1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,240 Welcome back everyone to another episode of Faithfully Engaged. 2 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:19,320 I have an extremely special guest today because this guest happens to be my own mom. 3 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:23,520 So mom, let me kick it to you for a little bit and have you just introduce yourself. 4 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:24,520 I will. 5 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:25,520 Good morning, son. 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:26,680 Thanks for having me. 7 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:28,720 I'm happy to be here. 8 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,840 Yeah, my name is Deanna Sanders and I am an author. 9 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,160 This is a recent development in my life. 10 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:38,840 I've been a writer for many years, but have a book coming out this year that we'll be 11 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:40,560 talking about here just shortly. 12 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,320 I have lots to tell you about that. 13 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:44,320 Okay. 14 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,880 And obviously thanks for being on here. 15 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,960 So with that being said about the book, just tell us a little bit about this book. 16 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:52,960 What's this book about? 17 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:59,760 Okay, well, the title is called Unseen People and the subtitle is Sharing Light and Life 18 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,600 with Your Neighbors and the Nations. 19 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:07,200 And this was a long time coming, the birth of this book. 20 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:15,840 It began as a blog in 2011 and that was the year I started working for a nonprofit, anti-trafficking 21 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:22,920 nonprofit, and traveling the world and hearing stories and seeing people and situations where 22 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:29,040 they were rough, that they needed to get away from abuse and exploitation. 23 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:34,000 Anyway, through the years I wrote a lot of stories, not just about that, but stories 24 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:38,440 about people even here close by. 25 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:46,160 And the whole, as it began to develop and I got to thinking, these stories can be put 26 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:47,400 into a book form. 27 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:52,880 I've seen other books where they cram blogs into a book and there's no thread of any 28 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:54,360 thing going through it. 29 00:01:54,360 --> 00:02:00,960 But this one, I started to see the development of just the progress of how God began to show 30 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:07,680 me through a variety of situations, people who aren't normally seen. 31 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:14,480 And there's all kinds in this book, from days in my childhood through my youth and then 32 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,320 onward to adulthood in different situations. 33 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:26,160 So I wanted to share these stories in a form where people could have them all in one place. 34 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:32,880 I've had them spread out in different blog sites and different variety of ways and I 35 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:38,440 want to gather them all together so I could share them more efficiently with the world. 36 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,880 So that's what this book is about, seeing unseen people. 37 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:48,600 And I want to encourage people to develop that type of vision so they can see through 38 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,480 God's eyes, people that need or are in desperate need of help. 39 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,400 That's what this book is about. 40 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:55,480 Awesome. 41 00:02:55,480 --> 00:03:02,720 So tell us, you're not going to be able to tell us every little bit of the book, but 42 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:08,680 what were some of those, not so much in the book itself, but your real life experiences, 43 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:13,960 other places you've gone and experiences for those of you that don't know you, those 44 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,120 that do know you know that you've been all over the world. 45 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:21,120 But tell us just some of those real life experiences that somebody might end up reading in the 46 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:22,120 book. 47 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:23,120 Okay. 48 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:32,440 Well, so I felt, back up a bit, I felt a call to missions and writing in high school 49 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,720 and then into college, early formative years. 50 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,200 And so I felt those calls coming together. 51 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:45,400 And my earliest desire was to go into all the world, wherever God opened doors and write 52 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,280 those stories so people could see them. 53 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:53,200 And it took a while to get there, but I eventually did. 54 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:58,960 And some of those places where I was, I was missions minister at a local church. 55 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:03,280 And that began to help me get my travel experience. 56 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:12,800 And so I was able to go places in the States as well as places around the world, and Mexico, 57 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:22,520 Canada, Italy, South Africa, multiple times to England, and Bangladesh, places that aren't 58 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,600 necessarily tourist destinations. 59 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:29,640 Some of those are, a few of them are, but mostly not. 60 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:35,400 Who would ever want to go into the inner workings of Dhaka Bangladesh is not something that 61 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,000 you really want to go get, run out and get your passport for. 62 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:44,720 But it was in those places like that, and then 14 trips to Indonesia, which is a big 63 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,000 part of my stories. 64 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:52,440 But within those places, you find, you find Christian people that you bond with for one 65 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:59,600 thing, but you also find people who are riding on a bus and you get to strike up a conflict 66 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,760 conversation, and they become lifelong friends. 67 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:09,480 And sometimes they are believers and mostly time not, but it's an opportunity to share 68 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:14,440 some light and life with those people so that they're able to get a glimpse into who God 69 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:15,440 is. 70 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:22,000 And so I've, gosh, there's a lots of stories I can tell, and I want to tell them all right 71 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,520 now, but I won't, I'll save them for the, for the book. 72 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:32,680 But in the mountains and the villages of Northern Sumatra Indonesia, down into the villages 73 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:41,520 of the island of Bali, all kinds of people who share the commonality of who Christ is 74 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:46,080 and want to get that message out to the world, and you just immediately bond and you find 75 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:53,680 opportunity to go into those villages with purpose and see women and girls who are desperate 76 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:58,880 for life and ability to get away from bad situations. 77 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,920 And so you work with people there. 78 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:08,360 One, I'll just tell you one and we'll move on, but the, one of our partners with the 79 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,120 organization, she is safe. 80 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:17,880 Her name was Wati, her name is Wati, and she has remarkable story all by herself and a 81 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:24,560 little Indonesian woman, but mighty and strong in her passion and her ability to overcome 82 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:33,640 obstacles and help thousands at this point in her life, thousands of children and women 83 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:41,480 and through seminary training, young men, equipping them to be God's messengers in a 84 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:42,640 dark place. 85 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:47,800 So she was just one, but very influential one. 86 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:57,120 So from, from somebody and your situation, you, you now live in more rural setting of 87 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:04,400 Oklahoma and grew up in all sorts of rural areas and Arkansas and throughout, throughout 88 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,640 the South. 89 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:12,000 Why is it important for somebody in those situations to go across the world? 90 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:17,000 Why shouldn't you just stay in the South, stay home and just impact the people around 91 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,000 you? 92 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:19,000 Why, why should you go out? 93 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:20,000 Well, good question. 94 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:26,760 So the, I answer that actually in the introduction to unseen people because my comfort zone is 95 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:31,800 my home as well as you would know, and I talk about being an introvert and how much I love 96 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,080 being home. 97 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:39,080 And that's the way God designed me and I'm, I'm okay with that, but to put an introvert 98 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:46,200 on a airplane that goes 23 hours to a destination with all these people and then you go into 99 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:52,160 a very populous country, wherever it was, I went people everywhere and it was like, 100 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,320 what in the world? 101 00:07:54,320 --> 00:08:01,440 But the message that God gives is so important that you have to say, yes, I'm willing to 102 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:07,400 go whether that is staying home or whether that is going around the globe and both are 103 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:08,680 equally important. 104 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:13,440 They are, but I've had people ask me that question and it's like, aren't there unsafe 105 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,040 people here, aren't there people here that need to be seen? 106 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,520 Absolutely, absolutely. 107 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:24,600 And what I wanted to say is you go do that and I'll go get on the plane because that's 108 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,160 the, that's the passion that God had given me. 109 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,000 And when, and without that calling, I wouldn't have done it. 110 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:33,600 Absolutely wouldn't have. 111 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:38,040 Every night before a trip when I packed my bags, it's like, I think I'll just stay home. 112 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:42,440 This is too much work and too much trouble and exhausting. 113 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:49,760 It was on many levels, but, but I think the vision that developed that I began to see 114 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:55,200 through the years is God put open those doors for me to go, but he also opens those doors 115 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:56,840 for me to stay. 116 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:04,960 And whenever changes of seasons in life would come and job changes would come, it's like, 117 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:05,960 what's what's happening? 118 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,440 Why am I not on an airplane anymore? 119 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:10,440 But I'm okay. 120 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:11,440 I'm okay with that. 121 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:17,800 It's important to answer the call wherever God puts you in whatever season of life. 122 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:23,640 There's going to be people that need to hear you say their name that need to hear, see 123 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:29,920 your encouragement, whether that's in the grocery store line at the checkout at Walmart 124 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:37,080 or if it is in international plane terminal somewhere around the world. 125 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:38,080 The call is the same. 126 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,000 It's just location. 127 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:48,360 Let's take that last bit go a little bit further in that of somebody saying you saying somebody's 128 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:53,880 name that on its surface that doesn't like, okay, somebody called my name, Johnny, who 129 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:54,880 who cares? 130 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:55,880 That's just my name. 131 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:56,880 But why is that important? 132 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,000 Why is it important that people hear their name and that you say other people's names? 133 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:06,280 So significant for one thing, people hardly ever get my name correct, but that's okay. 134 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,320 I've gotten over that. 135 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:09,320 Yes, you can tell. 136 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:14,400 But people saying your name, it just gives you, I mean, that's your identity. 137 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:15,840 That's who you are. 138 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:22,000 And for people to recognize that by saying your name makes you feel significant important 139 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,840 because you are. 140 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,880 But for another human being to recognize that there's just immediate connection when you 141 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:30,400 say somebody's name. 142 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,760 I try and I'm horrible. 143 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:34,880 I have a horrible memory as you would know. 144 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:40,760 But I want to be able to remember people's names. 145 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:45,760 So when I'm going through the check it line, especially if they have a name tag on the 146 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:50,280 checker at Walmart, I want to see that her name is Denise or whatever it is. 147 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,600 And before I leave, I will say, thank you. 148 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:57,720 And I look at her name Denise and immediately that person will just light up because I've 149 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:03,440 said her name and she's not just another person on the other side, clicking buttons. 150 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:08,760 She's a human being made in the image of God doing what she's supposed to be doing at that 151 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,640 moment in time, but there's an immediate connection. 152 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,440 So I'll take that name with me. 153 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,200 I will immediately try to write it down or click it on my phone or something. 154 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:22,640 So I'll remember it, but especially important for places where you go repeatedly, like maybe 155 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:28,600 to a restaurant where you go and you have the same servers many, many times and they 156 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,120 get to know you. 157 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:36,200 And so you're able over time to develop relationship, but you use their names because that's who 158 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:37,200 they are. 159 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,040 And everybody likes to hear their name. 160 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,200 Maybe it sounds like you're trying to be more important than you are, but that's not the 161 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:46,200 point. 162 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,120 The point is you're making God's image. 163 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:49,280 You have a name. 164 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:50,680 He knows your name. 165 00:11:50,680 --> 00:11:56,000 There's a lot of scripture to back all that up about when God calls people's names, which 166 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,800 may be the title of another book. 167 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:58,800 We'll see. 168 00:11:58,800 --> 00:11:59,800 We'll see about that. 169 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,080 We'll get to this first one first. 170 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:07,280 But when God sees people, he calls them by name and he has a purpose and a mission for 171 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,280 them and that needs to be our purpose and mission to. 172 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:11,280 Yeah. 173 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:15,160 Well, and like you're saying there, there's a connection there. 174 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,960 It's not just a number. 175 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:22,320 It's not just somebody we're trying to win their soul and then forget about them. 176 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,560 Like no, it's a real person. 177 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:26,760 So calling them by name, that makes sense. 178 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:27,760 It is. 179 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:35,160 There's a psalm that, Psalm 139, just to check on that, but it's God sees you where you are. 180 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,800 Whether you're up in the depths of the sea or in the heights of the heavens, God sees 181 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,320 you and he knows you and he calls you by name. 182 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,120 The scriptures and Isaiah are the same. 183 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,480 So I think sometimes we overlook that part. 184 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:55,960 And in the society in which we live today, it's easy to be anonymous. 185 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:03,960 It's easy to hide behind a screen or a phone or just get in and out as fast as you can 186 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:10,040 from somewhere and you just move on because we live in a society where you can stay hidden 187 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:11,840 if you want. 188 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:16,640 It's hard to see people whenever you have that mindset. 189 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:22,800 God knows where we are at all times and we need to develop a little bit of that God vision 190 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:29,040 to see other people where they are, whether it's a normal everyday life or if it's in 191 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:35,920 a desperate situation and knowing how to help them get out of that. 192 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:37,520 That's our calling, not just mine. 193 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:44,600 That's every Christian's calling is to see people and help them know Jesus and bring 194 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:46,200 them to a relationship with him. 195 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:51,680 That's really what I want with this book is that. 196 00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:56,040 It's not just to tell my stories and to tell all about myself. 197 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:04,480 It's to bring the readers to a place where they understand that's their calling to see 198 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:11,440 people at the point of their need and to bring them to a relationship with Christ. 199 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,720 That's the whole goal. 200 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:23,240 Let's back up away from your experiences and stories while these have been fantastic and 201 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:28,040 they're certainly written there in the book. 202 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:33,480 This is the next basis of the question here is it's in a book. 203 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,040 Some people might have similar situations. 204 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:40,920 I know people you've worked with over the years have fabulous stories but they're not 205 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:41,920 written down. 206 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,200 They're not written down even in a blog or in a book. 207 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,880 Take us through just your writing journey. 208 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,280 Have you always wanted to be a writer? 209 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,360 When did you develop this passion? 210 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,080 Just walk us through the writing portion of your life. 211 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,320 I wanted to be a veterinarian. 212 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,080 Can you imagine? 213 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:07,360 When I was a kid, that's what I wanted to be because I love animals and then I understood 214 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,800 you've got to be good at science and math. 215 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,880 That is not my calling. 216 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:18,320 So then I turned to art and I thought maybe I'll be an artist and the whole creative part 217 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,720 of me began to emerge. 218 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,280 It was in high school. 219 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:27,840 There's a creative writing class of all places. 220 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,800 It was in Chapel High School and Pine Bluff. 221 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,320 There's a wonderful teacher. 222 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,480 Mrs. Gorman was her name. 223 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,560 She saw my ability to write. 224 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:46,160 At that point, I started writing different types of writing from poetry to long stories 225 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:51,600 and short stories and all those things, even a script for a cartoon, all different types 226 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:52,600 of writing. 227 00:15:52,600 --> 00:16:01,200 I began to see that this was a passion that I wanted to see at the words on paper. 228 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:08,600 I followed that calling into college at another long word, Washington Baptist University in 229 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:15,480 Arcadelia, Arkansas, and had another professor there, Dr. Downs, who was really good at challenging 230 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:23,720 me and marking up my pages with big red pen, but knowing that I had the talent to be able 231 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:24,720 to write. 232 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,600 Once again, I learned lots of different ways to do it. 233 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:36,080 But that intersection in my college years, I also felt a calling to mission. 234 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,800 As I said a while ago, I thought that maybe my calling would be to write the stories of 235 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:46,000 people around the world, which is what ended up happening in a roundabout way. 236 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:52,880 But anyway, the writing process, yes, since about high school years, I've wanted to write. 237 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:58,520 So I've got, I don't know where they are now, but stacks and stacks of notebooks of poems 238 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:05,720 and stories and through my teenage years and into my college years, I started gathering 239 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:17,040 all those stories and continued on that journey even into my seminary years, where I got a 240 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:25,000 master's in communications and began to keep honing that skill that God has given. 241 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,400 But mostly my thoughts came out in journal writing, and that's what I would encourage 242 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,680 a lot of people to do. 243 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,400 You don't have to publish a book. 244 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,680 You don't have to write on the blog. 245 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:40,360 Like you said, some of us feel like we have to do that because we want to share it with 246 00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:42,000 the world, but you don't have to. 247 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,160 You can write your words down in the journal. 248 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:49,280 You can record them on your phone if you want, but just capture what you're thinking. 249 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,520 That's all journal writing is, is capturing your thoughts. 250 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:58,080 Sometime that can turn into a prayer journal, and that's good too, where you're journaling 251 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,000 your thoughts to God. 252 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:08,000 So that's, I think that's a good practice for anybody in your daily quiet times is to 253 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:14,040 have your journal have something nearby and a handy pin, drop those things down. 254 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:19,280 Date it, go back where you can look and see what God has done through the years. 255 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,520 So that's, that's something I continue to do. 256 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:26,240 It's been a, it's a little bit different forms through the years, but I've always done that. 257 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:31,960 So anything you can do to keep your skills sharp is good too. 258 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:36,040 I mean, if you feel like you're called to write, you can, there's other ways to write 259 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:40,760 than there's certainly a lot of ways other than book writing, which I've done as well, 260 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:50,680 which article writing, writing curriculum, writing content for all kinds of all kinds 261 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,080 of, there's all kinds of needs for content anymore, whether it's for the internet or 262 00:18:55,080 --> 00:19:00,160 for like I've done with nonprofits, different newsletters, things like that. 263 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,000 There's lots of different ways to use your skill, but you got to do it. 264 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,320 It gets got to become a habit. 265 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,600 It's not just something you all of a sudden think, okay, I'm going to write this book. 266 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:16,920 You know, you can, but you've got to have some experience and skill and always continue 267 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:17,920 to learn. 268 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:23,400 There's so many things these days out there to help you learn to develop your skills for 269 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:30,040 Christian writers, specifically even you can find all kinds of opportunity to learn how 270 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:34,960 to do it and to do it continually and to do it well. 271 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:40,160 So that's, that's where I find myself today is continuing to learn this whole new world 272 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:41,160 of writing a book. 273 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:46,720 I mean, I say I've written since I've been probably what 17 years old or 16, even younger 274 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:47,720 than that. 275 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:53,160 But that's a, that was a long time ago, but there's a lot of new ways to learn how to 276 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:59,160 do it and to be a continual learner, then that's good advice for anybody in whatever 277 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:06,840 you feel your call to is to always be willing to learn and not to be afraid of something 278 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,920 new just because it's new, but like podcast. 279 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:17,840 So, but to learn, to learn, to jump in with God calls you and to do that and continue 280 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:23,800 to learn and find opportunities to do that. 281 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:28,720 You know, I kind of have the, the inside scoop here because this is the, the guess that's, 282 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:29,720 that's my mom. 283 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,040 So I see a different, different picture here than I do with most of my guests, but I personally 284 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:40,720 know the journey for this book has been a very long one. 285 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:47,200 And I'm not talking so much of the writing portion of that, although that's obviously 286 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:53,920 a big piece, but tell the audience just a little bit of what the process of being published 287 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,720 is like, cause that's a different thing than actually writing it out. 288 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,760 So kind of tell us that story. 289 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,760 So, so I've learned, I don't take rejection well. 290 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:09,600 I'm not sure anybody does, but I got a lot of rejections along the way with this particular 291 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:10,600 book. 292 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:16,160 So like I said, I've written forever, but this, writing the book and having it published 293 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,440 is a whole brand new thing for me. 294 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:24,320 I've, I've learned some things in the past and, and I've actually wrote a fiction book 295 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:30,000 many, many years ago unpublished, but I learned some things through that process that it's 296 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,000 hard. 297 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:36,920 It's, it's like, you know, everybody thinks they can be a writer and has a book in them. 298 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:43,920 And maybe you can, but to get it to the publishing to the right publisher at the right time is 299 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,120 a whole another thing. 300 00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:54,160 And so yeah, I, I, once I figured out that I wanted to do this with all my blogs and 301 00:21:54,160 --> 00:22:00,720 combine them into a book, that's when I started really needing some help. 302 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:07,520 And a lot of times the way to do that is to find an agent that will represent you. 303 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:17,040 And so I tried that route and I attended some, this particular one last year was an online 304 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,040 writers conference. 305 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:24,200 And so what you learned to do is you have your, your book idea, you have all your ideas 306 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,400 kind of on one page and that's what they call this is a one page. 307 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:34,480 You have all your information there and then you pitch it to an agent that you've con, 308 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:41,040 I had an appointment with and then they kind of gives you a thumbs up or a thumbs down. 309 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:46,480 And I got several thumbs down, but it just wasn't the right story for the right publisher 310 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:47,880 at the right time. 311 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,320 And to find that fit is quite the journey. 312 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:58,600 And so I never really did get an agent, although I still recommend that for people. 313 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,840 If you really think you have a publishable idea. 314 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:07,880 But this one particular agent, he didn't take me on as a client, but he gave me a lot 315 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,240 of wisdom about how to organize my book. 316 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:17,640 I had like 60 something chapters and he goes, no, that's not my work. 317 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:25,840 So he showed me how to combine that into workable units that, that are readable without being 318 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:26,840 disjointed. 319 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,760 And so he gave me the wisdom of how to do that. 320 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,880 And then continued to give me free advice. 321 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:38,360 I'd, I'd shoot him a question and he'd answer back and, and that was free on his end. 322 00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:42,160 And this, because he saw the, he saw something in me. 323 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,960 He didn't necessarily know if that particular book was right for his agency, but he did 324 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,760 think that it had possibilities. 325 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:54,240 So that, that got my attention that I needed to continue it. 326 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,720 So I, I pitched it to him and I continue to send it out. 327 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:04,480 There's a Christian Writers Market guy that comes out every year that has a list of publishers. 328 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,720 And so I started working through that to see who might want this book. 329 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:15,160 So whenever a publisher looks at your proposal, which is a longer version of your one sheet, 330 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,240 he goes into a lots of, a lots of detail. 331 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:23,000 They look at that and they decide if it's something that they can sell, if it's a traditional 332 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,720 publisher, they will decide if it's something they can sell. 333 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,880 And if they think so, they will take it and they'll want to see more. 334 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:35,320 They'll request the first three chapters or whatever. 335 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,400 And then they'll decide if they want to take it onward from there. 336 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,600 I did have a few requests to see those first three chapters and that's, and then it stopped. 337 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:47,760 I was like, ah, didn't find out I still hadn't found the right person. 338 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:52,440 So, but I've also learned, and this is kind of something new that's happened within my 339 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,160 writing career from all these years. 340 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,040 Is there's more than one way to publish anymore? 341 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:04,160 It used to just be the tradition of publishers, which is kind of narrowed down through the 342 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:11,600 years to five or six main publishing houses, the Zondervans, the Holmen, Broadman Holmen, 343 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:16,640 all of those, all kinds. 344 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:25,640 But now it started self-publishing a few years ago, several years ago now, which is, you 345 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,120 know, you're going to get your book out there because you're self-publishing, but there's 346 00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:34,800 a lot to learn about how to do it from cover design to goodness, all the different choices 347 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,920 you have to make about presentation of the book, that if you had a traditional publisher, 348 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,600 they'd take care of those things for you. 349 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,880 But then there's an in-between, there's a hybrid publisher where they take the book 350 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:53,800 and decide that they want to take it on, and they do the cover design, and they do the 351 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,800 editing, and they do all those things, but you still have a voice in it. 352 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:02,000 You're still able to help along with the journey. 353 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,760 So there's a lot of different ways. 354 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:13,360 Through a lot of last year, I started sending this out to different publishers, both hybrid 355 00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:19,520 and traditional, and I kind of had ruled out self-publishing just because I didn't want 356 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,240 to deal with all those details. 357 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,960 I admire people who can, but I thought if I can find either traditional or hybrid publisher, 358 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,280 that's the way I'm going to go. 359 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:36,840 And so I kept getting rejections, closed doors, and then finally I sent one to a publisher 360 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:42,000 called Ambassador International, and I didn't hear from them. 361 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,720 And I thought, huh, after a few months, I thought, I'm going to try again. 362 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,840 And this is months down the way, and I reached back out and I said, did you have a chance 363 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,080 to look at that and have everybody hear from you? 364 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,160 And it had just gotten lost in the weeds somewhere, and that happens. 365 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,480 So you've got to be persistent if you think this is the right place. 366 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:04,800 So I'm not a bulldog, but I am persistent on things that I think are worthy. 367 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,480 So he got back right back with me and said, yeah, this may be something we want to look 368 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,560 at, and he wanted to look at the whole book and read it and said, yep, we're going with 369 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:13,560 this. 370 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:14,560 So that's how that happened. 371 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:15,560 It just kind of happened all at once. 372 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:22,520 And this was in November, first of November of this past year. 373 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:27,360 And so we're a few months into it, and it's like day difference. 374 00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:31,560 And all of a sudden, you're trying to get it to the right place at the right time. 375 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:37,800 You're trying to find conferences to go to and people to interact with and build a relationship 376 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:38,800 with. 377 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:40,480 And then all of a sudden, it just happens. 378 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:48,440 And just for a person of faith, it's like, OK, slow down a minute and pray it through 379 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,640 and make sure talk through with your family. 380 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,040 This is a good fit or not. 381 00:27:55,040 --> 00:28:01,520 But the way God tends to work with me is like, I know that it's right at the right time. 382 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,680 And I felt that peace about it. 383 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,160 So sign the contracts and off we went. 384 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,320 So it's still, I said that was in November. 385 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,680 And so here we are in June. 386 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,880 And it's in the editing phase. 387 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:21,120 And also, and the artist is starting to work on the cover design. 388 00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:24,760 I'm really excited about to get the cover design. 389 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:30,680 And then we can show people what we're looking at visually. 390 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,440 And they'll get a better idea of what's happening. 391 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:39,000 So sometime probably later this summer into the early fall, all of that will be settled. 392 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:44,000 And then we'll get into the final process of publication. 393 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,800 Hopefully, it'll come out by the end of the year. 394 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:47,800 But we'll see. 395 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:48,800 So say I'm learning. 396 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:49,800 This is a whole new. 397 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:56,400 I am in my my sixties and I'm learning new stuff about how to how to do these things. 398 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:57,400 But it's exciting. 399 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:58,400 I'm enjoying it. 400 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,320 And it's a process and it takes patience. 401 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,920 But if it's if it's worth it, then you do all those things. 402 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,800 So that's probably more information. 403 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,320 No, I think it's great. 404 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:17,480 And it really leads into this this next question that I kind of like to ask all my guests if 405 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,280 I get the chance. 406 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,600 And I want to break yours up into two different ones. 407 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,760 This podcast is really built on on action. 408 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,880 It's built on the kind of the genesis. 409 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,840 A lot of listeners have heard this already is people that are in more of a of a Christian, 410 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,720 a conservative type of worldview. 411 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,600 There's a lot of great content out there, but a lot of it's just about what's going 412 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:49,240 wrong, all the bad stuff, which is not inherently bad to have an understanding. 413 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,920 Of what's going on, but I don't want people to stay there. 414 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,400 I want people to be active and to be being engaged. 415 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,280 That's why we call this faithfully engaged. 416 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,720 So I want to break this into two kind of actionable pieces. 417 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:08,640 The first one, let's focus on really what you just said, and this will probably be, 418 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:09,960 you know, the longer form. 419 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:17,280 You probably already went went through that, but I want to go even closer into the listener. 420 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:24,680 Use this play right now, and they can get off of this recording and then go do something. 421 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:31,600 They can go get at least closer to getting either a book published or a blog post, anything 422 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:40,000 in the writing world, but they're just stuck and maybe self doubt or am I really good enough 423 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,000 to do this and they just can't quite go. 424 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:50,200 What would be your advice for any type of writer to just get started? 425 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:51,200 What would you say for them? 426 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:56,760 I would say, well, first of all, just do it and just write and just to get it going for 427 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:01,840 your own sake, but also you need other people. 428 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:10,080 So one thing that has been helpful for me in this past year is to join a writer group. 429 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:15,520 Sometimes they're local, you can go in person, but the one that I'm a member of is an online 430 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:20,760 group and it's called Hope Writers, and you can just find them at HopeWriters.com, I think. 431 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,800 But there's a lot of groups out there, and you can find them on Facebook groups and all 432 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:32,280 kinds of things where you're getting advice and benefit experience of people who have 433 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:33,760 done these things. 434 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:42,360 So with my particular group, they have a whole library of guests that have been interviewed 435 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,920 like this that give their wisdom on a variety of writing topics from book publishing to 436 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:53,960 what you do if you have writer's blog to how to find inspiration for stories, all of those 437 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,600 things for both fiction and nonfiction. 438 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:06,800 I'm a nonfiction writer these days, but there's advice for both types of writers. 439 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,920 And also I would say find a writer's conference. 440 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,800 Once again, the one I mentioned earlier was an online writer's conference. 441 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,720 And here in Oklahoma, you think it would be something close by, but we're really kind 442 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,560 of not, but this goes out to people all over the place. 443 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:29,200 So there's a lot of conferences, especially there's one going on right now in North Carolina, 444 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,440 which I could have been at the Blue Ridge Christian Writers Conference. 445 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,600 But there's writers conferences everywhere. 446 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,080 There's something Chicago coming up soon. 447 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,280 There's another one or two in California. 448 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:43,960 They're all over the place. 449 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,880 So some of them, if you can't go in person, go online. 450 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,080 At least you're able to hear conference speakers. 451 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,640 You can go into breakout rooms. 452 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,960 And sometimes in those breakout rooms, you actually get to talk with each other, like 453 00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,440 online talk. 454 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:05,720 And so your building relationship as well as building your knowledge about writing. 455 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:13,440 And some of those pieces of advice they will give you is what to do at this point in your 456 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:14,440 life. 457 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,360 Because everybody's in a different place on the journey. 458 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,280 Are you feel like you're all alone and you're not? 459 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,040 There's other people out there struggling to find out what to do. 460 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,360 And you can access those people in a lot, lots of ways. 461 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:34,520 Online groups as well as, like I said, Facebook groups, there's people on Twitter and Instagram, 462 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,120 wherever you want to go. 463 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:38,680 There's a lot of writers out there. 464 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:39,920 There's a lot. 465 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:47,360 And so just find your tribe, find your people and dig in and commit to it for the long haul. 466 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,960 So you can see how this group works and how you can interact. 467 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,720 And how you can also help other people. 468 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:55,120 Because you've got wisdom too. 469 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,640 And it's not just one-sided. 470 00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,960 It becomes a relationship. 471 00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:06,040 In this past, just in the last couple of months, there's about three different people in my 472 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,720 writing group I thought that we kind of connected. 473 00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:10,600 It took me a while to find out who those people were. 474 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,520 That's why I'm saying do it for the long haul. 475 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:18,280 But I found out other writers that are similar in topic to what I do. 476 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,840 And also some of them similar in age, but some of them are younger. 477 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:30,320 And so we've kind of built a bond and helping each other. 478 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,800 Encouragement is probably the biggest thing. 479 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,360 I like those words of encouragement. 480 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:39,640 And so they are good at doing that as well as they can be honest too. 481 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,200 You can give them a piece of your work and say, tell me what you think. 482 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:44,520 And sometimes they really will. 483 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,120 So I got you ready for that. 484 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,800 But that would be my two things that you can do immediately. 485 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,240 Find a group and find a conference and get involved. 486 00:34:54,240 --> 00:34:56,720 Do those two things. 487 00:34:56,720 --> 00:35:02,560 I find this is what's so interesting what I really love about doing this podcast and 488 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,040 talking to people in different walks of life. 489 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:10,560 That there seems to be some similarities in different things just because we're humans 490 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,840 and we all kind of operate similarly even if we have very different personalities. 491 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,840 But that's a common thing is don't do it alone. 492 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,560 That we're just not, I think that's the way that God made us. 493 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:30,160 We're not built to be completely isolated even as to introverted people that enjoy a 494 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:35,640 long time, what we still recognize that you need to have other people. 495 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,200 Great wisdom there. 496 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:44,640 And then the second piece, and this is going to be more on just the strictly faith based 497 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,720 side of things. 498 00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:52,040 People that maybe have heard your story or God's been tugging on them for a while that 499 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:58,040 they want to be involved in missions in some way, shape or form. 500 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:04,760 And I'll make this pretty abroad that this might be somebody that is able to go and maybe 501 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,000 they can go do a mission trip this summer or something. 502 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:16,720 Or maybe it's a some grandma in their 80s that physically is not able to go and do something, 503 00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:18,600 but they want to be involved. 504 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:23,840 So for anybody and everybody that wants to be involved in missions in some way, shape 505 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:30,680 or form, what's something that they could do after hearing this to just be more involved 506 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:31,920 in the missions process? 507 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:32,920 Right. 508 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,560 Oh, that's a big question. 509 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:41,680 So of course, number one is go through your church. 510 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,640 If you're involved in a local church and if you're not, go do that. 511 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:50,640 But and find out what they are doing in the world of mission. 512 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,440 Because if it's a church who feels if it's a well rounded God called church, they're 513 00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:01,520 going to be involved in mission at some level locally and globally. 514 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,080 So so do that. 515 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:07,600 Talk to your pastor, find or find another staff member, find somebody that's in charge of 516 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,760 mission and talk to them about what that is. 517 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:20,400 I feel like everybody is called to to mission and it can find its way in different forms. 518 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:21,800 Everybody can pray. 519 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:28,640 Everybody can give not everybody can go, but you can help support somebody who does. 520 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:37,000 So for that 80 Euro grandma, which you know, I'm going to be soon is find specific ways 521 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:38,640 to pray. 522 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:43,960 I've written for a publication for a women's missionary union for years and and different 523 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,880 different audiences of that organization. 524 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:53,600 But they there's other other denominations have other pieces of mission literature that 525 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,360 you can read and learn how to pray specifically. 526 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:03,520 If your church is involved in a partnership of some type, learn how to pray for those 527 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,880 particular needs, find out what they are. 528 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:10,880 Don't just say, God bless the missionaries, pray specifically about who they are, what 529 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:11,880 their needs are. 530 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,400 And if you don't know what the needs are, find out and pray specifically. 531 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,480 There's always a need to give and and whenever you start talking about missions is like, 532 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,480 oh, there's another mission offering. 533 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,040 And I promoted a lot of those through the years. 534 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,200 But because you can't go and do things without the financial resources to do it. 535 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:36,760 And if you just if you look at it in the terms of your your dollars or helping people get 536 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,800 out of bad situations and hear the love of Christ and see the love of Christ in action 537 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,480 through a person. 538 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:48,280 That's worth every bit of financial investment you can give. 539 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:58,880 But if you can go and I've I've taken 70 plus year old people on trips before and that was 540 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:00,240 they felt called to go. 541 00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:06,280 And so I couldn't say that they weren't and we provided opportunities for them to go and 542 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:07,280 to serve it. 543 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:15,680 And there's nothing like seeing with your own eyes the depths of of poverty or the depths 544 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:22,440 of pain, the depths of of just separation from God through throughout the world and to 545 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,080 see it with your own eyes makes a world of difference. 546 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:30,920 So you can you can do that through actually through video and different things like that. 547 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:36,120 But if you can get on a bus or a plane or or whatever and go for yourself with a group 548 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:45,120 from your church or your area, whatever group you decide to go with, it'll change you whenever 549 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:51,200 you smell it and walk in it and breathe it and sit in the homes. 550 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:57,720 I'm immediately thinking about sitting in the homes of women in in Indonesia, I'm sitting 551 00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:06,080 on their mat and drinking their strong Sumatran coffee and hearing their stories and listening 552 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,880 to them giggle and watching them cry. 553 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:14,360 And it's just you're physically there and so you can feel it and absorb it in all your 554 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:15,360 senses. 555 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,200 And as a writer, that makes a huge difference. 556 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:25,560 You'll be able to share through all your senses what it is that you've experienced. 557 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:29,840 And then you can come back home and help other people understand that better because you've 558 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,800 experienced it better. 559 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:38,240 And so that's kind of the completion of the loop is you find where to go, you go and experience 560 00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:39,840 what you come back and share. 561 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:44,360 And then maybe you go again and again and again or help somebody else go and you know 562 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:48,680 how to pray because it's it's part of who you are. 563 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,200 And so all of that kind of works together. 564 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,160 So yeah, get your passport and go. 565 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,360 That's what I tell people get the passport, get it ready. 566 00:40:58,360 --> 00:40:59,520 You don't have to use passport. 567 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,240 You can go across the street and find people. 568 00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:08,720 That's another I didn't leave that I was thinking internationally when I was speaking just now, 569 00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:12,440 but there's people in nursing homes. 570 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,760 There's people in hospitals. 571 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:20,600 I have stories in the book about a therapy dog. 572 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:25,680 Daisy was my therapy dog and we went into hospitals and nursing homes and and you there's 573 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,800 all kinds of people that are in need in those places. 574 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,400 And so you can do that. 575 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:34,960 You can be on your own mission without going with a team somewhere. 576 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,760 There is plenty of opportunity to do that. 577 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:43,040 Just kind of have to be willing to find out what those things are and go do it. 578 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:44,040 Yeah. 579 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:48,800 And and that kind of be that that's kind of at the center of all this is you you're never 580 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,040 going to have bright flashing lights and this is exactly it. 581 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,520 Like you do have to just you just have to do it sometimes. 582 00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,800 And yeah, we actually read a book recently on the giving side of things. 583 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:08,520 And this is something that I think is important for any Christian in any way, shape or form. 584 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,720 But we read this book is called The Treasure Principle by Randy Alcorn and really was just 585 00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:18,440 talking about giving and why that's important as as a Christian. 586 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:25,280 And it specifically talked about missions and how that is a wonderful way to care about 587 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:33,320 missions is by just giving, whether it's $10 or $10,000, you are thinking about that. 588 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:39,160 And that can really instruct your prayer life of my kid just gave $2. 589 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:44,320 I want to pray that those $2 goes and and helps the people that whoever the missionary 590 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:46,360 is serving. 591 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,520 So yeah, you can be involved. 592 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:55,200 And again, whether it's international or not, you can go talk to your neighbor. 593 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:56,320 You can talk to somebody. 594 00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:01,760 So there we can't use too many excuses that I can't go international. 595 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:09,040 One, you might be able to we don't want to use that throw that off the boat too quick. 596 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,080 And if you're not, you can still be involved in some way, shape or form. 597 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:13,080 Yep. 598 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:14,520 Randy Alcorn is a really good writer, by the way. 599 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,000 I read I haven't read that book. 600 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,680 I read others from him. 601 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:22,480 Really insightful, talented writer. 602 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:30,000 But the giving part is just key for those people who do go and come back and they people 603 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,240 who give want to know what's happened with their money. 604 00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:37,200 And working for nonprofits, I have known that's to be really true. 605 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,160 They want the stories about what happens to people. 606 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:48,880 So in a team, volunteer team member, when they go and they see all these these experiences 607 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:55,320 and they see the people, you want to make sure have opportunity to write it down before 608 00:43:55,320 --> 00:44:01,200 you leave the country for sure or leave your location because you'll forget, you will, 609 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:07,280 but be able to share with people who've given those dollars so they can you can connect 610 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:12,040 with them that this takes everybody to make it happen. 611 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,920 And no job is less important than the other. 612 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:20,440 And the praying is just as key as well as a given you got to have that and you got to 613 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,440 have people willing to go. 614 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,440 So all of it works together. 615 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:28,760 But make sure you tell those stories about what's happening with those dollars, how it's 616 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:33,240 helping the missionaries or how it's actually helping the people. 617 00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:36,560 And you've seen it so you can tell the truth about what's going on. 618 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:43,280 So be sure and make that part of your job assignment is to tell when you get back. 619 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:44,280 Absolutely. 620 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:52,080 Well, I think some fantastic stories, fantastic wisdom of just your own experiences. 621 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:58,280 As you mentioned earlier that we don't really know exactly when the book is going to be 622 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,320 coming out and everything. 623 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:06,800 And just for transparency for those of you that are watching this when it goes up, I 624 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:11,720 don't fully know when this episode will air, but won't be too terribly long in the future. 625 00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:16,840 But for those of you that are listening to this and they want to be plugged in, connected 626 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:21,480 here about when the book will be announced and just be able to connect with you. 627 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,400 How could they find you and stay in contact with you? 628 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,480 And I would love that if people would. 629 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,200 The main place would be at my website, dnlnsanders.com. 630 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:37,880 I used my whole name because that's what my mom would call me, Dnl. 631 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:42,760 But anyway, dnlnsanders.com and on those pages I will update. 632 00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:49,120 I have a link, I have a page on there about the book and it's just called that, the book. 633 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:54,440 And so you can go look and see what the updates are on that. 634 00:45:54,440 --> 00:46:03,280 And I also would invite people to, while they're on the website is to subscribe to my weekly 635 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:04,840 newsletter. 636 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:14,200 It's a substack newsletter and there's a form on each page on my website where you can just 637 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,480 put your email in and you'll get connected. 638 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,120 You'll have an email every Wednesday. 639 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,040 It's called a Good Word Wednesday. 640 00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:25,280 And so every week I'm able to connect with people who want to know what's going on. 641 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:32,000 I have a good word encouragement and insight that God has given me throughout the week 642 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,960 that I get to share with people who want to read it. 643 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,880 And always I will give an update about the book if there are some. 644 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:45,000 So you can just please sign up and so we can talk about a community. 645 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,520 That's what I feel like my good word community is. 646 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:53,920 It's a group of people who bond together over what God is doing in our lives. 647 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:58,120 And I'd love to hear back from people to get that feedback, don't know what's going on. 648 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:03,120 I'll ask a question of the week about that word and I get some interesting information 649 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:04,400 I'd love to hear from people. 650 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:10,360 So yeah, go to the website first and then sign up for my newsletter every week. 651 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,160 And if you'll do that, I'll send you a free. 652 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,560 It's called, what's it called? 653 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,920 It's called Seven Ways to Show People That They Are Significant. 654 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,760 And so I've got seven very specific ways. 655 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,640 It's like a little e-book that I will send you when you sign up. 656 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:30,120 And it's got these seven steps in it. 657 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,160 And some of these stories that I've talked about today are already in there. 658 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:37,920 But it's about how to connecting with people and everybody wants to know that they're 659 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,560 significant when those ways learning their name like we've already talked about that 660 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,200 we talk about that in there as well. 661 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:48,920 So I will send that to you when you sign up and we'll just get started getting to know 662 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:49,920 each other. 663 00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:50,920 Awesome. 664 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:56,360 Well, I'll definitely be sure to include the website link and everything down and 665 00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:57,480 the, and the show notes. 666 00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:59,520 So be sure to check that out. 667 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,960 And I say that for all my guests, but this one's my mom. 668 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,360 So doubly be sure to check her out there. 669 00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:12,560 So mom is great, great having you on and love getting to hear more about, about your stories 670 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:17,480 and your, your book writing and just everything getting to share that with my audience. 671 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,120 So it was absolute pleasure having you on today. 672 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,040 Thank you for inviting me, Son. 673 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:28,600 And I, you know, that this is, you know, talking is not my writing is my strong suit, not talking. 674 00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:34,920 So, but I appreciate this venue to be able to, to share with people and to be able to 675 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,680 talk with you more about it as well. 676 00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:37,680 So thank you. 677 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:38,680 I appreciate what you do. 678 00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:39,680 This is good stuff. 679 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:40,680 All right. 680 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:45,880 Well, as, as I said before, go check out all of my mom's information down below. 681 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:51,040 But thanks again for, for listening to another episode of Faithfully Engaged. 682 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,160 And let's just continue fighting for truth. 683 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:54,160 You guys take care. 684 00:48:54,160 --> 00:49:22,160 Thank you.