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But like it's crazy how many people get like seriously hurt and you really can't like you can't let it get you

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Not that many guys go visit people in the hospital when they hurt like when you're racing and I have one teammate

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I mean, I'm in this neck place now, but I had a teammate that broke his C1 C2

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Like like should have been paralyzed. You know, he was in a halo drilled into his skull

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Shoulder supports the whole thing and like I remember going to the hospital and I was the only guy on my team

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They did to go visit him afterwards and it was kind of like it was terrifying all aspects is brought to you by aspect

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Thanks to our business Daddy aspect. Abby for making the all aspects podcast possible now. Let's get to the show

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Okay, what's up guys good morning. We have Will fish corn here with us on the pod today will is a

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X pro cyclist

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To use our first tour to France

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A rider which to me I mean for a podcast of this this like magnitude

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I'm surprised we haven't had a tour to France guy yet to be fair right I mean come on and

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You are also a entrepreneur you you and your wife live here in Crested butte

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You do a fair amount of backcountry skiing you're teaching your kids about backcountry skiing

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I think you guys have a really cool story and we're really excited to have you guys on

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Well, you are of course not here

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And then for for people who are not watching this

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Well, you're in a neck brace right now. Do you want to run us through that real quick?

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You know short long I highly recommend if you were ever thinking about a 12 foot reverse swan dive

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Have water underneath you for the landing zone not a hardwood floor in a first ball table

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Yeah, it was that

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They say ladders are dangerous and ladders are dangerous kids

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If you're thinking of carrying like an 80 pound mattress up a ladder with one hand hopping rung to rung

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Just don't do it. Just say no get some help. But yeah, I found stuff this thing two weeks ago

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landed on my back 12 feet down

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Cracked the C6 C7 T1 T2 T3 vertebrae all

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So I got pretty good thing but unbelievably lucky, you know, I can still email and drive

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I'm where you know, there's a good chance otherwise. I would not have been able to do so

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Yeah, the outcomes could have been could have been burly. So

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That's risk. You should not take ladders one hand

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But now I feel you'll also lucky to be on here today, man. Well, damn dude, I'm glad you're okay. That's that's super scary. Yeah

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Well, let's just let's just jump right in here, man

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Can I just like ask you right off the bat because I've always been curious about this?

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You know, you you watch like the unchained or the Tour de France show on Netflix or whatever

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There's all the guys in the Peloton

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And they're like within, you know, centimeters of each other

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Are you guys all talking shit to each other or you just like kind of chatting about your day? What's going on in there?

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There's a lot of chatting about your day. There's a lot of like you're either suffering so hard

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There's no conversation or you're actually kind of on chill mode where like the brakes up the road everything's stable

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You know, and you're you're having good conversation

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Yeah, I might not be like like super fluid. They might be some pauses. You might be breathing a lot of normal

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But but no cycling is a wonderfully social sport. Actually, it's it's kind of fun in that way

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And even you know, there are days when you're racing, you know full gas six hours, you know, there's not a word said

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I don't get the fuck out of way. Now we're going

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yakking your radio to your team

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But there are other days where it is. It's lovely and you go it's essentially like going for a big long ride with a bunch of buddies

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Yeah, until the end and then it's game on just a casual 200 kilometer bike ride with the boys to be in the draft

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I mean, you're just sucking a wheel all day long. It's it's easy

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No, it's it's kind of funny actually now. I constantly, you know, after I retired it's been 15 years or so now

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You know, I did not ride a bunch for a couple of years

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Started business had kids. I mean there was like four or five years where I rode four or five times

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But I got stupid to trail running and and that was definitely like how it burned a lot of a lot of that

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Pense up energy that needs to get out every morning

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And you get back on a bike and even when you're like relatively fit doing something else

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Yeah, I go out and I'd ride and be like, I have no idea how I used to be able to do that

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Like I could actually go fast. That was good. I'm not anymore now. It's like, you know old ladies and kids are blasting by me

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But it's

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So well

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I gotta ask you a little bit about your

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Your your

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Dr. Jekyll and mr. Hyde nature because I think anyone who knows you is like wow will is a remarkably positive

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upbeat person just puts out great energy into the world

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but then there's this like alter ego the shadow side that we all have and

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I got a little glimpse of that when we were out for a ski and you were like, oh, yeah, that's so wild

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Yeah, I put that guy in a ditch in it. It wasn't even a race. It was just like a

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local race

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Was it doing something in

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It was a local race and he was doing something that didn't mesh with the etiquette of what should have been happening and the

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Violating the unwritten rules and you took on the enforcer role and I was asking you there was a ditch available

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I turned to her and I was like he could have like wrecked this guy like broken collarbone or worse

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And she's like, oh, yeah, it will totally psycho when you got him on a bike

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It's just like what the guy you know now doesn't exist. So how do you hold those two things like?

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upstanding citizen

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Loving father and and husband and then enforcer when you're on the bike

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You know, it's kind of like a persistence lab avalanche right most of the time

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You don't want to do anything mean just kind of hiding our feet down there

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You'd be a nice so letting people ski the pal

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But then every once in a while you you got to get it done

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And and whatever it is you just got to do it and if it messes someone up it messes someone up

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But you know, hopefully it doesn't too badly

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Did you just like run him off the road or you know, were you like like what's at it?

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He's kind of like to give a little pump

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You just kind of like make make room go away

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And if someone's coming and they're shooting for room and that room is gone

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You know their options are kind of limited typically they choose the option of not running into someone from behind and you know

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thinking they might be able to ride it out in the grass

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But in this case opportunity ditch was there and served its purpose

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That checks out

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Wow world

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Well, I mean kind of on that that note of running into ditches on a bike

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You know like the races that you did are these

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You know these tours of the whole countries, right? So you guys are doing, you know, two to three weeks

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Riding every day, right? I mean like how first I like how I mean

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How do you guys kind of go through that managing your risk? I mean, there's so much risk there

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There's physical risk of crashing

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Fatigue like that kind of stuff also like health risk of just like dehydration and like are you eating enough?

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Like how are you getting enough calories going for like what you're burning?

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Like can you kind of just walk us through what what's like generally talked about?

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You know like when you guys are on the bus or like in your pre pre-race meeting or that kind of stuff

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You know, I think I think big picture there is so much risk in a lot of sports

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And when you start out when you're young you're getting going you kind of just have to pretend it's not there

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You know, I think there's a huge element among

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And speaking specifically to cyclists, but I have to assume it's it's similar other sports where you know, it is

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It's your dream as a kid

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So you're you know, you're young you bounce off stuff you get hurt you get you get better quick

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You know as a kid you don't necessarily have a great ability to judge risk or make make critical choices

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You just you go with it, especially when it's something like you know for this for me when I was like 16 years

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I started racing bikes had pretty good

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Success pretty quickly and it was like, okay, this is what I'm gonna do

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And almost anything that's in the way of that you have to tune out whether it's you know, honestly, it's becoming like quite selfish

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You know handful years later. I looked back was like wow

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I was you know, still a very nice person I tried to be but that was pretty selfish like every athlete for those years

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Because you have to that's pour everything into it

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And then anything that is that is in your way that often has a risk element to it

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You just play off-stretch. You'll put your head in the sand and pretend it's not there

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And honestly through my career through the ten plus years that I was racing professionally. I think one of the most telling things is

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Is when someone gets hurt like seriously hurt

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you know in the middle of a race like you see it happen and

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You barely pause like you watch a friend

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You know go flying off the side of the road and smash into a tree and you're like they're definitely going on ambulance

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You pause for like two seconds and then you're back on it and you're going

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You know, I think in the time that I was racing there were three or four races that were stopped

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And that's one of those things where you're like whoa, but like it's crazy how many people get like seriously hurt

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And you really can't like you can't let it get you

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Not that many guys go visit people in the hospital when they hurt like when you're racing and I have one teammate

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I mean, I'm in this neck place now, but I had a teammate that broke his C1 C2

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Like like should have been paralyzed. You know, he was in a halo drilled into a skull

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Shoulder supports the whole thing and like I remember going to the hospital and I was the only guy on my team

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They did to go visit him afterwards

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And I was kind of like it was terrifying because it's accepting they're like, oh, yeah, this is what could happen

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And then as you get older you start understanding like okay, this is part of it

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And how do you how do you try not to be an idiot?

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You're like I can attack on the descent. It's like no I can I can go fast on the descent

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But like maybe that's not the spot to like like try to stretch out a couple seconds

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And that's you know, I had a moment

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I got it was springtime or racing in Belgium. It's nasty. I mean you talk about getting sick

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There's like cowshipped flying up in your face

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You're drinking it all day long because it's just raining and it's so gross and and you're constantly getting sick

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And it's like that element is it's uncontrollable, you know, but in the stand of like three weeks

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I think I broke three bikes in these races and there was one in Torfland

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I broke two bikes in the race, you know, these just like

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Unbelievably huge catastrophic pile ups that like you could do nothing about

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Like you might be trying to control your risk

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But like when 50 people crash in front of you and you're going 35 miles an hour and it's wet like you just crash

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You just you go center punch it and just go like

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Fingers crossed in the air

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I actually had a pretty solid issue for a while after that like seeing our sports site

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If you worked with our team and I was kind of in the like is this worth it anymore like this is dumb

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And

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Interestingly, it was a couple of years before I ended up stopping racing. I was dying. It was 26 27 that spring

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You guys 28 I did the door finance 29 I was on the team and I got sick right before it and and

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When I got I mean I got super sick

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You know, I was a reserve for the team didn't do it and you know

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We were just chilling out in Spain and that's that chunk of July

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And kind of had to like realization of

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Ha this was this was a really cool chapter

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But for a whole whole number of reasons ready to start the next one

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And and one element of that was definitely like getting hurt

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I feel like I managed to skate through my racing career and never in one of these neck braces

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that's you know, putting away the a laundry did to me the other day and

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And that was pretty cool. You know, I broke I broke little bones ribs arms, you know stuff that heals quick

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But I had teammates that got you know, it's just like wicked beat down and I realized, huh?

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That didn't happen and I still love riding my bike. What if I do something else? I can now I can still go out and love

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around my bike. It's pretty cool

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Yeah, I definitely I feel that like the

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Well, it's funny you said like when you're 26, I feel like 25 is when you realize your mortal like that's like the age

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Yeah, man, and and and what you're saying like I'm like it when I was 25

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I had kind of the realization of like dude, I really want to be able to ski for the rest of my life

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Yeah, because like this is this thing that I love and I was starting to kind of feel like I was pushing it on the edge of like

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I don't know if if the tricks were doing if you know, like if I'm gonna be built for that, you know, like

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Going forward and so I totally resonate with what I'm saying there. Yeah

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I need to jump in and provide some context for the audience here

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So people don't know this about either of you but Dave competed in the X games for many years

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And park and pipe and do it never never compete in the X games, but thanks. Oh really?

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Oh my bad. All right pro skier and like, you know, 100 foot gap jumps stuff like that and like, you know, facing your mortality on a very

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regular basis and will like you are so close like you

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You know

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You'll never cough this up

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But with a little slew thing I found out that you know, you missed winning a stage in the tour by a wheel it came in second

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And so like that's like the pinnacle of anyone's career

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How did you navigate that transition and say, you know what that chapter is over?

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Here's what I'm gonna do for this next chapter. It was a big big decision and honestly like I feel like my cycling career was bookended by two really hard

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really hard but

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wholeheartedly like enthusiastically grab and go with them decisions

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But that both were kind of risky. I mean the first was when I was

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16, 16 years old

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I was on a very academic track. I was at prep school up in New England

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You know, it's like channel to the IVs everyone's you know, everyone's very boring in there in New York now making a bunch of money

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Investment banking and stuff and I was like, huh, this bike is really cool. And

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You know, it's we had a cycling team there schoolboys racing and my coach was awesome

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But like super super cool and inspiring, you know, mentor figure

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He'd race professionally lived in the town of Jason to where the school was and he would take us out on rides and expo's and come and ride with us

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I was like, huh? Like amazing and he really encouraged me to chase cycling

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But that quickly led to the point where it was like I was not gonna be able to stay on this academic track

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I was not gonna be able to stay at the school. I got invited to move to the training center if you live in the training center down in Colorado Springs

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My mom took the took the letter the invitation letter and red lines the 37 grammatical and spelling errors in this one page invitation letter

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She's like, um, honey, I don't know if this is a good idea

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Don't know if this is a good idea. I was like, oh, come on. This is awesome. You know, but they're bikers

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Yeah, they're not supposed to be smart. Come on mom. Like we're burning brain cells all day long out there

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And uh, but it was a huge thing. It was like, okay. I'm stepping out of a very traditional path

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Um, with a very traditional, you know, likely outcome to like like hopefully this friggin works

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Um, and Dave, you know, I mean, it's like it's really challenging for kids

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That are on that or at that level in sport where you have to make the decision of like, do I go all in and sacrifice

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Almost everything else for it. Um

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You know, is that the right decision and you know with a dream and with you know, blinders on you just go for it

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You know, but it was it was a hugely risky thing. I meant to for go college

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You know, I I didn't go to college. I never never got a higher education. Um, I've been traveling around the world around my bike pretty fast

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And I am eternally grateful for that education. It was like the coolest one I could ever have

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But that was that conversation with my parents. It was a big one. I was like, yeah, I'm not I've got a pro contract in my hand for next year

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You know, I'm also applying to college at the same time

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Are you guys okay with me making this choice? Like not

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You know school will be there later, hopefully and they're like, yeah school will be there later and looking back

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I can't believe that they were as supportive as they were. I mean, it was so cool. Um

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I would struggle with that with my kids right now. I mean my my 10 year old

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I don't want to go to college because you didn't and if I go to college, I gotta leave mom and uh

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I'm like

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Solid both, you know, I love mom too. She's cool and you know, I did not go to college and life worked out

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but college is cool, um

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So that was a huge decision and and you know

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Looking back so risky, you know in terms of life trajectory and I just got lucky it worked

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Um, you know, so many of my teammates as 18 19 year olds

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You know within two years after that we're no longer racing and that transition out of sport when you've given it everything at that point in life

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And it's not your choice is really hard. Like yeah really hard

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Dude, it's your whole it's your whole identity. Like you don't even know it's like you're like it's almost like a part of you died

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It's crazy

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And I watched that happen to some of these guys

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I mean it was just like tragic and then the number that fell off the wagon and like

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In ways you would never want to and it's fun now like actually seeing some of them like

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You know 20 years on you're like reconnecting like oh, whoa like like you found it eventually, but it was it was hard for five years

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Um and a lot of guys have that same thing at the conclusion of their career. So like when I stopped I was 29

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Um, my wife and I

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Girlfriend at the time we were living in Spain

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um, most of what I was doing was over in Europe and we had that moment like

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It's just kind of realization of like let's do the next thing

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Um and I ended up having a super soft transition which was great and that my team

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Was like hey work for us on the on the marketing side the management side

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Um, so I ended up for a year working for the team

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Kind of feeling out like would this be an interesting direction?

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Our team director was a good friend of mine

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That culture the support network of the team that you're familiar with community. Oh interesting. Wow. That's so comfortable

259
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And it was great. I mean I essentially got a year to one make some unbelievable connections in the industry

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I worked with all of our sponsors. I got to put together a hospitality program

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So, you know, you give a million bucks the team from your company you come hang out the tour de france get the flyer on a helicopter and wash

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Stuff

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I mean super fun

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But I also realized okay, this is not it's not where I want to go long term

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And at the time my wife and I we were we were spinning on some business ideas and

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And we had fallen in love with

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Like the small markets of your

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Food wine community or like it's our foundation

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And there are all these like epic little markets over there

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I mean every street corner has one and there's one in Girona, Spain

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Or we live called the rego that if you were in Girona like riding a bike around you see this little corner thing

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And you've been to our store in Boulder that we started you know couple years afterwards you're like that was that was it

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Um, and we just took this huge flyer. I mean this is the next like big

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You know idiotic like risky decision we took was like we're gonna step out of like what's pretty comfortable and pretty awesome

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And we're gonna try to start a retail food business

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As two young people that have never worked in retail food

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Um, and never really done much other than like ride bikes and my life, you know, she was a graphic designer

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like we're just we're gonna go for it and

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And so like compounded we ended up starting it in a building we took on a lease with another couple

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So we had two couples running businesses in a building and my dad he was a business consultant was like, huh?

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You know all the stuff that we've like done over the years like I kind of thought you you were a little smarter than that

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like

283
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But but go for it kids have fun

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He's like cool man. First it was not going to college and cycling now you're like

285
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He's like are you just gonna choose the hard route and everything you do like what it's like a potential 4% margin, huh?

286
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That does not seem like a good business idea. I was like, but come on

287
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Then and again, we got lucky. It was awesome. We started this business called cured in Boulder

288
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Um, you know specialty food cheese was the heartbeat, you know, but it was charcuterie wine

289
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olive oil or like all the all the stuff we loved to even drink and and having around the house

290
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Um, and we 10 12 years in we ended up getting super lucky

291
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It had developed into a pretty real little business at the time with a great team

292
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You know 30 folks working for us and catering and gifting and you know all the stuff around food

293
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but covet prompted so the the next ripcord which was uh

294
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It was just too much, you know, we have kids they're 8 and 10 now

295
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and

296
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You know last year christmas or two years ago christmas eve my wife's like, huh?

297
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This is the first christmas eve. We've all been home as a family

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Like this is pretty cool

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You know this this business was so all-consuming. Um, that we know we needed we knew we needed to change

300
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Um, and we found a great buyer for it, you know great at the time and uh, but it got us out

301
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It gave us the flexibility to just full on a ripcord life where we sold our business our cars our house

302
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Everything put like, you know, most of the stuff we got rid of, you know 10 by 20 foot storage container

303
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Put what was left in there and we took a year and traveled and did a full group of the world with kids home school on them

304
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And just like bucket list trips things that we could never have done, you know previously with with time

305
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So it was pretty cool. I mean landed here in cb and trying to figure out what's next now

306
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Yeah, it was travel was amazing

307
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:15,080
Well, I gotta I gotta admit something to you man. I'm totally embarrassed by this because we've you know, we've like hung out we've talked

308
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I had no idea that you guys started cured like

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That was that was our baby our first baby no one has ever said that to me like you never said you guys were like

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Yeah, we started this like cheese shop blah blah like

311
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I was just like

312
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Looking it up and I was like, oh my god, dude. I've been to cure this place is great. Wait, it's like a hero

313
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Dude, I think I got did you guys have like a brunch pizza or something there?

314
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We had we had so much fun with food. I mean it was it was pretty epic over the years

315
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I think I went to like a brunch there and I was like dude that place rocks. So anyway, oh, that's embarrassing

316
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We miss it. So awesome

317
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well, you're more than welcome to

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Uh, reprise the cured experience for your friends and neighbors here in Crested B

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We're happy to come over and and give you that opportunity to experience that fun all over again

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We will make it happen here at home

321
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,080
No, we actually so we are

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We still have a handful of personal belongings scattered around the world and one of the coolest things that I need to go

323
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Snagged back at some point. We have a uh when we sold the shop

324
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,720
We had a couple of these like beautiful italian handmade mechanical, uh, prosciutto slicers

325
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,480
Oh, yeah, and one is actually sitting at a friend's house in Boulder right now and it's

326
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,720
Put the leg on there and crank this thing. It's this perfect paper thin prosciutto comes off

327
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,280
So it'll it'll be living on the county here soon. We'll have we'll let you know

328
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:37,640
That's that's like some nice hardware too. Those things ain't cheap. That's like no, it's pretty cool. Yeah

329
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One of my favorite things is going over to will's house and he cranks up his fancy espresso machine

330
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And I know it's going to be the best coffee of my week and I'm just like, oh, I can't wait surprise me

331
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Makes it happen

332
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Yeah

333
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:57,240
Uh, damn dude. Well, you just went through like everything just like knocked it all out

334
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Oh

335
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,480
That was that was wild

336
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:06,840
But let me uh, let me loop back to something else. Uh, you you mentioned when you're talking about

337
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watching your buddies

338
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Like crash and that kind of thing and how you had to deal with

339
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,840
Um, kind of like some mental stuff

340
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Like post either you crashing or seeing your buddies crash and like I think anyone who's

341
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And I'm jeff. I'm sure you can relate to this too like anyone who's dealt with

342
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,120
Where like, you know

343
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:32,600
You're doing something dangerous, right? Like and it's part of I think your programming is a human, right?

344
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Like you you don't have bandwidth for that. So you just like turn it off

345
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Like that's just nothing you think about and then it's almost more shocking

346
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than when one of your friends or colleagues or competitors like has a big blowout because it's like

347
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,040
all of a sudden you're faced with the reality of this

348
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:56,680
Of the you know the consequences of the potential consequences. Yeah, and

349
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Like I wonder

350
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:00,760
for you

351
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,360
You know racing at that high of a level

352
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:07,720
Do you think it was harder when you like like which was harder like when you personally had a crash

353
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Or like when you'd see things that were out of your control happen around you because I know it was out of control for sure

354
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,640
Yeah, no, it's you know, if you make the mistake. It's like, yeah, you fucked up you

355
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:22,520
You went off the road. You pushed it too hard. It was like theoretically there was an element of control that you had

356
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:28,600
Um, and you and you made a bad judgment. Um, yeah, I think the thing that was hardest for me in cycling and and

357
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,640
Probably quickly most folks is is just a complete lack of control

358
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um, and it is it's I mean, it's

359
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It's like

360
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It's like it is that we're like you're cruising along and you're going

361
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:46,120
30 40 50 60 miles an hour down the hill and like if the dude ahead of you hits this little crack on the road and goes down

362
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,000
Like there was no control. I mean, that's just shit luck

363
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:57,080
Um, and that happens and that's you know, most of the really bad accidents. It's it's that

364
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:02,600
Um, you know one of these ones in Flanders where like, you know 50 of us went down, you know bike just destroyed

365
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,600
You know these belgian cement roads have these little gaps between the

366
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,800
The uh, you know where the the compression gaps in the concrete, you know over the years they spread

367
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,120
You know they fill with water because it's raining and nasty. Now you drop a tire down into this thing

368
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:24,120
Bike just stops flips goes, you know and all of a sudden, you know, all these dudes are on the ground and there was nothing they could do

369
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,080
Um, and I think that's what that adapted at the hardest part

370
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,160
And and coming to grips with that and I know at a certain point as you said you

371
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,640
You have that like moment where mortality comes in and self-preservation instinct comes up and you go, huh?

372
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Like is that

373
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:38,840
Is that worth it?

374
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:39,880
Um

375
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,880
And you try to do what you can to control it and you try to work through it and you try to like put your head back in the sand

376
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,680
Um, and some guys are better that than others and and also you figure out what you can do to control it

377
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:54,520
I mean if you look at controlling and uncontrollables like you look at like Lance Armstrong, for example, who?

378
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,080
Interesting dude amazing like unbelievable successful inspiring all this stuff

379
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:04,440
But like he I think the most impressive thing he did was managed to make it through his seven tours

380
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,160
Without like a horrible crash

381
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,040
Um, and they managed that by literally like putting their team on the front

382
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:15,960
And just like he would never be more than 10 days back. Um, he'd always be right up there and you know

383
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,440
You go into a finish and you get swamped but like you have to have a

384
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,240
A number of things aligned to make that possible

385
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,800
Um, you know the furdler you are back in the group the more people ahead of you could theoretically have an accident

386
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,800
You know you control that in a way you can um pretty impressive

387
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:37,000
There's that crazy video where he I don't know what year this was but he goes off the road and just rides like

388
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:44,520
Just over the grassy field. Yeah for like 100 meters on a freaking road bike and then just hop back on and like keeps

389
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,520
Back on the other side goes

390
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:52,440
Yeah, he didn't even jump off. He just rides it like no that was that was his one that could have been bad and worked out

391
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,640
Right, so he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like

392
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,040
Right where you're like, you know, that's that's crazy

393
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,960
Dude, I can't ride a road bike on my dirt road like

394
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,480
Gravel bikes you can get one of those things get rid of the road bikes now

395
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,040
I don't even have one anymore

396
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:14,280
No, we really got rid of road bikes and just just rolled gravel and mountain bikes especially here in crested view like

397
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,840
You know mountain biking is so good

398
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:18,520
totally

399
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:25,320
Well, let's made me think of uh when we're talking about risk and randomness and what's within our control and what's out of our control

400
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,240
Maybe think there's this really fascinating cognitive bias that's been

401
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,880
Super well documented and that is when good things happen to me

402
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,960
I ascribe them to my brilliance my hard work

403
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,880
Of course because i'm in control of my destiny. It's for your day. I think it happens to me

404
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,360
That was some serious bad luck

405
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,360
I

406
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:49,800
Always

407
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,800
And so much of it is you know, Dave

408
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,280
Always laughs because I always say like hey, we're going to put ourselves in a position to get lucky

409
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,600
we're going to work really hard and

410
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,440
Leverage our knowledge and experience and set ourselves up for success

411
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,560
but ultimately there's going to be some luck and randomness involved and you know, particularly

412
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,920
When we're dealing in the natural world, there's a lot of chaotic events and it's kind of a bell-shaped curve

413
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:14,440
of

414
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,640
Random possible outcomes and we can influence it

415
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:23,880
but that feeling of control when we're in the back country and like oh, we slayed this big line

416
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,320
We have our finger on the pulse. We knew exactly what was going on

417
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:32,840
You know, that's that cognitive bias kick it in where i'm like fluffing my own feathers being like oh, we're so clever

418
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,800
We're riding steep stuff on a considerable day with pwl

419
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:41,000
We've outsmarted the problem and it's like well, we can do that for a while and eventually our luck runs out

420
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:45,880
And then uh, you know if something bad happens to her like, I don't know what happened. Oh my god

421
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,680
You know, we've been doing it like this for so long. I can't believe this just happened. That was some bad luck. You're like

422
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:57,400
Yeah, biggest challenges for the avalanche world, right? It's like you don't have negative feedback until it's real negative

423
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:03,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's like a catastrophic negative. It's like the hardest thing is you're just like

424
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:05,640
okay

425
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,480
With this one particular risk fact like I don't know risk category

426
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:15,160
It's not like other things. We're like, okay, like you can have a little crash here and you learn from that or like you like

427
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,960
Oh, you blow a tire and you learn from that like it's like

428
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,240
Everything's fine and then maybe potentially

429
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:26,600
Everyone hope you're joined the pod so far

430
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,760
I just wanted to take a quick break to tell you about one of the most unique features of aspect app

431
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:37,160
Which is the forecast update the forecast update tool allows you to input real-time feedback about snow conditions and stability

432
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,880
Into the app as you're touring. So say we're out touring in this area

433
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,400
It's a moderate day, but all of a sudden we experience signs of instability

434
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,480
We come up to the corner and we click this little button right here

435
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:56,120
Brings up the forecast update tool and we can go in and let's say we got whomps and we got

436
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,520
Shooting cracks we click done

437
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:05,880
Your map is going to be updated to considerable avidanger and we'll now have the updated high and low risk areas painted onto the map

438
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,320
In that forecast zone this works even offline

439
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,880
Which is super badass if you want to try out the forecast update tool for yourself

440
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,560
Head on over to the app store and download aspect abbey for free on ios

441
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,200
Okay back to the show

442
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,920
Yeah, great. No, so we got we got two kids

443
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,400
We have an eight year old and ten year old and it's fun because living here, you know snow is snow's life

444
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,480
It's why we came here. We love playing and stuff, you know, honestly like the whole time I was raised in likes

445
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:38,200
I couldn't ski there's dangerous activities clause and almost every, you know, pressure athletes contract

446
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,840
You know, it's you essentially don't do anything fun

447
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,200
You will get in trouble and not get paid if you get hurt doing something that is fun

448
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,360
Some of the reasons why I was like I'm kind of excited when I stopped racing

449
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,840
I mean the first thing I did was like coral. Guess what we're getting for Christmas

450
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,560
We're getting some touring gear and we were living, you know

451
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:58,360
45 minutes from the photos of the Pyrenees. So we were like like instantly like cool. Let's go out and play

452
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,040
You know and her parents who were both, um, you know big in the alpine

453
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,720
mountaineering and dining world for a bunch of years way back in the day, you know, they were like

454
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,840
Well, perfect. We know we're getting you for Christmas. You have your level on course

455
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:15,000
Which was awesome. I mean it's looking backwards. There's the first course we took and it was right when we were getting into it

456
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,000
I feel so lucky for that

457
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,840
You know, but I was just like stoked to be able to get back on skis. I grew up skiing

458
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,400
You know until I got really serious about bike racing. I was ski racing, you know, just fun

459
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,720
You know, it's definitely not any good

460
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:34,040
But but having fun up in New England and was just so stoked to get back out and be able to play and now we've got two kids

461
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,760
Eight and ten were here, you know last winter were you know, Coral and I every day there at school

462
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:45,480
We're speaking on skiing and they're like, hey, can we do this? My ten-year-old especially he's got like that suffer mindset

463
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:51,000
You know eight year olds kind of like, huh, I could also have a hot chocolate and go ski to lifts and like it's pretty fun

464
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,000
Ten year olds like yeah, let's let's go out there and I love working really hard

465
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,920
But thinking about how you communicate risk and like distill it

466
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,720
In the back country to kids

467
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:07,240
Which I think is a whole other deal and honestly last year was super cool one of our ten-year-olds good buddies

468
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:13,560
His mom was like kids a little bit of an idiot and he risk is like he doesn't process it

469
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,120
She actually got this little group of kiddos a little one-day like as he course

470
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,280
With the buddy of theirs who's a guy like coolest thing ever, you know, it's five little kids went out and

471
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,840
I'm done pits found a found a backpack hiding that down there and you know learned how to do all the stuff

472
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:33,320
And it was fun in that like Holman. I our ten-year-old we'd already been starting down that road and he took a ton out of this day

473
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:40,600
And but it is really challenging trying to be like, okay, dude like you're you're ten you're getting to where you can actually get out there physically

474
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,640
You know, how can you do this for your whole life?

475
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:45,960
um, and it's

476
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,840
it's how do you how do you be calculated in your choices and

477
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,320
And you know, do you want to push it hard? We got this killer ski area just down the road

478
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:59,480
But if you want to go out and ski some power and get good workout and have a good time in nature like this is the way to do it

479
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,600
But let's be really clear with our choices of you know this yes this no and

480
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:11,320
Actually Jeff it was fun last year like you know, I showed him the app and our kiddos we keep pretty far away from technology

481
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,400
Everybody's like, okay. I get this like, you know, it's it's very intuitive

482
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:16,840
um

483
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:18,680
And that's that's awesome

484
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:25,720
And it's it's a it is a great, you know, assistance in the teaching process of you know, ideally setting up some little kids for success for a long time

485
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,480
You know and not uh, not taking risks that are that are unjustified

486
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,280
in an environment that

487
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,280
It can be terminal

488
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,920
How did you and coral uh, what was your

489
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,480
journey like for

490
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,440
getting backcountry savvy and uh, learning about

491
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,560
Snow and avalanches. What was that process like?

492
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:51,320
Oh great question. So like we you know instantly I stopped racing when we get touring together. We're getting out playing and

493
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:58,120
And realize mountains are big, you know, and she grew up her parents were both ice climbers out climbers

494
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:04,280
mountain guides and and both of them has they've they both pulled people out of snow um that weren't breathing and

495
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,240
And they were awesome in that just like fundamental like hey guys

496
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,800
We love what you're doing like it was our life

497
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,120
They live in mexico now where it's just warm and sunny because they got cold a lot of times over the years

498
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,280
um, but they're like

499
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,920
Like take it seriously learn about it

500
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:22,600
You know

501
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,680
And really think about what you're doing. Um, and I think that was that was an incredible foundation

502
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,960
You know the adi course they gave us for christmas the first year we were playing

503
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,120
um that set us in

504
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,240
You know essentially did what abby one does scares you like okay like this is really serious

505
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:41,400
It's like we're not confused as you know that we did a rescue. Oh, yeah, it's like whoa, uh,

506
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,440
like like 20 degree powder does that work?

507
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,840
I mean that's I think that's the goal right it's it's makes you really think about what you do and like understand the

508
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:52,360
implications are legit

509
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,360
Um, and then after that we ended up, you know one just studying a bunch and reading

510
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,640
I mean there's so much great literature out there and the internet opens it up even further

511
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,400
We spent a bunch of time in the back country and every year we could we were

512
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:08,200
You know there were years where where work prevented, you know more than 20 30 40 days

513
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,720
But I mean a couple years ago. We probably got 100 days of touring which is

514
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,360
Awesome

515
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:19,480
Yeah, right after we sold the business and we would drop off our kids in school every day

516
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:24,520
You know and those five days a week we'd go ski and you know get four or five hours in and and then on the weekend

517
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,120
We take the kids. Um, I mean it was like it was the best thing so good

518
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:34,120
But a lot of time out there and a lot of time the two of us as partners

519
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,400
Um, trying to really check each other, you know, I think everyone we all know that

520
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,920
You know, maybe the ladies make better choices than we do

521
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:46,920
Um, and and it's awesome to have that balance and I think the other thing for us that this killer is that as a couple

522
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:51,720
You know, you drop your kids at school and you go ski like you definitely want to pick up your kids at school

523
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:56,280
Um, there's there's no question there and that's like the worst-case scenario is

524
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,760
I'm imagining that situation

525
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,840
Um, so we ended up over the years as well doing a number of additional courses

526
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,800
You know, we did formal one two

527
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,200
Rescue the things that are there, but then also just hiring some guides when we were in cool places

528
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,560
To take us out and like yeah, let's ski but like when you

529
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,600
When you also essentially do this is a little fresher

530
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,400
Um, which I think was awesome because in the field time, especially once you kind of have the background of

531
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,640
of you know the

532
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,400
You want to read? Yeah put it to work in the field and to be able to see that

533
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:28,840
um

534
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,600
And be able to see that in different places as well

535
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,760
It's like you ski in one place all the time and get super comfy there

536
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:37,640
But like you know, we're up in Jackson one year and had had this like awesome experience like epic tours

537
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,280
But like with a lot of stopping and going

538
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,040
Why like show us why we're making these these decisions

539
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,520
Jeff last year at one point you because before course I was doing you were like, hey when you go to when you go

540
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,760
Do this just constantly keep asking why and it's so resonated because it's like yeah

541
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,000
You want to understand it? I don't want to just go do it. I want to I want to know that I can go do it myself as well

542
00:37:57,720 --> 00:37:59,720
And maybe I won't push it quite as far

543
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,560
because I like doing that out a little more buffer but uh

544
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,440
But I understand it which is huge

545
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:07,800
yeah

546
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,800
Do you guys have a sense of how?

547
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:18,680
You managed risk in the past to now has evolved. I think we self-preservation instinct as you age continues to rise

548
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:20,280
um

549
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:25,960
You still want to go get your yas yas out every once in a while you you realize that that's pushing you a little harder than you should

550
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:27,160
um

551
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,040
But I mean technology now and I mean obviously the app is a huge thing

552
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:35,640
um, but but over the years, you know, we just really you plan a little bit better before you go out

553
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:37,720
um, you make some like

554
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:42,280
Just clear yes knows and kind of like people talk about like guides, you know setting a run list for the day

555
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,480
It's just like no matter what we're not going to go over there. Like that's just a no-go zone

556
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,760
You know, we were skiing on berth at a bunch of we're in the front range

557
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:52,680
And the current creek zone was like a favorite, you know, like russia would be really fun today

558
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,360
You know, there's this awesome one in most

559
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:55,880
It's fake they'd be super fun

560
00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:00,120
But like that's a no and you watch a couple of you know idiots going up there and skiing at certain days and you're like

561
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,920
Wow, that was fun for them. That's terrifying

562
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:10,680
You know, I just figured a little thing remote over here. That's that was on like a rollover. They got lucky

563
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,200
um, but but yeah being more critical about setting

564
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,040
Yeah, setting boundaries. I think is one of the things it's it's changed the most for us

565
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,960
Um, and then also just going out on certain days and not having any ambition to do

566
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,040
You know to do something big but just go yeah, let's just go

567
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:29,480
Get a bunch of vert and a bunch of powder. It's really fun

568
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:35,400
Yeah, there's a zone Jeff you took us last year that you know conies which is not not far from town here

569
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,880
It's you can access on skis. You don't need sled you get in there

570
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,720
You know, there's there are areas in it where there's potential risk, but there's one little zone

571
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:47,480
That's the pretty darn safe and like I mean, I bet we did 20 days in that zone last year because there was some sketchy days here

572
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,200
Um, and you're like as long as we so long. Yeah a lot

573
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,560
But you're like we've skied this, you know three days a week

574
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,400
You know, we get you get a really good feel for it and you're like, we'll just stick there because

575
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:01,880
Because that works and it's still a blast

576
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:07,800
Um and and understanding that we're like it's not objective driven. It's not mission based. It's like let's just go have fun

577
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,440
Get tired come home and be happy

578
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:15,480
Yeah, hey will I want to correct you on one thing the first time we went skiing?

579
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,040
I didn't take you guys you guys took me

580
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,000
You set us up for success. No, so the first time we ski with Jeff

581
00:40:23,720 --> 00:40:26,360
Would you see Jeff put you in a position to get lucky?

582
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,000
He put us in a position to get lucky that was the goal

583
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:36,040
No, it was awesome. We met at seesaw last year, you know, whatever just just over a year ago

584
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,760
Um and and we came back home and a couple days later. He's like, dude, there's there's this early season storm

585
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,760
They hit you want to go ski? Let's go test the app

586
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,960
You know, I've just been just a mind of the rod and

587
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,800
And we got some we both downloaded we got on the phones. We had to trailhead

588
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,960
You know, you pretty quickly out of sale your offline mode

589
00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,880
And and we started out in this area and he's like, okay, you guys you take the reins

590
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,800
Did that freak you out because you probably thought oh we're going with a

591
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,520
IFMGA guide we're gonna get guided this will be great and then it's like no no no

592
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,000
You guys are gonna guide me with the app. Good luck

593
00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:12,040
Well, cool thing. I mean, I think you look at it and you're just like you're like, this is the zone where we're gonna go play

594
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,600
Show us you'll show me where to go safely

595
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:20,920
And and the app made it very just intuitive right and you look at it. You're like, cool. This is this is go. This is no go

596
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,080
Um that go zone looks really fun. Sweet. Let's go play over there

597
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,320
Um and even as you're like on the slopes certain areas were like, you're like, okay

598
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,240
Do we need to throw a kick turn in here like head back the other direction?

599
00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:36,200
Are we starting to get there? It's like, oh, yeah, cool. There's red. Boom

600
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:38,920
It was really

601
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:43,240
Yeah, it was inspiring that way and I mean, you know, but we got home, you know, coiling afterwards

602
00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:46,520
We've been contemplating investing in the company and and helping it

603
00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:51,160
Helping the mission be realized and and we had home the next day was like, yeah, we have you a part of this

604
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,960
This is this is it's too good to make happen

605
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,840
people people need it

606
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,920
We were so we were sold pretty quick. It's it's cool hearing kind of the

607
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:07,160
uh, you know, I've heard you guys investor story for us with Davy several times, but

608
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:16,040
You know kind of having this conversation leading into it with a little more insight into how much you are playing in the back country with your kids

609
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:22,920
And like how much like it really does help put that whole picture together like man, you know, when you're just talking a second ago

610
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:24,040
I was like, man

611
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,240
It's must be a really hard thing because you don't want to discourage

612
00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:31,880
Kids from being super stoked, right? Like like they have that

613
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,840
Just don't make a little go around

614
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:40,760
Happiness. Yeah, like and you want to inspire that and like and and and honestly like feed off of it, right? You're like, fuck. Yeah

615
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,280
It's nothing ever. How do you also then balance?

616
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:49,800
Like hey, I want you to be stoked and I want you to have that unlimited mindset, but like

617
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,760
What we're doing right now is deadly

618
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,560
You know and then like so the fact that then

619
00:42:55,560 --> 00:43:01,880
This tool comes along that you guys see like it makes so much more sense of that mindset you guys were in like, well, okay

620
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,560
Wow, this is maybe the next step or kind of the future of where we're headed with this whole thing

621
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,680
You know, I think if you look at it from a kid's perspective, too

622
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:13,080
You like you show them Gaia and and I I have like all the apps

623
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:17,560
I love just digging out on all that stuff and show them the you know Gaia on X

624
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:21,480
You know count topo and you're digging in you're like, you know, there's so much information available there

625
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,600
Which is fantastic. It's part of root planning. It's part, you know, all of that

626
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,080
But you show that to a 10 year old and they're kind of like, uh

627
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:33,400
Whatever. Yeah, I understand that sure. But if you you show them something that's just like

628
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,320
Yay, nay, like and this is why there's this magic number

629
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,080
Um

630
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:43,720
They they get that and that's that's what's so cool about it and and that also is one of the things

631
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:48,040
I mean, it's like the Steve Jobs story of taking an iPhone to like Africa and give it to like a three-year-old there

632
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,720
That's never seen tech and instantly they're like swiping and figure out how it works just intuitively

633
00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:55,640
Like that was his like aha moment where it's like, oh, this is going to be big

634
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:57,400
good choice

635
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,320
Um, you know, it's kind of the same thing. It's how do you take a bunch of information and distill it?

636
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,800
Um and make it easy to use

637
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,120
And that that I think for us and especially when you start looking at kids that are using it like

638
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,600
Like yeah, I can get my kid Gaia what?

639
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,520
He's not going to get anything out of that other than like, well, this looks really cool. Look at all these colors

640
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,280
And like like this is beautiful. Um, but you can give them something like that like avi

641
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,080
And and they can they could go and drive it

642
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,280
Um and and make it work, which is just huge

643
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:29,960
Um, you think you're gonna have your oldest son put the skin track in and and have him uh lead you on a tour

644
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:32,200
Dude heck. Yeah

645
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,840
Now he's uh, he's little beast as you're recovering

646
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:41,080
This from the neck injury might be like, all right out in front. Here you go. You're breaking trail, dude

647
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,400
That's your training

648
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,960
Yep, get back slowly build up to where I can chase him down

649
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,720
No, they're already at that point where you're like, oh man, they're gonna be fitted and we aren't fast

650
00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:52,120
And we are at all this real soon. It's terrifying

651
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:58,200
brutal so well, I think I think you come from a background of

652
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:05,720
Of folks investing. I know your your sister's in the startup world and I think you're your family as well

653
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:06,920
um

654
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,760
How do you approach risk when you're you're looking at as an angel investor?

655
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,120
as you're looking at opportunities because uh,

656
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,720
If there if there's no risk, there's there's very

657
00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:19,720
You know, there's very little it's not worth it

658
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,000
Exactly. So you got to balance that

659
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,880
Uh, how do you approach that when you're investing in companies?

660
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:31,720
Well, there's this app out there that you just put all the company info into and they tell you a yes or no and

661
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,000
I mean wouldn't that be cool? There's the idea

662
00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:37,400
apply this

663
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:43,240
No, uh, you know, it's it's a tricky one because obviously yeah without risk, you know, are you gonna outperform?

664
00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:48,760
No, you got to you got to take some risk. Um, and I think for companies like this, you know, it's

665
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:54,760
A lot of it hangs on the the head of the demand behind it the woman behind at the people that are making it happen

666
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,840
You know, you can look at all the numbers that have been conjured up out of thin air and

667
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:04,920
Is this you know, could this work? Is this going to be the biggest thing ever in the world? Yeah, it sure is on this piece of paper, but

668
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:10,840
What's reality? Um, so you try to make a judgment call. It's just like playing outside, right?

669
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:16,440
You try to go, you know, I here's all the information that I have, you know, you're checking read your, you know

670
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,240
Ideally you do your due diligence and you find, you know, people that have worked with them over the years

671
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:27,240
You look at potential competitors even in a space like this where it's, you know, aspect of you is kind of an outlier

672
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,520
Yeah, they're they're competitors. What's what's the what's the moat, right?

673
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:35,640
Do kind of all the classic risk analysis things and viability is a business and

674
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:38,760
And then you just kind of go hot as this feel, right?

675
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,560
And hopefully this feel, you know

676
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,240
Hopefully the feel is right. I mean every once in a while, it's not

677
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,080
No, you know, fortunately, it's not like it's not and then the avalanche takes you out

678
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:54,040
It's just like, oh, you lost that money. So you got to make that call of how much money you're comfortable putting at risk

679
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:57,640
Um, you know, is it enough to be impactful for the company?

680
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,640
Um, but also is it a number that if if this one were to just disappear?

681
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:03,480
You're gonna be okay

682
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,480
And that's that's kind of our calculus for it

683
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,840
But it's especially for for really early stage stuff. It's

684
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,120
There's a lot of gut to it. Um

685
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:18,920
Which you don't want to apply that in a back country in quite the same way. Um, but you know, we don't have a great tool for this yet

686
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:27,800
Describe as our intuition or subconscious processing. How did you develop that?

687
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,160
subconscious that skill set that

688
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,760
Autonomic processing if you will

689
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,600
How did you develop that especially transitioning from cycling?

690
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,800
Were you angel investing while you were still cycling?

691
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:47,240
So I was I was super fortunate and my father had been in the vc world for a long time. Um

692
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:49,160
And

693
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:52,600
You know from early on I mean when when I made the decision not to go to college

694
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,520
It was like, okay, how am I going to continue my personal education and go in a way that after

695
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,480
Cycling ideally, you know, there's there's something there where the brain hasn't completely at your feet and burned away

696
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:06,920
Um over the years, so I was able to see you know, see and be a part of a number of decisions

697
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:13,000
Do that chapter and watch the choices that he made and understood those choices and what he was doing

698
00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:17,640
And and be involved with some of those as well, which was was great. Um

699
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,960
And then see the ones that didn't work out. Um, I think that's a really important part of it

700
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:28,360
You're no one's successful 100 of the time. Um, yeah, you know, ideally no one's successful 50 percent of the time

701
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:32,760
And if you look at it from an investor perspective, you know, if you're if you're lucky 30 percent of the time

702
00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:38,360
You're actually doing really well and ideally those 30, you know, wipe away the pain from the other 70

703
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:39,640
um

704
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:45,160
So I got to see that over the years be a part of that over the years and have that sort of practical education, which was great

705
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,160
But but I don't think anybody ever hones it. You know, you hone it when you're done

706
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,000
What are you guys going in the background there? Well

707
00:48:53,000 --> 00:49:01,000
Oh, apologies. My my wife just just running through here. Just trying to pick up all the pieces of my life that I can't help with right now. It's brutal. Wow

708
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,120
Yeah, it's it's a lot. You know this spring. I actually broke both of my hands

709
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,640
I've been trying to maximize my health insurance dollars this year

710
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:14,840
I've gone like 10 years without a claim and and this year is an opportunity to really crush anthem and

711
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,320
Take all the money we paid them over the last decade back

712
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,080
But but coral has picked up a whole lot as I've been uh

713
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:26,360
You know not quite at full capacity for a number of months now. Yeah, yeah, dude

714
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:31,320
I feel like every time there was like multiple times where I've run into you and you have like a new cast on or something

715
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:32,680
And I was just like

716
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:34,680
Will like what the heck?

717
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,160
Oh, yeah, no two hands at the same time is not to be advised

718
00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:43,880
I uh, if you're gonna break hands do them one let that one heal then do the next and space it out a little bit

719
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:49,240
All right, I went and I actually did that right after coral tore her ACL in February

720
00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:54,120
Yeah, you guys were she was down with ACL and I was out two hands. We're like like oh, we're like a clown here

721
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,560
um, I want to loop back to uh, your family uh, up rigging

722
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,120
um, so it sounds like

723
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,760
You know, you just kind of probably sponged up like most kids of like hey

724
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,680
This is just kind of our family tradition much like, you know, we have our holiday

725
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,760
traditions at Thanksgiving or Halloween or the hot or the winter holidays

726
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:21,000
And so tell me what that was like to just like sponge up and have conversations with your dad or just like

727
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,960
overhearing him on the phone for work and

728
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,400
And uh, how did you take an interest in that afterwards?

729
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,000
You know, I was I was super fortunate and he thought

730
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:37,080
Like financial literacy and education was was really important. Um, and even his kids like he would get us going

731
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:42,120
Super really to understand it. It is and most people it doesn't happen. Um, which is

732
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:48,120
Like we grew up in a way where like money was very transparent. Um, we had conversations around it as a family early on

733
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:53,480
You know, like 10 years old. I was put, you know, as a kid you go and yeah, here's your allowance couple bucks

734
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,480
We're doing this but like they actually put me on like a hardcore

735
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:04,120
That's 10 11 years old like like fairly substantial allowance, but it's like you're buying everything you have to learn how to actually budget

736
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:10,520
Like I wanted a snowboard at one point. I was you know, I was having fun with that and I didn't have enough saved up and parents like

737
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:14,120
Well, I'm not gonna buy you one if you want snowboard you gotta figure out how to do it and like

738
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,640
He looking back at trying to find it funny because you like he caught up with buddy

739
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,080
He was president of the bank was like, hey, I'm gonna bring my kid in and you're gonna like sit down with him

740
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:26,360
Teach him about a loan but you know, so I go in and sit sit down with my friend in his office

741
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,440
Then I'm like, sir. I would like to make you a loan to get a snowboard

742
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:33,960
And uh, okay, you know, how are you gonna pay this back?

743
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,640
Recycling I'm collecting I sell some daffodils in the spring

744
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:42,280
You know five bucks a gallon and you know, I think I'll get this 150 bucks back in about a year

745
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:48,120
drew up a little document for me and got my snowboard and paid it back you know monthly over the year and

746
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,200
Like these awesome things you're a little kid

747
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,080
You got to gotta make it happen

748
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:57,480
Gotta make it cool because

749
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,960
Right, you know, it's understanding it early and then being attuned to it over the years

750
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:04,120
I'm really

751
00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:09,400
I think it's is what set the foundation for me and and even with with all the step that my my dad can involve in over the years

752
00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:14,680
You know, I'm sharing it all. It's not like oh, yeah, this is some stuff was worth some stuff was like, hey, this is

753
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,480
This is something cool. It's an education opportunity for kids

754
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:19,480
um

755
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,480
And that was such a gift

756
00:52:21,720 --> 00:52:23,080
totally

757
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:27,880
That's actually funny you said that I'm like my I had kind of the same experience growing up with my dad like he was very

758
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,160
Big emphasis on financial literacy

759
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:37,160
You know like the allowance the chores, you know, essentially like you get paid your allowance for doing the chores kind of thing like

760
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,400
But uh, but dude, it makes a huge impact because once you get down the line

761
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:46,840
Like there's there's subtle things that you don't even realize that are kind of instilled in you that that other people just

762
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,160
aren't familiar with at all

763
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:50,680
um, and it's

764
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:53,480
Kind of shocking especially when you get to it. Oh, it really is and

765
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,960
And being able to take it all the way up where I look back at certain stuff where you're like, oh, you wouldn't have learned this in school

766
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,200
Even you know, unless you're in like MBA program

767
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:02,200
um

768
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,600
But to be able to be able to get that practical. It's just huge

769
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,480
And one of the things that we talk about with our kids is like, how do we how do we instill those the same foundations?

770
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:10,600
you know and

771
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:12,600
in their education and

772
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,000
Then as they grow up to teach them about it all because it's

773
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,640
It's hard takes work

774
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:19,000
hell, yeah

775
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:24,120
Why do you know one of our kids last night? We were renting a VRBO something for Thanksgiving. He's like wait what?

776
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:26,120
like

777
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,120
$270

778
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:32,840
Like that's so much money like how do grown-ups do it? That's a year of chores

779
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,480
There's like I've been saving money, but like I couldn't pay for that whole week

780
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,320
Like that's it's it's a lot to be a grown-up grown-up. It sucks

781
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:43,720
I uh

782
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:47,720
You know, I've figured about the parallels there of having mentorship is so key

783
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:52,280
Because there's plenty of book knowledge that you can get access to if you're so inclined

784
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,640
But you know someone has to kind of plant the seed and that curiosity in you

785
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:57,640
And then you get exposed to it

786
00:53:57,720 --> 00:54:03,400
But to have a coach like every world-class athlete or high performer has a coach

787
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:10,680
And it's pretty crazy that most people when they're in riding an avalanche train don't have a coach

788
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:14,520
This is the riskiest thing they're ever going to do in their life and they don't have a coach

789
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:16,360
and

790
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:20,040
When you're talking about how to manage risk you can tap into that

791
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:25,480
Uh experienced hand and all the the crazy stuff they've seen

792
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:29,240
Over the years that's beyond our experience envelope

793
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:34,680
And you can sponge that up and we we stand on the shoulders of the people who came ahead of us

794
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,960
And uh, that's pretty amazing that you had that right from an early age

795
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:43,080
Uh, yeah that that resonated with you and now it's passed down to your kids

796
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:47,880
No, it's it's important. I mean and what you touch on there for the back country. I think is is huge, right?

797
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:51,320
I mean mentorship is how so many people how you take it from like

798
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:57,320
Book knowledge and theory to like truly applying it in the field and applying it properly in the field

799
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:02,440
Yeah, I remember I remember going out like the first time you know, you're like poking fingers and snow snow pits and you're like

800
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:04,200
How hard do you poke?

801
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:07,480
I'm like until you're doing it like with somebody. It's like, yeah, you know, yeah, exactly

802
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:11,880
It's right. But like how hard is that you're like, look at it. My finger just going the same depth. Is this dude?

803
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,520
He's really experienced. Ah, okay. That's actually right

804
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,640
What's the mass of his finger compared to my finger like what?

805
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:24,040
All right, just analyze all that you're doing some calculations in the field and you go, okay same glove will go same glove

806
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,560
But no it is it's so critical in everything in life

807
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,000
I feel like there's a funny

808
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:37,640
Uh, and will this is jeff you're like you're on the other side of this but will maybe you can

809
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,320
Feel this like or tell me how you feel. I felt like

810
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,320
Like every time

811
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:48,920
Over the years like when I started getting into backcountry skiing or got back into backcountry skiing

812
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:51,160
There's almost this sort of vibe

813
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,040
Of like hey, here's the rules

814
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:55,960
but

815
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:57,960
But like good luck

816
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:03,480
Yeah, and it wasn't really till I started hanging out with jeff and where where it was more of this conversation

817
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:08,200
It was meant to it is mentorship like I learned so much from jeff every time we go skiing like

818
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:15,960
It wasn't till I had that relationship where it was more like I could just ask stupid questions that I realized like how much I didn't

819
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:18,280
Understand like I thought I understood

820
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:21,480
But I had misunderstood like I'd learned it wrong

821
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:26,120
And to me that was like the most startling thing I learned through this

822
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:32,760
Through this whole like process of working with asper dabby and doing all this stuff is like, oh dude. I I essentially did like

823
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:39,640
A view level one way back in the day when I was like 18 and I touched the backcountry for years because I had friends who died and like all that

824
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:41,640
Cuz stuff and I just didn't trust myself

825
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:45,160
I didn't think I had a handle on and then it came back and started skiing with jeff and we kind of did like a

826
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:50,840
Refresher and all that kind of stuff and it wasn't it is even till now that I'm like, oh now I'm starting to feel like I have a

827
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:53,720
grass but before it just seemed like

828
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:57,320
People are getting like thrown to the walls like it's not

829
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:03,400
Not not for any sinister reason. It's almost just sort of like the way the architecture

830
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,040
Like did you kind of have an experience?

831
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:11,160
Completely, you know, I think we were lucky in general in life, right the best way to like

832
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,760
Get better and anything is do it with people a little better than you

833
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:18,280
And get out there with someone that's that's fast if you want to bike and follow him down a hill

834
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:22,760
You know, it's it applies across the board and that's that's how you learn best

835
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,160
But also as you just said there, you've got to be able to ask dumb questions

836
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:32,200
You know, especially in this in the skiing side, it's not just following them. It's like why like why did you make that decision?

837
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:37,960
And and you have to be able to feel a little bit uncomfortable with with where you are yourself to be able to ask that

838
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:42,280
And if you can't if you just nod, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like you're never gonna learn it

839
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:46,040
So I think it's you know for everybody. It's finding those people you can go out with that you're comfortable with

840
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:47,560
Um

841
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,560
They're willing to push you just a little bit

842
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:52,760
Or will not to push you but tell you why we're not pushing

843
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:54,760
And and assess

844
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:56,200
Um

845
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,080
Yeah, that's it's probably one of the biggest challenges in the sport. Isn't it?

846
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:03,160
I think that's that's one of the things that I mean, I was talking to somebody about aspect of the other day actually and

847
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:08,600
You know, like well, let's just go ski, you know, find a good mentor. That's like well, not everybody can find a good mentor

848
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,600
Um, you know, where do you do that? Even then like we still make bad decisions?

849
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:15,160
You know people do like we know it

850
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:16,200
um

851
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:17,560
If there's something

852
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:20,760
I think one of the most powerful things that this app does is it prompts thought

853
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:26,360
Um, it gives you yes knows right, but it also like you know, there are a lot of people out there who are going to disregard that

854
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:28,120
um

855
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:31,160
And that's personal choices, right? It's like it's what's personal talents for risk

856
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:35,240
But if you're going to disregard it, it made you think one more time

857
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:37,800
Like hey, you're making a bad choice

858
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:42,200
Um, or you're making a very risky choice. Um, is it worth it?

859
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:44,280
and that's

860
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:48,440
Yeah, you can't have a digital mentor, but you can have a digital digital gut check

861
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,440
Um, and that can be a digital gut check

862
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:54,520
Well, and it's also good to like have something visualized of like

863
00:58:55,960 --> 00:59:01,880
Going back to what we mentioned before of you know, something's dangerous, but it's totally theoretical. It's really easy to push away

864
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:07,160
It's like it's it's easy to be in denial about it. But then having a tool that's like oh shit

865
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:12,920
This thing is literally showing us what we're doing is the base jumping like the red is yep

866
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,200
Oops, man. It's way harder to like have that

867
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,200
That

868
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:22,760
Disco the cognitive disconnect I guess when you have this thing. It's so easy. You know the base

869
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,920
Yeah, we're we're all so good at rationalizing anything at everything in life

870
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:31,480
Um, when there is a hard line that's that's there for you kind of kills your ability to like

871
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:38,520
Rule it out through rationalization. Yeah, it's funny. It's even worse. I can't bully people with my uh

872
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,680
knowledge and like guys because they're like, hey Jeff

873
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:49,800
Yeah, dude, you made this thing. Yeah. Yeah. This is a high risk move and we're just not down for that and be like

874
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:52,680
Yeah, yeah, I was getting a little

875
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:55,160
I was getting a little

876
00:59:55,480 --> 01:00:01,400
Yeah, that doesn't really make that doesn't really hold up in court. Does it I felt I felt really good about it

877
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:03,960
Yeah, it's funny. I was until that moment

878
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:10,120
I was talking to someone I was telling someone about Aspa Davi like a couple months ago and they're like like

879
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:12,120
Very experienced backcountry skier

880
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:18,280
Um, and I was showing them, you know, I think right now we just have a random forecast on there from yeah

881
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:23,720
Yeah, something to play with yeah, yeah, and I was showing them that and they're like, oh well

882
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:25,720
I ski that stuff all the time and I was like, well

883
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:28,360
Yeah, this is not like

884
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,520
I was like, oh, that's interesting because

885
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:37,560
We're not like telling you what you can and can't ski. We're just showing you how dangerous what you want to ski is

886
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:39,160
you know, and it's like

887
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:40,600
so

888
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:43,160
We're not saying like you're a bad person if you go ski that

889
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:47,960
This is just an aid for you to be like, but just think about this dangerous right now

890
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:55,160
The answer is yes. Yeah, you know, I was thinking what an interesting analogy would be uh, like I'm a I'm a bad driver

891
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:57,240
like I

892
01:00:57,240 --> 01:00:59,240
I'm a rally car

893
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:04,680
Like finished rally car driver mika hockey in and get the hockey polita studded tires on the sous vide and like

894
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:09,080
You know, I so bad it would be hilarious instead of a speedometer

895
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:11,720
It has a riskometer

896
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:15,240
And you know the risk isn't linear it goes up logarithmic curve

897
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,760
So be hilarious instead of a speedo to have

898
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:21,400
You know the the risk go

899
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:26,840
And it's like doesn't state farm have that little black box. They keep trying to put your car and they're like, oh, yeah

900
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:31,400
We'll give you good rates. You're like, I don't want that thing in the car. Hell no, like it's not a chance

901
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:35,800
So like we see you've been going to talk about a lot this week. What's what's up with that?

902
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:44,920
The Borditas man, that would affect your life insurance rate right with your car. Yeah, I know everything

903
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:47,800
That's awesome. Hey

904
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:53,800
Oh, I gotta ask him Dave. Well, if you're an avalanche, what kind of avalanche would you be?

905
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:56,280
Oh

906
01:01:56,280 --> 01:02:01,160
Oh, that's a that's a I'm gonna have to ask you as well. But uh, I'm like with that persistence lab thing from earlier

907
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,680
I mean, it's like, you know, ideally you're not messing with people too much and letting them have fun

908
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:08,200
but but every once in a while you just gotta lay the smack down and uh

909
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:13,320
I would say either that or a slough ideally the slough is it's kind of unthreatening. It's friendly

910
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,040
But like it makes you think just a little bit. You know, like

911
01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:22,360
One is predictable and easy to manage and the other one is wildly

912
01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:24,680
It's impossible possible to manage

913
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:27,720
So which is keep people on their toes. Keep them on their toes

914
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:30,840
Paradox, you're a young one

915
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:36,040
This perfectly loops back into will like the dark side of will

916
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:41,320
As also like the light side of will, you know, he's like sometimes gotta be light and fluffy and happy

917
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:44,200
Have a good time

918
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:46,600
Fucking instant death

919
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:50,680
Well, the slough is what can send that persistence lab, you know in the worst-case scenario

920
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:52,360
from

921
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:53,160
Yep

922
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:54,760
Jeff, what are you doing?

923
01:02:54,760 --> 01:03:00,840
Yeah, dude. Um, yeah, it'd be really interesting to get the cross check on that. I wonder what my ex-wife would say, but um,

924
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:03,080
I would say that uh

925
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:05,080
I'm uh, I'm a storm slap

926
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:11,160
And when you're often working in a mechanized operation you get a lot of laps in or sometimes if you've been in a ski area

927
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:13,640
And there's an instability in the storm snow

928
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:17,880
Where it came in cold and fluffy and then it's a little bit top-heavy

929
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:24,760
Um, it's very predictable in how it's gonna break and where it's gonna break and often it's like the same

930
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:26,360
within a

931
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:31,480
degree or two like 37 38 degrees slope roll over where you can get it to go

932
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:33,960
but it's

933
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:36,520
You know oftentimes it's not the biggest consequences

934
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,680
um, and it's uh, it's fun to interact with

935
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:46,360
And and more predictable than say an old snow problem having said your fun to interact with

936
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:53,240
Yeah, I mean, you know, that's my self-perception and and and somewhat predictable about what you're gonna get. Um,

937
01:03:53,560 --> 01:03:56,120
You're gonna get someone quirky odd

938
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:57,720
uh

939
01:03:57,720 --> 01:03:59,720
playful curious

940
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:06,680
Is my is my self-perception, but uh, yeah, I'd be interested to throw that out to my friends that like oh no, he's deep slap

941
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:08,920
Take a poll

942
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:15,320
We should go through all of the investors like what avalanche problem is Jeff in your mind

943
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,320
That's a good profile for the other website

944
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:20,600
There's gotta be a category on linkedin for that, right?

945
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:23,960
Yeah, oh, yeah. Yeah, that's next year. They're they're bringing it up

946
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:27,720
Dave, how would you categorize yourself or characterize?

947
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:31,560
So that's your scary animal. I think I'm the human factor

948
01:04:32,360 --> 01:04:35,240
I'm uh an avalanche problem. We'll hear me out

949
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:39,080
Okay, all right. I have a lot of confidence in my skiing ability

950
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:43,240
And like I know that I can ski a lot of stuff

951
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:51,240
But if I really want to be oh my light died if I really want to be honest here like that could easily get me into all sorts of problems

952
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:53,800
Sure. And so, uh

953
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:59,240
Yeah, I don't know that's kind of the way I feel about that. It could get me into any type of avalanche really

954
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:02,840
I was hoping you'd come up with a total non sequitur and say something like

955
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:05,240
I'm a dolphin

956
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:07,240
I'm a whale

957
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:11,240
That was the best

958
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:13,240
Oh man, well, do you guys

959
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:17,560
Uh, will we've uh, we've taken up a lot of your time man. Thanks for hopping on. This has been really fun

960
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:24,520
Oh, Dave, I got one more. I got one more. What haven't we asked you that we should have asked you?

961
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:29,720
What don't we know about you to ask what don't we know enough about you to ask?

962
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:33,880
That's a good question. Dr. That's my wife that one. She'd have a far better answer

963
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:36,280
Well, Coral could and if she's in the background

964
01:05:36,280 --> 01:05:41,800
Now what would I say, uh, I think my earbud might just

965
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:44,680
Died there

966
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:50,520
Didn't we ask will in the in the interview here in the podcast? What didn't we ask will that we should have asked?

967
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:53,960
You know, I'm gonna say like what is uh

968
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:56,360
What's making me happiest these days?

969
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:59,400
Um, because I think it's one of the most important things in life is what's making you happy

970
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:01,160
What what is it that you do?

971
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:03,160
When you're not wearing a neck brace

972
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,160
Um, yeah, that that brings joy

973
01:06:05,160 --> 01:06:09,560
Um, and it's fun after all the years where like that was focused on cycling or was focused on work

974
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:14,840
Now it's focused on kids. Um, and it kind of ties it back to like teaching these little dudes to be able to go out and play

975
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:21,000
Um, it's honestly one of the the coolest things being being a dad being a parent being a mom, you know helping

976
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:24,120
Helping instill your love of the outdoors

977
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:26,680
um, or a glove of anything

978
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:29,880
In your kid's psyche and help them understand how to do it

979
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:34,920
Do it well how to do it safely but also to have just have a blast and there's nothing better than going out

980
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:38,760
You know skiing with your kids seeing them doing something you love, you know

981
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:41,320
I think especially at the ages where I'm now eight and ten

982
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:46,200
If they can do that you can go out and you ride them out like with them. You're like we just went on a real ride

983
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:48,600
It's not like I need to go on exercise afterwards

984
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:51,160
It's like we just we just did something awesome and it's the same thing

985
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:54,600
You know Nordic skiing like both our kids are part of the Nordic program here

986
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:58,200
You know, you can go out last spring you're like skating up towards paradise

987
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:01,400
You know with your kids like this is pretty magic

988
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:03,560
Yeah

989
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:09,160
I think I think for everybody that that is that is one of the coolest things in life and it's this was making me take these days

990
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:17,160
Yeah, it's a different type of adventure, right? It sounds like there's this theme that goes through from

991
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:20,120
early on till now of

992
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:24,520
Adventure and risk and reward and I like that idea of adventure

993
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:30,600
It gets really interesting when the outcomes a bit uncertain and we're not quite sure how this adventure is going to play out

994
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:37,240
It seems like you guys do that a lot with your kids whether it's traveling around the world or starting a new business venture or

995
01:07:37,880 --> 01:07:39,880
Taking them out backcountry skiing. Yeah

996
01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:44,520
It's it's the best it's sharing sharing the stuff you love with the little people that are going to share it with you for

997
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:50,120
Their whole lives and keep doing it even after you can't do you and coral have like sidebars after you watch your kids

998
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:56,040
Do stuff where you're like holy shit like it's kind of like they're getting like kind of kind of sick like or should we be concerned?

999
01:07:57,800 --> 01:07:59,800
Constantly

1000
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:03,880
That's awesome

1001
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:10,280
Oh man, well, thank you so much for coming out. It was really fun connected with you. I'm glad you're glad your neck is gonna be okay

1002
01:08:10,360 --> 01:08:11,560
That's

1003
01:08:11,560 --> 01:08:15,160
Frickin crazy man more of the story here ladders the riskiest thing

1004
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:21,880
You don't play on them always asked for help have someone holding it or handing it up to you and and then you know ideally if you are

1005
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:26,600
Gonna get hurt like this time it for mud season. Hmm great pro tip. I got lucky

1006
01:08:27,480 --> 01:08:29,480
late April

1007
01:08:29,480 --> 01:08:31,480
Or like kind of October zone

1008
01:08:31,960 --> 01:08:35,640
Yeah, but it's working pretty well right now. I should by the time there's good snow. I should be back at it

1009
01:08:36,440 --> 01:08:38,440
That's perfect. It'll be great

1010
01:08:39,480 --> 01:08:41,880
Well, I gotta put in a shameless plug

1011
01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:46,680
Shameless plug if you want to join will and coral and invest in aspect avi and

1012
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:52,840
Help this mission come to fruition of saving lives from avalanches by making the backcountry safer and more fun for everyone

1013
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:57,400
You can look us up at aspect avi and hit the contact us and drops an email and you can

1014
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:02,520
Join us for as little as a hundred bucks on we funder, which is like kickstarter for

1015
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:04,360
invest

1016
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:08,040
Yeah, we'll throw a link in the show notes for we funder for anyone who's interested

1017
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,000
It's very highly recommended

1018
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:13,000
Hop on board. Don't make it happen

1019
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:20,360
Become a part of this team the magic. Yeah, I will say that our board meetings are super fun

1020
01:09:22,440 --> 01:09:28,600
They often involve face shots and the investor retreat is really something. Yeah, and usually have very good views

1021
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:32,040
Very much so. Oh, yeah

1022
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:34,360
well guys, thank you so much for having me on today and

1023
01:09:35,480 --> 01:09:38,680
I look forward to getting out and playing some this winter when when it's possible again

1024
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:40,680
Yeah, I'm looking forward to getting back to her and with you. Well

1025
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:46,440
That's it. That's the show. Thanks so much for listening watching however you're doing your pods these days

1026
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:49,080
If you like what we're doing, please consider subscribing

1027
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:55,560
Uh, leaving a review or a rating sending it to your friends really does help us out one last thanks to our business daddy aspect avi

1028
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:58,360
For making the all aspects podcast possible

1029
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:03,160
If you want to try out asp dive for yourself head on over to the app store and download it on ios for free

1030
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:08,760
Thanks so much for listening and watching and we'll see you in the next one you

1031
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:35,160
You

1032
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:37,160
You

1033
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:00,040
I

1034
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:07,080
I like finished rally car driver mika hockey man get the hockey fleet of studded tires on the cd and like

1035
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:31,080
You know so bad it would be hilarious instead of a speedometer. It has a really good speedometer. Thanks. I love you so much. I love you so much. Thanks.