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As an instructor in a training environment, have you ever been frustrated

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when everyone copied the same actions even if the first repetition resulted in

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a failure? Or maybe they even caught copied the actions that wasn't a failure

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but it just wasn't the most efficient way to do it or not the way that they

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were instructed to try. How about as a leader have you ever been frustrated that

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a change has taken much longer to implement than it should and it seems

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that the group is just being resistant or just not getting it? Welcome to the

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firefighter craftsmanship podcast where we coach you to deal with the stressors

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of the job as a first responder as well as how to thrive off-duty. My name is

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Kevin Housley, a human performance coach and a firefighter since 2005. I've been

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able to coach over a thousand emergency responders on ways to be more resilient,

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better prepared for the job and how to be happier and healthier at home. So let's

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get to it. Today's topic is the group effect and behavioral matching and

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creating quality training and quality cultural evolution is really really

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hard. We all know that. As an instructor and even as a participant you

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probably have been involved in a training where the first group of people

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who went undoubtedly made some mistakes. So this isn't necessarily like crazy

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egregious mistakes but maybe they made a couple simple mistakes that was covered

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in the initial briefing or the entire reason that the training was happening

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in the first place and then they just reverted to old habits. Maybe they made

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a mistake and it was discussed as why this wasn't the best option and that we

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should all learn and grow from it and then on the very next evolution the next

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group did the exact same thing. Well how come? With all my involvement you know as

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an instructor and specifically in the fire academy setting we see recruits who

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watch the rep before them because we don't have enough time to get everybody

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tons of reps and not everything needs to be a big secret where they can't know

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quote-unquote the answers to the test before they go. So I really like to

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incorporate imagery and visual reps when I teach especially things like

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ventilation, ladders, hose work, things like that where it's really really

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important that they can get some extra visual reps because they there's just

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not enough time or resources to maybe get people enough saw time per se on a

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ventilation module. So pretty consistently we see recruits make the exact same

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mistake that the rep before them did even after we do an initial debrief and

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sometimes I really enjoy having the recruits actually debrief one another

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so they kind of take that lead and so it just creates that pedagogy where it's

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peer assessment and peer review and it makes those recruits learn a little bit

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more because they have to really kind of pay attention to more things that they

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might not if they're not actively having them to instruct and give feedback.

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So this is something I've kind of always wondered like why did you make the exact

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same mistake or the exact same inefficient process maybe to get

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equipment from here to there as the group that just went before you where we

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even talked about it of hey there's probably a better way to do that and

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I've always wondered you know is it the stakes of failure and they're just

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really not that scary because they saw like hey this is a teaching environment

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learning environment you know and so that company there yeah they didn't maybe

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meet the marks of the instructor but at the end of the day maybe the quote-unquote

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punishment wasn't so bad and so we'll just do that because we kind of know

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what to expect and maybe those stakes are just less terrifying in a Academy's

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setting and really any learning environment there it's just go with

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what's comfortable versus trying something new and potentially really failing

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or having the wheels really really come off. But isn't that the point of

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training after all is to create environments where we actually learn

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something and we've talked about that previously here on the Firefighter

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Crasmanship podcast is how do we create cultures and environments especially in

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the learning stages like academies where they're actually learning something

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versus trying to just avoid punishment. So I've seen this time and time again and

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now I just saw it recently with with some training that I was involved with

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with career emergency personnel responders where they were making the

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exact same decision even though it wasn't necessarily the right decision for

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the training at hand or there might have been a better way to do it but they

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were just doing it because the very first company that went did it that way

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and then they just created the exact same environment and of course I was like

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well there's got to be some research around this and yep there's a whole

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bunch and so today we're going to talk about group effect and behavioral

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matching and this simple concept might help you become a more effective

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instructor and a more effective leader overall. So what is group effect? Well

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simply put people are influenced and try to replicate those that they identify

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with and they are influenced to match the actions and behaviors of those in

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their group much more so than those not in the group and sports is a great

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example of this. We see fans that attack each other because they're wearing a

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different colored jersey even though they're not even playing on the field

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but just because you identify and you wear a different team's jersey well then

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you are the enemy even though at the end of the day we're all just cheering for a

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baseball team or a football team or whatever. You see this with kids you

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know where they're you know arch enemies with the other team even in a youth

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sports context and then maybe in a couple months they play a travel team or a

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sports team or something like that where they might even have some of those

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kids on that other team. So this is just a sociological and a psychological thing

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that happens of hey this is our in-group and that's the out-group that's the

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competition we're gonna go after them and get them and some of that has to do

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with competitiveness but a lot of it also just has to do with sociological

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behavior and this certainly happens within emergency services we see that

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within specific companies where we identify maybe with the the company

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that we're assigned to or the partner that we have compared to another crew or

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something that maybe we don't identify with or we don't think that they do as

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great of a job as they should. We also see this within battalions and shifts and

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organizations and there's a lot to be said by having pride and ownership in

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your job and with with what you do and saying hey yeah we're gonna go out there

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and we're gonna work really really hard and and sometimes we say yeah we're

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better than you and hopefully that's still in good-hearted fun and we really

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really want to push our organizational cultures to be like yeah I take pride in

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in the place that I'm assigned so in the fire service the apparatus that I'm

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assigned and the shift that I'm assigned and the people that I'm assigned with we

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take great pride in how we want to be perceived and how we want to behave and

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those things are very very important to us and then we try to lead up through our

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battalion and through our shift and then ultimately through our organization but

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at the same time I know that not everybody on my specific job agrees or

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approaches the job the same way as I do and ultimately that's up to them to

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decide how they approach that thing but if they come work with us on our

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specific company these are the things that we expect and we communicate those

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very very well and those expectations are actually made by the company itself

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not just me as the officer we also see the impact a group effect on resources

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just like this the firefighter craftsmanship podcast maybe you are

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coming here and you're trying to gain some knowledge and some inspiration and

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motivation based on the things that we're talking about that would be a group

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of us here with the firefighter craftsmanship podcast that are kind of

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into the psychological and the training the mental side of emergency response

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and so we have a tribe of people that are kind of on the same page as us and we

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can ebb and flow and learn together and push one another to be better you see

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this within Facebook groups for sure you know if you have a great Facebook group

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out there as truck floor training they have a lot of really really good

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resources another one is engine company resurrection lots of really really good

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stuff that's you know dedicated to engine company culture and and lots of

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studies and things like that and you'll see pretty quickly that there are a lot

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of like-minded individuals there but I can go and I can learn from really really

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influential people across the country just through the Facebook group and

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interacting with them there and I will never ever ever run a single 911 call

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with them so that's why these things are so effective is creating those tribes of

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people where we can learn from and grow from that obviously can be a very

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negative thing as well and we see that with the political divide that continues

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to happen where especially now with the integration of AI where it's feeding us

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content based on what it thinks we want to see and those things can kind of

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spiral out of control pretty quickly so I think all of us are pretty familiar with

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what group effect is and how it can be used for good and for bad so what's the

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impact of group effect on behavioral matching and we'll get into what behavioral

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matching means but first you know this week's podcast is based on the article

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titled not all outgroups are equal group type may influence group effect on

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matching behavior authors Heidi blocker and Daniel Macintosh and those this

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resource will be linked in the show notes as well for you to access so

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behavior matching is typically measured in a matter of seconds or even minutes

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but we certainly can see this over much longer periods of time especially around

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the training environment and a really really easy example that we've probably

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all been involved in here is you know major training that might be a little

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bit stressful or the perceived stakes are pretty high and we want to make sure

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that we go out there and we perform really really well so in the firehouse

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we might have a major training coming up or burns or something like that

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department-wide training and you'll hear the chatter across shifts that shift

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change like hey what was that training all about hey what did you guys do

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strategy and tactics wise like what were some of the gotchas you'll hear some

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people really kind of trying to do their homework and all in all that's a positive

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thing right they're kind of trying to take some of the stress out of that

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training evolution they are trying to get some of the answers to the test but

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at the end of the day right they're having those conversations and mentality

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however if that company that went first didn't really necessarily perform

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optimally well then we might just behavior match meaning I might perform

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the exact same actions that they did or in another connotation if I don't really

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have a lot of respect for that company and I hear what they did I might

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intentionally not do it that way so you see some of the same methods and

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implementations from subsequent crews when you are an instructor of this even

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on items that they shouldn't have known we're gonna come so maybe there was a

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variable in there that they didn't know wasn't in the training plan like hey

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here's a little bit of a not a gotcha but just something that they're gonna

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maybe have to work through and they come in there and they were very obviously

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very well prepared for that they actually knew exactly where that thing was

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gonna happen and and they were really really aware of that and prepared for

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it and so that would be an example of behavior matching of hey I learned from

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them and now I'm gonna go ahead and implement using the exact same strategy

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and tactics and there's three main factors that influence behavior matching

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and learning and understanding these basic factors can significantly increase

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your effectiveness as a leader and for sure as an instructor and the three

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main factors that influence behavior matching are affiliation attention and

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emotion and all three of these interconnected and as usually the case

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with factors like this they all influence one another throughout the

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process and as a leader and as an instructor you can capitalize on this

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and make your delivery even more effective when you realize the

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interoperability of these factors and can identify the area where maybe you

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and your delivery are lacking so maybe you're lacking in the emotional category

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and so now I can really start to use that as a positive of instruction and

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leadership overall so let's break into these things affiliation attention and

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emotion and figure out what they are and how we can use them to be more

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effective so as Seth Godin says people like us do things like this and I've

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linked a great download from Seth that has a unique look at this specific quote

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in the show notes it's absolutely worth the time to check out and if you're not

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familiar with Seth Godin he is basically a marketing guru he essentially

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created email marketing and really really interesting thought-provoking

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leader in the business world but also just in how we build cohesive teams and

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effective cultures really really good stuff so check out that link in the show

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notes or jump on our firefighter craftsmanship email list and you will

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never missed a really really cool resource like this because that's included

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in a weekly email this week you can go to firefightercraftsmanship.com

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backslash podcast and get signed up for that weekly email right there so this

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concept really applies when we look at the group effect affiliation that is and

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behavior matching specifically and again this can be positive and negative and

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matching increases drive to affiliate so when we look at this in a training and

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delivering quality training scenario we need to understand that there are

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positive and negative forces at play the biggest one right off the bat is if you

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are the instructor what happens if the students or the athletes or whoever you're

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working with the client doesn't actually like you well that's gonna have a very

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very big thing on affiliation if they don't like you and they maybe don't

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think that you're competent or they don't like your delivery and they don't

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want anything to do with you well then it's gonna be really really hard to

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implement some of that positive change even if the things that you're trying to

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teach them or the culture that's trying to change is in a positive manner if you

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don't have a positive relationship with the student they're probably not gonna

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want to be affiliated with you and therefore their behavior isn't gonna

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match what you're trying to teach them to do they're actually gonna be

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resistant of that so it's very important you know if we are in charge of training

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divisions or we're working on training things like that is to not only select

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the appropriate people to deliver the training but then to also ensure that

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groups of people are specifically chosen to work together so how many of us when

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we're designing training specifically put numbers of companies so whether

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that's officers you know like hey I'm gonna work on this shift and I'm gonna

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make sure that Jones Smith and whoever are all together because they might even

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have varying differing opinions or we have Jones and Smith that are super

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dialed and I know that they're gonna perform really really well and we're

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trying to get this other person John Doe here up to speed and so we're gonna

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use Jones and Smith and we're not even really gonna necessarily coach them on

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the thing we just know that they're gonna perform in a way that I want Doe to

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perform at and so now just by being affiliated with those two high

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performers it's gonna bring that lower link up to a higher standard so pre

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existing rapport is very influential and the students will actually experience

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greater synchrony if they like you and that's what we really want is you know

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with these high performing organizations is we want to have synchronous

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teams that are going out there and they're actually employing these

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strategies and tactics and basic skills that we're teaching them at a very very

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high level together without a lot of verbal communication and so that's why

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if you have great pre-existing rapport especially if you're on a training staff

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and you work really really hard to be well received to listen to the troops to

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make sure that they have a voice to give them what they continue to ask for in

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the training environment that pre-existing rapport is gonna go a long

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way when you're trying to teach them a new skill or challenge them to be better

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based on lessons learned on actual emergency responses it's really really

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important so this isn't necessarily a popularity contest but it is very very

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important to continue to hone and develop and work on relationships and if

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you're a leader of an organization doesn't even have to be an emergency

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services and you come in there and you rule with an iron fist and you never

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listen to your people it's going to be really really hard at the end of the day

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for you to establish the things that you want to get done and to have a cohesive

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team below you that's actually going to put out and do really really good

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quality work for you on your behalf so pre-existing rapport and building

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relationships that never gets old never goes away so the second factor that

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that goes into behavioral matching is attention and really are they paying

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attention are you creating environments in the training world where they're

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paying attention to you that they're paying attention to one another are you

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killing them by death by PowerPoint every single time are you only using

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target solutions virtual training to disseminate information are they even

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listening that thing or they push and play and walk in out of the room really

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important that they're paying attention to you to the subject and to one another

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and how about on lessons learned are we doing after-action reviews and are we

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actually giving good good good review and detached assessment of how those

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important calls went and are we learning from those things that maybe we messed up

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in the real-world environment and so how are we creating environments that

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engage the group and what sort of pedagogies are we using to engage the

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group to make sure that learning is taking place we're using multiple

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different types of learning or are we just blasting them with information and

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because I'm the one that's teaching it to you well then you should just have it

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and you should just know it it's not a great strategy by any means so there's

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a thing called the perception action link which means mere perception of an

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action by another increases the likelihood that another were performed

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the same action now this is really what I witnessed recently in this training

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that I was involved in is we had people that were continuing to choose the exact

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same tactic even though wasn't necessarily the best tactic and was

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spoken about in a micro teach before the training even started because the very

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first crew that went performed that action and so it was just easier for

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them to just copy that exact same thing that I didn't have to think about that

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that answer was already created for them and now they just followed suit even

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though it wasn't necessarily the best tactic for the situation so it really

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ties back to why we see groups continue to make the same mistake and if there's

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a problem maybe specifically instruct the next group that goes to perform an

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action that fixes the problem or disallows that specific technique to be

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used and so in all of our businesses there's lots of ways to skin the cat and

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we can do lots of different things where we say hey here is like this big

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scenario go ahead and do that and maybe there is some specific thing that we

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want to try to coach people out of or coach people into and so after that

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first rep if that company doesn't do it and you really want to see that part

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integrated into the training maybe give that next up person or that next up

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group hey I really want you to do this let's go ahead and create a growth

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mindset environment live failure is okay let's define failure and let's go ahead

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and try that and see how it works and as an instructor you're gonna learn a lot

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too when you get to see people trying to perform these actions on hey was my

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instruction appropriate or do we need to spend even more time on development of

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a class like this and so you know this is something that I try really really

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hard to integrate into academy teaching and specifically I can a ventilation

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module where we work really really hard on the ground game for ladders during a

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ladders module and then it all incorporates into a ventilation module

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especially if we're doing vertical ventilation and so I like to start

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everything from zero so essentially at the rig and so hey you got to get all

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this equipment from here to there to the training prop and this is what the

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evolution is gonna be and sometimes we have firefighters that are new and

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they're learning they're gonna go ahead and they're gonna try one technique

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let's say it might be stacking ladders per se we have two person ventilation

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operation they stack an access letter a roof ladder chainsaws sounding tool and

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they carry it all over there and then have to unstack it okay well so when I

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see that on the very very first evolution I don't personally think that's the

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most efficient way for us to get the ladder compliment that we carry to the

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building or to the training building and so can we share the load instead and so

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if the very first group goes and they stack the ladder I know right away that

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that next group is probably gonna do the exact same thing even though it is not

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the most efficient way to do it and so in a scenario like that where I don't

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want them to use it I'm okay that they tried it out but then I want them to

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see other ways to do it I'm gonna have them not you're not allowed to stack

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ladders but you still have to get all of this from here to there you have 30

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seconds to figure out how that's gonna go talk amongst yourselves all right go

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and I've also used advice versa where they had a really really high

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performing rep their very very first chance based on maybe basic skill sets

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that somebody comes into the academy with and then I will forbid that specific

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technique because I want them to see how different techniques work and don't

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work along the way it's really really important for a learning environment to

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kind of assess all of our options and that really helps to create cultures

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where people are willing to say hey why do we do it that way and then if they

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say I don't know that's just the way we've always done it which is not an

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answer that allows them to go out and try and challenge and figure out better

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ways to do those sorts of things whether it's basic skills or specific tools and

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equipment the final factor in behavioral matching is emotion and this is

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certainly something that we're all very familiar with emergency services there's

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a lot of emotion around things and I guess just as a cultural tenant of all

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of us now there's a lot of emotionally charged discussions happening all over

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the world and emotion really plays highly into how we match or emulate

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different types of behavior so think about emergency services if you have a

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screamer on the radio somebody that shows up and they're on scene and they

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just start screaming regardless of how intense or dramatic the incident actually

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is does that help or hurt the rest of the responders that are coming into the

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scene versus a common cool and collected person does that help or hurt

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responders coming into the scene now even if you're common cool and collected

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but you have no idea what you're talking about and you're not very well

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respected well again that's gonna have an impact on behavioral matching because

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I don't necessarily want to be affiliated with you even though you're

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common cool and collected you have no idea what to do strategy and tactic wise

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or how to solve the problem well that's gonna be a hard thing for me to

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behave your match because I don't want to be affiliated with you but we can

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really really see the impact of emotion when somebody gets super amped on the

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radio of the impact for those companies coming in so chatter in the cab or in

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the station around the event or the training has a big impact as well so if

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your leaders in your organizations what sort of cultures are you creating at the

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crew level and are you saying you know maybe you have a newer person on your

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your rig or your company or in your car and you're like all this training is

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gonna be nonsense and blah blah blah blah blah are you helping or hurting that

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person's career and their approach to emergency services overall and so the

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interesting thing about you know some of this emotion is you know not all of us

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are gonna have the same emotion so if I'm really really frustrated by something

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and I think that this is just complete nonsense and there's no reason for us

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to be going to this training well you might actually be feeling another

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emotion like I might be super excited I think this is really really fun I don't

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agree with you at all or maybe you're a little bit nervous so if we think about

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like emergency response if you have a new person on your your crew it could be

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an older person with a bunch of hypervigilant stuff as well you know and

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you're angry but they're kind of fearful about what we're going to well those

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two things don't really correlate very well they're not going to change from

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being fearful into being angry it's actually going to exacerbate their

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fearful fearful feelings through my anger and so it creates even more

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fearful emotion because I'm angry so if you are the one that's anger maybe you're

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also feel fearful but you are just putting it out as anger and so we

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definitely have people in emergency services that their strategy is I'm

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gonna just anger this fire out or I'm gonna anger this issue out and because

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I'm mad and you know that everybody's gonna respect that and so that's just

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gonna go the way that I want it to go and we all know that that's not actually

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true and so be very very cognizant about you know if you're an instructor

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specifically or you're a leader in an organization that you're trying to get

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some good cultural buy-in like you might be really really frustrated and you

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might be angry but anger specifically when you're putting that out there well

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people are either gonna match that anger and they're gonna also be angry now

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we're just all angry together and we're not actually doing anything about it or

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it's gonna exacerbate other emotions like fear and probably make the problem

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worse overall so that's kind of an interesting factor in behavioral

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matching is emotion so if I come in there and I got a good positive attitude

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I'm happy hey let's create a fun environment here let's go learn some

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lessons we might take some licks along the way but we're gonna learn from them

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we're gonna get better we're gonna be excited about that we're gonna be

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transparent right right there I have a good positive attitude I'm bringing some

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fun and some joy into this thing even for really really hard stuff versus like

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oh this is complete nonsense and right away we're starting to have a losing

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battle so just a real quick recap of behavioral matching the three factors of

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behavioral matching are affiliation attention and emotion and just to realize

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that these things are very very interconnected and they play off of one

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of another and so if you have a specific reputation that people may want to be

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affiliated with that's a very very positive thing if you have a reputation

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where people don't want to be affiliated with that the fact of the matter is it's

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gonna be a lot harder for you to go out there and create cultural change or have

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positive impact on things like basic skills or you want people to match the

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behavior and match those skill sets that you're trying to teach them very

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important when we go all the way back to Academy settings are you ruling again

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with an iron fist you're gonna do it this way and I'm gonna scream and yell and

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make you do burpees when you mess up because you didn't do it the right way

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or the exact way that I wanted you to do it well you're gonna have a harder time

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to actually create learning environments and actually churn out new employees new

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emergency responders new cops new firefighters new EMS providers that are

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out there doing good for the public if you have that sort of mentality so we

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need to really really stop and assess what kind of culture do we have at the

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very lowest level of this organization and then how are we carrying that thing

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through and are we putting new new employees and new customer servants in

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the right spots that's setting them up for success regardless of where the open

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spaces are really really important stuff so thank you for spending your valuable

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time with us here at the firefighter craftsmanship podcast please rate your

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view and follow the show on your favorite podcast player we really appreciate

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all of the support so far send some questions in we'd love to unpack some

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of these questions this was a question that we received of you know essentially

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it was why why are we doing the same thing over and over kind of a lemming

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effect and then I started to pay attention a little bit more to that and

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found some good research that I just shared with you all some good references

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in the show notes here so go check those out including this article that we used

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as kind of the foundational reference for this here as well as Seth Godin's blog

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and a cool downloadable about people like us do things like this from Seth

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Godin so smash on that follow button in your favorite app that way you never

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miss one of these weekly episodes released every single Wednesday hit us up at

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firefightercraftsmanship.com or firefightercraftsmanship.com backslash

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00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:47,120
podcast and stay smart thank you for listening to the firefighter craftsmanship

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00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,200
podcast where we give you real tools to train ultimate humor performance both

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on and off the emergency scene you can find more information on our web page

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at firefightercraftsmanship.com including all the classes that we offer and

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00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:05,160
there's plenty of free resources and training on the site as well reach out

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00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,760
to us on social media including Instagram and Facebook we'd love to have a

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conversation and figure out how we can help you achieve your goals stay smart