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I'm extremely excited to announce a brand new sponsor for the Behind the Shield podcast

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that is Transcend.

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Now for many of you listening, you are probably working the same brutal shifts that I did

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for 14 years.

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Suffering from sleep deprivation, body composition challenges, mental health challenges, libido,

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hair loss, etc.

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Now when it comes to the world of hormone replacement and peptide therapy, what I have

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seen is a shift from doctors telling us that we were within normal limits, which was definitely

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incorrect all the way to the other way now where men's clinics are popping up left, right

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and center.

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So I myself wanted to find a reputable company that would do an analysis of my physiology

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and then offer supplementations without ramming, for example, hormone replacement therapy down

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my throat.

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Now I came across Transcend because they have an altruistic arm and they were a big reason

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why the 7X project I was a part of was able to proceed because of their generous donations.

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They also have the Transcend foundations where they are actually putting military and first

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responders through some of their therapies at no cost to the individual.

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So my own personal journey so far filled in the online form, went to Quest, got blood

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drawn and a few days later I'm talking to one of their wellness professionals as they

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guide me through my results and the supplementation that they suggest.

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In my case specifically, because I transitioned out the fire service five years ago and been

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very diligent with my health, my testosterone was actually in a good place.

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So I went down the peptide route and some other supplements to try and maximize my physiology

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knowing full well the damage that 14 years of shift work has done.

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Now I also want to underline because I think this is very important that each of the therapies

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they offer, they will talk about the pros and cons.

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So for example, a lot of first responders in shift work, our testosterone will be low,

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but sometimes nutrition, exercise and sleep can offset that on its own.

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So this company is not going to try and push you down a path, especially if it's one that

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you can't come back from.

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So whether it's libido, brain fog, inflammation, gut health, performance, sleep, this is definitely

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one of the most powerful tools in the toolbox.

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So to learn more, go to transcendcompany.com or listen to episode 808 of the Behind the

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Shield podcast with founder Ernie Colling.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

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the show collegiate athlete Pasco County firefighter and union board member Dixon Phillips.

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Now I'm extremely excited to bring Dixon's story onto the show as it is just another

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layer to reinforce the importance of changing the firefighter work week.

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As many of you know, I've been pushing for the 24 72 to become an industry standard for

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about seven years now.

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If you missed episode 854, that was with Boynton Beach chief Hugh Bruder and they implemented

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that new schedule about a year and a half ago.

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So you got to hear how they made it happen, the financial savings that they've experienced.

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Now Dixon's story is the other end of the spectrum, which is phenomenal because they

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will be going to that same shift schedule in 2026.

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So you will hear how they strengthen relationships between operations, administration and their

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employer.

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And ultimately, again, it was the savings, the money that they were bleeding through

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overtime and all the other expenses that they realized they could front load and also invest

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in the health of their people.

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So we discuss a host of topics from his own journey into collegiate football, his transition

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into the fire service, the loss of a friend through work related cancer, the mental health

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struggles, how they were able to present the 24 72 as a better option, how that in turn

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improved recruitment, their progressive decon programs and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredibly important conversation, as I say every week, please

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just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show,

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leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of almost 900 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

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I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you, Dixon Phillips.

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Enjoy.

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Well, Dixon, I want to start by saying firstly, thank you to our mutual friend Pablo for the

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time.

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Thank you for connecting us Pablo Jenner.

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And secondly, I want to welcome you on to the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Thank you for having me, James.

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Really excited.

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I'm really happy that Pablo connected us.

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I think it's gonna be great.

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Well there's obviously a very powerful reason that he did and we'll get into that in a little

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while.

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But I would love to start the very beginning of your journey.

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I mean, you've got some interesting chapters prior to the fire service.

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So let's start at the very beginning.

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Tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what

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your parents did, how many siblings.

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So, I was born in upstate New York, a small town called Schenectady, moved down to Tampa,

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Florida when I was two, three years old.

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So I was raised down here in Tampa.

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My mom's been in education my whole life.

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She was a teacher and now she works for Head Start program.

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My dad actually was a, he's been a salesman his whole life.

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So he does remodels down in South Florida.

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My stepfather is also, he's a part of the Lakeland Housing Authority and runs a program

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called Youth Build.

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So kind of teaching troubled youths or those that were unable to, didn't have the ability

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to go to college.

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They kind of teach them trades and put them in the workforce.

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Yeah, I went to high school at Hillsborough High School, which is local in Tampa, Florida.

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Played sports my whole life.

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I actually ended up hurting myself my senior year in high school.

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I was looking to go play football in college and had an injury, kind of made things a little

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difficult during recruiting.

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So I went to a small school in Illinois for a semester.

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My mom ended up getting sick around that time.

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So thought it would be best to move back home, be close to her.

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Moved home and honestly started working.

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I thought that was going to be kind of where my school journey ended and I was going to

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figure out what I was going to do after that.

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I was very fortunate that one of my high school coaches kind of reached out to me and asked

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if I still wanted to play football going forward.

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I had an opportunity at that time to walk on at Florida State University.

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So I did that.

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I was there for two years and then ended up having some issues academically and kind of

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was forced to come home.

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And it was at that time where I had no idea what I was going to do.

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It was definitely one of the darkest moments of my life.

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Telling my mom who's been in education my whole life that, yeah, I've got out of school

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is kind of a hard conversation to have.

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But I was very fortunate that my mentor at that time, his name is Lydell Ross and he

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was a football player at Ohio State University.

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He was a running back.

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I knew him through the gym and he's a Tampa firefighter.

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So I reached out to him.

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He was actually the first phone call I made when I found out that I was going to be dismissed

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from school.

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And, you know, he kind of took me on his wing and just said, look, you need to go to fire

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school.

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The fire service is made for people like us.

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And that was what I did.

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Came home, figured out what I needed to do, went to EMT school, fire school, and was very

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fortunate to get hired pretty quickly after graduation with Pasco County Fire Rescue.

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That was in September of 2015.

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You know, that's that's where my journey in the fire service began.

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You know, Pasco, when I got hired, was a very small department.

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It was looked at as the training grounds for all the surrounding agencies.

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You know, we're paid the lowest work the most hours as anybody surrounding us.

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I loved where I was at.

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I loved the people in our department.

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And that was a part of the reason why I stayed.

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You know, we really have like a family atmosphere.

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But in 2018, I thought it would be best for me and my family to make that transition to

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one of the higher paid departments, you know, with more time off, just better benefits overall.

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I ended up getting hired with the city of Tampa in October of 2018.

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I was there for a very short period of time, only for six months.

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And I realized very quickly that what I had at Pasco County, I did not have in the city

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of Tampa.

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And for me, that family atmosphere, you know, the environment that I worked in was a lot

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more important than those benefits that I may have had when I was with the city.

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So I came back to Pasco.

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Actually, my first shift back was April 1st of 2019.

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And from that moment, kind of just decided, you know what?

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I'm going to look to help change some things.

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So in 2019, I was elected on our executive board of our union.

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And I've held that position as a station representative ever since.

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And you know, I think we've made a lot of changes.

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We're leaps and bounds from even 2019, let alone 2015 when I got hired.

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Beautiful.

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Well, I want to go all the way back to early life and then we'll obviously come and we'll

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unpack all the things when it comes to the fire service.

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You talked about the Head Start program first.

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So educate me on what that is.

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So my mom, the Head Start program is a program for, you know, children going through school.

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It's kind of like a preschool type program where parents don't have the ability to pay

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for child care.

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So they qualify for this program.

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And you know, it's basically like a preschool daycare for underprivileged families.

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So what is what are some of the things that you hear your mom consistently talking about?

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I'm all for the proactive solutions of some of the issues that we face.

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And the perfect example is that looking down your nose at whatever group of people and

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saying, you know, for example, let's just choose obesity.

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Oh, all they have to do is wake up and, you know, eat salad and go for a run.

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And it's that easy.

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Well, if that child is all they've ever known is fast food and snacks and, you know, inactivity,

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where are you expecting this information to come from?

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So when there are proactive solutions, when we're removing barriers to entry, like the

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Head Start program, I'm always intrigued.

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I think it deserves more airtime.

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So what are some of the challenges or things that you heard her discuss with that, you

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know, four decade experience that she has?

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Well, the biggest thing that she's always said to me is don't come in with a problem.

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You come in with a solution.

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You know, that's that's one thing that I feel like we struggle a lot in the fire service.

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But, you know, obviously, when we look at.

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You know, you're talking about, you know, breaking barriers, don't looking down, don't

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look down on somebody based on, you know, their appearance or whatever, because you

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don't know their upbringing.

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So how do we get that?

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Like your example, obese person, how do we get them to become healthy?

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You know, kind of identifying what is their motivation?

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You know, everyone obviously needs like specific training, teaching to get them to where they

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want to be, where we want to see them.

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But yeah, I mean, the biggest thing is with her, like I said, is finding solutions for

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problems, not just coming with a problem.

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What are some of the barriers that she's seeing, though?

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I mean, obviously, someone had the foresight to create the Head Start program and address

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this issue.

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But for a lot of people listening, you know, hopefully they're they're stable families

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and they have the means to get their kids into this school or this daycare or whatever

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it ends up being.

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What are some of the challenges these families are facing that the Head Start program is

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helping with?

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Well, I mean, obviously financial, right?

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I mean, I don't have children, but I know people that do that when you when you're working

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a full time job that you're not able to stay home with your with your kids.

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You're not able to afford any daycare or, you know, get into private schools or maybe

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it's a transportation issue.

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But you know, this program is just allowed.

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It kind of takes that relief off those parents where they don't have to worry about their

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children when they're at work and they know that they're focusing on early education,

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right?

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They're reading, they're getting hands on learning, which is extremely important, you

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know, at a young age to make sure that they develop appropriately.

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And yeah, that's really from talking to her.

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It seems like that's that's what it's about.

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It's kind of taking that relief off that family.

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Just know that your child is going to be taken care of.

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You know, you don't have to worry about any financial costs to go along with it.

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So, yeah, I mean, a perfect example, we had the storm blow through.

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What was it yesterday?

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Through here, yeah, and they closed the schools in Marion County.

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Now I am, you know, doing this for a living now.

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So my son is 16.

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So when they close it, all right, no big deal.

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You know, he can literally make his own food.

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And, you know, even if he was younger, I would be here.

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But that would impact a family that was, you know, maybe a single parent working one or

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two jobs.

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And now all of a sudden, my kids aren't in school anymore.

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So these are things that a lot of us don't think about.

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But you know, some people really struggle with.

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Right.

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So what about you say the Youth Build program?

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Yes.

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So my stepdad, he's the director for the Youth Build program over in the Lakeland Housing

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Authority.

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So, so talk to me about that.

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Because again, you know, we kind of get ferried into the academic route.

233
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Oh, if you want to be successful, you go to high school, you go to college, et cetera,

234
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:53,840
et cetera.

235
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,160
But you and I are the product of trade schools.

236
00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,440
And I would argue one of the best professions on the planet.

237
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:04,880
So talk to me about the mentorship element and the proactive mentoring of our young men

238
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,880
and women and enabling them to find the construction industry.

239
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,680
Yeah, I mean, I think it's important, right?

240
00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,640
I mean, you see it all the time.

241
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,720
People talk about how, you know, interest in the trade industries is down, you know,

242
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,300
the lowest it's ever been.

243
00:15:18,300 --> 00:15:24,720
So being able to take, you know, men and women that might not have been successful in the

244
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:30,200
academic world, but finding, you know, their niche, you know, taking them in this, it's

245
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:38,400
a free program, you know, in finding what trade works for them and making sure that,

246
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,920
you know, when they graduate this program, they also help with job placement and then

247
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:48,720
they're going to have, you know, hopefully a long career and be financially stable.

248
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:55,520
You know, it's one of my best friends was a high school dropout GED and, you know, he

249
00:15:55,520 --> 00:16:02,240
struggled for some years, but he went up through landscaping, ended up getting his general

250
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,120
contractor's license as well.

251
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:09,400
And now he has a thriving business, you know, so there's a lot of different routes to go

252
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,400
other than through school.

253
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:20,040
And like you said, you and I are prime examples, which is why I love the fact that he's so

254
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,880
involved in this YouthBuild program, because I look at, you know, the students that he

255
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,480
has and they're just like me.

256
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,720
So you know, I think it's great.

257
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:30,720
Absolutely.

258
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,440
Well, you talked about being in school and getting injured.

259
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,680
You're obviously, you know, playing football was your main sport.

260
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:40,320
I want to get into injury in a second, but career aspirations at that point in your life,

261
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:41,480
what were you dreaming of becoming?

262
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:43,560
Was it a professional football player?

263
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:53,680
No, honestly, I definitely knew that that that was definitely a dream, right?

264
00:16:53,680 --> 00:17:01,480
To me, it was I wanted to really just just go to school and go to school for free.

265
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,680
That was the biggest thing.

266
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,720
You know, didn't have I had bright ended up getting bright futures.

267
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,760
And my mom and, you know, my dad were playing into Florida prepaid.

268
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:17,520
So I had some money to go get my associate's degree and go to community college.

269
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:23,640
But obviously, I wanted to go play football at the next level because any kid that's playing

270
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,440
any sport as a younger, that's your dream, right?

271
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:31,520
Is to go play the next level.

272
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:36,000
So when I was in high school, I didn't know which route I wanted to go in terms of like

273
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,680
professionally.

274
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:43,400
I was leaning more towards law or even politics.

275
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:48,520
And that was I was a business major and political science major when I was at Florida State.

276
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:54,440
So obviously, it didn't it didn't work out.

277
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,680
So when it came, it came into play a little bit later in a different way.

278
00:17:58,680 --> 00:17:59,680
It did.

279
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:00,680
It did.

280
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:01,680
So what about the injury?

281
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:02,680
What did you do?

282
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:04,040
And then how did you deal with that?

283
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,840
Because a lot of people, even if they're younger, if you know there's at least going to be a

284
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:15,200
journey for, you know, X amount of years past that moment, you it's easy to kind of again,

285
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:16,720
the same as we'll talk about in the fire service.

286
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,880
You know, you have that tribe, which is your football team.

287
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:19,880
You have the identity.

288
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,800
Well, I'm a high school football player.

289
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:26,200
So what was the injury and how did that impact you not only physically, but mentally?

290
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:27,200
Yes.

291
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:32,120
I mean, I got injured in basketball season.

292
00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:38,040
I went up to block a shot, block the shot, came down, landed on the other guy's foot

293
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,480
and broke my ankle pretty bad.

294
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:46,240
I had some small schools that had offered me at the time because of that injury, they

295
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,240
ended up getting pulled.

296
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:54,600
The one college that was still interested in me when I broke my ankle was the University

297
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,240
of Buffalo.

298
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,320
But their head coach at the time was Turner Gill.

299
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:03,400
He ended up leaving after a really good season and going to coach at the University of Kansas.

300
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,560
When he left, new head coach came in, you know, kind of cleaned house with the coaching

301
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,320
staff and never heard from them again.

302
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:20,440
So the recruiting process as a whole was very difficult to kind of navigate.

303
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:27,000
You know, you have interest, you know, a lot of schools that would visit my high school

304
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,120
and not because of me.

305
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:34,720
We had some absolutely insane players on our team that were very highly ranked.

306
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,080
But you know, having these college coaches there and showing interest in you and then

307
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,240
really kind of dealing with that, nothing coming to fruition.

308
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:46,240
And then right when you're picking up some steam and it looks like I'm going to get,

309
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:53,440
you know, a couple more offers and have a commitment and I have this injury that kind

310
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,440
of pushed a lot of people away.

311
00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:05,920
And then going from, you know, these Division I school to a small Division II school in

312
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:13,040
Illinois, that was another, you know, kind of thing that I had to deal with.

313
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,360
The hardest was not signing on National Signing Day.

314
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:16,600
That was the big one, right?

315
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:21,800
So you know, every high school, they go in the auditorium, they have a whole display,

316
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:27,600
the media is there and they make a whole thing out of it and to be sitting there and not

317
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:32,520
be on that stage with some other teammates, that was really difficult.

318
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:38,800
But you know, you just kind of, you learn to handle, I learned to handle adversity at

319
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,280
a really young age.

320
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:45,800
And you know, I definitely think it made me stronger for some other things that would

321
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,640
come later on in life.

322
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,920
But yeah, that was a hard time.

323
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,600
It was a really hard time.

324
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,440
Yeah, but I think you hear this obviously now in our professions and we're understanding

325
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:02,840
it more, but if you watch the documentary The Weight of Gold, even extremely successful

326
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,600
athletes, say you're an Olympian, you know, you've aged out, you know, this is your last

327
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,600
Olympics and you won gold that year.

328
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:13,000
But literally moments after you step off that podium, now what?

329
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:18,440
Your entire identity from probably four years old up to that point has now been changed

330
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:19,880
and now you're not that thing anymore.

331
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,200
So it's interesting whether it's at the high school level or further, this also has an

332
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,800
impact on us.

333
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:26,800
Right.

334
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:34,400
And that's, that's one thing I tell a lot of athletes that I know, you know, still that

335
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,440
that are in high school and in college right now is that listen, at some point, the game

336
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,000
is going to end for you.

337
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,040
Some of you are going to be lucky enough to play for a lot of years.

338
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,800
Some of you, like you said, that last game, your senior year high school is going to be

339
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,440
the last time you ever put pads on.

340
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:57,320
You know, so that's, that's difficult because like you said earlier, you know, that's kind

341
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:58,320
of your identity.

342
00:21:58,320 --> 00:21:59,480
That's, that's your family.

343
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,560
You know, you're with your football team, that's your support system.

344
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,720
And then all of a sudden now you lose it.

345
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:09,080
You know, losing that locker room is one of the biggest hurdles that you have to jump

346
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,300
when you no longer are playing sports.

347
00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:16,240
And it's something that I've talked about also with a lot of firefighters that are former

348
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:23,160
college professional, even high school athletes, you know, finding the fire service was the

349
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,320
best thing to happen to them.

350
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:29,160
And it's definitely the best thing to happen to me.

351
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:34,260
You know, it's just, it gives you that, that team environment, that family feeling all

352
00:22:34,260 --> 00:22:35,680
over again.

353
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:36,680
And I think it's important.

354
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:45,760
I know we're going to touch on it later, you know, talking about recruiting and how nationwide

355
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,760
there is a recruit, a shortage of entry level firefighters.

356
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:56,780
And you know, hopefully one day we can kind of steal some of these former athletes and

357
00:22:56,780 --> 00:22:59,160
bring them into our profession.

358
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,140
You know, I think there's definitely a market for that.

359
00:23:02,140 --> 00:23:07,140
So being able to find them and help them get into this career and also find that second

360
00:23:07,140 --> 00:23:10,440
family I think would be, would be a big deal.

361
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:11,440
Absolutely.

362
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,640
Well, you mentioned about your friend saying the fire service is made for people like us.

363
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:21,000
Talk to me about your academy and you hire experience going from football player to firefighter.

364
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,040
Yeah.

365
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,200
So the fire academy was awesome.

366
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,600
It was one of, it was like the best four months of my life.

367
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:33,480
I had a great, great group of people that I was in school with.

368
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,600
It would obviously, you know, you're going through your, it's physically demanding every

369
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:42,000
morning you're working out, which was just like how it was when, when I was at Florida

370
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,360
state, you know, I mean, we're it's workouts every morning and then you're going to class.

371
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:49,320
So in the fire academy, you come in, it's an hour workout and then we're in the classroom

372
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,600
learning and then in the afternoon you're back out there in your gear and you're doing

373
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:53,980
physical work.

374
00:23:53,980 --> 00:24:00,040
You know, it was, I would say challenge.

375
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,320
It's definitely challenging because it's different type of work, right?

376
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,200
You're learning all these new skills that, you know, you never, you never learned before.

377
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,280
I mean, I could barely tie my shoes and then now I have to learn how to tie all these different

378
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,160
knots and you know, stuff like that.

379
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:21,160
And you know, yeah, it was, it was awesome, but great group of people.

380
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,080
My instructors were incredible.

381
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:27,720
Actually my lead fire school instructor is now my fire chief.

382
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:35,000
And I mean, he was instrumental when I was in the academy of, you know, being that kind

383
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:41,000
of that idol, you know, that, that person that you envision yourself being, you know,

384
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,440
the movers and shakers of your department is what he would always say.

385
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:49,100
And you know, so I was very lucky to have a great group of people that I was in class

386
00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:53,120
with and also some great role models that we could look up to and say, you know, this

387
00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:55,560
is what I want to be at the end of my career.

388
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:56,920
Where did you go to Academy?

389
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,800
It's called Leary technical.

390
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,880
So it was actually like the Tampa fire Academy.

391
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:11,200
So we had all city of Tampa fire instructors and yeah.

392
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,080
So you mentioned about going to Pasco for us.

393
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,840
It's funny with, with Tampa, when I was in Anaheim, California and I moved back to East

394
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,880
because I had a little boy and my ex wanted to go be close to a family again.

395
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,800
And family is always going to come first for me, even though I adore this profession.

396
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:31,520
And so I was looking at Orange County, some other places, but Tampa was another one.

397
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,640
And I kind of got a fire boner to be completely honest, cause the special operations side,

398
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,480
they had the dive rescue.

399
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,880
So there was a lot of Marine firefighting going on as well, but also there was, they

400
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,880
called it high rise insertion firefighting.

401
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,420
I think is what it was.

402
00:25:45,420 --> 00:25:49,560
And you'd get dangled from a helicopter on the top of the skyscraper and then fight

403
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:50,680
from the roof down.

404
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,040
And I was like, all right, beautiful.

405
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,480
And I actually called one of the Tampa guys and I got an awesome human being and I thank

406
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,320
him to the state for just being so candid.

407
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,880
But I think he was part of the special operations group too.

408
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,960
And he was like, it's a great department here.

409
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,920
He said, but just to let you know, we're in shambles at the moment and we're probably

410
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,180
going to making cuts to the people we already have.

411
00:26:09,180 --> 00:26:10,520
Do not test here.

412
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:11,520
And I was like, okay.

413
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,560
And this was 2008, but yeah.

414
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:21,400
So on paper it looked amazing, but at that time, this was the post crash, people were

415
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,400
not wanting to hire anymore.

416
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:24,400
Right.

417
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:25,400
Yeah.

418
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,840
I mean, my experience there and the people are great.

419
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,400
I think you find that anywhere in the fire service.

420
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:37,760
No matter where you go, the people are great.

421
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:45,800
It wasn't the family atmosphere though that I had when I was in Pasco.

422
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:52,280
The crew that I had before I left, every Tuesday morning you got off, we went golfing.

423
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,280
All of our families knew each other.

424
00:26:54,280 --> 00:27:00,040
We had monthly dinners or going over to our captain's house once a month, making sure

425
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:05,440
that we were a family.

426
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:10,640
And just didn't have that environment in the city.

427
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:17,480
And ultimately that was what kind of made my decision to go back was just, you know,

428
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:23,320
what we do is so much more than just coming to work, doing your job and going home.

429
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:29,280
I feel like if, you know, I tell our new hires, if that's what you're looking for, you should

430
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:34,080
find something else because there's a lot other jobs that pay a lot better than we do

431
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,040
to just show up, go to work and go home.

432
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:38,040
Absolutely.

433
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,680
Well, people say the grass is always greener, you know, and we'll have guys that leave and

434
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,480
go to different departments.

435
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:45,480
Sometimes they'll come back.

436
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,520
I mean, Pablo went for think Marion to you guys to back to Marion and now to Jacksonville.

437
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:50,520
I got that right.

438
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:51,520
Jacksonville.

439
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:52,520
And he's riding a tiller truck.

440
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:53,520
So I don't blame him.

441
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:54,520
Best job in the fire service.

442
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:55,520
Right.

443
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:56,520
I did in the west.

444
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:57,520
Right.

445
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:03,140
But at the same time, there's this kind of this double edged sword.

446
00:28:03,140 --> 00:28:07,760
Because if you stay and you put the work in, in the right environment, you can make your

447
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,480
department a lot better.

448
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,760
And that, you know, is absolutely the case, obviously, with you.

449
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,240
And we're going to hear about that.

450
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,720
Conversely, though, some people myself in the last place I worked, it doesn't matter

451
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,320
how much work you put in.

452
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:25,460
Some organizations are just so cancerous at that moment that you're not going to fix it.

453
00:28:25,460 --> 00:28:30,120
And so for your own mental health, that might be the time to transition to a different department.

454
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:31,600
So the answer is not right or wrong.

455
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,940
It's like, which is the right fit for you and why are you leaving?

456
00:28:34,940 --> 00:28:38,600
If you're just expecting everyone to fix another department and you do nothing, you're probably

457
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:39,640
going to be disappointed.

458
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:45,480
But if you've really, really tried to make differences where you work and it's just negatively

459
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,960
affecting your mental health and there is a department that's actually being progressive

460
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,560
and growing, maybe that's the right place for you to go to.

461
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:53,560
Right.

462
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,240
I mean, the grass is greener where you water it, right?

463
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,560
You know, everywhere has their own set of problems, you know, and it's in like, you

464
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,760
said it's about each individual.

465
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:08,840
If your is your department's issues, are they manageable for you?

466
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,400
You know, if not, and like you said, for your mental health and for your family's well-being,

467
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:17,360
you know, maybe it's best for you to make that jump to another department.

468
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:24,660
I left Pasco because we were starting to improve.

469
00:29:24,660 --> 00:29:31,300
We had a chief that had came from another department and he was that bulldog.

470
00:29:31,300 --> 00:29:32,560
This is what we're going to get done.

471
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:37,960
I mean, had all the documentation in the world to prove why we needed what he said we needed.

472
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:43,760
Now Pasco County, from my knowledge at the time, I'd only been there for three years,

473
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,200
but the history of this department has been.

474
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,360
We don't we can't afford it.

475
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,560
We're not going to do it.

476
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,000
You know, just no to everything, no to any progress.

477
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,440
And that's why everybody left.

478
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:04,320
Like when I got hired at Pasco in 2015, there was a 10 year firefighter at my station on

479
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,640
a shift that left and went to the city of Tampa.

480
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:12,480
I mean, you invest 10 years in the agency and then you leave in year one, you get a

481
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,880
pay raise and you're working less and insurance is cheaper.

482
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,960
You know, why would you not go for your family?

483
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:26,200
So when I came back, it was definitely one of those things like, all right, now we have

484
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,520
to really fight to make this better.

485
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,360
You have to find unconventional ways.

486
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,500
You know, obviously what we're currently doing is not working.

487
00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:40,360
So in 2019, as a union, we started getting political.

488
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:45,080
You know, that's where you make your change is on the politics side.

489
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:54,520
You know, and it was very difficult for us when, you know, I mean, it wasn't until just

490
00:30:54,520 --> 00:31:03,040
this year that our county commissioners actually voted to increase taxes so that we could have

491
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:08,700
more trucks on the road, more staffing, you know, obviously an increase in pay and a reduction

492
00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:11,640
in work hours because we were losing so many people.

493
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,240
So it's not something that you're going to fix overnight.

494
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:22,140
I mean, it took us four years just in lobbying to get to where we are today.

495
00:31:22,140 --> 00:31:25,480
I had John Knox on the show, we were talking to support hit record.

496
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:32,480
He was the LAPD, sorry, LAPD firefighter who was just terminated on the vaccine mandate,

497
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,080
you know, in November 2023, which is another entire conversation.

498
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:37,080
It's insane.

499
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,800
But what he talked about was some of the money that when they spent a lot of money in L.A.

500
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:42,840
backing politicians.

501
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:48,600
And I saw this in Anaheim and Orange County and, you know, other areas is there are there

502
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:53,320
are many cases where firefighters have spent a lot of time canvassing a lot of, you know,

503
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:58,520
union money getting behind someone and then either they don't get in or they get in and

504
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,560
then they turn their back on the fire service.

505
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,800
So how were you able to navigate that specifically with the people that you were interacting

506
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,080
with?

507
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:15,640
So the first thing for us was we were having response times that were 15 minutes plus on

508
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:20,200
a third of all of our calls, your response time was 15 minutes.

509
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:25,200
Very easy to stand in front of them in a public meeting and tell them that this is unacceptable.

510
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:30,480
You know, we did not stand in front of them one time and ask for raises, ask for more

511
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:31,760
time off.

512
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,960
We simply told them these response times are insane.

513
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:41,200
You know, bringing examples, you know, getting public records requests on calls that were

514
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:47,320
being run, you know, trauma alerts, big accidents, cardiac arrest, you know, obviously we everybody

515
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:52,360
knows right after eight minutes in a cardiac arrest, you start experiencing brain death.

516
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:59,040
So when it takes us 15 minutes to get there, it almost makes you ask, why are we going?

517
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,740
You know, by the time we get there, this patient, there's nothing that we're going to be able

518
00:33:02,740 --> 00:33:03,940
to do.

519
00:33:03,940 --> 00:33:09,080
So standing in front of the board of commissioners and just having facts, you know, you can't

520
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:15,040
dispute numbers, we you can dispute emotion, you can dispute policy, you can dispute politics

521
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:16,120
all day long.

522
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,280
But if I'm coming to you with facts that are saying more than half of our calls, it takes

523
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,800
10 minutes plus to get there on a third of them.

524
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,380
It's 15 minutes.

525
00:33:24,380 --> 00:33:27,020
Here's all the examples of people that have died.

526
00:33:27,020 --> 00:33:33,480
Here's people that have had long term, you know, issues because of our lack of response

527
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,400
in the way that you get improved response is you'll have to increase taxes to pay for

528
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,640
the services on the back end.

529
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:47,520
That tax increase is also going to help us get more pay more time off because you're

530
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:52,120
talking about having the ability to hire more firefighters.

531
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,160
So that was how we attacked it.

532
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,600
And it was about two years before we started making progress.

533
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,200
And you know, to be quite frank, we pissed them off.

534
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:09,280
You know, they they knew every other Tuesday that there was going to be 30 to 40 firefighters

535
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,040
standing at the Board of County Commission meeting.

536
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,920
There was going to be three or four of us that were going to stand up there and speak

537
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,560
and we were going to tear them apart.

538
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:20,800
And then we take, you know, obviously take the clips and push on social media.

539
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,160
And the next thing you know, their emails and their phones are blowing off the hook

540
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:30,600
because this is information that the public doesn't know, you know, and that was really

541
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,000
how we started the conversation.

542
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:37,280
You know, we had a little struggle with one of our members who had was diagnosed with

543
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,040
job related cancer, which I'm sure we'll get to later.

544
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,240
And we hammered them on that, too.

545
00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:51,880
The response to that, I think, really made them, OK, we need to we need to fix something

546
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:52,880
here.

547
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,360
We need to start helping these guys out because their seats were getting really hot.

548
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,960
You know, unfortunately, it has to get that way.

549
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,320
So it should not have to.

550
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:03,320
Right.

551
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,280
These people should your elected officials, your number one priority should be public

552
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:07,400
safety.

553
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:13,620
So it should not be difficult to get them to move and make things better.

554
00:35:13,620 --> 00:35:19,980
But when it is, you need to have 30, 40 guys and girls showing up for these meetings and

555
00:35:19,980 --> 00:35:21,140
speaking in front of them.

556
00:35:21,140 --> 00:35:26,080
You know, that that raises eyebrows when they start seeing the room packed with firefighters.

557
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,920
I've talked about this quite a bit.

558
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:29,920
Two things.

559
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,720
Firstly, when you talk about the community's response and I'm literally talking to someone

560
00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:36,240
I can't remember who it was now literally a day or two ago.

561
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:42,040
But when fire stations are closed, when staffing goes from four to three on a rig or, God forbid,

562
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:48,160
three to two, which is insane again, no one tells the community, hey, your level of service

563
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:49,200
has been diminished.

564
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,680
No one cuts them a refund on some of their taxes because, you know, when the stations

565
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,320
ran out or closed or whatever it is.

566
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:01,480
So I realize that there's a huge disconnect between what the public thinks we do and what

567
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:02,480
we actually do.

568
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,400
And anyone listening now, I'm sure, has heard why is there a fire engine on a medical call?

569
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,300
Well, we've been doing EMS in our area for 50 years now.

570
00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:14,280
So that, again, shows what a terrible job we've done of branding, of telling the, you

571
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,960
know, teaching the community what we actually do and why we need the things that we need.

572
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:25,600
As you started having these conversations, was there a sense of realization that they

573
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:30,240
were actually were quite uneducated on the very roles that some of these people that

574
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:33,000
worked under them were doing?

575
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,000
Absolutely.

576
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:40,680
That it was amazing to see how not only does the public have no idea what we do, but our

577
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:46,360
county commissioners have no idea what we do.

578
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:53,400
You know, it was I can't tell you how many times I got the what took you so long, you

579
00:36:53,400 --> 00:37:00,360
know, during that 2019 to 2022, really, you know, in those years, it was almost every

580
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:01,360
call.

581
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,640
And I even had people telling me that they call 911 and it just rings and rings and rings.

582
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,400
It's like, OK, so we have a real big problem here.

583
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,640
Well, and then the public's asking, what do you do?

584
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,880
Well, contact your county commissioner.

585
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,640
I mean, that's how you make change.

586
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,840
But the public, like I said, we really started engaging a lot on social media and trying

587
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,520
to educate them through their our following increase drastically.

588
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:30,680
We actually as a union board, we now have a, you know, social media.

589
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,720
What am I trying to say?

590
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:37,240
Like the head of a head of social media on our executive board, that that's all he does.

591
00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:39,160
He just worries about public engagement.

592
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,680
You know, if the department isn't going to educate them, well, then we're going to educate

593
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:43,680
them.

594
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:51,440
And like I said, I mean, you would actually be amazed at how many people watch the at

595
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,200
least in our area, the online county commission meetings.

596
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,480
So we're standing up there and we're you know, you have three minutes to speak and we're

597
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:02,480
talking about response times and how the call volumes increase and how our staffing has

598
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,240
not how our trucks have not.

599
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:06,080
And this is how long you have to wait.

600
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:12,240
And when you call 911, I mean, it's a scary thing, right, especially in the older population.

601
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:17,240
You have a heart attack, you call 911, it takes 15 minutes, you know, that's life or

602
00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:18,240
death.

603
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:22,040
So a lot of a lot of our public, you know, they got involved in sort of making phone

604
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:23,320
calls and sending emails.

605
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:28,520
And that's what caused the change in my opinion.

606
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:33,800
So a lot of these issues we were talking earlier about being proactive with the youth in the

607
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,120
community.

608
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:39,360
It's so reactive in the fire service, you know, and when there are initiatives that

609
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,800
need to be made, and people will go, well, how are we going to find the money for that?

610
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:49,000
And I'm the most ridiculously dumb person when it comes to math, I just am.

611
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:50,920
It's the way that I'm wired.

612
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:57,120
But I understand the false economy of working your responders into the ground of being under

613
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,440
staff paying over time, you know, etc, etc, etc.

614
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:05,240
And how that is a complete false economy, because that long term costs way more money

615
00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:09,000
than a well staff department that's, you know, given the rest and recovery.

616
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,640
So of course, we're going to transition into work weeks and stuff.

617
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:17,160
But again, as you're getting through this journey, you know, you talked about being

618
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,040
a stepping stone department, like Marion County is where I live, you know, people come in,

619
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,480
they let you train them.

620
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,000
And then they leave with all that knowledge and experience and the costs from what I understand

621
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:32,280
here are $15,000 per firefighter between equipment and training and the rest benefits.

622
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:38,960
So what were you seeing fiscally, as far as the way you were being worked, you know, early

623
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,960
years, like 18, etc.

624
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:52,720
So over time was off the charts, you know, and even though it got a little better in

625
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:58,040
the 2000 in the 2020 2021, well, I guess actually post COVID is when it started getting better.

626
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:02,840
In 2023, we still worked 88,000 hours of overtime.

627
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,160
So yeah, it got better.

628
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,160
And it's still pretty bad.

629
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:16,300
So the county looks at that, you know, I mean, it's hard to get a real number from them on

630
00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:18,380
what that actually cost.

631
00:40:18,380 --> 00:40:22,200
But 88,000 hours of overtime, that's a substantial number.

632
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:27,800
That's a substantial amount of money that's unbudgeted that you would save if you just,

633
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,800
if we were at minimum staffing.

634
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:35,800
And then when you look at, so we did contract negotiations, September, October, at that

635
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:43,720
time in the last year and a half, we had saw about 120, 130 firefighters leave our department.

636
00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:47,840
Now I know you said it's about $15,000, but a lot of people realize too is when you're

637
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:52,600
a new hire firefighter, they have to front load into the FRS 24%.

638
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,780
So 24% of your salary, boom, that's gone.

639
00:40:55,780 --> 00:40:59,200
That the Kent department sends off to the state, non-refundable.

640
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:04,280
On top of all your gear, you know, background checks, obviously all the training hours.

641
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:09,920
It's it is a huge financial burden to just have people come in and then to leave, you

642
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:14,360
know, a year later, two years later.

643
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,080
Even when you're paying for paramedic school as well, you know, you pay for them to go

644
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:22,960
to med school and then they do their year and then they're gone.

645
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:32,200
So that is what prompted the county to finally get on board with what we're going to get

646
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:38,220
into and changing our work schedule and increasing our pay.

647
00:41:38,220 --> 00:41:41,160
So well, let's talk about that then.

648
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:48,800
So tell me, you know, what what were you initially working as far as the shift schedule and what

649
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,600
did you transition to and where are you going to be in twenty twenty six?

650
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,680
So when I got hired, we had no Kelly Day.

651
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:01,760
So you know, your pay periods were you had to 120 pay periods and you had a 96 hour pay

652
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,840
period in two thousand and nineteen.

653
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,940
We went to a six week Kelly Day.

654
00:42:08,940 --> 00:42:15,860
So the total of twenty seven or four hours worked, you know, every year.

655
00:42:15,860 --> 00:42:17,960
Other departments were at a three week Kelly Day.

656
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,400
So still behind them in terms of hours worked.

657
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,300
We never even with the six week Kelly Day, we never hit that minimum staffing.

658
00:42:25,300 --> 00:42:31,080
So you're still working a lot of overtime.

659
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:36,280
What we finally agreed to in our last contract was going to a twenty four seventy two work

660
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:37,280
schedule.

661
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:44,260
Now, that's not scheduled to start until April of twenty six.

662
00:42:44,260 --> 00:42:47,520
They're thinking that we can probably get it done a little earlier, maybe in January

663
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:48,520
of twenty six.

664
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,760
But I mean, that's that's huge.

665
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:55,680
It's a reduction of five hundred and twenty hours, you know, worked a year, you know,

666
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,720
working one day off three.

667
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:00,200
That's life changing.

668
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:06,440
I mean, I know we talked about it before is that first day you come off is a recovery

669
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,840
day that that is and that's if you have the ability to recover.

670
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,400
You know, a lot of us work a second and a third job.

671
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,160
So you might be at a station.

672
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:19,120
You just ran four or five after midnight getting off at eight to go to your next job.

673
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,800
Then you get home at five or six o'clock that night to take care of your family.

674
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,040
And then you repeat the next day.

675
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,260
So there really is no time off.

676
00:43:28,260 --> 00:43:32,680
You know, this the twenty four seventy two was beneficial for the department and for

677
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,600
the county because number one, it helps recruitment and retention.

678
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:37,600
Right.

679
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:42,380
Like since we've agreed on that contract, I think we've had two resignations and those

680
00:43:42,380 --> 00:43:48,880
have been career changes, not people leaving to go to other departments.

681
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:55,560
You take that and you add on top of the fact that we got an average of a twenty four percent

682
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:56,560
pay increase.

683
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,960
And it's like, OK, this is a huge investment that they're putting into us.

684
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:05,400
They finally realize that they're instead of just losing all this money in overtime

685
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:10,560
and people leaving, why don't we invest in our people, make life a little bit better

686
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:15,440
and be able to actually compete with the surrounding agencies?

687
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:24,320
So it's it's actually been exciting to see how many people are talking about our department

688
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:29,920
and talking about leaving their department to come work for us, which has never has never

689
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:31,520
been a thing before.

690
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,800
So it's exciting.

691
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,480
It took a lot of work and.

692
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,080
A lot of bloodshed, a lot of tears shed to get to this point.

693
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,480
But to sit here and say that we're finally here and on this twenty four seventy two schedule

694
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,820
that it's it's incredible.

695
00:44:48,820 --> 00:44:52,920
Never in a million years, I think that Pasco County Fire Rescue would be on a twenty four

696
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:53,920
seventy two.

697
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,040
So but it's progressive.

698
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:57,040
And this is exciting.

699
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,920
This is what I've kind of threw out to the fire service this year specifically is.

700
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:03,720
And I put it this way.

701
00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:10,240
We are a very courageous profession when you look operationally, you know, most of us,

702
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:12,800
you know, as a fire, you're going to make entry, you're not going to hide behind the

703
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,800
rig and bleed out your tank.

704
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,400
You know, you're going to go over the side on a rope, whatever it is, because that's

705
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:19,400
what we signed up for.

706
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:20,400
That's what we want to do.

707
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:21,780
We want to serve.

708
00:45:21,780 --> 00:45:24,840
But they're really, for lack of a better word, has been a lot of cowardice when it comes

709
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:30,880
to advocating for our own health, you know, because you'll have someone who will be so

710
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:32,240
courageous in uniform.

711
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:34,760
But then you say, oh, yeah, we're thinking about this shift schedule.

712
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:36,160
Oh, that'll never happen.

713
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:37,720
They'll just beat you down.

714
00:45:37,720 --> 00:45:42,280
And I was like, that's such a bitch move to just discount it.

715
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,000
But that's what a paradox it is.

716
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,880
And to be completely fair, so many of us are so damn beat down and tired that we just don't

717
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,400
have that fight in us.

718
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:54,960
But what's beautiful is, you know, Boynton Beach has had their chief Hugh Bruder on you

719
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:55,960
guys.

720
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,080
Now you're the hope.

721
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,560
You're the foothold of that first step again.

722
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,400
It's going to be like, no, this can happen.

723
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:03,400
This isn't a pipe dream.

724
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,080
And it never should have been even viewed that way, because what you're asking for is

725
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:13,760
a 42 hour work week, which those city and county council members work 40 hours a week

726
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,300
and go to their own bed every night.

727
00:46:15,300 --> 00:46:18,040
So it's not a unicorn fighting rainbows.

728
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,960
It's just coming back down to what the rest of the world actually works.

729
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:24,580
But I think it's it's I'm so excited.

730
00:46:24,580 --> 00:46:29,280
And now what we need with this momentum is everyone else to stop fighting, as you said,

731
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,800
going to the union, looking for money, you know, looking for that 50 cent raise and actually

732
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:38,400
understand that there's so much more value in changing the work schedule so that we give

733
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:43,080
our men and women the rest and recovery rather than a 50 cent raise that you fought tooth

734
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:47,400
and nail on a contract negotiation that lasted two years.

735
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:48,400
Right.

736
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:57,220
I mean, you know, the schedule was very difficult, like you were talking about, is that people

737
00:46:57,220 --> 00:46:58,280
are going to be right.

738
00:46:58,280 --> 00:46:59,360
They're going to happen.

739
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:00,360
That's impossible.

740
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,320
The other side of it, too, is we love going to work.

741
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:05,320
Right.

742
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,240
Firefighters love what we do.

743
00:47:07,240 --> 00:47:08,600
That's why we do it.

744
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,080
You know, they love station life.

745
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,460
They love coming and being able to do the job.

746
00:47:13,460 --> 00:47:18,920
So that was a hurdle for us was talking to our members and saying this is what's being

747
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,200
discussed and they didn't want it.

748
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,720
They didn't want it because they like coming to work.

749
00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:27,120
We need people like that.

750
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:28,120
Right.

751
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,920
Those people need people to look out for their well-being.

752
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:38,160
And that's what our job as union leadership is to take care of them, take care of that

753
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:39,160
whole firefighter.

754
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:40,160
Right.

755
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,040
The firefighter, the county looks at you as just an employee.

756
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:44,680
The city looks at you as just an employee.

757
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:46,320
But you're more than that.

758
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,440
You're a father, a mother, a son, a daughter, brother, sister.

759
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:50,440
Right.

760
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:58,040
So if we can take care of you mentally, physically, financially, that is what is important.

761
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:04,680
We want you to live a very good, stress free, as much as possible life while you're in the

762
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:05,680
fire service.

763
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,640
And the ultimate goal is to live a long, happy, healthy retirement after.

764
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:16,720
So reducing this work, your work hours.

765
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:19,540
You can't put a dollar amount on it.

766
00:48:19,540 --> 00:48:22,320
You know, I mean, we see it every day.

767
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:23,880
Firefighters passing away from cancer.

768
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:31,880
I mean, I was two days ago, the IFF sent out three line of duty deaths from cancer.

769
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:33,880
It's all the time.

770
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:39,560
The International Agency of Research on Cancer, IARC, is talking about making shift work a

771
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:44,760
two way carcinogen, which means that it's probably carcinogenic to humans.

772
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:51,720
So not only are the calls that we're going on killing us, our job itself is killing us.

773
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:53,180
How do we change that?

774
00:48:53,180 --> 00:48:55,680
You know, this is the beginning.

775
00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:03,760
The schedule is the start of hopefully a vast shift in the fire service.

776
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,360
So I'll kind of pose some of the push backs that I've had.

777
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,160
I've been talking about this for seven years now, 2472.

778
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:15,480
And this is really literally what made me start the podcast as I listened to Kurt Parsley,

779
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:21,840
Navy SEAL turned doctor, realized that sleep deprivation was basically killing his SEALs

780
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:26,360
and changed the way they train, gave them some supplementation to help them sleep and

781
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,880
they need to sleep, get them off ambient, et cetera, et cetera.

782
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:33,800
And I'm listening to this nine years ago, whatever it was, eight years and going, why

783
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,720
do we not understand this in the fire service?

784
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:38,960
I've been in exercise physiology in school.

785
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:40,440
Why do I not understand it?

786
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:45,040
I'm somewhat educated in health compared to the average person and I still hadn't heard

787
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:46,480
this before.

788
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:52,720
And so, you know, now you fast forward, you realize it's so, so, so simple, but I've been

789
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:55,040
getting the same kind of push backs.

790
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,880
Now one, which I think is really disgusting.

791
00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:59,560
Well, a couple of things.

792
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:05,040
Firstly, can you show me the research that shows that, for example, the 56 would be worse

793
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:06,040
than a 42?

794
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:10,620
And I literally facepalm and go, you know, I can get you some research that shows you

795
00:50:10,620 --> 00:50:13,000
if I kick you in the nuts, it's going to hurt.

796
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,560
You know, there's a certain point where you don't need fucking research.

797
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:16,560
You know what I mean?

798
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:17,560
It's just common sense.

799
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:21,200
If you need data for that, you should not be in the position that you're in.

800
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:22,760
That's number one.

801
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,920
Number two, and I get this from chiefs all the time.

802
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:30,000
Well, if we give these guys more time off, they're just going to work more overtime.

803
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:34,720
Firstly, who the fuck made you in charge of someone when they're on their days off?

804
00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:40,560
Secondly, if you staff your department properly, there won't be the overtime for them to abuse.

805
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,120
So they will work on their days off, but they'll teach at the fire academy.

806
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,080
They'll hang drywall, the landscape.

807
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,960
They'll be tired from the day's work and they'll sleep in their own bed at night.

808
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,560
Nothing wrong with that at all if you need to make ends meet.

809
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:56,800
But that's why I said I'm going to ask you some questions and just monologue for five

810
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:57,800
minutes.

811
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:02,960
But the first one, people say we can't even hire now.

812
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,440
How are we supposed to get people for this extra shift?

813
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:10,660
So I mean, I obviously have responses as well, but what would your be?

814
00:51:10,660 --> 00:51:13,920
What would your response be first to that?

815
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:19,800
That the fire service is still a highly sought after profession.

816
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:27,760
But people, especially since COVID in 2020, I think they value their time off.

817
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:32,520
They value their home life a lot more than what they did maybe before.

818
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:37,160
I think 2020 made you realize that what truly is important.

819
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:43,440
And you have a lot of people that can now make money at home and online.

820
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:52,160
If you change kind of, let me see, changing the schedule is a big deal, right?

821
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:53,720
Because I know that I can go to work.

822
00:51:53,720 --> 00:51:55,000
I'm going to work my 24 hours.

823
00:51:55,000 --> 00:52:02,320
I'm going to do my job, this very honorable profession, make decent money, great benefits

824
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,640
and be able to recover.

825
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:09,080
The fire service right now as a whole is pushing like the cancer, right?

826
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:12,400
I mean, no matter where you look, you see another firefighter died from cancer.

827
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:14,200
I mean, it's very public.

828
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,320
It's on the news all the time.

829
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,840
I think that's another, it deters people.

830
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,560
Why would you want to sign up for something that everybody is telling you is going to

831
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,760
kill you at some point?

832
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:28,280
Whether it's a cardiac issue or getting cancer.

833
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:37,120
Being able to recruit is really, it's hard right now.

834
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:38,120
It really is.

835
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:44,040
We have to find kind of a way to change what we're doing to hopefully get people to want

836
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,960
to get into this profession.

837
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:52,280
For us, recruiting I think is going to be very easy because we're going to just pull

838
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,520
people from other departments.

839
00:52:54,520 --> 00:53:01,120
There are quite a few departments around us that they don't have any Cali Day.

840
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:11,000
They're paid pretty low and those people are going to come look for something better.

841
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:16,520
Hopefully this is a catalyst for all those other departments to start improving because

842
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:24,400
if they stay stagnant, they're going to lose a lot of their workforce.

843
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,200
I think this is going to fix our recruitment problem and definitely our retention problem,

844
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:34,160
but for other agencies, they got a long road ahead of them I think.

845
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:43,960
You need to address the employee and make working at that agency good.

846
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:51,760
I'm trying to think of a word I'm looking for.

847
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:57,560
What's an environment for them to thrive rather than an environment that breaks them down?

848
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,580
Again, this is what you get for being proactive.

849
00:54:00,580 --> 00:54:03,480
You win the prize.

850
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:08,640
This is a long time coming because how many departments have pitched all your, as we say

851
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:12,480
in England, taken all your candidates that you trained up and now they're wearing a different

852
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:13,480
badge.

853
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:15,360
Well, now it turns around the other way.

854
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:16,360
I think this is it.

855
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:20,400
This is a call to action, which is why I hope where I live, Marion and Ocala, they're paying

856
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,800
attention because you guys are going to go to 2472.

857
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:27,240
Gainesville, Florida is about to switch to 2472.

858
00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:28,240
This is happening.

859
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:29,640
The revolution has begun.

860
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:34,560
There's nothing you can fucking do to stop it now, which has made my 2024 amazing so

861
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,960
far.

862
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:44,320
The fact that we have a deficit, my generation, when I got hired in 03, we were testing against

863
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,440
thousands of people for a handful of jobs.

864
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,000
That's how the fire service used to be.

865
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:51,960
The job has pretty much stayed the same.

866
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,040
I mean, obviously the school shootings and some of these other elements have definitely

867
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:59,080
got worse and worse, but overall the job has got the same.

868
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:04,960
The only thing that's really changed is the call volume has obviously gone up, but also,

869
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:11,120
as you said, the ability to actually research the whole picture that is a career in the

870
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,720
fire service now gives you the whole picture.

871
00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:19,480
Before when I came on and I didn't have anyone in the fire service, it was backdraft and

872
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,180
ladder 49 and 9-11.

873
00:55:22,180 --> 00:55:24,640
That was kind of my entry to the fire service.

874
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,400
I didn't even realize what station life was.

875
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,240
I learned as I went along.

876
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:34,400
Now if I put in, say I'm going to research firefighter coat and I put firefighter C,

877
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:39,720
the next word is going to populate in Google is answer, firefighter strap.

878
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:42,440
It's going to be firefighter suicide.

879
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,080
This is just the reality.

880
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:49,720
Our line of duty deaths, like you said, cancer, suicide, heart disease, strokes, these are

881
00:55:49,720 --> 00:55:52,720
all getting worse and worse and worse.

882
00:55:52,720 --> 00:55:57,000
Add into that the diminished staffing and then the mandatory overtime.

883
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:58,000
That's a huge one.

884
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:02,160
Wait, so I work 56 and then I can't go home the next morning?

885
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:06,680
This is the reality and everyone listening, this is the world that we work in.

886
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:10,920
The only way that we're going to get people circling around and deciding they do want

887
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:14,280
to be a firefighter is we fix those things.

888
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:19,000
They stayed behind the curtain for so long, but now they're right in the middle for everyone

889
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:24,440
to see and either we change them or some departments will have firefighters and some cities will

890
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:26,440
be unprotected.

891
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:28,880
Yeah, absolutely.

892
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,320
I mean, it just goes back to the whole thing.

893
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,240
You have to take care of your people.

894
00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:40,160
Our agencies now know the dangers that we face every day and not just the dangers of

895
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:41,160
the job.

896
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:42,960
It's the unseen dangers, right?

897
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:44,180
It's the mental health part.

898
00:56:44,180 --> 00:56:45,360
It's the cancer part.

899
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,380
It's the cardiac part.

900
00:56:47,380 --> 00:56:52,400
Being able to address those issues is what's going to make people want to come work for

901
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,520
your agency.

902
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,960
Not every agency in Florida is going to work 2472s.

903
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:01,280
I know for a fact that there are going to be big departments that surround us that are

904
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,000
not going to go to 2472s.

905
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:15,580
At some point, they are going to get left just like Pasco was left in the 2010s.

906
00:57:15,580 --> 00:57:19,880
The mental health, like you said, you type in firefighter strap and the first thing you

907
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,080
see is suicide.

908
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:30,720
That's another big reason why this schedule is so beneficial is helping being able to

909
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:40,160
come home and decompress and have that time off, those days off to kind of reset, get

910
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:46,440
that sleep and continue moving on and going back to shift the next day.

911
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:47,440
We're not tired.

912
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,360
We're not working 48s.

913
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:56,280
With this schedule, no matter where you are, no matter what department you are, you have

914
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:58,400
a 2472, you're going to have candidates.

915
00:57:58,400 --> 00:57:59,400
You're going to have people apply.

916
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,680
They're going to come from all over the state, from all different agencies.

917
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:08,920
Overtime is probably, is definitely going to go away.

918
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:16,520
It might be a struggle in the beginning just because you've added a whole another shift,

919
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,560
but very soon after implementation, overtime is going to go away.

920
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,080
That's better for obviously our physical and our mental health.

921
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:23,080
Yeah.

922
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:24,080
It'll always be there.

923
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:25,560
They'll be infrequent over time.

924
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:30,360
I think the other thing that people understand operationally is if you have a D shift, then

925
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:33,840
we have a storm roll through like we did yesterday.

926
00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:38,640
You have an entire platoon of men and women that you can call in then.

927
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:42,800
So it, and then also from what I've heard and correct me if I'm wrong, when it comes

928
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:48,120
to the Kelly days, six or three, they're a staffing nightmare and then they're usually

929
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:49,860
overtime covering those as well.

930
00:58:49,860 --> 00:58:54,880
So you're eliminating a lot of the admin stress by having four consecutive shifts.

931
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:55,880
Right.

932
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:58,040
Because you don't have those vacancies.

933
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:06,120
On our six week Kelly day, we have three captains off, three drivers off and 10 firefighters

934
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:07,440
off.

935
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,160
Almost every single day of the week.

936
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:14,120
So if you're not at minimum staffing, you're going to be hiring, like I know C shift struggled

937
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:16,420
for a long time in our department.

938
00:59:16,420 --> 00:59:21,080
They're hiring overtime every weekend just because of the Kelly day vacancies and the

939
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:22,760
PTO vacancies.

940
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:26,440
You know, getting rid of that Kelly, like you said, you're not going to have people

941
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:30,240
that are off shift unless they're on PTO.

942
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:34,820
And it doesn't leave a lot of holes to fill for overtime.

943
00:59:34,820 --> 00:59:41,720
So you know, to me, this is it's kind of a no brainer.

944
00:59:41,720 --> 00:59:45,000
I know a lot of people are apprehensive because it's new.

945
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:46,000
Right.

946
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:50,960
And we are going to be the largest department, at least in the state of Florida, to go to

947
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:51,960
this.

948
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:53,640
You know, we're a 700 person department.

949
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:58,360
So it's going to be it's a big project.

950
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,880
It's going to have, you know, some difficulties to go along the way.

951
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:07,520
And I think that was a lot of the apprehension with our membership was just because believing

952
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:12,280
that this could be implemented and that it would be successful because the six week Kelly

953
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:18,800
day really wasn't, you know, that we did not get the recruits that they thought we would

954
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:19,800
get.

955
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,520
We never retained like they thought we would.

956
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:27,240
So I think people are really nervous, you know, about the implementation.

957
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:30,680
But me, I think this is going to be great.

958
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:34,120
I think it's going to be easy to fill these spots.

959
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:36,960
I just I don't know.

960
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:39,880
There's no.

961
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:45,120
In my opinion, there's nothing bad that can come from having a 24 72.

962
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:47,460
Another question I get is how are we going to afford it?

963
01:00:47,460 --> 01:00:48,680
How are we going to afford this?

964
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:50,640
This new group?

965
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:55,780
And a lot of times, I mean, if it's 24 48, no Kelly, obviously now you're there's always

966
01:00:55,780 --> 01:00:56,780
going to be give and take.

967
01:00:56,780 --> 01:01:00,260
So like Orange County, where I worked, no Kelly day.

968
01:01:00,260 --> 01:01:05,480
But we got I forget now I had only five years on my left there, but I think we got 12 13

969
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:06,680
vacations day a year.

970
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:11,320
So obviously you would negotiate a handful of those away because you as you said, you'd

971
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,200
have a lesser work week.

972
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:18,040
You know, if you have Kelly's and you use that as a bargaining chip as well.

973
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:24,360
But with the affordability, when you understand how much overtime is being paid, the impact

974
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:28,720
of the injuries in the mental health claims, the medical retirement, the wrongful death

975
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:33,640
lawsuits when we make mistakes, there's a huge amount of money flowing out the back

976
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:37,120
end by the way that we work on men and women now.

977
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:41,520
So from a budget point of view, how are you able to send sell the fact that you were going

978
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:44,360
to have to put some money up front?

979
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,320
But then in the long term, there would be a huge savings down the road.

980
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:48,320
Yeah.

981
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:53,900
Well, I mean, obviously the the overtime reduction, not just in the eighty eight thousand hours

982
01:01:53,900 --> 01:01:59,160
that they paid out last year, but also the fact that on a six week Kelly day, you know,

983
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:00,820
we do paycheck averaging.

984
01:02:00,820 --> 01:02:05,040
So you have three hours of built in overtime in every paycheck.

985
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,160
Now you no longer have that.

986
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:10,780
The way that we did it was that, you know, we're going to do paycheck averaging again.

987
01:02:10,780 --> 01:02:16,200
So every pay period, you're twenty two hours under that FLSA threshold to pay that time

988
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:17,200
and a half.

989
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:19,960
So that's going to save the county money right there.

990
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:23,960
If you get hired for overtime on your first overtime shift, your first twenty two hours

991
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:25,640
is going to be straight time.

992
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:31,560
You know, it's still it's at a drastically higher hourly rate.

993
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:35,720
So you're still making some pretty decent money in that first twenty two hours.

994
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:37,840
But you know, it's kind of that give and take, right?

995
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:42,920
Like what what is tolerable for our membership versus what is the county looking for?

996
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:44,740
Obviously the county wants to save money.

997
01:02:44,740 --> 01:02:50,400
They are hemorrhaging in overtime and people leaving for their departments.

998
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:52,000
You know, they can't recruit.

999
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:54,200
So they're.

1000
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:56,760
You have to kind of it's a collaborative effort, right?

1001
01:02:56,760 --> 01:03:01,880
To try and find that answer, solve, solve the problem on both sides of the table.

1002
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:07,120
And that's that's where it's solved was in that overtime pay, the built in overtime and

1003
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:08,120
the retention.

1004
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:11,240
You know, I see all the money that's just flying out the door and say, we could pay

1005
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:13,160
a little bit up front.

1006
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:17,320
But long term, this is going to save us money over the next 10 years.

1007
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:21,520
And that was how it got sold to our commission.

1008
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:25,120
And, you know, ultimately they they agreed.

1009
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:29,400
Yeah, because I mean, it's that, you know, plant the seed of a tree under which the shade

1010
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:33,360
you will never know if you are the courageous leader, whether you're a fire chief or the

1011
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:39,540
your administrator, understanding that what you're doing is for following generations

1012
01:03:39,540 --> 01:03:40,840
is a true leader.

1013
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,800
That's courageous, selfless leadership.

1014
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:49,360
The problem that we have with a lot of people, and I would argue even in some unions as well.

1015
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:54,880
And I love the fact that you are one of the leaders in your unions because I don't I don't

1016
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,840
union bash good leaders in the union.

1017
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:01,240
But we have some fucking terrible people in our unions that have done nothing for years

1018
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:06,660
and years and years and years and years, which I want to drag out into the into the spotlight.

1019
01:04:06,660 --> 01:04:13,800
So as far as that selfless leadership, you are then giving to your your department.

1020
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:19,480
But if you are only concerned about how you look in that financial year, that budget year,

1021
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:21,240
you're never ever going to improve.

1022
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:24,680
If you're just worried about getting reelected as a union president because you're not doing

1023
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:29,640
anything courageous and pushing the needle a little bit, then you're never going to make

1024
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:30,640
changes.

1025
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:34,120
So this is why, again, we need this courage from our firefighters to demand this.

1026
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:39,480
We need our courage from our leaders in the fire service as far as actually wearing bugles

1027
01:04:39,480 --> 01:04:43,960
or sitting in a political position to understand that it isn't for you.

1028
01:04:43,960 --> 01:04:45,440
This is for them.

1029
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:49,060
And if it's about you, you need to look in the mirror and ask why you're even in that

1030
01:04:49,060 --> 01:04:51,600
seat in the middle at all.

1031
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:55,240
But this is the time for you to actually finally step up and lead.

1032
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:59,400
During Covid, it was clear who the leaders were and who they were people that were in

1033
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,880
leadership positions that had no business being there whatsoever.

1034
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:05,520
Statewide, nationally, whatever it was.

1035
01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:06,520
And it's the same with this.

1036
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:09,160
Like you're being called on to lead.

1037
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:14,200
We go to firefighter funerals all the time and you have the ability to actually make

1038
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:16,200
a difference in those numbers.

1039
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:20,120
Do you turn your back on the men and women in uniform or do you finally stand up?

1040
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:21,120
Oh, yeah.

1041
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:22,120
I mean, absolutely.

1042
01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:24,400
You finally stand up.

1043
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:29,360
You know, if you're not a piece of shit.

1044
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:33,000
But you know, it's you're absolutely right.

1045
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:38,400
I mean, there's there's good and bad in every profession and every I think a lot of people

1046
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:43,240
when they get in leadership, no matter what side of the table it is, you forget where

1047
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:44,240
you came from.

1048
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:52,040
You know, we're very lucky in our department that our administration, the majority of them

1049
01:05:52,040 --> 01:05:54,260
did not forget where they came from.

1050
01:05:54,260 --> 01:06:01,120
You know, I think that our department as a whole is the poster child for collaboration.

1051
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:04,400
You know, we have our union logo on our uniform shirts.

1052
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:07,040
We have our union stickers on our trucks.

1053
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:11,800
It just shows that administration and labor, if they're willing to, they can work hand

1054
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:15,760
in hand and they can ultimately make the workplace better.

1055
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:16,760
And that's what's important.

1056
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:20,280
It's about taking that ego, putting it to the side and knowing that this is what's best

1057
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:22,760
for the membership as a fire chief.

1058
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:29,480
And as admin, this is what's best for your firefighters and being able to listen to both

1059
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:34,320
sides and coming together and saying, you know, my idea might not work.

1060
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:35,320
Your sounds pretty good.

1061
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:39,540
Let's try it.

1062
01:06:39,540 --> 01:06:40,540
You don't have that.

1063
01:06:40,540 --> 01:06:42,400
You don't have that in every local.

1064
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:43,880
You don't have that in every department.

1065
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:50,080
I mean, I know there are quite a few labor leaders that, you know, look at the union

1066
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:57,200
side to kind of get their foot in the door at the next level, you know, to eventually

1067
01:06:57,200 --> 01:07:03,360
be a part of that admin side, not doing what they can to the best of their ability because

1068
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:07,000
they don't want to ruffle feathers and they don't want to, you know, ruin their chances

1069
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:13,080
of one day having those bugles on their shoulders.

1070
01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:16,260
That's not how we do things.

1071
01:07:16,260 --> 01:07:18,120
You know, it's it's 100 percent.

1072
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:19,940
It's for our people.

1073
01:07:19,940 --> 01:07:22,200
We don't care who we piss off along the way.

1074
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:23,640
You know, we're going to work with our admin.

1075
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:27,000
But when it comes time to burn the place to the ground, we're going to burn it to the

1076
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:28,000
ground.

1077
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:34,160
And, you know, we've had that in our department with our politicians.

1078
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:36,040
We've had that the last few years.

1079
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:45,920
So, you know, to finally see our relationships improving and getting to this point is really.

1080
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:46,920
It's incredible.

1081
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:51,760
It's never a million years that I think that we'd be sitting here, you know, talking about

1082
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:52,760
this.

1083
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:53,760
Never.

1084
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:59,280
What was it that you think contributed to that relationship being successful when a

1085
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:00,640
lot of other places struggle?

1086
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:02,680
And obviously, ego is just is one of them.

1087
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:04,680
So we'll take that out for a second.

1088
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:09,360
How were you able to get to the point where you're having union stickers on uniforms and

1089
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:14,920
rigs and that you're actually able to sit in a room and talk like grownups, unlike many,

1090
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:18,880
many union admin conversations?

1091
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:24,680
Well, a lot of that falls on our administration and.

1092
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:25,800
Humility, right?

1093
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:29,920
Them not looking at us like they're better than us or they don't have to worry about

1094
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:33,640
our opinion or even talk to us just saying, hey, we're going to work together.

1095
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:35,820
You know, we're going to take care of you guys.

1096
01:08:35,820 --> 01:08:37,200
You guys take care of us.

1097
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:39,860
You know, there is an understanding, obviously, we're going to butt heads.

1098
01:08:39,860 --> 01:08:41,100
It's going to happen.

1099
01:08:41,100 --> 01:08:43,680
But being able to sit there and just work through it.

1100
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:48,480
It was kind of just like an olive branch, you know, getting getting our logo on on our

1101
01:08:48,480 --> 01:08:50,960
shirts and stickers on the truck is is what it is.

1102
01:08:50,960 --> 01:08:54,760
Because this is just a sign of faith that we're going to work together and continue

1103
01:08:54,760 --> 01:09:01,920
to to work together as we go to the, you know, into the future.

1104
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:03,200
And we got it in our contract.

1105
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:04,200
So right.

1106
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:05,200
I mean, I think it's brilliant.

1107
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:10,960
And the reason why, like I've worked for four departments now and I've I've worked for,

1108
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:12,880
you know, for one, I would say Anaheim.

1109
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:16,880
They had probably the best relationship of all the ones that I've seen.

1110
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:20,460
But I've seen, you know, other departments with I mean, they're negotiating contracts

1111
01:09:20,460 --> 01:09:21,800
for two years.

1112
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:25,440
And I remember even as a young fighter, a younger firefighter, I remember thinking,

1113
01:09:25,440 --> 01:09:30,560
how the fuck can a bunch of men and women not sit in a room and make a fucking decision

1114
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:31,560
to years?

1115
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:32,560
Right.

1116
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:36,720
That's all that's union dues, that's taxpayers money being wasted while these people are

1117
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:38,840
just playing these fucking games.

1118
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:40,960
Meanwhile, lives are at stake.

1119
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:42,120
So this is the thing.

1120
01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:46,680
I love it when I hear people that are, you know, have developed that great relationship

1121
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:51,160
and the union that is advocating for their people and their health and their fitness

1122
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:52,560
and all these other areas.

1123
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:57,080
Because if you're a union and you're opposing a fitness standard because you know that you'll

1124
01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:00,360
fail if you put through that, then shame on you.

1125
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:03,320
If you're a union and you're dragging out negotiation because you know you get more

1126
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:07,160
time off and go smooth with more people, shame on you.

1127
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:08,160
You know what I mean?

1128
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:14,480
Because what's so exciting is when I hear things like this, that the relationship that

1129
01:10:14,480 --> 01:10:20,320
you guys have created benefits the people that you serve, which is the whole point of

1130
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:22,520
the union in the first place.

1131
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:24,200
Right.

1132
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:28,280
It's important to make sure that everything is out in the open.

1133
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:30,720
You know, you don't want to hide anything from the membership because we don't want

1134
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:35,840
any ideas that when we're on union leave, we're just out partying, drinking, you know,

1135
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:41,040
whatever, not conducting business like we're supposed to.

1136
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:48,040
So on social media, we have our internal union page and you know, we're always posting if

1137
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:52,420
we're at a conference, we're at a convention, summaries of what we're doing.

1138
01:10:52,420 --> 01:10:57,740
You know, if we're going to a BCC or we met with certain politicians, what was discussed,

1139
01:10:57,740 --> 01:11:05,040
you know, negotiations is a little difficult because you don't want to say something and

1140
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:08,680
then the next negotiation to go into and it's completely different.

1141
01:11:08,680 --> 01:11:11,080
You know, so it's kind of hard to do that.

1142
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:18,040
But we had an online zoom meeting, you know, right in the middle of negotiations had over

1143
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:22,680
200 members that were logged in watching and just giving them an update of this is what

1144
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:23,680
we're talking about.

1145
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:24,680
This is what we're going through.

1146
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:26,440
And it was just an open floor discussion.

1147
01:11:26,440 --> 01:11:30,160
You know, if our members have questions, we provide answers.

1148
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:33,880
If we don't have the answers, we also tell them that, you know, you don't feed people

1149
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:36,680
a bunch of bullshit because they see right through it.

1150
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:39,760
You know, it I don't know.

1151
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:45,860
It's the last thing that I'm ever want to be accused of is wasting and stealing members

1152
01:11:45,860 --> 01:11:47,600
money in hours.

1153
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:48,600
Right.

1154
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:51,420
So you have to have everything out in the open.

1155
01:11:51,420 --> 01:11:59,040
That's what allows the members to trust you and, you know, continue pushing for what they

1156
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:01,600
need as long as you're doing what's in the best interest of them.

1157
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:04,200
You're never going to be wrong.

1158
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:06,680
And I believe that 100 percent.

1159
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:08,300
Absolutely.

1160
01:12:08,300 --> 01:12:12,360
One other question I want to pose to you, and I'll preface it with this.

1161
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:17,840
I myself, like so many of us, believed the mythology of the fire service having the greatest

1162
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:19,060
schedule in the world.

1163
01:12:19,060 --> 01:12:23,320
And as we've touched on before, you know, 56 and then mandatory is, I would argue, probably

1164
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:26,560
one of the worst schedules actually when you lay out on paper.

1165
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:30,680
But the terminology we use is one day on two days off, you know, and then you look at that

1166
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:33,680
one day like, wait a second, that's 24 hours.

1167
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:36,560
You know, a civilian day is nine hours with a one hour lunch.

1168
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:37,880
It's an eight hour day.

1169
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:42,960
We do three of those crammed together, of which the third portion of that is the second

1170
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:43,960
day.

1171
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:49,600
So actually, we work three days on one day off or 30 days a month, not 10 days a month.

1172
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:53,280
So that's one of the fallacies that I'm trying to educate us because I mean, none of us saw

1173
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:54,280
it.

1174
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:55,280
We just bought in.

1175
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:56,280
We jumped in with both feet.

1176
01:12:56,280 --> 01:12:57,280
This is the greatest profession in the world.

1177
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:00,920
This is why I've been out of uniform for five years and I'm still fighting for it because

1178
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:03,080
I adore it.

1179
01:13:03,080 --> 01:13:09,080
Another fallacy, though, that I hear with 24 72 is, oh, I'm not taking a pay cut.

1180
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,960
Then, you know, if I'm going to lose all those hours.

1181
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:16,440
So again, you know, before I put it in my two cents, what would be your response to

1182
01:13:16,440 --> 01:13:17,440
that?

1183
01:13:17,440 --> 01:13:20,400
Well, it's not a pay cut, right?

1184
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:23,680
I mean, you're so we have a step plan.

1185
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:27,040
So just be look at what step you're in.

1186
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:31,320
That's the dollar amount that you're going to make, whether you're working 24 72 or you're

1187
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:33,080
working a six week Kelly Day.

1188
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:39,160
So whether you're working a 2700 and four hours a year or you're working 2184 hours

1189
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:42,820
a year, that's what you're going to make on the 24 72.

1190
01:13:42,820 --> 01:13:44,520
Your time is more valuable.

1191
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:46,580
Your PTO is more valuable.

1192
01:13:46,580 --> 01:13:51,040
You know, there it on top of the fact that we got raises to go along with it.

1193
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:57,560
But even if we didn't, once again, your time is more valuable, right?

1194
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:02,020
You're not losing any money.

1195
01:14:02,020 --> 01:14:06,800
So it's really it's just a it's a fallacy, right?

1196
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:12,640
Like it's just something that people say to try and get others not to vote.

1197
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:13,640
Yes.

1198
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:17,900
You know, for some reason in their mind, no, we're losing money.

1199
01:14:17,900 --> 01:14:20,760
There's no way that we're going to work less and they're going to pay us the same or no

1200
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,320
way we're going to work less and pay them more.

1201
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:26,760
It's like, well, they are.

1202
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:28,560
So believe it.

1203
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:29,560
That's what you're fighting for.

1204
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:32,420
That's why I tell people, I give you a scenario.

1205
01:14:32,420 --> 01:14:34,520
You get told you go into training.

1206
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:35,520
That's a 40 hour week.

1207
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:38,600
Are you going to expect a 16 hour pay cut?

1208
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:41,160
No, because you know that your salary is your salary.

1209
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:42,420
It's the same thing.

1210
01:14:42,420 --> 01:14:46,960
It's just that they you know, they and I'm making they like there's some demon out there.

1211
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:53,840
But you know, the way that we have allowed our core load and profession to evolve and

1212
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:59,320
amplify, but yet our working conditions to stay the same, we found ourselves so woefully

1213
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:03,400
overworked and underpaid that all you're doing is putting it back to where it should have

1214
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:04,640
been a long time ago.

1215
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:05,640
We should have been on.

1216
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:08,040
And it is the irony as well.

1217
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:09,800
Everyone adores FDNY.

1218
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:13,240
They work I think it's 40 hours, 40 or 42.

1219
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:17,400
And it's like it used to be like a I think a 10 and 15 sorry, 10 to 14 or something like

1220
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:18,400
that.

1221
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:19,400
But most of them put them together.

1222
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:21,920
So I think it ends up being roughly a 24 72.

1223
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:27,760
So the very profession, the very department that we all admire and honor, you know, multiple

1224
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:32,120
times a year and go to seminars run by their firefighters.

1225
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:35,320
When does anyone say, well, why don't we do the same shift as them to?

1226
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:37,560
Oh, no, no, that would never happen.

1227
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:39,520
The site will choose one.

1228
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:42,040
Do you either admire this department or you don't?

1229
01:15:42,040 --> 01:15:46,160
But they, you know, they're doing purely the fire on the fire side.

1230
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:52,420
And we're doing fire and EMS and working 16 hours a week more than FDNY.

1231
01:15:52,420 --> 01:15:53,420
So this is the thing.

1232
01:15:53,420 --> 01:15:57,900
You start peeling the onion and you realize and it wasn't malicious.

1233
01:15:57,900 --> 01:16:06,160
It's just that because we didn't evolve, we are doing 20, 23 fire slash EMS with 1903

1234
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:07,160
work weeks.

1235
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:09,480
And we have to understand that we've got to evolve.

1236
01:16:09,480 --> 01:16:12,480
Right.

1237
01:16:12,480 --> 01:16:14,960
That was, you know, we use Boston as an example.

1238
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:15,960
Right.

1239
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:16,960
So Boston Fire has a D shift.

1240
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:17,960
Now they don't do a 24 72.

1241
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:23,480
They'll do, I want to say it's a 24 48 24 96.

1242
01:16:23,480 --> 01:16:28,880
But it's still the same 42 hour work week that we're going to as a 24 72.

1243
01:16:28,880 --> 01:16:34,720
You know, it's looking at these large departments all across the nation, you know, Seattle,

1244
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:36,800
that have the schedule already.

1245
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:44,440
And that was a difficulty for us was a lot of our membership was, well, give us an example

1246
01:16:44,440 --> 01:16:45,440
of who has the schedule.

1247
01:16:45,440 --> 01:16:50,320
Oh, well, Boston Fire, Seattle, you know, no, no, no.

1248
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:51,320
In Florida.

1249
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:52,320
Okay.

1250
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:53,320
Boyton Beach, Boca.

1251
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:54,320
Well, those are small departments.

1252
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:58,440
It's like, yes, that doesn't mean that it can't work here.

1253
01:16:58,440 --> 01:16:59,440
Yeah.

1254
01:16:59,440 --> 01:17:01,280
They had to hire less people than we're going to.

1255
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:04,080
But our department, we're not going to have to onboard that many.

1256
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:09,280
I want to say the numbers is somewhere in the 80s because of the six week Kelly Day,

1257
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:14,320
we had floating firefighters, floating drivers and floating captains to offset those vacancies

1258
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:19,360
cause because that was the county's way to help offset overtime, which obviously didn't

1259
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:20,360
work.

1260
01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:22,360
But you're going to be able to take those.

1261
01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:27,000
You're going to be able to take those floaters and move them over to D shift.

1262
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:30,280
And you're not going to have to hire that many people.

1263
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:36,560
I mean, 88 people, the moment that this opened up, there are 200, 300 applicants to come

1264
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:37,560
work for our department.

1265
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:39,620
I mean, you're going to fill those spots.

1266
01:17:39,620 --> 01:17:42,180
You could fill them tomorrow if you wanted to.

1267
01:17:42,180 --> 01:17:46,080
So it really, I mean, and I understand it, right?

1268
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:51,060
Because a lot of people were so used to getting stepped on, right?

1269
01:17:51,060 --> 01:17:56,080
By our departments, by the county or city that we work for, you know, no, they're never

1270
01:17:56,080 --> 01:17:57,080
going to take care of us.

1271
01:17:57,080 --> 01:17:58,080
They don't care about us.

1272
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:01,560
So if they're doing this, there has to be some reason, right?

1273
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:07,400
They have to have, there's some plot that they have to go to 24 72.

1274
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:10,680
It's like, or it's just simply for their end.

1275
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:14,640
It's financially motivated, which, you know, at the end of the day, that's their job, right?

1276
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:19,580
They have to worry about how they're spending taxpayer money.

1277
01:18:19,580 --> 01:18:25,160
So as if they're financially motivated, I could care less as long as we're getting this

1278
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:28,280
right on the schedule and they're going to take care of our members and you know, if

1279
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:35,640
this works, if this saves taxpayer money by reducing overtime and increasing retention,

1280
01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:37,780
it's also going to help us and make our lives better.

1281
01:18:37,780 --> 01:18:40,200
So it's a win for both sides.

1282
01:18:40,200 --> 01:18:45,240
But you know, getting out of the, well, we work 24 on 48 off.

1283
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:46,440
That's the fire service.

1284
01:18:46,440 --> 01:18:50,160
That's the tradition or a three week Kelly day was what we were hearing a lot of, you

1285
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:57,920
know, you have to change that mindset and, you know, kind of convince them to, Hey, this

1286
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:00,160
is, this is the right way to go.

1287
01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:01,160
You know?

1288
01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:02,160
Yeah.

1289
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:03,920
I've had conversations even with the, with the leather helmet.

1290
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:05,040
Oh, that's tradition.

1291
01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:09,640
And it's, you know, I know it's the symbol of the, you know, salty firefighter.

1292
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:10,760
I did it for 14 years.

1293
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:13,400
I loved it, but that's not tradition.

1294
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:15,040
That's a hat.

1295
01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:18,200
Tradition is camaraderie and courage and service.

1296
01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:21,600
Those are the traditions of the fire service, not the days that you come in and the days

1297
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:22,600
that you don't.

1298
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:23,920
And we get that very muddled.

1299
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:29,900
You know, if something is getting in the way of progress, then proudly put it on your office

1300
01:19:29,900 --> 01:19:34,320
wall and sits a piece of fire service history, but that's not tradition.

1301
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:38,640
Traditions are principles and philosophies, not items and shift schedules.

1302
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:39,960
Right.

1303
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:41,600
Absolutely.

1304
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:44,640
But it's hard to convince people otherwise.

1305
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:45,640
Right.

1306
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:50,680
I mean, it's just, I can't tell you how many conversations I had when we were going to

1307
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:58,200
these negotiations, you know, trying to just answer the, answer their questions and just

1308
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:02,760
like, no, listen, there, there isn't a boogeyman hiding in the closet, you know, with, with

1309
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:03,760
this deal.

1310
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:05,220
This is straightforward.

1311
01:20:05,220 --> 01:20:06,920
This is why it's going to be beneficial to you.

1312
01:20:06,920 --> 01:20:13,160
But it goes back to what I was saying earlier about, we have some bad-ass men and women

1313
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:19,640
that work for our agency that they don't want more time off than other places.

1314
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:21,880
They want to work the same schedule.

1315
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:25,480
They want to make close to as the same amount of money.

1316
01:20:25,480 --> 01:20:28,080
You know, they're in the, they weren't looking for much.

1317
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:36,800
They're just looking for a small improvement, you know, to be able to take this to them.

1318
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:41,880
Also knowing that this was a collaboration between the county and admin in our side,

1319
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:49,700
you know, the 24 72 actually was brought up by the county when it came to our negotiations.

1320
01:20:49,700 --> 01:20:50,700
We were going there.

1321
01:20:50,700 --> 01:20:54,160
Our members wanted a three week Kelly day and a race.

1322
01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:56,840
That was what we were pushing.

1323
01:20:56,840 --> 01:21:02,000
The county looked at it as if we gave you a three week Kelly day, it's going to do nothing

1324
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:07,000
for us in terms of overtime reduction and retention increase because we're not going

1325
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:12,320
to be able to pay you dollar for dollar what Hillsborough County, Tampa, St. Pete make.

1326
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:15,600
We're just not, we're going to continue to lose people to those departments.

1327
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:22,160
So this is what we think that we can do to make your lives better and also make our life

1328
01:21:22,160 --> 01:21:23,160
better.

1329
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:29,560
It, you know, I agree in it, but it was hard to convince people because like you're saying

1330
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:31,440
it it's tradition.

1331
01:21:31,440 --> 01:21:42,440
You know, if we want to go down that route, right, I hate to say it, but cancer is tradition.

1332
01:21:42,440 --> 01:21:47,840
Suicides tradition, cardiac issues are tradition, right?

1333
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:51,180
Maybe we should change.

1334
01:21:51,180 --> 01:21:52,180
That's a beautiful point.

1335
01:21:52,180 --> 01:21:53,880
It really is another, another area.

1336
01:21:53,880 --> 01:21:55,480
Well, a couple of things.

1337
01:21:55,480 --> 01:22:01,120
Firstly, some of the people that want to stay at work is for the wrong reasons.

1338
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:05,800
And I realized, you know, we talk about unhealthy COVID mechanisms, the alcohol and you know,

1339
01:22:05,800 --> 01:22:07,240
extramarital affairs and stuff.

1340
01:22:07,240 --> 01:22:08,240
Another one is work.

1341
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:09,520
Another one is overtime.

1342
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:15,640
We all know that overtime whore, but it makes no sense to not want to go home, not to want

1343
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,260
to go and do the things that you want to do, spend time with your family.

1344
01:22:18,260 --> 01:22:22,840
So some of those, I would argue maybe need to look in the mirror and go, why is it that

1345
01:22:22,840 --> 01:22:24,640
I'm wanting to work more?

1346
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:29,440
Am I avoiding something rather than genuinely just wanting to be at the station more?

1347
01:22:29,440 --> 01:22:33,280
The other thing is, you know, you hear a lot of chest beating and oh, it's for them.

1348
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:35,240
What we do is for them.

1349
01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:41,040
Well, firstly, them primarily should be your loved ones before the fire service.

1350
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:45,020
Like if you abandon your family because you're an Uber firefighter, then I think you've kind

1351
01:22:45,020 --> 01:22:46,940
of missed the point personally.

1352
01:22:46,940 --> 01:22:51,440
But secondly, if you're talking about performance, I've had so many guests from all the military

1353
01:22:51,440 --> 01:22:55,520
branches, the Navy SEALs, sporting, everything.

1354
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:59,800
None of your favorite athletes are sleep deprived.

1355
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:04,600
So if you actually want to eke out a higher level of performance as a firefighter, you

1356
01:23:04,600 --> 01:23:08,800
need more rest and recovery because I can promise you, if you've done any more than

1357
01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:13,300
a handful of years, you are only a fraction of the firefighter you could be.

1358
01:23:13,300 --> 01:23:14,780
It's just physiology.

1359
01:23:14,780 --> 01:23:15,960
You cannot be better.

1360
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:18,320
You cannot be as sharp mentally.

1361
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:22,360
You can't be as physically fit if you're not getting the rest and recovery.

1362
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:27,800
Otherwise our athletes would be chain smokers that never slept and drank coffee and bourbon

1363
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:28,800
all day.

1364
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:29,800
You know what I mean?

1365
01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:31,080
That's not the case.

1366
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:36,600
Even with that one, more time off will make you a better firefighter, make you a better

1367
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:40,640
paramedic, make you a better driver, engineer, whatever your role is.

1368
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:44,440
So that kind of trumps that as well.

1369
01:23:44,440 --> 01:23:49,360
You're buying into a myth that you're going to be so good if you work the same.

1370
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:50,480
You're not.

1371
01:23:50,480 --> 01:23:54,280
It's a miracle that any of us are even able to function with some of the work schedules

1372
01:23:54,280 --> 01:23:55,440
that are out there.

1373
01:23:55,440 --> 01:23:56,720
So that was beat my other things.

1374
01:23:56,720 --> 01:24:01,120
If it's truly for them, firstly, them should be your family, which is you advocating for

1375
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:02,120
more time off.

1376
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:06,440
Secondly, if you're talking about your community, rest and recovery is imperative to be the

1377
01:24:06,440 --> 01:24:11,840
tactical athlete and the critical thinker that you need to be in uniform.

1378
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:13,840
Absolutely.

1379
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:14,840
It's for them.

1380
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:17,440
So let's make sure that we're not making mistakes at three o'clock in the morning on the back

1381
01:24:17,440 --> 01:24:23,200
end of a 48 when it's truly life or death in the back of that rescue.

1382
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:24,200
It is for them.

1383
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:27,000
But like you said, family has to come first.

1384
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:33,840
If your home life is not right, your work life probably isn't going to be either.

1385
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:35,400
I went through divorce.

1386
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:37,440
I'm sure, what is it?

1387
01:24:37,440 --> 01:24:40,520
Over 50% of firefighters get divorced.

1388
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:41,520
Why is that?

1389
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:45,720
You can't tell me that our work schedule doesn't contribute to it, that our work life doesn't

1390
01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:46,720
contribute to it.

1391
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:48,200
It absolutely does.

1392
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:53,320
Being able to spend more time at home, making sure that home life is healthy, our minds

1393
01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:56,760
are healthy, physically we're healthy.

1394
01:24:56,760 --> 01:25:01,240
This all comes back to what we've been talking about is our work schedule, overworked and

1395
01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:02,240
underpaid.

1396
01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:04,200
It causes a lot of stress.

1397
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:06,880
Now you're working two, three other jobs.

1398
01:25:06,880 --> 01:25:13,680
I was just up in Canada, in Ottawa for a Health Canada Summit in October.

1399
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:16,840
There was a gentleman there that put on a presentation about obesity in the fire service.

1400
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:22,360
They had a little roundtable discussion after and I stood up like, I got something to say.

1401
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:26,420
We say 66% of firefighters are obese in the fire service.

1402
01:25:26,420 --> 01:25:28,640
How many of them work a second and third job?

1403
01:25:28,640 --> 01:25:31,120
I guarantee it's higher.

1404
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:35,160
You want healthier and more fit firefighters?

1405
01:25:35,160 --> 01:25:40,280
You take care of them financially, physically and mentally.

1406
01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:41,280
You pay them right.

1407
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:42,920
You give them more time off.

1408
01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:45,760
You're going to have a healthier firefighter.

1409
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:50,960
It's just going to happen.

1410
01:25:50,960 --> 01:25:51,960
I don't know.

1411
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:53,040
It is so important.

1412
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:54,560
I can't emphasize it.

1413
01:25:54,560 --> 01:25:58,080
I can't wait for 2026 to come.

1414
01:25:58,080 --> 01:26:02,240
I have a countdown on my phone for when this schedule starts.

1415
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:04,520
It's just, I don't know.

1416
01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:09,360
It's going to be a game changer for my life, for my family, for everyone in our department,

1417
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:11,720
their family.

1418
01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:12,720
I'm excited.

1419
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:13,720
I really am.

1420
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:15,560
It's going to be life changing.

1421
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:19,720
That makes me smile the fact that you said that because I've talked about this before.

1422
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:23,560
It breaks my heart when I see a firefighter with a countdown on his app.

1423
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:29,320
I'm not talking about months and weeks, but years until they retire.

1424
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:30,320
You know what I mean?

1425
01:26:30,320 --> 01:26:34,820
How amazing that you have a countdown to getting to a work week that will actually give you

1426
01:26:34,820 --> 01:26:36,720
more rest and recovery and time with your family.

1427
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:39,240
I think that's a countdown that's worthy.

1428
01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:42,640
Yes, it absolutely is.

1429
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:44,720
I don't know.

1430
01:26:44,720 --> 01:26:45,720
I'm excited.

1431
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:52,880
I really want, I'm more excited too to see the response.

1432
01:26:52,880 --> 01:27:03,480
For once we start and it works to see all these other agencies start going that route.

1433
01:27:03,480 --> 01:27:09,800
It's going to be awesome to be a part of, we're going to be the trendsetter for this

1434
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:13,360
big agency to do this.

1435
01:27:13,360 --> 01:27:18,440
Obviously Boyan and Boca, they did it before us.

1436
01:27:18,440 --> 01:27:25,760
For an agency of our size to transition, especially from a six week Kelly Day to a 2472, it's

1437
01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:29,640
going to be incredible to see all the other departments and locals react.

1438
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:33,440
Now, did you say Seattle went to 2472 as well?

1439
01:27:33,440 --> 01:27:34,440
Yes.

1440
01:27:34,440 --> 01:27:35,440
Brilliant.

1441
01:27:35,440 --> 01:27:41,360
I hear a lot from the West Coast is, oh, I can't wait, we're going to a 4896 and I'm

1442
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:43,560
just like, oh my God.

1443
01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:46,960
I mean, that's just out of the frying pan into the fire.

1444
01:27:46,960 --> 01:27:52,080
I always talk about this, we always talk about the shifts like a Rubik's cube and we spin

1445
01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:53,560
the cube and change the colors.

1446
01:27:53,560 --> 01:27:57,160
It's like, when are we going to talk about making the cube smaller?

1447
01:27:57,160 --> 01:28:02,120
To me, the 4896 is just spinning colors and arguably making it worse because you look

1448
01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:07,120
at the damage of 24 without sleep, a 48 is insanity.

1449
01:28:07,120 --> 01:28:12,360
An Anaheim where I used to work, much as I love them, I think they moved their allowance

1450
01:28:12,360 --> 01:28:15,680
from mandatory to 120 hours straight.

1451
01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:18,920
I mean, just fucking insane.

1452
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:19,920
That really makes me smile.

1453
01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:27,320
The one on the West Coast departments are starting to get it too.

1454
01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:31,320
I can't believe they allow someone to work 120 hours in a row.

1455
01:28:31,320 --> 01:28:33,240
That's mind blowing.

1456
01:28:33,240 --> 01:28:37,640
Our department, at least the best part about when I got hired is they couldn't hit you

1457
01:28:37,640 --> 01:28:40,320
for more than a 24.

1458
01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:46,040
You could not work more than 48 hours in a row without a 12 hour rest period in between.

1459
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:52,120
I know there are departments that allow 72 hours straight.

1460
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:53,120
That's insane.

1461
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:54,560
We're killing ourselves.

1462
01:28:54,560 --> 01:29:00,240
Yeah, I'm sure the money's nice, but you're killing yourself working that kind of schedule,

1463
01:29:00,240 --> 01:29:01,440
working that amount of hours.

1464
01:29:01,440 --> 01:29:02,440
You're always on.

1465
01:29:02,440 --> 01:29:07,080
I don't know about you, how you were when you were at work, but even when I'm at a station

1466
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:11,440
that is slower, high likelihood you're going to sleep all night.

1467
01:29:11,440 --> 01:29:15,240
I'm still up to one o'clock, two o'clock in the morning.

1468
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:19,940
It's hard to shut your brain off when you're at work, no matter if you're running calls

1469
01:29:19,940 --> 01:29:21,940
or not.

1470
01:29:21,940 --> 01:29:25,560
Even if you are getting to sleep, what's the quality of it?

1471
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:29,480
I promise I sleep a lot better in my bed at home than I do at the bed at work.

1472
01:29:29,480 --> 01:29:34,520
So the 48.96 is, I agree with you 100%.

1473
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:39,200
I don't think that that should not be an answer at all.

1474
01:29:39,200 --> 01:29:42,000
I think it's only going to make the problems worse.

1475
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:48,840
And I don't know, 24 72.

1476
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:49,840
That's the way to go.

1477
01:29:49,840 --> 01:29:50,840
Yeah.

1478
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:52,440
And again, that's what I was telling Pat Kenny yesterday.

1479
01:29:52,440 --> 01:29:59,080
I think it was, it boils down to why do you think you're not worthy to work a 40 hour

1480
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:00,320
for 42?

1481
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:05,480
Why is it so out the question that you can't even go to the table and present that?

1482
01:30:05,480 --> 01:30:07,960
And you know, I would, there's no, there's no answer.

1483
01:30:07,960 --> 01:30:11,720
Why should the person that's going to wake from a dead sleep at three in the morning

1484
01:30:11,720 --> 01:30:17,360
jump in the back of a tiller, drive to a fire, throw a ladder, make entry, go search for

1485
01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:21,440
a kid and then maybe even have to come out and do a pediatric algorithm after that, that

1486
01:30:21,440 --> 01:30:25,840
you're fine with them working 56, but the person pushing papers works 40.

1487
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:30,720
Why is it so hard for you to understand that you fucking deserve to have the work we these

1488
01:30:30,720 --> 01:30:36,600
people have arguably even less, but at least let's get it back to what they were.

1489
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:41,240
I think, I think a lot of that boils down to, you know, it's, it's a blue collar job.

1490
01:30:41,240 --> 01:30:43,800
And I think that has a lot to do with it.

1491
01:30:43,800 --> 01:30:51,200
That the men and women that are in the fire service, all they know is work, right?

1492
01:30:51,200 --> 01:30:55,700
That's that we're hardworking and hard headed.

1493
01:30:55,700 --> 01:31:02,880
So anything that is going to kind of take away from what we're proud of, you know, our

1494
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:10,280
job, our careers taken away from that, I think is why there is so much fight about working

1495
01:31:10,280 --> 01:31:11,280
less.

1496
01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:12,280
I really do.

1497
01:31:12,280 --> 01:31:14,800
And I think that also might be a problem, right?

1498
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:19,840
I think I identify as Dixon.

1499
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:22,560
I don't identify as a firefighter.

1500
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:23,560
Firefighting is my career.

1501
01:31:23,560 --> 01:31:25,240
I'm very passionate about it.

1502
01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:30,400
I'm very passionate about the union side and making lives for our members better.

1503
01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:31,880
But that is not who I am.

1504
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:36,120
And I think that's another big problem in the fire services.

1505
01:31:36,120 --> 01:31:40,400
Our men and women identify as their job.

1506
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:42,800
The job could care less.

1507
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:45,320
It really is the, your department could care less about you.

1508
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:49,160
You know, you need to take care of you, do what's the best interest for you and your

1509
01:31:49,160 --> 01:31:53,640
family and working less and making the same amount of money.

1510
01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:59,600
Nobody can tell me that that is a bad thing or prove that it's a bad thing.

1511
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:00,600
Absolutely.

1512
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:04,600
Well, I mean, even when we talk about obesity, we talk about cancer, which I want to get

1513
01:32:04,600 --> 01:32:07,320
into quickly before we wrap up.

1514
01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:11,280
You know, I've been to conferences and like, oh, we're going to talk about decon and we're

1515
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:12,760
going to talk about PFAS.

1516
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:17,680
There's never a conversation about sleep deprivation, which as you touched on a minute ago has been

1517
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:22,320
the World Health Organization and other governing bodies have identified it as a carcinogen for

1518
01:32:22,320 --> 01:32:23,320
humans.

1519
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:26,720
And then when you talk about the mental health conversation, oh, it's what Dixon saw, you

1520
01:32:26,720 --> 01:32:31,040
know, well, no one's ever talking about firstly, your formative years.

1521
01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:35,600
And in your case, the head trauma from playing football, those are also going to factor in,

1522
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:40,240
but the sleep deprivation too, you know, and again, that doesn't get so changing these

1523
01:32:40,240 --> 01:32:45,940
shifts will absolutely hands down, categorically move the needle on the mental health issues

1524
01:32:45,940 --> 01:32:48,080
we have on the diseases that we have.

1525
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:52,920
And I just learned a guy I know locally here has got stage four cancer, a young guy.

1526
01:32:52,920 --> 01:32:54,600
So it's all the things.

1527
01:32:54,600 --> 01:32:56,880
And I always tell people, you know, we don't die of one thing.

1528
01:32:56,880 --> 01:32:58,320
We die of everything.

1529
01:32:58,320 --> 01:33:00,560
You know, it's just whatever's going to get you first.

1530
01:33:00,560 --> 01:33:05,840
And there's my last department, really, Creek, they hardly ever run fires.

1531
01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:06,840
It's Disney.

1532
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:07,840
They're protecting Disney.

1533
01:33:07,840 --> 01:33:11,380
So it's so well sprinkled and kudos to the prevention side for that.

1534
01:33:11,380 --> 01:33:13,640
But they're dropping like flies too.

1535
01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:15,840
They don't see carcinogens very much.

1536
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:17,120
They had an asbestos fire once.

1537
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:21,360
I know it wasn't very nice for some of the older guys, but, but they run their ass off.

1538
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:23,240
They run on all day and they run all night.

1539
01:33:23,240 --> 01:33:25,380
So again, it's the sleep deprivation.

1540
01:33:25,380 --> 01:33:27,700
It's not the carcinogens in that case.

1541
01:33:27,700 --> 01:33:33,560
So this is, you know, why the whole conversation, it will fix everything by putting it back.

1542
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:39,680
But while we're on the cancer topic, I had the two guys from Sweden, the healthy firefighter

1543
01:33:39,680 --> 01:33:43,120
guys on the show quite a long time ago now.

1544
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:47,360
And it was awesome hearing the kind of origin of the kind of clique clean cab philosophy

1545
01:33:47,360 --> 01:33:51,880
that got again, some people pushing against, you know, clean cabs, stop grabs, I think

1546
01:33:51,880 --> 01:33:55,040
is again, a fucking ridiculous thing to say.

1547
01:33:55,040 --> 01:33:59,000
Because if you're leaping off a fire engine right into the burning building, maybe you're

1548
01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:05,080
missing some steps, but you know, it's not making it into a, you know, a surgery and

1549
01:34:05,080 --> 01:34:06,240
operating table.

1550
01:34:06,240 --> 01:34:10,000
It's just understanding that some of the gear that we wore that's off gassing might not

1551
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:12,800
be good to lie against and inhale.

1552
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:17,000
So talk to me about the neat decon side in Pasco and some of the progressive stuff you've

1553
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:18,520
been doing there.

1554
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:26,600
Yeah, so in 2020, we actually started a decon program in Pasco County.

1555
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:35,120
So our decon program today, we have two trucks that are fully staffed 24 hours, 365 days

1556
01:34:35,120 --> 01:34:39,560
a year with two firefighters on each truck.

1557
01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:42,220
One covers the west side of the county, one covers the east side of the county.

1558
01:34:42,220 --> 01:34:45,880
Those trucks are basically like rolling closets, right?

1559
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:49,640
And the back of them, one of them is just like, it's just a box truck.

1560
01:34:49,640 --> 01:34:56,900
The other one is like a 38 foot E1 that has washers and everything on it.

1561
01:34:56,900 --> 01:35:03,800
So on every confirmed structure fire, either decon one or decon two is dispatched on that

1562
01:35:03,800 --> 01:35:05,080
call.

1563
01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:09,480
So when you come out of that fire, you have a fresh set of gear sitting there waiting

1564
01:35:09,480 --> 01:35:11,740
for you.

1565
01:35:11,740 --> 01:35:17,980
You doff all your gears, first you get sprayed down, so we get 99% of those carcinogens off

1566
01:35:17,980 --> 01:35:22,920
at the first engine, sets up a little green line water hose, sprays them down.

1567
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:30,080
You go over to the decon truck, you get brand new set of gear, brand new Nomex wipes to

1568
01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:32,600
wipe down your head, neck areas.

1569
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:38,040
And the decon truck takes that gear back to their station, they wash it, they have it

1570
01:35:38,040 --> 01:35:42,960
back to you within a shift or two.

1571
01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:47,400
It was very difficult in the beginning to kind of get people to buy in, right?

1572
01:35:47,400 --> 01:35:52,600
Because everyone knows like our gear is like our skin, you know, it's what's protecting

1573
01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:55,160
us when we're inside that structure.

1574
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:59,960
A lot of people don't want others touching their gear.

1575
01:35:59,960 --> 01:36:01,600
I'm responsible for it.

1576
01:36:01,600 --> 01:36:04,420
That's what's going to protect me and save me.

1577
01:36:04,420 --> 01:36:09,200
I don't want anybody messing with that.

1578
01:36:09,200 --> 01:36:13,760
So it was very hard in the beginning stages to kind of get that buy in.

1579
01:36:13,760 --> 01:36:19,460
We had a member of our department, Jason Tucker, who passed away in April of this past year

1580
01:36:19,460 --> 01:36:24,100
from glioblastoma.

1581
01:36:24,100 --> 01:36:27,820
One of our founding members of our special operations program, one of the most senior

1582
01:36:27,820 --> 01:36:33,120
firefighters in our department, I mean, Jason was a firefighter's firefighter.

1583
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:37,360
When he was going through that treatment, he was the biggest supporter of the decon

1584
01:36:37,360 --> 01:36:40,260
program.

1585
01:36:40,260 --> 01:36:49,400
What he did in that year that he was on light duty and fighting that cancer was instrumental

1586
01:36:49,400 --> 01:36:55,200
in the success, you know, being able to see this guy, the senior man in our department

1587
01:36:55,200 --> 01:36:57,440
fighting this terrible disease.

1588
01:36:57,440 --> 01:37:02,860
And he's going around telling you like, you have to decon, you have to buy into this,

1589
01:37:02,860 --> 01:37:07,920
you have to change your gear, the dirty helmet, the dirty gear, that's not a badge of honor,

1590
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:08,920
it's stupidity.

1591
01:37:08,920 --> 01:37:14,120
And then he was actually at our training center on light duty and every new hire class that

1592
01:37:14,120 --> 01:37:18,400
come in, he would have an hour with them and just talk to them about his journey and how

1593
01:37:18,400 --> 01:37:23,160
important it is to get clean gear and make sure that you're taking care of yourself.

1594
01:37:23,160 --> 01:37:31,640
And the numbers from 2020 to today of participation, it's a 180.

1595
01:37:31,640 --> 01:37:36,780
You go on a fire, everybody that makes entry in that fire, they're required by policy now

1596
01:37:36,780 --> 01:37:39,320
to come out and swap their gear.

1597
01:37:39,320 --> 01:37:43,840
You know, it's something, once again, never thought that Pasco County would have something

1598
01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:52,940
like this because it is a large, you know, financial like burden on our department between

1599
01:37:52,940 --> 01:37:56,800
all the gear they have to buy the staffing of these trucks, obviously buying the trucks

1600
01:37:56,800 --> 01:38:01,840
itself, I mean, it's a huge investment that the county made into us.

1601
01:38:01,840 --> 01:38:06,920
And you know, the other side of it is right now we have fire decks gear, which is the

1602
01:38:06,920 --> 01:38:11,600
has the lowest number amount of PFAS on the market when it comes to fire, you know, to

1603
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:13,280
structural firefighting gear.

1604
01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:23,280
So trying to prevent or trying to reduce our exposures in the schedule and get us out of

1605
01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:31,600
that dirty gear and into clean gear as soon as you walk out that structure, it's two sides,

1606
01:38:31,600 --> 01:38:36,640
you know, to combating this cancer issue that is in the fire service.

1607
01:38:36,640 --> 01:38:39,720
I mean, I think it's just such an important conversation.

1608
01:38:39,720 --> 01:38:41,040
And again, it's about ego.

1609
01:38:41,040 --> 01:38:44,440
And like I've said this a lot, and I'm sure I piss people off and I really don't fucking

1610
01:38:44,440 --> 01:38:49,480
care if you're more concerned about how you look and you want that filthy helmet.

1611
01:38:49,480 --> 01:38:53,220
I mean, again, the leather, we all know that leather is completely porous.

1612
01:38:53,220 --> 01:38:56,200
And it absorbs you cannot decontaminate a leather helmet.

1613
01:38:56,200 --> 01:38:58,680
You can't decontaminate a leather radio strap.

1614
01:38:58,680 --> 01:39:01,320
So if all you're going to do is EMS, then maybe okay.

1615
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:06,280
But I know many, many times I had, you know, a strap was in a fire and then, you know,

1616
01:39:06,280 --> 01:39:09,440
you wipe it down with a wipe and now you're on the EMS call and it's right against your

1617
01:39:09,440 --> 01:39:10,600
throat.

1618
01:39:10,600 --> 01:39:11,600
But it's all in there.

1619
01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:12,800
You haven't got rid of anything.

1620
01:39:12,800 --> 01:39:17,440
So a real kind of eye opener for me was when I worked for Anaheim being a tillerman, you

1621
01:39:17,440 --> 01:39:19,320
can't have your pack in the doghouse.

1622
01:39:19,320 --> 01:39:21,880
It's got to be in a compartment beneath you.

1623
01:39:21,880 --> 01:39:25,940
So you gear up and they and kudos Anaheim, we had two sets of gear.

1624
01:39:25,940 --> 01:39:27,560
So you were able to swap.

1625
01:39:27,560 --> 01:39:32,120
It wasn't a rig, but you go back to the station, you switch out, you shower up, switch out

1626
01:39:32,120 --> 01:39:35,440
and then you bag it up and you send it off.

1627
01:39:35,440 --> 01:39:42,160
But the ability to climb down and literally it takes eight seconds to pull a pack out

1628
01:39:42,160 --> 01:39:44,240
of a compartment and throw it on your back.

1629
01:39:44,240 --> 01:39:48,040
Meantime, like me, if you're just a firefighter, you're listening to your LT or your captain

1630
01:39:48,040 --> 01:39:50,160
tell you what they want you to do.

1631
01:39:50,160 --> 01:39:53,120
If you're an officer, you're looking at the structure, you're making decisions.

1632
01:39:53,120 --> 01:39:57,760
If you're an engineer, you're probably not packing up yet anyway, but you have time to

1633
01:39:57,760 --> 01:40:00,760
put this gear on before you go in.

1634
01:40:00,760 --> 01:40:06,000
So I am totally for the packs not being in the rig too, because they are absorbing everything.

1635
01:40:06,000 --> 01:40:07,400
They're off gassing.

1636
01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:08,880
So now you've got clean gear.

1637
01:40:08,880 --> 01:40:13,760
You've got a pack in a different compartment that takes a moment to throw on.

1638
01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:17,520
And now you can have a normal seat where the pack doesn't dig in your back, you know, and

1639
01:40:17,520 --> 01:40:19,160
you can actually buckle in properly.

1640
01:40:19,160 --> 01:40:21,480
So you're wearing your seatbelt all the way to the fire.

1641
01:40:21,480 --> 01:40:23,600
It's safe on so many different levels.

1642
01:40:23,600 --> 01:40:25,640
And it's just about ego.

1643
01:40:25,640 --> 01:40:29,320
If you want to come off that rig, you know, with your leather helmet and your fucking

1644
01:40:29,320 --> 01:40:33,960
pack still smoking from the last fire because you want to make sure the Orlando Sentinel

1645
01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:38,200
takes a picture of your fucking heroic ass, then is that for them?

1646
01:40:38,200 --> 01:40:39,940
No, it's for you.

1647
01:40:39,940 --> 01:40:41,360
It's narcissism.

1648
01:40:41,360 --> 01:40:46,240
So again, we have to put our egos away and our fucking fairy tales and go.

1649
01:40:46,240 --> 01:40:49,040
How many people have we lost to cancer?

1650
01:40:49,040 --> 01:40:55,560
How would they feel in their graves that we're doing the same fucking thing that killed them?

1651
01:40:55,560 --> 01:41:00,200
We owe it to them and their memories, whether we've lost them to, you know, the heart issues

1652
01:41:00,200 --> 01:41:06,080
or cancer or the mental health side to advocate for change so that when we think of their

1653
01:41:06,080 --> 01:41:10,320
name, when you guys think of Jason, you know that he fought for change.

1654
01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:13,360
So other people wouldn't have to endure what he did.

1655
01:41:13,360 --> 01:41:15,920
And that is a fucking heroic firefighter right there.

1656
01:41:15,920 --> 01:41:21,480
And I hope a lot of people listening can listen to his example and change the way they think.

1657
01:41:21,480 --> 01:41:22,480
Absolutely.

1658
01:41:22,480 --> 01:41:26,120
And, you know, it takes.

1659
01:41:26,120 --> 01:41:29,040
It takes a senior man.

1660
01:41:29,040 --> 01:41:31,440
I think to create change, right?

1661
01:41:31,440 --> 01:41:36,160
Like you have to have somebody that's well respected to get by in.

1662
01:41:36,160 --> 01:41:42,080
And, you know, firefighters were inherently rule breakers.

1663
01:41:42,080 --> 01:41:48,740
So no policy that your department puts out is probably going to change anything.

1664
01:41:48,740 --> 01:41:54,560
You know, it needs to be our administration and union leadership work together to make

1665
01:41:54,560 --> 01:42:00,400
sure that this DECOM program was a success, to make sure that people bought in, you know,

1666
01:42:00,400 --> 01:42:06,080
having Jason going around and talking about this program is what caused people to buy

1667
01:42:06,080 --> 01:42:07,080
in.

1668
01:42:07,080 --> 01:42:13,320
And I think that's a lesson that not only firefighters can learn, but also administration

1669
01:42:13,320 --> 01:42:14,480
can learn.

1670
01:42:14,480 --> 01:42:17,960
Like ruling with an iron fist gets nothing done.

1671
01:42:17,960 --> 01:42:19,880
It just gets people written up.

1672
01:42:19,880 --> 01:42:20,880
That's it.

1673
01:42:20,880 --> 01:42:24,880
But if you actually want change, if you want people, their lives to improve, their health

1674
01:42:24,880 --> 01:42:27,840
to improve, it's a collaborative effort.

1675
01:42:27,840 --> 01:42:32,520
It is both sides working together to make your department, to make your agency a better

1676
01:42:32,520 --> 01:42:33,880
place to work.

1677
01:42:33,880 --> 01:42:40,480
That is the ultimate goal that that should be the ultimate goal.

1678
01:42:40,480 --> 01:42:41,480
Absolutely.

1679
01:42:41,480 --> 01:42:45,000
Well, I want to be mindful of your time before we wrap up.

1680
01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:49,720
Are there any other areas that you want to make sure that we, you know, impart to the

1681
01:42:49,720 --> 01:42:51,800
audience before I let you go?

1682
01:42:51,800 --> 01:42:59,480
No, I mean, I think I think we hit most of the stuff that I had written down.

1683
01:42:59,480 --> 01:43:05,380
So just I want to see everyone.

1684
01:43:05,380 --> 01:43:07,040
Everyone needs to get to that 24 72.

1685
01:43:07,040 --> 01:43:09,280
I don't care how it has to happen.

1686
01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:10,280
You have to get there.

1687
01:43:10,280 --> 01:43:14,320
You have to do what's best for your people and just get it done.

1688
01:43:14,320 --> 01:43:15,320
Absolutely.

1689
01:43:15,320 --> 01:43:19,480
Well, mate, I want to be again, I want to thank you so much for not just coming on,

1690
01:43:19,480 --> 01:43:24,000
but I mean, as you said, you had preparation, but most importantly, to everyone that was

1691
01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:28,280
involved in this proactive movement that you've seen in your department, I think, you know,

1692
01:43:28,280 --> 01:43:33,000
from the council members all the way through to the the firefighters, it's admirable, you

1693
01:43:33,000 --> 01:43:36,840
know, and obviously not everyone was in, but there was as much there was enough buy in

1694
01:43:36,840 --> 01:43:40,400
that they were able to kind of move it forward and hopefully educate the others that were

1695
01:43:40,400 --> 01:43:43,640
resisting and then they started coming on board to.

1696
01:43:43,640 --> 01:43:46,240
But you you're at the tip of the spear.

1697
01:43:46,240 --> 01:43:48,720
You are the beginning of this paradigm shift.

1698
01:43:48,720 --> 01:43:53,020
And I'm so excited firstly for you, because I know this will be life changing for you

1699
01:43:53,020 --> 01:43:54,600
and your families.

1700
01:43:54,600 --> 01:43:58,360
And it's going to help in every every area, it's going to drive people back into your

1701
01:43:58,360 --> 01:43:59,360
department.

1702
01:43:59,360 --> 01:44:03,660
It's going to provide a much higher level of service to your people, your community,

1703
01:44:03,660 --> 01:44:07,720
but also your your leading the charge now for the American Fire Service.

1704
01:44:07,720 --> 01:44:13,660
And you know, now that this wave has started to take up some momentum, I hope that it does

1705
01:44:13,660 --> 01:44:18,120
sweep across the country, because as I mentioned earlier, I think that every man and woman

1706
01:44:18,120 --> 01:44:24,120
in uniform doing the job that I adore deserves the environment that allows them to thrive,

1707
01:44:24,120 --> 01:44:26,680
have a healthy career and then a healthy retirement.

1708
01:44:26,680 --> 01:44:30,440
So I want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time today and coming on

1709
01:44:30,440 --> 01:44:32,160
the Behind the Shield podcast.

1710
01:44:32,160 --> 01:44:36,200
Thank you very much for having me as a great conversation.

1711
01:44:36,200 --> 01:44:41,400
And for anybody out there listening that needs or wants any information on the 24 72, you

1712
01:44:41,400 --> 01:44:43,800
know, I'm always available.

1713
01:44:43,800 --> 01:44:45,520
And where can people I've didn't even ask you that.

1714
01:44:45,520 --> 01:44:47,220
Where can people find you?

1715
01:44:47,220 --> 01:44:48,840
So I'm on Instagram.

1716
01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:55,960
PhilipsDixon underscore is my handle or you can send me an email at D P H I L L I P S

1717
01:44:55,960 --> 01:45:20,560
at IAFF local 44 20 dot org.