1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:16,240 Well, welcome back everyone to another episode of Faithfully Engaged. Recently, I had a guest 2 00:00:16,240 --> 00:00:22,000 on that we talked about hermeneutics and today we're going to cover something a little bit different 3 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:27,920 called apologetics and we'll get into that more with our guest Scott today. So Scott, why don't 4 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:35,600 you tell the audience a little bit about yourself? Okay, yes, thank you. So just to let you know, 5 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:43,200 I'm an author and speaker. I wrote a book called Got Faith. It's a workbook. It's something that 6 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:49,120 you can go through on your own or a small group study. It's apologetic based. It walks a person 7 00:00:49,120 --> 00:01:00,320 through like talking to an atheist or agnostic to how you know the Bible is the Word of God, 8 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:07,120 to how do you know who is Jesus and what are his claims and to eventually, 9 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:13,120 what does it mean to be saved? What does it mean to be a Christian? So it kind of covers the whole 10 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:27,360 path of a non-believer to somebody who becomes Christian and I've spoken at various places, 11 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:35,440 including India a couple of times. So it's apologetics is my passion. It's something that I've 12 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:44,400 been diving into ever since my youth. That's pretty much me in a nutshell. 13 00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:53,360 All right, well, let's kind of start there just on apologetics. Now, I'll tell you just my own 14 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:59,280 kind of personal story. The first time I heard that word, I don't know, I was 10 or something like 15 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:05,760 that. Like apologetics. Why are people apologizing? I don't understand. People think first. 16 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:13,280 Yes. So for those that are listening to the show today and have no idea what that means, 17 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:21,840 what is apologetics? What does that word mean? So it's basically defending the Christian faith, 18 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:29,440 well, Christian in this case, but defending your faith, being able to explain the truth, being able to 19 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,680 help somebody understand the Christian faith basically. 20 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:45,360 Yeah. So it's really that kind of that defense there and explaining more of your faith. So 21 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:51,680 tell me just your journey. Like how did you get into apologetics? When did you know it was your 22 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:58,080 passion? Just tell us that story. So I had the privilege of growing up in a Christian home. 23 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:08,480 And some point in my high school years, we went to this conference, well, my church hosted this 24 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:20,400 conference that was on cults. And the speaker was just this fascinating speaker talking all about 25 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:31,200 different cults. And to me, I had never learned much about those. I knew what I believe. I knew what 26 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:37,920 the church taught. I knew what Christians teach, what the Bible teaches. But I knew what the 27 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:45,040 church taught. But it was just fascinating to hear this speaker talk about different cults and what 28 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:53,760 they believe. And it really piqued my interest. And so I started learning about cults. And then 29 00:03:53,760 --> 00:04:04,240 that just grew into other areas of apologetics. And I received a really terrific study Bible. 30 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:18,800 And in the study Bible, it's called the Defender's Study Bible. It has all kinds of apologetics in it 31 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:29,360 and scientific facts in the Bible. And it's written by, the notes are written by Dr. Henry Morris. 32 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:42,480 And that really got me into, well, creation and just a wider area of apologetics. So that's how I 33 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:48,240 got my faith. I mean, that's how I got really interested in apologetics. 34 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:56,320 Now, within that, and especially that last part there, talking about into more of the science 35 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:04,000 aspect, the creation aspect, is that where you kind of, I don't know, find most of your passion, 36 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:09,760 is it more centered in the kind of the creationism side of things? Or is it really just all of 37 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,960 apologetics in general that that's your most passionate about? 38 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:25,600 I would say looking at creation and what the Bible teaches is what I kind of dove into 39 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:38,240 first. But it's grown from that. And I just find it fascinating talking to people that 40 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:49,200 somehow can think there is no God and that we just evolved and all these things came to be 41 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:58,640 by chance with no creator. To me, that's not the side of reason. They think they're the reasonable 42 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:08,640 ones. But when you really look at things and you really take a critical mind to what's being taught 43 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:14,880 and you don't just buy things who applying and sinkered what science books teach us in public 44 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:23,280 schools, you can see, you know what, that doesn't make sense. And when we have scientific laws, 45 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:30,560 you know, like the law of thermodynamics and other scientific laws that say, you know what, 46 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:36,560 this just isn't possible. And like, for example, when Darwin wrote his book, 47 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:46,000 The Origin of Species, he had no concept of how complicated things were as they got smaller. He 48 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:52,240 thought a cell was a very simple, simple, simple thing. He didn't have electron microscopes and 49 00:06:52,240 --> 00:07:02,880 all these different things that reveal the complexity of the DNA structure. And we can see 50 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:13,440 if you really want to look at it scientifically and not just with my not just something that 51 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:22,160 from a brainwash perspective, but from an open mind, you can see, you know, evolution doesn't 52 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:29,280 make sense macro evolution. People say, well, yeah, we can see changes within a species. Okay, 53 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:37,040 yes, there's adaptation, there's micro evolution. But macro evolution, one kind of an animal to 54 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:44,480 another that doesn't exist. It's never happened. It's a fairy tale. It can't happen, you know, 55 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:50,560 genetically. So it's just fascinating to me, those things. 56 00:07:50,560 --> 00:08:00,800 You know, as you're talking about this, especially on the concept of there being no God, I'm 57 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:11,200 by no means an expert on all of human history. But I know enough that this recent rise of kind 58 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:16,960 of what they call the nuns, people that don't believe in anything, there is no God. 59 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:24,080 That's been a very recent phenomenon. Throughout most of history, people have believed in 60 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:30,880 something. It might be a might be a sun god or whatever. But there's been a belief in something. 61 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:38,080 So with this recent rise of atheism, agnosticism, things of that nature, like you said, that's 62 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:45,520 usually tied with, well, we have more reason now, we were more advanced than those that believed in 63 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:56,800 gods and stuff. We don't need that anymore. What do you find is more helpful and I guess more 64 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:03,760 succinctly, how do you answer that? An atheist that says, I don't need there to be a common phrase 65 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:08,880 of the spaghetti monster in the sky, right? I don't need that fairy tale. What's the best 66 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:15,760 answer to an atheist like that? Okay, so the first question I always ask an atheist is, 67 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,840 would you admit that you don't have even 20% of all the knowledge of the universe? 68 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:27,120 And if they're willing to have an honest conversation and not just be flipping, you know, 69 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:33,520 with their answer, then of course they're going to say, no, I nobody has even 20% of all the knowledge 70 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:43,440 of the universe. And then my follow up question would be, okay, so in the greater than 80% of all 71 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:48,960 the knowledge in the universe that you do not have, could there be evidence for a creator, for a god? 72 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:56,800 And again, if they're being honest, then they have to admit, well, yeah, there, 73 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,840 I don't know everything. So there could be enough evidence out there that I don't know 74 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:09,040 for a god. And at that point, they're no longer an atheist, because nobody has the knowledge to say 75 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:14,480 there is no god. If you had all the knowledge of the universe, then you're a god, you know. So 76 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:23,040 I always start with those two questions to get them to admit they don't have enough knowledge 77 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:34,240 to say there is no god. And then we can start talking about the evidence for God. And so 78 00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:42,960 that's, that's, but that's, that's kind of like the icebreaker, you know, that's, that's how I start 79 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:48,640 my conversation is just to get them to admit, yeah, there's things I don't know. There's lots of 80 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:55,120 things I don't know. And so with the evidence, I mean, with what I don't know, there could be 81 00:10:55,120 --> 00:11:05,360 evidence of a god. And then just start getting them to think, you know, nobody looks at a building 82 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:11,680 and wonders if the building had an architect, if the building had people that put it together. 83 00:11:11,680 --> 00:11:18,160 The fact that we're here, the fact that we have a creation means there was a creator. 84 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:31,120 Design and purpose are throughout the universe. We, we have laws that physical laws that if you 85 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:39,040 changed any one of them just slightly, like for example, gravity, the law of gravity, if that 86 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:44,800 was just slightly, slightly different, we couldn't have complex life. The universe wouldn't exist. 87 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:54,640 And to think that we have all these fine tune laws to give us life without a person without a 88 00:11:54,640 --> 00:12:00,080 designer doesn't, you know, it's that's, that's not logical. 89 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:10,240 I love how in the beginning of your response there is, is to ask questions. I think that's 90 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:18,480 something that in general as Christians, sometimes we're so like, we tend to be really 91 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:24,320 defensive and just want to like, kind of engage back and don't get me wrong, and engaging in 92 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:30,320 these conversations is important. But we don't have to convince them of everything right there 93 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:37,120 from the get go. Let's ask questions. Let's, let's for one, see if we're willing to have a legitimate 94 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:43,120 discussion. That's why I love what you said there of 20%. If they said, yeah, I know everything, 95 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:50,640 it doesn't matter what you tell them. Exactly. So that question, one of the things that 96 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:56,080 it does is get them to, it is for you to find out if they're willing to have an honest conversation. 97 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:04,640 Because if they just give you a flippant response, why bother, you know, just move on to waste your time. 98 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:14,800 I've experienced something similar. I haven't done a ton of debates, not formal debates on 99 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:22,800 kind of pro life type of situations about abortion. But that's one thing I try to do from the get go 100 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:32,160 is have a kind of just look at the logics of it. And the first thing that goes into is like, well, 101 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:38,160 what about the exceptions of rape and incest? That's like immediate that almost always comes up. 102 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:43,360 And in that discussion, even though I still have quite a few strong opinions on those, 103 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:49,920 for the sake of argument, fine, I'll give you those. Now what? Now where do we draw the line? 104 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:56,880 And inevitably, almost 90 plus percent of the time, that really wasn't the issue. It wasn't 105 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:04,400 rape and incest. That's just kind of that easy way to get out of it. But by engaging in that, 106 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:11,120 by giving them that, I've kind of trapped them a little bit, they don't have that easy out anymore. 107 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:16,720 And that's what I like about you there, too, is we don't have those real simple 108 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,960 spaghetti monster in the sky, those type of frivolous things. That's just not helpful. Let's 109 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:29,600 weed out some of these worthless conversations and let's actually get into this. So I love 110 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:37,840 starting off with the question. That's a fantastic idea. As you go deeper into this, 111 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:45,520 I know something that happens with people in general, whether they're an atheist or 112 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:55,040 just maybe even they would consider themselves a Christian, maybe a name only. The question comes 113 00:14:55,040 --> 00:15:03,600 down to why the Bible, why does the Bible matter? Why would you believe that over the Quran or 114 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:09,040 whatever other type of scripture? So for somebody to ask that, or if you're approaching that question, 115 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:14,880 how do you get into the authoritative nature of the Bible with someone? 116 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:23,600 Okay, so great question. And there's plenty to dig into there. Everything from 117 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:33,760 the history that's written in the Bible that we now can confirm to prophecies. 118 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,040 I mean, Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies. How many do you want them to fulfill? 119 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:46,000 These are prophecies that were written hundreds of years before his birth, his earthly birth. 120 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:59,760 So, and then you have, I don't know, things like, well, how do you know Jesus was who he said he was? 121 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,760 Well, he rose again from the dead. Well, how do you know he rose again from the dead? Well, 122 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:09,360 look at the changed lives of the apostles. And I think that's really where we get into things 123 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:16,400 that you can't argue. Like, you can't argue in somebody's testimony. If you want to 124 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:22,240 share what God did with your life, that's a great thing to do, because nobody can argue against that. 125 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:28,480 You know, you really did experience those things. Well, the apostles really did have changed lives. 126 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:34,960 I mean, you look at, you know, one of the arguments that Jesus didn't rise from the dead is his 127 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:43,120 disciples stole the body. Okay, so these disciples that were so afraid, they locked themselves in 128 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:49,840 the room, one of them denied knowing Jesus, you know, multiple times as he was kind of following 129 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:57,680 from a distance after Jesus was arrested. And you, so you have these people that locked themselves 130 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:06,000 in a room and are literally in hiding. And you want to tell me that they went to the tomb, 131 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:13,360 overpowered the Roman soldiers, rolled the two to three tons boulder away, and stole the body. 132 00:17:13,360 --> 00:17:21,040 And then knowing that they are lying about this in their writings of the New Testament, 133 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:26,800 they, they went through all of this torture and even death for all of them, except for 134 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:36,080 one that we know of, over a lie. No, nobody, nobody allows themselves to be tortured and killed 135 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:44,320 for what they know to be a lie. You know, just doesn't happen. So those are, those are the things 136 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:53,920 that I, I like to discuss. I really like all sorts of those examples. And I can't come up with 137 00:17:53,920 --> 00:18:00,480 come up with the specifics on this, but I've heard pastor, somebody talking about just the 138 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:08,160 overwhelmingly amount of evidence that we have that, like, the Bible was written by who it was 139 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:14,480 written by all the manuscripts that we have. And how if you don't believe that the Bible, 140 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:21,120 whether we believe that it was, that it was God's holy word or not, that it was written, 141 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:25,680 it was actually written this way by these people that had these thoughts, then you couldn't believe 142 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:32,880 any ancient literature, because we have way more evidence about the scriptures manuscripts than 143 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:39,200 anything else in existence. So I think that's an extra kind of protective factor there over. 144 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:46,640 Okay, we, you still don't necessarily have to believe all those words, but there's a lot of 145 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:52,400 evidence here and just to dismiss it, and especially those claims of, yeah, they rolled his body away 146 00:18:52,400 --> 00:19:00,560 or whatever. There's, there's no evidence of that, that you can, that's just somebody trying to explain 147 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:06,960 something. Yeah, so that there's faith statements set all over the place. It's just where people are 148 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:16,080 placing that faith in. Absolutely. This next question is something that I have been pondering 149 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:23,040 a little bit. I've actually am in the middle of reading a book I've had recommended a long time, 150 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:30,960 but just getting around to reading it. It's The Reason for God by Tim Keller. And it's a, 151 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:37,120 one of the chapters is about classic question of how can a loving God send people to hell? 152 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:43,120 How can that happen? So I'm sure that's a question that you've received often. How generally do you 153 00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:53,120 answer that when you receive that question? Okay, so what people don't understand is God's perfection. 154 00:19:55,040 --> 00:20:03,840 Yes, he is a loving God, but he is also a just God. And his standard is, is perfection. He doesn't 155 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:13,520 send anybody to hell. We send ourselves because we do not meet his standard of perfection. You know, 156 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:27,920 if there was a mass murder on trial and you know, somebody, he was a serial killer, 157 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:33,040 and they, they finally found him after he killed all these people and now he's on trial. And it's 158 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:39,600 so obvious that he's guilty. And the judge says, well, because I'm a loving judge, I'm just going 159 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:46,320 to give you a slap on the wrist and, and make you pay this $500 fine for, you know, whatever, 160 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:53,040 something stupid. Everybody would be so upset. They're like, there's no justice. Come on, this 161 00:20:53,040 --> 00:21:05,200 isn't right. Well, you know, God, God can't just allow evil or and sin into his perfect heaven. 162 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:12,800 So we send ourselves to hell by not following and meeting God's standard. 163 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:21,600 This has been something that I struggled with. I know when I was younger, 164 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:29,520 like a, I grew up in church. I was very, very gracious to be able to 165 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:36,080 grow up in a Christian family was saved at a young age about six years old. And I understood all the 166 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:42,240 concepts of we're sinners and Christ died first since he rose from the dead. I had all that. 167 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:48,400 But I really did struggle with not so much of just the hell part, but the, the wrath part. 168 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:55,360 That didn't make sense to me. How you're loving, but how do you have wrath? And what you just explained 169 00:21:55,360 --> 00:22:04,240 there of the judge, that, that's a wonderful explanation. When it really came to make more 170 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:12,480 sense in my mind was when I started dating my wife. We weren't even married at the time yet. But 171 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,920 I hadn't had a relationship like that. We might have been engaged at this level and nothing had 172 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:26,000 happened. But I just remember that feeling of like, if somebody was to hurt her, I'm going to be 173 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:34,480 really mad. Like there's going, I, I can't separate that wrath side of it. And it's not because I don't 174 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:41,600 love her. It's because I love her that it goes hand in hand. And I love what you said there of 175 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:50,720 that just, that justice and that judge part. God is loving. He hates sin. He absolutely does. 176 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:59,200 And there is judgment there. And like you said, it's not him just appeasing his wrath by throwing 177 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:04,640 us in there. We have chosen that through our sinful beings, through our all sinful beings. And 178 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,920 we kind of flip it on its head in Christianity that it's the bad part isn't that he's, that 179 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:15,040 people are sitting in hell. The crazy thing is that he offers salvation. We don't deserve that. 180 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:21,040 That's, that's the good news. Exactly. And people usually identify themselves as a good person. 181 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:27,040 You know, if you ask somebody, you think you're a good person. Yeah, you know, I haven't killed 182 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:34,400 anybody. I'm a good person. I haven't robbed a bank. You know, I didn't rape anybody, whatever. But 183 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:42,640 if you start asking them about the 10 commandments, they can convict themselves. In other words, 184 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:49,280 ask, have you ever told a lie? And they'll usually say, well, of course I told a lie. I'm human, 185 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:56,320 but so what? Who has it? Okay, but God says, do not lie. And you've broken one of his 10 186 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:01,120 commandments right there. What about, have you ever stolen something, even something small, a pencil? 187 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:07,920 Yeah, but, but everybody has, okay, but God says, do not steal. And, you know, if you've, if you 188 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:16,080 told a lie, what does that make you? Okay, I'm, I'm a liar. If you're a liar, even something small, 189 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:24,320 what does that make you? It makes you a thief, right? So if you start looking at what God's 190 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:30,400 standard is and realizing you have to be perfect to enter heaven, you should understand, okay, then 191 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:37,440 we don't have, we don't, there's, there's no way we can make it into heaven, right? Because there's 192 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:49,520 no way any of us have lived up to that standard until, like you said, God provided the way. 193 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:58,400 He provided salvation through his son. Absolutely. Yeah, I've heard some people present, it's like, 194 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:03,840 oh, you said that that's the gospel, that's the good news, that's not good news. That sounds terrible. 195 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:11,440 Because they're looking at it in that lens, I'm a good person. That's, that's something of why, 196 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:18,640 for Christians, obviously, we play, play a, pay a lot of attention to the New Testament for good 197 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:25,440 reason. You know, Jesus, that's the good news. We need to really emphasize that. But sometimes in 198 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:33,200 Christianity, we lose the Old Testament, we forget about the, the Tinkham Amamut things of that nature. 199 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:39,520 And that gives the New Testament all the weight to it. Because that shows we, we can't do this on 200 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:47,920 our own. But Israel, they tried it, they failed. Right. But Jesus provides this way. Yes. So yeah, 201 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:54,720 we need to not lose that Old Testament. It is very, very important to go alongside the New 202 00:25:54,720 --> 00:26:05,920 Covenant as well. Absolutely. This next question kind of goes in hand of the, you know, sending 203 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:13,040 people to hell or whatever. Okay, if God is so good, he's all powerful, he's perfect, 204 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:19,120 then why is there even evil? Why is there sin here at all? If he's so good and perfect, 205 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:25,840 can he just make a good and perfect world? Okay, I love this question. I don't know if you ever 206 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:34,640 saw the movie Ella Enchanted. So for, for those who have not seen Ella Enchanted, it's a, 207 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:42,160 you know, it's a fairy tale movie. There's this, this, this fairy godmother that comes into the 208 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:49,120 scene at the very beginning of the movie, and she blesses or curse, however you want to look at it, 209 00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:58,000 this baby, so that it always will obey on command. In other words, you ask this child to do something, 210 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:04,720 they don't have an option not to do it. They just do it. Well, God could have made us that way. 211 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:13,440 But that is not love. He made us with the ability to choose him, to love him. We have chosen not 212 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:25,280 to love him, which is why there is evil. We, we have evil in this world, because we have done 213 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:35,280 everything except choose God. And because God gave us the freedom of choice, he allowed for that 214 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:47,280 possibility of evil. Yeah. And when you look at your, your own lives here, especially anyone 215 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:56,560 listening that has, has kids, it means so much when, like I have a couple little ones right now, 216 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:02,960 and another one that's on the way, but when my kids, the first time they told me, I love you, 217 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:10,400 my goodness, that is, that's incredible. What an incredible moment to hear that. And it means so 218 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:19,040 much because they chose to say it. It doesn't mean as much when I forced them just say, I, I love, 219 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:25,280 love you, you, like that means that's nice. That's nice if they can repeat that. But they don't know 220 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:32,480 what they're saying exactly. When they say it on their own, that is incredible. It just means so 221 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:39,520 much. And how you lay that out makes so much sense that that would be the equivalent of making us 222 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:45,520 robots. And that's exactly God did not make mind them robots. He wanted the relationship. 223 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:57,280 We're not his computer. Yeah. For him to program to do whatever his bidding is. Yeah. So he, it's 224 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:04,880 all about the relationship. It's all about us making that decision. Otherwise, there's no love 225 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:12,560 either. Why is there evil? Well, you want a world without love? There's no, you know, 226 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:20,880 you turn that question on its head. Why is there love? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's love because we 227 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,880 have the freedom of choice. There's evil because we have the freedom of choice. 228 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,760 Yeah. No, I think that's, that's really important again to flip some of these things on its head 229 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:39,440 and to ask that. Yeah, we, there's evil. Sure. And, and that's something in my kind of in my day 230 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:46,880 job of talking to some of my clients that the problems they come into if they're sinking counseling 231 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:52,480 from me, they're legitimate. They're legitimate problems. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to 232 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:58,480 downgrade them. But so often they're so focused on those problems that they miss the good things. 233 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:03,760 And that's something I challenge them to do. Like, why do you grateful for? Yeah, you're, 234 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:09,360 you're dealing with grieving this loss or whatever. But what do you have in your life? And that doesn't 235 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:16,400 take it all away. Recognizing that we have a God of love or that we have the ability to love on 236 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:22,560 earth. That doesn't take away the evil. But it gives it a whole lot more context, gives it, 237 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:27,760 gives that love a whole lot more meaning, instead of solely just focusing on everything going 238 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:34,240 wrong. We need to see the beauty and the creation as well. Absolutely. 239 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:44,080 This next question, my every once in a while, I'll reference my wife on here. And there's 240 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:49,440 times she'll catch up on episodes and times she doesn't. So sometimes I'll tell my guests 241 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:56,240 not to mention things to my to my wife off off screen there if I get on to her something. 242 00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:03,280 But this is a question for my wife that she is really passionate about. She she just really likes 243 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:12,960 to talk about this issue. And that is about the the age of the earth. The kind of the typical 244 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:19,360 mind view or worldview is earth is millions, billions, whatever years old that the dinosaurs 245 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:26,400 were here. A whole long time ago. And then we came, I don't know how old they say humans have been 246 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:32,400 here a few tens of 1000 years. I don't I don't remember millions. Okay, well, there you go. 247 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:40,080 Anyways, is that true? And if it's not true, why is that not true? Okay, very good question. 248 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:47,120 Let me give you an analogy to answer this question to start off my answer. Let's say 249 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:52,880 you're a scuba diver, and you find this sunken ship, and it has a treasure chest inside of it. 250 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,000 You bring up the treasure chest, you open it up, and you see all these different coins. 251 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:08,320 And the coins are dated, let's say you find a coin dated 1745, and another coin dated 1756. 252 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:21,360 And, you know, you find these these different dates, whatever. And you want to determine when did the 253 00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:27,520 ship sink? Well, are you going to look at the oldest coin, or are you going to look at the newest coin? 254 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:34,000 You're going to look at the newest coin, because obviously the ship did not sink before that 255 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:40,960 ship sink. So you could have a coin dated 1600 in that chest, it doesn't matter. You could have 256 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:47,520 signs of age, it doesn't matter. What are the limiting factors? The limiting factor, the newest coin, 257 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:57,280 let's say if it's 1784, whatever. You know the ship did not sink before 1784, or it's not going to 258 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:04,000 have a 1784 coin in it. It doesn't matter if you have coins from the 1600s, that's irrelevant. 259 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:14,480 You want to know when the ship sank? Okay, probably on or after that newest coin. So we have 260 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:27,440 limiting factors that limit the Earth's age. For example, the ocean is approximately 3.5% salt, 261 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:37,600 the oceans. Well, why are they salty? Why are the why is the ocean salt water? The oceans are salt 262 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:45,680 water because of our water cycle. Water evaporates from the oceans, gets blown over land, it rains on 263 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:54,640 the land, the rivers run off the land into the ocean containing minerals and whatnot, and it's 264 00:33:54,640 --> 00:34:02,320 the water cycle that makes the ocean salty. It's the runoff from the land with all the minerals 265 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:09,680 that make the ocean salty. So the oceans are an irreversible process of getting saltier, 266 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:25,120 and you can measure that. So the question is why are the oceans 3.5% salt? Well, if you say 267 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:33,200 that's measurable, the rate that they're getting salty is measurable, okay, so we can determine that 268 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:40,880 the oceans have only been getting salty for the last 5,000 years. The oceans can go from freshwater 269 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:49,040 to saltwater at the current level in just 5,000 years. So you cannot possibly have oceans that 270 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:55,360 are millions of years old, otherwise they would all be like the Dead Sea and worse. Nothing would 271 00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:01,600 be living in them. They would be too salty. So that is an incredible limiting factor to the age of 272 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:11,360 the earth. So you asked the question, how old do I think the earth is? It's somewhere around 6000 273 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:23,360 years. Biblically speaking, we can see human history. We have great recordings of how long people 274 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:34,480 lived. The Jews were absolutely fantastic at keeping track of this stuff. So because of those 275 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:44,960 records, we can guess somewhere around 6000 years. But even scientifically, if you really want to look 276 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:51,040 at the true science, the things that are limiting factors like the ocean salt level, 277 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:56,400 you know it just doesn't make sense to say that the earth is millions of years old. 278 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:06,960 I live here in Hawaii and we are taught that the Hawaiian islands are several million years old. 279 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,120 None of the islands have active volcano activity except for the Big Island. 280 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:24,000 All the others, they say, have been done, be informed for millions of years. Well, again, 281 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:32,640 we can see that cannot be true because of the rate of erosion. Well, the rate of erosion is just 282 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:37,920 under half inch a year. All of our islands except for the Big Island, because it's still growing, 283 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:45,520 would be underwater in just one million years because of the rate of erosion. I've seen a storm 284 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:52,160 completely wipe out a beach and us have to, us meaning people, having to rebuild the beach 285 00:36:52,160 --> 00:37:01,200 for people to enjoy because it was wiped out in one storm. So the age that they give things, 286 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:06,880 they use circular reasoning a lot of times. They'll say the fossils date the rocks, 287 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:12,880 but the rocks date the fossils more accurately. What? You're hurting my head with that circular 288 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:21,600 reasoning. If you find a fossil and you want it dated, the people doing the dating, 289 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:26,320 will not give you a date until you tell them what layer you found it in. 290 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:41,600 People look at the Grand Canyon and they think, oh, let's look at all these different layers. 291 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:49,600 I don't know if you've done any research into the Mount St. Helens explosion back in the early 80s, 292 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:59,280 but that was God's gift to creation science because we saw a miniature Grand Canyon get 293 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:08,960 created with all the same layers of the Grand Canyon and ours because of the flood that occurred. 294 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:22,000 Well, the explosion created a dam, a natural dam, and then a subsequent explosion caused a bunch of 295 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:29,200 water to break through that dam and turn what was a small canyon into a much larger canyon. 296 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:37,680 All this sediment and all these different layers got created and you can see if you look at, oh, 297 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:42,400 these look very similar to the layers we have with the Grand Canyon. We know how long those took to 298 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:52,720 create, ours. You want to tell me the Grand Canyon took millions of years? Well, we now have scientific 299 00:38:52,720 --> 00:39:04,960 evidence that this can be created very quickly. That's really intriguing. I think that's neat to 300 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:12,800 have those different limiting factors like that to be able to look at that in different areas 301 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:21,360 instead of just salt, just erosion or whatever. That sounds really intriguing with that. That 302 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:29,520 leads me into my last bigger question here of most of the audience, although not all, would come from 303 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:35,680 a Christian type of perspective or at least appreciative of a Christian worldview. 304 00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:42,640 For those that are listening, like, wow, this is really interesting. I want to know more and maybe 305 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:51,280 I want to pursue some apologetics on my own. What advice would you give them to be able to get started on this? 306 00:39:51,280 --> 00:40:02,160 Good question. I would look at organizations that I've done a lot of research with. 307 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:11,280 Organizations like Answers in Genesis, Creation Today, those are two outstanding organizations 308 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:20,560 that have a lot of information on this. I mentioned Dr. Henry Morris. He wrote the 309 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:25,920 Defender Study Bible. He's kind of the godfather of modern creation science. 310 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:34,800 Any of his books would be excellent books to look at. Of course, I would love it if you 311 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:46,480 bought and read my book, Got Faith. By the way, it's for sale on Amazon. My first name is actually 312 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:55,440 Kenneth. My name as an author is Kay Scott Wells. If you wanted to find me on Amazon, it's the letter 313 00:40:55,440 --> 00:41:02,320 Kay and then Scott Wells. The book title is Got Faith. There's a lot of great resources out there. 314 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:14,880 I would start with those. I think you can get just a wealth of information from them. 315 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:27,040 Great. I will include the link to Scott's book down in the show notes so you guys can check it out. 316 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:36,240 For anybody else that is interested in catching up with you on social media or just in general, 317 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:38,880 how can they be in contact with you? 318 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:46,720 Probably the best way would be to send me an email. I don't have a bunch of staff that's 319 00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:53,360 reading my emails. I do it myself. You can email Scott at defendingthetruth.net. 320 00:41:53,360 --> 00:42:02,320 Perfect. I'll include that down in the show notes too. If you have any questions for him, 321 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:08,080 I'm sure those of you that are just really interested in this side of things because I know a lot 322 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:18,800 that go to church, they might really enjoy doing theology studies and things like that, 323 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:27,440 which are great. I know that ties into this. Apologetics is its own discipline. 324 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,600 I just find it fascinating. I'm sure others do too. 325 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:40,400 Great. Well, Scott, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on and to hear some more of these 326 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:47,760 kind of apologetic viewpoints. I hope everyone listening has learned something. 327 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:53,440 Like I said, I encourage everyone to reach out to them. Scott, any parting words before we head 328 00:42:53,440 --> 00:43:02,960 out today? Any parting words. I just want to say trust Christ. The Bible is the truth. 329 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:10,880 Christ is who he claimed to be. He did live a perfect life. He died for our sins, 330 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:18,320 rose again from the dead. All we have to do to know that we have salvation is to change our minds, 331 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:29,200 repent about our sin, and trust in Christ. We trust in Christ and we have salvation. 332 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:36,000 That's my desire, is that people trust in Christ and are saved. 333 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:44,480 Amen to that for sure. Thanks again, Scott, for joining me today, having this fantastic 334 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:52,400 discussion. I want to say thank you to everybody that tuned in today. We will catch you on the next 335 00:43:52,400 --> 00:44:03,440 episode. Thank you so much.