Well, everyone, welcome back to another episode of Faithfully Engaged.
Today, my guest name is Debbie.
So Debbie, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?
Hi, everyone.
So my name is Debbie Bayston, and I am a crazy mom of four teenage boys.
So I think crazy mom of teenage boys is redundant.
And I am a former stay-at-home mom, turned school teacher, turned widow, turned entrepreneur,
and now I'm a remarried widow.
So it's been kind of a chaotic ride, but I am super excited to be here.
Yes.
Well, thank you for being here.
And yeah, let's kind of dig into just your story here.
I think the audience probably caught on to the widow part there.
Would you mind just kind of walking us through what that experience was like?
That's nothing that anybody plans on having happen to them much less earlier in your life.
So kind of just walk the audience through what happened.
Right.
I think grandma's in shawls while holding a cane is typically what a widow was in my
mind.
So to be widowed in my 30s was a very surreal experience.
It was 2012, and my husband actually went missing.
It turned into a 40-hour search where I could not get in touch with him while our four boys
and I were at his parents' house, which is four hours from our home at the coast.
And so at first I just thought, you know what, give him some time and space.
He's just being a little pretend bachelor.
Leave him alone.
You're being the nagging wife.
But as the hours kept ticking forward, I started to get worried.
And it was by the end of the day, I thought, okay, well, now it's just plain rude that
you're not responding to any of my text messages.
And now I'm worried.
So I started calling some neighbors to see if they had heard from Aaron, if they had seen
him, everybody's kind of shrugging their shoulders over the phone.
And so finally, one friend said, I'll go and look for him.
I don't see him anywhere at your house.
His car is not at the house, so he's not there.
And he actually found my husband's car parked behind the school where he worked.
So he was a PE teacher.
He was very involved at the school.
And so he found his car in the back of the property.
Now granted, this school, I live in the South, so this school is like on 100 acres of woods.
So it's kind of very natural out there.
And he said, well, I see the car.
I don't see your husband.
He said, this is freaking me out.
This is beyond me.
You're going to have to call the police, which I didn't want to do because at this point,
it just felt very bizarre.
And so I called the police and said, well, I'm filing a missing person report, but it's
probably nothing.
And they said, well, we'll go check it out.
And it's amazing how news spreads so quickly because a lot of friends and family gathered
behind the school where his car was and said, well, we'll start looking for him.
Where could he be?
Then the police showed up with search dogs and were having trouble picking up a scent
because too many people were there and had messed up the scent.
So at this point, I'm ready to head home.
I'm four hours away.
My mother-in-law and I got on the road at 1am, drove through the night.
I said, something's obviously not great.
Like this isn't a joke anymore.
And we got to where his car is parked behind the school.
And it felt like I was pulling into a movie set.
This is not real.
This is not happening.
This happens to other people on lifetime movies.
And the police began to question me.
Basically, I'm asking, do you think I killed my husband?
Is that what's going on?
Because I can assure you that I most definitely did not.
And they called people out of the woods.
They said, OK, everybody's got to stop looking because we're assuming bad things have happened.
You don't need to be in the woods looking for him anymore in this 100 acres of farmland
because they were getting ready to bring helicopters in with some infrared imaging to try to find
some body heat.
So they just needed everybody to pull away, bring in a rookie team and actually map out
the woods.
And once sunlight started coming up around 7am, Erin's sister said, you know what?
I'm going to go find my brother.
Bye.
And I was like, I hope they don't handcuff you.
I don't know how this stuff works.
She went into the woods and within two minutes I heard this piercing scream and knew she had
found her brother who was dead on the ground.
And I don't know when he died, but I know how he died.
He was working on a deer stand that he had hid in the middle of the woods to look for
deer and hunt for deer.
He had never caught a deer, but he was excited to set this space up and at some point had
fallen from a very high tree onto the ground and actually didn't die on impact from what
detectives and wilderness authorities would later tell me that he tried to kind of scoot
his way back down the trail he had macheteed.
I guess thinking I'm probably hurt.
I just need to go get seen by a doctor and at some point entered heaven.
So it was a very traumatic experience to hear this scream and have the police say, I'm really
sorry to tell you, your husband is deceased and it's like such a life changing moment
to say, no, this isn't happening.
This isn't real.
He'll just come back to life.
It's fine.
He's not actually in there.
Y'all are just punking me.
So that's kind of the how things happened.
Yeah.
So again, just kind of setting the scene for everybody, not that losing a spouse is ever
easy.
But like you said in the beginning, you're in your seventies, eighties, nineties.
Well, I come to expect that this is completely just out of the blue.
I'm in my thirties.
It's got four kids.
So it makes sense why that initial kind of that shock of, yeah, this isn't real.
This isn't actually what's going on.
Walk us through how that started to become real.
Obviously it did at some point.
How did you do that?
How did you work through that and not let this realness just overtake you?
Right.
And it's still surreal today, which is I'm like, when is the acceptance phase?
When do I get there?
Have I gotten there yet?
So I think there was little droplets of reality.
Seeing a body bag pulled out of the woods was like, wait a minute, there's a real person
in this bag and they gave me the option.
Do you want us to unzip the bag or not?
So I had to make a decision.
I chose not to based on, I said, what would you do if you were in my shoes?
So I did place my hand on what they told me was his chest and it did not rise and it did
not fall.
So that was like a moment of this is reality.
This is happening.
But I had four hours until our sons were brought from the beach back to our hometown to brace
myself of I'm trying to still get away from saying my husband is dead.
My husband is dead on repeat and convey this life shattering information to our sons who
at the time were four, four, seven and eight.
So I think that was another strike for reality, having to sit them all down and say, I don't
know how to make these words tumble out of my mouth.
I asked them to be quiet because they would interrupt me because they're children.
And I said, I'm really sorry.
I just started crying and I said, I'm so sorry, but your daddy is dead.
And he fell out of a tree and he didn't know this was going to happen.
And you will not see him again this side of heaven.
If we could have prevented it, we would have.
I'm here for you.
He's alive in heaven.
This is real.
And I'm so sorry.
I just kept saying, I'm so sorry and crying.
And I think they were so stunned.
You know, it just blindside you even at age four.
They understood the concept because after that, they never said, I think I hear daddy's
car pulling in the driveway or what time does daddy get home to it?
There was none of that ever again.
So they very quickly understood.
I think that was another moment of you're going to have to understand that this is not
a made up story.
But I think I initially was unraveling.
I was frozen, paralyzed, numb.
All of those shock symptoms, just feeling very primal emotions of pain I had never known
before of, I don't know how to both inhale and exhale.
I can do one, but I can't do both is how debilitating it felt.
And I really think that people were helpful, friends and loved ones, family, all of those
people were helpful.
I knew people were praying.
But I think ultimately it just takes time to just like keep telling yourself, no, he's
really dead.
He's really not coming back.
And you won't see his face.
And so I think once I actually got to see his face in a casket, which was horrific to
walk down this aisle when I was like, the last time my brother was by my side walking
down an aisle was our wedding.
And now here we are walking again side by side in a much different aisle.
And so seeing his body, this lacking temperature body, I think was so defining that I was like,
oh, you really were found.
The search really did end.
Your sister really did find you and you really aren't here.
This is all an empty shell.
And I think having to then tell it to the kids and show them added to that finality.
So I think it was incremental over time, but again, I'm still waiting for it to actually
be cemented as truth.
You know?
Yeah.
And I do think some of that kind of just bringing in the faith side of it.
I do think some of that, the way that God designed us is a really just a gracious thing
that it's not, well, your husband's dead and you just need to deal with all of it right
this very second.
The way that we're designed, we don't.
We don't take it all in right then because it's too much.
I think that's a really gracious way that God designed us to take it incrementally and
pieces instead of all at once because that's too much.
And kind of on that side of things, something we see often regardless of the death that's
involved, if it's a spouse or a child or whoever is something called survivor's guilt.
And tell us a little bit for one, what does survivor's guilt mean to you?
And what did that look like for you and your journey?
Yeah.
I didn't expect to feel that.
I think the first, the first twinge of like, oh my goodness, was before that trip where
he sent us off to the beach while he stayed home.
The days before that, I literally reminded my husband to go work on his dear stand.
I don't know if he would have done it otherwise, but I said, oh yeah, you're going to go work
on your dear stand, right?
And he was like, oh yeah, that's right.
And then later you're like, are you kidding me?
And as much as I wanted to let myself fall into that pit, I'm like, but I have to keep
going back to it's done.
It doesn't matter.
At this point, it's permanently over.
He's not coming back.
If you could, you can't rewrite history.
And so I think that was the initial of like, did I contribute to his demise?
Would he have forgotten?
I have no idea.
I'll never know the answer to that.
And so I've had to say it doesn't change the outcome today.
And I think what soon happened after that was I felt guilty the first time I smiled and
laughed.
It felt wrong.
It felt like, no, you need to wear black.
You need to look sullen.
Nothing should ever make you happy again.
You should be completely destroyed because that's a sign of respect for the dead.
And my brother is so funny.
It's like he can't help but be funny.
And so I think he wanted to lighten up some of those initial days where it was horrible,
writing an obituary, picking out a casket, these horrible activities that he would show
me funny videos.
But it was this push pull of like, oh, it's so funny.
And yet like, no, no, no, not yet.
Not you should wait a year before you break a smile.
And so it was interesting to kind of have this bizarre unexpected emotion, even cleaning
out his closet, which I waited months to do.
It felt wrong.
Like, I feel guilty.
Like, oh, you're moving on.
I took off my wedding ring and oh, you're just moving on.
Like you're over it.
You're done.
You know, it was like a six week thing.
And like, I'm totally fine now.
I felt like guilty for making these decisions as if I wasn't wallowing in it enough.
And friends were so loving to say, where's the rulebook?
Where's the guide for widows that you have to follow the 12 step program?
You know, there's no rules.
You're going to grieve how you want to grieve.
And the world does keep spinning and things will be happy and funny.
And you will have those little moments where you are having basically a slowly letting go
because our marriage didn't have a future as much as I wish it had.
It wasn't like a divorce.
So I think those were some examples.
And then it went to another level.
When I did start liking my now second husband, it was by everyone's admission too fast.
Everyone said, oh, well, she's lonely.
This is, you know, a rebound as a pacifier.
That was another extremely guilt invoking moment because I felt like a mistress.
I felt like I was cheating on my husband by hugging someone else.
I was like, this is wrong.
No one can know this is happening.
I had been married for 11 years and I had trained myself.
You don't look at other men.
Period.
It's always eyes down out of respect and faithfulness.
I was like, oh, I don't stare at men.
I don't like dream about them.
I'm like, no, eyes down because I have one person that I'm satisfied with.
So to then be able to look side to side at anybody I wanted to felt very wrong, very
weird.
And so it was like that for a long amount of time, just feeling like I was breaking unwritten
rules, I guess.
Yeah.
No, there's a lot in there.
And first off, I wanted to say, I'm really glad that you mentioned the smiling part, the
laughing part.
I see this all the time with different clients that I've worked with that that's really
difficult.
I lost my spouse.
I lost my kid.
I lost my best friend.
I can't have fun.
I can't enjoy my life.
How can I?
I lost this person I love.
That's a really hard thing.
And I'm glad that you mentioned that because I bet you there's probably somebody listening
to this that's experienced something similar or will experience something similar.
So it's very important to catch that early and to allow yourself to enjoy life and something
I normally ask people that have lost somebody is, okay, let's just imagine that they could
talk to you right this second.
What would they be telling you?
Would they be telling you, no, you need to be solemn?
Or would they say, go, go laugh, go have fun?
So that's a big piece there.
On the dating aspect too, you're really faced a extremely unique spot here and the sense
that not that older widows can't date or marry when they're loose somebody in their 60s or
70s or whatever they can, but you had a lot of life left to live, at least hopefully at
that point.
So that's, it's a good thing that initial piece of that guilt just because you're training
that you had earlier when you were married.
That's great.
I think women keeping their eyes down, definitely with men, same thing.
I don't look for other women like I'm married.
I don't need to look for other women, but that fundamentally changes.
It's till death do us part.
They weren't cheating that there's no marriage at that point.
And that's another one of those kind of trinkets of reality setting in there.
So with that, you're starting to see this at the time, somebody that you're thinking
about dating and now you're married.
How did you, how did you work through that guilt?
I feel like I'm cheating on my husband.
Right.
How did you work through that?
Yeah, and it was such a bizarre situation because my now husband, Jason, which was the
first and last person I dated after losing my husband was actually a friend of my husband.
And so I, I had known Jason for 20 years.
We had done life together in church, small group.
And when everyone was in the woods looking for Aaron, it was Jason and another friend
they heard the police saying, you know, everybody out of the woods, no, no, no.
And they're like, no, we're going to find our friend.
You're not going to tell us what to do.
We're going to find him because if he's hurt, then there's some urgency.
We need to get him help.
And so he scoured a hundred acre woods for, I don't know, six, seven, eight hours straight
without stopping.
So I knew the caliber of his character.
I knew who he was.
I knew how he was.
I knew he wasn't a serial killer, you know, because you never know what people are like
these days.
So we actually reconnected and it felt weird because I'm like, you're my husband's friend.
And in his mind, he's thinking, you're my friend's wife.
And so it was, it was both of us having our own separate inner turmoil of like, this is
not real.
This is, this is creepy.
Like, can this be God's plan because it's so bizarre, but yet at the same time, I know
people had said little prayers of, oh, Lord, help her to find someone in the future.
Even my own mother-in-law within days said, you don't need our permission, but you, you
can and should love again.
It's really okay.
Like she was very kind and they actually welcomed Jason as if he was family, which was insane
that my in-laws are treating their daughter-in-laws new boyfriend as family.
It was just the best of the worst really.
It was the best that it could possibly be given the circumstances.
And so I think at the beginning, I would cry on Jason's shoulder saying, I miss Aaron,
I miss my husband.
And he would say, I miss my friend.
And so I could cry and say, you know, over time, I'm like, I really like you, but that
means I love two men.
And he was like, yeah, it would be weird if you didn't.
And so he was always gracious, like, do you want space?
Do you want to talk about Aaron?
And when he would come over and bring the five of us dinner, he would share stories with
my sons about, let me tell you about a time I went camping with your dad stories.
I would never know and that he could share.
And so I think Jason has such a, a gentle personality.
I've been blessed to marry two amazing, godly men.
That's just the gift of God because it has nothing to do with me.
But I think it again, just kind of like the reality piece, it just took time to process.
This is okay.
This is allowed.
You know, it's weird.
It's not God's perfect design.
Let's be honest.
This is after a fallen world.
This is how things sometimes pan out.
But I think it over time became less weird, but we definitely didn't sit together at church,
didn't let the kids know what was going.
It was like months where it was like all under the radar because I was under, in my mind,
a magnifying glass.
People were like, how do widows live?
Does she look sad enough this Sunday?
You know, and I was like, they're going to say it's too soon and too fast.
But you guys are the ones praying for me to find love again.
And lo and behold, God answers prayers, but I think people felt, well, this is too fast
and too serious.
And I'm like, well, here we are about to come up on our ninth wedding anniversary.
Like I'm pretty sure it was God ordained.
You know, it's just a bizarre coming together that no one would have picked out for me.
And I even had, unfortunately, widowed friends.
I've met a lot of young widows, which has been a mixed blessing, but even they kind
of, there were some jabs of like, must be nice to, you know, maybe I should have gone
through my husband's phone to find, see if there was anybody single.
And I'm like, that is not what I did.
Wow.
So even widows can say some crazy things.
Yeah.
You know, when you're talking through this, I'm thinking through, you know, I'm thinking
through one thing, one personal thing that I don't want the audience to think this is
a morbid thing I do with my wife all of the time.
But we have had some discussions of, hey, what if something did happen to me?
I've got, I've got two young kids out in the world right now and we've got another one
on the way.
So if something were to happen, my wife would kind of be like you left with little ones there.
And again, this is not a dinner room topic we have every day, but I do think it's important
that like, hey, if that happens, I want you to be well, even if I am gone.
And we've had these talks of where I have actually encouraged her that no, I really
do think you should date that you should potentially look at that knowing that incredibly hard
situation.
I think in part because of those little kids and the need for just some leadership and
things like that.
And I know that's a very touchy subject and other women might decide to not do that or
other men on the other hand, if they have a wife that passes away.
But there is some biblical evidence of that where I'm blanking on which book the Bible
is, it's Paul talking of saying that, hey, widows that have family help that they don't
necessarily need all the help that the church can provide them there.
And also if they can remarry, that can be good.
So now that you're on the other side, you have had this nine year marriage of happiness
on the other side, not saying that we're going to have an iron fist, you have to do it this
way or this other way.
Do you think by and large it is a good idea for younger widows to remarry or would you
say it's just a completely depends on the situation?
I do think it depends.
I think as I met several, we called ourselves widows with kiddos, a lot of widows my age.
And before I even was telling them anything, because I didn't want to even be judged in
that community, some of them said I am very much content being alone.
And I don't want all that comes with a marriage because I mean, there was a stretch of time
where I was like, I consult with no one, I compromise zero.
Now granted, I'm doing all this stuff, but I also don't have any marital fights.
So that's a plus.
And so some of them were kind of like, once was enough, I'm really okay.
Maybe they'll find someone in the future, maybe they won't.
So if some of them I have noticed have remarried, some of them have even gone on to have children
together, but I do think it is so different, you know, whatever God's plan looks like.
And I certainly was not planning.
I told my mother-in-law and meant your son was enough love for a lifetime.
And I also thought, I mean, I'm in my 30s with a litter of children.
Do once this package, this is like the dent and scratch package in the back of the store.
Get a 20 year old without kids who's got like a fresh clean slate.
But like you mentioned about the Bible, I often think about the story of Ruth and Boaz,
not that I'm awesome like Ruth, but how Jason very much was this Boaz of treating me with
integrity instead of like, you poor little widow, you know, like, I'll fix everything
instead, you know, just as Boaz would tell Ruth, you know, still gleaned from the outer
edges of the fields.
Like, yeah, you need to get yourself fed and grab these items on.
He still was doing that, just knowing like, I know that you're a functional woman and
mom, I'm not here to be a rescuer.
But in so many ways, he was that redeeming quality that is a reflection of God ultimately.
So it, you know, it's been such a marvel at how kind and compassionate God is.
But I don't know if it's for everybody, you know, I think everybody's got such a different
purpose, you know, from God.
Sure.
Yeah, it's, I tend to agree with you that there are different circumstances.
Actually have some, of course, they're not quite your example, because they're older.
But my grandma, my, my grandpa, who's actually my, my namesake, he passed away before I was
born and my granny was like in her fifties, never has really had a desire to remarry.
And then my father-in-law, my mother-in-law just passed away last year, had kind of a
long bout with cancer.
And of course, it's just been a year and it could things change.
I mean, it could, but goodness, I would put a lot of money that he probably wouldn't get
remarry to just based off, based off of who he is.
But again, it is a little bit different when you're a little bit older, you've got kids
and grandkids taking care of each other.
You're in your thirties with, yeah, all these little ones.
Again, it does kind of change things up a little bit.
But I think it speaks to what you've mentioned before of having these people around you,
friends, family, church, to not just segregate into yourself and try to figure it all out
on your own.
You're dealing with grief and raising little ones.
That's a lot.
That definitely does not need to just be only on your shoulders.
You need to have some other people in your camp for sure.
Yeah.
I had never seen the body of Christ in action like I did in those initial months.
I mean, I'm talking strangers would come up to me in the store.
I don't know that because this was all over the news because it's like, oh, a school teacher,
he's well known in the community and it happened on school property.
So it's like a whole thing in the papers and stuff.
And so people were very kind, would come up to me at baseball games and people would just
say, I know who you are and I have prayed for your family.
I'm like, that's the best gift you can ever give anybody is to pray for them.
That's a selfless act where you get nothing in return.
And so that's when I really saw, I'm like, oh, this is what the Bible means about the
hands and the feet because I've read about it.
I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, head, shoulders, knees and toes.
It means nothing to me.
And then I was like, this is it.
This is what kept us afloat, obviously through God.
And it's like people were sending gift cards so that we could eat because I had no interest
in cooking or people said, we're going to get your house cleaned.
We will take your kids to play miniature golf.
We will bring them back in two hours.
They will be okay.
We will feed them.
They will be safe.
Use this time however you want.
And you've got two hours go.
So the way that people showed up, I was like, wow, this is how God uses people because if
you don't have people, I don't know how you make it.
And if you don't have faith, I also don't know how you make it.
So you're absolutely right.
That's something that a few other guest stuff out on the show and just people in my personal
life that we've talked about, particularly as Christians, we have a, yeah, this different
kind of worldview.
And not that we're happy that bad things happen, but we just kind of know that they will.
Now not everyone's going to lose a spouse like you did at a young age, but we're all
going to have to deal with some form of trial.
That's, you mentioned we live in a world that has been tainted by sin.
So therefore it's not a perfect world.
And that's something that's important for all the listeners, not that, hey, you're going
to lose a spouse, but you're going to have something happen at some point.
That's going to be hard.
So let's not wait for disaster, distract and then find a community of believers.
Not, not that you can't, that you certainly can afterwards, but how much sweeter and better
it is for us.
If I already have some things in place and then when disaster strikes, I don't even have
to do anything.
Like you said, the hands and feet, they, they come and just do it.
That's what the church is called to do in those situations.
So I think that's great.
And that speaks volumes of, of your late husband, that he helped lead your family in a way that
he served you in that way, even after he was gone.
That's, that's when I'm having these conversations with my wife, getting not to obsess over it,
but I want to do that same thing.
I want my family to be in a place to where if something did happen to me, they're not
left in a state of shock and have no idea what to do.
No, they've got friends and family and church family to be there to take that up.
So if you're a listener and, and particularly if you're a listener that has any type of
Christian faith and you're not plugged in the church, it's the time to do it now.
That's not wait for disaster to strike because it, it will, like Debbie's saying, will come
massively and handy when they, when you need them, you don't even have to ask there.
They're just right there.
Yeah, that's so true.
It really is.
And I, and I think, you know, it's some people may be through these experiences, then start
a walk with the Lord.
That's amazing, wonderful.
I think another way I didn't implode is I was already anchored to God as my rock.
And so the storm was going to come, but I may have been tossed around and beat up a little
bit, but I was still anchored into the rock, which to me was way better, maybe easier.
I don't know if that's the right description, but it's compared to trying to build a foundation
as the storm is coming down.
That seems much harder.
Like how do I make this a rock when it kind of feels like sand?
So I am grateful like to not have waited to love the Lord.
It obviously, this devastation deepened my relationship with the Lord, but yeah, it's
amazing how he uses others to bless us so much.
And it makes me want to be a blessing to others.
How can I then, you know, if we've had hard times, I think it makes us more compassionate.
How can we then help others who are in need as well?
I've heard you reference this a few times with some of the other, other widows, especially
I like the widows with kiddos.
I haven't heard that phrase before, but I know some of that's just a kind of a continuity
that, you know, there's no way I could ever understand what, what you'd gone through.
I can hear you and somewhat empathize, but I've never experienced anything like that.
And other widows certainly, certainly can.
So have you seen yourself kind of either go out of your way to impact specifically widows?
Or do you see yourself more so with that service of not so much just finding with other widows,
but just looking for people that are hurting to try to impact them?
Do, do you kind of see yourself doing anything like that?
Yeah, I did start a little Facebook group for widow support.
It's been so interesting to have this peak into so many widows realities because some
of them have faced a lot of backlash either from mostly from the in-laws.
They would guilt them.
How dare you go on a date with somebody or it just became very, I don't know, I think
death brings out weirdness in people.
And so I saw so many families doing this downward spiral and they're like, people are wanting
me to move and my husband just passed away a month ago.
So family demands become bizarre and actually really unkind, which again, I didn't experience,
but so many women have gone through some, it's like people would intensify the pain.
And my whole goal in creating this group is to say, this is a safe space.
We all get each other because I had people say, can I be in your group just to understand?
No, no, no, you can't be in our group.
I'm so sorry.
But just a safe place, a haven to say you can bring that icky stuff.
You can vent about your sister-in-law who's making you crazy or how your family wants
you to move or they're trying to take your rings from you.
Now that your husband's gone or giving you a hard time for wanting to move forward with
love.
So I think that's been really exciting.
Some of them have remarried.
Some do not want to for whatever reason, both are great.
So it's something, I don't know that that is a huge impact.
I do, I think I'm hoping that through this loss that I do become a kinder, more encouraging
follower of Jesus that even now that I was at the time I was a stay at home mom and was
like, I got to pay light bills.
How do you pay light bills around here?
Because I didn't want to go back to the classroom being a teacher.
I made my own children, had four kids in four years.
I was like, I don't even like kids.
Let's not go back to that.
Kids are horrible.
So I was like, I'm going to do something with adults, which ended up being these two online
fitness businesses.
And I think over time what I've grown to see is this is a way for me to encourage all
kinds of women.
Some of them widowed, some divorced, some divorced remarried, different dynamics.
But I'm like, if I can infuse as much encouragement into their lives, if I can speak about the
Lord and His amazing sweet love, I'm like, then this is great.
So I would love to help widows as much as I can, but even a bigger picture of just how
can I pour into women and just be a blessing, whatever that looks like.
Yeah.
No, I think that's great.
And as you were saying this, something popped in my head that I hadn't considered asking
you before.
But when somebody goes through something very difficult, losing the spouses right up there,
you'll have people like that kind person that's trying to get into your group.
I think that they probably have good intentions.
I want to understand other people, but yeah, that's not the time or place there.
And I know oftentimes in that eagerness to try to help, to try to fix things for people,
that you might say or do something that's really not helpful at all.
And especially right when it's fresh at the funeral.
I'm thinking of things like, oh, you'll get over it or something like that.
Not necessarily intentionally being mean, but it doesn't come across very well through
your experience or some of the stories of other women that you've heard go through this.
Do you kind of have any things to tell the audience like, yeah, don't do that to somebody
that's grieving?
Yeah.
I think the biggest thing that comes to mind is I had so many women want to be my friend.
And I could not understand that.
So many people wanted to have coffee and lunch with me and I could not comprehend why.
We're acquaintances.
I have never had coffee and lunch with you.
I don't even remember your last name.
What was, I think people feel helpless.
What can I do?
Can I just bring you a baked ziti?
That's fine.
But to say, I would like to subtract from the energy and capacity you have by making
you go out to eat with an acquaintance and zap your energy and zap your time so that
we can now form a connection.
That was very hard for me.
I tried to be very gracious.
I said yes and thought, why did I say yes?
Why are we at this coffee shop for two hours?
I don't want to be here.
I want to be on my bed crying.
That's all I have a bandwidth to do.
So I think whatever your level of friendship is before a death happens, keep it at that
level.
Don't, I would say start a new friendship just because they died.
I don't know.
I still don't understand why that was.
Maybe just send a card or flowers or bring a meal, drop it, and leave.
That was another problem as people would bring meals and stay 45 minutes.
And I'm like, in this 45 minutes, my energy is zapped.
The food is cold.
And my kids just put another hole in the wall because they've been unsupervised in the other
room for 45 minutes.
So I had to stop all the meals.
I was like, help isn't always help.
And I get it, we all are like, just let me do something.
Let me do something.
Well, you can just pray.
Just stay home and pray.
And what really meant the most is when people would wait six months to send a card.
I read that card.
The cards in the first six days, words on a page, don't know what they said.
But it's six months when someone would send flowers.
Amazing.
So if you know someone who passes away, mark your calendar for six months and then tell
them your spouse is remembered.
You are still prayed for.
You are cared for in whatever ways.
I've had one friend specifically to do that consistently.
That's what speaks volumes instead of the initial rush.
I think that's helpful.
I tried to sift through people's comments of he's in a better place and rest in peace.
I mean, some of that was some of his students who came to a funeral, which that may have
been their first funeral.
They didn't know what to say.
Sure.
But other widows actually, one widow at the funeral said, you need to get to the Social
Security Office.
And I said, like right now, like in my black dress, should I go now?
And she was like, no, but it's really important.
And I was like, this is not really the time and place to do this.
Maybe not today.
Maybe message me tomorrow.
I had another widow because my husband died in August, which meant October came.
And she had suggested that I dress as a black widow for Halloween for a costume.
That was baffling to me.
So there's always these outlier comments that you're like, just take it with a grain of
salt.
They're trying to be nice.
But I think just to be present and it's OK to sit quietly, I think people want to fill
the space with words.
Some of the most moving things were people just sitting next to me saying nothing, not
a single word.
It ministered to me in a way that words couldn't.
So I think, you know, just to know you don't have to have all the right answers or fix
it, but just to be present with whatever level of friendship you have.
So that's probably a long answer to a short question.
No, I think that's a that's a very insightful answer, though, that, you know, I'm sitting
here too of experiencing doing counseling sessions with people and trying to help them.
Yeah, not feel like they do have to come in and fix it.
But I really like how you put that of where your relationship is.
Keep it to that same level of intensity.
Do something.
Give card prayer.
What send a card.
And I love that the six months later, that is that's fantastic advice because, yeah,
six months from now, it's not like you got over it.
It's not like it went away.
But that's not at the forefront of people's minds.
So maybe, yeah, if you're listening and you want to help somebody that's gone through
something difficult, think outside the box a little bit.
But yeah, really see what's what's going to be happening down the road.
And how can I help in a way that I'm not injecting myself in there?
I'm thinking through this isn't a grief situation, but talking about with meals of when when our
kiddos have been born and church members have dropped food off.
Yeah, some of the best ones is just literally dropped it on the front porch.
Have a good one.
And they're out of there.
And that's just that's really, really kind when people do that because they're not, I
don't think the people that stay there for 45 minutes were intending to be rude.
But you are injecting yourself into the process and it's not about you.
It's about helping the person that's that's hurting in that moment.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's well said.
Well said.
Drop and go.
Yeah.
And some of this too kind of bringing the faith component in is I could be I could have
been at Debbie's door whenever that happened and said the exact perfect words, did the
perfect prayer, perfect meal, perfect everything.
Guess what Debbie's still going to be hurting.
Like there's nothing any individual can do to take away that pain.
But as believers, we know that God can do much more.
So I love what you mentioned with prayer is we downgrade prayer to like, yeah, I mean,
it's kind of formality.
Nice thing to do.
No, like it's incredible.
You have been impacted by prayer by people that you will never know what they prayed
or who prayed.
Don't underestimate that.
And it's great if you come back and say, Hey, I've been praying for you, but maybe you
don't even say that.
Just put that little prayer you pray for once a week for one minute or something.
Don't downgrade that because that's a really big deal because only God can really help
show that love to somebody that's hurting and grieving.
It doesn't matter if we have the best gift ever.
We can't replace that.
That's so true.
It really, it really is that the prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
And I think before Aaron passed away, I probably was really rushing my prayer time.
I'm distracted while reading my Bible.
It's all like going through the motions a little bit robotic and not much depth.
I'm sad to say.
And so for him to say, Listen, you're really hardheaded.
So I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to bring the pain for you to be what I designed
you to be.
And I'm like, okay.
And he's like, I'm going to, I'm going to have some cushioning along the way with people
helping and praying.
But I think it is a profound way to help people.
And I really do.
He's very good to use his people.
Yeah.
So really just, if, if those of you that are listening, if you do a prayer journal or something,
yeah, jot some of those things down, put it in the phone.
If somebody just lost their spouse, their kid, whatever, putting your phone six months
from that day, just like Debbie said, and do it, say your prayer, send a card, say,
Hey, I've been thinking about you.
I've been praying for you.
I about guarantee you that's your, like you said, you're going to get better response than
a week after that death.
Hey, let's go to coffee.
And we've never even really talked to each other.
Probably not going to be the most helpful thing to do.
Yes, exactly.
Great.
Well, Debbie, I, I think that the, the audience is probably has really enjoyed your story,
especially those of you, if you've lost anybody, probably really resonate with you there.
I know you also have some of your, your fitness business and everything like that.
So people that have been listening to this, how can they connect with you after listening
to the show?
Sure.
So if I write some on my grief journey and Faye, that a really long website, which is
Debbie Wilkins based in.com.
That's a mouthful.
And then I have two of these health businesses.
One is my mom's sanity.com.
So we're called mom's sanity because all moms are crazy and need sanity.
So we focus on motherhood, faith, fitness and nutrition.
Really the core of it is the faith piece.
You know, it's like, let's glorify God by taking care of ourselves so that we can take
care of our families.
And then my other fitness and nutrition businesses fit with Deb.com.
So it's all about helping busy women to really feel good, just feel good amidst the crazy
schedules and the chaos of every day just to do little simple tweaks to take care of
yourself.
So I'd love to connect.
Yeah.
And I will put all of that stuff down in there.
Maybe at a future date, we can talk more just strictly on the fitness, mental health, spiritual
side, I think greatly gets undervalued of how your physical health impacts everything
else.
So definitely connect with her on that.
And yeah, it was absolutely great getting to hear your story.
I know a very painful story, but one that's still filled with a lot of joy.
So thanks again for sharing that with us.
Well, thank you for letting me be here.
It's such a huge blessing.
So I really appreciate it.
Absolutely.
All right.
Well, and everyone that's listening to the show, I appreciate your support and listening
again and we'll catch you on the next episode.
You guys take care.