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Alright, well everyone, welcome back to another episode of Faithfully Engaged.

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Today, my guest name is Scott.

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So Scott, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?

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Sure, Ronnie.

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Well, thanks for having me on the show.

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Yeah, so my name's Scott Loppeer.

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I'm a teaching pastor in Southwest Washington.

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I've been here since 2010.

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My wife and I grew up together in Northern California, and I'm also an author and speaker,

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although primarily I'm at my church most of the time, so I'll speak that frequently.

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And we have nine children.

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We're expecting our 10th child in October.

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Mostly the topics in my books are nonfiction, Christian living, marriage, finances, trials

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and suffering, work and rest, drawn largely from my sermons because I don't have the bandwidth

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to write separately from my preaching.

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So if it's in a book more than likely I've preached it to my church.

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My speaking engagements are primarily the marriage conferences I do, although sometimes

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we I speak at home school conferences because, you know, we have home school and we have

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a bunch of kids and I think that people think we know what we do, we're doing, but frequently

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we pretty much feel like we don't know what we're doing.

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So yeah, and happy to answer any other questions.

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I was an Army officer after college, then tie elementary school.

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That's when I became a Christian and wanted to go into ministry.

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Yeah, perfect.

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Well, that kind of leads into that kind of first question that I had there.

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There's a lot that I want to get into, but yeah, just tell me a little bit more about

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that journey of accepting Christ.

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I know it sounds like you a little bit later in life.

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Did you grow up in the Christian family?

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Just kind of go through that story.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Thanks for asking that, Johnny.

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I appreciate it.

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I'm always happy to share my testimony.

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So I was raised in the Catholic Church.

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We were, I guess you would say, a devout Catholic family and that we went to church every Sunday.

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I was an altar boy.

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Never heard the gospel.

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I thought basically good people go to heaven, bad people go to hell.

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Jesus died for your sins, but you still need to go through all the sacraments and observe

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all those confirmation, first communion baptism in the Catholic Church.

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And that's how you get to be good enough to go to heaven.

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So then in my early 20s, it was just my brother and I growing up.

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He was 14 months younger than me and he died of a drug overdose.

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He had become addicted to drugs, although he was very functioning well.

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He was in the military and I got the news that he died and a couple of friends or teachers

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that I was friends with and they invited me to their church and they just said, hey, why

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don't you, it wasn't like come to church with us every Sunday.

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It was like our pastor lost his brother when he was about your age.

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You're struggling.

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Why don't you come and talk to him?

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And so I didn't have any intention of being born again or saved.

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You know, those weren't terms in the Catholic Church.

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I'm literally just going to this church.

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It was a Calvary Chapel to talk to the pastor about my brother passing because of my struggles.

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And I even thought I would encourage my parents perhaps to know that I was getting, getting

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some help with what I'm going through.

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So I go to this church.

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I don't bring a Bible because I never brought one to the Catholic Church.

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They hand me this Bible and the pastor begins the sermon and he, you know, tells us to open

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it was to Peter, first Peter, and he reads a verse and explains that reads a verse and

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explained it.

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And it was really a life changing moment for me, Johnny, because I felt like God was speaking

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to me through his word.

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I understood it.

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We're in the Catholic Church.

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I'd never really read the Bible.

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It's kind of you does this taboo cryptic book.

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You can't really understand.

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You need, you know, you need to hear from the priests to understand anything or the Pope

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and all your prayers are to marry into the saints.

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And so here it was like, well, the Lord is directly speaking to me and I heard the gospel.

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I didn't even get to talk to the pastor about my brother that Sunday and I was already looking

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forward to coming back the next Sunday.

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And then I heard the gospel soon after that and I, it bore witness.

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It was very contra contradictory to Catholicism, which teaches salvation by your justified

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by works.

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I mean, that's not a secret the Catholic Church says as much.

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I mean, that's why there was a reformation, right?

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And so, so then it bore witness to me that we're justified or declared righteous by grace

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through faith in Christ.

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And I was saved and then just kept going to church and really loved God's word.

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I wanted, I thought I would be a schoolteacher the rest of my life, but then I wanted to

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tell people to open their Bibles versus tell kids to open their math books, you might say.

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So.

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Yeah.

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What a great story.

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And that's actually something my church has fairly recently done.

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We have a monthly just get together and four times of those, it's a business meeting, but

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the other ones is just kind of get together and eat together.

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And then we also have one member each month share their testimony testimony.

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And I think it's fantastic because we hear so many different stories.

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And sometimes people feel like, Oh, well, I wasn't saved from drugs and alcohol myself

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or whatever.

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So that makes my story weak.

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But no, that's not true.

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The beauty is we are all sinners and God saved us.

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So there's a beauty in every testimony.

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So I really appreciate it.

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Yeah.

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I heard someone, thanks, Johnny.

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I heard someone say one time that they thought they couldn't share their testimony because

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it wasn't dramatic enough.

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And that really saddened me.

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It was like all the testimonies I hear, they were a murderer and they're in prison and

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they get saved and they're all of their terrible drug addictions.

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And it's just like, and their testimony was not much more than I grew up in a Christian

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home and I trusted Christ for salvation.

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And I need to hear, I'm thankful for my children to hear those testimonies, because that's

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my children are growing up in a pastor's home.

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So I don't want them to think that they have to have some ultra dramatic thing and go out

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and live in the world for 15 years or 20 years and ruin their lives and then come to Christ,

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you know, like the prodigal son.

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So I'm very thankful for those simpler testimonies too.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And kind of just leading into your family, you talked a little bit about what led you

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to be a pastor, but I'm curious on the homeschooling aspect.

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And those of you that've kind of listened to the show know that my wife and I, we've

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got little ones right now, but we're already doing some homeschooling things with them.

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And it's a topic I'm pretty, pretty passionate about.

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So I'm curious for you, for you and your wife, did you always plan on homeschooling?

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Was it something you came to later?

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Yeah, that's a great question, Johnny.

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So I mentioned that I went to that church to talk to that pastor.

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Well, he homeschooled and his daughter was one of the teachers at the school and she

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had younger siblings who were being homeschooled.

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And that was my introduction to homeschooling.

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I never grew up with any familiarity with it.

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I saw these parents discipling their children, spending time with them.

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And so I guess I would say this, even if you put your kids in public school, you still

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need to view yourself as a homeschooler and that you're schooling your children, discipling

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them.

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So I have some real concerns about public school, which I can share in just a moment.

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But even if you're committed to that route, it's a settled issue for you, you still need

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to see yourself as responsible for the discipleship, training and admonition of your children.

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Deuteronomy six, there's no way around it.

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When your children go to bed, when they wake up, they always need to be hearing God's word.

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We're responsible for them.

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And so how we came to that was I liked seeing this family that was able to spend a lot of

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time together.

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I think the time we have with our children is very limited.

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When you do the math about the number of hours that your kids will be in public school, you're

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going to lose so much of the most important years of their life.

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So that's one thing.

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And we tell our children that they know it's not like our home is I'm a very extroverted

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social person.

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So is my wife.

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Our family is loud.

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Our kids are frequently during family meetings, all trying to talk at the same time.

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They're interrupting.

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They can get upset with each other.

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You know, it's not like everyone's sitting perfectly on the couch just listening.

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Hey, daddy, keep keep talking to us or something.

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We're actually reading a booklet right now by Stuart Scott from it's from ACBC, the Association

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of Certified Biblical Counselors about communication to better communicate as a family because we

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have a lot, you know, so many people trying to talk at the same time.

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So anyway, my point is my children see the difficulty associated with trying to homeschool,

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buying curriculum, how much easier it would be to put them in a public school.

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And so we just tell our kids, we say, hey, we value our time with you.

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You know, we know that it would be easier.

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And that's why many people might do it.

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But we want the route that we think allows us the most time with you because you're going

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to get married and leave our home.

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But then second, we're concerned about many, and I'd like to think any honest Christian

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acknowledges that public schools have some very unbiblical at best, but even wicked teachings

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like evolution, transgenderism, the pro homosexual agenda, these are things that super undermine

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a young person's faith.

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And when I was a school teacher, there were some wonderful teachers, they were, they were

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Christians.

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Like I said, it was that pastor's daughter I taught with, they want to walk with the

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Lord, but they're still forced to teach a curriculum that undermines faith.

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Now the other thing is, let's say your child has a Christian teacher, when, when those children

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go out to the playground, when they're at lunch, they're making friends, they're around

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non Christians, there's an environment that was very concerning to us, we didn't want

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our children around.

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Now one of the things, and the other thing is some people say, well, you were a school

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teacher and you want to homeschool, that doesn't make sense.

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And I'm like, I want to homeschool because I was a school teacher.

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There's things I saw that were very concerning to me.

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And so my wife was in homeschooled, we both went to public school together.

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That's how we met.

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And so a lot of people say this, well, I can't homeschool because I don't know how to homeschool.

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Nobody knows how to homeschool.

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We don't, we don't know what we were doing.

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We're still figuring it out.

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And the most important thing is that you're pointing your children toward Christ.

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You're, you're planting the word in their hearts.

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You know, so my wife is reading biographies of missionaries to our children.

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She's, they come to my office and they do some of the math here.

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And it's generally, there's two problems, two, two big mistakes people make with homeschooling.

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The first mistake is they think way too highly of public school teachers.

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So they compare themselves to them and they're like, I can't do that.

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They're the professionals.

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That's, that's simply not true.

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I was one of those professionals and they're not better than you for your own children.

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And the second mistake everyone makes is they think way too lowly of themselves.

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And so it's like, cause again, they're comparing themselves with the public school teachers

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that they think are the experts and have all the training.

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You're the best teacher for your children.

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God has given them to you.

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God has given you to them.

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And so nobody is going to be better for your children than you.

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And so those are the big three things, you know, we wanted the time with our children.

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We thought it was our responsibility.

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God has placed the responsibility of training and discipling my children on my wife and

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me.

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And then third, we were concerned about, so even what they would learn or be around in

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a public school.

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Now let's say you put your kids in a Christian school.

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There's still two concerns for me then.

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Obviously Christian school is better than public school.

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One concern for, and this is, I'm just sharing cause you asked this question.

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I don't condemn or, you know, I don't go out in the world and condemn anyone that's

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not homeschooling.

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So our concern with the Christian school, two concerns were we didn't know all the other

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kids our students would be around, our kids would be around.

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And sometimes kids get, actually, I'm not joking, kicked out of public school and then

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they go to, they find themselves in Christian school.

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And then the second thing, we still had this very strong conviction that our children were

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our responsibility and not the responsibility of someone else.

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So.

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I think those are, those are fantastic thoughts and they are extremely similar to my wife

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and I.

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And I think at the core of all of that and for, again, for the listeners that either

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you're not homeschooling, not playing on it, or if you are just worried, you're concerned,

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I don't know how to do it.

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What Scott said there though, that even if you're homeschool, or sorry, if you're putting

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them in public school, you still need to be involved.

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You still need to check in with your kids.

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That's something that my wife and I have really been a little surprised at.

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Just for the audience and for Scott here, we live in rural Oklahoma.

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So we're like the, we're the reddest of all the red areas in the country.

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And we had this moment in Sunday school, even a bigger conservative Christian area, Sunday

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school in this red part of the country where we weren't even playing on homeschooling at

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the time.

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But my wife was a teacher like yourself and was planning on taking years off, at least

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a decade off.

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She was pregnant with her first child and she really wanted to be a stay at home mom.

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And that fact alone, not even saying homeschooling, but just not going back to work was met with

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almost like a stunned silence in Sunday school in rural Oklahoma.

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So this kind of notion is not limited to, you know, Los Angeles.

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This is everywhere.

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And we have to take serious the education our children are having, whether it's in our

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own home or whether it's at public school, that we can't just push that off and think

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it'll end up fine because it just won't.

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Yeah, well said.

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And if any of your listeners have any questions about homeschooling, I'll provide my contact

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information, ways to reach me at the end.

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You know, I'd be happy to help them.

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And I just want to really stress to everyone, Johnny.

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My wife would say she's the last person who thought she would homeschool.

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This is she basically, I had my requirements when I got married, you know, and I think

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I tell my kids the same thing, hey, kind of have your deal breakers with your potential

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spouse.

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Our oldest is going to be 16 in a couple weeks.

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And so we're not at that place where any of our kids are getting married yet, but we still

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talk about these things.

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And so one of the let's say essentials or deal breakers for me was being a homeschooling

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mother.

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Well, my wife was never planning to homeschool.

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And so she threw herself into something that she still finds to be a very big struggle

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for her.

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I could have a kid coming into my office here, you know, any minute interrupting us.

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That's what our, our lives are kind of look like.

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And so I just don't want anyone to think there's some people think this, they think, well,

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you homeschool because you're a homeschooling person or mom or dad, but I'm not.

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There's no such thing as a homeschooling mother or father.

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A homeschooling mother or father is just simply someone who decided to homeschool.

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They're not built differently.

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They're not gifted better or anything along those lines.

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Oh, I think that's a fantastic point and something that kind of has an extra bit of encouragement.

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Scott just, just showed this.

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If you are serious about homeschooling, ask questions, find people.

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That's something I have really have noticed in the homeschooling community, which is quite

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large and has all sorts of different people that are in it.

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People generally wants to help and they might point you towards a curriculum or, oh, we

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tried structuring it this way and it worked or we did it this way and it didn't work.

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Ask and more than likely people are going to be willing to help you out.

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Yeah.

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And well said.

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And homeschooling was like this very kind of foreign, almost strange, obscure, nebulous

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thing for many people like 40 years ago when there's been, and then now there, there was

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like no curriculum.

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Now there's like, you go to homeschool conferences, the, the vendor booth, the, the booth selling

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homeschool curriculum or like endless and people used to have the problem of, I can't

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find homeschool curriculum.

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Now it's like, I can't choose between the 40 different things that all look good to me.

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And then, and then the second thing is COVID sent a bunch of COVID was a tough season for

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lots of reasons.

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That's a whole other conversation.

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But one of the things that did is it put children at home with their parents and suddenly parents

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are like, wow, you know, I got a, I got a homeschool my kid.

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Now there's been this huge surge of homeschooling families, homeschoolers, which is really,

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really wonderful thing.

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So yeah, there's a lot of resources now in helpful people.

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Absolutely.

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Now this is something you kind of alluded to a little bit earlier, but just in your,

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in your own personal life and then just through, I'm sure many of the church members that you've

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counseled, what would you say are some of those common marriage type of issues that,

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that couple space?

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Yeah.

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So, so here's kind of what happened Johnny.

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I, I got, and I'm going to answer your question, just getting a little momentum into it.

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So I, I guess they've the Calvary Chapel, which is verse by verse, expositional book

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by book, you know, and I love that.

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And that's what I do.

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I've been going through Luke for years, but I saw a real need to help marriages in my

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church.

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It occupied much of my time when our, our church grew to hire an associate pastor full time.

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But at this time, sometimes people don't understand that actually I think the toughest

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ministry for pastors is a smaller church where you're the preacher, counselor, or disciple,

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possibly church secretary, you name it, you know, it's on your shoulders.

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A church grows, they can hire multiple pastors where the senior or lead pastor can then focus

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more on preaching and teaching, which is kind of where we're at.

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But at that time, when I was doing, doing more counseling, mostly marriage counseling,

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I thought, you know, I want to quit, I quit my church.

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And so I decided, I, we visited another church for some counseling training and they had

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a marriage month every year.

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And I talked to the elders and they said, Oh yeah, that'd be great.

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Let you know, let's do a marriage month at our church.

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Well the running joke was the marriage month became the marriage year because I was preaching

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these sermons.

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And as a pastor, you kind of feel out your, your congregation and I'm trying to kind of

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read them as this taken too long as this boring as this repetitive and it's like everyone

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seems to really be enjoying these marriage sermons.

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And I was finding considerably more content on marriage.

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I was thoroughly enjoying the studying and preaching.

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You know, I kind of, I kind of think, Oh, I'll go through Ephesians five, you know, well,

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then I tackle first Peter three.

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And then I see there's all these marriages in the Old Testament that are very instructive,

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you know, like Abraham and Sarah, you know, in Samuel and in, you see with Hannah and

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her husband and he's like, Oh, you know, why do you care about having having any children

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when you get to have me?

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He's like super insensitive to his wife.

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There's Samson and Delilah, how she nags him to death and the potential for a wife to nag

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her husband, all the proverbs about nagging.

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So all I'm saying is I'm finding like this wealth of content on, on marriage.

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So I'm preaching these sermons and, and then that's the content that became my first book,

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Marriage God's Way.

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And essentially, Johnny, I just wanted to equip my church.

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I just wanted to see stronger marriages to answer your question shortly or simply.

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Yeah.

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And I think that's such an, obviously such an important topic.

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And this is something I, a friend of mine, we talk about often that this friend is, is

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still single.

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And not that I have everything figured out in my marriage, but he sees, Hey, I'm married,

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I have three kids.

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So, well, actually I have three kids in the biblical sense, one's not out yet.

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We have one that's two in August.

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But how many kids do you have and what are the ages?

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Yeah.

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So I have a three year, three year old, a, he'll be a one year old.

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They'll be two in July and then another boy that will be born in August.

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So yeah, wonderful.

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At the threes.

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So we're, we're excited about that.

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But so this friend sees asking me some, some wisdom about marriage and things like that.

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And he tells me this common theme of people that I think have good intentions.

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I don't think they're trying to be demeaning towards marriage, but the common thing is

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marriage is just, it's so hard.

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It's one of the hardest things that you can do.

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There's wisdom in that, that there's, there's relationship problems that happen and you

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need to guard against that.

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But you also miss in that the joy that there's goodness, my wife and I look at our kids and

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we, we think, Hey, there's been a lot of struggles with that, but we can't imagine life without

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those kids.

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And do you get the sense of that of either couples or people in your church that kind

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of focus on the struggles almost too much and miss some of the joy of marriage?

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Yeah, I think you mentioned two things there that both involve joy and struggle.

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You mentioned marriage and you mentioned children.

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And so I think both of those can give us some of the greatest joy and blessing we experience

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on the side of heaven.

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And both of those can also give us some of the greatest trials or suffering.

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I mean, some of the worst suffering people experience can come from a rebellious child.

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Okay, so let's just deal with marriage first.

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So really the question, Johnny, is not what's going to allow me to be happiest or the most

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selfish or, or even the question isn't even what's going to allow me to enjoy my life the

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most.

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The question all of us should be asking is what does Christ want for us?

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So we don't, we don't go through this life saying what's going to be easiest or funnest

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for me.

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The question is, what does the Lord want for me?

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For most people, what He wants is marriage.

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That's the typical normal, you know, healthy pattern.

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It's not Genesis 2.18.

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It's not good for man to be alone.

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And so you go into marriage and I generally encourage people to get married, to be honest,

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younger than or sooner than later, assuming they're at a healthy age for that.

389
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Because I've noticed the problems for people that are single for a very long time.

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It's a dramatic change for them.

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It's a shock to go from a life of singleness with a large focus on yourself, because that's

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the only person you have to focus on, to then having to live for or with another person.

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And so, and I was kind of in that category.

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I actually wanted to get married.

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I became a Christian in my early 20s.

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And then it was like, now I can't, I can't live with a woman, you know, I need, and any

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longer I need to follow God's word regarding purity.

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So I wanted to get married, but I couldn't find a wife for a few years.

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I think I was 26, which isn't super old, but I'd had some years living by myself.

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And so I think it would have been much better if I'd have gotten married earlier.

401
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,320
A man needs to be ready to take care of a home and a family, but you don't have to be

402
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:53,320
wealthy.

403
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,200
I think some people think, now I got to get my career.

404
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:56,720
I got to get all these things established.

405
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There's some super wonderful couples that are living on very little, you know, in a modest

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home.

407
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They might be pinching pennies, but that's a wonderful way for them to get started.

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Now with that said, God, there's a lot of wonderful things God wants to do through our

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marriages and some of the trials or difficulties we experience can be more sanctifying than

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00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,240
almost anything else we go through.

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So for me personally, I'm constantly learning as a husband through my wife how selfish I

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am, how impatient I am, how aggressive or intense I am at times.

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I wouldn't know that without Katie pointing these things out to me.

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And so the question is, do I want the sanctifying work that God has for me through marriage?

415
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And hopefully the answer to that is yes.

416
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,480
Now with that said, there's also great joy and blessing.

417
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,880
Katie's my best friend.

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She's my favorite person to be with.

419
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We have our struggles.

420
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,840
And I tell every, I do marriage conferences more than anything else.

421
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,240
I was in Oklahoma for a marriage conference in February, so I'm kind of wondering how

422
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,320
far I might have been from you.

423
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,000
And where are you at?

424
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,480
I was at near Oklahoma City.

425
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:07,480
Okay.

426
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,960
That was roughly our 15-ish away, not too terribly far.

427
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:12,960
Okay.

428
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,520
I can't, after we get off the, after we finish the interview, I'll send you the information

429
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:17,520
for that.

430
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,840
See how far you were.

431
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,560
And so I tell people every marriage conference, look, we don't have a perfect marriage.

432
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:24,680
We have our problems too.

433
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:30,760
I need to regularly ask my wife for forgiveness for things and sensitive things that I do.

434
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But all these are ways for us to grow, learn about ourselves and be sanctified.

435
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,640
And it's pretty much the same thing with children.

436
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:42,000
And so I don't think it's good, just like I don't think it's good to get married super

437
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,000
late.

438
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,520
I don't think it's good to get married and then wait a super long time to have children

439
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:51,560
because you can get used to just being the two of you.

440
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:56,120
And then when you have a child, it's kind of a shock, you know, to have to be, everything

441
00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:57,120
changes.

442
00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:01,400
And if you never know anything different, different, if, because Katie got pregnant

443
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,080
pretty soon after we were married, I think she, you know, two or three weeks after we

444
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,480
were married, she told me that she was expecting.

445
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,920
So we only had about nine and a half months of knowing what it was like to be just the

446
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,360
two of us.

447
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:17,000
And so we've never, you know, someone watches our kids as a special thing for us.

448
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,520
But I, I can't imagine what it's like for people to spend years, just the two of them

449
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,440
to then have a child, you know, that would be, I'm actually glad we never knew life

450
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:26,760
like that.

451
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,440
And so I would say, so I guess I don't want to, I don't know if this is too personal for

452
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:35,560
your show, but we got married with a conviction to just let God be in charge, being in control

453
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:36,720
of our family.

454
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:41,120
You can kind of guess that when I say we have nine kids with a 10th on the way.

455
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:45,840
So this is not a commentary on what everyone else has to do, although I will give a couple

456
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:46,840
recommendations.

457
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:52,000
But for us, we just thought God should be in charge of this and we would let his fingerprints,

458
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,640
we wanted his fingerprints on our family.

459
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,280
So when I reached the end of my life, it's, it's not that I want to have, you know, 12

460
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,640
kids or 10 or five or seven, I just want to whatever God had for us.

461
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,520
It could have been three, it could have been five, maybe it'll be 11 or 12 or maybe it'll

462
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:12,160
be 10, you know, we just wanted it to be whatever God, God knew was best for us.

463
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,960
I do think there can be circumstances.

464
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,920
We have a young woman in our church whom we love.

465
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,280
Her name is Rachel Diefen, who wants to pray for her.

466
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,240
And she has three young children.

467
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,080
She has been battling stage four cancer.

468
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,200
She has not been able to have children and they've taken medication that can prevent

469
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:30,200
that.

470
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,120
And I thought that was a very reasonable, reasonable thing.

471
00:27:32,120 --> 00:27:36,360
But to be honest, Johnny, most of the time when people don't want to have more children,

472
00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:38,360
I hope this doesn't sound too harsh.

473
00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:44,080
The reasons I hear are typically kind of selfish, you know, I think people are concerned financially.

474
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,080
That can be very legitimate.

475
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,800
But I've, you know, we lived on a single income, our whole marriage.

476
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:50,800
I was a school teacher.

477
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,040
Now I'm a pastor.

478
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,120
I think everyone knows neither of those professions pays tons of money.

479
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:59,120
So it's kind of a quest, you know, God's taking care of us and our church takes care

480
00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:00,120
of us.

481
00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:04,160
And I do believe that most people should trust that the Lord would take care of them.

482
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,600
You know, Matthew 633 seek for the kingdom of God.

483
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:08,920
All these things will be added unto you.

484
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,880
And so you kind of go through life trusting God to provide for you.

485
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,040
You make the decisions you think he wants you to make.

486
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,320
And then you trust him to pick up the tab, you might say.

487
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,120
And so we've always thought that if God wants us to have five kids or 10 kids or 12 kids,

488
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:27,480
he's going to give us what we need to take care of five kids or 10 kids or 12 kids.

489
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:32,000
And we never thought we'd be wealthy, but we never, that was never one of our goals

490
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,100
to be wealthy either.

491
00:28:34,100 --> 00:28:39,120
The one thing I would say if you're thinking about, you know, limiting family size or spacing

492
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,680
out children just don't do anything permanent.

493
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:43,840
Don't do anything.

494
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,080
Don't choose barrenness is how I would say it.

495
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,200
Don't do anything permanent, you might regret it.

496
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:55,840
And to be honest, Johnny, one of the most common regrets I've heard from people at conferences

497
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,760
or in my church is I wish we had had more children.

498
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:06,840
I've sat with people in tears who are then in their late 40s or 50s or even 60s saying

499
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:11,680
I would do anything to go back and have not made the decision that I did.

500
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,480
And so when I talk about having more children, I don't do this, Johnny, to condemn people.

501
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,200
I'm not trying to say you're in sin, you need to repent.

502
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:27,360
I'm trying to help people avoid the regret that I've seen people experience.

503
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,080
So it's kind of like when you talk about abortion, when you talk about abortion, you don't do

504
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,520
it to condemn everyone who's had an abortion.

505
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,800
You do it to prevent people from having abortions.

506
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,680
Well, similarly, when I talk about children, I'm not condemning people who just have a

507
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,040
couple of kids.

508
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,720
I'm trying to help people avoid a decision that they could literally regret the rest

509
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,320
of their lives because I've met people in that situation.

510
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,720
So I would just say if you delay for whatever reasons and there's reasonable ways to delay,

511
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,120
just don't do anything permanent.

512
00:29:55,120 --> 00:30:01,720
Yeah, I think that's some good, good practical wisdom because, yeah, once something's done

513
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:09,400
and you can't go back and change, yeah, that changes of regret certainly can go hard.

514
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:18,080
I do appreciate your difference there between a sinful act, which I know we both would

515
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:23,160
and I assume most people listening on the abortion front would like, okay, yeah, that's

516
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,040
pretty clear there.

517
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,160
We wouldn't say that's the same thing here if I choose not to have children, more children.

518
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,960
But definitely distinguish between those.

519
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:41,200
What the lack of joy there in some of the, uh-oh, I lost my microphone there for a second.

520
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,200
I can't really hear you.

521
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:51,520
Yeah, I think it picked up a different microphone there, but my own, my USB thing fell out.

522
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,080
Anyways, we'll keep going with that.

523
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,880
But yeah, we don't want to miss out some of that joy.

524
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:03,000
And I think that's some good sound logic there just in general.

525
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:08,840
When something's permanent, you better be wise about that because we don't get to go

526
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:09,840
back there.

527
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:16,920
I wanted to speak a little bit more on something you touched on just real briefly, which is

528
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,200
really just the financial component of things.

529
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,400
Something real quick on just my personal side of things.

530
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,800
When my wife and I got married, we were okay.

531
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:36,320
I remember speaking into my wife, like she just graduated college and I wasn't in a super

532
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,720
high pain position, but we didn't have any debt.

533
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,480
And I explained to her that that's a really big deal, that we don't have debts.

534
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,800
And just trying to guide her saying we're going to be okay.

535
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:55,040
And I'm not trying to communicate here that everybody is going to just get wealthy and

536
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,400
kind of do the health and wealth side of things.

537
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:03,000
But we have been very blessed and different financial things for me to be able to work

538
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:09,480
and her to stay home with kiddos and us being able to home school kind of similar in your

539
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,720
way.

540
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,640
And we definitely have trust that God had provided for us.

541
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:21,080
On the same sense, God gave us wisdom for a reason and we've intentionally structured

542
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:27,240
things in a way to not have a lot of debt and to not live extravagantly.

543
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,240
And we've been able to care for our kids and everything.

544
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:35,480
So would you mind speaking to the audience a little bit about finances and maybe some

545
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:40,760
ways they can structure their finances in a Godfaring type of way?

546
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:41,760
Yeah, absolutely.

547
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,760
And I'll try to provide a little bit of credibility here.

548
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,800
So I shared earlier, I wrote a marriage book and that's called Your Marriage God's Way.

549
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,480
I don't know if you'll put it in the show notes.

550
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,560
And then another book of mine is called Your Finances God's Way.

551
00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:00,760
Well, if you ever want to publish a book, a publisher, unless you, if you self-publish,

552
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:01,760
you can do it every month.

553
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,720
But if you expect a publisher, and my publisher has been Harvest House, to pick up your book,

554
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,760
one of the first things they're going to say is, how does your marriage book, how's it

555
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,160
distinguished from all the other marriage books out there?

556
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,120
How is your finance book distinguished from every other finance book out there?

557
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:19,880
So I think one of the reasons Harvest House wanted to publish my book, Your Finances God's

558
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,640
Way, is they thought, hey, if there's a guy that's taking care of nine kids, you know,

559
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,000
with a tenth on the way on a single income pastor's salary, he probably knows something

560
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,000
about finances.

561
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,480
Well, there's some truth to that.

562
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,520
I did preach on finances at my church.

563
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,600
So I said earlier, I wanted to quit my church with marriage.

564
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,320
Well, one of the other things I found was I'm doing financial counseling.

565
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,560
I see people struggling financially.

566
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,880
Let's go ahead and preach, have a series on finances.

567
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,000
And then that became my finance book.

568
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,800
And so I guess if someone said, why should I trust you?

569
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,680
Or why should I believe you have credibility regarding finances?

570
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,720
Part of the reason is just that I've thrown a lot of hours into studying what God's

571
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,080
word said about finances.

572
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:06,600
And if I'm looking for an expert, I'm looking for someone that knows what God's word says

573
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:07,600
about it.

574
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:08,760
That's an expert to me.

575
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,320
And so if I want to talk to people that know about marriage or children or parenting or

576
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,560
trials, I'm looking for people who know what God's word says on these topics.

577
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,680
So I threw hundreds of hours into studying marriage and studying finances.

578
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,400
And then second, there's probably some personal credibility I have just from being, we never

579
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,000
have had tons of money.

580
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,600
We didn't grow up wealthy.

581
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,200
And so I really attribute it to God.

582
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:34,200
He's provided.

583
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:38,040
I kind of think of how when Elijah was with that woman and he tells her to go get all

584
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,680
those pots for oil and they're going to provide for her.

585
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:46,040
Well, what you notice is the pots, she always had enough, but they're never overflowing,

586
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,040
you might say.

587
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,640
And that's kind of a good way of viewing the Christian life, I think, is you're not

588
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,360
there's a there's a proverb.

589
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:58,200
I almost wish I could look it up where the the author says, don't give me too much so

590
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:03,640
that I forget about you, Lord, but don't give me too little that I get upset and curse you.

591
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,920
And there's there's nothing better about being poor.

592
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,440
There's nothing better about being destitute.

593
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,680
You know, God isn't looking for us.

594
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,400
He made certain people rich in the Bible and there's other people that weren't made rich.

595
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,440
So you're not better or worse, but I've never believed that people are better if they're

596
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,240
suffering financially.

597
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:25,680
And so I think, you know, you make wise decisions.

598
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,160
We generally buy mostly used clothes.

599
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:30,160
People have given us stuff.

600
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:31,160
We go to goodwill.

601
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:32,160
We buy used vehicles.

602
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,360
We've been we've been debt free and plan to stay that way as well.

603
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:42,160
So if you're it's like I said, I quote in Matthew 633 that you seek first the kingdom of God

604
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,680
and and all these things that we added to you.

605
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,920
Well, if someone goes and, you know, buys a house, they can't afford or buys multiple

606
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,680
new vehicles, you know, instead of buying with cash, they can't turn around and say,

607
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,800
well, God hasn't provided for me.

608
00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:00,280
They need to recognize that instead they've made bad, bad decisions.

609
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,400
And so one of the things I frequently tell people with finances, and this is how I began

610
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:09,840
my book, is that we should view finances as a stewardship.

611
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,160
And if you're a steward, you don't own something.

612
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,720
You just sort of you're a manager of it.

613
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:21,160
And this principle of stewardship applies to almost or maybe every area of the Christian

614
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:22,760
life, like my marriage.

615
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:27,200
Katie's not I say she's my wife, but she belongs to the Lord.

616
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:28,680
My marriage is a stewardship.

617
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,400
My children, it's a stewardship.

618
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:31,400
I don't own them.

619
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,160
I didn't create them.

620
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:34,160
And God can take them.

621
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:35,680
And some parents have experienced that.

622
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,000
That's, you know, really when your biggest fear is as a parent that God would take one

623
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:40,000
of your children.

624
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,000
But it's a stewardship.

625
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,280
I have this time with them.

626
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:43,800
I can't control their hearts.

627
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,360
Well, our finances are a stewardship.

628
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:51,600
It's really God's money that he allows me to manage and I'm responsible for it.

629
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,960
And so then it makes if you view finances as a stewardship, it makes it much easier to

630
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,080
be generous because you're not giving away your money or giving away God's money.

631
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:06,720
And also makes you manage it better because you view purchases as a spiritual decision.

632
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:09,920
And I've noticed people kind of compartmentalize their lives.

633
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,420
So it's like this.

634
00:37:11,420 --> 00:37:12,760
Here are the things that are spiritual.

635
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:18,760
My time in the word, my prayer life, my church attendance, finances is not really spiritual.

636
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,160
But I think that things, how do we determine what is and isn't spiritual?

637
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:24,680
Well, I would say God's word.

638
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,520
If God's word deals with it, then it's spiritual.

639
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,720
And the more frequently the God's word deals with something, the more spiritual it is.

640
00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:34,280
So there's a lot about prayer, love, forgiveness.

641
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,200
Well, those are very spiritual.

642
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,600
Well, there's also a lot about finances.

643
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:43,040
In fact, money is one of the most common topics of Jesus's parables.

644
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,200
It's a super frequent topic in Proverbs.

645
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,560
And you get to learn in the Bible when people had a lot of money.

646
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:55,720
You know, God, certain people were rich, Abraham, David, Solomon, Joseph.

647
00:37:55,720 --> 00:37:59,680
And so the fact that the Bible deals with it so much makes it spiritual.

648
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:05,000
And because of that, every purchase we make and everything we do with our money is a spiritual

649
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,480
decision.

650
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:13,560
Yeah, that, you know, it's really interesting you saying that just within my kind of my

651
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:18,440
church life, we are, for one, I've just recently become the treasurer.

652
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:24,280
So I kind of see how the sausage is made, so to speak, that kind of dig into that.

653
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,600
And it's been wonderful of kind of seeing the back end.

654
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,160
I've never seen that before as a church member.

655
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:39,080
But we've been dealing with a little bit of a budget issue and I've been so, it sounds

656
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,400
crazy, but so encouraged with this budget issue.

657
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:51,440
For one, how our elders, how they really led us during that time of, hey, let's not, let's

658
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,800
not be scared about any of this.

659
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,360
And they pointed to all the blessings we've had for years that we haven't had any budget

660
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,680
issues, which was wonderful.

661
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:05,360
And then their encouragement was, hey, let's pray about it and be able to restructure our

662
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:11,920
own finances, not so we can line the pockets of our pastor with a lot of money or have

663
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:17,960
a huge church or whatever, but so we can joyfully manage God's money.

664
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:19,880
Kind of exactly what you're saying.

665
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:28,000
And that next month, again, getting to see this back end, giving one up pretty significantly.

666
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,680
We're talking 15, 20%.

667
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,920
People's lives didn't change that much.

668
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,000
They didn't get these huge job increases.

669
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:44,960
They just dug into the spirituality of giving and realized, yeah, we can shave a little

670
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,800
bit on this entertainment budget here.

671
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,200
We don't have to do that.

672
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:53,240
And that was the other great thing too, is me being able to dig in there.

673
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:58,800
I try not to look at names too terribly much, but that's kind of inevitable if you're signing

674
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:01,120
the check.

675
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:08,360
But there wasn't that one huge gift, the one mega donor that gave $10,000 or whatever.

676
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,880
It was a bunch of people giving $20 more and $50 more.

677
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:18,600
And it was just so wonderful to see that and see the joy of church members being able to

678
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:19,600
give more.

679
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:24,800
I think that's something, again, that joy word, you're missing out if you don't structure

680
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,560
your finances in a way to give for godly causes.

681
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,480
It's wonderful to really be able to do that.

682
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,400
Yeah, well said, Johnny.

683
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:42,520
Another topic I really wanted to hit with you is, in part just because this is such a cultural

684
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:47,840
problem we're having right now, is just masculinity in general.

685
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:56,320
We hear terms like toxic masculinity and white male privilege and just all of those things

686
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,240
that really beat down the God given role of masculinity.

687
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:07,720
So for men in this culture that are kind of dealing with that, what's kind of your advice

688
00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:14,040
or role that you see for men that are feeling like masculinity is a bad thing?

689
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:15,040
Yeah.

690
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,520
Well, just to let you know, Johnny, this is one of my favorite topics.

691
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,360
We didn't connect ahead of time and I say, hey, Johnny, bring this up or anything.

692
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,720
But no, it's very important to me and I'll kind of get a little momentum into this.

693
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:31,360
So the Bible says that God made them male and female and that's repeated a few times

694
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:36,920
in Genesis and bound up in that is much more than just that there's a male and female.

695
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,560
It's all the distinctions that belong to men and women.

696
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:47,280
And so there is a very clear line between men and women that we are not only created

697
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,680
differently, but we have different roles and responsibilities.

698
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,920
Some of them throw out two terms and maybe some maybe many of your listeners are familiar

699
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,680
with this, but just in case some aren't, I'll define them.

700
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:03,040
So there's a term called egalitarian and egalitarians believe that men and women are

701
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,360
identical regarding their roles and responsibilities.

702
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:11,080
This would be, you would see this in marriages where there's no headship submission, men

703
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:15,520
are not called to lead, women are not called to submit or respect their husbands.

704
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,560
You would see this in churches where there's female pastors.

705
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,320
I completely disagree with this view.

706
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:27,640
The other view is known as complementarian, complementarian, not C-O-M-P-L-I, but as in

707
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,960
like praising the C-O-M-P-L-E complementing or fitting together.

708
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:37,760
And I don't really don't know how anyone could get around believing this view because God

709
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,560
has clearly given different commands or expectations.

710
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,800
Commands is probably a better word to men and to women.

711
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:51,680
We have different roles and responsibilities within the church and within the home.

712
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:57,320
So all, if we, God's pattern has been male leadership.

713
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,400
The patriarchs were men.

714
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,320
There were kings and not queens.

715
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:08,000
The few queens we see were mostly evil, Athaliah and Jezebel, or Jezebel and her daughter,

716
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,000
Athaliah.

717
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,000
The good queen Esther was submissive to her husband.

718
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:17,680
She, even though she was married to an ungodly man, she expected the scepter to be extended.

719
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,480
She appreciated his headship, went to him in a very respectful way.

720
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:25,760
And then God worked through Esther's submission or respect.

721
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:29,200
So there was patriarchs are men, the kings are men.

722
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,440
And then you move into the New Testament.

723
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,600
Jesus chose 12 men to be the disciples.

724
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:36,040
He could have done six and six.

725
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,040
The 70 that Jesus sent out were men.

726
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:40,760
The elders in the church are men.

727
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,000
It says, he, he, him, him, him, husband of one wife.

728
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:50,160
It never, it never says, you know, the, the wife of one husband.

729
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:56,680
It's all spoken of very masculinly for men to be leaders within the home and within the

730
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:57,680
church.

731
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:04,120
Now the world, first John 519 says the world is under the sway or the rule of the devil.

732
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:08,480
So we can never expect the world to do what the Bible, the Bible says.

733
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:15,400
So in the world, we initially saw a blend, a kind of a denial of the roles between men

734
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:16,400
and women.

735
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,480
But now, not just a blurring, but now that line has been removed.

736
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:21,480
It's a perversion.

737
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:27,640
It's been removed so completely that men can become women or women can become men or even

738
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:29,600
even very bizarrely.

739
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,080
You might not be either.

740
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,800
You might not be a man or a woman.

741
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,040
And I was a school teacher.

742
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,040
So and I write books.

743
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:38,720
I appreciate good grammar.

744
00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:41,320
They or them as a plural word.

745
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:43,880
One person can't be they or them.

746
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:44,880
Right.

747
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:51,840
And so now we have, we're ruining the English language to accommodate this perverse.

748
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:56,360
I'm almost wondering if abomination is the correct word, but at least, at least perverse

749
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,240
is the right word for what we're seeing with men saying that they're women, women saying

750
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:01,240
that man.

751
00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:02,240
Or I've even seen some people.

752
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:07,120
I like Matt Walsh and he had a, he had, what is a woman, which I enjoyed watching with

753
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:11,120
my wife and there's people that it claimed, you know, even to be animals today.

754
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,880
It's just, I can't believe people aren't throwing up their hands and even unbelievers saying,

755
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:15,880
this is just ridiculous.

756
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:20,640
We need, we need to come back to a reasonable, reasonable view of humanity.

757
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:28,800
And so biblical masculinity, because toxic masculinity or patriarchal views are being,

758
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,240
are being condemned.

759
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:35,440
I, I'm the first one to say I have a whole chapter in my marriage book.

760
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:41,560
I about headship submission when what submission is not, it's not submitting to sin.

761
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:43,120
It's not submitting to abuse.

762
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,320
Wives are not expected to submit to sin and abuse.

763
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:51,360
And even if we just briefly talk about submission, what that is and what that, what that isn't.

764
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:58,480
So if a husband, a godly husband recognizes that the greatest resource for counsel or

765
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:04,040
wisdom in his life, second only to God's word is his wife.

766
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,440
So Genesis 2 18, God says it's not good for man to be alone.

767
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,120
I will make him a helper.

768
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:14,280
Now some women cringe at that title helper, but the truth, Johnny, is that when God said,

769
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:19,640
I'll make him a helper, that is more a criticism of Adam or not more.

770
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:25,200
That is a criticism or acknowledgement of Adam's inadequacy or insufficiency versus

771
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,160
being a criticism of woman.

772
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,600
It's actually God looking and saying, man needs help.

773
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:34,000
He is the inadequate or insufficient one without his wife.

774
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:35,560
It says nothing bad about a wife.

775
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:41,240
In fact, that's the same title used for the Holy Spirit in the Psalms, the same title.

776
00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:43,560
Jesus says, I will send the helper.

777
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,160
That's the title for God himself in the Psalms.

778
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:47,160
I think I said Holy Spirit.

779
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:51,320
I should have said God, title for God in the Psalms, title for Holy Spirit in John when

780
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,320
Jesus says, I'll send the helper.

781
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,720
So it's a title of strength and adequacy.

782
00:46:56,720 --> 00:47:00,920
So anyway, let's say any husband that comes to me and he says, you know, I don't know

783
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:01,920
what to do.

784
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:02,920
I can't figure this situation out.

785
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,000
I don't know about this job.

786
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:08,560
The first thing I say is, you know, what did your wife say when you talked to her?

787
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:12,040
And he, because I as a pastor, I get people coming to me with questions.

788
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:16,080
And if a guy says, well, I haven't asked my wife first, I'll say, you know, you need to

789
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:21,560
go back and talk to her because I expect that frequently, if God made you a helper, that's

790
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:22,560
her.

791
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,520
He wants to work through her and use her to advise you.

792
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,120
Now let's say a husband and wife talk at length about something.

793
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:32,200
The ideal situation is when they come to an agreement.

794
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,640
But if it has, but that's not always the case.

795
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:39,640
And so if you've listened to your wife, all of her counsel, thoughts, suggestions, and

796
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:43,840
you still feel like you should choose a and she feels like you should choose B.

797
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:45,720
What's the solution at that point?

798
00:47:45,720 --> 00:47:49,240
You know, do you flip a coin as a paper rock scissors?

799
00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:55,680
God says in that scenario, the default or you defer to the husband and then the wife

800
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,840
puts herself behind him and supports his decision.

801
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:03,160
Now I've heard women say this to me before, I would submit to my husband if I agreed with

802
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:04,320
him.

803
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:08,600
When a wife tells me that she tells me she doesn't understand submission because submission

804
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,000
is entirely in place for when a wife disagrees with her husband.

805
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,200
She wouldn't have to submit if she agreed with him, right?

806
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:20,440
Like my children, if I tell them go play outside, that's not an issue of submission.

807
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:21,960
They want to play outside.

808
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:26,840
When I say go clean your room or go do your homework, that is an issue of submission because

809
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:27,840
they don't want to do that.

810
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,160
Anytime you want to do something, that's not submission.

811
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:34,900
I don't have to submit to God regarding fun, enjoyable, wonderful things in my life.

812
00:48:34,900 --> 00:48:39,280
So submission is literally in place for when a wife disagrees with her husband.

813
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,520
She puts herself behind him and supports his decision.

814
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:47,720
And then an important thing for a wife to understand is that she is not held responsible

815
00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:49,720
for the right decision being made.

816
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:53,440
If she was, she would actually never submit.

817
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:58,600
She would never stop pushing for her decision.

818
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:04,880
And she would probably even begin to nag, which the Bible condemns a wife doing in proverbs.

819
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,680
So, why is need, and I've heard women say this and it's very legitimate.

820
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,080
They say, oh, you know, I'm concerned.

821
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,480
I'm afraid of the wrong decision being made.

822
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,880
And I'll say after you've shared all your thoughts with your husband, it is not your

823
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,120
responsibility to make sure the right decision is made.

824
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:23,840
And if the wrong decision is made, that rests on your husband's shoulders and not on your

825
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:24,840
shoulders.

826
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:33,080
Now, biblical masculinity is not a husband who's physically strong, loud, dominating

827
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:34,080
authoritarian.

828
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:39,400
Instead, it's a husband who prays with his family, reads the word with his family, loves

829
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:45,080
and cherishes his wife, loves her in the language of Ephesians 5.25, as Christ loves the church,

830
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,920
sacrifices for his wife, sacrifices for his family.

831
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,520
That's biblical masculinity there.

832
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:57,880
It's a man who views his responsibility as the spiritual leader of his family.

833
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,960
You know, if a man said to me, how do I know if I'm ready to get married?

834
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:06,920
Well, in 1 Corinthians 13, Paul said, when I became a man, I put away childish things.

835
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:11,160
And so I'll say to a young man, I'll say, are you willing to give up all of these things

836
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:12,600
for your wife?

837
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:18,040
Because that's what's going to be required to be a godly husband.

838
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:23,080
Biblical masculinity means you're willing to sacrifice and give up many of your wants

839
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:27,200
and for your wife so that you can love and cherish her.

840
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,480
It means getting up with kids, changing diapers.

841
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:37,800
You know, it means sacrificing sleep, giving up your video games possibly, maybe completely,

842
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:42,920
giving up a lot of your sports and things like that to cherish your wife the way God

843
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:44,720
commands.

844
00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:48,680
And I'll tell you one thing interestingly, Johnny, I know submission is almost like this

845
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:50,200
cringe word.

846
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:51,800
I was doing this marriage conference.

847
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,080
I was one of the three keynote speakers.

848
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:59,480
They have this meeting, kind of a leadership meeting for this conference.

849
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:04,840
They bring in the keynote speakers and they want to play on the theme.

850
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:09,880
So the first speaker says, I'll talk about husbands loving their wives.

851
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:14,120
The second speaker who was paired up with his wife said, we're going to talk about communication

852
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:15,120
emerge.

853
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,440
And I thought, OK, well, we've got husbands loving their wives, the primary command for

854
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,360
husbands, communication, there's nothing for wives.

855
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:23,680
And I said, I'll talk about why I submitted to their husbands.

856
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:25,560
And it was like the air sucked out of the room.

857
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,000
I mean, people are like, they're like shocked.

858
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,120
You know, they're looking down and it's like, you know, what did he just say?

859
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:33,320
It was like a bad word or something.

860
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:38,360
And interestingly, any honest reading of the New Testament recognizes that it's actually

861
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:43,480
one of the most frequent commands, not just for wives, but in the New Testament.

862
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:45,400
It occurs five times.

863
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:49,960
And so any time a wife is mentioned in the New Testament, there's an accompanying command

864
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,120
for her to submit to her husband.

865
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:53,120
You can't get around it.

866
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:57,280
So honestly, what I've heard, learned Johnny, is because most people know it's there when

867
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:00,440
someone gets up and talks about it or preaches on it.

868
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:02,520
It's kind of refreshing.

869
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,400
And I've had a lot of women, it's like, wow, someone's going to tell me what the Bible

870
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,920
says and not be fearful and shrink back.

871
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:12,480
And, you know, I've spoken in some liberal places and people have come up and said, you

872
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:13,480
know, that was wonderful.

873
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,560
I knew the Bible said this, but my pastor wouldn't wouldn't talk about it.

874
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:23,480
And one of the super interesting things is because submission gets criticized so heavily,

875
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:28,960
you would expect that women would be like coming to my office or coming up to me at

876
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:33,920
marriage conferences, criticizing me or talking about how chauvinistic this is or saying,

877
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,080
I can't believe that the Bible commands wives to submit.

878
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:38,080
This is so terrible.

879
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:43,680
Instead, Johnny, the most common criticism I hear from women is my husband won't lead.

880
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:45,240
I'm hearing the exact opposite.

881
00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:46,800
My husband is passive.

882
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:48,560
I want to be able to look up to him.

883
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,040
I want him to cast vision for our family.

884
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:52,640
I want him to be a prayerful man.

885
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:54,760
I want to be able to respect him.

886
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:57,040
I want him to pray with our family.

887
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:03,160
So the bigger criticism for men is not being authoritarian or dictatorial or abusive.

888
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,160
Although I do understand there are men in that category.

889
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:09,120
The bigger criticism is passivity.

890
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:13,560
My husband is a passive, unspiritual man, even kind of a spineless man.

891
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,800
And it makes it hard for me to be able to look up to him.

892
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:17,800
I talked a lot.

893
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:18,800
I hope I didn't talk too long.

894
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:19,800
No, no.

895
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:27,000
I'm glad that you're passionate about it because it needs to be said.

896
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:34,760
And something that you alluded to there that I think is a really important piece is we

897
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:43,480
have men, married men and single men that see this shift in culture.

898
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:50,960
They might say, well, there's no good women out there or kind of go listen to like an

899
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:58,440
Andrew Tate or Joe Rogan, this kind of masculine male that doesn't really have a lot of biblical

900
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:00,000
nature to them.

901
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,600
And now all of a sudden everything is the women's fault.

902
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:10,880
And that's something that you really spoke in there of biblical masculinity to text it

903
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:14,120
on the chin of what am I doing wrong here?

904
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:17,520
I'm not finding a godly woman.

905
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:18,520
What am I doing wrong?

906
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:22,160
Why am I not taking responsibility?

907
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:26,520
And we're seeing that passivity in men of just accepting defeat.

908
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:32,240
And that's not masculine at all just to accept defeat and to give up essentially.

909
00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:33,240
Yeah.

910
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:37,360
And we actually see in scripture a very strong argument for God placing the responsibility

911
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:41,600
on a husband's shoulders for what happens in home and I'll just give you an example.

912
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,400
The fall took place.

913
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:44,560
Eve ate first.

914
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:47,880
She gave the fruit to Adam and then God held Adam responsible.

915
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:53,280
If you read Romans five and first Corinthians 15 through one man, sin came into the world.

916
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:56,160
He, he, him, there's no discussion of Eve.

917
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:57,160
It's all about Adam.

918
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:00,360
In fact, you can read that and be like, man, I thought you've had a lot more to do with

919
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,200
this than I'm seeing here.

920
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:07,040
You know, why is Adam completely God placed responsibility completely on his shoulders

921
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:11,720
because he was the head of the relationship and God holds men responsible for what happens

922
00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:12,720
in our homes.

923
00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:18,040
Another situation with Abraham and Sarah, you know, a right, Sarah, who's a great woman.

924
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:21,240
She's the first Peter three new Testament woman.

925
00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:26,200
She's the example plucked up out of the Old Testament for women to follow, not because

926
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:30,000
she loved Abraham, although I suspect she did, but because in first Peter three, it says

927
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:34,720
her submission and respect toward him, but she wasn't perfect.

928
00:55:34,720 --> 00:55:40,600
In a faithless moment, she said, take my servant, Hagar, I think it's Genesis 15 or, I think

929
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,480
it's Genesis 15 or 16 and have her, everyone knows the account.

930
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,960
Abraham passively submits to his wife.

931
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,640
And then the next thing, you know, Sarah's mad at Abraham about what he did, even though

932
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:52,640
he's doing what she wanted.

933
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:56,120
Another example is Ahab, you know, Ahab was a very spineless man.

934
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,200
He wants this vineyard that belongs to Naboth.

935
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,240
Jezebel comes and says, Hey, you're the king.

936
00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:03,200
You know, you should have this if you want it.

937
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:09,440
And if you remember the whole account, Naboth with Naboth, Jezebel writes up this plan to

938
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:13,200
have Naboth murdered so that Ahab can get that vineyard.

939
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,720
Well, interestingly, even though Jezebel's fingerprints were on it from beginning to

940
00:56:16,720 --> 00:56:17,800
end, she did everything.

941
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:19,760
She wrote the letters.

942
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,640
She sealed them and acted like she was a half.

943
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:26,320
She could not have taken more responsibility for Naboth's murder.

944
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:31,960
But then God sent Elijah to tell Ahab that Ahab was the one who murdered Naboth because

945
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:35,400
God held Ahab responsible for what happened in his marriage.

946
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:40,480
And so the same thing is whether it's Adam, Abraham, you know, or Ahab or Johnny or Scott

947
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:44,800
or whoever, God holds us responsible for what takes place in our home.

948
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,300
So we must be leaders.

949
00:56:46,300 --> 00:56:47,440
That doesn't mean authoritarian.

950
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:48,440
That's not a leader.

951
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:50,400
It doesn't mean dictatorial or abusive.

952
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:51,400
That's not a leader.

953
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:52,400
That's that's sin.

954
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:57,200
I mean, Christ like spiritual leadership in our homes.

955
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,560
Yeah, absolutely.

956
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:05,520
And that's something that men, whether things are going great or particularly if they're

957
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:11,920
going poor, take that responsibility and don't take it of just the worst dad ever, but do

958
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:13,920
something.

959
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:14,920
Get things in order.

960
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:20,800
And oftentimes that means that you got to confess sin and just keep moving.

961
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:22,400
Yeah, bring your family together.

962
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,960
You know, I've done this and say, Hey, there was this, there was something that happened.

963
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:32,080
My sons, he was kind of disrespecting Katie and there's certain things I try to punish

964
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:34,440
pretty severely in the home.

965
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:39,160
One of them kind of because we talked a lot about complimentary and versus egalitarian.

966
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:44,440
My boys, I truly expect them that I have four boys and five girls.

967
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,960
They must treat their sisters and their mother.

968
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:52,640
First Peter three seven says wives are the weaker vessel or women are the weaker vessel.

969
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:53,640
Well, that means God.

970
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:54,640
It means physically.

971
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:57,040
Women, it doesn't mean emotionally or mentally.

972
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:01,360
Some women are stronger emotionally, mentally, intellectually, spiritually than husbands.

973
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:03,520
It means physically weaker.

974
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,160
And we know this because all the men who are going into women's sports are dominating

975
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:08,160
it.

976
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:09,160
It's just, it's absurd.

977
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:13,240
Well, I talked to my boys, you know, why did God give you greater strength?

978
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:18,160
And they know the answer so we can protect women or protect our mother and our sisters.

979
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:23,680
And so if one of my brother's sons mistreats his sister, it's a pretty severely punishable

980
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:24,680
offense.

981
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:31,520
So one of my sons was being pretty disrespectful to his mother and I responded and spanked

982
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,280
him harder than I than I should have.

983
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:35,280
And it was very quick.

984
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:41,400
It was very sudden and he could see the anger on my face and it was a discipline that took

985
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,360
place out of anger.

986
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:49,720
And I had to and even Katie, even my wife, who was the one being disrespected by his

987
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:56,160
son told me, said that was just like super out of out of and it's not, we are in favor

988
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,720
of spanking our children, but you don't want to do it in anger.

989
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:00,720
And I did.

990
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:04,400
I had to bring my whole family together and say, Hey, you know, I, I sinned there.

991
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:07,040
I should not have treated my son that way.

992
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,120
That was, that was wrong to have done it in anger.

993
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:13,320
And there's other times, you know, where you bring your family together and say, I was

994
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:14,800
impatient or I lost my temper.

995
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:15,800
I shouldn't have acted that way.

996
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:16,800
Please forgive me.

997
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:17,800
That's part of being a man.

998
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:19,040
That's part of biblical.

999
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:22,480
And in, we tell our kids, we say things like, Hey, look, mommy and I are sinful too.

1000
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:23,960
We need Christ as much as you do.

1001
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:27,040
We don't preach Christ as though you need Christ and we don't.

1002
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:30,880
We need the gospel just like you guys need the gospel.

1003
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:32,800
I think that's so powerful.

1004
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:36,320
That's something my, my wife and I have been talking about recently.

1005
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:42,640
We're doing some parenting classes and things like that at church and kind of the more in

1006
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:48,720
our parents generation and other generations, there was that more authoritarian type of top

1007
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:53,160
down mom and dad are essentially can do the wrong.

1008
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:58,440
And I don't think that was the intention, but that's kind of how that would come across.

1009
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:02,840
And every mom and dad does something wrong where we're all sinful.

1010
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:10,520
And to have the, basically the pride to not apologize, to not say I was wrong here.

1011
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:11,520
I am sorry.

1012
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:16,040
That's something we have really taken to heart and tried to do the same.

1013
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:19,360
Like you mentioned there, Hey, mommy and daddy are wrong.

1014
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:25,080
That doesn't give you a right to disrespect mom or dad, but we have a responsibility to

1015
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:31,160
to Christ above that like you said before, he's the one in control and we need to apologize

1016
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:32,680
when, when we're wrong.

1017
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,400
That's such a powerful thing to teach your kids.

1018
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:36,400
Yeah.

1019
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:41,920
And when, when you apologize, you end up diffusing hostility toward you.

1020
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:43,880
Your kids are immediately in dear to you.

1021
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:44,880
Your kids might be upset.

1022
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:49,440
The moment that you, and this is any relationship, this is in marriage counseling.

1023
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:56,120
Anytime there's a very genuine, contrite apology or confession and request for forgiveness,

1024
01:00:56,120 --> 01:01:00,960
you will quickly see a diffuser anger and hostility diffused.

1025
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:05,320
And I mean, a sincere, like the destroyer of apologies is the word, but, you know, you

1026
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:08,880
need to be able to apologize without using the word, but like I've, you can watch it

1027
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:10,720
where someone's like, you know, I'm really sorry I did that.

1028
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:12,800
I can't believe I did it.

1029
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:14,640
But and then it just ruins everything.

1030
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,440
The real sincere apology, I'm sorry I did that.

1031
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:18,440
Please forgive me.

1032
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:19,440
I feel terrible.

1033
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:21,240
You can like watch people's hostility be diffused.

1034
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:25,400
Well, if you get your kids together, no matter how angry they are and you're like, you know,

1035
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:26,400
daddy really blew it.

1036
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:27,640
I'm so sorry.

1037
01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:28,640
Please forgive me.

1038
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,640
You're going to have a bunch of kids that are like, Oh, I love you so much, daddy.

1039
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:32,640
You're so great.

1040
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:36,920
You know, they're going to just suddenly that that's what humility, humility does.

1041
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:38,560
And so pride does the opposite.

1042
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:43,120
If you make it and I've done this too, I was making excuses this one day and my daughter,

1043
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:48,160
I could just see how upset she was becoming at me because I wasn't accepting responsibility,

1044
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,920
you know, and she knows that that's what I tell my kids to do and then I'm not doing

1045
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:52,920
it.

1046
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:55,520
So that hypocrisy made them upset with me.

1047
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:56,520
Yeah.

1048
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:57,520
Yeah.

1049
01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:59,720
No, that's, and it goes back to that responsibility.

1050
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:02,600
We need to take that responsibility.

1051
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:09,400
Now speaking of these situations, maybe where I need to apologize and I feel uncomfortable

1052
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:16,240
or just something beyond that to just dealing with death, dealing with grief, just some

1053
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:19,600
type of hard trial in life.

1054
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,720
How do we prepare for that and handle those trials?

1055
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:23,720
Yeah.

1056
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:25,240
You know, that's a good question, Donnie.

1057
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:28,560
So I read one of the other books I read it's called enduring trials, God's way.

1058
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:29,560
That's kind of my brand.

1059
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:31,440
If you look at my books, you can tell God's way.

1060
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:35,880
Well, I kind of compare some Christians and I used like this sports analogy.

1061
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:37,080
I used to play football.

1062
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:39,960
I went to a small school and so I used to get the ball a lot.

1063
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:40,960
It doesn't mean that I was good.

1064
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:43,080
It just means I was at a small school at a bigger school.

1065
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:44,080
I probably wouldn't have.

1066
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:45,480
But anyway, I got the ball a lot.

1067
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:48,040
So I kind of learned there's sort of like two ways to be tackled.

1068
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:49,880
You know, you're, you're running down the field.

1069
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:54,200
You can tell you're about to get tackled and you prepare for it and, and then it might

1070
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:55,640
hurt, but it's not as big a deal.

1071
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:56,640
You pick yourself up.

1072
01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:58,320
The worst kind of tackle is to be blindsided.

1073
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:02,640
You don't see it coming and it just, it can be, you know, you pick yourself up pretty

1074
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:06,920
slowly from the field and even that's frequently when people get hurt.

1075
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:10,200
And the reason I mentioned that is I feel like some Christians are kind of like the

1076
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:11,400
player running down the field.

1077
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:12,400
They're prepared.

1078
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:14,240
They're ready because they spend time in God's word.

1079
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:15,240
They're in fellowship.

1080
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:21,120
They're, they're, um, so when a trial comes, they're kind of like the house that's built

1081
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:26,400
on Christ's teachings that's going to withstand those storms that are hitting the house, right?

1082
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:30,000
Matthew 7, 24 to 27, the parable of the two builders.

1083
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:33,880
There's another type of Christian who's kind of like that player running down the field.

1084
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:34,880
They're totally unprepared.

1085
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:36,320
They don't spend time in God's word.

1086
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:37,320
They're not prayerful.

1087
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:41,320
They may not even, they might not even be in a church or they don't attend church regularly

1088
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:42,880
or faithfully.

1089
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:47,760
And so that trial blinds sides them and they're totally unprepared for it.

1090
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,840
Now I've heard people say, Oh yeah, I went through this trial and it really, it really

1091
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:53,360
drew me toward Christ.

1092
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:56,640
You know, that's great, but that's not ideal.

1093
01:03:56,640 --> 01:04:02,600
Ideally you are preparing for that trial so that when it comes, it's tough.

1094
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:04,240
It's uncomfortable, but you're ready for it.

1095
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:06,800
You've been built up and strengthened in Christ.

1096
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:10,760
It's kind of like the difference between, you know, preparing for a test the day of

1097
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:12,120
or the weeks leading up to it.

1098
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:16,920
I mean, you can prepare the day of and do better and you can practice for that game,

1099
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:20,440
you know, the day before, but it's much better if you've been practicing for weeks.

1100
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:24,000
And so I tell Christians, if you want to be prepared for trials, you need to prepare for

1101
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:29,320
them when you're not in a trial by those spiritual disciplines being in fellowship.

1102
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:30,920
So you can go through it with your church family.

1103
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:35,200
You know that, that young lady I mentioned who has stage four cancer, well her and her

1104
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:38,520
husband have been super plugged into our church.

1105
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:39,520
Everyone loves them.

1106
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:43,640
They're surrounded by this church family when they go, they go through it and that's how

1107
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:44,640
it should be.

1108
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:46,760
But there's other people, they don't have a church family.

1109
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:47,760
They don't have anywhere to look.

1110
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:48,760
They don't know what to do.

1111
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,760
I get these emails from people whose marriages are falling apart.

1112
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:55,000
And one of the first things I say is, are you plugged into a local church?

1113
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,440
If they're not, I'm honestly kind of not surprised I'm married to suffering.

1114
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:02,120
I clearly have not been prioritizing Christ because that's about as foundational as you

1115
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:03,760
can get going to church, right?

1116
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:06,480
If people aren't doing that, then what are the chances that they're going to be in the

1117
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:07,480
word and in prayer?

1118
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:11,360
You know, so then I suspect their marriage could be, could be struggling.

1119
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:18,480
Yeah, that's a, that's a really good point that we all need to be aware of that it's

1120
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:23,880
not, oh, if I get a trial down the road, you will.

1121
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:26,680
We're going to face different types of trials.

1122
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:29,240
I'm not going to be harder than others, but, but you will.

1123
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:30,240
Yeah.

1124
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:35,360
Don't go in disaster mode and just have no idea what to do.

1125
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:40,960
If you're not, like you said, especially in a local body and really contributing your,

1126
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:45,240
your spiritual disciplines on a consistent basis, that doesn't mean the trial won't be

1127
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:48,200
hard, but you're going to have people around you.

1128
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:52,280
You're going to be in the word, be prayerful about it.

1129
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:53,960
And it's going to lessen that blow.

1130
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:58,160
I love that analogy of kind of the blindside tackle there.

1131
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:03,480
Wait, those of you that watch any type of football, you, you know what that's like that

1132
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:05,640
hit hard.

1133
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:10,640
And if you can help cushion that blow, and that's something with our current church family

1134
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:14,520
that again, I know it's not of all church bodies.

1135
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:21,160
There's always going to be problems, but we're so blessed and loved in this church.

1136
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:27,280
And we actually moved to this church about, it's been about three or so years ago.

1137
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:34,520
And that was one of the big things is we wanted to, I wanted to, as a, as a husband, of if

1138
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:39,640
something happened to me, and that was the trial for my wife, that she would have people

1139
01:06:39,640 --> 01:06:42,320
around her that would take care of her.

1140
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:48,600
I saw that as a really important role for me to care for her as a protector, even if

1141
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:49,960
I'm gone.

1142
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:56,200
And I love having that confidence of, I don't have to live in fear of, oh, what happens

1143
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:57,200
if I die or whatever?

1144
01:06:57,200 --> 01:07:02,400
And not, not that I think of that every day, but that really loosens you up that I know

1145
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:03,680
people would take her in.

1146
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:06,360
I know people would take my kids in.

1147
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:11,280
And that is so freeing when you have to face those type of trials.

1148
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:16,720
So I love that analogy of preparing for it and just knowing that it's going to happen.

1149
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:21,480
Well, being a spiritual leader in your family, even if you're not, you're not going to die.

1150
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:27,000
I mean, you went to the extreme and I appreciate your sensitivity toward that possibility.

1151
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:31,960
We had a funeral recently for this father of 12 kids and his wife was pregnant with

1152
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:34,720
their 12th and she had the child after he died.

1153
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:39,360
I mean, it was, but he'd been plugged into a church and he, so there is that possibility,

1154
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:40,360
all I'm saying.

1155
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:44,640
But even if you don't die, you still need to love your family by having them plugged

1156
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,280
into a church because you're going to have trials, you want your children to be around

1157
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,080
Christian friends and have a community.

1158
01:07:50,080 --> 01:07:53,520
And so that's definitely one way to love, love your family and lead them well as to

1159
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:57,640
have them plugged into a biblical gospel preaching church.

1160
01:07:57,640 --> 01:07:58,640
Absolutely.

1161
01:07:58,640 --> 01:07:59,640
Absolutely.

1162
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:04,600
Well, Scott, this has been a fantastic conversation.

1163
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:07,200
I think there's so much on it.

1164
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:11,760
I obviously am a little biased here that I think you should very listen to every episode

1165
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:13,720
just because you should listen to my show.

1166
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:17,680
I do think this is one that there's just so much weight to a lot of these topics.

1167
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:22,640
It probably wouldn't be good if you have some specific struggles to go back and hone in on

1168
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:23,840
some of these topics.

1169
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:28,000
But I know beforehand, before we got on, you said that you've got something special for

1170
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:29,000
all the listeners here.

1171
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:30,680
You got a free gift for them.

1172
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,360
So kind of speak to the audience about that.

1173
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:34,360
Yeah, thanks.

1174
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:35,360
Thanks, Johnny.

1175
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:38,520
And so I talked about marriage and amount in this and that's kind of one of my passions.

1176
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,120
I do marriage conferences more than anything else.

1177
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:44,800
I think I told you I was in Oklahoma in February.

1178
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:48,520
And so I care about marriages and I wrote a short book.

1179
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:54,040
It's called Seven Biblical Insights for Healthy, Joyful Christ-Centered Relationships.

1180
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:56,440
And you can get that for free from my website.

1181
01:08:56,440 --> 01:08:59,360
And so hopefully in the show notes, I'll send you some links you can put there, including

1182
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:01,040
a link to that book.

1183
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,040
And at my website, that's kind of the hub where you can find everything about me, my

1184
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:07,600
YouTube channel, my books, my speaking engagements.

1185
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:09,040
And so that's where you'd want it.

1186
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:12,520
You can also find a contact page there if you had any questions about any of the things

1187
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:14,800
that Johnny and I have talked about today.

1188
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:16,280
Then I'd love to hear from you.

1189
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:21,280
And even if money's tight, I'll give you a free electronic copy of one of my books on

1190
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:22,760
marriage or finances or trials.

1191
01:09:22,760 --> 01:09:25,040
Because my church takes care of me.

1192
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:26,280
I'm not doing the books for money.

1193
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:29,320
I just want to quit people and see them grow in Christ.

1194
01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:33,120
And so if you have any questions or issues, then it'd be a privilege to hear from you.

1195
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:34,400
And thanks for all you're doing, Johnny.

1196
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:35,800
Thanks for having me on the show.

1197
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:37,120
And I appreciate it this time with you.

1198
01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:40,240
And maybe the Lord will let us run into each other in person someday.

1199
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:41,240
Yeah, absolutely.

1200
01:09:41,240 --> 01:09:46,960
Well, yeah, I'll make sure to get all those links and stuff down there in the show notes

1201
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:48,640
so everybody can check those out.

1202
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:51,240
And yeah, it was great having you on.

1203
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:55,720
Again, I encourage everybody to go and visit the information for the guest.

1204
01:09:55,720 --> 01:10:02,000
But there's so much more that Scott has written more into those hundreds of hours of research

1205
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:03,240
and preaching.

1206
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:08,120
So I really appreciate you being on the show and sharing your knowledge with us.

1207
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:09,120
Thanks, Johnny.

1208
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:11,160
God bless you and God bless your listeners.

1209
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:12,160
Absolutely.

1210
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:16,840
Well, thank you everyone for listening to this episode of Faithfully Engaged.

1211
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:33,880
Continue to go out there and fight for truth.