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This episode is sponsored by Newcom and as many of you know, I only bring sponsors onto

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this show whose products I truly swear by.

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We are an overworked and under slept population, especially those of us that wear uniform for

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

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the show Belfast native Royal Marine and actor Tip Cullen.

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Now in this conversation we discuss a host of topics from experiencing the troubles as

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a child, his journey into the British military, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, his transition

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out, his journey into acting, mental health, leadership and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredible conversation as I say every week, please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and

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leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of well over 850 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

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I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Tip Cullen.

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Enjoy.

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the show.

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I'm in what we call this side of the pond as the sunny southwest.

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So I live in the southwest of England and there's reason for that is when I first my

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first commander, you know, I arrived in was in the southwest and that's where I sort of

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laid my roots this side off the Irish sea.

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Obviously where I'm really from and where my genes and my blood come from are from the

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Emerald Isle.

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I'm an Irish man who just went to his own path.

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Well let's start there because I love to, you know, begin literally at zero on someone's

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timeline and walk through.

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So tell me exactly where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic,

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what your parents did, how many siblings?

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Right, I joined, well born in late 60s in Belfast in what is Northern Ireland on the

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island of Ireland and I was born, I think if you could chronologically measure it, I

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was born about six months before the Northern Irish trouble started.

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So I grew up in Belfast surrounded by that and thinking that that was, that's what the

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world was about and that was the thing.

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So I loved it.

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It was brilliant.

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It was a great adventure and I learned so much even in those days, but it was definitely

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in hindsight, it wasn't what you classifies a normal sort of upbringing being brought

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up in a, in a bit of a hostile environment.

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But again, I'm not, let's say, say I don't have a monopoly on that, especially in today's

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world, the way things are happening.

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So yeah, I can, I can empathize massively with people that are enduring hardship at

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the minute.

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So there seemed to, and again, I'm, I'm naive to this.

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I definitely got to experience, you know, the threat.

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I grew up next to on a farm next to an MOD base.

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So we would have to sweep the car for bombs and that kind of thing.

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When I was a young man, I was born 74.

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So not too long after you, but I didn't live in Belfast.

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I've had people on the show.

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Some were Falklands veterans.

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They served in New Orleans Island as well.

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And you obviously get a different perspective.

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I had an author on who grew up, you know, as a, an Irishman in, in Belfast.

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What lens were you kind of brought up in, in your household because you had, you know,

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Catholic and Protestant, then you had, you know, the, the people that wanted independence

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for Ireland and the people that were loyal to the UK.

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So kind of what, what was the conversation around the dinner table for you and your family?

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Oh, man, I'm a, I'm from the Irish Catholic tradition.

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So I was brought up as, you know, I'd say in a nationalist family, probably Republican,

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but in a, in a peaceful sort of sense, we're very, very strong and very human people, but

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they were, yeah, they were, you know, it's definitely a nationalist or Republican background.

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And the community I grew up in was, was a nationalist and Republican background.

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So that's what I grew up in.

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And let's say I enjoyed it.

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I really, really did enjoy it.

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It may be this extremely strong character, I think, before I had my destiny, which was

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to become a Royal Marine.

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And through my time growing up, obviously I aspire from a very young age to become a

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Royal Marine, but growing up through those years, you, you know, I think it created me

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into a non-political type of thing and a non-sectarian and a non-religious type of person, because

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you grew up in that.

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I think it took me to step away from it, to realize, you know, how being that binary and,

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you know, as you're being brought up in, in like sort of religious and political sort

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of views, you do need to step away sometimes and have a look in from the outside.

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And I'm glad I made that decision and done what I'd done.

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And then when I went, joined the Royal Marines, I went back and I served in Northern Ireland.

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I'd done four tours there, but for me, it was very much important that I did do that.

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I think a lot of people probably critique me for it, but I, I did it not as a, you know,

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not as holding the ground for the British Empire or anything like that.

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I'd done it to stop Irish people killing other Irish people, killing other people that thought

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they were British, killing Polish people, Welsh people, Filipino people.

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There's so many different people have lost their lives from different cultures in the

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Northern Ireland troubles, but I was purely to stop death and destruction and feed hopefully

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a peaceful solution for something that's very, well, it's me, I'm an Irish man.

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You know, he was, you know, it's important for me to look after my people, no matter

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what their political allegiance or religious allegiance was, it was just stopping people

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kill other people.

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Ever since I was little, I've always struggled with this idea of Irish, English, Scottish,

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Welsh, and people, especially overseas would be like, Oh, you must hate the Irish or the

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Scottish.

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I'm like, we're on two tiny little pebbles in the middle of the sea, just us, you know,

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and if you look at our lineage, I mean, the Celts and all that, I mean, there's so much

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into, you know, into relationships between those four countries, there's no real walls,

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you know, I mean, maybe in Belfast specifically, but I mean, you know, as far as each of the

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countries.

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And so then when you look at the fact that there were times when, you know, whether it's

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way back in British history or more recently in the troubles that Brits were killing Brits

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or, you know, and or Irish, you know, whatever, I wish there was a name for all of us, all

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four of us, you know, a non political name for all of us together.

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And it just it's so sad.

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And I remember even John Graham, who's he was a power originally and then became SAS

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and he was in the Falklands on Goose Green.

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And you know, he was talking about just how, how weird it was, like, like you said, like,

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we were killing ourselves, we were fighting amongst ourselves.

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So I've heard you talk, there was a DTD podcast, you're on American veteran and police officer

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officer.

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And you constantly talk about this humanity, seeing the commonality in people when some

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people were drawn down a political path or drawn down a religious path.

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What made you stay in that kind of humanitarian middle ground where you saw humans as humans,

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even when you were young?

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I think it was my upbringing that made me sort of stay on the middle ground as such.

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But growing up as a young man in Belfast, I did veer from it.

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I did.

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I did think sometimes that I was part of the, you know, the rebellion to fight the empire

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and everything else.

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And I think every young person will get will get pulled into that legion.

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And I think that's probably where influences from maybe say bad influences, well as good

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influences.

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It happens in those formative years.

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But for me growing up, I did stray.

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I did.

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I wasn't, I was not a perfect young child or teenager, but I had, I think I came from

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family and, and in a way, so a certain level of faith as well that, that made me, you know,

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stay in the middle ground and just respect people.

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And understand that human beings are human beings.

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And I think that was from my, from my mother and father definitely, that was completely,

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you know, press, you know, not press, just, you know, it was, it was enforced.

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It was like, it's important.

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It was about human beings.

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And that's, you know, that stayed with me throughout, you know, my time on operations,

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you know, all those years in the core.

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And I think it wasn't at that stage when I was younger, my formative years, but as I

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got older and I did deploy, I realized that was so, so right.

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That human beings are human beings.

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And we all wish and want exactly the same sort of things, you know, you know, the simple

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things like, you know, food, clothing, shelter, education, all those simple things, no matter

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where your culture is or where your background is, where your country is, that's exactly

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what you want.

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And that was instilled in me, even though I'd say, because the situation in, in Belfast

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at the time, there was a lot of things to draw your way, you know, attractions or things,

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you know, adventures and to get normally involved.

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So we say, we say a civil disorder in some way, or, you know, something you were, you

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were breaking the mold with.

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And we were gifted by having this threat of being caught up in a, you know, a gun battle

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or a riot where there's petrol bombs, there's plastic bullets getting thrown about.

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There's, you know what I mean?

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There's all sorts of things.

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And to be honest, when you're young at that time and you're a young, young man, it's a

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bit of a badge of honor, isn't it?

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To sort of do those sort of things.

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I wouldn't like to go on up too much, like with my parents here and obviously what I

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went on to do afterwards, but that was very much part of the culture.

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And it was, and I can't say I didn't enjoy it.

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I really frowned upon it if, if my sons were in that environment and faced the same sort

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of thing.

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But the challenges that my parents had, I didn't have those challenges with my kids

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growing up.

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So it's a very different thing.

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So in a way I've been blessed.

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I'm so glad to have parents that guided me through the, the minefield of youth in Belfast

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and in the Troubles really.

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When you look at how your kids grew up, what were the limitations that you were unaware

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of as a child growing up in the Troubles in Belfast, if any at all?

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Oh no, there's massive limitations, especially to decided by, you know, the cutting of your

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cloth or where you were, you know, what, what tribal community you came from.

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When I grew up playing the Gaelic games, playing Gaelic football, hurling, handball and basketball.

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And they were in my primary school and my, my second school, high school, all we played

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was Irish games or American games.

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You never played half American football.

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We just played basketball, handball we called it, which is a GAA sport, hurling and Gaelic

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football.

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And I loved them, absolutely loved them.

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But what I, you know, even, even though Ireland's got an unbelievable rugby team now, we never

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had really had that opportunity when I was young.

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I'm the first time I played rugby, we had the opportunity to play.

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It was when I joined the Marines and it's very limited because you're busy people in

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the, in the core, but I just loved it.

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It was magical.

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And I just thought, you know, you know, that, that option wasn't, wasn't there for me.

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It is not, it is now open, you know, across the thing, but, but in the young days it wasn't.

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And also you were limited by the, so the environment in Northern Ireland in those days.

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I mean, I remember before I went away and joined the Marines, the only, the only flag

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in Northern Ireland, it was illegal to fly, was the Irish flag.

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And I had this sort of like logic on why is, why is it that we, this is the only flag that

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you can't really fly in Northern Ireland is the Irish flag.

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But you know what I mean?

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And it was a very, should we say you were very, I wouldn't say, yeah, I would say in

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a way you're quite oppressed.

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You mean you were, you were, you know, in those periods in the, you know, the seventies

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and eighties growing up in that part of Ireland, you were, it was, you know, it was still a

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very oppressive regime in the area I lived in.

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You mean, and you had to, wherever you moved anywhere, went to do, or you'd be searched,

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you'd be stopped, you'd be, you know what I mean?

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And there's like, you know, there'd be a soldier like pointing a weapon at you at the end of

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the street, which we took for normal and granted.

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And well, I think that's not, not with, you know, well, anybody else in the United Kingdom,

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you know, or even the insights in the rest of Ireland would be seeing day to day, you

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know, and, and hearing the bombs going off and hearing like the runs going down that

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you could, you know, it was things that you grew up with.

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Jumping forward.

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And I'm just interested to get your perspective before we move on with your journey into the

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military.

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I first came to America in 94, I did summer camp.

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So it was like an exchange program that we do for three months, come work on a summer

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camp and then go home.

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And I remember this real romanticism with the IRA and Mickey Rourke did a film and supposedly

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donated all the proceeds, et cetera, et cetera.

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Then 9-11 happened and all of a sudden it didn't seem like terrorism was, you know,

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revered anymore.

254
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That's just a British kid who had to search for bombs under his car.

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And you know, on the mainland we had attacks and, you know, a lot of times it was civilians,

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innocent civilians that were killed.

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With your perspective, what was it that kind of helped end a lot of the violence there

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and try and bring some of the peace?

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Was it related at all to money coming from America and 9-11 or is it just complete coincidence

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through my eyes?

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Like I say, I'm not a politician.

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I'm just speaking from my experience.

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But from my experience, I think people in that part of Ireland were just completely

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battle weary.

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And I don't know the sort of like, you know, the strategic or tactical angle from, you

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know, the IRA or the army council or things like that.

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I don't.

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But there's a realisation that the political path or a peaceful process would have to be

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the way forward.

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And I think this, I mean, it's a spooky thing because just three months ago or in August

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I'd done a play about the Falklands war in Jerusalem in Israel.

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And the people that we were there and came to see us that knew all of the audience was

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veterans, but all they were seeking at the time and a lot of them had done multiple operations,

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multiple war fighting roles.

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Some of them like were in the Six Day War and the recent Lebanon Wars and the 80s Lebanon

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Wars.

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All they wanted was resolution and to get that generation.

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And you need generations to pass through where talking is the MO, the motor stopper, and

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I forget things to happen rather than fighting.

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And I think when you're, it's your own people, that's got to be fundamental because it's

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just survivability for human beings.

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What was the play that you did on the Falklands?

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00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,720
It wasn't Welcome Home by Tony Marchant was it?

284
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:37,920
No, no, it was called Minefield by Lula Arias and she's an Argentinian playwright.

285
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And the play was first conceived, it had three Falkland war veterans and three Malvinas war

286
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veterans.

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And I joined because Lou Armour, who's a legend who I knew grew up when I joined obviously

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after but I knew him in the corps, he was an incredible guy, he decided he didn't want

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to be part of the play anymore.

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And they were coming up for the 40th anniversary of the Falklands war and they were going to

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be performing in Buenos Aires over that period and he couldn't do it.

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So they reached out for, you know, and spoke to me and said, look, you're a veteran, you're

293
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former Marines command.

294
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I said, well, I wasn't in the Falklands, I joined the Marines after the Falklands.

295
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So we don't really want another veteran, but we want somebody who can act and, you know,

296
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:25,520
do it.

297
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,640
Played sort of multiple roles as part of the ensemble as well as playing the character

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of Lou in the play.

299
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:41,000
And I did that in Buenos Aires for five or six weeks last year in 2022.

300
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And then this year we took it to Israel.

301
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,440
But before that, when Lou was part of the part of the gang, they'd done a world tour,

302
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,720
they'd been there, they'd been in the West End.

303
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You know, it's a very successful play.

304
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,280
But I have to admit, it's an issue when I get into it.

305
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,000
I had six days from rehearsals from London and Argentina.

306
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There's a script.

307
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:05,480
You've got six days and then we're opening to the, it was the Deputy President of Argentina,

308
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the British ambassador, the US ambassador, Japanese ambassador, German ambassador.

309
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That was the opening night.

310
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The thousand seat stage at the Teatro San Martin in Buenos Aires.

311
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It's incredible, an incredible atmosphere, incredible people and an incredibly strong

312
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:22,800
play.

313
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:28,080
And up at that stage, because obviously half the play is in English and half is in Spanish.

314
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,880
And obviously I was listening to the guys and I do a little bit of Spanish and I still

315
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:38,400
got to understand, you know, that, you know, you could tell Ruben was on the Belgrano when

316
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:39,400
it was sunk.

317
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You know, and I could, you know, I could snippet it.

318
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:46,560
And then, but whilst I'm looking at the audience during the dress rehearsals, the director

319
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,720
said, just, just have a look, have a look and, you know, just read the story.

320
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,280
So you, you, you fully got it.

321
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:56,920
So instead of being playing my part, I would look, look on Reddit and they were, they were

322
00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:02,520
absolutely, you know, I mean, they would, you know, just hit me and mostly just hit

323
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:07,800
me straight away how raw it was and how positive these three men were considering what they'd

324
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:13,560
been through as constricts in the Malvinas Falklands war, the Malvinas war and what they

325
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:18,080
went through, the whole, the, where that point in time where they were on stage now.

326
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,720
And I still feel like they are like brothers to me as are, you know, my other, the other

327
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:30,520
two like, with a Gurkha and another former Old Marine movies and incredible guys.

328
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:35,320
I know when we do, cause every once in a while the play gets stood up and I, I get really

329
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,840
excited just to meet them all again and their families and everyone else.

330
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:45,880
So it's, yeah, it just shows you a strong play like that, which is purely about the

331
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,440
whole choreographically goes through the battle for the, you know, the Falklands and Malvinas

332
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,480
and it tells tales of stories from each of these individuals piecing together the actual

333
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:59,960
battle and how reconciliation was so important and how close they are and the bond on stage

334
00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:01,760
is really, really obvious.

335
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:07,840
And it's things that I think that's why it landed so well in Israel and I, especially

336
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,800
the way things are happening in the world at the minute.

337
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:15,840
I think it's the importance of that play and reconciliation will be enduring.

338
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,840
And even though it's a play set 40 years ago, cause these are individual real life people

339
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,240
that have now worked together.

340
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:26,680
Their story is the important thing that just, you know, when you get past it, just realize

341
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:31,920
that it is human beings that they're on the opposite side.

342
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,000
I was just talking to a friend of mine who's he's American, but he's Palestinian is both

343
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,360
his parents are Palestinian.

344
00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:40,680
He's an amazing humanitarian before this all blew up.

345
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:46,440
He was in Syria and Greece and Turkey and, you know, helping rescue migrants and being

346
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,920
in immigration camps and all these things.

347
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,460
It's a beautiful human being.

348
00:24:50,460 --> 00:24:55,360
And he was just telling me, you know, regardless of whatever's, you know, anyone's perception

349
00:24:55,360 --> 00:25:00,000
of right, wrong, whatever it is, the horrors that are going on there at the moment for

350
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,920
people that live there that are being shelled is absolutely horrific.

351
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,480
And I've talked about this a lot.

352
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:13,800
What kills me is that every single time, if you look back from slavery to the genocide,

353
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:20,800
I mean, you name it, it's a tyrannical few people that then oppress, you know, the masses.

354
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:26,020
And then ultimately soldiers of one country have to take up arms forced or voluntary.

355
00:25:26,020 --> 00:25:30,920
And then they go kill or try and kill people at the same age of them that happened to be

356
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,640
born on a different island or piece of land.

357
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:42,400
And I wonder like, how can we finally learn so many lessons from history and nip it in

358
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:43,800
the bud before it happens?

359
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:49,040
This division, this nastiness, this lust for greed and power that a few people have that

360
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:54,680
sends so many of our children off to war.

361
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:55,680
It's a bizarre thing.

362
00:25:55,680 --> 00:26:00,360
And obviously I'm a product of everything that you said there in a lot of ways, not

363
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:07,720
only growing up, but deployed in operations.

364
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,480
If we look at the strategic thing, can it end?

365
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:11,480
I think it will end.

366
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:16,080
I think technology is pushing the thing.

367
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,880
What we've got to understand is what's happening today has always been the way it happened,

368
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,320
has been the way, you know what I mean?

369
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:28,080
It's just now we've got cameras that have documented it second by second, what's happening.

370
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,560
And to be honest, I think that's incredible.

371
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:37,520
What I don't want ever to see that people think that it's because it's so much of it,

372
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:43,720
it's so prevalent and so many images seen that it blunts the trauma of what those people

373
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,280
have gone through and what their lives are about.

374
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:51,320
So I don't, it's important that we keep the currency.

375
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:58,520
And also the devil in the media as well is the blame culture.

376
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,160
You know what I mean?

377
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,320
That to me, and it's very, very, very hard.

378
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:10,160
I mean, I was forever a supporter of the BBC and everything else, but I'm struggling even

379
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,040
now with that.

380
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,480
Just tell the story what has happened.

381
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:22,960
And there's so much, you know, that's because of the power of those media outlets now, both

382
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,120
right wing and left wing or whatever, they've all got their own viewpoints.

383
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:29,280
They've all got their storyline.

384
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:35,400
And that's a struggle because that creates more tribes of support and waves of for free

385
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:36,400
the side.

386
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,040
The trauma is still going to happen.

387
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:47,200
And it is, but it's a weird, weird thing that I remember saying like, you know, the talking

388
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,480
has to happen, but it'll take two generations.

389
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:55,160
Things that are going on now in Ukraine and in Gaza, that's going to be more, it's going

390
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,280
to be generations, but that could be even longer than that because, you know what I

391
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:00,280
mean?

392
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,560
That has been felt by every single family, you know what I mean?

393
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:08,360
In Gaza and a hell of a lot of families in Israel as well.

394
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:13,200
And in Ukraine and Russia and I'm like, that's going to stay for people's lifetimes.

395
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:14,760
I might not even be generations.

396
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,280
We're talking about like full generations.

397
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:23,800
So we're talking like, you know, maybe 50 years at least, if there was no engagement

398
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,080
for this to even filter through where people can like look at each other and talk and go,

399
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,360
you're not to blame.

400
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:34,480
At the minute, the sort of main players on both sides have still got, you know, still

401
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,200
got, they're still tainted from their past of what they've been involved in and that'll

402
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,200
be enduring.

403
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:48,360
So I don't think until we get a generation that hasn't been, should we say, hasn't taken

404
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:54,160
lives from an opposing side that they're still challenging with, I think that's the only

405
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,840
time that people will morally feel right.

406
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,040
They can talk about it.

407
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,080
I agree with you.

408
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,080
I say, but I can't, I can't, I can't say that war is going to end.

409
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:11,480
I don't think technology is getting such a heightened stage that the term of a fair fight

410
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,360
is never going to be the case now.

411
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:14,360
Never going to be a case.

412
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:19,480
And it doesn't, it doesn't, you know, you always have to be thoroughly and well-drilled

413
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,080
and professionally trained as a soldier.

414
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,640
And the more professionally trained you are, you know what I mean?

415
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,040
The more effective you're going to be.

416
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,360
And also your survivability is probably going to be better.

417
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:34,760
But I'd say now because the techs moved on in such binds that you could be the physically

418
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,920
most robust, hardest, you know what I mean?

419
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,280
Sharp, intelligent soldier in the world, but it's not.

420
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:46,720
It ends in a nanosecond and it's done through technology, which is unseen.

421
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,440
So I think technology may bring it to the stage where it's, you know what I mean?

422
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,160
It's machine against machine type scenario.

423
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,280
There's still going to be human beings that are lost lives and still going to be innocent

424
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,120
lives are going to be completely underneath it and in the middle of it.

425
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:09,680
But currently, and this is another one, which may be maybe there are threats to the freedoms

426
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:15,200
that I fought for and the freedoms that I want my family to endure and love for the

427
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,280
rest of their lives and the rest of my grandchildren's lives.

428
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:23,160
And after that, there are threats out there where we still need to have the ability where

429
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:29,880
human beings are able to move forward and deliver lethality in whatever respect.

430
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:35,560
As surgically as possible is completely right, but we still have to operate and there's still

431
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:36,560
that requirement.

432
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:46,080
And until I think we feel that our freedoms are not threatened, that in some way we have

433
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:47,080
to maintain that capability.

434
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,360
It doesn't have to be massive, but it still needs that and it still has to be survivability.

435
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:56,160
And also if you leapfrog up into the biggest state players and the volatility at the minute

436
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:05,800
in the big countries like Russia, like China, North Korea, all these capabilities, it's

437
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:11,240
the volatility and it's also those freedoms that their state do not have whatsoever.

438
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:16,720
So you can't, it's just, that's it.

439
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:22,800
Not aggression and I wouldn't say aggression and not revenge either, which some people

440
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:29,520
might say, but I think we need to have that ability and we still need to influence and

441
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:36,320
make sure that those cultures and freedoms that we have are maintained.

442
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:37,320
Yeah I agree.

443
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:38,320
And thank you for your perspective.

444
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:44,200
I know we got very philosophical early in the conversation, but it's an important conversation.

445
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,760
I just went home to take care of my dad a couple of weeks ago in England and I was there

446
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,960
for a remembrance Sunday, remembrance weekend.

447
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,120
And one of my friends had just retired from London Transport Police in the armed division

448
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:06,040
and the way the BBC was portraying that was there was going to be this protest of a march

449
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:11,200
of Palestinians and the way they were projecting it was basically the police aren't ready and

450
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,520
all these Palestinian people are going to kick off and it's going to be an absolute

451
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:15,840
nightmare.

452
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,120
And neither happened.

453
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:18,120
The police were ready.

454
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,680
According to my friend, there were a few isolated arrests that people were taking care of immediately

455
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,200
and everyone else, it was a peaceful protest.

456
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,880
And I understand now having spoken to one of the most revered journalists that we've

457
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:35,680
had in the US and he was talking about how we devolved our news by the companies that

458
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,300
once owned them saying, all right, now you need to make money.

459
00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:43,520
So it went from news to trying to keep you hooked on a news story so they can sell the

460
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,040
drug whatever drug company commercial.

461
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:47,040
The advertising.

462
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:48,040
Yeah, exactly.

463
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:49,040
So it's not about news.

464
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:50,040
It's about advertising.

465
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:51,040
It's about making money.

466
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,800
But the BBC is television licensed.

467
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,800
So that's what really disappoints me because they don't really don't have an excuse to

468
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,000
have deviated from what I always remember.

469
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,400
And I used to talk about all the time is middle of the road.

470
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:04,400
Here's what happened.

471
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:05,400
No opinions.

472
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,480
And I'm just this is what happened today.

473
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:16,200
And I think for the last I think last five years, it's been that there's like a it's

474
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,680
like a social push for you.

475
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,200
I mean, it's it's not.

476
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:22,200
It's yeah.

477
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:29,040
To me, they've definitely deviated and they've got a new I mean, it's not not conspiracy

478
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,040
or anything.

479
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:31,040
It's just prevalent.

480
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:36,560
When I was in O.P. sitting up in my in Norway or on operations, we would tune in and listen

481
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:41,920
to BBC World Service because that would give us exactly truthfully what was happening in

482
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:42,920
the world.

483
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:49,800
And now I listen to stuff which is no prevalence or relevance to to you know, I mean, what

484
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:50,840
I need to know.

485
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,360
But it's yeah.

486
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,800
So I but again, I'm not here to judge the BBC.

487
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,040
I'm just saying I need some further journalism.

488
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,040
That used to be what I listened to.

489
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,040
I can't lie.

490
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:06,560
So that's the way I have to move on and listen to other things or which I don't like because

491
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:07,560
it's time.

492
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,080
And at times, it's time is money and things like those.

493
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,080
You have to listen to multiple feeds to get a section average.

494
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:15,080
You go, right.

495
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:16,080
That must be really what's happening.

496
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:17,080
Exactly.

497
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:21,300
Well, I think just one more thing and then we'll move on.

498
00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:24,640
Someone said to me recently, it was such a profound statement.

499
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:32,360
They said people are looking at America because we are the advert for democracy.

500
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,160
And he goes, what do you think they're thinking at the moment?

501
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:40,920
So for me, the safety and security of this country, the happiness of the American people

502
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,800
is centered around real democracy.

503
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,200
People feel like their vote counts, people feeling mostly that we're being pulled together,

504
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,120
that we're a giant community.

505
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,360
But we're seeing the opposite from both sides here.

506
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,080
Both media stations, it's a complete division.

507
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,640
So we've got to understand that if we don't fight to get the BBC back to where it should

508
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,020
be, if you don't fight to get our news networks to actually tell news again and stop putting

509
00:35:04,020 --> 00:35:09,740
fear and conspiracy theory, whatever it is, out into the public, we are getting divided

510
00:35:09,740 --> 00:35:10,740
and conquered.

511
00:35:10,740 --> 00:35:14,400
Therefore, the Russians, the North Koreas, the Chinas of the world are wringing their

512
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,060
hands going, oh, sweet.

513
00:35:16,060 --> 00:35:18,880
They used to be quite strong, but now they're getting fat.

514
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,120
Now they're addicted to opiates.

515
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,680
Now all these things are happening and that's a national security issue too.

516
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:29,640
So this isn't a political conversation.

517
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,120
When I, for example, had a lot of conversations with some very intelligent people like you

518
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:38,560
that have been around the world and have seen the highs and the lows and tell it from the

519
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:44,400
soldier's eyes or whatever field they're in, you start to see again these commonalities,

520
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,300
this middle ground.

521
00:35:46,300 --> 00:35:48,080
This is not good.

522
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:49,360
We are getting more vulnerable.

523
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,880
We are becoming less of a community, more set against ourselves.

524
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,120
So this whole conversation, I think, is about the wellbeing of the British people, the Australian

525
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:03,880
people, the American, Canadian, everyone else who's being kind of set upon by their media

526
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,200
outlets and some of their politicians.

527
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:07,200
Yeah.

528
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:13,480
I mean, I definitely think that, which is quite a surreal circle, like full circle in

529
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:21,280
one way, is sometimes it really, it does burn in me quite a bit.

530
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:28,000
It's just, if you look at those images of people in the trenches, in the second world

531
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:33,760
war, in Korea and again, still in wars fighting other human beings, but fighting for what

532
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:41,480
we believe was that freedom and possibly maybe those freedoms and our, you know, our wish

533
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:49,320
to make freedoms as free and as free as they could possibly be, free be, means that then

534
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:58,880
you create an environment of obesity, of, you know what I mean, of no duty, no requirement,

535
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,800
no blame, no this, you know that, because it's, you know, that freedom and maybe, but

536
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:08,160
again, it's one of those things, once a horse is bolted, you'll never get it back.

537
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:09,360
So it's just that evolution.

538
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:14,880
We've got to get back under some sort of evolutionary path where human beings in our cultures feel

539
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:20,480
that they are responsible for every day they've got on this planet and for the people in the

540
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:25,000
community they live in to give it its best and give it a shot.

541
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:33,020
But that I think is just going to be so, so hard to do with our, sorry to say our addiction

542
00:37:33,020 --> 00:37:38,000
to social media, to our addiction to, and it's another thing as well.

543
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,920
I spoke about it before, our addiction to social media, but also that reverence held

544
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:49,440
for people on TV, not TV, just like on that spectrum, whether it be a computer screen

545
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:54,160
or a phone screen or anything, there's people that, that they, they hero worship these super

546
00:37:54,160 --> 00:38:00,360
thin one bricks thin, no depth sort of like, you know, in fact, I'd say that even though

547
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:05,640
the human beings are like AI, they're like sort of created things, whereas, and people

548
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,080
revere them, even though they don't know them personally, they've never, they've never sat

549
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:10,080
in a trench with them.

550
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,000
They've never done a hard day's work.

551
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:13,160
They've never been on a pump with them.

552
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:14,160
They've never done this and that.

553
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:15,680
All I'm saying is that's it.

554
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:20,720
So that's they revere them purely because, because it's, it's a fashion.

555
00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:21,720
It's a trend.

556
00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:22,720
You know what I mean?

557
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:24,240
And that I find it hard.

558
00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:27,760
Whereas when we grew up and we never had to do media, we never had that, you know, we

559
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,440
maybe had a few Hollywood heroes like on a horse or something like that or on a motorbike,

560
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,200
but it was always, you looked up to people because you looked at them, you work with

561
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,840
them and you said, and I used to, I mean, I did because you take a little bit off everybody

562
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,840
you meet in your life and they're going, he's good.

563
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:41,840
I like him.

564
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:42,840
That's it.

565
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:43,840
He's got, oh, she's, she's wonderful.

566
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:44,840
She's that.

567
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:45,840
I know.

568
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:46,840
And you know what I mean?

569
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:47,840
She's sharp.

570
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:48,840
She's good.

571
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:49,840
You know what I mean?

572
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:50,840
You pick things from people, all these different people, and you pull them into your, into

573
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,120
your armory and that, that helps evolve you as a human being.

574
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,600
You're still always yourself, but you need these little good things, especially when people

575
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,720
are good tech or the way they manage people.

576
00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:01,960
I just, you know, you see it all the time.

577
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,520
You follow good people, but not bad people.

578
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:05,960
But you knew them because you work with them.

579
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:06,960
You knew the work ethos.

580
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:08,360
You socialize with them.

581
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,240
She knew where you've seen the dark side of them, whether the good side or the funny side,

582
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:16,560
she knew everything was not, you've just got this, if it's on that, if it's on that square,

583
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,840
that screen and there's a big following, that's good.

584
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,920
And that, that blows my mind.

585
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:22,920
Absolutely.

586
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:23,920
He has us doing a podcast.

587
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:31,640
I know, I know, but it is, it's, it's, it's using the beast for educating positivity.

588
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,800
I think it's very important and not negativity, but, and again, that's another thing I don't

589
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:36,800
want to go, right.

590
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:37,800
Everything's ooh.

591
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,720
And we're, the world's all gone down.

592
00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:40,720
Hell, it's, it's not like that.

593
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:48,360
I'm just saying that for me, am I sort of like my sort of like life sort of journey

594
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:54,160
getting to this point here, it's just leaving a lot of worries because it's changed so much

595
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,920
in such a short piece of time, space of time.

596
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:58,920
It's that worry.

597
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:04,640
I'm like, well, if it's changed so much in the last like five, 10 years, what's it going

598
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:06,960
to be like in 20 years time?

599
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:12,040
And then we've got, you know, everything else compounded in topical warming, demand for

600
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:13,520
power and everything else.

601
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:21,640
It's just, there's a, there's a lot of issues that need resolved and there's no resolution

602
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:28,840
happening at the minute or not, you know, not, not, I'd say not in a measured way anyway.

603
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,280
I think it's, it's, it's important for us to just realize what we've already got as

604
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:34,280
well.

605
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:35,280
I don't see a lot of gratitude.

606
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,600
And again, this, like you said, this isn't a doom and gloom conversation.

607
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,080
There's a lot of people that do get it.

608
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,360
A lot of people that are out there doing incredible things in the world.

609
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,880
But if we just go, ah, that's all right.

610
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,880
You know, then we are going to be so far behind it.

611
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,880
So I think these voices are important to just be, you know, grateful for all the things

612
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,360
we have rather than bitching about what we don't have.

613
00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:00,000
But then also understanding that there's a trend, there's a linear line, you know, between

614
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,600
our health, our mental health, you know, the security of the nation, education, whatever

615
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:04,600
it is.

616
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,040
And that is going to have an impact if we don't intersect it.

617
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,200
You know, it's like a missile heading towards your home country.

618
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,000
If someone doesn't knock it off course, eventually it's going to blow up.

619
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,000
So yeah.

620
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,760
I think the main word you said there was education.

621
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:17,760
It's just that education.

622
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:22,160
And I think in those formative years for young people, did they get it?

623
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:28,880
And like I say, so many of them do, but there's still a, I mean, this is the worrying thing.

624
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,720
What we used to call a working class people, whatever else that they're, they're still

625
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:34,040
in that low education bubble.

626
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,240
And then again, they're not going to have those opportunities.

627
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:40,160
So they're, especially in the sort of family cycle and that where they keep bounding around

628
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,520
and everything else that they haven't broke out of that.

629
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:49,080
So they, they, you know, they see, they see, you know, let's say we say what we've lost

630
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,280
from previous communities, they see what they have now as the norm, you know what I mean?

631
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:54,280
And that's it.

632
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:55,280
And it's an endurance sort of thing.

633
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:58,320
They, they don't get, they don't feel there's a need to break the cycle.

634
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,920
And that's an, I think that's just something that we should, education is the important

635
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,240
thing to make sure that they try and break it, you know, and education can be done so

636
00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:11,680
many different ways, but you know, I mean, it's given them the appetite to want to break

637
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,800
the mold or want to move forward with, with humanity.

638
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:16,800
Absolutely.

639
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:21,800
Well, going back to your journey, speaking of education, you ended up in the Royal Marines.

640
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,560
Is that what you were dreaming of when you were in school or was there something else

641
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:25,560
before that?

642
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,240
Oh no, that's, that's all I ever wanted to be.

643
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:33,320
I tried to join the Royal Marines when I was seven years old, but because I seen an advert

644
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,800
in the newspapers, which is a bit bizarre, saying that way from, from Belfast.

645
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:43,420
They sent me the pack back, but I was a bit young to join at the time.

646
00:42:43,420 --> 00:42:46,720
So that's what I wanted to do.

647
00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:54,200
And when I got my exam results, I picked them up, went straight down discreetly to the careers

648
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:55,760
office and joined up.

649
00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:00,220
And I was a junior at the time, so I had to get a witness to sign it.

650
00:43:00,220 --> 00:43:04,160
So which is, and my parents to sign it.

651
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:08,040
And I hadn't spoken to my parents about what, I did speak to my dad when I was young, but

652
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,240
he said, you'll grow out of it.

653
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:17,320
But I didn't and, and that, although finally did sign the forms initially, he was like,

654
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,760
I don't want son of mine joining the commandos.

655
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:27,080
And you know, and you think about it at the time, it was like, you know, mid eighties,

656
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:34,560
the 85 actually when I joined up and they, or you went and signed on the dotted line.

657
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:39,680
And that's a mega brief show for them because they did sign the forms for me, but that was

658
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:44,160
extremely brave shot coming from, from our background.

659
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,280
And I've got a lovely family, a lovely wider family as well.

660
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:53,120
But it's, but these are people with completely different, like, you know, political and,

661
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:59,680
and like natural sort of like national sort of like identity, you know what I mean?

662
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,800
And I, and I won't knock them for it because that, that was, you know what I mean?

663
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:09,320
You know, there was reason for that at the time, but I was allowed to make my decision

664
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:10,680
and make my point and do what I did.

665
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:15,080
And I, I mean, if you, I mean, you know, the score to become a role in Marines commandos,

666
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,040
not, oh yeah, I'm just going to join up and it'll happen.

667
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:22,080
It's, it's, it's a, it's a tasty little number to do.

668
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,840
And you know, that, that's all I wanted to do.

669
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,520
So I had to do it, but I had to be very discreet.

670
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:27,520
Nope.

671
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,840
Never told anyone and did it.

672
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:34,800
I think it was just only one friend or two who later joined later in later year, year

673
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,160
after joined the Royal Air Force.

674
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:42,720
But generally, you know, I didn't tell anyone and I went off on the adventure.

675
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:44,200
It was the Royal Marines.

676
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:49,320
And that was, and I think the only thing I would say for young people that do want to

677
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,560
aspire, you know, to do something.

678
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:57,520
And I have to make, cause every, everything that's ever happened on the planet done by

679
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,440
human beings, they're human beings.

680
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:05,680
So the fact is that everything on this planet you can do, you know what I mean?

681
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,200
You can do it, you can do it to the best of your heart's content.

682
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:13,680
You can do it, but you've got to just focus on it and, and get amongst it and just do

683
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:14,680
it.

684
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:21,160
And I was very privileged and lied because, you know, my forms were signed and I can do

685
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:22,160
it.

686
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,440
So I went off and became a Royal Marines commando.

687
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:32,120
And as soon as I joined her, the intensity and the arduous nature of training, just,

688
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:33,120
I was at home.

689
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:34,120
I was in pure heaven.

690
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:42,240
It was just, I was at, yeah, like 30, 37 and a half years later, I'm going, yeah, yeah,

691
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:44,360
it was just, yeah, it was magical.

692
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:51,640
You know, and I was so lucky to be such a unbelievable gang of people.

693
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:56,000
And I, I still am really, I will be, I mean, once it's, you know, once a Royal Marine,

694
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,000
always a Royal Marine.

695
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,320
And in the States they say once a Marine, always a Marine.

696
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:04,800
But for me, you know, that's it, I'm from, with a gang of people that I sort of joined

697
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:11,120
the Corps with and we will be friends, well, while we're still on this, on this earth.

698
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:16,720
But what we've, especially, you know, you know, some of the friends, what we've been

699
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:27,160
through is all those highs and lows and in battle losing friends, as a traumatic injuries,

700
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:31,840
you know, overcomers, survivors, we've lost friends through suicide.

701
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:37,240
So we've all been through a journey and our families have suffered in the background,

702
00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:41,200
you know, not in the background, but on the home front while this has all been happening.

703
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,840
So they're part of that, our bigger family as well.

704
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:53,360
So yeah, it's been a, I've been a very, very lucky man to have had the career that I did

705
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,160
and also to have survived it.

706
00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:00,200
So I feel again, greatly privileged.

707
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,560
I feel the same way about the fire service, you know, but I don't call myself a retired

708
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,000
firefighter, even though I'm not paid to do it anymore.

709
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,680
I mean, I literally did CPR on a plane about two weeks ago and then responded to a crash

710
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:11,960
about three days ago.

711
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:16,320
So, you know, as a civilian, but I got to kind of witness what you're talking about

712
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:17,320
as well.

713
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:24,320
First hand, I went to see Ben Wadham and Sam Sheriff in Plymouth and Reorg at Ben's gym,

714
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,480
ended up rolling, when I say rolling, getting murdered by Sam for a bit.

715
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,280
And then Junior was rolling with him as well.

716
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:31,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

717
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,560
I was, I had coffee with Junior the other day, actually.

718
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,480
Yeah, he's brilliant, bro.

719
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:37,480
Brilliant.

720
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,560
So, but I got to see that and it was beautiful, that little area.

721
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:44,680
And there were people, you know, obviously quite young Marines coming through and probably,

722
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:48,840
you know, men that you serve with and they were all cycling through the cafeteria and

723
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:49,840
it was phenomenal.

724
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:57,400
I think that's, that was so inspiring to watch because they created a place, no matter whether

725
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:01,280
you're actually wearing the uniform or if you transitioned out, to still feel like you're

726
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:02,280
part of the Corps.

727
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:08,680
Now, the President, you just, it's a massive attraction and it's such a wonderful attraction

728
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,680
for veterans to keep him, stay involved, stay in the community.

729
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:17,000
Well, you stay in the community anyway, but that gives that a physicality, I think, that

730
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:18,720
bootnecks and the heat, you know what I mean?

731
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:25,000
And firefighters as well, you know, and it's just that, you know, it's a good, because

732
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,120
phys is so important to you, I think, you know, when you leave service, you've got to

733
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:33,440
keep that mindset and that sense of purpose, it's physicality and doing that, you know,

734
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:38,640
intimately or whatever and mobility and endurance will keep you, it'll give you longevity as

735
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:44,240
well because again, if you stagnate, then, you know, it's the wrong thing to do.

736
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:46,800
It's bad for you.

737
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:53,520
I've heard you talk a couple of times now and each time you seem to be the same way

738
00:48:53,520 --> 00:49:00,400
that I am, acknowledging all the trauma of your service, seeing men and women, you know,

739
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:05,760
in your case, men, in my case, men and women around you that are really, really struggled,

740
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:10,200
some of whom, you know, are not here anymore, some of whom, thank God, were saved from a

741
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:14,120
suicide attempt and, you know, are here to tell the tale.

742
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:19,480
And when I look back and analyze why was I not there sitting, you know, with a bottle

743
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:25,160
of scotch and a pistol, the only thing I can think of is even though I had trauma when

744
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:31,040
I was younger, certain things, just by pure luck, I grew up on a farm, I grew up, my dad's

745
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,960
event resurgence was around animals, you know, he was healing.

746
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,440
There were people of all colors and creeds coming through our farmhouse all the time.

747
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:43,200
So there were so many positive coping mechanisms that we identify now, you know, from animals

748
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,960
to time in nature, et cetera, et cetera.

749
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:53,000
So I can hypothesize, okay, well, I was just so fortunate to have equal and opposing coping,

750
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:57,320
you know, mechanisms inbuilt to my childhood that it allowed me to process that trauma

751
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:58,720
and it became a strength.

752
00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:03,920
A lot of people that have come on the show who were really, really, really struggling,

753
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:09,080
a lot of their childhood was traumatic and they didn't necessarily process it.

754
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,860
They just, you know, shoved it down.

755
00:50:11,860 --> 00:50:17,280
When you look at your journey, I mean, you know, 30 plus years, you know, in Royal Marines

756
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:24,660
and Reserves and you grew up in Belfast during the Troubles, what do you identify were the

757
00:50:24,660 --> 00:50:29,320
elements that allowed you to foster resilience when some of your fellow Marines, you know,

758
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,840
didn't have that strong foundation when they entered the profession?

759
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:39,080
I mean, I wouldn't say they didn't have a strong foundation.

760
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:44,880
I think there's a certain level of conditioning that happens when you become a Royal Marines

761
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,840
commando.

762
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:53,760
But leading up to that, I think family life and community life and the Troubles and the

763
00:50:53,760 --> 00:51:02,960
systematic sort of like security routine or regime that happened in Northern Ireland,

764
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:08,640
it puts you in this sort of, and again, being a Catholic old boys primary school, Christian

765
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:09,640
Brothers primary school.

766
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:17,080
And then I went to St Malachy's College, which was a priest seminary college as well, but

767
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:18,080
an old boys grammar school.

768
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:24,400
And I went to that and no matter what we say, it's very, even though it's not because, you

769
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:30,600
know, there are schools, but quite militaristic and you're conditioned from an early age,

770
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:31,600
I think.

771
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:32,600
And I was an altar boy as well.

772
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:33,600
So I was an altar boy.

773
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:38,440
So you're part of the Catholic Church and that is militaristic in a way as well.

774
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,540
So, you know, maybe the conditioning happened.

775
00:51:41,540 --> 00:51:45,200
Maybe there's not as much conditioning for the younger members that were coming, but

776
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:48,520
for people of my age group.

777
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:54,280
And we were, I think we were a lot more, we had a lot more say common sense, I'd say,

778
00:51:54,280 --> 00:52:00,160
when we joined up and less academic awareness.

779
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:01,400
You know what I mean?

780
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:05,880
Our intellect, I think was, you know, it's in our genes or it was maybe from our conditioning

781
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:10,840
coming from big cities or from islands off Scotland or whatever.

782
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:15,360
You've got that unique, in your formative years, you have to be, you know, have to be

783
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,800
a scrapper, a bit of a, have a survivability factor in that.

784
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:25,680
Whereas nowadays you get a lot of younger men that are joining the corps, which even

785
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,820
in the early stages are not as physically robust because they haven't spent as much

786
00:52:28,820 --> 00:52:29,820
time outside now.

787
00:52:29,820 --> 00:52:32,120
And I'm not saying that's across the board.

788
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:36,040
And yeah, of course you get people that knew have grown up in families where they were,

789
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:41,200
lived their lives on mountains or, you know, running hills or swimming in sea or surfing.

790
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:45,100
But we've got a lot of people from inner cities that grew up maybe playing PlayStation games

791
00:52:45,100 --> 00:52:48,960
and their idea of being a Royal Marines commander is watching, you know, Call of Duty or playing

792
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:56,600
Call of Duty, which is really, really, no, no, it's not, it's not.

793
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:01,280
And I'm not a Call of Duty player, but you know, I do know what a game is.

794
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,320
It's, you know, we get a lot of people doing that.

795
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:08,760
So you have to sort of like start their physical conditioning through their journey and become

796
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,400
a Royal Marines commando in a very different way.

797
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,800
Whereas ours was you join and it was shocker capture.

798
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,200
And it was you joining the Royal Marines.

799
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,800
It wasn't, it wasn't the Royal Marines trying to get you to join.

800
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,520
It was you scratching to be in the Royal Marines.

801
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:28,240
So you'd give a hundred percent all out, but at any stage you could have like been thrown,

802
00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:30,960
you know, I mean, yeah, so I no longer required.

803
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:35,360
There's across the whole day armed forces now it's very much a, you know, they're actually,

804
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,600
you know, titan for business continue.

805
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:38,600
They're selling their souls.

806
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,000
Go right, come and join us, come and join us, come and join us.

807
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:42,000
You know what I mean?

808
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:48,800
And they're, I think they, as you say, the rigid sort of training regimes that we had

809
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:55,000
when we joined are a lot more, should we say user friendly, still effective, still a tester,

810
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:59,200
still all, you know, everything else, but it's, it's definitely a different sort of

811
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:00,200
regime.

812
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:03,000
Possibly and society as well.

813
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,760
Society is a very different society.

814
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:10,640
And that does open, open your eyes when you go on operations, you know, being able to

815
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:14,000
adapt to things that are, you know, you've possibly came across when you were younger

816
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,160
and you've overcome it through your family and everything else.

817
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:24,960
But a lot of things that, that came apparent with me with my friends and people that colleagues

818
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:31,200
I knew that were struggling, a lot of it did stem from childhood years, whereas what happened

819
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,600
on operations, you know, when you have a traumatic scenario, when you was a firefighter, it must

820
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:41,360
have been incredibly, incredibly sad and traumatic scenes, but they were like triggers, but it

821
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,640
sort of dragged up other issues deeper in the childhood.

822
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,920
And that was, you know, that, that's been a very, very common factor and people have

823
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:52,360
spoken, spoken with when they, when they said about it.

824
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,360
So I can't, there's no blame for it.

825
00:54:55,360 --> 00:55:01,920
I just think the, the odd, the less arduous nature of life, which again, we've, we've

826
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:13,320
made makes certain it is, it makes certain people less, no, but I can't, I can't even

827
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,280
some of my friends have come in, so I can't, I can't say, I wouldn't say that they're

828
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:21,680
less strong or anything else, but for me it's always been when things happen.

829
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:25,920
And I think it's when it comes into my acting, the reason I understand it, whilst I was going

830
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:30,160
through maybe a group going up in Belfast and then joining the Royal Marines.

831
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:38,120
And I've said this before in a chat before, I think we build up a, I subconsciously have

832
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:40,680
built up a protection to my emotion.

833
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:41,680
You know what I mean?

834
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:43,680
My emotional sort of, you know, regime.

835
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:44,920
So you sort of build it up.

836
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:49,160
It's like, you know, you have to, you have to resist because you can, you know, you've,

837
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:53,600
you've had, you know, I mean, things have been tricky and then you move into sort of

838
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:57,000
like things are extremely hard and then operations are going to be lost.

839
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:01,400
So you build this up and that, that resistance you build up helps you massively.

840
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,840
I think especially longevity wise, the time I was in the Royal Marines and the things

841
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:09,520
I'd done helped me get through it, you know, relatively stable.

842
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:16,040
But my friends that I've struggled with it, they seemed to, when I came across new scenarios,

843
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:21,040
traumatic scenarios and you lost people, there was a certain surrealism of it.

844
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:27,680
It didn't, you know, it's still now even seems quite surreal, even though you know, your

845
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:30,840
mates are dead, you know that they're buried and gone and everything else and that, but

846
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:35,800
you still got that, you know what I mean?

847
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:37,400
It's just weird to me.

848
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:43,360
And it's, it's something I always, you know, I always still visit my friends now and just

849
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:48,000
like have a chat with them when, especially when I'm doing, you know, active stuff because

850
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,520
there I feel quite emotional thinking about them.

851
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:51,800
But I like, you know, I need that.

852
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:52,800
I need those emotions.

853
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:57,200
So I go and speak to them and just say, I need you today, lads.

854
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:01,320
Just it sort of comes because their memories come and I don't want ever to dampen that

855
00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:03,960
or make it, oh, I'll just call them my mates today.

856
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:05,640
I can't because it's too precious.

857
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,920
They're too wonderful and their memories are too wonderful.

858
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:13,200
So it's one of those things where the resistance built up and we do what we do and we see

859
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,780
traumatic things and carry on with it.

860
00:57:15,780 --> 00:57:20,440
But I still think back and I do have a few tearful moments.

861
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,880
I'm not saying I don't and a few of my mates will say this as well.

862
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:26,920
And we've had a few times where we were out climbing in Switzerland, we had a hard week

863
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:31,960
and we came down and me and one of my mates, Steph, pulled out and created a beer and we

864
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:37,800
put a tune on and the tune went on and it was just the opening chords of the tune.

865
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,960
Just it just made me go emotional.

866
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:46,160
I was just putting, you know, and I looked into his eyes and we were sitting there and

867
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,960
it was two of us and he just knew straight away what it was.

868
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:52,000
He was like, don't worry, mate.

869
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,000
Don't worry.

870
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:54,000
Crack a beer and that was it.

871
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,520
And that was, you know, that understanding and having a friend to go, you're all right,

872
00:57:58,520 --> 00:57:59,520
mate.

873
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:00,520
And that was it.

874
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:02,840
And I'd spoke to a couple of other friends who'd be down in the Falklands and they said

875
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:04,480
they had moments like this and I didn't.

876
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:08,760
I was thinking, you know, I don't think I'll have that, but it was just something.

877
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:12,020
It was just a tune or something and it just made it come back to me.

878
00:58:12,020 --> 00:58:16,760
So why, the reason I said I have got over it and overcome it, but I'll never forget

879
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:23,040
mates, but realizing that I have overcome it and I will have emotional moments means

880
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,120
that I'm not stuck on the timeline.

881
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:29,160
Whereas my friends that I feel my friends have taken their lives, my friends that really

882
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:34,480
struggle with things is that they can't get away from that point in time or that moment.

883
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:39,520
So it's like, you know, instead of, you know, they're stuck on that date and that timeline,

884
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:45,320
life just moves on and they can't, they try to get away from it, but it just, they're

885
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:46,320
struggling with it.

886
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:51,520
And it's just anything I can maybe assist them with, especially in the arts nowadays,

887
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:56,200
is just to get them to move away from that and just get that timeline moving again and

888
00:58:56,200 --> 00:59:01,520
look forward and not back, but not forgetting, never forgetting those wonderful, wonderful

889
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,320
people that we had to work with.

890
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:09,600
When I said the, you know, the, that's the foundation, it's not a weakness.

891
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,160
It's not something anyone's aware of.

892
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:13,160
It's that unaddressed stuff.

893
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:17,400
And a lot of, a lot of people on the show, you know, they were small when whatever happened

894
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:21,040
in the household, whether it was sexual abuse or, you know, growing up around domestic violence,

895
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:22,080
you know, whatever it was.

896
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:26,960
So they go in with all the best intentions, unaware of some of the fragility inside.

897
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:28,480
And it's not that they're not warriors.

898
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,800
It's just this kind of element.

899
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:34,940
So then, you know, you add all these other compounding factors, you know, of service

900
00:59:34,940 --> 00:59:37,360
and, you know, maybe even organizational betrayal.

901
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:42,400
I mean, you know, whatever factors in some of them, they just get to that critical mass

902
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:43,960
and everything starts collapsing.

903
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:48,720
And what's so sad, and I've learned this from so many people now, you know, there used to

904
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:53,680
be our generation, this kind of conversation that suicide was cowardly and selfish.

905
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:57,600
And you realize when you hear stories from people that were right there, I've had two

906
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:02,620
that survived their suicide attempt, you know, and the moment they began it, they immediately

907
01:00:02,620 --> 01:00:04,200
had regret.

908
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:05,920
But it's because it snapped them out.

909
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:13,280
But that brain by that point is so miswired that they think that is the selfless way of,

910
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,760
you know, removing themselves because they're a burden to their fellow Marines.

911
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:21,080
They're a burden to their wife, to their children, which makes no sense to a healthy brain, makes

912
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,720
perfect sense to a broken brain.

913
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:29,640
So this is what's so sad is no one, you know, no one who gets to that point of crisis is,

914
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,160
air quotes, a pussy quite the opposite.

915
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:37,240
You know, you wouldn't belittle someone who's FEMA was sticking out the side of their leg,

916
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:39,520
you know, fucking hell, you just broke your leg.

917
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:45,280
But when it comes to that mental injury, that injury to the point of completely changing

918
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:48,400
their reality, it's, you know, we've got to show compassion.

919
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:53,560
And the reason why I asked you that was another part of the conversation is some people are

920
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:54,920
doing okay, they're coping.

921
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:57,360
So it's up to us to then say, all right, what was it?

922
01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:58,360
Why?

923
01:00:58,360 --> 01:00:59,360
Why?

924
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:00,360
I mean, we're no different.

925
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:01,360
We are, as you said, human beings.

926
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:04,280
Why am I able to cope this amount?

927
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:07,480
And my friend took his own life or took her own life.

928
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:11,280
And so trying to impart some of that too, because if we're not struggling, that means

929
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:13,880
we're the ones that need to raise our friends up.

930
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:20,400
Yeah, I mean, I see even like, you know, as you were saying, I understand those words,

931
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,200
which I fully agree with, I fully agree with.

932
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:30,320
Because I remember some of my friends there and they were, you know, when you were, you

933
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,720
know, mega friendly with them, they all part company or they left the core or whatever

934
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:34,720
else.

935
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:40,080
But some of the guys, a couple of the guys, I met not long before they took their own

936
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,560
life and I didn't ping it.

937
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:47,920
I didn't, I didn't, I didn't grab it.

938
01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,240
And I'm thinking, I look back and think, was it something?

939
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:56,840
And that's why it's so, it's harder, especially when you remember those phone times, you

940
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:03,800
were smiling or sharing a beer or sharing a, you know, a foxhole or, you know, a shell

941
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:09,720
scrape together and you have that little giggling sort of smiling and chuckle when you're in,

942
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:13,400
you know, that dark humor in the face of adversity.

943
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:15,840
And you look in their eyes and you saw, you know, that's it.

944
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:22,040
And even as you just get that moment back and then, but you could say, you know, completely

945
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:27,400
straight eye to eye with no pretense or nothing, just go, right, you know, are you okay?

946
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:32,360
And that would always, you know, there'd be straight, it would be compassionate and just

947
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,520
to have that opportunity to say, you all right mate?

948
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:38,520
If you're not, you know, thinking that and it's just, that's the big thing that sort

949
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:44,800
of gets you when they do, you, and you've seen them recently, you just go on, well,

950
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:52,520
you know, it's just what, yeah, like why didn't they already, you know, have I never made

951
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:55,840
him feel comfortable enough for him to say, so Judy, he knows I'm the sort of person that

952
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:57,800
would listen and yeah.

953
01:02:57,800 --> 01:02:58,800
Yeah.

954
01:02:58,800 --> 01:02:59,800
I mean, it's hard.

955
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:07,120
And I've even had people explain it that mentally you have fight, flight, flow or freeze, flow

956
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:09,920
is when I was missing and freeze.

957
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,360
That's almost like the kind of deer in the headlights.

958
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:14,120
And then there's almost an acceptance then.

959
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:17,080
If you think about it, the deer has basically made peace with the fact it's going to get

960
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:18,760
run over by a car.

961
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:23,920
And so that is why sometimes I hear people say they, they seem happier than I'd seen

962
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:27,160
them in months or years, a few days before.

963
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:31,440
So to try and kind of alleviate some of that guilt, sometimes they've already made peace

964
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:32,440
with it.

965
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:34,480
Now, maybe if you looked at them and said, you know, are you okay?

966
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:35,480
No, no, no.

967
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:36,480
Are you really okay?

968
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:39,040
And I think the second question is really important.

969
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:42,600
Maybe it would snap out of them, but maybe in that, in their mind, they'd already just

970
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:46,240
made that decision and they were just kind of, you know, tying up loose ends, deliberately

971
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:49,800
coming to see you because they were, they knew what was going to come.

972
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:50,800
Yeah.

973
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:58,280
I mean, I'll take that as a, you know, a little in my pocket for that one.

974
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:03,200
Cause that's something that I think, and I, yeah, I'll definitely take that one as well

975
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:05,240
just to use your bit.

976
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:10,400
And when we do, it's worth, I think just, and it discreetly rather than doing the old

977
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,320
like, I must say blah, blah, blah, it's the old, right?

978
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:14,320
Yeah.

979
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:16,760
Look at me, Hucka Jen, just tell me the truth.

980
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:17,760
You know what I mean?

981
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:18,760
How's it going?

982
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:24,080
And if you are, if you're feeling that bad, you need to speak to me, you need to offload

983
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:25,080
with me and that's it.

984
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:27,800
So yeah, I've definitely, I'm taking that one.

985
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:34,160
Cause like I said, it's, it's still extremely prevalent in, you know, in, in my peer group

986
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:37,960
and people that have been deported in operations.

987
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:38,960
Absolutely.

988
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:43,480
And here in America, we lose twice as many firefighters and police officers to suicide

989
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:47,520
than we do what we call line of duty deaths, you know, all the things that kill us in uniform.

990
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:51,320
So I want to get back to Northern Island then.

991
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:54,280
So now you're wearing a Royal Marine uniform.

992
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:57,160
You go back to your home city.

993
01:04:57,160 --> 01:05:02,800
What was that kind of transition that experience like for you, you know, one minute you're

994
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:04,560
seeing soldiers in your city.

995
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:09,240
Now you're one of those soldiers or Marines in this case.

996
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:10,240
Yeah.

997
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:15,080
I mean, it wasn't, I wasn't exactly in my city at the time, but, and I guess I, I, I

998
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:21,360
want to say what, what I don't know what I'm for, but obviously jobs, you know, I've done

999
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:25,320
either it was, I didn't know.

1000
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:30,520
I mean, I was, I was in a group of, of Royal Marines commanders who were doing our job.

1001
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:37,640
I seen it as a completely a peace support job protecting Irish people from Irish people

1002
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:38,640
basically.

1003
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:43,680
And, and you know, and my, my comrades, and that's why I deployed because I think it would

1004
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:46,440
be hard and I never took my family deployed either.

1005
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:52,320
So I'd done four tours in Ireland and I never took my family because, you know, it wasn't,

1006
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:53,800
it wasn't their burden.

1007
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:54,800
You know what I mean?

1008
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:58,800
But for me it was, I had to go because I was protecting my, my friends.

1009
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,840
But also I was educating my friends.

1010
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:07,280
I was telling them what Ireland was about, why it was where we were, why we had to do

1011
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:08,320
this.

1012
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:14,480
And also, you know, if professionally as well, just to make sure that they're focused on

1013
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:15,480
what we were doing.

1014
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:17,280
But I think it was important.

1015
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:23,440
They, they understood the background of why different targets are different people, you

1016
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:27,360
know, we were working against why, why they felt the way they were doing.

1017
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:31,920
Because again, they were human beings, not only human beings, they were, you know, they

1018
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:36,440
were, they were Irish human beings, whether they be, you know, loyalist terrorists or

1019
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:44,040
loyalist, you know, should we say volunteers or Republican terrorists or Republican freedom

1020
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:45,040
fighters.

1021
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:46,040
I mean, that's, that's another thing.

1022
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:49,400
Cause remember the old, you said about 9-11, like when 9-11 happened, they said, all right,

1023
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:51,560
it's terrorism and straight away it's terrorism.

1024
01:06:51,560 --> 01:07:00,000
It's the old, it's very, very hard to, it is like one man's terrorists and another man's

1025
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:03,560
freedom fighter, French resistance, terrorists, freedom fighters.

1026
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:05,800
You know what I mean?

1027
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:07,720
It's just so, so many different things.

1028
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:16,320
I mean, yeah, for me it was education and peace support and being professional.

1029
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:24,840
And I think those professional soldiers and Marines that worked out in, in Northern Ireland,

1030
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:30,840
they learned valuable, valuable lessons in their trade in that environment because the

1031
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:39,640
people they were up against were probably the most, I'd say, cunning and covert operators

1032
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,640
on the planet, I think, you know what I mean?

1033
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:51,480
And that's whatever side they were following, but they were, their ability to, you know,

1034
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:58,920
basically to deliver operations, you know, both in UK and in Ireland was, you know, I

1035
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:00,480
mean, it was pretty magical.

1036
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:07,040
I mean, it's not, there was no battlefield win, but it was the skills learned there,

1037
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:14,000
but it was in really good stead for future operations in, I'd say Bosnia, Kosovo, and

1038
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,000
definitely I'd say in Iraq as well.

1039
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:20,400
And it was, by the time we came to Iraq, a lot of the, it was only the senior people

1040
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:22,680
that had maybe deployed in Northern Ireland.

1041
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:31,680
So they still had that understanding of patrolling in multiples in built up areas, looking at,

1042
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:35,240
you know, all the MOs or the TTPs that the enemy would be using.

1043
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:43,880
A lot of them, it was far more intense, I would say, but the TTPs were similar.

1044
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:49,080
And I think if you were refined and professional in Northern Ireland, it would make it, you'd

1045
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:55,000
be such a more competent operator, I think, in any of the other environments.

1046
01:08:55,000 --> 01:09:00,420
When you talk about educating some of the other Marines on the backstory behind the

1047
01:09:00,420 --> 01:09:06,040
conflict in your home country, it reminds me of a police officer I had, Nick Colt, and

1048
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:07,440
he was a little boy.

1049
01:09:07,440 --> 01:09:13,620
The local Orlando and Orange County police were surrounding his house because someone

1050
01:09:13,620 --> 01:09:16,240
had basically done like a home invasion.

1051
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:19,680
And then there was miscommunication, mistakes were made.

1052
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:23,360
It went from, I think, Orange County to Orlando.

1053
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:24,360
Yeah.

1054
01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:28,880
So when they'd been there for X amount of hours, they passed onto the city.

1055
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:34,960
The lady, the hostage taker ordered food, they sent a pizza in, the mother was told

1056
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:39,760
to go out to the garage and get it, and the sniper shot her, killed her, Nick's mother.

1057
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:45,200
And Nick became a police officer because he wanted to make sure that that never happened

1058
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:46,880
to someone else's mother.

1059
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:51,040
And it kind of reminds me the same thing, that you put yourself in uniform so you could,

1060
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:55,600
as you said, protect the good people of Ireland and try and mitigate some of the violence.

1061
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:57,920
Yeah, I mean, and that is it.

1062
01:09:57,920 --> 01:09:58,920
That is completely it.

1063
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:02,440
I never, you know, that is my island, isn't it?

1064
01:10:02,440 --> 01:10:03,440
It's my island.

1065
01:10:03,440 --> 01:10:09,680
And I didn't go there to prosecute any politics, purity of lives and help people.

1066
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:11,680
And hopefully I did that.

1067
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:14,000
Well, you mentioned Kosovo then.

1068
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:18,680
So when I'm thinking about post-Falklands, I was literally, I got it, 82, wasn't it?

1069
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:19,680
So I was six.

1070
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:20,680
Is that right?

1071
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:21,680
No, eight.

1072
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:24,580
I was eight when the Falklands happened.

1073
01:10:24,580 --> 01:10:29,800
So then, you know, we have the kind of Eastern European conflicts kick off next.

1074
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:32,920
You weren't, you know, you joined after the Falklands.

1075
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:36,640
So Northern Ireland, as you said, was your kind of training ground as well.

1076
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:42,760
Talk to me about getting to Kosovo and then the kind of backstory, because I mean, a lot

1077
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:47,640
of people listening probably aren't aware of the, again, the sectarian elements to that

1078
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:48,640
conflict.

1079
01:10:48,640 --> 01:11:01,040
Well, the Brigade 3 commander brigade were due to deploy in 2000, 2001 to Kosovo, to

1080
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:06,600
Pristina and basically as a holding ground, you know, the brigade headquarters would be

1081
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:10,800
working in, just outside Pristina.

1082
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:19,520
And at this stage, obviously the native force had gone in here before and taken over Kosovo

1083
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:29,520
from Serbian influences due to the conflict or they, you know, shall we say the suppression

1084
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:38,280
of the mostly Albanian, you know, so Albanian, Kosovan Albanians rather than the Serbian

1085
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:43,960
Albanians, Serbian, Kosovan Serbians as well, Serbian Kosovans as well.

1086
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:50,520
And you know, it was very much sectarian divide and there was different areas.

1087
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:57,640
It was very, very similar to maybe old school Northern Ireland as it was and the way the

1088
01:11:57,640 --> 01:12:05,920
areas were split up and also the Kosovans, the Kosovan sort of forces then had stepped

1089
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:12,360
up were now these sort of like local paramilitary sort of like forces supporting the native

1090
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:16,520
troops to, you know, secure and police the area.

1091
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:18,480
But we got involved.

1092
01:12:18,480 --> 01:12:24,840
I was a team commander in the Brigade Patrol Troop, which was like an evolution of the

1093
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:28,320
mountain-archival warfare cadre, which was in the Falklands.

1094
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:32,080
And it was now called the Brigade Patrol Troop, which, and it was the early stages of being

1095
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:36,560
called the Brigade Reconnaissance Force and the three-commander brigade, Brigade Reconnaissance

1096
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:42,400
Force was this sort of like the model or design that the other brigades would follow when

1097
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:46,540
we went on to further operations after 9-11.

1098
01:12:46,540 --> 01:12:52,420
So we had a group of mostly Royal Marines, but we had combat, our commando engineers

1099
01:12:52,420 --> 01:12:55,320
and commando forward air controllers with this as well.

1100
01:12:55,320 --> 01:13:04,360
But generally we were working in what we would call a close observation type role, reactive

1101
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:05,360
role.

1102
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:12,200
So we were doing surveillance of targets, both Serbian, Kosovan, Albanian and Kosovan

1103
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:17,200
and also a lot of criminal activity as well.

1104
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:23,680
Because that was, you know, it was one of those, you know, that sort of void of proper

1105
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:29,080
police authority had left that loop where people could sort of influence a hell of a

1106
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:30,080
lot of things.

1107
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:33,800
And there's a lot of criminal elements linked into the different sort of like permanently

1108
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:36,000
organizations that were happening over there.

1109
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:39,360
And but we've done some seriously good work over there.

1110
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:42,960
And I think as a small organization, we were really punching high above our weight.

1111
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:47,860
We were like, it was just, we were really pushing forward with digital imagery and technology

1112
01:13:47,860 --> 01:13:52,280
and we were getting some real good quality results, improvising things and doing, we

1113
01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:55,840
also done a few reactive ops, ambush ops.

1114
01:13:55,840 --> 01:14:00,640
We got involved in quite some serious ambush ops, getting triggered with some sources we

1115
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:01,760
had.

1116
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:05,200
And a few of them, again, the ambushes themselves weren't triggered.

1117
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:11,120
So it wasn't like we were putting lines down, but we captured quite a few people doing illicit

1118
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:16,120
trade and different bits and pieces rather than saying what we'd done.

1119
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:19,640
But we captured quite a lot of people doing that.

1120
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:27,080
It was a very, very positive tour and we, it was a very successful one for the Brigade

1121
01:14:27,080 --> 01:14:28,520
Patrol Troop.

1122
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:34,040
I think we proved our, you know, the last time they'd deployed in operations was in,

1123
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:40,800
after the first Iraq war in operation during freedom.

1124
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:47,120
It was not during freedom, it was in, when they went into Kurdistan, northern Iraq after

1125
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:48,400
the first Gulf War.

1126
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:53,840
That was the last time, sort of the first and last time the Brigade Patrol Troop had

1127
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:54,840
deployed.

1128
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:55,840
So this was our first operational deployment.

1129
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:59,160
So, but then after Kosovo, we got back.

1130
01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:02,720
I mean, the first job we'd done in Kosovo was quite a good one actually.

1131
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:14,560
We went in to secure a hotel, which was, it was the hotel belonging to one of the Serbian,

1132
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:20,120
high Serbian politicians, cousins, and we had to secure it, secure him and then we were

1133
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:23,480
closing down a factory and we'd been there three days and we hadn't even got our ammunition

1134
01:15:23,480 --> 01:15:26,280
yet so we had to sort of throw everything together.

1135
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:29,720
Disappeared in the back of a big lorry over the top of a mountain and ended up on our

1136
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:33,320
first task within like, you know, days.

1137
01:15:33,320 --> 01:15:36,520
It didn't come, it wasn't fruitful.

1138
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:43,280
The factory did get closed down, but it did, there was quite a lot of, shall we say, a

1139
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:45,480
lot of, because it was a Serbian enclave as well.

1140
01:15:45,480 --> 01:15:49,600
So there was a lot of Serbian people were deeply upset about what was going on, because

1141
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:51,680
of pollution and everything else that had to be shut down.

1142
01:15:51,680 --> 01:15:56,800
So we were securing the manager, securing the sort of management infrastructure and

1143
01:15:56,800 --> 01:16:01,920
then we got wrapped up in trying to just make sure that the Serbs never overrun the village

1144
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:07,960
and yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty hurry few hours we had and I think the lads proved

1145
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:08,960
it worth it.

1146
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:14,560
It didn't, it didn't, it could have went dramatically wrong, but I think the professionalism and

1147
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:19,200
the coolness of our team saved the day for us.

1148
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:22,960
But that is definitely a story for another time that is.

1149
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:25,680
Well, you touched on 9-11.

1150
01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:29,680
So you know, you've had these kind of urban conflicts up to this point, you know, like

1151
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:33,320
you mentioned there was the first Gulf War, but that, you know, seemingly a lot of it

1152
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:37,800
was an aerial attack in the first part.

1153
01:16:37,800 --> 01:16:41,040
Talk to me about your personal experience of 9-11.

1154
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:44,560
A lot of people that come on here that serve, whether they're in first responder uniforms

1155
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:49,000
or military, that was a very pivotal moment for them, but they were Americans.

1156
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:51,120
It was attack on America.

1157
01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:56,080
What was your experience already wearing a Royal Marine uniform and being, you know,

1158
01:16:56,080 --> 01:16:59,320
Northern Irish slash British Marine?

1159
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:03,320
Well, as I was already, I was pretty seasoned by this stage.

1160
01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:06,160
So I'd been in what, 15 years.

1161
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:09,400
Yeah, so I, you know, I mean, I'd done quite a lot.

1162
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:14,080
I was a Sergeant team commander, still in Brigade Patrol troop.

1163
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:19,800
When the actual planes went into the twin towers and the Pentagon, we were live firing

1164
01:17:19,800 --> 01:17:20,800
in wheels.

1165
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:25,260
So we were basically preparing to go to the Oman desert.

1166
01:17:25,260 --> 01:17:33,120
So we were basically doing fire maneuver and weapon drills with our systems in the Senne

1167
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:38,240
Bridge and the Brecon Peacons.

1168
01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:40,400
We had, remember those little mini TVs.

1169
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:43,240
You had an aerial, you pulled the aerial out and you had a little mini TV.

1170
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:50,120
We had one of those and the 18 commanders and one of my make have the color sergeant.

1171
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:52,520
We just watched it happen live.

1172
01:17:52,520 --> 01:18:01,440
And it was heart wrenching because you knew at that very moment, just the trauma, it was

1173
01:18:01,440 --> 01:18:07,280
like, it was like Hollywood level images we were seeing, but it was real, real life, real

1174
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:08,280
people.

1175
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:09,280
It was honking.

1176
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:13,600
And we knew at that point in time, our world's a change.

1177
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:20,480
Unfortunately, the people that were there with us within two years, 10 of them would

1178
01:18:20,480 --> 01:18:21,480
be dead.

1179
01:18:21,480 --> 01:18:23,480
You know what I mean?

1180
01:18:23,480 --> 01:18:29,800
And that's quite, but we knew and we accepted that things were going to change pretty, pretty

1181
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:36,360
drastic and it's quite, it's quite bunkish.

1182
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:44,120
But straight after that, we were, there's all sorts of like, the jungle drums are beaten,

1183
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:45,120
decisions being made.

1184
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:46,760
So we were racking up.

1185
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:51,800
They said we're going to head, we were going to massive British exercise, a joint exercise

1186
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:56,760
with the Omani forces, a safe siree, I think it was called.

1187
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:59,200
Yeah, safe siree.

1188
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:04,560
And it was in Oman and that was about 2001, about October.

1189
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:13,480
So this is about a month, you know, after like, you know, 9 11 and we went out October

1190
01:19:13,480 --> 01:19:16,200
and November time, but I had to stay.

1191
01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:19,400
So we put a big six week exercise in the desert.

1192
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:22,320
We're working in a small mobility.

1193
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:27,560
We still hadn't got proper sort of reconnaissance women vehicles or machine gun mounted vehicles.

1194
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:31,760
So we'd like improvise it with, you know, just stripped down a landovers and we were

1195
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:36,680
doing a mobile reconnaissance in the desert, which was, it was great.

1196
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:37,680
We needed that.

1197
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:42,920
We did need that, especially for, you know, it was like, it was, it was like all the,

1198
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:47,400
the training sort of bill landed exactly where it should have been really, you know, for,

1199
01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:52,600
for what happened, which is so sad, but so we were, you know, just working out all our

1200
01:19:52,600 --> 01:19:58,280
SOPs or reviving our SOPs and working them out, sorting our teams out and doing that

1201
01:19:58,280 --> 01:19:59,960
during safe Syria.

1202
01:19:59,960 --> 01:20:03,560
At the end of safe Syria, when everyone was returning back, I stayed behind with a couple

1203
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:11,480
of our members to take to run a training package for the Omani special forces down in Salala

1204
01:20:11,480 --> 01:20:16,200
with to do combat climbing amphibious assault combat climbing.

1205
01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:21,520
So we were doing like teaching them how to lead climb and set up a fixed lines at night

1206
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:24,760
on a cliff faces down in Salala way.

1207
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:29,120
And at this point we met, we met all the, so the Omani special forces guy.

1208
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:33,160
And obviously you got to be aware at the time it was quite as cool.

1209
01:20:33,160 --> 01:20:34,160
Weird.

1210
01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:39,040
Cause we, we, we'd attached with us with a, a Marsok gunnery sergeant, incredible guy,

1211
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:43,400
one of the, when he still won my best meets and he was attached to us, but he was dressed

1212
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:45,600
as a Brit and his wife's a Brit as well.

1213
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:51,320
So he sort of gave it because of the American thing, it was a bit, it was weird because

1214
01:20:51,320 --> 01:20:53,920
we were Brits, apparently it was okay.

1215
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:59,000
Or, you know, we, we were okay, but he was American and he goes, just pretend I'm, pretend

1216
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:00,600
I've got, you know, he's Hispanic looking.

1217
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:04,400
So I said, pretend, pretend I've got Turkish extraction.

1218
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:06,480
All right.

1219
01:21:06,480 --> 01:21:11,640
So we were obviously in the first demo when he was my demo man or demonstration and he

1220
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:13,360
was my sort of demo man doing all that.

1221
01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:17,280
We were doing combat, you know, runner and placement on a, on a rocks.

1222
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:21,560
And he, he was just about, he was like, you're right.

1223
01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:24,280
I said, well, yeah, obviously watch my demo, my crack on this.

1224
01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:29,400
And then the liaison officer who obviously spoke fluent, spoke fluent English, he's

1225
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:33,600
like, ah, I see our American friend is doing the demonstration.

1226
01:21:33,600 --> 01:21:37,200
And I was like, you just see them all like that, but they all just look straight away

1227
01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:41,520
at chunks and just went, and I was like going, Ooh.

1228
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:44,840
And it was a Luke, you know, it was, they are, it was like, he was the devil.

1229
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:45,840
It was mega weird.

1230
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:50,280
I know they're not, you know, they were, they were on side, they were allies, but you could

1231
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:54,200
just see that Luke of venom, find out that he was American.

1232
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:59,240
And I was like, Oh, but he didn't, he didn't let that, he didn't, honestly, he did not

1233
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:02,000
let that get to him whatsoever.

1234
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:03,120
And he just cracked on.

1235
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:09,800
And then because he's such an incredibly strong character, by the end of the week, he had

1236
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:14,320
a, basically all the Omani, you know, special forces lads were his best mate.

1237
01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:17,560
They were like, you know, they, they wanted to bring him home to meet the families and

1238
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:18,560
everything.

1239
01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:23,520
So he had, you know, he just transformed their opinion off the U S of him as a person.

1240
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:25,840
And that's purely done is strength of character.

1241
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:27,560
He just didn't let it rile him.

1242
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:31,840
You know, you could see initially though, that could create friction straight away,

1243
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:32,840
but it didn't.

1244
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:35,360
He had it and he controlled it.

1245
01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:39,900
And he's a, yeah, he's, he's a very talented operator, should we say.

1246
01:22:39,900 --> 01:22:43,120
So we had that, and that went on for about another three weeks.

1247
01:22:43,120 --> 01:22:49,920
So I've been in the desert, living in the desert for about two months now.

1248
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:53,120
Mind you, down at Salalah, I did get a few like air conditions with the pubs, which was

1249
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:56,400
good, you know, a couple of beers, which was nice.

1250
01:22:56,400 --> 01:23:01,560
But then we, we were about to get, get back to the UK because I'd come out with the exercise.

1251
01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:03,140
I never had a visa.

1252
01:23:03,140 --> 01:23:07,160
So it was like, have you seen that film Midnight Express where he's just gone through the airport

1253
01:23:07,160 --> 01:23:08,160
and he gets stopped?

1254
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:11,600
And so he goes, oh, I'll tell so and so.

1255
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:15,160
So we're going through the airport and we've just literally the day before we find out,

1256
01:23:15,160 --> 01:23:18,260
right, we're going to Afghanistan nearly soon, as soon as we get back.

1257
01:23:18,260 --> 01:23:20,040
So I haven't, I mean, this has happened since 9-11.

1258
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:22,880
We're like going, I haven't seen my family or anything.

1259
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:26,240
And I'm just going, oh, Jesus.

1260
01:23:26,240 --> 01:23:28,900
But this guy goes, no, no, you can't leave.

1261
01:23:28,900 --> 01:23:31,960
And they put us up in a five star hotel and everything, but we were just looking at each

1262
01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:35,120
other as me and, and I was my mate, we just looked at each other.

1263
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:37,080
We were going, we were just like completely broken.

1264
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:39,280
We just thought, this is it.

1265
01:23:39,280 --> 01:23:42,560
We might even get to see our families before we just straight on the tailgate back out

1266
01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:44,720
to Afghanistan.

1267
01:23:44,720 --> 01:23:48,880
And so after 9-11, we did, we got back, we had Christmas at home and then we went out

1268
01:23:48,880 --> 01:23:57,280
to Afghanistan and after Christmas in 2002, just, just in the 2002.

1269
01:23:57,280 --> 01:24:00,040
And that was, you know, the start of the whirlwind.

1270
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:05,260
So I went over those years, I went five years on operations nearly every year.

1271
01:24:05,260 --> 01:24:15,400
So, and when we went to Afghanistan the first time on Objekana and yeah, it was a completely

1272
01:24:15,400 --> 01:24:22,320
different operation than what Hellman would be later on, but it was still, you know, it

1273
01:24:22,320 --> 01:24:23,320
was on the cusp.

1274
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:24,320
It was still, we were still there.

1275
01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:26,920
It was still, we were still hunting the Taliban and everything else and that.

1276
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:33,160
And we, we, it was a hard, hard, in the mountains as well, mostly up in Western Afghanistan,

1277
01:24:33,160 --> 01:24:34,160
up in the mountains as well.

1278
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:39,240
So it was quite a, quite a chunky hard, you know, few months we were there.

1279
01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:45,240
Then we got back from there and we were on an exercise I had to generate, had a couple

1280
01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:47,240
of weeks off, got ourselves a sword.

1281
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:51,960
And then we had to generate an exercise up in Scotland on the Isle of Skye doing that.

1282
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:56,440
And whilst up in that, this is coming towards Christmas in 2002 again.

1283
01:24:56,440 --> 01:25:01,840
So we'd come back, got ourselves a sword and then we got a visit from the command officer,

1284
01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:03,240
give it the old, right lads.

1285
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:06,080
It looks like we're invading Iraq next year potentially.

1286
01:25:06,080 --> 01:25:08,960
And you're going to be, be part of that.

1287
01:25:08,960 --> 01:25:14,840
So we literally packed a kit then after Christmas the next year and we were right in Iraq ready

1288
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:15,840
for that.

1289
01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:21,680
So this is like, and then, so this is like from Kosovo to Afghanistan, then straight

1290
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:22,680
to Iraq.

1291
01:25:22,680 --> 01:25:28,400
And then we, and that's when basically that's when we had, had the big, our big hit, which

1292
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:33,840
was when we, we were flying on the night of the invasion, we were flying forward and our

1293
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:39,880
job was to fly forward off all the, we were the three commander brigade were under the

1294
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:45,660
command of a US Marine Corps division, two star division commander.

1295
01:25:45,660 --> 01:25:52,960
And we'd fly forward, 40 commander was flying with the Navy SEALs and secure the sort of

1296
01:25:52,960 --> 01:25:59,320
like the oil head done at the bottom of the L4 and clear L4 town.

1297
01:25:59,320 --> 01:26:03,760
And whilst they were doing that, we would fly behind the lines and set up observation

1298
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:08,000
posts, OPs and trigger any reinforcements coming down from Iraqis and strike them with

1299
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:17,880
our forward air controllers and FACs and our FU's, our forward air controllers, our forward

1300
01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:20,960
observation officers that we had with us.

1301
01:26:20,960 --> 01:26:30,600
And as we took off, and this is, this is, this is the, I mean, it's been out there,

1302
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:34,920
when we done rehearsals, I was on a helicopter and I could see, I sent you one of the pictures

1303
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:41,080
not there, but I sent a picture of the helicopter and when we done rehearsals, I was in the

1304
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:47,100
left hand of our, it's flies in an arrowhead formation of our division of helicopters.

1305
01:26:47,100 --> 01:26:52,400
And there was one, two, three on the left and two on the right, I think of our division.

1306
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:59,360
I was in the third of the flying forward, the back left helicopter and our alpha, I

1307
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:00,520
was the Bravo headquarters.

1308
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:06,120
So if anything happened to our alpha headquarters, I would swap, basically get all our coordinate,

1309
01:27:06,120 --> 01:27:09,800
all our teams back into one and get them back in and off the ground.

1310
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:10,800
So I was in the helicopter.

1311
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:15,640
So we done rehearsals, we had orders, we were observation command, operation command, up

1312
01:27:15,640 --> 01:27:17,880
com to four two command at that time.

1313
01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:22,840
And we'd be given orders by the commanding officer of four two commando until like, yeah,

1314
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:24,560
as part of that, you'll go forward.

1315
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:28,280
Then they'll leapfrog in behind us and you know, we'd have support, you know, mutual

1316
01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:31,660
support as such with the, his commando unit.

1317
01:27:31,660 --> 01:27:39,920
And but we've got the rehearsals, gotten a helicopter, obviously went through rehearsals,

1318
01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:42,960
landed on quite heavily at nighttime, dust off.

1319
01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:48,760
We were flying in US Marine Corps CH-46 helicopters, the CNIC, I think they're called.

1320
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:52,040
And we landed on, got back to the tent.

1321
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:56,000
I was in the tent with all my colleagues who were in the headquarters.

1322
01:27:56,000 --> 01:28:00,280
We had discussion, you know, it was all, you know, let's just see how things go.

1323
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:04,540
You know, it was a bit of a, bit of a hairy, scary ride in a helicopter, but we'll be fine.

1324
01:28:04,540 --> 01:28:07,940
When we get on the ground, Saddam can stand by as such.

1325
01:28:07,940 --> 01:28:12,800
And then the following day we got orders, yeah, Stefan's green light's on tonight.

1326
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:15,040
We were happening, so fully commanded, we landed on.

1327
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:18,120
So they landed on, battle, then we boarded our helicopters.

1328
01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:25,240
As we were going back onto the back of my helicopter, the tailgate, my OC in St. Major,

1329
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:29,720
and a few of my mates went, and then I tip, you're on that, you're on that helicopter

1330
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:30,720
over there.

1331
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:33,760
I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on a second.

1332
01:28:33,760 --> 01:28:35,200
You know, we've got orders.

1333
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:36,200
This is it.

1334
01:28:36,200 --> 01:28:38,380
Your OP's completely different area of the mine.

1335
01:28:38,380 --> 01:28:40,560
You know, we were small teams working, you know, separately.

1336
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:46,040
So a specific OP or landing sites had to be bang on to get the full cover so we could,

1337
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:49,920
you know, protect from the enemy as such.

1338
01:28:49,920 --> 01:28:53,880
So I went over to this, the other guy said, are you happy with our LS, where we met the

1339
01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:54,880
land?

1340
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:57,680
This guy goes, no, no, no, I have no problems, you know, with you guys.

1341
01:28:57,680 --> 01:29:02,880
And he was a, he's a cracking guy, and he'd actually spent time flying with Royal Navy

1342
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:05,740
Helicopter Squadrons 845, 846.

1343
01:29:05,740 --> 01:29:11,440
So I shook hands and went back over to the guy and said, right, right lads, so I'm happy

1344
01:29:11,440 --> 01:29:12,440
that we'll see.

1345
01:29:12,440 --> 01:29:16,760
And after this phase of the operation, we'd all coordinate together and then we'd be clearing

1346
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:21,240
through the L4 and we'd be the forward recce element of the Commando Brigade, of the Commando

1347
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:22,620
units.

1348
01:29:22,620 --> 01:29:26,800
And so big hug, big hugs, and that there's a sea on the ground.

1349
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:28,000
That's it.

1350
01:29:28,000 --> 01:29:34,120
So I'm, there's the helicopter here flying forward that way, and I'm on this helicopter

1351
01:29:34,120 --> 01:29:35,120
here.

1352
01:29:35,120 --> 01:29:40,440
I'm on the tailgate with the door gone off the 46 looking straight at the helicopter,

1353
01:29:40,440 --> 01:29:42,640
which is just half right of me, you know, out the back.

1354
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:45,800
And they're quite tight in the scene, so you're strapped in.

1355
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:50,480
I was looking at it, we took off from Q8, we're flying in and you could see the track

1356
01:29:50,480 --> 01:29:54,360
we're following, you could see the oil fires, and I could check off my map exactly where

1357
01:29:54,360 --> 01:29:59,000
we were, went across Boobie and Ireland, we're coming in to land on, and from the front,

1358
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:04,120
I got two minutes running, two minutes running in, and nothing happened.

1359
01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:07,040
And then we kept banking and banking, so I'm going, oh, we're back on Boobie, and oh,

1360
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:09,960
we're back in the Q8, so we can back round again.

1361
01:30:09,960 --> 01:30:16,320
And then there was, I had this image in my head, which I didn't, the image never registered

1362
01:30:16,320 --> 01:30:20,720
until the day after, you know, when it happened.

1363
01:30:20,720 --> 01:30:24,880
And the last thing I seen was I was looking at the back and the helicopter with the lads

1364
01:30:24,880 --> 01:30:29,640
was on, it just, it went like that, and we were flying at a hundred feet, so, and I just,

1365
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:33,600
just like that, and just, that's the image I've got in my head.

1366
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:36,880
And then it was just a blast, and we were caught in the blast, so it blew up underneath

1367
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:41,760
us, we were caught in the blast, the helicopter, and then we carried on.

1368
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:45,720
But at this point in time, I can't, I couldn't remember that image until the next day, so

1369
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:48,840
all I seen was the old right, hey, I thought we'd been, because we said two minutes run

1370
01:30:48,840 --> 01:30:53,240
then, I'd lost the fact we're back in the Q8 again, I thought we'd been struck by something,

1371
01:30:53,240 --> 01:30:55,400
there was enemy fire or something.

1372
01:30:55,400 --> 01:31:01,720
And then we carried on, and there's this massive sort of light bulb of flames and fire and

1373
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:05,360
debris in the bottom, and I remember seeing my, it's a bit of my signaler, and I said,

1374
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:10,600
look, that's a helicopter, I'm sure it's a helicopter, but it's, this memory hadn't,

1375
01:31:10,600 --> 01:31:15,000
that memory hadn't come in yet, I mean, it's such an intense thing, and you're caught in

1376
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:18,240
the blast and the flames and all sorts.

1377
01:31:18,240 --> 01:31:22,880
So we, we were gone, and then we got mission aborted, so we, mission aborted, and all the

1378
01:31:22,880 --> 01:31:27,080
helicopters, we pealed around back, landed back where we took off from, and I got out

1379
01:31:27,080 --> 01:31:30,760
of the back of the helicopter, and the first person I seen out the back of the helicopter

1380
01:31:30,760 --> 01:31:37,200
was a guy in civilian clothes, and I was like, and he, he always, he just said, well, you

1381
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:39,000
know, have you got any press, have you got any press?

1382
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:43,360
I said, no, no, but I think Oliver North is on one of the helicopters, he goes, no, no,

1383
01:31:43,360 --> 01:31:48,880
I'm Oliver North, and he was the Fox reporter for, it was with us, so he's the guy, he was

1384
01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:53,080
the US Marine Corps Colonel who lied for the president, Oliver North type thing, and so

1385
01:31:53,080 --> 01:31:56,600
he said, no, I'm Oliver North, he said, what happened to Dash, so and so, and I still can't

1386
01:31:56,600 --> 01:32:01,200
remember the number, but I was like, I'm gonna just look straight away, and then it all,

1387
01:32:01,200 --> 01:32:06,000
that's it, the memory just hit me, that was that bang, bang, then they're all dead, so

1388
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:11,040
we're stuck, it's still pitch black, I say, look, thanks for that, leave the lads there,

1389
01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:15,800
so I left my team there, and I had to walk about, it was about a kilometer in the desert

1390
01:32:15,800 --> 01:32:22,360
up to a little infrared dot, which was the command post for 42 Commando, with the second

1391
01:32:22,360 --> 01:32:28,200
and commander coordinating the move forward, which we were part of, and it was just as

1392
01:32:28,200 --> 01:32:34,440
I was walking in, it's just starting to get daylight, and he knew me, he knew my family,

1393
01:32:34,440 --> 01:32:39,360
and he just looked at me, he goes, you were dead, I said, no, no, I'm not dead, but the

1394
01:32:39,360 --> 01:32:47,400
rest of the lads are dead, and basically they hadn't changed the white cards, and basically

1395
01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:54,720
my stick and my people, it's the same private Ryan thing, same private Ryan, they're in

1396
01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:59,360
a landing craft, landing craft, machine gun goes out there, but that would be on a green

1397
01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:03,040
card, because that's amphibious surface fleet, and that green card would have exactly who

1398
01:33:03,040 --> 01:33:07,120
the names are on it, if you're in aviation or on a helicopter, it'd be a white card,

1399
01:33:07,120 --> 01:33:10,000
and that would tell exactly the same, but the white cards hadn't been changed, so there's

1400
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:15,880
no order or track why our helicopters should have been changed, not at all, and that, even

1401
01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:22,320
to this day, just, you know what I mean, it's an awkward one, there's no, after getting

1402
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:26,720
a set of orders to invade a country, and then just on a, it just happens like that, and

1403
01:33:26,720 --> 01:33:31,320
I don't, I still do this day, maybe somebody out there does know, but I don't, and I've

1404
01:33:31,320 --> 01:33:33,560
never found out the truth behind it.

1405
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:38,200
So just so I'm clear, the crew that you did the rehearsal with was the crew that went

1406
01:33:38,200 --> 01:33:40,960
down in the crash, and you were switched to the other helicopter?

1407
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:44,120
Yeah, my whole team were, yeah, the teams were just swapped around.

1408
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:45,120
Oh, the team, the whole team?

1409
01:33:45,120 --> 01:33:46,120
Yeah, the whole team.

1410
01:33:46,120 --> 01:33:51,560
So you think that, and there's no, there's no, there's no, with no orders for it or anything,

1411
01:33:51,560 --> 01:33:59,120
it was just 10-9-9, you're on that helicopter, 10-9-9, that was it, which, you know, whatever

1412
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:04,640
you can say about it or anything, it's just, it's so sad, it lays low in my heart because

1413
01:34:04,640 --> 01:34:06,040
of it.

1414
01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:12,320
So when I was talking to the CIC of 42, like, and saying to him, like, you know, but he's

1415
01:34:12,320 --> 01:34:16,600
like, I can't, who was on it, and I explained who was on it on the helicopter and who died.

1416
01:34:16,600 --> 01:34:24,120
And he, but as I was chatting to him, the Padre, yeah, the Padre, we call him from

1417
01:34:24,120 --> 01:34:28,240
a 42 commando, come up to me, and he was obviously looking at me, I was like, oh, right, and

1418
01:34:28,240 --> 01:34:31,960
a few of my friends, they all, you know, as well, the old jungle drums beat, and all of

1419
01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:36,000
a sudden, everyone knows what's happened, but as at that stage, everyone thought I was

1420
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:40,800
dead, including the core guys of the officer who was back in the UK, who knew me and my

1421
01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:47,600
family, and he was like, he had received notification that I died, my team had, you know, had perished.

1422
01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:54,240
And then he said, he sat for like 30 seconds before basically telling the Grim Reaper,

1423
01:34:54,240 --> 01:34:58,920
you know, the nudicas to go around and inform people that their loved ones had died.

1424
01:34:58,920 --> 01:35:03,720
And in that 30 seconds, he got a phone call to stop, you know, I mean, it was, it was

1425
01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:07,840
a wrong one because, you know, we don't know what happened.

1426
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:12,600
But when I was chatting to the Padre, I looked over his shoulder and one of the brothers

1427
01:35:12,600 --> 01:35:16,320
of one of the lads died in a helicopter was sat in the desert, and he's waiting to get

1428
01:35:16,320 --> 01:35:18,520
on the next sticks to get out there.

1429
01:35:18,520 --> 01:35:23,360
And I was saying, you know, unfortunately, his brother's dead, so you have to, you know,

1430
01:35:23,360 --> 01:35:25,720
and he had to be informed, you know what I mean?

1431
01:35:25,720 --> 01:35:30,560
But obviously once it had to be done professionally and properly, but it was just so sad looking

1432
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:34,920
at him, you know, just because he, you know, he looks so much like his brother as well.

1433
01:35:34,920 --> 01:35:40,720
And it was like, you know, and then we just had to re-roll ourselves, get ourselves sorted

1434
01:35:40,720 --> 01:35:41,720
out.

1435
01:35:41,720 --> 01:35:47,760
We had no American aviation now, so we relied on the RAF to get us dropped off.

1436
01:35:47,760 --> 01:35:52,040
They did drop us off, but in the wrong place.

1437
01:35:52,040 --> 01:35:53,040
In the wrong place, you say?

1438
01:35:53,040 --> 01:35:54,040
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1439
01:35:54,040 --> 01:35:57,040
Of course, of course.

1440
01:35:57,040 --> 01:36:02,520
And we carried on, but it was that surreal thing that we thought did everything that

1441
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:06,680
happened in the last, you know, because we hadn't, we've had a step knife for like 15

1442
01:36:06,680 --> 01:36:10,880
hours, and now we're yomping through the middle of a battlefield because they've dropped the

1443
01:36:10,880 --> 01:36:13,560
sight of it and we have to be forward of it.

1444
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:17,680
So we're, we don't know who's shooting at us, whether it's friendly forces or Iraqis

1445
01:36:17,680 --> 01:36:18,680
and incoming fire.

1446
01:36:18,680 --> 01:36:22,880
And we just like, started off, we used to take a lot of cover and we'd get down, take

1447
01:36:22,880 --> 01:36:25,160
cover, get the gun out, everything else.

1448
01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:28,240
After that, we're just going to just keep moving, just keep, keep moving.

1449
01:36:28,240 --> 01:36:33,440
Cause you know, it's midday sun, got body armor, helmets, you know, heavy kit, lots

1450
01:36:33,440 --> 01:36:36,160
of ammunition and observation kit and comms kit.

1451
01:36:36,160 --> 01:36:39,480
And we just kept moving and we got ourselves forward.

1452
01:36:39,480 --> 01:36:45,280
And there's some incredible mini sort of like serials that happened there, which, which

1453
01:36:45,280 --> 01:36:50,040
I'll keep, I'll keep from my book, but you know, just, you know, the surreal stories

1454
01:36:50,040 --> 01:36:59,220
of battle where you're watching things and you're, yeah, completely, you know, yeah.

1455
01:36:59,220 --> 01:37:02,880
It's a wonder how so many people didn't die rather than, you know, the people that did

1456
01:37:02,880 --> 01:37:03,880
die as such.

1457
01:37:03,880 --> 01:37:12,280
So yeah, so we've done that, we carried on and we got, you know, we, we were fully involved

1458
01:37:12,280 --> 01:37:14,360
with the advance on the Basra.

1459
01:37:14,360 --> 01:37:15,640
We were carrying out raids.

1460
01:37:15,640 --> 01:37:24,040
We were crossing Iraqi sort of guns, spiking guns, locating enemy positions, coordinating

1461
01:37:24,040 --> 01:37:30,200
our aviation and you know, using all the tank systems.

1462
01:37:30,200 --> 01:37:34,480
And then we'd back up from tanks when we got towards Basra.

1463
01:37:34,480 --> 01:37:39,840
And then we were the part of the lead element, get into Basra and we sort of secured the

1464
01:37:39,840 --> 01:37:42,320
gates of Basra palace.

1465
01:37:42,320 --> 01:37:47,600
And then my troop had to step back and go and secure chemical alleys house.

1466
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:49,200
That was, that was another thing.

1467
01:37:49,200 --> 01:37:54,400
We had to secure the classic chemical alley or comical alley they used to call them.

1468
01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:55,400
We had to secure his house.

1469
01:37:55,400 --> 01:38:01,680
But as we were driving in the Basra, it was being sort of like, should we say it was just

1470
01:38:01,680 --> 01:38:04,760
being really being looted by about 3 million people.

1471
01:38:04,760 --> 01:38:11,320
It was like an Ansonest where people just run out with sinks, toilets, everything.

1472
01:38:11,320 --> 01:38:15,880
And when we finally secured the thing, I left the team with a 4-2 commander, we're going

1473
01:38:15,880 --> 01:38:17,240
to exploit the palace.

1474
01:38:17,240 --> 01:38:21,800
And then we moved around to chemical alley size and yeah, it was just fully cleansed.

1475
01:38:21,800 --> 01:38:26,960
We just had to secure it until some inspection teams come in, but it was, it was cleansed

1476
01:38:26,960 --> 01:38:27,960
completely.

1477
01:38:27,960 --> 01:38:32,280
You know, we're talking like metal wires taken out of the wall.

1478
01:38:32,280 --> 01:38:36,560
There was a, there was a stairway that was ripped out, which was made of concrete.

1479
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:44,440
They'd done a good job and it must have been in about an hour or something before we arrived.

1480
01:38:44,440 --> 01:38:46,480
So yeah, but good on them.

1481
01:38:46,480 --> 01:38:50,200
It was, you know, I mean, taking back what really it was.

1482
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:51,200
And that happened.

1483
01:38:51,200 --> 01:38:58,000
And then, but yeah, there's, there's, we were very busy people on that operation.

1484
01:38:58,000 --> 01:39:01,640
I think we, we, we done our lines, we lost obviously in the air.

1485
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:06,480
We, you know, I think we, we done them justice and, you know, earned some laurels from the

1486
01:39:06,480 --> 01:39:11,000
thing.

1487
01:39:11,000 --> 01:39:15,240
When I talk to a lot of people that served the state with Afghanistan first, that were

1488
01:39:15,240 --> 01:39:19,640
in Afghanistan, I seem to get the same kind of answer from a lot of the people, especially

1489
01:39:19,640 --> 01:39:21,680
in the special operations community.

1490
01:39:21,680 --> 01:39:27,180
And it almost is mirrored by a guy just had recently Rasul Rasekh, who's a former Musha

1491
01:39:27,180 --> 01:39:31,960
Hadin fighter, he was fighting the Taliban this whole time and he's now trying to bring

1492
01:39:31,960 --> 01:39:35,000
the Afghan people back together again.

1493
01:39:35,000 --> 01:39:42,080
But I hear over and over again that strategically, if we had gone in, taken care of the things

1494
01:39:42,080 --> 01:39:45,480
that need to be taken care of, whether it was capturing key targets, shutting down training

1495
01:39:45,480 --> 01:39:50,640
camps and then left, that would have been more effective.

1496
01:39:50,640 --> 01:39:54,600
What is, you know, obviously 20 years later, we have the withdrawal certainly was subpar

1497
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:55,600
at that point.

1498
01:39:55,600 --> 01:39:58,880
When you talked about Basra, you know, we gave up that airport too.

1499
01:39:58,880 --> 01:40:02,880
If you were king for a day strategically, I mean, being, you know, in a position that

1500
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:06,360
you are, obviously you were a leader in the Royal Marines.

1501
01:40:06,360 --> 01:40:10,680
If we could do it again and that same situation happened, whereas as you said, there are,

1502
01:40:10,680 --> 01:40:15,400
there are people sometimes that you have to physically go and take out strategically,

1503
01:40:15,400 --> 01:40:17,120
what would you do differently?

1504
01:40:17,120 --> 01:40:25,880
I'll not be political, if the task has gone ahead and you have to achieve it, you've got

1505
01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:29,200
to have a, you've got to have a depth plan.

1506
01:40:29,200 --> 01:40:37,360
You've got to have a, a staged depth plan, which covers the initial insertion, the surgical

1507
01:40:37,360 --> 01:40:46,040
requirement, but also whatever void or vacuum is left in structural, socially and governmentally

1508
01:40:46,040 --> 01:40:51,320
is filled properly and appropriately with relevant people.

1509
01:40:51,320 --> 01:40:56,200
So all your intelligence backup or your, your Intel going through this building up is who

1510
01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:59,600
are the personalities, who are they, you know, the people in the communities.

1511
01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:04,240
Cause all these communities have senior leads and people that are, you know, and criminal

1512
01:41:04,240 --> 01:41:08,120
elements as well, but you want the people that have got the moral fiber to fill that

1513
01:41:08,120 --> 01:41:09,120
void.

1514
01:41:09,120 --> 01:41:11,080
No, that who's the, who's their opponent.

1515
01:41:11,080 --> 01:41:13,480
If there was a democracy, who would be their opponent be?

1516
01:41:13,480 --> 01:41:18,560
That's the person you want because he's got the democratic will rather than the gun will,

1517
01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:19,560
you know what I mean?

1518
01:41:19,560 --> 01:41:20,560
So that, that, that was it.

1519
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:21,560
That should all be, be, be templated.

1520
01:41:21,560 --> 01:41:26,160
And then that could be part of the surgical strike could be done with surgical, surgical

1521
01:41:26,160 --> 01:41:27,160
influence straight away.

1522
01:41:27,160 --> 01:41:32,240
You know, and I think, I think that was, that was tabled and that was wanting to happen,

1523
01:41:32,240 --> 01:41:38,160
but you know, obviously things, things, you still have to, there's elements of the ground.

1524
01:41:38,160 --> 01:41:41,840
What we find, we've done a, we've done a raid one night.

1525
01:41:41,840 --> 01:41:46,160
And after we came back from the raid, so we went in with an enemy location, but between

1526
01:41:46,160 --> 01:41:50,880
30, 30 to 30 and 30 year enemy and depth targets.

1527
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:58,280
And we closed in on the location, hit them quite hard, but we broke contact and you know,

1528
01:41:58,280 --> 01:42:00,760
got our way back to our lines.

1529
01:42:00,760 --> 01:42:07,560
And when we got back to our lines, we re we've rearmored, we got our weapons prepped again.

1530
01:42:07,560 --> 01:42:12,440
Like obviously we're, you know, we're within about 5k at the actual point.

1531
01:42:12,440 --> 01:42:18,900
We were actually, you know, targeting the enemy and we, we, we got ourselves remastered

1532
01:42:18,900 --> 01:42:25,480
and the next day when daylight came, we had about like 30, 40 Iraqi troops come down surrendering

1533
01:42:25,480 --> 01:42:27,360
after we'd done the raid.

1534
01:42:27,360 --> 01:42:33,240
But when we went back in, cause the next night we were going to do another raid in a similar

1535
01:42:33,240 --> 01:42:37,800
sort of target area, but we got to go ahead that we were going to carry out Op James and

1536
01:42:37,800 --> 01:42:40,320
that was secure in the actual village.

1537
01:42:40,320 --> 01:42:43,320
And then that would be a foothold into Basra.

1538
01:42:43,320 --> 01:42:48,720
And when we got that, we would, we went forward and what we found was that the, what was left

1539
01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:54,200
of the enemy and I were all, they were fed IAN, you call, which were fundamentalists.

1540
01:42:54,200 --> 01:43:00,080
No, they were, you know, somebody say theological sort of fundamentalists who, who, you know,

1541
01:43:00,080 --> 01:43:05,160
they, we, we were the infidel and that was, you know, they were, and what, sadly, what

1542
01:43:05,160 --> 01:43:11,000
I've seen from them is they were all very young, very poor and you know, they hadn't

1543
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:14,560
got the education, their education had come from people that said that they were, they

1544
01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:20,480
were going to become martyrs and they were just, they hated us for, for us being us,

1545
01:43:20,480 --> 01:43:21,720
which was sad for them.

1546
01:43:21,720 --> 01:43:26,140
And there's no disrespect for me there cause they stood in for, but unfortunately if they

1547
01:43:26,140 --> 01:43:31,440
had have surrendered like the regular guys did the day before, that would have been so

1548
01:43:31,440 --> 01:43:34,600
much easier for us.

1549
01:43:34,600 --> 01:43:37,280
Now conversely, obviously we're talking about combat.

1550
01:43:37,280 --> 01:43:41,880
You touched on the humanity of people, you know, that you saw obviously in, in Northern

1551
01:43:41,880 --> 01:43:44,120
Ireland and Kosovo.

1552
01:43:44,120 --> 01:43:45,880
Talk to me about Iraq and Afghanistan.

1553
01:43:45,880 --> 01:43:52,120
I think one of the things that, again, going back to the media that was so irresponsible

1554
01:43:52,120 --> 01:43:55,340
was it was presented at, we were at war with Iraq.

1555
01:43:55,340 --> 01:43:57,000
We were at war with Afghanistan.

1556
01:43:57,000 --> 01:44:01,440
Whereas there were two countries that are being oppressed by extremists that you guys

1557
01:44:01,440 --> 01:44:04,540
were in there trying to infiltrate.

1558
01:44:04,540 --> 01:44:11,320
So talk to me about that humanity, that kindness and compassion that, you know, the, the similarities

1559
01:44:11,320 --> 01:44:15,080
that you witnessed in those two countries, you know, with that same lens that we discussed

1560
01:44:15,080 --> 01:44:17,360
earlier.

1561
01:44:17,360 --> 01:44:26,700
When I think it's the same in, in, in Kosovo as well, it's that it's human beings.

1562
01:44:26,700 --> 01:44:32,160
When we were in Iraq, when we started closing with the enemy and closing with the civilian

1563
01:44:32,160 --> 01:44:37,440
population, I can, you sort of, there was like a natural vibe within the population,

1564
01:44:37,440 --> 01:44:40,320
you know, the village elders, people come out and I would speak to them.

1565
01:44:40,320 --> 01:44:46,800
I mean, and I'd say we did have to be quite reserved of information that we're given

1566
01:44:46,800 --> 01:44:52,120
is because there was still a lot of, should we say, inter-tribal sort of structures, you

1567
01:44:52,120 --> 01:44:56,200
know, they, they seen, you know, when they're in the little mini communities, they seen

1568
01:44:56,200 --> 01:45:00,080
that there was, there was a void now and this could be their, their turn to step up and

1569
01:45:00,080 --> 01:45:03,460
make their, their clan, the strong clan as such.

1570
01:45:03,460 --> 01:45:07,920
So we had to be quite tempered with our, you know, we never took executive decisions on,

1571
01:45:07,920 --> 01:45:12,400
you know, think of, we would hoover up Intel and pass it back, you know, intelligence and

1572
01:45:12,400 --> 01:45:13,800
get it passed through.

1573
01:45:13,800 --> 01:45:17,080
But for the people, they were exactly the same.

1574
01:45:17,080 --> 01:45:21,120
They were the human beings and the people that we found when we started getting into

1575
01:45:21,120 --> 01:45:25,080
Basra and they had nothing, they hadn't been given water, they hadn't been given food,

1576
01:45:25,080 --> 01:45:27,240
they were getting rationed food.

1577
01:45:27,240 --> 01:45:32,480
And because they were, to be said, they weren't Sunni, they were Shia, they weren't, you know,

1578
01:45:32,480 --> 01:45:35,680
I mean, they were subjugated massively.

1579
01:45:35,680 --> 01:45:39,480
So they were literally, when we arrived, we were, we were liberators.

1580
01:45:39,480 --> 01:45:43,320
It looked like some of the scenes in, you know, in Paris and in France, like the second

1581
01:45:43,320 --> 01:45:44,320
world war, that's it.

1582
01:45:44,320 --> 01:45:48,400
They were thinking out, and we spent, when we did, you know, secure different, you know,

1583
01:45:48,400 --> 01:45:52,320
phases of it, we were, we were bringing water in, we were getting sort of supply, we were

1584
01:45:52,320 --> 01:45:53,320
getting medical help.

1585
01:45:53,320 --> 01:45:58,320
You know, we were just, we were helping people that had been basically persecuted for, for,

1586
01:45:58,320 --> 01:46:04,920
for quite a while, you know, and, you know, and similarly in Afghanistan, that was similar

1587
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:10,920
when we, when we got down to the Helmand area and in the Western, when we were in the,

1588
01:46:10,920 --> 01:46:15,640
in the Hindu Kutra in the Western part of, you know, Western Highlands, you know, of

1589
01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:22,560
Afghanistan, some of the villages we were going to, I guess, taken with a pinch of salt,

1590
01:46:22,560 --> 01:46:25,880
we're saying, no, we've never seen the Taliban, never.

1591
01:46:25,880 --> 01:46:30,520
And strangely enough, the guy, I remember one guy telling me, and he was, he was about

1592
01:46:30,520 --> 01:46:35,920
a foot taller than me, his English was far better than my English.

1593
01:46:35,920 --> 01:46:37,280
And it is massive.

1594
01:46:37,280 --> 01:46:40,880
He looked like the most classic Taliban fighter you've ever seen in your life, big black disc

1595
01:46:40,880 --> 01:46:41,880
dash that.

1596
01:46:41,880 --> 01:46:43,920
He goes, no, no, no, the Taliban aren't here.

1597
01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:48,000
And he goes, the Taliban aren't, aren't, you know, they're not the enemy.

1598
01:46:48,000 --> 01:46:50,800
They're, there's, there's good Taliban and there's bad Taliban.

1599
01:46:50,800 --> 01:46:55,680
And I always kept this, I kept this and I thought, well, yeah, fair one.

1600
01:46:55,680 --> 01:46:57,800
He says, it means you're a student.

1601
01:46:57,800 --> 01:47:04,440
And he brought me into his madrasa where he had all these, these young boys reading the

1602
01:47:04,440 --> 01:47:11,560
Quran or reciting the Quran and they're all reciting the Quran in Arab because it's written

1603
01:47:11,560 --> 01:47:14,240
in Arab, but they're Pashtuns.

1604
01:47:14,240 --> 01:47:19,480
So they speak Pashtun and they, they don't speak Arab, but they can recite the Quran

1605
01:47:19,480 --> 01:47:20,800
in Arab.

1606
01:47:20,800 --> 01:47:25,640
And this, this was a school and I was going, you know, I'm not, I can't, I'm not, the

1607
01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:27,120
measure of protocol, the Taliban.

1608
01:47:27,120 --> 01:47:30,200
So we'd search for weapons and everything else in that there and carry on and be as

1609
01:47:30,200 --> 01:47:31,200
nice as possible.

1610
01:47:31,200 --> 01:47:32,200
Is there anything we can do for you?

1611
01:47:32,200 --> 01:47:36,960
And he goes, Oh, we've had, we had a, a well-fitted last year, so we've all got clean water and

1612
01:47:36,960 --> 01:47:37,960
this and that.

1613
01:47:37,960 --> 01:47:41,920
So, and to be honest, he was, he was a polite, he was a nice guy, but you know, I definitely

1614
01:47:41,920 --> 01:47:46,520
think he was, he was one of the students that considered himself a good Taliban.

1615
01:47:46,520 --> 01:47:51,760
And we went away from there, but since, since doing that, since being back in, in Southwest

1616
01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:59,680
of England, I got a taxi back from the pub once and the taxi driver was from Afghanistan

1617
01:47:59,680 --> 01:48:03,960
and he was an interpreter in Afghanistan and he was one of the nicest blokes.

1618
01:48:03,960 --> 01:48:04,960
I was just going on, what are you doing?

1619
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:07,120
It was, well, do you know what, they're working at the hospital.

1620
01:48:07,120 --> 01:48:10,320
I do this, do this to work with trolleys that at night, got taxing out there because I've

1621
01:48:10,320 --> 01:48:11,320
got my family here and everything else.

1622
01:48:11,320 --> 01:48:14,840
And I was just mega, you know, it was just, and he was really, you know, he's articulate

1623
01:48:14,840 --> 01:48:15,840
and he was, he was great.

1624
01:48:15,840 --> 01:48:19,720
I said, like, you know, have you, you know, sad times of what happened.

1625
01:48:19,720 --> 01:48:21,440
And he goes, he said, I'm, I'm broken.

1626
01:48:21,440 --> 01:48:22,440
I'm brokenhearted.

1627
01:48:22,440 --> 01:48:25,080
You know, you know, what has happened?

1628
01:48:25,080 --> 01:48:28,160
And I said, well, I said, I did meet this one guy.

1629
01:48:28,160 --> 01:48:30,360
He said, there's good Taliban and bad Taliban.

1630
01:48:30,360 --> 01:48:35,000
And he went, and he was that really, really got him riled up.

1631
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:37,320
And he said, there's no good Taliban.

1632
01:48:37,320 --> 01:48:43,000
It was absolutely, he says, no, they've destroyed everything that Afghanistan means to me.

1633
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:44,800
And I couldn't argue with him.

1634
01:48:44,800 --> 01:48:45,800
It was his country.

1635
01:48:45,800 --> 01:48:54,000
It was, you know, and he, you know, he's a switch song cookie, but yeah, I, I, and

1636
01:48:54,000 --> 01:48:55,000
I keep that one.

1637
01:48:55,000 --> 01:48:59,280
I don't, you know, I'm, it does make people say, oh, there's good Taliban, bad Taliban.

1638
01:48:59,280 --> 01:49:03,640
I just listen in, but knowing, you know, when you're chatting to somebody and he really,

1639
01:49:03,640 --> 01:49:08,400
that, that, that, that was something that, he was the most polite and wonderful person.

1640
01:49:08,400 --> 01:49:12,840
As soon as I said that, that was, he said, no, no, no, no, no, no.

1641
01:49:12,840 --> 01:49:19,560
And then when, when we watched those images, when, and the sad thing is, because I spent

1642
01:49:19,560 --> 01:49:25,400
so much of my life being a, you know, a Royal Marines commando, when we leave somewhere

1643
01:49:25,400 --> 01:49:31,040
like that, when we've, we've sacrificed so much blood and, and treasure, you know, the,

1644
01:49:31,040 --> 01:49:35,160
you know, the, the young men that, that I work with, who died, lost their lives out

1645
01:49:35,160 --> 01:49:39,480
there and have lost their lives back, back here, they were incredible.

1646
01:49:39,480 --> 01:49:40,480
Absolutely.

1647
01:49:40,480 --> 01:49:46,160
I mean, we're talking, you know, I mean, the, you know, I mean, they just, they, they, they

1648
01:49:46,160 --> 01:49:49,580
were the, they were all, they were like, you know, the height of their generation.

1649
01:49:49,580 --> 01:49:52,840
They were the pinnacle of their generation.

1650
01:49:52,840 --> 01:49:58,400
And then for, we knew it was going to be a long, it was a long drought, only because

1651
01:49:58,400 --> 01:50:01,920
of the politics and the planning, but we knew the culture and the culture of the people.

1652
01:50:01,920 --> 01:50:05,840
And again, like I say, all the other places, the people are exactly the same.

1653
01:50:05,840 --> 01:50:10,080
When we used to go into villages, they'd go, obviously take them to the pinch of salt.

1654
01:50:10,080 --> 01:50:14,240
Obviously all they want is for the good things for the family, the education, this and that,

1655
01:50:14,240 --> 01:50:19,360
all that there, but also if they blame somebody else, say somebody else's Taliban, take it

1656
01:50:19,360 --> 01:50:23,640
with the pinch of salt, because it's all that, you know, it's culturally, it's, it's, it's

1657
01:50:23,640 --> 01:50:24,640
what they do.

1658
01:50:24,640 --> 01:50:28,800
You mean that, that, that, you know, not saying it, but they are human beings.

1659
01:50:28,800 --> 01:50:33,800
And when we were out there, we met some incredible, incredibly strong, wonderful people who supported

1660
01:50:33,800 --> 01:50:34,800
us.

1661
01:50:34,800 --> 01:50:41,920
They were interpreters and everything, and, you know, tiger teams and, and, you know,

1662
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:42,920
people that work with us.

1663
01:50:42,920 --> 01:50:46,160
We also worked with some people that were not so good.

1664
01:50:46,160 --> 01:50:51,200
And you know, I've, I've lost a few colleagues to green on blues as well, where they've been

1665
01:50:51,200 --> 01:50:54,160
killed by, by so-called police forces.

1666
01:50:54,160 --> 01:50:56,520
So that, but we fought that.

1667
01:50:56,520 --> 01:50:57,520
That's what we done.

1668
01:50:57,520 --> 01:50:59,080
We, we, it was our expectations.

1669
01:50:59,080 --> 01:51:04,840
We knew it was going to be a hard, nutritional war, but for us to leave at such a, you know,

1670
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:11,920
a quick, it's such a quick way with an expectation that we're going to, they were going to last

1671
01:51:11,920 --> 01:51:12,920
longer.

1672
01:51:12,920 --> 01:51:19,680
Even, even with hindsight, I still at the time think we, we, we, we obviously failed

1673
01:51:19,680 --> 01:51:20,680
massively.

1674
01:51:20,680 --> 01:51:25,640
And I think our, our massive organizations that support, you know, the Intel and everything

1675
01:51:25,640 --> 01:51:27,920
else and that they failed miserably.

1676
01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:33,840
And if in some way I've got to look, my friends that were killed in operations in Afghanistan,

1677
01:51:33,840 --> 01:51:35,440
I've got to look, and Iraq as well.

1678
01:51:35,440 --> 01:51:41,840
I've got to look the mothers in the eye and the families and say that wasn't in vain.

1679
01:51:41,840 --> 01:51:42,840
Yeah.

1680
01:51:42,840 --> 01:51:47,120
If you turn around and look behind, you know, I look at Afghanistan, there's not that much

1681
01:51:47,120 --> 01:51:49,560
difference now, is it?

1682
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:55,160
Now is that is extremely sad, extremely sad, but it's extremely, it makes me extremely

1683
01:51:55,160 --> 01:52:01,040
not only sad, but extremely wary because the fact is we went there for a reason and that

1684
01:52:01,040 --> 01:52:07,560
reason tenses backward is, and that's, that's even, I mean, general relation, generational

1685
01:52:07,560 --> 01:52:09,960
again, isn't it?

1686
01:52:09,960 --> 01:52:10,960
Yeah.

1687
01:52:10,960 --> 01:52:11,960
No, exactly.

1688
01:52:11,960 --> 01:52:12,960
It's ironic.

1689
01:52:12,960 --> 01:52:13,960
Actually, I just took an Uber.

1690
01:52:13,960 --> 01:52:18,680
I was in Dallas interviewing two world war two veterans, Iwo Jima veterans.

1691
01:52:18,680 --> 01:52:24,960
And on the way there, I had an Afghan Uber driver who was an interpreter for the U S

1692
01:52:24,960 --> 01:52:25,960
army.

1693
01:52:25,960 --> 01:52:29,200
So I had a very similar conversation with him and, you know, it was the same thing.

1694
01:52:29,200 --> 01:52:34,720
And then Russell, who just came on, Oh, like four months ago, you know, what we're not

1695
01:52:34,720 --> 01:52:37,600
being told, obviously there's the toll of us just pulling out.

1696
01:52:37,600 --> 01:52:42,360
There's the kind of comparison with Vietnam.

1697
01:52:42,360 --> 01:52:46,960
But now Afghanistan is about to go through his winter and there are people on all the

1698
01:52:46,960 --> 01:52:51,160
borders that are starving to death, freezing to death on top of the oppression from the

1699
01:52:51,160 --> 01:52:52,160
Taliban.

1700
01:52:52,160 --> 01:52:56,320
And we're not really hearing, you know, the, the, again, you talk about voids, you know,

1701
01:52:56,320 --> 01:52:59,120
what happened in that void after we all pulled away.

1702
01:52:59,120 --> 01:53:00,120
Yeah.

1703
01:53:00,120 --> 01:53:02,560
And that, and that, and let's just say they're proper winters.

1704
01:53:02,560 --> 01:53:04,040
They're not in those mountains.

1705
01:53:04,040 --> 01:53:07,960
They are, you know, you know, these big, big, big places.

1706
01:53:07,960 --> 01:53:13,920
Well, I mean, I wouldn't get one of my friends, which I'll tell you about anyway, but I've

1707
01:53:13,920 --> 01:53:19,080
got, I've got a friend who's, who's done a documentary, who's a former all Marines and

1708
01:53:19,080 --> 01:53:27,080
special forces guy who was out there when, when Afghan fell and he was filming at a time

1709
01:53:27,080 --> 01:53:30,960
him and a, another former all Marine were filming at a time and they, they captured

1710
01:53:30,960 --> 01:53:37,200
it all and they're, they've, they've, they've released a documentary called Afghanistan

1711
01:53:37,200 --> 01:53:42,280
and it's, it's filmed, you know, it's filmed another time.

1712
01:53:42,280 --> 01:53:48,400
I mean, I mean, it's, it's, you know, you're recording and editing anyway, so it's named

1713
01:53:48,400 --> 01:53:53,960
James Glancy, but I can, I can, you know, if you, if you Google him James Glancy in

1714
01:53:53,960 --> 01:53:56,720
Afghanistan, then that's good.

1715
01:53:56,720 --> 01:54:01,760
I do, I do a, I do an American voiceover on it.

1716
01:54:01,760 --> 01:54:04,680
Don't critique me.

1717
01:54:04,680 --> 01:54:08,560
I was telling my wife this the other day, you know, when I first came to America, you

1718
01:54:08,560 --> 01:54:12,000
know, and I worked on a performing arts summer camp.

1719
01:54:12,000 --> 01:54:16,560
So I was around the kids and spend some of the teachers were like these actors and like,

1720
01:54:16,560 --> 01:54:19,280
oh my God, I do the best American accent.

1721
01:54:19,280 --> 01:54:23,200
I mean, the English accent and that'd be like, hello, you know, it would just be awful.

1722
01:54:23,200 --> 01:54:27,960
And then you'd just be like, that is by far one of the best Pakistani accents I've ever

1723
01:54:27,960 --> 01:54:28,960
heard.

1724
01:54:28,960 --> 01:54:30,960
And then be crushed.

1725
01:54:30,960 --> 01:54:31,960
But yeah.

1726
01:54:31,960 --> 01:54:35,960
So, I mean, I, I, you know, it's, it's a scary thing.

1727
01:54:35,960 --> 01:54:41,280
Actually, I just had Sean Taylor on, sorry, Shane Taylor from Bander Brothers a while

1728
01:54:41,280 --> 01:54:44,840
ago and he played the medic, you know, so that's impressive.

1729
01:54:44,840 --> 01:54:45,840
There's a lot of times where

1730
01:54:45,840 --> 01:54:46,840
he's awesome.

1731
01:54:46,840 --> 01:54:48,560
And he plays an awesome part as well.

1732
01:54:48,560 --> 01:54:49,560
Yeah.

1733
01:54:49,560 --> 01:54:51,560
He's one of the saddest moments in the film, isn't it?

1734
01:54:51,560 --> 01:54:52,560
Absolutely.

1735
01:54:52,560 --> 01:54:53,560
Absolutely.

1736
01:54:53,560 --> 01:54:54,560
In that church.

1737
01:54:54,560 --> 01:54:55,560
So, so yeah.

1738
01:54:55,560 --> 01:54:59,680
So, I mean, it's, it's funny you say that because, you know, I think when you're humble,

1739
01:54:59,680 --> 01:55:03,320
the accents terrify you because you trying to get it right for the people that are native

1740
01:55:03,320 --> 01:55:04,320
to that area.

1741
01:55:04,320 --> 01:55:08,640
But it does make me laugh when people say, you know, I'm, I'm so good at Australian accent

1742
01:55:08,640 --> 01:55:12,360
X and you listen to it and you're like, oh my God, no.

1743
01:55:12,360 --> 01:55:20,040
But, but what I get is, I mean, I, I would say that I'm, I'm okay with doing accents

1744
01:55:20,040 --> 01:55:23,560
as long as you've got time to focus on and create it.

1745
01:55:23,560 --> 01:55:26,320
But everyone gives it, but just do, do, do a Scottish accent.

1746
01:55:26,320 --> 01:55:31,120
No, you're going, it's just not, it's not, you just, it is not the same.

1747
01:55:31,120 --> 01:55:35,400
You just gotta, yeah, let's just get back, get back, live it, live the script, live that

1748
01:55:35,400 --> 01:55:36,640
there and you do become it.

1749
01:55:36,640 --> 01:55:39,280
It's different because everyone's, I love that.

1750
01:55:39,280 --> 01:55:40,280
I love it.

1751
01:55:40,280 --> 01:55:42,880
Especially you, I mean, you, you come from England, so you, you know what I mean?

1752
01:55:42,880 --> 01:55:46,280
Within England, the amount of different accents, it's bonkers, isn't it?

1753
01:55:46,280 --> 01:55:47,280
Absolutely bonkers.

1754
01:55:47,280 --> 01:55:48,280
Yeah.

1755
01:55:48,280 --> 01:55:49,280
Like an hour from it.

1756
01:55:49,280 --> 01:55:52,800
So magical, you know, less than an hour sometimes.

1757
01:55:52,800 --> 01:55:55,560
So that's, that is the magic of it.

1758
01:55:55,560 --> 01:55:56,560
Absolutely.

1759
01:55:56,560 --> 01:55:57,960
Well, that's the perfect segue.

1760
01:55:57,960 --> 01:56:04,480
So as you kind of get to the end of your career in uniform, you start thinking about drama,

1761
01:56:04,480 --> 01:56:05,480
the world of acting.

1762
01:56:05,480 --> 01:56:10,240
So what, you know, when, when did that hit you and what made you make the jump into drama

1763
01:56:10,240 --> 01:56:11,240
school?

1764
01:56:11,240 --> 01:56:17,160
Well, so the, I wasn't focused on drama, honestly.

1765
01:56:17,160 --> 01:56:18,560
I was focused on being a bootleg.

1766
01:56:18,560 --> 01:56:24,960
And I think it came to the realization that I was in the same commando unit as my son.

1767
01:56:24,960 --> 01:56:30,200
I thought, and I was wearing reading glasses and I was sitting in front of a computer screen.

1768
01:56:30,200 --> 01:56:36,520
I was the captain now and I'm like, oh, this isn't, and I was lucky enough.

1769
01:56:36,520 --> 01:56:38,680
I got to play commandos most of my life, you know what I mean?

1770
01:56:38,680 --> 01:56:39,680
Most of my career.

1771
01:56:39,680 --> 01:56:41,120
So this is up to near 30 years.

1772
01:56:41,120 --> 01:56:46,960
And I thought, I just, and I'd never ever thought of this at any single point up until

1773
01:56:46,960 --> 01:56:50,840
this point and went, I need to do something else.

1774
01:56:50,840 --> 01:56:51,840
And that was it.

1775
01:56:51,840 --> 01:56:56,120
And then I thought about what, what is it that, what skills can map across?

1776
01:56:56,120 --> 01:56:57,120
And there's loads.

1777
01:56:57,120 --> 01:57:03,080
I mean, obviously I can go off to a far flung hot place and teach people how to be commandos.

1778
01:57:03,080 --> 01:57:05,520
And I'm going, I can't do that.

1779
01:57:05,520 --> 01:57:06,520
I couldn't do that.

1780
01:57:06,520 --> 01:57:09,560
And I have so many friends have done that, but I thought I just, I just couldn't do it.

1781
01:57:09,560 --> 01:57:12,360
So what is it, what else do I have to do?

1782
01:57:12,360 --> 01:57:17,480
And then I realized it in the forces and you know, this in the fire service as well.

1783
01:57:17,480 --> 01:57:19,160
It's all about storytelling, isn't it?

1784
01:57:19,160 --> 01:57:21,200
It's all about, it's all about, we call it the ditz.

1785
01:57:21,200 --> 01:57:22,880
It's all about spinning the ditz.

1786
01:57:22,880 --> 01:57:26,880
So telling the story is called spinning the ditz in the, in naval speak and in marine

1787
01:57:26,880 --> 01:57:28,120
speak.

1788
01:57:28,120 --> 01:57:34,600
So it's all about telling a story and being, I mean, sailors are saying, Marines are saying

1789
01:57:34,600 --> 01:57:38,360
service people, veterans, firefighters and all, and policemen all the same.

1790
01:57:38,360 --> 01:57:39,920
They all tell a good story, don't they?

1791
01:57:39,920 --> 01:57:43,560
That's when they've been on a gig or on a job and that it all comes in.

1792
01:57:43,560 --> 01:57:45,640
It's all about the stories.

1793
01:57:45,640 --> 01:57:51,200
So I went to a local university in a, in the Southwest and looked at creative writing.

1794
01:57:51,200 --> 01:57:53,680
So I thought, right, I'll be a storyteller and write stories.

1795
01:57:53,680 --> 01:57:56,120
That's, that's something I would love to do.

1796
01:57:56,120 --> 01:58:02,720
And while I was looking at it, there was a, an acting degree, you know, to do actor training

1797
01:58:02,720 --> 01:58:03,720
for three years.

1798
01:58:03,720 --> 01:58:06,720
I thought that's the way we tell stories.

1799
01:58:06,720 --> 01:58:08,120
You know, that's it.

1800
01:58:08,120 --> 01:58:09,120
It's me.

1801
01:58:09,120 --> 01:58:10,280
I'm a storyteller.

1802
01:58:10,280 --> 01:58:12,240
So let's, let's, let's get amongst it.

1803
01:58:12,240 --> 01:58:14,280
So I, I looked at it.

1804
01:58:14,280 --> 01:58:16,760
I did quite a bit of prep for it.

1805
01:58:16,760 --> 01:58:19,600
You know, you had the audition, get yourself a place and everything else.

1806
01:58:19,600 --> 01:58:23,760
And I got on the course and I went to Marjolene university in Plymouth and trained with the

1807
01:58:23,760 --> 01:58:25,760
actors wheel for three years.

1808
01:58:25,760 --> 01:58:31,360
When I started my actor training, I was 47 years old and the nearest age to me in my,

1809
01:58:31,360 --> 01:58:37,720
in my group was, she was 23 and, and she was a mature student.

1810
01:58:37,720 --> 01:58:42,640
And as you love to go as well, like, but after that, everyone else were about 18 and they

1811
01:58:42,640 --> 01:58:44,880
were all starting her adventure.

1812
01:58:44,880 --> 01:58:49,400
And it was a, my partner said to me at the time said, I think you should join, do this

1813
01:58:49,400 --> 01:58:53,160
seamless transfer and just not leave them, just join straight into the reserves.

1814
01:58:53,160 --> 01:58:55,080
I said, well, no, but I've done my time.

1815
01:58:55,080 --> 01:58:59,960
I've, you know, I've, I've sort of fared that the Royal Marine beasts that I'd met needed

1816
01:58:59,960 --> 01:59:00,960
to be fed.

1817
01:59:00,960 --> 01:59:04,560
And she was, no, I really, I really do think you should do it.

1818
01:59:04,560 --> 01:59:08,800
And within that, I reckon about two days, I realized that was probably the most smartest

1819
01:59:08,800 --> 01:59:09,800
thing I ever heard.

1820
01:59:09,800 --> 01:59:15,320
So whilst I was recently, you know, fusing back into civilian life and, and you full

1821
01:59:15,320 --> 01:59:21,000
sort of university life, I was able to sort of like, you know, nip away and do, do marine

1822
01:59:21,000 --> 01:59:24,720
things and talk to haggard old horrible guys like me.

1823
01:59:24,720 --> 01:59:28,440
And just that, that helped bring my little bit of reality back.

1824
01:59:28,440 --> 01:59:33,920
And, you know, allowed me to sort of fuse back into the real world as such, you know

1825
01:59:33,920 --> 01:59:41,040
and, and, but I had a great time training with all these youngins and I graduated in

1826
01:59:41,040 --> 01:59:44,600
2018 and things started off really well.

1827
01:59:44,600 --> 01:59:49,280
Started off on a, doing a national tour with the play, went to Edinburgh festival, performed

1828
01:59:49,280 --> 01:59:52,480
in Salisbury, Wales, London and Liverpool, Manchester.

1829
01:59:52,480 --> 01:59:58,080
And then, uh, I, well, everything was running.

1830
01:59:58,080 --> 02:00:03,040
It was like, you know, back to back, I performed at Shakespeare's Globe and going, right, I

1831
02:00:03,040 --> 02:00:04,640
might get away with this one.

1832
02:00:04,640 --> 02:00:06,320
And then COVID happened.

1833
02:00:06,320 --> 02:00:11,160
And then it was like, Ooh, for the whole world, everyone, stop.

1834
02:00:11,160 --> 02:00:16,400
So COVID happened, but I managed to get a few jobs through COVID.

1835
02:00:16,400 --> 02:00:17,400
I got a commercial.

1836
02:00:17,400 --> 02:00:20,400
I sent you link to the commercial at that time.

1837
02:00:20,400 --> 02:00:22,600
I can't remember if you did.

1838
02:00:22,600 --> 02:00:29,360
But then, uh, I, I played two brothers and say for a big, uh, massive, so like a international

1839
02:00:29,360 --> 02:00:35,840
haulage firm and, uh, I went and flew out to, and it was just in the first little gap

1840
02:00:35,840 --> 02:00:42,000
of COVID, flew out to Milan, was obviously completely empty Heathrow airport with a mask

1841
02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:47,520
on flew out to Milan, uh, and filmed in Milan and in the Dolomites up in the mountains and

1842
02:00:47,520 --> 02:00:50,000
on a mountain lake, uh, over the next week.

1843
02:00:50,000 --> 02:00:51,000
And it was brilliant.

1844
02:00:51,000 --> 02:00:52,000
Really enjoyed it.

1845
02:00:52,000 --> 02:00:53,000
Got back.

1846
02:00:53,000 --> 02:00:55,520
So my agent was happy because she's going, there's no work about it.

1847
02:00:55,520 --> 02:00:56,520
You got that.

1848
02:00:56,520 --> 02:00:57,520
That's a winner.

1849
02:00:57,520 --> 02:01:02,960
So I got, I got a commercial in and then I got a job as a, which is good because it's

1850
02:01:02,960 --> 02:01:03,960
coming out shortly.

1851
02:01:03,960 --> 02:01:07,320
Have you seen the next, Oh, you were talking about you've, you've worked with, you've spoken

1852
02:01:07,320 --> 02:01:08,800
with Dale die, haven't you?

1853
02:01:08,800 --> 02:01:13,120
Yes, actually just as of two days ago, he's supposed to be calling me and we're going

1854
02:01:13,120 --> 02:01:14,360
to get him back on the show.

1855
02:01:14,360 --> 02:01:20,200
So wait, just tell him I was that dodgy Irish Marine who was the COVID bastardo as you

1856
02:01:20,200 --> 02:01:21,200
can say.

1857
02:01:21,200 --> 02:01:27,000
So I, I was the one of the COVID, I was one of the, I was a COVID, my, my designation

1858
02:01:27,000 --> 02:01:31,400
was COVID set manager on, uh, or sorry, masters of the air.

1859
02:01:31,400 --> 02:01:37,560
So this is the big things coming out in January on, uh, uh, it's on Apple, isn't it?

1860
02:01:37,560 --> 02:01:40,960
But it, you know, it's not, it's weird.

1861
02:01:40,960 --> 02:01:43,440
It's, it was looking at it, looking at the trailer.

1862
02:01:43,440 --> 02:01:44,440
It's incredible.

1863
02:01:44,440 --> 02:01:49,600
And that trailer, apart from the sort of internal shots of the, the air shots in the air, nearly

1864
02:01:49,600 --> 02:01:54,360
every single scene I'm, I was standing watching it or watching people not wearing the masks.

1865
02:01:54,360 --> 02:01:56,880
So I was there as a COVID dude.

1866
02:01:56,880 --> 02:01:58,920
So it was, it was well paid.

1867
02:01:58,920 --> 02:02:02,280
It was not a very enjoyable job, but I think, I think it was a very important job because

1868
02:02:02,280 --> 02:02:05,040
it made the production actually happen.

1869
02:02:05,040 --> 02:02:08,440
I don't think I've done my acting career any good whatsoever.

1870
02:02:08,440 --> 02:02:14,840
It probably started with this dodgy Irish dude who was the COVID Nazi for the duration,

1871
02:02:14,840 --> 02:02:18,580
but I think it worked well and they got the production out in the end, didn't it?

1872
02:02:18,580 --> 02:02:25,720
So they'll, they'll probably remember that me at the time, but during that time as well,

1873
02:02:25,720 --> 02:02:29,120
we managed to film, start filming Sunray.

1874
02:02:29,120 --> 02:02:32,200
So this was like, you know, it's a couple of years now, isn't it?

1875
02:02:32,200 --> 02:02:35,840
So yeah, a couple of years ago in the summer.

1876
02:02:35,840 --> 02:02:42,320
So it was about just gone two years was when the meat of the film was done for both Masters

1877
02:02:42,320 --> 02:02:44,600
of the Air and for Sunray.

1878
02:02:44,600 --> 02:02:50,520
So Sunray now is, we managed to get the first film and sort of shoots done first through

1879
02:02:50,520 --> 02:02:58,080
three weeks worth done in that summer, then I finished off back in the Masters of the

1880
02:02:58,080 --> 02:03:01,480
Air and that's it.

1881
02:03:01,480 --> 02:03:06,520
Now after COVID, yeah, I've been generally sort of steady state running.

1882
02:03:06,520 --> 02:03:12,160
I've been doing a theatre work, a bit of film work, you know, and just, just keeping at

1883
02:03:12,160 --> 02:03:13,160
it.

1884
02:03:13,160 --> 02:03:17,380
Like I said, I just come back from Malta filming for the County of Monte Cristo.

1885
02:03:17,380 --> 02:03:23,640
Keep your eye for a very sort of like suave sword fencing French general at some stage.

1886
02:03:23,640 --> 02:03:29,540
Well, I have a question for you because I went to drama school in the Welsh College

1887
02:03:29,540 --> 02:03:33,640
of Music and Drama in Cardiff about, when was I there?

1888
02:03:33,640 --> 02:03:35,480
24 years ago.

1889
02:03:35,480 --> 02:03:37,180
And it was to follow a girl.

1890
02:03:37,180 --> 02:03:38,180
That's basically what happened.

1891
02:03:38,180 --> 02:03:41,960
My girlfriend at the time was a set designer and costume maker in that class.

1892
02:03:41,960 --> 02:03:47,760
And so I, with zero acting experience auditioned, somehow got in, I think I just wasn't like

1893
02:03:47,760 --> 02:03:51,200
you said, I was a little bit older, you know, I was a martial artist and all these things.

1894
02:03:51,200 --> 02:03:55,720
So that they were like, oh, we don't have, you know, this kind of person.

1895
02:03:55,720 --> 02:04:01,300
Went through the year of acting, discovered that I was really good at the swordplay stuff.

1896
02:04:01,300 --> 02:04:07,160
But to this day, I still consider myself one of the worst actors on the planet, hands down.

1897
02:04:07,160 --> 02:04:09,840
I just couldn't drop me.

1898
02:04:09,840 --> 02:04:10,840
You know what I mean?

1899
02:04:10,840 --> 02:04:12,160
I just couldn't get into that space.

1900
02:04:12,160 --> 02:04:14,120
Don't say that.

1901
02:04:14,120 --> 02:04:16,560
People probably say the same about me.

1902
02:04:16,560 --> 02:04:17,880
No, no, no.

1903
02:04:17,880 --> 02:04:20,780
I'm telling you, you work.

1904
02:04:20,780 --> 02:04:24,440
But when it came to the showcases at the end, it's funny, I talked about Welcome Home, Tony

1905
02:04:24,440 --> 02:04:27,920
Marchion, I had a monologue and it went really well.

1906
02:04:27,920 --> 02:04:31,160
And I got, oh my goodness, was William Morris.

1907
02:04:31,160 --> 02:04:36,040
I got William Morris approach me and say, I really loved your audition, but I'm not

1908
02:04:36,040 --> 02:04:41,800
the person who would handle you, so we need to get you with someone else.

1909
02:04:41,800 --> 02:04:43,800
Let me know when you get a play.

1910
02:04:43,800 --> 02:04:47,000
And this was, I got 2000, I think.

1911
02:04:47,000 --> 02:04:50,800
So I was stuck in this vicious circle of you need an agent to get work, you need work to

1912
02:04:50,800 --> 02:04:52,200
get an agent.

1913
02:04:52,200 --> 02:04:56,960
So with that whole kind of monologue, when you came out of school, how were you able

1914
02:04:56,960 --> 02:04:59,000
to be so successful right off the bat?

1915
02:04:59,000 --> 02:05:04,560
I mean, firstly, talk to me about how you were able to access the skills that make you

1916
02:05:04,560 --> 02:05:09,240
a good actor and secondly, how are you able to kind of break through that revolving door

1917
02:05:09,240 --> 02:05:12,000
of leaving drama school?

1918
02:05:12,000 --> 02:05:18,680
Rob, what I learned through actor training was because I mean, I started acting because

1919
02:05:18,680 --> 02:05:21,200
I want to be a storyteller.

1920
02:05:21,200 --> 02:05:27,680
But when you do get these stories and when you start looking at playwrights, looking

1921
02:05:27,680 --> 02:05:32,240
at plays, looking at classic films, looking at characters and you look at characters,

1922
02:05:32,240 --> 02:05:37,720
you see when you're going through emotional journeys with a character and what you learn

1923
02:05:37,720 --> 02:05:39,400
is it's got to be believable.

1924
02:05:39,400 --> 02:05:42,280
It's got to be believable, it's got to be credible.

1925
02:05:42,280 --> 02:05:48,800
And I, with the emotional characters, I was struggling with it.

1926
02:05:48,800 --> 02:05:49,800
I really do.

1927
02:05:49,800 --> 02:05:55,080
And I spoke to quite a few people about this, but because I just felt that for me to go

1928
02:05:55,080 --> 02:06:03,480
to places that do put me in that saddened state, that emotional state where you've got

1929
02:06:03,480 --> 02:06:09,320
tears and for years I haven't been able to do that because of, say, I believe because

1930
02:06:09,320 --> 02:06:17,320
of the emotional protection I've put in place and resistance I've put up whilst deployed

1931
02:06:17,320 --> 02:06:19,680
in operations and for that long career.

1932
02:06:19,680 --> 02:06:29,160
But I had to go into places and that meant thinking about lads I lost and the sacrifices

1933
02:06:29,160 --> 02:06:33,360
and family, loved ones and all sorts.

1934
02:06:33,360 --> 02:06:37,480
So that played with my moral compass.

1935
02:06:37,480 --> 02:06:46,160
That played with the, hold on a second, this is, am I just to create a story?

1936
02:06:46,160 --> 02:06:53,080
I'm using the most wonderful people and feelings I've got in my heart and soul to do it.

1937
02:06:53,080 --> 02:06:54,080
And I struggled with it.

1938
02:06:54,080 --> 02:06:55,320
I really struggled with it.

1939
02:06:55,320 --> 02:06:59,800
So I had to sit down and sort of play out why am I an actor?

1940
02:06:59,800 --> 02:07:02,040
Why am I a storyteller?

1941
02:07:02,040 --> 02:07:07,560
And then I realized for me to be a credible storyteller and to tell the tale properly

1942
02:07:07,560 --> 02:07:15,960
was, I had to go back and reach out to my friends who I'm an actor, hopefully a semi-credible

1943
02:07:15,960 --> 02:07:20,800
actor, because I can reach out to my friends who are dead and no longer with me and I can

1944
02:07:20,800 --> 02:07:22,800
keep their memories alive.

1945
02:07:22,800 --> 02:07:25,720
So people go, why are you acting?

1946
02:07:25,720 --> 02:07:26,720
I'm an actor.

1947
02:07:26,720 --> 02:07:32,720
I'm purely an actor that can achieve the characters because I've got a lot of dead friends that

1948
02:07:32,720 --> 02:07:36,840
I can tap into and can come and help me.

1949
02:07:36,840 --> 02:07:39,880
So their memories and their sacrifices are kept alive.

1950
02:07:39,880 --> 02:07:44,280
So whatever interview I do, I've got to make sure that people are aware of that.

1951
02:07:44,280 --> 02:07:48,200
That's so important for me as an actor.

1952
02:07:48,200 --> 02:07:51,520
And that goes into what have you learned to become an actor?

1953
02:07:51,520 --> 02:07:55,960
Being an actor, I mean, the best one liner I got when I was an actor training was Amanda

1954
02:07:55,960 --> 02:07:58,840
Collins, who was one of our lecturers from Ireland, from Wicklow.

1955
02:07:58,840 --> 02:08:06,000
And she just went, Roy Tip, get back up there and stop fucking acting.

1956
02:08:06,000 --> 02:08:07,000
And that's it.

1957
02:08:07,000 --> 02:08:09,960
So the fact is, you know, she's just right.

1958
02:08:09,960 --> 02:08:10,960
It is not.

1959
02:08:10,960 --> 02:08:12,440
She said it's sorry, right?

1960
02:08:12,440 --> 02:08:13,440
Act it part.

1961
02:08:13,440 --> 02:08:16,280
It goes back to the old classic Stanislavski and the dog.

1962
02:08:16,280 --> 02:08:19,000
They all pretend they're actors, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, acting, acting, acting,

1963
02:08:19,000 --> 02:08:20,000
acting.

1964
02:08:20,000 --> 02:08:21,600
Dogs are not interested, not interested.

1965
02:08:21,600 --> 02:08:25,400
Soon as they stop and they're getting themselves ready to go, dog's up, nose is going.

1966
02:08:25,400 --> 02:08:26,400
Why is that there?

1967
02:08:26,400 --> 02:08:27,400
It's because they're not acting anymore.

1968
02:08:27,400 --> 02:08:28,400
And that's it.

1969
02:08:28,400 --> 02:08:32,600
So if you say, if you pretend, right, I've got to act this, if you act something, it's

1970
02:08:32,600 --> 02:08:33,600
just, that's it.

1971
02:08:33,600 --> 02:08:34,600
It's always acting.

1972
02:08:34,600 --> 02:08:35,600
But it's not.

1973
02:08:35,600 --> 02:08:36,600
It's got to be.

1974
02:08:36,600 --> 02:08:43,040
You've got to, it's all about human engagement and every sort of like every feel and look.

1975
02:08:43,040 --> 02:08:47,520
And it, but also the two disciplines like acting for theatre and acting for camera,

1976
02:08:47,520 --> 02:08:49,240
they're like polar opposites.

1977
02:08:49,240 --> 02:08:52,680
It's like, you know, you are, but they, you still got to get the right, the same message

1978
02:08:52,680 --> 02:08:58,120
across, but you've got to do it with a big chunk of you that has been molded and formed

1979
02:08:58,120 --> 02:08:59,640
into part of the character.

1980
02:08:59,640 --> 02:09:06,520
The character is a character, but no nobody, you'll never be cast as a, well as anything

1981
02:09:06,520 --> 02:09:11,080
unless you, there's something in that character that's part of you, unless you're like, you

1982
02:09:11,080 --> 02:09:14,840
know, there's what, like 10 actors in the world that give it, they'll get it anyway.

1983
02:09:14,840 --> 02:09:15,920
It doesn't matter.

1984
02:09:15,920 --> 02:09:17,480
But generally everyone else has given it.

1985
02:09:17,480 --> 02:09:18,480
Yeah, that's, that's it.

1986
02:09:18,480 --> 02:09:19,480
That's it.

1987
02:09:19,480 --> 02:09:23,520
And depending on what, what sort of a memory ship table right down to the, you know, the

1988
02:09:23,520 --> 02:09:27,680
bare bones, it's still, they'll go, there's got to be a chunk of you in it.

1989
02:09:27,680 --> 02:09:35,400
You mean, so to be that character and, but again, if it's, if it's, if it's absurdist

1990
02:09:35,400 --> 02:09:41,600
or you're just doing it for, I mean, like say I could play any character, you mean I

1991
02:09:41,600 --> 02:09:44,480
could, but a big chunk of me will still be in that character.

1992
02:09:44,480 --> 02:09:47,960
You mean it'll happen, but it's just making it and it's weird.

1993
02:09:47,960 --> 02:09:48,960
It's not about acting.

1994
02:09:48,960 --> 02:09:54,600
It's about believability and it's about, and the believability comes from real human emotions.

1995
02:09:54,600 --> 02:09:55,600
You know what I mean?

1996
02:09:55,600 --> 02:10:01,160
So whether that be love, hate, everything, look, they've all got to be real.

1997
02:10:01,160 --> 02:10:06,120
And if you act it, it's a classic, another good saying I heard from a good American Marine

1998
02:10:06,120 --> 02:10:10,120
of mine is you stand out like a turd in a glass of milk.

1999
02:10:10,120 --> 02:10:14,280
You mean, so then you're like, ah, yes, I, I guess I see.

2000
02:10:14,280 --> 02:10:15,280
Ooh, ooh.

2001
02:10:15,280 --> 02:10:16,640
You mean, so it's a bit like that.

2002
02:10:16,640 --> 02:10:19,120
If you, if you're acting, you're going to add sticks out a bit.

2003
02:10:19,120 --> 02:10:26,160
You mean, so, so that all these terms I learned from, from my training that comes in handy,

2004
02:10:26,160 --> 02:10:31,960
it is, it's about being and I learned that in acting school.

2005
02:10:31,960 --> 02:10:38,080
So I did, I learned loads of things, but the meat of everything and I say, and I, I empathize

2006
02:10:38,080 --> 02:10:45,640
with young actors, you know, across the board is because I've got a life full of experience

2007
02:10:45,640 --> 02:10:51,800
and that experience leans, you know, and that's across the whole spectrum of life, not only

2008
02:10:51,800 --> 02:10:57,120
on operations, but, but living and growing up and that passage of right that every human

2009
02:10:57,120 --> 02:10:58,720
being should have.

2010
02:10:58,720 --> 02:11:00,680
And luckily I have had it.

2011
02:11:00,680 --> 02:11:04,800
That's allowed me to tap into memories and, and experiences, which gives credibility.

2012
02:11:04,800 --> 02:11:09,520
If you're a young actor, you still have that, you still have your life experience, but I'm

2013
02:11:09,520 --> 02:11:15,800
just saying you've as, as years go on, it opens up and doors and the wealth comes there,

2014
02:11:15,800 --> 02:11:16,800
I think.

2015
02:11:16,800 --> 02:11:20,600
So that's the only, don't as an actor, don't worry about it.

2016
02:11:20,600 --> 02:11:21,600
You know what I mean?

2017
02:11:21,600 --> 02:11:22,600
It's just, it'll happen.

2018
02:11:22,600 --> 02:11:23,720
And I think that's it.

2019
02:11:23,720 --> 02:11:27,520
If you don't, if you don't worry about it, it becomes more natural, which again, it's

2020
02:11:27,520 --> 02:11:31,720
a bit of an oxymoron because if you're going for an audition, I mean, people do generally

2021
02:11:31,720 --> 02:11:34,880
get nervous, but I, I, but I can't get nervous.

2022
02:11:34,880 --> 02:11:38,080
And I've worked on stage with established actors who are, they're quite nervous every

2023
02:11:38,080 --> 02:11:42,240
time they go on stage and I'm going, how can you be nervous?

2024
02:11:42,240 --> 02:11:43,240
You know what I mean?

2025
02:11:43,240 --> 02:11:46,080
I'm like, oh, and then again, I've got my friends inside my head.

2026
02:11:46,080 --> 02:11:51,320
So they're looking at me going, so you've got to stand at a piece of wood and talk and

2027
02:11:51,320 --> 02:11:52,320
you're nervous.

2028
02:11:52,320 --> 02:11:57,640
And I'm like, no, and I have to go, that sort of quills my, any apprehension I've got because

2029
02:11:57,640 --> 02:12:00,040
I can just go, no, I'm not a cheat.

2030
02:12:00,040 --> 02:12:05,120
Cause I can have somebody shooting at me from 30 foot away and full auto glass, that I can

2031
02:12:05,120 --> 02:12:08,400
really be worried about, but not if I just have to stand there and talk.

2032
02:12:08,400 --> 02:12:11,480
If that's the case, then I'm a bit of a lost cause right now.

2033
02:12:11,480 --> 02:12:16,200
And then, but also I've got to look those, those might, might the souls of my mates in

2034
02:12:16,200 --> 02:12:17,200
the eyes and going, I'm not a cheat.

2035
02:12:17,200 --> 02:12:18,200
I'm not cheat.

2036
02:12:18,200 --> 02:12:19,200
Honestly, I'm, I'm a good lad.

2037
02:12:19,200 --> 02:12:25,320
I am a good lad, but it's, so that apprehension, you just got to go ditch it, ditch it.

2038
02:12:25,320 --> 02:12:27,400
There's no, there's no, no time for it.

2039
02:12:27,400 --> 02:12:33,760
And I think if you, if you can do that, that will help you massively.

2040
02:12:33,760 --> 02:12:39,080
It was physicality that helped me when I started doing the stunts and I was very successful

2041
02:12:39,080 --> 02:12:41,800
in the stunt world and the live show side.

2042
02:12:41,800 --> 02:12:42,800
That was it.

2043
02:12:42,800 --> 02:12:45,520
You know, if I didn't have to stand there and just say, well, if I could use my, my

2044
02:12:45,520 --> 02:12:48,120
physicality, then the other stuff came.

2045
02:12:48,120 --> 02:12:50,360
So I'll give myself some grace on that.

2046
02:12:50,360 --> 02:12:51,360
But you know, just standing there.

2047
02:12:51,360 --> 02:12:54,880
No, no, but James, but honestly, the physicality of an actor, that's it.

2048
02:12:54,880 --> 02:12:56,220
You see what that does.

2049
02:12:56,220 --> 02:13:01,200
You must admit the, the confidence you get with physicality is brilliant, is wonderful.

2050
02:13:01,200 --> 02:13:06,800
And that's, that's something I think is very much, which is not as strong as what it used

2051
02:13:06,800 --> 02:13:07,800
to be in society.

2052
02:13:07,800 --> 02:13:12,900
So now that ability to understand the limits, how your body can, what it can do.

2053
02:13:12,900 --> 02:13:16,040
And you must admit some of the young people, some of the young people, like in all different

2054
02:13:16,040 --> 02:13:21,520
forms, whether it be sports, climbing, gymnastics, ballet, and all that, the extremes that they've

2055
02:13:21,520 --> 02:13:26,160
got now and the performance, the perfection they've got is mind blowing and stunts as

2056
02:13:26,160 --> 02:13:27,160
well.

2057
02:13:27,160 --> 02:13:30,600
You mean all that, that physicality is just, you may not, you could sit and watch them

2058
02:13:30,600 --> 02:13:33,920
all day that, you know, harder weight ratio and everything.

2059
02:13:33,920 --> 02:13:36,880
I just, you know, it blows your mind, doesn't it?

2060
02:13:36,880 --> 02:13:41,040
I mean, even think when we grew up as well, the arm and triathlon, that was like, you

2061
02:13:41,040 --> 02:13:43,640
know, the, you know, the marathon de sable.

2062
02:13:43,640 --> 02:13:48,000
It was now that people do it all the time and you just go on, people are, there are

2063
02:13:48,000 --> 02:13:52,600
people who understand it, but again, that the spectrum's changing on it.

2064
02:13:52,600 --> 02:13:54,120
It used to be, you know what I mean?

2065
02:13:54,120 --> 02:13:57,920
Now you're like, there's some people that can do marathon de sable, but there's some

2066
02:13:57,920 --> 02:14:00,760
people that can't get over an armchair, you know what I mean?

2067
02:14:00,760 --> 02:14:01,840
And that's, you know what I mean?

2068
02:14:01,840 --> 02:14:06,640
That void is, and it was, you must admit from the olden days, it wasn't, it was a bit more

2069
02:14:06,640 --> 02:14:08,960
central, but now it's extremes, isn't it?

2070
02:14:08,960 --> 02:14:09,960
A hundred percent.

2071
02:14:09,960 --> 02:14:13,160
I even have, have that people talking about military recruitment.

2072
02:14:13,160 --> 02:14:17,520
You know, they say, you know, we've got a, same with the fire service, we've got a way

2073
02:14:17,520 --> 02:14:22,280
smaller pool because, you know, you look at a lot, a lot, and I'm not talking about all,

2074
02:14:22,280 --> 02:14:27,000
a lot of kids, you know, I mean, there's, there's a linear 45 degree line on childhood

2075
02:14:27,000 --> 02:14:32,580
obesity, especially in America, but I see even when I go home and conversely though,

2076
02:14:32,580 --> 02:14:35,800
our fit recruits are really fit.

2077
02:14:35,800 --> 02:14:39,120
So the question is, how do we push that line back?

2078
02:14:39,120 --> 02:14:43,720
We've got these young phenoms now that are about to be fire, fire, as police officers,

2079
02:14:43,720 --> 02:14:48,280
Marines, how can we start recapturing some of these kids that are getting pulled into

2080
02:14:48,280 --> 02:14:53,640
video games and donuts and bringing them back into this super inspirational area?

2081
02:14:53,640 --> 02:14:57,440
And it's cultural and it's food and it's all these things, but we need, you know, we're

2082
02:14:57,440 --> 02:14:59,920
talking about earlier about media and leadership.

2083
02:14:59,920 --> 02:15:05,880
I just was talking, listening to an Air Force scientist who's been in the human performance

2084
02:15:05,880 --> 02:15:06,880
side his whole career.

2085
02:15:06,880 --> 02:15:11,680
He's one of the gurus that works with DARPA and all these high, high performing agencies.

2086
02:15:11,680 --> 02:15:14,720
And it's, you know, this is again, a national crisis.

2087
02:15:14,720 --> 02:15:19,600
So how can we get the focus away from these kind of clickbait news stories and back to

2088
02:15:19,600 --> 02:15:24,320
what's on our streets and in our schools and get these young people healthy firstly, so

2089
02:15:24,320 --> 02:15:30,640
they have a beautiful long lifespan, but secondly, that they become able to be of service in

2090
02:15:30,640 --> 02:15:32,160
whatever capacity they choose.

2091
02:15:32,160 --> 02:15:38,120
But again, like everything you said there is complete bang on, but it is that it's education

2092
02:15:38,120 --> 02:15:39,640
and ownership, isn't it?

2093
02:15:39,640 --> 02:15:40,640
It's ownership.

2094
02:15:40,640 --> 02:15:44,560
When you own it yourself, you know, you know the dynamics of your own body now, but that's

2095
02:15:44,560 --> 02:15:46,960
education, but it's empowerment.

2096
02:15:46,960 --> 02:15:51,000
You've got to empower kids or young people to get that.

2097
02:15:51,000 --> 02:15:54,440
So once they have that knowledge, they know and then it's choices.

2098
02:15:54,440 --> 02:16:00,760
But I'd also say the whole industry-wise and corporation-wise, they need to understand

2099
02:16:00,760 --> 02:16:06,440
what sugars do, what this, what we're doing, why we create, everything's about maximum

2100
02:16:06,440 --> 02:16:07,840
profit.

2101
02:16:07,840 --> 02:16:08,840
And that's it.

2102
02:16:08,840 --> 02:16:10,960
We've got to flip where the profit is made.

2103
02:16:10,960 --> 02:16:14,200
Profit's got to be made in a more, in the positive way and rather than the negative

2104
02:16:14,200 --> 02:16:15,200
way.

2105
02:16:15,200 --> 02:16:16,200
You know what I mean?

2106
02:16:16,200 --> 02:16:17,200
And that's including fuel and everything else.

2107
02:16:17,200 --> 02:16:23,560
The profit margins, and this is hard, it's the, I know it's the hunger for certain things,

2108
02:16:23,560 --> 02:16:28,640
you know, as in fuel and things like that, but I'm just, it's, if we can get the positives,

2109
02:16:28,640 --> 02:16:35,160
are they rewarded as in the profit things in the positive world, you know what I mean,

2110
02:16:35,160 --> 02:16:38,400
through industry, that's, I think that's the big question.

2111
02:16:38,400 --> 02:16:39,400
We can do that.

2112
02:16:39,400 --> 02:16:44,960
That, that, that, because the system and the world is set up for towards positivity, then

2113
02:16:44,960 --> 02:16:46,920
that would go down into our kids.

2114
02:16:46,920 --> 02:16:51,480
But at the minute it isn't, it's still fixed firmly the other way, but gratuitous, materialistic

2115
02:16:51,480 --> 02:16:52,880
and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

2116
02:16:52,880 --> 02:16:53,880
You know what I mean?

2117
02:16:53,880 --> 02:16:54,880
100%.

2118
02:16:54,880 --> 02:16:56,800
Yeah, absolutely.

2119
02:16:56,800 --> 02:17:00,680
You talked about tapping into the souls of your fallen brothers.

2120
02:17:00,680 --> 02:17:07,000
I had a hypnotherapist on Courtney Starkey, amazing conversation.

2121
02:17:07,000 --> 02:17:11,680
And she was saying that the word genius actually means, I forget what they said, like, you

2122
02:17:11,680 --> 02:17:15,080
know, spirit friends or something like that.

2123
02:17:15,080 --> 02:17:18,880
And I'm writing my second book, which is a fiction this time, and it's a multi-generational

2124
02:17:18,880 --> 02:17:19,880
trauma story.

2125
02:17:19,880 --> 02:17:20,880
Very, very complex.

2126
02:17:20,880 --> 02:17:24,880
I'm a complete ding dong for choosing that to be my first one, but that's the one that's

2127
02:17:24,880 --> 02:17:26,400
burning inside me.

2128
02:17:26,400 --> 02:17:30,760
But and again, I'm making it to make it into a show or a film because just like you, I'm

2129
02:17:30,760 --> 02:17:32,240
not going to be the actor.

2130
02:17:32,240 --> 02:17:36,840
Hopefully, you know, when this happens, putting it out there, it'd be cool to do a little

2131
02:17:36,840 --> 02:17:39,520
cameo, even more so maybe as a stunt man, that'd be kind of cool.

2132
02:17:39,520 --> 02:17:45,000
But anyway, but she was talking about tapping into your spirit friends, your spirit out

2133
02:17:45,000 --> 02:17:46,000
animals.

2134
02:17:46,000 --> 02:17:51,640
And it seems to me that, you know, a lot of the men that you lost have become your genius.

2135
02:17:51,640 --> 02:17:56,800
So have you found an element of catharsis being able to storytell, especially some of

2136
02:17:56,800 --> 02:18:02,720
the more powerful stories that you've told in the veteran community, you know, as acting

2137
02:18:02,720 --> 02:18:05,720
being your outlet now?

2138
02:18:05,720 --> 02:18:13,660
Yeah, I do think catharsis is a good word for it because I think.

2139
02:18:13,660 --> 02:18:15,120
But it's the choice thing, it's a choice.

2140
02:18:15,120 --> 02:18:17,560
Remember, I said, I'm going to be a Royal Marines Commando.

2141
02:18:17,560 --> 02:18:22,760
Didn't fit the mold at the time, but I was going to do it when I sort of knew that I

2142
02:18:22,760 --> 02:18:25,680
needed to do something creative and good on that path.

2143
02:18:25,680 --> 02:18:29,600
And I went and acting was it, you know, it was like a little light bulb when we're going

2144
02:18:29,600 --> 02:18:34,040
what that is what I have to do.

2145
02:18:34,040 --> 02:18:39,720
I'm in a position now where I don't mean much in life as in, you know, I mean, I don't,

2146
02:18:39,720 --> 02:18:43,680
I don't need much in life.

2147
02:18:43,680 --> 02:18:45,760
I've never really done a single thing.

2148
02:18:45,760 --> 02:18:51,160
Luckily, I'm stable and happy now, but I've never done a single thing in my life for money.

2149
02:18:51,160 --> 02:18:57,920
I've done it purely for, you know, what I wanted to do for the adventure for the, you

2150
02:18:57,920 --> 02:18:58,920
know what I mean?

2151
02:18:58,920 --> 02:19:02,240
The mere fact that you got paid was a massive, well, it is a bonus.

2152
02:19:02,240 --> 02:19:03,800
That means you can do things you love.

2153
02:19:03,800 --> 02:19:05,760
And I loved being a Royal Marines Commando.

2154
02:19:05,760 --> 02:19:10,960
So now I get paid for being a storyteller.

2155
02:19:10,960 --> 02:19:21,440
And again, it's cathartic in a way because it's, it's just bringing me closer after

2156
02:19:21,440 --> 02:19:28,400
I've got the resistance and I've gotten this brought me more to my emotional core of who

2157
02:19:28,400 --> 02:19:30,280
I am.

2158
02:19:30,280 --> 02:19:36,080
And that will, that is very freeing.

2159
02:19:36,080 --> 02:19:41,080
That is, that's like the thing when you, you know, I mean, when you're happy with it and

2160
02:19:41,080 --> 02:19:45,280
even it now makes me as well, I mean, I don't know, it might be an age thing, but now when

2161
02:19:45,280 --> 02:19:50,040
I watch things or I read books and that there, and there's something that I watched something

2162
02:19:50,040 --> 02:19:53,200
today actually, I was in a meeting today when it was with the Royal Marines Charity and

2163
02:19:53,200 --> 02:19:58,560
there was a couple of videos they showed, which is done off of veterans who, who've

2164
02:19:58,560 --> 02:20:01,440
had some hard times, but they've been supported by the charity.

2165
02:20:01,440 --> 02:20:03,440
And I just had that massive emotional moment.

2166
02:20:03,440 --> 02:20:08,560
And I don't know whether it's my experiences, not like I said, after operations and that,

2167
02:20:08,560 --> 02:20:15,640
but for me it's, it's that I like being able to go there now and feel those emotions and

2168
02:20:15,640 --> 02:20:20,800
feel those tears well up and go, you know, and feel one with, with those people, whether

2169
02:20:20,800 --> 02:20:26,760
it be through love or, you know, through empathy or sympathy or trying to reach out and help.

2170
02:20:26,760 --> 02:20:30,600
I really, really, really enjoy that.

2171
02:20:30,600 --> 02:20:32,560
And acting has helped me do it.

2172
02:20:32,560 --> 02:20:33,560
Yeah.

2173
02:20:33,560 --> 02:20:34,560
Yeah.

2174
02:20:34,560 --> 02:20:37,800
No, that's, that's a beautiful, I can see that, you know, I think as you talked about

2175
02:20:37,800 --> 02:20:41,880
walling up our emotions and this is, this is an analogy I've used a lot recently, the

2176
02:20:41,880 --> 02:20:46,360
yin and the yang, you know, you have the hard is the white.

2177
02:20:46,360 --> 02:20:50,300
So we go in, you know, I mean, you obviously we've heard, you know, you've got the compassion

2178
02:20:50,300 --> 02:20:52,080
that you took through your whole service.

2179
02:20:52,080 --> 02:20:58,760
This seeing the commonalities in fellow humans, but when you're in the middle of a firefight,

2180
02:20:58,760 --> 02:21:01,560
that's no time for unicorns and kittens and rainbows.

2181
02:21:01,560 --> 02:21:02,560
You know what I mean?

2182
02:21:02,560 --> 02:21:03,560
You got to do what you got to do.

2183
02:21:03,560 --> 02:21:08,040
If I go into a burning building or cut someone out of a car, but then we have to process

2184
02:21:08,040 --> 02:21:09,720
that, which is the soft side.

2185
02:21:09,720 --> 02:21:15,320
And I think the danger of a lot of us in uniform is we'd become this solid white circle.

2186
02:21:15,320 --> 02:21:19,920
We kind of believe in the John Wayne Schwarzenegger bullshit, that that's what a man is.

2187
02:21:19,920 --> 02:21:24,560
And we forget that it was kindness and compassion that sent us into service in the first place.

2188
02:21:24,560 --> 02:21:27,200
And we have to show ourselves that kindness and compassion.

2189
02:21:27,200 --> 02:21:33,520
I found that writing and obviously you found that the acting has allowed us to, to pull

2190
02:21:33,520 --> 02:21:35,040
some of those bricks down.

2191
02:21:35,040 --> 02:21:38,080
Doesn't mean that, you know, the foundation is there and that's our strength and that

2192
02:21:38,080 --> 02:21:39,600
is resilience process.

2193
02:21:39,600 --> 02:21:46,320
Trauma is resilience, but you do become stoic in the wrong way sometimes.

2194
02:21:46,320 --> 02:21:51,280
And I found that through, through writing, through, you know, even these conversations,

2195
02:21:51,280 --> 02:21:54,800
I'm able to really tap into those emotions now and all well up, you know, especially,

2196
02:21:54,800 --> 02:21:59,200
oh, God forbid it's, it's a dad or a single dad with a kid, which is what I had most of

2197
02:21:59,200 --> 02:22:00,200
my life.

2198
02:22:00,200 --> 02:22:02,600
I'm in fucking tears, you know, but that's beautiful.

2199
02:22:02,600 --> 02:22:03,600
It's a purge.

2200
02:22:03,600 --> 02:22:05,560
You're not, there's no shame about it.

2201
02:22:05,560 --> 02:22:07,200
It's like, I can, I can feel.

2202
02:22:07,200 --> 02:22:08,200
It's a cleansing.

2203
02:22:08,200 --> 02:22:09,200
It's cleansing your soul, isn't it?

2204
02:22:09,200 --> 02:22:10,200
Yeah.

2205
02:22:10,200 --> 02:22:13,360
It's it, you know, but, but again, and you don't want to, I don't see it as a selfie

2206
02:22:13,360 --> 02:22:14,360
thing.

2207
02:22:14,360 --> 02:22:17,320
It's a photo with Judith of humanity.

2208
02:22:17,320 --> 02:22:26,960
But I, you know, when you said that, but the, what I did find and I is being in, I mean,

2209
02:22:26,960 --> 02:22:32,320
and you must have noticed as a firefighter as well, but being in, being in contact and

2210
02:22:32,320 --> 02:22:39,880
the buzz and the electricity buzzing through you and the, I've never felt anything.

2211
02:22:39,880 --> 02:22:46,480
I mean, that, that to me can be and has been, and I've seen it with my friends, addictive

2212
02:22:46,480 --> 02:22:51,520
and needed and like that was, and that's one of the big struggles I see in some of the,

2213
02:22:51,520 --> 02:22:56,520
you know, some of my friends is coming back from that because that there's never going

2214
02:22:56,520 --> 02:23:00,800
to be anything as euphoric as that ever human ever.

2215
02:23:00,800 --> 02:23:06,800
And they, you know, you've got to keep a weary eye on them because they're going to have

2216
02:23:06,800 --> 02:23:07,800
to come back from that.

2217
02:23:07,800 --> 02:23:11,960
You cannot live life like that.

2218
02:23:11,960 --> 02:23:13,560
You know what I mean?

2219
02:23:13,560 --> 02:23:15,440
And be as lucky all the time.

2220
02:23:15,440 --> 02:23:20,280
Cause no matter what, I know we, we all think we're indestructible, but I realize now that's

2221
02:23:20,280 --> 02:23:24,040
a complete nonsense, absolute nonsense.

2222
02:23:24,040 --> 02:23:29,360
You know, but I definitely see that, you know, that it's not a John Wayne thing.

2223
02:23:29,360 --> 02:23:34,400
Cause I still think you need, especially when you're a leader and you're in charge of people

2224
02:23:34,400 --> 02:23:40,660
like a section troop company, a company in theater, whatever else, you have to have,

2225
02:23:40,660 --> 02:23:46,640
you are a human being completely, but you have to be, you know, that robust figure that

2226
02:23:46,640 --> 02:23:52,080
people you're completely approachable, but people think you've got a bit of it.

2227
02:23:52,080 --> 02:23:57,480
And this again, it's not superficial because you've got that training condition.

2228
02:23:57,480 --> 02:24:01,640
Mine, it brings you to that level, but people think you're just that little level tougher

2229
02:24:01,640 --> 02:24:06,920
to, you know, I mean, to lead and, you know, I mean, so when you turn around and before

2230
02:24:06,920 --> 02:24:12,000
you go out the gate and you know that you're going to be in contact in five minutes, but

2231
02:24:12,000 --> 02:24:15,240
you could turn around and you look at your guys and you just got the little, and they

2232
02:24:15,240 --> 02:24:17,600
look in your eyes and they look about 10 years old again.

2233
02:24:17,600 --> 02:24:19,640
They're just looking at you and they're going, yeah, you'll be all right.

2234
02:24:19,640 --> 02:24:20,640
Don't worry.

2235
02:24:20,640 --> 02:24:24,680
But in your head you're going, no, I might be dead as well, mightn't I?

2236
02:24:24,680 --> 02:24:26,540
But you don't, cause that's it.

2237
02:24:26,540 --> 02:24:27,880
Are you acting or are you playing a game?

2238
02:24:27,880 --> 02:24:32,840
But you've got to be that, that's your role as a leader is to inspire them and make sure

2239
02:24:32,840 --> 02:24:34,160
they have that.

2240
02:24:34,160 --> 02:24:40,160
And in that moment in time, you not having that could be a failure.

2241
02:24:40,160 --> 02:24:41,160
You know what I mean?

2242
02:24:41,160 --> 02:24:42,480
And you as a leader, you know what I mean?

2243
02:24:42,480 --> 02:24:46,200
So there's, you've got to be that, but they've always got to, you are that, you're that person

2244
02:24:46,200 --> 02:24:48,800
who's always going to be there to be.

2245
02:24:48,800 --> 02:24:54,840
And it's a classic, but one of my friends, when I was a corporal, became a mountain leader.

2246
02:24:54,840 --> 02:25:00,560
And my first, he was a friend of mine anyway, he was a major.

2247
02:25:00,560 --> 02:25:05,800
He just said like, when you're in charge of people, you treat them like your children,

2248
02:25:05,800 --> 02:25:08,200
you know, you've got cages, you're no problem.

2249
02:25:08,200 --> 02:25:10,120
I said, yeah, it'd be fine.

2250
02:25:10,120 --> 02:25:15,320
So if they do well, you give them a good job of, you give them a, you know, you congratulate

2251
02:25:15,320 --> 02:25:18,640
them, give them a chuck up and say like, you know, and give them, give them a good direction

2252
02:25:18,640 --> 02:25:21,360
out there, give them a big thing out there and reward them.

2253
02:25:21,360 --> 02:25:23,640
Just give them like, you know, the love that they deserve out there.

2254
02:25:23,640 --> 02:25:27,080
And when they, when they don't and they mess up or they're, you know, I mean, and they

2255
02:25:27,080 --> 02:25:32,200
completely mess up, then you put them on the street narrow, different ways of doing that,

2256
02:25:32,200 --> 02:25:34,680
but you put them on the street now, you still love them.

2257
02:25:34,680 --> 02:25:40,080
It's still positive, but it's your duty to put them back on to what their moral compass

2258
02:25:40,080 --> 02:25:41,080
is right.

2259
02:25:41,080 --> 02:25:42,080
They still own it.

2260
02:25:42,080 --> 02:25:45,720
They still responsible, but they know that the moral compass, if you go that way, you're

2261
02:25:45,720 --> 02:25:46,960
going to slip off the slope.

2262
02:25:46,960 --> 02:25:48,400
You're not going to, you know, you've got to do that.

2263
02:25:48,400 --> 02:25:53,560
So you treat, I mean, I've always in command or whatever else, I've always treated my people

2264
02:25:53,560 --> 02:25:54,840
same as my kids.

2265
02:25:54,840 --> 02:25:57,400
When they're good as theirs, their mission command is yours.

2266
02:25:57,400 --> 02:26:01,080
Your adventures, not my adventures, your adventure, you know, and that's it.

2267
02:26:01,080 --> 02:26:02,080
They run with it.

2268
02:26:02,080 --> 02:26:07,520
But when, when they don't, you're, I'm duty bound to go, you come here, sit down.

2269
02:26:07,520 --> 02:26:11,080
And even like, you know, as a Sergeant Major, I've given them some of the best bollock ins

2270
02:26:11,080 --> 02:26:12,080
in my life.

2271
02:26:12,080 --> 02:26:13,080
Absolutely.

2272
02:26:13,080 --> 02:26:17,480
You know, performances that, you know, we're talking like, you know, Lawrence Olivier level,

2273
02:26:17,480 --> 02:26:22,880
you know, get them in, you know, shut the fuck door, get them, bah, bah, bah, bah, and

2274
02:26:22,880 --> 02:26:23,880
another thing.

2275
02:26:23,880 --> 02:26:24,880
You get, right, right, right.

2276
02:26:24,880 --> 02:26:25,880
Like get the fuck out of my office.

2277
02:26:25,880 --> 02:26:26,880
You know what I mean?

2278
02:26:26,880 --> 02:26:29,960
I'd say walk out and you're going, yeah, I was quite happy with that one.

2279
02:26:29,960 --> 02:26:33,880
I mean, it'll resonate down the corridor in the lines and wherever else, and I think

2280
02:26:33,880 --> 02:26:36,000
of it done with the Sergeant Major.

2281
02:26:36,000 --> 02:26:39,080
He's in a mega barb mood and going on point.

2282
02:26:39,080 --> 02:26:40,080
And that's it.

2283
02:26:40,080 --> 02:26:43,360
Because, because at the end of the day, what he's done, and if you've got a man with a

2284
02:26:43,360 --> 02:26:47,840
worthwhile experience in, in my core, you've been there and done it.

2285
02:26:47,840 --> 02:26:51,480
You know, exactly before he does something, you, you know what he's doing.

2286
02:26:51,480 --> 02:26:53,400
He's only a clever Marine if he doesn't know what you've been doing.

2287
02:26:53,400 --> 02:26:54,400
You know what I mean?

2288
02:26:54,400 --> 02:26:55,400
That's it.

2289
02:26:55,400 --> 02:26:56,400
So it's that, you know what I mean?

2290
02:26:56,400 --> 02:26:59,760
So you know, so it's not, you're not in any way, there's no malice or hatred, but if I

2291
02:26:59,760 --> 02:27:04,480
don't kick him up the ass and get him on the straight and narrow, that will affect him.

2292
02:27:04,480 --> 02:27:09,640
If I do do it, that means he'll make sure that when he's a boss or he's in charge, that

2293
02:27:09,640 --> 02:27:13,680
isn't, they keep, they keep, you know, this is what's right, this is what's wrong.

2294
02:27:13,680 --> 02:27:15,560
You being on time, you know, just different things.

2295
02:27:15,560 --> 02:27:17,560
You just got to keep him on the straight and narrow.

2296
02:27:17,560 --> 02:27:20,720
As a Royal Marine Sergeant Major, it's a bit different than being a dad.

2297
02:27:20,720 --> 02:27:21,720
You know what I mean?

2298
02:27:21,720 --> 02:27:24,720
So believe me, I didn't do that to my kids.

2299
02:27:24,720 --> 02:27:25,720
Even though, you know what I mean?

2300
02:27:25,720 --> 02:27:26,720
No, no, I didn't.

2301
02:27:26,720 --> 02:27:30,040
Well, I want to be mindful of your time.

2302
02:27:30,040 --> 02:27:33,240
We've been talking almost two and a half hours, but I want to make sure that we do kind of

2303
02:27:33,240 --> 02:27:35,000
explore Sunray a little bit more.

2304
02:27:35,000 --> 02:27:39,040
So talk to me about who was behind the production, where you are at the moment, and then when

2305
02:27:39,040 --> 02:27:40,760
people can expect it.

2306
02:27:40,760 --> 02:27:41,760
Right.

2307
02:27:41,760 --> 02:27:45,920
Sunray is going to be a feature length film.

2308
02:27:45,920 --> 02:27:53,040
It's based around a character called Andy, who is the Sunray.

2309
02:27:53,040 --> 02:28:00,760
And he's the, was a team commander for a, an operations team, a reconnaissance team

2310
02:28:00,760 --> 02:28:03,200
in Iraq and Afghanistan.

2311
02:28:03,200 --> 02:28:07,440
Funny old thing in the Royal Marines.

2312
02:28:07,440 --> 02:28:08,860
But times moved on.

2313
02:28:08,860 --> 02:28:13,200
He's now settling in the city street and he's like one of our friends is he's struggling

2314
02:28:13,200 --> 02:28:19,800
with that fusion and coming off that, that high and that ride and events that happened

2315
02:28:19,800 --> 02:28:20,800
on operations.

2316
02:28:20,800 --> 02:28:24,120
He's lost his wife.

2317
02:28:24,120 --> 02:28:28,720
He's disaffected with his daughter, but he really wants to try and make amends for that.

2318
02:28:28,720 --> 02:28:34,280
And his daughter is involved with a young guy who he's not met yet and he's not aware

2319
02:28:34,280 --> 02:28:40,440
of, but the daughter goes out.

2320
02:28:40,440 --> 02:28:43,160
The guy gets, Oh no, I'm telling the story.

2321
02:28:43,160 --> 02:28:44,160
I can't do that.

2322
02:28:44,160 --> 02:28:45,160
Right.

2323
02:28:45,160 --> 02:28:46,160
Stop there.

2324
02:28:46,160 --> 02:28:47,160
No spoilers.

2325
02:28:47,160 --> 02:28:48,160
Right.

2326
02:28:48,160 --> 02:28:50,120
So basically it just follows a journey as he does.

2327
02:28:50,120 --> 02:28:55,840
Things don't go his way, but he's a, he's a man of many talents and he's got a, you

2328
02:28:55,840 --> 02:29:02,920
know, a gang of very capable individuals, but it's a, although it's an action thriller,

2329
02:29:02,920 --> 02:29:09,120
it's firmly based on mental health and also what's real and what's unreal.

2330
02:29:09,120 --> 02:29:14,240
You know, that, you know, that, that storytelling bit of what is and what isn't.

2331
02:29:14,240 --> 02:29:18,680
And I think that's important because that is so much part of storytelling.

2332
02:29:18,680 --> 02:29:24,000
It was stimulated by a guy called Sammy Sealy, who was a former Royal Marine, became a naval

2333
02:29:24,000 --> 02:29:28,200
photographer and now he's a freelance movie maker.

2334
02:29:28,200 --> 02:29:34,160
And his wing men came on board with Sir Dan Shepard and James Clark, who are both former

2335
02:29:34,160 --> 02:29:40,760
Royal Marines here in our naval movie makers or photographers and movie makers.

2336
02:29:40,760 --> 02:29:46,960
And I got pulled in because Sammy, well, Dan was in training with my son and Sammy was

2337
02:29:46,960 --> 02:29:50,520
going to coach my son and they're going, Oh, we know you're, you're an actor now.

2338
02:29:50,520 --> 02:29:52,800
We've just got the same thing that you're involved in.

2339
02:29:52,800 --> 02:29:57,440
So I got pulled in with a few other friends of mine who are, who are now actors as well.

2340
02:29:57,440 --> 02:30:02,640
So the main, because the three filmmakers initially are three former Royal Marines, the

2341
02:30:02,640 --> 02:30:07,120
four men in the, in the team as such are actors who are former Royal Marines commanders.

2342
02:30:07,120 --> 02:30:10,800
So that's the gang that stimulated done it.

2343
02:30:10,800 --> 02:30:16,800
We got together down in Portsmouth in a, in the South of England and threw together a

2344
02:30:16,800 --> 02:30:20,200
small trailer, which is the one you can see on YouTube.

2345
02:30:20,200 --> 02:30:22,740
So we filmed that in about 24 hours.

2346
02:30:22,740 --> 02:30:24,440
So have a look at it.

2347
02:30:24,440 --> 02:30:28,600
And that was just the old, if you weren't on camera, you were running with a, you know,

2348
02:30:28,600 --> 02:30:29,880
the boom mic.

2349
02:30:29,880 --> 02:30:31,840
If you weren't, you know, you're making a tea.

2350
02:30:31,840 --> 02:30:36,240
So everyone was concurrent activity and we just threw together, made this to reach out

2351
02:30:36,240 --> 02:30:38,640
for crowdfunder as filmmakers.

2352
02:30:38,640 --> 02:30:42,880
Obviously Dan, James and Sammy are incredible.

2353
02:30:42,880 --> 02:30:46,920
The natural, they've got a very, very natural talent.

2354
02:30:46,920 --> 02:30:53,520
And when you meet, when you meet good cinematographers, they, they, they watch the, they watch the

2355
02:30:53,520 --> 02:30:54,520
angle of the light.

2356
02:30:54,520 --> 02:30:55,880
They watch when things bounce off.

2357
02:30:55,880 --> 02:31:00,200
They understand how to manipulate digital imagery, especially nowadays it's open to

2358
02:31:00,200 --> 02:31:02,120
the whole world for movie makers.

2359
02:31:02,120 --> 02:31:07,360
I'd say for, for the poor man's movie making as well for indie movie making, it's incredible.

2360
02:31:07,360 --> 02:31:08,880
And these guys, they own it.

2361
02:31:08,880 --> 02:31:10,420
They've got, they've got the skill.

2362
02:31:10,420 --> 02:31:17,160
So we got from crowdfunder from our little video you can see on YouTube, we got a, about

2363
02:31:17,160 --> 02:31:20,440
120 K I think with a couple of investors as well.

2364
02:31:20,440 --> 02:31:31,440
So 120,000 pounds and we were going to make a three episode, a online series as, as like

2365
02:31:31,440 --> 02:31:34,040
a pilot for possibly something bigger.

2366
02:31:34,040 --> 02:31:42,680
Luckily we had some very accomplished editors, including the editor from Peaky Blinders,

2367
02:31:42,680 --> 02:31:53,120
The Crown and Royal, The Crown and Sherlock and he had a look at it and said, you need

2368
02:31:53,120 --> 02:31:54,120
this to be a feature film.

2369
02:31:54,120 --> 02:31:55,120
You need this to be a movie.

2370
02:31:55,120 --> 02:32:01,240
So the guys have re-edited and it's come out as a, as a movie.

2371
02:32:01,240 --> 02:32:06,600
It went to the American film market at the start of November this year.

2372
02:32:06,600 --> 02:32:08,280
There was interest.

2373
02:32:08,280 --> 02:32:14,560
It has been picked up in a couple of countries, I think I believe, but still to be confirmed.

2374
02:32:14,560 --> 02:32:19,200
And it's now with a distribution company in London and they're looking to get it out in

2375
02:32:19,200 --> 02:32:20,200
the new year.

2376
02:32:20,200 --> 02:32:24,320
I mean, it's been a while coming, but you think about for a bunch of, bunch of guys,

2377
02:32:24,320 --> 02:32:29,200
I mean, we've both done a lot of professional people and actors, you know, incredibly talented

2378
02:32:29,200 --> 02:32:30,200
as well.

2379
02:32:30,200 --> 02:32:31,760
So that's what that money's paid for.

2380
02:32:31,760 --> 02:32:37,920
And I think we've, I haven't seen the full film yet, but I've seen some of the, the drafted

2381
02:32:37,920 --> 02:32:41,720
trailers that the guys have created and I'm impressed with it.

2382
02:32:41,720 --> 02:32:42,720
I'm impressed with the work.

2383
02:32:42,720 --> 02:32:48,520
You know, they are very talented lads and I hope my acting and the storytelling comes

2384
02:32:48,520 --> 02:32:51,760
across well and they can, they can, they can make it work.

2385
02:32:51,760 --> 02:32:59,760
But remember it is a, it's a, it's a relatively very cheap feature film, which I think I'll

2386
02:32:59,760 --> 02:33:02,220
be punching well above its weight.

2387
02:33:02,220 --> 02:33:03,220
So fingers crossed.

2388
02:33:03,220 --> 02:33:04,220
Beautiful.

2389
02:33:04,220 --> 02:33:07,440
Well, we have to let me know, you know, when it's coming out in the UK when you actually

2390
02:33:07,440 --> 02:33:10,360
have a date and a place and then the same for the U S and obviously I'll share it on

2391
02:33:10,360 --> 02:33:11,360
my end.

2392
02:33:11,360 --> 02:33:12,360
No, that'll be lovely.

2393
02:33:12,360 --> 02:33:13,360
That would be, be wonderful.

2394
02:33:13,360 --> 02:33:16,480
Well, I just, like I said, I want to be mindful of your time.

2395
02:33:16,480 --> 02:33:19,680
So just before I let you go though, I'm sure people are intrigued.

2396
02:33:19,680 --> 02:33:24,000
You know, you have, you know, such a, a library of work that you've done.

2397
02:33:24,000 --> 02:33:27,560
Where are the best places to find you online and on social media?

2398
02:33:27,560 --> 02:33:28,560
All right.

2399
02:33:28,560 --> 02:33:35,160
So it's, it's Tip Cullen, at Tip Cullen, I think Insta, there's not, again, famous last

2400
02:33:35,160 --> 02:33:38,760
words but Tip Cullen on Instagram and Facebook.

2401
02:33:38,760 --> 02:33:44,600
I've also got a Vimeo, Vimeo, Vimeo?

2402
02:33:44,600 --> 02:33:45,600
The Vimeo?

2403
02:33:45,600 --> 02:33:46,600
Vimeo.

2404
02:33:46,600 --> 02:33:47,600
That's the word Vimeo.

2405
02:33:47,600 --> 02:33:48,600
Vimeo channel.

2406
02:33:48,600 --> 02:33:53,600
But, and I do have a website, but it's getting just re-budded at the minute.

2407
02:33:53,600 --> 02:33:55,080
My mate, my mate does it, does it for me.

2408
02:33:55,080 --> 02:33:56,080
Who's a bit of a guru.

2409
02:33:56,080 --> 02:33:58,840
Again, a former Romerian who's a guru.

2410
02:33:58,840 --> 02:34:01,200
But yeah, so, and that's it.

2411
02:34:01,200 --> 02:34:02,200
And I've got IMDB.

2412
02:34:02,200 --> 02:34:06,480
I'm on IMDB and my agent is Judy Fox Associates.

2413
02:34:06,480 --> 02:34:11,720
So if there's any filmmakers out there that need a honking great Irish actor that, you

2414
02:34:11,720 --> 02:34:16,040
know, can, can tell a good story, get hold of Judy Fox.

2415
02:34:16,040 --> 02:34:18,040
She'll sort, sort you out.

2416
02:34:18,040 --> 02:34:19,040
Brilliant.

2417
02:34:19,040 --> 02:34:24,200
Well, I said this to, to Bobby Burke, who's a firefighter actor friend of mine.

2418
02:34:24,200 --> 02:34:28,560
Putting it out there, when I write this, the story, one of my kind of fantasies is all

2419
02:34:28,560 --> 02:34:31,800
the people that I know that are already in that industry come together, you know, like

2420
02:34:31,800 --> 02:34:36,280
Ben Sirer from The Stance and Shane, you know, I mean, who knows?

2421
02:34:36,280 --> 02:34:39,560
So maybe one day I'll actually get to walk on set with you.

2422
02:34:39,560 --> 02:34:40,560
We'll see.

2423
02:34:40,560 --> 02:34:42,120
No, no, but James, lovely meeting you.

2424
02:34:42,120 --> 02:34:45,280
I mean, thanks very much for, for having me on the, on your podcast.

2425
02:34:45,280 --> 02:34:46,280
Cause it's great.

2426
02:34:46,280 --> 02:34:49,680
I like, you know, you said purging or cleansing the soul.

2427
02:34:49,680 --> 02:35:03,000
I think chatting with you does help massively.