1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,540 This episode is brought to you by Bubs Naturals 2 00:00:02,540 --> 00:00:04,600 and one of the most profound new supplements 3 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,080 I've added to my own diet is collagen. 4 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,320 And Bubz provides the only collagen 5 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:11,600 that is not only NSF certified, 6 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,160 but also Whole30 certified. 7 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:15,300 Now when we think of collagen, 8 00:00:15,300 --> 00:00:16,760 you might think of beauty products, 9 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,280 but when ingested, collagen not only positively affects 10 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,680 skin, nails, and hair, but also joint and gut health. 11 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,620 Something that I witnessed personally within myself. 12 00:00:27,620 --> 00:00:30,960 Now I'm also a huge fan of altruistic business 13 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,520 and Bubz was founded out of tragedy. 14 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,600 Glenn 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sponsored by a company I've used 29 00:01:12,620 --> 00:01:16,260 for well over a decade and that is 511. 30 00:01:16,260 --> 00:01:19,040 I wore their uniforms back in Anaheim, California 31 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,500 and I've used their products ever since. 32 00:01:21,500 --> 00:01:23,760 From their incredibly strong yet light 33 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,240 footwear to their cut uniforms 34 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,840 for both male and female responders. 35 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,600 I found them hands down the best work wear 36 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,840 in all the departments that I've worked for. 37 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:35,440 Outside of the fire service, 38 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,440 I use their luggage for everything and I travel a lot 39 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,800 and they are also now sponsoring the 7X team 40 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:43,640 as we embark around the world 41 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,680 on the Human Performance Project. 42 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,660 We have Murph coming up in May 43 00:01:47,660 --> 00:01:50,000 and again, I bought their plate carrier. 44 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,080 I ended up buying real ballistic plates 45 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,360 rather than the fake weight plates 46 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,560 and that has been my ride or die through Murph 47 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,600 the last few years as well. 48 00:01:58,600 --> 00:01:59,940 One area I wanna talk about 49 00:01:59,940 --> 00:02:02,120 that I haven't in previous sponsorship spots 50 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,500 is their brick and mortar element. 51 00:02:04,500 --> 00:02:06,580 They were predominantly an online company 52 00:02:06,580 --> 00:02:07,960 up till more recently, 53 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,920 but now they are approaching 100 stores all over the US. 54 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:14,320 My local store is here in Gainesville, Florida 55 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,400 and I've been multiple times. 56 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,020 And the discounts you see online 57 00:02:18,020 --> 00:02:20,200 are applied also in the stores. 58 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:24,160 So as I mentioned, 511 is offering you 15% 59 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,720 of every purchase that you make. 60 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,100 But I do wanna say more often than not, 61 00:02:29,100 --> 00:02:31,020 they have an even deeper discount, 62 00:02:31,020 --> 00:02:33,560 especially around holiday times. 63 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,360 But if you use the code SHIELD15, 64 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,640 that's S-H-I-E-L-D-1-5, 65 00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:42,160 you will get 15% off your order 66 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,340 or in the stores every time you make a purchase. 67 00:02:45,340 --> 00:02:47,800 And if you wanna hear more about 511, 68 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,480 who they stand for and who works with them, 69 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,200 listen to episode 580 of Behind the Shield podcast 70 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,680 with 511 regional director, Will Ayers. 71 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,400 Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. 72 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:01,760 As always, my name's James Gearing 73 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:03,400 and this week it is my absolute honor 74 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,640 to welcome on the show Marine veteran, 75 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:08,960 law enforcement officer and co-founder 76 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,880 of the Overwatch Collective, Greg Grogan. 77 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,640 Now in this conversation, we discuss a host of topics 78 00:03:15,640 --> 00:03:18,000 from his journey into the military, 79 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,240 entering the world of policing, 80 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,680 identifying the need for mental health help 81 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,880 amongst his own professions, 82 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,680 the creation of the Overwatch Collective, 83 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,680 finding culturally competent clinicians, 84 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,080 addressing the financial needs and so much more. 85 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,160 Now before we get to this incredible conversation, 86 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,900 as I say every week, please just take a moment, 87 00:03:38,900 --> 00:03:41,080 go to whichever app you listen to this on, 88 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:45,440 subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating. 89 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,240 Every single five star rating 90 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,280 truly does elevate this podcast, 91 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,720 therefore making it easier for others to find. 92 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:56,520 And this is a free library of almost 900 episodes now. 93 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,800 So all I ask in return is that you help share 94 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,160 these incredible men and women stories 95 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,880 so I can get them to every single person 96 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,440 on planet earth who needs to hear them. 97 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:12,280 So with that being said, I introduce to you, Greg Grogan. 98 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:13,120 Enjoy. 99 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:18,120 Well Greg, I want to start by saying, 100 00:04:19,840 --> 00:04:22,840 thank you to really multiple people that reached out 101 00:04:22,840 --> 00:04:25,480 and suggested that you and I finally come together 102 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:26,320 and do an interview. 103 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,960 So I want to thank everyone from DDF, 104 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:38,660 from Team 105 00:04:38,660 --> 00:04:41,720 and all of you who are out there. 106 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,160 everyone from DD Finder to Sam, 107 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,040 to all the other people that have kind of reminded me 108 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:49,520 of your project and your work. 109 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:50,680 And I also wanna welcome you 110 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,280 onto the Behind the Shield podcast today. 111 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:54,280 I appreciate it James. 112 00:04:54,280 --> 00:04:55,960 I'm super excited to be here. 113 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:57,220 I know it's been a long time coming 114 00:04:57,220 --> 00:04:59,600 and I appreciate the opportunity to come on 115 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,480 and talk a little bit. 116 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,160 So where on planet earth we finding you today? 117 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:05,800 So on planet earth, 118 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,440 I am about 30 minutes south of San Francisco. 119 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:10,280 Beautiful. 120 00:05:10,280 --> 00:05:12,760 I would love to start at the very beginning of your timeline. 121 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:14,600 So tell me where you were born 122 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,400 and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, 123 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,240 what your parents did, how many siblings. 124 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,840 Yeah, so I was born in Millbury, California, 125 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:25,360 which is about 10 minutes south of San Francisco. 126 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,960 I was born into a military and law enforcement family. 127 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,480 Mom, dad still together. 128 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,120 Dad's been a police officer for over 40 years, 129 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,220 did over 20 years in the military. 130 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:39,240 Mom worked at a school 131 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,800 and then was fortunate enough to be able to retire early. 132 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,000 So she had more time to go shoe shopping 133 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,680 and go to home goods and go to the store. 134 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,480 And then I have one brother who's four years older than me. 135 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,960 His name's Jeff and he's a firefighter 136 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,120 down in Southern California. 137 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,360 Whereabouts in Southern California, roughly. 138 00:05:58,360 --> 00:05:59,200 So he's, 139 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:02,760 it's near Pasadena. 140 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,000 So he's a fire captain down there. 141 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,100 So he's been a firefighter for about 10 years now, 142 00:06:08,100 --> 00:06:09,900 just hit his 10 year mark. 143 00:06:09,900 --> 00:06:11,280 He's married to his wife 144 00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:12,840 and then they just had a beautiful little girl. 145 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:15,040 So I'm an uncle now officially. 146 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:16,160 Congratulations. 147 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:17,400 Yeah, I used to live up in Burbank, 148 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,640 which wasn't too far from Pasadena. 149 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:24,640 So as the son of not only a veteran, but a police officer, 150 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:26,800 having this mental health lens 151 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,360 that you have now at your age, when you look back, 152 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,120 did your father have any struggles of his own 153 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:34,440 between those two careers? 154 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,480 Not that I saw at a younger age. 155 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:40,440 I think now as I've transitioned to what we're doing 156 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,440 at the Overwatch Collective and learning more about it, 157 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,960 he's done multiple deployments overseas 158 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,400 when my brother and I were younger. 159 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,320 So I know that took a toll on not only just him, 160 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,480 but my mom, my brother and myself. 161 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,920 And then also as a police officer, 162 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,920 he obviously saw everything that we see as first responders 163 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,920 and missed family events and had to deal 164 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,360 with some unfortunate suicide 165 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,880 amongst his friends within his community. 166 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:14,840 What about career calls? 167 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:16,560 I mean, 40 years is a long time. 168 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,120 What are some of the big responses 169 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:20,880 that he had in those four decades? 170 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,360 So he actually wrote a book. 171 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:26,480 So it's all in his book. 172 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:27,720 So it's called The Grogan Store. 173 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,120 And he talks all about, 174 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,200 he talks about his time as a police officer. 175 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,240 And he shares some of the funny stories 176 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,040 and then he shares some of the serious ones 177 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,480 in addition to his time in the military. 178 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:44,760 But no major calls stick out to me. 179 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:46,800 All right. 180 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,840 Well, then what about athletics and sports? 181 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:50,920 What were you playing when you were young? 182 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,520 So my brother and I grew up riding dirt bikes. 183 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,400 So you throw me on two wheels and I'm on the dirt bike. 184 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,480 So you throw me on two wheels and I'm a happy man. 185 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:05,280 Anything from a Harley to a BMX bike to a dirt bike. 186 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,360 I'm fortunate to be one of the motorcycle officers 187 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:09,640 at my police department now. 188 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:13,320 And you can't pay me enough money to be on a Harley 189 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:14,160 and be working. 190 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:15,120 I absolutely love it. 191 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,200 So started riding dirt bikes at a young age. 192 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,280 I still currently do ride. 193 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:22,600 And then I ran track and field. 194 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,520 So I always make the joke, it's kind of like NASCAR. 195 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,360 I just ran left the entire time, no right turns. 196 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,280 And I feel like my neck just is like constantly 197 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:32,280 to the left a little bit 198 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,280 because I was just running in circles. 199 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,440 What about the discipline within track and field? 200 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,760 Were you a short distance athlete or a long distance? 201 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:42,580 Right in between. 202 00:08:42,580 --> 00:08:44,920 So it was the 800 meter run. 203 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,440 So I am not a good sprinter at all. 204 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:48,560 That's why I like at work. 205 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:49,760 I don't chase after people. 206 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,080 I'll use the radio and set up a perimeter. 207 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,160 I'm not fast at sprinting whatsoever. 208 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:59,160 I prefer the longer distances runs where I specialized 209 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,720 in the 800 meter, just the two laps around the track. 210 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,140 And it was like one of those ones where it starts 211 00:09:07,140 --> 00:09:09,540 and it's done quick, but also there's a lot going on 212 00:09:09,540 --> 00:09:11,920 in that short little like two minutes. 213 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:12,760 It's been funny. 214 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,800 My son is a miler and he's kind of finding himself 215 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,160 being brought more into the 800 as well. 216 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,560 And the way that the long distance athletes 217 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:24,560 and the sprinters talk to each other in his track team 218 00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:27,160 reminds me so much of like police and fire 219 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,000 or structural fire and wildland fire. 220 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,040 Like, oh, I could never do what you do. 221 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,480 So that the sprinters don't want to run a mile. 222 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,900 And as you said, the milers know that they're going to be 223 00:09:36,900 --> 00:09:39,600 somewhat humiliated if they do 100 meter hurdle 224 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,160 with some of their colleagues. 225 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:43,420 Yeah, you're just getting smoked. 226 00:09:43,420 --> 00:09:46,080 I know I do not miss the days of doing like the long runs 227 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:47,680 though, where it was like, all right, today 228 00:09:47,680 --> 00:09:49,680 we're going to run five miles and then do abs. 229 00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:52,400 And you're like, nope, I'm good. 230 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,200 Anything after two miles, I'm checked out. 231 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,040 Now, what about career aspirations? 232 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,000 You had a mother in education, a father in law enforcement. 233 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,000 What were your career goals when you were in the school age? 234 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,600 I pretty much, I always say, I think I came out of the womb 235 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:10,040 knowing I was going to be in the military 236 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:11,960 and a first responder. 237 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,120 I wasn't the brightest in school at all. 238 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:16,760 I was always one of the ones where the teachers 239 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,760 had to tell me like, either you pass this 240 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:21,280 or you're going to fail the class. 241 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:25,480 Or my progress reports were always on the fridge 242 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,800 at the house and my grades and getting a C 243 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,440 on my science test was great because I passed the damn thing. 244 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:32,680 Like that was me. 245 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:35,160 I was not that great of a student. 246 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:39,080 And I knew at the age of 18, I wanted to join the military. 247 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,820 And then fourth generation law enforcement in my family. 248 00:10:42,820 --> 00:10:46,880 So I think I always knew I was going to be a police officer. 249 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,500 So how did you find yourself choosing the Marine Reserves? 250 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:58,000 So, you know, like whenever you get young individuals 251 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,440 that are like, okay, I want to join the military, 252 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,280 you originally start off thinking infantry, right? 253 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:04,560 Where you're like, okay, you're going to join 254 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:07,280 the Marine Corps to go infantry. 255 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,300 And where you have a gun, you're going to go shoot, 256 00:11:09,300 --> 00:11:10,460 you're going to get deployed. 257 00:11:10,460 --> 00:11:12,800 You never know, but that's the exciting stuff. 258 00:11:13,780 --> 00:11:16,680 And I really wish I could have done four years 259 00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:18,260 active duty at least to get that 260 00:11:18,260 --> 00:11:20,760 active duty experience time. 261 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,020 But I also knew I wanted to be in the police academy 262 00:11:23,020 --> 00:11:26,240 around 20 and a half to 21 years of age. 263 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,360 So I decided to do a six year contract 264 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:32,140 in the Marine Corps Reserve with the hopes of 265 00:11:32,140 --> 00:11:35,340 potentially doing a deployment before I became a cop, 266 00:11:35,340 --> 00:11:38,200 even though it didn't really work out that way. 267 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,840 So I should have asked you this before. 268 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,640 A lot of us wearing uniform in this generation, 269 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:48,120 you know, were somewhat inspired by the events of 9-11. 270 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:49,520 How old were you when that happened? 271 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:50,760 And what was the impact of that? 272 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,120 Well, how did that day unfold for you? 273 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,400 Yeah, so I was, I think I was in third grade 274 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,320 and it was in the morning. 275 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:03,320 And I remember I was in class and I was at like a point 276 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,720 in my life where I didn't really realize like the 277 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,480 the drastic impact that 9-11 had on our country 278 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,800 until my dad started to get activated 279 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,080 and was deployed for it. 280 00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:21,560 But I think it made a lot of us like frustrated, obviously. 281 00:12:21,560 --> 00:12:24,780 And then when I did become older and I watched movies 282 00:12:24,780 --> 00:12:27,560 and documentaries about 9-11 and really seeing the impact 283 00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:30,680 that it had on our country, it was like, 284 00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:33,040 okay, Marine Corps infantry it is. 285 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,680 So going back to your dad for a second, 286 00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:38,000 I think this is an important part 287 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,000 of the mental health conversation is that people 288 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,400 that are able to process the trauma in their careers, 289 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,400 you know, in a healthy way. 290 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,620 And I've talked about this quite a bit. 291 00:12:48,620 --> 00:12:53,240 I had, I mean, I guess a normal amount of trauma growing up 292 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,880 from parents' divorce, almost dying in a house fire 293 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,000 when I was four, but then I also had, I would argue, 294 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,720 equal amounts of the very things that you need 295 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,680 to process trauma from growing up around 296 00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:08,400 my dad healing animals to being in nature on a farm 297 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,080 and all the things that we identify 298 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,000 are now helping our people that are struggling. 299 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,120 When you look back now, 300 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,420 or even in conversations with your father, 301 00:13:17,420 --> 00:13:20,760 what were the elements of his life that allowed him 302 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,600 to have such a fruitful career 303 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,760 and process the things that he saw and did? 304 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:31,520 I think it was our vacations and our time on the dirt bikes. 305 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,260 I know we would try to go on as many vacations as possible. 306 00:13:35,260 --> 00:13:37,140 My family really liked going on cruises 307 00:13:37,140 --> 00:13:39,060 and spending time with our family and friends. 308 00:13:39,060 --> 00:13:43,060 And then whenever we got the opportunity, 309 00:13:43,060 --> 00:13:46,620 my brother, my dad and I would go ride dirt bikes 310 00:13:46,620 --> 00:13:47,580 for a day or two. 311 00:13:47,580 --> 00:13:50,760 And that was kind of his like outlet. 312 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,700 And now I see how important that was for his career 313 00:13:54,700 --> 00:13:57,460 to have an outlet because nowadays 314 00:13:57,460 --> 00:13:59,100 where everybody's so short staffed, 315 00:13:59,100 --> 00:14:03,940 you get that opportunity to go mountain biking, 316 00:14:03,940 --> 00:14:05,940 go hiking with your dog. 317 00:14:05,940 --> 00:14:08,620 You don't get those healthy outcomes, 318 00:14:08,620 --> 00:14:10,300 those healthy coping mechanisms. 319 00:14:10,300 --> 00:14:13,620 And so I think that's one of the things that I see 320 00:14:13,620 --> 00:14:16,380 that benefited him throughout his career. 321 00:14:16,380 --> 00:14:17,220 Beautiful. 322 00:14:17,220 --> 00:14:18,980 And what about during that time? 323 00:14:18,980 --> 00:14:23,020 Was it a time where there was a lot of extra work 324 00:14:23,020 --> 00:14:24,340 forced over time, et cetera, 325 00:14:24,340 --> 00:14:27,620 or was he able to do the hours that were allocated to him? 326 00:14:27,620 --> 00:14:30,420 And then that allowed him to spend more time 327 00:14:30,420 --> 00:14:32,140 with you guys at home. 328 00:14:32,140 --> 00:14:35,380 Yeah, I think, yeah, that's right. 329 00:14:35,380 --> 00:14:38,060 There was not much mandated overtime. 330 00:14:38,060 --> 00:14:39,860 I know the politics have changed a lot 331 00:14:39,860 --> 00:14:42,820 where it was the whole unfortunate defunding 332 00:14:42,820 --> 00:14:44,280 where we lost a lot of personnel. 333 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,420 And now there's still a lot of departments 334 00:14:46,420 --> 00:14:48,660 that are very short staffed and doing a minimum 335 00:14:48,660 --> 00:14:51,400 of 24 hours of overtime of paycheck 336 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,540 where back then during his time, 337 00:14:53,540 --> 00:14:57,220 I don't remember him ever having to work forced overtime 338 00:14:57,220 --> 00:14:59,060 unless it was your normal sick call, 339 00:14:59,060 --> 00:15:00,420 we need someone to come in. 340 00:15:02,020 --> 00:15:06,200 And when I was growing up, he was a sergeant, 341 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:07,740 probably when I was like 10 years old. 342 00:15:07,740 --> 00:15:11,440 So he wasn't really doing much of like the special details 343 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,700 or the mandated overtime. 344 00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:15,360 And you mentioned cruises as well. 345 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:16,540 It's funny, like I said, 346 00:15:16,540 --> 00:15:18,140 I'm a farm boy from England originally, 347 00:15:18,140 --> 00:15:21,460 but one of the best things that I do is go on a cruise. 348 00:15:21,460 --> 00:15:22,300 We live in Florida, 349 00:15:22,300 --> 00:15:24,500 so the ports are everywhere on our doorstep 350 00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:26,740 and there's a discount because you live here. 351 00:15:26,740 --> 00:15:28,820 But from the outside looking in, 352 00:15:28,820 --> 00:15:30,900 it looks like an old person's thing, 353 00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:32,100 go on there and gamble, 354 00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:36,980 but you can literally not pay any of the internet fees. 355 00:15:36,980 --> 00:15:41,740 Your phone will be completely unusable by that point. 356 00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:43,860 People cook for you, people clean for you, 357 00:15:43,860 --> 00:15:46,220 and you can truly, truly just decompress 358 00:15:46,220 --> 00:15:47,420 and be present with your family. 359 00:15:47,420 --> 00:15:49,740 So through your kind of younger perspective, 360 00:15:49,740 --> 00:15:52,580 what was your experience with cruising specifically? 361 00:15:53,540 --> 00:15:54,380 Yeah, I loved it. 362 00:15:54,380 --> 00:15:56,500 And back then I think I was like, 363 00:15:56,500 --> 00:15:58,860 I think we did like eight cruises total as a family 364 00:15:58,860 --> 00:16:01,100 and my parents would go on some cruises by themselves. 365 00:16:01,100 --> 00:16:03,600 But yeah, I mean, I still look back on it now 366 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,060 and it was some of the best vacations 367 00:16:05,060 --> 00:16:06,740 and like my cousins would come, 368 00:16:06,740 --> 00:16:09,420 my aunt and uncles and my grandma was always there. 369 00:16:09,420 --> 00:16:12,060 And I think like that, 370 00:16:12,060 --> 00:16:13,900 and then also like being in the mountains 371 00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:15,980 somewhere where you don't have service, 372 00:16:15,980 --> 00:16:19,380 it's so beneficial now because our community, 373 00:16:19,380 --> 00:16:20,780 especially our younger generation, 374 00:16:20,780 --> 00:16:22,100 they're all on like TikTok, 375 00:16:22,100 --> 00:16:23,540 everybody's on their phones, right? 376 00:16:23,540 --> 00:16:28,380 Like, and it's just good to have a break from your phone 377 00:16:28,380 --> 00:16:30,000 and not be able to use it whatsoever. 378 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,940 And then, but yeah, I just like cruises 379 00:16:31,940 --> 00:16:33,060 are my favorite vacation 380 00:16:33,060 --> 00:16:37,680 because you're eating really good food, you're drinking. 381 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,760 Some people do work out and exercise. 382 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,860 I have not really found that skill yet on a cruise, 383 00:16:42,860 --> 00:16:45,140 but I thoroughly enjoy it. 384 00:16:45,140 --> 00:16:45,980 Absolutely, yeah. 385 00:16:45,980 --> 00:16:48,220 I just, I literally play with the weights on a cruise 386 00:16:48,220 --> 00:16:52,020 because it's hard to have your normal routine 387 00:16:52,020 --> 00:16:53,740 because there's not bumper plates 388 00:16:53,740 --> 00:16:55,340 and all kinds of stuff lying around 389 00:16:55,340 --> 00:16:56,860 because they would be rolling everywhere. 390 00:16:56,860 --> 00:16:58,340 So you gotta be a little bit more imaginative. 391 00:16:58,340 --> 00:16:59,580 So I just kind of go in there 392 00:16:59,580 --> 00:17:01,540 and just lift some random things, 393 00:17:01,540 --> 00:17:02,740 get the blood pumping a little bit 394 00:17:02,740 --> 00:17:04,460 and the treadmills and stuff 395 00:17:04,460 --> 00:17:06,380 are usually looking over the back of the ship too. 396 00:17:06,380 --> 00:17:08,560 So you're literally watching the ocean 397 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,300 as you're running, walking, climbing stairs, 398 00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:12,860 whatever it is. 399 00:17:12,860 --> 00:17:14,000 Yeah, it's very peaceful. 400 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:14,840 I love it. 401 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,020 And it's clinically proven like being by the ocean 402 00:17:17,020 --> 00:17:19,620 is beneficial for you. 403 00:17:19,620 --> 00:17:20,460 100%, yeah. 404 00:17:20,460 --> 00:17:21,660 We normally get the balcony rooms 405 00:17:21,660 --> 00:17:22,900 so that you have that little space 406 00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:25,620 and you're just watching the ocean go by. 407 00:17:25,620 --> 00:17:27,900 Well, I digress as far as cruises 408 00:17:27,900 --> 00:17:29,500 are back onto the career journey. 409 00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:31,860 When you entered the Marines 410 00:17:31,860 --> 00:17:33,320 and you started doing the bootcamp, 411 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,640 how much did the motocross and the track factor 412 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,400 into your success at that point? 413 00:17:41,060 --> 00:17:43,740 I don't really know about the motocross part of it. 414 00:17:43,740 --> 00:17:47,000 Maybe the track more than anything 415 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,300 because obviously it's a very physical, 416 00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:53,740 like you join any branch of the United States Armed Forces 417 00:17:53,740 --> 00:17:55,820 and when you go to your basic training or bootcamp, 418 00:17:55,820 --> 00:18:00,820 you're expected to be in pretty decent shape going into it, 419 00:18:00,860 --> 00:18:03,060 but it's still always a kick in the ass 420 00:18:03,060 --> 00:18:04,980 because there are other variables 421 00:18:06,340 --> 00:18:09,020 in addition to just going for a run 422 00:18:09,020 --> 00:18:11,260 or just doing burpees, pushups and sit-ups 423 00:18:11,260 --> 00:18:13,680 where you're also screaming nonsense 424 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,760 at the top of your lungs while you're getting yelled at. 425 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:18,500 So there's not really much preparation 426 00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:20,700 that you can do for it, 427 00:18:20,700 --> 00:18:25,080 but there were some pretty intense physical training, 428 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,580 individual training with a rifle 429 00:18:27,580 --> 00:18:29,900 or just holding up a water bottle 430 00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:31,880 for three, four, five minutes 431 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:33,440 with your arm parallel to the deck 432 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,260 and you have people that are like crying. 433 00:18:35,260 --> 00:18:37,540 It was pretty remarkable to see. 434 00:18:38,740 --> 00:18:40,180 Now you mentioned not deploying. 435 00:18:40,180 --> 00:18:44,580 Where did you find yourself assigned then in those six years? 436 00:18:44,580 --> 00:18:49,580 Yeah, so we did a unit deployment program through my unit 437 00:18:49,580 --> 00:18:51,780 and I actually extended my contract 438 00:18:51,780 --> 00:18:54,820 from six years to seven years just so I can attend 439 00:18:54,820 --> 00:18:58,580 because there was no way I was gonna spend six years 440 00:18:58,580 --> 00:19:00,820 in the Marine Corps or my entire time in the Marine Corps 441 00:19:00,820 --> 00:19:04,900 and not deploy anywhere, whether it was combat 442 00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:06,100 or just a training deployment 443 00:19:06,100 --> 00:19:08,500 and actually use those skills that I've learned. 444 00:19:09,820 --> 00:19:12,380 So when I found out that we had a unit deployment program 445 00:19:12,380 --> 00:19:16,860 going to Okinawa, Japan, I was like, okay, 446 00:19:16,860 --> 00:19:21,860 I'm extending my contract and it wasn't anything crazy. 447 00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:23,980 It was no combat. 448 00:19:23,980 --> 00:19:26,140 I've never been in combat before, disclaimer. 449 00:19:26,140 --> 00:19:29,180 I'm not one of those guys that pretends that I was in combat 450 00:19:29,180 --> 00:19:30,260 and saw a bunch of stuff. 451 00:19:30,260 --> 00:19:33,180 I did not get to do any of that, but yeah. 452 00:19:33,180 --> 00:19:35,780 So I was in Okinawa, Japan. 453 00:19:35,780 --> 00:19:38,260 We were at Camp Fuji, so the base of Mount Fuji 454 00:19:38,260 --> 00:19:40,980 for a little while doing joint training 455 00:19:40,980 --> 00:19:44,340 with the Japanese Defense Force and it was good. 456 00:19:45,740 --> 00:19:49,540 When Okinawa comes up, I lived in Japan for 15 months 457 00:19:49,540 --> 00:19:52,620 doing stunts years ago, but when I think of Okinawa, 458 00:19:52,620 --> 00:19:55,540 I think of what they refer to as one of the blue zones 459 00:19:55,540 --> 00:19:58,580 and whether people think that's a legitimate philosophy 460 00:19:58,580 --> 00:20:01,260 or not, there seems to be a lot of truth 461 00:20:01,260 --> 00:20:04,220 that removing the military bases, of course, 462 00:20:04,220 --> 00:20:07,140 that the native Okinawans seem to be extremely healthy 463 00:20:07,140 --> 00:20:11,580 and I think it's the highest dense, most densely populated, 464 00:20:11,580 --> 00:20:15,180 the centenarians, I think 100 year old people per capita. 465 00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:17,660 And you look at the documentary footage, 466 00:20:17,660 --> 00:20:18,860 it's not just the way they're eating. 467 00:20:18,860 --> 00:20:20,420 They're literally childlike. 468 00:20:20,420 --> 00:20:22,180 They still have that sense of play. 469 00:20:22,180 --> 00:20:24,660 Did you get any sort of kind of perspective on that 470 00:20:24,660 --> 00:20:26,660 while you were assigned there? 471 00:20:26,660 --> 00:20:29,420 Yeah, and we were very fortunate 472 00:20:29,420 --> 00:20:32,460 because we did get quite a bit of time off. 473 00:20:32,460 --> 00:20:36,180 I was over there for Christmas and New Year's 474 00:20:36,180 --> 00:20:39,060 and we got a 96, so we got four days off. 475 00:20:39,060 --> 00:20:41,700 So hopped on a train really quick 476 00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:43,980 and took a two hour ride out to Tokyo 477 00:20:43,980 --> 00:20:46,020 and got to spend both weekends there. 478 00:20:46,020 --> 00:20:50,260 And it was really cool to see the difference in the culture 479 00:20:51,260 --> 00:20:53,260 over there than in America, 480 00:20:53,260 --> 00:20:55,020 where I've kind of just been born and raised 481 00:20:55,020 --> 00:20:57,380 in this little like bubble near San Francisco. 482 00:20:57,380 --> 00:21:00,740 And it was so clean over there. 483 00:21:00,740 --> 00:21:02,500 That's one of the things that comes to mind. 484 00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:05,540 Like there was no trash whatsoever. 485 00:21:05,540 --> 00:21:07,660 Everybody, like if you had trash, 486 00:21:07,660 --> 00:21:09,260 you essentially put it in your pocket 487 00:21:09,260 --> 00:21:11,700 until you go to the next store or next restaurant 488 00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:12,660 to throw it away. 489 00:21:14,340 --> 00:21:16,060 But everybody was nice. 490 00:21:16,060 --> 00:21:19,700 It was busy, like going to Shibuya, Tokyo. 491 00:21:20,620 --> 00:21:22,220 But I thoroughly enjoyed it. 492 00:21:22,220 --> 00:21:24,380 I had a great time and I'd love to go back. 493 00:21:25,420 --> 00:21:27,740 So during this time, as you mentioned, 494 00:21:27,740 --> 00:21:30,740 you're not deployed certainly into combat. 495 00:21:30,740 --> 00:21:33,700 Were you aware of the mental health element at all 496 00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:35,020 during that period of your life 497 00:21:35,020 --> 00:21:37,220 within the Marine specifically? 498 00:21:38,180 --> 00:21:39,740 Not really, no. 499 00:21:40,860 --> 00:21:42,500 And that's kind of the common theme. 500 00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:44,820 And I think maybe it is starting to get better now. 501 00:21:44,820 --> 00:21:47,620 I know I've been out of the Marine Corps for a little bit 502 00:21:48,580 --> 00:21:50,420 and currently now I'm in the Coast Guard 503 00:21:50,420 --> 00:21:52,820 where we do discuss mental health a little bit more 504 00:21:52,820 --> 00:21:55,060 than especially my time in the Marine Corps. 505 00:21:56,660 --> 00:21:58,980 Where no, I didn't really think about, 506 00:21:58,980 --> 00:22:02,380 hey, this is my first time away from my family 507 00:22:02,380 --> 00:22:07,380 as a young adult, missing Christmas, missing New Year's, 508 00:22:09,340 --> 00:22:14,340 missing family events, and then like relationship problems 509 00:22:15,140 --> 00:22:17,460 with my friends that I was in in the platoon. 510 00:22:17,460 --> 00:22:19,540 And there's a lot that goes on. 511 00:22:20,580 --> 00:22:21,980 And it being my first deployment, 512 00:22:21,980 --> 00:22:24,860 I didn't really have any resources available to me. 513 00:22:24,860 --> 00:22:27,300 I didn't like actively look at them 514 00:22:27,300 --> 00:22:29,820 and take any proactive steps. 515 00:22:29,820 --> 00:22:32,820 I didn't even really think about my mental health whatsoever. 516 00:22:33,660 --> 00:22:35,820 So at what point did you join 517 00:22:35,820 --> 00:22:38,260 the civilian law enforcement then? 518 00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:41,020 That was 21. 519 00:22:41,020 --> 00:22:43,580 So I started the academy when I was 20 and a half. 520 00:22:43,580 --> 00:22:45,220 And in the state of California, 521 00:22:45,220 --> 00:22:47,660 you have to be 21 to be able to carry a firearm. 522 00:22:47,660 --> 00:22:51,060 So I was one of the youngest ones in my police academy. 523 00:22:51,060 --> 00:22:53,100 And that was the ultimate goal 524 00:22:53,100 --> 00:22:56,700 was to become a police officer as soon as possible 525 00:22:56,700 --> 00:23:00,260 because that's what I knew I was gonna do. 526 00:23:01,140 --> 00:23:03,540 And at the front door of that department, 527 00:23:03,540 --> 00:23:05,980 firstly, was there a mental health conversation? 528 00:23:06,980 --> 00:23:08,660 No. 529 00:23:08,660 --> 00:23:09,860 And what year was this? 530 00:23:10,820 --> 00:23:14,300 That was 2015 or 2014. 531 00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:17,900 End of 2014, early 2015 is when I graduated the academy. 532 00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:21,340 And we didn't have mental health training. 533 00:23:21,340 --> 00:23:24,420 There was no learning domain in our books 534 00:23:24,420 --> 00:23:27,020 in regards to mental health like they do now. 535 00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:30,700 And each state in the country is different 536 00:23:30,700 --> 00:23:31,900 in regards to their training 537 00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:35,700 and how many hours they have to hit for a certain topic. 538 00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:37,420 So now I believe it's eight hours 539 00:23:37,420 --> 00:23:40,260 in the state of California during the academy 540 00:23:40,260 --> 00:23:42,740 that you have to do in regards to mental health. 541 00:23:43,620 --> 00:23:47,500 I feel like it was around 2015 542 00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:50,740 that that conversation really came to the forefront 543 00:23:50,740 --> 00:23:51,740 here in Florida. 544 00:23:51,740 --> 00:23:54,820 And I think it was a chief danger field, 545 00:23:54,820 --> 00:23:58,060 he was a local, he was Italian chief, 546 00:23:58,060 --> 00:23:58,900 and he took his own life 547 00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:01,060 and he made a Facebook post right before. 548 00:24:01,060 --> 00:24:03,780 And that particular thing seemed to take off. 549 00:24:03,780 --> 00:24:04,980 I think obviously that was the platform 550 00:24:04,980 --> 00:24:07,020 a lot of people were using at the time. 551 00:24:07,020 --> 00:24:08,860 I started the podcast in 2016. 552 00:24:08,860 --> 00:24:11,420 So it seems like when you came on, 553 00:24:11,420 --> 00:24:14,700 it was right just before the beginning of this wave 554 00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:18,380 that we're seeing has kind of grown exponentially today. 555 00:24:18,380 --> 00:24:23,380 Yeah, and it's great to see that there is growth 556 00:24:23,380 --> 00:24:26,060 in regards to the mental health and mental wellness 557 00:24:26,060 --> 00:24:28,380 for not only our first responder community, 558 00:24:28,380 --> 00:24:29,980 but our military community as well. 559 00:24:29,980 --> 00:24:33,980 And especially now the last three years being involved 560 00:24:33,980 --> 00:24:38,180 in a nonprofit organization that's focusing on mental health. 561 00:24:38,180 --> 00:24:43,180 And it's a lot of people say it's starting to get better, 562 00:24:43,260 --> 00:24:47,780 which it is, but we're still way behind. 563 00:24:47,780 --> 00:24:49,100 And the times I think. 564 00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:52,060 What about fitness standards, 565 00:24:52,060 --> 00:24:55,300 combatives and the weapons side? 566 00:24:55,300 --> 00:24:57,180 When you first joined the department, 567 00:24:57,180 --> 00:25:01,300 were you compared to the nation more progressive? 568 00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:03,420 Were you a median or were you behind? 569 00:25:04,820 --> 00:25:07,260 In regards to the, you said the weapons? 570 00:25:07,260 --> 00:25:10,180 Yeah, the fitness standards, combatives, weapons, 571 00:25:10,180 --> 00:25:13,660 the kind of proactive conversations 572 00:25:13,660 --> 00:25:16,020 that we're talking also a lot more now. 573 00:25:16,020 --> 00:25:21,020 Yeah, I think we were above standard in that aspect 574 00:25:21,140 --> 00:25:23,020 in regards to everything, the firearms training, 575 00:25:23,020 --> 00:25:26,900 the defensive tactics, the domestic violence training, 576 00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:28,660 everything like the state of California 577 00:25:28,660 --> 00:25:31,580 does really good training through our peace officer 578 00:25:31,580 --> 00:25:32,780 standard and training. 579 00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:35,340 And it's tough. 580 00:25:35,340 --> 00:25:38,580 And the same thing goes for our firefighters 581 00:25:38,580 --> 00:25:40,660 and our dispatchers. 582 00:25:40,660 --> 00:25:43,380 Like we have pretty good training here, 583 00:25:43,380 --> 00:25:45,380 which I'm happy about. 584 00:25:45,380 --> 00:25:48,100 Yeah, I gotta say, I was trained in Orlando, 585 00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:51,220 worked in Hialeah just north of Miami, 586 00:25:51,220 --> 00:25:52,300 which is a great department, 587 00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:55,860 but woefully under supported and woefully underfunded. 588 00:25:56,860 --> 00:25:59,140 Then I went to Anaheim for a few years 589 00:25:59,140 --> 00:26:01,780 and was blown away because I agree. 590 00:26:01,780 --> 00:26:06,020 In my fire journey that I've had, Anaheim, California, 591 00:26:06,020 --> 00:26:08,020 was the pinnacle of my career. 592 00:26:08,020 --> 00:26:10,620 And no disrespect to the men and women 593 00:26:10,620 --> 00:26:12,860 that were phenomenal in other departments I worked for, 594 00:26:12,860 --> 00:26:15,100 but collectively as an entire department, 595 00:26:15,100 --> 00:26:17,540 it was head and shoulders above the other ones. 596 00:26:17,540 --> 00:26:20,180 So I can understand that California lens 597 00:26:20,180 --> 00:26:21,220 you're talking about. 598 00:26:22,180 --> 00:26:25,380 Yeah, and I hear it from a lot of people too. 599 00:26:25,380 --> 00:26:28,700 And you see the body worn cam videos now, 600 00:26:28,700 --> 00:26:31,940 which I think is a general thing 601 00:26:31,940 --> 00:26:33,380 across the entire country now 602 00:26:33,380 --> 00:26:35,460 where every single police officer is carrying 603 00:26:35,460 --> 00:26:38,060 a body worn camera and you have to activate it 604 00:26:38,060 --> 00:26:39,540 for every single call for service. 605 00:26:39,540 --> 00:26:42,420 And a lot of those on social media that you see 606 00:26:42,420 --> 00:26:44,100 that are in the state of California, 607 00:26:44,100 --> 00:26:47,820 you really do start to see, in my opinion, 608 00:26:47,820 --> 00:26:52,180 the difference of the training, the comfort level, 609 00:26:52,180 --> 00:26:54,900 the staying calm under pressure, 610 00:26:54,900 --> 00:26:59,140 but then also the use of force side of things as well 611 00:26:59,140 --> 00:27:01,340 in California kind of differs from other states. 612 00:27:01,340 --> 00:27:04,420 So in that aspect, I'm fortunate to be a police officer 613 00:27:04,420 --> 00:27:05,820 in California. 614 00:27:05,820 --> 00:27:07,500 Now, why do you think that is? 615 00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:09,820 I mean, obviously the learning curve, for example, 616 00:27:09,820 --> 00:27:13,820 of LAPD, with the violence that that city has endured 617 00:27:13,820 --> 00:27:16,340 for several decades now, 618 00:27:16,340 --> 00:27:19,140 has definitely pushed the standard. 619 00:27:19,140 --> 00:27:20,660 And obviously you have the other side, 620 00:27:20,660 --> 00:27:22,140 rampart scandals and that kind of thing 621 00:27:22,140 --> 00:27:24,540 that's also moving the needle. 622 00:27:24,540 --> 00:27:26,500 Why do you think the state of California 623 00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:31,260 has been able to kind of accelerate that side 624 00:27:31,260 --> 00:27:33,700 a little bit more than some of the other states? 625 00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:36,220 That's a good question. 626 00:27:36,220 --> 00:27:37,380 That is a good question. 627 00:27:37,380 --> 00:27:40,660 Yeah, I think maybe because the Rodney King 628 00:27:40,660 --> 00:27:43,780 definitely with LAPD kind of set the standard for that, 629 00:27:43,780 --> 00:27:46,420 where it was like, okay, we are never doing this again, 630 00:27:46,420 --> 00:27:47,580 because that was bad. 631 00:27:49,140 --> 00:27:52,620 But I don't really have a solid answer for you on that one. 632 00:27:52,620 --> 00:27:55,060 I don't know the whole, the politics behind it 633 00:27:55,060 --> 00:27:56,620 or whoever runs things where they're like, 634 00:27:56,620 --> 00:27:58,620 hey, I want super high standards, 635 00:27:58,620 --> 00:28:03,260 but ultimately I'm pretty happy with where we're at. 636 00:28:04,700 --> 00:28:08,380 Now, I wanna walk through obviously to the point 637 00:28:08,380 --> 00:28:10,300 where you decided to become part of the solution 638 00:28:10,300 --> 00:28:11,820 when it came to the mental health side, 639 00:28:11,820 --> 00:28:14,620 but in your career, just in general, 640 00:28:14,620 --> 00:28:15,580 we talk about your dad, 641 00:28:15,580 --> 00:28:18,980 what about some of the career calls that you've had so far? 642 00:28:22,740 --> 00:28:27,740 One that comes to mind is a call for service at a KFC. 643 00:28:29,260 --> 00:28:32,620 And it's kind of in like a little bit of a ghetto area 644 00:28:32,620 --> 00:28:35,340 where it's a lot of narcotics are being used, 645 00:28:35,340 --> 00:28:37,340 a lot of firearms, stolen vehicles. 646 00:28:37,340 --> 00:28:40,580 And you kind of see like the crime rate 647 00:28:40,580 --> 00:28:42,020 in that area is pretty high. 648 00:28:42,020 --> 00:28:45,540 And it was a pretty busy night 649 00:28:45,540 --> 00:28:48,060 and my buddy and I got a call for service 650 00:28:48,060 --> 00:28:50,020 and we're on the complete opposite side of town 651 00:28:50,020 --> 00:28:53,620 where it was a gentleman inside of the KFC 652 00:28:53,620 --> 00:28:56,700 waving a sword around with a bunch of patrons 653 00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:58,420 inside of the business. 654 00:28:58,420 --> 00:29:03,420 And I was pretty young in addition to my partner, 655 00:29:04,020 --> 00:29:06,220 we were young, we were both on probation 656 00:29:06,220 --> 00:29:08,820 and we just got released to the weekend graveyard team. 657 00:29:08,820 --> 00:29:11,980 And of course we hear this call come out 658 00:29:11,980 --> 00:29:14,060 and after doing the job for a few years, 659 00:29:14,060 --> 00:29:17,180 you're like, okay, like I don't need to drive 660 00:29:17,180 --> 00:29:19,140 like Mach 3 with my hair on fire, 661 00:29:19,140 --> 00:29:20,460 like I'm in a blue angel, you know, 662 00:29:20,460 --> 00:29:22,700 like I can get there safely, 663 00:29:22,700 --> 00:29:24,340 make sure I stop at all the red lights. 664 00:29:24,340 --> 00:29:26,940 Well, that did not apply for me and my buddy. 665 00:29:26,940 --> 00:29:29,580 We did not learn that part of being a police officer yet. 666 00:29:29,580 --> 00:29:32,380 So you think you turn on the lights and siren 667 00:29:32,380 --> 00:29:34,060 and you are just good to go, right? 668 00:29:34,060 --> 00:29:38,260 So lights and siren come on, we dispatch ourselves 669 00:29:38,260 --> 00:29:40,540 and while we're in route to the call, 670 00:29:40,540 --> 00:29:43,340 we're going through like the heavily populated areas 671 00:29:43,340 --> 00:29:47,380 within the city, not stopping for red lights whatsoever 672 00:29:47,380 --> 00:29:50,300 and just literally just going right through them. 673 00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:52,700 I'll touch on that part later 674 00:29:52,700 --> 00:29:54,860 because we got kind of in trouble for that. 675 00:29:55,940 --> 00:29:58,500 So end up pulling up to the call, 676 00:29:58,500 --> 00:29:59,500 get into the parking lot 677 00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:03,020 and seeing the individual walking towards us, 678 00:30:03,020 --> 00:30:07,460 appear to be having some sort of psychiatric episode 679 00:30:07,460 --> 00:30:09,980 and or under the influence of narcotics. 680 00:30:09,980 --> 00:30:13,340 And he literally had a samurai sword in his hand 681 00:30:13,340 --> 00:30:15,260 and was walking towards us. 682 00:30:15,260 --> 00:30:16,700 The sword was in his right hand 683 00:30:16,700 --> 00:30:18,220 and he had it over his shoulder. 684 00:30:18,220 --> 00:30:20,340 So it looked like it was wound up a little bit 685 00:30:20,340 --> 00:30:25,340 and immediately get out of the car, get behind some cover 686 00:30:25,540 --> 00:30:27,100 and we're drawing our firearms. 687 00:30:27,100 --> 00:30:28,940 So it's just me and my buddy at this point 688 00:30:28,940 --> 00:30:31,900 and we're giving him commands to get on the ground 689 00:30:31,900 --> 00:30:34,060 and this is where our training kind of kicked in, 690 00:30:34,060 --> 00:30:36,300 where my buddy gave him commands 691 00:30:36,300 --> 00:30:39,500 and then I was just like super focused on where he was, 692 00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:42,660 if he attacked us, how many times I would have to shoot, 693 00:30:42,660 --> 00:30:44,660 our backdrop and where the patrons were 694 00:30:44,660 --> 00:30:45,860 inside of the business. 695 00:30:47,540 --> 00:30:50,020 And ultimately he kind of kept walking towards us, 696 00:30:50,020 --> 00:30:51,420 kept walking towards us 697 00:30:51,420 --> 00:30:53,980 and not listened to any of our commands whatsoever. 698 00:30:53,980 --> 00:30:57,620 And it got to the point where I had my finger on the trigger 699 00:30:57,620 --> 00:31:00,340 and I started taking out the slack in my trigger, 700 00:31:00,340 --> 00:31:01,660 where I hit the wall in the trigger 701 00:31:01,660 --> 00:31:03,940 where I was ready to break off a shot if I needed to. 702 00:31:03,940 --> 00:31:08,100 And in my head and my buddy told me this at the same time 703 00:31:09,380 --> 00:31:11,820 or at a later time, but he had the same thought in his head 704 00:31:11,820 --> 00:31:16,620 where he was like, if this person makes another three steps, 705 00:31:16,620 --> 00:31:18,100 we're using deadly force. 706 00:31:18,100 --> 00:31:20,020 This is kind of where it comes into. 707 00:31:20,020 --> 00:31:22,180 And he took two steps and then he dropped the knife 708 00:31:22,180 --> 00:31:24,900 and we were able to take him into custody. 709 00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:29,900 So that was one of my crazy calls as a younger officer 710 00:31:29,900 --> 00:31:31,700 that when someone asked me like, 711 00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:33,540 what's your like kind of career call, 712 00:31:33,540 --> 00:31:35,660 that's pretty much it, but it was close. 713 00:31:35,660 --> 00:31:39,540 And then we're winding back to driving lights and siren 714 00:31:39,540 --> 00:31:41,140 thinking that you're the greatest thing in the world 715 00:31:41,140 --> 00:31:42,500 and yet you can do no wrong. 716 00:31:43,420 --> 00:31:45,780 My buddy and I were playing follow the leader 717 00:31:45,780 --> 00:31:48,580 where I went through the stoplight first 718 00:31:48,580 --> 00:31:50,100 in this heavily populated area, 719 00:31:50,100 --> 00:31:52,260 probably at like 50 miles an hour. 720 00:31:52,260 --> 00:31:56,380 And my sergeant at the time was stopped at that light 721 00:31:56,380 --> 00:31:59,580 ready to clear that intersection to go to the call. 722 00:31:59,580 --> 00:32:02,060 And he said, he just like saw us drive by 723 00:32:02,060 --> 00:32:05,340 and was like whoosh, whoosh, like it was NASCAR. 724 00:32:05,340 --> 00:32:07,060 So he pulls up to the call and he's like, 725 00:32:07,060 --> 00:32:08,780 hey, good job guys, good job. 726 00:32:08,780 --> 00:32:11,180 But if you ever drive that fast again or I see you, 727 00:32:11,180 --> 00:32:12,260 I will have your ass. 728 00:32:12,260 --> 00:32:14,580 And we're like, copy that sergeant, like copy that. 729 00:32:14,580 --> 00:32:16,940 So one of the career calls. 730 00:32:18,140 --> 00:32:21,660 That is something that, obviously I think is misunderstood 731 00:32:21,660 --> 00:32:23,940 by young first responders. 732 00:32:23,940 --> 00:32:26,940 And as you do the training, I mean, in the fire service, 733 00:32:26,940 --> 00:32:30,300 we have the, oh my God, I've forgotten the acronym now. 734 00:32:30,300 --> 00:32:33,500 But anyway, we do the ambulance training. 735 00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:35,180 We do, when I was in Hialeah, 736 00:32:35,180 --> 00:32:37,460 we actually did the skid pan and the cruiser 737 00:32:37,460 --> 00:32:38,300 and all that stuff too. 738 00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:41,340 And then later in my career, they'd have an SUV 739 00:32:41,340 --> 00:32:44,260 that had these little kind of wheel racks 740 00:32:44,260 --> 00:32:46,780 on each of the wheels and it would kind of pick up the car 741 00:32:46,780 --> 00:32:48,500 and therefore simulate sliding. 742 00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:50,500 So you did a lot of driver training and then you had engine 743 00:32:50,500 --> 00:32:52,980 and you had the tiller truck and all these other things. 744 00:32:52,980 --> 00:32:55,580 But first see that understanding that you're asking 745 00:32:55,580 --> 00:32:57,500 permission to go through that red light 746 00:32:57,500 --> 00:32:58,740 that you are coming to a stop, 747 00:32:58,740 --> 00:33:00,580 no matter what you're responding to. 748 00:33:02,020 --> 00:33:04,180 But secondly, when we're not responding, 749 00:33:04,180 --> 00:33:07,100 and I find this in law enforcement, 750 00:33:07,100 --> 00:33:09,620 and I wanna get to this topic in a second, 751 00:33:09,620 --> 00:33:13,100 using your blinker, not riding the ass of the car in front, 752 00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:16,700 because I'd locally, I will call out local police here, 753 00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:18,780 they drive like fucking asshole sometimes. 754 00:33:18,780 --> 00:33:21,180 I'm like, you are supposed to be the example 755 00:33:21,180 --> 00:33:23,260 for especially these young drivers. 756 00:33:23,260 --> 00:33:25,100 And if you're not using your blinker and you're not, 757 00:33:25,100 --> 00:33:27,540 I'm talking not going cold, I'm talking normal, 758 00:33:27,540 --> 00:33:29,940 then how the hell can you tell anyone else 759 00:33:29,940 --> 00:33:31,020 that they shouldn't be doing this? 760 00:33:31,020 --> 00:33:34,740 And until we fix the standards of driving in this country, 761 00:33:34,740 --> 00:33:37,580 we're gonna continue having all these deaths on the road. 762 00:33:38,660 --> 00:33:39,740 Yeah, I agree. 763 00:33:39,740 --> 00:33:41,860 And that's where a lot of our complaints come into play, 764 00:33:41,860 --> 00:33:45,460 where it's like, hey, I just saw a cruiser 46 drive by me 765 00:33:46,380 --> 00:33:47,700 and then cut me off. 766 00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:49,540 And it's a simple phone call to the department 767 00:33:49,540 --> 00:33:52,180 and make a complaint with a supervisor where, 768 00:33:52,180 --> 00:33:53,380 I mean, you're literally, 769 00:33:53,380 --> 00:33:56,060 you're in a black and white police car sometimes, 770 00:33:56,060 --> 00:33:58,660 all black, whatever, but it says, 771 00:33:58,660 --> 00:34:00,900 New York Police Department on the side, 772 00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:02,860 there's no getting away from it. 773 00:34:02,860 --> 00:34:06,300 But there are definitely a lot of officers 774 00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:08,700 who are injured responding to calls 775 00:34:08,700 --> 00:34:09,860 or just driving normally. 776 00:34:09,860 --> 00:34:13,140 And I will say to all my ambulance drivers out there, 777 00:34:13,140 --> 00:34:15,060 you are the best code three drivers ever 778 00:34:15,060 --> 00:34:17,660 because I've never really responded 779 00:34:17,660 --> 00:34:21,740 to an ambulance traffic collision while driving code three. 780 00:34:21,740 --> 00:34:23,540 You don't really hear about it that much. 781 00:34:23,540 --> 00:34:25,820 And they come to complete stops 782 00:34:25,820 --> 00:34:27,900 at every single intersection 783 00:34:27,900 --> 00:34:29,940 and they clear left and right each lane. 784 00:34:29,940 --> 00:34:32,300 And then they proceed where cops, 785 00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:34,700 you kind of think that you're the greatest thing 786 00:34:34,700 --> 00:34:36,580 in the world and that you're untouchable, 787 00:34:36,580 --> 00:34:39,020 which is kind of correlates to mental health here. 788 00:34:39,020 --> 00:34:40,260 And I can discuss that later, 789 00:34:40,260 --> 00:34:42,500 but where you think you're untouchable, 790 00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:44,140 where you're like, oh, no, whatever, I'm good. 791 00:34:44,140 --> 00:34:46,220 I got blue and red lights on the top of the siren 792 00:34:46,220 --> 00:34:50,500 and you start to see some bad accidents. 793 00:34:50,500 --> 00:34:52,540 Absolutely, well, what was really interesting 794 00:34:52,540 --> 00:34:54,820 about your resume is you are also 795 00:34:54,820 --> 00:34:57,860 in major accident investigation. 796 00:34:57,860 --> 00:34:59,340 I wrote a book three years ago 797 00:34:59,340 --> 00:35:02,180 and one of the chapters was basically deaths on the road. 798 00:35:02,180 --> 00:35:04,340 And every chapter was like a story of my career. 799 00:35:04,340 --> 00:35:07,060 And then it would go into kind of lessons learned takeaways 800 00:35:07,060 --> 00:35:10,220 and what I've learned from the real experts in the world. 801 00:35:10,220 --> 00:35:14,700 But when you start exploring the accidents in America, 802 00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:17,060 I forget, I always forget, I need to look it up. 803 00:35:17,060 --> 00:35:21,420 But it's either five or six million accidents a year, 804 00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:26,260 40,000 people die on our roads every single year. 805 00:35:26,260 --> 00:35:29,780 And then obviously you don't have to be an expert 806 00:35:29,780 --> 00:35:31,780 to figure out that must mean hundreds of thousands 807 00:35:31,780 --> 00:35:35,620 of people left with life altering injuries per year. 808 00:35:35,620 --> 00:35:38,140 Yet I've been here over 20 years now. 809 00:35:38,140 --> 00:35:42,620 I have never seen a governing agency, a politician 810 00:35:42,620 --> 00:35:45,340 or anyone talk about changing the way 811 00:35:45,340 --> 00:35:48,660 that we educate our drivers so we can make our roads safer. 812 00:35:48,660 --> 00:35:52,380 We just put up more speed bumps, more signs, more, 813 00:35:52,380 --> 00:35:54,620 oh, so-and-so died here with some flowers, 814 00:35:54,620 --> 00:35:58,540 but we don't seem to get the proactive element of why, 815 00:35:58,540 --> 00:36:01,500 why do we have, I think it's something like a 10th 816 00:36:01,500 --> 00:36:03,620 of the deaths in the UK, something like that. 817 00:36:03,620 --> 00:36:07,020 It's a fraction and that's again per capita. 818 00:36:07,020 --> 00:36:08,900 So that's apples to apples. 819 00:36:08,900 --> 00:36:11,820 So with you having this kind of background 820 00:36:11,820 --> 00:36:15,580 of investigating specifically the roads themselves, 821 00:36:15,580 --> 00:36:18,820 what's your take of the overall death toll 822 00:36:18,820 --> 00:36:21,660 and have you had any thoughts about how we change that? 823 00:36:23,380 --> 00:36:26,820 Yeah, and it is crazy to see how many collisions 824 00:36:26,820 --> 00:36:27,660 are out there. 825 00:36:27,660 --> 00:36:31,460 Now we see a lot of vehicles with dash cam videos. 826 00:36:31,460 --> 00:36:34,180 So in additions to video surveillance footage, 827 00:36:34,180 --> 00:36:36,740 which are on the buildings or the red light cameras 828 00:36:36,740 --> 00:36:38,300 that you have at major intersections 829 00:36:38,300 --> 00:36:41,740 and you see some of these collisions 830 00:36:41,740 --> 00:36:46,380 and it's crazy the amount of people 831 00:36:46,380 --> 00:36:48,380 that are on their cell phones. 832 00:36:48,380 --> 00:36:49,740 I think that's one of the big things 833 00:36:49,740 --> 00:36:51,900 and I'm guilty of it, trust me, 834 00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:55,260 guilty of being on my phone while I'm driving, 835 00:36:55,260 --> 00:36:58,340 even in a patrol car, there are times where 836 00:36:58,340 --> 00:37:00,260 we're allowed to use our phones while we're driving 837 00:37:00,260 --> 00:37:01,540 if it's for work purposes, 838 00:37:01,540 --> 00:37:04,980 but I still feel bad when someone pulls up next to me 839 00:37:04,980 --> 00:37:07,360 and I'm in a patrol car and I'm on my cell phone 840 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,460 and they look at me, I just feel like, 841 00:37:09,460 --> 00:37:11,660 I just wanna like crumble up in a ball and be like, 842 00:37:11,660 --> 00:37:13,740 I promise it's work related, you know? 843 00:37:15,700 --> 00:37:17,220 And then also you're on the computer 844 00:37:17,220 --> 00:37:18,580 and you're driving with your left knee 845 00:37:18,580 --> 00:37:21,500 and you're leaning over and using the computer 846 00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:25,020 to read a call or type something, it's not good. 847 00:37:25,020 --> 00:37:30,020 But yeah, I would honestly say like my two big things are, 848 00:37:31,580 --> 00:37:34,440 we have to figure out some way that when you turn 849 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,060 your vehicle on, your cell phone shuts off. 850 00:37:38,060 --> 00:37:42,580 That's my big thing because I could easily go work 851 00:37:42,580 --> 00:37:47,280 a traffic detail and I can get 25 cell phone citations 852 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:48,540 in one 10 hour shift. 853 00:37:48,540 --> 00:37:51,440 Like it's easy to the point where you cannot, 854 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,500 you can't even finish out writing a ticket 855 00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:56,340 and then there's already two other vehicles that passed you 856 00:37:56,340 --> 00:37:57,380 that are on their cell phone. 857 00:37:57,380 --> 00:38:00,460 So in my opinion, there needs to be something 858 00:38:00,460 --> 00:38:04,020 that shuts off your cell phone 859 00:38:04,020 --> 00:38:05,500 the moment your vehicle starts. 860 00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:08,620 You know, with Apple and all these iPhone 25s 861 00:38:08,620 --> 00:38:11,280 that they're at, with all this technology that we have, 862 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,100 there has to be some sort of solution to that. 863 00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:15,580 And that's my number one. 864 00:38:15,580 --> 00:38:20,580 And then number two, I think there should be a governor 865 00:38:20,580 --> 00:38:22,620 on some of the vehicles in my opinion, 866 00:38:22,620 --> 00:38:27,420 where we can't see vehicles on the freeway going over 90, 867 00:38:27,420 --> 00:38:30,340 you know, like there's gotta be something in regards to that. 868 00:38:30,340 --> 00:38:31,540 So those are my two. 869 00:38:31,540 --> 00:38:33,880 Well, those are both asking technology 870 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,140 to fix the problem though. 871 00:38:35,140 --> 00:38:40,140 What I observed in the UK, the driving test is so hard 872 00:38:40,820 --> 00:38:43,460 that usually people have to do it two or three times 873 00:38:43,460 --> 00:38:44,340 before they pass it. 874 00:38:44,340 --> 00:38:46,260 You know, there's this huge written test, 875 00:38:46,260 --> 00:38:47,420 but then the skills test, 876 00:38:47,420 --> 00:38:48,940 if you have to do it near perfectly 877 00:38:48,940 --> 00:38:50,860 because you have been practicing this, 878 00:38:50,860 --> 00:38:52,340 you should be amazing at it. 879 00:38:52,340 --> 00:38:55,380 So, you know, roundabouts and reversing around corners 880 00:38:55,380 --> 00:38:57,180 and hill starts and all the things, 881 00:38:57,180 --> 00:38:59,460 and you know, usually in a stick shift as well 882 00:38:59,460 --> 00:39:00,900 in a manual car. 883 00:39:00,900 --> 00:39:03,420 And so they just set the bar extremely high 884 00:39:03,420 --> 00:39:06,020 because we have narrow little roads, no medians, 885 00:39:06,020 --> 00:39:07,780 you know, country lanes, you know, 886 00:39:07,780 --> 00:39:09,300 it's very, very hilly in that country. 887 00:39:09,300 --> 00:39:13,540 So they're teaching us to be able to drive, you know, 888 00:39:13,540 --> 00:39:15,660 safely enough to be on a road, you know, 889 00:39:15,660 --> 00:39:17,980 and it's 17 is when we get our license as well. 890 00:39:17,980 --> 00:39:20,220 So then I compare what I witnessed 891 00:39:20,220 --> 00:39:22,480 when I took my Florida driving test, 892 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,660 where I genuinely hand on my heart, 893 00:39:24,660 --> 00:39:25,780 thought it was the warmup, 894 00:39:25,780 --> 00:39:27,740 and then we were about to do the real test 895 00:39:27,740 --> 00:39:29,900 and they say, congratulations, you passed. 896 00:39:29,900 --> 00:39:32,460 Around, you know, literally a parking lot, 897 00:39:32,460 --> 00:39:35,300 few suburban neighborhoods, and then came back. 898 00:39:35,300 --> 00:39:37,580 And I'm like, what in the fuck was that? 899 00:39:37,580 --> 00:39:40,620 You know, and again, it's just simply, you know, 900 00:39:40,620 --> 00:39:43,180 you've been held, it's like the fire service, like Anaheim, 901 00:39:43,180 --> 00:39:45,860 when you've been held at a high standard, 902 00:39:45,860 --> 00:39:47,180 you never wanna go backwards. 903 00:39:47,180 --> 00:39:48,880 And this was like way backwards. 904 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:50,740 Then fast forward, I become a firefighter 905 00:39:50,740 --> 00:39:54,280 and see death after death, after death, after death. 906 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:55,600 And you're like, this is, you know, 907 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,740 they say insanity is doing the same thing, you know, 908 00:39:57,740 --> 00:39:59,340 expecting different results. 909 00:39:59,340 --> 00:40:00,880 In 22 years in America, 910 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,180 I've never seen any even discussion 911 00:40:03,180 --> 00:40:05,060 about making our tests harder, 912 00:40:05,060 --> 00:40:08,300 or maybe even raising the age a little bit. 913 00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:10,740 So from the human perspective, 914 00:40:10,740 --> 00:40:13,140 from the test standard perspective, 915 00:40:13,140 --> 00:40:16,500 what are your thoughts on, you know, 916 00:40:16,500 --> 00:40:19,180 changing the way that we teach, actually teaching, 917 00:40:19,180 --> 00:40:21,340 because I mean, we seem to be reactive. 918 00:40:21,340 --> 00:40:24,080 Here's how to operate this machine, 919 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,140 but we don't seem to teach why use a blinker, 920 00:40:26,140 --> 00:40:28,420 why you actually, you know, hold distance, 921 00:40:28,420 --> 00:40:30,700 how the weather changes the way you do. 922 00:40:30,700 --> 00:40:32,700 You know, in sharing the road 923 00:40:32,700 --> 00:40:34,980 rather than trying to win the race on the road, 924 00:40:34,980 --> 00:40:37,840 all those seem to kind of be lost on a lot of people. 925 00:40:38,740 --> 00:40:43,300 Yeah, and I think it's a generational thing, honestly, 926 00:40:43,300 --> 00:40:44,980 where we're such in a rush. 927 00:40:44,980 --> 00:40:48,780 Everybody is in a rush where you're coming up 928 00:40:48,780 --> 00:40:50,540 to a four-way lighted intersection 929 00:40:50,540 --> 00:40:54,100 and you see it turn yellow and you're like, nope, 930 00:40:54,100 --> 00:40:55,260 hard on the accelerator, 931 00:40:55,260 --> 00:40:58,060 and you're trying to go through and like taking the risks. 932 00:40:58,060 --> 00:41:02,500 But I think something that I experienced in high school 933 00:41:02,500 --> 00:41:04,900 where the local California Highway Patrol 934 00:41:04,900 --> 00:41:08,900 did avoid the 23 in regards to driving 935 00:41:08,900 --> 00:41:10,740 under the influence investigations, 936 00:41:10,740 --> 00:41:12,780 and they came out to our high school 937 00:41:12,780 --> 00:41:17,780 and put on an education block where they set up two vehicles 938 00:41:17,780 --> 00:41:20,260 with moderate damage to them, 939 00:41:20,260 --> 00:41:23,940 and they actually did like the radio dispatch 940 00:41:23,940 --> 00:41:25,660 of what a collision would sound like, 941 00:41:25,660 --> 00:41:28,540 and then it was, hey, now this is the process 942 00:41:28,540 --> 00:41:31,660 of what the first responder community has to go through 943 00:41:31,660 --> 00:41:33,860 to notify your family and your friends 944 00:41:33,860 --> 00:41:37,980 that it was a fatality traffic collision 945 00:41:37,980 --> 00:41:39,140 or a serious injury 946 00:41:39,140 --> 00:41:41,740 where now you find yourself in the hospital. 947 00:41:41,740 --> 00:41:45,600 So, and I really, that hit home with a lot of us 948 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:46,980 because you know it, 949 00:41:46,980 --> 00:41:48,740 right when you're starting to get your license, 950 00:41:48,740 --> 00:41:51,160 you know, you start drinking in high school 951 00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:52,700 and you start to combine the two 952 00:41:52,700 --> 00:41:56,220 or you're doing risky stuff and you're always on your phone. 953 00:41:56,220 --> 00:41:59,220 Like, I think we need more of that going on 954 00:41:59,220 --> 00:42:01,460 and like throughout the process 955 00:42:01,460 --> 00:42:03,240 of getting your permit and your license, 956 00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:05,780 you need to be taking some more classes. 957 00:42:05,780 --> 00:42:09,060 You need to hear, like read some police reports 958 00:42:09,060 --> 00:42:11,280 of some fatality traffic collisions 959 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:13,940 or see some videos and be like, it is not worth it. 960 00:42:14,820 --> 00:42:15,660 That's it. 961 00:42:15,660 --> 00:42:18,740 I would say more education for going out to the high schools 962 00:42:18,740 --> 00:42:20,800 and still like every few years, 963 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,620 like going out to a college maybe 964 00:42:22,620 --> 00:42:24,660 and putting on a demonstration. 965 00:42:24,660 --> 00:42:25,540 Yeah, we did it. 966 00:42:25,540 --> 00:42:27,020 I think I did one in California 967 00:42:27,020 --> 00:42:29,220 and one in Orange County if my memory serves me right. 968 00:42:29,220 --> 00:42:31,740 But yeah, we were basically extricating 969 00:42:31,740 --> 00:42:34,020 what ended up being one of their student friends 970 00:42:34,020 --> 00:42:36,180 that was dead, fake dead, you know, 971 00:42:36,180 --> 00:42:37,440 and putting the sheet over them. 972 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,220 And, you know, some of the people watching would be in tears. 973 00:42:40,220 --> 00:42:43,580 So obviously, you know, it hit home. 974 00:42:43,580 --> 00:42:47,280 But the other thing that I think is lost 975 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:48,820 is kindness and compassion. 976 00:42:48,820 --> 00:42:51,780 If you think about kindness while you're driving, 977 00:42:51,780 --> 00:42:54,220 I'm gonna use my blinker, my indicator, 978 00:42:54,220 --> 00:42:55,960 because I just wanna let the person behind me know 979 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,300 at some point, I'm gonna be putting on my brakes 980 00:42:57,300 --> 00:42:58,740 and turning into this road. 981 00:42:58,740 --> 00:43:01,900 I'm gonna be kind and I don't ride the ass of the person 982 00:43:01,900 --> 00:43:04,520 because God forbid a kid walks out in front of them 983 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:05,760 and they wouldn't be able to stop. 984 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:07,100 And then I rammed in the back of them 985 00:43:07,100 --> 00:43:09,080 and then they crushed that kid. 986 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,940 Like when you actually put that thought into people, 987 00:43:11,940 --> 00:43:15,660 I think that would then explain a lot of the whys. 988 00:43:15,660 --> 00:43:18,160 But if you just like, oh, left, right, forward, you know, 989 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,220 stop, that's all you have to do, off you go. 990 00:43:20,220 --> 00:43:22,260 Here's your keys to your death machine. 991 00:43:22,260 --> 00:43:25,540 We're missing the reason why, for example, 992 00:43:25,540 --> 00:43:27,440 our freeways are a complete cluster 993 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,760 because people will sit in the outside lane 994 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,380 side by side with another car and everyone gets frustrated 995 00:43:32,380 --> 00:43:34,620 now they're having to cut around the wrong side. 996 00:43:34,620 --> 00:43:36,700 It's just think about, rather than you, 997 00:43:36,700 --> 00:43:38,880 think about other people. 998 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,420 You know, my actions gonna help or hinder everyone else. 999 00:43:42,420 --> 00:43:45,260 But in this divisive society 1000 00:43:45,260 --> 00:43:46,740 that we found ourselves at the moment, 1001 00:43:46,740 --> 00:43:49,180 we're getting further and further from, 1002 00:43:49,180 --> 00:43:50,820 oh, I'm worried about other people. 1003 00:43:50,820 --> 00:43:52,500 You know, we're told, fuck everyone else. 1004 00:43:52,500 --> 00:43:54,540 There are different political, you know, 1005 00:43:55,780 --> 00:43:57,260 party or whatever it is. 1006 00:43:57,260 --> 00:43:59,860 And this division I think is even hurting us on the roads 1007 00:43:59,860 --> 00:44:01,060 where it's kind of me first, 1008 00:44:01,060 --> 00:44:03,580 fuck everyone else in some people's eyes. 1009 00:44:03,580 --> 00:44:04,420 Yeah. 1010 00:44:04,420 --> 00:44:06,780 And especially over here, and I don't know how it is 1011 00:44:06,780 --> 00:44:09,620 where you are, other parts of the country 1012 00:44:09,620 --> 00:44:11,940 where we're seeing a lot of road rage incidents as well. 1013 00:44:11,940 --> 00:44:14,740 So something super minor turns in from, 1014 00:44:14,740 --> 00:44:16,560 hey, this person cut me off in the freeway. 1015 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,180 And now we're in the in and out parking lot. 1016 00:44:20,180 --> 00:44:22,140 And he just pulled a firearm on me. 1017 00:44:22,140 --> 00:44:24,860 Or there are a lot of shootings as a result 1018 00:44:24,860 --> 00:44:25,820 of road rage incidents. 1019 00:44:25,820 --> 00:44:29,060 So I couldn't agree with you more. 1020 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,860 So what about before we get into some other topics, 1021 00:44:32,860 --> 00:44:36,260 you said you should switch from Marine Corps to Coast Guard. 1022 00:44:36,260 --> 00:44:37,980 And I know you're in the kind of law enforcement role 1023 00:44:37,980 --> 00:44:38,820 in that too. 1024 00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:41,900 And you said, is it maritime law enforcement? 1025 00:44:41,900 --> 00:44:43,300 Is that right? 1026 00:44:43,300 --> 00:44:48,300 Yeah, so it's maritime, why am I drawing a blank 1027 00:44:48,420 --> 00:44:49,260 on it right now? 1028 00:44:49,260 --> 00:44:51,260 It's essentially like being a law enforcement 1029 00:44:51,260 --> 00:44:52,740 for the military. 1030 00:44:52,740 --> 00:44:54,100 Enforcement specialist. 1031 00:44:54,100 --> 00:44:54,940 Yeah, there we go. 1032 00:44:54,940 --> 00:44:59,860 I'm like, why did I just draw the biggest blank? 1033 00:45:01,340 --> 00:45:03,580 Yeah, so when I got out of the Marine Corps, 1034 00:45:04,820 --> 00:45:06,320 I didn't know what I was gonna do. 1035 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:07,540 So I kind of took a year off 1036 00:45:07,540 --> 00:45:10,740 and I was either gonna go Air Force Security Forces. 1037 00:45:10,740 --> 00:45:12,860 And it's kind of similar to being a police officer there 1038 00:45:12,860 --> 00:45:17,080 as well or Coast Guard maritime enforcement specialist. 1039 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:18,340 I got it right that time. 1040 00:45:19,340 --> 00:45:21,500 And my father was actually in the Coast Guard 1041 00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:23,940 for a few years before transitioning 1042 00:45:23,940 --> 00:45:25,040 to the United States Army. 1043 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,040 And I've always heard good things about the Coast Guard. 1044 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,180 And even though some people like, 1045 00:45:31,180 --> 00:45:32,580 they don't really know what the Coast Guard does 1046 00:45:32,580 --> 00:45:34,620 or anything, when I did more research into it 1047 00:45:34,620 --> 00:45:36,700 and met some of the people, I was like, wow, 1048 00:45:36,700 --> 00:45:40,180 like the people generally care about you. 1049 00:45:40,180 --> 00:45:42,660 Like you actually do get really good training 1050 00:45:43,900 --> 00:45:45,620 and like their mission type, 1051 00:45:45,620 --> 00:45:47,420 like for me, it seemed pretty cool. 1052 00:45:47,420 --> 00:45:52,040 So I decided to join the Reserve Unit in San Francisco 1053 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,380 where I'm currently stationed at. 1054 00:45:53,380 --> 00:45:58,100 And so I'm a part of the Shoreside Security Emblem 1055 00:45:58,100 --> 00:46:00,140 and Emeline element. 1056 00:46:00,140 --> 00:46:02,180 Now I can't talk anymore. 1057 00:46:02,180 --> 00:46:04,860 Where we do a lot of like the ID checks to come on base, 1058 00:46:04,860 --> 00:46:07,700 vehicle and personnel searches. 1059 00:46:07,700 --> 00:46:09,340 You do point defense missions. 1060 00:46:09,340 --> 00:46:12,220 So you'll have a 50 caliber machine gun 1061 00:46:12,220 --> 00:46:15,100 or a 240 machine gun on a post. 1062 00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:17,700 And essentially you have your area of responsibility 1063 00:46:17,700 --> 00:46:20,140 that you're working on and trying to protect 1064 00:46:20,140 --> 00:46:21,140 a high value asset. 1065 00:46:21,140 --> 00:46:24,420 And then our water side division is out in the water. 1066 00:46:24,420 --> 00:46:28,240 So they'll intercept a vessel or any sort of threat 1067 00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:30,140 before we actually do have to engage. 1068 00:46:30,140 --> 00:46:35,100 So when I learned about like the mission set 1069 00:46:35,100 --> 00:46:36,660 and everything with the Coast Guard, 1070 00:46:36,660 --> 00:46:39,860 I was like, okay, this is my choice. 1071 00:46:39,860 --> 00:46:41,700 I saw, cause I got a lot of friends now 1072 00:46:41,700 --> 00:46:45,220 that are SEALs that the SEAL community just lost to, 1073 00:46:45,220 --> 00:46:47,420 I believe at least they were still looking for them 1074 00:46:47,420 --> 00:46:51,400 that were doing some sort of kind of ship boarding 1075 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:52,960 out in the Middle East somewhere. 1076 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,500 And that's absolutely heartbreaking. 1077 00:46:55,500 --> 00:46:58,100 Yeah, it's sad. 1078 00:46:58,100 --> 00:47:00,980 I know, so one of my cousins, a Navy SEAL, 1079 00:47:00,980 --> 00:47:02,740 he just kind of got into his team. 1080 00:47:02,740 --> 00:47:05,980 And so I was talking to him a little bit and it's sad 1081 00:47:05,980 --> 00:47:09,220 but it really shows the like the brotherhood 1082 00:47:09,220 --> 00:47:10,520 when you hear the story a little bit. 1083 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,940 So essentially one falls into the water 1084 00:47:12,940 --> 00:47:15,100 and the other one was like, I'm going with you. 1085 00:47:15,100 --> 00:47:17,200 Like I'll try to do whatever I can to save you. 1086 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:21,780 So yeah, it's very sad, very sad. 1087 00:47:21,780 --> 00:47:22,760 Absolutely. 1088 00:47:23,780 --> 00:47:27,100 When it comes to the Coast Guard, it's interesting. 1089 00:47:27,100 --> 00:47:29,400 You know, it seems to be the kind of redheaded stepchild 1090 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:31,580 of the military, but when you dive in, 1091 00:47:31,580 --> 00:47:35,060 I mean, that's who the rescue swimmers are in the Coast Guard. 1092 00:47:35,060 --> 00:47:38,820 And I had one of my guests was Coast Guard during 9-11 1093 00:47:38,820 --> 00:47:41,040 circling around what we talked about earlier. 1094 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:42,820 And unbeknownst to most people, 1095 00:47:42,820 --> 00:47:46,600 there was an absolutely huge mass evacuation 1096 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,220 off the island primarily orchestrated by the Coast Guard. 1097 00:47:50,220 --> 00:47:52,700 And they got them all off through the water, 1098 00:47:52,700 --> 00:47:53,520 through the Hudson. 1099 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,820 So if people haven't kind of dived into their part 1100 00:47:57,820 --> 00:48:00,580 in 9-11, look that up, because it's incredible. 1101 00:48:00,580 --> 00:48:03,380 And it was not only their ships, but a whole bunch 1102 00:48:03,380 --> 00:48:06,460 of other boats just kind of all went to the shore 1103 00:48:06,460 --> 00:48:07,740 and got all the people off. 1104 00:48:07,740 --> 00:48:08,660 It was incredible. 1105 00:48:09,660 --> 00:48:10,500 Yeah. 1106 00:48:10,500 --> 00:48:13,580 And I, so one of my friends now that's at my unit 1107 00:48:13,580 --> 00:48:16,540 was actually there for 9-11 working. 1108 00:48:16,540 --> 00:48:18,540 He was active duty Coast Guard at the time. 1109 00:48:18,540 --> 00:48:22,080 So hearing his stories of that, it's wild. 1110 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:23,500 But that was cool to see though, 1111 00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:26,020 them in addition to civilian boat, everything, 1112 00:48:26,020 --> 00:48:28,140 tourist boats going there to help and everything. 1113 00:48:28,140 --> 00:48:31,780 That was the type of compassion that we like to see. 1114 00:48:31,780 --> 00:48:32,620 Yeah. 1115 00:48:32,620 --> 00:48:36,100 And you saw that, I think the beginning of COVID, 1116 00:48:36,100 --> 00:48:38,140 with some of the George Floyd stuff, 1117 00:48:38,140 --> 00:48:41,900 a lot of people were saying, I miss 9-12. 1118 00:48:41,900 --> 00:48:43,660 And I think we need to refine that. 1119 00:48:43,660 --> 00:48:46,340 We all still miss that. 1120 00:48:46,340 --> 00:48:48,500 And obviously, not the devastation that happened 1121 00:48:48,500 --> 00:48:50,220 the day before. 1122 00:48:50,220 --> 00:48:54,400 And obviously the horrendous effects of years and years later 1123 00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:55,860 and all the people we're losing in New York now 1124 00:48:55,860 --> 00:48:57,840 because of their rescue operations. 1125 00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,960 But that sense of community, that sense of coming together. 1126 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,140 And I think that by remembering not only that tragedy, 1127 00:49:04,140 --> 00:49:07,980 but the day after how there was so much community 1128 00:49:07,980 --> 00:49:09,900 when we're listening, I mean, I would argue 1129 00:49:09,900 --> 00:49:13,220 the last eight years, two administrations of prying 1130 00:49:13,220 --> 00:49:15,500 this country apart from each other, 1131 00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:19,020 we need to refine that where we were Americans first. 1132 00:49:20,340 --> 00:49:21,180 Yeah. 1133 00:49:21,180 --> 00:49:23,380 And it was granted for, yes, 1134 00:49:23,380 --> 00:49:25,840 such a terrible incident and disaster. 1135 00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,900 It was really cool to see, to look back and see the videos 1136 00:49:28,900 --> 00:49:32,260 and the photographs of first responders, 1137 00:49:32,260 --> 00:49:33,780 civilians wanting to help out. 1138 00:49:33,780 --> 00:49:36,060 And it didn't matter what color your skin was, 1139 00:49:36,060 --> 00:49:40,260 what nationality you were, if you were straight or not. 1140 00:49:40,260 --> 00:49:41,420 Like it did not matter. 1141 00:49:41,420 --> 00:49:43,940 They were literally just there to help each other 1142 00:49:43,940 --> 00:49:45,540 because you were an American. 1143 00:49:45,540 --> 00:49:48,860 And we had so many American flags out, 1144 00:49:48,860 --> 00:49:50,340 everybody was supportive. 1145 00:49:50,340 --> 00:49:51,980 And then that kind of like went away 1146 00:49:51,980 --> 00:49:54,020 and now we're back to, you know. 1147 00:49:54,020 --> 00:49:55,420 Yeah, I think we can find our way back. 1148 00:49:55,420 --> 00:49:58,340 But that shared suffering, I mean, to me, 1149 00:49:58,340 --> 00:50:02,860 the shared suffering now is just the need for a real leader. 1150 00:50:02,860 --> 00:50:05,540 And I think there's finally a realization 1151 00:50:05,540 --> 00:50:07,100 that the system is just broken. 1152 00:50:07,100 --> 00:50:09,380 You're gonna get the same person every four years. 1153 00:50:09,380 --> 00:50:11,620 They'll have a blue tie, they'll have a red tie, 1154 00:50:11,620 --> 00:50:13,740 same, you know, they're not looking out 1155 00:50:13,740 --> 00:50:15,140 for the good of the nation. 1156 00:50:15,140 --> 00:50:18,120 They're not altruistic, they're not kind and compassionate. 1157 00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:19,900 They may say they attend the Holy Building, 1158 00:50:19,900 --> 00:50:21,980 but they don't seem to learn any of the lessons, you know. 1159 00:50:21,980 --> 00:50:24,980 So I think that I'm hoping that we'll come together 1160 00:50:24,980 --> 00:50:27,740 and demand, you know, firstly, community with ourselves, 1161 00:50:27,740 --> 00:50:30,700 but also demand people that'll be at the helm 1162 00:50:30,700 --> 00:50:33,020 that are actually worthy of that title finally. 1163 00:50:34,020 --> 00:50:35,100 Yeah, I would love to see that. 1164 00:50:35,100 --> 00:50:37,860 I think it would benefit everybody involved. 1165 00:50:37,860 --> 00:50:38,780 100%. 1166 00:50:38,780 --> 00:50:42,140 Well, speaking of compassion and humanity, 1167 00:50:42,140 --> 00:50:44,300 before we get to the Overwatch specifically, 1168 00:50:44,300 --> 00:50:47,500 were there any events, any losses that you had personally 1169 00:50:47,500 --> 00:50:50,340 that drove you to become part of the solution 1170 00:50:50,340 --> 00:50:53,440 when it comes to the mental health and uniform? 1171 00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,900 Yeah, and I actually just did a podcast with Brooke 1172 00:50:55,900 --> 00:50:58,980 and shared this story, and so one of my friends, Ben, 1173 00:50:58,980 --> 00:51:01,660 we were at the same police department together, 1174 00:51:01,660 --> 00:51:06,140 and this is one of the shitty things with our community 1175 00:51:06,140 --> 00:51:08,740 is that we always have to wear the mask 1176 00:51:08,740 --> 00:51:11,260 that we're doing okay or that we're strong 1177 00:51:11,260 --> 00:51:15,100 because we're supposed to be the big, bad, tough dudes 1178 00:51:15,100 --> 00:51:16,480 going to all these calls, you know, 1179 00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:21,480 and every single first responder academy 1180 00:51:22,140 --> 00:51:24,620 and every single bootcamp or basic training, 1181 00:51:24,620 --> 00:51:27,740 you're taught to not show weakness. 1182 00:51:27,740 --> 00:51:30,340 You're taught to be a hard charger 1183 00:51:30,340 --> 00:51:33,340 where weakness, pain is weakness leaving the body. 1184 00:51:33,340 --> 00:51:34,300 You don't wanna be weak. 1185 00:51:34,300 --> 00:51:35,140 You don't wanna be weak. 1186 00:51:35,140 --> 00:51:38,020 Well, if you reach out for assistance saying, 1187 00:51:38,020 --> 00:51:39,740 hey, I'm going through a tough time, 1188 00:51:39,740 --> 00:51:42,820 the stigma and the culture now is, hey, you're weak, 1189 00:51:42,820 --> 00:51:44,500 or I don't wanna work with you anymore 1190 00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:46,620 or anything of that nature. 1191 00:51:46,620 --> 00:51:51,620 So, my friend Ben, he died by suicide 1192 00:51:51,620 --> 00:51:55,420 jumping out of a vehicle on a freeway. 1193 00:51:55,420 --> 00:51:57,380 And it was completely out of the blue, 1194 00:51:57,380 --> 00:52:00,820 just like we hear a lot about our suicides, 1195 00:52:00,820 --> 00:52:04,220 not only within just our first responder military community, 1196 00:52:04,220 --> 00:52:05,060 but everybody. 1197 00:52:05,060 --> 00:52:10,020 It's always, in my opinion, like, hey, 1198 00:52:10,020 --> 00:52:12,500 this is the last person that we ever would have thought. 1199 00:52:12,500 --> 00:52:14,300 This was completely out of nowhere. 1200 00:52:14,300 --> 00:52:16,300 I didn't see any signs or symptoms 1201 00:52:16,300 --> 00:52:18,520 or anything that he or she was struggling. 1202 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,820 So, that's what I saw with Ben. 1203 00:52:20,820 --> 00:52:25,740 And I saw how it affected not only our police department, 1204 00:52:25,740 --> 00:52:28,060 but our entire community, 1205 00:52:28,060 --> 00:52:30,140 and our fire departments that worked with him, 1206 00:52:30,140 --> 00:52:32,740 and some of our hospital staff. 1207 00:52:32,740 --> 00:52:35,780 And he was married and portrayed, 1208 00:52:35,780 --> 00:52:37,180 like everything was going well. 1209 00:52:37,180 --> 00:52:39,620 And then all of a sudden, one day you wake up 1210 00:52:39,620 --> 00:52:41,500 and you're like, okay. 1211 00:52:41,500 --> 00:52:43,100 And then you go through the questions. 1212 00:52:43,100 --> 00:52:45,380 You're like, why, what did I miss? 1213 00:52:45,380 --> 00:52:47,000 Could I have done anything to help? 1214 00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,980 So, that was a little while ago. 1215 00:52:50,980 --> 00:52:54,340 And that wasn't like the main reason for starting this. 1216 00:52:55,820 --> 00:52:58,540 That was just one of the stories where I was like, 1217 00:52:58,540 --> 00:52:59,380 hey, you know what? 1218 00:52:59,380 --> 00:53:01,180 I have a direct involvement with this 1219 00:53:01,180 --> 00:53:04,860 and lost friends of suicide in the military as well. 1220 00:53:04,860 --> 00:53:07,180 Like, my dad's lost friends to suicide 1221 00:53:07,180 --> 00:53:08,460 in the police department world. 1222 00:53:08,460 --> 00:53:12,240 And unfortunately, you ask a lot of first responders 1223 00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:13,220 and service members, like, 1224 00:53:13,220 --> 00:53:15,780 do you know someone who's died by suicide 1225 00:53:15,780 --> 00:53:17,140 in your community? 1226 00:53:17,140 --> 00:53:18,580 And they'll raise their hand and say, yeah. 1227 00:53:18,580 --> 00:53:21,500 And you're like, you start to see the numbers 1228 00:53:21,500 --> 00:53:25,200 of the suicide rate just by police officers 1229 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:26,300 across the country. 1230 00:53:26,300 --> 00:53:29,620 And it was like more than officers shot and killed 1231 00:53:29,620 --> 00:53:30,740 in line of duty or anything. 1232 00:53:30,740 --> 00:53:32,780 And you're like, why do we have so many good people 1233 00:53:32,780 --> 00:53:34,700 out there that wanna do good, 1234 00:53:34,700 --> 00:53:36,720 that are taking their own lives? 1235 00:53:37,940 --> 00:53:38,980 Well, there's a couple of statistics 1236 00:53:38,980 --> 00:53:41,500 that are really scary to me. 1237 00:53:41,500 --> 00:53:44,580 And I'm sure law enforcement is the same as fire. 1238 00:53:44,580 --> 00:53:45,900 The moment we retire, 1239 00:53:45,900 --> 00:53:48,300 we cease to be on any of those stats anymore. 1240 00:53:48,300 --> 00:53:52,780 And so arguably once a firefighter, a police officer, 1241 00:53:52,780 --> 00:53:55,940 a paramedic, a dispatcher has left their tribe, 1242 00:53:55,940 --> 00:53:57,580 they've transitioned out whether they left, 1243 00:53:57,580 --> 00:54:00,220 whether they got fired, whether they retired, 1244 00:54:00,220 --> 00:54:03,480 that's when you're more likely to see everything 1245 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,580 from suicide overdose through to cancer, 1246 00:54:05,580 --> 00:54:06,660 heart disease, et cetera. 1247 00:54:06,660 --> 00:54:09,940 So I would argue that the stats that we're seeing 1248 00:54:09,940 --> 00:54:11,780 are literally the tip of the iceberg 1249 00:54:11,780 --> 00:54:14,080 because we've disregarded anyone, you know, 1250 00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:15,980 anyone that kind of gets past 50 1251 00:54:15,980 --> 00:54:18,540 is now not on the spreadsheet anymore. 1252 00:54:18,540 --> 00:54:20,780 So, you know, that's an absolute huge one. 1253 00:54:20,780 --> 00:54:23,580 I remember, I think police and fire, if I'm not mistaken, 1254 00:54:23,580 --> 00:54:25,940 just the ones that were known, 1255 00:54:25,940 --> 00:54:29,220 we doubled our line of duty deaths with suicide alone. 1256 00:54:29,220 --> 00:54:30,740 And then now ironically, I mean, 1257 00:54:30,740 --> 00:54:32,580 I'm just getting inundated with firefighters 1258 00:54:32,580 --> 00:54:34,140 that are dying of cancer again. 1259 00:54:35,380 --> 00:54:38,940 But then the other kind of the elephant in the room now, 1260 00:54:38,940 --> 00:54:40,820 because you and I spoke on the phone a few days ago, 1261 00:54:40,820 --> 00:54:43,860 I think the stigma has been addressed somewhat, 1262 00:54:43,860 --> 00:54:46,420 just putting it into the conversation 1263 00:54:46,420 --> 00:54:48,260 where I think there's still a huge stigma 1264 00:54:48,260 --> 00:54:51,300 is the overdose side, the addiction side. 1265 00:54:51,300 --> 00:54:54,060 So we're not even factoring in, you know, 1266 00:54:54,060 --> 00:54:56,700 overdoses or even quote unquote accidents 1267 00:54:56,700 --> 00:54:58,260 that were actually suicides as well. 1268 00:54:58,260 --> 00:55:00,340 So again, there's even more numbers 1269 00:55:00,340 --> 00:55:03,240 of basically the same underlying mental health challenge. 1270 00:55:04,100 --> 00:55:08,460 Yeah, and there's definitely some that are not reported, 1271 00:55:08,460 --> 00:55:10,500 the numbers, and unfortunately, 1272 00:55:10,500 --> 00:55:13,620 it kind of is what it is at this point and I hate it, 1273 00:55:13,620 --> 00:55:17,140 but you see the numbers of suicides, right? 1274 00:55:17,140 --> 00:55:20,060 So if we say the number of suicides for firefighters 1275 00:55:20,060 --> 00:55:23,840 in the year of 2023 in the country was 20, right? 1276 00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,140 Like it's probably 40, realistically. 1277 00:55:27,140 --> 00:55:30,220 Unfortunately, those numbers are, they're not accurate. 1278 00:55:30,220 --> 00:55:34,500 They're, because the only time that they published the number 1279 00:55:34,500 --> 00:55:36,700 and make it known is if the family 1280 00:55:36,700 --> 00:55:39,060 and the department agrees on that, right? 1281 00:55:39,060 --> 00:55:43,700 So how many times are there death by suicides 1282 00:55:43,700 --> 00:55:46,780 in our community and it's not getting reported? 1283 00:55:46,780 --> 00:55:49,000 Yeah, I mean, I literally last year, 1284 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,020 I mean, here where I live, the fire department, 1285 00:55:51,020 --> 00:55:54,060 they had two and they were both young guys too 1286 00:55:54,060 --> 00:55:55,420 within 12 weeks of each other. 1287 00:55:55,420 --> 00:55:58,980 It's not a big, it's a county department, it's not huge. 1288 00:55:58,980 --> 00:56:02,820 So I can, you know, in my actual area here 1289 00:56:02,820 --> 00:56:04,900 and then California where I used to work, 1290 00:56:04,900 --> 00:56:09,820 I can think of 10, 15, so there's no way in hell 1291 00:56:09,820 --> 00:56:12,140 that nationally it was 20, no fucking way. 1292 00:56:12,140 --> 00:56:15,620 So, but again, like you said, the press release will go, 1293 00:56:15,620 --> 00:56:17,540 oh, so-and-so died suddenly. 1294 00:56:17,540 --> 00:56:19,260 And you're like, okay, well, I know what that means, 1295 00:56:19,260 --> 00:56:22,220 but no statistic is gonna reflect what actually happened. 1296 00:56:22,220 --> 00:56:24,740 And it's sad because you understand, 1297 00:56:24,740 --> 00:56:29,660 especially if there's a religious element to, you know, 1298 00:56:29,660 --> 00:56:32,660 an opposition to acknowledging suicide, 1299 00:56:32,660 --> 00:56:35,220 but we're also shooting ourselves in the foot 1300 00:56:35,220 --> 00:56:37,540 by not showing the real numbers 1301 00:56:37,540 --> 00:56:40,060 that actually shows the magnitude of this problem. 1302 00:56:41,140 --> 00:56:44,500 Yeah, because maybe if it was the real numbers, 1303 00:56:44,500 --> 00:56:46,940 maybe that would trigger something to be like, wow, look, 1304 00:56:46,940 --> 00:56:48,700 like we do really have a problem 1305 00:56:48,700 --> 00:56:50,660 or something needs to be done. 1306 00:56:50,660 --> 00:56:52,580 Granted, the numbers that we're already seeing now 1307 00:56:52,580 --> 00:56:57,240 are astronomical and like that's what we're trying to do 1308 00:56:57,240 --> 00:57:00,340 is reduce that by one and just try to help. 1309 00:57:00,340 --> 00:57:03,800 But it's crazy to see and you, 1310 00:57:05,580 --> 00:57:09,180 like you see all these numbers and you see on social media 1311 00:57:09,180 --> 00:57:11,060 and you're like, hey, we just had this happen. 1312 00:57:11,060 --> 00:57:13,780 And then there's not really many changes 1313 00:57:13,780 --> 00:57:14,820 that come from that, right? 1314 00:57:14,820 --> 00:57:18,380 Like a majority of our profession is all reactionary, right? 1315 00:57:18,380 --> 00:57:21,380 Like you're at the firehouse and you're working out 1316 00:57:21,380 --> 00:57:23,380 and you're lifting some weights around, 1317 00:57:23,380 --> 00:57:26,580 like you're on a cruise ship and the tones come out 1318 00:57:26,580 --> 00:57:28,220 and you go to a call, you're reacting to that. 1319 00:57:28,220 --> 00:57:30,700 You have someone that comes in and says like, 1320 00:57:30,700 --> 00:57:32,700 hey, that call is affecting me, you're reacting to that. 1321 00:57:32,700 --> 00:57:36,840 But we're not really good at doing like the proactive stuff 1322 00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:39,660 in regards to mental health in my opinion. 1323 00:57:40,940 --> 00:57:44,940 Well, I've been talking about this now for quite a while 1324 00:57:44,940 --> 00:57:46,360 and I'm by no means an expert, 1325 00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,180 but obviously accumulated not only my own perspectives, 1326 00:57:49,180 --> 00:57:50,940 but all the people including Brooke Barlow 1327 00:57:50,940 --> 00:57:52,540 that you just mentioned earlier. 1328 00:57:53,500 --> 00:57:56,180 But I don't wanna kind of front load the question. 1329 00:57:56,180 --> 00:57:59,980 Through your eyes, what are the contributing factors 1330 00:57:59,980 --> 00:58:04,600 that are creating this epidemic in our professions? 1331 00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:10,440 Yeah, I think it's the process of actually getting help. 1332 00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:12,820 Whatever that may look like, whatever help may look like. 1333 00:58:12,820 --> 00:58:16,460 If you're gonna go to therapy or you need to go 1334 00:58:16,460 --> 00:58:20,980 to a 30 day retreat for substance and addiction, 1335 00:58:20,980 --> 00:58:25,980 the whole process and where it starts is having the, 1336 00:58:26,660 --> 00:58:30,300 the confidentiality and the trust to be able to 1337 00:58:30,300 --> 00:58:33,700 raise your hand and say, hey, I need help. 1338 00:58:33,700 --> 00:58:37,020 Or who to go to without the repercussion of it 1339 00:58:37,020 --> 00:58:39,260 affecting your job and your current position. 1340 00:58:40,900 --> 00:58:45,220 The mask that we wear is like, nope, I'm good, I'm good. 1341 00:58:45,220 --> 00:58:46,440 That call did not affect me. 1342 00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,800 And then you go home and you're crying. 1343 00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:50,740 Or I've talked to several dispatchers 1344 00:58:50,740 --> 00:58:53,980 where sometimes after work, they'll cry on their way home 1345 00:58:53,980 --> 00:58:55,500 or they'll sit in a parking lot and cry. 1346 00:58:55,500 --> 00:58:58,540 And you're like, okay, like why don't we have resources 1347 00:58:58,540 --> 00:58:59,380 for you? 1348 00:58:59,380 --> 00:59:01,660 So I think the number one big thing is the, 1349 00:59:01,660 --> 00:59:03,780 obviously the stigma and culture, that's it, right? 1350 00:59:03,780 --> 00:59:06,000 Everybody's talking about that. 1351 00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:11,000 And it is a problem, but why don't we have a smooth 1352 00:59:11,260 --> 00:59:15,140 and confidential process to get anybody in our community 1353 00:59:15,140 --> 00:59:20,060 connected to a therapist that is trained in working with us 1354 00:59:20,060 --> 00:59:23,660 because our first responder military community is different 1355 00:59:23,660 --> 00:59:25,060 than the normal civilian. 1356 00:59:25,060 --> 00:59:29,220 We're hypervigilant, we're worried about our profession 1357 00:59:29,220 --> 00:59:31,820 because we love it so much and we don't wanna lose it. 1358 00:59:31,820 --> 00:59:33,940 We don't want our identity to change. 1359 00:59:33,940 --> 00:59:37,100 But then again, we also don't want anybody at our department 1360 00:59:37,100 --> 00:59:39,220 to know what we're going through. 1361 00:59:39,220 --> 00:59:42,380 Where a lot of the time you say like, oh, 1362 00:59:42,380 --> 00:59:44,160 if you go through peer support team 1363 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,180 or you go through the employment assistant program, 1364 00:59:46,180 --> 00:59:50,620 it's confidential where all it takes is one time for you 1365 00:59:50,620 --> 00:59:52,380 to break that confidentiality. 1366 00:59:52,380 --> 00:59:54,820 And then nobody else in your department's gonna trust 1367 00:59:54,820 --> 00:59:55,860 that process. 1368 00:59:56,980 --> 01:00:00,820 I saw it personally with my son a few years ago 1369 01:00:00,820 --> 01:00:01,800 in middle school. 1370 01:00:02,940 --> 01:00:06,180 He was going through a tough time mentally. 1371 01:00:06,180 --> 01:00:08,220 There was some stuff going on in his mother's house 1372 01:00:08,220 --> 01:00:12,380 we were divorced that was causing trauma at home. 1373 01:00:12,380 --> 01:00:15,460 And he was upset in school and was crying 1374 01:00:15,460 --> 01:00:17,180 in a classroom. 1375 01:00:17,180 --> 01:00:20,780 And the only way to describe it is it was towards the end 1376 01:00:20,780 --> 01:00:22,140 of basically the end of the day. 1377 01:00:22,140 --> 01:00:25,780 And the SRO and the principal at the time 1378 01:00:25,780 --> 01:00:27,560 clearly just wanted to go home. 1379 01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:30,820 So they sent him off on a 72 hour hold 1380 01:00:32,020 --> 01:00:34,700 and basically kidnapped my child for three days. 1381 01:00:34,700 --> 01:00:37,520 And by the time he was actually seen by the people 1382 01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:39,340 in the facility and they were fantastic. 1383 01:00:39,340 --> 01:00:41,300 They were like, I don't know why he sent. 1384 01:00:41,300 --> 01:00:44,180 And they had clearly written protocols 1385 01:00:44,180 --> 01:00:46,820 and these two individuals, these two women 1386 01:00:46,820 --> 01:00:51,820 completely disregarded any of the protocols. 1387 01:00:51,860 --> 01:00:53,780 And he didn't fit any of the criteria. 1388 01:00:53,780 --> 01:00:57,660 And then even if he was kind of in a gray area 1389 01:00:57,660 --> 01:00:59,220 then they're supposed to call a counselor 1390 01:00:59,220 --> 01:01:01,340 from that facility to come down, assess the child. 1391 01:01:01,340 --> 01:01:03,020 And then he would have been like, no. 1392 01:01:03,020 --> 01:01:04,720 And then also I didn't mention this. 1393 01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:08,220 They didn't communicate with me at all. 1394 01:01:08,220 --> 01:01:09,640 Cause he was supposed to check in with me 1395 01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:11,280 and I hadn't got a call from him. 1396 01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:13,700 And he's like, oh, they're here. 1397 01:01:13,700 --> 01:01:15,300 And they said that, oh, that's right. 1398 01:01:15,300 --> 01:01:16,780 The principal got on the phone and she said, 1399 01:01:16,780 --> 01:01:18,340 I'll call you back and let you know. 1400 01:01:18,340 --> 01:01:19,780 And I never got a call back. 1401 01:01:19,780 --> 01:01:22,100 And then she said, oh, he's at the facility now. 1402 01:01:22,100 --> 01:01:22,940 You know what I mean? 1403 01:01:22,940 --> 01:01:24,760 So, and I fought and luckily there was already 1404 01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,340 a movement going on, but this was happening 1405 01:01:27,340 --> 01:01:29,220 to children in Florida all the time. 1406 01:01:29,220 --> 01:01:32,500 And while my son was there, multiple kids 1407 01:01:32,500 --> 01:01:34,740 from this middle school came in. 1408 01:01:34,740 --> 01:01:39,140 And we're talking three days, multiple other kids. 1409 01:01:39,140 --> 01:01:41,020 And it was finally put in law 1410 01:01:41,020 --> 01:01:42,000 that you couldn't do it anymore. 1411 01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,940 These two women would now be serving jail time for that. 1412 01:01:45,940 --> 01:01:47,460 And this SRO is still working 1413 01:01:47,460 --> 01:01:49,340 as fucking school to this day. 1414 01:01:49,340 --> 01:01:50,660 And the principal is still the principal 1415 01:01:50,660 --> 01:01:53,260 cause they got in before this law changed. 1416 01:01:53,260 --> 01:01:57,100 However, the reason for this monologue is this. 1417 01:01:57,100 --> 01:02:00,780 Do you think those kids are gonna fucking reach out now? 1418 01:02:00,780 --> 01:02:01,900 Never, never. 1419 01:02:01,900 --> 01:02:04,940 So you just fucking destroyed that door, 1420 01:02:04,940 --> 01:02:07,860 that open door policy that you probably give lip service to. 1421 01:02:07,860 --> 01:02:08,820 And it's the same thing. 1422 01:02:08,820 --> 01:02:10,620 I'm using that story to illustrate what you're talking 1423 01:02:10,620 --> 01:02:13,860 about in a fire service and law enforcement especially. 1424 01:02:13,860 --> 01:02:16,220 The moment we betray that trust, 1425 01:02:16,220 --> 01:02:18,880 you have just slammed the door on anyone who was hurting 1426 01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,540 because they're not gonna risk reaching out now. 1427 01:02:22,420 --> 01:02:23,400 Yeah. 1428 01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:24,780 Yeah. And it's the same thing 1429 01:02:24,780 --> 01:02:27,980 for the military side of things too. 1430 01:02:27,980 --> 01:02:29,980 And it's also difficult too, 1431 01:02:29,980 --> 01:02:32,120 because a lot of first responders, 1432 01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:33,580 no matter if you're a police officer or not, 1433 01:02:33,580 --> 01:02:35,780 we all like firearms for the most part. 1434 01:02:35,780 --> 01:02:37,620 Everybody likes going shooting with your friends 1435 01:02:37,620 --> 01:02:40,900 and spending time together and you're big 1436 01:02:40,900 --> 01:02:43,580 into collecting firearms or nice guns and everything. 1437 01:02:43,580 --> 01:02:48,580 And if you don't know where to go for help 1438 01:02:48,700 --> 01:02:51,660 or what you can say without getting placed on a hold 1439 01:02:51,660 --> 01:02:52,900 or what you can't say, 1440 01:02:52,900 --> 01:02:55,380 like nobody's gonna risk it 1441 01:02:55,380 --> 01:02:57,540 because you get your guns taken away. 1442 01:02:57,540 --> 01:02:58,960 And then like if you're a police officer 1443 01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:02,460 and you raise that red flag or your hand and you say, 1444 01:03:02,460 --> 01:03:04,400 hey, you know what, Sergeant, 1445 01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:07,100 you're on the peer support team, I need some help. 1446 01:03:07,100 --> 01:03:09,260 If for whatever reason that peer support team 1447 01:03:09,260 --> 01:03:11,540 like tells the rest of the department, that's a problem. 1448 01:03:11,540 --> 01:03:12,780 And people start finding out, 1449 01:03:12,780 --> 01:03:14,220 cause it's like high school 1450 01:03:14,220 --> 01:03:17,220 where you like find out everything about each other's lives. 1451 01:03:18,300 --> 01:03:21,960 But more importantly, like if you don't get the help 1452 01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:23,620 that you need and it's not confidential 1453 01:03:23,620 --> 01:03:25,900 and you get placed on a psychiatric hold 1454 01:03:25,900 --> 01:03:27,420 or they take your firearm from you 1455 01:03:27,420 --> 01:03:30,340 and you find yourself in a suit at the front desk 1456 01:03:30,340 --> 01:03:31,780 taking walk-in reports 1457 01:03:31,780 --> 01:03:34,780 and you're still on the schedule for patrol that day 1458 01:03:34,780 --> 01:03:36,460 but you don't show up to briefing. 1459 01:03:36,460 --> 01:03:38,500 Everybody in briefing is gonna know. 1460 01:03:38,500 --> 01:03:39,340 And then they're gonna be like, 1461 01:03:39,340 --> 01:03:41,540 why is Greg at the front desk 1462 01:03:41,540 --> 01:03:44,020 taking walk-in reports in a suit with no gun? 1463 01:03:45,140 --> 01:03:47,340 That's not like nobody in our community 1464 01:03:47,340 --> 01:03:48,700 is willing to risk that. 1465 01:03:50,420 --> 01:03:52,140 The last two interviews I did, 1466 01:03:52,140 --> 01:03:54,420 the first one, Jeremy Sharlo, 1467 01:03:54,420 --> 01:03:57,140 police officer shot in the line of duty. 1468 01:03:57,140 --> 01:04:00,900 They took his gun, but they didn't give him another one. 1469 01:04:00,900 --> 01:04:02,440 Now, obviously for ballistics and everything, 1470 01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:04,340 of course he's gonna give them the gun. 1471 01:04:04,340 --> 01:04:05,900 But as he said nationally, 1472 01:04:05,900 --> 01:04:07,220 there's supposed to be a replacement gun. 1473 01:04:07,220 --> 01:04:09,300 He wasn't in trouble at all. 1474 01:04:09,300 --> 01:04:11,460 It was just an officer involved shooting. 1475 01:04:11,460 --> 01:04:14,140 But to have someone in uniform 1476 01:04:14,140 --> 01:04:16,980 that isn't an issued a weapon, 1477 01:04:16,980 --> 01:04:20,220 now you've taken, especially in modern times, 1478 01:04:20,220 --> 01:04:21,540 someone who's a big target 1479 01:04:21,540 --> 01:04:24,400 and you've neutered them basically. 1480 01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:26,180 Another guy interviewed, Harry, 1481 01:04:27,260 --> 01:04:31,860 was a British veteran and he had mental health challenges. 1482 01:04:31,860 --> 01:04:34,620 He had his struggles when he came back from combat. 1483 01:04:34,620 --> 01:04:37,660 And in the training after that, 1484 01:04:37,660 --> 01:04:39,380 they took away his rifle, 1485 01:04:39,380 --> 01:04:41,420 even though it was the blank firing rifle 1486 01:04:41,420 --> 01:04:43,540 with the yellow piece on the end of the barrel. 1487 01:04:43,540 --> 01:04:46,240 And they gave him a wooden cutout of a gun. 1488 01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:48,140 And he had to be alongside all the soldiers 1489 01:04:48,140 --> 01:04:51,300 that were using the actual weapon. 1490 01:04:51,300 --> 01:04:55,580 So you talk about stigma, you talk about humiliation. 1491 01:04:55,580 --> 01:04:57,060 These men and women are already struggling 1492 01:04:57,060 --> 01:05:00,320 with guilt and shame and you've just fucking compounded it. 1493 01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:03,980 So now, this is what's so good about these conversations. 1494 01:05:03,980 --> 01:05:06,660 You talked about where we've come from, where we were. 1495 01:05:06,660 --> 01:05:08,380 Now we're looking back going, 1496 01:05:08,380 --> 01:05:10,540 what the fuck were you thinking? 1497 01:05:10,540 --> 01:05:14,500 It's so clear now, but until we had this conversation, 1498 01:05:14,500 --> 01:05:16,340 we've always done it that way. 1499 01:05:16,340 --> 01:05:19,180 And now I wonder how many times that humiliation 1500 01:05:19,180 --> 01:05:21,300 was kind of the final nail in the coffin 1501 01:05:21,300 --> 01:05:23,140 for some of these people that we lost. 1502 01:05:25,060 --> 01:05:29,100 Yeah, and we'll never know, unfortunately, right? 1503 01:05:29,100 --> 01:05:31,300 And that's the shitty part about it is, 1504 01:05:31,300 --> 01:05:34,860 we'll never be able to know, unfortunately, 1505 01:05:34,860 --> 01:05:36,460 because that person's not with us anymore. 1506 01:05:36,460 --> 01:05:40,580 But if that continues and it doesn't get better 1507 01:05:40,580 --> 01:05:42,980 and we're not taking any proactive steps, 1508 01:05:42,980 --> 01:05:45,700 like really sitting down and having hard conversations 1509 01:05:45,700 --> 01:05:47,680 and taking proactive steps on like, 1510 01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:51,980 how can we create a safe and confidential place 1511 01:05:51,980 --> 01:05:55,360 for our community to get help or just get some resources, 1512 01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:58,020 even if it's not like, hey, I need to go to therapy, 1513 01:05:58,020 --> 01:06:00,900 because a lot of people hear that word therapy 1514 01:06:00,900 --> 01:06:02,860 and they wanna do an about facing movement 1515 01:06:02,860 --> 01:06:04,540 and turn around and walk the other way. 1516 01:06:04,540 --> 01:06:06,480 Nobody wants to talk about therapy. 1517 01:06:08,020 --> 01:06:11,260 And that word alone is very triggering. 1518 01:06:11,260 --> 01:06:12,560 You hear the word therapy and you're like, 1519 01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:14,740 oh, really, you're going to therapy for what? 1520 01:06:14,740 --> 01:06:16,140 And then you start having a lot of questions. 1521 01:06:16,140 --> 01:06:20,780 But yeah, I think things do need to change 1522 01:06:20,780 --> 01:06:23,500 and it's frustrating to kind of see, 1523 01:06:24,420 --> 01:06:26,780 like being involved in the Overwatch Collective now 1524 01:06:26,780 --> 01:06:29,140 and kind of having a connection across the country 1525 01:06:29,140 --> 01:06:32,380 and hearing people say, this is what my peer support team 1526 01:06:32,380 --> 01:06:35,060 looks like and this is an incident that just happened. 1527 01:06:35,060 --> 01:06:37,460 And you're like, guys, what are we doing? 1528 01:06:37,460 --> 01:06:39,740 Come on, like we cannot do that anymore 1529 01:06:39,740 --> 01:06:42,240 because we may have just lost that person. 1530 01:06:43,660 --> 01:06:45,500 Well, speaking of loss, and I've touched on this 1531 01:06:45,500 --> 01:06:49,380 a few times in the podcast, EAP, 1532 01:06:49,380 --> 01:06:51,540 the number of horror stories that I've heard, 1533 01:06:51,540 --> 01:06:53,620 and there are a handful of departments 1534 01:06:53,620 --> 01:06:57,340 where they've vetted people in their EAP system. 1535 01:06:57,340 --> 01:06:59,420 And if their men and women go to them, 1536 01:06:59,420 --> 01:07:02,300 then they're going to find a culturally competent clinician 1537 01:07:02,300 --> 01:07:04,700 who is going to do the right thing. 1538 01:07:04,700 --> 01:07:07,900 But more often than not, it's a kind of box checking 1539 01:07:08,900 --> 01:07:12,980 mental health thing that applies to all the civilian staff 1540 01:07:12,980 --> 01:07:14,860 as well as people out of uniform. 1541 01:07:14,860 --> 01:07:17,540 And so, you hear it over and over again, 1542 01:07:17,540 --> 01:07:19,980 police officers, firefighters that find themselves 1543 01:07:19,980 --> 01:07:22,700 in an office with a person and the counselor burst 1544 01:07:22,700 --> 01:07:24,820 into tears or the counselor tells them to get out, 1545 01:07:24,820 --> 01:07:25,700 I can't help you. 1546 01:07:25,700 --> 01:07:27,660 And I've always said, kind of underlining 1547 01:07:27,660 --> 01:07:29,900 what we spoke about a minute ago, 1548 01:07:29,900 --> 01:07:31,860 I'm hearing those stories, 1549 01:07:31,860 --> 01:07:34,620 but how many people aren't here to tell that story anymore 1550 01:07:34,620 --> 01:07:38,040 because they finally mustered up the courage to seek help. 1551 01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:40,420 And then they were told, I can't help you. 1552 01:07:40,420 --> 01:07:41,820 Well, they burst into tears, go, well, 1553 01:07:41,820 --> 01:07:44,220 I must be a piece of shit then, I must be crazy. 1554 01:07:44,220 --> 01:07:46,100 And then they go and finish the job. 1555 01:07:46,100 --> 01:07:50,260 So I think the EAP conversation, 1556 01:07:50,260 --> 01:07:52,900 the finding a culturally competent clinician, 1557 01:07:52,900 --> 01:07:55,260 someone who has worked with our profession, 1558 01:07:55,260 --> 01:07:59,620 that can sit down and also offer a toolbox rather than, 1559 01:07:59,620 --> 01:08:03,380 oh, this is the thing that will help you is the next step. 1560 01:08:03,380 --> 01:08:05,380 Stigma, we get it, most of us. 1561 01:08:05,380 --> 01:08:08,380 It's like, how do we get person struggling A 1562 01:08:08,380 --> 01:08:10,060 to person with solution B? 1563 01:08:10,060 --> 01:08:12,700 That seems to be the real stumbling block for us now. 1564 01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:17,360 Yeah, and I think there are some good stories 1565 01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:20,220 that I've heard with EAP and that's great. 1566 01:08:20,220 --> 01:08:21,820 I do feel like it's a check in the box 1567 01:08:21,820 --> 01:08:23,500 for a lot of departments, yes. 1568 01:08:23,500 --> 01:08:28,500 But I still see so many challenges with that 1569 01:08:28,500 --> 01:08:33,500 where you could get therapists in the area 1570 01:08:34,100 --> 01:08:36,040 if you do reach out and it'll be like, hey, 1571 01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,460 here's a list of the therapists that we have in the area 1572 01:08:38,460 --> 01:08:43,460 that our EAP works with, or just one resource, whatever. 1573 01:08:44,340 --> 01:08:48,060 And it's up to that first responder to make the phone calls, 1574 01:08:48,060 --> 01:08:49,740 to try to contact the therapist, 1575 01:08:49,740 --> 01:08:51,820 to try to schedule an appointment. 1576 01:08:51,820 --> 01:08:55,380 And some of them we find that they're not practicing anymore 1577 01:08:55,380 --> 01:08:57,480 so they haven't updated their website. 1578 01:08:58,360 --> 01:09:00,300 You go to make a phone call and you're like, 1579 01:09:00,300 --> 01:09:01,700 I don't know what to say 1580 01:09:01,700 --> 01:09:03,740 if you're even able to get connected to them. 1581 01:09:03,740 --> 01:09:06,140 Sometimes you get a voicemail and you leave a voicemail 1582 01:09:06,140 --> 01:09:08,940 and you don't get a call back for a few days. 1583 01:09:08,940 --> 01:09:10,780 What if you need help quickly? 1584 01:09:12,180 --> 01:09:17,180 And then also it's like, why are we creating more work 1585 01:09:17,180 --> 01:09:20,400 for that first responder that may be stressful work 1586 01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:23,980 when he or she is already at a point where it's like, hey, 1587 01:09:23,980 --> 01:09:26,260 this person has finally reached out for help. 1588 01:09:26,260 --> 01:09:28,980 So in my opinion, and what I've seen, 1589 01:09:28,980 --> 01:09:33,780 what we need to do is create a place where the moment 1590 01:09:33,780 --> 01:09:37,020 that someone says, hey, I need help, I need resources, 1591 01:09:37,020 --> 01:09:40,600 I'll take anything, they need to be, 1592 01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:42,860 it needs to be the least amount of work 1593 01:09:42,860 --> 01:09:44,100 for that person at all. 1594 01:09:44,100 --> 01:09:45,680 And the least amount is stress 1595 01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:47,620 because the stress is already built up. 1596 01:09:47,620 --> 01:09:52,180 I mean, I've found even when I've been in a very low place 1597 01:09:52,180 --> 01:09:53,540 and I've never, I've talked about this a lot, 1598 01:09:53,540 --> 01:09:56,660 I've never been suicidal, but I mean, I've been 1599 01:09:56,660 --> 01:10:01,500 at a huge, huge depth between being a single dad, 1600 01:10:01,500 --> 01:10:04,820 newly divorced, working a busy rescue for a department 1601 01:10:04,820 --> 01:10:07,500 and going through paramedic school all at the same time 1602 01:10:07,500 --> 01:10:10,200 and trying to juggle finances and everything else. 1603 01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:12,480 When you are in that low place, 1604 01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:15,100 something as simple as doing the dishes 1605 01:10:15,100 --> 01:10:18,500 seems like an absolutely mammoth task. 1606 01:10:18,500 --> 01:10:21,580 And so you think about how am I gonna orchestrate finding 1607 01:10:21,580 --> 01:10:24,540 the counselor and then setting up appointments, 1608 01:10:24,540 --> 01:10:28,220 someone who's not struggling can breeze in there, 1609 01:10:28,220 --> 01:10:30,220 put their arm around them and say, look, I'm gonna help you, 1610 01:10:30,220 --> 01:10:32,900 I'm gonna walk you through this, we'll get this done. 1611 01:10:32,900 --> 01:10:34,940 But you can also look down your nose and be like, 1612 01:10:34,940 --> 01:10:36,860 well, just fucking call them, what's wrong with you? 1613 01:10:36,860 --> 01:10:39,380 Well, they are in crisis, that's what's wrong with them. 1614 01:10:39,380 --> 01:10:42,180 They don't have the capacity to think the way that we do 1615 01:10:42,180 --> 01:10:45,180 and we're well rested and we're not struggling. 1616 01:10:45,180 --> 01:10:50,180 Yeah, and it's crazy when you think about this whole process 1617 01:10:50,860 --> 01:10:53,060 and I love having a conversation with you about it 1618 01:10:53,060 --> 01:10:55,340 where, and like I do with so many other people 1619 01:10:55,340 --> 01:10:57,760 on our podcast where it's like, you have all these ideas 1620 01:10:57,760 --> 01:10:59,680 and all these ideas and what needs to be done 1621 01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:03,340 and you're like, okay, so let's finally do something. 1622 01:11:03,340 --> 01:11:04,660 Let's make something known about it 1623 01:11:04,660 --> 01:11:08,220 where you talk about just doing the dishes 1624 01:11:08,220 --> 01:11:09,260 and that could be a hard task. 1625 01:11:09,260 --> 01:11:12,700 Sometimes it's hard for people to even get out of bed, 1626 01:11:12,700 --> 01:11:15,500 where it's like, and obviously throughout that time, 1627 01:11:15,500 --> 01:11:17,420 you're probably gonna have your phone with you. 1628 01:11:17,420 --> 01:11:21,660 So you need resources right away at your fingertips. 1629 01:11:21,660 --> 01:11:24,500 Absolutely, so let's talk about the Overwatch Collective 1630 01:11:24,500 --> 01:11:27,980 then what made you decide to do that 1631 01:11:27,980 --> 01:11:29,260 even in the first place? 1632 01:11:29,260 --> 01:11:30,500 How did you stand it up? 1633 01:11:30,500 --> 01:11:32,480 And then what are the resources that you're offering 1634 01:11:32,480 --> 01:11:34,340 to our first responders in military? 1635 01:11:35,340 --> 01:11:38,980 Yeah, so that's a lot, good questions, I'll get into it, 1636 01:11:38,980 --> 01:11:40,940 but I can answer that in like an hour and a half 1637 01:11:40,940 --> 01:11:42,740 or I can answer it in five minutes. 1638 01:11:44,100 --> 01:11:48,020 So my buddy, Jesse, he was also in the Marine Corps 1639 01:11:48,020 --> 01:11:50,200 and then we met in the Coast Guard. 1640 01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:51,340 We were at the same unit 1641 01:11:51,340 --> 01:11:54,620 and since we were both in the Marine Corps, 1642 01:11:54,620 --> 01:11:56,380 we kind of had a special little bond 1643 01:11:56,380 --> 01:11:58,700 and so we did everything together. 1644 01:11:58,700 --> 01:12:00,620 We were in the field together doing our training. 1645 01:12:00,620 --> 01:12:03,320 He ended up living at my house for a little bit 1646 01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:07,780 and he brought up the idea of starting a podcast 1647 01:12:07,780 --> 01:12:09,700 and I was like, I don't know what goes into 1648 01:12:09,700 --> 01:12:11,940 starting a podcast, I don't know technology, 1649 01:12:11,940 --> 01:12:14,300 I'm not the smartest individual out there 1650 01:12:15,340 --> 01:12:18,740 and he was like, let's talk about life in the military 1651 01:12:18,740 --> 01:12:21,180 and you could talk about being a first responder 1652 01:12:21,180 --> 01:12:22,900 and I was like, okay, and I was like, 1653 01:12:22,900 --> 01:12:24,540 why don't we talk about mental health 1654 01:12:24,540 --> 01:12:26,960 and we've both lost friends to suicide. 1655 01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:28,900 We just had a mental health debrief 1656 01:12:28,900 --> 01:12:31,560 and everybody was like, all right, next, 1657 01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:33,900 onto the next one, let's fill this gap, 1658 01:12:33,900 --> 01:12:35,360 let's work on this problem. 1659 01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:39,160 So then we ordered some basic equipment, 1660 01:12:39,160 --> 01:12:42,360 set up in his apartment garage 1661 01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:46,440 and put up a bunch of flags the first episode 1662 01:12:46,440 --> 01:12:48,680 to hide the boxes that were stacked up 1663 01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:50,200 and ultimately we were just like, 1664 01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:51,720 hey, this is what our idea is 1665 01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:53,400 and this is what we wanna work on 1666 01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:55,640 and talk about mental health and the resources 1667 01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:58,240 and we cover the basis being in the military, 1668 01:12:58,240 --> 01:12:59,560 me being a police officer 1669 01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:01,560 and knowing a lot of first responders 1670 01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:03,800 and like, hey, let's start talking about this 1671 01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:06,240 and then we started to have people on the podcast 1672 01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:08,880 and we had a brand new officer, 1673 01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:10,440 we had three dispatchers, 1674 01:13:10,440 --> 01:13:11,680 an officer who was involved 1675 01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:13,400 and an officer involved shooting 1676 01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:17,600 with a diagnosis of PTSD and a suicide attempt 1677 01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:19,440 and a combat veteran and we were like, 1678 01:13:19,440 --> 01:13:22,480 let's get everybody within this community 1679 01:13:22,480 --> 01:13:26,000 on the podcast to start and kind of see where it goes 1680 01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,880 and then after about 15 episodes, 1681 01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:31,920 we started to receive some donations 1682 01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:34,000 and they were like, hey, we love what you're doing 1683 01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:35,920 about talking about this and normalizing 1684 01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:38,320 and having people share their stories 1685 01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:40,280 of essentially their traumas 1686 01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:42,120 and discussing suicide attempts 1687 01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:43,760 and their ideations at the time 1688 01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:48,160 and we were like, okay, great, good feedback, 1689 01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:49,320 now we want more. 1690 01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:54,360 So then we applied for a 501c3 nonprofit 1691 01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:57,560 through LegalZoom, which I got tasked with that, 1692 01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:00,640 which was an absolute headache of a process 1693 01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:03,960 but ultimately started to get, 1694 01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:06,320 once we got approved, 1695 01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:08,880 we got our first therapist onboarded with us 1696 01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:09,920 in the state of California 1697 01:14:09,920 --> 01:14:12,760 and we were like, hey, we have donations somehow, 1698 01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:14,840 we wanna connect people to you 1699 01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:18,640 and not have their department find out 1700 01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:21,520 or anybody find out just the four of us 1701 01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:23,040 and then we'll pay for them to go, 1702 01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:24,280 how do we do that? 1703 01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:26,840 We were just like, what does that process look like? 1704 01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:30,160 And then that's kind of where it started 1705 01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:32,520 and then we started paying for therapy. 1706 01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:34,800 So expand on that. 1707 01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:37,280 I mean, what are the barriers to entry 1708 01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:39,000 that you were seeing through your eyes 1709 01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:40,520 and what are you able to bring? 1710 01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:41,560 I mean, we touched on Brooke, 1711 01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:43,640 she's an incredible resource, 1712 01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:45,400 amazing counselor in California, 1713 01:14:45,400 --> 01:14:47,240 she also has a license here in Florida now 1714 01:14:47,240 --> 01:14:48,920 to do virtually as well. 1715 01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:50,960 So what were the challenges that you were seeing 1716 01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:52,720 and what have you been able to bring 1717 01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:53,880 to these men and women? 1718 01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:57,440 Yeah, so obviously like what we just talked about, 1719 01:14:57,440 --> 01:14:59,800 the challenges of when you have someone in our community 1720 01:14:59,800 --> 01:15:02,240 that's struggling, that can't get out of bed, 1721 01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:05,960 that can't do the dishes, that doesn't trust the EAP, 1722 01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:08,400 doesn't trust the peer support team, 1723 01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:10,560 is worried about the stigma and the culture 1724 01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:14,880 and everything that goes along with mental health 1725 01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:16,120 and reaching out for help. 1726 01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:17,400 And if you're listening to this 1727 01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:19,400 and you're a first responder in the military, 1728 01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:21,280 you know exactly what I'm talking about. 1729 01:15:21,280 --> 01:15:23,440 It's a struggle to reach out 1730 01:15:23,440 --> 01:15:25,600 and you don't see it that much. 1731 01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:27,840 So then we started to figure out like, okay, 1732 01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:28,920 where's the gap? 1733 01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:30,160 Like what do we need to do 1734 01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:32,680 to get our own contracted therapists? 1735 01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:34,960 Number one, we need a contract. 1736 01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,520 So we went on Microsoft Word, filled out a contract 1737 01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:39,880 and then we had to go through a vetting process 1738 01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:41,120 for each of our therapists 1739 01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:43,320 because I didn't wanna start something 1740 01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:45,520 that was like kind of like the EAP 1741 01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:47,640 where you might get connected to a therapist 1742 01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:50,520 that doesn't know anything about first responders 1743 01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:52,480 and knowing the importance of working 1744 01:15:52,480 --> 01:15:56,240 with a culturally competent therapist, that's what we need. 1745 01:15:56,240 --> 01:15:59,360 So we ensured that the people that we had on 1746 01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:01,240 were all culturally competent, 1747 01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:04,320 got their first responder training certifications, 1748 01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:07,480 their EMDR training certifications, 1749 01:16:07,480 --> 01:16:10,400 had a phone call with them and vetted that therapist 1750 01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:13,400 to ensure that he or she can work well with our community. 1751 01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:18,320 And then it was, okay, let's try to get therapists 1752 01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:20,840 in every single state across the country, 1753 01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:23,320 do a podcast with every single therapist 1754 01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:26,360 talking about their personal life, 1755 01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:27,960 like what they like to do for fun, 1756 01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:30,760 what therapy would look like with him or her 1757 01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:33,360 and some of the trainings and certifications 1758 01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:36,160 so that when a first responder service member 1759 01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:40,040 or family member comes to us or to our website, 1760 01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:42,760 they can be like, okay, I'm in the state of Florida, 1761 01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:44,960 I wanna see what therapists are contracted. 1762 01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:47,280 So you already know that they're vetted 1763 01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:50,240 and then you can take a few days to listen to a podcast, 1764 01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:52,640 read their bio, go to their website. 1765 01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:54,240 So that first therapy session 1766 01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:56,920 is as much of a success as possible. 1767 01:16:57,920 --> 01:17:00,120 So what about financial barriers? 1768 01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:02,080 From what I'm seeing, 1769 01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:05,760 even if mental health counseling is covered, 1770 01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:08,680 more often than not, it's a very small amount of sessions 1771 01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:12,040 and to think that you're gonna unpack 20 years, 1772 01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:13,120 that's just in the profession, 1773 01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:15,040 but arguably 30, 40 years, 1774 01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:15,920 if you're going all the way back 1775 01:17:15,920 --> 01:17:17,680 to the beginning of childhood 1776 01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:21,200 where many problems may actually have their nucleus, 1777 01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:23,800 it's not gonna happen in three or four sessions. 1778 01:17:23,800 --> 01:17:27,880 So what are you seeing as far as the true availability 1779 01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:29,640 to mental health counseling 1780 01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:31,600 and how are you guys bridging the gap? 1781 01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:35,240 Yeah, so outside of us, 1782 01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:37,720 I think the common theme 1783 01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:40,360 is through the Employment Assistant Program, 1784 01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:43,520 from everything that I've heard over the past few years, 1785 01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:48,520 it ranges from somewhere to five to 15 therapy sessions, 1786 01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:49,680 if you reach out for help. 1787 01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:53,600 Sometimes it'll be 10 per incident. 1788 01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:55,120 So like if you wanna go to therapy 1789 01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:58,120 because of a domestic violence call 1790 01:17:58,120 --> 01:17:59,400 that really messed with you, 1791 01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:01,320 you get 10 therapy sessions for that, 1792 01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:02,840 but it could be, 1793 01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:05,880 you don't have to talk about that incident for all 10. 1794 01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:07,120 So then if you need more, you just say, 1795 01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:08,800 oh, I wanna talk about another incident. 1796 01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:10,840 So there's a workaround with that. 1797 01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:14,600 But yeah, so through some of the insurance 1798 01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:16,640 through the departments, 1799 01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:20,080 they'll pay for five to 10 therapy sessions 1800 01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:22,640 and you don't really get to choose your therapist 1801 01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:24,000 and that therapist. 1802 01:18:25,720 --> 01:18:28,200 And sometimes it takes five therapy sessions 1803 01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:30,400 to feel comfortable with your therapist 1804 01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:31,640 is what we've heard as well, 1805 01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:34,880 or maybe you don't get along with your therapist 1806 01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:36,640 after the second or third one. 1807 01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:37,480 And then you're like, 1808 01:18:37,480 --> 01:18:40,000 okay, I just used up half of my therapy sessions 1809 01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:41,840 and now I need to find another one. 1810 01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:46,600 So there's a lot of challenges with that, 1811 01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:48,720 that I think deter people in our community 1812 01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:51,120 from actually seeking those resources 1813 01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:55,640 and getting assistance where you come to us 1814 01:18:55,640 --> 01:18:59,280 and I think we have figured it out. 1815 01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:04,280 So you come to us and we'll connect you to the therapist 1816 01:19:06,360 --> 01:19:08,720 in a matter of three to five days is what I say. 1817 01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:10,720 Sometimes we've done it in eight hours, 1818 01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:12,560 sometimes 16 hours, 1819 01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:15,200 sometimes it does take five days 1820 01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:18,200 for us to get a first responder service member, 1821 01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:20,480 family member, spouse, significant other 1822 01:19:20,480 --> 01:19:22,520 connected to one of our therapists. 1823 01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:27,360 And it's an easy submission that you do on our website. 1824 01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:29,880 You see if you do have a preferred therapist, 1825 01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:31,960 like after listening to a few podcasts and be like, 1826 01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:33,920 hey, I really wanna work with James, 1827 01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:35,640 then we'll connect you with James. 1828 01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:39,320 And we just ask for like a two to three paragraph 1829 01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:41,240 explanation of who you are, 1830 01:19:41,240 --> 01:19:42,600 what your profession is, 1831 01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:44,600 or if you're a spouse or significant other 1832 01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:48,280 of a dispatcher and why you're seeking therapy 1833 01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:49,560 through the Overwatch Collective, 1834 01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:51,600 do you need financial assistance? 1835 01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:55,360 And then that submission goes to our secretary 1836 01:19:55,360 --> 01:20:00,120 and then our secretary reaches out to that individual 1837 01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:03,520 via email and sends him or her a message saying, 1838 01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:05,760 hey, we appreciate you reaching out. 1839 01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:08,160 This is sometimes the biggest step. 1840 01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:11,880 And then we say, hey, here's the next step of the process. 1841 01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:13,360 We need you to fill out this waiver 1842 01:20:13,360 --> 01:20:16,440 that's basically saying our nonprofit's not liable, 1843 01:20:16,440 --> 01:20:17,840 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 1844 01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:19,920 And then once we get the waiver, 1845 01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:22,560 you get connected to the therapist right away. 1846 01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:25,920 So it's a very confidential process. 1847 01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:28,920 There's like four people that will ever know 1848 01:20:28,920 --> 01:20:32,760 and you can pick your therapist who's vetted. 1849 01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:34,440 You can listen to a podcast. 1850 01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:36,620 And then from there, 1851 01:20:36,620 --> 01:20:39,080 it's off to the races with you and the therapist. 1852 01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:41,280 Like we don't have to hear from that first responder 1853 01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:43,600 or anybody who's going to therapy after that. 1854 01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:48,000 It's all between our secretary and the therapist. 1855 01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:49,320 And what about wait times? 1856 01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:50,480 I know especially the VA, 1857 01:20:50,480 --> 01:20:53,240 the horror stories I've heard of members of the military 1858 01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:55,680 that are in crisis and the next available appointment 1859 01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:57,880 is five months, six months away. 1860 01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:02,080 How are you able to keep a network that has appointments 1861 01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:03,520 that are actually somewhat recent 1862 01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:05,140 so people can get help soon? 1863 01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:09,440 Yeah, so when we do have someone reach out, 1864 01:21:09,440 --> 01:21:11,560 we do our secretary does this as well 1865 01:21:11,560 --> 01:21:13,520 where she'll kind of be like, 1866 01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:17,840 hey, this would be a really good fit for Jill, for example. 1867 01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:21,160 She deals a lot with service members 1868 01:21:21,160 --> 01:21:23,440 and then also has specific training 1869 01:21:23,440 --> 01:21:25,760 to alcohol addiction and all of that. 1870 01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:30,180 So we actually had a veteran reach out to us 1871 01:21:30,180 --> 01:21:31,240 for that exact reason. 1872 01:21:31,240 --> 01:21:34,640 And we got him connected to this therapist 1873 01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:36,120 and it's a perfect match. 1874 01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:38,640 And that was only in a few days. 1875 01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:43,400 So when we were in the process of getting our therapists 1876 01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:45,240 in every single state, 1877 01:21:45,240 --> 01:21:48,360 it did take a little while when people would reach out 1878 01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:50,920 for therapy in like Oklahoma, for example. 1879 01:21:50,920 --> 01:21:54,920 And we didn't have a contracted therapist in Oklahoma yet. 1880 01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:58,360 And then we had to go actively look and see like, 1881 01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:01,480 okay, we need to find culturally competent therapists 1882 01:22:01,480 --> 01:22:03,240 but then we also need to have a phone call 1883 01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:07,160 or email chain back and forth and be like, 1884 01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:09,560 this is the services that we provide. 1885 01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:11,800 We pay for therapy, blah, blah, blah. 1886 01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:14,040 Are you interested in this or not? 1887 01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:15,600 And through that process, 1888 01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:18,160 we really see how challenging it is 1889 01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:21,480 to find a culturally competent therapist. 1890 01:22:21,480 --> 01:22:25,460 And if it's frustrating for us, you sure as shit, 1891 01:22:25,460 --> 01:22:26,760 it's frustrating for that person 1892 01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:28,800 that is finally reaching out for help. 1893 01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:32,880 What can we do on our side 1894 01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:35,600 and obviously the world of psychology 1895 01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:40,600 to increase the amount to encourage 1896 01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:44,800 the mental health professionals to start kind of learning 1897 01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:48,200 or getting the training so they are actually able 1898 01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:50,640 to be effective when it comes 1899 01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:52,240 to counseling people in uniform? 1900 01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:56,080 Yeah, and that's a great question. 1901 01:22:56,080 --> 01:22:59,480 And I personally don't think everybody is gonna be able 1902 01:22:59,480 --> 01:23:02,440 to have specific training to work with our community. 1903 01:23:02,440 --> 01:23:05,080 I don't really see that happening. 1904 01:23:05,080 --> 01:23:07,080 I think it takes a very special person 1905 01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:09,760 to wanna work with our community. 1906 01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:13,080 And a lot of the time we do see prior service members, 1907 01:23:13,080 --> 01:23:17,160 prior first responders who get out of the profession, 1908 01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:19,240 whether early or after retirement, 1909 01:23:19,240 --> 01:23:22,400 and they're like, okay, something needs to change 1910 01:23:22,400 --> 01:23:23,920 and I can be this change. 1911 01:23:25,900 --> 01:23:28,400 And so we do have a few of those as well 1912 01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:31,040 where they're prior first responder, prior service member. 1913 01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:32,840 And it's like, hey, yeah, I did 10 years 1914 01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:35,040 and now I just wanna come back and help. 1915 01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:40,640 But I think there's also a lot of trauma 1916 01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:43,640 that goes into working with someone in our community 1917 01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:47,440 because you're hearing the worst of the worst. 1918 01:23:47,440 --> 01:23:50,600 So then you're getting secondary post-traumatic stress 1919 01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:53,400 from that incident where a lot of our therapists, 1920 01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:56,220 I'd say a majority of them also have their own therapists 1921 01:23:56,220 --> 01:23:59,400 that they work with, where they'll do weekly check-ins 1922 01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:01,740 and be like, hey, I had this really tough therapy session 1923 01:24:01,740 --> 01:24:04,240 with this firefighter who saw this. 1924 01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:07,920 And because there's no way you could be a therapist 1925 01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:10,600 and go a year or two 1926 01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:13,120 and you're seeing first responders and service members 1927 01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:17,200 and you're hearing about murder, suicides 1928 01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:19,340 and fatality, traffic collisions. 1929 01:24:19,340 --> 01:24:23,000 And when you do EMDR, the eye movement desensitization 1930 01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:25,000 reprocessing therapy, 1931 01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:27,200 you're hearing that first responder talk 1932 01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:29,440 about all the six senses that they have, 1933 01:24:29,440 --> 01:24:32,960 the smell, the sight, which also you're thinking about 1934 01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:36,040 and you're trying to imagine, which is also traumatic. 1935 01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:38,000 Absolutely. 1936 01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:40,840 I don't know if you've had this, but even just doing this, 1937 01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:45,840 I've realized now that if I have a series of guests 1938 01:24:46,480 --> 01:24:49,440 that all really get deep into their story, 1939 01:24:49,440 --> 01:24:51,500 which I encourage and invite 1940 01:24:51,500 --> 01:24:56,040 and I think is the most incredibly courageous vulnerability, 1941 01:24:56,040 --> 01:24:59,160 you have to be careful even doing conversations with this. 1942 01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:01,280 If you're someone that is kind of the go-to 1943 01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:04,400 in your department, you're kind of like the peer support 1944 01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:08,280 ear as it were, again, being mindful 1945 01:25:08,280 --> 01:25:10,960 of your own mental health and realizing there's times 1946 01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:12,560 where you need to kind of hit the pause button 1947 01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:15,760 and go offload, go on a cruise or whatever it is. 1948 01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:18,880 Cause it does, I always think of the green mile. 1949 01:25:18,880 --> 01:25:21,360 It's like that, you're trying to take everyone's pain, 1950 01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:22,280 but it's a certain point 1951 01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:23,600 where you've got to let it out yourself. 1952 01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:26,040 Otherwise it will start to bring you down too. 1953 01:25:26,040 --> 01:25:29,320 Yeah, and I completely agree with you 1954 01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:30,720 and I've been there as well. 1955 01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:33,600 And so our podcast that we have is not, 1956 01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:35,960 it's nothing crazy. 1957 01:25:35,960 --> 01:25:37,840 I do the podcast out of the garage 1958 01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:40,020 and it's a flag that's held up behind us. 1959 01:25:40,020 --> 01:25:42,200 And we don't spend too much money on it 1960 01:25:42,200 --> 01:25:44,920 because we want a majority of our funds to go to therapy, 1961 01:25:44,920 --> 01:25:46,760 but all we care about is the content. 1962 01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:51,080 And just like you mentioned where you have these people 1963 01:25:51,080 --> 01:25:54,240 come on and you're sitting across the table from them 1964 01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:59,240 and they're talking about the cold barrel of their pistol 1965 01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:02,160 and how that felt when he put it in his mouth 1966 01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:04,720 and considered dying by suicide. 1967 01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:07,080 And just doing the podcast alone, 1968 01:26:07,080 --> 01:26:10,640 I've done a few where it's like emotionally draining 1969 01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:13,320 and you're just physically and emotionally drained after it 1970 01:26:13,320 --> 01:26:17,000 where you're like, okay, like I need a bit of a break 1971 01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:19,440 or I need to go take a nap or go for a walk or something 1972 01:26:19,440 --> 01:26:22,060 because they are very draining. 1973 01:26:22,060 --> 01:26:23,540 And it's similar to that therapist 1974 01:26:23,540 --> 01:26:25,200 with the secondary post-traumatic stress 1975 01:26:25,200 --> 01:26:27,960 because you're getting deep into that story. 1976 01:26:27,960 --> 01:26:29,300 Absolutely. 1977 01:26:29,300 --> 01:26:30,640 Well, for people listening, 1978 01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:32,640 where can they find the Overwatch Collective 1979 01:26:32,640 --> 01:26:35,460 whether they wanna use your resources or even donate? 1980 01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:39,240 Yeah, so we made it super simple for our community, 1981 01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:41,600 just like finding therapy. 1982 01:26:41,600 --> 01:26:43,680 So you type in the Overwatch Collective on anything 1983 01:26:43,680 --> 01:26:44,980 and you'll find it. 1984 01:26:44,980 --> 01:26:46,560 The Overwatch Collective.com, 1985 01:26:46,560 --> 01:26:48,560 Instagram, the Overwatch Collective, 1986 01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:50,160 TikTok, the Overwatch Collective. 1987 01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:54,080 We do have our own mental health app as well. 1988 01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:59,080 So you go to the app store on your Apple phone or Android, 1989 01:26:59,240 --> 01:27:00,600 even the green text users 1990 01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:03,260 that ruin all the group text messages. 1991 01:27:03,260 --> 01:27:05,280 You download the Overwatch Collective app 1992 01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:08,120 and we have our wellness program on there. 1993 01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:10,240 We have other podcasts that we vet 1994 01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:12,420 and they're good for our community and beneficial. 1995 01:27:12,420 --> 01:27:15,040 We have audio rooms where you can essentially 1996 01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:17,320 do your own podcasts and they save. 1997 01:27:17,320 --> 01:27:21,080 And we have all these resources that do audio rooms 1998 01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:24,200 and you have a social media aspect as well. 1999 01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:27,520 And then the next update is gonna be our buddy program 2000 01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:28,360 that we have on there 2001 01:27:28,360 --> 01:27:30,080 and then all of our therapists as well. 2002 01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:34,200 And with the app, you can use it as Greg Grogan 2003 01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:37,620 or you can hit one button and go into incognito mode 2004 01:27:37,620 --> 01:27:39,440 where you can be completely anonymous 2005 01:27:39,440 --> 01:27:41,200 while still using the entire app 2006 01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:43,760 and getting the benefits and resources. 2007 01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:44,880 Beautiful. 2008 01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:46,800 Well, Greg, I wanna say thank you so much. 2009 01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:50,480 Firstly, I mean, obviously your time in uniform in itself, 2010 01:27:50,480 --> 01:27:54,720 but so often guests that have come on here 2011 01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:57,240 are members of the military, first responders 2012 01:27:57,240 --> 01:27:59,280 and either during service like in your case 2013 01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:03,280 or after service, they still wanna continue to serve. 2014 01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:04,240 They still wanna help. 2015 01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:07,020 They adore the community that they were in 2016 01:28:07,020 --> 01:28:08,880 and it's those incredible men and women 2017 01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:11,000 that are really at the helm 2018 01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:12,880 of all the things that are helping our people. 2019 01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:14,760 I mean, arguably we pay a lot of taxes 2020 01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:17,200 and there's some very large organizations and unions, 2021 01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:20,240 et cetera that should be taking care of our people, 2022 01:28:20,240 --> 01:28:22,080 but there are many, many gaps 2023 01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:24,920 and I have so much admiration for people that stand up 2024 01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:27,360 and try and be proactive in that area. 2025 01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:29,600 So I wanna thank you not only for your service 2026 01:28:29,600 --> 01:28:31,080 but also for being so generous 2027 01:28:31,080 --> 01:28:33,920 and coming on the Behind the Shield podcast today. 2028 01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:34,760 Now, I appreciate it. 2029 01:28:34,760 --> 01:28:35,600 Thank you. 2030 01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:38,780 It's really quick, just a little bit more into donating. 2031 01:28:38,780 --> 01:28:39,920 If you do wanna donate, 2032 01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:43,320 we're a 501C3 non-profit organization. 2033 01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:45,840 So we'll send you a donor letter. 2034 01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:47,680 As of now, our statistics, 2035 01:28:47,680 --> 01:28:51,880 we've connected 124 people to our therapists. 2036 01:28:51,880 --> 01:28:53,960 We're almost at a thousand therapy sessions, 2037 01:28:53,960 --> 01:28:56,960 either fully covered or financially assisted. 2038 01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:58,960 And then we're almost at a hundred thousand dollars 2039 01:28:58,960 --> 01:29:02,080 total spent in therapy over like a 16 month period. 2040 01:29:02,080 --> 01:29:05,800 So all of the donations, the merchandise sale, 2041 01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:09,760 everything all goes back to our non-profit. 2042 01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:14,760 So thank you for your support. 2043 01:29:14,860 --> 01:29:15,700 Thank you. 2044 01:29:15,700 --> 01:29:16,540 Thank you. 2045 01:29:16,540 --> 01:29:17,360 Thank you. 2046 01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:18,200 Thank you. 2047 01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:19,020 Thank you. 2048 01:29:19,020 --> 01:29:40,840 Thank you.