I'm extremely excited to announce a brand new sponsor for the Behind the Shield podcast
that is Transcend.
Now for many of you listening, you are probably working the same brutal shifts that I did
for 14 years.
Suffering from sleep deprivation, body composition challenges, mental health challenges, libido,
hair loss, etc.
Now when it comes to the world of hormone replacement and peptide therapy, what I have
seen is a shift from doctors telling us that we were within normal limits, which was definitely
incorrect all the way to the other way now where men's clinics are popping up left, right
and center.
So I myself wanted to find a reputable company that would do an analysis of my physiology
and then offer supplementations without ramming, for example, hormone replacement therapy down
my throat.
Now I came across Transcend because they have an altruistic arm and they were a big reason
why the 7X project I was a part of was able to proceed because of their generous donations.
They also have the Transcend foundations where they are actually putting military and first
responders through some of their therapies at no cost to the individual.
So my own personal journey so far filled in the online form, went to Quest, got blood
drawn and a few days later I'm talking to one of their wellness professionals as they
guide me through my results and the supplementation that they suggest.
In my case specifically, because I transitioned out the fire service five years ago and been
very diligent with my health, my testosterone was actually in a good place.
So I went down the peptide route and some other supplements to try and maximize my physiology
knowing full well the damage that 14 years of shift work has done.
Now I also want to underline because I think this is very important that each of the therapies
they offer, they will talk about the pros and cons.
So for example, a lot of first responders in shift work, our testosterone will be low,
but sometimes nutrition, exercise and sleep can offset that on its own.
So this company is not going to try and push you down a path, especially if it's one that
you can't come back from.
So whether it's libido, brain fog, inflammation, gut health, performance, sleep, this is definitely
one of the most powerful tools in the toolbox.
So to learn more, go to transcendcompany.com or listen to episode 808 of the Behind the
Shield podcast with founder Ernie Colling.
This episode is sponsored by a company I've used for well over a decade and that is 511.
I wore their uniforms back in Anaheim, California and have used their products ever since.
From their incredibly strong yet light footwear to their cut uniforms for both male and female
responders, I found them hands down the best workwear in all the departments that I've
worked for.
Outside of the fire service, I use their luggage for everything and I travel a lot and they
are also now sponsoring the 7X team as we embark around the world on the Human Performance
project.
We have Murph coming up in May and again I bought their plate carrier.
I ended up buying real ballistic plates rather than the fake weight plates and that has been
my ride or die through Murph the last few years as well.
One area I want to talk about that I haven't in previous sponsorship spots is their brick
and mortar element.
They were predominantly an online company up till more recently but now they are approaching
100 stores all over the US.
My local store is here in Gainesville Florida and I've been multiple times and the discounts
you see online are applied also in the stores.
So as I mentioned 511 is offering you 15% off every purchase that you make but I do
want to say more often than not they have an even deeper discount especially around
holiday times.
But if you use the code SHIELD15 you will get 15% off your order or in the stores every
time you make a purchase.
And if you want to hear more about 511, who they stand for and who works with them, listen
to episode 580 of Behind the Shield podcast with 511 regional director Will Ayres.
Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast as always my name is James Gearing and this week
it is my absolute honor to welcome back onto the show psychologist and author Dr. Ken Druck.
Now in this second conversation we discuss a host of topics from his new book How We
Go On, Grief in the Stages of Life, Mental Health in Our Children, Aging, Trauma in Gaza
and so much more.
Now before he gets this incredibly powerful and important conversation as I say every
week please just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the
show, leave feedback and leave a rating.
Every single 5 star rating truly does elevate this podcast therefore making it easier for
others to find and this is a free library of over 900 episodes now.
So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so
I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.
So with that being said I welcome back onto the show Dr. Ken Druck.
Enjoy.
Ken I want to start by welcoming you back to the Behind the Shield podcast.
We spoke pretty much a year ago now and as we were talking before we hit record the world
has continued to exhibit many many problems I would argue a lot of mental health problems
but so we got a lot of things still interesting things to talk about but I want to start by
welcoming you back onto the Behind the Shield podcast.
Thank you again for being generously inviting me to into your living room and to meet with
all the good people that are following this incredible podcast.
So I want to start we were just talking a moment ago and it's funny because it kind
of made me think about the latest t-shirt that I made for the podcast.
Every so often I just make a single design and then when they're all gone they're gone
but the last couple were about kind of ownership, lives depend on you that kind of thing and
then the last time I had this thought that just popped in my head and the writing on
the back says self-care and sabotage and you literally used some of that verbiage a second
ago the reason I made this and it's got it's like a heart with a grenade pin in it as a
design is exactly that I've witnessed myself play this this this seesaw my whole life and
there's times where I'm not drinking and I'm hydrating and I'm meditating and doing all
the things and there's other times where you know I'm just crashing and burning for a while
so I would love you know just while we're on this subject talk to me about that tug
of war of the self-care side and the sabotage.
You know years ago James I began to you know understand that I knew what to do it's like
I don't need another lecture on self-care you know I know what to do I know to hydrate
it like just like what you were saying I just don't do it or I've got things operating inside
of me that kind of sabotage it's like no I'm not going to do that and I discovered that
I have an oppositional defiant voice in me because I work really hard during the day
and that voice in me comes out and says at the end of the day you know go ahead you go
ahead to the freezer and visit Ben and Jerry they love you unconditionally they've never
said no to you you eat as much as you want of that sweet stuff you know or you do this
so you can drink as much or you can do whatever but it was kind of an oppositional defiant
a saboteur a part of me that knows what the right thing to do is but doesn't do it because
I because that's the way I've learned how to thank myself appreciate myself rest myself
reward myself is through emotional eating or emotional drinking or emotional whatever
it is sex pick pick your favorite sex drugs rock and roll so I started really drilling
down to what what what about the part of me that does emotional eating that suffers the
consequence of too much what about my knees that hurt when I when I start getting putting
on too many pounds what about my heart what about the part of me that wants to be a grandpa
of two beautiful grandsons and I don't want to be the dead grandpa you know some of us
have had we got the ground oh where's grandpa grandpa died because grandpa didn't take care
of himself I don't want to be the dead grandpa or the grandpa in the chair who can't get
up out of the chair and go and play with the kids and kick a soccer ball or whatever it
is so for me I started getting grounded and what do I want the good what's the good result
so that I can rebalance the oppositional the cop oppositional part of me with the part
of me that has to suffer the consequences that doesn't that doesn't hold that high
enough as a goal that I'm not going to be the dead grandpa or I'm not going to be the
person who's exhausted burned out depleted whose neurotransmitters are singed at every
edge who's burning the candle at both how do I understand that I can I have the power
I have the ability and I have the time and the motivation to take better care of myself
how do I get there and that's that's what I did and I showed you before that to anybody
I'm you know I love and honor and appreciate all responders and people who like me have
devoted a great part of their life and I wrote the self-care handbook and I will take anybody
goes to my website and get a free copy of that all you gotta do is tell me you know
I saw a can on you know behind the shield and I heard about the offer all I gotta do
is tell you that I want it and you'll send it to me anyhow so the self-care saboteurs
are the things we need to get a handle on that's what I did I said what do I do what
are my self-care saboteurs so in this book which I think you guys will have fun with
and by the way I have no need to sell this but I'm just sharing it with you if there
are the the keys to mastering self-care but there's also the saboteurs here are the saboteurs
here are some of them so you know you look at never enough perfectionism or the idea
that we're feelings of undeservedness or unworthiness or when we allow guilt shame fear embarrassment
to shut us down from doing what we need to do for ourselves or the feeling that we're
taking food out of somebody else's mouth or we're not we're crapping out or copping out
you know being or we're with we're in an abusive relationship with a partner or a co-worker
or a boss who insists that we leave nothing for ourselves and doesn't understand that
longevity health and our best possible performance comes from balancing rest and activity balancing
self-care with hard work and so on so I started confronting all these saboteurs and the result
is that I'm taking better care of myself so we have a choice we can either wait until
there's a crisis we go in for our annual physical and somebody says you've got a life threatening
illness or our partner says I can't go on this way or we reach an existential crisis
or some kind of a change in our life and we can wait until the moment of crisis where
we have to do something different to take care of ourselves or we can be proactive we
can create a clear vision of what it is what the good result is that we want in our life
and begin to align our behavior the way we think the way we act with that good result
to get it because we deserve it.
I read a book called the war of art by Stephen Pressfield a while ago I'm writing a second
book at the moment and it's been extremely hard because the first one was a non-fiction
this is a fiction now and he talks about the resistance and I thought it was such an incredible
kind of perspective that when you're feeling that resistance that's because what you're
trying to do is very important and then I was just talking to someone yesterday when
an interview and it kind of dawned on me well does that apply in other areas too you know
is there you know that kind of resistance to the health to the exercise for some people
because unbeknownst to them it's actually really important and that's where that pushback
is coming from from a psychological perspective what's your thoughts on that?
Well there's a continuum on one extreme is complete avoidance we spend our lives trying
to hide deny repress avoid dumb down numb out really and go into denial and avoidance
and we just try to skip around every challenge every adversity every loss every what now
moment in our lives we all all of us and everybody we know is going through some kind of a what
now moment or what if moment whether we meet that moment in our lives or whether we live
in avoidance and the avoidance that I was talking about or whether we meet it defines
the quality of our lives quality of our health the quality of our relationships and our character
the quality of our character whether we're living in integrity or we're so completely
out of alignment because we're not living in the truth of the way things really are
and the way things really work we're not using what we know we're so we're so fearful so
we have we have the choice in every moment of life we have in every day of life we have
the choice to meet those what now moments and the what now moment could be it could
be that we've suffered a loss it could be what now because I'm working in a job I'm
doing work that is depleting me I don't wake up looking forward to life or what now moment
might be something we're afraid to bring up in our relationship because you know it
could open a can of worms so we we avoid it it's that courageous conversation that we've
been avoiding with our partner that if only we could have that and take ownership for
our part not to sit there and blame it's like you know I've got to talk to you here are
10 things you're doing wrong and here's here's the way you're not making me happy and it's
your fault you know no I want to start the conversation with I'm feeling scared or I'm
feeling cheated or I'm feeling lost or confused or uncertain or unloved or undervalued or
whatever it is whatever you need to say is the feeling and then to say here's my part
in it I don't talk to you I don't bring it up to you I'm even scared to talk to you about
it now because I'm afraid that it's going to unleash a whole bunch of complaints and
concerns and you know problems with you and I'm going to get punished for having brought
it up I'm just gonna you're gonna hijack my transparency my disclosure and into a whole
bunch of complaints that you've had that you haven't shared with me so I think it's important
to be able to meet whatever kind of moment our life is presenting us on whatever track
and to do so courageously life asks us to summon newfound courage you know you think
back who's the who's the guy who did some of the things that I've done in the past who
had the bravery to do some of the things where did he find that well he he brought it up
from within himself or herself they summoned the courage the strength the bravery to meet
that what now moment and to train themselves how to do that and life continues to bring
up all kinds of new opportunities and new eyes you get older there's the what now moment
like when when did this happen I turned 40 or 50 or 60 or 70 or 80 or 90 you know what
now I'm realizing that life is a lease deal so I'm going through this existential angst
that my god my god life is going to end one day that really happens it's like okay there's
a what now moment am I going to meet that moment or am I going to learn to run like
hell from that moment am I going to summon the strength the courage to think about how
life does go on and how I'm going to live vibrant beautiful visionary joyful purposeful
meaningful years right up until my ride is over so I think we have a choice we don't
get to choose some things about this life the way this life unfolds but we do get to
have the choice about whether we're going to be the person who meets summons the courage
and the faith and the strength and the humility and the honesty to meet the moments of our
lives whatever they are whatever they are and we all have they're different for each
one of us might even be dealing with something in the past the what now moment might be what
about then what about what happened how can I repair how can I apologize how can I make
amends how can I ask for forgiveness how can I give forgiveness so it's life presents us
with unlimited opportunities to show up so your new book how we go on you know you have
it kind of segmented almost through the lifelines you just talked about the the finite age of
a human being in our last conversation which for everyone was episode 750 so three quarters
of the way to a thousand you know we talked about a host of issues I mean obviously losing
your daughter tragically at 21 years old and then your grief as a parent and how that led
you down this path now and we talked about some of the school shootings in 9-11 and the
ripple effects of those there's been a realization it was literally something that a guest of
Joe Rogan said like on the fly I think Joe talked about it was Big Pharma or whatever
the thing was and this this gentleman had said they're hurting too I had never thought
of it that way we struggle to understand why the heads of you know Oxycontin you know Purdue
Pharma or tobacco companies or fast food or politicians or some of these frivolous lawsuit
lawyers whoever it is don't get you know don't feel and as we've progressed through with
the mental health conversation you understand how distorted the brain gets sometimes which
then leads people into suicidal ideation possibly even homicidal ideation to me it seems like
that's a big missing piece of this whole conversation is I really believe there's a lot of mental
ill health in politics in you know because how could a compassionate human being go to
sleep at night knowing that they just sent a bunch of people off to war or that their
pain pills are killing people in you know West Virginia so what is your perspective
of that because I've never really heard that talked about this is one comment on this one
interview but the the mental health crisis extending to the very people that are supposed
to be leaders and in all these different fields I think some of the ways we model good mental
health or bad mental health are all over the place you have people instead of owning up
to their part and what's not working the way it needs to you have people casting blame
forming conspiracies you know pointing out in as many ways as possible how somebody else
is responsible for the problem and that sets up the polarization so you have people you
have a country that is splintered in half in the US you have two sides there's no there's
there are very few people in dialogue you know even with what's going on right now in
the Middle East I've been working with organizations that have been bringing together Israeli and
Palestinian families for 30 years they've been working hard they've humanized to one
another they haven't objectified those Palestinians those Israelis those Jews those Muslims they've
humanized they found the common ground on which they love all love their families on
which they don't want to use they don't want to recycle the hatred the objectification
that what they are doing to honor their losses and what they've been through and the trauma
they've suffered is to prevent one other family from having to suffer the way their family
has because of a loss because of the hatred because of the violence because they objectified
and what you find unfortunately and you find it I'm just going to be honest with you disproportionately
on one side of the ledger in the US you find somebody who has severe mental health issues
who I've known for over 55 years who is leading the band who has set the tone and you have
a lot of people who are extremely suggestible believing that that's the way to be a man
that's the way to run a country that's the way to hand to solve our problems and it's
tragic because it's led us down a dark and dangerous path so you have somebody with very
questionable mental health very questionable mental health setting the tone and being an
example where so our kids we want our kids to follow that somebody who is into name calling
somebody who is into that kind of blame condemnation objectification you know who who assassinates
people's character who's not honest about his own who's corrupt and not honest about
his own life so I think that has sent set a dangerous precedent and then I think we
also have we look for we live in a quick fix world we don't understand that some mental
health issues it's like grief we you and I talked about grief and loss at the last time
and I told you how I teach grief literacy I teach young psychiatrists at the University
California San Diego I've taught grief literacy at the Harvard School of Public Health I give
talks lectures all over the world about grief and loss which is something all of us go through
and instead of trying to deny and and quick fix a have you gotten over it instead of doing
the things that perpetuate the pain that prolong the pain and the suffering of a loss instead
of giving the people we care about the support and understanding that they need and the time
in a judgment free zone we want to know are you over it you gotten over it we want to
give them quick fix solutions well you know she's in a better place you know and you let's
do the spiritual bypass and instead of being with people we try to figure it out and fix
them quick because grief is messy business well mental health is also messy business
so we want people who are depressed or anxious or suffered trauma to get over it what's your
problem been a year it's been five years it's been ten years how come you're not getting
over it hasn't what's wrong with your operating system you know so-and-so got over it what's
your problem we diminish people we conduct a courtroom exercise with only an admonishing
prosecutor no defense attorney no voice and that the core of this new book James which
I think you're gonna love is take your foot off of your throat and put your hand on your
heart when your foot is on your throat it's pressure it's impatience it's harsh self
criticism it's condemnation it's blame it's denial if you're living by talking telling
yourself things talk to yourself it's like what's what's my problem look at me what an
idiot I am how could I have missed that or what are you wrong how come I can't get over
it catch yourself here and move that hand down to your heart because when we speak to
ourselves with self with compassion it's like how could I not feel that way how could I
not continue to miss my daughter it's been 27 years since she died the critical part
of me would say what the hell is your problem it's been 27 years but the heart doesn't
know from years the heart doesn't measure love in years or yearning or missing or grief
so it's how could I not when I see a young girl with her hair or when I one of her friends
calls me to tell me she had a kid or she's now the vice president of her company and
how could I not feel like my daughter's life was lost to her and it was lost to me and
her sister she you know who who thinks about who tells her kids stories about their aunt
who died you know how could we not so compassion patience the hand on our heart is patience
it says you know this takes this is taking as long as it takes and if there's something
I can do to help myself heal I need to do it it's not going to happen by magic there's
no quick fix it's not going to happen by shaming myself beating the crap out of myself
or listening to somebody on the radio or TV who's telling me I need to get over it that
there's some quick fix I'm just not using it they're the expert so moving that simple
change from talking to ourselves and treating ourselves instead of doing it with pressure
harsh self-criticism condemnation with kindness patience understanding support encouragement
love forgiveness understanding more than anything this is what I'm going through how could I
not be feeling this and what because that leads to the creative solutions somebody's
got a gun to our head how can we be thinking about what we can do to help ourselves we're
so busy beating the crap out of ourselves but we can't say all right let's do some good
things to help ourselves let's let's ask you know the least utilized word in the male vocabulary
starts with an h it's the word help how can I get the help that I need it's okay to get
the help I don't need to shame myself or belittle you know what help is a good thing there are
people who have great tools and abilities and understanding that I'm not able to give myself
yet it's okay to get to look to them for support and resources and tools until I learn how
to care for myself in this way it's okay to read a book it's okay to listen to a great
podcast like this one where somebody's providing all all the possible tools and reason why
we can heal and help ourselves we can clear the path forward to our best possible future
rather than living stuck living in suffering living in despair living in the dark night
you hit on you know an unnamed person but this is uh this is something that I've observed
as well you know the the thing that's missing from any campaign apart from what they actually
stand for is kindness and compassion and community and pulling people together not forcing them
apart when you look at the system because I mean I have been you know discussed it certainly
in the last eight plus years of who we've been presented and out of 330 million people
we keep hearing the lesser of two evils well that should never happen when you have such
a large pool to choose from but when you look at the kind of human being that would thrive
in a selection process where you firstly have to be a millionaire or billionaire and secondly
the lobbyists are going to fund your campaign and then there's you know in return you're
going to do all these favors it's the people without good mental health that are going
to get through the top of that so one of the things that I've always you know I've been
talking about is it's not about politics we're all Americans and then there's been this division
and just like you said and yet when you talk to most people 80 plus percent of us are actually
in the middle we just kind of been pulled one way or another but most people want the
same exact thing so what is your perspective of the way that we choose these people and
what can we do I mean I want to get to the ownership of the individual but while we're
talking about this what does that need to look like so the real good human beings are
good leaders of the US can actually succeed in a selection process yeah you know many
of us have lived in families where there was somebody like the individual we're talking
about they are unreachable they've got an a loop a narrative looping in their brain
they are entitled they are arrogant and they are narcissistic and they have no infrastructure
they have arrogance an inflated sense of themselves a lot of lies a lot of exaggerations because
they have no infrastructure and when they begin to confront reality the consequences
of what they've done the people they've hurt in the family the things they've done that
have gone sideways they free fall into tremendous despair because there's nothing in the middle
that says hey you can do better than this hey tell the truth hey you have a part in
this hey apologize hey be responsible leave a legacy of love not one of chaos and division
so there's nothing in the middle to guide them they are just operating from here up
there's no soul there's no compassion there's no empathy now some of these people I've known
you know a little bit about my background I'm from New York I know a lot of these people
I've known them I've coached some of them and I can tell you that in many of them there's
an emptiness a toxic emptiness that gets filled in dangerous ways you know it's the emptiness
of fascism of leaders and we and we can see them Putin is another one the man has no heart
no soul so there are people and organizations individuals and cultures that have cultivated
an indifference to the pain of other people and there are people in our own families this
way and it they are unreachable but it requires us to have the courage first of all to wake
up some of us have been have drank the Kool-Aid we looked for the quick fix solution the easy
to blame person we mounted it with the whole narrative in our head is is an interpretation
we believe it's the truth and it's the furthest thing in the world from the truth the truth
starts with our own honesty about our own feelings but how scared we are about what's
happening in our country or how frightening it is to to be to not know what's happening
as a result of immigration or what's happening as fentanyl comes across the border or what's
happening you know in in the Middle East or in Ukraine and Russia and all these diet all
this dialogue all these interpretations what's happening in our own Congress in our own government
the degree of corruption or distortion or polarization so I think it's up to us to
have the courage and clarity to get educated about the truth what's the truth here and
nobody's perfect it's very easy you know we've outed so many things in the last eight
years as you've said we've outed the degree of racism we have in our culture that we thought
we were much further down the road on the road of equality of people knowing we're all
God's children we have outed the fear the terror and the threat that a lot of people
feel with LGBTQ with people who have different interpretations of their gender and their
attraction to other people and their biology we've outed anti-semitism
the hatred we've licensed people to hate Jews let's hate them you know those Jews we've got
all these narratives they're historical narratives and now we've outed age aged bias that Joe Biden
you know he doesn't he's slurring his words he's you know in our families some of us dismiss
the elders in our families because they've slowed down or they slur a word or they tell a story
twice or three times and here we are and yet they have such a richness and such a depth and such
experience and good judgment here we are using everything in our power some people are to dismiss
and marginalize a man who's actually done some great things in the most difficult time in our history
who's done some good things is he perfect no could we pick him apart if we if that's our agenda
we could pick any human being apart any human being if we put that microscope on them we can
find fault we're all a work in progress so for me it starts with waking up out of if we've been
drinking the Kool-Aid to wake up and get educated and find out what's really going on second to align
ourselves with and elect and vote for leaders visionary leaders who bring us as you said together
who have compassion there's room enough there's compassion enough to say people are hurting in
Israel people are hurting in Gaza people are hurting in America people are hurting in all
of our cities people of every race every background every religion how can we
show the kindness that we're learning to treat ourselves with how can we show them the kindness
the generosity of heart
the understanding the support because isn't there enough to go around have we really tapped the
resources to bring stability to create homes for the homeless we haven't begun to tap the resources
and if we're perpetuate part of the problem because we're acting greedy
or we've aligned ourselves with people who don't think there's enough to go around
or to show compassion support and understanding to other people and by the way I'm not saying
we shouldn't be tough love too damn it let's let's set up healthy boundaries where they need to be
on the border in our lives and our families with people we have relationships with that are out of
control that would exploit us and have other agendas agendas other than our own
well-being let's let's do tough love but let it come from that place of compassion
strength and understanding well speaking of compassion strength and understanding I just
had an incredible man on the show Dr. Thayer Ahmad who is a ER physician in Chicago Southside
and just spent a few weeks in Gaza with a group of manneterians he went over with
and it was such a beautiful conversation at the beginning he talked about how an Israeli surgeon
cardiologist had saved his father's life when he was younger and then he talks about when he first
landed he went to Jerusalem and there were Jews and Muslims and Christians all praying side by
side and he made the observation that look we can you know coexist here and then he goes to Gaza
and obviously sees the other side and you know this the systematic
kind of flattening of the entire area and he's again coming from humanitarian lens and you know
he talked about the atrocities of October 7th and how those people were victimized
but the the truth in the middle is innocent people being affected by this so you're talking
about working this organization for decades kind of what is what has been the push and what is the
resistance that that group is is receiving from uniting you know the Israelis and Palestinians in
that area? You're a person who knows a lot about trauma so we we need to talk start the conversation
by talking about trauma. I've been working with the families and the kids
whose friends went to a concert
whose friends were raped and kidnapped
who knew families and I've also been contacted and been working with some of the kibbutz's where 120
people were murdered slaughtered where their babies were put in the ovens
and murdered young children infants the degree of savagery and brutality
that exceeds some of what was done in the dark ages of human history
has traumatized a nation that was not able to do anything
has traumatized a nation that has also that has been fighting for its own existence
for for history throughout history has created a level of trauma where the idea
that has to be understood not necessarily how we're going about that business
hurting killing destroying the lives of innocent people is not the answer
that collateral damage is not the answer needs to be attended
re-traumatizing the other side so that now another five generations of kids and their families
are going to be caught in that vicious cycle of unprocessed grief and violence
that's the way it recycles indifference objectification of the other person
indifference to their pain and suffering and trauma and more violence because unprocessed
grief becomes violence so there are two elements number one that is the
there are two elements number one the trauma of what happened the savagery
of what happened the barbaric savagery and the second thing is the kidnapping
what perpetuates and and what what i wished there was the strength and maybe it is and
it's getting suppressed in gaza of the people saying you kidnapped 130 of their people are still
here kidnapped how could they not be doing something what they're doing is hurting us
will you please we're compelling you we're forcing you to create peace
to return the hostages because that is the step towards peace if you really care about us
and our families and our children and don't want to see more of us die please do something other
than holding hostages that's not working for us and of course the israelis have a side
both sides are perpetuating the problem and and both sides need to come together but it's going
to be the start of that hopefully this coming weekend there's going to be some very important
peace discussion peace deliberations but hopefully both come with the understanding the compassion
the empathy and the understanding about the trauma the murderous rage that was rained upon a people
what started this and this this this new wave of violence and the fact that it's perpetuated
that it's not going to it's being the re-traumatization is happening every day
because there are families waiting for their loved ones to come home and now that is perpetuating
on the other side the trauma of thousands of people losing family members innocent children
members innocent people who only wanted peace you know one of the greatest tragedies in the beginning
of all this because you know now that i've been working with a lot of the families in both
organizations of palestinian and israeli families and with his with kids who are in israel taking
their gap year in high school and with some of the kibbutz the people who were in kibbutz's that were
assaulted but what what i think is critically important in in the equation of all this
is what what how do we put in front in leadership roles the people who forge peace
who are praying together how do we show that how do we portray that in our news media
how can we show the organizations that are heartsick there's an organization that's been
based in san diego called hands of peace they bring israeli and palestinian kids together every
year into san diego for three weeks and they all go home as visionary leaders
saying i can't from now on i cannot objectify the israeli kids that are my age i cannot objectify
the palestinian kids that are my age they're human beings with families just like me
so how we find that common ground how we elevate leaders who understand it
who we vote for how we negotiate who we send into those negotiations is going to be critical to
creating that kind of peace it's a different situation in israel and ukraine because you
have somebody who's unreachable you have somebody who is psychotic in my opinion
who's operating on an unreachable beyond disordered you know homicidal maniac
who's also brilliant like a lot of these leaders they're brilliant at marketing
they're brilliant at politicking what they do and selling it and creating a storyline that
gains them some degree of popularity and they're brilliant at marketing
a storyline that that gains them some degree of popularity
there's been many times in history and i know iraq and palestine had a near peace treaty
you know a few decades ago and then there was assassination martin with the king assassination
jfk assassination um the one of the leaders of the moussa hadin that was bringing everyone together
um assassination again talk to me about that it seems like when we do get those the people
that we need to be up front more often than not they're removed from society in the most horrible
way that's right yep there are those who don't want peace
there are those who want to continue the war look there are people in our own families and communities
who thrive on chaos and war and division and whether it's whether they they have a religious
affiliation with white nationalism whether who knows what what drives it but there are people
but there are people in our communities that believe that that is the way to deal with it to
perpetuate the chaos they would be lost in a world of peace their personalities their beliefs their
whole what gives life meaning for them is to be victims there's somebody's victims you know there's
there's um you know and and what they don't realize when i said sometimes people need to awaken
it's because they've become useful idiots now the world's top useful idiot is a man who used to be
president most people don't realize that he is the useful idiot of people within our own country
people within our own government he's just the he's the the face of it all he's he's Putin's useful
idiot he's the useful idiot of other world leaders
America's useful idiots and those people that follow that track that way of operating in the
world that worldview i'm i tragically and i i've been honored enough to meet those who kind of
oh have awakened from the coma who've stopped drinking the kool-aid and say i can't do this
anymore i can't follow this track anymore he's finally gone too far because the question i ask
because the question i ask is what would have to happen what would have to happen that would get you
to see you know maybe what i'm saying is a lie maybe i'm the crazy one maybe i'm the one who's
out of touch with reality but what would have to happen and ask me the same question what would
have to happen that would get me to awaken and see that that it's really the other way
well i think we need a good leader the problem was the one that followed him was awful in a bunch of
different ways i mean you know i've got many many first responder friends that gave everything at
the beginning of covid and then were terminated because of vaccine requirements you know a year
later you know what i mean no one stood behind them so again i saw i saw that uh that cleaving
you know continue it had a different color tie absolutely but that division was still perpetuated
with with the one that we have at the moment as well with without an apology to say i might have
been mistaken as many leaders have i you know there are some wonderful visionary leaders in our country
they're younger they're they understand they they know when to apologize for a mistake
or a misjudgment they would say to all the responders looking back at what happened and
how we handled it boy there were there were some options we didn't exercise and and we owe you not
an appellate not only an apology but an opportunity to pay but pay you back for what you lost if if
that's at all possible so you know there there are there are humble having humility having a leader
with humility in the capacity or a family member for that matter who shows humility and the capacity
to apologize or to admit a mistake or to say my part in you know my the good parts that i feel
proud of were here but the parts that i don't feel proud of and that i'm questioning how i handle that
situation are here and that's that's what a good visionary leader is it's somebody with the ability
to self-correct the ability to admit a mistake the ability to try to make it up you know because
sometimes an apology isn't enough sometimes you know i and i'm sorry is it's nice but it's not
enough it's i'm sorry how could i make it up to you i'd like to do something that would show you
my desire from my remorse my understanding of what this cost you how could what could i do that could
begin to make it up to you because if it's possible i'll do it and and that's that's what heals our
relationships and our families our marriages with our kids with our parents our aging parents
and in our communities it's people who come to the table in in the spirit of collaboration
reconciliation peace and are ready to let's let's build this country back strong together
it's going to take both of us let's build it together a couple of years ago i started a
a book i didn't finish it was called unlikely friendships
because i have several friends i disagree with them vehemently politically we disagree you know
they they see it completely different we we have a lot of common ground a lot of things we both
believe in and support and and and uh but there are a lot of things we disagree and i call those
unlikely friendships but we learn from each other we have an agreement don't send me anything to
try to tell me i'm wrong to beat me up and to tell me you know but if there's something that
if there's something that would illuminate my understanding of some of the things we've talked
about and it's given in good faith then please send it to me and i'll i'll read it and i'll be
grateful and that that's the condition under which we conduct our unlikely friendship we need more
unlikely friendships yeah we all work we're all it's going to happen with all of us working together
absolutely well you talked about humility as well i think that's a that's a huge piece that's missing
in and i'm not talking even at the national level it could be at the you know the fire department
level at the officer of just an engine or the actual department but it takes a lot of courage
to be humble i think and it takes even more courage to say as you just touched on you know what i was
wrong and it's insanity because you think about the political landscape people use the words
wishy-washy and you know they go back to something that someone said 20 years ago well i started
this podcast only seven years ago i think completely different now after you know 900
conversations than i did back then so there's lots of times where i've gone back and gone oh wow i
didn't you know that was that was wrong the way you used to talk about that we didn't know and i
like that term as well they did the best with what they had that's what we got to remember as well
but to just put you know just say i've changed my mind that is a superpower but it's it's almost
like there's so much fear around that because people look at that as like oh well then you
don't know how you think yes you do it's okay it's a metamorphosis when you were six you weren't
having geopolitical conversations or you know doing whatever it is that your specialty is in
your occupation now we constantly evolve and i think that humility piece which you know is
humility piece which goes completely against obviously narcissism which is what we normally
find you know at the helm these days it's the humility that is so important we're so quick to
condemn we're all works in progress we're all it's so easy to condemn i i have to tell you a quick
a quick story that that really lights that issue up so last year my wife said you know i she's had
this bucket list issue she says i want to go see the mountain gorillas in rwanda okay we're going
to go see the mountain gorillas in rwanda we go to rwanda which is a place where there was genocide
25 30 years ago you've never seen a more transformed country in your life really clean
they devote one day a month the whole country picks up any piece of trash paper cans and there's
nothing on the streets it's impeccably clean they've they have really transformed their country
there are green fields of crops growing everywhere there's peace everywhere people understand that
it's changed and so i went up i did the first day i hiked to 11 000 feet in the rain
i saw the gorillas i had an incredible experience we had two days booked my wife was going to go up
the second day and i said you know what you go i'm going to go on an adventure and so i went
with the guide another one of the guides i really like i said take me up i heard about this group
that lives up at 10 000 feet called the gorilla guardians
i want you to take me up because i want to meet them
meet them poaching generations of poachers families they have gone from generation to
generation to generation poaching gorillas because that's the way they survived
have now formed a group there are now dozens of gorilla families on the mountainside
because these guys have said instead of poaching the gorillas we're going to protect them
even though my family has done this for generations my family has believed
and been able to justify that doing this was the way to survive take care of your family
we've turned it around now they protect the gorillas
now they protect the gorillas i walked into this village
i was introduced to the leader through a translator and i walked directly up to the leader
and i pointed and i said i am here to honor you
my wife is on the mountain right now fulfilling a lifelong dream to see the gorillas
the mountain gorillas in their own element because of you
because of what you've done and i we are enjoying your beautiful country
because of you and what you've done and what you've turned around so i am here to honor you and to
thank you this was all translated to him all the men started gathering around at the time
what did they start doing they started singing and dancing
and i started singing and dancing with them here i am in the mountaintop singing and dancing with
the gorilla guardians rejoicing in a change that they were willing to make
and honoring them instead of condemning them honoring them and it gave me a clear sense of
that we need to do more honoring in this life
that is amazing we need to learn a lot more about what it means to honor those people
who are beginning to open their eyes to another possibility that perpetuates life
not death not violence peace
allowing a species to to not become extinct
and giving people a chance a different way to feel prosperous and to take care of their families
and that needs to happen everywhere in all different kinds of expressions
but we have it within us to forge peace
we have it within us to show that we can do more
we have it within us to show perhaps the greatest gift we can give each other as human beings
that is the gift of feeling understood
and you look into somebody's eyes and you say you really get it i just said something you not only
listened you really get it the experience of feeling understood and met
is the basis the foundation for peace for coexistence for for resolving our differences
it's not blaming condemning beating up
judging excluding othering all those other things which unfortunately are being perpetuated
by people who are reckless and greedy
because all they want is their own power and domination over matters and they believe that's
they play to the to the people who who are afraid
so we need to summon the courage to not be afraid and to venture on that path of peace
that path forward of peace not of war and conflict and self-righteousness
or imposing our beliefs about what this life is and how it all works
i'm so glad that you told that story that is incredible i remember seeing the the film hotel
rwanda and it was just such a you know horrendous horrendous time were you able to find out
what changed because i know it was tribal wasn't it so leader leadership leadership
visionary leader and again this leader didn't do everything right talk about tough love there was
a lot of tough love there were consequences for people who were perpetuating misinformation
corruption greed were not taking care of the people of the country who are hoarding it all
the oligarchs
and the leadership said this is my vision for what's possible
let's create a safe prosperous nation where people are getting along together and those people
who don't want to live by those rules will have will meet consequences
they will be invited to go play somewhere else
so i i love
the idea of a visionary leader who has a clear positive picture and creates the opportunity
and and also creates a clear sense of consequences for people who are going to try to undermine it's
not a dictatorship it's not an autocracy it's just saying here's here are the rules we're going to
play by here's how this works and here's how it doesn't work
have you ever been to haiti yes so i haven't been to haiti i will say not at the actual real haiti
but um we cruise quite a lot because we're in florida and uh there is a port labadee which i
think is a kind of an outcropping of of haiti yeah i have never seen such a beautiful part of the
world i mean obviously there's beauty in different ways but i mean if if you talk about island
beauty that labadee section is it and it breaks my heart and i work with um the
haitian guys when i first moved to the u.s and was working in miami and they would talk about you
know baby doc and pop a doc and you know all the the corruption but it's so sad because they just
industry i mean just tourism alone just even if it was just cruise ship you know what i mean
there's the potential for that that island to thrive and it's so heartbreaking to see this on
the planet yes yeah so so talk to me about that because again you know that if i'm not if i'm
understanding it right there's basically no leadership there at all it's kind of chaos so
what have you seen through that lens with that island because that seems like a place that could
really learn from wanda for example yeah i i haven't been to haiti in many many years
and i see the same heartbreaking stories of corruption and violence and suffering and poverty
it's heartbreaking the leadership the absence of leadership and like you said the people who try
to rise up as leaders who are assassinated who are killed who are threatened who are intimidated
who are talked off the stage you know here we are living in the the era the fresh wound of losing
somebody like alexi navalny
the era the fresh wound of losing somebody like alexi navalny
a man who gave his life didn't didn't walk away gave his life said i am gonna give my life and
now his wife has done the same thing because i am unwilling to comply i cannot be indifferent and
turn my back on my people on the suffering the injustice the greed the corruption
and you know i bet there are some amazing leaders in haiti
whose hearts are broken who are living right on the edge today
fearing for their lives because those who are determined if nothing else to remain in control
of the corrupt of the corruption of what's happened of hoarding the generosity that's been
given to haiti to repair you know and right right across on the other side of the island
you have the dominican republic have you been there i haven't yet that's one place i'm hoping
to get to soon beaches and golf courses beautiful golf courses beautiful i mean they have they have
corruption and poverty too but they have walled off these beautiful communities where people live
in million a couple of million dollar homes right on golf courses and and they have guards all around
them so you know we live we live in a world where
in need of tremendous repair but shortly before my mom's passing she she called me one day she's a
very strong woman with a great background and working in social justice and community and
she called me crying i she had never called me crying and she said i've been watching a lot of
television and the world is broken do what you can to help fix it because i'm not going to be here
and i hope it's the mission of a lot of us to become part of the solution not part of the problem
and it's my mission that's my mission in this life i have two young grandsons
and to leave a legacy the legacy of somebody who tried to become part of the solution
worked hard to become part of the solution rather than remaining indifferent and becoming part of
the problem perpetuating the polarization perpetuating the lies the misinformation
all the reasons we should we should stay separate or not being strong enough to draw healthy lines
where boundaries needed to be drawn one of my guests who was a lawyer who was a lawyer
he was like remember america is the poster for democracy so when you look into this country what
do you see is it you know something that you're going to want to bring to your your country and
you know the principle the philosophy is beautiful but as touched on earlier it's a
demystocracy it's a bunch of things that are going to be brought into your country and you know
the principle the philosophy is beautiful but as touched on earlier it's a demystocracy it's a bunch
of wealthy people telling everyone else what to do even though we're paying them so it's a distorted
version of it but you know when you start fixing the problems in our own in our own borders for
example you know the the uh drug prohibition that's empowered the underworld that now has
caused all these problems in columbia mexico you know that we're so um complicit in a lot of a lot
of suffering in other parts of the world so for me when we actually push back and demand you know
good leadership in all the levels from our own home all the way through to dc not only are we
healing our own country but our ability to heal other countries improves the the number of people
that are fleeing their own country into ours will diminish because people will be happier you know
if haiti looks like labadee you're not going to see many rafts and how many people are going to
leave that beautiful island you know so this is the thing if we really believe in democracy then
we've got to take it back because it's been hijacked from us yes i had the honor of meeting
with an extraordinary visionary leader two days ago she's the senior united states senator she
was voted the most effective senator in the entire united states senate her name is amy klobuchar
and i spent some very important time with her but it's all of us deciding listening to those people
who are brave enough to run for office or to be serving and deciding who we believe is on the
right track who's willing to work across the aisle who's not so stuck in their own party beliefs
but is functioning as a leader with the best ideas the most effective ideas that are going
to create the kind of results that we want and we need to be discerning i mean i i was blown away
by this woman and everything she's doing all the bills she's putting but all the issues she is
attacking in such a constructive way and there are people like her corrie booker is another one
we need to find our visionary leaders and support them because that's how the people that we believe
in rise up and are given the power to lead and the opportunity to lead
and in our own communities as well in our own communities on our school boards and whatever
and if we see somebody who is bringing a toxic formula a quick fix
can't condemning blaming everybody else who's incapable of forging community collaboration
who's just going to be all people are going to be doing is wasting years trying to mount
an attack against that person because they're so toxic you know we we are we have joined the
problem we've become part of the problem if we become indifferent we've got to wake up and fight
for our democracy not if we're smart but because we're smart we will do what absolutely
james what a joy to be able to talk with you about such important issues and such an open
and safe forum and productive forum and i i just want to thank you for the service that you give
to all of us i know it it takes a moving a thousand parts to do this it looks easy you just kind of
you sit behind a microphone and ask great questions but i know this this involves a lot of hard work
on your part and i want to just honor you for your service well thank you likewise i mean yeah the
the interviews that you've done and then obviously all the books that you've put out and the work that
you shared and i mean the number of people that you know are doing so much better now because of
yours so i'll send that honoring right back to you so thank you thank you and anybody who is
interested go to kendrack.com if you want a free copy of the self-care handbook i'd be honored to
give it to them and my hope and prayer for everybody is is let it start here catch yourself here
put your foot on your throat and move that hand down to kindness because compassion for other
people begins with compassion for yourself kindness understanding support education awareness
strength it all begins here and then what you're projecting into the world isn't blame or condemnation
or division what you're projecting into the world is the greater possibilities for our best possible
future absolutely well the book how we go on as i said you kind of break it down into the life
stages we ended up going all over the place and didn't really touch on it specifically where can
people find that because you know again bringing solutions to problems you've laid out this beautiful
kind of uh uh age step element to you know how we go on at the different stages of our life first of
all became a best seller in its second week in existence and was endorsed the cover endorsement
is katie kurik maria schreiver loved the book i did a thing with her with ariana huffington
the book has made its way around the world it's the best-selling book i've ever written
and it's it's uh it's an audio book it's an ebook it's a regular book people can go to howwegoon.com
to order the book how we go on.com and if people want the handbook the self-care handbook or to be
in touch or to get on my newsletter or anything like that they can just go to ken drucke.com
ken drucke.com go onto my website and um there's a there's a place where you can get a copy of the
book sent to your email address brilliant copy of the handbook of self-care fantastic well ken i
want to say thank you again i think the last time we talked for like two and a half hours now we've
got you know scraping an hour and a half this time um it's just such a unique perspective and
just to unpack some of these topics i mean you know we we did so much in the first conversation
so if people want to really dive into your story and your work then episode 750 is a must listen to
but now taking all of that perspective and applying it to some of these things that really
are affecting every single one of us i think it was a really powerful conversation so i want to
thank you so much for being so generous with your time and coming on the podcast today
thanks again james you stay well my brother