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This episode is brought to you by Thorne and I have some incredible news for any of you

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for a one time purchase.

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To learn more about Thorn, go to episode 323 of the Behind the Shield Podcast with Joel

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Titoro and Wes Barnett.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield Podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

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the show Natural Healing Practitioner and Breathwork Coach Lisa Lee Lowe.

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For many of us in uniform, buy in is an important element.

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Whether it's strength and conditioning or mental health counseling, that person needs

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to understand what we go through.

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As you will hear, Lisa has an incredibly powerful story of overcoming her own alcoholism, her

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journey through the 12 Steps program, finding holistic therapies that work for her and now

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being a practitioner in her own clinic and also part of the Shatterproof program for

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military and first responders.

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Before we get to this incredibly powerful and important conversation, as I say every

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week, please just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the

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show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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This is a free library of almost 900 episodes now, so all I ask in return is that you help

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share these incredible men and women stories so I can get them to every single person on

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planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Lisa Lee Lowe.

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Enjoy.

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Well Lisa, I want to start by saying firstly thank you to Sue who connected us and secondly

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to welcome you onto the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Oh thank you, yes I'd like to thank Sue as well.

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So we'll get to how you guys met.

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It's a program that I've heard a lot of good things about so I'm glad that we're finally

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going to get to hear from one of the voices from that program.

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But first question, where on planet earth are we finding you today?

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I am in Boynton Beach, Florida in the United States.

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So I literally just had the chief of Boynton Beach Fire Department on, Hugh Bruder, just

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a few weeks ago because they just went to what I would argue should be the industry

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standard work week.

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So they went from, they were at like a 48 hour work week, a lot of people work 56 plus

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and they just went to a 42 so they get an extra 24 now between each of their shifts

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which is absolutely groundbreaking I think when it comes to wellness in the first responder

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profession.

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Yes, yes for sure, for sure.

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So I would have to start at the very beginning of your timeline based on your accent.

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I know you're originally from Boynton so tell me where you were born and tell me a little

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bit about your family dynamic, what your parents did, how many civics.

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Okay, so I was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and my father worked for Pepsi Cola and my

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mother was a HR administrator for Nazareth Hospital in Northeast Philadelphia and they

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had five children.

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I have four older brothers and myself and I'm the youngest of five and the only female.

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So I was raised by a lot of men.

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How was that dynamic?

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I'm one of five, the oldest was my sister but she's four years older than me, eight

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years younger than my youngest who are twins.

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So and she left pretty early, you normally graduate school in England at 16, I think

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she left right at that age and so it ended up being three brothers and my youngest sister

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and she's not a tomboy but my god she had to kind of become feral pretty quickly to

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keep up.

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So what was your experience with all your brothers?

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Yes, sort of the same, I had a lot of tomboy in me but they really did treat me like a

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princess.

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So I was always protected and shielded and even as a young adolescent, all of my brother's

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friends were not allowed to ask me out, there was no crossing of those lines or anything

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but yeah although I did want to always play in the games and go fishing with my brothers

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and do all the boy stuff, there was a lot of girly stuff that was infused with that

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as well.

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Now what about sports?

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What were you playing and which exercise were you doing when you were at the school age?

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I wasn't doing any sports, I was watching on the sidelines.

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My brother, the youngest of the boys, my brother Jeff was a soccer player so he played soccer

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so there's a seven year gap between the boys and then finally I was born.

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So there was a little bit of a gap so by the time Jeffrey was playing in middle school

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and getting into high school, I was like what, seven or eight years old.

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So yeah, there wasn't a lot of sports, there was a lot of sports for the boys but not so

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much for myself.

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So what was your outlet?

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Were you a musician, art, was there anything else that you were kind of expressing yourself

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through?

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I would say it was a lot of stuff with makeup and girl stuff and hair stuff and me and my

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girlfriends used to play with dolls and that kind of thing but I can't honestly, I cannot

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remember a specific outlet like art or it was a lot of bike riding and going over each

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other's houses and my girlfriends had outdoor pools and we used to go swimming in the summertime

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and it was a lot of fun.

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So what about from a career aspiration point of view?

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Were you dreaming of becoming anything through high school?

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Well, not exactly, I started, I picked up a drink, I started drinking early in probably

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I would say freshman year of high school and that became, I guess if you want to talk about

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an outlet, I think that became my outlet.

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I started drinking at a young age and it wasn't a problem in the beginning, it was a lot of

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hanging out and a lot of fun and a lot of house parties and just being a kid but as

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I got older it progressively got worse and worse and by the time I was graduating high

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school I would consider myself alcoholic at that point.

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And then I went, tried to go to university and I went and I probably was in two years

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and I just could not finish anything that I started.

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So alcohol really got in the way when I was out of high school and as a young adult.

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As this podcast has progressed and I've become more educated and listened to more and more

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great people, the common denominator of the impact of childhood trauma on adulthood, especially

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in uniform because it's so acute, we're like, oh, well you were in Afghanistan or you were

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at that fire, that's why.

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When you look back now with this mature lens, what were the elements that contributed to

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your use of alcohol, especially to the point where it did become a level of alcoholism

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as you reached adulthood?

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I think that I'm not so sure that I had a specific point where I said, okay, this is

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where my trauma is.

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This is exactly why I'm drinking.

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I don't really think it happened that way for me.

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And this is just my belief, okay, is that my father's side of the family all came from

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Ireland, all were very, very big drinkers.

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So my childhood, although it was infused with a lot of protection and love and all that

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stuff, there was a lot of drinking on my father's side of the family.

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So we drank at weddings, we drank at funerals, we drank all the time.

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So that was like a part of my culture.

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So by the time I got to be 18, 19 years old and other women were like, or my girlfriends

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were going off to college or they were getting married or whatever they were doing, I sort

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of was still stuck in that paradigm and was finding it very difficult to get out.

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So I don't think I could look back and say, okay, that is what caused trauma.

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I think it was just ancestral trauma for me.

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It was just being born in a family that there was just so much drinking, aunts, uncles,

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you name it.

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It was just a part of our family.

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And my poor mother never had a drink in her life.

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And she married my father into my father's family and then had five children and four

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of those children were alcoholic.

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So she really had a hard time understanding it or she didn't know what the heck was going

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on.

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It's a mental twist.

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It's a mental condition.

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It's not something that if you are alcoholic, this isn't, it has nothing to do with your

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character, your morality as a person, who you are on the inside.

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It has nothing to do with that.

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I mean, studies have shown that you can, the physiology part is that you could just be

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born with the addiction gene.

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I mean, they haven't proven this.

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There's no cure for addiction.

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They haven't proven this, but studies show that if you are born into a family that has

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this type of ancestral trauma with addiction, chances are that you have a high probability

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of becoming an addict or an alcoholic yourself.

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Yeah.

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Well, it's interesting looking at it when there's the whole nature versus nurture conversation.

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And again, the answer is yes.

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It's both because as you said, if there's a multi-generational trauma and there's multi-generational

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unhealthy coping mechanisms, then you're going to be exposed to that environment yourself.

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But as we learn about epigenetics, there is a genetic change as well.

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And there's some people that can pick up a drink and never have another one.

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And there's people, many, many people that once they pick up one, that becomes 10 and

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they can't stop themselves.

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But I think the hope is that if you can address the trauma through epigenetics, you can also

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turn it the other way and you can start breaking that cycle and positively affecting your children

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and hopefully they won't experience this lineage of addiction that your ancestors did.

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Yes.

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And what's interesting too is my mother had four boys and myself and my eldest brother,

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James, he's the only blue-eyed child and the rest of the children have green eyes and he's

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the only child that was not alcohol.

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Really?

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Yes.

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So I found that fascinating that possibly he just did not get the gene.

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Now he inherited all the coping skills and he probably was the first one to notice like

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this is not working in my life and he started to change at an early age.

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The rest of us, not so much because we had that drink to mask what was going on.

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He did not have a mask.

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So he had to look at what was going on in his life.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Actually, I interviewed a Dutch model a while ago now and she put it perfectly.

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She battled with alcoholism herself and she said, she had the realization like I have

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to basically to use the street expression, I have to raw dog emotion and really feel

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it.

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Feel the highs, feel the lows.

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But just like you said, or you just dull it.

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You anesthetize yourself with alcohol.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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And I think that there's a lot of stigma attached to alcoholism and addiction is that they think

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that some people think that it's almost like a dirty kind of illness.

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Something's wrong with the person and it really doesn't have too much to do that because once

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you put down a drink, once you take the drink and you put it down, who you are comes right

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back quite quickly.

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And then you're going to have to deal with all of the trauma or the coping skills that

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don't work in your life.

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They come bubbling up and then you have to address that and try to fix it to the best

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of your ability with therapy and with spirituality and whatever works for you, honestly.

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I literally was reflecting with my wife the other day because I've always, I've drank

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quite habitually, often, but never ever.

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If I get past about three, it's like that's my line and I have to kind of gate back or

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whatever.

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And so it's never drinking to forget.

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It was never really drinking to sleep because if I don't drink, I sleep much better.

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And I was telling her, we've got drinks that I don't like in the fridge, like High Noons

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or something, the seltzers that she likes.

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We've got liquor in the cabinet that people have brought around.

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It's not the taste that I like.

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And not once in my life have I ever been like, well, I don't care.

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I need alcohol.

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So for me, it's a lot more embedded, I think, through my British culture and being raised

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with wine with dinner and just that association because I can hit pause.

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It will drag me in if I'm not careful.

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Again, I think that's 14 years of shift work.

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We drink on our days off to wind down, which in turn screws up your sleep.

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So it's completely counterproductive.

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But also, culture is a part of it.

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And then you look at the fire service, you look at law enforcement.

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We drink to celebrate.

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We drink to commiserate.

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And so that's one of the many layers.

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Like you said, it's not just, oh, what's the thing?

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It's what the combination of things are for you personally.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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It's interesting that you bring up the fire service because this weekend, Friday, Saturday

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and Sunday, I was with the Indianapolis Fire Department doing breathwork with them.

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And one of the gentlemen that I did breathwork, he said, listen, we want to take you out on

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what they call like a fire run.

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I've never been on a fire truck in my life.

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And what a thrill.

230
00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,320
For a civilian, I was like a kid.

231
00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:33,440
It was just amazing to see the men and women and how they're trained and what they have

232
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:34,600
to do.

233
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,520
And it was just a thrill of a lifetime.

234
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,800
But I was with firemen all weekend this weekend.

235
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,840
Yeah, it's such a buzz.

236
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:44,840
And we get to do everything.

237
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,560
Like, you know, we say if it doesn't involve arresting someone, the fire service does everything

238
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,760
else in a fire slash EMS.

239
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:55,800
I mean, we don't normally do it combined, but it's, you know, I mean, what a skill

240
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,600
set, which is why it's interesting when people then transition out and they're like, oh,

241
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:00,600
what am I going to do now?

242
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:01,600
I was a firefighter.

243
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,680
Yes, you're a firefighter.

244
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:04,760
You have teamwork.

245
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,760
You have problem solving skills working under pressure.

246
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,360
There's this whole toolbox.

247
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:13,760
There's no one else on planet Earth that has the spectrum of skills that an American firefighter

248
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,880
has, especially in a busy station.

249
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,600
I saw that firsthand.

250
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,480
They took me on the truck.

251
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,160
I had to stay in the truck.

252
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:30,120
But when they pulled up, the sirens were going.

253
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:39,160
And within 90 seconds, these people were getting dressed at nighttime with no light and completely

254
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,520
in full garb jumping out of the truck.

255
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,820
And there was a cardiac arrest.

256
00:18:43,820 --> 00:18:47,080
Somebody was it didn't turn out to be a cardiac arrest.

257
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,720
He was having a panic attack and he was sauced up.

258
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:51,720
That's what they told me.

259
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,320
Oh, he was sauced up and they got him out of the car.

260
00:18:54,320 --> 00:19:04,000
But yeah, I just saw all that, there was a lot of organization in the chaos.

261
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:05,000
Even that call.

262
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,040
So imagine that they thought it was a fire and it was a false alarm or a cardiac arrest

263
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,280
and now it's anxiety.

264
00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:16,000
Now you also have that if they woke up two in the morning, you have zero to a hundred

265
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,600
and then a hundred back to three.

266
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:19,600
You know what I mean?

267
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:20,920
So your stress is going up and down.

268
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,160
And I talk about this a lot and this includes breath.

269
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,160
If we go there and it is a fire, OK, well, now you've got this physical exertion.

270
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,500
You can offload the stress.

271
00:19:29,500 --> 00:19:30,980
You are breathing hard.

272
00:19:30,980 --> 00:19:32,580
Your blood is pumping hard.

273
00:19:32,580 --> 00:19:36,600
But if you go and you were told it was a school shooting and then you get there and it was

274
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,560
firecrackers in the parking lot, you've got no offload.

275
00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,600
And this is even more magnified in dispatch.

276
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,820
These poor people take the call.

277
00:19:44,820 --> 00:19:48,280
Their heart rate goes through the roof, but they're sitting in a chair and they don't

278
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,760
even get to find out what happened next.

279
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:51,760
Yes.

280
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:52,760
Yes.

281
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,880
I have done some breathwork therapy with dispatchers.

282
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:04,520
They have, you know, they believe it or not, they this is just my experience is they carry

283
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,640
a lot of guilt.

284
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:14,240
I don't know what it is specifically, but it seems like their guilt is so much higher.

285
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:19,120
They just feel so responsible because I guess because they're the first person, they're

286
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:21,720
the first person to get that call and to direct.

287
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:28,780
And if it doesn't go in a good way, you know, they just feel a lot of responsibility.

288
00:20:28,780 --> 00:20:30,160
It's a very difficult job.

289
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:36,280
Well, I think we saw this in the pandemic, you know, when autonomy was taken away, that's

290
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:38,000
very detrimental to mental health.

291
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,920
And I'm sure there's a strong feeling of helplessness when yes, you are sending the help, but you

292
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,840
yourself are on the phone waiting because I've been at many times, you know, when we

293
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,020
get there, they say, okay, you can hang up now.

294
00:20:49,020 --> 00:20:52,520
So they're waiting the whole time on the phone with this patient.

295
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,040
Sometimes they're alive when we get there.

296
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,940
Sometimes they're dead holding the phone when we get there, you know, I mean, and the dispatchers

297
00:20:56,940 --> 00:20:58,760
hear all that.

298
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,640
Yes, yes, yes.

299
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,280
I'm glad I'm in the field than I'm in.

300
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:12,160
I said to them, I can't believe you guys run into burning buildings on purpose.

301
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:13,160
They were all laughing.

302
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,040
Yeah, it was a great experience.

303
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,040
Yeah, yeah.

304
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,840
It's so much fun, but this is why I fight for them.

305
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,220
They do incredible things.

306
00:21:20,220 --> 00:21:25,240
So let's give them the environment that allows them to thrive, not fail.

307
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:26,240
Absolutely.

308
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,600
I saw it for myself for the first time.

309
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,420
So big shout out to the Indianapolis Fire Department for sure.

310
00:21:33,420 --> 00:21:35,440
And that's how I met Sue.

311
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:36,440
Beautiful.

312
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:37,440
All right.

313
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,480
Well, you mentioned about, you know, struggling with alcoholism.

314
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,120
You talked about AA briefly.

315
00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:47,960
So where was the lowest point that you found yourself and how were you able to kind of

316
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:52,360
claw yourself out and actually start looking for help?

317
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:57,480
Well, I'm what they call James struck sober.

318
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:03,600
I don't know if you've ever heard that term before, but okay, struck sober means I had

319
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,080
absolutely no intention of getting sober.

320
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:15,040
And one day I found myself at the 66 bus in Philadelphia, right by Frankfurt Avenue and

321
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:21,200
Knights Road, and I was waiting for a bar to open up called the City Line Tavern.

322
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,680
And it opened up at six o'clock in the morning.

323
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:29,640
And I was out all night partying with friends and it was like three thirty in the morning

324
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:35,700
and I knew that the City Line bar would open up at six.

325
00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:40,080
So I somehow found myself sitting and waiting for that to open up.

326
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:46,080
And right across the street was a Philadelphia Inquirer newsstand.

327
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:51,000
And unbeknownst to myself, the person that owned that, his name was Joe Brown.

328
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,500
I could say his last name because God love him.

329
00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:57,920
He's no longer with us, but he was one of the out, you know, an eight.

330
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,440
We used to call them AA angels and he owned this stand.

331
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:08,920
And I was waiting for the City Line bar to open up and he came out and he was like, hey,

332
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:10,120
how are you doing?

333
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:11,480
My name's Joe.

334
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:19,240
And I'm wondering why a young lady like yourself is waiting for a bar to open up at six o'clock

335
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:20,840
in the morning.

336
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,400
And I thought, oh my God, like this guy wants.

337
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:25,920
This is exactly what I thought.

338
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:27,980
Oh my God, this guy, he likes me.

339
00:23:27,980 --> 00:23:29,240
He wants to date me.

340
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,880
I mean, you want to talk about an ego, right?

341
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:40,160
I am like half drunk at three o'clock in the morning and the ego's already starting.

342
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,960
And he had no intentions of that.

343
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,400
He was a good family man.

344
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:51,920
But in any case, he put the seed and he said, you know, you don't have to sit out here at

345
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,720
three, four o'clock in the morning.

346
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,600
And all of a sudden, a lot of bubbling up of the emotions.

347
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:06,600
Now I was intoxicated at the time, but there was something got in.

348
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:14,920
And just to make a whole very long story short, about six months later, I bumped into that

349
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:15,920
man again.

350
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:16,920
I was outside.

351
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:25,160
I didn't know this, but I was at another friend's house and he saw me and he came up to me and

352
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,880
he said to me, do you remember me?

353
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,520
And I said, no, I was intoxicated.

354
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,000
And he said, remember me?

355
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,000
My name's Jo.

356
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,040
I was at the, you know, standby.

357
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:40,080
He said, why don't you come to an AA meeting with me?

358
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:47,240
And at that particular time, I probably didn't eat in three or four days.

359
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:52,360
And he said, you know, there's an AA meeting right up the way here and they have donuts

360
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:56,000
and coffee and sandwiches.

361
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,560
And I thought donuts, coffee and sandwiches.

362
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,120
That really sounds good.

363
00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:07,640
That's how I got sober with the idea of donuts, coffee and sandwiches.

364
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:12,620
He was just, he was an old, what they called an old timer at that time.

365
00:25:12,620 --> 00:25:21,680
And he really had a lot of knowledge about, oh, I get, he saved my life.

366
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:29,960
A lot of knowledge about what alcoholism is and isn't.

367
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:38,800
And he was extremely capable of seeing the person and the illness separate.

368
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,340
Very capable.

369
00:25:40,340 --> 00:25:46,080
He was very educated on alcoholism and he just sort of said, yeah, come on.

370
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:52,240
And I went to my first meeting and when I got to my first meeting, I thought I was at

371
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:57,200
the, what do you call them with the guys with the hats, with the tassels?

372
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:58,200
Lodge members.

373
00:25:58,200 --> 00:25:59,200
Yes, yeah, lodges.

374
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:00,200
Yeah.

375
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,000
Like a gift of you.

376
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,120
That's where I thought I was.

377
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:06,740
I didn't even have any idea I was in an AA meeting.

378
00:26:06,740 --> 00:26:10,120
And he just said, you know what, just sit down here and we're going to get you a cup

379
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:12,600
of coffee and you want a donut.

380
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,720
And I was like, okay.

381
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,000
And that's how it happened for me.

382
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,800
And in Alcoholics Anonymous, that's called struck sober.

383
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:26,760
I had absolutely no intention of getting sober, staying sober.

384
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:32,080
And from that day to this, which will be 31 years I haven't had a drink.

385
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:40,200
So it is upon the kindness of strangers in AA that have the ability to see you and then

386
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,800
see the illness that you have separate.

387
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:52,800
It is imperative that there is no judgment when you are dealing with another fellow alcoholic.

388
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:57,680
That you are able to see the illness separate from the person.

389
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:04,640
Because once you start mixing that judgment and opinion and ego take over.

390
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:10,800
So he said, yeah, I'm going to introduce you to my friend Mary.

391
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,400
He pulled me right off to the women and the women started getting in my ear.

392
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:20,240
And then one day led to the next day and they, you know, Mary had a gaggle of women and they

393
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,160
started picking me up.

394
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:28,640
And I caught, you know, there's a saying in AA, they became my AA kidnappers, which means

395
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:32,960
they just took me, put me in the car and I would have a thousand questions.

396
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:33,960
Well, where are we going?

397
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:34,960
What are we doing?

398
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:36,320
Well, where the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

399
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,960
And they would say, oh yeah, we're going to take you out for pizza.

400
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:39,960
They lied to me.

401
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,800
They said, we're going to take you out for pizza.

402
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,520
And we're going to do, and I, okay.

403
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:49,400
And then I'd land up in a meeting of AA and I thought, well, you know, where's the pizza?

404
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,360
And they said, oh yeah, after the meeting.

405
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:54,080
We're going to the pizza after the meeting.

406
00:27:54,080 --> 00:28:00,480
Like they just didn't tell you because they knew that a person that was coming into Alcoholics

407
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,520
Anonymous for the first time was very ill.

408
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:09,600
I was really, I was a sick young lady and I had no idea how ill I was.

409
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,680
So they didn't answer a lot of questions.

410
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,280
They didn't do have a lot of explanation.

411
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:19,380
They just put me under their wing and drug me along.

412
00:28:19,380 --> 00:28:22,360
And that's how AA works.

413
00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:26,720
And that's why it's been working since 1935.

414
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:32,000
And now it's in 40 different countries with 40 different languages.

415
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,600
The big book is now published in 40 different countries.

416
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:36,960
I mean, it's amazing.

417
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:44,120
I think it's 3.6 million people worldwide that have recovered through AA.

418
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:53,200
I don't know any other program or organization that has those kinds of statistics that has

419
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:58,240
that big of a turnout that it works.

420
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:04,080
I mean, in my personal opinion, it's the biggest spiritual movement in the 20th century, honestly.

421
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,200
And it cost you a dollar.

422
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:07,520
A dollar in the basket.

423
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:13,320
And if you don't have it, don't steal it.

424
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:14,320
It's amazing to hear.

425
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:20,520
And I've heard so many, so many AA success stories.

426
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:21,520
I mean, incredible.

427
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:27,160
And even it's funny, I just about to go on a mini cruise with my son just for three days.

428
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,960
And we do a Royal Caribbean and every single cruise, every day they have a Friends of Bill

429
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,800
W meeting on the cruise even.

430
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:40,040
So that says how many people are, but I actually got to go to a meeting with one of my family

431
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:45,720
members who I think he's got three years sober now, life changing for him.

432
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:50,520
And it's amazing how evangelical people would come as well, not in a negative way, in a

433
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,920
purely positive way.

434
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:58,640
And so I went along with him to one of his meetings and it was incredible just seeing

435
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,760
the healing stories and seeing the support.

436
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:07,280
And when you talk about being led, it reminds me, and this is a completely different example,

437
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:15,280
but in CrossFit, if you can make it through the door of a CrossFit gym or any other gym,

438
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:16,840
then the instructors will lead you in.

439
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,160
You'll do the warmup.

440
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:19,640
You'll move the appropriate weight.

441
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,560
And when you're your first day, it might be a PVC pipe is all you're holding.

442
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:30,360
And then gradually, you'll find yourself being kind of going downstream in a positive way.

443
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,120
And it's that community and it seems like that's the same with what you're talking about.

444
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,960
What they built for us was simply trust, gave you a space that you felt comfortable enough

445
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:38,960
to start healing in.

446
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:43,040
Yes, absolutely.

447
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:48,840
They made you a part of, and there's so many beautiful sayings in Alcoholics Anonymous,

448
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:56,520
such like from Park Avenue to Park Bench, we will accept you and love you.

449
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,720
From jail to Yale, we will accept.

450
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:07,400
We don't care about your background, who you know, where you are in life, what your education

451
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,880
is, what your education isn't, your status.

452
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:13,320
We don't care about any of that.

453
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,080
What we care about is you getting better.

454
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:17,880
And that's why there's no last names.

455
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:23,560
That was the whole reason in the 1930s is because they wanted to stay anonymous, but

456
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:29,960
they also did not want to have last names because they did not want money, power and

457
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:37,200
prestige to influence the community and how we reach out to one another.

458
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:42,480
It's interesting paralleling that with the illicit drug addiction.

459
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,400
And I've had numerous people on here.

460
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,880
Another one that was amazing was Johann Hari, who wrote Chasing the Scream.

461
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:55,800
And what I've realized, and it's kind of ironic from a country that leans supposedly so deeply

462
00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:05,320
into religion, yet seems very un, what's the right word, Jesus-like, Buddha-like, etc.

463
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,120
when it comes to viewing addiction.

464
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:13,200
You know, shuffling homeless people off to a different part of the city or saying that

465
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,360
Narcan's a waste of money on an addict.

466
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:23,000
And it seems again that the AA side, I know there's an NA as well, but that philosophy

467
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,840
is really what we need with addiction, which is looking, like you said, the human and the

468
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,040
addiction at two different things.

469
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,360
And Johann says the opposite of addiction is not sobriety.

470
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:33,920
The opposite of addiction is connection.

471
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,760
And that's exactly what you're finding.

472
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:41,320
Yes, that's 100% true.

473
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:42,400
It's not sobriety.

474
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:52,840
Because if we could just put down the drink, if it was about the booze, then the moment

475
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,160
that you put it down, you would never pick it up again.

476
00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:00,160
So if you were allergic to strawberries and then you found out, oh my goodness, the strawberry

477
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:05,120
thing is killing me, you wouldn't eat strawberries anymore and you would just leave them alone.

478
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:06,160
Not with us.

479
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:11,480
So there's a mental twist that goes on that only the alcoholic knows about.

480
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,240
If you spot it, you got it type of thing.

481
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:20,920
And we can communicate with each other about putting the alcohol down and keeping it down.

482
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:26,880
And what makes people go back to drink again?

483
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,080
And it is that lack of connection.

484
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:36,720
Or the infiltration of the ego again, thinking that you can do it without people or that

485
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:44,000
you're better, whatever the ego tells you can lead you back to the original point where

486
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,960
you start drinking again.

487
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,520
So it's a whole personality change is really what happens.

488
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,320
But you have to sort of be crushed.

489
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:59,060
You have to really know in your innermost self that your way does not work.

490
00:33:59,060 --> 00:34:01,960
And then after that, the healing can begin.

491
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:10,440
I remember reflecting on this a long time ago, years ago, how crazy it is if you ate

492
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:17,480
a bad Chinese one time and there was shrimp that were off and you're puking everywhere

493
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:24,680
and ill for 24 hours, you would probably not touch shrimp again for a long, long time.

494
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:30,260
But how many of us will drink, say, I'm never drinking again, throwing up all over the hotel

495
00:34:30,260 --> 00:34:35,960
room or the bedroom, whatever it is, and then 24 hours later, Jones in for a drink again.

496
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:41,200
So the shrimp doesn't fill the void, but the alcohol fills a void.

497
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,200
That's the difference.

498
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:45,680
That's exactly right.

499
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:46,840
Yes.

500
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,120
There's a great speaker in Alcoholics Anonymous.

501
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:55,120
He's passed away, but he used to go all over the country and speak.

502
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,740
And his name was Sandy Beach, believe it or not.

503
00:34:57,740 --> 00:35:05,300
He was a pilot in World War II and he was just a really great guy.

504
00:35:05,300 --> 00:35:14,200
And one of his claims to fame was before he even picked up a drink, he felt this hole

505
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:19,760
in his soul, this part of himself that was just not connected.

506
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:24,180
And then when he joined the Air Force and he became a part of the guys and he started

507
00:35:24,180 --> 00:35:26,560
drinking that connection was instantly made.

508
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:33,120
So for us, we don't feel connected before the drink, but the drink connects us and then

509
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,400
turns on us.

510
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:42,000
So we constantly think that if we drink again, we'll feel connected, but that's really not

511
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,680
the answer.

512
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:49,520
The answer is getting connected to oneself and then you can connect to others.

513
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,240
You have to learn that in your own experience.

514
00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:54,500
You can't tell people about this.

515
00:35:54,500 --> 00:35:58,520
This is an experiential journey.

516
00:35:58,520 --> 00:35:59,640
You can guide them.

517
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,440
You can tell them your experience.

518
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,360
You can lend your hand.

519
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:10,140
You can do all that, but unless they can feel within themselves, there's little recovery

520
00:36:10,140 --> 00:36:14,440
until they desire it for themselves.

521
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,880
We'll get into the buy-in of what you do now with the first responder profession, but I

522
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:23,080
think that's what makes Bill's story so powerful is that he himself was an alcoholic.

523
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,240
Yes.

524
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:26,320
And he was a veteran.

525
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:27,320
Yes, exactly.

526
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,960
Well, speaking of that, another area before we kind of progress through that really blew

527
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:32,960
my mind.

528
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:40,200
One of my friends who is a veteran and then he entered the fire service, he was an alcoholic

529
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:41,520
before joining the military.

530
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,880
And again, he had that community at first, you know, and then they came to, I think the

531
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,680
way he describes it, he went through boot camp and went through a green beret selection,

532
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:52,080
went through the training.

533
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,440
Once they got to the green beret side and they got at the other end, now all the screaming

534
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,800
and shouting and drilling was over and they got to just kind of relax.

535
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:05,160
Well, he slipped back into alcoholism again, was in it for a few years, ended up deciding

536
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:06,600
to join the fire service again.

537
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:12,000
He finds this community and about 10 years when the newness has really worn off, he slips

538
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:13,000
back into alcoholism.

539
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,440
And that's really right before his drop again was where I met him.

540
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:21,240
So I met him before and then I met him, you know, when he was in crisis.

541
00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:25,720
And now he's, I think, four years sober, I think, amazing.

542
00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:31,000
And he runs a CrossFit class called Recovery RX where they get, you know, recovering addicts,

543
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,520
you know, anyone who wants to really come and they all work out together.

544
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,560
But it was amazing because he said that one of the books to change his life was called,

545
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,160
oh my goodness, The Introvert's Edge.

546
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,240
And I had the author of that on here as well.

547
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:44,240
Wow.

548
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:49,000
And the author described how you define an introvert versus an extrovert.

549
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,360
He said it's where you draw your energy.

550
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,680
And so I kind of thought myself as kind of mid, I guess, you know, one foot on each side.

551
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:02,440
But he said, if you need to go home, you know, get away from crowds, just be present with

552
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,880
your dog, your wife, your child, whatever it is, and that's where you draw your energy,

553
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:07,960
you're an introvert.

554
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:08,960
And that's me.

555
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,280
Like I'm fine being around crowds.

556
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,000
But when I hit that wall, you'll turn around and I'm gone.

557
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:19,200
If you truly draw your energy from large crowds and you are actually an extrovert, which I

558
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,040
would argue is very, very few of us.

559
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:27,600
But we have this image, this facade that everyone else is the life of the party and we're the

560
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,120
ones that are anxious.

561
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:35,280
And so I think this is another unspoken element of alcoholism or alcohol use is that so many

562
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:41,240
of us drink so that we can slide into that social gathering rather than realizing that

563
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:44,760
without alcohol, most of us would actually be feeling the same way.

564
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:45,760
And that's okay.

565
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:46,760
Mm hmm.

566
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:47,760
So true.

567
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:54,840
I mean, I think it was Ernest Hemingway that said there's violence in the quiet.

568
00:38:54,840 --> 00:39:03,360
So like your friend, you know, all that pump, all that stuff that we do to keep us busy

569
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,600
and that chaos and all that and keep us keeps us pumped.

570
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:15,440
And then once we settle down and it's just me and me, then, you know, a lot of things

571
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,000
come bubbling up.

572
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:21,640
And I think first responders, a lot of first, I see that in a lot of first responders for

573
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:22,640
sure.

574
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:23,640
Yeah.

575
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,840
Well, I think the thing about our profession, you just got a glimpse into it and this happened

576
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,000
with Chad, you know, it kept him busy.

577
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,560
It kept him occupied for 10 years.

578
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:37,800
And it's funny, the 10 year mark seems to be somewhat significant where we do, you know,

579
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,480
the fires aren't exciting anymore unless they're huge and as we're making entry to find, you

580
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,720
know, a trap child or something, most of them, we've seen them over and over again.

581
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:50,640
So there's this kind of, you know, it becomes less and less exciting.

582
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,760
And that's not that we're not learning and everyone, but we learned 100% on our first

583
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:55,760
day.

584
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,860
You know, we might learn 30% 10 years from now on that call.

585
00:39:59,860 --> 00:40:03,080
So but you've got a lot of these and this was definitely the case with Chad, there was

586
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,080
childhood sexual abuse and all kinds of things.

587
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,960
A lot of those individuals are sent into uniform.

588
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:15,600
They want to be the protector, you know, but also I think unconsciously they're seeking

589
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:21,200
that adrenaline because that totally consumes them until, like you said, there's that quiet.

590
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,860
It might be retirement, it might be an injury, it might be being fired or it might just be

591
00:40:25,860 --> 00:40:27,720
a certain point in your career.

592
00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:31,760
But just like you said, that's when all that stuff bubbles.

593
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:36,160
And then they say, oh, it's because you were at that car crash and it's not.

594
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:37,400
It's death by a thousand cuts.

595
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,240
It was all the other things that led up to that.

596
00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:41,400
Amen to that.

597
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,920
But they don't understand that in the beginning.

598
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:51,080
I didn't understand it in the beginning, but I had a sponsor, her name was Sally Blatherwick,

599
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,080
God rest her soul.

600
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:59,400
She was one of the most influential women in my sobriety.

601
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:04,840
She sponsored me from year five to I think year 16.

602
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:09,920
And she used to say to me all the time, I didn't understand what this meant, but she

603
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,460
used to say to me all the time, you know, Lisa, you know what I call you?

604
00:41:13,460 --> 00:41:15,480
I call you the busy.

605
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,400
You keep yourself nice and busy, don't you?

606
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:24,320
And I couldn't, I didn't grasp that for many years because after five years I was like,

607
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:25,720
oh, I got to go back to school.

608
00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:27,080
I got to get my own business.

609
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:32,200
I have to, you know, ambition and money and power and prestige and I want my own this

610
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:33,480
and I want to do that.

611
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,600
And I all of these goals and blah, blah, blah, blah.

612
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:42,600
And she said, there's going to come a time when all that's accomplished and then you're

613
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,520
going to be looking at you once again.

614
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:48,960
And then maybe we can do the work.

615
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:55,040
And what they mean by the work in Alcoholics Anonymous is the spiritual work that's needed

616
00:41:55,040 --> 00:42:03,680
in order for you to take a look at your own liabilities and your own assets and look within

617
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:10,680
to see what is it about myself that I constantly have to be busy, that I have to achieve, that

618
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:11,680
I have to.

619
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:19,000
Why can't I just sit and just be okay up here in the quiet?

620
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:23,360
And I mean, spiritual sages talk about this.

621
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:31,920
You know, I think in the Bible Christ said, if you can conquer the world, if you can conquer

622
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,320
yourself, you can conquer the world.

623
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:39,100
So conquering your own mind and your own thoughts and knowing what's wrong in your assets and

624
00:42:39,100 --> 00:42:42,380
your liability is just imperative.

625
00:42:42,380 --> 00:42:48,800
In my particular case, for staying sober, to be extremely self-aware and know how I

626
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:54,160
tick is very important to my sobriety.

627
00:42:54,160 --> 00:43:00,400
Well you mentioned about chasing some of the things that we're told to chase by the outside

628
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,920
world, whether it's prestige, money, et cetera.

629
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,120
What industries did that take you into?

630
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:17,880
Well, after I got sober, I was in the jewelry business and I'm a gemologist by trade, so

631
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:19,800
that's what I did for a long time.

632
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:25,800
And then I figured, well, you know, now that I'm sober, a couple things need to happen.

633
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,520
I have to get married, that's one.

634
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,080
Next thing, I got to open up my own business, that's two.

635
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,560
I got to go back and do my studies, that's three.

636
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:41,000
You know, and who is going to say that they are not great goals?

637
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,240
They're goals, they're good goals to have.

638
00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:48,680
But for Lisa, they were distractions of my own personal pain.

639
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:53,240
So I did all those things.

640
00:43:53,240 --> 00:44:01,040
I opened my own business, I was the only female jeweler on Jewelers Row out of, in a very

641
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:02,560
Jewish era.

642
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:08,720
I'm the only Irish kid, Irish female in an all Jewish industry.

643
00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:14,080
And I was the only female store owner out of 44 stores down there.

644
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:18,320
So I felt like that was an accomplishment and my business was doing well.

645
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:24,520
And I met somebody in Alcoholics Anonymous and I got married and I accomplished the things

646
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:25,800
that I set out to do.

647
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:30,480
And then once they were accomplished, I was like, okay, well, now what?

648
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,040
What am I going to do now?

649
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:35,040
What, what?

650
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:41,480
So there was like this, what they, what Sandy Beach calls the hole in the soul.

651
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:50,120
And I think that for me personally, it's always this lack of connection to God that will keep

652
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,600
me chasing my tail.

653
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,520
And I mean God in a very broad sense.

654
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,720
I'm not talking about religion whatsoever.

655
00:44:56,720 --> 00:45:03,760
I'm just talking about a creative intelligence, a creative force that I can rely on and that

656
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:04,760
I trust.

657
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:11,400
And that took a long time for me to really trust in a power greater than myself.

658
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:17,760
And that probably was one of the biggest challenges in my sobriety through Alcoholics Anonymous,

659
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:23,600
to not only find a God, but to rely on Him to trust that God.

660
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:34,400
So there's a saying in AA about trust, believing in God is like when you're at a carnival

661
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:40,720
and you see the guy on the tightrope that holds the pole and he goes over on the tightrope

662
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:46,520
and sometimes his foot slips out and the whole audience goes like, oh my God, he's going

663
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:47,520
to fall.

664
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,760
And then you think to yourself, well, he's done this 300 times.

665
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,960
I'm sure he's going to get to the other side.

666
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:56,720
That's called faith.

667
00:45:56,720 --> 00:46:03,640
But trust is coming out of the bleachers and climbing right on top of that man's shoulders

668
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,080
and being there with him.

669
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:06,080
That's trust.

670
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:13,480
Like when you have skin in the game, that's more trust and that you can let that person

671
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:19,280
navigate your life when you're on the pole.

672
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:24,880
So it's a completely different experience to have faith and then to have trust in that

673
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,920
faith and trust in that higher power.

674
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:33,040
And that took me a long time, a long time.

675
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:39,880
And a lot of reading and a lot of going, you know, I went to Portugal and I sat with a

676
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:46,260
man named Mugee who was a spiritual teacher and I've done countless and countless and

677
00:46:46,260 --> 00:46:50,800
countless of workshops and conventions.

678
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:58,280
I knocked on the door of Michael Sanger, who was the author of this Surrender Experiment.

679
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,720
And he had even more of a famous book.

680
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:07,640
I forget the book, but the Surrender Experiment was really pivotal for me.

681
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,480
And I knocked on his door and was just like, you know, can I sit with you?

682
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,560
Can I talk to you?

683
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:20,360
And me and a friend went to Portugal and we, you know, I was always seeking for something

684
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:27,200
spiritual within me and I had no idea, this will make me cry too, but I had no idea that

685
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:33,800
the love and the acceptance and the connection that I was always looking for outside myself,

686
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:37,480
I was looking for me the entire time.

687
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:43,520
It's so simple and it's so well hidden.

688
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:44,520
It's so well hidden.

689
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,320
I had to become my own best friend.

690
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:53,360
I had to feel the connection within myself and become whole and heal that part of myself

691
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,560
before I could really give it to another.

692
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,200
It's interesting.

693
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:02,200
I'm curious of your answer to this.

694
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:07,680
You did this, you know, literally global spiritual journey.

695
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,920
And one of my favorite people, I don't know if you ever came across him, but he lost his

696
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,400
life to leukemia sadly, but Wayne Dyer.

697
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:16,400
Oh.

698
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:17,400
Yeah.

699
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:24,120
So what I loved about Wayne was he would take all of ancient wisdom from the holy text to,

700
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,040
you know, ancient Greek philosophy.

701
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:33,040
I mean, all the things from literally every single country pretty much and basically extract

702
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:37,940
the common denominators, the real goodness, kindness, gratitude, empathy.

703
00:48:37,940 --> 00:48:44,960
And so I had a real kind of aha moment because I've been exposed to Christianity specifically

704
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:51,320
and it just didn't resonate with me personally, especially when certain things like, you know,

705
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,920
God loves you all unless you're gay, of course, you know, and I'm like, okay, wait, what?

706
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,340
That just didn't for me personally, James Gearing, I'm like, that's not the God that

707
00:48:58,340 --> 00:49:00,080
I know.

708
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:07,860
So realizing that a universal God, like you said, that a religious God that I see in nature

709
00:49:07,860 --> 00:49:14,600
that I see in, you know, a newborn, the real miracle of life, realizing that you can make

710
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,560
your own version, that you can take a little bit of Buddhism, a little bit of Christianity,

711
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:22,400
a little bit of, you know, I had to change whatever it is.

712
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:27,200
And that's at the, you don't hear that very much that you don't have to go and conform

713
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,360
to a certain religion if it doesn't fit for you.

714
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,680
If it does beautiful, knock yourself out.

715
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:37,840
But I have a hybrid version and the tenants are all the same kindness, compassion, gratitude,

716
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:46,080
I mean, I like to say don't be a dick pretty much summarizes my religious, you know, philosophy.

717
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:47,080
That's awesome.

718
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:51,840
It's interesting that you bring up Wayne Dyer because there is, I don't know if you've ever

719
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:53,280
heard of Hay House Publication.

720
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,520
Yes, Louise Hay, is that right?

721
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:03,280
So she used to do these cruises while her publication did the cruise is called I Do

722
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:04,280
What It See.

723
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,620
I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but this was like maybe 15 years ago.

724
00:50:07,620 --> 00:50:10,440
Maybe I don't know, a little less than that.

725
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:15,400
And she would have all the greats on these cruises like Cheryl Richardson and Eckhart

726
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:24,640
Tolle and Wayne Dyer and Carolyn Mace, all these very spiritual people on the cruises.

727
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,960
And then you would get to do their workshops while you're on the cruise.

728
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:36,080
Well, I went on a couple of them and I actually met Wayne Dyer and we were on an excursion

729
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,400
together and I said, you know, can we have dinner with you?

730
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:39,920
Can we sit at your table tonight?

731
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:45,840
So me and a friend of mine, we sat at his table and we were just sort of picking his

732
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:46,840
brain.

733
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,940
We only got about a half hour with him because everyone, everybody wanted he was promoting

734
00:50:50,940 --> 00:50:52,560
a new book.

735
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,040
So everybody wanted to sit with him.

736
00:50:55,040 --> 00:51:02,720
But you know, one of his claims to fame was, I forget the saying, if you change the way

737
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:07,840
that you look at things, the way that you look at things change.

738
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:14,080
That was, you know, like the Wayne Dyer quotation.

739
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,680
And he was just an amazing guy.

740
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:22,440
He was, I don't know if you know anything about his backstory of being a father of eight

741
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:28,520
children and he had a lot of tur, you know, he was also alcoholic, recovering alcoholic.

742
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:32,320
So yeah, so you're right.

743
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:37,680
I have been spiritually seeking probably since the day I got sober because I knew that there

744
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:44,880
was something about that that I just was kept, I was just really drawn to over and over and

745
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:45,880
over again.

746
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:46,880
Beautiful.

747
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:47,880
Yeah.

748
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,760
There's not very many people that recognize his name, which is a shame because I mean,

749
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,640
firstly, if I'd started this a few years earlier, you know, I would have loved to have got him

750
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:54,640
on.

751
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:56,800
But I mean, just absolutely pivotal to me.

752
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:02,520
And ironically, my previous wife had mentioned him because he was on Oprah one time.

753
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:03,960
She said, Oh, you go listen to this man.

754
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,880
And this that man, it ultimately prepared me spiritually and emotionally for the divorce

755
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,280
that would come a couple of years later.

756
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:11,960
There was infidelity and stuff.

757
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,600
And, you know, we're moved on remarried, you know, no regret.

758
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:22,360
But at that point, you know, his, his work absolutely gave me the tools to process the

759
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:27,040
trauma that I went through with my little boy and, you know, moving on as a single father.

760
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,720
So, you know, it's a shame that I can't thank him personally.

761
00:52:30,720 --> 00:52:32,040
Yes, yes.

762
00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:35,400
He was he helped many, including myself.

763
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,640
He helped many, many people, many people.

764
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:39,640
Yeah.

765
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:45,720
So, well, you have this kind of awakening now, this realization you're in this world

766
00:52:45,720 --> 00:52:50,640
where you're very successful in the ways that we're told to be successful.

767
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,160
What's the shift next?

768
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:58,640
So well, I really had.

769
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,400
Okay, so I'm eight years sober now.

770
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,000
I'm married.

771
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:08,920
I have my own jewelry store in Philadelphia that's doing well.

772
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,520
We started coming out of the red into the black.

773
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,000
I'm making more money.

774
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,480
I moved to New Jersey.

775
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:20,600
I get this, you know, custom building this house.

776
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:22,080
The money's coming in.

777
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:26,600
I'm feeling good, you know, about myself.

778
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:32,520
But the marriage that I'm in is disintegrating because it was never really built on any kind

779
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:33,520
of foundation.

780
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,420
It was really built on need rather.

781
00:53:36,420 --> 00:53:41,760
I didn't know who I was and I don't think he knew who he was and we sort of trauma bonded

782
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,360
if you know what that term means.

783
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:49,640
And it's almost like the universe is trying to catch your attention.

784
00:53:49,640 --> 00:54:01,440
The universe will put you together with someone if you're unhealed to sort of say like, hey,

785
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:05,640
McFly, you got a problem here, McFly, because it keeps coming up.

786
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:12,240
You'll keep on bumping into the same lesson over and over and over again until it's healed.

787
00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:15,640
That's just the way the universe works in my life.

788
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,000
So there was this trauma bond going on between him and I.

789
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,360
I wasn't really doing the work that I needed, but I didn't know that.

790
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:26,640
And either there was no blame.

791
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:32,240
And I remember specifically, I just bought a brand new Lexus, drove it out of the showroom

792
00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:36,320
floor and I'm going and at the time I was living in New Jersey.

793
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:40,800
I was working in Philadelphia and I'm driving over the Benjamin Franklin Bridge.

794
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:48,640
And I thought, you know what, I wonder how I can get the airbag out of the steering wheel.

795
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:56,040
You know, maybe I just and one thing I know about suicidal ideations is that they come

796
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,880
out of nowhere, out of nowhere.

797
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:04,080
You're eating a grilled cheese sandwich and then all of a sudden you're like, you know

798
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,640
what, maybe I want to check out, you know.

799
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:12,640
And as I'm going over the bridge, it scared me that I started thinking like this.

800
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,720
I was like, what the hell is going on?

801
00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:18,560
Because now I'm sober, right?

802
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:22,280
Financially doing better than I've ever done in my life.

803
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:26,520
I'm married, I have a beautiful home, live New Jersey.

804
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:34,200
I have like, if you looked on me, if you looked at me at eight or nine years sober, you would

805
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,760
have said, look, man, AA works.

806
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:37,760
Look at that woman.

807
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:39,200
She's got it all going on.

808
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:40,200
Right.

809
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,320
But inside I was dying.

810
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,400
I was dying.

811
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:50,640
The hole that I was trying to fill was getting wider and wider.

812
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:57,800
The more things of the outside that I was trying to put in, you know, the money, the

813
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:04,240
power, the prestige, the lake house, the vacations, the men, the relationships that I got to have,

814
00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:09,480
I got to have, I got to have.

815
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:15,320
And I started really not wanting to live and not knowing why.

816
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,760
So one day I went to a meeting.

817
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:25,200
This is actually how me and my mentor really started to get close because she was sponsoring

818
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:29,300
me a couple of years then, but it was sort of surfacey.

819
00:56:29,300 --> 00:56:37,040
She was celebrating 25 years and I went to her celebration and I was sitting there and

820
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:41,320
I went up to her after our celebration and I said, listen, Sally, I need to speak with

821
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:42,320
you.

822
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:46,840
I'm not really feeling that well, you know, I'm not.

823
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:48,840
And she just, she did one of these.

824
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:52,720
She said, Lisa, I already know what's going on with you.

825
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:54,480
And this is exactly what she did to me.

826
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,960
She goes, this is where the busy come from.

827
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:58,220
She goes, you know what?

828
00:56:58,220 --> 00:57:03,500
I call you the busy chasing your tail, chasing your tail.

829
00:57:03,500 --> 00:57:05,800
She said to me, are you done yet?

830
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:06,800
I said, am I, what do you mean?

831
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:07,800
Am I done yet?

832
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:09,880
She said, are you done yet?

833
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:12,280
Are you willing to do what's needed?

834
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:17,720
In this program to feel better about who you are.

835
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:19,600
I don't care about your store.

836
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:21,480
I don't care about your house.

837
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,640
I don't care about your car.

838
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:24,640
Care about your career.

839
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:26,000
I don't care about any of that.

840
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,600
I care about your soul and how you feel about you.

841
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:33,000
And you know, the water works instantly.

842
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:38,880
And she said to me, I want you to be at my house tomorrow at 12 o'clock on Lake Avenue.

843
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:44,960
I had already been through the steps and I had already been through the, and I was actually

844
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,720
sponsoring women.

845
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:50,760
I'd already been through the steps, already been through the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous.

846
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:52,080
I said, I already did that.

847
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,840
I already, you know, you're what you're asking me to do.

848
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:55,840
I've already done.

849
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:59,800
She said, you didn't, you didn't do anything.

850
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:06,920
So when I got there, she had a little makeup mirror on the kitchen table.

851
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:10,920
She pushed it over and she said, take a look, take a look in the mirror.

852
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:16,120
And I was, you know, at the time I was like, oh, you know, rolling my eyes like, oh, it's

853
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:19,300
what gurus do, you know.

854
00:58:19,300 --> 00:58:24,800
Very judgmental and opinionated and full of self-arrogance and ignorance.

855
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:25,880
I had no idea.

856
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:30,200
And I looked in the mirror and she said to me, see, that's your problem, my dear.

857
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:32,280
You've been sober for a long time now.

858
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:33,680
Eight years, right?

859
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:35,960
So your problem is no longer booze.

860
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,400
Your problem is you.

861
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:40,640
And that really caught my attention.

862
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:45,480
And what they call that, what I was going through at that time, and I didn't know it,

863
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:48,720
was called a second surrender.

864
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:53,020
See, first when you come into AA is your first surrender.

865
00:58:53,020 --> 00:58:54,220
You surrender the booze.

866
00:58:54,220 --> 00:59:01,240
You surrender the ego to some extent.

867
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:07,880
You surrender, you know, having booze to totally take over your life.

868
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:10,000
You get your life back.

869
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,040
You get the things that you want in life.

870
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:19,480
And then once that's accomplished and you find out that that's not the answer, another

871
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:25,040
surrender needs to, another layer, another surrender needs to happen for you to really

872
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,040
understand what's going on with you.

873
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:32,720
And that's, I had a second surrender.

874
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:39,040
And then I was on, the trajectory of my life started to really change when I started to

875
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:42,840
seek spiritual help.

876
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:46,360
So what did that second chapter look like then?

877
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:53,840
So I went through the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous again, and we started from scratch.

878
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:59,560
And you know, the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, in my opinion, is like a living, breathing

879
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,320
piece of literature.

880
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:06,320
Because every time I read, even now today, when I take girls through the steps or through

881
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:12,000
the book, I'd be like, how did I not, I've been looking at this book for 30 years.

882
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,600
How did I not see that?

883
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,160
How did I not, how did that not resonate?

884
01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:21,880
Because it jumps out and resonates with you at the time that it's supposed to resonate

885
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:23,500
with you.

886
01:00:23,500 --> 01:00:26,080
And so we went through the book again.

887
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:29,800
I think it was like a four month, we did a big book study.

888
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:32,320
It was like four months.

889
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:35,440
And we went through that whole thing again.

890
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:42,800
And then I started sort of going out on my own and started reading a lot of spiritual

891
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:48,120
literature and going to a lot of, you know, knocking on doors.

892
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:52,480
I mean, I knocked on Michael Sanger's door, for Christ's sake, and you know, sort of

893
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:53,800
like, can I have lunch with you?

894
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,060
He was like, huh?

895
01:00:56,060 --> 01:01:03,920
And I just started seeking and seeking and seeking until I started to feel better.

896
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:10,660
And I got a better understanding of what was going on with me.

897
01:01:10,660 --> 01:01:15,440
And those suicidal ideations, those thoughts of ending my life dissipated.

898
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:18,560
It started getting less and getting less.

899
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:22,600
I was just, you know, Dr. Joe Dispenza, I don't know if you've ever heard of him.

900
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:26,640
He's one of the great teachers of today.

901
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:29,400
And he's all about Beth, actually.

902
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,680
Yeah, spiritual guy.

903
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:35,080
And so I started down that journey and I just ate it up.

904
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:44,240
Anything that I could read, anything that I could go to, cruises and conventions and,

905
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:49,860
you know, flying to different places to sit with different people, I did that.

906
01:01:49,860 --> 01:01:52,560
So now you're exposed to the world of breath.

907
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,880
And it's funny because he's been mentioned, I asked for guest suggestions at the end and

908
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:57,280
he was literally mentioned the other day.

909
01:01:57,280 --> 01:02:00,960
And I'm again, in that kind of Hay House world that I was in.

910
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:08,140
I remember him being kind of in that too, the kind of Gaia, you know, holistic world.

911
01:02:08,140 --> 01:02:12,040
So walk me through now your journey into the world of breath work.

912
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:13,240
Okay.

913
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:20,360
So while this was all happening in my life, I have what they call, I had what they call

914
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:28,160
complex grief trauma, which means that people start dying one after the other and you can't

915
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:31,160
even get your head above water and then another person dies.

916
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:36,000
That is like you're either your family of origin or people that you love and care about.

917
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:38,580
And that's what started to happen.

918
01:02:38,580 --> 01:02:44,620
I had a brother that passed away at four years sober and then I had a father who was going

919
01:02:44,620 --> 01:02:49,400
through prostate cancer and then another brother that passed away shortly after that.

920
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:54,320
And then my father died and then my sponsor Sally died and then my cat, believe it or

921
01:02:54,320 --> 01:03:01,360
not, of 18 years died and that was this when my cat went, oh, and people were, I'm sure

922
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:05,960
people were like her cat died and we have to, she may have to go into a rubber room,

923
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:06,960
you know.

924
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:12,960
And what I didn't understand, it was all of these traumas, this grief put together.

925
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:17,640
So I'm staying sober through all this.

926
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:23,080
You know, death after death after death after death, I'm staying sober and I'm making my

927
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:27,640
meetings and I'm raising my hand and I'm saying something's wrong with me and it ain't about

928
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:29,080
booze.

929
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:34,160
Somebody helped me but, and a person came up to me and said to me, you know, why don't

930
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,760
you try this breath work stuff?

931
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:38,840
And I just rolled my eyes.

932
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:44,240
What I really heard was, why don't you try a little yoga, young lady, you know.

933
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:48,320
And you know, I was like, oh, this is not happening.

934
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:56,760
So lo and behold, I had moved to Florida and that marriage ended, the marriage that I was

935
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:04,660
in New Jersey, it ended and I moved to Florida and there was a woman down here that was having

936
01:04:04,660 --> 01:04:10,720
these breath work seminars but I was always open up to different things.

937
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:12,400
So thank God I was.

938
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:16,880
So I was like, you know what, you know, someone said to me, let's try this and I said, okay.

939
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:23,520
So I went over, she was having this in her living room and I was told to bring a blanket,

940
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:27,080
a pillow and an eye mask and to go over and ba ba ba.

941
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:35,940
So I did my very first breath work session and one session changed my entire life, changed

942
01:04:35,940 --> 01:04:38,560
my entire life.

943
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:41,680
I left there without grief.

944
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:47,520
Now I don't know if that was a white light spiritual experience of what happened to me.

945
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:54,240
I'm not even sure what happened but I can tell you that I walked in there heavy and

946
01:04:54,240 --> 01:05:06,160
extremely sad about all the losses and I left there probably 75% better in one session.

947
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:12,120
And believe it or not, as mystical as this is going to sound, when I was in the breath,

948
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:18,280
my brother Danny came to me, he was big in disco, you know, he was like Donnie Ontario

949
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:26,960
and he came to me in his disco outfit and I could see him vividly and he had a disco ball

950
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:30,840
on top of his head and I'm breathing.

951
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:36,320
And you know, if you, if you, dispensers work talks about how, you know, the pineal

952
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:42,600
blank gets opened up and universal consciousness can come in within, within your body when

953
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:44,040
you're breathing.

954
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:47,520
So you can have all these experiences and I'm having this experience.

955
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:53,520
My brother comes to me and he says to me, hey sis, what's all the hubbub about and all

956
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:55,800
this blither and crying.

957
01:05:55,800 --> 01:06:01,200
I've been with you, you know, since the beginning of time.

958
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:07,760
And if he did not come to me with the personality that he had in his life, I would have never

959
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:10,860
believed it was true.

960
01:06:10,860 --> 01:06:15,080
And it felt like, I mean, I could smell his cologne.

961
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:18,200
It was bizarre what happened to me.

962
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:24,760
When I left there, I was like, oh, what, what, what I got to find out about this.

963
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:28,840
So a friend of mine, her name is Dr. Coleman.

964
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:32,320
She's a psychotherapist, wonderful psychotherapist.

965
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:36,880
And she said to me, oh yeah, I heard about this breath thing.

966
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:38,840
It's like in South Florida now.

967
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:40,000
You want to go with me?

968
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:46,480
And we started this journey together and then she found a woman in Arizona.

969
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:56,200
Her name is Carol Lampman, who did, she specialized in what they called integral breathwork therapy.

970
01:06:56,200 --> 01:07:02,200
Now this is a little different because holotropic breath, what I first experienced was about

971
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:05,640
breathing in and out and having an experience.

972
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:12,680
For Carol's work was about trauma and about the inner child and about family of origin

973
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:20,940
and about how trauma and breath can be combined to release in a way that it does not cause

974
01:07:20,940 --> 01:07:21,940
emotional pain.

975
01:07:21,940 --> 01:07:24,200
Now I didn't know this at the time.

976
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:26,060
I found out this later.

977
01:07:26,060 --> 01:07:28,360
So one thing led to another.

978
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:33,640
And Susie and I decided to join up for her level one class.

979
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:38,760
We flew to Arizona, we did all the work with Carol.

980
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:44,960
And as soon as I met Carol and I started to do this work with her and started to learn

981
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:52,880
about IBT therapy, I was like, oh my God, this is something.

982
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:59,840
And then she had her advanced courses and her master level courses and I just kept going

983
01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:03,600
back, kept going back and getting more certifications and more.

984
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:07,040
Just learning more about the breath.

985
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:15,040
And then I ran into a friend of mine who knew the owner at FHE Health.

986
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:20,000
And my friend told the owner, listen, you have to meet this woman, Lisa Lowe.

987
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:23,800
She does this breathwork, blah, blah, blah.

988
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:25,780
So he said, okay, let's set it up.

989
01:08:25,780 --> 01:08:31,360
So I met Sharif and I remember my first encounter with him.

990
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:35,640
He was like, so tell me, what do you do?

991
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:37,240
And I was like, well, I do breathwork.

992
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:39,260
He's like, well, we're all breathing here.

993
01:08:39,260 --> 01:08:43,720
So you have to get a little bit more detailed than that.

994
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:44,880
So I tried to explain.

995
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:51,960
Now breathwork is, again, very experiential, very difficult to explain.

996
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:54,400
So I'm explaining to him and I'm explaining to him.

997
01:08:54,400 --> 01:09:00,520
And basically after maybe 40 minutes of talking to him and explaining to him, he basically

998
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:02,720
said to me, listen, I'm not right.

999
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:07,120
I don't really understand what you do, but I can tell you this much.

1000
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:10,120
Your passion about what you do.

1001
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:15,800
Now that has me interested about how passionate you feel about this.

1002
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:21,320
So how about we take you on, we give you like this trial run and we'll see what happens.

1003
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:23,760
And I was like, okay, like out of nowhere.

1004
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,720
And voila, I've been there ever since.

1005
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:29,960
That was about six years ago.

1006
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:31,920
And breathwork really took off.

1007
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:38,920
I mean, I started taking blankets and pillows out of my car and it just kept getting bigger

1008
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:40,440
and bigger and bigger.

1009
01:09:40,440 --> 01:09:50,320
And Sharif was kind enough to just almost like completely renovate a building just for

1010
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:53,680
breathwork therapy because it works.

1011
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:55,240
It works.

1012
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:57,520
IBT therapy works.

1013
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:01,480
And I've been there for six years now.

1014
01:10:01,480 --> 01:10:06,960
I've had, I mean, quite a spectrum of guests when it comes to breathwork in general.

1015
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:12,960
Everyone from Patrick McCowan, who's big on the nasal breathing side and then Wim Hof.

1016
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:15,480
I mean, he needs no introduction.

1017
01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:16,880
Belisa Vranich.

1018
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:22,700
So different people, different methods, different kind of principles behind what they're even

1019
01:10:22,700 --> 01:10:23,920
trying to achieve.

1020
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:25,600
Is it downregulation of nervous system?

1021
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:27,080
Is it addressing trauma?

1022
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:30,320
So talk to me about the specific techniques that you're doing.

1023
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:32,440
And you talked about trauma.

1024
01:10:32,440 --> 01:10:34,880
What are the outcomes?

1025
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:39,440
What is it that that person is, what does the journey look like?

1026
01:10:39,440 --> 01:10:43,840
I guess is what I'm trying to say for a person walking through the door to hopefully having

1027
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:47,000
that 75% realization that you did.

1028
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:48,400
Okay.

1029
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:53,640
So I'm just going to talk about a case study that I did while I was at FHA.

1030
01:10:53,640 --> 01:10:55,160
There was a veteran there.

1031
01:10:55,160 --> 01:11:00,280
I can't give out his name, but his first name was Ted.

1032
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:02,560
And Ted had three tours.

1033
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:07,440
He was in Afghanistan twice and I believe Syria.

1034
01:11:07,440 --> 01:11:19,120
And he was, I'm not sure, but I think in Fallujah, which was one of the worst of the worst.

1035
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:25,280
I met him and I started breathing with him.

1036
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:30,560
Now integral breath work therapy is a circular breath.

1037
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:31,560
Okay.

1038
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:39,600
So you're breathing in and out through the mouth.

1039
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:40,600
Okay.

1040
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:44,000
No nasal breathing whatsoever in and out through the mouth.

1041
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:48,540
And it's not hyperventilation without any pausing.

1042
01:11:48,540 --> 01:11:53,160
So when you're breathing, if you're closing your eyes and you can just imagine that circular

1043
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:57,540
breath, it comes up and you just start this rhythm.

1044
01:11:57,540 --> 01:12:02,680
And I would say by five or six minutes into it, you're going to start to feel that your

1045
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:07,980
lungs actually start breathing the body instead of the other way around.

1046
01:12:07,980 --> 01:12:12,000
You're laying on a mat or you're in a zero gravity chair and you're breathing.

1047
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:18,800
Now when I met Teddy, I said to him, listen, how about if we breathe?

1048
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:26,360
And he was very nervous, very nervous to even close his eyes was a big deal.

1049
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:30,080
We were in a room and he started with the breath work.

1050
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:33,440
Well, within three minutes he had such a reaction.

1051
01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:42,760
I mean, he was crying and sobbing and just could not stop the tears and just, you know,

1052
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:45,300
on and on and on.

1053
01:12:45,300 --> 01:12:49,720
And I just sat with him and I didn't ask him too many questions.

1054
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:56,120
I sort of just held his hand and he just saw probably for 20 minutes and once and his body

1055
01:12:56,120 --> 01:13:00,820
was, you know, we talk about the nervous system in the breath.

1056
01:13:00,820 --> 01:13:07,400
He was in fight and flight and freeze for so long and the hypervigilance was so embedded

1057
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:13,880
in his cells that, you know, once the breath started hitting the nervous system, he was

1058
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:17,160
releasing all of this.

1059
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:22,840
And you know, if a clinical doctor was in that room, they probably would have been calling

1060
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:26,420
911, but I knew what was going on with him.

1061
01:13:26,420 --> 01:13:31,200
I knew what was going on and he was just shaking and getting it out and shaking and I just

1062
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:32,320
sat with him.

1063
01:13:32,320 --> 01:13:39,680
And after all this was done, I physically walked him out of my breath work studio.

1064
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:45,360
I sat him down on the bench, got him some water and I said, just sit here until you're

1065
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:48,400
okay and ba ba ba ba ba.

1066
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:56,120
And I thought, wow, you know, this guy really, he's got a lot of stuff.

1067
01:13:56,120 --> 01:14:06,300
So the nursing came out, he had to be taken to do some, they had to do a biome or something

1068
01:14:06,300 --> 01:14:08,000
with him, I remember.

1069
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:12,120
And I went out and I said, Teddy, we'll talk again as soon as you're done with this, I'm

1070
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:14,560
going to come in and check on you.

1071
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:20,600
So I remember prior to going to check on him, I thought, oh God, I hope he's okay.

1072
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:25,140
Like, whoo, he had quite the experience, you know, like.

1073
01:14:25,140 --> 01:14:29,600
So when I talked to him, he said to me, when can I do it again?

1074
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:31,880
And I was like, when can you?

1075
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:38,640
Like he was slobbering, crying and like almost halfway puking and he was like, when can we

1076
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:40,480
have another appointment?

1077
01:14:40,480 --> 01:14:42,480
And I was like, are you okay?

1078
01:14:42,480 --> 01:14:46,320
And he's like, oh no, I feel amazing.

1079
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:47,720
I feel amazing.

1080
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:48,720
What did you do?

1081
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:50,440
I said, I didn't do anything.

1082
01:14:50,440 --> 01:14:51,440
The breath did it.

1083
01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:53,560
He's like, when can we do this again?

1084
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:59,040
So make a long, long story short, I probably breathed with him probably about 12 different

1085
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:00,760
individual sessions.

1086
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:08,720
Now one of the greatest things that happened to him in Afghanistan was Afghanistan, I didn't

1087
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:15,160
know any of this, but the veterans will know that they used to get their children to throw

1088
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:18,680
grenades at the Humvees, okay?

1089
01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:24,320
The Afghanistan people and they would send like six or eight people, six or eight children

1090
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:31,560
at and they would give some of these kids rocks and then they would give that one kid

1091
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:32,640
a grenade.

1092
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:37,660
Now the American troops knew about this because they were getting blown up.

1093
01:15:37,660 --> 01:15:47,440
So it was a big deal for and the Afghanistan people knew that it was a huge deal for American

1094
01:15:47,440 --> 01:15:50,120
soldiers to shoot a child.

1095
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:54,200
So that's why they did this, unfortunately.

1096
01:15:54,200 --> 01:16:01,480
Anyway, the story goes is that there was about 10 people on Ted's Humvee and they would draw

1097
01:16:01,480 --> 01:16:07,160
straws in the morning because their particular job was to go out like recon, I think it's

1098
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:12,520
called reconnaissance, going figure out like where the enemy is, write it all down, then

1099
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:15,880
come back and then figure out a plan.

1100
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:24,880
So they would draw straws in the morning, which one would eliminate a child if need

1101
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:26,000
be.

1102
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:30,960
Now at the time, Ted had children.

1103
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:37,520
So the other guys were very apprehensive if he got the straw because they were afraid

1104
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:42,000
that he would not be able to do it because it's such a horrendous, horrific thing to

1105
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:43,000
do.

1106
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:51,800
So lo and behold, he had to eliminate a target and she was 12 years old.

1107
01:16:51,800 --> 01:17:01,800
She was wearing a Hello Kitty backpack and they used to put these kids with C4 on their

1108
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:03,720
back as well.

1109
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:05,480
And he had eliminated a target.

1110
01:17:05,480 --> 01:17:07,520
He jumped off of his Humvee.

1111
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:13,720
He ran over and found out that the target that he eliminated with the Hello Kitty backpack,

1112
01:17:13,720 --> 01:17:17,360
it just had pencils and papers.

1113
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:18,960
So he had to live with this.

1114
01:17:18,960 --> 01:17:22,840
Now he told no one about this.

1115
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:25,960
Only the guys on the Humvee knew about it.

1116
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:30,280
And what happens in war like that is just not shared about.

1117
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:33,680
I had no idea what veterans went through.

1118
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:38,960
Not a clue until I started working at FHA.

1119
01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:41,880
So I'm breathing with him now and I'm breathing with him.

1120
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:45,720
So first, the first release is the nervous system.

1121
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:47,920
All that stuff is coming out.

1122
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:52,320
All the sadness of everything that he has witnessed on his tours is coming out.

1123
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:56,120
It's just a lot of crying, a lot of crying.

1124
01:17:56,120 --> 01:18:08,520
And what happened was the little girl came to him in his breath work.

1125
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:14,280
I felt that he was grounded enough that we could call this little girl in, came into

1126
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:21,680
the breath work and the little girl said to him, you know, I forgive you.

1127
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:24,680
This had nothing to do with you.

1128
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:27,920
This was all about, you know, other people's decisions.

1129
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:35,200
Anyway, he had this conversation in his breath with this 12 year old child and she hugged

1130
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:37,720
him and he's sobbing.

1131
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:41,040
He's just sobbing and sobbing and sobbing.

1132
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:45,860
When he comes out of the breath, he feels forgiven.

1133
01:18:45,860 --> 01:18:48,320
He can live with this.

1134
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:51,760
He is totally changed.

1135
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:53,440
He's totally changed.

1136
01:18:53,440 --> 01:18:56,400
Now has the memory been eliminated?

1137
01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:58,800
No, the memory is not eliminated.

1138
01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:01,000
He will always have the memory.

1139
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:10,580
But what IBT therapy does, it takes out an activation of like a 12 down to a two.

1140
01:19:10,580 --> 01:19:17,760
And anybody can live with an activation level of two or a trigger point of only two.

1141
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:20,180
You can live a happy life.

1142
01:19:20,180 --> 01:19:21,880
So that's what this does.

1143
01:19:21,880 --> 01:19:26,480
I mean, it's just amazing and it's holistic.

1144
01:19:26,480 --> 01:19:28,280
The only thing that we're doing here is breathing.

1145
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:34,040
I can't even tell you how many times I get a, you know, a patient come to me and say,

1146
01:19:34,040 --> 01:19:35,080
what did you do to me?

1147
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:38,560
I said, I didn't do anything.

1148
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:39,800
I'm the guide.

1149
01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:42,340
I'm the person that navigates.

1150
01:19:42,340 --> 01:19:48,940
But the breath and the God does all the work.

1151
01:19:48,940 --> 01:19:55,540
So that's the long and short of my first real experience of how it can help first responders

1152
01:19:55,540 --> 01:19:56,540
and veterans.

1153
01:19:56,540 --> 01:19:59,020
It's an extremely powerful story.

1154
01:19:59,020 --> 01:20:07,300
It's so sad because when you hear of war, you know, World War II and prior, usually

1155
01:20:07,300 --> 01:20:09,120
the enemy had a uniform on this.

1156
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:12,320
They were doing, you know, some kind of black ops stuff.

1157
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:16,760
And so you knew who the bad guys or girls were, you know, through your eyes.

1158
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:19,480
Obviously they were probably thinking the same thing about you.

1159
01:20:19,480 --> 01:20:25,040
But then you have Vietnam moving forward to Afghanistan, you know, and Iraq, where we're

1160
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:30,640
asking arguably almost children themselves to make these life or death decisions where

1161
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:36,520
it sounds like early on they were received as peacemakers and, you know, driving out

1162
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:38,520
the Taliban, Al Qaeda, whoever it is.

1163
01:20:38,520 --> 01:20:41,960
But as we stay longer and longer, we create more and more enemies.

1164
01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:49,960
And some of these boys and girls are brainwashed by whoever they're being raised by amongst

1165
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:54,380
the other beautiful Afghan people that are just being oppressed themselves.

1166
01:20:54,380 --> 01:21:01,260
And now you've got this horrendous environment that collateral damage is just going to happen.

1167
01:21:01,260 --> 01:21:06,400
And then you now have men and women come home carrying that shame and that guilt, you know,

1168
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:10,120
the ones that literally just reacted and did what they were trained to do.

1169
01:21:10,120 --> 01:21:13,040
But an innocent person got killed in the process.

1170
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:15,840
Yes, yes.

1171
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:23,280
And if I can be a part of that healing, it's one of the greatest honors.

1172
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:27,000
So tell me about the Shadowproof program as a whole, because there's quite a few firefighters

1173
01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:28,840
I know that have raved about it.

1174
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:30,800
Obviously, too, is one of them.

1175
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:34,520
So you know, you're doing this one element of breath work.

1176
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:38,920
Talk to me about the program and kind of paint the picture of what someone would find being

1177
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:40,880
an inpatient there.

1178
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:46,040
Well, Shadowproof is one of the most amazing programs.

1179
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:52,040
I mean, we have really unbelievable people that work there.

1180
01:21:52,040 --> 01:22:03,040
Sharif, who owns FHE Health, and a gentleman named Jeff Weinstein, they collaborated on

1181
01:22:03,040 --> 01:22:10,680
the first responder program in its infancy, and it has just grown and grown and grown.

1182
01:22:10,680 --> 01:22:14,840
And now we have all kinds of modalities.

1183
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:20,320
We have Annalee Moody, who is the EMDR specialist.

1184
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:24,600
Also another trauma modality.

1185
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:28,140
We have the bio bed with Sue Cunningham.

1186
01:22:28,140 --> 01:22:29,800
She runs, she does that.

1187
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:37,200
Just getting the patients to relax enough to even know that they even have breath to

1188
01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:39,400
start with the breath.

1189
01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:48,200
And Dr. Ananda, who is the director of the Shadowproof program, and Ray and Arthur and

1190
01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:55,160
all of these people, and Victoria, who these therapists that really know the deal.

1191
01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:59,360
I mean, Ray was a PJ for 21 years.

1192
01:22:59,360 --> 01:23:00,360
Pete was a Marine.

1193
01:23:00,360 --> 01:23:04,240
Well, once a Marine, always a Marine, he would correct me to say.

1194
01:23:04,240 --> 01:23:08,880
But there, he was in the Marines for eight years.

1195
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:14,380
I mean, these people come already with their own set of skills.

1196
01:23:14,380 --> 01:23:20,280
So when you have first responders coming in, they know the deal.

1197
01:23:20,280 --> 01:23:27,440
You know, like a Marine doesn't necessarily have to like, they know the job of the firefighter.

1198
01:23:27,440 --> 01:23:30,080
It doesn't have to be exactly the same job.

1199
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:37,680
But the mission focus is where they collab.

1200
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:44,700
You know, both like a police officer and a firefighter and a Marine, they all are mission

1201
01:23:44,700 --> 01:23:45,700
focused.

1202
01:23:45,700 --> 01:23:51,500
They all have that same job, but differently.

1203
01:23:51,500 --> 01:23:52,620
You know what I'm trying to say.

1204
01:23:52,620 --> 01:23:59,240
So the Shadowproof program helps them, one of the biggest things that I say helps them

1205
01:23:59,240 --> 01:24:07,920
is to differentiate the difference between their career trauma, their childhood trauma,

1206
01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:10,000
and their alcoholism.

1207
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:15,000
Because a lot of men come in and they're like, oh, well, the reason I drink is because I

1208
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:16,080
don't sleep.

1209
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:20,200
The reason I drink is because, you know, I was sexually harmed at eight.

1210
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:24,880
The reason I drink is because of, you know, I was at a pediatric call.

1211
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:30,840
The reason I drink, well, no, let's back up here because we have to look at your alcoholism

1212
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:33,840
at eight.

1213
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:36,620
It's completely different now.

1214
01:24:36,620 --> 01:24:41,880
Maybe in the beginning, it was the reason that you drank because of the sleeping issue.

1215
01:24:41,880 --> 01:24:46,700
But now alcoholism is a progressive illness.

1216
01:24:46,700 --> 01:24:52,240
So now we're at the point, we're drinking whether we're at work or not, whether we're

1217
01:24:52,240 --> 01:24:57,280
taking calls or not, whether we, you know, it's a progressive illness.

1218
01:24:57,280 --> 01:24:59,800
And once you were pickled, no more cucumber.

1219
01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:02,040
That's just the way it is, right?

1220
01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:10,240
So the Shadowproof program, we have this ability to say, okay, well, let's take a look at this

1221
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:11,440
first.

1222
01:25:11,440 --> 01:25:16,160
And then once we can take a look at the alcoholism, then we can take a look at the career trauma

1223
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:19,840
or the childhood trauma, whatever comes up first.

1224
01:25:19,840 --> 01:25:21,960
And we do the breath work and the EMDR.

1225
01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:28,200
So they have a sense of relief and they can sort of, it's sort of like the Shadowproof

1226
01:25:28,200 --> 01:25:29,200
program.

1227
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:36,760
If you had in the palm of your hand, sugar and salt, just looking at it, you're not going

1228
01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:39,000
to know the difference.

1229
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:46,600
But this program has the ability to sort of weed things out very carefully with a lot

1230
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:54,840
of compassion, with a lot of these great therapists and clinic, the clinical team is top notch.

1231
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:56,680
And also the outreach.

1232
01:25:56,680 --> 01:26:02,240
I mean, the, I can't say, I mean, I can't say enough about it, but the outreach program

1233
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:12,520
with Craig and Sunny and Jeff, I mean, these guys, they're on the front lines.

1234
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:22,320
They're getting the people that say, they're the first contact of Shadowproof.

1235
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:23,520
We need help.

1236
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:24,520
We need help.

1237
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:25,520
Can you help us?

1238
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:32,840
And as they come, the clinical team can get in there and do the work.

1239
01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:38,840
I can't believe I even forgot to mention Dr. Bishop, who is the neuro.

1240
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:47,720
The neuro specifically for TBI and for people that can't sleep and for anxiety and depression

1241
01:26:47,720 --> 01:26:51,840
is just unbelievable, unbelievable.

1242
01:26:51,840 --> 01:27:02,560
And Dr. Dogris has done work with Dr. Joe Dispenza in California.

1243
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:15,120
And Dr. Joe and Dr. Dogris, I believe, were able to collaborate and make this machine,

1244
01:27:15,120 --> 01:27:25,000
I'm not really versed on neuro, but to make a specific machine for the neuro in FHE to

1245
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:32,080
help the first responders to show them, you know, a brain mapping.

1246
01:27:32,080 --> 01:27:34,280
Okay, this is what we got here.

1247
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:36,560
You know, this is where your hypervigilance is.

1248
01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:38,080
This is where your depression lies.

1249
01:27:38,080 --> 01:27:39,640
This is what we're going to work on.

1250
01:27:39,640 --> 01:27:41,640
This is the protocol that we're going to give you.

1251
01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:45,920
And Dr. Bishop is the one who does all and works with them.

1252
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:48,400
So I mean, think about that combination.

1253
01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:50,120
You have the neuro.

1254
01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:52,520
You have the clinical team.

1255
01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:54,680
You have the EMDR.

1256
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:56,380
You have breath work.

1257
01:27:56,380 --> 01:27:58,880
You have all of these modalities.

1258
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:05,960
And then we have, you know, the facilitators like Pete, he'll get them all together and

1259
01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:09,200
do volleyball and do boot camp there now.

1260
01:28:09,200 --> 01:28:13,560
I mean, it's just an amazing, amazing, I can't say enough about it.

1261
01:28:13,560 --> 01:28:16,960
I love where I work and what I do there.

1262
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:17,960
I really do.

1263
01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:19,720
It's an honor to work there.

1264
01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:22,800
What about when people leave the facility?

1265
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:29,320
Because what I found in some of these, you know, like we have the union has a mental

1266
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:30,960
health center in the Northeast.

1267
01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:34,280
And I know that, you know, I've had quite a few people tell me, yeah, it was good while

1268
01:28:34,280 --> 01:28:35,280
we were there.

1269
01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:38,280
But then we went home to the same problems that we left before.

1270
01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:40,760
No one had really prepped our family.

1271
01:28:40,760 --> 01:28:44,540
And so a lot of them kind of fell back into previous behaviors.

1272
01:28:44,540 --> 01:28:49,600
But then you look at AA and obviously the meetings are the reason that you keep that

1273
01:28:49,600 --> 01:28:50,600
community.

1274
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:57,160
So what is that element after these people kind of transition out of the facility?

1275
01:28:57,160 --> 01:29:01,240
Well what's interesting is that you, it's funny that you just meant the family because

1276
01:29:01,240 --> 01:29:06,760
the family is really important.

1277
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:18,960
Just recently, a month ago, the clinical team hired a woman named Ivana who is now doing

1278
01:29:18,960 --> 01:29:25,920
family therapy with the first responders loved ones while they're there.

1279
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:27,400
Is that amazing?

1280
01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:33,520
She is now like on a Zoom call with these husbands and wives, mothers, brothers, you

1281
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:37,520
know, people that are part of the family and she's giving them an education.

1282
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:41,000
Okay, this is what is happening to your loved one.

1283
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:43,800
This is what to expect when they come home.

1284
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:48,840
Let's talk about even their issues, like what, you know, everything that you've been through

1285
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:54,720
living with this person that has an alcohol problem or PTSD.

1286
01:29:54,720 --> 01:29:56,520
It may not even be alcohol.

1287
01:29:56,520 --> 01:30:00,880
It may just be strictly PTSD or anxiety disorders.

1288
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:06,800
Like let's talk about what we need to do for you so when your loved one comes home, there's

1289
01:30:06,800 --> 01:30:12,040
more cohesiveness in the family so they have a better idea.

1290
01:30:12,040 --> 01:30:19,640
But also too, I'm really glad that you brought that up because our caseworkers work really,

1291
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:21,920
really hard like Jen and Michael.

1292
01:30:21,920 --> 01:30:24,000
They lay out this protocol.

1293
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:27,640
All right, this is what you're going to do when you go home.

1294
01:30:27,640 --> 01:30:28,880
Okay.

1295
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:30,720
We got this set up for you.

1296
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:35,880
We have this appointment, you know, your therapist or your IOP.

1297
01:30:35,880 --> 01:30:38,240
We want you to go.

1298
01:30:38,240 --> 01:30:42,800
You can go to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings or if you don't feel comfortable going there,

1299
01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:46,480
there's another meeting called Badges and Bottles.

1300
01:30:46,480 --> 01:30:52,240
There's strictly for first responders and it's run the AA way.

1301
01:30:52,240 --> 01:30:53,240
Okay.

1302
01:30:53,240 --> 01:30:58,360
Because a lot of these guys, they say things like, Lisa, I don't want to be in Alcoholics

1303
01:30:58,360 --> 01:31:02,440
Anonymous and be sitting next to a guy I just locked up a year ago.

1304
01:31:02,440 --> 01:31:04,080
That doesn't feel good to me.

1305
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:05,080
Okay.

1306
01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:14,040
So they made a specific protocol for people that have to be in Alcoholics Anonymous that

1307
01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:16,760
need AA but are first responders.

1308
01:31:16,760 --> 01:31:20,080
So it's called Badges and Bottles.

1309
01:31:20,080 --> 01:31:23,600
So they have a couple of them in New Jersey.

1310
01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:32,120
It's pretty big in New Jersey but it's starting to feather out in the East side.

1311
01:31:32,120 --> 01:31:35,800
Now here's the thing.

1312
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:40,800
When you have a broken arm, okay, and you go into any kind of hospital and you say,

1313
01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:44,760
listen, you know, I got my arm broken here and they wrap it in a cast and they say, all

1314
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:45,880
right, listen, come back.

1315
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:48,440
You're going to have to do physical therapy.

1316
01:31:48,440 --> 01:31:52,240
You know, you're going to have to do all this and then in six weeks we take it off and you're

1317
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:53,240
good.

1318
01:31:53,240 --> 01:31:54,240
Okay.

1319
01:31:54,240 --> 01:32:03,880
When you come down to FHE, every single clinical member is saying to them, this is not a hospital

1320
01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:06,320
where you broke your arm.

1321
01:32:06,320 --> 01:32:10,680
This is a place where we are just the mirror.

1322
01:32:10,680 --> 01:32:17,440
We hold the mirror up to you and we say, you look inside of the mirror and you see what's

1323
01:32:17,440 --> 01:32:18,880
going on with you.

1324
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:23,060
Now, now that you know that you have these issues, what are you going to do about them?

1325
01:32:23,060 --> 01:32:25,400
Because this is a lifelong process.

1326
01:32:25,400 --> 01:32:29,680
This isn't going to get my arm fixed and I'm all good now.

1327
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:37,620
So when you leave, if you do not do the protocol or you do not do what's necessary, it's only

1328
01:32:37,620 --> 01:32:38,620
a matter of time.

1329
01:32:38,620 --> 01:32:40,960
I mean, we're dealing with alcoholism here.

1330
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:48,560
This is one of the strongest, most, it's an illness that tells you you don't have an illness,

1331
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:49,560
that you're good now.

1332
01:32:49,560 --> 01:32:50,560
I'm good.

1333
01:32:50,560 --> 01:32:51,560
I went to Shatterproof.

1334
01:32:51,560 --> 01:32:52,560
I stopped drinking.

1335
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:55,360
I dealt with my trauma.

1336
01:32:55,360 --> 01:32:58,120
I had a little of this and a little of that and I'm good now.

1337
01:32:58,120 --> 01:33:01,160
And they go back into the same environment.

1338
01:33:01,160 --> 01:33:09,600
You have to have some kind of safety net when you get out, whether that's badges and badges

1339
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:17,160
or excuse me, badges and bottles or alcoholics synonymous or celebrate recovery or smart

1340
01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:19,640
recovery or the Buddhist recovery.

1341
01:33:19,640 --> 01:33:23,600
I mean, there's a plethora of things that they can go to.

1342
01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:32,000
If they don't go to them, it's just a matter of time, in my opinion.

1343
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:37,700
And for the gentlemen and the ladies that just come in for PTSD, that they don't have

1344
01:33:37,700 --> 01:33:41,900
the addiction issues, they need therapy.

1345
01:33:41,900 --> 01:33:43,800
Therapy isn't a one and done.

1346
01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:48,160
You don't go a couple of times and you're like, oh, I got it all figured out.

1347
01:33:48,160 --> 01:33:51,800
As you know, therapy takes time and patience and compassion.

1348
01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:57,840
So when they leave, they need to continue with their therapy or whatever they need to

1349
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:04,020
do in order to get better, stay better and become the person that they want to be.

1350
01:34:04,020 --> 01:34:07,120
So aftercare is hugely important.

1351
01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:08,560
Absolutely.

1352
01:34:08,560 --> 01:34:11,960
I want to put one thing to you and then we'll go to some closing questions.

1353
01:34:11,960 --> 01:34:17,640
But you mentioned about the people that work there now that are PJs and Marines.

1354
01:34:17,640 --> 01:34:21,760
And this is a big thing in our profession collectively, it's just buy-in.

1355
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:26,760
And I've sat there while people from a fitness background have come in and they're like,

1356
01:34:26,760 --> 01:34:29,760
oh, you're going to do is sit on the Swiss ball and stretch these bands.

1357
01:34:29,760 --> 01:34:33,200
And you're just watching going, you have no idea what we even do for a living, do you?

1358
01:34:33,200 --> 01:34:35,840
And the same with nutrition and even mental health.

1359
01:34:35,840 --> 01:34:41,320
And a lot of horror stories, so many horror stories of when someone in crisis has finally

1360
01:34:41,320 --> 01:34:45,680
worked up the courage and they sit in front of the wrong counselor.

1361
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:48,240
And what scares me is those are the stories I've heard.

1362
01:34:48,240 --> 01:34:51,960
How many do we not get to hear because that was the last straw for that person.

1363
01:34:51,960 --> 01:34:56,160
And they walked out realizing, thinking that they were completely broken, no one could

1364
01:34:56,160 --> 01:34:59,680
help them because that counselor just burst into tears or told me to get out.

1365
01:34:59,680 --> 01:35:02,600
And then they ended up complete in suicide.

1366
01:35:02,600 --> 01:35:08,800
So how do you yourself not being in uniform prior get buy-in from these men and women

1367
01:35:08,800 --> 01:35:14,640
that come into your doors?

1368
01:35:14,640 --> 01:35:25,440
I just have this ability to meet them where they're at and love them without any judgment.

1369
01:35:25,440 --> 01:35:33,040
I know this is going to sound as corny as it gets, but James, love is the answer.

1370
01:35:33,040 --> 01:35:40,880
And if you have somebody who's really listening, really listening, there's no greater gift.

1371
01:35:40,880 --> 01:35:50,160
And that's my gift, that I have the ability to do that.

1372
01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:52,240
And I never get tired of it.

1373
01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:53,240
I never get tired of it.

1374
01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:54,240
I don't know what it is.

1375
01:35:54,240 --> 01:36:01,920
I never get tired of just loving these men and women up.

1376
01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:06,360
I almost feel like it's an honor to be with them.

1377
01:36:06,360 --> 01:36:14,120
I mean, we're talking about firemen and police officers and veterans that give their life

1378
01:36:14,120 --> 01:36:15,160
for our community.

1379
01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:21,080
I had no idea how much they gave until I started working in the Shatterproof program.

1380
01:36:21,080 --> 01:36:28,080
So for me to sit and listen and be able to breathe and show compassion and love to these

1381
01:36:28,080 --> 01:36:32,520
folks, it's more of an honor than it is anything else.

1382
01:36:32,520 --> 01:36:35,840
When you go to work and you don't feel like it's a job, you know you're in the right

1383
01:36:35,840 --> 01:36:36,840
business.

1384
01:36:36,840 --> 01:36:38,560
I couldn't agree more.

1385
01:36:38,560 --> 01:36:39,560
Yeah.

1386
01:36:39,560 --> 01:36:40,560
Beautiful.

1387
01:36:40,560 --> 01:36:41,560
All right.

1388
01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:43,800
Well, I want to throw some quick closing questions at you before I let you go.

1389
01:36:43,800 --> 01:36:49,440
The first one I love to ask, and you've already mentioned obviously the big book and then

1390
01:36:49,440 --> 01:36:51,160
Surrender Experiment as well.

1391
01:36:51,160 --> 01:36:55,480
Are there any other books that you love to recommend?

1392
01:36:55,480 --> 01:36:56,480
Okay.

1393
01:36:56,480 --> 01:36:57,480
Yes.

1394
01:36:57,480 --> 01:36:59,360
All right.

1395
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:06,480
The Four Agreements by Don Miguel Ruiz.

1396
01:37:06,480 --> 01:37:12,240
The Road Less Traveled by Scott Peck.

1397
01:37:12,240 --> 01:37:16,680
The Surrender Experiment by Michael Sanger.

1398
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:17,680
Let's see.

1399
01:37:17,680 --> 01:37:18,680
What else?

1400
01:37:18,680 --> 01:37:23,200
The Power of Now by- Eckhart Tolle.

1401
01:37:23,200 --> 01:37:26,060
Eckhart Tolle, yes.

1402
01:37:26,060 --> 01:37:31,040
The Good Earth by Eckhart Tolle as well.

1403
01:37:31,040 --> 01:37:36,320
The Five Love Languages by Hendrix Harvell.

1404
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:42,360
Harvell, I believe it is.

1405
01:37:42,360 --> 01:37:48,680
A Return to Love by Marianne Williamson.

1406
01:37:48,680 --> 01:37:51,000
Anything by Dr. Wayne Dyer.

1407
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:52,000
Anything.

1408
01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:53,000
Absolutely.

1409
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:57,560
Yes, it was just absolutely amazing.

1410
01:37:57,560 --> 01:38:02,400
Those are just the ones that are off the top of my head, but I think that's enough.

1411
01:38:02,400 --> 01:38:03,400
That's a lot.

1412
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:04,400
Yeah, that's plenty of reading for people.

1413
01:38:04,400 --> 01:38:05,400
Yeah.

1414
01:38:05,400 --> 01:38:07,440
I don't think Wayne Dyer wrote a bad book.

1415
01:38:07,440 --> 01:38:08,440
I really don't.

1416
01:38:08,440 --> 01:38:10,760
So what about films and documentaries?

1417
01:38:10,760 --> 01:38:12,040
Any of those that you love?

1418
01:38:12,040 --> 01:38:14,080
Oh, God, there's so many.

1419
01:38:14,080 --> 01:38:21,120
But I would say, I mean, I like anything to do with recovery.

1420
01:38:21,120 --> 01:38:25,040
I remember the Sandra Bullock movie.

1421
01:38:25,040 --> 01:38:28,520
I think it was called Thirteen Days.

1422
01:38:28,520 --> 01:38:30,520
My Name is Bill Wilson.

1423
01:38:30,520 --> 01:38:33,920
That's another one that was really good.

1424
01:38:33,920 --> 01:38:37,560
There's a couple recovery films.

1425
01:38:37,560 --> 01:38:42,320
I can't remember the names of them, but I remember watching them.

1426
01:38:42,320 --> 01:38:50,680
And really, they do a really good job of understanding the alcoholic because it's very puzzling.

1427
01:38:50,680 --> 01:38:57,520
Like you're a family member and you think to yourself, if you know this is bad for you,

1428
01:38:57,520 --> 01:39:01,320
why the hell are you doing it?

1429
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:04,320
And Al-Anon family groups, huge.

1430
01:39:04,320 --> 01:39:10,260
ACOA, which is the Adult Children of Alcoholics, huge program.

1431
01:39:10,260 --> 01:39:14,960
It's imperative for the families to understand what they're dealing with.

1432
01:39:14,960 --> 01:39:16,880
I mean, I always use this analogy.

1433
01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:23,160
I say, listen, if your loved one, let's just say, God forbid they had, I don't know, neuroblastoma,

1434
01:39:23,160 --> 01:39:24,400
rare cancer.

1435
01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:29,840
You would be on the internet like a crazy person trying to find out what to do.

1436
01:39:29,840 --> 01:39:32,080
Best doctor, blah, blah, blah.

1437
01:39:32,080 --> 01:39:35,920
You wouldn't just wonder and say, like, why are you doing that?

1438
01:39:35,920 --> 01:39:38,000
No, you would get involved.

1439
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:40,680
So that's what Al-Anon family groups is about.

1440
01:39:40,680 --> 01:39:46,560
If your loved one has a problem with addiction, you find out, find out what they have.

1441
01:39:46,560 --> 01:39:49,160
Al-Anon can help you.

1442
01:39:49,160 --> 01:39:53,280
You just made me think of another analogy because I mean, I've talked a lot about the

1443
01:39:53,280 --> 01:39:55,680
broken brain, especially when it comes to suicide.

1444
01:39:55,680 --> 01:39:58,160
You know, like how could they be so selfish?

1445
01:39:58,160 --> 01:39:59,560
How could they be so cowardly?

1446
01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:04,560
And you listen to people that have been there over and over and over again and you hear

1447
01:40:04,560 --> 01:40:05,560
basically two things.

1448
01:40:05,560 --> 01:40:08,900
Of course, the want for suffering to end.

1449
01:40:08,900 --> 01:40:14,000
But the other thing that seems to be far less discussed is that feeling of burdensome, that

1450
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:15,040
guilt and shame.

1451
01:40:15,040 --> 01:40:18,840
Like if I wasn't here anymore, my family would be better off.

1452
01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:23,240
And that, of course, to a healthy brain makes no sense whatsoever.

1453
01:40:23,240 --> 01:40:25,560
But at that moment, that person believes.

1454
01:40:25,560 --> 01:40:33,240
And so that really reframes suicide to selfless and courageous at that moment, at that time.

1455
01:40:33,240 --> 01:40:36,760
But it's funny because just when you're talking about the broken arm, another analogy, when

1456
01:40:36,760 --> 01:40:42,080
we run on patients with very low blood sugar, they're acting completely inappropriately.

1457
01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:45,360
You know, they're belligerent, they're violent, they're whatever.

1458
01:40:45,360 --> 01:40:49,760
And it's like shouting at the hypoglycemic going, what's wrong with you?

1459
01:40:49,760 --> 01:40:53,280
Stop behaving that way when what they need is sugar.

1460
01:40:53,280 --> 01:40:55,240
And it's the same kind of thing.

1461
01:40:55,240 --> 01:40:56,440
Yes.

1462
01:40:56,440 --> 01:40:57,880
Get them some orange juice.

1463
01:40:57,880 --> 01:40:58,880
Exactly.

1464
01:40:58,880 --> 01:41:00,880
Orange juice is the answer, along with love.

1465
01:41:00,880 --> 01:41:01,880
Yes.

1466
01:41:01,880 --> 01:41:05,560
Love and compassion is the answer.

1467
01:41:05,560 --> 01:41:06,560
Is the answer.

1468
01:41:06,560 --> 01:41:07,560
100%.

1469
01:41:07,560 --> 01:41:08,560
All right.

1470
01:41:08,560 --> 01:41:11,640
Well, we've mentioned a lot of great people.

1471
01:41:11,640 --> 01:41:16,000
Is there a person that you recommend to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the

1472
01:41:16,000 --> 01:41:20,000
first responders, military and associated professions of the world?

1473
01:41:20,000 --> 01:41:21,200
Okay.

1474
01:41:21,200 --> 01:41:24,680
Ray McDaniel is my colleague at FHA.

1475
01:41:24,680 --> 01:41:28,520
He is 21 years a PJ.

1476
01:41:28,520 --> 01:41:38,240
And he, Ray, has this uncanny ability to hard nose and hug them all at the same time.

1477
01:41:38,240 --> 01:41:44,520
So he gives it to him straight and he loves them as he's given.

1478
01:41:44,520 --> 01:41:48,680
He's just, he really knows what he's doing.

1479
01:41:48,680 --> 01:41:56,360
And a lot of people in the first and in the Shatterproof program really love and admire

1480
01:41:56,360 --> 01:42:05,500
him because he's got a way of really connecting with the clients.

1481
01:42:05,500 --> 01:42:06,500
Really connecting with the clients.

1482
01:42:06,500 --> 01:42:08,000
And he knows what he's talking about.

1483
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:09,000
He's been there.

1484
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:10,000
He's been there.

1485
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:11,000
Yeah, that would be amazing.

1486
01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:16,280
And it's funny that the PJs, I've had a few of them on the show.

1487
01:42:16,280 --> 01:42:20,400
If there was a branch of the military or a specialty within the military that really

1488
01:42:20,400 --> 01:42:24,760
mirrors the firefighter paramedic closest, it's the PJ.

1489
01:42:24,760 --> 01:42:25,760
They do the ropes.

1490
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:28,440
They wait for a call and then have to react.

1491
01:42:28,440 --> 01:42:30,400
Obviously, they're doing the advanced medicine.

1492
01:42:30,400 --> 01:42:31,400
So it's all the things.

1493
01:42:31,400 --> 01:42:33,880
It's a military version of what we do here.

1494
01:42:33,880 --> 01:42:38,640
So there's a lot of cross-pollination and then you add in obviously now what he's doing

1495
01:42:38,640 --> 01:42:39,640
at Shatterproof.

1496
01:42:39,640 --> 01:42:41,340
I think that'd be an incredible conversation.

1497
01:42:41,340 --> 01:42:43,920
So if you're able to help, let's make that happen.

1498
01:42:43,920 --> 01:42:44,920
Absolutely.

1499
01:42:44,920 --> 01:42:46,320
I'll make sure it happens.

1500
01:42:46,320 --> 01:42:47,940
I'll tell him.

1501
01:42:47,940 --> 01:42:48,940
Thank you.

1502
01:42:48,940 --> 01:42:49,940
All right.

1503
01:42:49,940 --> 01:42:53,080
Well, then the very last question, which is interesting for you, before we go to where

1504
01:42:53,080 --> 01:42:57,600
people can find all the different places, what do you do to decompress?

1505
01:42:57,600 --> 01:43:00,200
I'm assuming breath work is part of it.

1506
01:43:00,200 --> 01:43:01,200
Yes.

1507
01:43:01,200 --> 01:43:11,960
I breathe a lot and I go to Alcoholics Anonymous and that is my spiritual work.

1508
01:43:11,960 --> 01:43:13,920
I do breath work for myself as well.

1509
01:43:13,920 --> 01:43:17,920
I have a friend, her name is, I did say Dr. Coleman.

1510
01:43:17,920 --> 01:43:18,920
We exchange.

1511
01:43:18,920 --> 01:43:21,240
You know how massage therapists do that?

1512
01:43:21,240 --> 01:43:23,200
They exchange massages.

1513
01:43:23,200 --> 01:43:26,000
Well, Susie and I, we exchange breath.

1514
01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:30,240
So she'll breathe with me because it's really, it's much better to do it with the facilitator

1515
01:43:30,240 --> 01:43:34,880
that's sitting by you that can guide you and ask the questions that you need to be asked

1516
01:43:34,880 --> 01:43:36,280
when you're breathing.

1517
01:43:36,280 --> 01:43:42,840
And then when, you know, I'll do a session with her, she'll do a session with me and

1518
01:43:42,840 --> 01:43:43,840
we do that.

1519
01:43:43,840 --> 01:43:48,960
And I go to AA and I have my family and friends too.

1520
01:43:48,960 --> 01:43:51,360
So I have a wonderful life.

1521
01:43:51,360 --> 01:43:52,360
I'm really blessed.

1522
01:43:52,360 --> 01:43:53,360
I'm very blessed.

1523
01:43:53,360 --> 01:43:54,360
Fantastic.

1524
01:43:54,360 --> 01:43:55,360
All right.

1525
01:43:55,360 --> 01:44:00,280
So then where can people find FHE and the Shatterproof program and then where else can

1526
01:44:00,280 --> 01:44:02,320
they find you and your work?

1527
01:44:02,320 --> 01:44:03,320
Okay.

1528
01:44:03,320 --> 01:44:08,920
So FHE has a website, FHE health.

1529
01:44:08,920 --> 01:44:15,160
You can just Google that in a minute and it'll pop up and there's an admissions, a whole

1530
01:44:15,160 --> 01:44:17,880
department in admissions.

1531
01:44:17,880 --> 01:44:21,000
So they can just call if they need the help.

1532
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:33,720
And my particular website is called Breathing Out Trauma with 1T, breathingout, O-U-T-T-R-A-U-M-A.com.

1533
01:44:33,720 --> 01:44:39,120
So if somebody just is not, it doesn't have an addiction problem or doesn't suffer from

1534
01:44:39,120 --> 01:44:45,320
PTSD and you're just a regular old person that needs a break, breath work is great.

1535
01:44:45,320 --> 01:44:47,680
Breath work is great for humanity.

1536
01:44:47,680 --> 01:44:52,560
I mean, I don't know how else to say it, but if they want a session, they can go there

1537
01:44:52,560 --> 01:44:54,680
as well.

1538
01:44:54,680 --> 01:44:55,680
I think that's it.

1539
01:44:55,680 --> 01:44:56,680
Was that your questions?

1540
01:44:56,680 --> 01:44:57,680
Yep.

1541
01:44:57,680 --> 01:44:58,680
That was it.

1542
01:44:58,680 --> 01:45:00,120
Well, I want to thank you so much.

1543
01:45:00,120 --> 01:45:06,720
Again, thank you to Sue for connecting us, but not only just walking us through the kind

1544
01:45:06,720 --> 01:45:10,680
of breath work side and the therapy side, but even walking us through your own personal

1545
01:45:10,680 --> 01:45:11,680
journey.

1546
01:45:11,680 --> 01:45:18,280
As, oh my God, what's her name, Brene Brown talks about a lot, I think vulnerability truly

1547
01:45:18,280 --> 01:45:20,160
is the courage that we need.

1548
01:45:20,160 --> 01:45:25,520
And especially, I would argue more so even with our men or our women in male dominated

1549
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:31,120
professions like the uniformed services, we need to have that vulnerability put front

1550
01:45:31,120 --> 01:45:32,120
and center again.

1551
01:45:32,120 --> 01:45:38,680
And when someone is brave enough to storytell on their own challenges and their own struggles,

1552
01:45:38,680 --> 01:45:41,760
I think it really creates that buy-in that we were talking about earlier.

1553
01:45:41,760 --> 01:45:46,680
So I want to thank you so, so much for that and for coming on the Behind the Shield podcast

1554
01:45:46,680 --> 01:45:47,680
today.

1555
01:45:47,680 --> 01:45:49,640
Oh, James, thank you so much.

1556
01:45:49,640 --> 01:45:51,880
This was such a pleasure and I feel so honored.

1557
01:45:51,880 --> 01:45:52,880
Thank you.

1558
01:45:52,880 --> 01:45:53,880
Thank you.

1559
01:45:53,880 --> 01:46:08,880
Thank you.