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This episode is brought to you by Thorne, the industry leader in nutritional solutions.

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Now Thorne is actually trusted by eight U.S.

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as well as recently becoming the official sports performance nutrition partner of the UFC.

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So when it comes to supplements,

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the tactical athlete space and the athletic space need two things.

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Now Thorne has actually been around since the 1980s

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where they were used by physicians and hospitals for nutritional supplements for the patients.

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They were so successful that athletic teams and even special operations teams

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reached out to them and they started supplying them as well.

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Very recently, they actually opened their doors to the general public.

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Now, what sets Thorne apart is they manufacture their own products

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in a state of the art NSF certified facility in South Carolina.

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or arbitrary fillers in the cleanest manufacturing process.

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Most of you listening come from a profession where it can take its toll physically and mentally,

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and many of us are not able to bolster our nutrition purely with the food that we eat.

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And that's where supplementation comes in.

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And if you want to learn even more about Thorne, go to episode

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323 of Behind the Shield podcast and you will hear my interview

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with Wes Barnett and Joel Totoro from Thorne.

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This episode is sponsored by 511, a company that I've used for well over

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a decade and continue to use to this day.

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And 511 is offering you guys the audience of the behind the shield podcast,

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a discount on every purchase you make with them.

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Before we get to that code, I want to highlight a couple of products

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that, again, I personally use today.

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One of the most impressive products they just released is their Rush

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backpack 2.0.

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Now, for many of you, whether you're going to the fire station,

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the police station, whether you're traveling with your family,

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whether you're taking training courses, we have to fly, we have to drive,

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we have to take trains.

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And I have to say I own multiple backpacks, many of 511's different ones.

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But as far as a daypack, this one was the most impressive.

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There are so many different compartments.

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The way it sits on your back is incredibly comfortable.

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If you are a concealed carry person, there's also a spot for a weapon.

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So they've thought of multiple, multiple things that a man or woman

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would have to do on a daily basis.

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That is in addition to all of the products that I talk about a lot.

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The footwear they offer, whether it's the Norris sneaker or the Atlas system

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that is designed for foot health and therefore knees and back and hips

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and shoulders and neck.

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As a civilian, I live in a lot of their clothes as well.

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Their jeans stretch, you can actually squat down in them.

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We live in Florida here, so I wear a lot of their shorts,

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which again, very, very lightweight material.

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You can get it wet and it will dry almost immediately.

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And then moving to the fitness and tactical space,

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I used to have just a regular weight vest.

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Recently, I switched to a 511 vest and actually bought ballistic plates as well.

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My thinking was simply if I'm going to have a vest,

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why not have one that protects me as well?

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but every time you visit their store.

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And if you want to learn more about 511, their mission, their products,

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then listen to episode 338 of the Behind the Shield podcast

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with the CEO and founder, Francisco Morales.

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Welcome to episode 467 of Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing.

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And this week, it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show

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Tori and Anthony Gonzalez.

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Now, this is going to be the first part of a two part series

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I'm doing on the attacks in Parkland, Florida, at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

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As many of you that followed the podcast for a while know,

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I did a similar thing on the Pulse attacks a few months ago.

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voices, the actual men and women and in this case, children that were involved in the incident.

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What breaks my heart when we have an event in schools, especially,

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is it becomes almost immediately a media frenzy and a political polarization

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on gun control or pro guns.

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And the actual voices and the trauma of the people involved are so much more than just

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actual voices and the trauma of the people involved are pretty much discarded

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for these conversations to be had.

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So their stories are lost.

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Their ability to process and grieve is pushed aside

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so that cameras can report on the event and politicians can kind of push their agendas.

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So I wanted to tell the story of the people.

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Now, Anthony and Tori's story is incredibly powerful for a couple of reasons.

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Firstly, Tori was at the high school as a student.

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Her boyfriend Joaquin Oliver was one of the 17 murdered.

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Tori's father, Anthony, was one of the responding

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firefighters and was acting as battalion chief that day.

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So it was one of the first officers on scene.

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So you have a double parallel.

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You have responder and victim slash patient.

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And then you also have father and daughter.

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So you can imagine how harrowing that must have been.

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So learning from the children, the kids that were at the school,

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learning from the responders, we can take away lessons.

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We can hear the stories of the people in the school.

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And we can take that human element and apply it to our own communities as parents,

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as responders, as teachers, and hopefully prevent or at least be prepared for

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an event like that happening, God forbid, in our own towns or cities or counties.

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So before we get to that conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback,

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but most importantly, leave a rating.

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I don't do this for some sort of accolades.

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Every single five star rating the podcast gets, it elevates it on the kind of virtual ladder,

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therefore making it easier to find, more visible for others.

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And this is a free library for you, Planet Earth.

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And so all I ask is that you help share these incredible men and women stories

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so I can get them to everyone else who needs to hear them.

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Because I know many of these episodes will save lives.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you, Tori and Anthony Gonzalez.

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Enjoy.

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I just want to say thank you.

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We're sitting here and everyone listening, yes, there is a soundtrack in the back.

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It's not a band playing.

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We're just in a quiet corner.

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Jungle at the window is beautiful, but yes, there's a soundtrack playing.

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But we're in Fort Lauderdale.

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I'm sitting with Anthony and Tori.

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Thank you so much for trusting me to talk to you today.

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Oh, you're very welcome.

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All right.

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So I want to start at the very, very beginning.

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So that means your dad.

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So Anthony, tell me where you were born and then tell me about your family dynamic,

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what your parents did and how many siblings.

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Well, I was born in Long Island, New York, Smithtown area where I grew up.

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And total of five of us in the family and the dynamic was my dad was always a worker.

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And my mom did work for a little while, but it got to a point that I can remember

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because it's I can only remember back so far.

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But it became a while where she was, you know, she was the caretaker of the family, if you will,

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took care of everybody like most moms do, you know.

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So that's what I remember a lot about.

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So the dynamic was the caring and whatnot and the dad always working.

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So I don't know if you can kind of get that perspective of that's what I was kind of used to.

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And, you know, my brothers, we were all three brothers and two sisters.

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So the three of us kind of did our thing.

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My oldest brother, you know, whatnot, normal pranks, you know, in fights, you know,

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you got that kind of stuff.

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And, you know, my sister and my oldest sister, they kind of did that thing too.

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So it wasn't, I don't know, kind of a point of dynamic of them.

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I mean, we were just being typical kids, you know, growing up.

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And I don't remember anything crazy happening drastic wise or, you know,

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just seemed to me like a normal childhood.

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Right now, you're obviously very, very fit even now.

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We seem to become similar age.

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So back then, what kind of sports were you playing as a kid?

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Well, I was a little bit of a shy kid.

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You know, the shyness still kind of there today.

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But, you know, if you were to see me then and see what I am now,

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you wouldn't think I'm the same person.

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You're an extrovert now.

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Maybe that's what it is.

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You grow up, you learn to deal with some things.

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But back then, I tried out Little League for a little while because I loved baseball.

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I still love baseball to this day.

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And that was where I was at, you know, playing in the yard with my Tonka trucks.

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And, you know, I was a boys boy playing in the yard with matchbox cars, this whole thing.

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So, you know, baseball was really the only thing that I got into.

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You know, I did a little bit of high school football and, I mean,

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during recess kind of thing, but not much stuff other than that.

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Right. Now, what about career aspirations?

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Were you influenced by any responders in family?

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And or were you even dreaming of being a firefighter as a kid?

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Well, to be honest, going through high school,

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actually, when I first saw the high school, I wanted to be a heavy equipment operator.

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So that was kind of my drive.

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But living in a town of nothing but volunteer fire departments,

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you know, you'd hear the whistle go off.

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I would at the same time would chase fire trucks, see what they hear them coming.

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And we go, you know, my bike and go ahead and chase them down to see what they were doing.

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So there was, you know, that little subtle interest at times.

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But, you know, my desire was to be a heavy equipment operator.

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You know, my high school ring is a bulldozer on it.

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Really?

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So, but then but I get to do that today, believe it or not, it kind of comes back,

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circle back into me doing operating some heavy equipment that I do today.

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And when we get to that point, I can touch into what I do with that.

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But I think the neighborhood might the lady or excuse me, the gentleman that lived across

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the street from me was the old ex-fire chief of my fire department at the time where I joined,

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that I did join the volunteer up there.

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That's what kickstarted the career.

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His son was down the street on the corner.

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And then the guy to the left of him, if you're facing his house, was a volunteer.

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So he would always leave with the blue light on going to the firehouse and you hear the whistle

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go off.

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So, you know, there was a call.

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So, you know, it was kind of it was there.

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I mean, maybe that was a little seed that just sort of got planted and it just grew.

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I'm the only one in my family that's a firefighter.

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Now, I always ask volunteers this.

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Some people volunteer and they live in BFE, as people like to call it.

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And it's totally justified.

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You know, there's, you know, one stop sign, a post office and, you know,

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Oh, yeah.

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50 houses.

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One square mile was my town.

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But what I find in the US a lot of times now is that you'll find volunteer fire

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departments in areas that are very densely populated where we probably should have a

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career department.

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What was the dynamic?

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What was the kind of layout where you were?

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Pretty much similar to that.

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Like I said, we're one square mile.

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It wasn't I don't remember the population by any means, but it wasn't a lot of people.

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And again, it's Long Island where I'm from.

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There was nothing but volunteer fire departments.

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So some areas were a little more populated than others, but it's the culture.

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I guess you could say for the Long Island area, as you go get a little closer to the city

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where you'd have that transition to FDNY and obviously the city fireman versus the

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volunteers, which is still strong today.

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So I guess it's just, that's just the neighborhood, even if it's grown, you know,

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they're still going to stay volunteer to my knowledge.

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Now they have trouble responding to calls just like some volunteer fire departments.

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But, you know, it's, I guess for us, Coral Springs, we were volunteer for a while when

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I first moved here.

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So tell me about that.

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We, I moved here and like I said, I started in this concert was where my fire service

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career kind of kicked off.

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And that was about a year and a half, almost two years of a volunteer up there.

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And then we moved here.

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You know, we had to, my father wanted a new start.

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So we came down here and then come to find out we moved here in 91.

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It wasn't for a few years later that I found out.

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Because like you just mentioned that you would think that town that we lived in was paid

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because of the size and all the amount of people that we had.

233
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,000
We had 1000 people in there.

234
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,880
So when I moved here, I wasn't in my mind that I was always told or known it to be a

235
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:19,480
career oriented county.

236
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,840
So I come to find out a few years later that it was volunteer.

237
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:28,760
So I joined in 95 to five years of volunteer to get in a higher 2000 to where I am today.

238
00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,520
So you volunteered for the county then got hired for the city.

239
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,360
Actually, I volunteered for Coral Springs and then they made the transition of paid

240
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,400
rescues, which is an ambulance for some, depending on where you are.

241
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,640
And then to the paid full paid fire department in the year 2000.

242
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:44,360
Beautiful.

243
00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:49,080
Well, I'm talking to Chris already have spoken to Chris and Frank have to re

244
00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,320
speak to Chris and Frank because of a technical error.

245
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,760
But you know, they have a, you know, an interesting story within that department,

246
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,080
within that city that I think a lot of people should mirror.

247
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:01,400
You're in training now.

248
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,800
So when you look back in hindsight, what was your training like and what were the

249
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:07,320
fitness standards like when you got hired?

250
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,240
I was a little dynamic.

251
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,840
We volunteer because it's volunteer slash to the career side of things.

252
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:18,440
It was training was the station I happened to be at, which is station 71 is has a training

253
00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:18,840
tower there.

254
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,680
So we on our scheduled nights, which forgive me, I can't remember off the top of my head.

255
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:23,720
I want to say it was Wednesday nights.

256
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:28,680
We would go and train and I don't want to say there was some old guys there full on

257
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,760
beards, you know, it was a definitely different atmosphere back then volunteer versus career.

258
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:38,440
You know, career has a lot more stringent rules, no facial hair, you know, for the reasons,

259
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,160
the policies in NFPA, et cetera, et cetera, stuff like that.

260
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:48,760
But there was a variety of, geez, I'm trying to think about some of the people that I'm

261
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,120
dealing with because some people were out of shape.

262
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,320
But because it's, if you want to go, maybe it's, I should ask the question to you is

263
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,720
you want to talk about volunteer side of it or you want to talk about the career or

264
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,960
is it blending it together because volunteer was different than any schmo, no offense,

265
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,120
could, you know, fill out an application, pass the test or whatnot and come on in and

266
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:08,600
volunteer.

267
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:10,280
The intent is there.

268
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:14,440
So I say schmo, I don't mean disrespect to schmo, it's just, you know, people want to

269
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:15,800
volunteer some time.

270
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,160
You can meet certain qualifications, you can get, become a volunteer.

271
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,320
Obviously, career is a little bit more stringent and being an instructor for a while and

272
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,960
seeing people develop.

273
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:30,840
You wonder it's how they, how some people do it.

274
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,520
But it's, I mean, to get back to your question, I guess I totally went off the topic there

275
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:38,440
was the training has obviously improved at the 100%.

276
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:43,640
I mean, from what it was to what it is today, the care of the individual, making sure that

277
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:48,920
you're, you know, you're healthy on all levels.

278
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,560
You know, there's a lot more investment in the individual.

279
00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:52,760
Maybe that's a little bit short of it.

280
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:53,560
Sorry for dragging it out.

281
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,160
But no, you didn't drag it out. I think that's one of the lot of things in my mind to try

282
00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,400
to process it all and think about a lot of things and what to say, what not to say without

283
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:02,120
upsetting anybody.

284
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,600
So we also got the guy serenading us from the speakers.

285
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:13,320
No, but it is, it's one of those things that is a thing like who is going to show up to

286
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:14,680
rescue your child.

287
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:19,240
Is it going to be someone who may be volunteer, maybe career, who's taken their job seriously

288
00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:24,680
and is in shape and is trained and is an environment that's enabled them to thrive?

289
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:30,040
Or like you said, is it career or volunteer who hasn't been held to a standard, who is

290
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,280
deconditioned, who has a giant beard where they can't even get a seal on the mask, you

291
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:35,080
know, whatever it is.

292
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:41,080
So, you know, it's a hard thing to navigate because in reality, the standard should be

293
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:41,960
the standard.

294
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:47,160
But it is harder to ask people that you're not paying a penny to show up to be at that

295
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:47,640
standard.

296
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:52,920
Conversely, I find it very hard to understand why we can't ask people that we pay to be

297
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,000
firefighters to hold a standard.

298
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,240
And that happens in a lot of places around the world, too.

299
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:03,400
I will say that our organization, it's for being a volunteer, we were very, very professional

300
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:04,520
for volunteer.

301
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,800
We were uniforms certain way.

302
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:14,040
You know, we would try to set a certain tone as I'll say as professionals, but, you know,

303
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:19,720
they had very high standards and a lot of people and I don't want to make it seem that

304
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:20,280
people didn't.

305
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,040
It's just a different classification of people that you would attract, I guess you could

306
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:25,320
say volunteer versus career.

307
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,200
So I don't want, again, I feel like I put some people down.

308
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:29,480
I don't want anybody to take it that way.

309
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,760
We were very, there was a lot of dedication.

310
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:37,560
You know, volunteers are, you know, you got to look at a volunteer person versus somebody

311
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:38,120
of a career.

312
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:38,920
They're doing it for nothing.

313
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:43,400
That's got to speak volumes of their spirit and, you know, their personality, what they're

314
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:44,760
willing to do for nothing.

315
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:45,560
Absolutely.

316
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,880
Yeah, I had a bunch of guys from Canada that were on here that were all volleys and they're

317
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,880
putting out content and training all the time and, you know, they have their own podcast.

318
00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:55,080
I mean, it's incredible.

319
00:17:55,080 --> 00:18:00,360
So you have that diverse spectrum from, you know, people who are probably a liability

320
00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:06,120
on a fire to some volunteers that you would choose any day over some career people that

321
00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:07,400
don't take their job seriously.

322
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:09,560
I can see that.

323
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:10,200
Yeah.

324
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:10,520
All right.

325
00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,440
Well, let's bring Tory into the picture.

326
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,680
So tell me when you became a father.

327
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,080
Well, when we were born?

328
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:17,800
No, I'm just kidding.

329
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:20,680
December 18, 2000.

330
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,000
And we're not too far from my birthday, which is New Year's Eve.

331
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,000
So the whole world celebrates me for a little while.

332
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:33,080
But it was Tory painted back a little bit.

333
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:38,360
I married my wife and she had three children before Tory came along.

334
00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:42,200
So we had three, you know, people poke fun or I even poke fun a little bit

335
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:48,120
where it's the family, just Aunt Anthony, you know, and, you know, my wife at the time

336
00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:49,160
wasn't able to get pregnant.

337
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:51,000
So I didn't care.

338
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:56,120
It wasn't, you know, I was very happy with what I had and what I have, excuse me.

339
00:18:56,120 --> 00:18:59,000
And, you know, I was going to take it.

340
00:18:59,000 --> 00:18:59,880
She's like, I can't have kids.

341
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:01,080
You don't want to marry me, the whole thing.

342
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:05,400
So, you know, lo and behold, a little while later after dating for a little while,

343
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:08,920
she wants me to come home for whatever reason.

344
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:11,000
I didn't think anything of it.

345
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,280
Then she left the little thing out and said, wanted to show me.

346
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,120
And, you know, I kind of blew it off because that was the last thing on my mind

347
00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:21,720
because of what she had a medical condition and she wasn't able to get pregnant normally.

348
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:28,840
So, lo and behold, she shows it to me and, you know, and it was a little bit of a,

349
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,480
you know, I don't want to say tiff, but there was, she was a little disappointed

350
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:32,920
that I didn't come home because it was exciting.

351
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:34,920
But again, it was the last thing on my mind.

352
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,360
So, you know, I still, maybe there's a little guilt there that I have that I kind of

353
00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:39,240
brushed it off a little bit.

354
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,320
I probably shouldn't have, but again, and lo and behold, with that, it was kind of,

355
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:48,200
we was treating it as a miracle child because, you know, she was not supposed to happen.

356
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:48,520
Yeah.

357
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,120
But she was coming in this world regardless.

358
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:51,480
Amazing.

359
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,080
So, that's where it at.

360
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,960
I mean, where we are today, obviously, we'll talk a little bit more about it,

361
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:57,000
but I don't want to steal her thunder.

362
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,320
No, well, let's wing over to Tori.

363
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:04,760
So, one thing I've only had really perspective once and as my own son talking about what it's

364
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:09,400
like to be a child in a firefighter family.

365
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,560
So, tell me about that growing up.

366
00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:16,120
Like, what was that like for you, that family dynamic that probably a lot of your friends

367
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:19,160
didn't really get to experience good and bad?

368
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,040
I let my friends in a little bit.

369
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,480
They got to sit in the truck or do whatever, you know, they loved that.

370
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:26,840
My dad was a firefighter.

371
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,320
I always went around from as young as I can remember.

372
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:31,240
My dad's a hero.

373
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:32,360
My dad saves lives.

374
00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:34,600
Like, I would just, I was boasting to everyone.

375
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:35,400
My dad's so cool.

376
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,160
He does this, he does that.

377
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:37,800
He's a hero.

378
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,880
Like, literally, that's all that I would say about my dad.

379
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:44,040
And I would cry every morning that he left because he'd be gone for so long.

380
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:45,960
Definitely a daddy's girl.

381
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:48,760
But I've always been proud.

382
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:50,760
I think that's the biggest thing.

383
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:58,040
I always held pride in knowing that not everyone can say that their family

384
00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,480
literally saves lives for a living.

385
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,120
Now, what are some of the things you remember where he wasn't able to be there?

386
00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:05,880
Because I think you talked about guilt.

387
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,880
One of the guilt elements of being a mother or a father in the fire service, I think,

388
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,320
is that Christmas is a very dynamic day.

389
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,000
It might be December 26th.

390
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:16,840
Is 25th your birthday too?

391
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:17,560
31st.

392
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:18,280
31st?

393
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,360
Okay, that's when you said about people celebrating.

394
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:22,920
So we have that, like, you know, Father's Day, all those things.

395
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,360
What are some of the things you remember where he wasn't able to be there?

396
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:30,920
And maybe you were even disappointed because I think it's important to hear

397
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,120
from the family the sacrifices that you guys make.

398
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:40,440
It was definitely hard sometimes, but I can remember as the years went on,

399
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,160
the holidays would shift that he would be there or not be there.

400
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,960
Christmas is like his favorite day ever.

401
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:46,520
Mine too.

402
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:47,000
Ever.

403
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,480
Like our whole house is lights, lights, lights, lights.

404
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,560
The whole neighborhood is like, who lives there?

405
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,400
So I feel like I can remember him.

406
00:21:55,400 --> 00:22:00,360
I feel like there was only what, one or two years that you were not there.

407
00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:01,960
You were not there on Christmas?

408
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:03,160
Well, yeah, Christmas.

409
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:04,440
That's when I can remember.

410
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:12,200
The shifts were rotating, but it's hard to actually sit here and even for me to think

411
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:12,840
about stuff.

412
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,840
I guess I think about some of the things that I missed on her level as far as maybe her

413
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,040
first steps and, you know, things like that for being at work.

414
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,320
But I can't remember that.

415
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:27,720
You know, it's unique for us come the holidays because we, my wife is Jewish,

416
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:29,800
you know, I'm Catholic, so we celebrate everything.

417
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:30,280
Yeah.

418
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:30,760
Why not?

419
00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:35,720
So there's really, you know, it's not the missal.

420
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:36,680
I mean, there is a variety.

421
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,320
So yeah, there's some days that I was there and some days I'm not.

422
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,960
I can't pinpoint one particular day.

423
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:46,120
Very simply, though, the most that I can remember when you asked that is like maybe

424
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:48,120
him not being at dinner sometimes.

425
00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:52,760
And that's where it's like a weird feeling at the table where he's always at the head

426
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:53,880
and then he's not there.

427
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:54,520
Yeah.

428
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,080
That's what I, that's the first thing that came to mind when you asked.

429
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,960
But I think we made up for a lot of that, too.

430
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:03,960
I tried to, you know, we celebrate holidays and we'll change them, you know,

431
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,280
instead of selling them the day of, we do some stuff the day before.

432
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,280
I mean, it's still, they try to make up for that.

433
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,920
I mean, that's, you know, the nature of our business when we have to work the schedules

434
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,600
and, you know, we don't get time off and, you know, we don't shut down like police or

435
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:16,920
whatnot.

436
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:21,400
We have to work, you know, other than a vacation day or a swap or shift trade or

437
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,120
whatever you want to call it, you know, that's the only way you get those days off.

438
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:29,400
We, uh, uh, Dila Kelly, they call it, you know, and it's, you get some trouble for

439
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:30,440
calling out on a holiday, but.

440
00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:34,440
Well, Tori, with, with you, same as I asked you that.

441
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,960
So firstly, school age, what about sports?

442
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:38,920
Were you playing in sports?

443
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,120
Were you artistic?

444
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:41,640
You know, what were your passions?

445
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:42,920
I was always, always very artistic.

446
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,280
It took me a long time to actually call myself an artist, but I was definitely

447
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,600
drawing and painting from a young age.

448
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,320
Only sport I really got into was lacrosse, which I actually really enjoyed in middle

449
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:54,520
school and high school.

450
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,080
But I stopped playing because girls can be, you know, a little mean.

451
00:23:59,080 --> 00:23:59,560
What?

452
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:00,200
Oh yeah.

453
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:00,700
Yeah.

454
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,080
Uh, um, but I stopped out for a reason.

455
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,200
I'm, I'm an artist at heart and I did that my entire life.

456
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,320
That's all I can remember doing.

457
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:10,520
Don't forget cheerleading.

458
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:11,720
Oh, I was a cheerleader.

459
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:12,920
I forget about that.

460
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:13,960
Have you suppressed it?

461
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,160
Is it one of those things you've lost there?

462
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,280
Yeah, I don't even.

463
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,760
But the cheerleading for her was very active because she was a flyer.

464
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:20,920
So the acrobatic cheerleading.

465
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:21,800
The acrobatic air stuff.

466
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,160
How did I forget that?

467
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,160
Cause I'm not a cheerleader at heart, but I did.

468
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:25,960
I was pretty good.

469
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,080
That's pretty good.

470
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:28,360
All of our kids did cheerleading.

471
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:32,120
So every one of my girls, 12, 13 years of cheerleading, I was a cheer dad.

472
00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:32,520
Sorry.

473
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:33,320
Take your time to go ahead.

474
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:34,280
No, you are a cheer dad.

475
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:35,720
That's what that was.

476
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:36,840
He didn't miss games.

477
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:38,520
That's something he did not miss games.

478
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,480
But don't that's athletic wise.

479
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:41,640
Yeah.

480
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,000
I mean, between that and lacrosse.

481
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,200
No, thank you for reminding me.

482
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:44,360
Yes.

483
00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:45,800
I did that for like 15 years.

484
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,080
I was a cheerleader for a long time.

485
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,480
That's a substantial amount to not mention.

486
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:50,040
Oh my gosh.

487
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,160
It just wasn't my favorite time, but I did it.

488
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,200
It was tough.

489
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:55,640
I mean, yeah, I'll keep going.

490
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:56,280
I'll let you go.

491
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:56,760
Sorry.

492
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:57,960
No, I'm okay on that.

493
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:04,680
So earlier, like middle school, early, early high school, what about career aspirations for you?

494
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:10,680
I went all over the place, but they were all in the same theme of healing.

495
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,680
That's always been my thing is giving back.

496
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:18,600
When I was younger, maybe 10, 10 years old, I had a pretty major career.

497
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:27,880
I had a pretty major surgery of the cervical spine where I had a intramodulary tumor removed,

498
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:28,840
like vaporized.

499
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,400
They had to like remove bones, put them back, put hardwires.

500
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,920
You took the vertebrae, took them and had to put them back in and put plates in there.

501
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:36,120
You had to learn how to walk again.

502
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:37,800
That's a pretty massive surgery.

503
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:38,200
Yeah.

504
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:43,400
So waking up like paralyzed and not knowing that I have to relearn how to walk,

505
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,280
have to relearn how to feed myself and do all of these things.

506
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,120
I remember my nurses the most.

507
00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:50,120
And that was from then on, I was like, you know what?

508
00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:51,080
I really want to work with kids.

509
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,280
I want to be a pediatric nurse.

510
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,720
I want to be that person that makes someone smile when they're going through a hard time

511
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:03,400
because I remember Sheila, Sheila, my favorite nurse, because she just made that time so much

512
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:04,840
better, so much easier.

513
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,920
Being away from home too, we were in Joe DiMaggio, not excuse me, Johns Hopkins in

514
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:11,640
Baltimore.

515
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:12,200
Oh, wow.

516
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:13,480
That's where the surgery was done.

517
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:14,440
So we were there for what?

518
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:15,320
Two weeks?

519
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:16,680
Two weeks you were there?

520
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,240
I remember being there the entire summer somewhere.

521
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,160
Well, it was there because then we came back home and it was Joe DiMaggio back home's

522
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:23,960
rehab center.

523
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,560
So it was, yeah.

524
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:26,360
Go ahead, sorry.

525
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:30,360
But I mentioned that because I went back to the cheerleading field in a wheelchair to

526
00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:32,760
learn the routine just to sit there and watch what was going on.

527
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,640
I went to school with a walker a couple of times.

528
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:42,760
Anyway, it led me to knowing that I have that strength and that power to give to someone else.

529
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,920
From then on, it was like, okay, well, maybe I want to be a therapist because I was in

530
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,720
therapy from sixth grade on and maybe I want to do this and that and maybe I want to be

531
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,000
a vet or maybe I want to...

532
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,000
Then it became art therapy.

533
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,360
Maybe I want to be an art therapist because I love art and I also want to help people.

534
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,400
And now I'm a yoga teacher.

535
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:08,600
I'm a Reiki practitioner and I'm an artist where I create healing, physical healing

536
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:09,160
tools.

537
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,880
So I kind of put a bunch of it together, but always, always, always my goal was to give

538
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,360
back and to do what I can for other people.

539
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,240
So question, you had the surgery at 10.

540
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:19,800
Yes.

541
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:26,440
What mentally and physically, what was that journey like from, I'm assuming you cheerleaded,

542
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,440
cheerlead, is that the past 10?

543
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:29,480
No, no, no.

544
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,480
Prior to the surgery.

545
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,000
What was that journey like to actually being able to fly again?

546
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,720
I mean, that's a pretty traumatic surgery and a very dangerous one.

547
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,400
That traumatic surgery in a very dangerous place and to get back to that, that's a hell

548
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:42,280
of a journey.

549
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:47,080
It's crazy that that trauma has been pushed aside because of the bigger trauma and I'm

550
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,800
still looking back sometimes knowing that I've not processed that at 10 years old.

551
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,440
But I do remember specific moments.

552
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,440
Like I remember the first time getting back up in the air.

553
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,120
I can see it in my head right now.

554
00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:03,720
Like getting up there was just a half is just a simple thing, but I was like, holy, I'm

555
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:04,360
not going to say it.

556
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:05,320
You can say whatever you want.

557
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,880
Just in case it comes out, you can.

558
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,240
I usually do.

559
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:11,640
That's what I was like, holy shit.

560
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,880
I really just did that.

561
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:18,120
And it was another moment of just being so proud, but definitely difficult.

562
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,680
I can remember sitting in the hospital, unable to even sit up on my own and just seeing my

563
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,480
mom crying on the floor next to the bed.

564
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,320
And like that for me, that's something that I still have to process because as a kid,

565
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,480
I'm just like, mom, I'm trying my hardest.

566
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,480
Like, why are you sad?

567
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,840
But I just know that it was all love, but definitely a physical toll.

568
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:47,000
It was terrifying to not know if I was going to walk again, if I was going to have to use a

569
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,120
walker or a wheelchair.

570
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,520
I did use a wheelchair for a long time.

571
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:51,480
I went home with it.

572
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,360
After being a cheerleader, after doing all these things, I'm like, what happened to my

573
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:56,600
legs?

574
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:57,400
What happened to my neck?

575
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:58,600
What is this?

576
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:03,400
But really, it just showed me my strength.

577
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,000
I'm constantly in my life being reminded of how strong I am from a young age.

578
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,120
So I come back to gratitude for that.

579
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:16,440
I can talk about the hard stuff for a long time, but I don't need to because I really

580
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,240
see the value in that experience.

581
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:19,960
Yeah.

582
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,760
Now, how much value do you give to gratitude?

583
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:24,840
I'll give you a preface question.

584
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,920
I put up, I like to put it in my head.

585
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:33,400
I put up, I like to post a lot of positive things, not blindly positive with a message,

586
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,280
you know, not kind of a real world positivity.

587
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:42,120
And when I posted the other day, someone said, and it was like two or three people that joined

588
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:43,000
into this little thread.

589
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,280
And I don't respond to this, but it was just interesting watching.

590
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,440
I got accused, I never heard this term before, of toxic positivity.

591
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,400
That is a thing, but I don't believe that you would do it.

592
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:53,880
Go ahead.

593
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,800
Yeah, so, you know, but again, it was like this particular thing, it wasn't at all.

594
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:04,120
But the point of that post was when you are truly in a state of gratitude, and I'm not

595
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,920
saying it's easy to get there, but when you're in a state of gratitude, I personally think

596
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:13,160
that it's impossible to be anxious and it's possible to be impossible to be depressed

597
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,680
because whatever's going on in your life, you're sitting on that beach looking out

598
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,280
of the vast ocean, seagull shits on your head, whatever happens.

599
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,680
But you are in the moment, you know?

600
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:31,560
And at that moment, I think that's where we need to return.

601
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:33,400
And we're so distracted by so many things.

602
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:38,360
So tell me about gratitude and how you found that kind of realization within yourself.

603
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:43,880
This is my whole, this is like, my world, put one word on it, it's gratitude.

604
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,760
Genuinely, that is if I'm having a panic attack or feeling like I'm going to get there

605
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,000
or I'm just overwhelmed.

606
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:57,720
For me, I could just look at a single tree and say, I'm grateful that this exists, that

607
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:04,360
like, I could go into so much on the gratitude, but seriously, it always brings me back to

608
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:05,400
the present moment.

609
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,880
And that for me is really important because through everything we've gone through, it's

610
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,240
so easy to live in the past or to worry about the future.

611
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,560
But you really only have this one moment.

612
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,160
You really, this one moment where we're sitting here at this table, this is all we have.

613
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,800
We don't even have 10 minutes ago or 10 minutes from now.

614
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:22,600
We have right now.

615
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,240
So why be anywhere but here?

616
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,800
And I think gratitude does that for me every single day.

617
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:32,840
I start my morning and I sit outside in my backyard and I look at the trees and I look

618
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:37,080
at the lake and I say, I'm grateful to be here regardless of the struggles.

619
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,760
Yes, I'm still struggling with depression, but in that moment, I get what you're saying

620
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:45,560
that there's no way I could even be crying and say, you know what, I'm really grateful

621
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,400
that I have the ability to experience this emotion.

622
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,960
Like I'm human and this is an amazing moment to cry, to release this pain.

623
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,560
You know, I find gratitude in every single space that I can.

624
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,280
It is my life force.

625
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,480
Yeah.

626
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,000
Yes, literally.

627
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,360
That's everything to me.

628
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:11,400
And I found it through all of this pain, really, because losing my best friend, I always remind

629
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,120
myself every time I get sad that, oh, he's not here.

630
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:14,680
Oh, he's not here.

631
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,600
I say, but he was, but I did get to spend that time.

632
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,280
I had every second that I did and without that, I wouldn't be here.

633
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,400
So that is always, that's it, gratitude.

634
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:31,960
And it's so powerful as well because I was talking to a friend of mine the other day,

635
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:37,960
interviewing him, and there's another friend of mine who lost his son as an infant.

636
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,200
You got pediatric cancer and passed away.

637
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,400
There's another friend of mine that I interviewed that had a similar thing.

638
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,280
I think his son was three when he passed, if I've got that right.

639
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,160
I still can see their faces.

640
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:49,960
I know their names.

641
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:55,000
I knew who they are because they lived on past the organic matter that we are.

642
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,640
I know Joaquin's name because of the story that happened after, you know, so.

643
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,280
And even with the crying, when I went through my divorce, I was a single dad.

644
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:09,160
It was, you know, I didn't experience what you did, but as we have to be careful,

645
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:10,360
we can't compare traumas.

646
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:12,840
I remember leaning into the crying.

647
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:17,080
I would deliberately turn on those songs because I knew once I was done crying,

648
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,120
you can only cry for so long.

649
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,200
I challenge anyone out there, try crying for a month.

650
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,720
It ain't gonna happen at a certain point where you're just done.

651
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,480
So yeah, even like you said, the experience of that release,

652
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:33,480
once you were done with that moment of grief, there was that kind of uptick again that you could

653
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,240
kind of take a deep breath and be like, all right, I see you.

654
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:37,960
I feel it now.

655
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,600
That's an entirely different conversation that I have a lot is how important it is to

656
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:43,080
express.

657
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,560
Like so many people are afraid of crying or afraid of being angry.

658
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:52,840
And it's so necessary as a human being to appreciate the range of emotions that we have

659
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,560
to allow that because where else is it going to go?

660
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,440
If you're happy all the time, you're really not.

661
00:33:58,440 --> 00:33:59,400
You're really not.

662
00:33:59,400 --> 00:33:59,960
Yeah.

663
00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:01,160
And there's no contrast to it.

664
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,840
I mean, it sounds, you know, the cliche thing, what there's no light without darkness,

665
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,640
but it's true as an artist, you know, that better than anyone.

666
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:08,120
Yes.

667
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:10,280
How can we see shade if we don't know what dark is?

668
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:12,440
Yep.

669
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:13,080
Yeah.

670
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:13,320
All right.

671
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:19,800
Well, Anthony, I want to get to the preparation, the prior, the, you know, what Coral Springs

672
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,760
did well, the interaction between FD and PD, because I think it's an important thing.

673
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:32,200
Before we do, pre-Valentine's Day, tell me about Joaquin.

674
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:33,560
Tell me about what an amazing man.

675
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,520
Tell me about how you fell in love through face paint.

676
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:37,160
Oh, gosh.

677
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:39,480
He fell on me first.

678
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,240
He did love you.

679
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:51,640
Actually, just, I read a poem to my friend yesterday about this, but the second that

680
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:56,200
I met this kid, it was like, there's something in you that's in me.

681
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,440
Like we just, we saw each other as reflections.

682
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:09,400
Really, like, I don't want to get too otherworldly, but literally, me and Joaquin,

683
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,840
meeting him made me question my existence on this planet.

684
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,840
And I remember getting visions of like, do people come from stars?

685
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,480
Do certain people come from this star and they're meant to meet?

686
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:25,000
And it was like, I'm 15 years old and I'm sitting here thinking about, this is my soulmate.

687
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,720
Before I even knew that I had those feelings for him, I just knew that he was my person.

688
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:31,480
I knew that this is someone that's going to be here.

689
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:33,640
This is someone that's supposed to be here.

690
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:38,360
And I never had that feeling before where it was like, this is meant to happen right now.

691
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:39,560
And it was, it was instant.

692
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,280
It was like, I see you, I know who you are.

693
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,360
You in your eyes, I can see me.

694
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:45,880
And it was, it was a very crazy experience.

695
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:47,160
Unreal.

696
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:49,320
And he knew that too.

697
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,160
It was like, we just, we didn't even have to say it.

698
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:56,200
So when we actually did get together, I remember him saying, well, I was sitting

699
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,040
trying to have the conversation, like, I don't like the word boyfriend, girlfriend.

700
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,240
Those are, that's gross to me.

701
00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:02,040
I don't want to say that.

702
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,120
And I didn't know how to say that to him without offending him.

703
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:06,760
And there was one day he's just sitting there.

704
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:07,960
He's like, you're not my girlfriend.

705
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:09,000
And I was like, thank you.

706
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:09,320
Yeah.

707
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:09,880
Yeah.

708
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,640
He's like, he's like, you're my soulmate.

709
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,200
And I said, okay, you know, like we're on the same page.

710
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,880
But really, there are really no words for it.

711
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,160
I forgot I had mentioned the poem.

712
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:27,080
So before we got together, a while before we got together, I remember writing this whole poem

713
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:35,000
about life after death and life between death and rebirth and all these things that I had never

714
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:40,760
even thought about. I'm 15 years old and I'm writing about living in stars and these crazy

715
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,000
things that I couldn't even understand what I was putting on paper.

716
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,040
So I know that there was something kind of channeled through that.

717
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,680
But moral of that story is I know we were meant to meet and there are no true words for the

718
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:57,240
connection. There is not a label that I could put on it other than soulmate if that's going to,

719
00:36:57,240 --> 00:36:58,520
what's going to connect to people.

720
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:04,280
But I feel like we're the same person split into showing each other whether it's the good

721
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:09,800
things or the dark things that we need to see. Even now I see him in me, new things that show up.

722
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:16,120
I'm like, he gifted that to me. There really are no words for the connection that we have,

723
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:21,240
still have 100%. I see him all the time and he's there.

724
00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:21,960
So.

725
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,520
Beautiful. Well, you met my wife before. That was, that's my second marriage.

726
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:33,480
I had the same thing. First date, we didn't meet at a bar, but we met at a bar, like

727
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,440
going through match.com and then decided to meet there. Kind of awkward because she said she was

728
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:44,040
just going to see a band, I assume with her friends. So I brought a friend along. She was on her own.

729
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:52,120
So the three of us went on a first date. But yeah, I mean, we lived together from day two onwards.

730
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,440
It was the same thing. So I can absolutely understand what you're talking about.

731
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:03,000
Well, I forgot to mention that we didn't get together like as a couple, I guess, quotations, couple,

732
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:10,680
until less than a year before Valentine's Day. We were best friends though for years.

733
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:16,600
And I remember him telling one of our close friends, you know, I'm just waiting till after

734
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,760
high school. I'm just waiting because I don't want anything to get in the way. And I'm like,

735
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:25,080
I don't want anything to get in the way here. You know, I know that I'm going to spend my life with

736
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,920
her, so I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait it out. And then something, one day we just kissed

737
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:34,840
and we're like, what? Like what? We were trying to hide this this whole time. Like it was really

738
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:41,880
funny. But I'm also gratitude that that just slipped up because I don't know. We don't know

739
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:47,720
what would have happened otherwise. So best friend before anything else. That's what it is.

740
00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:53,000
The footage in After Parkland of you doing the face paint on him. You guys were already friends.

741
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:58,360
Was that right before the kiss then? No, no, no. But we were already friends. There was no kissing

742
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:05,320
then. We were not together then. But I was just ooey gooey inside still. I was going to say you

743
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:10,840
could see the... Yeah. You saw it in his eyes too. I remember. And yours? Well, yes. But he was like

744
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:16,440
just somewhere else. He was somewhere else. And he was recording it. And I was like, he wanted to

745
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:23,480
capture that so badly. We had special moments like that all the time. But I'm so, so, so grateful

746
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:31,720
again that we have a lot actually captured. I have so many pictures, videos, audio messages,

747
00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:38,600
text messages. Yeah. Irreplaceable. Absolutely. Well, and you can see through the little snapshots

748
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:44,280
that we got of the outside looking in. Of the love of your group, whether it was Joaquin,

749
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:52,520
whether it was his team. I mean, there was just so much. So you guys are in high school. So tell me

750
00:39:52,520 --> 00:40:00,200
about the preparation from a responder's point of view. God forbid something like that happens.

751
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:10,280
Well, our city was, I don't say aggressive. We started doing active killer slash shooter training

752
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:15,880
years prior to this. We were kind of a... I don't know if we had an insight on it or whatnot,

753
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:21,720
but I remember distinctively doing some training on more of on our end is the trauma side of it,

754
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:28,040
patient care or PD. And we kind of do some joint stuff prior to this, but it wasn't crazy,

755
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:33,960
but we were a little bit more advanced, I would say, than some of the other departments in the

756
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:43,240
area. But I think leading up to that day, did it help? Maybe it did for us because our city

757
00:40:43,240 --> 00:40:48,440
and some of our cops were a little bit more prepared to do what was needed. And I don't want

758
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:54,280
to say the wrong thing, but you can just... If you follow the media and you pay attention to some of

759
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,920
the things that were said, it seems to be not too far off. Some people, maybe it was just a prepared

760
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:04,280
level, money, finances, whatever it was, was a reasoning for it. You could see the difference

761
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:10,200
between people being prepared and then people that weren't. Were you doing the safe training

762
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:15,160
back then? Which one was it? The safe training. That's what we did up in my department. It was

763
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:22,760
the ones where a couple of medics lock onto PD. They clear a room, you go in, supposedly drag out

764
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:28,040
or tourniquet, whatever you need to do. We have SWAT medics that work for the fire department that

765
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:36,200
work with PD. So they'll team up together. And then if they need a... Forgive me, the name is

766
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,600
skipping my mind, but we'll have a special assignment group of a couple of medics that

767
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:46,840
we'll tag on with the SWAT medic and officers to go ahead and treat as they would say, still clear

768
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:51,880
a building, if you will, treat and then maybe extract type of thing. Right. And then what about

769
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:57,560
purely from a tactical medicine point of view, tourniquets in a bleeding control,

770
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,560
had you had more of a tactical medicine training at that point? We have what they call an active

771
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:06,600
killer bag that has the tourniquets, that has the stop the bleed, that has the gauze, the packing

772
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:13,320
gauze and that kind of stuff to go ahead and treat search injuries related to that type of trauma.

773
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:18,600
Right. Okay. We all have all those now. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt, but we have that on

774
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:23,400
every unit now, after the fact, but we've had that stuff even prior to. Yeah. And that's what

775
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,240
I got. So obviously, like I said, redoing the conversation with Chris and Frank, I had the

776
00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:33,080
honor of listening to them the first time. And, you know, I know Chris from the collaborative,

777
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,920
so I know that he's been, you know, aggressive in the mental health side and the definitely

778
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:45,400
for sure. You do a great job. Yeah. With the, with the, with the law enforcement officers that we

779
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:51,160
trust with our children's lives, and actually, it's a big good place to kind of put in my little

780
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:57,160
personal story. So I had a couple of incidents at the kids school. So when my son was in elementary,

781
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:03,160
school, like I said, I was at a doctor's office appointment, went to drop him off. Right when I

782
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:09,240
got there, alarm started going off. They were told Mr. Gearing, sorry, you have to stay in here now.

783
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:14,360
They locked the doors behind me. In all the code red training that I'd done, this was the first time

784
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:19,800
they thought they had a legitimate incident. I was in the kind of copy room, I guess you call it,

785
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,240
you know, and looking at the paper guillotine thinking, all right, I could cut this off and

786
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:28,200
make a blade. And I realized at that point, how vulnerable our children are, how vulnerable our

787
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:33,080
teachers are. And the only person I believe that at that moment in that school that had communication

788
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:38,280
with anyone on the outside was the principal. So everyone else was just clueless, you know.

789
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:45,640
So that was a terrifying insight about three weeks later, I think it was for the timeline,

790
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:52,760
right? This was after 2018. After what you guys went through. We had a shoot in Ocala.

791
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:56,680
I think it was a very, very different dynamic. Personally, I think it was a cry for help.

792
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:03,160
Wasn't the same intent. I don't think it was one shot fire that I think at the ground as well.

793
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:10,040
Weapon was placed down, kid gave up, you know, thank goodness. But our town got to kind of see

794
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:20,840
a snapshot from the SRO perspective. I had an incident where my son was, as we talked about,

795
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:27,000
was going through some depression, you know, was sad. And through some horrible choices by

796
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,480
his principal in the SRO, he ended up being Baker active for three days, locked in a psych

797
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:39,080
facility because he was crying at his desk. So I saw firsthand what the wrong person in that job

798
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:43,960
can do. And as a tactical athlete myself, and someone who does martial arts and shoots and

799
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:48,360
keeps in shape, I know what that police officer needs to look like too. And I don't see that in

800
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:55,560
my son's school. So again, not blaming I wasn't there. But I think a very important tangent is,

801
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:03,240
I see that sometimes the schools get the overtime guy, the retiree, and I think it needs to be the

802
00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:07,960
complete opposite. I don't know what you have your thoughts on that. I think that the school would be

803
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:12,520
the last place that people would think something would happen. So from their perspective is maybe

804
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:18,200
that's it. Maybe the guy's riding out retirement, and it's the easy gig. You know, that very well

805
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:25,320
could have been the mindset pre-Valentine's Day. I'm fine if he's a retiree badass, but...

806
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:31,800
Yeah, it changed now because you know, you have, from what I'm seeing, you have officers now that

807
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:37,160
want to be in the schools for the right reasons. So they want to protect the kids. And, you know,

808
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:45,240
with our particular school, we have a lot of experience with that school. All my kids went

809
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:51,640
there. So I've had an opportunity to see a lot of officers come and go. And I can't speak for all of

810
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:59,000
them other than the last one. And that's my, you know, I can voice my personal opinion about what

811
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:12,840
he didn't do and tie it into training. The word I don't, the word I was going to use is, shit the bed.

812
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:18,280
When it came time for him to do what he needed to do and he didn't do it. But this is my, those are

813
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,280
my feelings and nothing else is influenced by it. And I don't want anybody to take it because of

814
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:29,000
what I do. But, you know, it's, they're sworn that they're taking an oath just like I take an oath

815
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:35,160
to protect. You know, so I believe in that oath. And I'll do everything I can to protect, even if

816
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:40,200
it is laying down my life, I'll do that, just as I expect him to do the same. So I'm not sure if I

817
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:45,160
answered your question because I get a little bit of a little off track when we talk about an in

818
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:50,120
particular person that his only job is to protect the kids in the school and have their best interests

819
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:54,600
and help them, mentor them, you know, they look up to us, whether it's police or fire to an extent. I

820
00:46:54,600 --> 00:47:00,680
mean, nowadays it's a little bit different for certain things, but those kids, you could really

821
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:06,040
set them straight and put them down the right road just by being a, you know, lay down the law, but be

822
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:11,560
a good officer and, you know, and actually care for people. And that just, you know, do the job for

823
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,880
the right reasons, I guess, I don't know if I'm going off beat, but yeah, you know, well, and I

824
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:21,720
think that's, that's just it again, not picking on that one individual solely, obviously he's a

825
00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:25,480
product of his environment and everything else, hiring practices, training standards, all these

826
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:31,000
things. But it's an important conversation we have to have. And it's not even, let's forget him, about

827
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:37,240
him for a second. It's something I hold myself to. Like I always talk about, there's a phrase, John

828
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:42,280
Spiro says, you know, would you want you rescuing you? Great question. I prefer to go even further.

829
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:47,400
How would you feel if your family died because the rescuer hadn't trained or wasn't in shape?

830
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:52,760
You know, that's the real thing. So if we're not putting the best, you know, firefighters, the best,

831
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:57,560
you know, school nurses, the psychologists in the schools that know what they're doing, then, you

832
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:02,200
know, we're, we're setting our kids up for failure. And obviously, you know, the ripple effect of that.

833
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:10,040
Yeah, when you, when you talk about your son crying and being sent away and how wrong of a

834
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:17,960
situation that is, that brings me to not only the resource officer, but everyone in administration,

835
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:23,800
there was not one person who did their job pre even pre Valentine's day with the shooter himself

836
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:31,160
was always in something at school and nobody wanted to take care of him. Nobody wanted to say,

837
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:35,960
Hey kid, like, what can we do for you? It was someone else is going to take care of you, someone.

838
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:40,680
And it was down the line, down the line, down the line. Nobody wanted to do their job. So it's

839
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:47,880
beyond that. Of course, he was one person who could have done their job, but nobody did their job. So

840
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,800
that's where it's really frustrating. That's where mental health is a huge conversation where

841
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:57,720
if there's a kid that's misbehaved, it's not because he wants to terrorize someone. It's because he is

842
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:03,080
he's having inner turmoil that needs to be addressed. Sorry. Yes. Well, I'm thinking about

843
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:09,400
they need to be addressed as a human being. And that's something I struggle with a lot is that

844
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:15,080
nobody just wanted to care for that person. And that that was the simple thing that could have

845
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:20,360
been done a long time before that. Yeah, I think one of the one of the best questions I've heard

846
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:27,160
recently, and I think this is spot on, people say, Oh, what's wrong with you? So saying what

847
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:31,160
happened to you? Or how can I help you? Or what do you need? Or anything?

848
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:35,720
I'm not like a quick one. It's what's wrong with you. That's the oral response, if you will, when

849
00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:40,760
somebody is not behaving a certain way. It's a good point. Yeah, because I mean, when I see these

850
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:47,480
events, of course, it's absolutely heartbroken, breaking, unacceptable. You know, there's no other

851
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:55,080
you know, there's no other emotion to have but anger and grief. However, the answer is to reverse

852
00:49:55,080 --> 00:50:02,280
engineer how did this toddler get to point X? You know what I mean? And if we're talking, and we'll

853
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:10,040
get into this, you know, but that's what I saw post Parkland was this polarizing gun issue.

854
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:16,200
And in the meantime, nothing's getting fixed. And you guys, you know, 14 days later, going back to

855
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:23,240
school with nothing resolved, somehow, you know, it's Yeah, so we'll talk about that. But, but one

856
00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:30,040
of the big things I talk about on here is reverse engineering solutes, issues that we have, and also

857
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:35,880
countries that are doing it better, you know, and I think that as long as we focus on the mind,

858
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:43,480
not the minutia, it's the wrong, wrong choice of words, but one singular element of a of a bigger

859
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:47,720
picture, that we're never going to find the solution. You know, I think I had done a guy

860
00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:53,320
Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman on who's an army ranger psychologist. And he talked about the impact

861
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,800
of video games. And I was absolutely handled my heart. One of the people that rolled my eyes when

862
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:02,680
I first that violent video games, that's not doing it. When you look into how the army condition the

863
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:07,240
soldiers, and you have reward system and operant conditioning, and you understand the psychology

864
00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:11,880
behind it. Absolutely, it contributes, then you add sleep deprivation, how many gamers sleep,

865
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:16,360
you know, play through the night. Now you add psychosis, now you add in psych meds,

866
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,080
you know, and so there's all these and if we're just talking about one thing,

867
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:26,200
we're not getting to the root at all. So I would love to kind of talk about that day,

868
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:31,000
as in depth or as not in depth as you want, I don't want to drag, you know, use any way you

869
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:37,080
don't want to go. But then we can obviously talk about, you know, the things that we should be

870
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:43,960
doing the conversations that should have happened, the things that the adults of the world should have

871
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:52,360
been discussing instead of, you know, what were so Valentine's Day 2018, kind of in your, you know,

872
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:57,320
your own pace, wherever you want to go lead me through that day. Well, it started off very

873
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:03,960
beautifully. I will say that bunch of gratitude for the morning. I always say that. Because I remember

874
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,320
the day before that, I was like, you know what, I think I'm going to say that Valentine's Day is my

875
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:11,640
favorite holiday. I remember because I was like, I'm all about love and it doesn't matter. It could

876
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,720
be your friend, it could be your mom, it could be whoever, but express yourself on that day.

877
00:52:15,720 --> 00:52:20,680
And I showed up to school and Joaquin's sitting there on the bench waiting with some flowers in

878
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:24,600
his hand, just waiting anxiously, like, like get out of the car, get out of the car, get out of the

879
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:29,880
car. I'm ready to give this to you. He's a hopeless romantic. Oh my gosh, more than that.

880
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:34,680
And we were late to school, we're late to class, just walking through the hallway, like

881
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:39,480
going through each other's bags, like where did we get each other? It was, you know, silly high school

882
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:50,520
stuff. I remember that clearly. And then there was a fire alarm second period. And you know, that's

883
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:55,560
okay, normal, whatever. We go outside, we go back inside. And then there's another fire alarm fourth

884
00:52:55,560 --> 00:53:02,680
period. And we're like, okay, this is weird. And I remember not, I wasn't aware of anything going on

885
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:08,120
where I was just like, okay, this is weird. We're having another drill. And then there's chatter,

886
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:12,280
there's chatter about there being a false drill. And then there's more chatter, there's more chatter.

887
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:19,480
And then we're moving further away from our normal space for the fire alarm. And I'm like,

888
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:23,320
okay, this is weird. And then there's a cop car sitting there. And then we're like, okay,

889
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:27,880
this is weird. And then there's a cop car sitting by the softball field. I'm like, okay, that's

890
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:33,560
weirder. And then there's helicopters. And I'm just, I'm pointing out the triggers that I remember,

891
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:41,160
because that's how I'm going chronological. And then before I know it, I'm out at Walmart, hearing

892
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:47,480
that it's what it is, getting calls from my family saying this is on the news, you know, this is

893
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:54,120
serious. And I just remember yelling, like, stop calling me. I can't find Joaquin. That was like,

894
00:53:54,120 --> 00:54:00,200
like, stop calling me. I'm trying to call him. Everyone, I'm fine. I'm good. Stop bothering me,

895
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:06,600
because I also didn't see the something in me saw the the weight of it and understood the

896
00:54:07,720 --> 00:54:13,000
truth behind it. But of course, there's also that huge shock blanket, where it's like,

897
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:19,640
I'm focused on this one thing. I don't even know that I'm focused on. But yeah, that was,

898
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:26,520
I evacuated, I was safe, found Joaquin's best friend. And we stuck together

899
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:33,240
to Walmart, then to Publix, because it was just too crowded. My mom picked us up.

900
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:41,880
I remember seeing going home seeing stuff on the news. For me, this is all like very surface level.

901
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:49,160
Because I can't even I still haven't processed a lot of actual feelings from that actual day.

902
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:52,840
I don't remember a lot. I'm telling you what I remember.

903
00:54:55,080 --> 00:55:01,800
Went home. And then when it became time that I couldn't just sit at home anymore, I met Joaquin's

904
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:10,200
family at a different Marriott, where families of missing children were. And for me, that was

905
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:16,120
already not great. Even watching the news. I remember seeing someone from his class come out

906
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:21,240
and was being interviewed. And I was like, Okay, if she's in his class, and she's okay,

907
00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:26,040
and he's not answering. That was like, that was immediately when it clicked, because she was also

908
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:31,400
on the news saying, and I was me, I was with him, and he was making valentines for his girlfriend.

909
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:38,760
And then she described that she saw him dead. So for me, that was like the moment,

910
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:42,600
didn't want to admit it to myself, but admitted it to myself subconsciously.

911
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:49,400
And I remember spending the next 10 hours shaking my leg and staring at the floor,

912
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,720
I can remember the pattern of the carpet in that conference room.

913
00:55:55,800 --> 00:56:00,360
Because all I was thinking about was either, am I going to have a, you know, a reunion?

914
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,560
Is this is this what I'm preparing for? Or am I preparing for the rest of my life,

915
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:09,480
dealing with this loss? Like that was already that was, I was very aware of that. And that was all

916
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:17,320
for 10 hours, we didn't get news until 2am. I got there, don't even know, 2am. And I'm just,

917
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:23,400
I remember sitting on the floor, a group of his friends had showed up, quite a few,

918
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:30,600
you know, friendly guy, lots of friends. And someone's mom had come back in. And all I remember

919
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:38,440
is her saying that he didn't make it. I remember going home, my sister and my mom laying in my bed

920
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:45,800
with me. And I don't know how I slept, but I did. And then it was a different world that I woke up to.

921
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:56,040
And then it was a different world that I woke up to. Just awful. Well, I want to take the focus to

922
00:56:56,040 --> 00:57:03,800
your dad, because the lens that I understand is your father's. Now, when the shooting happened in

923
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:12,040
Ocala, my bonus boy, my stepson's school, thought they had a shooting too. There was miscommunication.

924
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:17,320
And I had texts. There's someone shooting the school. I'm hiding in the library. Don't call me

925
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:25,080
now. He might hear us kind of thing. So I'm blessed that that was wrong. It was a false alarm.

926
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:31,320
So tell me about that day for you. Not only were you, Tory's father, seeing that happen in the

927
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:37,560
high school, but you were also on the rig that day as a responder. Well, for me that day, it was

928
00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:42,280
for me that day, it was actually a step up battalion chief that day at the time.

929
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:49,880
For me, the story is some things come and go. So I may jump around a little bit because it's

930
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:54,280
kind of hard to piecemeal some of the stuff together. Piecemeal, piecemeal, whatever it is.

931
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,840
But for us, it was our life scan day. So I had gotten my physical in the morning

932
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:05,880
and I literally had just finished, got my results black. Everything was good that I remember anyway.

933
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:11,160
And put my pants on actually, because I wear a radio strap. So I had just put the radio on

934
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:17,560
and I don't know, probably within two or three minutes, the call went out and I,

935
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,720
you know, you did that one other thing. Did I just hear what I hear or heard?

936
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,400
And it's shooting a Douglas, I'm saying in the back of my mind.

937
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:32,040
They rang out, you know, it rang out again. So and where the life scan was, it was literally took me

938
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:36,360
about three minutes to get to the school. I was the second chief that arrived on that school. So

939
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:42,760
from the life scan, I just got in the truck and I drove, you know, I have a hard time remembering.

940
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:46,680
I believe I reflected and thought about Tory for a second, but it was a snapshot.

941
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:53,480
I was instant focused, first respond to mode, because it wasn't too long after getting the

942
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:58,680
second dispatch, if you will, or repeated information that it became a little bit more

943
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:05,080
apparent that this was a real deal. And so I was just trying to keep my cool and, you know,

944
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:08,920
and drive the truck because I was by myself. So I was driving the truck and I'm just listening

945
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:13,240
to the radio traffic and making sure I get there safely. I felt like I got there literally like a

946
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:20,680
snap of a finger, that's how fast I got there. And we pretty much went right into establishing

947
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:24,040
our perimeter or whatnot. Obviously we couldn't commit to the scene when I was,

948
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:31,320
it's not our wheelhouse at that point. And it was on the corner, which became the casualty

949
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:38,200
collection point, is where everybody was starting to come out. So it, some people were evacuating,

950
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:44,840
closing down the roads. And I don't know, it's hard to say as far as how long the timeframe was,

951
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:48,680
but it felt like a couple of minutes that I stopped myself in the middle of the intersection.

952
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:54,040
And I grabbed my phone and said, holy shit, my daughter. So I started going through my phone.

953
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:58,520
By that time, the mood media was all over the place and I had people texting me from all over.

954
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:03,160
My buddies back home in New York were texting me and is everything okay? I hope you're doing okay.

955
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:06,280
You know, all the thoughts and prayers were already coming out. And I was just like,

956
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:12,200
you know, scroll down to Tracy and I texted her, I says, where's Tori? Is she okay? Or something along

957
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:16,120
those lines and put the phone back in my pocket. It was going right back to work. Like I said,

958
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:21,400
people were coming, parents were coming up to us. And I don't want to say for lack of a better word,

959
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:24,280
a little bit of a shit show because there was people coming at us from all angles.

960
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:25,960
Oh, and every scene is a shit show.

961
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:31,560
Yeah, I like that. So obviously units are coming in, you're trying to point to people and whatnot.

962
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:37,720
So I go back to my phone. She responds to me, says Tori's okay. And then followed back,

963
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:42,200
she says she can't find Joaquin. So at that point, I'm like, and at that point,

964
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:47,800
people were something to be brought out. The cops were bringing people out. So I'm putting,

965
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,560
trying to put eyes on people. I was actually assigned accountability on the scene, which

966
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:58,760
really wasn't like accountability. That was by no means a true MCI type run incident whatsoever. So

967
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:03,640
I was a little bit all over the place. I tell everybody that if at some point,

968
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:07,720
what's like the first 10 minutes into the scene or something like that, where if you see them,

969
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,240
when you watch a movie and they focus on the individual and everything else around you spins

970
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:15,800
and that kind of blurry type look, I said, that's how it felt for a little while. For a little while,

971
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:19,560
I was just going through the motions. I didn't know what the hell I was doing. Trying to gear

972
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:25,560
people in, trying to be a leader as a chief on the scene or acting chief, trying to give the crews

973
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:30,840
some confidence and people coming over. I was consoling kids that were crying and asking why.

974
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:37,240
I said, again, you dealing with people coming at us from all different angles. So again, at the same

975
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:43,560
time as people are being brought out, I'm trying to put eyes on her. That's where I think there's a

976
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:49,240
little bit of, I don't say survivor's guilt that I have where I think that there is some guilt there

977
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:55,880
where I didn't, her thought was a snapshot and it went right to mode. Maybe there was something

978
01:01:55,880 --> 01:02:03,320
subconsciously that I knew she was okay. You just can't describe what that was or why I did what I

979
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:07,080
did, but that's a little bit of survivor's guilt that I think that I have is just knowing that

980
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:11,320
I didn't have, because I had the ability. I was in a truck by myself. I could have drove my damn

981
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:18,040
truck right into that building had I known or stopped it. That's where the, I don't say the

982
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:22,680
hero act comes in where you start, here we are three years later, shoulda, woulda, coulda,

983
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:28,040
what could I have done tying the whole thing together? It's just, your mind, it just goes in

984
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,640
a lot of different directions too. So I know that may not be the best explanation. I mean, there's

985
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:36,040
there are little things that I can remember, but there's some things I just don't. People will tell

986
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:40,360
me, they said I was doing everything very well. And I just, I remember it was a cloudy, it was

987
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:47,560
cloudy for a while. Well, firstly with the, with the guilt of knowing, knowing Tory was okay.

988
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:53,400
It's something I talk about a bit, quite a bit now. I think a lot of us go in the flow state when

989
01:02:53,400 --> 01:03:00,680
it's an acute, really serious event. You have no choice, but to have that myopic focus, because at

990
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:07,000
that point, you know, it wasn't just your daughter's life that rested on the actions of you and the men

991
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:13,560
and women on scene. It was an entire high school for the kids. Yeah. So you shouldn't feel guilty.

992
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:19,800
You have that snapshot, she's okay. All right, well then I got to go back in. It's after that we have

993
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:23,720
the adrenal dump, the processing, the survivor's guilt, you know, whatever it looks like. But I

994
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:29,720
think it's, it's important if we stayed in that emotional state would be terrible firefighters,

995
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:37,240
police officers, dispatchers, you know, so that's what makes us who we are. And was the driving force

996
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:44,760
behind your colleagues looking from the outside in and seeing you do a good job, because if you took

997
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:51,880
that emotional element and brought it within you, you wouldn't be able to function as a BC or an IC.

998
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:56,360
Well, I could see that. I mean, it's, I was going to mention something, the

999
01:03:56,360 --> 01:04:04,120
crap. I lost my train of thought, maybe I will circle back to it. I just, that's what it was.

1000
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:08,600
It was the emotional side of it for me. It really didn't come out until we started doing

1001
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:13,640
this documentary or the documentary came out. I mean, I would have some moments, but even that,

1002
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:17,800
even that day, we did the big therapy session afterwards, the debriefing, if you will,

1003
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:23,480
after the incident. And, you know, some of the people that I, that I was seeing, you know,

1004
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:29,320
obviously people crying and my fellow coworkers were crying. And I didn't kind of feel,

1005
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:34,120
I don't know what I felt, but I wasn't feeling the sorrow or any of the overwhelming aspect.

1006
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:40,120
Maybe I was still jacked up at that time, but even afterwards, because I had met her at the hotel

1007
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:44,520
afterwards, once the debriefing was gone, I hold that to the, to the hotel where they were doing

1008
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:49,880
the notifications, if you will, or whatnot. And I come in and it's just, you know, that eerie silence.

1009
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:55,880
So I would, people asked me why I subjected myself to that misery because they, and to put that in

1010
01:04:55,880 --> 01:05:01,240
perspective is hearing a parent scream when they've been notified that their child is, you know,

1011
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:05,080
is no longer with us. That's something that resonates. That's what's with me forever.

1012
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:08,520
That's not, that scream is just something you, I don't know, you'll never get rid of it.

1013
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,040
You know, I can still hear it to this day and I even know the family, and I won't mention the name,

1014
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:16,280
but I know the family of the notification that's still stuck in my head. So,

1015
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:20,280
but part of me felt drawn to be there, but it wasn't to after the, like I said,

1016
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:24,600
we had the documentaries where they want to talk about it, but it's seen the documentary

1017
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:28,440
brought it fresh. I couldn't even have a discussion on stage. You would ask me certain questions and I

1018
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:32,280
would have a hard time really conveying any kind of thought, getting it out. I would just lose my

1019
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:37,400
shit. I would just start crying and, you know, have a hard time conveying anything of support.

1020
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,920
Cause people are asking, you know, they want to, they want them to, I guess, learn or try to

1021
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:45,960
understand and just try to give them some, you know, some kind of, you know, some kind of

1022
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:49,880
some perspective and maybe give a little guidance, help, whatever it was. And I just couldn't do it.

1023
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:52,840
Yeah. Well, I'm trying to make sense of something that you're not going to,

1024
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:56,360
like we were talking about before. You have to reverse engineer back to

1025
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:04,920
birth of the individual to really find the foundation of that. A friend of mine made entry

1026
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:12,360
on that scene. He was there with a, from a mental health perspective, ended up kind of being grabbed

1027
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:19,000
and asked, Hey, can you help with this? Horrific scene, you know, I don't have to paint any picture

1028
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:23,960
for anyone. I certainly don't need to get you guys to relive that, but it's such an important point.

1029
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:29,240
Some of the most haunting things that I've had as a firefighter and a medic are the voices of the

1030
01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:36,440
people left behind, which is, you know, another huge thing. I think what's, I really got from

1031
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:42,440
the documentary, cause it's all James Gearing that was nowhere near got to really see inside.

1032
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:51,880
And it was a very well made piece was these children went through these horrendous things.

1033
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:56,440
You're sitting in front of me now. And again, thank you so much for, for sitting here, but

1034
01:06:56,440 --> 01:07:04,280
you guys had to live that you had to carry that. And yet it immediately became politicized. And

1035
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:08,280
there's all these children who had their world turned upside down. All these parents that had

1036
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:13,000
their world turned upside down, these teachers and responders who had their world turned upside down

1037
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:21,400
and immediately it became a four against weapons, you know, and it nauseated me being, you know,

1038
01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:28,440
a few hours north of you guys, seeing this unfold myself in the documentary. And you have to forgive

1039
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:34,920
me. I forget the gentleman's name, but one of your classmates was asked to go to the white house six

1040
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:39,720
days later and talk to a press conference. President gave him a thumbs up, you know,

1041
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:45,640
one of the parents, a thumbs up like, yeah, we got this. I'm not left or right. I just can't stand

1042
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:53,080
a lack of compassion, whatever tie you're wearing blue, red, whatever. So kind of talk me through

1043
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:58,920
the next few days. You're grieving everyone that you lost, you know, again, from your perspective

1044
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:07,880
as well, what there should have been was space, compassion, kindness, love. What, and I'm not kind

1045
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:14,280
of trying to sway away this question, but what, what did you as children of Parkland, what did

1046
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:22,600
you actually experience the next couple of weeks after that? I think that for me, thinking back to

1047
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:29,800
that, it feels like there was absolutely no choice in what was, what the movement was, who was aware,

1048
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:36,840
even if someone disagreed or not disagreed, but if someone was four weapons, the way that it was

1049
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:43,880
portrayed and shoved down these kids throats, everyone was now okay, anti-gun. We didn't even

1050
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:50,440
have a second to make our own opinions either, or grieve for a second. We did not even have a second.

1051
01:08:50,440 --> 01:08:55,880
Now's not a time to legislate. No. Now's a time to grieve and process. I can remember

1052
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:04,440
that, I can remember saying, people would ask me about this, about guns. People were asking me,

1053
01:09:04,440 --> 01:09:08,680
okay. But I remember saying, what about mental health? I remember even from the beginning,

1054
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:13,880
I was like, my first priority is mental health because I knew from the get-go,

1055
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:21,720
this kid is not well. Okay. A well person with a gun is not going to do that. So the question is

1056
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:27,640
not guns. The question is the person and their mental health. That's the question. But I think

1057
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:32,520
that, I mean, personally, I was swayed. I mean, we were all, that's what I'm saying. We didn't have

1058
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:37,720
a choice. We were all very swayed into that because I also think that it was

1059
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:42,440
somewhat of a coping mechanism for a lot of people to just throw themselves into something.

1060
01:09:42,440 --> 01:09:47,400
Just channel up. Just say, what am I going to do? I'm going to do something. For me, I was swayed a

1061
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:53,480
lot, not in a bad way, but definitely influenced by Watkins family themselves. I mean, they took

1062
01:09:53,480 --> 01:10:00,200
their time, not took their time, more time, I would say, to grieve, more time, meaning like a couple

1063
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:06,040
days than the media. But then they were right on to creating their own organization. And I think

1064
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:12,360
they were creating their own organization about that specifically. So they're still working on,

1065
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:18,120
change the ref. Yeah, change the ref, excuse me. Yeah. So then I felt also obligated to do that.

1066
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:24,120
I didn't even realize in myself that this isn't really me. This is just what I feel like I have

1067
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:28,120
to do. And I think that's where a lot of kids were. And which is why the movement might have

1068
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:32,760
slowed down a little now is because people were just so amped up on all of this emotion. And

1069
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:38,040
we were forced to channel it that way. Could be helpful for some people. For me, I'm,

1070
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:44,520
I have a different standpoint now. So I look back and I don't regret anything that I did. But I know

1071
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:52,680
that if I were to have made my own decisions, I wouldn't have done what I did. But I do know that

1072
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:58,760
talk is good. But it needs to be about the right thing, like we were saying. I think that there

1073
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:04,840
still hasn't been the correct conversation about what happened. I do plan to when I'm ready,

1074
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:11,960
speak out about mental health and specifically without treading on anything, but specifically

1075
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:19,720
this individual and my thoughts, because I think that they're very different than a lot of people

1076
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:25,240
who went through this, because I'm able to see it from, I guess, a third point perspective,

1077
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:33,160
which is healthy and I, I don't know, difficult, but necessary in my world to find some kind of

1078
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:39,240
acceptance, some kind of not forgiveness, but that's what I'll call it to understand.

1079
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:46,520
Yeah, mental health is my conversation. So let me change that question now. So what,

1080
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:52,200
and I'll ask Anthony the same thing too. That's what happened. What should have happened in the

1081
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:58,840
ideal world, knowing everyone that was on there, whether they were adults or school kids, what

1082
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:06,920
should those first few weeks have looked like? Therapists everywhere, support groups,

1083
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:17,560
just meetings of people. Like just, we only needed each other. There were therapists,

1084
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:22,760
but I will say that there was no effort in getting the proper therapists at school.

1085
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:30,440
They were trained in three days, trauma trained in three days before coming into our school

1086
01:12:30,440 --> 01:12:37,800
and trying to tell us what we need to do. I remember being taken out of my class by a therapist

1087
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:42,840
and him saying, you know, I know a lot about you. Like that someone else that he heard something

1088
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:45,800
from someone else. And I was like, that's the first thing you're going to say to me is, you know about

1089
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:50,280
me and you know that I'm having a hard time or I don't even know what he was saying. And he's like,

1090
01:12:51,080 --> 01:12:55,800
the second thing was, well, what are your triggers? Like he had absolutely no boundaries. He had

1091
01:12:55,800 --> 01:13:03,800
absolutely no knowledge of how to handle a traumatized child, a child that was 17.

1092
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:10,200
I just, what should have happened? Let's go. I'm going back. I was,

1093
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:19,000
No, go tangent away, please. Seriously, just I can see like, in my head, I'm seeing what should have

1094
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:25,800
happened and it's circles of people, hugs and there were a lot of hugs and there was a lot of talk.

1095
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:33,800
I just, more compassion really. And there was an overflow of love from the entire world. I can't

1096
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:39,480
deny that, that people from Australia and Germany and wherever are reaching out to me, finding my

1097
01:13:39,480 --> 01:13:44,680
page specifically to tell me that they're proud of me or that they send me thoughts and prayers and

1098
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:52,440
whatnot. But I don't even know, man. It really just shouldn't have been what it was because

1099
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:58,600
it also forced a lot of people to grow up. Of course, the situation itself forced all of these

1100
01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:05,640
kids out of innocence and purity, I would say, but to then force them to actually, okay, you're going

1101
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:08,840
to be a leader now. You're not going to take care of yourself. You're going to go and take care of

1102
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:19,880
an entire community. It felt like a huge responsibility when really there just should have been a huge pause

1103
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:24,600
because there was no, I understand time doesn't wait for anyone and life goes on,

1104
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:31,000
but for an entire community to be affected and for there not to be any

1105
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:37,320
moment of silence, they're okay. There were like minutes, but there should have been a pause.

1106
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:43,240
There should have been, hey, let's regroup for a second. We all just know what happened and

1107
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:49,000
how can we help each other instead of, oh, now we have to change the entire world. First, we have

1108
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:55,240
to start small. We have to start with ourselves before we, there's no handing a cup over to someone

1109
01:14:55,240 --> 01:15:02,760
without filling it for yourself first. So it really just sort of started with one person at a time.

1110
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:08,280
Like what do you need? What can we do for you? Not what can you do with this? That comes later on.

1111
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:13,480
That is necessary. I understand everyone has their purpose afterwards in what they want to do with

1112
01:15:13,480 --> 01:15:18,680
this pain, but first you have to process the pain. You have to, because now there are people,

1113
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:23,880
a friend of mine three years later is finally saying, which I understand it's going to take

1114
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:27,560
years for a lot of people, but she's like, you know what? There's a lot of things that

1115
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:33,000
I think I need therapy for. I'm like, great, let's do it. Let's talk about it. Let's do it.

1116
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:39,400
But people thought that just talking about weapons was going to help them and

1117
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:47,080
it's actually talking about your feelings that are going to help you. So yeah, more love.

1118
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:49,960
That's the moral of the story.

1119
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:54,920
Well, and thank you for that perspective because that's not what happened and it's not blaming,

1120
01:15:54,920 --> 01:16:02,600
especially, your jurisdiction, but I saw an opportunity, a political opportunity that was

1121
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:07,160
swooped upon the same way as this last 12 months. We've seen that multiple times, whether it's race,

1122
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:12,520
law enforcement, COVID, and in the meantime, people are dying on the streets. People are dying

1123
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:16,600
of not only COVID, but obesity and everything else. And we talked about it before we were

1124
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:21,560
recording. The human and compassionate element is lost by the polarization of some of these

1125
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:28,520
narratives. So Anthony, from your perspective, so you were not only a father, you responded that day.

1126
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:34,600
What should those following few weeks look like, not only for Tory, but for the responders as well?

1127
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:41,320
Well, the responders, we'll start with the responders. We were, we were, were and are

1128
01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:46,440
pretty good about mental health. We were definitely staying on top of it

1129
01:16:46,440 --> 01:16:54,200
mental health. We were definitely staying on top of it. 2018 was actually a tough year for me,

1130
01:16:54,200 --> 01:17:01,080
actually for our department, but to get back to it as we were prepared, we had clinicians

1131
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:05,720
that came out in full force afterwards, but we were, we were pretty good about that. Chief

1132
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:10,200
Padmik at the time was, you know, always worried, I say always, definitely worried about

1133
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:18,760
mental health for the members. So that was, while it wasn't an issue to implement that for us,

1134
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:23,720
it was there, you know, it gets to a point where there was so much of it that people didn't want to

1135
01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:29,480
have that conversation. So it's, they had that we made it, they had to sit in the room. They didn't

1136
01:17:29,480 --> 01:17:34,680
have to have a conversation, but they had to be in the room and take part in the event. But,

1137
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:39,240
but there was, that was just too much. I'm saying that's how well prepared that we were for it. We

1138
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:44,040
had a plenty, at least for that we smothered the people and they're still there and they're great

1139
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:49,400
people. And, you know, my kind hats off to Bader and the chief at the time for getting us where we

1140
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:52,760
are with that. They're still doing great, but as far as the community goes, it's,

1141
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:58,520
it was definitely a hurry up and something needs to be done in which push people in

1142
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:01,880
into different groups, I think. It was already divided.

1143
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:04,760
It was already divided. Yeah.

1144
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:10,280
You know, you split people for gun violence or anti-gun violence and gun reform, and then

1145
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:15,720
there's a mourning and then there's march for our lives and all these political, it seemed like the

1146
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:21,960
political aspect of the event overran everything, if you can kind of think of it that way. I mean,

1147
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:25,720
trying to take a look at it, cause I'm not, I'm not a political person by any means.

1148
01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:30,120
I'm not a gun person, but again, I understand both sides of it, that there are some kinds of

1149
01:18:30,120 --> 01:18:33,960
changes that need to be, but the overall event, it didn't have to happen so quickly.

1150
01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:41,400
You know, maybe a tragic event for us is when you have something like that, it's a different

1151
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:45,800
perspective for the community to say, well, what do we do? But there were other events that took

1152
01:18:45,800 --> 01:18:49,640
place that we could have learned from, but to my knowledge, and I can't back this up a hundred

1153
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:54,200
percent, but to my knowledge that people didn't ask, this is what happened to us. What could we

1154
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:59,320
do to help the people, you know? And even to this day, there's not even a memorial. I mean, there is

1155
01:18:59,320 --> 01:19:03,240
a memorial, but thanks to Tori and Ms. Ryova and one of the teachers, they created the garden.

1156
01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:03,880
It's not official.

1157
01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:09,640
Not official, but the garden on the corner of the school is the only place that on Valentine's Day,

1158
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:12,120
that people can go and pay their respects.

1159
01:19:12,120 --> 01:19:16,680
And that was where you, when they were doing the walkout, initially you didn't go, but that was

1160
01:19:16,680 --> 01:19:20,920
the garden they walked to, where you did show up in the documentary?

1161
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:25,000
I don't know if it was-

1162
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:25,960
They were doing the walkout.

1163
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:28,920
No, the walkout went to Pine Trails at the time.

1164
01:19:28,920 --> 01:19:33,240
The garden was created Christmas Eve of 2018.

1165
01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:34,520
Okay. So it probably wasn't the same one.

1166
01:19:34,520 --> 01:19:38,600
Just a teacher. Well, just a teacher. One of the teachers-

1167
01:19:39,240 --> 01:19:40,120
Just a teacher.

1168
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:49,880
No, sorry. Sorry. She's a good friend of mine. She's my neighbor. She was in the second classroom

1169
01:19:49,880 --> 01:19:56,360
that was attacked. And so she has that experience and I have mine and we connected very deeply

1170
01:19:56,360 --> 01:20:01,640
after that. But she just called me Christmas Eve, I'm sitting with the family and she's like,

1171
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:07,240
there's nothing there. There's nothing that we have. Let's just go put like fake flowers down.

1172
01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:11,960
And she's poking them into the ground. And I'm like, what the hell? Why don't we just

1173
01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:15,560
dig up the ground and like plant something? Let's actually put it here so it can grow.

1174
01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:20,840
Let's invite everyone out and do it. We didn't have any permission whatsoever. I just said,

1175
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:22,440
fuck it. I'm going to do it.

1176
01:20:22,440 --> 01:20:23,080
Permission's overrated.

1177
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:26,840
To show you before she gets into it, but to show you the mindset of the community was the principal

1178
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:28,840
was giving him a hard time. But who's going to take care of it?

1179
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:30,280
He literally said it would be an eyesore. He told me it would be an eyesore.

1180
01:20:30,280 --> 01:20:35,320
Just to go to show you that the mindset, and this is, I mean, it's a few months later, but still,

1181
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:42,680
I was dumbfounded by some of the responses of whatnot. And still to this day, there's still

1182
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:47,160
nothing. I don't say nothing. I keep saying nothing, but there's, if you go to Sandy Hook

1183
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:51,240
and they have certain areas that are dedicated, and we still don't have that yet. We still got

1184
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:54,760
to look at the damn building that's still up because they won't take it down yet because it's

1185
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:57,800
a freaking crime scene and they need it for evidence. Even now?

1186
01:20:57,800 --> 01:21:02,120
It's still up. It's needed for evidence. We'll get into that in a second.

1187
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:05,960
But sorry, finish up with projects. I totally derailed that.

1188
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:08,920
Well, just go and get to that. So I want to hear about the garden. But again,

1189
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:15,480
the opposition to that, we talked about finding yourself jumping into a cause and that cause ends

1190
01:21:15,480 --> 01:21:22,040
up being politicized. Actually, I just finished interviewing a friend yesterday. He has a garden

1191
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:26,600
that looks like this, this jungle behind us, beautiful piping music. I don't know where the

1192
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:31,560
speakers were. It's like being on a resort somewhere, but that's his happy place. So why not

1193
01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:35,640
give the kids the garden, the memorial to be that focus rather than-

1194
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:39,400
It doesn't have to be at the school. I mean, it's there. It's tough to find a nice and be at

1195
01:21:39,400 --> 01:21:41,960
peace and pay respects. And then you look up and you see the building there.

1196
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:45,560
It's literally right in front of it. But that's the only place that I have.

1197
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:50,200
Because we've got there, we go there, we maintain it. I found some healing there myself going,

1198
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:53,960
project grow love and try to spread and do all that good stuff. So I'm sealing your thunder.

1199
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:57,000
Sorry, babe. Sorry, your dad was rudely interrupted.

1200
01:21:57,000 --> 01:22:01,400
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. For the folks listening, I apologize. I get a little excited about it too.

1201
01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:04,120
I'm sorry. Yeah, it was actually something that

1202
01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:09,800
really motivated me. That was something that helped me a lot knowing that I was inviting

1203
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:13,720
the community out to do it also. It was like an uproar of support at that point. Like, oh,

1204
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:17,400
finally we have somewhere to go and we have something to actually do to take part in it.

1205
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:19,480
And was it therapeutic doing that too?

1206
01:22:19,480 --> 01:22:23,640
Yeah, digging in the dirt and there's so many symbols to it as well.

1207
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:31,960
Life after death or life itself and growth and all the colors and beauty of life and all these things.

1208
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:38,520
But I saw the impact that it had on every kid that showed up there. They felt so,

1209
01:22:38,520 --> 01:22:44,440
it was a release. It was almost like an accomplishment. They felt like they were

1210
01:22:44,440 --> 01:22:50,680
giving back. It was purposeful while also creating something with an even bigger purpose.

1211
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:56,840
Like there were so many little purposes in the big one. We called it project grow love

1212
01:22:56,840 --> 01:23:02,840
because literally that's what we're doing there. I wanted to wrap the whole school in it. And

1213
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:08,120
that's where I was told that's going to be an eyesore. That's actually not going to be good.

1214
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:13,720
That's not going to be great. And I was like, I think we just need more love. Like let's grow it.

1215
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:18,600
Let's do it. I still kind of want to go little by little and extend it as I go.

1216
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:23,160
But do one at a time. They're not going to notice. One day they're going to be completely surrounded.

1217
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:24,360
Yeah. What can they do?

1218
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:29,480
You need more of that to go back to the original question is you need, the community needed more

1219
01:23:30,360 --> 01:23:34,040
stuff like that before it went to the route that it did.

1220
01:23:34,040 --> 01:23:38,280
But people were very happy with what we did. So there's that.

1221
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:43,400
Exactly. The people were happy, but sadly, bureaucracy kind of got in the way.

1222
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:48,120
Yeah. The media didn't help. They pushed people into certain things. I mean, I know

1223
01:23:50,440 --> 01:23:55,720
that's a whole conversation. You can have an hour conversation on that particular topic, but it's

1224
01:23:56,520 --> 01:24:01,480
maybe part of it. And I don't want to, not this credit that I was going to mention,

1225
01:24:01,480 --> 01:24:09,240
the magnitude of the incident, 34 people total, 17 and 17. I never want to forget the injured

1226
01:24:09,240 --> 01:24:13,320
because that's another dynamic that has to be not, shouldn't be forgotten.

1227
01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:18,920
Excuse me. And some of those people are a little upset, but what I'm worried about is that the

1228
01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:23,800
magnitude of the tragic event was so massive that I don't think people, they needed, like maybe you

1229
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:29,480
said it before, is for something to latch onto to help themselves get through the process or to heal

1230
01:24:29,480 --> 01:24:36,360
or to deal with the situation. Maybe that was a factor too. I'm not really sure, but there was a

1231
01:24:36,360 --> 01:24:40,840
couple of failures, I think. And I think just going back to what you said before, just some love and

1232
01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:45,400
compassion and just taking everybody's time to console and deal with what just happened.

1233
01:24:46,360 --> 01:24:51,880
Well, I think an important thing, and when my friend was telling me about going into the scene,

1234
01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:57,720
where law enforcement and fire are different and law enforcement are going into

1235
01:24:57,720 --> 01:25:03,080
an incident knowing there's a possibility that they might take a life and or lose a life.

1236
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:11,960
Usually fire EMS, we get there and some catastrophes happen and it's nothing to do with us. We didn't

1237
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:19,480
shoot the person, you know what I mean? It's very different. In military, in war, they go into it

1238
01:25:19,480 --> 01:25:25,640
as traumatic as it is in understanding I might kill or be killed. A high school

1239
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:32,440
a high school where you're thinking about how much math sucks or whatever you're thinking about.

1240
01:25:32,440 --> 01:25:39,320
Yeah. And then you're in that event. If we can create these memorials and all these programs for

1241
01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:45,080
our veterans, and rightly so, especially our combat veterans, we sure as hell need to focus on the

1242
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:50,920
children that survive these incidents. So absolutely, if red tape and bureaucracy gets in the way,

1243
01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:57,880
you know, we're totally wrong in that. You know, what some of these people have been through,

1244
01:25:57,880 --> 01:26:01,160
the children, the teachers, you know, the custodians, everyone that was there,

1245
01:26:02,360 --> 01:26:07,160
you know, we need to bend over backwards to give outlets. And if a healing garden,

1246
01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:12,760
and I'll give you a funny story, Oregon State Penitentiary, I had the Governor on,

1247
01:26:13,560 --> 01:26:19,240
they allowed them to start like a Zen garden. And they found like, you know,

1248
01:26:19,240 --> 01:26:23,800
the attrition, not attrition, but you know, the violent crime in the prison has gone down. Some

1249
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:28,280
of the reoffending levels have gone down purely because they allowed these men and women are

1250
01:26:28,280 --> 01:26:34,920
focused to simply garden. So to put a roadblock up, you know, and even if they don't like the

1251
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:39,720
original plan, then say, well, look, hey, we can't go all the way around the school, but we're going

1252
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:44,360
to give you this place. And, you know, here's a little extra acreage that the city's given us,

1253
01:26:44,360 --> 01:26:49,720
you can kind of extend into. So yeah, I think that's the problem again, when you lose that

1254
01:26:49,720 --> 01:26:57,560
compassion, that human side is, you know, the emotional toll that it took you guys, you know,

1255
01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:02,840
took from you guys that has to be applied positively. And I think a lot of that politics

1256
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:08,600
that we talk about just compounds the trauma again, instead of healing, you completely negate the healing.

1257
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:13,960
No, but some of it might be a choice that they made to, I mean, I don't want to discredit that.

1258
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:20,040
Some people that was their defining moment that was going to maybe steer them down their career

1259
01:27:20,040 --> 01:27:25,080
path or something that they, maybe they weren't ready to go there. And it kind of, maybe you

1260
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:28,840
mentioned earlier, as far as being forced into a spot that maybe you're going to go down there,

1261
01:27:28,840 --> 01:27:32,600
down the road. And now it's here now, and now you're going to go ahead and maybe the political

1262
01:27:32,600 --> 01:27:36,440
route is where I'm, I guess where I'm going. I hate to keep bringing that up into it because it's

1263
01:27:36,440 --> 01:27:41,960
it seems to be the stem of a lot of, I don't want to say failures, but a lot of certain situations.

1264
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:45,560
You're preaching to the choir though. And that's something I talk about. Like I'm not demonizing

1265
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:50,600
all, I hate the word all. It's not all politicians. No, it's not. You know, we see our profession,

1266
01:27:50,600 --> 01:27:55,480
we see a lot of that. I mean, you know, the parallels between what Tori went through at

1267
01:27:55,480 --> 01:28:01,160
school and what a lot of our men and women go through on the job are very similar. The lack

1268
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:06,200
of support sometimes are very similar. The politics that gets in the way and something I talk about a

1269
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:11,640
lot of the work week that our first responders are working themselves to death, you know, is a lot of

1270
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:20,360
politics too. You touched on the media and even though technically right now I am the media,

1271
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:26,600
because we're doing an interview and it's going to go, you know, public. One of the biggest lacks

1272
01:28:26,600 --> 01:28:32,440
of compassion that I've seen a lot of times is there'll be an event and immediately someone's

1273
01:28:32,440 --> 01:28:37,880
sticking a microphone into the mother, hey, your son just got shot. How do you feel? And it just

1274
01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:44,200
is jaw dropping because you are more concerned about your career path and what that person's

1275
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:48,680
just been through. Who's going to get the better story? Who's going to be, you know, have the better

1276
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:54,920
footage or whatnot? Zero compassion. I was literally going to do the same thing. Oh my God.

1277
01:28:54,920 --> 01:28:59,800
Zero compassion for the mother that's grieving and not to get off topic or anything, but in our

1278
01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:05,080
profession you have, and I convey this to people when I can have the conversation,

1279
01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:12,040
good how good and healthy it is to discuss certain topics and especially somebody in your field that

1280
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:16,040
she touched on a little bit earlier with one of the girls who wants to start having some therapy

1281
01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:20,600
and was in the school and having that relationship with somebody that was in the same instant,

1282
01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:27,720
a little bit more of an understanding than your regular therapist and crap, I totally had to.

1283
01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:35,640
Yeah, where were you going? It was the media originally. No, it was the, oh, it was how,

1284
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:39,800
you know, obviously we're compassionate, we can pull up and it probably has nothing to do with the

1285
01:29:39,800 --> 01:29:44,920
conversation because it was going down how they're too worried about the story. They don't care about

1286
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:53,000
compassion where we see a lot of trauma. So it's easier for us to pass along that compassion and I

1287
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:56,920
convey that to people. That's where I was going is that we witnessed it on a regular basis, so it's

1288
01:29:56,920 --> 01:30:00,920
easier for us to blow crap off and say, hey, you know what, that's not really important. Focus on

1289
01:30:00,920 --> 01:30:05,080
some of the positive things in life because we see people at their worst. Yes. And so it's a

1290
01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:08,920
different perspective as opposed to the person with the microphone. He just, like we said before,

1291
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:14,200
I'm repeating myself, is the only cares about the story because as you said, it's the career path

1292
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:19,080
that they're worried about. They don't care. Zero feelings that I guess you could say at that point.

1293
01:30:19,080 --> 01:30:24,680
Yeah. So from your perspective, Tori, what that element did you, because I saw, you know,

1294
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:28,920
beginning we got a snapshot of David Hogg who kind of became the poster child for,

1295
01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:35,400
you know, the media, if it's a lack of a better word, without again loading the question,

1296
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:40,360
those first few weeks, what was that like the media element for you? I mean, you saw also a

1297
01:30:40,360 --> 01:30:48,040
snapshot in the documentary of the sidewalk full of cameras. Like there was not even room to walk

1298
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:53,720
and that was the first day back. That was the first day back and every sidewalk is lined up

1299
01:30:53,720 --> 01:30:58,840
with hundreds, hundreds of people just holding microphones out, waiting for someone, for someone,

1300
01:30:58,840 --> 01:31:06,280
anything. Come here, come here, kid, get over here, whatever. It was... Who were they going to get to

1301
01:31:06,280 --> 01:31:14,680
talk to? Atrocious. I don't use that word. Atrocious. I remember directing some anger.

1302
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:20,120
Obviously I didn't know where to put it at the time, but it was, it had come out towards them

1303
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:28,600
towards them in a lot of ways because of the insensitivity and just disrespect. I mean,

1304
01:31:29,320 --> 01:31:36,040
for us, one, to be going back to school two weeks later, 14 days later. And what was the decision

1305
01:31:36,040 --> 01:31:42,520
just to interject? What, why, why so soon? It seemed like soon to me who someone, you know,

1306
01:31:42,520 --> 01:31:47,400
not someone, an entire school. We were all confused. We were all confused. But we just took 12 months

1307
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:53,000
off school. Yeah. More virtual because of a virus. And yet you have a mass shoot in the, as you

1308
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:58,360
mentioned, killed 17, injured 17, or wounded 17, excuse me. And two weeks later you're going back

1309
01:31:58,360 --> 01:32:03,880
to school. Do you know the root of that? I have no idea. A lot of my anger was also

1310
01:32:04,600 --> 01:32:11,480
mainly directed at administration, which I think honestly, side note, might've been my healthiest

1311
01:32:11,480 --> 01:32:18,680
decision at that time. But I didn't understand a lot of the decisions that they made, but I just

1312
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:24,840
did what was good for me. The only reason that I went back to school that day was to convince one

1313
01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:29,480
of my buddies to go. I said, you could do it. You know, if I can do it, let's go. Like, let's do it.

1314
01:32:29,480 --> 01:32:37,080
I really was not going to, and it was kind of a team effort. We really acted as backbones for each

1315
01:32:37,080 --> 01:32:44,360
other. But yeah, the media was the worst part. Really. Just watching the kids from, I mean,

1316
01:32:44,360 --> 01:32:49,960
not much, might give them a little two cents, sorry. For me, just sitting back looking at all that,

1317
01:32:50,600 --> 01:32:58,520
I mean, it's, I don't say intimidating, but I... There was no privacy to even... Yeah. There was

1318
01:32:58,520 --> 01:33:04,680
no time to grieve. One, there was no privacy anywhere to just have a moment. If I wanted to cry,

1319
01:33:04,680 --> 01:33:10,120
it was like, okay, every lens is going to be on me now. Or... Because that'd be a great shot for a 6

1320
01:33:10,120 --> 01:33:17,880
PM. Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. So for me, that was just uncomfortable. And it's something

1321
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:25,000
that I feel like I can't even really process to this day, how people can lack that level of

1322
01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:30,760
compassion. Like if you're human, how do you... I understand that's your job, but there's a way to

1323
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:39,960
go about it. And I remember meeting Jake and Emily, who directed the movie, the documentary.

1324
01:33:41,400 --> 01:33:45,480
This is just tying into what you're talking about. What is it?

1325
01:33:47,800 --> 01:33:52,040
Let me see. How are you talking about the moment? Literally, that was...

1326
01:33:52,040 --> 01:33:54,040
Anthony just showed me a picture of... Yeah.

1327
01:33:54,040 --> 01:33:59,320
NBC is this particular one, of you guys grieving and it makes a great show. And how many likes

1328
01:33:59,320 --> 01:34:05,400
did it get? I don't even know. Let me look at it. I don't have my glasses. 1854 at the time.

1329
01:34:05,400 --> 01:34:08,840
Oh, shit. It was worth it then. That's a lot of likes. Apparently. But I just...

1330
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:10,760
Well, I just saw it. I tied it. I don't want to...

1331
01:34:10,760 --> 01:34:14,760
But no, it's exactly that. It's so pertinent. Because sadly, and I will get back to you,

1332
01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:19,800
Tor, but what irks me is there are some great news agencies out there, but there are a lot

1333
01:34:20,440 --> 01:34:27,000
that are selling advertising space. And that is the focus. And so when you have something like this

1334
01:34:27,000 --> 01:34:32,280
and ratings is more important than feelings, shame on you.

1335
01:34:32,280 --> 01:34:36,360
That was a lot of what was happening. But I was about to put a little bit of a positive spin on

1336
01:34:36,360 --> 01:34:42,680
it because I remember meeting the people who directed the documentary that I started. And I

1337
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:49,000
hate... That's not what I wanted to say, but I took part in. And how much of a different approach

1338
01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:51,480
that they had. They were genuine journalists who...

1339
01:34:51,480 --> 01:34:53,240
Very nice people. Very nice.

1340
01:34:53,240 --> 01:34:58,200
Who had heart to heart with us that actually sat down and said, whatever you're comfortable with,

1341
01:34:58,200 --> 01:35:05,320
let's do. They came into our homes at the hardest points, at the milestones,

1342
01:35:05,320 --> 01:35:11,160
at literally the hardest days. And for some reason, I still was willing to do it. But it

1343
01:35:11,160 --> 01:35:18,040
was definitely their energy. A lot different than just newscasters who were in your face.

1344
01:35:18,040 --> 01:35:21,480
Yeah. I think that there are people who know how to do their job and there are people who are just

1345
01:35:21,880 --> 01:35:26,360
wanting to get paid maybe. I don't know. Very insensitive though.

1346
01:35:26,360 --> 01:35:28,360
It just goes back to who's got the better picture.

1347
01:35:28,360 --> 01:35:29,080
Yeah.

1348
01:35:29,080 --> 01:35:30,680
You know, the better story.

1349
01:35:30,680 --> 01:35:38,680
But I think that it just... The invasion, that's what I can call it. It was quite literally an

1350
01:35:38,680 --> 01:35:44,280
invasion on our life. And that's something that I still struggle with now is how

1351
01:35:44,280 --> 01:35:53,640
people feel like they have a right to give me their two cents on the most personal parts of my

1352
01:35:53,640 --> 01:35:59,560
existence because of how broadcasted my life was at that point. Because Joaquin's face was everywhere

1353
01:35:59,560 --> 01:36:02,840
and everyone wanted to know about him. And then it's like, okay, well, where is his family? And

1354
01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:09,880
how much pain is his girlfriend in? And all of these things. And people wanted so much to know.

1355
01:36:09,880 --> 01:36:15,880
And people still feel the right to come up to me. There was a woman who came up to me asking,

1356
01:36:16,440 --> 01:36:21,400
well, what do you think he's going to feel when you move on? Or whatever, like crazy questions

1357
01:36:21,400 --> 01:36:26,120
that I'm like, lady, I don't even know you. Who are you? But because of the way that my life was

1358
01:36:26,120 --> 01:36:36,120
shown to the world, people feel that they have special permission to dig deeper. And I think

1359
01:36:36,120 --> 01:36:43,720
that's why I struggle doing things like this. But I do trust you and I appreciate your authenticity.

1360
01:36:43,720 --> 01:36:48,840
I can feel it. But there are people who scare me because they're going to ask me awful things that

1361
01:36:49,640 --> 01:36:55,800
they just want to see me cry or they want the worst things. Or they just want to know information

1362
01:36:55,800 --> 01:37:00,040
that should just be mine. Like there's a lot of things that are out there that I would never want

1363
01:37:00,040 --> 01:37:06,440
out there. And so it's really difficult. It was definitely an invasion of space, of privacy,

1364
01:37:07,960 --> 01:37:13,480
complete disrespect. And I can just make the best of it now. I mean, I have created my own

1365
01:37:13,480 --> 01:37:21,880
platform with that and have turned a positive spin on it as well with my art. And I post a lot of

1366
01:37:21,880 --> 01:37:30,840
positive messages and people are very inspired by my ability to shape shift the situation and to say,

1367
01:37:30,840 --> 01:37:35,800
you know, I can choose to sit in a corner all day. I very well could be doing that right now.

1368
01:37:36,120 --> 01:37:41,320
But all we have is this moment. So what am I going to really do with it? And I definitely,

1369
01:37:42,200 --> 01:37:47,960
everything happens for a reason. And I don't regret what happened. As far as media, I do wish

1370
01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:53,880
that it went on differently, but I was able to really, really make the best of it. So there's

1371
01:37:53,880 --> 01:37:54,440
that.

1372
01:37:55,320 --> 01:38:03,160
Yeah. Well, I want to close with one more kind of thought process. Actually, two things. First,

1373
01:38:03,160 --> 01:38:09,640
we'll talk about, you know, the kind of journey mentally, you know, what did work for you. I mean,

1374
01:38:09,640 --> 01:38:14,600
I'm gonna say work, not like it's fixed now, but you know, some things that were healing. But before

1375
01:38:14,600 --> 01:38:20,760
we do that, from both of you, and I'll ask you one at a time, what should we do to make the school

1376
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:26,120
safer? So with the arguments that were thrown around, like I said, for me, there are so many

1377
01:38:26,120 --> 01:38:30,200
layers through my eyes. If someone asked me this question, it would be the mental health element,

1378
01:38:30,200 --> 01:38:37,240
it would be parenting, it would be, it amazes me that people will go home and relax after a work

1379
01:38:37,240 --> 01:38:42,760
day and watch Saw. A bunch of people being mutilated and tortured and finally, you know,

1380
01:38:42,760 --> 01:38:47,160
some steam and watch 12 people die. I feel better now. So that, you know, we have to question

1381
01:38:47,160 --> 01:38:52,280
ourselves, why do we like that, you know, grand theft and all these things. But there's also,

1382
01:38:52,280 --> 01:38:57,400
you know, with the gun thing, I'm British, I grew up where I grew up on a farm, I was allowed to

1383
01:38:57,400 --> 01:39:03,240
have shotguns. And that was about it. So I had guns, not anti gun. But then I was amazed when I

1384
01:39:03,240 --> 01:39:08,520
went to Gander Mountain in the UK in the US, and watched, you know, like five year olds playing

1385
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:15,320
with semi automatic weapons and 50 cows up on the wall. There's a there's a middle ground where the

1386
01:39:15,320 --> 01:39:21,160
average person, you know, maybe shouldn't be able to get the entire spectrum of military grade

1387
01:39:21,160 --> 01:39:27,160
weapons. So it's not black or white, there's a there's a there's a happy medium to me personally.

1388
01:39:28,600 --> 01:39:33,400
And then for me, again, with the SRO, the right person at all, I think that's a great deterrent,

1389
01:39:33,400 --> 01:39:39,000
I think a lot of, you know, school murderers would be deterred by the right person in the

1390
01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:43,240
right uniform at the right door. So starting with you, Tori,

1391
01:39:45,800 --> 01:39:53,320
politics aside, if if you could, King for Queen for a day, excuse me, what should we do to make

1392
01:39:53,320 --> 01:39:54,680
our schools safer?

1393
01:39:56,280 --> 01:40:01,720
I think it does start with mental health. I think it needs to be taken more seriously. And I think

1394
01:40:01,720 --> 01:40:09,720
it needs to be taken more seriously in school. That someone who's behaving, let's say, quote,

1395
01:40:09,720 --> 01:40:15,560
unquote, wrongly, I don't know what else to call it behaving, misbehaving, all right, misbehaving.

1396
01:40:17,480 --> 01:40:26,440
I think that there should be people, teachers who can see that as an opportunity to help someone

1397
01:40:26,440 --> 01:40:32,840
rather than to push them further down. I think that that's huge in school. I always saw that as

1398
01:40:32,840 --> 01:40:42,520
like, the loud kid or or the goofball is made to feel worse and is to be punished rather than,

1399
01:40:42,520 --> 01:40:47,080
well, what's making you act this way? Why do you feel this way? Why do you feel the need to

1400
01:40:48,120 --> 01:40:52,760
be the loudest in the room? Are you neglected at home? Like, there are so many things that go into

1401
01:40:52,760 --> 01:40:58,200
that that's that are very quickly overlooked. I think that it really starts with that.

1402
01:40:59,480 --> 01:41:07,080
Because even at school, there were at my school, there were programs for what like the promise

1403
01:41:07,080 --> 01:41:14,200
program and different things that kids were thrown into. But there was no real support.

1404
01:41:14,840 --> 01:41:20,920
It's just I'm going to put you in this group, I'm going to label you. And now you're in a box,

1405
01:41:20,920 --> 01:41:27,640
and you can't do anything else. And you can't be anything else. And I think just mental health is

1406
01:41:27,640 --> 01:41:35,560
a huge conversation that needs to keep going. But it does start with the adults that are working at

1407
01:41:35,560 --> 01:41:41,240
school. There are so many things that you can do simply to look out for your students to look out

1408
01:41:41,240 --> 01:41:47,960
for your colleagues to just be kind. Really, that's, that's my main thing. I don't I don't think

1409
01:41:47,960 --> 01:41:56,760
about yes, security is a thing. That's not the top of my brain. I do think that when I think about

1410
01:41:56,760 --> 01:42:05,640
specific things that went wrong, there were security guards who dismissed the kid himself,

1411
01:42:05,640 --> 01:42:08,840
said I'm going to go the other way. I'm going to go get someone else. I'm not going to approach

1412
01:42:08,840 --> 01:42:13,160
him myself. I'm going to let even though I know he's holding a rifle bag, and I know he's walking

1413
01:42:13,160 --> 01:42:18,280
into that building, I'm going to go the other way. Like that's something like you need to be people

1414
01:42:18,520 --> 01:42:24,280
who are prepared who have the mindset that they need to have, who have the strength needed.

1415
01:42:27,240 --> 01:42:36,760
There are so many things that were simply solvable. But it starts with mindset. So

1416
01:42:36,760 --> 01:42:41,880
mental health really is the top. I don't think about like fences or doors or I don't think about

1417
01:42:41,880 --> 01:42:49,400
that stuff because I think it starts way before that. That's my spiel. Yeah. No, I agree with you

1418
01:42:49,400 --> 01:42:55,640
completely. It's it's the conversation of the militarization of police. Well, right now,

1419
01:42:55,640 --> 01:43:00,040
our police have been executed left, right and center. So if you're a cop, wouldn't you want to

1420
01:43:00,040 --> 01:43:07,400
wear a jacket and a helmet and, you know, all that stuff. So, you know, what's next, then the

1421
01:43:07,400 --> 01:43:12,120
bad guys get armor penetrating. You know, you know, I mean, it just gets worse and worse and worse.

1422
01:43:12,120 --> 01:43:17,640
You see that with the Mexican border. The answer is to go back to the beginning. You know, like you

1423
01:43:17,640 --> 01:43:24,120
said, a gun is just a gun if a psychopath isn't holding it. You know. So yeah, I couldn't agree

1424
01:43:24,120 --> 01:43:29,400
more. And I had a guy, Pasi Solberg on who's originally from Finland, which we hold as one of

1425
01:43:29,400 --> 01:43:35,480
the best education systems. And one of the big difference wasn't the Finnish boys and girls were

1426
01:43:35,480 --> 01:43:40,840
just so much more intelligent. It was the teachers were basically looking at the child as a whole

1427
01:43:40,840 --> 01:43:46,520
human being and gave more support to kids that maybe didn't have the best home life and had the

1428
01:43:46,520 --> 01:43:52,600
mental health element and had shorter days and more playtime and, you know, rather than FSAs and

1429
01:43:53,160 --> 01:44:01,240
it seems so simple, GPAs and all this stuff. So. Yeah, it seems simple. Absolutely. Well, thank you.

1430
01:44:01,240 --> 01:44:07,160
Sorry. No, no, no. Don't apologize. To think of someone as a human being is like outrageous

1431
01:44:07,160 --> 01:44:12,840
at the in this day and age. Like we're all just human and that's what it is. I like that you're

1432
01:44:12,840 --> 01:44:19,000
saying that to see someone as a whole human being shouldn't be that difficult. For me, I even look

1433
01:44:19,000 --> 01:44:23,960
at the shooter himself. I see him as a human being. Like that's where I was going before. And like,

1434
01:44:23,960 --> 01:44:29,560
I don't think that people have the same outlook as me because it's very difficult to come to that

1435
01:44:29,560 --> 01:44:34,600
conclusion of yes, he's a human being just like any of us. He made decisions that maybe we don't

1436
01:44:34,600 --> 01:44:40,280
agree with, but he's still a human being and that's what it is. So I think we should see everyone

1437
01:44:40,280 --> 01:44:47,240
as they are. Yeah. Human. Yeah. I agree 100%. I think it's a very mature decision that shows

1438
01:44:47,240 --> 01:44:54,760
that, you know, you've processed a lot of what you went through. Yeah. And I want to get to that in

1439
01:44:54,760 --> 01:45:00,760
just a moment, but Anthony, same thing. If you were king for a day, I got the sex right on this one.

1440
01:45:03,320 --> 01:45:08,200
Especially through a responder's lens, you know, would it be the same thing? Have you got things

1441
01:45:08,200 --> 01:45:15,320
to add? How do we make our children safer in 2021? Mental health obviously is a huge component,

1442
01:45:16,200 --> 01:45:23,960
but there's other areas that could be focused on. It's not just the child or something like that.

1443
01:45:23,960 --> 01:45:29,720
It is the teachers making sure they're involved with their kids and they're not tuned out.

1444
01:45:33,160 --> 01:45:39,640
Engage with, I mean, it's hard. I'm an instructor on the fire academy side of it,

1445
01:45:39,640 --> 01:45:46,680
so it's a little bit different obviously than the public school system, but I try to apply the

1446
01:45:47,880 --> 01:45:51,000
engage with the student where I can so I can teach them the best that I can and

1447
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:55,160
understand a little bit of that person. So if there's something that's not right, which might

1448
01:45:55,160 --> 01:45:59,400
tie into mental health where I can recognize, okay, this person's not acting right, something's going

1449
01:45:59,400 --> 01:46:05,960
on. Actually care, you know, caring. So as far as kind of understanding that and just treat it as

1450
01:46:05,960 --> 01:46:09,640
another day, okay, we're going to go with social studies today and, you know, check out or just go

1451
01:46:09,640 --> 01:46:15,960
through your routine or your plan or whatever it is and not really buy in and engage. Maybe that

1452
01:46:15,960 --> 01:46:19,320
has to do with you not liking your job. I don't want to not label it saying teachers don't like

1453
01:46:19,320 --> 01:46:24,600
their job, but that's a factor because if you don't really enjoy what you're doing, you know,

1454
01:46:24,600 --> 01:46:27,480
you're not going to put out a good quality product. You're not going to pay attention to the kids and

1455
01:46:27,480 --> 01:46:31,560
make sure they're literally learning the material you're trying to do and create that bond because

1456
01:46:31,560 --> 01:46:36,200
there's some teachers that can create bonds with kids from many, many years, you know, through

1457
01:46:36,200 --> 01:46:40,040
their whole school career where, you know, she would go back to elementary school because there's

1458
01:46:40,040 --> 01:46:47,560
certain teachers that left an impact. You know, that kind of stuff is simple, I think. So from

1459
01:46:47,560 --> 01:46:51,960
internally and externally, if you would look at it, you know, externally continue. Unfortunately,

1460
01:46:51,960 --> 01:46:56,200
you know, day and age, we're in the mindset of having to pay attention to who's coming and going

1461
01:46:56,200 --> 01:47:03,320
in the schools. We're going to have to continue to do that until we get the mindset that people feel

1462
01:47:03,320 --> 01:47:09,720
safe. It's, I don't know if it's good or if it's bad, it's probably, I don't want the kids to feel

1463
01:47:09,720 --> 01:47:14,360
like a prison because then it's, that's going to have an adverse effect too, but they still need to

1464
01:47:14,360 --> 01:47:18,360
pay attention to who's coming and going because not to get off topic, we'll come back to it, but

1465
01:47:19,080 --> 01:47:24,440
the individual that saw this guy coming in is the sole person that could have stopped this whole day.

1466
01:47:24,440 --> 01:47:29,320
He was well within his rights to stop the individual, but being alert and that maybe that

1467
01:47:29,320 --> 01:47:35,560
ties into this too is not being afraid to engage somebody that maybe doesn't belong on the property

1468
01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:44,920
or again, just even for security or the cops, you try to build a relationship. I mean, and today,

1469
01:47:44,920 --> 01:47:49,800
it's obviously it's a little bit hard, but pay attention to your people. Maybe, I don't know,

1470
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:53,960
this might be a stretch, but an undercover individual hanging out in the classrooms,

1471
01:47:54,600 --> 01:47:58,440
you know, just to engage and get on their level. So you might see something, say something may

1472
01:47:58,440 --> 01:48:03,080
play out internally amongst the kids. I think they're doing a better job of that now and this

1473
01:48:03,080 --> 01:48:07,240
goes for the kids too. They see something, don't be afraid to say something and if the littlest

1474
01:48:07,240 --> 01:48:11,000
thing, bring it to somebody's attention. I mean, I know I kind of went around a little bit a couple

1475
01:48:11,000 --> 01:48:16,680
of different ways, but I don't know if I have a really good

1476
01:48:18,680 --> 01:48:23,400
solution or suggestion for a solution or my thoughts. I mean, I'm kind of, it's so involved,

1477
01:48:23,400 --> 01:48:28,680
it's so big, so many things can be done, but simple things. I mean, yes, like the mental health

1478
01:48:28,680 --> 01:48:35,080
aspect of it is huge. You know, we're just going to pay a little bit more attention to our youth,

1479
01:48:35,080 --> 01:48:40,760
I guess. I mean, you can't stop the individual that maybe doesn't like school for whatever reason.

1480
01:48:40,760 --> 01:48:45,480
I mean, I don't totally reach in here with that, but I don't know, I'm just kind of off the beaten

1481
01:48:45,480 --> 01:48:51,320
path there. No, but it's a very powerful perspective from the two of you and again, I thank you for

1482
01:48:51,320 --> 01:48:58,840
this. But absolutely, I mean, the number of incidents that have been stopped because someone

1483
01:48:58,840 --> 01:49:04,040
challenged someone in a school because they weren't in their mind, it didn't pay out like that.

1484
01:49:04,040 --> 01:49:09,800
They were the powerful one, they had the weapon and it really sickens me to think that had he

1485
01:49:09,800 --> 01:49:14,680
challenged him, he may well have just crumpled and that would be it, you know. And instead, he was

1486
01:49:14,680 --> 01:49:19,880
able to do what he did, you know, pretty much unchallenged. You know, the coach lost his

1487
01:49:19,880 --> 01:49:24,920
life and you know, some other people I'm sure tried to but he'd already had the power move by

1488
01:49:24,920 --> 01:49:31,400
that point. So yeah, and I think the creating environment like firefighters, our teachers aren't

1489
01:49:31,400 --> 01:49:36,760
well paid, you know, they a lot of, you know, I know my son's teachers were supplying school supplies

1490
01:49:36,760 --> 01:49:41,800
themselves and things. So again, you have to hire the right people, we have to give them the

1491
01:49:41,800 --> 01:49:46,600
environment to thrive, not fail. And it's exactly the same in the first responder professions.

1492
01:49:46,600 --> 01:49:52,200
Yeah, I was gonna say that you only get out of this stuff, what you put into it and that could be

1493
01:49:52,200 --> 01:49:59,160
applied anywhere, you know. God, I hate when I do that, I lose my thought, I had a lot of thought I

1494
01:49:59,160 --> 01:50:03,640
wanted to mention and maybe it'll come back to me later, but it was to tie into that whole thing.

1495
01:50:03,640 --> 01:50:04,600
Dang it.

1496
01:50:04,600 --> 01:50:08,200
Well, let me ask, I'll ask Tori one more thing and then see if it comes back to you. So,

1497
01:50:08,200 --> 01:50:16,520
to close, you went through this horrific thing, you lost your soulmate, plus, you know, a bunch of

1498
01:50:16,520 --> 01:50:23,720
other, you know, members of your school and or friends. Of course, the dark side of that is just

1499
01:50:24,440 --> 01:50:31,160
fucking awful, for lack of a better word. What has worked, what has helped the last few years

1500
01:50:31,160 --> 01:50:38,520
from you get, for you to get from that dark place to where you are today? Not saying today is perfect,

1501
01:50:38,520 --> 01:50:42,680
but you're better, you've grown, you're driven now, you have your art.

1502
01:50:43,720 --> 01:50:49,160
That's what I was gonna start with. I remember those days after sitting in my backyard for

1503
01:50:50,200 --> 01:50:55,080
hours on end, like it would start to get dark out and I didn't realize that I had been there

1504
01:50:55,080 --> 01:51:00,680
since the morning. All I'm doing outside is painting for hours. And I was like,

1505
01:51:00,680 --> 01:51:07,320
um, I got into a lot of different projects. Um, I was finally, that's when I was able to call

1506
01:51:07,320 --> 01:51:13,000
myself an artist. I was doing it every day and I was like, why, why, you don't have to have a special

1507
01:51:13,720 --> 01:51:21,640
certification to, I'm creating and this is what I'm doing. And that gave me some guidance,

1508
01:51:21,640 --> 01:51:27,080
just calling myself that, like allowing myself to step into that role. Um,

1509
01:51:27,080 --> 01:51:34,040
I started yoga, um, and I didn't even, I don't even know what brought me to that first class.

1510
01:51:34,920 --> 01:51:45,080
I mean, spirit, something, because I remember feeling the feeling,

1511
01:51:46,920 --> 01:51:52,920
what's the word I was looking for? The potential, not potential, the capability that I had inside

1512
01:51:52,920 --> 01:51:57,480
of me for anything. I mean, yes, it's yoga, you're just stretching and, and doing this and that, but

1513
01:51:57,480 --> 01:52:03,640
it's so much of a spiritual practice as well, where it challenges your brain, it challenges your body,

1514
01:52:03,640 --> 01:52:10,440
it challenges everything. If you let it, um, I felt the strength in my body and then I related

1515
01:52:10,440 --> 01:52:17,720
that to the strength in my heart. And it just, it really changed me and I didn't have the thought

1516
01:52:17,720 --> 01:52:20,840
to teach at that point. I was just like, you know what, this is something that I really love to do

1517
01:52:20,840 --> 01:52:28,680
and I'm going to keep doing it. Um, so here I am painting, doing yoga. Um, it sent me on honestly,

1518
01:52:29,640 --> 01:52:35,640
just a very spiritual journey and it's spirituality that saved me understanding that

1519
01:52:36,120 --> 01:52:41,480
I'm more than this body, that I'm more than the experience that happened to me, um, that I have

1520
01:52:41,480 --> 01:52:50,120
the power to change other lives by knowing that I have a choice in how I want to react to something.

1521
01:52:50,120 --> 01:52:57,080
That I don't have to crumble, that I can when I need to. And that's also something huge is

1522
01:52:57,080 --> 01:53:04,040
learning acceptance and I have not accepted the situation yet, but accepting the emotions that

1523
01:53:04,040 --> 01:53:11,160
come with it. Um, accepting my humanness, embracing my humanness, while also honoring that

1524
01:53:12,680 --> 01:53:18,280
this is not all that I am. Um, and the experience is not all that I am. So

1525
01:53:18,280 --> 01:53:22,360
it's really it. Like spirituality was everything. I got a bunch of crystals, I was doing

1526
01:53:22,920 --> 01:53:28,840
just random stuff, um, connecting to the earth. That's something that's helped me a lot is just

1527
01:53:28,840 --> 01:53:35,000
being in nature, um, remembering gratitude, remembering the miracle of that one tree that's

1528
01:53:35,000 --> 01:53:41,640
allowing you to breathe and, and that there's just so much more than that one experience. And as much

1529
01:53:41,640 --> 01:53:49,000
as it haunts me or as, as present as it is in my life, it is not the present moment. So I can live

1530
01:53:49,000 --> 01:53:56,120
with it, but I'm not there. And I think that my self-awareness has, has really helped me in this

1531
01:53:56,120 --> 01:54:04,600
journey. Um, yeah, I could go into a lot more, but that's, that's really, yep. I don't know.

1532
01:54:04,600 --> 01:54:09,560
No, and you know, what's, what's amazing is it parallels so many other people have been on here,

1533
01:54:09,560 --> 01:54:15,480
many of whom were soldiers, police officers, firefighters, but the same thing, family, tribe,

1534
01:54:16,040 --> 01:54:22,840
nature, art. I mean, you know, gratitude is a huge one. So yeah, I mean, we're seeing these common

1535
01:54:22,840 --> 01:54:29,000
denominators, whether you're a 50 year old retired seal, or, you know, we just came out of high

1536
01:54:29,000 --> 01:54:34,760
school and it's, it's very powerful to see that these same things are, you know, resonating.

1537
01:54:34,760 --> 01:54:40,360
I think art is absolutely huge. You're able to focus that energy rather than some polarizing

1538
01:54:40,360 --> 01:54:46,120
political thing. Now you can focus your emotion same way as Joaquin does, excuse me, Joaquin's

1539
01:54:46,120 --> 01:54:55,560
dad does. So yeah, beautiful. And my, just one more thing, my creations with my, my art helps me

1540
01:54:55,560 --> 01:55:02,200
because I send it to other people around the world and they're motivated by it and they want to start

1541
01:55:02,200 --> 01:55:09,800
their healing journey. And I, I get by by helping others get by. That's from the first day. I

1542
01:55:09,800 --> 01:55:14,520
remember the day after everyone was like, why are you here? I went, I showed up to the vigil.

1543
01:55:14,520 --> 01:55:17,880
I don't even know how I did it. And everyone's like, why are you here? How are you hugging

1544
01:55:17,880 --> 01:55:21,640
everyone? How are you not crying? How are you? I'm sitting there talking to all of his friends,

1545
01:55:21,640 --> 01:55:28,760
kind of giving them closers, if you will, like, like don't hold onto any fight that you had and,

1546
01:55:28,760 --> 01:55:35,560
and, and really just give some kind of closure of some kind of, that was also, I felt being channeled,

1547
01:55:35,560 --> 01:55:43,000
but helping others my whole life, we started with this conversation that my whole life is about

1548
01:55:43,000 --> 01:55:50,840
helping other people and realizing my purpose came from this tragedy. And I was like, I'm

1549
01:55:50,840 --> 01:55:57,800
like, I'm going to do this tragedy knowing that that drive to help other people wasn't just like

1550
01:55:57,800 --> 01:56:05,240
an idea, a thought, like it is my entire purpose on this earth to give back and to have processed

1551
01:56:05,240 --> 01:56:11,080
all the pain and do something with it. So now I'm done. Which is beautiful because you're a

1552
01:56:11,080 --> 01:56:19,800
miracle baby from a man who has the same purpose. So yes, thank you. So Anthony, same thing for you,

1553
01:56:19,800 --> 01:56:28,600
only that event, but I mean, 20 plus years in the fire service. I, I sometimes have to step back and

1554
01:56:28,600 --> 01:56:35,800
ask myself how I, how I do it. Because I mentioned earlier is that, you know, we see a lot of stuff

1555
01:56:35,800 --> 01:56:41,960
that the general public don't see and sometimes on a regular basis, you know, the tragedy was

1556
01:56:41,960 --> 01:56:50,520
obviously in a scale by itself, but, you know, in 25 years, 27 years, I've included all my time

1557
01:56:50,520 --> 01:56:53,240
to this day and I still have about 11 more to go before I retire.

1558
01:56:54,120 --> 01:56:55,880
You're glotton for punishment.

1559
01:56:57,640 --> 01:57:04,040
But I think the love for the job and, and the genuine want to help and do things for

1560
01:57:04,040 --> 01:57:12,920
for other people is what keeps me going in the job aspect of it. But the tragedy and dealing

1561
01:57:12,920 --> 01:57:18,440
with some people wanting to be strong from that was, that's, it's still hard. I mean, I find myself

1562
01:57:18,440 --> 01:57:24,840
a little, I get lost in my thoughts because I kind of, not kind of, I think I feel a lot of pain of

1563
01:57:24,840 --> 01:57:29,400
everybody that's involved and people that we're close with because it's just, you know, it wasn't

1564
01:57:29,400 --> 01:57:39,480
just Tori and I and Joaquin, it's everybody else that we knew. I live in the city. I work for the

1565
01:57:39,480 --> 01:57:45,720
city. I see a lot of people. So, you know, we know the parents of several of the victims and

1566
01:57:48,840 --> 01:57:49,720
it's kind of hard to,

1567
01:57:53,400 --> 01:57:57,400
to deal with that kind of stuff going forward. But I think what's helped me a lot through that is

1568
01:57:57,400 --> 01:58:04,280
Tori is, has been amazing as far as, and if you've seen any of the interviews and

1569
01:58:05,160 --> 01:58:09,560
whatnot, especially after the documentary releases, the way they describe how harsh inner

1570
01:58:09,560 --> 01:58:14,200
strength, her poise, pose, poise, however you say that word, or whatnot has given other people

1571
01:58:14,200 --> 01:58:18,040
strength to do certain things. And, you know, we bounced a couple of things off of each other

1572
01:58:18,040 --> 01:58:24,520
because of our obviously unique connection to this. And, and I think that's what's helped me a lot.

1573
01:58:24,520 --> 01:58:29,240
And I still have my moments. So, we live two blocks from the school. So, and I work obviously

1574
01:58:29,240 --> 01:58:33,080
in the same city. So, those constant triggers, those constant reminders are going to be there

1575
01:58:33,080 --> 01:58:38,760
until the day we are able to leave this area when the time is right and put that page behind you.

1576
01:58:38,760 --> 01:58:43,960
But I know I got off track a little bit, but it was kind of just, I think the love for the job.

1577
01:58:43,960 --> 01:58:49,800
And I still love what I do and being there for the community. And, you know, it's just,

1578
01:58:49,800 --> 01:58:54,520
not too many people still like this job. You know, they're not in it for the right reasons.

1579
01:58:54,520 --> 01:58:58,680
I think when I finally got into it, you know, it's just what I wanted to do. And,

1580
01:58:59,640 --> 01:59:02,920
and I do it for the right reason. I think that just keeps me driving, keeps me strong.

1581
01:59:02,920 --> 01:59:07,960
So, I don't, I still haven't had that moment to where, you know, I was kind of maybe the first

1582
01:59:07,960 --> 01:59:12,600
year or so maybe numb to it to where the second or third year, I was just kind of waiting for the

1583
01:59:12,600 --> 01:59:18,120
bottom to fall out. But it hasn't, it hasn't come. And other than those moments that I've

1584
01:59:18,120 --> 01:59:21,320
mentioned earlier, where we're after the documentary and you asked me specific questions,

1585
01:59:21,320 --> 01:59:26,600
I wouldn't have this conversation or this wouldn't happen right now. If I had watched the

1586
01:59:26,600 --> 01:59:30,280
documentary and we try to have a conversation, it just wouldn't. Because I just, that pain that I

1587
01:59:30,280 --> 01:59:35,960
feel, not hers, but everybody's, you know, you know, I don't want to put it all on her. My wife is

1588
01:59:35,960 --> 01:59:40,040
definitely the rest of the family. And I want them to beef that they've forgotten. I mean,

1589
01:59:40,040 --> 01:59:44,200
it's obviously that's what family is all about. And maybe there's a hidden strength there that's

1590
01:59:44,200 --> 01:59:51,000
guided us through, that's kept us strong as well. Beautiful. Well, I think that's the perfect place

1591
01:59:51,000 --> 01:59:57,480
to end. I just want to thank you both. You know, it's been such a powerful conversation. It's such

1592
01:59:57,480 --> 02:00:04,200
an important perspective. I mean, the dynamic of the both of you, the value that it has for everyone

1593
02:00:04,200 --> 02:00:11,480
else, whether it's related to an event in a school, a first responder, a civilian that only got the

1594
02:00:11,480 --> 02:00:21,640
Fox CNN version of Columbine, Parkland, you know, Sandy Hook. It's important and completely, you

1595
02:00:21,640 --> 02:00:29,880
know, it's not subjective. Yeah, you can't forget. No, you gotta. And that's all I was going to

1596
02:00:29,880 --> 02:00:34,440
mention earlier is just continue on years down the road. Don't forget these people, you know,

1597
02:00:34,440 --> 02:00:39,480
especially the survivors. Well, and let's fucking fix this thing too. Excuse my language, but

1598
02:00:39,480 --> 02:00:45,480
I mean, I get so angry, you know, was it people as Einstein said, insanity is doing the same thing,

1599
02:00:45,480 --> 02:00:50,440
expecting different results. You know, you've done your little protests about pro and anti guns.

1600
02:00:50,440 --> 02:00:54,920
It hasn't done a damn thing. Our children are still dying in the schools, you know, amongst,

1601
02:00:54,920 --> 02:00:59,960
you know, everything else. So it's time that we step up, get uncomfortable, have these kind of

1602
02:00:59,960 --> 02:01:06,600
conversations and honor the ones that we lost by fixing this. Yeah, absolutely. I agree 100%.

1603
02:01:06,600 --> 02:01:11,880
So well, thank you both. I mean, Tori, you know, I hate

1604
02:01:13,880 --> 02:01:19,320
pulling people through what they went through, but the number of people, the thousands of people

1605
02:01:19,320 --> 02:01:25,320
that are going to hear this, the ripple effect of your story today, I'm very selfish because I

1606
02:01:25,320 --> 02:01:30,760
didn't have to relive anything really you guys did, but I just appreciate your courage. I

1607
02:01:30,760 --> 02:01:35,880
appreciate your trust and just thank you for being so generous in telling your story today.

1608
02:01:35,880 --> 02:01:39,640
No problem. Like I said, I believe it's healthy to have the conversation. I don't,

1609
02:01:40,920 --> 02:01:44,280
you know, don't, don't, don't bottle up. And that's kind of my thing to everybody is don't

1610
02:01:44,280 --> 02:01:49,800
be afraid to have that conversation a little bit. You know, you got to, that's that compassion that

1611
02:01:49,800 --> 02:01:55,000
we talked about right in the very beginning. It has to stay there. So I'll leave it at that.

1612
02:01:55,000 --> 02:02:10,360
Thank you. Thank you.