1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:13,640 Well, everyone, welcome back to another episode of Faithfully Engaged. 2 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,280 Today, my guest name is Debbie. 3 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,560 So Debbie, why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself? 4 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:21,680 Hi, everyone. 5 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:27,360 So my name is Debbie Bayston, and I am a crazy mom of four teenage boys. 6 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:32,600 So I think crazy mom of teenage boys is redundant. 7 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:40,440 And I am a former stay-at-home mom, turned school teacher, turned widow, turned entrepreneur, 8 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,240 and now I'm a remarried widow. 9 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:48,440 So it's been kind of a chaotic ride, but I am super excited to be here. 10 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:49,440 Yes. 11 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,680 Well, thank you for being here. 12 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:56,840 And yeah, let's kind of dig into just your story here. 13 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:03,000 I think the audience probably caught on to the widow part there. 14 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,720 Would you mind just kind of walking us through what that experience was like? 15 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:13,720 That's nothing that anybody plans on having happen to them much less earlier in your life. 16 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,120 So kind of just walk the audience through what happened. 17 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:18,120 Right. 18 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:24,560 I think grandma's in shawls while holding a cane is typically what a widow was in my 19 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:25,560 mind. 20 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:31,080 So to be widowed in my 30s was a very surreal experience. 21 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:36,640 It was 2012, and my husband actually went missing. 22 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:43,160 It turned into a 40-hour search where I could not get in touch with him while our four boys 23 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:50,120 and I were at his parents' house, which is four hours from our home at the coast. 24 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,880 And so at first I just thought, you know what, give him some time and space. 25 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,160 He's just being a little pretend bachelor. 26 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:58,160 Leave him alone. 27 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,160 You're being the nagging wife. 28 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:04,880 But as the hours kept ticking forward, I started to get worried. 29 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:08,800 And it was by the end of the day, I thought, okay, well, now it's just plain rude that 30 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,600 you're not responding to any of my text messages. 31 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,120 And now I'm worried. 32 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:18,400 So I started calling some neighbors to see if they had heard from Aaron, if they had seen 33 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,680 him, everybody's kind of shrugging their shoulders over the phone. 34 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,960 And so finally, one friend said, I'll go and look for him. 35 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,200 I don't see him anywhere at your house. 36 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,320 His car is not at the house, so he's not there. 37 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:36,200 And he actually found my husband's car parked behind the school where he worked. 38 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:37,960 So he was a PE teacher. 39 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:39,880 He was very involved at the school. 40 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,600 And so he found his car in the back of the property. 41 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:51,360 Now granted, this school, I live in the South, so this school is like on 100 acres of woods. 42 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,800 So it's kind of very natural out there. 43 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:55,280 And he said, well, I see the car. 44 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:56,680 I don't see your husband. 45 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,080 He said, this is freaking me out. 46 00:02:58,080 --> 00:02:59,600 This is beyond me. 47 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,360 You're going to have to call the police, which I didn't want to do because at this point, 48 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,160 it just felt very bizarre. 49 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,520 And so I called the police and said, well, I'm filing a missing person report, but it's 50 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:11,840 probably nothing. 51 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:13,560 And they said, well, we'll go check it out. 52 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:19,680 And it's amazing how news spreads so quickly because a lot of friends and family gathered 53 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,840 behind the school where his car was and said, well, we'll start looking for him. 54 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,560 Where could he be? 55 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:31,720 Then the police showed up with search dogs and were having trouble picking up a scent 56 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,120 because too many people were there and had messed up the scent. 57 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,240 So at this point, I'm ready to head home. 58 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,520 I'm four hours away. 59 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,320 My mother-in-law and I got on the road at 1am, drove through the night. 60 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,280 I said, something's obviously not great. 61 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,960 Like this isn't a joke anymore. 62 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,080 And we got to where his car is parked behind the school. 63 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,840 And it felt like I was pulling into a movie set. 64 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:57,840 This is not real. 65 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:58,840 This is not happening. 66 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,880 This happens to other people on lifetime movies. 67 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,200 And the police began to question me. 68 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,760 Basically, I'm asking, do you think I killed my husband? 69 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:10,440 Is that what's going on? 70 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,440 Because I can assure you that I most definitely did not. 71 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,880 And they called people out of the woods. 72 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,680 They said, OK, everybody's got to stop looking because we're assuming bad things have happened. 73 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:27,800 You don't need to be in the woods looking for him anymore in this 100 acres of farmland 74 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:33,520 because they were getting ready to bring helicopters in with some infrared imaging to try to find 75 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:34,880 some body heat. 76 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:39,760 So they just needed everybody to pull away, bring in a rookie team and actually map out 77 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,600 the woods. 78 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:46,680 And once sunlight started coming up around 7am, Erin's sister said, you know what? 79 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,360 I'm going to go find my brother. 80 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:49,360 Bye. 81 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,280 And I was like, I hope they don't handcuff you. 82 00:04:51,280 --> 00:04:53,040 I don't know how this stuff works. 83 00:04:53,040 --> 00:05:00,160 She went into the woods and within two minutes I heard this piercing scream and knew she had 84 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,600 found her brother who was dead on the ground. 85 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,120 And I don't know when he died, but I know how he died. 86 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:13,800 He was working on a deer stand that he had hid in the middle of the woods to look for 87 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:15,200 deer and hunt for deer. 88 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:20,640 He had never caught a deer, but he was excited to set this space up and at some point had 89 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:29,480 fallen from a very high tree onto the ground and actually didn't die on impact from what 90 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:34,680 detectives and wilderness authorities would later tell me that he tried to kind of scoot 91 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,200 his way back down the trail he had macheteed. 92 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,040 I guess thinking I'm probably hurt. 93 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:45,840 I just need to go get seen by a doctor and at some point entered heaven. 94 00:05:45,840 --> 00:05:51,760 So it was a very traumatic experience to hear this scream and have the police say, I'm really 95 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:58,560 sorry to tell you, your husband is deceased and it's like such a life changing moment 96 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,240 to say, no, this isn't happening. 97 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:02,240 This isn't real. 98 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,080 He'll just come back to life. 99 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:05,080 It's fine. 100 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:06,080 He's not actually in there. 101 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:07,320 Y'all are just punking me. 102 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,040 So that's kind of the how things happened. 103 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,280 Yeah. 104 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:19,960 So again, just kind of setting the scene for everybody, not that losing a spouse is ever 105 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:20,960 easy. 106 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:26,120 But like you said in the beginning, you're in your seventies, eighties, nineties. 107 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:31,880 Well, I come to expect that this is completely just out of the blue. 108 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:32,880 I'm in my thirties. 109 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:34,800 It's got four kids. 110 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:40,840 So it makes sense why that initial kind of that shock of, yeah, this isn't real. 111 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:44,600 This isn't actually what's going on. 112 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,600 Walk us through how that started to become real. 113 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,440 Obviously it did at some point. 114 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:51,440 How did you do that? 115 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:56,720 How did you work through that and not let this realness just overtake you? 116 00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:57,720 Right. 117 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:03,400 And it's still surreal today, which is I'm like, when is the acceptance phase? 118 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,000 When do I get there? 119 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,200 Have I gotten there yet? 120 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:12,160 So I think there was little droplets of reality. 121 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:19,040 Seeing a body bag pulled out of the woods was like, wait a minute, there's a real person 122 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,200 in this bag and they gave me the option. 123 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,760 Do you want us to unzip the bag or not? 124 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,680 So I had to make a decision. 125 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,960 I chose not to based on, I said, what would you do if you were in my shoes? 126 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:37,880 So I did place my hand on what they told me was his chest and it did not rise and it did 127 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:38,880 not fall. 128 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,760 So that was like a moment of this is reality. 129 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:44,680 This is happening. 130 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:52,640 But I had four hours until our sons were brought from the beach back to our hometown to brace 131 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:57,240 myself of I'm trying to still get away from saying my husband is dead. 132 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:03,280 My husband is dead on repeat and convey this life shattering information to our sons who 133 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,920 at the time were four, four, seven and eight. 134 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:14,520 So I think that was another strike for reality, having to sit them all down and say, I don't 135 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:18,560 know how to make these words tumble out of my mouth. 136 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:23,120 I asked them to be quiet because they would interrupt me because they're children. 137 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:24,640 And I said, I'm really sorry. 138 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:29,120 I just started crying and I said, I'm so sorry, but your daddy is dead. 139 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,520 And he fell out of a tree and he didn't know this was going to happen. 140 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,920 And you will not see him again this side of heaven. 141 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,760 If we could have prevented it, we would have. 142 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,160 I'm here for you. 143 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,160 He's alive in heaven. 144 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:43,280 This is real. 145 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:44,280 And I'm so sorry. 146 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,440 I just kept saying, I'm so sorry and crying. 147 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,920 And I think they were so stunned. 148 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,440 You know, it just blindside you even at age four. 149 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:57,400 They understood the concept because after that, they never said, I think I hear daddy's 150 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,160 car pulling in the driveway or what time does daddy get home to it? 151 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:03,160 There was none of that ever again. 152 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:04,760 So they very quickly understood. 153 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:10,680 I think that was another moment of you're going to have to understand that this is not 154 00:09:10,680 --> 00:09:12,600 a made up story. 155 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,600 But I think I initially was unraveling. 156 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,920 I was frozen, paralyzed, numb. 157 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:26,480 All of those shock symptoms, just feeling very primal emotions of pain I had never known 158 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,720 before of, I don't know how to both inhale and exhale. 159 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:35,280 I can do one, but I can't do both is how debilitating it felt. 160 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:40,120 And I really think that people were helpful, friends and loved ones, family, all of those 161 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:41,280 people were helpful. 162 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,680 I knew people were praying. 163 00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:50,360 But I think ultimately it just takes time to just like keep telling yourself, no, he's 164 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:51,440 really dead. 165 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,800 He's really not coming back. 166 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,600 And you won't see his face. 167 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:04,360 And so I think once I actually got to see his face in a casket, which was horrific to 168 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:09,480 walk down this aisle when I was like, the last time my brother was by my side walking 169 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,560 down an aisle was our wedding. 170 00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:17,720 And now here we are walking again side by side in a much different aisle. 171 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:26,360 And so seeing his body, this lacking temperature body, I think was so defining that I was like, 172 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,240 oh, you really were found. 173 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,160 The search really did end. 174 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,400 Your sister really did find you and you really aren't here. 175 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,960 This is all an empty shell. 176 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:42,560 And I think having to then tell it to the kids and show them added to that finality. 177 00:10:42,560 --> 00:10:47,520 So I think it was incremental over time, but again, I'm still waiting for it to actually 178 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,040 be cemented as truth. 179 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:51,040 You know? 180 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:52,040 Yeah. 181 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:53,040 Yeah. 182 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:58,680 And I do think some of that kind of just bringing in the faith side of it. 183 00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:05,440 I do think some of that, the way that God designed us is a really just a gracious thing 184 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:11,080 that it's not, well, your husband's dead and you just need to deal with all of it right 185 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,760 this very second. 186 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,880 The way that we're designed, we don't. 187 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,680 We don't take it all in right then because it's too much. 188 00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:25,080 I think that's a really gracious way that God designed us to take it incrementally and 189 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,760 pieces instead of all at once because that's too much. 190 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:36,520 And kind of on that side of things, something we see often regardless of the death that's 191 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:44,160 involved, if it's a spouse or a child or whoever is something called survivor's guilt. 192 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:49,920 And tell us a little bit for one, what does survivor's guilt mean to you? 193 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:54,400 And what did that look like for you and your journey? 194 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:55,400 Yeah. 195 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,080 I didn't expect to feel that. 196 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:07,480 I think the first, the first twinge of like, oh my goodness, was before that trip where 197 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,880 he sent us off to the beach while he stayed home. 198 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:18,400 The days before that, I literally reminded my husband to go work on his dear stand. 199 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,920 I don't know if he would have done it otherwise, but I said, oh yeah, you're going to go work 200 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:24,520 on your dear stand, right? 201 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,520 And he was like, oh yeah, that's right. 202 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:31,160 And then later you're like, are you kidding me? 203 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:38,680 And as much as I wanted to let myself fall into that pit, I'm like, but I have to keep 204 00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:41,000 going back to it's done. 205 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:42,000 It doesn't matter. 206 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,120 At this point, it's permanently over. 207 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:46,240 He's not coming back. 208 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,520 If you could, you can't rewrite history. 209 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:54,400 And so I think that was the initial of like, did I contribute to his demise? 210 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:55,680 Would he have forgotten? 211 00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:56,680 I have no idea. 212 00:12:56,680 --> 00:12:58,480 I'll never know the answer to that. 213 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:03,240 And so I've had to say it doesn't change the outcome today. 214 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:10,360 And I think what soon happened after that was I felt guilty the first time I smiled and 215 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:11,360 laughed. 216 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:12,360 It felt wrong. 217 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,960 It felt like, no, you need to wear black. 218 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:16,920 You need to look sullen. 219 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:18,560 Nothing should ever make you happy again. 220 00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:24,520 You should be completely destroyed because that's a sign of respect for the dead. 221 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,840 And my brother is so funny. 222 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,440 It's like he can't help but be funny. 223 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:34,520 And so I think he wanted to lighten up some of those initial days where it was horrible, 224 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:39,380 writing an obituary, picking out a casket, these horrible activities that he would show 225 00:13:39,380 --> 00:13:41,000 me funny videos. 226 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,240 But it was this push pull of like, oh, it's so funny. 227 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,120 And yet like, no, no, no, not yet. 228 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,080 Not you should wait a year before you break a smile. 229 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:55,960 And so it was interesting to kind of have this bizarre unexpected emotion, even cleaning 230 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,480 out his closet, which I waited months to do. 231 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:00,480 It felt wrong. 232 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:01,960 Like, I feel guilty. 233 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,040 Like, oh, you're moving on. 234 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,040 I took off my wedding ring and oh, you're just moving on. 235 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:08,040 Like you're over it. 236 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:09,040 You're done. 237 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:10,640 You know, it was like a six week thing. 238 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,360 And like, I'm totally fine now. 239 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:20,480 I felt like guilty for making these decisions as if I wasn't wallowing in it enough. 240 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,160 And friends were so loving to say, where's the rulebook? 241 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:29,320 Where's the guide for widows that you have to follow the 12 step program? 242 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:30,960 You know, there's no rules. 243 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,080 You're going to grieve how you want to grieve. 244 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:38,080 And the world does keep spinning and things will be happy and funny. 245 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:44,480 And you will have those little moments where you are having basically a slowly letting go 246 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,360 because our marriage didn't have a future as much as I wish it had. 247 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,460 It wasn't like a divorce. 248 00:14:50,460 --> 00:14:52,600 So I think those were some examples. 249 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,880 And then it went to another level. 250 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:06,880 When I did start liking my now second husband, it was by everyone's admission too fast. 251 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:08,840 Everyone said, oh, well, she's lonely. 252 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,320 This is, you know, a rebound as a pacifier. 253 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:18,200 That was another extremely guilt invoking moment because I felt like a mistress. 254 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,120 I felt like I was cheating on my husband by hugging someone else. 255 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:23,720 I was like, this is wrong. 256 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,680 No one can know this is happening. 257 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:30,000 I had been married for 11 years and I had trained myself. 258 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,320 You don't look at other men. 259 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:32,320 Period. 260 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,520 It's always eyes down out of respect and faithfulness. 261 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,560 I was like, oh, I don't stare at men. 262 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,640 I don't like dream about them. 263 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,800 I'm like, no, eyes down because I have one person that I'm satisfied with. 264 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:50,600 So to then be able to look side to side at anybody I wanted to felt very wrong, very 265 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:51,720 weird. 266 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:57,000 And so it was like that for a long amount of time, just feeling like I was breaking unwritten 267 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,000 rules, I guess. 268 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,000 Yeah. 269 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,440 No, there's a lot in there. 270 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:09,160 And first off, I wanted to say, I'm really glad that you mentioned the smiling part, the 271 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:10,480 laughing part. 272 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:16,080 I see this all the time with different clients that I've worked with that that's really 273 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:17,160 difficult. 274 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:18,320 I lost my spouse. 275 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:19,320 I lost my kid. 276 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,840 I lost my best friend. 277 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:23,280 I can't have fun. 278 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,520 I can't enjoy my life. 279 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:26,520 How can I? 280 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,120 I lost this person I love. 281 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,120 That's a really hard thing. 282 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,400 And I'm glad that you mentioned that because I bet you there's probably somebody listening 283 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:39,800 to this that's experienced something similar or will experience something similar. 284 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:46,040 So it's very important to catch that early and to allow yourself to enjoy life and something 285 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:51,840 I normally ask people that have lost somebody is, okay, let's just imagine that they could 286 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,280 talk to you right this second. 287 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:55,280 What would they be telling you? 288 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,040 Would they be telling you, no, you need to be solemn? 289 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,080 Or would they say, go, go laugh, go have fun? 290 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,560 So that's a big piece there. 291 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:13,960 On the dating aspect too, you're really faced a extremely unique spot here and the sense 292 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:22,040 that not that older widows can't date or marry when they're loose somebody in their 60s or 293 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:28,920 70s or whatever they can, but you had a lot of life left to live, at least hopefully at 294 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:29,920 that point. 295 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:38,560 So that's, it's a good thing that initial piece of that guilt just because you're training 296 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,360 that you had earlier when you were married. 297 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:42,360 That's great. 298 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:46,960 I think women keeping their eyes down, definitely with men, same thing. 299 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,600 I don't look for other women like I'm married. 300 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,520 I don't need to look for other women, but that fundamentally changes. 301 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,920 It's till death do us part. 302 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,480 They weren't cheating that there's no marriage at that point. 303 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:07,440 And that's another one of those kind of trinkets of reality setting in there. 304 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:13,920 So with that, you're starting to see this at the time, somebody that you're thinking 305 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,680 about dating and now you're married. 306 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,200 How did you, how did you work through that guilt? 307 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,040 I feel like I'm cheating on my husband. 308 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:23,040 Right. 309 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,160 How did you work through that? 310 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:32,520 Yeah, and it was such a bizarre situation because my now husband, Jason, which was the 311 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:41,040 first and last person I dated after losing my husband was actually a friend of my husband. 312 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:45,480 And so I, I had known Jason for 20 years. 313 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,920 We had done life together in church, small group. 314 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:55,120 And when everyone was in the woods looking for Aaron, it was Jason and another friend 315 00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:59,400 they heard the police saying, you know, everybody out of the woods, no, no, no. 316 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,480 And they're like, no, we're going to find our friend. 317 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:02,640 You're not going to tell us what to do. 318 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,040 We're going to find him because if he's hurt, then there's some urgency. 319 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:07,240 We need to get him help. 320 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:15,440 And so he scoured a hundred acre woods for, I don't know, six, seven, eight hours straight 321 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:16,440 without stopping. 322 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,960 So I knew the caliber of his character. 323 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:21,080 I knew who he was. 324 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:22,200 I knew how he was. 325 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:27,280 I knew he wasn't a serial killer, you know, because you never know what people are like 326 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:28,280 these days. 327 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:35,560 So we actually reconnected and it felt weird because I'm like, you're my husband's friend. 328 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,240 And in his mind, he's thinking, you're my friend's wife. 329 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:45,520 And so it was, it was both of us having our own separate inner turmoil of like, this is 330 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:46,520 not real. 331 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:47,880 This is, this is creepy. 332 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:54,440 Like, can this be God's plan because it's so bizarre, but yet at the same time, I know 333 00:19:54,440 --> 00:20:00,080 people had said little prayers of, oh, Lord, help her to find someone in the future. 334 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:05,480 Even my own mother-in-law within days said, you don't need our permission, but you, you 335 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,120 can and should love again. 336 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:08,440 It's really okay. 337 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:17,520 Like she was very kind and they actually welcomed Jason as if he was family, which was insane 338 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:24,400 that my in-laws are treating their daughter-in-laws new boyfriend as family. 339 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,800 It was just the best of the worst really. 340 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,520 It was the best that it could possibly be given the circumstances. 341 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:37,120 And so I think at the beginning, I would cry on Jason's shoulder saying, I miss Aaron, 342 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:38,120 I miss my husband. 343 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:40,080 And he would say, I miss my friend. 344 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:45,280 And so I could cry and say, you know, over time, I'm like, I really like you, but that 345 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,400 means I love two men. 346 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,320 And he was like, yeah, it would be weird if you didn't. 347 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,080 And so he was always gracious, like, do you want space? 348 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,800 Do you want to talk about Aaron? 349 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:03,520 And when he would come over and bring the five of us dinner, he would share stories with 350 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,600 my sons about, let me tell you about a time I went camping with your dad stories. 351 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,880 I would never know and that he could share. 352 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,840 And so I think Jason has such a, a gentle personality. 353 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:19,200 I've been blessed to marry two amazing, godly men. 354 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,760 That's just the gift of God because it has nothing to do with me. 355 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:29,560 But I think it again, just kind of like the reality piece, it just took time to process. 356 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,000 This is okay. 357 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,320 This is allowed. 358 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,240 You know, it's weird. 359 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:35,800 It's not God's perfect design. 360 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,200 Let's be honest. 361 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,000 This is after a fallen world. 362 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,760 This is how things sometimes pan out. 363 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:49,080 But I think it over time became less weird, but we definitely didn't sit together at church, 364 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:50,560 didn't let the kids know what was going. 365 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:56,400 It was like months where it was like all under the radar because I was under, in my mind, 366 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,000 a magnifying glass. 367 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,040 People were like, how do widows live? 368 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,120 Does she look sad enough this Sunday? 369 00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:05,960 You know, and I was like, they're going to say it's too soon and too fast. 370 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,880 But you guys are the ones praying for me to find love again. 371 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:14,920 And lo and behold, God answers prayers, but I think people felt, well, this is too fast 372 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,840 and too serious. 373 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,920 And I'm like, well, here we are about to come up on our ninth wedding anniversary. 374 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,280 Like I'm pretty sure it was God ordained. 375 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:31,880 You know, it's just a bizarre coming together that no one would have picked out for me. 376 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,960 And I even had, unfortunately, widowed friends. 377 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:40,320 I've met a lot of young widows, which has been a mixed blessing, but even they kind 378 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,720 of, there were some jabs of like, must be nice to, you know, maybe I should have gone 379 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:49,320 through my husband's phone to find, see if there was anybody single. 380 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,680 And I'm like, that is not what I did. 381 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:53,680 Wow. 382 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,560 So even widows can say some crazy things. 383 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,040 Yeah. 384 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,400 You know, when you're talking through this, I'm thinking through, you know, I'm thinking 385 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:09,960 through one thing, one personal thing that I don't want the audience to think this is 386 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,520 a morbid thing I do with my wife all of the time. 387 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:18,640 But we have had some discussions of, hey, what if something did happen to me? 388 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:23,640 I've got, I've got two young kids out in the world right now and we've got another one 389 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:24,640 on the way. 390 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:31,760 So if something were to happen, my wife would kind of be like you left with little ones there. 391 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:36,880 And again, this is not a dinner room topic we have every day, but I do think it's important 392 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:42,720 that like, hey, if that happens, I want you to be well, even if I am gone. 393 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:47,760 And we've had these talks of where I have actually encouraged her that no, I really 394 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:54,440 do think you should date that you should potentially look at that knowing that incredibly hard 395 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:55,440 situation. 396 00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:02,080 I think in part because of those little kids and the need for just some leadership and 397 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:03,080 things like that. 398 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:08,480 And I know that's a very touchy subject and other women might decide to not do that or 399 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:13,600 other men on the other hand, if they have a wife that passes away. 400 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:20,800 But there is some biblical evidence of that where I'm blanking on which book the Bible 401 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:28,520 is, it's Paul talking of saying that, hey, widows that have family help that they don't 402 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,840 necessarily need all the help that the church can provide them there. 403 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,200 And also if they can remarry, that can be good. 404 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:41,900 So now that you're on the other side, you have had this nine year marriage of happiness 405 00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:47,240 on the other side, not saying that we're going to have an iron fist, you have to do it this 406 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,840 way or this other way. 407 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:57,120 Do you think by and large it is a good idea for younger widows to remarry or would you 408 00:24:57,120 --> 00:25:02,080 say it's just a completely depends on the situation? 409 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:03,560 I do think it depends. 410 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:11,280 I think as I met several, we called ourselves widows with kiddos, a lot of widows my age. 411 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:16,200 And before I even was telling them anything, because I didn't want to even be judged in 412 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:22,080 that community, some of them said I am very much content being alone. 413 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:27,320 And I don't want all that comes with a marriage because I mean, there was a stretch of time 414 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,920 where I was like, I consult with no one, I compromise zero. 415 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,320 Now granted, I'm doing all this stuff, but I also don't have any marital fights. 416 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,520 So that's a plus. 417 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,720 And so some of them were kind of like, once was enough, I'm really okay. 418 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,400 Maybe they'll find someone in the future, maybe they won't. 419 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:52,200 So if some of them I have noticed have remarried, some of them have even gone on to have children 420 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:58,880 together, but I do think it is so different, you know, whatever God's plan looks like. 421 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,120 And I certainly was not planning. 422 00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:07,000 I told my mother-in-law and meant your son was enough love for a lifetime. 423 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:12,040 And I also thought, I mean, I'm in my 30s with a litter of children. 424 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:18,600 Do once this package, this is like the dent and scratch package in the back of the store. 425 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,160 Get a 20 year old without kids who's got like a fresh clean slate. 426 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:28,040 But like you mentioned about the Bible, I often think about the story of Ruth and Boaz, 427 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:34,840 not that I'm awesome like Ruth, but how Jason very much was this Boaz of treating me with 428 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:40,360 integrity instead of like, you poor little widow, you know, like, I'll fix everything 429 00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:45,760 instead, you know, just as Boaz would tell Ruth, you know, still gleaned from the outer 430 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,240 edges of the fields. 431 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,760 Like, yeah, you need to get yourself fed and grab these items on. 432 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,600 He still was doing that, just knowing like, I know that you're a functional woman and 433 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,960 mom, I'm not here to be a rescuer. 434 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:07,200 But in so many ways, he was that redeeming quality that is a reflection of God ultimately. 435 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:14,680 So it, you know, it's been such a marvel at how kind and compassionate God is. 436 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:20,440 But I don't know if it's for everybody, you know, I think everybody's got such a different 437 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,480 purpose, you know, from God. 438 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:24,480 Sure. 439 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:31,600 Yeah, it's, I tend to agree with you that there are different circumstances. 440 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,520 Actually have some, of course, they're not quite your example, because they're older. 441 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:42,480 But my grandma, my, my grandpa, who's actually my, my namesake, he passed away before I was 442 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:48,920 born and my granny was like in her fifties, never has really had a desire to remarry. 443 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:54,280 And then my father-in-law, my mother-in-law just passed away last year, had kind of a 444 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,280 long bout with cancer. 445 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,040 And of course, it's just been a year and it could things change. 446 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,560 I mean, it could, but goodness, I would put a lot of money that he probably wouldn't get 447 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,520 remarry to just based off, based off of who he is. 448 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,480 But again, it is a little bit different when you're a little bit older, you've got kids 449 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,320 and grandkids taking care of each other. 450 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,120 You're in your thirties with, yeah, all these little ones. 451 00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:21,520 Again, it does kind of change things up a little bit. 452 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:27,480 But I think it speaks to what you've mentioned before of having these people around you, 453 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:34,840 friends, family, church, to not just segregate into yourself and try to figure it all out 454 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,200 on your own. 455 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,200 You're dealing with grief and raising little ones. 456 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,680 That's a lot. 457 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,200 That definitely does not need to just be only on your shoulders. 458 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,920 You need to have some other people in your camp for sure. 459 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:47,920 Yeah. 460 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:55,800 I had never seen the body of Christ in action like I did in those initial months. 461 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,880 I mean, I'm talking strangers would come up to me in the store. 462 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:06,280 I don't know that because this was all over the news because it's like, oh, a school teacher, 463 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,240 he's well known in the community and it happened on school property. 464 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,040 So it's like a whole thing in the papers and stuff. 465 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:18,080 And so people were very kind, would come up to me at baseball games and people would just 466 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,400 say, I know who you are and I have prayed for your family. 467 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:28,080 I'm like, that's the best gift you can ever give anybody is to pray for them. 468 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,480 That's a selfless act where you get nothing in return. 469 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,560 And so that's when I really saw, I'm like, oh, this is what the Bible means about the 470 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,440 hands and the feet because I've read about it. 471 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,120 I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, head, shoulders, knees and toes. 472 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:42,120 It means nothing to me. 473 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,120 And then I was like, this is it. 474 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:48,120 This is what kept us afloat, obviously through God. 475 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:52,720 And it's like people were sending gift cards so that we could eat because I had no interest 476 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,160 in cooking or people said, we're going to get your house cleaned. 477 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,520 We will take your kids to play miniature golf. 478 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,160 We will bring them back in two hours. 479 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:02,400 They will be okay. 480 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:03,400 We will feed them. 481 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:04,840 They will be safe. 482 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,520 Use this time however you want. 483 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,560 And you've got two hours go. 484 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:15,520 So the way that people showed up, I was like, wow, this is how God uses people because if 485 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,120 you don't have people, I don't know how you make it. 486 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,760 And if you don't have faith, I also don't know how you make it. 487 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,720 So you're absolutely right. 488 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:30,720 That's something that a few other guest stuff out on the show and just people in my personal 489 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:38,880 life that we've talked about, particularly as Christians, we have a, yeah, this different 490 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,720 kind of worldview. 491 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:47,200 And not that we're happy that bad things happen, but we just kind of know that they will. 492 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:52,120 Now not everyone's going to lose a spouse like you did at a young age, but we're all 493 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,360 going to have to deal with some form of trial. 494 00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:00,080 That's, you mentioned we live in a world that has been tainted by sin. 495 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,200 So therefore it's not a perfect world. 496 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,760 And that's something that's important for all the listeners, not that, hey, you're going 497 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:12,240 to lose a spouse, but you're going to have something happen at some point. 498 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:13,520 That's going to be hard. 499 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:19,720 So let's not wait for disaster, distract and then find a community of believers. 500 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:25,640 Not, not that you can't, that you certainly can afterwards, but how much sweeter and better 501 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:26,640 it is for us. 502 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:31,720 If I already have some things in place and then when disaster strikes, I don't even have 503 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:32,720 to do anything. 504 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,640 Like you said, the hands and feet, they, they come and just do it. 505 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,160 That's what the church is called to do in those situations. 506 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,720 So I think that's great. 507 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:50,920 And that speaks volumes of, of your late husband, that he helped lead your family in a way that 508 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,680 he served you in that way, even after he was gone. 509 00:31:54,680 --> 00:32:00,080 That's, that's when I'm having these conversations with my wife, getting not to obsess over it, 510 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,840 but I want to do that same thing. 511 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:07,360 I want my family to be in a place to where if something did happen to me, they're not 512 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,080 left in a state of shock and have no idea what to do. 513 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,680 No, they've got friends and family and church family to be there to take that up. 514 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:19,940 So if you're a listener and, and particularly if you're a listener that has any type of 515 00:32:19,940 --> 00:32:25,440 Christian faith and you're not plugged in the church, it's the time to do it now. 516 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:30,880 That's not wait for disaster to strike because it, it will, like Debbie's saying, will come 517 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:36,520 massively and handy when they, when you need them, you don't even have to ask there. 518 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:37,520 They're just right there. 519 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,840 Yeah, that's so true. 520 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:40,840 It really is. 521 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:47,240 And I, and I think, you know, it's some people may be through these experiences, then start 522 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,000 a walk with the Lord. 523 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,080 That's amazing, wonderful. 524 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:58,400 I think another way I didn't implode is I was already anchored to God as my rock. 525 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:04,000 And so the storm was going to come, but I may have been tossed around and beat up a little 526 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:10,520 bit, but I was still anchored into the rock, which to me was way better, maybe easier. 527 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:17,520 I don't know if that's the right description, but it's compared to trying to build a foundation 528 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,960 as the storm is coming down. 529 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:20,960 That seems much harder. 530 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,760 Like how do I make this a rock when it kind of feels like sand? 531 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:30,600 So I am grateful like to not have waited to love the Lord. 532 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:35,920 It obviously, this devastation deepened my relationship with the Lord, but yeah, it's 533 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,040 amazing how he uses others to bless us so much. 534 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,640 And it makes me want to be a blessing to others. 535 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:49,000 How can I then, you know, if we've had hard times, I think it makes us more compassionate. 536 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,680 How can we then help others who are in need as well? 537 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:58,760 I've heard you reference this a few times with some of the other, other widows, especially 538 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,080 I like the widows with kiddos. 539 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:06,680 I haven't heard that phrase before, but I know some of that's just a kind of a continuity 540 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:12,600 that, you know, there's no way I could ever understand what, what you'd gone through. 541 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:18,560 I can hear you and somewhat empathize, but I've never experienced anything like that. 542 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,560 And other widows certainly, certainly can. 543 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:29,880 So have you seen yourself kind of either go out of your way to impact specifically widows? 544 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:35,160 Or do you see yourself more so with that service of not so much just finding with other widows, 545 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,840 but just looking for people that are hurting to try to impact them? 546 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,440 Do, do you kind of see yourself doing anything like that? 547 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:49,440 Yeah, I did start a little Facebook group for widow support. 548 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:56,760 It's been so interesting to have this peak into so many widows realities because some 549 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:03,680 of them have faced a lot of backlash either from mostly from the in-laws. 550 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:05,200 They would guilt them. 551 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:11,720 How dare you go on a date with somebody or it just became very, I don't know, I think 552 00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:14,000 death brings out weirdness in people. 553 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:20,920 And so I saw so many families doing this downward spiral and they're like, people are wanting 554 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,400 me to move and my husband just passed away a month ago. 555 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:33,480 So family demands become bizarre and actually really unkind, which again, I didn't experience, 556 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:40,320 but so many women have gone through some, it's like people would intensify the pain. 557 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,440 And my whole goal in creating this group is to say, this is a safe space. 558 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:49,200 We all get each other because I had people say, can I be in your group just to understand? 559 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,520 No, no, no, you can't be in our group. 560 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:52,880 I'm so sorry. 561 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:58,440 But just a safe place, a haven to say you can bring that icky stuff. 562 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:03,120 You can vent about your sister-in-law who's making you crazy or how your family wants 563 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:08,160 you to move or they're trying to take your rings from you. 564 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:12,200 Now that your husband's gone or giving you a hard time for wanting to move forward with 565 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:13,440 love. 566 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,440 So I think that's been really exciting. 567 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,280 Some of them have remarried. 568 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:21,440 Some do not want to for whatever reason, both are great. 569 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,760 So it's something, I don't know that that is a huge impact. 570 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:33,400 I do, I think I'm hoping that through this loss that I do become a kinder, more encouraging 571 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:41,280 follower of Jesus that even now that I was at the time I was a stay at home mom and was 572 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,800 like, I got to pay light bills. 573 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,480 How do you pay light bills around here? 574 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,480 Because I didn't want to go back to the classroom being a teacher. 575 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,080 I made my own children, had four kids in four years. 576 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,040 I was like, I don't even like kids. 577 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:53,240 Let's not go back to that. 578 00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:54,240 Kids are horrible. 579 00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:58,880 So I was like, I'm going to do something with adults, which ended up being these two online 580 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,640 fitness businesses. 581 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:06,600 And I think over time what I've grown to see is this is a way for me to encourage all 582 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,040 kinds of women. 583 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:13,400 Some of them widowed, some divorced, some divorced remarried, different dynamics. 584 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:18,960 But I'm like, if I can infuse as much encouragement into their lives, if I can speak about the 585 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:24,400 Lord and His amazing sweet love, I'm like, then this is great. 586 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:30,080 So I would love to help widows as much as I can, but even a bigger picture of just how 587 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:35,360 can I pour into women and just be a blessing, whatever that looks like. 588 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:36,360 Yeah. 589 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:37,360 Yeah. 590 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:38,880 No, I think that's great. 591 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:44,440 And as you were saying this, something popped in my head that I hadn't considered asking 592 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:45,800 you before. 593 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:52,960 But when somebody goes through something very difficult, losing the spouses right up there, 594 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,880 you'll have people like that kind person that's trying to get into your group. 595 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,480 I think that they probably have good intentions. 596 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:05,560 I want to understand other people, but yeah, that's not the time or place there. 597 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:13,400 And I know oftentimes in that eagerness to try to help, to try to fix things for people, 598 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:20,400 that you might say or do something that's really not helpful at all. 599 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,880 And especially right when it's fresh at the funeral. 600 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:29,120 I'm thinking of things like, oh, you'll get over it or something like that. 601 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,800 Not necessarily intentionally being mean, but it doesn't come across very well through 602 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:38,440 your experience or some of the stories of other women that you've heard go through this. 603 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,880 Do you kind of have any things to tell the audience like, yeah, don't do that to somebody 604 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:43,880 that's grieving? 605 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:44,880 Yeah. 606 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:55,680 I think the biggest thing that comes to mind is I had so many women want to be my friend. 607 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,320 And I could not understand that. 608 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:06,120 So many people wanted to have coffee and lunch with me and I could not comprehend why. 609 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:07,240 We're acquaintances. 610 00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:09,320 I have never had coffee and lunch with you. 611 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,560 I don't even remember your last name. 612 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,240 What was, I think people feel helpless. 613 00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:17,240 What can I do? 614 00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:20,000 Can I just bring you a baked ziti? 615 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,160 That's fine. 616 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:26,760 But to say, I would like to subtract from the energy and capacity you have by making 617 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:34,640 you go out to eat with an acquaintance and zap your energy and zap your time so that 618 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,720 we can now form a connection. 619 00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:39,280 That was very hard for me. 620 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,200 I tried to be very gracious. 621 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,920 I said yes and thought, why did I say yes? 622 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,080 Why are we at this coffee shop for two hours? 623 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:48,680 I don't want to be here. 624 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,120 I want to be on my bed crying. 625 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,320 That's all I have a bandwidth to do. 626 00:39:54,320 --> 00:40:00,000 So I think whatever your level of friendship is before a death happens, keep it at that 627 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,000 level. 628 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,320 Don't, I would say start a new friendship just because they died. 629 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:05,360 I don't know. 630 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,920 I still don't understand why that was. 631 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:12,720 Maybe just send a card or flowers or bring a meal, drop it, and leave. 632 00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:18,360 That was another problem as people would bring meals and stay 45 minutes. 633 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,280 And I'm like, in this 45 minutes, my energy is zapped. 634 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:23,560 The food is cold. 635 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,480 And my kids just put another hole in the wall because they've been unsupervised in the other 636 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,240 room for 45 minutes. 637 00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:31,920 So I had to stop all the meals. 638 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,480 I was like, help isn't always help. 639 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,080 And I get it, we all are like, just let me do something. 640 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,080 Let me do something. 641 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:40,240 Well, you can just pray. 642 00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:41,920 Just stay home and pray. 643 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:48,080 And what really meant the most is when people would wait six months to send a card. 644 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:49,640 I read that card. 645 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:54,480 The cards in the first six days, words on a page, don't know what they said. 646 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,880 But it's six months when someone would send flowers. 647 00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,040 Amazing. 648 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:04,300 So if you know someone who passes away, mark your calendar for six months and then tell 649 00:41:04,300 --> 00:41:07,760 them your spouse is remembered. 650 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,240 You are still prayed for. 651 00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:11,240 You are cared for in whatever ways. 652 00:41:11,240 --> 00:41:15,320 I've had one friend specifically to do that consistently. 653 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,920 That's what speaks volumes instead of the initial rush. 654 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:20,080 I think that's helpful. 655 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:26,200 I tried to sift through people's comments of he's in a better place and rest in peace. 656 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,160 I mean, some of that was some of his students who came to a funeral, which that may have 657 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:31,360 been their first funeral. 658 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:32,680 They didn't know what to say. 659 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:33,680 Sure. 660 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:40,200 But other widows actually, one widow at the funeral said, you need to get to the Social 661 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:41,200 Security Office. 662 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:46,680 And I said, like right now, like in my black dress, should I go now? 663 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,360 And she was like, no, but it's really important. 664 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:54,040 And I was like, this is not really the time and place to do this. 665 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:55,040 Maybe not today. 666 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,440 Maybe message me tomorrow. 667 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:04,000 I had another widow because my husband died in August, which meant October came. 668 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:10,560 And she had suggested that I dress as a black widow for Halloween for a costume. 669 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,040 That was baffling to me. 670 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:16,400 So there's always these outlier comments that you're like, just take it with a grain of 671 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:17,400 salt. 672 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:18,400 They're trying to be nice. 673 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:23,640 But I think just to be present and it's OK to sit quietly, I think people want to fill 674 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,760 the space with words. 675 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:30,800 Some of the most moving things were people just sitting next to me saying nothing, not 676 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:31,800 a single word. 677 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,600 It ministered to me in a way that words couldn't. 678 00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:40,080 So I think, you know, just to know you don't have to have all the right answers or fix 679 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,440 it, but just to be present with whatever level of friendship you have. 680 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,280 So that's probably a long answer to a short question. 681 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:54,360 No, I think that's a that's a very insightful answer, though, that, you know, I'm sitting 682 00:42:54,360 --> 00:43:01,600 here too of experiencing doing counseling sessions with people and trying to help them. 683 00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,240 Yeah, not feel like they do have to come in and fix it. 684 00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:09,320 But I really like how you put that of where your relationship is. 685 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,120 Keep it to that same level of intensity. 686 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,800 Do something. 687 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:16,800 Give card prayer. 688 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,360 What send a card. 689 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:24,280 And I love that the six months later, that is that's fantastic advice because, yeah, 690 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,400 six months from now, it's not like you got over it. 691 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,480 It's not like it went away. 692 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,040 But that's not at the forefront of people's minds. 693 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,480 So maybe, yeah, if you're listening and you want to help somebody that's gone through 694 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:41,400 something difficult, think outside the box a little bit. 695 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:46,840 But yeah, really see what's what's going to be happening down the road. 696 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:53,320 And how can I help in a way that I'm not injecting myself in there? 697 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:59,280 I'm thinking through this isn't a grief situation, but talking about with meals of when when our 698 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,320 kiddos have been born and church members have dropped food off. 699 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:07,680 Yeah, some of the best ones is just literally dropped it on the front porch. 700 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:08,680 Have a good one. 701 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,880 And they're out of there. 702 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:17,360 And that's just that's really, really kind when people do that because they're not, I 703 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,320 don't think the people that stay there for 45 minutes were intending to be rude. 704 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,080 But you are injecting yourself into the process and it's not about you. 705 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,920 It's about helping the person that's that's hurting in that moment. 706 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:30,440 Yeah, absolutely. 707 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:31,440 That's well said. 708 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:32,440 Well said. 709 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,440 Drop and go. 710 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:35,440 Yeah. 711 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:42,480 And some of this too kind of bringing the faith component in is I could be I could have 712 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:48,440 been at Debbie's door whenever that happened and said the exact perfect words, did the 713 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,880 perfect prayer, perfect meal, perfect everything. 714 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,960 Guess what Debbie's still going to be hurting. 715 00:44:54,960 --> 00:45:00,400 Like there's nothing any individual can do to take away that pain. 716 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:05,960 But as believers, we know that God can do much more. 717 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:12,000 So I love what you mentioned with prayer is we downgrade prayer to like, yeah, I mean, 718 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:13,600 it's kind of formality. 719 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:14,600 Nice thing to do. 720 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,320 No, like it's incredible. 721 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:23,600 You have been impacted by prayer by people that you will never know what they prayed 722 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,920 or who prayed. 723 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,560 Don't underestimate that. 724 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,640 And it's great if you come back and say, Hey, I've been praying for you, but maybe you 725 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:35,160 don't even say that. 726 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:41,200 Just put that little prayer you pray for once a week for one minute or something. 727 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:46,120 Don't downgrade that because that's a really big deal because only God can really help 728 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:50,880 show that love to somebody that's hurting and grieving. 729 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,320 It doesn't matter if we have the best gift ever. 730 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:54,800 We can't replace that. 731 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,760 That's so true. 732 00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:02,240 It really, it really is that the prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. 733 00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:08,760 And I think before Aaron passed away, I probably was really rushing my prayer time. 734 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,040 I'm distracted while reading my Bible. 735 00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:16,600 It's all like going through the motions a little bit robotic and not much depth. 736 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,360 I'm sad to say. 737 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:23,080 And so for him to say, Listen, you're really hardheaded. 738 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:29,000 So I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to bring the pain for you to be what I designed 739 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,000 you to be. 740 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,000 And I'm like, okay. 741 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:35,240 And he's like, I'm going to, I'm going to have some cushioning along the way with people 742 00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:36,760 helping and praying. 743 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,040 But I think it is a profound way to help people. 744 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:41,800 And I really do. 745 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,320 He's very good to use his people. 746 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:45,320 Yeah. 747 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:51,160 So really just, if, if those of you that are listening, if you do a prayer journal or something, 748 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:55,040 yeah, jot some of those things down, put it in the phone. 749 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:59,600 If somebody just lost their spouse, their kid, whatever, putting your phone six months 750 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:05,560 from that day, just like Debbie said, and do it, say your prayer, send a card, say, 751 00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,000 Hey, I've been thinking about you. 752 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,760 I've been praying for you. 753 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,440 I about guarantee you that's your, like you said, you're going to get better response than 754 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:13,760 a week after that death. 755 00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:14,880 Hey, let's go to coffee. 756 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,320 And we've never even really talked to each other. 757 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,760 Probably not going to be the most helpful thing to do. 758 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,760 Yes, exactly. 759 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:23,760 Great. 760 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:32,760 Well, Debbie, I, I think that the, the audience is probably has really enjoyed your story, 761 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:38,320 especially those of you, if you've lost anybody, probably really resonate with you there. 762 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:43,320 I know you also have some of your, your fitness business and everything like that. 763 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:47,960 So people that have been listening to this, how can they connect with you after listening 764 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:48,960 to the show? 765 00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:49,960 Sure. 766 00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:56,800 So if I write some on my grief journey and Faye, that a really long website, which is 767 00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,240 Debbie Wilkins based in.com. 768 00:47:59,240 --> 00:48:00,440 That's a mouthful. 769 00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,720 And then I have two of these health businesses. 770 00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:06,000 One is my mom's sanity.com. 771 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,800 So we're called mom's sanity because all moms are crazy and need sanity. 772 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:14,600 So we focus on motherhood, faith, fitness and nutrition. 773 00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,040 Really the core of it is the faith piece. 774 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:22,000 You know, it's like, let's glorify God by taking care of ourselves so that we can take 775 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:23,720 care of our families. 776 00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:27,960 And then my other fitness and nutrition businesses fit with Deb.com. 777 00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:34,360 So it's all about helping busy women to really feel good, just feel good amidst the crazy 778 00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:40,720 schedules and the chaos of every day just to do little simple tweaks to take care of 779 00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:41,720 yourself. 780 00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:43,760 So I'd love to connect. 781 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:44,760 Yeah. 782 00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:45,760 Yeah. 783 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:49,680 And I will put all of that stuff down in there. 784 00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:54,000 Maybe at a future date, we can talk more just strictly on the fitness, mental health, spiritual 785 00:48:54,000 --> 00:49:00,560 side, I think greatly gets undervalued of how your physical health impacts everything 786 00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:01,560 else. 787 00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,440 So definitely connect with her on that. 788 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,320 And yeah, it was absolutely great getting to hear your story. 789 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:13,120 I know a very painful story, but one that's still filled with a lot of joy. 790 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,120 So thanks again for sharing that with us. 791 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,120 Well, thank you for letting me be here. 792 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:19,720 It's such a huge blessing. 793 00:49:19,720 --> 00:49:22,200 So I really appreciate it. 794 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:23,200 Absolutely. 795 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:24,200 All right. 796 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:29,040 Well, and everyone that's listening to the show, I appreciate your support and listening 797 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,440 again and we'll catch you on the next episode. 798 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:32,120 You guys take care.