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Welcome to new episode of podcast
Understanding the Steel Friendship,

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produced by New Magazine,
supported by the U.S. Embassy.

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Today I have talked to Marija Pesic,
from Bor, member of the organisation

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Initiative for the City Development.
We have discussed what changed

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in the city of Bor since 2018,
when Chinese companies had

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taken over managing the existent
mines, along with opening new ones.

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I believe that Marija had offered
a comprehensive picture of what

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and in what way the citizens of
Bor accept or not the presence of

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Chinese company, so I am confident
that this conversation would give you

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better local perspective as to in
what way Chinese company has

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been perceived by the citizens of Bor.
So, you can follow us, as always,

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on Youtube Channel NM New Magazine,
audio format of this podcast is also

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available on Spotify, Deezer, Apple
podcast, and other relevant podcast

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platforms, and you can also
follow us on social networks,

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Instagram, TikTok and Facebook.
I trust you'll find this interview

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rather interesting, so stay
tuned for the next half an hour.

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Marija, welcome to the podcast
Understanding the Steel Friendship.

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Thank you.

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I am glad that you are with us
today, for all those who hadn't

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been in a position to meet with you,
or get to know about your activities,

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I want to disclose the reason
why we are going to talk today.

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You are coming from Bor,
you're an activist at heart,

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you represent organization Community
Development Association Bor (CDA Bor)

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so you are more than relevant
interlocutor for someone who wants

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to get to know the circumstances
of Chinese presence in Bor.

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We have discussed matters earlier
in informal meetings, and I believe

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that what you have to share with
the people is worth hearing as it

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can contribute to better understand
Chinese presence in this city.

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Prior to discussing Bor, and the mine
itself, I would like to begin with the

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question that I pose to all my guests
that are being hosted in our podcast,

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regarding the title of our podcast
Understanding the Steel Friendship.

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How do you perceive this phrase, does
it have a special meaning for you?

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When I hear phrase 'steel friendship',
first that comes to mind is that

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cooperation with China, and I think
how many people from the institute,

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from the media, students from abroad,
especially from western Europe, had

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contacted me for the last three years
asking what's Chinese impact presently

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and what has been going on in Bor.
So, since the Chinese came to town,

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the interest for it and economic
development in general have grown.

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As you said, since the coming
of the Chinese to Bor...

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Now, before we go back to 2018,
let's go further back, maybe for

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the whole century, Bor has been
a mining town for centuries, and

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it more or less totally depends on
the mining industry. -That's right.

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What was the situation like in general
prior to the Chinese taking over,

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that is, in the period prior to
the selling of the mine, and its

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privatization, was the situation
different compared to the period

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starting from 2018 onwards?
-Generally, it will be good to

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go way back in the past, given that
Bor is not, so to say, old settlement,

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it's actually a young town,
with a hundred-year-old history,

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which is mainly being perceived
through the mining industry...

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It was a mining colony
since its establishment.

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First, the Germans was there,
then the French, afterwards,

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we have taken over the mining,
experiencing a great prosperity,

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and when we started failing,
we came up with the terms

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'looking for a strategic partner',
or for the potential buyer of the

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whole complex, then Canadians and
Americans were present for a certain

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period of time, followed by Chinese
definitely coming back in 2018.

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They are present in Bor until present
day, now there is a big expansion

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as far as mining is concerned,
as beside the old mine,

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a new mine was opened in the Bor
mining complex, Cukaru Peki,

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which works with full steam.
As far as I gathered, presently,

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Upper Zone is in operation,
it is up to 2000 meters,

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it is being exploited already, so
they started exploiting Lower Zone.

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So, the exploitation goes
on a rather quick pace.

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Let's introduce people who are not
so familiar with the mining industry,

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they regard mining as a hole
from where ore is extracted...

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They are not far from the truth.
-That's right.

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We have an old mine, which is
known to us, as a base of RTB,

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from the ancient past, then
we have a new Cukaru Peki mine,

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which is been opened
recently, if I get it right.

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Well, yes, the bottom line is
that this was the main interest

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of the Chinese company,
when it entered Serbian market,

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and applied as a potential partner.
Namely, they bought the exploitation

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rights from the Canadians
for the Cukaru Peki mine,

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and this unfortunate RTB was
simply part of the deal,

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for which our government didn't
have a ready solution back then.

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It was done under condition that
they keep manpower, along with

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sticking to the salary amounts
for the next three years or so,

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with the fact that we accepted for
Chinese manpower to come and

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get employed within our mine.
Cukaru Peki is very rich in

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ultra-high-grade copper and gold
deposits, so it was very interesting

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to them, so they bought off the right
for exploitation and since 2018,

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they launched the opening of the new
mine, so it's now fully operational,

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despite the warning that this soil
is also quite rich in arsenic as well,

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they simply disregarded it,
and carried out excavations

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as it was the case in the old RTB,
with quite accelerated pace, though.

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So, now it is questionable whether
we would be able to exploit those

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resources for the next hundred years
as we did in the past in the old mine,

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or we will exhaust all resources
for the next 15-20 years.

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Then what? -No one has
answer to that question.

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When the issue of expanding that
mine is mentioned, the citizens of

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Bor have no information whatsoever,
as the policy of Chinese company is

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such that it does not share this kind
of information with Bor residents.

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This is a private company.

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Fine, but we should be driven
by the principles of transparent

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business operations, along
with free access to information...

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This is not characteristic for...
I suppose, in a cultural aspect,

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in the first place, and that is not
distinctive trait for Chinese

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companies. We witnessed it during
the preparation period, when they

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performed research operations
for the opening of the mine,

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there were Nevsun, Freeport,
they had headquarters in the city,

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they had info center, and the citizens
were able to go and ask about the

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development plans, how the mine
would further expand, citizens who

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intended to sell their property, knew
that they are situated on the soil

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that would become subject to
exploitation, they could go there,

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make arrangements with them.
I have to say that philosophy

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of Nevsun and Freeport was quite
different, in the sense of investing

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into the community, through a CSR
management, because they really

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made plans in the long run,
in the direction of diversification

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of local economy, which is not the
case with the Chinese company.

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I have to say that this is not
characteristic for the citizens

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of Bor either, given that the city
that is based on the mining industry,

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had never produced individuals
ready to take up some other business.

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Simply, under these circumstances,
when the new mine is opened,

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now Zijin Bor Copper Complex
employes some 6.000 people.

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So, directly or indirectly, we have
situation that 90 percent of Bor

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residents depends on mining industry.
-Not only Bor, but the whole region.

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Well, yes, the most important
economic activity takes place there,

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and according to our information,
people from other cities come to

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Bor to work here, considering
the deficit in the labor market

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of certain occupations, people move
and relocate, start to work and they

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will probably stay here
for a longer period of time.

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We will cover the issue of manpower
later, but now, I'd like to go back

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to 2018, we have a tendency to
accelerate economic development

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of the Republic of Serbia through
attracting foreign direct investments

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and as for the mine itself,
I believe that it faced with

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certain outstanding debt, amounting
to 350 million American Dollars,

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if I got it right...
-That's right.

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It was actually the first installment
when the Chinese bought of mine,

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repayment of the debt itself.
-Prior to that, one significant

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debt was waived,
just to remind you...

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That's the icing on the cake of
our responsible state business...

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Why I want to mention this?
When we take into account

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some other aspects, not only
from an activist point of view,

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but more from the economic
or foreign policy point of view,

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we see tendency of foreign trade
exchange between Serbia and China.

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Since 2018, we experience rather
continuous exponential growth of

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copper export from Serbia to China.
In fact, if we consider growth of

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export from Serbia to China,
we are exclusively talking about

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growing export of copper,
and what you mentioned

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in our conversation while
preparing for this interview,

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we are exactly exporting raw ore.
Did I get it right?

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Sure, we export raw ore,
rich in copper and gold.

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Those were city rumours, as far
as this new mine is concerned,

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that this concentrate has been
exported, but now, it is so obvious,

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so what they excavate is not
processed in the city itself

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where there are conditions for that,
but in the period when old smelter

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was not working, trucks full of
this raw ore were exported...

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No one thought of establishing
some subsidiary branches that

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would take care of processing,
as it was the case in the late

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RTB Bor, when the branches started
closing one after the other, until

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we were left with this an
economic corpse, called RTB,

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that was needed to be taken care of.
The Chinese find it in their interest,

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as the price of copper is still high
on the international market,

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and with them exploiting the site
with such accelerated dynamics,

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they could only make profit out of it.
If we look at it from some other

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higher instance, we see that salaries
of the employees haven't changed,

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some were even raised, despite the
fact that when the Chinese came,

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they complied with the provisions
of the contract that they cannot

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lower salaries for three years,
there were rumours that they

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would lay off some of employees,
that they would bring Chinese,

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but something like that
never happened.

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Salaries kept growing from year
to year, since their arrival.

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What seems to be important to me
is that you mentioned gold, which

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is not the initial association,
so did I get it right...

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We have a law that obliges party
that exploits certain site, to offer

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gold first to the country
where it is being excavated...

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Upon processing it,
I would say, yes...

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Only after it's being processed.
-So, it needs to be processed first.

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That's right, I think that in this
case, when we export raw ore,

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we don't have anything to sell,
we don't have the finished product.

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If someone has different information,
one can contact us via comments.

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Yes, I am not a lawyer,
and I use common sense...

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Fine, you've mentioned manpower.
You also said that the number of

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employees remained the same,
it even increased, in a way...

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You've also mentioned the possibility
of getting Chinese manpower.

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Is there larger number of
Chinese employees in Bor?

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Whether they are in the old or in
the new mine, or everywhere?

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They are everywhere...
-Everywhere? -Well, yes.

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With that purchase agreement,
I have read it long time ago,

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the state obliged to facilitate
coming of Chinese manpower,

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due to the need of expanding
business operations.

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They had come in larger numbers.
Currently, both companies are led

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by Chinese management, our citizens
kept some lower management positions,

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former employees, and there are
unofficial information as to how

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many Chinese employees
are there in Bor.

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According to our sources, that number
ranges between 10.000-12.000.

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There are more Chinese employees
in the new mine.

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Old mine mainly employs
local community members.

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Really, there are lots of them.
Namely, we have become

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accustomed to the fact that
the mine works 24/7.

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Without any interruptions, it has been
compared to Las Vegas, because of

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the light and everything else.
It is quite unbelievable at what

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pace the Chinese work in the mine.
There are lots of them, really.

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What seems to be characteristic is
that they have not assimilated with

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the local population,
they have their own ghettos.

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Maybe it's not right choice of word,
but... -You mean they have camps...

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Yes, they have camps, those are
settlements that they've designed

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for their needs, and when they go
out, they go to get groceries,

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they do not mix with local population,
so they lead a separate life there.

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Some of the work might have been
performed by the local population...

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However, right now, we are in
deficit, and on the other hand,

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it's the question of the salary ratio
and everything that goes with it...

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The rumour has it that the Chinese
are not being paid salaries on our

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bank accounts, but on their
bank accounts in China,

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00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,160
so it's practically questionable
whether they are registered at all.

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00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:10,760
Some of them have to be registered,
as the law prescribes it,

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residence must be registered, along
with other things, address, etc.

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So, it's disputable whether all of
them are practically registered.

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According to another unofficial
information, they take turns...

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That they come and go.
-I came across the agreement

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that our Ministry of Labour,
Employment Veteran and Social Affairs

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had signed I guess back in 2019,
maybe in 2018, but some time had

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passed by since then, that allows
Chinese workers to have status:

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Assigned to work, so you actually
never come under the auspices of

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the legislation of the Republic
of Serbia, you're assigned to work.

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Yes, assigned to work...
-To a five year period...

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This differs compared to agreements
we signed with other countries,

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00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,680
it is much shorter period of time.
-Yes, it is shorter.

219
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,800
I had an opportunity to work for
a short period of time for an

220
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,360
Australian company that
performed investigative work.

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00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:14,200
We had employed mainly Australians,
Mongolians, Filipinos, and as I had

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00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,640
been working on those operations,
I know that work assignment was

223
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,640
just a document which should be
submitted to our national service,

224
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,400
Police Directorate, etc.
Apart from that, lots of

225
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,920
other documentation needs
to be collected, until the moment

226
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,320
when you are forced, due to time
that someone had spent here,

227
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:41,000
to make work contract, as there are
in Serbia deficit for certain jobs,

228
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,480
such as drill workers and
some other more specific jobs.

229
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,880
So, this is unprecedented.
-Especially that period of time.

230
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,240
Fine. You've mentioned something
that I regard very important,

231
00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:54,480
this is so-called aggressive
exploitation, actually.

232
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,480
Excavations would be carried out,
sooner or later...

233
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:03,320
Is exploitation performed
according to Spatial Plan,

234
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,280
i.e. whether there are certain
influence on the local population,

235
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,080
are you facing with the situation
that drilling has come to your

236
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,040
doorstep, as is the case with
the village of Krivelj, which is

237
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:21,760
now quite critical... Or are there
certain strategic and systemic

238
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:27,320
approaches to solving the challenges
such as timely notice that allows

239
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,560
relocation in due time?
Namely, if you have built

240
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,520
a house some fifty years ago on
a terrain that intended for mining

241
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:39,400
even back then, you could be
blamed for that to a greater extent.

242
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,120
With good preparation period, those
problems could have been solved...

243
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,240
Is this issue being systematically
treated or not?

244
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,840
I would like to answer
with an anecdote.

245
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:56,760
These are the things we had the
opportunity to hear from our natives.

246
00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,720
When Bor started to develop and
construct, given that majority of

247
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,360
people back then came from other
places, looking for a better living.

248
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,320
They got jobs, etc. The city
had started to get on its feet,

249
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:16,520
and according to the plan, city zone
should be where now settlement is.

250
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,280
People from eastern Serbia
probably know what I'm talking about.

251
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,600
That part of land was designed
to build a settlement there.

252
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,400
It turned out that it is rather
tiresome to travel, so they

253
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,320
thought of relocating there,
it has been more convenient...

254
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,920
So, naturally, the city has been
built there, and now we have

255
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,960
our city green market right
below the smelter chimney.

256
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:50,880
This is direct result of planning.
As for strategic expansion of

257
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:57,120
the mining basin, there is a plan,
which is adopted, with the borders

258
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:04,360
of the basin being strictly specified,
but where the exploitation ends,

259
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,680
this is just another level,
as the impact keeps spreading.

260
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,280
The village of Krivelj was always
on the slopes of the mine.

261
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,840
Its residents were
always endangered.

262
00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,080
Throughout all these years,
there's no systematic solution

263
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:28,520
as to where to relocate those people.
Our local operations come down to

264
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:34,120
our talking to a small group of
people that is really jeopardized.

265
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,000
Those are people that have no
interest from the mine whatsoever,

266
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:42,720
they have only damage from it.
There are people that do not work

267
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,920
there, neither do their children,
they are reduced to agricultural

268
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:54,560
production in unfavorable conditions,
so they raise their voice against it,

269
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,280
questioning the way that
all this has been done.

270
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:03,840
The residents of Krivelj expect
city government to take care of

271
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,760
those people, of their survival,
relocation and all other stuff,

272
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,720
so we had couple of locations
where they could be relocated.

273
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:17,640
But as time passess by, the Chinese
are pushing a story of their own,

274
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,480
we come to the point where any
household depends on itself,

275
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,600
depending on the solution
that is individually brought,

276
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:30,520
and if it happens that the hole
had already knocked on the door,

277
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:32,840
you have to think what
are you going to do...

278
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,800
Then, we have situations that
people sell their properties,

279
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,040
at a very low price as there is some
ambiguity what is prescribed in the

280
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,160
Serbian law, so Chinese offer
much lower prices than what

281
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,240
has been prescribed by
the law and Tax Administration.

282
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:53,240
People have to find their way to
solve this problem individually,

283
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:58,120
where to go, where to relocate, what
kind of compensation will they get?

284
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:06,080
This is one of the most endangered
villages. But villages Ostrelj and

285
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,560
Slatina are slightly less endangered,
together with Metovnica...

286
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,480
Those villages are now endangered
with Cukaru Peki working at full speed.

287
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,440
Here, we also need some systemic
solution for further expansion.

288
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,440
For example, in Slatina, the basin
will expand till the center of village,

289
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,440
that does not concern any other
settlement, but what seems to be

290
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:35,360
true, air knows no boundaries,
so if we have polluted air and

291
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,800
groundwater pollution,
it's all somehow spreading.

292
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:45,760
Those are rural communities where
people are engaged in agriculture,

293
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,080
they have some kind of
agricultural production...

294
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:54,040
Right now, we see that no one
took care of how would the

295
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,160
accelerated exploitation, expansion
of the basin and everything else

296
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:06,560
look like. Some of them are in
a rather unenviable situation...

297
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:09,200
How shall I put it...

298
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:18,640
Readiness of the activists in town,
and people who are of the opinion

299
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,080
that some systemic solution
has to be found.

300
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,160
However, this can't be done by
a single family, or a single

301
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:32,000
activist organization, we need
consensus and critical mass

302
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,320
that would ask their superiors
to try to solve these problems.

303
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:39,960
Is there critical mass and just
as an additonal question,

304
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,360
and the introduction into what
I would like to ask you next...

305
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,160
Is there willingness to listen to
the problems announced by

306
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,000
activists but also individuals
that are personally jeopardized.

307
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:56,080
The reaction should come from those
that should protect the citizens,

308
00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,520
state administration,
local self-government,

309
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:04,840
people who could offer help in
finding some professional solution,

310
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:10,720
rather than treating the problem
from case fo case, as you said.

311
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:16,320
Solution on case to case basis
is convenient as there you have

312
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,640
no responsibility and you don't have
to deal with it in that manner.

313
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,800
City management did organize some
citizens' assemblies in Krivelj,

314
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:32,280
that were, at least, unpleasant.
City management then failed to

315
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,520
answer any of the questions
of the residents of Krivelj,

316
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:43,320
It all comes down to swears,
insults, blaming one another,

317
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,720
there is no constructive dialogue
to try to find a common solution.

318
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:56,760
Citizens and residents have their
hands tied, as you witness situation

319
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:03,880
that you've said that you don't
want to leave as you are a native,

320
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,240
you live there all your life.
Then, your next door neighbour

321
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,080
sells it to the Chinese, where
they are already present,

322
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,400
then the other neighbour sells
its property, then you are a kind

323
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,440
of an island and you are not only
undergoing pressure, but you're

324
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,080
not sure when they are going
to start drilling your property.

325
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,200
From the discussion with the locals,
we found out that things are being

326
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,040
dealt post-festum, that Chinese
enter certain locations and

327
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,720
then papers are being
dealt with afterwards.

328
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,960
Which is also unacceptable.
-Another anecdote that I've

329
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:46,080
came across goes like this:
when tailings are left on your land,

330
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:53,480
you sue the Chinese and win them
in court, they get a small fine,

331
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,440
along with demand to clean your
yard, however, your land has been

332
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,600
already contaminated to the extent
that you don't have anything else

333
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,040
to do but to sell it to Chinese,
and you do it for a pittance.

334
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,560
That's right. I have discussed things
lately with a friend of mine,

335
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:16,560
who turned down three offers
so far, she had land in Slatina,

336
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:22,600
they came with the first, then
with the second and third offer...

337
00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:26,600
Then they told her that she asked
for such an amount as if this is the

338
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,760
land of the first category and as if
they're going to take up agriculture.

339
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:35,120
Then she said that when they come
here to deal with agriculture, then

340
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:37,800
she will sell it to them
free of charge.

341
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,960
This is an interesting example. Some
people simply do not want to quit.

342
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,480
There is another thing that I wanted
to mention, unquestionable appeals

343
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,960
that one must treat the issue that
the environment must be protected.

344
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,280
In the course of our conversation
pertaining to other issues,

345
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:57,400
you've mentioned air,
you've mentioned water,

346
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,600
land devastation is de facto
the consequence of mining,

347
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,800
there is no point talking about
whether it exists or not,

348
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,240
was there any response on
the part of the interlocutors,

349
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:19,040
representatives of Chinese company,
regarding potential resolve of issues

350
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,200
that the activists point to,
that is your organization...

351
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,400
pertainig to air pollution,
or there's a century old

352
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:33,360
subsconscious mindset that
things stand as they are and

353
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,280
there isn't much that
we can do about it.

354
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,320
Well, yes, those were our last
atoms of energy engaged in the

355
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,200
intent to point out at the fact that
this doesn't have to be like that.

356
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,680
Simply, that we have to demand
introduction of new technologies,

357
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:59,080
aspiring towards so-called
Green Mining, so that we prevent

358
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:05,840
that the entire area in the radius
of I don't know how many kilometers

359
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,040
becomes completely contaminated
as Bor as an urban community,

360
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:17,000
exposed to such industrial impact,
is encompassed with a green ring,

361
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,160
those who love nature and who
visited those natural beauties

362
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,920
know that this is pristine nature,
so we appealed to the city

363
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:35,000
administration and Bor Mining
Institute as well as Faculty,

364
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,600
and in cooperation with them,
and through their findings,

365
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,040
we had insight into the data on
the level of air pollution primarily.

366
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,800
As far as land pollution is concerned,
people conducted individual research

367
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,840
which show that
the land is fully contaminated.

368
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,800
When it comes to the response of
relevant institutions, for instance,

369
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,920
the ministry, and the inspection
that is in charge for this within it,

370
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,240
or local authorities, their reactions
mainly come late, when some time

371
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:07,960
passes by, with the rationale
ten pages long, with the conclusion

372
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:14,040
that there was no case here.
Simply, this is just it...

373
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,240
As a conscious individual and member
of the community, you want to live

374
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,440
in a healthy environment. That is
to say, you try to control damage.

375
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,120
We cannot talk about it,
as Bor was never...

376
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,920
I mean, there's always pollution here,
and the first ecological uprising

377
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,480
happened in this area,
so people did put up a fight,

378
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,240
but now, simply, the scope of
pollution reached called for

379
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,720
introducing criteria
for damage control.

380
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,520
We don't have any response
from the competent bodies...

381
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:58,680
We are now talking of a population
that is in conflict within this area,

382
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:05,480
given that economic oscillations
that happened in Bor over the years,

383
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:16,680
brought the employees of RTB Bor
in the condition of permanent fear

384
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,240
that they would lose their jobs,
that they would be left without

385
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:25,160
income, they were threatened with
strategic partners coming or not...

386
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,520
Now, when the situation is in a way
stable, at least at economic aspect,

387
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,240
the majority citizens of Bor claim
that they are not actually concerned

388
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,280
about environment, that they have
high salaries that allow them to

389
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,640
afford what they never could,
and that simply it is not in their

390
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:49,040
interest, no matter how things
stand in the long run,

391
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,960
there is simply that opinion
that is now quite strong,

392
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,600
this has been industrial zone
since time immemorial,

393
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,280
the air has been always polluted,
we got used to it, so now when

394
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,080
it finally contributes to our living
well, despite inhaling bad air,

395
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,880
you now started to make waves
at the air pollution bothering you.

396
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:17,800
On the other hand, we can't
forget the fact that Bor is situated

397
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,400
near the border with
Bulgaria and Romania.

398
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,920
It was always a big question for me
how is it possible that EU members,

399
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,520
as I always say, the air knows
no borders, water either,

400
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,640
so how come that EU members
hadn't appealed so far in the

401
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,760
context of air pollution, as it is
impossible it hadn't reached them.

402
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,360
We saw in the political spheres
that this border between Serbia

403
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,480
and European Union is rather high,
it is obviously so high that even

404
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,800
air and water cannot pass by it.
-Yes, it is tough to pass by.

405
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,120
We are going to conclude our
conversation soon, I have a

406
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,360
question that interest me,
given that you come from Bor.

407
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,240
To what extent the city changed
for the last six years?

408
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:09,760
How much is the impact and presence
of Chinese company obvious?

409
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,680
As well as the impact of Chinese
workers, as I suppose that they

410
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,160
don't go downtown, but management
surely tends to get entartained...

411
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,800
Stores are mainly empty,
that is something you notice

412
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,960
at the first glance, simply,
whether the Chinese get

413
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,400
supplied for their own needs,
or Bor residents take care of

414
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,640
their own fears that they accumulated
for years that they are going to be

415
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,400
hungry, I don't know,
but that's a fact.

416
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,560
In the urbanistic sense, the city
experienced changes, not due to

417
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,360
Chinese, but due to illegal building
construction, which is not specific

418
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,400
only for Bor, but for all
local administrations.

419
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,960
However, the context and
the sociological aspect

420
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:03,800
has changed for sure,
lots of people used to say:

421
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,360
Well, you know, our city
is rather specific, etc...

422
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,560
Yes, Bor is really quite specific,
it's special as you have on the

423
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:16,360
same place exploitation and
processing of ore resources,

424
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,400
I will restrict myself to Serbia,
I believe that there's no such

425
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,640
case with the environment being
so highly contaminated and polluted

426
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,080
with heavy industry
as is the case in Bor.

427
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,840
On the other hand, people are
now satisfied as they have

428
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,640
salaries that are higher than
average, you can hardly find

429
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,160
a free parking lot in Bor, as every
household possesses at least

430
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,040
two vehicles, that's something...
-To add it up to the air pollution...

431
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:53,800
It is rather funny as you can finish
any job in Bor within 10-15 minutes,

432
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,880
downtown, so there's no need
to drive, especially not that we

433
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,400
have one passenger per vehicle,
but this might be a status symbol,

434
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,000
as people tend to compensate
and make up for all shortcomings

435
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,600
from the past five, ten
or fifteen years, etc.

436
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:16,160
So, yes, things did change
for the better, so simply...

437
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,800
I can say from a personal aspect,
and I am aware that many people

438
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,800
from Bor do not share this aspect
with me, but it si my impression...

439
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:34,120
Simply, life is different, there's
no interest whatsoever to advocate

440
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:40,640
any public interest, except for
something you personally find

441
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:47,040
significant, things have changed
since the time when our organization

442
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:53,000
was established, we are not in a
position now to gather critical mass.

443
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:59,720
People simply don't mind,
and my personal point of view

444
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,400
says that this is now
sold occupied territory

445
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,280
where we can't have any impact
and can't make any decisions.

446
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,840
This might be the message that
we don't want to conclude our

447
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:20,440
conversation but we will leave it
as a topic to be treated in future.

448
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,400
I am confident that the issue of
impact of such a big system on

449
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,240
a local community, no matter
how it got used to certain

450
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,800
way of life for centuries,
will become relevant,

451
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,680
especially if we put it in the context
of lack of responsibility for the

452
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:47,680
negative aspects that we considered.
We can commend higher living

453
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:54,240
standard, along with the fact that
there is less manpower than the

454
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:59,720
room for work, but at some point,
we will have to discuss the issue

455
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:05,880
of quality of life, not only
standard but the ways in which...

456
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,160
Well, we'll have to... Chinese
have tendency to expand...

457
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,280
Thank you very much, Marija,
for setting some time aside.

458
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,240
Thank you.
-Thank you for being my guest.

459
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,720
I appeal to all those who want
to get to know about this issue

460
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:20,760
to follow the work
of your organization,

461
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,520
I know that you're available to
all those who are interested

462
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,120
to learn more or to direct them to
all relevant sources of information

463
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:34,960
that might be significant to them,
and I hope that what we discussed

464
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,920
today would make things more
comprehensible to those who

465
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,800
are eager to learn more
about this situation, and

466
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:44,680
that they would get more familiar
with steel friendship...

467
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,840
I certainly hope so.
Thank you.

468
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,040
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469
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,480
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