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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast as always.

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My name is James Gearing and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome back onto

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the show, former SBS operator and co-founder of Through Dark, Anthony Stasz Staszekor.

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So in this second conversation we discuss a host of topics from his experience both

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personally and business wise through the pandemic, the Afghanistan withdrawal, extreme weather

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clothing, jujitsu, reorg, 7X, his new book, The Hard Road Will Take You Home, SAS Who

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Dares Wins and so much more.

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Now before we get to this incredible conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment,

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go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback, I do

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love reading your feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for

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others to find.

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Because this is a free library of over 850 episodes now, so all I ask in return is that

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you help share these incredible men and women stories so I can get them to every single

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person on planet earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I welcome back onto the podcast Stasz.

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Enjoy.

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Well Stasz, firstly I want to say thank you for coming on the Behind the Shield podcast

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again.

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We just met face to face finally in Dubai of all places, so we'll get into that.

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But I also want to say thank you for your patience.

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I can't get my camera to work every time you see me upside down.

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So as we record this, you're doing this blindly to a blank screen right now.

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And for those that do know you will actually attest that that is a blessing in disguise

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for me that I don't have to stare at your beautiful face.

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No, but I'll also start with some thank yous as well.

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Thank you for getting me back on and allowing me to kind of platform to kind of tell my

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story and the story of Through Dark and everything else.

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And as you suggested, it was great to finally meet as well in person in Dubai recently.

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So I'm excited to get stuck in, mate.

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So when we recorded first, it was you and Louis came on together.

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And just as you pointed out before we hit record, it was a while ago and it was actually

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February 2020.

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So for most people listening, that was quite a pivotal moment.

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I'm pretty sure that we were maybe aware of it slightly, but not quite in it yet.

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You had transitioned from the military.

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Now you're an entrepreneur.

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You know, walk me through what that looked like through your eyeballs specifically.

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Yeah, I guess for people that for some context and a little bit of backstory.

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So who am I?

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You know, Anthony Stastazica.

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I've served 13 years in the British military.

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I spent my first three years in the Royal Marines.

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I was a Royal Marine sniper.

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And then for the last sort of 10 years of my military career, my more formative years

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were spent in the UK Special Forces and very similar sort of timings to Louis as well.

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And Louis is a very good friend of mine, Louis Tinsley.

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He's also the co-founder of ThruDark, a technical outdoor clothing and apparel company, which

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we both founded in 2018 when we left the military.

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So between us combined sort of military services of about 26 years, both in the SPS Special

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Forces and yeah, we've been kind of at this technical outdoor clothing market now for

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the best part of five to six years.

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So with that being said, that's leading us up to your transition out, which was the first

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conversation.

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You know, we had a great chat and you can let us through your military journey.

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But now we're talking, you know, you, me and Louis, you've made this bold jump.

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You've got this extreme weather clothing company and then the pandemic hits.

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So as entrepreneurs and as, you know, boyfriends and parents and all these other things that

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we become, what was that the impact of the pandemic for you personally?

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Yeah, I mean, there's quite a bit to unpack there.

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I guess, you know, if we sort of try and chop this down a little bit, so it's just for myself

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really because I'm a simple person.

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I guess when we left the military, you know, I guess it's especially from people with our

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backgrounds and our skill sets, you know, our most likely kind of course is to move

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into highly paid, good positions within security and close protection, which we did for a bit.

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You know, we were working some very well sort of cherry pick jobs within the NFL and NBA

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and doing the kind of super bowls and all this kind of stuff, which was great.

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But, you know, our idea and our focus was all around ThruDark and the technical clothing

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company.

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So I guess when we left, we sort of pumped all of our kind of energy and effort and passion

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and into ThruDark and into the business.

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And then from there, you know, we're talking to 2017, 2018.

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What starts out as a bit of an idea and a dream, I guess, very quickly starts to grow.

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And I say quickly, these six years have, you know, been nothing but hard, hard yards and

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hard grafts, you know, to kind of get into the position that we're at now.

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But back in the day, it's no too dissimilar to any startup story, you know, in terms of

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an idea is born and then you kind of put pen to paper, we go into the planning phase and

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we kind of treated it like a bit of a military operation at the time, you know, whiteboard,

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all that kind of stuff.

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And yeah, we sort of just get going out of the out of the gates, you know, in 2018, 2019,

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we're a couple of years in, you know, we do the podcast with yourself and it's gathering

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momentum and traction across social media and website.

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The business is doing okay.

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You know, it seems to be working.

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We're kind of out of the gate, but we're by no means kind of in sort of fresh, safe waters.

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You know, there's still very, very turbulent time in terms of business and how long that

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we've been operating.

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And you still have that niggling, I still have it now, but you have that niggling sort

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of thing in your mind about, you know, is it is the business going to work?

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Does it work?

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Is it going to last?

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You know, is it a flash in the pan?

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Is it something that's substantial that people are really resonating with?

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And you know, we're just getting everything sorted from production and finding our feet

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in the business world and everything else.

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And we're about six people strong in terms of, you know, personnel at ThruDoc with a

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few more people working downstairs that are sort of servicing the goods in and out.

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And then, yeah, to your point, it was straight into a fucking pandemic, which was definitely

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not on the on the whiteboard.

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You know, we kind of like to think that we never leave a stone unturned and we're always

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looking at options and what if and solutions and businesses like that, isn't it?

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It's constantly, you know, you're constantly looking at solutions, you know, it's just

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problems and problems and problems.

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It's just solutions day in, day out.

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And some days, you know, the problems are small and some days it's a combination of

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small and big problems.

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But the pandemic in particular was pretty monstrous in size and scale and in terms of

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what it did not just to us as a business, but the whole fucking world.

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And that affected us from the basic things as, you know, the majority of our products

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at the time were made in Italy, you know, in Milan.

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And that area got hit, you know, very, very, very, very hard.

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So there was a moment where we were almost kind of running out of product, you know,

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and if you haven't got a product to sell, you know, you don't have a business.

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So that kind of seesaw was going back into the wrong direction.

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And you know, we have all the stress and everything else that's going on around that as well in

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terms of the business.

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And it was such a crucial moment for us because, you know, we were gathering traction, we were

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doing well, but at the same time, it was worrying and stressful because we, at the time as we

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were going through that, we didn't know where the end goal was, you know, and that's fine.

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You can plan and mitigate and think about everything else.

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But when you don't know when something will end that could potentially, you know, finish

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the business or at least put the business on ice, if it's not cashflow correctly, then

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that is very, very worrying.

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So yeah, the pandemic was a difficult time.

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But that being said, James, we actually pivoted and worked quite well through that transitional

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period.

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It's probably more luck than judgment, but we just had a huge amount of stock land, you

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know, we put a lot of cash and energy and effort into the growth of the business through

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our, you know, our investors and everything else.

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And we were in a good position going into the pandemic, well, as good as we could have

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been at the time in terms of stock, you know, the website was still up and running, the

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social media platforms were still up and running.

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And the majority of our demographic were, you know, still working and being paid, but

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had maybe potentially a little bit more free time and free cash.

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And also we're now seeing the benefits of what the outdoors was doing for them, you

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know, physically, but more importantly, mentally as well.

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So a lot more people were kind of then made more aware of their physical fitness, you

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know, really kind of highlighted people's health and the outdoors, you know, we couldn't

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travel so more people were getting outdoors locally to themselves.

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So, you know, we just pumped a little bit more sort of money into paid advertisement, etc,

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etc.

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And we're a little bit more loud and proud across social media platforms.

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And actually we saw, you know, sales improving.

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But then to my original point, we did have that moment of, you know, we can only sustain

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this for so long before we get to the point of we have no stock, you know, so definitely

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a very, very challenging period in through docs, through docs, sort of it is in the infancy

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the first couple of years.

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Were you hit on the fact that some people had the realization about their own health

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and, you know, getting outside when it hit over here and I was very lucky, Florida was

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very, I'd say sensible, it was the only word they took it very seriously at the beginning,

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everyone kind of locked down.

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But very soon after that, they started doing, you know, analysis literally week by week

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and opening things back up again.

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I think it was fantastic.

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And you know, our deaths is as many retirees as we have, we're actually a lot lower than

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some of the places that locked everyone down.

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What was the message that you were getting in the UK?

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Because for me, everything that we needed to improve our natural health in America was

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kind of, it was the opposite.

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They told people to stay indoors.

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You know, the gyms were closed, the restaurants were closed and all the things that people

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have, community, fitness, time in nature, outdoors, etc., were closed down, but you

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could get fast food and alcohol delivered to your house.

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So to me, that couldn't have been further from creating resilience in a population to

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beat a virus.

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With you specializing in, you know, in, like you said, outdoor clothing, extreme weather,

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etc.

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What was your lens on the wellness element of how it was handled?

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I mean, it may be handled brilliantly from where you saw, but, you know, what was your

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perspective?

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That's a very good question, James.

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And it's actually something I've not mentioned or spoke about in great detail, especially

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not publicly.

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So I'll probably get vilified because, and I want to precursor this before everybody

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sort of jumps on the fucking bandwagon.

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You know, I am not a virologist.

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I'm not a fucking medical expert, etc., etc.

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You know, I'm a former special forces operator.

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You know, I only have my own experience and life experience to lean into.

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I think initially it was worrying.

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It was what is going on.

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We were in that initial sort of understand phase of what is this?

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And you know, the panic that ensued and the mainstream media were, as always, to blame

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for a large majority of this.

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But I'm kind of like you.

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I'm quite sort of analytical and data driven in kind of my decisions with a little bit

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of my own, tempered with a little bit of my own experience as well.

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Now, because it was such a hot topic and it was so prevalent across everybody's kind of

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lives at the time, I just spent hours and hours reading and digesting information on

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podcasts.

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And I was always quite aware or self-aware that the information I was receiving was nuanced.

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So it wasn't just leaning one way or the other.

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And I would also formulate my own opinions on the data or the information that I was

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hearing or seeing, you know, and reading and listening as well.

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You know, I think the worst thing that we, there's a lot of things now.

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And listen, I also want to carry out this whole moan, I guess, that I'm about to do

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with, you know, everything's always fucking easier looking back, isn't it, with hindsight.

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You know, and you can say that about a lot of things that have happened in the past,

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you know, from war to, you know, other issues that we've had across the world, across the

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globe that have touched, you know, hundreds, thousands, millions of people.

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But this was such a big deal, you know, I thought that it required investment from myself

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personally to really understand what was going on, you know.

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And there are so many things that were just ridiculous in terms of what they did, you

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know, and especially now, you know, looking back, you know, a few years on, a couple of

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years on, just to sort of, with everything that's coming out at the moment, and the

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inquiries are currently going on at the moment in the UK as well, you know, but there is,

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I think once you scratch the surface, and you know, I'm not a fucking tin hat wearing

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conspiracy person by any stretch of the imagination, but, you know, let's be honest, a lot of these

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things that were conspiracies have now turned out to actually not be conspiracy, you know,

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and things that there's been a lot of truth that has come out as well in terms of, you

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know, the vaccines and the application, but also mandating these things as well in terms

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of who was to receive these and why.

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And it caused a huge divide in the UK, you know, from, it was the vaccinated versus the

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anti, you know, vaccines.

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And listen, I'm not anti-vaccine.

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I've got vaccinations.

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I've had to have vaccinations throughout my whole life and military career anyway.

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So but for me, the way that it was moving so quickly and where the evidence was pointing,

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it just didn't make sense to me.

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You know, I had COVID, I caught COVID and fortunately for me, you know, I had little

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to no effect.

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You know, I lost a bit of taste and smell, but I was actually running around the mountains

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at the time up in Wales and I knew I had it.

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I tested and I had lost my smell and taste, but I was actually fine, you know, in terms

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of fitness.

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Now I get it.

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There's underlying health conditions and there's all these things that, you know, that affect

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the way that people react to this.

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But from what I was seeing, from my personal experience, the people that I could see within

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my network that were getting COVID, that were affected by it, it didn't seem as bad as the

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media were portraying.

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And a lot of the things that we looked at, we knew the government were lying about certain

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things, you know, and we also now understand and realize that there's bigger plays going

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on in terms of the pharmaceutical industries and who owns and runs what and how it's connected

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to everything else.

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You know, so it's a very difficult, complex, new, like the whole topic and discussion,

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you know, it's probably, but I'm also conscious that it does deserve this time.

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I don't think we should be pushing it under the carpet and brushing it and, you know,

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and then onto the next thing and onto, oh, it's Ukraine now and oh, it's Gaza and it's

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move onto the next thing.

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It's like, no, no, no, we still need to go back and address everything that happened.

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And correct me if I'm wrong, but, you know, especially in the UK, they were mandating

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vaccines for service personnel, for, you know, the NHS, so our National Health Service, doctors,

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nurses, and it caused a lot of issues and upset between people that didn't necessarily

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want the vaccine, but were voluntold to take it, you know, and the ramifications were,

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if you didn't, that you would lose your job and then would be unable to support your family,

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which is absolutely disgusting, you know, and I think now that we're in a position that

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we can look back and the information and the evidence is coming out that, you know, it's

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pretty damning, to be honest.

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So that's probably as far as I'll go in terms of a rant and we can we can unpick certain

295
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parts of that as well, you know, probably as we move on.

296
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Yeah, well, I mean, thank you.

297
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I agree completely when you said it needs to be revisited.

298
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It's 100% people like, I don't want to talk about its politics.

299
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It's like, no, that's not politics.

300
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That's the health of the nation.

301
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And now on the other end, this is what I've talked about since the beginning.

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The reason there's three episodes a week is when we hit the pandemic and I was seeing

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all the scaremongering, I'm like, all right, I'm going to put even more middle of the road,

304
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you know, content that people can action, they can do in their own home, you know, fitness

305
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and nutrition and mindfulness and all the other things that we talked about.

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But if it had been about the health of the nation and we had a captive audience for two

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years, Britain, Australia, the US, Canada, et cetera, et cetera, we'd all be healthier

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than we were in 2020.

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But obesity is getting worse.

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Mental health is declining.

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So you know, this is the thing.

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And like you said, I just I just saw a L.A. firefighter just be terminated in December

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2023 for not taking the vaccine back in whatever it was, 21, 22.

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And we know now the efficacy was basically no better than the placebo.

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Now I've had an E.R. friend of mine who talked about where some of the vaccines seem to be

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helping people who are already very ill.

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Excellent.

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Great application.

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So it's a symptom reducer, not a vaccine.

320
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But to me, the conversation needs to happen because, for example, fire, police, military

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are struggling to recruit now because our pool of fit candidates is getting smaller

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and smaller and smaller.

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So the health of the nation, the mental health of the nation, the security of the nation

324
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are still things that we need to be discussing because it wasn't remedy during the pandemic.

325
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Absolutely.

326
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And I think that is the main point for me about this whole thing.

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What did it highlight?

328
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Mainly for me is is people's own physical and mental fitness and robustness, you know,

329
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to help alleviate any stress and anxiety and worry, you know, and I think, again, when

330
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you hear hoos, you know, think horses, not zebras and people say, well, it's OK for you

331
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and you've not got this issue.

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I'm not talking about those five percent, ten percent of the population that have genuine

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underlying health and medical issues and conditions.

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But there are a lot of people out there that are using that excuse that have no right to

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use that excuse, you know, in terms of staying mentally and physically fit.

336
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You know, and I take myself as an example here in training six, six, seven times a week

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at times, you know, and keeping myself physically fit is not only a priority for me personally,

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but also for my family.

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You know, I mean, I'm a provider.

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I need to stay physically fit.

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I need to be the best version of myself.

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And as you suggested earlier, the population, we've never been so unfit, obese and all of

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these things.

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And I think, again, correct me if I'm wrong, it was one of the biggest issues and precursors

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to having worse conditions associated to Covid.

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You know, the main effect that it had on people was the people that were overweight.

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Now, if you're not in that small, you know, substructure of people, the five percent crew,

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you know, OK, I get it.

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But the others have absolutely no fucking excuse other than being lazy, you know, and

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not being accountable for their own physical fitness, which I know it seems hard.

351
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I know it seems harsh and a little bit too maybe almost draconian or military style.

352
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But listen, there's days I don't want to get out of bed and fucking train in the morning

353
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and go running and do jujitsu or go to the gym.

354
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But I don't see it as a want.

355
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It's a need.

356
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You have to do that.

357
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And I think for some reasons, you know, lots of different reasons and social media and

358
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the ease now of everything else, our lives are just becoming too fucking comfortable

359
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,680
and too simple.

360
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And I think it's a fucking tragedy.

361
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,480
And people need to wake up to that realization that it's not supposed to be easy.

362
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,680
You're not supposed to have food delivered to your fucking front door.

363
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,480
You're not supposed to sit still all day.

364
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,720
You're not supposed to, you know, sit behind the fucking computer screen playing games,

365
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,280
you know, get outside, challenge yourself and push yourself physically, because that's

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the you know, eat the correct food, you know.

367
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So that takes discipline and it takes, you know, consistency as well.

368
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So those two things, you know, combined together, you know, will set you up for success.

369
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And, you know, this isn't everybody.

370
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,720
I'm not fucking blanket throwing this on everybody.

371
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There are people out there that are doing that and pursuing that life and obviously

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reap the rewards and benefit for it.

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So it's very difficult, you know.

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And I understand those different kind of socio demographic issues and people in different

375
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areas and everything else that don't have access to things, but, you know, there's always

376
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always a way to get yourself away and get fit and get active and get moving.

377
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,440
You know, food's a difficult one sometimes, you know, depending on where you are and kind

378
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of how much you earn, etc, etc.

379
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,000
So it needs to be looked at.

380
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,200
The government just throwing fucking millions and billions of pounds into a stupid NHS app

381
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that didn't even work.

382
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,640
You know, let's look at different ways that we can we can apply that government funding,

383
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you know, to help people.

384
00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:23,600
Absolutely.

385
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:29,240
So I got a pretty unique perspective on the NHS, something that I've I love the NHS.

386
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,000
I think as a philosophy, it is beautiful.

387
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:36,000
But I watched it get torn apart by politicians, you know, the budget cuts and staffing cuts,

388
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etc, etc.

389
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,400
And those poor doctors and nurses and, you know, custodians and everyone else that was

390
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,920
keeping the hospitals running, you know, we got outside and we they got outside and clapped

391
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,480
it, you know, what it was five, five p.m. and then went back inside, you know, it's

392
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like, well, I didn't give them any more staffing or beds or PPE.

393
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,720
But I remember you talking about the scaremongering from the media, the more going there's people

394
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:58,720
in the hallways.

395
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,560
And I was like, as an American paramedic, this worked in most cities.

396
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,480
I'm like, we're always in the hallways.

397
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:05,480
There's never enough beds.

398
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,480
That's normal every day.

399
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,480
So then, you know, we watch the pandemic, you know, again, the the NHS are asked to

400
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,140
do more with less.

401
00:26:13,140 --> 00:26:14,360
And then we come out the other end.

402
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:17,780
So again, you think in lessons learned, like after 9-11, there's a lot of money that went

403
00:26:17,780 --> 00:26:20,560
into the military, into the first responders.

404
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:29,200
Well, my dad has a chest pain, 81 years old, gets taken to the hospital and the ambulance

405
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:35,560
crew have to sit outside with him for nine hours until they've got a bed for him.

406
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,840
And again, I mean, I'm watching the way this was done.

407
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:43,720
The system is just that system in that particular hospital is obviously very mismanaged by some

408
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:44,720
of the things that were going on.

409
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,980
It just didn't make any sense at all.

410
00:26:46,980 --> 00:26:49,320
But again, this is the other side of the pandemic now.

411
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,000
So this is what happens in some of these hospitals.

412
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,160
But they were acting like normally you just walk in and everything's fine.

413
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,700
And now this COVID thing, there's bodies everywhere.

414
00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:04,560
And so if we really again cared about health care, the NHS today would be staffed again

415
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:05,560
and funded.

416
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,040
But I mean, I'm not blaming any human.

417
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,140
The ambulance crews were great.

418
00:27:09,140 --> 00:27:11,340
They actually had a shift change in the ambulance.

419
00:27:11,340 --> 00:27:14,000
That's how long they were sitting in the parking lot.

420
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,000
But it's such an incredible system.

421
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,680
But again, if we care, that money should have gone into the actual NHS.

422
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:25,940
We shouldn't have a 99-year-old war veteran walking just to try and give those poor people

423
00:27:25,940 --> 00:27:26,940
more money.

424
00:27:26,940 --> 00:27:27,940
That's horrific, mate.

425
00:27:27,940 --> 00:27:31,100
I completely agree with that as well.

426
00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:35,280
It's almost about who's making the decisions about where the money goes as well.

427
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:41,480
We built this fucking huge nightingale hospital for an overspill of COVID patients that was

428
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,480
empty.

429
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,160
They didn't really get utilized.

430
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,040
Again, that was just millions of pounds, panic, thrown in.

431
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,880
And I mentioned earlier about the NHS app that didn't work.

432
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,200
Millions of pounds were wasted.

433
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:59,720
Think about supporting the people on the front line, the NHS workers, the doctors, the nurses.

434
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:04,860
There's certain people I think in society that need to be recognized for the great work

435
00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:05,860
that they do.

436
00:28:05,860 --> 00:28:10,720
And some of those people are the doctors and the nurses, people that are doing care for

437
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:11,720
the elderly.

438
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,040
And then you've got teachers as well that are ultimately impacting the next generation.

439
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,960
So these kind of jobs should be prestigious.

440
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:23,200
They are the prestigious jobs that have an impact on people when they need it most.

441
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:30,360
And for some reason as a society, they're not highlighted in that way.

442
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:36,000
And they're also not recognized in that way and or paid in the correct way as well.

443
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,840
I don't know.

444
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,000
It seems to make sense to me and it shouldn't be so hard to fix.

445
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,800
But clearly it is.

446
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:48,000
So when we first sat down, kind of shifting to a kind of more extreme fitness and mental

447
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:54,800
toughness, you were I think you had just been number five on the SAS Who Dares When Show

448
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,120
and you were the mole.

449
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,520
When we met in Dubai, you were on your way to do the show again.

450
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,760
So talk to me about the different role that you played in the show and what that experience

451
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:03,760
was like this time.

452
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:08,000
Yeah, it was probably the worst undercover mole in history.

453
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,640
I say that, so that was actually with Channel 4.

454
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:16,840
At the time, they asked me to come in to be one of the recruits.

455
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,360
So it's a 10 day course that they're filming.

456
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:25,520
And for the first six days, I was the mole undercover, acting as a recruit, gathering

457
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,800
intelligence for the DS, reporting back to those guys.

458
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,440
Now the viewers knew that I was the mole, etc, etc.

459
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:37,800
And then on day six, I was then kind of released or shown to others that actually I've been

460
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:42,760
undercover and I'm a DS and I moved into a director staff role and then did the celebrity

461
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:43,760
version after that.

462
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:44,760
That was great.

463
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:50,760
It was an amazing opportunity and learned a lot, enjoyed it, enjoyed the process, not

464
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,880
so much the recruit part.

465
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,520
It was for ThruDark in terms of marketing.

466
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,680
Channel was really good.

467
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:04,440
And then after that, it was all a success on the show and then left the show as the

468
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:05,440
chief constructor.

469
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,480
I left, I was sort of back to ThruDark, back to business as usual.

470
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:14,760
And then a year or two years later, I got a phone call from some of the people over

471
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:21,520
at Channel 7 for the SAS Australia version and had the call up to sort of see if I wanted

472
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:27,040
to join Anne and Ollie Ollerton and Jay Morton as the director staff on that show.

473
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,040
And that's obviously where I was actually transiting through Dubai to fly on to Jordan

474
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,480
before filming end of February, beginning of March.

475
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,400
And that was incredible as well.

476
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:42,080
Getting back in and working around the guys again was amazing because when you leave the

477
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,840
special forces and the military, you do miss the guys.

478
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:49,040
That's the biggest thing that you do miss, that camaraderie and that bond and being around

479
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:54,680
that energy constantly is something that I probably miss the most and that and obviously

480
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,400
some of the high up obtained jobs and everything else.

481
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:05,560
But to have that sort of small feeling again back in that environment was amazing.

482
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,040
Now did you work with Remy Adeleke and Rudy Reyes?

483
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:14,360
No, so those guys, I think when Ant left the Channel 4 bit and obviously continued with

484
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,040
the Australian version, those guys then moved into the UK version.

485
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,720
So that crossover for me personally never happened.

486
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,320
I've met Rudy, I've not met Remy.

487
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,920
I haven't met Remy.

488
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:30,200
So yeah, that was just kind of two different channels, two different programs essentially,

489
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,400
both sort of shooting very similar same sort of structured content in terms of SAS who

490
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,400
does wins.

491
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,520
It was interesting talking to Ricky Nuttall.

492
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,760
So he was one of the firefighters, the London firefighters that responded to the Grenfell

493
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,800
and yeah, they had a very, very powerful story really.

494
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:51,120
I think opened some doors when it came to be able to talk about mental health in the

495
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:52,960
British Fire Service at least.

496
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:58,960
But I know he was on the show and this would have been during COVID and he was talking

497
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:06,520
about the isolation that they had to have that whatever it was, 10 days in a hotel room,

498
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,800
that he was forced to be at lone with his thoughts.

499
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:15,760
And so the fire that burned in him to want to do the show by the time he actually got

500
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,400
in to do the show, he'd almost like healed.

501
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,480
Like that fire wasn't burning anymore.

502
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,280
So that was kind of his perspective of that one.

503
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:31,320
What were you seeing as far as backstories or common denominators between the recruits

504
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,600
that seemed like maybe on day one they were going to do well, maybe they were very athletic

505
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:41,280
or they had that thing about them and which humans actually were the ones that succeeded

506
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:42,280
at the end of it?

507
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,560
Yeah, that's a great question.

508
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:50,520
And with regards to Ricky as well in particular, I was a recruit with Ricky, we were on the

509
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:51,520
same show.

510
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,320
So I know exactly what he's talking about.

511
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,880
It was filmed up in the Irish sky up in Scotland, so the very northern kind of tip of Scotland.

512
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,680
So we're in the middle of nowhere and we have to go do a 10 day quarantine period.

513
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,640
We were obviously tested.

514
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,480
Looking back now, it's a joke, isn't it?

515
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,840
But we were tested kind of twice through that 10 day period to make sure that we were clear

516
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,320
and then we could go on to the filming.

517
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,120
And sort of everybody was in that bubble that was cleared and tested and we could then film

518
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,960
and crack on with the show.

519
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:22,960
Ricky was a funny one.

520
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,440
Obviously, I was doing the stuff as a recruit, so I was in the same hotel as them and we

521
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,960
were allowed out once a day to do physical exercise or twice a day.

522
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,840
You could have a walk or a run for an hour or something like that.

523
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,960
So we're sort of still getting out of the hills and mountains and running and keeping

524
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:37,960
physically fit and moving.

525
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,680
But yeah, to his point, for the most part, you were in your room on your own.

526
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,840
That being said, you had your phone, you could ring home and you're on social media and I

527
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,320
was just doing work and still speaking to the team back there and etc.

528
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,920
But I actually had every recruits report in front of me.

529
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,840
So I was just kind of reading up on each person individually, just getting the kind of backstory

530
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,480
and trying to understand them before I went into the show as them all to try and kind

531
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:06,080
of understand them more, but also have a point of contact that I could naturally sort of

532
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,400
segue into conversations, etc.

533
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,520
But Ricky, for me, had an amazing story.

534
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,240
You know, part of the Grenfell fires, a firefighter, clearly very physically fit.

535
00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:20,360
I didn't realize what he was quite going through mentally at the time.

536
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,080
But when we started filming the show, for me, he was one of those guys, you know, he

537
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:25,920
had a great character, great personality.

538
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,360
He was clearly a leader, you know, and I saw him as one of the front runners.

539
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,600
I thought, you know, this guy's going to be up the front.

540
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:38,400
He's going to be finishing, you know, at the top, you know, bar some sort of injury or

541
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,200
illness that would take him out.

542
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:45,960
And how long I could have been, I didn't realize, but it makes sense now from what you've just

543
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:51,760
said that the reasons why he went on to the show and that isolation period, what it enabled

544
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,360
him to do in terms of his own healing and understanding.

545
00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:00,200
So when it came to filming, he was kind of like, shit, I've got everything I came here

546
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:01,760
for personally.

547
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,560
And to carry on with the show is I'm doing it for the wrong reasons.

548
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:10,360
Now I'm not sure if I agree with that, you know, for me personally, and I do get it and

549
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:11,760
I understand it from his point of view.

550
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:17,440
And what's the point in carrying on if you feel like you've gained everything that you

551
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,080
wanted to achieve, everything you wanted to achieve pre going on the show.

552
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,880
But I just think he would have got even more from seeing the course through, you know,

553
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,600
you never know what else you're going to learn unless you keep going and walking and opening

554
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:30,600
those doors.

555
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,560
You know, to say that, you know, that's fine.

556
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,400
I've been locked up in a room for 10 days and wow, I've had an epiphany moment and that's

557
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:37,400
me.

558
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,640
I'm not so sure, you know, and I've told him about that as well, you know, to message him

559
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:47,040
after like, I just think that he could have gained more from carrying on and maybe seeing

560
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,040
that course through.

561
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,440
So I was a little bit disappointed with Ricky for pulling himself off so early on in the

562
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,640
course, because I just think he was strong.

563
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,320
He could have helped other people, you know, that were on the on the course as well.

564
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:03,120
So even if you are sort of feeling better yourself, then why not remain and help other

565
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:08,320
people out that aren't as physically strong or as mentally strong as you to try and coach

566
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:09,520
and help those people through.

567
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,760
So sometimes it's not always about us and about what we want.

568
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,480
You know, sometimes we're the servant as well.

569
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,880
And it's nice to sort of think, what can I do for other people?

570
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,400
Now, I'm not and I feel quite bad saying that it's like I'm sort of cursing Ricky and his

571
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,600
decisions, but clearly, you know, yeah, other things going on in his head at the times.

572
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:31,400
And I've got massive respect for him, even in the first instance, as I have anybody that

573
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,500
goes on to that show, anybody that, you know, steps into the arena into that world.

574
00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:36,500
It's very daunting.

575
00:36:36,500 --> 00:36:37,500
It's unfamiliar.

576
00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:39,600
It's very challenging physically and mentally.

577
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:44,160
But I just think, you know, for me personally, I would have just kept going and I would have

578
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,800
saw that course through just to sort of find out more about myself, you know, and that's

579
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,000
what the course is designed to do.

580
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,760
And everybody, back to your original question, everybody's on there for different reasons.

581
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,300
And everybody has different stories.

582
00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:58,920
And don't get me wrong, it's a fucking TV program, isn't it, James?

583
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,680
And they want to they want to play onto those angles and stories and backstories that people

584
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:03,680
have in it.

585
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,480
And it almost connects the audience to the show and to the people.

586
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,920
And it's designed specifically in that way, which I get.

587
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:15,320
But yeah, I just think I was just gutted, if I'm honest, personally, that Ricky sort

588
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,200
of decided to leave so early on in the show.

589
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,560
I love what you said about if you're doing well, then be there for others, because I

590
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,920
think that really ties into the mental health conversation.

591
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,440
I literally was talking to Tip Cullen yesterday.

592
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,840
I don't know if you cross paths with Tip.

593
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:36,600
And he, you know, one of his things is like, up to this point, he he hasn't found himself

594
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,760
in a dark place, you know, really dark place.

595
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:40,760
And I've said the same thing.

596
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:46,320
And when I look back, you know, there is a spectrum of healthy coping mechanisms that

597
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,960
were infused into my childhood just by accident.

598
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:54,220
So I am no better or no worse than anyone else who has struggled more, struggled less.

599
00:37:54,220 --> 00:37:56,680
It's just, you know, as many traumas as I have when I was young.

600
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:57,680
I grew up on a farm.

601
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:58,680
My dad was a vet.

602
00:37:58,680 --> 00:37:59,680
So he's healing animals.

603
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,720
You know, there was nature and sunshine and, you know, cold and suffering and all the things

604
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:08,280
that factor into to hopefully forging resilience.

605
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:13,600
But so if you're doing well, then it's up to you to then help other people and raise

606
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:14,600
them up.

607
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:18,420
So of course, like you said, at that moment, with Ricky and his decision, I probably wasn't

608
00:38:18,420 --> 00:38:19,420
factoring in.

609
00:38:19,420 --> 00:38:23,680
But the number of people that I know that have really succeeded, and I would say myself

610
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,400
included, I think what got me through fire academies was trying to help the people that

611
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,960
were struggling that really want to do it, not the ones that weren't trying.

612
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,400
I mean, fuck those guys, they can, they can quit.

613
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,840
But the people that really, really were trying and just needed a little extra help, I would

614
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:39,520
focus on being there for them.

615
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,000
So I love I love what you said, because I think that applies to mental health.

616
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:47,200
It applies to, you know, selection and boot camp and fire academy, all those other things.

617
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,560
If you're doing okay, then fucking find someone else to help.

618
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:51,560
Yeah, absolutely.

619
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:57,600
And just to reiterate that point, you know, UK Special Forces selection is probably the

620
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,440
hardest job interview in the world, isn't it?

621
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:05,320
But there are no, listen, that is the most physically, mentally exhausting process that

622
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:10,040
I've ever been through in my life, you know, probably now going into business more mentally

623
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:15,160
as well, but certainly physically, you know, you, you push yourself, you know, far and

624
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,360
beyond what you ever thought you were capable of achieving.

625
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,240
And there are moments, you know, I just remember thinking about now, it sort of almost makes

626
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:27,520
me shudder in the jungle where you are on the ebbs of sort of existing, you're just

627
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:32,320
some days you are just existing and you can't think further than 10 seconds ahead, you know,

628
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,000
and, and you just have, and everybody has a bad day, you know, which can turn into a

629
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,000
bad week.

630
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,840
And on those moments in selection, that's where you really find out who the right people

631
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,480
are, you know, and it's a massive part of it, isn't it?

632
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,720
For the Hills phase, it's more, you know, you're on your own, it's the physical navigating

633
00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:54,080
with heavy packs on your back from point A to point B. Are you physically and mentally

634
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:58,080
robust enough to kind of pass that phase, you know, at the required standards with the

635
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,600
weight and the times, that's then kind of your ticket then into the jungle, you move

636
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,000
into the jungle, then you're in a four man patrol.

637
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,640
And during that period, that's what they're really looking at.

638
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,200
It's like, yes, look, you've proved that you are physically fit and mentally robust,

639
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:14,440
but now this is a different operating environment, but also can you soldier to a very high standard

640
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:15,440
within the jungle?

641
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:20,360
It's a very difficult environment to operate and soldier in.

642
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:25,840
But also, how do you react when you're absolutely at the end, you know, at the end of your teller,

643
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,600
you're so fatigued and tired and malnourished and have no sleep.

644
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,320
But who are you as a person?

645
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:37,200
It really fucking scratches or it makes you remove those masks so that all that's left

646
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,920
is a true reflection or version of you as a person.

647
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:42,960
And that's when you see who people are.

648
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,840
And that's what I'm trying to get out here, you know, to that point is to say that when

649
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:52,480
I was absolutely fucked, I could still turn around and smile at my own sort of misery,

650
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,560
but also try and help people when I was having a good day, you know, a couple of days, you'd

651
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,680
feel a bit stronger or, you know, you're in a good place, you've had a good couple of

652
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,840
days that then compound, you think, shit, I'm doing all right here, I kind of turned

653
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:03,840
a page.

654
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,920
And now it's, you know, it's all about self-preservation.

655
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:11,400
But at the same time, if you can help somebody that you feel is deserving of help, you know,

656
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,480
then absolutely, you get a good feeling from that as well.

657
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:15,480
And it's well received.

658
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:19,280
And then when you need the help, it then gets reciprocated and comes back around full circle.

659
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,560
So I do think there's a lot, there's a lot in that.

660
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:26,520
And I sort of hope that I continue to carry that on through my military career, and then

661
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,880
also now into business and in my personal life as well.

662
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:36,960
Well, speaking of suffering, in February, you and I met in Dubai in a Brazilian steakhouse,

663
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:37,960
I think it was.

664
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:39,720
And that was part of 7X.

665
00:41:39,720 --> 00:41:44,720
I know that I connected you with Ryan, both of you incredible human beings, you donated

666
00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:48,000
a lot of gear, which is actually going to get worn this February.

667
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:53,160
I'm not going with them because I owe my son some parent time.

668
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:57,880
So we won't be, I won't be there actually at Antarctica when they do that final run.

669
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,320
But you know, as we sit here now, as I showed you, I'm wearing a through dark sweatshirt.

670
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:06,100
So talk to me about that relationship and what 7X was like for you from the outside

671
00:42:06,100 --> 00:42:07,100
looking in.

672
00:42:07,100 --> 00:42:11,640
Yeah, I get, well, geez, before that, you played a right blinder there, James Pickett.

673
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:13,960
Oh, sorry, guys, I can't make the Antarctica one.

674
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:14,960
I see what you're...

675
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:15,960
I like your style, mate.

676
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:22,480
Yeah, I can't do the freezing cold one, but I'll do the Dubai version.

677
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,760
They said they don't need, they're almost spinning in there because they said that they

678
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:26,760
owed it to us.

679
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:27,760
And I'm like, you don't owe me anything.

680
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:32,000
It's more, it's more the fact that to get there, it's going to take multiple days before

681
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,560
multiple days after and, you know, for I think it was four hours on the ice.

682
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,480
So the athletes will do, you know, they'll do the skydives, they'll do the runs, but

683
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,880
the rest of us, it was like a tourist excursion.

684
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,920
And I'm like, I think I think my son would probably prefer I spend a week with him and

685
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:46,280
five hours on the ice.

686
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,920
Yeah, good, good call, mate.

687
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,600
So yeah, 7X and again, thank you for that introduction there.

688
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,760
I love these kinds of things, these little links and networks and door opening for people

689
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:56,760
and these opportunities.

690
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:03,360
I'm a massive fan of this and, you know, Ryan, you know, Birdman, what an incredible human,

691
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:08,200
you know, and a person that I've kind of gotten to know and again over the last couple

692
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:12,000
of years and stay in touch with and everything that he's doing there with the 7X and raising

693
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,360
awareness and the charities and everything else is just phenomenal, you know.

694
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,280
So immediately when that connection was made for myself and Louis and Trudark, it just

695
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:27,080
seemed so natural and authentic and credible for us to get involved with, you know, where

696
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:28,080
we could.

697
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:29,680
And for us, it was, it was the clothing element.

698
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,840
So obviously we're a technical outdoor clothing brand.

699
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:38,080
So when the kind of project was put forward to us, it was like, wow, how can we support,

700
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:44,400
you know, how, where and when and to what degree can we support this incredible project?

701
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:49,160
And that was amazing for us to kind of go through that process as well and really understand

702
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,080
where you were going, what you were doing and kind of where we could hopefully just

703
00:43:53,080 --> 00:44:00,480
add a little bit of value and alleviate as much kind of stress and pressure for the guys

704
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,440
in terms of the technical kit and equipment that they were wearing on task.

705
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,800
Yeah, well, I can tell you people absolutely loved it.

706
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,480
And I think they're going to get the most value obviously when they, when they go to

707
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,880
Antarctica with it being the cold weather gear.

708
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:19,820
One of the things that you also donated was the gi, your latest Trudark gi.

709
00:44:19,820 --> 00:44:27,920
On the recce for the trip, so it would have been September of 2022, I went down to Plymouth

710
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:34,480
and hung out with Sam and Ben in the Trudark, you know, HQ down there, rolled and I say

711
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:39,880
rolled, I got murdered by him and junior, but it was phenomenal.

712
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,520
So talk to me about that relationship.

713
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,120
Yeah, so Sam is a former Royal Marine.

714
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,360
I think he did 22, 23 years.

715
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:50,520
He was a physical training instructor within the Royal Marines.

716
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,000
So the guys that used to run around in the tight shorts and the vests screaming at everybody

717
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,520
to run faster.

718
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,400
Actually when I joined the Marines, that's what I wanted to do.

719
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,800
I joined with the intention of becoming a physical training instructor, but then my

720
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:02,800
sort of career changed.

721
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,160
I've become a sniper and I went into special forces.

722
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,760
But yeah, Sam was an incredible person as well.

723
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,040
You know, everything he's done, you know, just as he was kind of transitioning out,

724
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:16,360
he was actually one of the first people to really start the ball rolling or at least

725
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,560
plant the seed from the Royal Marines perspective for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.

726
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:26,280
And he was training while he was in, really kind of being an advocate and sort of flying

727
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:27,280
that flag.

728
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,120
And then when he left, he set up a charity called Reorg.

729
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:36,000
Now Reorg help veterans, military, but also first responders in the UK.

730
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,040
And that has just blown up and gone huge.

731
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,120
And I've used it in LinkedIn through Sam to other people that have been having issues

732
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:47,760
and struggles from the military and police that I've known that I've put them in contact

733
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:53,080
to local affiliated Brazilian Jiu Jitsu academies through Sam.

734
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:54,640
You know, so it really does work.

735
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,120
And it has a, you can see the benefit of it.

736
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,480
So it's not like a charity and that like, it's kind of here's a load of money to a charity

737
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:04,640
that you kind of don't really sort of feel that you don't get to see what that result

738
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:05,640
is.

739
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:09,240
And Jiu Jitsu is completely different, you know, and with that, while we were talking

740
00:46:09,240 --> 00:46:14,800
through stuff, you know, at the time when I left the special forces and set up through

741
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,840
dark, I was still continuing to train physically training, so running and the gym and everything

742
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,840
else, because it was obviously an integral part of my life and will be till I, till the

743
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,480
day I fucking, I can no longer let my arms or my legs fall off.

744
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:31,720
But it really helped me massively mentally with the stress and everything of leaving

745
00:46:31,720 --> 00:46:37,840
work because for context, when I left the military, it fucking hell, I was spinning

746
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:39,040
some serious plates.

747
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:45,360
I was going through a divorce with my, you know, my wife at the time and my eldest boy,

748
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,640
you know, this we've been together a long time, 13 years, and we were just completely

749
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:49,640
different.

750
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,240
We were married, that relationship broke down, unfortunately.

751
00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:56,120
And you know, we look at it, it's the precursors of being in the military and everything else,

752
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:57,120
we just completely changed.

753
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,760
We got together really young and we were just completely different people.

754
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,800
So I was going through that I was trying to leave the military, trying to set up a new

755
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,720
business and a company, I was going for a financial settlement with her, which was just

756
00:47:08,720 --> 00:47:10,600
I was stressed up to the eyeballs.

757
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,880
And you know, all this kind of anxiety and worry and stress and pressure of all these

758
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:19,600
things compounded, it was just felt like I was, I was spinning multiple plates.

759
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:26,120
And for me, it came at the exact right time that I needed Jiu-Jitsu, I needed something

760
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:33,440
that I could focus my energy and efforts into that wasn't just physical, but more mental.

761
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:39,080
And Jiu-Jitsu is like that for anybody that does Jiu-Jitsu, you know that you get elements

762
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:44,160
of that flow state again, where, you know, I don't meditate, I tried, but I was terrible.

763
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,000
To be honest, I probably just didn't give it enough time.

764
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,600
But for me, Jiu-Jitsu was like the meditation part, it was when you're on task, that's all

765
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:50,600
you think about.

766
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,720
And, you know, and then again, to your point, when you start, it's you're just surviving.

767
00:47:54,720 --> 00:47:58,560
So those kind of white belt periods, and I mentioned this in my book as well about that

768
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,120
white belt, belt mentality and why it's so important.

769
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:05,200
But Sam, it came down to through dark and was like, look, why don't you try Jiu-Jitsu?

770
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:10,080
And for me, I was like, gee, Sam, I'd love to, but I just don't think I can my fucking

771
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:15,560
body, you know, at the time, a few years ago, I was turning 14 in January, about 36, 37,

772
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:19,440
and I was like, mate, my knees are fucked, you know, I've had operations.

773
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,680
My back, I was blown up in Afghanistan in a vehicle, an IED, you know, which compressed

774
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,080
my spine and I've had like bulging discs and herniated discs.

775
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,840
And I was like, I just, I just don't think my body could do it.

776
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:32,040
And he's like, well, why don't you just try it?

777
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,040
See how much you can do, see what you can and can't do.

778
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:38,680
You'll kind of adapt and your own style and your own game around what your body can physically

779
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:39,840
do.

780
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:40,840
So we did.

781
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,760
And then yeah, experience probably all of the same things that you experienced when

782
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:48,520
you came in the first road and I think it affects people in like one of two ways.

783
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:52,200
You either go, wow, what the fuck just happened?

784
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:53,200
What was that?

785
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:54,880
I don't want anything to do with that.

786
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,520
And you run away or you go, wow, what the fuck was that?

787
00:48:58,520 --> 00:48:59,880
I need to learn that.

788
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,680
And thankfully for me, it was, it was the, it was the more former and it was like, shit,

789
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,120
I've boxed, I've kickboxed, you know, I, I've done all this stuff in the military from an

790
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:08,720
armed combat sort of stuff.

791
00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:11,800
And, and it just intrigued me massively.

792
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:13,480
I was like, shit, I need to learn that.

793
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,880
And actually my body, yeah, it felt like I'd been in a car crash or, you know, for the

794
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,000
first kind of six months.

795
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,480
And I sort of pushed and progressed through that, but I'm so glad that I've kind of stuck

796
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:27,960
that out and I've got a massive amount of respect and, and thank yous to, to people

797
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:33,640
like Sam and Mark Ormrod and all these other people that have really helped push Jiu-Jitsu,

798
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,840
but also the real main mission as well to help other people.

799
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:41,360
So, and I've seen that effect that it's had now with training and something that we offer

800
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:45,520
at 3DARC for all the staff to train, but also other people coming in and training as well.

801
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,880
And, you know, Nathan, our instructor as well, and that kind of positive impact it's had.

802
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,240
So yeah, Jiu-Jitsu and Sam and Re-Org have been an incredible part of that.

803
00:49:53,240 --> 00:49:57,640
But, you know, back to your original point again is the gi, you know, so you, you came

804
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,040
down and I think managed to get one of our gi's.

805
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:01,040
Yeah, absolutely.

806
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:04,840
Well, I was just laughing as well to myself thinking, you know, anyone that goes into

807
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,240
to Re-Org where Mark is there and say, oh, you know, I'm worried about my back.

808
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:11,560
And then you look over and Mark's, you know, triple amputee.

809
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:13,720
He's like, I'm sorry, what were you saying, little bitch?

810
00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:14,720
I didn't quite hear it.

811
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:15,720
Yeah, cry me a river.

812
00:50:15,720 --> 00:50:16,720
Cry me a river.

813
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:18,200
Well, that's perspective though, isn't it?

814
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,400
Again, it's days when I think, fuck, I feel tired today.

815
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,040
I'm not sure if I can trail that little inner bitch that just speaks to you.

816
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,880
And then, and then, yeah, you see Mark post up on Instagram that he's just already crushed

817
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,360
two workouts in a day and you think, fuck, you know, yeah, I'll get back to it.

818
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:31,360
Yeah, exactly.

819
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:32,360
Sorry.

820
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:37,960
Well, speaking of the gi, one funny story before I want to get to the book next.

821
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:43,240
The gi that you gave us, we had all seven flags of the countries that we were going

822
00:50:43,240 --> 00:50:46,960
to be in, sewn onto the gi.

823
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,040
You know, we had these big mats that were going and we didn't, I didn't think we realized

824
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:56,480
that every time we got to a country, your, there was some craziness where you had to

825
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,560
like pull off a lot of your luggage and then keep it somewhere and then put it back on

826
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,440
that night, even though you had chartered your own plane.

827
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:03,800
It was really weird.

828
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:07,320
So we had a big jujitsu mat, but it was so big that, you know, they just tried to leave

829
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:08,880
it on the plane as much as we could.

830
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:14,920
But we get to Cairo and the morning we have this beautiful breakfast right by the pyramids.

831
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:19,200
Then we skydive out of a Russian helicopter, land right next to the pyramids.

832
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:24,160
Like a dream fricking thing for any, anyone, especially, you know, quote unquote alpha

833
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:25,160
male.

834
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,220
I mean, that's, that's pretty bad ass.

835
00:51:27,220 --> 00:51:30,680
And Bryce said, Hey, let's try and, let's try and roll in every continent.

836
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,000
We hadn't up to this point and we're like, okay, well he pulled them out.

837
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,720
He goes, we're going to do it in front of the pyramids.

838
00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:37,120
And when I say in front, it's not like where all the tourists are.

839
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:41,520
It's quite a ways away where the landing zone is for the skydivers.

840
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:45,520
Anyway, we get out of the mat and he said that, you know, he'd asked someone, they're

841
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:50,760
like, okay, and we just about to roll and the world loses their fucking mind.

842
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,360
And we're like, what the hell is going on?

843
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,920
Well, I don't think it mattered that we had the Egyptian flag on.

844
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,180
It was the other country's flags on the Ghee.

845
00:51:59,180 --> 00:52:04,280
They took huge offense to it to the point where we're like, Oh shit, hold away.

846
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:10,600
We went and changed out of it again and you know, kind of de-escalated.

847
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,080
But yeah, I mean, it was, it was funny.

848
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:17,000
So the Ghee itself was amazing, but the end, we ended up going back to Dallas and then doing

849
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:21,120
our biggest role then because, you know, after Egypt, we were like, all right, fuck this.

850
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,040
We don't know how offended people are going to get.

851
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:25,840
But yeah, but Egypt's is on there.

852
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:30,160
Like it was just a proud, this is the journey that, but yeah, they, they were not happy

853
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:31,160
at all.

854
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,720
So what you're saying is don't go back to Egypt with the Ghee that you presented me

855
00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:37,160
with all the flags on or I'm going to get strung up.

856
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:38,160
Yeah.

857
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:39,160
Yes.

858
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:40,160
I would say, yeah.

859
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:41,160
Yeah.

860
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,160
Leave the Egyptian one if you want, but take the others off.

861
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:44,160
Yeah.

862
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:45,160
Thank you, mate.

863
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:46,160
So you talked about the book.

864
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,880
I know it's out in the UK now.

865
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,720
It's going to come out here on February 6th.

866
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:55,560
So what made you write the book and then kind of lead us through what people are going to

867
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:57,160
find between the covers?

868
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,160
God, yeah.

869
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:03,160
So the book, yeah, the hard road will take you home.

870
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,160
It's the title of the book.

871
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,280
You know, it's a strange one, isn't it?

872
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:13,280
When you leave our kind of shadowy world of special forces and you kind of stick your

873
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,200
head above the parapet, you know, we, when we first started through dark, we were very

874
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:23,040
conscious of what our kind of online profile was.

875
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:27,080
And you kind of go through this transition of what we will just stay behind, you know,

876
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,240
in the shadows and blur our faces.

877
00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:32,800
And then it got to a point about two years in when it was like, look, we are the brand,

878
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:34,560
you know, this is our background.

879
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:37,400
Like at some point, it feels like you're coming out of the closet.

880
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,320
We're going to have to kind of show people kind of who we are.

881
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:41,320
And we made that decision.

882
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,520
It's a difficult decision as well for people of our background and not a decision you take

883
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:45,520
lightly.

884
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,280
So, you know, that kind of happened naturally through the kind of social media and the website

885
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:50,280
and bits and pieces.

886
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:55,000
You know, then you make the next sort of big bold decision to then go on TV.

887
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:59,160
And then it's kind of on my head's fully above the parapet now.

888
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,680
And then I guess for the most part, you're just worried about what other people will

889
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:03,720
think, which is a real shame, isn't it?

890
00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:04,720
When you break that down.

891
00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:08,240
But I guess it's not worrying about what everybody else thinks.

892
00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:13,600
And I think we are right to worry if it's a trusted opinion and people that you respect

893
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,040
and you know, and people in the special forces are people that, you know, for the most part,

894
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:18,040
I respect.

895
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:22,520
So hence why we were so sort of tentative in our approach in terms of what we did and

896
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:24,280
how we did it.

897
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:29,360
And you know, so going on the TV, we're now sort of six years in the through dark, we're

898
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:30,640
all over kind of social media.

899
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:31,640
What me?

900
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:32,640
I'm saying me as well.

901
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:38,440
And it then got, you know, I was then approached and was for the agency and other people about

902
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,200
what about writing a book?

903
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,560
And at the time it was like, I'm not so sure, you know.

904
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:48,040
But look, for me, I guess we'll start with, you know, it's a very long winded way of answering

905
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,000
your question, but I just want to give context.

906
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,760
And I think let's start with the why.

907
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:54,560
Why did I want to write a book?

908
00:54:54,560 --> 00:55:00,600
Well, for me, when I was, you know, before I joined the military, I had quite a promising

909
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,800
football or soccer career that was lining up.

910
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:06,320
I was playing for England Schoolboys, affiliated with professional football clubs.

911
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,960
You know, I also used to race motocross, had a pretty bad injury.

912
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,000
I had rehabilitation on my knee, first came back, knee went again.

913
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,680
And my kind of dreams and hopes and aspirations of being a professional footballer, you know,

914
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:16,680
kind of ended.

915
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,280
I then went to college, I started playing for British colleges, representing the whole

916
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:24,760
British colleges, and I then got offered a scholarship to play in the United States,

917
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:26,120
University of South Carolina.

918
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,200
That didn't work out because they deemed me to be a professional.

919
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,960
I filled out some amateur eligibility forms incorrectly.

920
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:37,360
So I'm now kind of 17, 18, finishing college, I'm thinking, fuck, you know, now what?

921
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,000
I kind of put all my eggs into that basket.

922
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:44,560
I didn't kind of have a plan B. So I started looking at things that I liked to do.

923
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:46,720
I started working in a local gym.

924
00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:49,000
So I now become a gym instructor, a personal trainer.

925
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:50,400
I do this for a couple of years.

926
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:54,720
And look, I wasn't that academic at school, you know, I enjoyed school for the social

927
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:59,000
aspects and for playing football.

928
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:05,040
So you know, all the kind of books and literature that I was reading at school was always pressed

929
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:08,280
upon me to read and not something that I wanted necessarily to read.

930
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:09,360
It didn't appeal to me.

931
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:14,160
So when I was in the gym, I started reading, but things that interested me and I should

932
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:18,000
get a little bit more mature, you start reading.

933
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,920
And to me, it was all kind of military, military history.

934
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:24,200
And the special forces books in particular, and the Andy MacLeod books really, really

935
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:28,080
spiked my interest in that world and the military.

936
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:31,160
You know, I then go on to join the Marines and special forces.

937
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:35,760
And looking back, that was probably kind of a big precursor for me in terms of joining

938
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:37,700
the military and then special forces.

939
00:56:37,700 --> 00:56:38,700
So that was a kind of why.

940
00:56:38,700 --> 00:56:40,240
So why would you write a book?

941
00:56:40,240 --> 00:56:44,480
Well, actually books inspired me to join the military and then further my career within

942
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:45,480
special forces.

943
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,400
You know, and I enjoyed those those kind of books.

944
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:50,680
But for me, I wanted to do something slightly different with my book.

945
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:55,400
I wanted it to be not just be an autobiography and stories about things that I'd done within

946
00:56:55,400 --> 00:57:01,680
the military or necessarily be a mindset, leadership, resilience, positive kind of book,

947
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:05,800
because those books have been done, you know, and done very well by my counterparts, you

948
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:10,400
know, and Middleton and Foxy and Ollie and Billy, all the guys have kind of owned that

949
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,120
kind of field and done a great job.

950
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:19,360
So what was different about about the book, I thought, was, well, how how can we sort

951
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:25,080
of value add for other people that potentially leave the military like I did and go, well,

952
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:27,400
now what what the fuck can I do?

953
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:31,600
And at the time, you know, you've actually acquired a lot of skills while you've been

954
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:36,280
in these kind of positions and, you know, and in public service and fire and police

955
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:38,360
and military as well.

956
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:42,640
You actually acquire a lot of skills that are applicable to business.

957
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:46,600
And for me, it was about, well, how can I capture this and intertwine my story throughout

958
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:50,080
the whole book in terms of helping people?

959
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,920
And that's, that's the basis of the book, The Hard Road Will Take You Home.

960
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,800
It's kind of what the military elite teaches about endeavor and kind of next level success

961
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:58,160
and how we can apply that.

962
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:01,000
And it kind of broken down through four chapters.

963
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:05,320
It's kind of, you know, the battle prep phase, okay, that in terms of that's a militarism,

964
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:06,320
isn't it?

965
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,640
Battle prep before we go on to a mission, you know, we break a mission down.

966
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,320
And how do we prepare and set ourselves up to success for that?

967
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:12,920
And that's what I was trying to say.

968
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:18,960
Within each chapter, I then kind of give a military example, a personal example, and

969
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:23,800
then a business example, and kind of then sort of end the chapter with kind of a debrief

970
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:27,000
and action points as well at the end.

971
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:30,520
So you know, as we look, you know, for me, that's, that was the whole premise of the

972
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:31,520
book.

973
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:36,960
How can I kind of impart the things that I've learned and that I feel are actually applicable

974
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:41,440
to not just business and the military, but also to your personal life as well.

975
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:45,840
So for the most part, you know, I think we've done a pretty good job up until this point,

976
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:47,080
and it's different as well.

977
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:52,360
So yeah, it was released in the UK on the on the 2nd of November, it's going really

978
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:55,320
well and a massive thank you to everybody who supported as well.

979
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:56,320
I had the same.

980
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,320
And again, I can't claim claim everything for myself.

981
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:00,320
I'm certainly not an author.

982
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:05,240
I can't claim that I sat down and locked myself in a room for four days and wrote this book.

983
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:11,200
I had a huge amount of help from my ghostwriter, Matt Allen, who's incredible, you know, the

984
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:16,480
amount of hours that we spent, you know, like this over the over the phone or via a zoom

985
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:20,800
link and just talking about him sort of extracting information from me and stories and everything

986
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:21,800
else.

987
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:26,000
And, you know, he was a ghostwriter for Foxy and for NIMS and for other people as well

988
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:27,680
at Usain Bolt, bits and pieces.

989
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:28,680
I knew I was in good hands.

990
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:32,200
It's then just trying to make it all make sense and come together.

991
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:35,760
And for the most part, we've done a pretty good job of that.

992
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:40,760
So yeah, the book, The Hard Road will take you home is, as you suggest, it's available

993
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:41,760
in the US as well.

994
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:47,960
But I'm hoping it just provides more than just a military kind of touch and feel in

995
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:51,400
terms of how people can apply the things that I've learned and lessons through life and

996
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,840
business as well.

997
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:58,480
The term quiet professionals, I think, is a great term, but sometimes you can be too

998
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:02,440
quiet and do a disservice to your profession.

999
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:04,640
And the perfect example is the American Fire Service.

1000
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:08,880
And people in 2023 will say, why is there a fire engine on my medical call?

1001
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:11,040
You know, or I mean, just a number of things.

1002
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:12,320
You know, what are we buying you?

1003
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:13,640
And they see us in the store.

1004
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:17,240
What are we buying you thinking our tax their tax money is going to to our food?

1005
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:21,920
You know, so I think it's important for professions to tell their stories.

1006
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:23,680
And like you said, not all the stories.

1007
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:27,560
I mean, it's funny because the classified stuff is almost irrelevant.

1008
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:30,840
The average person doesn't need to know which mountain you are on, who you were chasing.

1009
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:32,720
You know, it's the human experience.

1010
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:36,680
So I think you can do that without, you know, giving away things that shouldn't be given

1011
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:38,100
away.

1012
01:00:38,100 --> 01:00:43,040
But also the other thing where our careers are professions parallel is, as you said,

1013
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:44,040
that transition out.

1014
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:48,980
It's amazing how many police officers go into security, how many firefighters just go to

1015
01:00:48,980 --> 01:00:54,680
a paramedic college or a fire college and just teach how many special operations, special

1016
01:00:54,680 --> 01:01:00,040
forces fires, then go into contracting or, you know, close protection.

1017
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:03,480
But just like you touched on, I'm really excited to read the book.

1018
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:08,720
We don't realize, you know, the actual soft skills, hard skills that we got can be applied

1019
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:09,720
in a thousand ways.

1020
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:14,360
And the real common denominator that I've found from people that transition from our

1021
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:19,960
professions into, you know, what's next, is trying to find a way of giving back.

1022
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:23,040
Now, you know, you could argue that security is giving back, you know, if you're at the

1023
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:28,200
front of a store or something, but you can take that skill set that you have and do something

1024
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:29,520
incredible in the world.

1025
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:31,040
You're just not wearing a uniform anymore.

1026
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:32,200
Your service doesn't end.

1027
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:37,800
And I find that the catharsis, the people that transition healthily, they would, their

1028
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:39,800
service burns in their heart.

1029
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:44,220
So if they can find a way of giving back with that skill set, doesn't necessarily have to

1030
01:01:44,220 --> 01:01:47,160
exactly match what they did in uniform.

1031
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:51,800
That seems to be the superpower for the military veteran or the first responder.

1032
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:53,280
I think so.

1033
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:58,360
And you can do that through multiple ways as well, especially now with access to information

1034
01:01:58,360 --> 01:01:59,960
and through dark as well.

1035
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:02,680
And, you know, as we looked at this as me and Louis set up the business, it was all

1036
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:04,720
about who do we want to be?

1037
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:05,720
What's the mission?

1038
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:06,720
What's the message?

1039
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,000
And it was, you know, our straplines endeavor through adversity.

1040
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:14,160
It was all about being an aspirational brand, aspiring and inspiring people to get outside,

1041
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:18,040
to push themselves physically and mentally, to become the best version of themselves so

1042
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,800
that, you know, look, it's cliched, isn't it?

1043
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:24,680
If you look after yourself, first and foremost, you get yourself physically fit and mentally

1044
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:29,560
fit and resilient and robust, you have then have such a positive impact on everybody in

1045
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:31,200
your life and all the people that you touch.

1046
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:35,640
You know, it's, it seems obvious, but, you know, for the most part, you know, books do

1047
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:38,080
this as well, you know, and they help people.

1048
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:42,720
And not everything, not every part of the book will talk to people in perhaps the way

1049
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:44,480
that you hope or think that it will.

1050
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:49,320
But if people can take one or two things from these books and through social media and through,

1051
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:53,720
you know, inspiring people through a workout and things, because I do it, I look at, you

1052
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:57,480
know, Instagram and I just follow the things that are positive and that I like and, you

1053
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:02,960
know, and just eradicate anything that's bullshit and negative and not serving you, then I get

1054
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:04,480
inspired by other people that I follow.

1055
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:08,000
You know, if I'm having a bad day or I don't feel like training, I see something on my

1056
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:09,000
shit.

1057
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:10,000
Yeah.

1058
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:12,760
You know, like you're more my comrade and people, I just think, shit, like that just

1059
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:14,960
inspires me to get out and motivates me.

1060
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:18,440
And there's little things from books that I still remember now and everything else.

1061
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:26,120
So yeah, it's, it was a nostalgic sort of process to write the book and I actually quite

1062
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:27,120
enjoyed it.

1063
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:31,200
But, you know, it was the best part of 16 to 18 months, you know, getting this book

1064
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:36,160
through, rightly so, through the security cell and disclosure to make sure that there

1065
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:40,400
wasn't anything in there that was, you know, putting anybody that is currently still serving,

1066
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:45,240
you know, in any jeopardy or releasing anything or information that wasn't, you know, that

1067
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:46,560
shouldn't have been released.

1068
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:51,560
So, you know, finally we got it over the line and we are where we are.

1069
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:55,840
So yeah, I'm excited to sort of see how it goes and I'm excited to hear your feedback

1070
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:56,840
as well, James.

1071
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:57,840
Absolutely.

1072
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:01,120
Well, I want to hit one more area and then go to some closing questions.

1073
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:06,120
Again, when we spoke last time, the US was still in Afghanistan.

1074
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:13,320
Then since we had the withdrawal, a lot of people had on the show that are Afghan themselves,

1075
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:18,360
you know, in Afghanistan and obviously a lot of veterans that had a pretty jarring impact

1076
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:23,720
to a lot of people that, you know, lost brothers and sisters over there, lost limbs, lost their

1077
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:24,720
mental health.

1078
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:28,960
I mean, there's a lot of cost, a huge cost, obviously, and then the families as well.

1079
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:33,160
What was your perception and your kind of, you know, your friend's circles perception

1080
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:34,160
of that?

1081
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:40,620
Well, rather than me giving my friends sort of perception, I'd rather just give my kind

1082
01:04:40,620 --> 01:04:42,680
of take on it and for what it's worth.

1083
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:49,160
I think, you know, since 2008 to probably 2014, you know, I had five operational tours

1084
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:50,160
in Afghanistan.

1085
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:54,960
So, you know, I had some skin in the game, lost friends as well and fellow operators,

1086
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:57,520
you know, on tours and saw some pretty horrific things.

1087
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:01,480
You know, I saw the worst in humanity, but I don't look at it like that.

1088
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:05,980
I also saw some of the very best in people in humanity as well in terms of service and

1089
01:05:05,980 --> 01:05:07,120
helping the people.

1090
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,960
I can't stand here today and say that it was all for nothing.

1091
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:14,600
I don't believe that and I don't buy into that narrative.

1092
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:19,560
You know, the job and the role that we were doing at that time was absolutely required

1093
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:20,560
and needed.

1094
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:25,440
And look at all the positives that it did have in terms of you can only help someone

1095
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:29,000
and some people, you know, to the best of your ability with everything you know and

1096
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,400
have at your disposal at that time, you know.

1097
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:35,960
And it's like, you know, in its simplest, you know, kind of form, if you break this

1098
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:39,640
down, it's, you know, you can run across and see a mug in somewhere or something that's

1099
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:40,640
not right.

1100
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:41,640
And if you break this down, it wasn't right.

1101
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:48,560
It needed help and it needed support and, you know, across a wide spectrum from government

1102
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:53,880
to, you know, policing to military to education, you know, all these kinds of touch points,

1103
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:59,320
which we went in there with the right intentions and also to eradicate, you know, an oppressive

1104
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:01,400
regime in terms of the Taliban.

1105
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:08,200
And you know, for the most part, I feel like we did that and it was mission success.

1106
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:14,960
Listen, at the end, when, you know, the way that, you know, the forces and the military

1107
01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:22,800
withdrew, I just really kind of, I feel like we let them down, you know, but also ourselves

1108
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:27,960
in terms of all the energy and efforts and the blood, the sweat, the tears and everything

1109
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:29,800
else that went into that place, you know.

1110
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:34,680
And I do think we had a net positive effect, but, you know, I think it's, we shouldn't

1111
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:37,160
look at it now and say, well, it's back to how it was, you know.

1112
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:40,600
I don't think it is back to how it was, you know, certainly in terms of how it's ruled,

1113
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:44,680
but in terms of who is, you know, controlling those provinces and et cetera.

1114
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:48,560
But, you know, I think it did have a positive effect for the most part on other people and

1115
01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:50,200
at least gave people hope.

1116
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:54,000
What's the main thing that people need and want in life and it's fucking hope, you know.

1117
01:06:54,000 --> 01:07:00,320
And I think we enabled for the most part, people to have hope and open their eyes to

1118
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:04,040
a different way of living and operating throughout their daily lives.

1119
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:07,800
And, you know, it's fucking horrendous, isn't it?

1120
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:14,000
The best part of 20 years, you know, and how much money and everything else that went into

1121
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:15,000
that place.

1122
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:18,640
It's, I try and always look for the positives in everything.

1123
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:22,120
And it's not because I'm blinded or anything else like that, but I just, I do generally

1124
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:26,200
feel like we were in there for the right reasons, you know, and doing the best that we could

1125
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:30,240
do and everybody else as well and our partners and Five Eye Nations as well.

1126
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:36,600
So it was a real shame to see how it ended and kind of how we kind of withdrew out of

1127
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:37,600
there.

1128
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:41,400
I think we just let them down, let the people down and for some part let ourselves down

1129
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:42,400
as well.

1130
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:46,200
Yeah, well, thank you because it's your voices that we need to hear.

1131
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:47,680
You were the people that were there.

1132
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:51,360
And the question I normally ask, you know, when we're talking about combat, I think I

1133
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:55,960
asked you in the first one, you know, was what was some of the things that you witnessed

1134
01:07:55,960 --> 01:08:01,360
as far as the horrors that were happening to the native people that you were there to

1135
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:02,360
take care of?

1136
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:03,360
So that was been a part of the job.

1137
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:06,560
And the other side of the question was the kindness and compassion, which you touched

1138
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:11,480
on again, you know, the beautiful people that you were there to protect and you were serving

1139
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:12,480
alongside.

1140
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:16,520
So I heard so many stories of differences that were made.

1141
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:21,640
But then, you know, if I've had people, you know, as you said, it shook them because they

1142
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:23,400
gave everything to protect those people.

1143
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:27,240
And then the way that we were withdrawn and then the Afghan people now, I mean, they're

1144
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:30,520
in the middle of a winter, they're starving, they're freezing to death.

1145
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:32,320
I mean, and then you have the Taliban as well.

1146
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:38,720
So again, like the COVID conversation, now we have an opportunity to assess and be like,

1147
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,760
if we could do it again, how would we do it differently?

1148
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:47,240
And it seems like a lot of your community, American, Australian, UK, there seems to be

1149
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:55,000
a kind of agreement that if we'd gone in more with focusing on your community, go in there,

1150
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,280
take out the targets that need to be taken out, shut down the training camps and then

1151
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:03,120
get out again, that it would have, you know, would have not seemed like an occupation and

1152
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,240
create more enemies, etc, etc.

1153
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:10,640
So for you personally, you're king for a day, you get to strategize how we would do it.

1154
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:11,640
What would you have done differently?

1155
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:15,040
Oh, geez, I think that's such a difference.

1156
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:18,480
You know, and even if you're king, you'd need to be king for longer than a day and you'd

1157
01:09:18,480 --> 01:09:20,440
need more than a magic wand.

1158
01:09:20,440 --> 01:09:22,680
I feel, you know, it's so complex.

1159
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:26,120
And this is the reason, you know, you can't fix something like this.

1160
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:27,120
And I spoke about it early.

1161
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:29,360
Foxy was in the gym earlier.

1162
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:32,960
We were training and we were talking about, you know, Gaza and all the kind of fucking

1163
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:34,600
atrocities and everything else that's happening there.

1164
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:39,400
But it's not just this, wherever the fucking media tend to shine their gaze.

1165
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:43,720
You know, if you look at the Congo as well and everywhere else in Yemen and all these

1166
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:49,280
fucking places where there's just a madness, the world is a madness and you cannot beat

1167
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:50,280
an ideology.

1168
01:09:50,280 --> 01:09:51,720
You can't beat a religion.

1169
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:53,480
You know, you just can't.

1170
01:09:53,480 --> 01:10:02,360
And trying to come in and add your values or impart and impose your value systems onto

1171
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:03,360
other people.

1172
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:04,360
It doesn't work.

1173
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:06,080
And I think that's what we tried to do.

1174
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:10,480
And for the most part, we did it with the right intention, you know, and intentions

1175
01:10:10,480 --> 01:10:11,480
everything, isn't it?

1176
01:10:11,480 --> 01:10:15,440
You know, and but I think even if you're working for a day, you'd hope for peace, wouldn't

1177
01:10:15,440 --> 01:10:16,440
you?

1178
01:10:16,440 --> 01:10:18,880
You'd just say, you know, forget all this other stuff.

1179
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:23,360
And you know, your imaginary person is better than my imaginary person, you know, and everything

1180
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:24,360
else.

1181
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:26,160
What's wrong with just being a good person?

1182
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:29,760
But unfortunately, the world is not full of good people.

1183
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:34,680
There are bad people in the world that want to do harm to good people.

1184
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:38,200
And thankfully, there are people that are willing to step up to the plate and protect

1185
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:40,440
the people that are innocent or can't protect themselves.

1186
01:10:40,440 --> 01:10:42,080
And that's what it comes down to.

1187
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:47,360
Ultimately, there are people that are damaged, that are that are that are evil.

1188
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:50,600
You know, someone's definition of evil is different to somebody else's.

1189
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:52,720
And then, you know, where do you step in?

1190
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:57,440
You know, you can and it's simplest for me, look at a playground fight between kids.

1191
01:10:57,440 --> 01:11:00,240
And when does it become not a fair fight anymore?

1192
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:04,480
You know, in terms of how many people are involved, is the kid bigger, older, stronger?

1193
01:11:04,480 --> 01:11:05,480
When do you step in?

1194
01:11:05,480 --> 01:11:06,480
When's the right time to step in?

1195
01:11:06,480 --> 01:11:07,480
Who makes that decision?

1196
01:11:07,480 --> 01:11:08,480
Who makes that call?

1197
01:11:08,480 --> 01:11:12,520
But ultimately, you could just shake the kids fighting and just say, just get along and

1198
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:13,520
be nice.

1199
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:14,880
Isn't that wouldn't that be a great thing?

1200
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:19,120
But listen, I'm a realist and that is not how the world is shaped up.

1201
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:20,120
Beautiful.

1202
01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:22,600
Well, again, thank you for your perspective.

1203
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:27,120
So last question before we make sure everyone knows where to find ThruDark and you online.

1204
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:28,120
What's next for ThruDark?

1205
01:11:28,120 --> 01:11:32,520
You know, you had this amazing cold weather line, Nims Ward and some of his expeditions.

1206
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:38,440
You know, what are you projecting to be exciting products to look for growth, etc. in the next

1207
01:11:38,440 --> 01:11:39,440
five or 10 years?

1208
01:11:39,440 --> 01:11:40,440
Yeah.

1209
01:11:40,440 --> 01:11:47,000
So, I mean, I can take over the world, James, you know, I think for us, you know, six years

1210
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,480
in now, we're in such an incredible position.

1211
01:11:49,480 --> 01:11:54,320
And, you know, as the business grows, we get access to better people.

1212
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:58,800
So you know, what is the definitive thing that has made ThruDark a success is the people

1213
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:02,480
the people that we have involved with ThruDark that are working with us to ultimately push

1214
01:12:02,480 --> 01:12:04,280
and drive ThruDark to success.

1215
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:08,640
And, you know, we're about 40 staff strong now.

1216
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:11,720
I spoke earlier about me and Luis spinning plates on our own.

1217
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:15,600
But now we're in a good position where we have, you know, the team is growing and we've

1218
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:20,560
got incredibly gifted people within the business across brand and products and, you know, the

1219
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:22,440
people, product and process and everything else.

1220
01:12:22,440 --> 01:12:23,800
And the wave is growing.

1221
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:25,240
It's getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

1222
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:28,560
And, you know, we're excited to see where this takes us, you know, but we want to take

1223
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:29,560
it all the way.

1224
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:36,120
We want to be recognized as the most technical, most authentic, incredible outdoor clothing

1225
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:37,880
brand in the world.

1226
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:40,760
For us in terms of where we wanted to be, you know, we're authentic.

1227
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:44,180
We design, develop and test the kit ourselves, myself and Luis.

1228
01:12:44,180 --> 01:12:49,640
But as the team grows, you know, we get access to better fabric mills, better factories and

1229
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:50,640
everybody else as well.

1230
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:55,320
So the company is moving in a fantastic kind of trajectory at the moment.

1231
01:12:55,320 --> 01:12:57,560
And we're excited to see where the future takes us.

1232
01:12:57,560 --> 01:13:02,720
You know, we've got ideas, we've just released a Ghost Range, which is for exclusively available

1233
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:07,840
to the military and police as well.

1234
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:12,000
So we've got those kind of avenues working on at the moment and more kind of investment

1235
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:14,920
from other people, the company's growing people.

1236
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:15,920
Everything's improving.

1237
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:16,920
So I'm really excited.

1238
01:13:16,920 --> 01:13:19,000
You know, we're in this for the long haul.

1239
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:22,440
You know, we've got a sort of five to 10 year vision and goal of kind of where we want to

1240
01:13:22,440 --> 01:13:23,440
be.

1241
01:13:23,440 --> 01:13:28,080
You know, America is probably the next one, isn't it, after the UK and Europe and everything

1242
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:30,120
else and then into Asia and everything else.

1243
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:34,680
So we're excited, excited to see where we can take this and support more people and

1244
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:36,400
more endeavors as well.

1245
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:39,360
So where are the best places to find ThruDark online?

1246
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:42,120
And then what about yourself on social media?

1247
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:52,200
Yeah, so ThruDark online, it is just Google search, it's www.thrudark.com.

1248
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:57,080
We ship as well internationally and across our social media platforms is ThruDark, again,

1249
01:13:57,080 --> 01:13:58,080
T-H-R-U-D-A-R-K.

1250
01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:06,120
For mine personally, it's Stas ThruDark, S-T-A-Z-T-H-R-U-D-A-R-K, Stas ThruDark, and Louis as well as Louis

1251
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:07,120
ThruDark.

1252
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:10,640
But it's the usual social media platforms.

1253
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:16,080
But be careful, once you click on any ThruDark ad, our wizards and backend geeks will be

1254
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:22,480
attacking you with all the usual spam and adverts and everything else, which I make

1255
01:14:22,480 --> 01:14:23,480
no apologies.

1256
01:14:23,480 --> 01:14:25,600
So yeah, it's just the websites and bits and pieces, mate.

1257
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:26,600
But yeah, thank you.

1258
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:27,600
Beautiful, mate.

1259
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:29,240
Well, again, I want to thank you so much.

1260
01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:31,280
I mean, it was a great conversation with you and Louis.

1261
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:36,320
And like I said, if anyone wants to listen to that, it was episode 283.

1262
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:38,480
This one has been a great, you know, great catch up.

1263
01:14:38,480 --> 01:14:43,320
I mean, obviously, we got to break bread in Dubai, and here we are now having this conversation.

1264
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:47,760
But I'm excited post pandemic, you know, as people are starting to ramp up and hopefully

1265
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:53,560
the understanding of a little suffering in our lives, exercise, daylight, community that

1266
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:55,200
aligns perfectly with what you're doing.

1267
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:58,400
So I want to thank you so much for taking your time and coming back on the Behind the

1268
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:01,280
Shield podcast today.

1269
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:02,280
Thank you, mate.

1270
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:13,800
I appreciate it.