Hello and welcome to Broadcast Focus, my name is Russell Trafford-Jones and thanks for joining me.

On this show we talk to the people behind the media and entertainment industry and today I'm very pleased to be joined by Georgiana Verdonck, Fractional CMO, Executive Coach and RISE Mentor.

Georgiana, welcome to the show.

Thank you, thanks for having me Russell.

It's nice to be here.

I'm very glad to have you with us and I think one thing that we were interested in talking about was mentoring and you're a RISE Mentor.

So first of all, anyone who's watched the show should know about RISE Women in Broadcast.

From your perspective, what is RISE?

How would you describe it?

RISE is a great programme for elevating women in the broadcast.

I think just recently when we were all at IBC we realised that the ladies' restroom, there isn't a line, it's not as long as the men's restroom, right?

I mean this is a good example just to show that there are not as many women in the broadcast industry at this point and what RISE does is to set up an official, if you like, a mentoring programme and they were developed two years ago, I believe it was founded two years ago, but yet this has grown remarkably.

We've now moved into this programme into various countries.

We're talking about Asia, Australia, Europe, where I'm based.

I'm based in Amsterdam and so I'm a mentor with them for Europe and it's a six-month cohort.

So we've got mentees that we're paired with.

My mentee is based in Norway.

So it's an official programme and I think it's really helpful because we work in many organisations and there isn't an actual official mentoring programme in all organisations.

So this is a way for women in the industry to reach out, join RISE and get paired up or work as a mentor or get paired up, if you're a mentee, with a mentor.

To me, I'm all behind this kind of official programme in addition to other organisations that are available, of course, in the broadcast industry right now.

What's the extent that RISE is operating outside of the UK, being a UK-based organisation?

Well, I guess for me, I've just joined them recently.

It's my first foray as a mentor.

I do feel that we are, I don't feel shortchanged that it was founded in the UK.

In Europe itself, we've got a good group of mentors and mentees.

For example, in Amsterdam, the three mentors, we've got three mentors and we meet up, you know, once every quarter.

And IBC was a great event which brought us together, mentees and mentors from the European region.

So I've got to meet, I've managed to meet many mentors and mentees during IBC.

And so I feel that the Europe cohort, you know, it's a great cohort.

And of course, you've got the UK cohort as well, and they probably meet within the UK, which is fine.

And in Europe, we've got different events going on, informal events as well.

And we all meet as a group.

And yeah, so.

That's good.

On top of the mentor-mentee relationship, you've also got that internal kind of relationship where everybody's kind of together, and that's nice.

And so what's your- Sorry, Russell, I just want to add, because it's about networking, isn't it, as well?

You know, it's about coming together.

It's a way to get us together.

It's a way to get like-minded people together.

Mentors, for example, we have a certain, you know, we like to do this.

We want to be able to mentor young, not just young, but any professionals actually in the broadcast industry, right?

So we've got that commonality, and that brings us together.

So and mentees alike, right?

I've seen them meet up at IBC networking events and drinks.

They've met up, they've grown stronger as a result of it.

And we boost each other's confidence that way, too, right?

So that's part of mentoring.

Yeah, that helps.

So what's your background in terms of, you know, your career and your, I guess, your perspective?

Because everyone has, I imagine, a slightly different view on the world or the corporate world.

And so what's, you know, how did you get into the industry and what have you done as you've come through and become a- well, in this case, you've become a RISE mentor, but I know that, you know, it's something that you believe in all the way through.

Yes, yeah.

So I've started my journey in my career.

I'm a clinically trained psychologist.

So I made an early pivot, you know, from the hospital settings into the corporate world.

And my corporate journey began with Motorola.

I was at Motorola Inc. for 17 years.

You know, I held senior roles across Chicago, London, where you are, and in Singapore.

And that was where I was developing kind of my strategic marketing and global brand leadership expertise.

So from there, I moved on into leading a digital marketing agency called Huble.

And I led the Asia Pacific business where I, you know, worked with global companies to establish the brand positioning strategies.

And then, well, most recently I was at Caton Technology.

I was the CMO and I helped them develop a comprehensive marketing transformation.

And today I now work as a fractional CMO where I partner with companies to help them differentiate themselves in competitive markets.

I think in the broadcast industry, you know, many times we walk around IBC and we try to understand what does this company do?

How does it differentiate itself from the other company?

Because it seems to say low latency too, you know.

Platforms as well.

You know, we use kind of the same words, but how do they differentiate themselves?

And I'm also, in addition to being a fractional CMO, I also serve as an executive coach and counselor where I help young or support young professionals in navigating their career and personal challenges.

So, you know, I'm kind of started off as a clinical psychologist and, you know, moved into the corporate world, different setting, but still always using psychology if you like.

And, you know, I'm passionate about helping young professionals as I see them.

And I think and I reflect and being a mentor, you know, you reflect on your career path and your journey and how and what were the stages in your career where you had that right mentor, you know, that helped guide you.

I've had a few, so I'm very lucky to have quite a number of mentors in my life, in my career, especially as I move to different cultures and different environments.

You know, I love to talk about how different, you know, when I got to the UK, I started working in London and I thought I got it set, you know, English is my first language.

I've got this, right.

And my mentor, I remember, you know, she said to me, you know, you might want to consider incorporating the word trousers in your vocabulary as opposed to pants.

And I thought that is such simple, constructive feedback, you know, and I'm like, thank you so much.

I forgot.

I've forgotten that the word pants has a different connotation.

But a mentor helped to bring that to life and helped me adjust into a different environment.

So I do feel that you pick up mentors along the way as you need them.

You know, you get to pick them and I'm sorry, I'm probably diverting from what your original question is, but this is how my journey has been as I reflect about my journey.

And therefore, I now am very passionate about helping young professionals, you know, walk that path.

So this is what I do now.

In terms of mentoring, I think that the way you talk about it, you say you kind of pick up mentors as you go along.

I think your approach or view of mentoring is that it's a, well, first of all, kind of an ongoing process, but it's not necessarily as organized as I think the word mentor in my mind kind of comes with like a process and some people behind it and a plan, some action.

But perhaps at the very least, we could say that for you, as the years have gone by, you've found certain people who have become mentors.

Is that just because they're nice people and they're automatically telling you stuff or was there a little bit more to and fro to that?

Good question.

So I think it's a combination of that, of what you've just described, right?

I think RISE is a great program.

And not just RISE, you've got like Women in Streaming Media, you know, you've got a few other organizations out there.

And if I think it's a professional or just, yeah, just anyone in the workplace, if you feel that it would benefit you to get a bit of guidance or some feedback, or even some advice, you know, it's good idea to reach out and start looking for a mentor.

Now, you could then join RISE, you know, a program like that if it's available.

And it is, I mean, for RISE, for example, you just go on your website, sign up, be a mentor or a mentee.

Now, another option, and this is in addition to what you're doing already with RISE, maybe, or, you know, is perhaps if you find somebody that's in your organization.

So when I was at Motorola, it can be quite daunting.

It's huge.

It's got different businesses, different cultures.

And, you know, I, as a young professional, I needed to figure my way around, right?

We think back about when we missed out on our first promotion, you know, or you felt that you were ready, you know, this was time for me to go get a promotion, but you were missed on, you know, you, I remember feeling really undervalued and unappreciated, you know, maybe Russell, you never had that feeling, you know, that's great.

You know, but I've had, I've gone through that.

And, and, you know, this is not, this is a new feeling for us.

Because, you know, we've gone through our school years where, you know, we study, we do what, what we're told to do, and we get up to the next level, right?

We keep progressing, you know, as long as we're being told, this is what you need to do, do your exams, you will progress.

Then you go into the corporate world.

And so why am I not getting, why am I not progressing?

You know, it's been two years, I've done everything my boss told me to do.

So why am I not progressing?

And, you know, and I, and I then came across this individual in my workplace.

And emotionally, we did not have a, or not in my business at that point, we did not have a formal mentoring program.

However, I, I came across this person who I would say was about maybe three levels above me.

You know, we had our grades, right?

And he's three to four levels above me, quite senior, but not too senior where he couldn't understand, couldn't relate to what I'm talking about.

Right?

So we're not talking about like the CEO who's like, what, you're feeling undervalued?

Don't remember that.

He's leading a department and he was somebody that I reached out to.

And he then said to me, you know what, would you like to engage in a mentor mentee relationship?

And that was my first foray.

You know, that was my first entrance into, Oh, okay.

Well, there's something called mentoring.

I can be a mentee.

And we, we met on a regular basis.

So we met once every two weeks.

And I talked about how I felt and, you know, how do I navigate things?

And, and, you know, and he gave me very different perspective into how I was thinking.

You know, I felt that my boss wasn't listening.

I was overworked and, and we, he managed to get me thinking that perhaps I'm just not communicating this.

My manager didn't know that I felt that way.

My manager didn't realize that I was feeling overwhelmed because, you know, I just took it on the chin.

Right.

I want to prove myself, you know, but having that feedback was so important for me because then I started speaking to my manager and he helped me.

My manager then helped me prioritize my task.

And I didn't quit.

I ended up working with Motorola for 17 years.

You know, I even then decided, okay, you know, actually I don't like HR that much.

I'm going to go into marketing, you know, so I, I received that self-confidence that I needed.

I also received some, some guidance about, you know, this is how you navigate the corporate world.

It's also about EQ.

It's also about being seen.

It's about communicating and perhaps you're not learning to communicate well enough, you know, things like that.

So that really helped me.

And I also learned to then pick out, pick up mentors, pick up mentors along the way from when I was in Chicago, London and in Singapore.

Yeah, it feels like to me, like mentoring, some people don't need it.

And I think those people therefore perhaps will kind of not really think about it or be confused about the concept because in a sense, it feels to me like it's, it's giving you a boost of awareness.

If you talk to children, teenagers about what they want to do in life, then often the answers that they come up with show a lack of general context and practicality.

And just because we pass on from 18 into a university, et cetera, it's not that we suddenly shared this lack of awareness, but some people are more, more self-aware.

So what I'm getting at is that it feels to me like if people look at it as a boost to help you just get that extra context, then that's really what we're trying to help people have.

And that it just gives you that little feedback, is that the right word, to, to know whether you're doing something right or, you know, whether you could course correct and do something better.

I think in that sense, sometimes it gets confused with coaching.

Right.

Because when you mentioned that just now about course correct, that could be also activated through coaching.

So if there is a, you know, if you feel that, okay, there's, there are certain skills that are missing and you would like a coach to help you to make those changes, you know, that, that is a kind of like a, like you said, cost correction.

You know, this is, this is how a coach can help you do that.

I see mentoring as something more of a, a longer relationship.

If you like, I still keep in contact with all my mentors.

You know, just like a little check, even if we don't do a official, let's meet every two weeks kind of deal.

You know, if I, whenever I'm in some way in my career where I feel, oh, I'm not sure if this is, you know, I should do this, if I should leave, or if I should, you know, if I should leave my current job to go on to something new and, and things like that, you know, I reached out to them.

So they know me so well by now.

Right.
They've seen me.

So it's more of a, to me, at least it's more of a relationship.

It's also a way to kind of network.

Right.
I've known, I've known of mentors.

In fact, at IDC, I've talked to quite a number of mentors in the RISE program and, and they are excited to advocate for their mentees.

You know, they've spoken to them.

They see the value these individuals bring to the industry and they're excited.

They go around, you know, advocating for them, which is a great thing.

I love it.

And, you know, we talk about how, oh, you know, we're struggling.

We can't find the right people can't find the right talent.

And then you have these mentors, you know, advocating for their mentees.

It's, it's, it's wonderful because they see a side to them, you know, and they have that network and they're extending their own network to their mentees.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, that's great.

I mean, in terms of mentoring, you, we've got these kind of three areas.

You've got the, the informal mentors that you pick up along the way, like as we've discussed, we've got some organizations like RISE, which are specifically trying to embolden and strengthen a specific part of demographic of the industry.

And then I guess there's also a kind of official company led mentor schemes, which, which I think from your, from your perspective, you probably think is, is, is a good idea, but it can always be done badly if.

I agree.

Yes.

I mean, I think it's good because typically organizations don't force that upon you, right.

When it's a mentoring program that kind of suggests that.

So, you know, it takes away the connotations because, you know, if you, it can go wrong as you can tell, you know, like if you have a team and you highlight a person in your team and you say, Oh, would you like to join the mentoring program?

Now that can be seen as a, you know, does she think I'm not good enough, you know, or it's just a slap on the wrist, right?

It could be seen the other way.

Yes.
It could be seen the other way.

So we need to have that conversation with the employees to say, or with your team to say, Hey, you know, that's a good, it's a good thing.

We are, you know, mentoring shouldn't be seen as a slap on the wrist, nor should coaching by the way.

Right.

So now I'm advocating for myself, but you know what I mean?

Yeah.

It's like, and, and official, official company led mentoring is good.

And it can go wrong because sometimes the mentors, uh, it depends again on the pairing as well, right?

Your men, the men, a good mentor is somebody who has certain characteristics, right?

It's not just somebody who thinks, you know, I should be a mentor because, uh, I'm going to get ahead in my career.

You know, I'm going to be seen.

Um, you know, I, I'm going to be seen in good light because I'm doing this because, you know, I'm, I'm so great.

That might be some warning signs there, right.

Uh, you know, I think it's, it's not about knowledge and experience only, you know, it, it requires empathy.

Uh, I think it's good to train leaders to have empathy.

So in that sense, I think I say it's good if we're training someone to be a mentor, right?

I would say that it's, and it's not necessarily somebody who's a superstar.

Like I mentioned just now, a CEO, if you pair that person up with somebody who's junior, that's a little, it's a little too, um, far removed from, um, reality or, or it's just like, how do you know, sometimes experts are not able to tell you the steps as to what makes them an expert, right?

They're just an expert.

Um, they may not be able to relate to a novice.

And so, um, it's also someone who's, who is passionate about helping other people grow, right.

They don't have a big ego.

It's not about, okay.

I'm, you know, as you know, sometimes mentoring can come up really poorly because the mentor tells or instructs a mentee, um, or what to do and expect the mentee to do it.

So then you get a mentee who's overly stressed because he or she has their work duties, whatever they need to do to get through the day.

Plus all these activities that the mentor has on them.

So it's about a good listener.

It's about someone who actually listens to the mentee.

Not all mentees want to change jobs or to change roles.

Right.

But the mentor needs to listen to that, needs to appreciate that and, and, and talk to them about, you know, what is it that the mentee wants to accomplish?

I, I had a mentee who, um, really just wanted to know, how do I just stop yelling?

Um, you know, and, and, and, and if I was to go, Oh, but then, you know, you need to get ahead in your career.

You need to do this.

You need to do that because I need to look good.

Yeah.
Yelling.

Oh, well, that's a small bit, you know, like, yeah, just, just don't yell.

Right.

That, that is not that, that, that relationship, that's not going to grow.

You need to listen to your mentee.

What is it that they want to overcome?

And then you share your experience.

You know, you share experience like, Oh yeah, you know, I've, I've had a few times where I have sent out an email that I shouldn't have.

Um, and what I did was I, you know, I had to take, I had to type it out and then wait for 10 minutes before I send that.

Right.

I mean, it seems so simple.

It's just like such a simple advice.

Um, but perhaps that's what the mentee needs to hear at that point.

Right.

That simple advice.

So it's not about your ego.

It's not about showing off.

Um, so yeah, so unfortunately sometimes official programs can go a little wrong.

Yeah.

So I think that's the, you know, it's pros and cons.

I think it, a company should be willing to step up and invest in their, in their staff.

And you know, if you, particularly for a larger company, if you, you know, if you find a group of mentors and you're willing to turn down certain people who want to be a mentor, but they shouldn't be, then, um, you know, I think that that is a, that should be something that they can boast about almost and say, you know, come on board.

You know, we look after you, we've got these benefits, blah, blah, blah.

And you've also got, we've got a strong mentor, mentoring program.

But I guess one of the stronger things about having an external organization that specializes in mentoring is, is perhaps it's more likely to have a better outcome potentially.

Yeah.

And it's also about, um, the ease of someone offering the mentee, uh, you know, because it's, we, we all, we all know that whatever that we all have been trained, right.

That confidentiality.

Um, and of course in the official mentoring program, um, you would train the mentors and the mentees that whatever you speak, you know, one-on-one it's a safe place.

It shouldn't be taken out of that context.

Right.

Um, and a mentor should not be going around to somehow talk about, uh, or, or take action on behalf of the mentee, but sometimes in organizations that can happen.

So, so then mentees, maybe in a, in a official program that's outside the organization, they might feel a little more at ease about sharing, um, how they truly feel about their boss.

Sure.

And that helps.

And also a really good program, um, is the reverse mentoring program that, uh, was first introduced or at least first that we know of, um, was introduced by Virgin Atlantic, the CEO of Virgin Atlantic, then, um, I have to remember what his name is.

Um, he encouraged, um, this, and it's a great book.

That's a great book out on that.

It's, uh, uh, authored by Patrice Gordon on reverse mentoring.

Um, so she was asked to develop the program within Virgin Atlantic.

Um, and, and the premise was to have the premise of the, of the program is to have a junior employee mentor, a senior, uh, man senior management team.

So it could be, yeah, yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah.
Senior management team.

And that way, um, somebody in the senior rank would start to understand more about the perspectives of, uh, from junior employees.

So it, it boosts us, it fosters inclusivity, right.

Um, and when you think about the broadcasting industry, very often we talk about, you know, are we missing out?

You know, like, Oh, there's a lot of sessions that we attend, right.

The DPP session.

I mean, that there's so many of these events, uh, IABM.

And very often we say, well, are we missing out on the younger generation?

One, you know, industry trend reports talk about, okay, it's broadcast old, you know, younger generation doesn't even know the term TV.

Right.
I have a 16 year old.

What does that mean?

Um, you know, so we want to hear from the younger generation.

So many of us in C-suite, you know, we, uh, we feel like we're missing out.

Well, isn't this a great program then do reverse mentoring because it's, it's a two way, um, relationship because the junior employees start to feel that they are being seen.

They're being heard that the management team appreciates them.

Right.

And what a boost of confidence.

If you're asked as a junior employee to be a mentor to the CEO, the CFO, the COO, right.

That's like a super boost to your morale.

Um, and so this is, I think a really good program that organizations can think about, you know, incorporating.

Yeah.

Again, it's something you can be proud of and it's part of, uh, your overall, um, suite of things that you're doing for your, your employees.

Um, to, to highlight there's three organizations, um, that's probably worth talking about.

Um, so Broadcast Academy Mentorship Program.

I've just looked at it cause I'm thinking, you know, this might be something that, um, I, I would be interested in registering as the mentor.

Um, I know they have been around.

Um, it seems to me that they've been around, um, for quite a bit now.

It's a more European focus.

It seems to be more European focused, uh, to your point about whether RISE is more UK centric.

Um, I didn't think so, but at the same time, you know, I, I looked at that thinking, um, this, this might be a good opportunity to get involved as well.

Um, the other one was Women in Streaming Media, and then it brought to my attention because, uh, now we're doing IBC, uh, just the recent IBC, the, the, the female, uh, CTO, uh, Tama, Tama Shah, I'm not sure.

I'm not sure you're pronouncing her name correctly.

Sorry, Tama.

Um, but she, you know, she attributed that success, um, to that innovative environment, you know, to the diverse culture that they have at Beamr.

And I thought, you know, and then at that point she encouraged women to join Women in Streaming Media and its mentorship program.

So, you know, I thought that that was, um, a great shout out.

Uh, and so, yeah, I'm also looking into, into perhaps, joining them and maybe join them as a mentee as well.

You know, if you'd like to, um, look for a mentor.

I've not had one yet since I've been in Amsterdam.

So, yeah, time to, time to establish one for me.

And of course, uh, Rise Women in Broadcast.

Yes, of course.

Is here.

Yes.

Shout out to them.

Yep.

It's a great program and I love how enthusiastic all the cohorts have been.

Um, I've met mentees and mentors from different cohorts, so not this current cohort, but the previous ones, and they're all involved and they have only good things to say about, right.

So, you know, watch their space as I would say, right.

I mean, yes, it's, and, and I love how they have good, big plans, um, to, to expand further and to expand globally.

And I think they're doing a great job there.

Um, so, so it'd be interesting to see what more they do.

Indeed.

Um, uh, I, I, I echo, uh, your, uh, what you say there, I haven't heard any, um, any bad things about, about Rise.

And as you say, it's more of a, um, I think cause it's a relatively short program, um, for six months, but it's, it's almost just lighting, um, the, the, the fuse because in general, people, as you say, continue to talk, continue to be, to be friends.

The network continues longer beyond the six months.

And although the six months also include some, uh, structured activities, including, you know, you know, presentations and, uh, and, uh, various skills, um, which is, which is fantastic idea, which is something we haven't really touched on and, um, you know, but nothing to stop a company, um, mentorship program, um, having those attributes as well.

Um, no, that's part of the Rise thing, but, you know, there's, I think I would imagine very few of the pairings stop talking after six months and, uh, it's much more of a longer term, um, yeah, relationship for, for both sides.

I agree.

And I think, you know, and thanks for bringing that up.

I'd forgotten to talk about the structure.

Oh, Carla's going to get upset with me for that.

Yes.

That's one thing that I, I, I feel that mentees have had really good feedback about the training sessions that they have.

Um, and I'm learning from that as well, because, you know, when I have my conversation with my mentee and she's telling me about LinkedIn and she's teaching me, she's, she's guiding me and I'm like, Oh gosh, I need to do learning.

I need to improve my LinkedIn profile and things like that.

And all the great tips that she's got, she's passing on to me.

So, you know, it's a win-win situation.

Um, and back to mentoring and in a, with an official program, the way it's set up, I do feel that in addition to the, the relationship that you set up between the mentor and the mentee, um, you've got then a, the mentees going off even outside this cohort, the current cohort, once they've gone past that it's like muscle merroy, it's like building muscle, right?

You, you now have this experience, a great experience, of being a mentee and you can build up more.

So, you know, that you've got this trained insight on how do I spot my next mentor, right?

Whether it's within your organization or not.

So practice makes perfect, I think, right?

So then from an official program, you can then move on to an unofficial program.

So even if your organization doesn't have a official program, you know how to be a mentee, you know how to spot a good mentor and you may want, and you may also become a mentor in your organization.

So I think it's only a great habit to have.

So yeah, and I think that it is, you know, looking back from my own experience, I think it's definitely the case that I would have benefited at certain times from, from, from having a mentor.

And the one, one, the one mentor that was foisted upon me wasn't the perfect pairing.

We can say that for sure.

But the, but that was the key word, forced.

Well, exactly, exactly.

And whereas, you know, I think for, for a well thought out program and for a large enough organization, that, that makes a lot of sense.

I like the angle of, of not needing an organization.

It's certainly hard, perhaps the first time, especially alluded to, to say, all right, spot somebody and talk to them about setting up some sort of regular meeting.

But on the other hand, it's certainly once you've done it once, hopefully you've got that umph in you to do it again.

That muscle memory helps, it kicks in.

Well, look, thank you Georgiana for, for joining me and talking about that.

Cause I, I do think that in a, in an industry which is as small as ours, it's really important and possibly even easier to have this type of mentoring officially and officially small or large.

And I don't know that we talk about it enough, so appreciate you digging into it and sharing your thoughts on it today.

Oh, thank you, Russell.

This was really great conversation.

I really enjoyed it.

Hope to speak to you again soon.