Welcome to the Forward With Purpose podcast.
Your hosts are Linda Keener Thomas from the National
Memorial for the Unborn and Mindy Lefeshore from
an even place virtual abortion healing groups
and coaching for pro -life ministry workers.
We understand the power of addressing the abortion
wound which then allows us to confidently stand
in the gap for the next person. We also understand
how lonely and heavy this work can be. This podcast
is designed to connect you with other leaders
doing this work to learn from the vast wealth
of knowledge and experience that is out there.
God has designed you for greater things. God
has commissioned you to a precious and sacred
place in abortion recovery ministry work. It
is our hope you are encouraged and equipped as
you move forward with purpose in your ministry.
Welcome to Forward With Purpose. Today I have
Latoya Matthews with us. Linda can't be with
us, it's just me, but I have Latoya Matthews.
She wrote a book called Unveiled Freedom and
she has a ministry and I'm going to give her
all kinds of room and latitude to talk about
herself and her ministry. But first Latoya, I'd
love for you to share just a little bit about
your story and tell us, you know, just kind of
how you got here. Yes, and thank you so much
for having me, Mindy, and it is such an honor
and a blessing to be here. And so I am where
I am right now because at the age of 18, I was
had graduated high school and I was I knew that
some things were changing in my body, but I didn't
know exactly what was happening. And my grandmother's
friend, you know, the elders can always tell
when someone is caring or conceiving or anything
like that. And she saw me in a grocery store
one day and she said, you're glowing. You're
pregnant. And I was like, no. Not me. Not me.
And I had a cousin who also, she was like, you're
sleeping a whole lot. And I didn't really know
the symptoms that came with this being an 18
year old. I was just like, okay, maybe I do need
to go get this checked out since people are,
you know, saying things. So I walked into the
health department. I'm originally from Mississippi
and we have health departments. And so I walked
into the health department and the nurse told
me to, you know, follow the procedures. And so
that's what I did. And she came back in the room
and she said, you're pregnant. And I was just
like, I was taking her back. I was like, What
like you know, but it's like what would you expect?
You're doing the duties like you're doing the
thing so you know it wasn't really a shock but
it was a shock for me because I knew that at
that time I had just graduated high school and
I had opportunities that were out there for me
and in my mind it was just like I can't do this
because I'm already trying to leave Mississippi.
I knew that it wasn't the the place that I would
be in. I was already in my mind applying for
opportunities to go to the Navy. I had applied
and I had gotten my height waiver you know and
everything because I'm 411 and a half and so
you have to be a certain height to join the military
and you know had taken all the steps and I was
like Mississippi is not the place for me and
so I remember calling my boyfriend at the time
and telling him that I was pregnant and There
wasn't much words on the other side of that line.
It was just like complete silence. And I was
like, I don't know what I'm going to do. And
also, I didn't even know if I was going to be
with him at that time. And so I had never even
heard of the word abortion at that time. And
I just knew that. When people had babies they
had babies, you know And so for me it was like
to be to be presented with that opportunity I
was like what this is the decision that I will
have to make because I have all of these things
that are happening for me and on my behalf and
I felt like at the time that I really didn't
have a great relationship with my mom and at
the time I also told myself I'm not going to
be that girl that's on welfare like I had seen
family members that were on welfare and I was
like that will not be me and so I told my boyfriend
I was like well this is what we're going to do
and he didn't really he didn't hesitate You know,
it was just like, oh, are you sure? Like, and
I'm like, yes, this is what I want to do. And
so I scheduled the appointment and I remember
walking into that building and I hit my head
held low because there were people outside. They
had signs. They were, you know, saying things,
but I blocked all of that out. And I, it was
almost like the walk of shame going into that
building. I just remember sitting in that chair,
filling out the paperwork again. I know I didn't
even look at the other women that were in the
room. Like I didn't look around. I didn't see.
I didn't want to see anything. I just was focused
on filling out my information and getting in
and getting out of that place. And so isn't that
what we have to do? Yeah, abortion. I mean, we
have to disconnect ourselves from what's really
happening. Don't we? Yes. Yes. Yes, we do. And
so they called my name and I go into the room
and I remember laying on the table that they
had prepared for me, and I was laying there.
I was looking at the ceiling, and I began to
hear the machine, the rearing of the vacuum going
off and, you know, just laying there. And I don't
even remember any of the conversation that I
had with the nurse or even with the doctor. Like
you said that there was just such a disconnect.
Like I just needed to not focus on what was happening.
But I remember looking around that room and I
saw the jars on the wall and I just remember
thinking my child, my baby is going to be in
one of those jars. They were done and I went
to the recovery room and it was, you know, dimly
lit in the recovery room and it felt like I was
there forever. And then she came in and after
I went school shopping because I was preparing
to go to college and I got in that truck with
my boyfriend and there was nothing said. There
was no conversation. Nothing. We drove to the
store, got the things for me to move into my
dorm room and I went back home. And I remember
walking into my aunt's house and I went to the
back bedroom and I guess the business of that
day had worn off and I sat on the bed and I just
broke down crying and I said Lord what did I
just do and I My boyfriend must have been feeling
the weight of it at the time as well because
he came back to pick me up and I just remember
him crying and I Got in the truck and we went
to a secluded place and I just sat in his lap
and put my head in his chest and I just stopped
and we both, you know, we're just crying and
So I started college 2003 August 2003 and 2006
I moved to Georgia and even during that transition
time I really didn't even think about it. Like
I was just still moving about like nothing had
taken place. I was always busy trying to make
sure that I didn't have time to sit and think
about that. But it's a process. That is such
a that is such a good way for us to not think
about what's happening in our head and heart
and to just keep ourselves disconnected from
it. So it's not just disconnecting in the abortion
center, but we have to then maintain that disconnect
from reality afterwards until finally it comes
crashing in. Yep. And so, you know, I was. drinking,
I was partying, I was even in and I was I had
went to school for tennis and so tennis season
came so that was another occupying you know time
you know for me not having to think about that
but I was just in this place and in this space
of It was just so much happening and I was making
sure that I was always busy, you know, doing
something. I had gotten a job as well. And so
still, when I got out of class, I would go to
work. So there's still no time to really think
about, you know, this, because by the time I
get back to school, then it's time, you know,
to go to bed and wake back up and. go through
all the things, but one of the things I wouldn't
say that I'm blessed, but one of the things that
I did not experience that I know most women do,
there was never a sensitivity to babies crying.
There was never any nightmares of what had happened
in that room. And so I never experienced those
things and it could be because of the constant
motion. that I was in so you didn't have any
kind of triggers at all like babies or no when
you had your you have a daughter correct yes
I do have a daughter when you had it when you
had your daughter that didn't trigger you back
yeah it did okay so it wasn't until then it wasn't
until then I had my daughter that things started
to really hit me when I found out I moved to
Georgia in 2006 and my grandmother she was she
was my rock she was like my everything and in
2006 when I moved the very first thing that she
said because my mom no one knew that I had had
the abortion. And there was only one person that
knew outside of my boyfriend. And she was my
friend at the time. And she knew. But then she
broke that trust by telling someone else. So
I put up this wall. And so I kept everyone out.
And still, no one in my family knew about what
I had done. So in 2006, when I was prepared to
move out to college, my grandmother told me,
don't go to Georgia and get pregnant. And what
did I do? I moved in May and I was pregnant in
October. And it was just like the very thing
that she told me not to do, I did. But in that
moment, I knew the hell that I had went through.
And I was like, I'm not going through that again.
I will have to do what I have to do and I'm going
to have the baby this time because I knew the
torment and the things that I was experiencing
in my mind at that time. But it was every day
that I isn't that interesting because I hear
I hear you and I get this from my experience
because I hear you say You were so busy. You
were never thinking about it never triggered
by anything all these things But yet you went
through hell and torment in your months. So it's
like this It's there, but you're just trying
to buffer it and so you don't feel it You don't
experience it, you know, it doesn't become that
the reality that is true Yeah, so it is a strange
it is a strange thing to be in and But every
day from the moment that I had it For about ten
years. I prayed every day for God to forgive
me for what I had done and so I got prayed in
2006 and I remember being at work one day and
I told my friend and I just I broke down in the
front of her and I said How can I take care of
one when I've given up another? And so things
started to really hit me when I became pregnant
with my daughter. And it was like the enemy,
you know, bringing up these things and telling
me all of these things. And she was born in 2007.
And she was about two weeks old. And my mother
came to help me. And I would pick her up and
she would start crying. But when my mother picked
her up, she would stop crying. And my husband
went out of town because I have a bonus son.
He went out of town to Mississippi. And it's
in the heat of summer. And it's very hot in Atlanta
during the summertime. And I run out to my car.
The car isn't on. The windows aren't down. It's
hot in this car. I know that it's hot. But in
my mind, that doesn't faze me. I call him and
I say, she doesn't love me. And he was like,
what are, he's confused. He doesn't know what
to say. He doesn't know how to console me. He
doesn't, you know, have the words. He's confused
cause he's like, what are we talking about? Did
he know about it or is this where he finds out?
Well, actually my husband is actually the one
that took me. He was my boyfriend. Okay. Okay.
Yes. Okay. All right. So you guys so did oh wow
some more questions and Because I want to know
that he get healing too. So go ahead. Yeah. Yeah,
so I call him and he's like, what do you mean?
She doesn't love you and I said every time I
pick her up She starts crying but when my mom
picks her up She starts she stops crying and
it was like the enemy was telling me see I told
you that she wasn't she wasn't gonna love you
because of the decision that you had made But
I also didn't know at the time no one had told
me or talked to me about postpartum No one had
told me that babies can pick up stress in your
body when you pick them up like you know from
They spent nine months with you so they know
the functioning of your body But I didn't know
that in my mind it was she doesn't love you because
of your decision. Yeah And so it all came rushing
in. And I was like, well, I can't love her because
I don't have this love to give her. Like, how
am I going to love her? How am I going to take
care of her as a mom when I don't even have these
things that I don't know? And so I'm going to
church every Sunday. I'm sitting in church and,
you know, but there's still things that I'm wrestling
with in those times that I'm going to church.
And it wasn't until one day my pastor saw me
and she said, I see death in your eyes. And I
knew that she wasn't lying because I was just
like, God, take me now. I'm tired of dealing
with this. I'm tired of the torment. I was ready
to leave my husband and my daughter behind. I
was like, God, I can't do this anymore. like
just take me and so I went through some um deliverance
with that because it was things that I had done
prior to the abortion. Shame was already in my
life but abortion just magnified it. It was like
yeast to the things that I had experienced and
so I went through that and then my pastor introduced
us to the book called The True Measure of a Woman
by Lisa Bavir. And she asked two questions in
chapter two. And I didn't make it to the end
of that book because everything like shifted
for me in that moment. And the first question
was, what is it that you have in your closet
that you need to clean out? And I knew that it
was God speaking to me, that it was time to clean
out abortion. And it was also my grandmother
had passed away shortly after I moved to Georgia.
And so I didn't know that at the time I was dealing
with depression as well. Like it was just a lot.
It was like layers on layers on layers of things
that I'm dealing with that I had not healed or
hadn't started the healing process of. And so
we read the, got to that first question. And
then the second question was, what is it that
you have a value that you can get to someone
else? And I immediately started sobbing. I was
crying and I got. Frustrated and mad at God because
I was like, how could you make me with no purpose?
How could you make me with no value? How could
you say that I have something to give when I
don't? And so it was a thought from the abort
like that kind of came out of yes You just felt
like you had nothing to give. Yeah, I had nothing
to give I am of no value. Why would you make
me with no purpose? Why would you make me to
be here when I don't even have anything to give
to anybody? And so, and at that time also I was
having this pain in my stomach almost as a reminder
to what I had done. It would be this sharp pain
that would hit me in my stomach. And so we got
back and we talked about the book and I didn't
want to talk about it. but thank God it was a
small group of women the Lord knows he's intentional
and so we share and I tell them about the things
I had written on that page and I told them how
I had prayed every day and asked God to forgive
me and my pastor said what sweetie he forgave
you the very first time that you prayed And I
didn't know that because I didn't have a relationship
with God like that. And for her to say that it
was like a gift that I didn't know that I needed
and it was the gift of forgiveness. And so when
she said that, she didn't know that I was having
that pain in my stomach. But when she said it,
I haven't had that pain in my stomach since then.
Because now I understand that it was the unforgiveness
that I was holding against myself. you know the
regret and all the guilt and everything that
I was holding on to from having that procedure
done. Wow. And so that kind of changed the trajectory
of my life and you know started the healing process
and really started to get me into this place
of understanding what it was to know God and
to understand you know that he had forgiven me
and that He still, you know, he still loved me.
And so I just thank God for my pastors, because
they approached me with love and compassion.
Isn't that beautiful? I mean, we don't heal without
God. We really don't. Yes. The Word of God heals
if it does. And even if we did... Never did a
Bible study on abortion recovery, but we were
seeking the Lord for abortion there would be
healing But boy, there's so much power in having
someone take you and lead you through something
like that So did you go through a specific study
for abortion recovery ever? No, no everything
I didn't have my first support group until Last
year you're you mean for yourself Yeah, because
I went through it because I was going to be a
volunteer at a non -profit. So their requirement
was you had to go through a support group for
it. So my healing was literally Holy Spirit in
the Bible. That was it. I didn't have anything
else. And even at that time, I didn't know that
there were support groups. I didn't know that
these things existed. until God began to speak
to me to tell my story. And so everything that
I've experienced has really just been God. It's
been Holy Spirit. It's been Jesus. The Godhead
3 and everything has been just that. So I want
to talk a little bit about the book you wrote
and I'm going to apologize right on there to
you. I read your book. I told you that before
we started and I loved it. It's beautiful, but
I read it several months ago and I've slept since
then. So I did forget the detail about your husband
and I want to apologize for that on air. But
it is beautifully written and I want you to just
kind of talk about unveiled freedom, what your
intent was for this book, for the women who read
it and go for it. Yeah, so unveil freedom. It
was one of those things again where the Lord
was like, you're telling the story, but I need
you to like everything out in this book. Like
I need them to really read it and you know, and
just be transparent about what took place in
my life. And so unveil freedom is just that it's
just it's it's giving an invitation for women
to really walk unashamedly and to understand
that abortion is not the author of their story
and so writing this it was the intent of also
it's not just for people who've experienced abortion
but anyone who has experienced shame in their
lives because You may not have had a physical
abortion, but you've had things in your life
that have tried to abort your destiny, whether
it be the addiction, whether it be divorce, whether
it be the accident. There's always something
in our lives that are trying to abort us from
getting to the destiny of what God has called
us to. And so it's for anyone who has really
dealt with shame. And I talk about in the book
that I didn't even know shame was the word for
how it was feeling. I knew that I had emotions,
but I didn't know that it was shame that I was
dealing with. And so I go, I talk about in the
book, the Genesis chapter one, and the Genesis
is all about going back to the beginning. Shane
did not first start with the abortion. It started
with me being humiliated in school after having
sexual intercourse with a guy and him telling
the entire school. That's where the origin of
Shane came from, but abortion just magnified
that. Right. All the unhealed areas in my life.
And I talk about also how the shame that I carried
from my husband, he was my boyfriend at the time,
and he was also with someone else at the time
that we were talking. He was with her first.
They had a son and we started, you know, talking
and we had intercourse and how he has also received
healing as well and how the Lord began to work
on his heart and how he apologized to me by saying,
I'm sorry for the trauma I caused in your life
that I added onto it. And how the Lord really
had him to see how he was an accomplice in this.
Because his thing was, well, I didn't do it.
I don't have anything to apologize for. She was
the one that went through it. And how the Lord
dealt with his heart and he had to ask for forgiveness,
you know, for that. And so I talk about from
being a mother to my relationships with friends
and being married and how I'm not able to give
my body to my husband to love one because I didn't
love my body. And just going through and talking
about how speaking with my daughter at the age
of 12 and telling her about the abortion and
her having the wisdom of God at 12 years old
to say, Thank you for choosing me. And I didn't
know that I needed to hear that from her, from
her own lips, but it was like the Lord used her
to further break off some things that I had been
holding on to. Yeah. One of the things I do like
about your book, Latoya, is that you actually
give the reader some things to think about at
each chapter. And so just talk about that a little
bit. That's the part where it's called unveiling.
Yeah, so the unveiling is where I asked these
questions at like the Genesis the unveiling of
that where did this thing start in your life
where did shame start because when we can get
to the root of something we can stop going through
the revolving door of repeated cycles and repeated
patterns and so my whole idea behind that was
to have you to sit and to reflect because just
like me having to take a moment to just sit and
face that thing instead of running from it because
you keep running but it's still chasing after
you. Yeah and you talk about in the beginning
you talk about the veil because you know it's
unveiled freedom and I never really thought about
this before but you talked about the veil that
the bride wears and then you can the veil that
we wear is Shane. So go ahead and yeah. So I
wanted to paint that picture because we all seen
a veil, you know, a bride come down the aisle
and with that veil on, which you can't really
tell if she's crying and she's smiling. You can
see glimpses, but you don't fully get to see
the rawness of what she's going through walking
down that aisle. And the same thing, Shane. guilt,
regret, all of those things become a veil to
where we hide behind. We don't really show people
exactly what we're going through and that veil
becomes a barrier between us and God, keeping
us away from the true love, keeping us away from
that unconditional love, keeping us away from
the healing that we really desire to have. It
becomes a barrier and it's all based on 2nd Corinthians
318 where he says, we all with unveiling faces
like we're going through this transformation
but it's only when we begin to remove the veil
Moses had a veil to keep the people from seeing
the fading glory that was happening when he would
come down from the mountain and so Paul was encouraging
us to remove the veil because it's only when
the veil is removed that we get to experience
the fullness of what God has to offer us through
His Son, Jesus Christ. And so when we remove
that veil of shame, we get to experience that
because the veil happened in Genesis 3 when the
serpent You know told II did God really say that
and they ate the fruit and they said they became
naked and ashamed Yes, and we begin to cover
ourselves with those fig leaves when God is like
Who told you that you were naked like why do
we have to clothe ourselves? Why do we have to
hide our insecurities our shame? you know our
shamefulness our our guilt and regret when there
are safe places that provide us to where we can
come and remove the veil so that our hearts can
be touched so that our souls can be you know
met with such love and grace and compassion and
the things that we really need to fully be who
God created us to be and so we try to paint this
picture a perfect And so that people don't really
get to see or hear about the things that we've
experienced. But the Bible tells us that we overcome
by the blood of the Lamb and by the words of
our testimony. Yeah, and it's that testimony
of what Jesus has done in our life is what we
overcome because just to tell our stories flat
out is not glorifying it all but when we talk
about what Jesus done in our life That's a completely
different ballgame because we're yes, we are
who we were we are who he says we are Yes, yeah,
and that's all that matters. So yeah, it's beautiful
really beautiful. So you do some you work with
women correct? Just talk about that a little
bit. Tell us what you do Yes. So 2018, the Lord
was like, I need you to tell your story. And
so I hit a Moses and I said, find somebody else
to do it because who's talking about this? And,
and especially I didn't see people who looked
like me that was telling this story. The first
time I had ever heard of someone speaking about
this was after watching October baby and hearing
Sharon Rick be tell her story on What's his name?
Gosh, what's his name? It's a Christian TV show.
He's from I think he's from Louisiana And I can't
think of his name right now, but you would know
who I'm talking about Okay, but she was speaking
on his show. I think his name is James I'm not
gonna I'm not gonna butcher it. Okay. I'm just
gonna leave it at that But she was talking to
him and how she had That when she got cast for
that role, they didn't know that she had had
an abortion Oh But the end of that scene was
she's on the floor She's saying that that was
a real moment. That was a healing moment for
her because her husband didn't even know that
she had had one. But after shooting that video,
I searched it up and I was able to find a clips.
His name, his last name is Robinson, Robin, R
-O -B -I -S -O -N, Robinson. James Robinson?
No, the Duck Dynasty people. No, he's an older
gentleman. He's an older gentleman, white hair.
But he has a Cajun accent. But I'm watching her
interview with him. And I was like, that was
the first time I had ever heard of someone speak
about this out loud. And so God is like, tell
the story. I'm still like, I don't want to do
this. This is crazy. But the voice of the Lord
kept getting louder. And I finally gave in and
started sharing my story. And it was on podcast
interviews that I was doing it. And women started
reaching out to me and saying, I want you to
help me. And that was the first time I had ever
felt valued. That was the first time I had ever
looked at it where it was like, No matter how
oxymoron it sound. It was like God used abortion
to birth purpose in me Yeah, so having those
women to say I want you to help me and I'm like,
I don't know how to help, you know But my coach
at the time she was like you got life experience.
How did you get from here to here? This is how
you help them by taking them through the process
of what got you to here and so I've had the honor
of working with women from the Netherlands, Belgium,
New Zealand, I've had, you know, work with women
from across the US. And just hearing the testimonies,
because I didn't know that they offered pills
at the time, I only knew about the vacuum procedure.
But hearing these women say, I was sitting on
that floor and it took me two to three days to
really Get it out, you know of them and how they
didn't think that they could have children after
their procedures And so I've had two women I
know for sure They have reached out to me and
one she had a beautiful baby girl and she was
like it's because of you that I'm able to really
do this and I had another one who lives out of
the country. She has two beautiful baby girls
now. And it's just to see and understanding,
letting them know that abortion did not abort
the promises that God has for you. And so just
being able to help them even at a time where,
again, I didn't think that I had value, but the
Lord was like, I would take the foolish things
of the world to confound the wise. Let me show
you how I'm going to use this to bring me glory.
And so that's where I am. right now is helping
women understand that just like me you may have
prayed you know however many times that you prayed
but died. said he forgave you the very first
time that you pray. He threw it into the sea
of forgiveness and everything that we experience
now, helping them understand shame, regret and
guilt is not a cross that we have to bear. Yes,
there are crosses that we have to bear, but those
are not crosses that we are meant to carry. Jesus
took that upon, you know, the cross 2000 years
ago and to still carry that is to do a disservice
of what he did on Calvary. And so helping them
to understand that they are still daughters of
the king that God still wants to use them for
a purpose so dismantling the lies of the enemy
that I you know had to deal with helping them
to understand that God still wants you God still
loves you he still has a purpose and a plan for
you this is what Jesus did for you and you don't
have to deal with that right so you're doing
this by virtual are they coming to see you I
do virtual, but I do host retreats. I do have
retreats and I am in the process right now. We
have started a nonprofit called heal the womb.
And so we are getting things together so that
we can help. individuals as well as families
to disrupt the cycles of trauma that surrounds
reproductive loss and sending out care boxes
to women so that they can start the healing journey
and, you know, providing them with the support
that they need. And so, you know, just being.
shoulder you know for them and I always say one
of the things that I like to say I know where
I stand when it comes to abortion but when it
comes to the women of God and his daughters I'm
pro you what does your soul need right now you
know is it the is it the tough love is it the
compassion that you need right now You know,
the very thing that I received. So I'm pro -you.
I care about your soul. I don't care about the
pro -life, pro -choice because it is one of those
things that I feel like it divides us when we
are meant to help one another and still come
together, you know, as one. And so again, I know
where I stand, but I care about the souls of
his daughters. That's beautiful. So healing the
womb is not available for us to go and look at
yet right now. You can go to the site. We're
still building, but you can go to the site. It
is up and available for you to look at. And you
can fill out the form to get a care box. And
you can also, we have the option where you can
send a care box to someone. And so it's free
of charge. And we just want to be the hands and
feet of Jesus to start this journey. Yeah. What
kind of things are you putting in that care box?
So the care box will have a journal and we will
have devotionals as well as non -faith base because
we want it open to all. So we'll have faith base
as well as secular things in there. We will have
some comfy socks to make sure that you're comfortable.
We'll have candles and we'll have stress relief
balls. to help you in what I like to call, I
got this from the Reproductive Grief Institute.
And it is little breathing cards that teaches
you how to breathe through that, which I think
I sent you one. I think it may have been in your
book. It may have. I don't know where it is off
the top of my head. But it's a little breathwork
card. to teach you how to breathe, especially
when you're feeling anxious. And so I always
include those, even with my book, when people
buy them from me, I include that, you know, just
so that they can find comfort whenever they may
be triggered and they can, you know, have that
to take those deep breaths. So those are some
of the things that are included in that care
box. Okay. And that's, um, healingthewoom .com
or .org. .org, healthewoom .org. Heal the womb,
not healing. Okay, gotcha. Heal the womb .org.
All right. Well, I'm going to put that in the
show notes for sure. So if anybody wants to check
that out, they have that option and that resource.
I mean, it's a great resource to have, right?
Yeah. Latoya, Matthews, I am so thankful you
gave us your time today and shared your stories,
shared about your book, shared what you're doing,
and I'm excited. I'm excited for what God is
doing. He really is raising up an army, and that
to me is beautiful. Amen. Thank you so much.
It was a pleasure to be here and thank you so
much for the opportunity to be able to share.