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This episode is sponsored by NuCalm.

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And as many of you know, I only bring sponsors onto this show

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whose products I truly swear by.

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Now, we are an overworked and underslept population,

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especially those of us that wear uniform for a living.

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Now, for most of us that come off shift, we are A, exhausted,

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And you can find even more information on New Calm dot com.

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Welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast. As always, my name is James Gearing,

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and this week it is my absolute honor to welcome on the show actor,

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jiu-jitsu practitioner and volunteer firefighter, Johnny Lee Miller.

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Now, when I was younger, one of the most powerful films I watched was Trainspotting,

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and Johnny was one of the stars of that film.

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So you can understand how humbled I was to hear not only his journey through the world of acting,

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but also his courageously vulnerable storytelling on his own addiction and recovery.

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So we discuss a host of topics, from entering the world of drama at a very young age,

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the highs and lows of fame, the tools he used to overcome his own addiction,

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the healing power of jiu-jitsu, his call to service in the firefighter uniform, and so much more.

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One more thing I want to mention, I don't know what happened, I was traveling when I did this recording,

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but somehow clearly I didn't plug in my microphone, so you will hear on my side the audio quality isn't as good as normal.

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However, Johnny's is amazing and that's the one that counts.

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Now, before we get to this incredibly powerful conversation, as I say every week, please just take a moment.

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Go to whichever app you listen to this on, subscribe to the show, leave feedback and leave a rating.

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Every single five-star rating truly does elevate this podcast, therefore making it easier for others to find.

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And this is a free library of almost 900 episodes now.

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So all I ask in return is that you help share these incredible men and women stories,

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so I can get them to every single person on planet Earth who needs to hear them.

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So with that being said, I introduce to you Johnny Lee Miller. Enjoy.

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Johnny, very first thing, I want to say a couple of thank yous.

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Firstly, thank you to you for even connecting with me on social media, but also thank you to Bobby Burke,

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who I think was a catalyst to this conversation, an amazing actor, a volunteer firefighter for 22 years now.

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Obviously, there's some synergy there because you just entered that profession or that volunteer profession yourself.

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So thank you to Bobby and I also want to say welcome to the Behind the Shield podcast today.

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Thank you very much for having me. I shall try and get over my imposter syndrome.

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Don't worry, it's on both sides of the mic, I promise.

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Actually, Bobby, so not only do we have all these similarities, but we live in adjoining neighborhoods in Fire Island.

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So he's a captain in the Ocean Beach Fire Department and the next town over is my town, Ocean Bay Park.

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And that's the department I joined. So I knew about him through my from I'd heard talk of him,

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his legendary status in my neighborhood, there's lots of mutual friends.

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Well, against imposter syndrome, we did a second one and he was like, I don't think I've got anything worth listening to to say, you know,

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and I'm like, trust me, you're an incredible human being, you know, parallel to your Hollywood career,

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you volunteered for 22 years, you know, doing what we do, a lot of people listening and get paid to do.

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So, yeah, I think that imposter syndrome, that humility, I think, you know, more often than not, it's coming from a good place.

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Yeah, OK.

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All right. Well, very first question, where on planet Earth are we finding you this afternoon?

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I'm in New York City in Brooklyn, in my flat.

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Beautiful. Well, people listening can probably tell that's not where you were born and bred.

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So let's start at the very beginning of your timeline.

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Tell me where you were born and tell me a little bit about your family dynamic, what your parents did, how many siblings?

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OK, my I was born in Kingston upon Thames, which is a suburb of London in the United Kingdom.

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And I was the I am one of two children to Alan and Anne, and they were both they both worked in television and stage management.

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So my dad, when I was born, was working at the BBC.

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He worked there for a very long time, you know, over 20 years in production management, like basically the television equivalent of a stage manager.

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And my mother, that's where they had met.

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She did a similar job, but she left when my sister was born.

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So there's me and my sister, my older sister.

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And we grew up sort of very sort of lower middle class in in Nice Park, Kingston, which is a great place to grow up because you're really close to London.

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If you want to go there on a train real quick, but you've got like Richmond Park nearby.

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So you've got this sort of it's almost like the countryside.

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Richmond Park is a beautiful place to to grow up.

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And yeah, so I also have like a bunch.

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I have two older half sisters from my dad's previous marriage, and we saw them a lot growing up as well.

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So before we get to the BBC, there's some things I want to ask you, because I know you had a quite a unique lens as far as a child growing up with parents in that arena that we all revered.

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Talk to me about the role that your grandfather played, because as a stunt man myself, the absolute pinnacle of, you know, films when it comes to a young English boy that dreams of becoming a stuntman is the James Bond series.

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So tell me about your granddad and what he did.

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Yeah, my granddad, Bernard Lee, was my this is my my mom's dad, my maternal grandfather.

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He yeah, so he was in the James Bond movies, first 11 and.

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A really great larger than life character, I can still sort of hear his voice and, you know, he was a lovely man.

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He died when I was still quite young, I think I was eight, but I remember being very upset.

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So I never really got any we never went to any, you know, bond sets or anything like that.

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And but but but the one thing that is he was quite he was very prolific actor and he had a very interesting life.

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He served in World War Two in the Royal Sussex Division, Royal Sussex Regiment.

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I think that's the right way to say it was promoted to captain through because they kept losing all their captains.

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I don't know if he if he was commissioned. I don't I don't imagine he was, but people got promoted.

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Quite a lot of battlefield promotions in World War Two. So battlefield commissions. So after that, he just sort of he got into acting.

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And I think he had been a music hall kind of guy before the war, actually was in a company with a man called Arthur Askey.

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And you might know who that is. That might be where he met my grandmother.

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And then so after he started doing it like so, you know, grandpa was in like the third man and and made over 100 movies.

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And my mom would tell stories about growing up in Hounslow, West, West, West London and coming home and, you know,

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Robert Mitchum sitting there having a drink with with with my granddad and then insisting on going out and playing rounders with my my my mom and all her school friends and stuff.

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So there was this sort of, you know, he lived that kind of life where he was a very down to earth, working class kind of guy, my granddad.

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But he mixed in these circles of like minded people who kind of liked having fun at work.

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So there was that that sort of, you know, having that connection to the movies was was pretty cool growing up.

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But it was it didn't really it just sort of reinforced that kind of showbiz sort of vibe in the family. Like everyone had an opinion on on different things you would watch or how things were done or how things were made,

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particularly having stage manager type parents because they were behind the scenes making stuff.

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It's amazing how many people of his generation were World War Two veterans. So when you watch some of them play in the tough guy role, you're like, it seems like super believable.

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And then you discover, yeah, like, you know, James Cagney or something. Look at that, right.

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There's a guy from It's a Wonderful Life, James. Jimmy Stewart. Jimmy Stewart. Thank you. Yeah.

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He was all these these actors that we revered were veterans and ironically, a lot of the ones that portrayed the kind of heroes that when we were growing up, John Wayne, Schwarzenegger, Stallone, none of them actually did.

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So I always look back and look and say we were kind of raised on a facade, two dimensional version of masculinity, which was fun to watch when you were a teenager.

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But then these young boys grow into soldiers and firefighters and police officers. And it's actually detrimental.

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This stoic boys don't cry, you know, rub some dirt in it stuff because these people were portraying it were never actually serving, never actually in combat.

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But if you look at the Jimmy Stewart's and those were the real man, they never portrayed that invincible RoboCop type male lead.

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No, and I think that's why they were such great actors as well. They had an authenticity because they didn't because they were that they didn't have to.

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You know, now you get the kind of the method guys or, you know, if you look at he, you know, had them all running around with guns and learning how to do this to get that because you have to, you know, you can't just go off to war in order to be convincing in a role.

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But I think, you know, Steve McQueen is another great example of that.

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He was a Marine and had this this vulnerability to him, I think, you know, people remember the king of cool and all that.

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But the wonderful thing about about his performances, I think, is there's a there's kind of a lightness of touch and a vulnerability to it.

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Which you know, because you don't have to over project your masculinity because it's all the masculinity. I shouldn't really say that you don't have to over project your confidence because it's there.

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You know what I mean? Yeah, well, the masculinity is the word because that was what we were told that was.

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Yeah, non toxic masculinity. I mean, you know, you know what I mean?

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Yeah, absolutely. Now, with that being said, so fast forward now, you are you're kind of able to get backstage at the BBC sometimes.

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I talk with with, you know, real kind of fondness about children's television when we were growing up.

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So top of the pops, you know, news, John Craver's Newsround, Blue Peter.

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There was a lot of really positive television for kids.

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You know, I mean, really, really was, you know, there's people in another country and they're starving.

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Let's do jumble sales. That's, you know, do do races and walks and it's raise money and help people is really community based and altruistic.

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What was it like actually being in the middle of that, being in the BBC and seeing some of these shows firsthand?

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I mean, I was very young, so you're kind of just starstruck and they would have so they would have these.

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They have these little areas called galleries and it's a gallery up in the studio roof.

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And it's a little windowed viewing area. So it's up high, very high in the top corner of these studios.

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You could go into the galleries and whichever studio it was had its own gallery and look at what the work that was being done.

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I remember being up there, I remember watching, you know, my Blue Peter heroes rehearsing like Leslie Judd, you know, and these these people that you just kind of worshipped.

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And you're like, there they are, you know, practicing making something out of the fairy liquid bottle.

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And then I remember watching top of the pops rehearsals.

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They're watching because before the days of pop videos, you had the dancers would when they couldn't get the star to come to the show, they would have dancers instead of playing their pop video.

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Then I think the dance, what are they called? They were called Lengson Co or Pan's and Pan's people like the dance troupe.

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I remember watching them rehearsing to a Johnny Mathis song. I'm so old.

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So yeah, it was it was it was like an incredible like, you know, you felt like, you know, you felt you felt special to be an insider and then you but then you'd also be walking down the corridors of television center.

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And you'd go to the outside scene, and you'd walk past half a Dalek mind blowing, you know, but but you know, you start to you start to sort of, you know, you get that little thing like, yeah, yeah, I'm on, you know, I know how it's made.

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I'm on the inside kind of, you know, when you're a kid, you like to feel like you're part of the team.

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We have this whole legacy, you know, behind you. Were you dreaming of acting when you were young, or was there something else you were thinking about as well?

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I don't know about dreaming about I think it was.

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I think it was I was quite performative, believe it or not, like, as a little kid, I used to make jokes a lot and I used to like making my school friends laugh.

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I used to make that a lot. And I think I was just, I mean, it's an interesting like looking back, it's always interesting because, you know, things were not always as, as, as happy at home, as they appeared to be.

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And there's, I find it a very interesting question about people who want to be, you know, in in show business, and my son actually is just not interested at all.

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And he sort of kind of was a little bit and then he but he's not maybe he secretly is but I see that as kind of a healthy thing.

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Because he doesn't need. He's not looking for attention from other places.

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And I find that interesting. I don't know, you know, I'm not saying that it's like, it's sort of an interesting question to me and I don't have the answers or anything and I'm not saying that everybody that gets into show business is desperate show off.

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But there's something to needing to be heard.

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So anyway, so I was doing that but it was like, and then I was, you know, and I felt you feel connected because your parents always talking about the business or this or that, you know, dad's bringing home scripts of top of the pops believe it or not they have scripts they had all the lyrics

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and the songs written out on it and then what the presenter would say and blah blah blah. And so you feel like this but and you know, you know that it's a sort of a family tradition not only was my grandfather and actor but his father was a musical performer.

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So you kind of feel like, I guess it's entitlement right, but in the same way that you might be a line of police officers or you might be a line of doctors from generation to generation those things happen.

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But then I remember doing like school plays and like the little class assemblies or whatever, and you do it and I would do a good job and then all your classmates are like, that was great man was so funny it was good.

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And the minute as a child you get encouragement and your peers, especially like give you a pat on the back, then you're like, oh, maybe maybe this is something

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you know maybe that's something fun and then and then you know if you have fun doing something and you sort of doing it as a hobby and it can turn into a job maybe that's that's it just sort of happens.

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So many people in uniform men and women in uniform struggle. And when that discussion is brought up. They're normally told well it's what you saw in Fallujah or it's you know it was the Grenfell fire, you know it was it was something current day when you were in uniform.

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And as I've become more educated, you know from listening to so many people whether it's lived experience or the clinical side. I started realizing that the period of time before we ever put the uniform on is so important to acknowledge and look into if you're going to talk

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about the holistic human being and their mental health and or addiction journey.

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And when you look back now with this wiser lens that you have at that childhood that you touched that you touched, you know on maybe if not completely idyllic none of us I did it to be honest but what would you kind of look at as some of the challenges for that young boy then

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growing up in your family dynamic.

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Well, what I discovered through therapy,

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which just I can't recommend enough man, we can get into that later but that's like,

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nothing was talked about.

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Now and that might sound a little

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soft and just get on with it but communication is so huge and there was some pretty major things going down in my household

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to do with other members of my family are health wise.

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And, you know,

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so I don't really, I can't really go into that, but nothing was ever talked about. And then my parents were not good together, they were not getting on and there was a lot of, you know, there was a lot of tension and a lot of, you know, arguing and

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and I had vibes for years and years and years and years, and it affected me and my sister very, very poorly.

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What yeah, what.

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So, you know, it can't help but have an effect on how you interpret the rest of the world right and and how you carry on through and, you know, personally I did, I ended up quite, quite, you know, emotionally stunted because of that.

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And I was really not developing in the ways that I think help now I'd kind of know that you know I'm more healthy to do so it's very important to me with my, with my son to communication is top of the list.

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Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I think it's, it's, I could probably count on a couple of hands a number of people to come on the show that haven't had elements that were, you know, basically detrimental in their early years that they probably have to deal with

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later on, this is a human experience. And so whether it's acting or musicians or police officers or soldiers or firefighters.

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You know, this is this is the thing is that when you look back now, a lot of people were going through the same kind of things and, you know, you look at the Maslow's hierarchy of needs security and some of these other things.

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If a child doesn't feel like you said loved communicated with, you know, secure, whether it's around addiction whether it's adoption or, you know, this the middle child that feels on love whatever it is that the traumas are all different but the perception is the same

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and if it's left on addressed, it might be, you know, leaving a military unit or it might be becoming a celebrity it might be a number of things that kind of finally have this draw the broke the camel's back and I think this is so important for us now better late than never to have these conversations to help other people of our age but also to let, as you said, the generation beneath us and my son is the same.

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I talked to him about everything so that hopefully they can they can learn from our mistakes and realize that as I touched on earlier, a man is not this two dimensional robot a man is strong when he needs to be and kind and compassionate and vulnerable at other times too.

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Yeah, I was a very timid.

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I was I was I was friendly and I was I was out there and I had a really good time at junior school as a kid but I was very very timid and and especially as a teenager then became very, very confused and I was not like a like a tough like a strong kid.

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I was very overly sensitive and very, you know, and I think I kind of, I kind of tried to compensate with that slowly throughout my life, you know, I tried to look to different martial arts and I tried to become like a tough person.

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You know, I tried to do that and manufacture it but when it's sort of built on on top of a weak foundation, as you say it's there's, you know, you can't really you can deal with those things that come your way, different lifestyle choices that you make, trying to be a big boy.

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You can deal with that to a certain extent but it's going to come crashing down at some point without that foundation.

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No, it does completely. It's funny because I started martial arts for the same reason I was very, very meek.

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And even when I was winning titles and stuff.

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I still that imposter syndrome was still there, like you know on the outside I probably look like I was, you know, a tough guy quote unquote to the point where even in my late teens some of the friends and ex boyfriend one of the girls I was dating that used to give me shit all the time,

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and I stopped because I was in the paper and won this tournament and I'm like I'm the same pussy than I was the day before, you know, but even now at 50 almost 50 doing Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu and we'll get into, you know, the commonalities there but I still feel like that.

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I still feel like basically everyone in the world can kick my ass so it's, it's funny how that kind of, you know that that sense of meekness when you're, when you're little carries over I just made a comment rolling with something I'm like yeah you know,

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I'm a small guys and he was like small and I realized I'm six foot and 175 that's not small but in my mind I'm still that little meek tiny kid, and you just, you know, you don't grow out of it, you know you try and project out of it and you try and build and crew up now be strong.

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I think I think I think to get you when you can go full circle when you can get back to it because I've been I've been spent the net you know spent the last 10 years trying to get back to that kid.

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Because you got too far away from it for all the wrong reasons.

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And, and, you know, that's something that I really enjoy actually is, you know, because now I can say, you know, that's not for me or, you know, I don't really enjoy being around a lot of people and, you know, and it's okay.

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You don't have to, but, but, but trying to get. I do actually feel like a like a little kid again which is kind of good I think.

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Yeah, no, I actually can relate to that because I'm becoming more playful again when you're a first responder for years and years and years seeing all the horrible stuff.

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You lose that childishness now that we can be absolute child you know children in the firehouse sometimes with the pranks and stuff, but that ability just to find joy and find joy and all the little things.

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It kind of gets stunted a little bit you know we have compassion, fatigue and just burn out and all these things that really, you know, destroy you as an adult but that that kind of innocence and wonder and playfulness that we have as children, I can absolutely relate

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because five years out of this profession. I'm finding myself starting to touch base with that again.

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Good.

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That's cool.

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So we're talking to sports when you were school age before we get to your, your acting journey what were you playing back then rugby loved it.

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Because it's a chance to be violent.

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I wasn't really like, oh I've got it in my head that I want to be violent, but I really enjoyed contact sports, and I was, you know, I wasn't a star player.

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But I was on the B team.

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And then the fullback got injured. And I got a shot in the on the first team and and secure the place because I had a good game.

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But I just loved the content, I loved.

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You know, I was good in contact I was good tackler. And I was, I was, you know, I just I just love that game. And I loved the, the organization, I love the discipline of it, you know, and if you want to get a group of kids to work together you know, put them in a rugby team

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and teaching rugby. It's unbelievable.

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You know, and I absolutely loved it so I played that from, you know, I left school at 16 to be honest with you so but every year I was there I was playing rugby. That was my, that was my jam.

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They didn't make much so my school was was a state grammar. Oh my god cat attack.

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My school was a state grammar. So we still had the 11 plus in kicks and I think they still do which is where you like you know you take like some basic IQ test when you're 11 years old, and then they split all the kids up based on that.

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Not a great system, because a lot of 11 year olds aren't developed. It's just a weird age to do that to people. But anyway, got lucky.

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And, but then you send you to this school which is based on the public school system.

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British public school, American private words are switched.

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But it's free.

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So, so they kind of, so they didn't play the long winded way they didn't play football soccer they played rugby, because they were trying to be posh so we would all the teams so we had this school, the mix of all these kids where some of them are from wealthy backgrounds

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and some of them are penniless, and we're all in together and there's, it's boys only, and no, no girls, absolute nightmare. You know what I mean like just vibe wise horrible, because just this just too much tension.

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So it was really soft Kenzie and in that respect the school, but they had you know good sports programs. There were some great teachers there.

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I was, I was terrible cricket, which is the summer sport but but yeah rugby was my thing, we played a lot.

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Cricket used to bore the hell out of me I gotta be honest, I'd always end up because I had a decent throw when I was younger and so they put me, you know outfield and I'd just be there like oh for God's sake it was like lifeguarding in a public pool just waiting for some of the drowns

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so you can do something.

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And you know, you can't grab ahold of anyone and not seven bells out. No exactly.

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That's a drawback, as far as I was concerned.

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I had a player on my, in my year, Robert Henderson, and he went on to play for Ireland, and the British and Irish Alliance. Oh wow.

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Yeah, he was a center played inside center I think. Yeah. Beautiful. Well I heard you on the smoke, they smoke like 20, 20 base.

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20, 20 Benson's a day or whatever at that time like he was a freak athlete he helped the head the school 800 meter record or something like that and he was like 10 Benson's.

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I wonder what he's doing now I'm assuming he gave up to play that level so.

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Yeah, no yeah played it went to that level paid for monster I think as well for for for a while and big big club in Ireland.

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So yeah, good old Rob Hendo.

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So I heard you on the distraction pieces podcast which is we were discussing before we hit records I think was the only one that you did and that was six years ago.

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So, again, honored that you, you came on here so thank you.

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But I heard you talking, you know, the kind of the on ramp to your acting so to preface it.

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I did a school musical when I was 10 I think it was, and it was funny I had a kind of very posh junior school and then, you know, real kind of spit and saw the senior school so I got, you know, two sides of the coin it was really is excellent but.

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So we're in the school plan it was trial by jury by Gilbert and Sullivan, who's like an opera supposed to be, and I forgot the lines and cried and on in front of the whole school on stage on my so I am not confident and even years later and I am the worst actor I

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know I got good at stunts so it, it led me into a different profession in the performing world that I was good at but when it came to acting terrible terrible so you have an interesting on ramp as far as not going to drama school.

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So walk me through how you actually found yourself on stage and then how that ramped up to professional acting.

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So, you rewind from from secondary school to, I was when I was like seven or eight.

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My mom heard about there was this woman, a few streets away who had a child agency, right, and I was because I was doing like these little bits of acting at school and being performative and blah blah blah blah little show off, and, and she heard about this agent so we went to

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meet her and she took me on and sent me on a bunch of auditions, and I got.

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I got a couple of jobs when I was like eight years old.

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So I was like, you know, speaking as well like I was in a couple of, you know, dramas, temps television and and and was amazing like you go with your mom you get these rehearsal rooms and it's professional and do a few lines here and there and it was, it was brilliant.

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But I got my equity card that way.

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I was like 80, I had an equity card at like eight years old. So, I was kind of I kind of felt like, but then after doing like two or three jobs, we went I wasn't interested in going to drama school my parents went into the drama school, you have to do real school

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and so that kind of that went away and we stopped doing that.

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But we had this card for like later in life you know which was amazing.

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And then in secondary school with this amazing drama teacher called Frank Wailey.

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And I didn't study drama school and do drama so he wasn't my drama teacher but he would do the school plays with us so that's how I knew it.

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And we would do, we did a play one year in conjunction with this theater company called the National Youth Music Theater, a great organization.

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And so we put on this school play and it was, it was really amazing. And that it was it was developed, like we workshopped it was about.

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It was about the beginning of ragged schools in 19th century London when Lord Shaftesbury like started getting these kids together and give them jobs as boot blacks shining shoes and trying to give poor children an education.

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And we put this play on and workshopped it and developed it so it was a very organic sort of thing. And then that theater company, then cast a wider network of additions and we took that play on to other other places around Southern England and then to the

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Edinburgh Festival.

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And that's how I joined that theater company. And so it was an amateur theater company.

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We would tour, we would go to places only during school holidays like you know, spring break and summer holidays, and you'd meet kids from all over the UK come together and rehearse and then take the play to we went to, you know, Exeter Festival the

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Edinburgh Festival we went to Norway to a to Bergen theater festival. We went to Greece.

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And I did that for like next four years.

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It was an amazing education, because, you know, you're 12 1314 years old, and you're performing to paying audiences around Europe, it was unbelievable to a fairly high standard.

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It was a music theater but it was kind of, it was kind of theater with music so it wasn't like we were doing straight musicals usually all that and then singing is not my thing I'm not I'm not a singer.

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And so the kids coming out of that have gone on to really good things and I mean there's some actors like I mean Jude Law, I met, I met him there, and we became, you know, very close friends and have been ever since.

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You know Sally Hawkins who's been you know nominated for an Oscar and people like that Matt Lucas was in that company I think Eddie Redmayne as well as one and Oscar, or you know so it has good, good pedigree coming out that Jamie Bell I think as well.

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So that was a really good so having done that I was kind of decided that I didn't really need a for him. I'm like why am I going to then I hated school, hated it, because I had this amazing life in the summer I was doing, doing actual stuff.

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You know what I mean. And so, as soon as I could, I left school, and, you know, got a regular job.

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You know moving deliveries around and could go to auditions because I had this card from when I was eight years old, the Secretary card. So I was like why am I going to go to another institution where I'll just stare out the window all the time.

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And I've got this card why don't I get I've got I've got a bunch of experience in the theater. Why don't I go and try and get a head start on all my peers, you know, and that's what I did.

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It took me a couple of years of doing different jobs for money like, you know, tearing to being an usher at a theater or being the storeman at the Hard Rock Cafe.

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And then a couple of years time I managed to start getting enough work where I didn't have to do those jobs anymore I could just do acting and make a living on it.

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So did you have an agent, because when I came out of drama school no equity card and for people listening that's the version of sag back in the UK.

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I was stuck in this this vicious circle I did this monologue from a play called Welcome Home by Tony Marchant and it was the this Falklands veteran who was.

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Oh, Tony. Oh, yeah. Amazing. Amazing. I love that well I'm actually it's funny I'm writing a second book and I'm, there's an element of that in this one kind of era that I'm touching on, and it's going to be a Falklands era.

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But I resonated, you know, even, even today, but it was this, this character basically has PTSD and he's recalling what happened on Bocca Hill.

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And so I did this monologue and I was very different than my other drama school friends because I was a, you know, an athlete and everything and they were a little bit more thespian esque and I mean that with the kindest term so I was just different so

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there's a couple of agents that were like oh actually we like you. One was William Morris, and I'm like oh wow this is going well.

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And I was told, but I don't, the person was watching wouldn't have been the department that I would have been the right fit for he said I'll tell him my colleagues so let me know when you get some work.

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And I was all excited and I got back to London started looking for work and was oh, you can't get work without an agent and you can't get agent without work so this was around 99 things when I graduated so and bearing in mind I'm also not a good actor

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mechanic so I'll take fact of those in as well but so I ended up in this vicious circle and never got anywhere so ironically I even put my name in for Band of Brothers and I'll talk about that in a little bit but I ended up working with Dale Dye but for a completely

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different reason.

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But back to the question sorry I just went off on a monologue. So, what about you with the agent side.

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This, this kid agency that I've been the lady.

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It changed hands. There's one called Jean Darnell.

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And she, she, she kept me on through all those years I wasn't doing any work I was still on the books from, you know, from, I was just doing the amateur theater from 12 to like 18.

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She kept me on the books and.

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She was a lead to show she didn't usually take people over the age of 18. But I've been there so long and she decided to, she said she, she'd represent me for a while.

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When you know I was 1819. And then, so she represented me for a while and I got into like, I got a job of doing it, I was in a play at the Bush theater.

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And another agent came to see that. So I always had representation, which is, you know, the luck of the gods man, you know I just, yeah, it was just that I guess it was that move when I was like 18, when I was like eight years old like go and see somebody

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and then I got put in the door at this agency. And they agreed to, to represent me as a young adult until it was time for me to get an adult agent.

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And I got and I got lucky because I did a play called beautiful thing at the Bush theater.

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I think it's just just had a revival actually amazing play, and, and another agent came to see that and was like yeah Pippa Markham she came and she said, I'll represent you.

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So I just, you know, fell into that.

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Now, when I think of you know when I first came across you, it's got to be trained spot and I remember seeing hackers later but train spot and was the first one. I don't want to make the assumption though that was the big break so kind of walk me through, you know,

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after a couple years of doing regular jobs, you're able to be full time to when you got the, the audition for train spying and or hackers.

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Yeah, so you're okay so it's like, I mean God, honestly I bought myself.

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So again, very mighty haven't you.

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This is the second.

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Yeah, killing me.

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Yeah, so like you know you when you're a young actor in the in Britain like you do all the all the standard things like you're doing casual an episode of casualty you know you're, I was like you know one of the nasty kids that gets somebody injured that then ends up in the casualty store.

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And then you had to wait the bill you remember the bill. So it was like a cop show shows are still really good London's growing the bill casualty I would say we need more shows like that less Hollywood more realism.

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So I was in the bill twice as two different people.

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So you had to wait different miscreants. You had to wait you had to wait the rule was you had to wait 18 months if you were in the bill, like you know as a snot nosed kid making trouble then you and then you had to wait 18 months before you could be in it again as another snot nosed kid

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making.

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So that how dumb we British people are that after a year and a half we forget everything.

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But that that speccy kid from Kingston.

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You can do it again you weren't that memorable will give you can do 12 months.

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So you do like a bunch of jobs like that and then I did actually did a, I did a drop a couple of really interesting dramas that they had these the BBC used to be so good to have these programs and they had a man they're called Michael wearing who my mom ended up working for

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BBC one and BBC two and he ran the drama there and they were they were very edgy and they had the screen one and screen two series like BBC one BBC two, and they would make these these standalone movies and three part dramas that were of such great quality

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and it's weird people like Tony March and so I did this three part drama called goodbye cool world that Tony had written about about a woman who gets motor neurone syndrome, and gradually loses all her faculties and the ability to move and speak and it's a bad it was

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it was about her family dealing with that and her husband dealing with it, and trying to what the challenges of fundraising and and being too distracted by fundraising and not caring enough about her and, and you know all those interesting questions.

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And I was their their their son so anyway, but sorry tangent.

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So I did a ton of jobs like that and then actually the first big movie was was hackers that came along and it was like the first time some that you know I went for an audition and then they like flew me to New York to like read with with actors, you know, for the

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film and it was extraordinary experience. And I guess I was living, I was living in a flat in Kentish town with Jude.

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And, you know, this, this dingy little flat above a Chinese takeaway on the on the fortress road in Kentish town.

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And I was like, I'm off to America.

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And that so that was the kind of the first sort of the biggest, biggest job I'd ever got. And even though it came out after transporting we made it first, and then.

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So, when you when you start getting jobs it's like you get.

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You get known throughout those casting circles I guess, even if the public doesn't know who you are the sort of the industry starts to, you know.

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So when I made that and then, you know, it was pretty I think it was pretty soon after that I was, I was, I was, I had fallen in love with with Angelina right.

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And I was chasing around the globe.

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And I don't know what money I had I spent it I went to visit she was making a film after we off we'd shot hackers she was making a film in in Portland, Oregon. So I flew over there to bug her.

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And, and, you know, be that kind of, you know, you know,

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she doesn't know any better. Yeah, what about me. And I'd flow over there and I was visiting with her and and you and I was friends with with you and McGregor a little bit socially, he had he had bumped into Jude, a, an audition.

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I don't think it ever came to fruition but it was they were both auditioning to be in this like this movie about a rock band or something, and the director told giving them 20 quid and told them to go to the pub and get drunk.

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You didn't want to do those two at that time.

315
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But they, they pulled up their socks and they went to the pub and and got drunk, and, and then became very good friends.

316
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:02,360
So I knew you and a bit socially.

317
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:13,360
And he recommended me I think to to Gail I think it was casting train spotting and Danny Boyle, you and I've done a movie with Danny before shallow grave. Right.

318
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:26,360
So my name got thrown in the pot for whatever reason. Thank you, you and, and I was on, I was just about to get on a plane back from Portland.

319
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:41,360
And, you know, I've been misbehaving all weekend over there, and then flew back, went to a phone box to get the address of, we'll find out what was going on with this train spotting audition.

320
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:53,360
And I think I went from the airport hung around lunch so her bit and then went straight to the audition. So I didn't even go home and change. I mean back in those I mean, when you're younger you can do things like that.

321
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:59,360
You know, well for that role it probably didn't matter if you weren't suited and booted anyway.

322
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:11,360
No, but, you know, we like to think about like preparation now and nailing the audition and all that but I must have been just so arrogant.

323
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:19,360
You know, or, or I don't know like I can't even I can't even imagine what I was thinking or not thinking, you know,

324
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:35,360
but I really liked you know I really thought the material was great and I managed to throw in a half decent Sean Connery impersonation in that in that audition and, and I guess that job like, it was just another job like it no one knew it was going to be like a big success,

325
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:53,360
it was just another job but it was super interesting and like you know once you meet Danny he's like one of the nicest people. Danny Boyle like one of the nicest men out there, and just a really just not condescending, he hasn't got a condescending bone in his body

326
00:47:53,360 --> 00:48:13,360
he's just a, he just knows how to work with people I had to get the best out of them and he, he's just all about the truth of the subject right and it was just such an incredible experience of, you know, the right way to rehearse the right way to prepare the right way to research

327
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:29,360
and meeting people all left right and center to do with this that you know, former drug addicts, you know guys in rehab, watching movies to do with little bits and all getting together and rehearsing and it was just that kind of experience now.

328
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:47,360
The book had been quite successful so we knew there was going to be a bit of a tension around it but you know, when you're making, when you're making like a TV show or a movie or whatever, you do get a vibe if it's going well like you know, well this feels good

329
00:48:47,360 --> 00:49:13,360
because these guys are all really good and that set looks really cool and this, this director of photography he seems to like really know what he's doing, and the design is incredible. So you kind of think well, yes, this is might not suck, you know, but then you know it went to like it was like the number one movie in the UK and we were like wow.

330
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:27,360
And then all these doors open for you. And if you're anything like me, you ignore them all and run away to America, and, and misbehave. So,

331
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:45,360
we're going to get to that portion but before we do, when I think back, it's been a while since I watched Trainspotting but I absolutely went and saw it in the film and it's going to be in the cinema and thinking about it now and how I remember how it made me feel reminds me of a

332
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:58,360
conversation I just had with Suzanne Stein who's a street photographer. And there's a kind of spectrum of street photography from beautiful and kind of cinematic all the way through to very raw and she's on the raw side.

333
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:11,360
And she made a comment that a lot of her work and sadly a lot of people that she's taking pictures of at the moment they're on Trank, which is the latest drug that everyone's battling with you've got the Fentanyl but you've also got this Trank and the Trank wounds literally start

334
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:37,360
to come off. So these people seem like zombies not only from their mental state but their flesh is literally coming off them. Is that like tranquilizers? Yeah, it's literally a horse tranquilizer. I forget the name of the tranquilizer but yeah they're combining it which I think is A, supposed to prolong the high from the Fentanyl and then B, you know, as a paramedic like if we come and give Narcan, it's not going to affect the Trank. So it's very dangerous as well.

335
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:57,360
But she made the comment that a lot of the media won't take her work, but they will show these graphic images from Ukraine and Gaza. And when I think of train spying, it's that same discomfort. We're not showing, you know, Compton in the 80s with the crack epidemic or New York, we're showing

336
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:14,360
Glasgow here in the UK. So it's one of those films I almost feel that we need again, we need to revisit it because this is what's happening on our, you know, on our soil in America and Australia and England, excuse me, in the UK.

337
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:30,360
And yet, even with the human trafficking conversation there was that film that came out not too long ago and it was all heroic but it was all overseas, whereas actually most of the trafficking is happening domestically, and our children are being groomed through social media and all these kind of things.

338
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:39,360
So, what I loved about train spying is it held that right in front of your face and said this is happening here, whether you like it or not, you're going to have to watch this.

339
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:53,360
Yeah, and also you know that's why it resonates with people so much because, you know, it's, you can make stories about stuff more authentically about things that are closer to you and closer to home.

340
00:51:53,360 --> 00:52:08,360
And you have a group of people doing that we tell our sort of tell local story if you like I'm talking nationally but local. That's kind of, you know, and I think that's why it

341
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:17,360
is so important that people can identify with pretty much everything in that film even though it's kind of a heightened level of reality.

342
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:25,360
And it got some criticism for, you know, glamorizing or being, but but I don't I don't necessarily agree with that.

343
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:43,360
It's not necessarily confrontational like that. And it's trying to give you the perspective of those guys, and in their eyes, they're, you know, I mean, Danny had always said if he was making a completely realistic version of that world, it would, you know,

344
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,360
be unwatchable.

345
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:55,360
And I think someone asked him once what do you think the average junkie is think thinks about this.

346
00:52:55,360 --> 00:53:05,360
And he said, the average junkie is thinking where the fuck am I going to get my next hit from, you know, they don't give a fucking shit about some stupid movie.

347
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,360
So, you know,

348
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:28,360
it was an interesting. But I agree with you that you know like I'm all about those finding a new way to speak to whatever generation is and that's always the magic in the bottle that everyone's looking for is how to identify how to connect with an audience

349
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:39,360
because if you if you make it I've always believed that if you make a good product in that, as I say the word product but essentially that's what it is right, like if you make something good.

350
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:54,360
If you build it, they will come. I honestly believe that and if you know it might not happen immediately it might not happen because because of all the different platforms there are now the different ways people can access different content it might not get to its audience

351
00:53:54,360 --> 00:54:02,360
as quickly. But a good films hang around and good stories hang around, I think.

352
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:18,360
Absolutely. Well, when I think of a comparable film, and now I've got a 16 year old son. Another one that really grabbed me by the throat was kids, and it made you think about, you know, kids drugs alcohol, you know, sex all these things and as a parent it really was you know,

353
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:34,360
it was it was horrifying as a person who was a little bit older than the kids in the movie but then now as a parent of a 16 and 22 year old, you know, it makes you think again not only the vulnerability of your son but also to make sure that your son doesn't become, you know, a nuisance a pest a predator or whatever it is.

354
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:35,360
Yeah.

355
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:50,360
You made this very raw powerful film. Were there any stories that came out of it as far as increasing the awareness of the addiction crisis in the UK at that time or even people that were steered away addiction because of the film.

356
00:54:50,360 --> 00:55:00,360
Not that I know. And at the time I wasn't I wouldn't have been responsive to those kind of discussions and you know you couldn't really have them I mean there wasn't really an internet.

357
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:05,360
So you weren't getting feedback like that.

358
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:20,360
I mean, you know, and I, I might my head was up my ass anyway to be honest with you and I you know as a young guy that that wasn't really that was trying probably trying to avoid those conversations.

359
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:22,360
You know,

360
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:38,360
we tell you talked about kind of, you know, this next chapter. So you are, you know, pursuing the art of acting up to this point, and acting and celebrity are two different things you know I think that's why I've got so much admiration for Gary Oldman for example,

361
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:43,360
such an incredible actor you never see him on any, you know tabloid or anything at all.

362
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:57,360
You're a young man you get thrust into the limelight now. You talked about some of the challenges earlier in their life. So what did that kind of pendulum swing look like for you.

363
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:13,360
I mean, the big, the big thing is like, it wasn't like, you're like a huge you're not you're not like Tom Cruise overnight you know I mean like and if you if you're like mid level, like, like that, like it kind of made us lower to mid levels.

364
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:24,360
You have. Everyone's like okay go. Okay, you. I went to LA to to live with Angie, right, and then we ended up getting married.

365
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:36,360
And while I was there it was like, I got hooked up with an American agent and then you're like you know going to all those auditions and I was just messing up auditions or in LA that's what I was doing.

366
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:41,360
And, you know, I ended up working a bit over there.

367
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:46,360
Couple of times like my memory is a bit, a bit hazy.

368
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:58,360
But really that's sort of I started using drugs a lot you know and and I was avoiding I didn't I didn't go to like the Cannes Film Festival where Trainspotting had its big premiere I mean I didn't go.

369
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:03,360
I was too busy, you know, doing nothing.

370
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:18,360
So you can avoid that pendulum swing if you're if you want to. It's a it's a it's a big misnomer I think that I think it's my experience as well even, you know,

371
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:33,360
even even big stars to a certain degree, you can avoid it if you want to. You can blend into the crowd it's how you carry yourself and how down to earth you are really and you can also on the other hand play up to it and become quite you know,

372
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:48,360
you can behave like royalty or isolate yourself or get isolated because you because of the fear of being you know recognized or whatever but if you if you're just like whatever man they kind of there are ways to avoid it, I think.

373
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:58,360
I mean I don't speak from experience of being super famous because I never have been and I'm not and it's not something I would wish for ever.

374
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:15,360
But yeah, I just ignored it. I kind of I squandered a lot of opportunities and I don't have any regrets about anything to be honest with you because I wouldn't be sitting here and I wouldn't have this you know great kid.

375
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:19,360
You know, I wouldn't you know just nothing needs to change you know what I mean.

376
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:27,360
But at that time I was just I got preoccupied, you know with myself.

377
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:36,360
How old is your son now 15 just turned 15 might be going from school in a minute, but I told him to be quiet when he comes in.

378
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:38,360
And that was with Angelina Jolie.

379
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:58,360
No, no, no, we were married for a couple of years, and we separated in 97. No, Buster's mom is a lady called Michelle and I met her.

380
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:15,360
I'm going to get off then. I just want to make sure. So two things with that. Firstly, like you said you're you're now, you know, enjoying your time in LA and I and by the way, chasing her, I went to drama school because I chased a girl she was in costume and design in

381
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:21,360
Welsh College of Music and Drama and I just got myself in because I want to be by her. That's why I was such a bad actor.

382
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:39,360
I've done it. Yeah. And then I moved to America after marrying an American girl, and, you know, we'll get into that in a second but you yourself train spot and gets to a certain point but Angelina obviously had a pretty significant level of celebrity.

383
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:51,360
You know, you're the dark side of the paparazzi you know, sticking their noses in from I mean the worst case to me is you know when they're hounding people's children. Did you experience the dark side of that when you were in that marriage?

384
00:59:51,360 --> 01:00:09,360
No, no, because she was just starting out. She was 1920, and she'd be done hackers and then that was you know that was it and it wasn't a successful film at that time, it did alright but it wasn't, you know, later years it sort of got sort of culty status

385
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,360
because of its sort of ridiculousness.

386
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:16,360
But at the time it wasn't a big deal.

387
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:31,360
But she was like on this starting out kind of journey and I think it was became quite apparent like I kind of knew she was going to be big, you know, because she was very very good at her job, and really beautiful.

388
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,360
So, that's good.

389
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:41,360
Got some things going for you though she's really really good actor like and people tend to forget that.

390
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:53,360
So, so yeah I was just like, there was none of that going on and now, and, you know, I spent a lot of time like, you know, locked in a room anyway.

391
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:56,360
Did she shoot Gia when you were together then? Have we got that?

392
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

393
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:08,360
That was a brilliant film. Yeah, and then she started winning like she won like three Golden Globes or whatever on the bounce or something and it was, you know, you were like, she was off to the races man.

394
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:22,360
So I was married, you know ended up discovering that when I was at the fire station someone else was in my house with her. So that marriage ended. But what was really jarring and I did have a little boy at the time.

395
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:32,360
So, he was only, it's a good thing because I can storytell now and hopefully people can relate to it but he was three when, you know, it fell apart.

396
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:38,360
But what was jarring as I realized, because I've moved to the US from the UK.

397
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:45,360
I didn't really have anyone around me I didn't have family a lot of my friends were in California ironically when I worked prior to moving back to the East Coast.

398
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:57,360
So when you went through that when that first marriage ended did you find yourself in any kind of isolation when you're knowing that you'd left a lot of people back on the other side of the Atlantic.

399
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:06,360
Yeah, but I got on a plane and went home, and I went back to the UK, and I lived in the UK for the next seven or eight years.

400
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,360
I went I went back.

401
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:23,360
Because I was like, this is not, there's nothing going on here and I, and I, and I got into some bad habits and I don't know like lots of stories crisscross here.

402
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:36,360
But I went back with, you know, my tail between my legs. And then and you know it was one of those things where you know she's a really cool lady, and, and, and we're really good friends now.

403
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:52,360
And so it wasn't. It was a sort of, it was the light, it was as an amicable split and there was no responsibilities with there was no kid, there was no, you know, and everything was, it was cool.

404
01:02:52,360 --> 01:03:01,360
But yeah, I do identify with what you're saying a lot because later because when me and Michelle,

405
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:03,360
who was my second wife.

406
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:15,360
We met in LA, I went back to LA access, I could stomach it I stomach England for about another seven years and then I was like, I wasn't going the way I wanted it to wasn't getting the jobs I wanted.

407
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:30,360
I blamed it all on, you know, the business over there. It wasn't, it wasn't to do with me right. And then I went to LA and started looking for work again, and immediately found work, and I was like Americans are awesome.

408
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:49,360
And then I met Michelle, and two years later we have, you know, we have a kid. But she's from New Jersey, and so with that we're in LA and she's from New Jersey and she has a, she had a challenging upbringing, and her siblings are.

409
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:56,360
She had no dad in the picture, and her siblings are both developmentally disabled.

410
01:03:56,360 --> 01:04:15,360
And her mom is kind of overloaded. And so neither of us had anybody, any, any relatives to ever like, watch the kids every time you want to do stuff like go out or have a date night those kind of things tend to take a backseat because you've got to find a babysitter

411
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:33,360
because there's always there's never family to take the cushion. And I think that's a real challenge for people. When you both sort of come from a long way away and you're both transplants and, and, and, and you're dealing with, with raising a little one that there.

412
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:37,360
That's a major challenge.

413
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:54,360
And that's even we came back to New York, even being close to time it was still still the case here for us we're not together anymore but it was a challenge and a challenge when we separated as well a huge challenge, because it's just you man.

414
01:04:54,360 --> 01:05:08,360
It is indeed this funny my, my little boy had a babysitter as a neighbor's daughter from across the street and she, she's amazing young girl she was, I mean just crushing it in high school and then ended up entering the military I think she went into the anesthesia program

415
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:13,360
or something but she would, you know, study while she watched my son if I went out.

416
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:29,360
I was dating because I was trying to trying to F my life after the divorce. But her name is my Asia, and I remember this little, you know, three four year old kid saying all right, we're going to have my age is going to come, he'd go, it's not my, it's not your Asia it's my Asia.

417
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:35,360
So I always remember that this is sweet young girl that would babysit.

418
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:53,360
When you, as you said you came out of that first relationship if my timelines right in my head. That's around the time that band of brothers was casting like I said I threw my name in the hat and ironically years later, they'll die ran a boot camp for a stunt show that I

419
01:05:53,360 --> 01:06:01,360
was in in Japan, and he's actually, he's been on the show he's come on again to talk about the masters of air in a few weeks which is just about to come in on Apple.

420
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:10,360
But that was a big big production in in British, you know drama around 99 ish so were you offered any of the roles in that production.

421
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:13,360
No.

422
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:21,360
By, I love band brothers, and I've seen the whole thing through about three or four times.

423
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:25,360
Absolutely love that show, and

424
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:27,360
everything about it.

425
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:47,360
Just everything music production, acting, just just those absolutely great piece of work. But no, I don't, I don't think so. It's like I say it's like, you know, it's very hard for me to remember all those things and all the things that I dismissed as kind of not.

426
01:06:47,360 --> 01:07:03,360
Not right for me I don't want to do that, not you know like thinking of yourself, you try all the time you want to be Gary oldman all the time you want to be Al Pacino Robert De Niro you know what I mean and so you're, you're, you're saying no to a lot of stuff.

427
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:08,360
But I don't remember being offered band of brothers now.

428
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:17,360
So you talked about, you know, dabbling in drugs, you know around the earlier time you have a divorce you go home for seven years you come back to LA.

429
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:31,360
Walk me through like where was the lowest place that you found yourself because you talked about your life kind of mirroring Bobby's and Bobby has a very powerful kind of addiction slash recovery story so what was your low and then what was it that you were able to kind of find to

430
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:33,360
claw your way out of that.

431
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:38,360
Gosh, I mean, I had an I had a number of lows.

432
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:41,360
And that was kind of.

433
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:48,360
I kept getting away with it or being okay enough.

434
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:53,360
And to think I was okay, you know what I mean.

435
01:07:53,360 --> 01:08:06,360
I was, you know, taking very hard drugs, I was addicted to heroin for a couple of years. And when I, when I moved back to, to the UK.

436
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:22,360
I just dropped it associated it with somewhere else and I was able to just drop it. Now I substituted it with a, you know, whole host of other things but, but I, but what it did was.

437
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:35,360
It convinced me or foolishly convinced me that I didn't have a substance abuse problem because I was able to do that who can do that and if you have a, you know, if you're able to conquer that beast then you know you're good.

438
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:39,360
So,

439
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:46,360
I got very low, I think in like 99 2000.

440
01:08:46,360 --> 01:09:03,360
Just drinking and drinking and and cocaine. And I was, I was balancing act I was I was training for like the London marathon and I was burning the candle both ends you know, and a little bit in the middle.

441
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:20,360
Because I on the one hand I was super fit dude you know that could run like you know, a 308 marathon, and then, you know, I would hammer it afterwards because I learned it and all that kind of stuff was going on but but I was miserable ish and it sort of

442
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:36,360
came to a point I went to I went to a meeting with them into an NA meeting with with a friend and like broke down. And I spent a year, clean and sober and felt great.

443
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:50,360
And then I decided to sort of go to India and travel around India for three months, and I did that and I started drinking again there because I felt better I was better, and I started drinking again, got myself into like trouble in India.

444
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:53,360
I mean, I got lost.

445
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:56,360
Don't recommend that.

446
01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:59,360
Waking up not knowing where you are.

447
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:02,360
Other than the fact that you're in India.

448
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:06,360
I mean, it was like inception.

449
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:20,360
So, but then you know came back from India and that was such an amazing experience as a human. It was incredible that I had this new outlook on life so I felt better, and I felt like I was okay.

450
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:23,360
And I felt like I well I just needed to sort of grow up a bit.

451
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:36,360
And so, that was like 2001, and then I spend the next 10 years thinking I'm okay, and then things gradually.

452
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:40,360
I gradually lose control over those 10 years.

453
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:59,360
You know, you know, at one point in my life, I think, I think before this would be, you know, at some point in the early 2000s or late 90s, you know I was smoking weed, all the time you know, and thinking, it's just that, but you know when you're doing it and morning and night

454
01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:14,360
I mean that's a problem dude, and you're not developing and this is what I've mentioned before about being emotionally stunted and emotionally retarded.

455
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:23,360
It's because you're not really developing those those skills those life skills at all, and you're not dealing with people properly.

456
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:34,360
So anyway, the lowest point is like you know I get, I, you know, I meet, I meet this wonderful lady and we get, we get married.

457
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:37,360
No.

458
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:39,360
Yeah, we get married.

459
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:53,360
We have a kid, and he's when he's like two years old is when an incident happens, you know, and I just I I started blacking out a lot, like three times a week, you know I'm blacking out.

460
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:58,360
And, you know, I did some really like embarrassing stuff.

461
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:06,360
And that was when I was like okay I'm going to lose my family, so.

462
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:10,360
And then finally, I knew what to do, because I'd done it before.

463
01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:16,360
And I rang someone up and asked them to take me ask them for help and I take you to a meeting or whatever.

464
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:22,360
So, and then I just haven't looked back since.

465
01:12:22,360 --> 01:12:29,360
And things don't immediately like you know life doesn't immediately get better.

466
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:50,360
It gets worse, like my marriage didn't even didn't survive that, but dealt with everything since progressively head on stone cold sober, and you experienced life just so much more because you've got nowhere to hide you can't hide from anything.

467
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:53,360
So you have to deal with it.

468
01:12:53,360 --> 01:13:13,360
I've got to deal with both of my parents, within six months of each other, all that kind of stuff. And, and I wouldn't just I wouldn't change it for the world like, you know, to be completely present at like a parents funeral and not be getting, you know, everyone

469
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:30,360
because they're just wanted to celebrate somebody and, but you get to remember and really experience all the lovely things that people have to say about your mom. When they come up to you, you know you remember it, and you experience it and it really helps with like the healing process

470
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:47,360
and the grieving process because you know you're facing it like you're staring at everything like full on so so that that kind of sobriety then you know you realize all the problems that you got right in your head.

471
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:55,360
You've covered them up with with whatever substance for, you know, 20 years.

472
01:13:55,360 --> 01:14:05,360
Now, now you've got to deal with them because they're going to come to the surface you can't just wash them down so that then led me to, you know, I had a taste of therapy through like marriage counseling.

473
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:21,360
And then I finally was like, all right, I'll go to therapy because I was because it was I had the stigma about it I was like I don't need that I must I must a strong person that can deal with things you know I've trained for marathons I've done you know I know I know what it is

474
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:34,360
to know about thirsty and like you know and then my eyes were like opened to what therapy actually is and discovering,

475
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:45,360
you know, how to deal with trauma and what actually what what was going on back then, you know what we touched on earlier what what it was that was happening, and why I feel all these certain things.

476
01:14:45,360 --> 01:15:05,360
Now there's certain things that happen in recovery that are great like personal inventory and finding out what your part in all these grievances that you have with all these people and things that really come up a lot a lot a lot with people are fear and control.

477
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:14,360
And so you realize the amount of fear that you have about life and the amount of control that you're trying to exert over it.

478
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:19,360
And then, you know, I've been in therapy regularly since.

479
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:32,360
And I've done did some awesome stuff called like EMDR therapy, which I, which is mind blowing because I've talked to a mate.

480
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:45,360
I mean, I've talked to him recently after I started it.

481
01:15:45,360 --> 01:16:06,360
And I've heard that it's been used for veterans, but it makes an absolute difference. It was explained to me by my therapist like, okay, so just talking sometimes isn't enough.

482
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:21,360
You have to reprogram your amygdala. So you don't have these fight or flight responses which are in there and the only way to do that is to light it up and so you light it up with the, you know, pulses or the lights and going to this like trance thing.

483
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:35,360
I don't exactly exactly know how it works. It's kind of magic. But, but I found that hugely beneficial and could not recommend it enough to anyone who's listening.

484
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:49,360
So yeah, so learning about I don't know if I've gone way off track here but no no keep going from learning about who you are and being okay with it and that you can do stuff.

485
01:16:49,360 --> 01:17:06,360
And sticking with it. It's like my, one of the guys that helped me earlier on in my recovery was an old friend and we used to be drinking buddies in the UK a bit and knew him he was in the music business.

486
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:23,360
And, but we used to train in the same kickboxing gym.

487
01:17:23,360 --> 01:17:40,360
And I'll tell you what, most instructors are bad ass right if he tells you this is where you put your feet in this hay through a punch.

488
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:41,600
if things get better or not.

489
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:44,760
If they don't get better, come and complain to me,

490
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:47,640
come and yell at me or whatever, but invariably they do.

491
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:51,960
And it's just something I don't miss.

492
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:56,960
But learning about how kind of stunted I was emotionally

493
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:58,440
was kind of a revelation.

494
01:17:58,440 --> 01:18:02,360
And I've been working to sort of change that

495
01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:05,480
and become more,

496
01:18:06,980 --> 01:18:08,440
be able to interact with people better

497
01:18:08,440 --> 01:18:10,160
because I wasn't good at it.

498
01:18:12,120 --> 01:18:14,120
There's a few things I wanna pull from that.

499
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:17,560
First one, EMDR has come up a lot

500
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:19,440
and there's a lot of people who have success with it.

501
01:18:19,440 --> 01:18:21,620
Some people haven't, and it almost seems

502
01:18:21,620 --> 01:18:24,200
like the common denominator is,

503
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:27,280
it seems to work very well for acute trauma.

504
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:29,720
So there's a thing that bothers you over and over again,

505
01:18:29,720 --> 01:18:32,600
and you talk about that thing, but the cumulative one,

506
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:34,720
I've been a firefighter for 14 years,

507
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:36,240
I'm feeling this way.

508
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:37,360
Is there something that bothers you?

509
01:18:37,360 --> 01:18:40,000
No, those ones it doesn't seem to work as well for.

510
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:41,960
So was it an acute experience

511
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:43,880
that you were trying to work through with EMDR?

512
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:45,840
Yeah, yeah.

513
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:49,280
It's not something I can really go into

514
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:53,560
because it involves another person,

515
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:58,560
but there were reactions that I would have around

516
01:19:01,940 --> 01:19:04,040
stuff to do with looking after my kid

517
01:19:04,040 --> 01:19:06,920
and some things that had happened

518
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:10,320
and I would just be, when you get divorced,

519
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:12,400
when he's not here, I would just be worried,

520
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:15,560
senseless about him and there were certain things

521
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:18,160
that would happen and I would be like freaking out.

522
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:21,360
And it was, so I worked on that for it

523
01:19:21,360 --> 01:19:24,200
and it assuaged my anxiety about that.

524
01:19:24,200 --> 01:19:26,400
I do, that's why as well I discovered

525
01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:31,400
that I suffer from anxiety and depression most of my life.

526
01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:36,400
I went to see, eventually went to see a psychiatrist

527
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:40,880
and tell him your life story and he's like,

528
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:43,600
oh no, you've had this forever.

529
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:50,480
Which was great to discover, it's not,

530
01:19:50,480 --> 01:19:55,160
and it was never like, oh man, I got anxiety and depression.

531
01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:58,440
It was like, oh thank fuck, I thought it was crazy.

532
01:19:58,440 --> 01:20:03,440
It's like, yes, you know what it is, it's just a huge relief.

533
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:06,840
And I know it gets thrown around a lot

534
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:08,480
and people are skeptical about it,

535
01:20:08,480 --> 01:20:11,640
but it's fucking real, man, it is real.

536
01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:14,080
That black cloud is real and I don't care

537
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:16,120
what the reasons are for it or whether,

538
01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:21,120
it's not a competition, man, it's like, it is fucking real.

539
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:24,080
Because you can have everything right and everything great

540
01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:28,320
and a nice house and be in love with your kid

541
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:31,960
but you can't see the fucking future, man.

542
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:33,160
The future is gray.

543
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:37,800
So yeah, so dealt with that.

544
01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:45,040
But none of that stuff is available to you unless you,

545
01:20:45,320 --> 01:20:49,120
if you have like addiction going on, you know,

546
01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:51,320
none of it's available, you'll never get to it,

547
01:20:51,320 --> 01:20:53,760
but it doesn't matter what you try, you know,

548
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:56,200
you're not gonna get to it unless you really find out

549
01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:58,800
who you are and what the fuck is going on with you.

550
01:21:00,440 --> 01:21:03,520
So when you were talking about being addicted to heroin

551
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:06,120
and ironically, you know, a few short years prior

552
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:09,080
you were portraying heroin addicts in a film,

553
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:11,520
it kind of mirrors when you see doctors and nurses

554
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:13,080
outside the hospital having a cigarette

555
01:21:13,080 --> 01:21:16,200
or firefighters flying down the road without a seatbelt on,

556
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:19,040
you know, we know better, but we still do it anyway.

557
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:22,280
Did you catch yourself at any point kind of reflecting

558
01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:25,400
on the irony of knowing through portrayal

559
01:21:25,400 --> 01:21:28,080
what the addiction does and yet finding yourself

560
01:21:28,080 --> 01:21:29,480
in that very same addiction?

561
01:21:30,760 --> 01:21:35,000
Yeah, I don't think I was as reflectively clever as that,

562
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:37,400
you know, I don't think I was,

563
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:41,440
it was probably lost on me because I was more of like,

564
01:21:41,440 --> 01:21:43,840
I didn't give a shit, you know what I mean?

565
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:48,680
I had tried, I think I was the only guy

566
01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:51,320
who had actually, you know, tried that stuff

567
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:52,240
before we made it.

568
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:55,720
I wasn't like using it regularly, but I tried it.

569
01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:59,320
I never, I never, god, I'm really,

570
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:01,240
I'm really spilling the beans today,

571
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:06,920
but I never, I never injected anything.

572
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:09,720
That was a step too far for me.

573
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:14,360
But so I think maybe my, you know,

574
01:22:14,360 --> 01:22:17,040
my journey with it wasn't as rough as some people's,

575
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:18,520
but I mean, I'm lightweight.

576
01:22:19,480 --> 01:22:21,880
Well, I mean, it was born in an era now where, you know,

577
01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:23,680
it's prescribed left, right and center.

578
01:22:23,680 --> 01:22:25,760
I mean, you know, shortly,

579
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:27,960
should I think of my timeline now in my head?

580
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:30,080
Yeah, shortly after I was when in the US,

581
01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:31,720
we had the pill mills and, you know,

582
01:22:31,720 --> 01:22:33,480
opiate addiction blew up over here

583
01:22:33,480 --> 01:22:34,680
when everyone was on heroin.

584
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:36,160
It just was called a different name.

585
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:38,440
Yeah, unbelievable.

586
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:42,640
So you talked about Muay Thai as well.

587
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:44,960
I trained in a gym in London.

588
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:47,360
I think it was either Camden or Kentish town.

589
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:48,760
Where was your Muay Thai gym?

590
01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:52,000
And let's get on your kind of journey of martial arts

591
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:54,200
and how you found yourself in Jiu Jitsu.

592
01:22:54,200 --> 01:22:56,240
So it wasn't, it wasn't back then,

593
01:22:56,240 --> 01:22:58,040
it was kickboxing that I did,

594
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:00,280
American style freestyle kickboxing kind of.

595
01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:02,320
And it was a guy called Rafael Nieto.

596
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:03,960
And he has still, yeah,

597
01:23:03,960 --> 01:23:06,640
I think he has like two or three gyms in London now,

598
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:10,840
but he had been a student of Mugendo in King's Cross.

599
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:13,240
And when I joined, they were moving

600
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:14,840
and he was starting his own place.

601
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:18,400
And he called it, had a various couple of names.

602
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:19,960
He went through, I think you can call it Zendo now,

603
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:23,960
but it was like, it was like Taekwondo

604
01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:29,960
from the waist down, boxing from the waist up.

605
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:31,320
So it's very different to Muay Thai

606
01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:33,000
because we kick with a bent knee.

607
01:23:34,320 --> 01:23:35,800
Lead the knee and then flick it out.

608
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:37,680
It was more like that kind of,

609
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:39,480
and then the hands were a bit lower.

610
01:23:42,200 --> 01:23:45,520
But my martial arts journey is like,

611
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:48,160
I remember when I was like six trying karate

612
01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:49,880
because everyone wanted to do karate back then.

613
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:53,320
My mom would take me to karate a couple of times,

614
01:23:53,320 --> 01:23:54,600
but I didn't really like the vibe.

615
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:55,440
So I didn't want to go back.

616
01:23:55,440 --> 01:23:57,120
I didn't, I don't know, didn't like the vibe.

617
01:23:57,120 --> 01:23:58,480
It was Shochikan karate.

618
01:24:00,120 --> 01:24:01,760
I was too timid for it.

619
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:02,600
You know what I mean?

620
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:05,240
Like, I don't think I want to go there.

621
01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:12,200
When I was, I think, 19, 20,

622
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:15,960
I looked up a place in King's Cross.

623
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:20,800
I went to like a traditional Japanese jujitsu place

624
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:24,440
run by a veteran in the basement of some,

625
01:24:24,440 --> 01:24:28,280
like some shady spot in King's Cross.

626
01:24:28,280 --> 01:24:30,520
And that was all right.

627
01:24:30,520 --> 01:24:32,840
Kind of like that, did that for a while,

628
01:24:32,840 --> 01:24:33,920
but it didn't stick.

629
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:37,320
And actually the Mugendo place was upstairs.

630
01:24:38,480 --> 01:24:42,760
I tried Aikido for a bit while I was in the US.

631
01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:44,080
Felt like that was really good.

632
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:47,640
Did that for about a year, half a year or something.

633
01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:50,440
So I've flitted around all these things my whole life,

634
01:24:50,440 --> 01:24:51,760
but nothing had stuck.

635
01:24:53,240 --> 01:24:56,600
And then when I found the Mugendo place

636
01:24:56,600 --> 01:24:59,200
and started training with Rafael, which is in Camden,

637
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:06,240
I did that solidly like four times,

638
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:10,200
four or five times a week for three years.

639
01:25:10,200 --> 01:25:13,960
I was there like every day, loved it.

640
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:17,520
And then I moved to the States.

641
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:22,520
So when I moved to the States in end of 2005,

642
01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:26,240
that went away.

643
01:25:26,240 --> 01:25:29,080
And I was kind of, I loved that place.

644
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:30,480
So I trained really hard there

645
01:25:30,480 --> 01:25:32,120
and I'd gotten a bunch of belts

646
01:25:32,120 --> 01:25:34,120
and been through all these like,

647
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:36,080
really tough gradings and stuff.

648
01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:39,560
Never fought, never represented them,

649
01:25:39,560 --> 01:25:44,560
but I didn't really want to like getting together

650
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:49,040
with finding a new gym just seemed like a big hill

651
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:49,880
to climb again.

652
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:53,240
And I wasn't ready to like find another family like that.

653
01:25:53,240 --> 01:25:54,080
You know what I mean?

654
01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:55,880
And then life took over.

655
01:25:55,880 --> 01:26:00,880
And so for the next sort of 10 years, I didn't train.

656
01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:05,880
But I was running a lot and I got really back into my running.

657
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:08,680
I would run with weight a lot.

658
01:26:10,680 --> 01:26:12,960
When I lived in London, I'd like run all over

659
01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:14,400
Hampton Heath with a very heavy pack

660
01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:16,800
because I was obsessed with the SAS.

661
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:21,800
I used to lifeguard on the ponds in the Heath for years.

662
01:26:21,800 --> 01:26:23,240
You probably see me struggling past

663
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:25,240
with a backpack full of old scripts.

664
01:26:25,240 --> 01:26:28,040
Like I would run with about 40 pounds

665
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:33,040
and feel like Andy McNabb in all weather.

666
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:36,640
Anyway, got really into my running

667
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:38,880
and I've run like a bunch of marathons.

668
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:43,320
And so I didn't train.

669
01:26:43,320 --> 01:26:44,720
And then I got in a,

670
01:26:46,360 --> 01:26:48,080
and it wasn't when I came back into New York

671
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:51,360
and then I started doing outside ultra marathon running.

672
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:55,600
And my goal was to like run a few more times

673
01:26:55,600 --> 01:27:00,400
and my goal was to like run a few 50 milers.

674
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:02,480
And then I was like, oh my God, these are so hard.

675
01:27:02,480 --> 01:27:04,640
There's no way I'm gonna do a hundred miler.

676
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:07,840
And then I was like, well, a little bit late,

677
01:27:07,840 --> 01:27:10,560
you feel okay, end up running a hundred miler.

678
01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:14,360
And then when I got divorced again,

679
01:27:18,040 --> 01:27:21,320
I just got fed up with all that training on my own.

680
01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:23,040
And I was fed up with being on my own.

681
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:26,120
And even though I felt like I'd really pushed myself

682
01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:28,720
to do something that not a lot of people do,

683
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:31,920
around a hundred miles in a day, fucking did it.

684
01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:35,760
But like, I'm sick and tired of all this training on my own.

685
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:38,040
And I used to kick box man.

686
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:39,800
So that was fun.

687
01:27:39,800 --> 01:27:43,840
And I eventually, I walked into a Muay Thai gym here

688
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:46,760
called Evolution Muay Thai

689
01:27:46,760 --> 01:27:48,520
and really hit it off with the owner

690
01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:50,600
and head coach there, Brandon Levi.

691
01:27:50,600 --> 01:27:52,080
And then I was off to the races.

692
01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:55,160
That was like, that became home.

693
01:27:55,160 --> 01:28:00,160
And especially being sober, it's like going to the pub.

694
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:04,960
You're just surrounded by people that you like.

695
01:28:04,960 --> 01:28:08,560
You're telling jokes, having fun, but instead of drinking,

696
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:12,280
you're learning to knock seven bells out of each other

697
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:15,880
or whatever, or knock seven bells out of some pads.

698
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:18,600
So it was brilliant.

699
01:28:18,600 --> 01:28:21,480
It was a perfect thing for me.

700
01:28:21,480 --> 01:28:25,120
And that's where I discovered

701
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:28,760
what a team sport fighting is.

702
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:31,120
That it's, yes, it's an individual sport,

703
01:28:31,120 --> 01:28:33,680
but the people do not realize that don't do it.

704
01:28:33,680 --> 01:28:37,440
The team and the amount of bonding that goes on there.

705
01:28:37,440 --> 01:28:39,840
And Evolution was great, especially then,

706
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:42,720
they're in a different spot now,

707
01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:47,000
but they had a very big mat space.

708
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:49,360
And so they could divide it in half.

709
01:28:49,360 --> 01:28:52,080
So you'd have the 530 Muay Thai class here

710
01:28:52,080 --> 01:28:55,480
and the 530 Nogi Jiu Jitsu class going on over there.

711
01:28:55,480 --> 01:28:58,440
And then the 630 Muay Thai class

712
01:28:58,440 --> 01:29:00,880
and the 630 Gi class going on.

713
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:02,360
And then you could just hang around.

714
01:29:02,360 --> 01:29:04,800
So there's people hanging around like the whole time,

715
01:29:04,800 --> 01:29:08,360
all day, there's people, you could just go there and hang out.

716
01:29:08,360 --> 01:29:13,000
And I fell back in love with combat sports.

717
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:15,960
And then I was persuaded to try the Jiu Jitsu.

718
01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:19,040
And I, much to Brandon's chagrin,

719
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:21,880
I started being on the Jiu Jitsu side of the rope

720
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:24,280
more than the Muay Thai side of the rope.

721
01:29:26,280 --> 01:29:28,840
But I did go back and did train and have,

722
01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:31,960
do a smoker fight, an exhibition fight.

723
01:29:31,960 --> 01:29:35,640
And then I did, I managed to get on the card

724
01:29:35,640 --> 01:29:38,000
of Friday Night Fights and had a fight

725
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:40,640
representing Evolution here in New York,

726
01:29:40,640 --> 01:29:45,640
which is just like a fantasy. It's just like, you know,

727
01:29:45,640 --> 01:29:48,440
you can, you feel like you're a professional athlete.

728
01:29:48,440 --> 01:29:49,640
It's unbelievable.

729
01:29:51,640 --> 01:29:53,520
So what about the Jiu Jitsu side?

730
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:55,840
So you fight, you know, you do the smoker,

731
01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:57,480
you fight in the Muay Thai.

732
01:29:57,480 --> 01:30:01,280
What did you end up loving about the grappling side in the end?

733
01:30:03,280 --> 01:30:04,120
A couple of things.

734
01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:08,000
I mean, I'd been in denial about Jiu Jitsu for so many years.

735
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:09,440
Right? I'd been like, I was like,

736
01:30:09,440 --> 01:30:11,160
oh yeah, these guys think they're it.

737
01:30:11,160 --> 01:30:12,520
And I've heard this and blah, blah, blah.

738
01:30:12,520 --> 01:30:14,200
Jiu Jitsu, Jiu Jitsu, Jiu Jitsu.

739
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:17,600
So it was kind of like, I had a thing about it.

740
01:30:17,600 --> 01:30:22,600
And then, and then what I like about it is,

741
01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:27,480
it's exhausting.

742
01:30:27,480 --> 01:30:28,440
I mean, not that Muay Thai isn't,

743
01:30:28,440 --> 01:30:32,640
but you get your hands on each other, every class,

744
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:34,240
and then you're learning techniques,

745
01:30:34,240 --> 01:30:37,520
and then you are putting those techniques into practice,

746
01:30:37,520 --> 01:30:41,520
real practice sparring rounds, every class.

747
01:30:42,600 --> 01:30:44,160
So the Muay Thai, you might, you know, you might have,

748
01:30:44,160 --> 01:30:45,120
you can only go to the sparring,

749
01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:47,880
like they only have it like Tuesday night or Thursday night,

750
01:30:47,880 --> 01:30:49,480
Saturday afternoons.

751
01:30:49,480 --> 01:30:51,560
You go to go especially to the sparring class,

752
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:54,960
but you're getting practical application of Jiu Jitsu,

753
01:30:54,960 --> 01:30:56,680
every class you go to.

754
01:30:56,680 --> 01:30:59,440
And you really, you know, scratch that itch

755
01:30:59,440 --> 01:31:01,600
of competition a little bit, you know,

756
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:03,280
I know it's not supposed to be,

757
01:31:03,280 --> 01:31:04,840
it's all training and blah, blah, blah.

758
01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:07,720
But you do, you get to like, you know,

759
01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:10,040
try and grapple with someone every time.

760
01:31:10,040 --> 01:31:11,520
And I really, I really liked that.

761
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:16,080
And I kind of knew, I kind of knew from experience that,

762
01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:18,640
you know, fights aren't always like this.

763
01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:23,640
And there are so many self-defense applications

764
01:31:23,640 --> 01:31:28,000
for Jiu Jitsu, being able to control another person

765
01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:35,320
without hurting them, that's another very cool thing.

766
01:31:35,320 --> 01:31:38,560
I got in a wild, when I lived in LA

767
01:31:38,560 --> 01:31:42,520
before I moved back to New York.

768
01:31:42,520 --> 01:31:46,200
So this is a few years before,

769
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:49,720
I caught a bloke trying to steal out of the,

770
01:31:49,720 --> 01:31:51,480
trying to go through our mail on a mailbox,

771
01:31:51,480 --> 01:31:53,600
he was on a bicycle outside.

772
01:31:53,600 --> 01:31:56,480
And I just had an argument with my wife.

773
01:31:56,480 --> 01:31:58,400
I was feeding my son breakfast.

774
01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:00,320
And I see out the window,

775
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:02,760
this dude like going through my mailbox.

776
01:32:03,640 --> 01:32:06,360
So I go, I go, watch buster.

777
01:32:06,360 --> 01:32:08,040
And I storm out of the house

778
01:32:08,040 --> 01:32:10,200
and I don't put my shoes on or nothing.

779
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:12,200
I just, and he goes down the hill on a bike

780
01:32:12,200 --> 01:32:14,800
and I jump in the car and I catch him

781
01:32:14,800 --> 01:32:18,360
at my neighbor's mailbox, doing the same thing.

782
01:32:18,360 --> 01:32:19,680
And I'm like, jump out of the car,

783
01:32:19,680 --> 01:32:21,240
I'm like, oh, and he takes off on his bike.

784
01:32:21,240 --> 01:32:24,200
And then I chase him and I run him off the road

785
01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:25,080
and he takes off.

786
01:32:25,080 --> 01:32:27,440
And we ended up having a brawl.

787
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:29,960
It's like eight o'clock in the morning,

788
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:32,080
it's just nowhere around on a Sunday or whatever.

789
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:34,320
And we had this brawl in the street

790
01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:36,160
and this dude's massive.

791
01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:37,160
And I've got no shoes,

792
01:32:37,160 --> 01:32:39,400
I've got my shorts and no shoes or socks on.

793
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:41,960
And I couldn't control him.

794
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:46,240
And he's trying to get away, but I can't control him.

795
01:32:46,240 --> 01:32:48,240
And so I chase them out

796
01:32:48,240 --> 01:32:51,040
and I'm trying to call the police and I'm going to,

797
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:54,120
and this goes on for 15 minutes.

798
01:32:54,120 --> 01:32:56,800
I call the police three times.

799
01:32:56,800 --> 01:33:00,320
And eventually we're like two streets away

800
01:33:00,320 --> 01:33:01,760
from where I've left my car.

801
01:33:01,760 --> 01:33:04,960
And a detective shows up and pulls a gun on us

802
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:07,000
and tells us to freeze

803
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:10,520
and puts us both in handcuffs up against the wall.

804
01:33:10,520 --> 01:33:12,800
And then eventually the cops all show up

805
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:15,600
and I'd rip this guy's bag off

806
01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:17,240
because when I jump out of the car

807
01:33:17,240 --> 01:33:19,440
and tackle him on someone's lawn, right?

808
01:33:19,440 --> 01:33:23,040
He's got a bag on his, got this little purse.

809
01:33:23,040 --> 01:33:24,320
And I was like, there might be a weapon.

810
01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:27,640
So I grab it and I ripped it off him and I left it there.

811
01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:30,920
And it turned out it had all the neighborhood mail in it.

812
01:33:30,920 --> 01:33:33,400
And it was like, he was working on like check fraud

813
01:33:33,400 --> 01:33:34,800
or whatever.

814
01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:36,960
So I had to tell this story to the police that show up

815
01:33:36,960 --> 01:33:38,200
and they go and they find my car

816
01:33:38,200 --> 01:33:40,120
and they find the bag, thankfully.

817
01:33:41,640 --> 01:33:43,560
And the fire department show up

818
01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:45,920
and I'd taken all the skin off my,

819
01:33:45,920 --> 01:33:47,800
I'd taken like a few toenails off

820
01:33:47,800 --> 01:33:53,320
and all the skin off my knees and they hosed me down.

821
01:33:53,320 --> 01:33:55,560
So Jujitsu appealed to me,

822
01:33:55,560 --> 01:33:58,120
being able to like control somebody

823
01:33:58,120 --> 01:34:02,120
and not letting them run off down the street with your mail.

824
01:34:02,120 --> 01:34:04,040
One of the policemen is like,

825
01:34:05,440 --> 01:34:06,520
hey man, I'm really looking forward

826
01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:08,120
to that new show that's coming out.

827
01:34:09,120 --> 01:34:13,800
It's just elementary, the Sherlock Holmes show that I did

828
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:15,000
was about to come out.

829
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:18,560
So yeah, it was pretty funny.

830
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:20,520
And the other policeman, he says,

831
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:21,920
he says, yeah, it was cool what you did,

832
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:23,040
but next time he says,

833
01:34:23,040 --> 01:34:24,200
if I'm gonna run out to somebody,

834
01:34:24,200 --> 01:34:27,040
I'm gonna make sure I've got my shoes and my gun.

835
01:34:28,840 --> 01:34:30,680
Yeah, well, I'm just gonna say what's funny though

836
01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:34,520
is what you found in that grappling account,

837
01:34:34,520 --> 01:34:37,000
even though you had striking experience

838
01:34:37,000 --> 01:34:39,160
is what we see on tape a lot now

839
01:34:39,160 --> 01:34:40,680
with some of these law enforcement videos.

840
01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:42,680
And it's sad, it's not to belittle anyone,

841
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:44,440
but it just shows the importance of training

842
01:34:44,440 --> 01:34:47,240
and why grappling should be an integral part

843
01:34:47,240 --> 01:34:48,680
of especially law enforcement,

844
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:52,560
because it is really hard just to hold down a human being.

845
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:54,040
I mean, I can't imagine,

846
01:34:54,040 --> 01:34:55,880
I mean, I've had so much admiration for people

847
01:34:55,880 --> 01:34:57,440
that are good at cuffing,

848
01:34:57,440 --> 01:34:59,720
because it's hard as just holding a person down,

849
01:34:59,720 --> 01:35:02,640
but then they get handcuffs on while you're holding them down.

850
01:35:02,640 --> 01:35:05,080
That is so, so challenging.

851
01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:08,320
So that's why it blows my mind when you hear,

852
01:35:08,320 --> 01:35:10,240
some departments have no fitness standards,

853
01:35:10,240 --> 01:35:11,640
they don't give them grappling training,

854
01:35:11,640 --> 01:35:14,840
they shoot six shots once a year,

855
01:35:14,840 --> 01:35:16,680
and then they check the box and they say they're good,

856
01:35:16,680 --> 01:35:19,440
because God forbid that someone that then gets up

857
01:35:19,440 --> 01:35:22,800
and goes and shoots up a school, that's unacceptable.

858
01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:26,360
Yeah, and we have, especially in New York City here,

859
01:35:26,360 --> 01:35:28,400
there's a lot of very,

860
01:35:28,400 --> 01:35:31,840
people with mental illness going around,

861
01:35:31,840 --> 01:35:34,440
and it's not their fault, dude.

862
01:35:34,440 --> 01:35:37,040
And they can be scary.

863
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:42,040
And actually, a friend of mine that I train with,

864
01:35:42,040 --> 01:35:45,400
from evolution, Brian Kemsley, he actually was on the news,

865
01:35:45,400 --> 01:35:47,880
because he actually restrained a dude

866
01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:51,080
that had grabbed someone's kid.

867
01:35:51,080 --> 01:35:55,360
I mean, he was, you know, he was very ill, this dude,

868
01:35:55,360 --> 01:35:59,600
but Brian was able, had some rudimentary jujitsu,

869
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:03,360
and he was able to hold this guy in back control

870
01:36:03,360 --> 01:36:05,840
with a seatbelt for half an hour

871
01:36:05,840 --> 01:36:07,240
before anybody came.

872
01:36:07,240 --> 01:36:09,880
But he didn't have to knock his, you know,

873
01:36:09,880 --> 01:36:11,760
he didn't have to like put his lights out,

874
01:36:11,760 --> 01:36:14,760
and he didn't have to hurt the guy, you know what I mean?

875
01:36:16,760 --> 01:36:18,960
I think that's important, yeah.

876
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:20,280
I just saw a video the other day,

877
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:25,000
I think it was in New York, I'm not sure, but someone,

878
01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:26,800
I think the guy who was stealing

879
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:28,920
from one of the construction workers' cars,

880
01:36:28,920 --> 01:36:30,360
and I've got that right, anyway,

881
01:36:30,360 --> 01:36:33,080
they ended up like taping him to the scaffolding

882
01:36:33,080 --> 01:36:34,440
until the cops came.

883
01:36:34,440 --> 01:36:37,360
He's got one leg up in the air, another arm is over here.

884
01:36:37,360 --> 01:36:38,880
I'm like, well, that works.

885
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:40,520
They used the tools they had.

886
01:36:40,520 --> 01:36:41,360
Exactly.

887
01:36:43,560 --> 01:36:45,720
Well, staying with the first responder professions,

888
01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:47,480
I wanna get to, you know, your most recent projects,

889
01:36:47,480 --> 01:36:48,600
and make sure we talk about that,

890
01:36:48,600 --> 01:36:50,960
but before we do, the fire service.

891
01:36:50,960 --> 01:36:53,680
So Bobby got in, you know, he's a very powerful story

892
01:36:53,680 --> 01:36:55,320
of losing a friend in 9-11,

893
01:36:55,320 --> 01:36:58,280
and that's what took him into the first responder profession.

894
01:36:58,280 --> 01:37:00,400
Here you are now, you know, story, career,

895
01:37:00,400 --> 01:37:02,600
when it comes to the world of acting.

896
01:37:02,600 --> 01:37:05,840
What made you choose to start volunteering

897
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:08,160
as a firefighter in your community?

898
01:37:08,160 --> 01:37:13,160
So I started visiting Fire Island with the family

899
01:37:14,760 --> 01:37:16,480
when we moved to New York,

900
01:37:16,480 --> 01:37:20,680
and it was introduced to me by my ex-wife,

901
01:37:20,680 --> 01:37:24,040
and she's like, we would go there for the summer

902
01:37:24,040 --> 01:37:25,480
and rent someone else's house,

903
01:37:25,480 --> 01:37:27,720
or rent a room that someone else had, you know,

904
01:37:27,720 --> 01:37:30,720
off somebody else, and it was the most peaceful place

905
01:37:30,720 --> 01:37:31,720
I ever been in my life.

906
01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:33,000
One of the most peaceful places,

907
01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:36,560
and every time I go there, I just get this relaxation

908
01:37:36,560 --> 01:37:40,240
just comes over me, and I'm right by the ocean,

909
01:37:40,240 --> 01:37:43,960
and it's green, and there's no cars everywhere.

910
01:37:43,960 --> 01:37:45,320
Everyone goes everywhere on bicycles.

911
01:37:45,320 --> 01:37:48,040
There's a few cars for necessities,

912
01:37:48,040 --> 01:37:49,680
certain people need them,

913
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:54,680
but the streets are very small little pavements, you know?

914
01:37:54,760 --> 01:37:56,760
So it's this great community I fell in love with.

915
01:37:56,760 --> 01:37:59,240
I've going there for like, you know, 10 years on holiday,

916
01:37:59,240 --> 01:38:03,920
and eventually I was able to buy a little place there.

917
01:38:03,920 --> 01:38:05,520
So I've been spending more and more time there,

918
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:08,240
and it's very, very special to me and to my family.

919
01:38:11,040 --> 01:38:12,720
So the more I got into this community,

920
01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:13,880
like the more people I get to know,

921
01:38:13,880 --> 01:38:16,400
so I got to know a couple of people,

922
01:38:16,400 --> 01:38:19,320
and the neighbors were on the fire department,

923
01:38:19,320 --> 01:38:22,560
and then I keep, every time you go to the ferry,

924
01:38:22,560 --> 01:38:24,440
I walk past the fire department,

925
01:38:24,440 --> 01:38:28,840
and I see, oh, there's these signs there, say volunteer,

926
01:38:28,840 --> 01:38:30,560
and the other big thing is,

927
01:38:30,560 --> 01:38:33,600
there's an air horn system, right?

928
01:38:33,600 --> 01:38:38,600
So when the call goes out for the department,

929
01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:42,960
an air horn goes across the community,

930
01:38:42,960 --> 01:38:45,800
and the air horn is right at the end of my street.

931
01:38:45,800 --> 01:38:47,280
So I'd be sitting at home, you know, at night,

932
01:38:47,280 --> 01:38:48,800
and I'd be thinking, well, I'm not doing anything.

933
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:52,760
I could help, it's amazing,

934
01:38:52,760 --> 01:38:54,720
if I'm in an area, I'm not doing anything.

935
01:38:54,720 --> 01:38:56,160
I don't go to the bar, I don't drink, you know,

936
01:38:56,160 --> 01:38:58,760
I don't hang out in bars, so I'm ready to go.

937
01:38:59,680 --> 01:39:01,120
I'm not that old.

938
01:39:03,680 --> 01:39:06,560
So after a couple of years of walking past that sign

939
01:39:06,560 --> 01:39:08,680
saying volunteer, I just thought,

940
01:39:08,680 --> 01:39:12,560
and to be honest, I had always wanted to be a fireman.

941
01:39:12,560 --> 01:39:14,920
I've always had that fantasy in my head,

942
01:39:14,920 --> 01:39:17,400
and then I just managed to put two and two together.

943
01:39:17,400 --> 01:39:19,000
We're like, we can do it.

944
01:39:21,160 --> 01:39:22,720
You don't have to change your life.

945
01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:26,040
You don't have to give up your job.

946
01:39:26,040 --> 01:39:29,880
And so I looked into it about what the commitment was,

947
01:39:29,880 --> 01:39:31,440
and they're like, no, it's just when you're here,

948
01:39:31,440 --> 01:39:34,040
you're here, if you're available, you're available.

949
01:39:34,040 --> 01:39:35,560
You're not required to be here

950
01:39:35,560 --> 01:39:37,920
any amount of time specifically.

951
01:39:37,920 --> 01:39:40,640
So I was like, well, I might fit with my job.

952
01:39:40,640 --> 01:39:44,040
So I just walked in one day and asked,

953
01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:47,800
and had got a bit of paperwork,

954
01:39:47,800 --> 01:39:50,160
and then knowing a few people in the community,

955
01:39:50,160 --> 01:39:52,840
they vote you in, they have a...

956
01:39:54,880 --> 01:39:57,880
And I was sponsored in by

957
01:40:00,440 --> 01:40:02,720
Captain Paul Brinkat.

958
01:40:02,720 --> 01:40:06,440
He's a captain there, but he's a career FDNY guy,

959
01:40:06,440 --> 01:40:08,960
and we have a few of those guys.

960
01:40:11,760 --> 01:40:15,800
And I was seconded by another really nice guy, Steve,

961
01:40:15,800 --> 01:40:17,880
who I'd met, he was a lieutenant there.

962
01:40:17,880 --> 01:40:20,920
And next thing I know, I got voted in,

963
01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:22,200
and then they're like, well, when can you go

964
01:40:22,200 --> 01:40:23,040
and do the course?

965
01:40:23,040 --> 01:40:26,880
And so I grew up almost next to a fire station

966
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:29,720
out of my sister's back window in Kingston.

967
01:40:29,720 --> 01:40:33,000
We had, you could see the old practice towers,

968
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:34,360
the really British ones, you know,

969
01:40:34,360 --> 01:40:38,920
that's just like a brick column going up about four floors.

970
01:40:38,920 --> 01:40:40,840
And we'd always see them training on that.

971
01:40:40,840 --> 01:40:44,360
And like any kids into being a fireman,

972
01:40:44,360 --> 01:40:46,200
but with me, it was always like,

973
01:40:46,200 --> 01:40:50,920
ah, and I've always been quite,

974
01:40:50,920 --> 01:40:53,560
never really talk about this, but I've always been quite,

975
01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:57,000
I went through a specific period of being kind of ashamed

976
01:40:57,000 --> 01:40:57,840
about being an actor.

977
01:40:57,840 --> 01:41:00,120
And if anyone's ever like, you know, what do you do?

978
01:41:00,120 --> 01:41:01,440
It's like, I hate telling people

979
01:41:01,440 --> 01:41:03,280
that that's what I do for a living,

980
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:07,080
because I think it's got a place in the world,

981
01:41:07,080 --> 01:41:09,400
but I don't, I think it's overrated.

982
01:41:09,400 --> 01:41:14,400
And everyone likes stories,

983
01:41:14,400 --> 01:41:17,200
everyone wants to watch movies and television,

984
01:41:17,200 --> 01:41:18,160
and that's fine.

985
01:41:18,160 --> 01:41:19,280
And it's good.

986
01:41:19,280 --> 01:41:24,280
I got over my kind of hatred of it, I suppose,

987
01:41:26,600 --> 01:41:29,600
but I never really felt like that it was cool.

988
01:41:34,080 --> 01:41:35,880
I know I was good at it, but I don't know,

989
01:41:35,880 --> 01:41:37,960
it's never really been like, you know,

990
01:41:37,960 --> 01:41:39,800
well, fucking good on you, man.

991
01:41:39,800 --> 01:41:41,000
You're a fucking actor.

992
01:41:41,000 --> 01:41:45,480
And then I was like, well, look, here's a chance

993
01:41:45,480 --> 01:41:50,160
to like actually like do something really awesome,

994
01:41:50,160 --> 01:41:54,160
because, and I know it's kind of,

995
01:41:54,160 --> 01:41:55,640
I know that kind of sounds selfish,

996
01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:59,280
and there's that dichotomy of, you know,

997
01:41:59,280 --> 01:42:04,280
I can't say it's really like, I had to serve the community.

998
01:42:04,400 --> 01:42:06,240
It's a two-way deal.

999
01:42:06,240 --> 01:42:11,240
I get to do something that I absolutely

1000
01:42:11,240 --> 01:42:14,280
have secretly been obsessed with my whole life,

1001
01:42:15,520 --> 01:42:20,520
and see if I can do it, and see if I can meet the standard.

1002
01:42:22,920 --> 01:42:26,880
And the bonus is we get to help, you know?

1003
01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:31,040
I don't know, I think if I'm really honest,

1004
01:42:31,040 --> 01:42:33,440
it's like, it's a two-way thing for me, you know?

1005
01:42:33,440 --> 01:42:35,240
But that's the way the world works, right?

1006
01:42:35,240 --> 01:42:38,000
I mean, you know, it's like, so I walked in,

1007
01:42:38,000 --> 01:42:42,200
and honestly, it's like a couple of months later,

1008
01:42:42,200 --> 01:42:44,360
I'm going to the Suffolk County Fire Academy,

1009
01:42:44,360 --> 01:42:45,960
which I know Bobby talked about,

1010
01:42:48,040 --> 01:42:53,040
and I just felt like a million dollars, man,

1011
01:42:53,040 --> 01:42:54,360
going into that classroom,

1012
01:42:54,360 --> 01:42:57,680
and listening to those lectures, and doing it.

1013
01:42:57,680 --> 01:42:59,160
And then I discovered that,

1014
01:42:59,160 --> 01:43:00,720
because I kind of blew school off,

1015
01:43:00,720 --> 01:43:02,280
I had to do a lot of work,

1016
01:43:02,280 --> 01:43:03,520
and I kind of blew school off,

1017
01:43:03,520 --> 01:43:06,920
I couldn't really deal with school when I was there.

1018
01:43:06,920 --> 01:43:11,360
I did okay, but I coasted, man, and I hated it.

1019
01:43:12,600 --> 01:43:15,240
But I couldn't have been in that classroom too much, man.

1020
01:43:15,240 --> 01:43:17,040
It's like, and I discovered that if I'm,

1021
01:43:17,040 --> 01:43:18,960
if you're doing a subject that you care about,

1022
01:43:18,960 --> 01:43:21,080
and that you find interesting, like,

1023
01:43:21,080 --> 01:43:25,560
dude, I'll study fucking fire dynamics till,

1024
01:43:25,560 --> 01:43:27,480
you know, my head falls off.

1025
01:43:27,480 --> 01:43:28,720
You're like, what's today?

1026
01:43:28,720 --> 01:43:30,160
Oh, tactical ventilation?

1027
01:43:30,160 --> 01:43:33,240
Fuck yeah, you know, I couldn't get enough of it.

1028
01:43:33,240 --> 01:43:35,440
I've got the textbook right here, actually.

1029
01:43:35,440 --> 01:43:39,520
And I did really well on the classes,

1030
01:43:39,520 --> 01:43:42,840
and when it was practical days,

1031
01:43:45,000 --> 01:43:47,720
I mean, that's the super,

1032
01:43:47,720 --> 01:43:49,760
you don't get that many practical days

1033
01:43:49,760 --> 01:43:51,800
in volunteer in the academy,

1034
01:43:51,800 --> 01:43:54,800
because the whole course has to be structured

1035
01:43:54,800 --> 01:43:56,520
around people who have jobs.

1036
01:43:56,520 --> 01:44:00,200
So you can only go like Wednesday evenings

1037
01:44:00,200 --> 01:44:02,360
or Tuesday evenings, or we,

1038
01:44:02,360 --> 01:44:04,360
I was in the Sunday morning classes,

1039
01:44:04,360 --> 01:44:06,680
and, but I couldn't get enough of it.

1040
01:44:06,680 --> 01:44:11,200
And obviously you can only learn what you need to function

1041
01:44:12,160 --> 01:44:14,040
on a five month course.

1042
01:44:14,040 --> 01:44:18,000
You learn most of the stuff after that, you know,

1043
01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:19,400
on the job, right?

1044
01:44:19,400 --> 01:44:21,760
And going to drills and stuff like that.

1045
01:44:21,760 --> 01:44:26,760
But it's, yeah, I just, you know,

1046
01:44:27,040 --> 01:44:29,560
you could say I wish I'd done it before or whatever,

1047
01:44:29,560 --> 01:44:31,920
but maybe, but I think I've got a good 20 years in me.

1048
01:44:31,920 --> 01:44:34,480
I keep myself in pretty good shape.

1049
01:44:34,480 --> 01:44:39,000
So I think I've got a long time of being able to,

1050
01:44:39,000 --> 01:44:41,920
looking forward to being able to serve a community

1051
01:44:41,920 --> 01:44:44,560
that I genuinely love, that place.

1052
01:44:44,560 --> 01:44:47,720
So it's just, it was just perfect, perfect storm,

1053
01:44:47,720 --> 01:44:49,960
somewhere that I really care about.

1054
01:44:49,960 --> 01:44:54,960
Somewhere that I really care about getting to, you know,

1055
01:44:55,520 --> 01:44:58,080
so far just, you know, pretend to be this whatever,

1056
01:44:58,080 --> 01:45:03,080
but hopefully one day I'll be able to call my,

1057
01:45:04,200 --> 01:45:06,120
you know, feel properly like I,

1058
01:45:06,120 --> 01:45:08,280
like I know what I'm doing more, you know?

1059
01:45:11,520 --> 01:45:12,360
Couple of things.

1060
01:45:12,360 --> 01:45:13,200
Firstly, I totally relate.

1061
01:45:13,200 --> 01:45:14,880
I was a straight C student in school

1062
01:45:14,880 --> 01:45:17,480
and straight A student in fire school and paramedic school

1063
01:45:17,480 --> 01:45:19,320
because I got it and it made sense.

1064
01:45:19,320 --> 01:45:21,360
So I can totally relate there.

1065
01:45:21,360 --> 01:45:24,120
Also with the actor thing, I was kind of on the other side.

1066
01:45:24,120 --> 01:45:25,960
I was a full-time career firefighter,

1067
01:45:25,960 --> 01:45:28,320
but I did stunts on the side as kind of my side hustle

1068
01:45:28,320 --> 01:45:30,680
for the last 20 plus years.

1069
01:45:30,680 --> 01:45:34,120
And I remember I was doing this pirate dinner show in Orlando

1070
01:45:34,120 --> 01:45:36,720
and I remember coming off shift and we'd probably done,

1071
01:45:36,720 --> 01:45:38,640
you know, something of consequence, you know,

1072
01:45:38,640 --> 01:45:40,680
something significant that shift.

1073
01:45:40,680 --> 01:45:44,080
And then a few hours later, I go into the green room

1074
01:45:44,080 --> 01:45:46,600
and someone's queening out about their costume.

1075
01:45:46,600 --> 01:45:49,200
And I was just remember sitting there going,

1076
01:45:49,200 --> 01:45:51,000
it doesn't matter, you know what I mean?

1077
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:53,360
And there are some phenomenal people that act,

1078
01:45:53,360 --> 01:45:55,240
that do stunts, you know, that are selfless

1079
01:45:55,240 --> 01:45:56,560
and incredible human beings.

1080
01:45:56,560 --> 01:45:58,840
Bobby obviously is one of them.

1081
01:45:58,840 --> 01:46:00,600
But it did kind of make me realize

1082
01:46:00,600 --> 01:46:04,000
that when I was playing stunt man,

1083
01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:05,400
I was the center of attention.

1084
01:46:05,400 --> 01:46:08,160
And this audience in the round was watching me, you know,

1085
01:46:08,160 --> 01:46:10,400
swinging from ropes and doing soul fights and stuff.

1086
01:46:10,400 --> 01:46:14,400
But when I was in uniform, it was about the other people.

1087
01:46:14,400 --> 01:46:15,400
It was about who we serve.

1088
01:46:15,400 --> 01:46:16,800
So that dichotomy is true.

1089
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:21,800
And then to say, if serving others meant

1090
01:46:21,840 --> 01:46:24,080
I had to sit in a factory for 12 hours,

1091
01:46:24,080 --> 01:46:26,520
then yes, I would say this is purely selfless.

1092
01:46:26,520 --> 01:46:30,440
But when serving others means that you can also extricate

1093
01:46:30,440 --> 01:46:33,280
and go into burning buildings and, you know,

1094
01:46:33,280 --> 01:46:36,880
perform CPR and that stuff, 100% it is service,

1095
01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:39,000
but it is so gratifying as well.

1096
01:46:39,000 --> 01:46:41,920
So it definitely is a double edged sword in a positive way.

1097
01:46:41,920 --> 01:46:46,920
And, you know, like I think I don't really have a,

1098
01:46:46,920 --> 01:46:51,920
I have no problem with dangerous situations.

1099
01:46:52,840 --> 01:46:53,680
You know what I mean?

1100
01:46:53,680 --> 01:46:56,960
And I kind of, you know, not everyone's like that,

1101
01:46:56,960 --> 01:46:58,680
I suppose.

1102
01:46:58,680 --> 01:47:00,120
So why not?

1103
01:47:00,120 --> 01:47:02,480
Let's go, you know, why not?

1104
01:47:02,480 --> 01:47:07,480
And, you know, I think that's, you know,

1105
01:47:08,240 --> 01:47:11,000
if you don't have a problem with it, step up,

1106
01:47:11,000 --> 01:47:12,160
you know what I mean?

1107
01:47:14,920 --> 01:47:17,320
I, you know, there's that thing as well.

1108
01:47:17,320 --> 01:47:20,000
Like if you're gonna do a job, whether, you know,

1109
01:47:20,000 --> 01:47:21,880
acting or whatever, it's, you know,

1110
01:47:21,880 --> 01:47:24,400
I can really identify with taking it very seriously

1111
01:47:24,400 --> 01:47:25,720
and getting into it.

1112
01:47:25,720 --> 01:47:27,280
And for a long time I didn't,

1113
01:47:27,280 --> 01:47:30,720
because I've been doing acting for 40 years

1114
01:47:30,720 --> 01:47:33,800
and I can't maintain that kind of like, I don't know,

1115
01:47:33,800 --> 01:47:37,040
that they can't maintain like the method or whatever

1116
01:47:37,040 --> 01:47:38,600
for that long for me.

1117
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:41,240
And so I used to be sort of really into it,

1118
01:47:41,240 --> 01:47:43,560
like passionate about it when I was younger.

1119
01:47:43,560 --> 01:47:45,360
And then I go like, ah, so now, now,

1120
01:47:45,360 --> 01:47:47,640
then it's fun and then it's like, so what?

1121
01:47:47,640 --> 01:47:51,280
And then I guess actually, you know,

1122
01:47:51,280 --> 01:47:54,760
having been in recovery, I got way more serious about it.

1123
01:47:54,760 --> 01:47:58,080
And I was like, I don't work as much, a lot,

1124
01:47:58,080 --> 01:48:01,640
because I've been able to sort of save, right?

1125
01:48:01,640 --> 01:48:03,120
So I don't have to work.

1126
01:48:03,120 --> 01:48:06,280
So when I do work, I take it pretty seriously

1127
01:48:06,280 --> 01:48:09,200
and I'm able to, but it's like,

1128
01:48:09,200 --> 01:48:11,880
you don't get upset about stuff.

1129
01:48:12,760 --> 01:48:14,240
You just take it seriously.

1130
01:48:14,240 --> 01:48:15,680
Like there's a difference, you know?

1131
01:48:15,680 --> 01:48:20,680
And I think it's okay to take something ridiculous,

1132
01:48:21,120 --> 01:48:23,760
like pretending to be another person very seriously

1133
01:48:23,760 --> 01:48:25,600
if you're gonna do it, it's okay.

1134
01:48:25,600 --> 01:48:29,240
But as long as you remember that that's what it is

1135
01:48:29,240 --> 01:48:32,360
and you're telling a story and it has its place

1136
01:48:32,360 --> 01:48:35,640
in society and in the world, but that's all it is.

1137
01:48:35,640 --> 01:48:40,640
But when I went on, I was leaving Fire Island to go to do,

1138
01:48:41,120 --> 01:48:42,720
you're okay, you can walk north.

1139
01:48:44,480 --> 01:48:45,320
As my son.

1140
01:48:45,320 --> 01:48:46,160
He's creeping.

1141
01:48:46,160 --> 01:48:47,120
Yeah, he's creeping.

1142
01:48:48,560 --> 01:48:50,720
I was leaving Fire Island to go and do this play

1143
01:48:50,720 --> 01:48:51,960
in the UK last summer.

1144
01:48:51,960 --> 01:48:56,960
And I'd been an active duty firefighter for a short while.

1145
01:48:58,040 --> 01:48:59,760
I'm just wishing for the pager to go off,

1146
01:48:59,760 --> 01:49:02,080
which is terrible, because I'm not wishing harm on anybody

1147
01:49:02,080 --> 01:49:03,960
or a district, but you know what I mean?

1148
01:49:03,960 --> 01:49:05,360
I do, 100%.

1149
01:49:05,360 --> 01:49:07,520
Everybody who's been there knows.

1150
01:49:07,520 --> 01:49:10,840
And it goes off.

1151
01:49:12,320 --> 01:49:16,720
I've just been watching, I've been watching this NBC

1152
01:49:17,680 --> 01:49:20,080
documentary about the LA Fire Department.

1153
01:49:20,080 --> 01:49:22,440
They had just come out and it was like,

1154
01:49:22,440 --> 01:49:24,560
action, action, action, action, action.

1155
01:49:24,560 --> 01:49:27,200
They're going, they're on calls, calls, calls.

1156
01:49:27,200 --> 01:49:29,160
And I'm like, wow, those guys are so busy.

1157
01:49:29,160 --> 01:49:30,000
That's amazing.

1158
01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:31,560
They have so much experience.

1159
01:49:31,560 --> 01:49:34,120
Oh my God, I've gotta go and do this play.

1160
01:49:34,120 --> 01:49:35,320
I'm gonna be away for a while.

1161
01:49:35,320 --> 01:49:37,200
And then the season's gonna be over.

1162
01:49:37,200 --> 01:49:38,400
And then it might be another year

1163
01:49:38,400 --> 01:49:40,480
until I get to do that shit.

1164
01:49:40,480 --> 01:49:43,240
And then the pager and the siren go off

1165
01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:46,520
and the pager talks to you, the volunteer pager.

1166
01:49:46,520 --> 01:49:48,160
It's like a one-way radio.

1167
01:49:49,120 --> 01:49:51,920
It says working structure fire.

1168
01:49:51,920 --> 01:49:55,520
And I'm like, I've just finished what,

1169
01:49:55,520 --> 01:49:56,480
I was like, what?

1170
01:49:56,480 --> 01:49:58,400
And I go outside my house, I can smell it,

1171
01:49:58,400 --> 01:49:59,480
because it's two blocks away

1172
01:49:59,480 --> 01:50:02,040
and I could smell smoke in the air.

1173
01:50:02,040 --> 01:50:04,520
My heart starts racing.

1174
01:50:04,520 --> 01:50:06,240
And we go and we get to this,

1175
01:50:06,240 --> 01:50:09,880
we get to all the brush between two houses

1176
01:50:11,120 --> 01:50:14,760
right next to the beach had caught fire, was going.

1177
01:50:14,760 --> 01:50:17,440
And it was just getting down the side

1178
01:50:17,440 --> 01:50:18,720
and under the side of the house,

1179
01:50:18,720 --> 01:50:20,480
the main house is on stilts.

1180
01:50:20,480 --> 01:50:21,880
And it was just getting there

1181
01:50:21,880 --> 01:50:23,800
and it had gone down the side and it was on his deck

1182
01:50:23,800 --> 01:50:24,640
and it was getting,

1183
01:50:24,640 --> 01:50:26,640
and it was melting the siding on the deck

1184
01:50:26,640 --> 01:50:29,160
and was just getting to the propane tank.

1185
01:50:29,160 --> 01:50:33,880
And we got to it before his house burned down

1186
01:50:33,880 --> 01:50:36,480
and nobody got hurt.

1187
01:50:36,480 --> 01:50:38,400
And it spread to the next yard,

1188
01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:41,040
but we got that as well from a different line.

1189
01:50:41,040 --> 01:50:44,200
And we stayed to make sure.

1190
01:50:44,200 --> 01:50:48,560
And just seeing, I kind of like, I was like,

1191
01:50:50,160 --> 01:50:53,120
because I think the first, we went, the first crew,

1192
01:50:53,120 --> 01:50:56,720
there was only three of us,

1193
01:50:56,720 --> 01:50:59,120
there was only two of us, I think with packs on.

1194
01:50:59,960 --> 01:51:03,040
And then we had the lieutenant and the captain.

1195
01:51:03,040 --> 01:51:06,760
And then another truck came with some other guys.

1196
01:51:06,760 --> 01:51:11,360
And I was just like, I just went to the hydrant,

1197
01:51:11,360 --> 01:51:13,640
I flushed the hydrant and fucking,

1198
01:51:13,640 --> 01:51:14,840
to help with the hookup there.

1199
01:51:14,840 --> 01:51:17,680
And then went on the hose line.

1200
01:51:17,680 --> 01:51:20,880
And we stayed for about two hours making the hotspots.

1201
01:51:20,880 --> 01:51:22,280
And they had the infrared cameras

1202
01:51:22,280 --> 01:51:24,840
and checking for the underground burning and all that stuff.

1203
01:51:24,840 --> 01:51:27,760
And the guy was so happy that his house,

1204
01:51:27,760 --> 01:51:29,600
because there was a breeze off the,

1205
01:51:29,600 --> 01:51:31,200
there was like a 10 mile an hour breeze,

1206
01:51:31,200 --> 01:51:32,440
which was absolutely deadly.

1207
01:51:32,440 --> 01:51:36,160
And in Fire Island, it's dry and you get that ocean breeze

1208
01:51:36,160 --> 01:51:38,000
and you can lose like half a block.

1209
01:51:40,120 --> 01:51:42,200
So it was just like the perfect thing,

1210
01:51:42,200 --> 01:51:47,160
but watching how amazingly professional the guys were.

1211
01:51:47,160 --> 01:51:50,760
And we had an engine come from Bobby's department

1212
01:51:50,760 --> 01:51:54,320
as mutual aid and they weren't needed.

1213
01:51:54,320 --> 01:51:56,760
And so everyone was proud because we're like,

1214
01:51:56,760 --> 01:51:58,400
the little country bumpkin.

1215
01:52:00,200 --> 01:52:01,840
But we handled it, you know?

1216
01:52:01,840 --> 01:52:06,720
And I just, I didn't sleep for hours.

1217
01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:09,440
It was just the greatest day of my life, dude.

1218
01:52:10,320 --> 01:52:13,200
I mean, no offense to my son there.

1219
01:52:14,560 --> 01:52:16,880
Again, people just think I'm like, we love our kids.

1220
01:52:16,880 --> 01:52:18,040
Because nobody got hurt.

1221
01:52:18,040 --> 01:52:20,960
The house didn't go, you know what I mean?

1222
01:52:20,960 --> 01:52:22,120
We got to it like,

1223
01:52:22,120 --> 01:52:25,160
the stilts were just charring.

1224
01:52:25,160 --> 01:52:29,840
And so it was the perfect thing.

1225
01:52:29,840 --> 01:52:31,000
Why was I telling that?

1226
01:52:32,360 --> 01:52:33,600
It's because it's funny.

1227
01:52:33,600 --> 01:52:36,240
Yeah, because I was about to go and then do this play.

1228
01:52:37,760 --> 01:52:38,600
You know?

1229
01:52:39,760 --> 01:52:43,120
But I got to go on a job.

1230
01:52:44,080 --> 01:52:46,360
I mean, I'd been called out before where we do,

1231
01:52:46,360 --> 01:52:48,760
we get called out for helicopter landings.

1232
01:52:48,760 --> 01:52:50,840
When, because that's the only way for someone

1233
01:52:50,840 --> 01:52:53,040
who gets seriously injured to get off the island.

1234
01:52:54,840 --> 01:52:57,120
So we get called out for those.

1235
01:52:57,120 --> 01:52:58,920
But I'd only been to like two landings

1236
01:52:58,920 --> 01:53:02,960
and then that was my first fire.

1237
01:53:04,000 --> 01:53:09,000
And I just, I'll tell you what, that's why I like doing,

1238
01:53:09,400 --> 01:53:11,840
I mean, it was just an incredible feeling

1239
01:53:11,840 --> 01:53:13,840
to have helped out like that.

1240
01:53:13,840 --> 01:53:16,680
And I was like, I would,

1241
01:53:16,680 --> 01:53:19,600
I would happily just do that for the rest of my life.

1242
01:53:19,600 --> 01:53:24,600
And kind of, you know, part of me wishes that, you know,

1243
01:53:26,760 --> 01:53:29,080
no, I mean, not really, because I'm a realist

1244
01:53:29,080 --> 01:53:31,120
and I realized that that's silly.

1245
01:53:31,120 --> 01:53:33,760
But honestly, if I could earn a living doing it,

1246
01:53:33,760 --> 01:53:36,320
I would do it probably 24 seven.

1247
01:53:37,160 --> 01:53:38,480
Yeah, it is amazing.

1248
01:53:38,480 --> 01:53:40,760
This is why, you know, there's people that volunteers do it,

1249
01:53:40,760 --> 01:53:43,600
people that are paid on call, there's career people

1250
01:53:43,600 --> 01:53:47,040
that arguably in a lot of countries work in very,

1251
01:53:47,040 --> 01:53:50,720
very poor conditions, unbeknownst to the average citizen,

1252
01:53:50,720 --> 01:53:52,960
but you know, they are worked into the ground,

1253
01:53:52,960 --> 01:53:54,640
but this is a calling, you know,

1254
01:53:54,640 --> 01:53:56,040
and I think it does balance us.

1255
01:53:56,040 --> 01:53:56,880
It was so nice.

1256
01:53:56,880 --> 01:53:58,000
I had it the other way, you know,

1257
01:53:58,000 --> 01:53:59,600
I got to do all the serious stuff

1258
01:53:59,600 --> 01:54:01,960
and then I got to run around as a pirate

1259
01:54:01,960 --> 01:54:04,880
or most recently get beaten up by Jason Bourne

1260
01:54:04,880 --> 01:54:06,840
in the stunt show, you know, so, you know,

1261
01:54:06,840 --> 01:54:08,400
you get to play the other end, but it is,

1262
01:54:08,400 --> 01:54:09,880
it's a beautiful feeling.

1263
01:54:09,880 --> 01:54:10,720
I think it's what's needed.

1264
01:54:10,720 --> 01:54:11,560
And this is why I talk about it.

1265
01:54:11,560 --> 01:54:14,480
With Bobby in the second conversation was volunteerism,

1266
01:54:14,480 --> 01:54:17,360
you know, and this time there's definitely places

1267
01:54:17,360 --> 01:54:19,720
around the country where maybe we shouldn't have volunteer

1268
01:54:19,720 --> 01:54:21,960
firefighters because it's a very affluent community

1269
01:54:21,960 --> 01:54:24,000
and they probably should have a full-time career department,

1270
01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:26,080
but, you know, I think volunteerism,

1271
01:54:26,080 --> 01:54:27,840
whether it's in the firefight uniform

1272
01:54:27,840 --> 01:54:31,400
or mentorship in the community, you know, whatever it is,

1273
01:54:33,000 --> 01:54:35,160
without getting political, because it's not,

1274
01:54:35,160 --> 01:54:38,680
but I haven't seen a lot of community

1275
01:54:38,680 --> 01:54:43,680
building from a lot of the people at the very top

1276
01:54:43,680 --> 01:54:44,920
of the political chain recently.

1277
01:54:44,920 --> 01:54:47,120
It's a lot of very divisive, you know,

1278
01:54:47,120 --> 01:54:48,280
rhetoric from both sides.

1279
01:54:48,280 --> 01:54:51,560
So I think volunteerism community, some of these,

1280
01:54:51,560 --> 01:54:56,560
you know, compassionate elements of humanity,

1281
01:54:56,560 --> 01:54:57,520
we need to refine that.

1282
01:54:57,520 --> 01:55:00,480
And I think it's awesome that you found it now at this age.

1283
01:55:00,480 --> 01:55:01,320
Yeah.

1284
01:55:01,320 --> 01:55:04,040
And, you know, another thing about those things is like,

1285
01:55:04,040 --> 01:55:06,720
especially in firehouses, they get very, very,

1286
01:55:06,720 --> 01:55:11,720
in our firehouse, so you've got,

1287
01:55:12,840 --> 01:55:16,600
it's a very broad spectrum and you have

1288
01:55:16,600 --> 01:55:18,520
all political views there.

1289
01:55:18,520 --> 01:55:22,320
And so all the people that are coming together to volunteer

1290
01:55:22,320 --> 01:55:27,320
or coming together, you get a look at the other point of view,

1291
01:55:28,280 --> 01:55:33,280
if you will, a lot more, because then you're not staying

1292
01:55:33,280 --> 01:55:37,480
in your own little group of people that all have the kind

1293
01:55:37,480 --> 01:55:41,080
of same opinions and you're kind of friend pool or whatever.

1294
01:55:41,080 --> 01:55:45,000
You're mixing with very different kinds of people

1295
01:55:45,000 --> 01:55:47,120
and you realize that you've got way more in common.

1296
01:55:47,120 --> 01:55:49,840
And I love that shit, you know what I mean?

1297
01:55:49,840 --> 01:55:52,880
I love those bridges in life between people,

1298
01:55:52,880 --> 01:55:55,640
between people of opposing political views.

1299
01:55:55,640 --> 01:55:57,720
And I love that common ground.

1300
01:55:57,720 --> 01:56:00,000
And I think there's a lot more to be had.

1301
01:56:00,000 --> 01:56:05,000
So the volunteer fire service is pretty amazing for that.

1302
01:56:05,080 --> 01:56:09,320
So we got some newer guys, younger guys.

1303
01:56:09,320 --> 01:56:11,520
It's funny, I put myself in that group of the newer,

1304
01:56:11,520 --> 01:56:16,120
younger guys and I'm fucking 51, but it's like, you know,

1305
01:56:16,120 --> 01:56:19,280
there's a sort of a whole new influx coming in.

1306
01:56:20,320 --> 01:56:22,840
And then you've got, you know, your traditional,

1307
01:56:22,840 --> 01:56:24,920
you know, blue collar older dudes.

1308
01:56:27,720 --> 01:56:29,200
Yeah.

1309
01:56:29,200 --> 01:56:30,040
Brilliant.

1310
01:56:30,040 --> 01:56:30,960
Well, I want to hit one more topic

1311
01:56:30,960 --> 01:56:32,120
and then go to some closing questions.

1312
01:56:32,120 --> 01:56:33,280
So I've been mindful of your time

1313
01:56:33,280 --> 01:56:34,880
and let you get back to your son.

1314
01:56:34,880 --> 01:56:38,720
But just before we go to those, you know, you had,

1315
01:56:38,720 --> 01:56:40,280
you know, a story career, as you said,

1316
01:56:40,280 --> 01:56:42,480
it was elementary as well.

1317
01:56:43,760 --> 01:56:44,600
Oh my goodness.

1318
01:56:44,600 --> 01:56:46,000
You had it, Lucy Liu.

1319
01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:46,840
Lucy Liu, thank you.

1320
01:56:46,840 --> 01:56:48,920
And she was literally my teenage crush as well.

1321
01:56:48,920 --> 01:56:50,520
So I don't know why, probably because of that.

1322
01:56:50,520 --> 01:56:53,000
Maybe my brain exploded just then.

1323
01:56:53,000 --> 01:56:55,000
So, you know, multiple seasons with that.

1324
01:56:56,360 --> 01:56:57,920
Talk to me about most recently,

1325
01:56:57,920 --> 01:56:59,560
what are some of the projects that you've already done

1326
01:56:59,560 --> 01:57:02,280
or you're about to work on that you're excited about?

1327
01:57:02,280 --> 01:57:05,080
Well, I mean, I was mentioning last summer,

1328
01:57:05,080 --> 01:57:06,880
I had to go to England to do this play

1329
01:57:06,880 --> 01:57:10,120
and I went to England and did a play over the summer,

1330
01:57:11,240 --> 01:57:14,000
a small theater in London called the Almeida Theater.

1331
01:57:14,880 --> 01:57:16,280
And it was a big success.

1332
01:57:16,280 --> 01:57:18,960
And so we got an offer to transfer to the West End,

1333
01:57:18,960 --> 01:57:23,360
which is, you know, like London to Broadway.

1334
01:57:23,360 --> 01:57:27,840
And so I'm going back there to do that in January.

1335
01:57:27,840 --> 01:57:30,360
And the dates got moved forward to the winter.

1336
01:57:30,360 --> 01:57:32,400
So I'm very happy because I'll be back in time

1337
01:57:32,400 --> 01:57:35,680
for fire season on the island.

1338
01:57:37,040 --> 01:57:38,520
So I'm really happy about that.

1339
01:57:38,520 --> 01:57:42,000
But so, yeah, and the theater for me is just,

1340
01:57:45,120 --> 01:57:48,320
my grandfather liked the theater more than films.

1341
01:57:49,760 --> 01:57:51,560
And I'm the same.

1342
01:57:51,560 --> 01:57:56,560
I, so it's the only time you can actually like,

1343
01:58:00,400 --> 01:58:03,000
I mean, acting can be fun, right?

1344
01:58:03,000 --> 01:58:04,640
Making a movie can be fun.

1345
01:58:04,640 --> 01:58:06,120
You go to some cool places,

1346
01:58:06,120 --> 01:58:10,920
but it's rare that you're doing a scene with someone

1347
01:58:10,920 --> 01:58:13,280
in a movie and then you go home and you're like,

1348
01:58:13,280 --> 01:58:16,360
fuck yeah, man, that was fucking like, wow,

1349
01:58:16,360 --> 01:58:18,080
we did some acting.

1350
01:58:18,080 --> 01:58:20,200
That's kind of not the vibe, right?

1351
01:58:20,200 --> 01:58:24,000
In the theater, you do the whole story

1352
01:58:24,000 --> 01:58:26,960
in front of an audience and our play is a lot of fun.

1353
01:58:26,960 --> 01:58:29,000
It's called A Mirror, this play.

1354
01:58:29,000 --> 01:58:31,080
It's by Samantha Holcroft.

1355
01:58:31,080 --> 01:58:36,080
It was a new play and it takes place under the auspice

1356
01:58:36,400 --> 01:58:38,200
of you're going to a wedding.

1357
01:58:39,440 --> 01:58:42,120
So the whole audience are wedding guests

1358
01:58:42,120 --> 01:58:45,120
and you've got wedding chairs there and an order of service.

1359
01:58:45,120 --> 01:58:49,800
And then we start and this police,

1360
01:58:49,800 --> 01:58:51,920
this undercover police officer gets up and leaves

1361
01:58:51,920 --> 01:58:54,280
as soon as we've started the service.

1362
01:58:54,280 --> 01:58:56,360
And then it turns out we are,

1363
01:58:57,360 --> 01:58:59,320
we just wanted to get rid of that person,

1364
01:58:59,320 --> 01:59:02,280
but we're actually here to do an illegal,

1365
01:59:02,280 --> 01:59:05,080
unlicensed play for the audience.

1366
01:59:05,080 --> 01:59:07,240
And that's why everybody's here.

1367
01:59:07,240 --> 01:59:10,640
And the play that takes, so we're in this world of,

1368
01:59:10,640 --> 01:59:13,160
it's not England and it's somewhere,

1369
01:59:13,160 --> 01:59:14,760
but it's a bit more authoritarian.

1370
01:59:14,760 --> 01:59:19,600
And it is, we then go and tell this story for the audience.

1371
01:59:19,600 --> 01:59:21,360
And there's a lot of audience participation in it.

1372
01:59:21,360 --> 01:59:23,040
A couple of times we think we're going to be found out.

1373
01:59:23,040 --> 01:59:25,720
So we have to go back to the wedding scenario,

1374
01:59:25,720 --> 01:59:28,080
but it's actually very funny and it addresses

1375
01:59:29,200 --> 01:59:34,200
topics of censorship and truth and propaganda.

1376
01:59:38,440 --> 01:59:39,680
So loved in this play.

1377
01:59:39,680 --> 01:59:40,640
So when you're doing the theater,

1378
01:59:40,640 --> 01:59:41,720
you're doing it in front of things

1379
01:59:41,720 --> 01:59:44,200
and you make an audience laugh and you can freak them out

1380
01:59:44,200 --> 01:59:46,520
and you can get them scared and do all that stuff.

1381
01:59:46,520 --> 01:59:48,640
And then when they appreciate it and they love it

1382
01:59:48,640 --> 01:59:51,120
and that the whole place is like buzzing

1383
01:59:51,120 --> 01:59:55,560
and it's terrifying, every night it's like nerve wracking.

1384
01:59:55,560 --> 01:59:56,640
Are you going to get this right?

1385
01:59:56,640 --> 01:59:58,800
Are you going to get that wrong?

1386
01:59:58,800 --> 02:00:01,960
And then you can shove a performance down

1387
02:00:01,960 --> 02:00:04,560
an audience's throat and it's a buzz.

1388
02:00:04,560 --> 02:00:09,560
So it's like, you don't get that anywhere else,

1389
02:00:09,800 --> 02:00:11,160
I don't think.

1390
02:00:11,160 --> 02:00:13,680
So I'm much more into doing that.

1391
02:00:13,680 --> 02:00:17,280
So I'm really happy to be able to go back and do that.

1392
02:00:17,280 --> 02:00:21,640
And I'm all about enjoying it again

1393
02:00:21,640 --> 02:00:23,200
and enjoying the work again.

1394
02:00:26,120 --> 02:00:28,320
It's the best way to do it, it's theater.

1395
02:00:29,800 --> 02:00:33,840
And I don't know if people enjoy going to the theater or not.

1396
02:00:33,840 --> 02:00:36,160
I think there's nothing worse than bad theater.

1397
02:00:36,160 --> 02:00:38,280
That's just fucking terrible.

1398
02:00:38,280 --> 02:00:41,440
But leave at the interval, if you don't like it, just leave.

1399
02:00:41,440 --> 02:00:46,440
I shouldn't say that, but it's good.

1400
02:00:47,440 --> 02:00:50,840
But when theater's good and when it's done well

1401
02:00:50,840 --> 02:00:55,840
and it's a good play and it should be an electric night,

1402
02:00:55,920 --> 02:00:58,760
and you should laugh your ass off,

1403
02:00:58,760 --> 02:01:01,920
you should experience horror

1404
02:01:01,920 --> 02:01:05,640
and have all of those emotions can be involved in it.

1405
02:01:05,640 --> 02:01:07,880
And I just love that.

1406
02:01:07,880 --> 02:01:12,880
And I love making an audience happy

1407
02:01:13,800 --> 02:01:16,360
in the immediacy of it, you know what I mean?

1408
02:01:17,240 --> 02:01:21,880
I do, because when I did stunts, it was always live shows,

1409
02:01:21,880 --> 02:01:24,240
but I was on the, when I say I was on,

1410
02:01:24,240 --> 02:01:26,160
I was a glorified extra playing a firefighter

1411
02:01:26,160 --> 02:01:27,440
in the World Trade Center movie.

1412
02:01:27,440 --> 02:01:30,480
So I got to see Oliver Stone, massive production,

1413
02:01:30,480 --> 02:01:34,280
and then did a couple of, another extra one

1414
02:01:34,280 --> 02:01:35,960
on a television show across from Jordan.

1415
02:01:35,960 --> 02:01:38,880
And then I was in a History Channel pirate TV show

1416
02:01:39,760 --> 02:01:43,480
where I had, again, an awful, awful acting performance

1417
02:01:43,480 --> 02:01:44,760
wearing a Brian May wig.

1418
02:01:44,760 --> 02:01:47,360
I don't know if they gave perms in the pirate days,

1419
02:01:47,360 --> 02:01:48,840
but this wig certainly had it.

1420
02:01:48,840 --> 02:01:49,680
This guy did.

1421
02:01:49,680 --> 02:01:50,760
This guy definitely had it.

1422
02:01:50,760 --> 02:01:52,040
It was the sea air.

1423
02:01:54,040 --> 02:01:55,600
I feel a shanty coming along.

1424
02:01:56,560 --> 02:01:59,200
But it was interesting because again, like you said,

1425
02:01:59,200 --> 02:02:01,320
I got to see, all right, do a take, cut,

1426
02:02:01,320 --> 02:02:03,360
and then in the Oliver Stone one,

1427
02:02:03,360 --> 02:02:06,960
I mean just hours and hours and hours of waiting around,

1428
02:02:06,960 --> 02:02:09,440
then you shoot a scene and then reset,

1429
02:02:09,440 --> 02:02:11,800
and then the actors finally come on and they do a line

1430
02:02:11,800 --> 02:02:13,120
and they go back to their trailer and you're like,

1431
02:02:13,120 --> 02:02:16,880
oh my God, versus for example, that pirate show,

1432
02:02:16,880 --> 02:02:20,800
an hour and a half of nonstop acting, singing,

1433
02:02:20,800 --> 02:02:23,520
stunts, swings, sword fights.

1434
02:02:23,520 --> 02:02:25,440
If you had the right combination,

1435
02:02:25,440 --> 02:02:26,960
because of the cast change like every day,

1436
02:02:26,960 --> 02:02:28,760
so the right people on stage,

1437
02:02:28,760 --> 02:02:30,560
and then the right audience off, you know,

1438
02:02:30,560 --> 02:02:33,040
actually in the audience, it was amazing.

1439
02:02:33,040 --> 02:02:34,720
And you would absolutely get that high

1440
02:02:34,720 --> 02:02:36,240
because if you nailed the sword fights

1441
02:02:36,240 --> 02:02:37,400
and everyone oohed and ahed

1442
02:02:37,400 --> 02:02:40,320
and the high falls and the gun battles,

1443
02:02:40,320 --> 02:02:42,080
you know, it was a complete connection

1444
02:02:42,080 --> 02:02:43,880
inside that building.

1445
02:02:43,880 --> 02:02:45,120
And I didn't ever, you know,

1446
02:02:45,120 --> 02:02:47,040
even though I got a short exposure to it

1447
02:02:47,040 --> 02:02:49,440
when it came to being on set,

1448
02:02:49,440 --> 02:02:51,960
you just do it and then you reset again.

1449
02:02:51,960 --> 02:02:53,880
So I can, I know it's a stunt version

1450
02:02:53,880 --> 02:02:55,960
of what you're talking about, but I can relate.

1451
02:02:55,960 --> 02:02:56,800
Yeah, and then, you know,

1452
02:02:56,800 --> 02:02:58,280
if you're making a movie or whatever,

1453
02:02:58,280 --> 02:03:00,480
and then it's like years later,

1454
02:03:00,480 --> 02:03:03,000
people tend to go, oh, it's a great movie or whatever.

1455
02:03:03,000 --> 02:03:05,120
And that can go on and on for forever

1456
02:03:05,120 --> 02:03:06,520
and ever and ever, and it's great,

1457
02:03:06,520 --> 02:03:08,480
because, you know, you'll get in a cab

1458
02:03:08,480 --> 02:03:10,600
and a cab driver or like a movie that, you know,

1459
02:03:10,600 --> 02:03:13,400
did or whatever, that's cool, it's great.

1460
02:03:13,400 --> 02:03:16,840
But if you're talking about like personally having fun,

1461
02:03:16,840 --> 02:03:20,400
doing your job, you can't beat the theater,

1462
02:03:20,400 --> 02:03:22,120
can't beat it.

1463
02:03:22,120 --> 02:03:23,720
And I guess I'm just looking for a thrill,

1464
02:03:23,720 --> 02:03:27,520
what with that and, you know, volunteering.

1465
02:03:27,520 --> 02:03:32,520
So, I mean, you know, there's a pattern emerging here

1466
02:03:32,520 --> 02:03:34,320
with that. Absolutely.

1467
02:03:34,320 --> 02:03:35,240
Well, one more thing,

1468
02:03:35,240 --> 02:03:37,760
because we talked about your grandfather's role

1469
02:03:37,760 --> 02:03:39,280
in James Bond.

1470
02:03:39,280 --> 02:03:40,320
What have you heard?

1471
02:03:40,320 --> 02:03:42,560
Who do you think is gonna be the next James Bond?

1472
02:03:42,560 --> 02:03:44,480
And have you considered trying to be part

1473
02:03:44,480 --> 02:03:46,920
of that production so you can do this full circle

1474
02:03:46,920 --> 02:03:48,640
from two generations ago?

1475
02:03:48,640 --> 02:03:52,040
Well, that ship is, the Bond ship has sailed

1476
02:03:52,040 --> 02:03:53,960
for this 51 year old.

1477
02:03:53,960 --> 02:03:58,960
But I think, I actually like, you know,

1478
02:03:58,960 --> 02:04:01,960
so I was doing this play and Michael Ward was in it.

1479
02:04:01,960 --> 02:04:03,040
You know who Michael Ward is?

1480
02:04:03,040 --> 02:04:05,400
Michael Ward was in Top Boy.

1481
02:04:05,400 --> 02:04:06,640
You might know him from Top Boy.

1482
02:04:06,640 --> 02:04:08,200
I don't know if you saw that, but a lot of people.

1483
02:04:08,200 --> 02:04:09,440
Don't think I did actually.

1484
02:04:09,440 --> 02:04:10,560
I'll write his name down there.

1485
02:04:10,560 --> 02:04:15,560
So Michael is a brilliant young black actor from London.

1486
02:04:18,200 --> 02:04:20,400
And he's a great actor.

1487
02:04:20,400 --> 02:04:21,920
Did you see Empire of Light?

1488
02:04:21,920 --> 02:04:25,400
He was in that, that's Sam Mendes movie with Olivia Colman.

1489
02:04:25,400 --> 02:04:29,240
He's a terrific actor and I was joking with him.

1490
02:04:29,240 --> 02:04:31,000
I was like Michael Ward for Bond,

1491
02:04:31,000 --> 02:04:33,280
but I kind of think he'd be really good.

1492
02:04:33,280 --> 02:04:36,680
And I think they could use a black James Bond as well.

1493
02:04:37,560 --> 02:04:39,000
Yeah, I mean, absolutely.

1494
02:04:39,000 --> 02:04:42,120
It's funny when they start trying to get female James Bonds

1495
02:04:42,120 --> 02:04:44,320
in there, it's like, okay, it is James Bond.

1496
02:04:44,320 --> 02:04:45,720
We've got to draw a line somewhere.

1497
02:04:45,720 --> 02:04:47,880
But I've been knowing British, I mean,

1498
02:04:47,880 --> 02:04:49,000
we're all colors and creeds.

1499
02:04:49,000 --> 02:04:51,240
So he could be any ethnicity whatsoever.

1500
02:04:51,240 --> 02:04:52,360
He's a terrific actor.

1501
02:04:52,360 --> 02:04:53,200
He's a terrific actor.

1502
02:04:53,200 --> 02:04:55,680
And you know, a really good guy too.

1503
02:04:55,680 --> 02:04:58,480
So he'd be my, my vote would go for Michael.

1504
02:04:59,560 --> 02:05:00,400
Brilliant.

1505
02:05:00,400 --> 02:05:01,240
I'm looking at him now.

1506
02:05:01,240 --> 02:05:04,120
I think Top Boy rings a bell, but I'm not sure.

1507
02:05:04,120 --> 02:05:05,440
But what about the M-roll?

1508
02:05:05,440 --> 02:05:06,800
He doesn't have to be young.

1509
02:05:06,800 --> 02:05:08,160
So what if you end up on that?

1510
02:05:08,160 --> 02:05:09,000
I got my eye on that.

1511
02:05:09,000 --> 02:05:11,520
Cause like there's no age limit with that one.

1512
02:05:11,520 --> 02:05:14,040
So I've got all the time in the world.

1513
02:05:14,040 --> 02:05:14,880
There we go.

1514
02:05:14,880 --> 02:05:15,720
I know.

1515
02:05:18,040 --> 02:05:20,280
All right, well then quick closing questions.

1516
02:05:20,280 --> 02:05:21,120
The very first question,

1517
02:05:21,120 --> 02:05:23,640
is there a book that you love to recommend?

1518
02:05:23,640 --> 02:05:24,840
All books, plural.

1519
02:05:24,840 --> 02:05:26,920
It can be related to our discussion today

1520
02:05:26,920 --> 02:05:28,240
or completely unrelated.

1521
02:05:29,280 --> 02:05:30,600
Oh my gosh.

1522
02:05:32,000 --> 02:05:34,200
I don't have a go-to recommender.

1523
02:05:35,840 --> 02:05:39,800
I read a lot of thrillers.

1524
02:05:39,800 --> 02:05:43,320
I can recommend the Harry Bosch series

1525
02:05:43,320 --> 02:05:47,720
for people who haven't read those.

1526
02:05:47,720 --> 02:05:52,720
The Bosch series by Michael Connolly are really good.

1527
02:05:54,000 --> 02:05:57,760
I've read 19 of them in the last two years.

1528
02:05:57,760 --> 02:05:58,600
Wow.

1529
02:06:01,600 --> 02:06:06,600
If you really like how detective work actually works

1530
02:06:06,680 --> 02:06:08,080
and the sort of,

1531
02:06:10,120 --> 02:06:12,760
the legwork and the monotony of it,

1532
02:06:12,760 --> 02:06:16,240
monotony is the wrong word because the books are great.

1533
02:06:16,240 --> 02:06:17,080
But the first one,

1534
02:06:17,080 --> 02:06:19,400
and they started writing in the eighties.

1535
02:06:19,400 --> 02:06:22,600
So it goes from pre-internet all the way through.

1536
02:06:22,600 --> 02:06:25,640
And Los Angeles is a real character in those books.

1537
02:06:27,440 --> 02:06:29,040
So I love those books.

1538
02:06:30,240 --> 02:06:32,960
He's a Vietnam veteran who was a tunnel rat.

1539
02:06:32,960 --> 02:06:36,720
And then he ends up on the homicide bureau

1540
02:06:36,720 --> 02:06:39,040
in the robbery homicide division.

1541
02:06:39,040 --> 02:06:41,080
And they're just great.

1542
02:06:42,720 --> 02:06:44,520
I did read recently,

1543
02:06:44,520 --> 02:06:49,520
I'm gonna give a plug here, Sean Rogers.

1544
02:06:49,520 --> 02:06:53,280
Sean Buck Rogers, he's a former Green Beret.

1545
02:06:53,280 --> 02:06:58,280
And he's got a YouTube channel, he's getting really popular.

1546
02:06:58,760 --> 02:07:02,520
But he just wrote his second book about,

1547
02:07:02,520 --> 02:07:04,520
his first book was sort of his story

1548
02:07:04,520 --> 02:07:09,520
from a traumatic childhood to becoming a Green Beret,

1549
02:07:10,280 --> 02:07:12,480
to then becoming a police officer.

1550
02:07:12,480 --> 02:07:15,800
And then he wrote a book, his book's just come out,

1551
02:07:15,800 --> 02:07:17,160
called Better Broken.

1552
02:07:17,160 --> 02:07:20,640
And he asked me to take a look at it before it came out.

1553
02:07:20,640 --> 02:07:22,760
And I did, and it was amazing.

1554
02:07:22,760 --> 02:07:27,760
And it's about how to use the so-called problems

1555
02:07:28,800 --> 02:07:32,640
in your life and if people with traumatic backgrounds,

1556
02:07:32,640 --> 02:07:36,160
how that's actually can be an advantage to you in life.

1557
02:07:36,160 --> 02:07:39,120
But he actually gives practical advice

1558
02:07:39,120 --> 02:07:39,960
on how to do that.

1559
02:07:42,520 --> 02:07:45,920
It's not just a theory and conjecture, it's a great book.

1560
02:07:46,720 --> 02:07:48,360
Beautiful, yeah, I've talked about that a lot recently

1561
02:07:48,360 --> 02:07:50,320
because I follow him, I recognize that name.

1562
02:07:50,320 --> 02:07:51,520
So I already follow him on Instagram,

1563
02:07:51,520 --> 02:07:52,360
that someone need to reach out,

1564
02:07:52,360 --> 02:07:54,480
especially if he's a police officer as well.

1565
02:07:54,480 --> 02:07:56,040
But that's what's missing

1566
02:07:56,040 --> 02:07:58,240
with the mental health conversation.

1567
02:07:58,240 --> 02:07:59,960
He's another Jiu-Jitsu guy as well.

1568
02:07:59,960 --> 02:08:01,520
Oh, this is even better.

1569
02:08:01,520 --> 02:08:03,640
But yeah, that traumatic road aside,

1570
02:08:03,640 --> 02:08:05,000
that gives you hope then.

1571
02:08:05,000 --> 02:08:07,720
It's not like, oh, well, I'm gonna be a police officer

1572
02:08:07,720 --> 02:08:09,360
and I guess I'd be able to deal with it

1573
02:08:09,360 --> 02:08:10,640
if I take these pills or whatever.

1574
02:08:10,640 --> 02:08:13,360
Like no, when you go through and come out the other end,

1575
02:08:13,360 --> 02:08:15,960
that becomes resilience, that becomes a superpower.

1576
02:08:15,960 --> 02:08:18,680
And now you're also a beacon of light for other people

1577
02:08:18,680 --> 02:08:21,320
that are going through it and they see that you've navigated.

1578
02:08:21,320 --> 02:08:23,160
It doesn't mean that every day is flawless,

1579
02:08:23,160 --> 02:08:24,560
like you're still gonna have your struggles,

1580
02:08:24,560 --> 02:08:27,320
but it always reminds me of that.

1581
02:08:27,320 --> 02:08:29,160
I forget the term they use, but the Japanese,

1582
02:08:29,160 --> 02:08:32,400
when they fix the broken pottery with the gold glue,

1583
02:08:32,400 --> 02:08:33,240
that's what it is.

1584
02:08:33,240 --> 02:08:35,280
And I think we need to talk about that.

1585
02:08:35,280 --> 02:08:38,720
My friend Ben Timberlake, who'd written another terrific book

1586
02:08:38,720 --> 02:08:42,720
I'll recommend called High Risk, and that's he was a,

1587
02:08:43,680 --> 02:08:48,680
he was in 2-1 SAS, Reserve SAS Regiment,

1588
02:08:49,240 --> 02:08:54,240
and then had a lot of problems with drugs and stuff

1589
02:08:55,680 --> 02:08:59,640
and came out the other side, has this amazing story.

1590
02:08:59,640 --> 02:09:03,680
His book is terrific, but it's a little bit more

1591
02:09:03,680 --> 02:09:06,360
than just a book, but it's terrific,

1592
02:09:06,360 --> 02:09:10,960
but it looks at a lot of neuroscience and brain chemistry.

1593
02:09:10,960 --> 02:09:12,920
And the reason the book is so great is because it's telling

1594
02:09:12,920 --> 02:09:14,720
you like what is going on with your brain

1595
02:09:14,720 --> 02:09:16,800
while all these things are happening.

1596
02:09:16,800 --> 02:09:18,880
But he's in that book, he says,

1597
02:09:18,880 --> 02:09:23,880
a lot of people talk about post-traumatic stress,

1598
02:09:24,080 --> 02:09:26,160
post-traumatic stress disorder,

1599
02:09:26,160 --> 02:09:29,040
but they don't really talk about post-traumatic growth,

1600
02:09:29,040 --> 02:09:34,040
which is what you're saying, and it's a huge thing,

1601
02:09:34,320 --> 02:09:38,240
and a very, very powerful tool if you can work through

1602
02:09:38,240 --> 02:09:40,360
all that stuff and get to the other side.

1603
02:09:41,600 --> 02:09:42,440
Absolutely.

1604
02:09:42,440 --> 02:09:45,520
Yeah, those are two books everyone can check out.

1605
02:09:45,520 --> 02:09:47,000
Brilliant, well, thank you for that.

1606
02:09:47,000 --> 02:09:49,000
Same kind of question, what about films

1607
02:09:49,000 --> 02:09:51,200
and or documentaries that you love?

1608
02:09:52,160 --> 02:09:54,720
I'm a documentary machine, so.

1609
02:09:54,720 --> 02:09:55,800
I don't know.

1610
02:09:58,080 --> 02:10:03,080
Gosh, films, oh, man, I don't know,

1611
02:10:03,080 --> 02:10:07,120
like that's just too much, because I just watch a lot.

1612
02:10:09,880 --> 02:10:12,640
I send my kid to school, I go training,

1613
02:10:13,520 --> 02:10:17,480
if I'm not working, I go training, I come home,

1614
02:10:17,480 --> 02:10:19,480
I make dinner, I watch stuff.

1615
02:10:19,480 --> 02:10:23,680
So I get through a whole, I've got a bunch of things.

1616
02:10:24,680 --> 02:10:28,200
I just rewatched True Detective last week,

1617
02:10:28,200 --> 02:10:31,480
the original one, I think it's,

1618
02:10:31,480 --> 02:10:34,200
with Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey,

1619
02:10:34,200 --> 02:10:36,720
if you haven't seen that, you need to check that out,

1620
02:10:36,720 --> 02:10:41,240
because it's one of the best detective dramas ever made.

1621
02:10:43,640 --> 02:10:44,680
So there's that.

1622
02:10:46,200 --> 02:10:49,200
Sicario is one of my favorite films,

1623
02:10:49,200 --> 02:10:50,400
because I'm such a boy.

1624
02:10:53,200 --> 02:10:54,520
I just rewatched that the other day,

1625
02:10:54,520 --> 02:10:57,560
because Josh was on the show twice now,

1626
02:10:57,560 --> 02:10:59,960
but the first time we became friends,

1627
02:10:59,960 --> 02:11:01,440
they ended up writing the foreword to my book,

1628
02:11:01,440 --> 02:11:02,760
which was mind blowing.

1629
02:11:02,760 --> 02:11:06,160
But yeah, I mean, that again, super humble,

1630
02:11:06,160 --> 02:11:08,520
it's unknown to most people that he volunteers

1631
02:11:08,520 --> 02:11:10,080
as a wildland firefighter for,

1632
02:11:10,080 --> 02:11:12,120
I think it was either two or three seasons.

1633
02:11:12,120 --> 02:11:14,200
But again, like yourself, he's not front and center

1634
02:11:14,200 --> 02:11:16,640
with all the paparazzi and stuff, he just,

1635
02:11:16,640 --> 02:11:18,720
he's an artist, and if you look at his writing,

1636
02:11:18,720 --> 02:11:22,160
the fact that he even got it between the covers of my book

1637
02:11:22,160 --> 02:11:24,440
is mind blowing, and I always joke as well,

1638
02:11:24,440 --> 02:11:27,080
he read it on the audio book, and I'm like, yeah,

1639
02:11:27,080 --> 02:11:29,320
so Josh Brolin, one of the best voices in Hollywood,

1640
02:11:29,320 --> 02:11:30,880
narrates the foreword for my book,

1641
02:11:30,880 --> 02:11:33,760
and then my fucking squeaky ass reads the West.

1642
02:11:34,840 --> 02:11:37,560
That's the brotherhood there, brotherhood in action.

1643
02:11:37,560 --> 02:11:39,080
Yeah, exactly that, exactly.

1644
02:11:39,080 --> 02:11:42,920
I mean, I was no one on his radar,

1645
02:11:42,920 --> 02:11:44,160
and he put his name to that.

1646
02:11:44,160 --> 02:11:46,960
But yeah, but I mean, back to Sicario though.

1647
02:11:46,960 --> 02:11:50,280
I like that film even more now, you've told me that.

1648
02:11:52,640 --> 02:11:53,760
So what about documentaries?

1649
02:11:53,760 --> 02:11:55,280
You say you watch a lot of them,

1650
02:11:55,280 --> 02:11:57,880
any ones that really resonated with you?

1651
02:11:57,880 --> 02:12:00,360
See, I always freeze when I get asked questions like this,

1652
02:12:00,360 --> 02:12:02,160
I'm sorry, I think it's like 20,

1653
02:12:02,160 --> 02:12:05,240
and as soon as we're not on the recording anymore.

1654
02:12:06,680 --> 02:12:08,680
Oh my gosh, I mean, I went through it,

1655
02:12:08,680 --> 02:12:13,080
so I actually have written a screenplay,

1656
02:12:13,080 --> 02:12:16,080
I've actually adapted that book,

1657
02:12:16,080 --> 02:12:17,400
High Risk I was talking about,

1658
02:12:17,400 --> 02:12:19,360
I've adapted it for the screen.

1659
02:12:19,360 --> 02:12:21,480
And when I was doing that,

1660
02:12:21,480 --> 02:12:26,480
I watched a lot of combat documentaries,

1661
02:12:27,480 --> 02:12:30,000
and I sort of went into a rabbit hole with those

1662
02:12:30,000 --> 02:12:31,840
for years and years and years actually.

1663
02:12:34,840 --> 02:12:36,360
So I know a lot of good ones,

1664
02:12:39,560 --> 02:12:41,000
if that's your jam,

1665
02:12:41,000 --> 02:12:46,000
but I think Brotherhood Life and the FDNY

1666
02:12:48,000 --> 02:12:53,000
is one of my favorites documentaries for obvious reasons.

1667
02:12:53,000 --> 02:12:56,000
I don't know, I know you can see it on YouTube,

1668
02:12:57,720 --> 02:13:01,920
but there are a lot of really good FDNY documentaries

1669
02:13:01,920 --> 02:13:03,360
that I just love.

1670
02:13:03,360 --> 02:13:08,360
And that one deals with a lot of old school guys,

1671
02:13:10,360 --> 02:13:11,760
I get confused with them,

1672
02:13:11,760 --> 02:13:13,400
because I think there's a,

1673
02:13:15,400 --> 02:13:17,800
some of the guys from these documentaries

1674
02:13:17,800 --> 02:13:19,600
cross-pollinating to other ones,

1675
02:13:19,600 --> 02:13:22,640
there's a one about Rescue 2, I think, that's really good,

1676
02:13:22,640 --> 02:13:25,160
and some of the guys from that are in Brotherhood,

1677
02:13:25,160 --> 02:13:30,160
but it's really about the workings of a New York firehouse

1678
02:13:30,160 --> 02:13:35,160
and what it means to the guys to work there

1679
02:13:35,160 --> 02:13:36,400
and be there for each other,

1680
02:13:37,960 --> 02:13:40,560
and the kind of work that they do,

1681
02:13:40,560 --> 02:13:42,240
and the lifestyle,

1682
02:13:42,240 --> 02:13:47,240
and the filmmaker really lives with them,

1683
02:13:47,760 --> 02:13:52,120
and you get a really good look at those guys

1684
02:13:52,120 --> 02:13:57,120
who are gonna come and help out,

1685
02:13:57,120 --> 02:14:00,680
who are gonna come and help you

1686
02:14:00,680 --> 02:14:03,080
when you're having the worst day of your life.

1687
02:14:04,240 --> 02:14:06,520
Yeah, I've actually got that on DVD, funny enough,

1688
02:14:06,520 --> 02:14:08,720
and it's fantastic.

1689
02:14:08,720 --> 02:14:10,520
Well, speaking of great people,

1690
02:14:10,520 --> 02:14:12,520
is there a person that you'd recommend to come

1691
02:14:12,520 --> 02:14:14,360
on this podcast as a guest

1692
02:14:14,360 --> 02:14:16,480
to speak to the first responders, military,

1693
02:14:16,480 --> 02:14:19,360
and associate your professions with the world?

1694
02:14:19,360 --> 02:14:20,400
Ben Timberlake.

1695
02:14:22,240 --> 02:14:24,480
Brilliant, if you can help me make that happen,

1696
02:14:24,480 --> 02:14:26,440
we will do it, I would love to have him on.

1697
02:14:26,440 --> 02:14:27,840
I can.

1698
02:14:27,840 --> 02:14:28,680
Fantastic.

1699
02:14:28,680 --> 02:14:32,720
He's a really good dude, but yeah.

1700
02:14:32,720 --> 02:14:33,560
He's beautiful.

1701
02:14:33,560 --> 02:14:37,360
He'd be a genuinely interesting guest,

1702
02:14:37,360 --> 02:14:38,840
as opposed to this guy.

1703
02:14:39,840 --> 02:14:42,200
No, it's his thing, it's the humility again.

1704
02:14:42,200 --> 02:14:44,080
It's been an amazing conversation.

1705
02:14:44,080 --> 02:14:45,680
But one more area before it,

1706
02:14:45,680 --> 02:14:48,000
make sure everyone knows where to find you online.

1707
02:14:48,000 --> 02:14:49,640
What do you do to decompress?

1708
02:14:51,360 --> 02:14:52,200
Jiu-jitsu.

1709
02:14:52,200 --> 02:14:57,200
And jiu-jitsu, I play video games quite a lot.

1710
02:14:57,400 --> 02:14:58,480
I'm a bit of a nerd.

1711
02:15:00,160 --> 02:15:01,600
Especially during the pandemic,

1712
02:15:01,600 --> 02:15:04,640
I went deep into a war zone with a group of friends,

1713
02:15:04,640 --> 02:15:06,440
because we just put our headsets on

1714
02:15:06,440 --> 02:15:08,120
and then we're hanging out with each other,

1715
02:15:08,120 --> 02:15:10,120
even though we're shut in our own houses.

1716
02:15:11,400 --> 02:15:13,720
I play video games, I read books,

1717
02:15:13,720 --> 02:15:17,120
I do jiu-jitsu, and I watch TV.

1718
02:15:18,520 --> 02:15:19,360
Brilliant.

1719
02:15:19,360 --> 02:15:22,440
Well, very last thing then, if people wanna follow you,

1720
02:15:22,440 --> 02:15:23,960
reach out to you, whatever it is,

1721
02:15:23,960 --> 02:15:26,040
where are the best places to find you online?

1722
02:15:26,040 --> 02:15:28,200
You can find me on Instagram only.

1723
02:15:28,200 --> 02:15:30,080
That's the only jam I am.

1724
02:15:30,080 --> 02:15:33,720
I deleted my Twitter years ago,

1725
02:15:33,720 --> 02:15:38,720
after it was making me angry 15 times a day.

1726
02:15:38,280 --> 02:15:39,880
So I'm like, no more.

1727
02:15:40,880 --> 02:15:43,080
So you can search me.

1728
02:15:43,080 --> 02:15:45,240
There's one with a blue tick and that's me.

1729
02:15:45,240 --> 02:15:48,240
But yeah, but don't message me,

1730
02:15:48,240 --> 02:15:49,720
because I won't see it.

1731
02:15:52,920 --> 02:15:54,960
Well, Johnny, I wanna say thank you so much.

1732
02:15:54,960 --> 02:15:56,920
It's been an amazing conversation.

1733
02:15:56,920 --> 02:15:59,080
Like I said, I truly am humbled

1734
02:15:59,080 --> 02:16:00,440
that you chose to come on,

1735
02:16:00,440 --> 02:16:03,920
having done simply one before six years ago.

1736
02:16:03,920 --> 02:16:06,080
So, but it's so important,

1737
02:16:06,080 --> 02:16:07,880
as I mentioned over and over again,

1738
02:16:07,880 --> 02:16:11,120
it's these human stories behind these kind of

1739
02:16:11,120 --> 02:16:15,280
and I use facade in a positive way, but the part that we see,

1740
02:16:15,280 --> 02:16:16,840
the front facing part of people,

1741
02:16:16,840 --> 02:16:18,720
whether it's a soldier or a police officer

1742
02:16:18,720 --> 02:16:20,520
or an actor or a singer,

1743
02:16:20,520 --> 02:16:22,280
but to hear the kind of human side

1744
02:16:22,280 --> 02:16:24,760
and the highs and the lows that we all experience,

1745
02:16:24,760 --> 02:16:26,320
I think is so important.

1746
02:16:26,320 --> 02:16:28,520
And the fact that you volunteered in the profession,

1747
02:16:28,520 --> 02:16:31,880
the love of us listening adore, adds even more value.

1748
02:16:31,880 --> 02:16:33,520
So I wanna thank you so, so much

1749
02:16:33,520 --> 02:16:35,360
for being so generous with your time today.

1750
02:16:35,360 --> 02:16:37,320
Thank you very much for including me.

1751
02:16:37,320 --> 02:16:38,680
I'm so happy to be here.

1752
02:16:38,680 --> 02:16:41,200
I'm so happy to be here to be able to be here

1753
02:16:41,200 --> 02:16:43,680
and to be able to be here to be able to be here

1754
02:16:43,680 --> 02:16:45,560
and to be able to be here to be here today.

1755
02:16:45,560 --> 02:16:47,680
So thank you so much for your time today.

1756
02:16:47,680 --> 02:16:50,200
Thank you very much for including me in your conversation,

1757
02:16:50,200 --> 02:16:54,120
and I'm only starting out on my journey

1758
02:16:54,120 --> 02:16:59,120
as I hope to one day be considered more of a first responder.

1759
02:16:59,880 --> 02:17:04,400
And that is truly, I know is gonna be the highlight

1760
02:17:04,400 --> 02:17:05,720
of my life.

1761
02:17:05,720 --> 02:17:07,840
So thanks for having me.

1762
02:17:07,840 --> 02:17:08,680
Thank you.