1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,420 I know many of you listening or watching to this podcast today care about life, care 2 00:00:15,420 --> 00:00:21,680 about human life. Many of you would describe yourselves as pro-life. And it's a very important 3 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:27,840 discussion, but I'm very excited to have this guest today. Her name is Nicole, and 4 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:35,040 she has not just a philosophical kind of view of pro-life, but has some very real and raw 5 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:40,320 life experiences that she has to share for us today. So Nicole, it's great to have you 6 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,560 on. And why don't you tell the guest a little bit about yourself? 7 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:51,960 Yeah, sure. Well, my name is Nicole Smith, and I am married to a wonderful man and have 8 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:58,960 two beautiful little girls. My career beyond motherhood, which is the most important career 9 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:04,980 you could have, as I'm sure everybody else would agree, would also be on the communication 10 00:01:04,980 --> 00:01:11,280 sides of global human rights. So I've taken on many, many topics over the years, one of 11 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:18,200 which being abortion, but also the cases of the child, Brian Uganda, the sex slave of Afghanistan, 12 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:24,080 the religious minority in prison done Iran, and really any continent has been that's 13 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:32,680 occupied. I've probably dealt with some really tough choices and cultural realities, and 14 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:38,760 advocated on the behalf of those that are hurting, you know, so that's really my career background. 15 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:45,360 But as you said, yeah, I birthed my second daughter would bring a flesh and blood bone 16 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:53,320 to my career, really make it all the more real and tangible because it became my everyday. 17 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:58,520 So I'm actually going to throw a little bit of a curveball at you. So we're going to jump 18 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:04,160 into the to your daughter, which we will. But let me actually go the other way first. 19 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:12,960 Yeah, where did the that desire of being in some pretty extreme situations, particularly 20 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:20,680 globally, religious persecution and the Middle East over there, you know, that's that doesn't 21 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:26,680 scream a lot of little girls' favorite dreams when they grow up. So tell us just a little 22 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:33,120 bit about that process of what led you there. Yeah, actually, it's funny you say that because 23 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:38,240 I've had that brought up quite a bit throughout my career. You know, how do you handle such 24 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:45,160 a such tough topics so often, but really it originated my parents were church planters 25 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,640 as a as a child, and they dealt with a lot of at risk use. So they they dealt with the 26 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:56,800 church planting for youth ministries. And so I don't know, it's just like a family cultural 27 00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:02,000 reality that if someone was in need, you get up to help, right? And so I just grew up that 28 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,200 way. And my brother and I were very oriented and wired that way, because that's how we were 29 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:11,960 raised. And as I got older, actually, my family is not really oriented this way, but more 30 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:17,120 in the political spectrum, I became just really intrigued by politics very, very early in 31 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:24,200 life, which my parents allowed me to foster and in my own way. So as I got older, I decided 32 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:29,360 that I wanted to go and get a map, an undergraduate in political science, and then I pursued a 33 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:37,360 master's in law and public policy. And yeah, so I was not really prepared for what God 34 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:42,720 had in store with the use of that education. I had more of a mindset that I would go into 35 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:48,000 constitutional law. And the irony of all ironies, one of my very first jobs out of my master's 36 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,960 was at a constitutional law firm. And but I was on the communication side, we called 37 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:58,960 it the the court of public opinion. And they had a an extensive network of affiliates on 38 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:04,040 a global scale. So things that we did in the United States were oriented towards life and 39 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:09,520 liberty issues. So that's a lot of where the abortion topic came in, though I did deal 40 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:16,520 with it in Europe and that kind of stuff as well. And it but they have that global aspect 41 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:21,960 kind of came into play with those global affiliates. And so some of the biggest work that we did 42 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:27,560 were mostly with religious minorities that were imprisoned in Iran, Sudan, Turkey, all 43 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:34,240 sorts of different countries that was very common for people to be thrown in prison for 44 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:42,200 apostasy or a threat to national security Iran would use that reasoning a lot. Well, 45 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:46,680 if you go into Iran court systems, you're not going to expect that a Christian would 46 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:53,480 get fair due process of law, right? So essentially, what we would do is bring bring awareness 47 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:59,440 to these cases globally, we would raise a bunch of petition signatures, one of our cases 48 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:05,480 got over a million petition signatures, we present it to political political process, 49 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:12,840 President Obama caught attention of it and put one of our clients on the Iranian deal. 50 00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:19,000 And he was released back to the United States. Another one out of Sudan, this poor woman 51 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:24,400 was actually pregnant, had to be imprisoned with her young child because if she's a Christian, 52 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,520 she can't be right. Her children can't be raised by Christians. So they have to children 53 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:33,600 are actually imprisoned with their parents if they're. Yeah, it's pretty messed up. 54 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:40,400 But yeah, her her case, Angelina Jolie ended up taking on to it also the Pope, she was 55 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:45,880 eventually released and now lives in the United States. So again, those are sort of that path 56 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:52,320 that I didn't really anticipate at the outset. I sort of got into this digital communication 57 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:59,800 world that I wasn't actually trained for, but I was very intimately aware of the intricate 58 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,080 knowledge of really the policy processes and that kind of stuff that actually gave me kind 59 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:10,040 of a leg up in that world. And I saw great success and success being that we saw great 60 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,360 outcomes like people were freed out of prison and I ran it, it would take time, but you 61 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:21,040 know, some pressure and some good political maneuvering we got into places and people 62 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:26,640 were released. So it was pretty, pretty amazing. But I got that question quite often. I would 63 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:31,720 go to these conferences and, you know, you circle up and everybody's like, Hey, you know, 64 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:36,400 what do you do for your company? What company do you work for? I'm like, I sell shoes and 65 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:43,240 I sell coats and whatever. And like, what do you do? I'm like, I free religious minorities 66 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:50,520 out of, you know, like, why are you heroes? Like, because people do need to be free from 67 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:55,280 these places. And these are the tools that we're able to use to really impact outcomes 68 00:06:55,280 --> 00:07:01,440 that are just unreachable, like really was just unreachable, the outcomes for these people 69 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:06,920 would largely mean a death sentence. And I mean, literally, they would die. Because 70 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:13,760 they're, they're very short time tables for their release. Sometimes it's just like six 71 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:20,400 to eight months. Sometimes it'll be several years, but still they're, and I ran, they 72 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:27,440 hang you up on out for the public to see and literally execute you in those manner. So 73 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,000 it's just really brutal. 74 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:38,840 Yeah, which that brutal is a good word there. Very, very intense. Now, when you're bringing 75 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:44,120 I'm just trying to work on my own timeline here. When you were doing that, were you were 76 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,120 you married and a mom at that point? Or did that happen later? 77 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:53,720 Yeah, actually, so I was married in school, we actually got married. My husband's a civil 78 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:59,880 engineer. So he took his time going through school. So yeah, so I was already married. 79 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:05,840 I think it was about three years into to my career, four years into my career, I ended 80 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,600 up giving birth to my first child. And I really like to tell the story because motherhood 81 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:16,040 really is just a very transformative experience. At least it was for me. I kind of look at 82 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:21,160 it like entering the world of Oz was in black and white. And then I ended enter into Technicolor. 83 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:27,320 And you know, I like the first story that I have for my first daughter is just it taught 84 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:32,200 me how strong women were. And I know not all women have to take this path. But I'm kind 85 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:37,440 of one of those like, Hey, you know, go with flow type girls. I was like, if I can do it 86 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:44,160 without an epidural, I'm going to do it. Well, I had a 29 hour labor without any medication. 87 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:48,840 And I pushed for 15 minutes, I burst almost every blood vessel in my face to give birth 88 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:54,360 to a child. And then I'm walking up and walking around within minutes after giving birth. And 89 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,960 for months and months after that, my husband kept going, you did that. That's amazing. 90 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:02,320 I was like, I called it the birth high. He was just like, Oh, my gosh, that's amazing. 91 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:08,440 And I know after that point, I was just like, Oh, man, kind of bought into this cultural 92 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:15,080 lie. In a way, probably not on on like a high level surface. My mom was a homemaker and 93 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:24,480 she she made it a very prideful endeavor, career endeavor to go in and and be a homemaker. 94 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:29,160 She always was very adamant that you called it homemaker. You're not I'm not a stay at 95 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:35,640 home mom. I'm not just a mom that stays home, like I have a career path that I've chosen. 96 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:43,520 And but I was very different than my mom, like personality wise, I knew that I wanted 97 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:52,000 a bit of balance of home ownership in the sense of what I create in my home, but also 98 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:58,360 work outside of the home and my own capacity in the own way and own balance to like, because 99 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:08,280 you can't have all things at once, right? So I in those early years of my oldest daughter's 100 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:14,240 life, like especially that first year, it was a very enriching experience is just beautiful. 101 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:19,920 Am I too so sweet? She was just this beautiful little girl. And I'd gotten into an awareness 102 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:25,680 of female strength that, you know, I'd always try to unwittingly compare myself to men and 103 00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:30,720 some ways because I did have this idea of wanting to go and work in a, you know, non 104 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:39,360 traditional, I guess, role and some respects. And then it just gave me such a deep abiding 105 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:44,240 awareness of, Oh my gosh, like I am incredible. I could do absolutely nothing else for the 106 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:50,000 rest of my life. And I'm just amazing. I did that, you know, and then I sustained that 107 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:56,720 body, that baby, that body that I grew. And with my own body, like that's just like blue 108 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,920 my mind. So that first year was just like really just a beautiful experience and so much so 109 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:07,320 that we decided we wanted another little one about the time she was a year old. And that's 110 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:13,440 when things in our stories sort of try to shift. Where I experienced something that's 111 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:19,000 called secondary infertility, didn't realize that was a thing. But I think it's like 20 112 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:24,640 or 30% of infertility are second or multiple childs. Usually you think it's like the first 113 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:31,160 kid you struggle. But a lot of stuff was going on with my body, I didn't understand in the 114 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:37,800 hormone space that was gave me this physical ailment that would prevent me from conceiving 115 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:45,840 a child. And so I went on this really intense journey of healing, you know, because it actually 116 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:54,640 put me in an immense like mind bending pain. It was, I can't describe how painful it was. 117 00:11:54,640 --> 00:12:00,440 It was 24 seven for three years straight. I was just like, I kind of liken it to being 118 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:06,200 doused with kerosene. And you just feel like you're on fire all the time. I've never been 119 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:11,600 set on fire, but that's what I feel like. And so I sort of went on this like journey 120 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:18,740 of discovery of how to get this, this ailment gone, the inflammation of my body that was 121 00:12:18,740 --> 00:12:27,440 just constantly racking my, my immune system. So after two years, sort of transition into 122 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,960 a new season, which is a season of miscarriages, unfortunately, the inflammation was going 123 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:37,000 away, which meant I would get pregnant. But then it was hormone responsive. So I get 124 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:43,840 pregnant and it would respond and I would lose the baby. So I for about a year, I started 125 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:49,960 to go through an even more dark season than I ever imagined before, you know, here you 126 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:58,440 want a baby. And then my oldest, she just children are just so spiritually aware on 127 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:03,600 a level, you know, here she is like two, three years old. And I'd be like laid out on the 128 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:09,840 floor just sobbing because I've, I'm, I've losing another child and my, my, my three 129 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:15,560 or four year olds like laying her hands on me praying for healing and praying that, you 130 00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:20,080 know, maybe God will let this baby stay with us instead of going with Jesus. And I'm just 131 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:28,080 just, just, just absolute, just a beautiful. But it was a struggle too, because I felt 132 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:33,440 this is another season. It was hard to describe. It was almost like I was losing two children 133 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:39,800 because when I lose a baby, I was put into this really dark space that I was losing my, 134 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:45,080 my baby in front of me because I was losing the experiences with her where I was supposed 135 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:51,760 to feel joy at all of her firsts. And I wasn't feeling any joy because I was just so wracked 136 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:58,840 with grief. And of course my body is just tired and pain all the time. So I got a lot 137 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,760 of people tell me all the time that like, well, you're great, you should be grateful. 138 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:07,920 You have a child. And I said, I don't think you understand what the implications of what's 139 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:14,800 happening, you know, because you can't, and I don't know if you have children, but do 140 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:15,800 you have children? 141 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,880 I've got, I've got two little ones and I got one on the way. So congratulations. 142 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:20,880 Thank you. 143 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:26,840 Wow, that's awesome. Yeah. So, you know, probably observed with your wife or even for yourself, 144 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:32,400 this, when you want a kid, you just really want a kid. It's like this, like switch that 145 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:39,320 goes off. It's wild. So yeah, it was just this deep dark cycle of about three years 146 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:44,920 when the ailment was starting to, I'm finally finding the solutions. That was great that 147 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:52,240 I get pregnant with my youngest daughter and she is a fighter. So we named her Cossette 148 00:14:52,240 --> 00:15:00,200 and it has like kind of two uses meanings, victorious little one. I really enjoy meanings. 149 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:05,000 I usually base it off of family names, you know, but this one really stuck and I was 150 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,920 like, you know, she's alive. She's here. She's, she's growing when none of her siblings were 151 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:18,440 able to, you know, she's victorious little one. And so the pregnancy was okay. Like 152 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:25,280 wasn't terrible, but wasn't great. And that's really when we go into a new season too, that 153 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,120 I don't know if I've like skipped a head up your schedule, but you know, we've arrived 154 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:38,240 at my second daughter's birth. Yeah, that's fine. Okay, good. Yeah. So this was COVID, 155 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:45,400 like she's a COVID baby. She was born in April 2020. Oh, so she's really a COVID baby. She's 156 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:52,320 like at the height of it. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so it was like, I don't know if anybody remembers 157 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:59,800 this or if you do, if you experienced it, but you know, it was like dry, literal, like 158 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:07,960 parking garage, gynecological exams, like I, you had to go into parking garages to get 159 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:16,040 your prenatal testing. Most everything was telehealth. It was awful. So unfortunately, 160 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:26,200 I went into labor before, like, they didn't give me my 36 week, like, test and shots to 161 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:31,640 make sure I didn't have an infection. They usually do them because of COVID, they pushed 162 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:38,280 everything back while I went into labor three weeks early. So 27 hour labor, they didn't 163 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:45,880 touch me but a few times. And as it turns out, I had what they call prolapse cord. And 164 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:52,920 it's when the cord comes out in advance of the baby, that was discovered at 27 hours. 165 00:16:52,920 --> 00:17:01,880 And it was, you know, you're just laboring and again, I don't have an epidural. I did 166 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:07,240 it first time. I didn't do this time either. And you're just laboring and everything's 167 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:14,320 fine. Actually, my husband had started to take a nap. And because it had been a while, 168 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:19,080 you know, I don't fault him for that. And the doctor finally comes in, it's like, hey, 169 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:23,240 you know, it's been a really long time, but it's looking like the baby might be in a little 170 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:31,760 distress. I need to check you. So she checks me. And yeah, I prolapse cord. She yells out, 171 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:37,640 like 20 medical professionals are in that room scrambling to get me covered up and rushed 172 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:45,800 to the OR. I have no idea what a prolapse cord is. Like, they're very rare. And my husband's 173 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:50,720 like, stands up all of a sudden, like, what's happening? Nobody comes to tell him what's 174 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:56,920 happening really rushed to the OR. I don't have an epidural. So I feel everything that 175 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:02,120 they're doing shoving the catheter in the late, the doctor's hand has to be still remain 176 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:07,240 up there to keep the cord, the baby off the cord as long as possible. And I start to like 177 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:13,000 couple tears roll down and the sweet anesthesiologist like says, you know, I know you're feeling 178 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:18,160 a little overwhelmed right now, but we do this all the time, you're going to be okay. 179 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,040 And I was like, but I'm not falling asleep. What are you going to do? Are you just going 180 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,880 to rip her out of me while I'm awake? And she said, no, we're going to put you under 181 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:32,240 general. And at that point I black out. And when I wake up, I have no baby for hours. 182 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:40,000 I have no baby. And I'm delusional. I have no idea where I'm at, you know, because when 183 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,560 you don't have an epidural, they do put you under general. And when you come out, you 184 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:50,320 just feel everything because there's no epidural to sort of taper off and then pain medication 185 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:56,960 to come into play. So they put me on a narcotic, but it never did anything. It just made me 186 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:03,400 high as a kite. Honestly, I was just like just out of my mind delusional. And finally, 187 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:10,680 they bring her to me. And almost immediately we know something is wrong. She's acting 188 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:15,880 erratic. She can't latch. She's looks like she's having seizures, all this stuff. But 189 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:20,960 it takes four days for them to formalize that there's something wrong. And they send us 190 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:29,160 off into NICU again, height of height of COVID. So no family could be there. My husband couldn't 191 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:37,080 be there. Here I had just had major surgery without any pain medication. And then when 192 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:42,320 you're an upper NICU, the intensive NICU, they just give you a chair in the corner. 193 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:47,360 And I couldn't put my feet up. There was no place. And at the end of the day, they get 194 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:53,320 you in a raffle and you get to maybe stay in a separate room. And you go in from like 195 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:58,320 six o'clock and you have to be out in the morning. And then right back to your chair 196 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:05,480 again. And at night, I would, I mean, just a massive box with a really thin mattress 197 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:10,080 on it. That's what I slept on. And I would just, my body would go into shock. I would 198 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:16,680 just shake uncontrollably from the pain. And up the next morning, right back out, because 199 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:23,560 I had like memorized their shift changes. So I could follow what was happening. Well, 200 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:29,720 they never told me this actually. I three weeks later, during a shift change, I heard 201 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,640 one of the nurses during a shift change say that she had been resuscitated at birth. They 202 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:42,320 never formally told me that she was ever resuscitated. And confirming was the insurance that said 203 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:58,640 resuscitation of infant $746. It was a line item. Yes. So we just, it was, it was hard 204 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,860 because, you know, again, you're doing this by yourself and you have a near five year 205 00:21:02,860 --> 00:21:13,000 old at this point. They isolate you. They, they, yeah, it was indescribable experience, 206 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:18,440 but I had this one really impactful conversation I had with my husband over the phone late 207 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,800 night. He was just didn't want to get off the phone with me. Got to understand my husband's 208 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:29,120 very introvert and quiet talking is not really his jam. So I'm like, I just want to get off 209 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:37,440 the phone. I want to go to sleep, you know? And he goes, Nikki, this is, this is it. Like 210 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:44,360 our daughter, she is our mission. She's, she's giving life and breath to, to the identity 211 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:49,040 that we have in Christ, the identity we have as a, as image bearer. It doesn't matter her 212 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:56,720 outcome. She is important. She is precious. She is ours. And she's who we prayed for to 213 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:04,600 God gave us. And it would be six months. Once you receive the formal diagnosis of cerebral 214 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:12,800 pausing, which is essentially brain damage. And the way every case of cerebral palsy is 215 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:19,920 different because the damage done to the brain is a unique brain done, you know, the damage 216 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:27,840 is done to a unique brain. So everyone is just like our, our idea is CPU is always there. 217 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,440 They're bedridden. They're in a wheelchair the rest of their life. They can't speak. 218 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:39,760 They can't do a lot of stuff. And early on, you don't know, like they just have guesses, 219 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:49,800 educated guesses. And she had to get a gastric tube because she was unable to feed. She is 220 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:58,120 three and a half. She is free of that gastric tube. She can now eat. She cannot speak. She 221 00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:09,720 cannot walk. But she will, she will one day. It's a matter of when not if, you know. And 222 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:15,320 so the prognosis that she had at the early outset, never eat, never walk, never talk, 223 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:20,440 you know, well, she will be a victorious little one. She's just tipping away at every little 224 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:26,040 one. And so I just, I remember a NICU standing over her and, oh my God, now I know why you 225 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:33,760 gave her that name. And I insisted that everyone call her by her full name. Because her, her, 226 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:38,480 her nickname is Eti, but we call her Cassette because I wanted even a doctor that didn't 227 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:43,080 believe in God that every time that they uttered her name, they were speaking a blessing of 228 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:52,600 victory over her at every single time. And so through prayer, she will have victory. It's 229 00:23:52,600 --> 00:24:00,480 not a matter of if it's when. So that's, that's where things sort of have given a deeper meaning 230 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,480 to, like to our, to my mission. So yeah. 231 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:16,040 Wow. Yeah. So many winding roads, ups and downs throughout the, the precursor, the buildup 232 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:24,720 of trying to get pregnant, to having pregnancy and then obviously the birth itself. And then 233 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:30,160 afterwards, already proving so many people wrong. 234 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:31,160 Amen. 235 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:42,760 And what an incredible story of, of perseverance, of strength. That kind of goes back to what 236 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:50,240 you're talking about before of, I see this a lot with women that, yeah, well, I'm, I'm 237 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:59,200 just, I'm just a mom or just this, just that. And I look at my wife, my, like I said, my 238 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:07,520 wife's pregnant right now and her pregnant sees she is a blessed soul. She is sick like 239 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:14,720 the entire nine months of all three and all three. The babies are due in the summer. So 240 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:21,800 she's throwing up well at the hundred degrees, like, but then that baby's born and she feels 241 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:29,600 great. But what an incredible thing. There's, there's nothing more like, for those of you 242 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:35,920 that are listening, if you're, if you're not a parent and like you've not experienced that 243 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,280 there literally is nothing like it in the world. 244 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:47,440 It's incredible, like absolutely incredible that that is your child that came out of and 245 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:53,720 your case out of your body. If your husband out of your, your wife's body, it's amazing. 246 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,600 And for our culture to really downgrade that. 247 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:57,600 Oh, I know. 248 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:58,920 It's, it's awful. 249 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:05,800 It's a, it's a great disservice to, to women, honestly. And I think it's, it started off 250 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:13,720 really in a quiet manner, right? We're, we're wanting the suffragettes didn't downgrade their 251 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:19,920 womanhood in order to obtain what they should be, which is equal, equal footing within society 252 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:26,320 to be able to vote, right? And then, you know, we've moved so much that this idea of equal 253 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:35,600 footing within equal access and equal outcome that it slowly just eats away at the reality, 254 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:41,160 the truth that, you know, we're seeking out this male, male view of the bomb baskets, 255 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,720 the bombastic strength, which is beautiful. Like don't get me wrong. 256 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:52,560 Men are just the way that God makes you to be strong and powerful and to protect is something 257 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:58,840 of its own, its own brand of, of beauty that should be celebrated. 258 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:05,440 But in an attempt to, to get these little gains, what they saw as gains, they whittled 259 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:14,720 away the reality of women's strength. And it is a great disservice, you know, again, 260 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:19,280 I didn't, I don't think I've fully bought into it, but really at the surface on the, 261 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,200 under the surface, I feel like I did until I had kids and I'm like, Oh my gosh, this 262 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:31,720 is just amazing, you know, and everybody has different experiences, I understand. 263 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:37,240 But it just, when you really think about the fact you grew a person, and when you equate, 264 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,760 like, especially when you're saying your wife is sick, but they equate like the energy 265 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:48,120 outputs required at different stages and gestational development, it's insane that women are still 266 00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:52,640 upright, still walking around, still taking other children, taking care of other children 267 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:58,840 and still doing jobs. Like, I mean, I know my husband when he has a cold. 268 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:05,960 He's definitely not a, and that's, that's actually, I mean, we make fun of it so much 269 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:13,080 in society, but it's true that's actually female strength exemplified. Like, we, we 270 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:19,000 can endure intense amount of internal pain and still continue to push because we can 271 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:24,360 deliver human life through our body. And I know what most women are like, I can't do 272 00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:29,200 that. No, you can, you just don't want to, because you haven't had pedural, it's a wonderful 273 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:34,360 option, don't get me wrong. But you can actually do that, you know, that's what you're designed 274 00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:41,200 to do. And so when we have these moments of resilience that are transcend what men are 275 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:48,200 like, how do you do that? It's because of that, you know, and I think we've sort of 276 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:53,920 forgotten, you know, because we don't really think of it in that way, that this is us being 277 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,920 strong and powerful. 278 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:05,640 Absolutely. And I like the way you put that of men. And obviously we're talking in generalities 279 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:12,760 of everybody, but yeah, that strength, I'll speak for on my behalf. I've always been 280 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:18,280 a pretty happy, go lucky, like I've never been in a fist fight. So like that side of 281 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:23,840 the physical strength of having to bash heads in or whatever, and that never been my big 282 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:30,760 thing. But I don't remember this specific moment. But I remember when I was dating my 283 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:37,320 wife, and I don't think we were even engaged at that point that I'm thinking of, but these 284 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:43,120 thoughts of like, Hey, if somebody looks at her the wrong way, I'm going to do something. 285 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:50,840 It was just this inner thing, this inner protection that I hadn't felt the like I had protection 286 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:58,600 for like my sister and for my nieces, but not this intensity. And that's that, like 287 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:04,840 you said, that's beautiful on its own right. But yeah, nobody nobody that knows my wife 288 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:11,080 and has known the difficulties of pregnancies that she's gone through. And she is she stays 289 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:18,360 at home with with our kiddos and raises them. Nobody can say that she's weak because she's 290 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:26,320 sick like no, she's incredibly strong. All this while raising a baby and baby, which 291 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:33,520 is for all all we know for now has been super duper healthy. And we're really grateful for 292 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:39,280 that. But yeah, that is strength is the right word. Just because she can't lift as much 293 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:44,320 weight as I can does not mean that she's not strong. She absolutely is a limitation in 294 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:50,760 turn on the term. It you know how like you look up a word and a dictionary has multi 295 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:59,240 levels of a definition. I think we very much limited the word of strength to something 296 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:06,920 that is outward in bomb basket, bombastic. And that's a cheapening of that word that's 297 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:14,000 there's more to that. And and again to like physical strength, but physical tied to an 298 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:19,120 emotional strength that comes with that, you know, I, I look back at my the first birth 299 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:25,920 I have, you know, of course, that was an amazing physical accomplishment to look at my second. 300 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:31,680 And it was an amazing physical accomplishment to and its own right. But the emotional toll 301 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:37,640 and strength that I had to take. So, you know, sort of my NICU experience was, I believe 302 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:45,320 that that the outward presentation is a reflection on the inward mentality. So I would get up 303 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,880 every morning about six o'clock and I would curl my hair and put my makeup on and I'd 304 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:55,000 put my clothes on and I would open the curtains and I was open for business the way I looked 305 00:31:55,000 --> 00:32:02,600 at it. It was a really difficult time in which I had to push through emotionally and on a 306 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:08,320 level I didn't know I was capable of. And I had to keep doing that and I still have 307 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:13,880 to do that today because the reality is my my daughter's not out of the woods, right? 308 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:21,240 You know, she still has many challenges that she has to endure. But this is built endurance 309 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:27,760 and me and to a level that I just I could not comprehend at the outset, you know, and 310 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:34,680 parenthood in general is that right? It's every every passing day, week, year is a different 311 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:40,440 set of challenges that we have to figure out the solutions to that build an endurance and 312 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:48,120 awareness of our internal reality that our own struggles, right? We're not perfect. Now 313 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,520 my daughter's eight and I'm like, okay, look, you're where mommy and daddy are not perfect. 314 00:32:52,520 --> 00:33:00,400 She's like, oh, I'm aware. So, but you know, just surmount those those ever increasing 315 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,480 challenges that, you know, when they're little, they have little problems and they get big, 316 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:10,200 they have big problems, right? So that that God gives you that a buildup of endurance 317 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:16,480 through the years of as those challenges change. And as a mother, I think that that's made 318 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:23,720 me stronger in my career as well. Because again, it gave that flesh and blood to when 319 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:29,840 I was working with the with young child brides in Uganda, I didn't have the honor of holding 320 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:36,800 her and telling her how important and precious and wonderful she that she was. I I and I 321 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:43,120 knew that behind her, there will be hundreds of other little ones that will be put in the 322 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:48,280 same circumstance than that she was that I could buy back her diary and put her back 323 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:56,280 into school. But there are the culture around her would perpetuate an idea that she wasn't 324 00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:02,680 as valuable as a man. And that wasn't okay with me. So probably getting back to the career 325 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:10,920 part of how hard it was is that I just couldn't I couldn't settle for that anymore. That that 326 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:18,000 culture could perpetuate this reality. That as my daughters grow, in American cultures, 327 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:25,440 no different than Ugandan, or Iranian, or French, or Armenian, they're all the same. 328 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:30,280 They're all the same. And I know it looks different. Every culture perpetuates this 329 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:36,800 idea that dignity can be measured. Someone can be devalued for another criteria or another, 330 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:43,520 right? Culture perpetuates that idea. And it and it's has different products. American 331 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:51,360 culture, abortion is one of those realities. Human trafficking, drug culture, foreign culture, 332 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:59,840 euthanasia. We have about what I believe around seven or eight core core industries that 333 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:08,280 commoditize the human person in American culture. And we need to change the mindset around human 334 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:13,440 value, you know, we need to create a mindset within our culture that says, Hey, you are 335 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,640 the image bearer of the heavenly father. Heck, heck, you don't even have to believe in God. 336 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:27,440 Do you do you see that this is a person with a genetic genetic DNA? And that alone is access 337 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:35,160 to full equal rights of personhood. Because if you don't look at it as the genetic, you 338 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:42,520 know, genesis of the genetic human person, then you are making a philosophical allow 339 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:49,440 meant for the measurement of human value, because it says, Hey, culture has the right 340 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:56,160 to measure human value at any point in development, even if it is at six weeks, even if it is 341 00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:02,280 at 20 weeks, even if it is at 40 weeks. And I like to try to try to bring this into because 342 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:09,360 it's more of the reality we were facing too is that that several state governments were 343 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:17,480 presenting death by medical neglect up to 28 days after birth around the same time that 344 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:23,160 my daughter was born. That means that on the table, they could have told me your daughter 345 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:30,160 will have brain damage, do not resuscitate, because her value, her quality of life will 346 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:35,360 she'll be fed by a D tube, she'll be whatever they're whatever they say, and she's better 347 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:45,040 off dead. And the people that said it wasn't a reality that we could enter from the point 348 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:50,160 of the discussion around human value within the womb could ever exit out of the womb 349 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:56,800 and be put into question, you need to look at California, Maryland and Colorado. And 350 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:01,880 some conversations I've had with parents one out of Colorado in particular, their son had 351 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:07,880 a very similar birth to cassette. His was just a longer duration without oxygen, so 352 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:15,440 a higher ischemic damage, brain damage. And they approached them and said, Hey, why don't 353 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,880 we just put them into extended care? Because when he's 30 something years old, you're still 354 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:25,920 going to be wiping his rear end. So we'll just withhold all medical intervention and 355 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:33,000 just let him die. And he's just fine. So this is the reality that we're in, because we put 356 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:39,080 into question any point in the gestational development, the value of human life was 357 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:45,960 put into question, it will exit the womb. It already has exited the womb. And would 358 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:53,040 you have people that without question say yes, it is the right for a mom to just let 359 00:37:53,040 --> 00:38:00,440 her child die on the table. And that was a reality I could not handle either. Because 360 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:07,320 that's that's the idea that my daughter is not as valuable as her sister. And that's 361 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:14,520 not a world that I'm okay with. And we need a serious rework of our mindset around human 362 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:20,440 value within culture. And a big thing, you know, I've worked with the abortion discussion 363 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:26,240 for well over a decade, because that was a lot of the topics I took on, seen every imaginable 364 00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:32,600 angle from pro life to pro choice. There's really nothing new under the sun unless it's 365 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:41,300 just borderline psychotic, you know, we're nonsensical. And I always feel like the conversation 366 00:38:41,300 --> 00:38:47,800 starts about two to three steps too too far down the conversation line. We need to bring 367 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:56,640 it down foundationally. And it's very hard to refute the idea of human life holding intrinsic 368 00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,440 value when you place it at that level. Because you know, if you come in on that discussion 369 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:05,520 where you're like, I mean, talk about any talking point in the abortion discussion, 370 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:11,600 it's like, it's all the same. It really is where you just kind of put intention, the 371 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:19,040 level of value of human possesses, like the mom has a greater human, a greater moral significance 372 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:24,320 than that of the fetus because of the fetus's point and development makes them more dependent 373 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:29,960 upon. So if that's the philosophical argument you're looking at, you're on a sliding scale 374 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:38,440 of value for your whole life, you know, because when you exit the womb, you leave that child 375 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:44,440 there, they're still in a total state of dependence. They need you for a life, for breath, you 376 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:51,280 know. And honestly, I mean, you can argue all the way up until through adolescence, 377 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:57,080 just a sliding scale of moral value. And then once you hit the certain point, then if you 378 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:06,000 get into an accident and you sustain any type of physical or mental impairment, then your 379 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:13,560 measurable value decreases because it's off this philosophical concept that it's physical 380 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:19,960 dependence that is where you derive or lose your moral worth, you know. So again, it's 381 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:26,480 just this bringing it down another step and really seeing where those conversations lie. 382 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:31,680 It's really hard to be like, hey, you know, culture should have a right to measure human 383 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:36,840 value. I'm like, well, what about like the Holocaust? Kind of what they did? Yeah, you 384 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,880 know, you don't support that. Okay, well, let's have that conversation around the philosophy 385 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:48,160 of what, how they got there. Because, you know, kind of jumping into that racial idea, 386 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:56,200 we don't really talk about World War Two in particular had multiple racial groups at play 387 00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:03,520 at that time, right? And so we think of it like the Nazis are looking at Jews as a racial 388 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:11,160 inferiority, but they always forget to talk about the Japanese and the death of 20 million 389 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:19,840 Chinese that were killed because of their racial inferiority. And we sort of, they've 390 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:28,200 divided and, you know, put us in these different camps and forgetting the narrative that it's 391 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:32,960 an impact on, it's a reality of the human condition to try to measure, right? We like 392 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:37,840 to believe that we're better than someone else or we're stronger because we feel weak. 393 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:42,280 And, you know, that's what Hitler played a part in, you know, they felt weak from World 394 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,960 War One and they, he made them feel strong. He made them feel powerful. And when you feel 395 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:54,480 powerful, you feel powerless and you are made to feel powerful, you will always degrade 396 00:41:54,480 --> 00:42:00,920 someone else's value in that process to make yourself feel important. And if you make that 397 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:06,720 allowance within culture at any level in development, you get this point in which they can say to 398 00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:12,880 my daughter, you're not worth living, your value is not worth it because you're going 399 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:14,520 to have disabilities. 400 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:23,240 You know, I think what you're saying there, we're seeing similar discussions and you mentioned 401 00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:32,280 this briefly on the opposite end, particularly into Canada of euthanasia of when's the right 402 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:41,160 time to end life. And look, I'm pretty staunchly against the whole practice. So just doing this 403 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:49,280 for kind of a devil's advocate. I think the intention is behind, oh, grandma's been suffering, 404 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:53,640 she's going to die next month anyway. So why not do the merciful thing and just let her 405 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,160 go down easy. Like that's what's, but she's not a dog. 406 00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:58,160 Exactly. 407 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:09,240 So I like this. Okay, so say grandma did die, right? You're driving to the funeral and you're 408 00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:15,320 greeted by the groundskeeper and says we're not going to bury your grandmother. Instead, 409 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:19,640 we're going to toss her out in the field. And that's going to serve as her final resting 410 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:29,520 place. Why is it that that idea of not treating human remains with the dignity that's deserved 411 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:33,600 when the soul is not there anymore, even if you don't believe in a soul, that person doesn't 412 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:39,640 exist has no breath, no sentience, the idea that you don't treat that with respect is 413 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:46,960 offensive, deeply disturbing. It's because it doesn't matter that image and of itself 414 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:54,840 has value and you cannot just throw it away, cannot dispense of it as if it's trash, as 415 00:43:54,840 --> 00:44:00,840 if it's just a carcass of a deer, even that even deer have value and that's, you know, 416 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:05,120 all things actually have value if you're really going to talk about it. But human value is 417 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:12,080 this what it is and you either value it wholly or you allow it to be valued not wholly and 418 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:19,160 you allow and it basically says this, if it isn't to be put into a segmented, weakened, 419 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:25,240 scalable reality, it means that that truth existed always. It means that human value 420 00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:30,560 has always been measurable. It's measurable today. It's measurable in the future. It's 421 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:37,800 measurable way back when that means that slavery, that means that rate, that means that all 422 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:44,880 of that sort of concept is as long as it benefits society and the whole, which slavery, it does 423 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:51,720 have a benefit, a whole holy benefit. And again, one of the abortion debates off arguments 424 00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:58,840 is that abortion benefits society wholly because it actually reduces demand for welfare state 425 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:04,120 and all these, you know, our prison systems, our school systems, there's a net benefit 426 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:10,360 to society by allowing abortion, that's population control. And so if you allow that concept, 427 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,920 you're essentially basically saying if it's okay today, it was okay yesterday and then 428 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:18,680 you were okay with every form of dignity measurement that's ever existed as long as that wholly 429 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:26,000 benefits society. If there's a net benefit, it's okay. And actually there's a lot of, 430 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:30,960 I mean, I've written on this a lot over the years and especially since my daughter has 431 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:40,480 been born, because there is a lot of ethical, and I say ethical very loosely, around net 432 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:47,760 benefited value measurements. So it's this idea that if society can, if the death of 433 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:54,560 a disabled child, this is actually from a Princeton ethics professor, again, very loosely, 434 00:45:54,560 --> 00:46:01,560 that the death of a disabled infant means that there could be a birth of a non disabled 435 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:09,200 infant. And that child's life is a greater chance of happiness than it's, it's good that 436 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:17,600 the disabled child dies. Because essentially the round this concept of happiness being derived 437 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:25,680 from your societal output, how you contribute to society as a whole is that's how you measure 438 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:35,160 moral significance, that's how you measure net happiness, which I cannot tell you what 439 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:43,600 it would feel like if my daughter did not have breath in her body. She is, am I my oldest, 440 00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:48,800 I try to say this in a sense like my oldest is so beautiful and sweet, and I don't lessen 441 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:54,800 her contribution to the world. But my youngest, I think it's just because of who she is and 442 00:46:54,800 --> 00:47:02,840 what she's overcome. There is just this shining light of joy. And children that I've met that 443 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:08,960 are in the same situation as her, they're so deeply happy, they bring so much joy. And 444 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:14,640 let me tell you, I'm not lessening the impact of the struggle too, because, you know, I 445 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,880 mean, my daughter stopped breathing four or five, six times a day for first two years 446 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:23,960 of her life. You know, your child tokes on a chicken nugget once and it's like you're 447 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:30,440 so it was terrifying, like, that was first two years of my life of her life was just, 448 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:36,480 it was a struggle. But I, I couldn't imagine not finding to put that breath back in her 449 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:45,560 lungs every single time to ensure that she is still here. I don't, if I could go back 450 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:49,120 and change the circumstance of her birth, absolutely. So she didn't have to struggle 451 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:56,280 through that. But let me tell you, my daughter is not disabled. My daughter is actually, 452 00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:01,840 I actually look at her compared to my oldest daughter in the sense of struggle breeds character 453 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:09,520 development. Her first breath on the side of the womb is, is a testament to that journey 454 00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:15,240 of character development that my oldest I have to falsify. I know that seems kind of 455 00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:24,000 weird. I have to create instances of struggle where she can have development in her character, 456 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:32,440 where my youngest, I don't have to do that because just by every breath she's striving 457 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:37,360 pushing through in a way that my oldest is, is not going to ever really fully understand. 458 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:43,240 And me too, like, I mean, I'm fighting with her, but I just look on her and such awe, 459 00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:49,960 like, that is human strength. That is human resilience. She is powerful. She is important. 460 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:56,680 She has brought so much happiness with her disability or without, you know, I'm just 461 00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:02,280 this concept of measurable value is a sick thing. It really is. 462 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:08,240 Well, it, you know, you were just talking about the World War II. And I've been having 463 00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:13,680 kind of this internal debate in my head about just just about eugenics in general. And that 464 00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:20,120 was a huge 20th century, early 20th century theme. And then obviously, yeah, World War 465 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:27,120 II, like, Oh, that's, that's bad. But my, my internal struggle here is like, did it 466 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:34,000 ever go away? Or was it just kind of not talked about as much? Because it's pretty apparent 467 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:40,760 that nobody's coming out and just saying, Yeah, I'm for eugenics. But saying to not 468 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:45,480 treat your daughter, how is that not eugenics? That's, that's awful. 469 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:52,720 It still exists very much. Identity politics is very much rooted in a eugenics argument. 470 00:49:52,720 --> 00:50:03,000 It is this idea that value is buildable based upon a criteria set up by culture at the time, 471 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:08,840 right? So our culture is setting those value criteria that looks different than it did 472 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:14,120 in Nazi Germany, right? But it's still the same basic principle. And like I'm saying 473 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:21,960 that, you know, in Uganda, the principle is the same as in America, we're doing the same 474 00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:27,000 thing. It's under the same idea that we can measure human value based on a criteria that 475 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:32,120 set out by that culture in this time now. And it's not, it wasn't okay then, it's not 476 00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:38,800 okay now, or it was okay then, and it is okay now. You're either in one camper or the other. 477 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:46,840 And that's why I like to, you know, discuss this in a way that, you know, the organization 478 00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:53,280 that I founded, we haven't really talked about that yet, was based off that need of connecting 479 00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:58,040 the dots, because we're not connecting the dots very well within these discussions, 480 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:04,520 you know, again, you know, from, and that was a, that was a struggle. The non connecting 481 00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,840 of dots was a struggle for me when I was addressing the issue of abortion and communication 482 00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:15,520 side of things is because I believe that it was a bit short, short sided. And it, and 483 00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,960 it was, you're addressing too much of the political noise, like you just, you're never 484 00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:26,880 gonna, you're never, you're always gonna lose at that level. It was just very frustrating. 485 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:33,240 And, and especially in the abortion areas, it's such a politically like, loud area, we 486 00:51:33,240 --> 00:51:37,320 can all agree on that. But if you walked over just to the side, and let's talk about human 487 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:44,080 trafficking, some very, very big discussion, very, very big shift in mentality around 488 00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:51,080 that discussion, no matter who you're speaking to, whether they're left, right, center, wherever, 489 00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:56,360 they're like, yeah, trafficking is bad, like we should not do that. Except for the problem 490 00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:03,200 is trafficking is not only surviving its thriving, call it like the McDonald's, everybody's 491 00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:11,480 swears are not a part of it. But they're obviously growing, right. And the problem is, is that 492 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:17,720 human trafficking in and of itself doesn't exist because of trafficking. There's a demand 493 00:52:17,720 --> 00:52:25,440 that drives into trafficking. So porn culture, that is a big part. So the very first person 494 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:32,200 that is dehumanized in the process is a man. A man is taught that he is nothing but a set 495 00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:43,600 of chemical impulses that need not be controlled. And an outlet is through this is pornography. 496 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:51,880 And he starts to consume and his mentality shifts from the harmless distance to the physical 497 00:52:51,880 --> 00:53:00,240 consumer, or which offsets the supply and demand for the willful participants in pornography, 498 00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:05,960 the porn industry or sex industry, to the non willful participants in the sex industry. 499 00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:11,640 And so if they don't have enough willful, they'll get many un willful participants. 500 00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:16,360 Those un willful participants are getting they get them addicted to drugs, and they get 501 00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:21,160 them locked into a legal system that prevents them from thriving and they guilt them into 502 00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:26,160 staying and they're addicted to drugs anyway, so that keeps them there. So drug culture 503 00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:31,600 feeds into it. Then when they're impregnated, they're sent to the abortion industry in order 504 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:39,680 to get those sort of symptoms of the consequences of the industry to have that problem removed. 505 00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:45,400 And then, you know, it's just there, it's more connective than we give it credit for. 506 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:54,840 And because of that idea of the complexity of these interwoven players to approach it 507 00:53:54,840 --> 00:54:00,280 from that foundational precept to really, we cannot have any evidence of commoditizing 508 00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:05,880 of human value. Like, because if you just get rid of human trafficking, or try to address 509 00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:12,040 just trafficking itself, you're always going to have a demand feeding into it. Things that 510 00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:18,040 are perpetuating it. So, again, I dealt with all these really hard issues. So I just felt 511 00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:23,160 God was convicted me like, we have to do this differently. Can't do this the same way. Because 512 00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:27,280 it's like we have a dam that is bursting and we're just sticking our fingers in it, just 513 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:33,080 praying to God that it doesn't just and it's about to blow. And so instead of just sticking 514 00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:42,400 our holes and waiting for the impending disaster, we have to find the source of the problem 515 00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:49,880 itself. And it's really rooted in this idea of human value, changing and shifting our 516 00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,280 mindset around it culturally. 517 00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:58,440 So for people that are listening, and I'm going to speak for the audience, I think most 518 00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:05,880 are probably going to track with you that, yes, just go into the ballot box voting for 519 00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:13,440 the right person. While it's not inherently a bad thing, it's not we're not getting to 520 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:18,760 that deeper level or just having a quick little debate over abortion or human trafficking 521 00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:22,920 or whatever it may be. Again, it's not really sufficient. It's not getting to the depths 522 00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:29,040 there. So those that are listening that like, okay, yeah, we want to get to the deeper level, 523 00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:34,440 but how do I do it? What steps do I take to kind of start changing some minds and being 524 00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:38,560 able to have cultural change towards towards life in that way? But why do you think that 525 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:39,560 they can do? 526 00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:45,640 Yeah. So I want to first sort of address like how we're approaching holistically as an 527 00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,760 organization and then see how they sort of fit into that. Because one of the big lessons 528 00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:54,560 I always learned in and communications and which we call digital advocacy or advocacy 529 00:55:54,560 --> 00:56:01,960 in general is that not everybody can do all things, right? The point of entry is sometimes 530 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:06,240 it's you can sign a petition, sometimes it's can share information, sometimes it's you 531 00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:10,200 can donate, sometimes it's you can volunteer, you know, like everybody has their role to 532 00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:20,280 play in that in the battle at hand. And so some coming out this from organization, we 533 00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:25,520 wanted to be holistic about our approach. So we wanted to have kind of a three prong 534 00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:31,480 area of impact. So we want to educate to change grassroots mindset around human value through 535 00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:35,840 the telling of stories and really like, like my daughter's story or many others that have 536 00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:41,720 experienced this measurement of their their value through culture. And to really start 537 00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:45,680 to think outside like, Oh, my gosh, actually, we are doing that. Sometimes it's just about 538 00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:52,040 like that idea. Okay, the question, because the question, the questioning is where we 539 00:56:52,040 --> 00:57:00,440 is where we begin to change our concepts about a value, right? Because I think we're preaching 540 00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:06,640 too much forward and saying, Hey, you must believe this. Well, and they're like, why? 541 00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:13,520 And so if you start to think holistically about this idea of human value and educate, 542 00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:18,520 we can start to see that law and this is a longer term goal. Education is a long term. 543 00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:23,640 You don't just see that overnight. But also not only does culture impact policy, policy 544 00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:29,440 impacts culture, right? So we do have to look at policy. And so, you know, we're compiling 545 00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:33,840 experts that can help with educating. And but we're also going into the halls of government 546 00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:39,560 to try to be a stop gap for laws like the one I mentioned in Colorado, that are allowing 547 00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:45,600 for the death of infants up to 28 days after birth, like, you got to stop that stuff before 548 00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:51,920 it goes through. Right. And then also additionally, organizations, one of the biggest critiques, 549 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:57,760 especially in the abortion arena, is that you don't care enough about the person beyond 550 00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:02,880 their birth, which is actually one of the biggest lies there is, because it's not true, 551 00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:07,880 because there's thousands upon thousands upon thousands of nonprofits out there that are 552 00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:12,600 working on their little corner of the dignity arena, whether it's in human trafficking or 553 00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:17,000 if, you know, abortion, whatever it is. And again, like even on abortion, there's different 554 00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:21,680 aspects of like the mother and the child's care or if your child has disabilities or, 555 00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:27,120 you know, there's there's all these organizations that deeply care. But I've worked with organizations 556 00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:31,440 and they're really struggling to do their job well. Sometimes they're not connecting well 557 00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:35,840 with other organizations that can help amplify their impact. So we're trying to work with 558 00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:41,720 organizations to find the connectivity to improve how they're operating so that we can better 559 00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:48,720 serve people, transform culture while improving how we serve people. So that's what we do 560 00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:57,280 traditionally. And you as the individual is really to start thinking on that deeper level. 561 00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:01,120 And then, you know, organizationally, we want to share that content that they can have that 562 00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:07,280 different perspective. But to try to educate yourself, because again, we're coming at this 563 00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:12,160 so politically, we're allowing the political noise to like, and even from, I would even 564 00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:18,800 say from the pro pro life side, there's a lot of this noise that that's not helpful. It's 565 00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:26,200 more it drives away conversation that doesn't exactly lend yourself to to building those 566 00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:32,960 relationships with people that go, Hey, let's ask questions. Let's ask questions about the 567 00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:36,960 pro life side. Let's ask questions about the pro choice site. And you know, what do we 568 00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:42,160 think about this or that or how how is the abortion industry commoditizing? Let's, let's 569 00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:50,320 ask about that, you know, and ask hard questions. And don't just let your I wouldn't call it 570 00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:56,040 political bias, but the things that like your your most like anchor towards start putting 571 00:59:56,040 --> 01:00:00,880 question marks around it so that those question marks make you stronger in your position, they 572 01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:06,880 do not make you weaker. They just don't. And then also to be aware of the public policy 573 01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:14,520 process, because what is very, very trouble troublesome to me is that these these laws 574 01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:20,760 can sneak through, right, unnoticed by groups like like ours that would really care to do 575 01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:26,600 something about, but don't always have the ear to the ground in all parts of the nation, 576 01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:33,520 so we have a place on our website that's just a contact us forum. We use that for all things, 577 01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:38,480 you know, you're in Colorado, you see something like that, you know, reach out to an organization, 578 01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:43,480 even it's just not ours, but another policy group that's in your area and just like, Hey, 579 01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:49,880 really feed into this because we need to change culture through the conversations we have 580 01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:54,480 and the questions we're asking, but we also need to make sure that our public policy is 581 01:00:54,480 --> 01:01:03,200 just is is protecting life. And, and I always try to make this point too, that if, if somebody 582 01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:11,800 tries to say that that law is not designed to preserve human value, I ask you to look 583 01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:20,440 at our traffic laws. So why do we have traffic laws? Like order? No, really, it's the idea 584 01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:25,840 that you can't just jaywalk and walk out into traffic because you have value. And other 585 01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:31,600 people that you could potentially intercept have value to you. It's not just about order. 586 01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:37,880 All of our laws, we maintain bodily autonomy in and so much as it affects somebody else's 587 01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:44,120 bodily autonomy. So our laws should at its foundation look at not just the order they 588 01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:50,720 create within society, but the value and the impact that our choices make on other people's 589 01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:56,760 value. So really thinking like more holistically around that, and our minds head around what 590 01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:02,520 law is actually supposed to do. It's actually supposed to protect us. And so we can maintain 591 01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:07,360 proper bodily autonomy. So I'm not a fan of that argument. It's such a silly idea. Because 592 01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:14,720 they're like, what laws dictate men's bodily autonomy? I'm like, every law, like you can't 593 01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:20,800 you can't take a left turn when it's read. Okay, it's like, pretty much everything is 594 01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:27,360 supposed supposed to dictate what you can and cannot do with your body, your intellectual 595 01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:31,800 output, because if you're doing these things, they're affecting someone else in a negative 596 01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:38,840 fashion, that should be unlawful. Right. So yeah, yeah, it's pretty wild. 597 01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:45,760 I think that's all all great information. Your organization sounds like it's doing not just 598 01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:54,560 great work. Like I generally will will plug for people to, you know, be involved if they're 599 01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:59,640 supportive of pro-life type of things of going to your local like crisis pregnancy center 600 01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:04,600 and things of that nature, which are fantastic. But what I like about what you're describing 601 01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:10,280 of your organization is there's not a lot of those going around like there's a ton of 602 01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:14,080 crisis pregnancy centers, which are great. But like you're saying, there are some that 603 01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:19,680 thrive and some that don't. So why aren't they thriving and how can we help them? I think 604 01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:24,800 that's great that you're just the whole basis of your organization is kind of that deeper 605 01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:30,000 layer thinking, which is desperately needed and this movement for sure. 606 01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:35,040 Yeah. And I hate it, this idea. And again, everybody's kind of I've worked in organizations 607 01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:40,320 for a lot of times like they get their territory and you feel comfy in your territory and you 608 01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:45,600 don't want anybody stepping your territory. And I think that is a harmful thinking, because 609 01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:50,080 sometimes those territories they need to cross so that those other organizations that can 610 01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:54,120 actually build you up and they can you can build them up. There's there they have strengths 611 01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:58,400 that are your weaknesses. And sometimes you don't need to build those parts of yourself 612 01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:04,800 up. You just need to do smart partnerships. Get that interconnectivity and the camaraderie 613 01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:13,440 around the deep, deep desire for protection of life. So I always take, take key to the 614 01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:20,080 criticism. The pro choice is always going to say, you don't care. Prove them wrong. 615 01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:25,320 You care so much that you will go into the places that they are unwilling to go because 616 01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:31,840 you see that person that has hurt in the trafficking situation. You feel that see that woman that 617 01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:37,700 is being exploited by the abortion industry. You see that man that is addicted to pornography 618 01:04:37,700 --> 01:04:43,800 that is putting his family in a terrible situation, whatever, whatever it is, you care so much 619 01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:49,800 that you want to exact change. Prove them wrong. Get up, stand up, do what you need. 620 01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:52,840 And we all have our own thing that we're supposed to be doing right. You don't have to like do 621 01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:57,040 everything. Find your thing, care about that thing and the people that are affected by 622 01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:00,360 that thing is just that simple. 623 01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:01,360 Absolutely. 624 01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:11,640 I said, this has been wonderful. I could, I'm sure we could share stories all day long. 625 01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:16,760 For audience members that are listening to you that want to stay plugged into you, follow 626 01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:21,080 you on social media, learn more about your organization. How can they give me be in contact 627 01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:22,080 with you? 628 01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:29,680 Sure. Our organization is called Dignity Defense Institute and it's dignitydefense.org that 629 01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:36,080 you can find us. DignityDefense.com will bring you to a gun manufacturer. That's not us. 630 01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:42,080 Though I kind of appreciate that a little bit in the sense of why. Yeah. So dot orgs 631 01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:48,960 is very important. And we also have our own podcast. It's called Prodignity No Doubt and 632 01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:54,080 it's very oriented towards these really tough stories and tough questions of surrounding 633 01:05:54,080 --> 01:06:00,960 the different ways that American culture measures our value and the impacts and people's real 634 01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:02,640 life. 635 01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:08,440 And on our website pretty much most of the social media is mine at this point. It's at 636 01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:15,360 Nicole M. Y. Smith. You'll pretty much on any platform you'll find me. But you can look 637 01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:20,280 on our website. They're on there too. So yeah, that's how you reach us. 638 01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:26,040 Awesome. Well, I have all that included down in the show notes and again, Nicole is great 639 01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:32,880 having you all and wonderful stories, wonderful organization and certainly very, very thankful 640 01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,760 for you to be on the show and for you to share that with us today. 641 01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,480 Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. 642 01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:44,160 Absolutely. And thank you to everyone that were listening along with us today. Again, 643 01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:48,240 check out all Nicole's stuff down in the show notes and we'll see you on the next 644 01:06:48,240 --> 01:07:06,000 episode.