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I'm extremely excited to announce a brand new sponsor for the Behind the Shield podcast

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that is Transcend.

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Now for many of you listening, you are probably working the same brutal shifts that I did

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for 14 years.

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Suffering from sleep deprivation, body composition challenges, mental health challenges, libido,

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hair loss, etc.

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Now when it comes to the world of hormone replacement and peptide therapy, what I have

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seen is a shift from doctors telling us that we were within normal limits, which was definitely

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incorrect all the way to the other way now where men's clinics are popping up left, right

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and center.

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So I myself wanted to find a reputable company that would do an analysis of my physiology

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and then offer supplementations without ramming, for example, hormone replacement therapy down

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my throat.

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Now I came across Transcend because they have an altruistic arm and they were a big reason

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why the 7X project I was a part of was able to proceed because of their generous donations.

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They also have the Transcend foundations where they are actually putting military and first

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responders through some of their therapies at no cost to the individual.

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So my own personal journey so far filled in the online form, went to Quest, got blood

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drawn and a few days later I'm talking to one of their wellness professionals as they

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guide me through my results and the supplementation that they suggest.

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In my case specifically, because I transitioned out the fire service five years ago and been

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very diligent with my health, my testosterone was actually in a good place.

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So I went down the peptide route and some other supplements to try and maximize my physiology

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knowing full well the damage that 14 years of shift work has done.

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Now I also want to underline because I think this is very important that each of the therapies

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they offer, they will talk about the pros and cons.

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So for example, a lot of first responders in shift work, our testosterone will be low,

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but sometimes nutrition, exercise and sleep can offset that on its own.

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So this company is not going to try and push you down a path, especially if it's one that

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you can't come back from.

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So whether it's libido, brain fog, inflammation, gut health, performance, sleep, this is definitely

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one of the most powerful tools in the toolbox.

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So to learn more, go to transcendcompany.com or listen to episode 808 of the Behind the

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Shield podcast with founder Ernie Colling.

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This episode is sponsored by New Calm.

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As many of you know, I only bring sponsors onto this show whose products I truly swear

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by.

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Now we are an overworked and under slept population, especially those of us that wear uniform for

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a living and trying to reclaim some of the lost rest and recovery is imperative.

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Now the application of this product is as simple as putting on headphones and a sleep

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mask.

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As you listen to music on each of the programs, there is neuroacoustic software beneath that

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is tapping into the actual frequencies of your brain, whether to up-regulate your nervous

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system or down-regulate.

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Now for most of us that come off shift, we are A, exhausted and B, do not want to bring

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what we've had to see and do back home to our loved ones.

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So one powerful application is using the program Powernap, a 20 minute session that will not

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only feel like you've had two hours of sleep, but also down-regulate from a hypervigilant

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state back into the role of mother or father, husband or wife.

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Now there are so many other applications and benefits from this software, so I urge you

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to go and listen to episode 806 with CEO Jim Pool.

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Then download Newcom, N-U-C-A-L-M from your app store and sign up for the 7 day free trial.

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Not only will you have an understanding of the origin story and the four decades this

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science has spanned, but also see for yourself the incredible health impact of this life-changing

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software.

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And you can find even more information on Newcom.com.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield Podcast.

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As always, my name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on

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the show Herbalist Cameron Strauss.

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Now as you will hear, when I went into this podcast, when it comes to the world of herbs,

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I was somewhat uneducated.

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I've been exposed to CBD, psychedelics, mushrooms, but I am definitely a white belt when it comes

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to knowledge of the healing power of some of these elements that she discusses.

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So we delve into her early life, the psychological trauma and her physical injuries that modern

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medicine didn't seem to be able to help, how she came across herbalism, some powerful

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remedies when it comes to down regulating the nervous system, depression, anxiety, sleep

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quality, herbs for pain, foraging, the power of carver and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and

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leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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And this is a free library of well over 850 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories so

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I can get them to every single person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Cameron Strauss.

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Enjoy.

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Well Cameron, I want to start by saying thank you to Rex who we were just talking about

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a second ago, amazing wildland firefighter in California for connecting us and I want

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to say welcome to you to come on Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Thanks, I'm great.

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I'm really glad to be here.

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So where on planet earth are we finding you?

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Central Alabama.

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Alabama.

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Alabama.

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I would love to start at the very beginning of your timeline.

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So tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what

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your parents did, how many siblings.

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Yeah, so born in Arkansas but quickly moved to Alabama afterwards.

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Pretty much grew up in Alabama, Central Alabama.

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My dad is an engineer, was a forester and then changed careers into engineering and

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my mom worked on and off primarily stay at home mom and owned her own tea shop, Miss

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Magnolia's Old Time Tea Parties.

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So I have a firm love of fancy tea and dressing up in ridiculous costumes.

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So that was my parents and then my sisters, I have an older sister and a younger sister.

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So a classic middle child in Rome.

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And our family dynamics were not great.

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There was as with that, you know, kind of what comes with dysfunctional family dynamics

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is everyone's hurting and no one's benefiting, everyone's dysregulated, everyone feels alienated,

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left out.

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And so it was not a great scene.

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And I was sexually assaulted by someone that I was close to as a child.

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And so kind of the piling on of not great family dynamics and not super, you know, you

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hear a lot and I have experienced that when really hard things happen, if you have a good

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support network, then you're much just insanely more resilient.

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And that is not what was happening in our family unit.

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And then as a teenager, I was a dancer and I ended up with a foot injury, basically tarsal

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tunnel, and I turned into a very severe injury and I ended up having surgery on both ankles.

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My senior year of high school and dance was my primary means of coping and regulating

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my nervous system.

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And I suddenly no longer had that.

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And that is sort of the genesis of the downward spiral of my health and of my nervous system

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in general.

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And so after my surgery, they had put my cast on too tight and cut my circulation off.

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Not all the way, but not great.

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It was not great.

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And so from that, I ended up with a chronic pain syndrome and chronic venous insufficiency.

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And that was the beginning of a couple of other chronic health problems that I ended

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up with from the stress.

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I ended up with PMDD, which is premenstrual dysmorphic disorder, which is just basically

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really awful PMS and very consistent mood disorder and the chronic pain kind of overlapping

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that.

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And then I have trauma induced complex PTSD and ADD.

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Can't separate them, but sort of the combination of the childhood trauma, the poor family dynamics

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and this foot surgery that basically rendered me pretty crippled for a while.

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I was in a wheelchair for a good portion of my senior year of high school and then was

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in chronic pain and didn't know it, which the brain is such an amazing, amazing thing.

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I just blocked out all of my pain.

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And I was very short tempered and very stressed for many years until a good friend of mine

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did a clinic appointment on me and she was like, are you pain?

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I was like, yeah, yeah, like six, seven out of 10 every day.

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And she was like, what?

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And so, yeah, so, you know, it's sort of amazing when you have someone that can sort of sit

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you down and pin you down about things that your brain is not wanting to acknowledge.

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But yeah, so I take pain management, herbal pain management really consistently.

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I don't need it, as in I don't like I can function without it, but I'm very irritable

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and short tempered and have less capacity when I don't do pain management, which, you

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know, that's a huge like herbal pain management is it's an amazing rabbit hole to dive into.

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But yeah, so that's kind of like, maybe in a nutshell how I ended up, but I in college,

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I just kept having health problems, my periods were getting worse.

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I was throwing up every time I had my cycle.

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I was having anxiety and depression and really big mood swings and was hurting all the time.

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And I had a lot of joint pain, arthritis in my hips and ankles and knees.

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And I just kept going to the doctor and they would be like, your labs are fine, you're

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fine.

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And I just kept, you know, I'm like 19 years old and I can tell you when it's going to

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snow and I can tell you when it's going to rain because I can feel it.

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And I just, everyone just sort of kept being like, you know, either you're a hypochondriac

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or it's just sort of like, we don't know what to do with you kind of.

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So I would go to the doctor, they'd be like, it's in your head and then send me on my way

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sort of.

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And so I was on a run one day and I saw a plant and I was like, you know what, people

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used to know how to take care of themselves.

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Like I keep looking for someone else to solve these problems for me.

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It's not their body.

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It's not their life.

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They know it's not deeply impacting them every day.

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Like there's just no way somebody else can care about it more than me.

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And they're not, I don't think nobody was ever maliciously, you know, care providers

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are not actively not wanting to help you.

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And I think that that's, you know, a negative thing maybe a lot of times that we see in

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the more natural minded like pop culture is that care providers are mean and bad and like

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trying to harm you or avoid giving you care or whatever.

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They just didn't know.

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Like nobody knew about some of the stuff.

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There just wasn't research.

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There was not a lot of research on women.

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There's not, there was not a lot of knowledge or understanding around food sensitivities

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causing arthritis or histamine issues causing PMDD or chronic stress and trauma and hormonal

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dysfunction.

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There just wasn't, there weren't tools in the toolkit for what was going on for me.

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And so I was on a run.

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I saw a plant.

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I was like, I'm going to try to figure that out.

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And I changed my degree.

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I was in speech path and art and I changed to biology and environmental studies minor

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and found an herb teacher and started going to herb school while I was in college and

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just started winging it.

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I mean, I was just like harvesting plants, trying to figure out how to key out.

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And I have a focus in botany.

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So learning how to key out plants, learning how to forage, learning about what grows in

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my area, what's good for what.

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And you just kind of start at the beginning and start winging it.

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And I went on a really weird elimination diet.

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I mean, just, I just started guinea pigging myself poorly, trying to figure things out

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and slowly would gain one little piece at a time.

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And so when I graduated, I had gone to herb school and it made me just knowledgeable enough

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to be dangerous.

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And I really knew that.

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And I had parsed together some of what was going on with me and would get a little bit

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of a gain here and there.

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Graduated, did an internship with Herb Farm, the tincture company.

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And what's kind of interesting about how I got into herbalism is I didn't get into herbalism

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from like standard, like buying herbs at an herb shop.

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I didn't even know that there were herb shops.

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I was introduced to herbalism through that herb in my backyard is Boneset and it's used

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for fevers.

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And it never occurred to me that there was an international herb trade.

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It never occurred to me to go buy a tincture.

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And so like health food store culture was not how I got into herbal medicine.

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And so I went to Herb Farm, which is kind of an international, they grow a lot of herbs

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and have an internship program.

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So worked at Herb Farm, did an internship with a botanical garden, and then found another

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teacher and his name is Thomas Easley and he does functional medicine and clinical herbalism.

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So I went to his school and then graduated from his school and started my own clinical

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practice.

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And I did that clinical practice for seven years and I saw over 700 people in clinical

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practice.

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And it's really interesting being an unlicensed practitioner and not having really any street

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cred at all in the United States.

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It's a very interesting paradigm here as far as herbalism as a career in general.

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But in Europe, I don't know, you're from England, right?

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Yes.

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So they have certified herbalists that can act as primary care providers and you have

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to have your licensed care provider.

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And it's just not like that here.

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You can't touch people.

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You can't give dietary advice.

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You can't diagnose, treat, or prescribe, even though that's what everybody's doing.

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We're just like, oh yeah, you should probably ask your doctor these very five very pointed

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questions about what I'm pretty sure that you have.

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And so, you know, it took all of those years of clinical work and just really being humbled

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in the process of recognizing that different people have so many different ways that their

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body manages and deals with stress, manifests illness.

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And then we have all of the kind of pretzeling that human beings do when things are different

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and or change the way we feel about ourselves or things like social inequity.

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Like, you know, I can have a client come in and maybe they're a single mom and they have

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no family support and they're having to work nights and they, you know, and they just have

230
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this chronic stress and their thyroid gives out and they're having allergic reactions

231
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to the thyroid med.

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And so that's why they're here.

233
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And I'm trying to figure out how can I help this person who has very little resources,

234
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very little money to get their thyroid to start working well again when they can barely

235
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cook a meal.

236
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They don't have their, you know, they're eating McDonald's because that's what they've got

237
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money for and that's what they've got time for.

238
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And that's what they're, you know, in.

239
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And like, no matter how many herbs you give somebody, you can't make up for social lack.

240
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You can't make up for chronic trauma.

241
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:37,400
Like you can't and that's something that I run into in myself and with clients.

242
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:48,520
And sometimes it's just, you kind of just have to find windows and you go slow.

243
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People's nervous systems don't.

244
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:56,720
And I really wanted to talk about this.

245
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It's really easy to say when someone's experiencing trauma or hardship or an illness that they

246
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just need to try harder or do more or do better or go to therapy or, you know, no one gets

247
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better from an eating disorder by being harder on themselves.

248
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You know, it, the nature of a lot of stress, illness and disease is overperforming, not

249
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resting enough, not taking care of our needs, not even recognizing we have needs.

250
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I mean, I was in chronic pain for seven years without knowing it.

251
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We can hide a lot of things from ourselves and subconsciously roadblock our path to healing.

252
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And I think this is where kind of herbal medicine really shines in that we can't, we can't create

253
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:17,440
different nervous system states in ourselves unless we can feel what that actually feels

254
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like.

255
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:24,720
So if somebody has never felt calm, you can't just tell them to calm down and think that

256
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they're going to know what that is.

257
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:28,680
It works really well on my wife.

258
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Just calm down.

259
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She's like, Oh, thank you for that advice.

260
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,960
Now my parasympathetic has kicked in and I'm good and I love you again.

261
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It's completely nuts.

262
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:38,920
It's just bonkers.

263
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:47,000
And, you know, and if you're, if you're constantly swimming in a soup, either the people around

264
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:56,120
you don't understand you can't see you or you're don't, you don't have stable housing

265
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or you don't have nervousness.

266
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I mean, we can go to the extreme where we don't have stable housing.

267
00:22:02,980 --> 00:22:07,560
We don't have good employment, we're chronically disabled, whatever it is.

268
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,680
Or it could just be that your brain, you might be chill.

269
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Like you might have a calm life, but you know, like maybe you're, you've just learned through

270
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time that it's a bad idea to sleep because like my, my co-parent, my ex-husband, he works

271
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on a tugboat and he has weird shift work hours and he worked for a company where something

272
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:41,120
was always exploding in the middle of the night.

273
00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:47,480
Like something was always catching fire or the CO2 alert is going off or like something

274
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crazy.

275
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:49,480
It's just always happening.

276
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And that's, it's similar for first responders where there's just, you're constantly in a

277
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state of high alert and then you kind of get stuck.

278
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And then if you're not, if you're not able to let the back of your brain really integrate

279
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:13,760
and know that you're safe, you're no longer in that stressful situation.

280
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:17,840
Maybe you even have a nutrient deficiency that's preventing you from excreting cortisol

281
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,600
at a reasonable rate.

282
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:28,880
And you're just, you know, you need B6, you need magnesium, you need B12, you need nutrients

283
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,440
to be able to process out cortisol and get rid of it.

284
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,320
And maybe you have a nutrient deficiency.

285
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:42,240
Maybe you're using alcohol to cope and it's using up all of your B6 and therefore you

286
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:47,680
don't have the capacity and ability to excrete your cortisol quickly enough to get you down

287
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:53,520
regulated and you're just swimming in a soup of cortisol for, you know, and you end up

288
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:59,600
with an autoimmune disease later or have a heart attack later because of the kind of

289
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,720
neurochemical soup that you're swimming in.

290
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:13,000
And so, you know, a lot of it, a lot of how I have worked with my own trauma and my own

291
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:22,840
and trying to teach my nervous system how to be different has been just learning every

292
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:27,040
tool in the toolkit.

293
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:34,440
And you know, you have to sort of simultaneously create safe, cozy places for yourself.

294
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:40,480
You have to create relationships that feel good and safe and you have to work on that.

295
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:45,600
Sometimes people do not, I did not know what real friendship felt like.

296
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,820
I did not know what a good relationship looked like.

297
00:24:48,820 --> 00:24:53,560
I did not know what feeling calm with another person felt like.

298
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And I had to work on that and learn how to do that and dip my toe in.

299
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:07,520
And then, you know, being around other people that are calm, I learned how to be calm from

300
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,880
my first relationship out of my marriage.

301
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,640
I was like, man, this guy is chill.

302
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:28,320
And I had never, I had never been close enough to somebody to see how you could even be in

303
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:35,960
a situation where something stressful could happen and you felt so at ease in yourself

304
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:43,680
and at home in yourself and resourced in yourself that you felt like it was like, okay, this

305
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,520
crazy thing happened, we'll deal with it.

306
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,440
It was never, it never felt like that.

307
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:55,960
I was like single mom, working a business, tending all of these people with these chronic

308
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,280
health problems.

309
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,400
And I was just, I did not have the resources.

310
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:05,680
Everything that happened always felt like an emergency.

311
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:14,800
And so a lot of times, like, I think, gently and carefully, and with a lot of compassion

312
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:22,000
and tenderness, restructuring and recreating our life in a way that is more peaceful and

313
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:30,760
more cozy and more lovely so that if we do have a job or an event or whatever, we can

314
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,960
leave that.

315
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:39,060
We come off the clock, we have decompression routine that occurs.

316
00:26:39,060 --> 00:26:45,720
We have like the coziest bathrobe, like as much sensory input as you can give your nervous

317
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,200
system that everything's okay.

318
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:54,280
Like sometimes I'll just wake up and be in a triggered state for no reason.

319
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,440
And I'll just be like, okay, what do you need?

320
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:58,440
What do you need?

321
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,000
You want the fuzziest blanket?

322
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,440
You want the warmest bath?

323
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,160
You don't want to do an ice bath this morning?

324
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:05,160
Okay.

325
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,760
What you want to go, let's put on your favorite song and dance.

326
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:17,760
Like it's, it can be really difficult when you're in a heightened nervous system state

327
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:26,240
to switch from push hard, go hard.

328
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,280
Like the more effort you put in, the better it's going to be.

329
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:37,720
This is how we muscle through, muscling through, calming your nervous system down is not how

330
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,720
you do that.

331
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:40,720
Absolutely.

332
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:47,040
Well, I mean, it reminds me of, I remember, I think I even made a video about it because

333
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,240
it was, it was interesting, but I used to have the whole philosophy of you come off

334
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,160
shift and 24 hours, no sleep.

335
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:59,200
And then I'd go to CrossFit and just smash myself to pieces because I would think, and

336
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,640
this was not too long ago either.

337
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,880
I thought this way, you know, you sweat out the stress, you get it out, you burn it off,

338
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,080
all these, these phrases that we use.

339
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,840
And it was actually a Navy SEAL who's one of the elite strength and conditioning coaches

340
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:16,240
in the tactical space, um, talked about this and he's like, you are in a stress straight

341
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,320
state when you come off shift.

342
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,960
Now you do a red line workout, you're adding stress to stress.

343
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,200
What point does that make sense that you're going to down regulate?

344
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:30,560
And he was absolutely right and I was doing this, this workout not too long after that.

345
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:35,800
I think there was, I think it was when there was an issue with my son, um, and his school

346
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,320
and some horrendous freaking mistakes that they'd made.

347
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:44,040
But uh, it was a kind of a technical workout with snatches and some other stuff.

348
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,920
And I remember just getting so fucking pissed off basically.

349
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,920
And then I remembered what Jeff said and I was like, ah, and I literally middle of the

350
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:56,480
workout, put the barbell down and just went for a slow one mile run.

351
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,400
And by the time I came back, I felt better.

352
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,680
So you know, exactly like you're saying that would not be an ice bath day.

353
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,960
That might be a warm bath day.

354
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:06,960
Yeah.

355
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:07,960
Yeah.

356
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,200
Um, you said the F bomb, so I'm going to say this.

357
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:12,200
Oh yeah.

358
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,560
This is a open season here.

359
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,560
That's one of my many vocabulary words.

360
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,120
Yeah, me too.

361
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:24,000
So, you know, it's kind of emotional masturbation.

362
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:30,800
You can like, you can do more of the thing you're already doing and that's the easy thing.

363
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,080
Um, and that could be ruminating.

364
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:39,600
That can be, um, and this is when like herbs really help.

365
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:44,520
Um, because you get into like, and I've been doing this for a long time.

366
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:52,280
So like, I know when I'm PMS saying, and I have a GABA deficiency, like I know the estrogen

367
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,760
is going to go down, progesterone is going to go down and I'm going to lay in the bed

368
00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:01,840
and make up something to be mad about and lay there on a hamster wheel with, with a

369
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,000
severe lack of a calming neurotransmitter.

370
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:14,000
And, and you can say all you want to me that I need to just meditate that away.

371
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:23,240
But when you have really strongly, um, wired neurological pathways that ruminating is what

372
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:28,320
keeps you safe because it helps you predict when bad shit's going to happen.

373
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,480
Um, like that good for you.

374
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,720
Like you try to meditate.

375
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:40,000
Um, and like, so I know, okay, I'm on a hamster wheel.

376
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,080
I'm having a repetitive thought pattern.

377
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:43,920
I am deficient in GABA right now.

378
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,400
I'm going to go take something GABAnergic.

379
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:55,680
So I have passionflower great, um, as a GABAnergic herb to really help with, uh, up regulating

380
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,720
GABA and guess what?

381
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:06,080
I fall asleep in 15 minutes and the hamster wheel, I can just feel my brain go, Oh, okay.

382
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,760
Like that's what we needed.

383
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,020
We couldn't, we couldn't find the pathway.

384
00:31:10,020 --> 00:31:16,080
Like we've worked on it, but we've got this highway over here and the stream over here.

385
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,360
And of, and I'm, I really would love to change the channel.

386
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:25,560
Like I don't want to be on this ruminating highway from hell, but I, but I don't know

387
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:26,840
how to get there.

388
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:34,040
And it's hard to get your brain to switch over to this nice, really small new neurological

389
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:39,000
pathway where I don't lay in the bed and ruminate over pointless things that don't help me rather

390
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,700
than have conversations or journal and then read that journal entry to the person I'm

391
00:31:43,700 --> 00:31:45,280
upset with.

392
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:52,160
Um, you know, and so herbs are great in that we can use them to play neurological whack-a-mole

393
00:31:52,160 --> 00:32:00,600
when we are having these nervous system states that sure, maybe we could go run and burn

394
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,840
off some of this, but is it the most productive?

395
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,080
Isn't the most helpful?

396
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:12,160
Does it actually send more stress signals that and make, give us a long range sort of

397
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:18,360
stress response trigger that like we're constantly in this state and we're going to add to it

398
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:24,340
and we're going to keep heaping it on, um, rather than being able to play nervous system

399
00:32:24,340 --> 00:32:32,240
whack-a-mole where, you know, eventually I won't need herbs to help my brain choose to

400
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,960
not ruminate help, but that is my, has been my coping mechanism.

401
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:43,240
My coping strategies are hypervigilance and obsessively thinking about all of these people

402
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:48,240
and how they think about me and you know, whatever it might be, whatever your programming

403
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:55,560
is that your brain perceives as the way that you keep safe, even though it's maladaptive.

404
00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:02,600
Um, and so I like, um, there's another herb.

405
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:07,960
So, kind of one of the things I talk about a lot is part of the reason why we see people

406
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:15,400
with really stressful jobs have a really difficult time stopping smoking is because they're self-medicating

407
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,920
with something that increases peripheral circulation.

408
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:25,100
So when we have trauma responses, we lose prefrontal cortex blood flow, we lose peripheral

409
00:33:25,100 --> 00:33:27,160
blood flow.

410
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:33,440
We get constriction of your respiratory, your diaphragm gets tight, your smooth muscle gets

411
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,320
tight, your blood flow is restricted.

412
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,880
Well guess what nicotine and cigarettes do?

413
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,760
There is a stimulating relaxant.

414
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,200
It brings blood flow to your brain.

415
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,600
It dilates all of your smooth muscles and your capillaries and veins and arteries.

416
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,520
So you're getting peripheral blood flow.

417
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:56,800
You get this blood perfusion and then you breathe deeper and you're getting diaphragmatic

418
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,040
relaxation and you're breathing.

419
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,040
You're taking a breath break.

420
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,200
You go outside and you breathe.

421
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:12,000
You're breathing in a bunch of toxic, toxic soup, but, and so, um, you know, when I'm

422
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:19,320
in a PTSD flare or I'm trying to prevent this from snowballing, um, I will use an herb called

423
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:24,720
lobelia which has lobulin in it, which it hits nicotinic receptor sites and it is a

424
00:34:24,720 --> 00:34:31,720
stimulating relaxant and it called, it relaxes my smooth muscle, helps with relaxing my diaphragm,

425
00:34:31,720 --> 00:34:34,760
gets me prefrontal cortex back online.

426
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:44,480
Um, and I, I do that in set and maybe like I create this, I love making mocktails at

427
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:45,480
night.

428
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:50,600
One of the things that I do, especially if I'm going through something really stressful,

429
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:56,840
it's really natural for people to want to self medicate and I'm kind of doing two topics

430
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:02,480
at once, but self medication is valuable in that it gives us information.

431
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:10,240
So if you're self medicating with alcohol, then you need to be your dopamine and serotonin

432
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:11,360
seeking.

433
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:17,360
If you're prone to cigarettes, you're needing more of like, um, you know, a stimulating

434
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:18,400
relaxant.

435
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:24,600
So when people are, uh, maybe in social environments, they get really stressed.

436
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,720
That might be better suited for an herb called name kava.

437
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:30,000
Maybe they're ruminating at night.

438
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,000
That's passion flowers.

439
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:36,500
So at night, kind of the five things that I always pretty much do in my mocktails as

440
00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:40,320
I do like a little body inventory and I'm like, am I really physically tense?

441
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,520
Do I have a lot of musculoskeletal tension?

442
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,600
And am I slightly anxious or needing to go into a social environment where there's a

443
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:48,880
lot of new people?

444
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,800
I'll take kava, which is akin to a benzodiazepine.

445
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:58,120
It's a musculoskeletal relaxant and it makes you feel sort of just happy and calm.

446
00:35:58,120 --> 00:35:59,480
You say kava?

447
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:00,480
Kava.

448
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,840
I traveled to Fiji and actually got to drink it with a local Fijian tribe.

449
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:06,120
It's so fancy.

450
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:07,120
It's amazing.

451
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,160
What's interesting is there's, there was a military coup that happened when we were there

452
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,000
and my girlfriend at the time and I were obviously, you know, cautious at first.

453
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,800
And when I researched it, it's like, Hey, it doesn't seem to be like a violent coup

454
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:19,800
at all.

455
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:20,800
This is what happens.

456
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,480
And what they do is they'll go and invade the government building.

457
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,840
They'll drink kava.

458
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:31,360
They'll discuss the things that they're disagreeing with and then they'll all leave and then everything's

459
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:32,360
good again.

460
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:33,360
So, you know, yeah.

461
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,400
So kava, I gotta say, I have personal experience.

462
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,480
It's like shit, but it's very good.

463
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:38,480
Yeah.

464
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:39,480
Yeah.

465
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:44,680
So, well, I have a recipe I'm more than happy to afford to a way to hide kava in a mocktail.

466
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,200
Please, please.

467
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:53,140
But yeah, so I'll just like, I don't make, I don't make these mocktails taste good.

468
00:36:53,140 --> 00:36:54,140
That's not the point.

469
00:36:54,140 --> 00:36:59,440
The point is to help my nervous system get regulated in a way that is harm reduction.

470
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:00,760
I'm doing harm reduction.

471
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:07,280
I could drink and then the next day I'd be incredibly depressed because you have that

472
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,240
big tank out screws with your blood sugar.

473
00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:11,920
You don't sleep well.

474
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:17,680
Technically a carcinogen, like, you know, it's just not, um, one of the rules in dialectical

475
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,320
behavioral therapy is don't make things worse.

476
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,280
Um, it's just the tenant.

477
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:27,080
Like if you're not doing well, don't stack your deck with things that make it worse.

478
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:32,600
And so a lot of what I do and recommend and help people try to do with herbs is, is play

479
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:39,360
neurological whack a mole so that you're looking at what your body is craving to help you regulate

480
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,880
your nervous system and to do the healthier version of that.

481
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,640
Um, so kava is a great one that I do at night.

482
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:51,400
If I'm feeling like, like sometimes I'll smoke.

483
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:52,920
I've never been a smoker.

484
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:54,680
Obviously it gives you cancer.

485
00:37:54,680 --> 00:38:02,800
So, um, occasionally that will be the, the tool that I choose to use will be a cigarette.

486
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:09,520
Um, but preferentially I'm making a mocktail with low Belia so that I'm getting that smooth

487
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:10,720
muscle relaxation.

488
00:38:10,720 --> 00:38:13,680
I'm getting, um, peripheral blood flow.

489
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:18,200
I'm getting, um, prefrontal cortex activation.

490
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:19,600
I'm getting all of that.

491
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,480
The other thing that I do a lot is passion flower in my mocktails at night.

492
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,760
Um, for that repetitive thought thing.

493
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,720
Um, mimosa is fabulous.

494
00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:31,400
Mimosa is serotonergic.

495
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,600
So I'm not talking about like a mimosa cocktail.

496
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:40,480
I'm talking about, yeah, I'll, I'll be Zia, uh, Jula brisin.

497
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,160
It is an invasive plant.

498
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:46,440
It's called the happiness tree and it is, it's serotonergic.

499
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:52,840
So if you're really struggling, like you want to drink less, you can get some mimosa and

500
00:38:52,840 --> 00:39:02,360
it, it makes you happy and Lucy goosey and really helps, um, with that kind of come down.

501
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,480
Um, another tool that I use a lot and lean on a lot.

502
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:10,880
And I think you may have talked about this on the podcast before, but phosphatidyl serine.

503
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,200
Um, I don't think so.

504
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:14,200
So please educate me.

505
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:15,200
Yeah.

506
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,840
So, um, it kind of basically suppresses adrenal output of cortisol.

507
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:25,520
So if I'm in a hardcore flare and I'm waking up every four hours from a cortisol spike,

508
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:35,320
um, then phosphatidyl serine, um, is really amazing at just kind of helping to suppress

509
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,960
that excessive cortisol output.

510
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:42,440
Um, and you can obviously do that with herbs also.

511
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:49,480
So long range, um, we call them adaptogens.

512
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:55,600
So and you know, it's a buzzword and, um, a lot of people talk about Ashwagandha is

513
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,960
an adaptogen, but there's a lot more.

514
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:07,960
Um, and a lot of times people will confuse and conflate adaptogens with stimulants.

515
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:12,360
There are a lot of adaptogens that are actually just stimulants that help you push through

516
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,280
stress and stimulate you.

517
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:22,080
So like Shazandra, an adaptogen that is, it's an adaptogen, but it is a stimulant.

518
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:28,200
Um, uh, Elruthro stimulant, like ginseng stimulant.

519
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,880
They do help you modulate your stress response to a certain degree, but they also will help

520
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:33,880
you.

521
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:40,440
Um, if you're in a stressful situation and you need go juice, like you can use those,

522
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:46,600
but when, but on a daily basis, trying to regulate cortisol output and decrease systemic

523
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:47,600
stress.

524
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:54,800
Um, I really like using things like Ashwagandha, milky oats.

525
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,440
I also really like fresh skull cap.

526
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,820
Skull cap is really particular for people who have, that are, have frazzled nerves or,

527
00:41:02,820 --> 00:41:06,080
or describe themselves as being at the end of their rope.

528
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:14,760
Um, if they jump at loud noises, if they're just like high strung and feeling on edge,

529
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:22,800
skull cap is a really good one to kind of, um, help calm your nervous system down and

530
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:27,560
helps to alter your response to stress over time.

531
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:34,720
And doing those as a daily practice, especially when you have really stressful jobs, um, and

532
00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:40,080
your nervous system is really on high alert a lot.

533
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,220
It's a really good idea to have those in your back pocket as maintenance.

534
00:41:43,220 --> 00:41:46,280
And then I like doing the phosphatidylserine on top of that.

535
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:52,120
So maybe, uh, you have your stressful job, you kind of feel like you're doing maintenance

536
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:57,480
and everything's pretty chill, not chill, but as chill as you can be for a first responder.

537
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:02,400
Um, and then financial stress or illness in the family.

538
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:07,760
And you're just like, your nervous system is like, well, we were okay, but now we're

539
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:08,760
not.

540
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,320
Then I like adding phosphatidylserine.

541
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,520
Um, and it, I find that it does wear off.

542
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,200
It's a four hour window.

543
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,440
Um, and that's another thing with herbs.

544
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:24,440
If you're doing nervous system herbs, um, they tend to work for about and metabolize

545
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,000
out in about four hours.

546
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:34,360
So pretty much everything, um, you know, there's, I'm, I'm hand waving at a complicated topic,

547
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:43,400
but, uh, uh, half life and metabolism is very incredibly variable, but as a general rule,

548
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:49,720
when working with nervous system herbs, um, I, I, it's a four hour window.

549
00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:56,400
Um, and you know, I think doing the mocktail thing at night is a really key, important

550
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,120
part of my routine for helping me to play nervous system whack-a-mole.

551
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:08,560
Um, but also I think if you're having a hard time in the morning, when you wake up doing

552
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:15,160
those same herbs in the morning and kind of playing around with, okay, I'm feeling really

553
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:24,080
tense or I feel just grumpy or, um, you know, and once you give your nervous system these

554
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:32,560
tools in, so we're going to go for alcohol because we know what that feels like.

555
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:38,040
We know what that's like, but if you give yourself more resources for other ways of

556
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:47,280
changing your behavior that are less harmful and more targeted, then you're opening yourself

557
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,880
up to a different, um, like you just have a better toolkit.

558
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:58,720
Um, and I think that that's important to be able to, to say like, well, I want to drink,

559
00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:03,640
but that is a serotonergic drive and dopaminergic drive.

560
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:09,680
What are ways that I can get serotonin and dopamine from herbs and or activities?

561
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,360
Like I have a list of, this is what I need to do for serotonin.

562
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,280
This is what I need to do for dopamine.

563
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,000
This is what I do for oxytocin.

564
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:18,520
This is what I do when I'm feeling this way.

565
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:24,000
This is what I do when I'm feeling this way, um, and kind of the more diversified your

566
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,520
toolkit is the better you're going to be.

567
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:33,760
Um, and you know, if you can pull from bilateral stimulation and have y'all, have you talked

568
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:40,120
about that on the podcast before EMDR EMDR, but also just bilateral STEM in general.

569
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:41,120
Okay.

570
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:42,120
Yeah.

571
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,920
It seems like there's a lot of parallels between the theory of EMDR and then people that seem

572
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:51,200
to have a lot of therapy, hiking, walking, uh, kayaking where there is this left, right,

573
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,400
left, right, kind of left, right, left, right.

574
00:44:53,400 --> 00:45:02,160
And also, um, one of my favorite sleep hacks is actually, um, I don't know when I, I, I'm,

575
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:10,760
I figured this one out before bilateral STEM was a thing, but if you, if you do, I movement

576
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:16,040
REM REM sleep is rapid eye movement, your eyes are moving back and forth.

577
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:21,680
So I was like one night I was just had being an insomniac and laying there like, well,

578
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,560
your eyes move when you're in REM sleep.

579
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:29,620
So maybe I can trick my brain into going into REM sleep because it's not deep sleep and

580
00:45:29,620 --> 00:45:35,360
maybe I'll fall asleep and it worked like a champ, but it's bilateral STEM.

581
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,800
So it's, I mean, it's counting sheep.

582
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:42,560
This is when like an old nursery rhyme idea, we count sheep.

583
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,140
We're like looking at the sheep.

584
00:45:44,140 --> 00:45:50,000
So just literally count sheep with your eyes and then I'll do box breathing or four, seven,

585
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:55,680
eight breathing at the same time and just move my eyes and it's, or if I'm not like,

586
00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:01,360
I don't know, maybe I don't want to do eye movements, but I'll just do tapping bilateral

587
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,840
STEM and do four, seven, eight breathing.

588
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:08,000
And I'm out in like 10 minutes.

589
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:14,760
And so, you know, you just like as many tools as you can possibly resource yourself with

590
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:22,700
in order to get yourself out of a PTSD flare or re-regulate your nervous system, the better

591
00:46:22,700 --> 00:46:23,760
off you're going to be.

592
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:29,320
And when you do a check-in and you go, Hey, like this crazy thing happened.

593
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,540
What do you need?

594
00:46:31,540 --> 00:46:34,920
It could be that you do need to go punch something.

595
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:39,300
It could be that you do need a herbal mocktail.

596
00:46:39,300 --> 00:46:41,400
It could be that you want bilateral STEM.

597
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:47,480
It could be that you want your warmest bathrobe and a hug from your partner.

598
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:53,840
And you know, it just having conversations with myself in the mirror and telling myself

599
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,960
exactly what I need to hear.

600
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:03,560
All of these ways to regulate your nervous system are all incredibly valid.

601
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,760
And a lot of times we see there's all these parallels.

602
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,680
If you just listen to your nervous system, it's going to tell you what it needs.

603
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:17,340
This is Wim Hof naturally stumbled upon that when he was like 13 and was like, I just need

604
00:47:17,340 --> 00:47:20,800
to get cold.

605
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:27,960
And if you can teach yourself and resource yourself and you have all of these options,

606
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:34,840
you're going to find what works for you and have a buffet of regulation tools.

607
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:35,840
Absolutely.

608
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:36,840
Yeah.

609
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,360
I mean, alcohol is where I've reached a lot.

610
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,600
And it's not that I've said this on here many, many times.

611
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:43,920
I never binge drink.

612
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,040
I never had problems sleeping and drank to sleep.

613
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:52,360
It was more habitual from partly growing up in a country where it's very, very normal.

614
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:57,520
There's pubs in every town and wine with Sunday roasts and that kind of thing.

615
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:03,560
But it was more just the quick fix, but it was subconscious because if I don't drink,

616
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,800
I actually go to sleep a lot quicker.

617
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:06,800
So it's kind of breaking that.

618
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:09,920
And I think, like you said, the more tools that you have to down regulate, I mean, I

619
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:16,600
do nighttime tea now with valerian in it or occasionally I'll do Doc Parsley sleep remedy,

620
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:23,720
which is again supplements, tryptophan, magnesium, a tiny bit of melatonin.

621
00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:27,800
It's this whole cocktail that he makes, but doing that, it works.

622
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:33,040
But like you said, if you don't have an option B, C or D, you're always going to go to easy

623
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,880
button A, your sleeping pills and your alcohol.

624
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:41,720
But the more, it's like we say with the mental health conversation too, it might be a combination

625
00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:47,640
of EMDR and equine therapy or psilocybin and cognitive behavior therapy.

626
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:53,120
But we've all got to understand that we actually have this beautiful toolbox at our disposal.

627
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:58,760
The only way though we can really learn is education, like to listen to people from all

628
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:08,920
these backgrounds, from acupuncture and chiropractic to herbalists with an H and all the tools

629
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:09,920
in the toolbox.

630
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:17,880
Yeah, and different, different areas and times in my life, I've needed different skills.

631
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:22,320
Like I find dialectical behavioral therapy incredibly helpful.

632
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:30,640
And I imagine it, uh, my like one sin it spiel on dialectical behavioral therapy is that

633
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:35,720
it's the emotional regulation skills that our parents were never able to teach us.

634
00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:38,320
It's just emotional regulation and interpersonal skills.

635
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:43,400
How to manage conflict, how to get what you want and not damage relationships.

636
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:49,240
Um, and you know, cognitive behavioral therapy really helpful until it's not.

637
00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:52,320
And then you need to somatically process things.

638
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,440
And then I do, you know, internal family systems therapy.

639
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,920
I don't know if you've ever talked about that, but I love IFS work.

640
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:01,560
It's kind of like inner child work.

641
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:06,880
Other people call it like soul retrieval in the more like hippie woo woo version.

642
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:15,120
Um, and you know, it's, it's basically that you have a whole bunch of different people

643
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:21,240
in your head that you need to have a chat with and you can integrate them and internal

644
00:50:21,240 --> 00:50:28,480
family systems therapy is really, um, an amazing practice that gives people, uh, a lot of tools.

645
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:35,360
And I think it's really important to continue to lean into an internal loci of control where

646
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:43,160
you are, are driving the ship and, um, your nervous system might be pitching a fit, but

647
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:45,000
you're in charge still.

648
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:51,100
And you're going to have a chat with them as if they're an upset child or upset adult

649
00:50:51,100 --> 00:50:53,080
or upset whatever.

650
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,560
And they're spewing at you and you're going to stay calm and be like, I'm really sorry

651
00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:58,940
that you're upset.

652
00:50:58,940 --> 00:51:00,160
What can I do for you?

653
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:06,800
Um, and having those conversations with yourself, um, is a great tool.

654
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,560
Internal family systems therapy has been something that I've leaned on a lot.

655
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:19,440
Um, herbs, cold showers, runs, um, you know, a run and a really good cry right in the middle

656
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:20,440
of it.

657
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:33,640
So, yeah, I, um, I very much appreciate all of the different phases of learning and different

658
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:40,760
nervous system, uh, different tools that I've gained through, uh, my own journey to try

659
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:47,640
to manage my PTSD and manage my own nervous systems, um, dysregulation.

660
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:54,800
Uh, and you know, I still pull from a lot of different, obviously a lot of different

661
00:51:54,800 --> 00:52:03,880
areas, not just herbs, um, to manage and handle my life and reprogramming my brain.

662
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:08,920
Well, you mentioned about the plantar fasciitis, you know, stopping you from dancing.

663
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,200
Um, I did a thing called foundation training years ago.

664
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:13,200
It's funny.

665
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,440
I just got my son doing it recently because he's been getting knee pain.

666
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,840
He's a runner knee and kind of shin pain.

667
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:21,640
Um, and it's phenomenal and it looks kind of like yoga, but it's literally you, you

668
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:27,960
do it for 10, 15 minutes and it's just these poses and it's lengthening the, uh, the muscles

669
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:32,400
that are short, but then you use your body as a cantilever to add weight to it as well.

670
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,040
So you lengthen the strength and simultaneously.

671
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,080
And I, I mean, it, it saved my career.

672
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:41,840
Um, Kelly Slater swears by Neil, uh, not Neil Armstrong, Lance Armstrong.

673
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:48,120
Um, God, I mean, so many, so many people that we know that their body is that tool.

674
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:53,440
And so one of the seminars, Eric, the founder was talking about the tragedy of plants of

675
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:59,120
fasciitis and, um, Oh my God, what's the ham one that everyone was getting the type of

676
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:00,520
carpal tunnel couple.

677
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:01,520
Thank you.

678
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,960
And people are getting sliced and diced and they weren't getting any resolution.

679
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:09,600
It turned out it was coming from, you know, shoulders, neck, spine, which is why they

680
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,720
couldn't fix it by cutting.

681
00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:16,340
Talk to me about the movement practices of anything.

682
00:53:16,340 --> 00:53:19,400
If you use to address your, your issues.

683
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:24,720
And then also again, we've talked about some of the herbs and, um, you know, the, the nervous

684
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:28,840
system now let's talk about pain management and your journey from there.

685
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,560
Ooh, this is juicy too.

686
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:34,640
Um, okay.

687
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:35,640
Let's see.

688
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:44,040
Um, so just for backstory ex dancer, um, and that same sort of push, push, push, go, go,

689
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:52,360
go mentality translated into, um, trying to repair the damage done to my feet.

690
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:56,960
Um, I also am hypermobile.

691
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:06,880
And so, um, you know, up until really recently I have this really unhealthy pattern of I'm

692
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:12,000
going to go push and work out because I'm young and I'm healthy and I'm fit and I can

693
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,600
pick up this heavy thing.

694
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:20,320
And then because I'm hypermobile, I would instantaneously hurt myself and then recovery

695
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:21,600
would take forever.

696
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:26,160
And then I'd be like, whatever, like, I'm just gonna, you know, I'm just gonna be an

697
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:28,760
old lady and walk.

698
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:37,040
Um, and I think up until really recently, I started tapping into, um, some resources

699
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,080
that I had that I was not doing a good job of utilizing.

700
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:47,900
Um, it's just like not stretching, uh, to the point where, um, to the, to the point

701
00:54:47,900 --> 00:54:55,040
that I can, um, I can put my leg up by my ear, but what good does that do?

702
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,480
And I'm just making myself even more prone to injury.

703
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:07,400
And, um, I think that simultaneous movement and stretching, but stretching, especially

704
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:14,880
when people are hypermobile, um, it, because we see with hypermobility, we end up with

705
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,960
musculoskeletal tension trying to combat the hypermobility.

706
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:22,100
And so those people are incredibly tense.

707
00:55:22,100 --> 00:55:27,420
And so I can take musculoskeletal relaxants all day and give them to hypermobile people.

708
00:55:27,420 --> 00:55:34,000
And they're like, I'm in a little bit less pain, but then their fascia is so loose that

709
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:38,000
they're even more prone to injury when they're not tense.

710
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:42,360
And their bowels are loose too.

711
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:46,120
Maybe, maybe not, you know, I don't know.

712
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:50,360
They gave it to me for my back and I think I took it for like a day or two and I was

713
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,080
like, nope, this is not going to work.

714
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:54,840
It did not have, I mean, it's all smooth muscle.

715
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:58,600
So it made my, you know, my colonic smooth muscle relax as well.

716
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:01,000
And everything that I put in came straight back out again.

717
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:02,600
Yeah, that's not a good scene.

718
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:06,860
Uh, well, and that's, you know, one of the things that's nice about herbs is it's tight.

719
00:56:06,860 --> 00:56:12,160
You can titrate your dose and there are, uh, there's, I was going to be dramatic and say

720
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:13,920
a hundred musculoskeletal relaxants.

721
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:14,920
There's a bunch of different varieties.

722
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:16,480
You can try them all day.

723
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:19,760
I have 400 herbs in my basement and bottles.

724
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:23,080
Like if one doesn't work, you just try another one.

725
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:24,080
Yeah.

726
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:28,320
So you can use muscle, you can use muscle relaxers like Kava, but it doesn't address

727
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:36,160
the fact that the muscles guarding the hyper extended tendon and the tendon that's, um,

728
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:37,160
that's tense.

729
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:39,200
And then also we have a lot of nervous system guarding.

730
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:46,000
If you do have injuries, you end up with, uh, you know, like with my feet, I walk and

731
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:50,480
carry myself completely differently.

732
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:52,880
Um, and it's the experimentation.

733
00:56:52,880 --> 00:57:00,800
If you're not simultaneously doing nervous system integration to reprogram your body

734
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:07,320
around your injury and also doing strength training with the injury, then it's really

735
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:12,600
hard to get your nervous system to be okay with not guarding it anymore.

736
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:17,280
I mean, you see it all the time, people end up, they have a ankle injury on their right

737
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:21,760
ankle and then their left knee is all screwed up and their left hip's all screwed up because

738
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:27,520
they're favoring or maybe it tilts their pelvis or whatever.

739
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:33,720
So because of my foot surgery, I ended up with a pelvic tilt to the front and then chronic

740
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:39,520
tension headaches because I was leaning forward, but trying to get my nervous system to integrate

741
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:49,400
and stop pelvic tilting literally changes how I show up emotionally, physically, how

742
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,880
I'm standing, how I'm moving, how I'm walking.

743
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:57,460
I'm guarding my ankles and if I stand differently, my brain goes, this is bad.

744
00:57:57,460 --> 00:57:58,940
You're going to get hurt.

745
00:57:58,940 --> 00:58:01,600
You're going to twist your, you're like, you're going to twist your ankle and fall over and

746
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:02,960
it's going to be bad.

747
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:10,800
And so if you're not taking into consideration slowly reprogramming your nervous system,

748
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:18,920
convincing your nervous system that that joint or injury is healed, repaired, helped and

749
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:25,160
capable of bearing full weight and full range of motion.

750
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:31,060
And then it's really difficult to get yourself to integrate that you can utilize that body

751
00:58:31,060 --> 00:58:33,880
part again.

752
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:41,880
And so yeah, so I have really leaned into kind of simultaneous like movement.

753
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:47,800
So weighted stretching, which basically what you're doing with really specific exercises

754
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:55,080
on especially for my like chronic tension headache pattern, it's been eye movement and

755
00:58:55,080 --> 00:59:03,200
doing basically like deep eye stretches and a lot of just movement of integrating my eyes

756
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,880
and my neck and my pelvis together.

757
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:13,880
And it's a lot of slow work and it's really tedious and not very dramatic.

758
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:15,040
But it's really life changing.

759
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:21,920
And I think the hard part being that when you're changing your body in a way that is

760
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:26,800
opposite of what you're used to, your nervous system can pitch a fit.

761
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:31,800
Like initially when I started doing this work, I started getting really bad vertigo.

762
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:39,000
And I think I had to call my friend for us and be like, dude, we're pushing my buttons.

763
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:40,400
Like I've got bad vertigo.

764
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:45,280
And instead of going, I don't know why that's weird.

765
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:50,860
Like he was just like, oh, yeah, just dial down what you're doing.

766
00:59:50,860 --> 00:59:55,480
Do your exercises and then tell your body not to keep the change because we have to

767
00:59:55,480 --> 01:00:00,040
dip our toe in, see how it feels, convince our nervous system that it's safe.

768
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:01,040
It's fine.

769
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:05,520
We're going to do this every day and then stand up and walk around like you normally

770
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:10,880
do completely dysfunctional and screwed up and then come back the next day.

771
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:11,880
Try it on for size.

772
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:16,920
Try on the new, the new movement, the new way of standing, the new, you know, full weight

773
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:21,560
bearing and then do the same thing and do it over and over again until your nervous

774
01:00:21,560 --> 01:00:23,760
system finally integrates.

775
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:25,400
This is actually better.

776
01:00:25,400 --> 01:00:27,760
We feel better like this.

777
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:30,840
And, and this is a good way to go.

778
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:33,320
Um, and it's more effective.

779
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:41,560
Um, coming from a herb perspective, I think some of the really, uh, this is a big, it's

780
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:43,040
a big thing.

781
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:50,320
So um, when dealing with injuries, maybe what would be the most helpful?

782
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:51,800
Oh my God.

783
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:53,640
I mean, you've everything with us.

784
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:59,760
I mean, I had, um, horrendous migraines and I don't think it was, the only thing my posture

785
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:01,440
was that I did have anterior pelvic tilt.

786
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:04,520
That's how I ended up hurting my back in the first place, lifting someone.

787
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:14,080
But um, for us it's neck, shoulders, you know, back, knees, ankles, toes, elbow.

788
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:17,680
So we need to slather y'all in sad every day.

789
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:24,360
Um, so a couple of things, um, Solomon seal, it grows pretty much anywhere.

790
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:32,200
It is an amazing herb for connective tissue and connective tissue, rehydration and connective

791
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:35,240
tissue injury in general.

792
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,840
It's hard to get, but it's easy to grow.

793
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:42,920
So um, you can pretty much get it from any garden center.

794
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:50,040
Uh, that's a little bit more niche, like more native, but, um, has more native plants.

795
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:51,040
That's what I mean.

796
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:54,920
Uh, so Solomon seal, you can make a salve or you can take it internally.

797
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:56,160
And I like doing it.

798
01:01:56,160 --> 01:02:01,440
I'll make a salve from the root and I use that topically.

799
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:07,560
My partner had a shoulder injury that he's like, I've had this for 10 years and I'm like,

800
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:08,560
okay.

801
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:12,880
So we did internal Solomon seal and then a topical Solomon seal.

802
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:16,920
And he was really dedicated three times a day, two droppers full, and then put the salve

803
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:18,640
on once or twice a day.

804
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:20,480
And in about three weeks he was fine.

805
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,840
I mean, that wasn't a super severe injury.

806
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:25,880
Um, and he's pretty active.

807
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:32,280
Um, one of the biggest problems I see is repetitive use injuries, which I'm imagining is pretty

808
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:36,440
common in the field where you have one thing that you're doing a lot.

809
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:41,240
You you're, you know, get injured and then you just have to keep doing it.

810
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:47,700
Um, and so, uh, Solomon seal internally and topically is really one of my favorites.

811
01:02:47,700 --> 01:02:52,180
Another one that I talk about a lot, that's also kind of hard to get is cross-fine.

812
01:02:52,180 --> 01:02:53,940
It's big Nonia capriolata.

813
01:02:53,940 --> 01:02:56,080
That one also is easy to grow.

814
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:58,960
Um, but a tincture of cross-fine.

815
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:03,800
And I think actually this is how we ended up connecting because I was posting about

816
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:09,000
how I use cross-fine in people that have burnout.

817
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:13,880
And a lot of, I'll see this a lot in care providers of any kind and first responders

818
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:20,560
where there's shift work or, um, like just high traffic where you don't eat enough, you

819
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:25,680
don't pee enough, you don't drink enough, you don't sleep enough and you end up with

820
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:33,200
burnout and a lot of times this deep fatigue, I think is some of it, some of it comes from

821
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:40,000
just not getting enough nutrients and not being hydrated enough because in your connective

822
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:45,800
tissue, the way that your connective tissue communicates is basically just, it's just

823
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:46,800
fluid.

824
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:52,320
It's all fluid in there and if your connective tissue ends up hard and crunchy, kind of like

825
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:56,680
imagine a plant that you get from Walmart and that's on the discount rack and you take

826
01:03:56,680 --> 01:04:01,560
it home and you put water in the top of it and then it just all drips out and you're

827
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:09,760
not actually actually deeply hydrating the tissue or the, you know, the plant, the soil,

828
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:10,760
whatever.

829
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:14,760
When you get to a certain state of dryness, it can be really hard to rehydrate.

830
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:22,440
And so, um, I use cross vine and rehydration salts, which I think are super important,

831
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:27,960
um, to help to rehydrate connective tissue.

832
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:34,360
Um, and I, you know, your whole body is basically connective tissue.

833
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:40,280
So if you get dehydrated in your soft tissues and they don't get direct blood flow, you

834
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:45,560
get like, it's just intercellular fluid that's leaking out from your cardiovascular system

835
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:48,960
into your, into your body to regulate your fluid balance.

836
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:54,520
So it's, it can be one of the things that like I really lean on cross vine for to help

837
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:58,940
rehydrate connective tissue, especially if you're seeing a lot of connective tissue issues

838
01:04:58,940 --> 01:05:04,900
where people are popping, popping, creaking and the pop is not like a thud pop.

839
01:05:04,900 --> 01:05:06,400
It's like a crack pop.

840
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:07,840
Does that make sense?

841
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:08,840
Yeah, it does.

842
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:09,840
Absolutely.

843
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:13,320
Your knee is like, it doesn't thud when it pops, it cracks.

844
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,000
And that means it's too dry.

845
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,280
Your connective tissue is dry.

846
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:20,240
And so it, it has a cracky sound.

847
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:26,480
And so if you're seeing, you know, if you're very cracky and like dry and you feel like

848
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:31,160
you're drinking, but it's not going in, rehydration salts and cross vine are amazing.

849
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:34,240
And cross vines really neat adaptogen because it takes three days.

850
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:37,360
A lot of adaptogens take up to two weeks to start working.

851
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:41,600
But cross vine works in about three days and you just start to feel like you have more

852
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:42,600
energy.

853
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:47,720
And to me, I think it literally is just helping yourselves communicate better.

854
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:53,800
You're getting better fluid exchange, better exchange of toxins out nutrients in.

855
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:57,720
If you're not fully hydrated, that can't happen.

856
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:01,040
So those are two really helpful ones that I lean on.

857
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:04,940
I like doing topicals.

858
01:06:04,940 --> 01:06:10,160
So we kind of have like, I think a lot of people forget and maybe first responders are

859
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:16,680
better because they're more medically inclined, but we have pain caused by inflammation and

860
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:20,780
we have pain that's signals that's telling us to stop.

861
01:06:20,780 --> 01:06:27,440
And so when we have an injury, we want to address both.

862
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:34,840
And so I like using, and then also we kind of has the simultaneous musculoskeletal tension

863
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:39,080
that can be causing extra and additional pain.

864
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:41,760
That's just from guarding.

865
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:46,280
And so if you're not addressing all three, then you're not going to see, especially if

866
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:52,460
you're doing like physical therapy and you're helping to rewire your nervous system.

867
01:06:52,460 --> 01:06:56,800
If you're still inflamed, you're not dealing with pain and you've got a guarding musculoskeletal

868
01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:00,740
guarding then, and you're not addressing those, then it can be really hard to recover.

869
01:07:00,740 --> 01:07:05,520
So utilizing the same herbs I talked about earlier at Lobelia and Cava for the musculoskeletal

870
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:06,520
guarding.

871
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:13,480
I do like using anti-inflammatories, herbal anti-inflammatories, particularly buswellia

872
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:20,160
or buswellic acid instead of utilizing an NSAID because it is really hard on your mucosal

873
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:22,480
membranes.

874
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:28,320
And so I like using buswellia and buswellic acid and then the long range immune and inflammation

875
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:35,880
pathways I like really lean on high dose fish oil and then higher dose ginger and higher

876
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:42,720
dose turmeric with black pepper and doing some type of combination of that to help with,

877
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:48,880
especially if we've got dysfunctional inflammatory pathways due to chronic stress or chronic

878
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:52,720
inflammation or chronically poor diet.

879
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:57,580
Then we want to work on all of that also, but that's kind of my...

880
01:07:57,580 --> 01:08:00,800
And then pain, which you want to talk about pain?

881
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:02,400
Yeah, let's do it.

882
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:03,400
Okay.

883
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:10,040
So it's a whole thing, but so it's...

884
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:16,880
One of the things that I think is really important is looking at chronic pain and how we can

885
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:24,040
no longer have a physical injury, but our nervous system due to how a lot of times,

886
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:29,320
and the research is pretty clear about this, when you experience said traumatic event,

887
01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:33,840
if you don't feel emotionally supported during that event, you're way more likely to have

888
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:35,480
chronic pain.

889
01:08:35,480 --> 01:08:40,440
There's also a correlation between being a perfectionist and being really hard on yourself

890
01:08:40,440 --> 01:08:43,960
about an injury causing chronic pain.

891
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:50,400
And then in my own case, I see this happen frequently with my own pain where I can get

892
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:56,400
in the same nervous system state as I was when I had my foot surgery and the injury

893
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:57,520
and all of that.

894
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:02,280
I can feel trapped and I'll have a pain flare.

895
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:05,520
And your brain has learned to be in pain.

896
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:09,040
And I really love utilizing...

897
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:10,040
There's this great app.

898
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:12,040
I'm going to forget it.

899
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:14,880
Oh no, what is it called?

900
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:17,040
I'm going to have to message it to you.

901
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:19,840
I've forgotten it.

902
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:24,640
I used it for a long time, but it's basically brain retraining.

903
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:27,800
It's brain training around pain.

904
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:33,080
Because a lot of what we struggle with when we're in chronic pain syndromes is a fear

905
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:38,960
of the pain, the judgment of the pain, the wishing we weren't in pain, the emotional

906
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:41,520
states connected to the pain.

907
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:47,840
We've just created another neurological super highway pathway for pain.

908
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:51,760
And every time we get in this emotional state, we go down it.

909
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,360
Every time it hurts a little bit more, we go down it.

910
01:09:54,360 --> 01:10:00,160
And so we basically have trained our brain to be in pain.

911
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:06,040
And so a lot of what this particular app does and why I love it so much is it's reprogramming

912
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:13,760
your ideas, perception, and mindset around pain.

913
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:20,000
And also it takes a very much a growth mindset approach where it's like, I'm in pain right

914
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:21,200
now.

915
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:22,600
It really sucks.

916
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:25,000
Or even using humor.

917
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:30,080
One of the tools they give you is instead of saying, I'm in pain, you rename your pain

918
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:31,080
a funny word.

919
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:35,480
And you're like, I've got a lot of banana today.

920
01:10:35,480 --> 01:10:37,480
Just something that doesn't make any sense.

921
01:10:37,480 --> 01:10:42,480
So that you're connecting humor.

922
01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:44,480
So I'll have to remember the app.

923
01:10:44,480 --> 01:10:46,080
But it's a great one.

924
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:53,000
And I've used it a lot right when I was sort of figuring out I was in chronic pain to help.

925
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:58,320
And then I'm hesitant to talk about pain management because I don't know if people will be able

926
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:01,240
to resource the herbs that I want to talk about.

927
01:11:01,240 --> 01:11:06,040
So I'm going to talk about herbs that are widely available.

928
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:14,800
So some of the ones that I use especially for.

929
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:20,160
OK so when you're dealing with pain, you want to be addressing the same things that I was

930
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:21,640
talking about where we're talking about.

931
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:23,400
We want to do anti-inflammatories.

932
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:26,120
We want to do nerve pain.

933
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:32,200
And then sometimes we want to do things that help to help us block the pain from a nervous

934
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:33,680
system standpoint.

935
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:42,440
So I like doing HAVA and Lobelia for musculoskeletal relaxant to help with the guarding that comes

936
01:11:42,440 --> 01:11:47,000
with pain that causes pain exacerbation and helps with some of that stopping that feedback

937
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,800
loop that happens with the brain where we're like, we're in pain.

938
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:51,040
We need to guard.

939
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:52,040
We're hurting more.

940
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:53,280
We're in pain.

941
01:11:53,280 --> 01:11:57,040
You can sort of insert the musculoskeletal relaxants in there.

942
01:11:57,040 --> 01:12:02,400
And then it kind of helps you to be like, OK, we're hurting but it's manageable and

943
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:05,840
we're not getting a lot of this guarding.

944
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:11,120
The other thing that I really love is a plant called Cori Dallas.

945
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:12,120
You can get it.

946
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:13,760
It's a Chinese herb.

947
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:18,080
One of my favorite ways to get it is dehydrated powder.

948
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:20,880
So it's an extract powdered.

949
01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:24,200
So Cori Dallas is amazing.

950
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:28,960
Cori Dallas Yonhuso is the Chinese like on the Chinese herb market.

951
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:31,480
That's what you would look for.

952
01:12:31,480 --> 01:12:37,680
And it just helps turn the volume down on pain.

953
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:39,600
And I'll use it for menstrual cramping.

954
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:42,760
I'll use it for chronic physical pain.

955
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:44,680
There's no reason not to take it every day.

956
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:45,960
It's really gentle.

957
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:47,840
I also use a lot.

958
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:54,700
Jamaican dogwood is really helpful with pain.

959
01:12:54,700 --> 01:12:57,880
And then I like skull cap a lot for pain.

960
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:03,040
Oddly enough, skull cap is more indicative to the nervous system and calming elevated

961
01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:07,140
nervous system states and over excited nerves.

962
01:13:07,140 --> 01:13:12,680
But chronic pain and pain in general is over excited nervous tissue.

963
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:16,280
Like your nerve is over firing.

964
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:22,280
And it's hyper excited and more sensitive.

965
01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:30,320
And so I like using skull cap on a daily basis as an adaptogen nerve tonic because it'll

966
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:31,480
turn down.

967
01:13:31,480 --> 01:13:35,980
It will help to suppress some of that nerve over excitability.

968
01:13:35,980 --> 01:13:42,680
And then the nerve is not so inclined to be like, oh, like, you know, maybe you have a

969
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:47,120
shoulder injury and it only comes up when this certain movement happens.

970
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:51,040
But then you have to do that movement regularly.

971
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:57,200
And it's an emotional, you know, physiological combination of things that's causing this

972
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:58,880
pain.

973
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:07,120
If we can kind of turn down the volume on your reactivity, then we can sort of another.

974
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:15,160
It's another point where we can reinsert a different way of relating to it by changing

975
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:23,160
how your brain is assessing the entire situation and it will change how much pain your brain

976
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:28,160
decides to make you be in.

977
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:34,840
So yeah, another thing that came up was it seems like nerve pain is a really common one.

978
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:42,760
And you know, we hear a lot about St. John's wort for depression, but it's hit or miss,

979
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:43,960
whether it works or not.

980
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:47,800
But really where St. John's wort shines is nerve pain.

981
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:50,440
It's amazing for nerve pain.

982
01:14:50,440 --> 01:14:57,020
So if somebody has really and I use it for nerve regrowth also.

983
01:14:57,020 --> 01:15:00,040
So you know, a lot of times like I had nerve damage.

984
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:02,500
So part of my leg was just numb for years.

985
01:15:02,500 --> 01:15:05,820
And when you start to regrow nerve tissue, it hurts.

986
01:15:05,820 --> 01:15:09,160
It's like prickly, tingly, weird.

987
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:15,080
And nerve pain in general can be prickly, can feel like you've got a burn, can feel

988
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:18,800
stabbing, which I have experienced all of those things.

989
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:26,280
But St. John's wort really, really lovely fresh St. John's wort tincture internally

990
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:31,120
for nerve pain and for helping to regenerate nervous nerve tissue.

991
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:34,400
And then also I love it topically.

992
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:38,880
So you have to be careful with using it internally because it up regulates the cytochrome P450

993
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:43,680
pathway, which is the pathway that a lot of medications go through.

994
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:50,200
So you would up regulate how quickly you extract excrete your birth control or, you know, your

995
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:51,200
thyroid med.

996
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:58,280
So it's not good to use internally if you're on a bunch of other medications, but you can

997
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:00,520
also use it in turn topically.

998
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:04,720
You get fresh St. John's wort oil and I've used it.

999
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:07,840
I had one particular case that was pretty dramatic.

1000
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:14,680
He had lost feeling in his toes over time from an injury and we started doing Lyons

1001
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:21,060
main and St. John's wort internally and MCT oil and other things that you need to grow

1002
01:16:21,060 --> 01:16:22,680
nervous tissue.

1003
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:26,080
And then also did a topical of St. John's wort.

1004
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:30,360
And he was like, called me in a couple of weeks, like a nerve tissue takes a long time.

1005
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:36,580
These are long term protocols that you have to do for like a year to two years.

1006
01:16:36,580 --> 01:16:40,880
But he called me in a couple of weeks and was like, it's tingling and feels all weird.

1007
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:42,880
And I was like, well, we're doing it.

1008
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:44,960
It's working.

1009
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:49,920
So I think we didn't really talk about that, but I'm sure you've talked about it with maybe

1010
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:55,460
the use of psilocybin and maybe Lyons main to help regrow nervous tissue quicker and

1011
01:16:55,460 --> 01:16:59,280
reprogram your brain more quickly.

1012
01:16:59,280 --> 01:17:04,560
But that's another thing that's really neat that you can utilize herbs for in trying to

1013
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:15,920
rewire their brain involving pathways of chronic trauma or coping strategies that were maladaptive

1014
01:17:15,920 --> 01:17:19,140
that you're trying to, you know, appear away from.

1015
01:17:19,140 --> 01:17:24,480
If you're doing psilocybin microdosing and Lyons main and high dose B vitamins, then

1016
01:17:24,480 --> 01:17:30,320
you're really going to be priming your pump for helping to reintegrate change much more

1017
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:32,720
quickly.

1018
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:34,700
And so that's really useful.

1019
01:17:34,700 --> 01:17:41,200
And that also goes for regrowing like nerve pain, like nerve pain, nervous tissue or pain

1020
01:17:41,200 --> 01:17:43,080
signaling pathways.

1021
01:17:43,080 --> 01:17:48,720
Anytime that we're trying to regrow nerves and or change nervous system pathways, which

1022
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:55,600
is growing new nerves, then we want to be utilizing those as as options.

1023
01:17:55,600 --> 01:17:56,600
Did that help?

1024
01:17:56,600 --> 01:17:57,600
No, it did.

1025
01:17:57,600 --> 01:18:00,840
What I was thinking is, I mean, you've gone through so many different things, which is

1026
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:02,640
phenomenal.

1027
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:05,000
Somewhere on my bookshelf, I'm just looking now.

1028
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:09,040
I know I have I bought a book on basically plant medicine.

1029
01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:11,200
I don't know where it is at the moment or who wrote it.

1030
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:16,960
But for people listening, what are some of the publications or sites?

1031
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:19,720
I mean, obviously, we'll get to your your site as well.

1032
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:23,720
But what are some of the Bibles in your opinion for people to actually have this at their

1033
01:18:23,720 --> 01:18:28,240
fingertips?

1034
01:18:28,240 --> 01:18:34,400
One by Kerry, Kerry Boone.

1035
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:36,400
He wrote.

1036
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:42,520
Principles and practice of phytotherapy.

1037
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:46,840
I've got a great one.

1038
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:53,320
Medical herbalism by David Hoffman is a fabulous book.

1039
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:56,480
These are more like.

1040
01:18:56,480 --> 01:19:04,160
Basically I'm kind of a science based in case you haven't gathered science based herbalist

1041
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:12,540
with a lot of there's a lot of kind of framing and scaffolding for my training and how I

1042
01:19:12,540 --> 01:19:14,360
relate to the body and herbs.

1043
01:19:14,360 --> 01:19:19,280
And those are the two books that are the most helpful in getting your bearings on how to

1044
01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:25,420
not use herbs like pharmaceuticals and how to think about herbal medicine in a way that

1045
01:19:25,420 --> 01:19:29,600
becomes helpful for you rapidly.

1046
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:38,240
I also really like Jill Stansberry wrote a great a great set of books.

1047
01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:44,260
It's herbal formularies for health professionals, which honestly just cuts to the chase like

1048
01:19:44,260 --> 01:19:45,300
she's great.

1049
01:19:45,300 --> 01:19:48,680
So and she has I'm actually looking at right now.

1050
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:55,400
She's got one for there's like five volumes, but there's one for the cardiovascular system,

1051
01:19:55,400 --> 01:20:01,000
one for the nervous system, one for pain, one for the digestion.

1052
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:04,580
So like you can kind of focus on whatever you're struggling with and go to that.

1053
01:20:04,580 --> 01:20:09,460
And she gives you formulas.

1054
01:20:09,460 --> 01:20:13,560
Another really great one that's kind of a deep cut a little bit is the King's American

1055
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:15,160
Dispensatory.

1056
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:22,620
So at the turn of the century, before we had the AMA, the American Medical Association,

1057
01:20:22,620 --> 01:20:30,160
we had what were called the eclectic physicians and they were physician pharmacists herbalists.

1058
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:35,240
And they did amazing research and were really great about talking to each other as clinicians

1059
01:20:35,240 --> 01:20:36,880
and compiling information.

1060
01:20:36,880 --> 01:20:43,360
And so the King's American Dispensatory is kind of their penultimate herbal gelling of

1061
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:45,040
knowledge.

1062
01:20:45,040 --> 01:20:48,120
And I use that one a lot.

1063
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:50,680
I also really love Thomas Easley.

1064
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:54,280
He is my second herb teacher.

1065
01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:58,200
He runs the Eclectic School of Herbal Medicine.

1066
01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:05,600
And then, yeah, those are some of the like kingpins of herbalism.

1067
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:07,580
So yeah.

1068
01:21:07,580 --> 01:21:12,440
When you look at the history of herbalism, obviously it was something that we were doing

1069
01:21:12,440 --> 01:21:15,040
pretty much since the dawn of man and woman.

1070
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:16,040
Yeah.

1071
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:18,960
You know, in every culture around the world, you know, I mean, we're focusing more now

1072
01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:22,560
on ayahuasca and some of these ancient ceremonies.

1073
01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:27,040
But if you look at herbs and tinctures and, God, what's that, poultices and all these

1074
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:31,200
things, you know, they go back, you know, thousands of years.

1075
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:39,000
What does your community identify as when there was that shift where all of a sudden

1076
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:44,640
you were labeled woo woo and, you know, unresearched and all these things that we've seen so much

1077
01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:52,120
opposition for the holistic medicine professions to have to fight against to finally, I think

1078
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:57,280
there's a paradigm shift now, finally get back to where we are again, where, you know,

1079
01:21:57,280 --> 01:22:03,580
the thousand years of wisdom is being accepted because there was a real arrogance to some

1080
01:22:03,580 --> 01:22:04,700
modern medicine.

1081
01:22:04,700 --> 01:22:08,920
And sadly, I think it was deliberate because it was about money.

1082
01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:11,480
And there are some great, great modern medicines as a paramedic.

1083
01:22:11,480 --> 01:22:12,800
I've used them to save lives.

1084
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:17,880
I would not want to have surgery without anesthetic, you know, et cetera, et cetera.

1085
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:24,000
But chronic disease management, whether it's hypertension, diabetes, even cancer, I would

1086
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:27,320
argue that, you know, we don't they don't work.

1087
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:28,720
They don't work very well at all.

1088
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:30,320
And people spend a huge amount of money.

1089
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:35,760
And as you said, a huge disservice is when someone is suffering and they can't afford

1090
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:39,280
the modern medicine version of what they're told is the cure.

1091
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:40,280
Right.

1092
01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:41,280
Yeah.

1093
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:45,520
And I mean, I think it's one of those things where you get into it and you're not really

1094
01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:50,120
sure what what rabbit hole you should go down.

1095
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:59,040
Like obviously we have the witch hunts, which is the European like basically this idea that

1096
01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:08,580
women were witches and and anyone practicing herbalism was talking to and or communing

1097
01:23:08,580 --> 01:23:16,920
with the devil and that we should all be looking to God to cure our illnesses and that and

1098
01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:21,940
the church and you know, you could look to that.

1099
01:23:21,940 --> 01:23:33,080
You could look to, you know, there's a conspiracy theory around like the advent of modern chemistry

1100
01:23:33,080 --> 01:23:40,040
and there, you know, it's just a chasing the money.

1101
01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:42,320
I don't really know.

1102
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:48,040
There's also a kind of a discussion around land rights.

1103
01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:54,800
So you know, you have to have access to land in order to make medicine in order to have

1104
01:23:54,800 --> 01:23:57,240
medicine, grow medicine.

1105
01:23:57,240 --> 01:24:04,960
And so it can be a, you know, it's thought to possibly be a control tactic that, you

1106
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:07,880
know, we don't want people to know how to take care of themselves.

1107
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:16,720
But I mean, the other thing is it's an odd it's an odd construct to.

1108
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:23,160
And I see this a lot where we have a weird Western construct that herbs will kill you

1109
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:29,480
or they're completely ineffective, which is a thing that I'll run into a lot.

1110
01:24:29,480 --> 01:24:33,620
Like I'll be getting really great results with a client and they'll go to their doctor

1111
01:24:33,620 --> 01:24:35,940
and their doctor will be like, don't take that.

1112
01:24:35,940 --> 01:24:38,040
Like it doesn't work or don't take that.

1113
01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:39,400
It's going to hurt you.

1114
01:24:39,400 --> 01:24:44,540
Well, I'm not going to tell my client to get off of what you've put them on.

1115
01:24:44,540 --> 01:24:52,360
Like you probably shouldn't tell the client to get off of what I put them on.

1116
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:58,820
And it's an odd thing also to be where we're animals.

1117
01:24:58,820 --> 01:25:07,840
And we like to think we're not, but it's real odd to think that like outside is is home

1118
01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:18,880
and we we're from outside and we get our food from outside and look, we we are supposed

1119
01:25:18,880 --> 01:25:26,640
to be living close to the land and eating off of like hunting a squirrel for dinner

1120
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:32,240
and, you know, making tea when I'm sick with the stuff in my yard and a salad from the

1121
01:25:32,240 --> 01:25:33,240
weeds.

1122
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:37,400
And so it's kind of an odd.

1123
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:43,800
It's very much a weird Twilight Zone moment for me quite often when people are think that

1124
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:52,360
what I do is very interesting or or they think that I'm just some kitchen witch.

1125
01:25:52,360 --> 01:26:01,120
When you know, a lot of pharmaceuticals were phytochemically derived a hundred years ago.

1126
01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:06,120
We eat and utilize medicines all the time, like coffee.

1127
01:26:06,120 --> 01:26:08,760
You can't argue with me that coffee.

1128
01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:13,600
It's not a stimulant and that's pharmacologically active.

1129
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:15,560
Ginger is warming.

1130
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:16,960
It's great for digestion.

1131
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:23,600
We use herbs all the time, but as soon as we, you know, start to think about them in

1132
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:31,120
this context that they are safe, effective, helpful.

1133
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:35,640
I don't do anything different than a pharmacist.

1134
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:42,540
We're both pushing pharmacological buttons inside a human being to help them feel better.

1135
01:26:42,540 --> 01:26:45,200
We're doing exactly the same thing.

1136
01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:47,200
My toolkits different.

1137
01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:52,520
There's a propensity for side effects with my toolkit, just like there's a and there's

1138
01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:55,240
a higher propensity for side effects with their toolkit.

1139
01:26:55,240 --> 01:27:02,360
I was going to say, does your herbs have, you know, like your herbs for mood have warnings

1140
01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:04,440
that may cause suicide ideation?

1141
01:27:04,440 --> 01:27:06,120
I mean, that's what blows my mind.

1142
01:27:06,120 --> 01:27:10,200
You're taking a pill for some sort of positive mental health outlook.

1143
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:13,200
And they're like, oh, by the way, you might off yourself when you take this med.

1144
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:16,240
That doesn't seem like it's a very effective medication then.

1145
01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:17,240
Let's be honest.

1146
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:18,240
Yeah.

1147
01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:23,660
I think some of when we're dealing with mental health, I think one piece where herbalism

1148
01:27:23,660 --> 01:27:29,840
really shines is it gives you the control.

1149
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:33,320
I don't need an antidepressant every day.

1150
01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:38,120
I need an antidepressant when I feel really bad and when I'm having a hard time getting

1151
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:44,480
out of bed and when I need to play neurological whack-a-mole and I can take mimosa as an SSRI

1152
01:27:44,480 --> 01:27:46,800
today in the next day.

1153
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:51,960
And maybe I just need it in the morning because once I remind my brain that life is good,

1154
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:54,280
we're happy, everything's okay.

1155
01:27:54,280 --> 01:27:58,880
Like we're going to take this other neurological pathway that we've worked, we're working

1156
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:00,960
on that feels good.

1157
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:03,720
We're going to do that, not over there.

1158
01:28:03,720 --> 01:28:06,520
And maybe I only need it for a couple of days.

1159
01:28:06,520 --> 01:28:13,320
Maybe I only need it for a season when after a loss or a traumatic event, but you can't

1160
01:28:13,320 --> 01:28:15,280
do that with a lot of pharmaceuticals.

1161
01:28:15,280 --> 01:28:18,640
You can't do it based on the day.

1162
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:19,640
It's not safe.

1163
01:28:19,640 --> 01:28:23,280
But the other thing is like mimosa is an SSRI.

1164
01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:27,500
And if you take it three times a day, every day for three months, you're going to have

1165
01:28:27,500 --> 01:28:30,440
to wean off of it.

1166
01:28:30,440 --> 01:28:33,300
But guess who's in charge of that?

1167
01:28:33,300 --> 01:28:35,000
You are.

1168
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:37,680
And you're taking it in a liquid form.

1169
01:28:37,680 --> 01:28:39,700
So you get to titrate your dosage.

1170
01:28:39,700 --> 01:28:44,560
You can decide that, oh, my nervous system is really well acquainted with how this herb

1171
01:28:44,560 --> 01:28:46,220
makes me feel.

1172
01:28:46,220 --> 01:28:52,500
And it is, but it's, it's the way that I can get to that state.

1173
01:28:52,500 --> 01:28:54,460
Maybe I don't need two droppers full anymore.

1174
01:28:54,460 --> 01:28:56,880
I don't need a pharmacologically active dose.

1175
01:28:56,880 --> 01:28:59,200
I need a neurologically active.

1176
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:04,180
I need a dose that will remind my body, Hey, you remember that taste that we've associated

1177
01:29:04,180 --> 01:29:08,800
with this neurological pathway over here in this biochemistry, we're going to take one

1178
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:12,800
drop of that mimosa, taste it.

1179
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:18,560
And then our brain will go, Oh yeah, we know how to do that and do it.

1180
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:25,020
You don't necessarily like when you're dealing with liquid herbs, you can dose them.

1181
01:29:25,020 --> 01:29:30,300
You can train your body with them and then dose them by the drop, which is not pharmacologically

1182
01:29:30,300 --> 01:29:31,560
active anymore.

1183
01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:36,480
It's just, you've trained yourself to know how to get there with the herb and it's helped

1184
01:29:36,480 --> 01:29:38,840
you learn how to do that.

1185
01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:43,400
So I think, yeah, there are plenty of side effects with herbs.

1186
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:48,240
And one of the things that I do often with clinical appointments is I ended up helping

1187
01:29:48,240 --> 01:29:55,840
people who have misinformed, uneducated, accidental mess ups with herbal medicine.

1188
01:29:55,840 --> 01:30:00,400
Like it's not, I have a story that I tell quite frequently about a woman who had tanned

1189
01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:01,640
her bladder.

1190
01:30:01,640 --> 01:30:06,800
She was 70 going to see, she was incontinent, had been going to see her urologist, wasn't

1191
01:30:06,800 --> 01:30:08,520
getting results, came to see me.

1192
01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:10,480
I did an intake in the first couple of minutes.

1193
01:30:10,480 --> 01:30:13,960
I asked her what she was drinking and she was primarily drinking only green and black

1194
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:16,200
tea, which are highly tannic.

1195
01:30:16,200 --> 01:30:18,520
And she basically just tanned her bladder.

1196
01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:22,280
And I mean, I immediately was like, no more black and green tea.

1197
01:30:22,280 --> 01:30:27,960
Here's some really goopy, mucilaginous herbs and healing things to help get the elasticity

1198
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:28,960
back in your bladder.

1199
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:35,040
And within a couple of weeks she was continent and holding urine and like quick and easy.

1200
01:30:35,040 --> 01:30:42,480
And so, you know, when, whenever we take a hard line and we try to tell everyone what

1201
01:30:42,480 --> 01:30:49,080
they should be doing, all the, you know, every pregnant woman should be taking red clothe,

1202
01:30:49,080 --> 01:30:52,600
red raspberry, like all pregnant women.

1203
01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:55,780
Well, like I can't do that.

1204
01:30:55,780 --> 01:30:56,780
It's too drying.

1205
01:30:56,780 --> 01:30:57,780
It makes me uncomfortable.

1206
01:30:57,780 --> 01:30:59,440
It makes my skin dry.

1207
01:30:59,440 --> 01:31:00,440
It makes my hair dry.

1208
01:31:00,440 --> 01:31:01,440
I don't feel good.

1209
01:31:01,440 --> 01:31:04,200
I feel itchy and weird.

1210
01:31:04,200 --> 01:31:07,560
And like, if you do that with herbs, it's going to do the same thing.

1211
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:15,660
You have to take that herb, feel how it feels, watch for side effects, watch for contraindications,

1212
01:31:15,660 --> 01:31:18,160
watch for just constitution, watch for allergies.

1213
01:31:18,160 --> 01:31:19,600
You can have an allergic reaction.

1214
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:24,480
I made a formulation for a friend who was having a Crohn's flare and it turns out, and

1215
01:31:24,480 --> 01:31:31,440
I would, I put peach in their formula because peach is very cooling and a great, um, it

1216
01:31:31,440 --> 01:31:34,280
helps to decrease inflammation locally.

1217
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:37,120
And turns out the person was allergic to peach.

1218
01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:42,640
So needless to say, we did not get the therapeutic results we wanted, but the other thing is

1219
01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:44,240
like, that's okay.

1220
01:31:44,240 --> 01:31:50,320
I have 150 other plants we can play around with and utilize to try to help you and figure

1221
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:51,320
it out.

1222
01:31:51,320 --> 01:31:57,840
It's basically an herbalism is, is special is genetically specialized medicine.

1223
01:31:57,840 --> 01:31:59,800
It's it's specialized medicine.

1224
01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:01,640
Everybody loves to talk about that.

1225
01:32:01,640 --> 01:32:05,560
How, how we're going to have AI models and everything's going to be so specialized.

1226
01:32:05,560 --> 01:32:09,160
Well, we've, we've had that toolkit for a long time.

1227
01:32:09,160 --> 01:32:15,800
Um, and, and really it's just trying things out, being exposed to different herbs and

1228
01:32:15,800 --> 01:32:20,400
then know and feeling how they feel and seeing what happens for us.

1229
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:23,480
And if the, if the outcome is therapeutic, awesome.

1230
01:32:23,480 --> 01:32:28,000
If the outcome is that that herb is not for you, then now you know.

1231
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:35,400
Um, and so, you know, I think, I think it's a weird, it is kind of a weird paradigm to

1232
01:32:35,400 --> 01:32:40,880
be flying under the radar as an unlicensed practitioner and have such a great toolkit,

1233
01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:44,520
um, that I wish were given more credibility.

1234
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:48,740
Um, but you know, we're, we're working on it.

1235
01:32:48,740 --> 01:32:50,000
It's getting a little better.

1236
01:32:50,000 --> 01:32:52,200
We're having conversation at a time.

1237
01:32:52,200 --> 01:32:53,200
Absolutely.

1238
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:55,760
Well, I'm sure people listening are intrigued.

1239
01:32:55,760 --> 01:32:59,960
I mean, I'm going to dive in because even when you talk about drying, I've always had

1240
01:32:59,960 --> 01:33:00,960
dry skin.

1241
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:03,040
Um, and this is an area that I've loved.

1242
01:33:03,040 --> 01:33:07,320
I found collagen is a great, great supplement for me as found it somewhat recently.

1243
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:11,160
It works really well, obviously hydration as well, but, uh, you know, that's something

1244
01:33:11,160 --> 01:33:13,000
I want to look into myself.

1245
01:33:13,000 --> 01:33:17,800
So where, where can people find you, your website and you on social media?

1246
01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:18,800
Yeah.

1247
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:25,440
So pretty much all my handles are at deep roots herb school and my website is deep roots

1248
01:33:25,440 --> 01:33:27,440
herb school.com.

1249
01:33:27,440 --> 01:33:34,080
And primarily I teach, so I try to teach an herb walk once a month for local people.

1250
01:33:34,080 --> 01:33:40,520
Um, I teach, uh, a subscription kit where I teach people about one herb per month.

1251
01:33:40,520 --> 01:33:45,400
So I send them a package with multiple different types of preparations of the same herb so

1252
01:33:45,400 --> 01:33:50,680
that they can feel what it feels like and learn about it in depth.

1253
01:33:50,680 --> 01:33:52,200
Because I think that's the best way to do it.

1254
01:33:52,200 --> 01:33:57,640
Um, I think somatic integration of knowledge and experiencing them at the same time is

1255
01:33:57,640 --> 01:33:59,560
just, it's the way to do it.

1256
01:33:59,560 --> 01:34:04,040
So I have that program and then I teach a foraging and medicine making intensive.

1257
01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:07,160
Um, and those are kind of my primary projects.

1258
01:34:07,160 --> 01:34:15,240
Uh, and so that's, you can find me on all of the, all the socials and, um, and yeah.

1259
01:34:15,240 --> 01:34:16,240
Beautiful.

1260
01:34:16,240 --> 01:34:17,240
We're just on, on the foraging.

1261
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:18,920
We didn't really get into that.

1262
01:34:18,920 --> 01:34:19,920
Yeah.

1263
01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:24,120
How many of the, it doesn't even have to be the ones we talked about, but how prevalent

1264
01:34:24,120 --> 01:34:29,440
are a lot of these medicines in, for example, Alabama or Florida, if people went into the

1265
01:34:29,440 --> 01:34:31,000
woods today.

1266
01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:39,840
So all of the plants that I mentioned, uh, except for Kava are very commonly widespread

1267
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:42,160
in the Southeast, uh, U S.

1268
01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:52,080
Um, so, you know, up to like pass North Carolina into Virginia and then, um, you know, Tennessee

1269
01:34:52,080 --> 01:34:53,080
and above.

1270
01:34:53,080 --> 01:34:59,480
Um, and then Kava pretty much exclusively, you can grow Kava in Florida, um, but commonly

1271
01:34:59,480 --> 01:35:06,720
grown in more tropical areas that Hawaii has a lot of Kava and Kava farms, but you can

1272
01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:10,480
grow Kava in, um, in Florida.

1273
01:35:10,480 --> 01:35:14,760
Uh, and then, you know, the internet is a wonderful thing.

1274
01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:19,360
So you pretty much can buy, you can access a lot of what I've talked about today.

1275
01:35:19,360 --> 01:35:21,680
Crossfine will be harder to access.

1276
01:35:21,680 --> 01:35:29,400
Um, but, um, you know, the botanical names, big Nonia, Capri, Aleta, and then passion

1277
01:35:29,400 --> 01:35:32,520
flower highly available on the herb market.

1278
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:38,360
If you're interested in Gabon Ergic herbs, um, and some other herbs that are Gabon Ergic

1279
01:35:38,360 --> 01:35:43,920
that it might be easier to find or fun to play around with are also motherwort and,

1280
01:35:43,920 --> 01:35:48,800
um, blue vervein are also both Gabon Ergic and they just hit different for different

1281
01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:49,800
people.

1282
01:35:49,800 --> 01:35:56,680
So, um, m-m-motherwort tends to feel like you're getting a hug from your mom.

1283
01:35:56,680 --> 01:36:01,520
When she has warts.

1284
01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:06,720
And then blue vervein is really specifically indicated for stiff necked overachievers with

1285
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:12,480
facial ticks and twitches and with a lot of tension in their head, neck and shoulders

1286
01:36:12,480 --> 01:36:14,800
and tend to be overly cerebral.

1287
01:36:14,800 --> 01:36:20,760
So me, me, literally stiff as we're doing this conversation.

1288
01:36:20,760 --> 01:36:21,760
Yeah.

1289
01:36:21,760 --> 01:36:22,760
Yeah.

1290
01:36:22,760 --> 01:36:24,400
So blue vervein is a great one for that.

1291
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:28,600
And it's also Gabon Ergic and then passion flower tends to be, we specifically indicated

1292
01:36:28,600 --> 01:36:30,240
for that hamster wheel.

1293
01:36:30,240 --> 01:36:31,720
You're on a hamster wheel.

1294
01:36:31,720 --> 01:36:33,600
You're thinking the same thought over and over again.

1295
01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:38,240
Maybe you revisit any revisiting it every 30 minutes, you know, same thought you're

1296
01:36:38,240 --> 01:36:39,600
doing to get on.

1297
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:45,200
But yeah, hamster wheeling thoughts is a really typically a passion flower.

1298
01:36:45,200 --> 01:36:48,000
Um, so yeah, fingers crossed.

1299
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:53,240
Everybody can find those and I'll, I can send you some resources on shopping for herbs.

1300
01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:54,300
Beautiful.

1301
01:36:54,300 --> 01:36:56,800
One more thing before we let you go.

1302
01:36:56,800 --> 01:36:57,800
I talked about the teas.

1303
01:36:57,800 --> 01:37:02,800
Are there any companies that make teas that have a combination of some of these that you

1304
01:37:02,800 --> 01:37:06,720
like the people be able to access in their regular stores?

1305
01:37:06,720 --> 01:37:07,720
Yeah.

1306
01:37:07,720 --> 01:37:12,680
So most of the, like, I really love traditional medicinals.

1307
01:37:12,680 --> 01:37:14,240
It's a tea company.

1308
01:37:14,240 --> 01:37:22,960
Um, and, uh, yogi teas are both very well formulated, um, coming from like an herbalist

1309
01:37:22,960 --> 01:37:28,920
background as far as taste and, um, and, and therapeutic intervention.

1310
01:37:28,920 --> 01:37:32,080
Uh, I really like them.

1311
01:37:32,080 --> 01:37:36,920
And the thing with that is they're going to be broad spectrum formulated for lots of people.

1312
01:37:36,920 --> 01:37:41,800
So you're probably not going to get symptoms and or energetic.

1313
01:37:41,800 --> 01:37:44,600
We try to keep things energetically neutral.

1314
01:37:44,600 --> 01:37:48,920
And I don't mean that in a woo woo way, but I mean that in like a, if you're a dry person,

1315
01:37:48,920 --> 01:37:51,600
I don't want to give you a dry tea.

1316
01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:56,120
And so if, if from an herbalist perspective, if I'm formulating for a large group of people

1317
01:37:56,120 --> 01:37:59,360
and I don't know them, I'm going to keep it pretty neutral.

1318
01:37:59,360 --> 01:38:06,520
Um, so you're not as inclined to get symptoms and or issues with more large scale formulated

1319
01:38:06,520 --> 01:38:07,520
tea blends.

1320
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:12,400
Um, mountain rose herbs has some great tea blends.

1321
01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:18,040
Um, and I really liked them and they're pretty affordable and you can get them in larger

1322
01:38:18,040 --> 01:38:24,560
amounts so you can get like sample sets and then play around with different herb teas.

1323
01:38:24,560 --> 01:38:25,560
Brilliant.

1324
01:38:25,560 --> 01:38:27,920
Well, I want to thank you so much.

1325
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:29,520
You probably see me scribbling away.

1326
01:38:29,520 --> 01:38:30,520
I've been writing so much.

1327
01:38:30,520 --> 01:38:34,240
Usually, you know, when people come on, I've got somewhat of an understanding of what we're

1328
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:38,440
going to talk about, but when it comes to herbalism, I'm, I'm on board a hundred percent

1329
01:38:38,440 --> 01:38:39,920
because like I said, I take herbal teas.

1330
01:38:39,920 --> 01:38:43,240
I mean, there's, there's things that I do and then I haven't actually tried them yet,

1331
01:38:43,240 --> 01:38:46,680
but Del Jolly is supposed to be sending me some umbo, some of the mushroom tinctures

1332
01:38:46,680 --> 01:38:51,240
that they have, but CBD, I mean, you know, so many people from the, you know, the plant

1333
01:38:51,240 --> 01:38:56,960
medicine side as well with the psychedelics and mental health, but this makes perfect

1334
01:38:56,960 --> 01:39:02,920
sense to me, you know, there's another tool that a lot of us aren't using to down regulate,

1335
01:39:02,920 --> 01:39:09,120
to positively affect the psych, uh, the physiological elements that are contributing to the psychological.

1336
01:39:09,120 --> 01:39:13,440
And even, you know, when you were talking about the pain and the kind of nervous vicious

1337
01:39:13,440 --> 01:39:18,400
circle I'm thinking of fibromyalgia and some of these other things that people suffer from,

1338
01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:21,240
you know, and I've seen it, you know, when you, when you hurt your back and you heal

1339
01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:23,680
it, which I have, there is that guarding.

1340
01:39:23,680 --> 01:39:27,400
So if there's an injury and then you've got trauma and you've got this kind of body keeps

1341
01:39:27,400 --> 01:39:33,320
the score revolving door, maybe just maybe herbal medicine will be one of the things

1342
01:39:33,320 --> 01:39:39,420
that can actually kind of knock that, um, you know, that kind of constant revolution

1343
01:39:39,420 --> 01:39:42,840
and actually get you to start, you know, emerging from that.

1344
01:39:42,840 --> 01:39:43,840
Right.

1345
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:44,840
Yeah.

1346
01:39:44,840 --> 01:39:45,840
Yeah.

1347
01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:47,440
Well, thanks so much for having me.

1348
01:39:47,440 --> 01:39:48,440
I had so much fun.

1349
01:39:48,440 --> 01:39:58,960
I had so much fun.