1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,000 Well, welcome back everyone to another episode of Faithfully Engaged. 2 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,780 Those of you that have been watching for a little while have known actually the first 3 00:00:18,780 --> 00:00:19,780 episode that I did. 4 00:00:19,780 --> 00:00:22,800 We had some technical issues on the first go. 5 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:24,600 So it was actually a second run. 6 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,040 And my guest today, Anna, we're doing a similar thing. 7 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:34,760 We had some issues, but she was gracious enough to come again and share with us her journey. 8 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,640 So today my guest, her name is Anna. 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,920 So Anna, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself? 10 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:42,600 Yes, thanks so much, Shani. 11 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:48,200 So my name is Anna McLaughlin, and I am a wife of, gosh, almost 13 years, mom to four 12 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:49,200 kiddos. 13 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,560 I was a corporate lawyer for a number of years and really had a passion to be home with my 14 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:59,560 children and through that process began the journey of homeschooling about seven or eight 15 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,560 years ago and entrepreneurship as well. 16 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:07,480 And so we kind of live a life a little bit out of the ordinary, which has allowed us to 17 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:12,520 have a significant amount of time with our family and to really seek to walk this path 18 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,000 that the Lord leads us on. 19 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,640 So step by step, it's just been a great ride. 20 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,880 That's what's so interesting about your story as you go. 21 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:26,120 Every thing that I don't know if I've ever heard in the same sentence there of corporate 22 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:31,400 lawyer, homeschool and entrepreneur, that those things to not mix all together. 23 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:32,400 They do not. 24 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:33,400 Nope. 25 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,080 It's been a stretching process. 26 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:43,200 So kind of walk us through that process a little bit of from lawyer to homeschool. 27 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,120 What did that process look like for you? 28 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:52,840 Yep, so I became a lawyer because I really loved learning. 29 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:53,840 I loved words. 30 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:55,480 I loved communication. 31 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,720 I loved asking questions, solving problems. 32 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:02,280 So I worked as a transactional lawyer, which meant I did mergers and acquisitions. 33 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:03,360 It's a corporate side of things. 34 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,840 I wasn't in a courtroom, in other words. 35 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:10,640 And I loved the work, but it was very intense, very long hours. 36 00:02:10,640 --> 00:02:18,880 I worked for a large law firm in my town of Charlotte, and I just found there was an incredible 37 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:23,440 tension between my work life and my home life. 38 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,720 I loved the life that I was building with my husband. 39 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:28,280 I loved being a wife. 40 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:29,920 I loved being a mother. 41 00:02:29,920 --> 00:02:37,560 And I just felt like we were constantly building two separate structures, his work and my work. 42 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,800 And then in between was this life we were trying to build together, which was really 43 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:46,360 suffering as a result of just honestly a lack of time, not a lack of desire, but just a lack 44 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:47,720 of time together. 45 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:53,640 So through that, through that experience, we just kept coming back to like, I kept saying, 46 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:54,640 I want to be home. 47 00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:57,200 I want to be home. 48 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:03,440 And then as we were making this transition, we were in a church that had a lot of homeschool 49 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:04,440 families. 50 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:11,920 And I was like, I just loved the idea of not only the amount of time that you get to have 51 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:16,240 with your children as a homeschool family, but also the amount of flexibility that we 52 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:22,120 could travel, that we could really sew into both my husband and I at the time had parents 53 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,160 that had significant health challenges. 54 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:29,560 And so being able to sew into their lives, be able to have just a lot of room. 55 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,560 It felt like we were without room. 56 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:36,920 And so that was the first piece of the puzzle. 57 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:42,560 As we continued, both my husband and I felt that we had landed in careers that did not 58 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:44,640 really match our giftings. 59 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:51,160 And so that feeling of, I kind of chose this path because it was one of a very few that 60 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,840 I knew of, for the joke with lawyers is we're smart people who don't like blood. 61 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,160 So we can't be a doctor because we don't want to be in the ER or whatever or go through 62 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:01,800 residency. 63 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,520 But we are intelligent and we want to use our intellects. 64 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,040 And so I just kind of walked down a path that seemed very wide. 65 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,160 It was like, okay, well, I guess this is the next step. 66 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:12,360 I'll go to law school. 67 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:17,520 And then I didn't know about, you get out into the adult world and you hear about people 68 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,320 who do things that you didn't even know existed in college. 69 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,640 And that was very much my experience, same for my husband. 70 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,640 And so we felt like we didn't want the same to happen to our children. 71 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:31,760 We wanted to help them identify their unique giftings from an early age, cultivate and 72 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:39,800 develop those and really kind of steward their gifts to really further the kingdom of God 73 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,480 in their small circle. 74 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,800 And so that was really, as time progressed, it became this burning passion more and more 75 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,520 of like, I am an expert on my children. 76 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,280 I want to help them become themselves. 77 00:04:51,280 --> 00:04:54,920 My dad used to say, the greatest gift of being a parent is watching your children become 78 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:59,360 who they always, you always knew that they were, who they've always been. 79 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:00,840 And so I grabbed hold of that. 80 00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:05,360 And my husband and I just kind of went all in on that idea of, let us help them become 81 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:11,520 fully themselves and love the work that they do in the world. 82 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:17,880 That's such a wonderful, wonderful little story there, which I know, I'm sure took all 83 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:24,880 sorts of waves at times and pain and all that stuff along the way, but a beautiful, 84 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:26,440 beautiful conclusion there. 85 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:32,920 And I love where you ended up of talking about your kids kind of seeing them become themselves. 86 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:38,640 And that's something that has been incredible for my wife and I. 87 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,160 My daughter is almost four, my son just turned two. 88 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:47,320 And as of this recording, our youngest son will be born hopefully next month at about 89 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:48,320 this time. 90 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:49,320 Congratulations. 91 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:50,320 Thank you. 92 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:56,000 I had a second boy to the mix or third kiddo. 93 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:03,280 But from the get go, this is what's been really interesting is we didn't have a perfect knowledge 94 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:11,640 of our children's personality, but we could see it even in the womb of their differences. 95 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,880 And my daughter's kicking through the stomach. 96 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,320 My son, I never felt him kick at all. 97 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:24,680 But Isaac, our youngest son, he seems to be somewhere there in the middle. 98 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:31,240 And I'm super curious to see when he comes out if he will kind of be that mixture between 99 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:32,480 his brother and sister. 100 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,680 But yeah, to be able to see that play out as a parent is awesome. 101 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:42,360 And I'm imagining you playing that more active role in their lives as a whole and especially 102 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:47,320 in their education has been such a joy for you to be able to see that. 103 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:48,520 It's been so much fun. 104 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:49,520 And it's so true. 105 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:54,400 I remember the same experience, especially when we got pregnant with our third child, 106 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:55,400 who was a girl. 107 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,160 So we had girl, boy, girl. 108 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,360 And having a second girl, it's like, oh, it's not boy and girl. 109 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,440 It's like Cora and Asher and Beth. 110 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:08,920 There is no mixing of each individual personality. 111 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,400 They are so much themselves. 112 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:17,400 And I will say, for anybody listening that's sitting there going, but I could never. 113 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:25,400 But homeschooling, I feel like is really just this surrender to mutual sanctification as 114 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:32,160 a family that we just kind of give ourselves over to the task of growing, saying, we're 115 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:36,040 willing to step into realms that we don't know what we're doing. 116 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:40,080 We're willing to maybe help our children learn something that we don't even know how to do 117 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:41,080 ourselves. 118 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:47,800 We're willing to kind of come to the end of our energy and the end of our time, the end 119 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:48,800 of our capacity. 120 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,560 And there's still many more hours to the day left. 121 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:52,560 It's lunchtime. 122 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:53,560 And I need a nap. 123 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,960 And here we've got another six hours of this day to go. 124 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:57,560 How are we going to do this? 125 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:03,600 And so I definitely, I know I have several friends who you can just see they were kind 126 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,080 of wired for homeschooling. 127 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:11,400 They love structure and sticky notes or their very free form. 128 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,960 And they're like, we're going to take a walk in the woods and press leaves into pages of 129 00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:15,960 books. 130 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:16,960 And I'm like, I have none of that. 131 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:18,680 I have none of that gifting. 132 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:24,920 But what I do have is a heart for my children and really a vision of the end goal. 133 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,040 And so my husband and I decided together, we got really clear on what's our purpose 134 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:29,800 of homeschooling. 135 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,400 And we decided it was, we had two goals. 136 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:37,440 We wanted our children to know the Lord their God with all their heart, mind, soul, to know 137 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,680 and love the Lord their God with all their heart, mind, soul and strength. 138 00:08:40,680 --> 00:08:43,080 And we wanted them to be intellectually curious. 139 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,920 We wanted them to enjoy the process of learning. 140 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:52,000 And if we could pull off those two things, then we would be shepherding them into society 141 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,760 as a productive adult. 142 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,800 They could become whatever it was the Lord was leading them to be because whatever they 143 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,080 didn't learn with us, they could get it. 144 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:09,880 And so having that clear purpose freed us up significantly to just not be, not know 145 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:15,920 what we were doing kind of because we, we haven't, we haven't known what we were doing, 146 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,480 but we've enjoyed our children and we've loved them. 147 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:24,240 You know, you look at the things that people need to navigate as adults and it's far less 148 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,840 about recalling the calculus problems that you did in high school or the conjugations 149 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:29,960 of verbs. 150 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,920 And it's far more about how do I communicate with people? 151 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:34,400 How do I listen well? 152 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:41,560 How do I, you know, stay in my lane and not get all, you know, egocentric or offended? 153 00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:42,560 How do I forgive? 154 00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:43,560 How do I love? 155 00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:45,480 How do I learn new things and adapt? 156 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:51,800 You know, it's far more those kind of deeper emotional resilience skills than it is this 157 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:56,200 like knowledge that got packed in a decade or two ago. 158 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:02,440 Yeah, absolutely, and I'm so glad you covered the side of I can't do that. 159 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,960 That's great that you can do it, but I know I could never do that. 160 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:12,440 And I don't like to speak in such a broad brush to say that everybody in the whole 161 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:17,160 world can homeschool without any problems at all. 162 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:24,240 But I will say that that is much more the case than the opposite. 163 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:29,400 The people that say that they can't almost assuredly you can. 164 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,760 But I guess that next question is why? 165 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:34,160 Why can't you? 166 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,920 And to actually process that. 167 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:42,880 And usually it's something that is either a misunderstanding of homeschooling, misunderstanding 168 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,360 of their abilities, just misunderstanding in general. 169 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:54,200 Yeah, something I do with my clients and my day job as a counselor is I like to, you 170 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,760 know, to let them know both sides of the equation. 171 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,960 On the one hand, I want to normalize whatever your problem is. 172 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:03,720 Yeah, it is an issue. 173 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:09,120 Like I don't want to act like you saying, hey, I struggle with going to homeschooling. 174 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:14,920 I don't want you to act like that's a stupid question or that your fears and anxieties aren't 175 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:15,920 real. 176 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:16,920 They are. 177 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,200 And it is a sacrifice, no doubt. 178 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,880 But on the other hand, you can do it. 179 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:24,080 You absolutely can. 180 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:29,200 And it's about making that commitment and then just doing it. 181 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:33,480 And I love your part there of what is my purpose here? 182 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:39,240 Because when you strip it down to those two main purposes, I could do that. 183 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:40,240 That's not that hard. 184 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,200 Yeah, yeah, it's so true. 185 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:46,840 And I think part of one thing that we've, and just knowing a little bit about your show, 186 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,200 it wouldn't surprise me if you haven't covered this topic over the past months. 187 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:58,000 But I find one of the things that we are leaning into in our culture is this idea of we need 188 00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,400 the expert involved. 189 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,200 Like we can't really, we can't do it on our own. 190 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,200 We have to go and outsource to somebody else. 191 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:14,920 And so if we start with that framework, then I'm not an expert at geometry or physics or 192 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,720 languages or any of those things. 193 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:24,080 So therefore, by definition, I must be giving my children an inadequate education if the 194 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,320 goal is to outsource to the experts. 195 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,760 And so that's why it's been so grounding for me to get clear on our purpose, because I 196 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,080 actually am an expert on my children. 197 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,240 And I am the best expert on my children. 198 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:40,080 My husband and I have been with them since before they took their first breath and have 199 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:46,240 been studying them with rapt attention, fascinated by everything that they do or frustrated, 200 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:50,520 you know, deeply emotionally affected by everything they do. 201 00:12:50,520 --> 00:13:01,760 And so if my job is to, is to sew into them the best information on a language and a mass 202 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:08,880 skill and a, and you know, as a history lesson, then yeah, maybe I'm not the best person. 203 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:14,120 But if my job rather is actually to bring out of them their own vents and giftings, like 204 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,800 I've been saying to my kids since they were little, you know, I see this in you. 205 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,240 Does this resonate like my oldest, you seem to really love art. 206 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:22,240 Is that true? 207 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:23,720 Yeah, I just love it. 208 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:24,960 And you know, so what do we do? 209 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:30,880 We go out of our way to find opportunities to expose her to creative outlets, you know, 210 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,120 to, hey, like what are you drawing right now, bringing her to art camp? 211 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,680 We certainly do out, it's not that we never bring in an expert, but we're very, we're 212 00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:44,320 cultivating an education that is customized for her. 213 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:50,520 And so when I lay down this idea of, so more, you know, the current educational model is 214 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,880 more based on you put stuff in a child's brain. 215 00:13:53,880 --> 00:14:00,280 And our philosophy, which is not just made up by us, but it's, it's, I forget his name, 216 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,700 I think it's Ken Roberts or Robinson, he's in the UK and he has a lot of really interesting 217 00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:05,700 stuff on education. 218 00:14:05,700 --> 00:14:09,560 I did a deep dive on his stuff about a decade ago when I first started looking in the homes 219 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:16,680 school, he, he talks about drawing out our child's gifting, identifying who they are 220 00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:18,600 and helping to cultivate that. 221 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,800 And that is something that a parent is, is uniquely equipped to do. 222 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,840 So it really does become a journey that we can start to imagine, Oh, I think I actually 223 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:27,840 could do that. 224 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,480 I can help them become who they are and better versions of themselves. 225 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,160 So it, it takes off some of the pressure away. 226 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:41,040 I love that you brought up the trust, you didn't say this, but it is the trust, the 227 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:46,000 experts, that kind of goes into other COVID issues and all sorts of things. 228 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:52,400 Yeah, I thought you had to cover that. 229 00:14:52,400 --> 00:15:00,080 There's a degree here of, of humility that, to kind of be fair of to recognize our limitations, 230 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,840 and I'm not saying as homeschool just in general, that we're not all knowing about every 231 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:06,560 subject in the whole wide world. 232 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,480 Like that, that part of that is true. 233 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:15,600 There are people that know more about certain subjects than we do, and we can glean from 234 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,000 them in certain ways. 235 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:27,840 I'm not artistic in the slightest, but if my child is starting to lean that way, I know 236 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,880 them, I'm able to bring that out and maybe I can get them to somebody that can help teach 237 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,480 them that. 238 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:39,680 That's being able to, to cultivate that, like you're saying, as opposed to, well, I'm just 239 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:40,760 a dumb, dumb with art. 240 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:42,680 I can't do anything about that. 241 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,080 Somebody's got to do my job for me. 242 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:47,080 Not helpful. 243 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:48,080 Yep. 244 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:49,080 Yep. 245 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:50,080 And it's such a good point too. 246 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,280 I was laughing when you said that neither my husband nor I have any artistic bent whatsoever. 247 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:58,560 And so we, you know, the argument of, well, I can't teach them because I don't know it. 248 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,840 It assumes again that our children are empty vessels that we put things into, but all we 249 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:04,440 need to do with my daughter. 250 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:09,040 She's been copying book, you know, copying pictures from, from storybooks and from, you 251 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,200 know, some, I don't even remember where we got little learn how to draw guides. 252 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,400 She's been doing that on her own steam forever. 253 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:20,840 And so all we need to do is acknowledge this is a gift that we see in you and let's help 254 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:22,760 you improve upon it. 255 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:29,280 So it really, it does, it takes a lot of the, it makes our job a lot lighter because we're 256 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:33,160 not having to, you know, kids want to learn. 257 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,120 The world is fascinating. 258 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,360 And so we just have to light that spark and, you know, even just a walk around the neighborhood 259 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,840 with your toddler going, what kind of flower do you think that is? 260 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:43,840 What do you see? 261 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:48,560 You know, we're drawing out their analytical skills, which funnily enough is what that, 262 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,160 when I was a lawyer, I remember thinking as we started having children, I want to give 263 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:57,920 my children the education I got in law school because I remember just being so stretched 264 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:02,720 academically and what they do in law school is they teach you how to think critically. 265 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,920 And so, and this is what the Romans were excellent at with the Socratic method. 266 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:07,920 Where was that? 267 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:12,200 The Greeks, well, they both, the Romans took everything from the Greeks, but, you know, 268 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:17,240 they drew out this deep thinking by asking questions. 269 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:22,760 And that's what we do just in life with our children. 270 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,920 More excellent points there. 271 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:30,040 There was something earlier on the, on the expert side, I just thought of this. 272 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:37,560 I might have shared this on an earlier podcast, but there was a person in my hometown, he's 273 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:44,240 a dentist actually, and they had their kids in public school, just kind of same normal 274 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:45,360 stuff. 275 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:51,000 And in this situation, and I love harping on this because I've mentioned this several 276 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:56,760 times, I'm in a red part in Oklahoma, like we're red as red as red could be. 277 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:02,680 And sometimes there's that mindset here of, Oh, well, that stuff doesn't happen here. 278 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,800 Our schools are fine here. 279 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:06,800 You're wrong. 280 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:08,200 It does happen here. 281 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:15,200 And anyways, this kid's daughter had a non binary classmate or something. 282 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,800 I don't remember exactly what something in that sphere. 283 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,600 And the dad was like, you know what? 284 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,480 I don't want my, I don't know. 285 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:25,480 She's like six or seven. 286 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,200 I don't want my six or seven year old exposed to this. 287 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,920 No, we're not doing it. 288 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,560 And they had no plans. 289 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:40,040 They just pulled her out and in fact, found like a spot in the dentist office for the 290 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:44,880 rest of the school year, and they just did home school in the, in the dentist office. 291 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:49,080 And since that, I think they've, they've gotten a more structured approach. 292 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,160 But again, that shows like this guy's working. 293 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,280 Like they still made it work. 294 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:57,280 Yes. 295 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:03,600 And because he was the expert of his child to your point of, I know that's not something 296 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,760 she needs to be exposed to right now. 297 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,560 And I don't trust how they will handle that. 298 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:09,880 So let me get her out. 299 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:15,080 And I just love that story because it's, it wasn't this big elaborate. 300 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:16,800 We have to get all the structure. 301 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:21,200 It's, let's just read some books in this corner office and make the best of it until 302 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:22,200 we can figure it out. 303 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,160 And I just love parents taking that over like that. 304 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,160 Oh, that's right. 305 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:31,000 Well, and it's such a faith growing experience for us as parents to just say, I know the 306 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,160 next step. 307 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,440 The next step is we're not here anymore. 308 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,800 We're going somewhere new and we don't know what it's going to look like a year or two, 309 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,480 10 years down the road. 310 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,040 But we know that we're supposed to make a change. 311 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,800 And I just want to encourage anybody who's feeling that tug of like, maybe we're supposed 312 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:48,240 to take our kids out of school. 313 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,920 Maybe we're supposed to start with homeschooling. 314 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,520 The beautiful thing about homeschool is you get to change your mind. 315 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:55,520 It's very flexible. 316 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:59,960 I've had friends who have unenrolled their children from public school, reenrolled their 317 00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:04,680 children in public school, done a monestory, done a private school, you know, there's so 318 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,520 much flexibility. 319 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:12,680 And so there's really not this, this kind of like, we don't have to be terrified because 320 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,520 we can change our minds. 321 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:20,360 And so, and then the other thing is this is just an opportunity to, to exercise our faith 322 00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:23,320 in the Lord to go, okay, I know this next step. 323 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:29,160 And it's been so precious to watch when we take, when we, when we get out of this rote 324 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:33,120 kind of lockstep approach of, well, we'll just figure out who the teacher is this year. 325 00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:35,800 And then they'll go on that track and then we'll figure out who the teacher is next year 326 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:41,080 and then go on that track, you know, to really have these open hands and go, okay, what's 327 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:42,640 next Lord? 328 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:48,400 He puts the curriculum and the people and the community and the, and the, you know, kind 329 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,000 of extra special classes in our path. 330 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,360 And it's like, oh, okay, this is next. 331 00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:59,800 And you know, what my, my friend in, in our homeschool community says, says, Moss doesn't 332 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,920 really gather on a homeschool family. 333 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,520 Like we're always rolling to something new. 334 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:09,600 But I think it's because we've been invited into this journey with the Lord that is very, 335 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,760 I like to say we're kind of light on our feet. 336 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,240 Like, oh, it looks a little different now. 337 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,320 We're going to pivot over here. 338 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:19,600 And it really, it creates a beautiful invitation to intimacy with the Lord. 339 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:24,000 Not that there aren't other ways to get that, but it, but it has truly deepened my faith 340 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,720 because I rely on him for the next steps for my children. 341 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:35,480 I think that's a wonderful part there of, yeah, and increasing your faith as a parent 342 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:40,920 to rely on him for that wisdom and for the people he places in your life. 343 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:47,520 And also the, the faith in, in your kids, and that's in my wife and I's journey. 344 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:54,600 The first step, like there was some faith involved, but it really was a like where there's smoke, 345 00:21:54,600 --> 00:22:00,080 there's fire type of thing of all of these stories after stories of kids being called 346 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:05,320 a different pronoun and stuff and not parents being told really, no, we're just not, we're 347 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,760 just not going to do it. 348 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:13,720 But the more that we went into it, that, so that was an initial like a fear reason to 349 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,880 have that initial motivation. 350 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,560 And while that was a good starting place, that's not, that's not sustainable to just 351 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,800 live and, and fear. 352 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:30,080 And now it's this like, this joy of part of their homework is like memorizing scripture. 353 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,440 Like that's, that's awesome. 354 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,520 All right. 355 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:41,520 My two year old, so we've been doing some catechisms with my three year old real basic 356 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,520 things. 357 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,600 It's like who made me God made me. 358 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:47,920 Yes. 359 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:53,160 And what's great about it, I mean, it's so beautiful seeing her share that, but because 360 00:22:53,160 --> 00:23:01,360 my two year old has heard her do it so much, we ask him who made you and he says God. 361 00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:06,640 I don't think he fully understands that, but he knows it. 362 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,000 And he has got it down. 363 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,200 He does it 100% of the time. 364 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:17,520 And being able to have that injected in them at such a young age and for it to be so natural, 365 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,080 we're not fighting with them. 366 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,560 In fact, the only fight we have is when we ask my son to do it, my daughter's like, no, 367 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,800 I want to do it. 368 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:27,800 It's beautiful. 369 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:33,760 It really is and speaks to that creativity that you can have that we don't have to just 370 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,040 sit here and do public school in the home. 371 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,160 We can make it our own. 372 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:40,160 It's so true. 373 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,720 Oh, that's beautiful. 374 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:52,280 On the topic of other people, I'm pretty big on this that not completely doing homeschooling 375 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:58,360 on your own and you were alluding to that, being involved with other families and things 376 00:23:58,360 --> 00:23:59,600 like that. 377 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,560 What advice would you give, especially to somebody that's really green, that haven't 378 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,520 started homeschooling of where do I find these people? 379 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,760 What should I do to be connected with other people? 380 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,240 There are so many resources now. 381 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,200 Even a generation ago, it was not this way. 382 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:25,000 But I would just start by saying be encouraged that there are probably too many options, 383 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,960 far more likely than too few. 384 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:34,000 If you know people who homeschool, asking them is the best first step because then you 385 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,200 already have, assuming you like them, you already have kind of an inkling of, well, if 386 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,400 they like this, then I might too. 387 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,080 That's a great first step. 388 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:51,880 If you don't know anybody in your circle, I love resourcing. 389 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:58,040 Even a Facebook post, hey, does anybody know anybody in my town that is a homeschool family 390 00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,240 that you could connect us? 391 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,440 Then there are also so many groups. 392 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:08,880 I'm on Facebook, Instagram, if you're not other social media platforms that you have. 393 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:15,120 There are homeschool groups for your town or your city. 394 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:21,720 Looking at different, just Googling homeschool curriculum and seeing what each website looks 395 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:22,720 like. 396 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,680 Keep in mind it's a sales pitch, but they have their people in mind. 397 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:34,280 Whether it's are you looking for something that's more kind of, some of the key categories 398 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:39,120 that you'll see pop up, Charlotte Mason is a very common one, which is more using whole 399 00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:45,800 books, getting in nature, journaling, unschooling is, let's just wake up and kind of see where 400 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,320 things lead us. 401 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,200 What is the child, very child led learning? 402 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,200 The type A part of me doesn't really lean that direction. 403 00:25:53,200 --> 00:26:00,000 I don't know much about it, but I'm just giving kind of the highlights to get people started. 404 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:07,840 Classical conversations is what I use, which is it's a hybrid of a community and self-directed. 405 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,880 You have one day in community and then you spend the other days at home. 406 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,240 Classical conversations is a classical model, but there are other classical models you can 407 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,880 use as well. 408 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,440 The classical model says basically, first we're going to learn the words for things, 409 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,120 and we're going to memorize. 410 00:26:24,120 --> 00:26:27,640 Just like you were talking about, our kids are little sponges when they're in those ages 411 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:32,280 that you're describing, kind of two to upper elementary, mid to upper elementary. 412 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,040 They just take in everything you say and they can parrot it right back to you. 413 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,600 They don't know the meaning and significance like you said yet, but that's okay. 414 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:40,600 They don't need to. 415 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,400 It's not time yet, developmentally. 416 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,640 And then in their upper elementary to middle school, they lean into asking a lot of questions. 417 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:47,640 Why? 418 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:48,640 Why? 419 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:49,640 Why? 420 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:50,640 Why? 421 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:51,640 Why? 422 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:52,640 Why? 423 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:53,640 Why? 424 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:54,640 Why? 425 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:55,640 Why? 426 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:56,640 Why? 427 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:57,960 So, it's about progression and here's why. 428 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,800 And we can see this progression even in younger kids in their area of expertise. 429 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,540 If you've ever had your 3-year-old talk your ear off about the pros and cons of a certain 430 00:27:07,540 --> 00:27:13,920 color of play-doh, or why I like being outside after lunch instead of inside, they can move 431 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:21,120 into this expert area earlier on in certain categories of their lives. 432 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:26,400 But classical conversations really is more how I learned in law school. 433 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,920 And so for me, it was a very comfortable, sweet home for me. 434 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,040 And I've done several different things. 435 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:34,960 But there are homeschool conventions. 436 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:43,680 There are different, I mean, we went to what's called a co-op, which is just a group of homeschool 437 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:49,120 families that get together and maybe they take turns teaching lessons to the kids. 438 00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:50,960 Maybe it's more of a play group. 439 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:56,280 But the idea is creating some form of a school collectively. 440 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:02,160 And I found it because I somehow got the name of a homeschool gymnastics class. 441 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,240 And then I show up to the class and all the other moms knew each other. 442 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:06,560 I was like, how do you guys know each other? 443 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:07,720 Oh, we're part of this co-op. 444 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:08,640 You want to come visit? 445 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,560 And so that was our home for two or three years. 446 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,440 And it was a great little place to land. 447 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:20,240 So again, it's that balance of take your steps, go to the homeschool convention, go to the meetup groups, 448 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,800 and then watching the Lord direct and recognizing you don't have to be anywhere forever. 449 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,160 You don't even have to be there long. 450 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,200 And don't be afraid. 451 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,240 You know, your kids aren't going to be weird. 452 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,200 They're going to be just fine. 453 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,680 And there are innumerable resources. 454 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:37,440 And I'm happy. 455 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,400 I know we'll talk about my contact information at the end. 456 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,600 But if anybody has any questions that you just want to have an ear to connect with, 457 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,720 I'm happy to be that for folks as well. 458 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,600 And you just mentioned that right there. 459 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:57,720 My wife and I have, I guess you can, in a sense, we have already homeschooled by doing little things here and there, 460 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,960 which is great. 461 00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:04,840 But we didn't, you know, we haven't had this planned up for a long time. 462 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,080 Our kids aren't very old. 463 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,400 So by no means are we experts on that. 464 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:09,800 There's that expert word. 465 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,800 But we are experts on our kiddos. 466 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:23,520 But I say all that to say that that has been the vast majority of experience I've had with anything in the homeschool community. 467 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,160 It's like this massive family. 468 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:34,680 And I believe it when you say that, hey, come ask me and anybody else that's in your church or in your home, 469 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,440 if you ask them, they're probably going to help you out. 470 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,880 So don't be afraid to ask. 471 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:40,920 Yep, it's so true. 472 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:47,880 And at the end of the day, when I first started, I wanted someone to, I used to kind of say to the Lord, 473 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,520 just tell me what to do and I'll do it, God. 474 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:50,640 I just want the rulebook. 475 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,520 Like tell me what to do and I'll do it. 476 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:53,760 He doesn't work that way. 477 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:59,400 And so at the end of the day, you're going to start shopping different opinions and you're going to find that if you ask 10 people, 478 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,280 you get 10 different approaches. 479 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:06,440 And it's going to drive you bonkers if you want to have a rulebook to go by. 480 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:15,360 But as, you know, as uncomfortable as it can be to sit with, God knows how to lead you through your children's education. 481 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:16,400 And you don't need to know. 482 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:23,160 Just like I remember when my children, when my first was born, I was so worried because I was like, I'm going to mess her up, Lord. 483 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,040 I didn't come from a Christian home. 484 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,120 I don't know how to raise her to know the Lord. 485 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:32,800 And then she came and I was like, oh, I kind of just need to hold her and like change your diaper and feed her. 486 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,880 Like, OK, I can do this. 487 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:41,080 And, you know, if he had started us out with an 11 year old, it would have been a really steep learning curve, you know, 488 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,840 but we grow with our children. 489 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:49,800 And so home school is meant to be the same, especially if we start out when they're teeny tiny. 490 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:57,720 Yeah, you sit down and you do a catechism question and they're playing Play-Doh and you're kind of showing them a letter and you make the letter with the Play-Doh. 491 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,800 And then they want to go like build with blocks for a while. 492 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:01,720 And that's your school day. 493 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:02,880 And it took 10 minutes. 494 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:03,720 You know, that's it. 495 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:04,720 That's great. 496 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,040 And then they're like, OK, I'm going to go to school. 497 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,320 This next question is kind of intentionally vague a little bit. 498 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,400 And I'm not expecting one straight answer. 499 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,600 And you kind of addressed it in what you just said. 500 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:22,640 When somebody is, again, especially new and you're right, there are a billion different 501 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,000 curriculums and co-ops and all those things. 502 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:32,880 And in a sense, public school is kind of nice that you don't really have choices. 503 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:34,560 Here's your teacher. 504 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:35,480 Here's your classes. 505 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:36,960 Go do it. 506 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,320 And it takes that guesswork out. 507 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:48,080 So for those people getting started, do you suggest to like, hey, I have these two options. 508 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,160 Like, do you just say throw a dart at it and try which one's best? 509 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:58,120 Like, what advice would you give as far as making that first decision and how long should they stick with it? 510 00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:58,840 Yeah. 511 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:14,160 So I would say take a look at your personality and try to find a curriculum that feels like it's going to, I almost want to say, like, settle your nervous system down. 512 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:19,480 You know, if you're, so I'm more of a type A. So I started with what they call box curriculums. 513 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:26,600 And so that's a couple examples are Sunlight, S-O-N, like the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 514 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,720 Sunlight and My Father's World. 515 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,800 Both are Christian curriculums. 516 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:32,560 There are others. 517 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,240 I think Rebecca is one. 518 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:49,320 And those, essentially, you buy a kit that has your daily lesson plans and it's got all of your books and all of your worksheets and everything that you need for a whole school year all packaged up. 519 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,760 So that's what we did really first when we were getting started. 520 00:32:53,760 --> 00:33:02,560 As we said, okay, this is where we're going to land because this is going to help my type A personality calm down. 521 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:03,800 Okay, I've got the boxes. 522 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,360 I just go through and check the boxes. 523 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:06,200 I've got the worksheets. 524 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:07,080 I check the worksheets. 525 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:07,680 What do we read? 526 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,280 This is what we read. 527 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,920 That was great for my personality. 528 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:20,640 If you're a little bit more artistic and outside of the box, you know, looking at the more kind of free form options might feel really good. 529 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:26,760 And so I feel like it's, you know, I think that for me, the big box was like someone holding my hand. 530 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,160 Just take these steps. 531 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:36,120 Most, most curriculums that you buy, which though, you know, you're, you can kind of craft your own thing. 532 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:42,160 You can literally put a kindergarten first, second grade curriculum together buying workbooks on Amazon. 533 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,200 You know, it doesn't have to be as complicated as we often think. 534 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:51,120 And so it was more expensive for us to start from scratch and say we're buying the whole box curriculum. 535 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,000 Still far less than private school. 536 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,360 That was always my line with my husband, look, it's less than private school. 537 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,120 He's like, we weren't going to do private school. 538 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,920 We're not actually, we're not really saving money in this argument. 539 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:07,720 But, but we, we started somewhere where I felt comfortable. 540 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:16,160 People who have a little bit more kind of tolerance for practice than I did when I got started, you know, maybe you're building things through workbooks. 541 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:25,800 One thing I will say that really helped me was at least in our state, North Carolina, you don't even register as a homeschool until your oldest turn seven. 542 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,280 And then you don't add your children to the homeschool register until the year that they turn seven. 543 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,000 So in my mind, I was like, oh, she's four. 544 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:37,080 Like this is all freebies, you know, no one's even watching. 545 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,840 And so it was nice to start early and kind of get a little bit of practice. 546 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,320 Oh, and what I was, so that's, I was like, where was I going? 547 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:51,320 When most of those big box curriculums will give you a trial period of like a free, free returns for a significant amount of time. 548 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:58,280 I want to say it's I've never availed myself of that, but I want to say it's like two to six months that you can actually return the curriculum. 549 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,520 Say this isn't working and they'll refund your money. 550 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:07,640 And so, you know, I'm just from my business world. 551 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:14,240 My recommendation with my people is depending on what you're trying, try it for at least 30 to 90 days. 552 00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:23,360 And so I don't know that there's any sort of great rule of thumb, but you want to give it some time to kind of you want to kind of sell it first. 553 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,040 First, you buy into it yourself as a parent. This is what we're doing. I believe in it. 554 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:31,640 I'm ready to commit to this for the short term as the best next step. 555 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:37,240 Then we have to kind of sell it to our children, but I want to go, but I want to do, but I want to know you're not the teacher. 556 00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:42,040 You're not, you know, and so that there we get to exercise discipline and authority. 557 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,040 And those are things they need to learn to. 558 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:50,360 But I watched. So for us, we did we did two years of sunlight. 559 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,800 We did a year of my father's world in kindergarten and then two years of sunlight. 560 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:59,640 And that second year of sunlight was my son's was my second born's first year doing curriculum. 561 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,600 And he hated it. 562 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:02,840 He didn't want to sit still. 563 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:04,280 He wanted to run around. 564 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,880 He wasn't retaining any of the information. It wasn't engaging. 565 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:15,680 And before we had really started officially homeschooling, we had we had bopped into classical conversations for one year when my daughter was four. 566 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,840 So she was four. I had a two year old. 567 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,520 I had a baby and then we had one on the way by the time we got to the end of the year. 568 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,320 So we were crazy. 569 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,280 And I totally didn't understand what the point of it was. 570 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,920 And I totally didn't understand the model. 571 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,640 And I didn't ask questions because I was embarrassed, 572 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,680 which is one thing I would say ask questions. 573 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,640 Nobody's nobody's going to be like, I can't believe you don't know that, right? 574 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,080 You're not supposed to be an expert homeschooler, all right, ever, ever. 575 00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:45,440 Your children will leave the house and you will not feel like you were an expert homeschooler. 576 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:51,800 But I but years later, fast forward to that second year in sunlight, 577 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:57,320 I was like, we're still singing those songs that we learned three years ago in classical conversations. 578 00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,520 And my son had picked up the songs. 579 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,960 And, you know, there was a song about the different continents because in classical 580 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,760 conversations, it's all about vocabulary. 581 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,160 We're going to learn the grammar of what these things are. 582 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,040 And I didn't I didn't know any more about classical 583 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,480 conversations at that point than I did three years prior. 584 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,960 But I was like, huh, I think you'd like singing. 585 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,280 And that was literally all it was that brought us back to classical conversations. 586 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,840 Two years later, Johnny, I finally make it to our kind of training, 587 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,640 our practice, we called a practicum, but it's basically where you get to 588 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:32,840 because this was all during COVID. 589 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:34,640 So there weren't in-person meetings and everything. 590 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,800 So finally make it to a training. 591 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,480 I've now had two years of classical conversations, one when my daughter was four 592 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:43,400 and then one with everybody in in the classroom. 593 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,320 And during practicum, they walked us through the learning process, 594 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,200 the model of how they teach, which is what I told you about, 595 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,320 at first the words, then the questions, and then the and then the arguments. 596 00:37:55,320 --> 00:38:00,200 And I started crying sitting in that room because I realized this is law school. 597 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,640 Here I am walking my children through a process of learning how to think 598 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,080 that I went through in my twenties that I committed to the Lord. 599 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,040 I said, I want to teach my children how to learn this way. 600 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:11,160 I don't know how to do that. 601 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,880 I'm not a law professor, but I want them to learn through asking questions. 602 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,400 I want them to be really good, critical thinkers. 603 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:23,160 I want to help them be strategic because ultimately because of what we know of God, 604 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:28,320 when we ask good questions and we're like open hearted and willing, 605 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,480 you know, like curious, willing to hear the answer, 606 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,720 which is why I want intellectually curious children, they will find God 607 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,480 because he is the only truth. 608 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,280 So I don't have to be afraid of, you know, are my children going to believe or not? 609 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,560 I'm going to teach them how to ask good questions and think critically, 610 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,880 and they will ultimately find the Father every time. 611 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,880 And so I just burst into tears realizing here we are. 612 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,440 Here we are with all my imperfections with, you know, it's not like I sat down 613 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,200 and set out and said, well, I want them to learn, you know, to ask good questions. 614 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:56,560 And I want them to learn to think critically. 615 00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,760 So we're going to choose this curriculum because this, nope, 616 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,600 the Lord brought me into it because we remembered a couple of songs about continents. 617 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:09,200 And so that was a really long way of saying ultimately, start where you are, 618 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,920 be patient with yourself, and then trust the goodness of God to knit this thing 619 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:18,800 together in a way that's very profound and fortifies your faith in ways that, 620 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:23,400 you know, just a handful of other things in life do, you know, parenting being one. 621 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,560 And so it's just another layer of that, that strengthening of our faith to go. 622 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:28,680 He did this for me. 623 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:37,760 Oftentimes in examples, both in my personal life and then also with my clients, 624 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,360 I'll use a sports metaphor. 625 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,200 That's just the way my brain kind of works. 626 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:48,400 And I always think of some of the best, best quarterbacks out there. 627 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,320 And when they're throwing the ball and they're, they're trying to get their 628 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:57,280 receiver down the field, there is an inherent risk that when they throw the ball, 629 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,200 that the other team could get it and intercept it. 630 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:01,520 And that would be a mistake. 631 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:08,000 The best quarterbacks, though, despite there being that risk, they do it anyways. 632 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,200 And sometimes they do make mistakes. 633 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:10,680 They do. 634 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,280 They don't throw interceptions. 635 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:17,960 But if they're so focused on not throwing interception, their goal is to not do, 636 00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:19,680 or to not be bad. 637 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:26,200 They're not as good because they're not having faith in trusting the game plan, 638 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,520 trusting their, the play, trusting their, their teammates. 639 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,600 They have to have that faith there. 640 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:39,000 Now that is a microcosm, tiny little thing of showing faith in God, who is much 641 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,440 bigger than a quarterback or coach or anything like that. 642 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:48,880 But when we're so focused on our little aspects there, we're missing it. 643 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,600 We're missing the faith in, in God. 644 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:56,720 And at times we might feel like we're playing it safe of, yeah, I'll put 645 00:40:56,720 --> 00:41:01,200 them in public school so I don't mess it all up or I'll do this over here 646 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:02,480 because I could really mess it up. 647 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:08,800 And the reality is to not sugarcoat, like, could you make mistakes that could 648 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:09,880 be bad in homeschool? 649 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:10,840 Sure, you could. 650 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,400 But you think the teacher can't make mistakes too? 651 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:18,560 Of course they can. 652 00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:21,680 So it's having faith in God ultimately. 653 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,440 And knowing it's not about you, it's not about your effort. 654 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,760 It's about knowing your kids, knowing God and putting them in the best 655 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:31,880 position that you know how. 656 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:34,040 Oh, it's so true. 657 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:34,880 It's so true. 658 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:41,040 And, you know, I think so much of it comes down to really what, what is the 659 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,560 Lord, where is the Lord leading? 660 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,640 And so I was talking to a friend earlier today and we just kind of kept 661 00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:48,440 coming back to it. 662 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:49,800 All comes back to the Father. 663 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,240 It all comes back to the Father. 664 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,320 You know, we want to know the right answer. 665 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:54,400 What should I do? 666 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,160 The right answer is only known by one and that's the Lord. 667 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:03,160 And so when our hearts are well attuned to him, when we're kind of leaning 668 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,160 our heads against his chest every morning to listen to his heartbeat, you know, 669 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:07,160 where are you leading me? 670 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:08,440 Where are you directing me? 671 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,160 Then, then we're, then we're being faithful. 672 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,320 And I will, we'll say to some, you know, you might have some listeners where 673 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,600 they're like, our kids are in public school right now. 674 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,160 Our kids are in private school right now. 675 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,040 Like there's no shame on this end. 676 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,600 You know, I mean, there can be the, the key question is what is the Lord 677 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:25,400 leading you to? 678 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:31,080 And we just need to watch, watch our, I could never, right? 679 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:31,640 Oh, I could. 680 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:37,320 Like, like we, we, we might miss a significant blessing if we're walking 681 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:42,400 in fear and saying, well, I can't possibly or I shouldn't, or it's not a good idea. 682 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:51,680 You know, God, God equips us by like as we walk, right? 683 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,360 He doesn't equip us beforehand. 684 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,480 We want to know that the grace is going to be there to catch us once we step, 685 00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:58,840 but we have to be willing. 686 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:03,160 You know, I mean, I just like, it's like the, the age old, you know, story. 687 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,160 We've all talked about a million times of Peter getting out of the boat. 688 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,880 He didn't know the ways we're going to hold him until he put his feet out there. 689 00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,440 And the other men didn't do it, you know, like we can look all we want to 690 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:19,240 at how he went down a couple of seconds later, but he is the only human being, 691 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:24,080 you know, fully, fully human and not fully God human being who has ever, as far 692 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,360 as we know, who has ever walked on top of the water. 693 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,480 And he was able to do it because he was willing to step before he knew. 694 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:35,720 And, you know, we, we are called, we are invited to the same. 695 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:40,880 So if you look at your schedule and you're like, I don't, I mean, my husband 696 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:42,120 and I are both entrepreneurs. 697 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,240 We had four children in six years. 698 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,320 I had health challenges, mental health challenges. 699 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:48,800 My husband's had health challenges. 700 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:49,880 He's had surgeries. 701 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,320 We've lost two parents. 702 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,600 We have, you know, before my dad died, he lived out of town and I would travel 703 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:56,600 and help him. 704 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,800 I could list a number of reasons that we couldn't do it. 705 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,200 And I can tell you, we did, in many seasons, we did it very poorly. 706 00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:08,960 I will say in my estimation, I think I did a really bad job. 707 00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:10,880 I'm not very consistent. 708 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,600 I kind of, I would get up and be like, oh, I've got this other stuff to do 709 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,040 or the house is messy or the baby needs me. 710 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:24,560 And, and yet still we have, we have a family that knows each other, 711 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,280 that has worked really hard to understand and love each other well. 712 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:30,200 And we are growing. 713 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:32,880 And there's something to be said for that. 714 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:39,640 So, so I would say that the two pieces are no shame for wherever your feet 715 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:48,040 are today and rather than determine from a very like limited view, whether you 716 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:55,560 can or you cannot ask instead, Lord, are you inviting me to something deeper? 717 00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:57,400 Yeah. 718 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:03,880 No, I think that's just so important because it's taking us out of the equation, 719 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,040 our doubts, our fears, all of that. 720 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,320 And yeah, God, where, where are you leading me? 721 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:09,600 Where are you leading my family? 722 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,800 And, and listening to that and not a, I can't do this. 723 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:15,600 I shouldn't do this. 724 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:16,960 It's not prudent or whatever. 725 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:17,520 Mm hmm. 726 00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:19,200 Those aren't good reasons. 727 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,720 Um, it's, if God is leading me there, great. 728 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:27,760 If he's not, or if I just don't know right now, okay, well, then we'll take time. 729 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:33,400 Um, but not out of a spirit of fear that, that doesn't, that doesn't lead to anything good. 730 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:34,560 That's so right. 731 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:35,320 That's exactly right. 732 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:43,160 Well, and, uh, I am so glad that we didn't have tech issues and all sorts of 733 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,840 problems to interrupt our conversation this time. 734 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:46,200 Me too. 735 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:47,040 Me too. 736 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:47,440 It's great. 737 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:53,400 I know that there's people that are listening to this that like, oh, I have all sorts of 738 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,520 questions or, uh, they want to stay in contact with you. 739 00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,240 So, uh, how can they be in contact with you after the show? 740 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:01,400 Yeah, I'd love to connect with your people. 741 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:06,920 So I'm on Instagram and my handle is she considers a field, which is a reference to 742 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:11,040 the proverbs 31 passage where a woman considered the, what the righteous woman 743 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:12,560 considers a field and she buys it. 744 00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:17,000 And I also have a Facebook group with the same name that you can find through my 745 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,040 Instagram or through the link in your show notes. 746 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:23,840 If you do that, Johnny, and, um, that's a group where I basically just cultivate 747 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:25,640 a conversation among women of faith. 748 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:30,320 Um, it's a combination of, um, of really just let's talk about wholeness. 749 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:35,960 What does it look like to heal and then, um, and then grow and then serve in our 750 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:36,520 communities. 751 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,760 A lot of times we just want to go straight to service, but how do we heal and 752 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,600 then grow and then serve and, uh, really sit at the feet of the father. 753 00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:45,320 And then I'm also, I'm a strategist. 754 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:51,480 I love collecting all kinds of different tools to equip women of faith to just be 755 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:52,920 more effective in their families. 756 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:57,480 I grab kind of entrepreneur materials and mindset stuff and I love to share that. 757 00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:59,200 So that's on both of those platforms. 758 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,320 And I would love to talk to your people and then anything homeschool specific, 759 00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,040 because I know we really focused on that conversation, which I love. 760 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,040 Um, just message me, ask me any questions that you have. 761 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:09,720 I'm happy to be a support to your folks. 762 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:11,360 Awesome. 763 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,920 Well, yeah, I'll definitely include all of that down in the show notes. 764 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:16,800 So definitely check her out. 765 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,400 And yeah, Hannah, thanks again so much for sharing with us. 766 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:20,880 Oh, thanks so much for having me, Johnny. 767 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:21,600 This is a pleasure. 768 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:23,640 Absolutely. 769 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:24,360 All right. 770 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:38,760 And thank you to everybody that tuned in today and we'll catch you on the next episode.