dozen

1053
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:25,740
or so treatments out of those.

1054
01:05:25,740 --> 01:05:33,160
But the upside of that is that those are your cells and you're getting the Regenexx physicians

1055
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:38,640
who were the first in the United States to do this sort of stem cell culturing, bone

1056
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,080
marrow concentrate culturing.

1057
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:48,520
And so you're getting all of our knowledge down there with American doctors that are

1058
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:51,720
following best practices.

1059
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:57,600
And again, the only focus of that clinic there is orthopedics as well.

1060
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:01,080
So same day cells here, all we can do is concentrate them.

1061
01:06:01,080 --> 01:06:02,960
That's all the FDA allows.

1062
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:03,960
Leave the country.

1063
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:09,880
You can start to culture those and grow the number of those out into bigger numbers.

1064
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:10,880
Beautiful.

1065
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:12,000
I love Grand Cayman.

1066
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:16,240
They have afternoon tea and they drive on the correct side of the road.

1067
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:20,640
You know, I was down there with Doug Orchard and he was driving me around and I was a nervous

1068
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:24,560
wreck in the back seat with him on the other side.

1069
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:25,560
Yeah, yeah.

1070
01:06:25,560 --> 01:06:28,880
He handled it well.

1071
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:33,160
Well going back to the bone marrow concentrate, and that's what's available to people here

1072
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:34,500
in the US.

1073
01:06:34,500 --> 01:06:38,880
Talk to me about some of the success stories, whether it's in the sporting industry or some

1074
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,840
of the tactical professions that are listening.

1075
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:43,680
Yeah, so it's interesting.

1076
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:46,800
Everyone wants to talk about athletes and we treat our fair share of athletes.

1077
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:49,720
We don't promote it because they don't want it promoted, right?

1078
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:53,840
We really protect that and they lose value when people know they're injured, but they

1079
01:06:53,840 --> 01:07:00,960
do come to us to get more time out of their career and knowing that we are the top notch

1080
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,980
kind of clinic and clinicians to do this work.

1081
01:07:03,980 --> 01:07:10,440
That said, you know, we treat the 99% of people most of the time, just regular people who

1082
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:14,360
are trying to avoid surgery, who want to get out of pain, who want to get off meds, who

1083
01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:18,520
want to get back to doing a lot of their normal activities.

1084
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:26,880
Now we brought this to the self-funded employer benefits space and now we've got about 2000

1085
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:32,680
employers who cover this under their health insurance for about a million people across

1086
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:35,280
the United States have access to this.

1087
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:39,640
The self-insured, the self-funded employer has skin in the game.

1088
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:43,680
They're paying the first 50 to $100,000 for every employee.

1089
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:49,360
You might have that insurance card, but that employer is paying that, those claims.

1090
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:54,580
Once it gets past that deductible of 50 or $100,000, then an insurance company picks

1091
01:07:54,580 --> 01:07:55,580
it up.

1092
01:07:55,580 --> 01:07:59,760
So they got skin in the game to try to control costs and this is one solution.

1093
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:04,960
Now to your point, we work with a lot of firefighters across the country.

1094
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:11,480
We work with, I don't know, three, 400 fire departments, multiple fire trusts.

1095
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:17,720
And my time at Denver Health, I took care of Denver fire and all you guys have little

1096
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:19,040
injuries, right?

1097
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:25,160
Just from the work, whether it's injured on duty or in the gym.

1098
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:28,360
And if you're busy and active, we all have our aches and pains.

1099
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:36,120
And so we treat a lot of first responders, fire personnel, and they love it because mostly

1100
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:37,460
they want to stay on the rig.

1101
01:08:37,460 --> 01:08:38,720
They don't want the downtime.

1102
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:43,480
Otherwise they just keep working through the pain, which I get it.

1103
01:08:43,480 --> 01:08:46,960
But that's also a little potentially dangerous, right?

1104
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:53,560
If you got to help your buddy out or someone else and you're injured or working in pain,

1105
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:55,240
it can impair that.

1106
01:08:55,240 --> 01:09:01,560
So our value proposition to employers is orthopedic surgery avoidance.

1107
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:07,280
And if people didn't already go to Cairo or PT or whatever, we'll send them there first

1108
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:10,180
so they maybe don't need us.

1109
01:09:10,180 --> 01:09:15,960
And so that's kind of how we're working with employers and first responders.

1110
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:18,840
And I'll tell you, the fire personnel, they love it.

1111
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:23,160
They absolutely love it because like I said, you know, you guys are physically fit and

1112
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:24,160
want to stay that way.

1113
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:29,600
Well, that's the irony is that preventative or a lot of these holistic methods are just

1114
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:32,800
less expensive and more often than not more effective as well.

1115
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:34,960
I mean, my back is a perfect example of that.

1116
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:41,600
So seeing departments and insurance companies start to embrace chiropractic and therapies

1117
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:48,120
like Regenexx, just like staffing in the fire department, we'll get to sleep in a second.

1118
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:54,720
But they have resisted change because they don't want to pay the extra money to get more

1119
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:56,480
people into the department.

1120
01:09:56,480 --> 01:10:00,960
But the long term savings is really what's starting to change people's minds now.

1121
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:05,520
They're realizing that they're actually saving a lot of money by investing in their people

1122
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:10,240
on the front end rather than trying to put them back together when they're already broken.

1123
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:17,040
Yeah, that's so important right there because it's inevitable that people are going to get

1124
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:21,360
hurt or injured to help them get better quickly.

1125
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:30,280
And it's somewhat incumbent on the employer to help facilitate that because they get a

1126
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:32,880
lot out of it as well.

1127
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:39,240
We were talking about the kind of philosophy out there that the body can't heal itself.

1128
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:43,560
And you look at, I mean, Forks Over Knives, for example, great documentary.

1129
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:47,120
It doesn't mean in my opinion you need to be plant-based the rest of your life.

1130
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:51,680
But if you want to reverse heart disease and obesity, I think plant-based diets are a great

1131
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:53,480
star.

1132
01:10:53,480 --> 01:10:58,000
And you see these success stories of patients that were given to the study after the other

1133
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:02,960
physicians had given up on them and then they end up living for decades after.

1134
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:06,960
So we know there's a lot of reversible elements for a lot of disease.

1135
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:11,360
One thing where people still seem to be set in their ways is arthritis.

1136
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:20,280
Now to my very white belt level understanding of medicine, to me, it's still inflammation.

1137
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:25,080
And therefore, if you can address things that put the body into inflammation, whether it's

1138
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:30,520
muscle balance, whether it's gut biome, in my understanding, you can then reverse some

1139
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:33,800
of the inflammation and arthritis is one of them.

1140
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:36,040
Talk to me about that.

1141
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:39,880
There's this kind of doom and gloom element about, well, it seems like I haven't met a

1142
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:42,200
person yet that hasn't said, oh, I'm bone on bone.

1143
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:45,440
And I'm not 100% sure that everyone is bone on bone.

1144
01:11:45,440 --> 01:11:51,480
So what have you seen as far as the perception of how bad arthritis is in a lot of people

1145
01:11:51,480 --> 01:11:59,840
that come to you versus the reality and possible irreversibility of some of this pain and degeneration?

1146
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:05,720
Yeah, the knee is definitely the number one body part we treat.

1147
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:09,440
Knee one and then one A, I call it, is lumbar spine.

1148
01:12:09,440 --> 01:12:13,440
Those are two areas that are definitely prone to injury on people.

1149
01:12:13,440 --> 01:12:18,040
Low back pain is the leading cause of disability in the world.

1150
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:21,720
We don't have great treatments for it in traditional medicine.

1151
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:28,200
And so we do see a lot of patients who have bad knee osteoarthritis.

1152
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:34,960
And some can get symptomatic relief if they're willing to take the initiative to eat better,

1153
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:39,960
clean up their gut health, make sure they get good sleep, exercise to the ability that

1154
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:47,760
they're capable of, and calm down the inflammation, which is going to improve some of the symptoms.

1155
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:53,000
That's a lot of, you know, we're sitting on 10 tacks.

1156
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:59,160
And if you remove two or three of them and you're sitting on eight or seven, it still hurts.

1157
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:05,320
And so sometimes you just got to go to the next level and try something to calm it down.

1158
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:09,760
You know, traditionally, medicines use steroid injections, right?

1159
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:11,240
Anti-inflammatory.

1160
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:13,560
My patients would ask me, how long am I going to feel better?

1161
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:15,880
And then my cynical, but it's my experience.

1162
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:17,680
I'd tell them two hours to two weeks.

1163
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:18,680
That's it.

1164
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:19,880
Those things wear off.

1165
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:23,360
Steroids kill stem cells locally in the joint.

1166
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:28,640
If you have them in your shoulder, they could cause another rotator cuff tear if you had

1167
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:33,880
surgery, if you have it in your knee before surgery, you know, you could have an infection

1168
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:34,880
after surgery.

1169
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:36,680
All this is well documented.

1170
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:42,720
And so controlling inflammation is a good thing, but doing it with steroids is not.

1171
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:44,960
It comes with a big downside.

1172
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:50,360
The platelets, the bone marrow concentrate, those are also anti-inflammatory.

1173
01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:55,720
And so when we put those into a bad knee, they can change that environment, right?

1174
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,300
In an arthritic knee, that environment is catabolic.

1175
01:13:58,300 --> 01:14:00,520
It's breaking down, right?

1176
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:02,080
And that's causing problems.

1177
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:04,160
It's causing pain.

1178
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:09,320
That's causing a lot of cartilage to wear out and become more inflamed.

1179
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:14,020
And then so once we put those cells in there, we can change that environment from catabolic

1180
01:14:14,020 --> 01:14:16,200
breakdown to more anabolic.

1181
01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:18,100
Now we're not going to see a meniscus grow.

1182
01:14:18,100 --> 01:14:22,600
We're not going to see, you know, the joint space go from, you know, bone on bone to

1183
01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:23,600
this.

1184
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:29,780
But at the cellular level and at the symptom level, people are definitely feeling better.

1185
01:14:29,780 --> 01:14:31,380
Their range of motion is better.

1186
01:14:31,380 --> 01:14:33,640
Their ability to function is better.

1187
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:35,020
Their pain is better.

1188
01:14:35,020 --> 01:14:36,580
How do we know?

1189
01:14:36,580 --> 01:14:37,580
We track that.

1190
01:14:37,580 --> 01:14:42,620
We have the world's largest registry with about close to 100,000 patients whose data

1191
01:14:42,620 --> 01:14:48,860
we've been following since 2005 when we started this, their outcomes, and it's self-reported,

1192
01:14:48,860 --> 01:14:51,420
but we use standardized questionnaires.

1193
01:14:51,420 --> 01:14:53,520
We break it down by body part.

1194
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:56,380
And then we break it down by pain function and overall improvement.

1195
01:14:56,380 --> 01:15:03,180
I was just looking at our knee data where there's like 19,000 patients in that cohort

1196
01:15:03,180 --> 01:15:11,020
and pain drops 45% from time zero before the procedure to one month later.

1197
01:15:11,020 --> 01:15:13,140
And it stays low for six years.

1198
01:15:13,140 --> 01:15:15,900
We follow people for six years.

1199
01:15:15,900 --> 01:15:21,300
And so we know that that's what's happening is those joints are changing from breakdown

1200
01:15:21,300 --> 01:15:23,940
to catabolic to from catabolic to anabolic.

1201
01:15:23,940 --> 01:15:31,380
So from breakdown to repair and symptomatically, people are doing a lot better.

1202
01:15:31,380 --> 01:15:35,040
And it's not just about squirting it in the joint, right?

1203
01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:40,900
Because when a joint starts breaking down, especially as it narrows, the ligaments, oh,

1204
01:15:40,900 --> 01:15:43,580
let me do this.

1205
01:15:43,580 --> 01:15:46,380
Ta-da.

1206
01:15:46,380 --> 01:15:51,980
As the joint space starts to break down in a knee, these ligaments, which were once tight,

1207
01:15:51,980 --> 01:15:54,920
get lax because the space is narrow.

1208
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:59,340
And then you get abnormal motion in the joint because the ligaments aren't holding it together.

1209
01:15:59,340 --> 01:16:03,820
And now the cartilage in the meniscus is starting to grind in there.

1210
01:16:03,820 --> 01:16:09,340
And so when we go in, and so sometimes also in a knee, as the cartilage on the end of

1211
01:16:09,340 --> 01:16:14,780
the bone, the articular cartilage wears out, the bone will crack and fissure and synovial

1212
01:16:14,780 --> 01:16:18,140
fluid will go into the bone causing a bone marrow lesion.

1213
01:16:18,140 --> 01:16:20,520
There's a whole lot going on here.

1214
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:25,980
So when we inject these things, we tighten the ligaments, we put it in the meniscus,

1215
01:16:25,980 --> 01:16:30,660
we hit the ACL if we need to, we'll get it into the articular cartilage.

1216
01:16:30,660 --> 01:16:36,740
We will put bone marrow concentrate into the bone marrow lesion.

1217
01:16:36,740 --> 01:16:42,300
All of that is how you holistically treat an arthritic joint to get another six to 10

1218
01:16:42,300 --> 01:16:45,620
years of good function out of it.

1219
01:16:45,620 --> 01:16:50,900
So people get good results when we do it this way.

1220
01:16:50,900 --> 01:16:52,660
And it's not for everybody either.

1221
01:16:52,660 --> 01:16:54,980
We give everyone a good, fair, poor candidacy grading.

1222
01:16:54,980 --> 01:16:58,900
And if you're a poor candidate, and some people are, we're not going to do it because we know

1223
01:16:58,900 --> 01:17:00,380
it's not going to help.

1224
01:17:00,380 --> 01:17:05,220
Well, I mean, when I think about my knees, I've got, I had jug handle tears on both my

1225
01:17:05,220 --> 01:17:08,180
meniscus, so they've both been snipped.

1226
01:17:08,180 --> 01:17:12,660
And so this is something I'm definitely going to look into in the future.

1227
01:17:12,660 --> 01:17:16,860
However, when I was able to get the swelling down initially after the surgery, and then

1228
01:17:16,860 --> 01:17:18,260
I love CBD as well.

1229
01:17:18,260 --> 01:17:22,660
So it's another thing I use for pain and sleep and some other things.

1230
01:17:22,660 --> 01:17:28,620
But then when the pain is down, you're able to start moving more, which in turn is, so

1231
01:17:28,620 --> 01:17:34,780
it's this kind of, I think self-fulfilling prophecy is the wrong phrase, but it's a positive

1232
01:17:34,780 --> 01:17:39,980
vicious circle, you know, where as you heal, you start addressing imbalances, you get more

1233
01:17:39,980 --> 01:17:43,020
exercise, you get more blood flow into the joint.

1234
01:17:43,020 --> 01:17:44,980
You know, maybe you're getting now into yoga.

1235
01:17:44,980 --> 01:17:47,660
And so now you're addressing the things that are making it worse.

1236
01:17:47,660 --> 01:17:53,380
So it makes so much sense to me versus, for example, you know, having lumbar bones fused

1237
01:17:53,380 --> 01:17:58,140
together, you're actually pushing the other way, less activity, and therefore probably

1238
01:17:58,140 --> 01:18:00,420
more surgeries down the road.

1239
01:18:00,420 --> 01:18:01,420
Right.

1240
01:18:01,420 --> 01:18:02,420
Exactly.

1241
01:18:02,420 --> 01:18:07,900
That's why there's an ICD-10 diagnosis code called adjacent segment disease.

1242
01:18:07,900 --> 01:18:13,340
When you fuse the segments above and below, got to take on more motion.

1243
01:18:13,340 --> 01:18:14,860
And so they wear out.

1244
01:18:14,860 --> 01:18:19,660
And the number one predictor of back surgery is a previous back surgery.

1245
01:18:19,660 --> 01:18:25,580
And so, yeah, that's just a short, you know, short solution.

1246
01:18:25,580 --> 01:18:31,520
And to the point of, you know, positive, you know, cycle, there's the negative cycle too,

1247
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:33,020
when you're in pain.

1248
01:18:33,020 --> 01:18:35,620
People in pain are greater utilizers of the health care system.

1249
01:18:35,620 --> 01:18:38,860
And, you know, they, I've seen this my whole career.

1250
01:18:38,860 --> 01:18:42,500
Their weight goes up, their diabetes gets worse, their blood pressure gets worse, their

1251
01:18:42,500 --> 01:18:43,500
sleep gets worse.

1252
01:18:43,500 --> 01:18:46,180
And we know what happens when sleep gets bad.

1253
01:18:46,180 --> 01:18:52,020
Just it's a bad cycle to be in pain and limiting your motion and your movement because you

1254
01:18:52,020 --> 01:18:55,060
only get weaker, you only get sicker.

1255
01:18:55,060 --> 01:18:59,940
And so, you know, trying to address that either through what you're talking about natural

1256
01:18:59,940 --> 01:19:06,940
kind of anti-inflammatory, calm things down, get out of pain or what we're doing or acupuncture.

1257
01:19:06,940 --> 01:19:11,580
But it needs, it's not going to be solved with just chemicals.

1258
01:19:11,580 --> 01:19:17,980
How much does the weight of the individual factor into the degeneration of their joints?

1259
01:19:17,980 --> 01:19:23,740
Again, I said, you know, 70% of our population is obese or overweight.

1260
01:19:23,740 --> 01:19:29,140
Just the loss of weight, how much would that help someone with joint pain?

1261
01:19:29,140 --> 01:19:33,860
I forget what the actual physics and math is, but on a knee, it's going to be a huge

1262
01:19:33,860 --> 01:19:34,860
difference.

1263
01:19:34,860 --> 01:19:37,500
It can definitely make a big difference.

1264
01:19:37,500 --> 01:19:42,180
But then, you know, people with knee pain, it's hard for them to exercise.

1265
01:19:42,180 --> 01:19:43,980
So there's that catch-22.

1266
01:19:43,980 --> 01:19:47,520
But I was just looking at the rate of growth for knee replacements.

1267
01:19:47,520 --> 01:19:49,420
It's very steep.

1268
01:19:49,420 --> 01:19:53,660
And one has to wonder, well, there's a couple influences there.

1269
01:19:53,660 --> 01:19:56,860
One has to wonder how much obesity is playing on that, right?

1270
01:19:56,860 --> 01:20:03,580
There's definitely that thing that's causing it to wear out a lot faster, driving the necessity

1271
01:20:03,580 --> 01:20:06,420
for a joint replacement.

1272
01:20:06,420 --> 01:20:11,620
And then same in the low back, right?

1273
01:20:11,620 --> 01:20:12,780
Same thing in the low back.

1274
01:20:12,780 --> 01:20:16,540
If you have that big pendulous abdomen, it's going to alter your mechanics and you're carrying

1275
01:20:16,540 --> 01:20:19,220
around, you know, 30, 40 pounds.

1276
01:20:19,220 --> 01:20:23,300
And that abdominal fat, as you know, James, is inflammatory.

1277
01:20:23,300 --> 01:20:28,780
So you're already feeding, you're fueling the fire to that max when you're walking around

1278
01:20:28,780 --> 01:20:34,100
with a lot of excess fat and weight and upregulating inflammatory chemicals.

1279
01:20:34,100 --> 01:20:36,420
What have you seen about our younger people?

1280
01:20:36,420 --> 01:20:41,340
I've made this observation numerous times when it comes to the youth athlete in the

1281
01:20:41,340 --> 01:20:42,340
States.

1282
01:20:42,340 --> 01:20:47,700
Sometimes the lines are blurred between performance and winning your organization medals and the

1283
01:20:47,700 --> 01:20:49,940
wellness of our youth athlete.

1284
01:20:49,940 --> 01:20:55,380
However, that aside, removing that from the equation, as we are seeing our youth getting

1285
01:20:55,380 --> 01:21:00,460
more and more overweight and deconditioned, you know, the posture is starting to change.

1286
01:21:00,460 --> 01:21:05,300
Are you seeing disease processes that you would have seen in much older people starting

1287
01:21:05,300 --> 01:21:09,540
to appear in younger and younger people?

1288
01:21:09,540 --> 01:21:13,660
I think biomechanically, it's going to cause a lot of problems and not when they're in

1289
01:21:13,660 --> 01:21:19,900
their 40s and 50s like in 60s like it is with us, but at a lot younger age.

1290
01:21:19,900 --> 01:21:20,900
So absolutely.

1291
01:21:20,900 --> 01:21:27,580
And, you know, young girls tear ACLs frequently in soccer and in other sports.

1292
01:21:27,580 --> 01:21:29,940
Maybe that has something to do with it.

1293
01:21:29,940 --> 01:21:34,860
I think our nutrition, you know, if you're feeding the cells Twinkies, that's what they're

1294
01:21:34,860 --> 01:21:36,200
being built out of.

1295
01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:38,660
So there's that.

1296
01:21:38,660 --> 01:21:44,540
What do we know about fatty liver or not fatty liver, non-alcoholic fatty liver disease,

1297
01:21:44,540 --> 01:21:47,000
massive in children.

1298
01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:54,340
And that's from high fructose corn syrup and is going to drive, you know, liver disease

1299
01:21:54,340 --> 01:21:55,340
like crazy.

1300
01:21:55,340 --> 01:21:59,900
And we're seeing that in young people at very high levels.

1301
01:21:59,900 --> 01:22:06,200
And so, you know, liver disease, cirrhosis, liver transplants, you know, I'm sure the

1302
01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:11,100
pharmaceutical industry is chomping at the bit to find something to, you know, to treat

1303
01:22:11,100 --> 01:22:13,100
that sort of thing.

1304
01:22:13,100 --> 01:22:19,340
Instead of us saying, let's clean up our diet or telling more people like we didn't during

1305
01:22:19,340 --> 01:22:25,140
COVID, get some sunshine, try to back down on the high fructose corn syrup.

1306
01:22:25,140 --> 01:22:26,340
But it's everywhere.

1307
01:22:26,340 --> 01:22:27,340
It's just everywhere.

1308
01:22:27,340 --> 01:22:33,500
And if it's not that, it's, you know, rice syrup or it's, you know, what sugar comes

1309
01:22:33,500 --> 01:22:35,300
by 53 different names.

1310
01:22:35,300 --> 01:22:37,620
So it's hidden everywhere.

1311
01:22:37,620 --> 01:22:40,340
So yeah, we're starting to see that big time.

1312
01:22:40,340 --> 01:22:43,320
And I think we're going to just only continue to see it.

1313
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:49,060
This is where, you know, I called bullshit on the whole leaning on, oh, we're so concerned

1314
01:22:49,060 --> 01:22:55,220
about your health during the pandemic, because if that was truly heartfelt, then the soda

1315
01:22:55,220 --> 01:22:57,340
machines would have been removed from schools.

1316
01:22:57,340 --> 01:23:01,180
And our dinner ladies and men would be serving real food like they used to.

1317
01:23:01,180 --> 01:23:02,940
It's not like we're asking anything crazy.

1318
01:23:02,940 --> 01:23:06,420
They used to cook real food, you know, a few decades ago.

1319
01:23:06,420 --> 01:23:08,500
PE programs would be bolstered.

1320
01:23:08,500 --> 01:23:09,500
Sports programs would be bolstered.

1321
01:23:09,500 --> 01:23:11,300
Arts programs would be bolstered.

1322
01:23:11,300 --> 01:23:15,620
You know, there'd be more recess time, less standardized testing, but we didn't see any

1323
01:23:15,620 --> 01:23:16,620
of that.

1324
01:23:16,620 --> 01:23:19,900
So when they were screaming like, you know, oh, you're murdering people if you're not

1325
01:23:19,900 --> 01:23:23,660
doing A, B and C, well, where's your accountability now?

1326
01:23:23,660 --> 01:23:28,900
We relied on you to make the population healthier and they've actually got fatter and sicker.

1327
01:23:28,900 --> 01:23:29,900
Right.

1328
01:23:29,900 --> 01:23:31,300
Yeah, I know.

1329
01:23:31,300 --> 01:23:36,180
And I think that's going to really come back and continue to bite us on the butt and build

1330
01:23:36,180 --> 01:23:40,460
a society of people who don't believe anybody.

1331
01:23:40,460 --> 01:23:46,740
And, you know, again, all this fighting that is constantly now ubiquitous everywhere.

1332
01:23:46,740 --> 01:23:47,740
Yeah.

1333
01:23:47,740 --> 01:23:51,420
Well, I think I've again, I think that this might be the beginning of an awakening, though,

1334
01:23:51,420 --> 01:23:56,500
where there were people that call themselves leaders that we realized couldn't lead shit

1335
01:23:56,500 --> 01:24:00,380
because they were tested into the last two years.

1336
01:24:00,380 --> 01:24:05,300
So now I hope there's a real desire for real leaders and we get people that pull communities

1337
01:24:05,300 --> 01:24:09,420
back together and unite people and educate them on all the things.

1338
01:24:09,420 --> 01:24:13,180
And I mean, for example, come from England, I love the philosophy of the NHS.

1339
01:24:13,180 --> 01:24:18,020
Hey, we all chip in and whoever needs us at the time, whether it's someone having a baby,

1340
01:24:18,020 --> 01:24:23,300
whether it's an elderly lady or a four year old fighting leukemia, we're not going to

1341
01:24:23,300 --> 01:24:25,020
ask you for your social security number.

1342
01:24:25,020 --> 01:24:26,340
You just focus on getting better.

1343
01:24:26,340 --> 01:24:27,340
We got you.

1344
01:24:27,340 --> 01:24:28,460
I love that philosophy.

1345
01:24:28,460 --> 01:24:29,780
Is it flawless in the UK?

1346
01:24:29,780 --> 01:24:33,140
No, because it's been torn down and underfunded.

1347
01:24:33,140 --> 01:24:39,060
But for example, the altruism that most people study in their churches and temples, if we

1348
01:24:39,060 --> 01:24:45,100
apply that to the real world rather than this divisive nastiness and, you know, worshipping

1349
01:24:45,100 --> 01:24:50,100
of the monopoly, that maybe we can actually start undoing some of this damage.

1350
01:24:50,100 --> 01:24:52,140
Yeah, I'd like to think so.

1351
01:24:52,140 --> 01:24:57,580
And I like to think that, you know, my daughter's 11, that, you know, she's going to be in that

1352
01:24:57,580 --> 01:24:58,580
generation.

1353
01:24:58,580 --> 01:25:02,520
And, you know, I work with younger physicians who don't know anything about the history

1354
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:08,460
of chiropractic, like I told you, but just see me as a peer, a colleague and equal.

1355
01:25:08,460 --> 01:25:13,860
And I think this younger generation is going to be like, this shit makes no sense.

1356
01:25:13,860 --> 01:25:15,780
What the hell are we doing?

1357
01:25:15,780 --> 01:25:16,780
Like we're good.

1358
01:25:16,780 --> 01:25:18,100
This makes no sense.

1359
01:25:18,100 --> 01:25:23,580
I work with a young resident now and he's like questioning everything.

1360
01:25:23,580 --> 01:25:24,580
And I love it.

1361
01:25:24,580 --> 01:25:28,580
I'm like, yeah, dude, keep questioning, because those are stupid things that we're doing and

1362
01:25:28,580 --> 01:25:30,780
you're asking the right questions.

1363
01:25:30,780 --> 01:25:38,500
So I hope you know, you're right that we are on the tip of a revolution or, you know, some

1364
01:25:38,500 --> 01:25:42,900
improvement here that brings it back full circle.

1365
01:25:42,900 --> 01:25:47,160
That's a good segue to one point I want to make before we go to fasting.

1366
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:51,620
We have a hiring crisis in the first responder professions as a whole.

1367
01:25:51,620 --> 01:25:54,600
And you know, a lot of people are kind of, oh, these young generations, they don't want

1368
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:55,600
to work.

1369
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:57,100
And I tell you, I disagree.

1370
01:25:57,100 --> 01:25:58,100
The summer don't want to work.

1371
01:25:58,100 --> 01:26:01,980
Of course, we see videos of people crying over stuff with purple hair and I get that.

1372
01:26:01,980 --> 01:26:06,540
But the other 90 whatever percent of this population are our soldiers and firefighters

1373
01:26:06,540 --> 01:26:09,780
and police officers and nurses.

1374
01:26:09,780 --> 01:26:15,320
But as you just said, the difference is they're looking at the way that we've done it forever

1375
01:26:15,320 --> 01:26:17,860
and going, that makes no sense.

1376
01:26:17,860 --> 01:26:23,240
So 56 hours a week, I work, I don't sleep for 24 hours.

1377
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:27,020
And then two days later, I'm back doing the same thing away from my family.

1378
01:26:27,020 --> 01:26:32,540
And so it's really interesting because I think we've really hit a wall now where people are

1379
01:26:32,540 --> 01:26:35,380
realizing that if we keep doing it the way we're doing it, we're not going to have a

1380
01:26:35,380 --> 01:26:37,860
fire department or a police department anymore.

1381
01:26:37,860 --> 01:26:42,780
So these young people that some vilify the way that they look at the world is actually

1382
01:26:42,780 --> 01:26:45,880
the way that we need to look at my profession as well.

1383
01:26:45,880 --> 01:26:50,680
And the insanity of the firefighters work week, for example, is something that we have

1384
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:52,220
to change.

1385
01:26:52,220 --> 01:26:57,740
So with that being said, with your holistic lens, talk to me about the importance of sleep

1386
01:26:57,740 --> 01:27:03,860
and what you've seen when it comes to chronic sleep deprivation.

1387
01:27:03,860 --> 01:27:07,740
Well you know, I'm sure you know, shift work is a carcinogen, right?

1388
01:27:07,740 --> 01:27:08,740
Yes.

1389
01:27:08,740 --> 01:27:11,140
NIH considers it that.

1390
01:27:11,140 --> 01:27:14,540
It unravels everything in our biology.

1391
01:27:14,540 --> 01:27:21,660
And with light and food everywhere, it's easy to mess up the circadian rhythm.

1392
01:27:21,660 --> 01:27:29,540
And when you are either a shift worker or going to bed late or just not getting adequate

1393
01:27:29,540 --> 01:27:31,380
sleep, it affects everything.

1394
01:27:31,380 --> 01:27:35,860
And I don't think people, right, we grew up with the sleep when I'm dead.

1395
01:27:35,860 --> 01:27:37,740
I'm sure you heard that a million times.

1396
01:27:37,740 --> 01:27:38,740
And I kind of did that.

1397
01:27:38,740 --> 01:27:40,980
I was like, oh, fuck it.

1398
01:27:40,980 --> 01:27:42,700
I can handle this.

1399
01:27:42,700 --> 01:27:44,640
Macho.

1400
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:46,300
But that's just such a bad thing.

1401
01:27:46,300 --> 01:27:51,520
And thankfully Matthew Walker in his book, his book, Why We Sleep, I'm sure you're familiar

1402
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:52,520
with that, right?

1403
01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:53,520
Yeah, I am.

1404
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:54,520
But there's an even better one.

1405
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:57,940
I'll have to come back and I'll plug it in a second.

1406
01:27:57,940 --> 01:28:03,980
But Professor Russell Foster, he's actually the man that discovered the chronoreceptors

1407
01:28:03,980 --> 01:28:07,920
in the eye that even allow us to have a circadian rhythm.

1408
01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:09,220
So I'll look it up in a sec.

1409
01:28:09,220 --> 01:28:11,100
But his book is absolutely phenomenal.

1410
01:28:11,100 --> 01:28:12,100
Okay, great.

1411
01:28:12,100 --> 01:28:13,860
I'm going to have to check that one out.

1412
01:28:13,860 --> 01:28:19,140
But yeah, so sleep deprivation, which I think, you know, with your peers and your colleagues

1413
01:28:19,140 --> 01:28:24,660
in the fire station, you know, maybe why their injuries don't heal really well, maybe why

1414
01:28:24,660 --> 01:28:33,660
there, you know, why there's so much mental health issues that, you know, you're you see

1415
01:28:33,660 --> 01:28:35,540
such horrific things.

1416
01:28:35,540 --> 01:28:41,460
And then, you know, I don't know if it's a culture of the fire department, but the stoicism

1417
01:28:41,460 --> 01:28:48,160
and then I don't want to talk about it, kind of mentality that goes along with first responders.

1418
01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:52,780
You know, that's always my question to all new patients, any anxiety or oppression, cops

1419
01:28:52,780 --> 01:28:55,500
and firemen are perfect all the time.

1420
01:28:55,500 --> 01:28:58,940
Nope, good.

1421
01:28:58,940 --> 01:29:05,060
And so, yeah, so the lack of sleep, I just think is like the tip of the spear to making

1422
01:29:05,060 --> 01:29:09,200
little things bigger and worse.

1423
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:14,940
And it's just too easy to fall into that, you know, again, with light and food and social

1424
01:29:14,940 --> 01:29:21,940
media and computers and Netflix, and it's easy to not prioritize that and coffee all

1425
01:29:21,940 --> 01:29:23,900
the time.

1426
01:29:23,900 --> 01:29:27,860
Although that was a decaf because I prioritize sleep.

1427
01:29:27,860 --> 01:29:35,040
So I think it's I think sleep deprivation, whether it's self induced or work induced

1428
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:40,220
or whatever, it just takes something small and makes it even worse.

1429
01:29:40,220 --> 01:29:41,220
Absolutely.

1430
01:29:41,220 --> 01:29:45,100
This book is called Lifetime, by the way, it was a tip of my tongue.

1431
01:29:45,100 --> 01:29:47,380
What was I going to say then?

1432
01:29:47,380 --> 01:29:48,380
I just lost my thought.

1433
01:29:48,380 --> 01:29:52,580
I was going to add something to the sleep thing, but that's all good.

1434
01:29:52,580 --> 01:29:54,860
All right, I'll switch to the next one.

1435
01:29:54,860 --> 01:29:58,900
All right, well, then one more area I want to discuss before we go to some closing questions.

1436
01:29:58,900 --> 01:30:04,420
And it's funny because I just had Dr. Jonathan Edwards on and he mentioned the same study.

1437
01:30:04,420 --> 01:30:09,620
Talk to me about firefighters and intermittent fasting.

1438
01:30:09,620 --> 01:30:17,620
So you have a Salk Institute and Dr. Sashin Panda, who sort of leads that circadian program

1439
01:30:17,620 --> 01:30:18,620
there.

1440
01:30:18,620 --> 01:30:23,020
I've heard him speak at a couple of fasting conferences and he's got a book as well on

1441
01:30:23,020 --> 01:30:25,780
the circadian code, which is really interesting.

1442
01:30:25,780 --> 01:30:32,620
All of ourselves have a clock on them for everything where they're optimal and where

1443
01:30:32,620 --> 01:30:44,700
they're sleeping and intermittent fasting, which has become popular recently, can positively

1444
01:30:44,700 --> 01:30:49,980
help those clocks and eating within a certain narrower window.

1445
01:30:49,980 --> 01:30:54,940
It doesn't have to be one meal a day or it doesn't have to be 16, 8 or it doesn't have

1446
01:30:54,940 --> 01:30:58,200
to be something that maybe everyone can't do.

1447
01:30:58,200 --> 01:31:04,220
But in that San Diego Fire Department, they just narrowed their eating down to 10 hours.

1448
01:31:04,220 --> 01:31:09,580
And so an intermittent fast of 14 hours they could eat.

1449
01:31:09,580 --> 01:31:10,860
And I think it was ad libitum.

1450
01:31:10,860 --> 01:31:12,500
They didn't even tell them what to eat.

1451
01:31:12,500 --> 01:31:21,220
They just narrowed it down to more of a normal eating window, start at 7 and at 4 or something

1452
01:31:21,220 --> 01:31:22,220
to that degree.

1453
01:31:22,220 --> 01:31:25,940
I just read the study before we talked, but that was a few weeks ago.

1454
01:31:25,940 --> 01:31:31,380
And blood pressure got better, blood glucose got better, weight was dropped, all these

1455
01:31:31,380 --> 01:31:39,380
things that can occur when we're not forcing our body to operate in a time when it's not

1456
01:31:39,380 --> 01:31:44,580
really meant to operate, when it's not meant to be digesting, right?

1457
01:31:44,580 --> 01:31:52,260
Digestive juices and the pancreas start shutting down at 4 or 5 o'clock at night.

1458
01:31:52,260 --> 01:31:56,340
Circadian levels, we know this, are increasing with cortisol in the morning.

1459
01:31:56,340 --> 01:32:02,740
That's when you want to really optimize your workout or stop eating or what have you.

1460
01:32:02,740 --> 01:32:08,460
And so intermittent fasting, I mentioned it earlier, light and food are the two things

1461
01:32:08,460 --> 01:32:12,360
that mess up the circadian rhythm more than anything.

1462
01:32:12,360 --> 01:32:18,220
And so if you can try to rein it in by dimming the lights in your house and being done eating,

1463
01:32:18,220 --> 01:32:24,860
I usually recommend three hours before bed, but even at 7 o'clock, you're just going to

1464
01:32:24,860 --> 01:32:25,860
sleep better.

1465
01:32:25,860 --> 01:32:29,300
You're going to lose weight, inflammation is going to go down.

1466
01:32:29,300 --> 01:32:35,720
And if you're not doing, even if you're 12 hours, in my opinion, still a little too long.

1467
01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:40,500
But if you reduce that eating window to 10 hours or less, you're going to see some improvement

1468
01:32:40,500 --> 01:32:43,500
in all that, including your sleep.

1469
01:32:43,500 --> 01:32:47,820
I really like the intermittent fasting model versus the full on, you know, I'm going to

1470
01:32:47,820 --> 01:32:51,780
be in ketosis for forever, you know, extreme that some people thrive in.

1471
01:32:51,780 --> 01:32:57,260
But I think a lot of people fall off the wagon because I always just go back to, you know,

1472
01:32:57,260 --> 01:32:59,260
evolutionary, what makes the most sense.

1473
01:32:59,260 --> 01:33:02,900
And even though you're talking about acupuncture, you know, the chi and the meridians didn't

1474
01:33:02,900 --> 01:33:08,620
really resonate with you, but the way that you framed it did.

1475
01:33:08,620 --> 01:33:15,340
And so you think about caveman Steve, because everyone's called Steve when I tell stories.

1476
01:33:15,340 --> 01:33:20,460
You know, one day they come across an animal and, you know, and we were probably scavengers,

1477
01:33:20,460 --> 01:33:23,220
but at least, you know, they ate like kings that day.

1478
01:33:23,220 --> 01:33:24,220
And the next day there was nothing.

1479
01:33:24,220 --> 01:33:27,500
And then the next day there was a bush of berries and they were fine.

1480
01:33:27,500 --> 01:33:30,820
And so that intermittent element just makes sense to me.

1481
01:33:30,820 --> 01:33:36,540
And there's days intuitively where I'm ravished when I wake up and days where I'll do a full

1482
01:33:36,540 --> 01:33:39,980
jujitsu session, not even eat till 12 or one in the afternoon.

1483
01:33:39,980 --> 01:33:42,860
And it's very, you know, very intuitive listening to my body.

1484
01:33:42,860 --> 01:33:49,040
But I think getting off that rigidity of so many nutrition plans and just allowing yourself

1485
01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:55,460
to have variability, I think just that concept alone is a powerful one.

1486
01:33:55,460 --> 01:33:58,380
Yeah, I completely agree.

1487
01:33:58,380 --> 01:34:02,220
And you know, like you said, the feast and famine of our ancestors.

1488
01:34:02,220 --> 01:34:06,840
And you know, it's interesting because we always go back to Paleolithic man or caveman.

1489
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:14,180
But again, my 92, three year old aunt, I asked her about this, what was your day like?

1490
01:34:14,180 --> 01:34:15,180
Right.

1491
01:34:15,180 --> 01:34:18,860
Well, we got up in the morning and we worked milked of cows.

1492
01:34:18,860 --> 01:34:20,340
We collected the eggs.

1493
01:34:20,340 --> 01:34:22,660
Then we would come in the house and we would eat.

1494
01:34:22,660 --> 01:34:24,140
But we made our own bread.

1495
01:34:24,140 --> 01:34:25,940
In the winters, we had a greenhouse.

1496
01:34:25,940 --> 01:34:28,300
So we had our we were growing vegetables.

1497
01:34:28,300 --> 01:34:29,500
And then we went back to work.

1498
01:34:29,500 --> 01:34:30,500
Right.

1499
01:34:30,500 --> 01:34:31,740
They didn't snack all day.

1500
01:34:31,740 --> 01:34:34,820
And then sometimes they wouldn't eat until dinner again.

1501
01:34:34,820 --> 01:34:38,580
But then she's like, then it would get dark early and we, you know, there was not a lot

1502
01:34:38,580 --> 01:34:40,540
of electricity and lights.

1503
01:34:40,540 --> 01:34:43,940
And so we would go to bed and start the whole cycle over again.

1504
01:34:43,940 --> 01:34:49,740
And so they were intermittent fasting, which if you look back at our grandparents, no one

1505
01:34:49,740 --> 01:34:51,860
in that era was overweight.

1506
01:34:51,860 --> 01:34:57,660
Even into the 70s, no one was overweight for probably other reasons.

1507
01:34:57,660 --> 01:35:04,820
But nonetheless, I think that, yeah, I mean, there's a lot that can be beneficial.

1508
01:35:04,820 --> 01:35:05,820
Right.

1509
01:35:05,820 --> 01:35:06,820
Again, there's food everywhere.

1510
01:35:06,820 --> 01:35:08,380
The refrigerator is right there.

1511
01:35:08,380 --> 01:35:09,380
There's snacks.

1512
01:35:09,380 --> 01:35:14,260
I hate it that, you know, my daughter was brought up with like, I have a snack, got

1513
01:35:14,260 --> 01:35:15,260
to bring a snack.

1514
01:35:15,260 --> 01:35:16,300
Did you bring snacks?

1515
01:35:16,300 --> 01:35:18,540
I don't ever remember having snacks.

1516
01:35:18,540 --> 01:35:20,860
Now I probably have forgotten more than I remember.

1517
01:35:20,860 --> 01:35:23,300
So I'll attribute it to that.

1518
01:35:23,300 --> 01:35:27,140
But nonetheless, the other thing I tell people to do, too, if they're going to intermittent

1519
01:35:27,140 --> 01:35:29,740
fast is like fast between meals.

1520
01:35:29,740 --> 01:35:30,780
Right.

1521
01:35:30,780 --> 01:35:34,980
Have your breakfast, have your lunch, but don't eat everything in between or anything

1522
01:35:34,980 --> 01:35:37,660
in between, because that can be beneficial.

1523
01:35:37,660 --> 01:35:43,460
It's all about the glucose and glucagon, you know, balancing itself out.

1524
01:35:43,460 --> 01:35:52,020
And if there's not a lot of insulin, the glucagon kicks up and starts pulling, you know, sugar

1525
01:35:52,020 --> 01:35:55,980
out of the liver to burn out of the fat, mobilizing things.

1526
01:35:55,980 --> 01:36:00,980
And so if there's no reason for the body to do that, it's not going to do it.

1527
01:36:00,980 --> 01:36:03,920
And insulin is a storage molecule.

1528
01:36:03,920 --> 01:36:10,620
So it's going to keep shoving things in there into the fat cells, into the liver, into the

1529
01:36:10,620 --> 01:36:15,540
abdomen, and the bathtub is going to fill up and start overflowing.

1530
01:36:15,540 --> 01:36:21,660
So yeah, fasting, intermittent fasting, a lot to do there.

1531
01:36:21,660 --> 01:36:28,100
Now I think there's a lot of upside if you can do it with two things, water only fasting,

1532
01:36:28,100 --> 01:36:30,020
which most people can't do.

1533
01:36:30,020 --> 01:36:34,380
But that's when you start to see autophagy, where the body's starting to clean up old

1534
01:36:34,380 --> 01:36:37,700
cells, weak cells, senescent cells.

1535
01:36:37,700 --> 01:36:40,220
But that comes at day three.

1536
01:36:40,220 --> 01:36:42,940
That's not in a 12 hour intermittent fast.

1537
01:36:42,940 --> 01:36:49,780
I totally disagree with all the bloggers and the blingers and the bullshitters out there

1538
01:36:49,780 --> 01:36:55,500
that are saying, oh, I'm getting into an intermittent, I'm in autophagy after 12 hours of fasting.

1539
01:36:55,500 --> 01:36:56,500
No, you're not.

1540
01:36:56,500 --> 01:37:01,300
The liver can store a ton of glycogen and so can the muscles.

1541
01:37:01,300 --> 01:37:06,300
And I track all that when I do intermittent, when I do five day fasts.

1542
01:37:06,300 --> 01:37:11,900
And even on the fifth day, if I'm on the bike working out and I take my blood glucose, there's

1543
01:37:11,900 --> 01:37:18,860
still a squeeze of glycogen out of those muscles because I'll see my sugar levels go up over

1544
01:37:18,860 --> 01:37:19,860
100.

1545
01:37:19,860 --> 01:37:20,860
Right.

1546
01:37:20,860 --> 01:37:23,500
So it's still got some to squeeze out of there.

1547
01:37:23,500 --> 01:37:28,500
The other side of that, if water fasting is not your cup of tea, and it's not, it's not

1548
01:37:28,500 --> 01:37:34,020
easy, it's hard, but it's also a good mental game too.

1549
01:37:34,020 --> 01:37:35,140
What can I put up with?

1550
01:37:35,140 --> 01:37:36,140
What can I tolerate?

1551
01:37:36,140 --> 01:37:38,180
How do I get through this?

1552
01:37:38,180 --> 01:37:47,620
Is the fasting mimicking diet developed by Walter Longo at USC, where you can actually

1553
01:37:47,620 --> 01:37:52,380
eat food, it's plant-based, and your body thinks it's fasting.

1554
01:37:52,380 --> 01:37:59,700
And it's largely a keto type diet, low carbs, super low protein, because we know protein

1555
01:37:59,700 --> 01:38:05,920
turns on that mTOR pathway and carbohydrates, specifically sugars.

1556
01:38:05,920 --> 01:38:10,220
And so if you reduce that and they know what the right number is to reduce it, you can

1557
01:38:10,220 --> 01:38:19,500
eat for five days and your body thinks it's fasting, goes into ketosis, autophagy happens.

1558
01:38:19,500 --> 01:38:24,540
At the end of that, four or five days, six days when you start refeeding it, the body

1559
01:38:24,540 --> 01:38:32,140
knows it just cleaned up a bunch of crap and upregulates hemopoietic stem cells to go repair

1560
01:38:32,140 --> 01:38:33,600
and rebuild.

1561
01:38:33,600 --> 01:38:38,940
So longer fasts, if you can do it, there's a lot of benefit that can come from those

1562
01:38:38,940 --> 01:38:40,260
as well.

1563
01:38:40,260 --> 01:38:46,980
I know when I simply switched to a plant-based diet, not vegan, not vegetarian, but plant-based

1564
01:38:46,980 --> 01:38:49,180
specifically, so a lot of whole foods.

1565
01:38:49,180 --> 01:38:53,860
It wasn't, again, with the understanding of trying to mimic fasting.

1566
01:38:53,860 --> 01:38:59,400
However, I had blood work done at the fire department when I was there, the annual physical,

1567
01:38:59,400 --> 01:39:03,820
and the physician literally said to me, can you tell me how you eat?

1568
01:39:03,820 --> 01:39:06,540
I've never seen blood work this good before.

1569
01:39:06,540 --> 01:39:10,820
It's not as good now, but that was what was interesting, is there was obviously a full-on

1570
01:39:10,820 --> 01:39:13,420
cleanse going on there as well.

1571
01:39:13,420 --> 01:39:17,540
Most of what I was eating was just leafy greens and there was filling.

1572
01:39:17,540 --> 01:39:23,260
This is the thing, I didn't have to feel like I was fasting, but removing not only meats

1573
01:39:23,260 --> 01:39:27,660
at that time, but obviously more likely the processed carbohydrates was the big common

1574
01:39:27,660 --> 01:39:32,500
denominator with these diets that swear up and down that theirs is the only one that

1575
01:39:32,500 --> 01:39:36,260
works, whereas the middle ground is they're all removing processed shit.

1576
01:39:36,260 --> 01:39:38,500
Right, exactly.

1577
01:39:38,500 --> 01:39:39,500
So do you eat meat now?

1578
01:39:39,500 --> 01:39:40,500
Yes, yeah.

1579
01:39:40,500 --> 01:39:46,060
For me personally, it was incredible, but I did hit a point where I felt like my strength

1580
01:39:46,060 --> 01:39:47,460
was diminishing.

1581
01:39:47,460 --> 01:39:53,820
And again, back to evolutionary thinking, when it came to, well, you just need to supplement

1582
01:39:53,820 --> 01:39:56,780
with this, this, this, and this, I'm like, well, I shouldn't have to supplement if it's

1583
01:39:56,780 --> 01:39:58,540
a diet that I naturally have.

1584
01:39:58,540 --> 01:40:00,740
So that was kind of what took me in.

1585
01:40:00,740 --> 01:40:06,020
But the way I look at it, I try when I'm eating well to have a plant-based diet.

1586
01:40:06,020 --> 01:40:11,220
Meat, which sounds ridiculous, but the focus being on the greens and the vegetables on

1587
01:40:11,220 --> 01:40:16,220
your plate, and then you add some protein versus the kind of yellow brown plate that

1588
01:40:16,220 --> 01:40:21,460
we only have in America where it's carbs, meat, and there might be like two green beans

1589
01:40:21,460 --> 01:40:23,060
on the side.

1590
01:40:23,060 --> 01:40:24,540
Exactly.

1591
01:40:24,540 --> 01:40:26,420
You're eating the garnish for greens.

1592
01:40:26,420 --> 01:40:27,420
Yes, exactly.

1593
01:40:27,420 --> 01:40:33,300
You know, it's interesting because prior to about maybe nine months ago, I was very plant

1594
01:40:33,300 --> 01:40:36,420
heavy and low protein.

1595
01:40:36,420 --> 01:40:41,260
I just wasn't paying attention and fasting too much because I was 50 pounds heavier with

1596
01:40:41,260 --> 01:40:47,300
fatty liver disease and reversed all that through fasting.

1597
01:40:47,300 --> 01:40:50,600
And I was like, so I was like, I studied it, I learned it.

1598
01:40:50,600 --> 01:40:55,300
But here's what happened is with that diet for me and everybody's different.

1599
01:40:55,300 --> 01:40:58,460
I'm in the gym and I'm not putting on any muscle.

1600
01:40:58,460 --> 01:41:02,820
I looked scrawny and I was like telling my wife, I'm like, what the hell is going on

1601
01:41:02,820 --> 01:41:03,820
here?

1602
01:41:03,820 --> 01:41:08,340
And so I started looking at my protein levels and I was getting like 35 grams a day.

1603
01:41:08,340 --> 01:41:09,340
That was not enough.

1604
01:41:09,340 --> 01:41:12,140
Two eggs is 14 grams.

1605
01:41:12,140 --> 01:41:14,820
That can be your breakfast, but you better eat something else.

1606
01:41:14,820 --> 01:41:23,680
And I up the protein to like 130 grams and then boom, 10 pounds and muscle.

1607
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:27,240
So you just got to find what works for you.

1608
01:41:27,240 --> 01:41:32,380
And I always say that to people, but eat as close to the earth and nature as you possibly

1609
01:41:32,380 --> 01:41:35,980
can and leave that process stuff on the shelves.

1610
01:41:35,980 --> 01:41:38,740
Don't even bring it in your house and everybody's different.

1611
01:41:38,740 --> 01:41:41,300
And so, you know, I've gone plant based before.

1612
01:41:41,300 --> 01:41:42,300
Doesn't work for me.

1613
01:41:42,300 --> 01:41:45,220
Nothing changed.

1614
01:41:45,220 --> 01:41:51,900
And so you just got to find your balance and listen to your body and, you know, hopefully

1615
01:41:51,900 --> 01:41:54,140
you stick with something long enough to see some improvement.

1616
01:41:54,140 --> 01:41:55,140
Yeah.

1617
01:41:55,140 --> 01:41:56,380
Well, I think that's it.

1618
01:41:56,380 --> 01:41:57,380
Find what works for you.

1619
01:41:57,380 --> 01:41:59,740
And there's, you know, talk about the mental health side as well.

1620
01:41:59,740 --> 01:42:04,300
I mean, the toolbox is much bigger than people realize to say you've got pain, you've got

1621
01:42:04,300 --> 01:42:08,300
foundation training, you've got Regenexx, you've got CBD, you've got all these things

1622
01:42:08,300 --> 01:42:12,220
that 20 years ago you asked someone, they wouldn't have even discussed that.

1623
01:42:12,220 --> 01:42:13,580
Some of it wasn't even developed.

1624
01:42:13,580 --> 01:42:18,380
So this is what exciting now is you can find, you can make your own cocktail of what works

1625
01:42:18,380 --> 01:42:19,380
for you.

1626
01:42:19,380 --> 01:42:23,820
And if, you know, your neighbor swears up and down that plant based eternal ketosis

1627
01:42:23,820 --> 01:42:29,180
is the way to go, beautiful, you know, but as I point out, you take an Aboriginal man

1628
01:42:29,180 --> 01:42:33,260
from Australia who lives in the bush and you take an Inuit, are they going to have the

1629
01:42:33,260 --> 01:42:34,260
same diet?

1630
01:42:34,260 --> 01:42:35,260
No.

1631
01:42:35,260 --> 01:42:40,460
So, you know, understand that we're all this beautiful tapestry of, you know, generations

1632
01:42:40,460 --> 01:42:41,460
and generations.

1633
01:42:41,460 --> 01:42:46,220
So we're going to have a unique fit based on who we are and what we're made of.

1634
01:42:46,220 --> 01:42:49,280
And I think you got to find something you can stick with, right?

1635
01:42:49,280 --> 01:42:53,580
Like you said, you know, you can do ketosis, but how long can you stay on that sort of

1636
01:42:53,580 --> 01:42:54,580
thing?

1637
01:42:54,580 --> 01:42:57,220
And again, I've taken care of the 99%.

1638
01:42:57,220 --> 01:43:00,780
I'm not the guy who, you know, my sister's like, why don't you treat the Broncos?

1639
01:43:00,780 --> 01:43:02,420
I'm like, I don't want to treat those guys.

1640
01:43:02,420 --> 01:43:03,420
It's my thing.

1641
01:43:03,420 --> 01:43:05,700
I want to just take care of normal, regular, everyday people.

1642
01:43:05,700 --> 01:43:10,860
I feel honored to do that and that they trust me to stick needles in them as a stranger.

1643
01:43:10,860 --> 01:43:15,900
So the point is, you know, not everyone's going to do an ice bath.

1644
01:43:15,900 --> 01:43:16,900
Even my friends who do them.

1645
01:43:16,900 --> 01:43:18,940
I'm like, how long are you going to stick with that?

1646
01:43:18,940 --> 01:43:20,400
Like, right?

1647
01:43:20,400 --> 01:43:22,460
That's not sustainable for most people.

1648
01:43:22,460 --> 01:43:28,020
I want people to do things that they can do for the long haul that are sustainable, that

1649
01:43:28,020 --> 01:43:30,780
are pretty easy within their grasp.

1650
01:43:30,780 --> 01:43:33,020
They don't have to go out and buy special stuff.

1651
01:43:33,020 --> 01:43:37,100
They don't have to go get whey protein every two weeks because they're, you know what I

1652
01:43:37,100 --> 01:43:38,100
mean?

1653
01:43:38,100 --> 01:43:40,920
I'm all about the, you know, the common man.

1654
01:43:40,920 --> 01:43:41,920
What can you do?

1655
01:43:41,920 --> 01:43:42,920
What's simple?

1656
01:43:42,920 --> 01:43:43,920
What's sustainable?

1657
01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:45,380
What can you do for a long time?

1658
01:43:45,380 --> 01:43:46,740
What's easy?

1659
01:43:46,740 --> 01:43:51,620
Not, you know, what's the fad of the month kind of thing.

1660
01:43:51,620 --> 01:43:52,620
Absolutely.

1661
01:43:52,620 --> 01:43:57,220
Well, you mentioned Dr. Matthew Walker's Why We Sleep.

1662
01:43:57,220 --> 01:44:00,500
Are there any other books that you love to recommend?

1663
01:44:00,500 --> 01:44:04,940
It can be related to today's discussion or completely unrelated.

1664
01:44:04,940 --> 01:44:06,860
You know, I'm a big Peter Atiyafan.

1665
01:44:06,860 --> 01:44:08,080
I like Peter.

1666
01:44:08,080 --> 01:44:09,300
He's not a hyper.

1667
01:44:09,300 --> 01:44:10,360
He's a physician.

1668
01:44:10,360 --> 01:44:11,420
He's a scientist.

1669
01:44:11,420 --> 01:44:12,420
He's an engineer.

1670
01:44:12,420 --> 01:44:13,860
He's a mathematician.

1671
01:44:13,860 --> 01:44:15,040
He thinks differently.

1672
01:44:15,040 --> 01:44:16,960
He takes care of human beings.

1673
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:18,660
His book Outlive.

1674
01:44:18,660 --> 01:44:20,100
I like, I like it.

1675
01:44:20,100 --> 01:44:21,100
I recommend it.

1676
01:44:21,100 --> 01:44:23,100
I just sent one out yesterday.

1677
01:44:23,100 --> 01:44:28,500
I give that book to a lot of people because it makes the most sense to me.

1678
01:44:28,500 --> 01:44:31,380
Again, back to sustainability.

1679
01:44:31,380 --> 01:44:33,260
Managing blood glucose, right?

1680
01:44:33,260 --> 01:44:35,140
That's so important.

1681
01:44:35,140 --> 01:44:36,380
Having strength.

1682
01:44:36,380 --> 01:44:46,020
Our muscles are resilient metabolic tissues in our body at controlling blood glucose.

1683
01:44:46,020 --> 01:44:50,060
You know, cancer is, get the screenings, right?

1684
01:44:50,060 --> 01:44:51,840
Blood smoke.

1685
01:44:51,840 --> 01:44:55,340
What kills more people in America than anything?

1686
01:44:55,340 --> 01:44:56,420
Cardiovascular disease.

1687
01:44:56,420 --> 01:44:58,900
So how do you control that?

1688
01:44:58,900 --> 01:45:04,760
Some diet, like you, they'll, diet people will fight endlessly.

1689
01:45:04,760 --> 01:45:06,940
So I'm not going to get in the middle of that.

1690
01:45:06,940 --> 01:45:07,940
Yeah.

1691
01:45:07,940 --> 01:45:09,900
Plant-based can help.

1692
01:45:09,900 --> 01:45:13,900
The American College of Lifestyle Medicine, they show you the one image of the coronary

1693
01:45:13,900 --> 01:45:16,060
artery that's been reversed.

1694
01:45:16,060 --> 01:45:19,940
Show me a hundred thousand of those.

1695
01:45:19,940 --> 01:45:23,500
So I don't want to get in the middle of diet, but I think that's important.

1696
01:45:23,500 --> 01:45:25,700
But I think managing cardiovascular disease.

1697
01:45:25,700 --> 01:45:29,740
So the things he talks about and then neurodegeneration, right?

1698
01:45:29,740 --> 01:45:32,860
Those are the four pillars that he talks a lot about.

1699
01:45:32,860 --> 01:45:35,580
And how do you keep your brain healthy as we age?

1700
01:45:35,580 --> 01:45:39,560
Well, that's a lot of glucose related stuff too, right?

1701
01:45:39,560 --> 01:45:44,600
That goes on in the brain that causes and leads to dementias of some sort.

1702
01:45:44,600 --> 01:45:48,540
So that's another one of the books that I recommend a lot.

1703
01:45:48,540 --> 01:45:54,700
And then Influence Is Your Superpower.

1704
01:45:54,700 --> 01:45:58,140
I love that book by Zoe Chance.

1705
01:45:58,140 --> 01:46:03,260
I'm looking at it because that's the second number book I give to people as well.

1706
01:46:03,260 --> 01:46:11,980
She's a Yale professor who's done a lot of work with like Google, all the tech companies.

1707
01:46:11,980 --> 01:46:17,600
And she's a behavioral economist and she's science-based and it's such a good book on

1708
01:46:17,600 --> 01:46:24,740
and I give it to people who like you, James, are influencing through your podcast.

1709
01:46:24,740 --> 01:46:32,820
And it's not manipulation, but there's a lot of great lessons in there on how to help you

1710
01:46:32,820 --> 01:46:36,840
get what you want, but how to be a good influence on other people.

1711
01:46:36,840 --> 01:46:41,620
So those are the two books I've given away a ton of last year and already this year.

1712
01:46:41,620 --> 01:46:42,620
Brilliant.

1713
01:46:42,620 --> 01:46:43,620
Yeah.

1714
01:46:43,620 --> 01:46:45,980
Well, I need to work on trying to get Dr. O'Tee on the show and I've never heard of

1715
01:46:45,980 --> 01:46:46,980
Influence Is Your Superpower.

1716
01:46:46,980 --> 01:46:49,340
So I'm going to have to get that for myself as well.

1717
01:46:49,340 --> 01:46:51,420
So I appreciate that.

1718
01:46:51,420 --> 01:46:52,580
Let me send that to you.

1719
01:46:52,580 --> 01:46:53,580
Oh, well, thank you.

1720
01:46:53,580 --> 01:46:54,580
I'll send you.

1721
01:46:54,580 --> 01:47:00,100
I mean, it may be a poor exchange, but I wrote a book and I know you do a lot of work with

1722
01:47:00,100 --> 01:47:01,100
firefighters.

1723
01:47:01,100 --> 01:47:03,020
So I wrote a book about three years ago.

1724
01:47:03,020 --> 01:47:05,180
So I will send you that in return.

1725
01:47:05,180 --> 01:47:06,180
Wonderful.

1726
01:47:06,180 --> 01:47:07,180
All right.

1727
01:47:07,180 --> 01:47:10,300
Well, then the same question, but what about movies and documentaries?

1728
01:47:10,300 --> 01:47:16,020
Any of those that you love?

1729
01:47:16,020 --> 01:47:17,340
Movies.

1730
01:47:17,340 --> 01:47:23,740
You know, sometimes with an 11 year old, I'm watching kid movies.

1731
01:47:23,740 --> 01:47:25,540
There's some great kid movies out there.

1732
01:47:25,540 --> 01:47:26,940
The double meaning of a lot of them.

1733
01:47:26,940 --> 01:47:31,500
I mean, Up, for example, I sobbed my way through that damn movie several times.

1734
01:47:31,500 --> 01:47:32,500
Which one?

1735
01:47:32,500 --> 01:47:33,500
Up.

1736
01:47:33,500 --> 01:47:34,500
Have you ever seen that one?

1737
01:47:34,500 --> 01:47:35,500
Yeah.

1738
01:47:35,500 --> 01:47:36,500
Yeah.

1739
01:47:36,500 --> 01:47:37,500
Right.

1740
01:47:37,500 --> 01:47:38,500
Yeah.

1741
01:47:38,500 --> 01:47:39,500
Horrendous.

1742
01:47:39,500 --> 01:47:40,500
You know, it's funny.

1743
01:47:40,500 --> 01:47:43,180
I always say this and it's not a good one, but Goodfellas, that could have easily been

1744
01:47:43,180 --> 01:47:48,020
my life as a kid because, you know, I grew up around a bunch of Italians, mostly the

1745
01:47:48,020 --> 01:47:49,020
men.

1746
01:47:49,020 --> 01:47:50,860
Hey, go park my car.

1747
01:47:50,860 --> 01:47:53,500
Hey, go drop this off over here.

1748
01:47:53,500 --> 01:47:56,180
And thankfully, my family wasn't into that sort of thing.

1749
01:47:56,180 --> 01:47:57,660
But I love that movie.

1750
01:47:57,660 --> 01:47:58,660
I'm Italian.

1751
01:47:58,660 --> 01:48:00,180
I mean, I love all the Godfathers.

1752
01:48:00,180 --> 01:48:03,220
It took me a while to like number three.

1753
01:48:03,220 --> 01:48:08,500
My wife and I just watched the it's I think a 2012 The Great Gatsby.

1754
01:48:08,500 --> 01:48:09,780
I didn't know that story.

1755
01:48:09,780 --> 01:48:11,980
I thought that was such a really good movie.

1756
01:48:11,980 --> 01:48:18,820
And the way F. Scott Fitzgerald wrote it, it was it was brilliant how it was written.

1757
01:48:18,820 --> 01:48:21,020
So let's see documentaries.

1758
01:48:21,020 --> 01:48:25,020
I've been enjoying the Arnold Schwarzenegger documentary.

1759
01:48:25,020 --> 01:48:26,300
Always been a big Arnold fan.

1760
01:48:26,300 --> 01:48:30,100
I mean, again, it started in ninth grade when I started working out.

1761
01:48:30,100 --> 01:48:31,100
Right.

1762
01:48:31,100 --> 01:48:34,180
His movie Pumping Iron.

1763
01:48:34,180 --> 01:48:36,860
And you know, you can say a lot of things about Arnold.

1764
01:48:36,860 --> 01:48:38,140
I like Arnold.

1765
01:48:38,140 --> 01:48:40,260
He's done an amazing.

1766
01:48:40,260 --> 01:48:41,900
He's had an amazing career.

1767
01:48:41,900 --> 01:48:45,340
He's done amazing things and he's really self-made.

1768
01:48:45,340 --> 01:48:48,020
And so his documentary, I thought, was really well done.

1769
01:48:48,020 --> 01:48:51,500
And I like following, you know, people like him.

1770
01:48:51,500 --> 01:48:53,980
How do you do this sort of thing?

1771
01:48:53,980 --> 01:48:56,860
I read Elon Musk's book last year.

1772
01:48:56,860 --> 01:48:59,100
Also curious, like what makes this guy tick?

1773
01:48:59,100 --> 01:49:03,200
And it might have been a little, you know, curated.

1774
01:49:03,200 --> 01:49:06,300
But he's an interesting person as well.

1775
01:49:06,300 --> 01:49:09,540
And you know, I just like to see what makes people tick.

1776
01:49:09,540 --> 01:49:15,100
Well, speaking of interesting people, is there a person you'd recommend to come on this podcast

1777
01:49:15,100 --> 01:49:19,540
as a guest to speak to the first responders, military and associated professions of the

1778
01:49:19,540 --> 01:49:20,540
world?

1779
01:49:20,540 --> 01:49:29,220
Yeah, you know, I met Chuck DeSmith, Rent and Fire last year.

1780
01:49:29,220 --> 01:49:30,980
And Chuck's an amazing human being.

1781
01:49:30,980 --> 01:49:37,700
I think you guys will click a lot, but he's really brought a lot of.

1782
01:49:37,700 --> 01:49:42,860
As you have as well, but a lot of the mental health stuff to the forefront.

1783
01:49:42,860 --> 01:49:49,660
And so I think there's something very powerful and he's just getting ready to retire.

1784
01:49:49,660 --> 01:49:57,100
But all his years of experience, to your point, recruiting, he understands some of those problems,

1785
01:49:57,100 --> 01:49:59,840
like you mentioned, the 56 hour week.

1786
01:49:59,840 --> 01:50:05,060
He talks a lot about how the younger firefighters are looking for solutions like we talked about

1787
01:50:05,060 --> 01:50:07,500
intermittent fasting, Regenexx.

1788
01:50:07,500 --> 01:50:09,340
They're aware they're changing it, right?

1789
01:50:09,340 --> 01:50:10,740
They're shaking it up.

1790
01:50:10,740 --> 01:50:11,840
Why is it done like this?

1791
01:50:11,840 --> 01:50:13,440
How can we do it better?

1792
01:50:13,440 --> 01:50:20,100
So Chuck is a great person, a physician psychiatrist, Owen Muir.

1793
01:50:20,100 --> 01:50:27,740
Owen is a psychiatrist who spent a lot of time researching transcranial magnetic stimulation

1794
01:50:27,740 --> 01:50:28,980
for.

1795
01:50:28,980 --> 01:50:29,980
Are you familiar with?

1796
01:50:29,980 --> 01:50:30,980
Yeah, TMS.

1797
01:50:30,980 --> 01:50:31,980
Yeah.

1798
01:50:31,980 --> 01:50:32,980
Yeah.

1799
01:50:32,980 --> 01:50:34,540
I think that's really powerful.

1800
01:50:34,540 --> 01:50:41,900
Again, also we see this, we do some of this, but it's not our forte, but the stellate ganglion

1801
01:50:41,900 --> 01:50:42,900
block.

1802
01:50:42,900 --> 01:50:43,900
Are you familiar with that?

1803
01:50:43,900 --> 01:50:46,460
I've had guests on talking about that too, which again, perfect example.

1804
01:50:46,460 --> 01:50:53,580
I know people that it was game changing for and people that it didn't work for.

1805
01:50:53,580 --> 01:50:58,700
So I think some of those people are powerful.

1806
01:50:58,700 --> 01:51:06,500
Matt Chan is a firefighter here, a friend of mine, who he's an athlete.

1807
01:51:06,500 --> 01:51:07,500
He's a beast.

1808
01:51:07,500 --> 01:51:10,980
In fact, Doug videotaped him and his testimony.

1809
01:51:10,980 --> 01:51:16,100
You can probably find that on the Regenexx website, but Matt is a great athlete.

1810
01:51:16,100 --> 01:51:17,100
He's a great human.

1811
01:51:17,100 --> 01:51:18,740
He's a great firefighter.

1812
01:51:18,740 --> 01:51:24,420
He was like number two in the world in CrossFit when he was at his peak.

1813
01:51:24,420 --> 01:51:29,660
He's a super nice guy and very knowledgeable about fitness and he walks the talk.

1814
01:51:29,660 --> 01:51:35,460
He's had a CrossFit gym and now he's got a really successful app working with athletes

1815
01:51:35,460 --> 01:51:39,940
and first responders and staying fit and like that.

1816
01:51:39,940 --> 01:51:42,740
So those are a few names right off the top.

1817
01:51:42,740 --> 01:51:43,740
Brilliant.

1818
01:51:43,740 --> 01:51:45,580
Well, the first two I don't know, and I'll definitely look into them.

1819
01:51:45,580 --> 01:51:47,700
The last one, Matt, he's been on twice now.

1820
01:51:47,700 --> 01:51:53,340
So yeah, the way that his fitness even saved his life with that mountain biking accident

1821
01:51:53,340 --> 01:51:55,860
is a story in itself.

1822
01:51:55,860 --> 01:52:01,580
Right and he's not shy, but we keep him going as well, pumping him with his own cells.

1823
01:52:01,580 --> 01:52:02,580
Good.

1824
01:52:02,580 --> 01:52:03,580
Good, good.

1825
01:52:03,580 --> 01:52:04,580
It's good to hear.

1826
01:52:04,580 --> 01:52:05,580
Yeah.

1827
01:52:05,580 --> 01:52:08,020
Well, I want to get to where people can find that, but one last question before we do.

1828
01:52:08,020 --> 01:52:11,660
What do you do to decompress?

1829
01:52:11,660 --> 01:52:18,500
You know, I've meditated for almost 40 years.

1830
01:52:18,500 --> 01:52:21,340
That's my daily thing.

1831
01:52:21,340 --> 01:52:24,860
I'm not, you know, I'm not like ballistic with it.

1832
01:52:24,860 --> 01:52:30,060
And if I miss days, I don't beat myself up about it because I try to live it and not

1833
01:52:30,060 --> 01:52:34,120
have to do it to get the results.

1834
01:52:34,120 --> 01:52:35,120
So I do that.

1835
01:52:35,120 --> 01:52:36,260
I do a lot of journaling.

1836
01:52:36,260 --> 01:52:37,260
I have a journal.

1837
01:52:37,260 --> 01:52:41,580
In fact, I don't know if you can see them, but all those brown journals there.

1838
01:52:41,580 --> 01:52:46,940
I mean, I got journals that go back 20 years and when I'm pissed off or when I'm upset

1839
01:52:46,940 --> 01:52:53,340
or when I'm whatever, I go to the journal and I get it out of me.

1840
01:52:53,340 --> 01:52:54,340
And so I do that.

1841
01:52:54,340 --> 01:53:01,380
I have a great relationship with my wife who has trained tantra, sex, love and relationship

1842
01:53:01,380 --> 01:53:02,380
coach.

1843
01:53:02,380 --> 01:53:04,320
That's somebody else you should have on your podcast.

1844
01:53:04,320 --> 01:53:10,580
She's got a podcast with about 300 episodes, but she talks about trauma.

1845
01:53:10,580 --> 01:53:17,600
She's trauma certified, trained, somatic, experiencing, trauma certified.

1846
01:53:17,600 --> 01:53:21,660
And so we have a great relationship where we can talk about a lot of things that and

1847
01:53:21,660 --> 01:53:29,160
I always tell her, I mean, I call it, I don't know whether to call it the armor that I wear

1848
01:53:29,160 --> 01:53:30,540
or the shield.

1849
01:53:30,540 --> 01:53:33,220
And I think it's both sometimes that I have up.

1850
01:53:33,220 --> 01:53:37,300
But we were laying in bed last night just talking while our daughter was bathing.

1851
01:53:37,300 --> 01:53:44,180
I was like, I feel like I can let all of that down with you and be super vulnerable.

1852
01:53:44,180 --> 01:53:49,820
So when we can slow down enough, that's another great way where we just have just where we

1853
01:53:49,820 --> 01:53:50,820
can just talk.

1854
01:53:50,820 --> 01:53:55,120
So I try to keep it again, real at hand.

1855
01:53:55,120 --> 01:53:57,180
I don't drink anymore.

1856
01:53:57,180 --> 01:54:01,680
And the other big outlet for me, which I'm going to go do right after this is working

1857
01:54:01,680 --> 01:54:02,680
out.

1858
01:54:02,680 --> 01:54:06,960
That's, that's, I love to, I'm going to get on the bike and today's a push pull day.

1859
01:54:06,960 --> 01:54:12,260
So the girls, I'm going to do some of that.

1860
01:54:12,260 --> 01:54:15,940
I do more, you know, like you probably, you know, functional movements.

1861
01:54:15,940 --> 01:54:20,740
I don't do isolation, but you know, some of it comes there.

1862
01:54:20,740 --> 01:54:21,740
Brilliant.

1863
01:54:21,740 --> 01:54:26,500
Well, for people listening then where are the best places to find Regenexx and then

1864
01:54:26,500 --> 01:54:29,420
also what about yourself personally?

1865
01:54:29,420 --> 01:54:30,900
Yeah.

1866
01:54:30,900 --> 01:54:37,260
The best place is Regenexx.com, R-E-G-E-N-E-X-X.

1867
01:54:37,260 --> 01:54:41,340
That's where you can find out a lot of stuff.

1868
01:54:41,340 --> 01:54:47,260
The only social media I have is LinkedIn and you'll find it just like this, Mark Testa,

1869
01:54:47,260 --> 01:54:49,780
DC, MHA.

1870
01:54:49,780 --> 01:54:51,700
I put a lot of content out there.

1871
01:54:51,700 --> 01:54:54,220
I talk about a lot of stuff.

1872
01:54:54,220 --> 01:54:58,060
I talk about, you know, a lot of the stuff we talk about.

1873
01:54:58,060 --> 01:55:03,260
And then I talk a lot about reducing healthcare costs and I talk about what we do at Regenexx

1874
01:55:03,260 --> 01:55:05,460
and how to get through injuries.

1875
01:55:05,460 --> 01:55:13,240
And so I use that platform to educate, you know, insurance brokers, employers, friends,

1876
01:55:13,240 --> 01:55:14,240
people like that.

1877
01:55:14,240 --> 01:55:15,240
Beautiful.

1878
01:55:15,240 --> 01:55:16,940
Well, Mark, I want to say thank you.

1879
01:55:16,940 --> 01:55:18,740
It's been an amazing conversation.

1880
01:55:18,740 --> 01:55:24,940
We've gone all over the place from chakras and chi through to intermittent fasting, but

1881
01:55:24,940 --> 01:55:28,100
it's very exciting, you know, the things that you're bringing to the table.

1882
01:55:28,100 --> 01:55:32,540
I mean, this is the whole point of the podcast is to first obviously highlight problems.

1883
01:55:32,540 --> 01:55:37,180
It's important that we drag them into the light, but then to bring in solutions as well.

1884
01:55:37,180 --> 01:55:39,140
Otherwise, you know, what's the point of the conversation?

1885
01:55:39,140 --> 01:55:44,780
So it's really exciting to hear that even though, as you mentioned, there are certain

1886
01:55:44,780 --> 01:55:50,060
things that we hear about overseas when it comes to stem cells that the bone marrow concentrate

1887
01:55:50,060 --> 01:55:54,500
is actually available and you're finding a lot of success with the civilian population,

1888
01:55:54,500 --> 01:55:57,000
but also with a lot of the professions that are listening.

1889
01:55:57,000 --> 01:56:00,100
So I want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time and coming on the

1890
01:56:00,100 --> 01:56:01,100
show today.

1891
01:56:01,100 --> 01:56:02,100
Yeah.

1892
01:56:02,100 --> 01:56:03,100
Thank you very much, James.

1893
01:56:03,100 --> 01:56:04,100
It's been a great conversation.

1894
01:56:04,100 --> 01:56:05,100
You're a great interviewer and I love what we talked about.

1895
01:56:05,100 --> 01:56:25,100
So thank you very much.