1
00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:11,880
Good afternoon, Nenad!
-Good afternoon, Stefan!

2
00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:14,280
Welcome to the New
Magazine's podcast.

3
00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:15,800
Thank you.

4
00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,480
I'm glad that you're the first
guest we're going to host...

5
00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:20,400
In this series composed
of twelve podcasts.

6
00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:21,760
Thank you for inviting me.

7
00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,600
The pleasure is all mine, really.
For a start, I would like to say

8
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,280
few words about you.
You are a Research Fellow on

9
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,240
the Institute for International
Politics and Economics.

10
00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,280
You're also engaged in the Center
for Belt and Road Studies (CBRS),

11
00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:40,440
you have been a CBRS associate
for some three years now, while

12
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:42,680
you're engaged in the Institute
for International Politics and

13
00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,400
Economics for five years.
What I find most important,

14
00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,160
you're intensively dealing
with the issue of China,

15
00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:56,600
on the global level, as well as
with bilateral relations of China

16
00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,240
and Serbia, you're also
heading some of the projects

17
00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,520
we would be delighted to be
introduced with in more detail.

18
00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,720
I noticed another interesting
detail in your Curriculum Vitae,

19
00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,480
namely, you have been
learning Chinese language,

20
00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,120
so how's it going and
are you making progress?

21
00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,400
Yes, that is rather specific.
Coronavirus is to blame for that.

22
00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,960
There is five or six levels in
mastering Chinese language,

23
00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,280
I am currently on the third level,
that is to say, I have passed

24
00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,120
HSK level III proficiency test,
and I am now taking HSK level IV.

25
00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,560
Can we greet the viewers
and listeners of our podcast

26
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,200
in Chinese, as we would
like to do that right now?

27
00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,560
Given my knowledge of Chinese,
this is the only words of Chinese

28
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,680
that the listeners would be able
to hear in this 12 episodes...

29
00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,640
But I am glad that we had a chance
to greet our audience in Chinese.

30
00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,680
So, we designed this podcast
to bring the topic of China closer,

31
00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,720
as well as the issue of cooperation
between Serbia and China to our

32
00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,120
audience, and this is
such a complex topic.

33
00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,480
Having in mind that you're dealing
with the issue of China for a longer

34
00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,720
period of time, how challenging is
it to deal with such a complex topic

35
00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,640
in an objective way, what
are different aspects that

36
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,920
a researcher has to cover in order
to be able to say that they at least

37
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,120
partially understand China and
China's actions on a global level?

38
00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,440
I believe that if you devote your
whole academic or research career

39
00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,840
to China, it wouldn't be enough,
if someone devotes his whole life

40
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,840
to it, it will still be scarce,
as you would only partially

41
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,560
get to know Chinese civilization.
As you mentioned, I've spent

42
00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,440
several years researching this issue,
so I had an opportunity and I was

43
00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:42,840
fortunate, so to say, that China
happen to be my very first

44
00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,320
research orientation and focus.
Namely, as I enrolled in doctoral

45
00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:52,320
studies, I've got in touch with China,
I was invited by a Chinese Professor

46
00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,680
to attend some conference held in
Beijing, organized by a Chinese

47
00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,640
Academy of Social Sciences (CASS),
so in that way, after my getting a job

48
00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,000
at the Institute, and engagement in
doctoral thesis, I've contiuned with

49
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,120
this research committment.
Within the Institute itself,

50
00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,360
as you said, we have several
research centers, which cover

51
00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:11,840
the entire world, from the
geographical aspect, so

52
00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,320
one of those centers happen to be
Center for Belt and Road Studies.

53
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,920
I am engaged in that Center from
January, 2020, more than 3 years now.

54
00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,480
Although coronavirus hindered us
to quite an extent, we still managed

55
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,440
to realize projects, monographs,
works and so on and so on...

56
00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,960
But let's return to yours question,
what a researcher must possess

57
00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,520
to be good researcher,
at least in this one sphere...

58
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,280
As you said, knowledge of the
language attracted your attention,

59
00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,040
I might add that this is the key,
that it really is essential in

60
00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,640
understanding Chinese civilization
and ways China perceives world,

61
00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,120
reality and the whole system
of international relationships.

62
00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:56,600
I think there arises a big problem,
especially if we consider professors

63
00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,120
of prestigious West universities.
When they talk about China as

64
00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,080
an entity and a stakeholder
in international relations,

65
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,960
they are truly unparalleled,
and the best.

66
00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,800
However, when we touch the domain
of political philosophy, let's say,

67
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,640
or contemporary political theories,
the political thought of the leading

68
00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,760
Chinese researchers, wherever they
might be, not necessarily in China,

69
00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,080
then we have faced a problem
pertaining to the translation of

70
00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:29,440
some terminology which causes major
inconsistencies between researchers,

71
00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,520
the international community and
professional and general public.

72
00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:37,080
So I think the knowledge of Chinese
language is crucial for understanding

73
00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,200
the ways in which Chinese
institutions, its government,

74
00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,080
other bodies, and the Communist
Party in the final instance,

75
00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,520
perceive the world.
So, that comes first.

76
00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,040
Second, I think it is important that
researchers actually stay in China.

77
00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,400
So, it is important that if you
deal with an entity, state, region,

78
00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,240
to be present there, it doesn't
have to be a study stay for

79
00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:01,840
several years, but you
should really get to know

80
00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,560
your colleagues and, if possible,
enter into cooperation with them.

81
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,960
So, you do collaborative projects,
some joint research, and so on...

82
00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,800
You should have someone in team who
really speaks the Chinese language,

83
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,440
not like me at the learning level, but
really, who is a native speaker,

84
00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,720
or someone who is a philologist,
who can help you in that sense,

85
00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,440
to help you understand acts,
documents and strategies...

86
00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,560
China simply doesn't have the
tendency to do the translation.

87
00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,120
In the last few years, there is
a Chinese state body called

88
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,480
State Council Information Office
of the Chinese Government,

89
00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,040
and they translate, I would say,
more randomly, some decisions

90
00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,080
or acts of the State Council, even
from the Chinese National Congress.

91
00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,080
Do you mean from Chinese to English?
-Yes, from Chinese to English...

92
00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,360
Those translations aren't authorized,
they emphasize they're not authorized,

93
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,560
so even then you can't use those
translations, taking them as relevant,

94
00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,760
especially because they cover large
number of strategies, documents and

95
00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,120
policies in every sphere, not only in
sphere of security and foreign policy,

96
00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:06,320
they use philosophical terms, that
is, terms from political philosophy,

97
00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,240
Maoism, officially called
Mao Zedong Thought, and so on.

98
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:12,920
So, it is really important that you
logically match all those concepts

99
00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,560
into some coherent system,
in order to understand them better,

100
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,640
that is, to understand the intentions
of the stakeholders, the government,

101
00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,560
the parliament, Communist
Party and so on... In order

102
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,400
to understand what they want to
convey with those documents...

103
00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,360
So I think that a serious researcher
has to be dedicated solely to China,

104
00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:35,440
if he wants to be respectable in
that area and really have some

105
00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,120
kind of breadth and objectivity to
see not only the positive but also

106
00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,120
lots of the negative aspects that
are present in the whole story.

107
00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,960
How we stand in Serbia, both in
academic and in this NGO sector,

108
00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:50,000
when it comes to the researchers
dealing with China?

109
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,360
I come from the non-governmental
sector, so I can say that we started

110
00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:01,440
dealing with the topic at about same
time, you from academic perspective,

111
00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,880
my research is a little more
from the think-tank aspect,

112
00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,680
or something that we could
refer to as policy research.

113
00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,320
What was actually challenging
for me at the very beginning is

114
00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,000
that some comprehensible or
accessible literature in English or

115
00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,320
in the Serbian language, considering
that, well, I don't speak Chinese,

116
00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,800
was not available, it was scarce.
There weren't many people or

117
00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,720
literature dealing with this topic.
Now, over time, that has changed,

118
00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:35,640
and more and more people are dealing
with China on a higher level, or on,

119
00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,960
let's say, rather superficial
level, but here, what's your

120
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,600
assessment, how we stand
with the research community,

121
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,440
currently in Serbia, if we talk about
China as one complex, coherent topic?

122
00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,800
I think that, not only in Serbia,
but generally, on the global level,

123
00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,680
we have this tendency, that is, this
process until ten, fifteen years ago,

124
00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,560
China was practically a kind of
marginalized research field.

125
00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,280
So, nobody practically dealt with it.

126
00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:04,280
Or people dealt with some,
let's say, parallel topics,

127
00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,960
when they deal with, say, some global
security, or global economy and so on.

128
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,440
Then China is simply mentioned as
an actor that exists in the Far East,

129
00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,760
and that all changed
in 2010, 2011, 2012.

130
00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:20,160
At that moment, I would say that
older generation of researchers,

131
00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,520
that was transferred to Serbia
and I am speaking now in general,

132
00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,440
in the entire academic world,
generation of older scientists,

133
00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,840
older researchers, simply shifted the
focus to China from some other topics.

134
00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,200
We belong to the first generation
of academic researchers, at least

135
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:43,280
in my case, with academic way of
studying and focusing on China,

136
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,400
so there is that generational
gap, even in that field.

137
00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,800
That is good that we can learn from
older professors, and that some,

138
00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,280
for example, methods that they
applied in research 10,15 years ago,

139
00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,960
to other aspects of international
relations are now applied to China,

140
00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,120
and vice versa, so they can learn
from us about new practices,

141
00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,120
about insights that, for example,
they could not acquire,

142
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,360
because they didn't devote themselves
to it professionally for many years,

143
00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,360
I think there is a similar variant
even in Serbia, the first distinction

144
00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,600
between researchers of the younger
generation and older ones,

145
00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,520
not necessarily older by age, but
by the years that have dedicated to

146
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:22,760
to this research topic.

147
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,440
At Institute for International Policy,
we organized a format called

148
00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,080
Dialogues on China, we can
talk about that a little bit later,

149
00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,600
but as contribution to your question,
I will answer that we organized

150
00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:40,040
an annual conference
with the intention of gathering,

151
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,960
in the first place, it was still
the time of coronavirus pandemic,

152
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,480
the initial idea was to gather local
researchers, mainly from academic

153
00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,520
community, we edited anthologies,
we tried to work on one anthology.

154
00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,480
However, we were not able to find not
only in Serbia, but even in the region,

155
00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,440
academics who would be ready to write
articles, scientific articles for us,

156
00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,240
and then we were forced to publish
one collection from two conferences,

157
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,640
meaning we have to wait for the
second edition of the conference

158
00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:05,640
in order to collect
adequate materials.

159
00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,080
So, that can be an indirect answer
to your question, maybe it's a bit of

160
00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:13,320
a contradiction, it's counterintuitive
from what we see in public world,

161
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:18,600
in public discourse, that now really
all the experts are experts on China.

162
00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,920
Then, when it should be translated
into a specific scientific publication

163
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,240
then it's really a bit more difficult.
That was one of the motives to

164
00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,600
transfer this format into English,
actually to the international level.

165
00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:35,640
You have recently started
implementing another project,

166
00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,720
if I'm not mistaken, which
concerns not only China,

167
00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,200
but the relationship between
Serbia and China,

168
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,920
if I interpret the title of
the project correctly.

169
00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,560
Yes, that's right. We have two
projects, one of which has already

170
00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,200
been realized. It is a bilateral
cooperation project, financed

171
00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:51,520
by two ministries, that is,
of China and Serbia.

172
00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,400
Our Ministry of Science, Technological
Development and Innovation has had

173
00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,720
a similar project for several
decades, with all the countries

174
00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:00,960
of the world, on the basis
of bilateral agreements.

175
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:06,240
We had the pleasure of being the only
project in the field of social science

176
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,080
that received funding during
the coronavirus pandemic.

177
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,080
However, as the project is oriented
towards the mobility of researchers

178
00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,240
and for obvious reasons, we
couldn't realize it in full capacity,

179
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,080
because China was opened for
international travel only a few months

180
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,480
practically in February
or March 2023.

181
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,640
So we successfully completed
that project as much as we could,

182
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,840
in that online domain, but what is
more important and what we are

183
00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,800
really proud of is the project
that started a few days ago,

184
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,680
actually, and which is financed by
the World Bank and the Science Fund

185
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,720
of the Republic of Serbia. Project
will last two years and is oriented

186
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,680
towards mapping the risks of Serbian
foreign, economic and security policy,

187
00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,240
towards the European Union on the
one hand, and on the other hand,

188
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,120
towards People's Republic of China
because, somehow, we believed in

189
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,200
the team when we applied, we believed
that the two poles are still main

190
00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:01,200
focus of our security and foreign
policy, at least in the near future,

191
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:09,280
so we have an ambitious idea to map
all the objects of the reference

192
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,680
points of Serbian politics, our policy
in these three areas, that is,

193
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,800
security policy, economy, according to
these two actors, we are making a kind

194
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,480
of risk assessment for our foreign-
political action, which I hope will

195
00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,520
consequently contribute to our
decision-makers, and above all

196
00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:26,920
to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
and Ministry of European Integration

197
00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:28,760
in the further creation
of policies.

198
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,600
So, we should meet again in two
years to get to know your main

199
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,960
findings of the project, including
conclusions and recommendations.

200
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,480
That's right. We will have lots of
recommendations, numerous

201
00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:43,880
conferences, an online platform
where all the data will be gathered,

202
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:46,920
a kind of data base, maybe it would
happen somewhat earlier...

203
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,400
It will be publicly available,
it will be open access regime,

204
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,800
this was the request of our Science
Fund, along with the World Bank.

205
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,200
This data base will be available to
all the researchers and institutions.

206
00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:02,320
I hope it will happen much earlier
than you had envisaged it.

207
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,640
We will finish the project
in two year time.

208
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,800
Great! I am really glad to see
some of the results...

209
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,280
What seems to be lacking while
studying China is cerainly easy

210
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,640
access to all relevant information,
especially when we deal with the

211
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:25,760
security or economic issues.
Particularly economics is dominant

212
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,360
issue of research of the people
who deal with this theme.

213
00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:37,240
I would like to go back to your first
address, that is political philosophy.

214
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,120
Ideology of Contemporary Chinese
Communist Party is being considered

215
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,760
close to the thought and action
of Xi Jinping and his ideological

216
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:52,200
allies, or someone who creates
direction and further action of

217
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:59,120
the Communist Party of China.
If we talk in the domain of foreign

218
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,840
policy, what is recognizable, the
embodiment of that new ideology

219
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,600
of the Communist Party in China
for the last decade,

220
00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:10,800
is exactly The Belt and
Road Initiative (BRI).

221
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,600
Could you share with us some of
your views on the very beginning

222
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,560
of the Belt and Road Initiative,
what made this initiative successful

223
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,640
or less successful in different
parts of the world, and in general,

224
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,400
what seems to be the main goal
when we say Belt and Road Initiative.

225
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,400
All right, it's an initiative launched
by a certain country, but what was

226
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,000
main idea back in 2013, when
Chinese leader announced first

227
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,080
initiative in Kazakhstan that was
knonwn as One Belt One Road,

228
00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:46,920
that was later on rebranded into
the Belt and Road Initiative.

229
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,240
Yes, you started in a good way,
mentioning political philosophy,

230
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,240
actually, all that we now witness
and have been witnessing for decades

231
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,600
coming from China, on the level of
political spectre of decision-making,

232
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,480
has its foothold in the Chinese
leaders, so this is part of their

233
00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,240
political ethos, if we can say so,
not only Xi Jinping but also his

234
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,520
predecessors, it all started with
Mao Zedong, actually,

235
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,640
from cultural revolution, followed by
Deng Xiaoping, the policy of China's

236
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:20,040
'grand opening', so every Chinese
leader tried to shape his thought

237
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,920
in a way to be deeply embedded into
official policy of People's Republic

238
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,200
of China, this is also the case with
the incumbent president of China,

239
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,560
Xi Jinping, if we look into the
governance of China, that is to say,

240
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:40,720
ruling or managing China, we could
see in what ways his thoughts can

241
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:46,360
be considered a DNA of Chinese
foreign and security policy.

242
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:51,800
It is present in other domains as well
but those two are most dominant.

243
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,200
This initative, first called
One Belt One Road, and then

244
00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:00,160
the Belt and Road Initiative presents
China's opening up to the world.

245
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,480
This opening up has been on
hault since Deng Xiaoping,

246
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,080
when he announced it pompously,
at the end of 1978, more precisely,

247
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,160
it stagnated during the nineties,
there were lots of problems...

248
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:18,480
Due to diverse reasons, I would say
due to the state of international

249
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,680
system in this particular period,
the peak of unipolarity, and so on,

250
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,040
only since the early 2000s,
and the pompous Opening

251
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,160
of Olympic Games in China
in 2008, we have been able

252
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,960
to witness more practical opening.
For instance, I wasn't visiting

253
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,640
Beijing back then, but my colleagues
could testify that you haven't got

254
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,080
a single word written in English
on the Beijing Airport, as well as

255
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,760
in subway, all the signs and captions
were writen only in Chinese,

256
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,440
so Olympic Games triggered the
internationalization of the cities in

257
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,360
China, so we now have signs in
English in the markets and subways,

258
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:56,280
at the airports and so on.

259
00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,800
As you said, back in 2013, in
Kazakhstan, Xi Jinping announced

260
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,960
a grand project, and I believe that
this Initiative represents actually

261
00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:09,360
the embodiment of the idea of China
truly opening up to the whole world,

262
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,120
and as this is a circular process,
it should not open up only toward

263
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:20,200
the outside, but also on the inside,
to reform itself in economic aspect,

264
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,680
primarily, later on, it spilled over
to the political and security level.

265
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:31,480
Now, I would like to focus on the
fact that Belt and Road Initiative

266
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,520
is not a dominant Chinese tool in
the hands of Beijing, that is to say,

267
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:39,360
in the hands of the Government of
the People's Republic of China.

268
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,760
This is just one of several
instruments as there are many

269
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,840
much more powerful instruments.
In the book I've recently written,

270
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,480
I have reviewed the layers
of Chinese security policy,

271
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,600
and there is several groups and
subgroups of those layers out of which

272
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,240
Belt and Road Initiative is just
one so called spacial orientation.

273
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:02,040
I have proposed the analysis of
Chinese security policy broken into

274
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,680
functional ones, the ways in which
China responds to some challenges,

275
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,760
there is the issue of containment
in Indo-Pacific Strategy, then the

276
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,920
responds pertaining to Taiwan,
the race for semiconductor supremacy,

277
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,400
and so on... Then we have spatial
or hierarchy components, when it

278
00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:25,680
comes the the security sphere,
there is international security,

279
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,520
the way in which China perceives
the whole humankind, then there is

280
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,720
national security, how China
treats its own national interests,

281
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,600
how it perceives the issue that
we refer to as national security

282
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,360
in the Western discourse, and
finally, human security, in what

283
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,120
ways China treats the individual
human beings, how is a human

284
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:47,240
perceived in a Communist, and now
Socialist system, in what ways is he

285
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,840
protected, i.e. what are the values
that have been protected...

286
00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:54,800
Not just the ways, but also what are
the values, that significantly differ

287
00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:57,680
from the Western values.
Finally, we have spatial,

288
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:03,480
so called regionally tailored policies
so Belt and Road Initiative is just

289
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,760
one of these regional policies.
Surprisingly, China has much

290
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,200
better developed cosmic politics,
Arctic policy, policy pertaining to

291
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,160
Australia and Oceania than
for Road and Belt Initiative.

292
00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,480
So, RBI is just one example of
China's economic efforts to establish

293
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,680
itself as a significant economic
stakeholder on the territory of

294
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:22,600
Central Asia and
Central Eastern Europe.

295
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:29,560
Serbia is more inclined towards
this form of cooperation of China

296
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:31,720
with the states belonging to
the Central Eastern Europe,

297
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:33,440
which was earlier the
16+1 format strategy,

298
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,680
followed by 17+1 format,
and it started to crumble.

299
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,520
We have already witnessed
a kind of skeptical standpoint

300
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,000
when it comes to cooperation with
China, so called Sino-skepticism,

301
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,480
particularly on the part of some
of the EU member states,

302
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,240
that are encompassed with this
format, so Beijing decided, due to

303
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,520
promotional reasons, not to call it
13, 14 or 15 format, but simply...

304
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,560
It is not good to witness
the decline in the numbers...

305
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,360
That's never a good sign.

306
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,760
Before we cover regional approach,
which is rather significant for us,

307
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:10,240
as we had lots of evidence
in our case, that it is still

308
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:15,160
operational in certain way,
but rather specific way of

309
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,920
cooperation, but let's
leave it for later discussion...

310
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,080
As for Road and Belt, and
in connection with what you've said,

311
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:29,120
this is just a part of a very complex
system of Chinese activities on

312
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:35,080
a global level, there are diverse
models of cooperation that we

313
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,400
identify with BRI, and what I find
particularly interesting is that we,

314
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:45,080
looking from the side, we see BRI
only in the infrastructural projects

315
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:52,160
that are being implemented in
Africa, as well as in our region.

316
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:58,440
However, Belt and Road Initiative
also includes Sea Belt and Road,

317
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,400
Digital Belt and Road, and those are
diverse aspects of this Initiative,

318
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,080
so what was main idea in launching
the Belt and Road Initiative as such,

319
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:15,080
and what has BRI bring to China
to make it so different from China

320
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:20,920
in 2013, but to be China that
we now perceive as dominant,

321
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,880
if not the most dominant stakeholder
on the global level, having in mind

322
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:31,760
all the events since COVID-19,
where we witnessed a kind of

323
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:37,360
paradoxical situation, that China
was much more active globally, but

324
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:45,360
rather closed on a national level from
2020 to the end of 2022, early 2023.

325
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:51,280
Yes, if we consider this decade long
continuum that you've mentioned,

326
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:57,360
if we consider great strategy of
the People's Republic of China,

327
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,320
I believe that coronavirus has been
a kind of turning point in China's

328
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,800
so called fourth and fifth stage in
the development of China's

329
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,000
great strategy. Let's see why
it presents a turning point.

330
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,320
Well, after ten years, or nine years,
initial problems in the perception of

331
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,960
Belt and Road Initiative become
evident, Chinese infrastructural

332
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,560
projects, not only in Europe,
but worldwide,

333
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:24,960
so China seems to use COVID19
pandemic to justify the legality and

334
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,520
legitimacy of the existence
of Belt and Road Initiative.

335
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:34,080
The skepticism which we refered
to in our region presented a kind of

336
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:40,240
challenge for the official Beijing,
resulting in three sub-initiatives:

337
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,200
Global Security, Global Development
and Global Civilisation Initiative.

338
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,600
There are several more, now.
I think, there is also

339
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:48,800
Artificial Intelligence Initiative,
Global AI Governance Initiative.

340
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,760
It is important to mention that China
tends to present all those initiatives

341
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,280
through the United Nations system.
China insists on that.

342
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,000
Especially Global Development
Initiative represents the future

343
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,400
of academic research of China,
and treating the issue of China.

344
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:07,600
Apart from GDI being linked to
UN Agenda 2030, for example,

345
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,920
it is truly supported by large
number of countries,

346
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,040
even numerous Western states,
international organizations,

347
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,560
forums and bodies, etc.
This is actually the right way,

348
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,040
together with Global Civilisation
Initiative for the China to show

349
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,920
that all its initiatives seem
coherent, that all those projects

350
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:26,000
are turned to the benefit
of the entire mankind.

351
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,960
This is the expression that
they use: shared future or

352
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,720
Community of common
destiny for mankind,

353
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,240
that means that every project that
originates from China has to be

354
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:46,000
perceived, as the Chinese want to
hear, as common destiny for mankind.

355
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:52,600
I think that China for the last nine
to ten years, and also on annual

356
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,040
level, experienced incredible
progress on the internal plan.

357
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,200
We are talking about digits that
are inconceivable on local level,

358
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:06,040
starting with infrastructure projects
within China, length of high-speed

359
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:13,040
lines, that are improved by million
percent, just in a few years period.

360
00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:18,840
Reduction of dirty technology,
transitioning to clean technology...

361
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,240
Beijing couldn't be imagined without
smog in Decembar, but now, the

362
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,480
situation is similar to the one
in Serbia, with a clear blue sky.

363
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,680
Not only Beijing, but other cities as
well. We are not a good reference

364
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,400
point, not such a fortunate
benchmark for comparison...

365
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,360
It's better than it used to be.
-Yes, it is much better.

366
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,680
I believe that Beijing is less
polluted than Belgrade sometimes.

367
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,640
There are applications that could
prove this, but on a serious matter,

368
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,160
they really had a pollution problem,
and it is not the same when you

369
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,840
had a city of 30 million inhabitants,
i.e. several cities that commonly

370
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,960
have some 200 million residents,
and when those cities are so polluted

371
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,960
that you cannot go out. Remember
images of Chinese wearing masks,

372
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,920
it happened prior to coronavirus.
-Prior to the masks becoming cool.

373
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,680
Yes, even prior to that, and now,
it is behind them, and they have

374
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,040
already forgotten all about it.
Believe it or not, nobody

375
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,080
mentions that anymore.
So, on the internal level,

376
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,560
China made quite a progress,
and it is questionable to what

377
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,520
extent is that progress transferred
to the international level.

378
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,400
China has that intention, and it is
one of the ideas of global, dual

379
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,080
circulation, meaning that world
circumstances affect China,

380
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,000
and vice versa, in the
economic aspect,

381
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,280
so we are talking about positive
synergy between external and internal

382
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,920
world, as China likes to refer to.
To make it a coherent and concrete

383
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:37,520
value, that it is globally benefitial
if China developed certain

384
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:39,960
technologies for air purification,
so that it is being used by some

385
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,040
other countries. It is now just
the issue of local governance

386
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,240
of some third world countries,
whether their local authorities

387
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:49,960
would do it in a transparent way,
and then big problems arise in

388
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:53,000
perceiving what China has
been doing through this initiative.

389
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:59,440
Here we come to the point which
is in Western liberal democracies

390
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:03,400
maybe a dominant narrative when
it comes to cooperation with China,

391
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,560
and that is the fact than nobody says
that it is forbidden to cooperate with

392
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:09,560
China, but that anyone should be
extremely cautious in doing so.

393
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,160
You mentioned the cooperation of
China with the countries of Central

394
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,080
and Eastern Europe, earlier
known as 16 or 17+1 platform,

395
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,360
and we had witnessed for the last
couple of years that three countries

396
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,840
dismembered themselves from this
initiative, those are Baltic states,

397
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,520
Lithuanina, Latvia and Estonia
had left this initiative.

398
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,440
Now, the Czech Republic is also on
the verge to leave the initiative...

399
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,840
I have visited the Czech Republic
in October for some ten days,

400
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,080
as part of some fellowship program,
so I met with members of the

401
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,000
Ministry of Foreign Affairs, so
I think that there are indications

402
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,520
that show that the Czech Republic
will continue to be part of this

403
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:50,200
initiative, but similar to some
stakeholders from our region,

404
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,320
for instance, in Albania, this is just
a communication channel with China,

405
00:26:54,600 --> 00:27:00,160
while what seems to drive Czech
apart from this initiative with China

406
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,000
are several scandals that on the
national level grow into corruption

407
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,840
scandals, followed by certain
accusations of taking certain

408
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,160
actions on the national level,
but also concrete lack of results

409
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,600
on the part of the initiative.
So, Serbia is here such a

410
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:20,520
specific example as we had
implemented large number of

411
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,240
infrastructural projects with China,
in cooperation with Chinese companies,

412
00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:27,600
but we also have significantly higher
foreign direct investments than

413
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:31,840
other states from this region.
When we consider critical remarks,

414
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,600
do they, and in what way,
redefine Chinese activities

415
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,960
both on the global level, and
on the regional level, let's

416
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,480
focus on this region of Central
and Eastern Europe.

417
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,000
How do you perceive this initiative
for cooperation between China and

418
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:51,320
the CEE countries, given that
this is rather specific platform,

419
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,280
primarily, this is not
multilateral platform.

420
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,080
This is actually fourteen
bilateral relations crammed

421
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:06,480
into one cooperation modality,
with a rather restricted level

422
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,760
of cooperation between European
countries that are gathered here,

423
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,160
while on the other hand, there is
a sharp division between EU member

424
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:19,600
states and non-EU member states,
followed in the end by the results

425
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,320
that are significant in some of the
countries and less successful in

426
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:29,640
others, so let's bring our
conversation to an end.

427
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:32,920
What is the future of this
platform and generally,

428
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,840
in what way China defines, that is to
say, redefines its policy based on

429
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,920
some of the critical standpoints
that China faced with due to its

430
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,120
activities on the global level?

431
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,640
Yes, you've nicely noticed that
it is not a multilateral format,

432
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,840
I would call it a kind of
soft multilateral format,

433
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,360
so there is a secretariate which
practically is not a regular body,

434
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,360
representing China in this
part of Europe, and there are

435
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,520
national coordinators, whom every
country appoints, being usually

436
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,680
in the capacity of foreign affairs
ministers, or speaker of parliament.

437
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,800
In our case, the minister of finance.
-Yes, yes, minister of finance...

438
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,800
In the past, that was not the case.
So, they gather on annual summits,

439
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,880
so this represents a kind of soft
communication in the multilateral

440
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,600
format, and you've also noticed that
there is no cooperation established

441
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,480
on the part of European countries,
there is cooperation of the EU states

442
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,240
on the one, and China
on the other hand.

443
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,280
That is why this mechanism is
rather specific and special...

444
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,040
In first years of this mechanism's
implementation, there were even

445
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:36,080
joint projects, invitations for
joint cross-border projects,

446
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,920
as well as bilateral projects,
this is not the case now,

447
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,120
at least judging by what we had
the chance to see on the website

448
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,960
of this mechanism and based on
the information we got from China.

449
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,600
The level of cooperation actually
varies from country to country,

450
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,600
as well as the level of skepticism,
being caused by diverse reasons.

451
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,880
In case of the Baltic states,
we have clear geo-political effects,

452
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,960
it is not just economic aspect.
On the other hand, Serbia,

453
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,200
Hungary and Romania are in a way
the mini champions when it comes

454
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,120
to attracting investment from China.
It is another matter whether those

455
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,680
are investments or loans,
it should be covered in a separate

456
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,280
podcast, perhaps...
-For the next episode...

457
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:21,600
If we consider total share in GDP,
and given total number of population,

458
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,480
those three countries, apart
from Poland, which is an exception,

459
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,280
are really mini champions when
it comes to cooperation with China.

460
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,760
The biggest problem is to find out
whether China is ready to learn.

461
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,320
Meaning, wheather Chinese companies
are ready to learn, to adjust to local

462
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,840
market principles and the principles
of open economy, transparency of

463
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,960
budget spending, tenders, and so on.
In that sense, the bridge on Peljesac

464
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,040
is a kind of turning point,
or at least I hope so, we'll see.

465
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,720
So, it is about EU tender which a
consortium of Chinese companies got,

466
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,080
for the first time,
based on European rules.

467
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,480
Just to get it clear,
Peljesac is a bridge in Croatia...

468
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:09,800
It happened that Chinese companies
built a huge infrastructural

469
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,760
project from EU funds, on the
territory of European Union.

470
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,680
I believe that this was a kind of
message, not only to Europe,

471
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:22,200
but to the whole mankind, as China
now could become a competitive power

472
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,160
in accordance with EU
or western liberal rules.

473
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,680
When it comes to the critical
opinions which are coming from

474
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,120
some western countries, we should
consider every single case,

475
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,600
for example Sri Lanka, which is being
considered as an example of

476
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,760
non-transparent spending of
funds, as well as whether those

477
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,840
infrastructural projects are directed
towards local communities,

478
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,520
whether local communities possesses
certain, especially in a post-conflict

479
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,920
areas, process called
positive peace building,

480
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,600
whether this newly constructed
railway is really helping local

481
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,360
community or for transport for
the sake of some Chinese company.

482
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,040
We should treat every single case,
but general criticism on the part

483
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,080
of some of western countries does
not call for non-cooperation,

484
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,960
you noticed that in your comment,
they only call for a ceratin dose

485
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,840
of caution, as I would like to mention
that last year US and China had

486
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,120
the most successfull bilateral
exchange, the same goes for

487
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,800
the Netherlands, where China is
one of the dominant foreign trade

488
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:28,640
partners, not political, and now,
then it is questionable whether

489
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:36,920
there is certain sarcasm in
criticisizing, having in mind

490
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,680
that they are also attracting large
numbers of Chinese projects,

491
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,960
which are not being mentioned,
at least in this part of Europe.

492
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,520
So, I believe that every single
country within CEE region can

493
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,360
be treated individualy. Our Serbian
foreign policy agenda is still based

494
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:59,240
on several pillars that Boris Tadic
used to introduce back in 2009,

495
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,160
out of which China represents one
of the four pillars we turn to.

496
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:10,400
So, it doesn't matter which political
structure is ruling in Serbia,

497
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,520
as it is present in Serbia for
some fifteen or sixteen years.

498
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,560
This is something that China
recognizes with us, in our case.

499
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,280
In case of Hungary, there is
certain revanchism, given that

500
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,720
Hungary currently is not
among the best EU student.

501
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,280
So, China goes there
for a lot of direct deals,

502
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,360
and between those two countries,
there is, or will hopefully be,

503
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,320
the first cross-border project
within this initiative.

504
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,440
Whether it turned out to be
rather late, after 10, 12 or 13

505
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,360
years after the initiative's launch,
can be also part of discussion,

506
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,080
but this is a concrete outcome
which links the two countries,

507
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,720
one EU Member, and the other
is not full-fledged EU member.

508
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,800
It remains to be seen what will be
the future of the highest level of

509
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:59,040
cooperation within this initiative,
having in mind that the summit

510
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,040
wasn't held second year in a row...
-That's right...

511
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,800
There were some indications that
summit could be held this year,

512
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,360
however, the third summit of
Belt and Road Initiative took place,

513
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:14,120
so this is left for next year.
Anyway, what we could conclude...

514
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,560
Apart from the fact that we have
to invite you at least once again,

515
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,320
or twice, to be our guest
as we go through all relevant

516
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,520
elements of this very short
introduction of Chinese

517
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,320
foreign policy. It is true that
China does not intend to

518
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,800
leave the project in CEE,
nor on the global level,

519
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:41,560
especially those three new initiatives
that represent the foundation

520
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:50,480
to see how China will redefine the
order and manner of global governance

521
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,080
as such, but if we talk about
our region, Serbia is often

522
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,120
regarded as a leader in
cooperation with China.

523
00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:03,600
The collaborative intensity with
Bosnia and Herzegovina is also

524
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,320
strengthened, along with Montenegro
with appointment of new ambassador,

525
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,680
followed by slightly less intensive
cooperation with Albania and North

526
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,200
Macedonia, which clearly show
that China has just rolled the dice,

527
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,280
and that the results of
the game are yet to be seen.

528
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:23,240
However, what you've said and
what I would like to underline is

529
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,640
that the results will largely depend
on our internal governance,

530
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:33,320
our democratic capacities and our
willingness to implement certain

531
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,720
processes, aligning with
the rule of law, along with

532
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:39,680
competition rules
and market rules.

533
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:44,800
As we are nearing the end
of this episode, I just want

534
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,200
to thank you for breaking
the ice in our podcast,

535
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,320
as well as for the insight and
advice that one who wants to

536
00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:00,960
deal with these issues must
regard as elementary principles,

537
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,120
and as I asked you to greet our
audience in Chinese at the beginning

538
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,920
of this podcast, I would appreciate
if you could finish this episode by

539
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,760
saying 'goodbye' in Chinese.
-We could just say, for instance,

540
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:17,080
Dear friends, goodbye,
something like this...

541
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:21,080
Exactly!

542
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:22,440
Thank you.
-Thank you.