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I'm extremely excited to announce a brand new sponsor for the Behind the Shield podcast

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that is Transcend.

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Now for many of you listening, you are probably working the same brutal shifts that I did

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for 14 years.

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Suffering from sleep deprivation, body composition challenges, mental health challenges, libido,

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hair loss, etc.

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Now when it comes to the world of hormone replacement and peptide therapy, what I have

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seen is a shift from doctors telling us that we were within normal limits, which was definitely

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incorrect all the way to the other way now where men's clinics are popping up left, right

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and center.

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So I myself wanted to find a reputable company that would do an analysis of my physiology

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and then offer supplementations without ramming, for example, hormone replacement therapy down

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my throat.

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Now I came across Transcend because they have an altruistic arm and they were a big reason

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why the 7X project I was a part of was able to proceed because of their generous donations.

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They also have the Transcend foundations where they are actually putting military and first

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responders through some of their therapies at no cost to the individual.

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So my own personal journey so far filled in the online form, went to Quest, got blood

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drawn and a few days later I'm talking to one of their wellness professionals as they

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guide me through my results and the supplementation that they suggest.

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In my case specifically, because I transitioned out the fire service five years ago and been

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very diligent with my health, my testosterone was actually in a good place.

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So I went down the peptide route and some other supplements to try and maximize my physiology

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knowing full well the damage that 14 years of shift work has done.

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Now I also want to underline because I think this is very important that each of the therapies

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they offer, they will talk about the pros and cons.

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So for example, a lot of first responders in shift work, our testosterone will be low,

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but sometimes nutrition, exercise and sleep can offset that on its own.

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So this company is not going to try and push you down a path, especially if it's one that

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you can't come back from.

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So whether it's libido, brain fog, inflammation, gut health, performance, sleep, this is definitely

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one of the most powerful tools in the toolbox.

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So to learn more, go to transcendcompany.com or listen to episode 808 of the Behind the

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Shield podcast with founder Ernie Colling.

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This episode is sponsored by New Calm.

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And as many of you know, I only bring sponsors onto this show whose products I truly swear

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by.

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Now we are an overworked and under slept population, especially those of us that wear uniform for

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a living and trying to reclaim some of the lost rest and recovery is imperative.

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Now the application of this product is as simple as putting on headphones and a sleep

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mask.

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As you listen to music on each of the programs, there is neuroacoustic software beneath that

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is tapping into the actual frequencies of your brain, whether to up-regulate your nervous

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system or down-regulate.

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Now for most of us that come off shift, we are A, exhausted and B, do not want to bring

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what we've had to see and do back home to our loved ones.

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So one powerful application is using the program Powernap, a 20 minute session that will not

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only feel like you've had two hours of sleep, but also down-regulate from a hypervigilant

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state back into the role of mother or father, husband or wife.

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Now there are so many other applications and benefits from this software.

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So I urge you to go and listen to episode 806 with CEO Jim Poole, then download New

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Calm N-U-C-A-L-M from your app store and sign up for the seven day free trial.

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Not only will you have an understanding of the origin story and the four decades this

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science has spanned, but also see for yourself the incredible health impact of this life-changing

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software.

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And you can find even more information on newcalm.com.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

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the show former law enforcement officer, veteran firefighter and the man behind Firefighters

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for Freedom, John Knox.

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Now this is an incredibly important conversation because as I record this in January 2024,

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first responders are still being terminated over vaccine mandates during COVID.

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So as you will hear, we discuss a host of topics from John's journey into law enforcement,

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his unique and powerful 9-11 experience, entering the fire service, the arson unit, working

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in dispatch, vaccine mandates and much more.

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Now before we get to this incredibly important conversation, as I say every week, please

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just take a moment, go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show,

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leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five-star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of almost 900 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

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I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you, John Knox.

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Enjoy.

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All right.

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Well, John, I want to start by saying thank you so much for coming on the behind the

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show podcast and reason why I say that is we just came across each other after you were

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terminated by LAFD, you know, about four or five weeks ago now.

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And this is something that I've brought to the forefront many, many times during the

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pandemic and after which is the middle ground of health, but also I'm going to start that

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intro again.

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I just fucked that up completely.

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Bear with me one more.

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I was going off on a fucking tangent.

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Let me just welcome you to the show.

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Well, John, I want to start by saying thank you so much for taking the time and coming

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on the behind the shield podcast today.

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Thanks for having me.

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So I came across you.

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I do follow firefighters for freedom.

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I had one of my friends, Steve Davis from Orange County that was terminated.

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Well, that was probably a year and a half ago now, two years.

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And I went right in the heart of all this.

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And we did an interview with him and Jason Wheat, another friend of mine.

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And this is an issue I think that as I know a lot of you talk about, most of the country

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doesn't have to deal with it because common sense prevailed.

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But we're having a conversation where in this case that didn't happen.

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So I want to start at the very, very beginning.

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I don't want this whole conversation to be about that one moment in time.

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So I'd love to actually kind of lead you through your timeline.

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And then obviously when we get to 2020, we'll start talking about that specific event.

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So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what

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your parents did, how many siblings.

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So I was born in Los Angeles, California and middle-class family.

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My dad was LAPD for 32 years.

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And that's what I grew up really wanting to do was be law enforcement.

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That's all I ever knew.

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And then my mom, she worked for mortgage industry and stuff like that.

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So parents got divorced when I was young, probably fifth grade maybe.

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I moved to Europe for a couple of years, got to experience life in another country, a couple

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of countries over there.

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And then came back to the States, went to high school and just started living life.

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After I got out of high school, I attempted to get on LAPD three times.

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Everybody who's watching this probably understands the process for oral interviews and so on

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and so forth.

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And that was back in the mid-80s.

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And 97%, I think 97, 98% is what I got on my oral scores every time.

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But back then you couldn't get on unless you scored 100% and had military experience because

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affirmative action was the big keyword and thing going back then.

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So that didn't happen.

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Fast forward, I started doing my own businesses.

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And then I got involved with the sheriff's department and worked for them for 11 years.

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I did search and rescue, was on a helicopter, did just all kinds of stuff through that.

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And then during that time, I had been married, went through a divorce and I had a buddy that

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I went to high school with and I had become a paramedic as well while I was in the sheriff's

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department.

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So then I had a buddy reach out to me and he's like, man, you've got a great resume.

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Did you ever think about going to the fire department?

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I was like, no.

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So one thing led to another.

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I applied to two departments, one up in the Bay Area, Hayward, and got a call for that

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and turned it down because I decided I didn't want to live in the Bay, the San Francisco

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Bay, which turns out that's probably a good thing seeing what they've been going through

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the past couple of years as well.

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And then I got hired by LA City.

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I had applied originally as a firefighter and then they were in dire needs in 2000 for paramedics,

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short-staffed.

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I mean, it's like that everywhere.

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It's never changed really.

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And so I got hired on as a single function paramedic initially.

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Got hired on, worked for the city, for LAFD for I think it was probably two and a half

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years.

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I was supposed to be cross-trained in nine months, but the way the city works, nothing

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ever goes on time.

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So then I worked cross-trained, dual function firefighter paramedic.

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And from that point, worked as a hazmat task force.

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I worked arson, counterterrorism.

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I did stuff with the tractor units.

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What else?

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But yeah, just a lot of stuff.

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I was also not for LAFD, actually LAFD I was supposed to be.

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I was next in line to go into their air operations as a flight medic, but I was a flight medic

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before for California City Fire Department out in the Mojave Desert as a flight medic

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on a helicopter out there.

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So I've had a pretty extensive experience.

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I was at 9-11, ground zero there.

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I worked for the Department of Justice dealing with Chris Koslow who was running the operation

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there, worked directly for him.

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So I don't know, I've had a vast and varied experience doing a lot of different things.

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And then fast forward to now, November 27th, I was retired.

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Not by my own means.

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You were forced to be retired.

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Yeah, I was forced to retire or terminated for what they consider not being in compliance

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with the condition of employment.

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So and that's where we stand today.

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Well, we will get to there, but there's so much I want to pull from all the things that

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you told us, all these rungs of your ladder.

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So let's start at the very beginning.

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With this lens that you have now and it's quite a storied career that you have and obviously

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some very high highs and now here we are some pretty low lows as well.

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When you look back at the impact of over three decades working in LA as a police officer

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on your father, were there any elements that you think were detrimental to him now you've

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got this wiser perspective?

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Elements that were detrimental to my father?

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Yeah, I mean, especially, you know, the impact of the job mentally, physically, et cetera.

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Oh yeah, absolutely.

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I mean, I would say for sure, you know, it was a major factor in the divorce of my parents.

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You know, especially back then that was late seventies, early eighties, late seventies.

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You know, mental health wasn't even talked about.

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So you know, my dad worked a very unique career path throughout LAPD doing, I mean, he worked

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vice narcotics, rode with the Hells Angels for a period undercover.

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He was in another organization there called Cobra.

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He was instrumental in putting Shub Knight in jail for death row records.

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So there's a lot of interesting things, you know, and with that job working in the city

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of Los Angeles, you know, it really puts a lot of stressors on you, you know, and I don't

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necessarily know whether he was capable of coping with that, you know, and dealing with

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that.

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And I mean, here we are in 2023 and look at, I mean, there's a lot of lip service to mental

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health, but there's really not a lot of mental health stuff that the departments are doing,

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you know.

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So yeah, I think those are all big factors.

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I had a guest on Jay Dobbins.

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I think he was out of Arizona and he was actually ATF, but he was one of the ones who went undercover

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with the, I think it was the Hells Angels as well.

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Very famous story.

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But again, organizational betrayal is huge in his story too, because his department kind

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of shunned him on the back end of it.

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Yeah, you know, it's funny at one point, I mean, I had looked at going into the DEA originally

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when I was testing for LAPD, because my dad had a friend that was in that.

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And you know, back then I think the starting salary was $19,000 a year plus you got a 25%

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bonus pay for being out of the country.

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You know, South America or whatever.

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Back then I'm like, what?

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That's so stupid.

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There's no, I don't know, you know, but when you're young and you look at things and you're

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like, oh, adrenaline, I want to go do this and I want to save the world, you know, and

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you get there and you're like, what?

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Yes.

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Yeah, I was just talking to one of the guys.

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He's, let me see, ODA.

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Have I got that right?

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Yeah I think it's ODA.

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No, fuck.

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Hold on a second.

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I'm going to get, I'll cut this bit out because I've got to get this right.

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EOD, because I'll get, I was too confused.

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Yeah, I was interviewing a guy, Nick Kush yesterday, who was an EOD, Navy EOD, which

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is the explosive kind of expert alongside the SEALs and he'd been a SWIC boat driver

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as well.

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So, you know, immersed in that whole community, but he works, you know, in the training department

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now, air quotes, for the SEALs.

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So he's developing the newest of the new technology.

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And I was asking him about this because so many of the people in the special operations

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community, they're amazed when they discover, you know, overall the lack of training support

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experts that we have around us, even though we're protecting their families when they're

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overseas.

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Yeah, it's a sad state of affairs, you know, in public service these days, you know, emergency

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services, both, you know, fire and police.

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There's just literally, it's like ostrich syndrome, you know, everybody knows it's going

231
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:56,720
on.

232
00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:01,720
Maybe it's machismo syndrome, you know, everybody wants to pound on their chest and be a fire

233
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,380
slayer or super cop, right?

234
00:17:04,380 --> 00:17:12,320
But not really understand the necessity of what mental wellness really means because,

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you know, it doesn't only affect you, it affects everyone around you, right?

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Your family, your wife, your mom, your dad, your kids.

237
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I mean, guys just become ticking time bombs between, you know, drugs, alcohol, gambling,

238
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:34,160
porn, you name it, whatever that vice is that they slip into and they just create this swath

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00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:35,920
of destruction.

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And then if you're not in a good state, you know, mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually,

241
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:48,120
how do you go out and serve the citizens, you know, that you swore that oath to, you

242
00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:49,120
know?

243
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:56,520
It's a really slippery slope and unfortunately, I think ego gets in the way and we need to

244
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,800
lose that, you know, be humble.

245
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:05,160
We're all the same thing, we're all humans and there's not one person on this planet,

246
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:11,880
I don't care how bad-ass you are, what a bitch and motherfucker, period.

247
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You're gonna eat it at some point, you know?

248
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:20,760
You can, I, you know, for me, one of the things I noticed, I kind of got a little tangent

249
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:26,600
on mental health here but the way that I liken it to is like, you know, working in the city

250
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:30,000
of Los Angeles, it's a shithole, you know?

251
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,800
There's, I mean, it's a great city but the crime and corruption and the things you see

252
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:40,880
on a daily basis, unfortunately, we see the underbelly of society most of the time, right?

253
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,760
So it will affect you and, you know, we run over 2,000 calls a day in the city of Los

254
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,560
Angeles so think about that, you know?

255
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:52,480
On average, guys are running 20 calls a shift and those things that you see, you know, you

256
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:58,160
don't want to take that home to your family really but there's nothing in play to help

257
00:18:58,160 --> 00:18:59,480
you deal with that.

258
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:00,480
So what do you do?

259
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,040
You lock that, you know, for me, it was, I had a box, right?

260
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:07,640
And I would just lock all that stuff in a box and chain it all up and make everything

261
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:12,840
like it was honky-dory but doesn't matter after a while, those monsters, you know, they

262
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:14,800
start scratching at that box, right?

263
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:19,720
And little holes get in there and it starts leaking out and shit happens, man.

264
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:24,120
And before you know it, you know, it's all going to come out at some point so you either

265
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:30,840
have to figure out how to deal with it because if you don't, you're going to destroy everyone

266
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,320
and possibly yourself as well, you know?

267
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,880
So it's a sad state of affairs.

268
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:38,880
No, it is.

269
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,480
The thing is, you know, when I have these conversations, it sounds kind of doom and

270
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,800
gloom and if you contrast it to the Chess Beat in Greatest Job in the World conversations

271
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:51,480
you hear on some other, you know, podcasts and rightly so because it is and I adore it

272
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:56,920
but the thing is we can't survive on glory alone.

273
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We need rest, recovery, we need, you know, the pay that's not going to require someone

274
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:05,120
to work two other jobs is to make their mortgage and so this is going to be my call to action

275
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:12,400
in 2024 for the fire service is we are so courageous when it comes to fires, when it

276
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:17,120
comes to, you know, extrications off the side of a bridge or going down a sewer pipe or

277
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:22,620
whatever it is but yet and I understand it's because we're so damn beat down and tired

278
00:20:22,620 --> 00:20:28,200
as well but the fight is kind of sucked out of us but we just accept these conditions

279
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,760
that we're given and the perfect example that I'm fighting for at the moment is the work

280
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:32,760
week.

281
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:37,680
Like the fact that our first responder works 56 hours a week minimum, you know, to go from

282
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:43,360
a dead sleep to, you know, heart rate of 160 as you're driving the back of a tiller on

283
00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:48,200
the way to a structure fire or a wreck, you know, it's insanity and yet the people making

284
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,800
those decisions work 40 hours a week and go to their bed every night, you know, so we

285
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:58,440
need to find that same courage that we have on a call to actually advocate for ourselves

286
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,040
because we are selfless but it's getting to the point where there will be no fire service

287
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:06,800
if we keep letting them doing what they're doing to us and we have to rise up and unite

288
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:11,640
and push back against it but look if you want a fire service that's fine but you have to

289
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,880
start giving us the time to recover from these shifts, you have to give us the tools to keep

290
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:21,080
our bodies healthy, to keep our minds healthy or you're going to go back to, you know, bucket

291
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,800
brigade and no one's going to step up and do this anymore.

292
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,240
Yeah, absolutely.

293
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,840
And that's the really tricky part.

294
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,320
How do you do that, right?

295
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:37,280
Because you know, like the city of Los Angeles, the city of San Jose, there's still cities

296
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:43,000
in this state of California where the mandate is in place, right?

297
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,560
And so people don't want to go to work there, right?

298
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:52,560
Because they're forced to take this shot.

299
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:58,760
And so to that point, it's like, okay, we're already short staffed, you're forced hiring

300
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:07,120
every day, you know, you go in, I mean, it's not uncommon for you to work in 96 or 120

301
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:12,640
and it's like and then you get a day off or you get 12 hours off and then you're, you

302
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,880
know, forced hired again, you know?

303
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:21,520
So it's like, at what part does that seem realistic or feasible?

304
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:27,760
It's not, you know, I mean, I've done it and I got extremely sick.

305
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:34,680
You know, I spent two and a half years off of work trying to recover from all kinds of

306
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:41,200
issues but I think what brought a lot of that on was the fact that I was so run down, my

307
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,680
system was crushed from working so much, you know?

308
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,040
And out here in California, it's quite different, you know?

309
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:55,840
I mean, we make very good money and, you know, there's a lot of places where guys aren't

310
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,440
making that kind of money and so they're sea shifting, right?

311
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:03,920
They're doing, they're running a side business, they're doing whatever to get by and that's,

312
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,120
you know, economy wise, that's a whole other topic, right?

313
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:12,240
We can talk about but what happens here is guys don't see shift, they end up just working

314
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:19,360
overtime because it's there, we have constant staffing and so because it's there, it's very

315
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:25,160
easy and so then they can make a lot of money and, you know, and then you get sucked into

316
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:30,360
that and then what happens is now you're living above your means because you're relying on

317
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:35,040
overtime because you bought all this shit, right?

318
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:40,120
Because living on your base salary and then that's investment money or whatever, right?

319
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:41,320
You're not relying on that.

320
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:46,520
So now guys get stuck in that mode of they have to work five, six, seven overtime shifts

321
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:51,740
or get forced hire, excuse me, every day in order to maintain their lifestyle.

322
00:23:51,740 --> 00:23:55,640
So you know, we have to take responsibility on that side as well, right?

323
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,240
We can't just say, well, it's the department.

324
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,520
Well, no, it's not, bro.

325
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:07,600
You literally you dug yourself into this hole, you know, so now you have to dig yourself

326
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,760
out, sell a boat, you know, sell some of your toys so that you don't have those expenses,

327
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:14,080
that overhead, you know?

328
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:22,900
So there's a lot of issues at hand but in reality, it all boils down, any of it, anything

329
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:30,440
that we do, we have to take responsibility for our actions, right?

330
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:37,280
It doesn't matter whether it's at work, you know, management versus employee or it's husband

331
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:38,280
and wife, right?

332
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,800
There's two sides to every story, you know, we have to take responsibility for those actions.

333
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,560
It's not always that one person, right?

334
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:50,880
So yeah, I think this is what's been the barrier to getting these issues fixed is there's been

335
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:55,040
a lot of kind of finger pointing, you know, and even I would argue that there's some good

336
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,440
unions out there but I've seen a lot of self-serving in the unions that I've worked, you know,

337
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,520
in the departments I work for and so then it's all the management, there's sort of union

338
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,720
that or it's the membership or, you know, whatever it is and everyone's kind of pointing

339
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:12,000
fingers rather than all getting together and accepting their part of the problem and one

340
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,240
thing I underline a lot, for example, not so much in the California because I know the

341
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:21,200
schedule when I worked out there was a different pattern but over here, we say, oh, I work

342
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,800
one day on two days off.

343
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,600
Well, we don't.

344
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:29,120
There's nowhere else in the world is a workday 24 hours, it's eight hours with a one hour

345
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:32,560
lunch in between, you know, so we work three days on one day off.

346
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:38,160
So we tell this fairytale, we go around telling all our neighbors, I only work 10 days a month.

347
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:39,160
No, you fucking don't.

348
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,400
You work 30 days a month.

349
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,320
Just three of those days are scrunched together in a ball for 24 hours.

350
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:45,320
Yeah.

351
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,520
So we're telling that fairytale and then we're getting, you know, obviously the kind of cities,

352
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:54,280
counties, oh, we don't have the money to staff properly and so there's all this myth going

353
00:25:54,280 --> 00:26:02,360
on and the reality is the way that we are being worked between our belief in this mythical,

354
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:06,080
supposed incredible schedule that we have and then all the way up to the other kind

355
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:12,480
of levels is we are bleeding money because our people are falling apart, you know, medical

356
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,680
retirements and, you know, wrongful death lawsuits and you name it, all the things that

357
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:17,680
happen.

358
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,720
And so the money is there too, but it needs us all to accept our part of it.

359
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:27,000
We need to not oppose it because you're an overtime whore and you want this and you don't

360
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,060
care about the fact that you've been to 10 fucking firefighter funerals this year.

361
00:26:31,060 --> 00:26:34,920
So we have to get rid of that, but then we also have to see at the higher level, the

362
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:39,100
false economy of the way that we're working and how you would actually not only save your

363
00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:43,700
city or county a shitload of money, but you'd increase the delivery of service if you added

364
00:26:43,700 --> 00:26:49,320
a fourth platoon so that the men and women could actually get like a full 72 hour period

365
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:55,040
between 24 hours of getting your dick kicked in and the next 24 hours.

366
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:56,040
Yeah.

367
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,720
And you're right on that.

368
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:04,160
But then again, you would, you know, you still fall into that play and this is where, you

369
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:09,800
know, rules would have to be put in there where it's like, okay, you can't work, you

370
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:15,500
know, if you've got one day on and then you're off for 72, right?

371
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:19,680
You can't work though in that 72 hour period.

372
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,820
You know how you make that happen though?

373
00:27:21,820 --> 00:27:24,320
You staff your department properly.

374
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:25,680
Yes.

375
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:26,680
Yeah.

376
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,360
Yeah, there's, I mean, I see it.

377
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:31,120
I mean, both, both sides.

378
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,420
I mean, I can see the argument from both sides.

379
00:27:33,420 --> 00:27:38,680
You're going to have the individuals that, you know, are chasing that dollar.

380
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,680
But it's like, okay, well, you know what, then go do something else in that period of

381
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,720
time, you know, start another business.

382
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:55,200
Do something to help your community ever because this job is so demanding and has, you know,

383
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:56,200
look at the suicide rates.

384
00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:01,440
They're higher than any other career out there, you know?

385
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,400
And I mean, it's just been on the rise, especially since COVID, you know?

386
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,120
I mean, it's, it's through the roof and there's a lot of factors for that.

387
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:15,720
So yeah, I mean, there's, there's room to make changes, but then again, that comes back

388
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,760
to the unions and you know, like you said, and I'm going to put this out there and I,

389
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,200
I hope all of you union leaders that are listening to this take heed.

390
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,920
You suck, period.

391
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,640
End of story.

392
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,320
There's very few unions and I applaud.

393
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:36,360
Yay team, the unions that step to the plate for their members.

394
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:39,720
But they're bought and sold and they're controlled opposition.

395
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:47,400
And I've seen it firsthand because I've talked to people all across this country.

396
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,040
I mean, we built out, you know, firefighters for freedom.

397
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:56,240
We have approximately 21 chapters and I've created a network, you know, our organization

398
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,040
has created this network across the country that I can pick up a phone call and talk to

399
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:01,040
anyone.

400
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:08,320
They're calling me from all over Chicago, Florida, New York, DC, Boston, West coast,

401
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:09,960
middle of the country.

402
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:15,160
Middle of the country is not as bad, but you know, definitely both sides of the coast are

403
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,680
bananas.

404
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,400
And I hear the same thing over and over.

405
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,560
It's literally like a, a playbook.

406
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:29,840
They're all doing the same exact thing and that's not standing up for their membership.

407
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:35,960
I mean, for the city of Los Angeles, we pay $6 million a year in dues.

408
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:45,520
And for me to be terminated with that kind of money going into it and the lack of assistance

409
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,880
and help that we've seen throughout this whole thing.

410
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:53,080
And the only thing that they've done is because our organization has pushed them.

411
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,600
And so they do what they should be doing, but then they don't follow through.

412
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,960
They make it look like they're doing something, right?

413
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,700
And it's like the puppet master, right?

414
00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:06,400
Look over here while we're doing this other thing behind the curtain.

415
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:13,280
You know, a union's job is wages, benefits, and working conditions.

416
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,560
Three things that they're responsible for.

417
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,080
So working conditions.

418
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:26,800
We have the worst working conditions I've seen in my 23 years in the fire service.

419
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:36,240
It's only gotten worse and you can't tell me their job is to be 180 degrees polar opposite

420
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,160
of what the city is, not lockstep with them, right?

421
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,160
They're lapdogs.

422
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,160
That's all it is.

423
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,360
And they're playing for political chips, you know?

424
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:54,400
And it's like, no, you know, one of the things that really frustrated me always was that,

425
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,960
you know, oh, the PAC funds, right, that we pay into.

426
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,240
Oh, well, you know, we need to get this city council member on board.

427
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,320
You know, we need to give them a million dollars.

428
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,520
And it's like, wait a minute.

429
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,600
We don't work for city council members.

430
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,400
We work for the constituents of the city of Los Angeles.

431
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:18,560
And by us giving this council member a million dollars, what about the other 50% of the citizens

432
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,320
that don't go along with what this person says?

433
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:26,120
We should be apolitical in that aspect and like, look, we're not putting any money into

434
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,120
any of your campaigns, period, end of story.

435
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,960
But what we'll do is we'll sit down with you and we'll work through the issues, whoever

436
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,680
gets voted in, you know?

437
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:45,080
But unfortunately, we always go the Democratic side because, you know, they're pro-union

438
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,160
and so on and so forth.

439
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,760
But in reality, it should be like, look, stop playing these political games and paying these

440
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,600
people, you know?

441
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:59,720
So that you can, I mean, the last person that we did for city council president, you know,

442
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,740
they paid a ton of money to her to get her in there.

443
00:32:02,740 --> 00:32:04,040
We endorsed her, you know?

444
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,080
And then what does she do?

445
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:10,360
She turns around and drops this COVID mandate and is pushing for the terminations, you know?

446
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:15,880
And it's like, we just paid for her to terminate us?

447
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,580
What part of this are you missing?

448
00:32:17,580 --> 00:32:21,520
You gave back a raise?

449
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,880
I mean, you know, it's just insanity.

450
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:29,240
It's like, stop playing the political game, be there for your members, fight tooth and

451
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:33,440
nail because they're paying your salary, they're paying your overtime, they're paying all those

452
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:39,120
things for you to be there for them and you guys are just rolling over, you know?

453
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,120
It's disgusting.

454
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:46,760
So, you know, unless guys are willing to stand up and step into that position and take over

455
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,920
those union positions and really make that change, but it's corrupt.

456
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,760
I mean, at every level with those guys.

457
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:55,760
Sorry.

458
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,640
No, but this is the thing.

459
00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,800
I paid my union dues my whole career.

460
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:00,800
You did, you know what I mean?

461
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:01,800
So we get to have a voice.

462
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:06,720
We get to say, hey, this is not seeming to do what we thought it would.

463
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,160
You come into the fire service, you're like, oh, this is the movement that created Bunker

464
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,800
Gear and SCBA and they're fighting for our cancer and all these things.

465
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,360
And then you get in, I was in 14 years, I got out the other end.

466
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,320
I'm like, absolutely fucking nothing has changed in 14 years.

467
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:23,320
That's a long time.

468
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:28,080
14 years, you know, that was like almost the birth of the internet to now, you know?

469
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,520
So a lot of things should happen.

470
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:35,160
And you look at, for example, you know, there's one tiny mental health center in the Northeast

471
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:36,160
side of the country.

472
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,920
You're like, check, we got the suicide problem figured out from the IAFF.

473
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,320
It's like, no, we've got so much that we need to do.

474
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,280
And as you said, so many people are putting their hard earned money in, you know, part

475
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,720
of their wages so that, you know, we can advocate.

476
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,500
It doesn't have to be for me.

477
00:33:51,500 --> 00:33:54,920
If I'm blessed with good health, then make it go to all the other people that need the

478
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:56,080
help.

479
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:01,600
But my last place, they had the IAFF, and this is before the change of membership, this

480
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,560
is Scheitberger still, I think.

481
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:09,540
And it was funny because they called me after I retired from there and that was fucking

482
00:34:09,540 --> 00:34:11,680
worst department I've ever worked for.

483
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,520
But they were going to the Disney area for the conference that year.

484
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,400
And they were like, oh, yeah, so that, you know, apparently for Scheitberger, we have

485
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,560
to have like this level of suite.

486
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:22,960
And I'm like, well, this is like Britney Spears and Blue M&M's.

487
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:23,960
What the fuck are we talking about?

488
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,300
These are union people and we're paying for them to come.

489
00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:30,320
And then they were like, oh, can you get John Travolta to do the keynote?

490
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:31,320
Because I had him on my show once.

491
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:37,440
I'm like, no, but this is like, you're not, we're not, Michael Jackson isn't coming to

492
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,180
your fucking birthday party.

493
00:34:39,180 --> 00:34:43,120
These are people that work for us that you pay for that are supposed to be advocating

494
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,760
to improve our conditions.

495
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,960
And like you said, there is no more basal thing than the work week.

496
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,520
You know, I mean, we stopped putting kids up chimneys and in factories because we realized

497
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:54,680
they were killing them.

498
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,640
Yet we lose so many firefighters every year.

499
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:03,360
Once in a while, it will be an actual, you know, fire or some god awful tragic accident.

500
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,520
But most of the time it's cancer, heart disease, and now double the amount is suicide.

501
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,560
And that's even the ones we know about the moment we retire, we cease to be a statistics

502
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,040
in the fire service.

503
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:18,160
So all those are getting worse despite modern medicine getting better.

504
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,440
And yet you're beating your chest saying that you're the greatest union in the country.

505
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:22,440
And I disagree.

506
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:28,200
We should be in the union philosophy is beautiful, but it's being abused by many, many people.

507
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:29,200
Yeah.

508
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:35,040
And, and so you just listed off all of those, you know, things that are, you know, uh, cancer

509
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:36,800
and heart disease and then stroke, right?

510
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:37,800
You're top three.

511
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,680
Well, and suicide now.

512
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:47,000
So, but since COVID, right?

513
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:56,600
Turbo cancers through the roof, sudden death, guys that are perfectly healthy specimens

514
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:57,600
of health, right?

515
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:07,120
Guys that are fit are literally having strokes, paralyzed pacemakers put in, right?

516
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:08,400
All of these things.

517
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:16,180
If you go from 2020 until now and look at the increase in cancer, turbo cancers, especially

518
00:36:16,180 --> 00:36:21,600
when I say turbo cancer, I mean, oh, not you were diagnosed with, you know, stage one.

519
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:26,980
No, you were diagnosed with stage four terminal pancreatic cancer, nut cancer, you know, whatever

520
00:36:26,980 --> 00:36:30,000
it is.

521
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,600
We've never seen that in the history of the fire service.

522
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,760
It all started from 2020 until now.

523
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,460
So there's a common denominator in that.

524
00:36:37,460 --> 00:36:43,760
And now you've got the IFF, you know, suing the turnout companies, cause this is their

525
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:50,280
play to cover their tracks is to say that the PAFS is what's causing cancer.

526
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,880
Well, we've had PFS and in the turnouts for how long, right?

527
00:36:54,880 --> 00:37:00,320
This isn't something that they just threw in there and we've never seen rates of cancer,

528
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,760
especially stage four cancer come out of nowhere until now.

529
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,320
And it's only going to exponentiate.

530
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:11,640
We're seeing the beginning of the curve and it's not going to be a gradual slope like

531
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:12,640
this.

532
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,680
It's going to go like this straight up.

533
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:21,840
And for anybody who's a doubting Thomas, I'm telling you firsthand because I've seen this

534
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,600
for the past two and a half years being in this space.

535
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:31,000
And it's disgusting that our unions aren't standing there helping protect against this,

536
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,800
you know, and that's something that we're working on right now without the union's help.

537
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,980
But you know, when they're calling it a condition of employment, yet workers comp denies you

538
00:37:40,980 --> 00:37:51,080
for any of these claims, you know, you're seeing the largest

539
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,080
life insurance providers.

540
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,160
I mean, they carry stats.

541
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,160
That's their job, right?

542
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:56,160
Is life insurance.

543
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,240
So they know what all-cause mortality looks like.

544
00:37:59,240 --> 00:38:01,720
They know what the death rates are.

545
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:08,480
And when they say that they've seen a 44% rise in one year and that that's an unsustainable

546
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,400
model, guess what?

547
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:18,120
They're going to be putting clauses in that say, if you took an EUA shot, guess what?

548
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:19,120
You're out of the loop.

549
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:23,320
You can't get your insurance because it's an experiment and you chose to do it.

550
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,160
That's what's happening with medical insurance as well.

551
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,720
You know, guys go in, they're like, oh, did you take the shot?

552
00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:30,720
Yeah.

553
00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:33,800
Sorry, you're not covered into this because you had the option to opt out.

554
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,720
Well, no, they told me it was a condition of employment.

555
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:37,360
Yeah, but you could have opted out.

556
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:38,720
You could have gotten a job somewhere else.

557
00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:40,760
These are all the things that they're saying and we're seeing.

558
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,040
And it's like, where's our union standing and fighting for this?

559
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,760
Where's CPF, you know, and their legislature doing that?

560
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,280
You know, these guys are all lost because they're all bought and paid for.

561
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,000
So it's disgusting.

562
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,640
And that's, we're really going to see a huge spike come in that.

563
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:05,640
Unfortunately, it really saddens me, you know, but I mean, we did our own internal bears

564
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,960
report and it's there.

565
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:17,320
So yeah, it's, they really need to step to the plate on all levels because there's a

566
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,280
lot wrong in the fire service right now.

567
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:26,960
You know, and it's a fantastic career and it's very rewarding because you get to help

568
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:34,280
a lot of people, but really it's killing us at an exponential rate, you know, so.

569
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:35,840
A hundred percent.

570
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:40,440
I mean, this is the thing, you know, if you went to Afghanistan and you were well-trained

571
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:45,440
and well-equipped, but you got shot by an enemy combatant, that was, you know, the risk

572
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,160
that you took going over.

573
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:52,840
But if you went to Afghanistan and you were doing, let's say a menial job, for example,

574
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:57,400
and you weren't seeing combat, but it was the kind of job, a work environment where

575
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,680
10, 15, 20 years later, there was a high chance that you were going to get heart disease,

576
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:02,680
stroke, or cancer.

577
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,240
Well, those are preventable elements.

578
00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:10,520
You know, we can't prevent you and I make an entry and not realizing that the, you know,

579
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,600
the structure is compromised and there were no signs outside and we went in to rescue

580
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,760
someone and then we got collapsed on.

581
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,840
That's the chance that we take.

582
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:24,800
But if you're running, you know, ALS call after ALS call after ALS call and just doing

583
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:30,160
your job, but it's the actual work environment that is killing you, then that's a preventable

584
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:31,160
element, you know?

585
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:35,420
So, and I think, you know, this goes hand in hand with the turbo cancers and all that,

586
00:40:35,420 --> 00:40:40,800
and we're going to get to the vaccine in a second, but also our men and women were asked

587
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,620
to do more with less, more with less, more with less.

588
00:40:43,620 --> 00:40:50,440
So it was a double-edged sword because some had a reaction to a vaccine and, or some were

589
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:55,920
more susceptible to COVID as well because we were also destroying their human body at

590
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:57,400
the same time.

591
00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,120
Yeah, a hundred percent.

592
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:04,320
I mean, there is, you can go and look, I mean, there's plenty of white papers, there's plenty

593
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,360
of studies.

594
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:15,080
It's been looked at where, you know, sleep deprivation, right, was it crushes your immune

595
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:16,080
system, right?

596
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,520
I mean, it's funny, I used to think that we were Superman and we all looked in shape and

597
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,880
everything, you know, and whatever.

598
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:30,680
And when I was off sick for, you know, two years, when I came back, I was blown away.

599
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:36,280
I looked at everybody and I was like, what happened to everybody while I was gone?

600
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:42,120
And I noticed the inflammation was insane, you know, the redness in the face, just massive

601
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:48,560
swelling, body inflammation all over the place on guys that I used to think, oh, you know,

602
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:54,920
they were fit, all those guys were, no, they're not, they're underlying their fit, but their

603
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:56,520
immune systems are being crushed.

604
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:04,560
They have no sleep, they eat like shit, you know, there's, you know, and they start using

605
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,040
the coping mechanisms, right, especially alcohol.

606
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,200
And they, man, it was bad.

607
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:16,680
I was like, whoa, this is, I never realized it until I stepped away from it for that period

608
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,880
of time, right, working on my own health.

609
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,120
And you know, then when I came back, I was like, whoa, dude, you look great, you know,

610
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,720
you look, yeah, well, I feel great.

611
00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:27,320
I took care of myself.

612
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:34,480
It took me, you know, a year before I could sleep normal again, you know, sleep pattern

613
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:40,240
is not being jacked up, you know, not waking up and doing whatever, you know, or sleeping

614
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:44,800
so hard that when you wake up, you don't even know where you're at, you know, because the

615
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,480
body just isn't used to that, right?

616
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:52,720
So, I mean, it causes all kinds of issues with hormone dysregulation and so on and so

617
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:53,720
forth, right?

618
00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:57,640
And I mean, all the caffeine, right?

619
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,400
I mean, you're already dealing with it, adrenaline rush to a certain extent, you know, I mean,

620
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,840
after a while, it just gets to be same place, same thing.

621
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:10,160
But then, you know, because you're running so many calls and you're up, you know, you're

622
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,480
working three days on a one day shift, right?

623
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,640
That whole thought process, but yet you're there for five in a row.

624
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,320
So you just worked 15 days and you've been doing nothing but pounding coffee, right?

625
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,820
Your adrenals are shot, everything is hammered.

626
00:43:23,820 --> 00:43:29,760
And so, you know, your system is failing way faster.

627
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:35,440
Plus one of the classic things that at least in the LAFD that they used to say is, you

628
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:40,640
had 50 years from the day you were hired until the day you died.

629
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:46,160
So you know, if you worked 30 years, you know, we'd get a death notice that would come through,

630
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:47,160
right?

631
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:53,440
10 bells and then you'd read off when the guy was hired when he retired and on average,

632
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:58,240
you know, you'd have 18 to 20 years after that and then he was done.

633
00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:00,880
You know, you get some guys every once in a while you're like, well, that guy won the

634
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:01,880
lottery, right?

635
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,680
He lived 40 years after that.

636
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,920
Well, that's because he only worked 20 years, you know?

637
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:14,240
So yeah, it's, there's a lot that needs to happen.

638
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:15,240
Absolutely.

639
00:44:15,240 --> 00:44:20,240
Well, I want to get to some of the kind of highlights of career you mentioned being in

640
00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:21,240
9-11.

641
00:44:21,240 --> 00:44:22,240
So I'd love to hear that too.

642
00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:26,760
So let's kind of hit some of your career before we unpack COVID specifically.

643
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,380
So firstly, you talked about working on the police side and search and rescue.

644
00:44:30,380 --> 00:44:34,880
So what would be some of the career calls during a time in that uniform?

645
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,200
Oh man.

646
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:47,560
You know, I spent a lot of time in the mountains looking for lost people, dangling out of helicopters,

647
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,560
swift water, you name it.

648
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,240
I mean, it was, that was super rewarding.

649
00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:57,760
Really got me interested in the EMS aspect of it, right?

650
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:04,120
Because I mean, you come upon people and they're jacked up, you know, out the forest, you know,

651
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:05,280
austere environment.

652
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:12,200
So that really made it so that I wanted to go to paramedic school.

653
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:16,360
So you know, I mean, God, you come across everything.

654
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:22,720
I mean, we, you know, you come across in the national forest especially, and now it's more

655
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:28,560
prevalent out here than it was back then, but you know, huge marijuana plantations,

656
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,760
you know, run by cartels and things like that.

657
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:39,280
So you know, we'd make notifications and then annually they'd usually go in and do, you

658
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:45,400
know, raids with the military and DEA, you know, strip those out.

659
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:53,400
But it was just, you know, to me it was great working in the mountains because, you know,

660
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:58,840
whether you're on patrol, you're usually by yourself, there's no backup around.

661
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,760
So you really, you know, had to think strategically on everything you did, right?

662
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:07,640
It's not like being in a main city where you can just make a call and somebody's there,

663
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,640
you know, from around the block or whatever.

664
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:13,840
You got a 30 or 40 minute response time sometimes for anybody to be there.

665
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:21,200
So everything you did really had to be calculated, you know, from a traffic stop to whatever,

666
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:22,680
you know, it was you came upon.

667
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:28,520
So that was good, you know, and I mean, it was great because we traveled all over, you

668
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:35,360
know, we'd go across the state helping out, you know, other agencies, all the training,

669
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,520
you know, there's training is always good.

670
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:41,480
Get to go places and do things that most people don't get to see.

671
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:44,520
So yeah, it's just a different, it was good.

672
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:50,080
I liked it a lot, but I think it was, you know, I really enjoyed the medical aspect,

673
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:51,080
which I never realized.

674
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:56,720
And then that's kind of what lured me over to the fireside.

675
00:46:56,720 --> 00:46:57,720
So what about 9-11?

676
00:46:57,720 --> 00:46:59,920
Was that between PD and FD?

677
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:07,280
No, I was working for FD at that time.

678
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:16,480
I was at fire station 10 in downtown LA and I was at work the morning of, I remember I

679
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,800
was getting off shift and walked into the kitchen.

680
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,920
We make relief at 630 in the morning.

681
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:27,200
So I was down there, I don't know, six o'clock in the morning having a cup of coffee and

682
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,840
waiting for my relief to get there.

683
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:34,240
And you know, the TV's on every kitchen.

684
00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:37,080
Everybody knows the TV is always on.

685
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:41,760
So the news was on and I remember seeing that and I was like, what the hell?

686
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:48,560
Well, that's weird, you know, seeing the first plane hit and then, you know, all the chatter

687
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:49,560
on that.

688
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:56,760
And then a couple of minutes later to see that second plane hit, I'm like, that's okay.

689
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:57,760
That's an act of terrorism.

690
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:03,240
There's something going down and within, you know, seconds after that, you know, minute

691
00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:09,280
or whatever, pretty much they came across the PA system, you know, from our dispatch

692
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:10,280
center.

693
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:11,280
Nobody's leaving.

694
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:12,280
You're all recalled.

695
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:13,280
Everybody's staying.

696
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,840
And they made us staff, you know, all of them.

697
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:25,840
So we run a task force situation where you have a truck and a pump and then an engine.

698
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,000
So we staffed our pump because our pump normally just has an engineer on it.

699
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,880
So we staffed that fully staffed with four people.

700
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:36,040
We put an extra person on the ambulance at the time.

701
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:42,920
And then, you know, we turned the engine if we had the ability to into an ALS resource

702
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,040
in the station.

703
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,480
So, you know, we had extra ALS.

704
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:51,920
We had, you know, two platoons on and it was weird.

705
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:57,220
I'll tell you because anybody who's been to the city of Los Angeles, you know, or New

706
00:48:57,220 --> 00:48:59,880
York, they're just nonstop.

707
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:02,800
You know, it's just people everywhere.

708
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:10,280
And to go out, you know, initially we went out and surveyed, you know, our first in and

709
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:14,360
then just kind of hung out and waited and the city shut down.

710
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,840
It's like everything came to a grinding halt.

711
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:22,440
You could drive through downtown and there wasn't a person on the ground anywhere.

712
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,400
You could have shot a cannon down there.

713
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,600
The only other time I've seen it like that was in COVID.

714
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:35,320
And I'm telling you, it's the eeriest thing in the world to be in a city that big and

715
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,320
have nothing.

716
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,480
Weird.

717
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:50,960
So you know, from that, I still had been working with the sheriff's department through search

718
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:52,860
and rescue.

719
00:49:52,860 --> 00:49:56,000
We were going to be deployed.

720
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,920
So I was working on, you know, getting time off through the fire department.

721
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:03,760
And then that fell through.

722
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:11,840
And then my partner at the time, Wendy Cummings, she said, hey, do you still want to go?

723
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:13,200
And I said, yeah.

724
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,760
So she had made the phone call.

725
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:21,240
And then next thing you know, I was on a critical incident stress debriefing team, CSD team.

726
00:50:21,240 --> 00:50:27,040
It was three of us from the fire department and two detectives, I think, and one sergeant

727
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,200
from LAPD.

728
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:35,160
And the police protective league actually put it together.

729
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:36,920
And so we went out there.

730
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,040
We were two days later.

731
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:45,720
You know, we were the first plane off the ground in LA.

732
00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:49,760
And we flew out there and landed.

733
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:51,560
And that was weird, man.

734
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:57,440
We had all these coppers show up from New York, you know, at the airport, grabbed our

735
00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:04,200
gear and everything, threw us in squad cars and they were hauling ass back to the city.

736
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:09,400
Emergency, I mean, and those guys, a whole other ball of wax, man.

737
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,240
I mean, they're driving on the sidewalk.

738
00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:14,640
They're driving, pushing cars off the road.

739
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:16,560
I'm like, what the hell's going on, man?

740
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,280
You'd think the president of the United States was here.

741
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,360
So that was a trip.

742
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:32,840
You know, so we got back into the city and then hooked up with the sergeants union.

743
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:39,440
And then they basically kind of, they walked, they took, they have, have you been downtown

744
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:40,440
yet?

745
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:41,440
No.

746
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:46,440
So they got us some badges and took us downtown and we walked through ground zero.

747
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,600
Ooh, man, that was something else.

748
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:54,120
I mean, they had just put a fence up, literally a fence went up.

749
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:58,760
And so, you know, it was 16 square blocks.

750
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:04,080
I think it was around that.

751
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,000
I mean, it was undescribable.

752
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:12,920
There's no words to it looked like a war zone, you know, in the middle East, like Lebanon

753
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:16,120
or, I mean, it was just shit everywhere.

754
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:19,320
Things crushed and collapsed.

755
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:23,600
It was really just, you walk through there so surreal and you're like, fuck, is this

756
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:24,920
the United States of America?

757
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:26,600
What in the hell just happened here?

758
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:27,600
No.

759
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:31,440
So you really, there's a lot to take in.

760
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,180
And back then, you know, we didn't have smartphones.

761
00:52:33,180 --> 00:52:35,520
We didn't have flip phones.

762
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:40,760
We had a little piece of shit cell phone.

763
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:45,280
Maybe it was a flip phone, but no cameras, you know, and they're like, no, no pictures.

764
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:46,480
You can't take any pictures.

765
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:48,360
If they see you taking pictures, they'll kick you out.

766
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:49,360
And I'm like, that's weird.

767
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,960
Why the fuck can't we take pictures?

768
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,840
You know, it's not like, so anyway, I had a little 110 camera.

769
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:56,840
You remember those?

770
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:57,840
I think so.

771
00:52:57,840 --> 00:52:59,240
The little rectangular one.

772
00:52:59,240 --> 00:53:00,240
Yeah.

773
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:02,240
The disposable camera oblong or whatever.

774
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:03,240
Yeah.

775
00:53:03,240 --> 00:53:07,520
So I was walking along and snapping photos when nobody's looking.

776
00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:10,040
I'm like, this is fucking unreal.

777
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:11,400
This is history.

778
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:12,400
You know?

779
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:17,120
So anyway, we walked around and the guy's like, hey, I'm going to take you over to the

780
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,480
guy who's running this here at ground zero.

781
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:23,280
So he took us over there and we started talking to him.

782
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,320
And his name was Chris Koslow.

783
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,360
And it turns out he was retired LAPD.

784
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:33,920
He worked Devonshire division for, I don't know, 15 years or something like that.

785
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,200
And now he was working for the DOJ.

786
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:45,840
And so we started talking to him and he was like, well, what are you guys doing?

787
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:51,800
Like, well, we came down here as a part of the CISD team, but nobody wants to talk.

788
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:59,640
You know, nobody, New York, I mean, that wasn't even a thing.

789
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,520
You know, I mean, they didn't even believe in the ICS system back then.

790
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,120
I mean, that wasn't even, there was no ICS system in place.

791
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,320
It was a mess, man.

792
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:14,080
So he's like, well, you know, you can, you want to work for me?

793
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:16,920
I was like, yeah, what do you need?

794
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:24,320
I was like, well, I got to go, you know, to this meeting right now, but I need, they had

795
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:29,040
barges coming across from Jersey, full of equipment and all this stuff.

796
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,400
And he's like, I have no idea where these things are coming from.

797
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,320
I don't know what equipment's on there.

798
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,320
I need to know what this place looks like.

799
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:37,880
You know, I said, okay, cool.

800
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,560
Well, I need a lot of resources.

801
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:41,560
You know, I need maps.

802
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:46,720
I need, if you have satellite imagery, you know, whatever you have.

803
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:55,640
So he tasked me with, you know, some guys from CBRN and PD, the national guard.

804
00:54:55,640 --> 00:55:00,480
I mean, he's like, whatever you need, ask these guys and they'll get it for you.

805
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:01,480
Okay.

806
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:07,160
So he says, but I want to plan when I come back of how we can take this city back over

807
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:11,920
because we have, you know, there was all these civilians inside of there because that was

808
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:14,720
a political football, right?

809
00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:20,920
So one thing led to another anyway, gridded out the city, figured out where resources

810
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:22,400
were coming from, so on and so forth.

811
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:28,160
And then that just started the ball rolling and it just escalated into, holy shit, or

812
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,880
rebuilding the city.

813
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,640
It's a long story, but, and there's a lot of pieces to it, but man, it was something

814
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:35,640
else.

815
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:41,040
I mean, I would have never thought, you know, just happenstance, met this guy hooked up

816
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,040
and one thing led to another and there it is.

817
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:49,120
It was, gave me a lot of experience, you know, a lot of, and I was used to running operations

818
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,720
through, you know, the sheriff's department.

819
00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:55,840
So that was really good, you know, on logistics and stuff like that.

820
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:57,680
And then when we came back, it was interesting.

821
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:02,280
We put together, you know, PowerPoint on what we saw, lessons learned, things to consider,

822
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,960
you know, for out here.

823
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:09,400
And we gave that to the sheriff's department, you know, the sheriff and all of his top command

824
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:13,920
staff, we gave that to LAPD police chief and his command staff.

825
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:20,880
And then we attempted to give it to the LAFD and they just farted at me and like, no, thanks.

826
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:22,640
Yeah, we're good.

827
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,840
We don't need any of that information.

828
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:25,840
What?

829
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:27,840
Okay.

830
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,760
It's weird.

831
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:34,680
Another weird thing in the LAFD, but whatever.

832
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,000
When you look back now, what do you think that came from?

833
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:39,840
It seems like so often it's egos.

834
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:44,760
Like I've obviously tried to bring solutions to places I've worked and usually it's an

835
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:48,120
ego of an individual ultimately is the hurdle.

836
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:49,600
Yeah.

837
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:55,040
Back then, especially if you weren't a chief, you literally had no say so, you know.

838
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:59,440
So that was really interesting, you know, because I wasn't, I was just a firefighter

839
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:03,880
paramedic, you know, dumb fireman.

840
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:10,960
But I had the firsthand experience working, you know, for the main guy at ground zero.

841
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:15,440
There's a lot of intel, a lot of information that, you know, lessons learned on what to

842
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:21,640
look at things you'd never consider in a situation like that, right?

843
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,160
That we came across that we had to deal with, you know?

844
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:31,560
And as a city, you would think your EOC or whatever, you know, your DOC would want to

845
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:37,840
know that information to be able to better, you know, utilize that in some kind of disaster

846
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:38,840
scenario, right?

847
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:39,840
Yeah.

848
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,560
Well, especially when you have terrorism, but you also have earthquakes, which could

849
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,200
create the same kind of scenario.

850
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:45,200
Yeah, absolutely.

851
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:50,200
I mean, those hit out of nowhere and literally it would look the same, you know?

852
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:55,720
I mean, if we had an 8.0 or higher, it's no problem, you drop these buildings.

853
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:57,440
So yeah.

854
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:04,400
So if you could impart to everyone listening now, some of those takeaways that you were

855
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:09,080
trying to educate your own people with, you know, a lot of us have, you know, I spent

856
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:11,960
a lot of my time in Anaheim and the Orlando area.

857
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:16,200
So again, still pretty urban, maybe not the high rise landscape that you guys have in

858
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:20,120
New York, but still a lot of similar target hazards.

859
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:23,480
So what would be the takeaways for the average person listening now?

860
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,560
Well, comms are number one, right?

861
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:30,720
You definitely, I mean, without comms, and it doesn't matter whether it's on the job

862
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:33,240
or in your marriage, right?

863
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:34,640
Everything falls apart without that.

864
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:42,920
So you need to really have some sort of communication system in place and a backup for any type

865
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:44,400
of scenario like that.

866
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,720
That would probably be the number one thing.

867
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:54,480
Then, you know, moving forward, I mean, there's so many different factors that go into an

868
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:55,960
operation like that, you know?

869
00:58:55,960 --> 00:59:02,240
I mean, initially you're looking at the search and rescue aspect of it, right?

870
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:06,240
And then, you know, you're dealing with the recovery aspect of it, right?

871
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:11,720
If there's bodies, I mean, there really wasn't much recovery going on at that time, very

872
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:15,520
little to none.

873
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:19,040
So I mean, you really need somebody managing that aspect of it, right?

874
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:25,200
And then you need somebody, there's still search and rescue on another level too, because

875
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:28,560
you have all these other buildings around that area as well, right?

876
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:34,760
So all of those buildings need to be cleared to make sure that, you know, somebody didn't

877
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:38,040
get trampled, somebody didn't fall, somebody didn't have a heart attack, right?

878
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:40,640
Somebody who was in a wheelchair who couldn't get out, you know?

879
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:46,360
I mean, you're talking about 30 to, I mean, trade centers were 110 stories.

880
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:48,480
So you got a lot of buildings that are very tall.

881
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,400
There's a lot of landscape to cover.

882
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:57,180
You have that whole situation to deal with because there's still, it's no different like

883
00:59:57,180 --> 00:59:58,720
a USAR operation, right?

884
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:02,940
You know, you got to go through and mark your doors and your buildings to make sure that

885
01:00:02,940 --> 01:00:03,940
those are cleared.

886
01:00:03,940 --> 01:00:07,600
Well, this is the same thing floor by floor, but in hundreds of buildings.

887
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:12,160
So I mean, it's a monumental task on that aspect.

888
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:17,640
You know, then you're dealing, I mean, you're dealing with all the different agencies.

889
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:25,480
So water and power, gas, you know, one of the big things that was really a good takeaway

890
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:30,400
was sanitation, you know, and everything in New York is unionized.

891
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:35,240
So there was a lot of infighting with that.

892
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:36,240
That's our job.

893
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:38,480
We're not in charge of that, you know.

894
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:45,520
Yeah, you are, but we have to come together and there's a main center of command and then

895
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:49,560
all information disseminates down from that on what you guys, you guys just can't go out

896
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:52,400
there and willy-nilly be doing everything, right?

897
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:56,460
It all has to come together from one central command post.

898
01:00:56,460 --> 01:01:02,120
But what was interesting, one of the big things as well was because what happens when sanitation

899
01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:03,120
stops, right?

900
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:04,120
Trash pick up.

901
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:06,640
Well, Manhattan's on an island.

902
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:07,640
We got rats, right?

903
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:12,120
You got a lot of rats in Manhattan.

904
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:15,680
And so what do rats carry?

905
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:16,680
Disease, right?

906
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:21,160
So now you're dealing with issues of disease spread, contagions, things like that.

907
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:27,640
So about every 10 floors, I think it was in those high rise buildings, depending on the

908
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:33,000
size of them, they had a cafeteria that's full of food.

909
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:34,080
There's no power.

910
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:35,080
There's no cooling.

911
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:36,080
There's no electricity.

912
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:40,680
Now that food's sitting there rotting and now you've got that pest problem running up

913
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,760
into those facilities scavenging.

914
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:53,840
So getting people into those zones to clear that stuff out is super crucial.

915
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:59,500
Understanding what's in your buildings as well and having, I mean, we have a 704 placard

916
01:01:59,500 --> 01:02:01,720
on a lot of buildings, right?

917
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:05,880
So it might tell you what's in there, but not the quantities and stuff.

918
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:07,960
And so making sure that you're not sending people in.

919
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:14,320
That was another thing too was there was no respirators and that was one of the big things

920
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:20,960
I'm like, we need these people to be wearing, not an N95.

921
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:30,080
I mean, there wasn't even that, but legit 3M particle canisters and stuff.

922
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:33,600
And food was being set up outside.

923
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:39,640
You have people coming with truckloads of food to help the first responders, right?

924
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:42,640
And I mean, you got McDonald's and all these other places that are out there and there's

925
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:47,440
tables set up everywhere and this food's just laying all over.

926
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:48,600
There's no climate control on it.

927
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:49,740
There's no nothing on it.

928
01:02:49,740 --> 01:02:54,120
And now you've got all this debris, ash, all of this stuff falling on this and guys are

929
01:02:54,120 --> 01:03:01,520
just eating it, not thinking of the concept of what's in this, asbestos, heavy metals,

930
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:04,200
radiation, all kinds of stuff.

931
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:07,920
I mean, we know what was there.

932
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,640
So all of those things need to be considerations, right?

933
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:15,600
You need to control all those environments and none of that was controlled there.

934
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:17,960
Is that the reason why people got sick?

935
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,040
Well, yeah, probably a lot of it.

936
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:24,800
I mean, you're ingesting those toxins on food.

937
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:27,520
You're breathing it in, you're inhaling it.

938
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:33,880
So we got the mask for guys, but it was hot and guys didn't want to wear them and a lot

939
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:36,560
of issues.

940
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,560
So I don't know, we're going for days.

941
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:40,960
Yeah, no, but thank you though.

942
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:45,600
Because I mean, this is a way for people, whether they're in rural New Zealand somewhere

943
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:47,680
or in the city itself to actually learn.

944
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:53,400
I think this is what's so great about these conversations is the podcast medium allows

945
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:54,400
everyone around the world to listen.

946
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,320
If they got a wifi connection, they happen to hit play on this episode, they're going

947
01:03:57,320 --> 01:03:58,320
to learn some things.

948
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:02,280
And when you talked about the food, whether it was actually the disease side within the

949
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:06,280
buildings or serving it on the streets, I mean, it's all coming from good intentions,

950
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:07,560
but these aren't things that you think about.

951
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:08,560
I wouldn't think about it.

952
01:04:08,560 --> 01:04:09,560
So I appreciate it.

953
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:10,560
Yeah.

954
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,120
And that's the biggest thing is like, right?

955
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:19,320
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction and we really have to in the emergency management

956
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:26,960
space, disaster management, or even just as a first responder, not in a management position,

957
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:31,840
you need to look at those things and think about what is it that I'm doing and what are

958
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:34,280
the potential outcomes for that, right?

959
01:04:34,280 --> 01:04:37,960
I mean, I'm not talking about going into a burning building or whatever.

960
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:40,600
We know what those are and we weigh those consequences, right?

961
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:48,440
We look at smoke conditions, we look at, is it blowing through the roof?

962
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:49,440
Is it already venting?

963
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:52,320
Is it part of the building collapsed?

964
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,340
We make all of those judgments, right?

965
01:04:54,340 --> 01:04:58,800
And we make our assessment to go in and we look for those danger signs.

966
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:02,600
But in bigger things like this, we really have to look at the bigger picture as well,

967
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:03,600
right?

968
01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:10,920
What are the outcomes and what are the consequences of our decisions and making this, right?

969
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:13,440
So just, you know.

970
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:14,440
Absolutely.

971
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:16,240
Well, that was 9-11.

972
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:20,500
So prior to the pandemic, now you're wearing a fire uniform.

973
01:05:20,500 --> 01:05:23,200
What again was some of the career calls in your career?

974
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:33,520
Well, I remember coming back from 9-11, you know, and then we had the whole, you know,

975
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:39,240
we had the whole issue with anthrax, you know.

976
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:41,960
Then I was at the Hazmat Task Force.

977
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:48,080
You know, I remember having, I mean, we were anthrax, that was a big thing constantly,

978
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:49,080
right?

979
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:50,800
Oh my God, everywhere.

980
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:57,480
So we had to deal with that, you know.

981
01:05:57,480 --> 01:06:01,560
So that was kind of interesting.

982
01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:11,000
Then fast forward again, and I went to work in arson, counterterrorism, you know, lots

983
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:12,000
of training in that.

984
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:13,000
It was great.

985
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:18,220
You know, I've been to bomb school, I've been to homicide school, I've done, my resume

986
01:06:18,220 --> 01:06:20,960
is pretty extensive.

987
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:24,960
So it was great getting to learn, you know, all of these different things and being able

988
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:29,800
to put all these pieces together.

989
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:34,880
And in, God, what year, I'm trying to think of what year it was now.

990
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:45,040
The years, forget some of those, somewhere around 2011 or 12 when I was there in arson.

991
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:54,680
New Year's Eve, I made an arrest for a gentleman who started, if I remember correctly, I think

992
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:56,800
it was five fires.

993
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:06,000
And young kid, 18 years old, 19 years old or whatever, went on a drinking bender, got

994
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:10,000
pissed off, walked through the city, starting fires.

995
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:16,180
One of the fires was, we have these apartment complexes, you know, this was like a three-story

996
01:07:16,180 --> 01:07:21,660
garden style apartment and the parking, it was a carport and it went down underneath

997
01:07:21,660 --> 01:07:23,100
the ground level units.

998
01:07:23,100 --> 01:07:31,960
So they were open facing the street, not closed with the garage door, but they were subterranean.

999
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:42,160
So this kid bought a fire starter, like a, you know, a Duraflame log type of thing and

1000
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:49,880
put it underneath one of the front end driver's end, if I remember right, of the car and lit

1001
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:50,880
it.

1002
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:54,720
Eventually the car caught on fire, caught the cabinets on fire above it, all the other

1003
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:57,400
cars and then it went up into the apartments.

1004
01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:59,120
And this is like two o'clock in the morning.

1005
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:02,320
So you know, you've got people asleep, so on and so forth.

1006
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:12,160
Luckily no one died, but ended up catching him, got him to confess and you know, he went

1007
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:13,240
to jail.

1008
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:20,240
So I went home, you know, I had been on for multiple days, had to write the report to

1009
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:23,160
go to the DA, you know, so that he could be arraigned.

1010
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:25,600
You got 48 hours to do that.

1011
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:30,440
And then, you know, I shut my phone off because I was wiped out.

1012
01:08:30,440 --> 01:08:37,200
Wake up the next, my wife wakes me up and she's like, Hey, your phone's blown up.

1013
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:39,400
You need to answer.

1014
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:42,700
So I answer it and they're like, you got to come back to work.

1015
01:08:42,700 --> 01:08:52,960
We had somebody freaking go out and light, you know, 30 fires last night and they're

1016
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:57,560
matching the MO of your fire.

1017
01:08:57,560 --> 01:08:58,560
What?

1018
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:01,120
You know, you're asleep, you're groggy.

1019
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:02,120
Okay, great.

1020
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:08,400
So I drive back to work and I spent the next couple of days there and it turned out he

1021
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:14,320
was, I cannot remember this guy's name, but he was the largest serial arsonist in the

1022
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:15,480
history of Los Angeles.

1023
01:09:15,480 --> 01:09:18,920
He lit over a hundred and 110 fires.

1024
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:21,400
I think in two nights it was.

1025
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:24,860
It's pretty wild chasing this guy down.

1026
01:09:24,860 --> 01:09:33,160
You know, we thought originally one of the initial things was that it was his buddies,

1027
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:34,960
the guy that I arrested.

1028
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:43,140
His buddies went and set the same type of fire, you know, to say, look, it wasn't this

1029
01:09:43,140 --> 01:09:46,920
guy who did this.

1030
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:49,560
It was someone else so that they could get him out of jail.

1031
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:53,760
Well, you know, write search warrants, do all that stuff.

1032
01:09:53,760 --> 01:10:01,220
Long story short, it turns out the guy lived behind the arsonist, lived behind where he

1033
01:10:01,220 --> 01:10:06,000
set that fire in that apartment complex and that gave him the idea.

1034
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:11,040
And it turned out that he was in court the day before his mom was being deported for,

1035
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:15,160
I believe it was prostitution.

1036
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:19,960
And he got pissed, walked out of the court and said, I'm going to burn the fucking city

1037
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:24,920
down paraphrasing, but I'm pretty sure that's what it was.

1038
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:31,240
And then that night he started burning the city down and, you know, like I said, lit

1039
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:34,200
110 fires or something.

1040
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:38,360
So I mean, that's a lot of fires to be chasing around the city, you know, takes a lot of

1041
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:39,360
units.

1042
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:41,040
Yeah, it's a lot of accelerants too.

1043
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:43,680
Was he carrying like a gas truck behind him or something?

1044
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:50,720
No, man, literally he was using those fire logs, those fire starters and just strategically

1045
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:55,760
placing them underneath the car, you know, and they get hot enough and it would catch

1046
01:10:55,760 --> 01:11:00,720
and you know, and then you got the magnesium usually in that area of the car right there

1047
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,120
and then that gets super heated.

1048
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:05,120
And it was wild.

1049
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:06,960
It was one wild ride.

1050
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:07,960
That's for sure.

1051
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:12,160
So with that apartment fire, when I was at Anaheim, I remember this clearly, I was on

1052
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:16,240
an engine and we got banged out to a car fire and we were like, all right, you know, we

1053
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:17,240
always took it seriously.

1054
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:18,240
It was a good department.

1055
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:21,000
They trained us well, so we were all bunkered up.

1056
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:25,480
But actually, when we got there, it was not subterranean, but the same exact layout.

1057
01:11:25,480 --> 01:11:30,960
It was actually, I think there was four, four or five cars in a carport and then it was

1058
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:33,280
a, I think it was a one story.

1059
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:35,940
So above that was then a wood frame apartment complex.

1060
01:11:35,940 --> 01:11:39,080
You got all these fire and all every single car was fully involved.

1061
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:40,080
You're raging fire.

1062
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:43,000
Then you've got, you know, apartments and they give us either one or two floors.

1063
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:44,000
Yeah.

1064
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:48,400
And it's terrifying because you've got an absolute, you know, inferno below.

1065
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:51,720
You've only got wood steps for these people to escape.

1066
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:55,160
And like you said, if they're asleep, they're literally going to cook to death above you.

1067
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:59,840
So I mean, that layout is always terrifying to me knowing, especially now with these electric

1068
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:05,820
cars and how they spontaneously combust that you could lose an entire row of families without

1069
01:12:05,820 --> 01:12:07,640
them even ever waking up.

1070
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:08,640
Yeah.

1071
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:09,640
Yeah.

1072
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:13,960
You know, and yeah, absolutely.

1073
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:17,120
We could run all the scenarios all day long, but yeah, that's one of the worst ways, you

1074
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:21,120
know, I think those are a horrible design period.

1075
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:22,880
Yeah, absolutely.

1076
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:27,840
So any other career calls prior to 2020 and we'll get into the, the, the event that shut

1077
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:29,960
down the world.

1078
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:30,960
Yeah.

1079
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:39,680
I mean, we've had trained derailments, you know, all kinds of stuff.

1080
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:41,160
Those are, those are some pretty good ones though.

1081
01:12:41,160 --> 01:12:42,720
I think, you know, I don't know.

1082
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:45,160
It just all kind of blurs together.

1083
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:52,360
You know, one of the things that always blows me away is, and is, you know, you go out or

1084
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:56,320
whatever and you're your friends who are not in the fire service or in a first responder

1085
01:12:56,320 --> 01:13:00,040
are like, tell me about the worst call you ever had.

1086
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:01,240
Tell me about the gnarliest call.

1087
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:10,080
And it's like, you want me to relive one of the worst things I've ever seen for your enjoyment.

1088
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:17,920
And that's not what I'm going with you, but that popped into my head, you know, as like,

1089
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:21,280
unless you've been there, it doesn't matter what I tell you, you're never going to grasp

1090
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:31,240
the concept or the reality of how shitty that was, you know, what we see too is, is we go

1091
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:32,240
and we deal with it, right?

1092
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:35,560
We shut it off while we're there because we have to function, right?

1093
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:40,600
And there are those calls that catch you off guard, you're like, oh, but you still right

1094
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:42,800
into work mode, right?

1095
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:48,960
It's not until afterwards, you know, that either A, you try and process it or B, you

1096
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:53,760
just box it up and put it away and party on Garth, you know, whatever.

1097
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:57,200
Oh, that was a sick call, bro.

1098
01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:00,160
Yeah, it was a sick call.

1099
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:02,920
So yeah, you know, I don't know.

1100
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:10,840
I just, it's crazy when you think about how many calls you run in that length of a career,

1101
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:14,280
you know, in a big city.

1102
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:22,080
I mean, when I was put off for COVID, you know, because I came back from being sick,

1103
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:25,160
my doctor wouldn't let me go on the field anymore.

1104
01:14:25,160 --> 01:14:30,120
I couldn't go into an IDLH because of immune issues, autoimmune issues and stuff.

1105
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:38,760
And so, I went to our dispatch center and we have our own, our dispatchers are sworn

1106
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:39,760
members.

1107
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:45,160
It's a place to go if you've been broken, you know, or you want to be a dispatcher for

1108
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:52,720
a couple of years, it's great because it gives you the ability to see everything from all

1109
01:14:52,720 --> 01:14:54,880
sides.

1110
01:14:54,880 --> 01:15:01,760
And in reality, like on structure fires and stuff, we run those for the chief, you know,

1111
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:06,200
we're an extra set of ears, we're listening to everything, we're prompting if they miss

1112
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:10,800
something, you know, if they need resources, we're telling them, you know, you've got 15

1113
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:14,520
minutes on your instant clock, whatever it is, there's a lot of things happening behind

1114
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:20,000
the scenes that people don't grasp if you've never been in that position.

1115
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:25,560
So I think, you know, that was a great experience as well, you know, just because you're looking

1116
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:30,160
at it from a different lens.

1117
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:31,160
So yeah.

1118
01:15:31,160 --> 01:15:36,200
Well, there's a lot of them and us when it comes to dispatch and whoever's on the call,

1119
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:40,480
you know, and then we all know exactly, you know, what that means and we've experienced

1120
01:15:40,480 --> 01:15:41,480
it.

1121
01:15:41,480 --> 01:15:45,960
But, you know, I remember, for example, going on a hemorrhage once and we got there and

1122
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:48,520
it was, there was a dead guy with a gun next to him.

1123
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:53,400
He was hemorrhaging, but it was ultimately a self-inflicted gunshot boom, but, you know,

1124
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:57,840
very different call once you come through, but all the dispatcher has is what they are

1125
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:00,320
told by whoever picks up the phone.

1126
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:02,120
And I've had a few dispatchers on here.

1127
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:04,480
One of the ones that really stands out though is Beth Bowersox.

1128
01:16:04,480 --> 01:16:09,520
She was a dispatcher, she was from Paradise and she was on call that day during the Paradise

1129
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:10,520
fire.

1130
01:16:10,520 --> 01:16:15,040
So these poor men and women, firstly, they, you know, they work shift work like us, but

1131
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:19,400
they don't get to have a physical exertion to offload the stress.

1132
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:23,640
They sit in a chair in the dark for 12 hours at a time, maybe never seeing the sun, depending

1133
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:27,660
on their shifts, and then have to have this stress with no way of offloading it.

1134
01:16:27,660 --> 01:16:32,200
But to hear families screaming saying, please help me right before they're burned over by

1135
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:33,200
a wildfire.

1136
01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:34,840
I mean, it's brutal.

1137
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:38,480
So I think it's, it's really interesting and I'd love to hear your kind of your take on

1138
01:16:38,480 --> 01:16:43,880
the perspective that you did get when you hear voices from dispatch, because it's so

1139
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:47,600
easy to just blame them for stuff and think that they're vindictive or whatever.

1140
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:50,040
And sometimes they are, they're having a bad day too, let's be honest.

1141
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:54,480
But you know, most of the time it's a, it's a team effort, but we're so disconnected.

1142
01:16:54,480 --> 01:16:59,040
It's just simply a voice on a radio, but there's often a lot of animosity between the two.

1143
01:16:59,040 --> 01:17:00,040
Yeah, I remember.

1144
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:07,240
I mean, for me being in the field, you know, it was always, um, I never, you know, I'd

1145
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:08,440
just go to the address.

1146
01:17:08,440 --> 01:17:11,680
I'd look at the call and be like, yeah, like you said, hemorrhage.

1147
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:12,680
Okay, great.

1148
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:13,680
Whatever.

1149
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:18,480
And when I got there, I would assess the situation and be like, how did they get this?

1150
01:17:18,480 --> 01:17:20,960
You know, I'm having them the whole time.

1151
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:28,640
Then you get down there and you're like, yeah, okay, now I get it.

1152
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:33,680
But you know, and unfortunately, like, I don't know whether it's fortunate or unfortunate,

1153
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:38,520
you know, guys still always do the same thing.

1154
01:17:38,520 --> 01:17:40,120
You have the control, you have the power.

1155
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:41,760
Well, no, you don't.

1156
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:45,840
Because you know, there's three captains sitting up on a bridge.

1157
01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:50,440
I mean, our, our dispatch center looks like NASA control center.

1158
01:17:50,440 --> 01:17:51,920
It's unreal.

1159
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:59,760
I mean, each dispatcher has six computer screens in front of him.

1160
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:00,960
He's got a 10 key.

1161
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:06,040
He's got one, two, three or four keyboards.

1162
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:14,720
He's got a headset on whether he's taking calls or he's dispatching.

1163
01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:18,480
And you got, you know, all the stuff going on, right?

1164
01:18:18,480 --> 01:18:23,640
And you're trying to garner information from somebody who, whether it's on the other end

1165
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:31,040
that they're, you know, the end of the world.com truly or, you know, their toilets flooding

1166
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:38,400
or they stubbed their toe, you know, or a guy trapped in an elevator and he's MF with

1167
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:42,240
a mental health issue and a substance abuse issue going on at the same time, right?

1168
01:18:42,240 --> 01:18:48,720
So, I mean, it's so wide and varied and our hands truly as a dispatcher, you're very tied

1169
01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:57,480
because at least with LA city, you know, they monitor all your keystrokes.

1170
01:18:57,480 --> 01:19:02,560
So everything you typed in, all the calls are recorded.

1171
01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:07,880
They have a QI, you know, system that they go back and they review all the calls.

1172
01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:14,100
Every single cardiac arrest is critiqued and gone over as well because the head doctor,

1173
01:19:14,100 --> 01:19:20,600
you know, for the city reviews all of those to see how we can get better, you know, outcomes

1174
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:22,320
and so on and so forth.

1175
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:29,120
So there's so many factors and you're under a microscope and you do something wrong or

1176
01:19:29,120 --> 01:19:37,280
what they feel is wrong or you didn't dispatch appropriately, you know, they come after you.

1177
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:43,760
You get put into the system and they'll pull you in for remediation and if you don't, you

1178
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:47,000
know, get better or whatever, you continue to have issues, then they boot you out of

1179
01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:50,040
there and yeah, I mean, that's normal, right?

1180
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:51,900
There has to be checks and balances.

1181
01:19:51,900 --> 01:19:56,960
But for the guys in the field, they don't grasp the concept that everything you do is

1182
01:19:56,960 --> 01:20:03,760
not like being in the field where, you know, if you took your axe to the door before you

1183
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:06,680
turned the doorknob and checked it, right?

1184
01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:08,000
It's not the end of the world.

1185
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:09,520
The building was burning down.

1186
01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:11,520
You just took the harder way, right?

1187
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:18,960
Or whatever it is, you're not scrutinized like that to that extent.

1188
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:23,880
Here they really have the, you know, because a captain has, you know, four guys that he's

1189
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:25,400
in charge of, right?

1190
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:29,960
Including himself and there's a lot going on here.

1191
01:20:29,960 --> 01:20:33,320
You know, everything's recorded, everything's keylogged, so on and so forth.

1192
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:39,680
So you're really under that scrutiny and if you guys don't want to get hammered, you know,

1193
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:40,680
it's just easier.

1194
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:46,480
Follow the script or, you know, send, press send, get somebody there.

1195
01:20:46,480 --> 01:20:48,440
At least you got somebody there.

1196
01:20:48,440 --> 01:20:49,440
So yeah.

1197
01:20:49,440 --> 01:20:57,120
But while we're on the dispatch conversation, we were talking about the workload.

1198
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:01,400
One of the most amazing innovations that I've seen, and I would love to get a company on

1199
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:06,160
here as a sponsor so we can really, really share this message, but I think a lot of them

1200
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:13,040
are still kind of grassroots operations, but the 911 telehealth immersion now.

1201
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:17,040
So you know, the, the obviously the Omega course, but then the Alpha and maybe even

1202
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:22,520
some of the Bravo depending, you know, that's a large portion of what we run on, you know,

1203
01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:25,000
the real, real true 911 emergencies.

1204
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:28,280
I think most of us would agree are probably a quarter of the calls that we get.

1205
01:21:28,280 --> 01:21:33,640
The rest are, you know, a number of things from loneliness to drug seeking and, you know,

1206
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:35,920
and just, just mania in general.

1207
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:40,920
And so you call 911 and the dispatcher immediately figures out, okay, what level is this?

1208
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:43,880
All right, we're, we're at a very low level.

1209
01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:46,240
You know, well, we've got two options for you.

1210
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:52,440
We can send out, you know, a rescue paramedics to your house, or we can get you into a zoom

1211
01:21:52,440 --> 01:21:56,280
call, you know, video conference with an ER physician, which one would you prefer?

1212
01:21:56,280 --> 01:21:58,560
Oh, well, yeah, I'll talk to a doctor.

1213
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:01,320
They then, you know, you tag them off and obviously they always have the ability to

1214
01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:05,360
come back to you if they deem that they want to go after all, but now they talk to the

1215
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:10,760
doctor and that tummy ache or let me use a better example, you know, the, the kid with

1216
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:14,200
the 102 fever that's thrown up once, but it's a new parent and they're terrified they're

1217
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:19,360
going to die of dehydration, you know, or the rolled ankle or, oh, my, my, you know,

1218
01:22:19,360 --> 01:22:24,120
blood pressure meds have expired or whatever it is, they're able to mitigate that.

1219
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:28,700
And they probably trust that person as much, if not more than, than a paramedic.

1220
01:22:28,700 --> 01:22:34,400
So then you've eliminated a bed being taken up in an ER, you've stopped that patient,

1221
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:38,740
you know, being charged thousands of dollars by going into that ER and you've given the

1222
01:22:38,740 --> 01:22:40,580
crew one less call to run.

1223
01:22:40,580 --> 01:22:41,580
So it's like a win, win, win.

1224
01:22:41,580 --> 01:22:45,520
And it doesn't even cost the fire department anything because this company bills the health

1225
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:49,520
insurance, you know, a much smaller bill than an ER as it would be.

1226
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:54,480
So that to me is an incredible idea, but, and it's one good thing that came out of COVID

1227
01:22:54,480 --> 01:22:57,380
because they cut a lot of the red tape around telemedicine.

1228
01:22:57,380 --> 01:23:03,360
So I would love to see that become, you know, a thing in all 911 is if it's not emergency,

1229
01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:07,660
then send it to a trained professional who can mitigate that virtually.

1230
01:23:07,660 --> 01:23:09,800
And so we're not running our people into the ground.

1231
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:12,200
Yeah, we started that.

1232
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:17,200
Well, I don't say we started it.

1233
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:24,240
I know there's companies doing it, but during COVID LA city actually implemented telehealth,

1234
01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:32,040
you know, and we hired PAs to come in, you know, give them abbreviated course.

1235
01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:40,200
And then basically they trained the dispatchers that if you had a certain level call, right,

1236
01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:45,840
and it met this criteria, then if they were working that day again, you know, they get

1237
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:48,520
days off.

1238
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:50,840
We're not in that space.

1239
01:23:50,840 --> 01:24:04,320
But the idea was there definitely to send that over to them, you know, to get that handled.

1240
01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:07,960
And then if they couldn't get it handled on their end, then they would end up sending

1241
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:14,440
it back to us and we would dispatch out, you know, a BLS resource or whatever to handle

1242
01:24:14,440 --> 01:24:15,840
that.

1243
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:17,840
I think in theory it's good.

1244
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:25,000
I don't necessarily know that our protocol was set up correct, but I think it's a step

1245
01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:27,040
in the right direction.

1246
01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:32,240
You know, it's better than continuing to send resources, you know, and then they've got

1247
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:35,840
mental health fans and all kinds of things.

1248
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:38,800
But again, then we've seen issues with that.

1249
01:24:38,800 --> 01:24:40,280
So I don't know.

1250
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:42,640
There's a lot there.

1251
01:24:42,640 --> 01:24:43,640
Yeah.

1252
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:45,480
Like you said, the potential is there.

1253
01:24:45,480 --> 01:24:46,480
Absolutely.

1254
01:24:46,480 --> 01:24:49,800
We need the right people to create it the right way so that we're not throwing it all

1255
01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:53,520
together at the beginning of a national emergency.

1256
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:55,520
Yeah, absolutely.

1257
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:57,640
It has to start somewhere, you know.

1258
01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:03,760
So if that's the case, then, you know, start doing something, see what doesn't work and

1259
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:06,080
start tweaking the system, right?

1260
01:25:06,080 --> 01:25:11,640
But again, then you get into the space where, you know, your dispatchers don't want to send

1261
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:14,480
someone over to telehealth.

1262
01:25:14,480 --> 01:25:18,400
Let's just send an 800 because I don't want to lose my job.

1263
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:19,400
I don't know.

1264
01:25:19,400 --> 01:25:24,360
There's all this round robin that goes through, you know, everybody's like protected their

1265
01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:26,440
space but okay, great.

1266
01:25:26,440 --> 01:25:28,040
Guys are complaining in the field, they're getting hammered.

1267
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:29,960
Why are you sending on this?

1268
01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:31,080
Here's a person right here to help.

1269
01:25:31,080 --> 01:25:32,600
So send them to that.

1270
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:34,080
I agree 100%.

1271
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:35,680
Yeah, absolutely.

1272
01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:43,920
Well, speaking of that then, so I had Bo Porter on one of your LA FD brothers, amazing conversation,

1273
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:48,700
but it was great because he talked about in his first year where he worked, they did see,

1274
01:25:48,700 --> 01:25:53,800
you know, a lot of the deaths and issues when it came to COVID when it first hit.

1275
01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:55,440
This is an important part of the conversation.

1276
01:25:55,440 --> 01:26:00,120
There's some people in, you know, rural, wherever that saw zero, you know, this is why I think

1277
01:26:00,120 --> 01:26:04,960
there's a bit of to and froing when it comes to the individual experience.

1278
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:09,540
Through your lens in the station where you were assigned, walk me through the beginning

1279
01:26:09,540 --> 01:26:11,740
of the pandemic.

1280
01:26:11,740 --> 01:26:21,280
So when all this happened, you know, with COVID and so on and so forth, I was actually

1281
01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:23,960
in dispatch.

1282
01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:25,960
I was a dispatcher.

1283
01:26:25,960 --> 01:26:35,320
Well, actually when COVID started, I had actually had just come back to work September of 19.

1284
01:26:35,320 --> 01:26:41,440
So then January 20 is when that all started and I was working in our fire communications

1285
01:26:41,440 --> 01:26:46,320
division dealing with radios and comms and stuff like that, waiting to go into our dispatch

1286
01:26:46,320 --> 01:26:47,320
center.

1287
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:58,160
So anyway, fast forward through that, you know, basically they, the city, well, let's

1288
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:03,040
see, when did, what is it, Operation Warp Speed?

1289
01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:08,800
They offered, you know, the shots to the elderly and first responders first, right?

1290
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:13,360
So I think that was about, what was that?

1291
01:27:13,360 --> 01:27:20,480
2020 December sometime, I think is when they first started offering those.

1292
01:27:20,480 --> 01:27:25,240
And me, the way my brain operates, you know, I look at a lot of different factors.

1293
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:36,320
I did my research and I knew that that wasn't something that I was comfortable with.

1294
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:48,440
So fast forward into 2021, we, in August, you know, we had heard, prior to August, we

1295
01:27:48,440 --> 01:27:53,880
had heard rumblings that, you know, they were going to start mandating this shot.

1296
01:27:53,880 --> 01:27:56,800
And I'm like, wait a minute, we've had a choice this whole time.

1297
01:27:56,800 --> 01:27:59,320
Now why all of a sudden is this being mandated?

1298
01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:00,320
Something's not right here.

1299
01:28:00,320 --> 01:28:09,520
You know, we don't force people to take medical treatment against their will.

1300
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:16,600
So me and a buddy started talking about what we would do if that came into effect.

1301
01:28:16,600 --> 01:28:20,960
And we kind of laid out a plan.

1302
01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:25,040
And then it happened.

1303
01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:32,760
They had a union meeting and in that union meeting, they said that, you know, there's

1304
01:28:32,760 --> 01:28:39,460
nothing that they could do that, you know, the city, you know, we've been in negotiations

1305
01:28:39,460 --> 01:28:44,040
with the city meeting confer and, you know, we're still at the table.

1306
01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:45,880
And so that went back and forth.

1307
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,400
And I basically, you know, I mean, I sat there throughout the whole time.

1308
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:55,160
I came with like eight pages of notes and all the stats and things that I was going

1309
01:28:55,160 --> 01:29:00,680
to talk about and trying to figure out when I was going to speak and what I was going

1310
01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:01,960
to say.

1311
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:04,040
And I was just listening to everybody.

1312
01:29:04,040 --> 01:29:12,200
And man, the one thing that really stood out to me was the amount of fear in the room,

1313
01:29:12,200 --> 01:29:14,840
you know.

1314
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:17,840
Guys were like, you know, I have a family.

1315
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:21,120
I've got kids I got to take care of, you know, blah, blah, blah.

1316
01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:22,920
All the main things, right.

1317
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:25,640
And they're like, I can't afford not to take this.

1318
01:29:25,640 --> 01:29:30,560
I have to do, you know, all of these things going around.

1319
01:29:30,560 --> 01:29:33,440
And I'm like, wow, this is horrible.

1320
01:29:33,440 --> 01:29:37,200
There's literally nobody knows what to do.

1321
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:38,920
And it was bizarre.

1322
01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:43,360
So I finally got to the point where I'm like, I can't handle this anymore.

1323
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:44,980
It's terrifying.

1324
01:29:44,980 --> 01:29:51,040
So I stood up and just started talking and I never touched those notes.

1325
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:52,720
They never came into play.

1326
01:29:52,720 --> 01:30:09,400
And I felt like, I don't know, like this information came from another source, like divinely inspired

1327
01:30:09,400 --> 01:30:13,800
and really, you know, focusing on the fact that everyone was terrified.

1328
01:30:13,800 --> 01:30:15,060
They didn't know what to do.

1329
01:30:15,060 --> 01:30:17,320
It's like, nobody wanted to step up and lead.

1330
01:30:17,320 --> 01:30:19,920
Nobody wanted to be that guy.

1331
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:22,300
Nobody really, there's no roadmap for this.

1332
01:30:22,300 --> 01:30:25,300
Nobody seen anything like this before, right.

1333
01:30:25,300 --> 01:30:29,720
So I think from that standpoint, the fear was just tremendous.

1334
01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:33,680
How do you, this is what we do is we solve problems, right.

1335
01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:38,160
And now we don't know what to do and we're the providers and I can't step out of that

1336
01:30:38,160 --> 01:30:39,160
role.

1337
01:30:39,160 --> 01:30:42,680
So I'm going to do whatever it takes, right, to be in that.

1338
01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:43,680
And that's what I saw.

1339
01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:49,880
And so I basically just stood up and talked to the union, the union president, everybody.

1340
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:53,680
And I was like, look, this is, there's more at stake here.

1341
01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:58,440
You know, yeah, our privacy is being violated.

1342
01:30:58,440 --> 01:31:05,800
Our body autonomy, you know, these are working conditions.

1343
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:06,800
We have contracts.

1344
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:08,080
There's a lot of things at play here.

1345
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:12,880
I said, but in reality I was born free, right.

1346
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:22,880
I'm a sovereign individual, human being, and my rights are given to me at birth by God.

1347
01:31:22,880 --> 01:31:25,200
And I have the right to protect myself.

1348
01:31:25,200 --> 01:31:30,960
It gives me discernment, free will to do the things that I think that are right for me.

1349
01:31:30,960 --> 01:31:32,000
And this is not right.

1350
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:38,440
This is not okay for the city, the union, the federal government, anyone to be telling

1351
01:31:38,440 --> 01:31:44,880
me what it is I have to put into my body.

1352
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:50,240
And the thing that people didn't grasp the concept, you know, initially I think is that

1353
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:56,720
we're given those rights by God at birth and those rights are enshrined, you know, there's

1354
01:31:56,720 --> 01:32:00,680
documents, the founding documents, Declaration of Independence, the constitution and the

1355
01:32:00,680 --> 01:32:08,520
Bill of Rights, those limit the powers of the government and it protects our sovereign

1356
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:12,480
right to make decisions for ourselves, right.

1357
01:32:12,480 --> 01:32:19,880
We elect these officials to govern, not rule us, and those documents protect those God-given

1358
01:32:19,880 --> 01:32:21,220
rights.

1359
01:32:21,220 --> 01:32:26,380
And so, you know, I basically just said, look, this is the line in the sand that I'm not

1360
01:32:26,380 --> 01:32:28,880
willing to step over and cross.

1361
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:30,800
You're not going to force me.

1362
01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:35,120
And if it means that this has to go to the end and the city decides that they're going

1363
01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:42,520
to terminate me over this, then that's what will be because I will not capitulate to this

1364
01:32:42,520 --> 01:32:43,980
bullshit.

1365
01:32:43,980 --> 01:32:51,720
This is wrong on so many levels and I'm not going to kiss a ring and be held a slave,

1366
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:56,400
you know, over a paycheck.

1367
01:32:56,400 --> 01:33:03,920
And then, you know, afterwards I was like, whoa, what was that all about?

1368
01:33:03,920 --> 01:33:11,040
I know what it was about, but I think it was really kind of just like, hmm, people need

1369
01:33:11,040 --> 01:33:13,040
to understand that there's more here.

1370
01:33:13,040 --> 01:33:15,160
And so, you know, I said, look, I'm willing to fight this.

1371
01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:21,320
I don't know how or what, but anybody who wants to, you know, what I see in this room

1372
01:33:21,320 --> 01:33:28,400
is everybody feels like they're on an island, right, that they're a lone wolf, that there's

1373
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:30,200
nobody there for them.

1374
01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:36,680
And in reality, they're sitting there giving lip service, you know, like this, but they

1375
01:33:36,680 --> 01:33:40,560
proved that they didn't do anything throughout this.

1376
01:33:40,560 --> 01:33:47,160
And so, after that, you know, I had a conversation with my buddy.

1377
01:33:47,160 --> 01:33:50,600
I said, well, this is how it went.

1378
01:33:50,600 --> 01:33:52,360
But we need to do something.

1379
01:33:52,360 --> 01:33:55,280
And you know, so we had some telegram channels and we had some other stuff.

1380
01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:59,600
We're communicating with people in the department and, you know, the members who weren't down

1381
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:01,240
with this.

1382
01:34:01,240 --> 01:34:04,600
And then we put it out there, hey, we're going to start this.

1383
01:34:04,600 --> 01:34:07,480
We're going to do something, anybody who wants to be involved.

1384
01:34:07,480 --> 01:34:15,080
And so, then we got eight other people that reached out and we basically said, okay, what

1385
01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:16,080
do we need to do?

1386
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:20,160
So, we created a 501C3.

1387
01:34:20,160 --> 01:34:26,000
You know, that was our board of directors and we created Firefighters for Freedom.

1388
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:34,640
And then we found an attorney, you know, and we got attorneys on board.

1389
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:39,680
We initially had one attorney and then that led into, you know, three other attorneys,

1390
01:34:39,680 --> 01:34:45,080
one of which was, you know, Kennedy.

1391
01:34:45,080 --> 01:34:49,160
And we just started pushing back.

1392
01:34:49,160 --> 01:34:53,840
You know, we started an Instagram channel and then that blew up as our social media.

1393
01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:57,600
I mean, you know, over 50,000 people on that.

1394
01:34:57,600 --> 01:35:01,840
And we really held the city to task.

1395
01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:07,480
You know, we really pushed, asked questions, pointed out the hypocrisy, just really started

1396
01:35:07,480 --> 01:35:15,760
laying down truth, you know, and trying to expose the lies.

1397
01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:23,920
And then, so, you know, so all of that was happening and, you know, I was still working.

1398
01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:30,840
And so, you know, that was Mr. Toad's wild ride, holy mackerel, fast and furious.

1399
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:34,320
I mean, you know, on days that I wasn't at work, it was 16 hour days.

1400
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:42,000
I mean, I'd get, I mean, I'd be on the phone all day long and, you know, five, six, 700

1401
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:45,680
texts a day at least, you know, and you're just, it's just nonstop.

1402
01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:50,680
Trying to help people through that process on, you know, what to do, what their rights

1403
01:35:50,680 --> 01:35:51,960
were.

1404
01:35:51,960 --> 01:35:56,680
You know, here in California, we have the firefighter bill of rights.

1405
01:35:56,680 --> 01:36:02,640
You know, we have Skelly, which is a Supreme Court ruling.

1406
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:06,160
It says you have a property right to your job.

1407
01:36:06,160 --> 01:36:11,320
You know, again, F for firefighter bill of rights, that's your due process.

1408
01:36:11,320 --> 01:36:16,080
That took 20 years to get put into place.

1409
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:20,680
So there was a lot of things that were happening, you know, and things that they were doing.

1410
01:36:20,680 --> 01:36:27,880
And, you know, then we filed suit on September 17th, which actually turns out to be the day

1411
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:35,640
that the constitution was signed, ratified.

1412
01:36:35,640 --> 01:36:48,120
And then we started down that process of dealing with, you know, the court system.

1413
01:36:48,120 --> 01:36:55,040
So originally the city put the mandate into place and said, you know, you had until October

1414
01:36:55,040 --> 01:37:03,800
20th of 21 to be in compliance or you would be put off duty, disciplinary action, pending

1415
01:37:03,800 --> 01:37:04,800
termination.

1416
01:37:04,800 --> 01:37:10,800
And so then we held a small rally.

1417
01:37:10,800 --> 01:37:20,040
Then we held a big rally on the day of, I think it was, I'd have to go back and look,

1418
01:37:20,040 --> 01:37:27,880
of that on the 20th of October with 10,000 people.

1419
01:37:27,880 --> 01:37:33,880
You know, we had a lot of big speakers, you know, America's frontline doctors, you know,

1420
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:41,320
exec and just a lot of people came out and spoke at that rally in support of freedom

1421
01:37:41,320 --> 01:37:47,480
and, you know, medical freedom, body autonomy, privacy rights, all of that stuff.

1422
01:37:47,480 --> 01:37:51,320
And that was really the beginning of, you know, all of that.

1423
01:37:51,320 --> 01:37:53,560
We pushed really hard.

1424
01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:58,160
And so we were supposed to be terminated, you know, put off on the 20th and then the

1425
01:37:58,160 --> 01:38:01,800
20th came and went and that didn't happen.

1426
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:05,600
And one of the reasons they said was, you know, because you're an imminent threat to

1427
01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:08,640
the public and the workforce.

1428
01:38:08,640 --> 01:38:13,800
Well then they extended that date out to December 18th of 2021.

1429
01:38:13,800 --> 01:38:21,040
And it's like, wait a minute, if we're an imminent threat to the public and the workforce,

1430
01:38:21,040 --> 01:38:22,800
why am I still at work?

1431
01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:25,000
Why am I still working?

1432
01:38:25,000 --> 01:38:28,740
You know, no answers.

1433
01:38:28,740 --> 01:38:41,800
So we continued through the court system and we got a radical judge who was very biased

1434
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:43,960
throughout the whole process.

1435
01:38:43,960 --> 01:38:54,400
He denied us at every step of the way and then dismissed our case on a demurrer, which

1436
01:38:54,400 --> 01:38:57,280
you can't do.

1437
01:38:57,280 --> 01:39:00,720
He stated that we had no legal standing.

1438
01:39:00,720 --> 01:39:07,120
So which is hilarious because in the state of California, you know, legal standing is

1439
01:39:07,120 --> 01:39:12,800
almost, I mean, if you have a pulse rate and you can breathe, you have legal standing.

1440
01:39:12,800 --> 01:39:15,000
But we had plenty of legal standing.

1441
01:39:15,000 --> 01:39:22,680
So anyway, our case got kicked out and then we went to the appellate court in April of

1442
01:39:22,680 --> 01:39:28,280
this year and we won in the appellate court.

1443
01:39:28,280 --> 01:39:31,520
So it had to go back to the superior court.

1444
01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:40,480
And then we had a hearing, I think it was December 1st or first week in December of

1445
01:39:40,480 --> 01:39:42,560
this year in front of the judge.

1446
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:52,280
She heard it and basically set a trial date for February of 2025.

1447
01:39:52,280 --> 01:39:57,820
So just around the corner.

1448
01:39:57,820 --> 01:40:04,640
So that's where that legal case is sitting right now.

1449
01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:14,200
The city says that they want to come to the table before that happens, but we'll see what

1450
01:40:14,200 --> 01:40:16,160
they want to do with that.

1451
01:40:16,160 --> 01:40:23,120
They sued on constitutional rights on that, but based on the California constitution,

1452
01:40:23,120 --> 01:40:28,040
because it's much stronger and has better protection rights, Article 1, Section 1 of

1453
01:40:28,040 --> 01:40:36,640
the California constitution gives you medical freedom, body autonomy, genetic privacy rights,

1454
01:40:36,640 --> 01:40:37,760
a lot of things like that.

1455
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:44,320
And so it's way stronger than at the federal level under those protections.

1456
01:40:44,320 --> 01:40:50,920
And we wanted to show that these mandates are unconstitutional.

1457
01:40:50,920 --> 01:40:57,720
They can't step into this space and force you to take something against your will.

1458
01:40:57,720 --> 01:41:04,520
It just goes against every principle that this country was founded on.

1459
01:41:04,520 --> 01:41:06,040
So that's where we stand in the courts.

1460
01:41:06,040 --> 01:41:18,920
And then throughout that process, December 1st of 2021, I got off shift and about 15

1461
01:41:18,920 --> 01:41:23,600
minutes after I got off shift, I received an email that said, you've been placed off

1462
01:41:23,600 --> 01:41:29,560
duty, leave no pay pending disciplinary action.

1463
01:41:29,560 --> 01:41:39,520
And so I stayed off the work for pretty much two years, no pay, which is illegal in the

1464
01:41:39,520 --> 01:41:41,920
state of California.

1465
01:41:41,920 --> 01:41:47,680
And then I had my Board of Rights that started in September of 23.

1466
01:41:47,680 --> 01:41:56,960
And then on November 27th of 23, they came down with their decision and found me guilty

1467
01:41:56,960 --> 01:42:02,720
of violating a condition of employment and terminated me.

1468
01:42:02,720 --> 01:42:14,200
So that's where I sit happily retired right now and still continuing to fight.

1469
01:42:14,200 --> 01:42:15,200
Yeah.

1470
01:42:15,200 --> 01:42:20,160
So there's a lot inside of that unpack, but whatever.

1471
01:42:20,160 --> 01:42:28,880
Yeah, no, but I want to just recap the way I viewed the pandemic and then we'll get into

1472
01:42:28,880 --> 01:42:33,480
your term happily retired because I know there's two oxymorons there.

1473
01:42:33,480 --> 01:42:39,400
Firstly, when I think almost everyone has come on here, no matter what leaning they

1474
01:42:39,400 --> 01:42:44,760
have, everyone was like, February 2020, we were like, oh shit, what is this?

1475
01:42:44,760 --> 01:42:46,240
Everyone took it seriously.

1476
01:42:46,240 --> 01:42:54,200
But then as the months and the weeks and ultimately months went on, you had all these different

1477
01:42:54,200 --> 01:42:56,620
layers of leadership.

1478
01:42:56,620 --> 01:43:01,320
And I would say I'm not a huge fan overall, but I have to say that Ron DeSantis, the way

1479
01:43:01,320 --> 01:43:06,360
he handled that, obviously his team, it was just so measured.

1480
01:43:06,360 --> 01:43:08,280
It was like, all right, everyone shut down.

1481
01:43:08,280 --> 01:43:12,040
All right, now we're going to see what's, oh, the numbers aren't actually anywhere near

1482
01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:13,040
as bad as we thought.

1483
01:43:13,040 --> 01:43:15,960
All right, restaurants or gyms or whatever.

1484
01:43:15,960 --> 01:43:20,240
And it wasn't too long, for example, before our gyms were open again.

1485
01:43:20,240 --> 01:43:22,040
And so I was very impressed.

1486
01:43:22,040 --> 01:43:23,120
I don't lean either way.

1487
01:43:23,120 --> 01:43:28,680
I just want good leaders, whatever shape, color, whatever they are.

1488
01:43:28,680 --> 01:43:31,320
And I saw it was very, very well done.

1489
01:43:31,320 --> 01:43:35,200
And it wasn't too long before most of us were going around and then you had the choice.

1490
01:43:35,200 --> 01:43:37,000
Do you want to get a vaccine?

1491
01:43:37,000 --> 01:43:38,000
Do you want to wear a mask?

1492
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:42,920
And I got vaccinated ultimately, not because of any fear of myself and my own health or

1493
01:43:42,920 --> 01:43:47,640
the spreading side, because me being in medicine for a long time, a lot of the things we were

1494
01:43:47,640 --> 01:43:52,400
being told as we got into those months, like that doesn't line up with fucking everything

1495
01:43:52,400 --> 01:43:58,360
I've been taught as a paramedic and in, you know, exercise physiology in, in, in UF and

1496
01:43:58,360 --> 01:44:01,080
all these medical classes that I've done.

1497
01:44:01,080 --> 01:44:04,400
There was a lot of, you know, oh, trust the science, like, but this isn't the science

1498
01:44:04,400 --> 01:44:06,280
that you've been teaching us for decades.

1499
01:44:06,280 --> 01:44:07,920
So that's where that's what stuck with me.

1500
01:44:07,920 --> 01:44:10,480
But I needed to get vaccinated to travel.

1501
01:44:10,480 --> 01:44:14,760
And I was going to visit my grandmother who was turning 105.

1502
01:44:14,760 --> 01:44:20,140
So for me, I was like, I will take that risk because I want to protect her.

1503
01:44:20,140 --> 01:44:21,680
So that was my personal choice.

1504
01:44:21,680 --> 01:44:26,000
It wasn't, you know, avert fear of the vaccine, but I certainly wasn't pro-vaccine.

1505
01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:31,600
I would not have had it had I not needed to travel and finally see my family after a couple

1506
01:44:31,600 --> 01:44:32,600
of years.

1507
01:44:32,600 --> 01:44:34,440
So that was my own choice and I had it done.

1508
01:44:34,440 --> 01:44:40,480
But what I observed through the whole two years, and I still revisit the pandemic for

1509
01:44:40,480 --> 01:44:45,800
this very reason is if it was about health and the wellness of the population, then during

1510
01:44:45,800 --> 01:44:52,320
those two years, we would start seeing real food put back in schools, soda machines being

1511
01:44:52,320 --> 01:44:57,520
removed from schools, physical education and sports programs being bolstered, you know,

1512
01:44:57,520 --> 01:45:03,800
mental health programs being bolstered, downtown areas being pedestrianized, how is cycle paths

1513
01:45:03,800 --> 01:45:05,120
being made?

1514
01:45:05,120 --> 01:45:06,120
You know what I mean?

1515
01:45:06,120 --> 01:45:07,120
And none of that happened.

1516
01:45:07,120 --> 01:45:13,080
And even in LA, if you really want to talk about a lesson missed, the smog went away.

1517
01:45:13,080 --> 01:45:15,840
I lived in Burbank for like a year and a half.

1518
01:45:15,840 --> 01:45:16,840
So you know, I know.

1519
01:45:16,840 --> 01:45:19,360
You know what the fog is?

1520
01:45:19,360 --> 01:45:20,360
Yes.

1521
01:45:20,360 --> 01:45:23,640
And you know, I was like, wow, you know, dolphins going into the, you know, was it the Venice

1522
01:45:23,640 --> 01:45:24,640
Canal?

1523
01:45:24,640 --> 01:45:27,180
I think it was, you know, so many lessons.

1524
01:45:27,180 --> 01:45:28,560
And then it was only a couple of months.

1525
01:45:28,560 --> 01:45:29,560
We were like, yeah, fuck that.

1526
01:45:29,560 --> 01:45:33,320
And now all of a sudden there's rubber gloves and masks everywhere you look, you know, fuck

1527
01:45:33,320 --> 01:45:34,720
the environment, you know?

1528
01:45:34,720 --> 01:45:39,320
So it was, there was some powerful lessons and you had a captive audience.

1529
01:45:39,320 --> 01:45:44,440
So what really smacked firstly, just simply on the wellness message was if we were actually

1530
01:45:44,440 --> 01:45:49,880
talking about wellness, then we're going to acknowledge the fact that a huge percentage

1531
01:45:49,880 --> 01:45:54,800
of the people that were losing a dime because of underlying health conditions, 70% of our

1532
01:45:54,800 --> 01:45:57,800
country is obese or overweight.

1533
01:45:57,800 --> 01:46:01,000
We consume 75% of the world's opiates.

1534
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:02,000
You know what I mean?

1535
01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:04,080
We have a health crisis.

1536
01:46:04,080 --> 01:46:09,240
So all COVID was, say all, what COVID was for most people was the final nail in the

1537
01:46:09,240 --> 01:46:10,240
coffin.

1538
01:46:10,240 --> 01:46:13,880
And we lost a lot of first responders because of what we talked about earlier in this conversation.

1539
01:46:13,880 --> 01:46:17,440
Shift work makes us so immunocompromised.

1540
01:46:17,440 --> 01:46:22,560
Now I had a friend of mine who's a Texas ER physician and he was observing that for some

1541
01:46:22,560 --> 01:46:28,680
people that were ill, it seemed like the vaccine was, was mitigating the symptoms to the point

1542
01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:33,660
where someone didn't die, but they survived their COVID infection.

1543
01:46:33,660 --> 01:46:35,680
So there was an application through his eyes.

1544
01:46:35,680 --> 01:46:40,320
And so what I try to do is bring all the different pieces of the puzzle so we can have a nuanced

1545
01:46:40,320 --> 01:46:43,480
overall look at this conversation.

1546
01:46:43,480 --> 01:46:47,600
But now fast forward a little bit further and we're watching the efficacy of this vaccine

1547
01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:52,000
that we're being told about go from a hundred percent to 70%.

1548
01:46:52,000 --> 01:46:56,580
And now ultimately it's no different than, you know, a placebo, you know?

1549
01:46:56,580 --> 01:47:01,800
So okay, I had no side effects that I'm aware of, you know, I think a lot of people had

1550
01:47:01,800 --> 01:47:03,960
the vaccine and had no issues at all.

1551
01:47:03,960 --> 01:47:09,920
However, as you said, there seems to be a lot of alignment with, again, either a vaccine

1552
01:47:09,920 --> 01:47:13,320
being the final, you know, the straw that broke the camel's back with someone who was

1553
01:47:13,320 --> 01:47:19,340
fragile, and, or really having, you know, an abnormal response.

1554
01:47:19,340 --> 01:47:25,200
But you do not have the data now to tell a first responder who was on the front line

1555
01:47:25,200 --> 01:47:30,600
with no fucking PPE working all the hours while you hid in your house, gotten fucking

1556
01:47:30,600 --> 01:47:35,460
fast food and alcohol delivered to your home, while you binge watched Tiger King.

1557
01:47:35,460 --> 01:47:42,480
And now you have the audacity a year later to say they're selfish, take their jobs on

1558
01:47:42,480 --> 01:47:47,280
a, on a vaccine that the efficacy has been proven now to be bullshit.

1559
01:47:47,280 --> 01:47:48,680
I think it had applications.

1560
01:47:48,680 --> 01:47:53,440
I think it saved some people, but not in any way the magnitude that you could hold someone

1561
01:47:53,440 --> 01:47:57,960
accountable and say you were spreading this infection because it wasn't fucking working.

1562
01:47:57,960 --> 01:47:58,960
Let's be honest.

1563
01:47:58,960 --> 01:48:05,680
So to then still try and, and I'm speaking to you now in, you know, November, December

1564
01:48:05,680 --> 01:48:11,020
of 2023, we're still having first responders being terminated because of this mandate.

1565
01:48:11,020 --> 01:48:16,060
We as a profession, as a country need to stand up and say, this fucking ends now.

1566
01:48:16,060 --> 01:48:17,400
What the hell are you doing?

1567
01:48:17,400 --> 01:48:22,360
There are no grounds now retrospectively to take these people's jobs.

1568
01:48:22,360 --> 01:48:27,120
And I had a San Francisco police officer, Joel Evan on the show, same exact thing.

1569
01:48:27,120 --> 01:48:31,800
So I just wanted to kind of, you know, put my name on log there because I'm in the middle.

1570
01:48:31,800 --> 01:48:33,560
I'm, I had the vaccine.

1571
01:48:33,560 --> 01:48:37,920
I'm not coming from any extreme, but I care about the wellness of this country.

1572
01:48:37,920 --> 01:48:43,440
And if we come out of a two year pandemic getting fatter and sicker than we were before,

1573
01:48:43,440 --> 01:48:47,120
it was never fucking about the health of the nation.

1574
01:48:47,120 --> 01:48:49,040
Well, and you're right.

1575
01:48:49,040 --> 01:48:50,040
Absolutely.

1576
01:48:50,040 --> 01:48:51,560
A hundred percent on everything you said, you know?

1577
01:48:51,560 --> 01:48:55,120
So let me jump back to one of the things, first things.

1578
01:48:55,120 --> 01:48:56,120
Okay.

1579
01:48:56,120 --> 01:49:03,400
So, you know, our organization, firefighters for freedom, you know, we're apolitical, right?

1580
01:49:03,400 --> 01:49:09,040
And I think that's important to understand from the standpoint that this was a political,

1581
01:49:09,040 --> 01:49:14,160
I mean, you could sit back and watch, this is political theater that you're watching.

1582
01:49:14,160 --> 01:49:23,800
And this was a heavily politicized event from day one, right?

1583
01:49:23,800 --> 01:49:32,000
And to me, when we had conversations in the beginning of what we were starting, we recognized

1584
01:49:32,000 --> 01:49:37,280
that this needs to be apolitical because in the fire service, right, we come from all,

1585
01:49:37,280 --> 01:49:41,080
I mean, we're very conservative, a lot of us, but still there's people on the complete

1586
01:49:41,080 --> 01:49:42,960
opposite end of the spectrum.

1587
01:49:42,960 --> 01:49:48,240
And it's the same thing with society, but in that space, we come to work and we do our

1588
01:49:48,240 --> 01:49:51,520
job and we don't look at things through a political lens, right?

1589
01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:56,440
If your house is burning down, you're having a heart attack or you got shot, I'm not judging.

1590
01:49:56,440 --> 01:49:59,840
I'm there to help you because you're a human being.

1591
01:49:59,840 --> 01:50:02,680
And that's how we looked at this as well.

1592
01:50:02,680 --> 01:50:04,640
We're apolitical from the standpoint that doesn't matter.

1593
01:50:04,640 --> 01:50:06,080
I don't care.

1594
01:50:06,080 --> 01:50:09,560
If you got the shot, that's the choice you made.

1595
01:50:09,560 --> 01:50:16,480
I hope that you did the research and everything and you made that decision based on your own

1596
01:50:16,480 --> 01:50:22,180
free will and for what you felt was right for you at the time.

1597
01:50:22,180 --> 01:50:27,720
In hindsight, again, every decision we make has a consequence and we have to deal with

1598
01:50:27,720 --> 01:50:30,000
that, whatever that may be.

1599
01:50:30,000 --> 01:50:32,320
That's what adulting is.

1600
01:50:32,320 --> 01:50:41,720
But to that point is our organization, we have people in our lawsuit that are vaccinated,

1601
01:50:41,720 --> 01:50:49,240
that believe in that, but don't believe that your choice should be taken away.

1602
01:50:49,240 --> 01:50:54,320
Don't believe it says freedom.

1603
01:50:54,320 --> 01:50:56,760
We the people, freedom.

1604
01:50:56,760 --> 01:50:58,040
That's what this is about.

1605
01:50:58,040 --> 01:51:04,200
And our liberties, maintaining our liberties as Americans and for the government to come

1606
01:51:04,200 --> 01:51:13,880
in or a bureaucratic leader, use that word loosely because that's what this country is

1607
01:51:13,880 --> 01:51:17,880
suffering from is a lack of leadership and organizations as well.

1608
01:51:17,880 --> 01:51:28,800
But for them to come in and tell me or you what you have to do to your body in order

1609
01:51:28,800 --> 01:51:34,520
for you to put food on the table and clothes on your back and a shelter over your head

1610
01:51:34,520 --> 01:51:36,280
is absolutely wrong.

1611
01:51:36,280 --> 01:51:43,840
So I don't care if you're on the left or the right, the middle, wherever, if you believe

1612
01:51:43,840 --> 01:51:48,040
in that same thing that you should be able to make that decision for yourself and not

1613
01:51:48,040 --> 01:51:50,440
be coerced, then that's the important thing.

1614
01:51:50,440 --> 01:51:56,680
And we want everyone from every party because diversity is important in that aspect.

1615
01:51:56,680 --> 01:52:01,160
We're all should be free to make our own decisions.

1616
01:52:01,160 --> 01:52:09,960
So that's really to me the crucial point in how we structured our organization because

1617
01:52:09,960 --> 01:52:15,240
throughout this whole thing, everybody wanted, oh, I won't say everybody, but there's a large

1618
01:52:15,240 --> 01:52:20,600
chunk of people that tried to play us off as right-wing radicals, racist.

1619
01:52:20,600 --> 01:52:27,040
Again, this is political theater and they throw everything under the sun at you trying

1620
01:52:27,040 --> 01:52:29,960
to discredit you.

1621
01:52:29,960 --> 01:52:38,080
But I've been the mouthpiece for this organization and done a lot of interviews and I stand in

1622
01:52:38,080 --> 01:52:42,320
a space of truth and light is the best disinfectant.

1623
01:52:42,320 --> 01:52:43,880
I have nothing to hide.

1624
01:52:43,880 --> 01:52:45,800
I've laid it all out there.

1625
01:52:45,800 --> 01:52:47,600
We've laid it all out there.

1626
01:52:47,600 --> 01:52:52,120
Everything we believe is on our website, what we're about and what we're fighting for and

1627
01:52:52,120 --> 01:52:55,200
that's people's freedoms.

1628
01:52:55,200 --> 01:52:58,240
Us as first responders, we took an oath, right?

1629
01:52:58,240 --> 01:53:01,920
And I think people forget that.

1630
01:53:01,920 --> 01:53:07,840
When you swear an oath, man, that's if you think you're just standing there and you're

1631
01:53:07,840 --> 01:53:12,920
saying that so you can get that cool fucking badge and go right around in big red and get

1632
01:53:12,920 --> 01:53:19,360
a Starbucks and town on your chest and whatever, you're a jackass.

1633
01:53:19,360 --> 01:53:25,040
You need to really go back and look at that oath that you took and understand what that

1634
01:53:25,040 --> 01:53:26,040
means.

1635
01:53:26,040 --> 01:53:35,440
The first thing it says is that you are protecting the constitution of the United States of America

1636
01:53:35,440 --> 01:53:40,880
and then the state that you work in and then the laws and ordinances of whatever municipality

1637
01:53:40,880 --> 01:53:42,100
you work for.

1638
01:53:42,100 --> 01:53:47,920
There's a reason that constitution stands up there as number one and that is it protects

1639
01:53:47,920 --> 01:53:58,840
your God given rights so that in an emergency, they don't trample those rights, right?

1640
01:53:58,840 --> 01:54:03,640
That's what the constitution and the bill of rights was put there for emergency situations

1641
01:54:03,640 --> 01:54:09,840
so that you didn't lose your rights and for them to come in and try and crush that and

1642
01:54:09,840 --> 01:54:17,560
use your paycheck as coercion to get you to submit to whatever that is, that's a loss

1643
01:54:17,560 --> 01:54:18,560
of your liberties.

1644
01:54:18,560 --> 01:54:21,800
And that's to me what COVID was.

1645
01:54:21,800 --> 01:54:29,760
It was the vehicle to create that power structure to gain control because tell me, would you

1646
01:54:29,760 --> 01:54:36,000
have ever thought Americans would have locked themselves in their home for two weeks and

1647
01:54:36,000 --> 01:54:41,160
then three months and then worn a mask and then stood six feet apart and done all of

1648
01:54:41,160 --> 01:54:42,160
this?

1649
01:54:42,160 --> 01:54:43,160
No.

1650
01:54:43,160 --> 01:54:53,200
No, I never ever would have thought that, but I understand how they did it and looking

1651
01:54:53,200 --> 01:55:09,680
at it now, I mean, it's a very elegant but diabolical plan to gain control over people

1652
01:55:09,680 --> 01:55:16,200
and using fear and coercion and it's sad.

1653
01:55:16,200 --> 01:55:24,360
And I want people all over the world to understand what they did and how they were gaslighted.

1654
01:55:24,360 --> 01:55:27,320
This was never about your public health ever.

1655
01:55:27,320 --> 01:55:34,280
It was about power, control and money and the world seeing it.

1656
01:55:34,280 --> 01:55:41,800
I mean, when I was put off of work in December of 21, we knew at that time, Rachel Wolinski,

1657
01:55:41,800 --> 01:55:46,760
the head of the CDC came out and said, it doesn't stop disease, doesn't stop the spread

1658
01:55:46,760 --> 01:55:48,000
of anything.

1659
01:55:48,000 --> 01:55:51,200
You can transmit it, you can catch it.

1660
01:55:51,200 --> 01:55:52,200
What?

1661
01:55:52,200 --> 01:55:54,200
Yeah, nothing changed.

1662
01:55:54,200 --> 01:56:00,240
I mean, we knew that, but she came out and said it on Fox News.

1663
01:56:00,240 --> 01:56:04,280
So you sit there and you're like, okay, so then why?

1664
01:56:04,280 --> 01:56:09,840
Like you said, here we are in 2023, December, wrong in 2024.

1665
01:56:09,840 --> 01:56:13,440
I was just terminated for that.

1666
01:56:13,440 --> 01:56:18,760
I still have nine other people that are off, leave no pay, waiting for their board of rights

1667
01:56:18,760 --> 01:56:19,760
right now.

1668
01:56:19,760 --> 01:56:22,420
And I was like, what are we doing?

1669
01:56:22,420 --> 01:56:26,320
You can't staff the fire stations, you can't do this.

1670
01:56:26,320 --> 01:56:27,440
What are you doing?

1671
01:56:27,440 --> 01:56:34,440
Now you're torturing people and making examples so that you can move on to your next charade.

1672
01:56:34,440 --> 01:56:40,000
Yeah, but also, I mean, for all the people that were taken off the line, that's even

1673
01:56:40,000 --> 01:56:42,520
more work that the ones that are still on are having to do.

1674
01:56:42,520 --> 01:56:44,640
So people don't understand that.

1675
01:56:44,640 --> 01:56:48,360
The ones that are left are working more and more.

1676
01:56:48,360 --> 01:56:54,040
And it's funny with the whole work week thing, people are like, well, we can't even get enough

1677
01:56:54,040 --> 01:56:55,040
people now.

1678
01:56:55,040 --> 01:56:57,200
I'm like, it fucking exactly.

1679
01:56:57,200 --> 01:56:59,220
Because you know what happens in 2023?

1680
01:56:59,220 --> 01:57:02,920
People can go on the phone and go, what's it like being a firefighter?

1681
01:57:02,920 --> 01:57:06,780
And of course, as you and I, the reason we wore the uniform for so many years is because

1682
01:57:06,780 --> 01:57:10,240
there's so many fucking awesome things about being a firefighter.

1683
01:57:10,240 --> 01:57:12,760
But that's all we knew when we got hired.

1684
01:57:12,760 --> 01:57:17,080
Now these younger generation can go, oh shit, when I put in firefighter, the next word that

1685
01:57:17,080 --> 01:57:21,160
pops up on Google is suicide or divorce or whatever.

1686
01:57:21,160 --> 01:57:26,480
And it's true, if punch it in, you put firefighter, I mean, as you go down the list, there's a

1687
01:57:26,480 --> 01:57:30,240
lot of negative words that populate next or the next couple of words.

1688
01:57:30,240 --> 01:57:31,240
And this is the problem.

1689
01:57:31,240 --> 01:57:33,960
And now you've got someone looking to go, I'm going to either do that, or I'm going

1690
01:57:33,960 --> 01:57:39,560
to go work in UPS or Amazon, or I'm going to go, you know, whatever insert option be.

1691
01:57:39,560 --> 01:57:41,480
And they're like, fuck, wait a second.

1692
01:57:41,480 --> 01:57:45,520
So I can be about to get off work and they can tell me you can't go home for another

1693
01:57:45,520 --> 01:57:46,520
24 hours?

1694
01:57:46,520 --> 01:57:47,520
Holy shit.

1695
01:57:47,520 --> 01:57:49,160
At least sounds terrible.

1696
01:57:49,160 --> 01:57:50,160
Yeah.

1697
01:57:50,160 --> 01:57:52,880
You know, and so we didn't know that we kind of went in and like, oh, okay.

1698
01:57:52,880 --> 01:57:53,880
And everyone's like, this is normal.

1699
01:57:53,880 --> 01:57:55,480
Okay, well, this is normal.

1700
01:57:55,480 --> 01:57:57,640
But then you go to all these funerals.

1701
01:57:57,640 --> 01:57:59,740
And then you're like, this is not fucking normal.

1702
01:57:59,740 --> 01:58:02,500
You know, so now, you know, we have to be this voice.

1703
01:58:02,500 --> 01:58:08,520
So with, with this, all these, all these elements of our profession where it's just fucking

1704
01:58:08,520 --> 01:58:12,680
wrong, whether it's the work week, whether it's faxing mandates, whatever it is, we have

1705
01:58:12,680 --> 01:58:16,400
to unify and push back and be a united front.

1706
01:58:16,400 --> 01:58:21,120
Because when everyone else is hiding in their homes, they push three buttons on a telephone

1707
01:58:21,120 --> 01:58:25,840
and pray that someone uniform is going to show up on their family's worst fucking day.

1708
01:58:25,840 --> 01:58:29,880
And one day if this carries on, there will be no one at the end of the phone.

1709
01:58:29,880 --> 01:58:31,660
And it sounds dramatic, but it's true.

1710
01:58:31,660 --> 01:58:34,400
We are at a point of critical mass.

1711
01:58:34,400 --> 01:58:39,760
But the irony is if you fix these things, you will have the same lines that I'm assuming

1712
01:58:39,760 --> 01:58:43,080
that you had to compete against to get in the fire service that I had to compete against

1713
01:58:43,080 --> 01:58:48,040
to get in Anaheim, a thousand certified people for a handful of jobs.

1714
01:58:48,040 --> 01:58:53,920
We can get back to that again, but not if we keep destroying our first responders physically,

1715
01:58:53,920 --> 01:58:57,920
mentally, and even betraying them organizationally.

1716
01:58:57,920 --> 01:59:00,200
Yeah, absolutely.

1717
01:59:00,200 --> 01:59:08,360
I mean, I remember when I tested, there was at the LA Convention Center, 20,000 people

1718
01:59:08,360 --> 01:59:09,560
taking the written test.

1719
01:59:09,560 --> 01:59:10,560
Sure.

1720
01:59:10,560 --> 01:59:12,000
What are the odds?

1721
01:59:12,000 --> 01:59:16,680
There's a hundred positions, right?

1722
01:59:16,680 --> 01:59:17,680
Or whatever it was.

1723
01:59:17,680 --> 01:59:24,200
I mean, we have a large department, we have 3,500 plus members.

1724
01:59:24,200 --> 01:59:33,640
But again, the union always keeps a certain amount of vacancies, right?

1725
01:59:33,640 --> 01:59:35,200
And they keep certain staffing levels.

1726
01:59:35,200 --> 01:59:37,200
They've done numbers that whatever.

1727
01:59:37,200 --> 01:59:40,080
We can go round and round on that topic.

1728
01:59:40,080 --> 01:59:42,240
I mean, that's all another topic.

1729
01:59:42,240 --> 01:59:43,440
But yeah, I mean, it was.

1730
01:59:43,440 --> 01:59:52,300
There was definite competition for the job and now, I mean, we just went out, the LAFD,

1731
01:59:52,300 --> 01:59:58,120
they went and did a single function class trying to hire just paramedics, right?

1732
01:59:58,120 --> 02:00:02,520
From private industry, AMR, wherever.

1733
02:00:02,520 --> 02:00:05,000
They got four people.

1734
02:00:05,000 --> 02:00:06,800
The city of Los Angeles.

1735
02:00:06,800 --> 02:00:08,800
City of Los Angeles.

1736
02:00:08,800 --> 02:00:10,080
Four.

1737
02:00:10,080 --> 02:00:12,320
What is, how it, what?

1738
02:00:12,320 --> 02:00:14,640
You can't do anything with that.

1739
02:00:14,640 --> 02:00:20,400
A, that tells you no one wants to be a paramedic in the city of Los Angeles because they know

1740
02:00:20,400 --> 02:00:25,040
you get ground to a pulp.

1741
02:00:25,040 --> 02:00:34,000
And B, they don't want to deal with the whole mandate issue because that's still in effect.

1742
02:00:34,000 --> 02:00:39,800
And then C comes into effect where, like you said, we didn't have the internet and all

1743
02:00:39,800 --> 02:00:41,220
that stuff back then.

1744
02:00:41,220 --> 02:00:46,860
The way that we do now, I mean, you walk around, everybody walks around with damn supercomputer

1745
02:00:46,860 --> 02:00:48,560
in their pocket, right?

1746
02:00:48,560 --> 02:00:53,480
And you can find pretty much whatever you want and anything you don't want on that thing.

1747
02:00:53,480 --> 02:00:59,520
And they might be sitting there having a coffee at ex coffee shop and see the fire department

1748
02:00:59,520 --> 02:01:03,600
across the street doing something like, or see them in the coffee shop and be like, oh,

1749
02:01:03,600 --> 02:01:04,600
that looks like a great job.

1750
02:01:04,600 --> 02:01:09,800
And then they start looking and they're like, fuck that.

1751
02:01:09,800 --> 02:01:11,480
You know what I mean?

1752
02:01:11,480 --> 02:01:12,480
I've had rookies.

1753
02:01:12,480 --> 02:01:21,360
I remember having a rookie one time and this is like 2000, maybe verse 10, maybe, I don't

1754
02:01:21,360 --> 02:01:22,360
know.

1755
02:01:22,360 --> 02:01:26,160
12, 14, somewhere.

1756
02:01:26,160 --> 02:01:36,400
And we went on a cardiac arrest, you know, and came back and she was spun out, like totally

1757
02:01:36,400 --> 02:01:37,400
distraught.

1758
02:01:37,400 --> 02:01:39,920
So, you know, sit down at the kitchen table.

1759
02:01:39,920 --> 02:01:40,920
Hey, what's up?

1760
02:01:40,920 --> 02:01:41,920
What's going on?

1761
02:01:41,920 --> 02:01:44,200
I've never seen dead body before.

1762
02:01:44,200 --> 02:01:50,960
You're like, okay, most people haven't, you know, you're like, okay, I get that.

1763
02:01:50,960 --> 02:01:53,040
But then the next comment floored me.

1764
02:01:53,040 --> 02:01:58,080
It's like, well, I didn't know that this is what we do.

1765
02:01:58,080 --> 02:02:01,260
I'm sorry, what?

1766
02:02:01,260 --> 02:02:02,960
How did you get this far?

1767
02:02:02,960 --> 02:02:08,920
You're in a fire station on an engine or a truck.

1768
02:02:08,920 --> 02:02:10,400
How did you not know this is what we did?

1769
02:02:10,400 --> 02:02:15,240
That'd be like saying you didn't know we go to fires and that buildings burn down, right?

1770
02:02:15,240 --> 02:02:18,600
And that we go inside of them or on top of them.

1771
02:02:18,600 --> 02:02:24,320
So, you know, that comes from recruiting and, you know, we definitely have a different generation

1772
02:02:24,320 --> 02:02:27,720
than we did 20 years ago than we did 50 years ago, right?

1773
02:02:27,720 --> 02:02:29,640
I mean, they're constantly changing.

1774
02:02:29,640 --> 02:02:33,920
And so, everybody always said, I was not like this, you know.

1775
02:02:33,920 --> 02:02:35,960
Sure, it wasn't.

1776
02:02:35,960 --> 02:02:41,000
But you knew what you were getting into.

1777
02:02:41,000 --> 02:02:46,480
You understood what the fire service or the law enforcement or the military was about,

1778
02:02:46,480 --> 02:02:47,480
right?

1779
02:02:47,480 --> 02:02:50,240
You understood the parameters that you're stepping into.

1780
02:02:50,240 --> 02:02:57,200
You might not have known all the nuances and everything because when you get there, whoa.

1781
02:02:57,200 --> 02:02:58,880
Okay.

1782
02:02:58,880 --> 02:03:04,240
I knew this, but, you know, there's a lot of other interesting things that come along

1783
02:03:04,240 --> 02:03:05,440
with it.

1784
02:03:05,440 --> 02:03:06,440
That's to be given.

1785
02:03:06,440 --> 02:03:11,800
But, you know, when recruitment and stuff goes out and they go to college campuses and

1786
02:03:11,800 --> 02:03:13,860
they're, you know, they're hiring chiefs, right?

1787
02:03:13,860 --> 02:03:23,400
People with degrees and all these other things, sociology degrees and it's like you're selling

1788
02:03:23,400 --> 02:03:34,720
them on a great schedule, lots of time off, good pay, benefits, pension, but you're not

1789
02:03:34,720 --> 02:03:38,880
explaining to them what the job really is, you know.

1790
02:03:38,880 --> 02:03:44,900
It's a blue collar job and you get your balls stepped on every day and you see the underbelly

1791
02:03:44,900 --> 02:03:47,920
of society and you have to deal with that.

1792
02:03:47,920 --> 02:03:57,800
And so through our conversation with this young lady, I said, you need to really go

1793
02:03:57,800 --> 02:04:06,040
home, you know, tomorrow or whatever and really process what it is we do and have that conversation

1794
02:04:06,040 --> 02:04:11,720
with yourself and your family and are you going to be able to do this because this is

1795
02:04:11,720 --> 02:04:15,200
a daily thing, especially here in the city of Los Angeles.

1796
02:04:15,200 --> 02:04:20,840
You're going to run, you could run five, six, seven of those a day, you know.

1797
02:04:20,840 --> 02:04:26,440
But I'm telling you right now, you're going to be a different person in five years than

1798
02:04:26,440 --> 02:04:27,440
you are right now.

1799
02:04:27,440 --> 02:04:30,640
You're going to be a totally different person.

1800
02:04:30,640 --> 02:04:34,680
So you need to be able to understand what's coming down the pipe and if you can handle

1801
02:04:34,680 --> 02:04:35,680
that, you know.

1802
02:04:35,680 --> 02:04:40,480
And I don't think those are conversations that most people have and that recruitment

1803
02:04:40,480 --> 02:04:45,240
definitely doesn't have with that, you know.

1804
02:04:45,240 --> 02:04:53,760
So yeah, it's just I think the world we live in now, the fire service is really going to

1805
02:04:53,760 --> 02:04:59,360
struggle moving forward because we don't have, you know, they're really trying to breed out

1806
02:04:59,360 --> 02:05:04,320
A type personalities.

1807
02:05:04,320 --> 02:05:07,520
You and I would be considered toxic masculinity, you know.

1808
02:05:07,520 --> 02:05:12,880
Everything is going to down the DEI road, right?

1809
02:05:12,880 --> 02:05:16,680
And that's a whole nother topic.

1810
02:05:16,680 --> 02:05:24,120
But to me, that really is going to leave a big hole in the fire service because A, they

1811
02:05:24,120 --> 02:05:27,960
don't want those types and then those types are going to be, you know, like, okay, well,

1812
02:05:27,960 --> 02:05:33,200
I'm going to find something else, you know, because all this other nonsense that's associated

1813
02:05:33,200 --> 02:05:37,440
with it is, why am I going to put up with that bullshit?

1814
02:05:37,440 --> 02:05:42,080
Well, I think, I mean, we, there's many layers to this.

1815
02:05:42,080 --> 02:05:48,400
I mean, as a profession, we've done a terrible job branding the way we train ourselves.

1816
02:05:48,400 --> 02:05:53,840
Like I have just been the absolute shit magnet black cloud as a paramedic my whole life.

1817
02:05:53,840 --> 02:05:54,880
I'm an EMT and paramedic.

1818
02:05:54,880 --> 02:05:59,800
I've never had a code saved 14 years and I even just did CPR on a plane a few weeks ago.

1819
02:05:59,800 --> 02:06:00,800
That person died too.

1820
02:06:00,800 --> 02:06:02,400
I'm just that guy, you know.

1821
02:06:02,400 --> 02:06:08,320
So you, you know, we train like, you do your mega code, I gave, you know, this drug, I

1822
02:06:08,320 --> 02:06:11,200
cardioverted whatever and then boom, all right, beautiful.

1823
02:06:11,200 --> 02:06:14,220
They came back, normal sinus, but that's not the real world either.

1824
02:06:14,220 --> 02:06:15,620
We set ourselves up for failure.

1825
02:06:15,620 --> 02:06:19,740
Like no one tells you a medic school, just so you know, 95% of these people are going

1826
02:06:19,740 --> 02:06:20,960
to fucking die.

1827
02:06:20,960 --> 02:06:25,560
95, if you're lucky, you might get, you know, I never had that station visit with the cake,

1828
02:06:25,560 --> 02:06:27,720
I'll tell you that much.

1829
02:06:27,720 --> 02:06:34,240
So you know, you've got that, but not to doom and gloom it, there is a blatant obvious answer.

1830
02:06:34,240 --> 02:06:38,680
You know, ask, you know, find out about the, a week in the life of your favorite sports

1831
02:06:38,680 --> 02:06:44,720
star, another athlete who, whose entire, you know, world depends on, on his health and

1832
02:06:44,720 --> 02:06:48,800
his performance or her health and her performance and look at their week.

1833
02:06:48,800 --> 02:06:51,160
Does it look anything like yours in the fire service?

1834
02:06:51,160 --> 02:06:52,640
No, there's a fucking reason for that.

1835
02:06:52,640 --> 02:06:55,800
Cause that person's trying to eke out performance and health.

1836
02:06:55,800 --> 02:07:02,600
So the closer that we get to LeBron James, you know, whoever's your, your, your person,

1837
02:07:02,600 --> 02:07:05,960
the more people are going to circle around and start coming back.

1838
02:07:05,960 --> 02:07:11,560
But we have just got to this point now and you know, we romanticize about the war years,

1839
02:07:11,560 --> 02:07:15,020
the firefighters of the seventies and eighties.

1840
02:07:15,020 --> 02:07:20,240
And some of them ran a shitload of calls, but most of them, especially in, you know,

1841
02:07:20,240 --> 02:07:22,680
New York and some of them, they were fire only.

1842
02:07:22,680 --> 02:07:26,480
Now this introduction of EMS has changed things completely.

1843
02:07:26,480 --> 02:07:30,320
And now you've got into facility transports and you know, all these other things that

1844
02:07:30,320 --> 02:07:31,360
they're throwing at us.

1845
02:07:31,360 --> 02:07:37,240
So there is absolutely hope, but we have to have that courageous leadership that goes,

1846
02:07:37,240 --> 02:07:40,520
look, we've, we have got to do some massive changes.

1847
02:07:40,520 --> 02:07:42,520
We got to reinvest in our people.

1848
02:07:42,520 --> 02:07:45,280
And I always point to the corporate space.

1849
02:07:45,280 --> 02:07:50,840
If you look at Google and some of these, you know, revered businesses in, in, in the corporate

1850
02:07:50,840 --> 02:07:57,480
side, they're pushing to, you know, like a four day work week for nine hour days because

1851
02:07:57,480 --> 02:08:02,200
they're realizing that their people are getting as much, if not more work done with a three

1852
02:08:02,200 --> 02:08:03,840
day weekend.

1853
02:08:03,840 --> 02:08:07,920
So doesn't mean, you know, Bruno Sini talked about, oh, we're a business and customer service.

1854
02:08:07,920 --> 02:08:08,920
All right.

1855
02:08:08,920 --> 02:08:13,040
Well, then fucking model Google, not some Indonesian sweatshop.

1856
02:08:13,040 --> 02:08:14,040
You know what I mean?

1857
02:08:14,040 --> 02:08:18,560
We've got to actually take these lessons from the sports world, from the business world

1858
02:08:18,560 --> 02:08:19,560
and apply it to ours.

1859
02:08:19,560 --> 02:08:23,560
And we've got to brand properly and educate the people and what it is that we actually

1860
02:08:23,560 --> 02:08:29,240
do because the problem is when we go to these public spaces, people, I mean, I hear it all

1861
02:08:29,240 --> 02:08:30,240
the fucking time.

1862
02:08:30,240 --> 02:08:33,860
They think that we sit around playing cards and waiting for a fire.

1863
02:08:33,860 --> 02:08:36,800
And I'm like, have you stood outside in any of your main roads in your city?

1864
02:08:36,800 --> 02:08:37,800
Yeah.

1865
02:08:37,800 --> 02:08:38,800
Do you hear sirens a lot?

1866
02:08:38,800 --> 02:08:39,800
Yeah.

1867
02:08:39,800 --> 02:08:40,800
Well, what the fuck?

1868
02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:41,800
What do you think they're doing?

1869
02:08:41,800 --> 02:08:46,240
That means they're not at the station and not playing cards, but it's such a disconnection

1870
02:08:46,240 --> 02:08:48,480
that people just think we're backdraft.

1871
02:08:48,480 --> 02:08:49,800
That's it.

1872
02:08:49,800 --> 02:08:52,360
And then probably that young lady was like, oh, we always save them.

1873
02:08:52,360 --> 02:08:53,360
They don't die.

1874
02:08:53,360 --> 02:08:54,840
I see it on Chicago fire.

1875
02:08:54,840 --> 02:08:55,840
They always make it out.

1876
02:08:55,840 --> 02:08:56,840
Yeah.

1877
02:08:56,840 --> 02:09:01,680
Well, and that's the thing too is now, I mean, pretty much look at, and I'm speaking from

1878
02:09:01,680 --> 02:09:07,200
a, you know, I'm going to speak pretty across the board as well from conversations that

1879
02:09:07,200 --> 02:09:08,200
I've had.

1880
02:09:08,200 --> 02:09:12,600
And I'm sure you've had the same ones that literally the fire service has become the

1881
02:09:12,600 --> 02:09:14,920
dumping ground.

1882
02:09:14,920 --> 02:09:21,560
When I say that, what I mean is anything that comes through dispatch, like when it, so originally

1883
02:09:21,560 --> 02:09:22,920
it goes to 911, right?

1884
02:09:22,920 --> 02:09:29,880
If you're close to a freeway, it goes to CHP and then they disseminated to fire or police.

1885
02:09:29,880 --> 02:09:34,960
So if it goes to the police, usually nine times out of 10, they're going to try and

1886
02:09:34,960 --> 02:09:37,960
pawn it off and send it back to us.

1887
02:09:37,960 --> 02:09:43,360
And so we go on these calls and you're like, there's no need for us to be here.

1888
02:09:43,360 --> 02:09:44,360
Right?

1889
02:09:44,360 --> 02:09:48,800
It's a mental health issue and that's supposed to be taken care of by PD or it's, you know,

1890
02:09:48,800 --> 02:09:55,600
so there's so many things that we get tasked with doing.

1891
02:09:55,600 --> 02:10:00,880
And because firemen are that we'll make it work, right?

1892
02:10:00,880 --> 02:10:01,880
That's what we do.

1893
02:10:01,880 --> 02:10:06,940
And we step into that space and we do make it work, but to our own detriment.

1894
02:10:06,940 --> 02:10:11,920
And then later we have the kitchen table and we just sit around and we bitch about it.

1895
02:10:11,920 --> 02:10:24,880
And then this is the biggest thing that I see is complacency breeds comfort and comfort

1896
02:10:24,880 --> 02:10:27,400
kills.

1897
02:10:27,400 --> 02:10:34,120
And that's what I see going on in the fire service right now is, and I saw that from

1898
02:10:34,120 --> 02:10:44,400
COVID especially is everybody was in the fight and they were totally stoked and this is wrong

1899
02:10:44,400 --> 02:10:47,120
and so on and so forth.

1900
02:10:47,120 --> 02:10:57,520
And then they got, you know, they got their exemptions denied.

1901
02:10:57,520 --> 02:10:59,720
And then all of a sudden there was this big frenzy.

1902
02:10:59,720 --> 02:11:01,760
We're going to fight, we're going to fight, we're going to fight.

1903
02:11:01,760 --> 02:11:06,160
But then when they said, okay, we're going to, you know, they take all the exemptions,

1904
02:11:06,160 --> 02:11:07,160
right?

1905
02:11:07,160 --> 02:11:08,160
Whatever.

1906
02:11:08,160 --> 02:11:09,880
Then everybody got comfortable again.

1907
02:11:09,880 --> 02:11:13,640
And they're like, oh, I don't need to fight.

1908
02:11:13,640 --> 02:11:14,640
That's over.

1909
02:11:14,640 --> 02:11:15,640
I'm good.

1910
02:11:15,640 --> 02:11:16,640
My job's secure.

1911
02:11:16,640 --> 02:11:17,640
I'm safe.

1912
02:11:17,640 --> 02:11:19,120
You know, I've got my overtime shift.

1913
02:11:19,120 --> 02:11:26,200
I've got, and all the while you're missing what you were fighting for in the beginning.

1914
02:11:26,200 --> 02:11:27,760
And so they get complacent.

1915
02:11:27,760 --> 02:11:32,920
And then the next time this happens that, you know, because the next strain of whatever

1916
02:11:32,920 --> 02:11:38,740
is so dangerous, they're going to pull that exemption and be like, oh, this is way gnarlier.

1917
02:11:38,740 --> 02:11:40,740
You lose your exemption.

1918
02:11:40,740 --> 02:11:42,760
You've already given up your rights, you know, so on and so forth.

1919
02:11:42,760 --> 02:11:49,880
So yeah, I think that whole thing is you said we need leaders, but guys get comfortable,

1920
02:11:49,880 --> 02:11:50,880
right?

1921
02:11:50,880 --> 02:11:54,200
They're like, oh God, you know, I don't want to step into that space.

1922
02:11:54,200 --> 02:11:56,000
I've got a good job.

1923
02:11:56,000 --> 02:11:57,640
I make good money.

1924
02:11:57,640 --> 02:11:59,400
I've got, you know, my toys.

1925
02:11:59,400 --> 02:12:01,600
I get to go on vacation.

1926
02:12:01,600 --> 02:12:06,240
You know, I can have a whiskey every once in a, whatever, you know, whatever it is, they

1927
02:12:06,240 --> 02:12:08,200
get complacent.

1928
02:12:08,200 --> 02:12:12,680
And then that complacency, they get comfortable and then they get killed.

1929
02:12:12,680 --> 02:12:16,040
And whether that's in your training, right?

1930
02:12:16,040 --> 02:12:18,640
When you're young, you're at a busy house all the time.

1931
02:12:18,640 --> 02:12:23,080
And then as you get older, right, you get, you're like, okay, I need to go to a slower

1932
02:12:23,080 --> 02:12:26,360
spot and then your training slows down and then you're not doing any training.

1933
02:12:26,360 --> 02:12:27,960
And then guess what?

1934
02:12:27,960 --> 02:12:29,640
You're out of shape.

1935
02:12:29,640 --> 02:12:30,800
You don't know what's going on.

1936
02:12:30,800 --> 02:12:32,440
You're not paying attention to the stuff.

1937
02:12:32,440 --> 02:12:36,480
And then you go into a building and you get smoked.

1938
02:12:36,480 --> 02:12:38,920
It works all the way around, you know, that analogy.

1939
02:12:38,920 --> 02:12:42,880
And so guys don't want to step into that leadership.

1940
02:12:42,880 --> 02:12:44,800
They don't want to do the work.

1941
02:12:44,800 --> 02:12:46,920
That's the other thing I've found.

1942
02:12:46,920 --> 02:12:51,800
It's like, man, please step into that space.

1943
02:12:51,800 --> 02:12:54,720
And this is, and it's not just in the fire service, it's across the country.

1944
02:12:54,720 --> 02:13:00,040
It's one of, you know, I've traveled all over and spoke on big stages and events and things.

1945
02:13:00,040 --> 02:13:06,440
And one of the things that I really try and impress on people is nobody's coming to save

1946
02:13:06,440 --> 02:13:07,440
you.

1947
02:13:07,440 --> 02:13:11,600
You think the next fucking politician that you vote for is going to save you bacon?

1948
02:13:11,600 --> 02:13:14,360
He's not, he's a politician.

1949
02:13:14,360 --> 02:13:18,920
The person, we are the ones that are going to save ourselves.

1950
02:13:18,920 --> 02:13:24,960
So you know, you don't like what's going on in your kid's school, right?

1951
02:13:24,960 --> 02:13:28,080
You don't like the fact that they're pushing some agenda.

1952
02:13:28,080 --> 02:13:34,080
Then while you were busy watching Saturday football and playing fantasy football and

1953
02:13:34,080 --> 02:13:41,360
dancing with the stars, the other side got in there and they're pushing that agenda from

1954
02:13:41,360 --> 02:13:42,360
the ground up.

1955
02:13:42,360 --> 02:13:46,040
So, you know, we have to take our communities back at a grassroots level.

1956
02:13:46,040 --> 02:13:48,400
It starts from the bottom up, right?

1957
02:13:48,400 --> 02:13:51,320
It's not top down, it's control.

1958
02:13:51,320 --> 02:13:57,280
And so whether it's, you know, we get complacent in our lives, we don't, you know, you're a

1959
02:13:57,280 --> 02:13:58,280
rough day at work.

1960
02:13:58,280 --> 02:13:59,720
You just want to hang out on the weekend.

1961
02:13:59,720 --> 02:14:02,560
You don't want to be involved, you know, oh, it's too much work.

1962
02:14:02,560 --> 02:14:05,440
Somebody else is already doing it, right?

1963
02:14:05,440 --> 02:14:10,280
But then when it doesn't go the way that you want and things go sideways, you don't have

1964
02:14:10,280 --> 02:14:13,880
anybody to blame but yourself because you're not involved.

1965
02:14:13,880 --> 02:14:18,640
You have to be engaged in that process and the same thing goes in the fire service.

1966
02:14:18,640 --> 02:14:21,720
Man, if your union sucks, guess what?

1967
02:14:21,720 --> 02:14:23,360
Get in there.

1968
02:14:23,360 --> 02:14:25,680
Be that change, you know.

1969
02:14:25,680 --> 02:14:31,520
If you've got horrible captains and chiefs, you need to take those tests and step into

1970
02:14:31,520 --> 02:14:34,600
that space to create that leadership.

1971
02:14:34,600 --> 02:14:40,040
And guys just get comfortable, unfortunately, and it's sad.

1972
02:14:40,040 --> 02:14:46,520
I don't know how to change that other than to say, you know, do it, make it happen, you

1973
02:14:46,520 --> 02:14:52,000
know, and that's one of the reasons why I've stood in this space out front of this is like,

1974
02:14:52,000 --> 02:14:54,120
man, come on, stand with me.

1975
02:14:54,120 --> 02:14:55,320
Let's fight back with this.

1976
02:14:55,320 --> 02:14:57,360
Let's be that change.

1977
02:14:57,360 --> 02:14:59,240
You have to be the change you want to see.

1978
02:14:59,240 --> 02:15:00,240
Nobody's going to do it for you, right?

1979
02:15:00,240 --> 02:15:03,080
How many drug addicts have you had a conversation with?

1980
02:15:03,080 --> 02:15:09,160
How many alcoholics, you know, I mean, I worked Skid Row for 10 years in downtown LA and it's

1981
02:15:09,160 --> 02:15:13,720
like, you can have conversations until you're blue in the face.

1982
02:15:13,720 --> 02:15:18,960
It's only when things get really bad is that that person has to take that step, that action,

1983
02:15:18,960 --> 02:15:27,880
and they have to want that change for themselves because otherwise, you know, it doesn't happen.

1984
02:15:27,880 --> 02:15:29,800
A perfect example, you mentioned Skid Row.

1985
02:15:29,800 --> 02:15:35,280
I had Judge Craig Mitchell on the show and he started the Skid Row Running Club where

1986
02:15:35,280 --> 02:15:40,960
he would literally run with some of the homeless and some of the addicts that were in that

1987
02:15:40,960 --> 02:15:45,560
area and they ended up getting, you know, I mean, obviously there were success stories

1988
02:15:45,560 --> 02:15:50,640
and some people that didn't, but they ended up running internationally in marathons just

1989
02:15:50,640 --> 02:15:55,640
because a judge who hated seeing what was going on outside his building and, you know,

1990
02:15:55,640 --> 02:15:59,500
obviously a lot of the people would end up in front of him and just did something else

1991
02:15:59,500 --> 02:16:00,960
to be part of the solution.

1992
02:16:00,960 --> 02:16:06,960
So you know, another incredible story, you made the comment earlier about being happily

1993
02:16:06,960 --> 02:16:12,520
retired and I want to dissect those two words just for a second as we close out.

1994
02:16:12,520 --> 02:16:18,720
One of the least discussed elements of mental health challenges, you know, emotional damage,

1995
02:16:18,720 --> 02:16:24,080
however you want to label it, is organizational stress or organizational betrayal, even worse.

1996
02:16:24,080 --> 02:16:29,720
And even the soldiers I've had on the show and the war fighters that, you know, reflect

1997
02:16:29,720 --> 02:16:33,680
on the withdrawal from Afghanistan and, you know, the fact that we left our allies behind

1998
02:16:33,680 --> 02:16:40,200
and there's such organizational betrayal through their eyes, but you have kind of led us through,

1999
02:16:40,200 --> 02:16:45,760
you know, your time in uniform and obviously the years you've given to LA, LAC and then

2000
02:16:45,760 --> 02:16:50,760
this happens and then now, you know, as of a few weeks ago, that's it, the door slammed

2001
02:16:50,760 --> 02:16:56,660
shut and that transition voluntarily can be challenging for many of us because that's

2002
02:16:56,660 --> 02:17:01,280
our tribe, it's our purpose, it's who we are, it's what we identify as.

2003
02:17:01,280 --> 02:17:05,720
But when it's snatched from you, I can imagine that's even more jarring.

2004
02:17:05,720 --> 02:17:10,880
So talk to me, you say happily retired, talk to me truly how that feels now and how you're

2005
02:17:10,880 --> 02:17:11,880
doing.

2006
02:17:11,880 --> 02:17:16,240
Well, one of the things I really want to touch on quick before that is what you talked about

2007
02:17:16,240 --> 02:17:20,040
is we make that our identity, right?

2008
02:17:20,040 --> 02:17:26,160
And that's something that I think is crucial to change in the fire service.

2009
02:17:26,160 --> 02:17:30,360
You know, coppers, you don't see it a ton, right?

2010
02:17:30,360 --> 02:17:36,040
Because they're unfortunately, they're the first person you call when you're in trouble

2011
02:17:36,040 --> 02:17:38,760
and the last person you ever want to talk to, right?

2012
02:17:38,760 --> 02:17:39,760
At a party.

2013
02:17:39,760 --> 02:17:43,880
So they hang out together in that aspect, right?

2014
02:17:43,880 --> 02:17:47,360
So they don't like to say, oh, I'm a police officer when they're off duty.

2015
02:17:47,360 --> 02:17:49,440
They don't want anybody to know, you know?

2016
02:17:49,440 --> 02:17:54,840
Whereas firemen are like, oh yeah, I'm fireman, you know?

2017
02:17:54,840 --> 02:17:58,240
That's what I do because everybody loves me.

2018
02:17:58,240 --> 02:18:01,960
You know, and soldiers, you know, I mean, they're very humble, a lot of them, you know?

2019
02:18:01,960 --> 02:18:06,520
I mean, if you're a SEAL, they're not walking around pounding on their chest, but they definitely,

2020
02:18:06,520 --> 02:18:09,080
there's another dynamic there as well, right?

2021
02:18:09,080 --> 02:18:17,920
So for the fire service to me, you know, we see guys and that's their purpose, right?

2022
02:18:17,920 --> 02:18:23,280
That's all they live, eat, sleep and drink, fire slayers, right?

2023
02:18:23,280 --> 02:18:26,840
And then when they retire, they don't have any other purpose.

2024
02:18:26,840 --> 02:18:29,480
They don't have any other, they don't know what to do.

2025
02:18:29,480 --> 02:18:36,120
And so I think it's really crucial that you have to understand that's your career.

2026
02:18:36,120 --> 02:18:37,640
That's not your identity.

2027
02:18:37,640 --> 02:18:39,160
That's not who you are.

2028
02:18:39,160 --> 02:18:45,180
You need to drill down and understand who you are at your core.

2029
02:18:45,180 --> 02:18:48,480
What do you like to do when you're not in the fire service?

2030
02:18:48,480 --> 02:18:53,880
Just drink beer and fucking go to the river, right?

2031
02:18:53,880 --> 02:18:55,600
What is it that drives you?

2032
02:18:55,600 --> 02:18:59,440
What are the things that you like, that you enjoy?

2033
02:18:59,440 --> 02:19:05,640
And start identifying with that and start not identifying as a firefighter when you're

2034
02:19:05,640 --> 02:19:06,640
off of work.

2035
02:19:06,640 --> 02:19:10,320
Start realizing that you're a human being, you're a person.

2036
02:19:10,320 --> 02:19:13,160
Figure out what that is.

2037
02:19:13,160 --> 02:19:17,760
And that being a firefighter is your career, right?

2038
02:19:17,760 --> 02:19:20,840
And at some point, a career ends.

2039
02:19:20,840 --> 02:19:27,160
And if you don't have an identity out of that, you're really going to be in a deep, dark,

2040
02:19:27,160 --> 02:19:28,440
shitty place.

2041
02:19:28,440 --> 02:19:30,080
And we see that a lot.

2042
02:19:30,080 --> 02:19:32,320
So I want to touch on that.

2043
02:19:32,320 --> 02:19:38,440
Now as far as for me, where am I at with this?

2044
02:19:38,440 --> 02:19:44,720
Well, I'm still in multiple lawsuits.

2045
02:19:44,720 --> 02:19:56,920
But all the things we talked about, leadership, one of the sayings in the fire service that

2046
02:19:56,920 --> 02:20:00,880
I think has kind of become a cliche at this point now is leave it better than you found

2047
02:20:00,880 --> 02:20:03,080
it, right?

2048
02:20:03,080 --> 02:20:07,280
You go to a structure fire and you do overhaul after that.

2049
02:20:07,280 --> 02:20:08,280
That place is spotless.

2050
02:20:08,280 --> 02:20:11,040
It looks better than half of when you went in, right?

2051
02:20:11,040 --> 02:20:12,040
I'm in the floor.

2052
02:20:12,040 --> 02:20:13,240
It's crazy.

2053
02:20:13,240 --> 02:20:15,980
You guys know what I'm talking about.

2054
02:20:15,980 --> 02:20:19,840
But we're not seeing that in the fire service.

2055
02:20:19,840 --> 02:20:27,600
And one of the things for me is they terminated me based on a condition of employment that

2056
02:20:27,600 --> 02:20:30,320
didn't exist, right?

2057
02:20:30,320 --> 02:20:31,320
It's not there.

2058
02:20:31,320 --> 02:20:32,520
It's not in my MOU.

2059
02:20:32,520 --> 02:20:34,660
My union didn't agree to it.

2060
02:20:34,660 --> 02:20:37,400
I was terminated illegally.

2061
02:20:37,400 --> 02:20:47,320
And with that, you took my ability away to be that leader.

2062
02:20:47,320 --> 02:20:56,440
You took the ability away for me to leave it better than I found it to be the change

2063
02:20:56,440 --> 02:20:59,880
that I wanted to see.

2064
02:20:59,880 --> 02:21:02,560
I can't run for union president.

2065
02:21:02,560 --> 02:21:09,120
I can't make it to chief or whatever in that organization.

2066
02:21:09,120 --> 02:21:15,480
You took it from me based on a fallacy, on a lie, on coercion.

2067
02:21:15,480 --> 02:21:21,360
And so, because I recognized that, I was penalized for it.

2068
02:21:21,360 --> 02:21:28,320
So from that standpoint, that's difficult.

2069
02:21:28,320 --> 02:21:40,400
I didn't, when I left the fire service, when I left my shift and I went home, I wasn't

2070
02:21:40,400 --> 02:21:41,520
a firefighter.

2071
02:21:41,520 --> 02:21:44,800
That's not my identity.

2072
02:21:44,800 --> 02:21:49,720
I have my own identity like I talked about of the things I like to do, who I am.

2073
02:21:49,720 --> 02:21:55,840
I went through a phase where I did a lot of introspection to really understand that.

2074
02:21:55,840 --> 02:22:03,080
So for me on that aspect, that's not soul crushing where it is to a lot of guys.

2075
02:22:03,080 --> 02:22:08,440
But again, the fact that it's been taken from you and you didn't voluntarily say, okay,

2076
02:22:08,440 --> 02:22:09,440
you know what?

2077
02:22:09,440 --> 02:22:13,640
I've done my service and my time and I'm ready to go and I'm going to retire and I'm going

2078
02:22:13,640 --> 02:22:18,520
to go do whatever is next in my life.

2079
02:22:18,520 --> 02:22:23,360
That's the hardest part from that standpoint.

2080
02:22:23,360 --> 02:22:30,520
You cut off my ability to leave something better, to leave a mark in that.

2081
02:22:30,520 --> 02:22:37,200
And you also penalize me by taking my future earnings away.

2082
02:22:37,200 --> 02:22:44,480
I'm 55 and I've spent my career in public service.

2083
02:22:44,480 --> 02:22:55,360
And so now you go through that process of, okay, what am I going to do now?

2084
02:22:55,360 --> 02:23:00,000
You took what I was, my ability to make a living for myself away.

2085
02:23:00,000 --> 02:23:05,240
You took my pension bowl away, those things.

2086
02:23:05,240 --> 02:23:12,080
And so those are the things that I struggle with that are frustrating to me because it

2087
02:23:12,080 --> 02:23:17,960
wasn't on my decision and it was wrong.

2088
02:23:17,960 --> 02:23:30,200
But I mean, I'm happy because I know that I did the right thing and I didn't compromise

2089
02:23:30,200 --> 02:23:31,960
my integrity.

2090
02:23:31,960 --> 02:23:39,200
To me, if you were to ask me, what is your number one core value, that would be integrity.

2091
02:23:39,200 --> 02:23:52,140
So character is built by doing the right thing when no one's looking, right?

2092
02:23:52,140 --> 02:23:58,480
It's very easy to compromise your integrity.

2093
02:23:58,480 --> 02:24:06,560
And for me, it's been where I answer to a higher power, to somebody bigger than me.

2094
02:24:06,560 --> 02:24:17,320
And again, like I said, you took that oath and that if I step back and I said, well,

2095
02:24:17,320 --> 02:24:21,580
and I just answered to myself, it would be very easy for me to rationalize and justify

2096
02:24:21,580 --> 02:24:30,080
the reason why I capitulated and did what I did because I needed that paycheck to support

2097
02:24:30,080 --> 02:24:31,840
my family, right?

2098
02:24:31,840 --> 02:24:35,200
To pay my house payment, to pay my mortgage, to do all these things, right?

2099
02:24:35,200 --> 02:24:39,320
We can rationalize and justify any of these actions.

2100
02:24:39,320 --> 02:24:47,160
But in the end, to me, that would be compromising my integrity because I took an oath and I

2101
02:24:47,160 --> 02:24:48,920
don't take that lightly, right?

2102
02:24:48,920 --> 02:24:55,120
And that is to protect and defend the citizens and the constitution.

2103
02:24:55,120 --> 02:25:00,520
And we always look at it as, well, I could be out there.

2104
02:25:00,520 --> 02:25:01,520
I'm not at work.

2105
02:25:01,520 --> 02:25:02,880
I'm not helping them.

2106
02:25:02,880 --> 02:25:06,540
But in reality, the way I'm looking at it is, no, I am helping them.

2107
02:25:06,540 --> 02:25:09,840
That oath to the constitution is super crucial.

2108
02:25:09,840 --> 02:25:15,120
It's limiting the power of those people to do this to someone else again.

2109
02:25:15,120 --> 02:25:23,160
And I might not be on the front line in the space of helping you with your heart attack

2110
02:25:23,160 --> 02:25:25,640
or your burning building or whatever that is, right?

2111
02:25:25,640 --> 02:25:28,080
But I'm defending your liberties.

2112
02:25:28,080 --> 02:25:35,680
I'm standing in that space between the oath and because it's really easy to say, I swear,

2113
02:25:35,680 --> 02:25:41,520
I, John Knox, solemnly swear, blah, blah, blah, whatever your oath is.

2114
02:25:41,520 --> 02:25:46,480
And then every day you're like, oh, yeah, I took an oath and it's cool and I'm upholding

2115
02:25:46,480 --> 02:25:47,760
it.

2116
02:25:47,760 --> 02:25:54,320
And then when the rubber meets the road and shit like this happens, are you really now?

2117
02:25:54,320 --> 02:25:58,440
Are you really going to step into that space and do what you said you're going to do or

2118
02:25:58,440 --> 02:26:07,000
you're going to rationalize and just justify your actions because of your wants and your

2119
02:26:07,000 --> 02:26:08,280
needs, right?

2120
02:26:08,280 --> 02:26:10,240
Because this is bigger than that.

2121
02:26:10,240 --> 02:26:13,880
There's a country at stake really when you think about it, right?

2122
02:26:13,880 --> 02:26:16,880
That they have needs and wants as well.

2123
02:26:16,880 --> 02:26:19,800
And I look at my...

2124
02:26:19,800 --> 02:26:23,800
I have two daughters.

2125
02:26:23,800 --> 02:26:27,480
I have to be able to get up every morning to look in that mirror and be able to say,

2126
02:26:27,480 --> 02:26:35,680
I did everything I could to protect their rights for the future so that later, if this

2127
02:26:35,680 --> 02:26:39,720
goes sideways in whatever direction, they will be like, dad, you were there.

2128
02:26:39,720 --> 02:26:41,680
Why didn't you do anything?

2129
02:26:41,680 --> 02:26:42,680
What did you do?

2130
02:26:42,680 --> 02:26:49,920
Well, I didn't because I needed a paycheck for you guys or whatever.

2131
02:26:49,920 --> 02:27:00,160
But to me, that's something that I couldn't answer that question.

2132
02:27:00,160 --> 02:27:04,220
I don't judge anyone that has made a different decision.

2133
02:27:04,220 --> 02:27:07,280
We all make decisions and we all have different paths, right?

2134
02:27:07,280 --> 02:27:10,620
And I'm not the person to say that it's right or wrong.

2135
02:27:10,620 --> 02:27:13,120
There's only one judge, right?

2136
02:27:13,120 --> 02:27:15,460
And that's not me.

2137
02:27:15,460 --> 02:27:20,960
I know that there's a bigger plan and that everybody has a path and we all make decisions

2138
02:27:20,960 --> 02:27:23,960
and we have to understand that they have consequences.

2139
02:27:23,960 --> 02:27:31,160
My decision, as hard as I fought so far, has led to the fact that I was terminated and

2140
02:27:31,160 --> 02:27:34,120
I wasn't paid for two years.

2141
02:27:34,120 --> 02:27:35,880
But I'm not crying about that.

2142
02:27:35,880 --> 02:27:41,400
I'm still fighting, but I knew that that was a possibility.

2143
02:27:41,400 --> 02:27:52,120
But the outcome of it was much bigger to me.

2144
02:27:52,120 --> 02:27:59,680
My personal is that that paycheck was not the driver.

2145
02:27:59,680 --> 02:28:05,040
There's a reason I got into public service and that's to help people and this is part

2146
02:28:05,040 --> 02:28:06,040
of that.

2147
02:28:06,040 --> 02:28:14,320
That's how I'm dealing with it, where I'm at in that space.

2148
02:28:14,320 --> 02:28:19,200
And so now I'm still just driving along.

2149
02:28:19,200 --> 02:28:31,040
Now we're working in a space of legislation for due process so that your due process as

2150
02:28:31,040 --> 02:28:36,960
a firefighter can be insured that you get it, unlike what happened to me and many of

2151
02:28:36,960 --> 02:28:40,200
us out there.

2152
02:28:40,200 --> 02:28:51,080
And also individuals who were what I like to call mandate injuries because it wasn't

2153
02:28:51,080 --> 02:28:55,440
necessarily because of just the vaccine or the shot, right?

2154
02:28:55,440 --> 02:29:02,360
We have plenty of individuals who have been damaged by that and who would have never taken

2155
02:29:02,360 --> 02:29:06,840
it, but under coercion and duress, they took that to maintain their job.

2156
02:29:06,840 --> 02:29:08,320
And I don't blame them for it.

2157
02:29:08,320 --> 02:29:13,400
Again, it's their decision and they made it freely.

2158
02:29:13,400 --> 02:29:18,120
Well, I won't say they made it freely, but they felt that that's what they had to do.

2159
02:29:18,120 --> 02:29:21,840
But unfortunately under duress and coercion, they made it.

2160
02:29:21,840 --> 02:29:26,640
And so we're working, I mean, again, suicides, right?

2161
02:29:26,640 --> 02:29:27,640
Mental health issues.

2162
02:29:27,640 --> 02:29:29,720
These are all mandate issues.

2163
02:29:29,720 --> 02:29:33,120
They're not just vaccine issues, they're mandate issues.

2164
02:29:33,120 --> 02:29:39,360
And so we're looking at working right now with legislation here in the state, putting

2165
02:29:39,360 --> 02:30:02,480
something forward to hold these counties, cities, municipalities responsible for the wellness of these individuals, making sure that they get taken care of, that their medical bills are paid, that they're getting the mental health care that they need.

2166
02:30:02,480 --> 02:30:04,120
Because let's face it.

2167
02:30:04,120 --> 02:30:10,880
I mean, if you really boil this down, there's crimes against humanity here.

2168
02:30:10,880 --> 02:30:16,480
If you really step back and look at the big picture, it's not hyperbole, it's not sensationalism.

2169
02:30:16,480 --> 02:30:25,600
If you really follow the money, you look at, like you said, it's not public health.

2170
02:30:25,600 --> 02:30:27,280
Public health has gotten worse.

2171
02:30:27,280 --> 02:30:29,560
I mean, all of those things are nonsense.

2172
02:30:29,560 --> 02:30:36,000
And so when you look at the underlying issue here, these individuals that were coerced

2173
02:30:36,000 --> 02:30:40,360
into taking this need our help.

2174
02:30:40,360 --> 02:30:44,760
They need someone to stand in that space and to create that legislation.

2175
02:30:44,760 --> 02:30:48,040
It's no different than the people at 9-11, right?

2176
02:30:48,040 --> 02:30:54,040
Yeah, the Zardoga Act that's protecting their medical, right?

2177
02:30:54,040 --> 02:30:58,080
Somebody's continuing to keep up that fight to get that thing extended, right?

2178
02:30:58,080 --> 02:31:03,520
I mean, a lot of health issues that people had after that.

2179
02:31:03,520 --> 02:31:09,240
Well, we have a lot of health issues after this, after these mandates.

2180
02:31:09,240 --> 02:31:22,360
So I think that that really needs to be the focus moving forward, is how do we help our

2181
02:31:22,360 --> 02:31:29,200
first responders that put their lives on the line during this situation and dealt with

2182
02:31:29,200 --> 02:31:35,400
all the mandate issues that have come up out of this since then and make sure that they're

2183
02:31:35,400 --> 02:31:37,280
not left behind?

2184
02:31:37,280 --> 02:31:41,100
Because truly it is, it's a fucking battlefield.

2185
02:31:41,100 --> 02:31:42,880
You can look at it at so many different angles.

2186
02:31:42,880 --> 02:31:48,640
So that helps drive me.

2187
02:31:48,640 --> 02:31:49,640
It's tiring too.

2188
02:31:49,640 --> 02:31:55,840
It's all of it, you're just like, there's days you're like, holy crap, man, we'll help

2189
02:31:55,840 --> 02:31:56,840
here.

2190
02:31:56,840 --> 02:32:00,680
Somebody throw me a life vest.

2191
02:32:00,680 --> 02:32:06,440
Well, speaking of that, so if people want to learn more or maybe help, where's the best

2192
02:32:06,440 --> 02:32:09,920
place to find Firefighters for Freedom online?

2193
02:32:09,920 --> 02:32:11,440
So you can go to our website.

2194
02:32:11,440 --> 02:32:19,960
It's www.firefighters4freedom.com or.org.

2195
02:32:19,960 --> 02:32:23,800
If you just Google Firefighters for Freedom, any way you spell it, it comes up.

2196
02:32:23,800 --> 02:32:30,680
We have a website, we have a legal and operational fund that you can donate to there.

2197
02:32:30,680 --> 02:32:38,920
We also have Hold the Line, which is money that we have raised through donations.

2198
02:32:38,920 --> 02:32:51,000
We've donated over $110,000 to date to members that were off duty, leave without pay in this

2199
02:32:51,000 --> 02:33:00,200
fight illegally to help them with their bills and so on and so forth.

2200
02:33:00,200 --> 02:33:04,800
And then you can find us on, I mean, we have Instagram is probably our biggest.

2201
02:33:04,800 --> 02:33:09,800
So on Instagram, that's where we do most of our posts and all that stuff.

2202
02:33:09,800 --> 02:33:14,760
And then it feeds out to Twitter and whatever.

2203
02:33:14,760 --> 02:33:21,400
Right now, because everybody thinks everything's over, even though it's not, we don't have

2204
02:33:21,400 --> 02:33:23,240
a lot of content that we're pushing out.

2205
02:33:23,240 --> 02:33:26,720
But I mean, Instagram probably right now is our biggest thing.

2206
02:33:26,720 --> 02:33:30,080
We have 50,000 plus followers on there.

2207
02:33:30,080 --> 02:33:31,680
It's good.

2208
02:33:31,680 --> 02:33:33,000
We've done podcasts on there.

2209
02:33:33,000 --> 02:33:34,000
You can go and look.

2210
02:33:34,000 --> 02:33:37,160
We've had Peter McCulloch on.

2211
02:33:37,160 --> 02:33:41,440
We do a lot of stuff through that.

2212
02:33:41,440 --> 02:33:45,400
We talk a lot about, we've done mental health stuff.

2213
02:33:45,400 --> 02:33:50,060
We've got different things that we're working on trying to move that forward in this space

2214
02:33:50,060 --> 02:33:53,480
because we know that that's a big issue.

2215
02:33:53,480 --> 02:33:58,640
So yeah, I mean, those are probably the two best places to find us is our website and

2216
02:33:58,640 --> 02:33:59,640
then Instagram.

2217
02:33:59,640 --> 02:34:05,600
Brilliant, well, John, I want to thank you, we've been chatting for two and a half hours

2218
02:34:05,600 --> 02:34:08,280
now, but we still scrape the surface.

2219
02:34:08,280 --> 02:34:13,320
I'm sure of a lot of other elements of your life, but it's such an important conversation.

2220
02:34:13,320 --> 02:34:16,600
And it's something I've been talking about for three years now.

2221
02:34:16,600 --> 02:34:22,760
However, the fact that, as we said, four weeks ago, this happened yet again to you so late

2222
02:34:22,760 --> 02:34:28,000
in the game, just underlines that we need to roll up our sleeves and revisit the fight

2223
02:34:28,000 --> 02:34:29,320
if we kind of forgotten about it.

2224
02:34:29,320 --> 02:34:32,880
So I want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time today and coming on

2225
02:34:32,880 --> 02:34:34,200
the Behind the Shield podcast.

2226
02:34:34,200 --> 02:34:35,200
I appreciate it.

2227
02:34:35,200 --> 02:35:00,360
Thank you so much.