1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,220 I'm extremely excited to announce a brand new sponsor for the Behind the Shield podcast 2 00:00:04,220 --> 00:00:06,540 that is Transcend. 3 00:00:06,540 --> 00:00:10,560 Now for many of you listening, you are probably working the same brutal shifts that I did 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:12,520 for 14 years. 5 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:18,840 Suffering from sleep deprivation, body composition challenges, mental health challenges, libido, 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:20,540 hair loss, etc. 7 00:00:20,540 --> 00:00:23,800 Now when it comes to the world of hormone replacement and peptide therapy, what I have 8 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,220 seen is a shift from doctors telling us that we were within normal limits, which was definitely 9 00:00:28,220 --> 00:00:32,920 incorrect all the way to the other way now where men's clinics are popping up left, 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:34,560 right and center. 11 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:40,120 So I myself wanted to find a reputable company that would do an analysis of my physiology 12 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:45,320 and then offer supplementations without ramming, for example, hormone replacement therapy down 13 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:46,460 my throat. 14 00:00:46,460 --> 00:00:50,780 Now I came across Transcend because they have an altruistic arm and they were a big reason 15 00:00:50,780 --> 00:00:56,800 why the 7X project I was a part of was able to proceed because of their generous donations. 16 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:00,820 They also have the Transcend foundations where they are actually putting military and first 17 00:01:00,820 --> 00:01:05,440 responders through some of their therapies at no cost to the individual. 18 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:11,000 So my own personal journey so far filled in the online form, went to Quest, got blood 19 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,720 drawn and a few days later I'm talking to one of their wellness professionals as they 20 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,140 guide me through my results and the supplementation that they suggest. 21 00:01:19,140 --> 00:01:23,640 In my case specifically, because I transitioned out the fire service five years ago and been 22 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:28,800 very diligent with my health, my testosterone was actually in a good place. 23 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:33,320 So I went down the peptide route and some other supplements to try and maximize my physiology 24 00:01:33,320 --> 00:01:37,760 knowing full well the damage that 14 years of shift work has done. 25 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,680 Now I also want to underline because I think this is very important that each of the therapies 26 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,080 they offer, they will talk about the pros and cons. 27 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,520 So for example, a lot of first responders in shift work, our testosterone will be low, 28 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:54,360 but sometimes nutrition, exercise and sleep can offset that on its own. 29 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:58,680 So this company is not going to try and push you down a path, especially if it's one that 30 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,360 you can't come back from. 31 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:07,760 So whether it's libido, brain fog, inflammation, gut health, performance, sleep, this is definitely 32 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,880 one of the most powerful tools in the toolbox. 33 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:17,800 So to learn more, go to transcendcompany.com or listen to episode 808 of the Behind the 34 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,160 Shield podcast with founder Ernie Colling. 35 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:27,960 This episode is sponsored by a company I've used for well over a decade and that is 511. 36 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:33,400 I wore their uniforms back in Anaheim, California and I've used their products ever since. 37 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:39,960 From their incredibly strong yet light footwear to their cut uniforms for both male and female 38 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:44,800 responders, I found them hands down the best workwear in all the departments that I've 39 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:45,800 worked for. 40 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:50,360 Outside of the fire service, I use their luggage for everything and I travel a lot and they 41 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:56,600 are also now sponsoring the 7X team as we embark around the world on the Human Performance 42 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:57,600 project. 43 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,720 We have Murph coming up in May and again I bought their plate carrier. 44 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:06,720 I ended up buying real ballistic plates rather than the fake weight plates and that has been 45 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,560 my ride or die through Murph the last few years as well. 46 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,500 One area I want to talk about that I haven't in previous sponsorship spots is their brick 47 00:03:14,500 --> 00:03:16,340 and mortar element. 48 00:03:16,340 --> 00:03:21,040 They were predominantly an online company up till more recently but now they are approaching 49 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,780 100 stores all over the US. 50 00:03:23,780 --> 00:03:28,840 My local store is here in Gainesville Florida and I've been multiple times and the discounts 51 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,100 you see online are applied also in the stores. 52 00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:38,720 So as I mentioned 511 is offering you 15% off every purchase that you make but I do 53 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:43,800 want to say more often than not they have an even deeper discount especially around 54 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:45,400 holiday times. 55 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:55,360 But if you use the code SHIELD15 you will get 15% off your order or in the stores every 56 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,240 time you make a purchase. 57 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:02,520 If you want to hear more about 511, who they stand for and who works with them, listen 58 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:10,440 to episode 580 of Behind the Shield podcast with 511 regional director Will Ayres. 59 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:11,800 Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. 60 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,320 As always my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on 61 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:23,040 the show veteran FDNY firefighter and the man behind Top Floor Tactics, Mickey Farrell. 62 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:28,520 So in this conversation we discuss a host of topics from his journey into the fire service, 63 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:34,200 entering the academy right when 9-11 happened, the heartbreakingly powerful perspective he 64 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:39,280 had as a probationary firefighter in the weeks following 9-11. 65 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:47,360 Truck work, vertical ventilation, lithium ion battery fires, 9-11 cancer and so much 66 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:48,360 more. 67 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:53,200 Now before we get to this incredible conversation as I say every week please just take a moment, 68 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,860 go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and 69 00:04:57,860 --> 00:04:59,800 leave a rating. 70 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:04,840 Every single 5 star rating truly does elevate this podcast therefore making it easier for 71 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:12,200 others to find and this is a free library of almost 900 episodes now so all I ask in 72 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:17,640 return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so I can get them to 73 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,940 every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them. 74 00:05:21,940 --> 00:05:26,880 So with that being said I introduce to you Mickey Farrell. 75 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:46,560 Enjoy. 76 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,700 Well Mickey I want to start by saying thank you so much for taking the time and coming 77 00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:52,360 on the Behind the Shield podcast today. 78 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,980 James thanks so much for having me on. 79 00:05:54,980 --> 00:05:58,920 So where on planet earth will be finding you this afternoon? 80 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,600 Today I'm in New York City which I like to call my TFT headquarters which is a little 81 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:07,160 makeshift studio here in New York but it works and that's where I am today. 82 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:11,520 Beautiful well I've heard you on several podcasts I want to give shout out to Pete Wakefield 83 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:16,820 from the Firefighters podcast which is the one that I heard you on but I didn't really 84 00:06:16,820 --> 00:06:20,840 hear much about your kind of early life, your journey into the fire service so I would love 85 00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:23,180 to start at the very beginning of your timeline. 86 00:06:23,180 --> 00:06:26,520 So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what 87 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,640 your parents did, how many siblings. 88 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:31,760 So I'm an only child so let's start with that. 89 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:37,960 So with that I had an incredible relationship with my father he became my best friend. 90 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:43,220 Grew up in a small town right outside New York City in New Jersey, northeast or northwest 91 00:06:43,220 --> 00:06:51,360 section of New Jersey about an hour or so out of the city and my father he was a carpenter 92 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,720 by trade but a volunteer fireman with his passion and that's truly what he did and that's 93 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:02,120 where I grew up is in the volunteer firehouse so it was we spent numerous, numerous hours 94 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,880 weekends with the families and friends, camping trips so that's all I really knew was the 95 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:08,280 fire service. 96 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:13,080 On top of that my grandfather he was a city fireman in the city of Hoboken which is for 97 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:20,240 you don't know Hoboken it's a city that overlooks New York City it's just one square mile. 98 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,560 Back then it was kind of a tough city today it's kind of been gentrified and cleaned 99 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,200 up but when he was a fireman there they were just as busy as any of the warrior ghettos 100 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:32,080 and so that was my early introduction to the fire service it was really as far back as 101 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,320 I can remember. 102 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,120 Alright well then interesting perspective right off the bat. 103 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:43,000 Firstly I had an amazing engineer when I was at Anaheim Fire and he'd been on, god I think 104 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:48,360 Jerry been on for almost 40 years just it's crazy but he was reminiscing about Anaheim 105 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:53,320 40 years ago and how all the firefighters lived in the city they did all these things 106 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:58,000 together when they got off duty and then progressed forward to the kind of generations that you 107 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:02,680 and I joined a lot of us just couldn't afford to live in the cities that we serve anymore 108 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,160 so some of that community was fractured a bit. 109 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:12,320 How do you see or how do you compare your time in FDNY now versus that community based 110 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,680 element of your volunteer firefighter dad? 111 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,360 So that's one thing with the FDNY I don't think we ever lost and I think it's dying 112 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:27,720 in the culture of the fire service in general with that family draw that community beyond 113 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,920 the fire house, beyond the fire floor you know we all want to go to fires but there's 114 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:37,160 so much more to it so I'm so fortunate to be in the FDNY with that tradition and that 115 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:42,400 pride and that culture of families we still have the picnics, the dinner dances, the father 116 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,400 son father daughter camping trips, the rafting trips so we still all do those things where 117 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:54,080 I feel a lot of other departments kind of lost that so again tremendously unfortunate 118 00:08:54,080 --> 00:09:00,920 to have that but the volunteer side of it you never turn it off and then when you go 119 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:05,380 to work you still never turn it off because you're always bringing it home and it's kind 120 00:09:05,380 --> 00:09:11,440 of moving forward with your family and your family is a very big part of my career. 121 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:17,000 What is it about FDNY that was able to carry that culture on because you know for a lot 122 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:22,920 of us it's obviously very very expensive to live in the city itself so I would argue that 123 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,760 FDNY firefighters are more prone to living way outside of where they work yet you've 124 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,760 been able to hang on to that. 125 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,140 Yeah so that is an issue, that is a problem. 126 00:09:34,140 --> 00:09:36,960 People are living an hour or two hours away from the city and they're commuting in so 127 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:41,180 that does change the element of the events. 128 00:09:41,180 --> 00:09:45,720 We still do like I said the family camping trips and whatnot but the typical boys night 129 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,880 out so they don't happen as often as they once would I don't think. 130 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,320 Softball is still a big thing but then you get the argument of well I live in an hour 131 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,680 and a half two hours from the city why am I going to drive in on my day off to play 132 00:09:56,680 --> 00:10:02,120 softball right so on that side of things I can see how it's somewhat dying but there's 133 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,840 still a core group of really really good and great firehouses that are doing that. 134 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,480 I wouldn't say every single firehouse has that culture but the good ones still have 135 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,640 that tradition. 136 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,200 Where your father worked is it still a volunteer department today? 137 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:17,380 Yes it is. 138 00:10:17,380 --> 00:10:21,800 So this is what's something that's kind of strange to me again from working for different 139 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:26,840 fire departments different sides of the states coming from a different country is I totally 140 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:31,080 understand the application of the volunteer fire service you know when you're in a small 141 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,840 community maybe in the middle of nowhere you know that's who you're going to need on the 142 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,700 occasions that you have some sort of fire. 143 00:10:37,700 --> 00:10:43,900 What I see though in 2024 is a lot of affluent suburban neighborhoods that seemingly should 144 00:10:43,900 --> 00:10:49,280 have a career department but are still relying on volunteerism versus actually putting the 145 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,280 tax money forward and creating a career department. 146 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:58,480 Yeah so that's something I'm fortunate that I get to travel around the country and speak 147 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,520 and teach and really connect with a lot of firefighters throughout the country. 148 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:08,840 That's one thing I've seen where the volunteer fire service in certain states within the 149 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:13,360 country very strong and then you get to other states where it's diminishing and it's just 150 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:18,400 a matter of time before that volunteerism is gone and they're going to have to provide 151 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:19,400 fire protection. 152 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,580 It's just again it's a matter of time. 153 00:11:22,580 --> 00:11:27,040 Where I grew up where I am they still have that core sense of tradition pride and training 154 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:32,240 and moving forward with the volunteer fire service but you're right it is dying and it's 155 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,560 dying a quick death unfortunately. 156 00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:38,800 Well just to kind of look at it from a different lens I mean volunteerism obviously is a big 157 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:44,840 part of that but also I can't help but feel that some cities and counties are taking advantage 158 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:49,360 of the fact that people will volunteer rather than give them a wage for what they do and 159 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,600 actually then give them the equipment the training etc that they need to be for example 160 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,120 a suburban fire department. 161 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:02,800 Yeah and the cost of living is just out of control nationwide guys working two three 162 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:08,760 jobs to make ends meet so like the old school mentality of you know nine to five go hang 163 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:13,440 out at the volunteer firehouse spend the weekends there that's kind of dying only because of 164 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:18,000 the cost of living is so expensive and this is across the nation this isn't just within 165 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:23,800 the metro areas so that's having a huge influence where we just don't have the guys in those 166 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:29,400 core towns that once had that steep tradition people are moving out they can't afford to 167 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,360 live there. 168 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,200 Now what about branding I heard you talking to Pete and you were talking about the firehouse 169 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:40,640 being you know one of the beacons in a community and the bay doors being up and it was interesting 170 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:45,040 because you were talking to a British firefighter as a fireman as a young boy growing up in 171 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,800 England I don't remember that being the case in the UK I mean a lot of us had paid on call 172 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:55,960 stations so they were all just locked up unless they had a fire so when we look back at the 173 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,920 old communities and the same could be said about the police officers that used to patrol 174 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:05,640 the streets and interact with the communities a lot more what mistakes have we made as far 175 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:12,920 as branding what we do because in 2024 the same questions come up you know why is there 176 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:17,480 a fire engine on my medical call or you guys just sit around the station playing cards 177 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,920 all day you know there's such a disconnect between what the men and women in uniform 178 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:26,160 actually do and still what a lot of civilians think we do. 179 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:31,240 I think that comes just through time we've lost the power of kindness you know kindness 180 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,720 in the fire service truly is everything because the public they don't know what we're doing 181 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,880 when we go beyond that threshold into a fire you know we go to the fire floor and the floor 182 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:43,640 is above the fire to fight that fire they have no concept what they do have a concept 183 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:49,040 of is is our kindness and how we portray who we are to them in the public having that that 184 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,400 bay door up in the firehouse it creates it part of the neighborhood we are the go-to 185 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,320 people yes when you're in trouble but it becomes that interaction with the children the kids 186 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:02,600 the kid comes by he wants his bike tire filled up or his basketball pumped up it's that interaction 187 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:08,560 and that's what we're losing like with everything even just we're becoming anti-social just 188 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:14,360 we're stuck in our phones we're stuck in this world of media and we're losing kindness and 189 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:20,080 I think that's where we're having challenges going into the next generation of firefighting 190 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:24,400 and I think that's how the public perceives us in a certain way like you said they don't 191 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,960 realize that an engine company will pull up they say we didn't call you we called an ambulance 192 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,760 but we're here to help you you know in your worst possible moment we're here as well and 193 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,840 that goes a long way and I do think that we're kind of losing that sense of of branding like 194 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:43,820 you said what about the impact of litigation because in my short career really I early 195 00:14:43,820 --> 00:14:48,080 on I was putting in car seats for example and then fast forward a few years we're told 196 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:52,120 oh you can't do that we might get sued if something happens and the same with you know 197 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,880 kids coming into the fire station like you said to fill up their tires or what if they 198 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,280 blow a tire and then they have a horrible fiery death you know it's all your fault I 199 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:04,360 can't help but feel like the fear of litigation has also become a big old brick wall to us 200 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:10,640 simply being community helpers yeah that's a good point and I think that is a problem 201 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,560 as well like at one time you see the old photos from the warriors and you know in New York 202 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:19,360 City and you would see at a fire 30 kids hanging on the rig you don't see that anymore you 203 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:24,280 know so you're right and I think that that that's ruining the fire service in the sense 204 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:30,040 where that litigation or the governmental side of of the job is trickling down into 205 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:35,280 the actual firehouse into the neighborhoods I think it's important though that we we remember 206 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:39,940 who we are and we remember that we're in the business of helping people we're in the business 207 00:15:39,940 --> 00:15:43,680 of kindness and when we lose that because of the fear of litigation we're losing what 208 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:49,760 we stand for absolutely well even I think the fear of litigation paralyzes us I would 209 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,720 say more on the EMS side so as a paramedic for example you know that's why you get these 210 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,600 cookbook medics these ones are right I've just got to do A B C and D because there's 211 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,440 a fear of critical thinking or there's a fear of taking a refusal because that person has 212 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,720 no business going to the hospital but your medical director is like we'll just take everyone 213 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,980 that way we don't you know we don't get sued well yeah but you just flooded people that 214 00:16:09,980 --> 00:16:13,800 shouldn't be in a hospital into a bunch of hospital beds and now you've got critical 215 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:19,480 patients waiting for one yeah and I I think the system is is incredibly broken because 216 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:26,040 of that even just the runs that they're sending us on now and that we may classify them as 217 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:31,560 nuisance runs but in reality they are calls for help but we have to understand that we 218 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:36,960 can't go on everything we can't be going on a new nosebleeds or or heartburn runs you 219 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:42,000 know like we got to go on cardiacs and major emergencies as far as the EMS side I think 220 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,640 this system really really is broken and there's no right answer because like you said the 221 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:50,240 litigation we're in fear of making the wrong decision so let's send them on everything 222 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,280 and let them make their own decisions absolutely well I mean there's always going to be that 223 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,120 one person that dies in the waiting room because they got triage probably you know improperly 224 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,480 there's always going to be that healthy person that dies from whatever virus they you know 225 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:08,200 say is is sweeping the nation this time that's gonna happen but we can't focus on the anomaly 226 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:13,120 the same way as you don't eradicate welfare because families abuse it in this corner of 227 00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:18,440 you know of your first due because that happens everywhere but you scrap an entire program 228 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:24,920 because of a few people that they ruin it or you know I just lost my fucking train of 229 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:31,880 thought then shit where the hell was I going with that yeah that was right the dying in 230 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:38,240 the waiting room so this fear of the what if ends up ruining it for a huge amount of 231 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,760 people and so we've got to just put our big boy and big girl pants on and say look this 232 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:47,720 might happen but this is still at the benefit of 99% of the people and we'll do everything 233 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:55,520 we can to address that 1% yeah I mean that's the EMSI even on the fire side we're being 234 00:17:55,520 --> 00:18:00,960 held back to make certain decisions this job is full of instinct and I think that when 235 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:05,360 you take the instinctual notion away from it that's where we make ourselves liable and 236 00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:09,720 it makes ourselves exposed to making those those mistakes we all make mistakes at everything 237 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,520 we do and I think that's from the litigation side of things we have to understand that 238 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,920 we're only human and there's human instinct and everything we do but we have to be able 239 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:22,400 to trust our instincts in that moment absolutely well going back to your early life then what 240 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:27,440 were you doing as far as sport and exercise when you were in the school years so I know 241 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:32,480 I did like every kid you know soccer basketball baseball but I really found a passion for 242 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:38,880 skateboarding the urban culture it was kind of I was drawn to it I don't know where it 243 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,560 came from I grew up in a small town an hour outside New York City but I think it just 244 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,560 came from being drawn from the influence was so strong having New York City and you know 245 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:51,800 being the shadow of New York City with that I found music so music was a very very large 246 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:56,720 part of my life that was right up until I came on the fire department even during to 247 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:02,200 this day I'm still part of that culture that seat of music but music really allowed me 248 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:08,040 to identify who I was I feel and express my artistic side and I think skateboarding has 249 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,600 kind of a free will or an artistic side as well that kind of pushed me forward into where 250 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:17,240 I am today even with the firefighting and you know top floor tactics with Instagram 251 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,640 and now the podcast it all comes from a creative angle and I think that creative angle was 252 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:27,080 birthed through those early years of skateboarding and music and that little punk rock like urban 253 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:32,200 scene that I was a part of I've had a lot of people a lot of very successful people 254 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:37,700 that have come through that kind of hardcore punk rock skateboarding group and it seems 255 00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:42,840 to be you know one of two groups either people that found themselves also in you know drinking 256 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:47,800 drugs etc but then also that straight edge lifestyle which was kind of new to me so the 257 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,720 first few people told me about it which of those two folks in the road did you find yourself 258 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:52,920 on? 259 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:58,920 So as a good question I definitely wouldn't class myself as straight edge but I didn't 260 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:04,160 partake I should say and only because my main focus in life was to become a New York City 261 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,880 fireman I knew I wanted to be in New York City fireman since I was probably seven or 262 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:12,480 eight years old even before that if I can remember that I didn't want to jeopardize 263 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:18,300 it so I found my escape from that scene through skateboarding and music yes it was a big part 264 00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:23,720 of that within the culture but I found my way to navigate the subculture of that society 265 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:29,780 of just doing my own thing focusing on my future and what I truly wanted to do I remember 266 00:20:29,780 --> 00:20:34,880 being on tour with my band and guys would hang out they would go over the bar they would 267 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,600 do this they would do that I would go find your local firehouse and knock on the door 268 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:43,240 and hang out like that's where my main focus was I knew that was my passion music was fun 269 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:48,120 I got to see the country doing it but my main focus and passion was firefighting and I did 270 00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:50,760 not want to jeopardize that. 271 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:57,320 A lot of us that came in certainly our generation and then before our generation the trades 272 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:01,560 were seen as a valuable asset to bring in as a firefighter I didn't I would say hand 273 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,720 on my heart I didn't really have a trade but grew up on a farm so at least I knew what 274 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:09,480 work was I was more of a breaker than a builder to be honest but you know I had that background 275 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,760 were you exposed to carpentry when you were growing up through your dad's work? 276 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:18,880 I was I started working with my dad when I was a young kid he went on to own a plumbing 277 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,960 warehouse as well here locally in town and I worked in the plumbing supply working you 278 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:28,800 know growing up cutting pipes, threading pipes so I did work with my hands I wouldn't say 279 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,680 I was very good at any of those things but he did show me the skill and the trade and 280 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:38,160 ultimately he showed me how more or less to be a man and that was the most thing that 281 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,620 took me moving forward becoming a firefighter it was like I always say if your father can 282 00:21:42,620 --> 00:21:45,760 make you a man I can make you a fireman that's what I tell the young kids when they come 283 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:50,280 in and he I feel he did a good job of doing that by allowing me to make my mistakes early 284 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:55,360 on he would give me pressures at job sites like drilling through these cabinets that 285 00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:59,080 are thousands and thousands of dollars and he trusts me to do that and make those mistakes 286 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:03,000 and then I make mistakes absolutely but it was okay and it was a learning process of 287 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,400 just getting better at what you did with small increments of mistake making. 288 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:12,200 We're going to jump right ahead because that's a great segue point. 289 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:17,600 I ended up working for four fire departments and then volunteering momentarily for a minute 290 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:22,880 to a minute time after I transitioned out of the fire service but it gave me a really 291 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:29,880 interesting perspective on you know a whole spectrum of teaching styles and individuals 292 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:35,560 and what I've realized is that of course there should be pressure in training and as you 293 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:40,000 kind of you know walk you know stand walk run when it comes to fire for fire service 294 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:46,040 skills the end result should be something that mirrors if not is worse than what we're 295 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,560 going to see out in the street however this screaming at people and belittling people 296 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:55,560 on the training ground seems to have the complete opposite yet it's a style that I've seen in 297 00:22:55,560 --> 00:23:00,040 a lot of academies and things based on certain individuals. 298 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:05,000 You are trusted by your father with this very very expensive cabinets and you said when 299 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:11,540 you made a mistake you obviously it was a lesson an opportunity for a lesson rather 300 00:23:11,540 --> 00:23:18,400 than getting screamed at so how did his teaching style apply to the way you viewed the academy 301 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,400 when you started teaching? 302 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,400 So I think there's a good cop bad cop type of teaching style that we need and that comes 303 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:30,440 from where I was a instructor where I still currently am pretty I'm here to hear is FDFD 304 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:35,560 my fire academy and we kind of have I feel they have it dialed in to a pretty good good 305 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:41,160 cop bad cop and I think that comes from the DIs we have they do a tremendous job of discipline 306 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:45,880 I don't think that discipline should be coming from an instructor or or someone passing on 307 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:52,600 the knowledge discipline comes from someone who's more of a disciplinary type image like 308 00:23:52,600 --> 00:24:00,280 a DI we parallel the Marine Corps and what we do as far as the training there so we have 309 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,920 to understand that learning comes from making a series of mistakes and everything we do 310 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:09,480 and especially in the fire service so allowing each other to make those mistakes comes from 311 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,620 accountability and I think when you own your mistake and you're accountable for everything 312 00:24:12,620 --> 00:24:18,680 you do that's how you progressively move forward but that teaching style that was developed 313 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,720 through the way I have taught my young firefighters did ultimately come from those early days 314 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,040 with my father allowing me to make those mistakes we come back we talk about them and then we 315 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,940 move forward and yeah are we going to make the mistakes again moving forward we might 316 00:24:30,940 --> 00:24:36,200 but it's okay because the more times we make the same mistake the less of an impact it'll 317 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,120 have. 318 00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:41,960 What I've seen in the worst departments that I've worked for I would argue I've worked 319 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:46,440 one of the best in the country and one of the worst I'll let people figure out which 320 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:53,760 home is which but is the good department really created an environment where you were almost 321 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:59,440 encouraged to fail and then you would regroup but then you would also redo the drill again 322 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,880 and again if need to be the bad ones no matter how you did they checked the box all right 323 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:09,120 we went through that evolution and they just moved on so I really love those environments 324 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:14,160 where you know as you've been talking about earlier about being a critical thinker where 325 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,720 you're given the courage given the environment if to steal a modern-day phrase almost the 326 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:23,480 safe space to make mistakes because no one is going to die on a drill ground however 327 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,880 conversely if it happens in real life that mistake that you could have ironed out on 328 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,840 the academy drill ground now got you and someone else killed. 329 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:38,720 Yeah and I just did a post the other day speaking of you know the training ground is just a 330 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:44,160 series of dress rehearsals for the fire ground and that's very important to think about 331 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:50,040 so when you have to make those those dress rehearsals when you get to real life they 332 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,920 have to count those moments have to count but the problem comes how do we introduce 333 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,840 stress into the situation and that's that's a problem we have in training today across 334 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:04,680 the board is that we can't duplicate stress so there's only so much training we can do 335 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,760 with the mistakes we can make and then we put the human factor like you said into this 336 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,720 and that's we make the real mistakes but that's what the real learning is done once we add 337 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,980 the real stress under human factor and how we how we react to that that's how we progressively 338 00:26:18,980 --> 00:26:22,640 truly and honestly move forward. 339 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:27,160 Well let's go to your entry to the fire service and I know you've been on about 26 years obviously 340 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,200 it wasn't all with the FDNY then so walk me through where you found yourself first and 341 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,200 what that initial academy was like for you. 342 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:39,080 So I just went to the basic I was 18 years old I think I was actually 17 when I got in 343 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,160 the basic county academy it wasn't much of learning going on any learning that I really 344 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,200 did there was kind of in-house when you go back to the firehouse I had some really great 345 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:52,080 mentors at a young age I was very very fortunate a lot of them were career city firefighters 346 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,400 that would come back and they were still volunteering their hometown and that was kind of the culture 347 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,520 and that's that's where a lot of my learning took place. 348 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:06,460 So that was my early training and then very quickly I moved on to the FDNY when I got 349 00:27:06,460 --> 00:27:10,460 on the job in New York City I was 23 years old so there was very a small gap of me actually 350 00:27:10,460 --> 00:27:14,280 being a volunteer fireman during that time am I a part of it to this day I mean to a 351 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:19,520 point my dad's very involved still so I still have a love for and a passion for those guys 352 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:27,080 but I've just I moved on and it comes from a lot from just having a family kids you know 353 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:34,480 you could you kind of got a prior to what you have time for in life but that early training 354 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,280 did set me over success but it somewhat set me up for failure when I did make it to the 355 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:46,600 FDNY and going to their academy they do things very different it's almost like I wish I had 356 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,960 no experience going in because they almost had to strip what you learned and then you 357 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,640 have to relearn it their way. 358 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,200 Yeah I can relate to that. 359 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:59,720 I had the East Coast Academy then worked for Hialeah which is north of Miami one of the 360 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,400 most incredible academies I've had orientations because they hired new certs as well non certs 361 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,760 excuse me so half of us already had our certs so while they went through all the fire and 362 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:13,160 EMT school they just beat us up on the draw ground for three months and it was phenomenal 363 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,280 then I went west coast and then we'll get into truck work in a minute east coast and 364 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,480 west coast when it came to truck work at least south Florida very very different so now I'm 365 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:28,240 having to relearn ladder throws and preset hose lays and all kinds of stuff so yeah it's 366 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,960 hard when you're trying to undo things that you've had drilled into you just so someone 367 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,760 else can drill a different way in. 368 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,320 Yeah and I think that's a good thing but that's what truly makes the FDNY the FDNY because 369 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:45,560 they have a certain way of doing things and there's a positioning factor behind that where 370 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:50,080 not every department solely relies on the importance of positioning. 371 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,240 I believe the fire ground is very similar to the game of chess for those of you that 372 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:59,600 study chess where like every move has a reflection to what happens seven moves later and you 373 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,640 kind of have to understand where you fit in in that moment and that's where the FDNY on 374 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,580 the tactical side of things they really really truly and honestly have it dialed in. 375 00:29:08,580 --> 00:29:13,760 So before we progress your journey into the rock and beyond when you look back and the 376 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,080 reason I ask this question is when it comes to the mental health conversation of all of 377 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:24,200 us anyone in uniform for example an FDNY firefighter who's struggling can say oh well you were 378 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:30,200 you were at ground zero you were at 9 11 that's why you're struggling now but there's a real 379 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,560 lack of conversation of what happened to us from birth through to when we put the uniform 380 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:39,960 on or arguably even prior to birth when you look back now were there any elements of your 381 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:46,320 upbringing that contributed to anything once you put the uniform on? 382 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,400 As far as real life stress? 383 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:53,680 Yeah just any kind of you know traumas or anything that you know would contribute because 384 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:59,040 this is a big part of the mental health conversation what happened before you were 20 21 25 you 385 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,760 know that needs to be addressed as well if we have someone struggling 10 15 20 years 386 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,920 into their career. 387 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,200 Yeah you know I've had some death early on in my life with close friends and I think 388 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,040 you know that's something that you know it's funny yes I never really speak about it it 389 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,920 just I just file it it's been filed for many many years but you know I lost some some friends 390 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:23,520 at an early age and you move on from it. 391 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:28,040 It's funny I've had the conversation with my wife recently where she's like you look 392 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,260 at death differently and I said why is that she's like you've just seen so much of it 393 00:30:32,260 --> 00:30:36,560 it doesn't even phase you anymore and I guess there's some truth to that but that did start 394 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,640 at an early age like you like you said and you know I never really thought about it in 395 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:48,120 that angle but I think it does help with our careers and the things we see but again I 396 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,880 don't know if it's just numbing the facts for the long run. 397 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,640 What I found and bearing in mind this is not my great epiphany that I had on my own this 398 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:03,800 is almost 900 conversations now is when addressed our challenges when we were younger can become 399 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,640 strengths and serve us well in uniform however if left unaddressed and pushed down that's 400 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:15,680 not saying that's what happened to you they can potentially be an amplifier of some other 401 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,560 things that we see so that I think this is the thing with the the mental health conversation 402 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:24,880 that post-traumatic growth needs to be really kind of pulled out to the front now we've 403 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,640 got rid of stigma we're all aware this is a thing but understanding that if we have 404 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,080 some things that we discover that we push down if we are able to process that whatever 405 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:39,400 that looks like from just talk therapy to you know psychedelics or dogs or whatever 406 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:45,840 it is the other side of that it absolutely becomes an asset but we have to really understand 407 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,640 that if we don't if it stays buried down then it's actually fracturing the foundation. 408 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:56,440 Yeah and I think with the mental health we've made tremendous leaps with that but I think 409 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,880 there's a fine line we have to be careful where it could be not not getting played out 410 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:07,960 I should say but it's a an opportunity for advancement for certain people by taking it 411 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,200 and running with it and not necessarily that everyone has has the wrong thing to do or 412 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:18,960 say but I don't think a lot of it is truly identifying what the real problems are and 413 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:23,040 moving forward taking people to the next level I think a lot of is for self-gratification 414 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,960 from these companies to come out that really have no education or backing behind what they're 415 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,240 doing but it's a hot topic in itself right now we have to be very careful with that. 416 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,800 Yeah I see that too the predatory you know business practices of some of these people 417 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,840 and this is it I think when you put hope back in that post-traumatic growth now it's not 418 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,800 oh how am I going to live with it it's oh wow you know I can be better version of myself 419 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:51,480 on the other end and that I don't think it's one of those things where we don't actually 420 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:56,200 need that many resources we just need to show these men and women that they have this incredible 421 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,400 toolbox and destigmatize some of the therapies it might be psychedelics at work for some 422 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:06,120 people and it certainly has in a lot of the the uniform profession so well that being 423 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:11,640 said I know and please correct me if I'm wrong that as you entered FDNY it kind of spanned 424 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:17,120 to 9-eleven so walk me through you know you actually getting a spot your time in the academy 425 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,480 and then your 9-eleven story. 426 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:26,580 Yeah so this was a time of the job where it's kind of a gray area it's unspoken of no one 427 00:33:26,580 --> 00:33:30,520 really asked about no one really talks about it because there was only there's only a few 428 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:36,320 of us that lived it and we don't really talk about it because we were that that we were 429 00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,400 on the hump it was always the before and the after and that's how we look at this job it's 430 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:46,320 almost like before Christ after Christ it's before the Trade Center after the Trade Center 431 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,520 I was the bullseye in the center of it with the generation of the guys that I came on 432 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:59,000 the job with we were supposed to get sworn in right before the 11th and it got pushed 433 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,760 back because it happened and then we went in a few weeks after we were in the academy 434 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,360 very quickly rushed to the academy and then assigned to our firehouses and that was a 435 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:13,520 whole different way of this job but no one really speaks of walking into these firehouses 436 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,400 fresh out of Provie school with only a few weeks of training because the training is 437 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:22,700 23 weeks 18 weeks depending I think we did a total of I don't remember six seven weeks 438 00:34:22,700 --> 00:34:27,720 and then put us right out to the field because they needed us so those moments of walking 439 00:34:27,720 --> 00:34:33,040 into firehouses that lost firefighters that lost officers that lost the heart and soul 440 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,320 of everything they've ever lived for it was a really hard thing to do some of the guys 441 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:44,120 looked at you and they look to you with disbelief like I cannot believe you're here why would 442 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,700 you ever ever take this job and then you had other guys that completely embraced you and 443 00:34:48,700 --> 00:34:51,840 loved you and cried that you were there and they were so happy that you came because they 444 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,760 never thought anyone ever come again I heard you just touched on that with Pete and it 445 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,900 really resonated with me and it reminded me of if you don't know if you've ever seen the 446 00:35:00,900 --> 00:35:05,160 band or brothers show but there's the one episode called the replacements and these 447 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:10,840 are obviously men that are filling the roles of people that you know you learn to you come 448 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,520 to know about when it came to the show so as a soldier in this case you know in Europe 449 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:21,160 you know your best friend has been killed and now another guy shows up so elaborate 450 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,840 on that a little bit more what what was that spectrum of feelings because there's there's 451 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:29,320 got to have been a dichotomy of relief that another person is here to fill the seat but 452 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,680 also almost resentment that this person is supposedly filling the spot of one of their 453 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:39,840 close friends yeah so that was that was very real and it depended who you who you talk 454 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:45,960 to so I kind of lost the experience of being like a young new probationary firefighter 455 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,560 in the New York City Fire Department it's the only thing I ever wanted to do like I 456 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:54,360 said since I was six seven ten years old it's the only thing I knew and when you walk into 457 00:35:54,360 --> 00:36:02,040 that moment it's like you never truly understand or learned the real firehouse culture the 458 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:08,240 real right thing to do quote unquote because everybody was mourning and there was no teaching 459 00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:14,160 going on some guys would pull you aside some guys wouldn't even look at you so it was an 460 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,160 emotional rollercoaster every time you went to work but every time you went to work we 461 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,580 were still going out the door and going to fires and learning the fire side of things 462 00:36:20,580 --> 00:36:25,560 but we lost in that translation was the firehouse life side of things that's where the real 463 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:30,360 challenge was and that's what's something that when I went on throughout my career it 464 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,600 took some time for me to learn what the right thing that was to do I would never would do 465 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,580 the wrong thing but when someone doesn't tell you what the right thing is there's a bit 466 00:36:38,580 --> 00:36:44,080 of a gap there so talk to me about what you observed then from the healing point of view 467 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:50,280 I mean you were there at the rawest time you know in FDNY history basically how did you 468 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:55,840 observe you know that your brothers and sisters start to heal after that incredible tragedy 469 00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:04,480 you know we were going to funerals every weekend and if you were in the firehouse you were 470 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:09,360 at a funeral and that went on for you for still going on to be honest with you but for 471 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:16,720 those initial few months it was every day the funerals weren't the normal funeral you 472 00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:22,160 would go to because it wasn't the sea of firemen because we had multiple funerals a day we 473 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,360 had to go to and when I say we it was just the fire service not just FDNY because everybody 474 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:32,680 stepped up and did the right thing from the entire world everyone showed up and there's 475 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,840 something we can talk about later is how I feel we're getting away from doing the right 476 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:41,600 thing about funerals but that's where I saw healing was those moments after you know the 477 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:47,160 coalition or the party after there'd always be one it wouldn't be how it was or how it 478 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:52,400 is today so much but there would still be some camaraderie some brotherhood some social 479 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:57,880 interaction and you could see they're trying to get back to what the job was about and 480 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:03,560 as a young firefighter observing this you saw the brotherhood come to life again not 481 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:10,040 in the most beautiful moments of saving a life or going to metal day and those parties 482 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,120 after that but it just putting your arm around someone and saying it's okay to cry and you 483 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:19,840 saw these big tough burly guys with these mustaches a lot of them Vietnam vets doing 484 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:24,360 that and that was a nice way for me to see the job is still alive. 485 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:29,560 Yeah it's something that you know people I don't think can understand that ripple effect 486 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,920 of course we had the day of course you know there was the search on the pile and there 487 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:38,220 was the rebuilding but to completely gut a fire department of all that knowledge and 488 00:38:38,220 --> 00:38:43,920 experience and in some cases an entire shift in a station I mean the the ripple effect 489 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,240 we're talking decades. 490 00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:55,640 Yeah I mean I did my career in the Bronx which is north of Manhattan it really wasn't affected 491 00:38:55,640 --> 00:39:00,720 by September 11th the special operations commands yesterday were affected but as far as the 492 00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:05,840 regular companies everybody knew someone but those companies weren't wiped out it was Manhattan 493 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:12,920 stat now in Brooklyn they they were the the burrows that really got devastated and when 494 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:17,320 I came back to the academy like you said the replacements I went right to an engine company 495 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:23,480 in Hell's Kitchen which was the midtown west south side of of the city they lost five guys 496 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:28,320 and the captain and the firehouse that we were assigned to because they were doing work 497 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,720 in that firehouse they lost everybody so I don't know the total amount of guys that were 498 00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:37,000 lost that day from the one firehouse but it was more than you can ever imagine and three 499 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:38,680 companies wiped out. 500 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:45,120 The ripple effect is that is that everywhere you go now so now being an officer in Manhattan 501 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,840 I take the details and I do the overtime and the other firehouses and every firehouse 502 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:54,320 has a memorial and that ripple effect is that memorial every firehouse I go into and I always 503 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:59,560 always take a moment to pause and say a little prayer and just just reflect for for some 504 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:04,440 of just for a moment and that's something where we have to keep that alive for the next 505 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,720 generation because now the kids are coming on this job that ripple effect with those 506 00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:12,200 monuments or those memorials we cannot forget we can't forget who those brothers are on 507 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:16,840 the wall every firehouse I go into you have the line of duty deaths on the wall guys from 508 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:23,800 the 1800s all the way up to the current day but there's always a special memorial for 509 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,800 their brothers that were lost on September 11th and and we have to maintain those memorials 510 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:33,480 we have to keep them tip-top shape because for some of the families that's all they have 511 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,880 left so when they do come by the firehouse which isn't so often anymore but when they 512 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:42,840 do come by the firehouse it has to be presentable it has to be honored it has to be front and 513 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:48,120 center it's so important to keep telling the story because as someone pointed out recently 514 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:52,240 that you know all the the young people now that are entering the military weren't even 515 00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:58,080 born when 9-11 happened and now we're losing Vietnam veterans I think we literally got 516 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,760 a handful of of uh sorry not Vietnam excuse me World War II veterans I just interviewed 517 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,360 two of them in November but I mean we're talking about men that are in you know they're 518 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:11,240 late late 90s early 100s now so clearly obviously they're not going to be around for much longer 519 00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:16,200 too so it's imperative that we tell the story now I think there's there's a kind of resistance 520 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:22,080 to what someone would phrase as depressing but that's how we learn you know yesterday 521 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:26,520 was the anniversary of the Parkland shooting here in Florida it's Valentine's Day yeah 522 00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,640 but we also need to remind ourselves of these tragedies otherwise they're going to keep 523 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:35,560 happening and it's the same with 9-11 I actually had the honor of climbing One World Trade 524 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:40,760 with Rob Jones who's a Marine that was lost both his legs and he bear crawled all the 525 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,880 way up I walked in gym shorts because they wouldn't let me wear my gear because of security 526 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:50,600 reasons but to watch this guy who'd lost his legs in response to this very attack in the 527 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:56,480 building that was now built to replace obviously the the towers and then taking my son to the 528 00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:01,760 9-11 memorial it's just it's it is absolutely imperative that we keep telling this story 529 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,920 and if you weren't born I wasn't born you know when World War II happened it's up to 530 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:11,760 us the the adults to mentor and teach and and explain the why not only the reaction 531 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:17,380 to the tragedy but to try in some way shape or form be a part of the solution so it doesn't 532 00:42:17,380 --> 00:42:25,920 happen again as well yeah and as far as the rebuilding of of Laurel Manhattan and the 533 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:32,240 monument and the memorials it's great for people to come and visit and it's a good place 534 00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:37,680 for to learn to educate the next generations to come but what people have to understand 535 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:42,280 when they come to New York City to visit that and usually it's around September 11th you 536 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:47,200 know people fly in they do the walks and all the and all the monuments and it's a really 537 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:54,040 nice day but it's definitely not a party and I went to the 20th anniversary for the sunset 538 00:42:54,040 --> 00:43:00,920 down at the Trade Center at the Freedom Tower and you know I was I was pretty upset I was 539 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:05,880 disgusted to see how it became a party it wasn't St. Patrick's Day it was September 540 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:13,360 11th and we can't lose sight that when you come to New York City on September 11th to 541 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:19,600 show your support to honor those that have fallen it's not one day for us we live it 542 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:24,120 every day and that's what we have to remember that it's not a party the people from New 543 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:28,280 York City we live it every day it's not just one day of remembrance it's a day that we 544 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,880 live absolutely well I think Memorial Day is another good example of that yeah it's 545 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,520 all chicken wings and football rather than what we're actually supposed to be remembering 546 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:43,880 yeah so talk to me then about your journey as a pro be and a rookie firefighter then you 547 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:48,440 know you've explained the kind of what the landscape looks like you've lost some of these 548 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:53,160 incredible minds others are so deep in their grief that they're just not mentoring at that 549 00:43:53,160 --> 00:44:01,280 point how were you able to start building yourself as a young firefighter so I often 550 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:07,680 say that I feel that you know good people gravitate to great places and when I first 551 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:15,480 got my assignment I did not want to work in an engine in Manhattan it just no it's a flavor 552 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,640 right so every borough has a different flavor that's not the flavor I was looking for my 553 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,880 dream was to go to the Bronx and work work in the engine company in the Bronx now looking 554 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:28,360 back what a blessing in disguise because I learned so much from those early years from 555 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:33,960 working with those men that lost their brothers and watching them rebuild and being a part 556 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:39,720 of that my probie school we had a slogan and every every probie class has a t-shirt they 557 00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:45,320 make at the end and it is we will strive to rebuild what could never be replaced and there's 558 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,720 so much power in that because every one of us in that class we strived as hard as we 559 00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:55,600 could to rebuild what could never be replaced 20 years later as we navigated this crazy 560 00:44:55,600 --> 00:45:01,840 job of ours we remade the shirt and it says we have rebuilt what could never be replaced 561 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:07,720 and I truly believe that by those firefighters that were coming in that were grieving they 562 00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:12,400 showed us a different side of this job a different side of humanity that allowed us to be different 563 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:17,960 types of firefighters every firefighter in New York City is educated if they're trained 564 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:23,160 they go to fires you know they're into the job but there was a very small portion of 565 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:29,360 us that saw that human grief early on when something that was not even spoken about I 566 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:33,840 think that kind of molded my career and allowed me to understand going back to the power of 567 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:39,840 kindness that that truly develops who we are and that was the motivation I had to navigate 568 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:44,480 my career to the next level which is understanding that kindness truly is the ultimate factor 569 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:49,440 see that mirror is something I talk about all the time and even in the mental health 570 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:56,520 conversation when we enter the fire service it wouldn't yeah it's not a deep psychoanalysis 571 00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:01,080 to understand that it's kindness and compassion that sends us into a job where we serve a 572 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:06,380 job we risk our lives to serve but for some of us that were kind of raised on the boys 573 00:46:06,380 --> 00:46:10,600 don't cry rub some dirt in it you know don't be a pussy kind of mentality and I'm not talking 574 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:16,400 about you graze your knee I'm talking about raw real a human emotion there was a shift 575 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:22,120 where I always talk about the yin yang we kind of lost the the black part and end up 576 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:28,360 becoming a white circle all all hard and I think a good reminder for men that struggle 577 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:33,160 to show emotion be vulnerable is that it was kindness and compassion it was that soft side 578 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:38,240 that sent you into the uniform and if you lose that during your career that's a huge 579 00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:42,640 red flag because you've you've got to be able to offload the trauma that we see every day 580 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:47,880 and you've got to be able to forgive yourself if you made mistakes as well yeah you know 581 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,460 a friend of mine I just heard him recently say something and it kind of struck a nerve 582 00:46:51,460 --> 00:46:59,800 with me he said that don't be a prick and that pricks hide behind insecurities in the 583 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,280 fire service and there's so much truth to that and you can really dive into that and 584 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:09,600 talk about it that I think a lot of the insecurities that we have as firefighters we hide behind 585 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:14,440 that fact of that we can't accept kindness when you accept kindness you're vulnerable 586 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,680 right and that's what a lot of these guys that aren't doing the right thing or they're 587 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:22,520 not navigating their career the right way they're hiding behind something and that's 588 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:27,080 an insecurity of lacking kindness and I think that kindness to compassion truly ultimately 589 00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:31,520 is what we are as firefighters that's that's the business we're in yeah well I think that's 590 00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:36,160 strength as well like to of course you have to be physically able whether you're you know 591 00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:40,680 making entry in a fire or stopping someone beating up his girlfriend whatever it is that 592 00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:46,640 physicality is important but that kindness that vulnerability that compassion is the 593 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:51,580 real mark of a man you might back it up with your physicality but that compassion is everything 594 00:47:51,580 --> 00:47:57,000 the the desire to want to help people and use your physicality comes from kindness and 595 00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:02,680 compassion well you mentioned about initially being assigned to an engine crew talk to me 596 00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:10,960 about your journey from engine to truck so the engine company in the fdny it's uh we 597 00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:17,760 have as son may think we're overstaffed but there's an element of understanding that within 598 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:22,840 the engine company everyone has a role but it's company integrity which is key and that 599 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:28,800 comes from understanding that the stretch especially in a major city like new york has 600 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:34,880 to be so dialed in and we can't have any margin for mistakes so with the engine it's kind 601 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:40,880 of I mean let's be honest the fdny we're we're more of a truck oriented job right but the 602 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:46,840 engine we they kind of get dismissed many times so the gravitation going from the engine 603 00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:51,280 the truck is it's common but we can't lose sight that the engine company is like the 604 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:56,240 infantry of the fire service always progressively moving forward there was so much to learn 605 00:48:56,240 --> 00:49:00,280 about that and there were so many mistakes that not so much in stretching the line that 606 00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:08,140 was made but mistakes of just so much understanding where you fit in i guess but the mistakes 607 00:49:08,140 --> 00:49:12,200 have to be very minimal to when you go to the truck and that was something i learned 608 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:16,440 in the engine company was discipline and how disciplined you have to be to get that line 609 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:23,560 into position unfortunately we do ems in the engine and that's a big turn off and that's 610 00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,840 what pushes a lot of guys away from being in that engine is getting away from doing 611 00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:32,560 the ems runs and because not everybody are paramedics in new york you know we do a different 612 00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:38,820 way we do a cfr like a certified first responder type thing but this system is broken so like 613 00:49:38,820 --> 00:49:42,320 i said earlier like they're putting us on too many runs it's getting guys to leave the 614 00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:46,880 engine too early and when we leave the engine too early we're not understanding timing and 615 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:52,620 i think timing on the fire ground ultimately is everything and that parlays or that that 616 00:49:52,620 --> 00:49:59,120 parallels the truck side of things is understanding timing is it a recent move that you started 617 00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:03,760 doing the ems response to has that been for a while now no it's been since i've been on 618 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:10,960 the job it just it fluctuates in the on what on what calls they're putting us on during 619 00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:15,960 covid it was very modified and it almost made sense like listen i have no problem going 620 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:20,760 on on on any medical run there is i want to help people that say again that's the business 621 00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:26,400 for him but we have to be able to look at things with some common sense here like why 622 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,440 are we putting an engine company out of service for a nose bleed when someone could be having 623 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,640 a heart attack around the corner or the fire gate blowing out three windows and people 624 00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:37,840 trapped and you're stuck in a nosebleed waiting in a nose for 20 minutes i mean the system 625 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:46,720 is broken uh what's the fix to that i don't know but that's that's ultimately what is 626 00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:55,320 killing the engine slowly one thing positive one thing that came out of covid um was from 627 00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,080 what i understand at least then i don't know if that's trying to tighten it up again but 628 00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:03,000 was loosening the um in a virtual medicine element and obviously a lot of people were 629 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:08,400 doing these you know e-consultations with physicians and i had one guy on the show who 630 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,560 was talking about this technology which i think is genius and i truly think it would 631 00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:16,960 eliminate a lot of these responses that aren't emergencies they're just not an ambulance 632 00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:22,600 should be not going to it but the person calls 911 they go through the series of you know 633 00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:27,280 um emd questions obviously making sure it's not a cardiac arrest or something that warrants 634 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:32,680 and a 911 response and then they ask the person well we have you know we have an ambulance 635 00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:38,280 we can send to you or we can give you a video consultation with the er physician a lot of 636 00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:42,760 people are going to go oh a doctor oh oh yeah i'll talk to the doctor then and they can 637 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:48,040 literally you know give them a diagnosis over video again within reason they can you know 638 00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:52,520 prescribe meds to a local pharmacy as you know now uber will send you you know your 639 00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:57,240 meds to your house if you need to and so the febrile two-year-old or like you said the 640 00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:01,280 nose bleed now they've been told to put their head down and pinch and you know use ice or 641 00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:07,520 whatever else and now it's stopped so you haven't woken up a crew for a for a call you 642 00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:12,920 freed up a bed in the er that never got filled with a bullshit call and that person that 643 00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:18,880 called 911 their medical bill is going to be a lot smaller than if they've been transported 644 00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:24,480 that's genius i wish that new york city would adapt that because that really is um that'd 645 00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:29,920 be a game changer really because i mean we have companies doing over 6000 runs a year 646 00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:35,760 and and there's no no relief in sight and i'm not i'm not saying we shouldn't we should 647 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:43,940 do less we should just prioritize what we're doing absolutely of my whole career i saved 648 00:52:43,940 --> 00:52:49,720 the most lives in a rescue what we call rescue ambulance with fire gear on but the most fun 649 00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:55,360 job i did was a tillerman for anaheim fire department on on the truck company um talk 650 00:52:55,360 --> 00:53:01,000 to me about your experience from you know as you've got this experience now on the on 651 00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:05,560 the nozzle in the engine on the engine excuse me and that transition to the truck what was 652 00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:11,360 your experience initially for that so that was a natural i guess progression of my career 653 00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:19,520 um you know i get to a certain point where you want more right so the engine again i 654 00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,560 mean the engine's the job like i just kind of beat up the engine i want to take it back 655 00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:26,560 some things i said there but i kind of beat them up but the engine is the job that's the 656 00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:32,160 core and pride tradition of of of any fire service of that engine company um but you 657 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,920 want a little bit more you want a little bit more responsibility you want to be able to 658 00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:40,920 think on your feet so i see the truck it's more of a dance where the engine's more a 659 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:46,160 cadence and and that's the difference where when you're ready to go do a ballroom dance 660 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:51,220 and it's time to go over the truck and that progression from the engine the truck again 661 00:53:51,220 --> 00:53:56,480 comes from understanding timing and with us earlier like i was saying the fmy everything 662 00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:02,200 comes down to positioning and with the truck company you're responsible to make your position 663 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:06,600 and there's and there's no way about it you have to make that position and that's the 664 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:12,600 responsibility of the truck which i think draws a lot of guys to the next step talk 665 00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:17,400 to me then about vertical ventilation again i got a interesting perspective we got next 666 00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:24,760 to no roof training in my academy in orlando um i think we cut some pallets in in hialia 667 00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:31,240 and then i go out west and then it's one year of intense you know roof operation training 668 00:54:31,240 --> 00:54:35,520 building construction i mean it was it was absolutely intense and their attrition rate 669 00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:40,960 was 25 so if you didn't make it it was just tough shit you you were gone but then i come 670 00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:47,100 back to florida and i hear people say oh you know we don't get in the roofs here in florida 671 00:54:47,100 --> 00:54:51,800 because our buildings are uh you know lightweight truss construction and i remember thinking 672 00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:56,760 well the whole building is made of wood in in california so you start to see some of 673 00:54:56,760 --> 00:55:01,400 these fairy tales that certain departments tell themselves out of a textbook no actual 674 00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:07,200 real lived experience at all so not so much in fdny because obviously you're being groomed 675 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:11,760 by the very department that you work for but as you started traveling what is your observation 676 00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:17,040 of some of the different uh perspectives of vertical ventilation you're hearing from some 677 00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:24,440 of these other departments so again this is something i i feel it gets debated often and 678 00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:29,920 i think that people that are debating it don't truly understand the concept of science behind 679 00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:37,300 it we always hear the term coordinated attack but i'm not sure that people truly understand 680 00:55:37,300 --> 00:55:44,620 or can accept what we're in coordination with again going back to timing everything in life 681 00:55:44,620 --> 00:55:49,460 as well as on the fire floor floors above from the engine to the roof man it's about 682 00:55:49,460 --> 00:55:54,760 timing but timing is incredibly hard right so we always hear the argument about staffing 683 00:55:54,760 --> 00:56:02,280 so that kind of for me makes me look at when we're putting members on the roof but we're 684 00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:06,880 not getting that first line into operation it makes me question that just a little bit 685 00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:12,800 so through my travels we'll talk and people have this truck culture quote unquote but 686 00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:21,240 they're not understanding the truck mindset that sometimes venting entering and searching 687 00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:27,120 the most occupied areas in these buildings will save more lives than cutting any hole 688 00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:31,440 in a roof that's not timed or coordinated properly again going back to timing so traveling 689 00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:35,400 around hearing that i get a lot of the questions back to me saying well how come new york city 690 00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:39,720 how come you guys don't cut peak roof private dwellings and that's my exact answer i think 691 00:56:39,720 --> 00:56:44,380 it's about timing and then they talk about staffing well you're the most staff department 692 00:56:44,380 --> 00:56:48,760 in the world and exactly right and we're still not putting the man on the roof because we 693 00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:53,240 feel that we can't time it properly and we can save more lives by ves in the most occupied 694 00:56:53,240 --> 00:57:00,720 areas time and place for cutting a peak roof private dwelling absolutely but i don't think 695 00:57:00,720 --> 00:57:06,440 that every fire needs to be cut and i'm traveling around like you said i'm seeing people cut 696 00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:10,240 roofs where they don't have to be cut a lot of times water is on the fire and then you 697 00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:15,480 see them cutting the roof again sometimes we need to cut that roof but i don't think 698 00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:22,320 it's as often as we're seeing guys do it i've seen a complete aversion to cutting a tool 699 00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:27,200 and again you know depending on the fire depending on on the the building construction you know 700 00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:31,840 i've seen i've been on the nozzle while the truck ops have been working and all of a sudden 701 00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:35,800 you can just stand up it's incredible you can see everything and then vice versa obviously 702 00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:40,200 i've been on the roof when you know ball of fire comes out and we're helping out the guys 703 00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:45,480 below us but what blows me away is this kind of black or white oh we don't do vertical 704 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:51,520 ventilation but then they'll still put two companies under that roof rather than as you 705 00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:56,600 said coordinated wise if the fire's not ready out give them a chimney get rid of a lot of 706 00:57:56,600 --> 00:58:03,080 that super heat a gas and uh and smoke so therefore now you've made it you know much 707 00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:08,840 more tenable hopefully for a victim if nothing else for the crews inside yeah so backing 708 00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:13,600 up we cut flat roofs we just don't cut peak roof so we're always putting at least two 709 00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:20,240 roof men on the roof for a flat roof um taxpayer commercial building uh a multiple dwelling 710 00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,760 a private dwelling anytime we have a flat roof we're cutting that roof the fire's on 711 00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:28,480 the top floor that's very important that we're doing that like you said we have to vent that 712 00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:32,240 allow the companies to get in the position and put water on the fire again the timing 713 00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:36,560 is very important though so uh that's why again going back to positioning and how important 714 00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:42,280 that is i don't think that we can truly coordinate this attack if we're running certain departments 715 00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:48,200 that don't have rotting positions with assignments are already um pre-planned before you arrive 716 00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,560 you can't get there and say what do you want me to do chief oh i want you to cut the roof 717 00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,560 that should be something where you're off the rig and you're already on your way to 718 00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:58,400 cut the roof before it's even considered you know what i mean so i think that's another 719 00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:02,800 thing that we're losing sight of is that people want to have this quote unquote truck culture 720 00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,800 we need the truck mindset to understand we need to gain position on the fire in a timely 721 00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:11,520 fashion and then do your duties but understanding your duties before we get there is very very 722 00:59:11,520 --> 00:59:17,600 important the best department i worked for was anaheim and they actually work very closely 723 00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:21,600 with you guys a lot of things that we did there were learned from you you know and we 724 00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:25,840 had rotting positions and we and we just drilled and drilled and drilled and drilled and i 725 00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:29,520 think that's the missing piece if you're going to have a truck company you've got to understand 726 00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:34,760 that that's a full-time job with a huge amount of you know hard training there's no way you 727 00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:38,500 know climbing climbing aerials and getting up there with saws and and pounding your way 728 00:59:38,500 --> 00:59:43,280 to to make a heat hole or strip whatever it is you're doing you've got to actually do 729 00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:47,440 those those over and over and over again and they had a training tower and we would cut 730 00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:53,960 you know multiple times a month over and over and over again the worst place i work for 731 00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:58,560 we had the station that had the engine and the truck and you would basically if they 732 00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:03,920 needed a truck you put your gear on that truck i never had any training at all any sort of 733 01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:07,400 truck company operations the only way i would have not died is what i've been taught prior 734 01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:12,000 to that so those are the two spectrums that i see if you're going to have a truck company 735 01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:16,400 you've got to understand the high high level of training that you need to be effective 736 01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:22,200 on that vehicle you know we always talk about work life balance and this is something that 737 01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:26,320 gets thrown around often i say oh we gotta have a work life balance i don't believe in 738 01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:30,160 that when you're a fireman you're a fireman and you're through and through um yeah you 739 01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:33,080 need to spend time with your kids and your wife here and there you got to turn it off 740 01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:37,880 but for instance this morning my firehouse they had a fire there was a photo of our outside 741 01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:42,240 vent firefighter on the fire escape fire blowing out the windows and they had five guys to 742 01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:46,120 my firehouse send me the picture what do you think and we start a conversation and we're 743 01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:50,280 talking about it none of us are at work we're wishing we're at work right now we're missing 744 01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:55,400 the fire but we're talking about the fire that's important so you say the training you 745 01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:59,520 know and the drilling it never truly ends and especially more so when you're in the 746 01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:03,920 truck because it is about the position you can always have the conversation how would 747 01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:07,360 you get here or what would you do to get there and then when you get there it's always the 748 01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:11,880 same job when you get there as far as breaking the window cutting the roof whatever it is 749 01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:16,360 as far as the science of ventilation but the mission of getting there that's something 750 01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:19,840 that can always be debated and that's important we do that and it's important we talk about 751 01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:25,040 that because that's where there's room for mistakes and that's where mistakes are made 752 01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:29,680 but those are okay mistakes to make as long as we identify them and discuss them and then 753 01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:34,400 collectively move forward from that going back to the engine no room for mistakes we 754 01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:38,200 can't stretch short we have to get water on the fire so that's the difference between 755 01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:43,920 the two but talking about getting that position is incredibly important. 756 01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:48,240 I've heard you talk about this and I know this is one of the topics that you teach in 757 01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:53,520 you know top floor tactics but again when you've done four academies east and west coast 758 01:01:53,520 --> 01:01:58,080 you get a you know slightly different gypsy view of the fire service than someone who 759 01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:02,720 you know got hired in one place and stayed their whole career and for example the way 760 01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:08,380 that we were taught to raise a 24 in Florida was you kind of lay it on the floor you pick 761 01:02:08,380 --> 01:02:12,280 it up suitcase carry you lay it flat on the floor again in front of the building and then 762 01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:17,640 you raise the rungs up and then you turn it and all these things and then you go to California 763 01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:21,120 and now all of a sudden you're taught high shoulder throws and all these things and you 764 01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:26,360 realize how much more versatile are there and how unrealistic that academy where I was 765 01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:30,960 taught was in the real world because there's no place with nothing in the way of a building 766 01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:35,120 you know there's cars and hedges and fences and all these things and then you know you 767 01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:40,160 look at even car fires like for the my whole career it was we put water on a car well that's 768 01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:45,840 a class b fire with a metal frame it's tires and fuel tanks and all the things so there's 769 01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:51,640 a disconnect sometimes I think between the academy in the real world another one Hialeah 770 01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:56,800 did really well which is the one I work for in Miami their tower was chock full of they 771 01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:00,480 had cupboards in there they had furniture and all kinds of stuff so when you were doing 772 01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:04,760 hose management you had to truly manage the hose around all these obstacles and stairs 773 01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:10,280 and corners whereas a lot of the other academies it was a big empty concrete room with a pallet 774 01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:15,380 and a bale of hay and you know congratulations you just put the fire out so that was a huge 775 01:03:15,380 --> 01:03:20,160 monologue to set up the question but talk to me about what you've observed between academy 776 01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:24,820 and real world and are we setting our young recruits up for failure by the way that we're 777 01:03:24,820 --> 01:03:29,560 teaching sometimes absolutely I think we are and I think that's a problem now I don't know 778 01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:34,680 if there's a solution to as far as the academy side because I don't truly believe in the 779 01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:39,160 conversation a lot of times you have as an instructor with the students saying okay we'll 780 01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:42,240 learn this for the test and when you get to your firehouse you're going to learn the right 781 01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:46,720 way to do things they'll show you how to do it is your truth to that unfortunately yes 782 01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:50,720 but I don't think that's the right way to doing it because not everyone has the opportunity 783 01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:55,720 to go back to that firehouse with those motivated young and guys with tradition pride training 784 01:03:55,720 --> 01:04:00,320 all these things not everyone has that ability to go to that busy firehouse not everyone 785 01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:04,140 has the ability in the volunteer world to go back to your hometown if that hometown 786 01:04:04,140 --> 01:04:09,080 department doesn't have these these good training mechanisms in place you're lost it's a dead 787 01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:13,780 end street especially for a young motivated firefighter so I think we are setting up our 788 01:04:13,780 --> 01:04:19,680 firefighters for failure you mentioned the latter I think it's a great example what we're 789 01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:25,420 not teaching and with all these hands-on academies or these hands-on excuse me the hands-on conferences 790 01:04:25,420 --> 01:04:29,960 are great and they're all over there they're all over the country I think it's a good thing 791 01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,360 for the fire service but we have to be careful when we're going to these hands-on training 792 01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:38,840 that we can't lose sight of the theory behind the task we're doing going back to the ground 793 01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:45,320 ladder like you said testable points logically speaking 75 degree climbing pattern fly out 794 01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:51,840 things we get tested on in real life instinctual notion human instinct very very different 795 01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:57,640 and I think that's something we have to talk about more so is that that ground ladder that's 796 01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:02,840 simply a bridge to gaining position on the fire the task is not throwing the ladder the 797 01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:07,200 task is getting into that building and doing your search coming back out that building 798 01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:12,420 if you have to sometimes head first if fire chases you know or risking you civilian portable 799 01:05:12,420 --> 01:05:18,720 ground ladders are for the brothers and sisters yes on arrival for civilians but that changes 800 01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:23,440 very quickly again time is a tool in everything we do I think that's got to be drilled at 801 01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:27,840 the young firefighters or two if as well as if we can manipulate time and use it as a 802 01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:32,840 tool everything kind of falls into place but we can't get caught up in having to throw 803 01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:36,720 that ground ladder at 75 degrees because maybe you can't do it because there's a parked 804 01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:42,260 car or there's an alley or there's some wires get the ladder up again it's just a bridge 805 01:05:42,260 --> 01:05:49,480 to gain position on the fire forcible entry we have the door props great mechanism or 806 01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:54,000 tool to learn the theory of how to force the door how to hold the tool but what we're not 807 01:05:54,000 --> 01:06:00,160 discussing is 10 feet inside that door that's ultimately what we're there to do that door 808 01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:05,700 isn't the task the task is to gain position on the fire that task or that ability to force 809 01:06:05,700 --> 01:06:11,160 the door you're just conquering the obstacle you know there's a quote out there obstacles 810 01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:16,600 the way forward that's a stellar quote but it really in the fire service everything is 811 01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:20,280 the obstacle is the way forward if you're going in that window taking that window that 812 01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:24,920 jumps the obstacle to gain forward position on the fire forcing the front door it's the 813 01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:29,040 obstacle to gain forward position on the fire and that's something we're not teaching or 814 01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:35,160 talking about in the fire academies or in the hands-on conferences I see a lot of shiny 815 01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:39,080 object videos of dudes in gym shorts and the helmet because I've got to make sure everyone 816 01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:44,080 knows they're a firefighter doing a door prop and then that's it then they stop and it's 817 01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:48,200 the same way I feel about you know high-rise training and all these other ones what we're 818 01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:55,360 missing is the discussion also on firefighter fitness and strength and the incredible you 819 01:06:55,360 --> 01:07:00,120 know suffering that you experience in full gear with a pack because I mean the heat the 820 01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:05,160 inability to offload heat is a big part too so everyone can look great on Instagram when 821 01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:10,520 they're you know in their gym shorts like I said just work on a door prop where I want 822 01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:15,440 to see is all these guys you know okay well now show me this after you've climbed 20 stories 823 01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:20,040 you probably still do it who knows but simulate the work that it would take the stress you 824 01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:25,260 know of doing whatever you did up to that point because doing it fresh not wearing your 825 01:07:25,260 --> 01:07:30,480 gear is not simulating anything now again you know crawl walk stand excuse me call or 826 01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:36,360 run of course if you've never done it before do it in little gear but if we're really simulating 827 01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:41,200 what we're going to do in the real world then fucking simulate it properly yeah I did a 828 01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:46,240 drill the other day in the firehouse I had the kid go on the rower he rode he got his 829 01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:51,680 heart rate way up then we had him get dressed I didn't have worked out in the in the gear 830 01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:55,280 I don't believe in that so much but and then we had him put the gear on and then I had 831 01:07:55,280 --> 01:08:00,240 him follow me around the firehouse as we're walking to the fire building developing that 832 01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:05,160 tempo that flow that cadence right those are the important things that we don't necessarily 833 01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:08,400 learn the fire economy and if you don't have the right people teaching you when you get 834 01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:13,280 to the fire ground when you get to the firehouse you lose it you never truly you don't lose 835 01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:18,040 it you never learn it in the sense and or if you do have it you tend to lose it eventually 836 01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:22,680 but having that temple now the heart rates up we have the temple of working together 837 01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:29,240 I say okay now force the door and he forced the door and he had that tempo within it and 838 01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:33,960 he blew the door and he did fine and then we talked about 10 15 feet inside the door 839 01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:38,200 and that's what we have to get to so like you said I think the door prop is a good thing 840 01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:42,800 to develop the mechanics of the tool but it's not necessarily a good tool for talking about 841 01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:46,980 what we're doing next and that's what we're setting the firefighters up for failure because 842 01:08:46,980 --> 01:08:50,320 like you said they're wearing gym shorts and a helmet and that's it they're not getting 843 01:08:50,320 --> 01:08:53,800 the heart rate up we're not introducing real life stress again the stress is everything 844 01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:57,960 and really hard to duplicate in training but by getting that heart rate up allows you to 845 01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:03,240 work on the ability to breathe lower the heart rate and think clearly what is your whole 846 01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:12,840 ethos when it comes to fitness in the fire service well I mean I'm an avid runner and 847 01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:18,040 CrossFit's big guys are always throwing weights around I'm not really too into like lifting 848 01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:22,360 the weights type thing but I think if you're doing anything physical it's good and I think 849 01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:26,520 that we've lost the sense that how important it is because we've lowered standards across 850 01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:32,600 the board and that's the bottom lowering standards to get on the job it just that's going to 851 01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:36,640 trickle down effect when you get on the job and into the firehouse eventually your standards 852 01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:41,040 become lower and lower and lower so fitness on the job that means tremendously important 853 01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:45,160 but again not so much throwing the weights around but getting the heart rate up where 854 01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:49,200 I can walk up 30 floors and force the door if I had to because I trained to do that and 855 01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:53,400 I think we have to instill this into the young guys coming on the job it's not necessarily 856 01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:57,080 about how much weight you can throw around but it's more so about getting your mind in 857 01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:01,600 key with your body that's the main thing is that fitness isn't only about physical it's 858 01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:07,760 about getting your mind in line with your body that's what I found I did CrossFit for 859 01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:14,720 about 16 years I've kind of tapered off into a different kind of medium now but to me you 860 01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:18,960 know you don't want to be doing a hard workout all the time especially if you just come off 861 01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:23,640 a shift and you're tired you know that should be a kind of deload day for you but if you 862 01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:28,320 go to the pain cave once a week once every 10 days you know when you go to that redline 863 01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:33,080 workout and now you're tested in gear well the last time you were in a really shitty 864 01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:40,960 place was a week 10 days ago but if you become you know a lazy boy surfer and now you have 865 01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:45,920 a life-threatening event and the last time you fucking was scared and tired and your 866 01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:50,840 muscles were burning was in the academy there's a high high chance that you're not going to 867 01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:56,400 make it home to your family yeah and I think another thing that is important is be able 868 01:10:56,400 --> 01:11:01,320 to communicate under stress and that comes from fitness that comes from getting your 869 01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:07,320 heart rate at a working level something I do is when I go for a run mile one I'll give 870 01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:14,840 a mayday it's usually a labored mayday while at mile one mile two I'll give a mayday again 871 01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:20,560 somewhat labored but better mile three give the same mayday and usually around mile three 872 01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:26,460 it's dialed in the tempo is perfect and it sounds crystal clear but that comes from understanding 873 01:11:26,460 --> 01:11:30,000 that getting the heart rate low now I think that we operate on the fire ground around 874 01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:34,480 mile and a half to two miles consistently so that's where we have to be able to control 875 01:11:34,480 --> 01:11:40,160 our heart rate to be able to speak clearly in the time of distress what about breath 876 01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:45,880 work this is one of the biggest kind of aha moments for me was how little we talk about 877 01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:50,520 the breath in one of the only professions on planet earth where you have a finite amount 878 01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:55,280 of air strapped to your back so when you think about you know whether it's yoga meditation 879 01:11:55,280 --> 01:12:00,960 you know whatever it is skip breathing but that needs to be in my in my career is at 880 01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,360 the forefront of what I did for exactly what you said even in the CrossFit world I love 881 01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:08,120 the emoms every minute on the minute which should be about 30 minutes excuse me 30 seconds 882 01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:14,120 work but then 30 seconds of rest and it might be 10 15 20 minutes of that but every 30 seconds 883 01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:19,440 you're working to down regulate again to get ready for the next round so what is your perspective 884 01:12:19,440 --> 01:12:24,680 of the importance of as you said breath and heart rate so again this is something I feel 885 01:12:24,680 --> 01:12:30,000 that we're failing young firefighters from day one we teach in the academy how to force 886 01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:36,040 door stretch hose post yearlings fire dynamics fire science we're teaching all this but we're 887 01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:40,280 not teaching us how to breathe like firemen and that's what it blows my mind it truly 888 01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:45,880 does so a lot of times during my lecture I'll take the most senior salty guy in the room 889 01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:51,000 right and then I'll point the young kid the CrossFit kid and I'd say I guarantee you this 890 01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:56,040 salty firefighter will outlast your cylinder I don't care if you can run 40 miles you've 891 01:12:56,040 --> 01:13:01,780 done three ultras in your life because he taught himself how to breathe like a firefighter 892 01:13:01,780 --> 01:13:07,920 it took years to get there but he understands it if we could teach these young firefighters 893 01:13:07,920 --> 01:13:14,400 from day one how to breathe like firefighters I think will save so many lives moving forward 894 01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:19,040 we'll be able to think clearly on the fire ground by getting the heart rate low and thinking 895 01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:25,320 skip breathing like you mentioned skip breathing that's that's probably my go-to under stress 896 01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:29,200 I like box breathing going about your day going about stretching a line forcing the 897 01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:33,640 door if you work on on box breathing allows you to lower the heart rate just a bit but 898 01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:38,280 under distress giving that skip breathing which is simply breathing in holding breathing 899 01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:44,280 in again slowly exhaling two or three cycles of that can truly allow you to lower your 900 01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:49,080 heart rate think clearly and get out of the building alive under stress so one more area 901 01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:54,760 when it comes to the academy in the way that we're teaching again I realized looking back 902 01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:59,720 and let's use the EMS side for a second as a paramedic I was taught okay you know you've 903 01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:04,320 got this heart arrhythmia I'm going to give this drug I'm going to give you know this 904 01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:09,200 kind of electric therapy and then we go through and at the end okay we've got normal sinus 905 01:14:09,200 --> 01:14:14,560 well great and again as a teaching tool obviously you've got to teach sequences what I realized 906 01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:21,240 though is that we do a terrible job for setting our men and women up for the failures that 907 01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:23,840 we're going to say and when I say failures I'm not talking about failures as far as what 908 01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:28,600 we did but the fact that especially on the medical side a lot of people don't make it 909 01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:33,800 and so I feel like this expectation of you know you got the baby out the fire or you 910 01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:39,680 got the cardiac arrest back that sometimes we do a disservice with that kind of 100% 911 01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:44,440 success rate rather than taking time to have a discussion to be like just so you know if 912 01:14:44,440 --> 01:14:47,640 the conditions are like this you know you're going to do the search but there's a high 913 01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:51,520 chance that you're actually going to be doing a body recovery or if you're doing you know 914 01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:57,920 cardiac algorithms just know that only 5% of people are going to make it from this so 915 01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:05,000 that way they kind of have a preface of they're not feeling guilt and shame because well in 916 01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:08,120 the academy I saved them every time and now I'm losing them. 917 01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:14,560 Yeah that's a good point and you know that's something we're not doing a good job on in 918 01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:20,920 training I feel and that's something you brought to light for me is the thing about that with 919 01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:28,000 making the search finding a victim and then bringing that victim out or sustaining them 920 01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:32,880 in place until we get water on the fire whatever your tactic is in the moment but that's something 921 01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:37,160 that we're not talking about is what happens the calculation or what happens the percentage 922 01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:45,280 of survival rate but that yeah again I think we're failing in our training from early from 923 01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:49,760 day one to being honest and truthful with people as far as what you signed up for and 924 01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:53,960 that trickles all the way back to what you were talking about earlier as far as the mental 925 01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:58,680 health side of this is sometimes we have to remind people what we signed up for and I 926 01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:03,000 think that's kind of lost as well could be glorified as a good schedule benefits pension 927 01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:07,480 all these things but truly what you signed up for is to come to help people in the worst 928 01:16:07,480 --> 01:16:12,880 time of need but what's that percentage of people that aren't going to survive that moment. 929 01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:17,600 Speaking of schedule this is a point that I harp on a huge amount and it's good to have 930 01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:21,160 someone from FDNY to talk about this too. 931 01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:27,240 How many hours do you a week do you guys work as far as the basal level of hours? 932 01:16:27,240 --> 01:16:30,960 I guess it's 48 hours so we do 224 tours a week. 933 01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:37,320 Okay so I understood it was 42 or 40 is that with extra bits then or is that your flat 934 01:16:37,320 --> 01:16:38,320 rate? 935 01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:43,080 That's flat rate so we'll do a 24 two or three years off another 24 and then with that you're 936 01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:45,440 always working overtime in between all that. 937 01:16:45,440 --> 01:16:50,320 Okay because the reason that you know I'm asking this as again through this bizarre 938 01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:55,440 gypsy experience and then 900 conversations I started realizing how much sleep deprivation 939 01:16:55,440 --> 01:17:00,040 was contributing to all the things whether it was weight gain and heart disease whether 940 01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:05,320 it was cancer suicide but then also you know our ability to think clearly to breathe properly 941 01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:13,120 to do you know to be effective on the fire ground itself so my goal is to create the 942 01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:18,320 24 72 as the industry standard across the board which should be a 42 hour work week 943 01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:22,480 which would give our men and women you know three not even three days off because that's 944 01:17:22,480 --> 01:17:26,600 the wrong way of putting it you know that second day you've already worked eight but 945 01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:31,120 give a full 72 hour period between shift and shift. 946 01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:36,080 So what is your perspective of the impact of work weeks and or sleep deprivation through 947 01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:38,880 your experience? 948 01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:44,240 So I think sleep deprivation this is something that it's a hot topic I guess you would say 949 01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:48,080 everyone's talking about it but there's a lot of truth behind it and the older I've 950 01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:52,760 gotten I've realized it is affecting me at home it's affecting me at work I just can't 951 01:17:52,760 --> 01:17:57,520 seem to recover after a busy night. 952 01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:02,040 Then this goal goes back to what we were talking about earlier about the engine company getting 953 01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:07,280 beat up doing 6,000 plus runs working 24s and then you get the argument coming back 954 01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:12,840 well they did it in the war years they did those those runs and those and those and those 955 01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:16,320 fires and everything else but they were going to fires they weren't doing all the nuisance 956 01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:19,800 runs they weren't wearing bunker gear and they weren't working 24 hour shifts they're 957 01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:25,440 working a nine hour day going home working a nine hour day going home coming back a day 958 01:18:25,440 --> 01:18:29,880 and a half later working 15 hours going home coming back the next night working 15 hours 959 01:18:29,880 --> 01:18:33,360 then having three days off. 960 01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:38,240 That works but that doesn't work with life today. 961 01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:41,940 So that's where we've kind of got lost runs are still going up we're wearing the bunker 962 01:18:41,940 --> 01:18:48,600 gear and we're not sleeping and I could feel it and like I said it's affecting everything 963 01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:52,400 across the board from home life to work life and I don't know how you get around it I really 964 01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:57,760 don't you know when I when I got to the spot I'm in now the captain who was retiring gave 965 01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:00,520 me a piece of advice he goes I know you want to hang out with the guys in the kitchen he 966 01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:04,960 goes go to bed early because you never know where you can sleep next and I haven't really 967 01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:08,200 listened to his advice but it's starting to catch up with me now where there's so much 968 01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:10,840 truth behind that. 969 01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:14,720 Well my old argument I mean firstly from a budgetary point of view and it's interesting 970 01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:19,760 here in Florida we the dominoes are falling now and we've got with one one department 971 01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:25,560 has done it for a long time another department went to 2472 just 18 months ago city of Gainesville 972 01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:30,600 UF they are going to it this September and then Pasco County which is near Tampa is going 973 01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:37,760 to it basically in like a year year and a half from now and the reason that those counties 974 01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:41,480 and cities are shifting is not because of the goodness of their heart they value their 975 01:19:41,480 --> 01:19:47,240 firefighters some in that board I'm sure do but it's the the money side so what is happening 976 01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:51,820 as we are breaking down our firefighters there is a financial consequence you know workmen's 977 01:19:51,820 --> 01:19:56,720 comp overtime fill in the fill in the gaps lawsuits from mistakes we make you know I 978 01:19:56,720 --> 01:20:00,760 mean you know hiring more people and then god forbid you have a hiring crisis now people 979 01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:04,880 are walking out the back door and it's like 20 grand per firefighter that you're training 980 01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:10,240 so you've got all this money just bleeding out the back the answer because things have 981 01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:14,100 shifted because we're not sitting around smoking cigars and you know petting the dalmatian 982 01:20:14,100 --> 01:20:19,480 anymore is to give these men and women more recovery rest and recovery in between because 983 01:20:19,480 --> 01:20:25,880 to me it's insanity that the people that we call 911 for that get up from a you know dead 984 01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:30,920 sleep or whatever it is literally jump on a rig drive to our home and then make entry 985 01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:36,960 looking for our five-year-old is sleep deprived you know overworked under slept and yet the 986 01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:41,560 person that bags our groceries in the grocery store goes to bed you know every single night 987 01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:46,620 so if we're going to ask our men and women to do what they have to do in 2024 we have 988 01:20:46,620 --> 01:20:51,880 to create an environment that allows them to thrive rather than as we all know die within 989 01:20:51,880 --> 01:20:58,360 five years of retirement yeah that's powerful and you know there's an old slogan that floats 990 01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:04,040 around the fdmi is that the best tool in the fire ground is a well-rested firefighter and 991 01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:08,560 it's something we always laughed at but there's so much truth behind it when you really analyze 992 01:21:08,560 --> 01:21:12,920 it and think about it that is the best tool is if you're well rested you can think clearly 993 01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:19,760 right you can make the right decisions and you can perform absolutely well another area 994 01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:25,680 of expertise that i know you teach on is search and again in the spectrum of departments i 995 01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:29,960 will give full credit to the city of hialia for i would argue the best search training 996 01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:34,280 i've had in my career and the best you know again hose line advancement and management 997 01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:41,680 and all those things too they were phenomenal what are some of the common not even mistakes 998 01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:45,560 what are areas that you find that you're able to add value for departments when it comes 999 01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:52,240 to search you know outside of the fdmi is what i think going back to what you were asking 1000 01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:58,360 about the disconnection between the fire academy and real life and i think that what we're 1001 01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:06,800 teaching nationwide is that the first thing we're searching for is that fire but we're 1002 01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:10,960 not really talking about it it's common sense we got to find the fire but that's number 1003 01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:18,160 one search on the fire floor we have to locate that fire first now we're never dismissing 1004 01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:22,420 any life in that travel looking for that seat of the fire but water on the fire saves more 1005 01:22:22,420 --> 01:22:27,880 lives than anything else this is common sense so we have to understand the game position 1006 01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:34,160 on the fire find the fire now direct that engine company into position then we start 1007 01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:39,280 our search from the seat of the fire away towards the way we entered again mind mapping 1008 01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:43,120 the details mind triggers as we're looking for the fire all the things that are very 1009 01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:48,520 important again never dismissing that search for life but fire is priority now going to 1010 01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:54,240 the floor above that search starts at the threshold once we pass that threshold of going 1011 01:22:54,240 --> 01:23:01,840 above we're searching for life then fire travel however we have to focus our search above 1012 01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:06,720 the fire below yes we're searching our way to that area but we want to focus our search 1013 01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:14,600 on the fire area that is above the seat of the fire below now I said life first on the 1014 01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:18,960 floor above yes but we have to look for fire travel and this is where I can see we're going 1015 01:23:18,960 --> 01:23:25,200 to multiple alarms nationwide too often and too quickly because we're not opening up quick 1016 01:23:25,200 --> 01:23:29,760 enough and often enough we have to open up and look for that fire travel so many times 1017 01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:34,160 you see one room fire on the first floor then you have fire on the cockloft because we didn't 1018 01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:38,200 open up the pipe chases early enough it's just basic as that but again just to kind 1019 01:23:38,200 --> 01:23:45,040 of recap that fire floor we have to locate the fire first direct the engine into position 1020 01:23:45,040 --> 01:23:49,640 floor above the fire our search starts at that threshold and I think that's kind of 1021 01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:55,520 where we've lost track of teaching and what the right thing is to do on the fireground 1022 01:23:55,520 --> 01:24:00,720 it seems again going back to the academy where I've seen it taught poorly is you know you've 1023 01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:06,040 got you two guys searching men and women searching and you're doing a right-hand search for example 1024 01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:10,240 and that you're not going to have because this is a concrete training tower you're not 1025 01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:14,600 going to have a freaking you know inferno to navigate so like oh do a right-hand search 1026 01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:19,240 and you go all around the building and you come back well what if you know there's a 1027 01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:23,640 massive fire in a way and you don't have a hose line because you're searching how do 1028 01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:27,680 you navigate from one corner to the other you know so that again there's this disconnect 1029 01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:32,080 you send someone in and they had to stop searching because they did reach you know a room of 1030 01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:36,040 fire or not stop but have to understand how to navigate around like you said to continue 1031 01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:41,000 that perimeter and I don't think that's taught very well either no that's what we have as 1032 01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:46,720 as the can firefighter right two and a half gallon water can it's not for extinguishment 1033 01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:51,080 it's for confinement and that's what we have to really zone in on that where you know these 1034 01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:54,440 firemen think that they carry the can they're going to put the fire out before the engine 1035 01:24:54,440 --> 01:24:59,880 can get there like it's some kind of competition in reality you're just holding back that fire 1036 01:24:59,880 --> 01:25:03,920 to exactly what you said how we want to pass that fire and search the rooms beyond the 1037 01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:11,720 fire traveling around like you said what I've noticed is that people are searching behind 1038 01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:16,720 the advancing line we have to be searching ahead of that line ahead above and beyond 1039 01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:21,840 is where we are saving lives once we put the fire out either then at this point searching 1040 01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:26,960 for dead people we have to get there ahead of that line locate that fire and search your 1041 01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:31,760 way back as that engines going into position but that can man holding that fire back is 1042 01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:36,200 incredibly important and we give the young firefighter or the probe we the can that's 1043 01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:39,920 kind of how it works I don't think we're doing justice of explaining the importance of that 1044 01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:43,920 position and truly what's going on that's something that has to be discussed at roll 1045 01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:48,240 call and on the fire floor right before you make entry into that apartment or on the front 1046 01:25:48,240 --> 01:25:52,480 steps if you're in a private dwelling what that role is to a young firefighter you explain 1047 01:25:52,480 --> 01:25:57,520 to him brother if we find fire I want you to hold it back I'm gonna pass you and search 1048 01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:02,280 those rooms beyond you have to have that conversation you also have to tell that young firefighter 1049 01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:07,360 that if you were running low on water in that can and your can is starting to be overtaken 1050 01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:11,000 by the fire you have to let us know because now we have to start making moves to get out 1051 01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:14,840 alive from the second means of egress or whether taking a door off the hinges and holding 1052 01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:19,120 that fire back to get back to that point of egress but it's very important to communicate 1053 01:26:19,120 --> 01:26:24,080 and be on the same page I remember working for Hialeah and I was on the rescue again 1054 01:26:24,080 --> 01:26:30,000 it's a three-person ambulance and we got toned out to a house fire we were first on scene 1055 01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:35,640 and they would put detergent in their can as well we went in and again it wasn't to 1056 01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:39,800 beat the engine but we went into search and ended up it was a fully involved kitchen and 1057 01:26:39,800 --> 01:26:43,400 ended up putting the whole thing out with the can and it was only then that I realized 1058 01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:48,520 how like you said you're not trying to extinguish the whole fire but how much a can can actually 1059 01:26:48,520 --> 01:26:54,720 do if you use it properly yeah it's a whole movement out there I guess you say about can 1060 01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:59,480 confidence that's a great class if you do see that be sure to get involved with that 1061 01:26:59,480 --> 01:27:03,120 class and talk about it and get the hands-on training because it's one of those things 1062 01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:07,000 that you only gain through experience like you said you have to start going to a couple 1063 01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:10,560 of these fires and applying the water from the water can and seeing how much fire you 1064 01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:15,760 can actually hold back or extinguish but that's something that only comes through experience 1065 01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:20,280 in training yes you can recreate it but again having that stress factor of moving on and 1066 01:27:20,280 --> 01:27:24,880 above and beyond you kind of eliminate that during the training unfortunately but it's 1067 01:27:24,880 --> 01:27:32,520 something that needs to be spoken about before you're in that position speaking of can confidence 1068 01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:37,640 eric weaton was on the show with jim walsh a while ago now and he was at the orlando 1069 01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:42,480 fire conference a few years ago and I took his v es class and by that point I think I've 1070 01:27:42,480 --> 01:27:48,720 been on for 13 years and never had a v es class before and was blown away how much sense 1071 01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:52,960 it made like you said you close the door now you have this one room you you've searched 1072 01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:56,480 from the outside you know where your egress is you know you have people waiting if you 1073 01:27:56,480 --> 01:28:04,160 find someone I love that idea so again through your perspective how how much is that being 1074 01:28:04,160 --> 01:28:10,040 taught and used outside of fdny because I mean it like I said it took me 13 years to 1075 01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:18,160 come across it myself so v es you know the fire industry I should say they love acronyms 1076 01:28:18,160 --> 01:28:22,880 they can test you on them they can rewrite books they can remake acronyms to resell books 1077 01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:32,240 right so v e i s vent enter isolate search so this blows my mind because we're setting 1078 01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:37,920 up again the young firefighters coming out to believe that vent enter isolate search 1079 01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:45,600 is a type of search search is search that acronym is simply just a path of getting position 1080 01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:51,320 on the fire and that's what we're not teaching what's the number one thing we do and that's 1081 01:28:51,320 --> 01:28:56,640 save lives so why in the world will we take an acronym and put the word search last to 1082 01:28:56,640 --> 01:29:01,560 that acronym I know when I get there to fire when I had the ov or I was the outside vent 1083 01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:08,000 and that break hits boots on the ground my search starts then I'm sizing up the building 1084 01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:12,400 anyone on the fire escapes anyone jump into the bushes anybody in the garbage cans that 1085 01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:16,760 maybe fell out the window make the turn now I go down the alley down the exposure anyone 1086 01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:20,880 in the fire escapes area anyone showing out a window I'm searching my way to my point 1087 01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:30,240 of entry now we make entry vent enter isolate so I vented I entered now it tells me to go 1088 01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:35,400 isolate so if conditions allow me to continue my search why would I ever abandon my search 1089 01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:39,680 to close the door search your way to the door because the main thing we're doing is searching 1090 01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:44,120 and search starts on boots on the ground now you get to the hallway they say take your 1091 01:29:44,120 --> 01:29:50,080 tool sweep that hallway maybe you get someone maybe you don't then you isolate then you 1092 01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:56,260 continue your search back to the window you came in the acronym states that pretty bluntly 1093 01:29:56,260 --> 01:30:00,920 in real life you search with your hands that's it so when you get to that hallway you commit 1094 01:30:00,920 --> 01:30:06,680 to that hallway at least the body's length left or right now let's say you find a victim 1095 01:30:06,680 --> 01:30:12,760 you drag that victim back into that area now we isolate that room and you realize that 1096 01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:19,160 you have the head of just say a 30 year old woman for example it's 3 a.m. and when you 1097 01:30:19,160 --> 01:30:22,680 were doing your search you mind mapped at the details of that room that you were in 1098 01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:26,680 an adult's room there was no crib wasn't a twin bed was in a small dresser you could 1099 01:30:26,680 --> 01:30:33,880 tell you were in a master room or an adult's bedroom 3 a.m. you have her head in your lap 1100 01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:38,720 where's she coming from probably coming from the kids room commit to that hallway thoroughly 1101 01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:42,840 search the hallway for any kids that might have been in her arms that fell to the ground 1102 01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:48,800 you find one kid there's probably another flip the script same scenario you commit to 1103 01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:54,560 that hallway you pull her back in you isolate the room now you realize you have the feet 1104 01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:59,360 of a 30 year old woman same scenario where's she going probably going to the kids room 1105 01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:04,880 make the push down the hallway and commit to that room and search for the kids so when 1106 01:31:04,880 --> 01:31:10,980 we put the acronym event enter isolate search and we explain that this is a form of search 1107 01:31:10,980 --> 01:31:17,200 we're losing common sense on the fire floor common sense is middle of the night you find 1108 01:31:17,200 --> 01:31:20,880 someone where they doing where they going there's a reason they're out of bed and there's 1109 01:31:20,880 --> 01:31:27,720 a reason why they're going somewhere reanalyze the situation in the moment what about tick 1110 01:31:27,720 --> 01:31:33,200 I again for most of my career it was it was searching and you know and then the officers 1111 01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:37,820 had a tick and so it was slowly kind of introduced and there was a time I remember in Anaheim 1112 01:31:37,820 --> 01:31:41,560 where it was the winter so we'd make entry on the training burn all of a sudden the tick 1113 01:31:41,560 --> 01:31:48,640 was spaz out because it went from you know whatever it was 30 degrees to 400 and so for 1114 01:31:48,640 --> 01:31:55,860 me I ended up preferring the option where someone is at the door holding a tick someone 1115 01:31:55,860 --> 01:31:59,520 else is actually doing a full search because I for me it was like that kind of night blindness 1116 01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:03,720 through night vision goggles if I was staring at a screen it was hard for me to then map 1117 01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:08,840 out the picture in my mind so what is the kind of dynamic that you like as far as tick 1118 01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:15,520 usage so the FDY the officers carry the tick firefighters don't so I don't have a lot of 1119 01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:20,920 experience with it I'm gaining experience I got promoted later my career obviously so 1120 01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:28,240 but for the past few years or past couple years that I've been carrying one I've learned 1121 01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:33,560 quite a bit to really adapt to it and use it not only for finding the seed of the fire 1122 01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:38,440 I mean a great move to do which gets overlooked through training I think a lot of times is 1123 01:32:38,440 --> 01:32:42,580 when you have that tick and we're searching for the fire now I truly believe when you 1124 01:32:42,580 --> 01:32:47,560 force that door we treat the fire apartment like a fine bottle of wine you pause you get 1125 01:32:47,560 --> 01:32:53,080 low you let the apartment lift you check out layout for victims see the fire where you're 1126 01:32:53,080 --> 01:32:57,980 going left to right but now with the tick it's a game changer so if you don't carry that 1127 01:32:57,980 --> 01:33:02,160 tick that's the moves you have to do you still have to rely on getting low and looking what 1128 01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:07,400 you still do with the kick the tick but now taking a few steps inside that door and turning 1129 01:33:07,400 --> 01:33:13,280 taking that tick and holding it up to the door where now the smoke is venting you can 1130 01:33:13,280 --> 01:33:18,440 really see velocity of smoke and that can give you a directional point to what way the 1131 01:33:18,440 --> 01:33:24,260 seed of the fire is by seeing what way more velocity is coming with that smoke inventing 1132 01:33:24,260 --> 01:33:30,080 out that main door that's your point of going to find that seed of the fire we had a fire 1133 01:33:30,080 --> 01:33:35,760 the other night it was funny you said like leaving a guy at the door I had my tick we're 1134 01:33:35,760 --> 01:33:41,840 doing our search I have my irons guy he searched in the bedroom I come in behind him and he's 1135 01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:45,360 like I'm trying to get to the bed but there's all this clutter here and I already searched 1136 01:33:45,360 --> 01:33:49,200 the bed with the with the tick I can see the entire room that no one's in that bed and 1137 01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:53,080 I said to him it's negative there's no one in here there's no one in here he goes I'm 1138 01:33:53,080 --> 01:33:57,520 trying to get there now we're having a discussion in the moment like searching this bed I just 1139 01:33:57,520 --> 01:34:01,400 grabbed him I go look and I put the tick up to his mask and he looked he goes oh look 1140 01:34:01,400 --> 01:34:05,500 at that I go yeah it's a lot easier right so it's almost like we're cheating but it's 1141 01:34:05,500 --> 01:34:10,080 a great tool to have and it just comes with practice and reputation just understanding 1142 01:34:10,080 --> 01:34:15,760 how to use the tool I'm fortunate enough to have a dear friend and mentor that kind of 1143 01:34:15,760 --> 01:34:20,320 like wrote the book for us on it so I'm constantly picking his brain and he's kind of guiding 1144 01:34:20,320 --> 01:34:23,880 me and teaching me how to use it the right way it's one of those things you can get a 1145 01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:29,520 great digital camera and never take a great photo but once you learn how to use that camera 1146 01:34:29,520 --> 01:34:33,440 you can understand like the true art of it and there really is an art behind it but it 1147 01:34:33,440 --> 01:34:37,320 gets overlooked through training I think a lot of times yeah what I've seen is pretty 1148 01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:41,080 much the way that we searched before you're just given the tick to hold now and I don't 1149 01:34:41,080 --> 01:34:46,120 think that's you know the right way of teaching it you hit on an interesting point and it's 1150 01:34:46,120 --> 01:34:52,440 I remember again I was never a great firefighter I had 14 years on the last five was in a department 1151 01:34:52,440 --> 01:34:56,280 that basically almost never got fire it was very lucky in the nine before they'd get a 1152 01:34:56,280 --> 01:35:00,680 decent amount but I mean nine compared to 30 is a very small career when it comes to 1153 01:35:00,680 --> 01:35:06,120 fire specifically but there's a term that the military use a tactical pause where you 1154 01:35:06,120 --> 01:35:10,360 just stop for a moment and you just kind of talked about that looking for the direction 1155 01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:18,500 of the the heat and outside of that there's this kind of you know clean cabs stops grabs 1156 01:35:18,500 --> 01:35:22,560 mentality where kids supposedly are going to fly off the fire engine right through the 1157 01:35:22,560 --> 01:35:28,480 door and then go save someone and I think that this this ability to just stop and I 1158 01:35:28,480 --> 01:35:32,520 always found this on the nozzle again I was not a great firefighter never on long enough 1159 01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:36,720 to even discover if I was going to be a good one but I remember people freaking out going 1160 01:35:36,720 --> 01:35:41,160 just you know flow water flow water I'm like just fucking calm down I can see the fire 1161 01:35:41,160 --> 01:35:46,160 I knock it down and then I shut the bail down for a moment and just see what it does because 1162 01:35:46,160 --> 01:35:52,480 am I advancing to another area another room but just mindlessly spraying to me was counterproductive 1163 01:35:52,480 --> 01:35:58,000 so talk to me about the tactical pause the importance of a firefighter again going back 1164 01:35:58,000 --> 01:36:05,120 to the breath we're in the fire you know we have a have a job to do but trying to give 1165 01:36:05,120 --> 01:36:10,400 yourself a few moments that then will in turn save a lot of time once you assess the situation 1166 01:36:10,400 --> 01:36:13,040 properly. 1167 01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:16,860 Everything you just said there's so much behind and that's kind of where I feel true true 1168 01:36:16,860 --> 01:36:22,160 professionalism in the fire service comes from is understanding that there's a tempo 1169 01:36:22,160 --> 01:36:26,840 and a flow to everything you do and that tactical pause can align that flow state in every fire 1170 01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:32,920 because every fire has a different tempo but unless we take a moment to pause take a breath 1171 01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:37,680 and kind of find the tempo of that fire we'll never truly be doing the right thing or being 1172 01:36:37,680 --> 01:36:43,280 being in the same flow state formula we need to be to accomplish our tasks there's micro 1173 01:36:43,280 --> 01:36:47,240 pauses right everything we do from you get off the rig you take a pause you size up how 1174 01:36:47,240 --> 01:36:51,800 am I getting to the roof you get to the door quick micro pause tactical breath how am I 1175 01:36:51,800 --> 01:36:56,460 sizing this door up everything we do we should be pausing it's not just the first pause when 1176 01:36:56,460 --> 01:37:00,600 you pull up and size up it's every task we do you take a breath or every time you think 1177 01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:06,240 you need to take a breath you need to take one you know everyone knows the OODA loop 1178 01:37:06,240 --> 01:37:10,920 observe orientate decide then act that I added two of the more for the fire ground though 1179 01:37:10,920 --> 01:37:15,280 I think pause and breathe are very important to align that to make the right decision so 1180 01:37:15,280 --> 01:37:20,220 everything we do and I teach with all my guys is the first thing we do is pause and take 1181 01:37:20,220 --> 01:37:24,720 a breath and that pause could be a split second and that breath could take three seconds however 1182 01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:28,820 it's important we do it at every task we do for one to lower your heart rate and think 1183 01:37:28,820 --> 01:37:34,480 clearly but number two this job is all about instinctual notions especially in the truck 1184 01:37:34,480 --> 01:37:40,440 company and we have to be able to trust our gut our gut is right probably 99% of the time 1185 01:37:40,440 --> 01:37:45,720 but that 1% of the time it's not and by pausing you can realign that decision with making 1186 01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:51,720 the right one I want to get on to the lithium-ion battery conversation and then do some closing 1187 01:37:51,720 --> 01:37:57,900 questions but just before we do you just mentioned that you're not a fan of working out in gear 1188 01:37:57,900 --> 01:38:03,440 I'm not a fan of working out in gear of course we have to do physical things in gear sometimes 1189 01:38:03,440 --> 01:38:08,960 otherwise we're not going to create that resilience in the very uniform that we have to wear but 1190 01:38:08,960 --> 01:38:13,240 you know carcinogens now PFAS and these other things that we're learning about common sense 1191 01:38:13,240 --> 01:38:19,120 dictates that if you can exercise or train without gear a majority of the time that's 1192 01:38:19,120 --> 01:38:25,320 going to be safer so what is your perspective not only on training and gear but on the and 1193 01:38:25,320 --> 01:38:30,000 the clean cab makes it sound like it's some you know surgical environment ready for brain 1194 01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:38,280 surgery I'm talking more about minimizing the potential carcinogens in our day-to-day 1195 01:38:38,280 --> 01:38:46,520 space so something I've noticed recently is that every fire we go to whether it be one 1196 01:38:46,520 --> 01:38:52,400 room to a multiple alarm the guys are setting their gear out to get cleaned religiously 1197 01:38:52,400 --> 01:38:56,120 I'll come into work I'm working tomorrow I'll come in they had a fire today I guarantee 1198 01:38:56,120 --> 01:39:01,640 you there's a line of bags of gear getting sent out that was never ever ever the culture 1199 01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:05,800 in the FDY we've been sending out twice a year and guys would hide the gear and send 1200 01:39:05,800 --> 01:39:10,080 out the same gear for years upon years upon years because we like the way it fit it was 1201 01:39:10,080 --> 01:39:17,560 broken in I like to see the way we're going I wish it was more of a more of a culture 1202 01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:21,280 when I was younger same thing as wearing the mask you know we're so quickly to take that 1203 01:39:21,280 --> 01:39:29,120 mask off at a fire we got to leave it on it's a cultural thing as far as working out I just 1204 01:39:29,120 --> 01:39:33,360 I think it's very unprofessional that's just I there's no scientific analogy on that for 1205 01:39:33,360 --> 01:39:38,520 me I just think it's kind of just it's kind of goofy I don't know we're firemen we're 1206 01:39:38,520 --> 01:39:44,360 professionals we should be up to shape you don't see like professional basketball player 1207 01:39:44,360 --> 01:39:47,720 or football players you don't see them out there in their uniform running around working 1208 01:39:47,720 --> 01:39:51,360 out on their days off I just don't understand it it's about game time decision making it's 1209 01:39:51,360 --> 01:39:55,600 about being professional when it's time to do your job and that all leads up to just 1210 01:39:55,600 --> 01:40:01,520 being in shape always always working for the next best thing you should always be training 1211 01:40:01,520 --> 01:40:05,400 for that race that's never coming but not necessarily wearing the race gear if that 1212 01:40:05,400 --> 01:40:10,680 makes sense I mean there's that's just a pet peeve of mine but the culture of the clean 1213 01:40:10,680 --> 01:40:15,500 cab I mean I don't have too much experience with the clean cab I hear about it I've read 1214 01:40:15,500 --> 01:40:20,600 a little bit about it that doesn't affect or I and that doesn't affect my world at all 1215 01:40:20,600 --> 01:40:27,040 is there value in it yeah I'm sure for the future of of your health but we have to understand 1216 01:40:27,040 --> 01:40:31,960 again what we signed up for this is what we signed up for it's a dirty job there's no 1217 01:40:31,960 --> 01:40:38,120 way around it I don't understand the clean cab in general I mean is what it's like you 1218 01:40:38,120 --> 01:40:43,080 put the gear in a different box or something you get in the up to the fire and then you 1219 01:40:43,080 --> 01:40:47,920 get dressed is that what the clean cab initiative is or no I think because you have again a 1220 01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:52,120 spectrum of interpretations I had the two Swedish guys that had the actually are the 1221 01:40:52,120 --> 01:40:58,880 founders of the actual clean cab but if you're taking principles you start with clean gear 1222 01:40:58,880 --> 01:41:02,800 so your your men and women that are bagged their gear they're getting on the rig with 1223 01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:07,080 clean gear so that goes on the rig just like normal what was a real aha moment for me is 1224 01:41:07,080 --> 01:41:11,720 as a tillerman in California you can't have your pack in the doghouse so your pack has 1225 01:41:11,720 --> 01:41:16,680 to be in a compartment down I realized just like you said tactical pause getting off the 1226 01:41:16,680 --> 01:41:21,400 rig assessing you know the building and I wasn't an officer so I'm waiting to be told 1227 01:41:21,400 --> 01:41:24,280 you know what to do I mean obviously we're gonna grab the tools that I would always grab 1228 01:41:24,280 --> 01:41:29,960 but what is my captain gonna tell me to do but six seconds that pack is snapped in and 1229 01:41:29,960 --> 01:41:34,520 I'm ready to go I mean literally it's ridiculous how quick it is to throw a pack on your back 1230 01:41:34,520 --> 01:41:40,760 so removing the carcinogen filled pack after a fire and having that external I think is 1231 01:41:40,760 --> 01:41:45,920 actually a very good idea so it's just a case of whatever would be off gassing in the cab 1232 01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:50,760 let's not put that in the cab so that's that's the simple concept and then you know they 1233 01:41:50,760 --> 01:41:55,280 bag it up god forbid you get you know a still alarm on the way back to the station then 1234 01:41:55,280 --> 01:41:59,040 you might have to open that bag and throw your shit back on but you know what's gonna 1235 01:41:59,040 --> 01:42:02,160 happen is you're gonna have two sets of gear you switch them out you someone off as you 1236 01:42:02,160 --> 01:42:07,560 said and I don't care what anyone you know most of the country says the chances of most 1237 01:42:07,560 --> 01:42:13,780 departments getting two three four fires back to back in 2024 are pretty slim so it's really 1238 01:42:13,780 --> 01:42:17,680 about like you said that long term what are you or is your health gonna be look like what 1239 01:42:17,680 --> 01:42:21,320 are you gonna be bringing on your clothes back to your wife and your kids you know through 1240 01:42:21,320 --> 01:42:27,120 that contamination so that gross contamination of not putting gear on that you just had in 1241 01:42:27,120 --> 01:42:32,240 a fire back into the cab and then not bringing the packs on that would that would make a 1242 01:42:32,240 --> 01:42:38,600 huge dent in my opinion no I think there's a lot of truth to that and anyone who's fighting 1243 01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:44,440 that I mean it's just being stubborn and it's not moving forward with the fire service and 1244 01:42:44,440 --> 01:42:50,520 not using what we've learned to save our lives moving forward that's pretty much the movement 1245 01:42:50,520 --> 01:42:54,880 in New York City I mean guys like I said guys are sending the gear out constantly we're 1246 01:42:54,880 --> 01:42:58,200 not wearing gear in the kitchen anymore we're not wearing gears in the bunk room anymore 1247 01:42:58,200 --> 01:43:01,400 that was always a thing early on when I came on the job people walked around the bunker 1248 01:43:01,400 --> 01:43:05,060 gear in the kitchen we ate dinner in the kitchen sometimes with the bunker gear on that's like 1249 01:43:05,060 --> 01:43:09,080 absolutely off the table now you came a walk in the kitchen you know so we're making the 1250 01:43:09,080 --> 01:43:14,920 right steps even though people may not think we are see that's just funny how you hear 1251 01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:18,840 about the clean cab and I thought it's something totally different I never did any real research 1252 01:43:18,840 --> 01:43:22,240 on it but we're already moving in that direction be doing the right thing and I think it's 1253 01:43:22,240 --> 01:43:25,680 a good thing really we have to start talking about what's inside the gear though right 1254 01:43:25,680 --> 01:43:29,680 isn't that what they're saying now it's causing the cancer and that's probably why we shouldn't 1255 01:43:29,680 --> 01:43:34,320 be working out in our gear yeah no the PFAS is part of the conversation but it's interesting 1256 01:43:34,320 --> 01:43:38,800 because for example the IAFF grabbed onto that because then they just get to point at 1257 01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:44,020 another company let's also talk about the work week which is really killing a lot of 1258 01:43:44,020 --> 01:43:48,800 our men and women because it's literally destroying us from the inside PFAS I don't want that 1259 01:43:48,800 --> 01:43:53,440 shit in my gear I'm not saying that we should have it but if we have we're truly going to 1260 01:43:53,440 --> 01:43:57,480 have the wellness conversation the work week needs to be front and center and then we can 1261 01:43:57,480 --> 01:44:03,040 start chipping away at the other stuff yeah work week and managing the nuisance runs when 1262 01:44:03,040 --> 01:44:07,340 I say nuisance just not the call takers not doing their job more or less so what it comes 1263 01:44:07,340 --> 01:44:11,760 down to we have to start with the call taker and then deciding what runs or what calls 1264 01:44:11,760 --> 01:44:14,840 we're sending companies on because you're sending them on everything is they don't want 1265 01:44:14,840 --> 01:44:19,160 to do their job so that's where it starts and that's where the the sleep comes next 1266 01:44:19,160 --> 01:44:23,000 after that you know so it all starts from that initial call taker I feel like and that's 1267 01:44:23,000 --> 01:44:28,960 where we could probably hone in and maybe try to change it moving forward yeah absolutely 1268 01:44:28,960 --> 01:44:33,000 all right well then one quick area before you go to closing questions another thing 1269 01:44:33,000 --> 01:44:38,200 that I really I kind of transitioned out right when this became a thing but talk to me about 1270 01:44:38,200 --> 01:44:43,840 lithium ion batteries in vehicles and fires that you you know what are some of the things 1271 01:44:43,840 --> 01:44:49,740 that you're talking about and educating the fire service on when it comes to that topic 1272 01:44:49,740 --> 01:44:54,840 so full disclosure I really have no experience when it comes to the vehicle fires what I 1273 01:44:54,840 --> 01:45:00,960 have experience with is micro mobility vehicles inside structures hoverbirds skateboards e-bikes 1274 01:45:00,960 --> 01:45:05,440 these are the fires we're seeing in New York City we're not so much seeing the e-b fires 1275 01:45:05,440 --> 01:45:11,720 just a matter of time but it's coming the experience I do have is though from going 1276 01:45:11,720 --> 01:45:15,360 to these fires and we go to them often we're at the point now we're going to these fires 1277 01:45:15,360 --> 01:45:21,960 on a daily basis citywide is it changing our tactics not necessarily changing but we have 1278 01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:25,800 to look at things a little bit differently we have to pay attention to details right 1279 01:45:25,800 --> 01:45:31,200 I always say the devil's in the details but we have to realign ourselves of what we're 1280 01:45:31,200 --> 01:45:38,920 doing as simple as the backup line how often do we go to a fire and we stretch a backup 1281 01:45:38,920 --> 01:45:44,480 line now the books are written that the first backup line is to back up the first line and 1282 01:45:44,480 --> 01:45:49,000 once we realize that line is making progress we can reposition that line to the floor above 1283 01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:55,320 or wherever else the interest commander feels that line should go one step further we go 1284 01:45:55,320 --> 01:46:00,800 to a fire one room fire water on the fire whatever it may be a lot of times that backup 1285 01:46:00,800 --> 01:46:05,120 line isn't even charged it's not ready to go we have to start thinking about things 1286 01:46:05,120 --> 01:46:09,120 differently in the sense that every time we go these lithium ion battery fires it's not 1287 01:46:09,120 --> 01:46:15,080 necessarily the battery that caused the fire but we can have a device in the home in the 1288 01:46:15,080 --> 01:46:20,040 apartment that is thermally loaded because of the seat of the fire putting the heat onto 1289 01:46:20,040 --> 01:46:25,120 that battery and then having that throw a runaway when it's running away it could fail 1290 01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:31,080 at any time if it fails behind the advancing engine well now we have the engine company 1291 01:46:31,080 --> 01:46:37,320 with a line burn through and people trapped beyond the fire that's something we have to 1292 01:46:37,320 --> 01:46:41,960 talk about having that backup lines charged and ready to go to work at all times head 1293 01:46:41,960 --> 01:46:46,560 on a swivel so something that was so quick to be moved to the floor above for maybe a 1294 01:46:46,560 --> 01:46:51,720 little bit of extension i think that having that line in place is so important as well 1295 01:46:51,720 --> 01:46:58,560 is now talking about getting above and opposite the fire a lot of times people are putting 1296 01:46:58,560 --> 01:47:03,520 these e-bikes right inside the apartment door they're failing they're pushing people to 1297 01:47:03,520 --> 01:47:08,040 windows and they're jumping out windows we have to have the conversation of how are we 1298 01:47:08,040 --> 01:47:13,440 getting these people out now the roof rope rescues right not every department is carrying 1299 01:47:13,440 --> 01:47:17,280 a life-saving rope for staffing for the right off the bat staffing is an issue right so 1300 01:47:17,280 --> 01:47:21,600 how are we getting a guy on the above in a fireproof building or on the roof of a non-fireproof 1301 01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:26,240 building with a rope and how are we going to deploy that well that's something we have 1302 01:47:26,240 --> 01:47:29,640 to kind of delegate manpower we have to start looking things again a little bit differently 1303 01:47:29,640 --> 01:47:34,280 because when these devices are failing against pushing civilians to windows we have to be 1304 01:47:34,280 --> 01:47:39,600 able to get them from the opposite side that's from a portable ground ladder if it's out 1305 01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:43,360 of the reach of the ladder out of the reach of an aerial but in the rear we have to be 1306 01:47:43,360 --> 01:47:48,160 able to drop down from a below and get them it's just a matter of time before your department 1307 01:47:48,160 --> 01:47:52,560 sees it you may think it's big city problems i'm telling you it's not a big city problem 1308 01:47:52,560 --> 01:47:59,240 it's coming to any suburb or rural town near you it's just a matter of time what about 1309 01:47:59,240 --> 01:48:03,840 extinguishment have there been any advances into how to actually extinguish the fire or 1310 01:48:03,840 --> 01:48:09,840 is it really at this point just getting the people away from it so extinguishment is just 1311 01:48:09,840 --> 01:48:14,160 copious amounts of water we have to flow a lot of water the only thing we found to this 1312 01:48:14,160 --> 01:48:19,400 point to stop the runaway is cell block which is an agent that you call it over packing 1313 01:48:19,400 --> 01:48:23,520 you put it into a drum you over pack it and it leeches the heat out of these batteries 1314 01:48:23,520 --> 01:48:28,080 and thermal runaway the key with that is though we have to understand that we have to dismantle 1315 01:48:28,080 --> 01:48:34,000 the module and take the actual cells and then leech the heat out of the cell if you put 1316 01:48:34,000 --> 01:48:39,880 the module in you can't it won't cast around that cell and properly leech it and then we're 1317 01:48:39,880 --> 01:48:44,600 seeing fires that are in the containers exploding later on not so much within the job but if 1318 01:48:44,600 --> 01:48:48,600 you hire a private agency these are kind of the corners they cut out of i don't know if 1319 01:48:48,600 --> 01:48:52,640 it's laziness or lack of education but that's the problems we're seeing when you bring in 1320 01:48:52,640 --> 01:48:58,120 outside agencies to do your over packing one thing that i wanted to slide in before we 1321 01:48:58,120 --> 01:49:03,880 go to closing questions i meant to earlier you in the conversation with pete talked about 1322 01:49:03,880 --> 01:49:11,800 um the kind of the way that fdny was received post immediately post 9 11 versus you know 1323 01:49:11,800 --> 01:49:17,440 20 plus years later um you touched on covid 19 mandates and it's funny i've got a a bit 1324 01:49:17,440 --> 01:49:21,200 of a cold now so i'm going to call it sebastian 12 because it seems to be trendy now to name 1325 01:49:21,200 --> 01:49:28,160 your viruses um but you know it's an important conversation joking aside is you know one minute 1326 01:49:28,160 --> 01:49:34,480 we're revered the next minute you know john stewarts on tv begging to just get these and 1327 01:49:34,480 --> 01:49:40,800 obviously not not just him he was the voice of fdny begging to get the coverage for the 1328 01:49:40,800 --> 01:49:46,160 men and women that were dying from cancer from 9 11 related illnesses you also talked 1329 01:49:46,160 --> 01:49:52,040 about the way that funerals were done before so just before we go to the closing questions 1330 01:49:52,040 --> 01:49:59,280 talk to me about that you know what what have we lost as far as um the recognition of the 1331 01:49:59,280 --> 01:50:04,080 sacrifices then and that continue to happen and how can we bolster the brotherhood and 1332 01:50:04,080 --> 01:50:10,040 sisterhood and and refine that connection with the community so that we're back to the 9 1333 01:50:10,040 --> 01:50:11,800 12 that we all romanticize about 1334 01:50:11,800 --> 01:50:18,480 it's a good question the challenging question as far as from the public's eye because we 1335 01:50:18,480 --> 01:50:22,840 really can't dictate what the public perceives of us but i think that starts with going back 1336 01:50:22,840 --> 01:50:27,960 to the power of kindness when we start allowing ourselves to be kind to the public and interact 1337 01:50:27,960 --> 01:50:32,320 with them and not be so anti-social i think we can draw that back in i don't think it's 1338 01:50:32,320 --> 01:50:37,320 necessarily just a sense of hate towards us i think it's that when you put down that big 1339 01:50:37,320 --> 01:50:41,520 door and you isolate yourself they forget who you are until something bad happens it's 1340 01:50:41,520 --> 01:50:45,680 like anything else so i think by just going back to being kind to people interacting with 1341 01:50:45,680 --> 01:50:49,880 the public bringing the kids in and talk with them i think we can build back that love for 1342 01:50:49,880 --> 01:50:56,840 the fire service internally though this is the problem i think that covid we we got away 1343 01:50:56,840 --> 01:51:02,800 from traditions and this was something i talked about in the firehouse with the guys was saying 1344 01:51:02,800 --> 01:51:07,960 we can't lose sight of traditions because we were going to funerals but we weren't allowed 1345 01:51:07,960 --> 01:51:15,560 to go to funerals so we would do a modified funeral more or less we lost sight of doing 1346 01:51:15,560 --> 01:51:22,520 our memorial day our medal day all these things they cancelled because of covid like they 1347 01:51:22,520 --> 01:51:29,640 cancelled the world with that we lost traditions and we it was so incredibly hard to keep that 1348 01:51:29,640 --> 01:51:33,880 and maintain the young firefighters understanding that these traditions are important we've 1349 01:51:33,880 --> 01:51:38,600 used these we've done these traditions for many many years and just because the government 1350 01:51:38,600 --> 01:51:42,240 and the administration steps in and tells us we can't we have to remain diligent and 1351 01:51:42,240 --> 01:51:48,200 do it we have to keep going forward with this job that's very very important funerals for 1352 01:51:48,200 --> 01:51:54,960 example though and just to circle back i brought it up earlier a little bit i feel that just 1353 01:51:54,960 --> 01:52:01,640 across the board in the fire service not covid related just like everything else we're losing 1354 01:52:01,640 --> 01:52:05,760 tradition and i think that funerals are something that's very important that we have to maintain 1355 01:52:05,760 --> 01:52:14,400 you know we all have like the dinner dance committee we have the softball team the hockey 1356 01:52:14,400 --> 01:52:18,520 team everyone's got some kind of committee or responsibility in the firehouse and i challenge 1357 01:52:18,520 --> 01:52:22,560 a lot of the younger and smaller departments out there maybe to come up with the funeral 1358 01:52:22,560 --> 01:52:28,080 committee and then you represent your department and you go to the line of duty deaths let's 1359 01:52:28,080 --> 01:52:31,400 start county-wide right and then you build up you have a couple fundraisers and then 1360 01:52:31,400 --> 01:52:35,680 it goes statewide and then it goes across the nation but that way you can represent 1361 01:52:35,680 --> 01:52:39,480 because i honestly feel if you take care of this job it'll take care of you tenfold but 1362 01:52:39,480 --> 01:52:43,760 it starts from doing the right thing from the beginning so we can't lose sight of funerals 1363 01:52:43,760 --> 01:52:48,800 funerals are not an option it is mandatory absolutely and this is why i started this 1364 01:52:48,800 --> 01:52:52,800 podcast is the other side that conversation is how do we reduce the amount of funerals 1365 01:52:52,800 --> 01:52:58,160 you know i've always said we're very good when we do a full you know regalia full funeral 1366 01:52:58,160 --> 01:53:02,080 but it's to the point where i can't stand the sound of bagpipes now because i've been 1367 01:53:02,080 --> 01:53:07,200 to so many it's just the inception of this so how do we also you know work on the things 1368 01:53:07,200 --> 01:53:12,540 that are actually killing us we focus so much on the operations side and rightly so but 1369 01:53:12,540 --> 01:53:16,120 the work week you know the mental health all these other conversations you know the the 1370 01:53:16,120 --> 01:53:21,120 cleaner cabs i mean all these also are going to lead to less funerals which needs to be 1371 01:53:21,120 --> 01:53:27,880 part of the conversation too yeah absolutely so talk to me then you know 1372 01:53:27,880 --> 01:53:32,280 now you know you've you've led us through this this story career up to this point what 1373 01:53:32,280 --> 01:53:36,080 made you decide to to want to get out there and teach and tell me about the creation of 1374 01:53:36,080 --> 01:53:42,480 top floor tactics so that's a great question actually and i get that often and the response 1375 01:53:42,480 --> 01:53:46,720 really isn't when people want to hear but there's really no nothing special about it 1376 01:53:46,720 --> 01:53:51,080 i kept a journal as a probie in the new york city fire department we had to keep a journal 1377 01:53:51,080 --> 01:53:54,900 from day one and you write all your experiences your reading lessons and all these things 1378 01:53:54,900 --> 01:54:00,600 for your first year and then the officer signs off on it then the chief would come by and 1379 01:54:00,600 --> 01:54:05,080 he reads it he signs off on it and it's just it's a nice little thing we do as far as training 1380 01:54:05,080 --> 01:54:09,060 to stay into the job stay motivated and have some a bit of accountability for yourself 1381 01:54:09,060 --> 01:54:14,920 in your first year for me i kept it throughout my career and i didn't only write good points 1382 01:54:14,920 --> 01:54:19,600 i wrote a lot of my mistakes down and i have books and books and books of mistakes and 1383 01:54:19,600 --> 01:54:23,840 i compiled them all together and that's pretty much how i move forward through my career 1384 01:54:23,840 --> 01:54:29,400 around 2017 2018 i kind of hit a like a lull in my career not that things were were bad 1385 01:54:29,400 --> 01:54:32,880 per se i was just a little burnt out i mean i'll be honest i think it happens to all of 1386 01:54:32,880 --> 01:54:39,360 us we just don't all admit it um kind of messing around in social media i never followed any 1387 01:54:39,360 --> 01:54:43,500 social media accounts as far as firefighting i didn't even know they existed it was a subculture 1388 01:54:43,500 --> 01:54:47,780 of society i knew nothing of and i came across some stuff and i was like oh wow this is pretty 1389 01:54:47,780 --> 01:54:51,440 good it kind of gave me a little rebirth to just kind of see that there was more to this 1390 01:54:51,440 --> 01:54:56,160 job than what i just had in the fdny now again things were incredibly good i was just kind 1391 01:54:56,160 --> 01:55:01,960 of in a lull um so seeing what was out there i said you know what i can do this so i compiled 1392 01:55:01,960 --> 01:55:08,160 these notes and put them into a series of posts i put them into a series of posts and 1393 01:55:08,160 --> 01:55:13,880 then with that i create a top four tactic because i did it through a an alias account 1394 01:55:13,880 --> 01:55:19,440 because when i did it i put it i started around 2018 and social media was not accepted in 1395 01:55:19,440 --> 01:55:25,160 the firehouse it's fucking in accepted in the fire service especially in in my job um 1396 01:55:25,160 --> 01:55:28,600 i felt that i'd navigated it properly over the years and i think there's something to 1397 01:55:28,600 --> 01:55:35,320 that but now it's common like the job's using social media so for the first few years it 1398 01:55:35,320 --> 01:55:40,880 was it was a fine line to walk and now moving forward it's opened up so many doors for me 1399 01:55:40,880 --> 01:55:47,320 and it's just i think the main thing is from the people that follow me i think understanding 1400 01:55:47,320 --> 01:55:51,880 humility and that's was my ultimate goal was to teach young firefighters that aggressive 1401 01:55:51,880 --> 01:55:56,480 firefighting isn't necessarily about being aggressive or or over the top firefighter 1402 01:55:56,480 --> 01:56:00,560 it's understanding that aggressive firefighting comes from a series of mistakes that we make 1403 01:56:00,560 --> 01:56:05,460 and we compile them all together that's where confidence comes from that's where education 1404 01:56:05,460 --> 01:56:10,240 comes from and that's where the true understanding of this job comes from and i put into social 1405 01:56:10,240 --> 01:56:16,280 media and that allowed me to go out and eventually speak talk to me more about humility i feel 1406 01:56:16,280 --> 01:56:23,440 like that is an area that's missing quite a bit in the fire service and again not everyone 1407 01:56:23,440 --> 01:56:27,680 boots on the ground but more so as you start seeing you know bugles on collars and there 1408 01:56:27,680 --> 01:56:32,720 are some phenomenal officers slash leaders out there but there's also a lot of people 1409 01:56:32,720 --> 01:56:38,360 that have the pieces of paper but their egos are so fragile that they're not listening 1410 01:56:38,360 --> 01:56:42,920 to their men and women on the ground there's a huge disconnect so how does a young firefighter 1411 01:56:42,920 --> 01:56:51,600 or someone who's progressing through the ranks retain that humility in this profession 1412 01:56:51,600 --> 01:56:54,960 how do you retain that's a good question i think i mean that's my that's my number one 1413 01:56:54,960 --> 01:57:00,880 goal is is to have this next generation understand that we're human and there's a human side 1414 01:57:00,880 --> 01:57:06,040 of this job that that we kind of try to mask through type a personalities and and the farther 1415 01:57:06,040 --> 01:57:09,680 you get i feel like the more disconnected you are from what's going on like you said 1416 01:57:09,680 --> 01:57:13,560 boots on the ground the farther you go up the rank you're not in tune with the guys 1417 01:57:13,560 --> 01:57:17,440 in the firehouse and the true problems and mistakes being made there on on every level 1418 01:57:17,440 --> 01:57:23,320 um i just hope that moving forward that the generation coming in now can understand that 1419 01:57:23,320 --> 01:57:28,720 that human factor truly is a part of this job and that we aren't robots the fire academy 1420 01:57:28,720 --> 01:57:34,040 is doing a disservice right training these young firefighters to become fire robots coming 1421 01:57:34,040 --> 01:57:40,200 out into the neighborhoods making your mistakes in real time that's what's going to make 1422 01:57:40,200 --> 01:57:43,960 you a great firefighter and i think that if we can train the kids coming on now that it's 1423 01:57:43,960 --> 01:57:47,960 okay to make the mistakes compile them together and then move forward i'm hopefully that they 1424 01:57:47,960 --> 01:57:52,000 will carry that through their career as they rise to the ranks and kind of change the culture 1425 01:57:52,000 --> 01:57:57,160 of the fire service so talk to me about the different classes that you offer through top 1426 01:57:57,160 --> 01:58:03,760 floor tactics so i have a it's called fire academy to the fire floor why the disconnect 1427 01:58:03,760 --> 01:58:07,480 and that's like my that's that's my heart and soul that's everything i put into it you 1428 01:58:07,480 --> 01:58:11,480 know that's pretty much the journal of mistakes that i made i put into a lecture in a class 1429 01:58:11,480 --> 01:58:17,800 with uh fire there was a close call situation and that kind of sets the tempo of the class 1430 01:58:17,800 --> 01:58:23,160 and it kind of goes throughout and now this class is a bit unique because it's broken 1431 01:58:23,160 --> 01:58:28,600 down from your first day through your first fire your second fire your fourth fire your 1432 01:58:28,600 --> 01:58:34,200 tenth fire your 12 flyer so everybody can relate to the class from their own experience 1433 01:58:34,200 --> 01:58:37,760 because my experience is different than your experience and so forth and so on but when 1434 01:58:37,760 --> 01:58:41,920 you sit in the class it really speaks to you because you can relate those times in your 1435 01:58:41,920 --> 01:58:49,360 life to what's being said in the program um i also offer lithium-ion battery fires understanding 1436 01:58:49,360 --> 01:58:55,480 a modern fire in a tactical sense that class is pretty much it's being built every day 1437 01:58:55,480 --> 01:59:00,840 uh we're going to these fires we're learning new things every day this is a true class 1438 01:59:00,840 --> 01:59:05,240 that is built on experience um there's a lot of classes out there given through like the 1439 01:59:05,240 --> 01:59:09,440 ul and whatnot this is not a hazmat class by any means i don't sit on any discussion 1440 01:59:09,440 --> 01:59:14,260 boards or nfpa or any of that stuff it just comes from going to the fires kind of compiling 1441 01:59:14,260 --> 01:59:19,720 these ideas that were coming up in real time and putting it all together um that's a class 1442 01:59:19,720 --> 01:59:23,880 i love to give and it's it's it's picky at momentum because people are looking for answers 1443 01:59:23,880 --> 01:59:28,800 and unfortunately with the fire service i think across the board we're reactive rather 1444 01:59:28,800 --> 01:59:33,060 than proactive and it's going to take a matter of a fireman getting severely hurt or killed 1445 01:59:33,060 --> 01:59:37,800 for our job or or job in general the fire service to start looking at lithium-ion battery 1446 01:59:37,800 --> 01:59:41,600 fires from a tactical sense a little bit more serious and that's where this class kind of 1447 01:59:41,600 --> 01:59:46,680 fills in those gaps as we're sitting here i'd literally about two hours before we sat 1448 01:59:46,680 --> 01:59:53,160 down i saw la had i think it was seven firefighters hurt and one of the i posted just that that 1449 01:59:53,160 --> 01:59:56,560 did it happen i didn't have any video or anything and one of the la firefighters sent me a video 1450 01:59:56,560 --> 02:00:00,360 which i you're not going to repost because it was literally of the incident and there's 1451 02:00:00,360 --> 02:00:05,520 a firefighter down in the video but this is the thing i mean some of these chemicals some 1452 02:00:05,520 --> 02:00:09,360 of these batteries i don't know exactly what the backstory was of that particular vehicle 1453 02:00:09,360 --> 02:00:16,760 but the dangers are so severe and what might look like a you know seemingly for example 1454 02:00:16,760 --> 02:00:22,720 easy routine car fire now could be something that explodes and you know takes out several 1455 02:00:22,720 --> 02:00:27,640 firefighters on a crew yeah and there's and there's two ways to look at that yeah the 1456 02:00:27,640 --> 02:00:32,800 ev fires that were no responding to these these electrical vehicle fires but something 1457 02:00:32,800 --> 02:00:36,840 that's not really being spoken about is the underground world of battery making and with 1458 02:00:36,840 --> 02:00:44,000 that there's a delivery network system especially in the inner cities where post covid when 1459 02:00:44,000 --> 02:00:49,000 these stores came in and they closed down they got smart and realized well we could 1460 02:00:49,000 --> 02:00:52,920 develop these ghost kitchens where we don't necessarily need to have the storefront because 1461 02:00:52,920 --> 02:00:56,920 when the government came in they closed the dining room but those kitchens remained open 1462 02:00:56,920 --> 02:01:02,760 and they still made food but they were delivered right take out and delivery the ghost kitchens 1463 02:01:02,760 --> 02:01:06,800 were now made because they say well we don't need to have this the storefront we don't 1464 02:01:06,800 --> 02:01:12,280 have to pay the overhead we can just have a basement apartment kitchen and have it picked 1465 02:01:12,280 --> 02:01:17,620 up and delivered so with that the delivery network system within the five rows especially 1466 02:01:17,620 --> 02:01:24,160 is rampant so we have people charging batteries in apartments and then delivering these batteries 1467 02:01:24,160 --> 02:01:28,560 to all the restaurants in the area or all the delivery networks in the area and that's 1468 02:01:28,560 --> 02:01:32,560 where we're seeing the problem so you could go to a routine car or van fire and it can 1469 02:01:32,560 --> 02:01:35,800 be loaded with with hundreds of pounds of lithium ions so essentially you're going to 1470 02:01:35,800 --> 02:01:41,640 a bomb yeah yeah well i appreciate that perspective well that's what you're teaching then to talk 1471 02:01:41,640 --> 02:01:45,480 to me about the podcast when you were talking to pete i think you were about to launch it 1472 02:01:45,480 --> 02:01:50,600 so kind of how have the last few weeks been and we talked before we hit record let me 1473 02:01:50,600 --> 02:01:56,320 know what are some of the road uh blocks that you found so far man there's so many roadblocks 1474 02:01:56,320 --> 02:02:01,340 so anyone who thinks podcasting is easy and they're going to start a podcast there's so 1475 02:02:01,340 --> 02:02:06,380 much to it and it's like i constantly say like fall in love with the process of like 1476 02:02:06,380 --> 02:02:10,700 becoming a firefighter don't rush the process and i'm trying to remind myself not to rush 1477 02:02:10,700 --> 02:02:14,840 this and to take every moment and learn because of course you want to start and have it run 1478 02:02:14,840 --> 02:02:20,600 perfectly but you've been doing this what seven years you said yes so so i'm up to episode 1479 02:02:20,600 --> 02:02:27,580 eight comes out tomorrow to come out this friday and uh i'm forever grateful for germy 1480 02:02:27,580 --> 02:02:31,720 you know germy and uh for germy dines to bring me on the national fire radio platform and 1481 02:02:31,720 --> 02:02:34,520 he's kind of guiding me because he has experience with this obviously he's been doing it for 1482 02:02:34,520 --> 02:02:40,880 years as well um it's been a challenge but my main goal is to push the issues and topics 1483 02:02:40,880 --> 02:02:47,580 of of the tactics side of this job i feel a lot of times podcast hosts an interview 1484 02:02:47,580 --> 02:02:54,280 type situation the podcast host is just simply trying to prove his guest right and i will 1485 02:02:54,280 --> 02:02:57,680 not necessarily want to prove anyone wrong but i want to have an intimate conversation 1486 02:02:57,680 --> 02:03:02,000 or topic on the tactics that we're debating in the fire service and that's where ultimately 1487 02:03:02,000 --> 02:03:05,680 i want to get to uh it's coming i promise it's just a matter of time to get there i've 1488 02:03:05,680 --> 02:03:10,520 kind of worked through the software the networking system of this but uh every day i get a little 1489 02:03:10,520 --> 02:03:14,680 bit better and i'm starting to figure this out so uh stay tuned there's more to come 1490 02:03:14,680 --> 02:03:17,800 and for those of you that have tuned in i appreciate it and thank you and hang in there 1491 02:03:17,800 --> 02:03:26,480 it's coming so what are some of the roadblocks that you've hit cameras software the board 1492 02:03:26,480 --> 02:03:32,400 i mean there's always something coming up but mainly beyond the technical beyond the 1493 02:03:32,400 --> 02:03:36,960 equipment right sitting here and talking to a camera is incredibly hard having conversations 1494 02:03:36,960 --> 02:03:42,920 a bit easier but just talking to a camera and having a bit of spoken word of dialogue 1495 02:03:42,920 --> 02:03:49,160 it's challenging so i do it but like they've been short episodes they've been five 10 minutes 1496 02:03:49,160 --> 02:03:54,680 at most one coming out that's i think 20 minutes it's slowly building as i gain confidence 1497 02:03:54,680 --> 02:03:58,520 on how to do it i guess and kind of feel comfortable in the moment like everything else it takes 1498 02:03:58,520 --> 02:04:02,360 time as a young firefighter you're never truly comfortable until you get a couple fires on 1499 02:04:02,360 --> 02:04:06,560 your belt a few mistakes so i'm getting a few pockets out of my belt a few mistakes 1500 02:04:06,560 --> 02:04:10,600 have been made and i'm hopefully progressively moving forward with this but that's been the 1501 02:04:10,600 --> 02:04:15,480 main challenge is not so much the equipment but gaining the confidence to do it yeah you'll 1502 02:04:15,480 --> 02:04:21,320 get there i mean i seven years and almost 900 episodes later i still fumble all over 1503 02:04:21,320 --> 02:04:26,200 the intro this week is so and so and this is what it's about and i yeah and then when 1504 02:04:26,200 --> 02:04:29,560 i do every so often i'll do a little instagram video it's the same thing you know what you 1505 02:04:29,560 --> 02:04:34,080 see is probably take 12 so uh yeah just i think that's just part of being a human you 1506 02:04:34,080 --> 02:04:37,760 know and i think uh the people that are in the entertainment industry might be able to 1507 02:04:37,760 --> 02:04:41,560 do it a little bit better but i think if you look behind the scenes of most of them they're 1508 02:04:41,560 --> 02:04:45,480 doing exactly what you're already doing now yeah you know the difference between written 1509 02:04:45,480 --> 02:04:51,840 word and spoken word is that when you read something you can kind of perceive what you 1510 02:04:51,840 --> 02:04:56,480 want to believe in it but then when you hear someone or look at someone talk to you and 1511 02:04:56,480 --> 02:05:00,560 you hear the spoken word well there's no room for debate really it's kind of it is what 1512 02:05:00,560 --> 02:05:06,240 it is and that's the challenge is that i love written word like writing is my passion um 1513 02:05:06,240 --> 02:05:11,080 and i'm very dialed in inaccurate with my writing i feel it's just my style now that's 1514 02:05:11,080 --> 02:05:15,240 kind of verbal to put it into verbal and to speak it to you that's where the challenge 1515 02:05:15,240 --> 02:05:20,400 lies of just trying to understand what i'm saying and how important it has to be and 1516 02:05:20,400 --> 02:05:25,320 how dialed in and it has to be because there's no room for debate absolutely well that's 1517 02:05:25,320 --> 02:05:30,000 a good segue the first of the closing questions is there a book or are there books that you 1518 02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:34,240 love to recommend it can be related to our discussion today or completely unrelated 1519 02:05:34,240 --> 02:05:42,040 you know i don't read much as far as firefighting uh if any at that matter i can't think of 1520 02:05:42,040 --> 02:05:48,480 any recent firefighting book that i read probably in 10 years other than study material um but 1521 02:05:48,480 --> 02:05:54,080 i do like to read sports book positioning books i just read um mastering the game of 1522 02:05:54,080 --> 02:05:59,960 hockey now i don't play hockey but i relate that to the positioning on the ice how you 1523 02:05:59,960 --> 02:06:05,080 look at a fire building and you position your firefighters into the fire building uh i think 1524 02:06:05,080 --> 02:06:11,000 there's a lot of a lot of connection to that i do like um recently i've read some jaco 1525 02:06:11,000 --> 02:06:17,160 which i know it is what it is but i it's very easy read and i've kind of dove into that 1526 02:06:17,160 --> 02:06:22,480 i think that leadership is overplayed and it's drawn out and it's watered down i think 1527 02:06:22,480 --> 02:06:27,400 jaco is a nice way of just keeping it real but i think what we're losing in leadership 1528 02:06:27,400 --> 02:06:31,040 not to get off the beaten path but there's a lot of these leadership books that people 1529 02:06:31,040 --> 02:06:36,320 recommend we have to understand that leadership comes from within and it comes from a series 1530 02:06:36,320 --> 02:06:40,560 of making mistakes as well but also a series of love and understanding your people and 1531 02:06:40,560 --> 02:06:45,000 that's nothing a book can can teach you you have to make these decisions on the fly you 1532 02:06:45,000 --> 02:06:48,880 have to learn from doing it you can't read a book on leadership i know it's a hot topic 1533 02:06:48,880 --> 02:06:53,640 right now but um so i don't really go down the path of like the leadership side of things 1534 02:06:53,640 --> 02:06:58,280 again i just kind of keep it simple uh read some sports books and uh current events as 1535 02:06:58,280 --> 02:07:03,360 well like if you read the new york times if you read any local paper you can kind of see 1536 02:07:03,360 --> 02:07:07,180 what's going on in in your neighborhood and that kind of affects what goes on in real 1537 02:07:07,180 --> 02:07:13,440 life on the fire ground i was thinking about this recently you know you obviously if you 1538 02:07:13,440 --> 02:07:19,000 follow certain fire pages you see you know chiefs organizations giving out leadership 1539 02:07:19,000 --> 02:07:24,080 awards or whatever and i was just thinking you know if you receive leadership awards 1540 02:07:24,080 --> 02:07:29,480 and your men and women are working 56 hours a week plus mandatory overtime you probably 1541 02:07:29,480 --> 02:07:33,920 need to give that fucking award back so you actually sort it out that's that's my my my 1542 02:07:33,920 --> 02:07:37,360 perception you know there's a lot of hats on the back and you know we've got to wait 1543 02:07:37,360 --> 02:07:42,860 for them to walk the walk i'm on the same page with that brother trust me all right 1544 02:07:42,860 --> 02:07:48,040 what about films and documentaries that you love film i'm a big 80s guy but i love any 1545 02:07:48,040 --> 02:07:56,200 old 80s movie but um documentaries you know i grew up watching the uh the brothers in 1546 02:07:56,200 --> 02:08:02,240 battle one for the fdny and then also there's a um one i think it was called rescue three 1547 02:08:02,240 --> 02:08:06,360 nasa geographic did it but that's a great one and they're two classic documentaries 1548 02:08:06,360 --> 02:08:09,640 on the fdny so for those of you that have never seen it and you want to see what the 1549 02:08:09,640 --> 02:08:14,240 fdny was in the earlier years it's not so much up to date today uh they were filmed 1550 02:08:14,240 --> 02:08:19,440 in i guess probably the late 80s but kind of like that was what i always wanted to do 1551 02:08:19,440 --> 02:08:22,440 that were they were my heroes they were my new york yankees were watching these five 1552 02:08:22,440 --> 02:08:26,040 and and i'm so blessed now that a lot of these guys that i'm friends with now so it's just 1553 02:08:26,040 --> 02:08:31,280 it's pretty amazing but as far as documentaries uh i will go down the buff route and say those 1554 02:08:31,280 --> 02:08:37,160 are two that i really really enjoy total tangent from a question didn't ask you earlier i had 1555 02:08:37,160 --> 02:08:42,960 al benjamin on a while ago now kind of rescue one legend and uh senior man his whole life 1556 02:08:42,960 --> 02:08:46,960 and i never rose above firefighter partly from geography but the other part is i just 1557 02:08:46,960 --> 02:08:50,480 loved going in i didn't want to be in some of these roles a lot of times the engineer 1558 02:08:50,480 --> 02:08:55,440 was pumping you know the lt or captain was outside so i just still loved the job of the 1559 02:08:55,440 --> 02:09:00,480 firefighter just talk to me quickly about the senior man because what i think we have 1560 02:09:00,480 --> 02:09:06,240 a lot in the places where i've worked we are you know woefully understaffed so therefore 1561 02:09:06,240 --> 02:09:10,240 you've got a lot i mean some of these departments you know 50 has got five years or less on 1562 02:09:10,240 --> 02:09:14,720 now and so there's a rush then to promote to get off the rescue or the engine like you 1563 02:09:14,720 --> 02:09:18,160 said they're running their ass off on ams calls and now you've got an engineer with 1564 02:09:18,160 --> 02:09:24,160 two years on the job you're an lt with three years on the job but some of my best mentors 1565 02:09:24,160 --> 02:09:29,440 that weren't officers were senior firefighters that i looked up to incredibly so just kind 1566 02:09:29,440 --> 02:09:35,840 of talk to me about your perspective of the senior firefighter role just a quick story 1567 02:09:35,840 --> 02:09:40,880 of al benjamin it's a story that i've never really told anyone but since you brought his 1568 02:09:40,880 --> 02:09:44,880 name up i was a young firefighter working in manhattan we were at a fire i think it was 1569 02:09:44,880 --> 02:09:49,280 a sub seller in the church i'm a pro be i'm standing there and there he was and now 1570 02:09:49,920 --> 02:09:56,400 going back to the power of kindness i say this man did something that day for me that i'll 1571 02:09:56,400 --> 02:10:01,040 never forget and here i am over 20 years later telling you the story and he he did nothing but 1572 02:10:01,040 --> 02:10:07,200 just be nice to me he's a guy in rescue one i'm looking up to this giant right everyone knows 1573 02:10:07,200 --> 02:10:14,800 who he is he's the face of rescue one and he sees me just staring at him in the moment and like it 1574 02:10:14,800 --> 02:10:19,760 was kind of a fire that there was it was an outside fire and we they had the jackhammer this piece of 1575 02:10:19,760 --> 02:10:25,760 slate away the access of the sub seller below and he sees me standing there and he pulls me over and 1576 02:10:25,760 --> 02:10:30,880 says seems like you want to learn something kid i said yeah and he and he showed me how to do it 1577 02:10:30,880 --> 02:10:35,280 and he got my hands on the jackhammer then i was working with them it was a matter of probably 1578 02:10:35,280 --> 02:10:40,560 like three minutes of of my career but it was three minutes that i hold very dearly to me because in 1579 02:10:40,560 --> 02:10:45,600 that act i knew that to be a kind firefighter will make you a professional firefighter and that's 1580 02:10:45,600 --> 02:10:49,280 something i learned from him so that's it i mean that's the senior man i think that 1581 02:10:50,880 --> 02:10:53,760 kindness i keep going back to kindness but that's very important because 1582 02:10:55,040 --> 02:11:00,400 being the senior guy a lot of guys think well if you're just a prick or you're just an asshole more 1583 02:11:00,400 --> 02:11:05,040 or less you're the senior guy that's not the case because and it's also not the guy with the most 1584 02:11:05,040 --> 02:11:09,520 time it's the guy that understands of doing the right thing on the fire ground of course but more 1585 02:11:09,520 --> 02:11:14,400 so on the fire and in the firehouse doing the right thing behind the scenes that's the senior 1586 02:11:14,400 --> 02:11:18,560 man it's not something that's appointed it's something that you earn and that's what we have 1587 02:11:18,560 --> 02:11:24,720 to understand that it's not always the guy that has 25 years 30 years it could be the guy with 18 1588 02:11:24,720 --> 02:11:30,240 years but he's doing everything right and he's the guy people are drawn to absolutely i mean 1589 02:11:30,240 --> 02:11:34,800 al was so humble it's funny because someone told me a very similar story they had one interaction 1590 02:11:34,800 --> 02:11:40,000 with him i forget who the guest was now obviously someone either from fdny or the ems side i'm 1591 02:11:40,000 --> 02:11:44,640 trying to remember but it was the exact same thing it was a moment and they said in that moment he 1592 02:11:44,640 --> 02:11:51,360 was super kind to them and then you contrast that with as we touched on the kind of asshole so-called 1593 02:11:51,360 --> 02:11:56,640 i'm using air quotes salty firefighter who's just a fucking dick and you know you got these young 1594 02:11:56,640 --> 02:12:02,160 guys all these fucking young guys these days and the actual answer is well okay you grew up you 1595 02:12:02,160 --> 02:12:08,080 know son of an accountant and a computer programmer you don't understand how to put a saw in a blade 1596 02:12:08,080 --> 02:12:12,800 on a saw but you're phenomenal and you can help me with my phone however let's go and show you how 1597 02:12:12,800 --> 02:12:17,360 to put a blade on the saw like i said i grew up on a farm so i didn't understand building construction 1598 02:12:17,360 --> 02:12:22,480 i didn't understand you know my way around a car for example but i could drive a tractor and a dump 1599 02:12:22,480 --> 02:12:26,880 truck and you know muck out stables so i had things that i did know and things that i didn't 1600 02:12:27,440 --> 02:12:33,200 and the real mentors in my life are the ones that simply said let me show you now if i had no desire 1601 02:12:33,200 --> 02:12:38,160 to learn then i'm a turd and i need to get out but if i'm trying to become a better version of myself 1602 02:12:38,720 --> 02:12:42,880 the senior firefighter or engineer you know lieutenant captain whatever rank 1603 02:12:43,680 --> 02:12:48,240 that's worth the shit is the one that says oh you don't know well let me show you and then it's up 1604 02:12:48,240 --> 02:12:52,720 to us obviously the young firefighter to show them that you're willing to learn you're willing to keep 1605 02:12:52,720 --> 02:12:57,600 trying it until you get it right yeah and that's exactly what he did in the moment was just give 1606 02:12:57,600 --> 02:13:02,000 me an opportunity and that's all it took was one opportunity to show me what the right thing was 1607 02:13:02,000 --> 02:13:08,000 to do in this job well speaking of amazing humans is there a person that you recommend to come on 1608 02:13:08,000 --> 02:13:12,960 this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders military and associated professions 1609 02:13:12,960 --> 02:13:20,080 of the world i do i'm not sure he would do it he's a pretty humble guy but uh he's a dear friend of 1610 02:13:20,080 --> 02:13:25,280 mine his name is pete partridge he's a special operations retired chief at a nork fire department 1611 02:13:25,280 --> 02:13:32,000 now nork fire department is a city outside new jersey you probably know nork airport but he was 1612 02:13:32,000 --> 02:13:38,080 there all through the war years and it was overshadowed through the fdny obviously but those 1613 02:13:38,080 --> 02:13:42,320 guys were doing just as much work as anyone and they are probably some of the best most incredible 1614 02:13:42,320 --> 02:13:47,200 firemen you'll ever meet but this guy lives and breathes this job and he's just a tremendous man 1615 02:13:47,200 --> 02:13:51,280 so i think he would be a great guest and there's so much he's like a time capsule he has so much 1616 02:13:51,280 --> 02:13:58,080 information um i think it would be a great great guest to have beautiful well if you're willing to 1617 02:13:58,080 --> 02:14:03,760 try i would be honored to have him on so it's an open invitation i'll give him my best shot but i'm 1618 02:14:03,760 --> 02:14:08,720 not sure he'll do it you never know all right well then the last question before we make sure 1619 02:14:08,720 --> 02:14:12,800 everyone knows where to find you and all the the other sites what do you do to decompress 1620 02:14:16,880 --> 02:14:21,840 i guess i know running i love to run after a long 24 even if i'm up all night i go out for a nice 1621 02:14:21,840 --> 02:14:27,840 long run central park clear my mind um i guess running is decompressing for me again also 1622 02:14:27,840 --> 02:14:33,040 spending time with my family but that moment of running is like you kind of lose everything 1623 02:14:33,040 --> 02:14:41,040 you think clearly and you know it's just it kind of grounds you for real life beautiful well as far 1624 02:14:41,040 --> 02:14:45,440 as top floor tactics and the podcast where are the best places for people to find those online 1625 02:14:46,800 --> 02:14:51,360 uh you could just do on instagram you know top floor tactics and then in my websites top floor 1626 02:14:51,360 --> 02:14:57,200 tactics.com and the email is linked to that or you can it's top for tactics at gmail.com 1627 02:14:57,200 --> 02:15:03,280 and the podcast is a view from the top floor yeah the podcast is a view from the top floor 1628 02:15:03,280 --> 02:15:10,960 and that's on all your major uh podcast platforms beautiful well mickey i want to thank you so much 1629 02:15:10,960 --> 02:15:16,160 we've been all over the place i don't have in-depth operational conversations because i just don't 1630 02:15:16,160 --> 02:15:21,200 feel like i was on the job long enough to really start unpacking things and offering my advice 1631 02:15:21,200 --> 02:15:25,760 but uh you know in this kind of gypsy kind of career i had it gave me some interesting 1632 02:15:25,760 --> 02:15:30,400 perspectives but i want to thank you so much not only for imparting some of your wisdom but also 1633 02:15:30,400 --> 02:15:35,040 just being so generous with your time and coming on the podcast today absolutely james i'm really 1634 02:15:35,040 --> 02:15:59,600 honored to be on the show so thanks for having me on