1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,000
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Faithfully Engaged.

2
00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,760
Today my guest name is Caitlin.

3
00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:22,000
So, Kayla why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?

4
00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,000
Yes, thank you so much for having me, Johnny.

5
00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:26,000
It's great to be here.

6
00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:35,000
I am Caitlin. I live right outside of Greenville, South Carolina with my husband of eight years, Jordan.

7
00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:40,000
And I have a three-year-old son, Taylor, and a six-month-old little girl, Aline.

8
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:50,000
I just published a book in April called What Now? Finding Renewed Life in Christ After Loss.

9
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:58,000
And it's my story of a traumatic loss I experienced at age eight.

10
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:06,000
The loss of four family, six family members, four siblings, and also my parents in a car accident.

11
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,000
And I can get more into that.

12
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:17,000
But yeah, I wrote this book just to share my story of healing and how God has just completely redeemed my story and my life

13
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:27,000
and brought me to where I am now. So I want to share it just to help others who may also be going through something difficult of their own.

14
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:42,000
Yes, well, thanks so much for being on and I'm excited to talk about this just because, you know, grief going through a traumatic event like that is something that I don't think the church always does a great job of talking about.

15
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:47,000
We might say, I'll pray for you. And then that's just kind of the way we end there.

16
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,000
And I think having more discussion on this is really important.

17
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:59,000
So kind of just go into your story a little bit. How old were you when this happened?

18
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:06,000
And yeah, just kind of walk the audience a little bit of what was the precipice of the story.

19
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:16,000
Yeah, so I was born into a I'll give you a little context of my childhood because that is important to know about my story.

20
00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:23,000
First, and then I'll share about the loss, but I was born into a family of six kids. I was the second to youngest.

21
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:36,000
And my dad was in the Christian camp field, worked for Young Life camps, and then he was working at the Billy Graham Training Center in Asheville, North Carolina.

22
00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:44,000
Later on. And so my mom homeschooled all of us. We were very tight knit family just did everything together.

23
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:50,000
We had all of our meals together every night. We spent just tons and tons of time together.

24
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:59,000
And the most important thing, not just what we did together, but my parents were believers and they really walked the walk.

25
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:19,000
They showed us that example as kids. Like, I remember really early years of my of my childhood, just noticing their intentionality to lead family devotionals and read the Bible with us at night.

26
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:35,000
Pray the way they just like loved each other and little things like they would tell us they were sorry and ask for forgiveness when they knew they had messed up or sinned against us.

27
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:49,000
And every time they disciplined us or spanked us, they would explain like how the reason why they're disciplining us and how God like disciplines us and how he loves us.

28
00:03:49,000 --> 00:04:04,000
And so that's like what they were modeling. And so just very intentional parenting and just the way they like center their whole life was around what they believed and about who God was and the things that were important.

29
00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:18,000
They really had their priorities in line. And so I was just so grateful to be able to witness that as a child and just kind of see how that played out in their parenting and in their marriage.

30
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:32,000
So when I was eight years old, one of the cool things about them too is that they often had foreign exchange students or like refugee people into our home to live with us.

31
00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:45,000
So on top of having six kids at home, they were open just an open door to allowing any other people who needed a place to stay for a time being just to come stay with us.

32
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:57,000
And so the summer of 2000, we had a girl who was here from Belarus through a relief program.

33
00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:05,000
She was one of about 600 other students who were all spread across the US staying with different families.

34
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:16,000
It was a Christian program. So while they were here getting like medical attention and help, they would get, they would learn about the goal was for them to learn about the gospel and learn about Jesus.

35
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:24,000
And so we had a girl staying with us and we found out that she had never been to the beach before.

36
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:29,000
So my parents were going to take her to the beach for the first time.

37
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:36,000
And so we all loaded up in the car and she actually brought a friend with her as well on that trip.

38
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:46,000
So there were 10 of us in the car. It was my parents, six kids and the two girls who were staying with us that summer.

39
00:05:46,000 --> 00:06:08,000
So we were on our way to the beach from Asheville, North Carolina to the coast of South Carolina and we were hit by a cargo van or cargo truck who blew a tire and lost control of the steering and happened to cross over the grassy median in between the two highways.

40
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:23,000
And our car was in his path. And so we, that accident took the lives of my parents and four of my siblings and one of the girls who was also staying with us.

41
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:37,000
So, and also the driver of the truck. So myself, my older brother, Abel, and one of the other girls who was here on the relief program were the only survivors of the accident.

42
00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:51,000
That was in 2000. So many years ago, I was eight years old at the time. And I was asleep when the accident happened.

43
00:06:51,000 --> 00:07:05,000
So I woke up in the hospital. I was put into a medical induced coma and then woke up a few days later in the hospital and heard the news of what happened.

44
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:21,000
And when you're awoken, obviously incredibly confused, I would imagine, what's going through your head? Like how does a child process through that in that moment?

45
00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:37,000
Yeah, initially, I just didn't believe it was real. I, in that moment, I was kind of drifted in and out of sleep, didn't really understand where I was. I had never been in the hospital before, you know, just really confused.

46
00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:55,000
And I really thought I was dreaming or having a nightmare really. And it's honestly for months after, I still thought I was just in a really long nightmare that I was going to wake up from eventually.

47
00:07:55,000 --> 00:08:02,000
I just, I was in complete shock and just didn't believe any of it was actually true.

48
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:18,000
Yeah. And I would be surprised to think really adults would do too much better, but especially for a child and just all this confusion going on and for months afterwards, he said it's a bad dream.

49
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:26,000
It's not really real. Incredibly difficult for those next few months.

50
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:41,000
What happened to, like, not immediately after in the hospital, but when you are able to go home, like, what was living arrangements like? Like, how, what did life look like after that?

51
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:53,000
My brother and I went to live with our aunt and uncle. My uncle was my mom's brother. And we moved from Asheville, North Carolina to Greenville, South Carolina.

52
00:08:53,000 --> 00:09:07,000
So he was eight years older. He was 16 at the time of the accident. And we, my aunt and uncle had two daughters of their own. So we moved in with them, gained two new sisters and new parents.

53
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:24,000
So those early years, everything in my life was complete upheaval. Everything that I knew it was like my whole life before was gone.

54
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:38,000
And I had to start over really with a whole new life. And so new family, new home, started school for the first time, started going to a new church, had to make new friends.

55
00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:55,000
You know, even there were new pets in the home and new, just a new lifestyle, new stores that I went shopping at, new, just new, new different surroundings and different lifestyle there.

56
00:09:55,000 --> 00:10:12,000
But so during those early years, the most important part of my story is that I accepted Christ into my heart when I was six years old, through the example of my parents and my older siblings had made that decision.

57
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:30,000
And so it was just kind of when we got to a certain age, everybody at different ages, but my parents would explain what that meant and how to read the Bible and what like what that decision was and that it was a big, big important decision to make.

58
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:51,000
So when I was six years old, I made that decision and immediately started reading the Bible, learning about the Bible, just really learning the basics of right and wrong and to apologize when I, you know, send or lie or dishonor my parents, things like that when you're little.

59
00:10:51,000 --> 00:11:07,000
And so I began the seed was planted at six years old, I feel like I began just knowing and began understanding and learning the basics of what it meant to live your life for Jesus and who God even was.

60
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:22,000
And so then when the accident happened two years later, I really had that foundation that had started to grow for two years of faith.

61
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:45,000
And it's so unbelievable when I look back because at that early age of eight, I just depended on God so much in those months and years to follow in a way that I can't even like explain or verbalize that well now.

62
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:58,000
But it was just, he was there for me and I knew he was there and it was, although everything else had changed and nothing looked different around me.

63
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,000
I knew God was the same.

64
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,000
I knew that he hadn't changed or hadn't gone anywhere.

65
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:19,000
And he wasn't, he didn't abandon me and he wasn't leaving me. And so he was really the only thing in my life that was constant that never changed.

66
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:42,000
And I'm so thankful and just amazed at how he was showed up in all different ways for me. Like when I didn't want to cry in front of other people, I knew I could cry to God and that he was there and that he would hear me and listen to me.

67
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:57,000
And, you know, there was a few times where I almost tangibly felt like a embrace of his arms wrapped around me and that just so, so comforted.

68
00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:15,000
So, it was just like such a childlike faith that I didn't know that much about God. I didn't know theology or didn't have any answers, but I knew that he was real and that he was with me and that's all I knew.

69
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:30,000
And just clinging to that really is what saved me and how I got through those early years.

70
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:41,000
I think that's just for one an incredible testimony of goodness. That is, like you said, your life is just completely upside down.

71
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:49,000
Kids that kind of really taking a backseat here for a little bit kids in general, like I have young kids.

72
00:13:49,000 --> 00:14:02,000
And in general, we'll say they don't like structure that I want to stay up late, eat ice cream all day. And they'll say that and to a degree that they want that, but they really don't.

73
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:12,000
And so, like, after I get get done with this interview, actually, we're going to go visit my grandma. And while that's great. And we love it.

74
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:23,000
It's out of their routine. And by that end of that weekend, we're kind of ready to get back home because then we get back on that sleeping routine and there's that consistency there's that schedule.

75
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:36,000
Kids actually do thrive in that they enjoy knowing what to expect and kind of like you're talking about with God, he's unchanging kids like that structure, even though they may complain about it, they really do need it and thrive in it.

76
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:52,000
And for you, you didn't just had to have a weekend at grandmals where you stayed up late. This was completely life altering things that are incredibly difficult for an adult to experience, much less a child.

77
00:14:52,000 --> 00:15:01,000
That's growing up and it's not only growing up but is dependent on these people that are that are gone that they're they're dead and not coming back.

78
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:11,000
That is some rough, rough stuff. So for you to have that faith to know that yeah, my life circumstances here on earth. Yeah, they're changed.

79
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:29,000
And then they're never going to be the same again. But you Lord, you are the same. You don't change what what a what a powerful testimony for for a young child or for anybody to have that to have confidence that even though what's around me right now is not the same God you are.

80
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:42,000
I would imagine that in those years afterwards that your faith probably, like you said, saved you but was also probably strengthened through that because of the trials you went through.

81
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,000
Yeah, yeah.

82
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:49,000
Exactly. Yeah, and I think it definitely was.

83
00:15:49,000 --> 00:16:08,000
I throughout the years since then, you know, like everyone's faith journey, it's been ups and downs and times of feeling distant and closer but I've always been able just to remember back to those days and kind of point back to his faithfulness throughout the years.

84
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:22,000
And no matter what else I go through or what else I might experience. He, because of the relationship that he gave me and just the ways that he showed himself there for me.

85
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:38,000
And really, that has carried on throughout the years so that I've always whenever I have felt distant or angry or, you know, new troubles new things have come.

86
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:48,000
I just remember his faithfulness in those early years and that has just, it's been so just my strength, really.

87
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,000
Yeah.

88
00:16:49,000 --> 00:17:18,000
And I can just remember like he gave me such encouragement that he shares such a special place or a special piece of him and his character with those who are hurting and grieving and so that lesson is something that I'm just so thankful for, you know, I think

89
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:37,000
I've really just been recently learning a lot about how to how grief is good and how to feel that and to let ourselves feel that and to, you know, go to those hard places and to allow it because I think so much of our culture.

90
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:55,000
You know, it doesn't feel good to be sad. So we want to just be happy and do things that make us feel good and be happy and like fix ourselves, you know, all the time and just go through life that way we just kind of masking our hurt and our pain and our grief and so.

91
00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:20,000
But that valuable lesson that he showed me then has stuck with me all this time that, you know, it was through the hurt and through the grief and through going to him and crying out to him and getting angry and you know asking him like, I'm confused what's going on God like why why would you take them

92
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:44,000
I have to go through this like just showing all the hurt and the pain and the grief and just laying it all out there. It wasn't fun and it's never fun but I'm thankful for the closeness that I felt and just the reality of like accepting those things that that's life, you know that

93
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:57,000
was like a part of life and I shouldn't just keep it in because for so long I really did I kept it in and I to other people but to God.

94
00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:15,000
He was always there and always was able to show that to him and so I don't know if that makes any sense but that's really like it's really helped me a lot to this day just knowing that I can at any point share all of it with him even if I don't sometimes have that community of support or those people

95
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:34,000
physically to talk with which is super important to but he longs for us to go to him and he longs for us to be he wants to be that person for us to show our grief to and he can hold it and carry it and

96
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:53,000
so we can have that kind of grief with us as well. You know what what you just brought up there I've actually addressed with several different clients that I've worked with over the years because grief is not there's no sugarcoating that that's not fun.

97
00:19:53,000 --> 00:20:08,000
Or to have some type of illness or lose a job whatever it may be. That's not fun and nobody feels happy going through that green process it's difficult.

98
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:26,000
However, when we're bringing in the faith component especially if I just say well okay I'm a Christian so we're supposed to be joyful right so I can't feel sad or anything I just need to be I need to be happy all the time because I'm a Christian.

99
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:42,000
So, first off, yeah, we do need to be joyful. I think that's that's important. But part of my response back to that is God made us, if we believe that that we were designed for a certain reason.

100
00:20:42,000 --> 00:21:01,000
He also designed us to have these emotions, and these emotions are not meant to just be, you know, ignored act like they don't matter. Now we don't necessarily want them to control us, but we do have them and we need to acknowledge them because that's part of our design.

101
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:13,000
And you bring out an incredibly important piece there that it's not just about throwing my anger out at everybody or taking it out on people or are just crying for the sake of crying.

102
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:24,000
But who are we going to with those emotions. God tells us to cast our anxieties on to him. So sometimes when I keep it all in.

103
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:33,000
This is a tough thing. When I keep it all in, it may not be my intention, but I'm essentially communicating to God that he can't handle this.

104
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:48,000
I can't let him deal with this grief that I'm dealing with. That's not true. And I love the fact that that even at that young age, you were able to do that to go to him to not mask your feelings.

105
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:57,000
It's like, God, I'm angry. I'm confused. I'm sad. I don't like this. But you trusted him to handle that.

106
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:06,000
At any point in your journey, and I'm not expecting that you were perfect throughout it all. I'm sure there are many struggles.

107
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:17,000
But did you feel your faith at any point really waver or throughout it all? Did you feel like your faith kept strong throughout it?

108
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:35,000
It did waver for sure. So those early years, God showed me such just kindness and not... I think because I was so young, I really didn't have the...

109
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:51,000
And just my personality as well. I really didn't... I wasn't like it didn't have behavioral problems, wasn't super angry, or like that kind of kid. I was very easygoing and timid, quiet kind of personality.

110
00:22:51,000 --> 00:23:09,000
And so I really... those early years, I didn't show any anger or rebellion, you know, things like that. But in doing so, I really kept it in around other people.

111
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:22,000
So because of my personality and my nature, I didn't really want to ruffle any feathers or stir the pot in any way around... I hated conflict.

112
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:43,000
So my coping mechanism was to just keep the peace as much as I can and internally to, like, not show that I was upset, not show that I needed...

113
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:53,000
Not show that I was super sad or angry or anything like that to other people. So I really just did whatever I had to do to make it through.

114
00:23:53,000 --> 00:24:14,000
I really kept it all in and I was... yeah, just a peacemaker, like I said. So that looked like going through life the best I could, like any other kid. So, you know, doing well in school, going to school.

115
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:33,000
I played sports, I made friends, and actually really great friends that I still have to this day, which is so amazing. But I just... from the outside, I really lived like a... I looked like any other kid, like a normal middle school, high school girl, went to church, involved in youth group.

116
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:51,000
I was appearing on the outside like nothing had ever happened, that I didn't actually go through such a traumatic loss. And so that really continued, yeah, for all of middle school and high school and most of college as well.

117
00:24:51,000 --> 00:25:15,000
But then, like grief does, no matter what age you are, you know, it will stay with you until you... until it has to come out. And so... and it will eventually. And so for me, that was in about halfway through college and then continuing on after college as well.

118
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:34,000
I just came to a point where it was kind of like a crossroads and I was like, I knew or I realized that I could continue on the way I was doing, kind of masking it and acting like I was okay and just not going there and not wanting to talk about or process anything.

119
00:25:34,000 --> 00:26:01,000
Or... but that was making me pretty miserable. Or I could face it and get real and get the help that I needed to go through life. And I knew that it would be really hard and I didn't want to, but it was kind of like that was the only way to move forward in life for me because I knew I couldn't stay where I was.

120
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:30,000
And so that came through many different things around me. And I would say, you know, in that period also faith-wise was when I felt like furthest from God of just trying to do things on my own, you know, trying to just keep it all in, control everything like my future, my plans, relationships I was in.

121
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:48,000
And I was just trying to live the way I wanted to live. And, you know, it all came to this kind of crux and I was like this, I felt just pretty miserable and I knew that I had to, something had to change.

122
00:26:48,000 --> 00:27:07,000
So many different things led to that point of wanting to heal. I think it was the more I shared with safe people, like little by little, each step led me to share more.

123
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:36,000
So, you know, up until that point, I hadn't talked about it with anyone, very rarely for years, I just didn't want to go there. But then, you know, I would have like a five minute conversation with my college ministry director about the accident and my family and how I was feeling and like his response of a safe person and a safe place

124
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:54,000
that just empowered me to share more and share with others. And so, I really just had to find those people in that community where I felt encouraged to talk about it.

125
00:27:54,000 --> 00:28:09,000
So, it was hearing other people's stories of my peers, other things that other hard things that people had gone through, and, you know, hearing their stories encouraged me to share mine as well.

126
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:31,000
And so, I was like, college ministers, I found a great church community with a community group, people that I could share with pastors, you know, just little by little mentors, women that I met just all these people started coming into my life that God brought at just the right times, where they would be interested

127
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:53,000
and they would want to know and kind of like pull it out of me. And so, I would say the past 10 years really have just been a journey of healing after, you know, 20 years of, or 15 to 20 years of stuffing it in.

128
00:28:53,000 --> 00:29:19,000
And a part of that was Christian counseling for sure is a huge part of my life. So, I went, I went when I was little, right after the accident for about six sessions, I believe, and saw a play therapist and it just wasn't long enough, you know, it wasn't what I really needed, or to the depth that I really needed.

129
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:43,000
And so, I went again, self admitted, I guess, to counseling once more in college for the first time since I was little. And since then, I've seen many different counselors and each one have been so amazing and just another piece of the healing journey for me where they've, you know,

130
00:29:43,000 --> 00:30:00,000
given me insight to something that I didn't see in myself before, or, you know, they've encouraged me in different places, they've taught me different things, they've pointed me towards God in different areas and so just the community and the support the counselors the

131
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:15,000
mentors, prayer warriors, I could go on and on about just all the different ways that God has given me that healing through him.

132
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:35,000
I think what's neat here in your story is, again, not only were you a child and just your physical body, but also in your faith that you're very kind of green Christian at that point and just had everything just turned upside down.

133
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:55,000
You had that and that was almost like that, that life saver that kept you just a float. And as to be expected, I mean there's a lot of other things that forget all of the rough things you had to go through the trauma you endured, just being being a teenager in general has all sorts

134
00:30:55,000 --> 00:31:12,000
of curves that kids have to go through. So a little bit of that rocky season and there, but that maturation there of your own faith that we know as Christians like yes we do have that personal relationship with God and to be able to trust that he's

135
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:27,000
not just God changing and that he is there for me, but he also made us to have community. There's a reason why we have the church that we're not supposed to do life completely on our own.

136
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:43,000
And it seems like that was that next kind of part of your healing journey was to realize no, like, it's not just me like I can do some things to help myself but I need to lean and trust on some other people and that that's hard.

137
00:31:43,000 --> 00:32:04,000
It's not easy to do and I know you didn't just snap your fingers and start to trust people it was this process. So that that's that's really neat to see that kind of that second wave there of of your healing of allowing other other people in in that journey.

138
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:25,000
Absolutely. I love how you describe that of just it being a process and you know it's so the process looks so different for everyone who's experienced, not just loss but any hard time any big change or any feelings of aloneness things like that of some

139
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:37,000
But what you said reminds me of I just listened to a podcast by

140
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,000
It's called the place we find ourselves.

141
00:32:41,000 --> 00:33:02,000
I don't know if you're familiar with that. I've heard of it. I haven't listened to it. Okay. Well, he's a Christian counselor as well and he is he it's a series on grief that he was doing and he was talking about just how when we do feel alone, like, you know, we're going through something.

142
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:21,000
We feel like we're the only one we're afraid to talk about it, you know how we need like a family of people as community of people around us who we can just be completely ourselves with and just let it all down and

143
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:39,000
Grieve and to know that it's safe and it's okay and how we were created to be in community with people in that way where we're there for each other and you know there's no judgment there's no

144
00:33:39,000 --> 00:34:03,000
button it all up zip it all up act like you're like, you know, you're fine and you're just like look, you know how it looked fine on the outside and everything but how we can just like be ourselves and how that's good and that's like God given like he God gave us the community to be able to do that and so

145
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:10,000
just him describing that.

146
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:33,000
It just made me realize the importance of that in our culture today of people who feel alone and feel like they're looking around around them in the world like who is there for me who will listen who will hear me and wrap their arms around me and validate my feelings and you know under seat to understand

147
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:57,000
me and it's really sad in our culture that that's how it is where a lot of times if it's not your biological family members or your family members around you who are those people who else can it be and so people are just like looking for those people and

148
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:22,000
sometimes it's not the church either which you know I think biblically that family should be the church to be that safe place we can go to but you know we're all we all need that and it really grieves me to see how our culture is and how everybody's so busy and

149
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:46,000
fast paced and they have their own like things going on their own business their own schedule and just not really giving their lives to help those who are hurting and alone and grieving and need that support community and so you know I think there are churches that are amazing at doing that and being that

150
00:35:46,000 --> 00:36:10,000
place but I'm sad and when it's not when the churches aren't those people because you know if you're listening and you feel alone and you've been looking for that community those people to talk to you can know that you're not alone

151
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:23,000
even just hearing me share I hope that that that gives you some encouragement to know that you're not alone and

152
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:30,000
there are a lot of resources out there and people out there who want to be that family for you.

153
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:47,000
You know that that leads really well into something that I wanted to discuss but part of part of the my goal for this podcast is to have some type of action actionable steps people that people can take.

154
00:36:47,000 --> 00:37:07,000
And in your situation I really see it two different ways I'll get to the second way in a little bit but the first is especially for the church that that say you know you haven't had anything at least in the time being anything so terrible that's popped out in your own personal life

155
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:24,000
that people around you are suffering in some way shape or form sometimes it's going to be very clear like if somebody is in your church and experiences a car wreck like your family did that one's pretty apparent that there's something wrong going on but other times it's

156
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:41,000
not quite so apparent so for church members that maybe are hearing this and maybe are convicted of oh I need to be doing more and I need to be looking out for people that are really hurting especially in my own church.

157
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:59,000
What can they do to make a better impact or a better effort to help people that are suffering around them.

158
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,000
That's a good question.

159
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:07,000
I'm not expecting the perfect answer don't get me wrong.

160
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,000
Do you have any ideas.

161
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:28,000
I think just off the top of my head and kind of through your experiences there is you had people that were were asking that they were asking questions they were trying to see how you were doing or giving you that place to share stories.

162
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:45,000
They weren't just I guess and certainly I would love to hear any other perspectives on this but they weren't they gave you some space but they weren't just saying hey figure it all out you know that they were there for you they were they were present.

163
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,000
I think might be a good word.

164
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:58,000
What kind of thinking through in your life and the people that have helped you. Yeah can you think of some specific ways those that helped you why they were able to be so helpful.

165
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,000
Yeah I guess a few different thoughts are coming to mind.

166
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:22,000
One is just the environment that the church creates so you know you can walk into a church and feel if it's welcoming and safe and you know if they're showing Christ like love if they're preaching the Bible you know kind of gauge for if they're

167
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:51,000
a solid church that is there to help you and help others and so you know I'm so thankful for all the churches that I've been a part of they really have things in place like classes groups things like that already in place for people who are in hard times.

168
00:39:51,000 --> 00:40:09,000
So like for example my church now has there's a moms group that moms like me with little kids can go to and they're led by older moms who have been through you know years ahead of us and can offer like wise wisdom and things like that so

169
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:27,000
that there's a grief group so they have grief share which is a adult grief program where you go through and it's a workbook and you're with other people who have also experienced loss and you can share your stories together and grieve together and learn from each other.

170
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:47,000
And then our church also has a grief program for kids which I serve with and it goes through a workbook as well and different activities to do with kids who have experienced loss and we just talk about what that looks like from a biblical perspective.

171
00:40:47,000 --> 00:41:10,000
And so that has been just a huge piece of my healing as well. Not only like getting the help I needed but to have that extra piece where I can volunteer through a group to help other kids just like I was going through something themselves because when we like put ourselves out there and help other people.

172
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:30,000
It's healing for us too. For sure. And so that's been huge. So I think it's an awesome thing when churches already have those groups in place but it does take it takes an action step on our part as well.

173
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:52,000
So you know we it's not easy to do it's you have to it takes a lot of strength and energy to you know make yourself go to a group like that and to engage especially when you're grieving you know you're it's our nature just to want to isolate and stay home and not talk to anybody and you know it just feels too hard and tiring.

174
00:41:52,000 --> 00:42:01,000
But because we're made for community and we're made for to rely on those people around us and not isolate ourselves.

175
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:20,000
The church is a great place to go to to find those those people and just by showing up and engaging with others and letting yourself be known by others.

176
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:45,000
And you know realizing that your story is important to share. You know we can think nobody's going to want to hear what I have to say like my story is not important those kinds of things but when you get to a place where you value your story and that's when you know

177
00:42:45,000 --> 00:43:10,000
you're with others and that those things I would say are huge because little by little just taking each of those steps of you know if you I'm talking from the perspective of the grieving person now not the church but you know if you aren't in community or aren't in church at all I think the

178
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:26,000
community is a great place to go to find a local church that you feel comfortable in and that you can start to make those steps and then if you maybe are in a church but you don't feel like you're really being vulnerable or getting to know people you know a step

179
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:45,000
might be find an area to serve or find a group to join where you can feel like you can share you know so it's just taking little steps by little steps to find safe people who are there for you but it does take action you know I think rarely somebody's just going to approach you and say

180
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:57,000
I want to get together and hear your story you know and be a mentor for you like we usually have to ask people if they'll meet us and to be that mentor for us but when we do

181
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:15,000
most likely people are very willing and they want to be that person and so I guess for the so that's from the perspective of the person who feels alone in their grief but from the church's perspective I would say

182
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:30,000
just being open and aware like you were saying of looking for the person the new person or the person who seems to be you know quiet not sharing much or kind of in the background and

183
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:53,000
giving time to them and you know meeting them for coffee giving them an hour just to share their story and their hurt and just hear them and you know you could be such a life changing person in someone's story just by listening to them share

184
00:44:53,000 --> 00:45:10,000
that that part alone is incredibly important. I can think of many times just in different clients that I've talked with that they come to these different conclusions and sit back like all I really did was listen.

185
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:31,000
It didn't take that many skills just sat back and listen and that that goes such a long way. And I think that's something to I've talked with several people on the podcast to that dealt with different types of grieving issues is on the church

186
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:47,000
perspective or if you're a friend or family member or whoever and you know somebody's hurting to not feel like you have to have the answer. There was nobody that could have said, Caitlin if you just do these 10 things and you won't be sad

187
00:45:47,000 --> 00:46:03,000
anymore. No, like that that didn't exist. And sometimes we feel this pressure to just fix it. And then we end up saying and doing things that are actually quite harmful to that person that's hurting and that's not the intention.

188
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:21,000
But because we're trying to force an answer that's really not there. So don't be so pressured but be be present and have like you said that listening ear. That just goes such a long way because like I love what you said earlier of your story matters.

189
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:43,000
And I when you were saying that I did have a question that kind of came to my mind. Have you had people like when you're sharing your story that they're like, Oh, well, my story is not that important. I just I just lost my dad or or I only lost my sister I didn't lose everybody like you

190
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:53,000
did. Have you had any of those experiences where people almost feel guilty to share their story because your story is so much worse according to them.

191
00:46:53,000 --> 00:47:17,000
Yes, absolutely. I have a lot of times I've had that. And it's really just everyone know person's story is going to look the same you know everyone's loss is going to be different and their relationship with that person is different and their journey is going to look

192
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:35,000
different. But you know, the reason I share is just so people don't feel alone and what they're going through like not to be like this is my, you know, overwhelm people with my loss.

193
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:56,000
But you know, just for the people like I share it for specifically for the people who may have lost one person, like may have lost a child or may have lost a spouse, or sibling or you know grandparent and just for them to feel like they're not alone in their grief.

194
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:15,000
And it's really the exact same it doesn't matter how many people you lost or didn't loss or the way you lost them, you know, but it's the feelings are the same. And so that's where we can all relate and join together.

195
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:36,000
Because grief feels like grief, you know, it's, it's heavy and it takes time and we need space and we need you know somebody listen through somebody walk through it with us and so, no matter what loss.

196
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:53,000
If someone has had. I hope that they can relate to me and I know I can relate to them just in those day to day feelings of the reality of what grief looks like.

197
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,000
Yeah.

198
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:56,000
And go ahead.

199
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:01,000
Go ahead. And then I want to say, I want to hit on one more thing that you said.

200
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:19,000
I was just going to say something that I like to tell with with clients that kind of have that mentality and I love that you have been cautious and trying to welcome people to share their stories as I'll tell people hey just because I stood my toe and you broke my arm.

201
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,000
That doesn't mean that my toe doesn't hurt.

202
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:40,000
It's not a competition. A grief loss doesn't have to be higher than the other. If it hurts it hurts and just feel what you have to feel. So I'm glad that you're you're really cognizant of sharing that for other people because no matter what type of loss it is it's still a loss and you need to share it.

203
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,000
Thank you for sharing that I love that analogy.

204
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:45,000
It hurts it hurts.

205
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,000
Yes, yes.

206
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,000
So true.

207
00:49:49,000 --> 00:50:08,000
I want to go back to one thing you're saying earlier just about the just to emphasize that point of, you know, there's no step by step like what you said of just nobody could have come to me and said, here's the 10 things you need to do to get through your grief and to move on.

208
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:20,000
And, you know, I'm so thankful that nobody did because grief for everyone is a journey that we it's a very personal journey that we have to walk through ourselves.

209
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:35,000
And so, you know, I think that is the tendency of a lot of people is to, what do I do what do I do I have to help them I have to fix them like I have to, you know, help them get better and tell them the exact things but just

210
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:46,000
realizing when you're helping someone or when you're going through it yourself that you have to walk through it yourself because it's your own personal journey.

211
00:50:46,000 --> 00:51:04,000
And as the grieving person, you know, we don't want to be fixed we don't want someone to come to us and tell us, here's what I would do if I were you or you know give us these things we just want somebody to talk to and so I think

212
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:22,000
that's hard to understand as both the grieving person and the person wanting to help because you know, we want solutions and we want to fix things and make everything look nice and pretty but just to like what I've been learning a lot recently is just this idea of

213
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,000
befriending your grief.

214
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:47,000
And just walking through life, just kind of carrying it with you and it being okay, and just having it like you're carrying a purse like just you don't have to get rid of it completely, and you're never going to we walk through life with our past with us.

215
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:58,000
And that means we carry hurt and we carry pain, but you know, we want to do it in a healthy way where it's not overwhelming us but.

216
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:21,000
And that's the idea of, we shouldn't be, you know, over it, two years down the road five years down the road, we shouldn't be feeling bad if we're still feeling it or, you know, we shouldn't feel like I should be moved on by now, but just to honor it and let ourselves feel it when we need to feel it

217
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:46,000
and let ourselves grieve when we need to grieve and share with others when you share with others and just kind of having it as a healthy friend that it's a normal emotion and a normal part of life and that we can walk through life with it and for that to be okay, you know, and to show it and for that to be okay too.

218
00:52:46,000 --> 00:53:03,000
That's comforting to me. And it's also comforting to know that Jesus didn't just grieve one time when he was on the cross, but that he also still grieves with us now.

219
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:23,000
And you know, he is a God full of many emotions and many feelings and that's how he created us in his image as well with all those different emotions and different feelings and so he is close to the broken hearted he tells us in his word and so

220
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:48,000
he grieves he has just compassion on us and he grieves with us. And that's all through our lives, you know, knowing that he is right there with us, hearing us and grieving with us and that brings me a lot of comfort to be able to kind of express that.

221
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:58,000
Yeah, no, absolutely. And that kind of goes back to what we talked about before. Yeah, God created us. He could have created us to experience zero emotions, but but he didn't.

222
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:08,000
And we need to have that trust that we feel this way for a reason and to not have it dictate our lives but have that form of acceptance. This is here.

223
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:18,000
And I'm going to trust God that he's going to help me handle it. And I think that's, that's a really healthy way to look at a extremely difficult process.

224
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:37,000
So, I'm imagining there's there's going to be quite a few listeners that for one are interested in your book and for two just kind of staying in contact with you so for those that are listening that want the book or to contact you how can they get a hold of you.

225
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:53,000
Thank you. I have a blog called a beautiful belonging.com a beautiful belonging and everything is there information about my book, contact social media, everything like that.

226
00:54:53,000 --> 00:55:09,000
I'm on Instagram at Caitlin Fiedler and my book is available anywhere you get books Amazon Barnes and Noble Christian book.com. And I just recorded the audio book for it so that should be coming in really soon too.

227
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:37,000
Great. Well, I'll have all that linked down in the show notes so you all can find that and definitely check out her book and blog and it was so great to have you on and be able to chat about a very difficult topic but I really appreciate your willingness to share the story not just with our audience today but just in general of the power of sharing our story and really just handling grief in a healthy and biblical way.

228
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:41,000
So Caitlin thanks again so much for being on with us today.

229
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:44,000
It was so great to be on. Thank you so much Johnny.

230
00:55:44,000 --> 00:56:06,000
Absolutely. Well, thank you for everyone as well that are listening in today and I hope you all have a great rest of your week and we'll catch you on the next episode.