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This episode is sponsored by a company I've used for well over a decade and that is 511.

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I wore their uniforms back in Anaheim, California and have used their products ever since.

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From their incredibly strong yet light footwear to their cut uniforms for both male and female

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responders, I found them hands down the best workwear in all the departments that I've worked for.

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Outside of the fire service, I use their luggage for everything and I travel a lot and they are

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also now sponsoring the 7X team as we embark around the world on the Human Performance Project.

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We have Murph coming up in May and again I bought their plate carrier. I ended up buying real

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ballistic plates rather than the fake weight plates and that has been my ride or die through

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Murph the last few years as well. But one area I want to talk about that I haven't in previous

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sponsorship spots is their brick and mortar element. They were predominantly an online

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company up till more recently but now they are approaching 100 stores all over the US.

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My local store is here in Gainesville Florida and I've been multiple times and the discounts you see

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online are applied also in the stores. So as I mentioned 511 is offering you 15% off every

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purchase that you make but I do want to say more often than not they have an even deeper discount

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especially around holiday times. But if you use the code SHIELD15 you will get 15% off your order

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or in the stores every time you make a purchase. And if you want to hear more about 511, who they

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stand for and who works with them, listen to episode 580 of Behind the Shield podcast with

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511 regional director Will Ayres. This episode is sponsored by Bubbs Naturals, yet another company

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that I track down to bring on as a sponsor because I myself love their products. They are offering

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you the audience of the Behind the Shield podcast a 20% discount but before we get to that I do want

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to highlight a few of the products that I use myself. Firstly collagen. I am about to turn 50

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and so my hair, my skin, my nails, not really a big concern when I was younger, definitely a lot more

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of a concern now. However where I've really seen the impact is joint health and gut health and I've

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been blown away that when I'm consistent using collagen, Bubbs collagen in this case, I see a

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massive improvement in both. Another area I drink coffee, love coffee and in the morning I use the

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halo creamer. Now originally I used the MCT oil powder but now they have the halo creamer which

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has also got grass-fed butter in it, a lot more creamy if you're not trying to go for the vegan

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option that they have as well. Now it's important to mention as well the altruistic element of Bubbs

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Naturals. The origin story involves Glenn Bubb Doherty, one of the two Navy SEALs killed in

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Benghazi and a good friend of the founders Sean and TJ. So 10% of every single sale goes towards

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the Glenn Doherty Foundation. Now as I mentioned before they are offering you the audience 20%

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off your purchase if you use the code SHIELD, that's S-H-I-E-L-D at bubbsnaturals.com.

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And finally if you want to hear more about their products and Glenn's powerful story,

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listen to episode 558 with co-founder Sean Lake. Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast as always

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my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show

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Hollywood special effects artist and CEO of Metasphere Industries, Brian Hillard. Now in

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this conversation we discuss a host of topics with such an interesting perspective. From Brian's early

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life, his journey into the world of special effects and movie makeup, the impact of AI on Hollywood,

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veteran and first responder mental health, his work with Daniel Sundahl and most importantly how

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he's bringing the world of special effects into therapies to help first responders and military

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members overcome PTSD. Now before he gets this incredible and unique conversation as I say every

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week please just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show,

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leave feedback and leave a rating. Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast

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therefore making it easier for others to find and this is a free library of almost 900 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so I can

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get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them. So with that being said

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I introduce to you Brian Hillard. Enjoy. Well Brian I want to start by saying welcome to the

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Behind the Shield podcast. This conversation has been a long time coming. You and I connected

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initially through O2X but have had multiple conversations since so I want to welcome you

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onto the Behind the Shield podcast today. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. This as you said

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long time coming and how crazy of a journey right like during when was that six years ago,

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seven years ago and even something like that yeah pre-COVID right everything's pre-COVID these days.

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Mm-hmm yeah I guess it's a new way before COVID. It's a new BC isn't it? It is absolutely 100%

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before COVID. All right well where on planet earth are we finding you today?

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I am in beautiful Holland Michigan. We're right outside of Grand Rapids so yeah I moved out here

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three plus years ago and I'm sure we'll get into all that but originally from Virginia,

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Richmond kind of Henrico County area is kind of where I was born and raised and then

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parents were divorced so I spent a lot of time in the city but I also spent a lot of time

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in the woods with my dad and I think that's where a lot of what we're going to talk about today came

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from interestingly enough just spending time out in nature and rewilding you know has been a thing

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for a couple of years now so I really think that's where I started to kind of cut my teeth on

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who we are, why we are, how we're connected to all of this stuff and it's been a really cool journey

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so I'm interested to kind of see where this goes today. Absolutely well let's go to Virginia first

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so yeah tell me about your upbringing what did your parents do back then and how many siblings

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did you have? My dad was a contractor general contractor for many many years he was a construction

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dude his former military he was a marine his dad was a marine and I kind of broke the mold

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because I never went into service but we'll get to the how I feel I and my team serve these days but

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mom was she worked at Blue Cross Blue Shield for she umpteen years I can't even remember how long

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she was there she retired from there and again divorced family right spent time with half my time

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with mom half my time with dad my dad through a previous marriage had three other children

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so in my younger life you know I had two brothers and a half sister that we spent time with

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and then you know when I probably got into middle school high school a lot of us started losing touch

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and then my mom had remarried they had a child so I have a another half sibling named Terry who's

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still in Virginia has a family of her own so you know it's interesting right like the

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years of your upbringing and growing into that adulthood how things just start getting scattershot

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a little bit you know so yeah originally from Virginia and spent a lot of time

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as I said doing city life and doing woods life which was a really cool kind of duality for me

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so with the two generation marines that you had prior to you now you have this pretty interesting

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mental health lens did you identify any issues of either of their service when you were younger

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yeah my my granddad didn't talk about it a lot and I think he was of that generation like he was of

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the world war two generation dad was the Vietnam generation he would get into those places where

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he would talk about it but it was very disjointed like you could tell he wanted to bring something

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up and kind of get it out but there was also times when both of them like I could see it like it

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would wash over them and they would just be quiet and you could tell something was going on in there

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and whether it was pondering old experiences or remembering friends that they had lost or whatever

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I never really had really deep conversations with them about it but it was always there it was always

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something that was and they were proud of it my dad I mean super duper proud marine I mean

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absolutely interesting story too when he passed he passed seven years ago but my stepmom sent me a

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bunch of his stuff so he had this really cool oak cut out marine plaque and it had the insignia on

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it I mean it's probably yay big she sent me the original class photo from him and all of his

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marine team which was pretty awesome and I've got some of that stuff kind of scattered around my

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office but I took the plaque and I sat with it one day and we'll talk about a lot of this coming up

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but I tend to meditate and breathe daily and I was in meditation and I heard my dad say

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you need to give this to Brian and Brian Marin is one of my very good friends in life he's my

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chief strategy officer at Metasphere former marine sniper and has gone through a lot of life in the

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marines but you know hearing that from my dad you know and former marine to former marine I got it

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so I packed it up and sent it out to Brian I'm like hey something's on the way you're really

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gonna enjoy it I think when you get it and he got it and now it sits behind him in his office

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so there's this this really cool energy of that military imprint for me although I've never

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served at all it's always there and it's all I had I talked to a lot of people we used to work with

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Navy SEAL team guys and their families and still do but I used to tell everybody like this was the

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lifetime that I kind of recycled and didn't serve all the rest of them I feel like I did

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so whatever the belief systems are out there that are listening to this you know energy is a thing

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and where all these quantum beings just kind of experience and what we're experiencing so I

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tend to believe that I've been there done that but that I was here for a different purpose this time

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absolutely I think that's something that people struggle with when they transition out of uniform

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is understanding that you can serve in a number of ways and it doesn't have to be holding a rifle or

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you know running into a burning building you can do that and I did it and it was amazing but right

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now we're having a conversation over a computer which is going to be heard by hopefully thousands

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of people that will in turn help lots and lots of people so I think that's something that's

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going to help lots and lots of people so I think that's it you know there's a hero element almost

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almost an ego element not in a negative way but there's an ego attachment to you know the

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professions are admired but the other silent professionals are the ones that are behind the

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scenes trying to help in a different way yeah and I think you bring up a really good point too

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because yes it does come from ego but you know believe what you believe on the psychology side

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of all of it but ego channeled and targeted is good and it creates that hero persona like it we

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want to go serve like our ego pulls us there right like it's this is what you're doing in this life

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and I feel really attached to that too and I'm glad you brought up the whole hero thing too because

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what we're doing currently which we'll get to a lot of it is based on hero's journey and heroin's

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journey like what we do and what our path and purpose are with this life because I think

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these days and times and it's all over the news as humans we've lost touch with the adventure

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and our purpose and what all that means to us internally and we think a lot with our brains

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right now which I know that sounds weird but I've been taught through my mentors over the years and

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really tapped into it that heart thinking and spirit thinking is something way different than

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having everything kind of spooling up in here and getting a little jumbled so I tend to really follow

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what this thing says and what spirit says mine things that are connected to me so it's been

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an interesting kind of way to peel back the onion for sure. Well when you look back because

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I want to get to this I want to get to your kind of career journey and everything too but obviously

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we are going to have you know I think a pretty interesting conversation about mental health and

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the tools that you're bringing to this conversation people are going to be like blown away by the

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concept but when you look back you had a divorce you know you had some other areas understanding

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that our formative years are a big part of our overall mental health story were there elements

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that you identify as contributing factors in your early life? Oh my god what a great question.

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Through this conversation I commit to you and everybody listening just my own vulnerability

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because I think we've lost touch with that a little bit right especially as men but you know

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the female side of us is starting to you know kind of lose touch too just with what's going on but I

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think being vulnerable and telling truth is absolute power and it's a superpower so yes 100

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percent. You know I grew up there was some sexual abuse in the family there was divorce there was

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drinking on both sides so you know mom found alcohol dad found alcohol my dad was a smoker

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for many years and you know as we've been doing the research on the metaphor side of things

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and you and I have had this conversation too the the genetics and the epigenetics of up-front

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and the epigenetics of upbringing too brings such a giant piece to who we are like I didn't even know

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five years ago what I'm beginning to learn now having spent some time with these amazing people

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that I've been able to spend some time with over these past few years that genetic code comes from

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generate like five generations back like things that might have happened to a grandmother or a

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grandfather way back when we don't even know that it's happening to us and we're triggered by these

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different things because of what they've gone through in their own life and how that kind of

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imprinted into our DNA so that's been something for me professionally that we've been peeling

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back to because it's exactly to your point the upbringing the rearing nature versus nurture like

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all of that stuff definitely absolutely put me on the path that I'm on because I remember

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James just you know hearing mom and dad fight the divorce happens and then you know my mom got

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remarried alcoholic across the board he was an alcoholic he was angry alcoholic and we would get

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into you know all of that and there was physical stuff going on there and I found solace within

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myself and really started to kind of seek out for whatever purposes it was I started looking at

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things differently and I started reading Dennis weightly and Norman Vincent Peale and all of these

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authors back then that were putting out books like power of positive thinking and winning the

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innovation game and all that stuff and I luckily had a wrestling coach in high school Tim Donahue

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was his name and that dude introduced me to so many different things having to do with like

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sports psychology and what psychology is really and how we can use it to perform and then like

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I said at the beginning we you know lived in the woods at my dad's and I would go out into the

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woods and sit against a tree and just start asking questions like not even knowing what I was doing I

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was just asking the universe like what does this all mean and what am I going to do with all of

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this stuff and it really just started to generate this question answer kind of learning cycle with

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me and I remember so many occasions James in the woods with animals and the connectivity there

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I'm writing a book and I've got this one specific story about this buck that my dad and I would hunt

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and it was it was the legend story right like this deer is like 20 points and it's huge and

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it's never been taken blah blah blah blah and he and I were out hunting one morning and

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that damn thing showed up and I was like and you know having a little 410 rifle with me like I was

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like I can't shoot this thing it's too beautiful you know and we had this interaction between the

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deer and I and I take that forward and I think about it all day every day like it's something

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so powerful being connected to something bigger than we are so then you know you look at childhood

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and you look at rearing and all that stuff and absolutely it brought me to where I am right now

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and kind of the cathartic nature of doing everything I've done you know like I've been

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doing everything I've done you know like the creativeness of makeup effects so cathartic and

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the idea of psychology and bringing tools to people that might have gone through some of the

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same stuff I went through as a young person you know so so powerful and then knowing that you know

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I might have this warrior lineage back there you know again believe what you believe but

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knowing and kind of coming to the conclusion that this now is having learned all these things from

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childhood and brought it through to high school years and college years and professional life and

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all that stuff everything's a prologue man like everything's a prologue to that journey and we can

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reboot ourselves daily if we choose to you know and and I could have dug a hole and jumped down and

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covered myself over but for some reason something within me was like nope we're doing this like

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let's do this and do good like do better for you but also do better for you so then you can go out

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and share that with other people because your service like that's what you're gonna do so that

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became really powerful for me. Well you talked about epigenetics I think we talked about this

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in the car a few weeks ago but I actually just had a conversation with my dad and he was like

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yeah you know there was there was certain things I think I don't know if he's talking about

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obesity and diabetes in this particular thing he's totally mad about gut biome you can get him

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talking for hours about that subject but he was showing again the epigenetics element of that

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and the study again was probably done by more modern medicine so what I don't think was also

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discussed was about reversing and this is what I heard I had a guest Alex Jaber on and she she had

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a really interesting perspective of three generations of trauma through epigenetics if you are

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a woman you know a young woman or and you you basically your grandmother could have been exposed

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to trauma to have an immediate direct effect because if she was pregnant with your mother

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well by that point your mother already has all the eggs in her cells as well so yes if she's

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exposed to trauma that's two generations down for a pregnant woman that's two generations down for a

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woman so your grandchild will actually have an you know a direct effect what gives me hope though

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is if you study epigenetics the opposite is also true and we know you can reverse disease with diet

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you can reverse you know addiction and some of these other things and therefore now you're not

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just stopping the domino you're kind of pushing it back the other way right so I think that hope

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element you know we took we hear of uh of genetics say oh I've got alcoholism in my family okay yeah

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and it's that's nature and nurture but the good news is you are not doomed to be an alcoholic

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you get to choose what happens from here on in well you know it's interesting that you bring that

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up to and I 100 percent agree and that's why you know this human fusion equation thing came about

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and I'll tell you more about that but I absolutely think to your point that we can recode the system

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like it's it's electrical impulses right thoughts and all those things that we experience it's all

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you know you think of the matrix and it's all electrical impulses that we're experiencing if

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you can recode those things deliberately with intention and choose to act in a different way

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absolutely I think you and I had this conversation Daniel Sundial and I absolutely had this

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conversation that it frustrates us that in the mental health professions right now and even in

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some of those spaces that are trying to be of service and help um AA for instance you are

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lifetime labeled as an alcoholic it's a it's it's it's a curse like if you're looking at yourself

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as an alcoholic and your help system has labeled you that where's the out like where is the where's

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the getting better where is the I don't identify with this label anymore because I've done the work

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to move through it and not be you know my great granddad who was an alcoholic or my dad who was

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an alcoholic I mean you know I say this with all humility but I'm the poster child like my dad

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he drank like a fish my mom drank like a fish I had a spout in college where I was a mess

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and again for whatever reason the universe spirit was like dude change this and it's it happened and

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things got put in front of me to allow that to happen whether it was I met a mentor or something

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catastrophic happened and I had to change because you know if you don't you're going down the other

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path so you know there's absolutely a way to recode the whole process and I think that's the

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kind of secret sauce in the superpower nature of what we talk about currently is that to your point

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a lot of people don't think that way a lot of people think that they're destined to do this

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because they come from this or that they had this experience as a you know military professional

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and now they're destined for this because of you know I'm getting you know administered all these

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pharmaceuticals and I feel like a zombie and all those different things where I think doing the

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work and doing it deliberately and with an intention to be better for yourself but also to be better for

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the greater good and the community around you it's so powerful it's such a powerful thing and so I

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absolutely agree I think we can do better and change it for sure I had a guest on a couple of

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times Brian McKenzie who's big in the kind of breathwork world and a great conversation but

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I remember him saying that he was in AA and AA seems to be incredibly successful for a lot of

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people a lot of people but he got to a point where just like you said he wanted to shed the label he

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was like I am good it's not like you know it wasn't fooling himself he was like I have this

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new life I shed that skin completely and I just don't want to keep identifying as a recovering

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alcoholic and I think you know yes and yes depending on what works for you but I think

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yes depending on what works for you but knowing that's also an option if you truly you know can

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look in the mirror and say it doesn't have me anymore like I have got past that then you know

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of course there's the whole what they call it sponsor element you know if you're still staying

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in you want to help other people but I think I think Brian had been clean for like 10 years

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or something so at what point do you also say you know what I think I'm ready to just you know turn

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the page and I think that's a healthy decision as well well and you know it's it's sad because

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even us having this conversation there'd be people out there that'll hear this and be like wait a

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minute you know and they'll they'll think the opposite way and to your point yes absolutely

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there's there's that element of it where that system it makes sense and it's helped a ton of

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people but I also think the openness of you know allow people to step away from it and to your

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point you know step into the next chapter because that's a big part of what we've seen in my current

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role is that there's so many different labels and the way that people carry those it becomes such a

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shadow side of them and it's difficult for them to shed and they carry it all day and it affects

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performance across the board like it affects their personal life their professional life

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that you know if they have some type of pre-existing could be diabetic or could maybe

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move into alcoholism or could do this it exacerbates everything you know so I am a

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firm believer in shedding the labels just because you know we've taken post-traumatic stress

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disorder and we don't even think about the word disorder anymore because of the connotation of it

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like it's so evasive and you know we've talked to again many many special operations people

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and their families and to call someone like that disordered I mean even in your fire profession

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right if you're disordered and you can't be there for your team and you're broken and all that stuff

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then what good are you right so we took that word and we're like it's done like we have to call it

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something different because it has to imprint the idea of hope and that there is a way through and

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that you can thrive through this and find that way to thrive through it so we've really started to

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talk way differently and our semantics are different and the way that we kind of put words

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together we've really tried to think about a lot because and again thinking not so much up here but

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but does it feel right to drop the disorder from post-traumatic stress thousand percent because of

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just the way that that word is seen and the label of it right so we've we do things quite a bit

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differently around here which I which I wrap my arms around every day for sure. I about seven

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years ago now I think it's right around the same time as the podcast started I started a page on

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Facebook called the Dark Side Project and it was super early and it was just anyone that wanted to

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just do like you said that courageous vulnerability I had one of my friends Mattie Furenza like in

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tears in bed recording his first one I had other people that were you know we're doing okay and

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they were explaining why they were doing okay it was it was great but I remember the very first one

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was me I was in the gym at my last department and I said I have PTSD now that sounds so weird

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because like you said semantics it's you know there wasn't even like a an extreme element to

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the mental health impact now I was tired and I've been through so I had been exposed to a lot of

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post-traumatic stress but was actually doing a lot better than a lot of people so again you have the

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spectrum and I think yeah the the disorder term and I get it clinically that's I mean still stemming

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from a car backfires and you you know drop to the floor and scurry under a table that's you know the

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disorder they truly were talking about but I love I love the moral injury some of these things that

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have emerged now where shame and guilt and some of these emotions that we feel that we shouldn't

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because we're ordinary people being asked to do extraordinary things and a lot of times these are

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natural reactions to these stressors that much more nuanced conversation I think is beautiful

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absolutely 100% agree so we're going to talk about movie making in a second when you were a young

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man talk to me about art was it was it central in your life at that point oh man yeah I I was

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always an artist I was always drawing and painting and you know copying my Spider-Man comics or

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whatever and at a young age if again for whatever reason just fell into loving horror films and sci

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fi and I remember the first time I saw Twilight Zone it was just blown away because of the

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idea of the storytelling but how fantastic it was and all that stuff and you know both parents

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god love them they they were like okay so you know it was back in the day I aged myself a bit I'm

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I'm 53 so when I was growing up it was you go to the video store you get your rentals right like

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you go to Friday night and you get your stack and they all have to be back by you know next Wednesday

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or whatever but we would go out and rent these horror movies and you know it just for that me

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it was cathartic it was it was watching these fantastic sometimes gross things play out on

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screen and it was like I know I'm carrying some stuff but watching this in this kind of venue

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and having the ability to kind of tap into this as a experience and you know for me again learning

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experience because for some reason it made sense to me so you know when I was young

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I started asking a lot of questions as to how they were doing that stuff and special makeup effects

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you know just came up and I fell in love with it from the time I was probably my last year

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of middle school I guess just really started looking at it started getting fangoria magazines

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just it meshed myself in it and then I watched Friday the 13th and it blew my mind because

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how do you take an arrow and shove it through a dude's neck and have it look real

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so I started doing all that research and found this amazing gentleman named Tom Savini who had

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done Friday the 13th dawn of the dead like all these amazing kind of 80s you know slasher horror

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films and there was a video that came out fangoria put it out many years ago called screen greats

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and it was um like a story about Tom Savini like where he came from what his background was how

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we started doing effects and I was dude enamored like every day I'd watch it and rewind it and

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watch it and rewind it just trying to kind of figure out like what he was doing I would take

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stuff from my mom like makeups and whatever and try to paint like scars and stuff it was crazy

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back then trying to kind of sort out what all that was was your mom happy about that oh man yeah she

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wasn't unhappy because I was not you know out in the world acting crazy like I sometimes tended to

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do she knew I was in my room just kind of you know doing all the stuff she's like oh he's in there

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you know painting using my lipstick again oh yeah using lipstick again what about Tom's backstory

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just a jump in for a second what did you when you think back now were there any elements of

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his early life that contributed to such a unique he was he was a marine um he was a combat photographer

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um and he was in you know he was in uh Vietnam probably around the same time my dad was um

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and he just really found the realness of combat photography and kind of he going through that

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process he almost inoculated himself from gross right like you see it you shoot it you move on

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but it's still you've seen it and it's real and it kind of builds your you know capacity a little

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bit um so he would always say that you know as a combat photographer everything that he wanted to

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create as a makeup effects person he needed it to look damn real like it needs to be photo real

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hyper real and everything that he did that's what he did like he created something that looked

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like you could walk out and it would be something that you would see real world but it was full on

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designed sculpted molded painted blood put on it to make it look real so I think through his

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you know kind of military side and then me finding that he grew up in you know Pennsylvania and

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outside of Pittsburgh kind of had you know similar upbringings with siblings and that type of stuff

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and then he found you know through his military service when he got back he had to start doing

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stuff so he you know started working at a theater and found that that was fun and he started doing

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the effects for the theater and then he just taught himself how to do everything and he was

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always an artist he always drew and stuff but he figured it out um so I think his

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his innovative spirit and just who he was really affected me and then when I found out that he had

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done all these movies you know of course it was even bigger for me and then I tell this story all

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the time but my um my fiance at the time this was back in uh man 1999 I guess 98 99 probably 99

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probably 99 we were in a Barnes and Noble um and walking around and I picked up this fangoria

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magazine because I was still you know imprinted into that whole world um I mean I'm just flipping

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through the magazine and she comes up and she's like hey isn't that guy you tell me about all the

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time so I flipped a magazine over and there was you know Tom Savini makeup effect school at Douglas

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education center and I was like what so he started a school um he had partnered with this trade school

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in Menessin Pennsylvania and they had gone to work and started this special makeup effects program

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um first class had gone through so I called and within two weeks James was there visiting

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and fell in love with the place because I was working at a um I graduated college and was

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working at a staffing firm just wasting away knowing I was wasting away like what's the next

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step here but having to make money after college you know blah blah blah so we went and visited the

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college or the school and it was interesting because my path then was multi-fold right

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thinking about going into the SEAL teams so I had spoken with a gentleman uh Don Mann

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who was a retired team six guy he owned a group back then called Odyssey Adventure Racing and

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I had been racing with Don doing his adventure races for a few years um so Don basically was

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trying to recruit me to come into the SEAL teams through some adventure things that they had going

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on at Odyssey so I had that on my plate I was thinking about Johnson and Wales like going to

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culinary school and then I was about uh two years out of college and my dad and I were talking about

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me maybe going back and getting my masters for sports psychology and then I had Tom Savini school

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so I have four things that I was like what am I gonna do so I had all these things on my desk

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and I did what any you know good thinking person might do I grabbed a quarter and started flipping

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coins so I actually left it to fate I flipped coins and wound up that Savini school became the

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last flip of the coin and that was what I chose to do for like professional career so I went to

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Savini school in 2001 I think it was and did a 16-month intensive program there um got married

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about a month after packed up a U-Haul dragged the car behind and you know stayed in LA for

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almost 20 years after so it was just you know hero's journey right answering the call yep

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that's what we're gonna do and just seeing where it went and it was one of the best decisions of my

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life but then it's interesting too because all of those other three things they've always played a

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vital role in just what I've done and what I've done with my organizations and my companies it's

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always been there the team stuff has always been there the military stuff has always been there

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I love cooking I feel like that's a very creative cathartic outlet for me too um and then you know

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with the Savini school makeup effect stuff obviously that was a big part of my life

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and then the sports psych stuff like the performance stuff how do we take this and you

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know make this brain heart connection and be able to perform under these high tempo you know kind of

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crazy situations that sometimes we find ourselves in and you know you and I've had that conversation

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like as a firefighter and our military professionals and law enforcement like you never know

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what that situation is going to be and if you're trained for it um probably going to be better off

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and you know the outcome might not be exactly what you want but at least you've set your goals

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your system up for you know maybe what's to come so I think everything kind of culminated into where

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we are today. How hard was it to break into that industry you had the school under your belt was it

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respected enough qualification that you were kind of welcomed or did you have the challenges that

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other people in the acting world have when they moved to LA? It was a little bit of this both

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right I um I'm like a pit bull and I tell everybody like I'll talk to a tree and try to get a

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conversation out of it because I just I feel so connected to this experience and what it is and

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people and places and things so I but even before I went to Savini school I started you know messaging

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people however that was back then I guess it was through email I don't even think there was text

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back then but you know I would reach out to people and ask questions and I remember even before I

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went to Savini's uh I reached out to Greg Nicotero at KMB through email and I think I might have called

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him a couple times but Greg's the executive producer now walking dead extremely successful

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makeup effect shop owner extremely successful director producer um but I reached out to Greg

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all those years ago and he and I had a conversation and I remember him saying

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the biggest thing for you to do is to do your training then get out here like you're not going

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to be able to do this where you are like you you got to make the move so again it was always

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imprinted with that hero's journey piece right like you have to say yes and then choose the

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adventure to move across the country and start something that you really have no idea what's

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going to happen um at the end of the day so you know being a pit bull and talking to people and

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being um very motivated to make it in the industry I feel like I set myself up for

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better success because I was asking a lot of questions and met a lot of people

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and I mean you know your network is gold right like the people that you know are going to tell

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the people that they know and it just starts kind of cycling right so when I got out there I had

389
00:40:56,240 --> 00:41:03,120
called the shops they knew who I was I had my portfolio and I landed and a week later I was in

390
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:09,200
the shops you know presenting to them my portfolio talking to them about my history and all that kind

391
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,440
of stuff and I think the the other thing that helped too was that I was a little bit older

392
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:19,680
um when I started uh because a lot of the people that kind of get into makeup effects it's it's

393
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,680
you know straight out of high school or early college and they just go out there and try to

394
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:30,960
to do it but I I had a mission and I felt like you know I had set myself up to make it but it was

395
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:37,280
difficult like the learning the industry you know as you said with the actors and and what they go

396
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:42,640
through with you know all of the auditions and stuff like that and you know waiting tables

397
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:48,800
waiting to get that big break makeup effects a little bit different because there are a few

398
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:54,480
shops in the industry um larger shops and smaller shops but you always wanted to work at the larger

399
00:41:54,480 --> 00:42:00,960
shop because you know pay was better bigger films whatever um and I was fortunate like I was fortunate

400
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:08,720
to meet a lot of those people early and then my network just saw to it that I stay busy um and

401
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:13,920
you know it you trial by fire like you get out there and you think you know what you know and

402
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:19,760
then you start learning that oh you know what I learned back then like it gave me a really good

403
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:26,880
foundation but wow like the learning curve is very steep again so it was being open to that like

404
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:32,800
being open to learning about you know new materials new stuff meeting new people and just

405
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:38,320
having conversations with people um and being open to those conversations I think led to me

406
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:48,160
being pretty successful um so what about stories from your career that were memorable because I

407
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,040
wouldn't say that what were the biggest films because they might have been really boring and

408
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:56,640
shit to work on so what are some of the the biggest stories of your time in in the special effects

409
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:04,000
world man I it's interesting James because when I sit here and think about it even now

410
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:09,840
you know you close your eyes for a second you're like man the ones that affected me were

411
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:18,560
connected to what I feel like my history was it kind of brought me forward to those experiences

412
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:24,960
but also what we're doing now so we we worked on Lone Survivor um the Marcus Luttrell story

413
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:32,320
and I had an opportunity to kind of lead the life cast on Mark Wahlberg and a few of the other actors

414
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:38,000
that were in the movie and then you know we made all of the scars and all of the stuff that happens

415
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:46,720
to them throughout that whole film and knowing that Marcus Luttrell story knowing my connection

416
00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:54,080
to Chris Kyle and starting the non-profit that I started years ago that film affected me big time

417
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:59,440
working on it in that way not just because of what we were bringing to it but because of the

418
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:05,760
kind of energy spirit attachment that I had to it previous because I had read that book and kind of

419
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:12,240
started uh Crusades 22 years before and then when I found out that we got Lone Survivor I was like

420
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:18,400
oh man like this this is going to be special and then one of the shop owners walked up to me and

421
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:24,640
he's like hey I want you to lead up all the life casting sessions on the actors and it just stuff

422
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:29,840
like that doesn't happen you know unless it's it's in the zeitgeist right like something's going on

423
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:36,800
to lead you there but you got to say yes to this stuff right so that Banner Brothers um we worked

424
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,800
on the Pacific we didn't work on Banner Brothers that was a little bit before my time but the

425
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:46,720
Pacific which was based on the Pacific campaign of our Marines in World War II so that was

426
00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:52,880
um a pretty awesome thing to work on um there's so many and then you know big thing that people

427
00:44:52,880 --> 00:45:00,080
will know now is that you know I had an opportunity to step in to play in a role in The Walking Dead

428
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:07,360
which was this the bloated well walker from season two and that story is crazy too because

429
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:13,280
Greg and I had gotten to know each other really well at that time and one of our other um

430
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:18,800
sculptors was supposed to do the role because he was the you know the body type that they wanted

431
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,960
they were going to make him into this big fat dude and it was going to work out um to where he

432
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:28,720
could wear the suit and whatever but he got he has crones and he had a flare up of his crones

433
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:35,200
so Greg was like well shit you know Hiller's in really good shape um we'll ask him to do it so he

434
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:39,200
came up to me in the mold shop one day and he's like hey I got a question come over here so he

435
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:43,520
you know took me over into the corner I'm like oh man what's going on he's like how would you like

436
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:49,680
to play one of the zombies in The Walking Dead for this upcoming up season I was like yeah I mean

437
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:55,200
what do I got to do so they had already life casted Jeremy kind of full body and he's like

438
00:45:55,200 --> 00:46:00,800
Jeremy you know is about your size so we're just gonna sculpt it on those forms but we want you to

439
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:09,280
go out to you know the hot hot hot atmosphere of Petrie City Georgia and play the well walker and

440
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:17,760
I was like okay so it was it was the most exciting most stressful time of my life and it's just one

441
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:24,240
of those things that you look back on and people recognize it and they you know are excited by it

442
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:30,640
and I look at it as what an amazing adventure that it was but it also kind of it was a very

443
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:36,160
it was the next step to the next thing right I mean I've got stuff you know all over my walls

444
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:40,480
some of that stuff though you know just the memories of it all but yeah I think that you

445
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:48,160
know makeup effects led me to a lot of really cool things but it also has led me to kind of rethink

446
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:54,000
what we do as a as an organization to help people that might be going through a bunch of stuff

447
00:46:54,000 --> 00:47:00,480
in life so you know it's funny it's almost come full circle because I kind of forgot about it

448
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:06,160
years ago when we started Metasphere and then it just it came back around about a year ago and

449
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:12,560
it's been a very interesting connect point right within the journey of this whole thing.

450
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:18,800
Amazing I'm glad I asked that question when you said Walking Dead immediately I'm sure you've

451
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:23,760
seen it there was a video that was going around a while ago and it was the auditions for Zodiac

452
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:28,880
or Zombies for Walking Dead one of the funniest things I've ever seen not mocking anyone there

453
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:33,120
they are doing a good job playing zombies but without the makeup one of the funniest things

454
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:38,880
I've ever seen. Well it's funny that because we were out there we were shooting the whole

455
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:44,480
Wellwalker scene and there was a bar that we would go to at night after we had all wrapped and the

456
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:52,240
town knew that we were there and Greg would do auditions at the bar so people would come in

457
00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:56,800
and we would be sitting around having dinner they'd be having drinks and you know people would

458
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:01,360
walk in like doing their best zombie and they walk up to Greg and they're what do you think

459
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,520
was that cool and he's like I don't know I gotta see it again so it was almost like you know

460
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:10,400
walking the runway like people would clear out in the bar and people would kind of do their best

461
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:15,360
zombie walk and make the sounds and all that stuff and that's where we found a lot of the extras

462
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:22,160
you know Greg's like hey call production and get yourself set up and I mean you've seen the show

463
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:27,920
like all the extras that were needed a lot of them came through you know that bar that you know on

464
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:32,880
many many nights and Greg was like yep here's the number call them and get yourself involved

465
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:39,360
so yeah it's super cool just super cool. So I got another interesting perspective for you when I was

466
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:44,960
in my teens same exact thing you know arm full of videos and back then it was like oh do I do

467
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:50,400
VHS do I do beat em axe we had quite the selection back then and beat em axe was my dad was like this

468
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:55,440
is gonna be the future and then it failed oh yeah two years later but anyway but I got into

469
00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:00,480
the horror movies and really like I mean I love the zombie movies film but also the the violent

470
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:07,440
slasher films and I remember literally one day just having this epiphany going and then I was

471
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:15,840
probably I'm guessing 18 19 by this point going what the fuck am I doing how am I being entertained

472
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,640
by people being tortured and mutilated and I always have this conversation because I switched

473
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:25,280
the complete other way and then then you put a uniform on you see horrible shit for real

474
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,720
and I've I it's very rare that I meet someone who was in military or first responder who really

475
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:36,640
likes slasher movies now ghost movies and I love the Japanese you know the the grudge and all those

476
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:43,200
are phenomenal but the you know oh let me you know let me just go and decompress for a bit while

477
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:50,000
watching a cabin full of teenagers you know raped and murdered that's not or sewn ass to mouth and

478
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:56,000
then yeah whatever it is right yeah good human centipede oh my god so what is your perception

479
00:49:56,000 --> 00:50:02,560
of that because when you take a step back you're like how the hell did we get to the point where

480
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:08,080
after a hard day at work you want to unwind watching that stuff psychologically it's different

481
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:14,240
than fairy tales and monsters and witches and ghoulies you know that's rape torture murder

482
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:23,600
so what's your perspective of that yeah I years ago I was all about you know anything slasher

483
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:28,400
you know anything and again I think it's just the cathartic nature of it because we all carry

484
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:35,360
that shadow side of us and I think that to satiate that with something that's you know

485
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:41,760
innocent enough like watching the slasher film you know feed that thing a little bit so it doesn't

486
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:48,880
come out in all these other ways right like let's not beat our spouse let's not you know get in the

487
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:55,200
drugs let's not go do that because you know I know a lot of us have had those thoughts in our brain

488
00:50:55,200 --> 00:51:00,960
where we're like I could go you know I'm angry enough right now where I could do some damage

489
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:08,640
so I think cathartically watching that stuff and again believe what you believe on the psychology

490
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:17,520
spectrum but for me it became that like I'm giving this shadow piece of me something that they need

491
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:24,320
right now so I don't act it out you know as a human because I saw like I saw my stepdad who would

492
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:30,240
drink and that monster would come out and you know it's it's fisticuffs it's it's all of that

493
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:36,560
physical you know battery kind of activity that was going on and I didn't want to go there like I

494
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:43,440
just I have not not been a violent person again in this lifetime I tend to be more compassionate

495
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:49,840
and I'll you know hug anybody and everybody so I'm kind of that guy which is another interesting

496
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:57,920
kind of dichotomy too because I do enjoy my horror films but you know years ago too I started to kind

497
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:06,160
of pivot from the slasher you know all that stuff to more of kind of the more psychological based

498
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:14,960
stuff like the Hannibal Lecter stuff and like the more kind of visceral stuff like you got to think

499
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:19,840
about it like what really is going on and come more the specter spooky gooey stuff you were talking

500
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:28,320
about but I do think that again as we begin to kind of see where the wraparound of all of my

501
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:35,360
experience has been I came from where I came from as a young person I spent a lot of time in the

502
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:42,080
woods I spent a lot of time fighting with a stepdad I spent a lot of time trying to sort out like

503
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:52,320
what life is about found makeup effects after makeup effects getting out to LA had this amazing

504
00:52:53,360 --> 00:53:01,200
connected profound experience where I started a non-profit called Crusades 22 because I found

505
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:07,120
out that Chris Kyle had gotten killed and and James I again things happening for a reason

506
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:14,640
for a reason I had closed American Sniper on a Sunday afternoon texted my girlfriend at the time

507
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:19,360
who owned a flower shop down in Santa Monica said hey I'm gonna come down and see you in the morning

508
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:26,480
but I also want to sit down and see if I can find Chris and his contact information because I'd like

509
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:31,280
to have him be a part of this television show that I was creating at the time and the show was called

510
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:38,960
Endurance Warriors and it was predicated on the fact that we as humans hang all of these boundaries

511
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:45,760
and borders on ourselves and this show was about how we as humans can do so much more than we ever

512
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:51,360
thought we could mentally emotionally intellectually physically all the things so I felt Chris might be

513
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:56,480
a really good kind of co-host or a mentor or somebody so I want to reach out and just see

514
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:02,880
what his availability was so long story short got there that morning flipped open my laptop typed in

515
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:09,760
you know Chris Kyle found out that he had Craft International which was a training group that he

516
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:16,240
had put together for law enforcement and military for like pretty high-end tempo tactical stuff

517
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:23,920
clicked the button for the web page and his death notice came up he had just been killed that day

518
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:30,640
prior as I closed the book on American sniper fell apart like I had known I do my entire life I get

519
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:36,960
the chills thinking about it I'm wearing a shirt today it's crazy that I made a phone call to Don

520
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:43,440
Mann Don Mann picked up the phone who I had known for years he's like I know why you're calling me

521
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:48,160
what do you want to do and I was like I don't know what to do like I've been out here in LA doing

522
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:53,760
makeup effects I have got an adventure racing background I love the community because we race

523
00:54:53,760 --> 00:55:00,000
with a lot of special ops men and women because you know getting out and wanting to do something

524
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,760
physically challenging they would get into adventure races so I met the community fell in

525
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:10,800
love with them so Don said I suggest we start a non-profit so we did and at the times it was

526
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:16,720
called Kyle's Crusades we transitioned it about a year later to Crusades 22 and we just started

527
00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:23,680
doing the work working with special operators and their families so I was doing that along with

528
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:29,600
makeup effects and everything just started doing this I mean it's just started dovetailing into

529
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:35,440
itself right because as I was doing makeup effects and kind of going through that process of

530
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:42,240
enjoying horror and making horror and doing effects and all that stuff I would go home at night

531
00:55:42,240 --> 00:55:49,520
and I would do sessions with somebody who had been in combat and you know lost a friend or more

532
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:55,360
and was now having trouble in their marriage because they couldn't reconnect back into that

533
00:55:55,360 --> 00:56:03,280
having had the experiences that they had right so it was really interesting to kind of travel

534
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:12,400
both of those lanes and then when we got into the whole COVID thing about two years prior

535
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:19,040
as as Crusades 22 we started getting all of these questions asked to us about you know how do we

536
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:26,320
know that what you guys are doing is effective because we were doing yoga we were doing

537
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:32,160
resiliency training with people we were just doing kind of talk therapy with people and just

538
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:40,880
really trying to kind of tap them back into what their purpose was post service from military so

539
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:45,440
really doing a lot of deep dive into exactly the stuff that you and I have been talking about today

540
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:50,880
is what was your background and how were you kind of what was your nature nurture what was your

541
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:56,480
upbringing what was all that stuff and then asking these very pointed compassionate questions to help

542
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:02,400
that person start to kind of recalibrate what was going on up here but also you know kind of

543
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:08,400
to re-tap back into your heart space and all that stuff and we didn't have any quantifiable

544
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:16,800
qualifiable information we were just doing the work so again long story short COVID happened and

545
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:23,920
we having had these questions asked to us when COVID hit you know all of our donations just

546
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:27,840
you know tanked and we had to really think about what we were going to do as an organization

547
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:32,160
to kind of pivot or if we were just going to fold it up and do something different

548
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:38,880
so I got with my whole team and we we decided to create a for-profit organization which became

549
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:46,160
Metasphere and what we did with that was brought in another group that we now work with called

550
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:53,040
Between MD and they have a data package that we've loaded into our database and we've

551
00:57:53,040 --> 00:58:00,400
loaded into the back end of everything we do and that data package is anything and everything that

552
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:07,920
we could bring in for biometric information health care information we're loading up a genetics and

553
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:14,240
genetics into it there's qualifiers and questionnaires in there is just kind of a starting

554
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:20,560
point to start working with people so we started grabbing data and started seeing kind of what the

555
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:29,440
process was with how do we capture this data and then feed it back into these actionable long-term

556
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:35,440
feedback loops for these individuals to show them that the things that we're doing and the things

557
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:40,400
that we're engaging in is actually making a difference and and then being able to track

558
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:47,520
that stuff right so that became how Metasphere kind of started getting its legs under it but

559
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:54,320
but it's always been you know these intermittent connections if not you know long-term connections

560
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:59,840
to all the other things makeup effects and creativity and all that other stuff that kind

561
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:07,360
of led us where we are today it's been awesome to see it build. So you were telling me about

562
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:13,840
this incredible fusion between the makeup effects world that you came from and the mental health

563
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:19,280
world. I know Daniel Sandal who's on the show years ago now probably he's probably one of my

564
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:25,520
first guests for the first year. I mean he anyone who who is in the fire service you're either

565
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:30,480
looking at Paul Combs art who's the cartoonist or you're looking at Dan's pictures and you know

566
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:34,880
that there's always going to be that one of at the back of the ambulance you know and the paramedic

567
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:39,600
looking broken-hearted and then there's the ghost of the person they try to save you know just so

568
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:44,720
so powerful but then also there's the demons there's the people that plague some of our men

569
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:53,360
and women in uniform. So walk me through how you began to take your skill set and apply it as a tool

570
00:59:54,080 --> 01:00:01,040
into not overcoming but but trying to go through that trauma and forge post-traumatic growth.

571
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:10,320
Yeah yeah so I think it starts with how we begin how we began to build Metasphere and what all the

572
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:19,120
ethos was behind it because we knew that we had to start telling a narrative not only for us but we

573
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:25,360
had to help other people tell their own narrative because sometimes we get hung up in the story that

574
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:29,600
we tell ourselves and it could be a false narrative right like we're telling ourselves

575
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:35,040
these things about ourselves that we've been imprinted with through you know our parents

576
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:42,400
or our upbringing or society or whatever and the story became really powerful for us for

577
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:49,600
individuals and also cohorts of people because when you look at military background when you

578
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:55,680
look at fire when you look at law enforcement each cohort has a different thing but they're also very

579
01:00:55,680 --> 01:01:02,560
similar so hero's journey became one of the main pillars that we were looking at for this kind of

580
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:09,200
metamorphosis activity that we were going to create warrior culture became another component

581
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:15,840
of the foundation and then like universal connectedness like how we are all connected as

582
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:21,440
humans but also what our connection is to the larger universe and energy and all that stuff.

583
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:29,920
So with those three things we kind of broke all that down and these five devices that we believe in

584
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:40,960
one is do hard stuff and be kind when you do it so in life you know as as buddhism says

585
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:47,280
it's a struggle it's a process it's chaos and there's also paths out of that chaos so how do

586
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:52,480
we learn that stuff but you got to do the hard things in order to learn lessons right and when

587
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:58,320
you're doing that hard stuff be a good human be compassionate to people love people be kind to

588
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:04,640
people so that was number one the second one was how do we optimize our sleep efficiency and our

589
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:09,280
rest and recovery because a lot of us are running around like a chicken with their heads cut off and

590
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:15,360
especially with like you guys in fire service and on shift work you know what a huge thing you got

591
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:22,240
to work on to try to figure out where my recovery where my sleep is the other one was physicality

592
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:29,280
and physicality being how you move your body but also the physicality of emotions and the physicality

593
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:37,600
of intellectualizing things and spiritualism and intellectual kind of thought about uh emotional

594
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:43,600
regulation and all those things because all of that comes from physical space right like if you're

595
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:49,520
going to try to regulate your emotions physically get on a meditation mat and breathe and do some

596
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:56,240
meditation so that became part of looking at us as a whole human the other thing that we started

597
01:02:56,240 --> 01:03:02,080
looking at too was what people are eating and what they're putting in their faces hydration wise so

598
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:07,520
one of the o2x lessons that i learned you know many years ago uh what you're eating and what

599
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:14,480
you're drinking and then how we're imprinted into our tribe and our community right like what's that

600
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:20,880
mean for us like who are we surrounding ourselves with um that are support systems for us but we

601
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:27,360
also reciprocate that into all of it and then the other thing that we started really looking at was

602
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:34,720
what's the what's the ugly what's the stuff that we're not talking about that is locked in there

603
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:41,040
the shadow the inner demon and how do we exercise that how do we get that out of someone

604
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:46,080
via all of these different you know practical things that we're going to be doing with them

605
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:55,440
so we started to really kind of bring in the idea of how do we bring makeup effects into this

606
01:03:56,080 --> 01:04:02,400
and and create something with an individual that engages them in the

607
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:10,160
uh opening kind of design process and the creation of having the opportunity to see

608
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:17,440
their shadow and their inner demon like what how do you do that so there's a process that we came

609
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:22,320
up with and it takes i mean and and you know another thing that we think about too that i

610
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:30,000
think we bring to the table that's a little bit different is challenging people to know that the

611
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:36,560
process is the process and practice is needed and that in order for you to get from point a to point

612
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:42,880
b it might take you four weeks it might take you six weeks it's not going to be you take the magic

613
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:50,880
pill and everything changes it's work right so we've come up with a system where we engage people in

614
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:58,400
their intakes we go through this process of hero's journey heroine's journey we tap them into

615
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:04,720
them into their own side of warrior culture from wherever they come from we talk to them about

616
01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:10,880
universal connectedness and path and purpose and all those things we imprint into them some of the

617
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:17,360
lessons that we teach on some of those five key things and then we start to talk about now that

618
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:23,920
we've gotten you to this point what's the next phase what's the next paragraph that you would

619
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:30,160
write for the next chapter of your life right so really beginning to kind of engage in the journey

620
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:36,800
again and then at the end of all of that beginning to ask them what is the what's that thing or those

621
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:43,280
things that you are carrying with you that you would consider shadow that you would consider

622
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:48,800
something that's this inner demon that is holding you back from being able to kind of obtain

623
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:53,840
all of the things that you you know feel like are impossible because you just you're tethered to this

624
01:05:53,840 --> 01:06:00,720
stuff so we sit down with them when we start to create what it looks like for them on them

625
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:10,240
through a makeup effect so for instance walking someone through a design process where

626
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:18,000
they're in a meditation they're being led through this guided journey and the prompts are how does

627
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:25,040
how does this shadow how does this inner demon manifest onto your body onto your face what does

628
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:30,400
it do to change your musculature what does it do to make you look differently as a human

629
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:36,800
are you a demon are you this are you that you start asking these questions and with them you

630
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:44,320
start to design what that look is and the idea is is that we take the person and we then transform

631
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:51,680
them through makeup effects into that shadow or that demon so we go through a whole design process

632
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:57,360
i and my team go through the sculpting the mold making process generating the prosthetics

633
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:04,560
and then we show up at the person's place very very ceremonial there's a fire pit burning

634
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:10,560
someplace very near we go through kind of the process of what this means and why we're doing

635
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:15,680
this having had you know six weeks or eight weeks of lead up to this so they know what they're

636
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:20,880
getting into like they know what's coming mirror comes in and we have them look at themselves in

637
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:28,640
the mirror we go through some q a with them then uh dear friend of mine mike platt uh who is a

638
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:36,960
neuroscientist at worton uh he's come up with a device it's called cogware and it's a qualitative

639
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:42,560
eeg device tracker so we put that on them and we start seeing kind of what's going on with their

640
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:49,120
brain waves and their brain patterns so we do that when they're in the mirror mirror goes away device

641
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:57,280
comes off makeup effects go on um and then once the makeup effects are on mirror comes back in

642
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:02,400
cogware goes back on and we start to see that there are significant changes in

643
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:09,360
that person and their personality because now they're presenting as the demon or the inner demon

644
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:18,000
or the shadow or whatever it is there's another interaction that we have and then we begin to your

645
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:23,440
point at the beginning of this conversation we start shedding the skin so as a makeup effects

646
01:08:23,440 --> 01:08:29,840
artist you take the makeup off of the person so as we do that these giant pieces of skin are coming

647
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:36,240
off and we're throwing them into the fire so we're shedding the skin of this demon shedding the skin

648
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:43,360
of that you know inner shadow and we're burning it away so ceremoniously using fire to cleanse

649
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:50,320
and then we get them all cleaned up and we then we begin kind of the process of now that you've

650
01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:55,920
gone through this very cathartic you know stepped into this supreme ordeal walk through that

651
01:08:55,920 --> 01:09:02,880
threshold you got through that shadow piece you you challenged and persevered over the inner demon

652
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:08,800
now we can begin to kind of point you in the direction of what's the inner heroine now what's

653
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:14,880
the inner hero what's the next part of the journey where are we going right like and it and it opens

654
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:24,240
it up to this giant thing where it's almost that i always atone it to remember the construct in the

655
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:29,360
matrix that big white room and they can call in whatever they want to call in that's basically

656
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:35,280
what we're creating throughout this entire process is that now anything and everything can be created

657
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:40,880
in your own personal unique construct now that you've shed some of that stuff that was holding

658
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:48,320
you back and then we start doing the work for that purpose so it's it's been a profound experience

659
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:54,480
for a bunch of people that we've done it with um we're in the design phases with some people we've

660
01:09:54,480 --> 01:10:00,880
done the entire process with people we're in the opening stages with some people um and it's it's

661
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:07,600
seeing kind of what the variances of each person's experience are as they start going through

662
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:13,440
this specific part of the process it's it's been powerful it's been super super powerful for people

663
01:10:13,440 --> 01:10:20,480
and talk to me about the the fusion you have with Daniel Sandow then so Dan and I of course I

664
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:27,120
reached out to Dan a few years back and started to utilize some of his images on some of our

665
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:32,880
packets and stuff because I felt that the imagery and the artwork that he brought the creativeness

666
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:39,840
right of taking post-traumatic stress and you know that inner demon and that shadow and presented it

667
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:45,840
in these amazing pieces of artwork it affected me deeply I knew that it affected a bunch of people

668
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:50,720
that I knew deeply so I reached out and asked him how we could you know start to collaborate

669
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:56,800
so he and I have known each other for many years and then just a few months ago I reached out and

670
01:10:56,800 --> 01:11:04,000
I'm like hey um I saw one of his the demon um standing over I think it was an EMS worker but

671
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:06,960
it was the demon and I was like man this would be a really cool

672
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:11,680
makeup effect to do on someone so I reached out to Dan and we started having this conversation

673
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:20,080
so we're going to probably start doing um based upon some of his artwork uh makeup effects that

674
01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:26,320
will be physical representations of the artwork that he's created and then through his training

675
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:32,880
now that he's doing because he's going out and getting his um I think he's getting his certificate

676
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:38,320
in um psychology I can't remember exactly what it is but he's going to be a therapist for

677
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:43,040
you know folks that have gone through all kind of different types of trauma so we're going to start

678
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:48,320
working together to take this piece of what we do at Metasphere and kind of imprint it into what

679
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:53,680
he's going to be doing you know kind of in his future as well um so it's been a really cool way

680
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:58,960
to start to integrate and collaborate with him because it just comes from

681
01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:06,960
this very creative very open space of art and uh you know it's very indicative of

682
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:13,840
um and pretty similar to um you know Nyko and how they're doing kind of the paper mache masks

683
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:21,200
yes so it's it's very very much that concept but I was talking to Eric Potter at two you and I

684
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:25,440
talked about Eric quite a bit um Eric's become a really good friend of mine and he's been a

685
01:12:25,440 --> 01:12:30,480
really good friend of mine too and he was talking about knowing the lady that started that whole

686
01:12:31,440 --> 01:12:38,000
premise of doing these masks and the masks that we wear and having that be kind of an art based

687
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:44,800
therapeutic thing that we can do um with our special operators and athletes that they can

688
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:51,040
get out that stuff and build this mask that represents their feelings and their emotions

689
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:56,880
and the pain and the triggers and the traumas and all that stuff so as Eric and I have been

690
01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:02,960
kind of peeling this back too for this face-to-face idea uh he's going to be coming on and helping us

691
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:08,960
kind of work through a lot of the kind of back-end stuff um that might be happening with people as

692
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:13,280
they go through this because you know we're one group but we also know we don't have all the

693
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:18,320
answers and can't provide all the support but we do have people around us that are going to be

694
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:22,880
able to help us with the support but we do have people around us that can and they're really good

695
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:31,840
at what they do um so side note on Eric too uh Eric and I met a few years back at an event in LA

696
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:39,920
and I won't get into the minutiae of the story but um found out that Eric did Chris Kyle's debrief

697
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:46,800
when he came back from having to do some pretty horrid stuff uh over in you know combat and

698
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:53,360
I found out Eric found out I had a non-profit that was connected to Chris and I had built it

699
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:58,320
because I had heard of Chris's passing found out that Eric had worked with Chris in this amazing

700
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:04,000
capacity with the SEAL teams and then we just you know immediately had this bond and we've been

701
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:09,120
doing some work and kind of collaborating on stuff ever since so again it's just universal

702
01:14:09,120 --> 01:14:14,400
connected this right like who knew that I was going to walk into this restaurant uh in this one

703
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:19,360
room where there was three people sitting and Eric and I were going to be able to have this dialogue

704
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:26,240
it just it doesn't happen unless it's supposed to happen right and I am a absolute firm believer in

705
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:31,760
things happening for a reason and and again you and I coming into you know knowing each other

706
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:37,600
through O2X and now having this conversation uh it's it's very very powerful for me and I don't

707
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:42,800
you know take it lightly that the conversation that we're having hopefully will you know affect

708
01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:48,000
some other people out there and we can start helping bigger greater good right that's the

709
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:53,040
whole point absolutely yeah Eric the conversation with Eric was incredible you know the psychologist

710
01:14:53,040 --> 01:14:58,480
for a lot of the SEALs and he also did uh Marcus Luttrell's debrief after as well so you know and

711
01:14:58,480 --> 01:15:03,760
we didn't even go into that because again not only is it the SEALs it's also you know one man's

712
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:09,360
personal you know struggles so it's none of none of our business anyway but what we did talk about

713
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:16,320
was absolutely phenomenal so yeah amazing now just before we kind of transition some closing questions

714
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:20,800
you know you've got this incredible concept um you know the shadow self obviously is real you look at

715
01:15:20,800 --> 01:15:26,240
any any you know kind of spiritual philosophy at all that's always present you know whether it's

716
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:32,320
the devil or the shadow side or whatever they want to label it um talk to me about some of the

717
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:37,600
success stories that you've had what what I think is so important about the mental health conversation

718
01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:42,720
firstly is infusing hope I think the post-traumatic growth conversation is what we all need to be

719
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:47,200
having now that you are a more resilient person on the other side of this struggle

720
01:15:47,920 --> 01:15:53,040
the other side is the toolbox I think you know I had I had someone I never named names but I had

721
01:15:53,040 --> 01:15:59,520
a person on the show who swore blindly that their method worked on everyone they said everyone and

722
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:03,440
I disagree I'm sorry but I think that's bullshit there's no nutrition that works for everyone

723
01:16:03,440 --> 01:16:07,280
there's no exercise plan that works for everyone you know and it's the same thing that's happening

724
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:13,840
with mental health but if it's one of the tools in a large toolbox that is phenomenal you know it

725
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:19,280
could be EMDR it could be equine therapy it could be psychedelics and now I'd never heard of this

726
01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:25,680
until you came to you know it came to me when you had this most recent conversation yeah so talk to

727
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:29,440
me about some of the experiences that you've witnessed or some of the stories that you heard

728
01:16:29,440 --> 01:16:35,040
going through this particular modality yeah and I'm glad you brought that up too because

729
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:43,280
as a organization our entire you know one pillar of the ethos is is that it's targeted for individuals

730
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:49,440
right like it's not a one-stop-shop we don't know all the answers if we don't know an answer to

731
01:16:49,440 --> 01:16:54,160
something we're going to find it out we're going to put that in front of a person right but I think

732
01:16:54,160 --> 01:17:01,040
what we did do was peel it back enough to know that some of the pillars some of the philosophy

733
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:08,400
some of the psychology some of the creativeness absolute vulnerability absolute hope absolute

734
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:15,760
trust like all those things became our anchor points for what we were doing and then once this

735
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:24,000
makeup effect idea started to happen it brought in all of that but it was also very individualized

736
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:31,360
per each of the people that we were doing it with right you know and and I've talked to some

737
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:38,880
people about it and they shrugged it off because it that's too heavy like that for me like you know

738
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:44,480
got to take a knee on that because that's way too far in the deep end but for the people that have

739
01:17:45,440 --> 01:17:51,280
had interaction with shadow side and inner demon through makeup effects

740
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:58,640
I can't even put it to words like there's tears there's hugs there's compassion there's thanks

741
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:07,280
there's gratitude there's knowing that part of that thing that they were carrying be it shadow

742
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:15,760
or trauma or triggering or that combat experience that they had where you know I'm going to say it

743
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:23,440
like they wore a friend because of an ied and you know getting through all of that crap that you

744
01:18:23,440 --> 01:18:29,200
carry because of the moral injury or the vision that you see every night before you go to bed or

745
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:38,400
whatever it was unlocking that box and allowing that stuff to come out interact with it right and

746
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:45,040
integrate the things that make sense and integrate the lessons sell them out and then you can get

747
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:50,400
to celebrate the fact that you've gone through this and this made you who you are right now today

748
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:58,080
and then being okay with the fact that you can also jettison and let go of the stuff that doesn't

749
01:18:58,080 --> 01:19:04,640
serve you and your bigger purpose anymore that for a lot of the folks that we work with has been kind

750
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:12,000
of the the profound shifting of the paradigm for them because they felt like they had to carry

751
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:19,920
what it was like I feel morally injured and I feel like I'm here and this person isn't because of

752
01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:26,400
you know enter all of the reasons why but now having gone through the process of

753
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:36,640
processing through all of the stuff the emotions the triggers the traumas the the mental aspect

754
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:42,160
of how you talk to yourself about all these things shifting the narratives breaking down the

755
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:50,160
paradigms recoding the system a little bit and then having gone through this very creative very

756
01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:57,520
what's the word I'm looking for I mean it profound keeps coming up but I think that it's more

757
01:19:57,680 --> 01:20:04,800
it's bigger than that it's it's the makeup effect gives you the opportunity to see something that

758
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:10,320
something that you know is inside of you but you just never could put your finger on what it was

759
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:18,000
and then now that you've had this conversation of this thing presents this to me and you see it

760
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:24,720
in the mirror dude people have been in makeup and they're bawling crying because they now can put a

761
01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:30,880
label in a in an image to it but they also know as we kind of go back into the conversation a little

762
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:37,840
bit this is not your label this is not who you are right this is a piece this is an aspect of it

763
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:43,680
and this is something that we're now going to take and ask what's the lesson what's the integration

764
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:48,560
like much like you would do if you're doing plant medicine much like you would if you're going to

765
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:52,880
any psychologist or psychologist that's worth their you know paying that they're writing notes

766
01:20:52,880 --> 01:21:01,360
with you have to integrate a lesson then it's okay telling people James that it's okay to let go of

767
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:09,600
some of this stuff those words hit people like a ton of bricks because they've never ever gone

768
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:15,760
through the process of getting to this and then getting to the point where you put your arms around

769
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:22,000
him you're like it's okay like let go all of that other stuff we've already done the integration

770
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:27,440
here you've done the work you know you you've lived that part now we're on to the next phase

771
01:21:27,440 --> 01:21:36,480
right and oh and and allowing them through hero's journey uh kind of framework blast that portal open

772
01:21:36,480 --> 01:21:42,800
blast that threshold open here we are now here's the hero here's the heroine we're we're facing

773
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:52,080
forward right um so that for me has been so impactful as you know a group that's kind of

774
01:21:52,080 --> 01:21:59,120
come into doing this because we know that this is something that is different enough

775
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:05,120
kind of breaks down the paradigm a little bit but it's also one of those things too where

776
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:12,000
people talk about thinking out of the box a lot like we exploded the box there is no box

777
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:18,800
right like something like this you can't put it in that and try to you know make it do what you want

778
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:25,360
it to do like it has a will and a life of its own um and you gotta you gotta be okay with it you gotta

779
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:31,920
be okay with it creating itself and giving it breath and life so it's it's been a really good

780
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:37,120
process for the people that we've done it with but it's also been a really good process for us

781
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:43,760
you know like this has been a really cathartic thing to kind of figure out who we are like what

782
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:50,240
are we doing what's the main thing that we can bring to you know the mental health space and

783
01:22:50,240 --> 01:22:55,680
helping people move through trauma and trigger and all that stuff and do it in a way where we know

784
01:22:56,320 --> 01:23:02,640
we're bringing something that we feel is for the purposes of what we do effective and efficient

785
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:10,800
and does it in a way where we know that we also have connection to that person that you know I

786
01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:16,000
get text messages daily you know and it's it's gratitude and it's thanks and it's hey just want

787
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:20,960
to see how you're doing and you know it creates the team and the tribe and they know that they have

788
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:25,760
a group of people that aren't just the groups it's like oh hey go do this and then they go away

789
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:30,960
you know like we we want to win bed and then that's kind of the idea of this whole thing

790
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:35,920
is that the embedding nature of what we do you have to do it like that's the way that you're

791
01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:42,480
going to start creating change and breaking down the current systems and kind of relaunching

792
01:23:42,480 --> 01:23:47,600
and recoding everything that we're doing right so it's it's been good it's been a really really

793
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:53,840
good process it sounds amazing and it's again so so out of the box I mean it really is but that's

794
01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:58,080
what we need you know there's this a lot of the issues that you see in the fire services because

795
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:03,280
we've always done it the same way you know so we need the box breakers of the world absolutely

796
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:08,960
absolutely one little tangent before we go to closing questions yeah it's been interesting

797
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:15,840
from the actor's perspective the impact of ai and cgi on their you know their space now a lot of them

798
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:21,920
are doing green screen acting now I just had Captain Dale Dion recently in the masters of the air

799
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:26,160
and you know the set apparently was like this this all these real b

800
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:32,320
I think it was b52s with screens all the way around so they were actually immersed in you know

801
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:35,920
screens like they were seeing things but a lot of these guys got to give them credit where they're

802
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:41,040
acting in front of a giant screen that's just green pretending to be you know running from

803
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:45,840
whatever but also you hear about the intellectual property now you know oh they can literally

804
01:24:45,840 --> 01:24:51,680
do one take with me and then they'll get that version of me to do other things and you know that

805
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:58,000
creatively obviously you know that there's an ethical issue there too yeah what about your world

806
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:03,600
as cgi has got better and better and better has it threatened the makeup artist or is there still

807
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:12,000
a kind of fusion of the two skills together it's always for me anyway and other people may think

808
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:19,520
differently but we started having this conversation James years ago like we saw that during the

809
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:26,080
years ago like we saw that Jurassic Park was coming we saw that you know there were cg dinosaurs

810
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:34,000
but you know at stands they also made a giant full-size Tyrannosaurus Rex they made full

811
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:39,760
walk-around velociraptors right like it was always the physical imprint because the actors would

812
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:45,920
always say I don't want to act with a tennis ball like I need something in front of me that I can

813
01:25:45,920 --> 01:25:52,800
interact with and have this you know ongoing thing with as we film this so it's always been there as

814
01:25:52,800 --> 01:25:57,920
like you know we're gonna makeup effects is gonna go away because of cgi and all that stuff and it

815
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:04,400
just it never has and I don't think it ever will because there's actors out there I'll use Gary

816
01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:10,960
Olma as an example one of my really good friends in life Brian Sipe he was he's been in the makeup

817
01:26:10,960 --> 01:26:18,720
effects industry for years but he was lead on Mandalorian for a long time he's led all kinds of

818
01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:26,880
makeup effect shows Guardians of the Galaxy he used to be one of the main folks for Jennifer

819
01:26:26,880 --> 01:26:33,360
Lawrence he was her personal for a long time for the Mystique makeup like just awesome dude but he

820
01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:39,280
worked with Gary on Hannibal and I remember Hannibal like you know everything was pulled and

821
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:45,520
the whole Mason Verger character that Gary Oldman played Gary's like I want you to muck me up like

822
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:51,120
I need something in my mouth to make me talk weird so they went through this whole process of

823
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:58,160
how do you transform this person into this other person and have it be something that that person

824
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:04,480
can look at in the mirror and see themselves as something different right so as as they came up

825
01:27:04,480 --> 01:27:10,880
with that whole makeup again as we kind of pivot this back into current that's always been something

826
01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:17,840
for me is how can we utilize makeup effects to present something as a different personality of

827
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:23,440
a person and it's almost shamanistic in its imprint right because we're actually changing

828
01:27:23,440 --> 01:27:29,840
the personality and the energy of a person through this art form right like we're changing the energy

829
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:37,200
and the spirit of who that person is so it's never been for us kind of a thing we've always been

830
01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:46,240
kind of inviting to the whole idea of CG because it's it can be if it's done well if you see Lord

831
01:27:46,240 --> 01:27:52,000
of the Rings holy crap like they took makeup effects and CG and they put it together and it's

832
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:59,040
seamless right because you got your orcs but you also got your you know eagles that are flying

833
01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:05,200
that are oversized and you know what a great great great kind of measurement of all of those

834
01:28:05,200 --> 01:28:11,600
things together but i don't think we'll ever really see kind of you know us as makeup effects

835
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:18,160
artists going you know away of the warrior because i mean it's it's it's it's too powerful

836
01:28:18,160 --> 01:28:25,440
it's too powerful of a venue absolutely now what about moulage when it comes to training whether

837
01:28:25,440 --> 01:28:33,600
it's military training or first responder but also if you're using makeup in this capacity we've just

838
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:40,240
discussed to you know manifest a shadow self and then and then try and peel that shadow self away

839
01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:48,320
is there any potential at all of introducing a version of exposure to trauma to young first

840
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:53,600
responders through moulage so they're not seeing the horrors they're not hearing the actual screams

841
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:59,840
of the loved ones that really haunt us but maybe giving that realism not only for the injury

842
01:28:59,840 --> 01:29:05,920
treatment for example but also micro doses of trauma to build up that potential resilience

843
01:29:06,640 --> 01:29:12,720
we've done that there was we've did that um it's been a few years back we were working with a group

844
01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:18,240
and and we created a little side company called battle scars and it was basically that like you

845
01:29:18,240 --> 01:29:26,080
know having um it was law enforcement at the time because if you were to walk into a shooting um

846
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:31,840
kind of active shooter thing and had to administer first aid and you were the first on scene

847
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:37,120
you know we would you know things are bleeding you know we would have you know things and if you did

848
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:42,800
the compress right or the tourniquet right we turn the blood off and you you know save the person or

849
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:48,560
whatever so we've done that and we're actually working with a group now currently um starting

850
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:56,560
online some stuff but it's a group called um they're called lives they're in uk um and they

851
01:29:56,560 --> 01:30:06,160
are doing some amazing work in uh that field where they're training rural ems folks to to come upon a

852
01:30:06,160 --> 01:30:13,280
you know traumatic car accident or whatever and they're uh bringing us on to bring them exactly

853
01:30:13,280 --> 01:30:19,840
what you just talked about so utilizing someone who in real life might be an amputee but as an

854
01:30:19,840 --> 01:30:25,680
actor they could come in and we could do a makeup effect on their arm and their arm could be you

855
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:30,960
know severed in the car accident and the person has to go over and you know take care of and

856
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:37,680
respond to the injury um they have a room in the building that they're creating now where it's you

857
01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:44,800
can create cold rain anything and it's it's vehicle driven too so you can drive a vehicle onto site

858
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:49,440
and have it be it's incredible what they're doing you should check them out they're called lives

859
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:56,240
amazing stuff amazing stuff and we're also going to imprint some of the biometric information into

860
01:30:56,240 --> 01:31:01,360
that as well because as you know you know stress response starts happening as you're going through

861
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:07,120
some of these trainings how pivotal to be able to see what you're doing have the instructor be

862
01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:13,120
able to look and see kind of what's going on with you real time hit the pause button take that

863
01:31:13,120 --> 01:31:17,280
breath you're good like you're going you know we're going to ramp this up so get ready for it or

864
01:31:17,280 --> 01:31:22,880
whatever the you know cadence is that they're going for and being able to show them biometrically

865
01:31:22,880 --> 01:31:28,320
where they were within that training scenario it's it's awesome so they're going to start imprinting

866
01:31:28,320 --> 01:31:33,120
some of that stuff too amazing well thank you for that i'll look into them definitely yeah

867
01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:37,920
absolutely all right first of the closing questions is there a book or are there books

868
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:42,560
that you love to recommend it can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated

869
01:31:43,920 --> 01:31:50,400
oh man that's funny i have a book list in the back of the deck that i created for this human

870
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:57,760
fusion equation it's like three slides long what am i reading now currently that i am really really

871
01:31:57,760 --> 01:32:05,360
into i'm looking at my bookshelf right now the creative act by rick rubin is amazing

872
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:11,440
uh we have been talking a lot about

873
01:32:11,440 --> 01:32:20,480
longevity these past couple of years on on our teams and what that means so lifespan has been a

874
01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:29,920
really big book for us by david sinclair um what else did i pick up very recently that i finished

875
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:37,680
up i just put it out there the baghvet gita was one of my gateways when it comes to kind of

876
01:32:37,680 --> 01:32:48,400
doing what we're doing um as a organization and then i read a lot of uh books on shamanism there's

877
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:55,360
one called shambahala um let me grab it real quick because there's no way i'd be able to

878
01:32:56,240 --> 01:33:04,240
spell it for you but it's this one the way of the sacred warrior shambhala okay

879
01:33:04,240 --> 01:33:15,680
it's amazing it's amazing um and then i am a giant jonathan mayberry fan he writes um

880
01:33:16,960 --> 01:33:22,240
he's all right it still writes comics but he he writes a series uh based on this character

881
01:33:22,240 --> 01:33:28,560
named joe ledger and the first book i ever read of of jonathan's was called patient zero

882
01:33:28,560 --> 01:33:36,800
and obviously it's a zombie book but the book is about um this guy joe ledger and his experiences

883
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:45,680
with this new kind of black ops organization called the dms um and it's it's so profound for

884
01:33:45,680 --> 01:33:51,840
me and a lot of those books that i read through jonathan mayberry have become very lesson filled

885
01:33:51,840 --> 01:34:00,160
for me that sounds weird but um i've i've got a lot of takeaways that i've gotten from jonathan

886
01:34:00,160 --> 01:34:06,160
mayberry and he's actually in the book that i'm writing now um which has been a very very interesting

887
01:34:06,880 --> 01:34:11,840
path for me to walk to so yeah i think those are probably the main ones right now i got there's

888
01:34:12,560 --> 01:34:18,000
again there's again on the back of one of my decks it's just it's loaded with books but those are

889
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:22,800
the ones off the top of my head what's your favorite kind of zombie we have a spectrum from

890
01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:29,840
sean of the dead all the way through to world war z there shouldn't be fast zombies i'm gonna go on

891
01:34:29,840 --> 01:34:37,280
record and say that um i am a i'm a purist when it comes to that stuff i'm a remiro zombie guy

892
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:43,280
through and through so i like the i like the shambling kind of walking dead type of zombie

893
01:34:43,280 --> 01:34:50,240
um and you know i'll go on record and say that you know greg and his team at kmb they continue to

894
01:34:50,240 --> 01:35:00,240
create you know the best version of what i feel is that modern day zombie so yeah the shamblers i

895
01:35:00,240 --> 01:35:06,800
think is my version how ironic was it that we use the term patient zero in covid and there was a

896
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:13,520
lot of zombieism going on during that time too i know yeah but irony doesn't fall far from real

897
01:35:13,520 --> 01:35:17,840
right like that's very very interesting it's funny i was out in a conversation with some friends the

898
01:35:17,840 --> 01:35:23,600
other day asking them about what their kind of cathartic thing was during covid and i got a

899
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:30,480
variance of different answers but my answer was um i would sit in the room where i was in at the

900
01:35:30,480 --> 01:35:38,800
time living and i would watch disaster movies and it was mostly you know like old school mega man

901
01:35:39,840 --> 01:35:45,840
you know some of the some of the asian um disaster films that were out there trained to busan i

902
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:52,240
watched but it's just you know cathartically knowing that something's going on out there like

903
01:35:52,960 --> 01:35:59,120
you know feed the shadow like okay something's happening so let's feed you so then we can get

904
01:35:59,120 --> 01:36:05,440
the work tomorrow and and be you know somewhat functional because we've we've gone through that

905
01:36:05,440 --> 01:36:10,560
process of you know cathartically getting out what we needed to so we can keep functioning you know

906
01:36:11,120 --> 01:36:16,400
yeah so what a weird time in our history that was i think there was a lot of shadow feeling feeding

907
01:36:16,400 --> 01:36:22,160
by people that were supposed to be leading you know and and i've talked about this the autonomy

908
01:36:22,160 --> 01:36:28,720
that should have been promoted the the ability to improve your resilience against a disease by

909
01:36:28,720 --> 01:36:34,880
eating well by exercising by going outside by still communing with your loved ones because

910
01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:40,880
it's going to get you whether you like it or not was completely you know it was the reverse it was

911
01:36:40,880 --> 01:36:46,080
stay at home stay scared we'll tell you what to do but you can deliver fast food and alcohol while

912
01:36:46,080 --> 01:36:51,200
you watch tiger king and it just couldn't have been a worse you know message for people so yeah

913
01:36:51,200 --> 01:36:56,560
i think it was all shadow self and no growth well it's interesting as you bring that up too

914
01:36:56,560 --> 01:37:02,080
because stay home stay scared we even during that whole time when we were kind of conceptualizing

915
01:37:02,080 --> 01:37:07,920
what we were going to be doing you know further afield for metasphere it became how do we take

916
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:16,240
this fear-based stuff that we're being fed and and shift it on its head like what do we like yes

917
01:37:16,240 --> 01:37:21,200
it's scary yes you know there's something out there that can take you out and new york's full

918
01:37:21,200 --> 01:37:28,880
of dead bodies and all that stuff what can you do with this knowledge to help you step each foot in

919
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:33,440
front of the other and not only be resilient through the whole thing but figure out a way

920
01:37:33,440 --> 01:37:38,640
to thrive through it like what can you do as a person to thrive through this situation so

921
01:37:38,640 --> 01:37:45,840
learning from the fear learning from some of that stuff because you know you you got to do what you

922
01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:50,880
got to do if there are pre-existing conditions and all that stuff but also i absolutely agree

923
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:55,760
what can you do to force multiply your experience even though you got you know the news people

924
01:37:55,760 --> 01:38:02,720
telling you the you know you're you're dead in two weeks no matter what the fear-mongering was

925
01:38:02,720 --> 01:38:08,640
crazy and i think that's you know part and parcel to kind of where we find ourselves now as a society

926
01:38:09,200 --> 01:38:15,440
you know like we never have fully truly moved away from that you know and i think that's why

927
01:38:15,440 --> 01:38:21,840
you know today we still hear of the mental health crisis and why that's such a huge thing and it is

928
01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:28,160
it's worse you know i think because of it i already do yeah 100 but then you know to our

929
01:38:28,160 --> 01:38:34,000
conversation and the conversations you've had with multitudes of other people what can we do

930
01:38:34,000 --> 01:38:40,800
to be better what can we do to multiply effectiveness and optimize experience and all that stuff

931
01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:46,720
hell with all the other stuff what can you do as an individual to help yourself which is then going

932
01:38:46,720 --> 01:38:53,520
to in turn energetically imprint people around you you know and i think we've lost sight of that tribal

933
01:38:54,240 --> 01:39:00,480
connectivity and kind of doing for us so we can do for others it's it's such a foreign concept of

934
01:39:00,480 --> 01:39:08,400
people now it's crazy i always point out that we had a completely captive audience so there was no

935
01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:14,800
better time to really address the physical health pandemic that we have i mean you know australia

936
01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:20,160
england especially the u.s are getting fatter and sicker the mental health crisis the opioid

937
01:39:20,160 --> 01:39:24,560
epidemic what a beautiful moment to say all right well you've got your attention we're going to

938
01:39:24,560 --> 01:39:30,640
start addressing some of the issues and i talk about this no one took the soda machines out of

939
01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:35,680
schools no one put real food back into school kitchens no one put money behind the p.e programs

940
01:39:35,680 --> 01:39:42,640
the sports programs the arts you know what modes of expression no one bolstered local farmers to

941
01:39:42,640 --> 01:39:47,520
to grow you know clean food again so we didn't have a bottleneck like we saw in like none of that

942
01:39:47,520 --> 01:39:53,680
happened so there's your answer the people that you put all your faith in the people that we employ

943
01:39:53,680 --> 01:40:00,160
to supposedly lead failed fucking miserably so it is up to you i hate that phrase no one's coming to

944
01:40:00,160 --> 01:40:04,400
save you because people are people that wear uniforms like i used to wear are going to come

945
01:40:04,400 --> 01:40:11,280
and save you but you need to be part of the solution as well yes that autonomy that i wish

946
01:40:11,280 --> 01:40:17,600
people had that i put extra episodes during the the pandemic about it's up to each one of us to

947
01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:23,680
learn more about how to eat better how to exercise mindfulness sleep you know community find a way to

948
01:40:23,680 --> 01:40:28,720
mentor you know work on your own home and then walk outside your front door if we all do that

949
01:40:28,720 --> 01:40:34,880
we can then force the needle but waiting for those fucking idiots that we have in dc and i'm talking

950
01:40:34,880 --> 01:40:39,600
about both sides because it's spanned both governments absolutely you're just you're going

951
01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:44,480
to be waiting forever so it's like having the zombie apocalypse and it passes and then you forget

952
01:40:44,480 --> 01:40:50,320
all about what it's like to fight zombies yes yes well and i love that you bring that up too because

953
01:40:51,040 --> 01:40:56,480
you know at the end of the day i've written a piece in my book and it's called you're in this alone

954
01:40:56,480 --> 01:41:04,960
and and it's absolutely true because as a single autonomous human being it is up to you to make

955
01:41:04,960 --> 01:41:11,200
your choices to choose to do whatever it is that you're going to do to act or not to walk through

956
01:41:11,200 --> 01:41:17,120
the thresholds or not to make yourself better or not to eat good food or not to move yourself

957
01:41:17,120 --> 01:41:23,440
physically or not right like it's up to you alone to make those decisions are people out there that

958
01:41:23,440 --> 01:41:30,160
will support you and cheer for you and be your you know biggest cheerleader when you get the win and

959
01:41:30,160 --> 01:41:35,280
all that stuff 100 but they're not going to be the ones that are making those decisions

960
01:41:35,280 --> 01:41:41,440
for you to step into the breach and do some hard stuff and get that win right so i think to your

961
01:41:41,440 --> 01:41:50,000
point being who we are and kind of living this human existence it is so up to us individually

962
01:41:50,000 --> 01:41:57,200
individually to make those decisions and a lot of those decisions suck and they're hard and you know

963
01:41:57,200 --> 01:42:03,440
it's difficult to get up at five o'clock in the morning and walk down to the gym and get your

964
01:42:03,440 --> 01:42:09,040
workout in and then eat a good breakfast and make sure you're hydrating well like it can it can be

965
01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:16,080
difficult but guess what this is life and life can be difficult but it can also be profoundly

966
01:42:16,080 --> 01:42:23,280
awesome and joyful and the we how you get there the choices that you make the decisions that you make

967
01:42:23,840 --> 01:42:29,200
i think that's where the sauce is is that some of those things that get us to those most beautiful

968
01:42:29,520 --> 01:42:35,600
most divine joyful times in life we've done the hard stuff to get there done the work right we

969
01:42:35,600 --> 01:42:43,760
practiced living life in a way where we operationalize ourselves and i think that's so so needed

970
01:42:43,760 --> 01:42:51,200
especially to your point right now because you know yes first responders military are doing it

971
01:42:51,200 --> 01:42:57,360
the law enforcement's doing it somebody will come help and try to save but you got to want to save

972
01:42:57,360 --> 01:43:03,040
yourself start with right so that's got to be part of your mission so tell me about the book what's

973
01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:12,160
it going to be about and what's the title if you have one man um the title working right now is a

974
01:43:12,160 --> 01:43:22,320
cathartic a cataclysmic life the tau of human fusion because i feel like we as humans

975
01:43:24,080 --> 01:43:31,440
we're a fusion reactor and as we act it predicates the next spark and the next fire and the next

976
01:43:31,440 --> 01:43:41,440
explosion right so having something for us to catalyze and burn energy and create those fusion

977
01:43:41,440 --> 01:43:48,480
reactions daily i think is important and i think that comes from making kind of cataclysmic

978
01:43:48,480 --> 01:43:55,360
decisions right like deciding to leave a job because that job is not healthy for you because

979
01:43:55,360 --> 01:44:02,800
it's filled with a culture that does nothing but bring you down and bring down the culture itself

980
01:44:03,760 --> 01:44:10,000
cataclysmically the decision is i gotta leave right like there's something better for me out there

981
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:15,680
so making that decision but also putting things within your fusion reaction to make sure that

982
01:44:16,320 --> 01:44:21,200
you leave the job but you're also doing things to make sure that you're optimizing your experience

983
01:44:21,200 --> 01:44:28,400
as you do so it's a lot of that and it's it's very memoir based so i talk a lot about what we

984
01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:33,520
were talking about earlier with you know kind of upbringing and nature versus nurture and some of

985
01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:40,320
those experiences with the deer and being outside and all that stuff and then i wrap it each of

986
01:44:40,320 --> 01:44:48,400
those memoir stories in a lesson so what i want it to be is you know not just me ranting about

987
01:44:48,400 --> 01:44:55,200
you know we got to do better but giving actionable you know steps to do that and and be somebody that

988
01:44:55,200 --> 01:45:01,200
can look at themselves in the mirror and go it's gonna be difficult but i can do it and and oh

989
01:45:01,200 --> 01:45:06,880
brian's done some things in his past and gave some examples i can take an example of that and kind

990
01:45:06,880 --> 01:45:13,120
of move myself forward and it's funny i started this book six years ago and put it back like it's

991
01:45:13,120 --> 01:45:19,840
been on a hard drive and then as i was talking to eric potterat and talking to daniel and you and i

992
01:45:19,840 --> 01:45:24,080
had our conversations and all that stuff and just doing what we've been doing on the medis for your

993
01:45:24,080 --> 01:45:29,360
side i picked it up one day and i was like i'm gonna finish this damn thing and it's gonna be

994
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:36,560
something that's going to be for me first off but i'm also gonna intend to write it in a way where

995
01:45:37,120 --> 01:45:42,880
it's my voice and it's my humor and it's my inflection and all that stuff but i also want it

996
01:45:42,880 --> 01:45:50,720
to be something where people can read it and look at it and see similarities with themselves and then

997
01:45:50,720 --> 01:45:55,680
see that there's actionable steps that they can take in order to kind of move themselves in a

998
01:45:55,680 --> 01:46:01,360
in a different direction um it's permeated with medisphere stuff a lot of hero journey stuff's in

999
01:46:01,360 --> 01:46:07,360
there so uh it's it's gonna be a juggernaut i might have to break it into two or three versions

1000
01:46:07,360 --> 01:46:12,800
of volumes because it's i was talking to sarah my better half the other night and she's like oh my

1001
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:23,200
god this thing is long but and i and i i feel like part of that practice and part of that idea of it

1002
01:46:23,200 --> 01:46:29,680
takes a minute to do anything that's that's worth it in life right you know a long book and reading

1003
01:46:29,680 --> 01:46:34,560
through a book and doing the exercise that you're engaging you're you're grabbing a hold of something

1004
01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:42,640
that is maybe difficult because it's of its length um but you do it and i think you come out the other

1005
01:46:42,640 --> 01:46:48,800
side you know better for it so yeah that's what it's all about beautiful i'm looking forward to

1006
01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:57,200
seeing that come out so what about what about um movies and documentaries obviously you've you know

1007
01:46:57,200 --> 01:47:05,040
been a part of so many productions what is some of your favorite of those man documentaries i love

1008
01:47:05,040 --> 01:47:13,920
the social dilemma because i see that every day um with people that we work with like they're so

1009
01:47:13,920 --> 01:47:20,800
plugged into the device and they're they're addicted like you you can't walk out of a room without it

1010
01:47:20,800 --> 01:47:25,280
either in your back pocket people go to the bathroom with theirself it's like what is happening

1011
01:47:25,280 --> 01:47:30,240
like what are you doing in there um you know getting your likes on facebook or whatever i

1012
01:47:30,880 --> 01:47:37,040
i got off of social media years ago like i just have linkedin now and it's been such a good thing

1013
01:47:37,040 --> 01:47:44,880
so social dilemma was good um what have i watched recently documentary wise that i really love i i'm

1014
01:47:44,880 --> 01:47:52,320
a out myself i love project runway man i'm a giant project runway fan and when you say out yourself

1015
01:47:52,320 --> 01:48:00,800
is this an exclusive or you're just talking about just talking about the the idea of you know this

1016
01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:05,920
this guy who does what i do and one of my favorite things to do in life is sit on the couch at night

1017
01:48:05,920 --> 01:48:12,160
with my significant other and watch project one way it's just it's the it's the characters of it

1018
01:48:12,160 --> 01:48:20,720
it's the creativeness of it so i love it um i'm a big big mike flanagan fan um mike flanagan is a

1019
01:48:20,720 --> 01:48:27,920
uh horror director uh he's done a lot of stephen king adaptations um but he's got a show all of

1020
01:48:27,920 --> 01:48:36,000
his shows are on netflix but but one called midnight mass just affected me in such a way

1021
01:48:36,000 --> 01:48:41,920
uh there's a certain scene that happens within that show and series that i have a

1022
01:48:41,920 --> 01:48:48,640
a transcript of it in the book because it was so profound it was a question asked to somebody

1023
01:48:48,640 --> 01:48:54,880
within the show about what do you think happens to you after you die and the lady that gives the

1024
01:48:54,880 --> 01:49:05,920
answer like it's exactly what i would think in my heart spirit kind of brain process but to see it

1025
01:49:06,480 --> 01:49:13,280
emoted on a tv show it blew my mind and i it again uh emotional i was sitting on the couch

1026
01:49:13,280 --> 01:49:16,880
and sarah and i started crying because they're like holy shit this is exactly what we believe

1027
01:49:17,680 --> 01:49:24,240
so and the flanagan stuff pretty heady anyway like he always teaches a moral kind of spirit

1028
01:49:24,240 --> 01:49:30,560
lesson with his stuff i believe so that's been really cool um i still love walking dead you know

1029
01:49:30,560 --> 01:49:36,640
i know i kind of toot the horn but i still am a fan of kind of what they're doing with that and

1030
01:49:36,640 --> 01:49:41,200
kind of seeing what they're doing with all the little branch off extensions with everybody kind

1031
01:49:41,200 --> 01:49:46,320
of going and doing their other stuff um so many different documentaries i wish i could

1032
01:49:46,320 --> 01:49:54,560
think of you know the ones that have affected me in a pretty powerful way over the past few years

1033
01:49:54,560 --> 01:50:00,800
there was one that was about a um it's about a volcano in australia where they were taking people

1034
01:50:00,800 --> 01:50:06,960
to um visit the volcano and it was active remember that i think it was it was in new zealand i think

1035
01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:14,320
it was yes yes i saw on the plane for some reason yeah horrifying that was that was very very

1036
01:50:14,320 --> 01:50:20,560
very very interesting um and then i you know what's the one about the octopus the teeth my

1037
01:50:20,560 --> 01:50:30,160
oh yeah my yeah my octopus teacher wow amazing amazing yeah i'm a i'm a big documentary person

1038
01:50:31,040 --> 01:50:38,800
um and i've kind of pivoted into um not so much horror these days but i i love watching like really

1039
01:50:38,800 --> 01:50:47,920
old school sci-fi now um watch a lot of old stanley kubrick stuff like 2001 love um a lot of old

1040
01:50:47,920 --> 01:50:54,320
you know just kind of twilight zone stuff i keep watching over and over again and i hate and i'm

1041
01:50:54,320 --> 01:51:00,400
going to use the word i don't use hate often but i hate that hollywood has gone to having to redo

1042
01:51:00,400 --> 01:51:08,080
and reboot everything it's like oh my god like what where's the original ideas you know yeah i

1043
01:51:08,080 --> 01:51:15,440
mean when we made our two films out in michigan absolute original ideas you know yes inspired

1044
01:51:15,440 --> 01:51:21,120
from some things i mean covid was a giant inspiration when we made the first movie

1045
01:51:21,120 --> 01:51:28,320
because of just what it was but you know try to be original with the thought process and not redo

1046
01:51:28,320 --> 01:51:34,880
stuff so yeah when you see classic movies like poltergeist and waxworks and all this our um

1047
01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:41,120
um night at the wax museum or whatever being redone you're like what is happening like you

1048
01:51:41,120 --> 01:51:47,040
know have a have an original thought yeah absolutely yeah my my book i'm writing now is a fiction and

1049
01:51:47,040 --> 01:51:50,960
that's my goal like i want it to be a you know captivating book but i want it to be on the

1050
01:51:50,960 --> 01:51:57,840
screen because that's how you get to the most people and when you see what absolute shit gets

1051
01:51:57,840 --> 01:52:04,240
made these days you go you know what why the fuck not me as well i got a chance yeah i mean you have

1052
01:52:04,240 --> 01:52:09,040
that imposter syndrome and like ah but then when you really deconstruct it yeah like you could make

1053
01:52:09,040 --> 01:52:14,560
a life story of almost everyone's being on the show and it would be a captivating film you know

1054
01:52:14,560 --> 01:52:18,960
one and yeah i just watched when it was really sad because it was a great cast but i got i watched one

1055
01:52:19,600 --> 01:52:25,680
um god i forget uh i got to say michael keaton played like an old navy seal in it it was on netflix

1056
01:52:25,680 --> 01:52:33,920
and this kid this guy had lost his wife and child i forget now because it was that bad and then became

1057
01:52:33,920 --> 01:52:39,040
like a you know trained for vengeance and then the cia would like watching him like hey you're a

1058
01:52:39,040 --> 01:52:44,640
really good fighter you can come join the cia oh i don't know i'm watching this like which fucking

1059
01:52:45,360 --> 01:52:50,320
you know post vehicle accident eight-year-old wrote this like really you went into a boardroom

1060
01:52:50,320 --> 01:52:56,480
with this and they were like here's 20 million dollars go make it and i know that the cast was

1061
01:52:56,480 --> 01:53:00,160
phenomenal so they must have been pitched a slightly different version of how it ended up

1062
01:53:01,200 --> 01:53:06,640
but this is just it i'm not criticizing there's so many great films out there but there are so many

1063
01:53:06,640 --> 01:53:13,200
like you said rehashes or just the same cheesy story oh i'm a i'm a rugged detective and i drink

1064
01:53:13,200 --> 01:53:18,240
when i wake up and you know like for fuck's sake so this is what's enthusing anyone out there with

1065
01:53:18,240 --> 01:53:22,880
anyone out there with a with a story burning in your heart i'm i've come hell or high water i'm

1066
01:53:22,880 --> 01:53:29,760
gonna get this made into a show but well why not you i'll help you anyway i can so what have you

1067
01:53:29,760 --> 01:53:34,960
seen and i'll give you one of mine but what have you seen recently that's been kind of that

1068
01:53:35,600 --> 01:53:41,360
thing for you where light bulb kicked on i'd say one of the best pieces of television i've seen

1069
01:53:41,360 --> 01:53:50,400
a long time with michael keaton was um dope sick on hulu absolutely incredible and it wasn't just

1070
01:53:50,400 --> 01:53:56,000
the fact that it was a powerful true story every single character in that film it wasn't a

1071
01:53:56,000 --> 01:54:01,280
caricature but it was raw enough to make it believable and you everything from you know

1072
01:54:01,280 --> 01:54:05,920
there was one um girl who becomes an addict and her parents are devout christian and there's that

1073
01:54:05,920 --> 01:54:11,680
spiritual struggle it was i mean absolutely phenomenal so to me that's what if you're going to ask

1074
01:54:11,680 --> 01:54:18,080
a person to sit down for in this case it was like a you know what was that six eight hours of

1075
01:54:18,080 --> 01:54:24,880
television yeah i i mean i watched it again for the second time and i've tried to get beth macy on who

1076
01:54:24,880 --> 01:54:29,520
wrote the book and it's just about timing because writers are always writing um you know i mean it

1077
01:54:29,520 --> 01:54:36,320
was it was absolutely incredible so to me it shows like that it's still you know that was a true story

1078
01:54:36,320 --> 01:54:42,480
but the way the way it was presented it wasn't like a documentary they used drama they used

1079
01:54:42,480 --> 01:54:50,720
you know quote unquote fiction in some areas to draw you in and viscerally see how the corruption

1080
01:54:50,720 --> 01:54:57,360
and greed and arguably mental health in corporations creating these fucking sociopaths at the top of

1081
01:54:57,360 --> 01:55:06,320
these these businesses literally caused a national opioid epidemic so that to me is is a gold standard

1082
01:55:06,320 --> 01:55:12,240
of what television should be yeah i i saw there's a lot of good television out there and it's sad

1083
01:55:12,240 --> 01:55:17,760
because i think that the they're really good stories it's not sad it's different because a

1084
01:55:17,760 --> 01:55:21,760
lot of the good stories are going to the small screen you know like there's there's a lot of

1085
01:55:21,760 --> 01:55:28,640
really good storytelling but i did go see uh up and heimer uh when it was out and you know that's

1086
01:55:28,640 --> 01:55:36,240
where this thing came from because i got home um kind of just really because i knew the story but

1087
01:55:36,240 --> 01:55:43,200
didn't know the real story um of kind of what all went on and then what up and heimer's reaction

1088
01:55:43,200 --> 01:55:48,880
was to the whole thing because he really felt badly about the fact that they had created this

1089
01:55:48,880 --> 01:55:54,640
thing was then going to kill you know millions of people and he felt like they had done the

1090
01:55:54,640 --> 01:56:01,680
wrong thing and he started to kind of voice that you know very openly um but i got home that night

1091
01:56:01,680 --> 01:56:06,880
and really started to think about it and then went to bed and james i woke up the next morning it was

1092
01:56:06,880 --> 01:56:14,480
like it was like out of a movie and i had this dream where i saw all of these factors of this

1093
01:56:14,480 --> 01:56:22,000
thing kind of floating around and i was hearing like static of a radio and i saw a hand come in

1094
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:28,960
and kind of tune the radio to like it was like this weird kind of 40s instrumental station i

1095
01:56:28,960 --> 01:56:34,560
was like okay and then all these factors started dropping into place and it was kind of the whole

1096
01:56:34,560 --> 01:56:41,680
human fusion equation about how we can take these different factors of who we are as people and all

1097
01:56:41,680 --> 01:56:47,040
the facets and aspects of who we are physically mentally emotionally spiritually all that stuff

1098
01:56:47,040 --> 01:56:52,880
and if we can pull one factor out of the equation and start to work on it put it back in then we can

1099
01:56:52,880 --> 01:57:02,160
catalyze our own fusion right like we can do better in any aspect of life and i woke up wrote

1100
01:57:02,160 --> 01:57:08,160
it down like the first draft of it and then this thing became what it became and it's a big factor

1101
01:57:08,160 --> 01:57:14,640
now in kind of what we're doing with the face-to-face stuff too so it's it's interesting that that

1102
01:57:14,640 --> 01:57:24,080
creativeness and the arts and film and television seeing them as for what they are is one thing

1103
01:57:24,080 --> 01:57:30,160
but allowing them to kind of permeate who we are like just getting to our soul and kind of let it

1104
01:57:30,160 --> 01:57:35,440
do what it does like for you the dope sick thing obviously it has struck a chord and you're like

1105
01:57:35,440 --> 01:57:40,800
got to do something different about this for me and the uppenheimer thing it was like oh it sparked

1106
01:57:40,800 --> 01:57:46,880
this creative thing for something that was programmable to go out and help people right so

1107
01:57:46,880 --> 01:57:54,720
it i think the openness of what that venue kind of offers us is huge because it it's definitely

1108
01:57:55,920 --> 01:57:59,760
the people that make it it's their own interpretation of what they're trying to kind

1109
01:57:59,760 --> 01:58:05,760
of represent and then it's up to us of course individually to kind of interpret that for us

1110
01:58:05,760 --> 01:58:11,840
but it's so special like it's such a really cool energy cycle that starts to happen you know so

1111
01:58:11,840 --> 01:58:17,120
that's awesome absolutely well the next of the closing questions is there a person that you

1112
01:58:17,120 --> 01:58:22,400
recommend to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders military and

1113
01:58:22,400 --> 01:58:31,120
associate professionals of the world i think a lot of the people that i would mention you probably

1114
01:58:31,120 --> 01:58:38,480
have had on daniel for sure eric potterat for sure have you had andy walsh on i don't think so no

1115
01:58:39,280 --> 01:58:43,360
yeah i don't think so i know i know i haven't i just don't think i've even heard of him before

1116
01:58:43,360 --> 01:58:52,080
andy walsh is a is a is a really good friend um he uh was creator of a group out in los angeles

1117
01:58:52,080 --> 01:58:57,760
called the liminal collective and um i'll send you some of their information but andy used to be the

1118
01:58:58,400 --> 01:59:03,680
lead performance psychologist at team red bull um and he's the guy that helped alex bomb garden

1119
01:59:03,680 --> 01:59:08,880
jump out of the weather balloon up in space and come back into the atmosphere like you know andy

1120
01:59:08,880 --> 01:59:16,800
helped him do all that stuff um just a d salt of the earth sweetest most compassionate dude

1121
01:59:16,800 --> 01:59:22,560
that and he's he's worked with special ops he's worked with all of the service professionals so i

1122
01:59:22,560 --> 01:59:30,240
think you would be an amazing person to have on um man who else i'm trying to think it's funny you

1123
01:59:30,240 --> 01:59:34,800
get on these you know these these calls and do these things and like everybody that you

1124
01:59:34,800 --> 01:59:40,160
have been talking about for years they just go out of your brain well i always tell people

1125
01:59:40,160 --> 01:59:44,160
yeah after after the fact if someone springs to mind then by all means send them you know

1126
01:59:44,160 --> 01:59:49,040
send this yeah yeah i'll absolutely text you for sure because there's a there's a few out there

1127
01:59:49,040 --> 01:59:54,480
that i can think of absolutely beautiful all right well then the last question before everyone

1128
01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:58,320
knows where to find you and all the things that we've discussed about today we'll discuss today

1129
01:59:58,320 --> 02:00:08,240
we'll discuss today what you do to decompress man i i do that every day i take big breaths all day

1130
02:00:08,240 --> 02:00:17,120
long um decompression for me is working out like i love my crossfit um it gives me an outlet

1131
02:00:18,080 --> 02:00:24,800
um and i try to do it wisely these days like i don't you know feel like i've got to

1132
02:00:24,800 --> 02:00:31,840
you know pick up all the heavy things all day i know my limits but i also know my boundaries

1133
02:00:31,840 --> 02:00:39,200
and how i want to push through them and that for me is a very decompressing type of thing um

1134
02:00:40,800 --> 02:00:49,840
meditation i meditate daily and i tap into my spiritual practice daily um not religious i was

1135
02:00:49,840 --> 02:00:57,200
born baptist and raised baptist but i'm more uh i hate to say it this way but it is more spiritual

1136
02:00:57,200 --> 02:01:06,320
and i tap into fully my native american heritage and my Cherokee background um and bring in a lot

1137
02:01:06,320 --> 02:01:11,760
of that um decompression for me too is being outside and being in the wild i mean it has been

1138
02:01:11,760 --> 02:01:18,960
ever since i was you know knee-high to a grasshopper as my mom would say um i just i take my shoes off

1139
02:01:18,960 --> 02:01:27,840
and um walk out into the grass and like bruce willis did in um you know die hard i make fists

1140
02:01:27,840 --> 02:01:34,240
with my toes and reground myself into mother earth you know and i look up and know that

1141
02:01:34,960 --> 02:01:41,040
you know above us is something very powerful and profound and i always tend to tap into that as

1142
02:01:41,040 --> 02:01:49,840
much as i can daily um and i write like i think my my my writing is is a really cool for me

1143
02:01:49,840 --> 02:01:58,880
decompression because it it pulls things and i i have a uh tbi myself it's a it's a chemically

1144
02:01:58,880 --> 02:02:03,840
induced uh traumatic brain injury through some of the chemicals that we used in the shops

1145
02:02:05,200 --> 02:02:09,920
and when i was younger you know wrote about this in the book but there were multiple concussions

1146
02:02:09,920 --> 02:02:14,640
uh multiple bike crashes and football and falling off of top bunks and getting hit in the head with

1147
02:02:14,640 --> 02:02:19,680
a baseball bat and all this other stuff and those they are they're always there right like they

1148
02:02:19,680 --> 02:02:27,680
they never really fully heal and then when i got into the makeup effects world um the hard metals

1149
02:02:27,680 --> 02:02:33,200
that we were using in the shops tended to open those fissures back up so i was actually presenting

1150
02:02:33,680 --> 02:02:38,720
some of the same symptoms as we were seeing with some of the operators that we were dealing with

1151
02:02:38,720 --> 02:02:46,000
that we're dealing with tbi and cte and concussion and all that stuff so i had to get busy practicing

1152
02:02:46,800 --> 02:02:53,840
you know how to better myself and kind of mitigate that stuff which i did so meditation and breathwork

1153
02:02:53,840 --> 02:03:02,000
has become a very vital thing for me daily um as has physical activity and then when i'm you know

1154
02:03:02,000 --> 02:03:07,360
love to cook and finding out good things to put in my body like that's always a nice decompression

1155
02:03:07,360 --> 02:03:12,880
piece too because you know we can always go out there and source a bunch of crap to eat but finding

1156
02:03:12,880 --> 02:03:21,040
the good stuff that's always fun so absolutely brilliant well for people listening then where

1157
02:03:21,040 --> 02:03:26,720
are the best places to find metasphere industries and then what about yourself you mentioned linked

1158
02:03:26,720 --> 02:03:32,720
in yeah metasphereindustries.com is the website there's a informational deck on there that you

1159
02:03:32,720 --> 02:03:37,680
can read and kind of see a little bit about what we're doing it's definitely the wave tops of what

1160
02:03:37,680 --> 02:03:45,280
we do and a lot of what we bring to the table purposeful it's it's the wave tops because when

1161
02:03:45,280 --> 02:03:51,600
we have conversations like this and start to really talk about what we do the light bulbs start going

1162
02:03:51,600 --> 02:03:58,880
on so what you'll read on the website is very high end on the kind of this is what we do and in order

1163
02:03:58,880 --> 02:04:06,080
to hear more reach out um linkedin's a really good place as well and then i have my number on all of

1164
02:04:06,080 --> 02:04:15,040
that like my mobile number is on the website it's on linkedin and i invite people text me call me

1165
02:04:15,040 --> 02:04:19,520
you know reach out and if there's anything that you've heard within this conversation that you

1166
02:04:19,520 --> 02:04:24,800
want to know more about i'd be absolutely happy to have a conversation and just see where it goes

1167
02:04:24,800 --> 02:04:30,960
so 100% brilliant well brian i want to say thank you so much it's been i knew it was going to be an

1168
02:04:30,960 --> 02:04:36,480
amazing conversation and it was i mean we've gone everywhere from childhood trauma to special effects

1169
02:04:36,480 --> 02:04:41,680
in hollywood and everything in between but i want to thank you again for your courageous vulnerability

1170
02:04:41,680 --> 02:04:46,320
it is so important and secondly just for being so generous with your time and coming on the behind

1171
02:04:46,320 --> 02:04:50,560
the shield podcast today thank you it's been a pleasure thank you very much we'll do it again

1172
02:04:50,560 --> 02:04:56,960
sometime