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It's not necessarily realistic to take some of these things back to your department and

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expect that they're going to happen immediately, right?

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So how do we give practical, actionable things to individuals that they can apply on a regular

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basis?

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Welcome to the Firefighter Crasmship Podcast where we coach you to deal with the stressors

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of the job as a first responder as well as how to thrive off duty.

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My name is Kevin Housley, a Huber Performance Coach and a firefighter since 2005.

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I've been able to coach over a thousand emergency responders on ways to be more resilient, better

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prepared for the job, and how to be happier and healthier at home.

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Let's get to it.

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All right, welcome back to the Firefighter Crasmship Podcast.

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Today we have an awesome guest, Mr. Jesse Clark, who's a captain with Boise Fire Department,

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and we're going to dive pretty deep into relevant stuff around wellness and maybe shake the

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wellness trees a little bit today.

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So thanks for coming on the podcast, Jesse.

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Yeah, Kevin.

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Thanks for having me.

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I'm excited to be here.

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Excited to finally meet you face to face.

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We've only been communicating for just a short amount of time around the Forging Wellness

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Conference, which we'll kind of talk about.

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And so tell us a little bit about who you are and why it's relevant.

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You're on the Firefighter Crasmship Podcast.

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Sure.

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Yeah.

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So, Jesse Clark, originally from Montana, grew up a farm boy.

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Just looked at the population of my small town.

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It's 184 these days.

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And just found a passion for the first responder space way back when and have just devoted a

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ton of time to it.

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And luckily I got graced with really good mentors early on in my career that just knowledge

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shared, right?

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And that's something that I really want to carry forward.

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And so took over, been a first responder for 18 years now, been with Fire for eight

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years and took over fitness lead for my department two years ago to start making some changes

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towards wellness.

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And we developed a lifetime wellness group that then me and our peer support lead, Ashley

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Rosenbaum, came up with this idea for our Forging Wellness Conference.

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Awesome.

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Okay.

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So, where does that draw the passion, if you will, towards wellness?

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Where does that kind of come from?

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Is it from farm boy strength or where does that come from?

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Yeah.

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I mean, I grew up playing team sports for sure.

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So I've just always, you know, I've actually, I've had my own roller coasters with wellness

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up and down.

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You know, you go on and play some college sports and man, you eat a dump truck worth

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of food and you're working out two or three times a day.

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And then once that stops and you're still eating a dump truck worth of food, but you

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don't have the same activity, it changes, right?

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So, but I've always, I've just always valued my fitness and my ability to do things and

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take care of those around me in every aspect.

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And as I've started to get more and more into this space, started with kind of get my cross

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fit level two, being a coach around the area here for a while, but it really came around

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that this is a very holistic thing, right?

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It all intertwines.

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Mental health, you know, combines with physical health.

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Our sleep has so much to do with whether we were able to even get up and do fitness, have

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the energy and motivation to do fitness, right, which then obviously when we're in a good

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space for doing that, we typically choose healthy habits for eating, right?

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So just really come in full circle on that holistic view of wellness.

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And then really in my, my own space, dealing with a number of pretty significant events

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just prior to COVID actually, I got to really witness firsthand what some of that tragedy

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can really do and impact a person and how it compounds the other way.

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So that like job related calls and things like that, or you know, definitely don't need

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to go into specifics, but give us like a cursory over.

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It's okay.

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I'm really happy to actually talk about it because I, like I said, I have really good

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mentors who really pushed me to take a proactive approach to my overall wellness anyway, especially

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in the mental health space.

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And so one of the tips I got early on was, hey, have a, have a counselor that you can

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become friends with that you can have in your back pocket, right?

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Not that you need to go to them like on a weekly basis throughout your entire career.

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But if there's ever that time where something happens, they're there, right?

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You don't have to wait to get on the list.

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And I know as we probably all experienced during COVID, if, if you had something where

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you need to get in, whether it was to see a physician or a counselor during that time,

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like the wait list were out of control.

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And so I actually had a friend co-worker kill himself at work.

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And I was the one who found him the morning of and it, as soon as that happened, I knew

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that that was something that like, I, I wasn't prepared for.

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That I'm never prepared for anything quite like that.

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But being that I had that counselor in my back pocket, I had reached out right away,

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was able to get in and deal with that right up front without any wait time, which allowed

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me to utilize, I feel like a lot of these other resources that I built up over my lifetime,

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such as my fitness routine, such as healthy habits, such as, you know, trying to stay

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on top of my sleep and getting the right amount.

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And so just very proactive is what's really kind of kept me in this.

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Yeah, that's some tragic stuff, man.

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So sorry, you had to go through that for sure.

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But it's, it's pretty great that you've, you're resilient through that based on the systems

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and processes that, you know, people had gifted you the advice on really, really good stuff.

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And it doesn't, it doesn't diminish like that event by any means.

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But now it's also empowered you to kind of share, hey, these, these are things that also

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helped me get through that and can help everybody, you know, depending on whatever their stage

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is in their own personal wellness.

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So let's, let's kind of talk about what does wellness really mean to you?

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You know, that's kind of the new buzzword that we hear kicked around.

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So like, what are you guys doing up there in Idaho or what does wellness mean to you

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overall?

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Like when you say wellness, what does that term mean?

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Yeah, that's a really good, it's a loaded question.

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I feel like we, you're right, it is a buzzword and a number of times as we were even getting

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into exploring this conference, we were like, are we just using all the same buzzwords that

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everybody else is using resiliency, you know, but wellness truly, it, it has to be so holistic

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in my mind.

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But wellness really is understanding that we have an incredible career in the fire service

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as first responders, because of the neat things that it allows us to do and impact other people's

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lives and support our communities.

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So it's not all doom and gloom.

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We have an awesome, awesome job that we can be really good at.

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And but with that comes an exposure to things that the general public doesn't see on a regular

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basis and the truth of the matter is, is that that can be tough and it can weigh heavy on

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people.

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And so when those things do culminate to really weigh us down or impact us significantly,

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we have to be able to deal with it.

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Right.

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And so basically it's not always about balancing back.

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It's stand strong and have fun, because that's what this is.

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It's fun.

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And we do a lot of cool things.

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But the reality is we have to be prepared and have the tools in place to battle the

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things when they, when they happen, right.

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So the, the thing that we've kind of talked about, right, is a lot of times there's a

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lot of first responders who have survived this career.

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And we don't, we don't want people just surviving.

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We want them to thrive in this career and beyond it.

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Yeah.

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Really good stuff there.

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And you've covered some parts and pieces of wellness so far.

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You've talked about, you know, why fitness is important in your life.

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And it sounds like from a pretty young age, right?

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If you were able to play collegiate athletics, you, you were committed to whatever that sport

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was for a long amount of time and fitness is a part of any sport, right.

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And then obviously, you know, with your involvement as the fitness lead for Boise fire, that's

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going to be bad.

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And you mentioned the good old CrossFit word as well.

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So some people like it when they heard that.

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But again, you know, like I've said before on the podcast is I don't really care what

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your feeling is on CrossFit.

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Don't don't throw away the good stuff from any athletic program just because of the word

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and whatever the connotation is around it, right?

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Like he didn't, he didn't talk about how many, what his fran time was during CrossFit or

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anything like that.

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So like just be realistic around wellness, but you've also talked, you know, a lot of

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times when we hear wellness, we hear, oh yeah, we have a peer support program.

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It's like, that's awesome, man.

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And I hope it's effective.

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I hope people are actually using it.

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That's not a wellness program.

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Like that's a part in a piece of wellness.

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So if you've already talked about that, like a clinical psychologist or clinician, you

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know, that you're a counselor that you're able to use, that's a part of wellness.

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Fitness is a part of wellness.

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You've talked a lot about sleep is a massive part of wellness that in the fire service

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specifically, we just continue to be like, oh, well, that's just not attainable because

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we work 24 hours shifts, which is complete nonsense.

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And so, you know, of course, we're probably not going to go down the nutrition thing because

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it's kind of like when I say CrossFit, you know, or you say nutrition, then you hear

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about the newest whatever diet they're on or whatever thing that they're chasing.

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And it's like, okay, dude, if that works for you, that's great.

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But just because I'm doing something different doesn't mean that it's necessarily wrong either,

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you know.

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And so there's all these parts and pieces about wellness.

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And I think that's really, really important for us to look at.

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And like, in your opinion, like what's an organization's role in wellness?

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Yeah.

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Oh, yeah, that's a really good one.

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So as we as my department has really started to create some pillars of wellness and look

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at it kind of in the same way.

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But honestly, it really does come down to creating that culture to go along with it.

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Right.

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Sometimes we think there needs to be documents or policies and procedures related to some

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of these things.

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And while that's not bad to have accountability for certain things along those lines, it can't

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be done without creating a culture around it.

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And so I'll give a plug, right, for South Metro.

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So the whole, like, as we are moving into this space and we are networking and marketing

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to build forging wellness, part of that included going down to South Metro, meeting with Chris

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Macklin and his team and seeing, you know, their approach to wellness within an organization.

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And Chris will be the first one to tell you that they are obviously blessed with a decent

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amount of money to be able to do things that they need to.

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But that doesn't mean it's unattainable for any department, right?

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And then as I brought that back and I really kind of dove into it, that's what I found,

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right?

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So they have implemented some of the WFI stuff as far as having certain standards for certain

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things that they hold their people accountable to.

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What they did and talking to all of their people down there is none of them are concerned

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about any of those things coming up because they know that they are supported in that

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by the department, right?

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The department's not out to get them.

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The department's there to support them to make sure that the time that they are off

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the line is less and less and that they can take this career all the way to retirement

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and have a long retirement, right?

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I think the other thing that departments really do have to start looking at is something similar

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to what South Metro is doing with their expert approach because we've done this for years,

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right?

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And it's a good old boy approach that is awesome because we really do a lot of things internally,

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right?

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We are tacticians.

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We go out, we get stuff done, but strategically, that's not always the best way to approach

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things, right?

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So looking at that expert vendor model, if we were to compare it just to a peer fitness

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program, right?

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So comparing peer fitness to bringing in experts of strength and conditioning or PT, whatnot,

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peer fitness is great.

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That program was super great.

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They started it.

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We started people down the road of, here is some tools to help people within your department.

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But as we have also tried to balance work and life, it is a lot harder for us to spend

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an hour of our time with like that we would normally have with our families to go in off

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duty to do something with a crew, right?

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But if I bring in an expert and just to go a little bit further, while peer fitness is

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really great program, it does not equip people well enough to actually develop people in

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a fitness way, right?

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You don't know all the finer details of watching people move and diagnosing, oh, that movement

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pattern is not correct.

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And here's why, and here's how to fix it so that we don't have those nagging injuries

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that occur from that later on, right?

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So now we shift that focus to looking at an expert vendor model, and we've got a strength

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and conditioning coach.

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And I see like, cool, I'm going to plug a strength and conditioning coach in with my

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recruit Academy, right?

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That's my first thought, right?

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Ground up approach.

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That's they create programming for the entire recruit Academy that takes them, you know,

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a good amount of build up time, maybe a month or two prior to Academy to make sure that

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it's built out appropriately for the schedule.

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But then while recruit Academy is going on, that's one hour out of either three or five

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days during the week that that strength and conditioning coach is committed to during

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their normal 40 hour work week, right?

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So it's it's nothing.

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So then my utilization of that person has so many other options, right?

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Because I am essentially only taking one hour one hour out of their day.

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Well, the remaining hours that they have left, I can send them out to meet with crews or

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have them work on something entirely different versus asking my guys who are already on the

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line already doing the job to try and do the same things on their own free time.

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00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:57,520
Well, I mean, they might get some overtime for it, but really we're we already have guys

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working 14 hours over a normal work week schedule, right?

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Because we work 54, you know, average on our rotating 40 and 96 here.

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And so I'm asking them to give more on top of the 14 hours extra that they already work.

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So yeah, if I can grab a person and hire them to take an hour out of their work week to

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do that, like it's a lot more successful.

245
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,720
So that's just one approach, right?

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That's only one area.

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And just because I find it so easy to like relate it in that fitness realm.

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Yeah, a great conversation that we've had in the fire service for a really, really long

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time around fitness.

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But I mean, you know, from traveling around the country or taking conferences or classes

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or talking to people, you know, culturally, it kind of depends on which area of the country

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you're in, you know, so you talk about culture of an organization.

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But what's like the just a real quick answer on what's the culture of fitness in Idaho,

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especially in Boise?

255
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:07,040
Yeah.

256
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Yeah.

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But thankfully for I would say our valley as a whole is a pretty tight, tight knit valley.

258
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We have four or five good departments right in this area.

259
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:32,000
And the the culture has shifted to being a fitness culture already in this area, right?

260
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And that that's just come from personalities that we've looked at hiring and brought in.

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Plus, I think it has been really led by some of our our leaders throughout the years.

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I know for my department, my current deputy chief of operations was the one who really

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started to shift that approach by making sure all of our stations were equipped with gym

264
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equipment and that we actually had something for our recruit Academy so that we could set

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that culture early.

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Like we understand that this is a career that you need to be fit in for so many reasons.

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And so we're going to set that precedence early on in your career.

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And that's that's really where it started.

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We don't have any accountability necessarily in writing for some of that stuff now.

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But we do have a really good culture.

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Yeah.

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And I would venture to guess just based on, you know, surrounded by the mountains and

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stuff like that, the community as a whole is hedges more towards being outside and going

274
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on hikes and riding their bikes and all of that sort of stuff, right?

275
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Yeah.

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It's the the Boise area here is is really just a very cool atmosphere.

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We've got the foothills.

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So yeah, we've got we've got mountain bikers.

279
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We got rafters, ski snowboarders.

280
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So it is a very much a fit community of people who like to get outside and do stuff.

281
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Yeah.

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And so it's very much like here in northern Colorado, you know, same same topography and

283
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:24,400
stuff like that and, you know, the culture around being outside, going to the breweries,

284
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:25,920
like all of that sort of stuff.

285
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And that's a huge win for us in areas like that.

286
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:34,640
Or, you know, the people down south Colorado, South Metro, like just south of the Denver

287
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,800
Metro area for those of you that are not familiar with that fire department.

288
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We have some advantages on areas like Boise or northern Colorado or, you know, other pockets

289
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:51,040
in the country and from getting to go out and teach some classes, you know, like at

290
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,480
the Metro Atlanta firefighter conference, MFC.

291
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,960
We've gotten to be down there a few times and we've gotten to work with some people

292
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:03,000
that are really trying hard to establish cultures of fitness or wellness.

293
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,380
And man, oh man, they have an uphill battle.

294
00:22:05,380 --> 00:22:10,120
So for those of you out there, utilize your resources that, you know, when Jesse talked

295
00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:15,840
right from the jump about like, get those mentors early, and that's one of the coolest

296
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:16,840
things.

297
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:21,000
Jesse, now we're kind of talking about how COVID changed the world in relation to basic

298
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,160
skills training.

299
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:29,320
But it also changed it in a positive way where now we have, you know, a podcast explosion,

300
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,920
we have tons of online resources, we're going to kind of talk about some stuff that Jesse

301
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,120
and his team are doing in that regard.

302
00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:43,280
So you can create mentorship, use resources like myself, use Jesse, figure out those small

303
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:47,720
wins if you're having a hard time, you know, I got a chance to talk to a really small department

304
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,480
in Louisiana not that long ago.

305
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:55,920
And they are, they're having a hard time getting a minimum fitness standard at all.

306
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:57,080
They don't currently have one.

307
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,360
They're a career fire department.

308
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:04,120
The union is actually actively working against them to get that because they're scared, right?

309
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:08,520
People don't want to get fired over fitness, but I mean, they're shooting for an eight

310
00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,840
met minimum, right?

311
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:15,920
And so, and they know that people on their jobs, some of those unfortunately won't make

312
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:16,920
that.

313
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:22,800
And so they have a much harder hill to climb than your ID, just based on like cultural implications

314
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,920
of our region, nothing to do with our departments.

315
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:26,920
Yeah.

316
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:32,440
And that's something actually I'll to interrupt you real quick and kind of go back to that

317
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:37,400
something that's really cool that I was a part of that we just finished.

318
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:42,080
So one of the speakers that we had lined up for our Forging Wellness conference is named

319
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,080
Eric Haskins.

320
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,600
He's a firefighter out at Nampa.

321
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:53,840
Him and I have been really good friends for a long time and just have done a lot of neat

322
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:54,840
things together.

323
00:23:54,840 --> 00:24:04,760
One of the things that we did do was actually implement a new entry level fitness test.

324
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:10,160
So as we were looking at it within this area, so we don't typically, Idaho doesn't typically

325
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,600
use the national testing network.

326
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:19,000
And so for us to utilize the CPAT, like a lot of states do, can be challenging because

327
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:25,400
we don't have sites specific set up to post the CPAT.

328
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,280
And so then it looks like each individual department kind of doing it on their own.

329
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:37,160
And that ends up being a lot of resources used, a lot of different offerings of that

330
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,920
and not really sustainable.

331
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:46,960
So we actually created a new entry level fitness test designed somewhat around the ACFT.

332
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,520
So we call it the FPFT.

333
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,120
We went through the process last year.

334
00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:57,720
My department supported validating that test.

335
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:06,920
So we went through a full validation process and got that completely run through and proved

336
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:13,240
which is super exciting to us because now we have this five event test that actually

337
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:22,280
has minimum standards for physical fitness requirements coming into the job.

338
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:30,000
And we already have two departments utilizing it in the area with a third about to join

339
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,680
in the next month or so.

340
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:37,960
And I think that's going to be a huge win for a lot of different departments in a lot

341
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,160
of ways, right?

342
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:47,800
I get that the CPAT works, it was validated back in 97, I believe, is when they validated

343
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,320
that and works well in a lot of areas.

344
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:56,960
But for our area and potentially for other places, this is a really cool way to not have

345
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:05,120
a lot of resources, but still test on some minimum fitness standards.

346
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:09,320
Because the cool thing is once you put the documentation out, people could go to any

347
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:15,560
gym in the nation and get prepped and prepared for this test.

348
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,680
So that's actually just going back to your previous question of how my department is

349
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,680
helping develop a culture of fitness.

350
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:24,680
That's one of the ways.

351
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:25,680
Yeah, that's good stuff.

352
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:27,880
They supported going through that.

353
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,560
Really good because it's like start where your boots are and then try to figure out

354
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:36,360
what can we do based on the resources that we have and the climates that we have to navigate

355
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:40,200
and hopefully you have people around you, especially decision makers at the top of the

356
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:45,640
organization that are willing to say, yeah, let's fact check all of this stuff, but we

357
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,240
got to do something.

358
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,960
And so that's just a really good proactive thing that at a low level in the organization,

359
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,320
you're able to make a tremendous impact.

360
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,280
And now that impact is at three, four departments.

361
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:58,280
It's really, really cool.

362
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:05,080
And I think a lot of that what you talked about, the expert model, bringing in experts,

363
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,320
we've seen that, you know, you're like, Hey, do you have a wellness program?

364
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,160
Yeah, we have a strength and conditioning coach.

365
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:10,160
Okay.

366
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,240
Well, like, are they a former emergency responder or what?

367
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,600
Oh, no, they just graduated undergrad, right?

368
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:21,160
And like, we pay them 50,000 bucks a year, even though you can't even rent an apartment

369
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,080
based on our region of the country or whatever.

370
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,600
And they last for five months and then they're not effective because they don't know anything

371
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,120
about the job.

372
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:30,880
They don't understand the work cycle.

373
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:35,400
They don't understand that it's not just all a bro session to Jim and sets and reps like

374
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,840
that you have to ebb and flow.

375
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:43,400
They don't understand that the career, especially in the fire services on average 25 years or

376
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:44,960
so.

377
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:52,400
And your game is different when you're a 22, 24 year old recruit than when you're a 55

378
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:58,400
year old officer or firefighter or engineer or whatever, like, you have to train differently.

379
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:03,800
And so I think that that's a big progression that we're finally starting to see of the

380
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:04,880
expert model.

381
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,480
You got to pay for them.

382
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,600
However, when you put your money where your mouth is, it actually doesn't only save your

383
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:12,680
department money.

384
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:18,240
It's a revenue generator, but it's a revenue generator that's kind of hard to track, right?

385
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:24,200
So you talked about, okay, PFTs are great, but they may not actually have the education

386
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,080
on like, oh, that's probably not the best way to lift because they're not doing a functional

387
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,080
movement screening.

388
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,160
And a functional movement screening should come from like a professional, like a doctor

389
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:39,840
of PT or something like that, not some dude who just worked a 72 and is now like, oh,

390
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,880
I'm trying not to die, but I'm doing a functional movement screen because my department's paying

391
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:45,760
me overtime to do it.

392
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,840
And so there's a lot of options there.

393
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:53,360
And a lot of times your health insurance and your HR teams can really help you like, man,

394
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,080
oh man, we didn't even know this was something that was offered from our vendor or health

395
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,320
insurance company.

396
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,760
Let's work with a local community member that's willing to come and they'll spend two weeks

397
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,080
and they'll do functional movement screening.

398
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,360
And again, like if we say I've moved terrible, right?

399
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,520
Like I got to do mobility stuff all the time.

400
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,880
My hamstrings are strung like a piano.

401
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:18,680
And so, you know, I have to intentionally work on that stuff and I don't feel like it

402
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,040
ever gets better, but hopefully it's injury prevention.

403
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,360
And so that's a hard thing for us to track is we don't really know if you would have

404
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,560
gotten hurt or not.

405
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,320
And then, you know, when budget season comes, it's like, whoa, is this valuable?

406
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,680
Prove it when you have a bean counter that's involved?

407
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,800
It's like, no.

408
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,560
And so I guess now a good thing, maybe even if you're trying to start where your boots

409
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,240
are is start capturing data.

410
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,320
How many light duty injuries or how many, you know, if you have a light duty program,

411
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:54,200
what's workers comp look like, capture it now, try to trend that over the last 15, 20

412
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:55,760
years, if you can.

413
00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,120
And then if you finally get them to take a risk, even if it's one day a week, did it

414
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,120
make an impact?

415
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:06,840
I mean, it does, you know, and it actually generates revenue for your department, whether

416
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:13,120
your EMS, police, fire, it might even generate, you might even see numbers where, well, we

417
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,320
don't really have good numbers on workers comp.

418
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:20,400
But we last year, we lost whatever percentage of our workforce.

419
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,840
And we started doing some of this stuff and we have people sticking around.

420
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,520
Like that's a win, you know?

421
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,080
So I think there's a lot of ways to do this that isn't just like, well, we want to create

422
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:34,720
this massive optimization program and they're not supporting me, so I'm going to give up.

423
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:35,720
You know?

424
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:36,720
Yeah.

425
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:37,720
That's it.

426
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:43,360
Oh, man, that is a really, really good point that you bring up with all of that, Kevin,

427
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:44,360
right?

428
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,760
The XRIT model is great.

429
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:53,160
Obviously, there's things that you have to consider moving into that, right?

430
00:30:53,160 --> 00:31:02,960
But one thing that you kind of talked about too is how can we do that without, especially

431
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,800
if we don't have access to the same type of resources that maybe South Metro fire might

432
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:08,800
have, right?

433
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,000
Like, what are some other approaches and looking at some of these things?

434
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,520
And yes, screening is a big one that we've looked at, right?

435
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,480
FMS has been around for a while.

436
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:24,560
You know, there's a couple, not necessarily new programs, but programs out there that

437
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,880
are also doing something similar.

438
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:34,280
Now we're starting to utilize some technology involvement with those screenings as well.

439
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:41,400
And realizing that we need to actually capture people moving to actually get a really good

440
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:49,920
screening on them versus kind of those static positions that we typically see in the FMS,

441
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:50,920
right?

442
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,640
So I know Fusionetics is out there doing some cool stuff with that.

443
00:31:54,640 --> 00:32:00,800
Ready Rebound has a program that they're doing that is utilizing some of those technologies.

444
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,720
And so those are some of the things that we are exploring.

445
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,280
But to touch a little bit more on what you're saying, when we went down to South Metro and

446
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:18,000
visited with those guys, I actually took down my local physician in this area.

447
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:24,760
So we have a doctor by the name of Rob Hilbers that has been passionate about first responders

448
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,600
for decades now.

449
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:34,960
And he originally started as an ER doc and basically had a couple people reach out to

450
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:40,520
him and say, hey, would you mind doing some of our health checks on some of our people?

451
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,200
And he went all in.

452
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:48,360
He went down to Phoenix in the early days and kind of got plugged in with all the WFI

453
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:56,320
stuff and brought it all back and has been doing some phenomenal things for us.

454
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,360
So I took him down there.

455
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:05,240
And what was cool is he has built a lot of the things that South Metro has, but it's

456
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,560
in a different way.

457
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:12,440
So he supports the entire valley from his clinic, Emergency Health Responders here in

458
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,240
Idaho.

459
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,400
And it's cool because all the departments know him.

460
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,360
All the departments love him.

461
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:26,360
And now that we took him down there to South Metro and have seen the growth that they've

462
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:33,160
had and the success that they've had, potentially now it looks like our departments being able

463
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,960
to dump into him to help create something similar.

464
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:44,880
But that's going to benefit all the departments in the valley, not just one specifically.

465
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:46,800
So that's something really cool.

466
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:52,760
And I think with that, and we just had a meeting not too long ago that we're probably about

467
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:58,560
two and a half years away from building out that facility of his, which sounds like a

468
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,840
long time, but obviously, as we know in the grand scheme of things, that's pretty awesome.

469
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:04,840
Right?

470
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,960
Two and a half years, that'll be here before you know it.

471
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:16,880
And I think we have the ability to help him set the gold standard in a new way.

472
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,840
Not taking anything away from South Metro, right?

473
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,640
But like, that's not feasible for every department.

474
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:28,200
But now maybe we actually are able to show another way of doing things that supports

475
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:29,200
multiple departments.

476
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:35,360
And so just super excited about that partnership with him and that he's on board with doing

477
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,080
something along those lines.

478
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:39,080
That's awesome.

479
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:45,120
Yeah, I can't wait to learn more about that and then watch how quickly that comes together.

480
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:50,240
Yeah, and our game is two and a half years, not very long at all, you know, especially

481
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:53,200
when you're on a year out budget cycle.

482
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,240
So that's not long at all for sure.

483
00:34:55,240 --> 00:34:56,440
So that's really, really cool.

484
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:01,880
And it's a great way to get the community members involved and people that have way

485
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:06,080
more education and knowledge around this.

486
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:11,080
And you know, you get a physician involved and oh man, get out of the way, right?

487
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:16,960
Give them the ditch banks and get out of the way and then just figure out how to support

488
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:23,400
that, whether that's budgets or culturally or whatever, how do we support this thing?

489
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:28,280
And I think the reality is, you know, I love the Chief Scott Thompson, you know, when he

490
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,880
went to the colony, Texas, and he talked about they had never measured what the community

491
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,960
expected of them, you know, and so he went to the grocery store and just said, Hey, what

492
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,240
do you expect of your fire department?

493
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:42,200
And he was kind of the story tells us funny, right?

494
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,800
He's like the big, he's a big dude.

495
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,600
And so he's there in plain clothes.

496
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,800
He's not in his chief uniform and he's just asking people what they expect of the fire

497
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:50,800
department.

498
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:51,800
Like, who is this weirdo?

499
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:56,200
But then he listened, you know, and it comes down to they expect us to solve their problem

500
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,400
and they expect us to be nice and they expect us to be competent.

501
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,000
And they expect us to show up when they call us, you know, and that's really what it comes

502
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,000
down to.

503
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,680
And that's a fun thing I like to, especially when we have probes, I like having probes on

504
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,320
my crew.

505
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,240
I like to do that in the grocery store when people come and thank you for your service,

506
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:14,400
which is completely unnecessary.

507
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,240
So you say, Hey, thank you, that's great.

508
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,480
We really, really appreciate that totally unnecessary.

509
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,520
What do you expect from us if you call us, you know, and they're like, what, what do

510
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:24,520
you mean?

511
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:25,520
Like seriously, what do you expect?

512
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,840
And I like to ask that from that World War two vet, you know, all the way down to that

513
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,200
seven year old kid that mom made him come and say, thank you to us.

514
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,560
You know, and the crazy thing is, is they all say the same thing.

515
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:44,000
And I think if we look at that in a wellness perspective, if we, if we are in emergency

516
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:48,120
services and we say, what does the community expect of us?

517
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,200
Well, first off, we got to ask them and then we got to listen to them.

518
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,280
And then we got to work hard to meet that.

519
00:36:54,280 --> 00:37:01,440
But also, hey, do you, do you think that it's okay that we have emergency responders that

520
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,560
are happy and healthy and they have great relationships at work?

521
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,480
They're super competent, basic skill wise, they can show up in a timely manner, they

522
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,280
solve your problem.

523
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:11,960
Some days are bad days, right?

524
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:16,040
But they try to solve your problem and they're, they're, they have the powers and the tools

525
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,200
and the abilities to solve most problems.

526
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,440
But is it also okay that when they go home that they're a good mom and they're a good

527
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,120
dad, they're a good partner, right?

528
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:32,160
That they get good sleep, that they're compensated enough where they can eat real food and live

529
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,000
in a place that they're safe.

530
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,960
And the community of it would be like, yeah, of course, why, of course.

531
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,920
So then we can also say, cool, that's how much this actually costs, right?

532
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:48,480
This is how much it costs to be, to have quality health insurance, to have programs where we

533
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,160
empower people to be in the career for a long time.

534
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:56,480
And when they leave, whatever timeline that is, that they don't get cancer in three years

535
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:57,480
and die.

536
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,360
Because that's nonsense, right?

537
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:04,800
Like it's time for us to draw a line in the sand at our levels and say, for lack of a

538
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:10,080
better term, this is complete horseshit and enough is enough, right?

539
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,320
And that is really kind of where we're at.

540
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,920
And that's why I continue to do all of this stuff is like, it is time for us to shake

541
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:18,320
the trees.

542
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,880
And just because we've done it for a long time in the American Fire Service or an emergency

543
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,720
services as a whole, it doesn't mean that we need to continue to do that.

544
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:31,600
And I think that that's where like this expert model coming in, you got to put your money

545
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:37,280
where your mouth is, but we're also delivering on that service that the customer, the external

546
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,040
customer expects.

547
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,520
And then we're also benefiting that internal customer in a massive way.

548
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:47,240
And so it's really, really cool to hear, hey, we can't do it the way that other fire departments

549
00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:48,240
are doing it.

550
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:52,840
And it doesn't matter that we hear, oh, well, they have more money than God, you know, you'll

551
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:53,840
hear that.

552
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,240
Well, that doesn't mean that we should just do nothing.

553
00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:59,040
You know, like how can we get creative at our own level?

554
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,000
And this dude is is a massive asset for you guys.

555
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,880
And there's a lot of those people out there.

556
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,960
It really, it really is.

557
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,480
And we are blessed.

558
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:15,760
But at the same time, that that was actually how forging wellness was even born, right?

559
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:23,000
Like, well, so it's not necessarily realistic to take some of these things back to your

560
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,960
department and expect that they're going to happen immediately, right?

561
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:32,360
So how do we give like practical actionable things to individuals that they can apply

562
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:33,840
on a regular basis, right?

563
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:40,960
So that's really what forging wellness was all about at its core mission, right?

564
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,840
Was to bring those actionable things.

565
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:52,800
And so our speaker lineup was was prime and just a list experts to do that.

566
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,840
And the hope, right?

567
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:56,400
Like we're not done with them.

568
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:57,400
We'll see him again.

569
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:58,760
We're going to bring them back around.

570
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,280
And I'm super excited about that.

571
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:02,600
I was it's funny.

572
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,680
I know this is obviously just supposed to be a podcast, but I I'm taking notes here

573
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,280
because I love some of the things that you're saying.

574
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:16,680
And, you know, I want to remember I love the the community involvement and asking the community,

575
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:17,680
right?

576
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:23,520
One thing that sparked in my mind was a conversation I had with one of my battalion chiefs.

577
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:29,280
And we don't always see eye to eye on things, but I really respect him as a battalion chief

578
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,440
as a person.

579
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:39,520
And he he was talking to me about some of these wellness ideas that I had and like me wanting

580
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,480
to shift priority towards some of the wellness things.

581
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:52,080
And his argument ended up being that, well, our number one priority is our response, right?

582
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,760
Always has been always will be that that's our mission, right?

583
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,200
Is to respond and absolutely, right?

584
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,400
Like we that's what we sign up for.

585
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:03,480
That's what we want to do.

586
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,120
We want to respond.

587
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,760
And we want to respond in the best possible way, right?

588
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:16,120
Whether that's in medicine, whether that's in fire, we want to be experts at our craft.

589
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:20,040
And that's really what I encourage out of all my my crews.

590
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:29,040
And so with that being said, the flip side to that argument would be how much better

591
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:34,960
can we accomplish that mission if we do shift that priority to wellness, right?

592
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,840
Because he said we've never had to brown out stations.

593
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:44,520
We've never not been able to staff what we needed to.

594
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:49,720
And in reality, that is absolutely 100% true.

595
00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:52,440
And that's due to forcing people back.

596
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,480
That's due to a number of other things.

597
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:01,800
Whereas if we just change that perspective slightly and say, well, what if we just take

598
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:07,000
care of our guys so that they aren't using as much sick time because they're actually

599
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,320
well, right?

600
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,080
And you know, they they are taking care of.

601
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:20,240
And so, you know, we, we do have a really good culture here, but the reality is when

602
00:42:20,240 --> 00:42:26,240
we've got somebody who might have that nagging injury or maybe just isn't feeling like themselves,

603
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:27,240
right?

604
00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:32,320
Because maybe the last year has been tough mentally, physically for whatever reason.

605
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,000
And then RIP training comes up.

606
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:42,960
And all of a sudden that person is non-existent for the week of RIP training, right?

607
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:48,520
But if we're supporting them with all this wellness stuff, potentially that's not the

608
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:49,520
case.

609
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:58,760
They're going to be a lot more confident in their abilities and able to show up for all

610
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:03,880
those type of trainings and for the community as a whole, right?

611
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:08,320
Yeah, massive fireball right there.

612
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,160
Really, really well stated and said.

613
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:16,280
I like to get on my soapbox a little bit, but you did such a better job of not emotionally

614
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,520
just saying, hey, this is kind of the reality of it.

615
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,440
But I think you're you're spot on.

616
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:25,000
And that's the thing with proactive approach towards wellness, a holistic approach, like

617
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:32,960
you've said, is you can help in a lot of other areas, you know, and it like you've also said,

618
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:34,600
it's not all doom and gloom, right?

619
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,160
Like we don't all get cancer.

620
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:41,360
We certainly don't all have to get cancer and we don't all get PTSD or PTSD.

621
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,680
You're going to have really bad days and emergency services.

622
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:51,080
That's just unfortunately the experience of what we've said to do doesn't necessarily

623
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,120
lessen the pain of those things.

624
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:59,240
But if you have proactive approaches and I like to call that resilience, how can we

625
00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:04,400
train you and ourselves to have resilience before we need it?

626
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,640
So that way, when the bad day shows up.

627
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,800
And that bad day could be organizationally, right?

628
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:15,200
Like I'm excited we're going to talk to Chief Dean Ali and talk about the impact of organizational

629
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,160
culture on mental health.

630
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,440
It's not all the 911 response stuff that we're dealing with.

631
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:28,480
And so proactively, how does somebody who has a good solid fitness routine that's relevant

632
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:33,680
to them and where they're at and what their goals are, they even have goals, right?

633
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:40,400
The mental health stuff, whether it's a clinician or what are the systems and processes, spirituality,

634
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,400
like all of the different things that can go into mental health.

635
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:44,760
How does nutrition play into that?

636
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,560
How does sleep play into that?

637
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:47,560
Right?

638
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,560
Like how does hydration play into that?

639
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,160
How does the internal mindset play into that?

640
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,120
The inner voice, like all of that stuff.

641
00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:00,680
Mental performance coaching, which is not a clinician.

642
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:06,080
So like all of that is pre-zilliance, which then leads down to things like the blue flu,

643
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,760
where we got a really hard training coming up and I'm going to call on sick because I'm

644
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,640
absolutely terrified to fail, right?

645
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,720
So then we go back to the culture of failure.

646
00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:15,360
Like we could go on and on and on about this.

647
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,960
So I think you're spot on.

648
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:19,800
You're spot on.

649
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:24,800
So talk a little bit about forging wellness for people that haven't heard of that.

650
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:30,120
And unfortunately, talk about what the unfortunate news was that you released this week as well

651
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:36,120
in relation to the conference, but from the fire comes growth as well.

652
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:41,120
So what is the forging wellness conference and what does that look like moving forward?

653
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:42,960
Yeah.

654
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:53,640
So as I stated a little bit, so myself and Captain Rosenbaum also with Boys Fire, good

655
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:59,600
friend of mine just had a shared vision for wanting to bring a lot more of this to the

656
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:07,280
just the front line and get it in front of people, right?

657
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:13,640
And we actually ran one last year with the help of the Center of Excellence and Molly

658
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,520
Jones and she was phenomenal.

659
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:24,960
She did some really awesome things for us and we loved it and people loved it.

660
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:26,440
But we wanted more, right?

661
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:33,040
Like we wanted to make it bigger and so this year we set out to do that.

662
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:40,640
And we might have gone too big to be honest, too big, too quick.

663
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:48,800
And so the unfortunate reality is that with a number of obstacles that we face that some

664
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:54,600
of our speaker fees and whatnot and costs just outweighed the donations that we were

665
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,840
able to bring in.

666
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:04,760
I mean we were still going after some and still had some coming in but as we were just

667
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:11,880
looking at the deadline we had to be realistic with where we were at.

668
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:19,320
And so we made the choice to cancel the conference, the in-person conference this year which,

669
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,560
man, yeah.

670
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:27,120
It was hard to swallow that because we are so passionate about it, right?

671
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:36,600
And we just were so excited about the opportunity to host it here in Boise to just because it's

672
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:41,440
a really good location and we have a tight-knit fire community and first responder community

673
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:43,760
in this area.

674
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:49,400
But we also are kind of a unique location for the Northwest as well.

675
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:55,600
And so we were really hoping to bring something special to the Northwest.

676
00:47:55,600 --> 00:48:06,840
Now with all that being said, we have already pivoted on this mission with the lessons learned

677
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,200
from this.

678
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:19,280
And we are still partnering with Fire Nuggets to look at offering some virtual sessions

679
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:24,200
coming up in December and January.

680
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:28,680
And with that, hopefully we're just, we're going to get these out there.

681
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:34,640
We're going to get some exposure for some of these experts in our field that really understand

682
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,680
what we deal with and how to speak to us in that way, right?

683
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:45,200
And provide those practical tools for individuals.

684
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:50,520
So now, hopefully with those virtual sessions, we get those speakers out there.

685
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:59,000
We get them some more exposure and how impactful they can be.

686
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:05,640
So that way, when we do come back with the live event, which we plan on looking at next

687
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:13,960
year, that we just have already set the groundwork and the foundation for that.

688
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:15,800
So we're not done by any means.

689
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:17,640
We're not dead in the water.

690
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:22,280
We're super excited moving forward, unfortunately, bummed out that this didn't work out.

691
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:27,560
But yeah, man, obviously that's life, right?

692
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:34,640
We don't always get things right on the first go as much as we would like to.

693
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,480
But what do we do from here?

694
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:41,320
And I think it's going to kind of pull this into something really cool.

695
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:46,480
Is it this might once we get the virtual session set up, I think, honestly, this will allow

696
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:51,680
us even associated with the live event when it comes back to offer a streaming option

697
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:52,680
for it.

698
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,920
Yeah, really cool.

699
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:56,840
And just a great thing to adapt, right?

700
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:02,120
Like it's painful when you spend so much time and energy and you have, it's a great idea.

701
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:03,120
It really is.

702
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,680
I think probably you guys are a little bit on the leading edge.

703
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:10,120
And so you have, you're still dealing with the early adopters a little bit.

704
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:14,560
But then you also have budget constraints and people going back to school and, okay,

705
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:18,320
we'll go into Boise might be really, really hard for me to get there, blah, blah, blah,

706
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:23,400
blah, you know, and so it's just a great way to pivot and kind of be on the lookout.

707
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:27,640
How can people find more out about the Forging Wellness conferences or web page?

708
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,320
I know you got an Instagram account as well.

709
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:35,960
Yeah, that's so right now, social media is probably the best way that we're going to

710
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,960
update people.

711
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:45,800
Just letting them know what that first virtual session will be, when it will be.

712
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:51,600
We'll get that out there, but we had already started to work on our own dedicated website.

713
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:57,240
So that will be coming up and then we'll just push people towards that website that will

714
00:50:57,240 --> 00:51:06,560
have constant ongoing update of the next virtual session that is upcoming and then what to

715
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,240
expect with the live event as well.

716
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:11,240
Awesome.

717
00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:15,360
Yeah, and Fire Nuggets is a great one as well because not only the Forging Wellness conference,

718
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:20,480
they have all the conferences and one-off classes that they're involved in.

719
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:26,240
So jump on firenuggets.com and jump, you know, get on their email list and then open it when

720
00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:27,960
they send it to you.

721
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:32,040
But you know, Fire Nuggets has a pretty cool online library and we were very fortunate

722
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:38,040
back in the COVID days to teach an online class there and so you have this massive online

723
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:43,000
library because of COVID where all the regional conferences were getting canceled, Fire Nuggets

724
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:48,240
really stepped up and they have a pretty cool online library there and whether that's basic

725
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:54,200
skills stuff, you know, you got great stuff in there from West Coast Fire with Jay Bonifield

726
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,760
teaching a class and I mean, they've got engine company, truck company, technical rescue,

727
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:05,560
they got everything in there and then this hippie-dippy baloney stuff of wellness, right?

728
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:07,680
So jump in there and check that out.

729
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:12,160
But yeah, you know, I think probably some of it too is you're a victim of the algorithm

730
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:13,440
as well.

731
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:17,640
You know, it's hard to bootstrap a lot of these things and I've been involved in some

732
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:22,080
conferences including the mile high fire con where we just try to grind it out with no

733
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:23,920
money and figure out how to make it work.

734
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:30,000
And so for all of those of you that are listening to this podcast, you're obviously into this

735
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:31,000
sort of stuff.

736
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:35,200
So let's support Forging Wellness and be on the lookout for that.

737
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,240
And it sounds like they're going to release it where depending on what part of the country

738
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:45,040
you're in, it might be super crappy outside and it's a good time to sit back to a virtual

739
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:46,200
class as well.

740
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,720
So stoke that it's not gone forever.

741
00:52:49,720 --> 00:52:51,680
Yeah, thank you.

742
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:56,640
Very excited to see where that thing morphs and I'm excited to learn, right?

743
00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:03,000
So and from the speaker lineup that they had for the in-person one, you had people that

744
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:07,900
were not in emergency services all the way up through how do you build a wellness program?

745
00:53:07,900 --> 00:53:12,360
So you're going to be able to get lots of different stuff, sleep specialists, all that

746
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:13,800
sort of thing.

747
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,920
So it's going to have content in it that you're going to be into even if you're not, if you

748
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:23,040
don't have the time and energy to build an entire wellness program from zero.

749
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,840
Yeah, it's going to be so cool.

750
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:35,280
The partnerships and just relationships we built already has been phenomenal, right?

751
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:40,400
And you're right, like moving forward, the stuff that we are going to be putting out

752
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:44,560
there from people that like all over the country, right?

753
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:50,080
And the ones I'm super excited about to really help her get her message out there is JD

754
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,000
Miller from Canada.

755
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:58,600
She partnered with Dr. Chris Fru, who's already doing a lot of work with operator syndrome

756
00:53:58,600 --> 00:53:59,600
in the military.

757
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:06,080
And she kind of helped coin the term firefighter syndrome, which potentially opens the door

758
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:11,520
for so many things and just the ability to look at, it doesn't put us into a box of say

759
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,720
PTSD, right?

760
00:54:13,720 --> 00:54:20,920
Now it's this umbrella thing that allows for a number of different things underneath it.

761
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,560
So just super cool things associated.

762
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:30,320
Yeah, I mean, so much good information here and just really cool to talk to somebody who's

763
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:36,920
out there in the trench doing it, figuring out how it works for them personally, right?

764
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,240
All of this stuff, we're all super selfish.

765
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:40,720
That's where this podcast is amazing.

766
00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:44,480
As I get to meet and talk to people like you and learn so much, I have a whole page of

767
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:53,960
notes here, gets me excited to see traction or ways that maybe I can help as well.

768
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,160
Really, really cool stuff.

769
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:01,000
Very, very exciting to just continue to create and maintain this community of people that

770
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:02,840
are into this sort of stuff.

771
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:08,840
Yeah, I mean, it just goes back to what I was saying with that knowledge sharing, right?

772
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:15,200
The best leaders, the best mentors I've ever had are obviously not afraid of sharing that

773
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:16,200
knowledge.

774
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:17,400
They want to pass it on.

775
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:25,280
You want to make the person who's under you or working for you better than you are, right?

776
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:32,640
So that they can just carry the torch and keep going with these things because it's not about

777
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:37,960
having our legacy set in stone because we know that doesn't exist in the fire service

778
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:40,160
ultimately, right?

779
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:43,080
The fire service first responder, they don't stop moving.

780
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:44,080
It just keeps going.

781
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:53,080
And so the legacy that we set is with the people that we train and pass the torch to.

782
00:55:53,080 --> 00:56:01,360
What you were saying about fire nuggets for having all of those cool things about things

783
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:07,880
from the basics of stretching the line, tech rescue, everything all in one place.

784
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:13,080
And then our hippie, dippy shit, right?

785
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:20,680
What's super cool about that in my mind is once again, thinking about from a holistic

786
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,180
approach.

787
00:56:22,180 --> 00:56:30,840
But as I really dove into a lot of the fitness stuff when I first got involved, if I'm able

788
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:38,920
to make them fit for their job, for whatever they're doing, right?

789
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:45,240
The impact that has on somebody's competence is incredible.

790
00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:49,080
And there is a number of studies to actually not a number.

791
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:54,640
There is probably only about two studies that actually have a direct correlation specifically

792
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:58,400
looking at that, but they are there.

793
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:06,440
And when we help somebody in this holistic wellness approach, the confidence that they

794
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:12,640
end up having in their ability to do the job leads to better competence with all of these

795
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:14,200
skills that are available.

796
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:20,560
So I think just having them all in the same library is going to really help that person

797
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:23,160
or an individual excel in that way.

798
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:30,120
Like not only am I improving myself as an individual, as a family person, whether it

799
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:40,560
be a husband, father, wife, mother, whatever, I'm also able to then transition and work

800
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:45,960
on my craft at the same time and crush it.

801
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,440
So I love that.

802
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:49,440
Yeah.

803
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:50,440
And you talked about...

804
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:51,440
Oh, thank you.

805
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:52,440
Sorry, I'm sorry.

806
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:53,440
Absolutely.

807
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:54,800
And you talked about legacy and there you go.

808
00:57:54,800 --> 00:58:01,240
If you help or you take power over your own journey, wellness, fitness, all of those sorts

809
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,200
of things, you do leave a legacy.

810
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:06,720
It's just not necessarily an emergency services.

811
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:13,360
You leave a legacy for your family's name and the people that get to influence your neighbors.

812
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,880
It's so much bigger than like, oh, well, what am I going to be known for that's written

813
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:17,880
down?

814
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:24,000
If you're able to help somebody get over the hump of fitness and create confidence and

815
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:29,880
competence, it's exponential where those things go.

816
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:35,480
And so for all of those of you out there really grinding and pushing the envelope, especially

817
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:40,960
in the world of wellness, whatever that word means to you, like keep it up because it does

818
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:42,720
matter.

819
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:47,760
And what you do matters and we value you and your contribution to all this stuff.

820
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:53,800
And excited to continue to build the community around that.

821
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:55,400
Really good stuff.

822
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:57,800
How can people find you if you want them to?

823
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:02,000
How can they reach out to you, get more information or have conversation about what you've all

824
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:05,480
been able to accomplish up to this point or help you?

825
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:06,480
Absolutely.

826
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:15,120
I would love to talk with anybody because as I've gone down this rabbit hole of things

827
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:21,040
like the partnerships and connections that I've made along the way are phenomenal.

828
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,680
And so I might not be the expert.

829
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:27,680
I might not be the person to talk to you, but I have a good idea who I can send you

830
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:29,280
to.

831
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:33,200
And I just open the door for that.

832
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:42,560
And so yeah, I mean, if you want to call or text me, my number, 2089672001.

833
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:49,440
If you want to email me, you can use the Forging Wellness email, which is forgingwellness208

834
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:54,440
at gmail.com or my personal email.

835
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:59,480
If you just want to have personal conversation about something that I've talked about, small

836
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,080
town medic at gmail.com.

837
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:03,400
Awesome.

838
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:04,400
Fantastic.

839
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:07,840
We'll let the, let the games begin, right?

840
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:08,840
Sure.

841
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:14,680
So thank you for willing, for being willing to share that, you know, their contact information

842
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,400
and then being willing to help.

843
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:21,600
And so excited to see kind of where that goes from our for you, you know, with the community

844
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:22,600
that we have here.

845
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:27,680
And we appreciate all of you tuning in today, the Firefighter Crasmship podcast with a cool

846
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:28,840
episode.

847
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:34,880
I'm stoked to continue to push the envelope for myself personally and then also for the

848
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:36,280
things that I'm involved in.

849
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,200
So please rate review, subscribe to the show.

850
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:44,720
It helps us grow this thing organically with literally no dollars supporting it at all.

851
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,960
And as always, stay smart.

852
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:52,960
The Firefighter Crasmship podcast is brought to you by XTI, intelligent, by light therapy

853
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:58,320
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854
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:03,040
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855
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856
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and how I've been able to perform and show up even when we've gotten off shift and haven't

857
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had much rest at all.

858
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:22,200
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859
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:27,200
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860
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:28,200
Now back to the show.

861
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:35,200
Thank you.