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This episode is sponsored by Newcom and as many of you know, I only bring sponsors onto

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this show whose products I truly swear by.

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We are an overworked and under slept population, especially those of us that wear uniform for

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a living.

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system or down regulate.

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Now for most of us that come off shift, we are A, exhausted and B, do not want to bring

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what we've had to see and do back home to our loved ones.

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only feel like you've had two hours of sleep, but also down regulate from a hypervigilant

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state back into the role of mother or father, husband or wife.

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And you can find even more information on Newcom.com.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome back

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onto the show, actor, volunteer firefighter and friend, Bobby Burke.

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Now in this second conversation, we discuss a host of topics from the recent actor's strike,

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some notable calls in uniform, firefighter and mental health, fitness, the inability

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to save, the importance of experts on film sets and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and

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leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of over 850 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

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I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I welcome back onto the show, Bobby Burke.

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Enjoy.

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Well, Bobby, I want to start by saying firstly, obviously, welcome back to the behind the

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shield podcast.

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The last conversation we had was episode 529, which was October of 2021.

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And the beautiful thing about the way that interview ended after we'd heard about a lot

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of the acting side, your journey into Hollywood as it were, but also how 9-11 sent you into

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the fire service is at the very end of the interview, you got banged out on a call and

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that was it.

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Music fades in and you're off to respond.

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So firstly, I want to welcome you back, but secondly, that was by far the most epic ending

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of the podcast I've done in 852 so far.

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Well, I'll tell you, thank you, James.

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It's great to be back.

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It's an honor.

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It's a privilege.

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And anytime anybody wants to talk to me about anything, I'm humble.

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If I remember correctly, and I could go back into my calendar, I think it was a medevac

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for an elderly woman who had broken her hip and if you break a hip or if there's any nerve

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damage or anything of a certain order, the calibration and the designations of the medical

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calls here, you're going to go out by helicopter.

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So we do a lot of medevacs.

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We've done 30 this year, the year's not over.

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But yeah, I specifically remember wrapping up with you and getting toned out.

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Yeah, it was amazing.

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Now since then, we're talking almost two years now, what have been some of the career calls

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that you remember the last couple of years since we chatted?

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Oh, you mean like big jobs?

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Yes.

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We had a couple of good jobs.

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I had a job toward the end of September.

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It was 93 degrees out and I just happened to be really able to turn out quite quickly,

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gearing up and one of the other members convinced that we have a working structure taxpayer

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and it's going.

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So we got there, we hooked up.

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I had this brilliant pump operator chauffeur who was one of our assistant chiefs, Drew

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Becker.

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Communication between he and I was really good.

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So I've been practicing the Minuteman deployment for the crosslays, the inch and three quarters.

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And some guys are good, some guys are not.

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What I found out on that call is you need some clearance on the side of the truck to

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get it off the truck.

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And I was like, uh-oh, there's this like wall in front of me.

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So I said to Drew Becker, the chief, I said, can you help me get this load on my shoulder?

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And somebody was videotaping us.

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I suppose you see the work together.

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And I said, no, really help me get this.

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So I was able to stack 50 feet and carry another 50 and then have them stretch another 50.

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We knocked the rooms down pretty effectively.

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It was on the second story.

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One of the fire marshals said, somebody says this is your nightmare box because there's

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a lot of migrant kids who live upstairs, seasonal workers, and they sleep many to a room.

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And I always tell the guys when we drill or doing a building inspection, throw ladders.

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If we ever get anything, throw ladders, throw ladders.

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These kids won't be able to get out.

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And it was two o'clock in the afternoon, quite hot.

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So that was a good job.

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And then, you know, a couple of residential structure fires.

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One I described as a large volume of fire, but not a dangerous fire somehow.

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And the other was just smoke coming out of all parts of the house and you couldn't, we

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couldn't find the fire.

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So that's a dangerous fire.

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And they dedicated the first line in the back.

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I went in the back and the camera was up, couldn't find any fires to get this line out

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of here.

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We're going in the front door, closed that door on the way out.

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We went in the front door underneath the stairwell.

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It was a good fire going.

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We knocked it down.

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The fire had climbed up the wainscot all the way to three stories of the house.

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So we had good stairs and we just made our way up.

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So and then the rest is just, you know, your basic bread and butter, you know, down power

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lines, odor or gas, dumpsters, things like that.

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But every once in a while you get a good residential structure.

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And you're lucky when you have good guys with you that, you know, are dedicated and trained

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and know their jobs because it's come as you are, you know.

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You may be a good nozzle man, but you're throwing a ladder today or you may or vice versa.

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So you know, on all those calls, everybody was pretty heads up and there was absolutely

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no one injured, resident or member of the department.

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So that was, that's always good.

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When you talked about trying to clear the minute man, that reminded me, and I don't

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know if it's a minute man fold or a triple layer.

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I think it was a minute man.

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They used to call it the freeway pool in Anaheim.

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So if it was the minute man and forgive me, some people listening and the engine companies

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are probably screaming at me now, but my brain is like a colander.

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Once I stopped doing the job, everything fell out.

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You grab one loop each and you walk opposite directions.

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And I think whichever lay it was, it was obviously a cross lay.

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It would actually put a perfect S on the ground and now you deploy, but you can literally

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do it in an alleyway.

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Even the same as when we were taught ladders in the Florida Fire Academy was ladders on

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the floor.

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You know, you walk over, you, how do we do it?

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Oh my goodness.

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It's like suitcase carried it to the wall.

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Then you laid it flat against the wall.

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Then you climb the rungs up.

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Well, that works so well on a concrete draw ground with no bushes, cars, fences.

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But then I went to Anaheim and they showed me how to, how to actually shoulder a ladder,

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you know, high shoulder, you know, single man throw, single person throw.

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Don't worry about rotating it.

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Just tie it off and get your ass up there.

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And then again, it's like, okay, we're taught these things in fire academy, but then you

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get in the real world.

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It doesn't mean it's the wrong one specifically, but some things work really well and have

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in a very versatile, but some you're like, okay, that, that does work, but only in that

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one situation.

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And maybe this different, this different hose load or this different ladder throw is actually

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more universal when it comes to the fire ground.

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Because I've to this day still haven't been on a fire in a concrete building with no obstacles

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in the way.

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Yeah.

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And, you know, no obstacles and Mr. Murphy showing up.

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What did I do?

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I got off the rig without a pack on.

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I had two newer members with me who came upstairs, no tools, no nothing, no camera.

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So the recordings of the operation, you hear me say after I have a good meal, hey brother,

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can you send me a pack up?

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And then you're like, Oh, how about a couple of hooks in a small roof ladder?

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Oh, and, you know, bring your camera up.

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And door dash all this shit to the second floor.

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I'm so preoccupied with that statement as the first line goes, so goes the fire and

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getting it dedicated with composure, get it dedicated with, you know, accurately and seamlessly

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and so you can, I got a little tunnel vision there.

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You know, I just did not want to wait another because we had good chunky smoke work in and

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I didn't want to wait another minute.

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I knew I could operate exteriorly for the first few minutes to keep it out of the cock

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loft, this common loft.

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And then, you know, have a pack brought up to me, which is what happened.

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I mean, I was only up there for five minutes before I sent one of the kids to get a, you

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know, a back, a pack and some hooks.

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So it's the volunteer fire service where, you know, that's the side of the street that

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I'm on.

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And you just hope that no one gets hurt and that everybody goes home and that, you know,

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you do the job as efficiently as possible and as professionally as possible.

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When we think of the professional fire service, the more progressive, more humble firefighters

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are really starting to understand now, you know, clean cab and again, it's like calling

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National Health Socialized Medicine.

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Clean cab doesn't mean surgical.

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It just means not having off-gassing gear all over your, you know, your cab and putting

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the pack in a separate compartment, which as a tiller man in California, I'm a huge

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fan of because you can't wear a pack in the back of a tiller truck.

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So you get down and then you throw it on, you realize it takes, you know, six seconds

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to snap an SCBA on your back.

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But you know, we were starting to get there.

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We're realizing that we're already immunocompromised just through the shift work and everything

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else.

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And now we're talking about PFAS in our gear so that the fewer insults to our immune system

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we can get, the better.

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So you know, having as clean a gear as you can, whatever that looks like is important

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these days.

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How is that being received in your space, in the volunteer world, in your department

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specifically?

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It's being received very, very, very well.

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I came into my department at a kind of a transitional time where the older members were, you know,

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phasing out and the younger people were coming in.

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I was 41, but I'm talking about, you know, people 18, 19, 20.

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You don't have to explain to them, you know, the whole salty thing to them, that's ridiculous.

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Why would I wear, you know, gear with toxins on it?

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You know, in the old days when what was off-gassing was wood and cloth and cotton.

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Yeah, sure, you get sooty all you like.

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But they're just more aware that there's, you know, pyroplastic dripping on them and

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petroleum-based, you know, fuel.

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So and I speak for myself, I've seen way too many of my friends die of crazy cancers.

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You know, you talk about, you know, washing your hoods and, you know, cancers around the

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neck, cancers, skin cancers, testicular cancer.

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I mean, it's never ending.

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There's always somebody in the on deck circle just like, you know, he died, he died, he's

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got, he's, there's so many people sick now that I think that's what's, you know, you'd

228
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:58,880
be, you don't have to impress anybody any longer with the data.

229
00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:04,480
You know, it's 2023, the data is here, this shit's killing us, wash your gear.

230
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:05,480
Absolutely.

231
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,960
Well, what about from your world?

232
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,320
I want to get to the acting strike and, you know, moving forward as well.

233
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:16,320
But while we're on this topic, our profession on the professional side, on the career side,

234
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,400
excuse me, that's the wrong term, the career side, not professional side, because you guys

235
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,160
are as well.

236
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,040
We're having a real problem recruiting at the moment.

237
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:31,220
And through my eyes from the career side, there's many reasons, everything from a shrinking

238
00:16:31,220 --> 00:16:36,080
population that actually can because of the obesity crisis and screens and gaming and

239
00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:41,640
all that stuff, but also there's a lot more transparency now in what it's really like

240
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:46,080
to be a professional, excuse me, a career firefighter, you know, and the things that

241
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,440
come along with that, you know, the pay actually when you break it down isn't great.

242
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:53,000
And, you know, you get told at 730, you can't go home for your kid's birthday.

243
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:59,400
And this generation now is able to access the raw truth about the fire service.

244
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:04,520
And you and I love this profession and I stayed a firefighter my whole life, never promoted

245
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:09,800
because I loved kicking indoors and cutting cars and sawing roofs and everything else.

246
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:14,200
So it's not about the love of the job, but, you know, the love of the job doesn't stop

247
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:19,040
someone ending up in a casket with bagpipes playing and someone playing the last call.

248
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,080
Nothing fucking heroic about that at all.

249
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:27,200
So I think on our side, people when they're comparing professions now are weighing it

250
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:32,760
up and going, I love the idea of it, but the reality doesn't seem to fit where I want to

251
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,040
be in the next 10, 20 years.

252
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:41,000
So until we change the career side and make the work week more conducive to health and

253
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:46,440
actually pay these men and women enough so they don't have to have second or third jobs,

254
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:51,760
that is, you know, one of the barriers I think that's created or such an issue with us.

255
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:59,960
Now you come out of a pandemic where community and togetherness and service wasn't exactly

256
00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:01,840
the buzz topic.

257
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:07,120
It was stay at home, protect yourself, everyone else is a murderer, you know, pretty toxic,

258
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:10,840
divisive conversations.

259
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:15,240
So now we're coming out the other end and we're asking for volunteerism and community

260
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,120
when it comes to the volunteer firefighter.

261
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:22,840
So what have you seen as far as the impact of recruitment on the volunteer side the last

262
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:23,840
few years?

263
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:27,080
Well, it's a great question.

264
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,760
I have to be honest and say I haven't given it a lot of thought.

265
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,920
But you know what, when we're done with this, I'm going to look into it.

266
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:44,000
I have one observation to make and I think I hope it's an accurate one across the board.

267
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:48,920
And I say kids, I don't mean to be disparaging or the young people because essentially they

268
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,920
are young people and volunteer.

269
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:57,120
The people you are getting are of a higher quality.

270
00:18:57,120 --> 00:19:03,160
We have like several members who, you know, they're new, they come in twos and threes.

271
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:08,040
I'd love for them to come in eights and tens and twelves, but they don't.

272
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:13,320
Or initially they come in, you know, a class of eight and then, you know, of course that

273
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:18,360
guy's not going to make it, that guy's and they pair down and the guys that you're and

274
00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:23,280
gals that you're left with and I'm going to say gals too, because it's unbelievable the

275
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,460
quality of people that we have joining.

276
00:19:26,460 --> 00:19:31,740
So the ones that you are left with have been just stellar, outstanding.

277
00:19:31,740 --> 00:19:38,920
Like I can't even, this is my own little volley corner, have been fantastic.

278
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:47,480
So yeah, fire service is not, you know, a work from home, you know, prospect.

279
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:48,480
It's just a proposition.

280
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,920
It's the exact opposite.

281
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:57,000
There was a time when yourself, James and me and Jimmy, we could get a, you know, rent

282
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,560
an apartment or a house and, you know, we could afford it.

283
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:01,560
Those times were gone.

284
00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:03,920
Everything is very, very expensive.

285
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:09,880
So to make a living as a firefighter, firefighters traditionally always had, you know, a side

286
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,040
job.

287
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:21,800
But yeah, and then I think a big turnoff is the amount of material that they are responsible

288
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:22,800
for.

289
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,680
I remember in my community, we don't have a lot of hazardous materials.

290
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,360
We don't have hazardous materials, a great deal of them coming through.

291
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:36,840
We have chlorine, we have propane, I guess, various others, but it's not like we have

292
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:42,560
railroad cars of, you know, trichloro-trifluoroethane driving through.

293
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:48,020
All by way of saying, I think that there's just so much material that these kids are

294
00:20:48,020 --> 00:20:50,080
responsible for.

295
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,120
You know, Joey didn't want to go to college.

296
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:57,040
He wants to stay in his town and be a mechanic and he's going to be a volunteer firefighter.

297
00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:03,520
But now he finds out he has 148 hours of classrooms and three weeks of hands-on training all at

298
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:04,520
night in a row.

299
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,320
So, it's got to be there.

300
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:12,080
You know, I don't mean to disparage it or split the difference, but there's got to be

301
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:13,080
some way.

302
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:14,080
There is no way.

303
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:15,080
You got to do it.

304
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:16,080
You just got to do it.

305
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,840
You know, because you never know what's going to be asked of you.

306
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,200
That's the nature of the service.

307
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:28,880
So you know, when I took my written, it was 50 questions, then it was 100.

308
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:29,880
Now it's 150.

309
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,520
It just exponentially keeps getting more and more.

310
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,560
I joke sometimes if you break your fingernail, they're going to send you out to the county

311
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:38,960
academy for eight hours.

312
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:40,840
How not to break your fingernail?

313
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,960
You know, a little bit of it can be overkill.

314
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,160
But I guess it all serves a purpose.

315
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:57,080
You know, the National Fire Protection Association is always just trying to render, you know,

316
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:04,640
a safe algorithm over what is inherently an unsafe vocation.

317
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:10,000
So you know, there's going to be push and pull, I suppose, in that griping.

318
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:15,800
But yeah, it is hard to recruit.

319
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:20,800
I see, you know, when we tell kids, oh yeah, every time that horn blows, if you're a pro

320
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,040
bee, you're expected to show up.

321
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:30,760
And they're like, every time I'm like, bro, you don't get to, there is a self-centeredness

322
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:32,200
in the newer generation.

323
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,880
But I suppose every generation says that.

324
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:40,680
But nowadays, I think it's more just pervasive in terms of I, I, I, me, me, me.

325
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:47,640
But then the other hand, you know, kids these days are always looking for, you know, aggressively

326
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:53,240
minded kids like, oh, to volunteer and to change the world and to help out.

327
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,920
And it's a wonderful way to do it.

328
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,800
It's just you're not, it's not a half measure.

329
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:00,800
You're in 100%.

330
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:05,100
And you're learning how to do it 110%.

331
00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:11,120
So that might be not as attractive to them as they initially had thought.

332
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:12,120
Absolutely.

333
00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:18,280
Well, since we spoke, it's funny for people listening, we recorded, what was it, like

334
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:19,920
a month ago now?

335
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,520
And both of us were mentally wrecked.

336
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,480
So we literally trashed that interview and here we are doing part two.

337
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,160
At that time, there was a actor's strike.

338
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,800
Now I'm glad, you know, that we're at the other end and you guys are ramping up again

339
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:35,240
for the new year.

340
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:40,780
So now retrospectively, talk to me as an actor about that experience.

341
00:23:40,780 --> 00:23:44,320
And then I'm curious from the union point of view, because as a volunteer, as you said

342
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,800
to me before, you know, in a union as a firefighter, but you are as an actor.

343
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:53,320
So it'd be interesting to see the parallels maybe between your union and the union is,

344
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:59,000
for example, FDNY's union and what you've observed in your brothers there and sisters.

345
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:05,160
Well, as I mean, just this afternoon, I voted yes on the new contract.

346
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,800
I'm not entirely happy with it, but I'm a business person.

347
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,920
So I'm always looking to compromise, not my values or ethics or anything like that, but

348
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,760
you know, agreements, let's say.

349
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:23,800
I would like everybody to get back to work fairly.

350
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:29,520
The problem sometimes is that, you know, if these were not, if these were tough times

351
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:37,640
for movie studios, networks, I could understand their, you know, not wanting to give in or

352
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:46,680
give a little more, but these are banner, record shattering profit years.

353
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:53,240
And the fact that there is very little profit sharing, you know, when we're asking things

354
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:58,960
like a little bump into our healthcare, a little bump here, a little bump there, there

355
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:04,560
are certain scales over which actors get paid that haven't changed in 30 years.

356
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:13,160
Now, the other side of that is I hear my immigrant dock worker, bartender, superintendent of

357
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,440
the building father in my head going, get a real job.

358
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:24,480
But the fact of the matter is, you know, entertainment is, it can be, you know, it's impervious to

359
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,240
depression or recession, you know, like booze.

360
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:32,680
You know, people want to go watch movies, watch television and it's long hours.

361
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,320
You know, it can be 16, 18 hour days.

362
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,440
I've had people on sets with me, freeze their ass off or sweat their ass.

363
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,480
Like when, oh my God, when is this over?

364
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,560
It's like when it's, when they tell us and you have to be up at four o'clock to come

365
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:47,560
back.

366
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:48,560
Yeah.

367
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:49,760
So, you know, it can be a grind.

368
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:50,760
It can be a grind.

369
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:51,760
Then there's the memory aspect.

370
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,440
You know, you have to go, I have 22 pages of memorization and I get there and I'm ready

371
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,640
to go, but they tell me, oh, you're not memorizing that.

372
00:25:58,640 --> 00:25:59,640
You're memorizing this.

373
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:00,640
We're changing it all.

374
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,200
You know, a lot of stress.

375
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,000
You want to do your best.

376
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:11,880
The strike, one of the big sticking points was artificial intelligence.

377
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,120
They get to scan Robert Burke.

378
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:16,560
He can stay home tomorrow.

379
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:17,560
We'll just use his image.

380
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,920
It's like, you know what I mean?

381
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,760
Robert's going to do four takes and the producer says, that's it.

382
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:25,760
No more.

383
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,920
We'll just use the computer to get it right.

384
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,240
Cause he flubbed the line.

385
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,680
Well, you know, I'd like to do a fifth take because it's all money.

386
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:39,960
It's all, you know, they calibrate it down to the last little nickel and you're making

387
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,480
art pretty much.

388
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,600
You hope that it's artistic.

389
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:56,400
And so to, you know, lay this artificial intelligence in this computer, this robotic type of machination

390
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:03,840
over it is, it's kind of ridiculous.

391
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:04,840
You become indignant.

392
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:05,840
You're like, really?

393
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:13,800
You know, how do you get AI and, you know, the work of, you know, John Gielgud or Lawrence

394
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,100
Olivier or how are they synonymous?

395
00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:17,440
Not that I'm either one of those guys.

396
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:24,000
I'm just saying, you know, you want to go see a movie made by robots and a computer

397
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,440
or do you want to go see a movie made by humans?

398
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,880
It'll be up to you pretty soon to tell you the truth.

399
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:37,640
I'd rather see movies made by humans and, you know, do special.

400
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,200
I don't want to see backdrafts.

401
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,080
And that was made by humans.

402
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:50,760
I think I saw bits and pieces of Backdraft 1 and I couldn't, you know, I had no idea

403
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:51,760
what was happening.

404
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,320
I said, this is, I just didn't understand what was happening at all.

405
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:58,840
You know, guys hanging from pipes and I'm like, really?

406
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,040
You know, I just didn't get it.

407
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:07,400
You know, the funny thing about the fire service in movies, people don't understand.

408
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,280
When the fire is really going, this is what you see, okay?

409
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:12,720
That's about it, right?

410
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,960
So it's very hard to make movies about fire.

411
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:21,120
I remember when we were doing Rescue Me and the fire gag people were, you know, they were

412
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:27,000
very cognizant because they had FDNY guys on the set with them all the time, you know,

413
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,000
trying to help and enhance and make it as real as possible.

414
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:35,740
But getting back to the contract, I think we got, you know, incremental bumps.

415
00:28:35,740 --> 00:28:39,360
It's a three-year deal.

416
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:47,320
The union has always been really good at keeping you safe, you know, just in terms of, you

417
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:52,320
know, getting to the set, getting home from the set with enough sleep.

418
00:28:52,320 --> 00:29:00,560
You know, the conditions of the working conditions, protecting yourself, children who work, that

419
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,040
they should have tutors, that they should not work so long.

420
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:11,920
Because obviously, we're in a business that they will take anything they can get.

421
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:26,880
And you need to have these union, you know, what's the labor, you know, united labor for

422
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,480
protection, or otherwise you'll be just taken advantage of.

423
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:36,320
It harkens back to the days of, you know, Mary Pickford and United Artists.

424
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,760
These actors were getting worked into the ground and they said, you know what, we're

425
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,640
going to start our own studio and make our own films.

426
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,240
And they did.

427
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:52,040
But unified labor, I don't think there's anything wrong with it.

428
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,600
Sometimes it goes off the extreme end.

429
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:59,240
Unions can ask for crazy things, but as actors, we weren't asking for anything crazy.

430
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:04,240
We were just asking for a fair deal.

431
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:09,920
One of the things that had a few stump people on there, obviously, that was my side hustle,

432
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:10,920
as they say.

433
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,480
But I never really worked as a stuntman on movies.

434
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,840
I worked on the World Trade Center film, but it was really as a glorified extra playing

435
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,840
an FDNY firefighter.

436
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,360
So I got to experience what you're talking about.

437
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,520
Like, oh, wow, this is not fast or exciting.

438
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,520
It is near those things.

439
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:31,920
The final result is amazing.

440
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:37,680
But yeah, hurry up and wait is definitely a thing there.

441
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,080
But some of my friends are, one of my good friends, Steve Dunleavy, who actually worked

442
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,720
in Japan 22 years ago as a stuntman.

443
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,160
He's now phenomenal.

444
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:51,720
He works with Keanu Reeves and all kinds of people at a very high level.

445
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,760
But you realize that that organization has very little representation.

446
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,640
They don't even get awards in the Oscars.

447
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,880
Now when you look at how many action films there are, and we're recognizing everyone

448
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:10,960
from makeup to costume to set, etc., etc., but the person that's almost dying, the actor,

449
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:11,960
is not getting recognized.

450
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:12,960
So what about that?

451
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,240
Have you had a kind of perspective on that side?

452
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:17,160
You mean from the settlement?

453
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:22,560
Well, just as an actor, I mean, what's have you heard rumblings or, you know, of that

454
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,360
group of people?

455
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:29,560
No, but I've worked with a lot of stunt guys.

456
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:35,360
I've worked with the top, top, top people, you know, the Stuntman's Association within

457
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:40,680
the community of the Screen Actors Guild, within the community of filmmaking.

458
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:41,680
They're venerated.

459
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,360
Do you know what I mean?

460
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:50,960
I perceive them as almost scientists because you need to calibrate and measure and weigh

461
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:59,600
and understand a lot of stuff to make certain of these stunts come off well.

462
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:04,000
The stuntmen I've worked with over the years, I found to be probably some of the most interesting

463
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,160
guys I've met in the business.

464
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,120
I'm in touch with one fella.

465
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,680
He's also a judge, a UFC judge.

466
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:24,400
Listen, you know, when I did Robocop, it was my third movie and Russell Towery was my,

467
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:31,640
he just told me to make, I forget what he used to say, make my dialogue sound good,

468
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:32,640
Burke.

469
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,640
You're working for him?

470
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,560
Oh yeah, I was working for him.

471
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,400
This guy took shots like you couldn't believe, you know, blown up in the air because they

472
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,200
did everything to Robocop because they figured, well, here's an actor, here's a stunt guy

473
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,840
with all this body armor on, let's just shoot at him.

474
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,000
Let's shoot zirconium bullets right at him.

475
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,200
That happened to me one night and they just thought by virtue of wearing the costume that

476
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:55,200
I'd be protected.

477
00:32:55,200 --> 00:33:02,800
Well, I was yelling because they were cutting me in half with these, they're like paintballs

478
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,120
but when they hit something hard, they spark.

479
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:06,120
There's zircs.

480
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:12,240
They don't use any of this stuff anymore because it can all be computer, you know, image graphic

481
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:17,200
in, but yeah, I don't know.

482
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:22,880
I suppose the stuntmen know who they are and you know, they've always done such a great

483
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:34,160
job but again, the level of what's being asked of them in terms of danger and you know, spectacle

484
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,040
and thrill is always going up.

485
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:44,400
You know, it just seems to me that when I read about or find out about some stunt, you

486
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:51,560
know, in this film, they did this or you see some of these stunts that Tom Cruise has been

487
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,200
able to affect himself.

488
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:59,220
There's a funny story somebody tells, I think it was Matt Damon telling a story about Tom

489
00:33:59,220 --> 00:34:04,080
Cruise and Tom is telling the stunt coordinator, I don't want to do this and the guy says,

490
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,760
no, no, that's just too dangerous.

491
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:07,760
So Matt says, well, what did you do?

492
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,520
He goes, well, I got another stunt coordinator.

493
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,760
It's game on, it's game up.

494
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,040
I'm 63.

495
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,520
I hope not to be involved in many more stunts.

496
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,320
I've done a lot of my own fights.

497
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:30,000
I've done a good share of my own stunt work but again, I hope these guys get what they

498
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:39,080
need and what they want because it's very, very, very dangerous what they do.

499
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:46,280
I had a guest a while ago now, English stunt woman, Olivia Jackson and she worked on Resident

500
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:52,040
Evil 3, I think it was, which I'm assuming was still SAG but they shot in, I think it

501
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,340
was Romania and she's on a motorbike.

502
00:34:55,340 --> 00:34:57,160
She actually had a motocross background.

503
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:02,000
So she's on a motorbike and going towards the camera on a boom, well, the boom operator

504
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,560
didn't lift it up for the kind of over the head shot and she slammed into it at God knows

505
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,040
how fast it literally ripped.

506
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,960
Her arm was still attached but everything internally, the blood vessels, I think they

507
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,680
were able to reattach but all the nerves were severed.

508
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,560
I mean, all kinds of damage and she's an amazing woman.

509
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,520
She's gone back to martial arts and riding and all kinds of things but I mean, completely

510
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:32,320
life catastrophic life changing injuries to the point where her arm was numb so she opted

511
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:33,320
to have it cut off.

512
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,720
It was still, you know, had blood supply and everything but it's just annoying.

513
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:38,480
I can't feel anything, I can't do anything with it.

514
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:39,480
It's never going to work again.

515
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:40,920
So she's got to amputate it.

516
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:41,920
Yeah.

517
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,760
So that was the big thing I think with the stunt world was the protection, like the insurance.

518
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,400
If something goes wrong, do you have our back?

519
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:54,080
And I think it's certainly in that production, she was kind of left high and dry somewhat.

520
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,640
So yeah, this is the dark side of the stunt world.

521
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:01,160
Yeah, there is a dark side, especially when you're off campus, like you're not shooting

522
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:09,080
in Culver City or, you know, one of the studios or one of the lots, you're in Sofia, Bulgaria,

523
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:19,480
the guy says action, you know, and they blow up 50 canisters of plaster and gasoline mimicking

524
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,320
a B-52 arc like strike.

525
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,960
You know, I've seen that and I just thought to myself, Jesus, something's wrong.

526
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,280
These explosions are way too big.

527
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:35,600
But those explosions that I'm speaking of happened in actually Thailand and they were

528
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,680
replicating a B-52 strike.

529
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,880
What did I expect?

530
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:45,040
Were they within the parameters and the boundaries and the safety issues of OSHA?

531
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:46,600
I don't think so.

532
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,680
I think they were just, you know, it was unbelievable.

533
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:56,560
My third night on RoboCop, Robo comes into a command center.

534
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,600
He points his hand at something.

535
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:08,160
It's going to spray gasoline at this command poster display and it's going to ignite it.

536
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:14,360
What happened is I walked in and I pointed my hand where this spigot comes out, but some

537
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,440
of the spray bounced off this partition and back onto me.

538
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,880
And the effects guy is like he's hiding behind something going three, two, one, and he ignites

539
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,960
it and I go up in flames.

540
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:29,960
Well, the only thing that was exposed was my mouth, but I didn't shave for a week.

541
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,560
I had no hair in my nose.

542
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:39,720
I had some blistering and they put me out pretty quick.

543
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:44,560
The UFC judge, I'm going to say his name, his name is Douglas Crosby and I did a fire

544
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:51,200
gag in a movie where the spigot was here and I was breathing fire out of my mouth.

545
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:59,160
I was playing a timeless, ageless monster who lived on an island off the coast of Iceland.

546
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,960
Julie Christie, Helen Mirren, Sarah Polly were all in this film.

547
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,240
It was called the unbelievable, it was called No Such Thing.

548
00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:11,040
Anyway, three, two, one, the monster breathes fire.

549
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:16,400
I had all this effects makeup and hairspray.

550
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:17,400
Nobody counted on it.

551
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,280
My whole head went up.

552
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:27,600
James, I literally went down to editing months later because I wanted to know how fast Douglas

553
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:34,200
Crosby, the stunt coordinator, got, he got like about 15 feet across the room with a

554
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,960
towel and wrapped it around my head, knocking me over.

555
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:44,120
He jumped across the table to do it and he got to me in less than one second because

556
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:52,480
there's 42 frames per second and he got to me in 23 frames because I was counting and

557
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:57,360
you just see him and you see my head go up, boom, and he's right there.

558
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:02,240
I told this story like last weekend to his son.

559
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:05,080
So yeah, it can be dangerous.

560
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,680
It can be foolishly so, foolishly because you're not curing cancer.

561
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,840
You're not creating world peace.

562
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:20,000
You're just making a movie and to become injured like that is just foolish.

563
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,000
I did a stunt show.

564
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,200
It's still going in Orlando and it was a good show to watch and it was an awesome show to

565
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,120
learn how to be a stunt performer because it was a pirate show.

566
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,840
So there was rope swings and sword fights and high falls and there wasn't any fire in

567
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,960
that one but we were firing pistols and all kinds of stuff.

568
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:41,400
But one of the guys that I worked with, we did this big sword fight on the mast.

569
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:45,320
I think it was like almost 30 feet in the air and you had a little circus loop.

570
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,840
So you would still fall but you'd be hanging on by your wrist because that's going to feel

571
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:49,840
super awesome.

572
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:56,040
But anyway, he made it back off that but then tripped on the rigging, bounced off the crow's

573
00:39:56,040 --> 00:40:01,120
nest and then went down into the high fall pit but missed the pad, hit the concrete on

574
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:05,840
the way and landed on his back and he broke his back but not to the point where he actually

575
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:10,320
severed the spinal cord so he ultimately healed again.

576
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:16,240
But like you said, for a dinner theater show that we got paid, what do we get?

577
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:20,160
Something like fucking $60 a show or something.

578
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,600
I don't think, was the risk worth the reward?

579
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,560
Probably not but this is the thing is that there are places out there that treat their

580
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,240
people like gold and then there's the rest of the entertainment industry where corners

581
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:35,360
are cut and safety is maybe kind of disregarded a little bit.

582
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,320
So yeah, that was the one.

583
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:38,320
I was amazed.

584
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,680
It was like an hour and a half of solid stunts as well.

585
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:46,440
I mean, you were fighting and running around for 94 minutes, sometimes like two, three

586
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,120
times a night if it was a Christmas season.

587
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:54,960
So yeah, I mean, kudos to all the live action theme park and dinner show stunt people out

588
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,720
there because yeah, they're the unspoken heroes I think at the stunt world.

589
00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:03,200
I think they are because they come up with some crazy shit themselves.

590
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:04,680
You know what I mean?

591
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:10,880
When you see some of these, I was just in Tombstone, not just in August I believe and

592
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:12,400
I watched a street battle there.

593
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,360
It was pretty good.

594
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:20,120
I was telling a story during Tombstone during the shoot at the OK Corral.

595
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:31,840
I have my right hand extended way far away from me and I'm bringing my chin over to the

596
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:36,560
right side because I have a double load squib on the shoulder and I want it to project out

597
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:37,560
that way.

598
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,520
Three, two, one, action.

599
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:44,040
Bang, bang and I have my, you know, away from it.

600
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,640
They packed the squibs on this side.

601
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:47,640
Bang.

602
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,000
So that was bad.

603
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:54,800
I had to agree to a double load above the heart because it can be dangerous.

604
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,920
I said, if it's going to just spray out that way, it will be fine.

605
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,760
I'll keep my head away.

606
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:01,800
Packed on the wrong shoulder.

607
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:06,480
So that was, they fired that fellow though.

608
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:11,560
One of the other actors said, Burke, he was on a plane going home before you hit the ground.

609
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,800
It was just really inexcusable.

610
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:19,640
But there's so many stories, depending on how long your life is in this business, you

611
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,700
have plenty of stories.

612
00:42:22,700 --> 00:42:28,860
Like myself, if you're playing military or police officers, somebody joked recently,

613
00:42:28,860 --> 00:42:32,760
they said, Burke, you'll probably be chasing the bad guy from a wheelchair at this point

614
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:40,680
because, you know, as an actor who plays characters who are in the police department, those types

615
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:47,160
of things are always running after somebody, but anyway, those days are coming to an end

616
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,200
too, I suppose.

617
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:55,800
It was interesting talking to Steve off camera, you know, off mic, you know, the backstory

618
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,280
of some of the tragedies we have on the set.

619
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:02,160
Obviously, you know, the Alex Baldwin film most recently, and I'm not going to disclose

620
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:06,680
what was discussed, but, you know, you see the bigger picture and you see how avoidable

621
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:11,160
it was and lack of communication and again, shortcuts, you know, Brandon Lee and some

622
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:12,160
of these other ones.

623
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:14,160
And that's what actually Universal did a good job.

624
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:15,720
They hired, I think it was Brolin Productions?

625
00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:17,960
I got the name wrong.

626
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:25,320
Anyway, the same guy has been teaching me for 22 years and they're so diligent and they

627
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:30,480
tell some of the stories and it doesn't matter if it's a rubber gun or whatever, you're not

628
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,120
ever pointing it towards someone.

629
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:37,800
And God forbid you are actually firing around like the Terminator show we used to.

630
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:43,360
Terminator is, you know, supposed to be 45 degrees from T1000, which I was, so you're

631
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,120
taking that shot, but you know, you get some nervous new guy and it starts getting a bit

632
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:48,120
close.

633
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,320
So you realize, yeah, all it takes is just one momentary lapse of concentration on a

634
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,240
set and it could be life or death.

635
00:43:55,240 --> 00:44:03,560
Yeah, that wattage that's packed into a full loaded blank will just, you know, blow your

636
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:08,600
skin off or your skull or whatever it is that's in front of it.

637
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,520
I don't really, I'm not going to really speak to Alec or Rust.

638
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,720
I wasn't there.

639
00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:22,280
I would only let those who have worked with me in the countless, you know, firearm scenes

640
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:31,080
that I've been in speak to my attitude and my, you know, the way I conduct myself with

641
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:32,560
firearms.

642
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,080
Absolutely.

643
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:39,760
Well, you mentioned about having subject matter experts on Rescue Me.

644
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:47,240
I watched a film not too long ago since we last talked called Paramedic and it would

645
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:48,240
have been a great film.

646
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:53,800
Jake Gyllenhaal was in it and the idea was these two bank robbers hijacked an ambulance

647
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:54,800
and that was their getaway.

648
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:55,800
It was kind of like speed.

649
00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:02,720
You're in the ambulance for most of the film, but they must not have asked any real paramedic

650
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:04,120
to actually come and advise.

651
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:08,440
So this woman is, I mean, the dialogue is absolutely fucking nauseating for a start,

652
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:15,280
but also she's doing compressions while he's still got a jacket on, you know, a vest and

653
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,160
just everything was wrong.

654
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,120
So talk to me about that.

655
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:24,760
You know, what's the magic combination that some films get it right with the right people

656
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:31,920
and why does some production still refuse to get the real people on and add some authenticity

657
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,000
to it?

658
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:39,800
I've been very lucky with the consultants that have been hired.

659
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:45,800
In a lot of my experiences, 90% of my experiences, I've had the top, top, top people.

660
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:51,960
You know, I talked to you, I just mentioned that B-52 strike that they were trying to

661
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:52,960
simulate.

662
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,600
That was from an HBO film called Bright Shining Lie that we did.

663
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:58,840
Bill Paxton was the lead.

664
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:05,680
He was playing John Paul Vann, which was a civilian two-star general, civilian two-star

665
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,440
general in the later parts of the Vietnam War.

666
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:13,600
Bill was a great buddy of mine and we think about him all the time.

667
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:17,720
There was a colonel named Richard Cassidy.

668
00:46:17,720 --> 00:46:19,000
He's mentioned in the book.

669
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,600
The book Bright Shining Lie was by Neil Sheehan.

670
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:27,920
It won the Pulitzer Prize recounting this particular man, John Paul Vann's actions

671
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,760
and life during the Vietnam War.

672
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:35,440
Anyway, we were out there in Chiang Rai and we're stimulating a B-52 strike and, you know,

673
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,160
here comes the NBA and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

674
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:47,720
And I turned to Colonel Cassidy, who is the senior ranking expatriate in, was it Bangkok?

675
00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:49,560
Yeah, he lived in Bangkok.

676
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:54,480
I said, so Colonel, you know, is this, I mean, are we getting it at all?

677
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:55,480
Are we close?

678
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:56,480
And he goes, what?

679
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:01,280
And I said, like, is this somewhat like it was in Doctau in 1972?

680
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:04,440
He goes, oh no, no, no, it's nothing like that.

681
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,520
So, wait a minute, you're supposed to be here informing.

682
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,280
You're like, oh no, you kids are having a ball.

683
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:10,640
I'm not going to say anything.

684
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,020
So there's that side of it, you know.

685
00:47:13,020 --> 00:47:19,960
But then there's other sides of it like Captain Dale Dye, who worked with Oliver Stone and

686
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:26,660
he would have a boot camp if you were playing a young Marine or soldier or whatever type

687
00:47:26,660 --> 00:47:29,240
of military service you were in.

688
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:33,840
He wanted you holding the rifle absolutely properly, sighting it properly, everything

689
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:41,720
about what you were doing absolutely properly and authentically.

690
00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:49,640
Because in his eyes, as not only a former Marine, captain, combat decorated, Purple

691
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:56,000
Heart recipient, multiple Purple Heart recipient, he's also an actor and an artist, do you know

692
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,000
what I mean?

693
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:02,720
So he understands that the whole amalgam of the two, his consultation and the script and

694
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:07,240
the story is art, you know, and homage.

695
00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:14,400
You're paying tribute, you're paying honor to the men who fought in that war, that they

696
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,080
were wanted to be there, did not want to be there, believed in it, did not.

697
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:22,640
Besides the fact, we're telling a story here and so we want to get it as authentically

698
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,000
as possible.

699
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:35,000
So Dale Dye, I learned so much from him in terms of dedication to playing it right, but

700
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:36,660
doing a lot of the military stuff.

701
00:48:36,660 --> 00:48:40,880
So I've had a lot of military consultants.

702
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:49,680
When I was playing General James Mattis in Generation Kill, and I was really nervous

703
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:56,160
about that, I had wanted to play this other Colonel, part went to somebody else and I

704
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,320
didn't think I was going to be in the series.

705
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,600
Then they called, they said, well, would you play James Mattis?

706
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,760
And I said, no, I think I'm a little too young and that would be dishonorable.

707
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:08,140
And they said, no, everybody signs off on you.

708
00:49:08,140 --> 00:49:13,920
So I show up in Namibia, Southwest Africa, my fourth, third time being in that country,

709
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:21,680
and I'm on the Chao Line at lunch and there's this jacked Marine who's in the book.

710
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:26,000
He was a scout sniper recon Marine named Rudy Reyes.

711
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,040
And Rudy goes, yo, who are you?

712
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:29,840
I said, I'm Robert Burke.

713
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:31,400
And he goes, who are you playing?

714
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:32,400
I said, General Mattis.

715
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,880
Motherfuck, oh fuck, fuck, all right, bro, you look.

716
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,880
So he was all about me, but I was like, okay.

717
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:47,400
This is the day that I'm shooting this scene in Nasiriyah and they're simulating mortar

718
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:48,400
strikes.

719
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,080
The first Marine division is bottlenecked.

720
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:54,160
There's a problem.

721
00:49:54,160 --> 00:50:00,640
It is a historic day in this operation because this is the day that a very revered Marine

722
00:50:00,640 --> 00:50:05,960
Colonel is being relieved of duty by myself, by my character.

723
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:11,280
And then you have like eight, 10 Marines who were actually in the book, who were actually

724
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:16,000
there on that day with their arms crossed watching you perform.

725
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:23,160
And you're thinking, okay, actor boy, how do you play James Mattis?

726
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:30,480
So I just started barking very similar to how I am on the fire ground, to tell you the

727
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,240
truth, when things are not going properly.

728
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:42,520
But everybody was a consultant on that job because everybody's mentioned in the book,

729
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:53,360
generation kill, first Marine division going into Baghdad, Operation Rocket Freedom.

730
00:50:53,360 --> 00:51:02,280
And so from that to like detectives, I had a guy, Jimmy Bodner, he does Blacklist, he

731
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:08,800
does a lot of shows, former Brooklyn homicide detective, guy's seen it all, done it all.

732
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:13,600
And I'm doing a scene where I knock on this woman's door and she opens the door, I put

733
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:14,600
my foot in the door.

734
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,560
I'm like, hey, is you know, Joey Smith live here?

735
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,880
And she's like, no, he's not here and everything.

736
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:22,360
So he didn't show up yet on the set.

737
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:26,120
And I forget he was delayed for some reason.

738
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,680
And then finally on the third take, I put my foot in the door, you know, just so she

739
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:30,680
doesn't close it.

740
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:31,680
And it cut.

741
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,080
And I'm like, Bobby, yeah, I'm Jimmy Bodner.

742
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:34,720
Hey, Jimmy, how you doing?

743
00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:37,720
I just drove all the way in the Queens just to tell you to put your foot in the door and

744
00:51:37,720 --> 00:51:39,440
you put your foot in the door anyway.

745
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:40,440
Okay, brother.

746
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,660
So it's like, you never know.

747
00:51:43,660 --> 00:51:50,720
These little tweaks, these little things that inform your character, the authenticity of

748
00:51:50,720 --> 00:51:51,720
what you're doing.

749
00:51:51,720 --> 00:51:52,720
I like it.

750
00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:56,800
I like to find out these things.

751
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:03,160
But again, I've been very lucky with consultants one after the other in a lot of films that

752
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:04,160
I've done.

753
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:05,800
I find it interesting to meet these people.

754
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:10,080
Joe Pistone, Donnie Borosco himself.

755
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:13,960
We worked with him on a show called Falcone.

756
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,420
I got to be friends with him personally.

757
00:52:16,420 --> 00:52:23,600
The last time I was ever in the World Trade Center was in May of 2001.

758
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:29,400
Lou Schillero was the retiring boss of the New York FBI office and Joe calls me.

759
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,320
He's like, hey, you beat my date.

760
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:33,720
Come on, throw a suit on.

761
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:35,160
So I get down, I get off the elevator.

762
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:39,920
There's 800 FBI agents in me and they all know I'm not an FBI agent because they all

763
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,000
seem to know each other.

764
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,280
But he was just, it was fascinating to find out.

765
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:56,560
Here he is, Donnie Borosco, one undercover in this crime family and successfully to the

766
00:52:56,560 --> 00:53:03,600
point where there's old timers in this crime family who went to their grave not believing

767
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:07,800
he was an FBI agent, just won't hear it.

768
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:08,800
He was Donnie.

769
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:10,840
He was a good fellow.

770
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,160
He was not an FBI agent.

771
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:14,280
That's how good this guy was.

772
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:22,640
So Joe is still teaching at Quantico and these types of places, lecturing and fascinating

773
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:27,160
to meet these type of people in my career work.

774
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:28,160
Amazing.

775
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:30,120
Is he still alive now?

776
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,520
Yeah, I spoke to him just a couple of weeks ago.

777
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:34,520
Oh, good.

778
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:38,040
Actually, I sent him a message on something the other day.

779
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,100
It's not his name anymore.

780
00:53:40,100 --> 00:53:47,200
We used to joke when we were shooting a television show and we'd be all going to dinner somewhere

781
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,360
and there was a hit still out on them.

782
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,800
There was a contract.

783
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:56,440
Maybe some young Turk wants to make his bones in the mafia and maybe he takes out and we

784
00:53:56,440 --> 00:54:00,520
say, Joe, walk a little bit ahead of us.

785
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:05,440
But a gentleman, consummate professional, brave.

786
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:15,920
You can't even define what this guy brought to his dedication in the Federal Bureau of

787
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:23,040
Investigation and did a lot of good, I think.

788
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:24,640
Locking a lot of people up.

789
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:28,000
I wonder if he'd be interested in doing a podcast.

790
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:29,000
I'll ask him.

791
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:32,640
That'd be a hell of a story in a long time since the film.

792
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:34,900
Yeah, but people remember it.

793
00:54:34,900 --> 00:54:38,880
It's part of the culture, I think.

794
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:45,000
That aspect of undercover, when you think of undercover, it's a go-to immediately.

795
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:53,480
How many people went that successfully undercover and almost had it blow up a couple of times.

796
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:54,480
Yeah.

797
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,040
I had Jay Dobbins on.

798
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:58,500
He was the one that infiltrated the Hells Angels.

799
00:54:58,500 --> 00:54:59,500
Amazing story.

800
00:54:59,500 --> 00:55:00,500
Oh, amazing.

801
00:55:00,500 --> 00:55:06,240
It's a great story because then it was ATF after all the stuff he did and the danger

802
00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:08,120
he put himself and his family in.

803
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:13,680
Let's just say he was not well supported by his department after it all went tits up.

804
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:19,120
So a little organizational betrayal going on there too.

805
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:21,120
Wow.

806
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:23,560
Yeah.

807
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:28,160
I remember when I showed up with Joe at the World Trade Center at this dinner and it was

808
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,840
like you showed up with Babe Ruth or Lou Gehrig.

809
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:35,800
His whispers, living hero.

810
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,040
That's the term, living hero.

811
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:41,120
Because usually heroes are not living.

812
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:47,560
But yeah, he continues to be very impressive.

813
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:49,360
Well, you mentioned Dale Dye.

814
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:52,840
I can't remember if we talked about this in the first interview, but I worked with Dale.

815
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:53,840
He did the same thing.

816
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:58,920
We had a bootcamp for the Terminator show in Osaka, Japan.

817
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:01,680
So it was him and then Julia was our, not our director.

818
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:02,680
I forget what term.

819
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:07,680
We had a director, Adam Bizarre, but then Julia was second in command and was one that

820
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:09,220
we spent most of the time with.

821
00:56:09,220 --> 00:56:12,840
So we did this kind of mini two-day bootcamp with Dale.

822
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:17,700
So we got to do all the cadence stuff and then separate it into our roles and everything.

823
00:56:17,700 --> 00:56:20,840
So I had him on the show when I started this podcast and it was incredible.

824
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:21,840
Oh, Dale?

825
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:22,840
Yes.

826
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:26,600
And then he came back on because he's just wrapped up his new kind of Band of Brothers

827
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:28,800
series, the next one that they're doing.

828
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:30,960
So now this is all ramping up again.

829
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:33,560
I got to reach out and see if he wants to come on.

830
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:34,560
But yeah, amazing.

831
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:41,120
I stood in a bar in Osaka years ago hearing Vietnam stories for him.

832
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:45,200
I have a story I can tell you, but I'll tell it to you off camera.

833
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:46,200
Okay.

834
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,360
Well, the other one you mentioned was Rudy, Rudy Reyes.

835
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:49,360
He was on the show as well.

836
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:55,120
It's funny because you watch your show, Generation Kill, Fruity Rudy and everything.

837
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:59,040
But that is probably one of the nicest human beings I've ever met.

838
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:02,240
I mean, spiritual and the way he is physically.

839
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:10,120
But who he is is not what you think when you first see this model looking dude.

840
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:16,720
But yeah, another amazing human being and so humble after the role that he played too.

841
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:24,280
My fire department for 14 years did what we refer to as a warrior appreciation event.

842
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:35,240
We worked with Wounded Warrior, Wounded Warrior Project, Vet Hack, different organizations.

843
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:39,960
Actually we now only work with organizations that don't pay their staff.

844
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:49,240
But I remember one time I emailed Rudy, I said, because we would get together, we would

845
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:57,840
have Generation Kill, mini reunions in Manhattan, Chance Kelly would come down.

846
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:04,160
A couple of the other actors whose names are escaping me, Peter Sarsgaard, and we'd all

847
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:05,160
get together.

848
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:09,600
But I texted Rudy and I said, hey, listen, we're doing this warrior appreciation event,

849
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,760
July 14th, I don't know if you're in New York area.

850
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:17,200
And I never heard back from him.

851
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:21,720
And then the day comes and we had a little parade for them and then an event where they

852
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:26,560
could eat and go to different bars and just have a day out at the beach.

853
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:30,640
All of a sudden the event is kicking off and I see this dude standing by a garbage can

854
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:31,640
looking at his phone.

855
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:32,640
It's Rudy.

856
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:33,640
I'm like, dude, what are you doing?

857
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:34,640
He's like, hey, what's up?

858
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:35,640
I was like, you made it.

859
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:38,200
He goes, and he looked at me like the innocence of a child.

860
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,640
And he goes, yeah, of course I made it.

861
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:44,160
And the organizer was this former Marine named Gene Wu.

862
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,560
And he goes, Gene's my brother.

863
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:48,200
Of course I'd make it.

864
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:57,680
Like the fact that I would even begin to question would he make it or not was absurd.

865
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:02,120
And I remember that moment, the dedication, like he flew from like, I think Kansas City

866
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:06,000
to LA, LA to somewhere, somewhere in New York to make this event.

867
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:07,960
And he was on time.

868
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:13,080
So yeah, Rudy is, and it was a great event.

869
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:14,760
We had a blast.

870
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:15,760
We had a great time.

871
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:17,400
He had a great time.

872
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:24,520
I was proud of my department, you know, but he is, and we've been watching him on his

873
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:27,200
new show, Special Ops, I believe it is.

874
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,720
Yeah, SAS, who dares wins, I think it is.

875
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:30,720
Is that right?

876
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:37,640
Yeah, my wife says, maybe if they have a geriatric, you know, part, you could go.

877
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:38,640
You could go.

878
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:47,480
Anyway, yeah, but yeah, like, but where would I ever like really get to meet a Rudy Reyes

879
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:55,280
except to, you know, in this life of being an actor and being on different sets.

880
00:59:55,280 --> 01:00:01,920
And truthfully, one of the things I love about acting is when I get to do something that's

881
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:09,880
historic, you know, then you really get to jump in and read what happened, who they were,

882
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,720
what they were like, what they experienced.

883
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:19,200
And every time I've ever done a war movie, not one time has anybody ever shot at me in

884
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:27,360
anger so you can act all you like, but you're never ever, ever, ever going to know what

885
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:28,360
it's like.

886
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:32,800
I talk to people who have been shot at the indignant indignity of it.

887
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:43,520
It's like, why is that dude, you know, it's this crazy mind thing where somebody's trying

888
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:47,720
to take your life and that's a whole other jump off.

889
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:54,240
You know, you can act all you like, but you're never going to get there somehow.

890
01:00:54,240 --> 01:01:02,240
But I'm just always in awe of, you know, I remember getting off the plane in Thailand

891
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:07,280
in the heat and I'm like, how can anybody, I can't even, you know, my tummy doesn't feel

892
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:08,280
good.

893
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:12,040
But nobody's shooting at me.

894
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,700
I could barely breathe.

895
01:01:14,700 --> 01:01:20,080
One of the years I was in Thailand, there were these crazy fires and the sun was always

896
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:27,720
gone and smoke everywhere, but it was even the Thai people were passing out.

897
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:34,240
It was particularly hot that particular year.

898
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,880
I'm just meandering and babbling now.

899
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:37,880
Sorry, James.

900
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:38,880
No, you're fine.

901
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:41,560
I was just turning over my shoulder because my dog had pushed away into my office and

902
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:42,800
my son just took her out again.

903
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:45,200
She was making all kinds of noise in the background.

904
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:46,200
What kind of dog do you have?

905
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:47,200
German Shepherd.

906
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:48,200
Yeah.

907
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:49,200
Oh, nice.

908
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:50,200
She's amazing.

909
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,560
Actually, that's kind of a good segue.

910
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:57,480
I just came back and we were touching on it before we hit record, but I just came back

911
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:03,560
from England and I went back to take care of my daddy, had full knee replacement.

912
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:10,780
He was on his own, so kind of met him in London, staying with his brother's apartment.

913
01:02:10,780 --> 01:02:16,600
So there for a couple of days, drove him all the way back to his home and then some other

914
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:17,680
stuff happened anyway.

915
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:24,360
So I finally kind of get him settled, get on the plane in London and doors are closed.

916
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:29,160
We're getting ready to push off and I see commotion.

917
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:33,120
I got my headphones on and I look in front of me, people are kind of just doing abnormal

918
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:34,120
things.

919
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:37,520
So I take my headphones off and then I look back and there's a whole crowd around this

920
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:38,520
area.

921
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:42,760
For anyone listening, okay, we know what it looks like when there's a thing going on.

922
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:44,880
So I kind of ran back there.

923
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:49,040
The lady right in front of me was like, I'm a nurse and I was like, okay, I'm a paramedic,

924
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:50,760
expecting to be flooded with other-

925
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:51,760
Eustincable episode.

926
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:52,760
Exactly.

927
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:53,760
Yeah.

928
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:54,760
So, and I've done that before.

929
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:57,200
I've been a medic on a plane before.

930
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:00,720
Interesting, because when they say, is there a doctor, lots of people put their hands up,

931
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:06,440
but then you realize that a doctor in dentistry or podiatrist may not be the right person

932
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:08,680
for an emergency.

933
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:15,080
But anyway, this was a legit cardiac arrest guy face-plotting in the aisle.

934
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:20,880
So I think I was the only one from an emergency background at all on the entire plane.

935
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,000
The nurse was helping, she was checking the pulse.

936
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:26,160
And then there's another guy that kind of found his way on one of the seats and did

937
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:31,000
compressions for a little bit, but ended up running this code with a bunch of people that

938
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:37,940
never really done this before with very limited equipment because bless the crew of this plane.

939
01:03:37,940 --> 01:03:42,320
And they had to ask permission to open each piece of equipment.

940
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:43,800
So that delayed things too.

941
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:49,240
So initially, it handed just a bag of, I mean, sort of a bag of a non-rebreather and a tank

942
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:51,220
that only went up to four liters a minute.

943
01:03:51,220 --> 01:03:54,000
So I'm like, well, this is not going to work.

944
01:03:54,000 --> 01:04:00,880
So we're doing what we need to do, but slowly equipment starts filtering in and the people

945
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:05,600
around were incredible for the lack of experience with this kind of thing.

946
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,040
The AD was put on properly.

947
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:13,080
We went through our sequences without being too specific.

948
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:17,960
Then fire arrived initially and in England fire are not EMS as well, but they do have

949
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:19,680
a BLS training.

950
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:23,920
I ended up dragging this poor gentleman up into the galleys.

951
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:28,920
We have more space to work, carried on then working in, then the medic showed up.

952
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:34,680
And so I think I want to say it was like 20 minutes in of working CPR on a plane that

953
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:39,960
I finally, the medics are ready, the airways in place and okay, I think I need to step

954
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:42,560
back so you guys can do what you do now.

955
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:43,560
Yeah.

956
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:44,720
But that was it.

957
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:51,520
And it was the most jarring experience because if we were running a call, we'd clean up our

958
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:56,080
gear, we'd shoot the shit a little bit, we'd pack everything up.

959
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:58,360
Maybe we would get time to go to actually go back to the station.

960
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:01,600
Then you talk about it maybe over the dinner table.

961
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:08,520
But all I did was go to the airplane bathroom, wash the blood off my hands and then go take

962
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:10,240
my seat again.

963
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:12,600
And it was really, really weird.

964
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:14,840
And then time goes on.

965
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:15,840
They were incredible.

966
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:17,840
And I could see that a lot of the crew were shaken.

967
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:21,720
Two of them went home because we hadn't actually left yet.

968
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:26,440
And then the rest of them, they cleaned up and then they started serving tea and sandwiches

969
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:29,560
and everything for 10 hours and I was blown away.

970
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:32,400
And I did actually did a post on my social media today about this whole story because

971
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:37,480
I wanted to give credit to the people working that weren't paid to see horrible shit like

972
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:38,480
we are.

973
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:40,680
But you could see they were shaken.

974
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:45,280
So I got to kind of talk to them and gave them my information and everything too.

975
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:48,960
But then the next couple of days, it really shook me.

976
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:50,680
And I was like, wow, this is so fucking weird.

977
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:52,360
I did this for 14 years.

978
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:56,960
Like as you know, in the book, one shift was three separate dead people.

979
01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:00,800
One was on fire, another one was rotting in the woods, a homeless person.

980
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:03,560
And that was just like, oh well, that was a shit shift.

981
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:04,560
On as we go.

982
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:09,720
But now five years later, without that support structure, without a group of trained people

983
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:15,160
around you, without a box or a bag that you know every single compartment pocket, you

984
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:19,400
know, you've got meds, you've got your algorithms, everyone's kind of doing their part.

985
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:23,600
It was a whole load of imposter syndrome questioning.

986
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:27,160
They put in a thing called a gel, an eye gel.

987
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:29,220
It's a BLS airway.

988
01:06:29,220 --> 01:06:30,400
I'd never seen it before.

989
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:32,560
So I'm like, am I bagging the right ratio now?

990
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:36,160
I'm assuming it's every six, not 30 to two.

991
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:38,920
You know, with the compression, did we stop too long?

992
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:42,880
But then, you know, after the next day or two, I'm like, no, we did what we could.

993
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:47,160
Everything went right considering, but you didn't have that group.

994
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:53,200
So what I did in this video was what I realized, this is what it feels like to lose a person.

995
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:57,120
Normally, this is how it's supposed to feel.

996
01:06:57,120 --> 01:06:58,120
He expired?

997
01:06:58,120 --> 01:06:59,120
Yeah, I don't think he made it.

998
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:03,480
No, it was one of those things, to be fair, when you're doing a lot of this, you can tell

999
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:08,680
if someone's possibly savable and someone's already like, so gone.

1000
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:10,680
Or they have that artificial pulse.

1001
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:16,960
But you know, it's just the chemicals and the telemetry keeping them.

1002
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:17,960
Exactly.

1003
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:18,960
Exactly.

1004
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:19,960
So that's kind of what it was.

1005
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:27,200
But a really interesting perspective was when we are in the job and a call bothers us, we're

1006
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:28,720
like, what the fuck is wrong with me?

1007
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:35,040
And it's like, and it made me realize, oh, that's how you're supposed to feel.

1008
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:38,760
Actually, the fact that we can clean up after a call, knowing that dispatch is going to

1009
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:45,040
bang us out to another one after we just scraped a 15 year old gunshot victim off the floor

1010
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:50,840
or slayed a gangbanger with all his intestines in an ER, and you wash your shit up and then

1011
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:52,780
you go out and do it again.

1012
01:07:52,780 --> 01:07:53,880
That's abnormal.

1013
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:57,540
And so when you get those little moments of something bothering you, that's your humanity

1014
01:07:57,540 --> 01:08:02,040
peering through that gap and going, hey, you're still human, by the way.

1015
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:06,680
So I did a little video just to kind of tell that story because five years later, having

1016
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:13,560
not worn the uniform with none of the support structure that we have around us, it was crazy.

1017
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:19,040
And I leaned into all the healthy cocoa mechanisms that I have and did Newcombe a couple of times.

1018
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:23,380
I spent time with my dog and my son and two days later we're good again.

1019
01:08:23,380 --> 01:08:25,240
But it was really powerful.

1020
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:29,680
And the reason I'm segueing into this long old monologue about my plane flight is that

1021
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:36,280
I can imagine that parallels probably the volunteer fire service more so than the career

1022
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:39,080
fire service.

1023
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:41,360
The short answer would be yes.

1024
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:47,520
The first time I did compressions, I worked the guy 31 minutes.

1025
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:49,200
I think I lost five pounds of weight.

1026
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:50,200
We were up in an attic.

1027
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:53,520
It was over 90 degrees in the attic.

1028
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:55,960
County police officer is like, dude, I'll take over.

1029
01:08:55,960 --> 01:09:04,660
I was like, I was just like, and then the next day at the firehouse, I just happened

1030
01:09:04,660 --> 01:09:07,560
to be there in these two.

1031
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:08,560
They were marshals.

1032
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:09,960
They're like, is Robert Burke here?

1033
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:12,640
I was like, yeah, they're like, hey, Rob, I'm Joe.

1034
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:13,640
I'm Jim.

1035
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:14,640
I was like, hi.

1036
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:16,640
They're like, so how are you feeling?

1037
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:17,640
I was like, what?

1038
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:19,640
They're like, how are you feeling?

1039
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:21,640
And I was like, I'm fine.

1040
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:22,640
Why?

1041
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:26,760
They're like, well, we heard you had a, you know, a arrest yesterday and you worked pretty

1042
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:27,760
hard.

1043
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:31,880
And I'm like, oh, you guys are here.

1044
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:33,960
So I said, and I was truthful.

1045
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:35,560
I said, I'm fine.

1046
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:37,680
And then they relaxed and they were funny.

1047
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:38,680
They're like, oh, that's good.

1048
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:39,680
Yeah.

1049
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:41,560
He's, you know, what are you, Jimmy?

1050
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:43,120
You're over 16 with compressions, right?

1051
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:44,120
Yeah.

1052
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:45,120
No, he's never said that.

1053
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:46,880
And then they started being funny.

1054
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:53,080
But and then I had another guy compressions echo, echo call designation.

1055
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:54,120
Go right to the call.

1056
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:55,120
Go right to the call.

1057
01:09:55,120 --> 01:10:01,540
If you're, if you're, and I get in there and girlfriend six, 60 year old girlfriend is

1058
01:10:01,540 --> 01:10:07,240
giving compressions, but she's really not, she doesn't seem too enthusiastic about it.

1059
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:11,400
Everybody in the house seems very enthusiastic about this guy on the grass.

1060
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:14,600
And I'm like working him like, you know, a rented mule.

1061
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:17,880
I'm like, not on my watch and he expired.

1062
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:25,480
But those, you know, like it or not, I'm being glib and I don't, not disrespectful, but I'm

1063
01:10:25,480 --> 01:10:30,380
just saying those calls, they don't leave your mind.

1064
01:10:30,380 --> 01:10:35,760
When you're in a very public compressed place, like an airplane, it's compounded.

1065
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:39,560
You know, people are watching you're out of your element.

1066
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:46,680
If I had my, it's a, you know, there's, there's the dualistic quality of the rescue beast

1067
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:47,680
that's within us.

1068
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:53,240
You know, you're, I'm going to save this guy, but I can't say it's like a bad dream.

1069
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:54,920
I can't say because I don't have my stuff.

1070
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:55,920
I don't have my guys.

1071
01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:58,240
I'm not, I'm not on the job anymore.

1072
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:00,200
So that's a really vulnerable place to be.

1073
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:01,200
I think psychically.

1074
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:06,560
Do you ever see the Lucas device that gives compressions by itself?

1075
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:12,440
That's where they took him off the plane with, and I think it was very optimistic to be honest.

1076
01:11:12,440 --> 01:11:18,320
That's I think that's the most traumatic traumatizing, even when I see it, I'm like, oh my God, it's

1077
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:21,320
a chong chong chong chong chong chong.

1078
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:27,280
You know, it's funny, my department bought one and within a month we had two saves, two

1079
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:32,840
legit saves with this device, you know, kept the heartbeat and kept the blood flowing.

1080
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:37,240
I just think, you know, your thorax is going to be coming out the back of your head.

1081
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:47,380
But anyway, the fact that you were equipped to, you know, to deal with this because you

1082
01:11:47,380 --> 01:11:51,840
never know it takes the can or it takes the lid off, but you never know what's going to

1083
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:52,840
fly out.

1084
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:59,560
You know, a lot of times what flies out with me is resentment that I had, you know, from

1085
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:05,640
former bosses or members, you know, coming at me from the back with the knife, you know,

1086
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,240
and that boy I can get up, take a piss at three o'clock in the morning and that's what

1087
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:10,240
I remember.

1088
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:16,960
And you know, it's gotten a lot better, but for a long time, my life was really just not

1089
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:20,960
good mentally surrounding that.

1090
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:25,200
So we have to be really careful, you know.

1091
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:34,240
My friend Pat Brown, who passed away on 9-11, his brother was a firefighter.

1092
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:38,040
His brother was an emergency room physician.

1093
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:45,800
His brother was in New York for some 9-11 thing, takes off in a plane, old lady codes

1094
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:46,880
in the bathroom.

1095
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:47,880
Is there a doctor?

1096
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:49,560
Mike's an ER doctor.

1097
01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:50,560
Yeah.

1098
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:54,120
He's an ER, he's giving a this that the other plane lands.

1099
01:12:54,120 --> 01:12:55,640
Oh, thank you, doc.

1100
01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:58,200
Doc, do you want to wait for a different plane?

1101
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:01,400
We'll put you on a- they put them on a different plane.

1102
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:05,440
James, somebody else had a code on another plane.

1103
01:13:05,440 --> 01:13:06,440
Same day.

1104
01:13:06,440 --> 01:13:07,440
I thought I was a shit magnet.

1105
01:13:07,440 --> 01:13:09,800
I'll send you the article.

1106
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:16,520
My friend Mike Daly used to write for the Daily News, two different planes, same day,

1107
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:20,480
one doctor, two codes.

1108
01:13:20,480 --> 01:13:26,040
But Mike was of a- he was a different type of guy.

1109
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:29,520
I don't think those things got to him as much.

1110
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:33,520
Maybe I'm misspeaking, but you know, we didn't laugh about it.

1111
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:38,120
Oh, he was on like Katie Couric had him on the Today Show.

1112
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:39,120
And we were joking.

1113
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:40,480
He had this big mustache.

1114
01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:45,920
And if you played his interview at Fast Forward, he looked like Speedy Gonzales, you know,

1115
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:49,920
trying to get out of our- he was so shifty looking.

1116
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:53,040
Did not look like an emergency room physician.

1117
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:55,200
Referred to himself as master of the universe.

1118
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:56,760
You did not die on his watch.

1119
01:13:56,760 --> 01:14:00,040
You know, one of these super, you're not dying, baby.

1120
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:01,720
You're going to be fine.

1121
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:03,960
He was a tremendous, tremendous physician.

1122
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:12,720
He passed away October 30th, 2020 of directly, you know, 9-11 directly related cancer.

1123
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:14,480
Yeah.

1124
01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:21,280
So I don't know, you got to be very cautious with this business.

1125
01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:26,360
You know, you and I are being a little flippant, a little glib.

1126
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:31,840
But we understand the seriousness of it and we accept the seriousness of it.

1127
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:34,200
It's one thing to understand it and say, well, it's over there.

1128
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:36,320
No, no, no.

1129
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:43,560
The scenario you describe, you know, again, if you hadn't been five years away from it,

1130
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:45,000
oh, okay, James is on a plane.

1131
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:46,000
Wow.

1132
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:47,000
He got to work a guy.

1133
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:50,960
But being away from it, not having your guys, it's just that vulnerability that we don't

1134
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:52,240
like that.

1135
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:56,320
And that you, I'm happy for that guy.

1136
01:14:56,320 --> 01:15:02,400
He had every chance with somebody like yourself there, but it wasn't meant to be, I suppose

1137
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:03,400
that day.

1138
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:04,400
No.

1139
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:06,640
Well, the other thing was for me, and I talked about this on the show, I don't know if we

1140
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:13,400
discussed it last time, but kind of like that one cop, I'm over whatever, 14 years, I'm

1141
01:15:13,400 --> 01:15:18,880
when it comes to cardiac arrest, lots of pre-code saves, you know, and codes that went really

1142
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:19,880
well.

1143
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:24,080
But I had the brain bleeds, the GI bleeds, the shaken babies, the shat stabbings, the

1144
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:27,520
shootings, you know, and every time I showed up like, all right, well, if you're in cardiac

1145
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:32,160
arrest, I hate to tell you, but you're fucked because paramedic James is here and he's

1146
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:34,160
over whatever now.

1147
01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:37,400
And so there was a little thing in the back of my mind as well, like, all right, well,

1148
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:38,880
there's another one you didn't save.

1149
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:42,520
And I've talked about this a lot because obviously you're not God.

1150
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:44,000
And that's an important conversation.

1151
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:50,440
Like we are not supposed to save everyone, but we do a disservice in the fire service.

1152
01:15:50,440 --> 01:15:54,920
And in paramedicine, when we teach our people, we're like, if James and Bobby go in with

1153
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:59,840
a hose line, do a primary, you know, pull the kid out, every, you know, they made it.

1154
01:15:59,840 --> 01:16:00,840
Beautiful.

1155
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:01,840
Good job.

1156
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:05,480
Or mega code, you know, we're going to defibrillate, we're going to push, you know, epi and go

1157
01:16:05,480 --> 01:16:08,880
through his algorithm and oh, you got rhythms back.

1158
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:09,880
Beautiful.

1159
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:12,240
Well, that's not what happens most of the time.

1160
01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:15,480
Some people are lucky, you know, where I used to work theme park, they had a lot of code

1161
01:16:15,480 --> 01:16:17,960
saves because it was witnessed arrest.

1162
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:21,480
But even then five years, not a single one.

1163
01:16:21,480 --> 01:16:24,960
But you know, we do kind of set ourselves up for failure too.

1164
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:28,840
And TV and movies are the same, you know, shock and they wake up and they give someone

1165
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:29,840
a hug.

1166
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:35,120
And, you know, when NASA or expectation or the public's expectation, when the reality

1167
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:40,880
is they all die, that is another way that you've got to kind of have an internal dialogue

1168
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:46,100
with and remind yourself, look, you, you can't climb inside that person and unclog their

1169
01:16:46,100 --> 01:16:49,920
arteries in their heart or fix their aorta or whatever it is.

1170
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:50,920
You can just do your best.

1171
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:52,880
And I think we talked about this before.

1172
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:56,660
If you train diligently, that will give you some peace.

1173
01:16:56,660 --> 01:17:01,000
But if you didn't train, you know that you missed the tube or missed on, you know, missed

1174
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,160
a body on a primary surge.

1175
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:06,320
That's when it's going to haunt you even more.

1176
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:08,880
I suppose I don't render medical care.

1177
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:12,400
But I've been around a lot of people who do.

1178
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:18,040
I've watched out a, what is it, the lowest of the low, CFR, certified first responder

1179
01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:22,880
class like three times because I had got a job, I had to go, you know.

1180
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:30,360
I had this very venerated CFR teacher in Suffolk County here, you know, it's COVID and we have

1181
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:33,480
the masks on and he looks at me and he's like, is that you again?

1182
01:17:33,480 --> 01:17:34,480
I'm like, yeah, it is.

1183
01:17:34,480 --> 01:17:39,000
I'm like this, I'm trying to like disguise myself and get through this class.

1184
01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:48,440
Once again, I was able to, you know, I'm lucky the people that work here volunteer.

1185
01:17:48,440 --> 01:17:50,400
We have a paid paramedic.

1186
01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:52,100
They're very top flight people.

1187
01:17:52,100 --> 01:17:56,800
You know, they're going to, you're going to get really super good care, concerted, intelligent

1188
01:17:56,800 --> 01:18:04,400
care, which is, you know, you know, when we drive for rescue.

1189
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:12,000
The first time I ever jumped in on compressions, I wasn't supposed to be driving, but they

1190
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:13,000
said, let's go.

1191
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:17,760
So I just jumped in and they said, we need to start compressions.

1192
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:18,760
And I said, I'll jump in.

1193
01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:19,760
I jumped in.

1194
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:27,240
I started compressing the guy and, you know, I was really self-conscious, you know, like

1195
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:32,840
do it right, you know, make every compression count, you know, and this guy's going to come

1196
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:33,840
back to life.

1197
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:38,000
And he was, you know, he could have been expired for an hour up in that attic.

1198
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:39,000
Who knows?

1199
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:44,480
But you try your best for a favorable outcome.

1200
01:18:44,480 --> 01:18:51,240
And the lesson will be if it's favorable, you worked hard and if it's unfavorable, you

1201
01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:53,480
tried your best.

1202
01:18:53,480 --> 01:18:55,440
Sometimes you do better than your best.

1203
01:18:55,440 --> 01:18:57,160
Yeah, exactly.

1204
01:18:57,160 --> 01:18:59,840
There was a history channel film.

1205
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:03,000
What was it called?

1206
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:04,760
Dead the Fire, was it?

1207
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:10,720
Anyway, it was a great show, a great film because it had career, paid on call, volunteer.

1208
01:19:10,720 --> 01:19:11,720
And there was a volley.

1209
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:13,360
I can't remember what it was.

1210
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:15,600
It was maybe Kentucky or something.

1211
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:19,720
I might get it completely wrong, but they were having, you know, turkey fries to pay

1212
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:21,400
for the engine and all that kind of stuff.

1213
01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:23,960
Full on volunteer fire service.

1214
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:28,800
But he made a statement and he goes, every time a firefighter makes entry into a building,

1215
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:30,040
they're taking the same risk.

1216
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:33,560
He's like, sometimes they come out with a kid and I always stuck with me because it's

1217
01:19:33,560 --> 01:19:38,040
the same with every time you initiate CPR, every time you try and extricate someone from

1218
01:19:38,040 --> 01:19:43,080
a car or, you know, attempt a road rescue, whatever it is, every single time, you know,

1219
01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:46,160
you're making that same exact sacrifice.

1220
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:50,040
Now, some people might emerge with a child and end up on, like you said, Katie Couric's

1221
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:57,120
TV show, but we've all got to remember that every single time that we initiate that, it's

1222
01:19:57,120 --> 01:20:00,920
worthy and you don't have to emerge with the child, you don't have to do the code save

1223
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:04,920
because you did everything you could to try and mitigate that situation.

1224
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:07,040
And that's what's important.

1225
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:10,160
Two things in Ireland, they don't give medals.

1226
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:14,080
After you put your hand up and put your hand down, everything you do after that is expected

1227
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:15,280
of you.

1228
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:16,280
I love that.

1229
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:17,520
I love that too.

1230
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:23,160
And then I know an awful lot of city guys, FDNY, actually a lot of them are retired now.

1231
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:26,240
I have to accept that I'm 63.

1232
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:29,240
I don't really know as many as I used to.

1233
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:35,000
But we get a job here, multiple structures, not even in our district.

1234
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:37,400
We're just going for mutual aid, but there's nobody there.

1235
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:39,080
So it's our job.

1236
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:40,800
And a city guy will say, how does that work?

1237
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:41,800
How did that work?

1238
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:42,800
The other night.

1239
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:44,320
And I'll tell him.

1240
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:48,960
And he's like listening and he goes, yeah, well, he goes, just remember, he goes, you

1241
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:51,200
have volunteered the fire, isn't it?

1242
01:20:51,200 --> 01:20:55,200
You know, and I remember a guy saying that to me, that stuck in my head.

1243
01:20:55,200 --> 01:20:59,720
And another guy said, Berkey boy, you'll get killed out there just as quick as, you know,

1244
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:08,720
quicker because it's a communist you are, you know, I joked on a podcast getting salty.

1245
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:14,520
I made some kind of a disparagement, but like, you know, Joey's a florist.

1246
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:16,840
You can't expect him to take a door.

1247
01:21:16,840 --> 01:21:20,680
I mean, you know, he's a florist in real life.

1248
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:22,800
It's not very good at forcible entry.

1249
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:24,960
I mean, but you call 911.

1250
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:26,240
You didn't call for flowers.

1251
01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:27,600
You want a door taken.

1252
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:28,600
You got to get in.

1253
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:30,440
You got to operate.

1254
01:21:30,440 --> 01:21:40,120
I'm lucky the guys and gals that are in our department are pretty, you know, conscientious

1255
01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:46,760
and understand that the conditions here while they're, you know, benign in some districts,

1256
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:49,320
you know, a conflagration could happen here very quickly.

1257
01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:51,280
That's what's always in my head.

1258
01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:53,080
One go, they all go.

1259
01:21:53,080 --> 01:21:57,520
And so we train everybody's very good about training attitudinally.

1260
01:21:57,520 --> 01:22:04,160
Boy, we had, we had people come in, get through what we call firefighter one and then go right

1261
01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:12,600
onto firefighter to sign up for the Joseph DiBernardo seminar, get into the Eckert fire.

1262
01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:18,080
He's a Camden guy, runs this very extensive comprehensive training program.

1263
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:22,480
So they're trained, trained, trained, trained, trained, trained, you know, and it's never

1264
01:22:22,480 --> 01:22:25,760
going to work.

1265
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:27,240
Training is never going to work against you.

1266
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:29,160
Do you know what I mean?

1267
01:22:29,160 --> 01:22:32,520
It's going to work for you.

1268
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:40,400
Composure, taking your time, you know, making it count, whatever your actions are on the

1269
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:42,280
fire ground.

1270
01:22:42,280 --> 01:22:45,000
That just comes with time and experience.

1271
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:53,280
But if you're, while you're training, you're cognizant of, you know, real life while you're

1272
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:57,440
responding to automatic fire alarms and you're looking up at the building saying, what if

1273
01:22:57,440 --> 01:22:59,280
it was ripping out of those three windows?

1274
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:00,280
What would I do?

1275
01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:05,760
You know, I couldn't get, you know, there's, there's hotels here.

1276
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:08,920
When you walk down some of the hallways, both of your shoulders are touching the hall, you

1277
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:12,920
know, both sides of the hall because they've been grandfathered in, they were built in

1278
01:23:12,920 --> 01:23:18,600
the twenties or and, and you'd be screwed, you know, you'd be screwed if you got into

1279
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:23,600
a job there, you'd have to like make a hole in the side of the building to get down that

1280
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:24,600
hallway.

1281
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:29,200
So anyway, it's all by way of saying how you want to play the game.

1282
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:34,640
You know, if you want to be as professionally proficient as possible, keep your training

1283
01:23:34,640 --> 01:23:38,880
up, keep your bodily, you know, your physicality up.

1284
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:45,200
Huge important issue, I think, and I also stress that, you know, there's a lot of content

1285
01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:49,920
out there, how to train to do the job, how to physically stay in shape to do the job

1286
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:51,160
and you should be doing it.

1287
01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:57,480
You should be doing it because anything else less to me is irresponsible and it's, it's,

1288
01:23:57,480 --> 01:24:01,840
it's, it's like a slap in the face to your brother and sister members.

1289
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:02,840
Absolutely.

1290
01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:06,000
Well, I want to hit one more area and then we'll go to some closing questions.

1291
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:07,000
Yeah.

1292
01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:08,280
Come out of the strike now.

1293
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:14,800
I know Wakanda Forever was one of the ones you did Boston Strangler somewhat recently.

1294
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:18,440
What can we expect from you in this next year as you kind of wind back up again?

1295
01:24:18,440 --> 01:24:22,880
Gosh, I don't know.

1296
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:27,120
They're not going to be cranking anything up significantly between now and the new year.

1297
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:36,840
It just is untenable to think that you can do that unless you have jobs like, you know,

1298
01:24:36,840 --> 01:24:40,560
Law and Order, Chicago Fire, Med.

1299
01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:42,360
Those types of things are ensconced.

1300
01:24:42,360 --> 01:24:43,360
They're a system.

1301
01:24:43,360 --> 01:24:44,360
They're a machine.

1302
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:48,800
They just flip the switch and they can turn it on.

1303
01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:54,920
For myself, you know, we'll see what comes across in the new year.

1304
01:24:54,920 --> 01:25:01,360
Hopefully there'll be some, something interesting that I can get going on.

1305
01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:08,640
An old colleague that I started out with, Hal Hartley, will be doing the film in April

1306
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:14,880
called Where to Land with myself, Bill Sage, Edie Falco, Parker Posey.

1307
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:20,960
A lot of the actors and actors, well, the actors who he gave their start to.

1308
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:24,600
We were all colleagues at this one university.

1309
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:27,520
The actors were in the acting conservatory.

1310
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:33,440
He was in the film program and we made films for 30 years.

1311
01:25:33,440 --> 01:25:39,140
I did his first film, his third film, his fifth film.

1312
01:25:39,140 --> 01:25:44,120
This man, Hal Hartley, if he called me tonight and said, I need you to do a film at two o'clock

1313
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:47,000
in the morning, I would go and do it.

1314
01:25:47,000 --> 01:25:54,720
It's all, it's, you know, dark humor, indie kind of quality material, but it's fascinating.

1315
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:55,720
It's high minded.

1316
01:25:55,720 --> 01:25:56,720
It's funny as hell.

1317
01:25:56,720 --> 01:26:05,600
And a lot of great performers have come out of his work.

1318
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:07,600
So that's going to happen in April.

1319
01:26:07,600 --> 01:26:18,160
But other than that, you know, just now the scripts are feeding in mostly indie work.

1320
01:26:18,160 --> 01:26:23,880
So I'm reading a lot of stuff, but nothing very good yet.

1321
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:27,120
I'm just trying to keep the bar as high as possible.

1322
01:26:27,120 --> 01:26:29,960
Well, I want to move some closing questions.

1323
01:26:29,960 --> 01:26:32,640
It's been two years since we chatted.

1324
01:26:32,640 --> 01:26:37,480
The first one, is there a book that you love to recommend or books that can be related

1325
01:26:37,480 --> 01:26:41,440
to our discussion today or completely unrelated?

1326
01:26:41,440 --> 01:26:44,800
I read different things for different reasons.

1327
01:26:44,800 --> 01:26:55,960
I read a lot of theology, a lot of megalithic investigation, ancient architecture, history.

1328
01:26:55,960 --> 01:27:06,280
I love history, any type of history, American world, Irish mythology.

1329
01:27:06,280 --> 01:27:11,600
I just read a book called This is Happiness by Niall Williams.

1330
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:20,200
It talks about electricity coming to this West Clare, County Clare, West Clare town

1331
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:22,680
in Ireland in the early 50s.

1332
01:27:22,680 --> 01:27:26,600
It's so reminiscent of the conversations my parents used to have about Ireland because

1333
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:29,800
they left Ireland in the early 50s.

1334
01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:35,600
So unless you're like a first generation Irish kid, maybe you wouldn't get such a great kick

1335
01:27:35,600 --> 01:27:36,600
out of this.

1336
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:39,520
There's another guy, Kevin Corliss, My Father's Wake, another Irish.

1337
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:47,040
I like rhythms and layers and fabric and textures of literature that I identify with.

1338
01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:48,640
Do you know what I mean?

1339
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:52,880
I say do you know what I mean a lot?

1340
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:59,320
But right now I'm reading Strong Men by Ruth Ben-Guyette.

1341
01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:02,320
She's a political commentator.

1342
01:28:02,320 --> 01:28:06,320
I think she's brilliant.

1343
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:10,560
1619 is behind me.

1344
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:14,680
Thomas Merton, The Seeds of Contemplation.

1345
01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:16,800
That's a great one.

1346
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:22,720
Yeah, my wife says a Burke never throws away a book or a picture.

1347
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:25,320
So the pictures are on the phone.

1348
01:28:25,320 --> 01:28:27,480
But I don't do Kindle or anything like that.

1349
01:28:27,480 --> 01:28:28,480
I buy the book.

1350
01:28:28,480 --> 01:28:30,720
I like book.

1351
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:36,440
And you know what, to that point, I have to pick up my reading a little more.

1352
01:28:36,440 --> 01:28:39,440
My focus has gotten a little scattered.

1353
01:28:39,440 --> 01:28:47,720
The phone, you know, that can take away from the focus of reading.

1354
01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:56,320
But I was lucky that my parents and my sisters and my brother, we all were pretty good readers.

1355
01:28:56,320 --> 01:29:00,920
And that's where your world, my world opens.

1356
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:01,920
Brilliant.

1357
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:03,560
What about obviously you're in this industry.

1358
01:29:03,560 --> 01:29:08,720
What about films and or documentaries that you've loved the last couple of years?

1359
01:29:08,720 --> 01:29:10,680
I quite like that Beckham documentary.

1360
01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:11,680
That was really good.

1361
01:29:11,680 --> 01:29:14,720
I don't know what it was.

1362
01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:17,280
I just kept asking the question why?

1363
01:29:17,280 --> 01:29:19,320
You know, I'm not a big football.

1364
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:21,720
I'm not a football follower.

1365
01:29:21,720 --> 01:29:27,200
You know, I enjoy watching a good football match every once in a year.

1366
01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:34,680
But the you know, the British fans, you know, I understand the whole religious aspect to

1367
01:29:34,680 --> 01:29:38,960
it and cultural tribe identity and all these types of things.

1368
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:46,520
But man, they pull this poor guy and he has this.

1369
01:29:46,520 --> 01:29:53,680
Very hard to describe characteristically what you see is a thing.

1370
01:29:53,680 --> 01:30:01,280
He was he was so formulated and put together early on with his father and this game and

1371
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:05,000
these skills that was almost in his DNA.

1372
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:11,040
And so his DNA is coded to just get the football in the net.

1373
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:14,520
And the rest is just this exterior determinant.

1374
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:19,760
It has nothing to do with getting the ball in the net and it's almost in the DNA.

1375
01:30:19,760 --> 01:30:23,080
And I love that that he it weighed on him, I'm sure.

1376
01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:25,000
Listen, I'm not going to go off on this.

1377
01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:32,440
I just thought it was Fisher Stevens did it and it was very well put together.

1378
01:30:32,440 --> 01:30:42,040
The tone was very, very, very impressive, I thought, because it was so compelling.

1379
01:30:42,040 --> 01:30:44,560
My wife said, do you want to watch this one, I guess.

1380
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:46,600
Then all of a sudden I'm just hooked in.

1381
01:30:46,600 --> 01:30:54,160
So when things are possessive of these types of characteristics in a work, in a documentary,

1382
01:30:54,160 --> 01:30:59,160
in a painting, in a music, I'm always like, why was I so compelled?

1383
01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:00,160
Why was I so focused?

1384
01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:02,040
Why was I so hooked?

1385
01:31:02,040 --> 01:31:06,000
I always I always find it fascinating to answer those questions.

1386
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:10,800
And then you want more of something like that.

1387
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:14,240
But that's just popped out to me.

1388
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:18,080
Other than that, I can't think of any movies that I've seen.

1389
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:25,000
I've wanted to see, you know, Oppenheimer and I'm trying to think of what else.

1390
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:29,600
I just haven't gotten to see a lot of stuff.

1391
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:33,840
The one with the David Beckham, the one that restruck me was just like you said, you know,

1392
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:39,720
you've got this guy, world class footballer model, you know, all the things.

1393
01:31:39,720 --> 01:31:43,280
But then there's one scene, I know it kind of did the rounds on social media, too.

1394
01:31:43,280 --> 01:31:49,840
But Victoria Beckham is on a couch being interviewed and talking about her working class upbringing.

1395
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:56,120
And he peers out the door and was like, tell the tell the car that your father drove.

1396
01:31:56,120 --> 01:31:57,120
Tell the truth.

1397
01:31:57,120 --> 01:31:58,120
Tell it.

1398
01:31:58,120 --> 01:31:59,120
Tell it.

1399
01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:00,120
Tell it.

1400
01:32:00,120 --> 01:32:01,120
And she says, thank you.

1401
01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:03,120
And he just seemed like so down to earth.

1402
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:05,880
I was like, I could literally probably be friends with this bloke.

1403
01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:11,560
It doesn't seem like a lot of the, you know, the the people that we see chasing the paparazzi,

1404
01:32:11,560 --> 01:32:17,960
I'm not saying fame or acting makes you a bad person, but people that chase the fame

1405
01:32:17,960 --> 01:32:18,960
is different.

1406
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:22,520
And he's always been he's been on the in the limelight a lot, but he actually seems like

1407
01:32:22,520 --> 01:32:26,160
he just wants to just be a bloke.

1408
01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:30,000
And I think that's that's really endearing.

1409
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:31,640
And I think that's exactly true.

1410
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:37,360
But you see, what you just spoke to was a moment, a very good moment, a very honest,

1411
01:32:37,360 --> 01:32:40,520
genuine, authentic, funny moment.

1412
01:32:40,520 --> 01:32:47,400
And Francis Coppola and Martin Scorsese, when they talk about editing and filming, so you

1413
01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:51,960
have that moment and now you want another moment attached to that moment that's real

1414
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:52,960
and honest.

1415
01:32:52,960 --> 01:32:58,400
And I don't care if a guy's opening a door that it would be genuine and honest and compelling.

1416
01:32:58,400 --> 01:33:05,600
The next moment and then all of a sudden you have this string of moments, you know, and

1417
01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:07,400
that's what makes for a great work.

1418
01:33:07,400 --> 01:33:13,320
When you string them together, you know, there's no gap.

1419
01:33:13,320 --> 01:33:18,440
That's when they usually give you those little golden trophies, you know.

1420
01:33:18,440 --> 01:33:20,640
But it's very difficult to do.

1421
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:28,120
My mother in her Galway accent used to say to me, Robert, it's going to be a good film.

1422
01:33:28,120 --> 01:33:32,480
I'd say, ma, we make the good ones the same way we make the bad ones.

1423
01:33:32,480 --> 01:33:34,520
We show up, we try our best, you know.

1424
01:33:34,520 --> 01:33:36,000
They'd be like, oh, that was great.

1425
01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:37,320
They pat you on the back.

1426
01:33:37,320 --> 01:33:41,040
And then, you know, you go to the screening of it and it's like, what?

1427
01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:42,040
It's a disaster.

1428
01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:45,400
Or you go to say, hey, you know, this is pretty good.

1429
01:33:45,400 --> 01:33:46,400
You never really know.

1430
01:33:46,400 --> 01:33:48,680
See, sometimes you can get a feeling.

1431
01:33:48,680 --> 01:33:52,840
When they were shooting Tombstone, it just was so authentic.

1432
01:33:52,840 --> 01:34:00,040
And some of the work that the other actors were doing was just so, like, so unbelievably

1433
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:06,960
good that I felt I said this movie is going to turn out OK, I hope.

1434
01:34:06,960 --> 01:34:19,240
And it did through all of the drama and, you know, struggles that went on during that filming.

1435
01:34:19,240 --> 01:34:27,560
The director, writer, producer, Kevin Jarre being fired four or five weeks into production.

1436
01:34:27,560 --> 01:34:33,840
And then Kurt Russell just begged, borrow, steal anything to push it through.

1437
01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:37,000
And he's the unsung hero of that film.

1438
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:40,560
The production, the acting, everything.

1439
01:34:40,560 --> 01:34:44,580
He really just dragged it across the finish line.

1440
01:34:44,580 --> 01:34:51,040
So yeah, the question is, you know, have I seen anything recently?

1441
01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:53,440
And that's about it.

1442
01:34:53,440 --> 01:34:54,960
I can't even tell you what I watch.

1443
01:34:54,960 --> 01:34:57,680
I watch a lot of basketball, to tell you the truth.

1444
01:34:57,680 --> 01:34:58,680
NBA.

1445
01:34:58,680 --> 01:34:59,680
I like the NBA.

1446
01:34:59,680 --> 01:35:01,960
My son, my younger son got me into that.

1447
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:05,920
So we watch basketball 10 years now.

1448
01:35:05,920 --> 01:35:10,680
Well we have already discussed this and I'm not there yet, but I am writing a book that

1449
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:13,320
I want to turn into a series or a film.

1450
01:35:13,320 --> 01:35:18,600
So I hope a few years from now we might be discussing, you know, working together and

1451
01:35:18,600 --> 01:35:20,720
how we made it happen and all that stuff.

1452
01:35:20,720 --> 01:35:21,720
Because I am determined.

1453
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:27,680
Like to me, the way that you access the minds of most of us in the West is through the screen.

1454
01:35:27,680 --> 01:35:31,600
And you know, you hear Bander Brothers, you hear Tombstone, you hear Platoon, you know,

1455
01:35:31,600 --> 01:35:36,800
all these stories that really grab someone's heart and they couldn't turn away.

1456
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:43,720
I feel like the fire service is due a story that's compelling that educates people on

1457
01:35:43,720 --> 01:35:49,040
what we do today, but also highlights other areas that we see that most people never get

1458
01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:51,040
to see, you know, the lens that we have.

1459
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:56,720
So yeah, I'm putting it out there publicly now, but that's my goal one day is to have

1460
01:35:56,720 --> 01:36:01,160
a conversation down the road and have it already put out.

1461
01:36:01,160 --> 01:36:06,880
Well, they've seen a lot of it, but they haven't really seen any of it.

1462
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:12,680
You know, a lot of what they're shown is not the job.

1463
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:15,720
I mean, a lot of what they're shown is not the job.

1464
01:36:15,720 --> 01:36:21,120
There's one show, no matter what the commercial for the show is, I always yell from the kitchen,

1465
01:36:21,120 --> 01:36:22,120
it's gonna blow.

1466
01:36:22,120 --> 01:36:25,600
And then one of the actors goes, watch out, it's gonna blow.

1467
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:27,120
It could be anything.

1468
01:36:27,120 --> 01:36:30,960
I mean, no matter what the call is, it could be a cardiac arrest and something's gonna

1469
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:31,960
explode.

1470
01:36:31,960 --> 01:36:32,960
It's always exploding.

1471
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:38,840
I'm like, you know, I find that to be troublesome.

1472
01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:42,840
You know, it's just like, you want to just scream.

1473
01:36:42,840 --> 01:36:49,440
It's like, that's not, that's, you know, and there are ways to show it.

1474
01:36:49,440 --> 01:36:54,640
I think, you know, you sit down in a production meeting and you say, okay, you know, we have

1475
01:36:54,640 --> 01:36:59,440
a trapped mother and daughter, you know, how are we going to show this?

1476
01:36:59,440 --> 01:37:04,480
And if you want to show it realistically, I think it's really easy.

1477
01:37:04,480 --> 01:37:09,480
You know, some kid fumbling to get a space mask on, you know, properly and sliding down

1478
01:37:09,480 --> 01:37:13,080
the stairs because the first line has already opened up and he's the only one who knows

1479
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:14,080
they're in that room.

1480
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:18,880
And you know, the rescue guys are blocking the, you know, there's a myriad of ways to

1481
01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:27,140
show how potentially this rescue can be affected dramatically and realistically.

1482
01:37:27,140 --> 01:37:30,080
But usually it never portrayed that way.

1483
01:37:30,080 --> 01:37:33,880
Usually it's portrayed like they say in a Hollywood way.

1484
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:38,360
And funny enough, ironically enough, the ones we remember are the ones that are portrayed

1485
01:37:38,360 --> 01:37:39,360
realistically.

1486
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:40,360
Do you know Jason Patton?

1487
01:37:40,360 --> 01:37:41,360
Have you had him?

1488
01:37:41,360 --> 01:37:42,360
Yes, I have.

1489
01:37:42,360 --> 01:37:43,360
Yep.

1490
01:37:43,360 --> 01:37:44,360
Yeah.

1491
01:37:44,360 --> 01:37:56,280
So he does this, you know, the Instagram, the satirical sketches about first responders,

1492
01:37:56,280 --> 01:37:58,080
fire service paramedics and stuff.

1493
01:37:58,080 --> 01:38:01,160
And it's hilarious because he's going way over the top, but you know what?

1494
01:38:01,160 --> 01:38:02,160
It's all real.

1495
01:38:02,160 --> 01:38:03,160
It's all true.

1496
01:38:03,160 --> 01:38:06,400
It's all based in reality, but he's going so over the top.

1497
01:38:06,400 --> 01:38:12,840
And then he does a critique of certain of these shows where, you know, he'll stop the

1498
01:38:12,840 --> 01:38:17,240
camera and he'll interject, hey, why don't you just open up the hose?

1499
01:38:17,240 --> 01:38:19,720
You know, your problems will go away.

1500
01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:26,560
So he's really, really funny with his, you know, cut up of certain of these shows that

1501
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:34,480
just don't really have any basis at all, even remotely in the reality of fire service, fire

1502
01:38:34,480 --> 01:38:37,640
response, fire ground operations.

1503
01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:39,920
Like not even remotely.

1504
01:38:39,920 --> 01:38:45,760
Every once in a while, yeah, but how many kids are you going to, you know, come out

1505
01:38:45,760 --> 01:38:47,640
of the building running with, you know?

1506
01:38:47,640 --> 01:38:52,840
How about if somebody's 400 pounds and, you know, they're in the stairwell with you, then

1507
01:38:52,840 --> 01:38:53,840
what does it look like?

1508
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:57,720
It doesn't look so heroic, dramatic and heroic.

1509
01:38:57,720 --> 01:38:59,000
No, it's very sloppy.

1510
01:38:59,000 --> 01:39:00,000
It's very scary.

1511
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:02,320
It's very horrible.

1512
01:39:02,320 --> 01:39:03,580
But that's the job.

1513
01:39:03,580 --> 01:39:04,580
That's the job.

1514
01:39:04,580 --> 01:39:05,580
You know?

1515
01:39:05,580 --> 01:39:06,580
Absolutely.

1516
01:39:06,580 --> 01:39:08,880
Well, yeah, we will see.

1517
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:09,880
Watch this space.

1518
01:39:09,880 --> 01:39:15,160
But, all right, well then the next question, I'm pretty sure I asked you this and you've

1519
01:39:15,160 --> 01:39:18,760
sent me some people as well, but since the last couple of years, is there a person you

1520
01:39:18,760 --> 01:39:23,560
recommend to come on this podcast as a guest to speak to the first responders, military

1521
01:39:23,560 --> 01:39:27,320
and associate your professions with the world?

1522
01:39:27,320 --> 01:39:30,440
Who you haven't had on already?

1523
01:39:30,440 --> 01:39:34,760
Gosh, I'd have to think.

1524
01:39:34,760 --> 01:39:39,760
I'd have to think about that.

1525
01:39:39,760 --> 01:39:40,760
You haven't had Dennis.

1526
01:39:40,760 --> 01:39:41,760
Dennis Leary?

1527
01:39:41,760 --> 01:39:42,760
Not yet.

1528
01:39:42,760 --> 01:39:43,760
Not yet.

1529
01:39:43,760 --> 01:39:44,760
Yeah.

1530
01:39:44,760 --> 01:39:50,200
See, I don't even know if he does first responder or firefighter.

1531
01:39:50,200 --> 01:39:51,200
He's very humble.

1532
01:39:51,200 --> 01:39:54,800
He's always said, you know, I'm just the face, you guys do the job.

1533
01:39:54,800 --> 01:40:00,960
But he's been around the fire service for a long time since the Worcester Cold Storage

1534
01:40:00,960 --> 01:40:02,720
Fire.

1535
01:40:02,720 --> 01:40:13,240
This man has shaken the hands and stood by and given emotional support to so many people.

1536
01:40:13,240 --> 01:40:14,760
You have no idea.

1537
01:40:14,760 --> 01:40:18,040
I mean, it's just overwhelming to tell you the truth.

1538
01:40:18,040 --> 01:40:24,240
I'm not even sure if he's cognizant of all the help and I say emotional support and,

1539
01:40:24,240 --> 01:40:29,400
you know, the laughter and the comedian and the comic aspect of it.

1540
01:40:29,400 --> 01:40:39,560
But his fire service and all the money and all the material and all the training that

1541
01:40:39,560 --> 01:40:50,360
he's supported over the years has gotten, you know, his service, I mean, this is going

1542
01:40:50,360 --> 01:40:56,960
on over, you know, it's almost, it's over two decades.

1543
01:40:56,960 --> 01:40:58,640
Never got mission fatigue.

1544
01:40:58,640 --> 01:41:00,880
Never said, you know what, I think I've had enough.

1545
01:41:00,880 --> 01:41:02,720
I'm not going to do it anymore.

1546
01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:05,440
Just let it die on the vine.

1547
01:41:05,440 --> 01:41:07,680
With Dennis, it's exactly the opposite.

1548
01:41:07,680 --> 01:41:09,720
He keeps up in the ante.

1549
01:41:09,720 --> 01:41:14,520
Like seven or eight years ago, it's like, Burke, we're not having a fucking dinner anymore.

1550
01:41:14,520 --> 01:41:17,720
We're going to have people come to the FDNY Academy and bust their ass.

1551
01:41:17,720 --> 01:41:19,200
I'm like, okay.

1552
01:41:19,200 --> 01:41:21,360
Like, that's what happened.

1553
01:41:21,360 --> 01:41:26,920
So now he invites executives and companies and you pay X amount and you push a line and

1554
01:41:26,920 --> 01:41:32,120
you repel and you drag, you know, the dummy out and you, you know, knock down three, four

1555
01:41:32,120 --> 01:41:34,640
rooms of real fire.

1556
01:41:34,640 --> 01:41:44,560
You know, you respond to subway emergencies, MVA extrication, you know, using the tools.

1557
01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:51,040
So his concept was, you know, it's easy to write a check, but if you've actually had

1558
01:41:51,040 --> 01:41:56,460
the cutters and, you know, you sweat all day long at the fire Academy, next time you hear

1559
01:41:56,460 --> 01:41:58,760
a siren, you've got a little more skin in the game.

1560
01:41:58,760 --> 01:41:59,760
You know what I mean?

1561
01:41:59,760 --> 01:42:07,280
He's very, very, very sensitized and cognizant to what goes into being a first responder.

1562
01:42:07,280 --> 01:42:16,120
So he is a guy, I cannot say enough, you know, in the fire service community, he's venerated

1563
01:42:16,120 --> 01:42:21,360
and again, you know, you wouldn't think he, you wouldn't say he's a humble guy because

1564
01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:22,360
I don't think he's aware.

1565
01:42:22,360 --> 01:42:25,160
I don't think he sits down and thinks about it to tell you the truth.

1566
01:42:25,160 --> 01:42:28,400
He just keeps doing it.

1567
01:42:28,400 --> 01:42:33,480
And for any man to never have fatigued because I've seen it, I've seen it with veterans,

1568
01:42:33,480 --> 01:42:36,920
I've seen it with a lot of different people who, you know, their intentions are good,

1569
01:42:36,920 --> 01:42:40,080
but they flame out, they get fatigued.

1570
01:42:40,080 --> 01:42:43,400
They don't want, I did my piece.

1571
01:42:43,400 --> 01:42:44,900
That's not been his experience.

1572
01:42:44,900 --> 01:42:48,440
He just keeps pushing it more and more and more.

1573
01:42:48,440 --> 01:42:52,560
And yeah, so I would think he would be a great guest.

1574
01:42:52,560 --> 01:42:53,560
Beautiful.

1575
01:42:53,560 --> 01:42:54,560
Yeah.

1576
01:42:54,560 --> 01:42:58,300
And I'm working on a few and, you know, obviously that would be amazing.

1577
01:42:58,300 --> 01:43:02,080
If we made it happen again, like you said, very busy and pulled a thousand ways, but

1578
01:43:02,080 --> 01:43:07,680
I think him, obviously Steve Buscemi, you know, Gary Sinise, some of these people that

1579
01:43:07,680 --> 01:43:12,160
have been so embedded in fire and military, you know, it would be great to hear some of

1580
01:43:12,160 --> 01:43:13,160
their stories.

1581
01:43:13,160 --> 01:43:17,720
Because like you said, they are humble, but I don't think they realize how grateful our

1582
01:43:17,720 --> 01:43:20,600
communities are for what they've done.

1583
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:23,200
So it wouldn't be a, and what was it like?

1584
01:43:23,200 --> 01:43:26,920
Horace Gump, it would actually be, you know, talk to me about, and how did you become this

1585
01:43:26,920 --> 01:43:32,040
amazing human when so many people are self-serving and you've been altruistic with the opposition?

1586
01:43:32,040 --> 01:43:34,520
Those are the kind of views I'd love to hear.

1587
01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:35,520
Yeah.

1588
01:43:35,520 --> 01:43:38,880
You two great examples, Steve Buscemi and Gary Sinise.

1589
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:48,920
Gary played Lieutenant Dan and probably met a bunch of wounded veterans and disabled veterans.

1590
01:43:48,920 --> 01:43:53,160
And then just, you know, something probably clicked, you know, and I totally identify

1591
01:43:53,160 --> 01:43:54,160
with that.

1592
01:43:54,160 --> 01:43:59,960
He has been, I can't even say enough about, I used to think there was six or seven of

1593
01:43:59,960 --> 01:44:04,400
the guy, cause one minute he's in Afghanistan, the next minute he's building a house in,

1594
01:44:04,400 --> 01:44:09,240
you know, Pennsylvania, the next minute, you know, he would just seem to be everywhere,

1595
01:44:09,240 --> 01:44:12,840
really super effective, getting a lot done.

1596
01:44:12,840 --> 01:44:17,880
And again, no mission fatigue keeps up in the ante.

1597
01:44:17,880 --> 01:44:23,160
And the same thing with Steve Buscemi and his work with friends of firefighters.

1598
01:44:23,160 --> 01:44:27,680
He always turns out for Dennis Leary at the FDNY Academy each year.

1599
01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:37,760
And yeah, I think, you know, when you're directly affected sometimes by loss, you know, you

1600
01:44:37,760 --> 01:44:44,400
have to make sense of the loss and that's what informs, you know, Dennis lost his cousin,

1601
01:44:44,400 --> 01:44:50,280
Jeremiah Lucy and, you know, his good friend firefighter Spade.

1602
01:44:50,280 --> 01:44:55,360
And yeah, so that loss, you have to make sense of it.

1603
01:44:55,360 --> 01:44:58,640
And action is a good way to make sense.

1604
01:44:58,640 --> 01:45:00,800
You know, you can say, oh, I miss Jimmy.

1605
01:45:00,800 --> 01:45:07,160
Well, yeah, you know, maybe you can show me how much you miss him rather than tell me.

1606
01:45:07,160 --> 01:45:13,240
And all those men, Leary, Sinise and Buscemi are men of action, I believe.

1607
01:45:13,240 --> 01:45:14,240
Absolutely.

1608
01:45:14,240 --> 01:45:15,240
All right.

1609
01:45:15,240 --> 01:45:19,600
Well, then the last question before we make sure people know where to find you, what do

1610
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:22,200
you do to decompress these days?

1611
01:45:22,200 --> 01:45:29,920
I'm at the firehouse a lot.

1612
01:45:29,920 --> 01:45:34,120
I have contractors who drive by and say, hey, Bob, I'll give you a job.

1613
01:45:34,120 --> 01:45:36,600
I'll pay you to do it.

1614
01:45:36,600 --> 01:45:39,000
I train, I work out a lot.

1615
01:45:39,000 --> 01:45:40,000
Decompression.

1616
01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:46,080
I'm going to let the ocean get a few more degrees colder and then we'll go for swims,

1617
01:45:46,080 --> 01:45:48,320
winter swims.

1618
01:45:48,320 --> 01:45:49,320
I like doing that.

1619
01:45:49,320 --> 01:45:51,760
I started doing that with my sons.

1620
01:45:51,760 --> 01:45:52,760
Decompress.

1621
01:45:52,760 --> 01:45:58,280
Well, I live on the coast of the Atlantic Ocean, you know, and all I got to do is go

1622
01:45:58,280 --> 01:46:06,320
outside and walk on that beach and you know, you're decompressed.

1623
01:46:06,320 --> 01:46:11,960
Yard work, housework, carpentry, that type of stuff.

1624
01:46:11,960 --> 01:46:13,440
But I like the service.

1625
01:46:13,440 --> 01:46:14,800
Like we were just in the firehouse.

1626
01:46:14,800 --> 01:46:19,640
We're getting this new bay door and the place is a wreck.

1627
01:46:19,640 --> 01:46:24,480
We're cycling off engines for maintenance.

1628
01:46:24,480 --> 01:46:31,240
Put together these new racks for our gear, you know, and how to transport everybody's

1629
01:46:31,240 --> 01:46:36,520
gear properly onto the new racks and just, you know, just being over there working and

1630
01:46:36,520 --> 01:46:37,520
doing stuff.

1631
01:46:37,520 --> 01:46:39,960
I really enjoy it.

1632
01:46:39,960 --> 01:46:40,960
It's fun.

1633
01:46:40,960 --> 01:46:41,960
It's fun.

1634
01:46:41,960 --> 01:46:42,960
It's community.

1635
01:46:42,960 --> 01:46:43,960
It's fellowship.

1636
01:46:43,960 --> 01:46:44,960
It's a little bit of ball-breaking.

1637
01:46:44,960 --> 01:46:49,200
So, it's a lot of fun.

1638
01:46:49,200 --> 01:46:50,200
It's a lot of fun.

1639
01:46:50,200 --> 01:46:51,200
Beautiful.

1640
01:46:51,200 --> 01:46:56,920
Well, for people listening, where are the best places to find you online?

1641
01:46:56,920 --> 01:47:03,240
James Comey, the former head of the FBI said the internet is like a large dark parking

1642
01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:04,240
lot.

1643
01:47:04,240 --> 01:47:07,400
It's like, you know, that you should be very wary about walking.

1644
01:47:07,400 --> 01:47:08,960
So, I don't really push that aspect.

1645
01:47:08,960 --> 01:47:10,680
You find me, you find me.

1646
01:47:10,680 --> 01:47:16,120
Yeah, I'm, you know, very circumspect about a lot of it.

1647
01:47:16,120 --> 01:47:19,160
You know, it's, oh, Jimmy has a hundred thousand followers.

1648
01:47:19,160 --> 01:47:24,720
Yeah, well, you know, 70,000 of them are robots, you know, it's like or bots.

1649
01:47:24,720 --> 01:47:26,480
It's a very strange prospect.

1650
01:47:26,480 --> 01:47:29,360
So, I try to keep my foot on the brake.

1651
01:47:29,360 --> 01:47:30,360
Beautiful.

1652
01:47:30,360 --> 01:47:32,080
Well, I want to thank you so much.

1653
01:47:32,080 --> 01:47:35,880
It's been another great conversation, arguably better than the one that we deleted.

1654
01:47:35,880 --> 01:47:41,360
Yeah, well, yeah, we'll see.

1655
01:47:41,360 --> 01:47:42,360
What happened?

1656
01:47:42,360 --> 01:47:43,360
I can't remember.

1657
01:47:43,360 --> 01:47:44,360
I was exhausted.

1658
01:47:44,360 --> 01:47:45,360
I remember that day.

1659
01:47:45,360 --> 01:47:49,960
And I remember just trying to come up with answers and I just wasn't feeling myself.

1660
01:47:49,960 --> 01:47:51,520
Yeah, well, I wasn't on the other end.

1661
01:47:51,520 --> 01:47:52,520
I forget now.

1662
01:47:52,520 --> 01:47:58,400
I think I'd done a load of recordings prior to, I think, going and knowing I was going

1663
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:00,200
to be gone for a few weeks.

1664
01:48:00,200 --> 01:48:02,160
And so, I had front loaded as well.

1665
01:48:02,160 --> 01:48:03,880
So, it was just both of us being tired.

1666
01:48:03,880 --> 01:48:05,440
This is a beautiful thing about this.

1667
01:48:05,440 --> 01:48:06,440
We can have a great conversation.

1668
01:48:06,440 --> 01:48:07,440
It doesn't matter if it's recorded or not.

1669
01:48:07,440 --> 01:48:08,440
You want to do another one?

1670
01:48:08,440 --> 01:48:10,520
Yeah, let's do another one.

1671
01:48:10,520 --> 01:48:13,720
That code was out of Heathrow or Gatwick?

1672
01:48:13,720 --> 01:48:14,720
Heathrow, yeah.

1673
01:48:14,720 --> 01:48:15,720
Heathrow.

1674
01:48:15,720 --> 01:48:16,720
Jeez, the waist.

1675
01:48:16,720 --> 01:48:18,200
And what airline were you flying?

1676
01:48:18,200 --> 01:48:19,920
Virgin, Virgin Atlantic.

1677
01:48:19,920 --> 01:48:25,720
And they, again, amazing respect to all the men and women that were on there.

1678
01:48:25,720 --> 01:48:31,040
Two went home and respect to them for knowing that they needed to go boo their families

1679
01:48:31,040 --> 01:48:32,080
at that point.

1680
01:48:32,080 --> 01:48:35,000
And then again, huge respect for people that stayed.

1681
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:39,920
And then, huge respect to the people on the plane too, because from what they told me,

1682
01:48:39,920 --> 01:48:44,760
the people that were working, they said that the whole passenger group, everyone was super

1683
01:48:44,760 --> 01:48:46,600
understanding and pathetic as well.

1684
01:48:46,600 --> 01:48:48,640
So, I got to see humanity that day.

1685
01:48:48,640 --> 01:48:51,920
And a little part of the video I made was like, that's humans.

1686
01:48:51,920 --> 01:48:53,920
That's what we're supposed to be.

1687
01:48:53,920 --> 01:48:55,960
We need community, not division.

1688
01:48:55,960 --> 01:48:59,600
Boy, is that true.

1689
01:48:59,600 --> 01:49:00,600
Yeah.

1690
01:49:00,600 --> 01:49:01,600
Wow.

1691
01:49:01,600 --> 01:49:05,320
What an experience to have had.

1692
01:49:05,320 --> 01:49:09,960
But you did your part during that day.

1693
01:49:09,960 --> 01:49:11,960
So good man.

1694
01:49:11,960 --> 01:49:12,960
Good man.

1695
01:49:12,960 --> 01:49:16,760
You could have just sat in your seat and just said, I'm not in the game anymore, but you

1696
01:49:16,760 --> 01:49:17,760
didn't.

1697
01:49:17,760 --> 01:49:18,760
Yeah.

1698
01:49:18,760 --> 01:49:20,360
I don't think we have that capacity in this job.

1699
01:49:20,360 --> 01:49:22,760
That's why I never say I'm a retired firefighter.

1700
01:49:22,760 --> 01:49:26,720
If you pass a wreck or a kid's choking, you're not going to be like, well, I'm collecting

1701
01:49:26,720 --> 01:49:28,280
my pension, which I don't have, by the way.

1702
01:49:28,280 --> 01:49:29,280
But if I did.

1703
01:49:29,280 --> 01:49:34,360
My wife was like, we can't have one more fire extinguisher in our car.

1704
01:49:34,360 --> 01:49:37,640
I've got the whole rescue Randy set up in mind.

1705
01:49:37,640 --> 01:49:38,640
Yeah.

1706
01:49:38,640 --> 01:49:44,160
She said the lithium ion, they're impervious to chem anyway.

1707
01:49:44,160 --> 01:49:47,920
So it's like, unless you're carrying copious amounts of water, you're not going to be

1708
01:49:47,920 --> 01:49:48,920
effectual.

1709
01:49:48,920 --> 01:49:55,480
But anyway, well, James, really good to speak with you and glad your father is doing better

1710
01:49:55,480 --> 01:50:02,280
and that you were able to be there for him, super important and glad you're doing okay

1711
01:50:02,280 --> 01:50:25,720
as per the fallout from that plane ride.