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You know, there's a common analogy for risk, explaining risk.

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It's like, hey, if you have a block of Swiss cheese, you can

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squirt the mustard and mayo and it'll pass right through those

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holes in the cheese, right?

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But if you slice it and you put a bunch of those layers on top of

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your sandwich, the mustard and mayo can't get through anymore.

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Because you've added too many layers of cheese so the holes

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don't line up anymore.

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So it protects your bread from getting soggy.

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So these are risk treatments that we're adding to enhance the

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quality of our sandwich and lower our risk while we're doing

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inherently dangerous things.

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We're talking about enhancing the quality of our safety

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sandwich today.

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There you go.

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Exactly.

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That's the tagline right there.

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Welcome to All Aspects, a podcast where we explore, discuss

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and celebrate adventure culture and outdoor lifestyle.

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It is our mission to educate, inform and entertain our fellow

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adventurers about the inherent risks that surround us every time

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we go outside to play and to provide you with the knowledge

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and tools to help you do the things you love the most and

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the safest way possible.

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All Aspects is brought to you by AspectAvy.

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AspectAvy is on a mission to save lives by making avalanche

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safety simple.

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It's the only app that tells you where the high and low risk

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zones are for today's avalanche danger.

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With a suite of built in tools like forecast verification,

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slope meter and gear checklist, AspectAvy is the new safety

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standard for avalanche risk management.

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Remember, there are dozens of apps that get you into the

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back country, but there's only one that's designed to bring you

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home.

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And that's AspectAvy.

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Go to aspectavy.com to learn more or download the app to

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start your 30 day free trial.

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Thank you, AspectAvy, for making this show possible and

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thank you for listening.

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All right, let's get to the show.

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Today, where do polar bears put their money?

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I don't know, Jeff.

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Snow banks, Dave.

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Snow banks.

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Oh, come on.

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I should have seen that one coming.

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Jeez.

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Well, Jeff, what are we talking about today, man?

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This is your topic.

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Oh, yeah, let's do a deep dive into travel techniques.

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Okay, cool.

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I like that.

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So, like, do you want to just give me a rundown on kind of

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what you think people need to know?

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Yeah, I mean, I think let's take a little myth but I'm

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going to take a little myth busters approach to this.

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Because a lot of times folks are making a classic mistake

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where they've chosen the wrong terrain or they find out the

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snowpack is way more unstable than was forecasted.

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And they're like, oh, let's use travel techniques to make up

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for really poor terrain choices.

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And so you'll hear the classic thing of, let's just ski at

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one at a time.

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It'll be all right.

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And you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, huge red flag.

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Great time to stop.

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The reason why we want to use travel techniques is to minimize

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our risk even further.

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We want to choose terrain that's in line with the avalanche

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danger and the problem types that it's going to be low risk.

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But then the travel techniques we do are like a couple extra

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layers piled on top of risk mitigation.

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And it's super important to make sure we're clear on why we're

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using the right travel technique at the right time.

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Okay, so you're saying that travel techniques can only be used in

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like, or like in concert or I don't know, like you can't use

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travel techniques to circumvent bad conditions.

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They can only be used to like help you stay safer once you

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already made other decisions to keep you in like a low risk

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scenario.

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Yeah, yeah, you want to be choosing the right terrain for

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the day's avalanche conditions.

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And then this is our last bit of risk mitigation that we stack

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on top.

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And so, you know, there's a common analogy for risk explaining

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risk is like, hey, if you have a block of Swiss cheese, you can

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squirt the mustard and mayo and it'll pass right through those

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holes in the cheese, right?

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But if you slice it and you put a bunch of those layers on top

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of your sandwich, the mustard and mayo can't get through anymore

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because you've added too many layers of cheese so the holes

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don't line up anymore.

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So it protects your bread from getting soggy.

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So these are risk treatments that we're adding to enhance the

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quality of our sandwich and lower our risk while we're doing

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inherently dangerous things.

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We're talking about enhancing the quality of our safety

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sandwich today.

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There you go.

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Exactly.

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That's the that's the tagline right there.

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Yeah.

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Okay, well then let me ask a maybe like a stupid question, but

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one that probably not everyone knows the answer to right off

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the bat except the tone.

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Yeah.

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You know, do we ever want to go ski touring or go out in the

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back country alone?

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Well, we need to choose the days appropriately.

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I prefer to ski tour with friends because it's very social.

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However, I will go out on some solo missions and maybe it's

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just because I don't have much time or couldn't line up

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partners or maybe I'm looking to just spend some alone time.

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But keep in mind that if it's really cold weather or stormy

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or we're out of communications, that could be a very serious

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tour in a hurry.

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So you may want to choose those days when the weather is good.

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It's not too cold and maybe start off early in the day.

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So if something goes wrong, there's plenty of time for help

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to come get to you if you have a way of communicating with

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the outside world.

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So you may choose to go to one of your local areas that is

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good cell phone reception.

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That maybe other people are around or you've got something

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like say a Garmin in reach where you can text out and get

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help on the way.

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But I'd be reluctant to, you know, the worst case scenario

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would be like super cold day, really bad weather, poor visibility,

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probably sketchy avalanche conditions as well.

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You're out there on your own and no communications.

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All of a sudden that's becoming a really, really high risk

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proposition. That's a super sketchy sandwich.

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Yeah, but for like ideal group, usually three is about my

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magic number because you've got two people to help three total.

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Yeah, two people to help or rescue in theory.

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If one person's hurt or gets avalanched, but it's also very

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nimble and it's just the right size socially as well, where

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you can often make decisions pretty quickly.

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And reach consensus much easier than say a group of like five

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or six people.

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Large groups are really tricky to manage unless there's a

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clearly defined leader.

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If I'm guiding, it was a clear hierarchy and it's a lot easier

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to facilitate discussions because I take a leadership role.

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But often in a group of friends or peers, if you've got like

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six people or more or five, it could be quite awkward and

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people have a hard time navigating that and just the

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size of the group actually becomes pretty unwieldy and it's

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hard also to implement some of the travel techniques that can

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up our safety margin as well.

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So the size of your group is part of the travel technique

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in itself.

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Yeah, and to be honest, like if it's a day where conditions

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are a bit sketchy, I'm really not psyched on being in a large

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group. I'd much rather be in two groups of friends or a group

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of friends, I'd much rather be in two groups of three and just

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say, hey, you guys go that way.

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We'll go this way and we'll keep in radio contact.

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We'll meet at the top or just choose really reasonable terrain

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that's got a big safety barge.

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And so you can expect if you're in a group of four or more,

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stuff's going to get squirrely and the likelihood of miscommunication

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or making aggressive decisions goes up really fast.

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So when you say stuff is going to get squirrely, what are you

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referring to specifically?

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Oh, just the human factor traps.

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It's much harder to make a decision and reach a consensus

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in a large group.

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So you'll often start leaning on the classic human factor

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traps we've talked about in a previous podcast and they'll

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get turned right up because it's really hard to have a

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framework for get everyone on the same page.

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Shane was brought in a bug.

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If you've got aspect avi, you can all be on the same page and

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say, says here, that's red.

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Let's not ski the bull.

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Let's see the wine on the ridge.

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Sound good?

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All right, everybody on board.

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Let's do it.

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And then that can really facilitate it.

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So it's just that consensus element that's the more voices

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in there, the harder it may be.

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Oh, yeah.

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I mean, if you ever cook dinner with five people, I mean,

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it's madness.

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You know, two people is about right.

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Maybe three.

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Yeah.

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Okay, well, then let's jump into it.

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Let's start.

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Let's start with uphill travel right off the bat.

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So how do you move your group through the terrain and lower

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your risk as much as possible?

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Yeah.

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So one of the classic things would be if you're moving uphill

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when you're on the skin track, you would space out a bus

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length apart.

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And that seems really simple, but it's amazing how really

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intelligent people struggle with this concept.

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And what happens is it's fine when you're cruising uphill

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until you get to switchbacks.

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And if it's it totally falls apart.

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So if this is our kick turn, if I'm in the back and you're

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in the front, I need to maintain that school bus length

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not on the skin track like where if you're dragging a string.

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But yeah, there's a circle of stress that you're putting on

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the snowpack and one I'm putting on the snowpack.

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We don't want those to ever overlap.

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You don't want the Venn diagram of snow stress to start happening.

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That would be the Venn diagram of doom.

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Yes.

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Be very unfortunate.

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The doom diagram.

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Yeah.

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And the reason why we're spreading out as a standard

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precaution, we've hopefully chosen low risk terrain for the

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day, have lunch conditions, but we're further adding on those

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slices of cheese that was risk treatments by spreading our

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weight out.

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And so if there's a land mine on a weak spot, like particularly

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with an old snow problem, if we've got five of us all crammed

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up together talking, we're putting so much stress in one spot

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that we can penetrate that through the snowpack a lot deeper

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and possibly trigger a weak layer down that, you know, if

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you're just moving along one at a time that you wouldn't be able

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to affect.

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Like if I jump up and down right now, I don't know, maybe I

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can create 300 pounds of force something like that.

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But if all five of us are jumping up and down, maybe

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that's 1500 pounds of force.

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That's a lot different.

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So that would be the classic is, hey, just as a standard,

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you know, operating procedure, if we're going to be an avalanche

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train, we're going to spread out a bus length apart on the

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up track here.

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But I've been in situations where the decision was, you

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know what, we can't go forward anymore.

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We probably have to dig in for the night.

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And that's what's going to make the most sense.

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So if you're in that situation, why couldn't you just like,

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why couldn't you just ride the skin track out?

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Oh, yeah.

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If you've already made it that far.

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Yeah, that's a great question.

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You might be able to, but maybe conditions changed.

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Okay.

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Yeah, like the storm came in.

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So that means like if you're in the middle of something.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's not like what's in front of you like a shooting crack

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went off in front of you.

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00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:00,540
It's like, uh-oh.

256
00:12:00,540 --> 00:12:00,840
Yeah.

257
00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:02,540
We're surrounded now by high risk.

258
00:12:02,540 --> 00:12:03,340
Yeah.

259
00:12:03,340 --> 00:12:06,840
We had our mental model coming in, but now as the dude would

260
00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:08,940
say, new shit has come to light, man.

261
00:12:08,940 --> 00:12:12,040
And you're like, okay, we need to change our actions.

262
00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,440
And it's like, hey, you know, a lot of times when you're in

263
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,840
Europe and they have readily available helicopter rescue,

264
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:22,740
they're so psyched to have you call before you have an accident.

265
00:12:22,740 --> 00:12:24,940
And they're like, yeah, we'll come and win you out.

266
00:12:24,940 --> 00:12:26,340
It's okay.

267
00:12:26,340 --> 00:12:30,140
We'd much rather win you out when you're healthy than dig you

268
00:12:30,140 --> 00:12:31,840
out after you've been buried.

269
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,140
Yeah. It's a lot easier to move people who are, uh, who are

270
00:12:35,140 --> 00:12:35,840
not injured.

271
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:36,940
Yeah. Exactly.

272
00:12:36,940 --> 00:12:37,540
Yeah.

273
00:12:37,540 --> 00:12:41,140
But, um, you know, one exception to the rule of spacing out

274
00:12:41,140 --> 00:12:44,540
when you're an avalanche train on the skin track would be

275
00:12:44,540 --> 00:12:47,140
let's say it's rock hard corn snow in the morning.

276
00:12:47,140 --> 00:12:50,640
Uh, and you dug down with your ice axe or your boot heel and

277
00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,140
you're like, we keep digging and we're on six inches of frozen

278
00:12:54,140 --> 00:12:54,940
corn.

279
00:12:54,940 --> 00:12:58,740
It's rock solid and there's like half inch or one inch of

280
00:12:58,740 --> 00:13:02,140
thaw. Um, and then by all means you can bunch up, be very

281
00:13:02,140 --> 00:13:05,740
conversational or another exception would be, you know,

282
00:13:05,740 --> 00:13:08,340
you might only be an avalanche train for a very short section

283
00:13:08,340 --> 00:13:12,140
of the skin track and that's the only places you spread out.

284
00:13:12,140 --> 00:13:15,740
Right. Cause when we go touring, we're always like within

285
00:13:15,740 --> 00:13:19,740
conversational distance of each other until it gets to that

286
00:13:19,740 --> 00:13:21,140
30 plus degree.

287
00:13:21,140 --> 00:13:21,840
Yeah.

288
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:22,540
Terrain.

289
00:13:22,540 --> 00:13:25,740
And then it's super important to have radios so that you're

290
00:13:25,740 --> 00:13:28,740
going to be spread out and it's going to be hard to communicate.

291
00:13:28,740 --> 00:13:31,940
And particularly if I'm not very fit and I'm off the back and

292
00:13:31,940 --> 00:13:35,540
I'm just recovering from the flu and I get a collapse and a

293
00:13:35,540 --> 00:13:39,640
shooting crack and I'm like, Hey, guys, and you can't hear me

294
00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,940
because you gapped me off the back.

295
00:13:42,940 --> 00:13:44,540
You know, we need to be able to communicate.

296
00:13:44,540 --> 00:13:46,440
So radios are pretty clutch for that.

297
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:47,540
So I have another question.

298
00:13:47,540 --> 00:13:50,440
What, you know, a lot of times when we're looking at, you

299
00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,840
know, when we'll see a skin track somewhere, it'll be like

300
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,540
in a logging road or something, a lot of times just because of

301
00:13:56,540 --> 00:14:00,340
that bank above where they cut a road, that'll actually be

302
00:14:01,340 --> 00:14:02,640
more than 30 degrees.

303
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:03,140
Okay.

304
00:14:03,340 --> 00:14:05,840
You know, just that short bank and that could easily slough

305
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:06,640
down in on you.

306
00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:06,940
Yeah.

307
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,540
But we don't necessarily space out in those scenarios.

308
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,040
Can you explain to me like sort of why the difference in that

309
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:14,240
is?

310
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:14,740
Yeah, sure.

311
00:14:14,740 --> 00:14:16,540
Let me paraphrase it back just to make sure I'm hearing it

312
00:14:16,540 --> 00:14:17,040
right.

313
00:14:17,140 --> 00:14:22,040
So if you're on a pretty uniform slope and it's say like high

314
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,740
20s, but it's not avalanche strain, but then we come along

315
00:14:25,740 --> 00:14:30,540
a road cut and there's a slope that's way over 30 degrees

316
00:14:30,540 --> 00:14:31,440
that could avalanche.

317
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,740
You're saying, Hey, what do you think about spacing out there?

318
00:14:33,740 --> 00:14:34,540
Is that accurate?

319
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:35,940
Yeah, essentially.

320
00:14:35,940 --> 00:14:39,640
I mean, I've just, there've definitely been times where, yeah,

321
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,740
we're on a road cut using it to hike up.

322
00:14:42,740 --> 00:14:43,040
Yeah.

323
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,940
And we know that that, that, that hill that's above us is much

324
00:14:47,940 --> 00:14:48,740
more than 30.

325
00:14:48,740 --> 00:14:49,040
Yeah.

326
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,040
Is it just because we're on that flat cut?

327
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:52,640
Yeah.

328
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,640
So that it's okay for us.

329
00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,140
Like we, we're not worried about remote triggering in that

330
00:14:57,140 --> 00:14:57,440
sense.

331
00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:58,640
There's two things going on.

332
00:14:58,640 --> 00:14:59,940
Let's handle them one at a time.

333
00:15:00,340 --> 00:15:04,040
If it's just a short road cut above me, I need to use some

334
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:08,140
judgment and expertise and decide, is this a D one or a D

335
00:15:08,140 --> 00:15:10,840
two D one means harmless to humans.

336
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:15,340
So, you know, the Swissies, for instance, they say look in

337
00:15:15,340 --> 00:15:19,440
the Austrian say look at the slope of 20 by 20 meters.

338
00:15:19,540 --> 00:15:21,340
So it's about 70 by 70 feet.

339
00:15:21,940 --> 00:15:24,940
Personally, for me, that's actually a lot of snow.

340
00:15:25,740 --> 00:15:30,640
And if you think about a roof that's like 70 feet by 70

341
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,240
feet and that slides on you.

342
00:15:32,940 --> 00:15:33,840
Dude, that mess you up.

343
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:34,540
That mess you up.

344
00:15:34,540 --> 00:15:34,740
Yeah.

345
00:15:34,740 --> 00:15:36,340
It's a little bit big for my taste.

346
00:15:36,340 --> 00:15:40,940
So I think for me, that size is more by 30 by 30 feet, something

347
00:15:40,940 --> 00:15:41,440
like that.

348
00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:42,140
Okay.

349
00:15:42,140 --> 00:15:45,540
And I'm like, Hey, you know, that's a D one.

350
00:15:45,540 --> 00:15:48,340
And if it trigger, if we trigger it from the road and it

351
00:15:48,340 --> 00:15:51,340
comes down on top of us, it's pretty harmless.

352
00:15:51,740 --> 00:15:52,140
Okay.

353
00:15:52,340 --> 00:15:53,540
There are some exceptions.

354
00:15:53,540 --> 00:15:56,940
Like if you're in a gully where there's, there's no place for

355
00:15:56,940 --> 00:15:58,940
the snow to go and it builds up super deep.

356
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,040
That could be a problem.

357
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:06,440
But I think the more nuanced question you're driving at is

358
00:16:06,740 --> 00:16:11,240
let's say like where we live in Crested Butte Kebler Pass is a

359
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,940
summertime road and there's a lot of road cuts above us that

360
00:16:14,940 --> 00:16:17,940
were bulldozed and they're quite steep, but they're short.

361
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,940
But you're like, whew, I wouldn't want that to fall.

362
00:16:21,940 --> 00:16:25,740
I mean, that's kind of in the 30 to 40, maybe even 50 foot

363
00:16:25,740 --> 00:16:26,540
size slope.

364
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,640
But yeah, where it becomes incredibly hard to trigger that

365
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:36,140
from the road is when that road is snowmobile and snowcatted

366
00:16:36,140 --> 00:16:38,140
and pounded into concrete.

367
00:16:38,340 --> 00:16:39,740
There's no weak layers there.

368
00:16:39,740 --> 00:16:41,240
Right.

369
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,440
So this is pretty fine nuance.

370
00:16:44,740 --> 00:16:50,040
And you know, if I'm on that main corridor where it gets

371
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,740
pounded by snowmobiles and snowcats every single day of the

372
00:16:52,740 --> 00:16:56,840
year, it's highly unlikely I'm going to disturb a weak layer

373
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,140
that could bring that road cut down on top of me.

374
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,240
But where it gets like unless you went and romped up the

375
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,440
hill, asking for it, like cut it and then then they could all

376
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,940
come down, but if you're on that hard pack room, the weak

377
00:17:10,940 --> 00:17:12,040
layer is gone at that point.

378
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:12,840
Exactly.

379
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:17,440
But you know, that might be a case where you may choose to

380
00:17:17,540 --> 00:17:18,440
spread out.

381
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,240
If you're like, hey, you know, there is risk from people

382
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,740
triggering from above other snowmobiles or riders out there.

383
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,940
So let's go ahead and space out here for the unexpected where

384
00:17:28,940 --> 00:17:31,440
it gets really nuanced though is where it gets tricky is a lot

385
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:36,040
of times hut approaches will be hammered out if you're right

386
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,740
on the skin track and it'll be on a summertime road.

387
00:17:40,740 --> 00:17:45,540
And as long as you stay on that narrow path, maybe three feet

388
00:17:45,540 --> 00:17:49,340
wide, the likelihood of you triggering a weak layer is

389
00:17:49,340 --> 00:17:51,540
really low because it gets so much traffic.

390
00:17:51,540 --> 00:17:53,940
Couple times a week, people are packing that down.

391
00:17:54,740 --> 00:17:57,240
But if you get a little off to the side, you're like, hey,

392
00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:58,440
Dave, I'll catch up to you.

393
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,340
I'm going to pull off the trail and take a leak.

394
00:18:00,740 --> 00:18:05,140
That might be enough to get off the pack down skin track or

395
00:18:05,140 --> 00:18:08,540
the old ski tracks that come out and I could affect that weak

396
00:18:08,540 --> 00:18:11,740
layer and trigger the slope down on top of me and the rest of

397
00:18:11,740 --> 00:18:12,240
the team.

398
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:17,940
So that's where it's like, whoa, thought about how much

399
00:18:17,940 --> 00:18:22,540
confidence do I have here in that I'm on the skin track or on

400
00:18:22,540 --> 00:18:26,440
the old ski tracks that people ski downhill coming out.

401
00:18:27,540 --> 00:18:28,840
That's cutting it pretty fine.

402
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:34,640
And I'd rather not take or I'd rather have a larger buffer

403
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:35,540
for risk, I think.

404
00:18:37,140 --> 00:18:37,740
Gotcha.

405
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:38,540
That makes sense.

406
00:18:38,540 --> 00:18:38,940
Yeah.

407
00:18:39,940 --> 00:18:44,640
We just covered uphill and we you just taught me something

408
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,640
about the dangers of the off to attract danger P that I never

409
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:49,540
even thought about.

410
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,640
But now it's time to talk about travel technique on the

411
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:54,240
downhill.

412
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:54,740
Sure.

413
00:18:55,540 --> 00:18:59,740
So once we get to the top, we've transitioned into our

414
00:18:59,740 --> 00:19:00,640
downhill mode.

415
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,340
We make sure that our boots are no longer in walk mode than

416
00:19:04,340 --> 00:19:04,840
what?

417
00:19:04,940 --> 00:19:05,740
What's our next move?

418
00:19:05,740 --> 00:19:06,440
All right, cool.

419
00:19:06,540 --> 00:19:11,840
So we want to choose a line that has high high rewards and

420
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:13,040
low risk optimally.

421
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,140
And when I say low risk, I mean, hey, is this a survivable

422
00:19:17,140 --> 00:19:22,440
run out or are we going to get raked over the cliffs through

423
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,640
the trees into a gully into a gully?

424
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:25,940
Yeah.

425
00:19:26,140 --> 00:19:29,640
So, you know, again, it comes back to terrain first.

426
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,740
Let's choose a low risk terrain option for the day's conditions.

427
00:19:34,340 --> 00:19:37,340
And then let's add those layers of risk treatment.

428
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:43,540
So our travel technique, we're going to ideally ski fall line

429
00:19:44,340 --> 00:19:48,840
and then do a 90 degree turn out to the right or the left.

430
00:19:49,740 --> 00:19:52,540
So that if something comes down, we're out of the line of

431
00:19:52,540 --> 00:19:56,440
fire and we want to be riding one at a time when we're

432
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,740
on an avalanche train on the downhill and radios are pretty

433
00:19:59,740 --> 00:20:02,540
clutched to be able to communicate back and forth like

434
00:20:02,540 --> 00:20:05,040
waving poles just doesn't cut it.

435
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,640
Particularly if I'm like, oh my gosh, I just got a massive

436
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:09,840
collapse down there.

437
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,840
And if I'm trying to like wave that with poles like my old

438
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,640
style Navy ship signaling skills are not that strong.

439
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,540
I think they're probably just going to think, oh, Jeff's

440
00:20:18,540 --> 00:20:19,140
really excited.

441
00:20:19,140 --> 00:20:20,440
It must have been really good riding.

442
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:21,040
Let's go.

443
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:22,840
Let's go.

444
00:20:23,340 --> 00:20:23,640
Yeah.

445
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,140
So one at a time and you want to position yourself out of

446
00:20:27,140 --> 00:20:28,140
the line of fire.

447
00:20:28,140 --> 00:20:32,140
So one question that people often have is how far down the

448
00:20:32,140 --> 00:20:33,240
pitch do we go?

449
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:38,540
And unfortunately, there's very few hard and fast answers.

450
00:20:39,340 --> 00:20:43,540
You could imagine with a very large peak say 3000 vertical

451
00:20:43,540 --> 00:20:44,040
feet.

452
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,340
If you wanted to be fully out of the run out zone, you might

453
00:20:48,340 --> 00:20:51,540
be two hours away if someone gets buried up on the slope

454
00:20:51,540 --> 00:20:53,440
and you'd have to scan all the way back up.

455
00:20:53,740 --> 00:20:55,040
You're so far away.

456
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,740
So you have to kind of split the balance of choosing where to

457
00:20:59,740 --> 00:21:01,440
regroup with our travel techniques.

458
00:21:01,740 --> 00:21:08,940
And ideally for the days avalanche size, you've gone down

459
00:21:08,940 --> 00:21:11,740
far enough that you should be out of the run out and then

460
00:21:11,740 --> 00:21:14,140
you've gone off to the side at 90 degrees.

461
00:21:14,340 --> 00:21:16,040
So you're not under the line of fire.

462
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:17,540
And it's funny.

463
00:21:17,540 --> 00:21:20,540
People often have a hard time staying disciplined.

464
00:21:20,540 --> 00:21:24,140
We're social creatures and so we'll often instead of staying

465
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:29,040
you know, farming tracks and then doing that 90 degree

466
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:30,140
hockey stick at the bottom.

467
00:21:30,340 --> 00:21:33,340
They'll just shoot the hypotenuse and go right at the first

468
00:21:33,340 --> 00:21:37,640
person or the guide and you're like, I don't want you riding

469
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:38,640
in on top of me.

470
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,040
You're going to avalanche me out.

471
00:21:42,540 --> 00:21:43,640
I am not a target.

472
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:44,540
Yeah, exactly.

473
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,340
So, you know, often if I'm going to be headed fall line and

474
00:21:48,340 --> 00:21:51,040
then ski to the right to get out of line of fire, I'll say,

475
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,340
Hey, stack your tracks to the left of mine.

476
00:21:53,540 --> 00:21:57,340
Keep them snug and then come over with a hockey stick at the

477
00:21:57,340 --> 00:21:57,840
end.

478
00:21:58,140 --> 00:21:59,640
And that's a great way to manage your group.

479
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,640
Another great tactic.

480
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:03,640
Wait, can I ask you?

481
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:04,140
Yeah, sure.

482
00:22:04,140 --> 00:22:07,940
Can I ask you a question about, you know, like if you're

483
00:22:07,940 --> 00:22:09,140
just going to ski a bull, right?

484
00:22:09,140 --> 00:22:09,640
Yep.

485
00:22:10,140 --> 00:22:12,140
A lot of times, especially what you just said, you're going

486
00:22:12,140 --> 00:22:14,840
to ski it in stages like maybe a thousand feet or something

487
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:15,340
like that.

488
00:22:15,340 --> 00:22:20,340
So how do you choose your sort of hockey stick punch out?

489
00:22:21,340 --> 00:22:24,340
If you're in the middle of a huge bull, like what are we

490
00:22:24,340 --> 00:22:25,340
looking for?

491
00:22:25,340 --> 00:22:26,340
Yeah, that's a great question.

492
00:22:27,340 --> 00:22:30,340
It's very much situationally dependent and it's a really

493
00:22:30,340 --> 00:22:31,340
complex challenge.

494
00:22:31,340 --> 00:22:34,340
So let's try to give you some guidelines to go with here.

495
00:22:35,340 --> 00:22:38,340
The, you know, the first part, of course, is this is a

496
00:22:38,340 --> 00:22:39,340
survivable line.

497
00:22:39,340 --> 00:22:42,840
Like I'm not really into skiing close out lines to be totally

498
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:43,340
honest.

499
00:22:43,340 --> 00:22:46,340
Like that's maybe one or two days a year when the conditions

500
00:22:46,340 --> 00:22:48,340
have been low danger for a while.

501
00:22:49,340 --> 00:22:53,340
So that'd be first and foremost, but oftentimes you're

502
00:22:53,340 --> 00:22:57,340
looking to avoid potential trigger points like rocky areas

503
00:22:57,340 --> 00:23:02,340
or maybe a steep rollover and gravitating towards a smooth

504
00:23:02,340 --> 00:23:04,340
consistent planar slope.

505
00:23:04,340 --> 00:23:07,340
And when I say planar, just think of like a book tilted on

506
00:23:07,340 --> 00:23:12,340
its side at 35 degrees where I'm unlikely to find further

507
00:23:12,340 --> 00:23:16,340
to find facets near bushes and boulders and I don't have a

508
00:23:16,340 --> 00:23:17,340
big rollover.

509
00:23:17,340 --> 00:23:19,340
It's a smooth uniform slope.

510
00:23:19,340 --> 00:23:21,340
That is optimal.

511
00:23:21,340 --> 00:23:23,340
That's what I'm aiming for.

512
00:23:23,340 --> 00:23:25,340
Those are the lowest risk slopes.

513
00:23:25,340 --> 00:23:28,340
I'm further adding more risk treatments to increase my

514
00:23:28,340 --> 00:23:29,340
margins of safety.

515
00:23:29,340 --> 00:23:30,340
So I'll look for that.

516
00:23:30,340 --> 00:23:34,340
And then if they're saying, Hey, the expected size today are

517
00:23:34,340 --> 00:23:37,340
D one and a half to D two.

518
00:23:37,340 --> 00:23:39,340
So relatively small.

519
00:23:39,340 --> 00:23:42,340
I'll be like, okay, let's factor that into how long of a pitch

520
00:23:42,340 --> 00:23:45,340
we're going to ski and how far to the side do we need to move

521
00:23:45,340 --> 00:23:46,340
out of the way.

522
00:23:46,340 --> 00:23:52,340
And if we can find a lower risk regrouping spot, that's optimal.

523
00:23:52,340 --> 00:23:56,340
And that would be something like a band of old growth trees

524
00:23:56,340 --> 00:23:59,340
that's clearly not been affected by avalanches.

525
00:23:59,340 --> 00:24:04,340
That's usually like a kind of like a little ridge that sticks

526
00:24:04,340 --> 00:24:05,340
up out of the bowl.

527
00:24:05,340 --> 00:24:08,340
So the snow would flow around it.

528
00:24:08,340 --> 00:24:14,340
That can be a great little low risk regroup spot.

529
00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:17,340
There used to be a phrase that made me bristle called islands

530
00:24:17,340 --> 00:24:18,340
of safety.

531
00:24:18,340 --> 00:24:22,340
And, you know, there's plenty of islands in the Pacific that are

532
00:24:22,340 --> 00:24:25,340
not really safe anymore because of global warming and rising

533
00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:27,340
sea level temperature.

534
00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:31,340
You know, like it's, it's, it's got to be really careful about

535
00:24:31,340 --> 00:24:32,340
using the term safe.

536
00:24:32,340 --> 00:24:34,340
It's more like, oh, that's high risk.

537
00:24:34,340 --> 00:24:37,340
That's right in the gut where it's going to get funneled.

538
00:24:37,340 --> 00:24:42,340
Or that's lower risk because that's out of line of fire and

539
00:24:42,340 --> 00:24:43,340
it's raised up.

540
00:24:43,340 --> 00:24:48,340
And for the D one and a half to D two size avalanches they're

541
00:24:48,340 --> 00:24:50,340
talking about today in the bulletin.

542
00:24:50,340 --> 00:24:52,340
It's a pretty reasonable bet.

543
00:24:52,340 --> 00:24:56,340
And I'm trying to balance that with, I could go much farther out

544
00:24:56,340 --> 00:25:00,340
into the bowl, but if somebody in my party gets avalanched, I

545
00:25:00,340 --> 00:25:06,340
can't help them because it'll take me two hours to get back up.

546
00:25:06,340 --> 00:25:10,340
And you always, you know, like, I guess we never really talked

547
00:25:10,340 --> 00:25:14,340
about this, but it always seems like unless we're skiing glades

548
00:25:14,340 --> 00:25:17,340
where there's, there's no chance of being able to see someone,

549
00:25:17,340 --> 00:25:22,340
you usually want your regroup zone to be within visual line of

550
00:25:22,340 --> 00:25:23,340
sight.

551
00:25:23,340 --> 00:25:26,340
That would be optimal of the people at the top.

552
00:25:26,340 --> 00:25:29,340
So you can see the whole line someone's skiing.

553
00:25:29,340 --> 00:25:30,340
Yeah.

554
00:25:30,340 --> 00:25:32,340
But to be fair, sometimes like, let's say you're skiing a narrow

555
00:25:32,340 --> 00:25:36,340
road, the lowest risk place is tucked up under the, the cliffs

556
00:25:36,340 --> 00:25:40,340
wall and I'll be holding onto the rock.

557
00:25:40,340 --> 00:25:44,340
Like not like, you know, a couple of meters away from the rock

558
00:25:44,340 --> 00:25:48,340
wall, if it breaks at the rock wall, I want to be right where it

559
00:25:48,340 --> 00:25:49,340
breaks on it.

560
00:25:49,340 --> 00:25:53,340
Or if slough comes through from the other riders, I want to be

561
00:25:53,340 --> 00:25:55,340
tucked up out of the way.

562
00:25:55,340 --> 00:25:57,340
So travel technique.

563
00:25:57,340 --> 00:26:01,340
When you're skiing really steep pitches or in a cool art is you

564
00:26:01,340 --> 00:26:04,340
have people stack in below the guide.

565
00:26:04,340 --> 00:26:08,340
So come in below me instead of above me.

566
00:26:08,340 --> 00:26:12,340
Cause if you come in above, you're going to slough me out.

567
00:26:12,340 --> 00:26:16,340
So they would ride down fall line and then do the hockey stick

568
00:26:16,340 --> 00:26:18,340
and come under me.

569
00:26:18,340 --> 00:26:19,340
Right.

570
00:26:19,340 --> 00:26:21,340
And then I'd be like, Hey, should we right up against the wall,

571
00:26:21,340 --> 00:26:24,340
hand on the rock.

572
00:26:24,340 --> 00:26:25,340
Yeah.

573
00:26:25,340 --> 00:26:26,340
Yeah.

574
00:26:26,340 --> 00:26:29,340
Should we dispel a myth real quick about, you know, like if one

575
00:26:29,340 --> 00:26:32,340
of the reasons that hockey stick is so important or just that,

576
00:26:32,340 --> 00:26:35,340
you know, getting out of that zone is so important is just

577
00:26:35,340 --> 00:26:38,340
because one person drops in, say the first person goes and

578
00:26:38,340 --> 00:26:40,340
drops, nothing slides.

579
00:26:40,340 --> 00:26:42,340
Second person goes and drops, nothing slides.

580
00:26:42,340 --> 00:26:45,340
But that third person, it could still slide.

581
00:26:45,340 --> 00:26:46,340
Yeah.

582
00:26:46,340 --> 00:26:47,340
There's no guarantee.

583
00:26:47,340 --> 00:26:48,340
Exactly.

584
00:26:48,340 --> 00:26:49,340
Yeah.

585
00:26:49,340 --> 00:26:50,340
I feel like that's something.

586
00:26:50,340 --> 00:26:52,340
Hey, I'm the fourth person to ski this slow.

587
00:26:52,340 --> 00:26:55,340
I'm going to turn my beacon off and save the battery.

588
00:26:55,340 --> 00:26:56,340
Yeah.

589
00:26:56,340 --> 00:26:57,340
Yeah.

590
00:26:57,340 --> 00:27:00,340
I think that's something that you can do when you're dealing with

591
00:27:00,340 --> 00:27:02,340
an old snow problem.

592
00:27:02,340 --> 00:27:05,340
Just because there's tracks on the slope doesn't mean anything.

593
00:27:05,340 --> 00:27:06,340
Doesn't mean anything.

594
00:27:06,340 --> 00:27:10,340
You could see a track or sorry, a slope littered with tracks and

595
00:27:10,340 --> 00:27:14,340
someone hits the landmine, you know, super weak zone near rocks

596
00:27:14,340 --> 00:27:18,340
or shrubs and boom, they kick off the avalanche where it's less

597
00:27:18,340 --> 00:27:22,340
likely to have a problem is if the primary problem is sloughing.

598
00:27:22,340 --> 00:27:26,340
Usually the first person through a clear out most of the slough.

599
00:27:26,340 --> 00:27:30,340
And then to some extent, wind slab and storm slab.

600
00:27:30,340 --> 00:27:34,340
Usually if you're on other people's tracks and you're dealing

601
00:27:34,340 --> 00:27:37,340
with wind slab and storm slab, they're going to clear it out ahead

602
00:27:37,340 --> 00:27:38,340
of you.

603
00:27:38,340 --> 00:27:39,340
It's not a guarantee.

604
00:27:39,340 --> 00:27:42,340
It's just much more likely that the first person would encounter

605
00:27:42,340 --> 00:27:44,340
the problem, kick it off.

606
00:27:44,340 --> 00:27:48,340
And then the people behind them are less likely to.

607
00:27:48,340 --> 00:27:49,340
So what would happen?

608
00:27:49,340 --> 00:27:50,340
Let's just say this.

609
00:27:50,340 --> 00:27:52,340
What happens to our group?

610
00:27:52,340 --> 00:27:58,340
If we ride that first pitch and, you know, we, we get to our,

611
00:27:58,340 --> 00:28:00,340
our low risk regroup zones.

612
00:28:00,340 --> 00:28:03,340
Let's just call it like some old growth trees, like a little island.

613
00:28:03,340 --> 00:28:04,340
Yep.

614
00:28:04,340 --> 00:28:07,340
And then the last person coming down triggers something like they

615
00:28:07,340 --> 00:28:09,340
don't get hit. They get out of the way. They're good.

616
00:28:09,340 --> 00:28:11,340
Then what's our move for that next pitch?

617
00:28:11,340 --> 00:28:13,340
Oh, and they just triggered something.

618
00:28:13,340 --> 00:28:17,340
I mean, hopefully we're in the, in the.

619
00:28:17,340 --> 00:28:18,340
Is that like call of heli?

620
00:28:18,340 --> 00:28:20,340
Like, is that like what you're talking about?

621
00:28:20,340 --> 00:28:23,340
Like, what do we do that? I mean, it's a tough call,

622
00:28:23,340 --> 00:28:26,340
but I've been in a situation before in Chomany where it was a,

623
00:28:26,340 --> 00:28:28,340
a moderate day.

624
00:28:28,340 --> 00:28:32,340
And we had skied steep powder all day, like steep cool ours.

625
00:28:32,340 --> 00:28:34,340
And I was with a couple other.

626
00:28:34,340 --> 00:28:39,340
I FMGA guides and the world free ride leader on a snowboard.

627
00:28:39,340 --> 00:28:41,340
So it's a really strong group.

628
00:28:41,340 --> 00:28:43,340
But when we went up the midi,

629
00:28:43,340 --> 00:28:46,340
there was way more snow than we thought it was super light and it

630
00:28:46,340 --> 00:28:48,340
had been really wind affected.

631
00:28:48,340 --> 00:28:53,340
And so there was, I would say a meter 20 a meter 30 of snow.

632
00:28:53,340 --> 00:28:56,340
And it was incredibly sketchy.

633
00:28:56,340 --> 00:28:58,340
And we were like, whoa, okay,

634
00:28:58,340 --> 00:29:01,340
let's just ski a mellow line down the glacier.

635
00:29:01,340 --> 00:29:02,340
And as we get lower,

636
00:29:02,340 --> 00:29:05,340
should be less wind affected and more reasonable.

637
00:29:05,340 --> 00:29:09,340
Well, we got lower and it actually got worse.

638
00:29:09,340 --> 00:29:12,340
And we were just kicking off avalanches left and right on any

639
00:29:12,340 --> 00:29:14,340
slope, steep enough to slide.

640
00:29:14,340 --> 00:29:18,340
And they were relatively small slopes and we're like, okay,

641
00:29:18,340 --> 00:29:21,340
all right, let's just ski cut close to the roll.

642
00:29:21,340 --> 00:29:23,340
And it would trigger below us.

643
00:29:23,340 --> 00:29:24,340
And then we'd ski the pitch.

644
00:29:24,340 --> 00:29:26,340
But at some point I was like, Hey guys,

645
00:29:26,340 --> 00:29:29,340
this is actually totally different than we thought it's conditions

646
00:29:29,340 --> 00:29:32,340
are getting less stable, not more stable.

647
00:29:32,340 --> 00:29:35,340
It's actually more wind affected the lower we go.

648
00:29:35,340 --> 00:29:37,340
I've never seen this happen before.

649
00:29:37,340 --> 00:29:39,340
It's clearly not moderate danger.

650
00:29:39,340 --> 00:29:41,340
I'd say it's more like high danger.

651
00:29:41,340 --> 00:29:44,340
And we're going to get to a choke point where it's going to get

652
00:29:44,340 --> 00:29:48,340
too steep and we're not going to be able to go any further.

653
00:29:48,340 --> 00:29:51,340
Unless conditions miraculously turned around.

654
00:29:51,340 --> 00:29:54,340
So our options will be called to Helley or dig in for the night.

655
00:29:54,340 --> 00:29:59,340
And so as we got to the rollover where I got to really steep

656
00:29:59,340 --> 00:30:02,340
terrain, I was like, we got to stop here.

657
00:30:02,340 --> 00:30:04,340
And we're stuck.

658
00:30:04,340 --> 00:30:06,340
And so we called the Helley and they said, Hey,

659
00:30:06,340 --> 00:30:07,340
we can't come get you right now.

660
00:30:07,340 --> 00:30:09,340
The conditions have been really surprising today.

661
00:30:09,340 --> 00:30:13,340
And we're responding to a lot of avalanche rescues right now.

662
00:30:13,340 --> 00:30:15,340
You may have to dig in for the night.

663
00:30:15,340 --> 00:30:18,340
And we were like, okay, we've got our space blanket,

664
00:30:18,340 --> 00:30:21,340
baby sacks and extra puffy coats.

665
00:30:21,340 --> 00:30:23,340
It'll suck, but it'll be okay.

666
00:30:23,340 --> 00:30:26,340
And so we were just about to do that.

667
00:30:26,340 --> 00:30:30,340
When my colleague was like, Hey, let me just stomp this at the

668
00:30:30,340 --> 00:30:32,340
whole bowl rip.

669
00:30:32,340 --> 00:30:34,340
It's like a deep.

670
00:30:34,340 --> 00:30:35,340
No way.

671
00:30:35,340 --> 00:30:38,340
Because we could see the hot where we were trying to get to.

672
00:30:38,340 --> 00:30:40,340
But we just couldn't get there.

673
00:30:40,340 --> 00:30:44,340
And so it was so extreme, the wind loading that we were standing

674
00:30:44,340 --> 00:30:48,340
on blown out old moguls.

675
00:30:48,340 --> 00:30:52,340
And so on one ski, he was on a mogul like from earlier in the week

676
00:30:52,340 --> 00:30:53,340
and on the other,

677
00:30:53,340 --> 00:30:57,340
triggered the avalanche, which was about four to five feet deep

678
00:30:57,340 --> 00:31:00,340
because it was so wind loaded.

679
00:31:00,340 --> 00:31:02,340
And the whole thing ripped and we're like, well,

680
00:31:02,340 --> 00:31:07,340
I guess we can ski to the hut now because there was no snow left.

681
00:31:07,340 --> 00:31:11,340
So that I will say was just dumb luck and I wouldn't advise

682
00:31:11,340 --> 00:31:14,340
anyone to try to take that kind of risk.

683
00:31:14,340 --> 00:31:17,340
And then right as we got to the hut, the hell he comes in and

684
00:31:17,340 --> 00:31:19,340
he's like, I thought you said you guys couldn't get to the hut

685
00:31:19,340 --> 00:31:21,340
and we're like, take a look at that slide.

686
00:31:21,340 --> 00:31:24,340
We couldn't, but then we got lucky that we were able to trigger it

687
00:31:24,340 --> 00:31:28,340
with one ski on a mogul and one ski just barely touching the wind

688
00:31:28,340 --> 00:31:29,340
slab.

689
00:31:29,340 --> 00:31:31,340
It was so hypersensitive.

690
00:31:31,340 --> 00:31:34,340
And wow, especially that thick of a slab, man.

691
00:31:34,340 --> 00:31:35,340
That's crazy.

692
00:31:35,340 --> 00:31:38,340
Oh yeah, it was some of the most extreme anomaly conditions I'd

693
00:31:38,340 --> 00:31:42,340
ever seen because we've been skiing steep lines all day around

694
00:31:42,340 --> 00:31:45,340
the valley and there was no wind slab whatsoever.

695
00:31:45,340 --> 00:31:48,340
It was remarkable.

696
00:31:48,340 --> 00:31:49,340
And those unique.

697
00:31:49,340 --> 00:31:53,340
Well, hey, well, I kind of, I mean, this isn't exactly in that

698
00:31:53,340 --> 00:31:56,340
vein, but it sort of trends this direction, which is,

699
00:31:56,340 --> 00:32:00,340
what are some tips for traveling if you're in a place that you

700
00:32:00,340 --> 00:32:04,340
know is pretty highly traveled by many different groups and

701
00:32:04,340 --> 00:32:08,340
different areas, but kind of all in the same zone.

702
00:32:08,340 --> 00:32:13,340
Like what are things we want to look out for?

703
00:32:13,340 --> 00:32:16,340
Like obviously people bring something down on top of you.

704
00:32:16,340 --> 00:32:17,340
Okay.

705
00:32:17,340 --> 00:32:21,340
Like if you see people up above you, you want to make sure that

706
00:32:21,340 --> 00:32:24,340
you're like out of out of there, run out zone.

707
00:32:24,340 --> 00:32:25,340
Oh yeah.

708
00:32:25,340 --> 00:32:27,340
And we want to make sure we don't kick off anything on other

709
00:32:27,340 --> 00:32:28,340
people below us.

710
00:32:28,340 --> 00:32:31,340
And that can be pretty tough when there's competition for

711
00:32:31,340 --> 00:32:36,340
resources and particularly if you're in a crowded area that's

712
00:32:36,340 --> 00:32:39,340
off pieced where you've got lots of people coming off the lift

713
00:32:39,340 --> 00:32:44,340
can be really tough to be like, Hey, I don't want to be responsible

714
00:32:44,340 --> 00:32:46,340
for getting someone below me avalanche.

715
00:32:46,340 --> 00:32:50,340
I'm going to wait because there's more people coming in and they

716
00:32:50,340 --> 00:32:51,340
may not wait for you.

717
00:32:51,340 --> 00:32:54,340
So in that case, it's probably terrain selection.

718
00:32:54,340 --> 00:32:59,340
If it's kind of sketchy out and there's lots of people around.

719
00:32:59,340 --> 00:33:00,340
I don't want to be there.

720
00:33:00,340 --> 00:33:01,340
I don't want to be there.

721
00:33:01,340 --> 00:33:04,340
I don't want to get hit from above and I really don't want to hit

722
00:33:04,340 --> 00:33:05,340
anybody below me.

723
00:33:05,340 --> 00:33:10,340
So we might consciously choose to go somewhere else.

724
00:33:10,340 --> 00:33:15,340
So basically the only, the only hot tip for that one is, is just

725
00:33:15,340 --> 00:33:17,340
choose your terrain wisely.

726
00:33:17,340 --> 00:33:18,340
Yeah.

727
00:33:18,340 --> 00:33:20,340
Try to be out of sync with other people.

728
00:33:20,340 --> 00:33:23,340
Let's, let's wrap this one up with some key takeaways from people.

729
00:33:23,340 --> 00:33:25,340
I've got one more for the downhill.

730
00:33:25,340 --> 00:33:26,340
Oh, great.

731
00:33:26,340 --> 00:33:30,340
Oftentimes if you're skiing in like say, thick old growth forest,

732
00:33:30,340 --> 00:33:33,340
like you said, you may not have real good visual.

733
00:33:33,340 --> 00:33:38,340
So making sure when you're in the forest that you pick your

734
00:33:38,340 --> 00:33:44,340
regroup spots in a similar manner as you would in open bowl,

735
00:33:44,340 --> 00:33:48,340
meaning I'm not going to ski right below you and say, okay, Dave,

736
00:33:48,340 --> 00:33:49,340
I'm good.

737
00:33:49,340 --> 00:33:50,340
Come on down.

738
00:33:50,340 --> 00:33:53,340
I want to ski fall line and then kick out hockey stick to the

739
00:33:53,340 --> 00:33:54,340
side.

740
00:33:54,340 --> 00:33:57,340
And it might be tough for us to see each other.

741
00:33:57,340 --> 00:33:59,340
So radios are key.

742
00:33:59,340 --> 00:34:02,340
The other thing that can be really helpful is when you're an old

743
00:34:02,340 --> 00:34:05,340
growth tree strand, do you want to be on the uphill side of the

744
00:34:05,340 --> 00:34:08,340
tree or the downhill side of the tree?

745
00:34:08,340 --> 00:34:10,340
I think you want to be on the uphill, right?

746
00:34:10,340 --> 00:34:11,340
Cause technically you want to get pinned.

747
00:34:11,340 --> 00:34:12,340
Yeah.

748
00:34:12,340 --> 00:34:14,340
It's better to get pinned than to get flushed.

749
00:34:14,340 --> 00:34:19,340
But ideally what you'd have is a copes of old growth trees above

750
00:34:19,340 --> 00:34:21,340
you that would help deflect any avalanche debris.

751
00:34:21,340 --> 00:34:26,340
If you're not out in line of fire and a couple of really big

752
00:34:26,340 --> 00:34:27,340
trees below you.

753
00:34:27,340 --> 00:34:30,340
So you're pinned and you can get swept away.

754
00:34:30,340 --> 00:34:34,340
So you never want to select the first tree.

755
00:34:34,340 --> 00:34:38,340
If there's a bit of a clearing, you want to be two or three trees

756
00:34:38,340 --> 00:34:41,340
in there to avoid that.

757
00:34:41,340 --> 00:34:43,340
Ideally taking the brunt of a slide.

758
00:34:43,340 --> 00:34:44,340
Ideally.

759
00:34:44,340 --> 00:34:48,340
And when you're in a group, I sometimes have to be a little bit

760
00:34:48,340 --> 00:34:52,340
of a tree Nazi and whack my clients with a pole and be like,

761
00:34:52,340 --> 00:34:57,340
Hey, you need to get right up to that tree on the uphill side and

762
00:34:57,340 --> 00:34:59,340
be like there to hug it.

763
00:34:59,340 --> 00:35:02,340
Because I don't think this avalanche is going to break.

764
00:35:02,340 --> 00:35:03,340
But guess what?

765
00:35:03,340 --> 00:35:06,340
No one ever thought they were going to get avalanched and plenty

766
00:35:06,340 --> 00:35:09,340
of people do get avalanche in the forest.

767
00:35:09,340 --> 00:35:12,340
So we need to be adding our risk treatments.

768
00:35:12,340 --> 00:35:16,340
So we're going to ski one at a time, get out of line of fire with

769
00:35:16,340 --> 00:35:20,340
our hockey stick, be on the uphill side of some very large

770
00:35:20,340 --> 00:35:24,340
old growth trees and hopefully have a bunch of trees above us to

771
00:35:24,340 --> 00:35:26,340
deflect any snow.

772
00:35:26,340 --> 00:35:31,340
And everybody needs to get on board and grab their tree and be

773
00:35:31,340 --> 00:35:34,340
like a big hug a bowl tree so that hug,

774
00:35:34,340 --> 00:35:37,340
are right up against the tree because you wouldn't want your

775
00:35:37,340 --> 00:35:39,340
tails up against the tree because if you get flushed,

776
00:35:39,340 --> 00:35:42,340
you'll just get spun out of there and you're gone.

777
00:35:42,340 --> 00:35:43,340
Right.

778
00:35:43,340 --> 00:35:45,340
You want to be like, here's the tree.

779
00:35:45,340 --> 00:35:46,340
Here's me.

780
00:35:46,340 --> 00:35:49,340
Yeah, I'm right here or in like some branches to hold on to

781
00:35:49,340 --> 00:35:50,340
ideally as well.

782
00:35:50,340 --> 00:35:54,340
Why, you know, I think there's a misconception that skiing in

783
00:35:54,340 --> 00:35:55,340
the trees is safer.

784
00:35:55,340 --> 00:35:56,340
Sure.

785
00:35:56,340 --> 00:36:00,340
And isn't it really, I'm sure you can probably elaborate on this,

786
00:36:00,340 --> 00:36:04,340
but my understanding is that the only reason or the only time

787
00:36:04,340 --> 00:36:07,340
that's true when it means it's more unlikely to slide is when

788
00:36:07,340 --> 00:36:12,340
trees are so thick that you're getting those bombs pretty much

789
00:36:12,340 --> 00:36:13,340
dropping.

790
00:36:13,340 --> 00:36:14,340
Yeah, that's right.

791
00:36:14,340 --> 00:36:17,340
And consistently that it, it bombs out that weak layer,

792
00:36:17,340 --> 00:36:22,340
but if it's thin enough to ski in a fun way with sort of any

793
00:36:22,340 --> 00:36:26,340
velocity, that means that there's not that consistent

794
00:36:26,340 --> 00:36:28,340
breakage of that weak layer.

795
00:36:28,340 --> 00:36:29,340
Right.

796
00:36:29,340 --> 00:36:30,340
Yeah, you're real close.

797
00:36:30,340 --> 00:36:31,340
Let me clear it up.

798
00:36:31,340 --> 00:36:36,340
So when people say, hey, let's ski in the trees, oftentimes that

799
00:36:36,340 --> 00:36:39,340
means a variety of things to people, meaning, hey,

800
00:36:39,340 --> 00:36:42,340
I can't see so well because it's new can snow today.

801
00:36:42,340 --> 00:36:45,340
Like let's have a couple of Christmas trees, Charlie Brown Christmas

802
00:36:45,340 --> 00:36:48,340
trees to mark off a visually that does not help you.

803
00:36:48,340 --> 00:36:52,340
In fact, those are just obstacles to get pushed into and broken up

804
00:36:52,340 --> 00:36:53,340
with.

805
00:36:53,340 --> 00:36:56,340
So we've got a spectrum of a wide open glade.

806
00:36:56,340 --> 00:37:02,340
Not so great to old growth forest where you have to be an expert

807
00:37:02,340 --> 00:37:04,340
rider to ski through.

808
00:37:04,340 --> 00:37:05,340
That's pretty good.

809
00:37:05,340 --> 00:37:09,340
And then super tight trees that are almost that are basically

810
00:37:09,340 --> 00:37:10,340
impassable.

811
00:37:10,340 --> 00:37:15,340
If it's impassable to skiers and snowboarders, it's highly

812
00:37:15,340 --> 00:37:18,340
unlikely that that slope can ever slide.

813
00:37:18,340 --> 00:37:22,340
It's just so broken up by the trees that you can't get a

814
00:37:22,340 --> 00:37:23,340
cohesive slab.

815
00:37:23,340 --> 00:37:25,340
I think of like a birthday cake.

816
00:37:25,340 --> 00:37:29,340
Those are slabs and they stick together.

817
00:37:29,340 --> 00:37:32,340
You got cake icing and then cake layer.

818
00:37:32,340 --> 00:37:36,340
You know, if that slab tries to break off in super tight trees

819
00:37:36,340 --> 00:37:39,340
that are too tight for me to ride through, it just can't really

820
00:37:39,340 --> 00:37:42,340
hold together and fail all together.

821
00:37:42,340 --> 00:37:45,340
And then when you're dealing with an old growth forest that

822
00:37:45,340 --> 00:37:50,340
requires expert riders to ski through, it's wide enough for the

823
00:37:50,340 --> 00:37:54,340
expert to have a lot of fun and open enough.

824
00:37:54,340 --> 00:37:58,340
But like you said, the tree bombs break up those week layers.

825
00:37:58,340 --> 00:38:01,340
And we experienced that last week when it was super sketchy out

826
00:38:01,340 --> 00:38:03,340
and we were able to remotely trigger from the flaps three

827
00:38:03,340 --> 00:38:05,340
avalanches.

828
00:38:05,340 --> 00:38:08,340
But when we were in the old growth forest, no signs of

829
00:38:08,340 --> 00:38:11,340
instability whatsoever, not even on the road cuts that were

830
00:38:11,340 --> 00:38:14,340
like 45 degrees, we thought for sure we'd pop them off.

831
00:38:14,340 --> 00:38:16,340
It was super sketchy.

832
00:38:16,340 --> 00:38:20,340
We were like 500 meters from the zone where it went from

833
00:38:20,340 --> 00:38:23,340
considerable where we were to high danger.

834
00:38:23,340 --> 00:38:25,340
I mean, so it's really touchy out there.

835
00:38:25,340 --> 00:38:29,340
And because of all the tree bombs like you described, we couldn't

836
00:38:29,340 --> 00:38:33,340
see any signs of instability and we toured for probably about

837
00:38:33,340 --> 00:38:35,340
five kilometers through that forest.

838
00:38:35,340 --> 00:38:39,340
The other factors that come into play are the branches

839
00:38:39,340 --> 00:38:43,340
inhibit surface or so we're not going to see the frost hit the

840
00:38:43,340 --> 00:38:45,340
ground hit the snowpack.

841
00:38:45,340 --> 00:38:48,340
It's kind of like if you put a blanket over your windshield,

842
00:38:48,340 --> 00:38:53,340
you know, the frost just can't get to those bottom layers.

843
00:38:53,340 --> 00:38:55,340
And so it doesn't end up in the snowpack.

844
00:38:55,340 --> 00:38:58,340
And then the other thing it prevents is wind slabs from

845
00:38:58,340 --> 00:38:59,340
forming.

846
00:38:59,340 --> 00:39:01,340
You just don't get them in the deep forest.

847
00:39:01,340 --> 00:39:05,340
So that would be my optimal place to ski to maximize skier

848
00:39:05,340 --> 00:39:08,340
enjoyment because we're not skiing when the loaded snow

849
00:39:08,340 --> 00:39:09,340
windslap.

850
00:39:09,340 --> 00:39:14,340
And it's much, much safer often because the weak layers are

851
00:39:14,340 --> 00:39:17,340
broken up by the tree bombs.

852
00:39:17,340 --> 00:39:20,340
But if it's a wide open glade that say an intermediate skier

853
00:39:20,340 --> 00:39:21,340
could ride.

854
00:39:21,340 --> 00:39:22,340
Whoa.

855
00:39:22,340 --> 00:39:26,340
I'm going to think long and hard about that because now that

856
00:39:26,340 --> 00:39:30,340
slope is much more dangerous than a wide open smooth slope

857
00:39:30,340 --> 00:39:35,340
if you get avalanched on a wide open smooth planar slope,

858
00:39:35,340 --> 00:39:40,340
your likelihood of surviving in an avalanche goes up compared to

859
00:39:40,340 --> 00:39:42,340
crashing through a whole bunch of trees.

860
00:39:42,340 --> 00:39:44,340
Yeah, that makes sense.

861
00:39:44,340 --> 00:39:47,340
Rather getting break through a forest.

862
00:39:47,340 --> 00:39:50,340
So there's one more strategy that comes in handy for skiing in

863
00:39:50,340 --> 00:39:51,340
the forest.

864
00:39:51,340 --> 00:39:53,340
And that's the leapfrog.

865
00:39:53,340 --> 00:39:59,340
So I might ski to the rollover so I can see my team above me and

866
00:39:59,340 --> 00:40:02,340
I can see my team all the way below me.

867
00:40:02,340 --> 00:40:05,340
Whereas at the top, once the skier goes over that rollover,

868
00:40:05,340 --> 00:40:07,340
they lose contact with him.

869
00:40:07,340 --> 00:40:09,340
So I'll say, hey, I'm out of the line of fire.

870
00:40:09,340 --> 00:40:12,340
I did my hockey stick, but I can see the top and the bottom of

871
00:40:12,340 --> 00:40:13,340
the run.

872
00:40:13,340 --> 00:40:15,340
I'm going to call my team in one at a time on the radio.

873
00:40:15,340 --> 00:40:17,340
Radio's are pretty key.

874
00:40:17,340 --> 00:40:19,340
I'll be like, okay, Dave, come on in.

875
00:40:19,340 --> 00:40:22,340
You roll in all the way to the bottom and do your hockey stick

876
00:40:22,340 --> 00:40:23,340
at the bottom.

877
00:40:23,340 --> 00:40:26,340
And I'll be the air traffic controller when I see Dave's in

878
00:40:26,340 --> 00:40:29,340
this low risk regroup zone.

879
00:40:29,340 --> 00:40:31,340
I'll send the next runner.

880
00:40:31,340 --> 00:40:34,340
So the main takeaway of this whole thing is radios are key.

881
00:40:34,340 --> 00:40:35,340
Yes.

882
00:40:35,340 --> 00:40:38,340
I can't believe there were decades where I skied without him.

883
00:40:38,340 --> 00:40:40,340
I mean, that was just nuts.

884
00:40:40,340 --> 00:40:42,340
What did you do before?

885
00:40:42,340 --> 00:40:44,340
I mean, we're going to go off on a tangent here, but.

886
00:40:44,340 --> 00:40:47,340
Waving with poles and people be like, what?

887
00:40:47,340 --> 00:40:48,340
And yelling.

888
00:40:48,340 --> 00:40:50,340
I mean, it just doesn't work.

889
00:40:50,340 --> 00:40:53,340
And you know, the thing that changed my mind was I was doing my

890
00:40:53,340 --> 00:40:54,340
French recyclage.

891
00:40:54,340 --> 00:40:57,340
So if you're a French guide, every six years you do your

892
00:40:57,340 --> 00:41:00,340
retraining and they had some consultants who came in and said,

893
00:41:00,340 --> 00:41:03,340
Hey, we work with all kinds of high risk professions.

894
00:41:03,340 --> 00:41:07,340
And that might be emergency medical services, helicopter rescue

895
00:41:07,340 --> 00:41:11,340
teams, military firefighters and you mountain gods are the only

896
00:41:11,340 --> 00:41:16,340
group that we work with that don't have headphones or don't have a

897
00:41:16,340 --> 00:41:18,340
radio to communicate.

898
00:41:18,340 --> 00:41:20,340
Why is that?

899
00:41:20,340 --> 00:41:22,340
And we all.

900
00:41:22,340 --> 00:41:26,340
And I just thought about it was like, uh, cause it's like one more

901
00:41:26,340 --> 00:41:29,340
thing to hassle with and it's kind of heavy and I have to keep

902
00:41:29,340 --> 00:41:32,340
the batteries charged, but I didn't really have a good reason.

903
00:41:32,340 --> 00:41:35,340
And I don't think there is a good reason except.

904
00:41:35,340 --> 00:41:37,340
You know, it's just a little bit annoying and it's one more

905
00:41:37,340 --> 00:41:39,340
piece of kit to faff around with.

906
00:41:39,340 --> 00:41:41,340
Um, but.

907
00:41:41,340 --> 00:41:43,340
You know, it's a small price to pay for the benefits, particularly

908
00:41:43,340 --> 00:41:45,340
if you're trying to coordinate a rescue.

909
00:41:45,340 --> 00:41:48,340
Let's say I'm at the bottom, the teams on the top and the

910
00:41:48,340 --> 00:41:50,340
buried victims in the middle trying to coordinate what we're

911
00:41:50,340 --> 00:41:53,340
going to do. It's almost impossible if we have to scream in

912
00:41:53,340 --> 00:41:54,340
each other.

913
00:41:54,340 --> 00:41:55,340
Yeah, true.

914
00:41:55,340 --> 00:41:57,340
That's so crazy to think about.

915
00:41:57,340 --> 00:41:59,340
I don't think I've ever.

916
00:41:59,340 --> 00:42:02,340
Like I think radios have always been a part of.

917
00:42:02,340 --> 00:42:05,340
My back country experience.

918
00:42:05,340 --> 00:42:07,340
Well, maybe like working with.

919
00:42:07,340 --> 00:42:09,340
Good ones making with film crews.

920
00:42:09,340 --> 00:42:12,340
You have to coordinate and you're just like, we're not going to use

921
00:42:12,340 --> 00:42:15,340
pole waving to try to coordinate a film shoot, let alone an

922
00:42:15,340 --> 00:42:16,340
avalanche.

923
00:42:16,340 --> 00:42:19,340
Yeah, well that's, that's, that is truly ridiculous when you're

924
00:42:19,340 --> 00:42:20,340
like, go.

925
00:42:20,340 --> 00:42:21,340
And then they're like, why?

926
00:42:21,340 --> 00:42:22,340
And you're like ready.

927
00:42:22,340 --> 00:42:23,340
And they're like rolling.

928
00:42:23,340 --> 00:42:24,340
Like go.

929
00:42:24,340 --> 00:42:25,340
And then you're like dropping.

930
00:42:25,340 --> 00:42:26,340
Yeah.

931
00:42:26,340 --> 00:42:27,340
No, I'm not ready.

932
00:42:27,340 --> 00:42:28,340
Go.

933
00:42:28,340 --> 00:42:31,340
You're ready. Like, I mean, can you imagine a bunch of

934
00:42:31,340 --> 00:42:36,340
firefighters or, uh, you know, the, the EMTs that roll up in the

935
00:42:36,340 --> 00:42:39,340
ambulance, not having radio contact or the police?

936
00:42:39,340 --> 00:42:41,340
I mean, that is just.

937
00:42:41,340 --> 00:42:43,340
No, it's like a logistical nightmare.

938
00:42:43,340 --> 00:42:44,340
Yeah, exactly.

939
00:42:44,340 --> 00:42:45,340
Exactly.

940
00:42:45,340 --> 00:42:46,340
Yeah.

941
00:42:46,340 --> 00:42:51,340
What is the new stand for situation normal all fucked up?

942
00:42:51,340 --> 00:42:57,340
That's what it is trying to coordinate a group of five on a

943
00:42:57,340 --> 00:43:00,340
big mountain face without radios.

944
00:43:00,340 --> 00:43:01,340
Yeah.

945
00:43:01,340 --> 00:43:04,340
The situation might be normal, but it is all fucked up.

946
00:43:04,340 --> 00:43:05,340
Yeah.

947
00:43:05,340 --> 00:43:07,340
That sounds tricky.

948
00:43:07,340 --> 00:43:09,340
That sounds V tricky.

949
00:43:09,340 --> 00:43:12,340
Uh, I'm glad we're not doing that anymore.

950
00:43:12,340 --> 00:43:14,340
I like my radio.

951
00:43:14,340 --> 00:43:15,340
Yeah.

952
00:43:15,340 --> 00:43:17,340
I'm glad we're not doing that anymore.

953
00:43:17,340 --> 00:43:18,340
Um, all right, man.

954
00:43:18,340 --> 00:43:22,340
Well, let's, uh, let's, let's wrap this one up before it gets too

955
00:43:22,340 --> 00:43:23,340
long.

956
00:43:23,340 --> 00:43:24,340
All right.

957
00:43:24,340 --> 00:43:26,340
What do you want to, uh, leave?

958
00:43:26,340 --> 00:43:27,340
You want to give people, right?

959
00:43:27,340 --> 00:43:29,340
Here's your actionable advice.

960
00:43:29,340 --> 00:43:30,340
Travel techniques.

961
00:43:30,340 --> 00:43:34,340
Don't trump bad terrain decisions.

962
00:43:34,340 --> 00:43:38,340
And at some point in your career, you may need to call for a chopper

963
00:43:38,340 --> 00:43:43,340
or dig in for the night instead of push through and be really wary.

964
00:43:43,340 --> 00:43:45,340
And then you're like, oh, screw it.

965
00:43:45,340 --> 00:43:46,340
We'll just go one at a time.

966
00:43:46,340 --> 00:43:47,340
It'll be fine.

967
00:43:47,340 --> 00:43:48,340
No, no, no, no, no.

968
00:43:48,340 --> 00:43:51,340
Cause one person avalanche is way too many.

969
00:43:51,340 --> 00:43:55,340
And then anytime we're in avalanche terrain, we want to continue to

970
00:43:55,340 --> 00:43:57,340
add our risk treatments.

971
00:43:57,340 --> 00:44:01,340
So if we're going on the uphill and oh, we're doing kick turns.

972
00:44:01,340 --> 00:44:03,340
Hey, we're in avalanche terrain.

973
00:44:03,340 --> 00:44:06,340
Or ideally just a little bit before you in avalanche train.

974
00:44:06,340 --> 00:44:09,340
We're going to spread out to lessen our impact on the slope.

975
00:44:09,340 --> 00:44:13,340
And then it's only like 300 pounds bouncing up and down instead of say,

976
00:44:13,340 --> 00:44:14,340
1500 pounds.

977
00:44:14,340 --> 00:44:17,340
And we have to be real careful on the switchbacks that we maintain that

978
00:44:17,340 --> 00:44:19,340
school bus distance.

979
00:44:19,340 --> 00:44:23,340
So that our stress bubbles don't overlap.

980
00:44:23,340 --> 00:44:27,340
Um, and then on the downhill, ideally we're riding one at a time in avalanche

981
00:44:27,340 --> 00:44:28,340
train.

982
00:44:28,340 --> 00:44:33,340
And we're using our terrain choices to look for a smooth planer slope.

983
00:44:33,340 --> 00:44:35,340
That's survivable.

984
00:44:35,340 --> 00:44:37,340
And then we do our hockey stick at the bottom.

985
00:44:37,340 --> 00:44:39,340
So we're out of the line of fire, hopefully.

986
00:44:39,340 --> 00:44:44,340
And ideally if we can find a raised ridge or some old growth trees,

987
00:44:44,340 --> 00:44:47,340
um, that's a much lower risk option.

988
00:44:47,340 --> 00:44:51,340
And there's a tension between being far enough out of the run out zone for

989
00:44:51,340 --> 00:44:55,340
the days anticipated avalanche size and being close enough to respond to

990
00:44:55,340 --> 00:44:56,340
your group.

991
00:44:56,340 --> 00:45:02,340
But you kind of have to go with, um, protecting the group members.

992
00:45:02,340 --> 00:45:06,340
Um, I think more emphasis on that because the worst case scenario is

993
00:45:06,340 --> 00:45:09,340
one person gets avalanche, but then five people are regrouped way too

994
00:45:09,340 --> 00:45:11,340
close and get smoked.

995
00:45:11,340 --> 00:45:12,340
Right.

996
00:45:12,340 --> 00:45:15,340
It's always, you would rather have people be a little further away,

997
00:45:15,340 --> 00:45:19,340
but be out of the run out zone so that they can come assist.

998
00:45:19,340 --> 00:45:20,340
Yeah.

999
00:45:20,340 --> 00:45:24,340
We want to have, we want to avoid that multiple burial scenario at all costs.

1000
00:45:24,340 --> 00:45:28,340
Um, and then we've got a couple of different techniques when we're in the

1001
00:45:28,340 --> 00:45:32,340
trees, we want to be protected above, but also a tree right below us.

1002
00:45:32,340 --> 00:45:36,340
That could pin us that we're real close and we're hugging it.

1003
00:45:36,340 --> 00:45:38,340
Uh, and it's our bindings are right up against the tree.

1004
00:45:38,340 --> 00:45:40,340
So we know we could spun out of there.

1005
00:45:40,340 --> 00:45:43,340
Um, leapfrogging can be a lot of fun when you've got to roll over or you're

1006
00:45:43,340 --> 00:45:45,340
in the forest with limited visibility.

1007
00:45:45,340 --> 00:45:49,340
Um, and that person who's air traffic control goes in the middle of the

1008
00:45:49,340 --> 00:45:51,340
slope and ideally off to the side.

1009
00:45:51,340 --> 00:45:53,340
So they're out of the line of fire.

1010
00:45:53,340 --> 00:45:59,340
Um, and then, uh, it's special cases when you're in really steep terrain,

1011
00:45:59,340 --> 00:46:03,340
instead of having the group come in above you, you would have them come in

1012
00:46:03,340 --> 00:46:04,340
below you with the hockey stick.

1013
00:46:04,340 --> 00:46:05,340
So you don't get sloughed out.

1014
00:46:05,340 --> 00:46:07,340
Well, heck yeah, man.

1015
00:46:07,340 --> 00:46:11,340
That was like the boom, boom, boom, boom, boom checklist of all of them.

1016
00:46:11,340 --> 00:46:12,340
Like right there.

1017
00:46:12,340 --> 00:46:15,340
There are plenty of times when we don't ski one at a time when we're out

1018
00:46:15,340 --> 00:46:18,340
riding together, but it's, if we're going to party ski,

1019
00:46:18,340 --> 00:46:21,340
it's cause we're out of on the street and we're like, let's go for it.

1020
00:46:21,340 --> 00:46:22,340
Yeah.

1021
00:46:22,340 --> 00:46:23,340
Right.

1022
00:46:23,340 --> 00:46:24,340
Below 30.

1023
00:46:24,340 --> 00:46:25,340
Yep.

1024
00:46:25,340 --> 00:46:29,340
Well, sweet man.

1025
00:46:29,340 --> 00:46:31,340
Uh, thank you for, thanks for hopping on this one.

1026
00:46:31,340 --> 00:46:35,340
I, uh, you know, even though we mostly ski tour together,

1027
00:46:35,340 --> 00:46:37,340
so like, I know a lot of this stuff,

1028
00:46:37,340 --> 00:46:41,340
it's still always interesting getting that extra layer of input when we're

1029
00:46:41,340 --> 00:46:42,340
not on the skin track.

1030
00:46:42,340 --> 00:46:46,340
I feel like I absorb this stuff a lot more than when I'm like cold and

1031
00:46:46,340 --> 00:46:51,340
sweaty and running around with camera gear and insert all these other

1032
00:46:51,340 --> 00:46:52,340
distractions.

1033
00:46:52,340 --> 00:46:53,340
Yeah.

1034
00:46:53,340 --> 00:46:55,340
And to be fair, when we're riding great powder,

1035
00:46:55,340 --> 00:46:59,340
it's pretty easy to forget this stuff cause it's quite a lot told me that.

1036
00:46:59,340 --> 00:47:00,340
That's true.

1037
00:47:00,340 --> 00:47:01,340
Yeah.

1038
00:47:01,340 --> 00:47:03,340
It's very easy to get excited about the, the Chowda.

1039
00:47:03,340 --> 00:47:04,340
Yeah.

1040
00:47:04,340 --> 00:47:05,340
Exactly.

1041
00:47:05,340 --> 00:47:06,340
All right, man.

1042
00:47:06,340 --> 00:47:08,340
Well, uh, great, great talking to you.

1043
00:47:08,340 --> 00:47:11,340
And, uh, I think we're wrapped up on this one.

1044
00:47:11,340 --> 00:47:12,340
I'll see you next week.

1045
00:47:12,340 --> 00:47:13,340
Okay.

1046
00:47:13,340 --> 00:47:14,340
I'll see you next week in the back country, Dave.

1047
00:47:14,340 --> 00:47:15,340
All right.

1048
00:47:15,340 --> 00:47:16,340
Peace out brother.

1049
00:47:16,340 --> 00:47:17,340
Bye bye.

1050
00:47:17,340 --> 00:47:20,340
Thank you so much for listening to all aspects.

1051
00:47:20,340 --> 00:47:23,340
If you like what we're doing here, please leave a rating and review.

1052
00:47:23,340 --> 00:47:26,340
It really is the best way to help others find the show.

1053
00:47:26,340 --> 00:47:29,340
Thanks again to our business daddy, Aspect Davi for making this show possible.

1054
00:47:29,340 --> 00:47:33,340
To learn more about how Aspect Davi is making avalanche safety simple, go to

1055
00:47:33,340 --> 00:47:34,340
aspectdavi.com.

1056
00:47:34,340 --> 00:47:38,340
If you want to use this powerful new tool on your next back country adventure,

1057
00:47:38,340 --> 00:47:42,340
simply download the app from the app store and enjoy 30 days free on them.

1058
00:47:42,340 --> 00:47:45,340
Lastly, special thanks to Ice Lab for helping us produce this show.

1059
00:47:45,340 --> 00:47:48,340
You guys rock and we couldn't do without you.

1060
00:47:48,340 --> 00:47:51,340
Thanks again for listening and we'll see you in the back country.